Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2186: The Truth About SARMS, Ways to Lower Stress, How to Adjust Workout Going Into a Cut & More

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Email [e-mail] if you want to be considered to ask your question on the show. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Lifting to failure can have MASSIVE benefits. However, you have to do it the RIGHT way. These are three tips for failure training. (2:54) The guy’s spending habits and behaviors around money. (22:58) The science behind Seed. (36:03) How Zbiotics stands above all competitors. (40:01) The evolutionary feeling behind the love for your partner after having a kid. (42:51) The difference between father/son, father/daughter dynamics. (49:30) When your wife looks the hottest. (55:32) Another update on Adam’s absence from cannabis and how Ned has helped. (1:00:47) Shout out to Beckham on Netflix. (1:02:50) #ListenerLive question #1 - How do I approach training and dieting post-menopause? (1:05:37) #ListenerLive question #2 - What advice do you have for a first time cut? Will the addition of cardio or movement substitute less food intake? (1:19:35) #ListenerLive question #3 - What are some techniques you recommend for me, so I can fully maximize my recovery by lowering stress? (1:33:55) #ListenerLive question #4 - How effective are SARMS? Any advice on breaking through a strength plateau? I want to lift heavy, but something always seems to come up when I try to push the weight. (1:45:46) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Seed for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 30% off your first month’s supply of Seed’s DS-01® Daily Synbiotic** Visit ZBiotics for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MINDPUMP23 at checkout for 15% off your first order!** Visit NED for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! October Promotion: MAPS Bands | The Skinny Guy ‘hardgainer’ Bundle 50% off! **Code OCTOBER50 at checkout** Mind Pump #2015: How To Apply Advanced Training Techniques To Build More Muscle Overtraining Is KILLING Your Gains! (How Much Is Too Much?) | Mind Pump TV Mind Pump #1142: Nine Signs You Are Overtraining Seed | Our Science Mind Pump #2092: How To Cultivate Amazing Relationships With Adam Lane Smith Watch Beckham | Netflix Official Site Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout** TRANSCEND your goals! Telehealth Provider • Physician Directed GET YOUR PERSONALIZED TREATMENT PLAN!  Hormone Replacement Therapy, Cognitive Function, Sleep & Fatigue, Athletic Performance and MORE. Their online process and medical experts make it simple to find out what’s right for you. Mind Pump Hormones Facebook Private Forum Mind Pump #1237: Why Most Group Exercise Classes Suck Visit The Cold Plunge for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump Listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for $150 off your order** NCI x Mind Pump Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Adam | Relationship Psychology (@attachmentadam) Instagram David Beckham (@davidbeckham) Instagram Ben Pollack, Ph.D. (@phdeadlift) Instagram Bradley Martyn (@bradleymartyn) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health entertainment podcast in the history of the universe. This is my pup right today's episode. We answered live caller's questions, but this was after an intro portion. 62 minutes long, that was today's intro. That's what we talked about, current events,

fitness, science, stuff, and a lot more. If you wanna skip around your favorite parts, check the show notes for timestamps, then you can do that. Also, if you wanna be on an episode like this, when email us your question at live at minepumpmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first sponsor is seed. This is the world's best probiotic hands down.

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There's also a sale on some workout programs this month Maps bands is half off and the hardgainer bundle of programs is half off Go check them out a maps fitness products.com, but you have to use the code October 50 for that discount. All right, here comes a show October 50 for that discount. All right, here comes the show. T-shirt time. And it's T-shirt time. Oh, shit.

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Lifting to failure can have massive benefits. However, you have to do it the right way. Doing it the wrong way makes it equally as negative. In other words, if you do it wrong, not only will you not get results, you'll quickly over train or fry your CNS, or at least it'll feel that way. Okay, so what are the training to failure tips? Well, from my experience, you want to cut your volume or set down to about one third or one fourth. So in other words, if you normally do three sets, do one set. If you normally do four sets, do one, or maybe two sets, probably closer to one. Here's the second piece of advice. Keep the reps a bit higher.

Low reps to failure with low volume or low sets. Not typically enough to stimulate muscle growth. It's also safer to go with lightweight. Here's the third tip. Failure means perfect form starts to break down. Not, you can't move the bar anymore. That's not failure. That's just terrible lifting.

So again, lifting the failure, incredibly beneficial, but you have to do it right. Where you, when you wrote the map, Santa Valk advanced and you programmed the failure weeks like that, was this like the research you were reading when you started, that kind of came together for you? I mean, that was the first time that we'd ever program that in a program. I knew, I remember when you were testing it out last year,

or that you almost a year before, it's been a while now. And you were talking about this. Was that something that you hadn't really experimented with in the past, with like really starting to manipulate the alternating the weeks like that with the intensity and the volume? Because Mike Menser was a big part of what you initially read about it, right? But the recovery part wasn't really a factor. No, it was so okay.

So if we take a step back, right? So I learned about the original, I guess failure training type concept. Early on, I was actually quite lucky. I want to say I was 15 or 16 and in the back of muscle and fitness or flex when I was bodybuilding magazines, I saw the cover of a book called Heavy Duty

and Mike Mensa was on it. He had this really square looking, like impressive physique and so, you know, 15, six year old, I'm like, he knows what he's talking about. So I bought that book. And it was the first time I'd heard a body builder attempt to use scientific theory

in relation to muscle adaptation or growth or what happens to your body. And it did make a logical sense. Now, he didn't come up with the idea. It was Arthur Jones, who was a professor, a scientist who had described this. And the theory basically was that you just need to send the muscle building signal

and anything above and beyond that causes overtraining or just dips into your ability to recover and adapt. And so they said, all you need is one set to absolute failure because when you fail, your body to recover and adapt. And so they said all you need is one set to absolute failure because when you fail, your body already gets that signal. Anything beyond that is unnecessary. And it made a lot sense to me.

And I tried it, again, I think it was 15 or 16. Up into that point, I've been working out since I was 14 and the way I trained was high volume kind of Arnold style bodybuilding style from mainly from the Arnold Schwarzenegger's book of insecticlet video bodybuilding. And the switch, this is looking back, right? The switch was so novel that I had this huge response

on my body. I remember I strength exploded. I think I gained like seven, eight pounds of lean body mass, which is a lot, especially for a kid. And then I was hooked, right? But then it eventually completely stopped working. I remember it worked super well in a short period of time. And then it totally stopped working. And then what Mike Menser said to do at that point was to rest

even longer in between workouts. So it was the original workout was three days a week. You would go, it was like legs, push, and pull. And then when that stopped working, what he said to do was to, instead of taking a day off and between to take two days off of it to in and it got to the point where Mike Mensa actually had clients he would train once every other week because this is how he said he would get them to progress.

It just didn't work like that at all. I tried it, got no progress, didn't work eventually went back and that was like the beginning of me experimenting with different types of theories. Now, that was my first time experimenting with it. And since then, I'd done so much experimentation with intensity and volume on myself, on clients, just throughout the years, there's been data that's been

compiling throughout the years on failure training. The data is kind of weird. It's not conclusive either way. It does show, does seem to show that volume, wraps, frequency, also play a role, and muscle building, not just intensity. So we know that pretty strongly. Also power lifters, Olympic lifters, strength athletes don't train that way. And so there's there's there's some

truth, but it's not the truth, right? There's there's a lot of stuff in between novelty plays a role, who knows? So through the years in looking at data and experimenting, I kind of figured out that it's about one third, one fourth of volume that going beyond technical failure, meaning your form breaks down. It's it's too much, it's also high risk of injury. I also, even doing that, notice that it would fry my body quickly. So like within a month of doing that, it's like I just, I had to take a break, even though I was doing such little volume. So that's where I came up with kind of,

that's how MAP's metabolic advances created. And that's why people get really good results from it. But failure training itself in a short period of time if you apply it right, you'll get the fastest the fastest gains in a four week period through that than anything else. Well, the biggest thing I've found with it too is the point that you made in terms of it being a bit more high risk. And to be able to kind of stay ahead of that and by going more with the high rep route. And this is something that I had to kind of experiment and play with when structuring these focused type of, you know, one rep max for these kids going through this football program.

And it was like, I didn't want, typically you do like the one rep max is like, this is like the standard for everything and like we kind of worked our way up to that, which I did still keep at the very end of the program after the three months, but it's like, to continuously test that would just fry them. Yeah.

And it was just like, and then you're dealing with that risk factor of like, oh my god, you know, somebody is just a higher chance of injury or something kind of given away. So I added like at least a five reps or five, eight reps and we're going in that direction more, which was a lot more managed. I just noticed. So for the injury issue, it's not that it's too heavy or, of course, the heavier the weight, the higher risk of injury, because if your form is off a little bit,

you know, it can mean, it can mean you really hurt yourself versus if it's lighter in your form goes off. Failure training is injury prone because when you start to fatigue, which obviously going to failure means you, that's what you're going after. Your body will start to revert to form and technique

to try to get the weight to move. Your body doesn't know, I'm trying to do a perfect squat. It just knows I'm trying to lift something. And so when I get to that fatigue part, if I'm not really conscious of good form of technique and I don't have of good form of technique and I don't have a good grasp of it, my body will do whatever the hell it needs to get the weight up.

This is why you'll see people twisting and their hips will come out, weird shit will happen. So it's very injury prone. And then the higher reps for body building, if I did one set to failure of five reps, that's hard. But I don't build up the metabolic stress like if I did 12 set to failure of five reps, that's hard, but I don't build up the metabolic stress, like if I did 12 reps to failure, right? So the volume solo on the sets that the reps tend to

need to be higher to get the pump and the metabolic type of stress that I think is important for hypertrophy in particular. So I think it's some of the worst messaging that has ever been perpetuated by the fitness base. I really do. I think and I think so many people gravitate towards it. I spent at least a decade of my training career thinking that that was what was ideal. A lot of the bodybuilding message is built around that still to this day. When you you hear them. Most of them will tout that, you know, most people just can't take it to that intensity level. And there's this idea that underfed or yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. There's no such thing as over

training under only under eating and just getting fat and over trained. And I guess you just don't really realize like those people that promote those messages don't realize what a genetic anomaly they are and what a factor anabolic steroids plays a massive role. Totally. And someone who has been on and off steroids for most of my life, it's crazy that just because you're on antibiotics means you can get away with it more, but it's still not ideal. It's so interesting why...

Ideal is still ideal. You just get away with making more mistakes. Yeah, and it's crazy, like when I've figured out that, you know, to this whole volume intensity, nutrition, and stress was like this dance that you're always doing with your body and that when you throttle down like that all the time, sure, there can be a place for that where it could have value, but 90% of the time, it's not. I was just gonna say, God, it's so funny, you hit that, you said that number.

If you were to look at, if all of us were to examine and look at a person's, let's say, one, two, year, three year, let's say long-term, a long-term training programming, it probably will look like 90% cruising, 10% cruising. Yes, totally. So only 10% of the time should you really push it to sprint.

The rest of the time, you're cruising. Anything, you changed the ratio 80, 20, 70, 30, whatever, you're asking for trouble. You're not going to get there any faster either. It's so funny, because I guarantee this will be clipped out somewhere, and somebody will share it with some meathead or some trainer. That's all broided out. And then they'll they're just a bunch of pussies. You know, they don't want to sweat. They don't want to train hard with it. It's just like, no, you moron. There's a much easier way to

get fucking jacked and not have to train that way. And it really took me a long time to figure that out. And it's so funny because it's like, oh my God, it's actually doesn't have to be that difficult. And when you learn that it's this like beautiful dance between stress, nutrition, recovery, volume, and intensity, you realize that's your nitrous button that, yes, of course, if you're in a drag race and you're neck and neck and you hit that button, you're gonna edge forward and get a little more and win. But if you throttle on that

all the time, engine blows. Yeah. And I don't care. You're just you're not gonna win the long race. And so to run like that and for so long, I was I was plateaued and a lot of it had to do, with just revving that engine up to our end. When I started to scale back on volume, scale back on all of a sudden I started to build muscle and I was like, oh my God, like, it's crazy to think that it was, but it was because of the messaging because that is what is promoted,

the hype and the music behind the lifting, and it's like watching Ronnie Coleman before I go train every time. And just like, not even, dude, it's in every direction. Yes. I mean, you realize, like, even in the cardio group class experience, it's intensity, it's loud music, it's everybody has to put 100% out. Like, it was in the sports world.

For me, it was like every single workout was like, you had to feel like you just got your ass kicked. Like, that was like the mentality. All of us shared that. And it was like, man, I can only imagine going back and just like working with my body and like, how much further progress I would have gotten. 100?

I would have been. 100%. It's like, when an athlete or a celebrity or a fitness influencer or whatever shares their workout or their programming, they're not sharing with you what they normally do. They're sharing with you the peak of what they normally do. When you watch a pro athlete train,

what you're watching is probably like, oh, nobody's gonna record their normal workout in post it. Like, I don't talk about the fact that when I do pull-ups, this is true story. It's not Instagram. When I do pull-ups for a workout, body weight pull-ups, okay? I'm always hovering around eight to 10.

Today, I want to see how many I could do. 20. So if somebody's like, how many pull-ups can I do? I'm not gonna say eight to 10. It's natural. Or I could do 20. How often do I go hammer out 20 pull ups? Never, never I'd say anything with finance, right?

Your best month. Yeah. How much do you make? Are they gonna pick that one month? The biggest month I ever had in my life. You know, that's the standard by 12. Yeah, so it's so true. So, but then, you know, the consumer sees this.

Like, oh, that's how I'm gonna get that way is I gotta train like that all the time. Not even the genetically gifted anomalies, not even the people that don't represent most people train like that all the time. They train like that, you know, eight weeks. Well, he's back to the 9010, like you're saying, and we said that that's a great rule. If a race car track was a good representation of life. Life is full of these hairpin turns and figure eights and heart and you've got one straightaway, that's it.

And every time you lap around, there's a small stretch you should throttle down to maximize winning this race. The rest of the time, they're just turns and they're harder turns and there's no reason for you to be throttling that hard. You should be trying to minimize that, to balance that. Yes.

And yet we have, we're just throwing all of it. So all I was doing in my 20s was just, wow, it's been out. Wow, it's been out. It's been out. It's been out. It's been out. It's been out.

It's been out. It's been out. It's been out. It's been out. It's been out. It's been out. I just see like the whole Instagram is being like the fans that finally get to see you. Yeah. You keep going. You're back on the like spending your cell. Spending out. Like going, yeah. Oh wait, there's a fans.

Oh, hey, look at what I just did. I, in fact, this is how bad it is. What I just said about people posting their workouts, it gets even worse. People don't actually even post their best workouts. They post their best workouts plus 50% more. I mean, I know people personally, personally, well, they'll list their workouts, and then I'll know their workout partners,

and their workout partners will be like, he doesn't do it. They show two reps for me. You remember when we used to work out? I remember when we used to see Joe Donnelly, and when we first met. Oh yeah, I need to put you a 46 sets. What the fuck are you doing guys?

This training partner's like, he does 12. Yeah, you know, he doesn't have to do it on 56 sets. And it's so funny because it's weird how it works, right? Because you see someone, because none the less guys impress it, right? It's strong, you look amazing. Sure. Big Jack dude, right? And you're a young kid and you go to,

and you just, you die at one tenth of that volume and you're like, this is why I'm not there yet. I just gotta keep pushing and like maybe one day I'll be able to finish this workout. You said some about, you know, Annabelle steroids and allows you to get away with more. A lot of people don't realize this with Androgens. They do make your muscles more resilient,

recovery is faster, you kind of turbocharged, right? They also turbocharged and make the CNS more resilient. A lot of people don't know that. They affect your central nervous system in very powerful ways. In fact, in fact, in athletes in strength sports, where it's common to use anabolic steroids, know this. There are specific anabolic steroids that athletes will use precisely

for their central nervous system, stimulating effects. For example, power lifters, there is a steroid that looked this up for anybody who thinks this is cool. You can look this up. It's a weird name, they're called check drops, CHEQUE drops. It's a type of anabolic steroid, I was reading about this the other day. It's got very little value for muscle building, hypertrophy,

it's very toxic, whatever. But it has this effect where you take it and an hour later, you're an aggressive animal. And so power lifters, it's a favorite steroid among power lifters before and after. Or for MMA fight. MMA athletes will use it before they'll fight or boxers before they fight because of its CNS effects. There's other anabolic star, it's like anodrol,

also very well known for this where you'll take it for five days and you're significantly stronger. You didn't build any muscle in five days. It was, so not only do these athletes who are genetically gifted, recover faster and can deal's wrong, you didn't build any muscle in five days. It was, so not only do these athletes who are genetically gifted, recover faster and can deal with more, but then they're on high levels of Andregins, which make their central nervous system

more resilient to the beat downs of the workouts and stress and shit like that. Pretty wild when you think about it. The funny part is though, I got an opportunity, you know, during that little three and a half, four year run or whatever it was when I was chasing plastic trophies. And I got to coach a lot of these body builders,

bikini athletes, men's physique athletes. And one of my favorite things to be able to show them is to balance their recovery and scale back their intensity and volume. Nobody showed them that. And like blow their mind. I know. And pull back the steroids.

It's like, I'm like, I'm gonna pull back these steroids. We're gonna take off a day in the week now. You're gonna do five less sets every workout. It's like, I don't want you training to failure except for when I tell you, we'll probably do it once every other week or so. Like it was just like, I remember like them being so shocked by like, are you sure? I'm just to trust the process.

You'll see. And even on anabolic, they were seeing incredible results by pulling back on the point. I just think that we're, we're, we're misled on how value and, and by the way, we're saying that it has value and I do think it has value and yes, 10% of the time you'll find me doing some of that, but you could literally never train to failure. Yes. And build an incredibly strong, amazing physical.

100% yeah. Now I train to failure now on average. I would say a total of, let me see, if it's probably five weeks out of the year, not in a row, either. It's not five weeks in a row out of the year. It's like a week here, a week there, and if I were to add it up, that's it. So how many weeks are there in a year? I don't know, but that's about it.

You know, back to like the race car analogy, again, too. It's like the guy who decides like, you know, the fastest I can take these corners at is like 90 miles an hour in this race car. So he drives the whole race at 90 miles an hour. The other guy is throttling all the time. And spinning off. Yeah, and spinning off. He's still gonna win.

Or the other analogy we've seen this in golf. Like there's guys that like just, they hit their seven iron so sweet, but they can't drive straight and so with that. So they play the whole course with one club, the seven iron, and they actually shoot their best golf because they're not trying to crush the ball all the time. Yeah, reminds me of trying to line up their next shot. It reminds me when I beat you guys at top golf.

That is, that is almost, that's almost exactly what happened. You remember that? You guys were blessed. Of course we were. And missing it. And I was just pop pop. almost last exactly what happened. You remember that? You guys were blessed. Of course we remember that. And missing it. And I was just pop, pop. The carnival king strikes again. Can we make a machine now?

No, this is carnival king. Give me a hand. Hey, carnival king. You are the king. No, it makes me sound like a carny. I'm not too fed up with the car. Hey, did you guys see I was listening this morning on Dave Ramsey, somebody called, I love listening to his callers.

He gets some of the greatest callers and he had this caller call in. Guys, I think just about the turn 50 years old and him and his wife, he's, he's, I haven't heard, I haven't met somebody or heard somebody that tell a story that this happened to them. But you guys, are you guys familiar with people that like go in with like their whole work and everybody buys a lot already tickets? I know. I don't like you lottery. And like they all, they all they all put a thousand dollars in.

And so then they end up getting like, you know, you know, if you're real quick, if you're the boss and all your staff buys a ticket, you're really hoping they don't win. He's like, fuck, I'm like, you're not going at the same time. My whole staff is gone. I never thought, I bet you, you know what?

Since you, that says such a good point that I bet never does the boss probably put that together. That's probably all the employing. But the boss isn't on a table. Yeah, I was gonna say, he's put that together. That's probably all the employing. That's the bosses in on it. Yeah, I was gonna say he'd better put his share in there so he gets a piece. Well, that's, I'm saying that it's like all the employees or they don't even involve the bosses.

They probably all go like, let's put our money together so we can fucking leave this place. Hey, what's that scene for? Hey, that mutiny. One of the funniest scenes in any TV show was Reno 9-1-1, where they all thought they won the lot. Oh my God. That was so hilarious. We're they're all walking in one by one, talking shit

because they thought they won. Like one of the dudes comes in a fur coat. Yeah. You know, he's talking shit. Yeah, yeah. But there was a misprint. Take this job and shit. And they all realized it was bad and they put it down on some.

Yeah. And then the next person comes in. They all just like, waited out. One of the chicks walks in and she's hammered and shit. I'm drugs. The irony though, this guy who won actually said that he was talking to Dave and he said that he, I love my job so I don't wanna quit my job. But he after, so they did that with a bunch of people at work.

I don't know how many, he didn't say how many, but a bunch of people at work all went in on it. They won after taxes and splitting it all up. He still walked away with 22 million. Yeah. And yeah, he was asking him. And so he's asking Dave if he thought that they shouldn't tell, and he's like, we haven't told anybody.

He's like, we've literally, I think he's the name. He even tell us, he didn't tell us kids, didn't tell any of their friends, their parents, they didn't tell anybody. And he's just like, you know, we just, you know, he said he did a bunch of like reading after he won, he went and researched like, you know, he said he did a bunch of like reading after he won, he like went and researched, like, you know, what happens that how many people go bankrupt after winning the lotto and the top reasons why. And one of the top reasons why aside from the fact, I think the top reason is people that get a win fall money like that.

And we see this with athletes and it's just they didn't build the behaviors around having that kind of money. Yeah, I'd be like snapping my fingers and making obese person lean. Right. And then thinking they're going to be able to keep it off. Yeah. And then they'll go back to their life. That's right. Because they didn't learn those behaviors. Same thing goes with money. So I thought that was really funny that this guy is he's calling in and he's asking. He's smart. He shouldn't. I know. I thought so. Well thought out.

I was thinking about it. Like, okay. If I if he respects the power of the money. Yeah. If you won that much money, one, who, who do you tell or not tell? And then what do you do with what do you do? Well, you guys would know right away. Stick with 22 man. This is a good number. I would tell you guys right away, my wife, I don't, and then my, my, yeah, I would, I would, because I want my one fourth, because we've already agreed that everything that

we did do together. Yeah. I told you guys what I would do. I'd come in and be like, we're going to Chili everything that we do together. Yeah, we're on the wonderful earth right away. Don't matter where it came from. I told you guys what I would do. I'd come in and be like, we're going to Chili's for lunch on me.

What's up with Sal? What's going on with Sal? No, I have so many coupons now. I would, we know what my dream is. Seriously, I don't think anything would change for work or anything like that. I'd still come here and love what I do. One thing would change is I would try to buy a piece of land

where I could have my parents, my wife's, so I like that. I like that. You know, maybe my siblings would be up to them, but definitely my parents and my wife's mom would live on like the gemstones, right? Have a piece of land with houses. I do think that would be one of the coolest.

You guys can retire here, we'll all live together. I do think that would be one of the coolest ways to do something for the family without like doing something for the family is to buy a hundred acres and have four or five houses on it and it dates. You guys can live there, it's yours to live it for if you want. I like that. And then put a school on that that we hire like specific people

to run and again, that's kind of where my brain is these days is like how can we kind of Have our own autonomy in terms of like, you know with the kids like how can they get how can they learn? Ways to be self-sufficient To you know music to learn like all these things I wish I'd have learned in school never got taught, you know And like how to manage money how to like finance all that stuff like I would I'd have learned in school. I've got taught, you know, and how to manage money, how to finance all that stuff. I would go all in on all that kind of stuff.

I want to know what, Doug, because you're the biggest tide asset all of us. So, yes, you are. I don't know if I am. Yes, you are for sure you are. I go to Vegas, of course. Yeah, yeah. Let it ride on Black 24.

Let's go. All of it, all of it. I mean, yeah, I am kind of tight that way. For me, a nice house would All of it, all of it. I mean, yeah, I am kind of tight that way. For me, a nice house would definitely be in a custom that you build. Very custom, yes. I've been thinking of a place for probably over 10 years.

It has been changing in my mind ever since that time, but I put it the paper and then actually build the thing. But for me, investments, I would definitely diversify that. I would not, I would definitely not go out and just spend it on wild things or by things, not by experiences. I don't think travel, that type of thing. I don't think Doug's tight. I think Doug's wise. Well, he knows what he likes, so he doesn't like. I think people make a mistake when they, well, it's a big mistake, when you have money and you don't truly know what really is gonna bring you value.

Well, do you spend it on a bunch of things? Do you believe that about yourself? Do you not think that there's a little bit of you that is a little bit of a tightest? Oh, definitely. Okay, I come by naturally. If you can keep it. No, but that's not the same, though.

No, no, no. So I'm very careful with my money. That's different. So I'm very careful with my advisor. However, they're a bit of a tightest. He's also very generous, though. I've seen him be very generous. He buys shit for people that he doesn't need to all the time

and takes care of bills. Yeah. So, you know, I don't think, a tight ass to me, when I hear a tight ass, it's somebody that's got a bad relationship with money in the reverse. That's what I think of. Oh, I don't think like that necessarily. I don't think of it as a negative.

I don't even think of it as a negative, I don't even think of that as a like a negative thing. I just think if you were, if there was a spectrum of like tight asses on one side and over the top frivolous is on the other side. You're a marked towards the loose ass. Yeah, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're fair, fair evaluation.

No, I'm, I'm extremely careful. Yeah. Cause I do know that it can go very quickly. Yeah. Easy come, easy go, if you will. And I grew up with parents that grew up right after the depression. And they were so careful.

I mean, if you compare me with my parents, I'm like this crazy over-the-top spender compared to them. But it served them well. I saw my parents, my dad was a junior high school principal and they were very careful with their money. He retired when I was a junior in high school. Wow.

From school, he did some other things afterwards. He was a builder on the side, and he did a remodeling company for a while, and then he loved video editing, funny how I got that. So he did some of that for my brother-in-law's company, but they traveled, they traveled the world. On not much, but they were so careful with their money, and then they owned a home, and then they had a couple rental properties.

And. That's really impressive. That's great. Yeah, when my dad passed away, he left my mom flush with cash. No needs for any help whatsoever outside for the family and that type of thing. So I have that naturally inside of me.

However, I would do things that my dad would never do. I mean, if I see something I want, I'm gonna buy the nicest I can buy. Like you're a espresso machine. Yeah. I think it's a roller coaster. Or a samurai sword. I mean, see, he's not like that much of it.

Like there's obviously, he's not a miser. I know that. He knows what's valuable. But I would think if we were all, the four of us were on a spectrum and I would put him on the furthest left of that direction. That's what I mean by that. And I don't mean it in a negative way,

because I don't think any of us are on the other extreme. I'm not a big spender either. Yeah, you're the next closest. I mean, that's why you defend him in that, because I know you see a little bit of this. Well, no, I just think I like him. I'll spend money if I want something, but I just don't want a lot of things. That's the thing. Yeah. There's a lot of things I don't necessarily care about. But I grew up in a similar way,

where I learned those skills through watching my parents. I mean, my parents obviously very, very poor. My dad, till this day, you know what, he gets excited to tell me if he saves $15 on tires. he did this the other day. Still. It always starts off the story like this. Those fucking guys try to rip me off of it. You know how much they try to charge you for tires? And then he'll give me the number.

And they'll be like, I found him online for this month. You see, you ain't getting over on me. You saved $60 on all your tires, yeah. You believe that? Like, it's so big down there. It's so funny. My mom, she loves saving so much. She gets a bargain, she's just so happy.

Yeah. Her favorite place to shop is the Goodwill. And they have these big bins, and she'll go, your mom and my mom would be best friends. She's 91. And she goes down there You know she gets dressed up and goes down to the goodwill and she finds all this stuff some some of its you know expensive name brand stuff

And she buys shoes and whatever else she told me the other day that she had a hundred pairs of shoes Like a mildummarco. Wow, mom you never even wear those because you know how much I spend on those Each one was it I bet she paid for a hundred pairs of shoes. She probably paid $50 My mom shot some place called the bargain barn Because he's still he doesn't still do that. I know she's still fucking does really. Yes, so great I swear to God she was so do so great. Just dumpster dive, you know, and find things and like, and you know, it's one of those things. It's like, it's a pride thing for her

that she can find like that tragedy. Oh yeah, she loves it, tragedy. I absolutely. That's why I'm like repulsed by it. You know, like I just, I went in the opposite, like I don't, again, like I don't spend outside my means ever, like it's always within my means. I think we're all like now.

I just want the thing that I want to be high, high, high quality. You know, like I'm so not into like the cheap, save of fucking bucks. I mean, I will make money so I can get the thing. He's right. I mean, look at the helmet that he just got. That's the Cadillac of, yeah. Did someone make ever a helmet? How did you get that? I make it for me, yeah.

Oh, really? Is it a listener or someone you actually sought out? No, I just looked it up. Can you come contract it? I'm gonna ask you a question, I want the truth though. What? Did you try it on? Fuck yeah, it's for you.

Did you go, man. My nose was kinda too close to it. I was like, smash it. Hey, hold on, second question, be honest. Did you have sex in it? Is it not yet? Yeah. Is it, is it really expensive? on, second question, be honest. Did you have sex in it? Not yet. Yeah. Is it really expensive?

No, it was like, no, it's just like, it's like $200. Okay. I mean, it's kind of expensive for a plastic helmet. Yeah, but I'm ready for cosplay, you guys. No, it's nothing. Okay, so again, everybody obviously has the conservative with it. Not is there like one thing that you would say,

it'd be a little absurd or a little like obnoxious or something that would be splurging. Like is it, if you were to, what would, yeah, like there's something either a thing or a service like you would, because I know for me it would be a service. Like there's a service that I would pay for. It's a little bit obnoxious or absurd.

But I would be like, if I got that kind of money. Home Chef. Well, yeah, I don't think that's absurd. I think that's really up to that. Because I would do that. Yeah, yeah. That's like, I've constantly done that. That's a necessity.

I mean, we've talked about putting our money together like, hey, we could probably hire a chef. What do you guys think we should do? So that's not, that's not like, that's a definite, right? Well, what is it then? I would want fresh sheets every day on my bed. I love getting into a bed of fresh sheets every day on my bed. I love getting into a bed of fresh sheets out of the dryer and have a service

where I don't have to make my battery with that. I freaking just get to climb in like hotel feeling. That is the weirdest thing I ever had. No, that's what I was doing. I was doing it. I was doing it. Yeah, it's so doable. But it's a little absurd.

Just tell your wife you want to do that. No, I see, I don't want her to have to do it, right? She doesn't have to do it. And we already get fresh sheets once a week, but I will want them daily. Every day I want to get in that. What's that downy fresh bear? Dude, there's so many.

Oh yeah, I don't know this because I got sensitive skin or what it is, but getting into a bed that feels like it just came out of the dryer and has that smell. It's a mess feeling. Oh, it's an amazing feeling. It's weird how much of these things could be tied to something when you were kids. The guarantee has something to do for sure.

We had the same pair of sheets. Shitty sheets and I watched our sheets like once a year or so to that day. It's disgusting. It's your body pressure. Yeah, dude, it was definitely not so. Did you, that bear that you just talked about, that frickin' snuggles, whatever the hell you think?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you just me or did you, just wanna kick the shit out of the one? I just wanted to punt it. Yes, what is it about that annoying ass bear? Which time I saw that commercial as a kid? They're trying to make it all cute. Want to beat him up?

Yeah, please. Sorry, it's a poppet hit off. This is how Justin and I connect. Over and stuff like that. We used to rip heads off barbs. Dude, I gotta tell you, okay, so I'm gonna take a turn here. I went on the seeds website

to look up the science behind their probiotic, so I can communicate it better. So I stand behind the, I always say it's the world's best probiotic. And for sure, for sure. Well, they have the world's best scientists working on it. So I would imagine that. It's on another level.

So I'm gonna cover a few things about them that are different than any other probiotic. They have, there's two capsules within one capsule, okay? The outer capsule is a barrier to oxygen, moisture and heat, which is what keeps the probiotics alive at room temperature. So if you take a probiotic, you either have to refrigerate it or it's room temperature and it dies. And then the refrigerator one,

as soon as it hits your gut, it's dead anyway, right? So you get some benefit from dead probiotics, but you get more benefit from live probiotics. They've created this. The inner capsule creates a barrier to help it move through the body. The outer capsule stops it from getting destroyed in the gut and also provides it with prebiotics.

So these are, this is the outer capsules made with compounds that feed the probiotics as they're released to help keep them alive. And it's the only probiotic that's been shown to make it to the colon. So it goes all the way through. Double capsule. That's right, yeah. That's right. And make it to the colon. So it goes all the way through double capsules. That's right, yeah.

That's right. And so it gets to, it's the only probiotic to have shown that. It's to, they test it specifically to show that it doesn't get destroyed in the gut, but makes it all the way to your, your colon. Interesting. And actually seeds where you need to.

This is why it's the, like I said, this is the one. Don't they have some kind of like simulator. They do. Yeah. I would love to see that in person. They have a specific machine that simulates the, the gastro process and that you can watch the capsule make it all the way through. Yeah, they'll put other probiotics to show you. I remember only first,

we reached the colon. Started working with them and how excited you were about it, which sometimes I just like whatever, so I get excited about a lot of things with supplements. And so I kind of didn't like think too much about it. This works my feeling. But I'm going to defend you here though. I mean, like, what I, when I really knew like how good they were was,

when other people who've been either taking probiotics for a really like, they take it and the feedback I get is like the, oh my God. Oh my God. Like I can tell a difference with this probiotic. I've been taking probiotics for years and like nothing is like the seed. I've had at least a handful of people message me that and tell me like how,

I wonder how many people have taken probiotics. Ah, it does nothing, did nothing for me, you know, it's because they just didn't have the right deliveries. I've taken a million and one probiotic comp. Can you, can you overdo it, Sal? Can you, so you can? Yeah, of course.

Just overpopulate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what's the, is there, how do we find out the right balance? Depends on the survivability where it reaches in the body and the individual, but typically you're looking at, I think 50 million to 100 million

is the number of bacteria you're looking for in a 50 million to 100 million is the number of bacteria you're looking for in a capsule. Some people go much higher, but I think that's because most of the bacteria gets destroyed in their gut. So they have to go so high to elicit some type of a positive effect. But then children, you don't want to give them something that's got 50 million, you know, whatever. I remember the unit of measurement. Yeah. Well, I have to write down a bunch of these questions because so we, I told you that Katrina and I are going through and renewing all the contracts for next year and we just did seed.

And I actually requested to have one of the doctors back on because it's been so long since we've done that. And I would love to do a really deep dive on the probiotics. And so I'd like to make a list of questions like that and hear them explain everything to us because I think we did that when we first met them but that was like three years ago now it's been three four years ago. It's been a long time right? When we had the the C doctor come on here that was a long time. I had a good three years at least that right? Yeah

yeah speaking of beneficial bacteria so I don't know if you guys have noticed, so we've been working with zybotics, right? So for people who don't know, zybotics is a probiotic drink where the bacteria have been modified, literally gene modified to break down acetaldehyde, which is one of the negative bi-products of alcohol. Acetyldehyde is often responsible for the shady feelings that people have when they drink alcohol.

Because your liver process is it, but some gets released in the gut or gets from alcohol, it goes through the gut, and then it can cause things like headache, you can feel inflamed, digest the issues, that kind of stuff. So Zeebotic has genetically modified bacteria that when you take it and then drink, these bacteria break down the acetaldehyde into components that are just not going to cause any problems. I don't know if you guys have noticed this. This is how big of an impact Z-biotics is having

because they're slowly like really taking over. It's one of those products where they don't put a ton of money in advertising, but because of word of mouth, more and more people are like, whoa, this shit is crazy. It really works really well. Are you guys noticing all the supplements now that are coming out? Talk about so many competitors. As to tell the hype, this breaks out. As to how they have a patent, right?

You cannot make this. Only Zeybottix has this bacteria that can do this. Everybody else will use herbs and compounds to support the liver mimic it, to try to work with acetaldehyde, but it's not your liver's inability to die. I don't know if this is a good OG. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing

because I feel like unfortunately, the average consumer has no idea. Has no idea. They hear something like this, they hear some of the same words getting thrown around and they go, oh yeah, I tried some product. I've had that happen already with family friends. I'm like, oh, you have to like this. They hear some of the same words getting thrown around and they go, oh yeah, I tried some product. I've had that happen already with family friends. I'm like, oh, you have to do this.

Oh no, I've tried that. That's just, that should just work. It's kind of the right therapy too. You know exactly, right. You have somebody who's got out and bought some cheap one or something like that. And there's like, oh, that's stupid. That's a work of time.

Oh man, that's a, that's a, I mean, obviously we're all pro free market. And so I'm, no, what, what other products try to do is they try to remedy the after effects of exposure to high levels of acetaldehyde in the gut. So they'll, they'll put detoxifiers in there to help with the liver. You gotta hydrate yourself, electrolytes.

Oh, here's some antioxidants, right? So what they're trying to do is put the fire out. What Zeybiotics does is it prevents the fire from starting in the first place. There is nothing on the market like Zeybiotics because it's patented. It is a patented probiotic strain that they genetically modified

to do precisely what I'm talking about. And you cannot copy this. They're protected by a patent. So there's nothing that's out there. Yeah, there's been morning the knockoffs. Totally. Hey, what is, if my cousin has a kid, that kid is what to me and my family.

Second cousin? Is that what it is, my second cousin? Your first cousin, second cousin? Yeah, is my first cousin, or first cousin once removed. There's your kissing cousin. I always wanted to, why'd you look at me? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

oh, God, I mean, I think soians, get on time. So my second cousin, you look familiar. That's where I got it. Oh, God. That's wrong. Sorry, just a little.

It's a real rude story. That's wrong, that's wrong. Let me make the case now. That's great, okay. Second cousin. I was talking to my case now. That's great. Okay. Second cousin. I was talking to my second cousin. He's only like in his mid 20s right now, early,

early to mid like 24ish, I think he is. And just had his first baby with his wife. And she's only 22, I believe. So they're really young. And I was talking to him yesterday, checking up on him, seeing how things are going. So with that, and he said something that I thought was unique, because I think we've shared this before. And I'm curious to, if you've either read research or if you have like some sort of an

evolutionary theory behind it. So is the one I asked, you know, what's the You know, my love for my wife is radically changed. Like, I look at her so different now than what I did before. And I totally can relate to that. Like, it was such a, Trinidad had such a great relationship of bond. We've been together for a long time. You know, we're together for a decade before we even had a kid, right?

So we've, we've got a great foundation and introducing a child into that, like radically changed my love for her. It was wild and unexpected, right? Like I didn't think that I would have this. Or you didn't even know that I would feel that way. Yeah, or I didn't know that would have, like yeah, I didn't know what if,

I couldn't try and imagine that, or even know what that would feel like. It was so unique, right? I guess as a father or a husband, I guess there's something with, like, obviously there's this love that you never thought you could have before, once you have children, which everybody here can relate to. And then to see your partner take care of that thing that is a part of you, I guess, it has to be like it because it's an extension of you. And it's almost like you get an

outside view of them taking care of a part of you. It's such a weird thing because evolutionarily speaking, I mean, it makes sense, right? Otherwise, the species wouldn't even exist. We wouldn't survive if we didn't have those feelings. But it's counter to your own survival, meaning if you have a baby, for most of human history, it's a burden. You got to feed this, this, this creature that can't do anything. Okay, human babies are literally worthless for a long time. It's like a giraffe or a gazelle. They can run almost immediately. Human babies are a fetus for a long time. So they're almost a burden. And then for the man, evolutionarily speaking, the baby is a burden, but so is the partner, because she's not able to do a goddamn thing for a while

either. And she's got a breast do a goddamn thing for a while either. And she's got a breastfeed and be connected to this baby. So now you're the hunter. Sorry, this is back when men, you know, we're hunters. You got to find food for you, for your wife and your baby now. So you just, you know, tripled your responsibilities right out the gates. you know, tripled your, your responsibilities right out the gates. So in order to continue the species, we have to have this incredible drive and connection. So I don't know. I, it's got to come from something like that, but I would say try this, try hating someone that genuinely loves your kids. It's impossible. It's hard. You can't do it. You can't, you know,

they say that, that's a lot of times what heals like a poor relationship with a parent? Of course, because now you see them as a grandmother, loving your child or a child. And they're like way better with their, yeah. Yeah, in their way. And I've heard of cases like that where completely heals a wounded parent child.

You could be, I could totally annoy me. I don't like you, whatever. And that's true. I could be the, you could be, I could, you could totally annoy me. I don't like you, whatever, for rare, and that's true, I still won't like you, but if I see you genuinely love my kids and treat them well, it's impossible for me to hate you. How can I hate you? You think the reverse is also true? Like, let's say you take that same scenario

where you have a parent who you don't have a good relationship and they don't like love your child or they don't or they don't make effort towards your kid. I would imagine that would drive a drive a stage is take even more. I mean, obviously they mistreat them, but even to just not want to love them as much would probably make that. You know what's funny is that, because I've always loved kids. The oldest of four had lots of little cousins. I was always put in charge of watching them, so I had a lot of training, I guess.

And I just love babies, love kids, love babies. Anytime I go to a party, or like let's say I went to a family party or a friend party where people don't know me, right? So I go to like a friend's party. I would always, you know, people are attracted to the pets, like the dog or the cat. I was always attracted to the kids,

and you would always see me holding kids or playing with kids. And the, wherever I was, that didn't matter where I was, they didn't know me as soon as people saw me with the kids, and it wasn't like I did on purpose. Everybody there was like, he's the greatest, oh my God, I love him.

And now as a father, I realize this, if somebody came to my family party that I didn't know, and I saw them interacting with my kids in a very positive way, I wouldn't help but like them. You know, it's weird because it's uncommon. Yeah, you know, I think yeah, and you notice that too. Like, yeah, I used to get that. It's like you just pay attention, kids, acknowledge them,

and you know, like try and interact with them. Like getting a guy, especially, to like interact with kids, it's like a rare thing. Oh yeah, there's that family guy, there's a family guy episode, repeater takes Stewie to the park and then Stewie poops himself. So he like puts him down to change his diaper

and all the moms there, like, it's a dad, you're changing a diaper. It's like playing like the dramatic music. You have to do the little, like the least amount of effort. The bars very low. Yeah. You see that?

We had somebody in our forum who commented, we had that discussion the other day. And Jeff, I forget Jeff's last name, but he's in our forum. And he was actually the reverse situation, right? Which is super rare, which was. For mom left. Mom left and he actually raised his son by himself.

I thought. And it was early too. I think he said five raised his son by himself like that and it was early to I think he said five months or five years. Good man. Yeah. Good man. Yeah. No, super super impressive. He's speaking of kids. My daughter my baby daughter my 10-month-old daughter. This is right around the age this right around 10 months. I'd say to a year certain personality traits start to come out. Sure. It gets really good. Oh, bro. She's probably gonna be a brat. So I, oh, bro, listen. More challenge for you. Oh, listen. I, so she,

I thought this one was supposed to be easy, bro. Well, so she's chill. She's otherwise chill, right? She's a happy one, right? She is. She's always happy, always chill. But I'm starting to realize, she likes to tease and torment her older brother,

her almost three-year-old older brother. At first, I thought she was just being a little baby, just being a baby, and he's getting annoyed with her. But yesterday, I put them on a blanket on the floor. We have hardwood floors, and I'm pulling them around, and they're having fun, right? And I noticed, she figured out, because she's next to her brother,

she figured out that she could lift her leg up and kick them. So she starts kicking them, right? And he's like, stop it, stop it, stop it. And then I look at her little cute little baby face. And she makes, you know what, a little kid is trying to like mess with another kid, they make a face. She starts making this face, like she's trying to fuck with him and she's kicking him

and he's holding her leg down. Then she starts grabbing him with her hand and then she kicks it with leg. And I'm like, she's purposely fucking with her older brother at 10 months old. I recorded it. I got to show you guys.

Oh, I was dying. I sent it to Jessica. And she's like, is she doing that on purpose? I'm like, yeah, dude. She knows she's bothering him. She's doing on purpose. You know, it's funny too, it's sometimes what happens too,

is because she's a girl, she's younger and smaller. You defend her still, because the brother is older, stronger, and what you don't even realize you, you know, a natural unintentionally do, is create that even more. It's kind of a hard guy. You guys don't know this because you guys don't have daughters. And Doug has a daughter, but he doesn't have a son with her. But when you have, I don't know, this is, I don't know if this comment

happens with me, Jessica called it out. With my daughters and my sons, I'm harder on my sons. Of course, then I am with my daughters. And if there's a scuffle or something happens between them, I tend to side. And so what this has created is. Let's give you a balance. Well, yes, hopefully like mom, you got to be the other way around. What this creates is like, my daughters think they get like my older daughter, she just mess with her older brother and he just has to take it. And I know why it's because when they were little,

if you like, you know, did something back to her, it's like, don't you dare. You know, meanwhile, she was the one messing with them. So I'm like, damn it, this is gonna happen again. You know, I think that's gonna be like, she always hits me. Well, I mean, if she hits you, I love to do it.

I know people get weird when I, when you do analogies like this, but I can because I have a kid now and I had dogs. And I had two English bulldogs and they were a year and a half apart from each other. And Bentley, the older one, I remember, so he's only like what, two or something like that when I bring in the other one.

And the other little one, Mazi was so, so small and little. And he was kind of a run to the letter too. So he's gonna be, he was already gonna be small on a stature. I would always like protect him. Yeah, protect him because Bentley could, was too rough and I was afraid that he was gonna hurt him.

And so I did that so much that I trained Bentley that he is not allowed to respond like to physically just mess with him. And then as Mazi got older and turned into a teenage dog, you know, he get into this it's young teenage years or whatever in dog years. And he became a little shit. And then you have this smaller bulldog would just attack and punk Bentley all the time. And then Bentley was so afraid to respond. And that's not natural in the like the dog world. Bentley was so afraid to respond. And that's not natural in the like the dog world.

Like you're supposed to allow the alpha will assert himself and once he's done that, the dog will normally will submit. Like a dog once a pack has decided who the alpha is, then it doesn't have to keep reproving itself all the time. But his whole life, he had to get, he got in fights all the time because he would never assert himself, even though he was the alpha,

because he could crush Mazi, he would constantly would take this beating and Mazi was constantly trying to prove himself to, it was like, man, I really created that and didn't realize it until after the fact. Just because it calls me out on it. And it's like, I'm aware, I'm like, yeah, you're right. I'm like way harder on the boys than I am.

I think Justin's right though, like I feel like, I mean Katrina would for sure be that. The way she- You should be harder on the girl? Yes. No, definitely, I think she would. I think she'd be hell hard on a girl because she's such a hard-ass girl herself.

But man, she is so soft on Max. I always want, like, dude, you can't be that soft. I've heard that, right? I've read that. Moms are like that with their boys and kids. Yes. Is that because, I wonder if it's because you know, like as a boy, you know, as a man and a boy, right?

You know the shit that they're doing. Yes. And the girl, the mom with the girls, like, that's totally, I totally think it's that. Yeah, because that's the thing. There's a little bit of uncertainty there, like, when to correct and like, and I'm like quick on that. Like any inclination of like some kind of, like, something I need to address, like I'm addressing it, like right now, you sort of ask. No, that was like zero to a hundred.

I'm like, look, what happened the rest of the day? We had a great day, right? Snip that in the butt of the day? We had a great day, right? It snipped that in the butt. You know, so it's just one of those things. It makes it uncomfortable, but I see the pattern. I know what's going to transpire after that. And so it's, I imagine it would be the same thing, you know, with, you know, with the girl in terms of like the manipulation tactics, the way that they can kind of pull

string and all that. And then we're just like, oh, like, it's a tie spot. You know, I told her not all she knows how to do. And so I think that I'm not aware of. I think if we had a girl, I think Katrina would be much rougher. And I'd be constantly, hey, take it easy on my baby girl. I could see me be like, sweetie. Yeah, I could see me be that way.

She'd be like, nah, she's just working you. You're not even paying for what you're saying. Like, I could totally see that dynamic. And the opposite is true with Max. I'm'd be like, nah, she's just working you. You're not even paying for what you're saying. Like I can totally see that dynamic. And the opposite is true with Max. I'm always just like, stop coddling him. He's gonna be fine. Like he'll be alright. He'll put it in.

Yeah, it is. Speaking of wives, I was just talking to Jessica. Just get us in believe me. So I would love for you guys to hear what you guys think. So is there something that your wife does or maybe a way that she might look that is what maybe she would think wouldn't be attractive but you find super attractive.

Cause I'll give you guys an example. Yeah, you may. Like, like I cannot resist my wife when she's in the middle of doing mom shit wearing my sweats and her hair is back and no makeup. And she just hand lint shit or trying to do shit. And she always gets mad at me because I'm like, I'm like, oh, hands in that.

Oh, bro, I'm like, oh my god. And she thinks I'm full of shit. Like you're just saying that because you're whatever. I'm like, I have no makeup on. I'd even take a shower. I'm like, no, dude, this is the hottest thing I've ever seen in my life. Is there anything that you guys have?

Yeah, there's two for me, right? And I think that one is similar. Like it's just, it's normally's two for me, right? And I think that one is similar. Like it's just, it's normally taking care of Max, right? When I see her in the kitchen, putting together dinner, multitasking stuff on the laptop and in email stuff, like I see her in her element like that and handling that. Like and I'm actually in a moment where I'm like just chill. Like I'm decompressing from the day. I'm just relaxing and she's managing all these things in our house, right?

And everything's running smooth. Like, it's a very attractive. The other one for me, which is probably unique and different is business mode her. Like she's really, she is really, really talented. And I probably don't give her enough credit for what she does for the business behind the scenes. And I get glimpses of it, right?

I get to watch it in action and it's super attractive. And she can be, you know, ball cap on and like, sweaty from also working out in the garage and coming back and not- You should happen. Yeah, but because she's handling things that are such a big deal for us, the business, and like I just love, and what I know is that she and this is too a fault, by the way, too.

She doesn't ever tell anybody. And she doesn't ever. One of the things I always, when she used to work for Albany, so I would always tell her, you have to cheerlead for yourself a little bit. I know you come up as an athlete of just do the job. Do your work and let your game speak for itself. She has that attitude. And unfortunately in the workforce,

it doesn't serve you all the time, because your boss is above, aren't paying attention, they don't give a shit. It's not like there's not this direct scoreboard in a game where they're staring at you. It's just like, so she does a lot of stuff that is really impressive and really should be celebrated and does it and the fact that she doesn't need that

and doesn't ask for it. Like there's this super hot attractive thing about that. It's a similar attraction I have. Like it's just handling so many things and you just walk in and it's always for me, it's like, show, show, like, give me the breakdown of, like, how many assignments, like, you know, my, L, this has been turned in or has, has it been and like, gives me like the, the inside on what to kind of, like, bring up with each kid and like, what they're struggling with and like,

she's, she's so on top of like all of their interactions at school, their friends, like all these, like things that, like I just don't, you know, I come back home and I'm like, oh, okay, what's happening? You know, I'm just like so unaware of like all these things and she's like so great about, like giving me all the details of every little thing. Like if I didn't have her, I was just like, oh my God,

I'd be like just walking around. And it's attractive. Yeah, I love it. I love it because it's because then you feel like it's, you know, you have that that that person that that team member that's like, okay, we're being effective, you know, and like we're we're conquering things together. So that's that again, I don't know what kind of with attachment Adam brought up, but that was like that other kind of like a bonding. The bonding. Yeah. That bonding one where you're both like trying to achieve something together. Yeah.

How much more powerful that is when you like, I want to say have an orgasm, but it's well, you know what I'm saying? Well, it's very orgasmic for us. I was a big, because that was one of the few mind-pop episodes that I'd ever watched with Katrina, like sat down and actually watched the rewatch that we just don't do that. And that was a really powerful one for her, because she's just like, I think I was so good because it's easy to look at the things that you're doing for your partner, because you're loving them with through your language and you're doing all these things, and not

realizing that we have different needs. And there's different things that make us feel that way and men being respect and then having things that we set goals for and accomplish together and her being able to assist that, what a huge trend like for her, it's like she doesn't care, that's not even a big deal to her.

And then like after hearing that episode, she's going back and we're like, oh my God, that's right, when we set that goal to do that, we did that. Like I remember that time in our relationship. She's like, Oh, like there's this massive lightball that went off of like how powerful that is to be able to be aware of that and then to actually go implement it. And when she's wearing yoga pants in the kitchen, kitchen. Insane. It gets me every time. That's so funny. Adam, I want to ask you, how was your experience been with Ned still?

Because I know you cut out cannabis. You haven't known for a while. You used Ned. You said you had a very powerful effect from him. It did. So, Doug, actually, I think I admitted this last time that he had kind of said something and I was like, aw, I kind of dismissed it. And so now what I've been doing, because I have had the last couple of weeks have been a little off with my sleep.

And I haven't done it every night and I should be because I can tell a difference on the nights that I've used it. It's interesting to me, someone who has had as much cannabis as I have to have it now completely. I mean, I don't know how long it's been now. It's been over a month. Oh yeah, it's been well over a month now that I haven't had it. How interesting it is that the CBD is so, the full spectrum is so effective. I didn't, I always kind of felt it.

Like I've always felt it. But I've told you guys before, like once I started to get introduced to the mellow and the magnesium, what a difference that was for me, I really actually kind of fell off of using the sleep. I just didn't feel like I needed it at all and was in a big deal. Obviously I was still smoking back then,

not smoking anymore. Now having that, like I'm like, oh shit, this is like for people that don't smoke, like, yeah, powerful. I was getting really mad because I've given it like a family before that don't smoke, not like don't even, haven't been exposed to any of it.

And then they'll take some of that CBD because it's like so strong like, they're like, wow, like it's, it's almost like they get close to getting high off of it. Oh no, my guess. So it's realized how numb I was to that. It's the one supplement. Of all the products I've introduced to my parents,

it's the one product they don't stop. They're consistent with it. I get text messages from, hey, we're running out. Can you get me some more? Absolutely. It's the one that my dad and my mom use. Yeah, my mom loves it.

They use it to their life. So they get the capsules, they don't like the taste of the oil, same thing, right? And they do one little tiny capsule before bed. My dad's like, my arthritis pain is better. They're just sleep better. My mom's like my blood sugar, her blood sugar sleep better. My mom's like my blood sugar.

Her blood sugar measures better when she takes it on a regular basis, which is very interesting. So, you know, we are today talking about, you know, fatherhood, parenting and stuff like that. So shout out today. I'm gonna give you guys a show to watch. I just, we watched it last night. There's a, I think a five part, four or five part series

on Netflix, on David Beckham. Really. Oh crap. I just started. Really good. I just started. Really good. Bro. Yeah. So good. Yeah. I know. He's got respect. The guys. I know. I didn't watch him growing up and what he did with with his like how we got talented the way he trained. Yeah. I thought I was just because he's handsome. No. No. He's incredible. He's got a really cool story. And him and his wife, I'm only, I'm not, I have, they've been together forever. Bro, so they genuinely, like, you know,

horror is for celebrities and I get divorced. With that level of fame and popularity. Oh yeah, and even the way it's panicked, like, not to spoil our alert, but, you know, there's a part where he talks about when he first saw her on TV and he said, I'm gonna marry her. Dude, he, and then, like, with, and then, and then, yes, and he said, I'm gonna marry her. Dude, he has a spice girl.

And then yes, and we did, and then have through their 20s. When he plays 30s now into his 40s, I think they're in her 50s now, right? He's approaching 50, I think he's 50. Here's the thing that tripped me out, right? He's famous already, she's already famous, she's a spice girl. He, while playing for Manchester United, they're, and they're literally going to the finals, playing

some, like some of the most important games ever. He would drive, ready for this? Four hours, four hours to see her for 15 minutes and then drive back. And his teammates were all like, everybody was worried, the manager of the team was like, this is fucking terrible. Of course, he's still performed very well. But he would drive four out just to see her. He's 48. Yeah, I don't, after you guys watch it, we can talk all about it

because there's actually some really crazy stuff as far as of being a father that he went through that I just can't even fathom. Oh, I don't know why. It just gives you a whole nother respect for him. So we can talk about it afterwards. But go watch it. It's really good.

It's worth the watch, great story. And I'm not a big like soccer guy, like so I don't follow a ton of soccer. Obviously I knew loosely his story, but not to that extent. It's a big bull. So definitely, definitely good to watch. Organify makes organic supplements

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products. You also get a discount if you go through our link, go to organify.com. That's ORGA and IFI.com forward slash mind pump. Use a good mind pump and get a massive 20% off. All right, back to the show. Our first color is Sherry from Illinois. Hi, Sherry. How can I help you? Hi, I submitted a question asking about Post-Miniposal symptoms and being able to get the same results as I did pre-miniposally in the gym. I have been through miniposal now for

about four issues not seeing the same results besides the night sweats and the hot flashes and all the other wonderful things that come with minipos out for issues, not seeing the same results. Besides the night sweats and the hot flashes and all the other wonderful things that come with menopause, you just don't get the muscle building that you get before. You get the belly fat, that's hard to get rid of. The brain fog.

I do work out every day. I loved to lift four years ago. I actually did my very first swimsuit competition at 52 years old. And we'd love to be able to get to that again next year, but it's just been a struggle. Okay, this is a good question, Sherry. Now I'm looking at the question that you posted. And so do you mind if I talk a little bit more about what you sent in just for context?

Yes, please do. Okay, so you are on HRT. So you are on some hormone replacement therapy, which is going to bring hormones back or generally try to get close to where they were premenopause. That's the idea. You also wrote in there that you're going through some personal, personal challenges, some real stressful events, divorce, and also aging parents with health issues. Now, the reason why I'm bringing that up is because there's two, if you look at big

life changes in people, generally what you start, what you see is right around mid 30s, 40, you see people's, they're having kids, sometimes early 30s, but right now it looks like mid 30s. People start to people's, they're having kids, sometimes early 30s, but right now it looks like mid 30s. People start having kids, they're getting married, that's challenging by the first house. Then you get into the 50s and then aging parents. A lot of people don't know just how stressful and challenge that it is to take care of parents

that are aging. I'm watching my parents, or I watch my parents go through it with my grandfather, both my grandparents on my dad's side. It's a lot of challenges and then you throw a divorce on top of it. Now the reason why I'm saying this is because there's a lot of things that happen all at once and we tend to conflate them all into, well this must be the fact that I'm over 30, that's what people will say, or this must be because I'm now post-menopausal. But the reality is all these things are playing a big role.

We don't quite know which one's playing the biggest role. The fact that you're on HRT, I would say that the post-menopause hormone changes, now it's not gonna be completely negated with the HRT. You can't completely mimic natural hormones, but a lot of that is gonna get mitigated through hormone therapy. I would say that a lot of what you're feeling

in terms of your body not responding like you used to, probably has more to do with the life stresses than it does to the hormone changes that you would experience with menopause. Okay, so that being said, how do we approach training? How do we approach diet? You're gonna have to compensate for the added stress

by modifying your training program. I don't think training the way you did before without these added stresses is gonna be a good idea because I'm gonna guess, especially because you competed, that you probably trained close to the limit anyway. I mean, you competed at a high level at 52 years old. I'm looking at you now, I can't see all of you, but you look fit, you look energized, you look really good.

So you probably were already kind of pushing the limits, but now you add on top of that, two of the most stressful things that people will go through in their lives. You can't change those two things. I mean, the Doug's going through your Instagram. You look phenomenal. You can't train the way you did without those stresses and expect your body to be able to recover and adapt like it did before.

Now, you can expect to maintain a really good level of fitness and to even do really well, but you're going to have to modify your training. You can't train as hard as long. But because you went into it so fit, I don't think you're going to suffer from this huge backslide. The body maintains muscle and strength very well when you've already built it. It's like, you know, the data shows like one fourth to one ninth of the volume of training with with all things being equal is required to keep what you built

which is yeah, which is exceptional. So somebody who works out five days a week, six days a week, they back down to two days a week would probably lose no strength and no muscle. And I wouldn't progress, but they wouldn't lose any. So what that show it with that demonstrates is with someone like yourself, and you wrote in here about the supplements that you take and it looks like you have a good idea with what your diet is, you mentioned in your you're not sure if you're getting one gram of protein per pound of body weight. that'd be a good thing to aim for. But I would say reduce

the intensity and reduce the volume of your training until you get through this challenging time. Otherwise, what's going to happen is you're just going to be spinning your tires in the dirt. And you're not just going to not maintain, you're probably going to go backwards. Because that's a lot, that's a lot on you to have all at the same time. Any idea where the calorie intake is right now? I try to stick when I'm lifting heavier. I try to stick around 15 to 1600 a day. And then what about the other days?

What's when you toggle back and forth? So 15 to 1600 and then do you go down? I typically try you go down? I typically try to go down, yeah. Yeah, so I, okay, so definitely, I would reduce the amount of training volume down to three day week, type of a program,

like a MAPS and a BOLC type program, a symmetry program will be great. And then make sure that you're getting at least 15, 1600 plus calories plus hitting your gram approach. Like those things are going to, we want to, and this would be a good time for you to kind of reverse diet. Ideally, I'd want to slowly increase your calories

and get you closer to 2,000 plus. I definitely wouldn't want to cut and add any more stress on the already, all the stress that you're balancing out right now. It sounds like you're kind of, I think you're doing too much right now. You're working against the body, and I think scaling back is going to serve you much better. Yeah. What did your training look like specifically?

When I did, you currently, or when I, currently, yeah. Uh huh. Currently, I tried to wait lift at least four days a week, push day, a pull day, do some ab days, and then a cardio day, I like to bike sometimes after work or take a walk as well. So I'm, I mean, I'm getting movement five to six days a week and lifting at least three to four days a week. Yeah, don't don't underestimate the impact that stress can have on the body,

especially the the type of if you look at when you look at the data on the most stressful things that the typical person will go through, you're doing two of them at the same time. So there's a lot that's happening right now, and that will massively impact your body's ability to recover and adapt to any kind of stress. So even if you're training now compared to what you were doing, maybe when you were competing and you look at it,

you're like, yeah, it's not that bad, you know? I remember I used to train so hard and push myself. Like your body's already going through a lot. I think scaling down more would be better. I think three days a week of strength training. Right, Dose is gonna be crucial. Yeah, so reducing it down, but then I guess maybe taking like one of those workouts out,

you know, and see how you respond to that. Cause I mean, I was a little bit leaning towards like a Maps 15 maybe is like a, like maybe like produce the actual overall time length. I mean, I'm for that too, I liked that. Yeah, and just because of like Sal's point of so much stress and like really like managing that appropriately, just to give you enough of a stimulus.

So we're responding with our muscles, but at the same time, we're not overwhelming your body with more of this kind of a map. 15 with a nice walk afterwards and increasing the calories would be a beautiful place to be. You'll know what you'll know to share when you do that is you'll just start to feel better. You'll just start to feel a little more energy, feel good, stronger, yeah, to feel better. You'll just start to feel a little more energy, feel good. It's not wrong.

You want it to charge you. Not too many changes physically, but then slowly you'll start to see your body kind of progress a little bit. And you'll be like, wow, this is kind of weird. My body's actually progressing, and I'm doing less. If you want to add anything, if you like to do things that are health and fitness related,

there are things you can do that are more recuperative on the body, things like Yin yoga or slow yoga type of courses on the building. They're not, yeah, our mobility work, it's not gonna beat you up or make you sweat. I know you're laughing because you're problem. I'm in training to become a yoga instructor on top of their computer.

Oh, great. Oh, God. So you know exactly what Yin yoga is and the restorative forms of yoga. If you wanna keep working out that often, and you're taking away strength training, like a nice, slow, inward type of class, like a yoga type of practice,

that would actually, what you're gonna do, think of you have a bucket and you fill it with stress. And once it overflows, that's it. It doesn't matter what you do, it's just gonna be damaging. Well, the right kind of rejuvenating type of activity or practices makes the bucket larger. So now you can have, it's like,

when I get home, I have two little kids, right? So I'll get home and my wife, you know, she wants to pull her hair out. And so she'll leave for 45 minutes to an hour and do something, anything, grocery shop, whatever. She comes back like a totally new person with that little break. It's like she made the bucket larger, right? So I think that would be a good thing. And since you're learning how to do this, this will be the perfect time to apply. Now don't do power yoga, don't do like the, the kite, yeah, do the kite where you, that you know that is like restorative.

That in combination with like maps 15 advanced, I think would be great. And I think it would really keep you in a nice, healthy place. And then when you get through these difficult, challenging times, then you can start to ramp things back up. I do want to creep your calories up, though, okay? I want to go hammer that home. I think your body can support some more calories

in what you're eating right now, and then making that goal of hitting that protein and take every day. Between that and the advice we gave with Mass 15, yoga and walking, I think it's going to put you in a really good place. Yeah. Okay. 15, 15, has it 15 minutes? Yeah.

It'll think about 20 because Sal's saying do the advanced version, the advanced version is about 20, but here's the thing, 20 minutes of lifting, do some either mobility or go for a walk or yoga. So you'll get an hour of exercise. I mean, it's six days a week, but you've got, yeah, six days a week lifting. or go for a walk or yoga. So you'll get an hour of exercise. It's six days a week, but you've got, yeah, six days a week lifting. So six days, you're actually lifting weights, but it's only for about 20 minutes.

And now you're spending more time on inward and recuperative stuff, mobility, yoga, walking. So 20 minutes of good lifting, six days a week, and then complement that with the restorative stuff with a bump in little bit of calories and hitting that protein and take and watch how your body responds. Yeah, I mean, Doug's pulling up your Instagram, I don't know if that's your Instagram or your social media. You look amazing.

Yeah. Oh, thanks guys. Yeah, you look phenomenal, but you can't red line, you can't red line all the time. And with people like you, I love, I love, I love it when people like you take our advice because they're always surprised that not only do they not get at a shape, oftentimes what happens is their body starts to respond again. They improve.

Yeah, they're actually like, wow, this is interesting. I'm getting results and I'm doing less. And it's just because you're not overwhelming your body with too much stress. Well, I love the show. I listen and get snippets of wisdom from you guys all the time. So I appreciate the input 100%.

It will be, it'll be hard for me to scale back to the kind of person I am, but I will take your advice across my heart. Awesome. And you found us through Shaline, right? Yeah, I did. I did. Okay. Yeah. All right heart. Awesome. And you found us through Shaline, right? Yeah, I did Okay, yeah, all right very cool. Yeah, maps it dogs are sent massive Tino or T share. Keep us posted I will. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Take care. Take care

I don't I mean Do you guys you guys remember I mean I brought this up so many times I distinctly remember one my body was under so much stress, that it's like, I remember I'd go to the, I'd work out and I'd be like, I did nothing. And my body can't handle this. And I just, it was so hard for me to get through my own head. Like, yeah.

Like, normally I could do this easy. Yeah, like this would be nothing. What am I just, 20 minutes? It's like, I know. I know, yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. It really, really adds up, man. Well, that'll be the hardest part.

Again, it's the, is the mental heart old to to get through that especially if she came off of just competing not that long ago So you have this mentality which most competitors have more is better ignoring the pain. Yeah, so I work through it like crazy I mean, I also think she's gonna it's it's gonna be important. She gets her calories up I mean she was saying that was she was eating what 15 1600 on a hundred on a heavy day. And then on a low day, she was, she was reducing that. So with the amount of activity and string training she's doing, she definitely needs to get the calories up there and make sure she's hitting that one gram of protein. Our next caller is Austin from Minnesota. What's up, man? How can we help you? Hey, what's up, guys? It's really cool to see you on here. And shout out to Doug, by the way,

for being the solid year, I'll be behind everything. Hey, hey, it's up guys? It's really cool to see on here and shout out to Doug by the way for being the solid year all behind everything. Hey, that's our just Everybody is a dog. He does everything. Yeah, I'm really thankful to get to ask you my question and yeah, it's cool to see your faces. So I want to give a quick shout out specifically to Adam. Adam, you and I have some orange theory history. When I first started in training, when I first went through Nazum, got CPT,

I began that journey at an orange theory in Minnesota, became a head coach there and coached. And it took me about a year before I heard about you guys in 2018 or so. And then I heard the episode, why most group fitness classes suck. Okay. And then I heard the episode, why most group fitness classes suck. And at the heart, I heard it and it hit me deep. And I actually decided to show that to all of my coaches that I was working.

I'm getting that well. And others received it well. And you know what, I think it actually really helped us for the better, especially me. And so, hearing you guys since then, and kind of developing my own practice in training and also for myself, it's been just pivotal. So, first of all, thank you. Just a deep thank you. I think it's changed a lot of the group fitness space, which I'm no longer in, but I think we had at least a little bit of good work in there. So, awesome.

That makes me feel good. Yeah, man. Well, I appreciate you guys. My question has to do with cut. And so I myself, you can see I've never done an intentional cut, at least in the ways that we talk about here in training. I've coached a lot of people through it in my own personal and training practice. And for myself, I've always been a hard gainer. And so going through high school, starting to get into weight training, it's always been difficult for me as an ectomorph to put on muscle and pump weight. And especially going into working in a place like orange theory, I got really good at doing the orange theory

workout over the course of those five years. Last whatever muscle I had to and just became fast basically in the treadmill and on a row of machine. And so since the pandemic, I took it on myself to practice what I preached with booking and with focusing more on string training like I used to do. And I put up some impressive numbers. And my body weight went from 171 ish to right now, I'm hitting about 200 pounds since then.

Well, nice. It's been a slow process. I've been pretty faithful for tracking. And just a little more context. I have a one year old daughter. She's amazing. And since before she was born, decided I wanted to run a marathon, mostly because I wanted to know how to coach somebody through it. If somebody came to me saying, hey, want to maintain strength, what can I do?

If I want to do this endurance race. And so we ran that. When I finished it, looked at my wife and said, this isn't good for you. Like, this is not good. And then just decided I'm just going to put my bees in there and keep going on string training. So all I did to say, I built up a lot.

It was somewhere around 25 pounds gains in standard muscle. I've got some good numbers. I feel proud about my lifts. I'm just programming my own workout in phases and sense then. And so now I'm just interested in going through a cut for I'm not sure how long I want your advice on that too. And also what's a way that I can do it that is just helpful. You know, I don't really have any rhyme or reason to do it

other than I want to be able to help coach people through it when they've also seen some good strength gains, gotten to a place where they're happy and strong and feel healthy. And I feel like Adam, you said in other episodes too, you can sort of show off the works that you've done and I'm building that up. So I'm curious what you think about that. Yeah, this is really cool. And I do think there's a tremendous value in getting, taking yourself, especially as a

coach and a trainer, even after I've already been a trainer for well over a decade, to go into a competitive level of body fat percentage, I think I gained some of the most knowledge in my coaching skills during that process, which was really surprising to me. So I think there's a lot of value in that. Do you know where your current calories are right now? Like, what are we looking at?

Yeah, thanks for that. You know, I think when I had sent this question, I hadn't been tracking at the time. So over the course of the past four weeks or so, I've been tracking mostly to find my maintenance calories. And I'm sitting somewhere between 3,300 calories that main is right now. And I've always had a harder time gaining. So having a higher metabolism, not really surprising at this point, but kind of recognizing that's where I'm starting from.

I have been pretty faithfully tracking protein, specifically, making sure I have my protein target of 200 grams per day, which is my, what was my goal body weight where I'm at now? It's pretty straightforward. Yeah. So there's a question you asked that you wrote in that says, you know, what do you have? What advice you have for first-hand cut? Well the addition of cardio movement, substitute less food intake. Okay, think okay Think of exercise and workouts. That's for health for fitness for performance, strength and endurance, whatever and then diet is for fat loss So if you're trying to get leaner, make it do it through diet.

If you want to improve fitness and performance, do it through exercise. Now of course, there's a crossover there. So what I'm saying isn't black and white, but generally if you follow that advice, then you're gonna be okay. If you do exercise for fat loss, you'll run it, you'll hit some walls real fast.

And if you do workouts, not for fitness, but for the, you're gonna run into, you're gonna hit some walls. So the workouts are for performance, for fitness, for health, diet, for getting leaner. So if you wanna get leaner, especially with your calories being over 3000 at maintenance, it's pretty straightforward.

Just, I would cut your calories, I wouldn't change anything else, be consistent and you should see yourself, especially because you're doing so well. You've done so well with putting on muscle. You know, it says here you estimate you to be around 13 to 15% body fat. I would say getting down to 10%. That's probably six, eight weeks of consistent, you know, nice. Be easily. Easily.

I think even faster than that, because I think you can even faster than that, because I think you're in a really healthy, good place. You've been in a bulk for a while. Uh, you know, there's, there's many ways to do this. Uh, I look how I would do it, uh, considering where you're currently at. I'd run three to four weeks of the cut, cutting about 500 calories a day consistently.

No cardio, no, I'd just straight through training and diet. I'd interrupt that with a week of maintenance to slight surplus and then go right back at it again. So it would be 500 calorie cut. See how you nice you lean out for about three to four weeks. And the way I would decide three to four weeks is if I see my progress stalling for two weeks in a row. It's kind of how I always did it.

Like I didn't like, I want to see myself and give myself like kind of two week windows of, okay, I'm seeing progress, I'm good, so I'll stay the course. Oh wait, I'm not really seeing a lot of progress. Another week with buy, I didn't really see much progress. Okay, let's go back to a maintenance to surplus in a rough the diet. Okay, do that for a week.

Boom, then I'd come back down again. And I just would keep stair stepping it like that. The only way I would introduce any sort of cardio would be like, I'm getting down to at least six or seven percent before that, like all through diet. And then when I would get ready for stage, the final two weeks or so, and because you heard the point salamade, like you could use movement exercise to burn body fat, but it's very quickly you get adapted to that and don't see the results. So I mean, I don't mind two weeks, three weeks tops for utilizing something like that.

I definitely don't do it out the gates. So out the gates, I want to use all manipulation through training and through my food. And then as I get really lean to get that edge, like say, I'm a a week or two out from I'm going on Vegas where I've decided this is the day I'm going to go measure body fat or whatever. And so then I'm going to use that cardio to get me that last push. That's it. Yeah. But I mean, it is pretty straightforward. Go ahead. Would you typically expect to see any strength gained during that time? I'm assuming. No. I mean, no, no. In fact, in fact, you should be really happy if you can hang on and maintain to strength. It's because you're so strong,

I'm looking at your numbers, you know, 320 pound bench press, 450 pounds squat, 405, if you were just starting on lifting, then I'd be like, yeah, you'll probably see some strength gains, but because you're so strong for your body weight, even if you lost no muscle, just the reduction in energy.

And calorie, yeah. Yeah, from the calories if you lost no muscle, just the reduction in energy. And calories, yeah. Yeah, from the calories, you're gonna see, you'll probably see some decreases in strength, not a lot, but you'll probably see something. That's okay, I wouldn't worry too much about it. No. I would worry about it if it gets real, like, oh my God, I feel terrible,

but I wouldn't get too hung up on the numbers. Yeah, you should expect it if you don't. That's like a, you're in the coldly lox. Yeah, you're crushing it if you don't. That's like you're in the goalie lock zone. Yeah, you're crushing. Like, if you actually see yourself, in fact, if you know you're leaning out because you're either measuring or you can see a visual change week over week and you're hanging on to strength, that's a good indicator of like you are like perfectly cutting, you know, just the right amount that you're seeing nice little progress but not so hard and fast that it's really hurting your lifting and so on. So it's rare for that to happen for someone

to. Your strength levels out. I would expect a little bit of a yeah, you should expect it, but if you somehow were able to boy, you're in a really, really nice place and I would stay right there. Yeah, no, and that's helpful to and I know to just in training that we're playing the long game always, right? And so none of this is designed to be happening super quick. And so I'm hoping to be patient with that too. And I'm okay with cuts on some of those numbers. Like I'm not really holding tight. I wanted to do this in a healthy way so that that's how I can help the coach, the people who come with that same mindset, right?

So I appreciate keeping the strength up. And it's more of a curiosity for me at this point. I love that And I and because you you're doing that you're doing that the right way This is also why I don't even mess with the cardio because it'll be more sustainable if you didn't have to use any cardio Yeah Yeah, so if you if you were able preserving if you don't yeah, it's more muscle preserving It's a less work and effort you have to do so if you can do this all through diet manipulation

Then you should be able to maintain it a lot easier and decide how long you want to stay in the single-digit body fat range or go back up. And by the way, after you get here, some of the best workouts and training is going to be after post when you get to. You're down to like 10, 9%, 10%. You get a single-digit body fat.

And then you have mini bulk, you just like, that's the best. So what are you following program wise? We got some, are you following any of our stuff right now? You've been right known to your own. You got something you want to train of ours. You could probably, I'd love to see you do either maps aesthetic, you do symmetry. Yeah.

Well, thanks for asking that. You know, I've been building my own and kind of structuring in different phases, just based on what I've learned from you and with NASA. I mean, I've done like some antibiotic pre-phase, which is a buddy of mine, but I've never ran. But what I'd be curious about is I've been hearing about symmetry because I've done so much in the sagittal plan through these big movements. It's like a lot of powerlifting.

I used to do competitive Olympic weightlifting at different times, getting technically good at movements. I know that where I lack and where I don't want to go to mostly is that unilateral and you know what? You know why this is the perfect program to cut on for you because you're not going to get hung up on any numbers because you're going to be doing unilateral stuff. You have no reference. So you'll be doing stuff that's new anyway. And by the way, this is the time where you might see strength rains. You might start in a cut, start symmetry and see movements

that you're doing unilaterally. Novel stimulus. And watch yourself get stronger. There is a possibility, there's more of a possibility of that than if you stayed in the way you're training and kept your numbers up. But by switching to symmetry and something novel, you might actually see in a cut.

I think you will, just from the skill. Yeah, week four or five, you're stronger than what you were at week one or two, which would be an excellent place to be. So we'll send, we'll send symmetry over to you. Oh, that's exciting. Thank you. And I think it'll be a good growing moment for me. Like you say, we do whatever we, we do all 10 have the things we don't like doing.

And that's probably what we should be doing the most, right? And so practicing what I preach and thank you for that. And thanks for entertaining this question too. I mean this is just such a fun piece of my world. I have a kind of a hard job. I work as a hospital chaplain and doing things like this just being in the gym and setting my own goals for this is a really mindful thing. And so little past like this I call them little but these moments are really fun to entertain

and just to dig deep into it You awesome, right? Thank you, but thanks for what you do, man. Yep. Yep Yeah, absolutely. Thanks you guys so much. I appreciate you. You got it. Take it easy, man That's a hospital chapel. That's what they go to when people are sick and they're a chaplain Yeah, it's like a cat that a Catholic right? Yeah, I had one that came by when I was in the hospital for like 10 days. I'm not familiar. I'm not familiar. I think they're helping the religious side.

Yeah, yeah, just kind of help be there. A lot of times people are in the hospital by themselves. Yeah, so spiritual guidance and pastoral care. So, they represent, I mean, the ones I'm familiar with are typically Catholic and they'll come in and do What's that called Sacrament of the sick or the last rights or whatever they'll come in and they'll do pray you know pray and stuff like that for you So that's a tough job because you're dealing with sick. Yeah, really sick people. No idea Yeah, he's in a good place. He's to be fine. Especially switching to symmetry. Yeah.

I expect him to get stronger from the skill acquisition. I got the conversation went that way because, you know, I didn't expect, I don't expect him to keep his deadlift squat, barbell stuff up like that because he is, he's performing very high level and we're going to cut his calories pretty, pretty low to think that you're going to gain is, is not realistic at all. But if you never train unilateral and the first time he goes to do a unilateral movement, he's gonna be pretty weak because he hasn't trained that way.

Remember, good example, Ben Pollock, right? Yeah, dude. Our buddy could do like 700 pounds on his back on a barbell of school, then he goes to do like 145 lunges and he was all over the place, right? But the beauty of that is there is a possibility for him to see himself get stronger through that program

because it's so novel. So great, great, great. That's a hack that I used to do and I would go on a cut. I'd change it when you got this. Always. Always. I don't know.

Better psychologically. That's right. Our next caller is Eduardo from Utah. Eduardo, what's happening? How can I help you? Hey, what's up everyone? What's up? Good, good.

What's happening? Hey, so real quick, thanks Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good.

Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good.

Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. out for a few months and using a lot of your content as the gold standard. So she's been seeing a lot of good results just from focusing on strength training and I really appreciate that.

Awesome. Great. Cool. So I get into my question, I have some background information too. I'm active duty military as a bond technician and I'm under a lot of stress constantly. I did not realize how much stress I was under for the last six years of my career until now because I'm getting out of the military. I have found it difficult to relax, unwind and be more present slash mindful in the things that I do. This has affected my gains as well as my personal life. I always seem to be in a hurry or look at life as a box to check off every day.

I have been able to progressively overload and gain about 10 tons of muscles since 2020. I'm 6'1", at 185 pounds. Ultimately though, the stress is stifling my recovery and my well-being. I've already been on a nose-phose for media clients for like about a year. I read before bad, I try to dim the lights and I do some stretching every once in a while. What are some techniques you recommend for me so I can fully maximize my recovery by lowering stress? It's crazy because that doesn't seem like that'd be a stressful job at all. It's too big. Yeah, crazy. It's got to be up there like the top five.

It's got to be the most stressful. Yeah, you know, if we look at the data, so it's going to be different from person to person in terms of what's going to affect you in the most positive way. But the data, the data shows sleep is the top. Sleep is the most impactful thing on affecting in a positive way stress And all the things that go along with that right getting sunlight first thing in the morning avoiding stimulants Like caffeine or not having it past let's say noon You're doing the night routine, which is pretty good. That seems it helps. So that's number one with what the data shows. Number two is,

and the data's points in this direction is a spiritual practice. This could be meditation. This could be religion. Some type of a practice, and it's a pro, I see the reason why I say it's a practice is because it's something that needs to be done on a regular basis like exercise. Not easy to just get into it. Yeah, you just can't be like, oh, I'm spiritual. It that needs to be done on a regular basis like extra stuff. It's not easy to just get into it. Yeah, you just can't be like, oh, I'm spiritual. It's got to be like a practice that you do on a regular basis, but basically it's a 40,000 foot view of things.

It's a way to find yourself present. And what it does is it, you know, it doesn't, it's not like your life will change, but the way you view and process life tends to change. But like exercise, this is what I found, the challenge with it is, you know, it's like when I used to train clients, they'd work out for a couple of weeks. I'm like, well, how come I'm not seeing crazy results?

It's like, we got to do it from a little longer. You got to be consistent. It's the same thing with like meditation or any of the spiritual practice. It's a slow process, but then it starts to snowball. And so I'm just letting you know what the data shows, that those are the two biggest, most impactful things We could talk about you know supplements and all that stuff But the data like they didn't even come close to the two things that I just mentioned

Well, you could also I I shared this with you Sal the other day that I was really fastening with this It was a Bible verse and I'm gonna mess it up But I'm gonna give you the point of it Because there was some recent research that came out to support this in regards to when somebody is feeling anxious, one of the best things that you can do to calm the mind down is actually to do gratitude. So they both operate from that place of the brain. And so you can't have one with the other. So if you're feeling anxious and you sit down and you start to write things that you're grateful for in your life, you'll force the brain to shift away

from what it is that's causing you anxious, whether it's work stress going on or whatever it may be. If you shift over to being focused on the things that you're grateful for, it'll force you to come out of that. So if you're not like a religious person or that doesn't sound like something you wanna do, simply doing that alone at night

would probably be a really good practice. And I've done this for a while to test this and it is incredible. It's just before bed. I sit down and I've five things I'm grateful for. And a lot of times I like to try and process something through the day, whether that was something that actually happened

or maybe an over high level thing that my wife and kids or whatever, but I'll just write them down. And writing down about those five things, then shifts my brain over into all that stuff and all of a sudden drifts me away from whatever it was that I was feeling anxious. This could work miracles at night.

Yeah, I think gratitude's amazing. And I think that's something that, I've had to learn how to like, systematically take time out to do that. One thing that I have shared on the show before though, in terms of being able to get into that mindset, become more present, because I struggled a lot with carrying a lot of stress,

continuously and just, you know, sort of buckling, bearing down and, and sort of weathering the storm all the time. Like it was just something like my go-to was to internalize it. And so I don't know if you relate to that at all, but one thing that really helped me was breathing practices, but then taking, you know, something like a cold plunge and applying it. Because for me to sit in cold water, I found out right away that I can't bear down. You can't tense up.

You can't, you know, apply a lot of those same methods that you used to use towards like when you're facing stressful encounters, you have to relax and release. And once you learn how to relax and release, you could sit in there for so much longer. And I guess for me, it was just like a Naha moment where I was like, well, I just need to figure out how to not bear down and to just breathe my way through and find that calm state.

And to be able to find that calm state faster really helped me then to then apply these other practices, you know, later on and figure out how to be more present, how to like, you know, focus on gratitude and do all that. But I needed that sort of like shock and awe of how to, to be able to be more present. It was something I'd love that advice because I had a similar experience with the cold plunge. It, I remember it, the first time we did it,

it shocked the fuck out of me and I couldn't be in there longer than about a minute and got to a place where I could comfortably sit in there for five plus minutes. And that had everything to do with what Justin was saying was being able to relax your body, relax your mind and not tense up, which seems so counter to the initial feeling of that shock

of you wanting to defend and training that system to be able to do that, it is only going to help you in these situations at night. That seems so extreme, but that's what training is about. Training at that extreme level will then allow you to apply it with just simple mental things that are kind of flying in your head that you can't get out of Relaxing shifting your brain over into a gratitude type of focus mindset and then calming yourself down before you bed And then we didn't talk about it in this stuff But of course there's things that could supplement and help like I don't you there's something that did wonders for me I didn't know this until after the fact that I was magnesium deficient over 60% of the population is magnesium deficient.

The mellow that by a med, when I drink that at night, relaxes and calms me down. It's night and day difference for when that. If you're somebody who is deficient of that, you'll notice a difference from something like that. They also have sleep products with droppers that can help before you go there. But I'm glad we started with the other stuff first because I think trying to do it naturally is going to be the biggest rock and help you the most.

And then if you add those other things, like supplementation, chamomile or something at night, Oshwagandas, some of these things like that will help that process too. Yeah, I think the key, regardless of what method you choose, meditation, prayer, you know, whatever practice, it's a different operating system than you used to. So it's not going to feel natural, and it's not going to feel effective until you get better at it. So it's going to be a practice. So in other words,

you're going to suck at it until you start to get better at it. So you have to understand that because I didn't get that. Like, when I would try this stuff, I'm like, this sucks, I don't notice anything. And then I had an instructor tell me, like, would you say that to somebody who just started strength training? That they, they, they, it was hard for them

and he's he's strength gain, they said, well, no, I say they get a practice. Like, it's like, it's why they call it a practice. So, whatever you do, you're literally gonna have to like, okay, gotta do my thing and get into it. And like, well, I don't notice much from it. Let they call it a practice. So whatever you do, you literally gonna have to like, okay, gotta do my thing and get into it and like, well, I don't notice much from it. Let me do it again. Let me do it again.

And then over time, you start to, it starts to become more of an automatic thing that you can tap into. And then you get better at it, like it with any practice. So for the time being, you're gonna have to schedule whatever you're gonna do, you're gonna have to consistently schedule it, whatever the schedule looks like for you, whether it be two days a week, three days a week,

five minutes a day, whatever, and do it regularly, consciously, and it's gonna take a little while before you really start to reap the benefits. Yeah, the funny part is that, and now I get to go home and tell my wife she's right. Yeah. Yeah. Or if you really want to piss her off,

she's gonna love that. If you really want to piss her off, she's gonna love that. If you really want to piss her off, you could present her the information like you heard it for the first time. Oh dude, you know what I think's gonna work? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, she says I do that anyway. She's like, you always only listen to other men

when they tell you things. Yeah. Mine. Okay. Are you married to my wife? Yeah, I was gonna say it. That sounds familiar. That's a very familiar thing.

Yeah. But, but I think guys, I really appreciate it. You got it, man. I was, yeah. That sounds familiar. That's a very familiar thing. Yeah. But, but, but, I think guys, I really appreciate it. You got a man, good luck, okay? I think you luck, Eduardo. I could not imagine a bomb, like going over, if I can do a bomb. Yeah.

I don't even like a jack in the box, like toy. You know what I mean? You can possibly, remember those toys you'd bring in and it'd pop out? I don't even like that. I don't think they're, I mean, I don't know off the top of my head, I can't think of something that would be more stressful from that.

Just the anticipation of the possibility. Yeah, bro. Unless some claustrophobic jaw or something where you're just confined in a tight space, but even then, the potential for something to blow up. Bro, I know my people don't like to be around balloons. Because I don't know what's going to happen. You know what's interesting though is I would, you would think though to do that and to do it consistently and be good at it,

that you would have to kind of learn those skill sets. Yeah, but what happens is he's able to turn it on in extremely stressful situation. So outside of that. So he needs more. Like because the just low level stress, he just like doesn't, it doesn't switch on. It's not the same, bro. It's like, you ever see people who seek out crazy shit

because it makes them feel calm. Like there's athletes that are like that, you know? Well, that's what I mean. I mean that his day-to-day stuff is too low of a stress level that he doesn't switch over into what that that probably can't, he doesn't know how to like, and he's almost like seeking, he's almost seeking something more crazy.

They'd be pretty bombarded. I used to train ER doctors that that's how he focused was in a shit hit the fan. And when they didn't do that, they just couldn't deal with it. So it's a totally different situation. And switching from that to like being a civilian, yeah, that's tough man. That's tough, man. Next caller is Nadine from Texas. Nadine,

what's up, man? How can we help you? It's happening. Well, well, well, if it isn't mind, Paul, one fitness, health and entertainment podcast in the world. Hey, I'm possibly known universe. I know that. I can't use rivers. What's going on in this galaxy? No universe. I've been working out seriously since about 2017. I'm 23 years old, 23 years old right now, and shortly after I started, I found you guys from Bradley Martin. And having no knowledge, I just began lifting heavy and pushing really hard. At the time, I was 17, 18 years old and I was taking some hard cord pre, the kind with the DMAA. And then I messed it around with a little bit of sarms, some carderine MK677 and some Rad

40. Mk677 and some Rad40. I eventually hurt my lower back and my shoulder. I started following your guys' advice and have been treating lifting like a skill and not as torture. I'm next up at 375 on deadlift, 28 on squat to 25 on bench and 135 on overhead press. Good number. Okay. And so I've done the standard RGB and have prime and prime pro. I've started to try and push strength again after all these years of practicing form and

movement. And something always seems to come up where I can't push the weight higher and I feel like I need to go back and correct my form. And I feel it just kind of takes me out of the groove of trying to go heavy and any help will be wonderful. I don't track my protein numbers right now, but I know I'm consuming a lot more than usual and I feel like I've been and I feel like I've been in the maintenance slash building them out. And yeah, I know I need to start tracking numbers at the moment. I've just been kind of writing down my movement for the day and the foods that I'm eating. And I'm six to about 195 pounds weighed when I wake up.

So yeah. Nadim, I got some, I got good news and bad news. So, the bad news is, I mean, you did this at 17 and 18. You did everything backwards. So, you went straight into the crazy, the craziest shit you could buy online. You didn't focus a lot on programming your workouts or really understanding diet.

So, you do it all backwards. So the stuff that you did, you know, might have affected your hormones in a negative way. Who knows? You probably recovered okay, you were so young. DMAA super strong stimulant, not even legal anymore, SARMS. You know, they'll stop testosterone production.

Rad, you know, 140 has been shown to have some pretty toxic effects on the liver and stuff like that. So I hope you're not doing that anymore. But the good news is this, okay, the good news is this, proper workout programming and diet is going to give you better gains than you got with shitty programming and not looking at your diet with storms. So you're going to get better results if you, if you're, if you're better about your diet, you start tracking, and you follow some good workout program. Let's talk about the workout program here for a second.

I know you have our RGB bundle, that's great, but because of what you're saying with some of the injuries and stuff like that in pain, I would go map symmetry. I think you have some stability and some probably right-left imbalances. And I think that that'll be the perfect program for you. Down the address, a lot of those problems. Now diet wise, we gotta start tracking and figure out where you're at. Like I never-

At least the protein. Now I would never try. I don't trust that you said you think you're eating a lot of protein because you have no idea. And you're always gonna be off. I'm off and I've been doing this for a long time. When I start to track, I'm always surprised.

Like, oh, I thought I was eating this and now I'm eating this. So I want you to track, see what you're eating now on a regular basis. If you want to gain, bring it up by about 500 calories. If your body weight is at about 195 and you want to gain 10 pounds of lean body mass, I would say aim for about 205 grams of protein, about 500 calories to 800 calories above what you're eating now or averaging now with a good program like map symmetry, get good sleep, okay, make sure you get really, really good sleep. So prioritize that and you're going to take protein, that would be the one supplement I'd say you take if you don't take it now.

And you're going to see yourself progress better than you did with those other, the other methods that you did before. Yeah, I think symmetry just being novel alone is going to give you some nice new strength gains. This would be different than the traditional barbell back squat bench press overhead press stuff with. So you're going to see some great, some great gains just from that. If there was two, like minimum symmetry and track your protein,

those two things alone, if you looked at like all the advice that Sal's giving you, those are like the track of track your protein, make sure you consistently hit every day, follow symmetry. Every day, yeah, every day. So that's the bare minimum. If you do that alone, I guarantee you're already to see some good results. If you also get detailed, track the calories and make sure you're staying 500 or so above, like you say, I think that's just going to add to that. But the bare minimum, those two things, and I promise you're going to see good results. So, I do kind of have a caveat to the symmetry. I did a, I think it's a Dexoskin where you stand on the little scale thing and

you like hold your arms up. Yeah, and I got the results back and everything was really pretty symmetrical off by just like point whatever person. Like not much at all. No, it doesn't matter. Yeah, it's about the recruitment patterns. Exactly. So the recruitment patterns are what we're looking for, the novice stimulus is what we're looking for. Rarely do you see massive discrepancies with hypertrophy. When you see that, then it's really bad, right? So if I see someone's right to left and the right arm is a quarter inch bigger or half

an inch bigger than a compensate. Now we're like, oh, we're really down the path of an imbalance. But if you were to go do unilateral exercises, you're gonna see a difference between right and left, especially if you always train bilaterally. So really it's more about novel stimulus, it's about central nervous system adaptation and then what that can lead to.

That's why I said symmetry. And also because we see that you followed our RGB bundle, which, except for maybe performance, most of it's bilateral type training. So in the past, I don't know if this has any relevance, but I did break my left collar bone and then on my right hand, I don't know what this bone is called, but they call it a boxy fracture usually. And so I noticed some grip issues with my right hand and sometimes when it's When I grip too tightly it

It just hurts so is that maybe I can strengthen up my my forearms and it shouldn't hurt as much or something like that scale back on the masturbating Stop you stop doing it so aggressive that's how Adam broke his arm. So this is why the stranger method. Yeah, listen, it should start to balance out with the program like symmetry. Unless there's a real issue with the way that you healed, in which case I would do, I would work with a correctional exercise specialist. So, and what can happen sometimes with the boxers fracture is the bones as they fracture, then they kind of overlap and then they heal in this kind of staggered position. And that can cause some issues with grip.

However, when it comes to the hands, the compensations and adaptations are pretty remarkable. I mean, I've seen people with some pretty interesting issues balance out pretty well just through some slow consistent training. So I don't think it'll be that bad of a problem, just based on the fact that you could already work out now. And I think symmetry would address it on its own. But if it doesn't, then I would seek out the help of a specialist,

because then you're talking something really individualized. Okay. All right, well. We'll send you symmetry. All right, thank you. Yeah, stop taking so long. You get, yeah, no, that's my friend and I were too, too gung-ho about it. And we even talked, I know you guys talked about D&P recently. And I just, no, yeah, no, I know, don't ever do that stuff,

but we were talking about it at that young age, and I'm so glad we didn't get into that. That's way too much. That was great. You're good. I was like that at 18. Yeah. Yeah.

One real quick question that I've had is, so I just became a personal trainer with Thurnaasam. And I was wondering if through NCI or whoever else, if there's another certification that you guys would recommend that I start working on. For a person to be a better trainer, and coach, NCI. Oh, NCI, dude.

Okay. And then we're working on something we get coming up. We got things in the future for you for sure. That's right. Roll in, roll NCI and then we got something. Yeah, Doug, maybe we can email him our links because I know we have some discounts and stuff through NCI.

Yeah, look at that, for sure. All right, and the table. Thank you guys. Keep doing what you're doing. You got it, man. All right, brother. Thank you. I specifically, keep doing what you're doing. You got it, man. All right, brother, thank you. I specifically, I remember at that age, I had a friend, bro. I had a man.

I had a experimental face. I had a family friend. He was a bodybuilder, Jack guy, and he told me, literally, he goes, so what you got to do? Lift full body three days a week, eat a lot of protein, get good sleep, and I literally thought, you don't want to tell me what to do. Because you don't hold now on me. And his advice was right, I was so annoying, you don't want to tell me what to do. Because you're holding out on me.

And his advice was right. I was so annoying. But this is exactly the shit that I would do. I'd go take every supplement and it's arms and exist back then. But you better believe I would have bought every star I could at that age. And it's backwards because it's not going to have the impact. I had, I remember this dude, I had a trainer that worked for me. No, sorry, sales got it worked for me, one of the gyms I managed, and he went on the most insane steroid cycle, but his workout and diet sucks so bad that you could barely tell that anything happened.

And he's like, it's fake stuff, it's fake stuff. And this other guy who's on the same stuff he do what he was doing, was very different. What was that? So the pre, it's not a fedra, what was it? DMAA. So that's the stuff they'd make dynamite? No, that's a DMD one. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no know, that's crazy stuff. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to MindPumpFree.com

and check out some of our free fitness guides. They cost nothing, download them all. You can also find all of us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump Justin. I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano, and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy

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