Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2203: The Best Exercises to Build a Thick Back, What to Do When Fat Loss Stalls, Ways for Trainers to Get Clients to Follow Their Advice & More

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, pop, mind, pop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health entertainment podcast in history. This is Mind Pump, right? Today's episode, we answered questions that people asked us on Instagram. But before that, we did an intro portion. This is where we talk about current events and fitness

Starting point is 00:00:28 and scientific studies and talk family life. That intro portion was 60 minutes. After that, we answered the fitness questions. By the way, if you want to skip around your favorite parts, check the show notes. There's timestamps there. Click on the link. It'll take you right to where you want to go.

Starting point is 00:00:41 And if you also want to ask us a question that we can answer on an episode like this, when go to Instagram at my pump media, that's the place to post it. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Viori. They make the best at the leisure where you'll find anywhere. You probably don't know who they are. They're so popular.

Starting point is 00:00:57 We have a 20% off discount link. Go to VioriClothing.com. It's V-U-O-R-I clothing. com forward slash mind pump. So on that link 20% off. The set up is also brought to you by NCI coaching. They make the best fitness coaches in the world. And right now if you go to NCI mind pump dot com forward slash CC dash2024. So, NCI-MinePump.com forward slash CC-2024, you can get an early bird special for coaching column, which is happening April in 2024 in Orlando, Florida. This is where coaches get together.

Starting point is 00:01:39 They have the best speakers, we typically will attend. It's a great place to learn how to become a better coach, learn from the best in the industry, meet other incredible coaches. You have to do this. It's super, super valued. By the way, it's April 3rd to the 6th. Again, it's the Rosen Center Hotel in Orlando, Florida.

Starting point is 00:01:59 Go to that link, get yourself a discount. We also have a sale going on this month. Our beginner strength training program, Maps Resistances half off, and then our correctional exercise program, Maps Prime Pro is also half off. If you're interested, go to MapsFitnessProducts.com and then use the code November 50 for that discount. All right, here comes the show. When it comes to long-term success in fitness, the following is absolutely true. Progress is not linear. It just isn't. It's more of a trend. In other words, sometimes you get better, sometimes

Starting point is 00:02:33 you pause, sometimes you get a little worse. But when you want to look at are the trends, do I overall improve at the end of the year? Am I better than I was at the beginning of the year? If you fall in love with the linear progress, you will over train. You will hurt yourself and you will be disappointed. This one, you know why this is such a challenge? Because when you first start, all progress is linear. Like when you first get started, it's always straight up. And then you plateau and you're like, uh, what am I going to do?

Starting point is 00:03:01 Or if you go back a little bit, right? Like I think about that, like as far as, like if you compare it to the analogy of like working, right? And you got paid a wage and you get paid this nice wage for your job. You put in the work every day, you go to the gym, you do your hour, you go to your job, you work, whatever like that, you get paid this wage consistently.

Starting point is 00:03:18 Then all of a sudden that wage decreases, and decreases, and decreases, and like, how often do you gonna continue to show up to that job. I feel like that's what happens to so many people. You get that initial response of you've made some positive changes nutritionally, you've made some positive changes moving and exercising. The body responds, you drop some weight on the scale, maybe you notice a little bit of firmness in your muscles, getting excited, and then the plateaus start coming.

Starting point is 00:03:43 And then it's finishing return. Yeah, and then what ends up happening, you do more work, and then the platto start coming. And then it's finishing returns. Yeah, and then what ends up happening, you do more work, and then you feel like you get paid even less. And so then that's eventually where people break and they stop going. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with looking at, I mean, I think it's like being taxed. I think it's smart to look at a plateau and say, is there something I can do differently to get the ball moving forward? But once you get to a certain point and you've been doing this for a few years,

Starting point is 00:04:06 it's a step ladder, really. I mean, adding 10 pounds to your deadlift in the first years, I mean, it's guaranteed. I mean, you'll add 10 pounds to your deadlift in the first few weeks. Adding 10 pounds to your deadlift after 10 years is a success. That's like a massive success, right?

Starting point is 00:04:26 So, to your analogy of making money, right? You get your first job flipping burgers at McDonald's, it's pretty easy to get a higher pay by switching jobs and becoming more skilled. But then you start to reach that top and it's much harder to get higher pay after you start to figure things out. But progress with fitness is not this like every time

Starting point is 00:04:44 I touch the weights or I should always expect to be able to handle more volume, handle more load, get stronger. First of all, the context of your life changes all the time. You get older, hormones change, you know, who knows. But also just the body isn't adapt that way. There are limited resources. And you got to kind of figure things out as you continue to progress. And it is a step ladder. It took me a while to accept this. Once I accepted it, like now when I work out, it's not like this huge disappointment if

Starting point is 00:05:18 I'm lifting less weight than I did before. In fact, I expect to not be anywhere near my PR weights most of the time. It's just the way it is. But if I married that philosophy of linear progress, I would be so overtrained and beat up and injured and going down the wrong path, or maybe quit. Maybe I would quit altogether. So that's just the bottom line. With progress and fitness, the reason why it's slow is not because you progress incrementally every month. It's because you go through spurts of progress, spurts of plateau and drops.

Starting point is 00:05:52 But you want to look at the chart. We have to reinforce other areas, other aspects, in order to keep progressing for us. That's true. So you have to address some things that you may have left in the hang in terms of like reinforcing your joint strength and stability, in terms of recoverability. There's a whole host of other factors that contribute towards building muscles.

Starting point is 00:06:19 And it's like, if we're just myapically focused on loading a little bit more weight, and that'd be rad, if I could just add those little fractional weights all the time and like continuously just see progress. I was thinking about this, like, what if it was like linear progress was the move. Like, where do you guys think your PRs would be at this point? Oh, I'm gonna say 14. I'd be benching 5,000, right?

Starting point is 00:06:43 Yeah, we're up in that range. How sick would that be? That would be a, did you guys, did you guys listen to the podcast that was shared in our forum about our message around not doing cardio for weight loss? Did you guys not listen to it? No.

Starting point is 00:06:57 Oh, I listened to it last night. It was actually pretty good. Wait, our podcast? No, no, no, no. Somebody in our forum shared another podcast. Oh, okay. Basically, they were just encouraging us to that, hey, you guys keep fighting the good fight,

Starting point is 00:07:09 your message is finally getting out there that cardio's a terrible. Somebody else is voicing it. So this guy, and maybe by the end of the podcast, Doug can look up on the forum and maybe give him, get his name, we could shout him out, give him some love. He started this podcast and the gist of it from the little

Starting point is 00:07:26 bit that I listened to is he's on a 200 pound weight loss journey and he's been documenting the whole thing and he's already like, he's like two, three years deep into it. Wow. And he found 200 pounds, 200 pounds. So his goal, so I listened to it for a good like half hour. So to get kind of like, get an idea of what like this whole thing was about. And so he set this goal in 2000. And I want to say 20, 2020 or 2021, he set this goal to lose 200 pounds. Then from there, he's going to decide, do I want to try and look more like Bruce Lee or do I want to try and look more like the rock, like decide the body type he wants the

Starting point is 00:08:03 furt and really his, his, his, the reason why I don't know. They make it seem like decide the body type he wants. And really his, the reason why he said, I don't know, they make it seem like it's just an easy choice. Yeah, yeah. In this hand I have this. Well, and he lays out the idea that not so much smaller, more, and really when he is that, when I lose this 200 pounds, I'm not done that I want to continue the journey, right?

Starting point is 00:08:24 So that's kind of his message, right? And so he's been doing this for a while now and been documenting on this podcast. He gets hit with some advertising that says, cardio is a terrible thing for fat loss, what about that? And he says he sees the advertisement and then the advertisement is a pitch for fat loss pills.

Starting point is 00:08:41 So he just dismisses the information. Wait, wait, so they say cardio is a terrible way to lose fat. Yeah, take our pills. Yes. Yes. Hey, hey, I want to say this right now. Cardio's way more effective than fat loss pills. For fat loss.

Starting point is 00:08:53 However bad cardio is for fat loss. Way better than fat loss pills. When the company's always fine, I don't know. I doubt that was so funny, right? Because by the way, that's a good sign. Because they're, it shows out that's us spreading that message. Right, right. So it's like, we've made a debt, right? By the way, that's a good sign because they're able to figure it out. That's us. He's spreading that message. Right, right. So it's like, we've made a debt, right?

Starting point is 00:09:08 There's now marketing around that message. And now even for supplements, right? So anyways, so he goes on to say that. And then he says he finds this podcast referring to Mind Pump. And he goes, and the guys in there are talking about, and he, I guess he listened that same episode. It's actually, it sounded like he didn't say that episode. It sounded like the one where we were talking specifically

Starting point is 00:09:30 to women about why women should go on a bulk. Oh yeah. And because he's like, you know, we really make the case for why you should increase calories and send a signal to build muscle because of what that will do metaphorically for you and how much easier it will be then to lose the weight later and then to also to maintain that.

Starting point is 00:09:47 Why it was really good and why I liked it was, you could tell obviously this is not his field, but it did a real good job of distilling the information that we have laid out there. And it also highlighted for me, how many times we have to repeat this? For that light bulb switch. And he says, in the thing he's talking, and he's like, I've heard this message many times we have to repeat this. For that light bulb switch. And he says, in the thing he's talking,

Starting point is 00:10:06 and he's like, I've heard this message many times, but it wasn't until we put numbers to it and made it explain, listen, you lose 10 pounds, five of its muscle, five pounds of fat. This is what happens to your metabolism. Yes, you're on the scale this much, but you also lost muscle. Therefore your metabolism has gone down.

Starting point is 00:10:24 Now imagine, if I could just add five pounds of muscle to your body, your body now naturally burns, say, 200, 300, 400 more calories a day. And so they said that is what really clicked for him was that math of figuring that out. Which by the way, it was the thing that I brought up the other day of why I get really upset at the fitness space that tries to counter that science.

Starting point is 00:10:42 Because it loses somebody like that. Yes. Because all it takes is that same type of a person who hears us explaining how important it is to build muscle, to speed your metabolism up, and then also then you're gonna get some other science nerd guy who's gonna be like, well, technically, the study is saying this.

Starting point is 00:10:58 And then he goes, oh, the minimal, so that we have dismissed the whole message that we're presenting because maybe you hear this other other fitness person who's talking about it, but I thought, wow. That's awesome. By the way, if you're a coach or a trainer listening right now, let that be a lesson to you, that you can communicate a message that's correct and accurate. But if you don't sell it well, you might as well say nothing.

Starting point is 00:11:23 I mean, the way that we communicate, what we communicate, we literally had to learn through trial and error with our clients. Do you know how many times I've talked about fat loss and muscle building to find out? You mean analogies I've worked through to find the right one? You know, this is why I'm actually more annoyed. I get more upset when I see really smart fitness professionals that are presenting this type of information, science-based information, which is going to be kind of sound kind of crazy.

Starting point is 00:11:53 I'm more empathetic to the dumb trainer who's just trying his way through business, right? And maybe that's because I identified as that. I was a dumb kid who didn't know much. I was trying to figure it out myself, trying to just do my best to give people the best information that I had. I really don't like the ones that are highly educated, lots of certifications, really, really intelligent, and go so deep in the weeds that they end up losing me, because those people have credibility, right?

Starting point is 00:12:17 Because they have this acronym. They have a lot of power for damage. Yes, they have an acronym after their name and or this experience or lots of certifications and then they want to go so deep on the science that you take a person like this who might hear our fuse everybody. That's right. And then hear our message and then hear them try and tout a study that counters that message and then they dismiss it completely and then go back to doing their cardio and it's like, dude, you know how many people you lose trying to be the smarter trainer, fighting with another trainer

Starting point is 00:12:48 and put them down because you have more of an education when really the message that you're presenting is only gonna convolut everything and make it even more serve. You're one of the biggest downfalls of the highly educated or intelligent, these are arrogance, right? I'm so educated that I assume I know the answer.

Starting point is 00:13:11 So everything's absolutely. Right, and now they're, I guess, their benefit is that they do have a lot of information. Now to somebody who's a beginner, doesn't know anything, they already know that they don't know anything. So they're open-minded. Of course, their detriment is they don't know anything, but they know that they don't know anything. Right. So they're open-minded. Of course, they're detriment as they don't know anything, but they know that they don't.

Starting point is 00:13:27 So they tend to be more open-minded. This is why if you talk to martial arts experts, they will tell you it is much easier to teach somebody how to throw a punch or a kick who's never learned than it is to teach someone who's learned how to throw a punch or a kick. Wrong, for years. Bad patterns. Or golf. You talk to a golfing instructor and they'll say, if you've been golfing for years and doing

Starting point is 00:13:51 it wrong for years, it's harder to teach you how to do it right than somebody who knows nothing. It's this pattern that you've developed. It's in it's hard to go back. And so, this was my struggle with really educated trainers when I would hire them. It wasn't that they weren't smart. They obviously weren them. It wasn't that they weren't smart, they obviously were. It wasn't that they weren't hard working, they obviously were, it's that they were not as open-minded.

Starting point is 00:14:10 They said, no, I already know the answer. It's like, you don't, you've never trained anybody. You haven't done this for 10 years. So you don't know everything. You know some stuff, but you don't know everything because you're not open-minded, you're not gonna succeed. And in fact, I hate to say this. I really hate to say this, but it's fucking true.

Starting point is 00:14:28 Talk to any fitness manager or general manager who tends to be the most successful trainers in their gyms. And it tends to not be the most likeable one. It's never the most education. I have so shitty to say, but it's true. I know. It did that for 10 years. I've had at least a lot of eligible trainers work for me at all levels of education all the way up to a PhD and I'll tell you right now, the most successful ones

Starting point is 00:14:50 never were my most educated. I know. I love my most educated and I found later on in my career, you know how I found them. I bet you're the same thing I did. Where I found the most value in my PhD, it was so perfect because they liked hearing themselves talk so much and they want to be smart.

Starting point is 00:15:05 You did exactly what I did. So I would have them teach my less educated trainers and I would pay them. So I would pay them. I would pay them. That's right. I would take my budget and I remember doing this before it was like I didn't have approval with our district to do this. I just figured it out.

Starting point is 00:15:19 I was like, oh my god, here's this hack. If I can get all these trainers sorted up, they're all going to be a little bit smarter, they're all going to get paid more, so they're all likely to stay longer and be better trainers. And these trainers that love being the ones that are most right and the smartest and have all these certs and have these degrees, it's like they're okay with their clients, but they're even better at teaching the trainers. And so it was like just so I would take these uneducated trainers, have the really educated ones teach them. And then, but at the end result, the ones that were less educated, they got the experience from the train, the blue away,

Starting point is 00:15:50 blue away, the ones that were quick, because those ones were so hung up on being right. It's so funny, because the fitness attracts really insecure people. You either get the body image insecure that I like us. I was really insecure about being skinny and stuff like that. And so I had body a little bit of body dysmorphia. That's what drove me to lift weights. Or you get the insecure. I'm not smart enough.

Starting point is 00:16:16 So I got to go, I'm super educated. I'm like, all the sort of, I have every certification. I went through all the degrees. Like I'm always talking about studies. So you have like, and then sometimes you get a blend of both, but it's like it breeds This it attracts it's a bias. It is self-selection by very much so it attracts very very insecure Fitness people it's like politics politics is that self-selection bias for power power hungry narcissists Mm-hmm. You're just gonna attract a lot more of them because of the of the position

Starting point is 00:16:43 And it's cool. Yeah, I know I had, I don't know, I just thought of this. I had a friend, well I read a study, a study, excuse me, a story and I knew somebody who knew this guy. I can't remember his name, but he was a top wrestler and he was super arrogant because everybody he would go against, he beat. So he's like, I'm one of the best, I'm one of the best. I beat everybody, whatever.

Starting point is 00:17:01 He went to Senegal because have you guys ever seen wrestling in Senegal? Have you ever seen these guys? I don't know, maybe Doug, you can look them up. I think I've shown you guys this before. This is not the order of they like slap each other. No, that's that weird sport in India. You see in that?

Starting point is 00:17:14 What is that? I've seen that. They like jump and they jump in the, literally just smack each other in the chat. It doesn't make any sense, but I'm watching it. I have no idea. I have no idea.

Starting point is 00:17:24 I'm just trying to slap each other. Anyway, in Senegal, they have this long tradition of wrestling. I mean, you're talking about, it looks like stadiums full of people watching these dudes and they're monsters. So he went there. I don't remember. Again, I read this story in this guy's, I know that guy. It's true. He went there and he's like a badass wrestler and he got crushed and he became so humble. Like, okay, I need to learn from these guys because these guys are, oh, this guy, this guy I think actually became,

Starting point is 00:17:55 he's in the WWE. These guys are monsters. You should watch some of the wrestling at these guys. I don't think I've seen this before. Oh, they are beasts. Doug, you might even be able to look up just clips of the wrestling of some of these guys. They're, yeah, right there. They're just absolute monsters.

Starting point is 00:18:15 So, yeah, you went over the guys' ass kick and he's like, okay, I guess I'm not one of the best in the world. And then the Indian sport, what is that? I don't know. What would you- What would you- You would point of bringing that up? Oh, but you just humble, you become humble. You're so arrogant, you know?

Starting point is 00:18:29 You walk around thinking you're the shit and you have nothing to learn. Yeah, the worst part about it though, when you get the trainers at our thought level too, because I mean, I was this, this was happened to me, right? So I was promoted by time I was 20 years old, the least experienced, least educated, and just a year before that, I was everybody's

Starting point is 00:18:47 peer. Now I'm your boss, your older, your smarter, and your more experienced. Imagine that dynamic that I had to deal with right on the gates, like, which I'm so blessed that I got put in that situation because boy did I have to figure out, how do I lead a bunch of people who have no respect for me, you know what I'm saying? Who think they're smarter than me? And a lot of them, they're right. They were more educated. They were more experienced and so forth. But there was a reason.

Starting point is 00:19:10 Just trial by trial. There was a reason why I got to that position at that. And I had to find a way to like, okay, which is why I leaned heavy into the business side. Because that's where I was strong. I was strong in my ability to scale and build a business. I wasn't going to get into an argument with my PhD trainer who's got 10 years of experience on me. It's like, and tell him how to train your clients better.

Starting point is 00:19:31 It's like, having for a bit I do that. But what I could do, because what they were terrible at, was actually organizing, building, scaling, breaking down their business. And so I leaned heavy into that direction to support them. Yeah, but even then you were not arrogant. Of course. You know, you're looking at people and trying to learn from it. It's such a superpower, by the way, to be able to do that.

Starting point is 00:19:49 Isn't that a weird thing though, like, the, you're more likely to be humbled in person, right? Like when you're interacting with somebody who actually knows something and, because online, people get this weird perception, like, they're autonomous, or they just become like a crazy narcissist out of nowhere. And we'll try to back themselves up later by researching, you know, I don't know, it's a weird dynamic. Cause like beforehand, we would just like,

Starting point is 00:20:19 resolve a lot of these things. Like, oh, you actually don't know what you're talking about. And then they would be like, oh, no, I can't pull up my phone. Nobody's getting exposed online. You know, it's like you can hide behind, do a mass fluff. Imagine how fucking weird it's going to be just because your point is right. I, you're totally right.

Starting point is 00:20:35 It internet breeds this like this weird narcissist. It's creating more narcissists. And when you're in person, there's this, there's always this checks and balance because one, I can get punked. Like you can literally physically, you could always this checks and balance because one, I can get punked. Literally physically, you could beat me up if I say the wrong thing, possibly. Two, I don't get to say, hold on, let me go Google search

Starting point is 00:20:51 and back my shit up and then go, yeah, I don't have that pause, right? So, but, I mean, when you think of things like future, like neurolink and stuff. When everybody in those all this. Bro, it's gonna bring the internet version, fucking trolled person into real life. They're gonna have the access like that.

Starting point is 00:21:10 Yeah, but everybody's gonna have it. I know, but that's why it's gonna be awful. It's gonna be weird. It's gonna be awful. You know, my fear with that is that we might develop some kind of hive mind. You know, if you look at the way like bees and ants and certain insects behave, it's like there's, there are. Of course, like there's a chemical. Everything will be based off an algorithm.

Starting point is 00:21:30 You'll be right if the data and information you present is just slightly the majority. Yeah. When in reality, there's an individual variance to everything always. Always. And but think of it this way, right? If I want to, and by the way, right now,

Starting point is 00:21:44 it's very powerful compared to how it was 20 years ago, but if I want to Let's say scare the population I would put out some articles on social media and that's very effective. It's very effective It's a reach a lot of people. What if we can hit a button and everybody Receive that instantly. Yeah, now you've got instant reaction right away. It's hive mind. So the control with that will be. I mean, it's the reason why I, I've like obviously you've been listening a long time

Starting point is 00:22:10 you've heard me say it a bunch of times. I'm like keep saying it. Plugged and unplugged. That's right. You want to start to, start to, I, the rebellion. Yeah, I will be the unplugged for sure. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:22:19 I really believe that that will be, and you'll, it'll be a choice. I think people will choose. The unplugged will be like, we're not genetically perfect because everybody else is modified right? We're gonna have like, we don't jump 15 feet in the air. Yeah. Yeah. You know, why do you choose that? Why would you want to be that way? Yeah. Yeah. Just be perfect. No. I think it will separate society that way and I think there's going to be, and I think you already see a bit of that. I just think that it's interesting to see,

Starting point is 00:22:45 you know, I think as Katrina and I were sharing, like, old stories of like, so funny, of all the things her and I are talking about the last day before we see each other, we're talking about dating other people and things like that and people we hooked up with in the past. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:22:58 We're talking about the skin and all that. Yeah, well, it was about flying and she was actually telling a funny story. Like the first time she ever flew to Vegas to come see me and the girl she was sitting next to on the plane happened to have hooked up with me and like it was like, what? Yeah, it's like, I don't know that. Yeah, yeah. How did she find out?

Starting point is 00:23:13 Well, they knew they knew each other. They were friends and knew each other. She wasn't flying there to see you too, actually. No, no, she wasn't. It does. Wait, it was like Friday. When do you see him? Yeah, Saturday.

Starting point is 00:23:22 So we were talking about that. And so like we actually we knew that story, right? Of course, because that was a long time ago in our relationship. And that girl was like five, eight years before her and it was not even a big deal, right? But it brought her, we were in that story came up and I never really told her all about like how we met

Starting point is 00:23:39 and like how I thought about her. So like that, because I didn't think it was necessary. And so we were talking about, I was like, you know, you know, the thing that stands out most about that girl more than anything else, the girl I've dated, I said, we dated or were we talking for about a month or so during the rise of texting. It hadn't been a thing yet, right? It was like, so this is right after the analog type phones. And now the blackberry's the side phone.

Starting point is 00:24:03 Yeah. It was the first girl I'd ever like hung out with, brought her back to my house and we're hanging out, like watching TV talking to them, it was just her and I, right in my condo. And like mid conversation, I'd be talking to her and like she'd be on her phone. And I remember like so being so, like,

Starting point is 00:24:21 oh my God, this is disrespectful. Yeah, I'd never experienced that. And I'd never seen that before at that point. It was like so early on in people doing that, having that behavior. And I remember telling Katrina, I was just like, oh my, I was so turned off by her because it was like so unattractive for this girl to be talking to me.

Starting point is 00:24:38 Stractive. And like talking to somebody else on the phone at the same time. And she was like no big deal about it. And I remember like giving her a second chance, like hanging out with her a second time and the same thing again. I'm like, who is this bitch?

Starting point is 00:24:50 Like, Morgan. Now you had like a nice dinner and you could see somebody just break out and like a TikTok booty dance, like as you're like eating steak. Like it just happens there near the sound. Yeah. I mean, it's become the norm now, right?

Starting point is 00:25:04 Like that's not, that would not be that weird. God, it does breed narcissism, doesn't it? It's insane, dude the fountain. Yeah. I mean, it's become the norm now, right? Like that's not that would not be that weird. God, it does breed narcissism, doesn't it? It's insane, dude. It's everywhere. Isn't that the story of the guy that looked into the reflecting. It's like a pool of lake. Yeah, and then he falls in. Image in the drowns. Yeah, that's the story. That's that's a great now. A famous fable thing. No, no, it's a it's a it's a I think it's a Greek. Is it a Greek legend? Yeah, I think that's where the word comes from. Oh, the guy's name was something. So, so Jonathan. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, interesting. Narcissus. Yeah. So Jonathan Pejale, who breaks down symbolism and he's

Starting point is 00:25:39 fucking brilliant. He talks about it. Yeah. And he talks about the lessons in these stories and how they're it's just ancient wisdom. And he talks about it. And he talks about the lessons in these stories and how it's just ancient wisdom. And he talks about this black, this mirror that you look into that reflects into, how beautiful you are and how you can drown in it. And he's talking about the phone. He's talking about the phone. He actually is redoing snow white.

Starting point is 00:25:57 And so instead of the mirror on the wall, he has it so it's like the hand version of it. So she's actually looking at it just like she'd be looking at. Yes. It's her phone. It's crazy to think when you think back to like always human behavior. Exactly. It's we're we are so not that different. No. Today. No, as much as we want to believe like, oh, we're way smarter. We got way more. We're nothing like we were 200 years ago. Same problems. Like, they are the exact same problems. They've just manifested and they have different mediums. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:29 But it's exact same shit that we were struggling with 200 years ago. Oh, you know, it's just a dumbwier. And it's funny because like, the whole thing is like, if you go in the religious route of like idols and people that like, you know, you build these like statues, or you follow these people that are like, you know, they take you away from your worship. It's like, you see that with celebrities, you see that with like famous sports athletes and stars and like, and we just get pulled so hard

Starting point is 00:26:57 in like these directions or like your Taylor Swifties and like, it's like a cult of its own, you know. And it's interesting. Like that whole dynamic never changed. Like it just created like a new form. Speaking of an annoying dynamic, I sent it to the group. If you could, I don't know if you could pull it up. It's a link to X or Twitter.

Starting point is 00:27:16 I don't know if they still, they call it X. You gotta watch this. What's his name from All in Podcast? Who's the... Jamarista David Sachs. No, the moderators. Oh, Jason. Jason, Jason shared this.

Starting point is 00:27:29 And he posted like, so I want you guys to watch this girl. And listen to it. Oh, I saw it. I saw this. Everyone's sitting this, but it's the girl who's talking about her work week. It's gone viral, everyone. I can't.

Starting point is 00:27:41 I see so many people. I can't. Listen. What she can play about Yeah, you got to watch you got to watch it. I want Doug to pull it. It's gone viral It's like I see like I'd seen at least 10 like big pages. Oh, and I want to talk about what happened online with it Okay, listen to this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, listen to this girl. It's the most annoying thing you've ever heard your life. Oh God I don't want to listen to this. I don't publish being so dramatic and annoying, but this is my first time, like my first time to talk to a doctor college and I am in person and I'm commuting in the city and it takes me to look at forever to get there. There's no way I'm going to get rid of word with her. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, but I'm not. So it literally takes me like, I'm here like,

Starting point is 00:28:25 I go to my friend's 30 and I don't get a loan till like 6, 15, or at least. And like, I don't have time to do anything. I mean, it's like torture, you know? Okay, that's so hard. Yeah, so, yeah, I saw it, so we could talk a lot. So he's like making fun of her like, okay, princess, like relax, right?

Starting point is 00:28:44 So first job at a college, single girl, she has to commute to work and leave a house at 7.30. Oh, she gets back at 6.15, she works five days a week. She's talking about how she has no time, it's the most terrible thing in the world. Now, what's funny about this, so I saw this and I thought to myself, oh, everybody's gonna think this is ridiculous, like shut your face,

Starting point is 00:29:04 like you can, like this is the, like shut your face, like you come, this is the definition of a big baby, okay? Yeah. Now I get you have feelings, that's fine, but when you have feelings and they rule you like this, like you gotta work on that. Here's where I, this is the surprise, so many people reposting it and defending her.

Starting point is 00:29:22 Oh really, I saw all the, I saw it, well, I'm so happy. Well yes, working, I have a bias because I have the pages that I have. No dude, it's like,. Oh, really? Yes. I saw all the, I saw, well, absolutely. Yes, working, I have a bias because I have the pages that I have. No, dude. It's like, oh, yes, working 40 hours a week is hard. You guys stop making fun of her. It's not the way humans should live. You know, nobody likes to commute.

Starting point is 00:29:36 It's really tough. And this and that. I'm like, what is happening? Yeah. What's happening? Well, we're on our way. We're on our way to a lot of these companies are are jumping back to a four day work week, right?

Starting point is 00:29:46 I think a few of them have already transitioned into that now. It's just crazy to me because, first of all, you don't have kids. You're single. You get home at 6.15, you get the weekends off. This is your first job. I mean, not only are you crying about it, which, okay, fine, you're sad about it. It's hard. Maybe it's new, it's new to you,

Starting point is 00:30:05 it's challenging, every step is challenging, I get that. But then you make a video crying into the camera and you post it about how tough it is. Well, that's the part that I, okay, the part that you do that, because here's the thing, we're all guilty of, at one point in our life saying today was hard, or it was a rough week. Right, which now you get praised by the way,

Starting point is 00:30:24 the generation before us would be like, this pussy. Sure, said it was a rough week. Everybody was like, which now you get praised by the way, the generation before us would be like, this pussy said it was a hard day because he worked 10 hours for five days in a row. You're dead, you don't say, and so what you just do there is sarcasm. You do not see amongst a lot of you thing more. Yeah, like, I'm sorry, like they need to be checked.

Starting point is 00:30:42 Yeah. Like they need good friends that are be like, you're being a little baby right now, like'm sorry, like, they need to be checked. You know, like, they need good friends that are gonna be like, you're being a little baby right now. Like, fucking, like, just get it together. That's the part, the level of narcissism and that's crazy is that you, she filmed it. Yeah, you filmed it. And she's crying.

Starting point is 00:30:56 And she's talking about how beautiful life is. And all that stuff, she's literally asking to be, you know, ridiculed. And it's just, and then people, the defender, like, oh, man, listen. I mean, you guys, it's your and then people the defender like oh man listen I mean you guys it's your first job at a college. Yeah, you got a job. I subscribe to that What is the you know good times make weak man weak man make hard time hard times make strong man Yes, I mean by the way when we're on the peak of the week

Starting point is 00:31:22 It's gonna shift back to hard. Everybody's fucked. Yes, I've definitely come home and I'm tired. Oh my God, it works so hard, this and that. And I've had this happen where my dad will be like, you know, when I was younger, when I was working in the gyms, okay, when I was managing gyms, not by the way, 40 hours a week this girl's complaining about, I wish I worked 40 hours a week

Starting point is 00:31:40 when I used to manage gyms. I was in there. I was in there. It was 9am to 9 or 10pm, six or seven days a week. Okay, usually, I did 70 manage gyms. I was in there. I was in there. It was 9am to 9am or 10pm, 6am or 7am. 7am is a week ago. Okay, usually I did 70s with you. Yeah, I did it for most of the time. I did it for a year.

Starting point is 00:31:51 A year straight, I didn't miss a day. Yeah. Now, I would tell my dad, my dad's like, what's the matter? I'd be, oh, I'm so tired. What do you mean? I'm at work at nine, I come home at nine o'clock, I haven't taken a day off. And I remember my dad being like, yeah,

Starting point is 00:32:02 that's a lot of hours he goes, but you're in the, like, what the gym you're walking around you're talking to people you're having fun with your friends You know and I remember him saying that me looking at him knowing where he came from and what he still did Yeah, and it worked I was like you know and it's not that I invalidated myself like oh I shouldn't you know It was more like I could do this. Let me reframe this a little bit like maybe I'm just maybe I'm just being a babe Yeah, it could be worse I could be doing porn cement and then coming back and sleeping with my two brothers and sisters in one bed. Oh, you don't say it are on the floor, right? My dad, you know how long he did this? He would work from 5 a.m.

Starting point is 00:32:36 to 2 p.m. come home, sleep on the couch, go back to work because he had to double, he had to work twice as much to start this is how we started. He'd work from 5 p.m. to 10 p.m. come back home, go to bed and repeat. This is what he did for a long time. So yeah, I get it. Like I get that it's hard for you. There's people though. I'm a is because I probably rail on the millennials the most out of all of us. I'm going to she's not a millennial though. She's to your Gen Z. I don't know what that is. Yeah, Gen Z. The next. The Gen Z. Yeah, it's a Gen Z. It's after Z anyway. Um, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:33:08 Nothing. Z's a lot of letter. I'll show you. We'll start over. Yeah. Yeah. It's start over. I there.

Starting point is 00:33:15 So there is there is a hustle culture happening though between. Yes. So you know, it's really common and over here where we're at is, um, dual jobs, three jobs. There's a lot of people because of the, so many companies give you the flexibility to work from home that I know a lot of people that are actually, I know a handful of people that are actually running two

Starting point is 00:33:36 and three jobs, making good-ass money because they're got like people that actually want to work just so much of the job. Yeah, three 70K- your jobs that they're maintaining by just managing their, when they have their meetings around the other meetings and running three different things. I wonder what that looks like in terms, because like after COVID and everything,

Starting point is 00:33:54 it just seems like the want to work just really dropped off. And in terms of coming back and showing up, and in terms of like there being opportunity versus it, just being trying to figure out how to just, you know, get by without having to go the extra bit. Well, we have some weird times ahead right now, because you see all the strikes that are happening. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:14 Strikes are happening all over the place right now, right? You had the UPS, you had the nurses, you have my buddy just text me, hey, and because his district, the teacher's over in Fresno, Fresno, free more over that direction. Yeah, they went on strike. They're on strike now, like so you got a lot, a lot of these people that have worked during

Starting point is 00:34:33 this, the COVID times, a bus in their tail, inflation's been running and they haven't seen anything. It's so funny, you just said that. I literally had our team post, or they're going to post this meme on my Instagram page. It's a, it's just a funny meme, but it says New York elevator operators in 1945 going on strike. This actually happened, okay. What it did is it caused a mass adoption of automatic elevators, eventually making

Starting point is 00:34:55 their jobs obsolete. Now, what people need to realize about that is automatic elevators would have happened anyway, but what you did is made it happen all the way. A lot faster. And you overestimated your value. Oh, that's. Like when people overestimate their value, things, this is when the ego becomes so big that you just think you're so important.

Starting point is 00:35:15 I feel like anybody who didn't build a company naturally does that. And I'm guilty of this, right? I'm guilty. I remember when, the perspective is so, I was so offended. And which was crazy to me. And here's what's so hard.

Starting point is 00:35:27 And so I get it, and I understand why I built this. When you run a club, your main job is to manage PNLs. So I'm competing against whoever ran that gym before me. And I saw, I can see his or her numbers and what they did. And then I see how I impact it and I'm impacting it by a half a million or a million dollars a year. That's a lot of money and I'm only making one 20 you know say and so man I'm very very valuable in my eyes like I'm I'm 5x valuable to what you pay me so getting a 20 you should give me at least a 20 grand increase

Starting point is 00:36:01 or something right so in your head you think, or they would never let you go. They knew you were leaving, they'd come back and be like, oh, we'll give you double just to stay. And, no, man, when I left, don't let the door hit you on the way out. 10 years in, fucking breaking records and being awesome. You thought they were gonna cry? But I think, for me, it was a real growing up phase

Starting point is 00:36:20 of my life, my late 20s have gone through this process because I, what I recognize and what I definitely realize now having experience of building multiple companies is, you know, your perspective when you're, when you're a key piece to that, like as far as helping the company is one thing, it's a whole nother thing to be the person who took it from zero and built it into something like that. And though, the, and the minds, the effort, the work and stuff like that, like, you're an important cog, but you're also a replaceable cog. And as valuable as I thought I was and how important I thought I was, it's like even the business, even at the business loss,

Starting point is 00:36:54 $200,000 a year, because I'm no longer there. It doesn't matter. It's like saying, keep going. It's like saying general, it's like saying general's in war, a general, oh, it's the soldiers. And it's true, the soldiers are out there doing it. But the general is directing what's happening. Yeah, this is what made some, yes.

Starting point is 00:37:11 And so it's all valuable, but when you overestimate your value, you run into problems. I could not be employed for too long because I understood this, and I think my parents for this, now it's not likely to sat me down and taught me this. But because of where my parents came from,

Starting point is 00:37:28 I understood this right away. So I worked corporate fitness for a few years. And when things were, when I was looking at things and they weren't the way I wanted, and they weren't responding to me the way I wanted them to, I knew like, okay, what's my power? I'm gonna quit, what are they gonna do, cry? They're gonna close the gems down,

Starting point is 00:37:45 now they're gonna keep going. And so I either need to stop complaining or I need to leave and do my own thing. And that's what I did. I left and do my own thing. And that was it. So I'm about to speak into like overestimating or underestimating like so.

Starting point is 00:37:58 I was actually looking into, Everett has, he's gonna be Saramon for Halloween. And so I was looking at the actor who played him and read up and I was like insanely impressed with the skies, like background, like his, the history of what he's done. Like he's played so many different characters, like the Golden,

Starting point is 00:38:21 in the man with the Golden Gun in like, double of seven. Oh crap. He's been count. Dooku. He's been like a whole host of like all these actors. Yeah. Yeah. And he also was like an intelligence officer for the Royal Air Force and did like real like in, I don't know if it's World War II, but like later on, but he definitely was a, has like a whole host of like military, like spy type of, of resume for, he's like the real life, like 007. And it's just this, it's Chris. Also, he is like

Starting point is 00:39:00 an opera singer and had a metal band. Okay, that's not fair anymore. Yeah. It's like a sick metal band. I'm like, who is this? So anyway, I had no metal band. Okay, that's not fair anymore. Yeah, if it's like a sick metal band, I'm like, who is this? So anyway, I had no idea. And like there's just people like that and just walking among us. So you're like, dude, this guy is insane. You ever meet someone like that in person?

Starting point is 00:39:15 You're where you meet someone in person and you already respect it. So I had a client who was a surgeon and he was well respected surgeon. So he was like a very smart, badass, very well-known kind of guy. And then I get to know him and oh, oh, you played D1 football?

Starting point is 00:39:31 Oh, okay, Jesus Christ. All right, smart and super athletic back in the day. That's pretty cool. And then I get to know him a little better. Oh, you know, what do you like to do for fun? Oh, I'm a classically trained pianist. What? Wait, wait, wait, you actually have the time to go. We didn't even told you otherwise, but just does that. Yeah, oh wow, classically trained pianist. What? What? Wait, wait, you actually

Starting point is 00:39:45 had the time. We told you otherwise, but just does. Yeah. Oh, wow. You had the time to do that. That's crazy. And then I found out, Oh, you, you, you went in the languages. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, the language people. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, you also went and got in learned physics for fun. It's not even has nothing to do with your field. But you went and got a degree. I remember I was, I've talked to this guy, and I was like, all right bro, I have, you know I have a cousin like that, I have a little cousin.

Starting point is 00:40:10 Who is? You have to like that. He just, one of the most special people I've ever met in my entire life. So he's a young kid, he's a, you know, he's young teen. He plays multiple instruments. On his own, he goes to care homes with elderly. So how many 14-year-olds know that you know,

Starting point is 00:40:29 this is what they wanna do. They wanna go and play music for older people and talk with them. He's in the family if there's ever a problem, he'll come to you, talk. Like he's so wise. Where's his kid come from? He gets hella good grades.

Starting point is 00:40:43 On his for fun, as other hobbies are horticulture. He's constructing a muscle car. And I mean, understands how to weld and do all the stuff. Wow, 14. Yeah, bro, I every time I talk to him. He's the have like a whole like busload of kids. Oh, we're like, we gotta like, he's devoutly turned this upside down.

Starting point is 00:41:03 He's devoutly Catholic, but what I mean by that is like in a genuine way, where he's like, we gotta like, he's devoutly turned this upside down. He's devoutly Catholic, but what I mean by that is like in a genuine way where he's like, just kind, like he wouldn't come up to you in preach, right? But you meet him and he's like, 14 roles, we're always, all 14 roles have, yes he's mom and dad should get a award bro. Oh God, well I know, I'm, I talked to him.

Starting point is 00:41:21 That doesn't magically just happen to him. Hit my aunt, that's good, parents. I tell my aunt Uncle all the time like this kid. I don't know. Yeah, the most special to me that's a good reflection of a parent. Oh, it's a good, really good job. It's crazy.

Starting point is 00:41:32 You know, back to the, I didn't want to leave the conversation around the technology. You brought up something that it was on my list of things I wanted to bring up anyways, talking about the elevator operators like basically, you know, making the mistake of overvaluing themselves and then all they did was force the hand of The business owners to push technology to you know replace them replace them. Yeah, so have you guys seen? The AI tool that's used in Starbucks. I don't know of all of them

Starting point is 00:41:57 I don't think all of them are doing this because I tried to Google it right now to see if I could find other ones Actually couldn't find it, but I saw this already the The AI tool on the camera of the Starbucks baristas. So is it like your short recognition, right? No, you sent it. Yeah, I think I did send it to you. Oh, this is messed up. No, I don't know. So what it does, okay.

Starting point is 00:42:15 So the cameras in Starbucks can see everything, right? So people are fastening with that. So that's normal. But this AI tool is designed to track the employees and how many cups they serve. Their productivity. Their productivity. And it's like so alarming.

Starting point is 00:42:30 You can see like in like two hours time, Sarah did three cups, Tommy did 22 cups, Susan did 17 cups. So like imagine being able to manage your staff that way, like raise for Johnny, Susan, race for Johnny, Susan, fired, and then get your production up, Karen, I mean, how crazy is that? You know what's interesting about that, Adam?

Starting point is 00:42:52 And imagine that tool in almost any work, we're totally, you know, to be able to measure. You know what's interesting about the manager AI? You know what's interesting about that is, I could see managers make mistakes with that. Of course. Yeah, and what I mean by that is, they, that's what they value. Yeah, they'll just value that. Although Susan see managers make mistakes with that. Of course. Yeah, and what I mean by that is they,

Starting point is 00:43:05 that's what they value. Yeah, they'll just value that. Although Susan might only make three cups. Man, the customer's cup. Those aren't coming back. The staff loves her. So here's everybody's like, so she's wonderful.

Starting point is 00:43:14 I do want to be awesome because and I've shared with you guys before, the most impactful book I ever read, it's a day read, it's one minute manager. It shifted the way that I led and I wish I found that book earlier in my career. And the secret to that was actually not looking at the people that were doing shitty and underpouring,

Starting point is 00:43:30 but making sure you pointed out Tommy who's doing 22 cups. And praising and recognizing him in front of his peers. And giving him that would motivate the other ones to want to step up. And then of course there's gonna be shit butts that aren't gonna do anything. And those are the ones you need want to step up. And then of course there's gonna be shit butts that aren't gonna do anything, and those are the ones you need to weed out anyways.

Starting point is 00:43:47 But most people see that, they seek that, they want that type of... Elevate their game. And it elevates them at versus, which is what, and to your point, what most shitty managers will do, because we don't do a good job of teaching leaders to be leaders,

Starting point is 00:44:01 is we go over and be like, Susan, you're only doing three cups. If you keep that up, you're going to be fired. You need to be more like Tommy who does 20 cups, which is the wrong way to do it. The right way to do it would be to go praise Tommy and recognize him. One of the first lessons I learned as a manager from my mentor was you praise in public, you reprimand in private. Shitty managers literally always do the opposite.

Starting point is 00:44:22 Anybody watching this who has a shitty boss will tell you, oh yeah, in a meeting, they'll talk down to somebody. And then when they do something well, it's in private, hey, wait, wait, no, you did a really good job. It's not nearly as impactful, it's all about the peers. By the way, here's a little hack for managers. And you don't have to spend as much money getting them a gift or whatever

Starting point is 00:44:42 because all you gotta do is say that they did a good job among their peers. They value that way more than a $50 gift card to Starbucks that you give them privately. That's not nearly as important or impactful. So anyway, people watch you right now, probably wonder why I look so comfortable. Um, we're about to get on a plane.

Starting point is 00:44:58 But you know, we talk a lot about Viori's like nice looking at leisure wear, the kind you go out with. We don't talk enough about their us leisure wear that is just comfortable. So you're wearing like this is just. What are the ones W and I always wear? Cause I pack those in my carry on.

Starting point is 00:45:14 They're really fine. Nice ones. Cause I'm gonna switch it to those. Yeah, I'm not sure the name of these. But they're super. Yeah, you're wearing them right now. You're wearing them right now too. They're not though.

Starting point is 00:45:22 These are comfortable. You're wearing them, but I packed. My legs are literally too. They're not though, these are comfortable, you're wearing them. But I packed. I literally packed those in my carry on so I can actually switch into them and like. We don't talk enough about it because we, you know, typically we're on the show, we go out and do things, so I always wear the nicer, like, you know,

Starting point is 00:45:35 stuff you wanna go out in, Viori. But at home, I have so much of the, like, oh man, you put on this stuff and you just, you just feel so nice. That's some really good stuff. Look them up, Doug, and see if you can find which ones are why we're talking. But also why we're talking about partners and you're talking about trainers and being better leaders and stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:45:53 NCIs is one of the things that, you know, why I really, really appreciate the work that Jason Phillips is doing with the coaches and trainers out there because they do this. Yeah, they do this. They do a really good job. And I love that. So we get the opportunity to meet with quite a few of them every week or biweekly on our Wednesday calls. And you know, you got all these other fitness leaders.

Starting point is 00:46:15 And these are the type of conversations that we have about leading their team, talking to your client, leading your clients, which is all this stuff. And like, even like the early conversation that we're talking about, not being that trainer who's over educating your client or you're losing them in the weeds, just touting studies, like giving them knowing what your desired outcome is into the application process.

Starting point is 00:46:35 They teach you how to coach. Yeah. There's a very big difference between learning information. That's pertinent to coaching, that's important too, and then learning how to coach. Two very different things, NCI doesn't know. Well, because we always have to remember is, and I love, like, I remember that was one of the first big lessons I got from my mentor was like, desired outcome. And he would like, he would always challenge me that way, no matter what, like, if I was frustrated with a staff member,

Starting point is 00:47:02 like, someone who worked for me and I was like, I'm ready to fire him, I'd call him up, and I always before I did anything, like, like, rash or quick, I would call him up and just invent to him. And he'd always let me go, and then the next thing he'd say, he'd say, well, what's your desire to come? And I'd be like, ah, what do you mean? I mean, what do you want to come from this?

Starting point is 00:47:19 What is your, what would be the perfect situation? Before he gives you advice, right? Yeah, before he gives me advice, he said, what do you want to happen? And then I'd have to really think about that like because emotionally I'm like I want a fire on you know say but then I also know that I got to hire someone else to replace that I'm gonna have to take on all those clients You know say and then downstream of and he's like okay

Starting point is 00:47:35 I mean if that's what you want to do then go fire the fucker, you know what I'm saying they did this they did that they deserve that Or do you just want them to be it? Do you want them to be a better trainer? Well, yeah, of course. I want them to be better at their job. Okay, well then do you think that going and lighting them up over this is the best path to that? And I thought, okay, you're right, it's not. And I love that because I've applied that in my relationship, in life, right? With my relationships with my peers,

Starting point is 00:47:57 my relationship with my wife, like we get, we act so emotionally and we wanna react to things. And if you can just pause for a second, go, okay, what is my true desired outcome? And a lot of times when you're, especially when you're talking about your spouse and some of that, you're like, well,

Starting point is 00:48:10 I really want my husband to put, pick his clothes up off the floor. Okay, well, if going over there and pointing it out and scolding him, do you think that's gonna get your desired outcome? Or do you think there's a better way to do it? Well, what is the best way to possibly do it? Think about that, like, I. I mean, that tool was

Starting point is 00:48:25 it. Jordan Peterson says, like, he talks about marriage and he says, do you want to win? Or do you want to like work together? And he's like, because sometimes you win and you end up, yeah, you won. Good job. You ever seen those memes with a guy he's sleeping outside on a mattress like out in the driveway. And he's like, I finally won an argument. Why, why? You know, it's like, is it worth it? Yeah. Like, did you really win? You won, but now what? Like, now you guys hate each other. What is it called? Oh, those are all them.

Starting point is 00:48:47 So I have the, was I say, fleet joggers. And there's also the core jogger. I think you have the core. The core jogger. Yeah, they're good, dude. They're all, I mean, they're so lightweight and comfortable. Dude, I can't, I can't, you guys know, I don't sleep with any clothes when I sleep.

Starting point is 00:49:03 Those pants are so comfortable, I can sleep in those that's why you're bringing them because you're sure Oh, you're not sharing a room now you can sleep in my Yeah, I'm sure Yeah, oh finally sleep in my pod Justin but that's why you're wearing a mask by the way I don't see Adam pill over it everything Everything lock it out dude you got you just reminding me of something I just read something and I tried to verify it was true. I think it's real. I think it's real.

Starting point is 00:49:25 Because I did verify it, but I can't believe it. I can't believe it. So listen to this, ready for this? Yeah. We were just talking about how these whiny babies and this and that and help kid, like these generations, each generation gets whatever crazier.

Starting point is 00:49:41 Yeah. If this doesn't define the insanity, I don't know what does. Students at the University of Augsburg, this is in Germany, have called for, ready for this, handicap accessible glory hole. I saw that. Is that real? It's all on the campus.

Starting point is 00:49:58 Siding diversification. The students argued that having spaces for anonymous sex would ensure the safety of queer students. I don't know why this is a quick handicap. Yeah, yeah. So, so, so, yeah, which all, what's begs the question, do they already have glory holes? Yeah, exactly. Like, are there glory holes, but just not hanging? I can't reach this one.

Starting point is 00:50:19 You can't just wheel up to it. Yeah, and then they have a picture of, of, of, of one of them. And it's like a professionally made, I can't believe this. It's not like a jewelry hole. Did you make sure you did your snopes or what? You know what? Doug, look this up. Please, because you could be getting this.

Starting point is 00:50:35 If this is real, that feeling that we're in a hotel to university. If I read something online, even the AI thing, I ride away, go try and fact check, because it's like nothing is, it's like a 50, 50 shot now. This is, this is, this is not true. I hope it's not real. If it's not real, I'll be happy. It's, so the University of AUGS, B-U-R-G,

Starting point is 00:50:56 and then put handicap accessible glory holes. And then we need to click on images, Doug, not a lot. Morgh, glory holes. No, don't do that. I mean, it seems like it might be real. Fuck. Are you serious? Are you serious?

Starting point is 00:51:09 Yeah. We have broken the simulation, for sure. OK, like OK, maybe you're just a weirdo or whatever. You got your weird kink or whatever fine. Keep it yourself. But enough of these students got together and they said, let's go tell the administration. Let's go bring this up with the school. And let's fight for it.

Starting point is 00:51:27 Vacuum here's your glowy hall. Yeah. Andrew, is your mic going over there? No. Are you off? What's up? Do you watch? Are you in the soccer at all or no? Do you? Are you paying attention to like messy and everything like that coming over? Did you guys? Did I tell you guys already to watch that that little docu series on him? Yeah, you did. I mean, it's really good. You got me as far as David Beckham. Did you watch that one?

Starting point is 00:51:49 Yeah, yeah, I watched it. It was good, wasn't it? Like did a lot. You know what's happening. So you know that he's become you trying to pull me into the sock, dude, I'm resistant of it. Trust me, I'm really out. But it's happening, but it's slowly happening.

Starting point is 00:51:59 Like, you know, and I'm at least curious, the David Beckham thing. Good, we have a user in our ass. I know you know that. You know that he, you know internet. So you know that he started the Florida team, right? Yes. And you know his big pull was he went and got messy. So now messy, the best soccer player in the world now plays in the US, okay, for Florida for David Beckham. So you should watch yourself.

Starting point is 00:52:20 The reason why I'm bringing up messy though is nothing to do with actually soccer is did you see his car that he just bought? Look up, Messi's new family car to travel. So, M-E-S-S-I-D. Is it Messier? Is that A? Oh, I Messier.

Starting point is 00:52:35 I think it's Messier. Oh, that's all I've always heard it. Oh, I always heard it. Messier. No. I mean, depends where you're in the world. You're trying to be fans. Tell me if you can,

Starting point is 00:52:43 did you see it? I'll search it up a little bit. Look at Fart. Yeah. What is it? You got a family, it's not, there's two in the world. It's like a Bugatti version of like a mini van. What? Yes.

Starting point is 00:52:53 You have to see this thing. Why? I never even, well, he's a big, you don't want to be late taking the kids to school. He's a big car enthusiast. No, it's for them to travel all over Florida. So it's like, if you do, Andrew, you probably beat Doug already, didn't you? Did you beat Doug? Oh, wow. He has a lot of cars. No, did you put the word messy family? If put the mini, uh, mini body, right? Yes, say, no, no, don't

Starting point is 00:53:16 put the body. I said it's like that. I didn't say it. I'll say put, uh, messy mini van, mini, luxury mini van watch, but it'll probably try. For the audience that's listening, I'll have it, I'll get it for the, for the YouTube audience so they'll get to see it. I can't believe we can't find it that easy. I have it in my thread because I sent it, I sent it over to you guys. It's the craziest. It literally looks like a Bugatti meets a sprinter van.

Starting point is 00:53:42 Oh. And it's, I, it's got to be worth millions of dollars. Like a Bugatti got a sprinter van. Oh. And it's, I, it's gotta be worth millions of dollars. Like a Bugatti got drunk at the bar. Yes. And everybody was leaving and he's like, Well, I've never been with a van. What do you guys think are the most profitable car companies? Profitable car companies?

Starting point is 00:53:59 Yeah, one of the most, what are the most? So Tesla is, Tesla. Yeah, do you know how many cars they sold last year? No. 350,000. Wow. Okay, so they're one of the, they're not the most profitable. There's one ahead of them, by the way.

Starting point is 00:54:12 They're the second most profitable. Really? Yeah, you know, is above them. So 350,000 cars, you know, is above them, their margins are like 17. Now this is profitable, profitable, not total volume. Yeah, because Ford's up there,

Starting point is 00:54:23 because they do more volume than Ford. You're talking about margins, yes, it's car, I mean. Tesla is the best margin, you know that? Yeah, because Ford's up there because they do more volume. Yeah, for your time on margins. Yes, it's margin. Tesla is the best margin, you know that? Yeah, they are the best. But that's because they created so much of the most important. So most cars, the margins are actually way thinner than you would think.

Starting point is 00:54:34 You guys only know like three to 10%. It's like a supplement company. Oh, wow. Like three to 10% are the profit margins on the average car. Tesla's around 17%. Number one. Who? Yes? So, worry.

Starting point is 00:54:46 Oh, of course. Okay, Tesla does, 300, did 354,000 cars last year. Ferrari. How many? 13,000. Crazy, right? Yeah, did.

Starting point is 00:54:57 Well, they do such a good, they're like DeBeer's diamonds. Like, they do such a good job of freaking their, controlling their handmade. I mean, Tesla's factory mass produced. They're not trying to sell a lot. Yeah. If they did, they would. That's what I've of streaking their hand made. I mean, Teslas factory mass produced. They're not trying to sell a lot. If they did, they would've won. That's one of actually the critiques.

Starting point is 00:55:09 Andrew, did you ever tell me that? So you have a Tesla. So the one critique, I know everybody's a Tesla person, loves their Teslas, but the one critique I've heard. There's too many of them. No, is that the craftsmanship, like the lines of the trunk aren't always lined up. Really? Yeah. A buddy who owns a couple of them,

Starting point is 00:55:26 you're basically just paying for the tech of the car. Besides that, it's nice and it's modern and it's minimal, but there's much more luxurious cars. Oh, of course. I mean, what's your take now that you've been a Tesla owner for a while now, are you a huge fan? It's not significantly better than what you would get for other cars in terms of the interior for like the same price anywhere between 30 to $60,000

Starting point is 00:55:51 and like the model Y, the one that I had. But which like the convenient part about it is just the tech, just the driving and like the highway. By the way, a lot of people on this, this is what's so incredible about what you're saying. The price of a Tesla has come down significantly of the same model over the years. Oh, I didn't know that. So their margins are huge, they haven't cut into the margins.

Starting point is 00:56:18 If you look at the price of the... Way more economical. Oh, the price of the original Tesla, that same model is getting cheaper and cheaper. I wish I would have known that. That was his goal. I wish I would have known that stat. I actually, for some reason, I thought Tesla wasn't profitable.

Starting point is 00:56:31 I didn't think they were. I thought they were always like, I thought they were like, he was constantly pouring money into it. They were one of the only ones that didn't get a bail out, right? No. Correct. Yeah. To think that the average car is three to 10% and he's pulling 17% for

Starting point is 00:56:46 R.E.s 24, but to be pulling 17% margins on that is incredible. That's a thing. I mean, if the market is three to 10 and you're at double, I mean, that's like, that's like, and and and I rivaling some of the biggest producers as far as how many because that like four they're all up there. I want to say three 50 to 400,000 is like the top producers Maybe dunk from fact checking on who sells the most cars. I think Honda toy. I think Toyota this is such a tough market And he's funny to see that like Apple just completely like has like

Starting point is 00:57:17 Oh, it's coming Apple car is coming pushing it out pushing it out pushing it out and I'm like I wonder if they're actually You know why you know why though because Apple is so flush with cash Yeah, like why would the internet like a terrible it's like us going into sub It is Great analogy. So I know you're gonna go there It is just like my Terrible mark I'm gonna call out to the fans

Starting point is 00:57:42 I want you to flood these guys. That was a great transition right there. I love these guys. We don't do supplements. Say hey, let's sell, start a supplement. So cash handy. We need to make a supplement. I promise you, listen, I'm gonna talk to the fans. You guys, quite.

Starting point is 00:57:54 I promise you guys, I promise you, I will bring you supplements. Borderline illegal. They're gonna hit the craziest ones you've ever seen. Wow, 10 million people. Send me to South America and the Amazon. 10 million. That's Toyota, right America and the Amazon. 10 million dollars. That's Toyota, right? You go G-Bat.

Starting point is 00:58:07 It's crazy. Hey, I want to say something real quick. A study is, I have to mention this, because we're going to be gone. A study circulating and people are trying to tie, like, oh, meat consumption, potentially bad for you. This might show that meat is, yeah, okay. So here's what I want to say about studies

Starting point is 00:58:25 on meat studies on whole eggs did this for a while and anything that's full fat like full fat dairy because of the decades not years but decades of the narrative that meat is bad for you because it's now been since the 80s we've been told that red meat is getting is bad for you saturated saturated fats, unhealthy, avoid red meat, eat white meat or fish or whatever. Don't eat meat. That what we've now developed because of that propaganda is the decades of that propaganda has created an unhealthy user bias. What that means is that when you look at just population wide, the people that eat the most meat are people who disregard

Starting point is 00:59:06 health because they've ignored all that information. And if you look at people who avoid red meat, you have a healthy user bias. These are all people who try to be healthy. So there's lots of other things that they do that are healthy. So when you look at the best studies on meat, natural red meat, not processed, you find it's healthy. So I want to say that real quick. Well, you have created this by great comparison to that is the old school smoking and coffee one.

Starting point is 00:59:31 Yeah. Right. Coffee causes cancer because they never control for smoking. Yes. And we found out that a lot of people who drink coffee the more you know smoke cigarettes with them and they didn't control for that. So it's a good example of like how there's a major bias of people that are on a diet versus people who don't give a fuck. Because of the thousands of years humans have lived off of meat solely.

Starting point is 00:59:51 And not just not just me and how are you going to try and like pitch to me that it's been harmful? Not just me. Red meat. Yeah, exactly. Red meat. They weren't hunting chickens. Total bullshit. I feel like every one of these kids that think this way should you just have to watch the show alone. Just watch it. Just watch one season. One season of it and ask yourself. No other food you can eat and still be okay. We live in so by the way, like people are like, oh, lean me. Eat lean me. Do you know what happened? You know that you'll starve? Yes. That's why I say watch alone. It's such a good you eat a bunch of Rappers educational and you're not understanding how our body operates on like real whole foods and what types of nutrition It's seeking and it needs and like if you wanted to survive what you need to go find and yes fish and white white Need to die blame the fact that everybody's so removed from the process of actually getting food. Yeah, and in Hunting for it,

Starting point is 01:00:45 or like doing what you have to do in order to, you know, get that kind of nourishment. It's like everything's so readily available. We just listen to the marketers tell us where to go next. Yep, totally. All right, so the shout out, did you wanna do the shout out, Adam? With the,

Starting point is 01:01:00 Well, what was I just talking about? Oh, God, you mentioned someone. All right, Mark. I got a guy. He's a Iron Warner. Well, that's the test that a guy. He's like a deep fake guy who does like everything from Arnold over everything. So dude, so funny. He's really good.

Starting point is 01:01:12 Yeah, he's really good. No, you had mentioned someone else earlier on the podcast. I did, I don't remember what it was. So we're talking about. Brand Monarch at his then. Next time. Oh, was the documentary at the time?

Starting point is 01:01:20 Yes, yeah, yeah. Try, we'll do another one. Nutressense is a company that pairs glucose monitors, CGMs, okay? So you wear this on your arm and it monitors your glucose in real time. It pairs that with nutrition experts. In other words, you'll get nutrition coaching who also uses your CGM to tailor and individualize your diet. Nobody else does this, but NutriCensens. It's incredible. It's effective.

Starting point is 01:01:46 It's one of the most effective strategies I've seen in my entire career. So if you want to get leaner, get more fit, you want an individualized approach. Literally, that's measuring your glucose and working with a nutrition expert. Go to Neutracens.io-minepump. Neutracens is spelled in U-T, R-I-S-E-N-S-E, use the code mine pumping, get yourself a discount. All right, back to the show. First question is from Eric Dwayne. Yes, what techniques or exercises will help with back thickness? I have good width, but lack that 3D look.

Starting point is 01:02:19 Dead lift, dead lift. Dead lift. I love this question because there's controversy around this. For some weird reason, there's still fitness dorks out there that don't think dead lefting bill to back. And this is exactly like, okay, so I got nine, I think nine years under my belt. Can you please find that before and after? No, it's so old now.

Starting point is 01:02:41 Can you please find it? It is the most profound, like, and you went from, it wasn't like a beginner to, you'd already been lifting forever. You're already a pro. The difference in your back from not dead lifting to dead lifting. In fact, I think you eliminated most extra stuff. Everything, Italy.

Starting point is 01:02:55 All I did. So it's so crazy. The audience has listened for a long time. It's probably heard the story and they're over it or whatever. But for the people that I haven't heard this story, when we all met and got together, my history of lifting was very, very bodybuilder-esque, and I'd rarely ever squatted and dead. I never deadlifted, and I rarely squatted.

Starting point is 01:03:14 Intermittently, I squatted. I was definitely leg-pressed, lunge guy, all that shit. And when we all got together, Sal was a really, really strong deadlifter. And I had never said, you know what, let's see if I can get my deadlift up and see if I actually improves my back. And literally not actually fully adopting this philosophy until this point.

Starting point is 01:03:37 And all I cared about at that point was, I'm gonna try and get up to as much way to see what was in it. At that time, I started, I was only able to deadlift like 225 pounds over a course of a year. I worked all the way up to 550 now keep in mind I hadn't really deadlifted at all so that the gains like that are unprecedented, right and so the new movement for you You already had a ton of muscle. Yes, and I would I had a good physique a real wide back I'd already been competing once I'm sure I'll be went from 225 to like 400 real fast I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like,

Starting point is 01:04:05 I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like,

Starting point is 01:04:13 I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like,

Starting point is 01:04:21 I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was looking, I was always wide. I had small waist, I had big lats, and so I had this wide back, but it wasn't deep 3D, whatever look, and it was the deadlifting that completely thick. And I got wider and thicker from deadlifting.

Starting point is 01:04:37 Yeah, the width of the back comes from the lats. The thickness is the erector spinae, the rhomboids, the lower emid trapezius. And there's a lot of muscles in the back, but those are the ones that are really gonna give you that thick look. Now, I understand aesthetics, so bodybuilding definitely made back with like a big thing.

Starting point is 01:04:59 Like it was all, it was like, oh, you know, you go up there and you oppose called a latsbred, which a latsbred is specifically a bodybuilding pose. Nobody walks around that way. There's no function to doing a lats bread other than showing how wide your lats look. In the real world, that visible lats syndrome,

Starting point is 01:05:16 where the gay walks around the gym. Oh, it looks like he's pushing a wheelbarrow. In the real world, back thickness is what shows up. Not necessarily with, with little show up too, but what looks impressive when you're just standing relaxed is thickness. Now, why do we find that so impressive when someone's standing relaxed?

Starting point is 01:05:32 That's function. Lats definitely are functional. Not saying they're not. They're very big muscles. They're very important. But that thickness is what stabilizes the spine. It's what makes you be able to lift things. It's what makes your core strong,

Starting point is 01:05:45 and it just sends that signal to someone looking at you and they see you and they go, oh God, that guy, or that girl, they really fit. Even for women, here's what's funny, because we talk about back size and muscularity and the average woman's like, I don't want that. When women have a well-developed back, they have that nice dip in the back.

Starting point is 01:06:04 That can, yes. That can, no. And so you in the back. That can be, yes. That can be. So you wear like a low cut dress or whatever. Oh, on women it looks gorgeous. I mean, I mean, a curving shape. I mean, men and women, I think the more curved, more shape muscular, curving shape that you have in the body, the more 3D you look, the more defined, the more muscular,

Starting point is 01:06:19 the more fit you look, I've never met a guy. Okay, this guy, I think Eric is the person who's asking question, I've never met a guy who can dead this guy, I think Eric is the person who's having a question, I've never met a guy who can deadlift 400 more pounds that didn't have a thick back. So go get that 400 pounds. I've never met somebody who is deadlifting 400 or more pounds, which is a attainable goal for most all men, okay?

Starting point is 01:06:38 400 pounds that didn't have a thick back. So deadlift at the top and then under that has to be a non-chest supported barbell row or a padlay row. All the stones. Oh, Jesus. And surrounded back. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 01:06:51 I mean, that's true. Right. That's true. I mean, everybody discounts that, but it's functional strength that actually produces that kind of thing. So I'm going to make the case for that right now. And if you don't have an Atlas stone, which you probably don't, you could do a Zurcher deadlift, which will give you some similar sandbag.

Starting point is 01:07:06 Right. So, what it, what it, what it, what happens with an atlas stone lift or a zircher deadlift or, you know, lifting a heavy sandbag is what's called rounded back lifting. Now, not rounded from the low back standpoint, but rather, when you're hugging something like this, your scapula has to spread and your thoracic is rounded to an extent. Now why that produces so much back thickness, we now know with data, when a muscle is loaded in a stretched position, you tend to cause more muscle hypertrophy.

Starting point is 01:07:39 Where else do you put the lats in this stretched position? I mean, the rhomboids traps. Yeah, rhomboids traps. And even the lats, because lats are getting spread out that way too, are all in that stretched position in an isometric contraction. Yeah, it's crazy.

Starting point is 01:07:54 You don't see that. Yeah, so, and you know, look, if you look at the Greek statues, because he mentions in the, in the question that Doug didn't read this part, but he says, I want my back to look like the statue of Hercules. Have you guys ever seen?

Starting point is 01:08:04 Oh, it's cool. I don't know, maybe Dougie could pull up Hercules statue. Greek Hercules statue. It's one of those where it's like. Look at his back. Yeah, it's just, looks super strong. You know, like the physique. It's like really like pernast.

Starting point is 01:08:17 There was no bodybuilding back then. No, they were literally creating, wasn't bubbly, let's say. What they knew to be functional. Like, well, we know strong people. This is what they typically look like. Well, part of what that atlast be functional, like, well, we know strong people. This is what they typically look like. Part of what that atlast us too is, so your core wraps all the way around your spine too, which is part of your low back muscles is part of the core.

Starting point is 01:08:35 And so massive core stability in an exercise like that too. So you're developing that really, really well. Let's see a picture. It's disconnected, Doug. Those are pretty mountains though. Those are pretty mountain, so. Yeah, man, that back looks so. Yeah, look at this back. I mean, look at the thickness on that.

Starting point is 01:08:51 You see a guy like that walking away from you? Yeah. I mean, we've talked about this. I'm not gonna bother. We've talked about this on and off air before. You got right. We can see a competitor posing on Instagram and know how well or if they even deadlift at all.

Starting point is 01:09:08 Like I can see that right away. And a good example of this on the elite, elite level on in competing is C-bomb. Yeah. The way he is built, he's built like a guy who squats and deadlifts really heavy. Yeah. And just he has. He has. Yeah. Yeah. And a he has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has., I can't seem to lose fat. Help. Help.

Starting point is 01:09:47 Are you doing too much? Yeah. Here's what you're doing. Way too much. Here's what you're doing to your body. Okay. First off, CrossFit workouts are super intense, typically two intense, not the best way to burn body fat or, you know, get to those kind of goals. CrossFit workouts are great though if you want to get good at CrossFit. So I'll say that. But they're very intense. Five days a week of CrossFit is too much CrossFit for 95 or maybe 90. How tall is it? Weight, like, we didn't get any of that.

Starting point is 01:10:17 I don't even care. I don't even care if this is a 110 pound. Oh yeah. That's still way too low of calories, way too much cross fitting and adding maps in a bulkhead. Yeah, so here's what's happening. Tons of intense crazy workouts, you're probably not recovering fully from them or your body can only heal. It's not adapting. And you're also only eating 15 hour calories.

Starting point is 01:10:39 Literally, literally what you're telling your body to do is survive. Yeah. Survive the onslaherment is crazy right now. And so what your body, your body's insurance policy against stress, one of the insurance policies against stress is fat. I mean, for most of you human history starvation was a real risk, a real problem,

Starting point is 01:10:58 stored body fat is an insurance policy. You beat yourself up like this and your body's not gonna wanna lose body fat. It's gonna splat toe. And in fact, what it'll do is it'll make you burn muscle or lose muscle, I should say, in order to slow your metabolism up. What you need to do is eliminate the crossfit, continue doing maps and a ball, like slowly bump your calories up over time, start to build some muscle, let your hormones rebalance, let your body recover, and little by little get your metabolism faster.

Starting point is 01:11:26 When you get up to a point, when you're eating 2500 calories or 3000 calories, and you feel good, and you're strong, and your body weight really didn't change much, or maybe just a little bit went up, then you can come from there and then boom, like magic fat will come off your body. Yeah, I wish this person didn't just post on Instagram. I wish this was a caller, so we could actually

Starting point is 01:11:43 go back and ask the dialogues. I was talking about. Somebody who's down this path, like, I would like to hear their, their weather at mentally. I'd like to know exactly for just how long they've been doing. Yeah, this is, but I love that it's brought up here because this, it highlights the point that we always make,

Starting point is 01:12:00 you know, this is, this is the problem with, you know, purely thinking, you know, going from a law through my damage, you know, purely thinking the, you know, going from a law through thermodynamics, right? Calories in versus calories out. Like, here's an example of somebody who is got to be burning tons and tons and tons of calories by all this CrossFit and anabolic workin' out and only eating 1500 yet, why is my body not losing, losing any more weight? And it's become adapted to what you're throwing at it. And not only is it massively overtraining weights and even if you were fed, you still would

Starting point is 01:12:31 not be recovering. There's nowhere else to go with this. But then you're also, you can't go harder, you're not hitting nutritional targets, being as low as 1500. So then you're not giving yourself adequate calories and nutrients to recover. So you're both ends, you're overdoing it on the training and underdoing it on the nutrition. And of course, you're stalled.

Starting point is 01:12:50 And you're not seeing any results. You're not probably getting stronger. You're not getting any better at anything. You're surviving is what you're doing. Yeah, your body's under attack 24%. By the way, if you stay on this long enough, not only will you not lose body fat, you're gonna get injured, get sick, really mess up your hormones and your body's going to scream.

Starting point is 01:13:07 It's going to start to scream at you. You're doing too much and eating too little. Next question is from Tyler Lava Sir. What are some key strategies you have used to help improve client adherence? Oh, okay. So this is going to be great for coaches, but I'll talk to the scholars. Yeah. If you don't show them.

Starting point is 01:13:23 You're not going to shit at it. It is effective. That is why it's asked for something. This is good for coaches, but this is also good for people listening right now who have who struggle with, you know, discipline themselves. Yeah. As a coach, and again, this applies to everybody, but as a coach, the most important thing you need to focus on with your client is helping them create this as a daily,

Starting point is 01:13:45 sorry, as a consistent habit. How can I get this person to adopt this lifestyle for the rest of their life? That's the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is not how do I get them the fastest results, the goal is not how do I make them the most sore, how do I beat them up, it's literally how can I train them in a way so that they eventually learn and want to do this for the rest of life. And the first most important thing is you have to figure out how to create an experience that the client will find

Starting point is 01:14:13 both challenging so that it's meaningful, but also enjoyable. Now, enjoyable doesn't necessarily mean pleasurable. This is where people tend to screw up. Pleasurable is also enjoyable, but there's lots of things that we do that are hard and challenging that we also find enjoyable because we You know get new milestones or we learn things or we start to enjoy the process of growth

Starting point is 01:14:36 So when clients would show up for me and this is later because I didn't understand this forever, but later I figured this out My job was to create that kind of experience for my client. And the number one was meeting them where they're at. That was the most important thing. There, people are ready to move forward when they're ready to move forward. In other words, they're ready to work out harder when they're ready, they're ready to change new things in their diet when they're ready.

Starting point is 01:14:57 This doesn't mean you lie to them, you're honest with them, but if you push them beyond that capability, what'll happen is they'll eventually falter, fail. If they didn't have time, they're going to stop. They're not going to want to do this anymore. So it was all about meeting them where they were, being honest about the process, and creating that experience where they actually enjoyed it. And once I was able to do that, it was game on. I mean, I love this question because it really forces us to communicate

Starting point is 01:15:24 where the root of a lot of our philosophy comes from, right? We have to take all the science and experience and stuff that we have in the health and fitness space, and then we have to take the behaviors, human behaviors of people and like what makes them go, what demotivates them, what motivates them, and we have to find a way to be a very successful coach and trainer, you have to find a way to blend that. If you purely just go by science stuff with that, not everybody's going to follow and adhere to them.

Starting point is 01:15:49 In fact, most people won't. So that's why when we give out information sometimes and there's like somebody wants to count, oh, well, I heard this person say this, it's like, okay, well, that's great. I understand that's what the research says. I also know the human psychology around that. And one of the things that I've learned

Starting point is 01:16:05 through training clients also now from having a son and being a father and having self-awareness around the things that I like. Like the stuff, the sports that you gravitated to, the board games that you like to do, a lot of the times is because the experience you had, you enjoyed. A lot of times part of the enjoyment is you were good at it

Starting point is 01:16:23 or you won, right? Like you played that first time you picked up at any of that's played a sport Like that sport you were drawn to was the one you probably naturally were kind of good at or you had success with So understanding that human psychology and how that applies to this here. They are on this new venture I'm going to go after lifting weights and eating better and so you need to make sure that they have a good, positive experience. One of the ways that you can make sure that happens is by stacking up wins.

Starting point is 01:16:52 So a big mistake that trainers do is they wanna teach them everything all at once. Oh, we're gonna change this and we're gonna do this and then you're gonna start doing this and you're gonna start doing it. Because their thought is like, oh my client told me, I wanna get the fastest results right away. So you think, oh, I'm gonna show them everything

Starting point is 01:17:07 they need to do to get the fastest results. Like, no, the fastest results is a thing that's going to keep them consistent for the longest period of time. That's what's gonna get them to go faster. And if you understand the behavioral psychology around people building and stacking these wins, so that's my goal.

Starting point is 01:17:22 So my goal to Salis Point is meet them where they're at, which could be as little. South's told the story before of getting my client to read one page about nutrition, or it could be all I want you to do is three times a week, go for a 20 minute walk, or it could be I just want you to show up to the gym one day a week. It doesn't matter, or it could be someone who's already going three, four days, and now you're adding one little thing, a nutritional tip, or you look at their diet, and you see, it's all over the board. They're not doing this, they're not doing that.

Starting point is 01:17:51 Instead of changing everything, you go, I just want you to add one high protein meal a day. I want you to add one bowl of vegetables. Like, find ways every week to give them these tiny little goals that you feel confident that they can accomplish and then celebrate the wins. That's it, and I'm so glad you're defining wins because this is the other problem trainers make.

Starting point is 01:18:13 They think wins means you gotta lose five pounds. No. Or you need to add 10 pounds to the car. No. Those are wins, but those aren't all the wins. Yeah. I remember, I remember this one conversation I had a client who came back from vacation and she was so upset. So those aren't all the wins. You know, I remember, I remember this one conversation,

Starting point is 01:18:25 I had a client who came back from vacation and she was so upset. And I said, you know, what, she's like, I failed. I mean, what do you mean you failed? She's like, I had dessert every night on vacation, every single night. And I said, okay. I said, I know your goal was to not have any dessert.

Starting point is 01:18:43 I said, but what did you used to do on vacation? Just like, well, I would have dessert all day. I'd have dessert for breakfast, I'd have dessert for lunch, I'd have dessert for dinner. I'm like, this is a big deal. You only had dessert once. Notice how I reframed that. She's like, I had dessert every night.

Starting point is 01:19:00 I said, you only had dessert once. All of a sudden, she was like, you're right. I totally did a lot better than I used to. That's right. That's a win. You need the right direction. You have to help coach the, now, no, to the person who's listening who's not a coach or trainer, this is how you hack yourself. Yes. This is how you get yourself to create this relationship or this experience with fitness, where you start to, God, I want to, I want to keep doing this. By the way, okay, I remember, I, oh, God, in the early days, sometimes I look back and I cringe at some of the ways I thought

Starting point is 01:19:31 when it came to fitness. I remember I had this one trainer that worked for me, and we always gave her the really, really tough clients, like the clients that just didn't want to show up or whatever. And I remember this is one lady she trained, and I don't know, I don't know, one out of three workouts. This lady would show up, they would do one exercise and then they go for a walk outside. And I remember thinking like, oh, and she was a good trainer, clients we signed with her. So at least was smart enough to not like, you know, harp on her. But

Starting point is 01:19:58 I remember thinking to myself, like, what a waste of time. Like you're just going to you want to walk like that's so dumb. Like we later I realized the brilliance on what she was doing. This person showed up to her. This was a big deal. So they showed up. So they would probably happen as she called. Like I don't want to come to the gym.

Starting point is 01:20:16 What's the matter? I don't feel good. Listen, we don't have to do much. Let's do one exercise. Let's go for a walk. Really? I can just do that. Absolutely.

Starting point is 01:20:23 And this person was consistent, weak in a week out doing that. That's right. Like that was totally brilliant. So that's, in my opinion, the most important thing. Now, there's a lot of things you could do with the experience for the client. One thing I used to love to do when people would show up to my studio was I'd yell their name out.

Starting point is 01:20:39 Hey, John, hey, what's going on? High five hug. We'd have conversations. I'd make people enjoy, I'd switch the music to something that someone loved I had a person who showed up who is stimulus was too high for them So I had a separate room. I turned the lights off. We'd work out in there with no music It's all individual. Yes, each client has their own little unique characteristics and things that they're interested in And that's what you gather in the very beginning is like what are their interests?

Starting point is 01:21:03 What do they do outside this? What do you for work? What's their family like? You're just having that constant dialogue so you can ask them questions that get them. Because people like talking about what's going on in their life, not a lot of people listen to, you know, what's happening and then the latest thing that's happened in their life. Like, you don't have to just sit there and talk about, you know, fitness and reps and good point, and you know, fitness and reps. A good point.

Starting point is 01:21:25 You know, like get over yourself. Like, this is another human being that just, you're spending time with and building a relationship with. Obviously, you're steering the fitness and the nutrition and everything in the right direction. But, you know, that's sort of ancillary to what you're doing in terms of hanging out. That's such a long play. Be likable and build winds. Literally. Be likable and build wins. Literally.

Starting point is 01:21:46 Be likable. Build wins. That's all you just, by the way, do that to yourself. Yeah, coach. Be likable to yourself. What does that mean? Don't beat the shit at yourself with a legend.

Starting point is 01:21:54 Oh my god, I'm so fat. Oh my god, I'm so terrible. I didn't do as good. Oh, I should have worked out harder. Are you liking yourself right now? Why the hell would you want to show up and keep doing this to yourself? And set wins like that to yourself. Every time I go from a kick where I would

Starting point is 01:22:08 consider myself kind of off the wagon where I'm inconsistent with that and I just said, okay, and I'm gonna turn it up. I don't go full-bore right away. It's literally every week I make minor adjustments just tiny ones, easy ones. One's that I know, well, you know, I haven't been walking at all after meals. That's all I'm gonna do. Oh, I haven't been making sure that I'm getting that extra pro, oh come on, I'm gonna do that. And like, and it's crazy,

Starting point is 01:22:28 I still do that same reverse psychology on myself, is I get that like momentum of building wins. And you know what, you're, and it's inevitable we can have these setbacks, but when you're, when you're stacking small wins, the setbacks are really small too. And then you get right back on, it's a lot easier to get right back on the most.

Starting point is 01:22:43 The way it's a very clear picture, it's actually an honest objective picture. What happens is people don't, they don't even calculate or consider, they're not even letting themselves be aware of the small wins. They only focus on the big wins, which is the long win, and then all the small fails along the way. So that's gonna point out.

Starting point is 01:23:01 That's gonna paint a shitty picture. Of course you're gonna stop. Next question is from Cavalier Coach. How do I train a client with diabetes on how to work out and what went and how much to eat? Okay, so this might sound very specific to people with diabetes, but this is going to apply to everybody. So obviously diabetes, your body is becoming resistant to insulin. So what that means is your body, when it releases insulin, insulin tells the body to do a few things,

Starting point is 01:23:28 very important things. And when your body stops recognizing the amount of insulin that you're sending, it has to produce more and more and more. And over time, you develop diabetes, which can become quite detrimental. It's actually one of the leading causes of chronic health issues

Starting point is 01:23:45 and death, okay? The most effective thing you could do to improve your insulin sensitivity's build muscle. Period, end of story. Period, end of story. Nothing is more effective at improving insulin sensitivity besides also the diet stuff. And we'll talk about that like building muscle.

Starting point is 01:24:05 So if you have diabetes or you don't want to get diabetes or you just want improved insulin sensitivity because you're reading about how great that is for longevity and cognition, build muscle. Muscle itself is a storage vessel for processed for the sugars and carbohydrates that we process in the body. It stores glycogen. Besides the liver, where a huge amount of glycogen is stored, it's also the muscle. And insulin is what tells your body to store glycogen.

Starting point is 01:24:34 Well, we don't have a lot of muscle. The glycogen doesn't have a lot of places to go. So insulin comes up, glycogen's got nowhere to go. Your body is exposed to lots of insulin. Nothing's happening. It starts to become resistant. And the studies show this. Studies on severely obese individuals

Starting point is 01:24:48 who build a little bit of muscle, don't even lose weight, have significant improvements in the markers that show whether or not you're doing good or bad with things like diabetes. Whereas other forms of exercise don't do this. And even dietary strategies don't necessarily do this as a- The irony of the advice to this person is the same advice you give to a normal person that was trying to lose weight. Exactly. It's like, eat whole foods. I would never tell a client

Starting point is 01:25:13 to not pair carbohydrates with a protein in a fat. So you want balance, right? So when they eat stuff like that, so you're not, you don't want to eat this high glycemic carbohydrate with no no protein or fat. You want to make sure that you pair the carbohydrates with a protein in fat. So whole foods balanced, balanced meals, carbs, proteins, and fats, and build muscle. Eat in a slight calorie surplus, not a massive one, not a crazy deficit, slight calorie surplus. You got to pause right there, because that's so important. Somebody right now is freaking out. What do you mean a calorie surplus?

Starting point is 01:25:46 I thought you had to eat less to work with diabetes. Yes, in the short term, cutting your calories will improve your numbers. But what we're talking about is fueling the muscle growth that is gonna give you the long term ability to manage your glucose. That's why Adam said, eatin' a slight surplus. It's not a huge surplus.

Starting point is 01:26:05 It's a small surplus just enough to fuel the muscle growth. By the way, I do want to make another comment on this is that if you train somebody with diabetes with strength training too hard, you can run into problems as well because if the stress is too high, all the stores, yeah. Oh yeah, if the stress is too high, the signal goes to the liver to dump a shit ton of glycogen. And so I've had this happen with a client, had a client had diabetes before I understood. I mean, it's a type of client that a CGM would be fun to have.

Starting point is 01:26:35 Oh, God. Right, so I mean, now that we have access to stuff like that with like companies like NutriSense, I mean, having a CGM on a client like that. So you could measure, oh wow, when we push this hard, look what happened. And so I having a CGM on a client like that. So you could measure, oh, wow, when we push this hard, look what happened. You've had a long-term client. I mean, type two diabetes, obviously, but it has been reversed. Yes. Amazing.

Starting point is 01:26:53 Yeah. What an amazing thing. Yeah. So you've had that? Oh, isn't it crazy? I couldn't believe it. Now, was that before you knew that could happen? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was tripping out because the doctor was very impressed, but it was a long time,

Starting point is 01:27:07 a long form of consistency of building better habits, but yeah, full reversal. Yeah, so here's the three things that I'll say for this. One is high protein diet, that's very, very good at controlling blood glucose. Two, build muscle, we just said that. And then here's number three, after meals, especially carbohydrate containing or sugar containing meals, move a little bit, five to ten minutes, like go for a walk.

Starting point is 01:27:33 Now here's why, when you eat it, when you eat the carbohydrate, you know, the glucose goes into the blood, think of the muscles as sponges by moving them, just by contracting them by walking, you're, it's like squeezing a sponge and then letting it relax in water. What's it gonna do? It's gonna suck up the water. Just by moving the muscles, they'll suck up more of that blood sugar

Starting point is 01:27:55 and make the insulin more effective. And it's very, those three things right there are like the key, like high protein, strength, strain, and then after your meals, go for like a five to 10 minute walk. And you see massive improvements. And if you can get this client to invest in a CGM, there's tremendous value around having a tool

Starting point is 01:28:12 like this in water. And mainly so you can help them make the connection of all the things we're talking about right now. Like they go and do the walk and you're like, see the difference? Look how much your spike leveled out. It didn't spike as high because right after you ate, you went and did this.

Starting point is 01:28:25 So it's a point. And so you can use the CGN, and then even use a coach and a trainer, you can gauge the intensity level. Like, you know, so where you're like, I wanna push them and I wanna challenge them, but I wanna do it so hard that they have this massive rebound and spike from it.

Starting point is 01:28:39 So it's like, you can use that to teach them about intensity, the way they train, about meal timing, about pairing. You can see when to teach them about intensity, the way they train, about meal timing, about pairing. You can see when they eat a carbohydrate without pairing it with the protein, even if it's a healthy food, and they don't realize, like, oh wow, what a difference it makes

Starting point is 01:28:54 when I have six almonds with that banana, it makes a huge difference. Like you start to notice all these little things that you can then teach them those behaviors. And so there's a lot of value. I mean, I need to value in CGM's no matter what, but especially with a client that has diabetes. Totally.

Starting point is 01:29:09 Look, if you like our show and you probably do because you're here, go check out mindpumpfree.com. We got a bunch of free fitness guides that'll help you with your fitness goals. You can also find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump Justin. I'm at Mind Pump, De Stefano and Adam. Is that Mind Pump Adam?

Starting point is 01:29:23 Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pump Media.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS and Obolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Esthetic,

Starting point is 01:29:43 nine months of phased expert exercise exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainer, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love

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