Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2241: Longer Vs. Shorter More Frequent Workouts, Transitioning From Powerlifting to Bodybuilding, the Value of Reverse Dieting & More

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, pop, mind, pop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pup, right? In today's episode, we answered live callers questions. They called in, we got to coach them on air. We had a good time, but before that was the intro portion.

Starting point is 00:00:26 This is where we talk about current events, fitness studies, family life and much more. Today's intro portion was 56 minutes long. Then we got to the callers. By the way, you could check the show notes for timestamps if you want to just fast forward to your favorite part. Also, if you want to be on an episode like this one, email us your question at live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some

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Starting point is 00:02:45 The Apple Podcast winner is POJDJDM. And for Facebook, we have Wendy Armstrong, Andrew Sharpless, and an evangelical DS. All four of you are winners. And then I just read to iTunes at minepumpmedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address. And we'll get that shirt right out to you. Yeah. The ultimate form of exercise for longevity. and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you.

Starting point is 00:03:05 The ultimate form of exercise for longevity, okay, as defined by living a long, healthy life, is strength training. Now, why is that? Strength training is the only form of exercise that is specifically pro-healthy tissue, okay? It's the only form of exercise that directly builds one of the healthiest tissues in your body, which is muscle. Muscle is hormone sensitive.

Starting point is 00:03:32 It produces anti-inflammatory compounds. It boosts your metabolism. It's a storage vessel for carbohydrates and the obvious, it makes you move. It gives you mobility. No other form of exercise directly does this. Other forms of exercise may indirectly do this, but strength training is pro-anabolic, pro-tissue.

Starting point is 00:03:56 Train it for longevity. Is this in regards to the study that came out about the muscle fibers, kind of deforming and changing as we age. They just did a study while, right, where they looked at. That's interesting. Untrained individuals versus trained individuals, and they looked at their muscle fibers. And the muscle fibers of those that were untrained were as they defined it irregular shaped. So deformed.

Starting point is 00:04:21 Yeah, essentially, right. So here's what's wild about that. This really backs up with Dr. Lion has been saying, right? Five pounds of muscle is not five pounds of muscle. We used to think that, right? Now one may be stronger than the other because we would say the central nervous system, you know, activates it better, maybe it's got better use of energy, whatever. But the muscles themselves actually look different. And they can see this now, microscopically, when they examine the muscles. So it's not that you're just building muscle. You also turn the muscle you have into a healthier version of itself. And what I said earlier about other forms of exercise, strength training

Starting point is 00:05:02 directly, the direct effect of it is to build, is to build, is to build, is to build muscle and muscle is this super healthy, essentially organ that you have on your body and the healthier it is and the more of it that you have, of course within the realm of natural and so forth, for the most part is better. When you have less of it and it's less healthy, you have terrible effects. The side effects of which are things like obesity, insulin resistance, hormone imbalances, and loss of mobility. So it's like, you know, for longevity purposes, just for living longer, all activity is good as long as it's appropriate, but strength training is like,

Starting point is 00:05:46 it's so far head and shoulders above the others, it's in a completely different category. It's like strength training and then everything else down here. So these muscle fibers, like when you look at it, like is it, like what kind of shapes are we looking at here in terms of like, you know,

Starting point is 00:06:02 they're not uniform. I mean, I feel like irregular and like kind terms of like, you know, they're not uniform. I mean, I feel like they're regular. They're in like kind of curved or, you know, I feel like, well, I mean, I don't you feel like you can picture this. I feel like I can picture this. There's a picture of it. Well, oh, really?

Starting point is 00:06:14 Yeah, pull it up so maybe we could see it. But I mean, I'm saying more so like the bodies, right? Like I've seen a six-year-old body on somebody who's never lifted weights. And like their bicep doesn't even look right. You know what I'm saying? It looks, it's all kind of like lumpy or shaped weird. Like, maybe like envision an advanced age client

Starting point is 00:06:32 who's never lifted weights before that you've had. And just, they're the shape to their, even their muscle inconsistencies. Yeah, it looks weird. Well, so I don't know if that, how that applies to this. Yeah, I don't know if it is. I'm just saying that like, I had never thought of that until you just said that. I don't know how that applies to this. Yeah, I don't know if it is. But I'm just saying that I never thought of that

Starting point is 00:06:46 until you just said that and I'm like, I wonder if that's. I just sent the link to Doug. I never even thought about the quality of the actual muscle tissue over time. Well, so this backs up also the whole, because there's always, and I've brought this, there it is right there.

Starting point is 00:07:00 So look at young muscle, look at old muscle. That's okay. See the one on the bottom left? How it looks kind of like they're all different shapes. It's not uniform. On the right, on the bottom is the worst one. On the top is the healthy looking muscle. You're, by the way, so it's just a better uniform.

Starting point is 00:07:18 By the way, if you don't strength training, you don't, excuse me, if you don't strength train, even if you're young, your muscles under a microscope will look old. They'll start to look like they've aged. It's totally reversible with heavy strength training though. Remarkable, right? So, what's also cool, and I brought this up before, the whole argument, and just people on the social media fitness people who will say they...

Starting point is 00:07:40 Who shared this with our friends? The study was not done by Dr. Andy Gapam, but he shared it and I follow him. So I reposted it. So the argument of like the, oh, one pound of muscle only burns us many calories. You can only speed up your metabolism so much, reverse dieting, does it work, et cetera, et cetera.

Starting point is 00:07:57 But we've all experienced this. Well, we'll have a client, and it's not like you gain 20 pounds of muscle, you get like four pounds of muscle. But we reverse diet them, they get stronger, they gain four pounds of muscle, you get like four pounds of muscle. But we reverse diet them, they get stronger, they gain four pounds of muscle, which is not a ton. It's enough to where you could feel it, but it's not a ton.

Starting point is 00:08:10 But then we'll see their metabolism boost by like 800 calories, right? A thousand calories. How is that possible? Well, healthy muscle is far more metabolically active. So even though they don't have gained pounds of muscle. So your theory is that what we've seen or what we've identified is that, you know, when we measure in these studies, this is why this is such a frustrating argument for us, right? When you get these people that we just went through this back and forth with our buddy, James Smith, we were

Starting point is 00:08:37 talking about the content that he put out there and we're just like, it's not that simple of like, what the studies show that, this only burns this many this many colors and because in this in the research we're isolating that but we're not looking at what's happening metabolically to the entire body just by exercising again. So what you're saying is theoretically not only did we potentially add five pounds of muscle to this client who we saw this huge metabolic boost, but we also made all the other muscle in their body healthier and better.

Starting point is 00:09:10 Wow. Yeah. Now, let me have a minute. That makes it, that makes, that seems to be, it seems to help explain that phenomenon that we know. And it's way more complex than just that. I don't even think I'm explaining,

Starting point is 00:09:21 you know, 10% of it, I think that's part of it because there's other metabolic functions in the body that we don't understand much of. Like you could become more in a less efficient with your calories, even though your body looks the same just by changing the inputs, right? The signals and the stress and all that stuff. But look, how many times have you experienced this, Adam, were you reversed a client, a female client,

Starting point is 00:09:42 and she gains like five pounds of muscle? I don't know, like five pounds of muscle, but she's eating a thousand more calories a day and not gaining body fat. Yeah. What is that? You know, 250 calories burned by each pound of muscle. I don't think that's necessarily what's happening. I think part of it is the extra muscle, but part of it is the other muscle that she had

Starting point is 00:10:00 is healthier. The other part of it is the body becomes less efficient with calories or produces more energy, more heat, you know, so you get this thermogenic effect. And there's a lot of other factors that are that are at play. But yeah, it's really interesting. It's like you don't even have the build muscle. You just improve the health of the existing muscle that you have. Yeah, yeah, improve the the actual function in health of it. It's the interesting to think about that. It's crazy. Yeah, you just you assume that you, you know, just visually or or over the years you've built muscle that it's just going to kind of

Starting point is 00:10:29 remain, you know, in its intended sort of function. Everything's going to work out. Who shared that that conversation or that clip? Who was it that was was it Peter Atia or Huberman? Who was sharing the that how how little of strength training you have to do to do that? Dr. Andy Gelpin. Oh, was it Gelpin? Yeah. Oh, it was Gelpin. Yeah, so now this is not for a trained individual, but he's time with the average person. I'm pretty sure.

Starting point is 00:10:51 Right. We're the average person. You lose a certain percentage of muscle every year as you get a certain age. And the question was, how much strength training would you have to do in order to do? What's the minimum to prevent that is like great He's like like one session every two or three weeks. Yeah, would be enough to just not now because now because of that and like how how That's a big deal when you think about it. Yeah, and and also Much easier to add here to that then, you know, an hour of cardio every single day

Starting point is 00:11:22 So at what point do the doctors start shifting to that recommendation of, hey, just strength trained once a week. Once a week, I just need you to, and maybe even simpler, you're gonna do these three exercises, right? Like a full body squad or an overhead, couple movements once a week

Starting point is 00:11:42 could have massive positive impact. General practitioners, it's always that, you know, you have to go to that like minimal, viable option for people, right? Because if, and I, maybe that is sort of, and that's what I mean by that. Right. I'm glad you point that out to us. I'm obviously, I'm not advocating that for our listeners who are in health and fitness.

Starting point is 00:12:00 Like, you know, hey, just work out once every two weeks. Like, that's the minimum for general population. That would at least, yeah, you know, yeah, I think about the how much we're struggling with obesity in this country. And if we were to just advise them to do that, you know, once, it once every other week, you know, how many clients I had towards the end of my career that were and what would be considered advanced age, which I would classify as over 65, okay?

Starting point is 00:12:26 Do you know how many clients I had in that age group who I trained one day a week? And that was it. That was it. They did nothing else on their own. I mean, to my best ability to try to get them to do exercise on their own, the vast majority of them did nothing else on their own.

Starting point is 00:12:39 They had the regular life. They would come see me, and I would train them one day a week. And it was not this intense crazy workout. We're talking about 75 year olds, 80 year olds, where one of the exercises would be sit down and stand up seven times or try and reach this balloon that I'm throwing to. The muscles to contract.

Starting point is 00:12:56 Okay, and I saw, and I saw with every single one of them with once a week of strength training, okay, at a very appropriate level for them, I saw consistent strength gains in them. And they saw consistent improvements in the quality of life. To the point where I remember specifically, one woman, Kim, who hired me, she was in the stage group,

Starting point is 00:13:15 and I remember her daughter questioning whether or not this was even valuable. She's like, that's gonna be a waste of time. She sees you once a week. She misses sessions sometimes because of her health. So like three workouts a month, four workouts a month, like, are we just wasting our time? And they said, no, we're going to see strength gains. And within two months, she was like, sold, I can't, she's, I remember saying to me, I can't believe the improvements I've seen

Starting point is 00:13:38 with just once a week. Now back then when they explained the way I explained it was, I mean, it's way more than what she was doing. So it's gonna get, it's gonna produce something. But now when you look at all the data, it's very clear what was happening. It's like, that's enough. By the way, this doesn't mean, you know, it's almost like if you took a bunch of people who had scurvy, okay?

Starting point is 00:13:58 Scurvy from not having enough vitamin C to prevent disease. And you gave them just a little vitamin C. Like not, not what would be optimal, but just enough. You would see no scurvy. And people would be like, oh my God, this is insane. Yeah, I'm cured. What we're seeing, pirates.

Starting point is 00:14:14 What we're seeing is that this once, every once in a while strength training is far from optimal. But I think what it more illustrates is just how, just how little people do. Just how little of signal they tell their body that we need some muscle. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that.

Starting point is 00:14:32 I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. little bit sitting down, your body has the signals that it receives are we need no strength, we need no muscle, we need very little function, just operate at absolute minimum and then

Starting point is 00:14:51 slowly your body adapts downward. So, so this makes me wonder, because what we're talking about in advanced age, we're talking about decondition obese people, like how beneficial that this would be. I wonder how beneficial this would be to somebody like ourselves who have put decades of consistent lifting and training. Like, man, just if you just never fell off, like you just, hey, I'm gonna make sure I never, well, I have to, the amount of work

Starting point is 00:15:20 and how I need to do now to maintain the strength and physique that I have is so little in comparison to what I had to do in the past to get there. I know. That's why I'm saying this. Like we've talked about, like I'm using the analogy of comparing it to investing, I feel like we've done so much investing early in our life that we can get away with so much more spending. Right. And not reinvesting. Yeah, true. You can get away with- It's compounding interest, isn't it? Yeah, and I really think that, you know,

Starting point is 00:15:49 people that would consider themselves ex-athletes or at one time in their life, they were fitness fanatics. Like, man, you've built, you've invested for a long time. You've built a lot of muscle, like, man, you just making sure you're hitting the weights once a week. It seems like I wish we had some really good studies to show that, right? We need-

Starting point is 00:16:08 We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need-

Starting point is 00:16:15 We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need-

Starting point is 00:16:23 We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- We need- You work out five days a week to build your muscle, to keep it is like one day a week. That's crazy. That is crazy. With comparable intensity and all that other stuff, that is wild to me. But I mean, I experienced it now, like I said, in order to maintain, you know what it would take in my 20s to keep the kind of physique,

Starting point is 00:16:38 I wouldn't be able to keep it. I'd have to work so hard to build it. My diet would have to be super dialed in and all this stuff would have to be perfect. Now it's like, sleep is off. I work out at 5.30 a.m. so my workouts aren't super great. Most of the time, I'm not training with the same kind of intensity I can't and it just stays. I mean, that's why I love using the comparison with investing because it's like, you make a lot of sacrifice and discipline early on. But boy, does it really pay off in the long run?

Starting point is 00:17:05 So yeah, maybe you're not going out and blowing all that money on those things in your early 20s, but hey, stay the course. Because if you keep reinvesting, keep reinvesting sacrifice a little bit now, why you're young and it's early, like boy, you start getting 30, 40, 50 and you've put decade or decades behind you of being consistent and lifting weights and training hard and doing that health retirement is much brighter. Yeah, I love that. You know what I used to say to people that was wrong?

Starting point is 00:17:34 It was so wrong. You remember this, right? You're in the gym, average person comes in and this question would always come up. I always thought it was such a dumb question. They'd say, okay, well, once I build all this muscle, what happens when I stop? Yeah. And I'd be like, well, you lose it, right? dumb question. They'd say, okay, well, once I build all this muscle, what happens when I stop? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:46 And I'd be like, well, you lose it, right? And I used to say this, I say, whatever it took to build the body is what you're gonna need to do to keep the body. I was wrong. Whatever you do to build the body, you do way less of it to keep the body. Now, obviously, if you stop completely,

Starting point is 00:18:01 it's gonna go backwards. Right. But, oh my God, with strength training, it's almost like this panacea. It's like, hey guys, work out, be consistent, build the muscle, do a good job. Later on, you don't gotta do nearly as much to keep it. That is crazy.

Starting point is 00:18:16 I didn't know that before. I just say the wrong thing. I know, and I feel like if we're communicating that better. It's a great selling message. Yeah, that's why I think it aligns so well with the investing thing. It's like, I wish I understood investing like I do at this age back when I was in my 20s because I would have sacrificed a lot more

Starting point is 00:18:34 from 20 to 25 and been smarter with my money because of where I just now, because before you know it, you are 40, and it's like, oh my god, if I would have just not bought that car or not did all those crazy trips or not gamble that money the way I did It's always coffee by the way I just didn't buy one store You'd be a millionaire by the time you were 45 have you ever seen those? The most annoying they're so annoying let's just say you go to the movies and you get popcorn It's always some weird thing like,

Starting point is 00:19:05 you'd say shit about popcorn. Shit about popcorn. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny when you talk to shit about a house when I was 16. Oh, no, stupid me. Bro, I tell you what, I had, I could have done so much

Starting point is 00:19:18 because I was a kid. I was 18 years old making six figures in 1997. I didn't move out of my parents house until, let's say, 18, 19, 20, 20, until 2001, okay? So I worked, I made six figures, paid no rent. I didn't have a car payment, because I bought my car's cash. I had no bills.

Starting point is 00:19:37 I had no bills, okay, so I was just saving money. But all I learned from my parents, my parents were old school. They came from a very, safe, safe. They knew the basics. I know, I had the same. It's just save your money. Yeah, they knew the basics

Starting point is 00:19:51 because that's where they came from. So it was just don't spend a lot of saving your money. Which by the way, if you just know those two things you're good, right? So that's all I did, I just saved. And I'd have friends who'd be like, you know, you can buy a house and then you could take this and buy this thing over here.

Starting point is 00:20:04 And they'd be like, no, I don't need a house. I think that's crazy. Yeah, I keep saving my... Damn, dude, I'd have like 15 properties or something. I did all... Especially back then, because back then, my first house I bought in San Jose was in 2001. It was a three bedroom, whatever, it's $410,000. That same house now would be about a million.

Starting point is 00:20:24 It was oh, why don't you do that? Yeah. That same house now would be about a million. It was O1 when you did that? Yeah. We were right around the same time. It was O2. O2, O2, and it was 320,000 for my condo. And I remember I was making six figures. I could have bought two houses for that price or I could have bought that one, paid it off

Starting point is 00:20:39 or rented it, bought another one. See mine stretched to me thin because at that time, I only had saved up 50 or $60,000. You also had a bunch of car payments. No, I didn't that yet. You been back then? No, no, no, I didn't move into it. Well, I don't know, I thought you did.

Starting point is 00:20:53 No, so it was after that. So that was actually, in this was a mistake, right? Looking back, one of the lessons I learned, you know, there was a point when the condo was worth a half a million dollars, right? So I had two, three hundred thousand dollars in equity. And I learned about the, obviously, you know, the interest that you pay on your mortgage is tax deductible. And that's when I learn like, why would you ever have a car payment if you have that

Starting point is 00:21:16 much equity in a home, roll it into the home. And then I did. And I, you know, that's when I bought my, my first like, you know, $80,000 truck back then. And I, and you know, I, it's not that's when I bought my, my first like, you know, $80,000 truck back then. And I, and, you know, I, it's not, that's not a bad decision. When you got that much equity in there, it's better than it shouldn't go take a loan out. You know, looking back now, I wish I would have had more of like the millionaire and extort mentality, which is living significantly below my means, right?

Starting point is 00:21:38 But yeah, no, I took, I had, I took that out. And then I also was, that was in the era of like the loans were crazy. So I, and I was young. So I had credit, but I had no, I didn't do a negam or adjustable, but what I, when you were that young, like even though I had like impeccable credit, never miss a pin on anything, I was so young in the bureau that you don't, that also has a lot of weight too. So you could be perfect on your credit, but you only have one credit card and you've never spent more than five grand Like they're they're you're just still gonna have a risk

Starting point is 00:22:08 Yeah, so I mean I had a An 80 20 loan right so one loan carried 80% of it the other was a 20% of it and it want the the fixed 30 on the 80% was 9% and then the 20% was a 12 or 13% loan. So I had like a blended 11%. So even though $300,000, $320,000 is not a lot of money, it was the interest that was.

Starting point is 00:22:35 You know, in order to buy my house, my first house, when I first tried to go see what I qualified for, the guy tried to look up my credit and I had no credit. Yeah, see, I did. I don't have a credit card. Yeah. I'd never had a credit card. I guess he, so how did you get a good loan then?

Starting point is 00:22:50 If you had to go open a Macy's, I swear to God. This is true story. I went and got a Macy's account. Right. And then I was able to get a credit card. And then any dollar I spent, I used my credit card and paid it off every month. Yeah, but even then that's still not enough.

Starting point is 00:23:02 Okay, so you might have somebody write some crooked shit for you. No, maybe I don't know. Yeah. But I built that up and then over time plus the amount of income that I had and the savings that I had. So I had over six figures saved up. Exactly. You were the same boat.

Starting point is 00:23:15 We'll remember back then they wouldn't have the same. Well, so that's what I'm saying. Whoever underwrote it for you did some kinky shit to make it look like you had like longer credit or something because even even you did all that on your credit, unless you did that for five years, if you only did it for a year or two, they want to see four credit lines for more than four more years in the credit bureau. And when you're buying a home at 21 years old, you just don't have that. Like, you know, most of us didn't get our credit cards till at earliest, 18, 19 years old.

Starting point is 00:23:42 And who goes and gets four credit cards, you know what I'm saying? So you maybe got a car loan, maybe you have one Macy's card, but normally then you still would be a subprime. Yeah, but back then, you know how it was back then, this is what led to the 2008 crash, right? It's like, it got crazy. People don't realize this, young people, especially, you would go to the bank and they would ask you how much money do you want? Yeah. Okay. And then you would write down how much you made.

Starting point is 00:24:08 Nobody checked anything. I could literally be like, oh, I make $2 million a year. You qualified for this. And they would just give it to you. Yeah, that's why. So I had friends, I had friends and family members who were making, you know, 70 grand a year, right?

Starting point is 00:24:24 80 grand a year. So not like tons of money, but okay, you know, 70 grand a year, right, 80 grand a year. So not like tons of money, but okay, you know, okay, money, but they own five, six properties, like because they kept doing that one after another and they would do all these adjustable loans on all of them. So they could afford the payments. Of course, when the loans adjusted to the new payment, everybody lost everything. Yeah, yeah. It was crazy. I mean, what is your family saying and are you paying much much attention to like I don't know sometimes you're in and out right with like are you really following the markets right now? Like you know what what's your thought or what your family's thought on on real estate this this coming year? Oh, I mean they think it's they've dropped the rates again. They think it's going to be another run. It's crazy. I know. You know what the inses that's that's just

Starting point is 00:25:03 because supply so low. Yeah, so low. So yeah, there's even though There's a significant you know who's gonna buy up all when the rates of investors. Yeah, yeah, you know, not peat not No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, yeah, I made like a sarcastic comment because he made this prediction of like tell, basically he was telling people like, now between now and February 20th is the time to buy. Did you see, by the way, did you see that there was a meme with a real estate agent on it? And it's like underneath it. It's like, now is a good time to buy.

Starting point is 00:25:33 It says guy who profits from you. I'm gonna profit from you. Okay, literally 100% every time. Okay, so that was the, I've never talked to an agent who's told me, you know what I said, don't get any. So, so that was, I don't mess up what I said. Like literally it was, someone was promoting that.

Starting point is 00:25:48 And the comment I made was, because he was telling people to buy with that. I said, laugh out loud. I said, I have a better prediction. I said, more than 50% of realtors will need to pick up a second job by the end of 2024. Oh well. I do, I wonder why he got mad.

Starting point is 00:26:00 So, so he fires back at me. He says, maybe it's a job with high turnover, right? But again, childish mud slinging at a prediction is, wow, we don't even know why you're passionate about this, but would love to hear more from you. If you can present yourself as more of an adult, whatever. Even though you're doing the funny voice, you actually said a really nice, I mean,

Starting point is 00:26:16 he was pretty accurate and objective right there. No, no, no, it's mud slinging. I said, mud slinging. I said, it's just a better prediction than yours. I said, just one week ago, Yahoo Finance posted 45% of realtors say they're struggling to pay their rent. You know that right now? 45, almost half of realtors right now

Starting point is 00:26:31 are struggling to do that. But, and even, so here's the thing that I don't like about the people that are putting out stuff like this, is like, and of course you're gonna say that because you're dependent on people buying homes for you to make money. But you should- That's gonna go buy a car, but you have, don't buy buy a car. If you unless your Uber rich and all your family and friends are too,

Starting point is 00:26:50 you shouldn't even want this. If you have anybody who's close to you that you love that are in the middle class or lower, you you should not want to see this because you're only going to fuck those people more. If what you're predicting is true, if now is a great time to buy and you're only going to fuck those people more. If what you're predicting is true, if now is a great time to buy, and you're gonna get all this equity in the next year or two, meaning that means houses continue to go,

Starting point is 00:27:10 because that was his comment is that you're gonna get a ton of equity within a year. A year you'll have all this equity in this home, if you buy between now and in the end of February. And it's like, I'm not saying necessarily that isn't true because you're right. If we drop rates in this, in Q1 and we have this low of supply, then a bunch of people who do have the money will go in and buy up what's there just to take advantage of the

Starting point is 00:27:36 lower rates. And all that will do is skyrocket the house. But it's not going to be middle class, lower class people buying those homes. It's people with all the money. And so all you're doing is you're moving that out of range for your, and so if you have kids or you have family who are not rich, like that's a terrible thing to watch. You know what the problem is? They started regulating these investment.

Starting point is 00:27:58 No. Yeah. Well, they're, they're, they're, I heard whims of it though. Yeah, they're, they're trying to put on a, maybe Doug can look this up because I don't know where it's at. I brought the sub rocks and they're trying to, they're, they're, I heard whims of it, though. Yeah, they're, they're trying to put on a, maybe Doug can look this up because I don't know where it's at. I brought the sub rocks and they're trying to, they're trying to limit a big investment groups like BlackRock coming in and buying single-family homes.

Starting point is 00:28:13 Oh, that's what I heard. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what's, so here's, I don't know. Here's the big challenge that people need to understand. So here's the big, big challenge. If you, okay, so here's what would have to happen at large scale to lower the price or to get real estate to become more affordable. One is a dramatic increase in supply. We need more homes. So in order to do that, we'd have to change regulations and make it easier to build a lot of houses.

Starting point is 00:28:37 Okay. Here's the problem with that. People who currently own houses do not want that. Go to any neighborhood. This happens all the time. This is happening all the time. Go to any neighborhood here in the Bay Area whenever they try to build a lot of me against it. They fight against it because why

Starting point is 00:28:52 it'll drop their property value. So did they actually ban it? I think it's a proposed, yeah, it's proposed when I brought it up. Yes, so it's called the End Heads Fund Control of American Homes Act. Every time they name and act something, they'll always like them buying like investment properties?

Starting point is 00:29:25 Like you wouldn't be limited to doing it. It's massive funds. It's hedge funds in an institutional investors. It's an institutional investor. I wanna know how they define it. Oh wow, you can probably look it up. I'm sure it means that you're taking on groups of 10 or more people's money.

Starting point is 00:29:39 Okay, that's what I'm saying. In order to, to, to, to, to, could that makes a big difference? Sure, absolutely. If it's like, if anybody already owns two properties, they can't buy, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, cities that try to control rent or try to make rent less expensive by putting a cap on rent. What ends up happening is the property owners stop investing in their own properties and so the properties become decrepit because they can't charge more. And you reduce the supply significantly because anybody coming in doesn't want to build

Starting point is 00:30:21 new new properties because it doesn't make sense. So we end up with a lower supply, San Francisco, New York City, and areas, that's what happens. It's like a property goes up for rent in a rent controlled area. It gets, there's like a hundred thousand applicants and there's nobody can get it because, because need your market action is like,

Starting point is 00:30:38 yeah, they got to regulate because, you know, it's otherwise like who's gonna be able to compete with, you know, I mean, I'm not against this. I'm not against this. I'm not either. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's a very, a very fair play to limit them from doing that because that, I mean, single family homes. What do they need? Single family homes. Yeah. Honestly, like it. Yeah. I, here's the thing. It's just a thing. It's just a thing. They can artificially in an environment like this. They can artificially control it Right, you're right, but I got an idea around or thought around this. I just want to process this out loud So you've got these huge

Starting point is 00:31:17 Investment companies going and buying single-vac family homes. Okay. Yeah, that's a strong incentive for builders To build and provide more supply. When these people leave the market, we could potentially lose the incentive for builders to build more homes, thus shrinking the supply more. No, not as so long as the supply is as low as it is, and the demand is maintaining where it's at, even with these high interest rates, the demand is still there for the builders. But that's my point. Is this demand, is this going to affect the demand to the point where the demand drops and now we get less supply?

Starting point is 00:31:49 No, because a lot of these, these are, these are investing, these big investment had, hedge funds have already slowed all that down anyways. They're not investing right now. They're all halting all that anyways. But what it is is to prevent them from if we do do a rate drop right now, going in when we have this low of supply, gobbling it all up. Right.

Starting point is 00:32:07 And then artificially, when the off-roading serendiculous, like, you know, your individuals coming in can't really like, you have to compete with that. This is what I try to do with stuff like this is I try to really slow down and think about the only unintended consequences. Because oftentimes we don't see them. For example, given this is not related, but we'll go in, we'll have politicians or whatever activists go into a third world country and lobby government with the funding of the US government ever to prevent anybody under the age of 12, let's say working, because like child labor laws,

Starting point is 00:32:35 we need to put these in this country. And then everybody celebrates what happens is all those children that were working, they were so poor they had to work. Now they're selling drugs, selling their bodies, or in such terrible poverty that they starve. So it's like you took one thing out that you thought was bad, but what happened was something worse. So I would be very, okay, so this bill denies taxpayers owning 50

Starting point is 00:32:55 or more single family properties. Any tax deduction or interest paid or accrued in connection with any single family resident residential rental property. I like that. Yeah. That's because you don't own 50 yet. I mean, honestly, even if I mean, at that point, it just grew for me as an individual, right? If I got 50 properties already and they put a lot like this, I can't get any more tax benefit after 50,

Starting point is 00:33:15 then, you know, then I guess I got to find other ways to make millions of dollars. That is a pretty large bar. That's a huge bar. And you're not. And the people that you're you're hitting on this are only the people that either want or controlling a fund or people that are uber rich that can afford 50 properties. I want to look at I got to I got to really think about this. I think there's a way around that though you just open a new entity and buy under that entity. Yeah that's how I wonder how to get around company owned all those entities. Something like that. Yeah. They don't know that many they just got to own enough that they can hold up to 50. You can have three. They hold up 50. But you own all three entities. Sure. Does that mean that you own in 150? I don't know, or could you do something like where I have Katrina owns one and then I own

Starting point is 00:33:54 another. You know why I'm saying this by the way, because I'm just saying that you can get around it. You know what? Yeah. You know, I'm saying this. I always can. Right. Because how much influence to these big hedge fund hedge funds have over politicians? I know that to Doug's point it would be interesting on how it's written to where they're all gonna move around Anyways, in all the ends of doing a fucking... You feel better? Or, no, or fucks the guy like me who is trying to get that many. We're like, you know what I'm saying? Like, that guy gets screwed because he doesn't have the ability to navigate exactly.

Starting point is 00:34:19 Exactly. Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised. Well, every time they do something like that, you have to do nothing and write everything. So I'm just like, I mean, to me that has never looked so believable until now. Yeah. I mean, I, I don't know what they said that like, what is that? One was four. You know why? I was 2018 when he said that. I just, it'd be good to see the growth of that, that company and what they've acquired in terms of black rock.

Starting point is 00:34:40 Yeah. I would. Oh, they're one of the, oh, bro. I know, but like, just visually, right would like to see that. Oh, they're one of the, oh bro, I know, but like just visually, right? Like you see that, like, the regard and the other one are like, slow this down. Three of the most powerful companies in the world. Yeah, yeah. I would internationally, truly, it's a dollars. Yeah. And by the way, the reason why this is happening is because it's politically expedient. You have an election coming up and to think that the politicians don't have influence over

Starting point is 00:35:05 the Fed is ridiculous. So you don't want to be, you're not trying to run for office while your economy is tanking. So you're going to try and flare it up with the job. He already has so mad he said that. That's a fact. I mean, it's whoever's in office, listen, I mean, it's not a fact. It's something that we strongly believe. And I wouldn't argue. No, it's something that we strongly believe. And I wouldn't argue.

Starting point is 00:35:25 No, it's on record. We're presidents will make statements, we'll push the Fed, actually, they'll sandbag. They're not supposed to be able to put that way. You're right. You're supposed to be in the, the laws are in place to keep it separated that way.

Starting point is 00:35:37 And so even if they are, there's no quote unquote proof. And so you're going to piss a bunch of people off. Yeah, well, you know, the, I don't just, I mean, it will be really interesting if, you know, because everything says that we shouldn't lower rates, right? We have not, we have not.

Starting point is 00:35:55 We before, No, it would be terrible. It would be terrible. That's why I get mad. That's what the whole point is to the way this conversation started is even if this realtor dork was right. I'm still, I'm still, I'm still mad that these guys and girls that are perpetuating that

Starting point is 00:36:12 message because yeah, in the short term, it benefits their pockets because you're going to have all these people buying homes. But how, how, how small minded are you to not be able to understand? And I, you know, I saw Chris get on in there after I did and started jabbing at this person too. And he's like, this is why realtors should have to take courses in economics because you're the things that you're pushing,

Starting point is 00:36:32 the things that you're hoping for, the things that you're trying to do. Like you should understand the ramifications of that long term. And if you get a bunch, if everybody does run in and buy again in December or January and February, do you guys really understand how not good that is? Like that's not, even if you people that bought,

Starting point is 00:36:51 they get equity in that year. You think that's a good, like short-term gains. I see it, the incentives across the board are not there to allow prices to fall. Even with regular homeowners, I see this my own parents. My parents, honest, hard working people, not big investors. My dad had no education. My mom just went to high school. It's all she did. They worked hard. They saved their money.

Starting point is 00:37:12 Okay, that's it. Even my dad, he'll come over and he'll look at me and he'll be so excited. You know, a house across the street, sold. Do you know much it's sold? Proud because he knows his home is going up in value because that is his retirement essentially. He has a pension, but other than that, his wealth is his home. Do you have any peers in that situation?

Starting point is 00:37:32 Most American, if you look at wealth and then you take out their homes, they most people have anything. Oh yeah, the stats you see on millionaires, people don't understand that like, I think 80% of that is in home. Technically my parents are millionaires with the house that they own is so much.

Starting point is 00:37:45 Yeah, that's right. Because it's in San Jose. That's how most are. Like when you look at the stats on how many millionaires there are in the United States, I forget what I want to say. It's like 80% maybe Doug can fact check me. It's like 80% of that is within, yeah, home equity. So it's like, yeah, look at it.

Starting point is 00:37:59 Look at our property 30 million dollars a year versus have 80 million dollars in the property that they live in. Yeah. Yeah. No, it, no, it's crazy. It's crazy. It's wild. Anyway, I saw something funny on X yesterday. It was so, it wasn't, the actual post itself wasn't funny, but there was comments underneath that that were killing me.

Starting point is 00:38:17 Okay. They were killing me. So there's this young lady, she's probably, so I don't remember who shared it. I want to say, I don't remember. Someone shared it. I follow some like pages that comment on social commentary, and stuff like that. And it went viral. So this is young lady.

Starting point is 00:38:32 She looks like Gen Z. So she's probably early 20s. And she's talking to the camera. It's like a TikTok video. And she's like, you know, I live in East LA and it's this kind of artsy, whatever she says in the video. And she's like, and I've been on dates, you know, with a lot of the men and women. So apparently she dates everybody whatever. And she's

Starting point is 00:38:48 like, and you know, I always off we always split the bill and we're always very equitable and, you know, I pay for the drinks, you pay for the food or whatever. She goes, well, I went on a date with like a bro, bro, like a man's man. He's from this part of LA. I guess she was talking about a part of LA where the dudes are more like kind of old school or whatever. Is there a part of LA, I guess she was talking about a part of LA where the dudes are more like an old school or whatever. Is there a part of LA like that? I know, I'm like, really? I've never been there.

Starting point is 00:39:09 So she's like, and I went on, he's like a real bro bro, especially kept referring to him as she goes, and we go out to eat, and as soon as the bill arrives, he slaps his credit card down. Then we go get drinks,

Starting point is 00:39:19 he's paying for everything. Finally, he's going to the bathroom, and I'm ready to pay for the next round of drinks. He's already paid for everything, and he looks at me, and he gives me his credit card. He goes, here, get us whatever you want.

Starting point is 00:39:27 I'll be right back. And she starts giggling. And she's like, like, in other words, she's falling for this guy. Like, oh my God, I loved it. We're so good, right? So the comments underneath are so funny. Like somebody said, somebody said,

Starting point is 00:39:38 underneath said, wow, he helped her reset the factory settings. You know? He's like, her modern way of thinking, got knocked the fuck out. This is like a guy who was taking care of her. Wow, I got one. She's like, nice. I really like that. This is really nice.

Starting point is 00:39:53 The comments were. Oh, they were killing me. They're like, oh, when the feminist, when the feminist, somebody wrote it, I was like, God. They were brutal, bro. It was so funny. It's funny things as far as on the internet, right?

Starting point is 00:40:07 I saw the one that Jackie shared. I thought was hilarious, which is actually got a bunch of controversy and stuff around it too, which I think is really interesting. So a mother has a daughter who has got a school bully who is stealing her lunch every day and taking it. And I guess the mom went to the school and complained this and that.

Starting point is 00:40:25 They didn't do anything. That's the story. Yeah, they didn't do anything. They could improve that that was happening and the school was like, oh, well, maybe she's losing it. And so of course, as I've frustrated mom, like, no, my daughter's not lying to me. She's this bully is taking her lunch every day.

Starting point is 00:40:38 So her mom's like, all right. So she puts laxatives in the food and gives her kids like lunch money to buy lunch after the fact. And so, you know, sure shit, like keeping eye at the kid. They got mccollinkulking, you know. Oh, so good. And so of course, like, you know, multiple days in a row, this kid's rushing to the bathroom afterwards.

Starting point is 00:40:58 Well, gets out, right? This story gets shared after that. And now there's all this controversy that this mother intentionally poisoned another kid. And now there's all this controversy that this mother intentionally poised in another kid. And I think it's such bullshit. Bullshit, dude. Well, you guys, she did poison the kid. Look, I see both sides of us.

Starting point is 00:41:14 First of all, as a parent, someone's bowling my kid. I know how I feel. Yeah. So I get it. Like I'm not saying I would do the right thing. I wouldn't do it, but it's a big time. In my son, if my son is bowling a little girl and stealing her lunch and the mom poisons my son with

Starting point is 00:41:28 laxatives, fucking, I'm looking at my kids. That's how you learn. Why did he take the lesson? Learn your lesson, shithead. Like you should be taking a little girl's time and you're lucky it was just a diarrhea pill and it wasn't something else. Laxatives can be dangerous, bro, for kids.

Starting point is 00:41:40 It can cause a lot of issues. We're just gonna eat some random food, like you don't know what's in there. Yeah, I know, I know. I'm just saying, you're the good thing. So this wall went viral. There's people on both sides,

Starting point is 00:41:50 just like you're saying right now. And did you hear the way they said to defend it? They said that she should, all she has to say is that, my daughter has been complaining of digestion and stomach issues, so I have been giving her laxatives to help her out. And so shame on him for, she was even gonna admit that. Like it, honestly, it's like, it's not his property. He, he

Starting point is 00:42:11 decided to consume something that he knows nothing about. Yeah, I don't, I don't know. Sound you're smoking if you're defending that side. Listen, listen. Okay. I don't know how old, how old is it? It's six years old. Six years old. Can I shitty? Okay. Now, I get it. Is it? Is that young? I thought it was older. It's older than that. That does kind of change. It's not a fact bro. Six year old. That's the same.

Starting point is 00:42:29 Even 12 year olds, 13 year olds connect really shitty. Let's find out what the age is. Well, that makes it be different. But imagine, listen, listen, you guys, imagine we have a good friend. I'm not going to say his name. We have a good friend who's an honest, hard working. Does it say how old the kid was?

Starting point is 00:42:43 Looking for it right now. Okay. We have a friend of ours. I'm not going to say his name on Eric's. I don't want to air anything out, but we all know him very well. An honest, hard working, does it say how old the kid was? Looking for it right now. We have a friend of ours, I'm not gonna say his name on Eric's, I don't wanna air anything out, but we all know him very well. He's a good guy, he's a good honest man. He has kids, he tries to raise them right. He recently took his kids all their electronics away for, I think it was three months, you know why?

Starting point is 00:43:01 He found out his 13 year old daughter was on this thread with a bunch of other girls and they were bullying this other girl relentlessly. That's his daughter. So you could be a great dad, your kid makes some shitty ass decisions, some other parent puts fucking potentially dangerous. Bro, I, I, doesn't change. I'm a great dad. My son.

Starting point is 00:43:22 I think he's a great kid. My son, bullying a little girl, taking a lunch, gets laxatives and you know what I say? You're lucky it wasn't something that could have killed you. You're lucky you just got some diarrhea son. Because you're even somebody else. Six years old guys. Does it say six?

Starting point is 00:43:36 Six year old man. Oh yeah, it does say six, yeah. You guys, that's fucking it. That's not good. Okay, so is it really six years old? That's what it says. Okay, so that's a different story. That is a different story.

Starting point is 00:43:46 No, six years old. I thought it was like 12 or 13 or, you know, and that range is, to me, that's your form. You know, by the way, you know who got, who like has less the conversation, we're not even talking about, the fucking school. The real issue is why if the mom told the school, no intervention.

Starting point is 00:44:01 Nothing happened. This poor kid was being, you know, a boy. I do want, I do want to admit though, six years old makes a big difference. Because you're talking about such an early age. Yeah, what if you're six year old kids like taking some of the kid's toys, you know what I mean? And then you're, and then you're, you know,

Starting point is 00:44:15 I think the cutoff is about 10 or 12. You do that around 10 or 12, you should know better. I'm serious. I don't disagree with that. Six years old is really young. It's kidding. I mean, you should still know better and you should be better parenting than not let your kid do. She'd like that, but that age, I mean,

Starting point is 00:44:30 at that, okay, if that's how much you do. I'm learning to sin confronting. You know, not doing this like sneaky, right, that's what I'm saying. Okay, you're right, at that age, I'm coming down to the school and I'm gonna confront the parents of the kids to six year old, because at that, and I would want that as, like,

Starting point is 00:44:46 because you're right. I'm not gonna take it out on a kid. Yeah, because maybe my, like, imagine, my son could do some of that, just not knowing better. Not knowing better, doing thinking that he just can, right? Who knows? She could have had a baby.

Starting point is 00:44:55 And I would want a parent to come to me at that young of an age. But he's, he's 10. You know what I would wealth? You know what I would be more happy with? You know what I would say? More happy with the mom putting laxatives in the school administrators. That's where I would be a little more like oh yeah, okay, yeah

Starting point is 00:45:09 Sixes early bro six is early that's fucked and I'm telling you it's dangerous. Laxiots can be dangerous Especially to kids that's really sure if you get even if it's not that that's still a little early because it's like man six years Old kids kids are kids are kids are still figuring things out at that age. I mean, that's like a, it can be totally, I'm gonna tell you something right now. You can be flirting with her, you know, that age goes. You're right, listen, and I but I understand,

Starting point is 00:45:31 as if like again, as a father, I've had situations where my kids had another kid bully them. And my instinct that comes out is, if I were to act on my instinct, I would smack the other kid. Like how terrible would that be? I show up and smack a 10 year old across face, right? I wouldn't do it.

Starting point is 00:45:46 But the instinct I feel inside is like, you made my kid cry, like you threw something at them or you cut their hair or whatever, you know, bullies do. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I get it, but you can't do that. No, I'm six years old too young, bro. I mean, I agree.

Starting point is 00:45:58 That's, that's way too young. I told you guys about the time my sister got bullied. When I was in high school, I was a junior or a senior, she was in eighth grade, and she got jumped by like three girls, and then they terrorized her, and she wouldn't tell me about it, neither would my mom send you out over react. Sure enough, I find out, and I told my sister

Starting point is 00:46:17 to call the girl out after school, and then to page me back then we had pages. And I rolled up to the junior high. And you rolled up with a bike? No, my car. I was, I'm in, I must have been a senior. Oh, you're in high school. Oh, oh, oh.

Starting point is 00:46:31 So these are, these are, how old are you? You're 13? You're like 13, you're red flagger. So these are 13 of kids. I'm like 17 or 18, okay? And I roll up with all my cousins, all my buddies. We drive up and there's this group of girls waiting for my sister to come out.

Starting point is 00:46:47 I wave so my sister sees me. She comes out, I tell her to point out the girl. The girl comes, she's like scared because she sees all his big men. I'm a man at this point, scared. And I told the girl to point out her boyfriend because I felt like this would be a little bit better. She pointed out a boyfriend, I smacked her boyfriend

Starting point is 00:47:03 in front of the whole school. And I said, if you mess with my sister again, I'm going to beat the shit out of your boyfriend. And we left. And I never, nothing ever happened to me. But that was my, so I understand this mom is what I'm trying to say. I can't ever. I feel like there's a lot of bad ideas coming out to you. Yeah. Just like, just people who are listening, don't do any of this stuff. Okay. I listen to you guys. Hey, let's talk about a good idea. You know what I just read?

Starting point is 00:47:26 It's your good idea. You know I just read about red light therapy. Okay, so I was doing the red light earlier. Okay, good. I haven't done it for a while when I did some red light. Yeah. And every time I stand in front of it, like part of me is like, is this like,

Starting point is 00:47:36 if I look into it or whatever, it's helping the eyes. So they actually did studies on this. Yes, now they did studies where the eyes were closed. So the red light does penetrate to a point past the eyelids, but they improved the health of the eyes and they improved vision. So this is why I thought it was interesting

Starting point is 00:47:54 why they, some of them include the goggles. Goggles are like, yeah, glides. Cause I remember when it first came out, I remember asking that, cause you're supposed to do that when you go to like a tanning bed, right? Cause that isn't good here. Maybe the initially thought there was some kind of damage

Starting point is 00:48:08 or something along the way. Well, I think it's so bright, you're probably better off not looking directly into it because the brightness itself... It doesn't bother my eyes at all. It doesn't bother my eyes at all to look at. It's not the same kind of bright as I can see. Well, the point is the studies I read

Starting point is 00:48:21 were not eyes open looking at it. There were eyes closed, but then the red light is, it does penetrate past the skin of the eyelid. And it improved people's eye health and vision. Crazy. I mean, it makes sense. Right. It can affect.

Starting point is 00:48:37 That's right. Any cell that has mitochondria, which is all of them, it's going to improve the health of mitochondria, it's going to improve the health. Do you believe? Okay, so we're obviously, we're fans of the red light. Like we would obviously win a partner with you if we didn't. We were blown, we talked about how blown away we were back then.

Starting point is 00:48:52 Like we didn't believe it with us on bullshit. Do you think that because it seems like the continue to have more and more studies to support all these, I mean, everything from skin to metabolically, to eye health, to hair, to- Insulin sensitivity. Yeah, I mean, dude, does it get to a point where we start to install these into homes and you have like rooms that you just, you get, I mean,

Starting point is 00:49:16 because you could work and do stuff in it. It just, I mean, obviously it makes like kind of a red hue, but it doesn't mean you can't do stuff, right? Like, why would you not start? It's- The market for red light therapies already exploded because the cost of good red light therapy has come down. It used to be, not that long ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago,

Starting point is 00:49:34 the only people that could afford to buy the kind of red light that was in the studies were people who had, you know, $50,000, $100,000 to invest. So you would go to a salon and they would have them and you'd see these at salons. But then companies like Juve came out and you're not paying 50 grand for a panel. It's affordable. Most people could afford one.

Starting point is 00:49:54 And so yeah, it's exploding. In fact, if you, I don't know if you could find the data on red light therapy, you know, the market for it and how much it's exploded. But I think it's, I think it's, it's exploding. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting to think because like if you look at the workplace and you look at where, you know, how it's all been formed into like us staring at a computer screen and sitting down and, you know, I think they got rid of most like cubicle setups and they've tried to make it more open space. And they've learned a little bit from that in terms of like having more community

Starting point is 00:50:26 and not being isolated and like in this type conform. But like the next level to that would be to have like a room like that, I would think. Yeah. Maybe you work in there for like 10 minutes or something and then the next shift kind of comes in and at least you get some benefits while you're forced to be like sort of in this form space.

Starting point is 00:50:43 I would love that my shower air. There you go. Look, I'm in there. What does that say, Doug? There's like a 4.1% growth year over year. Now, what year does that start? 2020. What was the sales per year there?

Starting point is 00:50:55 288 million in 2021, 313 million. Wow. It's exploding. 4% growth year over year is massive. Yeah. I would convert my bathroom. That's growth year-over-year is massive. Yeah. I would convert my bathroom, that's what I would do. Just having actual. Yeah, like the whole bathroom would close it.

Starting point is 00:51:10 The amount of times that I'm in there for shower or restroom, it just, that would be the lie. And it doesn't, like you don't need, like you're never doing like work or watching TV or doing something like that in the bathroom, so I feel like the, like the having that color. You do work, but you know. Yeah, different kind of work.

Starting point is 00:51:24 Yeah, but I mean, think about the amount of time that you're in there. I shower every day at least twice a day. So there's, you know, 15 minutes each time. So it's 30 minutes, you go the bathroom. You shower again, you know, at least every guy, every dad escapes the bathroom for at least 23, yesterday, my son.

Starting point is 00:51:40 That is the moon. Bro, that's such a sore spot. Can you not talk about that? Bro, I'm gonna, dude, why did you get Joe that? Bro, I'm gonna do women here. Why did you get drove over this recently? I'm what do you mean recently? Hey, always. I know Katrina like, yeah, we I got matter of the day because it's like a lot of time there. I first get home, especially if I come home from traffic.

Starting point is 00:51:54 I go, is that like that's I get home from work. It's like and that's the first thing I want to go do. It goes upstairs to our bathroom. Yeah. Way from everybody else and close the door. And it's like it never fails. I come in, you know, kiss her higher with that, and then that's the, I go straight up, that goes straight upstairs, and then like,

Starting point is 00:52:10 as soon as I shut, sit down, I hear, honey, honey, honey. I'm like, ah, just leave me alone for 15 minutes. You know what, you know what's funny though? Let me ask you guys this, I didn't realize as much, like that part of it was that, like a break. I just did that. It never was.

Starting point is 00:52:28 It's not that you can point it out. It wasn't until I became a dad. It became that, what's ever been a dad became a safe space? You can't escape anywhere. It used to be yard work or something. I'll do that sometimes, but I'm like,

Starting point is 00:52:43 it's the weather's not great or whatever, like the safe place is always a bathroom. You just know like, oh, gross, I'm not gonna go baller you. I'm like, yeah, it's gross, terrible. You know, so. Oh, yeah. Got my own like, you know, sink sherry. Oh, that's terrible.

Starting point is 00:52:59 Anyway. So was in conversation with the guys at Ned because just spoiler alert working on something that might drop and shoot it. Yeah, what is that coming out? By the way, where is it? I'm not gonna. Is it in here?

Starting point is 00:53:13 Is it in here? I'm hoping. I don't think so. Yeah, no, we got it. Yeah, great. I've actually really enjoyed it. So, you know what I like about them? They are, they're so far above and beyond

Starting point is 00:53:24 with other companies and products because they understand not just cannabinoids. First off, most companies understand CBD. They don't understand CBC, CBG, all the other cannabinoids. But they understand all the cannabinoids, plus they understand how they all work together. Plus they understand the involvement of terpenes. Terpenes are what give hemp and cannabis, it's smell. And I've talked about this before on the show that it's probably the terpenes for people who smoke weed or have cannabis. It's probably not the sativa or indica that's making one make you feel like you're couch

Starting point is 00:54:03 locked, they won't give you energy or whatever. It's probably the terpenes and how they interact with the cannabinoids. So when you smell something and it's got a familiar smell like pine or skunk or it's got a lemony smell or whatever, these are all based off the terpenes. When you ingest or burn terpenes or whatever, in combination with cannabinoids, they produce different effects. And I know that what's cool about these guys is we're talking about a certain product with a specific goal, and they're talking about

Starting point is 00:54:30 the terpins that they want in there, because that's what they do. And so they just... So I kill it, man. I had the opportunity obviously being in the space as early as I was to see a lot of companies up and coming. And there's only two companies that have impressed me to this level.

Starting point is 00:54:46 One was Dosis and the other one is Ned. They were this far ahead of everybody else of actually paying attention to this research as it was coming out and actually starting to create products and see the difference with the terpenes that you're talking about. Like that was something nobody talked about. No one talked about that in the space until Dosis and Ned. Those are the only two that I had ever seen that actually were evaluating that in the decision of like, oh, what's strange should we put in this? This is a sleep replicated and formulated.

Starting point is 00:55:15 Yes. It was like scientific. It was just like, oh, this is a, I don't know, Captain Crunch, whatever, like name, strain that they came up with. By the way, I noticed that about myself a long time ago, just with cannabis that there's a certain strain type, and it has a specific smell,

Starting point is 00:55:32 that would produce anxiety with me, no matter what. And then I thought it was the strain, but now I know it's a smell. So if I smell something and I smell it, and I know this is gonna make me anxious, I'm not gonna have it. And it totally, I think weed smokers have known this for a long time. Everybody has their favorite strain. You know. I'm not gonna have it. Well, anecdotally, I think wheat smokers have known this for a long time.

Starting point is 00:55:45 Everybody has their favorite strain. You know what I'm saying? And some might attribute, oh, the smell, or the taste of it, or whatever. But the turpines are what give the smell. Yeah. That's the smell. By the way, the turpines are found in lots of other plants too.

Starting point is 00:55:56 For example, limonine, I think is the name of it. It's a turpine that is uplifting. It's found in lemon. Sour D. In lemon. Sour D I think has. Yeah, it has that. Lemonine and there was something else, pineal.

Starting point is 00:56:08 I think it might be the other one that's in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not sure. That's a popular one. It was huge. It's always been. I mean, I think that that, so that was like the kind of uplifting and you know, you get the laughing and energy type of feel from it.

Starting point is 00:56:23 And the other end of the spectrum will be something like GDP, right? It would be the opposite, which would have the kind of heavy sedative type of feeling that's more recovery, relax, or not, which is granddaddy purple. Those two, I feel like were the two polar opposite ones. All right, so we're gonna do a shout out to somebody that we've talked about before.

Starting point is 00:56:40 But the reason why, well, he's got a new book. So let's talk about that first. So it's Ben Greenfield. His book is Boundless Kitchen. Love the guy, great guy, super smart. Doug, that book you see, now what, it's bound, so I'm assuming Ben Greenfield, he's gonna write about foods first off that tastes good

Starting point is 00:56:58 because he's a really good cook. Yeah, but also in terms of their value. You can't help bio-optimize. Yeah, so I think all the recipes are designed to be healthy. Yeah. But he has a lot of recipes that kind of satisfy that desire you have for, say, fried food or desserts and things like that. Interesting.

Starting point is 00:57:16 For example, I'm just looking through his book right now, having actually done any of these yet, but they look very, very good. Crunchy chicken cracklings, that sounds interesting. Oh, okay. He has a reverse sear, rib eye, southern buttermilk, mostly guilt-free fried chicken. Wow, mostly. And then he has a bunch of desserts.

Starting point is 00:57:34 He has a minojelli, ojello. Sorry. Deep-sleep gummies, homemade. Oh, wow. You got a recipe for that. What are the ingredients for that? What are the deep-sleep gummies of? Let's see here. Lavender. Oh wow. You had a recipe for the ingredients for that. That's cool. What are the deep sink gummies of? Let's see here. Um, lavender. One cup. I'll just give you the ingredients.

Starting point is 00:57:50 Tarte cherry juice. They're anti-inflammatory. Lessethin. Honey, gelatin powder. Uh, adaption of choice, which I probably asked for gone to ask for gone or something like that. CBD. Okay. And powdered glycine, which is option. Oh, yeah. But glycine helps us sleep too. Yeah. So I think it's very interesting little book. I think I'm going to try some of these actually. Interesting. Looks really well done too, huh? Yeah. It's fantastic. Anyway, you guys see the video of him on social media. He always does a weird thing. Injecting his balls. Oh, I don't know what he's doing. He's a bowser, his pee. Yeah, I think he's just getting the pee shot.

Starting point is 00:58:27 No, it's his balls. He's not ready. What did he say? Oh, I thought he was going to be a pro. His balls? I thought maybe not. Maybe you're right. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:58:36 Well, we went from coffee in a minute. So it's, I mean, is that worse? They're better than his peepee. Well, would you rather get a needle in your, in your, in your, in your wing or the, in the frame or the beans? If I had to choose, come on, dude, you want the, definitely the beans, not the frame. What? Bro, if I, if I flicks you like this, I feel like I'm with you.

Starting point is 00:58:56 I don't want to mess with my, yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm, yeah, which one's gonna hurt more about that? I, a, one of them I could live without, the other one I can't, I'm like, I'm like, I'm the killer. Okay, okay. So then that's more, I'm more protective can't, I'm like, I'm the killer. Okay, okay. So then that's more protective of that. I'm talking about a painful pain. I've got two balls if one of them

Starting point is 00:59:08 doesn't work after that, we could, we're okay. You're like, what's his name? Lance Armstrong. No, no, no, I'm talking about from a pain perspective. Come on. They probably numb you up somehow. I'm sure. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:59:20 Either way. I'm glad we're having this conversation. Yeah, you're welcome, Doug. You got it. By the way, the way they numb you up, when you go in for the procedures, is the massage Nova Cane gel on you. You imagine that you're sitting there?

Starting point is 00:59:33 You're doctor coming up. It's not working. It's not a numb, yeah. It's never anybody you're excited about. That's what it's like. It's never known. No, bro. I told you about the Turkish guy.

Starting point is 00:59:43 Yeah, it's always that guy. It's it's always that guy with big fat fingers and a very young. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's some Swedish model. I'm here to rub your novocate on your notes. We ran out of triple X gloves. Sorry, I gotta use my bare hand, but I washed it. Don't worry. Yeah, anyway, birth that comes in yikes. Probiotics now have been long known to be beneficial for help, they help with digestion, inflammation,

Starting point is 01:00:08 skin health, and much more. There's a company out there called Seed, they're the world's leader in the technology around probiotics, they're the world's best probiotic, hands down. If you want to use a probiotic and you want to get all the amazing benefits that you see in the studies, go with Seed,

Starting point is 01:00:24 go to Seed.com, forward slash mind pump, use the go with seed, go to seed.com-forward-slash-mind-pump. Use the code MindPump. Get 30% off your first month's order. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Carrie from Canada. Hey Carrie, how can we help you? Hey guys, first I want to do the obligatory thank you. Well first of all, I'm super nervous. I'm just going to read what I wrote. I've been listening to Mind Pump for over four years and I always learn something and laugh at something in every episode. So even though you've ruined every other podcast for me, you wrote me a lot of joy and a lot of value. So it's worth it. So thank you guys. So I have a question about getting the most out of a long-term low-volume daily lifting

Starting point is 01:01:08 routine. I'll tell you a bit about my background and my current situation and then I'll go into my question. So my background, I started lifting 12 years ago when I was 25 to counteract the catabolic effects of my daily one and a half hour bite commute. As soon as I started lifting, I knew I'd never stop, and I've been a lifestyle lifter ever since, working out to support my physical and mental health. I don't pursue aggressive aesthetic or athletic goals, but I like to feel strong, and I try to push myself when I can, always aiming for progressive overload in some form. My current situation is, for the past few years, life's been more stressful and pushing myself

Starting point is 01:01:49 has gotten harder. I'm also not 25 anymore, so committing to 28, to committing to our long workouts that I might not be able to properly recover from and need to plan my day and my week around has gotten less and less feasible for me. I've purchased 10 maps programs and I really want to do them all. and need to plan my day and my week around has gotten less and less feasible for me. I've purchased 10 maps programs and I really want to do them all. I've finished antibiotic and performance and I really like them. But right now the only program I've seen

Starting point is 01:02:15 to be able to follow consistently is maps 15. My work is demanding and the only way I can guarantee I won't miss a workout is by doing it first thing in the morning before I can get sidetracked by deadlines. My daily workout is essential for my sanity, but I need to keep workouts short and low volume where I start my day physically text and stressed about time. I've done maps 15 and maps 15 advanced twice each in the past year and I love how they make me feel. After a summer of travel and inconsistent workouts, I've just started Maps 15 Advanced again. And my question is, I know the golden rule of strength and hypertrophy training is that everything works but nothing works forever. So I'm wondering what I should do after finishing this round of Maps 15, besides just going

Starting point is 01:03:03 back and do it again. What can I do to maintain effective and varied programming within my time and energy constraints? Can I modify exercises in Maps 15 to train other skills and modalities? Is it possible to make effective low volume daily versions of other Maps programs I've been wanting to do? Like Map Old Time or Map Strength strengths. I'd love to have some programming suggestions so I can keep this work at schedule working for me and avoid hitting a plateau or falling into a rut.

Starting point is 01:03:34 What a great question. Yeah. Great, great question. And things for the context that made a big difference. And you, you're, you're so spot on. Great ideas. You've already figured out your body and what's working for you. And the fact that you own 10 programs already, you have this perfect amount of types of exercises that we have specific adaptations that we're trying to accomplish that you can pull from.

Starting point is 01:03:59 And you can literally build it as if it was a Maps 1520 style. So, for example, you brought up strong, there's windmills in there, right? It's a very unique exercise. Nothing stops you from pulling something out of Maps 15 that you've already done for the last year to two years, consistently, and say, you know what, I'm gonna put windmills in now

Starting point is 01:04:21 because I wanna have some better rotational strength there. Or let's say you take something from math performance, you're like, you know that matrix lunge, I don't really do anything, you know, laterally, I focus everything in the sagittal plane. So I wanna do something that, so I have some lateral stability and strength. So I'm gonna put the matrix lunge in there,

Starting point is 01:04:36 I'm gonna pull out the traditional squats. Like, I think you have figured out what works really well for your body as far as the amount of volume to support your overall health. And you absolutely can continue to see gains and strength by doing exactly what you're kind of thinking about already. Now, Kerry, the context helped a lot. So workout programming can seem simple,

Starting point is 01:04:58 but there's a lot of variables to consider. So one question you had was, can I just take other programs and break them up into small chunks? You know, but when you do them one day after another, it does change the programming to the point where it might actually make the workout need to change or it doesn't work anymore. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to figure out how to make it effective. Right. So with Maps 15, the advanced version even, here's an easy way for you to modify it, okay?

Starting point is 01:05:27 You could break each movement down into a squat type movement. Oh, this is all types of squats, back squats, front squats, split stance squats, which are all lunges, lateral type squat. Those are all squatting movements. There's hip-hinging movements, all kinds of dead lifts, single leg toe touches,

Starting point is 01:05:43 stiff leg and dead lifts, good mornings mornings, they all qualify in that category. You have overhead pressing type movements, all the exercises under that, horizontal pressing movements, all the movements that are under that, rowing movements, all the exercises under that. Then what you could do is you could swap out an exercise. If maps 15 calls for a barbell squat and you're this is your fourth time through, you could switch it out for another squat time movement. It could be a lunch, it could be a front squat, it could be a Bulgarian split stance squat, for example, you could do the same thing

Starting point is 01:06:15 with the hip hinge, the overhead presses, the rows, the horizontal presses, the rotation, and so on. So that's a very easy way to change the workout as you continue to cycle through this style of programming, which seems to be perfectly appropriate for you. I think you need to stay this way. Okay. Okay. Cool. So how about, like, I got old time, like, the day you launched it, I got super excited

Starting point is 01:06:41 and bought it immediately, and I'm not quite sure what to do with it now. Do you guys have any recommendations for turning that into like a daily program, like a 20, 30 minutes a day kind of program? We'd have to break it up. I'd have to really look at it and it would take some thought. But you would still apply kind of what Salah saying is that you would take one of those. And because Map Strong does have, I'm excuse me, Maps Old Time has some unique movements, for example, like the wind meal

Starting point is 01:07:06 I would probably categorize the the wind meal and it's like a hip hinge movement Yeah, and so it would replace like a deadlift or a single like toe touch or movement like that So all you still would you still would follow like the way instead of looking at old time You know, I want my program to be like that. How do I make it into a mass 15 think of Mass 15 is the is the protocol how you follow and then look at the exercises that are in the other programs and how to switch them out for Mass 15 is your blueprint. We figured that out you figure that out you have figured out that that that's that amount of volume And now all you need to figure out is oh if that's some of the movements and old time you interest you Okay, what what what what what can I replace them? Yeah, and it's kind of tough,

Starting point is 01:07:46 that's a tough program to use as an example because it really is about the skill of these, like you need to movements. And so like we actually had to reverse engineer a lot of those skills and bring it all the way to like the very first components to learn. And then, you know, pragmmatically take you one step at a time to progress, so you could take one of those movements,

Starting point is 01:08:10 is my point to this, and basically put that into your 15 minute protocol, and take it at the very beginning. So just, and you'll see how it all lines up throughout the program, of like leading you up to a two-hand anyhow, or whatever, and so you're going to start from basically from the basis of like doing a windmill and like how to kind of get like acquire that skill. So you would start with that and then progress it as the program kind of lays out.

Starting point is 01:08:41 But in comp at the same time, you want to also like structure the rest of your workout, just like mass 15 already has laid out. So that would just be like one portion of that that you would alter. An easy way to, for us to, to solve this to help you is actually to put you in the private form. You already have 10 programs. So you have plenty to pull from. And the best thing to do is like, Hey, you guys, I'm thinking about pulling this exercise out of 15 and replacing it with this from old time

Starting point is 01:09:08 If you're not sure and we'll and you tag us and we'll answer Wow, that'd be awesome. Yeah, yeah, well, just that'll just make it easy I mean we're gonna put you I'll have Doug put you in the form for free and then when you are building your routine Like literally just hey if you don't know right there might be some that are obvious, right? You might go, oh, obviously I could take this overhead press out and I could put a Z press in because it's so similar enough that I get it, but you are gonna have some movements to Justin's point in old time, where you're like,

Starting point is 01:09:36 well, what should I replace? I think there's a very few actually. I think most of the movements in there will make sense to you. There's one handed deadlift as a hip hinge. Yeah. You know, a bent press, you could probably put in either as a hip hinge or as an overhead press, depending on what the programming

Starting point is 01:09:52 looks like for maps of teen. That would be a challenging one. Seasaw, I mean, that's an overhead press or pressing, you know, kind of vertical pressing movement. You just need to do phase one. Like there's like, what, six phases are so like, it's so you just start like the version of it in phase one and then kind of work your way through.

Starting point is 01:10:08 Yeah. But in the forum, if you're in the forum and you're communicating with us, we'll build it together with you. Because we're not looking at it right now, it's a little bit dimple for us to be, oh, put this here, do that there. But if you go through it and you're like,

Starting point is 01:10:20 hey, okay, I get what you guys are saying, I'm gonna follow the Maps 15 basically protocol and I just wanna start to integrate some of these movements for old timing, literally just run it by us and we'll tell you if that's a good idea or not. Okay, that's great. Yeah, because I've been working out for so long

Starting point is 01:10:35 and I've tried so many different moves and sometimes I just don't know if something is, if I'm progressing or not. Like, I've done a lot of things before. I think this was the reason why I was so interested in doing the old time one. Like, I switched the overhead press for Z-press or switch squat for Bulgarian split squat, things like that. Like, I do that all the time.

Starting point is 01:10:59 And sometimes I just don't know if it's working or not. So yeah, that's what I was looking for some feedback. Because yeah, I just, depending on the situation, like sometimes I'm traveling, I have to modify the way that I do my work out, I have to modify the equipment that I'm using. And I keep doing the kind of the same program, plugging in different movements,

Starting point is 01:11:21 and I'm just trying to figure out how to optimize the effectiveness. So. So you do that and you string it like three to four weeks. So if you do those swap outs, so you give yourself a chance to kind of get good at those movements. That's a great point. And Carrie, I want you to trust your intuition a little more. Yeah, I think based off of what you're saying.

Starting point is 01:11:38 I know. Yeah, you're on track. Yeah, I mean, based off this conversation, I think you, I think you've got a pretty good grip on what's working for. I mean, you said a few things. I've noticed that working out a little every day is good for my mental health, for my stress. It's not too much volume.

Starting point is 01:11:53 It gives me the energy that I need. Like, that's your body telling you, like this is what you need to do. So I think that's the protocol for you. Until your lifestyle changes and the context changes, I think continue on that, you know that two or three exercises a day, type of protocol until things radically change and then you need to change the workout.

Starting point is 01:12:12 But for now, that's it. Okay, great. So just keep on swapping in some other things from different programs. 100%. Okay, great. Thank you guys so much. We'll see you in the forum, Carrie.

Starting point is 01:12:22 Yeah. We'll see you guys in the forum. Bye. Bye. Bye. Actually, I tell you that that maps 15 format, I think is probably the email. It's gonna be the best, most appropriate, mainstream format for people.

Starting point is 01:12:37 It's game changer and it's like, people are just now kind of like figuring that out. You know what I think we're finding, which is really interesting, which I think this was by accident, I don't think when we were, we thought of a lot of things when we were building it, right? But one of the things that I think we underestimated

Starting point is 01:12:53 is the amount of stress outside of exercise that people have in their lives today versus say 20 years ago. It's more than we thought. It is. And I think that's why we're seeing such huge responses from people going, oh my god, this program's amazing and so many people who thought it wasn't enough volume that are seeing huge gains from it is just because I don't think people are factoring

Starting point is 01:13:16 in all the other stress they got going in their life as as something that could be hindering their problems. 100% and the data on strength training is clear. It's like fatigue reduces the effectiveness of strength training's primary goal, which is to build strength. Unless you're looking to build endurance, fatigue is the enemy. And I think the average, most people,

Starting point is 01:13:38 I'm going to make the argument now that most people are going to be better off doing a little every day than a lot some days. And it also simultaneously fits people's schedules better anyway. So this format, this maps of team format, which you can interchange exercises and intensity and all that stuff, I think that's the format of the future for the average, for most people to go. She's on to gold with the way that she's approaching it.

Starting point is 01:14:01 Our next color is crystal from Arkansas. Hey crystal, how can we help you? Hey You know, I hit your protein goals this morning because I'm coming for you with a lot of questions. Oh man. I'm good All right, let's see your brain pills and everything make them good. Let's see how Okay, so I'm a crystal trainer. I have a garage gym. This is where I train all my clients. I run about 22 clients in here. My big question right now is last year I jumped into powerlifting just because I really think as a trainer you just grow a ton more when you throw yourself in the situation. So, jumping in it set a few-stay record, got hooked, of course, couldn't walk away. So, I just set two bench press records in two different federations, and I feel like

Starting point is 01:14:53 I want to take a little bit of a break from powerlifting, and I might want to jump into bodybuilding next year just to grow more. You know, just not so much is that where my interest is, just so much is I can grow more as a trainer, jumping into something like that. I hadn't fully pulled the trigger because my last powerlifting meet was a lot harder than I wanted it to be, and mentally it was more than I signed up for. So I had to drop weight classes last second. So I hadn't fully committed to the bodybuilding trigger yet. But when I wanted my question here is, where do you guys, what program do you feel like

Starting point is 01:15:32 I should be running while I'm making that choice? Like I'm just struggling right now where I should be and what I should be doing because I haven't pulled the trigger in either way. And so my workouts are just kind of mainly how lifting base to that's where I've been sitting for the last you know six months but I bought the RGB bundles for the Black Friday program so I just been kind of playing around with some of those but I haven't committed

Starting point is 01:15:57 to any of those either. I just wanted to talk to y'all and see which I think I should be running for now till I kind of pull the trigger on bodybuilding. Yeah, I think the RGB bundles perfect. I think that's exactly I mean I don't think that now, till I kind of pull the trigger on bodybuilding. Yeah, I think the RGB bundle is perfect. I think that's exactly, I mean, I don't think that's exactly what I did to get ready for a show. And the way I treated it was anabolic and performance was off season.

Starting point is 01:16:14 So while I'm trying to build, build the metabolism, build as much muscle, and then aesthetic was getting ready for prep. So that's kind of how I, I think you might really benefit from App Cemetery. If you've been doing powerlifting for so long, the, because it's so bilateral, I think a unilateral based program might give you the balance that'll really help a lot with your stage presentation, with, you know, balance in the body.

Starting point is 01:16:37 Symmetry would be another option. The most important thing, especially considering you're a trainer, heading into the idea of potentially competing is gonna be all diet. Like as far as programs, that's a great suggestion that Sal said, there's a lot of different combos that you can do, maps aesthetic is designed to sculpt the physique, but bodybuilding shows

Starting point is 01:16:58 are one in the off season. How well of a job that you do of addressing any of your weak points, right? So any in balances, if you have overly developed shoulders compared to your hamstrings or whatever. So, looking at your body, trying to be as symmetrical as possible and building muscle in those areas to balance it out. But most importantly, it's going to be understanding how to diet first show. That's the hardest part. And that's the part, and where most people make a mistake clients and trainers and competitors is heading into a prep in a non advantageous metabolic position meaning you only eat

Starting point is 01:17:33 1900 to 2000 calories and you're at the you know 20% body fat range and you want to get ready for a show like that's just not a good position for a female to be at in the low, you know, under 2000 calories and over 20% body fat and getting ready to get on stage and then they're going right into a prep. You're just going to hit a wall. You're just not, you're not going to be able to lean out as much as you need to be ready. So getting yourself in a metabolic position where you're consuming 26 to 2900 sometimes 3000 calories. I have some of my females eating in the off season so that when we get ready for a show, I've got plenty of room to work with to keep you healthy

Starting point is 01:18:13 and still cut calories. If you, and I get so many people that would want to hire me. And the first question I always ask them is where is your calories at right now? And if they tell me things like, oh, I'm at 1900 calories and you you're at a 20% body fat range, which is not a bad place,

Starting point is 01:18:28 but it's still a long ways from where we need to be for a stage. It's just too much. Do you know where you're at with that? As far as my calories. Yeah. I really need to be honest. I don't pay attention to my calories.

Starting point is 01:18:42 I'm really just protein-gold focused, but I'm well over 2000. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really just protein goal focused, but I'm well over 2000. Yeah, I'm hitting my protein every day. So I'm well over, I'm probably 2500 a day. Yeah, I mean, to be strong like you are. By the way, what was your record at 132 pounds? What you said you hit? So much press records.

Starting point is 01:19:00 So I did two in two weeks. I did the 140, two pound class class and I benched 137 pounds. And then I dropped way into the 132 pound class and I benched, I think it was 126 pounds that day. Nice, nice. I failed on 132, yeah. You know, the two things, because I obviously have ran our power lift program. My favorite things about running like a power lifting routine

Starting point is 01:19:27 and my favorite things about running bodybuilding is the different things that I got as a coach and trainer. From power lifting, that sharpened my sword for programming perspective like that. When you, the type of programming that you get from power lifters and like ours that we have, and what you learn from going through that, that you have experienced yourself,

Starting point is 01:19:46 is like really understanding good detail program. For bodybuilding, it's all diet what I learned. That's right. Right now, you actually have a winning physique on stage. You already have it. It's literally just carving it down to reveal all that hard work you've already put in. So that's what you're going to learn on the nutritional side,

Starting point is 01:20:07 going hands on it, even all the knowledge had from books, it doesn't compare to what I learned like going through it. So that's, and from a diet perspective, I think that's the most, the thing that you should focus on the most and you're going to get the most value from from like as far as a coach and a trainer, is nutrition manipulation. Like that's what I got from bodybuilding, for sure. 100%.

Starting point is 01:20:30 Yeah, that's totally my point of view is looking into it too. And I mean, I just learned, I mean, I feel like I grew so much as a trainer doing powerlifting that I'm just like, I'm eager to get more. You know what I mean? I'm like, okay, what else can I jump into? I love that.

Starting point is 01:20:44 I love that. I love that. And I think that's a very healthy approach to going into something like a sport like that because that sport can be very unhealthy, but going into it as the mindset of I'm going into to educate myself. Yeah, it'll be great. That's a good. That's a very good mindset to go into something like bodybuilding for sure. Perfect. Perfect. Well Well thank you guys. So like I should be running an animal like in performance until I pull the trigger and then jump into aesthetic when I'm ready to prep. Yeah, I like that. I'm going to have, I'm going to have, I'm going to have, I think, programs that are fine. Oh, you know, Sal did suggest symmetry.

Starting point is 01:21:16 Yeah, symmetry would be a good idea. I'll have Doug send you over symmetry. So you have access to that. I think symmetry is just a good idea to follow. Perfect. Any after powerlifting, anyway. It's also a great, you're a trainer. It's a great program to have

Starting point is 01:21:28 because it's very, very good for your clients to help them out with them in balances. So you'll learn a lot from having symmetry. So I think that's a good value ad. And then I'm gonna put you in our forum too. And then are you, Chris, are you already signed up for the free three day course that we're doing for trainers? Bet your ass I am. All right, good girl. All right, good girl. All right, we'll see you there. Are you already signed up for the free three day course that we're doing for trainers?

Starting point is 01:21:49 Alright good girl. Thank you. We'll see you there Perfect. Alright. Thank you. Thank you That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, no you're right. I mean if she's already been competing in powerlifting training that long She's strong. She's got the muscle Yeah, I mean you can see you know her build already. Like that's it. I mean, you know, it's funny because I know that's an area that I think, like the body builders that are out there, I mean, that's how they market and sell themselves is that they have like this magical workout routine or like, you know, this hat. It's like, it's, it's diet in that world.

Starting point is 01:22:18 It's diet in powerlifting. It is programming. Yeah. Very much so programming. Like, you can easily fuck up a powerlifting meet because you don't know how to program correctly You and you can easily have a shitty workout program and actually put together a pretty bad-ass physique for stage if you have diet You can also mess it up with a bad diet and have the best work on that's right You could have the you could have the most perfect progressively overloaded program and everything like that

Starting point is 01:22:40 But you don't have a dialed in diet or you don't have a healthy metabolism going into it and you terrible. Our next color is Zach from Ohio. What's up, Zach? What a help you. Hey, yeah. Thank you guys for taking my call. This is awesome to be with you and I'll get right in. Thank you. So my brother, he's been preaching me about you guys for years. And finally this summer, I got hooked and loved doing your stuff.

Starting point is 01:23:09 So far, I've run through anabolic. I'm in the middle of performance right now. Most consistent, I've ever exercised. I'm loving everything right now, especially just the love just lifting weights, seeing how heavy I could get. But I'd also be lying if I wasn't hoping a few pounds would come off in the process so far. So far, I fluctuated consistently in about a five pound range.

Starting point is 01:23:37 Would love to, I'm about 230 right now, five nine. Would love to lose about 30 pounds. And I hear you guys talking a lot about reverse dieting, but usually I hear it in the context of, I don't know, someone who wants to go from like 15% down to 10% or something like that. So first off, someone who is in more of my situation where it's like, I think the scale I have says about 30% is reverse dieting, still something that you do with that or you just, you know, I don't know. And kind of on top of that, my situation is a little unique because I go to a school where

Starting point is 01:24:16 all our meals are given to us, so I don't really have dietary control. I don't really have a way to cow calories or anything like that. I just, I try to aim for about 200 grams of protein a day, and that's about the best I can kind of gauge right now, but even that sometimes is hard to do just based on what's being served that day. So yeah, I just kind of wanted to get your thoughts on those kinds of things. Zach, how are you hitting the 200 grams of protein? If your meals are already prepared like what kind of control. I guess do you have what are we working with? Yeah, so I mean it's so we get three meals a day

Starting point is 01:24:54 Some days, you know, we'll start with like eggs eggs and sausage, you know lunch will be something like chicken Dinner will be something meatloaf ribs, maybe more chicken. Other days though, it's like you're hoping it's like oatmeal, deli wraps for lunch, and then dinners like lasagna. So it's just every day is a little bit unique, and I'm just kind of hoping. So I have some protein powder. Okay. Yeah. So protein powder is how you have that. Yeah, you're an example of someone who I would definitely utilize that as a tool. So here's the deal with reverse dieting. The idea is with reverse dieting is to give yourself a calorie surplus, an appropriate one,

Starting point is 01:25:38 to fuel a metabolism boost through muscle building. And then from there, get your metabolism or your calories to a point where you can safely cut from and end up in a sustainable place. Okay. I don't know how many calories you're eating now or where that looks for you and if you're comfortable cutting from there, like if you feel like you could eat less than you are now, and it's sustainable for you. You could go on a cut and just see how you feel and take it from there. Because of the lack of control over your diets, it's gonna be a little bit more challenging.

Starting point is 01:26:13 So, if I was in your situation, I'm trying to think, what would I do if I was in your situation? Well, okay, I feel like too, we might be missing something here too. You're in college, you say, right? You're in college, so I'm school, yeah. So, okay, candy, ice cream, or beer, what is it?

Starting point is 01:26:30 Like what is it? Where? Well, he says he's a Catholic seminar. I don't think either of any of the, well definitely not. Hey, we have a bar. Whiskey is really good. Yeah, I was gonna say that.

Starting point is 01:26:38 Hey, don't be fooled, bro. Don't be fooled. That's right, Catholic drink with the Catholic. So what's one of the three, or is it all three? Usually not ice cream, but I'm pretty much cut beer out as well. Um, candy though, definitely, you know, that'll come up sometimes, but, um, in general, I've done a decent job at cutting back on a lot of that stuff. So, um, tip, and this is including myself in this category, I, when I, what I, what

Starting point is 01:27:03 I tend to do is the worst situation. A lot of times it has to do because the tiety signal that you get from protein, the days that I over consume calories are also the days that I miss my protein intake. You listed a day that would be challenging, right? Oatmeal, lasagna, and a wrap. That's low protein and a lot of carbohydrates right in that day. And then that's the day also.

Starting point is 01:27:28 I eat the whole box of my canyikes that night. You know what I'm saying? Like that's, so it's like a double whammy. I over consume calories and I miss my protein take. A lot of times when someone is in a situation where they have, they're limited to what they have access to food wise, they're in college. This is where the challenge becomes,

Starting point is 01:27:45 is one, it's already limited. And then the day that you don't do a good job, maybe hitting your protein take, is also the day that you over consume on the sugars or alcohol or whatever it is, right? So I think really starting to peer into that, I think something that will be super beneficial to you to ride out the gates if you've never done it

Starting point is 01:28:03 is to download an app like Fat Secret and just start inputting. And just because you don't have a scale or maybe you don't have access to it, you could still get a good gestimation of like, what you are consuming. And many times just that awareness is enough to get you to kind of shift some of the habits

Starting point is 01:28:23 and behaviors, like you start to realize, like, oh wow, it's like Adam was right. Like, it's not that candy is making me fat or candy is not letting me get to my, it's like literally I do it on the worst times. And if I could just discipline myself to not allow myself to have the candy on the days I also miss my protein intake,

Starting point is 01:28:40 I think I'd be in a better place. And so I think that's a good place to start. Now the key with what Adam's saying is, if you make some changes, if you cut a few things out that you think you can cut out, like candy, for example, or whatever, is to do it consistently long enough so that you can start to see an effect. Because what people will do is it'll cut something out

Starting point is 01:28:59 for a couple of weeks, not see much movement and throw it back in, but it takes a lot longer than that. So, I mean, you could do a very easy cut. And what I mean by easy is a gradual one, by simply removing, you know, the big offenders. You know, if you're looking at the dying, you say, well, today's a little zongy a day, instead of having two pieces, I'll have one piece. You know, in candy was the other example or whatever. Or just cutting the portions sizes down by maybe cutting out

Starting point is 01:29:25 the non-essentials like carbohydrates, and just doing it consistently and then see what happens. See how your body responds, but if you did it like that, I think you would see a nice gradual, awesome body fat and probably not much of a negative impact on your strength. That's, I mean, that's exactly how I would see it as like, you know, when the options are not so ideal,

Starting point is 01:29:45 like that's kind of just a natural signal for you to kind of lessen the portion or, you know, maybe not consume quite as much for that day. But yeah, to load up on your protein days as much as you can and just kind of like, un-delay'd it like that as it presents itself. Are you, now, are you studying to be a priest? Is that what you're going to school for? Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Do you know Father Steve, who works at worship word on fire who produces the word on fire podcast? I know of him. I've never met him or anything. He's the but he's the buff just priest I've ever known. Yeah. Now I've listened to y'all's episodes with like Bishop Aaron and stuff and so

Starting point is 01:30:18 those are great episodes. Very cool. You have you have access to a gym too and everything, huh? Yeah, we have a gym. We have a we have a decent gym at the seminary and then also we have access to a gym too and everything, huh? Yeah, we have a decent gym at the seminary and then also we have access to the local hospital gym. They give us that for free. Good for you. I would like to put you in our private form because we're throwing a bunch of ideas and things with that. And the truth is we just need to know more.

Starting point is 01:30:39 A little bit more code. Yeah, we need to know more for sure of what's going on. Like, because, I mean, not that this is you, but you could show us your diet and it's like, you're only eating 1500 calories and we're telling you to cut something out. Like, and that would totally change our advice. Or maybe we look at and we assess it

Starting point is 01:30:53 and you're like, you're actually missing your protein and take massively or you're over consuming like, like so, or you have a tremendous amount of stress right now because it's fine, it's an old and you got something going on. Like so, there's a lot of other moving factors here. And I think just having you having access to us to kind of keep us up to date. I think the first step is to use the fat secret app. And let's just start kind of getting an idea, a better idea,

Starting point is 01:31:17 like then just like guesstimating or guessing what you're doing. Like let's get some tracking done in the fat secret app. And that will give us a better insight on what's going on nutritionally to know like where to what direction to push you in whether I would say hey let's just cut some calories or hey let's add some food into your diet and do more of a reverse because I think your metabolism needs it. Zach are you following you're following some of our programs I see you wrote in your anabolic do you have any other programs that you're following? Yes I'm doing performance right now

Starting point is 01:31:46 But yeah, no, I'm not doing any of the anything outside of out of your stuff Okay, I saw you you comment on pop wanting to power lift or maybe follow do you have that program? I do not know all right. I'll send that to you Zach. So great awesome. Yeah, so I've access to that. Just pray for us I appreciate that. We need a special item. It needs a lot of help. We all need a lot of help. I appreciate that.

Starting point is 01:32:09 Yeah. Getting the forum and keep us posted. I'd love to hear what's going on. Start tracking for me. Give me a little more insight. And then I think we can give a little better direction than what we already did. Awesome.

Starting point is 01:32:20 Appreciate it, guys. You got it, man. Thank you. All right, Zach. When we, when we, Mr. reminds me, when we went down to meet, Bishop Baron, I was so caught off guard by a jacked, like Jacked,

Starting point is 01:32:31 a lot of them looking pleased. You know what I mean? But of course, like what, why would I think what was wild to me was actually that there was multiple. I mean, what was the other guy that was super strong? Oh, I forgot.

Starting point is 01:32:42 I know you're talking about real good dude too. But they have a gym at this college. That's so phenomenal. Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. I didn't even, I didn't see, I didn't look further down. I know you're talking about that. Real good dude. But they have a gym at this college, that's so phenomenal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's great. I didn't even, I didn't see, I didn't look further down. I wish it was more like that, the evangelical world.

Starting point is 01:32:51 I don't see that a lot. A lot of, you know, snacks. Yeah, you know, a lot of potlucks. Yeah. You know, I actually really struggled with that, not to go off on a tangent with like my, my, you know, my religion journey or whatever, but that you had these people that were professing all these things that they're doing.

Starting point is 01:33:09 They're like, really over-consuming on the food. And it's just like, dude, your body's your temple. Like, if that's... And there's an addiction there. There's an addiction there also. If you're carrying yourself a 50, 100 pounds overweight, like, okay, so you're pretty good. You don't, you're faithful to your wife. You're good to your kids and you pray every day,

Starting point is 01:33:29 but then you go and you binge. You know what I'm saying? There's a disconnect there for sure. I really had a hard time reconciling that as a kid like growing up. Yeah. Our next caller is Kayla from Georgia. Kayla, how's it going?

Starting point is 01:33:43 Hey, how are you guys doing? Good, how are you doing? I'm shaking, this is so awesome. I just want you guys to know that I'm so grateful to be here today. I rehearsed this in my head so many times today. But you guys have changed my life. Before I found y'all, I was literally

Starting point is 01:34:02 I had the worst eating disorder. I was running miles and miles a day. I was teaching workout classes and strength training. And I was living on about 900 calories. And I was also some chain smoking. Just what you guys know that today, I actually quit smoking a couple weeks ago. Today, I'm at 4,000 calories maintenance. Wow. I've gained like a ton of strength.

Starting point is 01:34:31 I've actually been able to do pull ups and right now I'm at 20. Wow. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You can do 20 pull ups. You can do 20 pull ups. You can do 20 pull ups. It's changed my life. Wow.

Starting point is 01:34:44 That's incredible. Wow. It's killer. I don't run anymore. That's awesome. Good to hear. That's awesome. Thank you. Yeah, I'm trying not to cry because you guys are awesome. How can we help you, Caleb? Well, I live a very active lifestyle. I'm always on the trail. I do a lot of trail guiding, especially in the AT. So the trail's really thick and rough and it's a lot of cardio.

Starting point is 01:35:18 And honestly, it's really hard for me to keep up with not losing weight. I love hiking and I usually take a break in the winter. But when I start back up in the summer like with trail clearing and stuff like that, I just need some way to be able to not kill myself, but also continue strength training and hiking at the same time. And just how can I take care of my body for longevity? Great question. You know, it's funny you're asking this question right now. And I'm actually looking over at this package.

Starting point is 01:35:51 It's a friend of sales that we were considering investing in the company. And there's only some scenario. There's a handful of scenarios that I could see having tremendous value for somebody. You're an example of that. Is that for sale? Do you know if that's for sale?

Starting point is 01:36:05 I don't know if it is yet for sale, but essentially. It's so exciting. Yeah, so it's essentially, you know, it would be like something that you could take with you on these hikes that would be in a package easy to take and you can consume and eat while you train. Sorry, while you hike and move.

Starting point is 01:36:22 I'm sure you probably already have stuff like that that you bring? Um, I do. I, um, actually protein bars, but I honestly, I, I really prefer not to creatures of habit has been a lifesaver for me because I can keep it fresh on the trail. And um, that's been awesome, jerky. Um, but yeah, I tried to stay away from process stuff. Yeah, I mean, so how much activity are you actually doing?

Starting point is 01:36:51 So how many miles or what's the distance look like? Right now it's close to about 10 a day or 10 every time I do my trail guiding trips. Sometimes it'll be five, but it's the terrain that is so intense, like climbing basically, some areas you've gotta have like a rope and stuff to get through how thick it is. So it may be 10 miles, but it's like 10 miles of that.

Starting point is 01:37:20 There's so many things that's good on it. Now it makes sense how you're eating 4,000 calories. That's gonna be like, yeah, that's crazy. There's no way you're eating that much, but now it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and you're just eating it. And your strength is phenomenal. I mean, 20 pull ups is an incredible feat for anybody.

Starting point is 01:37:33 Because it isn't saying guys, I didn't think I could ever get there in my life. I would see you still be so weak, but. That's awesome. So I would say this, while you're in season like this, while you're doing so much of the siking, I would do a basic traditional strength training workout maybe once a week at most.

Starting point is 01:37:54 Or like a MAP 15. Yeah, MAP 15 would be good too, where you're doing a few exercises, a couple exercises a day, but even just once a week, on your day off, if you have a day off, I would go to the gym and I would do like four compound lifts, And the goal is really to try to maintain the strength that you have. Then when you go off season, that's when you really try to build and try to gain. If

Starting point is 01:38:15 you try to gain while doing that much hiking, you're going to bump into just just too much stress on the body. You're going to bump into just it's going to overwhelm your body's ability to recover down. And even if she could physically handle all that, she'd probably run into a digestive issue, just trying to eat 5,000 calories in order to sustain. That's probably where you're probably at a place right now eating that much, where it's just tough to get anymore, which is why I brought up that company. I know we haven't invested them yet, but it's a really interesting product because of how small these little cubes and they're extremely...

Starting point is 01:38:51 They're like gummies. Yeah, they're little gummies. It's really dense. Very, very dense. High protein, high calorie. That's amazing. Doug says it is for sale. It's called GetMePo.com. Okay.

Starting point is 01:39:01 No affiliation whatsoever. Yeah, I think one day a week of string training would be perfect. Like literally four compound lifts. That's it. Yeah, one of the most exciting. I'm actually going to be able to survive the next test season that it's that's incredible guys. Yeah, now when you go off season, Kayla, that's when you can follow one of our programs. And that's really yeah, and really focus on building a muscle and strength to carry you through the next season. But once a week will be plenty in the context of what you painted. Thank you so much. That's such a relief.

Starting point is 01:39:35 Yeah. You got it. You got it. Now, what programs are you? What programs are you? Because you said you mentioned. You mentioned anabolic. And performance.

Starting point is 01:39:44 Anabolic has been incredible for me, though, it's been the best performance was a lot. So yeah, I'm not 15 is going to be great because maps 15 is just a short inversion of maps. You know, I like for you to Kayla's maps power lift in your off season. Would you be interested in doing like a powerlifting workout in the off season? Yeah, you get some of strength potential. I think that's a great.

Starting point is 01:40:03 I'll be amazing. We'll send that to you. No, you guys don't have to do that. I'd rather support you guys and pay for it myself. You just did with everything you said. Yeah, we're gonna have this by your side. You're our walking billboards. That's what you're doing. Yeah. No, no, we'll send that to you. So much. We appreciate. We appreciate the support, yeah. Yeah, thank you so much. And appreciate your energy. Thank you so much. Thank you. Great. Oh, that's so cute. I mean, the truth is you change somebody that radically and that's what it's what I mean, remember having clients like this, right? I mean, it met you running like crazy. You've got, you've got a borderline eating disorder, you're eating 900 calories, like weak

Starting point is 01:40:46 probably. Your body's barely functioning. Yeah, and then 4,000 calories, 20 pull-ups. 20 pull-ups. I'm still tripping on that. You know, it's just for your average, like average female client I've had, like even just getting like two, was it ever a female client? I don't think I've ever had a female client do 20-up.

Starting point is 01:41:05 No, but she looks really petite. She's obviously very strong for her body weight. Yeah, strength of weight ratio. And the fact that she's doing this kind of climbing and hiking, she's getting lots of practice in that kind of movement. So, but she's obviously got some gifts, right? Which I hope she listens to this,

Starting point is 01:41:19 because she has some gifts towards strength, especially for her body weight. Yeah. She's why I wanted her to do powerlifting. That's actually a great bet she would crush and her body in her weight class, right? Yeah, yeah If you like mine pump head over to mine pump free.com and check out some of our free fitness guides We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal You can also find all of us on Instagram. Justin. Is that mine pump Justin? I'm at mine pump to stephen I'm Adam is that mine pump Adam? Thank you for listening to Mind Pump if your goal is to build and shape your body

Starting point is 01:41:49 dramatically improve your health and energy and Maximize your overall performance check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mind pump media dot com The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballic Maps for performance and maps aesthetic nine months phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

Starting point is 01:42:26 The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindP Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump!

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2241: Longer Vs. Shorter More Frequent Workouts, Transitioning From Powerlifting to Bodybuilding, the Value of Reverse Dieting & More

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