Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2245: Fix Your Sleep & Balance Your Hormones With Dr. Kirk Parsley

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

His background and how he got into what he is doing today. (2:01) The startling effects of Ambien on special operators. (19:17) Shifting the culture through his private practice. (26:33) “If you’re not sleeping well, you’re not repairing or preparing for tomorrow.” (33:22) The best treatments to decrease brain inflammation. (41:19) The demonization of psychedelics. (45:15) How did he get introduced to peptides? (1:01:28) We evolved to sleep. (1:03:09) Can you develop cortisol resistance? (1:07:50) What is causing the gradual decrease in men’s testosterone? (1:17:57) Peptides for better sleep. (1:20:29) His stress-free checklist for improved sleep. (1:25:17) The badest Seal he ever met and why. (1:37:12) The characteristics of a stellar Navy Seal. (1:40:04) Switching his resentment to a superpower. (1:43:38) His first experiences with psychedelics. (1:47:11) Not repeating the cycle of his parents with the raising of his children. (1:53:28) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Eight Sleep for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump Listeners! ** Save $200 on the Pod Cover + FREE SHIPPING ** January Promotion: New Year's Resolutions Special Offers!! New to Weightlifting Bundle | Body Transformation Bundle | New Year Extreme Intensity Bundle Body | Transformation Bundle 2.0  Sleep to Win: How Navy SEALs and Other High Performers Stay on Top – Book by Dr. Kirk Parsley "Operator syndrome": A unique constellation of medical and behavioral health-care needs of military special operation forces TRANSCEND your goals! Telehealth Provider • Physician Directed GET YOUR PERSONALIZED TREATMENT PLAN!  Hormone Replacement Therapy, Cognitive Function, Sleep & Fatigue, Athletic Performance and MORE. Their online process and medical experts make it simple to find out what’s right for you. On Ambien-Popping SEALs: 'Falling Asleep During Transport Was Quite Common' Blast-related traumatic brain injury - The Lancet Neurology How To Increase Sensitivity And Density Of The Androgen Receptors? DSIP (Delta Sleep-Inducing Peptide): Benefits, Dosage & Risks TB-500 Peptide: Benefits, Dosage & Side Effects - Jay Campbell Mind Pump #2125: Heal Like Wolverine: BPC 157 With Dr. William Seeds Take a Nap! Change Your Life. - Book by Dr. Sara Mednick Lone Survivor: The Eyewitness Account of Operation Redwing and the Lost Heroes of SEAL Team 10 – Book by Marcus Luttrell Ketamine and Treatment-Resistant Depression Harmonie Stone, LMFT Doc Parsley’s Stress-Free Sleep Worksheet Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest/People Mentioned Kirk Parsley (@kirkparsley) Instagram Robb Wolf (@dasrobbwolf) Instagram Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (@drgabriellelyon) Instagram Peter Attia (@peterattiamd) Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, pop, mind, pop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we had a lot of fun. We talked to it retired. Navy SEAL, Dr. Kirk Parsley. He's an expert on sleep expert

on longevity hormone therapy. He wrote a book. It's an incredible book called Sleep to Win, how Navy SEALs and other high performers stay on top. By the way, you can find them on Instagram at Kirk Parsley. So it's at K-I-R-K-P-A-R-S-L-E-Y. You'll find it on Instagram. By the way, this episode is brought to you by a sponsor. Eight sleep, they make a device that rests on your bed, uses AI technology to optimize your sleep. Now this is by far the most advanced sleep system

on the market, okay? So it controls the temperature of your bed, but it also monitors your sleep cycles, modifies them. So you have individualized temperature that adjusts throughout the night to optimize your sleep. There's nothing like this on the market. It's incredible. Go check them out. Get yourself a discount. Go to 8sleep.com. That's 8 EIGHTSleep.com, forward slash mind pump. Get yourself $200 off plus free shipping. We're also running a sale this month. It's January.

A lot of you are getting started on your fitness journey. So this is always one of the biggest sale months of the year for us. So here's what we did. We put together four workout program bundles and we discounted all of them by $300 to $350 off. Check this out. The first bundle is the new to weightlifting bundle. The second bundle is the body transformation bundle. The third one, the new year extreme intensity

bundle. And the fourth one is the body transformation bundle 2.0. If you're interested, go find those at mapsgenuary.com. All right, here we go with Dr. Kirk Parsley. Dr. Kirk Parsley. Great to meet you. We have a lot of common friends that speak so highly of you. Rob Wolf, Dr. very highly of you. Dr. Gabriel Lyon, so it's awesome to have you. I'll probably bomb. We're threatening him. I don't know how to free you. I don't realize you were as big as you were. You walked in. It's going on. It's a mean handshake. Tell our audience a little bit about your background and you know kind of take us up to speed to what you do now. Yeah, okay.

Well, I I was raised in sort of rural Texas. Hey did school, but I loved athletics and I loved fighting. Maybe not the best thing, but You know competed in a lot of sports and I was a pretty good athlete, a terrible student. So after four years of high school, I was a sophomore and I always knew I was going to go in the military anyway. So just like, when all my friends graduated, I just left the military. Again, as a really naive kid, I didn't read a lot, I didn't understand a lot.

And so I didn't even know what a seal was, but there's this documentary that came out in December, December, 87. It's like 48 hours. You remember that? Yeah. Like 60 minutes. But so they covered the first 48 hours of hell week and still training. And they kept saying, all this is the toughest training in the world, toughest training in the world. And I was like, well, I want to go to the toughest training in the world. I didn't even know what a I was like, well, I want to go to the toughest training in the world. I didn't even know what a seal was, but I wanted to go to that training, right?

Was this the first like big exposure to seal training? Because I know before that, if you saw anything in a movie, they would talk about green berets. Yeah. And that's it. And nobody knew what a seal was. In fact, when I came back and saw my friends after I'd been in, maybe for a while, and it's as a seal,

and they so confused. You work at SeaWorld or whatever you do. I don't like it. Make the noise, make the noise. Oh yeah. I'm from here. Yeah, so I watched that VHS, remember those days,

I hit the big rewind that thing, watched that thing about 20 times in a couple of weeks and I was like, I was only 17 at the time, but it said, told my mom wanted to do it. And I was always gonna go in the military, and I was like, that was only 17, it's nine minutes, I told my mom wanted to go do it. And I was always gonna go in the military, like I was gonna go.

And so went and joined it to be a seal. So naive, I didn't even know I was gonna get paid to be in the military, which just a bonus. Some like seal, some dive motivator and boot camp figured out that I didn't know that and like took me around to every office and like made me tell them the story. I was like, hey man they're gonna feed me, they're gonna give me clothes, they're gonna like I'm gonna be trained like what do I need? Right? I'm gonna live in the barracks like what do I need money for?

Like I never occurred to me, they're gonna pay me. And so anyway, I loved you because of that, I'm sure. Promotes a sky. Yeah. So then I ended up, you know, there were some academics and boot camp and then you go to what we call A school or apprenticeship school and then maybe because you have to have some sort of job because 90% of people fail still training to have to have a place to send you when you don't make it. So, that was about nine months, and that was all academic, and then it went to Buds, and there was a lot of academics in there, and I actually did really well academically, as like, top one or two guys and everything I did. So, I was like, oh, maybe I'm not dumb, you know, I don't know, but that's still a steel

doing a steel thing. What do you attribute that to? Like, the fact that you that you're so attached school well like I don't I don't know if it's technically dyslexia but I have a really hard time reading like it's and I always have to this day you'll take me three weeks to read a book that my wife could read in two days. I'm just a slow reader. And you know, I had a really bad home life. Like my mom had remarried. I had a really abusive stepfather. The cops were at the house all the time. We were always fleeing town to go and live with her sister or something. And it's kind of like a just a crappy home life, not a lot of sleep,

no ennourishing me, nobody making sure I did my homework, all that stuff. And so I started doing bad in school really early. And once you get behind, it's way harder to catch up. And then you build this narrative about yourself. I must suck at school. Yeah, and my stepfather's telling me I'm stupid. I'd teach her, telling me I'm stupid.

Like a third grade I had to teach her, say you're the dumbest student I've ever taught. Wow. Which is a whole classroom. Wow. Teachers were hard-core. I was like, I was like, well, I guess I'm dumb. So I'm like, whatever. What a whole classroom. Wow. It's like, all right, teachers were hardcore. I was like, I'm gonna be real hard. I was like, well, I guess I'm dumb.

So like, whatever, I better be tough. If you're gonna be dumb, you're very be tough, right? And so I just drove everything towards the physical. And anyway, you know, graduated through seal training went to the seal teams. You know, that was like the Clinton and Bush era. So we had the Gulf War, but that was super limited. And before that, it seemed like when we were under Clinton,

we were just the world's police force. We didn't really go to war. And the Gulf War was such a joke. It was just like, are we ever really going to get a war again? Am I just training over and over again, doing the same trip with the different guys? And I was like, I've been there done that. I'm going to gonna get a war again. Am I just training over and over again, doing the same trip with the different guys? And I'm like, I've been there done that, I'm gonna go do some else.

I didn't know what I was gonna do, but I got out with the encouragement of having done well academically in the military. I thought, well, maybe I can, I gotta go to junior college because I have a GED, I can't even get into college. And started doing that and did really well in college and you have to have 2000 volunteer hours to even apply for PT school.

And I thought it might be, it might be a physical therapist. So I started volunteering at San Diego Sports Medicine Center and then they hired me as a PTA to become became a PTA assistant eventually, and I was really doing a PT's job and just decided I wouldn't really really wanted to do. But I became friends with the doctors there, and they were like, hey, you should go to medical school. Yeah.

Pumped the brakes this time. I said, what a crazy turn of events. Come on, come on. The guy who thinks he's dumb, and all said, I mean, that's wild. Yeah, and I'm like, I failed every grade since they're great, and she really got pushed ahead. I got good football coaches that got me,

you know, got me through the years. And anyway, so I said, and so this doctor actually is a great story. The guy who owns a Dr. Lee Rice, he's still down in San Diego, and he hears the conversation with me and he's younger doctors and comes out and he says, Kirk, the question isn't, can you get into medical school? The question is, would you go if you could get in?

I was like, hell yeah, I'd go. And he's like, kind of got to do it, saying don't you? And I was like, yeah, say kind of like, like, changed me into it. And so I said, I'm going to go to medical school. And then when I was applying for medical schools, you know, it's an impossible thing to get into medical school. I mean, there's so many really smart talented kids

that don't get in. So they usually recommend you apply to about 20 schools and hoping that you get into two and you have a choice. So, you know, pre-internet, you had to go to the bookstore and look through the Kaplan books and figure out your GPA and MCAT and how competitive you were. So I did all that and I found out while I was doing that, the military had their own medical school.

And they would pay me to go to medical school instead of the other way around. And I was already married, I already had a kid, another kid on the way as like, it's kind of a no-brainer. Like I, so, I mean, you don't get paid a lot, but I made enough to support my family away. I went to medical school and my wife didn't have to work. And then, the way the military works, they'll train you to do anything, but it's about a two to one. So, you go to medical school for four years, you have to be a doctor for eight years.

It's like your payback. For them. Oh, I see how that works. Yeah. And so you know, that's what I did and I Figured I'd get back to the seal teams as their doctor and I did and that was this is general practitioner or well So the way the way the Navy works is you do your first year of residency And then they send you out and what they call fleet tour And that's how they keep general practitioners because otherwise everybody would just specialize your first year of residency, and then they send you out on what they call fleet tour. And that's how they keep journal practitioners.

Because otherwise, everybody would just specialize. And then why are you gonna send a neurosurgeon to take care of sick call, whatever. So that's kind of their game. And you're out for like two to three years, and then you come back to residency. And like my whole career was building children orthopedic surgeon and like that.

You know, obviously I did sports medicine the whole time I was in college. I had six years of experience in that. And then like I just loved, I mean, I've always been mechanical and like good with tools and carpentry and stuff like that. And orthopedic surgeons are carpenters. I mean, really, it's cutting and putting screws in and

and placing like whatever. So they're also the most fit doctors. Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, I'm a doctor. I'm designed fit. Well, you know, you think about it. Like orthopedic surgeons, people like me, who, they're only exposure to doctors or injuries. Yep.

The only time I've ever seen a doctor is when I was hurt. Yep. And it's like, do you get surgery done? That's kind of like, all the doctors ever told me. I, throughout my career, I've told this before. I've probably trained as a personal trainer, maybe 30. And it's like, do you get surgery done? That's kind of like, all the doctors have ever told me. Throughout my career, I've told this before, I've probably trained as a personal trainer, maybe 30 doctors.

And I could always pick out the orthopedic surgeon. And why they work out. Almost every time they work out. And they're usually athletes, and they're usually the exposure. So, so I did my first year residency, and then they send you out to the fleet, but if you want to go out and do something other than just sit on the ship, you can go to flight

school and then you go work with pilots, so you can go to dive school and you go work with divers and or seals. So I went to dive school which had a hyperbaric residency associated with that. And then went back to the seal teams as their doctor, thinking, here I am, I'm gonna do all this sports medicine and orthopedic stuff, right? Not orthopedic, so that wasn't necessarily enough, but, and I got there, you know,

the long funding cycles in the military, right? Big beer arcacy, so it takes about 10 years to get the money for anything that you decide you wanna do. And the money had just arrived to build the very first sports medicine facility that the West Coast had ever had. Like we people think we'd have all kinds of stuff, we had nothing. So we hired our first nutritionist and our first drinks and conditioning coach and our first athletic trainer and our first PT and our first PT assistant. And they put me in charge of this buildout because I had a ton of experience with rehab facilities already.

And I got, you know, I was in charge of the buildout and then I was one of the people hiring all these people and we got great people, you know, because the SEALs had this kind of celebrity status at that point. Like, this is not that long after Ben Laden. And so we were getting, you know, Olympic training center people and professional sports teams and, you know, D1 college, trainer, strength, conditioners, nutritionists, all that stuff.

And then of course, I was the dumbest guy in the room because we had like, ortho rounds coming through and pain rounds coming through and a chiropractor coming through and acupuncture coming through. and then we had all these world class People and doing what they're in when you're the dumbest guy in the room in the military. They make you a leader, right? So they're like So like all right now you're in charge of supervising all these people I'm like, all right. I don't know how I'm gonna supervise people that know all kinds of stuff

I don't know but okay, and so my office was in the rehab facility. And seals are a lot like, I'm sure you guys know how to like seals, but seals are a lot like professional athletes and that the worst thing you can do to them is put them on the bench. Like they would like cut their toe off and they easy exchange like they don't care.

And so they don't trust doctors. They don't trust the healthcare professionals because that's the most likely person to put them on the bench So they don't tell they lie to their doctors all Normal they go away and for the routine physical everything is great like and they'll dope themselves up on whatever They need to do to be able to be good for that one hour visit And then they'll go out in the town pay out of the pocket and get treatment so that they aren't getting well I'll put on the bench and they don't make a lot of money.

It's a big financial strain for them. But because I'd been a seal, and because I'd been a seal recently enough to wear, there were still a ton of seals at the teams on the West Coast that I trained with and deployed with. People trusted me. They told me, man, and closed the door and say, hey, let me tell you what's really going on with me.

And it's something that I dubbed the, They tell him and close the door and say, hey, let me tell you what's really going on with me. And something that I dubbed the, or the dubbed deemed whatever I called it, the seal syndrome. And then some researchers, I talked a bunch of researchers and they reviewed my dad and did some of their own research. And now they've renamed it the operator syndrome. And there's actually a book coming out on it. But it's basically, it's all performance issues, right?

So they complain their motivations down, the cognitive functions down, their memories down, their concentrations down, their body composition shifting, poorly, even though they're working with the nutritionists, doing exactly the string conditioning coach says, they're in pain all the time, you know, sex drive issues, sexual performance issues, emotional issues like, you know, really short chem person happy with their kids, poor sleep, but I didn't even pay attention to that, you know, and come from the community that selects for people who can

function with no sleep do well with No sleep. I mean get through a week and how week without no sleep for a week and No one in the community thought much about it and Made these guys just came in one after another because it's like yeah, the community's all the word mouth So it's like a cluster of symptoms you started to identify. Yeah, white common and I had no idea. I mean zero idea. I was like, I'm a Western trained physician. I know how to recognize and treat diseases. They don't have any diseases. They just

aren't performing as well. Right. What do I do with that? I don't know. So I literally every lab I knew how to interpret, I sent them to get. And so they're going over the hospital, pulling like 17 vials of drug of blood 98 lab markers. These tests were crossing about $3,500, which was one of the first things I got in trouble for, because I'd spent like, you know, I'd sent a hundred guys to $3,500 and couldn't say exactly what I was looking for. But it came back and like the operator syndrome, the objective component of that is like really low antibiotic markers, high catabolic markers, high inflammation, low insulin sensitivity.

Like they look, their labs look like a 50 year old, 30 pound overweight prediabetic. So you're looking at testosterone, free testosterone, you're looking at, I'm just assuming growth hormone, cortisol, insulin sensitivity, right? And then the inflammatory markers. Yeah, and DHA and pregnant alone Okay, section one binding goblin to all of that and then you saw some patterns and I saw I see these patterns and They had already known that the testosterone was a seem to be low in seals After they made the seal teams well and then The leadership just dismissed it. So those are guys that just abuse steroids

and now they have this problem. And I was like, that doesn't make any sense. Like they abuse steroids 10 years ago, like they're not gonna have any problems right now, right? And they were young, if they were doing it. But plus, these guys trusted me 100%. And they told me if they took steroids. And very, very few of them had. And if they did, they, but plus these guys trusted me 100% and they told me if they took sex.

Very, very few of them had and if they did, they took them for two months here and there like three or four times over their careers. They didn't shut down their HPTA access, so I was stupid. And anyway, I was thinking while I'd heard of like Shell Shock and combat fatigue, like other wars, I'm like, well, maybe it's something like that, which turns out nobody knows what the hell that is either. So like you go back and read through it, it's just like the cluster symptoms that nobody ever figured out what caused them. I'm like, all right, well, that doesn't help a whole lot. A adrenal fatigue was kind of like this new buzz word that was coming up. And I was like, well, that kind of sounds

like it. Like let me check out this adrenal fatigue. And the benefit I had is that I was, I was the doctor for the West Coast seal teams and I could call up anybody and say, hey, I saw your Ted talk, I read your book, I heard you go to your chair, on the doctor for the West Coast seal teams could I, so I'll talk to you. Can I come translate to?

Can I consult with you? Lots of doctors like bring me into their clinic for a week and like let me see patients with them and show me. That's cool. I just want to comment on just how great this is because a adrenal fatigue, highly, the term adrenal fatigue, highly criticized by a Western medicine for a long time, mainly

because the explanation, wellness practitioners had was that your adrenals are fatigued and they're like, that's not what's happening. So the whole thing doesn't exist. Now we call it, what we call it, HPTA access, dysfunction. So it's the symptoms are there though, and they're real and they're related to the hormones. Right. Yeah, it was just misnomed, misnamed. Yeah, so I went down that for a while,

I was doing, you know, Myers cocktails and adapted gins and, you know, doing cortisol tapers, quartet tapers on people to like, try to improve that. I was having some success, not a lot. That was also kind of the big boom days, 2008, 2009 of a vitamin D3 was like the magic thing that everybody was missing and that affects sleep.

And anyway, back up a bit, probably 40 or 50 guys into it. I don't know exactly, I'm embarrassed to say, it was a long time after guys had been coming to my office and talking to me that somebody said something about taking an ambience. And I just remember, like I can remember so clear, so one of those moments where you can just like picture yourself and I exactly where I was sitting and I was like, huh. And I make a note in the margin. And it seems like a lot of guys have said that. Then when he left, I went through my files and every single guy in my office had been on ambien. And I was like, I wonder. So now I went to Western medical

school. I have a single class on sleep. I didn't know any more about sleep than the seals knew about sleep or the my garden knew about sleep. I feel like the typical doctor would look at that and think that the association was that the Ambien was that the ambion was causing the issues, but you thought it was more about why they use the ambion? Well, or do you think you didn't know? I didn't know because I didn't really know what happened when you slept.

I just knew you, I was never taught about stages of sleep in hormone and reallocation and the glumphatic wasn't even known yet. There's all sorts of stuff. I didn't know anything about sleep. And so, I didn't know, I mean, I'd taken pharmacology in medical school. So I knew that Ambien was a GABA analog, but I was like, I don't really know how GABA affects leaves.

So that doesn't help a whole lot. But, yeah, the big problem, and one of the biggest problems in healthcare probably the biggest problem in healthcare is that the pharmaceutical industry owns the data. Right, so when they do the research, they give the FDA what they want to give them. They hold on to what they don't want to go. To present the best case for them to get their drug approved, but if they get sued, they have to lift up the kimono and show everything. So they had just been sued successfully multiple times because ambient dissociate your brain. So it's like dissociates the neocortex from the lizard brain underneath it. And now you're just running around on the lizard brain, which is the four

apps, right? The feeding, fighting, fleeing, and fornicating, I'll say. And so you do those four things and you aren't processing it cognitively. So you aren't getting any memory storage. And so you do those four things and you aren't processing it cognitively. So you aren't getting any memory storage. And so people are getting in their cars, going to casinos, gambling their life savings the way, mortgaging their houses and like all this stuff, picking up prostitutes. A big thing is eating, like people just go downstairs and like eat all their kids, cupcakes and ice cream, whatever, and then come down the next day and be like yelling at their kids. Literally, I'm knee-jeeing from those events.

No memory whatsoever. So what's happening is that not only are they not remembering, but because the executive functioning is disassociated, you basically act on impulse. There's no control. You're acting primal. That's so well. You're unlocking something for me that I had a client for the longest time that I couldn't get to the bottom of why he couldn't control that.

We got to the point where we talked about locking the refrigerator and he was all on ambient. I didn't even really want to. Yeah. Didn't even dawn on me back then. Yeah. Wow. That's so interesting. And so then once you really dig in the ambient literature, it sucks.

The drug doesn't even work. You fall asleep on average, 13 minutes faster, sleep 37 minutes longer, but it decreases rim sleep by 80% and deep sleep by 20%. And if you take it with alcohol, like most seals did, alcohol does the opposite, decreases deep sleep by 80% and rim sleep. So you do a sleep study on those guys, it's 99.9% stage two sleep. So they aren't getting any sleep. Wow.

Just enough to survive. Right. So this is just to survive. Right. And they're just surviving. And so, you know, the whole idea of being asleep is that the neocortex is slowed down. Like everything still works, right? All you're, I mean, you can still move your eyes to work, your ears to work. Like everything's still working. Just you aren't paying attention to it.

You're not processing it. And that's what Gabba does. It slows down the neocortex. Well, ambient binds a gap receptor and has 1,000 times that effect of GABA. So you just completely shut the Neocortex off. Then that just leaves you with the liver brain, which is what, you know, not to get political, but what the homoscas were. There are a lot on drugs and they were over there.

Just acting crazy. Doing what, that's what animals do, right? Like, that's animal behavior and that's what the lizard brain was. And so, anyway, they've been sued. And so I started learning a lot about sleep because I could talk to all these smart docs about it and train with people.

And then after I learned enough about that and what A&B and did, I thought, well, Jesus, this could literally explain every single symptom that they've complained of. Now, I didn't, I thought, Jesus, this could literally explain every single symptom that they've complained of. Now I didn't think it would, like that, you know, that'd be naive to think it would, but it could. So I didn't know how big that would affect would be, but I'm like, first thing we're

going to do is get everybody off of ambient, see what happens from there. Expecting a marginal increase, and it was a profound increase, right? So I came up with, like with the help of the seals, like, I went through and did literature research on like, and I don't know about herbs and, you know, there's other things I think that help. But as far as just like nutritional, truly nutritional supplements,

things that are usually in your body, that are already in there, they're in your food, I just made a list of all the things that are associated with sleep. So when you said increase, what going off ambient, do you mean increase in the antibiotic hormones, change in profile? Yeah, I guess that's okay. So I came up with a concoction of like seven different supplements. This is a pre-Amazon day, so I was just giving guys handouts and they were going around to the health food stores and buying all these supplements. This is a pre-Amazon day, so I was just giving guys handouts and they were going around to the health food stores and buying all these supplements. Magnesium vitamin D stuff. Yeah, yep. And so the whole the whole melatonin production pathway from from chryptothan to melatonin

and the vitamin D3 magnesium and and GABA. And then I had them taken this and then they fed back to me. They're great patients. They're super motivated. They'll journal the log. They'll come in and tell you every day that, you know, they're not trying to make you feel good about yourself. I'll tell you exactly what's going on. So we ramped up really quick. Came out with a concoction that worked and got all these dudes off of ambient

because I couldn't just say quit taking ambient. Yeah, because I had to come up with, like they weren't sleeping that, right? So I had to come up with something. And so they started doing that within You know it varied but let's say four to eight weeks Total testosterone would double or triple for a testosterone would triple HscRP would go from like 3.8 down to unmeasurable

Hymacistine would come crashing down fasting or AM cortisol would be way down insulin sensitivity way up. They'd go from a fasting insulin of 12 down to a 5 or 6 or something. They weren't doing anything differently. I had 45-year-old guys PRing and their CrossFit and their Jiu-Jitsu, their running and their triathlon, whatever they did. And it was all happening, off of their own accord, like their body was doing everything. Now, it wasn't just that I was giving them DHA, it's a supplement for production pathway and I was giving them zinc citrate and occasionally I'd give them a remadex to block the estrogen conversion.

And you just had this amazing result. And it was, you know, it was probably the 80% solution for 80% of the guys. But they loved it. I mean, most guys will take 80%. That's awesome. The piece that I didn't figure out until maybe the last year I was there was the TBI component, which is definitely the other 20%

and some people that's like 40% of it, because TBI affects your hormone production as well that traumatic brain injuries Oh, so we used to think that you had to like when I went to medical school in order to have a traumatic brain injury You have to have been hit in the head and you have to go unconscious and if you don't meet those two criteria You don't have a TBI right well research was done to criteria, you don't have a TBI. Well, research was done through Harvard and Oxford that showed what's called DTIs, these imaging studies, they can see a single neuronal tract breaking, and they could consistently get a neuronal tract to break at 1.09 Gs, which they were getting from

the acceleration changes on the roller coaster. So then you can imagine how much more people get. Now that would be an insignificant thing. But, and then we started studying these over pressurization from blast injuries, which just kind of rock your world. But you're in the room with it, and this happens all the time, you throw a flashbrain in the room, you come in and you start shooting in a concrete room.

I mean, you're getting blast injuries. Like that's going through your skull and everything and your, your brain is vibrating. And the blood vessels vibrated at a different rate than the dura. And that vibrates at a different rate than the gray matter. And that vibrates at a different weight and the white matter. And it shears across all these places. And it causes brain damage.

And brain damage leads to brain inflammation and brain inflammation and appears with hormone production. And then it appears asleep and cognition and all sorts of other stuff. So I didn't figure that part out till the end. But as we were talking about earlier, we had these pre and post-retreats where we would take the whole team and kind of prepare them and their families for their deployment and then help them reintegrate when they came back and we'd bring in speakers. And they started letting me speak to the seals about and I just used the buzz

terms they cared about right like growth hormone testosterone like IGF1 like you're going to get muscle you're better erection like you know all the stuff that they would care about and I started shifting the culture the leadership bought on and we started changing like the sleeping environment at training facilities and all that other stuff and put scheduling naps in the middle of long training days and things like that. And we had some tremendous success. But then when I got out of the Navy, I kind of left a vacuum right there,

because they were just going to replace me. And I didn't mention that I was thought by the bureaucracy the entire time. I mean, I was like my medical credentials were suspended almost half the time I was there because I was always under investigation for practicing outside of my scope. Like giving myers cocktails is beyond my scope. It's a doctor. I'm not allowed to give vitamin IVs, I guess. So what's in a myers cocktail again? A magnesium, a lot of B vitamins, vitamin C, like it.

Don't they call this like the hangover IVs? That was on the one. Yeah, I mean, it's really good for adrenal support and kind of calming things down because it has a ton of magnesium in it. And anyway, so I left this vacuum when I left and all the seals kept calling me. And they're like, hey, we just got some Joe below here who wants to give me Motrin and talking about my cold

and my knee or whatever, we need some, and I couldn't really do anything officially. So I just started seeing all these guys for free because they can't afford anything. And I had a brick and mortar practice with that Dr. Lee Bryce who guilted me into trying. He had a concierge practice that I joined. It was supposed to be his successor.

And then I just got herringed so often and they're like, can you just make a product out of all these supplements? Because we're having to go to five different stores and buy all this crap. And this is in pills and that's in liquids and that's in powders. And we had to travel like it's ridiculous and so I was like all right and then I just get friends with Peter at the time we were talking about doing a consulting business together and I said hey I'm I'll catch up with you in a year I'm gonna step out of brick and mortar I'm gonna make this supplement so that I can sell it to the seal teams and just make it like a super durable thing I'll get that out for them and then I'll just live off of my consulting. And when I took consulting clients,

I said, hey, I charge a lot of money, but primarily I charge a lot of money because you're paying for seals because I'm spending half my time with paid clients and half my time with people who can't afford me. And so that was my career and because guys like Rob Wolf had brought me on and his podcast and I'd gone to lots of symposiums and invited by all these kind of guys that we shared. I shared the stage with those pre-imposed retreats. You know, I had like a flood,

I already had like a flood of people who wanted to work with me. And I forget what I was calling it back then. It bounced around holistic medicine, integrative functional medicine, all this. I call it performance medicine now. I don't deal with the disease at all. Like, all my clients now have a concierge doctor

who handles all their medical stuff. I help you perform better. And whether that's cognitive, emotional, physical, strength, endurance, I don't care. Whatever you want to be better at, that's what I do. Now, you're talking about largely high performance, like, you know, 1% right, seals. And so someone listening right now, average person might be like, well, I don't know if that applies to me. Like, how big of an issue is poor sleep with the average person, right?

And what are those impacts having on the average person? Well, so I think probably kind of the best sales pitch I have is that, you know, seals are arguably the most performant group of men in the world, or one of the top couple for sure. And so if chaotic and poor sleep can break these guys, it can break you. And if I can help them perform at their level, I can help you perform at your level.

And my private clients aren't elite athletes. I mean, some of them are rarely the mainly 45 to 55 year old men who traded their health for wealth for 20 or 30 years. Now they have a ton of money and they're fat out of shape worried about, you know, the brother had a heart attack or they're worried about playing with their kids, you know, their kids or their grandkids or whatever. And now they just like, money's not an issue. Like, I want to be a D1 athlete again in a year. Yeah, that's some expectations, you know, like, pump the brakes there. But, you know, that's my private clientele.

And the most of the seals I see are retiring seals, are guys getting out. And TBI is a much bigger component of it than I was treating back then. I do a lot with that now. I want to ask you about that specifically, especially with athletes. Yeah. And it may be especially high contact athletes and football and all that. What are you seeing in terms of the severity of that? What's the treatment look like with that? All of those things that I described that I called the seal syndrome, now called the operator

syndrome, all of that can easily be attributed to TBI as well. So, you know, a lot of people, I mean, I've heard you guys talk, you're pretty smart, I'm sure you all know this, but a lot of people don't know that, like 100% of your hormone regulation happens while you're asleep. And then the first two sleep cycles primarily,

because it's happening during deep sleep, your neuroregulation of appetite, balance of all your anabolic, catabolic, your immune system, you're like, right, like the only time you're getting deep sleep. Your neuroregulation of appetite, balance of all your antibiotics, catabolic, your immune system, you're like, right? Like the only time you're getting better at anything is while you're sleeping, that's when you're improving. So if you aren't sleeping well, you aren't, you aren't,

like the whole reason I sleep tonight is to repair from today and to prepare for tomorrow, right? So I'm exhausting resources and I'm damaging myself. I have to fix the damage and replenish the resources. And if I could do that 100%, I'd wake up the same every day and I'd never age. I'd be exactly the same every day, right? And when you're young, it's even better than that. Like you wake up better. And then you like 25 to 35, you may be plateaued and then after that, you kind of wake up a little bit worse every day. Like it might be a thousandth of a percent worse, but right?

But sleep interferes with all those hormone poor sleep leads to all those hormone dysregulations, but brain inflammation looks almost identical. And brain inflammation leads to poor sleep and poor sleep leads to brain. Yeah, there's lots of self licking ice cream cones in these cycles, man. You know, like a simple example that I talk about all the time. You don't really have testosterone receptors in your brain, right? You have a very few hypothalamus, almost, has almost none. And that's what's measuring how much testosterone you have.

So how do you, your brain knows how much testosterone you have, how much estrogen you have? And so if you're actually, this is how selective estrogen receptor modulate is raised testosterone. Right. They block the estrogen receptor. You're probably thinking you don't have enough testosterone. Right. And so the fate, the place where we men have the aromatase enzyme to convert testosterone to estrogen is in our subcutaneous fat, not non-domental fat, not brown fat. But like in the fat we don't like to see in the mirror, that's the fat on us that has that aromatics enzyme. And so the fatter we get, the more estrogen we convert, the more estrogen that goes through our brain,

the more our brain says, oh, we don't need testosterone, lute nidaleumia goes down, then you produce less testosterone. Get fatter. Now you get fatter. Like in that, like in the, I've never heard someone explain it that way. That's really cool. There's half a dozen systems like that. You know, like another one, the number one reason

that people can't sleep, we call psychophysiologic insomnia. That means you can't sleep because you're worried about not being able to sleep. So it's just a stress issue. When you, like I said, I go to sleep tonight to repair and prepare for tomorrow. I'm going to write, I'm going to flush that you've heard of the glenthatic system. I'm sure you're going to flush all the toxins out of my brain. I'm going to start rebuilding all the neurotransmitter, neuropeptide densities. I'm going to start rebuilding ATP in my brain, getting rid of a dentistry and all that stuff I'm going to do, neuroregulation of appetite, my testosterone growth hormone, thyroid hormone, like even insulin glucose on it or being rebalanced left and sensitivity, growing sensitivity, all that's happening

during deep sleep. Rim sleep, I'm rehearsing every single thing that I've heard today. Whether you remember it or not, everything I heard I'm going to go over three or four times and I'm going to determine if I think it's important or not. If I don't think it's important, I'm going to prune it, and I'm not going to remember it anymore. If I think it's important, I'm going to start connecting it to other information. Once I connect it to enough pieces of information, I can come at it from multiple ways, I formed durable pathways, now I actually know that, and now I can work with it, and I can come up with creative ideas and like how that might impact something else that I know about. All that's going on during

sleep. If you have anything wrong with your brain, if you have any, if you just don't sleep well, and one of the major reasons is stress hormones, stress hormone, the lowest stress hormone you'll have it, like we all know the highest stress hormone, right? Fight or flight. That's the highest maximum stress hormone you'll have it, like we all know the highest stress hormone, right? Phytorphlight, that's the highest maximum stress hormone you can produce. The absolute minimum is delta sleep, like slow way sleep cycle, the lowest stress hormone you have in any 24 hour period.

Phytorphlight is 100% catabolic. You're superhuman in phytorphlight. You can't run around like that because you will die. You will eat yourself in 24 hours. You're't run around like that because you will die. You will eat yourself. And 24 hours. You're just running off the pure night just. Deep sleep is the most anabolic time, almost 100% anabolic. You're fighting off infections with your immune system.

You're repairing, like we all know, you lift weights, you get weaker, right? If you go to the gym, you do anything worth doing, you're weaker when you leave. When do you get stronger? You're stronger when you sleep. When you sleep, your brain uses today as the template to say, okay, this is what we need to be better at tomorrow.

Your brain inner body of the template for tomorrow, to say, if I try to do, try to lift more bench press than I could do today, my brain's gonna, brain and body are gonna try to make me more able to do that tomorrow. I'm gonna try to repair as much as I can and make those muscles, those muscle fibers stronger, thicker. Endurance, I'm gonna increase mitochondrial density or, you know, mitochondrial efficiency or something like that. That's all happening while I'm asleep.

If you put 20% 30% more stress hormones in there, you do 20 to 30% less of that antibiotic behavior. in there. You do 20 to 30% less of that antibiotic behavior. If you put somebody in a cave with artificial lighting, they had no cues whatsoever to know what time of day it was. And they're just turning on the lights when they think they should be awake. Your circadian rhythm is, and men are slightly longer than 24 hours and women are slightly shorter. So you'll be, in a week, you'll be seven or eight hours off, right? But if you're well sleep adapted, you'll still sleep about eight hours. You'll fall asleep and you'll wake up. No lights are waking up, no sounds waking you up.

They've done these things many times, by the way. Yeah. There's hundreds of these things done. And what wakes you up? Course, I'll wake you up. So the contractor born into, it takes eight hours to recover from being awake for 16 hours. Put all the butter in your coffee you want, where blue blocking lenses, use red lights, whatever it takes,

still takes eight hours. Like there's nothing you can do about that. Can't get away from that. If you choose to sleep six hours, you've shortened it 25%. 25% means you're aging 25% faster, but it also means you're 25% less prepared. Tomorrow still comes at exactly the same time. Exactly the same time. You still have to do everything the next day that you were going to do if you slept

eight hours. So how do you compensate? Stimulus increased stress hormones, right? Increased stress hormones get closer to fight or flight. Now you have higher stress hormones throughout the day. I already said stress hormones are catabolic, so you're beating yourself down. A lot of people who go work out really hard in the morning, like after they didn't get enough sleep and increase stress hormones more and hurt themselves any more. Now they're trying to go to sleep and the stress hormones are too high to go to sleep. But if they're exhausted enough, they have enough adenosine, they can pass out, they go through one

or two sleep cycles, all the adenosine flushed out, neurotransmitters, every planet's cortisol still there, they wake up. Can't go back to sleep. So brain injury, brain inflammation lead to that same, that same type of pathway because your brain just simply isn't functioning right with inflammation. The brain is inside of the skull, it compresses everything, puts pressures on thing, and inflammatory products in the brain are kind of like oxidative and damaging. Are there specific things people with these types of TBI, anything they can do to help reduce brain information. Yeah, yeah. So there's tons of things. I do this all the time. This is one of the primary things I do with the seals now. So I told you how little it takes to get a brain injury. Yeah. 1.09 G's to create it, right? M4 fire inside of a concrete room is 35 G's. Right. And you have four guys doing it 10,000 times in a day.

You know, our fast-boached transit at 60 G's, peak over 100 G's, our anti-tank anti-armor, cargo stuff, 200 G's when you fire it. The spotter gets 300 G's. If you're in the back of a hum video with a 50 Calgo and 65 G's for every round, like every seal has And like every military guy just like the really the biggest difference in special forces is like to hire Your climate that ladder the more money you have and the more bullets you get to shoot and the more equipment You have the more training trips you have so there's more there's just way more brain injuries the higher you get up that echelon

And so we work on things to decrease brain inflammation. So the first thing you have to do is get the hormones right. And a lot of the times, if people are young, I try to improve their hormones without giving them hormones. But if you have enough brain damage, that might not be possible. So I might have to actually give you hormones with the conservative pathway where I'm supporting your production, encouraging your own production. And then two, three months later, we'll try to take the testosterone off. But if you're... So, so they go with testosterone.

You say conservative pathway encouraged, so you do it in clomaphine. Yeah, I do. In clomaphine. In clomaphine. Seven keto DHA, because that can't aromatize. Got it. Pregninalone. And aromatase inhibitor.

If they're second one, binding the labyrinths really high, I'll use a synthetic testosterone for like six weeks to drive that down really low. Secretedog for IGF1, for growth hormone, if that's one of their issues. What is a... Is there a way to screen for this like FMRI or like how do you know?

You can't really study. I mean, you can study with EEGs. They're actually one of the best treatments for, and this is the reason it's the so popular. It's obviously a touchy subject, but psychedelics are probably like the best one-time treatment. If you're just going to, if I just had one day to do something with you, that's what I would do. They're hugely anti-inflammatory to the brain. They also regenerate a ton of neurotransmitters and clean a lot of receptors, increase receptor density. We can get amazing results.

See, I don't really believe that PTI, like anything with syndrome on it isn't real. It just means there's a bunch of symptoms that we're seeing together all the time, like my seal syndrome. The fall along with each other. Like these are the typical things, but we can't explain them. That's why we're calling it a syndrome. So PTSD, I don't believe it. And I think PTSD is a, it's a conglomeration of symptoms that are caused by damaged brains.

And so the more brain damage you have, the more PTSD symptom you And so the more brain damage you have, the more PTSD symptom do you have. The more brain damage you have, the harder it is to sleep. The harder it is to sleep, the more brain damage you'll have, the more brain inflammation. We documented in the Navy, almost a one-to-one correlation between total testosterone and sleep. So it ended up being a 0.87 correlation,

which nobody had published this before, shocking shocking to me because it seems pretty obvious. But if somebody is low testosterone, I guarantee you they don't sleep well. If somebody doesn't sleep well, I guarantee you they don't have testosterone levels. If you sleep poorly and have low testosterone and I increase your testosterone, you'll sleep better. If you just sleep better on your own, your testosterone will go up on its own. So like, you know, all of these things are, you know, completely intertwined. And every, every hormone affects every other hormone. You mentioned the psychedelics for the anti-inflammatory effect, because the studies on that

now is quite fascinating, but are these the natural, like, triptomine-based molecule, like psilocybin? Siltocybin, yeah. Okay. So they've done functional MRIs with a group. So ketamine isn't really DMT, but it's very similar. The molecule is very similar. Five MDMA is a completely different compound,

but it has some similar effects. And then you have a DMT, your five MEO DMT, psilocybin, ayahuasca, eye-began, and then things like the mescalins and other cactus plants and things like that. They all work off of DMT, dimethyl tripramine is the path, they all have their plants, so there's thousands of effects, but one of their primary components is that,

when I talked about earlier about using stress hormones to compensate for not getting enough sleep, now I can't sleep well because my stress hormones are too high. So when I don't get enough sleep my next day my stress hormones are even higher. So now my stress hormones are high because I can't sleep well and I can't sleep well because my stress hormones are high and I get that same self-refergating downward spiral. What did you say? Like a dollar for those friends. Yeah, yeah. So stress hormones are activating the amygdala

and the amygdala is activating stress hormones, right? So the amygdala is like that little walnut on each side of your brain that's giving you your stress response or vigilance so Right now sitting here are our amygdala tones should be really calm And there's nothing threatening to us. There's not a lot of stuff moving around like we should be really calm We aren't like almost certainly we aren't just because of the world we've developed into but people who have brain damage and people who have high stress hormones are even worse, what functional MRIs have shown with all those psychedelics is

that they decrease a migratory by about 90%. And depending on which drug you're talking about, or plant medicine you're talking about, and theogen, depending on which one you're talking about, the durability is different. So I began that decrease in tone can last nine months, maybe up to a year. I wash is about six, three to six months, psilocybin's like one to three months, ketamine's like a couple of weeks to a month, MDMA's like just when you're taking it. And I don't know about the cactus derivatives. I don't think that was in the study. So if you think about it, what you guys do, what I do,

and what all of these guys need is lifestyle modification, right? They need to change their life, they need to change how they think about things. The reason I'm a grumpy old man isn't because I'm 53 years old, it's because my brain is set in its pathways. I've gone through 50 years of REM sleep

and have formed all these durable pathways and I have this idea that says, this is the way you do things. That's the way, this is the way you interpret that, that's the way you interpret this. This is what this means, that's what that means. It's a lifetime of experience.

My neuroplasticity is very low. It's really hard for me to change anything about myself. My ego gets stronger as I get older, because I'm more sure of who I am. We call it confidence. So we get older. It's like, I know who I am and I know what I do and I don't do this and I do it.

And so if you want to change how your brain is functioning, one, you have to have the stress out of the way, because anytime you're stressed, your ego is protecting you, right? So these things decrease the stress hormones, decrease catabolic activity, and one of the biggest effects of stress hormones is it impairs the prefrontal cortex. The prefrontal cortex is, you know, the executive functioning. It's our simulator. It allows us to go, hey, there's five different pathways. Let me imagine what would happen to each one of those five if I chose this.

That's why the anxiety disorders, your body kicks into anxiety before you can even process and how to stop it. And then you fail yourself, right? If you're chronically sleep deprived or if you have a brain trauma, brain inflammation, your prefrontal cortex doesn't work that well. This is what we call ADHD. ADHD and sleep deprivation are completely anextricable. Like you look at the symptoms of those two in the dozen four, you cannot tell

those apart. So it's the prefrontal cortex isn't functioning well. And that's because lack of sleep is a stressor because the only time any animal on this planet will sleep to private self as if it's starving or being preyed upon, like being stalked. So it's very reasonable to think that our brains have all the same way. And so when we aren't sleeping well, that's another reason our stress hormones are higher. And our prefrontal cortex is then going to be focused on stress. It's looking for things that are threatening to us and our functioning isn't nearly as well.

And so if I can decrease the migratone, now I have executive functioning to analyze my behavior and figure out if I want to do something different. But then the psychedelics have greatly increased my neuroplasticity because they increase BDNF and Glealcelled Neurotropic Vactors. They increase HIF, they VEGF,

so you're increasing your blood vessel flow, like blood supply to your brain and you're actually repairing your brain and your brain is more plastic, like a little kid. The way that I've heard it explain to me was like, like tracks in the snow, and if you keep going down the same pathway, then you've got like this deep groove in the snow.

Yeah. And it's there and to get to develop a new track is gonna be very difficult. A great metaphor I've heard. I used to use like a rabbit trail to a super highway, but a great one I've heard I think is really approposed. So you picture like an old, you know, 17th, 18th century wagon. Those tall wheels with the steel on them. they go down dirt roads and they form these

Ruts right and then if you've seen one of those you know, it's like the like the hump in the middle is like only inches Under the middle of the wagon because the wheels are so deep in the rut It's like now try to get out of that rut now try to go left or right You're not getting out of that right so that like that right? So that's a good way to visualize it. But yeah, we, as we get older, our hormones tend to decrease to diminish anyway. We don't, like most people aren't as active. They aren't as healthy.

They aren't treating themselves as well, metabolically. They aren't sleeping as well. They have a lot more stress, there's a lot more responsibilities in the world, and it's just harder to change your brain. Psychedelics, offer you an opportunity to that. There's peptides that do very similar things,

just psychedelics. Hyperbarics is an amazing tool. There's a lot of the same things. You can increase almost everything I just said there. One of those peptides, there What are those peptides just to find out? There's lots of peptides that help cerebral isines, probably the most powerful one. Cerebral isine is a synthetic hormone,

or it's a synthetic peptide, but it has a bunch of growth factors and neurotropic factors from a pig's brain. That has about 90% of the same effect as psychedelics, but it's more durable. You do one 10-day treatment of that and that can last for up to two years. It can improve your cognition, decrease anxiety, all that stuff. Epithelon can do the same thing, C-max, salank, salank and C-max are nasal sprays or injections. Yeah, there's a lot of... There's a lot of... I read that for some of those.

I read that BPC-155 can reduce inflammation or all. BPC-157 decreases inflammation and it can have... that can have some neurotropic effects because of inflammation affecting the brain. You know what's interesting too, about what you're saying about the psychedelics is that, because people, we have a lot of studies now that are, I mean, what you're talking about is all backed by data. Yeah.

The reason why we did those studies very sad, it's because, first off, there's no profits, very, you can't profit off solidcycling, because it's not patentated or DMT or whatever, right? Oh, they'll figure out a way to do that. Well, they'll try, right? But'll figure out a way to do that. They'll try, right? But this is one of the reasons why there wasn't a lot of studies on it.

Ketamine, you know, very inexpensive, most compound pharmacies can make it. But it was returning soldiers. Suicide is now the top cause of death. And so military is really the reason they pushed this. We got to fund and figure out how the hell to deal with some of the stuff. That's why they started studying these. Yeah, so in 2010, I got approached by Martin Palanco and his partner who owned Crossroads down in Mexico, which was an I began facility.

That's right. And it was called Crossroads because that's where Eric Clapton went after his son suicide. And he donated his guitar collection to fund them, to keep them going, because he had such a profound result. But the primary research at that time around, I began was opiate addiction. Yeah, and so they came to me, assuming my job with seals, I'd have a lot of people in opiates. my job with with seals, I'd have a lot of people in opiates. We don't do opiates in the seals team. So like the other problem, like the other reason that I was so limited what I could do with the seal teams is like, I can't put a seal on a prescription medication

because if I do, it just qualifies him. Because he can't be out in the field and not get his medication and be impaired. So if you need a medication, you can't be in the field. So, I always have to do all of this without that. But, they wanted to talk to me about OP addition. I'm like, I don't really have that problem. We had a nice lunch anyway. I talked to them about their research and they said, well, you know, there's actually some research coming out

that it helps with PTSD as well. And I said, okay, well, I might be interested in that. And so after my meeting, I went home, I looked at the sides, I looked at some of the research, the same two guys I was having lunch with were supervising a session, two different sessions where two guys had died under eye-be-game. And I was like, well, that's not super encouraging. I'm not sure. I'm too interested in that.

So I just kind of put it off in the back burner. And I don't want to take up your whole day. But there was a seal before who I treated who'd been med-borted out. It was on 13 different psychotropic medications. Med-borted out through all this medication and the trash. Got on a plane, flew the Peru, lived in the jungle with a shaman for 30 days Nude for reasons that don't understand living off the land doing coon doing yoga every day Iowaska every third day and he came back completely transformed person

And so that made me that's the only reason I even considered the psychedelics But anyway, that was on the back burner a few months later. My very best friend in the world who I went through seal training with, we were roommates all through buds. His wife calls me and said, he's suicidal, he's kicked me and the kids out of the house, he's writing a suicide note. And I'm like, all right, so I go over to his house. One of the scariest nights of my life, he's threatening to shoot me and all this other stuff. And so anyway, we hashed this out over hours. And I'm like, and like, he's not emotional. He's not drunk. He's on drugs. He's like, he's just got, he's got the same written out very matter.

Factly, this is why it's better for my wife. This is why it's better for my kids. It's why it's better for my these people. And I'm just gonna do it like I'm ready. I'm ready to go. I was like, yeah, but none of us want you to die, dude. That should be in there. Like underneath every one of those is just like, we don't want you dead. So I said, hey, if you're gonna kill yourself anyway,

this thing's dangerous, you might die, but at least it wouldn't be a suicide. So what do you say we go? You give this thing a try. And to Martins credit, I rented out the entire clinic, he six bed facility, we just went by ourselves, we brought the guy who had done the ayahuasca with us because he was the only person I knew,

who knew anything about it. And he had this amazingly transformative experience. I mean, 18 year old kid that I met met came out the next morning and I was like, wow, then he had some friends who were really suffering and we got his friends treated and we got five or six guys treated probably in the next nine months. And one of those guys that we treated was Marcus Capone, who then started Vets, which is the veteran seeking solution to whatever. And they had that big organization now partnered with Stanford, studying IBEGain.

And it's just been exploding from there. And then there was, I can't remember his last name, Nicholas, which is Greenbrae. He had, I want to say, he had a big experience with Iawaskin. He kind of started a nonprofit around that as well. It's primarily been the special forces guys that have decided, like we're not ready to go. Like, don't get me wrong, we have plenty of suicides, but there's guys who have enough wherewithal and resources, and they, you know, they go do it. I see it all the time. Oh, I like

guy feels podcast. This the most amazing story I've ever heard my life. It would take me an hour to tell it well, but basically, this young kid, Navy pilot ejected at the speed of sound, pulling four and a half Gs, two and a half seconds before impact to the ocean, and survived it. I mean, died a couple of times, but was revived, survived it. They said, it probably gonna be a vegetable for us in life, if it's not, he's definitely not walking.

Two years later, he was flying jets again. Well, but once he started flying jets again, all of his head injury stuff manifested and then he started having psychotic issues and he had med-boarded out and had one point, he was awarded the state and a psychiatric facility against his will couldn't get out of it. Anyway, long, long, convoluted story, but the most fascinating story I've ever heard in my life. And one of his friends said, Hey, man, you should try psilocybin thing. I did it. He went and did psilocybin.

He's never been on another psychiatric medication the rest of his life. He now does ultra-marathon mountain bike races, whatever that is. You see the dude without a shirt on. The first study I read on ps Sibon was something like that, was with cluster headaches, people, severe cluster headaches, will do one dose and then not get one for like, not get a cluster headache for like a year. And this is like an almost untreatable condition.

People rip their hair out because it's so bad. I mean, does it piss you off because you're so close to some of these people that suffer from stuff like this and then it's not widely accepted. It's still demonized. It's still demonized. It's still, unless you're in the know, so many people have no idea. Yeah, I mean, it's super frustrating.

You know, where I really get, like my passion, like I said, I have private clients that, you know, that I like and I love some of them. They become great friends. But like my passion would be, if I could treat every seal that's alive, that's what I would do. And the fact that I can help that community, I can't help everybody,

but if I can be impactful in that community, that community will expand and help a lot of other communities. And there's 10,000, there's 10,000 of us alive who've ever graduated from a seal training. Like obviously some of those are dead, but 10,000, there's 10,000 of us alive. We've ever graduated still, training it, like obviously some of those are dead, but 10,000 people total, whatever's left of that, if you could optimize that group of people and keep them connected, I mean, it's just,

like that's what gives me hope and ambition, and motivation every day. And I try to educate other doctors, but doctors are kind of resilient or resistance that's what I went in, kind of resistant to being told something by another doctor, of course. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm not trying to insult your intelligence. I, nothing, nothing I do, I learned in medical school. Zero. I mean, it's a language school, it's all it is. Like, I, there's not a single thing that I do from day to day that has anything to do with my medical.

So, Chris, how far back, um, did you get introduced to peptides first? And what tell me about that journey? Cause this is something that we've been recently talking more about on our show. year two. I mean, as far as like really understanding the breadth of them, like I think I've been, I was using Penta Sand for probably 15 years, but that's been around for a long time. I heard about the first secrety dogs. I didn't really use them by study dome, and I knew some guys who used them, some colleagues, I talked to them about it. They weren't super impressive. That was maybe 10 years ago, but it's about probably six or seven years ago. I really got into studying them because I found out there were so many more than I then I realized. I was like, Jesus Christ. And then I started talking to people who are really educated and found out, well, Russia's been doing this since the 80s. You know, there's thousands of research papers

on all these things that we consider a novel. You know, in my approach to medicine is like, you know, you guys know this as well as anybody's like, what's the best way to eat, right? Is like, you know, keto, carnivore, paleo, or like, you know, vegan. You know, that should buy a session a lot. You know, so, you know, and you can stack up convincing

research on both sides of any issue, right? And it's, I don't know, it's so damn frustrating. Think, thankfully, you know, know, it's so damn frustrating. Thankfully, you know, thankfully, sleep's not like that. Sleep's interesting because the best argument I've ever heard or or maybe explanation of it's importance I ever heard was that if sleep, if evolution could have gotten rid of it, it would have.

Right now. That's how important it is. I mean, if you're totally unconscious, you're super vulnerable, you're not making shelter, you're not hunting, you're not getting resources. So if evolution could have figured out a way for us to like eventually not sleep at what of. I think you heard that from me. Maybe. I started saying that in 2008. I was like, if you think about it, it's the most vulnerable time for a human being. And you go back evolutionarily when we didn't have houses and brick walls and guns and stuff like that. It's like we were super super vulnerable at night. If we could have evolved to sleep four hours, that would have favored those people

would have procreated what we ended up with is night hours and hour and hour. Right? It's like you have people who want to go to bed really late and get up a little later, and you have people who want to go to bed really early and get up early. Well, that cuts down, like if it's a two hour shift, that cuts down four hours of the walk, right? So you have people, you have people awake

two hours early and two hours. And so like that's how we handle it. So, but it's still, it's only four hours of like everybody being asleep and then you get two hours on each side where you have like an alarm bell, right? So yeah, so anyway, my whole approach is like we evolved to be on this planet, we evolved to eat a certain way,

move a certain way, you know, think a certain way, like deal with a certain amount of stress. And so when you have conflicting research, I just go for like, how do we evolve? Like, that's probably the best way, right? Millions of years of evolution has led us like still on the same planet. You would think we would use the resources that are on this planet and try to mimic that as much as we can.

So everything I do, I would much rather just try to re-approximate youth, right? So you peak around 25 to 35. What do your hormones look like? What do your inflammatory cascades like? What do your... It's not about propel to use, isn't it? It's like, I'm just gonna use this.

I'm not gonna make you 25, but I'm gonna make you metabolically, physiologically 25. If I handed your labs to somebody, they'd thank you for 25. Yeah, well, peat fertility looks like a sentence. Right. And so we just, I move everything towards that. And peptides are already in your body, right? logically 25 if I handed your labs to somebody they'd thank you for telling me what fertility looks like essentially. Right. And so we just, I move everything towards that.

And peptides are already in your body, right? We're just like hyper-concentrating things that are already there. You know, it's just like, well, you know, growth hormone breaks up until like seven different molecules. And we can, well, this one really improves fatty acid oxidation. So we just need that one if we want to increase, just put that part in there. And so, you know, it's a little bit of trickery there, but I totally believe in just like eating the way we evolved to eat and moving and exercising the way that we evolved in sleeping the way we evolved to sleep and, you know, controlling our stress the best we

can in this non-ideal world. The big problem is that we, our environment has changed far faster than we can evolve. Yeah, we can evolve to keep up with it. No, no, because the search for shelter, the search for making life easy, that's all, it was all evolutionary beneficial up until we really figured things out and learned how to make things change really quick. Yeah, we hit some sort of watershed point where, I mean, you think about 200 years of your life is about survival. And every year from when you before that,

it's like you got out of your cave, your little mud hut or whatever, got off your bed of straw and like, you went out and you procured few, few food, tried not to get killed, you know, maybe, maybe get, have sex with your wife here now, now and then and reproduce. Like, and that was it, like that was your life.

And like, there were male roles and female roles and everybody had to do their job. And your goal was to make it till tomorrow. And then at some point, we got to this point where it's like, well, no, I'm gonna live to be to 80. And I only have a 2000,000 square foot house, and my buddy's got a 5,000 square foot house, and I'd love to have a jacuzzi in my kitchen,

and like whatever. And you just start doing all kinds of stupid things, you know, and all those things are just adding stressors. I remember talking to my grandfather, my, my, my, my, the production of immigrants. So my, my family's very poor where they came from. Remember talking to my grandfather, and he said, so you go to the gym,

I said, yeah, and he goes, so you just lift things and put them down. He goes, for what? What are you building? And I remember him telling me, he says, you know, when I was growing up, he goes, if someone said they're nearer or they're backer, it's because they worked too much.

He goes, you guys complain to the stuff because you don't do anything. Right. So totally different, totally different game now. It's not because of overuse, it's all because of underuse. You know, I want to ask you about hormones when you were talking about just kind of these, these positive feedback loops. And you mentioned the stress hormones.

Insulin resistance is a real thing. And essentially, your body's not responding to the insulin that you have. So your body has to produce more insulin to cause the same effect than it. Eventually, it turns into something really bad. I know with testosterone, with high level athletes that use performance and dancing drugs,

at some point, you use so much testosterone receptors maybe down regulate or whatever. Does that have all the stress hormones? In other words, can you develop something like cortisol resistance where your body makes more cortisol to keep you more alert, but then that cortisol becomes less effective. So you gotta make more cortisol to the point

where you start to crash. Because I know really, really bad forms of HPA axis dysfunction look like extreme fatigue, can't move or whatever, you test their cortisol. And it's like, is that a thing? Can that happen? So every hormone in your body is that way. Most hormones, anything comes from cholesterol, which

cortisol is one of those. Most hormones can diffuse end to cells. They don't need to sell cellular membrane receptor. They just diffuse into the cell. And then there's a receptor within the side of the cell that brings them to the nucleus for the most part and affects epigenetic expression. So any hormone that I give you is going to down-regulate your own production. And then over time, if I'm super physiologic with it, I'm gonna decrease my receptors. So, if I, like, let's say,

if I, and this wouldn't be possible, but let's say if I gave you melatonin, and I gave you the ideal amount, which is what your brain was used to seeing all the time, and then really quickly I shut your own production off, and then you just had a normal amount of melatonin because I'm giving you the normal amount, but you just aren't producing any, then you just had a normal amount of melatonin because I'm giving you the normal amount, but you just aren't producing any, then you'd have normal receptors. But that's not,

that's not how hormones work because hormones are super pulsatile and they're happening in tiny little fractions. Like, like, like, a, a, a, a, a, males testicles produce like 20 to 25 milligrams of testosterone per night, right? Like you're not getting these big bullets. So you take an injection of 200 milligrams. Well, your brain and body have never seen 200 milligrams. They've seen 20 like at the peak, right? So now you get this super high level. That super high level, of course, leads to a huge flush over the estrogen, which is a zone problem, but it also leads to down regulating everyseptice, because your body's a super smart machine. If there's a thousand testosterone molecules,

and I only need two or three, how many receptors do I need? Not that many, but if there's only two testosterone molecules around, I'm gonna have as many receptors as I can possibly make, because I like eat cells as its own thing, it's all trying to survive. In fact, they find this as men as they get older. If they're healthy and they get older, you'll see some dips in testosterone, but you'll see an increase in angiogen receptor density. Almost like it's

making up for. Yeah, and you can compensate for that. So you have two, you have two problems. If you go super physiologic, you're definitely wiping out decreasing anglerian receptors. Now you think about, let's say, if I give you 200 milligram injection, it's 10 times the one in your body would ordinarily see in that 24-hour period. So let's say I cut your testosterone receptors down, make themathy to a cut of a half, right? So now, if you had a high normal testosterone level of a thousand integrals per desoleter, you only have half the receptors. You actually have a total testosterone of 500. Effectively, right. Effectively, that's all you have. And so when you do this big shot, you go up and then you start coming back down. When you get to a thousand, you're deficient over time, right? Because you only, now you're like at 500. But the shots go like you go

up to, you know, you go up to 2000, you come down to 1000, you come down to 500 before you do your next shot. So from a thousand to 500, you're under, like your under toast, right? And so you, and that's because of receptor density right there. Now, there's other things that Androgens are doing in your body. And so, you're definitely causing yourself harm because those things, like those Androgens can go, like that testosterone can go into make DHT and that DHT can enlarge your prostate or cause you to go bald or like, you know, it affects cognition. There's all sorts of things you can do. So, you don't want to, like, you know, what bodybuilders and stuff like they go super physiologic and they take all kinds

of stuff because they're trying to get this maximum amount of muscle growth in this very short period of time. And then they don't care what happens after the competition. And then, like, you know, they're obviously terribly unhealthy people. And so everything I do, like said, if I could get somebody to do a testosterone injection every day, I would. I was just gonna ask, so when do you recommend that? I do it every other day.

Do you propryone? Sipinate. So it's still just sipinate. It's super small. So it's 40 milligrams every other day. And it was a subcure still on Trimupcure. Wow. That's oil.

So that doesn't leave a big ass lump in it. Now, if you use Nangelone, which I sometimes use Nangelone, if people have like joint pains, because it helps a lot with your pain. If you just use Nangelone by itself, that doesn't do subcue very well. That does cause some problems. But if you mix it and do 50, 50 testosterone.

So that's an out of order. I don't know, has something to do with the molecule itself being irritating, I think. So it's sippin' a subcue every other day, every other day. And it has a long half life, but still. Yeah. So what I'm trying to do is like maintain, so, and when I test people's blood levels, you know, when I'm testing people's blood levels, they're only changing about about to about two or three hundred milligrams a day, which is normal. Two or three hundred nanograms for desolate or per day, which is normal. Two or three hundred milligrams for a desolate or per day,

which is what you ordinarily would change. That's why you do it in the morning because you're about 300 points lower before you go to bed than you are in the morning. And so, you draw it up with a 20 gauge needle but then I put a 26 gauge needle, which is only bigger than a inch. I was just gonna ask you like, how the hell?

And you can put it anywhere. Like you can put it anywhere. Cause I'm on testosterone replacement. Okay, you put it in your fat, you put it anywhere you can pinch some shank. Cause I take your 15 minutes to push through a 26 gauge. No problem. It takes it, it takes probably 20.

So I've read that that also lowers by doing the small doses. This is really totally new. If we brought the sub 10 years, people would say, why would you do that? Yeah, I thought it was stupid years ago because you're putting fat and that's where all your romanticists. Right? Yeah, I can very well.

If anything, you get less of it. You didn't turn out that way. You get less sex binding, globulin, hormone globulin. Yeah, hormone globulin. You get less of a conversion to estrogen. This is what I'm reading so far. I haven't seen that. I control sex sexual and binding

Galibulin pretty fanatically because that's the primary driver of which free. Okay. So every everything in your bloodstream is being escorted by protein. Albuiman is the most common one. And Albuiman is escorts almost everything. Albuiman will bind things irreversibly or reversibly.

So it goes by a cell that needs that testosterone molecule, Albumin will let it go. Section of unbinding glybulin doesn't let it go. Once it binds, it's useless. It goes through the liver, gets chopped up, made into completely different compounds. So you want that to be low. The lower that is, the higher your free percentage is.

Free is not bound to albumin or Section of unbinding glybulin. That's just which floating around your bloodstream. If it's if it's free and bound albumin that we call that bioavailable, I don't trust that. It's not because it's not something that I can say definitively how well like how well are you diffusing from that. So I go off of free. Um, and so if I can drive sexual mabondagbeling down to what a 25 year old man has, that's 15 to 20, right? And that gives you about a 3% free. So if I can do that, I don't have to get your testosterone super high.

So like when I'm doing conservative treatment and I'm getting a clomaphat and I'm giving DHEA and pregnant alone and a rheumatizing hybrid and like doing like that, I don't have to get you to a thousand. I'd still like to if I can, but if I get you to 700, but it'd give you a 3% free. Well, now you have a free of 21, which is like the upper quintile of the range. Wow. And there's a- What lowers this so is it the- in clomaphine? Like what would you- what would you take to lower that-

Well, long term if you keep estrogen low, and again, I don't- I don't let estrogen go above 20. Oh, really? I keep it somewhere between 10 and 20 because that's what the framing ham data showed was normal for 20 year olds or 25 year olds like all the lab Normal values change over the years every 10,000 tests. They just based off the average at their interview So right so if you go back to framing ham data normal test oxygen was 250 to 1100 Section one bonding Galagol in any young man was 15 to 1100. Section 1 bonding Galibulin and a young man was 15 to 20,

Estardial was 10 to 20, and that's what I go re-approximate. So if you keep Estardial, the primary driver section 1 bonding Galibulin is Estardial. So if you keep Estardin low enough, Section 1 bonding Galibulin doesn't climb back up. It's still can, by and large it doesn't. I can crush that with this synthetic testosterone. So something like Stonazzleau or Oxangeloam, I don't give you enough to have any physiologic infection. I can get faster or lean or anything. Just to lower that.

But you do it for about six weeks. Like Monday, Wednesday, Friday for six weeks, and I'll drop, I mean, I've seen people who've sex on the binding components of 200. So they don't have any free. Like it it doesn't matter what they're totalist. It's not only free period. And I see this a lot with people who are getting treated out and docking a box of clinics. They come and say, me and I'm like, hey, I've been on testosterone therapy for three

years. And I'm like, yeah, your estradiol is 200. And your second body, 11, 115, you're free zero. Wow. And so keeping estradiol low in the long term and then the synthetics, you do that for six to eight weeks. I can take a section I'm combining glibin from six year 80 down to target range of 10 to 20. Well, what do you, what do you think is because you know, we talked about sleep and how that affects testosterone and what do you think is happening?

Because over the last six decades or so, we've just seen this nice, consistent drop into testosterone and man, to where it's significant. Wow. Like a 20-something-year-old male today is comparable to testosterone to like a 60-something year-old in 1980, whatever. So, do you think it's just lifestyle, just lack of sleep? Just I think there's a lot of stuff. I think it's just lifestyle just lack of sleep just I think there's a lot of things everything so

Oh, some of the we're talking about for the podcast started You know decreasing week man in the world. You mean increasing week man decreasing Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's a work trend. It was decreasing Increasing the number of week man and so I Just find it and this sounds conspiratorial to have no evidence of that because I but I find it, and this sounds conspiratorial, to have no evidence to back this up, but I find it really, really strange that every chemical toxin acts like estrogen,

the role of zero estrogen, right? So BPAs from plastic, pesticides, weed killing products, like all these chemical compounds in an environment that are causing is probably cleaning products They all act like estrogen in the body That's definitely a component the fact that nobody works out hard anymore like we think about like if you just work hard all the time Like you don't have to work out like I like plugging my clients like they don't They don't have any athletic ambitions. I'm like, you just, just, you know, be active and do your own stuff, right? Like use the stairs, mow your lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn,

lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn,

lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, lawn, it, if you do hit, you can convert some of your DHEA intermustularity to testosterone. It's a very, it's a small amount. So intensity basically. But also the more, like the more fit your muscles are, the more demanding are your muscles, the more angiogen receptor you're going to have in the more testosterone you're going to take up, which means you're going to have less in the bloodstream

to signal the brain to shut it down. So, I mean, that's definitely a component too. And chronic stress and sleep deprivation. I mean, I, you know, obviously my, you know, I have that supplement on the sides. I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to be self-remotional, but I don't think there's anything that's important to sleep. I don't think there's anything anywhere close to being asleep.

Well, there's nothing that will negatively impact your health. And that quickly... Nothing breaks you faster than sleep. In fact, nothing There's nothing that'll negatively impact your health. And quickly, nothing breaks you faster, the more sleep. In fact, nothing will improve your life faster than improving your sleep. Have you utilized, I mean, we've talked about how profound the supplement is that you've formulated.

What about it, and you just mention how sleep, you don't think anything compares that. Have you used peptides in order to really enhance somebody's sleep, and have you seen any profound effects of that? Yeah, so anything you do, growth hormone-wise, whether you're actually giving somebody growth hormone, you're just giving me a circuity-gog, growl in the metic or circuity-gog.

Anytime you're increasing overall growth hormone on IGF1, you're improving a lot of the metabolic pathways. You get one of the things you're drastically're drastically increasing your brain sensitivity to GABA, but it's also affecting some other pathways, increasing delta brainwave sleep or delta-slow sleep. And things like that. There's a peptide called DSIP. I've tried that. Yeah, it's either delta or deep sleep- sleep inducing peptide. I've seen it.

But it's about a 50-50 for me. It's like 50% of my clients take it and say, nothing, I don't get anything out of it. And 50% go, yeah, it works. And maybe 20% are like fanatical about it, yeah, it really works. But if you use it long term, it actually re-regulates your pituitary hormones as well,

and it helps the real lines are cady and rhythms. So I used that. I used the thymulins that will increase melatonin production. It worked for me, but I had to take half the dose. I took a full dose, and I would wake up and feel nauseous, it was really strange. I took half and it did work for me for sure. And then there's other peptides like Simon and Althe, T before, T B 500, which are, those are sort of regenerative peptides. They help with immune function and they help repair injuries, regenerate cartilage and connective tissue and things like that.

But they also work on the pineal gland and Epistatial on works more on the pineal gland. But any time you're stimulating the pineal gland, you're overall increasing melatonin production and improving circadian rhythm alignment, because you can't just get melatonin just to create it anytime, like it has to be kind of done along with the circadian rhythm. The peptide, the two peptides,

they use a combination, the most impactful error felt was the thymus and beta and BPC157 combined those two. I noticed, I viewed them worn. That's the grill in mimetic. Okay, I viewed them worn was like, I mean, I stuck like a baby when I was taking them. Yeah, maybe that's the growth hormone effect. It has a huge appetite. Oh, man, I full-clothed too much, but it's not even myself in my face. That one also, that one also can like double or triple cortisol too though. Oh really? And over a long term. So MK677, you don't want to do that. I never do it more than

eight weeks. Some people say 12 weeks, but it'll drastically reduce insulin sensitivity, hugely increased cortisol levels as well. And it desensitizes really quick, like all of the early ones desensitize really quick. So like the hex, the hexa relans and anything with this, anything with relan on it. And then, and then anything with the six on it, like the GH, GH, you know, in like a matter of weeks, you're decreasing. So there's actually a neuron in the peptide and the pituitary that's being targeted and that neuron will actually retreat into the peptide and to the pituitary is that gets too high and you can get it to do it irreversibly. Oh, interesting. Oh, that's not good. Yeah, so that's why I never use hexa-reling because that's known for that.

I stick with CJC if I'm rolling, if I'm going to just create a guy. The good old CJC deck. What about a test of my... Test of my own. Test of my own is awesome, but it's really hard to get. Yeah. And it's huge, it really expensive because you need two milligrams a day of that. I used to use that all the time.

Taylor made had that five or six years ago, very reasonably priced. And like that's by far, and then the MK677 can also go super physiologic on it, because it's not affected by the feedback loop, whereas Tess and Merle and I could match. It was a lot of it. And never got anybody super physiologic,

no matter how much they took. So that's really a great one. Yeah, and some Mk6, seven, seven, seven, that I beat him more and that you were talking about. Yeah, but that one for me was like, because when I communicated that on the podcast, because people like, they like the growth hormones

and greedy dogs to help them get leaner. I'm like, I don't know if you, I beat him more in or Mk6, that's a tough one to get lean on for me. Because my appetite is, Yeah, you eat like a pig on a Yeah, and you'll gain like 30 pounds in eight weeks Yeah, then you'll lose 10 or you lose 20 of it like

Almost it was the most insane bulking Wow, so when you're when you're looking at somebody's and you're working with somebody looking at their sleep What about sleep like habits like for for example, I found for myself, like I learned this a while ago, it was a huge one. It's just going to bed at the same time waking up at the same time every day because I had heard it communicated that. We essentially just sleep, you know,

jet lag ourselves every Monday because we go to bed late Friday night, sleep in Saturday, late Saturday night, sleep in Sunday, and then it's like you're pushing your skating rhythm off two, three hours every single week and have to readjust. So that was a big one. Do you have like, are there big, big ones for you that you're like, okay, let's try this first.

So, you know, despite, you know, doing all the things I've talked about, you know, nutrition, exercise, stress, mitigation, mindfulness training, peptides, saroms, serms, hormones, hyperbaric, psychedelics, I call it. The most powerful thing I do is like just three-page worksheet that I've come up with. I can give it to you. I can give it to you guys to pump out to your audience, whatever. And the foundation of is what you're talking about, right? So we're trying to reset circadian rhythms, but the number one reason, like I said earlier, psychophysiologic and somnion people can't sleep because they're worried they can't sleep. So when people lay in bed and they can't sleep, they start stressing. And then they'll look at the clock and they'll try to figure out how many I just start doing

math. Like, if I don't, you know, like if I go back to sleeping, I feel like I'm a male and now they're waking up and they're like, well, I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health.

I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health.

I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a mental health. I don't have a their distribution, man, because that's everywhere in the world and it's truth you too. So I tell all my clients, I'm like 80% of the time, dude.

80% of the time, do everything right. 20% of the time you're going to fall off. Don't beat yourself up about us, the way it goes. And the whole point of being really healthy and resilient is so that I can do that 20% and it doesn't kill me, right? So like I can go out and do something stupid with my buddies if I want to and like sleep to pride myself a little bit or say I'm late, or whatever, over trained for a bit. So, I tell people, you set two alarm clock,

you set an alarm clock to tell you when it's time to get ready to go to bed. That alarm clock is just as important as the morning alarm clock. I mean, it's identical. You have to get up and go to work, you have to go to sleep. The psychology component, sort of the CBT component of this is the most important part, though,

and that takes four to six weeks to kind of click in. But the gist of it is the most capable you were, you ever are in any 24 hour period, it's about 90 minutes to four hours after you wake up. So if you have important stuff to handle in your life, things that are stressing you about, for instance, that's the time to handle. That's PQ, that's the best you are. If you're gonna fight Mike Tyson, do you wanna be your best?

Or do you wanna be a mediocre? It's like, well, I'm gonna get killed anyway, but maybe I'll survive if I can be my best, right? And so, the alarm clock says it's time to get ready for bed. Nobody gets ready for bed anymore. Evolutionarily, the sun went down, we didn't go to sleep for three hours, right? And so the long clock says it's time to get ready for bed. Nobody gets ready for bed anymore. Evolutionarily, the sun went down. We didn't go to sleep for three hours, right? Because it takes time for all the physiologic changes in our brain. Sleep hygiene is three things. Decrease blue light, decrease activity, your interaction with the world, right? What you're thinking about, how much you're

acting, how much you're moving, lower body temperature. Sun went down, blue light went away, GABA gets secreted, your brain slows down. World gets colder, you get colder. That's what we evolved to. That's what makes us feel sleepy. Adenisine sleep pressure, it's slightly different. But so nobody's gonna spend three hours getting ready for bed, but maybe an hour, so you're gonna go to bed at 10,

nine o'clock, no more blue light, no Texas chainsaw master curtain, no working on work products, no work, you know, work projects, no working out, you know, no karate in the job, in the garage, any of that stuff like you do, it depends on how you do it. Okay. Oh my come on man. You have an hour to get ready for your bed. Once that hour happens, you get into bed, back up. You start with a list. You do this during the day when you're not going to be stressed

or maybe 5 p.m. your brain's working fine. You take a line right down the middle of a piece of notebook paper on one side is the to-do list. The other side is the to-worry list. The difference being to-do, you actually know what to do. There's some action to be taken to worry. You don't know what you're gonna do about it,

but you know you're gonna worry about it and you don't wanna forget to worry about it. So you're just gonna like, you have no control of it, but put it on the list, and you'll understand why in a second. So, and then to do, it goes out as far as you will stress. If you're somebody who will stress over something six months away, that needs to be on you to do list.

Oh, I see. If you're somebody like me, who doesn't think more than a day ahead, it's like what I do tomorrow. That's all on my list, right? And then that's handwritten. You put it next to your bed with the pencils. So if you forget anything, you can get up and put that on your list. So you go to bed, 10 o'clock. 9 o'clock alarm clock goes off, you decrease blue light, decrease activity, you turn the temperature down, you take a cool shower or something that lower your body temperature. Those three things, getting bed at 9 o'clock, your goal is to be in

bed until that morning alarm clock goes off. And I don't care if you need an alarm clock or not, but you're because that's something you can worry about. What if I oversleep if I don't have so you're going to have an alarm clock? That's going to be eight hours after you get in bed. From the time you get in the bed until the time that alarm clock goes off, you have one job to relax as much as possible. So you're going to lay down, you're going to do meditation, prayer, breath work, progressive muscle relaxation, guided meditation, whatever the hell relaxes you. I don't care. And if you do that for eight hours, get up the next day and go to work. Okay. That won't happen. You start, you start doing that. You're going to fall asleep. If you wake up, there's no, there's no

cues to tell you what time it is, right? You're in a black.room. There's no, no, there's no reason for you to know what time it is. You're not going to look at the clock. If you add, go to the bathroom, get up, go to the bathroom, get back in bed. You don't know if your alarm clock is going up four hours from now or 15 minutes from now. Don't check it. Don't look. You lay down in bed and go, I'm going to lay here and do breath box breeding until my alarm clock goes off or I fall back asleep. If your alarm clock is not going to go for four hours, you're going to fall back asleep. If it alarm clock's not gonna go for four hours, you're gonna fall back asleep. If it goes off 15 minutes later,

you got seven hours and 45 minutes of sleep and 15 minutes of box breathing, now you're at your best, get up and go. Once you realize that the best you can possibly be for tomorrow, is if that's all you've done. If anything pops up in your head that's on that list, you go, that's on my list. I do that in the morning.

I'm not, why am I going to handle that now? Why am I going to worry about something? I can't physically take any action on. It's on my list. I'm going to do it in the morning. Like once you can get yourself to believe that, then you can truly relax. And as soon as people can truly relax and just lay there, they don't have any idea how much they slept, right? Because all they did was meditate and sleep.

And maybe they slept eight hours, maybe they slept four hours, maybe they slept six hours, they don't know, they know they're meditated for a while and they know they slept for a while. And then over time, you'll just sleep the whole night. Yeah, you know, something I just started doing, which I mean, now talking about it's like obvious, but a lot of us, when we're in bed, we'll go on our phones, right?

Terrible idea, right? But this is, and we'll read articles, social media, whatever. For a long time, people read paper books in bed. And so for myself, if I have issues with sleep, what can happen with me is I'll start thinking about something. And then my mind will start to spin around that and then it becomes very difficult. But if I read a fiction book, not nonfiction, nonfiction will get me spinning. I start read about something, biography or something interesting. I can stay up. But if I read fiction

on paper with a little dim light or whatever, it puts me up in a dream land very quickly. So that's a new thing that I started. So that's the same technique, right? So we're just replacing the book with box reading, progressive, or relaxation, meditation, prayer, like whatever it is that you do to relax yourself. Just find like three or four ways to reduce your stress, figure out what works for you and you do that. And we're just replacing that because the book can get interesting. All right. And that can push replacing that because the book can get interesting. All right. And that can push you off. No 30 minutes. You're right. And then you are getting some light in your eyes. You could wear blue blocking glasses, but you know, it just makes more sense. Just say,

hey, I have 16 hours. Everything I can get done in a day. I have eight hours to repair and prepare for tomorrow. And if I want to be prepared tomorrow, because obviously my goal tomorrow is to be the best I can. There's no way I can be my best if I don't get eight hours of sleep. All right. What do you do about when you travel? We just went through a month and a half of five time zones in 30 days.

I mean, it was crazy. And that really will throw you off. Is there any ways you could help accelerate the acclimation to a new time zone or maybe mitigate some negatives? So that can get super complex and convoluted and people forget when I try to get too technical with it. The easiest thing I can say is that if you stimulate your brain and body early in the morning, you will go to sleep earlier that night. You're bringing your circadian rhythm towards you. Okay. If you want to go to bed later, you put that stuff later in the day.

All right, so if you put bright lights in your eyes at 7 p.m. You do like 30 minutes of bright lights there. And you don't and you don't need a high-lux box or whatever. But you don't stare in the light, it's like 30 degrees above this. You get a bunch of light, you get a bunch of sun suns, I don't recommend tanning beds, but you know the idea. So you get a lot of light, that will make it harder to go to sleep because that's revving up your cortisol levels again, stimulating your brain up. And then exercise, exercise raises your heart rate, raises your mind up. And then exercise, like exercise exercises, raises your heart, raises your mind, all the great, like all the stuff and it makes it harder to sleep. So, if you, you know, you fly somewhere, it's like, hey man, bedtime, you know, I want to go to bed

right now. I need to stay up for four more hours. I was like, get, you know, get your workout and get your bright light at the end of the day. At the opposite's true. and it's like, hey, here I am waking up at four o'clock in the morning, and I'm not going to be sleepy when 10 o'clock comes around tonight. Get your bright light therapy, get your exercise in the morning. And then of course, you can use stimulants to kind of push things out. But I don't recommend that the half life of caffeine is ridiculously variable. It's anywhere from like four hours to 30 hours, so you need to know where you lay on that genetic way, like how you're looking for a breaks it down.

Yeah, it's a huge, huge lead genetic thing. So if you know how well you process alcohol, you know, I'd give yourself like two half-lice before you go to bed, you know, like before your bedtime. And then, you know, if you aren't getting good sleep when you're traveling, I highly recommend apps. I mean, there's a lot of controversy around that. It's a great book by Sarah Medneck out of UCSD called Taken App and it has this little wheel on it and you can put in what time you woke up

and what you're trying to optimize. You're trying to optimize creativity, cognitive functioning or overall health. It's you'll tell you what time of day to take an app and for how long. If you take a really short nap, it increases creativity. If you take a medium nap, creativity, and cognitive functioning, executive functioning. And then if you do like a sleep cycle, like 90 minutes or something, then you get like a sleep cycle.

So you get like everything you would get in your first sleep cycle of night. You get all the metabolic hormonal repair, immune improvement and all that stuff. So we've asked a lot of questions that I think will tremendous value to the R audience. So I have some selfish stuff that I want to ask you to make seal stuff. Bad as seal you've ever met. Why? Well, I mean, there's a caveat to that because I didn't operate with a lot of these over the lot of guys I know, right? So as far as

the guys that I've trained with and I know really well, my buddy that I talked about taking down to Mexico for the Ibogaine,, hardest man of ever known in my life. Like, can't even imagine him dying. You know, like I made a joke one time about him getting killed by a grizzly bear and he laughed. You know, grizzly bear can't kill me. And he was serious. I mean, like we all know of grizzly bear,

but he's a super hard man. I mean, I mean, we all know of Gryzl, but he's a super hard man. I mean, you hear Marcus, Marcus lived a trail story, and I mean, one of my old times, just surviving that, like you've got to be one of the hardest men on the planet to live through what he's lived through, and for it not to cognitively destroy you too,

to live with all of that too. What's the spectrum look like? I mean, obviously anyone who makes it has got to be kind of a heart. I mean, you're already a badass just to even make that elite group. Is there a spectrum within that spectrum? Like, is there, I mean, you got these 10 or 12 guys

in this group and there's, for sure. Okay. I mean, there's, you know, it's a community and it takes all kinds of guys. Like, you know, when I went through, Sil-Train, like, seals are bigger now, like once they started getting some kind of celebrity status, then it got super competitive to get into Sil-Train. Like I couldn't even get into Sil-Train. You know, like, really it's changed that much.

Like, yeah, people with PhDs going in and listed just because it's so hard to get in, you know. I mean, it's a super competitive, and I don't know about now, but during the war, it definitely was that crazy. But when I went through seal training, everybody was a little Endura machine, man, because that's all we did. We just ran swim, calisthenics, calisthenics, runs, running like 10 miles a day, swimming miles a day, doing calisthenics for hours a day. And everybody, there was like five foot eight and that was one of the first thing that surprised me

was the size of your fuel seal. And then I, you know, on these conditioning runs and the instructors out there running, you know, six minute miles, five and a half minute miles for six, seven miles. Like, my big ass can't keep up with that. You kidding me, dude? Just like, you know, actually, I mean, I, towards the end of buds, I could keep up, but I lost a ton of weight. But it's like, I lost 40 pounds in six months.

Whoa. Yeah. Oh, and I wasn't fat at all. I mean, I was, I was very lean when I started about. I just lost all my muscle. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What are the characteristics that make the baddest, baddest seal? I mean, what is it? You have to have a little bit of crazy to you. Are you just hardest nails, resilient? I mean, all those things. I think a clear set of principles, you know, that's always a good guidance tool for anything in the world, you know, because there's always going to be confusing situations.

And so when you have a really clear why and clear set of principles, why you why you do the things you do and why you're there, that helps a lot. You obviously have to be, I don't know, athletic is the right term, but, you know, very physically adaptable and strong and resilient. But, you know, to make it through training, like most of my friends and I, the consensus amongst all of us has always been that the guys who make it or the guys who are literally

legitimately willing to die to make it through training. Which is pathological at 18, to think that you're going to die using through training. Which is pathological at 18. Do you know what you think that you're gonna die? You're gonna die using some training. But I remember half a dozen times in buds thinking, all right, I'm about to die. Like I can't keep doing this. This is gonna kill me, but I ain't quitting.

So here we go. I talked to somebody who's stealing. He told me that, I mean, people, you get into the testing, I mean, you got the physical fitness of past. Right. It's the mental part that fucks it. And it's what you just explained right there.

Are you willing to just keep doing this? Yeah, and, yeah, the seal teams forever have been trying to predict success because 85% of the people fail, which means 85 cents of every dollar that goes into training is wasted. Mm-hmm. So it's a huge financial gain if they can predict success. which means 85 cents of every dollar that goes into training is wasted. So it's a huge financial gain if they can predict success.

And one of my good friends is a sports psychologist, and they hired him. He spent like two years trying to figure out a success pathway. Like some markers, like what can I do to bring? And he finally came to conclusions that I can't I can't I can't predict success But I can predict failure. Yeah, and he said The amount of adversity that you've had in your life is the best predictor whether or not you'll make it and if the worst Things ever happen to you use your parents got divorced You shouldn't be coming here. I was gonna ask you I was gonna ask you that I had a similar

Childhood as you did and I think think that's part of what has always made me very interested in the seals and stuff like that. I would, is most the guy, and at 18 years old, if you have that switch, if I'm willing to go till I die, I would imagine most all of them that make it come from kind of a rough background. I can't, you doubt you get the... We were the dirty dozen back then.

I mean, like, you know, the Vietnam Air Vietnam air seals were sketchy dudes and those were our instructors And and like you know we're You know you hear their stories about Somebody going in front of the judge and saying you're either going in the military or you're going to prison I knew four of those guys Like it and one platoon. I had four of those guys in oneatoon. So like it is legitimate. I mean, but like I said, it's usually people,

like I know, I mean, not that I want to give any gratitude to my stepfather, but like the amount of mental torture, I took, mental emotional, physical too, but like the mental emotional torture of my life was much harder than the stuff they were doing. I could kind of go, you kind of juvenile, you can't just need to up the stuff. I like 18 years old, and I know exactly what you're doing. And this isn't tricking me at all. Do you remember when that's, so it took me till I was about my mid to late 20s before

I shifted my mindset from the victim mentality of feeling sorry for the way I grew up to realizing, like, oh shit, this is my superpower. Was I went through a lot more than the average kid had to go through and so it made me, do you remember at what point in your life that you kind of, because I'm sure as a young 17-H and you're old, you probably hated your stepdad

and maybe even had some resentment towards your mom because she married him some more to like me. At what point did that swell? So, I think for me, my mom didn't get remarried until I was eight. And so I had been the man of the house for my mom, her sister, my sister, and my grandmother. I was the only male there. They sent me out in the living room with my red rider BB gun when they thought they heard something at two in the morning.

So I thought like I was the man and the family, and then she got remarried and this dude was abusive like the first day. I mean, there's an immediate. And I really thought I could step in and protect, right? And then of course, I couldn couldn't I was eight and you know and so That screwed with my mindset for for a while But he knew he knew my real father my real father was Bigger stronger smarter better looking like whatever like he was and so he really hated me

Because I was like the potential of that and his biggest fear was that I was going to grow to be a better man than he was or something. And because I knew that about my father, I just thought, well, I'm going to be like my father and then I'm going to kick his ass. And so like I started lifting weights like immediately. Like the first Christmas were married, they were married, I told my mom, I want to wait set. I didn't know how to do anything, but I just did overhead press with the hollow bar with the red concrete fill things. We all worked out. And I just, I just lifted weights all day and then I, you know, I did martial arts and I boxed and I played football on a rent track and field and just like, I was just going

to be so big and strong that, you know, And that was kind of my mindset the whole time. So I had two brothers and two sisters though, that all ended up shattered lives, alcoholic drug addicts and all that other stuff. Like none of them adopted that mindset that I had. I didn't know. What age was it when you hit that point, when you could defend yourself and when he probably no longer fucked with you?

It's 16 years old. I had him on his knees crying with a gun in his mouth. Oh, wow. Whoa. Shit. No shit. Wow. Wow.

Fortunately the cops showed up and I didn't end up in prison for the rest of my life. But that was the end of any animosity between he and I. And then okay, did you still, I was out by 17, so I left. They got divorced when I was 16. Oh, so. And then he broke into our house. Also, it was after tour the house, all the pieces,

I came home, blood everywhere, furniture broke in. He comes and cuts us off on the road and says, I just killed your mom. And went back to his house and took the keys of our car. We were in my mom's car, my sister's driving. And so I ran to my house on the middle of the street, like December and pair of running shorts, barefoot, ran to my house about a mile,

got a gun, ran to his house, it was about two miles away, kicked in his front door, jumped on and beat the shit out of him a little and put the gun in his mouth and then cops kicked in the door. Holy cow. Whoa. Wow. Yeah.

That'll grow you up real quick. Yeah, real quick. Wow. So later on when you were doing, have you done the psychedelic therapy and all that stuff? I've done all pretty much all of it. When you do that, did that help? Because obviously it turned you into who you were.

But then there's also side effects of that, right? Did you ever try to integrate all that or? Yeah, I mean, I definitely repress a lot of stuff. Like I don't have any, I have very, very few memories from my childhood, but it's like almost none. And most of what I know, it's because my brothers and sisters have talked about it 50 times,

and now I remember it, but if they didn't talk about it, I would have, I think I'd have none. Other than maybe the story I just told you, that's probably the one I would remember. And the first psychedelic I did was ayahuasca. Oh, you went big right over the chest. And there was three nights, three nights in a row and I kept trying

To reflect on my childhood and I couldn't it was too too too too too. Your brain was protecting you I don't know because I was so gone like I'm so sensitive I could tell like just a joke I This is years ago. I had a girlfriend at the time and she was 110 pounds She took twice as much as I did Like I I took it, they said, hey, we're going to give you this 45 minutes later, we'll, to an hour later, we'll ask if anybody wants more. And then, you know, you go up to the man told there and you drink it and then you

crawl back to your mat and you lay down, by the time I laid down, I was off the planet. Like, I was just like, and I just remember, I'm just laying there going too much, too much. I was like, too much, too much. And like I was paralyzed and I had just, all these images going through my heads, like it felt like 300 different images per second. Just like everything was flipping so fast.

And I was just overwhelmed, I'm going, whoa. And like, I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to get anything out of this because I can't think, like I can't even concentrate on any of this, it's going so fast. And then after a long kind of lay, then I'm like, I'm like, geez, maybe this is almost over, like maybe even second, and then I hear him go,

anybody want seconds? I was like, oh man, my heart is just sank. And then my girlfriend's like, I do. I'm like, so I'm asking you, lady. And then she goes up and gets it and still like, and then the next night I tried to do it, the next night I tried to do it, I did five of the meo DMT, which is just like a super universal one,

that's kind of meeting God thing, ego death, but that's super fast, almost never is there negative things in that. I did psilocybin, I just psilocybin retreat, and I fought Satan through it. That's all I could figure it was. Like I fought Satan for like six hours, and I still couldn't think of my stepdad.

I did I begin. I've tried ketamine therapy. I've never tried ketamine. I just did that. I just did eight weeks of ketamine therapy. That was really interesting. So that one, I've done the ketamine nasal spray.

I've never done the ketamine injections or IB. So you know the research, but I do, but from what I've read on this, because I got really into it, for certain types of PTSD, those cluster of symptoms, or whatever, it seems to be really good because it's such a strong disassociative. So literally, because the theory is,

the reason why people don't remember these memories or whether repress is, you can't, your brain doesn't, it's safe, it's not safe. Sorry, I can't let you remember this. And so the disassociative makes literally, because you can disassociate, you feel safe enough to have. Yeah.

And that was the experience I had my wife did the same thing here to one, so. Yeah, I mean, sort of the quintessential pathway of all the psychedelics is that, you know, it represses the ego enough for you to see things you need to work on, right? So it's like, there's no solutions there.

It's just like it opens up a bunch of doors for you. It's like, you wanna see that, see that, see that. A lot of people do, I began and say, that they watch themselves, watch themselves, and that's one of the ways you get the ego out of it, because if it's not you doing it. This is a term for that, it's like super something, right? Yeah, yeah. And so there's a lot of metaphors around watching a movie of the life, or watching television or life, whatever, and the idea of that, you know, and I just probably had a lot to do with the omega

leitone going away, being less stress, um, opening up your prefrontal cortex and all that. Because, yeah, we protect ourselves all the time. I mean, like, we're protecting ourselves with our posture right now, like everything's like, and then 90% of it's subconscious, but you get rid of that. And then you can go back and reconsider things, and that's where neuroplasticity comes from.

That's right. And neuroplasticity is that I don't think about the same thing the same way all the time. Right. So I get to see it and go, well, that's kind of a dumb idea. Like I always do that. Like here's 20 examples in my life of me doing that thing. Now I didn't solve it. I still have to figure out how I don't do it in the future and the longer that neuroplasticity. You got to see it first. Yeah, but you have to see it first. And so you get the answers and then you start going through, hey, well, I got to do, I got to do the work,

I got to keep on this, I got to figure out how I'm going to not do that anymore. And then the longer, the higher the durability of whatever you're using, the more chances you have to do that, right? So if you have, like, I began this going to last nine months and you're going to have this decrease to the end of the tone and like a hyper-neuroplastic brain where you can make these changes

as long as you're doing the work to make the changes, you come out of that. If you don't do anything, you just go right back to where. Well, some people just use it almost like it's a high. But it's kinda popular. Yeah, the therapy that I did was with therapists. It was all legit, I mean, that's the only way to do it. Yeah, and we didn't start doing it that way

in a special warfare community, but we're doing it that way now. And I think that's smart because it's like a double-edged sword, too, because if you're not, especially if you don't have someone there helping to integrate with you and your brain does think, oh, you're safe, here you go, and it's not. It doesn't feel, it maybe it wasn't safe.

It can actually make things worse and those people come out with like really terrible experiences. Right. You have kids? I do, I have three. You have three? Where are the ages? 25, 23 and 19.

Okay, so you had just four kids. Okay, what was it, yeah, what was it like then, especially with all the trauma you had growing up and probably the hard ass that you were raising a kid that far back, you're 25 year old. What was that? I mean, do you imagine obviously much wiser today than you were 25 years ago? The way I used my childhood experience and my stepfather was, I'm not doing this to sound

like a victim would be hyperbolic, but I genuinely, he's genuinely the worst person I know. Like in every metric of how I'd measure somebody, he's the worst person I know. So anytime I came to our crossroads, I'd go, what would he do? I'm just doing the opposite. I'm just doing the opposite. I feel like I've never raised a hand on my kids. I've hardly even yelled at my kids.

I punish them those rules, but it's like a soft punishment. It's like you never take away your phone or whatever, something like that. But yeah, I mean, I think it, you know, at the end of the day, it probably made me a much more compassionate father because I just realized what not to do.

I feel like you're dysfunctional. It was one of the other in that situation. Yeah, you either repeat the cycle or you go the opposite where you're just like you exactly you look at the way they did things and you're like I'm going to the only people I've ever met my life who are like I never touch alcohol never touch whatever drugs whatever it's because the the parents are yes and they're just like no but don't have no interest whatsoever you know well I I grew up similarly so yeah I'm from like pure white trash family, 10th generation Texans, lots of trailer parks,

and all that. Like the Jerry Springer show people, and that was popular. I was like, why did people watch this? It's like, this is my neighbor's cause. I've got my family does this. Like all this stuff, I know, like every kind of criminal you can imagine, I had my family.

I had 27 cousins, I think, 25 of the 27 are in prison or Wow, and they were all they were all in the drugs, you know, and they were all into criminal activity and I was just like I'm not gonna be that person man until like when I was playing Texas 5A football and a few guys are like, hey we can get a little steroids and a little faster and stronger. I'm like, dude, that's just like heroin to me. Like you're putting a needle in your stuff and you're taking a drug like from hell no, I'm not doing any of that.

And I drink beer, but I wouldn't let myself get drunk in a, like I probably get drunk maybe two or three times in high school. I just never wanted to relinquish that control and maybe get to where it's going to do something really stupid. Yeah, so I kind kinda had that same response, even that wasn't like my parents, but just growing up in an environment like that, where you see the holes that everybody are digging

for themselves every day. And it's like, I can't go down that way. I mean, now that you have kids that are that grown and you look back now, what do you think are some of the best things that you did, raising them as a father, and then maybe what are some things you might have done differently the best things that you did raising them as a father and then maybe what are some things You might have done differently or maybe mistakes that you did

Well If I'm honest I raised my boys and my daughter completely difference. I have two sons and a daughter My my boys I was I was probably a little My boys, I was probably a little insufficient in my empathy and compassion for them. You just harder on that. It's a little hard on them, just because I'm traditional, I think men have a role, and part of that role is being stoic and being a protector and doing shit that you're scared of and do what you don't want to do and making it look like you're not scared like that's kind of part of it for me and not necessarily right. So that would be my regret but I think I think the

benefit for them is that I showed them a way to be like you know masculine and strong and definitive and a provider and a protector and not be a prick. Not be like, no, maybe they've seen me angry once. I mean, they've seen me pissed off at the airport, but everybody's pissed off at the airport. Everybody's pissed off at the airport. It's like it's their four hours early. That's a big joke about it right here. And then my daughter is a little bit the other way.

I probably just let her manipulate me, you know, because, I mean, you know, those daughters, big eyes, a little bit of tears, and I'm just like, oh, I can't do that. I got two and two. You know what's funny is that you're talking a lot of parents, and I see this with my wife too. It seems like dads are a little harder on their sons

and moms are a little harder on the daughters. My daughters manipulate their shit out of me. But with their mom, it's not like that. And I think it's because we get, like I get what's going on with my boy. Right, I mean, so it's like now it is my- We know it might be a boy, we know what they're trying to fool.

And the same thing with moms and daughters. And we don't think that about, like we don't think women do the things they do. Especially when you get really close to a woman, she starts telling you how women, and you're like, what? Women do that, you kid me. I never thought that.

Never planned. I remember my daughter, she, I had my kids like 50, 50, I got divorced with their mom, and so they had two weeks of my house, weeks of their house and there was an overlap for Halloween They were doing two different Halloween's and so they did Halloween at my neighborhood first And they got I mean buckets of candy like just huge I'm like, hey, you'll just leave that candy here and you're going to your mom some on it and do that there and when you come back

Here you'll have your candy here and Then I went in my daughter's bedroom to Tucker her in later on and her candy wasn't up on the counter. And I was like, where's candy baby? And she's like, I don't know. I'm like, it's a little sketchy. And I'm like, what do you mean? You don't know? I don't know. I left it up there. And I kind of moved some things. And I'm like, is it in your backpack? And she's like, and I'm like, is it in your backpack? And she's like, no. And I'm like, I'm gonna open this backpack. Are you sure it's not in there?

Is she scrying? No, it's not in there. And I opened, of course, it's in there. And I did this thing where like I didn't pay my kids real money, but I paid them, I went to like the dollar store and get those like fake bills. And I paid them for their chores and for their work. And they get money for grades and for good manners

and whatever. And I would take money away. We had this chart on the wall and all these things they wanted and it took like $5,000 to be able to do this and whatever. And so my daughter was saving to go to Paris. And I'm like, I forgot, taking $100,000 away or something like that.

And it was like, she literally had to save like $10,000. Cause it's like, it's big bills I'm giving them. And I take that away and she's just screaming and crying. He's like, I'm never gonna get to bear her. And she just all in her eyes out. And I'm like, I'm sitting there just like playing tough. I'm like, honey, you knew the rules. Like, you know, everybody tries to do these things

It's not right and you lied to me and like you know I'm just super calm and I went my room I nearly threw up And I said my room and cried for like five minutes ago Yeah, she's always had that power of me my my boys wrecked their bikes. You bleed. Never I'm like walk it off. You'll be fine. Which one? Which one? So where's your daughter? Fall. She's the youngest. She's 19. Yeah. So what have you? She's a used to year of I'm okay. So so is she scared

to bring a boy home? I mean, she's got to have a boyfriend. I mean, like, she's taking a break. I don't know. I mean, I live in Austin. She's at UC Irvine. So like, she could have whatever going on. But like, every time I see her or see her on social media, whatever, the randomly there's a guy in the picture.

But she's kind of like a goody-tish who's a girl, which is great for me. Good for you. Yeah, that's great. I'm happy for that. I'm glad she's not one of those Instagram girls showing her butt. Oh, god, my world. That has to be the biggest fear of every fall.

Oh, right. Right. It's the best. Yeah, when I was a kid, it's like your job as a dad's keep your dad off the pole, right? If she's on the pole, you failed. There's no way around that. Yeah. And now it's like if she's in Instagram model. Yeah. Have you seen that meme where the guy in a girl at bar and he's like, what do you do? She's

said, Instagram model. He said, what do you do? I'm a, yeah, what do you do? I'm a soldier, call the duty call the duty. I haven't seen that. I haven't seen that. It was soldier for Call the Duty. Perfect. We're good deal, man. This has been great.

We've been in the great conversation. Glad we finally leaked out. We got to meet you with a mutual friend. So we'll make sure that people check out your book. It's the title we have it up there. Sleep to win, how Navy seals into the high performers. Yeah. It's the on top great stuff.

You have incredible insight. And I really love meeting people with a medical background who also walked the walk. You just did just the great combination of experience and book knowledge and application. Yeah, so I think the I think the medical community has been in a bad place for a long time, but it totally emulated during COVID. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't think anybody's going to, I'm kind of embarrassed to say I'm a doctor. I'm like, they crushed her.

And I'm really not. I mean, I'm really a health coach that can prescribe, you know, because I do lifestyle modification is really what I do. And it takes about a year to do that, you know, so I do annual programs. But yeah, it's, it's a shame that doctors have been so much led the way they have, you know. But you think about who becomes a doctor, it's like people who are really good at following the rules, right? Like people who are great students

and do all the things they're supposed to be doing. And that's what gets them in a medical school. And then it's really hard to convince them they've been duped, you know, and, you know, and. And the pharmaceutical industry, I used to think this was such a big conspiracy boarded COVID-19, you might have had a lot of stuff. But you think about it, I don't think it was really intentional

nobody thought this through, but all of the research dollars to the big universities come from the pharmaceutical industry and then who's doing the research dollars to the big university's come from the pharmaceutical industry and then who's doing the research, the guys who are the medical school professors and what are they teaching what they're doing research on. And then when you become a doctor and they get a panel of all these guys who've been doing researches at the top levels and then they set what the standard of care is, it's based off their research and what they've taught their medical students.

And now you come out of there and all you know how to do is prescribe pills and procedures. And that's not health. I mean, that's disease care, right? And so like, the biggest, well, the seals, the seals teams are the best thing in my life twice. I mean, the first time as a seal probably

kept me out of prison. And then, you know, the second time made me realize there's a huge difference between health and disease free, right? And like, this is just performance. Like guys, guys, like just plenty of really healthy people that can't perform the way they want to perform, because I know things and I have the expertise to help them do that. And it has nothing to do with them having a disease or even and it's close to a disease. And I recognize all of you.

It prevents disease. Right. So what you do with that, that prevents disease. Absolutely. You're keeping them out of the system. Yeah. Well, again, focus. Thanks again.

Dr. Prosper, this is an awesome and hopefully we have back it on the table. We'll, if you all want to come up, I mean, if you want to say it on here, if you all want to come up with like a URL, we'll give that, we'll give that thing to your guys. Absolutely. That sheet, that worksheet.

Oh, for sure, 100%. That's the easiest. I wasn't gonna ask anyway, because once you said that, I know our listeners are gonna wanna check out that worksheet. Yeah. And it's just for warning, it seems ridiculously easy,

but it's the most powerful thing I do. That's for the moment. That's the thing. It's a common factor. It's a good timing too. We just rode a program for 40 plus, and it's the first time we rode a program where we actually put a ton of emphasis on lifestyle. A lot of it is stuff that you talked about since it'll align perfect.

I love it. Thanks again. Thanks. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically

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