Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2249: What to Do if You Are Feeling Burnt Out From Exercise, the Truth About Becoming “Muscle Bound,” Secrets From Old Time Lifters & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind, pop, mind, pop with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we answered live callers questions. But this was after an intro portion, 62 minutes long. So we talk about current events, family life, scientific studies and much more. By the way,

Starting point is 00:00:30 you could check the show notes for timestamps if you want to skip around your favorite parts. Also, if you want to be on an episode like this one live, email us your question at live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Legion, and right now, they have a new supplement that improves blood flow for the pump, and it's stimulant-free. Go check it out. They have many other products as well, but Legion is known to have the best quality, most effective supplements for muscle building,

Starting point is 00:00:59 fat loss, and performance. Go check them out. Go to buylegion.com-forwards-line-pump. Use the code MindPump, get yourself a discount. The set of so it's also brought to you by organify. They offer healthy organics supplements, one of which is their chaligee gummies. They're currently sold out. Hopefully by the time this airs, they will have more chaligee is an aeravetic supplement that has many, many studies supporting its use. Go check them out. Go to organifi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com forward slash MindPump.

Starting point is 00:01:30 Use the code MindPump get 20% off. We also have a workout program sale going on this month. It's January. So that's what we did. We put together some workout program bundles and we discounted them heavily. 300 to 350 dollars off. Here are the bundles. We have the new to weightlifting bundle,

Starting point is 00:01:48 the body transformation bundle, the new year extreme intensity bundle, and the body transformation bundle 2.0. All of those available now, all of them on sale, go check them out, go to mapsgenuary.com. All right, here comes the show. Look, strength isn't just your muscles contracting. Strength is also a skill.

Starting point is 00:02:08 What does that mean? The more you can practice an exercise, the better you can get at your biomechanics and your control, the stronger you're going to be. Now, what does that mean? That means you'll get more out of the exercise. So the skill of the lift is just as important as the size of your muscle fibers

Starting point is 00:02:26 or how hard your muscles can contract. This one strength athletes know very well. Yeah, we have a great example when we compare like a bodybuilder's physique to an Olympic lifter's physique. There's a perfect example of like, you've got these Olympic lifters that look like they're half the human that some of these bodybuilders are, yet they have the capability to lift

Starting point is 00:02:50 sometimes two times more than what they are. Do you know, are you familiar with any studies that actually break down the math behind that like, technique and central nervous system inform and practicing is represents what percentage of strength versus just overall volume and size of muscle fibers. Like, you know, what the ratio is. I know we could speculate. That's a really good question.

Starting point is 00:03:17 I would use power lifters as a better example, not because Olympic lifters don't have skill. They have tremendous skill in what they're doing. But because the lifts are so explosive and it lacks the eccentric, it lacks the lowering of the weight, Olympic lifters are not going to get as much hypertrophy as let's say powerlifters. Now powerlifters, they lift more like bodybuilders and Olympic lifters do. Now are powerlifters not muscular? No, they're very muscular.

Starting point is 00:03:45 Oh, I think that Olympic lifters are a better example of your analogy you're giving though. You don't, you think power lifters are a better example? Just to compare to bodybuilders because bodybuilders benched deadlift and squat, bodybuilders don't clean and snatch and they don't drop the weight.

Starting point is 00:04:00 They typically lower the weight with control whereas power lifters lower with control. So when you want to look at like the hypertrophy differences, the muscle growth differences, I think it's a little better, like a power lifter can squat, a tremendous amount of weight, it typically has big thighs as well. But powerlifters focus a lot on technique. Everything is about the perfect position of the bar. You'll watch them place their feet a certain way.

Starting point is 00:04:23 They go down slowly to stay perfectly in alignment so they can exert the force in the bar, you'll watch them place their feet a certain way. They go down slowly to stay perfectly in alignment so they can exert the force in the right direction, whereas bodybuilders more are, by the way, bodybuilders, people get this misconstrued. They're also very focused on technique. Now, their technique focuses more about the feel of the muscle versus moving the way. Yeah, they'd rather feel the muscle burn and fatigue and get a pump over leveraging the most amount of weight. Yes, yes, yes. But like, okay, so like there was a study recently that,

Starting point is 00:04:53 you know, just came out, Lane Norton actually covered it. I think I talked a little bit about this on a previous podcast, but they compared lifters who trained at sub-intensity level. So they didn't train to failure, but they practiced the exercises a bit more often versus another group that trained at very high intensities. And the group that didn't go to failure built more muscle.

Starting point is 00:05:16 Now, to be clear, there's studies that show that intensity will build more muscle than what I just said. So there's always contradicting studies and we can get into why. But the reason I think those people built more muscle than what I just said. So there's always contradicting studies and we can get into why. But the reason I think those people built more muscle is because practicing technique is better when you're not training at super high intensities. Like the second you go super hard, your technique goes out the window, your fatigue. So like you'll see this with power lifters,

Starting point is 00:05:42 they rarely will train with their max. They'll train at sub max levels and you'll watch them like try to really perfect the technique and skill of the lift. Now for the average person, this matters because the better you can do a squat, the more you'll get out of it, right? The better you could bench. The more you'll get out of it. Yes, it's the hard wiring sort of process to that. That's why technique does matter so much, regardless of what you're doing. Even if you go through a stint of it, just to get your body to use that is like it's operating system. This is how we move, the weight is how we perform the exercise.

Starting point is 00:06:19 So it's not, when you under a state of fatigue, you're not just reverting to, by any means necessary, posturally, to reverting to by any means necessary posturally to be able to muscle it up. There's a bit of a caveat to that, though, because when I do an exercise like a bench press, squat is like this, even deadlift to an extent is like this. I need enough weight that it helps me have to focus on bracing all over. That is, like, so like when I warm up for a squat,

Starting point is 00:06:49 just doing the bar is a waste of time almost. Because it's such light weight that it doesn't force me to intrinsically brace my core and be rigid. And so it just feels flimsy when you're warming up. So there is like, you want to have enough intensity that it forces you to brace really well, stay rigid, stay tight, but not so much weight that it fatiques the muscle and you didn't get

Starting point is 00:07:15 good practice from it. No, I understand 100%. And again, if we go back to studies on strength training, you can find studies that show that low reps build more muscle than high reps and you'll find other studies that show high reps, build more muscle. You'll find some that show multiple sets, does better than single sets, then you'll find other studies that show single sets to failure, do better, you'll see time under tension, it works better, but then you'll see like, you know, studies that show that explosive

Starting point is 00:07:43 movements or faster pace builds. And so it's like all these contradicting studies. The point I want to make with this is all the there isn't a single strength training controlled study that's three years long or even a year long. They're all 12 we eight weeks 12 weeks 16 weeks at most. And the body adapts very quickly. All these things have value. So like for the average person listening, I think it's important that you go and you train to just feel the muscle. But I also think it's important you go and practice the exercise itself and master the skill.

Starting point is 00:08:15 It all has value. Unless you plan on working out for 12 weeks and then stopping, right? But if you want to keep going and keep progressing, that's why these debates over studies. It just sounds like you talk in circles because there's so many methods that have value. And I mean, it gets frustrating because it's dogmatic on one end versus the other. And people are trying to pull you into their camp

Starting point is 00:08:37 and it's like, look, there's value to this because obviously it's going to build muscle. If I'm focused on hypertrophy, you visibly see that. If I'm just working on my central nervous system, I'm going to build strength, you know, if I'm focused on hypertrophy, you visibly see that. You know, if I'm just working on my central nervous system, I'm going to build strength, which in fact also builds muscle. And it's, there's so many methods in between, acute variables, you can mess and tweak with. And so it just becomes this like, what are we doing? Like, we're just going to sit here and debate like, all these like valing and nothing works the same time. Yeah, yeah, you said the rotate them around. Now it's all within reason, right?

Starting point is 00:09:09 Because there's things outside the realm of what's gonna help. But like it would be like, you know, and this is much more clear, but it would be like a study showing like, hey, if you improve airflow on an engine, it gets more horsepower and then someone else is like, well, actually, if you change the gear ratios, that makes it go faster.

Starting point is 00:09:24 And then the other person's like, well, you know, if you make just the engine bigger, you just have to get the right time. You've got everybody competing, right? And when everybody needs to say, like, actually, it all works together. And there's a way to piece this all together, which is the most important thing.

Starting point is 00:09:37 Well, and then, okay, great analogy, because then there's the other thing too that has to be factored in is, like, what is gonna give you the greatest beg for your butt? Because then there's the other part of what we do in our space, which is we split hairs over some things that don't matter much. We tend to get hung up on, oh this is what really this is also kind of how I feel. And I know I'm going to get some flack for this because I know there's a camp around

Starting point is 00:09:57 the intensity thing of like having to go training to failure all the time. Like because we've had studies that have come out to show the benefits of training to failure that I don't disagree with, they're there, that that is something that you should do all the time. And in fact, it's like, yeah, there's tremendous value for building muscle with utilizing a tool like training to failure, but more often than not, if people abuse it, and my analogy

Starting point is 00:10:19 staying in the same vein as you are with the car, it's like, it's like nitrous for your car. And it's like, yes, it does give you extra horsepower. But if you run around fucking blasting that all the time like that, you're going to blow the engine or you don't have a good suspension or, you can't handle it. You can't handle it. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:10:36 You're just going to spin in the dirt. So it's literally like training the failure is nitrous for your car. It can be used. It can be valuable. it can be valuable, can help you win a race, it's gonna give you this. If you took a bunch of people that trained traditionally, that never lifted to failure, and you put them on a four week cycle

Starting point is 00:10:55 of cutting their volume down by a down to a third and going to failure, they will all see rapid results. On the flip side, you take a bunch of people who've been lifting to failure at low volume for a long time. You put them in a four week study where you increase the volume by three times and drop everybody down three, four reps from failure, you will also see gains in those people.

Starting point is 00:11:16 That's the thing that we don't see in studies. What we never see in studies, what do they always say? College-aged males trained or untrained. That's it. You never? College-aged males trained or untrained. That's it. You never see college-aged males who train and have been training for six months this way. Let's see how they respond now to this. If we saw that, I could predict, unless something's like outlandish and crazy, I could predict with really good accuracy, whether or not they're

Starting point is 00:11:40 going to respond well. Like, if you sent me a study and you said, here's 12 college-aged males. They've all been training like power lifters for the last six months. We're going to put whether or not they're gonna respond well. Like if you sent me a study and you said, here's 12 college days, males, they've all been training like power lifters for the last six months. We're gonna put them on a bodybuilding-style routine. What do you think will happen? We're all gonna get great, man. We never carry the study out beyond 12 weeks.

Starting point is 00:11:55 We do it in 12 weeks. And basically a mesocycle and that's it. We don't go, what happens when they train this way for a year and show the graph of, oh, here's the results. And then this is what happened after about four to six weeks. And then at the end of the year, here they are again. It's like that we don't show it that far.

Starting point is 00:12:12 We use a study to prove a point that, oh, this way of training or this modality or this thing is valuable. I'll use us as an example. We actually had a caller recently who called and we have people obviously call and we answer questions. And this woman had followed MAP's endabolic and she had cycled through it over and over again for about a year. Okay. We have a lot of people who listen to the show who start with MAP's endabolic,

Starting point is 00:12:38 who find it to be extremely effective, it blows their mind, and then they make the mistake of repeatedly running it over and over and over then they make the mistake of repeatedly running it over and over and over again, and never moving outside of it, okay? And so she was running into the problems that'll happen when you do that specifically without program. And there's other problems that'll happen with other programs, but specifically with MAPCentabolic,

Starting point is 00:12:58 it's a very, the movements are bilateral, you're working primarily on one plane of movement. And if you follow this program, because what'll happen is you'll follow it, if you don't work out that way, you're gonna be like, oh my God, this is the craziest thing. I'm getting all these amazing gains. This is all the reports we get.

Starting point is 00:13:14 And then you do it over and over again. Here's what happens, you start to hurt. You start to get tight. You start to notice joint pain. The gains slow down. The gains not only slow down, they start to go backwards because my hip hurts, my knee hurts, like what's going on?

Starting point is 00:13:24 Because no program is perfect. It's strong, but you like what's going on? Because no program is perfect. It's strong, but you're at a balance. Yes, no program is perfect. You have to move into something else if you want to continue this progress. So when these studies come out, and I fell for this man all the time, a study would come out, I'd be like, that's the new way I got to train. Then I'd do it, and I'd be convinced because for the next three, four weeks, gains would explode on my body. And then I'd be like, what's going on? It stopped again. I'd have to find the next study. Oh, it's that one. That's the way to do it. And it's just, no, it doesn't work that way. The body response, by the way, even what I'm saying now is going to mess

Starting point is 00:13:57 up a lot of people because I know those people listening were like, oh, it's novelty. Change everything all the time. No, that's wrong too. Yeah, I'm also a confusion. No, no, you got to stick to something long enough to start to reap its benefits and maximize what it does before you switch over. Changing everything all the time is also not the answer. Speaking of reaping benefits, so I saw, when I was a kid, one of my favorite supplements to use was no explode. I forgot about that. BSN was the brand that made it. And I just, I use super pump. It was like, I believe if I remember correctly, it was a vasodilator plus it had caffeine

Starting point is 00:14:35 in there too. So you felt the energy from the caffeine, you felt the pump from all the nitric oxide stuff that it had going on in there. It was a product that, one of the most consistently used product I ever used as a kid and I liked it, right? I saw that Legion, our buddy Mike, sent over a product that looks like something similar to that. I didn't get a chance to try it

Starting point is 00:14:59 and I didn't get a chance to even look at everything that's in it. I saw you took one, did you get a chance to try it, and what is in it in comparison to something like a product? Okay, so pre-workout, when they first started that whole market, the reason why they got so popular, there's two reasons. One, the marketing around some of the first pre-workouts was brilliant.

Starting point is 00:15:20 Super Pump, I think it was 250, or Super Pump, it was called by Gospari, was one of the first ones to use this brilliant, it's just, and we had Gospari in the show a long time ago and I told him brilliant marketing and literally what it was, and I remember the magazines, is it would show a dude with a shirt off who's kind of jacked before and after his workout.

Starting point is 00:15:39 So you can see the pump. And the, I mean, look, if I get pumped, I look like again 15 pounds of muscle, right? If you have some muscle and you get a pump and you're well hydrated, it looks dramatic. But it was such an effective ad because you look at it and you're like, I want to do that. And everybody likes the feeling of a pump. And what they had on them was a lot of caffeine and organin. Organin is an amino acid. It's a precursor or a building block to something called nitric oxide.

Starting point is 00:16:05 Nitric oxide is a very quickly released gas that dilates the blood vessels. So literally what it does is it relaxes. So think of your blood vessels as either being constricted, like when you're stressed out and stuff like that or like totally relaxed. When they're totally relaxed, there's more blood flow. So the theory is, well, more blood flow, you're going to get a better pump. Now we know that Argonine does something, but Citroen is probably more effective. There's other compounds out there that give you more blood flow. And the majority of the reason why pump, like pre-workout supplements are so popular has less to do with

Starting point is 00:16:42 the pump ingredients and more to do with the stimulant. Like, the most popular ones tend to have the best combinations of stimulants because that's really what you tend to feel. Okay. The problem with that is if you want to take a supplement that does have some effects on blood flow, you're kind of limited because everything's got

Starting point is 00:17:00 200 to 300, sometimes 400, or more milligrams of caffeine. So you're like, what do I take? Yeah, what do I take? Yeah, I mean, I wanna take something that give me a better pump, but I don't wanna take all these stimulants. Anyway, long story short,

Starting point is 00:17:15 there are compounds out there that do effectively raise nitric oxide to the point where some of them are being recommended now to people to take to lower blood pressure. So there are now medical journal studies that show there are certain compounds that you can take that will show a measurable reduction in blood pressure because of the vasodilating effect.

Starting point is 00:17:41 Wasn't that like the Viagra story? Viagra is a PDE5 inhibitor, very strong at increasing nitric acid. Yes, that raises that, cause PDE5 destroys nitric oxide. So when you inhibit that, you get more nitric oxide and you get a crazy, crazy blood flow.

Starting point is 00:17:57 So you get a bone. Right. In fact, if you wanna take something that's gonna give you the best blood flow for a pump, then yeah, Viagra would be like the same. Nothing would be that. Little Viagra and caffeine, let's go. So let's talk about that for a second.

Starting point is 00:18:11 Does increasing blood flow through the use of things that help increase nitric oxide contribute to better performance and better gains? There are studies that show that maybe, probably. There's nothing like inclusive, right? So there's no study that's like, oh yeah, you do this, you're gonna get these big gains. What you tend to see is the subjects got like a couple more reps or they weren't a sore muscle damage seems to be a little bit better. The perceived, you know, the perceived experience of the workout seemed to be a little bit better. For some reason, at altitude, it makes a big difference.

Starting point is 00:18:50 They did this with Niagara. They gave athletes Niagara, and it didn't show a difference, but if they were at altitude, it showed a difference, which makes sense because you need the red blood cells at altitude, you need more of them, you know, type of deal. Anyway, so long story short, what Lee Jen does, and this is what I like about Mike so much, he doesn't play the hype game. Like, there's a lot of hype around stuff and people will jump on all these different he'll, he'll cherry pick the things that have got the studies behind the support. He doesn't put a bunch of fluff in things. None of his supplements are like that. So you'll see like this latest,

Starting point is 00:19:24 everybody's talking about this thing and he'll be like that. So you'll see this latest, everybody's talking about this thing and he'll be like, I don't see anything supporting it. I'm not gonna waste my time on it. So all of us supplements are like, like literally it highlights the efficacious dose, not nothing like exceeding that. Yeah, not just that, but he doesn't put,

Starting point is 00:19:38 because a lot of supplements will do this. They'll put a lot of everything in there, not a lot, a little bit of everything. So you read the ingredients. And it's always stuff that like is new that people heard that, oh, this might be working for this and the people will rush to catch the wave. That's right. People interested in it, throw it all in a supplement.

Starting point is 00:19:56 Forget, does it work well together? Forget, is that a good enough dose for that? And they'll get if it's even been proven yet where Mike will wait and go like, okay, there's enough research supporting the positive benefits of that. That's going in there. Or the deal is called pixie dust thing. So there were two supplements. I remember specifically that did this very well.

Starting point is 00:20:12 There was a supplement called blue thunder. You guys remember blue thunder? The dream behind the counter. Yes, I remember that. Okay. Good, you got that. ABB made it, right? Yes.

Starting point is 00:20:21 Yeah. Blue thunder when you turned it around. First of all, I had a lot of caffeine in it. Yeah. So that's like the main ingredient. I had a bunch of shit. Oh, I had everything. And all the stuff I read about, a reality I had like a tiny bit in there.

Starting point is 00:20:33 Yeah, yeah. And in liquid forms. Yeah, it's a thunder. It's a thunder. But I remember reading the back of it, be like, oh my god, this has everything that I've ever read about. This must be amazing.

Starting point is 00:20:42 So that there was another supplement called Hot Stuff. Do you guys remember Hot Stuff? I don't remember Hot Stuff. I've heard you talk about it before. So there. So that, there was another supplement called Hot Stuff. Do you guys remember Hot Stuff? I don't remember Hot Stuff. I've heard you talk about it before. So there was a whole, you guys wanna hear something funny. Was it just nice? No, no, no. Hot Stuff.

Starting point is 00:20:53 The, there's this rumor about Hot Stuff that the original formula contained some anabolic steroids in it. No, that, so it was like sold, it wasn't like widely. No, it's almost like it's illegal almost. You're realizing it's, you got the hot stuff. No, everybody's like, oh, you take the original formula, hot stuff, you build a hell of muscle.

Starting point is 00:21:11 And then it got popular and apparently they changed the formula. This is the wonderful rumors of the muscle building world. But anyway, that was another supplement. You read the back, the ingredients. And it was like 85 different things. It's like, wow, this says ginseng, wow, this says smilax, wow, that has everything I've ever read about,

Starting point is 00:21:23 right? Pixie dusting. Mike doesn't do that. So here's what, wow, this has ginseng, wow, this has smilax, wow, that has everything I've ever read about, right? Pixie dusting. Mike doesn't do that. So here's what he put in this new supplement. And this new supplement is not, it is not stimulant based. It is literally, this will improve the pump and give you better performance, minus stimulant.

Starting point is 00:21:40 So what you could do, and I've tried it, I've tried it. What I did is I took this along with my normal caffeine supplement. So I add this stimulant to it and give it a shot. Here's what it has in it. So it's 2,000 milligrams of toerine. Toerine, we know, uh, does improve muscular power and endurance, probably through improving the production of dopamine in the brain. It also has something called of dopamine in the brain. It also has something called nitrous, I think I'm pronouncing that right. This particular product, this is an inocetal stabilized organine silicate. It's a type of organine that doesn't get degraded so easily in the gut, so it gets converted to nitric oxide. Oh, that's interesting because we figured out a while back that organine was a better...

Starting point is 00:22:23 That's that citrallym was. Oh, citrallym. Because organine will get degraded. Oh, that's interesting because we figured out a while back that Argonine was a better level. That's that's it really was. Oh, so the Argonine will get degraded. Oh, that's where it is. So like you take 3000 milligrams of it chunk of it. Well, most of it will get degraded. The study is an Argonine used injection, so it didn't really translate into the real world because nobody's injecting Argonine. Well, anyway, this is a type of Argonine that is stabilized through with something called

Starting point is 00:22:43 anositol and it does get converted to nitric oxide. So you'll see in studies more blood flow from this. It also has something called hisparadine, which is good for blood flow, muscular endurance power, and then grape seed extract. This one I've known about for a long time, that increases, so that increases blood flow. So it's a pretty awesome product

Starting point is 00:23:03 and I like it, especially for people who don't want stimulant or they want to drink coffee and they don't want to pre-work out because it's already got caffeine. They can add control. They're stimulant. They can add it to their to their stuff. It also the way that I would use this is if you have, let's say you have pulses of the pre-workout with caffeine in it and you're like, what do I do with this? I'm already using pulse. Use this a different time during the day. So you could take this not pre workout on an empty stomach and you're just going to improve blood flow. Improving blood through nitric oxide is healthy for you. And well, how do I know this? The studies on the most powerful nitric oxide boosts in the world, Viagra, show improvements in health.

Starting point is 00:23:48 So, I'm pretty sure it's here to tag. Wasn't Viagra originally earmarked for something else? Wasn't it for blood pressure? Yeah, so that was why they were targeting that in the first place. No, people came back from the study and they're like, well, there's a little, yeah, there seems to be a lower and a massive part of it. And you said effects, yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:04 I think snake venom too, was like, they're using, well, there's a little, yeah, there's some seems to be a low one. I got a passport. Side effects. Yeah. Well, I'm the big snake venom too. It was like, uh, there's a reason that for blood pressure. Oh, isn't there a type of venom, a venom where the side effect of it is you get like an uncontrollable erection and then you die. I'm almost what? What? What?

Starting point is 00:24:19 I just look at the name. I was messing with it because the beta walkers weren't doing them so well. Even the parents are waiting for't doing them so well. And even tried to wait a little bit. Yeah, I mean, with your friends. Yeah. What's wrong with John? Oh, he's playing, bro. Yeah, he's just messing with that.

Starting point is 00:24:33 He's messing with that. Obviously. I was he's happier right now. He seems to be fine. Dude, speaking of like Doug's looking that up to prove that's true or not, You guys have to watch. I watched by the way I watched Justin your sci-fi movie. I loved it.

Starting point is 00:24:49 Okay. How do you think? It was good. It was good. It wasn't quite put it on Maki. I was thinking, well that's a different. Yeah, that was like that was really. I'm actually upset I use it as a reference.

Starting point is 00:24:59 It was good difference. Hey, I'm glad you did because it got me to watch it. Katrina watched it and actually getting Katrina to watch a sci-fi is like so tough. And she watched it and she agreed. It was a better one. What I really enjoyed about it, and I think you kind of highlighted this part of it,

Starting point is 00:25:12 was that it, most of the, you know, AI into the world, you know, sci-fi movies is just the robots are killing all of us, which I mean, it was the other side, like they were the ones that were you just wanted sov and so forth. They were like, I just wanna survive, leave us alone, and the humans were like, trying to abolish them, and that was kind of a cool twist

Starting point is 00:25:36 to it, and very believable, like you said, a lot of the technology and how they use it. It was well done. I would imagine in a real world where AI, which obviously would be far more intelligent than us, if AI really did exist and told us, hey, we just wanna be left alone, just let us be over here.

Starting point is 00:25:56 I don't think we would. If we knew that there was a super, like way more intelligent species of something that lived on the same planet, there's no way human fear would allow us to let them live. We'd be like, we got a figure. Well, I mean Katrina has this question. She's like, you know, and I could see both,

Starting point is 00:26:13 that's why it was done so well that you could see both sides. And I feel like I can argue both cases, right? They also, without ruining the whole thing, like the, you know, AI was trying to create something to protect itself, right? But in the same token, it's going to have to destroy something that we've created that was put in place to protect us. And so if we knew AI was creating something like that, yeah, and they're a super weapon. Yeah. Yeah. They're not human beings, but also, so right, their fear would drive them. So why don't you think you got, I saw it don't give a human's, but also, so you're right, their fear would drive them.

Starting point is 00:26:45 So why don't you think you got, I saw it only got like a 64 rating or what do I think? I don't know, that's why I wanted to bring it up. And no one talked about it. Yeah, I was like, this is such crap. Like, this is a great movie. And I wonder how many movies like that are out there that just get like these terrible reviews.

Starting point is 00:26:59 And you're just like, what? This movie should have got way more attention and highlight it. What does that say, Doug? It is, huh? Well, it's a spider that causes the erections. Oh, yeah. So it's the banana spider in Brazil. Well, the banana spider. Yeah, which makes a lot of sense.

Starting point is 00:27:14 Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, one of the most deadly spiders in the world is the banana spider, but they say they could potentially use that as a erectile dysfunction medication. So dude gets bit by it. He's like, with his wife and he's dying, he's like, honey. One last time. What?

Starting point is 00:27:31 Right. He's this. That's funny. Yes, that was good. I wanted to bring up a ooze. That would look like. Yes. Gusty.

Starting point is 00:27:39 Huh. Creepy. Spiders. Creepy. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm more afraid of snakes or spiders. Spiders. Yes.

Starting point is 00:27:44 Spiders. Yes. Snakes don't. Yes. I lived with snakes're more afraid of snakes are spiders spiders. Yes, spiders. Yes, snakes don't, yes. I lived with snakes and I mean, I didn't like it, but and I feel like you can see a comment. Like the bigger the snake, the scarier it looks like a little tiny little snake like this is even, you know, a gardener snake or whatever, like that's not even scary at all.

Starting point is 00:27:58 A big snake is kind of scary, but then he's big enough that you see it and you see it coming and you probably hear it. Spiders, have you seen the video creep up on, a spiral come up on your shoulder and you're not even know stop it. Listen, as you guys see the video, there's I think it's got to be an Australia because they have all the weird shit. There was a spider like one of those massive ones.

Starting point is 00:28:15 Yeah. And it was on someone's wall carrying a rat. No, no, no, it was just on the wall and the dude shot it to kill it. You shot all the way. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Somebody sent in from Australia, when we were talking the last time we talked about this,

Starting point is 00:28:29 they had sent in a clip of one carrying a rat up the wall. Yeah, I saw that. I mean, that's good. So how do you get rid of a spider that big? It was like this big. What do you do? I don't want to smash it. What do I do?

Starting point is 00:28:40 No, you smash it? You get to get a shot. Yeah, you got to shovel it. Would you be able to just blast it with a shovel? Yeah, you would yeah I might pull the gun out Wast the hole in the house to kill it. Oh, you can repair holes, dude. That's all I'm saying imagine you miss Yeah, oh god. Yeah, no spiders get out. Hey, so I watched something that you guys got to watch now So it's on Netflix. It's called Bitcoin.

Starting point is 00:29:06 Oh, I saw that. I haven't watched it. So the store without ruining the whole story or what about that, it was, it's based on the biggest case that the SEC filed on all the crypto coins that were all that hype that happened in the last two years or whatever, three years it's been. I don't know, four years even now.

Starting point is 00:29:24 It's been a while That and they were it was the first big case and you get to hear from the the FBI and SEC like they were they were waiting They were waiting like they're like we were they knew it was all this rapid fraud was happening But they wanted to find a case that was that was big enough they can make an example of it. It was the first big case you meant an example of. And the story is great. I mean, the whole thing is crazy. How it ends is crazy. The time that the guys that did it, what they had to serve,

Starting point is 00:29:54 he was facing like 170 years and stuff like that. So what ended up happening to him? He was only 20-something year old, 20-year-old guys that were creating this thing. The part that I thought was crazy, that it's not really a spoiler, but at the end, they start putting up the statistics of all this scams. So, you know what percentage of these coins, they have proven to be scams that they say

Starting point is 00:30:17 are what percentage are? Oh, no. Like, 78%. Wow. Are you serious? Wow. That's nuts. Wow, that's nuts. Wow That's that's that's terrible It that's wild to think that there's that much

Starting point is 00:30:31 Crifters that are out there right now and you know it's crazy to me about this kind of stuff I mean rage is a shit out of me is that and I'm not saying is good that people are creating fake coins and whatever Or stealing you know with them, But you get a kid like that, he did, you know, big scam, right? Hundreds, they're gonna charge him and put him in jail potentially for a hundred plus years. Then you get perverts that touch kids or reduce, and they don't go to jail. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:01 They get in the public's face. They don't go to jail at all. Or if they do, it's nothing. Yeah, I don't understand that Where the fuck are our values? I don't get that shit no reckoning if you counterfeit money, you're fucked According to our laws you are screwed. I mean yeah, we're sitting a pre-reliant. You heard a kid you heard a kid You probably you could not you could get away with that one jail the government's the the biggest mafia the biggest gangsters in the world is the government and You fuck with their money. That's what I mean you fuck with somebody else Well, that's a slap on the wrist or will you know, I'm saying like that's in there in their in their eyes their world

Starting point is 00:31:37 You fuck with the mafia's money and so that you're gonna you're gonna get you're gonna get it That's the same thing. I mean that what it shows you the disconnect the value It is it's it's just a truth. I'm not saying it shouldn't we can we can hurt each other all we want But we you come after their money or what they they they believe to be their money. I'm sorry dude My values are you heard a kid? I mean, that's the worst we're on a we're on a grants on that But when we're you know we're ran or our rules are made up by I know by a We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way.

Starting point is 00:32:10 We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in a great way. We're all in I heard kids, oh, that's weird. Say speaking of that. I didn't have this plan, so I didn't write it down,

Starting point is 00:32:26 but I'll look at it. There's a fitness guy, okay? And I just found him recently, I started following him. So, and I'm always hesitant to shout somebody out that I don't know a lot about yet, but I'll at least share that I started following and it intrigued me by his content. He is, he's got to kind of lane Norton Esk as far as like the going after people

Starting point is 00:32:47 and so that, but he goes after all these fake and fitness influencers that Photoshop their photos, do all these things. What I thought was really cool, but he and he also goes after pedophiles and he sets them up. So how does he mix that in with fitness? I, I, that seems like a weird company. I, so I don't know enough about him, his history and how that, how that got intertwined. Yeah. But he's found, he has found this and, and he, what he does a lot of times is like he, he donates a lot of the money and proceeds as you get to, to helping all this. So it's kind of cool what he does, helping kids and like,

Starting point is 00:33:26 so I like what I've seen so far. I think his Instagram is goob, GOB, or underscore GOB, maybe Andrew, someone could look it up while I talk to him. I did go after him. So the ones that I said, well the Instagram ones are the photoshopping ones are basic, right? I mean, that's like a simple as like, there's this big influence.

Starting point is 00:33:47 Chris Hansen, is that his name or he shows up? Yeah. You're going to want to sit down. Yeah. But what is the guy always? So it's, it's a, it's a, dogged's, goob underscore you, there he is right there. And so he'll find, and what he does is he basically puts him out there. So he'll find these, these predators, you see, like he says, exposing predators, right?

Starting point is 00:34:09 And he'll do a whole thing and he'll, he'll, he'll put their shit on blast. This is where they work. This is where they live. This is their full neck. Like, yes. Like that. It's kind of cool what he does. And I found him through our other friend, Christa Gibi, and started up, there's one right there, right?

Starting point is 00:34:25 There's the tattoo artist guy right there exposing predators. So yeah, his whole page is around exposing predators or exposing fitness frauds, and people that are scamming people online. And he does it in a pretty cool way. He's also, like, again, really big on, like for Christmas, he did this huge toy drive.

Starting point is 00:34:44 I think he drove like $30,000 worth of toys for kids and stuff like that. So I like what I see so far, just literally, if you know what I found. Any strong, he's a strong buff dude. Oh, good. Yeah, let's wait. There's these weird hikes intertwined those,

Starting point is 00:34:59 but it's cool. I know it's weird. You know what, I'm sure, and maybe he'll hear this. I'm sure he'll get back to him, and then maybe we'll talk. I'll find out his story. I don't know his full story of what made him go the stretch. And I'm guessing. So I've got two passions.

Starting point is 00:35:14 Lifting weights and killing. That's a fine, that's fine. Well, I wasn't thinking about this. You brought up the vigilante thinking of like, this kind of reminds me of that. You know what I'm saying? Like this dude just has this mission to go. I just fuck with all these pedophiles.

Starting point is 00:35:27 I'm here for it. Have you guys seen these guys online that will with us head count, you know, yeah, have you? There's these guys online that will you know how you get like these telemarketers that are just fraudsters and they'll try to talk you into giving you control of their yeah, laptop or The lie to you. I'm about this warranty and then they'll steal your money

Starting point is 00:35:47 or whatever. There's this guy who's like a master hacker and he plays along. I don't know what his name is. We gotta find him. He plays along and then he gets control of the desktop of these callers who are like in India or in other countries.

Starting point is 00:36:02 And then he tells them who they are. He watches them through their camera. He, any, what's that? The whole operation. What's that on that documentary that we were all watching last year? Yeah, on HBO.

Starting point is 00:36:11 Yeah, there was the telemarker one. Yeah, the telemarketing ones. Oh, I haven't seen that. Oh, how did you not finish that? Yeah, they got this. There's a guy on there that does that. The way they panic. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:21 It's on the phone. Those are, yeah, amazing. You know, if you're scrambling like, you know, bunch of cockroaches like, ah, they're onto us. I'm a, hey, speaking of scrambling. So this may be a little late, but we got to bring this up because it's one of the weirdest social media stories that I've seen a long time.

Starting point is 00:36:39 The Miami Mall incident that, I don't know if people have heard of this, but I caught it on X. There was this woman. You sent it to me right away, which I immediately sent it to Justin. So there's this woman that gets on and the original video was this woman saying, hey, there's like a hundred cop cars driving to, I don't remember what mall it was, a Miami. like a hundred cop cars driving to, I don't remember what mall it was in Miami. The original report was that there were teenagers fighting each other with sticks.

Starting point is 00:37:10 It's like a kind of gang related like firework. But she's like, why are there and there's film of like hundreds of cop cars? Just, it looks like hundreds, right? Rolling up. Cop cars rolling up. There's easily a couple hundred. No power, 20 miles in every direction

Starting point is 00:37:26 from the mall. So all power cut out, all internet cut out, the airport shut down. So there was no communication whatsoever. And the weird part is zero film from inside this mall. And then the report started come out. And they kept getting taken down, but people were writing about it. There's these eight to 10 foot tall creatures, or beings, and people were shooting at them with their side arms, and they would pop in and out of existence, and like all this weird.

Starting point is 00:38:01 So you guys brought this up last week. Yes. Has it evolved anymore? You just get a few more eyewitness testimonials, certain that kind of come out and kind of like backing up what you're saying in terms of them popping in and out. And like it was really a weird like, they were terrified. Like they were like, and again, you know, like it could be

Starting point is 00:38:22 acting or whatever, just like, it's just weird trying to get attention, but yeah, but at the same time, oh, you sent me one, it had like looked like there was a footage of a portal, like it looked like it's just a, it looked like a light start, it didn't, it grew, grew, grew, grew, and then like freaking out, and then it just kind of exploded and then kind of disappeared. And they're like, what? And everybody freaked out. You can see everybody running. There's video from apartment buildings far away where they had power

Starting point is 00:38:52 and they were filming it from their phones. And there's one that you can kind of looks like a tall gray like being walking in front of the club cars. Yeah, that one's a little, that one is too hard to tell. It's rough because you could also, it looks like a couple of people together, kind of walking, you know, so it's like,

Starting point is 00:39:10 is that a couple of people? Or is that one thing that's really big in comparison to the cop cars? Everything is super blurry and it's just, what's weird to me is all the power is out, no internet, and then the people who left them all said that they had to show their phones to law enforcement that the phones weren't working. They had to show them their photos before they could leave.

Starting point is 00:39:32 So what's weird to me is regardless of what happened, you had tons of cop cars. They had black helicopters. Honestly, it was the attention it got from the authorities that made you be like, why all these cops? But you know, they must have like, but no film sent every cop station in the area there all at once. Yeah, but there's no film. Like you would think that something happening like this, everybody's got a cell phone. Well, you don't think you would see something.

Starting point is 00:39:59 So you don't think that, okay, so easily if a bunch of teenagers were throwing fireworks and lighten off like that could be, the people could have thought it was gunshots, right? Sure. And you don't think that if people thought there was an active shooters in a mall that it wouldn't attract every cop car within... That's the story. That's the story.

Starting point is 00:40:18 That's the story. I just don't know why there's not a single, there's no film, nothing. Nobody has, everybody in there has a cell phone. Almost everything that happens, that's big, you see video. So far there's not even film of like kids doing firewood. Nothing. That's not there. Nothing at all.

Starting point is 00:40:35 And like I said, all the power and the internet and the airport and helicopters, not where to shift. So you get all the conspiracy theorist people, like this is like the feeds right into their, like oh my God. I had this date written down already. I knew this was gonna happen, you guys, finally you're seeing it.

Starting point is 00:40:53 Like we're opening them with the portal from hell. It's right here, finally. It's just, I'm just like, oh great. Election year. I didn't want this to be true. Yeah, October Surprise, aliens are here. Oh my God. We can't elect the president. Yeah, I don't know. I could

Starting point is 00:41:07 could very I honestly, I'm still in like the camp of like that. There could be ways of, you know, projecting images of doing things with like drones and all that to mess with your, you know, the public. So that's that's all on the table still. I thought the member of the story of the girl that in the airplane, I thought that evolved recently didn't I hear something? Oh, one is like, uh, what did she say, Justin? Oh, so this is not real or what was she saying? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but that also came out about her. She's telling you.

Starting point is 00:41:36 No, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, fuck her right there. No, no. It's actually good. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, no, people use digital, like, to try to break down her face and said it wasn't her. They're like, that's not magic. Yeah, yeah, we talked about that. I'm talking about like recent. That was a long way.

Starting point is 00:41:51 Oh, really? Yeah, you were. Yeah, there was something that I just saw. Again, I don't get sucked in as easily as you guys do with this stuff so I saw it come across. She's gonna stay asleep out of my mind. Yeah, I'm gonna live in a little wake up. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:03 Cause your head's not saying. It's happening. You know what I'm saying? There's a war. It's not the outfit. We're a spiritual battle, you guys. I'm ready. I'm armed. Do you, what's more likely?

Starting point is 00:42:12 Do you guys, what camp are you in? That there's aliens from another planet or it's interdimensional demons. Interdimensional demons. Whoa. Whoa. Easy. Is that easy?

Starting point is 00:42:24 Easy answer. Yeah, I don't know if I believe in either one yet. I'm not. He's the answer. Yeah. The answer. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if I believe in either one yet. I'm not sure I'm on board. I know people are going to freak out. Like, what? We already have all this stuff. Which one would you rather have? I think it's more like.

Starting point is 00:42:35 Would you be more like if it was an alien? Would you be more afraid? Or if it was an interdimensional demon? Interdimensional to be demon sounds fucking really scary, bro. Really? Yeah, because I think way more scared aliens really yeah, dude way more Really if there's a demon you know for sure like oh god god's cool. He's got my back if you're a demon and we're good alien alien Do whatever you want to see though? You let you get but an alien you might have a righteous. We're an alien There's another species on another planet. We're an alien to them. So what they're as likely got here.

Starting point is 00:43:10 So they're smarter. Yes. So they evolved that. Yeah. Yeah. I might handle pro a multi-dimensional demon. But I feel like I can pray that away. You know what I mean? You feel like you can play that boy. I feel like with an alien, what are you doing? I feel like the crosser said, oh, yeah. Stay back. This works. Listen, if there's aliens, they can get to us.

Starting point is 00:43:33 They're smart enough already that I'm assuming to let the story go. I know where we're at with weapons. No, you're mind. That means their weaponry has to be to our level or beyond. And they have chosen not to destroy us. So to me, they would more likely be curious or like us than now.

Starting point is 00:43:51 It's an interdimensional demon. Sounds like it's out to fucking kill me. Or if it's a demon, it's a job is to bring me to Satan that just does sound better than an alien. Am I alone in this? No, you're not alone. Okay, I'm making a bit of logical sense. I feel like if you're Interdimensional as well that you can just appear out of nowhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's scary. But I'm just saying if I know for sure

Starting point is 00:44:13 There's a demon like I'm cool. I'm like, oh, you ain't get you can't stop you can show up in my closet. I got the Strong guy. I'm alien. I mean, I guess I guess I guess I guess Interdimensional demon would also Probably make you feel very confident that there's a god Yeah, I was gonna say it's firm your belief so in a firm year of beliefs We're having an alien from another outer space. We'd still probably question gods people still quite so so maybe that part of it Like well, it's that demon might kill me, but at least I know where I'm going Exactly, so I get where you're coming from, but that's still a-

Starting point is 00:44:45 Every since I was a kid, that was what I always said. When I was a kid, people would watch scary stuff and my cousins would be like, oh my God, the spirits and demons would be like, that wouldn't scare me. Big footer aliens would scare the shit out of me. I'm pretty convinced of the same thing. Huh? Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:02 So I think that's what they saw. Interdimensional. So there was one guy that said that it was like they kept appearing in the appearance and they look like shadows and you couldn't like you couldn't like people were shooting at them and the bullets were going through. Yeah. I think I think what's a more likely scenario with all. I can't speak for these these, you know, the Miami thing, but as far as like what's came out with the government and that there's these UFOs and all that, I think it's more likely ourselves that we have stuff that we have top secret and it gets leaked or the wrong people see drones.

Starting point is 00:45:36 I think it's more like more other governments. I think that there's more that our government and including other governments for other countries are all so undercover and black ops. And what makes me think that is like, what, how long was it? The, what was it? The black bird or whatever? The stealth bomber. Yeah, no, it wasn't the stealth bomb. The black bird. It was a black bird. SR. I saw, I mean, we had that for a chart of every one of those advancements. And it is like, there's a whole like progression of technology that you see He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part.

Starting point is 00:46:06 He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part.

Starting point is 00:46:14 He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part.

Starting point is 00:46:22 He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. He had that part. that for it, but then we find out about the 90s. So there was one recently, I think it was on the drinking bros podcast, but they were talking about this plane that was so advanced and it literally defied all radar, all satellites, like everything, like it was completely invisible, like in terms of like anybody being able to tell

Starting point is 00:46:41 what the nonsense is. I think the government allows these people to come forward with these stories and things like that because in it. Oh God, 1962. Pro. Yes. Yeah, I mean, so I just withhold the whole, yeah.

Starting point is 00:46:56 I've learned knowledge from the public. Yeah, when did we learn about the 90s, right? It's like 30 years later. Oh, dude. Okay, look who we got. So where do you, I mean, so, so if that's true, but getting it from international, by the way, that's, I agree.

Starting point is 00:47:09 Don't, I mean, that's where they're getting all information from. No, you guys. And okay, so based on that, Sal, and then you take, if you were to, I would love that there's probably some mathematician that could do this. If you factor in Moore's law to that,

Starting point is 00:47:22 where we were with technology then, that was 30 years of being, we basically kept under wraps, where we at today, we should be exponentially further. So based off of that, to me, it's more likely we've got the ability to do a lot of shit that a lot of people don't know about. And the way we keep everybody guessing or thinking it's aliens is by allowing some misinformation to get leaked like this Do you think that we've already hit Singularity like a GI we could I wouldn't be so why would they announce it to the public?

Starting point is 00:47:56 They wouldn't they wouldn't announce a tanny buddy They would just let it work in a clandestine way right right like our leaders are just Whatever they're just hanging whatever. They're just hanging out. They're not running shit. I don't think for a second elected officials are running anything and know all the stuff. No way. Yeah, I don't think so. This is unelected. These are. They're not a joke. I think they're falling. Everybody's falling out of the name. These are bureaucracies that were and they were built. They were built during the built during the Cold War. People need to understand, like the Cold War,

Starting point is 00:48:27 there's a big threat the world was gonna end. It was a real threat. So it was like, hey, let's fund these agencies, let's build them and let's make them operate outside of the realm of the public, outside of the realm of elected officials. They are, their job is to keep us out of... They've had no accountability.

Starting point is 00:48:45 And when they do, oh, whoops, we've made like six trillion dollars just like that. Whoops. That's the other thing. When like trillions of dollars go disappearing from the pinnacle, I mean, that's not like losing a couple of months.

Starting point is 00:48:57 Who's gonna go get it? Like, who's gonna keep funding that? Yeah. You know, like, it's just absurdity to me. But you know the question, you might. Did you find a picture of what one trillion dollars would look like in a hundred dollar bills like I think somebody sent that oh really I thought that it's like it so much money. You can't just you can't just lose Whole city and then you question is how do they get these election officials to do what they want?

Starting point is 00:49:22 Epstein island. That's what happens. You got FC Nyland. We're fed up. That's right now. Okay, I'm aligned with that too. Like that to me sounds, did you know just say? Which is why too. So, I mean,

Starting point is 00:49:34 I can't wrap my brain around. I said this the off-air the other day, and you guys went and said, what, how many times did Clinton go to the law? 30 something. I haven't been anywhere. I haven't been anywhere. 30 something time. Right, yeah. Like even LA, I haven't been anywhere. I haven't been anywhere. 30 something time.

Starting point is 00:49:45 Right. Yeah. Even LA. I haven't been in any of your houses. 38. I haven't been anywhere through some time. So the fact that this president and these people flew there, flew there that many times is fucking weird.

Starting point is 00:49:58 Bananas. Weird. Yeah. Did you know that Jill Sain Maxwell, right? The girl that now she's in jail or that, you know, was with Jeff Epstein. Did you know who Jill Sain Maxwell, right? The girl that now she's in jail or that, you know, was with Jeff Epstein. Did you know who her dad was? Yeah, he was, he worked for the Besan.

Starting point is 00:50:10 He was Doug. Look up Jill Sain Maxwell's father. Wait, wait, that's a, where's the trillion? There's a trillion dollars right there. Oh, it's like a city block. It's so much. Bro, it's stacked to be as high as like 20 trillion. God, go back to that. That's put that in perspective. There's people that have that

Starting point is 00:50:33 much wealth. That's like, what? Okay. What are they spending that money on? You just say they miss you out six trillion dollars. How do you spend $6 trillion? Yeah. You build some badass crazy shit, dude. Crazy. What's the most expensive fire? Nobody thinks about that stuff and it drives me crazy. I think it's called a hundred million. Yeah, yeah, it's a hundred million, sir.

Starting point is 00:50:56 So yeah, so I imagine if the most expensive fire jet is that, imagine the one that can travel in time and shit. To a fucking Two of them. Go fuck any spits of that. So yeah, Jolaine Maxwell's father was a media proprietor spy and publisher. He was a... Oh, did you see the thing about him? He was Mossad agent.

Starting point is 00:51:18 Didn't I see you guys the sisters and how Jolaine's sister and her and how they're all tied? Oh man, I sent this to you guys a while back. That whole thing is so crazy. It's yeah. It's so cr- you know what the craziest part is though? Of all of this? The craziest part is what's his name was going? Who's the physicist in the real share? He went for the island a bunch of times. Oh my God. The internet has been so crazy with him. And the memes, like I die. Every day I wake up, that's the one day I look forward to.

Starting point is 00:51:49 It's like the memes about Stephen Hawking. There's one, I don't know what movie it's from, but it's like Stephen Hawking arriving at FCI. And it's a guy in a wheelchair like crashing through a window. Yeah, like. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man.

Starting point is 00:52:02 What's he gonna do there? The internet's one on that. Oh, wow. Yeah.. What's he gonna do there? The internet's one on that one this year. Oh, wow. Yeah, I wouldn't adjust that. No, that was, that was a shaker. What's even scarier is the, those are the people they're letting us know about. Like how crazy is that?

Starting point is 00:52:17 I know. Like if that's who you get to know, it's like, whoa, what does that mean? We don't get to know. Like that's, I don't know. Some people were actually already taken off. They said, we can't release this. Why?

Starting point is 00:52:28 Who could it be that we can't know? Yeah, there's presidents, X presidents on there. Like, I don't know. Weird. I saw Oprah was on that list too, huh? Oprah? Yeah, she's on the list. You know, a bum me out was Charles Barkley was on there.

Starting point is 00:52:42 Oh, it was Barkley on there too. Yeah, a bum me out. Yeah. So Anthony Keetis too? Yeah, that bummed me out. Yeah. So Anthony Keetis too, was like, oh, why? I mean, you have to believe, I'll probably start with think, because put yourself in Barclays or someone's at that level. And everybody who's famous goes there,

Starting point is 00:52:57 like you probably a lot of people did go there that didn't know. And maybe that's what they found out. They thought it was like the playboy mansion or something. Sure. And then, you know, the theory that's what they found out. I was like the playboy mansion or something. Sure. And then they, you know, the theory that Hugh Hefner was the same way, that Hugh Hefner, oh, I'm sure. He used the playboy mansion or it was used as a way to,

Starting point is 00:53:13 well, there was, you know, there was like a tunnel and like a way to, yeah, escape. And like they, they, they kind of like figure that that might have been a trafficking tunnel. Well, even if, even if neither playboy mansion or that was not created with that intent, it just organically happens to be there. Yeah. You allow crazy shit to happen, lots of married, important people are coming there.

Starting point is 00:53:35 Yeah. And so, you just, you've got the ultimate, you have the ultimate blackmail weapon, even if you didn't even intend for it to do this. I mean, this has sort of been the M.O. since the dawn of time and in terms of power, right? Like, we see as a game of thrones where it's like, you know, the brothels and all this, like, you get all the information and dirt

Starting point is 00:53:55 and you hold that blackmail against powerful people. It's like, why would that not be a recipe, you know, like going forward with like world leaders? It's very clear. It's, it seems very obvious that that island was used for blackmail. Yeah. It seems very, very obvious. Did you see cat Williams kind of coming out this year? Like he was calling out Kevin Hart and saying he was like a plant, like an industry plant. Really? He said he got off. He said he got offered all kinds of money to be a part of like all their illuminati bullshit.

Starting point is 00:54:25 What? Yeah, you got to watch it. It's like one of the craziest interviews. It was with Shannon Sharp and Cat Williams. It just happened. Just how scary would that be, right? You're a hardworking artist. You start to get some success.

Starting point is 00:54:39 You're like taking off. Then you get taken into a room or a party and they reveal to you like, hey, here's a deal. You gotta do this, otherwise we'll destroy you. Like, I would be like, damn it. I wish I didn't know this, you know what I mean? God, yeah, what am I gonna do? Do you think it's like that?

Starting point is 00:54:55 I think it's more, I think it's less we're gonna destroy you and it's more, I think people are gaining access. Yeah, I think it's more, people are more in number. Yeah, but it's implied, right? By greed and fame, you don't even need to threaten. Yeah, but it's implied. You know what I mean? It's implied like if I don't go along, what's going to happen? See, I don't say I don't think that because then I think that it would be this it would people that would wouldn't didn't accept it

Starting point is 00:55:17 would would speak out more. I think it's more like, Hey, you have this opportunity. And then and let me present to you what you can do if you come this way. And if you don't, you don't. And then they don't care that you don't. They're just looking for more people to join their side. You know what I mean? It would be implied like, oh great, now I'm not going to get a movie. Yeah. I'm not going to get in your record label.

Starting point is 00:55:35 You know. I don't. Hey, I wanted to ask you, you said you got off the phone with, um, organifi and they were talking about Shilogy. Big Drew. Yeah. Yeah. They've been, so we were talking about Shilogy big Drew. Yeah, yeah, they've been so we were talking about who would crush I knew yeah, we were supposed to do like a like a photo shoot with the product So about one it gets here. It's gone here as soon as we get it

Starting point is 00:55:54 And so I say could you send me more boxes? He's like we're sold out over here right now It's like it's it's moved Wow almost faster than any product they've ever done before Wow Well, I told you guys when I saw it, and I saw that it was legit, I had brought, oh God, it must have been three, four years ago, I brought it legit. Thanks, Justin. I brought it up years ago that,

Starting point is 00:56:14 she'll legit, it's one of those compounds used in like, er, er, er, retic medicine or whatever, that has a lot of data supporting. There's not a lot of those that are out there. There's a lot of them with a lot of anecdotes, but this has, look it up. If you guys, whoever's watching listening to this doesn't believe me, look up Shilijit studies

Starting point is 00:56:33 and what you'll find is increased testosterone, increased recovery, improved fertility, hormone balancing, anti-inflammatory effects, all proven by studies. And so I always thought, why isn't this like a blockbuster? And really it was just, he had to make it a tasty gummy. It was crazy. It was like, it's kind of like when we saw the studies

Starting point is 00:56:53 on red light therapy, it was like hard to like, really all these things. It was like, like it covered so many benefits. I mean, I think that's what it is. It's got so many positive things. It's a, what would you quote unquote, a health supplement, right, that you've fallen that category,

Starting point is 00:57:07 and it tastes good in a gummy. Yeah. It's a, it's easy. You feel it, it's easy. It's smart. You take it for a few days or a week, you start to feel like, oh, okay. Now, okay, along those lines,

Starting point is 00:57:16 is it like, I forget what else you've explained to me before that has a compounding effect, the more consistent you are taking it? So it does. It's not, it's not a stimulant. Like you don't take it, but like, whoa, I feel it. But after a few days or a week, then you start to just feel better.

Starting point is 00:57:30 Kind of like a supplement like Ashwaganda, where you start to notice it after you take it somewhat consistently. Now that's considered an adaptogen. Is this considered? I would put it in the category, actually, adaptogen. I don't know if you could classify it as one,

Starting point is 00:57:44 but I would say it feels like one in terms of its effects. Anyway, I'm gonna do a little confession here because I brought it up on air and because I wanna stay as authentic as possible and I wanna not continue down this path or whatever. I told everybody I was gonna try and go off cannabis and create them and I had a failure this weekend. Yeah, so. I mean, think of stepping back. It depends on how you look at it. It's not necessarily and create them and I had a failure this weekend. Oh, yeah, so.

Starting point is 00:58:05 I mean, it depends on how you look at it. It's not necessarily a failure. It was a failure. It was a failure. Yeah, it was a failure. Did you, I mean, was it smoking? Was it weed? No, it was a vape.

Starting point is 00:58:16 So, yeah, so Jessica and the kids went out of town. I was alone, which I don't like to be anyway. I hate being alone, which is a whole other story. And I made sure there was none in the house, right? So none in the house, make sure there's none in the house. And, uh, fuck man, I went through the closet and I found the old volcano and there was some left in there and I had some.

Starting point is 00:58:39 And that by that point, once you go that point, then you're like, well, I might as well keep going. Yeah. And I, so then I took all the other drugs. So then I ordered none of them. So then I ordered some more. It's, you know, it's a shitty feeling, man. I know with this, like, I get this whole,

Starting point is 00:58:53 it's all psychological, right? But it's such a weird, it is psychological dude. I'm really, so I was, I was, I'm glad you bought that. It's really, it's really weird to admit too, because, you know, it's like, why can't I just, yeah, but okay, so, why can't I just... Yeah, but okay, so. So I mean, I go back and forth on like, breaks that I would say I take,

Starting point is 00:59:11 because I had stopped smoking what, I don't know how many months ago it was when I shared that on the podcast, since then I've smoked. But I don't, I guess, I don't beat myself up. Like I failed. Like yeah, I had the intention of like, oh, I want to stop and I don't want to and let's see if I don't have to at all

Starting point is 00:59:28 or whatever. And that was kind of my attitude was like, you know, I really don't want to do this. I shared the story about Max and so that really hit home for me that I'm like, I don't want my son to have that smell around the house. I don't want to, and I want to have the marijuana conversation when he's a teenager, not when he's fucking eight,

Starting point is 00:59:44 you know what I'm saying? So that was what really motivated me to go that direction. Now since then, I've had a handful of times for sure that I have and there's some things that I just I really like. I still love about it, you know, and I admit that and I know that and so where I'm at now, I think I have a better balance around where I was. I think I think I was out of balance. That was enough for me to kind of wake me up and say, hey, I'm gonna stop doing this. I've now done that, but I don't have this, like I failed on myself.

Starting point is 01:00:12 Do you beat yourself up? Like, yeah, I do. I know that's a terrible strategy because that just leads to more rebellion. Just like we teach people with that one. 100%. So I know what's happening. It's hard to stop

Starting point is 01:00:26 That process but I say I failed because I haven't proven to myself yet that I can just have nothing For long enough So it wasn't what was it a week or two two weeks maybe and so it's like okay like what the hell? I'll make it the two weeks, bro. Huh. Yeah, yeah So it's like what the hell? You know what you know what two weeks, bro. Huh? Yeah. So it's like, what the hell? What is going on? You know what? You know what was, what I think was really tough for me was, I remember the like the first two or three times

Starting point is 01:00:50 that I had after I had not for, because I went like two months. I think it was pretty consistent with nothing. And I, when I reintroduced it, I had some of the best nights of sleep I had had in months. And that was like the really selling. Oh God, a freaking, you know, I don't want to need it, which I've proven to myself, I can do that.

Starting point is 01:01:09 But then it was like, boy, has it a useful tool for me? It's, especially I recognize when we got a lot of stuff going on. I got a lot of stuff going on on my plate. And I'm like, super here coming down at night for me. Sometimes it's really tough. It was the perfect storm for me. I was home without anybody. I felt, I was coming down at night for me sometimes is really it was the perfect storm for me. I was home

Starting point is 01:01:25 without anybody I felt I was coming down with something so I'd like a mild that was mildly ill which makes me depressed anyway. I don't like to be alone anyway. So I'm like sitting there in my own you know whatever and I'm not doing something else to help myself. I'm just sitting there trying to watch TV or whatever and that's just a bad just a bad combination. I mean I don't know if you're sharing to receive any advice around it but mine would just be literally I think you have to have empathy for yourself in the situation. I think that I think when you put it in the category of it's bad, wrong. I failed. Like again, it creates that same relationship. Yeah, I don't have that.

Starting point is 01:02:06 Yeah, so it's 100% when I'm trying to work on it. Yeah, and I think it's just, hey, and I still have that now where I'm like, again, I'm like, hey, I still stand by what I said originally with pulling off of it is like, I don't, so I'm very cautious now about like, oh, if I go outside and so on. I get the self-same that people go through when they're trying to fix their diet.

Starting point is 01:02:30 Totally. Get that. Same thing. And it's self-defeating. It's very hard to reverse. So I get that. That's what I'm working on right now. I was like, okay, how do I get myself out of that loop?

Starting point is 01:02:42 Where if I take a step back, it's not, like, you know, I'm gonna beat myself up for it for a week. You know what I'm saying? So. A self-awareness that you have around it. I was like hug me or something. Yeah. I'm like, you know, no fuck down.

Starting point is 01:02:58 Face time. Totally joking. Oh, I was gonna break the tape. What was I talking about? There was something, yeah. Did you guys, I don't know if we shared this on air, there was like that viral, a community that, or the clip that comedian did about,

Starting point is 01:03:10 he went on a golf trip with his buddy who just had a divorce or broke up with his girlfriend with that and the wife is like, hey, how's John? You know what I'm saying? How should I know? I don't know. Did you, did you golf with him 18 holes?

Starting point is 01:03:24 Yeah. You didn't ask what he was doing? He didn't come. Did you did you golf with him 18 holes? Yeah, you didn't ask why he's doing didn't come up Yeah, well didn't they get a divorce? Yeah, well, how's he doing? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's guys Yeah, we just call yeah, he's got a new driver Yeah, speaking Ryan reggae speaking of driving our trainer Uh, courses coming up. It's coming up in a couple days. It's coming, it's here.

Starting point is 01:03:48 Monday. Sign up for it, it's mindpumptrainer.com. And our goal is for you to leave with information that you can use immediately to improve the success of your clients and your business. These are things that we found to be big rocks. That really make a big difference with the trainers that we've worked with.

Starting point is 01:04:06 And there's some surprises coming up. And what's a link again, my pump trainer.com. My pump trainer.com. And then the shout out was the guys name's John Dorsey. So shout out to John Dorsey. His Instagram handle is goob underscore you to check him out. Whoa. Hey look, if you want an on the go snack that's natural, not heavily processed, that's

Starting point is 01:04:27 high in protein, low in carbs, check out Paleo Valley's meat sticks. These are grass fed meat sticks. They're not dry, they're delicious. And it's a great way to supplement your diet with a snack you could take anywhere. Go check them out. Go to paleovali.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump 15 and get yourself 15% off. All right, back to the show.

Starting point is 01:04:48 Our first caller is Jessica from Oregon. Hi, Jessica. How can we help you? Hey, good morning. How is everyone? Good. Good. I'll start with my question and give you a little background. My question is does a Strength training practice or robust, eventually lead to a reduction in flexibility, abs in any kind of mobility training, yoga, stretching, things like that? For background, I'm 51, I've been strength training for a year. My routine is three to four days a week, full body. I've always been naturally very flexible.

Starting point is 01:05:20 I would say before this year, I would do yoga yoga maybe twice a month or something like that, but I've done nothing this past year, only straight trained. I've noticed recently I just feel less flexible. I feel tighter and it kind of got me wondering if it's just a natural byproduct of strength training. I think about two, like the guys I know who are all really built, they're really inflexible. And so I don't just kind of got me thinking about that. I particularly feel tightness in my posterior chain,

Starting point is 01:05:47 my lower back. I think the deadlift is probably my least confident lift. I do also have a compression fracture in my lower spine so that I'm just kind of mindful of working around that as well. I mean, my goal is aging well. I want to be strong. I want to be flexible. And I'm curious about

Starting point is 01:06:06 the need for active muscle stretching to have that goal. And as I continue strength training, I've had to optimize for both. What a question. What a great question. This is a complicated question. And there's, there's a common misunderstanding around strength training and that it makes people tighter. It does not do that, but let's talk about tightness first. Let's examine what's happening. Why does the body get tight in the first place? So the central nervous system controls your muscles. It'll tell your muscles to contract or relax.

Starting point is 01:06:38 It also controls the extensibility of a muscle. How far or long it allows the muscle to get. Okay. What makes a body part or muscle area tight of a muscle, how far or long it allows the muscle to get. What makes a body part or muscle area tight is your body sensing instability, or sensing potential danger or weakness. Right, and it's weakness now. Now, here's where it gets complicated.

Starting point is 01:06:59 Weakness can mean that you're strong in one direction and it's disproportionate to another direction, therefore causing instability. To give you an easy example, if I had, let's say that I'm gonna make up a ratio, okay? Let's just say there's a ratio of two to 2.5 in terms of strength between the quadriceps and the hamstrings, okay?

Starting point is 01:07:19 That's not the number of, let's just make that up and say that that's the ideal ratio where the body feels stable. It's way more complex than that, but we'll just play with that number right there And then let's say you work out your legs a lot and your quads and hamstrings get stronger Except your quads get stronger a lot faster than your hamstrings because of the way that you train Maybe the exercises you focus on the range of motion whatever So now that ratio is more like a three to two or 3 to 1. Even though both of them got stronger,

Starting point is 01:07:46 the ratio of strength now moves into a range where your body feels unstable. And you see this with sprinters, for example. Hamstring pulls are common in sprinters. Hamstrings on sprinters are way stronger than the average person. But what happens is they get this power dynamic where there's instability because the power

Starting point is 01:08:06 they can generate with one area doesn't necessarily support far exceeds it. If far exceeds the stability that is present, so how can we get tighter with strength training? Well, if you've done a lot of the same exercises over and over again, you're not training in different ranges of motion or different planes of movement, you're getting really strong in particular ways, but the stability that's there to support it and the other ranges of motion and the other planes of movement aren't necessarily keeping up.

Starting point is 01:08:34 And so what happens is your body starts to limit your range of motion and your movement to keep you in what it considers to be safe. So a body builder who builds lots of muscle with the same, you know, 20 exercises all the time goes to throw a baseball and his stabilizer muscles in his rotator cuff, right? His infraspinate, his supraspinate, his whatever.

Starting point is 01:08:56 They can't support the throw, it'll limit his speed or he'll overcome it, throw hard and tear his rotator cuff or twist in the back seat to get something and hurt his low back. He's like, what the heck? That doesn't make any sense. I thought I was so strong. So really it's about balance.

Starting point is 01:09:11 The body has to feel stable and strong and balance as a part of it. Now to be very clear, proper strength training is one of the best flexibility tools that exists, proper being the key word, because strength training gives you strength in range of emotion, whereas just static stretching gives you range of emotion, but doesn't give you strength. Like a baby, it's useful. Yeah, it's right, so like a baby who's super flexible,

Starting point is 01:09:38 no strength, very unstable, right? Put a, put, wait, on a baby, a baby's in her to self, they'll do that. So, so that's what's happening, so it's more complex. So I would look at your workout, identify where the tightness is, and what's probably happening is you have either lateral stability issues or rotational weakness or you know, your range of motion has been the same, and you're just continuing to add weight without maybe going lateral rotation of the most common. That's the most common.

Starting point is 01:10:05 Yeah, lateral rotation and then like short and range of motion on things like squats. Yeah, I'd say those are probably the three most. The big culprit. Yeah, most common with clients is we neglect the lateral movement, we neglect rotational movements or we neglect full range of motion in movements like the squat, the overhead press,

Starting point is 01:10:22 and things like that tend to cause the same issue. Totally. So to give you like another squat, the overhead press and things like that tend to cause the same issue. Totally. So to give you like another example, years ago I trained a high level baseball player in high school was actually going to get, he was going to go to a D1 college. He threw incredible speed. He'd never done any other sport than baseball. Never did a strength training. He just played baseball as a whole life.

Starting point is 01:10:43 His stepfather hired me to train him. The imbalance between his right and left side were incredible. His body started to develop in that direction. If you do the same exercise all the time with strength training, your body's been developing that way, and it's gonna start to limit your movement as a result. So I can guess that your workout,

Starting point is 01:11:02 you're probably following the big, basic lifts, which are great for building muscle, but you're probably now got to the point where you're pretty strong. In fact, I'm looking at your numbers here. You are really strong. You're deadlifting 190 pounds, 170 pound, barbell squat, you're bench pressing 105 pounds. Any years worth of training, female, I mean, you're doing, you're only way 143 pounds. That doesn't make sense. You're really strong, but you're probably now starting to create some instability because

Starting point is 01:11:27 the strength is probably in limited movements. What do you say? Performance or symmetry or both? I mean, I would love to see you go through map symmetry and mass performance. I think they're both going to benefit. Totally. What does your workout look like, Jessica? Is it all of this ringing the bell?

Starting point is 01:11:42 What am I saying? Is this resonating? Yeah, it's completely, I mean, I basically did the same workout. I mean, again, three, four days a week for the first 10 months. I'm on anabolic. I'm doing the advanced calendar right now. And I really kind of felt like I needed a change. This was a couple of months ago. I just felt like I was doing the same thing.

Starting point is 01:12:01 And I recognize that your, your, your are similar, but they were different enough. And of course those phases that you move through are really helpful. I wasn't doing any kind of really rep and weight variation like you have. I'm in phase three of anabolic, the advanced calendar right now. And I was just gonna do it again,

Starting point is 01:12:21 but it really does feel very true that I've basically done the same kind of. Yeah. Yeah. That's all you need. Accessifies is for a year. Yeah. I would go Maps, Symmetry or Maps performance next and then follow those two.

Starting point is 01:12:34 Those two would be ideal for you. So whichever one, which one you want, I'll give you one of those, which one do you want? Performance performance. I don't know enough about the differences. I trust you guys. I've got three, four days in the gym, easy an hour. And you've only been strength training for a year? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:12:50 Well, let's go performance. We'll go performance, follow that up with symmetry. Here's the problem with maps and a ball. It's this is going to sound like a commercial. It's so effective at building strength and muscle and boosting metabolism that people cycle it over and over. It's the program that people tend to stick to. They get addicted to it, but it's so focused on one plane.

Starting point is 01:13:14 It's like deadlift, squat, bench, overhead press, row, and it's great for building muscle and strength. But if you get really strong and you just stick to those exercises, your lateral stability I can guarantee you is lacking, your rotational stability is lacking, you've got some stability issues now because you've built so much strength in this limited scope. So it's definitely time to move forward.

Starting point is 01:13:37 This is why we recommend people go maps and a ball, maps performance, we always recommend people follow up and a ball with performance because of what you're talking about. But great awareness. I think you've done incredible. The gains you've made in a year and strength and the fact that you have the awareness

Starting point is 01:13:53 of you're starting to pick up and notice these things, but that's exactly why we wrote performance. That was the follow up program for these exact reasons. Our philosophy or our original core programs were Maths and Obolic, Maths Performance, and the Maths Est were maps andabolic, math performance, and then maps aesthetic. And in the ideal world, most all general population, if you're just looking for overall strength, mobility, health, longevity, that's the kind of order that almost everybody should really follow.

Starting point is 01:14:18 Yes, we have other things to individualize for people and be more specific, but for the general population that's looking for overall like aesthetics as far as body fat reduction, muscle gain, strength, mobility, like that's the pursuit right there. And I want to be clear, Jessica, you're not going to compromise fat loss and muscle gain by focusing now on, it's not, in fact, you're compromising it now because you're going to start to get really limited by what you're talking about. In fact, if you continue to stick to MAP's etabolic, it'll start to get to the point where

Starting point is 01:14:49 you're going to start to hit some walls and plateaus because your stability is not going to allow you, your instability, I should say, is not going to allow you to continue to progress. So very common issue. And this is why you see big, like the big, you know, bros in the gym and they look so tight. That's exactly what's happening with them. Is they look at a program like mass performance, they're really strong in one direction.

Starting point is 01:15:08 Yeah, like I'm not gonna do all, you know, mobility's like who cares or whatever. By the way, if you did a bunch of static stretching to offset this, you would be doing the wrong thing. So I'm glad you caught, you got here on it. Yeah, cause the static stretching would temporarily alleviate some of the issues, but it wouldn't, it wouldn't

Starting point is 01:15:25 fix the root cause. Yeah. Okay. That's super helpful. I mean, to have objection to sort of off day yoga once or twice a week. I mean, no, that's really about the stretching piece. That's just more. No, no, that would compliment that.

Starting point is 01:15:37 What it was. The mistake that the mistake that I think cells are looting to is that what people do is they, they, they, they, they get freaked out. They stop the weight training and then they go over to just doing yoga. And that would be a big mistake. But to add yoga into like mass performance, what a great compliment. In fact, what you're going to find, I mean, I'm, I'm looking forward to you running performance, especially since you like yoga, like you'll see what our mobility days are. It's like active yoga. So you're moving through these kind of yoga like poses and

Starting point is 01:16:06 those are your every other day. So you have strength training days like anabolic has laid out foundational days and then every other day are what we call mobility days, which you're going to find are similar to the feeling you get when you do your yoga. Okay, I'm excited. Thanks so much. That's great. I really appreciate that. Awesome. I appreciate your question. Yeah, circle back with us. I'd love to hear how it goes after you go through the program. Okay, thanks so much. I'll let you that. I appreciate your question. Yes, circle back with us. I'd love to hear how it goes after you go through the program. Okay, thanks so much. I'll let you know.

Starting point is 01:16:28 I wanted to do a quick shout out to Rob Reed. He's one of your coaches and consultant. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's in Kentucky. I think I'd sent a question in about the difference in a couple of other programs. And he came back with it. I did offering a 30 minute assessment. And he was great.

Starting point is 01:16:40 I kind of was going high on my own on a couple of things. And he's straightening me out and just want to do a shadow for him. Yeah, Rob, great job. All right, great job. Rob, thank you, Jess. All right, thanks a lot. Take care. You got it.

Starting point is 01:16:51 I appreciate that question because it allows us to go in and break down exactly what's happening because that stupid myth continues to exist and it's reinforced by people who are podcasts. Well, the reason why all the reason why it's reinforced is because there is some truth in it. That's right, that's what I mean. It's like, oh yeah. I do feel tighter, you know?

Starting point is 01:17:08 Well, yeah, you get really strong in that one direction. You just have to make sure you incorporate all these other moves. So that way too, you can counterbalance that. I mean, great awareness on her part to do this, but then also a reminder to the audience that's, you know, maybe came on board in just the last six months or a year and haven't heard the evolution of the maps programs, but when we wrote them, we wrote them with that intent. It's like,

Starting point is 01:17:29 I don't care what your pursuit is. Most all people in the ideal world, if you were to hire us as trainers, we would run you through that order. One way or another or some way or another, we would run you through that type of a protocol, because eventually this is what will happen to anybody, and everybody that follows maps in a ball, or all our muscle building programs that are based in the sagittal plane, you're gonna get before it becomes a problem. Right. Our next caller is Adam from California.

Starting point is 01:17:57 Adam, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey, how are you guys? Good, where you at, bro? It's happening. What is that? What was that? Where you at? I'm in the is that? What was that? Where you at?

Starting point is 01:18:13 I'm in the captain's barracks. Oh wow. I'm on duty right now. I asked for permission to do like a 15-minute Nice. Oh great. Oh man. Sorry, those are all lockers. Okay. No worries. How can we help you dude? Well, I appreciate you guys having me on been listening for been listening for quite a while now. So, like everything you guys are doing. Anyway, I'm 6'2", 225 pounds, 33 years old. I'm a firefighter, but I just promoted. So for the next two years, I'm off the engine, kind of behind a desk. So I just had to plan out my movements more,

Starting point is 01:18:38 but my workouts are really consistent. I'm at a place where I don't care so much about the scale, and I just want to sculpt my body. I want to be stronger in leaner for sure. In January, just some backstory. January 23, so about a year ago, I was 278 pounds. I just had enough. I was out of breath just time my shoes, my back hurt, my baby, libido was low.

Starting point is 01:19:04 I was always a last on our hikes with the firefighters and just wasn't a really good example for the guys that I was leading. So I got serious and I got a coach. So thank you guys because I got them from a shout out you guys did, great and from look like you Okay. So I got down to 2.23 in October for my wedding. And I'm super happy with the progress that I made. And I just want to keep going. I haven't had the coach since August, so I've kept it all off for quite a while now. But I just don't know what to do to get my body fat down and just keep increasing my strength.

Starting point is 01:19:48 The scale that I have says that my body fat is like 25%. I'm finishing up the maps tower lift, which I just did. And I made the maps attempts just because I knew I was coming on here. So my new Max's were 405 for squat, 425 for deadlift, 195 for overhead stress, strict, and 300 for bench. Wow, very nice. Awesome. Yeah, and I feel like I did some of it wrong, but just because I was in a deficit, a maintenance for a little bit of it, but then a deficit for most of that.

Starting point is 01:20:26 So about 400, 450 calorie deficit, just because I came back from my honeymoon and I felt like my weight was a little up. So I was like, I'll breathe down a little bit, probably wasn't a great idea for powerlifts. But I do hit at least 10,000 steps a day. My calories are 2450, proteins, 240, carbs carbs 168, fat 91. I eat whole foods except for I've madly explained things again guys and the bear bell protein bars. I'm just looking for guidance on what you guys think I should do next just to improve my physique and I'm just really excited for it.

Starting point is 01:21:04 My second part of the question before you go is, 2,900 maintenance calories is kind of where a man it just seems low at. I just want to know what you guys thought. Yeah, I would judging by what you've done before, we know we know brain in the type of like programming. I know he does. He's got solid programming similar to like our anabolic type of philosophy. It sounds like you would do really well in a slight calorie surplus

Starting point is 01:21:26 in a different type of a program. Like let's say performance or strong or like a program that is less traditional lifting and go that direction with a calorie surplus I think would serve you really well right now. Yeah, are you, like, because power lift is a great program. Are you really stuck on like benched, head lift and like how how different can we take you? Yeah, I've do it all

Starting point is 01:21:52 time. Yeah, I'm down for I'm honestly I'm down for whatever. I just been doing that. I kind of stayed with that. That was like Braden's kind of program going with that. So, I'm down for to do whatever. Adam, I'm gonna send you maps, old time strength, especially for the work that you do. I know you work behind the desk, but you'll love it. You'll probably recommend it to some of the guys you lead or people you lead on your team

Starting point is 01:22:18 because the strength gains on it are unconventional and amazing, you'll love it. And I agree with Adam, I think you should go on a reverse diet. I think you should go on a slight surplus. So if your maintenance is 29, I'd average about 3,000 a day, focus on getting stronger, slowly bring your calories up throughout the program, trying to gain too much body fat. So if you start to gain body fat, bring it back down, kind of hover a little bit. And then at the end of the program, when you're done with it, then you can go back on

Starting point is 01:22:43 a cut. But I want to see your calories a little higher. And then at the end of the program, when you're done with it, then you can go back on a cut. But I wanna see your calories a little higher before we cut you. Yeah, I would love to see you get up to like 3,500 calories without putting, that would be a good goal for this is, can I follow this program? Can I slowly increase, getting up to 3,500 calories

Starting point is 01:22:56 and not see an increase really in body fat percentage? Just build muscle. Yeah, just build in muscle or maintaining your weight while increasing those calories while following a program like that I think it's gonna really really serve you and then we can reverse it. Yeah, do a cut with a transition to another program Hey, shout out to 209 you grew up over there or what? Yeah, yeah, I know I'm from the turlock. Okay. I don't know if you guys

Starting point is 01:23:18 I'm like with the area. I went to Oakdale High School. So I had family in turlock. Yeah, yeah, so I had family over there right on went to Oakdale High School. So, and I had family in Toronto. Yeah, yeah, so I had family over there. Right on. Yep, it's one race. So, I appreciate that guys. Thank you so much. Super excited to be here.

Starting point is 01:23:31 So, well, thanks for everything you guys do. Yeah, by the way, when you do the reverse tie and you follow the program, just expect to just get stronger. You're just gonna see your strength. When you see the strength going up and you're weight not going up too much on the scale, you know you're on the right track. Awesome.

Starting point is 01:23:46 Alright, man. Thanks guys. Alright, thank you brother. That was pretty straightforward. Yeah. Damn, good job. So far, he lost a lot of weight. Oh no, he's strong as hell.

Starting point is 01:23:54 Well, I mean, that's excellent. Also, you know, shout out to Braden. I mean, I know that he's one of the reasons why we found him in light to him is younger generation promoting like the big core lifts and like this is the way to get. You know, it's so light to him, is younger generation promoting the big core lifts and this is the way to get, you know, it's so great to you, right? A guy who's 270 pounds, you think the path to losing the 50 pounds is a little cardio like racing.

Starting point is 01:24:16 Yeah, run, yeah. Instead, it changes stimulus. Yeah, get strong, lift like power lift and look how much it's served him and look at his numbers are phenomenal. Oh, so we have studies now that show this. Nothing beats strength training when it comes to foul. Yeah, once you, yeah, once you established that foundational sort

Starting point is 01:24:31 of meeting potatoes, programming, like I love when somebody gets to get into the arena of the old times. Oh, I love that, dude. Those unconventional lifts, you're going to feel so strong. And especially like, doing what he does for work. It's going to play, you know, something like that. This is one of my favorite moves to do with clients. It would be to assess someone like this and get an idea of like, okay, he's done great. He's followed this similar type of a protocol. He's in a deficit like, reverse them out and

Starting point is 01:25:00 switch up the stimulus completely. Like if you're used to training power lift, maps and a ball, that kind of traditional, you know, type of lifts, and then switching them over to something like old timey or performance or OSEA. These programs that are so different, yeah, it's going to shock the system. It's gonna be like a whole new novel stimulus, so that's gonna promote growth,

Starting point is 01:25:22 while you're also feeding the body more calories. And usually, hopefully, all that gets partitioned over to building this newfound muscle that you're stimulating different. Our next caller is Austin from Utah. Awesome. What's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey, so I've, again, thanks for having me on the show, I guess, again, one more time.

Starting point is 01:25:41 I'm grateful for all you guys do for me. You guys have helped me a lot to see that there's more goals than just aesthetic with fitness and I'm grateful for that. Thanks. For the past couple of years, I've been training a lot of unilateral. I've been absentmetry several times.

Starting point is 01:26:01 Because the last time I talked to you I was asking about a broken leg that had actually grown back stronger than my other leg. And so since then I see a lot of strength and balance is fixed there. But my question today is since we talked last time I kind of switched career paths because I just got sick of working at a desk and I'm a contractor now. I do a lot of activity each day.

Starting point is 01:26:35 And I guess I've been working out for the past four years, roughly. And my body's pretty much stayed the exact same. Like I've gained 10 pounds if anything I look a little bit battered but I've noticed some things like with map symmetry I've noticed that my imbalances have been fixed and it feels good but lately I've been feeling really burnt out of working out as many times a day as many times a week as a maps program calls for,

Starting point is 01:27:08 you know, even just the two or three times a week that I work out when I do maps and abolic. It feels like a little bit too much. And I'm wondering how I can modify these programs because I love running maps symmetry. I love mapsibolic. I'm wondering how I can modify these programs so that I can have them fit my lifestyle more so that, you know, right now I'm just focused on improving the way I feel rather than the way I look, because, you know, if I was focused on the way I look I would have quit a while ago. I just want to know how I can modify these programs because I love symmetry and power lift and I would love to run those. But it's just it feels like too much volume on any given day. So do I just cut it back to only the major lifts. Massive T. Massive T. Massive T. Massive T.

Starting point is 01:28:06 And the slight modification, so Massive T is going to represent like your power lift style as far as those are the big compound lifts that we have you do. Basically you do two compound lifts a day every day. That's basically it. And the way you can modify that to complement some of the things that you appreciate about symmetry is either one, trade out one of the compound lifts

Starting point is 01:28:28 for a unilateral movement, or on days where you feel good, and you feel like you could handle a little more volume, add an exercise in there that is a unilateral movement. So it's simple as that. I'd follow Maps 15, the advanced version, pretty much how it's laid out. The days that you feel really good and you can add more, I would add a unilateral movement that you have found has benefited you a lot into the day, or trade out the squats or deadlifts or whatever, you know,

Starting point is 01:28:58 bilateral movements in there for a unilateral movement. And I think that'll serve you. You know, if you feel like it's too much, it is. And you did change your lifestyle dramatically. You went from working at a desk to being a contractor. I'm assuming you're moving a lot more and your job is a lot more physical than it used to be. Yeah, without a doubt.

Starting point is 01:29:16 Yeah, so, and that's why you're feeling, so, you know, we tend to train to the point where this is how much we can tolerate. And then what happens are lifestyles changes and we keep our training the same. You probably were, it was probably the right amount of volume and frequency and intensity before, but now your lifestyles totally different.

Starting point is 01:29:34 You're moving way more, your blue collar. And so that's just now inappropriate. When's the last time you took some time off? From working out? Yeah. I've actually been kind of just the past four weeks, I've literally only been going in to do the repatting movements and everything.

Starting point is 01:29:55 Oh, good. I'm in trouble. That's that's exclusively what I've been doing for a month. And how's it feel? Do you feel a little bit better? Are you feel? It feels a lot better. I can do a workout every day without burning myself out

Starting point is 01:30:05 So you're seeing you're on the right track, dude Adam's advice is is is perfect But just just so you know if you want to follow other programs You can simply cut the volume way down So if it if it asks for three sets you could do one working set if there's you know three exercises You could do one of the exercises. You could always do that. If you have to pick the exercise, typically the first one is the important one for the body part.

Starting point is 01:30:31 You're on the right track. I like what you've done for the last four weeks in fact. If you go from that to Maths 15 Advanced version, I think you're going to start to see some nice results. Yeah. Okay. That's awesome. Yeah, I appreciate that.

Starting point is 01:30:43 I love running all your guys's fun programs have been Definitely excited to to try old-time strength. That's one that I'm excited to try sometimes soon Yeah, and I just I I knew that maps 15 is what you guys were gonna say But at the same time it's like I want to know how to modify these other fun programs so that I can try them all. Because I'm, you cut, just cut the volume way down. I'm gonna try to go on for the rest of my life. Yeah, Austin, you just cut the volume way down, dude. I mean, I do that all the time with our programs.

Starting point is 01:31:13 I'll do, you know, one set instead of three or two instead of three, I do that all the time. You can do it, you, so you can do this where, and this, I mean, God, this is what I kind of do myself a lot of the time is, I the maps 15 protocol the advanced version and then you can Intermittently pull from the other programs and that you know what today instead of doing this, you know, squat, I'm going to do this Turkish get up here like nothing stops you from pulling or like from an old time strength Movement if that you really like or you want to try is putting that lift inside

Starting point is 01:31:46 the protocol, which really is just you're picking two big, big lifts a day and that's all you're doing for maps, 20. So you use that philosophy and pull from the other programs that you're curious and you're interested at. There's nothing wrong with that. Okay. Cool. All right, awesome.

Starting point is 01:32:02 Yeah, it sounds good. You got it, man. All right. Okay. Have a good one, awesome. Yeah, that sounds good. You got it, man. All right. Okay. Have a good one, guys. Take it easy, brother. Take it easy, brother.

Starting point is 01:32:10 We, uh, this is just so common. I do this whole time, even. We forget. We know what the right amount of volume and training and frequency and sets and exercises for us at a particular moment, and it feels good and we're getting stronger. Then things change in our lifestyle. This is a very obvious one, right? Desk job to a zizgal job. Complete environment change. Yeah, but it could be,

Starting point is 01:32:28 it could be as simple as like just more stress, right? Or something happened or you got sick and they recovered or, you know, or accumulated stress over time, right? That it was appropriate but then you did it for so long without taking a break or doing a deal o week that then it became too much. So all of it plays a role. All of it's put in this soup, and you have to consider all of it. That's what happened. That's what happened.

Starting point is 01:32:52 That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened.

Starting point is 01:32:59 That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. is kind of demanding of you. Our next caller is Dirk from Ohio. Dirk, what's happening? How can we help you?

Starting point is 01:33:07 Guys, how you doing? Pleasure to be on. I'm a big mind pump fan and my tribe is probably annoyed at the amount of times I say, well wait the mind pump guy say to do this or that. So, awesome. How can we help you? Well, I think you guys have seen my package

Starting point is 01:33:22 after coming through a pretty devastating eye situation that only affects about one in five million people in the world. I found myself standing on the scale in June of 20 and I was at 306 pounds at about five foot nine. I always tell everybody I got into fitness after I was just fitness cheeseburger in my mouth. I kind of felt like, I kind of felt like,

Starting point is 01:33:43 hey, I went through the ringer and I'm just gonna live life a little bit. And, you know, it wasn't crazy about it, but I also think during the eye barely ate, lost tons of weight, just when you're in pain every second of the day, you don't think about eating, right? So at some point, they kind of said, okay, Dirk, you can start working out. I've always was kind of a bro lifter, you know, back chest arms. That was it. Natorious for going to the gym and doing arms for an hour on just Saturday. So the best thing that ever happened to me was I tore my meniscus in like October of

Starting point is 01:34:14 20 and a physical therapist for an of mine said, you need to start training your legs. And then listening to you guys and learning about a deadlifting and I'm like, all right, the first time in my life ever started deadlifting, working my legs. I think you've seen some of my stats. I've lost about 70 pounds. I think when I sent it to you guys, I was still at about 20% 20.4% body fat. Finally, that got that down to about 19.7. I'm 52 years old.

Starting point is 01:34:40 Two questions. I have a full distal tear of my right rotator cuff. Of course every surge and I see says fix it. I'll just tell you guys, it hasn't stopped me from doing a lot of things. I'm in the third phase of aesthetic right now. I've learned to maneuver things a little different when I lift a dumbbell. Maybe putting on a suit jacket, I'll feel a little bit. And third, I've just hit a little plateau at my age. And while I want to add some muscle which I've done, I'd lose a little muscle to show a little plateau at my age. And while I want to add some muscle, which I've done, I'd lose a little muscle to show a little more muscle.

Starting point is 01:35:08 Just curious your thoughts. Yeah, if it's a full tear, you said? Yeah, it's a full distal tear, they're calling it. Yeah, then you'll need surgery. Otherwise, that, what's torn, that stability is no longer there. Now, here's a deal with stabilizers, even ligaments. I knew a guy who tore his ACL and never replaced it.

Starting point is 01:35:29 And he would do this funny, like party trick where he'd sit down and he'd slide his shin out from under his knee. I did that with my MCL. Yeah, so, and you can get away with it, like obviously you're getting away with it, but you're noticing anytime you need to rotate in a particular way or stabilize in a particular way, that it's a problem.

Starting point is 01:35:47 So if you don't mind that, I guess you can keep going, but it's a full tear. And the roadtider cuff procedures are pretty damn good now. Now, if it was like a partial tear and you saw a physical therapist, you got a second opinion, they said, well, we could work on that. The tear will heal, but it's a fully torn. Then that it ain't coming back unless they go in and reattach it. Now, that being said, you're gonna wanna go in, you're gonna wanna get the procedure,

Starting point is 01:36:10 and you're gonna wanna have really good correctional exercise and physical therapy afterwards. Because without that, then it's gonna be, I mean, it'll be a little bit better, but it's not gonna be that much better. You're gonna want to have therapy afterwards to correct things that are happening and rebuild that strength, but a full term means that that muscles not able to do anything. I'm sure you guys can envision after having four eye surgeries, the last thing I ever did.

Starting point is 01:36:33 Surgery, I get it. And you know, talking to some people had that done and I went down the rabbit hole looking at face like, well, he talked to people, had the surgery and they still can't move. Yeah. Yeah, I probably know I'm putting off the inevitable at some point. I quit trying to figure out how to do pull-ups and some things, but yeah, it's probably coming at every surgeon. I've talked to two different ones. Interesting you guys will find this. The second guy, I supposed to be one of the best here in the state.

Starting point is 01:36:59 I said, I had the meniscus tear years ago. I had a, took my killies and tore it. Now I've got the shoulder, I said, what do you think? Is it, do I need some kind of a joint replacement? There he says, no, how's your sleep? And at that point, it's that my sleep is terrible. And he said, well, that's one of your problems.

Starting point is 01:37:12 Yeah. Yeah, that's very clear to you guys. Yeah, no, very clearly. In fact, there was a study that showed, it was a dramatic increase in injury from lack of sleep, which was pretty crazy. So look, here's a deal. The reason why some people get a surgery, they'll fix a torn, you know, rotator cuff, and

Starting point is 01:37:32 they say, oh, it still hurts, is you got to correct the muscle recruitment patterns and you have to strain, you can't just reattach something and expect it to work okay. And by the way, doing it when you have the momentum that you have and you're training like you are, you're better off now than allowing yourself, let's say to have a six month spell of off the wagon and not eating gray, putting on some weight and not having and losing some muscle. And then going, oh man, fuck, my shoulders really bothered me.

Starting point is 01:37:59 I better go get that done now. You're gonna heal faster, you're gonna recover better, you'll get back to things so much quicker if you do it when you're on top of the mountain. Like right now you've got great momentum, you've made huge progress, you're doing really good, you almost feel like you don't even necessarily need it. So my opinion would be if you were going to do it, this is the better time to do it when you're feeling like this, then versus when it's like a half to do it and you're maybe put on some weight, you lost some muscle, you're not as strong as you are, that's going to only,

Starting point is 01:38:29 it's only going to make it that much more difficult to heal the way you want to heal. Yeah, Dirk, how long has this been torn for? It's about a year now that they identified it. Okay, so let me explain what will happen and I wish surgeons, I know some of them do this now, but you know, a long time ago I trained a lot of surgeons and we would have these conversations. And they often don't communicate this with a lot of procedures. If you don't put as much time and energy into the physical therapy afterwards, you're wasting your time with the surgery.

Starting point is 01:38:57 Because look, that muscle is torn. It's disconnected. You reconnect it. Your central nervous system doesn't, it doesn't think it's connected. It's stopped working, righted your central nervous system. It doesn't think it's connected. It stopped working Right, stopped activating it. So if you just reconnect it and you go and you oh, it's healed You go to the gym. You're like I don't notice anything Well that muscle's been turned off if I tear your bicep and don't do anything with it for a year You're CNS turns it off and learns how to move around it. You've developed reallocated That's right. Those movement patterns. Well, there's there's also a major difference between the basic Six-week therapy they put you in right after that's what I'm saying versus real true therapy that happens later on after that

Starting point is 01:39:32 Yeah, I mean no matter what I want to put you in our private form because I two of the best PTs I know are in our private form and so Regardless of you you don't live in the same state and so you won't be able to necessarily see them, but you can consult with them virtually and they're in there and you can communicate with them. So if you do decide to go through this process, you have some allies with some of our friends that are in there that can be coaching along. So yeah, that's great advice. Let me give you two things, Derek, that I think will help you make this happen a lot faster. So I think the site, I want to say it's getluna.com. If I'm not mistaken, maybe Doug, you can confirm that. They are, it's a network of therapists,

Starting point is 01:40:12 and they'll come to your house. So this is one of the only companies that does this. It's all covered by insurance. You don't need to get another special referral or whatever. If you're going to get physical therapy, you can contact them. Insurance covers it. They'll come to your house, teach you the exercises or whatever. So it's way more convenient, they're really good. So there's that. The second one is there are peptides that can dramatically accelerate the healing process,

Starting point is 01:40:34 post surgery for recovery. Things like BPC. I'm starting to look at the BPC-157 and then seeing what happened with the FDA stuff, I kind of just stopped realizing I don't have access, I guess. You do have access, go to mph with the FDA stuff. I kind of just stopped realizing, I don't even have access, I guess. You do have access. Go to mphoromones.com.

Starting point is 01:40:48 They still have access. They're working with compound pharmacies that are continuing to provide these peptides until they're shut down, which they probably won't be, but that's a whole other story. Right now it's just a little fear mongering that's going on. But you go to mphoromones.com

Starting point is 01:41:04 and you can still get things like BPC157, thymus and beta, those are the two best peptides to my knowledge for recovery of tears and injuries and stuff like that. Now, it's not going to reattach your rotator cuff. If it was a partial tear, it would help the healing process, but a full tear means that you got to go in and reattach it. Post surgery though, those peptides. Oh yeah, I mean, the animal studies, you're looking at a 30, 40%.

Starting point is 01:41:31 Cut your time. Like, like, maybe, maybe I'm saying that wrong. It's connected, but there's a tear in the center of it. It's what they're telling me. Oh, okay. So it's connected on both ends, but there's a, there's a, I don't know, I think it's a one and a half centimeter tear.

Starting point is 01:41:44 At least when I had the MRI, you're a guy. Oh, he has hope. So there is a full, if they, yeah, you got it, you got to establish if it's gone, or if there's some connection, and I would look, I would take your, your whatever the diagnosis is, to a good physical therapist,

Starting point is 01:42:01 because a surgery is brought into the fore. We're gonna give you free access to the form. Get Dr. Brink to give you an assessment. And yeah, and talk to Dr. Justin Brink inside there and get his opinion. Yeah. Good friend of ours. And if it's a partial Terry,

Starting point is 01:42:16 there's still hope for him not to do that. Sure. Yeah, we'd love to see what BP157 does with some therapy with him. Yeah. Yeah, but if they're labeling it a full distal Terry, yeah, we gotta to, you got to see what that is because if it's torn and that's it, then there's nothing you could do. But if there's some connection. As far as Plato where I feel like, you know, I feel like my legs, arms, everything. I just feel like the last bit of body fat I'm trying

Starting point is 01:42:37 to remove is really torso. And I see that when I do the evil scan, everybody tells me basically, it's probably steps in movement, which I don't, you know, we don't like any kind of cardio, obviously, but you guys feel like that's where it's at. Well, movements is healthy. Yeah, activity, really, overall, just keep tracking your steps. Yeah, so one way to handle that. That's good for health, but it's diet.

Starting point is 01:42:59 Yeah, we didn't dive into the nutrition piece. That's a whole nother monster, right? I mean, obviously we were concerned about the shoulder. And I know that's what we've been talking about this whole time. The next question I would have had for you in regards to like leaning out will be, you know, do you know where your calories currently are right now, and do you have an idea of like,

Starting point is 01:43:14 how much you are moving as far as how many steps in a day? Like, what's your identity? I track everything, and I'm at like, 2020 calories, 190 grams of protein. I think when I emailed you guys, I was about 8,000 steps average, but when winter comes here in Ohio, that always drops right now.

Starting point is 01:43:31 I've been I'm 7,000 probably at best. That's not a problem. It's not the steps then. If it went from 8 to 7, that's how the big deal. Your calories were a bit low though. Yeah, your calories are low. Yeah, I would do a slow maybe reverse diet, try and build some strength, but here for your size. Yeah, I would, you know, I would do a slow, maybe reverse diet,

Starting point is 01:43:45 try and build some strength, but here's a deal. I think you're being limited quite a bit by the shoulder injury with your upper body at least. That's a limiting fact. That's a major stabilizer. And even though you can modify your form so it doesn't hurt, your body's only going to let you get so strong in certain movements. Which by the way, Sal, that means there's the silver lining in there, especially since you admitted earlier that legs were something that you neglected for a really long time. There is an opportunity to double and triple down on your leg training, because that's where you're gonna see some of the biggest muscle gains, since you have the highest potential there, because they've got the least amount of training for decades now.

Starting point is 01:44:22 So put a lot of that energy there, because you're limited to the shoulder and upper body, you are only gonna be able to push so much weight. And so instead of getting a hung up on that until we solve the shoulder issue, is really train legs. Really get out, set some goals as far as some of your big leg movements and get strong as fuck in your legs.

Starting point is 01:44:41 And that's where, and that right there, in a calorie surplus too, by the way, I would like to reverse you out of where you're at, like, if you're around, we don't want to cut from 2000. No, I'd rather see you around 24, 2500 calories and hit in the legs harder than you ever have. And then let's see what that does

Starting point is 01:44:56 as far as speeding the metabolism up and actually leaning you out. Adam, how many days a week do you think I can hit legs at my age? What would you say to that number? A lot of that has to do with the intensity that you bring towards it. I think you could handle one to two moderately hard to hard days and then one to two easier light days. So it really depends on that.

Starting point is 01:45:15 I don't think you could handle three to four intense days of training, but you can definitely get after you have a day that's really intense and then two days that are like moderate to light intensity. So that was kind of how I would do. Do you have access to a sled, dirt? Yeah, actually I started doing sled work after hearing you guys. I absolutely love the sled. I do my picture is usually me pushing and pulling a sled. Yeah, dirt, you could do the sled every day if you want.

Starting point is 01:45:40 That's what that's one that is, I mean, you can over train on it, but it doesn't damage the body like other exercises. So if you want, like every workout, you could start with, you know, two or three sets of pushing the sled at a moderate intensity. So one of my favorite ways to use the sled, especially with the advice I'm giving you right now is I'm going to have a day that's that's sled free that I'm training hard like it's in its deadlift squatting day, Bulgarian split squats, those types of movements. If I, and then let's say that, let's just say for our arguments, say, this is Monday, and then Wednesday, I want you to hit legs again, you know, two days later, basically, depending on how much you overeached on Monday, depends on if I'm going to push you towards sled work or like other

Starting point is 01:46:18 exercises. So if we went really pretty intense on Monday, I might do a lot of sled work on Wednesday to let you, because I don't give you some active recovery, like Sal saying you're not gonna do as much damage. Now let's say Monday, you train really hard, but you're like, man, I didn't get really good sore at all. I might get after it again. I might do some lunges or something else, another big, strong movement on Wednesday for your legs again.

Starting point is 01:46:38 So I'd use the sled as a way to modify your intensity. So it's like, I wanna get after legs, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, but if I got after them too much on Monday, and I'm really having a hard time moving around on Wednesday, then I'm going to do something like the sled instead of doing those hard moves again. If I don't feel really sore from it,

Starting point is 01:46:54 then I might get after those movements again. Does that make sense? Yeah, I do. Like Memorial Day, I'll give you. I wanted to do some different idea. 24 sled pushes down the back of like 275 pounds. I did 24 farmer walks with a 70 pound and a 45 pound kettlebell. And then I did 24 overhead holds

Starting point is 01:47:10 with a 60 pound ball for 24 seconds, 24 times. And the next day I was sore, but I wasn't immovable sore. I wanted to do something heavy on this. I, you know, listen to you guys. I found another gear that I learned to push, but also know that the next two days I can't do that back to back to back. That's right.

Starting point is 01:47:27 That's right. Okay, you got it. Yeah, you got it for sure. What, are you following one of our maps programs right now? Yeah, I'm in a static. I'm in the third phase, first week of a static, basically. I did that because honestly, I want to look better. I want to be healthy.

Starting point is 01:47:41 I'm a grandpa now, or a paw paw, I guess, as they call me. So I said, my goal is to go to like her third grade lunch and with pop-up on kids go, oh my God, that's your grandpa. That's a good goal. I like that. I like that. Well, we're going to put you in the forum. I think find you keep rolling with the static increase your calories. Put a look. So in a static, you pick muscle groups. I don't know what one or two

Starting point is 01:48:04 muscle groups you pick to focus on. But let's make it legs. Okay. So pick muscle groups. I don't know what one or two muscle groups you picked to focus on, but let's make it legs. Okay. So make it. Legs. I every Saturday with legs. Okay, good. Okay. Good. You're on track. Yeah. Yeah. That's so let's increase the calories by good three to four hundred calories a day. Somewhere in that range, get in the form, throw you in the forum and then stay close to you. I know that one scares me to that one scares me to death like everybody else. My friend, I'm going gonna start putting on weight, but I'll start creeping it up.

Starting point is 01:48:28 I'll start creeping it up. Yeah, that's it, you're creeping up. Yeah, you'll be all right. Well guys, you got such a big audience, I'd be remiss if I didn't take one minute just to tell you that anybody out there wearing contacts, stay away from water. Ah!

Starting point is 01:48:40 You don't wanna deal with what I deal with, which was basically a bad splash of water that put a parasite in my eye and It's called an acanthamie but carotitis so if you don't mind me throwing that plug out there everybody in context I never swam in them. I never showered in them. It was truly a free accident for me that that changed my life about three years ago That's crazy, man. Wow. That's crazy. That's crazy. Dig a holler out there by in context. Stay away from water, please. All right. Geez. I'm sure to prep at everyone. All right, Dirk. Thanks. They're love the show. Appreciate you guys very much. Thank you, Matt.

Starting point is 01:49:11 We got all men. Man, that's crazy. It's really splash of water. What do you say? One in five million? Yeah, that's a million. Well, there's a parasite. There's a parasite. I was talking this off. There's a parasite swim up your peahol. You know, yeah, in like some weird lake. Yeah. It's like we's like weird rivers and shit. Yeah, Amazon. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going anywhere. I'm just sitting right there. I'm sitting right here. That is it. I like pools. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:49:34 You know, okay, so I want, so obviously he'll get a chance to listen to this. Dirk, make sure that we get a clear diagnosis of what's going on. Because if he does have a partial tear and he actually feels as good as he says he feels, I think BP157 with some good rehab will absolutely help. I think he's a talk to somebody who's rehabs specifically, because there are tears that you ain't gonna rehab. So we gotta be sure. Full tear, yeah, usually means,

Starting point is 01:49:59 yeah, you're gonna need surgery. There's no need to rehab. That's right. Look, if you like the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com, check out all of our free fitness guides. You can also find all of us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump Justin. I'm at Mind Pump to stuff and I own Adam. He's at Mind Pump Adam.

Starting point is 01:50:13 Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps and Obolic, Maps Performance and Maps Esthetic, nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal and I'm in Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price.

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