Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2291: What to Do When You Have an Insatiable Appetite, the Best Way to Train With Type 2 Diabetes, Overcoming the Fear of Lifting Heavy Weights & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Might pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is mind pump. Right. In today's episode we answered live callers questions. When people called in, we got to help them out on air,

Starting point is 00:00:23 but this was after an intro portion today. It was 55 minutes long This is where we talk about current events and family life and scientific studies Fitness and much more. You can check the show notes for time stamps if you want to fast forward to some of your favorite parts Also, if you want to be on an episode like this one email us your question at live at mine pump media comm Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Organifi. They have a new sleep product that really does help with occasional nights

Starting point is 00:00:49 of sleeplessness with compounds like valerian root, holy basil, chamomile. It definitely relaxes the body. It's great for those of you that have trouble sleeping because of anxiety. Anyway, go check them out. Go to organifi.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump, get 20% off.

Starting point is 00:01:07 This episode's also brought to you by Interest Skincare. They have a product called Follatin that uses peptides that have been proven to help regrow hair. I've been using it myself, it's remarkable stuff. Go check them out, go to interestskincare.com forward slash M-P-M, so that's E-N-T-E-R-A, skincare.com forward slash m p m. So that's e n t e r a skin care dot com forward slash m p m. Use the code m p m and get 10% off your order. Also, the

Starting point is 00:01:34 sale for this month is maps anabolic and maps anabolic advance. Both of those programs are two most popular muscle building metabolism boosting programs are 50% off. If you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code March 50 for the discount. Alright, here comes the show. T-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time! Ah, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week.

Starting point is 00:02:02 Got six winners this week. Four, I'm sorry, five winners this week, three for Apple Podcast, two for Facebook, the Apple Podcast winners are Jack Augusta, GA, Hunter Biden's dad, and Christian McCaffraises. For Facebook, we have Leisha Archer and Christopher Anderson, all five of you are winners. So the name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com,

Starting point is 00:02:26 include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you. Heavily processed foods has been connected to poor health and obesity. If that wasn't enough to get you to stop eating them, well, listen to this. We now have a meta analysis showing that also leads to mental health outcomes that aren't so great. In other words, eating heavily processed foods can also make you feel

Starting point is 00:02:48 depressed and anxious. Looks like these foods don't have a ton of value besides the fact that they just taste really good and they're convenient. So you probably want to avoid them. How do they prove that? Is that, um, people reporting back that they feel depressed? Like how are you measuring that? I think that's what they're doing. I think they're looking at It is a meta analysis so that makes it

Starting point is 00:03:18 Cross cross cross studies right of course in order to come up with this Yes, and see if I know that's the most act, but I mean it just that sounds so Yeah arbitrary right, you have this, people that eat processed foods and they eat a sneaker bar and you just like, there's nothing to do with my wife and I got in a fight last night. It was more to do with the Cheerios that I had. Well, here's what the conclusion of this made analysis said. It says, greater exposure to ultra processed food was associated with the higher risk of adverse health outcomes, especially cardiomet metabolic, common mental disorder and mortality outcomes. These findings provide a rationale to develop the evaluation of

Starting point is 00:03:51 effectiveness of using population based and public health measures to target and reduce dietary exposure to ultra processed foods for improved human health. So through these meta analysis, they were able to deduce with, I mean, more certainty than we have, although I would argue that this is probably the case, that it's not, it's cause and effect, not the other way around. In other words, one of the arguments may be,

Starting point is 00:04:14 well, wouldn't people who are depressed and anxious reach for these foods more often? How do you parse that out? Well, that's what they looked at with the meta-analysis. And so they say, okay, it's probably, yes, if you're more depressed and anxious, more likely to reach for these foods these foods also tend to cause Those effects on people now that makes sense to me Because we know conclusively that ultra processed foods make people overeat

Starting point is 00:04:38 overeating You know, obviously you start to gain body fat that you get blood sugar issues that aren't so great. That is going to make you feel bad as well. You know what? What two things make me reach for processed foods the most poor sleep and activity. Isn't that weird? Those two things will, will promote me wanting to grab processed food, junk food, however you want to categorize it more than anything else that I've ever

Starting point is 00:05:05 paid attention to or track, which I've tracked a lot of this stuff. I noticed that if I get a poor night's sleep, the cravings are like crazy. I noticed that if I have a sedentary day, don't get up, don't exercise, don't train or what that kind of lounge around. Boy, do I want something fast junk food like food. Yeah. Is that a mechanism of like we're seeking high calorie dense foods or is it just in comfort?

Starting point is 00:05:28 It's gotta be comfort because it would be the opposite, right? The opposite would be true, but you would think that if I went trained that I'd want calorie dense food, I'd want all those calories, I need those calories because I just depleted myself, which makes more biological sense. We've turned foods into drugs, that's what it is. So food. It's more of a drug response.

Starting point is 00:05:44 Yes, 100%. Yes, we have turned food. It's more of a drug response. Yes, 100%. Yes, we have turned food. So what scientists have done with ultra processed foods, if they've, I mean, they've really, people don't realize this. The money and effort that has gone into the food science is remarkable. When you start to go down the rabbit hole, your mind continuously gets blown at just how,

Starting point is 00:06:03 how much money time and effort they've had, they have spent on really figuring this out, how to get these foods to trigger mechanisms in your body to make them so irresistible that they've literally turned foods into drugs in terms of how your body reacts. So you're not reaching for them for nutrients. No, your body and brain is reaching them for a drug like effects point would make more sense a point would make more sense It would make more sense that after a hard workout that I would reach for a you know 1500 calorie fast food so to put it differently right in in nature to find

Starting point is 00:06:36 palatability would require some sort of effort right so You want a high a nutrient dense food like meat in nature. Well, you got to go chase the animal down. You got to kill it. Yeah, you got to kill it. And then you, and then you get your meat. You want to find something sweet fruit. And for most of human history, it was pretty hard to come by. Didn't look like the fruit that we've, uh, that we have now, like apples, very little flesh, big seeds, same thing with bananas and other fruits that we've kind of modified. Honey, you had to go through bees to get honey. And so that was considered, I mean, honey, you know,

Starting point is 00:07:09 for most cultures for a long time was like, very, very, I don't know, expensive kind of luxurious type food. Desirable, yeah. Now you can find foods that hit those and then some in the brain and it requires no effort at all. It's no different than what pornography's done to our brains when it comes to

Starting point is 00:07:27 sex. For most of human history, you want to have sex with somebody who's very attractive. There's some hoops you got to go through and you really need to pass a lot of tests and be worthy of that. Now you could just, you know, Now because of that, I feel like I've changed over time. My recommendation to a client or a potential client when it comes to getting in shape and Like what steps would I take first? I think in the past I Would have leaned heavy on the diet because we know how much diet is I would tell somebody like

Starting point is 00:07:55 You know, I'll cut these foods out or add these foods and you know Just that alone is already gonna change the body morning because we know how what big percentage food is but knowing what a, how much more a challenge it is to eat good foods because you don't move or aren't exercising makes me reverse how I would probably recommend. Like I think now I think- Do things that make you feel good. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:17 Like, especially like when I think back to like even my own habits of exercise, like I really think now, which I don't think I've ever recommended this to a client. Like obviously I've been done training clients for a long time now. And if I go back again, I think I would recommend a very similar to a maps 15 type of protocol to clients

Starting point is 00:08:36 before they did any... They get that daily activity. Yes, like literally just... Little momentum builders. Yeah, like just 15 minutes. Gosh. Every day. And now you're right. I would have done the same thing. Yeah, 100%. And I would Gosh, every day. And I know you're right.

Starting point is 00:08:45 I would have done the same thing. Yeah. And I would, and I would literally just, and would I tell them nutritionally? Just track for me. Cause one, I already know tracking will make them self-regulate by 15%. Just a little bit of awareness. Right. Secret pros and out.

Starting point is 00:08:57 All I want you to do to these two exercises every day, that's it. Track what you're doing. Report back to me. Then as a coaching trainer, I, I assess it and I go, I don't look to take away. I look where can I add top areas, protein, fiber, healthy fats, right? And I just start giving them little bits of like, because low enough dose, it's gonna build up a lot of that like good feeling. Yeah. And you're not gonna get a lot of the detriment of like, oh, I overdid it or I,

Starting point is 00:09:25 you know, now I got to recover and I'm sore. I'm whatever. And I recognize the behaviors that are attached to the movement again. Like I was saying earlier that I recognize that when I don't work out, I tend to crazy. So just when I train, it doesn't get to be a hard session at all or great sessions, just because I lifted that day, I automatically want to make better food choices. It's not like I'm telling myself, I need to because I,

Starting point is 00:09:48 well, the data shows up. Like I want to, I like, I, yeah, we had, we had two, two days this weekend, one weekend, one day we trained, one day we didn't. And the day that, and this is where this is coming up for me, is like, I could feel the difference between the two. And the day that we worked out together, I looked at Katrina and I'm like, no, I know, and we were ordering out, right? That was where we're at. Like we, we didn't have anything prepared for the day. Her and I were like, oh, let's, let's order, let's order in.

Starting point is 00:10:12 And as we're going through door to Ashley and the things I'm like, I don't want any of those things like that, that we're going through because I want, I wanted something healthy. My body was craving that it's versus the day before when I hadn't trained and we had ordered by the way, I want to, I want to add a little caveat. You trained appropriately. I think a terrible workout where you beat their shit out of yourself. You're just cortisol, cortisol spikes like you'll be seeking comfort from food.

Starting point is 00:10:36 Sure. You know, this reminds me of, uh, God, man, you guys ever think back to arguments you had that you thought you were saw right. And then years later you look back at, oh, they were right all time. I had an instructor that used to teach, um, uh, meditation classes. Uh, at one point I had a small studio in addition to the wellness studio where we did group classes and this was a meditation expert. And they made a comment to me that I couldn't let pass.

Starting point is 00:11:01 So we were talking about the benefits of meditation and they were paying me. I mean, I was hiring them to teach them, I was interested in learning. And I took some meditation classes from them, but by no means did I have a lot of experience. And they were talking about all the benefits and the values and I said, you know, what's weird about meditation?

Starting point is 00:11:15 What's cool is that your clients that you train, Sal, you don't even have to talk to them about diet. If they just meditate, they'll eat better. And I remember I was like, I can't let that slide. So I'm like, no, it doesn't work that way. So we got in this big old debate. We got in this big old debate. Well, they actually showed me a study. They actually showed me several studies where when people meditated daily, they actually ate healthier. And I remember I still went against it and I've argued it in this and that and whatever.

Starting point is 00:11:42 But I think that they made a really good point. And that is when you are, when you're able to, like through meditation or whatever practice, you start to feel better in your body. You start to feel more present. You don't feel like you have to distract yourself or whatever. You're probably less likely to reach for food as a way to comfort yourself. And again, studies have shown this. Isn't this parallel to what we're finding with those Zempik in these like GLPs because of the lowering

Starting point is 00:12:06 of brain inflammation? Yeah, that's what they think, right? They speculate, but I mean, it just makes sense, even with like feeling better with the body, you know, meditating, so you're reducing stress, so you can actually make conscious decisions that benefit you, you know, all that matters. Like you're just gonna do a lot better

Starting point is 00:12:24 if you bring yourself into that state. perfect transition to me getting to this beef I have with Sal, Justin. Oh, oh, this would be good. Did you know that? What happened? I got beef with you. I sent a text that I don't think, I don't know if Justin, you pay attention to our mind pump one on one weekends or what about that? Oh yeah, I read it, but then I don't know if Justin, you even pay attention to our mind pump one on one weekends or what about that? Oh yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:45 I read it, but then I don't respond to it. I was like, you guys swallow it out. Because I was saying that, Hey, we should, we should buy more weight watchers, uh, because the news that just came out, uh, with Oprah, Oprah has stepped away. She's donating her shares, but that was given away. Like, I think I want to say like $1.8 million worth of her shares. No, billion.

Starting point is 00:13:05 Oh, bill is no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, of her shares. No, billion. No, no, no. Like sold her whole stock in that? Yeah, she has shares. She had shares in the company. See how much it was. There's controversy around this, right? So she has came out publicly in the last year and shared that part of her huge success and weight loss had to do with, she didn't say what drug she was taking, but she was taking a drug or pharmaceutical or, or something. And so there's a lot of speculation that it was, you know,

Starting point is 00:13:31 some of it, yeah. Basically Ozympic or the other, uh, name brands or what like that. And so she's decided to step away and to stay away from the controversy on, she was doing it to exit, make money and all this stuff. That she just donated her shares, which is a smart play on her part. Now I made the case that, listen, I already thought Weight Watchers is a good buy at $4. It's now, it plummeted because of her announcing you, the biggest spokesperson

Starting point is 00:13:55 for Weight Watchers in the last, a good hit from that. Yeah. So they took a 20% hit or what that shares dropped down. It basically dropped down to $3 share. I said, do that. Sal said, didn't want to do that and thinks that weight watchers is going to go under over that.

Starting point is 00:14:09 Now I made the case that Matt over her, I think that all these diet companies, cause I'm looking at what these GLP ones are doing. And I'm going to tell you right now, if you're a company and your sole job is giving people diets and helping them with their diets and here's your diet food Here's your whatever like Weight Watchers does and other companies. I think these GLP ones are gonna put them out of business I do I already know people on GLP ones

Starting point is 00:14:34 So your argument is this is gonna put them out of business Adam's argument is that they're gonna incorporate it. They are incorporating right they are already correct Adam's Adam's argument Is this coming's been around for 60 years and I'm going to bet on a company that's been successful for 60 years that because the market wins change that they adapt it just like I would hope we would. This is if all of a sudden, but this is truly a market shattering technology. This is not like anything we've ever seen.

Starting point is 00:15:04 Well, Mark, so is there any numbers of people that are seeking the drug itself gathering technology. This is not like anything we've ever seen. Is there any numbers of people that are seeking the drug itself without any kind of like coaching along with it? Most vast majority of people are just taking a GLP one. Yeah. I don't think so. I don't, I don't think by any means that, uh, like what's the value of weight watchers because they was a social component and you're working with those people and they're helping you. But you know how powerful that is CrossFit's example, shitty workouts.

Starting point is 00:15:25 Look at all people doing it still. No, no, no. Imagine if there was a peptide that made you love, that would be this. That's not the right comparison. It would be like a peptide that made you want to work out. So imagine if he gave you a peptide, man, I really want to work out. I enjoy it. I'm not going to cry.

Starting point is 00:15:38 I'm giving a shit about CrossFit. I'm going to go do my own thing now. Yeah. I, you know, as, as, as much as we're, they're, they're screwed. I think that they know they're screwed. That's why they're jumping on. I don't think it's that revolutionary. I think in the world of drugs, peptides, pharmaceuticals, weight loss things that have been invented, it is the most breakthrough thing we've ever seen. There's not even a single... There's too much,

Starting point is 00:16:01 there's too... Yeah, okay, fair. I agree with that, but that's not enough. That's not enough. Or else, or else we would see obesity are you on the decline? Yes. No, no, no, hold on a second. To your point, if it's gonna put out all the, all the companies that have any sort of tie to diets because this drug comes out,

Starting point is 00:16:20 I think it's gonna- Then you would see a movement in the obesity market. It's already starting to's it's just started to The market is really now starting to explode. I do. I think it's going to solve obesity or health issues. No but if your market if your weight watchers in your market is people who like really need help and support So they don't overeat and I need real help doing this and then they there's this peptide that comes out that people take And it's not a stimulant. It's not gonna do anything like the prior medications. They just take it and they're just like,

Starting point is 00:16:48 wow, I'm not really thinking about food like I used to. I don't even wanna drink as much alcohol. I don't like bad habits. I kind of feel like doing them less. Like that, why would they, that my point is what kind of coaching they use. Now I can see personal trainers and coaches and fitness coaches and people interested in like building muscle.

Starting point is 00:17:06 Cause obviously just sitting less isn't going to do it. You're going to lose muscle and fat. You also have to eat the high protein. I think there's a lot of opportunity in that for sure. Potential. Yeah. I mean, do you, do you believe that coaches and trainers are also going to exist? Oh, you think coaches and trainers are going away? I know. I think, no, I think they're going to do fine.

Starting point is 00:17:22 Okay. So it's the exercise component. Okay. So, okay. So here's the thing too. This is the, like, just how I know, I think, no, I think they're going to do fine. Because the exercise component. Okay, so, okay, so here's the thing too. This is the, like, just how I think. Because it would be so naive if somebody looked at our business, okay, and we're nothing compared to Weight Watchers. Sure. If someone looked at our business and, because podcasting is going to go away completely, or because digital programs are never going to get bought online,

Starting point is 00:17:42 that we would disappear. I have a little more faith in us and our ability to adapt. I said to you that revenue, right? Yeah, no, they've been on a decline for almost a decade. So that's your best argument is that the company's been on it, you know, profitability wise and gross wise. And I, but I think that the Ozympic sales

Starting point is 00:18:03 are what's gonna take them out of that. At the very, it's going to give them their best year coming out. Why would they, why would somebody pay Weight Watchers to get some aglutide when they can go get the peptide by itself? Because they're already in the network. Dude, how many leads do you think they have over 60 years of collecting people's emails? So, so, so weight watchers are going to support. Yeah, how many people do you think? So they're going to start providing the peptides? They are. Oh, they're gonna start providing the peptides? They are.

Starting point is 00:18:26 Oh, they're connected to it. But what I mean is so that's all they're going to do. They're going to pivot in that direction. I'm not saying that's the only thing they're going to do, but imagine that they, okay, there is a whole bunch of people that that's a good question. Cause I don't know how they're working with these with some, oh, they're directly partnered. They're making money.

Starting point is 00:18:43 They're making money off of getting people to go to like a physician that actually like prescribes is a whole another step on its own with instead of just going into like what you were already like your network, you're going to. What do you, what do you think? 60 years. Okay. You know how many emails we have, you know how small we are, how big do you think they're internal networks? And then how many people do you think we introduce semi-gluteide to?

Starting point is 00:19:10 Would you not agree that probably 80% of the people that listen to our show heard about semi-gluteide from us first? So what makes you think that that isn't the same thing that happened in Weight Watchers, that this is their trusted source of information related to nutrition, otherwise they wouldn't. It's a very interesting market. When I look at it, it's the most disruptive thing we've ever seen that we're ever going, we've ever seen. I'll bet money on that in this space.

Starting point is 00:19:36 Okay. There's nothing. I agree. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.

Starting point is 00:19:39 Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.

Starting point is 00:19:40 Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.

Starting point is 00:19:43 Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. I also think that that is a weight watchers has been on this down return. They saw the writing on the wall and they partnered up with a peptide company. Or that that's the move. Is that how they are? They're pep, they're, they're partnered with Ozimpic. So you go to them and then weight watchers has you talk with a doctor.

Starting point is 00:19:57 I mean, and then they provide it to you. How does that work? What does this work? Sure. Weight watchers has faced more competition recently from GLP one prescription drugs like Ozimpic, we go V sometimes use for weight loss and response. here. Weight Watchers has faced more competition recently from GLP-1 prescription drugs like Osempic-Wigovi, sometimes used for weight loss and response. It launched a new membership plan for people on those drugs that gives members access to

Starting point is 00:20:13 doctors who can prescribe these medications. Okay, so last year we also made a hundred million plus deal to buy Sequence, a telehealth business that offers virtual prescriptions. So they have a telehealth business too offers virtual prescriptions. So they have a tell they have a telehealth. So they're, they're very, they're pivoting big time. Yes. You know what's crazy about this? Can I just say this?

Starting point is 00:20:32 What's crazy? Cause I don't know about it yesterday, Doug. No, you should see what they're at right now. It's okay. They're 320. I bought more today. You know what's crazy about this? By the way, all your pics of crowd of tanks.

Starting point is 00:20:41 Well, your portfolio is mine. Hey, hold up. Hubspot is your biggest buyout, though. It doesn't matter that I didn't buy it. I told them to add a mention so he doesn't buy. Yes. That's my biggest blunder was I said to do it, and I didn't do it.

Starting point is 00:20:55 You did it. It is literally your portfolio right now. Listen. Listen. Oh, god, dude. Hey, man. Who was it that first said the Earth was round, but then Columbus came over here. So the thing with these GLP ones, because some of the glutein is one of the first ones.

Starting point is 00:21:14 Now they're coming out with other ones that are more effective. It's bro, I am reading about this stuff and I'm looking at the science. This is weird. I don't know where it's going to go, but this could very well. This is Tris I don't know where it's going to go, but this could very well tris epitide. This could very well be one of the most prescribed things ever. Oh, I think it's already on its way. Yeah. Yeah, it's gotta be on its way. I mean, it's the only reason why it's not, I bet it's trajectory is already there.

Starting point is 00:21:38 It just needs time. It hasn't been around long enough because... But there's also not just weight loss. Like there's weird studies that come out showing people like. So, not by your name. Not by your name. Not drinking alcohol, eh? Obviously, I know nothing about stocks. I just say that.

Starting point is 00:21:54 Like this is just fun, gambling. You know, the gambling for us in a sense. And but here's a couple of things. One, they're at a 52 week. You made a good point. Now that I see this, your case, you might have swayed me because now that I see that they actually made this deal with the company Telehealth and that they're actually making money off of it.

Starting point is 00:22:13 I mean, weight watchers, in my opinion, could look completely different in the next five years. Completely. I'm thinking old weight watchers. Yes. I'm like, how would they, like, who cares? Yeah. But I mean, I'm just, that's just like a good old rule thumb. I was going to say that's so funny. It's still the same thing. Joe started again.

Starting point is 00:22:32 I mean, you're always safer betting on companies that have been around for decades. You know, betting on some startup or new idea is not a good idea, but a company that has lasted through probably three, four recessions already and found a way to survive and have been way higher valuation than they are right now. And then they partnered with what we believe. I mean, we've been talking about that this space exploding. There's a reason why we got partnered up or as early as we did because we believed it where it's going.

Starting point is 00:23:01 And they obviously saw the same writing on the wall. That to me is it would be naive to think that they are not going to do well because it's going. And they obviously saw the same writing on the wall. That to me is, it would be naive to think that they are not going to do well because of that. These medics, these peptides are making such waves that they're scaring. I just opened this episode with high ultra process food talk, right? It's scaring companies that like mega companies

Starting point is 00:23:22 that make ultra process. It's freaking them out because they're like, oh, this is the first time. Uh, they have maybe come out with something that's going to make people want less Oreos and Doritos and shit like that. Yeah. This is totally not, uh, this off topic, but there was this video of these, like these really huge, like obese guys playing, uh, in a band together. And the comment section, section had me just doubt.

Starting point is 00:23:47 Yeah, it was like they're coming up with names for them. Oh, God, you know, like Oreo feed wagon. O B C D. Anyways, that just reminded me of that. I was dying. There's Larry. I love I love was dying, dude. I was hilarious. I love, I love. Back to my argument, okay, on why we should buy is also too,

Starting point is 00:24:11 is I think that what happened with Oprah was like the, for somebody who was buying the stock. Well, that makes it dip. Yes, because it's, it's the, you know, she is, you know, to the average consumer, the face of way watching. So you see Oprah walk away from it and the average person goes oh my god this is all bad news I just saw oh this is great you guys gonna try one of them the OP one I will I'm gonna do it because someone has to hear I can't come on too many other peptides but I have

Starting point is 00:24:37 a full disclosure yeah I don't know what might happen guys. I feel like I have four of them that are fighting each other. You know what I mean? There's all the other. No, I know somebody close to me. I don't want to say too much. You just want me to talk to them. I've got several people. But I talk to her regularly and she tells me.

Starting point is 00:24:55 She's like, I know somebody. I'm like, are you high? You feel energized? Are you weird? Do you feel like agitated? She's like, no, I just feel the same. Like what about food? She goes, I still think about it as much.

Starting point is 00:25:05 I'm like, do you still like the taste of it? She goes, yeah, I still like it. I just don't want to eat of it. I just like the other day I had ice cream. She's like, I just had a little bit. I don't want to eat more. And I'm just like, that's why I want to try it. That's why I want to try it. Is I know my own behaviors around things like ice cream and sweets. And so that's what I'm most curious about. Does all, do all of a sudden I can have like this tiny little one scoop of ice cream and walk away. My stomach problems have ruined that for me already.

Starting point is 00:25:27 I'm like, I don't have those like, oh, I want this. You know, like dream about it. Bro, you know what's so wild is. But I'm like, oh, it's alcohol probably. You could have that and it's wild that we still do stuff. Like I, there's times when I know, like this is going to fuck me up. And I still choose to go in Tonight I'm paying for it. Do you have to wear it?

Starting point is 00:25:49 Drug like effects. No, I mean how many times you drugs? Yes, that's why it's like it's I mean Self-awareness is one step in the process here, but it's it's only one step It's still you got it because I'm fully aware. Yeah, I'm what I'm going into love pizza like that, too one step, it's still, you gotta, cause I'm fully aware on what I'm going into. I used to love pizza like that too. I just can't do this. Oh, that'll describe me the most.

Starting point is 00:26:07 Who, who was it that was gonna talk about Tramoth on, was that you? Oh, oh, oh. There was something that he posted. I can't remember it was. Yeah, oh. It was controversial. Where are you guys talking about?

Starting point is 00:26:16 Oh, oh yeah, he said, so I, this is on the most recent, on the most recent all-in podcast. I'm liking him more and more lately. He's going hard. I thought it was, wasn't it? Huh? No, no, no. Oh, I'm liking him more and more late. He's going hard. It was about COVID, wasn't it? Huh? No, no.

Starting point is 00:26:26 Oh, okay. So it was actually really interesting and it definitely should take from the clip. And so maybe the YouTube guys all, all find out exactly where it is on the latest episode, but he like explains it. And I'm probably going to butcher it, but I thought it was brilliant when he, after he explained it, like all of his companies that he owns and runs and it's a part of no HR, no matter how big they are, no HR. Oh wow.

Starting point is 00:26:49 And he makes the case for how toxic they are. Cause it's like, he's like name an HR where anybody who works there has ever said it's like truly there for them. It's always there to like protect, support the company. It has this, this random, you know, private conversations that it has. And it has all these rules and regulations, and he's like, dude, we're completely transparent. He goes, I have our group of people vote on everything.

Starting point is 00:27:12 Like he explained how he operates without one. And it made me go like, dude, why would you ever put HR? And it made me actually want to look at the origin of where that came from and who started that idea. I wonder if it actually helps or hurts because I think the thought process, like we need HR to prevent any potential. So what he does is he partners with, he goes for legal reasons. You, you partner with a law firm and you talk to a law firm to make sure that

Starting point is 00:27:37 all your, your, your T's across the knives are dotted for any scenarios where you would need a legal team. And so you have that in place, but you operate everything within, uh, transparency within the company. And he goes, it's just, and he made a really, I never heard anybody make that argument before and after hearing it, and the reason why this is interesting to us, cause right now building an HR department and everything like that is top of

Starting point is 00:28:01 mine for us in this business. And we've been in the process of that. You still had to have real. Yeah. That's right. Now I'm still out of my job. Adam's out of my job. We're set. Justin offended me.

Starting point is 00:28:11 That's because you're a pussy. Yeah. I'm back to work. Grow a pair. Who do I report Adam to? So, but I mean, after listening to that, I'll share it with all of you guys, because you guys have to listen to him again,

Starting point is 00:28:23 explaining exactly the logistics of how it works. Super logical. And the other three guys are just like, oh my God, yeah, brilliant. Makes total sense. And of course, Jason, my least favorite of the four guests, try to challenge it with like his, his, you know, his woke ideology and Chamoth. Just, you know, what happens a lot of companies when they get really big. I experienced this a while ago.

Starting point is 00:28:45 I won't give too many details, but I got on a phone call with this company to talk about stuff. And it was like a basic conversation we're gonna have, you know, having to do with mine pump. And like 15 people on the call for the most basic conversation. Okay, let's all go around the room and introduce ourselves. Hi, I'm Suzy from blah, blah, blah.

Starting point is 00:29:03 Hi, I'm blah, blah, blah. It's like 10 minutes of intros. And we get to have the, and I'm like, it could have been me and room and introduce ourselves. Hi, I'm Susie from blah, blah, blah. Hi, I'm blah, blah, blah. It's like 10 minutes of intros and we get to have the, and I'm like, it could have been me and you and we could have been done. Why don't we have all these people make- These corporate entities still run things like that. That's just an example, I think of. These corporations.

Starting point is 00:29:17 Yeah, I think it's just an example of what happens when you infuse money into a company. Like we used to talk about this when we first started, when we were like, you just get going and you know, like, hey, we, and we would ever, we'll pine this guy ideas, everything that we had when we first started. And I can't remember who said it out of you guys, but you're like, you know, imagine if we had, you know, $10 million that we could go do this and this. And like, oh my God, that'd be like the worst thing actually is that we have all these ideas we think

Starting point is 00:29:41 are good ideas. And what you would do is you would just go hire people for those ideas instead of actually, which is like the, so great book to read. I think I've recommended this a long time ago, which is called, um, the guys who started base camp rework is the name of the book. And it's the opposite philosophy of that, which is you should never hire anybody for something in your company until you have worked out first. Yeah. Until you do that position first.

Starting point is 00:30:04 So you have a true understanding of the value of that position, how hard somebody should work at that, whether it's all the above, and then you hire. And until you're willing to discipline yourself to put those hours in, work that, and do that, you shouldn't hire somebody. If there's so many times,

Starting point is 00:30:17 and the opposite happens when you get all of a sudden, round two or series B, and all of a sudden they get $100 million of views, like, oh, we're gonna do this this and we're going to do that. So we have a bunch of people because the perception too, it's like, they want to, they want to show that they have all of these things that, that you need them for, you know, even if you don't, like they're going to create it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:36 So it's like, you got to be conscious of that. Yeah. No, a hundred percent. They have to take, they're creating their own value. Oh, well, I'm busy. Look what I'm doing. I'm not going to say it's a huge bureaucracy within a company. Oh, do you remember that company? I'm not going to say what it was,

Starting point is 00:30:48 but remember that company we visited and we walked once a years ago. We just like, I know. I know. And we walked around and we met a bunch of, I asked all the employees what they did. They couldn't even explain their job. Yeah. Oh, I, uh, I, you know, this and then we're like, oh my God.

Starting point is 00:31:01 There's like 15 people that no, like five Facebook managers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Facebook related. Why is there any five Facebook managers? What do you all do? There's data on this, right? How many big companies, how much time is actually

Starting point is 00:31:15 productive when people work versus how much time? Well, look what happened to Twitter. Twitter's still around. Has Twitter, for a consumer, has Twitter changed? It's UI. It's more it's more it's more efficient Okay. Yeah, what and then how many people did he cut? I think two-thirds. Yeah, didn't he cut more than half, right? Yeah, I'm if I'm not mistaken. I mean thousands of people. Yeah, like to think how we'll talk about the Inefficiency of that business for some of the other comment and cut thousands of people for people listening right now Because what though what a lot of people will hear is,

Starting point is 00:31:45 oh my God, those people lost their jobs. That's terrible. Yes, there are people that lost their jobs, but what you want in markets is you want efficiency, because otherwise it's wasted resources, meaning resources, okay, money, but really money represents resources. When money goes to stuff that's not efficient,

Starting point is 00:32:03 that means it's not going to places that it could go to become more efficient, more innovation that are products. It's rewarding in efficiency. Yeah. It's rewarding in efficiency. And so your dollar doesn't go as far as it did before because 30% of the jobs or people, you know, or, or that are doing or whatever the case is, what other number is, it's just, they don't have to be doing it. They shouldn't, they don't need to be doing it.

Starting point is 00:32:26 And so it's just a waste. So since we're in this conversation, and I want you to listen, I gotta go, I'm gonna download and listen to the whole conversation. I only saw a short clip of this, but it was, what was the name of the guy that we really liked his speech when we were at ARC? I think it was Constantine or...

Starting point is 00:32:40 Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. Right? I don't know how much of his stuff you guys have consumed. I've seen a few videos of him. Yeah, you really good podcast. You've seen a few videos of him. He's a really, yeah, he really good. You ever heard him debate? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:48 Great debater. He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he uh, brought up a point that I thought was really interesting saying that we are real time watching capitalism die. And, and his explanation for that is because the model is getting upended because of what AI is doing. You know, it's always been the harder you work, the better are you are at your job, the more money you make, the more customers. He goes, but we're fleeing from those positions and we're replacing that with automation and AI. And because of that, it kind of disrupts how the, the whole capitalist philosophy. And he goes, and nobody is having this conversation. No one's talking about like, what do we do when it no longer looks the same that it has looked for us?

Starting point is 00:33:40 What vacuum are you creating for something else? Well, it's still, okay. So capitalism is a, is a kind of a political term. It represents like markets, right? More free market type societies. Um, in markets have always moved towards innovation. That's the goal. That was the goal.

Starting point is 00:33:54 The goal was that more innovative, more efficient, uh, succeeds, less innovative, less efficient fails. And so we continue to become, we continue to progress, products get cheaper, we get better services, we get more of what we want necessarily not necessarily a good thing, of course, because we don't always know what we need. But still, that's just what markets do. So AI is a result of that AI will enter into markets. And if markets are still open, then we'll figure out and solve

Starting point is 00:34:23 problems based on that. The problem I don't think is going to be that we're not working. I think the problem is going to be like, oh, I have everything I want without that. It's not even that we're not working. You're going to have AI to solve what free markets look like. The mathematical capabilities going to compute that will be instantaneous. Well, hold on. This is totally, I know what you're saying now. This is totally different.

Starting point is 00:34:42 So in markets, it's about supplying demand. And those dollars, those signals will buy signals, dictate price. what you're saying now. This is totally different. So in markets, it's about supplying demand. And those dollars, those signals was by signals dictate price. Now you may have an AI that can read markets in real time and adjust so fast. Wow. And you can literally go to buy a product and watch the price adjust. And the truth is the four or five biggest companies that get there first are going to have are going to be a monopoly in a sense because they will have built.

Starting point is 00:35:07 So what you see Google doing, what Elon's doing, what Facebook is doing, they're all building their own kind of AI models and tools. And the first one to probably get there with their, their size and magnitude will now have the ability to, like you said, real time adjust the market instead of allowing the market to unfold, competition to come in because there's a gap because they're not servicing the market correctly. Well, that gets, there will always be servicing the market because they'll be able to read the signs instantly. And so it's just like, and I don't know what you call this, but it's not true pure capitalism anymore

Starting point is 00:35:36 because of- It's still reading the signs of supply and demand. It's just faster. It would just be much faster. Faster than human could possibly do it. Yeah, faster than markets could do it for sure. Right, that's faster than humans. The reason why markets outcompeted, you know, non-markets or like socialism or centralized markets, because centralized markets did a lot of guessing. They'd have to guess what the right price would be based off of the labor and based off of,

Starting point is 00:36:00 so they would do surveys, they'd have people go out, and it just turned into a ton of waste. You had fields of wheat rotting in the Soviet Union, for example, cause they couldn't become efficient. Whereas markets are very efficient, but I could see how AI, if it was connected to everything, of course. I mean, the beautiful thing about the free market, the way it stands right now is, and you make this point all the time when someone talks about a company,

Starting point is 00:36:19 oh, that's terrible. They're doing this. It's like, that's okay. Because they can keep doing terrible business. It pisses off enough people for long enough. It opens the door for somebody else to fill that gap, offer a service that is either complimentary, competitive to, or cheaper than that person. But if you're, if you've already gained market share and you have this AI capability to pivot

Starting point is 00:36:39 and move as fast as the market signs, well, how does anyone ever compete? Like here comes a competitor. Boom. We just adjusted. We adjusted. Yeah. I don't know. Interesting conversation.

Starting point is 00:36:50 Not one that I even thought about. And I hadn't heard anybody propose it. He's like, listen, he goes, he goes, if John Adams and Karl Marx were alive right now, this would be a heated debate between the two of them because they, but you would, they would be going so far. Marx is lost, but we'll see. He has. And I, and I definitely believe he's lost.

Starting point is 00:37:05 And I think for the, but one of the things that Weinstein brings up that I think is interesting, an interesting argument is that for the first time in our lifetime for sure. So what this reminds me of is when the railroads were being built across America, people who owned the railroads had so much incredible power and they became the first massive

Starting point is 00:37:25 tycoons into the point where, and they weren't a full monopoly. That's not true, but it was, I mean, you know, some of these guys had so much power of money that people were afraid. Like, oh, they could literally dictate prices of good. There's nothing we could do about it. I mean, doesn't that kind of feel like that when you, like, I mean, I've even heard the fear in you when you talk about our business and you're just like,

Starting point is 00:37:44 I don't want us to do this because YouTube could shut us down here. I mean, there's a little bit of that fear already starting to surface within companies like ours because it's like, man, they hold so much power and it is a, it's a personally owned platform. They could just shut us down or make our lives incredibly miserable tough. At what point is innovation just like Is it not helping anymore? I mean like at what point we're like, okay We've been innovated enough like maybe we don't need to continue to innovate

Starting point is 00:38:12 It's when we realized that the purpose was found in the hard work. Mm-hmm. We haven't come there yet No, we still we still are we're still searching for Easier less work less struggle less days of work, less time working. Faster food, faster food. Faster, everything. Are we going to find, are there going to be video games in the future that are immersive where you go in, your VR and you build houses? I mean, I mean.

Starting point is 00:38:34 You're like, work? Oh, I feel so much better. Yeah. Can't you see that when we're trying to colonize Mars? Yeah. You know, and then having all of the 3D printed like materials and everything already there. How long do you think Justin before when we go colonize Mars before Mars declares independence from Earth? Because that's gonna happen.

Starting point is 00:38:51 Oh yeah, for sure. Well that's why I'm like interested to see if like if obviously like that's kind of the drive because we're so driven by purpose like what if our purpose is then to get to expand and then go elsewhere start another civilization on Mars. That's gonna take a lot of work. It will. But let's just say like Mars at some point, the people over there are gonna be like, I can take over for Earth. Yeah. Yeah. Screw you. Yeah. We're the Clary

Starting point is 00:39:13 Independence. It's like America part two. Yeah. I could see that happening. Adam, you had some other data that you were gonna bring up a bunch of times. I see the note. I want to know what you're talking about women talking versus men talking. I saw this, I saw this stat and thought, and now the guys can double check maybe Andrew duck and double check my numbers. Did you guys know that on average, um, men talk significantly less than women do every single day?

Starting point is 00:39:41 Yeah. Wait, why are you talking about that? How do we laugh because of it. But like a lot, like so the average man uses once and we kind of shut down after that. It's something like there's an actual number. It is. It's 5,000 to 15,000. Wow. One third.

Starting point is 00:40:00 One third. So I got, I really, it's in the storytelling. I mean, that's part of it. Like a lot of that could be cut and condensed. So give me the facts. This is, I found this really interesting too, because I consider myself an extrovert. But if you saw me at my home, you would not think that.

Starting point is 00:40:18 I am such a different person inside of me. I wonder if you talk more than Katrina does though, daily. Well, we have a podcast that kind of doesn't count. But if you were just in a normal regular, I bet she would. You think she still talks more than you? Ask her. I don't, I mean, cause she's always.

Starting point is 00:40:29 She's always pulling the conversation out of me. I'm an outlier. I think I'm more like. You are an outlier. You are like a stereotype walking. You're like two chicks. You know what I'm saying? I like just grunt at home.

Starting point is 00:40:46 I mean, are you guys like, I mean, how are you, Doug? And how are you, Justin? Like, when I, when I go home, I'm a bit, the average person would think I'm introverted at home. I don't talk a lot. Yeah. I, uh, I talk a lot all the time, but I know I'm an outlier. You know what's interesting about that? So it's funny is that you find my stat to confirm. Well, I'm seeing conflictinglier. You know what's interesting about that, so it's funny is that Did you find my stat to confirm what my number is?

Starting point is 00:41:06 Well, I'm seeing conflicting information here. Oh, let's see what you're saying. So there's another study that said that is largely the same. Women just slightly ahead. Women 16,215 words a day and men 15,669. Oh, no, I don't believe that. The number I got was three times. I almost feel like it's a stupid study People know this come on if you're a man or woman, you know this

Starting point is 00:41:28 Yeah, I mean, okay. I mean, you know this like women they do communicate more They communicate about more things they connect differently than men do okay. Let me here's your here's your evidence right there They're better with details. Yeah, here's your evidence right here Justin you and I are in a car. So you got right here, he's got 20,000 and 13,000. You Andrew? Yeah, I see that too. Yeah. Researchers find 30% more FOX P2 in the brain of girls. This protein is a key molecule for communication in mammals. We lack something to break. Hey, so here's your test. Justin and I, we're in the car and we're driving somewhere three hours away. And we're driving there and nobody says a word for most of the trip. Super comfortable.

Starting point is 00:42:12 Yeah, you don't think yourself like, oh, he's mad at me. Oh, no, I thought I did. That's totally normal. No. We're just driving. You hungry? No. Okay, let's keep going.

Starting point is 00:42:21 Just cruise. Yeah, actually, you know, that just, you asked the question about me or Katrina for sure, because I now, like, one of the things that get you asked the question about me or Katrina for sure because I'd now like wouldn't things like get frustrated It's like I actually don't like a time I want to listen to my music Oh, and she's always turning down to talk to me about something like I can't get through a full song She turns it down like I'm gonna go in and I'm like yeah,, I'm feeling like 30 seconds into my, I'm vibing right. And then, yeah, hey, you know, tomorrow, when we get in the, you know, in the first couple,

Starting point is 00:42:51 I just like, just been in prayer. But after a while, I'm like, I just don't think we're going to get through this playlist. You know what I'm saying? I think I'm going to hear a whole song. You know, it's funny. So yeah, definitely she's hot. I forgot what I was watching with Jessica,

Starting point is 00:43:01 but there was like men and women and, and I was laughing at how the women were communicating versus the men. She's like, yeah, guys are, and women will say this about guys jokingly. That were like just basic, you know what I mean? They were just kind of basic or whatever. And we'll, and we'll make jokes. So I think the word simple, simple, simple. And it's, I think it's, I think it's true.

Starting point is 00:43:18 Who was it that we were talking to? Oh, there was that, uh, years ago on the podcast, we had the transgender athlete on. And she was, went from female to male. And she said, she started taking male doses to testosterone. She's like, yeah, I felt my wide kaleidoscope of emotions compressed down into like four emotions. I'm like, oh no. Sorry, objectifying everybody.

Starting point is 00:43:39 That's what it's like. I think she did say that. She admitted that. Yeah, I was like, this is great. A bunch of guerrillas walking around. It's hard to control. There's a few of us that invent things. I like it when guys point to that to, like, they'll get,

Starting point is 00:43:54 online you see us all the time, like, you know, men and women argue. It's just stupid, I hate this, but I also find it comical when dudes on there are like, you know, men invent blah, blah, blah, men do this, men, I'm like, like you don't Just cuz Elon Musk doesn't mean Just cuz you're the same you both have a dick This is a man. Yeah, you know we invented brother. No, bro. There's a Organify has a sleep product and you guys haven't tried it yet? I have. Dude, everybody right now, huh? Yes, yes.

Starting point is 00:44:26 A lot of people come out. I like it. I like their sleep product. I have not tried it. I haven't seen it. It's got botanicals in there that are good to kind of relax the body, chill you out. It's a really good product.

Starting point is 00:44:37 Okay, so how does it compare to, because you would normally use their, like, you know, I think their old, yeah, Gold Juice. Oh, oh, you can take them both. Oh yeah. So their sleep, their sleep formula is more for occasional nights of restlessness. It's not something to use every night. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 00:44:52 It's pretty strong. Oh, their gold juice is at every single night and you're totally fine. So, but what, what is in it that makes it? Oh, there's, there's herbs in there, like valerian and stuff that really put you. I mean, they're like sedatives. Oh yeah. So you'll feel, you know, chill. Really good product.

Starting point is 00:45:07 We have so many of these companies that we work with that have different sleep products. It would be fun to do like, take them all at the same time. Well, no, no, no. I want to wake you up in the morning. Please don't take that advice from sour. Don't do that. No, it'd be interesting to like, uh, you know, a block of, of Ned, a, a block of, you know what I'm saying? A block of Legion, a block of Organifi and report back the types of sleep, track our stuff.

Starting point is 00:45:30 I mean, we have all the people should try different things because everybody, people who have chemistry, correct. So someone might have sleep issues because they need, they lack a certain nutrient or somebody else is just generally more anxious. The pull up the ingredients. Doug, is it, is it a gummies or is it? No, it's a powder. Yeah. So, uh, passionflower, Valerian root is in there. Uh, chamomile, chamomile's in there lavender lavender.

Starting point is 00:45:57 So these are all, those are all like, yes. Traditional herbs that you take for anxiety. So if the reason why you don't sleep is because you physically feel anxious, this product will do really well for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I like this. See, what's in, you know, okay, so Sal, why would you, I guess you could, I guess you could be getting enough magnesium but still having a hard time. So yeah, that was such a game changer for me was not because you lacked it. I know because I

Starting point is 00:46:23 was deficient in it. And so that magnesium became like a huge sleep. So this one for me puts it was really nice. I've used it now a few nights. It feels real nice. Yeah, speaking of which was sleep. You measured your sleep quality without with them without THC. Why do you gotta bring that up? Huh? Why are you gonna bring that up? What do you mean? What do you want to put me on blast? No, I'm talking about your shit. What are you going to bring that up? What do you mean? What do you want to put me on blast? No, I'm not talking about your shit. No, what are you talking about? Hey, it's good.

Starting point is 00:46:48 Well, because I'm still wrestling with it. That's why, because I have this. It's the deep sleep. Yes. Because here's the challenge that I'm having is that, so I went on that, I don't know how long it was. It was like two months, right? Where I went completely cannabis free.

Starting point is 00:47:01 And one of the things I struggled with was good sleep. It was like, I didn't feel, and this is actually perceived, right? Even though my, my, my ratings weren't very good either, but there was other things for me to, to probably tease out and test. And then I, then I started doing the three, two, one method. The last, this was last week. And I'd noticed I started improving my sleep score. And then, then what I hadn't teased out is like, okay, now that I'm, I'm

Starting point is 00:47:23 making a conscious effort to eat three hours before, drink only two hours, right? No other drugs, one hour. Yeah, being really, being really stinging on that or better, right? Let me pull the cannabis out and see if I can still get a good night. And really what it was more like for me to see was, could I get as good of a sleep

Starting point is 00:47:41 because I had already tested no cannabis and felt like I didn't get good sleep? So what happened, also leading up to that, remember you were in here talking to Doug and you guys were talking about how your deep sleep was so poorly affected. Right. And then I think I said it then,

Starting point is 00:47:52 I said, I wonder if it's the THC affects deep sleep every time. Right. And so what I was finding on my worrying was, I was eight hours of sleep, over eight hours of sleep some nights, but then for some reason I was getting like 10 minutes or less of deep sleep. And that was when you made the point about the THC and I'm like, okay, let me pull that out.

Starting point is 00:48:12 Let me see that. And the first time I did that, I got almost two hours of deep sleep throughout the gates and it was the best sleep score I've got. But I didn't feel that way, which is a fucked up thing was I, well, I didn't wake up better or didn't feel like I got better nights rest. In fact, I actually told Katrina, I was like, man, I felt like a little restless.

Starting point is 00:48:33 And according to my restlessness, I was a little bit up on restlessness, but I did get the deep sleep. And I know the deep sleep and REM sleep are more important anyways. So I'm like- You know, alcohol does that too. Alcohol, people will fall asleep,

Starting point is 00:48:44 but you get no deep sleep. It's really interesting. Well, I also, so there's another thing I haven't tested because I really enjoy cannabis at night is really pushing back earlier time of having my cannabis because what I noticed was when I was getting my deep sleep, so deep sleep, and Doug was the one that was like schooling me on this, I was not aware that deep sleep was like the first bit

Starting point is 00:49:05 of your sleep cycle. Cause on my Oro ring, my deep sleep always came at the end. Maybe when the TAC is wearing off. That's exactly what's happening. So TAC wears off, which is also what I would dream and stuff. If I dream, it's after I've got up to the bathroom two or three times and then it's the back half of the night after it's already wore off for four or five, six hours.

Starting point is 00:49:24 And so what I haven't tried yet, which I will mess with is, okay, what if I have, you know, if I, if I do want to have cannabis, maybe I smoke at five or six. And the problem with that is in the families up and stuff. And I wouldn't want to do that. I don't like to be like that. That's why I've been like that, you know, so. You might have to just stop.

Starting point is 00:49:39 So yeah, no, I did that. I did that already. You know what? It takes, I almost completely stopped and it took me two or three months, I think, to finally be totally out of the, what may be perceived as mild withdrawal. Took a little while.

Starting point is 00:49:57 Yeah, I didn't really feel like I had any withdrawal. I just felt like I missed it and I felt like I had better sleep with it than without it. That's how I felt. I'm sensitive. That's the thing. Yeah, I know. I had better sleep with it than without it. That's how I felt. I'm sensitive. Whoa. That's the thing. Oh, yeah. I know I haven't completely solved it yet.

Starting point is 00:50:08 I mean, I'm trying to find a way to have, have my cake and eat it too. Right. I want to be able to enjoy that. That's the problem with a lot of sleep products is they don't improve the quality of your sleep. Oftentimes they just make you fall asleep. Yeah. Which I guess is better than not falling asleep.

Starting point is 00:50:23 Well, yeah. If you're somebody who has a really hard time falling asleep, that, which I was before, before the magnesium thing, before I, before mellows kind of saved me on that, that I used to have a hard time falling asleep. I've now solved that. Like I know, and what not to do too. Like I obviously eating right before or being on my phone or something like

Starting point is 00:50:38 that is not a good recipe or talking about business. But if I don't do the, the main offenders, I take my magnesium, I'm good, I'm going to sleep. But I have had a hard time getting into my deep sleep and cannabis is probably the main culprit of that. That's the most consistent thing they show in studies. Is it helps people fall asleep, but it reduces their deep sleep? Yeah, it'd be interesting to see.

Starting point is 00:50:58 I wonder what the effects would be on the brain. I would love to see how detrimental that is to me. That would be another motivating factor. If I'm always getting eight hours of sleep, but I'm missing two hours of REM sleep, or deep sleep, excuse me. That would be- That's weird.

Starting point is 00:51:12 And I wonder how often that is. Like, I can't be the only person that is. What are the benefits of deep sleep? Do you remember? It says it's restorative for the body. For example, REM sleep is restorative for the mind. So for example, you build muscle during deep sleep and that type of thing.

Starting point is 00:51:27 So why do you remember? You're gonna build more muscle, bro. No, no, I was like, I would for sure be more buffed in salt right now if I was just kidding. That's true. I mean, don't doubt that for a second. That's his only leg up on me right now

Starting point is 00:51:36 is he's getting all the deep sleep. I'm getting hella deep sleep. He's getting hella deep sleep. But I'll get the same deep sleep. I'll be twice as big as he is right now. So, that's the secret. That's it right there. Hey, speaking of the companies that we work with and stuff.

Starting point is 00:51:47 So in Terra's, uh, fallotin, right? Their, their hair product that regrows hair, peptides in it. And it works. It definitely works. It's made my hair darker. I was thinning. It definitely stopped it, started to reverse it slowly. But you guys know what a derma roller is.

Starting point is 00:52:01 That's really a little needle's E-roll. Yeah. Okay. So you know what that is. Yeah. Yeah. So it stimulates hair growth to do that by itself. Yeah, by itself. And then if you do it with that, probably a huge, but it's stuff you're looking at a derma roller, it's a bunch of

Starting point is 00:52:10 needles. So they did some ladies do on their face. Oh, why would ladies do it? Oh, right. Because it like the collagen production. That's exactly what it does. Oh, it breaks down. It breaks up the so if I cause little punctures and the skin heals and they look all red and you know after them, but then it heals up So you using a derma roller. I haven't used that with the fallotin I'm gonna start doing that. So if if I was insecure about my bald head Mm-hmm I would do the derma roller with the anterra with the red light to me. Oh, wow I would if I really cared I don't care. I wish I wish I cared so for the audience I could go do it and I could be like see look it

Starting point is 00:52:46 But I don't care the same but I know there's a lot of you better You don't there's a lot of people that really do a lot way more than I thought I didn't realize what a big What a big deal that is and so if you had the ability to afford a red light to be able to afford Enter and you can do all those things and the derma which is oh you'll see a big difference That would be the hack the hack would be to do thea role, do the entera and do the red light. The combination of all those, but my family members that use the fall center are now like, oh yeah, I've reordered it. It works really well.

Starting point is 00:53:13 Yeah. I mean, if you're Jesse from full house and you went bald, that's your whole identity dude. Bro, you'd definitely be on the entire one in the 90s. That's for all my 80s. I had, you ever seen somebody after they've gotten a hair transplant? Have you ever seen them right after? Yeah, like doll hair.

Starting point is 00:53:31 No, no, no, no, no. I don't mean the hair itself. They actually do a pretty good job now. I mean, like when they're done with surgery and what their head looks like. And they have to go swollen. You'll never, you would never, and I saw a friend of mine, he got it, took a picture, bro. He looked like, like a mushroom. Swollen and just I'm like, of mine. He got it took a picture, bro He looked like like a mushroom

Starting point is 00:53:46 Swollen and just Yeah, oh Bro, like what do you do? How do you sleep like it's nasty? Yeah, no wonder I wonder why a why I don't care more. I feel like I do rich. Is that why? So more than you make less you care Is that why? I don't think so. I think that's it. I think so. I think you're doing it. So far that hasn't sold us. The more money you make, the less you care about your hair. I don't know. I think when I was younger, I thought

Starting point is 00:54:11 that was going to solve all kinds of problems. You get a shitty queue of feet. We both had terrible teeth. And they didn't work. That's different. That's different. Bald's head's not the same. Bald's head used to be in style.

Starting point is 00:54:21 It's very distinctive. Men used to shave their heads. They used to also powder their veins. I got Saraias spots on it. I got a fucked up head too. I should really... You just know how to rock what you got. It's not that bad.

Starting point is 00:54:31 It's just so... I don't know. I think you feel that like it's like confidently rock it. You're like, yeah, let's do it. I got you fooled even. Shave my head. I must stop using Faulted. Yeah, when we first started talking about that,

Starting point is 00:54:42 I remember that was like, I think I got more DMs on that than almost anything else. I could see though, there's some, I know people who in their twenties started to go ball. That's when it sucks when you're that young. Yeah. One of my best friend ball actually two of my best friends. One of my best friends started to go. Dude, that's the key. If you're a dude and you're young and you start to go ball, bro, that's the key to be just

Starting point is 00:55:01 get jacked. The answer to be being ugly. I don't understand. If you're ugly, you got a body on you. Yeah, you got even be a lot of it. Yeah, if you're ugly, that's if you get ripped. You can work on that. Look, that's genetics, right? Your hair is genetics. Fallen tends to good product, but a lot of it's genetic, right? So genetics.

Starting point is 00:55:17 But there's two things you can do that'll just take, like whatever points you lose with that, like get Jack and make money. You get work towards that. Maps in a box. Nobody cares. It's a perfect commercial. Maps. It's a perfect commercial. Map. It's the one right there.

Starting point is 00:55:27 It's just waiting to happen. Throw you ugly people. Maps and a ball. M's and a ball. Change your life. Maps and a ball. Advanced are both on sale. So all the guys out there.

Starting point is 00:55:35 Both of those programs. If you're on those programs. Get on those. Jeez. You'll get girls. Who's the shout out for tonight? I have a shout out. I'm going to shout out Joe Rogan because he needs it. No, what?

Starting point is 00:55:45 Yeah. Like he needs any more listeners. No, the Cat Williams interview with Joe Rogan. Did you finish? Oh, I just started out. I see only Joe Rogan I've ever listened to from beginning to end. It does help. So does he just talk about a bunch of stuff that makes you think like, what the hell?

Starting point is 00:55:58 I, you know, isn't he like revealing a bunch of like behind the scenes? I don't even know if I'd say that. It just, you know what? I guess so I listen to cat. I've been listening to Cat Williams since like his very first. I don't even know if I'd say that. It just, you know what? I guess, so I listened to Kat. I've been listening to Kat Williams since like his very first. He's just an interesting guy. I've always, I shouldn't say always. I don't like his newer stuff.

Starting point is 00:56:11 I liked his old standup. I thought he was hilarious. I had no idea how intelligent he was. Yeah, he's men so. Do you know that, do you know that he reads like 60 books a week? Wow. Every week. Wow.

Starting point is 00:56:22 Yes. On a normal week. Wait, we sit from like, what, nine to 12. He basically didn't go anywhere. Didn't celebrate anything. Didn't hang out with friends. Like, he would just read, you know, eight, something bucks a day or something.

Starting point is 00:56:35 Wow. Yeah, he's like, I don't know. I guess I'm intrigued by his brilliance. Like, because you don't, if you watched this stand up and you didn't know. No, you don't think he's a. You don't think, I mean, he plays a character of a pimp. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:56:47 You know what I'm saying? And he, and he doesn't use any, like, he doesn't speak in, in, in, uh, you know, he doesn't give it away. You don't think, no, you would not know until you start asking him. And then, and then you could see how smart he is, even the way he communicates to Joe, like there's times when he's talking to him and he's real slow to answer because you could tell he's like He's thinking in layers of like how to explain or communicate to him. This is gonna come across Yeah, and his and he the stuff that he's read he's read all over the place all over everything you could think of

Starting point is 00:57:17 He brought the emerald tablets. I got so happy. I never heard that. I didn't even know Joe didn't know what that was I don't know how it was it's It's so it's the Egyptian God Thoth. So it's these emerald tablets that it's like, I'm not going to say a lot about it. Like you should go like check it out and read it. Like so you would definitely get into it. Yeah. Just like it's a really interesting read. Okay.

Starting point is 00:57:39 Start with that conversation. Yeah. You'll enjoy the conversations. It's a great, it's a great, and they get it a little bit of God and religion talk with Joe, which I thought was interesting because you know Joe's where he's at with that. And so it was interesting to watch Kat and him go back

Starting point is 00:57:54 and forth on that. And I thought it was, I don't ever listen to Joe from that, the whole thing. That was the first like whole job. But then again, I'm, You're the third person that's told me to listen to that. It just, it was interesting conversation. I'll check it out.

Starting point is 00:58:06 Super interesting. Paleo Valley makes the best meat sticks you'll find anywhere in the world. These are grass fed. They're not dry. They're delicious. They're good for your body. They're good for your gut. It's grass fed beef. It's the best on the go snack. Go check them out. Go to paleo valley.com forward slash

Starting point is 00:58:23 mine pump. And on that link, you'll get an automatic 15% off. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Sarah from Canada. Hey Sarah, how can we help you? Hi guys. Thanks for your question. I'm good. Thanks. I wanted to start off by saying honestly a huge thank you through your podcast and your messaging. Honestly, so many of my long-term prayer requests have been answered. So it's been a really important role in my life, and I really can't thank you guys enough. Oh, thank you so much.

Starting point is 00:58:55 What can we do for you? All right. So I'll just start by reading my question. So about a year and a half ago, my husband and I bought the RGB super bundle and we completed the aesthetic program last week. We wanted to go back to anabolic to kind of see our strength gains and honestly, the strength gains were crazy. I mean, my husband, he's been weightlifting for 12 years and his PRs were like through the rigor, which made me really excited because I was the

Starting point is 00:59:23 one that convinced him to buy this program. So it is a win-win for both of us. This is a lesson he will continue to learn in America. There you go. However, transitioning back to the anabolic program has presented challenges for me, particularly in this first phase, which emphasized the low rep with high weight. I find myself hesitant to increase the weight on the squat rack, particularly in this first phase, which emphasized the low rep with high weight. I find myself hesitant to increase the weight

Starting point is 00:59:47 on the squat rack, mainly due to fear and a lack of confidence. And I struggled to maintain my grip for an effective deadlift. So my goal for March is to bulk before entering a cutting phase for the summer. Mentally, I find it difficult to commit to a bulk when I feel unsure that I'm stimulating growth in my lower body. I feel like I can lift heavier, but the fear

Starting point is 01:00:10 of the weight and if I'm being honest, tight hip flexors are holding me back. I know that I want to improve my squat and deadlift, but at this stage, focusing on them right now as technical skills seems counterproductive to my goal of maximizing strength during this bulking phase. Instead, I want to prioritize strength development now and reserve the skill development for summer. So my question is, do you have a program or any recommendation that will allow me to effectively target my lower body without having to put maximal effort in squatting and deadlifting? I'm eager to make the most of this bulking phase and don't want these problems to hold me back. Yes, we do. We have map symmetry would be amazing for

Starting point is 01:00:54 you, especially since you followed the core programs, anabolic aesthetic, performance and aesthetic. But I do want to go back. Let's get a little bit more specific. Yeah, I have some advice for you. Let's get a little bit more specific. Yeah, I have some advice for you. Let's talk about the problems that are preventing you or making you not want to focus so much on the deadlifting squat. So you mentioned grip and then fear. Those are the two that's basically it, right? Those are the two that we're talking about. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, so for deadlifting, it's grip for squatting, it's fear. And then also, I do think I have like tight hip flexors.

Starting point is 01:01:26 My husband actually bought me the hip mod for Valentine's Day. So I'm hoping to do that. But yeah, mainly fear. Fear is a big one. And then just feeling tight, tightness in my hips. Okay, so let's start with the deadlift. Are you using or have you played with an alternate grip or a hook grip and using chalk? Have you played with those things? Okay. Chalk, no, but alternating grip. Chalk will make a big difference. Chalk typically you can lift anywhere between you know, 10 to 20 more pounds

Starting point is 01:01:59 for some people with chalk. So I would use chalk. Do you go to a gym or do you work out at home? We go to a gym, yeah. So you could buy liquid chalk because most gyms, they don't like powder chalk, but you could buy liquid chalk and it's actually quite effective. So I would give that a shot. And then you can also add a set or two after, let's say a bicep workout or at the end of an arm workout, another workout, you could add a set or two of grip strengthening type exercises. So isometrics, you can, you're already getting that with the deadlift. So I wouldn't necessarily do more isometrics, but I would do more grip, like crushing type exercises. You could buy a gripper and do this. Now, I wouldn't do it to crazy fatigue because you will find that it'll,

Starting point is 01:02:45 it'll affect your grip in a negative way by overtraining it, but I would get a nice strong gripper and I would go moderate intensity and just do a few sets, you know, maybe twice a week and that should have some carry over to your grip. I have something, I actually have something for both the grip and the fear. Um, and the reason why this comes to mind so quickly for me is because I totally remember this almost exact conversation with Katrina and I remember her presenting

Starting point is 01:03:11 it very similar to how you did. And it was like, yeah, I just, uh, one, we were having a hard time with going up and wait with the, the deadlift, getting her getting over 200 pounds. That's where she, we started to notice that. And then just the fear of putting more weight on her back, even though when I watched her do the five reps, like at one, which was, she did, she had great forms, but yet just afraid to like, oh, what if I can't get it all the way up? And I said, listen,

Starting point is 01:03:33 give yourself permission to do singles, doubles or triples. And she's like, what do you mean? And I'm like, well, I know the program's laid out and we're telling you to get, you know, five, five reps, but there's nothing wrong with you putting too much weight on the bar and you actually only get two or three. Like that's fine. Like stop there.

Starting point is 01:03:51 If you feel like you can't get to five, stop it, rep two, rep three. But what will happen is just by getting over that fear of increasing the weight, you're like going heavier and then, Hey, I just stopped at one or I just stopped at two, your body will start to adapt to holding that much weight or putting that much weight on your back. And you'll one, help overcome the fear. And two, you'll see your grip strength go up because you're now holding more weight

Starting point is 01:04:14 than you've ever had before. Are you also, are you using a squat rack too with safeties? Yes, I am, yeah. Okay, here's what I want you to do. I want you to practice, because the fear is, uh-oh oh if I have to hit the safeties You know, what am I gonna do practice that? So get under a bar with your normal weight something you can handle Squat all the way down put it on the safeties get out get used to the feeling of oh my god

Starting point is 01:04:37 If I can't make it up I can just put it down on the safeties and you're totally fine It's a very, very safe way to fail on a rep is to put the weight down on the safeties. But you want to practice that because you've never done that before. It could be a bit terrifying. Like, oh, what am I going to do? So literally I would get clients and I would teach them. I taught my clients two things.

Starting point is 01:04:58 One, how to put the weight down on the safeties and feel like that's okay. And the question is, how do I know when to put the weight down on the safeties and feel like that's okay. And the question is how do I know when to put the weight down on the safeties? When you're struggling and you feel like your form is about to change. So don't wait until like you literally fail and have to drop the weight that could cause injury. But when you're pushing and you're like,

Starting point is 01:05:18 uh-oh, like I'm gonna have to tweak my form. Just put it down on the safeties. It's not a problem at all. The second thing I used to teach my clients was how to dump a barbell. But since you have safeties, you don't need to learn that skill or that technique. Now with the hip flexors,

Starting point is 01:05:33 sometimes it's also weak hip flexors that are causing the problem. So you might want to try this very simple movement where you lay flat on the floor with your body out flat, like you're totally straight out. And then with one leg, keep the other leg on the floor, just do some leg raises where you tap your heel on the floor and come back up and do a couple sets of that on each leg, not to fatigue, but enough to feel the hip flexor, then go squat. See if you notice the same tightness in your hip flexors and oftentimes that seems to handle the

Starting point is 01:06:05 problem. Yeah, kind of piggybacking on that in terms of the fear and like kind of setting yourself up with the squat. One thing that I actually did this with Courtney as well. So we basically would take a weight that she could normally do pretty easily like five reps or so. Then we racked the weight and I would add just, you know, five pounds on each side, then we kind of work our way up and she would just acclimate. So she would just like lift it off, step back, and then brace and go through all that, then go and re-rack it. Just stand. Just to stand just so you get used to the weight and you realize that, you know, you have control, you have strength, you, you can stabilize appropriately. And it just psychologically kind of gets you used to kind of placing that amount of load on your back.

Starting point is 01:06:54 Something we did very similar to that, Katrina and I did to get through it. So let's say you're, you know, you can get 180 for five and that's kind of where you, anything more than that, you get fearful. Let's say, I don't know if that's the exact number, but let's say what that's what it is. So then what I would do is like, Hey, today for maps and a bulk in this phase, like we're going to do something a little bit different. Like instead of just doing these kind of five by five or a three by five routine, I'm going to have you, we're just going to do the negative. So I would start her off, get to the 180 and then I go, okay, we're going to,

Starting point is 01:07:21 I'm going to put 200 on there. Now all I want you to do hunt is you're just going gonna slowly put it down on the, on the safeties. That's it. Like just put, that's, we're gonna do one rep. That's it. One rep of you just slowly setting it down. And then I go, how was that? She'd be like, actually, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Like, okay, cool. Then together we'd lift it back up, let her have some rest.

Starting point is 01:07:39 Then I put 210 on there. And then I go, okay, just let it slowly come down one time. That's it. Just one time, as slow as you could, set it, set it down like that. And how was that? Actually, not as bad as I thought it. Okay, let's go to 225. I just kept doing that with her for single reps. It's just get her comfortable with just feeling what decelerating with one or with heavier and heavier and heavier weight. And then I said, okay, and once I saw like, wow, she could literally do like 250 and be okay and comfortable. And I'm like, okay, we could do 220 and we'll get 220 on there. And we'll just, Hey, if you feel like you can't get out, just put it down.

Starting point is 01:08:12 And then, and then it was, then once we got past that fear, it was a lot better. But that's a way to do that as to, and again, it was like giving her permission. She always like, well, I thought I had to do five reps. I'm like, well, no, you don't have to do five reps. I mean, that's the programming. But when you're trying to get over this hurdle of adding more weight, just give yourself permission that maybe you'll only do five reps. I'm like, well, no, you don't have to do five reps. I mean, that's the programming, but when you're trying to get over this hurdle of adding more weight, just give yourself permission that maybe you'll only do one rep. And by the way, to this day, this is how I live.

Starting point is 01:08:33 Like there's many times where I decide like I'm going into a little, and I kind of want to push it. I want to put some heavy weight on there. And I get under there with the intent. I want to do five reps, but I quickly find out after rep one, like, oh shit, I'm not getting more than two or three of these. And then I just rewreck it right there. Yeah. So I got some good news to you, uh, 42 Sarah. First off, I want to ask you a question.

Starting point is 01:08:52 Do you have a previous injury that you're worried about re-injuring or something like that? Okay. There's two, generally two kinds of people that would come to me as clients, that would be afraid of going heavier because they don't feel confident under the weight. One of them was someone who had a terrible previous injury. Like I tore my ACL or I hurt my back. I'm really afraid of going heavy because of re-injuring it.

Starting point is 01:09:17 The other category was women, women generally, you typically don't see this with men. In fact, with men, it tends to be the opposite where I'd be like, that's way too much weight for you. But typically women would say to me, I'm afraid of going heavier. I'm afraid of going heavier. So what's the good news? The good news about this is once you get over this fear,

Starting point is 01:09:34 the most empowering feeling you're gonna get, that you're gonna feel through strength training is gonna, you're gonna feel. Like you're gonna feel so empowered that you can struggle under a weight and move it. And now imagine the carryover to everyday life. And this is just again, you still see this with, with men and women where men tend to be encouraged to

Starting point is 01:09:54 struggle under heavy objects. Women tend to be discouraged. Once you practice this in the gym and you get, you get used to it and you, and then you can really feel your capacity. That's what's empowering is you're underestimating your capacity because of the fear. You'll get a more accurate, uh, more accurate understanding of what your capacity is. And boy, is that empowering. It's going to feel amazing once you practice this and get used to it. And your body responds like never before.

Starting point is 01:10:17 Oh yeah. And then your results are going to be ridiculous. It's, it's, you unlock like a whole new level of training. So yeah, once you get that psychology down, so really it's ritualizing it. And you get over the fear, the more you practice all the stuff that we're talking about. Do you, do you, so symmetry, I think would be a good program though to go with. Um, do you have that? Cause we send that to you.

Starting point is 01:10:38 I don't have that. No. All right. Um, that'd be amazing. Yeah. We'll shoot that over to you. Yeah. Follow that one and then keep your eyes open for the one that's coming

Starting point is 01:10:46 after that. Cause I think that one's going to be even better. Hmm. Dose now. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's very mysterious. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:53 I don't know what's happening. Oh yeah. I just have one quick question. I hope that that's okay. Yeah, that's good. Go ahead, Sarah. I have like, so he got me the butt mod, the quad mod and the hip pain mod. Are those okay to do like on off days

Starting point is 01:11:11 or how do I incorporate them? So the mods, so the hip pain mod, you can do that, yes, that's correctional exercise. The butt mod or the other like body part mods, what you would do is you would replace the exercises in your program that target those areas with the mod programming. Now I will say this with map symmetry, don't use any of the mods. Yeah, just follow it. Follow map symmetry to a T.

Starting point is 01:11:36 If you're going to use the mod, do it when you go back through anabolic or when you go back through aesthetic or performance, but with symmetry, follow symmetry, don't, don't modify it. Okay. And is symmetry like, cause I am mentally preparing for a bulk for this last month before summer, is it okay to do that? Like, am I going to see results? Yeah. All of our programs are strength training base. So all of them would be appropriate in either a bulk or a cut.

Starting point is 01:12:04 What you'll find with symmetry, you're gonna build muscle, you're gonna build strength, but you're gonna build more of it in the areas that are unsymmetrical. So we've seen dexa scans, for example, with people who followed map symmetry and they'll gain five pounds of muscle. But then when they do the dexa scan,

Starting point is 01:12:20 they see like, oh wow, my left side was behind my right. And so most of the muscle gain was on the left side. So now things are more balanced. So you're going to notice that in your physique, but also in your performance. Uh, cause that's what the programs designed for. But yeah, it's a, it's a great program to follow in a bolt. Why don't we, why don't we have Doug put her in the forum too? So we, we can stay in touch with you as you go through this.

Starting point is 01:12:38 Cause we got a couple of, I feel like we gave you like five different things we're working on here. So I'll have Doug put you in the private forum. If you're, are you in there? You're not in there. Are you? No, I'll have Doug put you in the private forum. Are you in there? You're not in there, are you? No, I'm not. That would be amazing. Yeah, we'll put you in the private forum

Starting point is 01:12:49 and then as you're going through this process, you can just tag us and ask us any questions. Let's know. Yep. That's great. You got it. Awesome. Thank you guys.

Starting point is 01:12:57 I appreciate the help. Thank you. All right. Okay, what percentage of why? 27. Okay, cool. I'm glad you had that ready to go. That's awesome.

Starting point is 01:13:08 See how close I am. I don't know how you knew exactly what it was and asked. No, no, no, what percentage of wives started listening to Mind Pump because of husbands and what percentage of husbands started listening because of wives? I feel like it's a much higher percentage of husbands that started listening because of wives.

Starting point is 01:13:21 I hear that all the time. Oh, I definitely think that. I mean, think about it. A pot, a lot of our podcasts is giving direction. Is. So men are terrible at taking direction. So it's more way more likely that a wife found us and then has slowly convinced the husband. And I'd be willing to bet that that's like,

Starting point is 01:13:45 it's a 50-50 shot that can do it. Cause I think half the husbands would probably dramatically benefit from listening, but just in spite that my wife told me to listen to it, I'm not going to do it. I don't need that. I don't know what I'm doing. Who are these guys?

Starting point is 01:14:00 Yeah. Why are you listening to them? I'm sure we'll get some comments. Confirm if you're, if you are a wife listening and you've tried to get your husband to listen, how, how many of you have had the stubborn husband that refuses to, and how many of you guys have? It's cause then he looks at the picture and he sees Adam's face. He's like,

Starting point is 01:14:13 Oh, that's why. You know what she said though about fearing, like lifting heavier. Definitely. I mean, this is something that female clients used to talk about all the time, but boy, when they get over it, it is like they open a new door. It just feels amazing. This, I personally, I felt, um, tremendous value myself. Remember when we all first started hanging out, I had told you guys this.

Starting point is 01:14:38 So I've been, what I'd trained 10, 15 years before we all first started hanging out. And I had never trained singles, doubles or triples ever. Like, so that was a big like think step for me was just getting comfortable, like going like, oh, I can do three reps and actually get a good workout doing three reps and just giving myself that permission to do that low of a rep range. Obviously, if you know, you only got to get a couple, you're, you're like, oh, okay, well, if I do this much for five, I could easily do 20 more pounds for two or three Giving yourself that permission to do that allowed me to a different feel. Yeah

Starting point is 01:15:10 And then you get acclimated to feeling that kind of weight on there and now you're more confident with it going forward Our next caller is Alicia from Virginia. Alicia. How's it going? Wow, this is really cool So I'm sorry. We start stuck here and start off right now But Justin I wore my still emo shirt I'm love it. I am 37 years older than I still mash pit. So I thought you would appreciate that So and I will get a sandwich Actually out of my watch your warriors kind of beat up on the wizards

Starting point is 01:15:47 last night. I was at that game. Oh, you were there? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's a wizard stuck. I just I go to watch all the other teams. It is one minute. We like you. Yeah, we dumped Jordan pull on you. Oh, yeah. Big boys on that team, that's for sure.

Starting point is 01:16:07 So I'll get started and I'll read my question, but I wanted to thank you guys first for one episode in particular. I've been listening to you guys for probably like six or seven years now. But I think it was like this past fall when you had John Delaney on for the how to live a non-anxious life.

Starting point is 01:16:23 Like I, somebody that has struggled with anxiety since like before it was trendy to have anxiety. And I was, I finally like, I sent that episode to my husband who doesn't understand it. And it literally was like a pivotal turning point in our marriage because he finally could like understand all the things that I've always tried to say. So I'm really grateful for that.

Starting point is 01:16:44 Thank you. That's awesome. Love, John. So I will get into my question here. Basically, kind of the premise of it is that I've been competing in Olympic weightlifting now for about like six or seven years. I'm 37 years old, I've got three kids

Starting point is 01:17:00 and I'm ready to kind of like take a step back from competing for a little bit. I love my sport. I've been grateful that I'm ready to kind of like take a step back from competing for a little bit. I love my sport. I've been grateful that I'm good enough that I've been able to compete with kind of like the 18 to 25 year olds this entire time. And strength has always been something that's really important for me. Like back in the early 2000s when everybody wanted to look like Britney Spears, like I saw a China wrestle in the WWE and was like amazed at her arms and just wanted to be fit and strong.

Starting point is 01:17:28 And Olympic lifting has really allowed me to get to that level. But mom life is kind of like, it needs to step up and be more important. I want my kids to have their time to shine and stuff like that. And I just really don't have like the two plus hours a day to kind of keep training, to keep competing at like a national level. So my question kind of revolves around what do you think or would suggest would be the best way to kind of maintain the shrink that I've spent the last like 15, 16 years building

Starting point is 01:17:57 even when my volume and intensity isn't what it used to be because there's a lot of lifts that I've or a lot of numbers that I've hit, but I'm really proud of. And I'm understanding that, you know, some of those will come down or whatever. But like, I still want to be able to back squat three 15. And even if I'm not having such like high volume all the time. Yeah, great, great. Okay. So competed in Olympic lifting for six years or so.

Starting point is 01:18:22 Did you work out before that too? Yes, 15 15 years 15 total Yeah, yep Like I was that only girl that was in the weight room when I was in high school and stuff like that So like for 20 plus years, I've always always been straight training Alicia have you seen the data on how much training is required to maintain? Muscle and strength once you've built it is required to maintain muscle and strength once you've built it?

Starting point is 01:18:45 Uh, yeah. I've listened and I've listened to you guys kind of talk a lot about how like, it's like almost like a third of the training volume or so seven. Sometimes some studies show even less. It's seven. You would be shocked and surprised at how, how much strength you're going to maintain by training less, a lot less, like half as much. I bet you're going to be absolutely shocked at how, um, how well you respond.

Starting point is 01:19:09 In fact, you might actually feel better. Now there are benefits to training a lot. If you can handle it, which is just the time being there and you're being very present, especially for someone who has anxiety. I'm, I'm one of those people as well. So there's that that I'm, that's that that we're gonna carve aside. But in terms of like strength, performance, muscle, in particular, the muscle mass itself,

Starting point is 01:19:32 you won't lose it. You won't lose it by working out by going from two hours to one hour a day. What you would need to do with your training is prioritize effective lifts. The mistake that people make is they try to double the intensity to make up for the reduction in time and volume. Don't do that. Train like you normally would.

Starting point is 01:19:50 What you would do is just cut the volume in half or remove exercises that aren't as important and insert them every once in a while when you feel like you need to. And you're going to be, I'm surprised every time I do this at how well, not only do I maintain, but in fact, I, I oftentimes find myself progressing. And I realized, wow, I was actually training a little too much. So to go from like how, so you, you training two hours a day, what are you looking to do? Go down to one hour a day.

Starting point is 01:20:17 For the lesson. I think like right now that's probably like, I would like to get to a spot where it's like an hour a day, four times a week. I do do I do go to like yoga twice a week to maintain my mobility and stuff like that But it's just you know, I just I don't have the time For both long sessions to maintain at that high level. I'm okay. I'm totally okay with that. You're fine and Yeah, I see I see two really good options for you. Either one, a maps anabolic protocol, two to three times a week, that's it,

Starting point is 01:20:51 of training the full body, that type of routine, or a maps 15 advance, where you'd, so it would really depend on what you prefer. If like you like the idea of coming to the gym, you know, five, six days a week, well, then I would push you in the maps 15 direction. But if you're really trying to reduce the amount of time and that you're having to go to the gym, but yet still maintain everything you've built, then a

Starting point is 01:21:15 maps and a ball like two to three times a week, a full body. Yeah. Do you, are you going to still be doing your, your Olympic lifts or are you okay transitioning away from Olympic lifts and moving more towards like traditional strength training? Um, I would like to still be able to kind of like, you know sprinkle them in every so often because I mean it is It's really fun to like, you know hit a heavy clean and jerk and you know throw the barbell around and stuff like that But run a map. I'm okay stepping back run a maps 15 advanced protocol and then just supplement the Olympic lifts It's literally 30 minutes a day.

Starting point is 01:21:45 Uh, you're doing like two, maybe two compound lifts a day. You could replace one of them with a power with a Olympic lift. And I'll tell you, look, I'll tell you my personal story. I went from how I typically work out to this protocol and I hit a PR in dead lifts at 43 years old. So it's like, I thought, oh, at first I was like, wow, I'm not losing any muscle. This is amazing.

Starting point is 01:22:08 And then I was like, what the hell? Like I'm stronger, I'm getting stronger. This is remarkable. So I think you might be surprised. You've built such a solid base on your body that it would take you being completely sedentary and eating low calories for all that to go away. That shift in volume is probably really gonna benefit.

Starting point is 01:22:27 Yes. Yeah, like you're gonna know it's like an immediate strength output gain. It's gonna be crazy. This by far has been one of my favorite parts of aging. Like I didn't foresee this, that when I got into my 40s, that all this hard work that I've done for two decades of training, how much it would pay off as far as being able to maintain the strength and physique that I always, I mean, the amount of volume that I train at in comparison to 15 years ago is insane.

Starting point is 01:22:55 Yet I can maintain a better physique and more strength with way, way less work. And it's just, and it's a testament to all that hard work that you've done for all these years, especially considering you've done this in like Olympic lifting, like you didn't just lift for 15 years, like you lift at a high level. You've built a significant base that ain't going away. Yeah. You mean you squat in three 15, holy cow. You know, here's the other thing to consider with Olympic lifting.

Starting point is 01:23:20 Olympic lifting is a very special form of strength training in the sense that now all competitive strength training based sports, there's a high degree of technique and skill involved in the performance, but that is very, that's especially true for Olympic lifting. So the reason why, if you compare Olympic lifters to power lifters to, I don't care what other strength sport that competes and actually, you know, lifts, uh, type events, when you compare them, Olympic lifters tend to work out the most. And you wonder, why are they working out? Like Olympic lifters have been known to be in the gym for three hours or four hours. It's not the, it's not, it's not the strength and muscle stimulating effects that they're after. It's perfecting the technique.

Starting point is 01:24:04 It's, they're literally, you know, this you're practicing so that you can get just strength and muscle stimulating effects that thereafter, it's perfecting the technique. It's they're literally, you know this, you're practicing so that you can get just perfect with your lift because you know that perfection will add 15 pounds to the bar versus, you know, getting the muscles technically to be stronger or bigger. So you don't need, especially if you're not competing and you don't need to like have the absolute most perfect technique with your list. I mean, if you've been practicing

Starting point is 01:24:27 as long as you have, your techniques always gonna be pretty good. So long as you sprinkle them in, you might not be as perfect with your skill as you were before because you're not practicing them as much, but I think your skills gonna stay good. And as far as like the muscle and strength component, that's not going anywhere. Okay, yeah, it's like, it's one of those, I mean, as, as you guys know, like you spend all that time at Adam, you just said like building all of that and you're like, man, I really don't want to go to the, like have that go away at all. And, um, you know, and there's other things too, like, you know,

Starting point is 01:24:59 I'm really interested, you know, your physique when you're a strength-based athlete is very different than when you like transition to kind of more that bodybuilding Lifting for health type thing too. So like I'm just having all that information go away and bring up some of that time and stuff It is it is something I'm really looking forward to but it's just really cool to like let's really heavy I'm so selfish with it like I love going to the gym and stepping onto a machine like after a dude. And it's still the same way down there. So I just didn't really want to like have to like lose any of that. I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised on how much you're going to be

Starting point is 01:25:35 able to reduce and still be able to be that girl. Yep. Totally. You're going to still going to be able to get in there and drop that kind of way. And literally, and like Sal pointed out, you may be surprised. You actually might notice you reduced the volume significantly and you might see yourself get stronger, which is crazy to think because how strong you already are.

Starting point is 01:25:52 But I think you're going to see huge benefits from it. How often have you done like extensive hypertrophy training? Um, we kind of, we sprinkle it in all throughout, um, all throughout the year based on like what meets we're doing, but our hypertrophy training is more like that's a 10 back squats and you know, have your clean bowls and stuff like that. But I do usually actually, since you release, um, the, um, symmetry, usually I do that like after a competition for about four weeks to kind of correct some of those imbalances before we kind of get back into the next training cycle. So I do really, I love like the flow

Starting point is 01:26:29 of all of your programs and stuff like that. That's why I wanted to reach out to you guys about that. You know, Alicia, I saw something just occurred to me. So I like maps 15 advanced version. I think that would be a great staple program for you. But I do have a program that I think my scratch that competitive itch, that feel that you have from performing better maps, old time strength. I thought that too. It's just I bet you would.

Starting point is 01:26:54 I mean, you're not going to be two hours in the gym. It's not at all. You'll be in the gym an hour. But that I think that program, especially because you have the overhead stability already from Olympic lifting. I bet you're going to do those lifts and you're going to have to learn them at first. Uh, if you've never done like a band of chasers or hell out of you, but I think you're going to, you're going to love the hell out of it. And you're not going to be in the gym. It's worth giving it a whirl. Yeah. So yeah, I'm,

Starting point is 01:27:21 I would totally do that. Yeah. I love all that not like unconventional kind of training and stuff like that too. So that's, I didn't even think about the old time. Personally, yeah, that's a cool. Personally, I would like to see you do maps 15 first, just so you could see what potentially reducing that much volume of the industry right here.

Starting point is 01:27:39 I selflessly want to see her do old time. No, I wanna see. I think she would be doing some crazy shit. I think so too, but I also think that the desired outcome of this is to try and you're being trained around. And I think that just go through math 15 one time so you can just get your body responds. Yes.

Starting point is 01:27:55 And then go to all times. Then yeah, hit it. We'll send 15 over to you. Oh, cool. Thank you so much. Well, thank you. Thanks for calling in. Thank you. I appreciate it so much. You got it.

Starting point is 01:28:07 All right. Yeah, there's definitely part of me selfishly someone like that. I want to see you do old time. I know. Yeah, you do some crazy. No, background. Yeah. No, she would watch.

Starting point is 01:28:17 Great. And it's a great problem. I just I think that someone there because we've all been there ourselves needs to experience a dramatic reduction in volume to see like, You were being a trainer. I was being a, you know, but I mean, that might be the perfect thing is run through masterteen and then go through old time strength and she might, you know, find out. And also to the audience that's listening, like, you know, of course, like we talk about how we've, we've built these,

Starting point is 01:28:44 you know, structures, but encourage people to modify how we've, we've built these, you know, structures, but we encourage people to modify. And if I had a client like this, who was really proficient at Olympic lifting, I would just make it a, like we would have a day that's like, it's all she's doing is one Olympic lift, like just practicing the Olympic lift and that's a day. That's a lift, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:29:00 Those lifts are so incredible. And in the practicing of that and doing say five to 10 sets of it, like that's enough like volume for a day and she'll get turned especially with the base that she's built. Yes. Our next caller is Owen from Nebraska. What's up Owen? Going on Owen.

Starting point is 01:29:17 Hey, how's it going guys? Thanks for having me on. I appreciate all you've done for me and the rest of the community. Right on. Thank you, dude. You got for us. What's going on? I guess the summary of my question.

Starting point is 01:29:27 I am 21 years old. I'm six, three, about 200, 205 pounds. I've been consistently strength training for about two years. I trained in high school for sports and stuff, but I just didn't really see much progress. And when I was about three years ago, I was 180, 63, probably 20% body fat. Now I'm like 200 pounds, 16% body fat. This summer I went on a cut from 200 pounds

Starting point is 01:29:54 at 90% body fat down to 180 to 9% body fat. And that was the leanest I'd definitely ever been in my life. And then I started, after I got down to 180, I started tracking my calories. I was maintaining that body fat at 3700 calories and I'm now eating 4400 calories per day. My body fat has gone up about 7% since then. I currently train four times per week doing a max of 10 total working sets per session. And I guess for my day job as well, I'm a contractor.

Starting point is 01:30:24 So I am very active all day, every day. And I guess my main question is, why am I able to eat this much while putting on body fat? And still I never feel satiated. I eat 95% whole foods, and I feel like I could easily eat 6,000 calories per day. I played around with macros to like high protein, low protein, high fat, stuff like that.

Starting point is 01:30:43 And it just doesn't really seem to help much. I was just wondering what, what could be causing this or what my issue is. Yeah. The hunger part causing or the increase in body fat percentage cause you went from nine up to 16% Hold on, you're, you're what you're 6, 3, 2, 100. Well, how much you weigh right now?

Starting point is 01:30:59 2, 205. 205. 2, 05, 16% body fat's good. You're 21. You lift weights four days a week and you work construction. Yeah. Yeah, bro. You're a moose Yeah, I don't know what you want me to do for you My main question is like I just I feel like I could constantly eat like I'm always hungry Yeah, no matter how much I eat. I'm just I'm just always listen wait 20 years and then you'll get fat on the same Listen, you've got a great metabolism.

Starting point is 01:31:26 Your testosterone's probably really in a good place. Yeah. Do you feel strong in the gym? Oh yeah. Yeah. You're doing well, bro. The best, I mean, look, if you want to crush your appetite or bring it down, the best thing you could do, two things, one, work on the discipline of dealing with cravings. Okay, so that's an important one to deal with. Maybe not now, but maybe later, that'll come in handy,

Starting point is 01:31:51 because it seems like right now you can burn off almost everything you eat. But just kind of sit with the feeling. Sit with the feeling you've been doing. You've never done it 24 hours fast. There you go. Have you ever fasted before? Yeah, I guess my question was about,

Starting point is 01:32:03 that was about two months ago. I did intermittent fast, like at the beginning of the year for about a month and that has actually helped a little bit with it I definitely can't eat as much in one serving like I could eat like four thousand calories before and one serving of whole foods But now it's definitely a lot better than what it was, but yeah, let me get some I want to get some clarity around like what is it? You want yeah, like what are you concerned? Yeah, like what is like the ideal scenario for you? Obviously, I'm sure you want to be strong and fit and ripped, but it's like, are you wanting to be able to do that and not have to eat as much? Are you wanting to like what is your ideal goal?

Starting point is 01:32:37 Because I'm I guess basically just just not go to bed hungry. Like I just want to feel satiated. Like, yes, so that's pretty much it. OK, so we could also play with your macros a little bit. Like, I don't know how much you've manipulated getting more of your calories from like, from fats than getting it from carbohydrates. That tends to curb my appetite. Just recently I brought up on the show. Way back when we first started, the guys and I all took

Starting point is 01:33:04 turns kind of running through the ketogenic diet and sharing our experience. I did that in the height of my bodybuilding career. And so I was eating 5,000, 6,000 calories a day. And then I switched over to the ketogenic diet. And it just was, it was so hard for me to hit those calories. It was so satiating. Then I realized when I went back to eating kind of balanced, I didn't have the cravings

Starting point is 01:33:24 for carbohydrates anymore. Like so I didn't need as much carbs as I needed to feel satiated anymore. And so it made it a lot easier for me to like go to bed and not feel like I'm starving all the time and needed more guys comfortable only eating 150, 200 grams of carbs where I was eating 600 grams of carbs before that. So have you kind of played with running more of a high fat diet for a little while and then doing the opposite and seeing how you feel? Yeah, I've definitely done that.

Starting point is 01:33:50 I've done like as much as like 200, like 75 grams of protein per day or like even 100 or close to 200 grams of fat per day and like lower carbs or I've done high carbs, you know, stuff like that. I've done a lot of like fiber too. I've tried that, but I mean, it's helped a little bit, but it really, I don't know. Dr. Justin Marchegiani And then also to be aware of, I mean, I don't know how clean your diet is. I know you're saying whole foods, but also know you said you went from 9% to 16% body fat.

Starting point is 01:34:18 I doubt you did that just eating, you know, apples and chicken breasts. So pay attention to when you eat these foods that are designed to make you to eat more. And so if you're doing that, that makes a big difference than you loading up all the time on steak and rice and potatoes and stuff like that too. So have you connected those dots? Like, is it all the time that I feel this way? Or do I notice I do that when I have protein bars and shakes and eat,

Starting point is 01:34:45 you know, eat out and have you paid attention to that? Yeah, I pretty much like my main diet. I eat a lot of a lot of chicken, ground beef, steak, potatoes, rice. I that's pretty much what I eat all day every day, honestly. Yeah, you're a moose. Listen, here's what I want you to do. Eat 250 grams of protein a day from whole natural foods. Keep doing want you to do. Eat 250 grams of protein a day from whole natural foods. Keep doing what you're doing. Keep getting stronger, lifting weights. Here's the important part. Okay. Get comfortable with not feeling satiated.

Starting point is 01:35:15 This is actually going to carry over into the rest of your life as well, because life is not about feeling satiated all the time. Some hunger is necessary to push growth. And I don't just mean muscle growth. I mean personal growth as well. Now I wouldn't tell this to somebody who wasn't eating 4,400 calories a day or whatever and doing what you're doing. My conversation would be very different, but for a kid like you, I mean, you're on fire, you're crushing. There's plenty of food to go around, so you're not, you know, there's nobody starving because you're eating this much. I would say get comfortable with that feeling a little bit.

Starting point is 01:35:47 Sit with it, feel it. Don't try to always avoid it and get rid of it and keep doing what you're doing, bro. 16% body fat, your height and weight at your age, you're doing a phenomenal. Now I will say this, it's gonna change as you get older. I'm sure you've heard this before. You're 21.

Starting point is 01:36:02 When I was 21 years old, I couldn't, I, I, I mean, I'd have to eat so much food to gain a pound on the scale. It was like, I thought something was wrong. Maybe there was a hole in my body. I don't know what's going on. It doesn't, it's not like that anymore. That's for sure. So it will change, but I'll say eating as much as you are, if you feel good, you got good libido, good sleep, strengthen the gym is going up. You feel amazing. The only thing is you're just not feeling satiated.

Starting point is 01:36:27 I'd say just eat high protein and then get comfortable with that feeling. What program are you running? I kind of have my own program that I follow, I guess. Because there might be this. I just started doing like a full body. Otherwise I did more of like a, like a split, I guess. Okay. How many days a week are you training right now?

Starting point is 01:36:49 He said four. Four. Yeah. Maybe reduce the, I mean, you're already, Four. I just, I just switched over to three. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I would, I would move you to like a maps, anabolic type of protocol. And just see, I mean, there is the possibility too, that with all the activity, all the moving you're doing, and if you were training intensely for five, six days a week that your body is just trying to recover and you're not getting enough calories to do.

Starting point is 01:37:12 What do your lifts look like? What is your bench deadlift and squat look like to set a curiosity? Strength wise you mean? Yeah, strength. Uh, I haven't really maxed out. I really haven't maxed out in like a year, but I benched two 75 years ago and I squatted for 15 And I don't really deadlift a whole lot. Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna hang up. You're fine. Yeah You're doing good, bro. You just you just gonna have to deal a little bit

Starting point is 01:37:34 You have to deal a little bit with that feeling of Your body's trying to grow and build. I know you don't want to gain body fat, which is totally fine So this is more of a like, okay, you got to deal with the feeling a little bit, but you're crushing and you're so far away from your potential. You got another 10 years of muscle building ahead of you. So this will be exciting. This will be exciting to see.

Starting point is 01:37:54 And listen, here's the thing, don't worry about, it's not like you're gonna have to eat more and more and more and more to build more muscle. Your body will just get better at building muscle with less calories. This is what ends up happening. Doug, why don't you throw him MAPS anabolic so he has an actual, follow MAPS and a ball.

Starting point is 01:38:07 Do the advanced version of it or the three. Appreciate it, man. You got it, man. Keep kicking ass. I'll try my best, don't you worry. You got it, man. Thanks, Owen. How many listeners are mad right now?

Starting point is 01:38:23 Well, something doesn't add up for me. The fact that he, he claims that he's hungry all the time, which is a clear indicator that he's probably got a fast metabolism. Like we all assumed. But yet he was able to go from 9% to 16% body fat and claims it's all through whole foods. So, so it's a surplus, but he's saying he's still hungry in a surplus. Like that's a major surplus. I mean, if you went from nine to 16%, you added 7% body fat.

Starting point is 01:38:53 How long? We didn't ask him how long. I mean, even if it was over a year, I mean, 7% is a big jump sale. Which means you're eating in a massive surplus. And then claiming you'd have done that all in Whole Foods, it sounds like a like, uh, he says he maintains at 3,700 as what it says right there. Yeah. And he had an idea of what his grams and stuff were.

Starting point is 01:39:12 So it's like he was tracking. I don't know. Math isn't mathing. Yeah. Yeah. That's something that's not adding up to, I mean, here's what I remember being a 21 year old and training a lot of 21 year olds is that you think, you know, yes. Yeah. Cause you tracked one week. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You tracked one week or you somewhat pay attention.

Starting point is 01:39:30 Like, uh, those are some huge fluctuations that's really interesting feedback. You're not doing it to eat out. Yeah, there's some things that aren't fully adding up to me. I mean, nonetheless, advice still stays pretty much the same. Exactly. And you, and he is doing a good job. I mean, he's stronger than probably all of us.

Starting point is 01:39:49 250 grams of protein from whole foods and still being hungry. That is tough. Yeah. That is tough. Yeah. That's, and, and then also to simultaneously put on. That's five meals with 50 grams of protein each without counting carbs and fats. I mean, and yeah, and he said he switched over to more high protein, high fat.

Starting point is 01:40:07 And he's tried that. I mean, I, for me, it would be like loading too, like later, if it's a problem for him to sleep, you know, and that's something like, you know, loading, you know, the end of your day, a little bit more calorie wise to kind of help with that. But honestly, like he's just, he's just the inferno right now. I'm convinced he just wanted to tell us how much better he was. How awesome he is. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:40:26 Hey guys, I don't know what to do. The bar doesn't hold you more weight. I'm super handsome and I was like, Something's wrong. He's like, eat whatever I want. You know, it's a big problem. My Instagram handle by the way. All the chicks love me.

Starting point is 01:40:37 What do I do? What if it is a parasite? What if he didn't have a parasite or something? I don't know why I'm so hungry. The tapeworm in there is still getting strong and, you know, he's doing good. Our next color is Alan from Utah. Alan, what's happening?

Starting point is 01:40:51 What up, Alan? Hey guys, honored to be on the show with you guys. Thank you. Just a few things for you guys. A little bit of a backstory. About 10 months ago, since I posted my question, I was diagnosed with type two diabetes, which was a killer for me,

Starting point is 01:41:13 because I've got health anxiety, but A1C was 15.5, they said I maxed out the meter, which was insane. 29 years old, I was 325 pounds. And that's kind of how my health and fitness journey started. Was in football for a while in high school, but took a lot of time off and got into drugs and alcohol, which was like the downfall to everything,

Starting point is 01:41:39 but two years sober now. And then I got the diagnosis and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna either die or I'm gonna change my life so I found Dr. Jason Fung I'm not sure if you're familiar with him but he's a big fasting advocate so I got on a peptide and I started fasting I did seven-day water fast at first and then was doing 42 hour fast in between two meat eating meals a day. So I dropped 80 pounds in four or five months. But then I realized I was losing a heck of a lot of muscle with my body fat, right? So been going to the gym now consistently for two and a

Starting point is 01:42:18 half months, five days a week, but not really getting stronger. My bench press was 185, my deadlift I did a max of 115 but I just feel like I have body fat on my stomach and everywhere else and I feel like I'm at a plateau at about 215 and I've been stuck there for quite some time so I don't know if I have to go into a bulk to get the rest of that off, but I'm just scared because of my diabetes that I'm going to end up eating too much and lose control of my blood sugar. So that's kind of where I'm at. You need to reverse out, reduce the volume of training, focus on getting strong, make sure you hit your protein intake. Those are the key things right there. Don, did you, okay, so you're on terzsepati, right? The peptide, I just read in your question, you're on that.

Starting point is 01:43:06 Yeah, so it's, yeah, so I started the peptide at the beginning of my whole weight loss journey and used that with the fasting, which really helped. I mean, I was on 2.5 milligrams and it goes up in 2.5 increments up until 15 milligrams and I only got to 7.5. And this today is actually this week was the first time I've not taken it. So I was taking it for 10 months and now I've stopped because I feel like it's hindering my progress because I'm not able to eat 200

Starting point is 01:43:40 grams of protein a day on that, you know, it's tough. How, how, um, how is your type two diabetes now? How's your blood sugar? Is it a lot better? So, so I'll tell you guys this, um, with what I did in about three or four months, I got my A1C down to 5.3 and I'm completely off of all my diabetic medicine. Um, and to be honest with you guys, that my doctor told me that they have never seen anyone with an A1C that high and were able to get it down

Starting point is 01:44:12 that low so quickly. It was like a clinical record for my doctor's office. So not sure how that happened. I just put in a lot of work in that. But you know, now that I've done all the fasting I felt like my metabolism now is shit. Yeah. Yeah, and now I'm like damn man. I'm stuck I got the weight off. I don't have the muscle I want you're you're in a good Abilism is stuck. Here's why I like this is what you this is why you're gonna do well. We can yeah You sound very disciplined. Yeah, you did some shit that was very hard way harder than what we're about to say So you're very disciplined. So just than what we're about to say. So you're very disciplined.

Starting point is 01:44:46 So just follow what we're going to tell you right now. Hit your protein targets from whole natural foods, eat that first, uh, in every meal. So prioritize it and then follow a good strength training program, which we'll send you. We're going to send you maps, anabolic, follow the three day version, hit the high protein and you're going to be fine. The muscle building effects, as you build muscle through doing that, you're going to

Starting point is 01:45:10 see better and better blood sugar control because muscle is an, it's a storage vessel for sugar. It's storage, it stores glycogen and it's insulin sensitive. So just do that right there. Just follow maps metabolic, hit the protein targets, eat it first, eat in the morning, high protein, make sure what your morning, your first meal is a nice high protein meal and the rest will take care of itself. Yeah. And I also, I want to have Doug put you

Starting point is 01:45:34 in our private forum too. So we can keep an eye on you. The one thing that I would be concerned about is you making any sort of drastic pivots. So just do exactly what Sal said, get in the forum. And then I want you to check in with us at least once a month. Okay. If not every two weeks or so, check in, check in with us.

Starting point is 01:45:53 Let us know how you're feeling. Let us know how it's going. Uh, don't make any drastic changes from what he said without first, like, you know, telling us how what's going on. Now one, one thing I'll add is try to make fatty fish or fish a staple in your diet just because of the anti-inflammatory effects of the fatty acids. So sardines are great for that. Good quality salmon is good for that.

Starting point is 01:46:18 Um, so try to throw that in once a day if you can, or four days a week, just for the anti-inflammatory effects. There seems to be a connection between that and improving people's A1C and improving people's blood glucose or insulin sensitivity. So that's the only other thing I'd add, but if you just did that and as you start to get stronger, you're going to get a better response with all of your blood measurements. with all of your blood measurements. And do you guys think that I should be scared of carbohydrates as a, you know, even though I'm such a controlled diabetic,

Starting point is 01:46:52 I know it could be beneficial to my workouts, but would there be an optimal time to maybe digest those carbohydrates as a tie too? Yeah, around the workouts, but okay, so I'll give you a couple of pieces of advice that'll help with that. When you eat your meals, eat the protein first, eat the vegetables second, and then eat the carbohydrates third. So that'll help with potentially overeating carbohydrates.

Starting point is 01:47:13 The second thing is if you do a five to ten minute walk post-eating, that makes a significant difference in how much glucose your muscles and your body sucks up. So right after you eat, just go for like a five or 10 minute walk makes a big, makes a pretty big difference. And then the third thing I'll say is the larger carbohydrate meals, you could do one, you know, two hours before you work out

Starting point is 01:47:37 and then your post-workout meal. And that, that should also help. But other than that, I think you'll be, I think you'll be totally fine. I don't think you should fear carbs if you follow that order. Sweet, thanks guys. And I really appreciate that.

Starting point is 01:47:53 You got it, man. And congratulations on being sober, bro. Um, and I will say. Yeah, two years sober and I do appreciate you guys and you guys have brought up like and spoke about other things besides health and fitness and sobriety aspect and also you guys is like personal experiences with marijuana which is like the only thing that I Medical cannabis user and you guys have like really opened my eyes and like being able to focus on you know

Starting point is 01:48:19 being able to take a break and healthy breaks and and learning how to just focus on Balance of everything and you guys really help instill that in me how to just focus on a balance of everything and you guys really help instill that in me because I don't got a lot of like support in my life. So to have you guys to fall back on every day, I'll tell you my wife, she complains every time she comes out in the morning and she hears like, all you and your boys again this morning and I'm like, I'm sorry, it's every morning. So yeah, it's been nice to have you guys and my health anxiety the last week or like, I'm sorry, it's every morning. So yeah, it's been nice to have you guys.

Starting point is 01:48:46 And by health anxiety, the last week or two, I haven't been going to the gym. So like the opportunity to speak to you guys has now gotten me a little bit more motivated to get this started. So it's kind of been a blessing. I really believe in Jesus. And I think that this has been like really ordained for me

Starting point is 01:49:04 and it felt like the ordained for me and it felt like the right time for me. So thanks guys. That's awesome. That's awesome. I appreciate hearing that. Thank you so much. Looking forward to seeing you in the forum.

Starting point is 01:49:12 Make sure you say what's up and you keep us up post on how it's going. Right now. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Really excited to be involved with you guys. Have a good day. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:49:20 Yeah, man. Well, that's a tremendous success story. Yeah, yeah. Tremendous success story. That's cool. I mean, to go from that scare and using drugs to where he's at now. Complete 180, man.

Starting point is 01:49:34 Awesome. Look, for people listening right now, like he stopped the drugs, he lost the weight. There's still some demons he's dealing with and that's why it's a challenge for people because they get rid of the ways that they used to use, uh, to cope. Yeah. And so there's still some demons to deal with, but he's going about it the right

Starting point is 01:49:49 way. This is such a phenomenal success story. I'm excited to see how, yeah. I know I'm especially with the discipline that he has. If we get him on the right track with like the protein and strength and like, hopefully he'll see a dramatic difference that's coming here. Look, are you a hard gainer? Do you find it difficult to pack on muscle?

Starting point is 01:50:07 We have a hard gainer guide. It's totally free. You can find it at mind pump free.com. You can also find us on Instagram. Justin is at mind pump. Justin, I'm at mind pump to Stefano and Adam is at mind pump. Adam, thank you for listening to mind pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your

Starting point is 01:50:22 health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MinePumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic, nine months of phased, expert, exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainer, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other

Starting point is 01:51:04 valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes, and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2291: What to Do When You Have an Insatiable Appetite, the Best Way to Train With Type 2 Diabetes, Overcoming the Fear of Lifting Heavy Weights & More (Listener Live Coaching)

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.