Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2296: What to Do When Your Body Doesn’t Seem to be Responding to Diet & Exercise, Ways to Overcome an Unhealthy Obsession With Fitness, the Best Way to Teach a Group Fitness Class & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Email [e-mail] if you want to be considered to ask your question on the show. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Attention personal trainers: STOP training and START teaching. (2:44) Raising your kids your way. (13:40) Justin stepping out of his comfort zone. (20:44) Sal’s supplement blunder. (31:30) These phones are something else. (32:39) Hot takes on Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson. (39:09) John Cena’s “humiliation ritual.” (45:11) Mind Pump Recommends, American Conspiracy: The Octopus Murders on Netflix. (46:08) Capitalizing on cultural phenomena. (48:12) The exercise gender gap. (50:30) Why Ned stands out above the rest. (54:15) How YouTube’s ad revenue works. (56:13) China is the greatest copycat. (58:31) It’s all in the details. (1:00:54) Shout out to The Way of the Peaceful Warrior book. (1:03:23) #ListenerLive question #1 - Any advice on the best way to teach a group fitness class? (1:04:58) #ListenerLive question #2 - Is my pigeon breast condition severely limiting my ability to grow my chest muscles? Could this be affecting my performance in other lifts? If so, which ones are most likely to be impacted? (1:21:13) #ListenerLive question #3 - I feel like I’m doing everything right, but my body isn’t responding. Any advice or tips? (1:31:06) #ListenerLive question #4 - Have any of you struggled with your identity outside of fitness when that’s all you know, and have convinced other people that is who you are? (1:44:16) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Paleo Valley for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Discount is now automatically applied at checkout 15% off your first order! ** Visit NED for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP at checkout for 15% off ** March Promotion: MAPS Anabolic | MAPS Anabolic Advanced 50% off! ** Code MARCH50 at checkout ** Mind Pump Fitness Coaching Course Mind Pump #2252: Mind Pump Fitness Coaching Course Beverly Hills school district expels 8th graders involved in fake nude scandal Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson Will Happen Live on Netflix This Summer Oscars 2024 viewers claim John Cena’s appearance was “humiliation ritual” American Conspiracy: The Octopus Murders – Netflix Anthony Weiner MELTDOWN | PBD Podcast | Ep. 287 - YouTube If You Invested In Apple Stock Instead Of Buying iPhones ... - Benzinga Researchers study strength-training gender gap, possible solutions Katt Williams Unleashed | CLUB SHAY SHAY - YouTube BYD Reveals the Yangwang U9, an All-Electric 1,300 HP Supercar Way of the Peaceful Warrior For a limited time only, Mind Pump listeners get a free LMNT Sample Pack with any purchase: Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump MAPS Prime Pro Webinar Real Recovery Talk Mind Pump #2286: How To Workout After A Poor Night Of Sleep, Using Exercise To Recover From Alcohol & Drug Addiction, Ways To Alleviate IT Band Pain & More (Listener Live Coaching) Mind Pump TV - YouTube Mind Pump AI | Dexa Mind Pump #1745: How To Pack On Muscle To Your Lagging/Stubborn Body Parts MP Holistic Health Mind Pump Hormones Facebook Private Forum TRANSCEND your goals! Telehealth Provider • Physician Directed GET YOUR PERSONALIZED TREATMENT PLAN!  Hormone Replacement Therapy, Cognitive Function, Sleep & Fatigue, Athletic Performance and MORE. Their online process and medical experts make it simple to find out what’s right for you. Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Tony Jeffries Boxing (@tony_jeffries) Instagram Brendan Schaub (@brendanschaub) Instagram   

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we answered live caller's questions. People called in, we got to help them out. But this was after an intro portion. Today was 62 minutes long.

That's where we talk about current events, fitness, studies, family life, and much more. By the way, you can check the show notes for timestamps if you want to skip around your favorite parts. Also, if you want to be on an episode like this, call in, have us help you out on air. Email your question to live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Paleo Valley. They make Paleo inspired supplements. In fact, they have the best tasting protein powder I've ever had in my entire life. It is a bone broth chocolate flavored protein powder.

I swear to God, it tastes like chocolate donuts. It's amazing. Super easy to digest. Minimally processed. They have other products as well. Go check them out. Get yourself a discount. Go to paleovalley.com forward slash mind pump. That link will get you 15% off your first order. This episode is also brought to you by Ned, makers of the best hemp oil extracts you'll find anywhere high in CBD. So check this out. If you've tried CBD before and you were disappointed,

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forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump, get 15% off. This month's workout program sale Maps Anabolic 50% off and Maps Anabolic Advanced also 50% off. If you're interested go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the coupon code MARCH50 for the discount. Alright, here comes the show. T-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time! Aww, shit, Doug, you know it's my favorite time of the week. Six winners this week, three for Apple Podcasts,

three for Facebook, the Apple Podcast winners are I-S-N-S-B-W-L-A-L-D-B-L-S, you know who you are, Franklin D. Tortuga and AJ4 and for Facebook we have Pamela Health Coach, Matt Harding, David WATD. All six of you are winners. Send the name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you. Personal trainers, stop training people and start teaching them. You need to guide them, get them to the point where they could do this on their own. Now here's the interesting part about that. You'll become more successful if you do this properly. Just stop taking them through

workouts, teach them so they learn. This was a huge shift for me as a trainer. You gotta be the Oracle. The what? Theacle. The what? The oracle. The oracle. Yeah, you're the person of wisdom that they come back to. Yeah, I remember as an early trainer, it was like, oh, I'll just tell you what to do

and then you just do it. And then eventually I started figuring out, if I really find ways of teaching my clients and showing them why we do what we do and why things work the way they do and why you shouldn't do it this way. Not only were they more likely to follow my advice but they would develop a better relationship with it and the irony is of that is they stayed with me longer because I think a lot of trainers

are afraid of like teaching clients because they're like well they're not gonna need me anymore. The truth is when you if you ever get a client to the point where they don't need you anymore, they'll probably stay with you longer. Which is interesting. Do you think that's what it is? I think so, and also the other part of it is I think they don't realize that. They should be, you know, it's like clients

who learn how to exercise, who learn why they do what they do, they just do so much better. Maybe trainers don't realize that. Yeah, I think it's more of that. I think, because when I think back to like, we all were this way as trainers, you know? And I do remember having that scarcity mindset of afraid of losing them. But also think that I was just naive. I didn't know better. I just thought it was, it was always like the X's and O's. It was, oh, if they ate these macros,

they did these exercises and I could, I just motivated them to complete it. And most people don't complete it and fail. And so my job was to inspire them to get through it. And that was most of my job. And then most people still failed, and you just kept recycle, repeat, recycle, repeat, not realizing, I think, the psychological piece, right? The behavioral piece that you, after years of experience,

you start to realize like, oh, that matters a lot. Maybe even more so than the other stuff. I think it's rare for like a new trainer to really be able to look at it long-term like that. I think it's really, it's like a short-term view versus long-term view with like how to guide your clients. So initially it's like, like you said, it's all the X's and O's. It's like can I get them to subscribe to eating these types of foods and to just like work do these types of exercises and that's like as far as your like mentality gets. It's so funny you say that this morning I was talking to Kyle and I won't put the business on blast that's helping him or going through this stuff right now but you guys know that we've had him go out and sign up for courses and try

different things. And it's interesting, probably why this is and why this is perpetuated in the space is because you've got companies that are teaching trainers, like kind of this model and philosophy. And like I was talking to him, I'm like, Hey, what are you, how, what are you liking? What are you not liking? He's like, ah, well, he goes, I can see what they're building me up to. Like the, one of the things they're building me up to. One of the things they do to make sure

that you recoup the money that you've invested in them is they build towards this big launch. And it's all around hype and motivation. It's like, get your following hyped up about this challenge or this event, and you're going to sell all these programs. Such an unsustainable program. It's so unsustainable. It's so unsustainable.

And it's funny because obviously they're teaching from the business perspective, but you wonder why, that's also why the trainers I think coach and teach this way is that they have that same mentality. And so it's a failing model not only for helping your clients, but also for business. And yet this is the philosophy. And again, scarcity, right?

The idea of the business teaching these guys this also for business and yet this is the philosophy. And again, scarcity, right? The idea of the business teaching these guys this is that, well, we wanna make sure that they at least make their money back that they spent on us. They spent, you know, eight grand. Yeah, and then after that, who cares if he's got a business or not,

because they can, at least we know that, hey, they spent $10,000 on us. We're gonna show him how he can make $10,000. We can guarantee that by running this, you know, launch or this thing that we're gonna do. And then after that, if he's make $10,000, we can guarantee that by running this launch or this thing that we're gonna do. And then after that, if he's a great trainer, he'll make it, if he doesn't, who cares, because we've already recouped what he's invested in.

It's so built around it, it's like, that's not how you build sustainable business. No, I remember thinking as a trainer that the ideal client would be one who just did what I told them. Remember thinking that? Like, if I just kinda, just follow what I say and then it'll be great. But that is not an ideal client. First of all, that doesn't exist.

People will hire you and then do what you tell them. But eventually if they don't understand why and they're not doing it for the right reasons, then they'll stop. They'll just stop doing it. The real successful model is getting a client to trust you. That's important. How do you do that? Well, you build vulnerability and honesty and you set the expectations realistically.

You don't oversell or lie or any of that stuff. But then it's about teaching them so that they know why they're doing what they're doing. So they become educated. Not only do they understand, but then they value it because then they'll want to continue it. It's not about losing 30 pounds. It's about how do we get you in a place where this doesn't ever come back? If I were to be gone, that you would have the tools that would allow you to maintain this.

Again, this is the successful model. I had a lot of pride that my clients, the ones that were with me for a long time, knew more than many, if not most, like new trainers. And it would be funny because they'd go to work out at gyms with their friends or whatever, and they'd come back and be like, oh my God, I saw this trainer doing this. I saw this trainer doing that. And I heard a trainer talking about this.

And it's really crazy how much misinformation is out there. And it's like, well, you know, number one, it made me kind of sad, like, well, I hope trainers get better. But number two, I felt proud because I was able to educate them. Plus they have to navigate, people have to navigate the world and navigate the diet industry and the supplement industry. And you need to equip your clients, not just to do what you tell them, but to know why, why you do what you do.

If you do that, man, you've got clients for life. Yeah. That was always the irony was the most educated clients that you built up to that were the ones that were the lifers the ones that kept coming back and and because you know they feed off that knowledge and they feed off the fact that you know, you're providing them tools that their appliance working and It's and then again, they'll get their family involved or whoever they give you referrals There's so much more business you receive as a result of really pouring that

into your client and not just trying to get to a result. Can you communicate what that sounds like? Can you remember how that conversation switched? Oh, it was this way, I used to talk to my clients like this when I first started, where it was like around, five more, come on, you got this. It was more around that, right? Counting reps, pushing them, getting hype.

And then when did it switch over to the teaching and how does that sound different from the clients? It was an evolution from explaining when the questions would arise, because that's the first thing that happens. They're like, well, why are you making me stop now? I feel like I could do four more reps and then I would explain or whatever.

It was an evolution from there to telling them before the question would pop up. So like, look, we're going to do the set right here. I'm going to tell you to stop. You're going to feel like you could probably do five more. Forecasting. But here's why we do it this way. Yeah. And then I would explain kind of what's happening in their body.

Cause if you tell them before it happens, people, well, they, first off, you really come across with what we were talking about because they experience it like, okay, I'm going to tell you to eat in this particular way. Here's what's going to happen. You're going to feel like you can't eat anymore. Eating that much protein is very challenging. You're going to feel like, uh, you know, you're going to want to do this.

You're going to want to do that. Here's why you don't want to do those things. Or like my favorite one was I get a new client and say, okay, we're going to, this is how it's going to work. We're going to do a set. We're going to rest for about two minutes. You're going to feel ready 30 seconds later, but that doesn't mean that we're trained the right way.

I'm not giving you a rest period because you need to rest because you can't do another set. I'm giving a rest period so we can replenish ATP, train the proper adaptation signals. What does that mean? And we talk about it and then we would do it. That was the evolution. Yeah.

For me, like part of it was, I guess there's a transitional period where I was like, okay, oh, I got to educate them right out of the gates and I got to tell them why we're doing all this in the workout. And so I like would prescribe this workout ahead of time, have it all written out, like, or whether it's a diet plan, I'm kind of going through and I'm

trying to educate. And then it's just like, you realize none of that sticks. And literally, I have to figure out like where they're at when they come into the gym. And so I have to like, ask them very specific questions and find out like where their energy is at. Do they get sleep? Like, you know, how much stress are they in right now with work and the relationships and what do they tend to grab at lunch? What do they tend to do this? You ask them real specific questions about what's happening right now, and then I'm able to steer them a lot more effectively.

You know what's funny about what you're both are saying? You know what it sounds a lot like? Like parenting. Oh, yeah. Exactly. I'm serious. And it's funny because all communication, I know. And it's funny because we talked to the other day

about how, we all talk about how when our kids ask stuff that you don't just ever say, because I told you so, or because dad said so. I always want to be able to communicate to my son why he can't do this or why I'm telling him no and I'm gonna explain it. Not because I feel like I need to give my son a reason, more so so I could educate him on the process of why this is going to make you a better human. Why daddy doesn't just let you stay up till 10 o'clock,

11 o'clock at night and eat candy at 9 o'clock after dinner. Why do we do these things versus just saying, because I said so. It's so similar to know, trajectory that you followed as a good coach and trainer. You first start off, it's like, this is what it takes to get loose body fat. You have to follow these macros, you just do what I say, and I'm gonna motivate you. Then it turns into this like explaining every detail along the way.

And then even further, it's like, figure out where they're at and meeting them. It's not like, okay, I might have had this plan to teach nutrition and teach program design. It's like, oh shit, they're not even ready for that. Where this person is at, they're still trying to even justify, why the fuck am I here?

Why am I even coming to this thing? My doctor told me I need to be here. It's timing. Yeah, and so where can I show them that part first and then explain the why behind everything we're doing? Just hearing you both talk about it, I'm like, oh my God, it sounds so much of your philosophy around parenting.

Yeah, it's one of the hallmarks of a really, like a truly successful good trainer is whether or not clients continue to exercise properly after the trainer is no longer training them. If they continue on this lifestyle, if they've created permanent or helped encourage these permanent changes. That's the real hallmark of a successful trainer. Not whether or not your clients get results in 30

days, 60 days or whatever and then fall off. That's easy. Everybody does that. But if you do it right, it's like, you know, it's funny, you brought up parenting. Jessica had this, she said this quote to me that stuck with me a long time ago where she said, your kids are gonna be adults for a lot longer than their kids. And so I thought about that. It's like, you know the hard times that you have with your kids, where you're like struggling with them,

it's like, how are they gonna look back on this as an adult? Maybe now when they're 12, whatever, annoyed that dad did this or whatever, but when they're 30, 35, 40, whatever, they'll look back and be like, oh man, I'm glad you taught me that way because you're an adult for a lot longer than you're a kid. And it sticks with you.

It sticks with you. I mean, that stat of the amount of days that we'll spend with our kids after 18 compared to the first 18, it always sticks with me. I mean, I think that's crazy to think that the first 18 years you're gonna spend most of the time you'll ever spend with them for the rest of their lives. I had a challenging conversation with my, with my aunt, uh, over the weekend.

We had, so my, my brother, we baptized my nephew, which is great honor. It was really awesome. My brother's just such a great dad, but we're up there and my family has a family culture plus the culture where, um, and you, when you grow up with this, it's just how things are, and then you get older and you go, wait a minute, maybe we should do this a little different. But the way things are is if a little, like little

kids, if they're asked to give someone a kiss, they're supposed to give them a kiss, it's respect. That's how it's sold. No, it's respectful. It's respectful. And I never challenged that until relatively recently. And then, you look at it now, and Jessica helps me with this, I look at it now and I go, telling my three year old

they have to kiss a person because they're asking them, or because they're making them feel guilty, or because they're offering them a cookie, that's not really a good, you know? When you unpack it like that it sounds really bad. Well, years, a while, this was a struggle for me for a long time because it makes me feel like I'm denying my own arm, you know what I mean?

Because it's my cult, it's what I grew up with. But I remember, you know, Jessica made the point, she goes, number one, if anybody ever takes advantage of a kid, it's almost always someone they know, and it's almost always because the kid feels like they have to listen, obey, or because they were guilted or given gifts. Like exactly the ways that people in my family

like to convince kids. So my family has a big problem with this, right? So when they come up to give them a kiss and my son says no, oh come on, oh you make me sad, oh I'll give you a dollar, or I'll give you this or whatever. So I'm starting to really stand my ground and I'm like, no, and I tell him in front of them,

you don't have to kiss them if you don't want to. So we had a conversation, I got a message. I got a message from my aunt, we're going back and forth and I said, you know, he's gonna be, I said, right now he's three, so he has to learn that above and beyond whether or not an adult tells him respect or whatever, that if he feels uncomfortable that he has to feel confident enough to say no.

Now as you get older, you understand, you greet people or whatever, but especially at this age, he needs to learn, he can say no to a kiss or a hug. So I'm having this conversation with my aunt. I think she understood, but it's just like a ongoing. Did she end up texting you afterwards? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we're going back and forth, and I's just like a, I'm going. Did she end up like texting you afterwards? Like all of a sudden?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're going back and forth. And I explained it to her. I said, you know, the irony, here's the irony. They make it so anxious and awkward that it only, my son only asserts himself more. Yeah. It's like, if you guys just relaxed, if I just said,

if he said, no, I don't want to kiss you, you're like, no problem, buddy. He's a little rebel in the making, yeah. And if you left it, then he tends to like relax and come around. But if you push it, then he's gonna keep pulling back and I'm gonna let him pull back. You know what I mean? But I was raised like, no, you kiss people

and they say it. And if you think about that. You clean your plate, you eat every last morsel. I'm like, that isn't good. I mean, I felt like that was the challenge I went through with the candy, right? Like everybody wants to reward the kid with candy. It's like their bribery tool.

It's like how they get him to do whatever they want him to do. And I'm just like, no, I don't want him to like, and boy getting the family to like understand that, like it's, listen, I'm not saying, and I remember the defense was always like, oh my, he's only gonna rebel when he gets older and he's gonna eat all the candy in the world

because you tell him, I'm like, no he's not the point. That's not true. I'm like, he's gonna have all those things. I'm not denying him that for the rest of his life. He's just at such a young age right now, I don't wanna condition him that, oh, when someone offers you candy,

you do whatever they tell him to do, or like you do these behaviors for those things. Like, if you want that relationship with my son go build it You know go fucking play with them go teach him numbers go to go do puzzles with him go play on the playground I want to easily I want to give him candy. Yeah Like such a cheap shortcuts like relax dude, you'll have an opportunity to have an ice cream cone with him I'm not gonna deny that when he's at a certain age, but like right now It's not the hardest things though because you know people are raised a particular way, they grow up in their family culture.

It becomes so much a part of who you are that challenging it is like what do you mean? I grew up fine. It's like that's not the point and you kind of did. According to you. Yeah no I mean that's not right I'm making jokes you know, like the cleaning up your plate type of deal. Like, no, you have to finish. Yeah, I was big in my family. Like, what are you teaching? Like, we don't live in a world with scarcity.

Now, I understand if it was a thousand years ago, like, yeah, listen, I just killed this animal. I don't know if I'll be able to kill one in another week or two. Nothing with the waste. But now, when I was a kid, literally, we would be at my grandma's house and we'd all have food put in front of us.

And my grandma would come out and be like, all right, whoever finishes their plate first gets $5. Like encouraging us to stuff our faces. Or they'd put a timer. You got five minutes. The bribery was huge, yeah, with the boomers. Yeah. I don't know, that must have been like their MO.

And you also want kids to do things, and this takes longer, this is why I get why it's a struggle for people. You want kids to learn to do things from their own internal motivation, right? Like for example, people have said this before, but I think it's a good point. You don't want your kid to not steal because they're afraid of getting caught, or because they want to impress their parent.

You want them to not steal because it's wrong, but that takes longer to teach because it's easy to get a kid to do what you want through fear or to just make you make mom and dad happy. But so it takes longer to get them to like kind of figure it out themselves and go, no, this is actually the right way. It just takes longer, I think, is why people

don't do it that way. But no, that's what it is. Because it's like, I know what they're doing. They're doing it because they want this bond and relationship with them. And obviously you don't need candy to build a bond and relationship with the kid. But the other way takes longer.

The other way is like, Oh, you're going to have, you're going to have to warm up to him and then do the thing, play with the things that he wants to play with. And you go through the phases of he's into hanging out with you, then he's not into hanging out with you. It just takes time versus, you know, if you pull out

that candy and like, Hey, you want a sucker into hanging out with you, it just takes time. Versus, you know, if you pull out that candy and like, hey, you want a sucker? He's gonna say yes every single time and so it's just a shortcut. It is, it is. And then you revisit your own, like my family has no boundaries, bro. Like none.

You know, like still to this day, if any of my men. I think I want your family and Katrina's family, all of us to all just, oh man. I think they'd all be like, oh, we're the same. At least your family's party, dude. Yeah. What party did oh you had the you had the 50th anniversary this weekend just to give a speech to a hundred yes oh you're gonna do a speech no no actually you had to entertain them yeah it wasn't just this well I didn't

know this like it was like yeah so and I didn't know it either I just like walked into it so yeah dude so it was my parents' 50th anniversary. It was a big deal. And I knew this was coming a couple months ago, that my mom wanted to put this together. And I was like, anything I could do to help, and trying to provide money to buy stuff to get a DJ, and all this, and film it and like make it kind of like a big deal. And so like she did, she got a DJ

and invited like 150 people. And I'm like, wow, you know, 150 people. That's like no 150 people I would invite. You know, like that's a lot. And 100 people like showed up. Wow. And so just to give you some perspective, it was like the the age range was around like 70 to 90, like no joke. There was, there was a lot of,

sounds like a good time. Okay. Now add, now add a few of these other elements. It was a costume party. No. What kind of, why, what kind of costume? You might ask. I don't know. Um, yeah. What kind, What's the theme? No theme You just put a costume on and you come and you celebrate my parents 50th that was really the instructions Yes, what kind of all the costumes that the people were you had like you had like Cowboys there You had like you had this one guy who was like In a sheriff's outfit. I Okay, and in okay, this is me pre speech and everything and I like I wrote all this stuff down

Like so the the premise for me to go up there was like my dad was like, you know Have fun with it. You roast us even a little bit and you know, like Mike tell some stories it fun. I'm like okay. He's like coaching you. Yeah I'll like I'll figure out. No the whole thing is a big like they already had a vision for this thing that nobody knew. You know what I mean? And it was like my mom is very much like that. We'll have like this crazy vision for something and like nobody's on board. But like you find out day of, like this is what you're doing. I'm like, oh, this is what I'm doing. And even my cousin who was like a sister of me,

she lived with us for a while, like she was there and like she turned into like a DJ, like she did the DJ's job because he didn't want to like talk on the mic at all. So she was like MCing, like the whole thing. She didn't find out about that till day of. And so it was like, just to read kind of the room, uh, this guy kind of walks in, I'm,

I'm like looking at everybody coming in their costumes and it's, it's great. You know, see much of like old people like kind of putting their, their best efforts into this and they'll, you know, like, we got like fake mustaches and you know, they got flapper outfits and like there's like it like I don't know gas station Attendant like just read just so insanely random this guy comes up in like a Sheriff outfit. I'm like the strippers here everybody nothing Not land

Okay, and this before I even did the speech, and I'm like, oh fuck. Like, I am screwed. He's like, Justin's like, that was my heater. That was my closer. You know, like, I am so, so in for it. Justin, I gotta say this, Justin was up there talking to me a little bit about this,

and he goes, I thought I got over my fear of speech. He's all, and it just pulled it out of me. I told you guys, since the beginning of this podcast, anybody's been listening long enough, like, this is not my jam. Like, I'm not the guy that's going to, hey, guys, you know, I have things to say. Like, I'm not the guy that's going to get up in front of everybody just to like, hey, say things. And so now you add all these like, like elements in there. And, um, Are you petrified? Are you petrified and no alcohol? This is a dry party. This is okay. This is all church people. This is all like, like potluck kind of vibes.

So it was the whole room just quiet every time you play a good joke. Quiet. My cousins and like my, my brother. So my brother was up there with me. Maybe they're hearing aids. And like my my brother so my brother was up there with me Let's party no my my closer I think I talked about I was like everybody here You know, I'm like there's probably a lot of parents here that went through the 70s, you know and and Y'all probably had water beds. I just want to want you to know that like, I know what that is now as an adult, you know, and then nothing. Yeah. That was, that was as clean as I could get for like

an innuendo of like, Hey, you guys are playing water bed style. You know, like I told Justin to spike the punch of aggro. That would have made things way more interesting. But you know what? Like again, this is me in my, like my parents loved it. Like everybody had a good time and it was like, you know, for, for their speed is just a different speed. And so you're talking about like, like this was a total cultural thing. I grew up stuffy, like conservative, like I forgot about all this stuff because I've been hanging out with you guys so long. That being in that environment

again, I remember now like even talking with a lot of the their friends growing up there, like, I don't know if you ever said a word. And in my head, I'm like, yeah, I didn't want to say anything to you guys. Like I had to censor everything. What am I going to talk about? I had nothing in common with you. You're that cute little chubby boy. Yeah, you're the guy that just sat there in the corner and was just like, mm. Because I was.

I was like, oh. I'm just angry. So what was like the, OK, so you had a DJ there. You had Imagine Food. So was it like a dining, dance hall theme vibe? What was it like a like dining dance hall theme? Yeah, I but was it like yeah, so I mean in like there was a My mom had this lady's kind of coordinating dance moves

And so it was like line dancing kind of a vibe thing going on and they played like some old tunes And it was the music was great But hilariously enough after we do our kind of like stick me my brother I brought him up and we're trying I was like I can't do this much longer was like 20 minutes like I'm up there like trying to like Throws me like yeah, he's like So remember that one story I told you guys about the yellow jackets of my when my friend and I were Through a rock at it and then like, you know know somebody got really stung and hurt and all that he made my dad's he's like oh tell that

story it's hilarious I'm like it just makes me sound like an asshole I remember that story he told it on the podcast yeah it's so I mean I I tried to have fun with it probably bullied someone bullied someone. Yeah, someone bullied me, dude. Like 100%. We're just like hiding behind this car like, oh no. Poor you. We did this to you. So it was painfully cringe and awkward, but everybody had fun and it turned out great.

So it was a success for them. It was a success for them. And they're 50 years in it, Mary? 50 years together. So it was a success for them. It was a success for them. And they're 50 years in it, Mary? 50 years together. So it's substantial. I feel like Doug's hella pissed he didn't get invited. I couldn't use Doug there, dude. I was like, Doug, you got me, right?

Somebody just somebody to anchor in the audience that like help. You know, because we do live events and it's like, at least I can get some You know some laughs in there and like it just was like I just I haven't like gone up in front of people like bombed Like in a long time like and that was like that was rough, dude. I'm still like Dylan recorded the whole thing. Yeah was Dylan there he was there. Oh, no way And we were talking like we're're going to really have to spice this up with some graphics, some sound effects, or something. Like, this is like. Laugh track.

Yeah, like, ha ha ha. Yeah, exactly. Like a little sitcom laugh track in the back. That would help, dude. It would be hilarious. Would have helped. But yeah, so I had another funny thing. So Friday before all that, my cousin flew in early.

And she got married recently and so I was like, I'll hang out with you guys. I was by myself, my kids and Courtney were gone, which that didn't help either. They weren't at the party to help me riff. I was like, maybe I'll go to a concert. And I looked and I found a Battle of the Bands. And so I was like, oh cool. You guys want to go And I looked and I found a Battle of the Bands. And so I was like, oh cool. You guys wanna go hit this up and just, you know, have some drinks, whatever. And so we did that.

We went to dinner and we go to this Battle of Bands and we get there and it was like, you know, this one little roped off section near the bar and nothing but teeny boppers. And I was like, oh, this is like, these are like high school kids? Hold on, you said teeny boppers? Teeny boppers, is that not a word?

Yeah, it is, right? We used to say that back in the day. That's a thing. Nobody says that anymore. Yeah, so we're over there in the corner, and I'm like, wow, this is interesting. Young band up there, they're probably like 18, 20-looking-ish, maybe.

I don't know, I have a bad gauge with all that, but we're kinda talking, we're listening to the bands. Next one comes up, younger, next one comes. This was like a high school I'm not even a parent, you know, like oh, so, you know somebody out there. I don't know anybody Which was your kid? I'm just here to observe. Yeah, what a creep. Which one's your kid? Yeah. Oh, wow.

So how's my weekend? I like being around, when I used to train people in that age group, I used to love seeing old people, old couples together, because old couples have been together for a long time. The way they argue is so different. It's funny. Yeah, it's so different, because I think once,

after a certain point, I think you just like, it's like, whatever, it doesn't affect me. When you put 50 years in with someone like, I mean, I, I mean, I, we Katrina and I only made a 13 years. I can only imagine what 50 is. You know what they're going to say before they say it. You know what I'm saying? You know, what makes it, you know, what makes them mad, you know, they're irritated. You say, you know what I'm saying? So you can like cut them off on there. Even being irritated.

The fuck you're going to say right now. So there's the, I think there's like such great, I mean, or at least the ones that I think that look happy and healthy, successful that have lasted that long have this kind of, I don't know, like sarcastic like around a lot of acceptance. Yeah. Like even around the fights and disagreements, there's like sarcasm, You just can't roll your eyes and move on. Yeah, it's the 700th time we've argued about that. Yeah, exactly. It's like, it is what it is.

Dude, I made a huge supplement blunder this weekend. I bought some bone broth protein from Whole Foods, assuming, because collagen typically tastes good. Collagen type protein always typically tastes good. Is it only bland or basic? Typically. Oh, it was gross, dude. I bought one and it was a bone broth protein chocolate

and I've been spoiled by Paleo Valley's because it's just so good. And I thought, oh, it was gross. But I looked at the ingredients and it was beef bone, chicken bone, fish bone. Ew, oh, what? So it had a little bit of a taste to it. Yeah, dude, it was gross.

What do you think the point of mixing the different bones? Different types of, I think it's just a marketing ploy, different types of whatever college or whatever. It was gross, dude. I literally threw it away. I drank one serving of it and tossed it. But we're super spoiled with the Paleo Valley chocolate. Nothing comes close to that.

It took me a long time to get on board with that you got me on that and that's actually I prefer that now That's gotten to a point now where unless I'm making like where I'm cooking with it Yeah, or make like that. I would prefer that now It's like it just mixing that was just some water and almond milk. It goes down so smooth, dude Did you guys hear about that middle school in Beverly Hills those kids getting kicked out? They of course their middle school so we don't have names and stuff, but you would happen? No. This is gonna, this is, this is, and I know why it went national. It's like national news or whatever. Uh, probably because it's gonna

happen more and more. I guess some kids made some deep fake nudes of other kids in the school. Wow. They were fakes? Yeah, they were fakes. Because remember, there was that story we told at the high school level where there was kids that were passing around images. Actual images. Yeah, actual images. Now, that's happened before. But this is different now because you have AI now. Wow.

Right? It can take a picture of you. And it can make it realistically look like you're naked. It's just so much out there. So even if it's not real, imagine being a kid like that and then there's pictures circulating of you. Was it, was it, one of you guys that was talking about that was the direction like pornography was going to

where they're gonna be able to put like anybody's face on, like just put some super famous model or whatever with that on the body and stuff like that or on the, yeah, on the body. And so it looks like it matches and it's really them. That's gonna be, and how are they gonna stop that? Like how, once the cat's on the body, so it looks like it matches and it's really them, that's gonna be, and how are they gonna stop that? Like how, once the cat's out the bag,

like how are you gonna keep that from happening? This reminds me of Adam Sandler movie. There was like this kid that he was like, they found like his stash of porn on the bed or whatever, and then he took a picture of like the babysitter's face and put it on there, you know? Yeah, now this is like that on steroids, I guess. and then he took a picture of like the babysitter's face and put it on there. You know? Yeah. Now this is like that on steroids, I guess.

Well, this is like that, and then it gets shared, and it looks realistic. Wow. So imagine being a kid, like I said, and you receive a picture, your friend's like, dude, is this just a magic view? Yeah, you're that horny teenage boy, and you know, it's like you're fixated on like your babysitter

or whatever. It's like, dude, this is crazy. It's getting weird and because it's gonna look so realistic, it feels like a violation. You know what I mean? Like you get, imagine seeing a picture of yourself. As an adult, you'd be like, that's not me, obviously.

But imagine as a kid, other kids in your school seeing it. Oh my God. And then it's out there. It's nuts. Like how do you get rid of it? These phones are, yeah, something else. Dude, this is gonna be weird. I know, I know. How do you even regulate that? That's what there. It's nuts. Like how do you get rid of it? These phones are yeah, something else. Dude, this is going to be weird. I know. I didn't even, how do you even regulate

that? I, that's what I'm trying to think. I'm seriously trying to wrap my brain around. How do you even stop this from happening? I don't think you can. I mean, you know, what ends up happening is that you, we get to a place where, which is what I would think would end up happening is schools start outlawing phones on campuses. Like it gets to a point where it's like, it's too impossible to police, therefore you just can't have them here. Like you have to go off premises, you can't be here.

That way these kids can't be sharing, showing, doing any of that stuff anymore. Do you think that in the future they'll regulate these deep fake AI's so that they can't do this with anyone without their permission? Cause I mean on one hand you're like, it's not really a picture of you, so what's the big deal? But on the other hand it's like it looks so real.

I mean, cause they're getting so good. Well here's the deal. This has been happening for a long time. It's just now it's gotten so accurate. That's the point. Yeah. Right, so it's like they never stopped it before. Like this was always happening. No, cause you could tell it's fake. Right. That's the point. So it's like they never stopped it before, like this was always happening.

Not because you could tell, it's fake. Right, so also now because the Photoshop is so good, now we have to worry about that, that's like, think about that. Yeah, and the technology to detect it's always gonna be behind. Yeah. And that's with images, what follows is video.

When the video gets so good, you can't tell. We're all gonna be, that's gonna be weird. I've already got caught up sending stuff to my buddies like, oh my god, you see this? And it's like these old interviews of like super famous, the one I had just sent was like an ESPN reporter, right? Really famous ESPN reporter.

And it was an old interview, like in the 80s of him. And the way he was talking was just like, Oh my God, like, I can't believe he said that in an interview. Oh, I saw that you sent that to me. Yeah. That wasn't real. Wasn't real. Who's doctor?

And you can't even tell his lips are moving on. It looks like it's completely you don't real. And if the edit is so good that you've already seen if you're an evil dictator, right? Like in your scene, this is a powerful resource in the future, and you know how the first step for a lot of these evil dictators and tyrants is to throw out all the books, throw out all the previous history and education. You could literally rewrite and refil, and completely distort and twist history. Well, you know, the Soviets there, I mean, they obviously didn't have the technology,

but there were pictures of like, if you got executed, they would erase you from all the photos and so they, you would see photos of like Stalin. You just don't exist. And it looks like he's by himself, but the original photo was with him, with this person that got executed type of deal. I don't, you know, so here's what I think is gonna happen, and I heard this point made on the All In podcast, and I agree with it.

I think it's gonna get to the point where people are gonna beg for an arbitrator. They're gonna beg for some kind of a seal of authenticity. And then who's gonna be the holder of that? Yeah, is that a good thing? No. That doesn't necessarily fix it.

The person behind that, I'm never gonna trust. Yeah, exactly, just give somebody else a crazy amount of power and control. I don't know fix it. That's it. The person behind that, I'm never gonna trust. Yeah, exactly, just give somebody else like a crazy amount of power and control. I don't know, it's so hard. Are we gonna be in a post-media time? So I think the move is like the direction I would go, which is the, you just, that's a tool. It's not necessary.

The kids can go to school and not have phones at school. 100%. Oh yeah. We have fucking, we'll put pay phones back in schools and it's like, you need to call or do whatever with that. You can call your family, just like we did 25 years ago. Like they do not need to have. You need to push them back, dude.

They do not need to have those there. Like they can be taught and I think that's the best way to, what they do at home with their parents, that's the parent's job. Now you're home with your mom and dad, like it's their job to make sure you're not doing weird shit like that. But at least if I'm schools, I would think that

that would be the move. Instead of trying to hire some company to come in. Do you think though generally we're gonna be in a post-media time at some point where everyone's just gonna be like, I don't know what I believe, I don't believe any of it, unless I see it right in front of my face. So it's all bullshit.

To me it still fits perfectly into the plugged in, unplugged narrative that I keep talking about. Like I just think that if you choose to be, part of the reason why you choose to be plugged in, unplugged narrative that I keep talking about. Like I just think that it'll, you, if you choose to be, you choose to, part of the reason why you choose to be unplugged, you're like, eh, half that stuff is fake and manipulated, and there's a narrative around it, they're trying to tell a story, they're trying to tell you,

so my family and I, we choose to be unplugged completely, and then there'll be the other people that will probably opt for, oh, well no, it has the seal on it, that's real, and they're all in the plugged in. Please lie to me, that's what people are doing. Yeah, yeah, no, it has the seal on it, that's real, and they're all in the plug-in. Please lie to me, that's what people are saying. Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's the direction that we're. Speaking of media, so is this legit,

Mike Tyson is gonna fight Jake Paul? Dude. By the way, do you guys know how old Mike Tyson is? 55 or 57. No, 57, he's gonna be 58 I think when the fight happens. Wow. So he's not like. Did you see the videos of him working out still?

Yeah, he's explosive. He hasn't, I mean he's Tyson. He's a beast, yeah he's Tyson. He's still 57 or 58. Listen, listen. I don't want him to fight them. I know, I don't think it's a healthy thing to do no matter what, but what do we always say?

The last thing to go is what? A boxer's power. Their power. But their speed, agility, and their chin. He's one of the most powerful boxers ever. And I don't know. I think he looks light enough and quick enough on his feet that if he can elude some of his punches,

I mean, here's what I think. I'm way more interested in the business side of this. I think it's so interesting. I mean, I'm not the right person. Go watch Tony Jefferies talk about if it's a healthy or the right thing to do. And so watch Tony Jefferies talk about if it's a healthy or the right thing to do. And so then I know he posted a whole video on it

and his view from a boxing perspective, which I'm not an authority in that space. From a business perspective, I'm fascinated by it. Like brilliant fucking move, even more interesting that they went through Netflix instead of a pay-per-view. So this fight is gonna be for free. Maybe one of the most watch fights ever. How are they gonna monetize? So this is what I think that I don't, I looked up to see what

Netflix was paying Jake Paul and Mike Tyson and there's nothing on it. I can't find it anywhere. Maybe Andrew can dig, but I looked at Netflix is paying him fat. Yeah. Oh, have to be. So I think Netflix and okay. And you real easy to estimate that Jake Paul, his last five fights, all you have to do is see what his pay-per-view pool is. I don't know what it was. Let's just say for argument's sake, it was $50 million, right? Okay, so he knows he can generate 50 million on his own

on a pay-per-view. We're Netflix. We wanna entice him and Mike Tyson to have this on our streaming platform. So we offer them each 75 million. And then their desired outcome is millions and millions of people watch this thing and a percentage of them don 75 million. And then their desired outcome is millions and millions of people watch this thing and a percentage of them don't have-

Yeah, they forget to cancel. Yeah, they don't have a subscription. So they have to pay at least the $12 to get in the first time and then a percentage of those people will remain coming or staying with Netflix for the next six months to a year and they recoup all their money. And they wouldn't do it if it didn't make sense. It's got to make sense. What's crazy to me about this is

that Mike Tyson being 58 well past this prime. Well past. I think the oldest like boxer that was successful was forming at 45. Oh right. Was he 45 or 44? That's and by the way there's a big difference. The older you get okay the bigger the bigger the difference becomes between, you know, every decade. So 35, you know, 25 to 35, there's a difference. There's a bigger difference, 35 to 45. There's a really big difference, 35 to 55. 60, every decade is, so Mike Tyson is so far out of his prime, but the fact that he's able to pull so many people because of how impactful he was as a boxer. Now, didn't he fight Hollyfield a couple years back? No, it was a long time ago.

No, it was a long time ago. I've seen him with someone. He was old though. Not really, it was like four years ago. It wasn't that, yeah, it wasn't like... It was at a Jake Paul fight. He fought another boxer. Tyson did.

Yes. See what Tyson's last fight was. Yeah, I'd like... You know, so, okay, I think, because they're friends, right? Jake and him are friends. I think this is a complete exhibition to them. You know what I'm saying?

They're gonna hype it up, calling each other out, and the stare down, and the shit talking. Jake Paul's a master at that. But there's gotta be this behind the scenes, hey listen, don't hit me that hard Talk or like hey, I'll do this with you. But then what's it say? Oh 2005. Well, he fought Roy Jones jr Oh, yeah, 2020. Oh, so he did four years ago, but did you guys watch that? No, I didn't watch it I mean you could tell that he gets fatigued more right faster or whatever and he would by the way

He was already that fighter He was a fighter who if he didn't win in the first three to four I forget what his stats were You can tell that he gets fatigued more, right? Faster or whatever. And he would, by the way, he was already that fighter. He was a fighter who, if he didn't win in the first three to four, I forget what his stats were. Well, the longer you went, the better the odds were. He's the knockout artist. Yeah, yeah. If he wasn't knocking someone out in the first four rounds,

then it was. Now, do you guys hope that Tyson just knocks him out? Of course. Yeah, man, I mean, everybody subscribes to see. I mean, this is the mastery behind Jake Paul. He's positioned himself as the ultimate Is the ultimate heel so he just goes and finds these fights that people would be interested in seeing him get knocked out And but it'd be interesting. Do you know what he's I don't know his last fight pool

But I that's the least interested I've heard anybody I wasn't interested at all his last one like yeah But you don't even know who he fought right? Yeah. Yeah, so no one was even paying attention to the fights speaking of fights Did you see so did you follow the whole Francis Nogano, I think that's how you say his last name? Oh, didn't he just get knocked out? Yes. Yeah. So he's the one who was the MMA fighter, the heavyweight MMA fighter that fought Tyson Fury.

And everybody said that Tyson Fury actually lost, and they were so surprised. Tyson Fury's like the baddest boxer on the planet right now, right? And everyone said that Francis really won that fight, but they gave it to Tyson because it was in boxing class. Everybody was super pissed off about it. So then this guy is like one of Tyson Fury's nemesis in the boxing world, but

not considered to be as good as Tyson. So, you know, Brandon Schaub, all these people were talking about the fight, saying that Francis was just gonna just destroy him, and he got laid, out like buckled. Francis did? Yeah, he got put to sleep in the second round. Wow. Yeah, it was gnarly.

What do you got there, Doug? I got a good shot on him. Exactly, Andrew. Is that Andrew? We've got a separate thing from Netflix. So Netflix, they paid two tennis players a million dollars each in the last stream live event that they did, so that gives an idea how much Paul and

Tyson gonna make Although I'm sure they'll make much more but separately they just signed a five billion dollar broadcasting deal to host WWE five billion Wow, wow Okay, so they're making moves in the sports world. So give me where the ticker on Netflix. Tell me where the Give me where the ticker on Netflix, tell me where the, I'm serious, I mean think about it. You take WWE, you start moving into the, getting these streaming and fighting these fights, it's a brilliant strategy.

By the way, speaking of pro wrestlers and stuff, have you guys, Justin will know this, have you ever heard of a humiliation ritual? Humiliation ritual. Yes, so John Cena came out to present an award, I think, at the Oscars, and he came out naked wearing a sign. Oh, you were talking about symbolism and- And people are posting this on X, which-

Some kind of Illuminati thing. Yeah, and they're saying, oh, this was part of his humiliation ritual. Apparently, the quote-unquote Illuminati, part of- That's when they think the Will Smith and all that. Yeah, that part of what you need to do to follow them and be a part of whatever is you have to also go through a humiliation ritual, and part of that means if you're a guy you'll come out dressed like a girl,

you'll make yourself look like an idiot, you have to embarrass yourself in front of everybody, and so they're saying that this was John Cena's. He came out naked with a sign. Yeah, like, oh, here he is with the Illuminati humiliation ritual. Yeah, it was weird. here he is with the Illuminati humiliation ritual. Yeah, dude. It was weird.

There's a lot of weird stuff around that. I'm listening now. I'm all tentful. Yeah, now you got to. We finally got you, dude. Hey, I'm all ears, bro. I'm all ears now. We need to talk about that.

Yeah, the octopus murders. Murders. Explain this. Is there too much in there for you guys to explain? Yeah, there is. There is a lot in there. And honestly, like Doug's point, it ends where it doesn't conclude for sure to you,

but it tells enough that makes you go like, oh my god. They were just saving their own ass at the end of that to end it that way, because it was just like, it was pretty clear where a lot of meddling was happening. So the idea of the octopus is that it's like, and the way the kind of the premise of this Netflix doc series goes is like, this reporter is like, this investigative reporter is like going into like this,

this like suicide that happened to another reporter. But let me guess, the reporter was getting close to like uncovering some shit. Yes, and so that's like the center of like him trying to figure this out. And the more he dug, it had all these layers of that went crazy deep into this conspiracy, crazy deep into this conspiracy, crazy like,

and they were all interconnected. So like he got too close to some crazy shit. Some real big. Yeah, big time stuff. Have you guys ever seen a list of the people that apparently, I don't know if this is confirmed or not, apparently the people connected to the Clintons that have committed suicide or have died.

So Patrick Bette David did it. Did you not watch that? Oh I did, he got pissed. Patrick Bette David had to. They were talking to Anthony Weiner, right? Yeah, the guy who's family friends of the Clintons, right? And he put him on the spot and literally had the entire list and he got so mad.

I don't know if he watched that interview or not, but he got so pissed because he was like challenging him on like, here are all the people connected to the Clintons that have like died randomly. It's like, the list is crazy big. It's almost, I know I've seen it before. I don't know if it's confirmed. It's way past the coincidental range of people.

Yeah, they got suicide. I have something else that's crazy. And I'll have Andrew or Doug look up for me to confirm this cause it blew my mind. I actually heard Tony Robbins say it. Tony Robbins said this on an interview and I was like, get the fuck out of here. I gotta write this down so I tell the guys this cause it threw me way off. Tony Robbins said this on an interview, and I was like, get the fuck out of here.

I gotta write this down so I tell the guys this, because it threw me way off. Okay, 2007, iPhone 1 comes out. So, every iPhone, if you bought every iPhone from 2007 till now, you would have spent now $20,600 on iPhones. Okay, seems, that's logical math. Sure.

If instead of buying the iPhone, you put the exact same money that you would have bought the iPhone into buying the shares of the stock, how much would you have? Of Apple. Of Apple. Oh, wow.

How much would you have today? Oh my God. $200,000. $206 million. Whoa. What? Are you, dude. Wow.

Yeah, I found another version of this. This nuts. And it's even more money. 367 million. Is that insane? That's crazy, dude. I know, you're like me. You're like, you're gonna go like,

that doesn't even math, that can't be right, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's literally, look at it. Wow, that Tobiah, okay. I need my time machine. In Apple literally look at. Wow. That to buy. Okay. My time machine. In Apple stock, you'd be sitting pretty. Wow. Wow. That's crazy. Isn't that nuts?

Yeah. You know, it makes you, it makes you, it's almost like, of course, this is hindsight, right? But it's like, if you're watching culture around you and everybody's jumping on something and it's, it's like a cultural phenomenon, right? If you're watching culture around you, and everybody's jumping on something, and it's like a cultural phenomenon, if you're smart, you're thinking to yourself, how do I capitalize on everyone's behaviors moving in that direction right now, rather than jumping on board,

or just jumping on board and getting the phone yourself? That's crazy numbers right there. What's so interesting to me about that is just like, how many people are living paycheck to paycheck but they bought every iPhone and it's like that that's a little more than financial freedom right there. Dude I saw that I was floored is that not insane? That's crazy to me. I know. I'm speechless. I was the same. I did not believe so that number is even bigger than the one that he said and I was like no way. That's, I was the same. I did not, so that number is even bigger than the one that he said.

And I was like, no way. That makes me upset. It does. It hurts my gut. All right, I'll go into positive now. I just read an interesting study on, do you know that there's an exercise gender gap? Have you guys heard of this?

An exercise gender gap? It's actually, it's not what you think it is. So they did a big study on men and women and looked at the health effects of cardio, strength training, whatever. And they found in these studies that women get a larger positive effect in terms of mortality risk than men do with the same time being spent exercising. Is it? So in other words, I'll give you, I'll give you, watch this. risk than men do with the same time being spent exercising. In other words, I'll give you, watch this.

Men reach their maximal survival benefit from, and they talked about brisk walking and cycling on this one. Men reach their maximal survival benefit based on these studies. By doing this level of exercise about five hours per week, women got the same effect from two and a half hours a week in terms of the mortality effect benefit. Strength training, men reached their peak of benefits for mortality from three days a week. Women only needed one to get the same effect.

I'm trying to think of why that would be the case. Is it because of, I mean, is it, I mean, it'd be interesting to see if they tease out like professions and things like that. Is it because men are gonna be typically more physical, have more laborious type of jobs, like and so the difference of like that they would get benefit would take more physical strength in building,

which is if women have jobs that are less physical, it would take just a minimal amount for them to see. I have to really think about this and why this is the case. Off the top of my head, I do know that the female hormone profile is largely protective in comparison to the male hormone profile when it comes to longevity. We know this, right? Women live longer than men. And so I'm wondering if it has to do. We know this, right? Women live longer than men. And so I'm wondering if it has to do with that. I'm wondering if it has to do with how the male body

maybe, it's supposedly more resistant to physical stress, but does that also mean then the adaptations are not as big? It would mean that if we are more. Or maybe women get a negative effect when men would get a positive because of too much stress on the body. It's interesting.

I mean nonetheless, it's super fascinating. Very. They need way less. They need less and get better results. Or the same results with less work. Wow. So does that mean they have more stress in general or than men or is that like, I mean, that's,

I can't even speculate. Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I find it very, now here's this interesting as a, you know, when I manage gyms and stuff, the people that were more likely to overdo it were women. They were more likely to come in way too often, go too often. Oh, you, you think so? Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know if I agree with that. I don't know if I agree with that. Well, in terms of volume versus intensity, I would say men intensity and women in volume. Yes, just frequency and showing up and going on. Yeah, okay, I mean, because of course, like the clashes are geared towards attracting women. So the class mentality and philosophy of training, which, that's probably right.

But intensity was always my men like men are my my my female clients were reluctant to add weight to the bar and push themselves like that they were more comfortable with like oh I do this much weight for this exercise sticking to that it was hard to get them to push the intensity where men were always the opposite they were like oh I could do more and you're like no you shouldn't actually that's plenty for you. You're not, your form's already off. No, no, put more on there.

So from that perspective, I think men overdo it more. Interesting though, right? That is interesting. I gotta really think about what could potentially be. Yeah, I gotta bring something up. I was like, I had a day off Friday and I was just kind of like watching TV. I never watched daytime TV,

so this was all like an education for me. Uh, the commercials and two, like there's still like TV that's like network TV that has like commercials and have these. Only when I'm in hotels do I see it. I'm like, I'm always fascinated as like that hasn't evolved at all. It's just like, I just, I'm not used to it anymore. Uh, and there's this like brand of CBD that was pitching their product. And I was like, on TV. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just like, I just, I'm not used to it anymore. And there's this like brand of CBD that was pitching their product. And I was like,

On TV? Yeah, yeah. And I was like, how are they pitching this? And you know, what's their unique characteristics and like, how are they like trying to portray this? Cause you know, we know we work with like the best one out there, but they're talking about like emphasizing that the delivery system for it was superior to everybody else

and that you're gonna feel it almost immediately. Because of the delivery system? I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? What magical science is this? There isn't. You know what's funny is that- It's like the same that creatine follows. I was just gonna say, if a product comes out,

so we work with net, that's who you're referring to. And they're the best, they're the best in the market. But whenever something comes out that works, the next way to differentiate yourself is to come up with a better delivery system. Better delivery system. It is like creatine. It is, creatine was the same way too.

It's like, no, the best stuff is just the plain old boring shit. Or they pair it with something else, and they go, oh, you know. More effective. Yeah, because of these reasons. No, cannabinoids are very easily absorbed. They're liposomal, you take them with a fat or an oil,

they're typically in an oil. If you take it orally, you can absorb some of it through the mucosal membranes of the mouth, so you can put it under your tongue, or of course, vape it or smoke it. It's very well absorbed. It's not something that your body doesn't absorb or utilize very well.

There isn't a delivery of that problem. That's not like a huge pain point. No, no. I'm like, what is this? No, no, no, no. Interesting. I have something interesting for you guys. You guys, did you guys ever watch,

who watched the Shannon Sharp and the Cat Williams interview? I watched that. That was good. Did you watch that? Did you watch that? I watched about half of it. It was so good.

He was rolling like everybody else. So did you hear Shannon Sharp talk about how much money he made from that one interview from YouTube? Wow. How much? More than he made in any year of his playing in the NFL. Oh, wow.

Out of here. And from one, that's just from the, like. Just that one interview. You know how many advertisements. So I know his best year in the NFL, he made $5 million for the Broncos one year. No way. So it was more than how many views did he get? I don't know where it's at now. Maybe Andrew can pull it up and tell me where it's at. That was like a definitive interview. Like he like was coming out. Oh yeah. I mean he's like cat was, I felt like he's been put on the

map again right now. Like he's going all over the place now. I know he just did the big Joe Rogan one too, which by the way was a interview, too. I watched that was great. And they didn't even get into it. I didn't even get into like he didn't reference like, like because he was obviously talking about other comedians and was kind of, you know, throwing

shade. And that didn't even come up in the Joe Rogan interview. I was like really surprised by that. How many views, Andrew? Sixty one million. And you made and he made more than five million dollars.

It's a long interview. Yes. So they could. And so, I mean, and you know how, you guys know how Netflix, I mean how YouTube works, right? The, how long they stay connected. So it's like- So one video. Yeah, cause that's the thing that's always-

Cause you can get a lot of views on a tiny short video. What's so deceiving about how you get paid on YouTube is like you cannot just go by subscribers, you cannot just go by views because it's also how long they watch it. Because how long they're engaged. Yeah. Because so the way the ad revenue works on there is, so if you watch it, like if you watch that full interview, like I did by the time I finished the three

hours, I probably got hit with, I don't know, 20 YouTube ads. If you make it all the way through, if you only make it through the first five minutes, you only get one ad. Right. You know what I'm saying? That's all that's. And so the drop off rate really matters.

And so if it's a really engaging interview that goes three hours long that keeps a majority of that 60 million until the end, oh man, they're making, I mean, made over 5 million for sure, that one video. Isn't that crazy? Wow, that's crazy. Isn't that wild? We've got to get better at interviewing. I know. Made over five million for sure. That one video. Wow, that's crazy. Isn't that wild?

We gotta get better at interviewing. I know. You know what I mean? Who can we bring back to life that has been out of the... I got another thing that I came across that I thought was pretty cool too. So you remember when Elon went over to China and he was trying to work with them and they fucked him over and they basically stole all his information information like as far as like how he made Tesla. Do you guys remember that? Do you remember that was like we talked about on the show.

What was their their fall? It was like Lumen or I forget what. Yeah they tried something. Well they have they have a they have a new one called I wrote it down because I don't even know how to pronounce it. It's like Yang Yang Wang Yang Wang U9. Have you seen this car? No. This actually looks fucking sick. The name is Yang Wang. Yang Wang U9. It might be Yang Wang. Yang Wang. You nine. I don't It might be Yang Wang. Oh, Yang Wang. Sorry.

Could be. I don't know. Jumping my Yang Wang. It's their entry into the super car, dude. Oh, that looks kind of cool. Oh, it looks super cool, dude. What? Yeah. It's like a zero, zero to 60 and like, yeah, it's, it's supposed to be compete with those. Wow. So it's like zero to 60 in 2.3 or 2.5. I mean, that's, you're talking about your Lambo, you know, Aventador and- That's cool.

Yeah, isn't that cool? That is very cool. Pretty dope looking too. So you think that they stole his- Well, okay, so that's two different conversations. I was just asking if you remember that. So you talked to him on the show way back when. It was was when he

Went over there He was working out some sort of partnership with China And I'm sure somebody on the internet is gonna fucking slam me for this and correct me something like don't quote me on how it exactly played out, but I know he went over there to to bring Tesla over there and Remember everybody was giving him shit because he was over in China and he was working with China So everybody was giving him shit and then what ended up China and he was working with China and so everybody was giving him shit. And then what ended up happening was they basically shut it down or said no

after they already learned all the technology. So they basically brought him over. Just steal the tech. Said they were gonna introduce Tesla to the China market and all this stuff like that. And then they basically took all what they could learn from him and basically. There's a lot of companies that get their shit stolen

and then sold in China. This is happening a lot. A lot, a lot. How do you like, would you go sue them? Like what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? It's the government that's involved. Was it Shane Gillis or one of those comedians

was talking about that China is just the greatest copycat? Totally. Like even their success and their economy over there which people tout all the time, it's like they didn't create themselves anything. It's like they go over and they've ripped it off of somebody else. And then they provide all the factories

to build everything. And it's like, okay. I gotta show you, I sent you a text, I don't know if you can pull it up on the screen. I just learned this. Did you know, so medieval churches or churches that are old, they have like carpenters and painters going and decorate them.

And did you guys know that oftentimes, painters or carpenters in corners of the church up at the top or whatever, look at this picture, a carpenter did like a little, he- He's a little nut sack. Yeah, he put that in the car. Oh my God, that's even worse. No way.

So what they do, this isn't a church, what they'll do is they'll do like a carving or a picture. Kind of like. Tell me Justin would never be the first one. 100% would do some shit like this. And nobody's going to see it because it's way up in the clouds. Yeah, it's in the detail. Yeah, it's way up in the corner somewhere.

But it's like their way of putting their little prank or whatever. You know what I mean? So this is not the only one. There's like, there's lots of stuff like this where they'll find them be like who did that? Okay so that's been happening forever. That makes me that that makes me think that's exactly what happened with the whole Disney movies too. Yes. With the editors and all the... We haven't changed dude. The animators. Yes they threw little little things in

there that look sexual and funny and really it was just a like... It's just with your friends. Yeah. Hey bro watch this. Pause it at 30 seconds. Probably the majority isn't as nefarious. It's just yeah, people that are just joking and trying to get money. I mean you would too, I totally would. Totally. Yeah, if I was doing something like that,

I'd be like hey, go check out the top right hand corner. I used to do this training my salespeople. So it's full disclosure, it could sound like an asshole, but when I was training my salespeople, I would do what's called a TO, and a TO is a turnover. You go in, you take over the presentation, and you're presenting the membership to the gym, or whatever, and your salesperson's listening

to how you're presenting. And when I would do this, you do this 50 times a day, and you're with these people for 12 hours. So you get to learn to have fun with it. So you have fun with it. So I would throw in body parts that don't exist, and exercises that I made up, and the person sitting across from me doesn't know that I just made it up but my sales guy knows. My salesmen are

laughing. And so I would do. I used to do the same thing. I'm sure. We used to even have things where like you would tell each other you'd bet like I'm gonna go in this presentation and I bet you I find a way to insert this word. Yes. Like some random ass words. There's no way you're gonna fit that in there. Yes dude. And you would find a way to get it in the conversation. It was like, yeah, yeah, no. I actually think there's a lot of, for what we're talking about, there's a lot of value to that,

like learning that art of being able to communicate that well that you can be having this serious conversation and then find a way to insert that. And then the next person, they're trying not to laugh. Yeah. Like, I did it. I know. For sure.

Anyway, I got a shout out. So a book that I read years ago, and I just thought about the other day, a really impactful book for me called The Peaceful Warrior. Have you guys ever read that? Heard of that book? Uh-uh. Really, really good. Dan Millman. Excellent book to read. And it was, I know why I came up. I got interviewed and someone asked me about my spiritual journey. That was one of the first books that got me to kind of like start moving in that direction. It's not a, it's not a religious book. It's nothing like that. It's very well written book,

but it made you open up to like the legitimacy of like spiritual practices. There was a movie based on everything too. Really good book. Yeah. That's it right there. Yeah. It's about this gymnast that meets this homeless guy and the homeless guy ends up like becoming his mentor It's a really cool. Oh, is it is it fictional? It's fictional. Oh, well, I think he said it was true I don't remember I think it's a combination. Yeah I did and I actually saw the movie too. Yeah, how was the movie? It was pretty good. Yeah, Nick Nolte Yeah, I remember as a kid. I used to say I don't read books. I don't want to ruin the movie.

Element is an electrolyte powder you add to your water that has the right amount of sodium for better muscle contractions and performance. No artificial sweeteners, no sugar. And again, it's got the right amount of sodium. Most electrolyte powders are too low in sodium to even make a difference. Go check out Element. Go to drinklmnt.com forward slash mind pump and on that link you'll get a free sample pack with any order. Alright back to the show. Our first caller is Matt from Alaska. What's up man? How you doing? Good bro, how you doing? Pretty good. I just want to ask you guys, are you How are you doing? Good bro. How you doing?

Good. I just want to ask you guys, are you guys nervous right now? Very nervous every time I'm sweating. Oh, thanks for calling in, man. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Yeah. So what I want to run by you guys is, you know, put it some of the, on the note that I sent in, but man, about three and a half, four years ago, I was in a really bad place, uh, mentally, physically, and spiritually. I was sick, I couldn't figure out what was going on, kept going to the doctor, they saw that I was anemic, they put me on some iron transfusions, that didn't quite do it. They thought it was some bleeding from an ulcer, so we dressed that. I just

kept getting sicker and sicker and energy was getting worse and worse. I quit working out, I couldn't make it to the gym, I just didn't have any energy. I got depressed and I was realized later that my hemoglobin level was so low I was barely functioning. I was hypoxic pretty much all the time and ended up in the ICU once and they thought well we think it was just a you know gastric ulcer so they gave me some medicine for that but didn't really fix anything and. And then slowly and surely happened again. It's about two and a half years, I called the ER and went in and they found that my human building levels had fallen to a five. And I remember, you know, the surgeon sitting there looking at me and he said, you know, when you get below a seven, you could have irreversible brain damage. And this was a gradual thing that nobody noticed. And I said, well, I don't know, I worked

for the government. They no one seemed to pay any attention whatsoever. And I said well I don't I work for the government they no one seemed to pay attention whatsoever and I said well at least you have your sense of humor and long story short they went into it and what it said in there too is I got this power even just to fall asleep at night I was starting to you know use alcohol and drink too much and just because I was such a bad place not to justify you that behavior but that that's what happened. Turns out finally they went in and realized that I had colon cancer and what had occurred is I've been bleeding for about two years and just could not get that level back up. And then the poor sleep, poor diet, you know, alcohol then exacerbated all of that. Got that taken care of.

It not spread was not in my lymph nodes to remove that section. And also then took the time when I was in the hospital to reach out and got some help with some of the substance abuse issues I was dealing with, in this case it was alcohol, as well as starting to work with therapists and building my life back mentally, physically and spiritually. So I mean, I was at 1.357 pounds, a lot larger than him now. Started to work out, gotten a diet and exercise, saw how important all of those were, the physical, the mental, the spiritual, every single day.

And decided I wanted to help other people. So became a certified personal trainer about two and a half years ago. And now I've been reaching out to the local program we have here. They have a center for people in recovery for alcohol or other types of addictive substances. And I'm volunteering there and I'm trying to get my foot in the door to work for them and just help their clients on a volunteer and we're paid basis to do some training.

Couldn't quite get that to work out. Finally ended up working here at a local gym. They're looking for somebody and I want to just kind of use these skills more and started training people there. And now as it works out that this recovery center has reached out to that gym, happened working at, we're going to start bringing out clients it looks like. So my question is, I'm going to have about 12 people showing up at once, you know, in this van, all in early recovery, all different stages. And I've done a few of the group fitness classes.

I've taught a few of those and I was not my favorite thing to do, but it gets my name out there, which is good. I'm able to look a lot of clients through that. But what would you guys do if you got, say, 12 people showing up? They got about an hour and a half, two hours and all different level. The 19 year old, the 60 year old, the different stages of their life. But what I'm trying to do is instill this as a lifetime thing.

And none of this, 30 days you'll get ripped and you get out of recovery, nothing like that. This isn't like a prison workout routine. This is some small things you can do, small changes to make for the rest of your life to make profound results. And any advice you guys have would be greatly appreciated. Yeah, man.

Well, first off, a tremendous story, Matt. Yeah. God bless you, man. That's, that's incredible. Now you're, you're paying back by helping other people. So I love hearing stuff like that. When you're, when you're working with the group, I think the wrong approach is to try to give them all a workout.

I think that, that tends to result in an inappropriate workout for a large section of the people because like you said you have a wide range of individuals in there from 19 to 60 so it'd be very difficult dealing with just this full workout. So I think the best approach or I feel very strongly the best approach would be to have a mobility component which benefits everybody and then it would be to teach them to focus on one or two specific exercises and make that the whole course. So in other words, today we're gonna learn

the barbell squat. And then you do a mobility session leading up to that. Might take 20, 30 minutes. And then you give everybody a squat variation that they can start with. So maybe the 19 year old is getting into the bar and the 60 year old is just doing a bodyweight squat. It's all the same biomechanics.

You're watching everybody go through the squat and you're having everybody do the rep at the same time. Then you're pausing during the session and you're walking around correcting everybody's technique and form as they're doing it. Think of it more as instruction rather than the workout. Now the side effect is they're going to get somewhat of a workout while they do it as well, but I think they'll get much more benefit from it that way. And then of course that also builds a nice community,

which I think is going to benefit these individuals quite a bit because they're, they're in recovery. So hopefully they develop a relationship with each other during this process. Yeah. You want them to walk away, learning something and feeling something. And so that's why I would lean even harder into the mobility side of it. Cause not a lot of people even pay that much attention to, you know, getting into right positions, feeling what it feels like to be an optimal posture to walk away after going

through a good mobility session, they're going to feel like a million dollars. And this is just something that's going to kind of spark a conversation within them that they can do diff, they can do fitness a little bit differently. Yeah, I, I do agree. There's, there's value in also like learning, like some of the, the compound movements and maybe taking one specifically like the squat, like Sal

was mentioning. But you're going to find, I don't know how much time you have with this, but I mean, an hour is going to go up really quick just trying to teach them new moves mobility-wise that they can benefit from with their hips, their shoulders, you know, their ankles, like just focusing on those. Like basically what Adam did in our webinar, I think would be a perfect way to handle that. Matt, did you see, we just had a live caller. Doug, did that air already? The, our friends with the podcast on recovery, addiction and they're from Florida?

That may be going up today. Oh wow. Okay, so we actually just had this question, two guys actually are in the podcast space. We met them in person in Florida, a couple of real good dudes, both were, I think they're like 12 years recovering addicts themselves and they've been felt compelled to now help others. They've built a podcast and a lot of it centered around health and fitness and they were really asking us almost the exact same question.

Like what they were finding was, you finding was putting these guys through these workouts, they were seeing that they were trading their other addictions into this fitness obsession. And so they're just over intensifying the workouts, not recovering properly, just beating themselves up. And they were justifying that behavior because they've just traded the alcohol or drug addiction for now, this fitness addiction. they're asking us like how to prevent that, you know, or what would you guys do? So very similar and then all of us are going to saying this kind of the same thing because we kind of worked this out on air with them and talked about some of the challenges with what you do. And I agree with what both guys are saying is like,

that's what you got to be cautious of is that you don't want to turn it into this bootcamp military prison style type workout because those guys or girls will take it to the extreme. And there's a lot, there's so much to learn about the squat, the deadlift, the overhead press. In fact, I would literally take from us the content that we've already provided for free out there. Justin brought up the webinar that I did on Prime Pro. That's a 50 minute workout right there. It was like, and by the way, I don't know if you know the evolution of that

or how the origin of that, but the origin of that, because you brought up the bootcamp. So I used to run boot camps all over the Bay Area and I had this moment, it was after a few years of doing it, where I just felt guilty because I knew better. I knew what was better for these clients. And I had the average age was probably somewhere between 55 and 60 in

this class and I was doing all this circuit training stuff and when I looked at most of them, sure we had moments of losing 15 pounds here or there, but at the end of the day they all look kind of look the same, move the same, same issues, yet they were staying with me for years and I'm like, am I really helping these people out? And after I moved on past the boot camps, this guilt was still weighing on me. So I offered up these free classes on Saturday, totally free for anybody who took my boot camps.

And I would teach that mobility class. And what I found was those people in that 50 minutes, I could impact them right away. Like they would get up, and I used to do this at the beginning of the class, I would have them cold, no warmup would get up, and I used to do this at the beginning of the class. I would have them cold, no warmup, no straight, no, do 20 bodyweight squats, just so they could feel and see their movement. And then I would take them through this mobility class. And then at the end, I would have them do the 20 squat bodyweight squats again.

So they could really like, Whoa, I can get down further. Oh, my back doesn't hurt. And oh my god, I just think they would feel what what that was doing or what it was providing for them. And so I love giving a class something like that. And then I also love the idea of, okay, this, you know, next four weeks of meeting together, we're going to we're going to learn all things the squat, all the different variations, the progressions, the regressions of it, the common deviations of the knees collapsing into the heels rising to the chest falling forward to the arms falling forward. Why? Why does this happen? And then how important, why is the squat so important and fundamental?

And I would literally go through our YouTube channel and our podcast and sir or use the AI and search for all the things like, you know, we've done a master class on the squat. We've done a master class on the on the both on a recorded podcast and then we've done YouTube videos, we've had all kinds of brilliant professionals that are even better than we are at what we do come in and teach the squat and I would take little nuggets from all of them and then put together your own kind of like, you know, philosophy or teaching and that's kind of how I would approach a class like that that's so diverse that I know deep down just running them through a bunch of exercises randomly in an hour is really not doing them that greatest service

other than just keeping them busy and burning calories. Yeah. Do you have, do you have maps prime pro? I don't have crime pro. Um, I have pretty much most of all the other programs, but I did watch, of course, the webinar, and I kind of used that when I was teaching that class, I called resistance training with research, introduction to train with resistance band, but half of it was using those movements you showed in that webinar. It was really cool when I was teaching that one night over half the

people that were taking it were in recovery, that I had reached out to and said I'm gonna start working formally with you guys But for now and so there was about eight or people in there in the recovery and someone actually at the end of the program God up who was not recovery program community just one of the members of the gym and she went out and she sat down I had a cardiac episode and They came in a ring and got me I went out there She was in the locker room at that point Some people from my class were in recovery went in the rain and got me. I went out there. She was in the locker room at that point. Some people from my class that were in recovery went in the locker room.

Everyone knew there was a guy coming in and helped guide everybody out. Someone else came in and got a 911 and called. And we got EMS there. And I was able, with my background, able to take vital signs and reassure her. I remember I asked her like four questions. And these are in order of most importance.

Number one is, what have you had to eat today? Did you have any medication? Do you have any allergies? And last question, most important, how'd you like the class? And she calmed down and her respiration slowed down. But the reason I told you that was neat is I'm standing out there in the hallway with like seven or eight people in the recovery program and they all looked around and said, holy cow, do you realize that instead of, you know, pulling from society, being in trouble, having the police come for us?

We're actually responding to helping someone else in need The police station called 911 and then when they came in the door We were happy to see them and that was really neat to watch them be of service And so I think two things one is that would definitely do the mobility aspect I love the aspect of concentrating one compound movement kind of building from there And when they get done it when I reach out and I think maybe the additional thing would one compound movement, kind of building from there. And when they get done, I want to reach out. And I think maybe the additional thing would be how can they be of service to others? Maybe how they can teach this to the next people in recovery. And I hadn't thought about

that until I just, you know, brought that up about the mobility training aspect, how they were able to take that and be of service to the community instead of being the opposite, which is pretty neat. That's awesome. Yeah. Matt, we'll send you maps. We're gonna send you Maps Prime Pro. That's awesome. Yeah, I love that. Matt, we'll send you, we're gonna send you Maps Prime Pro because the mobility movements in there, I think you'll be able to gain a lot of value from for this class, we'll send that to you. And just building on what you just said,

I love this idea and maybe you come up with a catchy name or philosophy around the course of like, let's learn this so we could teach someone else. I'm already like putting together like how my first opening state or conversation would be was like, I would first sell the idea on how impactful a full range of motion body weight squat is to like just functionality and the importance of it,

the benefits of it, and then the benefits of being able to get to a point where we can load it and build strength. And then selling them on this idea of like, I'm going to give you guys the tools to not only do that yourselves, but then also be able to help others in your family figure out why they can't do that. And I love that. I think that's such a cool resilient and pass it on. Yeah, I think that's such a cool, valuable thing that you could teach to class.

They're going to get, they're going to build strength while doing it. You're going to address mobility issues. And then hopefully you give them enough education around movement patterns and why they couldn't do it that they can go then pass it on to somebody else and then be fulfilled. I think that's amazing. Yeah, and on the recovery community,

they use the real short expression of clean house to address your internal issues first, trust God, higher powers are there than us, and help others. Those are the three pins above any good recovery program that's exactly what this would be operating it with to do. Love that. That's great, man.

Well, thanks, man. Thanks for calling in. We'll send you Prime Pro. Yeah, I'd love to hear from you now. You're doing awesome work, man. As you go through it, I'd love for you to circle back and keep us posted. Will do.

All right, man. Thank you, Matt. You know, that's why I love trainers so much, is a lot of trainers become trainers because they wanna help others. They see the value of what it did for them, then they wanna help others. And he's gonna be so effective.

Oh yeah, it's gonna be powerful, especially with the people he's reaching out to. I mean, incredible. Yeah, I just, we've talked about this a couple times now about group training and stuff like that, and I love this idea of, I mean, incredible. Yeah, I just, we've talked about this a couple of times now about group training and stuff like that. And I love this idea of, I mean, it's cool. I've actually got to see this and I don't know if you guys have experienced this with the wives

or close friends or what with that, but, you know, getting Katrina to train, you know, strength trained properly the right way was a major thing in our relationship. She was an athlete, but she never trained like really. She trained a lot of the cliche ways that old athletic trainers would train clients. And so breaking that down and teaching her and then really improving her squat and her deadlift, it's really cool to watch her turn around and do that to her friends and help them and stuff like that. And so I think that idea of like making this class about that is like, man, we

can re the impact that you can make getting the average person to go from either not being able to squat or not being able to squat properly to learning how to, to squat with really good form and technique. That is so valuable in itself that you can make a massive impact by just really learning all the nuances of that and helping others do that. It's kind of ironic. It's like going through recovery,

but also learning how to recover properly. Sure. Love it. Our next caller is Donald from Missouri. Donald, what's up, man? How can we help you? Hey, guys. How's it going?

Good. What's going on, man? Good. Hey, I want to try not to show my fanboy here, because I'm pretty nervous. And if you guys are cool with it, I'll just dive right to show my fanboy here because I'm just, I'm pretty nervous. And if you guys are cool with it, I'll just dive right in. Do it. Yeah.

Awesome. All right. So first of all, I just, you know, thank you guys. Thank you for providing such wonderful information and cutting through the fitness spaces, marketing BS, and giving the general public, like myself, actionable ways to improve their fitness and health. You've changed my life, you've changed countless others, and I'm proud to be part of the resistance trading

revolution, and I just can't thank you enough. That being said, I'm gonna read my email verbatim because I promised my fiance, hi Rachel, that I wouldn't ramble on and make bad jokes, and this is the best way to keep me from doing that. Yeah, you got it. I love bad jokes, come on. All right.

Dear team, my phone. I hope this message finds you well. My name is Donnie, a 40 year old male who embarked on a lifting journey about a year and a half ago, despite the challenges posed by my pigeon breast condition, which makes it my makes chest muscle development, particularly difficult for me. I remained dedicated to improving my physical health and strength. After discovering I had a testosterone deficiency, I started TRT therapy three months ago, which significantly

boosted my energy levels alongside prioritizing sleep and protein intake. I've seen a dramatic change in my body composition, thanks in large part to your RGB bundle. Currently, I'm in phase two of mat symmetry and thoroughly enjoying it. However, my chest development remains a stubborn issue. Despite utilizing focus sessions and chest mods, progress is slow. This brings me to my burning questions. Is my pigeon breast condition severely limiting my ability to grow my chest muscles?

Could this also be affecting my performance and other lifts? If so, which ones are most likely to be impacted? Your insights and advice would be invaluable to me as I navigate these challenges. Sincerely, Flat Chest Cheetum, AKA Donnie, AKA Iron Don Solo. Looking at your picture. First of all, you look really good, bro.

Yeah, great. So you don't have, I mean, okay, so the technical term, is it pectus cavernum or something like that, right, for pigeon? You've been officially diagnosed? Yes, when I was younger and I didn't really know much of anything about it I just knew I was embarrassed to take my shirt off and then okay. That's all I really had Well, I'm looking at your picture it doesn't seem too bad because sometimes what will happen with this condition if it's really bad is it'll impact your ability to

Expand your diaphragm. It can cause fatigue and stuff like that. That doesn't seem to be an issue for you? That is not an issue for me. No, it's more, I just feel like I, and I know that chest is a lagging muscle part for a lot of people, but it's always felt like it's just been extremely difficult. Everything else seems to want to grow

and my body composition changed so rapidly in this timeframe that I've kind of been running the you know the RGB bundle and everything but that that part of me just doesn't seem to want to want to progress. You're tripping. You're tripping. You seem pretty balanced based on your picture. Your chest is bigger than cells. I mean this is you're doing just fine. You're doing just fine bro., uh, now how long have you been lifting for consistently? Obviously you've been lifting for a while. I can tell. So, um, actually I, so I was at 240 pounds and I started with like cardio until I found you guys. And on December 1st of 2022, I started actually lifting,

not using like a hitch app on my phone. Dude, you're, you're okay. Listen, so I, at one point, not only did I have like a bird concave looking chest, I was also in balanced where one side was more developed than the other. And when I was working out for the first three or four years of my life, my chest wasn't even even, it was an absolute mess. Now it's one of my favorite body part, or my wife's favorite body parts on me, but it took a decade of working towards that. It's just, we build muscle slow.

If it's a challenging area, it's gonna take you a little bit longer. I can tell you right now though, by where your physique is right now, you're- You look pretty balanced. You look really good. I don't see any asymmetry. No, no.

It doesn't look like you're unbalanced. I mean, the old rules of prioritizing a body part would apply here, so train it first in your sessions. Focus on the connection. If you feel like your delts, you know, take over, typically people with issues with chest development, when they do pressing, their shoulders and triceps tend to take over.

So when you press, try to focus on the chest muscles, take volume away from strong body parts and move it towards the chest, train with frequency. I mean, just those old rules, but I mean, you just started lifting and you look pretty balanced. I don't I think you're fine. I know you I know you want those answers from Sal but I'm gonna give you the answer that you really need to hear which is like this is just this is part of it we all have insecurities about our physiques okay we all the reason why when I threw that

jab at Sal it still burned a little bit inside of him because that's like you know cuz that that's still that hurts you, cause that, that's still, that hurts. You know what I'm saying? That's a, that's a, that's a deep rooted insecurity. No, for sure. I'll get it. I know it, but I mean, speak up though. Is it not true? Is it true or not true? Of course. We all, we all have it. Okay. We all, we all have, and I don't, I don't think, I don't think you could build a good enough physique to

completely go away. No, it'll always kind of be there until you work on that, until you work on accepting your physique and loving your physique for the way that you're in great shape. I bet you your wife never says shit. Yeah. I bet you she never say nothing about you. Don't tell bad jokes. Yeah, exactly. She ain't saying nothing about your chest. You know what I'm saying? And no, what it, no, or what any other girl that you took your shirt off. Well, she got a diagnosis, right? And like that's just something that kind of stays there, I'm sure. Yeah, but I can't even tell if I, if you were my client, I wouldn't be able to see that you had that condition because it looks like you were able to expand your rib cage out pretty well.

So, you know, because that's something we're aware of as trainers. If you see that and it's significant significant then there are some considerations but I wouldn't even be able to notice by looking at your picture. Yeah I mean Sal gave tips to keep you know to keep growing the chest on the way. Another thing to pay attention to is a lot of guys when they when they bench they let their shoulders roll forward a little bit and the shoulders and arms take a little bit more of the movement. So being very aware of that, right? Staying, that was an area. So that was my big problem was I had bad form. I just had bad form. I was allowing my right

shoulder to roll forward every time I pressed. And so it just wasn't developing the same as the left. You focused a lot on the incline bench for a while. Yeah. So incline became one of my favorite because it kind of naturally rolls the shoulders back and down. And so that put me in a good natural position to lift. So yeah, paying attention to your technique. I mean, I'm not training you so I don't see your your bench pressing so be critical of your form. Don't sacrifice your form to load the bar more because you're so desperate to build your chest more because that'll only work against you. Form technique is so important to engaging the chest. Getting a good

stretch in the chest, a lot of exercises. Good stretch, full range of motion, stay connected to it, squeeze at the end, open all the way up. I mean these are all tips to help but at the end of the day you've only been lifting consistently for a couple years and you look as good as you do, this is mostly a thing in your head than anything else. I mean you look great, you're doing great and you you know, we all have a muscle group that develops fast and then the other ones that develop slow. That's just part of us all being genetically unique. Like, you probably, your arms probably explode when they just, you touch way through your back. Like everybody has like an area where they feel like, man, I barely have to work that and it responds well. And then I have

the other area, it's like, God, it's so stubborn. I hit it so hard and it just doesn't group. But that's everybody. We all have it. And you got to get out of your own head. Yeah, I appreciate that. I wonder too. And you know, this helps. I appreciate you guys meeting with me to discuss that

because you wonder, is it enough calories? Is it my testosterone? Is that the issue? No. I couldn't find any real good information. It's all muddied about how it actually affects the muscle development. So I thought this helps a lot. I appreciate it. any real good information. It's all muddied about how it actually affects, you know, the muscle development. So I thought, you know, this, this helps a lot.

I appreciate it. Yeah. I know you're doing good, dude. You're doing good. Yeah. Just follow the old principles of, of prioritizing a body part and you're, you'll be, you'll be set and stay consistent. Okay.

Yeah. That sounds great. I will. You got it, man. Adam's like, you know, we all have insecurity, so I'm going to highlight Sal. Just to give you, guys. Thank you. Adam's like, you know, we all have insecurities, so I'm gonna highlight Sal. Just to give you an example. Oh, shit.

I mean, it's true, though. Of course, everybody. Yeah, we all do. And that's just part of this game, dude. It's like, I mean, dude, he looks great. I will say this, with body parts that are lagging, what we tend to do in our training is we don't slow down and try to feel that muscle. And when I do that, when I've done that, or now that I do that,

now I see significant improvements. Whereas before I was worried about the weight on the bar. I know I love that. I love full range of motion, really like staying there and isometrically contracting to be able to feel it. Once you really get that connection, I feel like now, uh, you know, going through the reps is a different experience. I got to see dig through if I got some old pictures, but I had a horrible chest. Horrible. I mean, it was flat. It wasn't even. It was just, it was terrible. And I was weak. It was, all the above was bad. It just, it took a while. And that was a big part of it. Like my insecurities

around it drove my intensity in the training it versus slowing it down, taking it through full range, having to probably light, because I was already weak. You know how embarrassing it is when you're a young man, I can't even bench the big plates. And so actually- And now you gotta slow down

if you're gonna lift? Yeah, so now I gotta take the weights down even lighter than it already is and go really slow. Like, I mean, that's all in your head, but doing that is what built my chest. Well, that's why I've always been in a perma-bulk, dude. Trying to make me feel better. Yeah, here it is.

Me too. I have bony-ass shoulders, dude. I'd never liked to be skinny. I was always conscious of that. We all got our shit. That's it. I got a wife beater body. Our next caller is Rafael from New York. Rafael, what's up, man? What up? What's up, guys? What's

going on? How you doing? Hey, hey. I'm like kind of like starstruck right now. We ain't that cool. How's that? Everything good? We're good, dude. Good, man. How you doing? Hey, listen, there was a poll going on in Facebook about whose team who did who ended up winning that one. Justin, of course, you were just it's exactly how I said it would end up. It was Justin was a far first place. Sal and I were neck and neck for worst. Oh, man. Oh, man. That's so good. Yeah, it's all good. Yeah. Yeah. I sandbagged. Can't win them all. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Well, currently I have like a little problem going on. Not a little problem, but I'm 30, I'm 40 years old. I'm 5'10", according to my wife. I think I'm 5'11". Always cut you down. I run around, I'm around 2'08", as of this morning, I'm a two away and I've been

working around out for five years now. It's been like, I just feel like I just do not grow at all. I do not grow. I tried the, the bulk. I tried the, the cutting. I tried everything that you guys say do I stick to it and it's just like I mean I see some gains but I just do not See what I with thought I was seeing after five five years of working out

I'm currently I just hit a PR deadlift of 300 Bench for four I only could do about 175 and squat 175 also. Um, I did hire, uh, an online coach from, um, the, the mass forum. And, um, can you shout him out? Yeah. Alex Gladwell from GW fitness. He's a great, great guy.

I like Gladwell from GW fitness. He's a great, great guy. Um, I also got my testosterone tested, which was at three 86 NG dash DL, whatever. And, um, yeah. And just, I ran anabolic before I ran performance. I ran, um, right now running a map split. And I love split. Yeah. I could hit the gym six days a week. I work my whole schedule around pretty much working out in the mornings and then I work nights.

So it works out for me and I get my seven, eight hours of sleep. But yeah, I have a question for you, Rafa. Because typically my clients that would say something like this to me, right? Been training five years. I feel like I listen to what you say. I'm just not seeing the results. There tends to be two, one or two or both these culprits. And so I want you to be honest with me and tell me which one you struggle the most with.

It's either one, really consistent, meaning I never miss the gym and I'm consistent all the time I hit my workouts or two, I'm really inconsistent with hitting my protein intake every single day. If you were to fail at one of them, which one is it? I would say most likely the protein. I mean, I get my protein, my one grams of protein. Sometimes I think I over overreach. But the gym, I do not miss the gym. That's like my sanctuary. I love being in there.

Yeah. Do you use a do you use a like a my fitness pal or fat secret? Do you track? Do you track your yeah, yeah, I use. Yeah, I use an app right now. That's the thing. I don't know if I as of now, like if I was to start over, I just don't know if I should like stay with the cut with if I should like stay with

the cut, with a little cut or stay with a bulk or I just don't know what direction to go in. You started, when did you start working with the coach? I started working with him a couple years back, but I left him because of, I just wanted to see if something was different. I wanted to see if I was like, I wanted to push myself more and I just, I don't know, I just, I was just everywhere. I was everywhere and I was just trying to take a vise and just see some, some type

of answers and I just seemed not to find it. So testosterone, a total testosterone reading of 383 is, is, is on the low end. In fact, you're almost, uh, uh, under the range of what we is on the low end. In fact, you're almost under the range of what we'd be considered in range. Now, I don't know how long your testosterone's been at that, but there are some lifestyle factors that tend to contribute to that. One of them is overtraining.

Diet is the other one. Lack of sunlight or vitamin D deficiency would be another one. Or zinc. Zinc deficiency, sleep would be another one. A testosterone total of 383 you said? 386. Yeah that'll make it hard to build muscle. That'll make it hard. You want to get your levels typically at least in the 600 range. Are you, do you notice any other signs of low testosterone like energy, libido, drive, motivation? Um, no, I actually have, um, good libido.

I have good energy throughout the day. Um, my drive is, you know, I, I, I get my, my eight hours of seven to eight hours of sleep and that's why at first I thought it was a testosterone, but then it's just like, I don't know, maybe it's my age. Maybe it's just, maybe it's just everything altogether. So usually it isn't testosterone, but if I see someone's testosterone in the 300s or lower, although you're not showing any of the symptoms, but typically I'll look there because that'll make it hard. Do you know what your free testosterone was at by any chance? No, I just got like those regular like blood tests. I decided, hey, let me just,

I didn't know there was so when I heard you me just, I didn't know there was so, when I heard you guys talk, I didn't know there was like so many different, um, like levels of getting your testosterone tested and stuff like that. So typically, uh, I mean, that's, that's border. So like usually under 250 or 300, typically under 300 is out of range and you're almost there, right? So like the average healthy male at your age, uh, typically would,

we'd want to be at least in the six hundreds. Um, so what I would look at are, or, or, or anything in your life that could be contributing to that. So I would look at nutrient deficiencies. So zinc, vitamin D, those two things I would, I would get tested. You can work with a functional medicine practitioner to see if there's anything you could do to bring those levels up naturally. And in my experience, 80% of the time we could take someone's testosterone if

they're measuring like that and double it with, with lifestyle changes. Now there is that other 20% where we don't, we're not able to really make an impact in which case, and how old are you Rafael? 40. Yeah. So, you know, there's that other 20, 15 to 20% in my experience again, where then testosterone replacement therapy becomes, uh, the, the option, but there's a large percentage majority where you make lifestyle changes and

then you see a huge boost, um, in testosterone and then that makes a big difference with your training, but I wouldn't follow a program like map split I know you like the gym, but that's such a high volume training program. I would have you follow a maps anabolic Protocol or a maps 15 advanced protocol for now until you kind of figure that until you kind of figure that out All right. Yeah, cuz the split the volume on split is I honest, look, for me, that's a little too much volume. A lot. And I've been working out for years and I'm on TRT, and split is a lot of volume for me.

I'm gonna have Doug. 15 would be good. I'm gonna have Doug give you maps 15 so you have that, and then also put you in the forum. Thank you, I'm on the forum already, guys. Oh, you are, okay. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, man, I'm in there.

So, yeah, and I'm with Sal on you really trying to dial in all these things, other factors, to see if we can get those levels up. I'm also, if you check in for a month every week with your average calorie intake, so basically track every day your food on whatever app you're using, and then at the end of the week, post in the forum, I averaged 2,700 calories a day, your food, on whatever app you're using, and then at the end of the week, post in the forum, I averaged 2,700 calories a day, 192 grams of protein,

130 grams of fat, 240 grams of carbs, whatever the numbers are, you post that for every week, for a month, I think we'll have some really good idea between that and then trying to figure out the sleep thing and moving you to more like an anabolic or a mass 15, I think we'll have some answers. Yeah, cause split's gonna be just too much volume for most people regardless.

All right. And should I stay like in my maintenance or should I go like under my maintenance or? For now stay right around with your maintenance. Yeah, I would stay at maintenance. Yeah, for now stay at maintenance. That's why I want you just to kind of track, eat when you're hungry, make good food choices,

hit your protein intake. That's the only real advice for food I wanna give you. You know what, Rafael, go to mphormones.com. You already have your blood test, right? So go in there, fill out a form, tell them we recommended you, and talk to the doctors or the specialists over there because they are hormone specialists.

And see, because there are interventions that they could also do that involve nutrients, but also involve medications that don't put you on TRT, but rather get the testosterone to come up naturally and they take you off. Like HCG or something? Yeah, like HCG and Clomaphene, those types of things. So go to mphormones.com,

and since you already have your test, you'll be able to give it to them, and then they'll see if there's any of the tests they wanna do with you. But the testosterone's a big one you'll be able to give it to them. And then they'll see if there's any of the tests they want to do with you. But the testosterone is a big one. Uh, when you, when it starts to get down to that level, that's when you start to notice effects typically. Yeah.

I mean, I never, I never, I never felt what it was to have higher than that. So I don't, I don't know what it is to feel this. This is normal to me, what I feel now. But when I hear you guys talk saying that you think that's normal and then you, it rises up, then all of a sudden it's like, what a game changer. That was Sal's story, right? That was me, dude. That was Sal's story.

And I was doing, I mean, and I was doing everything, you know, working out, sleep, supplements, the whole deal. My levels were a little lower than yours, but it was in that range. I was below 300, but not too far from where you were. And the difference between, you know, where I was to where I, you not, but not too far from where you were and the difference between, you know, where I was to where I, you know, now in, in, and how it affected my body is profound. It's absolutely profound, uh, in, in a difference because I went from low to

high. Now there's a lot of guys who are kind of in the middle and they think that, you know, going on TRT is going to make this big difference. It won't, but if it's low, then it tends to make a big difference. But like you, Rafael, I didn't have an issue with libido. That's what I thought. That's why I was confused. But libido isn't necessarily always driven by testosterone, although it usually is.

There's lots of other things that affect libido, but I will say this when I went on TRT, I had my libido was like when I was 15 years old, so that's that, that might be an issue, might want to let your wife know ahead of time. Yeah. Right. All right. I get that. Yeah. She hears it now.

Yeah, so. That's what I think. All right. Yeah, but go to mphormones.com and talk to them too. You got it, man. And then we'll see you in the forum too, all right? Yep. Definitely.

I definitely want to thank you guys for everything. I mean, absolutely everything. I, long story short, pretty much, I was never into fitness at all. And, um, you know, like everybody else in COVID, you know, I got into it. I was really heavy. I was, um, I went, I did it from 300. Then dropped all the way to two 30 something. And then when I got the, um, Alec, um, the, the personal online coach, he dropped me all the way down

to 185. And then I went back up. And I just fell in love with fitness. I found you guys and I just like I never listened to a podcast before in my life. And I found you guys on YouTube and I just don't not miss a day now. Thank you guys. Thank my day. You guys make me laugh.

It is like Adam picking on on Dougie all the time. It's just, it makes my day. It makes my life easier, man. And tell you that I really appreciate you guys a lot. Thank you for everything you do. Thank you. Thank you for the support. Hey, we'll see you inside the forum, brother. Say hi to Donatello. Have a good one man, take it easy guys. Justin. And Leonardo. God damn it. You know, yeah, 383 total depends what it's free is too.

That's typically considered. Well yeah, we just got more information right there that I didn't realize too. I mean, he's dropped a ton away and that tends to happen when someone goes on a low calorie diet for a really long time like that. That'll suppress testosterone too. So yeah, you know, it might be as simple as just hopping on some ACG to shoot it back up.

So that is good advice to go that direction. I also want to see the diet. I just, you know, it's I think we, you take somebody who has done what he's done, which is impressive, right? He lost a ton of weight, probably cutting calories, creating activity, and it was probably results, results, results, results, results. And now he's coming back the other way, he's trying to build back up, and now the progress is slow. Now he's with the rest of us.

Another thing that just kind of offshoot here is, I think COVID brought a lot of people to working out, to fitness and health. The irony, you know, that whole period of time, so many people are like, I started during that period of time, this is just one more person. So maybe it was a blessing in disguise. A lot more people conscious about that.

No, it's for sure. Our next caller is Ellen from South Carolina. Ellen, how are you? What's up guys, how are you? Good, how can we help you? Good, yeah. So actually first, really quick, I know you guys hear it all the time,

but you deserve to hear it every time. I really appreciate all that y'all do for the fitness and health space. You've taught me a lot. I've been able to apply a lot of the things that I've learned from you with my clients and you make me laugh. I learned a lot of very interesting things. Thanks, Justin. And I just I really

appreciate it. So yeah, can't thank you enough. Doug included. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you got it. So I'll just dive into my question. I'm just going to read it. Kind of how I sent it in. So I've been in the fitness and nutrition space for the past 10 years. I started with a few bikini competitions at 18 and my passion for it led me to pursuing my nutrition degree. Since then I've been coaching fitness classes and then eventually I did transition to being a full-time nutrition coach after I graduated and that was about four years

ago. So this is all I've really ever. I definitely struggled with disordered eating for a few years, both extremely underway as well as some intense binge eating for a few years, but now about two years disorder free, which I'm pretty stoked about. I absolutely love what I do and I feel very confident in my ability to coach clients on practicing balance and not let this be all consuming. Yet, I struggle very much to practice what I preach.

I've missed out on a lot of my 20s and now that I'm 27, I really want to enjoy life without feeling like I need to control everything when it comes to nutrition and training. I've been working on this, but my biggest challenge is figuring out my identity outside of being the quote fit one. I tend to cancel plans because I'd rather hit my macros or I'll leave early from something because I know I'm working out early in the morning, et cetera. I've tried to stop tracking macros time and time again,

but no matter what, as soon as I'm about to eat something, I whip out my food scale. I just don't trust myself. I know that this should be a part of my life, not my whole life, but because I place so much value on my physical appearance and desire to control for so long, I really struggle to just let go. I've not missed one of y'all's episodes in four years and you're part of the

reason I know that fitness and nutrition does not have to be your entire life. So the actual questions are, do you guys have any tips for trying to break out of this box of being too attached to what makes me feel safe and in control? And then the second part is, have any of y'all ever struggled with your identity outside of fitness when that's all you know or may have convinced other people that that's just who you are. Great question. Yeah, really good question. Really good question. Really common and very few are willing to admit it. So kudos to you for being there.

That's half the battle in my opinion, is to admit that you're challenged and you struggle with this. I think 90% plus of our space is is littered with with fitness professionals that are struggling with this, but then don't admit it. One of the things that has helped me personally in my journey through this was, and you already have attached it, in my head I was already answering your question

and you would already have made the attachment that this is also attached to body image, right? Like how I look. So one of the things that moved me away from that, and I can totally relate to being judged by how I look and driving towards a goal like that, was to become like the mobility guy, you know? Because you love training,

so I don't wanna discourage you from lifting and exercising. It's a passion, what you do. But I would chase a new modality that's so outside of what you would normally do. So maybe you've already been a mobility person anyway. So not that. So maybe be like, we have an old timey program. Get into old time strength lifts.

Or if you never trained for a power lifting meet, get into power lifting movements for a while. If you've never trained specifically for an athlete, check out the new performance advanced program. Pick something that is so out of the norm for you that's related to health and fitness that is only going to benefit you as a trainer and coach. You go chase a modality that you normally wouldn't do. It's only going to add more tools to your tool belt to help other people. Plus, it'll start to help you detach from the image part of fitness. Instead of always chasing the macros

and the way your body looks, how about how you're moving or performing on an exercise or in the gym? That will help. It doesn't necessarily mean it's going to fix or change or get rid of, but it's a good way to start to transition away from that. And that's something that has really helped me with this exact same challenge. Ellen, do you know what your triggers are with the food and the workouts and stuff? With food, I think it's just my need for control. It's not even that I don't trust myself because I've been tracking for so long.

It's just that, yeah, I don't know. When it comes down time to eat, I just wanna know exactly what I'm doing. Do I don't really know. Do you, uh, do you weigh yourself often? Every morning. Okay. So typically weighing, uh, yourself, looking in the mirror, full body and

studying yourself or looking at your physique, those two things tend to be really strong triggers for people like you. So in order to kind of get out of this, you're going to have to eliminate those triggers for a while. It's going to be a little bit of a leap of faith because you're going to be, oh my God, what's happening to myself? What am I doing? So I would take your scale and I would give it to somebody that you trust and say, I'm

going to give this to you and don't give it back to me. And so stop weighing yourself and stop looking in the mirror. Now of course you have to look in the mirror. How do I not look in the mirror? Just look at your neck up when you're getting ready in the mirror. And if you look at how you look in an outfit, be very aware of how much you're studying yourself. So you can look at yourself, I look good. I'm out and stay literally So I went through a period of this where I would I took mirrors and I covered them and I stopped looking at myself Because it would trigger

those those behaviors So the scale and the mirror get rid of those those two things and then when it comes to eating You're gonna have to start connecting it to something else than how you look and your body weight. So what we're gonna need to start doing is I want you to take a journal, and I like paper and pen. I like this better than the phone because there's a lot of things on your phone that'll also probably trigger you, like social media.

So I'd like for you to have a small journal and I want you to write, talk about how you feel feel before you eat what you're looking for from the food How you feel while you're eating and then how you feel after the food and that's it. No judgment Okay, so the point of this is also not to get into a shame spiral. Oh crap I totally ate what I normally because I'm still trying to control my like don't worry about that just how you feel What's the goal with this meal how I feel during and how I feel after and you're gonna start doing start connecting other things to food Besides the way you look because you'll and it's gonna take it's gonna be a bit of a process In fact, it's gonna feel very awkward at first at first. It's gonna feel very forced

Before it becomes something very natural on top of that doing what Adam said I think is is great because you're still gonna want to work out. I don't think you should stop working out but I think you should go to the gym and start looking at the like the weight on the bar. I think I think a powerlifting program would be amazing for that because then we'll start to find appreciation and excitement and enjoyment over getting stronger. And also getting stronger typically means you're not under eating. It means you're probably feeding yourself properly and appropriately. So I like the strength aspect.

So maps power lift, eliminate the triggers. And then the third piece, and this is the hard piece is, is, and maybe you've already done this work, but try to find the root as to why you feel like you need to control things so tightly. Typically, it's because you had a childhood that was either no control, it fell out of control, unpredictable, or you didn't have any boundaries,

or because you're very anxious and that sense of control makes things feel more predictable. But working with a therapist on that control issue is gonna be very important because if you fix it here it'll show up under the places. In other words you may find that you're, oh I got the exercise and diet part down but now my house needs to be perfectly clean all the time or I need to be like this with work or whatever. You're probably laughing because it might already be a thing.

So I think working with a therapist on the control stuff and getting to the root will allow you to kind of figure out this thing. Because otherwise it'll manifest in other ways. And then as you get older and you start to have a family and all that stuff, it'll get even more pressure makes these things come out more. So those three things I think will help a lot.

Do you have? Yeah, having a family is something that it has made me think more about this. I don't want this to rub off on any children. And then two, with the training aspect, I know you guys don't like CrossFit, but for a while when I was doing it, it did help me kind of break out of it for a little,

cause I was so focused on performance. Of course. So that did help. Powerlifting. Hey, that's an example though. If you were a client of mine and we found that, that's another great example of where I would allow that. Like just because we're not a fan of the programming, but when I have a very specific client who

I'm trying to get away from body image, I think CrossFit did a pretty good job of that. It's kind of come full circle back. Not so good though too, but I mean, for the most part, it's performance driven and I like that aspect. And so there's some value to that. So I like all the advice. What I'm wondering is, do you have other interests in hobbies like outside of fitness?

Are you like, anything drives you outside that you enjoy that you could really dive into you can you know Maybe serve somewhere or like volunteer and give back to other people instead of like, I don't know sometimes for me It's like I'm so self-focused. I'm so self Motivated and a lot of that's wrapped into you know, my body training like nutrition like what I'm getting all these things, right? I'm checking all these boxes, you know, instead of pouring all of that on me all the time, like pour it somewhere else. Uh, yeah, for sure. That was part of my original,

like background and the question too. I, I think that's another piece that has upset me about all of this. I used to do a lot of different things. Um, I have a lot of hobbies drawing, drawing, dancing, even honestly, just hanging out with people in general is something like I was very outgoing. And I've, yeah, it's become very, I guess, selfish, honestly, but all in pursuit of maintaining this one thing. So there's definitely things that I thought about going back to, but I just, I just haven't. You know what, I'm so glad Justin asked that

because that changes some of my advice now too. And this just also reminds me a part of my journey where I started to get back into playing basketball, I started actually reading more, I started doing, I started, I picked up swimming, I started picking up some things I was interested in, and it's like, remember, and I know you know this because you've listened to the show for so long is that, you know, we talk about this, the whole health sphere

and you just listed off a bunch of things about yourself that you liked and that you did that are a part of being healthy. Yeah. Like all those things you just said is like, those are all a part of health. And if you've completely eliminated all of them to just be so focused on this macros and body image like that's not healthy and so maybe part of your exercise is letting go of some of the gym days maybe you shouldn't train in the gym do this

though Ellen four days a week maybe it's two days a week and then two days it is doing hobbies that you know give you joy but you have to schedule them at first that's not gonna happen naturally I'm saying that cuz it's gonna be alien right now I gotta spend more time with friends or whatever. Like literally like, okay, Tuesdays, I am going to go out to lunch with a friend. Yeah, no, it's gotta look just, whatever you were doing, if you were like Monday,

Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, gym days, it's like keep two of those days, and then the other two are now being replaced with specific hobbies or things. It's gonna feel very liberating. After a few weeks of doing this, you're gonna start to feel free from these chains that you're bound by so but you're going to have to be scheduling that for like the journaling it's going to feel awkward at first for sure. And part of the and part of the things that should help you motivate through

this and at least it did for me is that because we're coaches and trainers part of this work and experiment is so I'm going to be a better coach. Part of me going through this and the challenge of this and struggling through it is because it's only going to make me better for my clients. And so there's that use that as your motivation as you go through it is like, Hey, I know I'm not the only one who's challenged with this me going through it, wrestling with it, finding what works, what doesn't work is only going to make you a better communicator with your clients that struggle with the same thing. Totally. Yeah, I really appreciate that. You guys sound like my boyfriend. He tells me all the things you guys are telling me, but I told him unless mind pumps helps me, I'm not gonna stay here and tell you. Oh god, he probably hates us. I find a way to get y'all in every

conversation, I swear. We're just backing them up. I think, you know, I think I like Maps Anabolic for you. You could follow the two day version and then take the other days and schedule things that are not related to fitness. Literally, maybe take a class in drawing or a dance class, like you said, and put that, instill that in your life. I think that's a great.

100%, yeah, that'd be great. 100%. Actually, real quick, instill that in your life. I think that's a great. 100%. Yeah. That'd be great. 100%. Actually real quick, I did do anabolic maybe a year and a half ago. And those, I guess there was a few trigger days or just train, like you wouldn't do anything. Yeah. That was hard, but I forced myself to do it

and it was really helpful. However, I just didn't replace it with anything. So I just kind of did nothing on those days. Good. Maybe yeah, this time around replacing it. Yeah, dude. I go two days a week and then go sign up for something or do a class or schedule a lunch with a friend.

I love that. Yeah. Cool. All right, Alex. Thank you so much for calling in. Yep. Thank you guys so much for having me. You got it. Thank you.

Some good self-awareness and honesty. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean, she's on the right path. Truth is, I think this is literally the whole space. It's just that. Yeah, it is. It really is.

You know what sucks about it? Some of them, some people choose to accept that and own it and work towards it. Others deny it. I think some people don't want to let it go. Like they know it. Like you tell them, like, I know. Well. I don't want to let this go. I know it. You tell them, I know. I don't wanna let this go.

I mean, well of course. You know how good it felt to walk around as the most jacked dude in the gym and be complimented five times on the way in, five times on the way out? Talk about an ego feed. So you get that fed to you, so it's like this self-fulfilling,

oh yeah, you look so good, oh my God, you're so amazing. So it's like, it's an issue, but then yet you're being told how amazing you are for. Of course, you know, of course. Look, we have a hard gainer guide that can help even the hardest of gainers build muscle and it's free. It's totally free, mindpumpfree.com. You can also find all of us on social media.

Justin is at Mind Pump, Justin. I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano and Adam is at Mind Pump, Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle

at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos,

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