Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2349: The Relationship Between Cardio & a Flat Butt, How TRT Impacts Body Fat, Ways to Reduce High Estrogen as a Male & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: June 1, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Email [e-mail] if you want to be considered to ask your question on the show. Mind Pump Fit Tip: When in doubt, rest LONGER! (1:43) What it SHOULD look like when you train your clients and learn a new skill. (11:38) Why is there such a high turnover rate for personal trainers? (17:31) The mentors who impacted the guys the most. (26:58) Conspiracy theorists are CRUSHING! (33:38) Does sun exposure cause cancer? (37:44) The GLP-1 cultural impact. (42:13) How gummy supplements are improving customer usage. (50:16) Shout out to the Mind Pump Trainer Course! (53:43) #ListenerLive question #1 - Which MAPs program would be best for clients on GLP-1s? (54:44) #ListenerLive question #2 - Do you have any recommendations for specific foods, supplements, or any route without medical intervention to try and lower my estrogen levels? (1:03:05) #ListenerLive question #3 - How can someone who loves the mental benefits of cardio still reap the benefits of weight training? (1:11:38) #ListenerLive question #4 - Does TRT burn body fat? (1:20:41) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] 3 Day Mind Pump Personal Trainer Webinar Mind Pump Fitness Coaching Course Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off** May Promotion: MAPS Strong | MAPS Powerlift 50% off! ** Code MAY50 at checkout ** Mind Pump #1612: Everything You Need To Know About Sets, Reps & Rest Periods Mind Pump #2262: Six Reasons Trainers Fail Mind Pump #2252: Mind Pump Fitness Coaching Course Could fluoride in pregnancy affect kids' development? A study suggests a link Nestle set to sell $5 pizza, sandwiches for Wegovy, Ozempic users | Reuters Ozempic could help AIRLINES profits' rocket as passengers who use it slim down - as it's claimed United could save $80MILLION a year if every passenger lost 10 pounds Visit TRANSCEND for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump Listeners. ** For 24 HOURS ONLY, running through May 31st, we will be discounting the following two stacks: 1) The Peak Performance Stack: NAD +, 20% off vials or capsules, GHK Copper, 20% off cream or capsules, General Benefits, Increased energy and mental clarity, Metabolic Support, Anti-Aging Properties, Anti-Inflammatory Properties. 2) The Adonis Stack: IGF-1 LR3, 20% off vials, Tadalafil, 20% off troches. General Benefits: Improve Sexual Performance, Improved Athletic Performance, Enhanced Muscle Mass, Increased Fat Loss. ** Get your free Sample Pack with any drink mix purchase! And if you’re an LMNT INSIDER, you have first access to LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water: Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump MAPS 15 Minutes MAPS Starter   Mind Pump Hormones Facebook Private Forum Mind Pump #1845: How To Do Cardio & Not Lose Muscle Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Tony Jeffries Boxing Boxeo (@tony_jeffries) Instagram Chris Williamson (@chriswillx) Instagram Dr. Tyna Moore (@drtyna) Instagram   Dr. Stephen Cabral (@stephencabral) Instagram  

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the easier way. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mindpump, right? In today's episode, we answered live caller's questions.

But this was after an intro portion. Today was 52 minutes long. This is where we talk about fitness, current events, our lives, studies and more. By the way, you could check the show notes for timestamps if you wanna skip around your favorite parts. Also, if you wanna be on an episode like this one, email us at live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one, let's talk

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Also, these are the final hours for the May special. Maps Strong and Maps Power Lift are 50% off. If you catch this episode when it airs, you can still get them for half off. If you're interested, go to MAPSFitnessProducts.com and then use the code May50 for the discount. All right, here comes the show. When it comes to strength training,

your rest periods in between sets can definitely be too short. But here's something else that's kinda cool. They can never be too long. It's true, you can never rest too long in between sets. Look, the reason why we have to cut rest periods shorter, sometimes we want stamina, muscular endurance, and also you can't be at the gym for hours at a time.

But what does this point out? Well, this points out that rest periods are essential, and longer rest periods for most people are probably better. Remember, you're training for strength and muscle when you do strength training. So when in doubt, rest longer. You know, when I figured this out, so you remember my buddy Mark and him and I,

I used to hate going to the gym with him because he always talked and we always ran into people and like, and he just, that was him, man. Like we were either working or we were in the gym. And so there would be times where we'd be in the gym for like three and a half hours. And it was just not how I was all about my business. And we had three hours to do that.

We had three hours to kill. Oh yeah, obviously that doesn't exist anymore. But I remember this was the first time I kind of learned this lesson. Like, oh my God, you can actually do that. And what happened was we would do a set or two and then talk to somebody and somebody or get caught up. And like anyways, we ended up being in there

for like three and a half hours. Now I leave going angry, like that was the worst workout I've ever had, like, because I didn't have a major pump, I didn't get, I didn't sweat like crazy. No, the next day I was fucking crazy sore. Because your strength was so high. I still lifted when I did, pretty heavy, and I actually, when I went back, because I actually when I went back because I was like

How is this possible? I recounted like all I actually good amount of I actually did a lot of volume But it didn't feel like it because I wasn't exhausted from it and I was like, oh shit I mean I could have a really effective workout not that I would encourage anyone to spend three and a half hours in the gym But it really kind of opened my eyes on the rest periods like that It's like oh I could get away with that. No, the point of this, so I was on a podcast yesterday with Dr. Esteem, who I love, and she asked me this question about rest periods. Her audience is largely women and largely, I think, women who are kind of middle-aged.

Now I know that demographic and I know that they tend to have issues with rest periods. I like to go real fast. So we talked about that and how if you rest too short, you end up doing cardio with weights and you lose the benefits of strength training. You'll get endurance, you'll get stamina, but you're not going to build muscle strength, get the metabolism boost, et cetera, et cetera. You're not going to shape and sculpt, right? And then it dawned on me and I said to her, I said, you know, it's funny. It's like, you can't take too long of a rest period. You funny, it's like, you can't take too long of a rest period. You can go too short, but you can't take too

long of a rest period. And she kind of looked at me funny and I said, look, you could look at the studies. I mean, there's old strength training studies from the Soviet Union. And now we have a lot of them to back this up, but the Soviet Union during the cold war, they invested a lot of money in their athletes during

the Olympics because for communist countries in particular, this was a great way to showcase the superiority of your system or whatever. So these countries would invest a lot of money and they dominated when it came to strength training. One of the reasons why they dominated was they invested so much time and money into research around strength training, nutrition, performance enhancing drugs, et cetera, et cetera. But really it boiled down to, and we found this out after the, what they say, the Iron Curtain fell down, right? After the Soviet Union fell apart, a lot of their coaches came over and really the difference

was their training. And one of the things that they would do with some of their Olympic athletes is they would have these athletes lift all day. They'd be in there all day. Now they weren't lifting all day, but they would lift and then they would take a long ass break for 10 or 15 minutes, do it again, long ass break. They'd go take lunch, come back. It was like, and they got tremendous gains.

I've experimented with this myself, with the all day workouts. I haven't done those in a while, but where I literally will lift, uh, every hour or every other hour all day long. And I'll do this for like six workouts and I'll do like a couple sets or a few sets each time. And I always get gains after literally after that one workout. So when it comes to strength training, like, like you can rest a long time and you'll get great results, but you can rest too little and get not great results.

And that's the message that people need to understand around strength training. Yeah. I saw this too with like gymnasts,-level gymnasts, how they train. They train with massive long rest periods in between. It usually takes almost all day to train because you have to pull off these high skill moves, but at the same time, it's so taxing on the body while you're enduring that particular movement. But that was the best way that they could actually excel and be strong and proficient in those movements and really perfect it. It's really not that different.

Lifting weights, again, I haven't heard this from many other fitness people associating lifting weights with a skill. I think it needs to be emphasized way more. It needs to be something that people think about when they go into just their regular workouts. It's like, how can I approach this? Like, I'm mastering this. Yeah, go ahead. And I was just going to say,

and to distill this even further down, because I remember figuring this out and kind of going, is like, then you distill it down just to the three or four big lifts and just getting good at it and taking your time. Like, how much bang for your buck you get from that? So much further. I went through periods of time where I was just like, Then you just still down just to like the three or four big lifts and just getting good at it and taking your time. Like how much bang for your buck you get from that. So much further.

I went through periods of time where it's just like just squat bench deadlift pretty much is all I'm going to do. And I'm going to spend like an hour doing each movement. And just that's that was like my week of training was just like today is bench day and I'm spending an hour doing it. Today is going to be squat day. I'm going to spend a long rest periods priming really well, getting ready, critiquing every bit of the movement and improving it.

Man, I got a lot of benefit from that. You build what you train, and what you're trying to train with strength training is maximal strength. Long rest periods allow for that, and that's what you build by taking longer rest periods. And then skill, Justin was making the point about skill. When you look at any exercise, I don't care what exercise it is,

and some exercises require more skill than others, obviously, but when you look at any exercise, the better you perform it in terms of your skill. Now, what is a skill? What do I mean by that? The technique of the exercise, control, stability, connection, like any other skill.

How well you throw a three pointer or a fastball, how well you can sprint or run laterally. It's the same thing with strain training. How well you can perform a squat or a deadlift or a press or a row or whatever. The better you can perform it from a skill perspective, the more you'll get out of it. It's a fact.

The worse you perform an exercise from a skill perspective, the less results you'll get and you'll start to move closer and closer and closer to injury. In fact, any exercise that exists, you pick the most dangerous strength training exercise, if performed with expert skill, meaning you have control, stability, connection, it's an appropriate weight, etc., etc., you won't hurt yourself. The risk of injury is almost zero. Any exercise, I don't care how easy it is, you could pick a dumbbell curl. If the skill is bad enough, the injury risk becomes almost a hundred percent.

So, uh, this is something that needs to be communicated. So if you go to the gym and think of it this way as like, I'm going to do two exercises, I have an hour. I'm going to just pick two exercises. I'm going to do today a squat and an overhead press. That'd be a good combination. And I'm going to spend 30 minutes on each. Just keep sharpening it.

Versus I'm going to do four exercises for legs and four exercises for shoulders. I'm just going to do squats and I'm just going to do overhead press. I'm going to perfect it. I'm going to perfect it. And I'm going to rest long enough to where I feel like I can maximally exert myself with maximum strength and perform it to perfect it. I'm going to perfect it. And I'm going to rest long enough to where I feel like I can maximally exert myself with maximum strength and perform it with perfect technique. If you did that, you would come back, most people in the first three years of training.

So for the first three years of training, if that's how you approach your workouts, you get far better results than what people typically do, which is, okay, I'm going to the gym today, today I'm supposed to work legs, back, and shoulders, or chest and shoulders, or whatever. And I'm gonna work out and make sure I hit those body parts. So I gotta feel them really get pumped, I gotta feel them get sore, I gotta sweat and I gotta get tired.

And the exercises are just a means to an end. Like, with that attitude, the exercises and how they're performed is almost irrelevant. It's all about how tired I get, how sore I get, how much I hammer the body part. That is not how you maximize strength. You know, too, this so highlights, too, how relatively inexpensive it is to get started

and see massive progress. For example, to your point, and then the point I was making about the big three or four lifts, a flat bench, a barbell and some plates. Like, and then that attitude, like I'm just, I'm just going to go and bench press row deadlift overhead press. Like those are going to be my squat. Those are going to be my movements. And for the next two years, all I'm going to do is those.

And I'm going to just going to get good at those. And all I need is the barbell, the bench and some plates. I'm going to over complicate my training other than just perfecting those movements and getting stronger and stronger at those lifts. And you will be blown away at what a physique that you could build just from that. Totally. Not anything else, just those things. Now the challenge is when people, you get fitness people coming on and then they make

the arguments for all this other stuff. And we're not saying that that's how you'd work out for the rest of your life because eventually you want to introduce other movements, you want to fill the gaps, you don't want to develop imbalances. There are benefits to building up some fatigue. The waist byproducts from strength training can also help with muscle building. The pump also helps with muscle building, et cetera, et cetera. But when, in the first couple years at least

of strength training, if you just focus on getting stronger, mastering basic lifts. That's your bedrock. That's it. Yeah. Like you're gonna get the best results. You build so much off of that. Totally.

And the core of everything. And most people still have plenty of room to get better in those things, right? Like I still think that that's an area where I'm still improving and getting better. So. You wanna know what's funny? So there's a lot of things that I got better at,

you know, 10 years into personal training clients. But the workouts, the workouts I do on my clients looked so different in the back half of my career. Yeah, I know. The front half of my career to the average person who doesn't know. Way less jazzy. Oh dude. I was very flash. Totally. Like, like if the average person who doesn't know exercise, doesn't know,

you know, fitness and whatever, if they were to look at my workouts that I put together for my clients in the early days versus the later days, they would say, they would think that the early days was the advanced trainer. Like, Oh, totally. This guy knows what he's talking about. Look at all this weird stuff he's doing and how tired his clients are getting and how he's stringing all these things.

Crazy combos. I've never seen that before. The back half, the person would be like, oh, this must be a beginner trainer because I see him using the same five exercises and some, I don't know what that is, but it kind of looks kind of basic. That's, it's hilarious because that's what

my workouts turned into towards the end of my career. And the results my clients got, and my clients weren't, they were everyday average people. The results they got was like blew the doors off. Like strength, fat loss. I mean you could tell, I guarantee you, all of us, if you showed me the workout that a trainer wrote for you, I could tell you within five minutes how good that trainer is.

How experienced they are, yeah. Just by the, by the, what they're, and the crazy part about that is the simplicity of the programming is what would lead me to believe that they're a much more educated experienced trainer than the complexity of that. So if you got a workout and he's got me he's got me doing this and that and I have all these things it's just like oh yeah this I can tell you he's he's in his first five years or it's it's just like you oh yeah, I can tell you, he's in his first five years. It's just like, you know, cause you'll get trainers who will say things like,

well, isn't that boring? Like, don't I need to whatever? Or, you know, what am I gonna teach my clients then? It's like, you know, okay, you go to a boxing coach, you've never boxed before. There's like, what is it, four punches? There's a jab, a jab, a cross, an uppercut, and a hook. Like, that's what you're gonna learn for punches.

You think you're gonna just stop learning those after a year. You'll be mastering those for the next few years and you're gonna be significantly better on the third year than you were on the first year, but you're never gonna veer off those four punches. They're not teaching you 15,000 different moves. You're learning those four and you're perfecting them

and you get way better at them. That's what it looks like, that's what it should look like when you train your clients. There's correctional exercise that's in there of course because if someone can't perform the squat or the deadlift or the press or whatever, there's reasons for it and a good trainer will know how to address those reasons.

It's so funny, Sal, because everybody gets this when it comes to a sport like boxing or anything else like that, but for some reason we don't look at weight lifting that way. You know, my brother-in-law is right now for Christmas, their son got them, my nephew got them tennis lessons. And I was like, and they're like totally all in on it right now. They're trying to get me roped in now that both of them have got lessons and been doing it. And they're all excited and they're then because they're very, they're

all very competitive in the family. And ping pong has always been the thing. And now we're moving into tennis, I guess. And so they begin the lessons. And so I've been asking like how they've been, like how, and he's like, you know, for the first, so he had 10 lessons that I think he purchased for the first eight, he was even allowed to touch a ball. That makes sense. Like not even allowed to touch a ball. He had air. This, he, all he got was the racket and his footwork. That's it. And then he said on the eighth one, he let him drop and hit the ball. He took the ball away. Nope. Back to the like... And so it's just like, it's so crazy. You think, how do I learn how to play tennis? I don't

even get the ball. There's so much to the mechanics of learning that. And that's so important before you even get to the place where... And it's like, I feel like why do not we not look at like weight training that way? We like changing your physique and building this aesthetic body that we all dream wish we had or aspire to have. We've relegated exercise to the fatigue and to the feeling that people treat exercise, all exercise pursuits this way. Running, people treat running like this.

Like I never run, but I decide I'm gonna start running, so I'm gonna put running shoes on, and just run as hard as I can until I get tired. And pay no attention to biomechanics and technique, which is why everybody gets injured. And it's so crazy because if you take, let's take boxing, let's take tennis, and both boxing and tennis, every sport,

there's like all these moves, you said all these, these, for throwing the hook, there is a whole series of mechanics that go into your body to make that hook beautiful, perfect and powerful. The same thing goes like when you look at going to the gym, the bench press, the squat, each one of those movements has a series of all these biomechanics that make it a beautiful and impactful and super effective movement. And then, and if you neglect to care about any of that, you're only going to yield so much return from that. I might off some people, but this is, this is true. Cause we, we brought up boxing.

Okay. Boxing kickboxing, not that long ago, entered into the group class like the fitness fray and then technique went out the window, right? Like you watch a cardio kickboxing class, it is not like going and learning kickboxing. Now I'll argue, you'll get in better shape and you'll get less injured actually doing real kickboxing than you will do a cardio kickboxing class. I'll make that, and I don't mean kickboxing in a ring,

I mean hiring an actual coach who knows how to kickbox versus some instructor that got a weekend certification who's teaching you in a class with 30 people trying to make you sweat. You'll actually get in better shape, learning technique, and less risk of injury because that guy's watching you going, no, no, no, don't kick like that,

you're gonna hurt your hip or that's not how you kick, versus the instructor who's like, go, go, go, yes. Five more, five more. Yes. I mean, our friends over at Boxing Burn, Tony Jeffries and them, I mean, they built a whole business off of that

because they saw that opportunity. They're like, oh my God, all these people throwing punches, and it's like, why not teach them the right technique? Because not only are they gonna get what they're all going to that class for, which is to get in better shape and fit, but then they're also gonna have better technique and form

and still get the better, it's like so funny to me. Totally, totally. There's, you know, this makes me think of fitness, right? I was looking up some stats on trainers and coaches. Do you guys know what the turnover rate is in the fitness industry for trainers and coaches? Like by months or total? Like how many people get started

and how many people stick around the first year? I would guess it's up there with realtors, I would guess hairdressers, I would guess. It's one of the worst. I would say 75%. Yeah, it would guess. It's one of the worst. I would say 75%. Yeah, it's around 70, between 70, 80%. Drop out in the first year. And I bet if you stretch that out to two years,

it would get close to 90. Now, okay, so what's your opinion, what are your, I have some ideas on why that is, do you know why? Oh yeah, you know why too. I'm sure you know exactly why. It's because trainers, the majority of people who become trainers and coaches have a passion for fitness and a passion for people. That's why they do it, right?

Very few people are like, I want to make a lot of money, so I should become a trainer. Usually it's like, I love fitness and I want to work with people and I want to help people with this. So that's why I'm going to do this. They have no idea that you need to understand the business side of being a trainer. You need to know how to side of being a trainer. You need to know how to get clients, generate leads, sell personal training,

organize your business. They have no idea. So they come in with this passion for fitness and they don't know business and nobody teaches them and then they fail. And so then you can't make money doing this thing that you love so you just quit because like, okay, I can't support myself.

I guess I'm gonna do something else. What do you think? Yeah, it's super annoying, because it's like they're so passionate and they're having a great time, I'm sure, like helping these people out and realizing like, the struggle all of a sudden, it sneaks up on you before you know it, because you're not considering

the fact that like, you need to keep funding this, you need to keep funding, paying the bills, you need all these things to come in. It needs to be an intentional focus from the very beginning. Yeah, I think it really does, the profession tends to attract the not ideal person for it. Like for example, you don't get into car sales and not think you're gonna have to sell, right?

So the person that's- It's in the name. Yeah, right, right. So it's like you go into that job knowing I'm gonna to have to learn how to sell, communicate to people, hustle. Like, even though there's high turnover rate, probably in that too, you're, you are completely aware of what it entails. And it probably what you think you're up for the challenge. Yeah. A lot of trainers have no idea. No idea. Trainers are like, I feel like, I feel like they're blindsided when they find out like, oh yeah, most of your job is sales. How many times have you had a trainer, Adam, that you hired or you've seen come up to you and go, I don't know, I needed to sell.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, no. I remember inheriting trainers like that and being like, oh well, I'm gonna have to get rid of this guy. It's like the fact that you are telling me, you're openly saying like, oh, I don't like doing sales at all, I'm like, oh well, you're not gonna work here because that I don't like doing sales at all. I'm like, oh, well, you're not going to work here because that's not going to work at all because you literally, your job is to sell yourself.

You literally are selling yourself and also selling what I think is harder than cars. At least if I toured somebody on a new car, I can tell you about the engine, its performance, its gas mileage, the interior. They can see it too when they get it when they buy it. Yeah. And then when you give me your money, I get to give you the keys and you need to go see it too. They get it when they buy it. Yeah. And then when you give me your money, I get to give you the keys and you need to go feel it.

And then you walk away with a big grin on your face. When I'm selling you fitness, I'm selling you a dream. You come in and tell me all your problems and issues. I give you a bill and tell you, hey, hopefully down the road you get what you want. There's a real art to that. If you can sell that to people. And I just think that the trainers don't, they don't realize that when they get into the profession, they normally get in because health and fitness changed their lives somehow. And they want to help other people, which I think those are

really good intentions. And I think that has potential to becoming, because if you take that person with that type of purpose, added with, hey, I'm open to the idea that I need to learn the art of selling and I'm about it. Like that makes a really good coach and trainer. The other part of it too is even if you, and this doesn't exist, but even if you somehow worked for a gym that gave you all the clients that you wanted, you're not done selling. What do you think you do every time you train a client when you're trying to get them to change their behaviors? You're selling them, that's what you're doing.

That's what we do on this podcast. When we're talking about fitness and health, I'm selling you on why the right way is better than the wrong. You're selling them to even get back and come back to the gym to meet with you again. It's a continual process. It's also the lead getting process. A lot of trainers are afraid of that. I used to get really irritated with people that say

they don't like sales because it's so important in life. Like, you know, it also says sales every time you communicate with your fucking wife. Okay. Every time you communicate with your kid, ABC, dude. It is sales. Like you can wrap it however you want to wrap it, but the end of the day is to your point, I'm communicating my ideas to another person and how well I do at that is going to dictate how that conversation goes. And if you, cause let's be honest, in a marriage, in a relationship with a kid, in a partnership with people. Friendship.

Friendship. You're not always going to agree. So when those times happen, are you good at communicating your opinions, your ideas, and are you good at influencing those others to see it from your perspective? And if you suck at that and you completely decide that you, oh, I don't want anything to do with that forever, like, well, you're going to have a rough time in life. Yeah. So you may as well embrace this idea. Like maybe, and I'm not saying that everybody should have to be great at sales or you have to do that for a job,

but it used to annoy me when you got a job and a lot of it is that. And then all of a sudden you just decide, oh, I don't want it or I don't like doing that. It's just like, well, maybe try. Because let me tell you, if you figure this piece out, you start to get, and if you actually get good at it, you start to see those parallels. You go, oh wow, this will, this art of communication, this works in my business relationship. This works with my wife. This is, this is a nice asset. By the way, I can explain things to my kids better. By the way, I did this earlier. The reason why I said as a trainer or a coach, you're always selling because you're going to constantly be selling your clients on changing their behavior

so they can improve their health. I came up with that to communicate to trainers to get them to understand that sales are important. That was me figuring out how can I communicate this to this new trainer who works for me, who wants to help people so bad that is allergic to sales. Because when they think of sales, they think of the sleazy car salesperson or the salesperson that's ripping people off. All they want to do is help people. How am I gonna convince this person

that sales skills are communication skills and then I came up with that line and it worked for a lot of them because like okay, I do wanna help them and you're right, I am gonna have to convince them on their behaviors. Okay Sal, teach me, show me, how can I get better at this? And then they would crush, they would absolutely crush.

I can't tell you how many coaches and trainers work for me that as I was the boss and I would come to them to help me with nutrition, with mechanics, exercise science because they knew more than me. They all they had been in school for much longer, they had more national, they were more but they sucked as trainers. But yet I'm the boss, I have to come to them to ask them questions, because they were smarter than I was, but they could not deliver that information or get their clients to adhere to this knowledge that they had. At that point, it's damn near worthless.

You got all this schooling, you got all this stuff that you spent all this money and time and effort on, getting smart, but you're so terrible at communicating that to another person, that you can't help anybody. You're worthless. No, this is why we created, we have a course for trainers where it's literally like, it's like a certification, but it's not a certification, right? It's a course that teaches trainers and coaches how to build successful businesses

and how to be effective with their clients. And the stuff we put in there was the stuff that we learned through our experience of two decades working in gyms or working in studios and training clients, training trainers, on what you really need to learn to be successful and what no one else is going to teach you. That's the thing. It's like, this is stuff that we learned is valuable, but also

simultaneously, nobody's going to teach you this. There's no course, no certification. You know, I was lucky that I had some really good mentors and then a lot of it was trial and error, but there's where would I go? Where would you go to learn these skills or understand that? Or nobody would teach you this. Certifications are really good at teaching you the fitness and diet knowledge, which is important.

It's all very important. But this other stuff is like, it's equally as important. It's half of it. Yes. It's at least half of it. And you're right. That our space just doesn't put any energy and effort in that direction. I really felt like when we created that course that we were, we were feeling,

filling a massive need in the space because there's this huge gap between trainers actually getting the education, right? Learning the biomechanics, learning the nutrition, learning the exercise science, that's all really important, but that's not the stuff we focused on because there's already great course. We're partnering with companies like NASM,

you have companies like NCI that we work with, like those are great, brilliant companies that teach you nutrition, that teach you the mechanics, that teach you the exercise science, that teach you that type of stuff. But there's this massive need for the other part. Like, hey, what happens when I actually have a client and how do I get them to adhere to the protocol that I want them to? Or what do I do when it's time for them to buy something?

Like, what does that look like? Like those, they just, they missed teaching people that and they just assumed that, oh, if you were smart enough and you're just a good enough trainer that just everybody buys, unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Yeah, no, no. Who, do you guys, who can, when you look back, who are the mentors that you learned from the most that really impacted you guys?

So I, as a trainer, because I was a trainer side, right? Was a trainer first, then I was an assistant of fitness manager, then a fitness manager. I actually spent 90% of my time with all the salespeople because I quickly figured that out. I would spend some time with my trainer, I highlight, I definitely, I quickly figured out who the smartest trainer was as far as knowledge. And then I'd always ask them questions. If I didn't know, if I ran into an issue with my client, I would tell my client, I don't know that, but man, I work with Sal, he's hell of a smart. I'll talk to him tomorrow and like, he'll tell me like that.

I was never afraid to say that and do that. I was totally comfortable with that. And I'd go ask you, then you, not literally you, because you didn't work with me, but like someone like you, and they would sit down, explain the science to me. I would now retain that knowledge. I would then go speak it to my client. So now, boom, now it's in, now I got it because I asked about it. I heard about it. Then I went and my clients. So now boom, now it's in now I got it because I asked about it I heard about it then I went and taught it. So now it's solidified as mine I got it now I got the information but then the rest of my time was sitting watching the sales guys present selling just watching them selling Yeah watching them present memberships and packages and and this the way they would communicate

ask questions tie down and. Back then, when I first got in this 20 years ago, those two sides didn't really mingle much. You're a trainer, you were the fitness nerd person or you were the sales guy. Totally separate. Yeah. I know. I know. I intermingled with the sales guys because I felt like there was so much to learn. Yeah, I learned a lot from the salespeople I worked with and then some of the managers I worked with because the best managers I worked with managed the people around them so well that I learned skills for how to work with my clients

from management styles. It's like a really good manager knows how to get the best out of an employee, right? While making the employee or allowing the employee feel like it's what they want to do. Not because they're afraid or whatever, because they hate their boss, but rather like they want to do these things because it's incredible manager that they have that makes them feel inspired.

And what I observed with that was a lot of grace, a lot of praise when necessary, meeting employees oftentimes where they were, but also holding standards that were established and understood, not lying. I learned this from managers and I would see how they would communicate and I'd be like, wow, that's, that's really good. I think I'm going to work with my clients that way. And then I had, I was just so lucky because I had this studio that I had, and I brought in people from different aspects of the health space who were so good. I was so blessed. And then I would just watch them and observe them with their clients. And I just

learned so many skills from body work and meditation and how that affects people and correctional exercise from physical therapists and just watching the people around me. But man, nobody really puts that together, you know, for, it's funny to hear Adam, cause it literally was Adam for me. Uh, and then the other Adam, uh, so yeah, so cause he, you brought up the, the fact that he was like sort of the mentor for, in terms of like training and programming and, uh, kinesiology. Um, so I, I did a lot of of shadowing between the two of you guys. And for me, before that,

it was really just the athletic realm and coaches. Big time. That makes a lot of sense. Big time. And it was really just the confidence and presenting yourself. And then that kind of translated well to sales. But in terms of the actual tangibles and like the things I should focus on in terms of like, you know, what's gonna help me in my day-to-day process, what I should be considering, how can I get leads, how can I close these leads, you know,

how many reps it's gonna take, what that's gonna do for me bringing in revenue, how can I increase that revenue, what kind of education can I do that revenue? What kind of education can I do to then increase my overall pay? And we would all factor all these things in. It was a great educational course for me. Then going off on my own, it was like I was stepping out again trying to figure out all these things on my own and find other guys that are great in terms of their own unique

businesses that they set up and how to do that. But really it was that crash course in 24-hour fitness I learned the most. Yeah. I really liked the trainers. I remember I went into sales. I was trainer, fitness manager, then I went into sales. So I worked with everybody, but when you're the general manager, you work a lot with your salespeople. But I love the trainers always because trainers and coaches, number one, they're

there because they truly, for the most part, they truly want to help people. Like they're really there for the root real reason. Like I really want to help people get healthy and there's this way to do it that I found and I love it. And I want to spread this. Like they have that energy, whether it's whether their methods are good or wrong or whatever, it's just that energy was always so good. And then it just became evident to me, and we talk about this all the time,

when it comes to the fitness space, the people that make the biggest best impact in terms of improving people's health are trainers and coaches. You take the entire fitness industry, all the companies that exist, the equipment companies, supplement companies, gyms, whatever, and all the people that own them and the people that work in them, influencers, whatever, the people that really make the biggest impact across the board, hands down, I'll argue this all day, are trainers and coaches. They're actually the ones making it actually happen.

So they'll always have my respect, you know? Because those are the people making the biggest difference. It's so funny how we all eventually found each other and stuff like that, especially considering that you and I are literally like inverse of each other of that, right? Like you were the sales guy and you hung out, had all this passion for the trainers. I was the trainer guy who hung out with all the sales guys.

You know what was cool about being in the sales side? I'll tell you, I'll be honest with you. So back in those days, you're right, it were very separate. So being the most fit general manager was pretty easy because they were all sales guys and none of them worked out. So I could have these meetings.

You had an advantage right away. And that's how I felt about, I was the fitness guy who had all the sales skills. And so it was just like, I was separated from everybody. So it was just like, it was such a funny thing that I was like, oh, this is such a cool and so funny that, I mean, obviously through our, our experience there, we were, you know, 20 years ago, I think we changed a lot of that culture there. I mean, later on we started to intermingle a lot more.

I think that was kind of after the wave of guys like us went through that. Totally. I gotta tell you guys, I gotta bring something up just to change subject, but it's like, I would say, and Justin, I'd love your feedback on this, because I think this is like your wheelhouse. Wouldn't you call, wouldn't you say the last year or two

that conspiracy theorists are just crushing? know I mean yeah just crush it with like 10 out of 10 what is that what's all this shit is coming true what's that up what's that um that meme or that thing that people say the difference between a conspiracy theorist and a fact and a profit or something like that no no no it's yeah two years or some of that there was a conspiracy theorists and factors along so my dad they're saying like it's do you know what just came out? A study on fluoride. Fluoride.

Now how long have we been hearing the wellness people preach and preach and preach about fluoride? Fluoride being in the tap water. And it is in the tap water. They added it in there, so that's where they throw it away, right? And we hear, we've been hearing forever, it's bad for you, builds up on the pineal gland, they'll say,

it causes all these issues, et cetera, et cetera. And then we hear the experts say, no garbage. That's not true. You're full of crap conspiracy theory. Well, a study just came out. I'll pull it up. But they're experts. I'll pull up the study.

Um, a study came out, uh, and now it's making its, um, it's, it's making its rounds. The study shows that fluoride exposure during pregnancy has now been linked to increased risk of childhood neurobehavioral problems. Wow. I mean, this sucks because we're affecting now like babies, you know what I mean?

And a lot of people drink water that's tap water. By the way, filtered tap water, that's not reverse osmosis. I don't think that takes out the fluoride, right? A traditional filter does not take out the fluoride. By the way too, I've heard birth control can make its way through the filtration process as well. So you gotta consider that you're being influenced in your hormones.

Whenever you guys talk about this, I feel like those that the other viral videos of the you know the guy who does like the and he's listening to like other fitness influencers. He's like spitting out the water. Yeah, he goes to eat something. That's how I feel when I hear you guys talk about it. It's like you're never doing anything right. What can I do? I feel that guy too though. I thought we knew that about fluoride already. I didn't know that.

I thought we knew it was a bad thing. I mean, the people in the health space have been talking about this for a long time, but it's always been like there's no connection. That's an animal study. You're kind of an outlier if you're against it. Oh yeah. I'm just waiting.

I'm waiting. I'm waiting for the, what are they called? The trails in the sky. Chemtrails. I'm waiting for chemtrails to come true. When that happens, I'm done. Cloud seeding's true. I actually thought I saw something

on that the other day, too. Well, I mean, there's something going on with that. Well, they say that they're spraying chemicals into the air and all kinds of weird shit, right? Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, again, that's one of those that you can dispute because of the vapor and all that like there are legit vapor on trails

There's contrails which don't have like they're not like chemically spraying everybody But who knows some of them could be you know like I wouldn't dismiss it. There was one there was a couple Studies I want to say studies where they actually analyzed rain And they found them to be high in aluminum and certain, Doug's nodding, you know this. Well, I know what I've been told, obviously not necessarily by experts, but yeah, I think it's aluminum dioxide or something they're putting up in the atmosphere. Yeah, so you get aluminum in the rain. Uh, yeah. And my understanding again, uh, is that contrails are water vapor, right?

And they dissipate very quickly. These don't chemtrails are the things that you see in the sky all afternoon. It's they spread out and then they become like, like a haze. Yeah. Uh, and that doesn't come from an airplane. This with a contrail. That's my understanding. Now you can call me a conspiracy theorist,

but in six months you'll have other opinions. Well, along those lines, I was reading some articles that the media is putting on articles on sunscreen and talking about how, you know, there's wellness influencers or whatever saying that sunscreen will be bad for you causes cancer. So then they list studies on showing how too much sun exposure is a risk for skin cancer, which is true.

So I'm thinking about this and now what they're saying is true. However, chemical based sunscreens aren't that great. Okay. So you use a sunscreen with a chemical based way of preventing the UV rays from penetrating. Those have, we know this, they have potential hormonal effects. They're xenoestrogens. They can affect the way your body, they can attach to estrogen receptors and possibly cause them to express themselves.

So we kind of know that, but then you got health people saying there's even worse issues or whatever. But I was thinking of the other side, right? This whole sun exposure causes cancer, whatever. And you know, when you think from an evolutionary standpoint, and I know there's different skin shades, obviously in this room we have Adam and I, and then we have Doug and Justin.

And then we have the Blancos. Yeah, so I get that. But you know, I'm like, God, we were, I mean, people were always outside, even people that lived in places that were always overcast, they were still outside all the time. You didn't go in your cave until, or your house until it was time to go to bed or whatever.

And so I'm like, you know what the problem is? The problem is with sun exposure, is that most people get almost no sun exposure, and then when they do, they get too much. And that causes problems. So I feel like the average person, the reason why we see these studies and this data is that the average person is indoors, indoors,

indoors, indoors, indoors, oh we're gonna go to the beach. And then all sun. And then they just burn their, they damage their skin. I totally think that. And that's the problem. I totally think that. Yeah, I think, I mean I feel, that's part of my speculation with my low vitamin D

levels is that I was exposed to the sun so much, so consistently for all the first half of my life. And then I went the other extreme, the other, and that way, and so my body, I think, adapted to like, oh, I'm getting so much of this. I don't need to produce as much of it because I'm getting so much of it naturally through the sun and being outside all the time.

Then all of a sudden in my 20s, I go and get none of it, basically, basically go from working 6 a.m. till 10 o'clock at night, so in a building where there's nothing but fluorescent lights for like the next decade. And then all of a sudden I get all these Vitamin D issues that pop up, and even when I supplement with Vitamin D, I'm still low.

And so I think my body- I have to supplement with a lot. Yeah, I think my body adapted to what it used to get. And then now it's just like, now I'm getting the total opposite. And I feel like, so I definitely think that that's- Even still, like, so I lived under a canopy of redwood trees for like two, like for,

how many years was that? Like 10 years. And then shifting over to like the next house that we purchased and it was just pure sun exposure. I can't tell you the difference in energy in just the way I feel it's, it's insane. The difference contrast with that. And it's just like, it's not like I'm sitting out there forever. Like I'm like getting massive amounts of sun exposure. It's like just a constant,

you know, increase for me. It's like just a constant increase for me that's been like pretty level, but it's undeniable the way I feel. Listen, stress on the body is either good or bad and what determines whether or not it's good or bad is the dosage. The dosage, is it appropriate? So if you never exercise, if you're super, super, super sedentary all the time, and then you decide I'm going to go work out all day and beat myself up. It is not appropriate. You'll cause problems and you'll cause health issues. That's, I think what happens with the sun is that people are just inside, inside, inside, then they're like, let's go to the park or let's go do this thing over here.

And then they get this mega dose of sun. And then you see studies that show, Oh, look at all these risks. Because if you were, if you were exposed regularly, that I don't with that. Of sun and then you see studies that show, oh look at all these risks. Because if you were exposed regularly, I don't think that would happen for most people. And again, of course, just like genetics with how you can handle stress from exercise or anything else, some people can handle more sun than others, but yeah, so I was thinking about that.

Because I'm like, you know, that's how people get sunlight. Nobody gets sunlight throughout the day, every day. Everybody does this whole thing where they get none, and then they're like, oh, it's the weekend, let's go get plastic. And these alarmist articles, and it pisses me off, because then it's gonna deter people from getting sun exposure,

because it's like, oh, I'm gonna get cancer if I'm in the sun, and then I gotta cover myself, and they're just like. It's all about the dose. Yeah, it gets crazy. Did you see, and I know you liked when we share when you're right about something. Did you see the article that Jackie sent over

about Nestle? No. Oh yeah, go to our group thread with that and it's the Nestle article. I saw you showed me that clip of, I think it was, was it Max Lugavere interviewing somebody? Or, I don't know, Chris Williamson was interviewing somebody who was talking about all the snack companies

like freaking out. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because of the GLP One. Yeah, so Nestle's like already, they're trying to come up with like, okay, so this is, Nestle to launch vital pursuit of frozen food brand targeting GLP One users. So snack food companies are already panicking,

their stock's already down because investors look forward and they're like, uh oh, we need to take money out. Here's the other thing, airline companies. I know, this is fascinating. Are predicting lower costs for fuel because of thinner. So okay, based off of that. Passengers. By the way, that's one of my,

American Airlines is one of my stocks I've done well on. I'm for sure buying more. Imagine if all of a sudden, over the next five years, they dramatically reduce costs on gas and so with that, profits will go up. So those stocks will go up. So there's my stock prediction for you guys is airlines, is getting on airline tickets because if that's true,

and that does make sense, and that's exactly how they calculate all this stuff like that. It makes a difference. Yeah. And when you talk about if 50% of the population losing 20% or more of their body weight, that over the court is a lot. Yeah.

They're predicting that in the next 10 years, half of Americans will be on some sort of a GLP-1 barring some crazy unknown side effect or whatever that we end up discovering. Which I agree, I think this is a cultural shifting moment with a medical intervention. I said it many times on the show. I'll tell you what, what's that saying Doug? So go ahead Justin, sorry. Oh the information to dissuade people

from looking into it is pretty thick. I talk to people, just regular people, and just kind of, you know, as a feeler to see kind of they've heard about GLPs or Zempik or anything like that, and like their first reaction is like, oh my God, like these, like it's this horrible, horrible thing that, you know, people are taking and it's like, you know, it's just, there's gonna be

a lot of education necessary to like get through all the nuance. It's not good or bad, it's how you know it's just there's gonna be a lot of education necessary to like get through all the new It's not good or bad. It's how you use it who uses it and how it's you know So can make a big could be profoundly beneficial for some people and other people it's gonna be it's kind of it's kind of hard But they are powerful. It's kind of hard to deny How that it's not gonna make a massive positive impact do I think it's gonna have a lot of negative stuff I think it'll make a massive positive impact. Do I think it's going to have a lot of negative stuff? 100%. Do you think it'll be a net positive? But do these same people feel that way about these gastric bypass surgeries and things like that?

They don't because gastric bypass isn't going to be half the population because it requires surgery and all that stuff. Yeah, so I'm going to be careful with how I proceed here because I have now been on, I've been using trisepatide at a very low dose for five weeks now. And I did a very low dose because I don't want the appetite suppression effects, but I was able to, I've have access to all this research and I have, of course, because of the podcast, I'm connected to some of the smartest people in the peptide space, some incredible doctors and researchers. There are other potential benefits that have nothing to do with weight loss.

I started experimenting with a very, very low dose. It's been five weeks now. I told you guys after week two, I'm like, I'm getting crazy pumps in the gym. What's going on? I looked up some studies and they improve amino acid and glucose disposal to muscle, okay? In other words, more amino acids and more glycogen will get thrown in your muscle, so more fuel.

So I'm like is that why I'm getting better pumps? Like this is weird. Okay, here we are five weeks later, okay? I'm building muscle and I'm strong as hell. I did today at the gym, I weighed 217 right now, which is heavy for me. Okay. And I don't know what my body fat's at. I think I'm single digit. I don't know. But I'm really tilly lean. I did like, I could do like 20 plus pull-ups with like perfect form.

So, and I'm pretty sensitive to the things that I use. So there's a lot of application. And then my gut health is because it has beneficial effects on autoimmune issues. And I'm still skeptical. It's only been five weeks, but it's weird. I mean, I'm not even, when I make that statement, I'm not even counting that stuff.

I think it's, I mean, that just, if it is positive in those things for micro-dosing reasons, right, like Dr. Tina said and what you're experiencing, then it's gonna be massively impactful and positively impactful. Yeah, because now the dose determines what you're using it for. Because there's, okay, here's,

let me talk on the other side, right? 100% there is gonna be people that abuse it, 100% there's gonna be the wrong people that get on it that have eating, that already have eating disorders, and it now is a tool for them to easily be able to, so that's gonna be all bad. And then there's gonna be people who have no discipline around hitting protein, have no discipline around

working out, that are just gonna lose a ton of muscle with it. There's gonna be a whole bunch of people too who have success with it, but then rely on the on the trisepatite to keep them from eating that way. They haven't built any good behaviors, they haven't done any internal work, and they're gonna have to take this medication for the rest of their life. So there's gonna be a lot of that stuff too. But I still think- The net positive. a lot of that stuff too. But I still think because we have so many overweight people, so many obese people that have zero discipline when it comes to restricting from these foods

that for the first time ever we have science to combat the science that's been put into these processed foods. Oh, good way to put it. Because when you say not discipline, I know a lot of people get triggered, we are in a, it's a drug-like environment with the foods that we've created. That's right. If people understood the amount of money and research that went into creating Franken foods that literally trigger the brain in drug-like ways that no natural food would ever do, no natural food would ever create this obesity epidemic. These are heavily

processed foods and so what you just said is a great way to position it. It's like science versus science now because this is not a normal environment. Now here's my challenge. My challenge is you're going to have a bunch of obese, sedentary individuals who are going to lose a lot of weight and okay, maybe they'll get health benefits from losing body fat, but are they going to replace those with health issues from losing muscle? Because if you use a GLP-1 and don't strength train, you're asking for trouble. If you don't strength train and you use a GLP,

I'm gonna say this again, in fact, I feel like this should be required. I feel like doctors should say, if you take this, you have to strength train at least once a week. Well, that's what I love what Dr. Tina was saying. I mean, when we talked to her, she said that that's, not only is it part of her protocol,

if she finds out her patients aren't doing it, she pulls the medication. So there are gonna be- There has to be standards established like that from the very beginning. The truth is though, there is gonna be sal that fall in that category. I just said, the reason why I think

it's gonna be a net positive is because there's so many, I mean, how many of the top 10 diseases and deaths are caused because of obesity. So because so many things that like conditions that people have that they die from and or are dying from are related to chronic overweight obesity that it's going to solve a big chunk of that

even if it's not the healthy, the right or the best way. And so I still think it net positives out here. And then what we hope is that people like us and other trainers that we can help educate around this, that we can support a lot of these people and teach them how to do this the right way, that we can really impact it being a big net positive instead of like just a small net positive because we're so many people. Yes, now since you gave me one, I'll give you one. So I think your point about gummy supplements

being such a brilliant move because it encourages usage, you're so on point. Talking with the people at Organifi, their gummy supplements, their gummy, oh, Shilajit and Happy Drops. Now, they're good products. What they have in them, I've dated a backup that they actually work.

But I think what also plays a big role is the fact that people just enjoy taking them. People don't enjoy taking pills. But people do enjoy eating a gummy a couple times a day that tastes good, and oh, I'm also taking my supplement. If you gave me a Sheela Jit pill and the Happy Drop pill, I would never, I wouldn't take it.

I know you wouldn't. I wouldn't take it. But we have a bag of them. The fact that it's a good, it's a taste. You guys are blowing them out. I'm so with you on that. It's just a fact. It's cause it tastes good as a gummy,

and it's like, hey, this is good for me. So it's like, I like chewing on it It's like it's so I've always wondered I told you that before I just assumed that the reason why something supplement companies are So all gonna go I think all supplements are gonna be in the car. I really do Yeah Well, too I remember talking to Courtney when she was a nurse and in one of the biggest things doctors were always complaining was people don't finish Their antibiotics all the way through. Yeah, they they would cut it short once they start to feel better or whatever. And it's like, no,

you have to like go through that entire cycle and like finish your pill sequence. So I always thought it was like a bioavailability thing, Sal, but is it just a price thing? Is it just cost a little more money to make it? It costs more and you do have to be able to put it in... I don't know if every ingredient can be successfully put in a gummy. I think some things are too bitter, too gross, maybe they're not stable in a form like that. Yeah.

But if they can, I think you're dumb not to because I think your theory is 100% right. I think if you put products in a gummy form, you are going to dramatically improve customer usage. I think so. And you brought up antibiotics. When you give your kids antibiotics, it tastes like bubble gum.

We gotta take stupid pills. You imagine if they gave the bubble gum stuff to adults? I bet they would finish that. I know. That's why I brought it up. I'm like, I even catch myself, I'm like, oh God, I gotta do another three days of this? Well, it's so crazy that they haven't done that

because you've brought this up before. There's studies on the adherence with people and patients with pills and so on that were horrible. We're better at giving it to our dogs than we are ourselves. There's a lot of deaths as a result of people that can be a trick. Not taking it. Just forgetting or just not taking it. I mean, I'm horrible.

I know I am. We have access to people like Dr. Cabral, which would cost me a fortune to go through all the tests that I've done and get everything with that. He gives me this long old protocol of pills and I can never stick to him like Dr. Cabral, which would cost me a fortune to go through all the tests that I've done and get everything with that. And he gives me this long old protocol pills and I can never stick to them, bro. I just be transparent, just straight up. Like I cannot. You don't have a supplement bag. Oh, I do. I bought the, I even spent a bunch of money on all the cool pill jar things and you know, made a thing like, Oh, I'm going to prep my food. And then this day I'm going to set out all these pills. And then it's just. But if it was gummies.

Yeah, but then I'd get them. Easy. Pop them in. Easy. Oh, my red gummies. Now I got to take my purple gummies. I know. I'm a big ass child, dude.

I agree. No, your theory's right, bro. 100%. That's the way to go. I mean, Happy Drops. I love Drew, too. You see his latest Happy Drop commercial. Bro, he's so funny.

He is a character, isn't he? He's great. He's my favorite. He's quirky in the best way. Bro, he's so funny. He is a character, isn't he? He's great. He's my favorite. He's quirky in the best way. Yeah, super smart guy. One of my favorite parts of him. Good dude. Good, good dude.

Super good dude, too. For sure. All right, so shout out. Let's talk about mindpumptrainer.com. We talked about our trainer course. Oh, yeah. If you go to mindpumptrainer.com, you can check it out.

And then do we have their some are they still able to access some of the free teachings? Yeah so mindpumptrainercourse.com is the three-day training. Beautiful. Yeah. Go check it out. We teach you some stuff there, teach you how to sell, how to close big deals. It's great. How to get leads. It's all there. Go check it out. LM&T makes an electrolyte powder that you add to your water that has no artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and the right amount of sodium and potassium and magnesium to fuel your workouts, to give you better pumps, to make you feel better. It has more sodium than the other electrolyte

powder companies. Why? Because you need more sodium, especially if you're a fit, healthy person and you don't eat a diet that's high in processed foods. Go check them out. And if you go through our link, drinklmnt.com forward slash mind pump, you can get a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Rhonda from Washington. Hi Rhonda. How can we help you?

Good morning. Hi. I'm just wondering, I have a few clients, like over 300 now that I supervise on some of glutide, mostly in that 35 to 65 year old range. I talked to them a lot about protein and resistance training. And I was going through your website and seeing all of your programs and just wondering, what, which one should they start with? Especially, most of them are untrained, have never, or rarely lift. And so where should they start? Oh, we have a perfect program for you.

Yeah, yeah, we have something coming. So we actually wrote something very specific to GLP-1 patients. But currently, a great program to start with strength training literally is MAP Starter. We created it for the new person who's being introduced to strength training. It would be totally appropriate for most people. It utilizes dumbbells, physio balls, it helps

a person with technique and form. It's a really, really great way to get started with strength training. Now, the most unique thing about what we have coming in comparison to that is, you know, we took it into consideration, like the individual variants of like how people are going to feel and some people are going to feel better as they get through the process and are going to want more like resistance training. Others are going to be have a really tough time getting in there and doing that. So the new one has this ability for them to toggle between two different like levels of I'd say

intensity and volume in a program, which I think was something that we wanted to consider because as we continue to talk more and more about this, we were finding that some people are just man, they are so low energy that asking them to do an hour workout in the gym is just is way too much. Not to mention they're so low calorie that doing that much work is not benefiting them. We just want to, we want to just get them moving and stimulate the muscle. That's why too, I think our mass 15 is another good alternative for that just because of

the, um, uh, the low volume and, and being able to kind of spread that out. Uh, so depending on other energy levels and whatnot, it, it at least introduces them to weight training, but we also have suspension training in there. So it's just, you know, a kind of a nice bridge into resistance training in general, but for very short windows. So that's another one to a good option for you. So the two programs now, Map Starter is appropriate for beginners. That's why we created it.

That's the best. Maps 15 Starter is appropriate for beginners. That's why we created it. That's the best. MAPS 15 also could be appropriate for beginners. The benefit of MAPS 15 is you don't need any equipment, a suspension trainer, and you could do it at home. So when you're talking to your patients, if they don't have dumbbells and a physio ball, then they could buy dumbbells and a physio ball to do starter, or they could get a suspension trainer, which takes up no space at all, hang in their doorway and they do 15 minutes a day of strength training.

Those two programs would be absolutely perfect for what you're talking about. We'll send both of them to you so you have both. You can look through them and then decide and recommend which one is best for your patients. To piggyback onto that, the second part of the question, and thank you Adam for sharing your journey because that's what got me started on this. I'm like, there's so many people out there, including myself. I've been on some agglutinide now two years. I lost 35 pounds to start with.

I'm on maintenance and have lifted on and off for my whole life. I just turned 55. And what progression should they make then if they get into this and they're like, this is awesome. I'm not low energy anymore. I'm able to get my protein most days of the week because I'm on a low dose of the somewhat glue type, but progressing into that and what would be the next step after the starters or the 15.

So what's nice about maps 15 is it actually has a beginner and then an advanced version. And so I'd actually move them to Maps 15, which is like, now it becomes like about a 20 minute workout and it's utilizing barbells. So it's now introducing them to barbells. So I would actually go to that first. And then maybe the third progression

would be like Maps Anabolic. But between those two programs right there, you've got enough programming to get somebody a good solid, you know, what six months to a year. Yeah. Six months to a year. Yeah. Using that. And then like you said, if you have patients that are like, like they're doing really well and they're like, Oh my God, I'm loving this. And I want to get more into weightlifting than I would move them to maps 15 advanced. And then the next progression would be Maps Anabolic would be probably perfect.

Yeah. But I mean, if you're dealing with someone who's deconditioned, um, and they start Map Starter, they could run Map Starter two or three times in a row. Very easily. And the way they would progress is just, they would get heavier dumbbells. And that's because we really, we phase all of our programming. We're the typical program that you would probably find online. People write for like a month or two, that's because we really we phase all of our programming were the typical program that you would probably find online people write for like a Month or two that's it whether but we've actually written that most of them are all three or four months long with phases

So there are we're already cycling them in there So you to Sal's point you could you could technically run it indefinitely Although I think if they're progressing well, and they want more I'd want to give them more Well, yeah, plus it would be exciting for the untrained to start seeing progress. Sure. And you guys always say that's when you do see the most progress and it's true. And so that'll get them excited and then just keep them moving through the program. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, if I, if I were working with, um, hospitals and nurses and you know, map starter would be the program that I would use probably 90% of time. Awesome. Great. So thank you so much guys. I appreciate it and keep up. Thank you, Adam, for putting your story the time. Awesome. Great. Thank you so much, guys. I appreciate it. And keep up, keep spreading the good word. Thank you, Adam, for putting your story out there.

Yes. Rhonda, real quick before you go, how long have you been actually helping with patients? How long have you been doing this with the GLP ones? Two and a half years. Nice. So I imagine you've seen quite a few people. Yes. Over 600, we've gone through a program. at any given time. I have about 350 active. What has been your overall take on it? Are you very positive about it? Is it, do you see, what are you seeing good, bad, everything about it?

Oh, it's life-changing. It's life-changing for 75% of the clients that, that do the work. You can't just get on it as you know, and eat and sit at home and you but we really do coach with lifestyle changes getting the protein in and Optimizing hormones and the whole picture. It's not it. It seems like it's a magic button, but it's not it's just a tool Yeah, like the rest like the workouts and the food and awesome. I imagine that's the 25% That's probably what you see the most challenge with is people actually hitting protein and doing to change their lifestyle. Wow.

Yeah. And I mean, there's a lot of reasons, um, slash excuses. Of course, you know, my knee hurts, my back hurts, whatever, but just getting them moving, we can get that better. And, um, you know, then the, then the fitness will progress. Awesome. Yeah, that's great. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. You got it. fitness will progress. But yeah. That's awesome. Thank you so much. Yep. Thank you guys. You got it.

Bye bye. You know what I'm realizing right now? I'll make a prediction. I'm part of this already said, but I got another prediction I'm going to make. I think that the widespread use of GLP-1s is going to really spur a mainstream strength training awareness and revolution. I think it's going to, it's already growing. Strength training training awareness and revolution. I think it's already growing, strength training awareness is growing. I think this is going to make it explode.

I also think, because we've been experiencing this the last few years, maybe the last five years even, this weird propaganda war against protein. You know, that protein is somehow bad and you don't eat animal products, whatever. I think that the widespread use of GLP-1s is going to spur a revolution in pro protein. We're thinking we're going to be hyper aware that we need more protein. It's going to have to be. So I think that the side effects, the potential mainstream side effects of

the awareness around GLP-1s is actually going to be pro the message we've been saying on the podcast for so long, which is interesting, right? Hilarious. I mean, I don't disagree with that. Medicine to support us. And to add to that, I just think it becomes necessary. We've already talked about for a long time how hard it is to hit protein intake if you're, say, a vegan.

Go try and do that when you're eating Harley. Oh my God. Do it, go GLP1 and become a vegan, and while you're a vegan, you're going to have nutrient deficiencies and health issues. That is a great point we need to talk about. I cannot see how a vegan and while you're a vegan, you're going to have nutrient deficiencies and health issues. That is a great point. We need to talk about. I cannot see how a vegan could do this without supplementing heavily

with protein powders and other supplements. Yeah, that would be problematic. Our next caller is Brennan from Wisconsin. What's up Brennan? How can we help you? Good. What's up? Hey, glad to be here. Thank you guys so much. Put on your podcast. Thank you, man. Thank you.

All right. So I'll get into my question. So I'm 25 years old. In the past two years, I lost about 100 pounds towards the end of my weight loss. I decided to get like a health checkup and I got my hormones tested and my overall testosterone was sitting around six 3030 but my estrogen is sitting at about 80 which is on the recommended twice the dose or limit so I was wondering you know if that was due to my body fat so I got my test done

after I was such high body fat and it was still just the same I've tried everything from Clomaphene to testosterone cream with the Clomaphene to testosterone cream with chrysanthin and now they suggest that I raise the chrysanthin. And I was just curious if you guys had any specific recommendations for a diet or any other supplements that isn't medical intervention. Are you having symptoms of high estradiol? So I'd say when I was earlier before the testosterone cream and everything I had low libido, I had tiredness, I think I'm holding on to

excess body fat. I got down to 7% body fat and I'm still holding on to some in like my chest and my stomach and I say that's like the symptoms and I'm still holding on to some in like my chest and my stomach. And I say that's like the symptoms that I'm having. You don't battle with like gynecomastia or anything like that at all? Um, I have slight gyno, but it's, it's not as bad as I've seen. Okay. Well, hold on. So now that you're on cream, what is your testosterone measuring? Still around six 30 to six 45.

Okay. And you're young. so they thought it would be a good idea to put you on testosterone for this? Yeah hoping to raise the testosterone but I think it may have converted more. It's gonna raise the estrogen too. It would but it didn't raise your testosterone that's why I'm confused. Your testosterone before the cream was at 630 after it's at 640 yeah so why okay that's weird why are you on the cream that doesn't make any sense I don't know who's doing your who's doing your stuff or my primary care doctor hmm okay hormone special yeah I would go to

a hormone specialist because your testosterone was fine right getting more too so what okay so this is not my expertise okay but based off what I know high estrogen in a man or high estradiol in a man could mean a number of Right. Getting more, so, okay, so this is not my expertise, okay, but based off what I know, high estrogen in a man or high estradiol in a man could mean a number of different things, but typically it just means you're converting a lot of testosterone to estradiol. Raising your testosterone would- Just convert more. Would, yeah, you'd get more estradiol.

Also high estradiol doesn't necessarily, oftentimes it does, but doesn't necessarily mean anything bad unless you're getting like high estrogen symptoms. It can actually be protective and when your testosterone is really high you still want the same ratio. So if you went on let's say testosterone injection which would bring your testosterone way higher than 630, you'd get up to a thousand or more, then you'd still want more estrogen because the the ratio you want the ratio to be somewhat balanced otherwise you can get side effects of the low estrogen. I'm surprised it didn't put you on an aromatase inhibitor, which I wouldn't

necessarily at your age especially but go ahead. Yeah so he said with my age he didn't want to put me on any blockers because potentially being infertile later. Those tend to have more side effects too. Yeah, but going on testosterone cream would put you on, would make you infertile too because there's a feedback, a negative feedback loop. So I'm just a little confused. I know chrysin is a natural aromatase inhibitor, obviously a very weak one.

But otherwise I'm not quite sure. I would work with a hormone specialist and I would take it from there and see what's going on. I'd get nutrient levels looked at sometimes. Have you gone through our forum, like MP Hormones? Have you gone through our... We have a free forum. Yeah, so we have a free forum that's on Facebook.

And then we also have, we work directly with a doctor and a company that's our hormone specialist and that's on Facebook. And then we also have, we work directly with a doctor and a company that's our hormone specialist and that's all that goes. Now there's another supplement called DIM that reduces the conversion to a more potent form of estrogen. So they'll often, and men with high estrogen will sometimes notice benefits from it.

They'll give it to women, oftentimes with estrogen related imbalances. I would run it by your doctor first, but I think you should go to a hormone specialist. For sure. And I'm surprised that they put you on a cream at 630 total test, which is great. Which is fine. And then, and then being on the cream, didn't raise it. All you've done is replaced your natural testosterone with

synthetic, synthetic testosterone. That's all you've done. Yeah. And, and, and any amount of testosterone. It could, it also, Sal, could matter what day you test it too. So this is a mistake that like, I feel like some practice. Daily, a cream is daily. Huh?

A cream is daily. So it doesn't, it doesn't spike and go down like it does with an injection. A cream keeps, so he takes it every day, right? Am I correct? Yeah, so it's testosterone is gonna be there. He tests it every day, it's gonna be there. Yeah, so it's happened.

So when you supplement with testosterone, your body stops producing testosterone. Right. It's just what happens. And it doesn't take much to do that. I mean you can actually make yourself worse by taking a little bit of testosterone because your body will shut down or lower yours. So yeah so all you've done is based off what I'm seeing is is what you've replaced your normal testosterone with synthetic testosterone which is I'm confused

as to why that would happen or why you would do that. You got to just, you got to meet with a hormone specialist, bro. Yeah. And then clomaphene, you know, clomaphene or Nolvodex or whatever, that's just a receptor blocker, essentially. It's just going to sit on the estrogen receptor. You're still going to have floating estrogen, but it's not going to be

able to dock on the receptor. And that's more like kind of symptom estrogen, but it's not going to be able to dock on the receptor. That's more like kind of symptom control, but it's not going to lower your estrogen. If anything, sometimes clomophene raises testosterone and estrogen because your body believes it's producing too little. So yeah, I'm kind of confused with what's going on. I would go to a hormone specialist. Primary care physicians are not hormone specialists and I'm and usually a doctor,

a hormone specialist would not take a 25 year old and put them on testosterone when they have testosterone. That's within a good range, because when your body stops producing testosterone, you're also going to stop producing sperm. Now it's not going to make you, you'll bounce back. I don't wanna freak you out. Yeah, so don't worry. But how long you been on the cream for? I wanna say it's about a year and a half now.

Okay. Yeah, go to a hormone, don't stop taking the cream. Go see a hormone specialist, work with a doctor, and then take it from there. Sounds good. I circle back, I would like to hear what happens because I think we're all a little baffled by what's going on So the chance for us to learn so when you get done

Meeting with the hormone specialist. I'd love for to hear feedback on what they told you and then what's what what happens from there? All right, sounds good. All right, man. Thanks for calling in. Thank you guys. Thanks for having me. You got it Weird weird either there's a lot of information we don't know. Yeah. Because there might be something we don't know. But based off what he's saying, he comes in naturally, 630 total, I don't know what his free was,

but I'm assuming it was fine if he didn't say anything. His estradiol's at 80, the range goes up to 40, so double what it's supposed to be. And the recommendation from the general, the, the primary care physician was put you on testosterone. Is it possible Sal to that the cream he's got is he's not, his body's not taking it or it's not, it's like, that's so weird to me that you're not going to get high testosterone with a cream.

That's why bodybuilders don't use the cream. So maybe that that's what, so maybe it's doing next to nothing for him. It's replacing his testosterone. Yeah. So what's the point? That's right. That's why I'm tripping. I know. And maybe there's a hormone doctor watching this and is yelling at their screen because maybe we're missing something.

But, uh, but based off of my, you know, I don't see, I don't see the angle. I want to hear. I want to get schooled because I have no idea. Especially a young guy like that. Our first caller is Jackie from Canada. Hi, Jackie. Hi. How are you?

How can we help you? Oh my gosh. First of all, I love your guys' podcasts. I listen to you guys all the time. Thank you. So question, I am a cardio junkie, like full fledged. I, I teach spin three times a week.

I love going for runs once to twice a week. Um, but I also love gaining muscle. So I know that there's kind of a bit of a problem there. that there's kind of a bit of a problem there. So I'm just curious if there's a way to keep my cardio passion, but also gain muscle, specifically in the lower body, because I am a woman and I like to have a little bit of glute action happening there. That's my question. Good question.

So, okay, so you like your cardio junkie because you love it Yeah, I like the endorphins. I like how I feel laughter. It's kind of addicting awesome. All right All right, I do you mind if I ask you some more questions before I can give you some advice? Yeah, okay Do you are you do you have a regular cycle? Have you lost your period? Are there any issues hormonal? Never. I am so regular, it's annoying. Awesome. Okay. That's excellent. Okay.

So with the amount of cardio that you're doing, very, you actually, in fact, you don't want to do too much strength training because you'll actually get the opposite result. You want to do very little strength training to get some of the muscle building effects. So someone like you, I've trained people like you who really love running and cycling. I've trained people like you, uh, who really love running

and cycling, I've trained triathletes who obviously do a ton of cardio. Um, one day a week. Yeah. One to two max. One day a week. That's it. Literally one day a week, full body. You can make it more lower body heavy if you want.

So you could start and do like, you know, two or three lower body exercises, one or two upper body exercises. So maybe five exercises total compound lifts, really focus on technique and form, don't go to failure and slowly get yourself stronger. And you'll see some great benefits. So long as you're feeding calories up. Yes. So long as you're feeding yourself.

So you want to make sure, because you won't build anything unless you're in a surplus. I can, and I could tell you're very lean. So look like you're in the in the teens with body fat percentage It'll be hard to build muscle Unless you start to really increase the calories Do you know what your caloric maintenance is or where you're sitting by any chance? Um, I don't like to track my calories But I know that I'm getting enough protein every day like that's the one thing. Um, but I know that I'm getting enough protein every day.

Like that's the one thing I have tracked. And I know that I'm like where I need to be for that. What are your, what are your grams per day? What do you, how many grams of protein do you average a day? I get about 120 to 130 a day. Great. I, I, so then here's an easy way to do this. I appreciate the fact that you hate tracking because I, uh, most of my

clients, it didn't work well for them either. So what I would do with people like you is I would just add a meal. I would just add a 300 calorie meal to your normal day. So maybe add a snack or like a liquid shake or drink before or after these these runs or cardio sessions. I would make sure that you're fueled before and after you do these cardio bouts. That's what I would make sure that you're fueled before and after you do these cardio bouts. That's also going to help. That's going to help. So like a few, a few extra hundred, you know, like 300 more calories a day

with one day a week of traditional strength training. And then you'll know you're on the right track because your strength will progress every week. You'll see nice strength gains every week. And then what typically happens is you'll see strength gain, strength gain, strength gain, strength gain, boom, muscle. So it's usually you'll see strength gain, strength gain, strength gain, strength gain, boom, muscle. So it's usually you'll see strength gain for a little while, and then you'll see the muscle pop on in a short period of time.

I see you're doing, you say three classes a week of spin you teach? Yeah. And then one to two times a week. Yeah. I actually think one here's even more prescriptive for the program. I have, I have Doug send you maps and a Bollock. And then I would take out like some of the shrugs or, uh, upper body exercise you don't want and I'd add hip, hip,

I don't want any more upper body. Yeah. Then, then I would, I would drop some of the upper body stuff and I would add hip thrust into that. Now that, that program's about two or three days a week. So you could just pick one of the workouts and do that for the week. And then the next week you could pick another one type of deal. And don't add a bunch, just add hip thrust.

That's it. Now, everything else is going to be, everything else is good. One more thing I'll say, Jackie, strength training is going to properly, okay. Is going to feel very different from what you're used to with your cardio workouts. It should, for someone like you, it should feel very boring. So you're going to be in there. You're going to do a set, you're not going to go to failure, you're going to stop about two or three reps. Don't get antsy in your rest period.

Yes. So you're going to do a set and then you're going to sit there for two minutes and then you're going to do a set. Two minutes? Yeah. At least. At least. In fact, I'm glad Sal brought that up. I'd say three. I'm so glad Sal brought that up, Jackie, because this will be a massive difference maker here is if you do the straight training correctly, two to

three minutes minimum, you need to rest between sets. And if it seems so easy, go heavier. That your goal should be to get stronger, get stronger, lift more weight, lift more weight, and keep those rest periods at least two to three minutes long. Opposite of what you want to do. Yep. Right. You do what you want to do the rest of the week. It's the opposite of what you want to do, right? You do what you want to do the rest of the week,

you do the opposite of what you want to do. Now here's why, I'm just gonna hamper this home. It's not because you need the rest because you're not ready for the set. Because with your endurance, you're gonna be ready 10 seconds later. That's not why you rest. The rest isn't because you need a break.

The rest is because we're training a specific energy system in the muscle that contributes to muscle growth and strength. So that's why you rest. You want to be able to do every set as strong as possible. Not because you're winded or because you're sweating. The workout will feel boring. In fact, when I had clients like you, I got really good at entertaining them in between sets because they were so antsy to get started. So I'd start great conversations or whatever and then, oh look, three minutes is up.

And then we would do our set and they'd be like, oh my god, this is boring. And then three weeks later, they're, you know, 20 pounds stronger on most of their lifts. And then we start to see the muscle and then what you'll see is performance enhancement for your cardio. You'll just start to feel more solid with your runs and your your cycling and so you should notice strength across the board if you do this right but the workouts gonna feel very different if it starts to feel like cardio you're doing it wrong. Yep. Really? Okay. Someone like you can never rest too long. I mean it's true. Yeah literally I want you doing at least two to three minute rest periods,

if not longer. So bring a book or something. I don't know. Yeah, read a chapter between sets. That's your prescription. Don't do anything in between sets, by the way. Don't be like, OK, well, I'm not lifting, but I'm going to jog in place.

Nothing. You just sit there. OK. Can I ask a question yeah sorry what about am I allowed to do like a weight training session early in the morning and then I can still teach spin that day or is that kind of like negating what I just did no you could that's fine yeah you're fine that's fine but I but doing it on a separate day would be ideal yeah but what you're talking about is totally fine as well just Just make sure. Feed yourself between.

There you go. That's why if I would love, I know Sal said add a meal, I would actually add a liquid drink before and after, like a couple hundred calories before and after these runs or spin. Yeah. A protein smoothie before and after will really, will really help. It's just easy, fast, get it in there, and that'll help support not losing muscle. I'll make a prediction, by the way.

If you do this right, I think you're gonna start to find that you like strength training way more than you thought you would. Your body's gonna love it. So you gotta give it the opportunity. Yeah, I'd love to hear back from you in like 60 days or so because what I love is that if we dropped one more

day of running and then added a second day of lifting eventually, like that would be, yeah, you're going too far, Adam. She'll do it on her own. If she does this right, she'll rest through her. Calm down. Let us win you over with the junk in the trunk and then we'll add another one after that. All right. All right. Okay. Thank you so much. You got it. Thanks for calling. Thanks guys. This is when just for trainers and coaches watching right now, this is when experience, uh, really plays a huge role. I knew I had to say that I did not assume that she's going to strength

train the way she's supposed to. I knew that I had to say to her, you got the rest because I've trained enough clients like this to where they, they to say to her, you have to rest. No, you're not gonna break through. Cause I've trained enough clients like this to where they're, oh yeah, I lift the weights, and I'm like, what do you really wanna do, but here's what we need. They're doing like 15 seconds of rest. It's gonna feel like torture for her at first,

so it's gonna be really tough. It's boring. But I tell you what, man, you take, if she actually bumps the calories, 300 or so calories, and she does strength training once a week. Oh, she'll see it right away. She'll definitely see a difference on it.

And, and then, then maybe, maybe we get her. Maybe she'll catch the fire. Our next caller is Marco from Massachusetts. Marco, what's going on, man? How are you guys? How you doing? Yeah, thanks. How can we help you?

Oh, um, well, big fan. First of all, um, I, I follow a few of your programs so far, not just podcasts, but the, uh, the workout programs, um, went through maps anabolic twice now currently on maps, performance and, uh, abs and the, um, I have the aesthetic lined up for for after so so I'm you know going down going down that path I had a bit of a journey over the over the last year with weight loss dropped some 60 pounds went went on TRT, gained about 30, mostly lean mass according to DEXA scan, before and after.

And now in the process of trying to get myself back down to... So when I lost weight I actually felt really good, at that weight about 270, dropped from 335 to 270, so still plenty heavy, but I'm 6'5", so it's a big enough frame. Long story short, I'm looking for basically the best way to incorporate a cut into this whole process and then which of the programs would be best suited to utilize during that? Yeah. Good question.

And a little bit more information that you wrote in used to be a world-class rower. A lifetime ago. Yeah. You're a really strong, you're a really strong dude. Aren't you? A lifetime ago. No, you're still strong, bro. Still there, man.

I can see it when I look at somebody, I could tell. All right. So you want still strong bro. Still there man. I can see it when I look at somebody, I can tell. All right. So you want to lose weight. I mean, all the, any program you follow with strength training, any of our programs you can put in combined with a calorie deficit and you'll get leaner. The pro all programs are designed to build strength and muscle in different ways. So some are more athletic minded, some are more minded for stability. Others are more, you know, maybe focused on specific lifts, but it's going to be all diet here at this point.

Do you know what your maintenance calories are? Do you know what your protein intake is? Do you know that you have those numbers? Some. So when I did my DEXA, I did the RMR, resting metabolic rates, and that put me around 3,600. How accurate that is. Um, obviously I don't know, but, um, so I do have that baseline. Um, I am struggling a bit with tracking.

Uh, I started okay. And then fall off the wagon just cause it's, it's kind of tedious. Uh, but again, I know that it's a part of it that needs to happen. So, you know, I got to suck it up. I guess I wouldn't trust the Dex,xa force, someone like you, especially because of your background, um, I'm very familiar with the sport of rowing, I've trained collegiate rowers and for people watching, um, you guys do some of the most, the highest volume training I've ever seen.

It's like water polo, rowing, wrestling. Like you guys are just, you're out there and you're just working like crazy. And it makes it challenging when you stop because your, your, your body gets so adapted to this workload. Yeah. That it's hard to judge, engage how much you're supposed to eat. Um, cause there's no way you can live a regular life and train like you used to. I mean, you were, you were hours a day just out there, um, you know, rowing

your butt off, uh, at very high intensities. So the only way to start this would be to track to see what you're currently eating to get a good baseline number and drop from there. Now you could do this without tracking, but it's going to be more of a guess. And the way that it would work is I would have you only track protein and I would have you aim for your target body weight. So whatever your body weight that you're aiming for, let's say it's 270, I would try and eat

about 250 to 270 grams of protein a day from whole natural foods and that's all I would do. And I would get it and I would eat it first. Then the rest tends to take care of itself. You tend to naturally eat less calories because protein is so satiety producing. It helps with muscle building. You know, in studies that where the calories are controlled, high protein tends to induce more fat loss as well.

So you could start there as well if you don't wanna get as meticulous as actually tracking and knowing where you're at. So I should also mention I have been on and off, uh, carnivore diet. Um, so plenty of protein there, obviously. Um, so here's the thing, like, I feel like, you know, you guys have done it plenty of time yourself, plus, uh, you know, your, your, uh, clients they work with, so I'm sure you can recognize how far away from the goal you are

without much effort for me, like, I feel like I'm, you can recognize how far away from the goal you are without much effort. For me, I feel like I could be standing on a doorstep of the physique that I want to have, but I don't have it all mapped out. And I'm not planning on stopping anyway, but I just feel like getting some reassurance that, okay, it's getting there. It may not look like it, but however long. Because right now it feels like the numbers are messing with my head. I went from 335 down to 270, back to 310. I don't like the numbers, they look very different. But the numbers are making me question,

am I doing it right, am I, that kind of thing. Do you know what your body feels? Yeah, you know what Marco, what I wanna do is I actually wanna put you in the forum, and then I would love to get some updates from you because maybe that's all that needs to be said here is maybe you're doing a hell of a lot better than you think and you're just more in your head about the process because if you were if you were in the 300s you dropped all the way down and then you got on testosterone and

then you built up mostly lean mass you're probably in a fucking amazing place. It says there, correct me if I'm wrong, you gained 24 pounds of lean body mass in two and a half months. Well, so this is another thing I wanted to pick your brain about because to me that makes zero sense. Just logically, right? Well, no, it makes a lot of sense. A guy, you're strong, your size, your genetics, your frame is-

You're getting on testosterone. That is actually not that crazy. It's possible with a guy like you. It's, it's not normal for the average person because the average person is not six, five jacked and used to be a rower. So you've got good muscle building genetics. You've jumped on testosterone. You probably did exactly what I said, which by the way means you're kicking ass and you're doing phenomenal. It's and now it's just a sticking with it. This is why I kicking ass and you're doing phenomenal. And now it's just sticking with it. This is why I wanna put you in the forum.

So I can follow with you and just remind you when you're doing a great job and that you probably don't need to change much. And in fact, I like if you're eating a good amount of calories, you're eating protein, you're feeding the body when it says and you're training, you might just be slowly leaning out and kind of building muscle. I you don't look I mean I

don't see all of you but you look like you're you got a lot of muscle on you did you did you do you know what your body fat percentage measured at do you have that number from the DEXA? Yeah so the first DEXA in September was 26 ish second one in December was 25 so not very different but a little bit different obviously. You're moving in the right direction, dude. Yeah, yeah. You went down in percentage, but went up.

If your body fat percentage didn't move, but your lean body mass went up 24 pounds, your metabolism is boosting. So if you kind of stay the course and don't go crazy with your diet, you're going to start to see some fat loss because that extra muscle is burning extra calories. And this is typically what you see when a man goes on TRT, builds muscle, is you typically see weight gain and then get leaner later on because the side effect of more muscle is a faster metabolism. But again, speaking to someone like you with a 24-pound lean body mass gain, to get to a world- class level in rowing,

besides the hard training that you did and all that stuff and your discipline, which I'm not gonna take that away, genetically speaking, you're also in the 1% of humans. So you probably have this incredible ability to build muscle, not like the average person. So, and this will work for you. Now here's what's gonna work against you. I'm gonna tell you this right now.

You probably have developed eating habits that are gonna be hard to change. You probably struggle now because when you were a rower, your challenge was probably you couldn't eat enough food. You just had to eat as much food as possible because otherwise you would, yeah. So I've trained people like you and it's like getting them to understand what portions look like now

was always a challenge. I remember I just shared. Are you following are you, are you following, uh, my journey with the triseptide I've been talking about? Have you heard me talk about this yet? Um, not as much as, okay. So, so what Sal's alluding to right now is something that I've noticed myself for so many years, I trained to be this big bodybuilder guy. And I just, when I look at a meal that my portion size

I've trained my brain that that's normal and it's just I being on the triseptide That's forced me to go so much smaller and part of that is just breaking the behaviors around eating these Massive double double everything because I was always a big guy So I'm sure that that's part of this too, but I actually think you're doing really good I want to I think I don't want to put you in the forum that's almost three months 24 pounds of lean body mass no increase in body fat percentage yeah you're about to if unless you're unless you start to go crazy with your diet you're gonna start to see some fat loss is what's gonna start happen what's your day look like

too are you do you move a lot sedentary what's your what's your day look like work wise everything well sedentary work wise but I'm you know I have a standing desk for the most part that makes much of a difference then I do intermittent fasting I've been doing it since May of last year so like a 2 p.m. to 7 p.m. window not really stressing if it's 12 to 8 and so I and, um, so, I mean, I feel like I, I guess, so you're absolutely right. It used to be, my appetite used to be absurd, um, for, for years after rowing even. But, um, one thing that actually, uh, that actually stopped it kind of was carnivore diet, which seems crazy to me for so many different reasons.

But then once they tried it, it actually killed my appetite, which nothing in this world did before. Protein will do that. I noticed the same thing too when I started to really lower my carbohydrates. It's the protein that'll do that. By the way, I don't like you fasting. I don't think a guy your size, what you're training for,

I think fasting's a terrible idea. I think it'll encourage overeating later on. Someone like you, I think would do better with four or five meals a day, uh, portioned out. I honestly would tell you, eat, eat every time you're hungry, just lead it, pretend like you're on carnivore and then fill it up with like, you know, veggies, greens, and like, then get your, like, you know, rices, sweet potatoes afterwards, if you want to do that, or just stay the carnivore

route, if you like it, if it's working. I will throw some carbs in but yeah but I mean what Adam's saying is on point but fasting I would not have you fast that's unless you had some autoimmune issue that you were working with or some gut issue fasting is the wrong approach for sure. Well let me ask you this so what Dexter did also apparently I have a really high visceral fat, which, you know, they say that it's high. If it's over one pound, I got, I had six, uh, which is pretty concerning. So in terms of the, uh, you know, melting that away, I know that's going to go away with the rest of

it, but, um, anything in particular to focus on that? No, you're doing the right things. You're doing, you're doing the right stuff. I want to get you in the forum and then let's literally just check in with each other every 30 days. Let us know where you're at, what you're currently doing. If there's anything I would add or do right now, it'd be walks. I'd tell you to, you know, hey, you know, add a half hour, half hour walk once or twice a day if you can, just to create more movement because you have kind of a sedentary day that'll help a little bit.

And I think that might be great for you. Other than that, I wouldn't want to change much right now. I think, I think you're heading down the right path. Okay. Very cool. I mean, listen, I, I, I appreciate, um, you know, the encouragement and the, uh, the forum. I mean, obviously, uh, you know, I've yet to see exactly how that functions, but you know, a lot to stay in touch. Awesome. Thank right, Marco, we'll send you a link to that. Thank you so much, guys.

You got it. 24 pounds. I am muscle. I had a female client who was a high-level collegiate wrestler, excuse me, rower. And we weren't tracking, she'd tell me what she eats, and I'm like, is that like, are you having like a six ounce chicken breast and eight ounce chicken breast?

She goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So then finally I'm like, are you weighing this? She goes, no, I'm just kind of eyeballing it. I said, can you take a picture of it, put your hand next to the thing? And she did, and I said, weigh that chicken breast. It was like 12 ounce. I was like a bodybuilder chicken breast.

I'm like, you have, I said, her nutrition was so skewed because when she was rowing, she had to eat so much just to maintain because the amount of training they do, it's crazy. It's literally crazy. This is like most high level athletes. That transition's rough. It's interesting, I mean, this is what I've been sharing

with you guys that I've been really questioning about my own behaviors around food. It's like, I've in my head for so long told myself, I have to eat this much food to be this guy. And that's been interesting to go like, man, maybe actually my portion size have just been way more than I knew. Your environment is totally different. Your behaviors are totally different. And I, we got to, yeah, adapt and change. So yeah, that's definitely something.

And I've, I've seen this a lot especially like, you know linemen they Know with yeah, you know NFL that's like a huge problem. So yeah addressing, you know The amount of calories and really getting that right It's the trip because you you've done such a good job of doing that You have learned to kind of ignore the satiety signal because what I'm noticing is like I get to a certain point I'm like, I'm actually pretty good. It's weird, but I've taught to kind of ignore the satiety signal because what I'm noticing is like I get to a certain point and I'm like, I'm actually pretty good. But I've taught myself for so long that I've got so much more to go.

I know you guys have done this too. I know, we need way less than we think. I know, you guys have done this too. You train this ex high level athlete and it's so skewed. They just can't understand portions because of how they've trained themselves for so long. Look, we have a free fat loss guide. If you want to burn body fat, lose body fat

the right way, check out our guide. It's free, you can find it at mindpumpfree.com. You can also find all of us on social media. Justin is on Instagram at mindpumpjustin. I'm on Instagram at mindpumpdestephanel, and Adam is on Instagram at mindpumpadam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body,

dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a

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