Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2352: Is Ozempic a Threat to the Fitness Industry?

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

How will GLP-1s impact the diet industry and nutrition coaches, in particular? (1:42) What makes an effective coach? (8:09) Anything that has that level of power is not going to hit the mass market. (10:01) Is the role of “coach” becoming more all-encompassing? (11:54) Will GLP-1s make a coach more or less effective? (15:46) GLP-1s, an amplifier of the current state of the industry? (20:53) Why tools by themselves are largely a waste of money. (28:39) Don’t have a scarcity mindset. (34:24) Intervention needs to lead to the fundamentals. (37:00) The BEST business model for coaches and trainers. (42:43) As a new trainer or coach, how would you look at these tools? (46:45) Whenever something comes on the horizon you need to learn it and know how to apply it or argue against it. (51:07) Related Links/Products Mentioned Exclusively for Mind Pump Listeners, our friends at NCI are really hooking you up!  This month they are giving you one of their 4 masterclasses…FOR FREE!  All you have to do is text MASTERCLASS to 615-813-6320 and they will share the 4 options with you. Visit Legion Athletics for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP for 20% off your first order (new customers) and double rewards points for existing customers. ** June Promotion: MAPS 15 Minutes | Bikini Bundle | Shredded Summer Bundle 50% off! ** Code JUNE50 at checkout ** Mind Pump #2110: Ozempic The Miracle Fat Loss Peptide: The Truth With Dr. William Seeds Mind Pump #2187: Why Building Muscle Is More Important Than Losing Fat With Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Mind Pump #1942: Lose Fat, Perform Better & Live Forever With Jason Phillips Mind Pump #2060: Maximize Fat Loss With Continuous Glucose Monitors: Kara Collier 3 Day Mind Pump Personal Trainer Webinar Mind Pump #2302: How To Be A Successful Trainer In 2024 With Jason Phillips Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest/People Mentioned Jason Phillips (@nci_ceo_jason) Instagram Dr. William Seeds (@williamseedsmd) Instagram Bill Campbell PhD Jay Ferruggia (@jayferruggia) Instagram Alex Hormozi (@hormozi) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we have master trainer, trainer of trainers, Jason Phillips. We talk specifically about GLP-1s like Ozempic. Is this going to crush the fitness industry? Now you can take something just lose weight. What are trainers and coaches supposed to do when they're competing against something that essentially guarantees weight loss? Do

they work with it or is this the enemy? You're gonna love this episode. This episode is brought to you by one of our sponsors NCI. Now they're gonna hook you up. In fact, this month, they're gonna give you one of their four master classes for free. So literally, you'll get it for free. All you gotta do is this, text the word master class to 615-813-6320. Now this episode's also brought to you by Legion.

Legion makes athletic performance enhancing supplements for muscle building, fat loss, and recovery. One of the best supplement companies there is around there. If you go through our link you'll get yourself a discount. Go to buylegion.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump. Get 20% off your first order or double rewards points if you're returning customer. Also this this month's sale, MAPS 15, half off. The Bikini Bundle of Programs, half off. Or the Shredded Summer Bundle of Programs, also half off. Huge discount. One of the biggest sales of the year. If you're interested, go to MAPSFitnessProducts.com and then use the code JUNE50 for the discount. All right, here

comes the show. Jason, welcome back again to the show. Thanks for having me. Always one of our most popular guests. Thanks, I appreciate that. So Adam and I had this discussion on one of our episodes. I'd love to include you in this because I'd love to hear your opinion. This is what Sal does when he's wrong. He goes to, he keeps going to people.

Sooner or later, somebody's gonna agree with me on this. We won't know if we're right or wrong because we're watching this develop. Right, yeah. But for the first time that I can remember, Nobody's going to agree with me on this. We won't know if we're right or wrong because we're going to, we're watching this develop. But for the first time in, that I can remember, the medical industry has created something that literally could shake everything up. I'm talking about GLP-1 agonists like semaglutide

or brand names, you know, um, we go via Ozempic. I mean, the data is showing, you know, you're going to lose 15% of your body weight. It's not a stimulant like the old fan fan or whatever. Um, it's, it works pretty much for everybody. Pretty remarkable is in the debate we had, the discussion we had was how it's going to impact like the diet industry. Because are people going to want to work with coaches and stuff when they could just use a GLP-1 and they just don't want to eat as much? How are you seeing this impact the space now or what do you think it's going to do for coach? Should they pivot? Should they work with them? What do you think?

Do I think they should pivot and work with them? Like meaning like should Should they learn how to work with these peptides? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Like we're all like, we're all extremely naive if we think that this isn't going to continue. I mean, we understand big pharma is out to make money and I don't care how many like dietary interventions have come into play in the last 15, 20 years, you know, a hundred years, whatever. People are still people and they want a quick fix.

Like I always say, you know, we're this like weird place in the industry right now where I think we understand more about the human body than we ever have. I think that's pretty undeniable actually. Like physiology hasn't changed, like, you know, biology hasn't changed. It's not like the body has changed, but our understanding of it has clearly changed and we're way more advanced. Yet obesity is still at an all time high.

So it's like, are people gonna seek this out? Fuck yeah they are. Like fat people are fat because they don't like health and fitness, right? Like I tell nutrition coaches all the time, I'm like, stop selling a diet. Like it's like going to an overweight person being like, you know what, like I know you hate dieting,

so give me money for like the one thing that you hate. Like instead they're going to invest money in something they don't hate, which is they can still go out, they can still eat some of the things they want and they can lose weight with these drugs. So yeah, I mean, do we like it? No, like, do we, well, let me rephrase.

Do we like it? I don't know. And that sounds weird as like the owner of a nutrition company, but we don't know enough about it to hate it as much as we want to hate it. I think as an industry, we're so conditioned to want to hate anything that is not rational advice. But like, what do we not know about like GLP? Like there's a lot of things. In fact, like, you know, Mastin Kipp, some big mindset guy, right?

Like really like deep into like psychology, like brain function, right? And I don't know this, but he told me there was peer reviewed data out there that shows that like GLP, he specifically said semaglutide, that it actually enhances or supports brain function. And that there was a lot of positive benefits for brain health coming from this.

I've never been so blown away by the potential of a medical intervention. And this is just all preliminary, right? So things could change, but what you said is true. So it doesn't reduce appetite by boosting catecholamines like epinephrine and it's not a stimulant. It seems to change behaviors based off of how you tend to want to comfort yourself. So they're even finding people are not drinking alcohol

as much, not smoking cigarettes, not biting their nails. They're like, wholesome behaviors. How can we not say that's positive? Yeah, well, and so there's two schools of thought here. One of them is, oh, we're screwed because people are just going to take this and then everything's solved for them.

I don't think it's going to solve everything. I think this potentially could be used as a remarkable tool that a coach can use to dramatically improve success. Cause you're still going to have to develop better behaviors. You can't just eat less. You're going to learn better behaviors. Yes.

And keep them. Cause the GLP ones cause muscle loss as well. They don't cause muscle loss. The reduction in calories cause muscle loss and fat loss. Just like if somebody went on a diet and didn't increase their protein and didn't lift weights, so they're still going to need some coaching.

And if they want to go off, they're definitely need some coaching. If I'm a coach, you know, regardless of what's happening, I'm probably plugging myself into all of these clinics right now. Just knowing unequivocally your, your ideal clients are going there first and it's not cheap. Like I don't know out of pocket what it is, but I And it's not cheap. Like I don't know out of pocket what it is, but I know it's not cheap. And so the people that quote unquote

don't have money for coaching have plenty of money for GLP. So it's like, all right, well go plug yourself in because while they're doing it, you know, and I think a lot of, even when like the HCG protocols were popular, you know, a lot of practitioners, I think are very conflicted. Because I have to assume the margins are astronomical, as with most things, pharma.

And so if the margins are astronomical, I think that the provider is like, well, I need to make the money. But then they're like, well, is this really the right advice? And so I think they actually feel better plugging a coach in with it. Because I think that coaching is far more readily accepted as the quote unquote right vehicle to weight loss success.

And maybe like, you know, we're living in this crazy time. What if like 50 years from now, they're like, oh, those fucking dickheads back in the early, you know, 2020 is all they thought about was coaching and they could have just been taking these supplements. You know what I mean? Like we don't even know what's coming. And so there's a bit of like zealotry on our own end

to be like, we are the be all end all solution. I think that currently relative to the data that we have available and the way that lives have been changed, like I think we all agree coaching is the right vehicle. Yeah. Right. Like I definitely think so, but like we don't know.

Here's what I, okay. Here's why I love what you're saying because there's always been in the, in the training space, there's always been this strain of zealotry where it's like, I remember in the, in the late nineties, when I was a trainer, there were trainers like supplements, no supplements. I'm anti supplement. Uh, you know, everything has to be completely natural type of deal. And they would call it natural.

If a GLP one was a herb, you wouldn't be hearing the same pushback, I think, from coaches because they feel like, oh, that's natural, whatever. I think, uh, as a, an effective coach uses all the tools at their disposal. Uh, so long as they're used appropriately for the right people. I agree. That's what makes you effective. effective coach uses all the tools at their disposal, so long as they're used appropriately for the right people. That's what makes you effective. Not that they're all good for everybody, I'm not gonna give everybody everything,

but I'm gonna look at the individual, and as a coach, I'm gonna say, okay, here's all these tools that we have available, which ones are gonna be the ones that are gonna help this person the most, and which ones are gonna help me help this person develop this long-term relationship with diet and exercise.

Let me ask you this. How many coaches do you think are just right now turning a blind eye to it and labeling it as bad purely because of pharma? And I think that- Stupid. Like based on, you know, just relative to what you were just saying, I think that a lot of coaches need to stop that zealotry and saying, oh, it's pharma. It has to be terrible.

They think they should be in a position where they're like, all right, I need to understand more. And, you know, candidly, before we started this, you were like, do you want to talk about GOP? And I was like, admittedly, I don't know a ton about it. Like I can talk about its role in the industry and things like that, but I have not gone into it, but that's because I don't practice a lot in the nutrition coaching space anymore.

If I was still very active, it's something I would be researching. I would want to know why it's working, the effects, but more importantly, does this have any role in what I'm doing with my clients? Is there a way that this can aid my business, the people that are getting into it? Because whether we like it or not, it's not going anywhere for quite some time.

I think for somebody who claims they don't know a lot about it, I think you've communicated probably how it's going to play out the best. Yeah. And the argument that I had with Sal was that I don't, this isn't going to change anything in my opinion. Like it's going to be another tool in the toolbox. The game is going to be the same though. I ran in it. And yes, it is the, uh, it is the most groundbreaking thing that we've seen to date,

as far as some sort of a supplement intervention that somebody could take. So yes, I think there's going to be massive adoption. I think the trainers that don't get on board and find out how to integrate and use it are going to get left behind. I think it's going to be super valuable to all of you. I definitely think there's going to be people that say, oh my God, changed my life, changed my behaviors, was amazing. But when you look, when you pull back and you look at the entire space,

I don't think it's going to disrupt so much that it's going to put nutrition businesses out of business, or it's going to become the way that answers for it. It's that you're still going to have to put the work in. You're still going to have to change behaviors. You're still going to have to figure out the root cause. What put the hundred pounds on you? There's too many things that you still will have to do in order to be a healthy person. I think, I mean, and maybe this is just me being a pessimist. I think if you look at

the industry or you look at our world as a whole, if anything becomes that powerful, I think that our world is going to make it so exclusive and so difficult to obtain. It has no ability to disrupt the industry. Sure, sure. I mean, like if this really becomes like the holy grail of like, holy shit, every single person that touches it can lose the weight, they desire to lose the weight, it can retrain their habits and like, it becomes this miracle drug that like,

the fitness industry has said doesn't exist. Bro, our fucking government's gonna step in right away. And literally be like- You know what I think is more powerful than you is, is stem cells. And they've done that. The government has banned it the u.s. we can't go and so and so I I just think that like

And I think anything that has that level of power. Yeah is not gonna hit the mass market here I don't we're not that's not gonna happen. Here's here's the here's what's gonna happen I strongly believe if you believe all of the value of diet and exercise is weight loss If you believe all of the value of diet and exercise is weight loss, then yeah, maybe this will do that. But is that all the value? Right. It's not even close to all the value. We've had this discussion before on the podcast where people would ask us way before GLP once

became a thing, they'd say, what if they invented a pill that made everybody fit and healthy? It still wouldn't give them all the value that you get from going along the journey and the things that you learn and the relationship you have with exercise and pain in your body and the self-acceptance and the, you know, you're still not going to learn all the things you would have learned. So I'm interested. So then does that help our industry or does it help other industries? Because I look at what you're saying and immediately as you're saying this, I mean, I'm in agreement,

right? And I'm putting myself in the role of speaking with a potential nutrition client. And they always, you know, whenever you say like, what do you want to achieve? I want to lose 20 pounds. I want to look better. Right? And I'm always of the opinion, all right, snap my fingers. You go get on the scale. It's down 20 pounds. You look in the mirror. You see what you want to see. Are you happier? Initially, their gut reactions, yes, 100%. Unequivocally, yes. It's like, all right, well, your husband doesn't look at you any differently.

Your kids don't treat you any differently. Your friends don't compliment you every single time they see you. And after a week, nothing changes. You just look a new way and the scale is the same. Are you still more fulfilled? And they're like, I don't know. And so is that a nutrition coach?

Is that a psychologist? Is that a psychologist? Is that a therapist? So now are we looking at is the role of quote unquote coach, is it becoming more all encompassing? And I've always been of the belief that the answer is yes. I've always been, and I think all of us in this room think the role of a coach is far more than rep counter, number provider, macro provider.

I think the reason we're all such good friends is like, we all know the real catalyst to change is all of the things that precede the dietary intervention. I just made a point on the podcast that when you, when you move to being an exceptional coach, it's when you learn how to detach your clients from the mirror and the scale, when you learn to teach them to attach all the work that they're putting in, the sacrifice with the food choices, with the going to the gym two or three times a week, once you learn to attach those things to all the other things in their life. They're a better husband or wife. They're a better father or mother. They're better productivity at work, their energy levels are sustained through the day, their skin is better, their mood is better. When you learn to attach all of those things to the work they put into the gym and the

nutrition is when you get to that level. And that has nothing to do with the mirror or the scale. That's the ultimate place anyways. It is. And that's, I think, where people are going to, I think that's what people are going to start to realize. Right now, if a coach is listening, if they're a new coach and they think, wow, I could be the most successful, effective coach if I could

just make my clients less hungry, you're terribly wrong. That's not the solution that'll help. That'll help a little bit. It's like taking the edge off a little bit. So what I think these GLP ones will do, they'll take the edge off a little bit, which is going to, it's like antidepressants for depression. Does it solve the problem? No, but it helps a little bit.

Like if you're so dark that you can't even get off the couch, well, maybe a medication that gives you just enough to get off the couch, to do the things that really make those massive differences, like get on with your life and exercise and go outside and develop relationships. Well, now it's a tool that's been used in the right way. I think a GLP one's like that.

If you're a smart coach and you see this and you go, okay, this is going to help propel this person forward a little bit to help me do my job better. And it's now this incredible tool that's just been invented that I can use to help me be more effective. I think that's the smart approach. It's not going to crush, not gonna crush what we do. But if you don't get on board with it. Let me ask an ignorant question.

This literally shows you how limited my research is on this. So, GLP is only working with some dietary intervention, correct? It works because it makes you eat less. So the dietary intervention happens. So is this the first ever appetite suppressant that's been introduced? No.

Okay. So as we actually start to play this out, we've seen this movie, right? That's right. And so we've seen things take hold and do I think it's probably better than those things? Sure. Do I think it's more advanced? Yeah. I mean, I love what Mastin's saying and I love the notion that it's improving brain health. I think there's probably advanced? Yeah, I mean, I love, you know, like what Mastin's saying and like, I love the notion that it's improving brain health. I think there's probably a lot of upside here. Do I think that we're at the next level where there's gonna be massive industry disruption yet?

I don't, like my gut says no right now. Again, very, very limited research. I don't wanna speak from a place of ignorance, but you know, I think that, I think we're trending, man. I think we're trending towards a place where pharma or the industry, they're finding something, man. And there's something coming down the pipe. I think if you're a good coach, what you want to do is you want to look at

Ayurvedic medicine, you want to look at Chinese medicine, Western medicine. You want to use things like strength training, cardiovascular training. You want to look at Chinese medicine, Western medicine. You want to use things like strength training, cardiovascular training. You want to look at mobility. You want to look at meditation, acupuncture, chiropractic work, body work. You want to work with conventional doctors and functional doctors. And now that's not for everybody, but you want to have those at your disposal and you want to be the maven. The coach that's the maven, that's the guide.

The guide that goes, hey, I'm coming to you and here's my challenges. Here's my issues. What can I do? And you go, Oh, I've got this guy over here that works really well with this. Let's have you work with that a little bit. And so with the GLP ones, I think what it's going to do is it's going to potentially make the coach more effective. I don't think it's going to take away. In fact, I'm excited about this because if you're, if coaches are open to that, yes, that's the, that's the problem. I don't even know if I agree with that

though, because one of the biggest knocks on GLP ones is the muscle loss. One of the hardest things to teach a client is the art of fat loss while retaining muscle. So go even deeper. Right? One of the hardest things to teach a client is that, is that, when you use the word client right now, you're using it in the context of somebody that, up until very recently, hasn't even had access to GLP. So now we're talking about a different avatar. Because the avatar of somebody that comes in to use GLP is already somebody that is going to fight you on doing the things to preserve muscle loss. So now we're talking about somebody

that doesn't give a shit about that. And we're trying to teach them that in conjunction with them taking the quick fix of a pill or an injection. That's right. I think for every- They're still under-muscled at the end of the day. That's it. For every client that it's gonna be revolutionary

or game-changing from, it's gonna present a challenging client that's gonna make your job harder. You're still going to need a guide because obesity seems to be the smoke. The fire seems to be the fact that people are under muscle. That's what the data is now starting to show. You're better off being fat and strong than being skinny and weak. And so when you just eat less, as we all know, by the way, GLP ones don't make you

lose muscle, they make you eat less. If you just ate less and you didn't strength train and you didn't bump your protein intake, your body will adapt to that reduced energy intake by slowing its metabolism down. One of the primary ways it does is it pairs muscle down. So what people are going to realize is that they're smaller, but they've lost muscle, maybe some strength, maybe some performance. It's not this panacea. So they're gonna want some answers, they're gonna need some coaching. And if it does change the brain in the sense

that it makes people less likely to be impulsive, you can work with that as a coach. I'm not sure I agree. Yeah, I do. I don't think people are as aware as you're giving them credit for. I think that if. Oh, I think I don't. Because when. I misspoke, I think we need to make as aware as you're giving them credit for. Yeah. I think that if, Oh, I think I didn't, because when you,

I think we need to make them aware as well. Yes. Okay. Because when I have this conversation, you're, I don't, Justin, are you, are you here? Are you, I'm here. It's not sound like he's like totally making the case that I was making. You're making a case that I made against you. Well, no, that we were saying specifically about Weight Watchers, by the way, I changed my mind when I saw that. I did change my mind.

Yeah. I just, I think that one of the strategy. You didn't admit that. I did change my mind when I saw the strategy. I did change my mind when I saw the strategy. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I think that one of the things that we all are kind of saying and agree on is that it was just like, I mean, it's, it's, it's, you're still going to have challenges with these clients. And even though it can, it potentially could really help, like, let's say somebody has this crazy impulsive behavior around binge eating, right?

The client who is not under eating calories, they are eating 5,000 calories and 3000 of it comes from ice cream at midnight. And this GLP one breaks that, right? It's like unlocks this potential to let go of that. It still presents the challenge of I got to get that person to go to the gym and lift weights. They got to still hit enough protein to hang onto their muscle. And so even though it's groundbreaking for them to break that habit, and maybe initially they see a scale go down by 15, 20 pounds, it's still gonna need

the nutrition education, the coaching, the mentoring, all that. Let me ask this too, I mean, and again, this is coming from a place of ignorance. I don't think, at least to my knowledge, that GLP is being promoted as something you're gonna take forever. The data seems to show that you're right,

that you go off and you probably gain the weight back. Although anecdotally. Even if you don't gain the weight back. Like let's just, let's play it out that you go on and you don't gain it back. Your habits haven't changed. Like, and this is what I really don't think.

You're using less of what you had before. I don't think that the cognitive benefits are permanent. The same way the weight loss, in essence, won't be permanent. Yeah. Like, you know, so this is coming from a former anorexic. I, you know, we talked about on a previous podcast. I don't, at 39 years old, I still somewhat at times

categorize myself as an anorexic. And I always say it's because it's anorexia nervosa, right? It's nervous system disorder at the core. And so I believe that my brain is wired as such to always have minor anorexic tendencies. Have I done a lot of like self work and like things like that to improve that? Absolutely. Do I think my brain is in a healthier place? I absolutely do. But it doesn't

mean I don't still have the tendencies. And so you're going to take these people, you're going to remove the stimulus of the drug. You're going to remove the appetite suppression, and we're going to expect that magically we've cured everything. No. And, and I don't think that it's going to happen. No, it just provides a window.

If anything, different. Does it just seem like it's a less invasive stomach staple? Well, as we keep talking, I think it's, I'm hearing that it's just an amplifier of the current state of the industry. So here's what, so I'll bring up two things. One is, and this was from talking with Dr. Seeds, who's one of the leaders in research in these type of peptides. And when you develop new behaviors, so the way it's been explained to me is like, if you look at like

fresh snow and you see how people have been skiing down one particular path, that pathway starts to get deeper and deeper. Those are the pathways in the brain. And the real deep ones are the ones that people will naturally fall into. In order to create new pathways, you've got to go through that fresh snow.

And at first it's kind of hard, but then little by little you start to, you start to dig a new pathway and then the old pathway starts to get filled in with snow. So you're going to have to learn how to develop these behaviors while under the assistance of GLP-1s in order for it to stick. Otherwise, if it's purely reliant on the appetite suppression, then you're going to go right back to where you were before. Right. Yeah, the old behaviors remain. Yes. That's why it's purely reliant on the appetite suppression, then you're going to go right back to where you were before. The old behaviors remain. Yes.

That's why it's just like a, and I think that's how the coaches need to look at that as an opportunity for them getting somebody in the right state to have the right intention going into the training. With this being said, where are we teaching them about the new behaviors? Because all I'm hearing is that we're modifying behaviors. And if I zoom way out and I think about behavioral change, it's the, for lack of a better word, abandonment or departure of previous behaviors,

but it's the undertaking of the new behaviors. So does GLP magically fucking go to your brain and it's like, here's the right fucking new behaviors? Like that shit doesn't exist. So it's like, here's the right fucking new behaviors. Like that shit doesn't exist. So it's like, where's the professional that's coming in saying, here's the right behaviors aside from eat less. All it, exactly. All it does is take a little pressure off that.

And you know, like any, um, pattern when you put pressure on a pattern, you tend to go into the pattern that you have wired. So it takes a little bit of pressure off. So it's no different than a bad movement pattern that someone develops through exercise. As a trainer, I know if I put them under load, they're going to go right to that bad pattern.

For me to train a new pattern, I take the load off. We train a new pattern and make that one strong. And then I can add load and now they have a new pattern. Or we distract it with vibration or, you know, the techniques like that. So, so coaches, the coaches that right now are looking at this and going, it's terrible,

it's pharma. Number one, what's going to happen is the consumer is going to look at you and say, you're wrong, I lost lots of weight and I solved this problem, not really solving the problem, solving part of it. So that's number one. Number two, you're shooting yourself in the foot. I think as a coach, you gotta look at this and go, how can I use this to benefit my clients appropriately,

or the clients that it's appropriate for? If you can do that, I think you're gonna be ahead of the curve. Otherwise, you're gonna come across as the naysayer who was wrong, because the consumer doesn't really understand, all the consumer knows is, I dropped 20 pounds, so obviously you're an idiot. Yeah, they see weight moving.

Yeah. That's about it. I mean 20 pounds. Obviously you're an idiot. Yeah, they see weight moving. Yeah. That's about it. I mean, I think that you're gonna see, you know, the GLP crowd become just another crowd of zealots, right? Just like any dietary intervention, keto, fasting, carnivore, like the raving fans are the raving fans. The more you go against them,

the more they're gonna stand up for what they believe in. And so, you know, if you're a coach and you really think that this is going to be around for some time, which the data says it probably is for right now, um, not being willing to lean into it is you are absolutely artificially shrinking your total addressable market. And if that's a business decision that you're down with because of a personal belief that you'll back it with, then like more power to you. But I would be hard pressed to find the one coach and that is, you know, not a data, that is not a researcher, but like somebody

that is truly living in the field of coaching that can go out and show me enough research that says like I should not be willing to plug in. Cause again, like I'm not on top of my research game, but I haven't seen it. I remember working with, I worked with, I had a client who was a psychiatrist and also did a therapist. And I remember we were talking about Enzyl Lytics, so anti-anxiety medications. And at this time I was a younger trainer and I was like anti anything pharma. Right. And so him and I got this kind of debate and he

said, Sally goes, you're right, you could take an Enzyolytic and then just always take it forever. He goes, but my approach and the success I've had is when people are so crippled with anxiety that they can't go work out, they can't do the things that they know that we know that will benefit them, then it makes a big difference. Then what I do is I put them on and then we create these new behaviors and then we take them off and they've got these behaviors that stick with them and then the anxiety is gone or maybe they stay on a low dose or whatever because everybody's a little different. I think you're an idiot if you don't look at all the tools at your disposal. So okay, let's pull out of like the drug scenario and let's look at, let's just look at fat

loss through a different lens. I think we all agree that extreme calorie deficits are not the best thing in the world. Could we also agree that an extreme calorie deficit used for two to four weeks at a time, followed by a period of maintenance does yield a decent result? Could we also argue that it might be advantageous for the mindset of a consumer? Yeah. So then are we really vilifying extreme calorie deficits? No, we're saying it's a tool in a toolbox.

Right. And so here we are and like, we're looking at this through a computer. Yeah. And I mean, you know, shout out to, you know, Bill Campbell and like the lab down at USF, they're doing research right now. We're getting ready to fund it.

NCI is on rapid fat loss and we're going to actually test pretty extreme calorie deficits paired with periods of maintenance calories. Yeah. Almost like intervals. I think that also that makes evolutionary sense. That's probably how humans ate. I mean, I completely agree by the way, but I, is it really any different?

Are we discussing anything different? But again, like I think that it's the stigma. It's the stigma that we're talking about a drug. We're talking about something that's been manufactured. We're not talking about, you know, just behavioral control, you know, effectively nutritional interventions. It's just behavior change right at the end of the day.

Are you seeing coaches now, I mean, it's kind of staying on the line of like, of like using new tools. Are you seeing more and more coaches now use things like blood tests and nutrient tests? Because I wish I had that available. So here's, I have a really mixed opinion on that. So yes, the, to answer the question. Yes.

I'm seeing a tremendous amount of it. I also don't think it's great. So I think as with everything, when used properly, it's fantastic. And I agree with you. I wish I knew more about it early. I actually went through a functional diagnostic nutrition program when I was early in the space. And it was so cost prohibitive for most people at the time to be able to order lab work. And I never ended up using it very much. But I think it's getting, it's more easily accessed now.

But now I think you're seeing coaches go online where like, oh, fear mongering, right? You're fat because your hormones are fucked. Like you're fat because your guts are fucked. And it's, and I think we're seeing the pendulum swing too much. I think we're seeing coaches literally take something that, like you said, we all agree, man, like it would have been great to have access to these tools. They're instilling fear in the consumers. And I think that that's a slippery slope, you know?

What if we take that back to the GLP conversation and it's like, oh, well, if you haven't used GLP to lose your weight, like you're just slowing down and you're taking way too long. And like, what if that becomes a prevailing message? I think that controlling a narrative and, and making sure things are done properly at the right time in the right sequence, you know,

I don't think you or I would ever take an overweight person and immediately be like, Oh, well you're overweight cause your hormones are fucked. Right? Like, we're going to at least try some levels of interventions. Now, if we see maximum levels of compliance and things just aren't adding up, might we dive deeper? Absolutely But I don't think we're starting there. It's all how you use it It's like we with CGMs are like this too like continuous glucose monitors I think on their own client a person using it by themselves reading their blood sugar

I think it's a waste of time. I think if you work with a coach and reading their blood sugar, I think it's a waste of time. I think if you work with a coach and they can connect the dots for you, like, oh, your energy dip at noon, that was a blood sugar crash. And right here, you're anxious, blood sugar spike, let's see what food is, and connecting the dots for the client

is just now a tool that makes you that much more of an effective coach. But tools by themselves, I think, are largely a waste. A hundred percent. And I mean, you know, like I know about lab work, when you go in and you look at labs, looking at one, you know, one piece of lab work, like in isolation, doesn't tell any story at all.

Fractional story. Right, yeah, like it's really not a story. It's a component. And yet if you give people an isolated variable, they're like, oh, well, I'm gonna make up my own story about it. And so same thing with CGM, you know, they look at one data point, oh my God,

my blood sugar is so high. Like, no, fucker,'m going to make up my own story about it. And so same thing with CGM, you know, they look at one data point, Oh my God, my blood sugar is so high. Like, no fucker. You just had like a fruit roll up like, like no shit. Your blood sugar spike, you know? And so it's like, you know, I wore a CGM, dude, I became obsessed. It was actually a problem. Well for someone like you see this, it was such a, I would not have you use a tool like that because your, your, your past. Yes.

It actually triggered those behaviors. Did it really? A hundred percent. So what happened? What did you end up finding that with yourself that you ended up just restricting more and more? Yeah. Because I would literally just find ways to manipulate, to bring the blood sugar

down and a lot of times it was like, and for, you know, for me, a lot of it's like stress, so it's like, I didn't do a good job of that. So I'd artificially bring it down by not eating or, yeah, it was, but just like the constantly being worried about what I was putting in my body, which anorexic behavior, right? Great example of the wrong, a tool that's for the wrong person.

Absolutely. And like, the company had sent it to me for free and you know, they were like, just try it out. And I thought it was great technology. And I think I've had really good success using them with certain clients. Like I have a WWE wrestler right now getting ready for a WrestleMania. I actually really want to use it in the off season with him. He's probably going to listen to this.

So he'll know exactly who I'm talking about, but like he's, he's the epitome of somebody that struggles to ride the line of the right dose, responsive stress. And so it's like the more is better. And dude, like we're prepping for mania now we're five weeks out and he looks the best he's ever looked at five weeks out. And it's like, yeah, you're controlling stress this year. Like he has like a full day off.

He's, he's working, he's actually working with Jay Faruja on his training and you know, he's got an appropriate dose response there. You know, we've been able to feed him more. We've controlled the cardio. Like he's not overdoing it. He's like, this is for the first time ever, I'm not gonna overdo it.

And like, we're in an amazing place. And so, yeah, I mean, it all comes back to, it all comes back to application, doesn't it? Right? Like when I built NCI, I knew I couldn't reinvent the game. Like I couldn't manufacture new physiology or new biology or anything like that. But I knew that nobody had really spoken to application.

And I think that if we're looking for educational protocols to evolve, we're never going to evolve the science, right? We may be able to speak to our understanding of the science, but what we're always going to evolve is the application of the science. And so if we're not keeping up to date with the GLPs, if we're not keeping up to date with the use of hormone testing, things like CGM,

and we can't actively speak about their integration into what we're doing, then by premise, we're a fraud. Because that's the words that we took when we became a coach, is that we'll always look for the best application for the client. And if we're just turning a blind eye to it, if we're immediately refuting it because it comes from pharma, then shame on us. Yeah. I remember figuring this out halfway through my career because I think a lot of

trainers and coaches also have the scarcity mindset where they're like, okay, well, I can't become an expert in this testing and I don't know functional medicine. I don't have the time to learn it and I don't understand peptides or whatever. Then they're afraid to send these people to other experts that they work with or that they know because, oh my God, if they're spending money over here, they have less money to spend on me. I remember feeling that way, but then I remember thinking, look, I just want my clients to have the

best success, so let's just lead with that. Here's what I found. Clients that worked with me, but that also worked with one or two or three other practitioners that I referred them to, because I ended up building a network, never left. Never left. Or the first to refer to you. Yes. Oh, on top of it. Right. Oddly enough, by referring to other practitioners,

you've now opened yourself up to referrals, which instantly grew your lead generation. Right. And it's like, but you're right. Though like it's the scarcity mindset, but there's also there's a scarcity mindset of knowledge. It's like, I remember're right though. Like it's the scarcity mindset, but there's also, there's a scarcity mindset of knowledge. It's like, I remember when I first became a coach, my knowledge base was just from the people that had helped me through anorexia. And they were all very like bro diets,

like, you know, tilapia and asparagus and this and that, right? And so that was my knowledge base at the time. And had you told me in the very beginning that like, you could do this macro thing or you could have like flexibility and I'm like, fuck off. Like, you know, my, my premise was that food was fuel, right? Cause that's how an anorexic season. And so I was just like, you know, there's no way. And I was unwilling to accept anything different.

And I look back and it's like, what, if someone's always like, what are the biggest mistakes you made? I don't think I ever intentionally advised somebody improperly. Like I've never once woke up and was like, you know what? I really want to fuck you up to like, like that was never, but like, so I don't really think I made quote unquote mistakes. I think I always gave the best of myself relative to my knowledge at that point. The mistakes I made were really being close-minded

to evolving my toolbox, so to speak. And I think that that's what a lot of coaches have to now accept in this space, that there are new tools. It is rapidly evolving. I'm somebody that hates tech advance, because I suck at tech. So when I finally understand it,

now I feel like I'm fucking 10 years behind. So I'm like, why can't we just stay the same? I mean, that's it. It's like, you know, that's analogous to how nutrition, yeah dude, I'm getting old bro. But like. Updates. Exactly.

But that's how nutrition coaches are right now. You know, it's like, ah, I don't want to adapt this new shit. Like, oh, like can't we just talk about food and behaviors? Here's how I think coaches should look at themselves. I think, and we, we, we did a three day course for trainers.

And I touched on this a little bit. I think if you look at health, the professional health sphere, you can include quite a few things in that, right? You can include yoga instructors, you know, strength training experts. You got nutritionists, you got functional medicine, physical therapists, Ayurvedic medicine, Chinese medicine, meditation. Like you could put like lots and lots of categories in this health sphere. And I strongly believe that the coach or the trainer is at the center.

Yep. The coach and the trainer at the center who understands what direction to point and where to pull from to help this person. Because for a consumer, it's confusing. If you're a consumer and you just want to lose weight or you want to improve your health and you go online, there's so many different approaches. Well, I got this acupuncturist over here that says that they could do this thing over here

and then there's herbs I can take. But then there's this like performance supplements and then there's these, all these diets. And then I read that strength training is great, but this person over here says it's HIIT training and this person over here says it's all about yoga because I'm stressed out or whatever. Imagine if you're that person in the center that they go to and they say here's my challenges, here are my issues, can you help me out?

And you say, well, yes, I can help you out and I also have access to all these other resources and I'm going to use all the tools at my disposal to make sure that you find long-term success. You have made yourself so valuable as a trainer and a coach that you're irreplaceable. I think that there is an important conversation that needs to be taught though to trainers on when to reach for that tool, right? Like I think that one of the things

that you have to learn to resist with that client, because when you get this client and they have already been marketed to, they have already heard, and they're like, I heard about this, my friends do the GLP-1. And then my other friends got the glucose monitor. I want to try that. And like, they want to try everything or they've got a friend who's something changed their life. And I think that the real takeaway from the conversation that I'm hearing you guys are

having right now is really that as coaches, I think our first and foremost goal is to apply. The foundational stuff. Yes, the basic strength training, hitting your protein intake, having balanced meals, like things like that, sleep, stress, managing all those manageable buckets, behaviors around all those things. And then, and only then, when we've been applying that consistently, there's been adherence, and we can't figure out why we're not moving.

Now maybe I go to blood work, now maybe I reach out to a glucose monitor, now maybe I go over to GLP once. First though, teasing out all that, because I think if you try to do one of those as a shortcut, you'll eventually make your way back to the starting line again. I think there's very few universal rules in fitness nutrition. And I think that all the ones like the few that there are, are all governed by one,

which is that context is king. And so I think that if we're looking at the lens of good, bad, ugly or indifferent, it's always situation specific. It's always gonna be contextual. So how can we sit here and refute anything? How can we immediately outlaw anything and absolutely make the blanket statement that it's bad if we don't even understand the context by which we're talking?

Like you're gonna tell me that we got a 500 pound person and GLP could rapidly accelerate losing their like losing weight. And because it like doesn't support muscle or any of this that like them getting like fucking 15% of that weight off faster is not a benefit. Yeah. Of course it is. And, and if that becomes a catalyst to the next

phase, like sign me up all day, every day. That's the point. So that's why I said that the coach is at the center because the foundational fundamental stuff is what coaches know. 100%. Activity, basic diet stuff, not like functional medicine diet or whatever, but like diet, exercise, sleep, managing stress, and then building behaviors around that. And then you look at the tools, either reach for them when the foundational stuff

is not working or reach for them to help support the foundational stuff. Like if sleep is a major issue and it's really hard and they're doing all the foundational stuff, turning off their electronics, not eating right before bed, this, that, and the other, now you're like, okay, you know what? There's some herbs from Ayurvedic medicine

that have been shown that help temporarily with helping people get asleep. Or maybe a little bit of melatonin may help with this particular individual type of deal. That's why I said they're at the center because. Intervention needs to lead to the fundamentals. Yes, now that's how valuable trainers and coaches can be if they fully understood where they were in that wheel.

Well, Adam, you were kind of describing a client that gets shiny object syndrome. Imagine being the client and your trainer gets shiny object syndrome. Like, like put yourself in the client's shoes. I know that happens a lot. No, I do. I think it happens in like in gyms a ton. Oh my God. Like you get someone, you get someone coming in and like one week they got their client on like a general strength routine. And then the next week that trainer is influenced by somebody that says hit is the best. And then you literally look at three guys that did routine. And then the next week that trainer is influenced by somebody that says, hit is the best. And then you're looking at three guys that did that.

You're looking at three guys that did that probably for the first three or four years. We were bro. I watched like when I ran the studio in, uh, in Beverly Hills, I watched trainers do it every day. I remember one time specifically, I was reading a muscle and fitness magazine. And for whatever reason, I like, no, I just like, I just like saw like this workout and like, like stuck out in my head and I walk in the gym and I see this

trainer taking this client through the exact, and I'm like, and she was like, she was like a fitness model. I'm like, I know for a fact, you read that fucking magazine. I'm like, I know you're literally implementing some bullshit from a magazine. But it's like, you add layers to this when you incentivize the trainers and coaches in this. That's a whole nother conversation.

Yeah. Because that's, and I think that's part of what the problem is right now is that you, if you pay them well off of all these, these products, it's really easy to want to default to that. Well dude, like the, the last time I was here, like the last episode, we talked about scalability and, and I think that there's definitely a relative cap. I won't say an absolute ceiling, but there's a relative cap on scalability of coaching businesses and training businesses. And you're going to tell me that I can increase my average customer value by offering certain

supplements? Fucking right. Like, I mean, dude, there's, you know, Hormozi had gym lunch and then he had Prestige Labs. And so every gym owner that he put in there, he's like, well, you should sell these supplements. Here's a, and dude, they were paying out like fat commissions, like 40% commissions. And he's like, here you go, everything you sell, you're getting paid 40%.

You have no overhead on this, literally zero risk, just sell it. And it's like average customer value was going up every single day. Like, I mean, I'm not gonna say no trainer knew what was in those supplements, but I'm gonna say that a large majority did not do the research on the video.

24 hour fitness did it with Apex. Yeah. Apex did the same thing. Dot Fit, Apex, dude, nobody gave a fuck. It was how much can you get paid? I'm gonna generalize, but I think I can generalize safely here. The best business model for a trainer or coach, uh, is to get your clients long-term sustainable forever results.

That's not a generalization. That's a fact. I think, I think, I think, I think, cause there's more that goes into it, right? But I think that's it. Like if you just, if you lead with that, then you'll be able to resist the temptation of the quick dollar because you'll know this actually, although I'll make fast money now, it's not going to temptation of the quick dollar because you'll know this actually although I'll make fast money now it's not gonna lead to long-term success for me. So I won't say you'll

resist the temptation the quick dollar you'll take the money when it's the right money to take and and I think that it's I think that's where a lot of coaches go wrong and you know we touched on this previously, like when I was here last time, it was like, not every dollar is the right dollar. I would probably argue we've all made that mistake in this business, where someone's willing to pay you and you take it, or you can sell a supplement to them and you take it, and it's like, like the overarching rule,

like the one thing we should all be chasing is, is this right for my client's results? And if the answer is yes, and it makes you more money, amazing. If the answer is no, and it makes you more money, then fucking say no. Yes, that's gotta be number one. It's funny, you were talking about all the different trends

in gyms. I remember when I started in the fitness industry, 1997, everybody kinda worked out, it was a lot of machines, everybody kind of worked out. It was a lot of machines, a lot of aerobics classes back then. And then all of a sudden, I want to say maybe in 2000 or 99, there was this like, at the time, functional workouts were like a thing. And I remember all of a sudden overnight.

Functional back then was like standing on a boat. Bro, hey, I remember looking around and all my, this time I trends at this time, all my trainers are doing traditional exercises except people are now standing on a boat. Yeah. Or on wobble discs. What tries to press downs on one foot on a diner disc. It got really out of hand. I remember looking at that. Okay, this is, uh, this isn't working. That is, that is what we would argue was the misapplication of something that was meant to be successful.

It's unfortunate because there's some application of that stuff and it's been bastardized so much that now we've like functional training in and of itself is fantastic. Training. I mean, like the human movement model, bending, twisting, lifting, carrying, squatting, like all great things that I think should be in, in programming. But you know, carrying, squatting, like all great things that I think should be in, in programming. But you know, again, weight loss aids that have merit that are safe, probably great in a lot of programs, but we're not going to tell every human on the earth that they should be doing

functional training, whatever the bastardization of that means today. And we're not going to tell every human on the earth, they should be on a weight loss drug. Like it's, it's always going to be situation specific. If you had to start over as a coach now, besides, you know, building your business, which is a whole nother conversation, but just in terms of how you coach people, which of these tools or how would you look at these tools? How would you start off and say, okay, I'm going to learn about this or I'm going to

start working with this or what were the first places you would go? I mean, I would learn the basics first. I think the next thing, I'm of the opinion that hormones are a big player in the game. Yeah. Most like, at NCI, like our whole premise is like, almost all change is predicated on stress and adaptation. And so when we look into the inability to adapt to stress, it's largely hormonal.

So I'd probably go there next. Then I would probably, and a lot of people are thinking like gut, and I'm like, ugh, I think gut's extremely popular right now, so it's not that much of a passion of mine. But that's probably when I would actually start looking more into the peptides. I think that it's an emerging science.

I think that there's a ton of safety that is going to start coming with it because of how emerging it is. And I think I would want to be on the cutting edge of something. Now, you're asking me, what would I research, not what would I use? And so what I would use would be different. What I would use would be the basics, then it would be the hormones. And I probably wouldn't use any of the stuff I was researching on the peptide side because

it largely has no merit. But hedging my bets against the future, I would want to be on the cutting edge of that because I think it would give me the opportunity to be an industry leader. Yeah, a hundred percent. That's exactly what I would do. I wish I could do, when I was a trainer, I wish I

had access to blood tests and able to refer people based off those things myself. I used to send them out to other people who would do them. And I learned how to read them from there, but I didn't have access to, you know, to those types of tests. So I wish I did. And hormones, I think is absolutely, I think in combination with exercise and diet and lifestyle, number one, oftentimes you don't need to work with

any hormone therapy if they do those things. But number two, if you do need to use hormones, it's a game changer. You mentioned the gut, which is interesting to me. I agree with you. When we first started the podcast, we started talking about gut health in our space, and everybody thought we were ridiculous.

Nobody was talking about gut health. Now the pendulum's swung so far that everybody thinks their gut health related issues are SIBO or CFO or why they can't lose weight. There's a, you mentioned stress. There's a huge, and I'm learning this more recently, there's a huge interplay between the nervous system and your gut health and you could treat yourself

with all the antimicrobials and herbs and elemental diets. You don't produce stress, you ain't going shit. Right, but if your central nervous system and you could treat yourself with all the antimicrobials and herbs and elemental diets. You ain't going to shit. Right. But if your central nervous system isn't working properly because of whatever stress or perception stress or whatever you want to call it, it ain't going to happen. Nothing's going to fix.

It's funny because if you actually dig in and you research what a lot of these functional nutrition programs are teaching, it's like, well, here's how to cure hormones. Here's how to cure gut health issues. Here's how to think. It's all stress reduction. It like at the end of the day, it's the same shit we've been saying. It's like eat a little more, sleep a little more, do a little less, do a little less intense shit. Like do some yoga, like, you know, get your mind right. Yeah. Get some sunlight. Like weird. It's like the same shit that would help you lose weight is actually fixing your

hormones and fixing your gut. It's like this magical thing. And you know, I mean they've, I guess I, I'm of the opinion that it's a lot of marketing hype right now. I don't think that it's actually what it claims that it is. No, I went through a period of time where I needed hormone replacement. And I'm extremely grateful that there were good endocrinologists,

and that they were able to advise me. But just like that, I ran into my fair share of shitty ones as well. And people at that time, it's like, oh, he's got low testosterone. Let's put him on, you know, less stress. Like, that might not have been the solution, you know? So I think that it's always, like, I don't know how else to say it.

And I think that it's probably the most overused and most cliche statement by successful coaches. It depends. It's context, right? Like, the two words at the top of your list as a coach should always be, it depends. It's context, right? The two words at the top of your list as a coach should always be at defense. You know, you staying on the topic of like coaches and trainers and you know, you get the opportunity to talk to hundreds of trainers at a time and you've spoken many, many conferences,

you speak online to coaching groups. And we talked, we did an episode earlier about how the space is changing. How, how is your conversation different today than it was just say like two, three, like when you open up, right? You open up, you normally tell everybody F off and you do that. So how like, I ask them why the fuck they're here. There's always an F word. There's always a fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, you, uh, like, do you have have an opening statement or a thing that is different today that you're trying to get across to these trainers? I'll be really honest.

I'm pretty much out of those rooms. And so that's a statement, though, because I'm not actively researching how the industry's evolving as quickly. I've brought in people that are the best at what they do. You know, we've got Andrew Gerritsen, who's now the president of NCI, and we've got Alan Aragon, who's the chief science officer. Those guys are in the literature every day.

And so my statement of you're not getting Jason Phillips at the front of the room is if you want to create results, like you need to be good. Those guys are better than me. Period. Like that's the statement. And so if you're there and you're in the room and like, just because my name or likeness might've sold you to be in the room, you shouldn't want me to be teaching that. Sure.

You should want to be learning from those two guys. Sure. From the people that teach you. Exactly. And I learned from them every fucking day and they're, they're amazing. Like they're, they're great humans, but they're so talented and they love it. And so it's like, I think that is the statement. And I think that anybody listening to this, it's like, you know, you got to

understand, like, why are you doing this? You know, I have, I get so much passion. I get so much joy out of seeing coaches reach their clients and facilitating change. And that's why I index more on the business side. Like it's just, that's what excites me these days. Right. It's not to say that I don't know the importance of it. I most certainly do, but I think there's just people better suited to do it. Well, I mean, that's so connected to what Sal had just said earlier about us being in the center as the coaches and directing our clients to all these other resources of brilliant people in

the space that can help your client out is no different. The difference is you're not helping fat loss clients right now. You're helping trainers and coaches build better businesses. And instead of trying to be the guy who thinks he knows everything about everything, you've outsourced that to people that are far smarter than any of us and you're helping them. It's the same model. So funny. It's such a great takeaway for trainers to understand that. And it is one of the things that we've been saying in this space since we started. I mean, I, and I remember it all the way back to the gym space.

It was the, the, the single thing that, uh, gave me an edge on all my other trainers was that I was willing to share and give and all the information that I was learning. And at that time, they were all more experienced, more education, they were more fit, they were all older, wiser, more, I mean, they had everything. But they stopped, right?

And so like, as you're saying that, I'm just picturing the people I used to work with in the gym and stopped, right? And so as you're saying that, I'm picturing the people I used to work with in the gym. And I was probably very similar to you. I was learning every day. And I might not have been reading textbooks, man. I was reading magazines, and I'm reading forums online, and I'm reading anything.

But I'm doing my diligence, and I'm researching why people are saying this. And dude, I'm soaking up absolutely everything. And so yeah, and I'm sharing it people are saying this and like, I'm soaking up absolutely everything. And so like, yeah, and I'm sharing it with everybody around me. Even the notion that I wasn't yet the smartest trainer there, people could see the passion, they could see the pursuit. And people want to be in that conversation.

They wanna be in the conversation of the pursuit of something big. Again, that you will become irreplaceable as a coach when you're that for your clients. The clients that have that relationship with you, it got to the point where, I'd have clients with me for 10 years, where they would ask me for a plumber or a mechanic,

like things outside of because they trusted me so much with the people I referred them to, but they were lifers as a result. And I think that if you take that approach, whenever something comes on the horizon, you need to learn it and know how to either apply it or argue against it. Don't just right away go, uh-uh,

because you're not doing anybody any good. That's the mic drop statement right there. When something comes along, you need to either understand how to apply it or how to refute it. And it's like, if you can do that, man, you're doing what you're supposed to be doing in this profession.

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Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a 5-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mindpump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mindpump. If you're in business you probably have a website but

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