Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2399: The Truth About Max Protein Absorption, the Ideal Way to Start a Fat Loss Journey, Ways to Release Stress & Tension from the Body & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: August 10, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: If you’ve plateaued here is something that can get you to progress again/that will build more muscle & strength. (1:55) The sourcing of the meat from Butcher Box. (12:35) Kids say the darndest things. (15:16) Navigating the emotional differences between men and women. (19:23) When to allow access to the internet for your children. (36:55) The seven types of friends everyone should have. (40:26) The AMAZING digestibility of Paleovalley’s bone broth protein powder. (52:53) Why all men need a few good nicknames. (54:05) Shout out to Ann Svogun! (58:08) #ListenerLive question #1 – What are your thoughts on protein sources specifically supplements to ensure maximum absorption when tracking your macro goals? (59:09) #ListenerLive question #2 – Can you help me get to the root cause of why my left hamstring is causing me so much pain? (1:08:11) #ListenerLive question #3 – Any advice for a 44-year-old, mother of 3, on where to start if I want to gain muscle? How long do I stay in a bulk and when do you know when to cut? (1:19:33) #ListenerLive question #4 – Any advice on how I can improve my sleep hygiene? (1:29:16) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Butcher Box for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer!  ** Choose from ground chicken, ground sirloin, or ground pork for free in every order for a year. Plus, get $20 off your first order. That's up to $236 in savings for the year! ** Visit Paleovalley for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Discount is now automatically applied at checkout 15% off your first order! ** August Promotion: MAPS Bands | MAPS 40+ 50% off! ** Code AUGUST50 at checkout ** Why Your Tempo Matters When You Workout! – Mind Pump TV Mind Pump #2347: Become a Better Husband, Wife, Father or Mother by Discovering Your Attachment Style With Adam Lane Smith 7 Types of Friends Everyone Needs Men's Social Circles are Shrinking  Visit State & Liberty for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Discount is now automatically applied at checkout 15% off your first order! ** 90/90 to Pigeon Pose Hip Stretch Progression - YouTube How To Foam Roll PROPERLY (AVOID THESE MISTAKES) | MIND PUMP MAPS Prime Pro Webinar Mind Pump #2382: The 5 Biggest Challenges With Cutting & Bulking Mind Pump #2287: Bodybuilding 101- How to Bulk and Cut Reverse Dieting: What Is It and Should YOU Try It?? | MIND PUMP Cabral Concept 2526: Use the 3-2-1 Formula for Best Sleep Results (TT) Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Joe DeFranco (@defrancosgym) Instagram Adam | Relationship Psychology (@attachmentadam) Instagram Ann Marie Svogun l Weight-Loss Coach (@annsvogun) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind there's only one place to go Mind pump with your hosts Sal DeStefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is mind pump today's episode We answered live callers questions people called in and we got to help them on air But this was after an intro portion. Today was 58 minutes long. In the intro we talk about current events and family life and we have a lot of fun. You can check the show notes and in the show notes there's timestamps that allow you to skip around your favorite part. Also if you want to be on an episode like this one, email us

at live at mindpumpmedia.com. This episode has some sponsors that are bringing you this episode. The first one is ButcherBox. ButcherBox delivers grass-fed meat, wild-caught fish, heritage pork, chicken that's free range and organic to your door. It's great company, great prices, and right now if you sign up through our link which is butcherbox.com forward slash mind pump you can choose from ground chicken, ground sirloin, ground pork for for free and every order for an entire year and an additional $20 off your first order so go check them out this episode is also brought to you by paleo valley in today's episode we

talked about their chocolate bone broth protein it tastes amazing it's literally the best tasting protein powder I've ever had it's also incredibly easy to digest it allows me to take a big serving of protein At once with no detrimental effects. I could digest it very easily Go check them out go to paleo Valley comm forward slash mind pump and you'll get a 15% off discount on that link We also have a sale this month maps bands is 50% off and maps 40 plus is also 50% off They're both half off. If you're interested go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code August 50 for that discount. All right,

here comes the show. For those of you that are fitness fanatics, those of you that have been working out for a while, if you've plateaued here's something that can get you to progress again. Here's something that'll build more muscle and strength. Take some of your lifts and do them faster. No, I'm not talking about sloppy form. I'm not talking about having bad technique. I'm talking about lifting explosively. If you do this properly, you'll activate more fast twitch muscle fibers and trigger extra muscle growth. It does require more technique, but this is something that advanced trainees can use to propel themselves to next level So try it out live fast so this

Power this reminds me of the similar tip or where I'm always trying to communicate that The the the best thing to change up in your program or the best thing to do is the thing that you wouldn't do right? So like I love that tip for like my So I love that tip for my slow tempo bodybuilder guys. They don't train explosive at all because they're not interested in athletic performance, therefore they tip into the, everything's like isometric, slow, squeeze, pause, and they do so much in that arena

that if all of a sudden you tell them to do a one-one-one tempo, their body responds. And the opposite is true. Get a guy who's like a power lifter or athletic trainer, athletic guy that trains, and he's always doing explosive type movements. And you go, hey, let's do a four, two, two tempo, and watch your results explode.

I'd say even more like Olympic lifter. There you go. Yeah, like power lifter, I'd probably say two do this, because you're going to have to require a lot less load so you can move fast Which they'd never do yes No, this has to be this has in fact proper and I'm talking about proper explosive lifting not fast reps about proper Explosive lifting is more rare than a for you know for second negative it's actually extremely right you never see it done properly because

or a four second negative. It's actually extremely rare. You never see it done properly because people, including myself for years, totally misunderstood what explosive lifting should look like. Explosive lifting is using a load that is submaximal. You're doing something for five reps that if you wanted to, you could probably do 10 or 12 reps. But the idea is to do those five as fast as possible,

as explosively as possible and then stopping well before you fatigue nobody does it this way everybody that tries this in traditional gyms except for people who understand Olympic lifting they end up just doing this to fatigue it's all about getting as many reps as possible yeah it needs to be done fast and explosively and it needs to be done before you get fatigued because you're training force, fast force, right? How quickly can I generate force?

And what you don't want is fatigue to set in because then the reps naturally slow down and now you're not training that anymore. Now you're training something completely different. So to give an example, if I could overhead press, let's say 135 pounds for 10 reps, let's say 10 reps was my max traditional overhead press, let's say 135 pounds for 10 reps, let's say 10 reps was my max traditional overhead press, but I wanna practice something very quickly,

I would take a barbell that maybe weighed 90 pounds, and I would explode it up in the air to the point where it could fly out of my hands if I wanted to, bring it down and maybe do five reps, put it down, wait a bit, and then try it again. Trying to move the bar as quickly as possible. This is what plyometrics or explosive lifting is supposed to be. Yeah. I mean, you probably haven't heard us bring up this type of a tip in a long time

because there's prerequisites involved. Yes, that's why I said advanced. Yeah. It's one of those things. But then you start thinking about longevity and you start thinking about the way that your body responds and moves and how essential it is that you still maintain the ability to move fast in order to avoid injury. And so to be able to incorporate that, once you build a good base of strength and stability and control, it's an essential element to make sure that you're also weaving into your program

Wasn't it our good friend DeFranco that yes, it was him that like we were talking made a great point Yeah, he made it He made a really good point on the show and it was something that we at all and I remember I think all of us Had been feeling Guilty especially Sal and I maybe Justin not so much because he's probably better about including that Where we had been neglecting that and then I had just recently had an experience where I told you I jumped out of my truck and I thought my knees exploded.

I was just like, something that I have done 100 times plus, and just not thinking, and I was like, oh my God, that felt really, really bad. And it's just, I had lost that skill. And because I consider myself fit, and I would like to consider myself like athletic, I had lost a skill that I had quit training. I was not training that way for a very long time.

And it's like, that's how it happens. Like we all think this happens like overnight, right? We're just like, oh, one day I woke up and just I had bad knees and I couldn't do this. I couldn't do that. It's like, no, it's like I neglected training my body that way for a period of time. And then it like made itself obvious when I jumped out of the truck.

But that was happening to me for the four years in a row of not doing any of that stuff. This is such a common weekend warrior occurrence. This is one of those, and usually it's the hamstring. And it's like a hamstring pull, or you move really fast. You just think you can get up and run and you haven't run for years. And it's just, it's a common weird thing. That's like, um, even if you're an athlete for a stint of time, it's like, well, I just feel like I can just get up and do exactly what I did like five years ago.

This kind of training does require a more skill and you need to have good technique. Cause if you can't lift something with good form, control, then forget about lifting it fast. That being said, there's a few different ways that you can activate in studies that have shown to activate the most muscle fibers. So when you're lifting or training, you're activating muscle fibers.

Those are the things that are contracting and shortening your muscles. And the idea is to activate as many as possible because then you're gonna elicit the most muscle growth. You're gonna get the best results. There's a few things that do this. Maximal isometric contractions where you're pushing against an immovable object.

So you're just pushing as hard as you can. The thing's not moving. Because it's not moving, your body recruits more muscle fiber more until it recruits as many as it possibly can. Another is just lifting with extreme maximal intensity which fries people and the other one is to move quickly. Moving quickly properly because the force that's being generated, because you're calling upon your body to explode with so much force, it activates more muscle fibers. It is extremely

more muscle fibers. It is extremely hypertrophy producing. In fact, if you look at some of the most muscular athletes in the world that really don't, they're not strength training athletes, look at sprinters. Oh yeah. Sprinters have, now part of that's genetics, but the other part of it is they're trying to move as quickly as possible in these short distances. They're essentially doing strength training when they're sprinting and their muscles, I mean, reflect this. So it's a great way to train. It's just nobody does it right

because people either go too heavy or they think they need to do as many reps as they possibly can. Yeah, they turn into endurance instead. And that's actually a waste of time. You might as well just be jumping in place. Wouldn't you also say that this is the science that supports PAP, right?

This is why you do this, right? And that's why, if you've ever done that before, it's really fascinating to actually, like I love like you share something really good like that and to highlight or so you could feel that difference. Man, go do a PAP a little session right before you go into a heavy squat or a pull-up or some of that. Go do a weight deadlift wise that you said,

50% intensity that you can lift so it's not like your max deadlift and try and rip it off the floor as fast as you possibly can for one rep. Do that like two or three times and then go over and do pull-ups and watch how easily you pull up and it's because you've woke up all those muscles. The lights go on everywhere when you do that. No, it's crazy. So I did it today. So just to give an example, I did some, it's they're not, it's not an upright row. It's almost like a clean, except I'm not cleaning the weight. So it's a high pole. Okay. So it's like an upright row,

but I'm doing a high pole. And if I was doing a heavy upright row, I could do 135 pounds and I could do, I don't know how many reps, if I was going real heavy, I don't know, eight, eight, maybe 10 reps. But instead what I did is I took 135 on the bar and I did four. But they were explosive. It was pop, as fast as I could with good form, bring it down, wait a second, do it again.

I could have done many more reps, but after four I felt like, okay, I'm gonna start to feel the fatigue. I'm not gonna be able to move the bars quickly. That's what it is. I'm not gonna be able to move the bars quickly as I did with the last rep. Now the intent's gone.

And that's it, so I put the bar down. What a good set feels like when you do this is the first rep is explosive, you should feel like you get faster and faster, and then it should feel like it stalls, and then you know you stop. That's typically what it feels like. And that's for most people around,

what would you say, Justin, three to five or six reps when that starts to kick in? Or even less. Or even less. If you get really good, so really good athletes, this is not me because I don't train this way often, really good athletes is just turn this on. They don't need to do three reps or two reps

to get that maximal. They just boom, turn it on right away. And as far as athleticism is concerned, this is the most athletic style of strength training that exists. If you ever watch an Olympic lifter do something else, they are remarkably, you ever watch Olympic lifters jump? It's like they're, you know, professionals at it.

It's like they're high jumpers, and they don't ever jump. They just jump. They're vertical jumps off the roof. Anything that requires explosive movement, they tend to be good at because they've trained that CNS for an extended period of time on how to light up at once and all those muscles to organize at once.

That's why they're so good at that. You know, though, this is a tip, though. So I like to go and teach someone 422 first because I think everybody neglects that. And when I'm trying to teach form and technique, and it doesn't matter what level you are, you will most likely benefit from this. I could have advanced lifters,

they've been lifting for 10 years, and I count their, I do their tempo, and I'm like, they've never done a true 422. So just by doing that with them, they see tremendous benefit. You could be a brand new lifter, you just got started, and you're also not doing that, and because it's less technical technical as something that's explosive,

and it's less dangerous, right? In fact, it allows me as a trainer to really highlight their form and technique, because they're having to go so slow in the negative. So this is kind of where I go first. And then I blow their mind with the results that they see from that, and we squeeze all we can out of that for a couple months.

And then I transition them into something like what you're saying now, because now they've learned how to control the weight, they squeezed the benefits of that. Then we go to the other end of the spectrum and do something explosive, and then they see those great results also from that. So it's a great way to pair those together. 100%.

Anyways, I got a message, and I thought this would be good to share on the podcast. Somebody asked us about the sourcing of the meat that comes with one of our sponsors, ButcherBox. We talk about ButcherBox all the time, we've been with them for a long time. They mail, it's a company that mails meat to your door, essentially, you get a box of beef, chicken, fish,

all that stuff, and it's healthy, and they said, well, what's the sourcing? This person was really into, I wanna know the specifics. I pulled it up. You know why they're asking that? You know why they're asking that? Why? Because you know that in that world,

that world or that business, that's a very popular hustle. Oh yeah. Where they- It says grass fed, but then they finish with- They finish with grain. Yeah, or even the sourcing, where they're getting it from,

they're claiming that they're getting it from all these organic sources, and some of them are, some of them are not. Like subcontracting it somewhere else. Yes, and so that tends to be why, and I know there's a couple of those businesses that have gone under because of that. Well, so check this out.

First off, they use third party testing for welfare of their animals. So they're among the most humane companies they will only work with. But here's beef, it's 100% grass fed, grass finished, and it's certified humane with the global and also certified by the global animal partnership. So it's certified through humane and through the global animal partnership. Their pork is also certified through both, all

vegetarian-fed. By the way, none of them are given antibiotics or hormones. The chicken is free-range, it's organic, it's partnered, it's global animal partnership step three certified, no antibiotics, and then their seafood is all wild-caught, sustainably harvested. I mean their sourcing is incredible. Turkey, same thing, free-range, global animal project certified. Like they go out of their way to source the best. That's right. I feel like even chickens even really rare to find these days. I mean, at this point too, there was like a shortage, I know for a while there. So if they're still not like confining all of them and then giving them antibiotics and everything, that's a huge,

I mean, this is what makes them the leader in the space because that's been one of the biggest things that these companies have done is a lot of them start off as like these private, organic, grass-fed, grass-finished type of farms, then they outgrow their farm. And then they have to outsource. And then when they do that, they don't go out of their way to third-party test

or to do all these things to make sure that it stays within those where they just go, I was focused on scaling. And so there's been a few of those companies that have been taken down because of that. And so- Because they were caught being a little bit of a- Yes, yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, it's cool to know that we've partnered with, in my opinion, the best in the space, and they continue to grow and do well, you know? Dude, I got another story about my three-year-old. I keep coming with stories, but I got another one for you guys. What'd he do now? So-

He's on a- I'm gonna tear up. Bro, I'm a little worried. So he's so, like he's verbally very descriptive. He knows how to push buttons. He reads people's faces and then he'll say something even more absurd. And so we have to really pay attention to it,

like ignore him, act like it's no big deal. Otherwise he keeps going. But he's really good at it. And people who don't know this, he'll say stuff to them, be in conversation, they'll say something and they always look at me like, like what are you teaching your kid? I don't teach him any of that.

So my aunt came over last night and we're all having a great time and she's trying to win him over. She doesn't see him very often, but towards the halfway through, he's hanging out with her, they're playing, they're coloring, they're great. He's having conversations with her,

talking about all kinds of different things. And then she asked him she goes How did you how did you like the party the other day? We had all of our cousins over It's like oh was really fun. We were playing and she goes that everybody was everybody playing with your toys and goes yeah That's really hard and she goes. Did you play with your cousin Angelo Angelo is my nephew? It's my son my brother's son and my son and his son are buddies, but they're also three, and they're also, they also fight.

They fight and they play, and they fight and they play, and it's hilarious. So she's like, what about Angela? Do you play with Angela? She goes, oh yeah, we had a lot of fun, but he started taking my toys. She goes, oh he did? How does that make you feel?

And he goes, well, I wanna get a real gun and shoot him in the face. Holy shit. And my aunt looked at me like, what? And I'm like, listen, I don't say that. I don't know what he's saying. Oh my God, bro. But her expression and everything,

I'm like, oh my God, this kid. And I'm like inside, I'm like, I hope she knows that. We don't talk like that. What's so weird about that is that not only do you not talk about that, but then you guys also limit him to even tech and he's not in the team. No, nothing. He's not in day cares, he's not like where does he go?

He just knows how to get people to react. We have nerf guns and so we play with the nerf guns and we always say, you know, don't aim in the face. So maybe he got it from there. He also knows I have guns. He's seen me clean them. I have no idea. But he'll say some shit like that. Or he'll say something like, yeah, he'll say things all the time, like instead of saying I love you, I love your booty. I want to squeeze your booty. So people are like, what did he say?

I'm like, I don't know. Leave the kid. What are you saying, dude? You got your hands full, dude. I want to take him aside. I'm like, you can't say that. But then he'll say it. If I say that to him, then he's going to say it. Now he's like banking it like, ooh, I like that one. I like to punch him aside like you can't say that but then he'll say it if I say that to him then he's gonna see

Now he's like banking that like I like to punch so-and-so. I like to say okay. All right, buddy. Oh my god I mean, thank God he's home school cuz you know what that would be you every day Every day bro, you'd be picking him up from school Stories I mean like most of drawings I did growing up would have gotten a lot of parent conferences of them talking. Because I remember there was a kid at school that had that. He had drawn all these pictures of people exploding

and this and that. And they were just like, oh my god. They're freaking out. I'm like, are you serious? I was talking to my friend. It was his son that was doing that. I'm like, dude, I drew way worse than this when I was a little kid.

But you know, it's like, I don't know, dude. I don't have any advice. Then he also, he's also, he'll be really expressive with his emotions. Jessica bought him this emotion pillow. Have you guys seen these? Emotion pillow? It's called emotion pillow.

No, no. This is the one where you like squeeze it. No, no, no, no, no. It's got a circle on it, a diagram. And it's got the main emotions, but then those emotions connect. So it's like, no, no, no, no, no. It's got a circle on it, a diagram. And it's got the main emotions, but then those emotions connect. So it's like happy, but are you excited? Are you elated?

Are you whatever? So it's good to teach your kids, like how you feeling right now? You know, I'm feeling, are you angry? Are you frustrated? Are you, oh, I'm angry. Okay, are you this, this, that? And then so, but it teaches them all these different things.

So now he's like super expressive. So he's like, you know, mama, I was waiting for you, but then I got really sad and I felt really lonely and I was disappointed. You know, he'll say some stuff like this kind of thing. So he can articulate his emotions. And then afterwards, I mean, that's a good thing.

That's a good thing. Yeah. That's it. The first part of that's really good. Oh my God. No, dude. You know, talking about emotions, feelings, right? This is all human nature stuff, really interesting.

This kind of reminds me of what's been on my mind lately. I have two. I have a family member and I have a close friend that both have husbands that have recently lost their job. And they both have come to Katrina initially to ask for like her help or guidance or like what, you know, as a wife, you know, how do I support this? Have you ever gone through something like this with Adam and like what would I do? And she's like, you know, you really should talk to Adam about this because he has talked to me about that. And, you know, he shared moments in his life

and this was before we were together, where the only times that he's ever expressed like feeling depressed was, you know, during a time where he had to let go of his house and stuff in his early 20s. And, you know, I'm talking to her and it's really, it's like, you know, there's certain things that each sex has that's unique to them, right? Like, there's, no man will ever be able to understand and fully identify what it's like to carry a baby. I don't care how good a woman draws the picture for you or tries to explain it or whatever. You will never have understood what that connection truly, truly feels like, right?

Because it's unique to them. And I explain it like that when it comes to providing for a family. And that's not to say that there's not women that don't provide for their family and stuff like that. But there's something very much is like a male identity. Yeah, exactly. There's something innately in in men and me particular. And I've said, I'm sure my family member and my friend who I'm talking about. And it's it's hard to explain what that feels like when you lose that ability.

And I've and this is I've got two going through it right now I've had my best friend. I watched go through it. Also. I mean it was like the worst Depression he's ever been through and it's really interesting how that is right? like I don't know if you guys are familiar with either one experiencing that yourselves or Watching somebody else go through that but it I don't know, there's this thing, and I remember I felt that when I had a son, one of the, and I remember you guys and other people said this to me,

because I remember thinking like, oh man, I'm gonna have a kid, and I'm already a hard worker, and how am I gonna balance that? And everyone's like, don't worry, you'll see, you're gonna find a new gear, you're gonna find a new level of like, being able to, wanting to provide for your kid,

and everybody was right. It was like, all of a sudden that happens, and it's like, that's my main focus, is just I have to be able to provide for your kid. And everybody was right. It was like, all of a sudden that happens. And it's like, that's my main focus, is just I have to be able to provide for my family. And the thought of losing that or not being able to do that, what that can do for a man. And it also reminds me of the conversation

that Adam Lane Smith had with us on one of the things that men need is to have a goal that they go after and achieve and conquer. And in a situation like that, he's lost that, right? That like his goal is to provide for the family, do that. And so in those moments, how much he needs that, and then how unfortunate it is for the spouse who wants to try and help, right?

So I've got the family member talking to me and the wife talking to me and they're like, you know, and I try and say this and I try and do this and then it just blows up in my face and then we get in a fight and I feel so bad and like, I don't understand, like, I don't know. I can't speak to him, I can't do this to him, I can't do this for him.

Like, what do I do in this situation? Have you guys had that? Have you experienced that yourself or you had family go through that before? I think it's tough because a lot of men's identity is in that and I think both men and women understand this. I think you know when women are seeking a mate what the man does for work and his type of his ambition tends to be at the towards the top of criteria whereas men don't really look at that, right?

You ask a man, do you care what kind of car she drives or what kind of, usually no, I don't really care. So we know that it's a big deal and it's important. And I don't know if you can, I don't know if you can help him by telling him. You don't know if you can communicate anything to him other than weathering it together you know, together and supporting. Like, that's a tough one.

I don't know, I guess I could kind of identify with that on a level where it's like, you're not gonna say something to me in that situation that's gonna make it better. You know, other than, yeah, that might be, yeah. You know, okay, let me think. What would I wanna hear? Yeah, like. Well, I'll tell you what I said.

Like positive feedback. Well, what would you guys wanna hear if this happened to you, right? If, say, this happened to you, you lose. Yeah, like. Well, I'll tell you what I said. Like positive feedback. Well, what would you guys want to hear if this happened to you, right? If, say, this happened to you, you lose your job, whatever, you go home and you're struggling, like can't find work, what would you want to hear from your wife that would help you? It's actually more of this.

I know you got this. It's what I don't want to hear. Definitely, that's easy. That's a long one. That's, because I think that's the thing that you have to understand right now, is that at this time in my life going through something like that? it's one of the it's the closest to the deepest depression or fear or

anxiety anger frustration all the emotions I'm Battling and I'm wrestling with and it's 100% on front of top of mind all the time, right? So the thing that I is not going to help it is, you know, bombarding me with other things or reminding me of how much this is stressful or we're not doing- We're trying to do the work for them, like finding all these options for them and like- Making it like, so what I'm trying to figure out

in a moment like that is I'm trying to solve this equation. So I actually want peace at that to figure that out. I just want, because I know there's an issue, it's all I'm thinking about, and I don't want to be distracted with anything else. I want to try and solve this problem. So the biggest way that you can support me, and this is what I would tell Katrina, this is what I told my family member, so that as a spouse is just like, is to try your best to alleviate anything else going on in his life. So like, I don't know if, you know, he handles the bills or you handle the bills. I don't know if he normally is the one that goes out

and does the grocery shopping. I don't know who does what, but taking things off his plate, even though maybe he has more time now because he doesn't have a job, which I'm sure this is the dynamic that happens. It's like, hey, you got this free time now, you're not working, why don't you do this now too? Why don't you do that? And it's like, meanwhile, I'm sinking in this depression because I'm not able to provide for my family. And so actually being able to support me

in a time like that to help me solve this problem, because I need something as a goal to go conquer and figure out. I think, you know, I'm thinking about it, I'm trying to put myself in that situation. I think what I would want to hear is not a lot, but what would help me would be something along the lines of I got your back no matter what.

Yes. If I heard that, like as a husband. I trust you, I trust you, I believe in you. Let me, doesn't it give you the chills? You're struggling, you lost your job, you come home, and your wife hugs and kisses you. She's like, I got your back. If we're right or die. Are you kidding me? That's exactly what I said to both of them. I said, if you say anything to him, remind him how much you love him and that you believe in him. And that you got his back. Yeah. I wouldn't have married you if I didn't think you're the type of man that could figure this out.

I know you will. I know you will and I'm here. Anything you need me for, you tell me. And that's it. Like that's it and then I'll come to you if there's certain things that you can assist in that. But I have to be the one to go set the goal or the thing and then go conquer it. And it's like, it's such an interesting, weird. You know what it might, you just made me think of them,

this is gonna sound so whatever, but remember the movie 300? Yeah. Remember the scene where he sends her off, he sends off, she sends him off to war and she like. Well there's the other part, there's both parts. One part, the messenger comes, tells him, hey we're gonna come invade or whatever,

and he's like, you know, bow down to us, and you could tell the king is like, what do I do? And he looks over his wife, and his wife looks at him like, do it, and he just boots the guy in the freaking hole. Or the part where he goes off to war. And what did she say to him? She says, either come back with your shield or on your shield.

And you know, as a man, you hear your wife say something like, I got your back, I got your back. Like, what's right or die? Are you kidding me? I got five more gears now now because you just said that. I feel more powerful. And that's what Adam Lane Smith says. It's a hard one for, you know, when you're in a state of fear, control. You know, this is like a very hard one for women, I think, you know, to support in that regard. But that's

the best bet is for you to really just support in that fashion where you're just pumping them up. That's a tough one. Well, it is a tough one. That's why, I mean, I was talking to my family member and my close friend, the two wives that are going through this and I started with like, oh man, I feel for you because I know how difficult we can be in a situation like that.

And it's like all the things that you think to say and do probably aren't helping. And it's because it's a very unique situation that he's in right now. And the natural tendencies that you might have to try and help and support aren't necessarily what he probably wants right now. And that's what I-

Or even knows what he wants. Right, right, or exactly, or even know, which I also gave someone else that advice. I said, listen, and if he wants to take off for the day and go for a bike ride or a car drive, and he's not getting it, like, let him be. Like, you don't, yeah, if you married that man. He's solving problems right now.

Right, exactly. That's what's happening. That's right, I said, if you married that man and you believe you got a good man, and you don't, that's not changed right now, just we're going through a hard time. I'm glad you said that, because there's a difference between hardworking husband

that you know lost the job, then a degenerate, you know, loser. And that's true. There's a big difference between hardworking husband that you know lost the job, then a degenerate loser. Like there's a big difference between them. We're talking about two very smart, successful, good men, right? That these women- Yeah, I don't have a defense for that other one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's why I said, like, and that'll probably happen. There's gonna be a moment where he probably even feels overwhelmed himself and needs to just shut down for a minute, go for a drive, go for a ride, get away. And it's not him being lazy. It's not him not like like all he's probably thinking about is all of that, and so give that space, be patient with that, remind him that you believe in him,

that you trust him, that you love him, and he'll solve it, and that's the way he's gonna solve it. I love these kind of discussions, I love the dynamics between men and women because we generally are different, and it's important to understand each other because then, like the whole classic, your wife comes to you, she's telling you what's going on,

she doesn't want you to fix it. Most of the time they don't want an answer. They just want, usually they just want to think it out verbally and process it. So you just, listen, I'm terrible, I'm a lot better now than I used to be, but I was terrible at this forever where my wife would come to me and I'd just be like,

do this, do that, do this, do that. You'd be an active listener. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. I mean, that's a great example, another example that I use. It's just like that, you know, the wife does not want the husband to be like,

go do this, you know? She doesn't want you to solve the problem. She wants to be heard. Yeah, she's talking about her boss. She wants me to be heard, and she wants empathy. She wants empathy and understanding from you, and to be just a listener at that time. And then she'll figure it out.

Yeah, yeah, and that is so different from us guys because if I come to you guys from your problem, I don't want empathy and I don't wanna be heard. No, in fact. I want the answer. In fact. Or else I wouldn't come to you. How funny is that? If you came to me, Justin, and you were telling me you had a problem

and I just looked at you and said, wow, that sucks. That sucks, man. That must be hard. Yeah, that must be really hard. You'd be like, bro, I feel worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why did I tell you anything right now? Hey, you got nothing for me? You got nothing for me?

I've never said anything. I chose the wrong friends. I've never shared anything. Well, anyways. Yeah, yeah. I gotta go get some eat. And vice versa, right? You do that to your wife and you're like,

I've got, honey, just do this. Yeah. I don't want it. No. Yeah, it's not what I want to hear. It's like, wait a second, that's the answer. In fact, it happened this morning. I don't remember what she was talking about, but she was calling me and she was literally processing, it was the other morning, processing out loud

of what was happening. As she's talking to me, I'm trying to kind of figure out, okay, is it this, okay, so what you mean is this? And then by the end of it, she's like, no, I get it. I think I know what I'm feeling right now. Now old me would have been terrible, would have been terrible, I would have been like, well, just do this, well, just don't do that,

well, why don't you go here? She would have been like, okay, asshole, that's not what I want from you in this moment. I mean, I told both of them that they should listen to that. The Adam Lane Smith episode, I think, encompasses a lot of that. A lot's been lost in modern times with, because for a while there, we had to do the,

men and women are equal, and I get why we had to push that and fight for that, but what ended up getting lost was that we're different, and that one isn't better than the other, but we're different, and so we stopped understanding each other, because, and I know what they say, like look, here's like look, here's a deal a woman goes on a date with a man And I know I know what they say now

I like to split the bill No, you don't like you would like it if he's if he offered to pay the whole thing or open the door for you Most women would like that. That's a it's a nice gesture and it feels good There's a big difference with what people say and what they actually want totally and it's just's just, it's so funny to me because it's just like, just say what you really want. It's okay if it's not like politically the right thing or like the culture isn't like trying to push you in that direction. Like, yeah, but you don't like that. So we don't have to behave that way. I mean, I feel really, I feel bad for this generation. The kids that are teenagers, teenagers to like 20

something year old right now is a tough generation because of the messaging. We really fucked up. 30, 40 years ago we might have been way too much on one direction, but then we overcorrected and came the other direction. So now you have this generation of people that are just, and I have it, I have nieces and nephews in that age group

and they're just like, they're lost because they've been poisoned with this way of thinking that like, oh, that it's not that we're, you can't, it's not okay to say something like, a woman is very different than a man. We're very different, we just are. And we think differently, we operate differently, we each have different strengths and weaknesses,

and that's actually a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. It's the missing link that we don't have as men. Listen, listen. You know, it's like ridiculous. Would you wanna have a team that has to accomplish a goal and everybody be identical? Or would you wanna have a team where everybody's different

and their strengths and weaknesses fit perfectly together? That's right. So it's like the perfect, our strengths and weaknesses are designed to come together to be whole in one. To be this, to move forward and accomplish great things. If you have, if everything's the same then you're, something's lacking and the negatives get amplified and the positives get muted as a result of that. But definitely for all the spouses that have a man that is jobless right now, that has to be

one of the more challenging. Have you seen the divorce rates on when a man loses his job versus a woman, or when the wife is the breadwinner and the husband stays home and all that stuff, the divorce rates are higher. They're much higher, and I think there's a lot of reasons why, but I think part of it is it really messes with the psyche of the husband,

and probably even the wife as well. You know? Yeah, I mean, I watched it growing up. I know it was definitely a lot of my, like obviously overcorrection of like needing security and money and all those things like that came from, that was a consistent fight in our house, was that my stepfather was not able to provide

for the family and it was the root of so many fights. And you know, backing up a little bit, the world just lies. What that means is when you look at media, media is designed mostly to sell things to you, and so you get a lot of lies. So these, I mean every younger, every generation gets lied to, but the media is just so much more powerful today

than it used to. It was powerful when we were kids. It's so much more powerful today. And so the messaging that kids get is so, it's all lies. Like okay, I'll make a statement that everybody listening to this podcast will agree with. If you listen to the world when it comes to health, you're gonna be fat, sick, and unhealthy. I think that's obvious, right? The world gives you the wrong information. What you need to do, how active you should be, how you should eat. It's all terrible. Well, the world lies to you about almost everything and it's gonna tell men you're gonna find happiness in sleeping with a lot of

women and just making a lot of money and having kids in a family. Oh, that's a ball and chain and that ties you down. It's a burden and ladies, you're gonna find all the meaning and purpose of your life in a career. And oh yeah, you should sleep around too. It's very empowering and having kids, oh, that's so oppressive and terrible. It's a terrible lie.

The data doesn't even support, doesn't even come close to supporting any of that. It's terrible. So it's like one of the best things you can do is not follow the world, I think think and you'll probably end up what do you think? What do you think are the greatest consequences that we're gonna see of those lies? Depression anxiety. It's already there. We're already seeing it Depression anxiety are are higher than they've been I think that we've ever Recorded but especially among the youth. I told you guys about that graph, right?

In every culture that we've tested, across cultures for decades, there's a U-shaped graph with happiness where kids tend to be very happy until you get to middle age, then things get challenging, so happiness drops, that makes sense, right? Bills, mortgage, little kids take a lot of stress.

And then as you get older, the happiness starts to grow again. Now it starts low. Now kids are unhappy. Adolescents, teenagers, kids in their 20s are unhappy. And then as they get older, they start to get happier. And I think that's because they're being fed so many freaking lies, dude.

Anxiety and depression through the roof. We're placing all these adult problems on their plate when we should just be conscious of letting them be kids and really protecting that innocence and allowing them to build and develop and you know, shepherd them. I was having this conversation with my aunt yesterday. My aunt and uncle are great.

My uncle Mike and aunt Margaret are just really, really smart, good parents. I always have great conversations with them and we were talking about access to the internet. And I have a, there's a huge difference between my older kids and my younger kids in terms of how I'm gonna treat this. My older kids, especially my oldest,

unfettered access to the internet. He's now 19 and when he was growing up, I was young and working a lot and I just didn't pay attention. My younger ones are not gonna get access for a long time. And when they start getting access, they'll be be very controlled and the conversation essentially was like this. It was like the example I gave was I wouldn't give a kid or a teenager unfettered access to junk food either. I wouldn't have a house filled with candy and I wouldn't tell my kid you know you make the

choices you can because they don't have the ability to do that. Did you ever go to one of your friends' house and that was their MO? Yes. Yeah, I remember it like, what a big fail that was. Crazy. And that kid was always the one that was sick. Yeah. Just continuously was always coming down with something,

was always into the sports, but then had to stop because of some condition or something. But the thought was that if it's all out here and their friends come over, like, it'll be there and they'll have one or two and they'll just leave alone. No, we ate the whole bowl. No, you don't have the ability to discern. You're just not, it's not appropriate.

You're not there yet, right? Well, and okay. Adults have a tough time with it. We are, again, also understanding how to mold change to times because you could do that 50 years ago. 50 years ago you could have almost every type of food in the house and leave have unfit. What was the food? Exactly. Yeah. But we now have the science has come so far to engineer this food to be so hyper palatable and addictive that a child's child's brain just does not have the ability to do it.

They already don't have the ability, and then you add in the fact that it's been engineered so well to make you eat more. And the more you eat it, the more you crave it, and it's like this cycle in there. And so with the internet, it's like that as well. Like you give a kid who's 12 unfettered access to the internet, what's on the internet?

Everything. That's literally what's on the internet. Everything. And who's talking to your kid on the internet? Whoever wants to. Anybody that wants to communicate an idea, a good one or a bad one, a good narrative or a bad narrative, a real religion, a false religion or whatever, it's all there. And so your kid has adults, this is tough for adults, let alone children, so giving them that unfettered access, bad idea, bad idea. You know, to defend you a little bit

because of the time we grew up, I mean, granted, 20 years ago, it wasn't, again, it's like giving the analogy with the food thing. The internet had those things too, but you would also have to be, your mom couldn't be on the phone while you were also on there. The one computer everyone had

was probably in the living room. It took 15 minutes. Yeah, natural barriers. Dial-up took 10 minutes. Yeah, it took 15 minutes just to get onto a website. And so, most of us kids were just like, ah, forget this, this isn't worth it right now. Where now it's so easy.

Just imagine, just if you could put yourself back to, this is hard to do because as an adult, you tend to put yourself back in An age with your current wisdom But just try to remember how you were when you were 14 years old what you thought what you did what you whatever now Imagine you had an iPhone with the internet on it. No, it would have been a nightmare My brain would have melted. It would have been an absolute nightmare Like all the stuff you would read of course the pornography that whatever would have been an absolute nightmare. Like all the stuff you would read, of course the pornography, the whatever,

would have been crazy. So I'm dying to know, I'm guessing it's Justin, because Justin normally misses transitions like this. They were talking about seven types of friends that everyone should- That's me. Oh, how did you not transition in this conversation? Oh, I got it, great, I was going to. You dropped the gun. Sorry, Justin, I apologize.

I apologize. My topics are on point. Yeah, I apologize, Justin. I just thought that was you missing your transition. I'm like, hold me, dude. I'll give you that. Hold me. This feels like a really good place to transition to a topic I'm super curious about.

It was a pretty cool article. Yeah, let me hear it. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna pull it up for you. So it's the kinds of friends that everybody needs, and it broke them down. By archetype or what? Yeah, so a psychologist and friendship expert came up with these.

So there's one category, our workplace friends. And these are work friends, keep your spirits up, validate your complaints about your job, provide much needed predictability in your work lives. And they're showing studies show that the importance of having work bestie increased since the COVID-19 pandemic. So people are like, they notice like,

oh, I need friends at work. And that's a category of friends. Then you have your close friends. These are your biggest cheerleaders, trusted confidants, like their mutual respect and a sense of comfort and security. There's lifelong friends. These are people who've been with you for years.

Typically it's like a sibling or a cousin or someone you just grew up with. Then there's older friends. Having a friend that's 10 years or older tends to have more life experience, can provide broader perspectives and wisdom. Younger friends, younger friends are good because they'll give you an opportunity to mentor

and to teach, that tends to bring the best out of us when we have those kinds of friends then there's friends of convenience friends of convenience offer a sense of belonging or support during periods of adjustment or Or maybe it's a friend for a hobby So I meet this person in the gym and it helps motivated me to work out or this person at this in this church group And it helps me you know to attend you know those those meetings and stuff And then there's same life stage friends. So I'm a parent, they're a parent.

I'm a grandparent, they're grandparent. I thought these were great categories. They're missing a big one though, the imaginary frame. You probably had the best one. You know what the problem with that article is? And it's why it's kind of terrible. Is because none of you know anybody who has seven friends. And all the stats on that show that the average person

reports they only have one friend or none. Oh yeah, did you guys see that article on the average 30-year-old man? Like we're at the highest level of loneliness ever. That doesn't report they have even one friend? And then the next one is like one. So the fact that, hey, you can have even one friend. And then like the next one is like, so the fact, oh, hey, you can't have one friend, but here's the seven best you should go get.

Like Jesus, I'd just be happy with one. That's what most of these kids are saying. Well hold on, let me ask you guys this. Wow. Let's think of these categories. Okay, workplace friends. Obviously we've got workplace friends, right? Yeah.

All right, do I go off last? Justin's like, not me, I'm back. Total work friends. So we're work friends. Then there's close friends. All right, you I have a last name? Justin's like, not me. Total work friends. So work friends. Then there's close friends. All right, you guys cross into a couple of categories. I would also consider you guys as close friends and workplace friends.

Yeah, mentor. Lifelong friends. I have a cousin that I grew up with. You guys, I know you talk about lifelong. Justin, I don't think has any lifelong friends. I mean, just like friends I grew up with, I guess. You count, but not like, yeah, I'm not real close with cousins or siblings. So you've got lifelong friends? I mean my brother but yeah. Do you guys have an older friend? Well Doug does Doug count?

Yeah. Okay. I'm the young guy so most of my friends are older so that's an easy one. Younger friend? I don't know if I have a younger. I don't think I have a younger. You do? Of course I do. Come on, you always catch me mentoring and hanging out with 20 year old kids and just like that. I thought it was just because you wanted to feel younger. Yeah, rip their style. Maybe a little bit of that too, maybe a little bit of that too. Friends of convenience, I don't think I have any of those.

Same life stage friends, this would be good to find, it would be nice to find more parents with kids and stuff. I mean, we love you. There's a lot of crossover. There is for us. But I mean, that point I was making, I know you've read that study or the, it's crazy. It's like the average 30 year old man reports like no friends. That's why we're at a historic time of loneliness right now in a digital age of connected that people are reporting back that they have one or none of no friends.

I think it's a big one though, that last one you mentioned, the life stage friend. Huge. Because it's like, yeah, because as much as you want to maintain friendships with, like, say, your single buddy or the one that's, like, I don't know, doing something you did 10, 20 years ago, it just doesn't work.

It just doesn't work. And as much as you want to keep it going. And so yeah, I mean, I think that's one of them. I could think of a few now, like at life stage. That's kind of where it shifted for me. I have to consider that. I mean, I like the category. It's a fun article.

It's cute to talk about. But I think that the most important thing, at least for me in my life, it was, and I remember this was a big hack in like my mid-20s when this light bulb went off. And that's the, you're an average of the five people you spend the most time with. And actually really evaluating that.

Truly honestly, you're like, okay, if I were to break, if I were to pie chart my month by the people I'm spending with, who are they? And then looking at those five and going like, are the five of them living the life I want? And if I can't say that about all five of them or any of them, I definitely need to reevaluate this. And then I would teach this to kids

that were younger than me about how important this was. They'd be like, oh, how do you have that breakup? You don't have to have a breakup. What you do is you just insert one of those ones that need to be in that circle. And eventually, just like how we do with the diet, you don't need to eliminate, tell them to stop eating fast food,

just tell them to go get their protein intake. Just tell them to go make an effort to go hang out with those people that should be in your life. And naturally what will happen is time will fall apart on the ones that you shouldn't be with. And you just keep doing that until now you can look at that five and go like,

man, I admire all five of those people in my life and that's the type of circle you want. And then what happens, they eventually bring you all the way up to their level and then you're reevaluating again and going like, where am I spending my time with? And again, you're not having to have a breakup conversation and break up with one of the five, you're just seeking out another person to come in and that is like one of the fastest growth hacks in life.

No, it's a great one. You know, you mentioned how men are, are, are, don't have a lot of friends. You know, it's true. Have you looked at the data on, um, widowers versus widows? So widowers of husband, right? Man who is okay. It's terrible. Men do very poorly when they lose a wife in comparison. And it's because, because women do everything. Because it's because they get them out of the house. I watched two of my best friend's dads

he would say lost their wives and they're like I don't know how to turn on the list I don't know where to pay this bill. Where are my socks? They're like forget this it'd be easier if I was just dead I'm out. That's not what it says. that's true. I'm pretty sure that plays a little bit of a role. What's the recipe for ice? No, it's because men are terrible at making friends. So they stay lonely, they just stay lonely the whole time. But generally speaking, we are not. You think that's a sex trait

or like an individual trait like characteristic? That's gender. Really? Of course there's every, okay by the way. I know there's always, I know there's always acceptance. Yeah, let's cover everything we just said. When it comes down to the individual, everything can break down, right?

We're talking about general, but yeah, no, men are not nearly as social and we don't make friends nearly as easily. And the older we get, the worse it is. Men need like an outlet. They need something where we're all doing something. And then by proxy, it's like, oh, you're going to show up next week.

I'll see you there. Then it becomes a thing. Otherwise, it's like, oh, hey. You know what I mean? Now, do you want to get coffee? It's stupid. No, dude. I'm not going to do that.

Who does that? OK, so I do that stuff. Just this. Yeah, that's right. I do that stuff all the time. Yes, dude. Sorry, I'm talking the wrong sound here. Yes, guys do you, I do that stuff. I do that stuff. Yes. I'm sorry. I'm talking to the wrong guys. Well, yeah, I do. I absolutely do that stuff all the time. I literally just did that last week. Doug and I just did that. Yeah. But you're like talking business or something.

You know what I'm saying? That's how I, that's how I justify it. Right. As I justified as I justify it as evaluating my five, my five always. Right. And I'm open to having a coffee or having a lunch with almost anybody. If I find you interesting and there's something I can learn. Do you do evaluations on your friends? I bet you have a file. I don't.

Oh my God. I'm not that, bro, I'm not, come on, come on. I do up here, but not organized. You know what I'm saying? I'm not, I'd be worried. You got a Justin file, a Sal file, a Doug file. Oh fuck, I moved down two slots. What's going on?

You're not my Fab Five anymore? Dang. OK, so you think it's more nature or nurture? Do you think that? Oh. Because I think that. So it's cross-cultural, so it's probably nature. You think all, you think nature?

They've observed that in most cultures. Because I definitely think that. In terms of what's modeled, like, growing up. Well, so I think, you know, we're teasing me that I'm that guy who would do that, right? But I also think that I had to. We talked about how much I moved around and stuff like that. You had to adapt that way.

Yeah, so it forced, like, and so something that was uncomfortable, scary, and I didn't like as a kid became something that I had to adapt, figure out, and then later on in life became a strength of mine that I've learned to lean into as I've gotten older. So I don't necessarily think that it was like innate in me that I like to do that. Well, it's the same reason why for me I have to have something, right? I always had like a sport or I had an activity or had a hobby, you know, and then I created a group of friends around that, you know, and so it's like, yeah, I think it starts early like that, I would imagine. Nothing, nothing too for guys.

And this guy was in his room reading ancyclopedia so it makes sense. How did you make it out? That makes sense why you would have a hard time. I had a big family actually. And then you had that. You have a built-in friend base. It was already in there. You will love doing things by yourself so it's like you didn't have to go do that. I bet if you were in my situation it would have been a totally different. Yeah yeah yeah I mean I can go out and talk to people and whatever that's not a problem you guys know me. Right right. But yeah I grew up with such a big close family. I had my cousins and so I never really,

if I was in school and I didn't go out and have to go out of my way, because like whatever, after school I'm gonna go hang out with my cousin. So, it doesn't matter. Right, that's why I think a lot of it is more nurture than you realize. I think sure it's- Oh, it's a lot of nurture, of course.

But there's a nature component because you look across- Oh yeah, I'm not denying that. I'm not denying that. But I definitely think there's a lot of it like that. Okay, I believe it's a skill. I believe you can develop this. I think if you really care... And you're at an age now where you don't give a shit. You're like, I don't care. That's the biggest reason too. Yes. You don't give a shit. Because you're just... You're set in your ways and you're like, you know, I've entertained this before. I'm not interested. I know, I know how talented both of you are. I know how capable both of you are.

It's more of a, I don't give a shit. I'm not going to, because if you had to, Stubborn old guys. You are. We're there. You would, you would figure it out. You would do it. We cross that path.

But you're like, eh, whatever. I've got my, I've got my four friends that cross, cross off six of the seven boxes. I've got my family. Kids that do that. Like like what do I need? Why do I need seven, I got three, dude, why? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm all right.

A lot of bonding happens too with men through struggle and challenge. Some of the closest friends you'll make, is it true? Yeah, but that's- Or ones that you went through? Yeah, but I'll tell you something though, I had a lot of those, a lot of those were the unhealthy ones because, and the hard to break because you are attracted.

You feel loyal? Remember the drama lust thing that I talked about. You feel loyal? It's like, yeah, there's a drama, there's like you have this. What, hold on. Drama lust, remember when I said that to you before? Yeah, that was when you were dating. It still works with men, it's like you're attracted

to the drama, you know, subconsciously, you don't even realize it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, I, my- Not lustful though. No, not like, oh, I mean, you're lusting for the drama, not the person, right? I don't know, did you hear that Justin, what he said? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I even realize it. Like, you know, I mean, I, my, not lustful though. No, not like, oh, I mean, you're, you're lusting for the drama, not the person. I don't know, did you hear that Justin what he said? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did hear it.

It doesn't mean, I was trying to see where this was going. It doesn't mean to lust, neither example means lusting for the person, it means lusting for the drama. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're attracted, I know what you mean.

You're attracted to the drama and it's a, it's actually a bad thing and you have, and you justify it because you went through that stuff with this person in your teenage years and you have loyalty to them and you think that's a good, but the loyalty, you think it because you went through that stuff with this person in your teenage years and you have loyalty to them and you think that's a good attribute. But the loyalty doesn't go away.

I bet you have friends from when you were a kid that you went through shit with. You probably don't talk to anymore. That's right. But if something came up. You pick right back up. Something happened, you're there now. Yeah, I consider them family.

I have quite a few friends like that. And this is what I mean by the, you don't have to break up or cut them off. You just, I don't got time for them Yeah Because I'm spending so much time with the other people that are bringing me up or that are teaching me or that are stretching me To grow and be a better speaking of stretching. Did you have you tried out? Have you tried pushing the grams of protein from the paleo value yet?

The most that I've done is three scoops, which is how much is that? I haven't gone beyond the key. I totally 40, I think. Can you do more than that with that? Dude, it's so easy to digest, right? So one of the challenges with protein and protein intake is, by the way, you can take as much protein as you want, your body will assimilate it. The limiting factor is your digestion. Is this the whey protein or the collagen?

No, no, this is the bone broth. This is the bone broth. The chocolate one, the donut, the one that tastes like chocolate dough. Oh yeah, I do like that. Which does sit on my stomach. Bro, I will throw 80 grams in a shake. And no problem.

It's like six scoops? No problem. No problem. I could digest it like nothing. Bro, that- Did you put anything else in it? No, water. If you had a shaker cup, that means like,

this much is water and then the rest is like powder, dude. It's like you're chewing, you have to be chewing chocolate. No, no, it mixes all right. It mixes all right. It does mix good because it's thin. But you can, I can digest it, no problem. I have a push beyond that. I'll try.

You can make a massive, you could put a lot of protein with the bone broth and it's so non-reactive. I actually need to right now because my calories are low and I know I'm missing my protein intake and so I have it, I gotta get back on doing that. You're missing everything, you're missing pretty, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm low right now. How's your running, how's the running going? I'm missing my protein intake, and so I gotta get back on doing that. You're missing pretty, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm low right now.

How's your running? How's the running? I'm not running. Huh? I thought you'd been running or something. No, I'm not running. I'm not running. I still want you to become,

get real serious about swimming, dude. Oh yeah, now's the time. I think that was like, a missed opportunity. I had an opportunity. Well, no, it was gonna be really bad. I do not need to be burning in a bunch of extra calories right now. I'm already low, dude, right now. If I do stuff like that, I will definitely dwindle.

I'll never forget that day, man. This is when you were untapped potential, dude. This is when you were a pro physique competitor. So you're big old ass, jumped in the pool, and booked, man. You were keeping up with those college swimmers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The two Arizona big ones. I did not expect that.

I didn't know what they were until afterwards. I can't fucking swim, yeah. The two Arizona swimmers. I did not expect that. I didn't know that they worked until afterwards. I can't fucking swim. Oh, I'm terrible. I, you know, I guess it's neat to tell stories like that, but it's actually really frustrating for me to know that. You missed your opportunity. Yeah, like. You could have been a bit better at listening.

I have, like, listen, like, that's cool and all that, I do that, but I have no skill at all. Like, I can't even do the flip turn very well. You're not even trained. That's all it would take, though. Yeah, I have no technique. You know, like, if you had the flip turn, you would have tied that guy. You know that, right?

I just, I like, it's just something that, and obviously what I know about body types, like I was built for that. I have this super tiny, narrow waist, super wide back, skinny legs, like it's just, and long and tall. Like it's Phelps ears. I got good ears, bro. I just met some good ears.

I told you I hit you back. You guys think you're something? You got nice fat seps bro. Are we gonna say fat arms for a while? Yeah, I'm just jealous now because I don't even feel my shirts out anymore. You always know that right? If my team's Justin, you know that Adam's feeling insecure about stuff like that. He's like, my whipping boy. He's like, it's fine. He gets insecure. Because I'm not a pussy, dude. I can handle it.

Hey, people have been listening for a long time. They know that. They're like, oh, Adam must be feeling insecure. He's picking on Justin again. I love it. That's my favorite. I love that. Hey, can I tell you, that's one of my secret ways to bond,

is making like shit talk. I bond very well over shit talk. Well, you've said that before that. You believe it's an evolutionary trade I think so, but it's just that we probably did that You if we're going to battle I gotta know if this guy can handle a little bit of crossfire if he can't handle a joke He's not gonna be able to handle a cry in the bunker Yeah, you'll be the guy rats me out when he's getting tortured for sure

You know if I know you I used to tell my staff to fight No, if I start like teasing you or making fun of whatever It means I like you. Oh, yeah. Oh, I don't I won't make no jokes I mean, I feel like that's that is like some Common knowledge you should know that like if you're in a room full of dudes and if you're not getting picked on you're probably The one that's not like yeah Yeah, you can't handle it. Yeah, I stay away from you. He's weak You say you had a friend nickname you guys give him a nickname was it one ball pat one ball Yeah, cuz you have one ball. He's got. Yeah, ooh, sorry. Didn't you say you had a friend nickname, you guys gave him a nickname, was it One Ball Pat?

One Ball Pat, yeah. Because he had one ball. He had testicular cancer. No, it's not. It's Pat, dude. That's great. No, I'm not proud of that. Yeah, but you know what, though?

If I had, if I lost the ball. He wore it like a badge, though, dude. I'm telling you, if that happened to me and you guys didn't call me that, I'd be. I would be disappointed, too. Yeah, I would be really hurt. I really would. Disappointed. Like, if something horrific happened to me, I'm telling you, this is true that would be really disappointed like if something horrific happened to me I'm telling you this is

true it's all recorded something horrific happened to me yes please make a nickname out of it same later on because I'll feel better about it right I'll feel worse if you otherwise it's awkward and uncomfortable yeah dude if I get like some had some terrible happens that's a good measure if you've never had like like a few good nicknames like you should question yourself you're probably not like yeah right people don't like you that much. There's been a bunch of people insecure. You guys must really like them.

Hey, check yourself. You guys love me so much. You guys talk shit to me all the time. We love Doug the Bull. That beak is real. All right, wrap this up. Come on. Wrap this up, beak face.

Let's do this. Oh, no. I don't have a beak. Peck your way through this. Let's do this. Where did that come from? Where did that come from? It sounds yellow, but hey, it's always as good as fat arms. Hey don't have a... Peck your way through this. Let's do this. Oh no. Where did that come from? It sounds hella funny.

Hey, it's always as good as fat arms. Hey, you're a jerk. Listen, hey, the other night... It's not always accurate. It fucking sticks. The other day I was looking in the mirror and trying to look sideways. Like, yeah.

Yeah. Just asking your wife. I did. Honey, do I? Come on, tell me. You can tell me, right? Oh, babe, was my face pointing? Like, what's going on?

I was just seeing your silhouette, dude. I can't, dude. I tried. This is't dude I try. Very angular. Alright, alright. Alright so the shout out really really good coach. Really good trainer. She's heading our coaches that have

gone through our course. She's now working with Mind Pump. We love her. She's written some content for us. Which by the way, some of the best content. She's only been with us for a few months and she's killing it. Exceptional. Her, you can follow her on Instagram, it's anssvogun, so A-N-N-S-V-O-G-U-N.

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Their stuff is all designed for guys who lift weights, guys who work out, guys who are athletic. Great looking clothes, they feel good, and they fit incredibly. Go check them out. Go to mpstateandliberty.com and you'll get an automatic discount on that link. All right, here comes the show.

Our first caller is Kevin from Canada. What's up, Kevin? What's happening? How you doing? What up? Hey guys, just crushed the workout, getting my day going. Excellent.

How can we help you? Get it. Okay, so recently I'm super active 51 year old. I do jujitsu strength training, uh, just started doing a little more hit with airdine bike and focusing on, um, calorie targets and macro targets. And trying to do so in a intermittent fasting window of about eight hours per day, and I would typically use shakes or, you know, protein bars or other supplements to try and get at least 200 grams of protein a day.

I recently heard or read that your body can't necessarily absorb protein from supplements as it efficiently, as it moves through your digestive tract. And I'd been listening to the show for a long time and I've actually never heard you guys bring that up. So fired off the question to you guys cause I thought you probably have some awareness around that topic. Yeah. Well, before I answer that, Kevin,

where'd you read that? I'd like to know where you read that. So it was a locker room discussion that I overheard and then I Googled it and I actually found a study, I don't know how credible the study was, but it spoke to the speed at which liquid, like a protein shake, actually moves through your digestive tract as well as your digestive tract's ability to absorb protein over the same amount of time. And that study indicated that you maybe get 10 to 15 grams of protein. So if you have a 50 gram shake, you're only really absorbing 10 to 15

grams because the liquid goes through your system that fast. No, no, no, that's not what the study. So what you looked at, um, so the reason why I want to know where you got that from is I thought you might've got it from an advertisement for a supplement. Um, so first to be just quick, total bullshit. It doesn't matter. But the study you read is talking about how quickly you absorb protein

within a particular time window. But all the protein you consume gets utilized. Your body uses it all. The limiting factor is your digestion. So you can eat as much protein as you want in a sitting so long as it doesn't cause digestive distress. Like obviously if you eat beyond what you can tolerate you're not gonna feel good. You might give yourself gastro issues or maybe even throw up. That would be that would mean that

you're not utilizing all the protein. But no this is total baloney. You take as much protein as you want. If you digest it fine, doesn't give you gastro distress. It doesn't matter. It literally doesn't matter. Guy your size, you could probably have 70 grams of protein and probably feel okay. Depending on how you feel.

What if that causes him to say, have the shits right afterwards every time he does 70 grams? Then you would do less. I know, but my point is that, is he, at that point, is he not absorbing all 70 grams. Then you would do less. I know, but my point is that, is he, at that point, is he not absorbing all 70 grams? Or is he still absorbing it, he's just not getting to

get all the maximum benefits of it? I mean, it depends on how bad the gastro distress is. However, because there's lots of obese people with diarrhea. But the main issue to focus on would be the gastro distress itself, the inflammation and the issues that that causes in your body. So even if you did absorb every gram of protein, but you're constantly giving yourself lots of inflammation.

And if your goal is to improve athletic performance and build muscle and all that stuff, well, you're shooting yourself in the foot. But there is no limit other than what you can tolerate and what feels good or okay for you. The other question I have for you is why are you eating in a time window? What's the goal behind that? I find it's just more efficient in my day and I do feel better when I go through a majority of my day fasted. Okay. That's fine.

Yeah, you're good. That's a good reason. Yeah. Could I just bring up the one thing that the study, whether the study is credible or not, it may be complete bullshit, but one thing they did measure was nitrogen levels in urine of the subjects and they found that higher nitrogen levels were found in those target or those individuals that took higher levels of protein. Yep that's

gonna happen throughout the day too. So a person who consumes more protein will potentially have more of that in their urine than somebody who consumes less protein. You're looking at you're measuring it for the whole day not just within that hour or whatever. So if you consume a big bolus of protein you'll have more in a shorter period of time. If you spread it out throughout the whole day, not just within that hour or whatever. So if you consume a big bolus of protein, you'll have more in a shorter period of time. If you spread it out throughout the whole day, then the amount is gonna be the same or very similar throughout the whole day when you add it up.

It's like the whole eating small meals versus eating large meals argument. There really is no benefit other than convenience and tolerance. Otherwise, yeah, it doesn't matter. And also, Kevin, from an evolutionary standpoint, this makes zero sense. We definitely, for most of human history, didn't hunt an animal and eat 20 grams of protein from it and then be like, I'll wait two more hours before. Wasn't there another study about that?

That you'd even utilize protein like longer than we even anticipated. Yeah, I mean, that recently just came out. But it all points to the fact that it's not, I used to say it's splitting hairs, but now I just say there's not, you're not even splitting hairs, it doesn't make any difference. Awesome.

Well, I knew I came to the source, thanks guys. Yeah, yeah, of course man. You got it man, thanks for calling in brother. Take care. Thanks guys. You got it man. Thanks for calling in brother. Take care That that that bro Science stuff still lingers, but the reason why it lingers is Not they are inaccurate when they communicate it that way. Yeah, that's the okay. The problem I have with it is not so much because there's some I definitely think that there is

Some value to you eating whole foods versus shakes and getting all your protein that way. And I've always had this issue where if I have a really high protein shake, let's say 70 to 90 grams of protein, I definitely, it messes up my digestion. I'm on the toilet normally right afterwards, and that can't possibly be as valuable as the steak that I had that was 70 grams of protein with the rice because that sits with me

perfectly. So there's got to be something happening. It might be the protein source because does that happen to you with the uh like the paleo valley uh so that's a good question because um I don't know if I've tested as high as 70 before and you and you might be right like it's the dairy right yeah because I can't do like for somebody who has a mild dairy intolerance like imagine eating 70 grams of dairy like whole food dairy yeah would that cause the same issue probably now I'm not gonna say that you know pre-digested you know protein powder is is equivalent to food I think food superior for a lot of different reasons and for probably reasons that we're not all sure to percent I mean we pre-digested protein powder is equivalent to food. I think food's superior for a lot of different reasons.

And for probably reasons that we're not all sure too. 100%. 100%. That's the part why I'm always cautious to tell someone this, because I don't want to green light somebody, go get all your protein at 100 gram shake. No.

If you think that's better. No. And I told this story before of when I was competing and I controlled a whole prep to another prep where one I allowed all the shakes and bars I wanted the other one was like pure whole foods and there was a clear difference in my results now it wasn't the difference of me not losing ten pounds of body fat the other one I had ten more it wasn't crazy it was splitting hair difference but it definitely was different you know it felt different it

also changed my my cravings and behaviors around food and stuff like that. So there's a whole host of it. Whole food's going to be the best across the board for reasons we know and those that we don't know. His question was about how much you absorb. And that's just a lot of marketing. In the bro science, bodybuilders saw value from dividing the protein up, but it wasn't because their body couldn't absorb it, it was because they're eating a lot of food and a lot of protein.

That's the real issue. Yeah, if you're eating 4,500 calories a day, try eating three meals to equal 4,500 calories versus eating six meals. Well, you remember that was always my argument when we first started the show, because I was in the middle of that, and we were obviously, that was one of the myths

that we came after, right? The whole idea that you need to break up these meals, and then I would always kind of counter the point that, yeah, but keep in mind, you have a guy like me who's trying to eat 4,500 calories and get 230 grams of protein, it's like, you try doing that in two meals. And try doing that in two meals

and not have digestive issues. Of course. You know, you try and eat 150 grams in one sitting, and very few people, yeah, very few people will not be on the toilet after that. Yeah, it's the difference between three 1500 calorie meals or six 750 calorie meals. That's why bodybuilders do it. It's not the absorption or the science behind it, whatever.

Now the average person typically is fine. Most people aren't able to consume or shouldn't consume 4500 calories. So this splitting person typically is fine. Most people don't, aren't able to consume or shouldn't consume 4,500 calories. So this, you know, splitting up meals is really about up to personal preference. Next caller is Tanya from Canada. Hi Tanya. Hi guys. How are you? Good. How can we help you? I'm very happy to be here. Forget about rock stars.

I'm talking to the mind pump guys. So I had a question for you today about mobility. I'm someone who like most people will hold like stress in their shoulders and their neck. For me, it's all in the hips. So forever, like I've always thought that I was tighter in the hips, but over a year ago, well, almost a year ago, I took on a new professional challenge and now I can see that my body is starting to talk even more loudly to me. So what was usually just, you know, tightness in my hips after coming back from a two-week holiday and, you know, coming back to my desk job, just from sitting, you know, my day-to-day job, I could feel that

it's not pain that I would feel, let's say, in my left butt cheek, but more like a numbing sensation and it radiates even like down to my hamstrings. So I know like I didn't expect to get with you guys on the call like so soon after sending my email. So I already went ahead on Monday. I bought a mind pop prime so that I could start with the mobility de-jails. But I just want to make sure beyond doing, you know, the stretching and the priming, I want to get to the root source of like, why is it about my left side of my body that seems to give me so much challenges.

That's good. And have you noticed it's connected to stress? Yeah, because sometimes like, let's say I'm having a stressful day. Sometimes I'll have to, like, I'll get in tune with my body and like, oh, why am I keeping myself like so tense, you know, in the hip area? So there's probably a physiological, like maybe I just have a tendency to be more stressed in that area, but I feel that it's aggravated by stress. What is the new sport or thing that you're doing? Tell me about what you started doing.

Okay. So because I knew that I was having a very stressful year, I've actually in the last, I would say like in the last two months decided to really like lower the intensity of my workouts. I'm currently on week two, phase two of maps 15 advanced. So I'm doing that with, um, with dumbbells at home. So I don't think that as far as like movement patterns, things like that, nothing new is happening physiologically that would create more, uh, more tension. Okay.

Oh, I thought I was so totally misunderstood you. I thought you were at the beginning. I thought you said that you started doing something new. Like you were doing like a, Oh no, like no over a year, like career wise, like my stress bucket in the last year has been very like getting, uh, getting fuller, uh, by every month, you know? So I'm pretty sure what you're feeling is a nerve pain, not muscle pain caused by tightness,

probably what's known as the piriformis muscle. So you can look up piriformis syndrome, and this muscle sits right on the sciatica nerve. And so when it's tight, the sciatica nerve. And so when it's tight, yeah, and so when it's tight, the sciatica nerve, you'll feel as numbness or burning or coldness typically goes down the leg. Pigeon pose is a really good stretch for that.

Even better. We've been- It's one of my favorites. Yes, one of the, even better would be to sit in a cross-legged position like this on a foam roller. And then lean- On a foam roller. And then lean, yes. And then you lean on the butt cheek. Uh, that, that's that you, that hurts.

And then you roll slowly down the foam. Oh, lacrosse balls. I did a YouTube video on this. I'm trying to remember what the title was. This week at work. That's what I've been trying to do. Like every, cause I know like you're all, you guys are always talking about like frequency over like intensity with mobility.

So I'll do like this figure four as I'm sitting at my desk, try and like stretch it up throughout the day. Yes. So that stretch right there, you sit on a foam roller like that, then lean on the side that's bothering you and roll up and down the foam roller until you feel it on the tight spot. And it'll be where the pair where the piriformis muscle is. You can look that up so you can see where it's at and then when you find that muscle sit on it and

Wait for it to dissipate. It's a very very fast remedy and you'll notice tension release Probably immediately and practicing it over time and then you want to mobilize it. That's right. That's right And then 90 90 and you know strength training will help There's probably a physiological muscle imbalance, but tightness, like you're describing, although now you have some physiological stuff going on, the root cause is typically emotional or psychological. So, you know, I don't, without getting into too much detail, you know, whenever we're tight due to stress, what your body's doing is it's putting you in what's known as a protective position.

And typically we want to protect our vital organs. What your body's doing is it's putting you in what's known as a protective position. And typically we want to protect our vital organs. So when somebody's very stressed, what you tend to see is closed off posture. Now if you feel tightness in your hips, your body feels for some reason that your hip area needs to be protected. Sometimes that's due to trauma, sometimes that's due to whatever, but for whatever reason, your body is protecting your pelvis area. Yeah, and probably all related also to the gut issues that might be popping up at the same time.

How we feel nervous, sometimes we'll feel it in our stomach and our digestion. Absolutely. All related. So what I'll recommend to you, and again, you don't have to go into detail, but if there are any events in your past that affected the pelvic area you would want to revisit that and also practice belly breathing so deep diaphragmatic breathing tends to help alleviate tension in the hip area and the fact that you have gut issues along with it tells me that yeah it's probably something like that but then

the roll foam roller pigeon strength training 90 90 90 90 rising left to right. I know my husband tells me I need to just you know, chill the f out but When you Easier said than done when you do the night when you do the 90 90s Do you do the progressions to it where you live try to lift your back heel up off the ground? Have you tried to do that? I haven't done it this week, but I had done a few times your, like your YouTube, the seminar on prime. And I think you were doing it this way in the video.

So I was, the times that I did practice it in the past, I would do it like that. So yeah, pay attention to the discrepancy between the left and right. I have a sneaky suspicion you're going to notice a big difference on one side or the other. A lot of times the root cause of this, you might have the stress, all those things are compounding, but it's normally weakness and instability in the hips. And normally it's going to be one side more than the other. And so that will kind of point you in the direction of where the culprit is, right? So you're going to get on one side and get your 90-90. And let's say the right leg, you can

lift the heel off the ground, say 12 inches. And then you're going to go to the left leg. And all of a sudden, it's like, you can barely get it off the ground, or not at all. Or there will be a major discrepancy. That'll normally point you in an area that that hip is weaker and unstable. And that's why it's kind of seizing up and tightening in that area.

Cause it's stress, just exaggerate. That's right. And points it out. Right. Here's an area of focus, but those, and all the left always seems to be where, like, even with like, I did the different zone tests last night, just to like, know where I stood that before talking to you guys and like, okay, zone wall, the zone one, like, or is it zone two like when you

have your shoulders up the wall like hold the position but I could feel like like my left shoulder was definitely screaming more than my my right one yeah so what you'll yeah so what you'll notice on the body too is like when you have like let's say which you could probably zigzag it backwards and figure out what hip it is without even doing that so the body will do this on the kinetic chain it'll go like if I have a left ankle it'll go to right knee then right knee go to left hip left hip We'll go to right low back right low back will go to upper left shoulder area. So kind of ping-pong like that, right?

So lateral. Mm-hmm So there's so you could probably follow it all the way down and those are the areas where you're gonna have issues all the way Down the body Quick question also with the foam rolling because I know that in prime you you always suggest the foam rolling at the way down the body. Quick question also with the foam rolling, because I know that in prime, you always suggest the foam rolling at the end of the workout. Now, if I have this crazy tightness, should it be something that I do before I do my actual workout?

Yes, yes. You could do it before. This is an exception. I would do it before and after, and I would also do it on off days or whenever you feel the tightness. Just have a little short foam roller and get in that figure four position

and press on the piriformis and hold that position till you feel a little bit of relief. Yeah anytime there's like tight restricted movement that's where we want to address that before so we want to be able to unlock it so you can work on the movement patterns to reestablish a better condition. That's the key though what he just said is the the working on afterwards right so they that's gonna give you temporary relief we're not solving anything though right so all we're doing is giving temporary relief to then go in to do the work. So the definite follow-up of the 1990s with the heel lift and stuff that you want to do that

after you do the foam roll. So don't just foam roll. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the beauty of map 15, right? Because the workouts takes like such a short time. Like I don't mind. Yeah, no, it's a great being that extra time. Yeah. This is a, this. Yeah, this is a great way, by the way, for the listeners to use Maps 15. I like this is when you have somebody who's got something going on, and it's to the place where it's causing lots of discomfort and issues, that becomes a priority if I'm a trainer.

I'm going to focus mostly on that. Hey, we'll still do some working out, and you're going to still be able to build muscle. But the focus is let's address this. Let's fix that. Let's work on that as your priority. And then we'll do one or two exercises after that every single day after your workout.

And that's a great way to use MATCH 15. Yeah, and get it worked out before I want, like let's say my situation changes and I want to crank back the intensity. I want to make sure that this is all behind me and taken care of. That's right. Awesome.

You know, we didn't give you anything. I'd love to give you Prime Pro also, because I think that will also benefit you since you're going down this rabbit hole of taking care of. That's right. You know, we didn't give you anything, but I'd love to give you Prime Pro also because I think that will also benefit you since you're going down this rabbit hole of taking care of. Oh, awesome. Yeah, yeah. So let us send you Prime Pro. Awesome. Thank you so much. It complements Prime really well. Oh, perfect. Thank you so much. It's very generous of you. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for calling in. Have a great day, guys. You got it. You know there's a lot of things that can cause movement pattern issues or imbalances, injury or repetitive movement, emotional distress can do this as well. That's always the elusive one. That's the one. Well I mean what you find because tension in the hips is not common from emotional stress or distress, but it is if you

were traumatized in that area. And, um, I've worked with people like this. I had this, I remember I had this young lady, this young lady, it was very similar. And I remember my, our body work specialist worked on her and she cried and revealed that she had been, um, assaulted at one point. And so what happens when she feels stress is for

this woman, this young lady, she would tighten up her pelvic area, including would tighten up her pelvic area including her hips and her diaphragm and even the way she walked would change and it would cause tightness and that would cause dysfunction. So you know if you're noticing tightness, because your body's trying to protect you, it's protecting you from something either weakness or fear many times. And then what's tough why it's so elusive is it's subconscious, right? She's not like actively going like,

oh, I need to tense up that area. No, no, no, it's automatic. Yeah, obviously. Our next caller is Dana from Ohio. Hi, Dana, how can we help you? Hi. How are you? I'm good, how are you?

I'm good. Hey, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today. I'm like, I don't even know what to say. How can we help you? So I am 44 years old. I'm a mama three and I own and operate a small business here in Ohio. I'm five foot seven and a half and 174 pounds.

I've pretty much struggled with my weight since I've been like 10 years old. It's always been a huge issue for me. So when I turned 40, I really wanted to kind of start taking care of myself for my kids and just longevity. In October, 2021, I got my first gym membership and I began lifting regularly four or five times a week. I've always wanted to build muscle, but I've always been focused on losing weight. And so all of that is just so confusing to me. I've heard you guys talk about like a lean bulk. And that that's interesting because I don't, maybe I think that's what I need to do. And I've heard you guys talk

about like getting stronger first and then doing the cut. So I guess I'm just not sure where to start. I want to build muscle,. I don't wanna gain a bunch of weight just because I'm already technically overweight. So do you guys have any advice on where I could start? How long do you stay in a bulk? And when do you know, like when to cut, I guess? Yeah, great question. Great question and would be a fun client to take.

Totally. This is a really cool place in your life to be and absolutely, you're on the right track of the question you're asking. That's exactly what we would do with you is we would reverse diet, we would, and build muscle. And I probably would just because you made the point about like, oh, I don't wanna put any weight on,

I'd probably not let you weigh yourself because I wouldn't want you to. I would say, oh, I don't wanna put any weight on. I'd probably not let you weigh yourself because I wouldn't want you to. I would say, yeah, our goal would be around increasing our caloric intake, hitting our protein intake consistently and building muscle and getting stronger. And I don't really care initially what the scale says. I wanna go off of how you feel and look.

And we're gonna check in with that every few weeks. And if we do it correctly, you will continue to improve that. You'll see strength go up. You'll see your body start to firm up. You'll feel tighter. You'll look better. Like, you'll start to see all those things. You'll see all kinds of positive things

happening to your body. Now, what will happen to somebody like you, if you do weigh yourself, is that could freak you out. Like, oh my god, three pounds went up. Yet, if you didn't even pay attention to that and you were objective and said, oh, you know what? Like, I look better, I feel better, and you didn't know what the scale said,

you would probably do good and stay the course, it a lot of times will screw people up when they first get started in this position because they don't want to go up and their ultimate goal is to lose weight, and then they see that fluctuating even though they're doing a great job. Are you running any of our MAPS programs currently? I just got Muscle Mommy. Love it. Perfect. Do you know how many calories

that you're eating a day or what your macros look like? Yeah I'm at about like 1,500 right now a day. Okay. Yeah, so for sure, for sure reverse diet you. Because here's the conundrum, Dana, is that at 1500 calories, if you wanted to lose weight from here, you would have to go down from 1500 calories. And then you'd be in an unsustainable place, right? Because where are you going to go from there? A thousand calories? And then what happens when you hit your goal like oh now I'm stuck you know at a thousand calories so what a reverse diet attempts to do and oftentimes successfully does is it speeds up your metabolism so the other question you had

is how do I know when to cut when we can get your calories to a place to where you can go down from and be sustainable. So if we could, let's say we maintain your body weight roughly where you're at but with more muscle, because what will happen is you'll probably stay right around the same body weight if you were to weigh yourself, although I agree with Adam, I don't think you should. But you would build some muscle, probably lose a little bit of body fat, but your metabolism would start to really boost and speed up. And then when we got you eating 23, 24, 2500 calories without really gaining any weight then we're like cool let's cut from here now you

can go from 2500 calories down to 1800 calories and you get lean and then your maintenance is around 2000 calories in other words at the end of this if you do this right you could be in a place where you're eating more than you are now, but lean. Yeah, with the body you want. That's right. And this is, yeah, you have a place, with your height, you could easily get up to 2,500 to 3,000. That sounds crazy, probably.

Yeah, I do it all the time. Eating 2,500 to 3,000, but this is why I said right away, I was like, oh, this would be a fun client, because you broke down your height where you are experience-wise. I'm like, I would blow your mind. I would right away, I was like, oh, this would be a fun client. Because you broke down your height where you are experience-wise. I'm like, I would blow your mind. I would literally take you on this journey. And when we were done in six to eight months,

you'd be like, I can't believe this, Adam. I'm eating double, three times the food I ever had, and I'm leaner than I've ever been. That is our goal. Our goal is can we slowly increase calories over time, and I don't wanna see much movement quite on the scale yet. That'll come. We'll get to the point where you decide that you wanna,

but right now, it's like get strong in the gym. Probably one of the biggest hurdles, aside from the scale one I said, will be consistently hitting your protein intake. So my clients like you in your position, when we're doing this, the two biggest hurdles, one, getting in their own head with the weight

and scale thing, so that's why we throw that shit out. Two, is tracking and consistently hitting protein day in and day out. If you know you're gonna be good following the program, you've got the program laid out for you, so you don't gotta worry about that. Just follow as it's laid out, and consistently don't miss that protein intake.

Just do that. And we're gonna just bump your calories a little bit, so if you're eating 1,500 right now, I'd probably start you at like 1800 and then we would hang there for a couple weeks. What I should see or hear from you is I'm getting stronger and I'm getting hungrier. And that's my first sign of like, oh, this is a good sign. You're getting hungry, you're getting stronger. Let's go ahead and bump another 200 calories up. And we're gonna play that game, you know, every two to three weeks, slowly increasing that and trying to get strong in the gym

and then just watch what happens and then be patient, but consistent and be consistent with the protein intake. Are you gonna be working with a coach at all to help you with the nutrition aspect? No. Okay, if you can, that would be a good idea. Let's put it in the forum. Yeah, but at the very least we'll put you in our forum.

But it would be good to work with a coach who understands reverse dieting that can kind of walk a good idea. Let's put it in the forum. Yeah but at the very least we'll put you in our forum but I would be good to work with a coach who understands reverse dieting that can kind of walk you through this. If you don't the simple not not quite as specific or you know maybe not even as quite as effective but easy way to do it on your own would be just to hit your protein targets and someone like you I would have you hit 130 grams minimum a day, minimum. And the way you would do it is breakfast, lunch, and dinner, you hit your 45 grams of protein first. 45, eat that first, and then if you're hungry

and you want more of whatever else, go for it. But hit the protein first. That'll take care of a lot of this. And then get strong in the gym. That's the only thing I want you to pay attention to is how strong am I getting in the gym. If you're getting stronger your metabolism is speeding up. They're both connected and Muscle Mommy is a perfect program for that. And I would love, since we're gonna put you in the forum for free, I'd love for you to,

if you don't get a personal trainer especially, okay, even if you do I'd still like to hear from you, but if you if you don't get a trainer I definitely would love to hear an update from you at least once a month. Just check in with us on the forum. Let us know what you're feeling, what you notice, where your calories are currently at, and allow us to help guide you through that process. Because again, the two biggest things, getting in your own head

and getting in your own way, consistently hitting protein intake. So let's make that our first real goal here and then we'll go from there. But I feel really confident that where we can get you in the next six months is gonna blow your mind as far as eating and how you feel and how you look. Just watch.

Awesome, I love it. Yes. Yeah, perfect. Super exciting. We'll send that over. I'll have Doug send you access to get in there. Get in there and say hi. And then, and you know, we have our head trainers in there, Kyle too. So if you end up wanting to do like, he does online coaching, if he has some availability, you can reach out to him

and see if he's got availability. If not, then like I said, we'll do our best to help you along the way. All right. Thank you so much. All right. You got it. Thank you. to help you along the way. All right, thank you so much. All right. Yeah, you got it, thank you. I mean, it's common, very common. I love a client like this. I love a client like this who this is relatively new

to the journey, you know, she's got a lot of height, so I got a lot of weight to work with as far as muscle we can put on that body. Struggled with weight for a long time. Yes. She's gotten her metabolism to slow down through probably years of on-off dieting. She'll respond great and it'll blow her mind.

I love it, because at the end of it, they're always like, I can't even believe this is happening. That's why you gotta throw the scale away though, because that'll be the kryptonite of this journey right here, is freaking out because you don't wanna see that weight go up any more than what you're currently at, and you're doing a great job. Yet you see that and you go, oh God,

and you reverse course back to your 1500 calories. And then you add cardio in there. And you're just like, oh God, no. Our next caller is Grail from Wisconsin. What's up, man? This is an update. Hey, what's up, buddy? How you doing, guys?

How you doing, man? Good, how can we help you? So I started off my journey. Like I feel like a lot of people have, I started off running anabolic, um, gung ho on calories. Um, really poor lifting, um, technique, you know, not, not really putting much technique in it. And, uh, I got fat. I had really fat and, uh, my sleeping was poor and my body was beat up and I was over training because of course like everybody I started the three day a week you know and then kind of fell

back into like ego lifting so you know I had to make a change because I was just being real it just wasn't working. I thought I knew how to work out. I thought I was doing the right stuff. out. I thought I was doing the right stuff. So I switched it up and I said all I'm going to do is I'm going to eat whole food. I'm going to run a cut, but I'm not going to really worry too much about the calories. I'll try to listen to you guys as much as possible. So I just cut out junk and I started shedding fast you know I think the first month I lost like 12 pounds which is you know a lot of water too, but um My my calories start getting down there you know and I'm not really realizing that I have because I work 10 hours a day Alright, I'm not realizing that I don't want to move no more

You know I'm trying to push it to like 1900 calories and I felt at the time when I emailed you guys I was like I was kind of freaking out. So I'm like I made such progress and I didn't know where to go But um, I had to make a clutch decision so I'm like I Have a binge eating problem. So What I I thought myself wanting to eat like a lot of sweets and a lot of likes hungry all the time So like I feel like I need a bulk. So I'm like this time I'm not gonna bulk heavy. I'm gonna start late I'm not on and

And switch up how I train You know, so I ran I ran a bulk. Um, I think in eight weeks. I put on ten pounds total um I The little test said like four pounds of muscle and the rest water you know in fact So that's about where I'm at and then I ran a cut again um but not a string cut I'm trying to lose weight as slow as possible I'm running anabolic again, but I'm only doing two days a week with all my triggers. And I try to do mobility too. I work really hard and I'm not really good at sleeping and I know there are stress factors along with dieting. So I'm really trying to scale it back in the gym and

just do stuff that's good for me. I'm worried about myself. You know, I listen to you guys about good for me. I'm worried about myself. You know, I listen to you guys about taking care of yourself instead of, you know, the aesthetic aspect. So that's about where I'm at. It was crazy. My first week I dropped almost like 10 pounds of water after I stopped eating my bulking because I was eating like 300, like 3,500 calories a day, which I understand what you guys say why it's hard about eating so much because it it really demolished my appetite which kind of got negative because I started not wanting fruit and stuff like I Wanted to start kind of cheat my way to 3,500 calories and that's why I was like, yeah I gotta you know when you're stuffing yourself, it's time to go the opposite direction. So now I'm trying to lose it slowly.

I'm, I'm sticking like the 24 to 27 range, not being real hard in myself. It's kind of slowly cutting into a healthy weight and I would like to walk again, but I would just like to get probably do a healthier weight. Okay. and I would like to walk again but I would just like to get probably do a healthier weight. Okay so Grail um we we can make this a lot easier than than you're making it right now. Yes yes. How tall are you? I am about 5'8". Five eight okay here's what I want you to do. Uh I want you to eat 180 grams of protein a day and I want you to stick to whole natural foods and you're done. Gotcha. You're done. Don't worry about anything else. But eat when you're hungry. That's it. Don't stop counting calories. Hit 180 protein, eat it first in

your meals. So eat it first. If you're still hungry, stick to whole foods and keep eating until you're satisfied. Now don't eat until you're stuffed. There's a difference. Eat until you're satisfied and then you're done. Stop counting calories. 180 grams of protein every day there's a difference. Eat until you're satisfied and then you're done. Stop counting calories. 180 grams of protein every day from whole natural foods. Eat it first. The rest, listen to your appetite. Whole natural foods.

Focus on getting strong. Follow MAPS Antibolic and you're golden. The other thing is your sleep, which we can talk about. Do you take a lot of caffeine? Do you drink alcohol? Is there anything that could be influencing or affecting your sleep? So I've had sleep problems my whole life.

Um, what I've done is to lower my caffeine intake, um, have a regular schedule, um, and trying to clean up my sleep hygiene. Unfortunately I work second shift. So I feel like my circadian rhythms kind of messed up because I just wait, my problem is I wake second shift. So I feel like my circadian rhythms kind of messed up. Cause I just wait. My problem is I wake up early. Um, so I started using maybe like melatonin. I was on medication, but I went off my medication. I'm trying to like do things the natural way. Um, my sleep, it, it's rough having like six hours a night. Yeah.

Like maybe five it wears on you so bad. And then my cravings go up really bad for food. Even my posture when I'm tired, my posture, everything. Yeah. So tired, you know, What you want? Were you on sleep medication? I started it, but it, it just made me black out. You know, Justin, when you said about drinking Nyquil and how it, you just black out, you get sleepy, you're not sleeping well. Yeah. I did say that. That's how I felt about that and how it you just blacked out you get sleep, but you know Yeah, I did say that's how I felt about that. Like it's blacking me out

But this shit's making me feel like crap. Yeah Yeah, so no, you don't want that. I need to find the quote. I need to find the core root problems of things Well, yeah, so eating I would sleep avoid so the most common offenders are caffeine alcohol I would avoid so the most common offenders are caffeine alcohol Those are the most common ones with your schedule with my ADHD. They add me on stimulant medication I've been on my whole life, which I just I went off that also Okay, so so what you want to do obviously what you want to do is prioritize the sleep and then get naps Whenever you can especially when you have the second shift, But with Maps Anabolic two days a week with trigger sessions you're probably gonna train appropriately. I don't think you wanna do any more than that.

Maybe even Maps 15. I know, I think. Maps 15 would be another option for you. Yeah, maybe Maps 15. We should explore that. When I balked, when I balked I ran Maps 15 Advanced with like a, I added some, I always gotta add some. I added shoulders in there

because I was trying to build my shoulders, you know. Don't add anything. Yeah, I don't want you to, yeah, don't add anything. Don't add anything. I'm awful with it. Don't add anything. I never feel like I'm doing enough. No, no, no, you're doing enough.

You're doing more than enough. And here's what I- Consistency is everything, bro. I actually want you to look at, kind of reframe the way you approach this too. Like, I don't want you to think anymore about cutting or bulking. Don't think like, I'm going to cut, I'm going to to get rid of that. It doesn't matter. It's, I'm eating to take care of myself and feed my nourish my body and take care and try and improve my sleep.

Like that's, that's like, that's our goal right now. You're going to get lean. You're going to build muscle. You're going to get stronger. Don't even think about it as like, oh, this is a cut. This is a bulk. No, it's just you're, you hit your protein intake. That's all we care about. Eat whole foods. That's all we care about right there with the nutrition and we are trying to optimize our sleep and so what that might look like some days is scaling back the intensity in the gym not really pushing it that hard. Some days and and just really focusing on getting a night routine taking care of your body that way. Don't think of these like swings of I'm cutting hard, I'm bulking hard, go back. It's just like just hit the protein intake, take care of your body and that's our first goal right now is to

solve that and what you're going to find is all the building the muscle, the leading out, it's going to start to come together. But not until we start to solve the sleep issue because that right there, you could have the best workout in the world and the best diet in the world and you're going to have a really hard time seeing the results that you want to see. It really drags on you. Oh yeah. Absolutely.

So tell me about your work schedule. Normal day and then when you work a second shift, what does it look like? Extreme stress and I walk for at least eight hours. I work 10 hour shifts but like these last couple weeks I did 50 hours, five, 10 hour shifts and I walk all day. That's why I haven't even touched cardio. I have even. What time do you start and what time do you stop?

Like when you go to work, start, what time does it stop? So my day, I wake up at about 11, I go to the gym, get ready, I start work at 3 p.m. and then I end at one. Okay. And that's most days? It's not horrible. That's most days? Yeah. Do you have blue light blocking glasses?

One more time. Do you have blue light gla blue light blocking glasses? Um, I don't but I've cut my screen down. I do I've been doing the three two one. Oh good So, you know you could do because they're pretty inexpensive on on Amazon to get the orange tinted ones is I would wear them at Midnight so the last hour of work you're wearing blue light blocking glasses and keep them on until you go to bed. That'll help get to sleep and then focus on being consistent when you go to bed, which I would go to bed right when I got home so that you have time to sleep. Yeah I do. Part of my problem is I'm diabetic and then I pee a lot. So if I go to bed and I wake up at 7 now it's morning you know maybe I there's light right away go there I have to have everything blacked

out because you go to the bathroom it's light you're up it's hard to go back and sleep I'm not having trouble falling asleep it's staying asleep long enough to like you know got it so it just sounds like my circadian rhythms off it is is. It's not too bad, but it isn't great, but it's not too bad. It's fixable. So what you would do is when you get up, so you have everything blacked out, if you need to look to see where you're going, put on the blue light blocking glasses before you go. Sit down when you pee. Or you can sit down when you pee if you don't. Yeah, but we won't tell anybody. We won't tell anybody about that. I refuse to do that. I just keep my eyes closed dog that's why I do like

like this man I'm feeling my way to the hallway I stay closed then to sit down I pee dog so why I don't need to sit down I listen the next day we everybody knows yeah that's all right that's all right but yeah I would get that's what I would do like if you wake up it's oh got to go pee, you have your blue light glasses next to you on the bed. Again, you can get them pretty inexpensive these days on Amazon. Put them on and then that'll minimize the effect that the light will have on you when you go to the bathroom.

And then go lay back down, do some belly breathing until you fall asleep. Girl, are you in our private forum yet? I am not. Okay I'm gonna have Doug hook you up with that so you're in there with us and because because we got it. Of course yeah yeah I got you we there's a we're throwing a bunch of different things at you and so I kind of want to just check in with me you know every few weeks or every month just check in on what you're doing and like let's just make some of these changes and adjust along the way because I know we're kind of throwing a bunch of things. Do this, do that, do this, do that.

Yeah, it's going to be a mental game for that change with the working out and the diving. That's all it's going to be is a mental game to stick to. It is. But once you start to feel it, within a few weeks, you'll feel it. And then you'll be very motivated. It sounds more natural.

It sounds naturally healthy, you know? Oh, yeah, bro. Your body's going to respond, too. If we can stick to that more simplistic plan, I mean, it sounds to me everything you're kind of shooting at us, it's just ping-ponging all over the place. Yeah. If we can just really laser you in, right,

and just get you focused on eating protein, and then restoring your body, doing this new workout program where you just do 15 minutes a day, and you just get enough so you get stimulus You know you allow yourself to fully recover. You know, we've worked on our sleep and that's really the the biggest factor again This is we have to figure this out totally with sleep Yeah, for sure We're gonna we're gonna throw you in there grail and then I want you to check check in with us

Okay, and take some of the advice. I also want you to don't be weighing yourself. That ain't doing us any good right now. I don't. I don't give a f— Okay. Good. I hold so much water. I hold so much water that it doesn't—it's pointless. It's just kind of defeating. Yeah, yeah. Okay, good, good. I don't— No, fuck the scale. Yeah, I don't care about the sky, the mirror, maybe, but that's even bad too.

Yeah, yeah. I don't want you to get hung up on that right now. Right now, like, goal one is like, we got to get this sleep solved. Totally. We got to solve this sleep issue. Yeah, my sleep, bro, to get hung up on that right now. Right now, like, go one is like, we've got to get this sleep solved. We've got to solve this. Yeah, my sleep, bro, because that, for sure, it drags on me. That's everything. What do you do for work where you walk that much? What are you doing?

Bro, so I run a Japanese printing press, and I make continuously folding, manifoldolding like forms for like hospitals But I got a rundown like a it's a long haul it's like a It's a ways and when it's running fast, you've got to run up and down it to ink water ratios watching shit stress my back be cramped cuz I'm so full stress. Cause everything's on me and I'm just training. Just like they throw you in there and I'm just starting for things that learn. It takes years to learn. So it's so high stress. Can you imagine running three days a week with no sleep?

And then I'll even run to and I'll go to work and I'm working. I was working five 12s at the time. Oh my God. I'm going to get you five 12s at the time. Oh Completely mad Those dress Well, you're I would not have guessed that yeah That's why I wanted to know so curious. I'm like, what the fuck is this guy doing? Uh, so we're gonna throw you in there stay in touch with us. Okay, the boys and I are in there

Just check in with us Let us know what you're doing how things are going and in touch with us. Okay, the boys and I are in there Just check in with us Let us know what you're doing how things are going and we can make little micro adjustments around the way But okay, just take that initial advice and then we'll go from there. All right, bro Yeah, a Justin before I go. Hey, I was watching your episode where you had to explain about the mosh page. Yeah By yourself, bro Yeah, and I thought you were by yourself bro, so I wore the head banger hat. Yeah, that's my boy. Fuck that. Alright y'all have a good day man. Thanks for having me on. Alright, take it easy bro.

Alright bro. What's the cross thing you do? It's hardcore dude. Yeah, that's the hardcore community. It is. You can fit in the most. Explain that job, Doug. I have no idea. Why, just because it's Japanese?

A Japanese 3-press? I have no idea what that even is. Yeah. Running. It sounds like he's running paper up and down the hall. And he says, continuous folds. So I have no idea. So the machine probably going, ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch.

And he's got to go somewhere to fill it up or something. Yeah. I have no idea. I have to look it up. Yeah, you got to figure this out. This is so interesting to me It sounds like it sounds medieval. It does Like what do they got you doing bro? So that's hell of a school. You know we have computers now, right?

He's in a machine running so that it works He's cutting trees making paper, you know, I mean is this not a I, this has been kind of a conversation we've been having a lot lately. It feels like you're talking about really hammering home the sleep thing, right? And that's just, this has to be, and he's like this whole extreme, like I'm cutting, I'm bulking, I'm doing this. No, no, he's overthinking it. It's like, yeah, way overthinking it.

Way overthinking it. Especially for someone who's got that much stress in their job. Like that in itself is like, we just got to. We have to calm everything down around. Yeah. Yeah. We just got to solve. Focused energy.

But the shift isn't horrific. I mean, you can work with that. Yep. Yeah, if you can get him tired and getting to pass out by 1 o'clock or so, you know what I'm saying? Totally. And get a decent night of sleep. He'll be OK.

As long as his room's blacked out, the whole day, he'll be fine. Yeah, which by the way, if he's listening to this like, Cut the metal out. You can go down to Home Depot, and Home Depot makes these blackout stuff that you put on the windows. Super cheap, super easy, and super effective.

Or you can use aluminum foil. Well, I mean, that's a little less ghetto, but maybe a few cents cheaper. That's what we did for a year. That's what my wife did for my kid. If you want to look like you're cooking meth inside your house that's a great idea. That was, that was, that was, Jessica did that when Aurelius was little. I could come home, I looked you know the front of the house, I could see the front of the house. Oh my god, you have like a meth house bro. I'd be like honey you can't do that. We got a baby. Yeah, we have neighbors. Yeah. And we walked out looking all like messed up. Anyway, look, if you love mind pumping, I know you do go to mind pump free.com. We have free guides for all kinds of fitness goals. In fact,

we have one for fat loss. Go check it out. You can also find us on Instagram. Justin is that mind pump. Justin, I'm at mind pump to Stefano and Adam is that mind pump. Adam. Thank you for listening to mind pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super bundle at mind pump media.com. The RGB super bundle includes maps, anabolic maps, performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam,

and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a 5-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is MindPump!