Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2411: How to Know You are Overtrained & Underfed, Why You May Not Feel Low Testosterone, How to Properly Cut & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: August 28, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: If you want your skin to look younger and tighter, do these three things. (2:58) The #1 cause of death for pregnant women. (12:23) The craziest abduction story ever. (17:40) Angels or demons? (20:28) Sal’s opens up on his ongoing spiritual journey. (22:06) Humans have age spurts. (28:20) Going through old modeling photos. (31:45) Feeling a little too comfortable? (34:40) Mind Pump Recommends Spacey Unmasked on MAX. (37:54) Comparing protein cookies macros. (45:43) Another tale of Sal’s unbreakable gut. (47:23) Cereal nostalgia. (50:06) Shilajit, the CBD of 2024. (54:18) Timing the market perfectly. (56:02) Shout out to @icreatemillionaires on Instagram! (1:00:10) #ListenerLive question #1 – What would be the best approach to cutting? Does it change depending on what I’ve been doing? (1:04:38) #ListenerLive question #2 – How do you recommend I go about coordinating my nutrition for bulking and cutting to maximize my gains in muscle and strength? (1:16:15) #ListenerLive question #3 –Do you have any recommendations on the proper course of action to take to improve my testosterone? (1:24:51) #ListenerLive question #4 – How can I get out of this cycle of tons of movement/not enough calories and get into a better place? (1:38:56) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Legion Athletics for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP for 20% off your first order (new customers) and double rewards points for existing customers. ** Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off** Special Launch Promotion: MAPS GLP-1 ** Code: GLP70 for $70 OFF. Includes: Ultimate Medication Guide for Patients & Healthcare Professionals & Intuitive Nutrition Guide. ** August Promotion: MAPS Bands | MAPS 40+ 50% off! ** Code AUGUST50 at checkout ** Lifting Weights Might Help Prevent Skin Aging, Study Shows | Health Watch American Murder: Laci Peterson | Netflix Official Site 'Holy grail' or epic hoax? Australian Kelly Cahill's UFO abduction story still stirs passions Joe Rogan Experience #2190 - Peter Thiel Study Finds Humans Age Faster at 2 Sharp Peaks - ScienceAlert Watch Spacey Unmasked | Max E.T. Cereal Pet Rock Exotic Car Hacks | YouTube Visit Seed for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code 25MINDPUMP at checkout for 25% off your first month’s supply of Seed’s DS-01® Daily Synbiotic** Mind Pump #2287: Bodybuilding 101- How to Bulk and Cut Mind Pump #2210: Best Workouts for Bulking & Cutting TRANSCEND your goals! Telehealth Provider • Physician Directed GET YOUR PERSONALIZED TREATMENT PLAN! Hormone Replacement Therapy, Cognitive Function, Sleep & Fatigue, Athletic Performance and MORE. Their online process and medical experts make it simple to find out what’s right for you. Mind Pump #2312: Five Steps to Bounce Back From Overtraining Mind Pump #2385: Five Reasons Why You Should Hire a Trainer Mind Pump Fitness Coaching Course Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Drew Canole (@drewcanole) Instagram Pejman Ghadimi (@icreatemillionaires) Instagram  

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you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you Please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge bet MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario If you want to pump your body and expand your mind there's only one place to go Mind pump with your hosts Sal DiSteffano, Adam Schaeffer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Right in today's episode, we talked to live callers. People called in and we got to help them out on air,

but that was after our intro portion, which was 62 minutes long. Now in the intro, we talk about current events and family life. We bring up scientific studies. We have a lot of fun. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this one where you call in live, email us at live at mindpumpmedia.com. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Legion. They make high-performance supplements for

muscle building, longevity, to aid and assist in fat loss. Today we talked about some of their protein cookies. It's a high protein cookie, tastes very good. If you are interested, go check them out at yourself a discount. Go to buylegion.com, that's B-U-Y-L-E-G-I-O-N.com forward slash mind pump, use the code mind pump. Get $20 off, excuse me, 20% off your first order.

And if you're a returning customer, you get double rewards points. This episode's also brought to you by Organifi, great supplement company, great organic supplements. Today's episode we talked about their Shilajit gummies. You've probably been hearing about Shilajit now all over the internet. This is a very popular supplement although it's been around for a long time. Lots of data supporting its use. If you want a discount here's's what you gotta do. Go to organifi.com, that's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com forward slash mind pump, use the code mind pump,

get 20% off. Also, we are launching a brand new MAPS program, MAPS GLP-1. This is for those of you that are currently using a popular GLP-1 or a GLP-1 like semaglutide, trisepatide, brand names, Ozempic, Wegoovie, Monjaro, and others. This is a workout program, there's actually two workout programs, for people on these peptides.

There's also behavior modification. There's also supplement recommendations, nutrition recommendations, specifically for people in this unique situation. Because it's a brand new program, we're also gonna offer a discount. So if you go to mapsglp1.com, use the code GLP70, you get $70 off the retail price, and we're going to throw in two free ebooks.

The first one is the Ultimate Medication Guide for Patients and Healthcare Professionals, and the second one is the Intuitive Nutrition Guide. Alright, here comes the show. T-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time! Ah, shit Doug, you know it's my favorite time of the week. We have four winners this week, two for Apple Podcasts, two for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winners are Bentley the Canine and June Mann. And for Facebook we have Misty Sadler and Amaya Rae Rodenberg.

All four of you are winners. Send the name I just read to iTunes at mind pump media comm include your shirt size and your shipping address And we'll get that shirt right out to you For loose or aging skin if you want your skin to look younger and tighter do these three things eat a high protein diet Believe it or not lift weights and get good sleep the data is clear Those are the three things that affect your skin the most. Improving those will almost inevitably improve the appearance of your skin. Is that true?

Does that trump like vitamin E and the creams and all the stuff that they have out there too? Really? Yeah, if you have a whole case, so obviously if you have a nutrient deficiency, you wanna fill that first. But we'll start with the high protein diet. Your skin is made up of proteins, right, collagens.

And this is why studies show that people who supplement with collagen protein have improvements in their skin is because they're using a protein that's high in certain amino acids that have been shown to benefit the skin. Now if you'd have a very high protein diet, one gram of protein per pound of target body weight. Does that really matter, like the different way versus collagen?

I was just going to say, yeah, it does if you're not hitting those high protein targets. So if you're hitting one gram per pound of target body weight, you're overshooting and that means you're getting all the amino acids that you need for healthy skin. If your protein's lower than that, which most people's protein is lower than that, adding a scoop of collagen protein has a lot of benefit. So high protein diet's very good for the skin, if your protein's lower than that, which most people's protein's lower than that, adding a scoop of collagen protein has a lot of benefit. So high protein diets, very good for the skin. Now is that also, does this have some correlation with marathon runners and why they don't have good skin?

Is it because they're utilizing even the little bit of protein that they even eat, they burn all of it up to use for energy? You know, that's a good- Does that have anything to do with that? That's a good question. I wonder if it has more to do with just oxidative stress and exposure. I know that is true. But I mean, I would think if you're making the case that top three are what you just said and protein intake is one of them,

I would imagine that someone who runs marathons not only taps into all their glucose, sugar, utilizes all that, but then also has to probably utilize some of the protein as a source, and they're probably not eating enough. You know, it's a good question. They're a little underfed. I don't know what the marathon trends are now with diet. What they used to be was super high carb, but I wonder if that space has now moved into the high protein advice as well.

Obviously that's a bit of an overgeneralization for me to say that, right? There's always exceptions to the rule. There's somebody who probably eats plenty of it, but I mean, generally speaking, I remember training a lot of marathon runners. I saw the same thing, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, and you would see that, but I mean, generally speaking, I remember training a lot of marathon runners. I saw the same thing, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, and you would see that.

Like a fast aging of the skin. Yes, and so I wonder if this is one of the top three, you say these are the top three, that there's a correlation there also. Could be, you know, the other part was about lifting weights. Obviously, for a marathon runner, you're not doing a lot of strength training, you can't because of the amount of volume of training. But

I've talked about this on previous episodes, strength training has been shown to bolster and build the skin more than other forms of exercise because it signals protein synthesis in the skin as well. So although all forms of exercise seem to, if applied properly, improve the health of the skin, strength training is a step further. And so like, literally, if you're picking a form of exercise for skin, lift weights. Yeah, it seems the skin needs to be aggravated just enough.

Like, you know, and I know that like strength training is great for that, but like, you've seen products for beauty products where they're like, they'll literally like roll spikes like on their skin just to get it to kind of respond and get the healing response. But it needs that little bit of stimulus for it to really look youthful and healthy.

There has to be something to be said too about as you reduce a bunch of body fat that you replace some of that with muscle mass so it's not just losing total mass, right? That's another side too. Yeah, if you lose a lot of body weight, and especially if you lose a lot of weight, and you don't firm up or build some muscle underneath it,

there's just more space underneath it. Yeah, right. Yeah, so. I mean, that makes sense too. It does. The massive weight loss, loose skin, that one's up to debate in terms of what you can do to help prevent that. Yeah, how do you, I know, that's one of the things in terms of what you can do to help prevent that.

I know, that's one of the things. In my experience, the clients that did it slowly and built muscle at the same time, didn't have that. The challenge always was with the client who they came to me normally afterwards and they're like, I lost 50 pounds of my own the last couple months, and it's because they dropped so significantly, so much weight,

so quick. And so anyone that I ever trained where we did it over a year, two years, and it was this slow, kind of gradual weight loss, and as we lost body fat, we were also building muscle, they tended to not have that issue. Yeah, I noticed the same exact thing with the people that I work with.

It's like, so I think speed of weight loss plus the muscle building, plus what we're talking about, right? Because those clients that you train, you got them need a high protein diet and they were strength training, which are the two first things that I mentioned, right? Two things that improve the elasticity, the health, the firmness, for lack of a better term, youthful appearance of the skin. Then the third thing is to get good sleep.

That for sure, if you get bad sleep, and we've all experienced, anybody who's a parent knows what bad sleep does to your face, like your skin. You age so fast. You wear it right here. You totally do, and so good sleep makes a dramatic improvement in the health

and appearance of the skin. So those three things right there will take any skincare product and put them to shame because they have the biggest impact, uh, by far, but the high protein one, that's a big one because a lot of people don't realize that, that your skin is made of proteins. I mean, that's, those are, those are collagen matrices. I mean, those are two huge factors. I mean, for anything involving the body is the proteins, the building blocks.

You know, that's what you're going to get to help kind of replenish and rebuild cells. And then, you know, and then you need to regenerate. And so you need sleep. You know, what's interesting about what I'm saying here, we all worked in gyms for a long time, for decades. And anybody who's worked in a gym for a long time knows this. They've noticed this. You notice the members that you have

that seem to look more weathered and seem to age a little faster than other types of members. And I remember noticing this with my strength training members versus my group X or cardio members. The strength training members who were older, you know at the time, you know I was a young trainer but they were in 40s, 50s, 60s, they just looked younger. They just looked younger on their faces and it was the protein and the strength. Versus the leather and weathered. Yeah, yeah. You guys noticed the same thing right?

Yeah, yeah, no I noticed. I think that's a super common thing that you notice and it has to do with what I'm saying here. But back then we couldn't put our finger on it. We didn't know what it was, we just noticed like, God, they look so much younger, what is it? But now the data will show it's protein and strength training. Strength training was a surprising one for me when I first looked that up. I didn't realize that it literally builds the skin. It's like a signal for the butt,

it's an anabolic signal that says build. And this protein synthesis signal mostly is localized to the area that you're training but it also becomes systemic. Well you know what's funny about that is we're so concerned about muscle too but like think about like what it does to the bones and the skin right you know in conjunction with that because yeah you're expressing that contraction and both you know your skin and bones benefit from that. You do, and so when I've cited the data before,

so I don't know if you've ever noticed this, well I had a lot of older clients at one point and a lot of them would hire me and they hadn't been working out for years and years or never. So I was like, okay, you're really, really deconditioned. We're gonna start getting you to work out. And a lot of them were in their late 60s

but I had some in their 70s and some in their 80s even. One woman in her 90s. And they would always, they would talk to me about how easily they could damage their skin. How it became so fragile that if they bumped into something, they would tear or get cut. So they're really thin. Yeah, I noticed that with older people.

It gets real thin. Or they would bruise very, very easily. That's not from like a nutrient deficiency? Aging. I mean, you know, could be, but you know, at this point, you know, they would work with functional medicine practice. There was nothing glaring. Of course, their health wasn't great to begin with. That's why they were hiring me. But I do remember one woman in particular who, up until this point she had watched her diet and she had walked but she never really worked out. She hired me, she was very much into how she looked. She used to be a real estate agent back in the day

and she told me that she noticed her skin was tougher. So she told me, she's like, I used to cut my skin so easily and it would feel so, but since I started working out, and at that time I didn't know how to explain it. That's such random feedback. Right, but you know, you're looking back, I start remembering all these things

that these people told me. It was like, oh, that's what was happening. Now these are the top three controllable. How much does genetics play a role with stuff like that? Huge. You have that case of like, you've seen the lady who had just, she was pregnant and she had like a big old belly and then went all the way back to normal.

No stretch marks or nothing. And then you have other people that feel like they were rubbing the creams on, they were doing all this stuff like that and they still end up getting stretch marks and stuff like that. Is it, a lot of that, is it still just genetics play the largest role still?

Yeah, that's what the data shows. There's things you can do that'll change, that'll help that, but there's, my wife's like that. She had both kids and not a single anything, not a single stretch mark or whatever. If I gain or lose five pounds, I'll get stretch marks. So if I ever got pregnant, which I won't. Never know.

Please don't. Never say never. You never say never these days. Dude, springing up pregnancy. Okay, I'm so glad you said that. It just reminded me of this stat I saw. Do you guys know what the number one cause of death for a pregnant woman is?

You guys are gonna trip out when you hear this stat. I did not know. Leaving out? I don't know. What is the number one cause of death for pregnant women? Oh, that's a tough one. Yeah, you're not gonna get it. Malpractice?

Not gonna get it. Is it? Actually, that's a good guess, Justin, actually. I have a tough, I mean. I don't like get it. Is it actually that's a good guess Justin actually I have a tough I don't like this game. Is it is it is it violence? Is it that they get it's homicide homicide? I knew it Oh my god, it's dark. It's hella dark. Is that great? That's the number one reason for death from pregnant women Wow, it's homicide. Wow, so I was watching you guys remember the Lacey Peterson story Yeah, that just came out on Netflix Netflix, the whole series on it.

And so. Refresh me on what happened there. So that was the pregnant woman who disappeared, her husband, Scott Peterson, and they're from Modesto for where I was from. He was the, he's what they thought did it for sure. But he was like, claimed that they just came, he came home from a boating, fishing trip trip and she had disappeared. Nobody could find her. And, uh, long story short,

it, that he basically got, uh, accused the body washed up like half of her torso and stuff. Oh, I remember now. Like, like a month or two later or whatever like that. And so they were able to connect it to him and stuff like that. Um, but man, the, I, man, that stat came up in the story and I just had no idea. I mean, I thought it would, I actually would have guessed something like malpractice or some other cause or reason, but that's the number one reason for death when pregnant women is a homicide. That's terrible. That's a terrible stat. Makes sense though, because a woman who's pregnant

typically young, so it wouldn't be age related. Women don't typically die of illness when they're pregnant, although that's a a higher risk but violence would make sense because there's a lot of cases where you don't want you to be pregnant, I want you to have a kid. That was theirs right? So his you know he was he would they and this is how he ended up getting convicted was because later on they find out that he was cheating with somebody else and he was you know and they got recorded phone calls of him saying how much he loved this other girl and this and that. He, the other family openly knew that he didn't want

to have a child with her and then they got pregnant and so like there was so many things that pointed in that direction that this dude would actually attempt to do something like that. You have to be a special piece of shit to kill him. Not only that, but then to do that and then to be in front of the media and to put on a face like you're innocent. Sociopath.

Oh. Yeah, you're a sociopath. Crazy, bro. Crazy, crazy. That's terrible. And if you watch the whole thing, I mean, obviously it's not sport. I don't wanna watch that, it depresses me.

How do you watch that without feeling messed up? I, you know, I like the real life murder case stories. You like those too, huh? I do. Courtney's right on board with you there. I do, I do like those. I don't know why. Women love that generally, huh? I do. Courtney's right on board with you there. I do, I do like those. Bums me out. Women love that generally, huh?

Yeah, it just bums me out, dude. I can't, it makes me sad. It makes me feel weird. Yeah, so we can't end the night on that. Unless it's cults. Right, so if we... Is it? Yeah, that's right.

I like scary ass twists and boos, but at least they're fake. I'm not trying to watch real shit. Yeah, I don't know, murder cases do interest me. I don't know why, but I do... Is it because you're trying to figure out what happened? Yeah, I think that's to watch real. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know murder murder cases murder cases do interest me I don't know. I don't know why but I do I do because you're trying to figure out what happened Yeah, I think that's what it is. I think that that's the same reason why I looting I like I like movies that are like that like a movie that fools me, right? I love a movie that can like I'm trying to figure piece it together

And so I guess that's the part that I'm probably interested in as I'm watching the the doc you series I'm going like well They should have been able to connect these dots or it's gotta be him. And I actually had forgot a lot of that story. I remember when it happened, it was so big. I mean, news everywhere. Yeah, I didn't remember any of that story. I remember you mentioned that and I'm like, oh yeah,

that was huge news back then. I don't even remember the huge, how it all went down. Was it 90s, was it the 90s or was it the 2000s? It was 2004 or five, don't quote me. So around 20 years ago. Yeah, it was about 20 years ago. And it was on Christmas Eve. That's why. So the reason why the story got so big was because it was Christmas Eve and news was quiet. And so they had heard this missing person on Christmas Eve. And so a bunch of these

reporters were like, well, nothing else going on. So they went out to go find it. Pretty couple, young, pretty couple. And so it literally was something that the news kind of created into something as big as it was. Now, Granite probably ended up catching the victim because of that, because it could have easily got buried. Because the initial findings was she's missing and they

didn't think that he was guilty and I think a lot of the questioning came from the media and the media going like wait a second this is all the husband has for an alibi what does he say and like they kept pushing the agenda and then that was what kind of caused a deeper investigation so you can go to sleep after that No Katrina always put something else on what do you want? So what's your before bed? That's Jessica too. If we watch something a little bit too intense. Yeah, we have to finish with you typically stand-up comedy Otherwise, oh, yeah. Oh, I always do ancient aliens before I go to bed

Or weird shit is weird and it doesn't make any sense. It's comforting. Maybe I might get abducted. Maybe not. I feel like that would make me sleep very long. I just read about one of the most famous alien abduction stories ever.

It happened in Australia. I guarantee you know about it. There was a couple, I can't remember the name, maybe Doug can look it up, there was a couple who, they were at home, they had a business associate come over, another woman, and they were doing work and then they all went to bed and there was a crazy storm happening at the time. The wife or the girlfriend was on the couch watching TV, ended up falling asleep. In the middle of the night, the other woman gets up because of the storm and walks into where the TV room is

and sees the windows open and a blue rectangular beam is shining in the window and the woman who was on the couch is floating through the window in the beam. And she's like, oh shit, screaming. The guy wakes up, they both come out, they can't find this woman. They don't know where she is. She's like, I saw her fly out the window.

The husband or boyfriend's like, what are you talking about? They can't find her. Because they can't find her, they call the police. The police show up. This is why it's the craziest story. The police show up, they can't find this woman. Hours later, they get a phone call from 500 miles away and it's the woman who called and is disoriented,

like I don't know how I'm here. I transported over here. I don't know how I'm here or whatever and so this became this huge story. How did she go from there, there, 500 miles away? You've heard that story. I'm sure I have. Yeah, I don't remember it right now.

Yeah, did you find it, Doug? I think it's Kelly Cahill. Is that it? Is that right? It was in Queensland, I think it's Kelly Cahill. Is that it right? It was in Queensland I think or it was in Australia Yeah, hot this do a little bit more. Anyway, that's a crazy story. How do you explain that? So I always want to know the backstory of the people Yeah, what are you guys doing before that?

I saw a comedian making a joke. It's always like what's always like somebody who's off or does drugs and stuff like that It's like yeah, the aliens never abducts. We're having a normal night eating my yes. Yeah Sure sure Okay, they're like so yeah, that's it that I forget how the comedian did out obviously butchered But he did it like a good stand-up on basically being like the how smart and strategic the aliens are they always abduct somebody who nobody's In a belief. Yeah, yeah, to believe. It's always just like, of course it's that person. Well, that's when it gets weird when it's like an astrophysicist or it's like some military general that has an account.

And then you're just like, OK, wait, this guy isn't like an idiot. You know, like, obviously, it's either one or the other. Now, you're like, maybe this is just like, you know, misinformation or like they're trying to like throw some like distraction, you know, at us or it's like a real account. Did you listen, oh by the way, another piece of the story,

she had three triangle marks or tattoos on her, I think her hand and her, like these marks that were on her they couldn't explain. Yeah. Okay, Rogan just interviewed, who'd he just interview? The one of the PayPal mafia guys, what's his name? The what? You know like you had Elon Musk and you had,

was it Larry Page, is that the other guy? Am I thinking of the wrong name? Anyway, he interviewed somebody, hopefully someone can find out who it is, and they started talking about UFOs. Cause you know Rogan will bring that up. He does that. And I can't remember the guy's name was on there,

really smart guy, he was part of the PayPal startup, you know, he was a tech guy. Oh, Peter Thiel. Thank you, Peter Thiel. So Peter Thiel was on there and he goes, you know, and he had this crazy theory. He says, if you possess the technology for faster than light speed travel, interstellar travel,

right, you immediately have the power now to completely dominate the universe. Like if you have that, you can now very easily, because how could you defend that? If you could travel faster than the speed of light, there's nothing you could do against getting taken over. He goes, so either these are, either they're completely angelic beings, or they're demons.

So he's making the argument it's angels or demons. Because if this were true and they had- What's the logic behind that? So he says if this were true and they were, like what we know about biology is you always do what's best for yourself. You're always trying to move yourself forward at the expense of whatever else.

He goes, if that's what they are, then they'd be taking over the universe. We'd be tyrannized right now, but we're not. So he's making the argument that they're either angelic beings, angels, or they could be demons. So he's making the argument based off of the, just the technology alone. That was kind of interesting. Yeah.

I'm going to have to listen to that to get full context. That's, that's hard for me to wrap my head around right now. You know, you just said something that made me want to ask you something. I would probably normally ask you privately, but fuck it. We're on the podcast. So I'm going to ask you anyways, put you on the spot. Yeah, just, you know, you just said something that made me want to ask you something. I would probably normally ask you privately, but fuck it, we're on the podcast. I'm going to ask you anyways, put you on the spot. Yeah, just, you know, okay. So how is your, your spiritual journey that you're going through right now, being such a heavy science slash evolution guy who draws back to using that as the basis of many of your arguments, how is that holding up for you right now

with learning what you are learning? Because a lot of the things that you have said for a very long time, like even what you just said right now, based off of that, we always want to do what's best. Yeah, that's the theory of evolution. But if you don't necessarily believe all of that is true now, or are you don't necessarily believe all of that is true now or you somewhere in

the mix like there's some sort of a mix of both. You know I think they're totally compatible. I don't think, at the end of the day, you believe in a miracle, so either you believe everything came from nothing, that's a miracle, or you believe in the spiritual beliefs which is also involving a miracle. Or you believe in the spiritual beliefs, which is also involving a miracle. So I don't see why evolution couldn't be created by, as a biological process, by a higher power. So I don't see them as being,

like they're not compatible. They're mutually exclusive. Yes, I don't see that at all. Yeah, I've always believed the same thing too, that I don't think that one necessarily proves or disproves the other. I think that there's a place for both of them to coexist, but I mean, I think sometimes when you have like this purely evolutionary base, you tend to use that as the argument for why all these things had happened. And it's like, well, if you believe in this spiritual realm or world or God, that would trump all powers at be, right?

Like if he decided he wanted it to be this way, he could make it that way. And so therefore, that could totally throw a wrench. Well, I also think like if we, okay, as humans, if we acted based off of our animal needs, we wouldn't be doing very well. So a lot of the morality that we take for granted now, especially fighting our animalistic tendencies, especially in the modern Western world which was based on the Judeo-Christian principle, it just was. The Western world was based off these

principles. A lot of those counter your natural instincts. Your natural instincts are violence, greed, to seek pleasure, to get what's yours, all the stuff that we know is not good. So yeah, I think there's that side of us, the human, the flesh side of us, and then there's the spiritual side of us, which looks above and beyond that. But if we were living like animals,

I mean, would you wanna live in a world like that? I think it's already enough that way. During this process, has there been nothing that has been upended or changed for you? Or you still feel exactly the same way you feel, like evolutionary speaking, right, and science-based? Is there nothing that has made you question that, like dinosaurs or things like that?

This is where it's going. You know what I'm saying? No, no, no, no, but anything like that that maybe before you felt like. I haven't gotten there yet. I'm still at the part of like, you know, how I can get closer to God, how I can move my family in that direction,

what that looks like and how that affects me. I'm not at the part yet where I'm trying to explain everything. And I don't know if I ever will, you know, when it gets to that part, you know? Oh, I'm sure you will. It's in your DNA. Maybe, maybe.

I know I'm not gonna have the answers, that's for sure. Yeah, I mean, that's part of it, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know. We've had some interesting talks, like even just trying to explain string theory and quantum physics and like what they're finding with that. Like it always ends up more esoteric than like staunch science, you know, that you're dealing with. So it's like, you end up, that's almost

the spiritual side of science, you know, it's like we're trying to theorize purpose and meaning through all these connections and how everything's interacted and affects one another. We're just seeking that origin point. That origin point is really where everybody's sort of stuck. Yeah. It's just interesting to me because the first piece that really got me to go, whoa, this is weird. There's weird wisdom in some of these teachings was the realization that they weren't logical

in the sense that no human would have come up with, for example, I've brought this one up many times, there's nobody that would have come up with the idea of every human being made in the image of God, therefore we all have inalienable rights. That doesn't make any sense, look around. Does anybody look equal in this room? Let alone the world?

That makes no sense, you know what makes sense? I'm the ruler, you do what I say, I got this, you got that, I'll take that. You're dumb, you're smart, you're beautiful, you're ugly. You can't run as fast as, it's not a logical thought process, and yet it arose from the spiritual practice that led to what we often take for granted, which is societies that largely treat people far better

than people have been treated before, and has led to continual progress. That's not a normal, natural thought. There's no way any of us would come up with that. If we all just all of a sudden were born into this world, nobody would have been like, hey, I got an idea. Let's protect everybody's rights. What are you talking about?

John's not doing shit over there. I'm gonna take his stuff. You know what I mean? Doesn't make any sense. So that's when I was like, there's some wisdom here that doesn't come from us, in my opinion, because I don't see how anybody can. You don't think a brilliant philosopher

could have been sitting around with his family and stuff like that and they got seven kids and they're doing like, how do I think this through and protect and save my family? Like okay, maybe if I got everybody to be nice to each other, you don't think that could be... Maybe your family, but not everybody's family. It's a really non-logical, if you really think about it, non-logical thought. A lot of this stuff, a lot of stuff you'll read

in spiritual practices don't seem very logical. And there's spiritual truths, by the way, that span all kinds of different practices, not just the one that I follow. Anyway, earlier we were talking about aging. You know what I just learned? So I was up in Truckee this weekend with my cousins and my brother and we're all having a good time. Part of the way we have fun is we make fun of each other it's a good

time and so you know there my brother's you know poking at me he's like bro it looks like you age so fast the last couple years and he's trying to make fun of me yeah and we're just laughing and stuff and I'm like you know you just wait cuz he just there he's about to turn 40 so my brother my brother-in-law both same age are about to turn 40 and I my brother and my brother-in-law, both the same age, are about to turn 40. And I said, you know, there's something weird that happens right around your early 40s where you do notice that you just, something accelerates. And my cousin, my cousin who's my age,

is agreeing with me, he's like, oh, you can just wait, right? We sound like the old guys, you just wait. I literally just read an article, wasn't looking for it. Scientists have identified two times in your life, so you know how we go through growth spurts as kids? There's aging spurts. Yes, the way that your body ages seems to accelerate and go through this little sprint.

And it's early 40s and early 60s. Is that true? Now think about it, when you think about people, when they reach a certain age and they start to, ooh, they look really, they start looking older. No, I not felt that and it's funny cuz like Courtney's gonna go into it She's just turned 40 recently and like 41 I think now but it was like waking up There's all these new pains and it's like oh my knee hurts and then this hurts and I was just like Yeah, I've been there.

You know, like, I understand, like, it's all new. But it's like, it's funny to hear, because she was making fun of me forever. Like, you're just complaining about these like little aches and pains and groans. And because it's just like, it wasn't there before. You know, it was like, you're like, why? Like, why is this all of a sudden a thing? And she's yeah, going through that. It's funny. You mentioned, I have to mention that to her. Yeah. But you know,. It's funny that you mention, I'll have to mention that to her.

Yeah, but you know, we think of people that you know, isn't it true, like once they, so those are the two age groups. I know, 40 and 60, I do feel like that for sure. It feels different. You're scaring the shit out of Doug right now. Yeah, Doug's already through it. I've already gone through one of those. When's the next one?

Yeah. He needs a, he needs a. Death. Actually, I felt like 50s was when that happened for me. Did it? Yeah. Well, you're 10 years behind everybody. That's how I did too.

You age so slow. Yeah, yeah. So yours is going to happen in the 70s maybe. Maybe that's what's wrong with me. Maybe, maybe. Yeah. That's not a bad deal though. I know.

When you told us your age the other day, I didn't believe you. I didn't either. Katrina and I got an argument over it. I was like, that's not how old he is. I have his birthday. I'm like, yes, it is. What are you talking about?

He's the one who told me this. This isn't like information for sales. I think he knows. Yeah. I think I know. There's some memory guys as well. I joke so much, right? I teased about him being so much older

that I actually thought he was way younger. And so I was like, oh, Doug's a little, yeah, Doug's like 83 or something. Right? Yeah. He said, no, he's not 55. And then he's brought that up when we were walking. I thought, oh my God, he's almost 60. I am 85.

No, we're not gonna give out, we're always gonna keep it a mystery. 95. Just under 95. Just under 95. Just under 95. Just under 95. Higher than last time. Yeah.

He was babysat by Moses when he was little. It was actually a good. I mean, I'm telling you right now, there was a point when we first started this that I, and I know I've said it, and I think we've actually done it. I think we've passed that, where I was like, there's gonna come a time where if no one knew our age,

they'll start to catch up. No, that they wouldn't guess Doug is the oldest. I'm pretty sure we're there now. I'm pretty sure we're at a point now if we all lined up, you don't know who we are, we're strangers, and someone had to guess who's the youngest or the oldest. I don't think Doug is gonna be pointed out as the oldest.

I just got my, I went to pick up my daughter. She's with us this week, and her mom's like, oh, I found some old pictures of yours that I was cleaning out the garage. So she gave me a bag It's all right cool from home. I did one time I did it one time It's most it's one of the things I'm most embarrassed about I did these like little short modeling pictures, right? I had this photographer take pictures me never did anything with them. How old were you? It's 20 my mid 20s. Oh, wow. Yeah, so and no I will never show you guys For sure. You'll take a picture, so and no I will never show you guys. Yeah

For sure. You'll never but I was showing Jessica. She's looking at oh, yeah, dude, and I'm looking I'm like what a baby I got this little baby face, you know those dark hair. That's so funny that you did that So literally yesterday at the mall Katrina It was it it was it. What's that ball on a stage? like competition It wasn't, it wasn't, what's that ball pit? Like on a stage? Remember they had like competitions for that? Oh my God. Yeah, be a model. They would just like take pictures of all these kids. They're embarrassing because I'm actually,

yeah, no, I was actually trying to look sexy, bro. I was trying. And I'm looking at him now, I'm like, God, please God, don't let this ever happen. Oh, I need to see these. Katrina just got a box. Who gave it to someone? Just gave her her mom, I think, gave her a box of like old pictures that she had and she had some stuff before that we were so before her and I together, she had some photos of me that

were in there. I'm like, how do you, why do you even have this? She's like, because you were gonna throw them away and I kept them. I'm like, yeah, I know I was gonna throw them away. It was in Baker's wedding. So this is like 2000 and I want to say like five or so somewhere there, 2005 or so. Almost 20 years ago. Yeah. So 20, about 20 years ago. And I remember, I remember this after seeing the picture, like, Oh my God, the photographer, uh, I was in pretty good shape around that time. And the, the lady photographer was getting Mark and I to do all these like, like sexy poses for like, and there's a photo together. Well, yeah, like we're together taking them,

but they weren't like us. I was gonna say, I was holding a level. He's shooting on me. Double trouble. There's like a photo of me like laying in the sand, you know what I'm saying? What? And like, it's like, you're like small, like,

yeah, dude, it's like. Were your feet up and like crossed? Yeah, no, they were crossed, but they were up, and I'm like laying like this, like looking up with the camera in the like part water part sand Oh you were? Yes dude, I'm like, why? Why did I let her be? This is how people get talked into shit, you know what I mean?

Well you know why? Cause we're just hitting music balls together Yeah That's it, your ego and the photographer's like, oh that looks good Yeah, yeah, she's like, oh my god I wanna do these with you and I'm like, okay, yeah Bro Okay, now you guys go run in the water but slow Yeah

Real slow Can you dry them off? No, we did shit like that, walking go run the water but slow Did she like that walk it walk it One of mine that the photographers like bring it as well as you just you're just like bring your jiu-jitsu gate We'll do some photos and you're getting like cool. So she's like open it up. I hope it up. Wow Yeah, did I look at the photo my daughter saw? up. Yeah, dude, I look at the photo. My daughter saw him. I mean, I'm a blackmailer with you guys. Yeah, if you do something wrong, I'm going to show all your friends with your jabs. It was Guy with the... Blow it up, put it on the wall of the house. You guys had that. I'm literally like surprised

I made it out a heterosexual. What? What? I grew up... That took a left turn. Listen. I grew up loving to wear wigs. What? Yeah, like when I was in preschool,

I would like love wearing wigs. I put like dress up, you know, that was like my thing. Preschool, you remember? Yeah. You got to choose your clothes in preschool? You did. You had like a whole closet and they had this whole section

where you just like grab like costume stuff, throw it on. You like the wigs? I was like the, I'm the character. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, at the school. on like wigs I was like the character yeah oh yeah at the school and then like I was like your parents had a closet that's just my thing like you guys have your modeling stuffero. I don't know about you, just. I'm just saying, I'm real comfortable. Are those photos anywhere? There are, yeah.

There's some of those. See, those are cool. If you're a little kid, those are embarrassing, because you're cute. I was in my 20s. My reason by bringing that up is because nowadays they try and usher me into some camp. That's a good point. You'd already be in the other bathroom by now. Completely opposite.

It's not even... I went through a phase. That's a good point. Right away. You'd already be in the other bathroom by now. Completely opposite. It's not even, but I went through a phase. That was a whole phase? A whole phase of wigs. I'm not sure you grew out of that. I'm pretty sure you've wore a couple of wigs here. It didn't grow out of it completely. Well, you love doing that shit. It reminds me about- Yeah, it was just like a goof. Did you ever do drama? I did one in junior high. I was in a play, and it was the first time. And I had to be in a high school play, and I was like, oh my god, this is like, terrifying, because it's all the older kids, and you're this young kid that.

And I was like an extra. And then one of the performances, they're like, we need somebody. And I had to throw on this costume, just go out there like riff and like improv and it was like Alice in Wonderland and so I was out there as like this the red knight or the white knight or whatever and I was talking to I'd like two lines but then we ended up like sword fighting and one of my swords broke and so I like everybody's laughing then I was like I had to make a joke like that my sword wasn't as big as his but I could fight, you know use it really well Said something like that, you know, and then everybody's like ha ha I got like a joke out of it

But then I was just like so terrified like that was like when ran off the stage. What a great joke on the spot Yeah, yeah, but that's it. Yeah, it was it was totally like I was like, ah terrified like Popular you became popular after that And then I became fart boy did you ever do that well hold on what you're not gonna let that go I told you guys in story already we're like one of my friends backstage he grabs like to pick me up and like you know he squeezed me too hard and he squeezed me in story dude, I ripped one for all these cute girls and it was mortifying. And the next day, like everybody's laughing,

ah, and then he shuts his skull. And we're like, hey, it's Fartboy. And I'm like, oh God, no, it would be Fartboy, dude, forever. I thought for sure that was gonna stick forever, dude. I don't remember that story. Oh my God, dude, I was terrified. that was gonna stick like forever dude. I don't remember that. Oh my god. You know, it's terrified Speaking of place this is so funny Like I was like I have another like docu-series that I watched I did I literally just vegged out the last I was so tired

Of driving for the weekend that I just wanted to sit in my room just watch TV and I watched Kevin spacey unmasked you guys seen that no Fuck you gotta watch that. All right. Bro I mean hey the reason why I thought you just reminded me, they go all the way back to like you know plays that he was doing and he was in high school and in college and like dude was a predator all the way back to like high school days dude. Wow. Come on. Yes. Well wasn't his dad was like abusive or? Yes. Yeah. Yeah his dad was like a Nazi and sexually abused his brother. Oh my god.

Yes. All kinds of stuff I did not know. Wow. And I did not know like what a predator he was. He was like, oh crazy, and got away with it forever. No wonder he thought he could get away with it. Still to this day. Oh, wow.

He ain't doing no time right now. Wow. So you got to watch the documentary. You know he's been to court like three times from like multiple cases of men saying that he sexually harassed them and he's won all of them. Wow. Yeah, and not like one person coming out,

like multiple people coming out, accusing him, it going all the way to court, he wins in court, again, goes to court. Wow. Yes. Oh, so he's just real. Yeah. The only reason why you probably even know about it is because the big Netflix drama, because Netflix pulled him. There was enough for Netflix is

like, we're pulling him from House of Cards. And they pulled him because of some of the casts from House of Cards were some of the people that complained to being sexually harassed by him. And like really sexually harassed, not like flirting, like grabbing men's dick like I like yes crazy stuff well no idea I didn't know any of that I didn't know if he ever got punched so that's what he did he did it to a army ranger guy and the guy didn't punch him no they all that's weird you know what every almost like instantly yeah that's okay

so I said the same thing to Katrina how like said, how weird is it that at the very least hit him back in the, you know, show them out. So here's what here is here was the weird. This is one of the things that her and I were like talking about. She's like, how does this happen to this many men and he never gets his ass whooped? Yeah, like how does that happen? And it's not like, like I said, they're not, it's not aggressive. It's aggressive, right?

Like really aggressive on a lot of different like crazy power over them with so what it what it is is almost all of them Were like we're trying to be actors Oh, and they they were they were in such admiration of him right and awe of him So they're probably confused. Yes, and a lot of them all said this They almost all said the same thing where they are like I felt like it was my fault. Oh Yeah, like they felt like they put themselves in those positions. Well, think about this, and you've seen this before.

It's hard for us to, this is why it's hard for us, because none of us are like, none of us are starstruck people, none of us. We've all talked about this openly, I don't follow famous people, I don't think there's anything special about them, they're great at their craft, there's a lot of people that are great at their craft, there a lot of people are great at their craft

There's happens to be acting singing whatever not most people are not are a lot of people aren't like that a lot of people Oh my god, they he's he's this he's that he's so amazing And so these were all these you know young men and stuff that were looked at him that way and you could see when they look At him out. They look they look at him almost with those goo-goo eyes and He would see that and that he would see that as an opportunity, as like, oh, this is someone I can take advantage of. And so he would do that, and then a lot of times, these guys would be like, I felt like I put my, it was my fault, I put myself in this situation,

and so they all didn't stay quiet and didn't say anything about it. And of course, on the back burner going, man I get it. I get an opportunity, right? I hope that he still will put me out there or put my name on the hat or like and so yeah, they it's weird The amount is in See like I'd punch someone A lot of that has to do with why because you, because you don't think anybody's special like that. You wouldn't look at somebody and like, oh, oh my God, he's so,

but if someone who does look at somebody like that, it changes that. They have like a God complex about them, right? So, yeah. Weird psychology. Very weird psychology. And when the documentary was going and each case was coming out,

I said the exact same thing to you guys, I was like, how the fuck did it? then it got to like the army ranger, dude He's like Jack too. He's like super Jack Masculine dude, and he's just like you feel like he could be yes, like how did you not just break and he explains himself He's like, I know a lot of people probably think because I'm this But he's like, you know, he's like you you know at that time. He's like he was in his acting career He's just coming out of the Army and stuff like that, and he's like,

you know, I really. I feel like Sal would be confused if Elon Musk did that. No, I would not be confused at all. No, I would not. Like, what, why'd you do that? Yeah, why? Hey, you know what, you just reminded me, we were talking about those embarrassing modeling photos

and whatever, I did send him out one time, we were talking about those embarrassing modeling photos and whatever. I did send them out one time, and I did get a call from some creepy dude. I did get a call, yes. I think I told you guys, he called me, and he goes, yeah, I'd like to have you come up, and we're gonna have a bunch of guys come up, and we're gonna shoot for some athletic this,

that, and the other. And I said, oh cool, I said, when's the date? Give me the date, and I said, cool, let me find a place for my wife and I to stay. He goes, oh, no spouses. I said, what do you mean no spouses? He goes, we don't want any girlfriends or anything there, just a bunch of guys, and he said something like,

you know, messing around, wrestling and stuff. I'm like, what? Noogies. I'm like, what are you talking about? No, that's true. Now that happened to me in the early 2000s, there was these photographers that would prey on personal trainers. And exactly that pitch was this like,

and this had happened to me multiple times. We're just horsing around. Anybody uses that term? Yeah, horsing around. Literally it was almost, we must have probably talked to the same person because this it was a calendar It was a gay calendar. Well, you knew on a Saturday. No, that's how I found out later Oh, yeah, cuz he had he's like offered like a modeling gig

Yeah, and said we pay you was like a thousand dollars a day and I'm like, okay I'm listening now. I've been offered like the ones where they tell you like we'll do your shoot It only cost this much. It costs you money. It's like, okay, it's cool. Yeah. Calvin Klein will call me when they're that serious, right? This guy actually was like, hey, we pay. Like you, you come out Saturday, we get to pay $1,000 for a day of work, this and that. I'm like, okay, I'm listening. Like I'll take a phone call. And so I took the phone call and on the phone call, he was like slowly dripping the information. I mean, like, oh, we go to the beach and how do you feel? Do you feel comfortable with your shirt off and some of them? Yeah, I feel comfortable with my shirt.

Yeah, it was like the breeze. What about like down in your underwear? Is that okay? Like it was just like getting less and less. Yeah, a little less and it's like, are you comfortable with other people? And it's just like, okay, where is this going? You know what I'm saying? It's like, oh, then later on at the, he talked to me for like a good 45 minutes before I like, He slowly got you. Yes. He like slowly asked me like, quite like, getting me to like a closer, getting me to say yes. Yeah, yeah, I would do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, no, wait a second. No, I won't do that. How did we get here? That took a turn real quick. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. That happened to me when I was 22 or something. You were in a blanket?

I would never, that's would I would never that's what somebody in the gym though was it somebody who hit you in the gym no no I was the person it was a phone call so that's how it happened to me so somebody else saw me told this guy this guy I can't called the gym and got me that's how they go and I never met him ugly kid yes you were not hot, dude. It took a while for me to mature. You weren't hot enough for these guys to get out, dude.

Yeah, I guess not, yeah. So, that's hilarious. Wow, anyway, good stuff. So, all right, we're supposed to talk about Legion. I wanted to compare their protein cookie. You had a C-transition. I know, you like that? Speaking of cookies.

Yeah. You were delicious like a cookie., you like that? Speaking of cookies. Yeah. You were delicious like a cookie. Turn your cookies off. Speaking of cookies, I compared the protein cookie from Legion to the popular, what is it called? Lennie and Larry's? Lennie and Larry's. Oh, Lennie and Larry's. Yeah, it's at the gas stations.

Yeah, I actually ate some of those when I was going through a stint of not having dairy and was not happy. Oh, they're dairy free? Yeah, it's like vegan protein. Do you know what their top protein is in their cookie? No. Okay, the number one source of protein they use in it?

Peas, no. Peas, no. Wheat gluten. Oh my God. They actually add gluten to give you more protein. Oh my God. No wonder it still gave me heartburns. Yeah, that's exactly why.

That's exactly why. No way. Yes, dude. Oh, that's funny. Now No way. Yes, dude. Oh, that's funny. Now, macro-wise, for the same kind of serving size, it's eight grams of protein. But again, it's wheat gluten is the number one source. Then it's pea protein and then rice protein.

The Legion one, the number one source of protein is whey protein. You're gonna say whey, probably. Yeah. Whey protein. In fact, that's the first ingredient, whey protein and milk protein. I like the cookies. I eat them all the time. And they're 15 grams milk protein. I like the cookies Yeah, and they're 15 grams of protein I just say it's 15 grams right 15 grams in this one almost double the other ones that glorify cookie, bro Yeah, it's a cookie. Yeah, it's a vegan cookie. Yeah splash so that and you guys eat those all time

I do we go through them fast very fast. Yeah, I guess I like one a day. Which one's the best? Yeah, chocolate chip is the only one I've had should they chip. They have other ones? I've been stealing them though for my kids, to be honest. Do they have other ones, Doug? I don't know, look it up. I don't think so. I mean, if they do, we have an eye for an eye. So I had one of their cookies. I had one, because now you know I can throw

dairy in every once in a while. And I had one, and it's not bad. It's really good. Speaking of dairy, you guys want to hear a crazy, crazy, you'll never believe story, ever? Okay. I door dashed groceries up in Truckee. So we're all hanging out, we grilled steaks.

It was funny too, because we ate out earlier in the day. And so I'm with my cousins, a bunch of dudes, a bunch of dads hanging out, and we're like, that's enough eating out. Let's just have steaks and vegetables, maybe live some potatoes, we'll eat healthy. I'm like, cool, so we do that. And of course, we're sitting there and I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna make this fun. I'm gonna order some potatoes. We healthy. I'm like cool. So we do that. Of course. We're sitting there and I'm like, you know

I'm gonna make this fun. I'm gonna order some some treats. So I Yeah Get some treats guys delivered so which I was really good by the way I was I was something different like in your 20s when he said something I thought you know food Sugary stuff. So I ordered a bunch of stuff I got some some cereal that my cousin used to like when we were kids because I knew when we were kids he liked this one particular

type of cereal. I found it. Then I got like ice cream for everybody and then I got dairy free. Marshmallow mateys? No, no. That was Golden Grabs. The poor version. That was the poor version. Yeah. Golden Grabs. Oh, Golden Grabs. Yeah. When we were kids. Do you know what I found?

I found cinnamon toast crunches. Too much though. It's insane. It's like Fisher ice cream. So all right. So sorry Justin So, uh, I got dairy free ice cream now What I forgot to do was the whole substitute thing if they don't find mine or whatever, but I didn't realize it So all the food comes everybody gets their stuff, everybody's excited, my cousin's like, oh, you found Golden Grahams, these guys over here eating Reese's Pieces ice cream, and I have my little tub of ice cream

that I thought was dairy-free. So I start eating it, and I'm like, this is the best dairy-free ice cream I've ever had in my life. I'm like, really, like, this is not. I'm like, I've never had dairy-free ice cream that's so good. I'm like, and I'm literally bragging about it

to everybody how good it is. I'm like, this is so good. I can't believe how good it is. Finally, my cousin's like, are you sure it's dairy-free? I'm like, of course it is. I look at it, no, bro, regular ice cream. Hey, listen, I ate half, what's the small, what is that? Pint.

Is that? I ate half before I realized I ate, now ice cream for me in the past was How did you do? Fine really fine. That's crazy fine. Yeah, literally fine. Yeah, I I was waiting for No dairy guy all of a sudden. What's keeping you from like There's still a water retention effect. It's still not good for me. I can tell because the next day I felt tight And I could tell it wasn't great,

and that I would have still felt better with Dairy Free, but it's not like, bro, in the past, this is not exaggeration, if I had a teaspoon of ice cream in the past, I was not good for a day or two, let alone just the next, you know. Sidebar to this, like cereal sort of nostalgia. So I didn't know if I told you guys, my uncle actually worked for General Mills. Really? And was part of the formulation of some of these cereals back in the day. So I don't know if you remember,

but there was an ET cereal. Yes. And it was just a limited time. Yes. And it was like Reese's Pieces flavor. Yeah, so he was part of that whole thing. We got a box of it before anybody else, and we were like eating it. Why haven't you ever? That was like such a brag. I was stunting all my friends like, dude, I got this cereal.

And I was like eating it. Why didn't you ever tell us this? How long have you known this? I've known it for a long time. It just wasn't relevant. So yeah, because Reese's had a. That's not the first time we talked about cereal. I know. It's true. Nine years, nine years I've been podcasting with it. I just found out. My uncle was the general formulation for General Mills. Yeah. No big deal. My uncle was General Mills.

He was the general in the mill. No, it wasn't that crazy. Oh by the way way. When we were kids Reese's Pieces were the, it was ET, because ET ate them in the movie. Yes. Yeah, so when I was a kid I thought they were connected. Yeah, so I mean we did have a few in like, he was responsible too for the French toast version of this Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Do you guys remember that?

I would love to be in a cereal meeting. I know. You know what I mean? You're just coming up with stuff. Dude, then wear like the white, I don't know, it was like this whole outfit from the 50s, a little painter hat thing, like they like legit, like had a uniform and they all went to work

and it was like very corporate and it's weird. I'd actually love to hear what were some of the biggest bangers ever. I would like to hear which ones never made it. Like what ideas did they scrap? That's what I wanna know. I bet there's some amazing ones. Like ketchup and mustard when they went black

and stuff like that? Yeah, dude. I know, that was a massive fail. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see how many fail. Probably a lot, bro. There's probably a ton of formulations that don't make it, right? You build these associations

Yeah, watch the original box is worth a million dollars like that. Oh my god, that's it right there So good and then it got it wasn't even close. Oh my god. They the puffs now. They're terrible Tell me that's not the most iconic. What is that 80s picture of all time? It's ET and Michael Jackson Okay, no sidebar you ever seen the product for ET that had a finger that lights up? It's just a finger. It looks like a dildo. Nope, Justin, we were all there.

I'm sad to say, yeah, what it is. It's a, what is it? It's a toy? It was a toy. It was a finger that lights up and vibrates. And it would, yeah, like a magic. No, that's it. I don't know if it vibrated. It was just a finger. I don't know, maybe it doesn't vibrate. I it would, yeah, like a magic. No, that's it. Phone home.

It was just a finger. Maybe it doesn't vibrate. I thought it did. That part you added. I added that. I'm pretty sure it didn't vibrate. I think it just lit up. I wanted to make it better.

It looked like it did. It did, dude. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. All these moms are buying these toys for their kids. Yeah, flying off the shelves.

Crazy. I don't get it. H, flying off the shelves. Crazy. I don't get it. Hottest Christmas present ever. How many kids do you have? Why'd you buy two of them? Wasn't that one of the most general meals over there? Wasn't that one of the most pivotal moments in cereal was when they actually started putting

toys in the cereal? Wasn't that a big... That was a big deal, yeah. That was the first big... And a lot of them were associated with the cartoons, like Saturday Morning cartoons. They built these whole brands with the cartoons. Do they still put toys in cereal? Or is there a choking hazard now? Does somebody die? with the cartoons, like Saturday Morning cartoons. They built these whole brands with the cartoons. Do they still put toys in cereal?

Or is there a choking hazard now? Somebody die. I don't know about that. Because I would- I don't remember seeing any. I would ruin a box of cereal to get the, you know what I mean? Where you go and you'd see it be all-

Oh, it would disappear in the 2000s. Why? I think it's because of a choking hazard. It must be. It has to be Yeah, no, come on It's a car that's not a cereal Bad parents, you know, I'm saying to have taught your kids the difference between a hot wheel and a fucking it's sugar puff

Johnny diedy. Where's that kid today? He had a car. Maybe he should know you know what some poor parent right now Is gonna say who lost a kid? I feel Immediately regret that terrible terrible anyway speaking advertising I think organifi Has set a trend actually I'm positive they have set a trend in the supplement space with Shilajit Oh hundred percent have you guys ever seen as many Shilajit ads? Well, not only that, we have got, you know how we get stuff sent here all the time. It normally doesn't make it to you, Sal,

until we think it's even worthy of like, passing the science stuff. I have shampoo, soap. That's Shilajit? Yes. Why? I think tea or honey. Like, yeah, just, that's like the-

Because it's so cool. It is, you know what it reminds me of? Trying to smash it into anything. Remember when we first started the podcast and we were talking about how everything had CBD in it? Yeah. I feel like Shilajit has become the CBD of 2024. Wow. It's like literally like that. It's like everybody is putting it-

It's a great compound. It's got data to support it, but you want it to be sourced well, and I don't think washing yourself with it or putting your shampoo makes a difference. Well, it just, again, reminds me of the CBD move. Consume it. Like, obviously it's got some good science behind it to support it because it wouldn't make its way into everything else, but now,

just like anything else in the space, once we get some good science to support it, oh, it's like, game on, you know what I'm saying? Let's put it in every... Brush support it, oh, it's like game on. You know what I'm saying? Let's put it in every shape with it. It's going to work. I'm like, so I took home the soap. I've been like lathering myself up with this, like trying to figure out like, is this working? Should I feel something right now? Yeah. That's it's supposed to eat it. Yeah. Well, I was surprised. That's when Organifi first came out with the Shilajit. I was so excited because I was surprised no supplement company was really pushing it

Because it's a well-known Ayurvedic supplement. They are now everywhere. Yeah, Organifi definitely. That's their, by the way, they're that whenever we talk Whenever I talk to Drew, he's like that one just Crushes. You know, I wonder if it just I mean, what's the there was a really good Netflix I think was the TED talk that talked about like the I think the three or five most Top reasons why a business is successful and number one is is timing of the market. You sure you know So there's a lot of track There's a lot of great ideas that never make it to anywhere that no one ever found just because the time it was and there's a lot of shitty ideas that end up being gangbusters because it was just timed perfectly.

And so that has to be a big part of, they just, they hit the market. What's one of the most famous shit, weird, stupid products that made someone millions of dollars that you can think of? Pet Rock. Yep, it's gotta be the Pet Rock. Yeah, that was the first. That's a real thing.

People watching this right now, you're not familiar. I can't familiar off Yeah, somebody in the 60s was the 60s more the 70s 70s. Is that when the pet rock was literally? No, no, no, it was just a rock. It was just even it was a rock You got a box with a rock in it and it was called pet rock. No, I think they painted it 75 They painted eyes polish it I think they painted it 75 they painted eyes polish it I don't think so. Oh you think they just sold the rock?

You never owned it because you were allowed to have toys, yeah No, I had rocks my backyard Yeah, you want rocks go outside I don't think I think it's just a rock with some nesting straw. Told you. Wow, look at that. Hey. So I've never seen that either. Hold on, listen. Like it's an egg, $4. It's just crazy, bro. He invented, I like how he says he invented, okay? The idea came about

after Dahl, the guy's last name was Dahl, Gary Dahl, was listening to his friends at a bar complain about their pets in 1975. He joked that he had a pet rock that didn't require any work. His friend's reactions made him realize he was onto something. So he bought smooth Mexican beach stones for about a penny each. And then he packaged them, put real boxes with ventilation holes, straw bedding. He sold them for $4 each and he sold over a million and became a millionaire. It's so hilarious. That's so rad. That's crazy. What a hustle.

Now imagine being his friend, right? Imagine if I came up to him like, bro, I got this business idea. I'm gonna sell rocks. I know. It's gonna be pet rocks. You'd be like, you're an idiot. Like what kind of rocks are we moving?

Well imagine how many stupid ideas came after that idea because that idea was so ridiculous, everybody would probably go back to that and be like, well, I mean, they sold pet rocks. We could sell this, we could do this. Yeah, timing, timing the market, man. That's a big part. Now, what's interesting about this,

it lasted only six months and then it ended, but I wonder if owning an original one in this box would be worth a lot of money now because of the iconic. Oh, if it was an original? I bet you. Oh, 100%. Yeah, yeah, stuff like that holds value for sure. If you had something like that that was one of the- Think that's iconic. Yes. Oh, actually%. Yeah, yeah, stuff like that holds value for sure. If you had something like that, that was one of the

True. Yes. Oh, actually look it up. There's probably sure look up original pet rock on eBay I bet you somebody selling it for good money. Yeah, it's got to be because of only a million sold That's still a limited amount. How do you how do you make sure? How do you know if it's the original? I know that's actually a good point. Like there's you maybe that actually will be worth money is probably the stupid box Yeah, it'd have to be point. Like there's maybe the actual will be worth money. It's probably the stupid box. Yeah, it'd have to be in the box, unopened. 29 bucks. Wow.

This is just inflation right there. Yeah. It's just how much rocks actually cost now. Yeah. They sell them. You can still buy one? Yeah, it looks like you can get them on Amazon. 30 bucks.

30 bucks for pet rocks. That's inflation, dog. It was $4 in the 70s, that's about right, right? Oh. 70s, $4, Doug, to 29, that's actually probably, that's about right for inflation. Wow, they still sell them.

I mean. And it says original, okay. It's like a number one. I kinda wanna buy one. Hey, there's, look at how many reviews, how many reviews, how many people actually? 600. 600 people have rated this.

600 people have rated this, yeah. You know who buys them now? Four and a half stars. I bet you who buys them now are boomers, right? Who grew up during that time. Yeah. It's nostalgic. Yeah, no, that's a good-

So they probably buy it as a joke. No, that's a good guess. For each other. Yeah, exactly. What does it say? Look at it, my son was happy. Yeah. Well, it's a rock.

Well, it's a rock. It's a joke. It's a joke. You know, talking about things like this that hold value and investing and boomers buying, you know, you just remind me, this is my shout out today. So I'm going to shout this guy out and I do want to caution because he's definitely, he's got edge. He's a bit of an asshole.

I like him. I like it, I like people. Why would you like that? Yeah, I like people like that. I know. Because I'm a bit of that guy, or I'm saying right. Oh, maybe, yeah, you're kinda like that. Yeah, so. A little bit.

He is in the watch and exotic car space, and he's been doing this for over 20 years, and his Instagram is IcreateMillionaires. Now, he became famous through basically trading up on watches and teaching people how to buy and flip them and sell them. And he's done the same thing in the exotic car market. Now I love his content because I follow that market

and I'm paying attention to all those cars, but he teaches people, he has like a whole, all kinds of like eBooks and stuff that are out there on how to target cars that are like older that hold value and so you know his argument is like why would you with the average car payment at $700 a month pay for some car that'll be worth nothing in ten years from now when you could drive this Ferrari from 90 whatever and drive it for a year basically turn around and sell it in two years and get your money back

Because of how the markets that's that's I mean, it's very it makes a lot of sense It makes it's a test it makes sense. It's and it's brilliant. I have to be a little for the Ferrari Yeah, well an older one is reasonable. You can get a much Well, you get an older one in the 80s to $100,000 depending on the miles and stuff like that So I mean it's comparing to a 700 car payment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So which is a $70,000 car today, right? So that's the argument. Is that the average car payment now?

Seven over seven, average car payment in the United States right now is $740. What's wrong with people? That's crazy. $740, isn't that insane? That's crazy. By the way, that is the average, which means there's obviously people.

There's half as above and wow. Yes, I mean that's most crazy. There's half as above and wow. Yes, I mean that's most, there was an article that I saw that was. There's kids with Teslas, dude. I'm like, what are we doing? Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah.

That is kinda weird. My kids knew school, they were like, these kids have Teslas, I'm like, what? Yeah, start with a beater, you know? Like, what happened to that? Dude, I was, the car that I started with was a hazard. That's how, you know what I mean? Oh yeah.

It was dangerous to drive. It was. And that's my starter car. It made noise if I turned to the ladders. My car, a lie first car, kicked out a second gear when you were driving it, it had a broken rear tail light, it had four different wheels and hubcats, it smelled like mold because the window got left open

in the winter, yeah, it was horrible. Yeah, I do. Built character though. Yeah, I do. Build character though. It was turned black. You're not going to get a $100,000 car though for $740 a month. What are you going to get? Less.

Yeah, much less. Yeah, much less. That's why it's the average car payment. You're going to maybe like a $50,000 car. Oh, okay. 50, maybe 60. It depends on the term. So he does, I use Fry's an example, but he teaches how to grab, buy an old M5.

Sure. I use Ferrari as an example, but he teaches how to grab, buy an old M5. You can buy an M5 that's four or five years old for 50 to 70K and it'd be. And it'd be, you'll sell it, as long as you don't drive it. Yeah, yeah, so even though his whole thing is exotic car hacks, he teaches Flaris, Lamborghinis, all that other stuff, but he'll even teach you how to get into an M5 or a Mercedes GT and like these cars.

I mean, all these markets, all markets have this element where if you go in and understand them. That's right. This is why I find, this is how I got sucked into his content and I've consumed a lot of his stuff because it's been very interesting for me to watch and understand like how to target the right car

and look for specific specs and like just the education about it is, so if you're into that stuff, watch his cars, it's a really cool follow. If you're not, then it's not a big deal But I thought I'd share with the audience because I just tag I create millionaires as his IG and then his YouTube channel Is exotic car hacks? By now, you know that probiotics can really improve your health. It's good for gut health It can help reduce inflammation in some cases helps with things like anxiety and depression. This is actually backed by studies

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Anyway, go through our link, get yourself a discount. Go to seed.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code 25 five mind pump, get 25% off your first month's order of Seeds Daily Symbiotic. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is David from Mexico. What's up David?

What's going on Dave? What's happening Dave? Hey boys, it's good to be back. Hey, how you doing? Good to see you again, man. What's going on? Great to be back. It's all good, it's all good.

I've been pretty excited to get back in touch with you guys. I wanted to say that, well, I've been listening to you guys for a long, long ass time, ever since the first episode, all the way back to the bajazzled things and you know, the old stuff. Yeah. I got every single one of your programs, even Muscle Mommy, I don't your programs, even Muscle Mommy.

I don't plan to be a Muscle Mommy, but you got it. You're committed, I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. And of course it's always comes useful when I have to program for my wife, to my beautiful wife, shout out to my wife. But I love you guys. I love all the stuff that you guys put out

and I'm pretty excited to support you guys. The information that you guys put out is amazing. Well, to the question now. A little bit of context before I ask the question. I was planning to do like a year-long mass gaining bulking year and Sal suggested to run, well, the programs that I was planning to run, Sal suggested the order, all time, then PowerLift, then Anabolic Advance, then Strong. All time, by the way, the last time that I called you, I asked you guys for that program and as it turned out, you were already cooking it. So as soon as it went out, I got it and it's an amazing program.

I love it. I absolutely love it. It's one of my top three along with power lift and strong. Yeah. All right. Yeah, some good ones. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing so the plan was to do like a year bulk or Year of mass gaining but as you guys always know you have to change gear sometime from time to time. I was getting a bit chunky, so right now I'm doing suspension, and then I'm going to go back to strong. And my question has to do with the process of cutting. I know that the best way to cut is to first increase your metabolic rate and increase your calories. But when you go to the actual cutting, what like the best way to go about it you know to to cut two to three hundred calories for a couple of weeks and then cut another two to three hundred or just go straight five hundred calories into a cut then do like a maintenance week or to go like

a drastic eight hundred cut and then fall back to preserve muscle during the cutting process and is it a good idea also to introduce a bit of cardio in maybe the last week of the cutting before the maintenance to just speed things up a little bit and then just go back to the regular steps no cardio just lifting what is like the best process to do this. David give me an idea of where you're currently, because the great question, and there is a lot of possibilities and answers. I think the way I would decide would be based off of where my metabolic rate is currently, right?

So if I have a lot more room to play with, I can be more, I can use more aggressive types of cuts and bounce it into that. If you are in a place where, you know, like I'd say a guy like your size was only eating say like 2,500 calories a day, I wouldn't want to do that. I'd probably try and keep you closer to like a maintenance and just slowly lean out and cut because of how low you're. So where are your calories at right now? Right now well my maintenance is about I don't know 32, 33 something like that I've been like increasing

calories and right now I'm in a bit of a cut doing the suspension training program so my cutting right now is at about 2500 and I'm steadily losing weight but right now well when I finish a suspension I'm gonna go back to strong and increasing calories again so my guess will be around 3800 or something like that. So yeah, I think I have room to play. You're actually on the right track. Yeah, I don't know if I would change what you're doing. I think what you did is great.

2500 from where you were at 32, that's fine. You're following another different program, you changed the programming. That's great to do when you go into a cut. And then after four weeks of that, reverse diet for a little bit and then go back into a cut. I think you're right on track. All right, and what about the example

for when people cut like 800 or so calories and then just increase them a little bit just to preserve muscle but still being a deficit. Is that like a good idea when I'm doing so high calories? You're advanced enough, you're high enough calories that you could play with that. I'm doing it in my city. Is that like a good idea when I'm doing so high calories or you're you're you're advanced enough. You're high enough calories that you could play

with that and I and I and I think that you're at a level where I think it's totally okay to like have a week where you cut 1500 calories a day and just and let for one week and then see how you feel now what tends to happen and everybody's

different but somebody might do that and they feel like man, I didn't lose any more body fat than I normally do and then on top of that, my energy was really low and I didn't like how I felt in my workouts and so that might be too much or you might actually see like a really great response and you notice, man, I feel good. So, I mean, I would let you play. If you're a client of mine, I'd say, hey, let's do that this week. Let's just go for a week. Let's do a really hard cut for one week. See how you feel afterwards and then we'll get back up to more of a maintenance and run for there for a couple weeks so absolutely run it and see how you feel.

One of the biggest determining factors with this David is how many calories you're currently eating. If I'm working with somebody and their calories are not that high for their size. I can't do that. Then yeah I'm not gonna do I'm not gonna cut more aggressively, it's gonna be a smaller cut. But if your calories are up there, you've got more room to play with. Now why is that?

Well, when you start to get too low, the body is more interested in paring muscle down. That's right. Once things start to get, yeah, once things start to get a bit too low. Now how do you know if you should bump it up a little bit? Like you gave the example, someone cuts down 800 or whatever and then oh I'm going to go up a couple hundred. I like to base that off of performance. One of the good determiners

of whether or not the calories have been cut too much is if you just notice really big drops in performance. It's like you're tired in the gym, you're not recovering, strength starts to decrease. You should notice somewhat of a flattening or maybe a decrease in performance but not a drastic one where you go to the gym you're like oh my god I can't train like I used to at all. That's when I have some people say okay let's let's bump the calories a little. I think they're too much too aggressive for you at the moment. Again that's just based off of performance but the higher somebody's calories are at maintenance for people, for people watching this, meaning the higher

the person's metabolic rate is, the more the cut can, the more of a cut we can do without net without sacrificing muscle. Yeah. And that's what that's exactly. It was my reasoning behind the switching to suspension because all the, all of the other programs as amazing as they are, and as much as I love to lift heavy and probably you all guys can identify with this. I need a bit of a change of pace and maybe not do like such a heavy ass program like strong when I was in a cut. I don't like to miss a lot of performance but I still do want to

lose a little bit of body fat. Yeah bro you're on the right track. Yeah, I literally, I knew you did that for that reason. I think that's a smart strategy. Yeah, I love to do that, right? Because you're not really, like suspension, you're not, oh man, my bench is down by a hundred, you're not even thinking about that.

Exactly, exactly. So it's a great, it's a great mental gain. It's also lower volume, lower intensity than a program like Strong or Advanced. Yeah, smart strategy, bro. You're doing really good. It's the opposite of what the average person would think to do.

Most people think go on an aggressive cut and then increase volume, increase intensity, which is the opposite of what you wanna do if you wanna preserve muscle. So you're, I mean, actually you're doing really amazing. I like your idea though about like, why not have a week where you do really low calorie for one week.

And where that gets an issue, tooth one, Sal said it already, where if do like really low calorie for one week. And the where that gets an issue, two to one, the Sal said it already, where if you were already low calories, I would never tell you that if you like I said you're at 2,500 calories. I would never say hey cut 1,500, that's ridiculous. But because you're at a high enough number, you can do that and still be in a healthy safe place and just don't do it for a long period of time or if other people do is they drop the calories that much and oh they see some good results so they're like oh let me do it for a long period of time or if other people do is they drop the calories that much and oh they see some good results so they're like oh let me do it a second week, a third week, a fourth week, just move out of it but nothing wrong with it. The same thing as when you're bulking right?

Yes. Just don't, as you say, just don't eat like an asshole and that's it. That's right, that's right, same thing. Same as saying. No I think you're on the right path but I would encourage you to kind of play with that. I think it would be good for you to have a week where you just really low calories, even if you do notice a little bit of a poor performance

decrease in the gym, like that's kind of expected from something like that. Just get out of it. Just move out of it after a week. Don't stay in it for extended period of time. Yeah, and actually that's why I also love to run suspension on a car because the decreasing body weight, of of course helps me to run that specific program. So yeah,

no great strategy. I mean, your insight is remarkable, David. You're doing pretty well. I'd like to say it's cause you listened to our podcast. Are you a trainer? Are you a trainer or a coach or is this? No, no, no. I'm not a trainer, not even a coach.

I mean, I coach my wife and my father. My mom has recently started to lift weights because she has a bit of osteopenia and she has been having amazing results. But I'm not a coach. I just love the fitness process. I love it. I've been lifting since I was 14, 15.

And I love to learn from whatever topic I'm interested in. Yeah, you're on. All the things that make a good coach interested in. Yeah, you're on point. All the things that make a good coach, by the way. You're on point. Very intuitive with it, for sure. On point. All right.

Thanks a lot, guys. All right, David. You got it, man. It's been amazing. Yeah, we appreciate your support. Of course. Thank you. He has been with us for a while.

I know him and his name and everything. I know. Yeah, I think it's important to make this point. We've said it before on the show, but it's very important to understand this, that the instinct that people have, which is wrong, is when they go on a cut to increase their workout volume and time and frequency and intensity, because they're like, I want to burn body fat, so now I've got to ramp things up. That's actually the last thing you want to do because the reduction in nutrient

intake, which is a reduction in calories, now has made the recovery and adaptation process more challenging. The last thing you want to do is increase the amount of damage you put on your body. Now someone may be thinking, but I want to burn more calories. The calories you burn while you exercise are inconsequential. Don't worry about it. Your body adapts to that anyway. Don't consider that at all. Think of the stimulus that you're providing through your exercise. And when you're in a cut,

your recovery's already compromised. Don't add more exercise when you do that. I love the strategy of moving to map suspension when you know you're in a cut like that. Just a great part. Great, and it's less about like, oh, building muscle. It's more like the psychological game

that you play with yourself by doing that because it's like, oh, okay, I'm not worried about my bench, I'm not worried about my deadlift, I'm not worried about my squat, I'm doing a program that's so unique and different and so the motivation to stay with it, keep doing it, it's such a smart plan. It's one of the best ones too to reinforce a lot

of stability around your joints and fill a lot of gaps in your training anyway. So it's a, it's a great, I mean, he was so like intuitive with that. Yeah. And, and, and one more point, he mentioned this with the, with the losing, you know, body weight. Uh, there are some strength training exercises that you automatically get better at when you get lighter and that's body weight exercises. So if you're doing map suspension, which is body weight exercises, you get stronger. You actually are able to do more reps, uh, while you're in a cut. Like you can't tell me that's not encouraging.

Our next caller is Anthony from Colorado. What's up, Anthony? How you doing Anthony? What's up, dude? How can we help you? Yeah. Well, one, thanks for having me on. I really respect each of you.

So just thank you so much. Really, really respect y'all. So thank you. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks, man. Um, so I just want to, yeah, my question is really about, so just briefly context, I just completed a maps and anabolic,

about a month ago, been with you guys for about over a year now. And during that time, I, you know, really gained about 10 to 10 to 15 pounds of muscle. Wow. So really So really great work. I extended it out a little bit. And right now, and the way I did it is for I started with phase two, and I did more maintenance calories and then phase three, I did bulking. And then phase one is when I did cutting. And I think I had heard you all recommend that in terms of, so that's the way I chose to go about it. And now that I've ended that I'm doing more of a HIIT so that's the way I chose to go about it. And now that I've ended that,

I'm doing more of a HIIT program for the summer. So I'm very excited and my plan is to go into the athletic performance program starting next month. But this is my question. My question is more about confusion around long-term programming and just what are your recommendations around coordinating nutrition, around bulking and cutting when it comes to long term programming going through the cycles?

I think you don't have to always be in a cut or a bulk. I mean you can run, I mean you look pretty fit. I mean I obviously I can't see all of you but you look like you're a pretty fit guy already and what might serve you is actually to just, you know, if you're always the type where you feel like, oh, I'm either cutting, I'm bulking and you're super focused on the calories, where the calories are, you probably would serve you to run a program or two where you actually take off from that and you go, you know, and I'm just going to eat intuitively, eat when I'm hungry, make whole food choices and see how my body responds. And normally with a client who's as organized as you are

and has been consistent with this cutting, bulking through all these phases and has seen the benefits of doing that, you're the type, especially if you're in a pretty good place, body fat percentage, aesthetically, where you at, you feel good, I would probably do that with you. Say, hey, you know what, Anthony, for this program, let's not cut or bulk.

Let's actually just go through the program, eat intuitively, and then give me your feedback on how you feel, and then we'll assess at the end of the program and see what happens. A lot of times what happens to someone like that, like this, are surprised, like on the results they get, and they weren't even cutting or bulking. They were just listening to their body and eating when they're eating, when they feel like they need to eat and making good choices, and they end up getting as good a shape or better shape just by doing that so I think that would be a good exercise for someone like you because you've already done this enough times to understand what a cool a cut is what a bulk is to see how they benefit you all the different programs I mean you might want to

consider something like that now I mean generally speaking all the programs are performance and or muscle focused. Cutting or bulking in any of them is going to be okay. So long as the training and the programming is appropriate for you in the context of what's going on, just keep in mind when you're to cut, your ability to handle volume and intensity goes down a bit. I think what you did with phase one, two, and three I think was smart because phase three is the highest volume, most intensity type

aspect of that program. And so it's probably wise to not go in a cut or at least an aggressive cut when you're doing that. And then phase one would have been perfect for that. So I think that's a good approach. But ultimately, all things considered, it really doesn't make a big difference. It's all based off of what you want to accomplish.

And I also, Anthony, I think there's a lot of value in you challenging yourself to do the opposite of what you already currently have done too. Because why, and why you hear us always, because people, that's one of the most popular questions. Like, hey, what program should I cut on and which one should I bulk and what face and it's like, well, that it depends. Some people do really well cutting when they're lifting low reps and really heavy.

Other people don't do well at all. They feel like they lose so much strength. It's discouraging. And so I think there's a lot of benefit with you actually doing the complete opposite of what you've already currently done and then you going, oh, you know what? I like that. That actually felt good. I felt I didn't feel like I lost a lot of strength or realizing like oh wow, yeah, I definitely know that I don't like to cut when I'm doing that phase of a program. So, you know where you're kind of at in your journey,

I think there's a lot of value in experimenting and doing the opposite of what you've already currently done and or having a phase or a program where you're just like, Hey, I'm going to, I'm not going to actually cut or bulk. I'm going to just intuitively eat and see how my body responds to that. Got it. I think for me, there's, I've been so disciplined. There's some fear around not counting my calories, not getting the right amount of protein. So that's, that's what I'm noticing more internally about the challenge of the intuitive eating component. So, okay, so even more reason why I would want

to do that with you. Because I can tell you're a fit guy already, you've already done this well, and then it's obvious that that's something that you've been really diligent about. I would want to challenge that. I'd want like, hey, this is our challenge, Anthony. And it doesn't mean that we can't move back and go back to tracking and calculating.

But if I was your coach and we were doing this journey together, that would be my next challenge for you is like, okay, let's run a program and let's challenge ourselves not to track and let's see how you do. I think that would be a good exercise for you to do for your relationship with food and tracking and things. You know, it's a good segue for that, Anthony, is to watch your diet and how it correlates or corresponds to performance in the diet and how it correlates or corresponds to performance

in the gym and how you feel. So when you're working out and you notice drops in performance, okay, I might need to eat a little more or eat more of this macro or that one. Ooh, now I feel better or, Oh, I'm getting a little inflamed and stiff. Okay. What's in my diet? Let me see if I swap this out for that. It's a nice segue away from just counting calories and macros and focusing on aesthetics

It's not perfect, but it's a better It's a nice direction because then you can get more you start to get in tune to More the intuitive approach which is really just based off of how you feel Things like digestion and health and sleep and all that stuff, but performance is either easier to measure, you know strength stamina recovery that kind of stuff Got it. Yeah, and I did do and just following all your your guys easier to measure, you know, strength, stamina, recovery, that kind of stuff. Got it. Yeah. And I did do, and just following all your guys' guidance, I did carb cycling over the program of anabolic as well. How'd you like that? I really enjoyed psychologically but physically as well, having carbs. And then on days where I wasn't exercising, just needed to cut that, but still

keeping protein relatively high throughout the whole process That's great, man. What program are you moving into next? What are you about to do? Is it hit you said it's so much of the anabolic I want to and I'm I feel like the hit program is a really good Transition and doing the athletic performance program a little bit more of I think it's someone more the unilateral power and explosion If I remember it right, is that correct? Yeah, that's not a bad choice at all. Symmetry would be another one that would be good. Yeah, I was thinking symmetry, but yeah, that's cause it's totally like a break

from, from doing all the bilateral movements and then, you know, it's, it's a good change of pace too. That's the one I would like to cut in when I choose to do that. So just to kind of change up your focus completely. Do you have symmetry, Anthony? I don't have symmetry. No, we'll send that to you Awesome. Thank you guys. You got it, man Well, thank you for your time. Everyone is I really again and respect all of you and what you do and I've learned so much

For y'all. So thank you. Thank you. You got it. Thanks for calling him. Yeah good. Yeah I'm glad you asked them more questions because it starts to make sense. Yeah, more insight I mean tell me after he said that does that not strike you as like the client That's exactly what you do with them, right? Look you I could tell that he was you could tell he was fit like I tell he's really fit So it's not like we need to probably move anywhere body fat percentage wise Yeah, and then the way he was so diligent about cutting and bulking in this and that's where his question was going It's like, you know what sounds to me what you probably should do is neither one do is neither one. Yeah, run through it run through a program where you intuitively eat

You know, it's funny about clients that I've done this with too Many times they end up getting the best results By letting go. Oh, yeah, you know, which by the way, that's not for everybody No saying that for everybody. We're seeing to be diligent. Yes That's not for everybody. I'm not saying that for everybody. Most people are always diligent. Yes, most people. But when somebody has gone to this level

and has figured this out, one of the best things to do is to actually get them to let go a little bit and just listen to their body. Yeah, and to, like you said, when you feel inflamed, reduce calories or have a fast day in the middle of your training. Who cares? Then go back.

So I think that he would benefit from doing that. Our next caller is Avery from Texas. What's up, Avery? What's going on, who cares? You know what I'm saying? And then go back and then, so I think that he would benefit from doing that. Our next caller is Avery from Texas. What's up Avery? What's going on Avery? How can we help you? Hey guys, doing well. It's an honor to be here. Really appreciative of everything that you've done for me

as I begin my career as a personal trainer within the last four to six months or so. Question I have for you guys here today, I'm a 28 year old male, 6'4", 201 pounds and according to an in-body, about 5 to 6% body fat. I'm an Adizone and Mindpump certified trainer who believes that I'm in the best shape of my life, but I wanted to take my training results to the next level. And after listening to your content for a couple of years now, I decided to work with

Transcend to optimize muscle growth recovery for some upcoming volume increases in my training. I'm one week into peptide therapy, currently taking BPC 157, IGF-1, and Tessamorlin. Prior to beginning those peptides, however, I did work with Transcend to review my blood work markers and was surprised to see that my testosterone results were pretty low, thinking I was doing everything right and feeling good, when in reality, didn't seem like that was the case. Testosterone, or excuse me,

my total testosterone was 160 and my free testosterone was 4.4. So pretty much in the floor from what I thought was ideal about 800 to 1200. But again, from my vantage point, I was doing just about everything right to optimize my health, trying to practice what I preach with my clients, eating a whole food diet, high in protein, easily eating 300 grams of protein a day, averaging about seven and a half hours of sleep per night. Stress levels are low. Outside of just the fact that I wanted to put pressure on myself to perform my new career. I do all the small things right as well. I

mean, listening to you guys have Juve Red Light Therapy, Cold Plunge, sauna. The one area that I feel like I could improve, but again, listening to my body is with some potential over training. So currently right now I strength train three times per week, cycling through maps program, currently in phase two of symmetry. And within the last month or so I have increased my cardio simply for the fact that I'm training for a marathon, not because I enjoy running but simply for the ability that I'm training for a marathon not because I enjoy running but simply for the ability to kind of that mental toughness

So right now what that looks like is one long run a week roughly 10 to 15 miles and then two shorter runs Somewhere between three to six miles for each of those. So try not to exceed 25 to 30 miles within the week So trying not to exceed 25 to 30 miles within the week. After reviewing those testosterone results with my wellness specialist with Transcend, they recommended in Clomaphene and HCG to improve my testosterone levels. But before proceeding with that, I wanted to touch base with you guys, knowing you're the experts and kind of dive into maybe recommendations that you have for me to get those levels up. Avery, how do you feel? I feel great.

Okay. Yeah, my performance in the gym has been good. Seeing some strength gains again, sleep's good. If I feel that I need a recovery day, I'll take it or even a full week. So I'm not afraid to kind of scale back if needed. Any symptoms of low testosterone like low libido drive motivation? No, we're roaring there. Wow, okay. You know what's interesting about this, so lots of things affect libido. Do you think Sal, this could happen? Do you think it's possible? When did you like,

he like test after like a day where he ran really like this? It's really low. 160 is really low. But then I know it is. 160 is really low. But you don't think it could affect like his timing? Even if it was half, right? Then you would have been at 320, which is still up the cusp. But you don't have any signs of low testosterone, which is interesting to me.

Now there's a lot of factors that can affect things like libido and drive, not just testosterone. Although typically, generally you will see a crushed libido with drive, not just testosterone. Although typically, generally you will see a crushed libido with a 160 total or 4.4 free testosterone. Any changes from now and how you feel versus let's say when you were 15, 16 years old? No, not that I can think of. Again, my strength and performance in the gym

has been really good. Energy throughout the day is good. I'm not dragging. The only thing that just doing some research, my carbon takes pretty low, um, like less than 200 grams and I'm getting well over 300 grams of protein. I don't know if that's going to impact things much at all. There's also, there's also androgen receptor density, which varies from individual to individual where someone with lower testosterone

could have the testosterone could be far more effective in that person because of the androgen receptor density that they have. Nonetheless, here's the deal. It's good that you don't have any signs of low testosterone so that's very promising but a number that low is pretty outside the range. I think 300 is the lowest before even a general practitioner will say, hey you know something's going on. You should also get your fertility tested just to see if there's anything going on there. But here's what I would do if I were you. And it's good that you feel good. What it makes me think is you could feel a lot better. So however good you feel now, there's five

years above that that you could probably reach with a more optimal testosterone. First thing I would do is not do the marathon. I would not do the marathon and I would get my body fat up. Low body fat in men can crush testosterone. That's pretty predictable. 5% body fat is really low.

I would get your, 10% is still lean. 10% still you got six pack. I would bump my calories and get my body fat percentage up. I would cut all the running and cardio out completely. I would focus just on the strength training and then in clomaphen and HCG both send a signal the body to produce more testosterone on its own. Now it is an external signal So the risk is when you go off you just drop back down to where you were before And it depends on the individual in terms of how how it affects them how how effective it is

But in clomophene it binds to the estrogen receptor. Okay, so people like what's that to do with testosterone when the man's body Detects low estrogen, which is what it'll detect which isn't the case receptor, okay, so people are like, what's that to do with testosterone? When a man's body detects low estrogen, which is what it'll detect, which isn't the case, but by blocking the estrogen receptor, your body thinks it's not producing enough estrogen. And one of the ways that it offsets that is it raises its testosterone because the way a man's body makes testosterone is it takes testosterone and converts it to estrogen. And then HCG mimics a hormone called luteinizing hormone. Luteinizing hormone tells your testes to make more testosterone. So that combination will get your body to naturally produce more testosterone. And then what the goal is, once they measure your blood again, they're

like, oh cool, we got you up to whatever 700, 800, who knows how well you respond. Then what they'll do is they'll say, okay, we're gonna take you off and then we'll test you again to see if you're able to maintain these higher levels. And there's some decent success rate with that, anecdotally, from people I've talked to. And oftentimes you'll see a raise in improvement in fertility and testosterone levels that stick.

If it drops down again, back down to 160, then I would talk to them again about what's going on and start working specifically with a hormone specialist to see if this is even something you should work on at your age but I do think for sure regardless of where your testosterone is at that maintaining 5% body fat and training for I don't care who you are if you're if you're a man and you train for a marathon you will see a drop in testosterone. It's pretty consistent, okay? Unless you went from shit health to good health, in which case you may see an increase, but

typically you'll see a drop. So I would not do the marathon and I would bump my calories and your goal is, yes, to get stronger, but your goal really is to get your body fat up. It's so low, it's pretty hard to find a man to 5% body fat with optimal testosterone levels unless they're supplementing exogenous. Not that low. Once you get below 6, like you're definitely in that area. Oh below 8 typically you see a drop. Yeah and those body fat percentage results come from an in-body so that electrical and peon scale. I do have obviously some

hesitations on the accuracy there. I sent in a picture after the fact, I don't know if you guys were able to see that. I feel I'm not that low, I feel like I'm probably closer to eight or nine just knowing what. You got abs? Depending on the day I guess. Yeah, I would still get the body fat. You have the pic done?

Yeah, I don't think he does. I would still get the body fat up and cut the marathon training in combination with what they recommended. Go through that process and then see what happens. And then see how you feel. So when they test you, you're like, wow, your testosterone is quadrupled. Do I notice a difference?

Do I feel any different? Do I feel any better? What you'll probably feel going from 160 to 500, 600, 700 or above is a very, if your libido is okay now at 160, it's going to go through the roof. If your energy is good now at 160, it's going to go through the roof. If your recovery is okay now, it's going to go through the roof. It's probably what you'll notice. By the way, I was like that.

I didn't notice a difference until I went on testosterone replacement. I tested a 260 something, not that much higher than you, and my libido was okay. So I didn't really a difference until I went on testosterone replacement. I tested a two 60 something, not that much higher than you. And my libido was okay. So I didn't really know I should get tested. I thought I was all right when I went on replacement. And of course I'm much older than you. Um, when I went on replacement, it was like, Oh, wow, this is very different. Okay.

I could tell, but had you asked me then if I thought I had low testosterone, I would have said no. And then, um, as I bumped my calories up and knock out the running, how long would you say I wait until retesting to ideally see those levels come back up to a more reasonable number? They'll probably have you do something like 60 days, something like that, 30, 60 days before retesting. Uh, but you need to talk to them to see what they recommend on the protocol.

And I'm about at 33, 3500 calories roughly, where you just do like a three to 500 calorie bump up. Yep, yep, that sounds good. At least that. For sure. Yeah. Okay. Appreciate it fellas.

You got it man. Yeah. Hey, keep us posted, Avery, I wanna get out. Yeah, actually, I would love a follow-up. Yeah, yeah, I wanna know what happens. Yeah, cause I was, I mean, like I said, I felt so good and to see that number was just pretty demoralizing.

You know, and I would talk to them too and say, is there any potential that there's a mistake in this test? Because I mean, it's so rare to have that number of a test. 160 is lower than what you would see, I think, an 80-year-old. So it's so rare to feel fine with libido and energy and to be that low. So I would even call him.

That's why I was wondering, like, the timing of his test. It'd be like, yeah, should I just do another test just to see what's going on? And then I would also check fertility just to be sure, especially if you plan on being a father one day. I mean, nonetheless, though, increasing body fat and pumping calories and reducing the marathon run stuff should help, will be a positive thing no matter what.

And it's worth experimenting with that anyways, even if the test was awful or whatever. I think that, and then see what happens from there. But I agree, I think it seems so low to not have any symptoms. Although I do remember when Sal was the same way too. If you would have asked him, he would have swore up and down that his, he was super healthy, felt really good, testosterone was totally fine,

and then he took that test and realized how low he was. So you could just have adapted to that level. And I'll tell you, having my testosterone's in the upper limit now, very different than how I felt before. I thought I felt good before, but it's a whole different ballgame. And what's the estrogen marker that I would have

reviewed in my... is it the estradiol? Yeah. That was 18.6 if that means anything to you, which they shared that was high compared to where my testosterone was. But the ratio wasn't good. But that's testosterone solo. Mm-hmm Got it. Okay Thank you fellas You got all the information that you put out and you really helped me to be successful here in the first few months of my My new careers are trainer. Oh, that's great brother. Glad you're in the coaching program Avery. Yeah, I loved it I flew through it took me just a week or two. Oh beautiful and Definitely let us know what happens. I can't wait to hear what happens with you.

We'll see you in there. Thanks, fellas. Much love. All right, brother. That's not typical. Yeah, so it's weird. You don't think it's possible to have been like, done his 15-mile run and then tested the next day,

and it didn't crash that much? It's possible. Because it's really rare. He's pretty low calorie too. You know, consider he's a six, four, 200 pound guy training and running. Yeah. Uh, 3,200 calories. What he said. So with that 35, yeah, that's not, and, and that low of, of body fat percentage, that's, that's a pretty low calorie, uh, calorie for him. Um,

I don't know, low calories. I wonder if, uh, he's higher than that because those in body especially leaner you get Yeah, I mean you'll know if he's 5% is you could tell Yeah, someone's 5% there's a look but even if he is though like like let's say it's off and he's like 7 or 8 Or 9 still to still look like so no matter what I mean It's not that far off those things those things can be skewed, but they're not skewed 5 6% You know I'm saying well the leaner you are, the more that that's possible. To go from five to 10% on that scale,

it's not that much body fat. It's not that much. Think about it this way, you're 200 pounds, 10% body fat, it means you have 20 pounds of body fat. If you have 5% body fat, it's 10. And those scans can be off quite a bit. Being fully hydrated or dehydrated. It's not like when you're 20%, you know,

actually the higher you go, the more it gets off too. But yeah, it's weird to be that low if that's consistently where he's at and to be like, yeah, I got a good libido. That almost never, I mean, like I said, that was me. Yeah, I would test it a few times. But when I went on TRT, and the reason why I went on TRT was mine was really low

and I was also 40, but when I went on TRT, my libido was a whole nother ball game. It was a whole nother ball game. So. Yeah. Next caller is Letitia from Pennsylvania. Hi Letitia. Hi. How can we help you?

Um, so I just have a question. I've been kind of looking at some of you guys's programs lately, trying to figure out, um, what would be the best fit for me. A little bit of a backstory, I've been pretty involved in fitness for, I don't know, a really long time, at least like 10 years. I've done bodybuilding and then after I got tired of bodybuilding, I did powerlifting for a long time and then I did CrossFit. And then I kind of took a step back from exercise because I wanted to get pregnant. So I had a baby, I'm 16 months postpartum and I've kind of just been doing a bunch of random

like CrossFit style workouts and walking a ton, probably like 18,000 to 20,000 steps a day. I kind of just like dove headfirst back into fitness and I lost a ton of weight. I'm very, very lean right now, probably like, I don't know, 14% body fat. Anyways, I just want to do less and I want to build some muscle and kind of get out of this mental thing of needing to do so much movement all the time. Um, but I don't really know where to go from here because it feels a little. The cortisol high feels a little bit addictive. And every time I try to scale back, I get scared and I keep going.

Good awareness. Are you, are you, um, you're not breastfeeding anymore? I'm not. Okay. I did, but I'm not anymore. Okay. And did you get, are you getting a regular period? Um, no. Okay. I did, but I'm not anymore. Okay. And are you getting a regular period? No. Okay. Okay. So you're just laughing out. I mean, I already thought, I already

know what's happening, but I wanted to ask that just kind of cherry on top. You're definitely overtrained in under eating. And I know in your email, you sent us, you're saying that you're eating around 2000 calories a day most days. So you're pushing your body, and right now it's in survival mode, which is why you get that wired energy that you feel. But what follows if you keep pushing down this path is going to be a massive crash that's hard to come out of. And that looks like depression,

it looks like I'm so fatigued, irritability, hair starts to fall out. It's weight gain, all kinds of stuff. Weight gain, a lot of things. And that's where you're going around. The road that you're on right now leads to this terrible place that's really hard to come out of. So we want to get out of this before you hit that because once you hit that and then you got to climb out of a hole, you're a little bit of a hole now but we can we can do this but we're gonna have to reduce your activity dramatically and feed your body.

And the best thing that you can aim for right now is just strength in the gym. That's gonna be one of the best metrics that's gonna tell you if you're doing everything right. It's- Anabolic and walking. That's it. Anabolic and walking.

Maps anabolic, walking, 18 to 20,000 steps is a lot, but okay, if you wanna keep that up, I would like to see it more like around maybe 15 at the most. Well, it's gonna drop, because you're not allowing her to run anymore. She ran four to six miles, so if you cut out the running, she should reduce that. Oh yeah, that's it.

MAPS anabolic, no running, and let's reverse diet you. Now, the last part of your email is, I'm not sure how my body will respond. Well, I'll tell you what's gonna happen. You're gonna get stronger, you're gonna gain a little bit of body fat, which you need to. 14% is too low to maintain. You're gonna get your period back and you're gonna feel way better than you feel right now is what's gonna happen. Here's what's gonna get in your way. Uh-oh I'm gaining weight on the scale. Uh-oh I'm still right now. I need to do

something. What do I need to do to keep myself busy? Uh oh, I'm afraid. What's going to happen? So those are the demons that are going to challenge you as you do this, but if you stay on the path, you're going to come out great. What I'd like to do for you is I'd like Doug to send over maps and a BOLIC if you don't have that already, which I don't think you do. We'll get you started on that. The walking recommendation when you feel the need, I need to do something We'll get you started on that. The walking recommendation when you feel the need, I need to do something, go for a walk, that's fine. Or even better, if you can discipline yourself to do yoga or mobility and stretch, that would be great. And then I want Doug to put you

in our private forum also so we can keep an eye on you. So if you just check in with us and let us know how the process is going, because the hardest part of this will be the mental struggle. It won't be physically what you're capable of doing. It'll be more can you stick with it through this process because you do need to see it all the way through otherwise your body will get louder. It'll start to talk to you even more. Yeah. Now, one more thing that might help you when you're doing this because it's going to be tough because this is an addictive cycle. It's not that unlike other addictive cycles that we can get into.

With any addictive cycle, when you initially break it, there is a withdrawal. So what you may notice initially for the first few weeks or month is an eruption of symptoms. What am I going to do with myself? I'm a little more anxious. I'm angry. I need to do something. So it's going to be more challenging before it becomes better. But then as you start to heal, as your body gets stronger, as your hormones start to get more in balance, you start to feel good, then it's going to be a lot easier. So you're gonna have to kind of tough it out for the first, I would say, 14 to 30 days. And just keep that in mind. And the reason why I'm telling you this,

I'm trying to let you know ahead of time so that when it happens, you can remember this conversation, you can say, okay, Sal said this is gonna happen, so I just gotta tough it out. Well, and hopefully you take advantage of the free forum that I wanna give you too, and just stay in contact with us so we can be there to help support through this process, just checking in with us.

Maybe that accountability piece will help help you get through it. Yes, that support's gonna be important. We got this. Okay guys, thank you. Okay. Leticia, real quick. You kind of knew what we were gonna say, didn't you? I've listened to a lot, yeah.

Yeah. How do you feel right now? It's already what I knew, what I knew you guys were gonna say I just kind of was hoping that you could give me a pointer for like which program to follow maybe so hopefully maps anabolic will be a good fit for me and I'll be able to just Relax more sleep more and take some more rest Well, it will be a good program for you

but the hard part because you've already mentioned, like you gravitate towards this kind of crossfit type of. Don't overdo the trigger sessions, that's one. Anything that can get your heart rate spiked, yeah. Yeah, and so, and this is the opposite, which by the way, and this is why I hope we check, you check in with us and I can talk to you, is that one of the hardest parts will be resting

between the sets in this program. And with where we're at currently in your goals, you can't rest too long, okay? You can only rest too little. So you have to have that, you have to be almost competitive with yourself of like three minute rest between every set. Let yourself rest between every single set and that heart rate come all the way back down.

If you fall in love with the strength gains, that'll help you a lot. Because then you'll you got something to look forward to for sure. Are you scared? Um a little bit. Yeah okay that's good. We're with you. Yeah that's good. I mean that's you're supposed to. This is a big change so I get where you're at. Worked with a lot of people like you. I think you could totally do this. You could totally do this.

You just got to go through that scary part. Yeah thank you. Okay we're gonna get you set up. We'll see you in the forum. You could totally do this. You could totally do this. You just got to go through that scary part. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. We're going to get you set up. We'll see you in the forum. All righty. Thank you guys.

Thank you. What do you guys think? I know. Over under? I don't know. I don't know. I think she's like, she's like, fuck, you know, I know, I know I'm supposed to do that. I mean, we'll know right away if she checks in with us.

I mean, that's how you know if someone's going to fall. This is what, see, listen, for people listening listening right now like this is the real value of working with a trainer or coach. A coach is a guide because you run into these challenges. You are gonna stumble. You are gonna fall. You are gonna find yourself in these places where you don't want to do the right thing and if you know it's the right thing to do you don't want to do it or you're gonna run to places where you don't know what to do. And to have an experienced wise guide there that can predict what's gonna happen, that can coach you through those run into places where you don't know what to do. And to have an experienced, wise guide there

that can predict what's gonna happen, that can coach you through those tough spots, I mean, it's life-changing. And so, I hope she's listening to us, and if it's feasible, hire a coach, they can help you. She could use some accountability in terms of just somebody reassuring her. Well, and for the coaches and trainers,

like this is a great example of the type of stuff that we teach in our coaching program, right? This is something that you're not going to pick up with an NASM certification or a course like that is teaching coaches and trainers how to do exactly that. How to forecast for that client the potential pitfalls and the challenges that she may come up with. Because if you don't and that hits them and it blindsides them, boy, it's really hard to get them to push through that. I don't care how good-

They derail the whole program. Yeah. I don't care how good of a trainer you think you are. If you don't learn that skill to be able to do that with your people, you lose these ones a lot. They're more there, but it's real easy to take somebody who loves to work out, healthy, balanced, everything's all aligned, and you just gotta guide them and work them out and keep them going. Like that's- One out of 100.

Exactly, that's not the norm. That normally people have these different challenges and learning how to communicate to those people is paramount to the success of the client and you as a coach. And so this is the type of stuff that we dive into in the course. Yeah, look, we have a lot of free guides that we offer our audience

to help them with a lot of different fitness goals. We have one it's three steps for fat loss only three steps the most effective ones it's free it's at mindpumpfree.com you can also find us on Instagram Justin is at mind pump Justin I'm at mind pump to Stefano and Adam is at mind pump Adam. Thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin

to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com.

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