Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2414: Cardio Vs. Weight Training for Fat Loss, How to Build Muscle as a Runner, Enclomiphene Vs TRT & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: August 31, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Here’s the truth about the carnivore diet when it comes to building muscle and burning body fat. (2:14) The motivation behind the podcast. (12:34) Changing the narrative around sodium. (18:57) Another study proves what the guys have been touting for years. (23:21) Yet another groundbreaking study on GLP-1s. (29:50) How we have gotten foot anatomy and function all wrong! (36:16) What percentage in each state owns guns? (53:39) Shout out to Sal on Bradley Martyn’s Raw Talk podcast. (57:40) #ListenerLive question #1 – Overall I feel better and think I look better, but I’m concerned about weight gain. I’m I in a good place? Should I be concerned? (59:29) #ListenerLive question #2 – How should my programming look now when dealing with the stress of an upcoming wedding? (1:11:39) #ListenerLive question #3 – Is the fitness industry soft, in the sense that trainers are supposed to be coddling a little bit more and having that participation ribbon mentally? Or is it a personal growth thing for myself where I can find a happy medium between the two? (1:23:07) #ListenerLive question #4 – What is the best way to incorporate strength training if I want to continue practicing Jiu-Jitsu? (1:39:04) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Get your free Sample Pack with any “drink mix” purchase! Also try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water: Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump Visit Xero Shoes for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Enter to win one of FIVE FREE pairs of Xero Shoes! ** Special Launch Promotion: MAPS GLP-1 ** Code: GLP70 for $70 OFF. Includes: Ultimate Medication Guide for Patients & Healthcare Professionals & Intuitive Nutrition Guide. ** August Promotion: MAPS Bands | MAPS 40+ 50% off! ** Code AUGUST50 at checkout ** MP Holistic Health Mind Pump #987: The Ketogenic Diet is Making You Fat Mind Pump #2212: The Value of a “Dirty Bulk” Weight-loss success depends on eating more protein, fiber while limiting calories The ONLY Way You Should Be Doing Dumbbell Bicep Curls! Tirzepatide reduced the risk of developing type 2 diabetes by 94% in adults with pre-diabetes and obesity or overweight Mind Pump #2410: How to Maximize Fat Loss & Preserve Muscle on GLP-1s (Introducing MAPS GLP-1) Justin Holiday | Xero Shoes The Truth About Ozempic For Fat Loss – Bradley Martyn’s Raw Talk Visit Butcher Box for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer!  ** Choose from filet mignons, ribeye’s, or NY strips, FREE in every box for a year. Use our code and receive an additional $20 off. ** Mind Pump # 2320: Throw Away the Scale! How Phasing Your Workouts Leads to Consistent Plateau Free Workouts Mind Pump # 1715: Ten Mistakes Fitness Trainers Make Mind Pump # 2262: Six Reasons Trainers Fail Mind Pump # 2390: Should You Become a Personal Trainer? Mind Pump # 2312: Five Steps to Bounce Back From Overtraining TRANSCEND your goals! Telehealth Provider • Physician Directed GET YOUR PERSONALIZED TREATMENT PLAN! Hormone Replacement Therapy, Cognitive Function, Sleep & Fatigue, Athletic Performance and MORE. Their online process and medical experts make it simple to find out what’s right for you. Mind Pump # 1525: The Death of the Gym Industry?: A Reality Check With UFC Gym CEO Adam Sedlack Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Jordan B. Peterson (@JordanBPeterson) Twitter Mikhaila Peterson (@mikhailapeterson) Instagram Robb Wolf (@dasrobbwolf) Instagram Justin Brink DC (@dr.justinbrink) Instagram Bradley Martyn (@bradleymartyn) Instagram Adam Sedlack (@ufcgymperez)  Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind there's only one place to go Mind pump with your hosts Sal DeStefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is mind pump right in today's episode We talked to people on air live. They called in we got to coach them and help them out with their fitness But this was after the intro portion today was 58 minutes long. By the way if you want to be on an episode like this one email us at live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors the first one is LMNT we talked about them today this is electrolyte powder done

right it's the best it's the best in the world in fact it has set forth a new trend in the way people view sodium Go check them out go to drink LMNT com forward slash mind pump and on that link You'll get a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase This episode is also brought to you by zero shoes. These are high performance athletic shoes designed The way your feet are supposed to move they They actually help you move better. Better mobility, better strength, starting at the beginning of the kinetic chain, your feet and they also look good. Go check them out and if you go on our link zero shoes dot com forward slash mind pump, zero spelled with an X, you can

enter to win one of five free pairs of zero shoes. They give them away all the time. Also only two days left for our brand new program Maps GLP-1. If you're on a GLP-1 or thinking about getting on a GLP-1, follow this program. It was written specifically for you and it's got dietary recommendations, supplement recommendations like this is the only program of its kind. Don't lose muscle while on a GLP-1. Actually build and speed up your metabolism. If you're interested because it's the launch you go to mapsglp1.com and use the code GLP-70 you'll get $70 off the retail price and we're gonna include two free ebooks, the ultimate medication guide for patients and healthcare practitioners covering

all the longevity peptides that are out there, and the intuitive nutrition guide that'll also be included for free. So two free e-books, $70 off, mapsglp1.com, using the code GLP70. All right, here comes the show. Here's the truth about the carnivore diet when it comes to building muscle and burning body fat. Some of you may actually find this shocking.

Most will not. It's a terrible diet for building muscle and burning body fat. It's not great at all. Now just because you can only eat meat and survive is not a reason why you should do so. Now in some cases this may actually be a diet that's helpful but in most cases it is not. So unless you're directed by a functional medicine practitioner or you have a serious situation in which this is the only route to go, avoid going carnivore. I remember when we were in the first studio, right? Yeah, we were in the first studio and the

ketogenic diet was taking off. People were naming their podcast the keto diet and all these things like that because it was the poppin trend to do. The keto kid. We went to the, what was the paleo expo or whatever. Paleo FX. Paleo FX. We went to the, what was the Paleo Expo or whatever? Paleo FX. Paleo FX. We went to that. Everything was keto and blue blockers. That was the thing back then.

And I remember the knee jerk reaction is me to kind of like shit on the whole idea. You know what? I should go through it. I should do this diet for a while and experience what it's like being on it. And I remember we all decided to eventually do it. And I happened to be at that time,

I had just came out of competing. And so I was, you know, my metabolism, it's kind of like where you're at right now, metabolism's roaring, I could just eat anything. I'm eating probably 4,000 calories plus a day. And I could not, for the life of me, eat enough meat to hit my clork and take. It was just so difficult.

And all I could think about was just like, man, I get the gut issues and the elimination diet reasoning behind this. But for a strategy to build muscle, this has to be challenging for a lot of people and not a good idea. No, it's not. First, let's talk about who this may be okay for.

I think in some cases, the people that you find, Jordan Peterson's a good example of this, so is his daughter, right? You may find a situation, not common by this, it's not common, but you may find a situation where a person's so reactive to so many different foods that going down to one of the most nutrient dense and also simultaneously least likely

to cause an immune reaction foods. Bioavailable foods. Which is meat. So meat is, meat in particular, if you were to look at a list of foods that could cause immune type reactions, meat is at the bottom. It's also simultaneously very nutrient dense,

which means you can get away. You can get away with just eating meat. If you had to pick one food to do a one year challenge, that would be it. Nothing else would qualify. Everything else would cause nutrient deficiencies and death, meat, unlikely to get a nutrient deficiency and you could survive. That doesn't make it ideal.

So in that situation I could see, like we know, we know Michaela Peterson, we've interviewed Jordan Peterson until they can figure out, which until now they're not able to, figure out why their body is so reactive to everything, then this seems to be a good option. In that case, this is the healthier option. This is what's optimizing their health. Now for the average person, this is a terrible idea.

You're not going to perform, and there's, I don't even, I can't even believe I have to say this, but all the data shows this. You're not going to perform, and I can't even believe I have to say this, but all the data shows this. You're not going to maximize your performance. You're not going to be able to eat enough calories to build muscles. It's so satiating to eat just meat every single day. You don't have enough fiber in your diet. And I know the carnivore people tried to debate whether it's not true.

Look, data shows fiber has got some real um health benefits It's also not realistic from a lifestyle perspective unless again You're that individual like mckayla peterson where you are in such hell that this is realistic because you never want to go back Um, but it's taking the world by storm and i'll tell you exactly why it's taken not the world But the fitness space by storm for a while. I'll tell you exactly why this is a very It's a very predictable pattern with trendy diets. Yes. The opposite of the vegan diet. I mean, it really is the opposition of that. So you'll see people jump from a vegan or vegetarian and

then like go all the way the other direction to carnivore. It really is though, like something like it highlights to me too why people like will be on it and they'll feel this great energy, this great effect from it and a lot of times all these underlying autoimmune issues that they're not dealing with their gut issues which I think is is a lot more than people realize in terms of the population. Like I think the high majority of people do have something that they're not addressing.

So it's actually kind of go through and use it as an elimination diet or kind of work your way back and solve it. I think that there's a valid case for that. But yeah, even just anecdotally myself going through it and finding out, yes, I did have, I do have some things I'm definitely dealing with gut wise, but my performance was flat. My energy was just flat. And it was really

exhausting given month one, then month two of just like just constant meat to eat, which was just, it was hard to do. It's the Republican diet. And the Democrat diet is the vegan diet. That's what it is. I mean, diets have become so political. It's so weird. I literally think that. That's so true and so weird.

Yeah, sure. And to your point that we had, you know, hey, the liberals, the vegans had a run for a while there. And then the Republicans had to come up with their diet to argue and fight that side. And it's what we're seeing. It literally is like that. And it's literally the irony too.

It's like the same type of hate and anger towards each other and this person's so right. It's like, oh my God, the reality is most people are somewhere in the middle of this. They really are. But everybody wants to divide. It's like you, you're either this, you're either left or right. It's like, well, no, I'm probably somewhere in the middle because I agree with some of the things these people think and say, I agree with some of the things that these people think and say. And the truth is the same applies in the diet world. Like you guys,

most policies are like, you know, cruciferous vegetables. You know, like the rest of it is more like, you know, steak. You know, I remember in the 90s, you know, being in fitness in the 90s, up until the point that I'm about to describe, the prevailing, I guess, wisdom or prevailing understanding of diet, especially when it came to losing body fat, was low fat. That's what everybody promoted.

It was low fat, the government promoted everybody promoted. It was low fat. The government promoted it. Fat was bad for you. Now we know, decades later, that's not true. But back then, that was the message. If you want to lose weight, you got to cut your fat. Too much fat will make you fat. If you want to improve your health, cut out your fat.

So the market responded by creating low fat products. Every diet was a variety or version of a low fat type diet. And then, you know, Dr. Atkins comes out with his book called The Atkins Diet. And the reason why it exploded, the reason why it completely exploded was because- It was the opposite.

It was the opposite message. So that already makes people go, huh, this guy says I can eat as much fat as I want. I thought fat was evil and bad. What the hell's going on? And then it caused weight loss because it was a low calorie diet. All the diets that make you lose weight are low calorie.

So then people were like, it sounds crazy, but I did it. And I did eat as much fat as I want. I just had to avoid all carbs and I lost weight. And so it literally exploded as the supposing. So if you're looking to do a trendy diet, if you want to sell a diet in the diet space and make it trendy, one of the key ways to do it is to go,

is to go against everybody else, or to sound like you're going against everyone else, but of course it has to be low calorie. And then people will buy it and they'll buy it. And you're right, carnivore came out because vegan became political, it became a thing, it became righteous you're right. Carnivore came out because vegan became political, became a thing. It became righteous and moral and this, that, and the other saved the environment. And so you had the other side go, well, I'll just kill more animals.

That's interesting you say that. Yeah. Cause, uh, you know how there's just been this active push against sugar. Like, I mean, sugar is like, you know, uh, enemy number one now in terms of all like health wellness people out there. And it's like, I could see like a somebody, yeah, like the cookie diet was there for a minute. But you know, it's yeah, it's totally just like that's in trends. It's so like that even to the point to like the advice I give and what you see with people, like we see in politics the identity politics game like Forget attacking one of these presidential camp candidates for their policies or the things that they do in government

Let's attack their character is just like the same thing I feel is in is with these diets like people like praise these these characters that represent these diets Versus like well these characters that represent these diets versus like, well, let's dive into like exactly why that diet makes you feel good or doesn't feel good and maybe figure those things out. It's like the same thing. It's like literally the same thing. And if we were to play this game a little bit longer.

Yeah, let's do this. Okay, if we were to play this a little bit longer and do, like, what's the libertarian diet? Is that fasting? Are fasters the libertarians of diet? Yeah, coffee. It's a little anarchy. Yeah, coffee, fasting, and then bacon and nine millimeter

shells. Yeah, lots of bacon and coffee. Guns. Yeah, I like the bacon and coffee guy. Freedom guns. Yeah, freedom guns. Who knows? I mean, it's, I don't know.

The diet space has always been crazy. I could have predicted this, although I don't think, I never thought people would go for it. Oh, I don't think, I never thought people would go far. Oh, I didn't think it was gonna get this crazy political. I did not think as a trainer in my early career I would have forecasted, yeah, diets are gonna become up there with religion and politics to not discuss at the dinner table.

And it has, it literally has been. And medical procedures. Well, you know what it is, is when you do a diet and it changes your life, it becomes your religion, it becomes your belief system. And anybody telling you otherwise is denying your personal experience, right? So I'll give you an example. I've brought it up before because I think it's a great example.

My great grandfather, he died at 91. So remember, that's not my grandfather, my great grandfather, so that's a different generation. He smoked cigarettes from nine years old, I believe, up until the day he died. The way he smoked, I remember this as a little kid, he would light the cigarette in his mouth, he would light another cigarette with that. So he would never stop, it was constant.

And the only time he didn't smoke was when he was eating dinner, and right after he was done, he'd light back up. He would smoke in bed while he was trying to sleep. He almost set himself on fire a couple of times. So he smoked so much. So if I told him cigarettes are bad for you, it's like I'm denying his personal experience. What are you talking about?

I'm 85 years old. I still go out in the backyard and work on my trees and stuff. You're crazy. So when you're telling somebody who did a carnivore diet for whatever reason, for whatever reason, it's making them feel better than they were, they're gonna fight you tooth and nail over it. But the truth is, it's not a great diet.

We definitely do need balance. And just because you can get away with doing something doesn't mean, but what's funny to me too with the carnivore is vegans are the same thing. There's extreme veganism where it's like, if it comes from any animal, any way, shape or form, it's wrong, and then they're kind of like making concessions like, well.

So they can't wear leather either. Yeah. This is like, oh, this is what I find is always funny. They roll up in their, look at your shoes. Their leather seats in their car. Look at your wallet. Well, I mean, car. Look at your belt, look at your wallet. Well, I mean, it could go so far as that some vegans wouldn't even eat honey because insects make it, right?

So they'll go so far, but then there's some concessions like, well, I'll do milk. That's okay because I need the proteins, I need the milk. Oh, well, you know, I'll do eggs or I'll do, you see this with the carnivores. You get the extreme carnivores like only meat. And then you got the other people who are like, well, I want to do some honey.

Honey's fine, that's from an animal. So we can kind of do that. And then you go, oh, well, I like to throw fruit in because it doesn't have some of the reactive. But not the icky vegetables. That's why I'm on board. But if you're trying to, I mean, if you go on a carnivore diet, you will lose weight,

but that's because your calories go real low. Which is that's the same formula for every diet. every diet. You'll lose water and all that stuff. That's why the cabbage diet, the pizza diet, they all existed at one point too. It's just like you could eat one slice of pizza a day and you'll lose weight. I'd say the craziest diet that I ever followed was just my I want to get big at any cost teenage boy diet. That was when I was... Yeah. That didn't even have a name. It was just eat every bulk. Eat anything and everything. I remember when I was young when I was... Oh yeah. That didn't even have a name. It was just eat every bulk. Dirty, dirty.

Eat anything and everything inside. I remember when I was young when I figured this out, right, because I was reading all the bodybuilding magazines, when I realized that, oh, it's about protein, then what I would do is I would look at foods and I would look at, oh, if I ate, this literally is my rationale, if I eat a pound of pasta, that's 30 grams of protein. So I'll do that. Or, oh, peanuts have protein? I'm going to eat a whole jar of peanuts. Or it was... I just heard, and this is,

this was from one of my friends even still spousing, like, uh, the Costco cheese pizza of having like something like 40 or 60 grams of protein or something. I'm like, I'm like, what? The no effing way. The family size of Chef Boyardee ravioli was like 56 grams of protein. So that was like many times my, that was your meal.

That was a dinner right there. Throw it in the can or throw it in the pan and just heat it up. I'm embarrassed to say that I took, cause when I remember tuna fish or when I discovered tuna fish, like holy shit, it's like 36 grams of protein. I made, and you know, when you're a teenage boy

trying to gain weight and it's hard to eat because you got fast metallurgy. I'm so glad I wasn't around because of your breath. I blended it in a blender. That's disgusting. So I could pound it faster. That's disgusting. And I just, till this day you gotta know that.

I've seen the strong men guys do that because how big they are and they have to eat It's hard to get though. Yeah five six. I wasn't no strongman. I was 140 pound I never I open the all the things I did the craziest thing I would say so I made some crazy shakes where I would add Like five six raw eggs inside there on top of every I know well I mean and then I would like so for a while there I'd have dinner a protein shake and a peanut butter and jelly I would like so for a while there I'd have dinner a Protein shake and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich was like I like a meal

Felt pretty hardcore Definitely wasn't like blending it all up in a blender. You know why cuz you got into it when you're older than me I was teenager. I was 15. Yeah, really dumb Yeah, I did a month of doing the raw eggs like Rocky. Like I did like three or four and I would go. Now did you literally crack them into glass or did you blend them? Crack them into glass. Oh, so you swallowed the, through the yoke,

the lump or whatever? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God. Just trained to swallow it. The absolute craziest thing I ever did though was, and I did this for a while, and it was, my gains were dropping for obvious reasons, but I was hard headed.

I set an alarm in the middle of the night. I did that too. So I mean, I used to have a little mini fridge next to my bed and I used to have the EAS ready to drinks and an alarm would go off at like two o'clock in the morning and I would like, you know, wouldn't even like roll over, just grab it, sit up for a second and pound it and then go right back to sleep.

Like a baby, you did a dream feed? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's terrible. for a second and pound it and then go right back to sleep. Like a baby? You did a dream feed? That's terrible. Meanwhile doing shitty workouts, you know what I'm saying? It's so funny how our priorities were so... Oh and losing sleep like an idiot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's the most anabolic thing to do. Training seven days a week, double days and then doing that in the middle of the night. It's like disrupting my sleep and terrible programming, but I was hitting that protein intake. You know, it was just like, yeah. You weren't taking enough supplements. That was the problem.

I mean, it's wild when I think back to like the, I mean, obviously this is what a lot of what motivated us to do this, right? Was like, you know, we were in, I was in the fitness space doing a lot of stupid fitness, doing a lot of stupid stuff. Still, right? So I'm supposed to be leading the way and still doing a lot of stupid fitness, doing a lot of stupid stuff. Still, right? So I'm supposed to be leading the way

and still doing a lot of things the wrong way. So I think that was a lot of this motivation was like, man, there's still probably a lot of people probably messing up the priorities of building muscle, speeding your metabolism up, losing body fat. It's funny how much easier it really is when you focus on the right things and how much more difficult it is when you overcomplicate

a lot of the wrong things, you know what I'm saying? Oh, you make it impossible. You make it absolutely impossible. In fact, you know, speaking of correct, incorrect information, the narrative around diet and all that, I strongly believe that LM&T has single-handedly created a trend in the health space that is changing the narrative around sodium. Oh yeah. They really, for sure they did. You've never heard it spoken this

way. No, listen, so you know this is one of our sponsors, but it's a very interesting conversation because they sent us, Rob Wolf, who we loved, we had him on the show years ago, early days, loved him, hit it off, you know, right out the gates, sent us a box of LM&T, and it sat in the back of the studio, back there, for months. And first of all, we didn't know Rob Wolf sent it We just saw this box and you know, I look at every supplement. I'm the supplement person, right?

So I looked at it. I'm like electrolytes whatever waste of time and we left it there and it just stayed there for a while and then I Think it was Katrina who goes. Hey, did you guys want to try that supplement from Walt Rob Wolf? And I'm like Rob I love Rob. What did he send and she's like the you know the box in the back. I'm like Rob, I love Rob, what did he send? And she's like the, you know, the box in the back. I'm like electrolytes, like why would Rob, like such a dumb supplement? So then I went back there and I looked at the box and then I quickly realized what had happened. I said, oh these are a thousand milligrams of sodium per packet. He's actually doing electrolytes the right way. I mean, one of the reasons why electrolytes is such a waste of time sugar water

Yeah, they barely put enough sodium to make I mean I used to give my clients sea salt or to help them not electrolyte powder So they were so low they'd have to take like seven packets Yeah, and then end up with a bunch of sugar and so when I remember I saw it. I'm like, oh He he's doing this the right way Yeah And then we decided to try it out and work with them. And now, cause sodium had that narrative too, right? Where it was bad for you.

Too much sodium is bad. Everything's gotta be low sodium. It's bad, bad, bad. And you look at the data and this is just not true. When you control for processed foods, which is why high sodium looks like it's bad, because the people with the highest sodium diets are eating a lot of processed food.

When you control for that, and especially if you apply it to athletic populations, people eat a whole food diet, people are healthy, it's better to have more sodium than less. It actually improves athletic performance and health and so the data showed that and then I think the other part that made them change the narrative was salt is one of the key components to palatability. So now you have a sugar-free drink, not artificially sweetened, so it's got natural sweetener, which doesn't taste as good as the artificial stuff.

It's okay. So you're like, well, is it gonna taste good? It does, because it's got a lot of sodium. So you drink like a can, and because it's sodium, it makes it palatable. And so right away, I'm like, this is gonna crush, and sure enough, that company's gone. But they're changing the narrative. I'm now seeing other companies. Well, they're changing so much, there's a bunch of companies now.

A lot of companies. Yeah, yeah. They were first to market and actually sell, you know, hydration drinks with the right amount of sodium in it. But now you see, I even think Gatorade now has actually came out to try and compete with a higher sodium drink. You know, I'm going to just say this out loud to supplement people who want to make supplements. Don't be a pussy. Rob Wolf is not afraid because he put out a product with a thousand milligrams of sodium, which all the popular narrative out there was- Back in the day, that seems absurd. Sodium is bad for you, but he knew the data. Yeah. He knew the data. So there's other stuff that's out there in the

nutrition world that's false. Find the lies. Don't be afraid to counter with the truth. And I think in the age of social media, I think you might be able to get it out and then you'll crush. I think cholesterol, a little bit of a parallel there in terms of misinformation around it and how essential dietary cholesterol is. But yeah, it's, it's because too, and it's this fear and this, you know, push for, uh, you know, blood pressure medication. And there's this whole industry, you know, kind of behind a lot of the messaging of that. So, you know, we had to really So we had to really unpack that and get to the root of like,

well, this is actually very beneficial and it's a performance enhancement for you in the gym. And a lot of people are actually deficient. So it's crazy that we were fed completely opposite message. It's hilarious. Anyway, I just read a study on a diet study. I gotta read it to you guys. So things are catching up is what I wanna say

before I read this. So this was just published. So people ask me often where I got my studies. ScienceDaily.com is a great place to read new studies that are posted. And what you can do, they even have a menu where you can look at things like health studies, tech studies, environmental studies, society studies, quirky, and so I always like to look at the fitness

and health, and here's a title of this particular study. This came out of the University of Illinois, and it says, weight loss success, you ready for this? You're gonna love this, Adam. Weight loss success depends on eating more protein and fiber while limiting your calories. That's a new study now showing exactly what we've been saying. Pounding this in everybody's brains.

Yes. So in other words, people cut their calories, they lost weight, but people who ate a lot of protein and made sure their fiber was high did far better, far better in terms of keeping the weight off, losing body fat, basically across. The best part about like these studies that are coming out that are basically proving what we've been saying for a long time is that they're still not even addressing the behavioral component which is what we I think speak so heavily to and it's crazy to me because now you're getting the stuff to support the scientific reason of why

going this direction is the better route. But I mean, I think even that study leaves out the power of telling clients to go after things in their diet and the benefits of that. I mean, to me, that was one of the most profound strategies that I changed in my training career with clients was having that aha moment of first of all, majority of people you train middle age want to lose weight. Most of them have yo-yo dieted and most of them fail when you put them on a diet. And so, okay, how can I do

something different? And it was like, you know what? If I know this all about protein, I know this about fiber, when I look at these diets, everybody's under eating protein. I know how essential that is to building muscle. What if, what if I tell these overweight people that I'm not gonna tell them they can't have anything anymore. I'm going to instead find these things

that I know are so beneficial to them, that if I just tell them to go get those things without telling them they can't have things, what happens? I'm sure as shit. It works. It works so well. It's unbelievably well and it's simpler for them to follow. They're not weighing and measuring and tracking a bunch of stuff.

It's like literally the only thing they're paying attention to is go get my protein, have my fiber, and that's all I'm going to focus on. You know what's so magical about that is protein encourages muscle or preserves muscle. So a high protein calorie controlled diet in comparison to another diet, lower protein, you lose more fat and keep more muscle. But the magic is protein and fiber are both satiety producing. So by telling people to eat those and aim for those and eat that first, you're also kind of in a sneaky way, it's actually a very sneaky way, by getting them to eat less,

without even telling them to eat less. And so what they think they're doing is eating more or chasing something rather than taking things away, and then it ends up in reduced calories. You know, it reminds me of like, I remember I used to get teased for the, in fact I remember when we first started this and we did YouTube and I did a video I

remember the comments gotta love YouTube comments of me teaching I think the video was something like the only way to do I like the title was something like the only way or the best way to do a bicep curl or whatever and it was me oh yeah your staggered stance yeah I was teaching me a bicep curl in a staggered stance and all the comments went bananas, right? Everybody just freaking out. But where that came from was years of training clients and getting frustrated with like, man, I can't get these people to stand up tall with their chest out and their shoulders back. As soon as I tell them to focus on their elbows,

then all of a sudden they slouch over. And it's like crazy for somebody who had a athletic background and was able to like mimic or mirror good form and technique relatively easy to realize that, oh shit, most people aren't like me, aren't like this. In fact, most of them have a really hard time doing something as simple as a bicep curl.

So I had came, I noticed though, when I did core training, when I was doing all this balancing, we went through that balancing phase, right? Where everything was on one leg and your split stance. Dynadisc everything. The thing that I noticed was when clients would stand up or where they could balance, they had to be in good posture. They had to activate their core

because in order to stabilize it, their core would activate, they would align themselves in good posture and they would, in order to stay balanced, their core would activate, they would align themselves in good posture, and in order to stay balanced, they would stay there. It was like, oh wow, if instead of me telling my clients, shoulders back, chest up high, elbows by ears high, keep your wrists straight, instead of saying all that. I found a hack.

I found a hack. It was like, I'm gonna put them in a split stance, throw their balance off, so it's gonna force them. And they're gonna have good form. And then they had great form, and it was like, oh my God, this was like, that's all I had to do. And so that became this massive hack.

So I mean, to me, that's the movement hack to the nutritional thing. And getting to become a better trainer and coach was figuring all those little things out. It's like, my desired outcome is that my client learns. They improve. They get the results. And the traditional way we've been taught

in a lot of these books that we all read to learn how to be trainers, they miss this part. They miss the behavioral stuff in nutrition. They miss these small hacks for mechanics. They're written by exercise scientists and nutritionists. That's why they're not written by coaches who work with people. If I heard you say that, I would 100% guess right away,

oh, you've trained a lot of people. Because that doesn't make sense unless you've trained a lot of people and you know that. Biomechanically doesn't make sense, it doesn't give you more leverage, it doesn't whatever, but it gets people to behave in a way that is beneficial.

And when you're a coach, getting people to behave in the ways that are beneficial is everything, everything else is secondary. That's how you win. That's it. Isn't that like being a dad too? Isn't that like parenting? Isn't that like our job as a dad too? You have to be effective.

Yes. Of course. It's like desired outcome is get my kid to do things. Like sometimes I have to do creative things to get them to do it. It's not as straightforward as like son just do. I call it placing cones. Yeah. What?

You just place cones where it is like strategically and you know that they're gonna turn around the cone. That's awesome. I love that. Dude, speaking of diets and fitness and all, study just, as of the recording of this podcast, a study just came out by Eli Lilly, am I saying that right? That's the pharmaceutical company.

So this is a big one, okay? We've been talking about GLP-1s, we've been talking about how their potential impact on society is going to be massive, culture shifting. Well they just, Eli Lilly, their drug is I believe Wigovie, no sorry, their drug is Monjaro and Monjaro is terzepotide. So this is a next generation of GLP-1 and they just released their long study. So the study was done for a long period of time. Here's what they found.

This is by the way, blockbuster, crazy, insane stuff. Is this the generation 401 year? No, this is terzepotide. This is terzepotide. Yeah, if you went through our partners, MP hormones, they have terzepotide. Now would we get- But this is another generation- Okay, so would we guess this?

Is this, or are we onto this? You're about to say that. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, this is what we've been saying. But this is now an official study trial, okay? Published, they're about to release it. Their stocks can explode, okay? This particular peptide, trisepatite, reduced the risk of developing type two diabetes, ready, this particular peptide, trisepatide, reduced the risk of developing type two diabetes,

ready for this, by 94% in obese or over individuals with pre-diabetes compared to a placebo. That's huge. 94%. Wow. Yes, the, it also showed that they experienced sustained weight loss. So you ready?

So check this out. There's big industry around, uh, around that. Big. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Like think of all the drugs connected to obesity, blood pressure, uh, blood lipid, uh, diabetes medications, uh, anti-inflammatory pain medications. Oh my God.

I mean, like, it's just going to be interesting for me to see how they're going to, you know, deal with this and sort of pivot. Yeah, I mean like it's just gonna be interesting for me to see how they're gonna You know deal with this and sort of pay they're gonna they're gonna have a smear campaign for sure exactly I've been waiting for that. I guess now check out this study, right? This is a long studies a big one more than a thousand adults over a hundred and seventy six weeks Which is how long is a hundred seventy six weeks? Is that three years? For almost four years three years Three and a half years. Three and a half years.

A thousand people over a three year period followed by a 17 week period where patients stopped treatment. It's a great study. It's a very good study. People taking the higher doses of it lost, on average, 22% of their body weight. Wow. Wow.

So if you're, So it's a quarter of who you are. If you're 30, 300 pounds, that's, what is that, 60-something pounds? Yeah. That you're gonna lose? Yeah. Which is big time, that's a big weight loss.

Not gonna give you everything you want, but that's a lot, nothing's ever come close to that. What's a trip is in the study, when they took people off, a significant percentage of them didn't gain the weight back. They stayed off. After 17 weeks. Now I have a theory around this and my theory

is this, because they were on it for three years. The longer you don't, I've said this on previous podcast, the longer you don't repeat a behavior or a habit, the weaker that habit becomes, the less power that has over it. So for three years, they have this appetite suppressing effect. They're not engaging the same behaviors for three years. That's a long time.

When they go off, they're less likely to go, I'm going to go back to the way that it used to be, because it's a memory at that point. It's 100%. This is why I think with coaching, you know, you go on a GLP-1, you work with a good coach or you do this yourself, you train properly, eat enough protein, don't lose muscle, all that stuff we talked about. But if you can, I don't think it'll take you three years. I think if you do months and then replace your old behaviors with new behaviors, I think

you'll get similar, if not better, results. Now how deep did you go into this study? That's just what I read in the article. Okay, so you don't know yet. Like I'm curious to like, who's strength trained, who didn't strength train, did they control for anything like that? I don't think they did any strength training whatsoever. Oh, I'm almost positive. See, this is the problem. I would love to see that. Yeah, because here's the problem with some of these studies. I mean, I know why you're highlighting because that's amazing,

period. If someone just took that stuff and that was all the positive thing. But I mean, I think that someone with coaching and with training and like helping these people along to the success rate and the results are going to be incredible. A lot of the stuff that is getting, uh, perpetuated in the, in media that's negative as far as like the amount of muscle is being lost. It's like, they're just giving this to people and saying, just then tracking them. If you just eat less, that's what happens.

Arbitrary dose. Which by the way, A high dose. Which by the way, take the drug out of this, take the GLP-1 out of the equation and just tell people to eat half the calories and do the exact, and then same thing with that. Same thing will happen.

Yeah, you'll see the same amount of muscle loss, if not potentially more. No more, because, yep, yep. So it's like, that's not like a, aha, got you. It's like, yeah, that's what happens when someone goes from eating 2500,500 to 1,200 calories and they don't strength train, they don't prioritize protein.

Of course. Yeah, and again, just for people who don't know, this is why we created our MAP-GLP1 program, is to have programming that's appropriate, because here's the deal, a lot of people are gonna be taking these. And as these studies keep coming out, this is gonna keep the popularity, the use,

the prescriptions from doctors, it's gonna continue to grow and grow and grow for until, and now here's the other side of it, this is what I think with the muscle loss. Because that's a problem, by the way, I wanna say this very clearly, being over fat causes poor health, so does being under-muscled, okay? So you might solve a problem, by the way. I want to say this very clearly. Being over fat causes poor health, so does being under-muscled.

Okay, so you might solve one problem, you may cause another one. Yeah, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul. You might end up doing that. In some cases it might be worse overall, you lose mobility and all that stuff. I foresee, this is exactly what pharmaceutical companies are doing right now.

They're looking at GLP-1s like, this is our big money maker, we're gonna spend most of our money in research and development, trying to figure out better GLP-1s like, this is our big money maker. We're gonna spend most of our money in research and development, trying to figure out better GLP-1s and better GLP-1s, but also we need to figure out how we can create an accessory to this drug, which pharmaceutical companies do.

We need to come up with new muscle building. Muscle, yeah, sparing. I predict a huge influx of new muscle preserving, muscle building drugs. Totally. That I'm gonna be influx of new muscle preserving muscle building drugs Totally that I'm gonna be very afraid of when those come out You know, yeah, probably my oh, thank you exactly Speaking of working out stuff Justin you are the most consistent with the zero shoes. I am yeah, I saw you wear them yesterday What's your you wear wear them very regularly.

I actually wear them more often now. I went through like quite a kick back in the day wearing minimalist shoes and what I like about the Zero shoes is the wide toe box, cause my toes, I know you guys make fun of me. I make fun of myself. They're very smashed. Would you give me a kiss right on the kiss? Has any girl sucked on those feet? Never.

What? Whoa, whoa, whoa. You paused. Yeah. Has any guy sucked on those feet? No, absolutely. That was a faster note. The first one I've got a question. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was a weird time, come on. It was college. Yeah, you're experiencing. Yeah, no, so, and I'm pretty sure it was because I had this, I don't know, like I think every athlete has somewhat of a, what do you call that, when you're like superstitious

a little bit and you have kind of rituals. Oh yeah. And so I used to really tighten up, I used to get like cleats specifically that felt rituals. Oh yeah. And so I used to really tighten up, I used to get like cleats, specifically that felt snug. Oh yeah. And ever since I was a kid, and then going all the way up. That's funny, I didn't say anything too.

Yeah, all the way up through college. It does feel safer, now that I think about it. I just feel faster, I feel like I'm like, I don't have any room to. With your little tight shoes? No, that's exactly, when we were kids, we were taught, I was taught that, and when we played basketball, this is funny, the point you basketball this is funny the point you're bringing up the point you're

bringing up right now is really by the way do you know that zero shoes is assigned with some NBA players oh wow no way oh yeah go zero deal yeah zero shoes NBA players yeah they have a couple athletes they've obviously were in the offseason right no playing bro playing with zero why, okay, this is why this is a really interesting conversation to me because- So we've gotten a foot anatomy and function all wrong. We did. Yes, all wrong.

When we were kids, we were taught high tops, the high high tops, you lace them up. Tighten the hell out. You tighten the shit out of them so you lock your ankle into place. And we thought that was the smarter, safer way to play ball. It's gonna prevent you from getting injured. There it is, just in the hallway right there into place. Yeah. And we thought that was the smarter, safer way to play ball. It's going to prevent you from getting injured. There it is, just holiday right there.

Wow. Yeah. I don't know if they have any pictures of him actually playing in the NBA. He absolutely wears them in the game. I watched him wearing them in the game. But this is how far we've come, where you have basketball players that have gone

the complete opposite direction. Now you're wearing minimalist shoes on a basketball court. And the ankle injuries and foot injuries are going down. And knee injuries are going down. What happened is we conditioned ourselves to perform in spite of the fact that we locked up our feet and ankle. If you looked at an anatomy picture of a foot, just not even an ankle, look at a foot,

look at the bottom of your foot. There's a lot of muscles there. There's a lot of stuff happening. There's a lot of stuff happening, and what we did is we cramped, and the toes should be spread to create more stability and function. What we did is we cramped everything together. We showed them.

We locked up the ankles. It's the highest concentration of nerve endings in the entire body. Over 7,000 nerves in the feet, and we put them to sleep. Like from birth, from birth we strap up cute little shoes on our babies, and we walk them. And you Like from birth, from birth, we strap up cute little shoes on our, our babies. And they, and we want, you know, it's funny is like, uh, and even a doctor was trying to explain,

cause my dad had to have like his toes broken and like, he's like, Oh, you're gonna look forward to this. Like, like I could have prevented all that, you know, like that was self-inflicted. Like that's not like, like hammer toe isn't like, you know, just something that, uh, uh, you know, I was born with. It's like your wrestling name. hammer toe isn't like, you know, just something that, uh, uh, you know, I was born with hammer toe, dude. That's it. It's crazy though. When, uh, when something, uh, permeates our culture so deep that it's so hard. It's believed. Yes. It's believed as like truth. I mean, to the point where, I mean, I got into so many fights with my own family members about my son being barefoot.

Like it was like a real legit, the two baby hardest things for me was the no sugar for my kid. I mean, I was the worst father in the world for, you know, not allowing my one year old to eat candy yet. And then, oh my God, they're gonna call child services on me for not putting shoes on my son as he walks outside and rocks and dirt. Like, oh my God, I'm torn. No and it's like I literally had to get into that fight like so much now it was so awesome both those things I mean it's like you know this is a pat myself on the back moment right here because because here I am now at five years old and I actually see what has happened one my son loves to be barefoot so like

he kicks his shoes off wherever he goes. He always wants, he does not want to wear socks, his shoes all the time. So I don't even have to talk about it ever again. He loves that. He's unbelievably stable. We never went through that toddler falling down, crashing phase that every kid goes through. He was, he had such great balance and stability. When I look at his feet, when he walks, some of that he is his ankles straight. I mean, he's so When I look at his feet when he walks, some of that he is his ankle straight. I mean he's so Balanced and stable. He's got a beautiful Normal squat and I don't have to say nothing about it ever again

Same thing for the candy and the sugar thing I allow my kid my kid to have candy now or to have treats and because it was Regulated so tightly when he was young He doesn't have that developed yes And I can't stress that enough for parents who have newborns with like the shoe thing. Like the shoe thing is a thing still that we think is a good idea. It is not a good idea to put shoes on our babies. My doctor, when I was a baby,

the doctor encouraged my mom to put stiff-soled, this is what they said to my mom, put stiff-soled shoes on him, he'll walk earlier. So the early baby shoes, you still find them like this. They're like a very stiff sole. Yes, they're like a high heel. Yes, they used to say, oh, it gives them better balance and stability so they could walk earlier.

Meanwhile, now I have ankle mobility and foot mobility issues. Terrible, dude, terrible. Well, that's, I mean, kind of back to where I'm wearing. I started wearing them more consistently because I kind of stopped really heavy squatting like and this was just something I've noticed like over the years like it's I'm starting to kind of feel the effects of You know my hips and like I'm getting a little bit arthritis kind of but let me let me just add a little caveat before You you you people get misinformed here. It's not squats that are making you hurt like

that. You're strong. So when Justin says heavy squats he's like 300, 350. So you can still squat you're just not going. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to double your balls of the wall. That's right. Yeah and two I'm I guess I guess I should have said I'm shifting my focus, uh, more on the stability side of it right now to address instability and what my body's telling me, right? Uh, as opposed to like, Oh, I'm getting rid of squats. No, I'm coming back. But I have to reinforce now, uh, where I feel this, this imbalance. And, uh, for me, it's just like a lot of split stance. It's a lot of like lateral training.

It's a lot of sled drags. It's a lot of that kind of stuff. And to be able to have that kind of ability just to splay out my toes and to really get that solid ground force and anchoring that I need, you know, with my feet, like these shoes are way better at that. Well, it's still a little embarrassing to admit that, you

know, this is relatively new for me. Like I remember we had already started the podcast. And up until that point, I had not really looked at feet as a root cause to movement dysfunction in my clients. I'm embarrassed to admit that because it's like, we talk on the show a lot, right, of all these like paradigm shattering moments and shifts in our career and what we did wrong before

and we did right. I mean, I made it all the way to the podcast, which by that time I would have said I was a pretty damn good trainer by the time we were on this podcast. And I remember when Dr. Brink, Justin Brink, our buddy who's a movement specialist, also helped us write Maps Prime Pro, when he broke me down.

And he was like, oh, yeah, it's your foot and ankle. And I'm like, huh? I mean, I was just oblivious to it. And he did some tests with me and explained what was going on and why my hips and low back and all this stuff was. And oh, my god, like when I addressed that and fixed that, like everything went away. And now when I look at the way somebody is moving

or if they have any issues, it's like the feet are the first place I go because more often than not, that's where the root cause is. You know, you may have your knees maybe caving in, you might have a slight external rotation on the left side, more to the right side or an asymmetrical shift, but many times it goes, it's starting from the foot. It's compensating from the foot. Yes, the foot and due to weak feet. It's just poor function. Yes.

I know. And I know at least you, look, you might even have an excuse cause you weren't introduced to ankle and foot mobility. I, I mean, I'm, I I mean, it's worse for me. I had a studio with an exceptional physical therapist who also was ahead of the game when it came to lots of different things. She used to have her clients come into the studio and one of their assessments was they take their shoes off, they take their socks off.

She'd watch them stand and then she'd watch them walk back and forth. Now here's why it's embarrassing. This is what happens when your ego gets in the way. I would look through the side of my eye and be like, oh my god, she's doing another stupid walking assessment. Like, what are you gonna learn from? Just have them work out. Like, what's the... I could have learned a lot. I could have not learned all this so long ago. So embarrassing. Yeah, I saw. I mean for our audience, from our audience, of course, if you're an adult, you know, things like zero shoes or that awesome, awesome for you to have, but I can't stress enough to the parents that, you know,

you have an opportunity to really set that trend for your child, uh, and set them up for success by simply avoiding wearing shoes for as long as you can. And trust me, let me tell you something. You think that walking on things like dirt and gravel hurt your feet, that's because we have pussy ass feet that you've had weak for so long. Doug, can you Google that real quick? And if you actually train, like you would be surprised

how tough your feet become by, they will adapt. By the way, it's not just, I'm gonna back this up. It's not just, cause people are thinking, oh, I'm gonna have like leathery, calloused feet. No, no, no, no. No. Your feet are so insanely sensitive

because all they ever feel is socks and shoe. Yes. That it's a CNS overwhelmed signal. It's like, it's like if you're in a silent room. It's like you're in a silent room and then you hear any noise. You have to experience it. If you were born and you wore snow gloves your whole life,

a pencil, writing with a pencil would hurt your hands. It'd be overwhelming. The sensation of overwhelm. Yes, that's what you feel. So you know it's not hard for your kid to do that. Like if you introduce it early on and let them adapt to it, yeah, man, I mean, and that was a boy that I tripped my family out. Cause by the time he'd already been introduced to that for multiple years,

by the time he's three, he's having him walk on like sharp rock and everything. I don't remember her name, but there's this trainer that like, I don't know if you ever listened, uh, uh, uh, Joe Rogan had her on the podcast, but she was like super hardcore about that, uh, Joe Rogan had her on the podcast, but she was like super hardcore about that, uh, mentality. Cause the other part of it was like, we don't see far enough. Uh, and so it was like, well, okay. Just back to the actual, her setup for a house, she had like furniture that had no cushion she had like, so her bed had like, she just sleep on a, uh, a wood bed,

like frame basically. And then would you'd like sit comfortably on the ground. And so the whole thing was like, she was encouraging, like you had to like basically form your body into a position that was comfortable in order to, in said that like between her and her kids and everybody else has found ways to, and said that like between her and her kids and everybody else has found ways to, you know, like adapt and make it work with their body. But it's just like, it was so hardcore. It

was like to the extreme. There's some truth in this, by the way. There is, there is. There is. I think I fall, and this is like, I do think I fall somewhere in the middle of this, right? Like, I'm always, we talk about this too too with like Xenoestrogens and stuff like that. There's very small subtle things and choices that you can make in your life to greatly improve the exposure of Xenoestrogens. There's small things you can do in your life to improve the strength of your feet. It's like how hard is it really just to say in fact it's actually easier. I don't put no socks and shoes on my kid. It's like one less thing I got to do. So it's like, instead of like, we've just ritualized so much of getting ready for the day, get them all dressed, got to put his socks,

got to put his shoes on. You know, I just said, no, we don't. Like, we don't have to do any of that shit. Like, my son literally just was barefoot all the time, and I never put socks and shoes on him until way later. And so it was an easy thing to implement in my life that I knew that could greatly improve his life. And so.

Well, you know why it's so important for kids because after a certain point, if you're 20 years old or 30 or 40 or older, and you're like, oh, I have all this dysfunction in my feet, let me correct it, you'll get a lot of benefits, but you're not gonna fix 100% because some of it has been done permanently.

No, as much work I've done on my feet, I've never been able to get them to look like they're close to it. You can't, they never will. It's like there's a certain amount of, I don't know, for lack of a better term, plasticity or development. Developmental period. That's right, but children, if you start early,

they're not gonna have that problem. Yes. They're not gonna have that problem because they allowed their body to develop in a way to where they're okay. But yeah, I mean you could fix lots of mobility issues on someone, but the longer they've had those mobility issues, the harder it is to go back to what's ideal. In some cases, like the feet, it's impossible.

Like we'll never be able to go back to where we're supposed to. This is, again, I keep drawing the parallel to the sugar too. I mean, we form those kids' palates at such a young age that it's crazy. If you just discipline yourself to avoid that stuff now, then it won't be that difficult later. But try taking a kid who you've allowed to have candy like I was this whole life. So guess what? I'm 40 something years old and I've been battling it my whole life because it was something that was accepted and a part of our normal diet

versus what I'm seeing now already in my son in his short five years is because I limited that exposure so strictly early on when he couldn't even communicate or talk and it was easy. Now that he can talk, he does understand what all this is, he doesn't have that much of a desire. He's already been conditioned, his palate's already been trained, it's too sweet for him. Yes, his brain has been developed to the point.

He takes a bite of it and he's like, oh, I'm good, Dad, that's enough. And you know, to your point, Justin, with that woman that you said that made her house super uncomfortable, you know, in Okinawa, some of the longest living people live in Okinawa, and there's some traditional houses,

many traditional houses there, that still don't have chairs. Yeah, they sit on the floor. And so these people, well into their 90s, are squatting down or sitting on the floor and standing back up. I mean, your ability to get down and get back up requires lots of mobility and strength.

There's a study for that. There's a study, isn't that one of the... Because what it is, yes, there's a study that shows your all-cause mortality, risks. Based off of whether or not you can get up off the floor. Now why? Because it's a pretty damn good measure of overall body mobility and strength.

Like if you could go from the floor to standing without needing someone to help you. Yeah, no assistance or props. Like if you're 90 and you can get on the floor and stand up by yourself, you're probably doing okay. Less likely your hips gonna break and go down to that spiral. Less likely you're sick or weak.

Yes, totally. Because I don't know very many 90 year olds. I haven't known a lot of 90 year olds, but I don't know very many 80 year olds that could get on the floor. You see though, and we talked about this, pointing out our own personal flaws. I noticed how quickly I lost the ability

to decelerate in a squat, a jump squat or whatever, right? When I jumped out of the truck and stuff like that. It's like, this is what happens. If you don't use it, the body will prune it. It'll say, oh, it's not necessary to do that. So if you stop learning how to get up off the ground and go on a bike, because all you do is sit in chairs, couches, cars, and you never break 90 degrees, like the body will prune that and that'll sneak up on you real quick. You know, it's a great example of that. It's so true. It's true for every skill. Some skills are more hardwired than others, but it's so true. My cousins, I have a bunch of cousins all the same, roughly the same age, bunch of guys, and

there was a lot of us that were born here and were raised here. And our parents spoke Sicilian or Italian, and we knew it, we understood it, we could kinda communicate with it, but it wasn't our primary language at all. So we all grew up, all went to school, went to high school, sophomore year,

we're all off the same high school, and then they moved to Sicily. Okay, so I don't know, how old are you when you're a sophomore? 14, 15, 15 years old maybe? So they moved. Now up until 15, English was their primary language, okay? Moved to Italy. And if I go visit now, 30 years later or whatever,

they can still communicate with me with English, but their English is almost like, like it's not their primary language. They can speak it, but you can tell they never practice it. They never speak English. They only speak Italian. And their English is almost like, oh, I don't speak English that often. It's like they have to get into it.

And that's a hardwired thing. Language is hardwired. And you can see that it's that kind of a trip. Anyway, I got to ask you guys a trivia question, see if you guys can guess right on this. I saw a pictograph or pictographic that I thought was pretty cool and has a picture of all the all 50 states and then it lists open it up here it lists what percentage of the people in each state own guns percentage in each state yeah so like there's states with a high percentage

own guns. Sure, of course. Tennessee's gonna have like 60% or 70% of the people. Let me ask you guys this. What state do you think, and I bet if you slow down and don't react and think you'll probably figure this out, what state do you think has the highest percentage that own guns?

Alaska. Texas. No, he's right. He's Alaska, I was gonna say Montana. Alaska, Alaska. His population is low. So I was thinking Montana. Everybody has a gun to protect themselves. Does it have all of them?

Like what's next? Yes, no, I mean those are all 50, 40%, all high. Alaska, 61%. Arkansas, 57%, they're pretty close. Good guess, Justin. I would've said Montana. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean. Where am I at with Montana?

Probably a little more populated in Montana, but it's pretty close. 27 percent. It's actually less than I thought. You know, Alaska makes sense because they have a lot of bears. Yeah, crazy stuff. Most people that live or chose to live in Alaska want to live off the grid. And if you want to live off the grid, you are probably gonna have to have skills like hunting and fishing. Yes.

Which mean, and you also have obviously predators like, bears. Honestly, it's really utility. Yes. It's less about protection, it's more like I have to have this to survive. Just in case. Yeah, no, that's a great. What's crazy about this, it's more like, I have to have this to survive. Just in case. Yeah, no, that's a great.

What's crazy about this too is you look at this. What's the worst? Let's go the other way. Oh, okay, well, you guys wanna guess the worst? Is California the, is the? No, it's actually not. I mean, it's low. It's gotta be East Coast.

It's 20%. But don't forget, California, a lot of people think California is ultra liberal. Now, if you go to Central Valley, it's like, it's very conservative. California's like the coast is super liberal. Everywhere else is conservative. Bay Area and so let's go New York.

Let's see, New York is 10% lower than California. Definitely lower than California. What's the lowest? Vermont. Rhode Island, 5%. Yeah, 5% for them. Dang, I said Connecticut, that for them. New Hampshire 14% I would have thought that would have been higher. What is interesting though is to

see how many Americans own guns. Holy shit. I think Americans... And then the ones that own multiples like the ones that own just hundreds and hundreds of them that like bring the average up. Isn't there like like cuz they talk about like you know obviously there's a lot of people that want the average up. Isn't there like, cause they talk about like, obviously there's a lot of people that wanna see us get rid of it, but it'd be impossible, right? No way, you'd have to have a total police state, you'd have to break into people's homes,

it would cause so much worse problems. It would be a war. Then that gun, even if it wasn't a war, you wouldn't want the government to have that kind of power to even try to take all the guns. That would be worse. That's my point. In order for that to put a law like that in place

and impose it, you would literally have to have martial law because the amount of citizens that have hundreds of guns and the amount of people that have a gun at least would be so hard to even capture. Well think about it this way, you'd have all the registered guns, so you'd say you have until this date to turn your gun in, otherwise we're coming for you.

So then you'd have a percentage that'd be like F you, but let's say a majority turn in their guns. So now you have still millions of people who are like nope, so like okay, now we're gonna come to your house. Okay, maybe you hid the gun, maybe you didn't, what are they gonna do, throw you in jail? Maybe some people are gonna shoot to your house. Yeah, okay. Maybe you hid the gun. Maybe you didn't were they gonna do throw you in jail Maybe some people are gonna shoot and then you have illegal guns So then they're like how are you gonna find all those the politician who's surrounded by people's guns

They're protecting them to tell you that you can't have a gun here, which is great. Yeah, but anyway, I thought that was pretty crazy stuff That is cool. I have our shout out today shout out is Sal de Stefano on Bradley Martin's podcast. That's you can't shout me out. Yes I can. Yes I can. That was on Raw Truth, Raw Talk.

Raw Talk. That was a good time. You know, I gotta say, it was a good time. We've met Bradley before. We interviewed him. We had a good interview with him. Almost like seven years ago, is that right? Six years ago, maybe?

Long time ago. Yeah,. Almost like seven years ago. Six years ago maybe? Six, seven years ago. Long time ago. Yeah, it was a long time ago. And then, you know, he has like this, this like social media persona. But when you meet him, he's a down to earth, super gracious, good guy, great discussion. Actually quite deep afterwards,

we were talking about certain things. He had his mom come over after the podcast. Yeah, she was on the phone, you know, his mom's like, hey, I need the code to get in or whatever, and he lets her in. You know, he could tell he's got a good relationship with his mom, so. But yeah, nice guy, great guy to meet in person.

We had a really good discussion, it was good. Yeah, I thought the discussion was really good. And then towards the back half, you kind of get into your journey in Christianity and stuff like that. You told that story, that was really powerful. But overall, a really, really good conversation. Yeah, so check that out.

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you by the way that's on that link you'll also get an additional $20 off. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Tanner from Kansas. Hey Tanner. What's up, Tanner? How can we help you? Well, I just want to start by saying thank you for taking my call.

And I guess my issue is, over the last four years I've lost 100 pounds, probably rather unhealthily, by just adding more movement and eating less. And then I found you guys about six months ago and started just tracking my protein and added creatine to my supplements. And I stayed off the scale for about six months. Added to my strength quite a bit but then when I got on the scale the other day I have gained 20 pounds and it just kind of freaked me out and was made me nervous but I didn't

want to go back to where I was. Okay now I'm reading your email here there's some information here that's important to consider as well. It says here that although you gained 20 pounds, your waist stayed the same size? Yeah, my 35 inch gain is still the same. Yeah, that's a really good sign. That's a very good sign. And then also, you saw some huge strength gains. Your one arm overhead press, so with one arm, one at 30 pounds, that's a, that's a good, uh, you know, 80 pound on a double press, I would say with a barbell.

Is that correct? 30 pounds of one arm up? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I've moved up 30. I do a kettlebell workout at home and I just bought a new 10 pound kettlebell. Okay.

Every time I don't like I needed to go up. Now before you kind of started following our advice right before you started taking the creatine, bumping your protein, strength training, you were on this you said like unhealthy weight loss kind of path so what were you doing before? I guess a better question. What I was doing before was basically, I just cut calories and increased movement continuously to try and get the scale to go down. Do you have an idea of how much your protein was at

before you started focusing on increasing it? I'm gonna guess maybe 120 grams a day. All right, and now what are you hitting now? 180 to 200. Okay and how what's if you don't mind me asking what's your height and body weight? I'm six foot tall and right now about 230 pounds. Okay. Oh he's 230 is that what he said? Yeah. Oh okay. Yeah so all right expected this would be expected because it sounds like you were on,

you were really, really low with your calories, just moving a lot. If you reverse that, uh, and your waist stayed the same. I don't know how much of that 20 pounds was muscle, but a lot of it was typically with weight gain in men, especially if it's a lot of body fat, you won't see this. The waist stay the same. Definitely will. Typically 20 pounds will equate to a significant difference in the waist.

Inches, not like one inch, but inches of increase in the waist, at least three or four inches. So even if you're off one or so, I think what you gained was a lot of water, probably glycogen, muscle, a lot of muscle, maybe a little bit of body fat, but you probably needed to reverse to get the metabolism in gear again. Do you have an idea of how many calories you're eating now? Also, before Tanner, before you got on the scale and saw that you were 20 pounds up,

before that, how did you feel? I feel pretty good. I mean, I moved the letter and I mean, I'm happy with everything. The number on the scale brings me out. I know you guys say I shouldn't look at that, but I say it did. I mean, easier said than done, right?

You're the exact example of why we say that. Because just like you just said, I asked how you were doing and you're like, man, I felt good at him. I you're like, man, I felt good. I felt good at him. I was doing great. Got on that damn scale. And then I felt like this.

And the truth is like that doesn't even matter. The fact that you've kept your waist where you're at, your strength has gone up, you feel better, you're stronger. I mean, those are all great signs if you're a client of mine, I'm probably high fiving you and saying, bro, we're kicking ass Let's keep going and then to get on a scale to allow it to completely just ruin your your day and and Make you feel like you're not doing a good job. You're doing a great job. Yeah, do you have access to a gym? Do you want to switch programs for away from kettlebell to something else?

Um, I work a really weird schedule and a lot of hours so best time for me to work out is at home. Okay. Okay. Like this week I gotta work 80 hours. Oh wow that's a lot. Would you want to follow a suspension program? We have a MAP suspension but you would need a suspension trainer and then it's a different stimulus. It would be different from the kettlebells. Yeah I would be interested in that. All right let me send that to you. But look here's the deal if your waist stayed the same that by the way that's a significant strength gain in a one arm overhead press. Yeah that's a crazy strength. That would be a high strength gain in a deadlift but in a overhead press with one arm. Yeah substantial.

That would that would like roughly be 30 pounds of one arm going up. It's like, it would be like somebody adding 80 pounds to their overhead press or more with a barbell. It's crazy. I mean, that's huge gain. So I mean, you gained a lot of muscle. I don't know how much of the weight you gained was muscle, but a majority of it, if your waist stayed the same

Did you tell us how many calories you're currently eating and what you can have an idea? Um, I'm gonna guess 2500 probably but I I kind of got away from packing the calories so much When you were trying when you were losing weight and tracking what were you hitting? Oh Probably at my lowest 17, 1800 calories. Okay. Okay. Did you have like this ideal exact targeted body weight that you're trying to achieve in your mind? Is it like when you were at a certain weight, you felt the best and that's kind of what's sticking in your head?

Well, um, originally I was 307 pounds so my original goal was to lose 100. So when I got down to 207 that's when I kind of started to repeat myself and just trying to do things the right way rather than just looking for a number. Yeah. What I would look at now, okay you're hitting your protein targets and if you're not already doing this this would be. What I would look at now, OK, you're hitting your protein targets. And if you're not already doing this, this would be the thing I would look at, is just only eat whole foods. Those two combinations will steer you in the right direction.

I also want to explain a little bit of what you experienced and what happened. This is really similar to what happens after I would do a cut for eight weeks into a show. I'm in a deficit pretty consistently for eight you were in a deficit for a really long time. Burning, burning, burning. That means your body's completely depleted, right? It's depleted and it's just utilizing fat primarily as its source of fuel and you've just kept drop, drop. Then all of a sudden you go, okay, I hit my goal.

I listen to mind pump. I think I need to increase protein, increase calories. And you did that. And the first like, especially a big guy like you, seven to 10 pounds was just like water and glycogen. All positive stuff. Just literally because the body has been basically depleted for so long. You gave it what it needed. And so it goes all the muscle bellies filled up, water, water's being held because we've got higher calories, all positive stuff. So seven to 10 pounds like right away after a show I put on immediately. It's not body fat, it's just literally water and glycogen filling my body and my muscles up. And then the other 12 pounds based off of the inches on your waist and the strength, I would probably say a good percentage if not all of it was mostly muscle.

and the strength, I would probably say a good percentage, if not all of it, was mostly muscle. So if you're a client and we're training, I actually would say, I kind of want you to just keep doing what you're doing right now. I kind of like wherever you're landing calorie-wise, even though you're not tracking, it sounds like you're in a good place healthy. I love the fact that you're mainly making sure you hit your protein intake. And probably the next best strategy for us would be kind of where Sal was going, which is, hey, sounds like you've been doing this kind of kettlebell routine for a long time. If you're open to changing the stimulus,

I think you're going to see huge benefits from that. Now that you're giving the body the proper amount of calories and protein, changing the stimulus to kind of shock the body, to use a bro term, would be a great idea right now to keep adding muscle and potentially leaning out more. So whatever you're open to, do you have, like what's your home setup like? Do you have barbells or dumbbells or is it just literally some kettlebells? I have a few small dumbbells, some bands and a whole bunch of kettlebells.

I kind of went crazy on those profiles. Okay. Okay. Hey Doug, send them over kettlebells for aesthetics too. And suspension. We have a, we have a suspension trainer and kettlebells for aesthetics. Uh, I think would be a cool. Last question.

How do you feel now versus, uh, how you felt before, uh, you know, the strength gain and all this stuff. Just feel good. Oh, I feel like a whole new person. So you feel better than you did when you were 20 pounds lighter when you started this. Yeah. Yeah.

And I feel a thousand times better than what I was 300 pounds. Yeah. Yeah. You're in the right direction, Ted. I wouldn't worry. I wouldn't worry at all. And in fact, I had a client once that, uh, they went on a pretty extreme weight loss, then they hired me and they had all their blood marker tested because they were doing

this weight loss program with their doctor. Then they hired me, they got their blood tested again at a heavier body weight with me because we built muscle, did the whole thing. And their blood lipid profile got better. Their inflammatory markers got better. Their insulin sensitivity got better because of the muscle they gained. So, I mean, you're moving in the right, you're definitely moving in the right direction. The fact that your waist didn't go up

is the biggest indication to me that this is all good. Yeah. Okay, well, I appreciate that. Like I said, it's probably all in my mind, it's not really anything to worry about, but I appreciate you guys getting back with me and your input. Yeah, you're doing good Tanner.

Stay the course, man. All right, thank you. Thank you. You know, waist circumference is not a bad measurement to track. It's a great one. Remember, that's Doug's M.O. Yeah, I know.

I mean, that's all he really pays attention to. If I gained 20 pounds and my waist didn't go up, like I gained a lot of muscle. That's success, yeah. I know that's good. It has to be, that doesn't happen. You don't add 20 pounds as a male and not put anything to know not even as a woman Even though women don't gain as much around the way. Yeah, typically we see waste clothes

I just don't really care like how much I weight, you know It's like it's all you feel and how strong you are and if his joints are like inflamed He's like you're always in pain or something. That's not very concerned, but who cares about I mean that? It's funny because he knows he hears us say that on the podcast, but this is the exact reason. Literally, he goes, I feel good. I'm feeling great. I feel stronger. I feel all through my waist. But the scale of that number just deflated his entire idea. I guess that's why I wanted to bring up the competing thing. It's fascinating. You remember, this was a 300 pound guy coming down to it.

He's not a small guy, he's a big dude, like big dude. And if he's been in a cut for like a year, low, low calorie, I mean, he is used to being, in the bodybuilding world, we call this flat, right? So his muscle bellies on that big old body is all depleted and low, and that's what's kept him from- It's the towel that was ringed out. Yeah, and then now, the first couple meals he ate

just went and filled them all up, that would easily put eight to 10 pounds on my body. Right away, just the meal, which you don't get eight to 10 pounds of fat from that. You literally just fill up all the muscle bellies. And so easily he got eight to 10 pounds just from that alone. And then what I think happened is he probably built some, he started giving his body the amount of protein he needed. He's been lifting

weights consistently. His body said thank you. Now we're gonna go build muscle for all this work you've been doing now that you're giving it the nutrients it needs. And he probably put mostly all muscle on, especially when you hear what's going on strength wise in his waist. Our next caller is Jake from Pennsylvania. What's up Jake? How can we help you? Hey guys, how's it going? Pretty good Pennsylvania. What's up, Jake. How can we help you? Hey guys. How's it going? Pretty good, man. What's, what's happening?

Not a whole lot, man. Just got a couple of questions for you. It's nice to finally talk to you guys. I've been a fan of your guys's show for since 2019 and man, you guys have changed my life, so thank you so much. That's great, brother. Thank you. Red, but you got for us.

Absolutely. All right. So I'm getting married in October. Congratulations. Nine you, Brad. What you got for us. Absolutely. All right. So I'm getting married in October. Congratulations. Nine and a half. Thank you very much. Thank you. So over the years, I've gained about 80 or so pounds since 2020, since the pandemic. And a lot of that's because of being overworked, stressed out anxiety.

Um, and I use food to kind of cope with those mechanisms and it didn't help that I had a really awful trainer experience who ran me through the floor. So it just kind of destroyed my metabolism. So now I went from 200 to 283 where I'm at now. And so my question is, one, how should my programming be now dealing with all this stress and the nine weeks coming up for the wedding?

And I honestly, I just want to get healthy. I understand that losing a bunch of weight right now is not ideal. I'm not going to go in with a six pack set of abs in nine weeks being 280. So I think all that I want is to go into this wedding, looking the healthiest and the best I can within the next nine weeks and then use those habits to continue to grow afterwards. Good. Good. I'm glad you continue to grow afterwards. Good, good. I'm glad you said what you said.

Yes, because the truth is the wedding doesn't matter. And I'll tell you what, 99.9% of the time, and I'm only saying that because I actually can't even remember 1% when this actually worked. So maybe 100% of the time, somebody said I want to get in shape for my wedding, they fell right out of shape afterwards.

I've never had a success story where it was like, this is my target date. Yeah, and then it kept going. And then it kept going. It's always a disaster. So, all right, with what you're saying with stress and all that stuff, I think Maps 15 is gonna be your program.

I think follow Maps 15, that'll be your workout. And then I want you to try and get some sleep. Try and get good sleep. How's your sleep situation? Yeah. Uh, sleep is not that great. Um, I usually get about six and a half. I usually get up around four 30 to work out.

Um, I actually just started Matt 15 this week, cause I just listened to one of your recent podcasts about how much you should work out. I was like, damn, I think my volume is still a little too high. So I knocked it down to maps 15 and just started that this week. What time you go to bed? Uh, between nine 30 and 10. Can you go to bed? I try, uh, but with, so I've also been working on a music career and rehearsals

kind of run a little late throughout the week. So I've also been working on a music career and rehearsals kind of run a little late throughout the week. So it's hard to balance the music life and a full-time job. How old are you? Justin gets that. Uh, I'm 27. All right. You're young.

You're about to get married. No kids. Nope. Not yet. Not yet. All right. So this is a good time to play the game of how hard you could push yourself because when you have kids and you get older, it's not as easy. Um, but I would say, look, when you start to feel like, ah,

shit, I'm getting run down, screen together two or three nights of good sleep. Okay. Cause here's what's going to happen. If you don't do that, it's going to hurt your everything, your pursuits at work, your pursuits with your music, uh, endeavors. And then it'll hurt a lot of other things. MAPS 15 is the right program. Sleep is real important, but at your age, you could probably go a little while. Then you start to feel burnt out like two, typically two nights of good sleep

tends to get you back on track. So you just tell the guys or your, your, wherever you're with and say, look, I got to finish it this time tonight. And then I'll be able to come back, you know, even stronger, you know, type of deal. I get the attitude though. I was like that a lot at your age as well. And just kept pushing it.

There are consequences, but I think again, right now is the time to do it, but don't do more than MAP 15. I think that's where you'll make a big mistake is if you go over that. Okay. And then diet wise, your best bet is just whole natural foods. Because with lack of sleep and stress, you're gonna have a lot of cravings,

you're gonna wanna eat garbage, you're gonna wanna eat heavily processed food. If you throw that on top of everything else, oh boy, it's gonna make things difficult. Load up on your protein. Do you have- What kind of therapist are you using? Because I wanna know, are's going to make things load up on your protein. Do you, uh, do you have therapists are you using? Cause I want to know, are you using, are you going to like a traditional therapy,

you doing a nutritionist who's helping you right now with that? I see that you, you said that in the question. Yeah. So I did start therapy a little bit ago. She was based out of Michigan. She's actually technically a life coach cause she can't be my therapist out of her state. Yeah. So she was, um, so she was just helping me out and she actually recommended I see somebody locally like once a week because of family history and stuff like that.

But unfortunately that's just not financially feasible at the moment. So I'm just kind of off the therapy for right now until I can get back on track. You have a spiritual practice? Yes, I do. Good. You practice it regularly? I try my best to, yeah. The data shows it has profound impact.

If that's a direction you're willing to go, that that can have a profound impact on a lot of the mental health issues and challenges that people run into. I've been looking at the data at that a lot recently. And spiritual practice and spiritual guidance, oftentimes, especially if you belong to a church, is free. So I would lean into that because therapy can be expensive and if insurance doesn't cover it, it can be difficult at times. And the truth is if you've already connected the dots that you are using food to cope with a lot of these things, um, and we don't address that root cause, we can, we can give you all the best sleep advice, workout routine advice we

want, and it's just going to rear its ugly head. And so, you know, I would probably spend more time talking to you about that than I even would diving into your, you know, I would probably spend more time talking to you about that than I even would diving into your, you know, programming. And I mean, you got that is what's going to cause this all to come back if we don't if we don't work on that. So honestly, yes, reducing volume, yes, trying to get better sleep, all important things, but most importantly, is probably working through those things that trigger you to use food as a coping mechanism. So I think that I can't stress enough how important it is to really focus on that as your primary focus, because then and only then will the other things really start to fall in line. And even if we do give you a temporary, hey, we help you lose 10 pounds right now if we don't address that it's it's all gonna come back and yeah totally are you excited about getting married oh absolutely very excited you want to have you want to have yes yes I do all right I'm excited

be a dad someday this helps this helps a lot of young men okay because men can be driven by some different things than, I think, oftentimes women are driven by. And what helped me a lot through some big challenges was to try to be the man that I want my kids to be raised by and to try to be the man that I want my wife to be married to. So when you're in those tough moments and challenges, raise yourself up. Do I want to be the man that I'd want my daughter to, to, to, to date? Do I want to be the kind of man that raises my children?

And that for a lot of men can be enough to just get them on the right track and to keep them in the right track. So maybe, maybe use that as well as, as a little bit of motivation. You have an opportunity to be a generational character in your family to break a cycle that potentially might be there. Make that a priority. The rest of the rest of the stuff will start to fall into place, brother. I appreciate that.

Yeah. That's mostly why I haven't quit my job yet. What kind of work you do? I'm a painter for a custom cabinetry shop over here. So I do all the painting and stuff and it's, it's not hard work, but it's not easy work, I'll put it that way. It's very annoying. It's very particular. You gotta be, everything's not hard work, but it's not easy work. I'll put it that way. It's very annoying. It's very particular.

You gotta be, everything's gotta be right. So it's very stressful in the sense of that. And lately we've been doing jobs for bigger clients. So the due dates are getting tighter, higher pressure and the jobs are getting more complicated and I'm, I'm just one guy. So it's kind of hard. Yeah to do everything at once. It's honest work though. That's good Well, yeah massive massive team brother. That's that's the that's the workout program and then just try to reduce You know use caffeine judiciously And I'd stay away from depressants like alcohol and marijuana to help bring yourself down those can really reduce the quality of your sleep

And then you're I think you're gonna be okay You're young so this is kind of the time when you kind of grind a little bit Maybe that bluegrass is gonna take off I'm sorry. Actually. I almost called it. Yeah, man. Yeah. Sorry to disappoint you, Justin.

Sorry. That's all right. I still, I do. Hey, we're slowly converting him, bro. We're slowly converting him. Hey, hey, I never thought I'd like that music. As long as it ain't that like pop country stuff, yeah. I actually have a song coming out next week.

Nice. My first song ever. Shout it out. Shout it out then, Jake. Tell us. Maybe it'll go viral. It's called Loving on Overtime by Jake Groft. I like that. All right. There you go. Jake, are you in our forum? Right? Yes, sir. I am. Hey,

when I own pretty much all your guys' stuff. So when that song goes up, I want you to post it in the forum and tag us. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, man. We'll do. I absolutely. Adam will be very honest. If it's good, he'll tell you. If it sucks, he'll tell you. He can't help but tell you. I appreciate honesty, man. All right, good stuff. All right, brother.

That's how I got where I am. I didn't get through here without honesty. All right, good man. All right, Jake. All right, brother, well good luck. Thank you guys so much. You got it, man. You guys have a good rest of your day.

You too. I like Jake. He's got a state farm. He day. I like Jake. Who's going to stay farm? That, you know, uh, and he's on the right path. He's doing mass 15, you know, but six, six hours, five, six hours, six and a half hours a night. That's tough. Makes it hard. It makes it very hard to do anything.

And if you throw hard workouts, fully recover, you're going to, yeah, you'll screw yourself up. So something has to give, but you know, I remember when I was in my 20s, like you know, that was the time when you kind of see what you're made of and you push yourself and you know, things will change later as he has kids and stuff.

If you can handle it, yeah, right now is the best time. But you gotta get that reprieve because you don't want to shut your body down. Yeah, I can't stress enough the inner stuff. If you can't get to the bottom of that or fix that, then everything is hard. Everything. Everything becomes hard.

And so, That'll never change unless you address it. That's right. So addressing that and working on that and fixing that, which by the way, I know how difficult it is if you've been raised a certain way and it was built into you to break that cycle. You said it well, man.

It's really hard, really hard. So good luck, buddy. Yep. Our next caller is Brianna from Ontario. Hi, Brianna. How you doing, Brianna? How can we help you? Hi, guys.

How are you? Good. Were you on the trainer call last night? Did you make that? Did I which? Did you make the trainer call last night? Were you there with Sal and I and the trainers? No, I don't even know about it. Oh, wow. it. Oh wow. Those are the things I need to know.

I see you're a new trainer. We'll be doing those monthly. Yeah, free webinar and they gotta be making those for sure. Well, hey, maybe we can help you now. What's going on? Yeah, I just found you guys about a month ago. So I'm even brand new to your podcast. So I need all the information on what I should be doing. Awesome. So a brand new trainer in the sense that I've had a handful of clients. Like it's, it's new. I've only been in it about six months. And my first experience was at a big box gym and I had a client who was severely overweight.

She was ready to make changes. She signed up for me for, uh, once a week for three months, I think was her first sign up and I met with her on a Friday and went over everything her goals. I put everything together and nutrition plan, you know, you're going to work out she was going to work out twice on her own and once with me. So I went through everything with her and I said, Okay, we start Monday, like, let's get this done. And the following week, she didn't come in for any recessions. And I couldn't really communicate with her. So I went to management and they said, yeah, you just went too quick, too soon, too much. So I said, okay, yeah, I'm brand new, like teach me what do we need to do here? How do

I approach this better? And their philosophy was, okay, next week we're going to get her to eat an apple. And the week after that, we're going to introduce an extra liter of water. And the week after that, we're gonna introduce an extra liter of water. And the week after that, we're gonna start around the treadmill. Like it was just this really slow progression. And I didn't agree with it. So I ended up parting ways with that gym. Not any kind of animosity, I still speak to all of them.

I just don't feel like I was able to be my true self in that situation. So now I'm doubting whether coaching is even for me. Because I have the mentality of like, let's get shit done. It starts Monday, you need change, change is hard, but change is growth. And that wasn't well, well received, I guess. So my question is, is the industry soft in the sense that trainers are supposed to be

coddling a little bit more and having that participation ribbon mentality? Or is it just a personal growth thing for me where I can maybe find a happy medium between the two? Yeah. Brianna, have you, have you, have you listened to us long enough to trust us yet? Like are you, are you? Absolutely. Okay.

Absolutely. I got good and I got bad news for you. Yeah. Which one do you want first? I want all of it. Okay. I'll start with the good news. I'll start with the good news. You have a zest and a passion for this, I could tell. Yeah. I can tell you do because of the attitude that you have and it's very common attitude that trainers and coaches have when they first get in the industry. Now the bad news is it's the wrong one. It's going to, you are going to fail and you're gonna fail miserably with your clients with that kind of attitude that you have. Also wanna tell you this, we were there too. 100%. We have a very similar mindset coming in to being a trainer that had to shift and go ahead Sal. So

there's a- And I want to shift like I want to make the change because I truly want to help people. Yes thank you you said it. There it is. Okay you want to help people. In order to help people you have to be as effective as possible. Not as hard as possible, not as soft as possible, not as you know charismatic as possible. No it doesn't matter. Whatever it is that's effective is what you need to become as a coach. Your job is to guide these people. When you're dealing with a severely overweight person

who's been battling with this for their entire lives, this is very hard for them. It might not be hard for you. You might have all the answers. You probably do have all the answers. But for them, you're dealing with behavior changes, long-term behavior changes that are very hard. This individual that you are working with

is probably well aware of the fact that they're severely overweight. It's probably causing them a lot of emotional and physical pain. They know that their health is bad. They know they need to make all these changes. They just can't. They just can't. They just can't. You

can't do it. Now I know you might think yes you can, but no they can with the right guidance and the way you guide them is you meet them where they're at. So if they say to you I can only work out once a week, the answer that you have back to that is perfect. We'll start one day a week. If they say to you I want to work out one day a week and I don't want to look at my nutrition the answer from you is fine You're not gonna get there as fast, but that's okay. You let me know when you're ready and this guiding approach this very and it's not soft It's not coddling Coddling is lying. Okay, you need you can be honest. I'm always very honest with my clients

Hey, why am I not getting results any faster? Well, we're not. You're eating one apple, that's it. Yeah, there's a lot of things that we're not. That's all you're doing, so don't worry. There's a lot of things that we're not doing right now. We're taking on a lot. We're not gonna see the results that you want right now. However, we're moving at the speed that I think is appropriate,

and if you wanna move faster, we can do that. But I will ask you this, whatever you're doing is what you need to maintain, and the most difficult thing is not losing the weight, it's keeping it off. And how do you keep the weight off? One small step at a time. There's two ways that you see long-term success

when it comes to any big change, whether it's a personal change, emotional change, or weight loss, which is a big deal. Remember, to go from overweight to fit means a lot of things have had to change fundamentally in that person. It's not just their weight that changed. There's a lot of things within them that changed.

There's two ways it can happen. One is with an epiphany. This is the like, oh my God, I had a miracle moment or this light bulb went off or something big happened. That is very rare. In fact, epiphanies don't even happen when people have a heart attack or when they get, you know, diagnosis of cancer or get divorced or whatever. Even those don't cause

epiphanies, so that's rare. So forget that. Let's throw that away. The other way is slow chipping away progress and change because whatever you change, you have to, you know, you got to challenge yourself. yourself so don't get me wrong every change that they make needs to be challenging otherwise it's meaningless you don't get to determine by the way what's challenging they do but it also needs to be something that they feel they can maintain realistically for the rest of their life whatever that step is is okay so if that step is eating one apple, then that's where we're gonna start.

If that step is I drink an extra glass of water, then that's where we're gonna start. And I'm telling you right now, Brianna, this is coming from three very experienced trainers. This understanding is what took me from, you know, most of my clients gaining the way back to becoming extremely successful with my clients. It was this right here.

This is what made the big difference right here. It's gonna be so much in the other direction too, that you're gonna find yourself doing this as you get more experience too. Someone comes in, they're all excited. They're like, oh, I'm ready to do this. I'm ready to change my life. Give me the diet, give me the plan.

I'll do five days a week. I'll do seven if you tell me. And you're gonna have to talk to them the opposite way. And say no. You're gonna say, I don't think you're ready for that. I think you've done nothing for six years, and what I don't wanna do is get you in here five days a week, and it overwhelms you,

and then you go back the other direction. So why don't we start with something that you know you can commit to for the rest of your life? This isn't just to get you to lose 30 pounds. This is a lifestyle change. I'm going to help you do. And in order to be effective, we want to make sure that whatever we commit to, it's something that you can do forever. So I know you're highly motivated right now and you're telling me you want to work out five, seven days a week, but I need you to see yourself in two, three, five years from now and tell me what is something

you can see yourself consistently doing and actually talking them back. And then maybe working them up over time, but you'll find yourself doing that more. And I'm telling you, we came in the same way. We came in hot like you, excited to help people, which is a good thing, like Sal said. Like that is an awesome thing to have,

that you have the right North Star. You want to help people. But the way we go about it is a lot different than what we thought when we first started. And I'm going to have Doug email you privately after we get off this call, because we literally just closed enrollment for our training course.

And this is what we talk about in there. This is the type of stuff that no national certification's ever covered for any of us. Had a coach proper, effectively. Yes, and this is the difference of you being a good coach and a great coach is learning how to do this with individuals, this is what we go deep in. And so I definitely would love to see you in there going through that with us.

Yeah, and consider this too, Brianna, you're in the fitness space for a reason, you're doing this now as a career, you love it. The kind of people that respond well to the messaging of the fitness industry that says things like, beast mode, all or nothing, pick your hard, that kind of stuff, is fitness fanatics. It's us, we love that shit, that's why we do this.

But you're not gonna be training fitness fanatics. There's gonna be very few of your clients that are gonna become trainers after you're done with them. Most of them are not living for fitness, but they're gonna use fitness to improve the quality of their life. So you have to learn how to communicate to them. You're not communicating to yourself.

And then just to give you a little bit of perspective, you don't have to tell me what this is, but just think to yourself, are there challenges you have in your life that you've been struggling with for a long time that somebody on the outside will look at you and go, that's easy, just do this. And you say to yourself, I know. Yeah, that's what they're doing. So imagine if you somebody came in your life, looked at your hard struggle and you know what to do

and they looked at you and said, well, just do it. Well, thanks genius. No, no shit. Like I need help. I need guidance. Like I need, I need to do it. Well, thanks genius. No, no shit. Like I need help. I need guidance. Like I need, I need to do this in a way that works. That's what you're dealing with with people. Like weight loss, keeping it off. These are changing fundamental behaviors for most people. This is a major personal transformation and that never happens just by getting the instructions and the answers.

It just doesn't work that way. So, and what you're, what you're noticing, what you're considering as a new trainer is what all good new passionate trainers go through all of them. So, uh, I think, I think you would really, you're going to, you're going to love, we have so much good content you're going to love. That's like around this conversation right here, because I really do think this is what separates you. When you recognizing this early is going gonna give you such an advantage,

you know, over a lot of new trainers coming in that don't really even see that as something that they can improve upon. And so, yeah, once you really kind of wrap your head around the fact that, you know, communicating to these people that don't think like you and being able to peer into their experience a little more effectively and just give them just what they need

is gonna set you apart. Yeah, Brie, you've only been listening to the show for a month, so you've probably have not heard this story. I've told it probably five times on the podcast, but I'll let you know the turning point for me. And it was a big one, it was a hard one, and it haunts me to this day. I had a woman who I trained.

I trained her husband and I trained her separately. And she would keep a food log for me. And she'd write down everything she ate. And she kept, body fat kept going up and the scale kept going up. And we couldn't figure out what was going on. Well, her husband confided in me that she wasn't writing everything down in her food log.

So I, with the same attitude that you have, like do this or not or whatever, I thought we're gonna have a tough conversation. This was my mentality. And she came in and I sat her down and I confronted her and I hammered her. And I said, look, it's impossible to be gaining weight on the food that you're reporting.

If that were the case, then we need to study you. It was literally what I told her because you're defying the laws of physics. Tell me the truth. And she broke down, and she told me the truth of what was going on, and she cried, and she left, and I felt so satisfied, and she never came back. She never came back.

And up until that point, regardless of her diet, she was still seeing me two days a week. And you know what I probably did? I probably pushed her away from fitness for the rest of her diet, she was still seeing me two days a week. And you know what I probably did? I probably pushed her away from fitness for the rest of her life. She had an experience with a trainer that made her feel like a piece of crap, that told her that she was lying and dumb

and don't even do this, don't waste your time. So she probably never came back. And I probably ruined that woman's life because I did it the wrong way. And that's when everything switched for me and I became far more successful with my clients. So I share that story for two reasons. One, I think it the wrong way. And that's when everything switched for me and I became far more successful with my clients. So I shared that story for two reasons.

One, I think it communicates what we're saying too, because I hope one day she hears this and she hears how sorry I am and I hope she comes back to the fitness space. That's incredible advice. Uh, the walk back thing. And I think that's working mistake what I did because she did come to me, you know, ready to go and I wanted to make all these changes and I probably should have identified that,

hang on, we need to take maybe five steps back and start meeting where she's at, right? I think that's really important information. And the way you communicate that is you say, I'm so glad you're excited, a lot of people get motivated, they come to me this way, here's what I wanna do, I wanna start you off two days a week.

Well, why I wanna do five? Because your body's gonna respond better this way, in my experience this is a much more successful approach, trust me we will have an opportunity. We can build off of this. And we're gonna build off of this, but I wanna see you two days a week or whatever. I wanna start with just these changes right here,

and don't worry your body will change with just these changes, and we'll have those other things in our back pocket, trust me. I think that's the way you wanna present it. You're gonna find yourself doing that a lot more than you would have thought. Like that was a very huge shift in my career of realizing that and going from the example Sal gave of how I kind of blew a lot of people out the door. Like either you're ready for this or you're not, commit type of deal and

then I realized like oh wow there's so many people that are not just ready for that and it's because that's not how I'm the type, which is probably like you, who I respond well to that. Like, you know, call me out, call me on my bullshit, challenge me. You know what I'm saying? Like that's, I need that. I like that. But to Sal's point earlier is like, we're not training people like us at all.

We're training people that despise working out many times and don't like doing this and have struggled. They don't have a good relationship with it. Yeah, struggled for decades with their relationship with food and exercise and body image and it's like man that is a very slow gradual process. But successful if you do it right. That's right, that's right. You start stacking the wins. But we have so much good stuff around this, Brianna.

I'm going to have Doug too send you over some of the webinars that we've already done where we've talked in depth with some of this stuff, some things you'll really benefit from, so look forward to hopefully seeing you in there with us. Absolutely, yeah, no, I'm willing to learn and I wanna learn as much as I can, so I appreciate it. Thank you. You got it.

Right on that. Yeah, thanks for calling in. No problem, thanks for having me, bye guys. Bye, bye. God, I love these conversations because, you know, if she applies this, you can tell she loves this, if she applies this, she's gonna change some lives. So much more effective. In a positive way.

But this is the biggest, this is, of all the mistakes that trainers can make, I'm gonna say this very confidently, this is the biggest one. This is the big newbie one. This is the biggest one, and a lot of trainers never get out of it. No. They mean well, that's why.

That's right. They mean well. It's coming from a good place. She's not coming and a lot of trainers never get out of it. No. They mean well, that's why. That's right. They mean well. It's coming from a good place. She's not coming from a place of like, I have no respect for these people, they're bitches, they're this, that. It's more like, you know, that's how she would respond. Just like me too.

I would do better with someone like her who tells me like, Adam, you're lying, you're bullshit, like calling me out, like ah. But that's not most people. Most people are not like us. No, yeah, they shut down. And always remember, you are not like us, and so. Yeah, they shut down. And always remember, you're training another person, not yourself.

Right. But you know, that was Doug, by the way. Doug literally came to me and told me he wanted to work out, was it four days a week or five days a week? And I told him, no, we're doing two days a week. I literally said, no, now it wasn't a commitment thing, it was just a strength training programming thing, and then of course the rest is history, so.

Our next caller's Dave from California. Dave, what's going on, man? What's up, Dave? How can we help you? Hey, how's it going? Uh, first of all, I just wanted to say thanks for having me on and thanks for all the, uh, putting fitness out there for everyone to hear and see. Uh, we really appreciate it. So thank you very much.

I've been the listener for the last couple of years. So should I just go ahead and start my, ask my question? Yeah, go appreciate it. So thank you very much. I've been the listener for the last couple of years. So should I just go ahead and start my, ask my question? Yeah, go for it. All right, Sam, I'm asking you, uh, because you're probably the most familiar with the situation I'm in. I'm not discounting any input from anybody else in the group. And I'm open to their suggestions as well. I'm a former natural bodybuilder having competed in the

1990s and I've been training since 1981. Over the years I've developed joint issues from overuse of joints, elbows, shoulders, and knees most likely due to bad training form as well as injuries from six car accidents and not tapping out in jujitsu competitions fast enough when I've been arm barred and I've also had my shoulder dislocated a couple of times. I've been doing Brazilian jujitsu since 2008 minus the four years during the pandemic when I was taking care of my father who has health issues. During COVID I did quite a bit of a HI training, five times a week, but stopped in November to focus more on actual weight training.

As of December, 2023, I'm back doing BJJ, currently a brown belt, but at 57 years old, my recovery abilities aren't what they used to be. So I train Yijiu Jitsu three times a week on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then I've been lifting three times a week doing full body on my non-Jiu Jitsu three times a week on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And then I've been lifting three times a week doing full body on my non jiu jitsu days. And then I have a rest day. Recently, I felt weaker in my lifts and took a deload week off.

However, when I came back, my strength really didn't come back. I just bought anabolic, maps anabolic and thinking maybe I should move from three weight training days to two. Additionally, since I'm doing BJJ on non-weight training days, is it necessary to do trigger workouts and trigger sessions since BJJ is pretty much a full body workout? If I'm over training, should I reduce BJJ down to two days a week, which I really don't want to do. My goal is to get better in grappling but to also

get stronger. I'm the type of person that doesn't like to skip workouts whether it's jiu-jitsu or weight training. As a side note last year I suffered from sleeplessness, low energy, lethargy, low libido but kept working out. In November, I had my hormone levels checked and my thyroid stimulating hormone was 2.83 which is considered normal. My follicle stimulating hormone was 20.7 which is considered high. My luteinizing hormone was 5.6 which was normal and my free testosterone was 368 which is on the lower end of normal. Due to the free testosterone level falling in the normal range,

my endocrinologist didn't want me to go on TRT. So I decided to second opinion his opinion with my father's doctor, who said that my doctor was treating the chart and not me as a patient, saying that low from, you know, that could be low for me, even though it fell within

the normal range. However my endocrinologist wouldn't budge. I added cold showers and ice dips and I'm now sleeping better, feel more energized, libido's returned but my strength not so much. It's gone up a some but not to where it was maybe a year and a half ago. Since initially submitting this I've gone through a full cycle of maps anabolic and was able to gain back some of my strength. I also decided to do your 30 day fitness program that you guys had on place on YouTube a few years ago. I'm five eight, 170 pounds.

My protein intake is roughly 150 to 200 grams of protein daily with a 2000 to 2500 calories each day. I just bought MAPS 15 last month and I'm wondering if I should adjust my program to doing MAPS anabolic two days a week on my BJJ training days and use my off days for recovery and trigger sessions or maybe switch over to mass 15. Your insight would be appreciated. Yeah. This is a pretty easy answer.

One day a week. Yeah. Either one day a week of strength training or math 15. That would be it. So yeah, you do a full body workout 45 minutes to an hour once a week. If you, if you do jujitsu three days a week, it would be one day a week of strength. But just so you know, by the way, in my late 20s competing in jiu-jitsu,

I had to figure this out myself. So I brought it all the way down to one day a week, and I was able to do jiu-jitsu three to four days a week, and that was about it. If I did more than that strength training wise, I would notice performance drops. Especially with someone like you, Dave, with your background as a natural bodybuilder,

you've got so much muscle memory, so much strength potential. I think one day a week you'll see your strength really start to bounce back or mass 15 style, which is like 15 minutes a day or 20 minutes a day of a couple core lifts. I think that would be it with your with your three days a week of jiu-jitsu. All right. Additionally, if I'm just going to do the one day a week, should I just kind of alternate the workout from the Maps Anabolic Program? Yeah. Yeah, that would be great. Absolutely. So you could alternate between foundational workout one, foundational workout two, and foundational workout three. And I would play around with the reps for a few weeks, just like the programs laid out phase one phase two phase three style workouts

I think that's perfectly fine. The other thing is with your testosterone I'd want you to go go through our partners at mp hormones calm and talk to them And give them your labs tell them your symptoms at your age They're likely to put you on testosterone replacement therapy, which that'll be a game changer. They will especially with what you see the second the second doctor was right the second doctor was right with what he said which was that your other doctor is just treating the chart you clearly have all these symptoms of low T based off of what you said and you're low enough that a doctor probably a more I don't know a doctor that's up with the

newest research would be okay with putting you on it. Yeah, now to be honest also Dave, if you reduced your training, your testosterone probably is gonna go up a little bit naturally. It's probably, yeah, yeah, it's probably depressed from all the over training. Look, here's the other thing too, just I could tell a lot by your personality, by what you're saying and your personality. You were a competitive bodybuilder, you have all these overuse injuries, you don't like to tap out in Jiu Jitsu competition.

I can make a safe guess that you tend to overdo things. Is that, yeah, are you a balls little ball? Can you bear through everything? Is that you? Yeah, you know what? My wife, she says that I tend to be obsessive about certain things, so yeah, you're probably right. Yeah, in order to be a competitive bodybuilder, you have to be obsessive about certain things. So yeah, you're probably right. Yeah. In order to be a competitive bodybuilder, you have to be obsessive.

And then if you're not tapping out in tournaments, what the hell, man. Sometimes I think I can get out of that arm bar by, you know, obviously, you know, moving my body around. So that's what I try to do. And once I realized that I can't I can't get out you know they're hitting into that arm bar that's how you know you hear the pop oh yeah Dave cut it out one day a week I actually think you probably will see some I think that'd probably be better be honest with you

just just do that one day a week strength training and then just do jiu-jitsu three days a week and then if you want to do anything else on your off days, you know what would really benefit you a lot is mobility. Mobility work. Okay. Mobility flow sessions, stretching. Do you have maps performance? That I don't have. All right, I'm gonna send that to you.

The mobility flow sessions in that would be amazing for you on your off days. Yeah. That would be so good for you on your off days. You'll feel so loose and- Very recuperative. Yes. All right. That sounds great. Yeah. You got it, man. Send that over to you, Dave. Yeah. All right. Hey, uh, one more thing, uh, Sal, I,

I also trained over at the UFC gym, but down here in Corona and, uh, you guys are 24 hours, uh, you know, 24 hour fitness folks. Do you guys know Adam Sedlak? Do we know? Adam's been on the show. Adam Sedlak actually offered that club to me to grand open. So UFC when that Corona one opened up, I had the opportunity to go be the person to grand open it and I turned it down. Oh, okay. But we're still friends. Adam's a friend of mine from before they opened up the gym, but obviously, you know, he was a big 24 hour guy before he became the CEO of the UFC gym. Yeah. You should go back. We've interviewed him on the

show. He's been on the show. Oh, you have? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I just haven't hit it yet or, or I'm on my way there to listen to it. So yeah, yeah, for sure. Awesome. You have to say hi. We'll we're going to be, we're actually supposed to be meeting with him really soon again too. So we just had a Sal's buddy who is a VP over there. Yeah. VP with UFC. So, uh, we're definitely deeply connected with all those guys. Are you, what's your, you want to give you your jujitsu school of shout out?

I'm sure I'd appreciate that. That's a Thomas Kenny jujitsu in Corona, California. Um, and, uh, he does great things out over here. It's a small gym and, uh, we, and we you know, we do I love training there So it's been great. Awesome. That's awesome. Good deal, man. Right on Dave. Yeah, let us know how it goes. All right All right. You guys take care. Have a good one. Yeah, brother. Hey He's a tough fucker I you know what? I'll tell you dude. One thing I did not do was not tap I

Right. Oh, I was like I am NOT gonna get injured. What's the big deal? I learned. Yeah, I learned I learned Yeah, cuz I saw a couple injuries dudes out there super honoree, you know, they just don't want to but they're the ones that You got to tap out. That's so funny. That's the act. That was the club that I had that's a while Yeah, yeah, that's the one. Adam Sedlec interviewed me up here up north and offered that club for me to grand open that one. That was only number, I wanna say it was number two or three. It was one of the first UFC gyms.

Yeah, and you know, people who train in jiu-jitsu or wrestling or mixed martial arts, that takes a lot out of you. It's not just like an easy workout. Three days, for most people, okay, for most people, three days a week of jujitsu is already hitting them close to red line. That's already it.

That's already, because you're sparring and you're going full on, you're going hard with people for the last hour of class. Your whole body is being expressed. I had a tough time going to sleep for the first year. My body had to acclimate, it was so brutal. And so adding a bunch of strength training on top of that doesn't work for most people.

It just needs to be supplemental at best. Look, if you like the show, check it out. We have a guide that teaches you how to burn body fat in just three steps, it's for reals. It's at mindpumpfree.com. You can also find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump, Justin. I'm at Mind Pump de Stefano.

Adam is at Mind Pump, Adam.'m at Mind Pump DeStefano. Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic, nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos,

the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a 5-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is MindPump.