Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2419: Building Muscle as a Vegan, Ways to Improve Male Fertility, Cutting After a Reverse Diet & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: September 7, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: These are the three most important factors when hiring a personal trainer. (2:10) The conspiracy theory surrounding chemtrails. (29:05) ‘Amazing Grace’ is good for your heart! (36:46) Defining acetaldehyde and its effect on your body. (44:04) Exercise and cognitive function. (47:24) The fascinating story of the East German swim team. (51:04) The benefits of Rhodiola and how to wean off caffeine the right way. (52:33) Shout out to Jim Kwik! (59:29) #ListenerLive question #1 – What is the proper protein, calorie intake, and workout routine for someone with a history of fatigue and weakness and almost zero knowledge of working out? (1:00:51) #ListenerLive question #2 – Am I able to sculpt my body and also increase testosterone and most importantly fertility? (1:15:22) #ListenerLive question #3 – My body is not responding to a reverse diet, what am I doing something wrong? (1:24:11) #ListenerLive question #4 – Do you have three actionable things I can do/say to my clients to get them to trust and follow the programming? (1:39:10) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit ZBiotics for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MINDPUMP24 for 15% off first-time purchasers on either one-time purchases, (3, 6, 12-packs) or subscriptions (6, 12-pack) ** Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off** September Promotion: MAPS Starter | Starter Bundle 50% off! ** Code SEPTEMBER50 at checkout ** What to Look for When Choosing a Personal Trainer Mind Pump #2262: Six Reasons Trainers Fail Mind Pump #2390: Should You Become a Personal Trainer? Mind Pump #2385: Five Reasons Why You Should Hire a Trainer Mind Pump Fitness Coaching Course RFK Jr. Is Vowing To Crackdown on the Crime of 'Chemtrails'  MCW Cardiovascular Medicine Singing and Cardiovascular Health Research Mind Pump #2207: Upgrade Your Brain With Jim Kwik Limitless – Expanded Edition Exercise Improves Cognitive Function, But Only When You Move by Choice Should the IOC redistribute medals to swimmers who lost to doping East Germans in 1976? Get your free Sample Pack with any “drink mix” purchase! Also try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water: Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump Mind Pump # 2162: The Best Supplements You Can Take for Building Muscle, Performance & Health MP Holistic Health TRANSCEND your goals! Telehealth Provider • Physician Directed GET YOUR PERSONALIZED TREATMENT PLAN! Hormone Replacement Therapy, Cognitive Function, Sleep & Fatigue, Athletic Performance and MORE. Their online process and medical experts make it simple to find out what’s right for you. Mind Pump # 2320: Throw Away the Scale! Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Brian Kula (@kulasportsperformance) Instagram Jim Kwik (@jimkwik) Instagram Mind Pump Fitness Coaching (@mindpumptrainers) Instagram

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you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you Please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge bet MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario If you want to pump your body and expand your mind there's only one place to go Mind pump with your hosts Sal DiSteffano, Adam Schaeffer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast, This Is Mind Pump. All right, in today's episode, we answered live callers' questions. People called in and we got to help them out on air,

but this was after a 58-minute intro portion where we talk about current events, family life, studies, and much more. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this one, email us at live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Z-Biotics. We talked about them in this episode. So Z-Biotics are a probiotic drink that's genetically modified. That means that the bacteria in Z-Biotics you won't find anywhere. And why is it special? You drink it before you drink alcohol.

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The three most important factors you should consider when hiring a trainer in order, you ready? You need to like them, that's extremely important. Number two, are they experienced? And then third, their education. Those factors you should consider the most important when hiring a trainer, especially if you just want good results.

Yeah, you definitely got to like them. Yes, you know, it's funny. Yes, because I know people like what do you mean? Why is that number one if you? If you're successful trainers, no if you're not gonna meet if you want to meet with someone twice a week for Three months six months a year five and I had clients for me for nine ten years. You gotta like them number one That's why that's so important, because especially if you're not a fitness fanatic, right? If you don't love working out, then at least you should like the person

who's gonna train you when you show up for your session. Then the second one's experience. And a very experienced trainer, somebody who's trained a lot of people like you, okay? So if you're, let's say, a middle-aged So if you're let's say middle-aged woman or you're a 27 year old guy or whatever, a person who has a lot of experience training a lot of people like you will outperform the most educated, inexperienced trainer 10 out of 10 times. And then of course education is important as well. You want somebody that has put some time and energy into

learning biomechanics, technique, function, exercise, physiology, that's also very important, but it's in that order, and I think a lot of people flip that order. It's not just in that order, there's massive gaps between each one of those two. Like that first one is so important that many times you cannot have a lot of experience,

not a lot of education, actually outperform the trainers. You can get away with being a good trainer. It's a fact. And I tell you what, you know, the trainers. Boy, a lot of people are gonna be mad. Oh yeah. Every time I talk about this stuff, I piss off the trainer who just got out of college

and finished his four national certs and he's just getting ready to get started in the gym or maybe he's been working in the gym for six months to a year and just doesn't like to hear that. But it's a fact. I mean, there was a time, I remember early in my career, where I had no national certifications,

I had no experience, but I was a top trainer. And it wasn't because I was good, it wasn't because I was educated, it was because I was liked by my clients. My clients liked seeing me. They liked to show up, they liked to work with you. And what I quickly learned was, I didn't have to have all the answers.

I was surrounded by other experienced, brilliant trainers. I had resources like certifications and books and stuff that I could go to. The internet existed then. I could go find the answers for my clients. I gave my clients that confidence that they could trust that I would give them the right answers. I may not have it right away off the top of my head, but I would definitely make them feel confident that I would get to the bottom of whatever questions they had. You cared, you had passion, you had their best interest in mind. Those were

like the three most foundational attributes that they're looking for when they're hiring you. And that will carry you so far. And then of course, next after that is you have a lot of clients that like you, you get a lot of practice, you is you have a lot of clients that like you, you get a lot of practice, you start to see a lot of similar goals, a lot of similar challenges. This now gives you the ability, okay, to be able to communicate things and forecast what may be coming down the pipe for those clients.

Very, very valuable. Even more valuable than the third level, which is the education and the fact that, okay, now you have the tools to do the other other two are. You're likeable. You can forecast because you've been doing this for a long time. And now you can even break the science down. Now, when they challenge you or they ask deeper questions, you don't have to do what I had to do, which was, you know what, let me go back and read and figure that out. And I'll come back and tell you that you could just regurgitate all that great science.

Well, that's all part of having their best interest in mind and caring, right? Is you want to elevate your skill and you want to be able to provide them with results. And so if you're working actively towards that, you're just inevitably going to get more educated, more experienced, like you're going to go down that path regardless. And so yeah, it's just kind of funny to me. That's an ego thing, you know, for a lot of trainers that have went the opposite direction and went all education first. And like, that was their entire focus of like, well, you got to respect the fact that I have, you know, all of this knowledge when in fact, what they really want, what the client really wants is the opposite. But of course, the education, I mean, yeah, look, they can like you, look, here's,

you can have all the knowledge in the world, but if nobody wants to work with you, you can't help anybody. You can't apply it, it's worthless. And nobody wants to listen to you. Nobody wants to show up. First of all, they don't like to work out anyway. Most people who love working out

work in the fitness industry. Most people don't love working out. And the people that do don't necessarily need to hire a trainer, they just love doing it. The people that hire a trainer, they need that help. They need to figure out the consistency. They need to figure out the problems. More importantly, they need to develop a relationship with exercise where it's something that they

want to end up doing for the rest of their life. Part of that is doing it right. It's very important. I don't want to say it's not important. Doing it right is very important. But the other part of it that's important is this person shows up and they have an experience consistently with this trainer where it's like,

this is great, I like doing this, I like working with this person. This is a great experience versus this is a terrible experience, I gotta show up, I gotta drudge through this. You know, when I hired trainers, I made a very common mistake that a lot of managers make in the fitness space.

I, when I first became a manager of trainers, I hired, I looked at resumes and I looked at their education. I said, Oh, this, these are going to be great trainers. Look at this guy's got a masters. This person has a bachelor's person has all your certifications. And I actually hired very educated, inexperienced, whatever trainers, they failed. But ones that did well were like the brand new people that came in who had great attitudes. Just hungry.

Very likable, very, they wanna learn, but they're just this great attitude and they just did exceptionally well. They got all the clients, they got clients great results because the clients showed up and they learned together and worked through the whole process together. Now a lot of that I think is, I think when you're a trainer that goes

and you, and you go through the traditional route of schooling and then you get the national certs, I think you think that this is what's going to make you this like super qualified trainer and that you're going to be problem solving these like deep science questions. That never happens. I think, right? And then you get into the real world, and you realize that, one, you rarely do get trans.

Although you get some. You're an example of this. It happens. You get some doctors. You get some surgeons. You get some engineers that want to know a lot of detail. At the very least, they want to know that you know. Yeah, exactly.

So you get a few of those that are like that. But for the most part, most of these people really don't give a shit about your profession. Really don't give a shit that much. They just care that you know more than they know and that you're going to guide them and lead them in the right direction. And they struggle with things like behavioral change. That's the struggle. And their relationship with exercise food. And that has nothing to do with kinesiology. That has nothing to do with what you learn about human physiology.

Behavioral psychology is a whole different monster that, by the way, none of those, you don't get those courses on your way to your kinesiology degree. You don't get those courses in any national certifications. You either learn that in the school of hard knocks or you go out and you pursue that education because that ends up playing a much bigger role Than you having to break the science down to anybody like that and again for the new trainers that are you there? Like why I was successful as a young kid when I wasn't that educated was because I was okay and comfortable saying like, you know I don't know or you know, dude my buddy Sal. He's a total science nerd

I'll ask him like he knows everything without that. And I'll talk to him tonight. And I think people just appreciate that. Better that than pretending like you do know or fumbling around and getting nervous because you don't. It's like, own it. Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question, actually, knowing you say it.

Like, I haven't had anybody who's asked that question. Or I haven't seen that challenge. I'll find out from you. And when you do it with that, uh, when you're comfortable you're okay with it You say it with that confidence. That's all they're looking for. They're just looking for for somebody who's like, okay good He's gonna go solve that for me. So I don't got to think about it. You gotta look this is what This is what you if you're a person thinking about hiring a trainer This is what you want to consider you want meet the person, they do an assessment, they better do an assessment,

they take you through a few exercises, they talk about what it looks like to work with them, and then when you leave, you gotta think to yourself, is this someone I'd want to meet with and spend an hour with twice a week for a while? I mean, you're gonna spend more one-on-one time with this person than most people in your life, except for maybe your close family, and it's uninterrupted and it's vulnerable. You're working out. You're sweating. It's challenging

You're doing things that are hard Is this a person you want to be around while you're doing that and if the answer is I don't know You might want to find someone else if the answer is I could totally see myself doing that with that individual I trust that person. This is someone I want to come meet twice a week. Then that is a big yes. Of course experience is important because experience, there's things that you can you learn through experience that you don't learn through courses. It's really almost impossible to learn through a course unless you're being mentored by other trainers and coaches. I think that's valuable. I think you know having some kind of mentorship,

following a trainer or coach, watching how they interact. One of the best ways to do it. other trainers and coaches. I think that's valuable. I think having some kind of mentorship, following a trainer or coach, watching how they interact. One of the best ways to do it. I mean, in our course, in our trainer course, we put a lot of that in the course. We don't want to teach trainers and coaches the hardcore physiology or that stuff.

We wanted to teach them the stuff that we taught trainers, which is how you work with people. Yes, how you work with people, how you talk to people, how you help people stay consistent when they come up with these challenges. Here's how you work with people. Yes, how you work with people, how you talk to people, how you help people stay consistent when they come up with these challenges, here's how you work around them. And it's all mostly behavior-based type of stuff. But that's it, that's the truth.

By the way, we're talking from the perspective of we trained trainers for years and years and years, so I'm telling you right now, the people that I saw that were successful had those three traits in that order. One, two, and three. The people that had those traits, the odds of them succeeding,

and the success I'm saying, I'm defining is, they built a good business, people came back, people got good results, people developed good consistent behaviors that lasted beyond the training. It was those three factors right there. Yeah, you know the last couple days we've taken a few phone calls, live callers or whatever,

and some of them have been trainers, and I found myself repeating kind of the same thing. And the second point that you made, the experience. Probably the most important part of that too is because it's not finished there. It's like, okay, that's great, you have a lot of experience. You've seen a lot of different clients. You've seen a lot of clients with the same goals, same challenges. That's the first step is getting the experience. The next step to that step is the ability then forecast that for your client. And what that

means is that I have this client that I'm familiar with this challenge. I've seen this before. This client has a bad relationship with food. They've yo-yo dieted their whole life. They're married to the scale. I've seen this before. I also know what happens in month one, month two, month three, and what kind of challenge they have. I know this. Now I have to also know how to communicate that and do it early on. right? And this is very powerful. You knowing that that person is going to have a challenge with what they see the number on the scale. You know that when their clothes start fitting a certain way in a month of working with you

and they don't feel like they've lost weight, they're going to be challenged with that. You know when you reverse diet them and you actually focus on building strength and building metabolism, they're going to freak out when they see this. So a really good coach and trainer not only knows that because they've seen it before, but then also knows how to communicate that to that client. Here's what's happening in the future. Yes. Here's what's going to happen. We're going to do these things. And I'm telling you, we're going to have a hard time with this. And then you're going to want to do this. And then you're going to lose faith even in me because you're going to think, oh my God,

he's taking me the wrong way. But I'm telling you, this is what we want to do and this is part of the process. You be a trainer that can do that. That is so powerful, so valuable for the average person who's trying to do this. Yeah, that's why application weighs so much heavier in experience. And this is what's the difficulty for the online space of being an online trainer. It's like, this is why we're, you know, I was very hesitant to give people advice in that, that realm without actually physically doing that, because how can

you forecast if you haven't actually worked with somebody to create those predictables? Yeah. Uh, and yes, you can listen to us and we can kind of you know, lay that down That's why we have a course to do that right is to try and give you that information Just like you're going through and applying it yourself But at the same time obviously you skim that's nothing's gonna beat that that's gonna tell you so much You know, I want to add one more thing to this because we have we have several forums

We have a private forum, we have one for coaches and trainers, another one that's just an open one for coaches and trainers, and every once in a while we'll see a trainer, we'll make a comment about something. And I can almost always predict, or tell I should say, what kind of experience that trainer has by the way that they pose their question. And the reason why I'm saying this is the kind of experience

the trainer has matters as well. If somebody has 10 years of training experience, that's great, but if it's 10 years of training experience of athletes and you're 38 year old mom or dad and you wanna work out a couple days a week because you just wanna get fit, that experience isn't gonna apply to you because they're gonna train you based off the experience

they have with athletes. And now athletes are a completely different animal. An athlete is work harder, try harder, do what I tell you and just follow it, okay? For the average person, that's terrible. It's terrible advice. That advice almost never works. Same thing with bodybuilding coaches or other types of training.

You can just write them up. This is the chalkboard sort of programming where you can write it up, you do that, you follow it, and you leave them alone. But that's not what we're talking about. No, no. I mean, we had a trainer comment in there about how we tend to take cardio away from people when they call in. And my comment was, well, first off, I could tell right away, by the way they asked the question, was, I know you work with athletes because you're talking like a trainer that only works with athletes. Because this argument was, I know you work with athletes because you're talking like a trainer that only works with athletes.

Because this argument was, why would you take away their cardio? Cardio is good for the health, the heart health. Don't you want them to have good cardiovascular fitness? And it's like, yes, but context matters. Oftentimes when people call in, they're challenged because they're plateaued and oftentimes the reason why they're plateauing is they're overstressed. Not getting good sleep, they're working out too hard for their body. Might not look like it for you because you work with athletes but this is the average person and when we look at their routine and we prioritize their workouts unless their goal is endurance which typically it isn't. Typically their goal is fat loss with some health and some fitness. If I look at their exercise routine and I need to take away some

exercise because I'm like this your body's overwhelmed with stress Taking away cardio is the first thing I'm gonna do. I'm not gonna take away the strength training I'm gonna take away the cardio then the next thing I'll do is scale down the strength training The last thing I'm gonna do is take away the strength training and I'll use typically use walking But I could tell based on the way that this person asked the question Their experience was oh you just like I even a question It was a dumb comment just but just like when I, you know, I've seen trainers who work with bodybuilders, physique competitors,

and bikini competitors, and you can tell when they communicate. Yeah, but there's. Your macros, just count your macros, hit your, it's like, that doesn't work for the average person. It was a dumb comment. It's different than, there's a way to pose that question and create an intelligent conversation

between a bunch of professionals, and then there's a way to say a dumb comment. Like, this dumb comment is what it was. It was like, I saw what post you're talking about, which is why I responded right back. It was, how long have you been training people? And then his response was, I train athletes. And so it's like, okay, well, I don't even know,

after that I didn't need to say anything. It's like, you obviously have one perspective that you, the lens that you look through, these app these people why it's like First of all, we've never apples and oranges. We've never had somebody get on live If you've been listening to this show for long enough, no one has ever came on who's on a overall health journey That's in a good place physically and is doing 20 minutes of walking every day and we go cut out your walking It's never that. It's the person who's crushed on calories, they're pushing cardio an hour or more, three times a week,

and they're stuck in a place. They can't burn calories to burn fat and that's what that's why we're trying to tell them is another way to do it. There's no nobody in here thinks that cardio is unhealthy. It's just in the context of somebody who is trying to lose 20, 30, 50 pounds and they have reduced calories, yo-yo dieted forever and they're at that level of where they're just overdoing things. Yes, and also keep this in mind with context, is again, unlike athletes, okay, people have a really hard time committing to three days a week of 50 minutes of activity. Of any activity.

100%. If we could get the average person to exercise consistently twice a week, we won. We've won. That's not what people do. But if we can do this, if we could do this and we can make it strength training because it's the biggest bang for your Buck across the board longevity health muscle fat loss all that stuff then we've won but it's hard It's hard to get people to do that on a consistent forever basis

I mean this I mean so irritating to on my end of the side of the fence because you know in performance if I was To go back and really do a good job coaching athletes Fat fatigue would be in one of the last things that I train yeah okay because like the skill itself you're gonna acquire such a higher level of skill if you remove fatigue when you're actually training and devoted to practicing that and so if this is something where you're just throwing them on a cardio and you're trying to get their heart rate at a specific amount, trying to burn calories and thinking this is all great, well, you know, you got to reassess that. Are you even applying the best formula for your athletes?

That's why these new coaches and trainers that are out there, like, what's his name, Kula? Brian Kula, yeah. Totally different. Totally different approach. Completely different formula. Very successful. It's revolutionary and I think you should really take a look at it because I think that it's been grossly overestimated

in terms of the value. Yeah, this is why when I hear that, when I saw those, who was it that, MMA fighter that hired, what's his name? Oh yeah, that hired, Goggins. Hired Goggins, I went, oh God, he's just gonna beat the shit out of you.

You don't need to hire anybody for that. You do that yourself. No, just to give an example, like when I was, I remember at one point in my training career, I started to get more advanced age clients, people over the age of like 60, 65, and then 70 and above. And this was because there was a period

where I started to train a lot of doctors. Then the doctors started referring their clients to me, and many of their patients were people who were in this age group. And that was a learning curve for me, okay? Because my experience up until then was middle-aged individuals, you know, between 30 to 45, like everyday person. There's a big difference when you're training the everyday middle-aged individual and somebody

who's 65, 68, 70, 75, deconditioned. And I'll never forget, you know, I had my first 70-something year old client. I thought I barely did anything and I get a call the next day from one of their kids, she can barely get out of bed. I remember being like, we did five sets of body weight squats and this and that, it was a complete learning curve. But then I watched a really, really good physical therapist work with one of these individuals and I remember one of the exercises she had him do, she had him sitting on a bench and

she took a balloon, no joke, and she just popped the balloon to him. And all he had to do was reach for it, and reach for it. And I'm like, that is an exercise for him. That's where he's at. And I had to build that experience as well, because my experience was based on a completely different demographic.

And then I realized, oh, when you work with that age group, decondition age group Very little it's very costly and then they'll probably need to apply Do you remember when that was you do you remember when you had that epiphany or when you were observing that like? Did you enter that situation and like? Challenge them and think they were stupid and like they didn't know or you more open-minded to like trying to learn because you were where Were you at that time? So when I first saw some of the exercises that they were doing, at first I thought,

that's just too easy. Like, you've got to do a little more than that. But then I had the experience of training somebody and doing what I thought was very little, and then getting the report that they could barely move. And I said, you know what? I think I'm wrong. I think I'm really wrong.

I've got to scale it way the hell back because these people, not only do they not exercise, they don't move. So they're being brought to me by one of their kids or whatever. Many of them were not independent and most of the day, actually all day, what do they do? They sit all day long. So having them sit down and stand up three times was their set. Okay, you're done with that We're done with that. Let's try a different exercise. No resistance Well, here's what I want to do stretch your arms up as high as you can and then they come to the next day Be like yeah, I got a little sore just from doing that. No, but the cool thing was they progressed

They all progressed everybody got stronger which blew me away the strength gains. I saw in the elderly Always blew me away. Your body really never loses its ability to adapt the potential of course changes But that always blew me away cool. Yeah, there was a second there where I was like really I gotta do that little that little And yeah, that was it. Yeah, did you challenge the trainers or no because By that point she had earned so much of my respect that I because because she'd already, I'd already been proven wrong on a couple things because she was so good at what she did. She was a physical therapist by trade. So she really knew what she was doing.

Yeah, I mean you strike me as someone who would be like open, I mean I've always, that's how I go into stuff like this. Like if you've got somebody who is been a professional for a long time and they do something different than how I think, like I'm so curious. Totally. Right away, I don't have the attitude of, oh, I know it all or I'm right. I'm going like, oh, that's interesting.

Why do they approach that differently than me? And I'm more open-minded to think like that. So I think that's what my knee-jerk reaction to trainers that say dumb stuff like that in the forum is just like, how ignorant of you to make a comment like that, thinking that your little tiny bit of experience with just athletes, you know better than arguing with three guys that have been doing this for, what, combined 65, 70 years of experience

of all different types of people. It's like, why would you not stop in your tracks and say, wait a second, maybe I'm the one who does it. Maybe it's versus, I think the way the comment was like, they're not knowing their bias and this like, I'm just like, bro, really? Seriously right now? This is so funny to me.

It reminds me of when I'd meet these guys in the competitive world that were competitors and because they got so jacked, right? Because they went from fat to fit to shredded, you know, and they became pro men's physique athletes. Now I can train people. Yeah. Now they think they have like all the tools to train average people. And it's like, dude, and then they were applying it the same way that they applied to them getting in shape. It's like, oh my, you couldn't be so far off, dude. I would see these girls that would come in, and they'd either work with me or one of the other trainers,

but they'd come in and they'd be so destroyed, so depleted, so hormones out of whack. They'd just finished a whatever show, and they'd be eating like 800 calories a day. By the way, not 800 calories and doing nothing. 800 calories and doing an hour cardio and an hour strength training. And I remember, I'm like, oh my god, like it's incredible that you're here right now. Which number one, it proves the power of the body's ability to adapt,

especially when you're young, but I can't believe somebody just, why did you do this? Oh, I kept plateauing So they just kept cutting your calories, okay You know this I mean and not to continue to and I don't want to keep picking on the dumb kid But I'd like to I think it's a good point to educate No, really though I think it's a really good point to educate the audience and other coaches and trainers to understand this like because it took me a while to completely wrap my brain around this too because I do understand where he's coming from. Definitely would have approached it differently, but I understand where his logic is

or how he sees things. But when you start to realize that the, you know how, and back to your original point that I think is so important, is if people, strength trained, full body, two days a week, we would not have an obesity epidemic. Like we would literally not be in this situation. The biggest problem. But part of why we are is because it is so difficult for people to commit

to that much activity. So when you start to really sort to grasp that, that that is the majority of people and the anomaly are the people that can go exercise five days a week consistently for years. People that just love it. Yeah, that's a such a, that's a fraction of a fraction. Huge ask. So when, so once you first wrap your brain around that and you grasp what 90% of the people are more like and that you go, okay, as a trainer and coach, I'm trying to create habits for this person that's going to make the greatest change, first of all for them, metabolically, physically, health-wise, and then also what they could probably do

forever, what does that look like? Does it look like an hour of cardio three times a week? Do I think that's bad? No, I don't think an hour of cardio three times a week is bad at all, but if I had to choose that I may only get 40 minutes to 50 minutes two times a week with these people. What's gonna give them the most bang for the buck? What is gonna give them the most, and when I'm trying to build on a

program and start them somewhere, where would I want to start them? Well I'm gonna start them at the lowest barrier of entry that's gonna give them the greatest bang of buck. Now granted, and this is why your point, context matters, that same person we may be giving that advice to right now, but let's fast forward a year, two years. They got their results. They lost 30 pounds. They're consistent.

They're consistent. Let's add some cardio. Let's add some more activity. Let's do some more things and make you even healthier and more fit. But this is what experience tells you. Experience tells you most people end up quitting and overwhelming theirself with too much

and their body stops responding and then they get frustrated, they throw their hands up and they don't do anymore. That's what experience tells you when you've done this long enough. And to the point where I used to be the guy that would convince brand new members to come to the gym more.

I eventually became the guy that convinced people, no, no,, I know you say you want to come four days a week But I only want you here two days a week the second version of me became more successful with people when it came to results and I learned that because People over commit their body stops responding. They don't like it and they never come back. Well, I just never come back No, anyway, I want to ask something because and maybe Justin, you know this better than anyone in here I saw a post by RFK I wanna ask something because, and maybe Justin, you know this better than anyone in here. I saw a post by RFK saying that he's gonna stop something along the lines of chemtrails.

Like, we need to stop dangerous practices. So these are real? Like, they're actually doing, like, spraying chemicals in there on purpose? It's no longer a conspiracy theory? I mean, he said this is happening. I mean, essentially, this is a real I mean, essentially this is a real thing. This was a post on X. X. Yeah. Yeah, dude. I did see that. Yeah.

I mean, I, yeah, I like how you referred to me as the authority. Bro, you're winning. Kemp trails. Yeah. I know all of them are happening. Like, show me something that I say, you know, maybe the ridiculous with like the lizard people that's gonna come out later That comes out. I swear Justin. Yeah, I'm not gonna just wait. Give me a give me like a size of spider caterpillar or whatever That was really real bad. We got to have some small

Yeah, apparently Apparently it's it's been happening and you see it I think in more areas of the country than others. And some people have reported in the sky, there's criss-crossing patterns. And it's like being inundated with a lot of these. And what are the chemicals that they're finding in this?

Do you know this stuff? I know one has aluminum dioxide or something like that. What's the purpose? So cloud seeding was one part of it, which was I know in LA or some county down in Southern California, they actually proved that it had like some kind of, I don't know what chemical that was in it, but it seeds the clouds so it rains and then it, you know, within a few days or so it was like a lot of rain all of a sudden. And so this has been something in experimenting with, but also too, like there's been like toxic chemicals they found in a lot of these residue clouds.

So there was this guy that was recording flight patterns, and he was showing the flight patterns of some of these planes over areas. And a plane wouldn't do this. It wouldn't fly in a circle and then fly zigzagging back and forth over a match of a huge area. Where's he going? Why is he going? Why is he doing that? Yeah. So what's the theory? The theory is that they want to cool down the, they want to create some kind of a mist or something to cool down the ground or is it just cloud seeding or is it other Nefarious shit like we're spraying chemicals in the air. I'm sure there's other people that are thinking more nefarious reasons just because of You know any kind of toxic Chemical like in the environment is gonna

Suppress our immune system. I'm confused Okay They're how how does anyone get behind even doing this unless there's got to be some logical reason that they're presenting to the pilots, to the people that are organizing this? Is that like a bunch of pilots blindly go up and go spray chemicals in the clouds because somebody told them? Do you want me to raise the whole one-eyed, yes, the cloud seeding? Global warming?

Is that what you're saying? That's what I was thinking. So that would be my thought process is like, we've convinced people that this is one of the ways that we fight global warming is by getting more rain. I don't know, I'm gonna look up, Doug, let's look at chemtrails. Or has somebody done the math on like,

hey, when we have these droughts, like when California had a drought, like how detrimental that is to our crops and how much that hurts agriculture. And so we've learned that, hey, we gotta make sure we have at least this much rainfall to make sure that our agriculture doesn't go backwards. There has to be a logical reason.

It's not like they're going out there and just poisoning fucking people. What is the conspiracy to that? So here's a comment, because I'm leaning more towards your latter statement these days. Well, so Ken, so he literally reposted this video and underneath it he put, we are going to stop this crime.

And I'm like, what? What crime? What are you talking about? So the conspiracy theory is that these are pilots that are secretly spraying chemicals on unsuspecting populations. According to the video, the pilots are hardened to humanity, could care less about killing off unwanted or leeching aspects of America and the world.

I don't know. Yeah, this was one I was always like skeptical because you, it, you know, whenever you have like these turbine engines, like it just naturally creates this, this jet stream behind it, it creates these clouds. Contrails. Contrails. Yes. Not chemtrails, contrails. But so what's the difference? Right? Like it. One is water vapor. Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, like if you're going to see it in the sky, like, do you know the difference by seeing if one has chemicals versus the other? Well, so my understanding is contrails, which are water vapor from jet engines.

You know more about this than you do. I know, I was gonna say, I defer to Doug. Doug's years per gun. I'm not an expert, I'll put that out there right now. You're like, you know a lot, Doug. I mean, how hard is it to go get up in a hot air balloon and go test it? Well, we could do that sometime, Adam.

Go get on a cupful. But my understanding is, is that water vapor from the contrails. Bro, sometimes you're brilliant Yeah, I mean mark. Let's set some cups up on some balloons Yeah, so water vapor from contrails if you watch a jet go by and they have that a contrail it will evaporate very quickly The chemtrails Oh supporting according that they stay up in the sky for hours. Okay. I was reading on cloud seating for rain. It's Aluminum oxide. Yeah

Silver iodide sounds horrible Aluminum aluminum in the atmosphere is not really very good. It's been associated with Alzheimer's so maybe this whole time when we remember we did our aluminum test We all had super high we thought was the lights in here, so maybe we're just getting rained on. We're getting Kim trailed like crazy, we don't even know it. So you know, okay, so here's why some of this isn't crazy. This is why it sounds crazy, because it's like, you know, it's not good for us. It does until, okay, it all sounds crazy until you see the stuff that the government's actually

admitted to doing, like things in the past. There's the Tuskegee syphilis experiments where they injected people with syphilis, didn't let them know what they were doing, just to see what would happen. They did plutonium experiments also, where they had people, they sprayed them with plutonium. Let's see what happens. They did mustard gas experiments.

Of course, Operation Midnight Climax, that's when they were giving a bunch of prostitutes and their schmoes or whatever mk ultra yeah there i mean there's a whole bunch in 1950 the arm the the u.s army was involved in an experiment to test the possibility of biological warfare they did so by releasing biological weapons into the streets of san francisco to to to test their effects i was in 1950 i mean these are all admitted things that they've done they They've done measles vaccine experiments. Right. In children. So that's why it's not that far-fetched as crazy as it sounds. Yeah. I think in fact, I believe there was one where there was a town where they did

spray some random chemicals and then they came in to see, let's see how everybody, let's see what happens here, dude. Dude, the GMO mosquitoes and everything they released and they, you know, I'm still skeptical about that because, you know. That sounds like a terrible idea. I know what the idea is. What's the super spreader of disease? Elsewhere.

That was the Florida thing. Wasn't that Florida? I think they're releasing them in other places. I think they're doing it. That was the one where they eat the other mosquito or eat certain bugs, right? No, what it is is they're modified so that when they make, they become sterile and they can't reproduce. So it's like it kills out the population.

Got it, yeah, outcompetes the population. Yeah, wow. That's the theory anyway. All right, all right, anyway, here's another thing that sounds like a weird description. I know, I had to. Here's another thing, but this is a study that just came out. This is a cool study you guys. They took people with heart disease and they had them all

sing music or sing music on their own to test the effects on heart health. Okay, I know it sounds weird. This study was carried out by researchers at the Medical College of Wisconsin. They wanted to find out what effect singing might have on cardiovascular health of people. And so they picked three different songs. I've heard this. Did you? Yeah, I've heard this is the,

there's like the way the crescendo is, it like does certain things. Well, so I don't know. So here's what they did. They picked three songs. Hey Jude, Jolene, and Amazing Grace. And everybody had to sing the songs for 10 minutes to see what would happen. The researchers measured vascular

function before and after each singing period. Guess which one of those songs had the greatest positive effect on health? Amazing Grace. Of course, by far. Amazing Grace is good for your heart to sing that. They compared the other songs to it, which is kind of cool. Very interesting, right? Those are the two good songs. Yeah, they're all great songs. I actually think that's a lost thing in our culture because essentially when you think about it,

that carried us so far. Singing? Yes. I mean, most all of- That's how we told stories. It is. The original way we learned anything and everything was through song.

And so, I mean, what made me think about that was, and I've shared this on the podcast, I told you my cousin who homeschools. Yeah. And I remember. Oh, she does that with a lot of them. Yeah, so part of their homeschool curriculum, they start them really, really early, like kindergarten,

and they teach them like two lines. It's very easy, right, for them at that age. And then like through their whole, like they build on the song. And then by the time they get into like high school, it's like a 10 minute song that they can sing. And it's like an entire timeline of history. And it's kind of cool to like listen to the kids

like sing it all, because they all know it really well. And because of it, they like, they remember very dates that I don't remember learning in school of wars and certain things that happen and certain, it's wild. Like, and it's like, of course, you know, but why don't, why have we lost that? Why is that not taught in every school? If that was how we all learned our entire-

It's a great question. And I mean, this reminds me of having, I've been having a lot of conversations lately with Everett about this kind of stuff. And he just like started a new school. And so it's all kind of, you know, top of mind for him. We got in this discussion about like, you know, what my philosophy was more like, tell me how to learn. Don't tell me what to learn, you know? And so he's like, what do you mean by that? And so we kind of got into that and, uh, you know what he's reading right now, which is kind of interesting.

Uh, cause I was kind of telling him a little bit about how Jim quick kind of highlighted some of the stuff on our show and was kind of talking about like how to remember things more vividly and how to use that as a skill and how to speed read and how to kind of do all this kind of stuff. And he's like, really? Like you can learn this stuff? And I'm like, yeah. And so he just started reading his book, Limitless. Oh really? And so he's like in chapter three and he comes back, he reports to me. Oh, that's great. It's he reads it and it's because he finishes his work before, you know, some of the other kids and they're like, okay, you can do that, but you got to read a book. And

so he's reading that book. Oh, that's awesome. Which I think is pretty interesting. Shout out to Jim. Shout out to Jim. Tell that you just reminded me, you actually reminded me of a funny story, but also to your point with that stuff.

So, Kuman is like that. So that's what my son is going through, reading like that right now. A lot of memorization and just familiarizing the kids with the words. And it is, it's teaching them how to learn how to read versus learning. It's like so different than how I was taught. It's fascinating to watch it unfold. And so last night, Katrina and I had a moment, we were both working and at the same time while he was home and had this moment of guilt

where he walked over and it was like, you guys are both working. And her and I both went, oh, so we both stopped. And she put down, she was doing, I instantly engaged with him. And then it was like, that's it. We got to get better about that. Obviously we all know that we're at a period of time in the business, there's a lot stuff going on. And so a lot more work is carrying home than usual. And so we had that moment. And so then the rest of the night, I was like fully engaged with him. And when I'm fully engaged with him like that, not only are we playing,

I'm also incorporating his Kuma and stuff. And I'm doing it with him and we're playing and it carries into the bathtub where I actually get in the bath with him. I've been in there in a while with him and I'm doing it. And he's learning like, I can say a letter and then I can challenge him to how many words start with that letter so it'll be like F you know and like oh flower friend

like and you see his brain working and like trying and like sounding it out in his head or out loud with that and like doing it with him and he looks at me goes last one and I go okay yeah and so then I thought he meant for that letter then I'm like okay like T now and he goes daddy are we gonna be done and I'm like what you are. You're not having fun. Daddy's having fun Like no, this is cutting into my playing time All right, buddy, we don't the learn anymore And you know Katrina and I sometimes he goes to school till late and then he goes to come on afterwards I'm like the kid is like learning for like fucking 12 hours in a day. And then,

and I'm like, I get fascinated with it. And so I'm into it and I'm doing it with them. And then he just, and he was such a sport. Yeah, he's going along and he's like trying to be a sport about it. And I'm like, he tried to encourage it. Daddy, he didn't mean this be the last one. Yeah. He's like, yeah, this is cutting into my plane. You're talking about singing. Jessica bought these devices that you could record your voice into, and it's got this big button on it.

So the kids, when they're in bed, if they want to hear her voice, they'll hit it and then she'll sing to them. And she thought this was a good idea. Well, anyway, we have them in the house. Jessica left. I was with the little ones. And my two-year-old is walking around the house and sees the button, and she already misses her mom when she's gone.

She hits the button, she hears her mom's voice, she picks it up, she's like, ah, she hits it again, ah, terrible idea. She just made her feel bad. I miss my mom. I mean, you probably figured this out too, because we've all, I mean, all of us have probably experienced this.

I remember when I thought it was a good idea that when I traveled for work that I would, you know, zoom in or call Max on the phone because I want to see him or I want to be and like that always it was it's better, at least I have experienced it's better for dad to be gone at work, completely gone and then dad comes home, than if he gets to see me but doesn't get to play with me and spend his time with me because Katrina would be like if He sees you it's such a it's more of a headache if I he knows daddy's working daddy's busy Daddy will be home then I can keep him busy distracted doing his thing

It's not a big deal But if he sees daddy it was always a hard thing for him to make that connection of like why can't I have him here? and so like we had to we had to learn to like because I used to want to even read to him even when I was Out of town and like she was just like we got to stop doing like, cause I used to want to even read to him even when I was out of town. And like, she was just like, we gotta stop doing this. This just makes my life miserable after. Yeah, yeah, it's all fun and games. When is he coming home?

Yeah, then she gets that and when's daddy coming? And then it's like, I don't want to go to bed. And it's like, oh yeah, okay. We just gotta pretend like daddy's coming home another day, you know. All right, so I'm gonna take a turn here. I've been reading about a chemical called acetaldehyde. This is the chemical that is a byproduct of alcohol.

All I did was look up acetaldehyde itself. Boy, that is some nasty stuff. I didn't know that it's also a carcinogen. It causes massive inflammation in the body. I'll pull it up for you. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's- Now, this is what, and correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what the product with Zbiotic

did was they actually made something that pairs and destroys that or absorbs it. How does it work? What's the science? Yeah, so acetaldehyde is a byproduct of the metabolism of alcohol. So when you consume alcohol, when it goes to your liver, your liver breaks it down. There's a couple enzymatic processes and they involve a couple enzymes plus glutathione. Now if you drink a lot of alcohol it overwhelms your liver. You get a buildup of acetaldehyde and then you feel like dog shit, you feel terrible. But some of the alcohol, some of it, you get

acetaldehyde in the gut as well before it even gets to the liver and this can cause a problem for a lot of people because the liver does a pretty damn good job unless you're pounding a lot of alcohol so the acetaldehyde released in the gut gets in the bloodstream and so then this is when you drink just a couple drinks and you're like I just kind of still feel off for three drinks you're like oh yeah what's going on and I bet certain people probably correct process it better than others that's right in fact as I'm reading this out of this these articles, there's a wide generic variance on how well some people

do versus others. So interesting. That makes so much sense why someone like me, who's like one or two drinks, just doesn't sit well with me. I'm like that. Someone like Katrina, I have seven and feel totally fine. I'm just like that. Katrina's my people.

So what Z-biotics is, it's a probiotic but the the bacteria were designed or engineered I should say, they're genetically modified to produce this enzyme that breaks down acetaldehyde. So you drink it then it sits in your gut, this bacteria sits in your gut and just produces this enzyme. You drink the alcohol, if you create any acetaldehyde in your gut, it gets broken down. It gets into benign parts. So this is why when you take it and you drink, you feel a lot better. Now is that similar to the science? I don't know if I'm going too far here for you or not, but is that similar to the science that

like antioxidants do with free radicals? Is that kind of the same concept? Different, but free radicals get neutralized by antioxidants. So, but they're not, it's not an enzymatic process. Okay, so it's not, that's not the same thing that's happening. No, this is literally, the acid aldol will get into your bloodstream and it's just not good for it. It's not good to have any of this, but if there's the, if there's particular enzymes that can break it down,

then it doesn't, that doesn't happen. Before it even gets there. And these, yes, and so what these bacteria do in the zibotic is literally, they've been engineered to produce this enzyme as they metabolize. So they're literally spitting out this enzyme continuously in your gut, and it stays in your gut

for hours, so you drink this and it lasts all night, and you'll break down this acetaldehyde buildup. Do to follow up with them business-wise. I'm curious to how they've been doing. I mean, yeah, I'm curious. I know they had some other products like in the pipes, you know, because they obviously they're doing genetic modified bacteria and there's all these

like cool attributes. Oh my God. I mean, we're investors. We should have, I can't remember the last time I seen a quarterly update on that. That's something I gotta reach out and do. Now I got another study for you guys. It's pretty cool.

Here's the title of it. You ready? Exercise improves cognitive function. okay, we know that, but only when you move by choice, huh? They actually, so here's the subtitle. Get chased? Voluntary exercise, that's a choice also. Rah!

Scared fitness, you ever see that video? Scared fitness, that was the chainsaw. Yeah, yeah. Show up and we'll see what you do. Here's a subtitle. Voluntary exercise improves cognitive performance while forced muscle movement via electrical stim does not. So they tested people moving their

squeezing their quads, flexing their muscles on their own, versus stim. Stim is a device that goes on your quad and makes your muscle flex. The cognitive benefits don't happen unless you cognitively are telling your muscle. You're not intrinsically involved.

So there's never gonna be a machine that is just gonna make you exercise. That'll give you all the same benefits. So along those lines though, I would love for you to go down the rabbit hole of the science in like, because that is making its way back to the bodybuilding fitness community

again. I don't know if you've been paying attention. It's actually not the e-stem but it's actually the and I don't know in combination with yes it's with exercise these guys and these are like smart bodybuilder dudes that I know they're just all like connected while they're doing squats while they're doing push-ups and it's like zapping them. I have seen that. I think I'd like to see the data on that compared to traditional exercise, because I think the reason why it's become, I don't know, somewhat popular, is because it's hard.

You know how it is. If I invented a machine right now, and I had my bodybuilder friends or fitness people- Just get a cattle prod. I know, like what the- No, it's 100%. If I invented a machine that was really hard, and I said my bodybuilder friends or fitness people. Just get a cattle prod. Try it. No, it's 100%. If I invented a machine that was really hard and I said, hey, try this.

You're good at bench press, try this bench press. Oh my God, it's hard. Oh, 100%. They're gonna talk about it, because it's really hard. So I think that's what it is. And they wanna put a video, I just did this and it sucked.

Yeah, I don't think there's anything supporting it. They're definitely trying to attach science to it though. They're trying to say that they're getting more benefits out of it otherwise. I wanna see end result benefits. They're trying to say that they're getting more benefits out of it. Otherwise I want to see end result benefits. They're trying to say more muscle recruitment or they'll justify it because of like the stimulation is probably like, like getting some kind of response, but it's like, it's again, you're, you're, you're not, uh, involved in that.

And so you're, you're not the one that's like actually generating that. So you're not going to be able to replicate that. I think there may be some benefit and some correctional exercise. So I thought that maybe like so that was like if you have difficulty connecting your muscles. That is definitely not how I'm seeing it's being used. I've definitely seen it's like jacked bodybuilder. Rehab for sure with help. But I could definitely see a I could see an application for it where it made sense where so I mean perfect example right now with rehabbing with having my pec right I'm completely out of alignment If I had to help get myself back with the scapulas if I had some sort of a stem thing firing while I'm doing it

I could see getting that assistance would help me better connect to rehab it quicker so I could I could I could see myself justifying everything but Primo shape version of me hooking myself up. It's entertaining to watch you see them do it it's really hard. Oh my god, it looks so tough. Then you try it. Wow, Frankenstein, dude. Yeah, and what always happens- Stem has been around for decades. I know. And let me tell you something right now, okay? Stem not only has been around for decades, but the Soviets, they studied Stem and anything. They studied everything. They came to athletic performance extensively. And what they came up with was athletic performance extensively and what they came up with was not STEM. What they came up with was periodization, strength training programming,

manipulating, yes, lots of steroids. They studied herbs. It's funny, the Soviets, you can really credit the Soviet Union for some of their studies on athletic performance and certain Herbs like rhodiola. They were big. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they were big on rhodiola. In fact I mean that was it the swim team where they was at the swim team that did that What was it? What was that? I thought was the Russian swim team did something crazy like that. No Germans East German swim team you never heard that story. They remind They showed up, I don't remember what Olympics it was, it was the East Germany,

which they were under the Soviet Union, right, East German women's swim team showed up and they were just, everybody's like, what is going on? Huge. Huge. And they dominated it. And they claimed it was like mushrooms or something. No, they said it.

What did they say? No, that was China later on. They said, oh, it's all secret training. But it turned out. Yeah, that was Cordyceps. Look up East Germany. Is that what it was? It was Cordyceps. I know it was one of the mushrooms, dude.

Yeah, that was the Chinese in 2007. No, this was, I don't know. Gymnastic team maybe? I want to look up when this was though, because you've got to look at this picture of these women. They were for sure on gear before anybody took steroids. They were like, oh, it's rhodiola. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. these are just strong East German women. The West German women don't look like this.

What the hell's going on? But they were used, did you pull it up, Doug? Yeah, I'm looking for it right now. Oh yeah, they look like, oh yeah, like if Justin put on a bathing suit. Nothing going on here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love to see here.

She's got a bulge. Yeah, I have to get a lot of duct tape. But rhodiola studies were pretty interesting. They studied rhodiola for their military, their Olympic teams and military. They wanted something that would give soldiers an advantage under extreme stress, cold, heat, exhaustion. And rhodiola, I mean, there's no miracle thing out there, but rhodiola, I mean there's no miracle thing out there, but rhodiola definitely delivers. If you look at the data on rhodiola and exercise

exhaustion, stamina, cognitive performance, it's like this really, it's okay, ashwagandha is one of my favorite adaptogens. Rhodiola is like its stimulant cousin. If they were related, ashwagandha relaxing, Rodeola stimulating. Kissing cousins. I, if you're really in tune with your workouts and your fatigue, how you feel. Oh yeah. They scrolled down from.

Wow. Yeah, and they just crushed everybody in that Olympics. If you're really in tune with your training routine and you know how you feel fatigue wise and you do a workout with rhodiola and without yeah you'll notice the difference. Yeah you will. That was like one of the I it's one of the few supplements that I could like tell. You did the red juice, the Organifi Red Juice. Yeah. Yeah. They have a good

amount. I mean so that's I mean that's one way to use it I always talk about using it as coming down off of caffeine. I think it's the to me for me it's the gold standard of okay if I'm coming down from my 600 milligrams caffeine and trying to come wean all the way off The I replace the the caffeine drinks with the red juice It's just it makes the coming off of caffeine a million times better to try that I think I'm due for that like just at least I was using it mainly when I was jumping over to cardio and like doing like hit sessions and stuff like that. Like I would use it to come off caffeine.

Use it to come off caffeine and it tastes good. So it's a nice replace. So it's not like it is awful thing. I got a drink, right? Because sometimes like the different like mushroom drinks and things that are out there and you know, but that tastes good. I mean, it helps because it's got some stimulating, um, properties. So if you take rhodiola, it's not caffeine.

So you're not going to get caffeine buzz, but you'll get a little bit of energy buzz. You'll feel it. Uh, so you'll feel like, Oh, I took something. Um, and then it helps the body adapt to stress. It's a, it's a classic adaptogen. So it is a great replacement for caffeine when you're coming off caffeine because when you come off caffeine, it sucks and the crash is terrible. You know, if you drink caffeine daily, you're going to deal with

at least a week of withdrawal. It's one of the worst withdrawals I've ever experienced. It's harder than coming off other stuff that I've tried to come off. And so it takes the edge off enough to give you that period of time where you get those receptors cleaned out, whatever, go back on the caffeine. The other option too, here's a great way to come off caffeine. I'll use Organifize Red Juice as a way you could do this. You take your normal dose of caffeine, let's say it's 300 mg or 200 mg,

cut it in half, add the red juice to it Then cut the caffeine in half again, maybe three four days later add a little bit more red juice and slowly Taper it. Yeah, I was gonna see about replacing like the last cup like I would normally do which is with red juice But yeah, you could probably just calm where where are you guys at with caffeine right now? I'm at peak What's your three energy drinks? 600 why do you say that's such a big deal? Yeah for you it's a lot. It's not that crazy. What about you? What about you? He's like crazy. Yeah I'm like Gramm. Seven probably. 700? Yeah. Wow. I mean I was at six but yeah probably at seven. If I go, if I go, if I go 400, if I go above 350, 400,

present your best. I start to crash. I can't do anything 400. So that's me 600 right? So I know I'm like I'm getting no benefits from it. It literally keeps me normal. But at least what happens, like at least now I've been here enough time that I'm smart enough to not go beyond because I've actually pushed beyond and I know that once I go over 600 I get not only zero effect, I get negative effects. So and I know that once I go over 600 I get not only zero effect I get negative effects. So and I believe that this there's this number for everybody. I believe that everybody has a caffeine number whether they're aware of it or not and it's unique to each

person you just said what yours 350 or so. Yeah about 350. Mine is 600. If I right now I'm getting no benefits from it it's keeping me normal but if I go any higher than that it'll give me negative benefits I'll actually get tired I if I had a good fight because I've already had that today if I were to drink another one right now feel with our Oh, I'll go Yes, that's where I know that's like, okay I do the drug addict thing though, and I just switch versions of it. Yeah, like I'll go like

Please do tell yeah, so you start with like some like coffee Please do tell. Yeah, so you start with like coffee for me. So you do colonoscopies with, or? I'm not doing the Ben Greenfield method. I haven't quite applied that one yet. But no, so you just change the different delivery. So I'll go Rockstar, then I'll go over to Nitro's, and then I'll do different versions of caffeine, like pills, and you're just kind of like,

well I'll do this for a while, and it's like totally worthless, I should just like scale it down. Well if caffeine were, I mean, if it were illegal, we would be, this is drugs, it's like how would we? No, I'm saying it's like a drug user. If it was found today, it would be illegal. It would be banned.

Yeah, it would be. 100%. You look at the hospital, you know how many hospital visits every year there are because of caffeine Isn't that kind of funny what a society we are like we like rain in society We make we make we demonize certain things and we all my god is so crazy bad But then there's something like that that we all just like totally and eight no big deal Let your five-year-old kid come in and order their Starbucks with you, too

You're a productive member of society, I mean, it's have you guys ever heard of the The image that's on the Starbucks. No. Oh Okay, you either one none of my conspiracy guys. No, no Oh pull up the image of what is the what the Starbucks Starbucks what logo? Yes, the Starbucks logo is supposed to be like a mermaid or yeah But it's a type of a mermaid and And what that symbol means, I think in Greek or something like that, is like basically, like basically entice you.

Oh, is it the sirens? Yes, the sirens. Oh, it's a siren. It's a siren. Wow. So they use their beauty to get you to lure you into the water so they could kill you. Yes.

Thanks, Starbucks. So that is what it is. It's supposed to be. And instead of- Here, it's good for you. Wow, it's a seductive mermaid from Greek mythology lures sailors to the deaths with her song Wow, you know when I was kind of interesting they choose that as their logo. No, you won't hear some marketing, right? I mean you won't hear something funny when I was 15. I saw an old painting of sirens

Luring a sailor in and the sirens were like topless, it's an old painting, they're in the water and they're luring a man. I remember, this is a 15 year old boy. So you ripped it out of the book. Yeah, listen, 15 year old boy, right? And I'm looking at this, I'm like, I would die. Like for sure I would go down there.

I would go, I would go, I would go. You win. Swimming. But they're gonna kill you, cool. I'll be in the water. That's funny, that's funny. All right, shout out. Shout out to our boy Jim Quick. Oh, okay. Yeah, I thought Justin in the water. That's funny. All right, shout out. Shout out to our boy Jim Quick. Okay.

Yeah, I thought Justin brought that up. I think Jim, and I believe Jim's an avid listener. I'm pretty sure he listens, so hopefully he'll hear the shout out. Hopefully he hears that, yeah. It's been cool. It'll be great when he gets through the whole book and then I'll report back. And honestly, I think what a great, this is like, that's something that you bringing that up reminds me of like, that'll be something I want to teach my son is like the skill of

learning. I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning. I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning. I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning. I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning. I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning. I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning. I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning.

I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning. I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning. I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning. I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning. I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning. I think that's something that I want to teach my son is like the skill of learning. I think what a great, this is like, that's something that you bringing that up, reminds me of like, that'll be something I wanna teach my son is like the skill of learning. Because that applies to all other avenues, right? So I think that's a super great shout out.

So Jim Quick, holler at him. I think his Instagram is Jim Quick, is it just Jim Quick? Can you see? Yeah, Jim Quick, last name spelled KWI. KWICK, I believe. CK, yeah. No, not CK, just K.

Just WIK. Element tea is an electrolyte powder that you put in your water. No artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and it can help prevent things like headaches, muscle cramps, fatigue, sleeplessness, and other common symptoms of electrolyte deficiency. Who has electrolyte deficiencies?

Well, if you don't eat a lot of processed foods, if you work out a lot, if you're in a low-carb diet, you probably need more electrolytes. And let me tell you, you'll know if this is you. You'll try one packet of LM&T and you'll feel a difference. Go check them out. Go to drinklmnt.com forward slash mind pump and on that link you get a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Amberly from Florida. Amberly, what's happening? Hello. Hello. How are you guys? We're doing all right. Great. How are you? Excited now that you're on. How can we help you? Yeah. So I just wanted to ask a question about proper protein and

calorie intake and a workout routine for someone who has a history of fatigue and weakness and almost zero knowledge of working out. And when I mean zero knowledge, I mean you guys had mentioned box squats on a couple episodes, again, I had to Google them. So I'm 34 years old. I'm of average build, five, seven, 148 pounds. I have been a vegetarian for most of my life since I was 12 years old.

During that time I had almost zero energy. I had to prioritize things based off of how much energy I had. I had a hard time going to work, let alone just like working out and doing extracurricular activities. It wasn't until about two years ago that my wife told me that I should probably go to the doctor for it and they told me that my iron levels were the issue. So I started taking iron pills and I went from feeling like I had to tread water every day to like doing things normally. And I was really excited about that and I wanted to get into shape. So in October 2023, I decided to work out five days a week, but quickly realized that that routine quickly wore me out. And then I found that doing strength training exercises were more manageable for

me. So I continue to do that for three months, but I saw little change. I got a bit stronger going from like five pound dumbbells to like eight pound dumbbells, but not much else. I decided to reduce my routine to working out twice a week and asked advice from anyone I met about different routines and what I could be doing wrong. Around May, I found a community coach who asked me how much protein and calories I was eating a day. And I told him I was eating about 30 grams of protein

and about 700 calories. He told me to double my calories and to eat about a hundred grams of protein. And around the same time, I had a friend tell me that I might be overtraining and to listen to your podcast and to do one of the programs that you offered. So I started doing the aesthetics program and started listening to your podcast and doing about finding that three days a week of the aesthetics program was a little difficult. So I noticed after I also noticed that after I increased my calories and protein, I started

gaining weight in my stomach and hip areas So I just wanted to know just general advice like am I eating the right amount of protein? Am I doing the right workout for me? Anything would be appreciated. Awesome. Okay. There's a lot to unpack here. So first off, are you still a vegetarian? Yes, okay, and are are you open to eating animal sources of protein or is that a no-no? And it's okay if it is. Yeah, I would really prefer not to. No worries.

Okay. And your iron is now back to normal? Yes. Have you had your B vitamins tested? I have not had B vitamins tested. I would get your B vitamins also test. So that's, so the common deficiencies and deficiencies in vegetarians are, tend to be pretty specific. They tend to be either iron, B vitamins, choline is another one that I would look at. Would you be open to

taking fish oil capsules or is that off the table as well? No? I can try. Okay. I would like to see you take take so here's some supplements that I think may have be of value to you a good complex You know B vitamin supplement And again get it tested on top of it. Probably won't hurt to take it because they're water-soluble but I've worked with a lot of vegans and vegetarians and Iron B vitamins oftentimes makes a big difference. Choline is another one. And then fish oil is another one. And then lastly, creatine.

Those supplements are valuable for most people, but nutrient deficiencies in vegans and vegetarians tend to be, like I said, B vitamins and iron. And if those are, like you experienced with iron, because your iron was low, as soon as you took it it was like oh my god I'm like this is way different if your B vitamins are low and you supplement you'll notice the same thing like another level up like oh my god this is great creatine everybody benefits from taking creatine for the most part it's a

healthy supplement it's good for the brain it's good for the organs definitely good for muscle you'll gain maybe a pound or two on the scale. Don't worry, it's hydration within the muscle. So it's not body fat, it's actually lean body mass. Your cognitive function will probably improve. And we see more benefits with vegans and vegetarians than we do with omnivores because the main source of dietary creatine is animal sources. Otherwise, your body has to take amino acids and turn it into

creatine itself and that just results in less creatine. Creatine is needed to produce certain essential forms of energy. So that I think should make a big difference. And then fish oil. Certain fatty acids tend to be low in vegan vegetarian diets and so supplementing with fish oil tends to make a big difference in how someone feels. Now let's talk about where I think a couple of big mistakes you made. You were over-training before, so then you decided to get one of our programs and you chose one of the highest volume programs that we have.

The worst one. So, so if you're like, if you're already over-training, you're guaranteed to over-train by doing maps aesthetic. I think that can, based off of what you're telling me, I think you're going to get phenomenal results doing a program like maps 15. I think maps 15, uh, it's, it's a five day a week program, but you're only doing two exercises a day. You're going to the gym.

It'll take you about 20 minutes. I think you're going to see immediate strength gains from doing that. I don't think your, I think your protein intake and your calories are fine. In fact, I still think they're low, but I re I think that one of the reasons why you saw fat gain was your metabolism is slow and your metabolism is slow. It's probably because you've lost a lot of muscle mass and you've reduced your metabolic rate through years and years of being, you know, nutrient deficient and not being able to strength train.

So I think the advice of going up to, uh, let's see, what's your target body weight? What would be a good body weight for you at your height? I think a hundred and I think 120 to 130 grams of protein a day would be fine for someone like you. Um, so I would aim for that. Just aim for that. Don't worry about the calories, but try and hit those grams of protein and try and do it from whole natural food. Although I know that can be hard as a vegetarian. What are your main protein sources when it comes to food?

Yeah, they're fake. The fake meat, like Beyond Meat, Impossible Meat. Okay. And then protein bars. Okay. And you don't do dairy either, right? No. No. Okay. Okay. That then protein bars. Okay and you don't do dairy either right? No. No okay. Okay that's fine. Would you do a vegan vegetarian protein shake? Yeah. Okay Organifi makes a really good one. I like their protein shake and it's better than the fake meat. Okay. So try to get it from natural

sources but it's going to be kind of hard as you know. Nuts, seeds, legumes, that kind of stuff. Add probably probably gonna have to add two servings of Organifi's protein. I like their blend. It's organic. There's no artificial sweeteners. I mean I can't have dairy typically so that's the one I use anyway. Hit those protein targets. Work MAPS-15, take those supplements, get your B vitamins tested, and I think what you'll see is probably within the first week or two, strength gains. And you'll see nice consistent strength gains for a while.

For like three, four months, you'll see yourself get stronger on a pretty regular basis. I think you just took that one. I know, you just took that one right. You ran right that one. Yeah. MAPS-15, you'll like'll like mass 15 though, because of the simplicity of it, especially if this is kind of a new thing

that you're embarking on. So, you know, maps, maps, aesthetic is very, you know, very comprehensive, has lots of volume, lots of exercises. So this kind of dwindles it down to a few exercises you can focus on, you get good at the skill of those exercises. And, you know, and just the repeated consistency of it builds a lot of momentum, so you're gonna see a lot of energy gains from that and strength over time,

so it's definitely the perfect program for you, but yeah, I mean, pretty much everything else. I mean, it is an actual dramatic reduction from what you were doing. Big time. So the one thing that I would add is just resist the temptation to want to do more. So you'll probably have a moment where you're like, this is it, or I could do more. I feel good. So let's go that way. And don't, because you feel good, don't go out and

think, oh, doing more is going to be better for me. That's a great prescription for you. Getting you up there protein wise, following a program like that. You don't need to be crushing in the gym, just touching those weights and we need to build some muscle. And this is what's going to send the signal to do that. If you're consistently hitting that protein intake while also following a program like this, you're going to get stronger. You're going to build muscle. You're going to speed the metabolism up and you should be feeling better week over week and just resist the temptation to try and do more because you think that is a better idea. You should feel like you can do more.

You should feel lots of energy to want to work out more. That's a good feeling. That doesn't mean you're doing too little. So what Adam's saying, I can't stress that enough because I think a lot of people think the way they should feel after the workout is like, oh, I just survived that. I just beat that up. No, no, no. You should walk out of the gym and be like, well, I just survived that, I just beat that up. No, no, no, you should walk out of the gym, be like, whoa, I feel better than I did when I walked in.

That's a good sign. Because remember, all you're doing with your workout is you're sending a signal for your body to do something during the recovery process. The workout itself isn't building muscle, it's not making you stronger, it's actually damage. It's actually a stress. So you should feel good, which means you're probably doing the appropriate level of stress. You know one supplement I didn't

say that I think might benefit you as well are essential amino acids just because of the the challenges with getting enough protein. And you can literally buy essential amino acid. You could buy vegan forms of this and you could take like three tablets with every meal and that'll improve what's known as the Protein score of your overall meal because these are the amino acids your body can't Produce that you need from food and they tend to be lower In certain types of proteins in particular Vegan forms so you would just take a few tablets with your miss

I've worked with some pretty hardcore vegans and the supplements that I mentioned were almost always game changers, like almost always. But I will say this to you too, Amberlee. I did in my whole 20 plus years of training clients, I had, like I said, I worked with a lot of vegans that I can think of right, two that eventually had to add some animal sources because even with the supplements and everything, they were working with a functional medicine practitioner, it just wasn't working, but that's a small percentage of the people I worked with, so I think you'll probably be okay.

Okay, cool. And then follow up question, I'm eating that protein even when I'm not working out, right? Yep, yes. Yes, you wanna hit your protein targets every day. Okay perfect. Yeah well that was all. That's it so you'll be seeing your strength gains go up pretty consistently but get that get your nutrient levels tested make sure there's no other nutrient deficiencies. Amberley how long have you been listening to the show for now? Um since like May. Okay oh cool yeah awesome. I'd love some follow-up. Let us know in like a couple months how you're doing

Okay, sure, please. Thank you so much. Thanks, Amberlee. Thank you. I Remember the one client in particular it was so hard man. We were working with this we saw nutrient deficiencies We tried to fill it with supplements. It's so hard levels went up But she still felt like dogs so hard for me to resist not asking why. Yeah. For people, I can guess, but I might be wrong, but people who stay vegan that long, it's typically moral reasons. It's not for health.

I mean, that's the only way I can see it. Yeah. Yeah, justify. But that's why I wanna ask, cause I wanna hear that. Yeah. Like, okay, you say that's fine. I'm not gonna try and come back.

Yeah, then you're not gonna prod more. Who am I and say that it's, you know, your morals are different than mine. There's nothing wrong with that at all. And so I respect that, but it's normally not that Sal. Well, that that's a long time, 12 to 34, the data, like people who do it for health, they fall off like any other diet. People who stay to it, it's either religious or moral. It's just crazy how we stay to stuff like that and our body is telling us, sending all these signs to us

how unhealthy it is for us. Listen, I had a client, I remember this, it was for moral reasons for her, and we did everything we possibly could, and you know what the conversation was? We sat down and I said, look, at the end of the day, the animal you have to take care of first before you can do anything good in the world is you,

and you're suffering right now. So she agreed finally to add eggs to her diet. And it was like she took a miracle. Like it was like night and day difference from doing that within a couple weeks. But it was a tough one. It was like the gateway food. It's like the only one.

I had the similar experience and it was like literally just please at least consider. And then it was huge in terms of cognitive function and energy and everything else. But it's just like, that's just one little small step. And I was trying to do it through supplements. It's like choline, that's what you get in the A. Protein, that's what you need.

I only had a small percentage of them that actually did it for moral reasons. Most of the people that I trained that were doing it thought it was a healthier, thought it was a- Thought it was convinced. Yeah. That's why it's hard for them. Better for them.

Of course, that's my own bias, right? If I trained 50 of those clients and 45 of them were thinking that it was a healthy, better diet or thinking it's helping the environment. Like they were going in that direction. Maybe five of them were like morally. And then again, if it's morally, I get it. I'm not even gonna try and challenge it, but when you think that it's a healthier, better diet, it's not.

It's not. It's not at all, and the data, here's the fact. A healthy vegan diet requires far more careful planning than a healthy omnivore diet. And the nutrient deficiency rate in a healthy vegan diet is much higher. That's just a fact. It's an objective fact. Can you do it? You can, but it's a, it's much more challenging.

The ingredients in the fake meat. Oh, well, that's the part that I was so challenged with. And then you know, it's very tough. And then, but then you eat something that that is like like a hamburger. It's just weird to me. If you believe you know it more out if it's a moral thing and killing an animal is like killing a human then yeah then you're willing to make yourself feel like shit I guess. Our next caller is Justin from Florida. What up Justin? Yo! What's going on? Hey how's it going? Good man. Great to be able to talk to you guys. Thank you. How can we help you?

So earlier this year I Was Me and my wife were trying to have a child So we started the process of I was doing blood work trying to figure out what was going on and Found out my testosterone was nearly 162. It was just really low. We started taking Clomaphene to raise my testosterone. I also started going to the gym as the doctor said, working out will help raise my testosterone.

And I kind of got carried away with the gym really enjoying the fact of having testosterone finally, even though it's only 500 averaging. And I got so carried away with the gym that my recent blog work actually shows my testosterone infertility back to square one. And I'm just curious on how I should approach this, if I should push the fitness aside for a little while and focus more on health and fertility. No, you you you sounds like you did this you were low, you

started lifting, it went the right direction, you probably were over training and it came back the other direction like lifting is actually going to support this. Are you staying on in clomaphene the whole time? Yes. Okay. I also see that you you cut your calories. Yeah. You want to cut on a deficit. Yes. That was a recent thing I tried trying to lose a little bit more weight, a little more fat and that's when I saw the test results come back negative. Yeah. So over training with low calorie is a recipe for low testosterone.

I care. A hundred percent. Big factors that. Yeah. You should probably be lifting. If you're going to go to the gym and do a full workout, like two days a week, maps on a ball of two days a week is perfect. Get stronger and don't go on a deficit.

If you want to get leaner, just eat it like a little bit above maintenance and try and build a metabolism to get leaner. But I wouldn't go into calorie deficit, especially if you're looking at fertility. So as for everything I've seen for maintenance calories, I am 24 and I'm 5'10". I work in construction, so I'm somewhat active throughout the day and everything recommends around 22 to 2,500. And I'm just curious if you work out on top of that, if I should maybe bump it a little more or?

An easier way to do this is eat when you're hungry, eat whole foods, hit your protein intake. Like I wouldn't, one, those things are guesstimating and they could be right on for you. They could be way off. And so it doesn't really matter to me what all the tool, even the tools that we have on the internet to support and help people. If you were my client and this is our goal is you'd like to be leaner and fitter. You want to be stronger. You want to increase your testosterone.

I'm training you two days a week, full body. We're not crushing it in the gym. We're always leaving two sets or two reps short of failure. I want you to eat when you're hungry, make good food choices, meaning eat whole foods and hit your protein intake. And I'm not going to really sweat if that's 2,400 calories or 3,200 calories. I'm going to go off of how you feel and your appetite and your strength. And I'm not trying to cut. I'm not trying to bulk calories I'm gonna go off of how you feel and your appetite and your strength and I'm not trying to cut I'm not trying to bulk I'm trying to feed you when you're hungry and make good food choices and hit your protein intake

That'll do that'll do what we need to do. Did you do it? Did you test for the nutrient efficiencies Justin? Yes, I'm actually pretty good and everything. Okay good My vitamin D was a little low, but I do take supplements for that now. Okay. Now they didn't put you on HCG too, huh? No, I originally started with, uh, Tomoxapine and a national, but I had some negative, uh, 1200. I was feeling like I was, I was, I mean, why did they go there? But I had the negative side effects. Yeah.

I don't know even know why they went that well so tamoxifen will was it will block the estrogen receptor and that can raise the soft run. You stop the conversion to estrogen maybe his estrogen was high or maybe to continue to add more. Are you going are you going through MP hormones you doing somebody else? I'm sorry? Are you going through MP hormones? Are you going through are you going through us or you going through somebody else? I'm going through someone else. Are you going through mp hormones? Are you going through are you going through us? Are you going through somebody else? I'm going there someone else. Are you doing cloma? Yes Are you doing clomophene or n-chromophene?

Clomophene Okay, look we're not doctors. Okay, but what you can do when you get off here is look up Clomophene versus n-chromophene and clomophene is en and then the same word and I would also look up HComophene versus n-clomophene. n-clomophene is E-N and then the same word. And I would also look up HCG. Like from my understanding the the best fertility protocol, especially for sperm count for a man, is n-clomophene plus HCG. I mean I know guys on testosterone, taking testosterone. I was one of them. I was on testosterone, but because I use HCG, also I got my wife pregnant on accident. So I would look up and clomophene versus clomophene and then look at HCG.

Like that's the protocol, the current protocol that I'm hearing, a reading about to be the best for fertility. But as far as workouts are concerned, less is better. Just get stronger. Eat whole natural foods. Don't avoid food. Eat when you're hungry. Hit your protein targets. That's the recipe. And then get good sleep, get sunlight. But you're already a construction worker so you're going to get some good vipers. Yeah, I definitely hit my protein. I average about you know 190 grams a day.

Good. I eat a lot of chicken breast and ground beef. Okay good and then your sleep is good? Oh yeah I usually get I average about seven and a half to eight hours. Okay yeah it's your workout. I think you were over training. Do you have MAPS anabolic? No I don't. I was I guess originally my plan wasn't to go full fitness it was just casual gym to get my blood flow in and help out so I was just following I have an app that I was just give me a workout keep me on routine no I'm gonna send you maps anabolic follow maps and a ball program is what you need you'll get stronger on that for sure two days a week the two-day week option just start there. That's it

That's plenty. Don't try and do anything. Definitely cut off Definitely cut off my third day because I averaged between two to three is what I overshot for two is fine Yeah, what you're dealing with do two. Yeah, totally All right, all right, man, good luck. God bless. You guys get pregnant. Let us know. That's exciting. I think you will. Oh, we're trying.

Best part is two years now. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. I think you'll get there, bro. But just, yeah. And then look up those things that I said and bring them up to your doctor. And if you want a second opinion, we have partners at nphorm NP hormones calm that are like cutting edge

and see what they say all right appreciate it you got it man thank you that's an old protocol I old protocol master's all so yeah that's the block the converter I know what it's for I take it I know exactly what so that that is like a general practitioner and not like a hormone specialist. The old protocol for fertility for men. So it's interesting, so clomophene is clomid. Clomid was a fertility,

it's a serum that was for women and they would give it to men to raise their testosterone. You could do the same thing with noladex, which was tamoxifen, but they both have kind of nasty side effects, and Clomaphene has less of those side effects, and the data that I've seen raises testosterone more. And then HCG, that'll make you make sperm.

I've heard that, yeah. Yeah, so I'm curious, especially if he's trying to have a kid, why they didn't do those two things. Maybe because the doctor's like, let's see if this works, I don't know. Well, HCG is the answer for this. I mean, again, we're not doctors, but I'm telling you right now,

when I was going through all this fertility stuff, I remember after taking just two shots of HCG, literally it got all the nurses and doctors around to talk all about my sperm count. I'm serious, it was like, You guys, you guys see this. Katrina was just like, holy crap, everybody was talking about your sperm count

It feels good Bunch of nurses talking about I mean, I wish I could take the credit there's that guy with that high sperm count It's effective it's very effective so I'm surprised they don't I got my wife accidentally pregnant on that while on testosterone Yeah, and I wasn't even taking a lot of it's very effective. So I'm surprised they don't have them on that. Our next caller is Natalie from Canada. Hi Natalie. How can we help you? Hi guys.

So good to see you in person. Thank you. All right. How can we help you? I first wanted to thank you for all that you do and also help my chronic lower back pain ever since did your anabolic and other programs, I completely have no more back pain, lower back pain that I would have to a car factor. Awesome. Completely recommend it to anyone who has this problem like

me. I just don't have that. So I start from my notes. So I'm 42 years old, five, four and 171 pound. Some medical background, I have large fibroids outside my uterus and high prolactin. And because my prolactin has been high for the last couple of years, my endo doctor prescribed a medication and a side effect of that medication was that I gained 30 pounds in one year. And I was always active.

I was playing boxing. I always played soccer. So I was always a cardio junkie, if you will, and I was always fit. So I never had any weight gain problem. And ever since I'm trying to lose that 30 pound weight and the food body that I used to have, so to do that, to lose that, I started doing the biggest mistake I ever did, 24 intermediate fasting, and I was doing the biggest mistake I heard it did 24 intermediate fasting and I was doing the each body six days a week all at the same time that I was doing that and I lost my sleep and forget after a couple of months and didn't lose any way, but I think I lost lots of muscle.

And then in 2023, I found my pop and started a new anabolic. I got so much stronger and then my body composition definitely improved. And then last year this time I ran calorie deficit and lost 10 pounds and based on you guys' recommendation to other people, for the first time I did reverse dieting for six months back in December of this year, I mean last year, and then up my calorie to 2,700 calories and my maintenance changed to 2400. And then when I was doing reverse diet, I changed to performance. And now like since June, I've tried again after reverse diet, I tried cutting to 1900. But since June 10th until now, I've only lost 1.76 pounds, which is nothing.

And I don't see any change in my physical changes to my hand size or body either. My quads are still big and my shoulders don't have definition, even though I have the muscle, but I don't see any definition to see that. And I'm right now that I'm in calorie deficit, I'm doing performance twice a week, I walk 7,000 steps a day and I play soccer once, one hour a week. I'm sure they can let me know what I'm doing wrong or if I'm wrong, I just have to be more patient. I think what's happening. If, um, how's your health otherwise? How's your energy and sleep and all that?

Over my sleep is perfect, but in the past two or three days, I noticed I don't have an appetite when I wake up. Like, so I don't even crave eating my eggs and like any breakfast at all. I don't know if you tell me if I hit plateau or something like that, but I was good. Like I might sleep is good, otherwise than everything else. How's your stress? It's good.

I'm a teacher so I'm on my summer break. Okay. Yeah, so what it sounds like is your metabolism is adapting very quickly to the deficit. And so- Ran a reverse diet longer. Yeah. When I work with people like this, what we tend to do is, because this can happen sometimes

and it can feel very frustrating. It's like, what is going on? My body doesn't respond. I was eating, like you said, 2,700 calories. You drop down to 19. You would expect to see some changes, but your body's adapting very quickly to the reduced calories. What I would do with clients like this,

because you can continue reverse dieting, but that can be tough too, 2700 calories is a lot. And so you might be like, oh my God, I'm full. What I would do with these people is I'd bring them at maintenance and I wouldn't even worry about their weight and we would just continue to get them stronger and continue to improve their health. And then slowly over time, things start to work

in our favor, but it's gonna take a little bit of time. If you're cutting down to 1,900 from 27, not seeing anything move, that probably means we need to stay in that kind of building and rebuilding your health stage longer than you've been doing before we try to lose any weight. There is another thing too that I'd want to ask and potentially address.

I know you said like you didn't have an appetite this morning, so you didn't have the energy to probably even eat your eggs. How consistent are you with hitting your protein intake? Like hitting the numbers that you should be at every day? So based on my target weight that you guys recommended and one gram of protein, I should be hitting 140. I'm usually full and can do more than 110,

but I'm very consistent on that. Like 110 minimum every day I do that. Okay, that's not bad. That's not bad. That's not bad. It's not bad so long as that's the consistent thing and you don't hit 70 and 60 some days and then other days you hit 110.

I would, I think at this point, like if you were my client, what I would, first off I'd have you work with a functional medicine practitioner if you haven't already, just to look, run some labs, make sure everything's okay and healthy. And then I would just say, look, here's what we're gonna do for a while.

We're just gonna keep you healthy, we're gonna keep you fed, I We're just gonna keep you healthy. We're gonna keep you fed. I'm not gonna reverse diet you necessarily, but I'm definitely not gonna cut you. And we're just gonna try and improve our fitness. Let's just try to improve our strength, our performance, maybe increase our steps a little bit, but not chase weight loss until your body starts to show you

that it wants to lose weight. And the way it's gonna look is you'll're going to, you'll eat at maintenance and you'll train and you'll get stronger and you'll feel good. And then you'll start to get leaner on your own. In which case I'm like, okay, things now are starting to move in the right direction, but it might take, might take a little while. Are you still by the way, on the medication that you were taking that caused the weight gain in the first place?

No, after one year I begged my doctor to switch it away. And then after she switched it, at least when I try to lose weight, at least I can lose weight. So no, thankfully I'm not on that anymore. Okay. But do you suggest to, now that I'm being on performance since March,

do you suggest me I switch the programming too, or? You can. Stay on it. Performance is good, maps anabolic is good, maps strong is good, maps symmetry, those are all good. Did you finish mass performance already? Yes. Oh yeah, let's see.

Because I'm on class, I'm doing twice a day, twice a week on the phase four of the Performance which is the easier part of it. I guess yeah, let's go. Let's switch you to another program I think you would like map symmetry. I think that'd be a good program Bump your calories up to maintenance Which which probably would assume around 2400? Yeah, maybe 2400 2300 calories and then just try to get stronger and then um i would i think you should work with a functional medicine practitioner just to see if there's any lingering hormonal effects that were caused by the medication you were taking based on the blood test that i did

on um july my hormones are all balanced. Uh, and my doctor said so too, but only the prolactin is high. I don't know how, what is that effect on the body, but like my prolactin is still very high. Yeah. Have you, have you looked at your thyroid antibodies? Cause I'm sure you got your TSH. That is normal. Okay.

So no, okay. No gut health issues either. I say gut is what I mean. Okay. I mean, functional. No gut health issues either. I say gut is what I mean. Okay. I mean, functional medicine practitioners can tend, can sometimes find things that traditional doctors don't, but I'm not necessarily saying there's something wrong. I've worked with people like you and it's just, we just had to stay on getting more fit and strong and not worrying about the scale.

And then what usually happens, actually every time happened, was at some point their body just started to switch on and then we're like, okay, the signs are good. Now let's see if we can cut. And then it worked. I mean, I had one lady I trained for a year and a half like that before we were even tried to lose any weight. And it took that long before her body really started moving the right direction.

And then do you, do you think by doing that my body composition really? Yep. I don't care as much about the weight now as long as my body. Slowly but surely. And you should actually see that sooner than later, right? I think that's one of the positive things about a situation like this. I also have experienced this with clients with their body just adapts really quick. Really to me, the way I'd explain to my clients like your body's just telling us it needs and wants more calories. It needs and wants more

calories for what we're trying to do to it. So let's give it instead of depriving it all the time, let's give it what it needs and then if we do a good job it should slowly build muscle which in turn will speed up the metabolism which in turn will slowly lean you out. And so it's a very slow process in regards to the scale but as we would test like circumference or body fat percentage once a month, we would see this progress. And so it always reminder like, hey, this is great news. We're moving the right way. Yeah, I know the scale isn't swinging hard, but I'm seeing inches come off your waist.

I'm seeing you actually moving in the right direction with lean body mass. We're doing great. Your body is responding well. So that's something that I would pay attention to. Or you maybe just do a circumference on your waist or maybe see if you can get some body fat testing once a month, just so you know that you're probably on the right place. Yeah, I mean, I could come up with a few theories

as to why this happens to some people. In my experience, it was people that did really aggressive dieting in the past. And so for whatever reason they their bodies just adapted to reduction in calories very rapidly But I don't know. I don't know necessarily why this happens to some people I think it has something to do with that. Maybe when you were doing that lot those long fasts You know, maybe that in combination with their the medication you're on but in all cases it was like okay Like our body is saying your body saying, it's not going to respond.

So let's just improve your health. Let's just get you healthy. Let's just keep working on your fitness. Let's keep getting you stronger. Let's change our focus to like, can we get you stronger on certain lifts, get you feeling good? And then like clockwork, uh, the, their body would start to show signs that it was ready to go. But it would take a little while. Okay sure and thank you so much and then one last question. I haven't been able to, strength wise, I haven't been able to lift a heavier weight more than 40 pounds that I'm lifting right now.

Should I try to lift just a bit heavier? It's been a couple of, it's been like eight months that I haven't been able to. Are you, are you afraid of going heavier? Or does it feel like you can't? I feel like I can't, especially when the reps are higher, like for example, performance compared to anabolic was much more reps, right? Okay, I'm going to give you a tip that should really help you right here. Okay, so in our programs, you know there's going to be like certain phases where it calls

for 10 reps or 15 reps or things like that. When I have someone like you, I actually care less about you hitting the target 10 reps as much as I care about adding more weight. So I would prefer you choose a weight that's so heavy that you have to stop at 8 reps because it's so heavy, then to pick a weight that you could easily do 10 or you know for sure you could get 10. And I don't care if you don't get 10. It's okay we didn't get 10 because I really want you to push, push the weight. I think your body, especially if we're feeding it now, we're giving it maintenance calories and we're pushing that strength, I think that you're gonna see your body, especially if we're feeding it now, we're giving it maintenance calories, and we're pushing that strength,

I think that you're gonna see your body respond a lot. If you've also kind of leveled out on your weight, and we're not really progressive overloading the body anymore, it is also probably adapted to that, and so that's part of why it's not changing. Probably a reason why you're not hungry in the morning too. Thank you so much. Yes, that will help. Literally, your goal, you remember that. As you're not hungry in the morning too. Thank you so much. Yes, that will help.

Literally, your goal, you remember that. As you're getting under that bar, you're about to lift it. Adam says, it doesn't matter if I don't hit 10, but I want to lift more weight today, so I'm going to put as much as I can on it. If I only get six or eight, no big deal. That's not a big deal. I don't care. I care more that you've added five or 10 pounds to that bar that you've never done before.

That's going to serve us. Got it. Thank you so much Alan. Yes. I appreciate it. You got it. You got it. And by the way, if you follow MAPS symmetry and you're not getting stronger consistently, I suggest you go to MAPS 15. Okay, so if you're not getting stronger within the first couple weeks, then let's go to maps 15 and do that. Okay. Cause if you're not getting stronger than something's not right. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Take care. Those are the most I had one. I mean, I was just talking about her. It was frustrating. Bro, we would reverse diet or cut her calories.

So glad though she shared what she shared right there at the end because that will also contribute to this. Eight months. Yeah. Eight months of lifting the exact same weight. Her body is so adapted to that, that just, and then cutting the calories is not, it's not. You're not progressively.

Not at all. And literally this is what I would do with someone like that. Like she'd be like, all right, we got 10 reps. Oh, I don't know if I can do that. It's all right. I don't care. We stop at five or six. I don't care. Let's put a weight on that bar you've never done before and let's get after, hope we hit

that 10. And if you have to stop at six, we stop at six. The intention is challenging yourself with more increased load. That's right. And that alone, I think, will do. By the way, it can't be overstated because I've worked with female clients who are simply getting challenged by me as their trainer got them stronger. Yeah This is where the tremendous value if she hears this You know you want to talk about things that I would consider investing in this is we're having a coach or a trainer Oh, yeah, that way you feel safe

And you got a spotter and you got them there to push you because that extra push is really gonna help her get over this Plateau our next color is Mackenzie from New York. Mackenzie, what's happening? Hello. Hi there. How are you all? Good. How are you? Great. Good. I just want to thank you all so much. I am a triathlon and nutrition coach. And so

everything I basically send in my newsletters each week is from your all's information from the podcast. So you all make my job a lot easier. I love hearing when coaches and trainers use that. I think it's hilarious when they don't. I'm like, I would totally use all of our stuff. Yeah, I rip it all off. That's good. All right.

So I'll, I'll jump into it. So as a nutrition coach, and this is going to be a little bit more geared towards nutrition coaching, um, I've got a few ladies who are in their 60 plus range and I'm working with them on their nutrition programming, but I've had a hard time getting the scale to move for them without cutting their calories so drastically low. So a lot of them, I mean, my mom is in this group as well. That group is like, well, you just don't eat if you want to lose weight. And I feel like that's been their mentality for years and years.

And so I'm trying to get them to do resistance training, get them on a really good macro protein goal, setting that really high. But we're just having, I'm having a hard time with some of these ladies actually getting the scale to budge. And I didn't know if you guys had any insights or help in this. I think it's been about like 12 weeks or so that I'm working with them and they want immediate results which I completely understand. But I feel like sometimes it may take a little bit longer.

So just wanted to see if you guys had any help or insights in this case. Are these triathletes? Are they running by? These are actually not triathletes. So these are just women who found me through nutrition programming. Well, first of all, you got to get the enemy out of this picture, which is the scale. Yeah. Because you're gonna be fighting the scale this whole time. It's gonna make, it's gonna tell them,'s going to tell them the opposite of what you're saying. So you're going to say to them, we got to build muscle, we got to speed up your metabolism, we need to feed you properly, and then they're going to weigh themselves every day and say,

it's not going down, you're lying. And you're going to be fighting with them constantly. So what I would do is say, and I would communicate that. And I used to say funny things to people Like I'd say, you know, let's cut your leg off. We lost 20 pounds. They'd laugh It's not measuring anything but body mass So I would switch it to body fat testing and I would do a body fat test, you know with with caliper Do you see them person? I

Don't see some of them I do but some of them I don't so it's a good mix So you can use circumference or you can do calipers but test body fat percentage because and you know you can explain to this you can explain this to them and you say look if you lost ten pounds of body fat and replace it with ten pounds of muscle you'd be smaller because muscle is more dense but you'd also have a faster metabolism and you'd look a lot better because muscle shapes the body fat just kind of sits everywhere but but the body fat test tells you a lot because

Two in every two weeks you could test their body fat and go wow you went down You went down a half percent and then I would do the numbers and I'd show them You lost this much body fat even though your weight is the same. Oh my god. That's great You know type of deal so I would get rid of the scale is a big one. Oh, okay, so a lot, this is something that we talk in our coaching program about because to me this is like the real stuff that coaches and trainers get challenged with

that national search don't tell you like, okay, how do you deal with a situation like this? And a big way to handle this, Mackenzie, is actually being able to forecast this before people. Like I always had a hard time as a coach and a trainer like when this came up and it would happen and then it's like, you know, they're already frustrated because they're not seeing the scale go down,

they're doing all this work and then I'm trying to explain versus when I start them, day one on the program and I tell them what we're gonna do and then I tell them what's going to happen in a couple weeks down the road is you're gonna come to me and you're gonna want me to do this and you're gonna want me to do and then I tell them what's going to happen in a couple weeks down the road is you're going to come to me and you're going to want me to do this and you're going to want me to do that because you're not going to see a lot of movement on the scale. That's what I want. I'm trying to

build your metabolism right now. We are building muscle. We're building strength. Now that is going to change your body. Your waist is going to come in. Your muscles are going to tighten up. You're going to feel better but what can be discouraging for my clients is when they look at the scale and they're expecting it to go down because that's what they're watching. And so I'm letting you know that this is coming ahead of us. And so it makes this time, now when you're in it, so much easier to kind of overcome it versus getting somebody started on a program, then they're going along, and then the weeks go by, and then they're in this boat, and then you're like trying to explain what's going on, and then they're already frustrated and discouraged. It makes a world of a difference telling them what they're going to tell you

before you tell them. And you know that. You just know that this is coming with this type of a client. I can tell you're experienced enough to have seen this before. So remembering that, you know what? I got to get better at when I first meet with these people, telling them that even even if they're not going to because maybe you get lucky and they just trust you but there's always that percentage that are going to be like this and so letting them know that so you can just remind them well remember when I told you when we first started that you are going to feel this way and that's very normal like I always let them know too that this is normal everybody feels this way but this is part of the process and we got and this is where, and this is what I'll tell them, this is where most people make their mistake.

They see the scale, they get discouraged, they start cutting more calories, they start running, thinking just so they can see a couple pounds going on the scale, and they end up only shooting themselves in the foot. So I, and that's why you hired me, is I'm here to coach you through that process and not allow you to go back like so many people do.

This is all part of the process. Yeah, I love that. I used to use visuals too. I had a couple visuals where I had a hundred and, it was a 140 pound woman at 30% body fat. I don't remember the height was, but it was same height, same body weight, 20% body fat. So I'd show them these two pictures and I'd say, you know, believe it or not, they weigh the same. Or I'd show a man, 200 pounds, 20% body fat, 10%, they weigh the same. Because it's not the scale that really matters to them, it's how they look.

It's really how they look and how they feel. Do you care what your weight is if you look and feel the way you want to? And it's really important to explain body composition versus weight on the scale. It's very important in how metabolically active muscle is and how it's gonna do the work for them. You know, people, these are all things that tend to,

that we found resonated with our clients. Like, do you want your body to burn more calories on its own, or do you wanna have to get up and move every time you wanna burn more calories? You know, that's another selling point. But that communication plus forecasting tends to set you up pretty well. I mean, I feel that you have to do that first

because even if you have all the great science, all the great information. No, no, no, if it comes up and then you try to defend, it doesn't work as well. That's what makes it so difficult. And why that is is because when they invested in you, when they bought that training, they had a picture of how this was going to go.

You probably as a coach knew already how to go, but maybe we didn't communicate that thoroughly enough to that person and if you do communicate that and you basically, I mean you overcome those objections before they even come up. That way when this does come up in six weeks because it still will, you can remind them like you know this is what I was telling you that and this is that this is that moment where you feel like you want to quit or you want to do this and I need you to trust me that I've been doing this a long time and I know what I'm doing that this is that moment where you feel like you want to quit or you want to do this and I need you to trust me that I've been doing this a long time

and I know what I'm doing, that this is that we got to stay the course. And in fact, it sounds like we need to throw away the scale because this is what I was concerned about was if you're weighing and checking on yourself, you're letting that get in your head and I'm telling you we're doing a great job and stay the course.

Mackenzie, are they doing strength training now or is this something you're gonna introduce? I'm trying to introduce it when they come on board with me. Got it. It is imperative that we're strength training and doing, I actually downloaded Muscle Mom, I'm gonna provide that to my mom so she can really see what that looks like in terms of strength training,

but really educating them on that too. Awesome, and then remember, the way that you speak, the confidence that they hear in your voice makes a tremendous difference in initial stages of them trusting you. It really does. So you want to speak with authority and ultimate confidence. Like, no, this is how it works. This is what it is. Here's how you're going to feel. Everybody does this. Everybody screws up. This is why everybody fails. This is why I'm so successful, this is why I know what I'm doing, but if you want the data, I'll share that with you,

but I'm telling you, this is how it works. Like you wanna be very confident in those initial stages because if they hear a little break in your confidence, they're gonna jump all over it, and the second, it doesn't go in the direction they want it to go. Yeah, it doesn't help too. A lot of them will be couples,

and the guys, well the men will also start with me and then of course they lose weight in 10 days and then the women are like what the heck am I doing wrong and I'm trying to provide the same program but it sounds like refraining is going to be the key. Yeah and remember this men generally carry more muscle mass so if when you change a diet oftentimes what you'll initially see is water loss. Men have more water to lose from their muscle. So if you do two low carb diets, guys can lose eight pounds right off the gates. The woman might lose four or three. Right. Perfect. I appreciate that so much. And I just had another question. I know you all mentioned

this a lot, but we have the perfect plans, right? We give everyone, I have the perfect triathlon plan and the perfect nutrition plan. And I'm like, if you just followed it, it would be perfect. Like you would lose the weight or get where you need to go in terms of training. But I was just curious if you guys had any like actionable things that you have told your clients. And I think this probably goes back to the confidence and reframing everything but just trying to get them to stay on the plan and really understand it and trust it. Well I can't stress I know it's I'm gonna sound like a broken record saying this but this this literally was like I remember this in my career of like reaching and there's like levels of like when I thought I was like at first I thought I was terrible as a trainer then I thought it was okay and then there became a level where I was like like okay I thought I was like, at first I thought I was terrible as a trainer, then I thought I was okay.

And then there became a level where I was like, okay, I'm really good at what I do. And when I became really good as I had trained enough people, when a person is enrolled with me, I knew based off their goal, based off the little bit of time I'd spent with them, I had a good idea of like what our challenges were gonna be. And if I could cut that off on day one and tell

them like the and you don't have to say them right you say like I've had a lot of clients very similar situation and here's the things that we're going to go through and we're going to be challenged with and and I forecast that it just it it literally it really does solve a lot of this because when those feelings and those emotions and they don't want to adhere to it, they don't fall, like you've already told them that's what's going to happen. You're going to struggle with wanting to do this. You're going to struggle with wanting to do that.

This is why so many people fail at it. This is why you've hired me and you got me. So I want you to know when those times and those moments come, I'm going to remind you, hey, this is one of those times right now where most people, they're consistent for a couple of weeks and then they fall off. And that that's the difference maker right there. Like this is where we got it. And so the better you get at, at forecasting all that at the very beginning,

it really solves so many of the like the stuff with adherence. It really solves resigning the client. It really solves the getting caught up in the scale because you do a, and you'll just get better at better Remembering to say all of it at the very beginning and I and I promise you that it will solve a lot of these issues It doesn't and also McKinsey When you're giving somebody that you know, the quote-unquote perfect program just follow first off If that were the solution then they wouldn't need you or they wouldn't we wouldn't exist

You would just you go on Google you get the workout the diet, you wouldn't exist. You would just, you would go on Google, you'd get the workout, the diet, you know, you would input the data and then you would just follow it. That's not how it works. You have to set them up for success. Don't set them up for failure. One of the number one guaranteed ways to set someone up to failure when they're, for failure, when they first get started

is by giving them everything all at once. Because nobody makes those radical changes right out the gate, it just doesn't work that way. So to give you an example, early in my career when a client came in to try to hire me, I would convince them to come to the gym as much as possible. Later in my career when I got good,

when people came in to get excited, I would convince them to come to the gym little less. They'd come to be like, look, I wanna work out four days a week No, no, we're gonna do two days a week. But why not? Is it more better? No, let's start to so you have to set them up For success. So as a coach you got to meet them where they're at Don't take them here and move them way the hell over here Even though it's the perfect program because it's not perfect because they're not gonna follow it or they might and then they'll stop

So you got to meet them where they're at. You have to set them up for wins. Don't set them up for fails. And when you do that you explain why. It's like I listen I know you're motivated. I know you want to do four days a week but this is why we're only going to do two. Okay and don't worry the entire time you're going to see results. That's right. You got to make sure you assure them of that because they'll be like yeah 100 percent. Awesome. Mackenzie thank you all so much. I really really appreciate Awesome. Mackenzie, we got you. Thank you all so much. I really, really appreciate it.

You got it. Are you following the Instagram page that we started for trainers? Are you on that yet, the Mindpump trainers? I'm on, not the, no, I don't think so. I'll follow that though as well. Yeah, yeah, on Instagram we have a Mindpump. It's free, we put free, great content up every single day.

Stuff like this, right? Amazing. So it's mostly geared just towards trainers to both the business side and coaching. How long have you been coaching people, by the way? I've been coaching triathlon for about two and a half years and then just started nutrition coaching about six months ago. So it's like near and dear to my heart

and I wanna help everyone. So I'm trying to get this nailed down. What I said is the most important then because working with triathletes is not the same thing as working with the average person. When you're working with an athlete, especially a triathlete, you just tell them what to do and they do it.

They're disciplined. That's it. It's easy. Yes. That is not how the average person works. It's not about giving them the answers to the test. Not at all. You got to move them there slowly.

So now it's making perfect sense. You gotta meet them where they're at. Don't give them the perfect routine. It doesn't exist. You gotta slowly walk them there. And then they'll let you know when they're ready. That's good, yeah. Yeah, that's very good.

Thank you all again. I appreciate it. You got it. I'm glad I asked that last part. Yeah. Training athletes. That makes a lot more different. Here's your diet.

Here's your workout. Okay, sir. All right, coach. I got it. I mean, this is a person. Nope. Yeah. It was like, so eyeopening just to see dysfunction everywhere in their movement.

You know? And I was just like, why I performed something you can't do this. Like, what do I do now? Yeah. What do I do now? And so she's going to go through a lot of that, like just the capabilities and the needs are completely different. And you just have to really just, you know, regress way back and find out what's the right dose. I mean, a bit of a shameless plug, but this is why we created the coaching program was because national certifications that were out there

don't address these types of conversations. They teach you how to do the X's and O's. This is how you program, this is how you do macros. The problem is, ain't nobody like that. Eventually you have to sell it, still have to keep them coming back. That's right, eventually you have to learn how to have these, and I really believe

there's an art to this. I really believe there's an art to this. I really believe there's an art to being able to sit down for a half hour hour, talk to somebody and then get a very good idea of, okay, I know the person's goals. I know what's gonna be challenging for them. And then knowing how to communicate that back to them right from the jump.

And when you get good at that, then when all of these normal challenges that every trainer has with their coach or with their clients happens, you actually look brilliant because you told them how they were going to feel before they felt that way. And then that just builds trust. That builds trust in you like, oh shit, he not only, he knows me so well, he knew how I'd feel before I felt it. Damn, like, okay, I trust where this guy's leading me now. Because then he also said this is going to happen. That's right.

And so this is so powerful versus waiting until that moment happens and then trying to like show them the studies and the science and overcome it. It's like, yeah, that's so much more difficult than if I cut it off at the beginning. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin's at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano,

and Adam's at Mind Pump Battle. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic.

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