Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2429: Fix Your Low Back Pain in Under 30 Days by Doing These 4 Basic Exercises Every Day (Listener Live Coaching)

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Starting point is 00:00:47 Gambling problem? For free assistance, call the Connex Ontario Helpline at 1-866-531-2600. Bet MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast in the entire world. This is mind pump. In today's episode, we had live callers call in and we got to coach them on air.

Starting point is 00:01:23 It's a fun time. That's the back half of the episode but the first half which is for 54 minutes long is the intro portion this is where we talk about current events and fitness our lives bring up studies it's a really good time by the way if you want to be on an episode like this one email us your question at live at mind pump media comm this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is zero shoes These are the best shoes to lift weights in period end of story Strengthen your feet connect to the floor get better at your lifts zero shoes the best shoes to strength train in If you go through our link, you'll get 10% off go to zero shoes calm. That's X er o

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Starting point is 00:03:34 show. All right, check this out. You can fix your low back pain in 30 days or less by doing these four simple at home exercises every single day, ready? Windmills, hip bridges, pelvic tilts, and cat cow. This was the formula I used time and time again when I was a trainer to get people's backs to loosen up and feel much better. It really does work and most of you will notice a massive improvement.

Starting point is 00:03:59 Okay, so we gotta go through each one of those exercises and explain the value in regards to low back pain. Yes, thank you. You know, okay, by the way, this is literally, this literally, or a variation of each, okay? Because of course, when you're training somebody, there's much more individual attention. Sure, sure. But generally speaking, almost everybody who suffered from like chronic low back pain, you're doing this.

Starting point is 00:04:24 And here's how powerful it was, the way for any trainers or coaches watching this right now when I would get a potential client who would come in and talk about their back pain I almost I felt so confident they were gonna hire me by the end because I would do kind of this or some variation of this and I knew I knew that they would feel substantial pain relief at the end of the 30 minute assessment that they'd want to hire me. Now it obviously in one assessment, I'm not fixing the pain, but then if we kept practicing this, it almost always took care of it.

Starting point is 00:04:51 All right. So we'll start with the windmill. Now windmill, really what we're looking to do is improve some strength, some connection, mobility in the QL, right? The QL, the quadratus lumborum muscle, which is on the side of the spine. And this muscle oftentimes gets tight or sore when there's instability.

Starting point is 00:05:11 And this is common in people when they notice back pain when they squat or deadlift. Oftentimes it's the QL and the windmill, because of the rotation and the bending, stretches and works that area, but because you're working through a range of motion and it's not just a stretch, you're also connecting to it. It takes care of that area right there. It's that instability.

Starting point is 00:05:31 When you get a shift in the weight, this is what happened to me when I got injured, it's the unaccounted for lateral shift or a rotation that is abrupt and your body just has to react to that. And a lot of times, if you don't have any kind of training or any familiarity there, your body might overreact or might not be strong enough to sort of support that. And so then that's what leaves you exposed to getting hurt. This is really, really common.

Starting point is 00:06:01 Mainly because the average client is middle-aged, deconditioned, trying to lose body fat is like the typical, it's probably 80% of our clients, right, would fit into that category. And what happens is most people age is you just don't do a lot of rotational type movements. And so you don't bolster that muscle anymore. You don't really connect to it like you used to. It's just hanging on. Yeah. It's just doing this. type movements and so you don't bolster that muscle anymore. You don't really connect to it like you used to. It's just hanging on.

Starting point is 00:06:26 Yeah. It's just doing this. Yeah. You don't really utilize it and strengthen it. And so then you go and you load, you get, you start working out and you're like, all right, I'm getting a little bit of rhythm. You start putting a little bit more weight on, getting stronger and stronger, but you're moving in the sagittal plane. You're just barbell squatting. You're doing these movements. They're just in the sagittal plane. And so you're really not challenging that. And then all it takes is a little bit of instability

Starting point is 00:06:45 on that squat where the bar shifts a little bit and then that QL lights up and it's like, oh. And really that lighting up with that kind of load, it's like, it hasn't been trained. It hasn't been strengthened really to support any sort of instability on the way down like that. And so both, and I just, this became like a staple for me to implement movements like this. I know you've talked to, I know you advocate for like side bends.

Starting point is 00:07:11 Also it's a very basic, real easy. That's probably where I started too was side bends, was just to get people started in this direction. Because if you, if you keep them progressing on like a barbell back squat and you've got a client who's 40, 50, 60 years old and they're not doing anything in their normal day that's rotational, it's almost inevitable this will eventually reveal itself. By the way, the pain that comes from this QL kind of area, this quadratus lumborum area, you tend to feel it

Starting point is 00:07:43 on the side of your low back where the SI joint is. Hopefully there's a photo, there's a picture up here. Hopefully my editor's put up a picture of what that, where that looks like. So the SI joint, the sacroiliac joint is on the, it's where the spine kind of meets the pelvis and it's on one side, there's two of them, right? And you'll, that's where you'll feel it. So you'd be like, Oh, it's on the left kind of lower backside. And so this windmills helps a lot with that kind of back pain.

Starting point is 00:08:07 Then you have the hip bridges. Now what hip bridges are doing is really, we're just turning on your glutes. A lot of, a lot of a significant percentage of low back instability and pain and weakness comes from disengaged weak glutes, especially if you sit down a lot and your butt is just not those glute muscles. It's one of the largest muscles in the body. It's actually a unique muscle to humans in comparison to other primates in the sense that it's so big. Keeps us upright. The lumbar pelvic hip area is what they refer to when they talk

Starting point is 00:08:38 about that low back area and the glutes play such a huge role in stabilizing the low back. It's the biggest, strongest muscle in that area. Right. It's the biggest, strongest muscles to support that whole hip complex. And if it's weak and or you're disconnected to it, then that instability, that weakness goes to stressing the low back. Totally.

Starting point is 00:08:59 Blow back. All the force in your lower back. Ends up taking a look, which is, this is the next most common thing. Right? So I get, cause a lot of people have what we call sleepy butt syndrome, where they're so quad dominant, anterior driven, and they don't ever engage. They don't ever hip hinge anymore.

Starting point is 00:09:16 Then all of a sudden, you try and teach them a good hip hinge and a squat or a deadlift, and they're so disconnected from the glutes that all the stress goes into the low back. And again, and then, and the most frustrating part as a trainer, especially being a young one that probably at this time couldn't communicate this really well, is that the clients think

Starting point is 00:09:34 they have a bad back and they gotta avoid these exercises because I've got a bad back. And then it only gets reconfirmed when they go to do a movement like this and they feel it on their low back. And so now it's, oh deadlifts are bad for you, oh squats are bad for your back, and it's like no no it's like you just your QL is so weak, you're so disconnected from your ass, like these are such important supporting muscles when we do these movements we need to address it.

Starting point is 00:09:58 Yes and it's funny I wish people instead of saying I have bad this, have bad that, they could say something like I have weakness, there's a weakness I need to work on. I have a weak back. It's much more accurate. All right. Next are the hip, excuse me, we did hip bridges. The next would be pelvic tilts. Now pelvic tilts, you're on the floor, knees bent, and really what you're doing is you're taking your pelvis and you're moving from arching it to flattening it on the floor. So what we would say is trainers anterior to posterior pelvic tilt. So you're just rocking the pelvis. And what you're doing there is you're turning on your core. So you're really engaging in turning on the core because in order for you to take your pelvis and go from this kind of arched low back position while you're

Starting point is 00:10:34 on the floor to flattening it on the floor, right? Like sometimes I would tell my clients, pretend like you're squashing a bug under your low back as you press it down. In order to do that, you have to activate the muscles of the core and the abs. And it, in, in that oftentimes for a lot of people gets the core to turn on, takes some pressure off a muscle known as the psoas muscle. This is another muscle that oftentimes is the culprit when it comes to low back. This isn't pain, this is a hip flexor that attaches at low back. If your core muscles are weak then your psoas inevitably as being overworked, and

Starting point is 00:11:05 then you get inflammation there at the attachment of the spine, you get low back pain. So those pelvic tilts on the floor, by the way, by themselves, pelvic tilts oftentimes, I'd say probably six or seven out of 10 times, by themselves will take someone's low back pain from wherever it is to a lot lower, just from that alone. I mean, if we can't get that response, can't get that like bracing effect and that ability to recruit those muscles there in your core I mean it's it's leaving you susceptible you're gonna take a lot of that force and that stress like all over your back and it's just if you can't load anything in terms of like a back loaded squat you can't load

Starting point is 00:11:44 significantly basically anywhere if you're not bracing effectively. So if that's something that's like a little bit of a disconnect there, we should stay here. It's almost one of the first things we need to reestablish. Well, part of the reason why somebody will all right away feel like they get a little bit of relief in their low back just from doing these back presses because most people have either a slight anterior pelvic tilt or an excessive anterior. It's very, very common and what that looks like is it's kind of like we're arching your butt. Yeah, you're arching your low back, your butt. Instagram pose. Yeah, the Instagram pose is like what we used to call the bikini model pose or whatever and that's an exaggeration of it but it gets you the visual

Starting point is 00:12:24 of what we're talking about, so the hips are tilted like that. And when they're tilted like that, that low back, all those low back muscles are overactive and tight. They're just tense all the time. And so then, of course, you go and load it, and it's already a tense area, and it's like, oh, that just exacerbates that,

Starting point is 00:12:39 where when you lay down and you tell somebody to do those back presses, it opens it up and it relaxes it for a second. So it's like, oh my God, it's such protective mechanism can kind of relax. And a lot of it's like the psoas is interesting. When I learned about the psoas muscle and its contribution to back pain, it was like, it was mind blowing.

Starting point is 00:12:56 I was in my 20s and I had a chiropractor that was also a trainer that worked for me. And he talked about this muscle called the psoas, which I knew what it was, because of my anatomy part, my certifications, but I didn't realize it contributed back pain. I'm like, that's a hip flexor, and he goes, where do you think it attaches? Well, it attaches at the spine.

Starting point is 00:13:13 And if you're in that anterior pelvic tilt with your glutes here, it's shortened and it's maintaining tightness trying to keep you stable because your core isn't doing what it's supposed to. And then what happens is at the low back, at the low back attachment, is where you feel pain. In fact, if you look up psoas, P-S-O-A-S pain, look it up, look up the symptoms.

Starting point is 00:13:33 It's all low back pain. It's all coming from the low back. And then you add in that most of us, most Americans, have pretty sedentary lifestyles where you're sitting down and this just makes- And the psoas is just short. It just makes all this worse. Yeah, hip flexors, psoas, everything gets shorter.

Starting point is 00:13:48 Glutes are off. Yeah, glutes are shut off. You're all in the quads. You completely just exacerbate all these problems that we're talking about and then you go sit at a desk all day, which makes it so important that you don't just do these movements when you're doing corrective work. You don't just do them

Starting point is 00:14:05 once a week when you go to the gym. You can't just do one. This is something you want to do a lot because you're trying to combat also what you're doing all day long sitting down. And so when we're doing corrective type of movements right now, we're not trying to build a bunch of muscle here. This is not a workout. Yeah, this is not a workout. This is something that it's like, you should try and do this as much as you possibly can throughout the day because we're trying to create better patterns, movement patterns in your body and you sitting at a desk all day long is only working against that. So even if you've got a great trainer who teaches you a few of these movements and you're

Starting point is 00:14:37 like, oh man, every time I see him, I have a little bit of relief. But then you go back and you sit eight hours all day and for six or five days out of the week and you're only seeing him one day a week it's like man it still gives you maybe it's better and a little bit of relief but it's really hard sometimes to progress and completely relieve and eliminate. Now last up is cat cow. So cat cow you're just on your hands and knees and you go from arching your back to rounding your back arching your back to rounding back. Now when you do this and you round your back what you want to do is you want to pull your belly button up to your spine.

Starting point is 00:15:06 You're trying to suck in your stomach. So this exercise, it's a mobility thing for the spine, but really also what it is more importantly is you're trying to activate what's known as your TVA, your transverse abdominus. This is the muscle underneath your abs and obliques that when you suck in your stomach, that's the muscle that you're contracting. It's the body's natural weight belt. So Cat Cow helps turn that on because that stabilizes your spine.

Starting point is 00:15:29 It squeezes around your spine and stabilizes. It's not the abs, not the obliques. Those are important, but the muscle that brings everything together and stays in tight is the TVA. By the way, side effect of this is you might actually get a smaller waist from strength in this muscle. By the way, what we're talking about, Adam's saying, doing it daily, the prescription for my clients was

Starting point is 00:15:48 do 10 minutes a day of this. 10 minutes, do all these movements, spend three minutes on each one or two minutes on each one, they'll give you about a grand total of 10 minutes, do it every single day in the morning, and watch what happens. And like clockwork, and I mean, these are my numbers, these are my numbers based off of the clients

Starting point is 00:16:04 that I worked with. Almost 100% of the time they would notice significant improvements in their low back pain within weeks, within weeks. It was a vast majority. Now the ones that required more attention, more correctional exercise was a small percentage. So most people watching this right now,

Starting point is 00:16:21 unless you have some severe back injury or something else, most of you are gonna notice an improvement. just from practicing this 10 minutes a day. I know how debilitating low back pain can be. It sucks. It's the most common type of pain. It's the number one reason why people don't do the best exercises. It's the number one reason why people take pain medications. Ten minutes a day, no medications needed, no anti-inflammatories, no nothing,

Starting point is 00:16:45 and not only does the pain go away, but it doesn't come back so long as you practice these movements on a semi-regular basis. I used to have this spiel that I would give my clients about the importance of the TVA, right? And that it's the most important muscle inside your body, beside your heart. Without your heart, you're dead,

Starting point is 00:17:00 so obviously that's more important. But then the very next muscle, and the reason why that is, is like, I didn't know what to do, grab a pen, and it'd be like, here's your spine, here's your TVA that wraps around it. And most people are so disconnected, so weak here, that their spine has the freedom to do this all day long. And any sort of stress on it causes issues,

Starting point is 00:17:18 causes chronic pain. What I'm trying to teach you to do and train you to do is to build and strengthen this muscle. So it does this, like a vacuum vacuum and so that's completely stable and solid and supported all the time and this is something that is so important that if we get good at this everything else like a foundation to the house everything else that we build on top of it you're only going to get that much more results on all the other things that you do. Totally.

Starting point is 00:17:42 Alright speaking of workouts Adam I got to call you out. You did your workout yesterday. I saw you getting filmed. You're documenting your journey. I think people are gonna be blown away by how effective muscle memory is and just of course how good you are at getting your body to change.

Starting point is 00:17:54 But what the hell shoes were you wearing? Dude, you were doing squats? I actually, okay, so I actually address it in the video because I like, You're trying to do like instability training instability Well, I'm not even know Cool, and by the way to like obviously, you know, we advocate for like flash like zero shoes is what I should be Yeah, yeah zero shoes should be what I'm squatting in but but what's going on right now is that I'm just I'm not even My workouts are so lame right now. I'm not even preparing for them, right? And so in the video I thought I had I call myself out

Starting point is 00:18:26 I'm like listen I know because I know some in internet troll is gonna be all over me for wearing these big old skate shoes You know what that one's body, but it's like I'm not even I mean I loaded 135 was the max I did and I but I called it out. I called myself out. I'm like listen I I know like this is not normal for me to be wearing shoes like this But it's like I was just wearing it. I know I'm only doing two movements real quick I want to get in do it get the content done So yes, bear with me like that that I would either be barefoot or barefoot shoes like zero shoes or chucks

Starting point is 00:18:56 You know what I normally would squat. I tell you what I like the zero shoes a lot for I love Them for the for driving the sled love them because of the grip Oh, yeah, and because I can age my feet. Yeah. Yeah, I hate big cushiony any kind of shoes when I'm driving a sled I want to feel connected. I don't think I've actually driven the sled since we've been working with them Oh, yeah, and it's in so I like I don't want big crazy supportive shoes I need to feel the floor and I part of the reason why I like the sled There's a lot of reasons but I like this like because it strengthens my feet. I need to feel the floor and part of the reason why I like the sled, there's a lot of reasons, but I like the sled because it strengthens my feet. I can feel it strengthening my feet and that's really important. So, but I

Starting point is 00:19:30 can't do it barefoot. You try and drive a sled barefoot. I slide all over the place and it's not gonna... So it gives me the grip, but it also makes me feel connected. There, it was like, so good. Anything lateral for me, like I have to have those kinds of shoes. It's like like dude, to be able to create ground forces and then also stabilize and then not have like anything lateral with like regular shoes, you get like this weird restriction and in two, like the toe box, I can't spread my toes out to really like grip and anchor myself. So it's like, you know, those two things, like I'm always trying to at least go barefoot or some kind of minimalist shoe. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:07 No, I like the way they feel for that. And then lunges were good too. Anytime when I had to bend my forefoot, obviously deadlifts, cause they're flat. So anything flat is great for deadlifts. But anytime when I bend my forefoot, um, there's an element of support that I want, but then there's, there's also the element of connection. I have to feel connected to what I'm doing. I'll have to, you know what? I don't think I've actually driven the sled yet. It's actually on my

Starting point is 00:20:27 list. It is now. It wasn't originally because it's not a Maps 15 exercise, but this is where I'm going to talk to the camera and share how I modify things based off of what happens. I mean, this is what real personal training is like, right? Like no matter how great our programs are, here's an example of where if I was the client, right, to me, like where I would adjust on the fly because like an asshole, I overreached, like I knew I was probably gonna do and I even communicated in the videos. I'm going, I'm like, yeah,

Starting point is 00:20:58 I probably should be doing bodyweight squats, but my ego wants to move some sort of way. And so, and I even thought I was doing a good job. I was like, well, you know, I was going to do 15. I'm only going to do 10. See what happens. Nah, still sore as fuck. Really?

Starting point is 00:21:10 Oh, bro. To the touch. Like just way too much. Oh, that sucks. Yeah, yeah. Like I woke up this morning and I'm like, oh. I mean, literally, literally could have done just air squats. Air squats would have been fine.

Starting point is 00:21:21 They really would have been fine. And I should have done it. And I know better. Now here's the thing. You're going to progress so quickly. Yeah. But this was the been fine and I should have done it and I know better Now here's you're gonna progress so quickly But this is a first workout back. Yeah, it's okay though And this is kind of like I don't want to be I mean I mean I want to try and be as close to perfect But I'm also don't want to overthink this because I'm not we're not planning anything. It's like I want the guy we're doing very raw

Starting point is 00:21:40 There's no like edits to this or anything. That's just like just fill me I think I know what I'm gonna do today, but as I go, it might change and I'll just communicate why it's changed. Well, here's an example. Like obviously why the overreaching is such a bad idea is because I wanted to be able to come back and hit my legs twice,

Starting point is 00:21:56 but I'm still recovering from so much damage that now instead of doing another good leg movement, like a deadlift or doing something out or front squat, like I'd like to do or lunges, It's like I have so much damage now. Now I'll do something that's a little more recuperative. So like what, like pushing the sled, pushing the sled really light is what'll probably get inserted now instead of me doing it. But for example of like, this is like a little bit of what personal training is like. It's like you have, you have this plan, you have this workout plan with your client and you're like, okay,

Starting point is 00:22:24 cool. Squats today. Yeah. But okay, you're like, okay cool, squats is a- You're gonna change it on the fly. Yeah, but okay, we're gonna do deadlifts on Thursday. Client shows up Thursday like, oh my God, I'm still sore from Monday's leg workout. And you're like, oh shit, okay, well, I had planned to do front squats with you, but should I do that right now? You know what? Let's hop over the sled, put something real light on, just take you- or let's do some bodyweight lunges and work on the stride. Like that's like people don't understand, or a lot of people don't. I mean, I know some trainers get this, but you know, you

Starting point is 00:22:53 would think, cause I could go deadlift, potentially could go do that, but I'm still so sore in my legs that I'm, my body is still trying to recover. Put it differently. It's a waste of a deadlift. Yes, exactly. It's not just that. Oh, you should still deadlift it differently, it's a waste of a deadlift. Yes, exactly. It's not just that, oh, you should still deadlift. No, it's a waste of the deadlift. Yes. You're not even gonna get the value of the deadlift because you're too sore.

Starting point is 00:23:11 And it's going to delay the adaptation process. My body will be so- So are more appropriate effective exercises considering the context. Yes. That's another way to say it. This is, you know, and it was cool because I got some feedback from Dylan

Starting point is 00:23:23 because Dylan's shooting this and he's Eddie it Which he was at first not going to do it. He's like man. I really like this type of a project Can I do it like all right? You know kind of stuff on your plate, but whatever you want to do and he's like no, I've really enjoyed it because It's like you know We're kind of doing it like almost like a fly on the wall where I just I clipped the mic to me And I'm talking to myself. Yeah, you know he's also I worked out after the mic to me and I'm talking to myself. You know, so I worked out after videoing you,

Starting point is 00:23:45 he goes, I was having the same self-talk to myself in the workout. I'm like, oh, that's cool, that's good feedback, because I hope that's what people get. That's funny, so I came in this morning, and I haven't worked out here since we put the equipment in here, but I worked out here this morning, and then Josh is like, hey, can I film you

Starting point is 00:24:00 while you're doing your workout, because Adam did his or whatever. You can if you want to. So workout cuz Adam did his or whatever. I'm out you can't if you want to So one of the questions he asked me and I know what you think he's trying to get shit talk, you know It's not gonna work. I don't care. He's like, so what do you think of Adam? You know doing this thing like I think it's pretty cool actually There's no cab machines anymore I mean, there's no cab machines anymore. Like that was what happened.

Starting point is 00:24:27 Grand master plan of mine to like sink your guys. What happens when you let Justin design the gym? It's like, we don't need that. Yeah. No, you don't need that. We need that, bro. I'm not into the ballet moves. Doug was advocating hard for it.

Starting point is 00:24:41 He's like, hey, what about the cab machine for us? For us small cab guys. Just like, ah, that's a waste of space. Doesn't match. It's out. You should have seen too. As I'm working out, I put musicals on and I haven't worked out in a long time here. And so the last time I worked out here, it's got to be, it's got to be six, seven months ago. It's been a long time ago. Seven, eight months ago. And the music that I used to work out to was, it was Sepultura. It was rage, rage against the machine.

Starting point is 00:25:08 Yeah. Uh, it was anthrax. It was angry metal. It was angry. My workouts are always angry. The good stuff while I'm working out, like I'm fighting someone. So this is since I was 14 years old, literally, literally, probably the third or fourth workout when I was 14 in my backyard, I discovered,

Starting point is 00:25:27 never had heard them before, Master of Puppets, Metallica, and I was like, I'm always gonna work out this way. So I'm gonna try, and it's how I did for 30 years. All of a sudden, and this just has to do with my transition to my faith and becoming a Christian, listen. Everybody was asking. Can I just tell you guys? Everybody was asking me, what the Listen. Everybody was asking me. Can I just tell you guys? Everybody was asking me,

Starting point is 00:25:46 what the fuck's going on in here? Can I just tell you, listen, people don't know how weird this is. Can you guys please explain how weird this is? Okay? I've been on several podcasts now where people ask me, what's your spiritual journey?

Starting point is 00:25:58 Like, tell me about what's happened or whatever. And then one of the questions they always ask me is they'll say, well, what are some changes that you notice? And there's a lot of changes, but one of the strangest ones is that because it happened overnight and I didn't, it's not something I wanted, I didn't care. I didn't think about music, what am I going to listen to? It was like my desires and wants changed just overnight and now I listen to worship music while I live. So I had it on in here while I was squatting, you know, 375. Vicki was cutting my hair, she's like, I didn't even pick up on it, she saw it.

Starting point is 00:26:32 It was so white noise to me, I didn't notice. And she heard it like click over to something else like that. She goes, oh, no more gospel music, huh? And I'm like, huh? Gospel? Yeah, she's like, you haven't noticed we've been listening to worship music all the way? Oh my God, you even notice.

Starting point is 00:26:46 Sal's got a hold of the speaker. PR day huh? Need a little help from the man upstairs. It used to be so different. You know what's funny too, it changed my workouts. I used to be angry. I'm no longer angry when I work out. That you're rejoicing?

Starting point is 00:27:01 Yes dude, I'm joyful. By the way, I still work out hard I tried to combo the both you know like they have a good message but my parents were so confused because they'd always be like what didn't they get all mad like listen the lyrics I can't understand it and I just like would have to give them the Little like pamphlet so they could what would they say? Dude there was literally one like it was like Psalm I forget which Psalm it was but it was like verbatim like from the Bible like and they just made a metal song out

Starting point is 00:27:38 Of it. It was amazing. But yeah, they wouldn't believe me and I'm like read it, you know, cuz obviously they're like Yeah, they wouldn't believe me and I'm like read it, you know, because obviously they're like It's a little bit of a growl in there and like so I'm like, hey, what do you I mean? I like I have to rebel somehow To my nature, yeah Anyway, so right now the my house is my house got sick so my kids are, yeah, they're really sick right now, so we got terrible sleep, because kids are up and down and all that stuff,

Starting point is 00:28:12 and it's funny, you notice, as a parent, right, you notice what your kids, which parent they go to, depending on, for what things. If my kids want comfort, if they're feeling bad and they want comfort, like my daughter woke up in the middle of the night crying and I went to get her and she was like put me down, I want mom. Like she's screaming like ma, I'm sorry honey,

Starting point is 00:28:37 she wants you and then immediately quiets down when she has mom. But then there's this other side that, now I'm seeing it in my almost four year old, and I see it with my older kids too. When they get sick, they want comfort from mom, but then they want supplements from dad or medicine. So my older kids now have done this for a long time.

Starting point is 00:28:56 They'll call me from their mom's house because they stay with their mom half the time. Dad, what do I take? Papa, I got a sore throat. Can you send me some whatever? So now my four year old did that. So yesterday, he was all mad. It's like, I could see some of me now in him. I'm like, great, he's gonna be like that. I got a sore throat. Can you send me some whatever? So now my four-year-old did that so yesterday He was all mad. It's like I could see some of me now and him. I'm like great. He's gonna be like that He's like I'm so mad. I'm like, why are you so mad? I'm getting a sore throat. I don't want to get angry

Starting point is 00:29:14 I'm not I don't want to get sick. I'm not gonna get sick. Oh, well, you know, you might get sick So then he goes I want supplements. Give me some supplements. I'm like, all right, what do I give this kid? Chewy multivitamin. here you go. I want more. So I'm trying to find things to give him. Now, I'm assuming you've been doing that since the beginning because you were probably the person who was putting together the medicine. Always. Okay, so yeah. But I mean, he's four. What am I going to give him when he has a cold? No, no, of course. But I mean, he's been conditioned to know that dad gives me the stuff that helps me or fixes me, right? That's what he sees right now.

Starting point is 00:29:44 He's been conditioned to know that dad gives me the stuff that helps me or fixes me, right? That's what he sees right now. And then yesterday, you know, my wife tells him drink a lot of water because it helps too. She keeps pounding water like crazy. I'm like, dude, you gotta be careful with saving. I know, they'll take it all the way. Yeah, dude, you'll go nuts. You know that the, I shared this with you guys that we noticed about Max before and this happened this week, right? noticed about Max before and this we this happened this week right there's definitely like a direct correlation with the amount of playtime and stuff that him and I get together and then how he acts with Katrina in the morning so

Starting point is 00:30:13 she was just telling me this last night and she's like oh man Max was so honoree yesterday or the day before yesterday and I was like oh really what she's like yeah he was just so he gets to when Katrina's getting him ready for school in the morning, one of his treats that he gets is he gets to watch cartoons while he has his breakfast, while she's getting ready, doing things and that's kind of his time to get to watch a little bit of cartoons while she's getting ready and stuff. And the other morning she said that,

Starting point is 00:30:41 because this week has been kind of crazy for us, we've been working long hours, I haven't been getting home till late. That's kind of normally our play time. He gets, I get home early. I'm very lucky that I get to go home pretty early. I get to play with my son a lot till bedtime and he's been, for him, he's been neglected a little bit this week, right? And so here this is what he just gets honoring and so she's like, tells him, okay Max it's time to go brush your teeth and then she goes, you know, and he just ignored me.

Starting point is 00:31:07 And she goes, Max. And she said he looks over at her and then just looks right back and she goes, Maximus, if I have to come over there and turn that off for you to go brush your teeth, you're not going to get it all week long. And so he looks over and looks right back. Katrina's like, this is cool. Oh, now you got to follow through. Oh, yeah. So she comes over. This is funny. That's funny you say that because this is so. Now you gotta follow through. Oh yeah, so she comes over.

Starting point is 00:31:25 This is funny, that's funny you say that because this is the point she was making last night. So she comes over, turns it off, get in there and go brush your teeth. And so he's like dragging his feet. My legs hurt, they're so tired. He does stuff like that. She's like, oh my God.

Starting point is 00:31:37 She's bullshit so much. So she gets all done, but she's like, but that little shit he remembers so well. She's like, the biggest concern I had was remembering to stick to what I said. So she's like, I made sure I made a point. She'll actually put a reminder in my phone to like, Max doesn't get cartoons in the morning for this. And so he was, he was,

Starting point is 00:31:54 this is now yesterday, he's getting ready and he's getting up to the counter to go have his breakfast. Mommy, can I have my cartoons? And she goes, no. Do you remember yesterday how you acted? And and I said you don't get cartoons all week Long and he goes. Oh, yeah, I do remember can we talk about that? She goes sure. What do you want to talk about? You know, how about you take cartoons away from me after school instead of in the morning time. She's like no Yeah, she's like this is not a negotiation This is the rule right now.

Starting point is 00:32:25 And he's like, so he was fine. And they laughed, and they talked for the morning, stuff like that. But yeah, a couple of things. One, I noticed that if always. And it's weird. It doesn't have to be that much. It's not like he's not seeing me.

Starting point is 00:32:37 He's still seeing me. He's just not getting that two, three hours of wrestling and playing with dad. And normally, he's getting just a little bit of time with dad that he feels that neglect that you then we see it come and she's the only one that gets I don't really see him act out to me because of that he doesn't at all but it's the next day always in the morning so like when we travel and stuff like that she would notice these things because I don't see it I'm always like really I swear

Starting point is 00:33:01 to god he listens to everything and she's like like, no, no, no, he can be onry sometimes. Kids will teach you a lot, man. They'll teach you. My daughter, she's almost two now, she can annoy her older brother by, she'll take his toy or she'll do something or whatever, or he just won't wanna be touched and she'll. So we taught her to say sorry, sorry. So if he, and we told my son, we say,

Starting point is 00:33:22 if she takes your toy or if she does whatever, tell us, don't try to push her, don't try to take it away from her, tell us, and we'll handle it. And we've been doing that, and that helps, but then also we're like, okay, Dalia, do you wanna say you're sorry? So she's learned to say sorry now, and it's like so powerful.

Starting point is 00:33:38 So now she'll hit him, he'll get so mad, and she'll go, sorry, and she'll go to hug him, and he'll like melt, okay, I'll hug you, and I'm like, oh, this is beautiful. I hope it's last. I hope it works forever. I mean, it's so cool. Oh, we have to tell you guys that,

Starting point is 00:33:50 so you know that school's back, right? So school started back up. Now we're on, I don't know how many weeks now it's been. But you guys know that we, it's so funny. I've been saying that we held Max back and like all the teachers have been DMing me and giving me shit like, you don't say held back. He started a different time or some shit. I forget what they even say. I have to say it's like, first of all, I don't say it around him. It's not a big deal.

Starting point is 00:34:16 It's like whatever, but some people are like, you don't want them to be conditioned to feel like he was held back or whatever. So, okay, I get it. So anyways, none of it gets communicated around him in the first place right so I'll I'll dress that when he's 25 He finally listens to this bullshit But really cool because one of the things that I told Katrina, I was like, you know, I really hope all this extra time that we're putting into Kuma and all this, holding him back a year. What I want to hear this year is like,

Starting point is 00:34:57 I really want to hear from these teachers that he's progressing and want to get all his scores on social stuff that I see all high, high marks and Katrina yesterday, Katrina said the teacher stopped a stopter and said, Oh my God, I just want to let you guys know that Max is like the leader of the class. Now he's ahead of everybody on this. He also like, and one of the things that one of the main reasons why they re they thought he should just wait another year was emotionally like if kids were mean or they were like that like

Starting point is 00:35:28 His default would just to be to cry like he wasn't at a place yet where he felt confident enough to Articulate or doing something like that. Like that's been member. I've told you guys that's the The negative side of what this positive kid right of being such a good and so easy. And so he's almost too passive that if somebody does anything or it's hard, his default is to cry, right? So that was a concern. And they would just say, emotionally, he's young still. He's really young for his class another year. So they're like, it's so great.

Starting point is 00:35:59 He will communicate. She goes, I see him now. If a kid is doing something, he stops. And this is something Katrina and I have been working on for the last year and say, I don't like that. I don't like when you do that. And she's like, he's like, she's like, he's very direct now. And so I'm like, oh, that's what I want to, I so happy to hear that, that all that work of putting into teaching him that, cause we do that now with him, even when he's like him and I are doing something. if I tell him no or I take something away and if he goes to cry

Starting point is 00:36:27 Hey, you don't cry over that if you don't like what daddy's doing you tell me I don't like that daddy Or you tell me that's not you talk you say it don't just cry like you just cry like that I don't know why you're crying and it's not you don't just default to that use your words Communicate with me on what you're feeling. Yeah, how you feel tell me what what you don't like because if you don't like it then I'm sorry I didn't mean for you to hurt your feelings like that but you don't just cry tell me tell me you don't like it and then we'll fix it and so we've been like communicating that for like the last year so to see it being played out with it and then to not we didn't have to ask like the teacher came up and bit oh my god he's like

Starting point is 00:37:01 telling people yeah yeah so I'm like oh that's really good so I think it was the right move. I feel like that's uh, and that was what I wanted to hear We'll see if it continues to unfold that way kids are just aren't you like you're you're like by yourself now, right? Wife is gonna out of town. Yes, you're gonna drive the boys to school. You're the whole deal the whole thing yeah, like she's doing a trip with her girlfriends in like. And so I'm like, okay, yeah, it's a whole new schedule. Because they're going to a new school, it's like 45 minutes from our house. This is why I looked at getting another spot because it was just like the whole trip itself has completely changed.

Starting point is 00:37:41 And then on the way back, there's construction. So it's like an hour and 20 to get back. Bro, 45 to get there, an hour and 20 back when he drops his kids off. Yeah so I'm like I'm like in for it. That's like two and a half hours gone right? Yeah. You get count dropping them off and everything? Yeah and you start adding up all those hours like if I was to you know draw this out for a couple years that they're gonna be going to the school like all that time in between it was just didn't make sense and yeah, so that's really what led us into looking at getting a, a new spot

Starting point is 00:38:09 and kind of building, developing that for hopefully next year we can kind of move in. Uh, but yeah, dude, I'm like going to be batching it, you know, this week, I'm trying to figure it out and start planning it out. Cause it's like, do you cook when she's gone or do you just like chalk it up to like, what do you do when you door to dude? you cook when she's gone or do you just like chalk it up to like, what do you do when you do it? Dude, she does so many things and I don't, you know, highlight that enough. Like obviously I'm like terrible at like, you know, praising her, her all the time,

Starting point is 00:38:35 but like I do as much as I can. And I'm trying to like, you know, get the boys to understand like how much stuff she does, like, you know, cooking things like she literally has a garden does, like, you know, cooking things. Like she literally has a garden outside where she, you know, clips the tomatoes and then, and then she'll take like, you know, cucumbers and then fruit and like everything is like, she's grown and like brings it into like, I'm like, I can't compete with that, you know, like I'm just like, Hey, let's, let's grab like pizza or let's, let's go grab. So So I and I get tired of that cuz it just

Starting point is 00:39:08 Yeah, like it's up she's gone like I'm like, oh my god My stomach is gonna suffer the wrath, you know And so the one thing I can do is like barbecue at least and so I I'll do that like all I'll usually like I'll try and what's good to show she's learned to kind of at least like I'll try and what's good to show she's learned to kind of at least like Show me like options like oh, here's this and here's all the meat and then I have a side where I normally just defrost This and here's like sort of the the combo of like the spices and the Marinating and so I'm gonna be doing that and like at least you know marinate some meat and then like put on the grill I can cover that in terms of like sides. no like I don't know what I'm gonna do oh you're different than me because I won't grill like I'm super I want to be

Starting point is 00:39:49 in my zone like you don't like I can't have her not home when I grill she has to be home when I grill because I'm not watching you you're such a you and Doug are the grill masters my I grill like this put the meat on I'll come back in a little bit and see if it's my music playlist has got to be right like I got the right gear I got my gloves I mean I'm like it's like a ritual yeah I got everything I got every yeah bro I got everything you know saying I got a utensil for everything that I might be doing I got barbecue shoes and. Those are my Birkenstock. Yes, bro. So if it's me, this is my go-to is butcher box nuggets, dog. That's like, Max loves those. That is an easy,

Starting point is 00:40:35 yeah. Throw it in the oven. Yeah. 100%. I'm doing that. Yeah. I have the- That's the hack for me. They're so good. Me and me never eat those anyway. Yes. And I like them. He loves them. So if I'm by myself, and it doesn't make me feel guilty, like DoorDash, I feel guilty. I'll do that sometimes. But it's like, I start to feel guilty about DoorDash too much. So I'm like, at least with ButcherBox,

Starting point is 00:40:54 I'm like, hey, I'm making a healthy good choice. You know what I'm saying? Hey, they're so good. We stopped our order of them for a while because we were eating them so much. Yeah, good. Take them off, take them off. Of course, a couple months later,

Starting point is 00:41:03 put it back on, so I put it back on. I eat that, so you know the macros on those are? I was gonna ask you if you look, and I'm normally the macro guy, and I actually haven't checked them. Six nuggets is 20 grams of protein. Six or no. Yes.

Starting point is 00:41:14 No, no, no, no. Yes it is. No, no, no, no, no. Six is 20. Yeah, that's correct. Six nuggets is 20 grams. 20 grams of protein. So yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:20 I'm usually doing 40. I'm getting like 40 grams, I'm doing like 40 grams of protein. So am I. By the way, you didn't know that. Yeah, I would have actually guessed lower. No. That's really good. Yeah. Wow. And they're gluten free.

Starting point is 00:41:31 So I feel way less guilty. Oh yeah. Way less guilty about that. We just had some last night after dinner. I had some of my wife's like, you're heavy now. So now try not to eat them too quickly. That's gonna be my move. Just drag it out.

Starting point is 00:41:44 Not like every meal. Just crush all the vaginal. Yeah, cause that's, anything that's gonna be my move you know like drag it out like it's not like every meal just crush all yeah cuz that's that's that's anything that's like not too crazy I'm into that oh dude Justin I just thought just random I I just discovered something from our childhood that I never pieced together so you were you were you a he-man did you guys watch him yeah yeah okay did you watch him man watching those now. It's very very little. Yeah. Yeah. No watching now is interesting Very yet when he's not he man when he's Adam's not he man. He's a little think he's not Yeah, I think he like I don't know if he's a little bit Turns it he man something else happens

Starting point is 00:42:26 So sadomasochist I'm gonna have to watch it different now. Hey, actually, even if you watch it now, the female characters, right? God, what were the female characters? There was Sheila and I don't know. No, Sheera was his sister. Well, she's her own thing. Oh, wait, it's his sister, not his wife? Sheera was his sister. Oh, for some reason I think it was. What was the one of the big,

Starting point is 00:42:42 I don't know, the big, the big, the big, the big, the big, There was Sheila and Shira. No, Shira was his own thing. Yeah. Oh, it's a sister not his wife She loved Shira was his sister. Oh for some reason I think it was the one the big Oh's like a orko orko the ghost Yeah, a little ghost looking guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but no, there's the other female characters. There's the there's the There's the princess. I don't remember her name She looks like a like an eagle almost and there was anyway when you're watching that cartoon This is a side note and they fall the women always fall the same way. They fall on their side like with their butt out.

Starting point is 00:43:09 They give you, yeah, yeah, watch here man. I put it on with my son and I watched him and she fell. I'm like, I never picked up on any of this as a kid. Anyway. There's all this subtle stuff. Do you remember Man at Arms? Like one of his number one dudes. Fisto?

Starting point is 00:43:22 No, not Fisto. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Come on, there's a guy named F Fisto dude. This is getting more interesting. There is a guy named Fisto. Yes. Fisto. I remember seeing a meme later that I was like... Doug, look up He-Man Fisto. He's like, I fisted so hard. What? Yeah. There might have been something going on there. I can't remember you guys. I can't remember all that. That's so impressive. I was a huge bro. He-Man? Dude, that's like a... That's why I developed body image issues. It was cause of He-Man. He was so Jack.

Starting point is 00:43:51 Can I switch? I know. Wait, no, I'm almost done. I'm almost done. Look at Fist though. He's got a big ass fist. I do remember this guy now. He's a badass.

Starting point is 00:43:58 I do remember this guy. So anyway, so Man-At-Arms and Falcor. Do you guys remember Falcor from Never End Your Story? Same voice, same voice actor. It's the same? It's the same guy. Oh, I bet a lot of people back in the 80s and 90s that were used for voices probably did

Starting point is 00:44:12 a hell of a lot of voices. But I never put it together. Someone did a post on Facebook. And then immediately I could hear Falcor and I could hear Man at Arms. Holy shit, it's the same guy. Dude, I would have that happen a lot. I would have that happen a lot back in the day.

Starting point is 00:44:22 Because why? Why would you hire like 20 different people to do all these cartoon type of character questions? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So transition. Thank you. I wanted to talk about this earlier in the week and because I saw that Justin had had

Starting point is 00:44:33 it up also and so we keep forgetting to get around to it, but I'm super fascinated. I don't know. I don't think you've seen it yet. So Gatorade has come out with this sweat patch. You gotta pull this up, Doug, and see this. Yeah, super fascinating. So it's reading real time, the athletes' electrolytes. Balance. No. Yes.

Starting point is 00:44:53 Yes. And then based on, yeah. And it links to an app. Can you buy this? Yes. Based on your sweat and like some other, like so it gathers, it's not like blood or anything. No, no, it's not blood.

Starting point is 00:45:03 It's like your sweat. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it reads your electrolyte levels, whether you need more or not. No, no, it's not blood. It's like your sweat. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it sort of reads your electrolyte levels whether you need more or not. You know what I wanna do with this. Bro, that is so brilliant. You know what I wanna do with this? We should test, yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:12 With element tea? Of course. I would wear this patch, work out, watch my electrolyte levels change, drink element tea, see how quickly it changes. See that sweat patch? Can you pull it up so Sal can see this? I thought this was super clever.

Starting point is 00:45:23 I can totally get that. It's not even expensive, look at that. Yeah, why don't you order some, Doug, so we can play with them? I think this would be really interesting. Put them on Justin while we podcast. Sometimes he sweats. I mean, my back is really sweaty right now.

Starting point is 00:45:36 Look at this, why? Why? Why do you? Oh my God, bro. Jesus, I don't. Dude, it's like a new thing. It's a new, it's like a new thing. It's a new year. It's a new thing.

Starting point is 00:45:46 It's like a new thing. Like, why am I back so sweaty? It's a menopause. He's going through menopause. It's a menopause. Are you still nervous? Is that what's going on? No, I'm not even nervous.

Starting point is 00:45:55 That's like old news, dude. It's not even nervous. Yeah, A, do you ever think about that? So I actually was just thinking about it. It's funny you brought up being nervous. We've now reached the place of doing this where I forget everything else. Like I used to be a time where you like think, Oh my God, cameras and this and that. Like it almost like it's all disappeared now. Something, there's something so great about a career

Starting point is 00:46:18 or a business or a job or anything that you've done to, to reach that, to reach to that point. And it takes a really long time. Oh, really, when you think about like, when were you like just ultimate comfortable in who you were as a trainer? 10 years. Yeah. 10 years.

Starting point is 00:46:33 Like 10 years. Like, I mean, really comfortable. Like no one's gonna ask you something. I mean, I loved it day one. Yeah, me too. I know exactly who you're talking about. Something I have something to give you. And like I can work on this.

Starting point is 00:46:42 There was a peace and a calm. Yes. So there's a difference between, I was passionate day one. I was excited, passionate, but there was always this slight uneasiness of, oh man, I hope I have the answer. Oh, I hope we do a good job. And then you get to a level of when you've been doing it so long that you have this ultra cost no more unknowns. Right. Yeah, you're kind of and it's such a cool feeling of when that kind of transition. And it's such a cool feeling of when that kind of transition happens when you've been doing something really. I don't know, man. I actually think we talk now a lot, right, with because of the coaching side

Starting point is 00:47:13 of the business now with trainers, we're a lot more business talk, right? So which I've been really enjoying this. And you know, there's always this common theme that I get when I'm talking to early entrepreneurs, like this, this idea, and I don't know if there's always this common thing that I get when I'm talking to early entrepreneurs, like this idea, and I don't know if it's just this generation or because of social media and this sense of like, everything happens so fast, right? And entitlement, I don't know. I don't know if that's what it's from, but there's this idea that like, you're just gonna, it's all gonna like come together for you like within six months or like, Oh, I'm going to teach you these few things. And it's like, dude, you have to put in so many hours of, of learning and trial and error and getting comfortable

Starting point is 00:47:54 and like that's, and that is a big part of becoming really, really successful. You don't get to skip that. I really, at least in my experience of everybody that I know, it's been Uber successful. They all have to go through that now every everything you any job. Yes any job that you do No, and it's like talk to a plumber jumping over it Is it talk to a plumber who just started talk to a plumber who's been there for 15 years talk to a nurse a doctor An accountant anybody that experience is something you can't skip you can't fast-forward it You can't just make it happen. It's just a being there.

Starting point is 00:48:26 This is a thing that I feel like, and this really connects to what you were teasing me about the other day, is that, and we all have this in common. One of the traits I love about you guys is when we're into something, or we want to be good at anything, we get obsessive about it. Because one of the things that we all know is that, again, you're not gonna be a master at it overnight. You're not going to get some,

Starting point is 00:48:47 but the, and the hours and the time spent on it, you just kind of do it. And so you be, so there's people that whatever job they're doing or thing that they're pursuing, that the, that the only hack is to accelerate that process. You got to go through the process. You got to put the hours in, you got to put the time in, you got to put the hours in you got to put the time in you Got to put the reps in concentrate it just put more hours in

Starting point is 00:49:10 That's it and and there's this this Unfortunately, there's this idea that you're gonna like oh buy this course or do this thing and then all of a sudden skip to the year Seven of experience. It's like no you got to put it in and where you're losing Is that you're fucking around with your other time You decide you're gonna work between nine to five and then from five to nine you're watching Netflix and on weekends you're you're out with your buddies drinking and it's like The ones that really do well or get to that ten thousand hour of mastery or get to that place of real success They've hacked into like oh the work has got to get done

Starting point is 00:49:42 Yeah And if I'm really passionate about this thing that I say I am, then when I got free time and I'm not quote unquote working or getting paid, I'm still working. I'm still learning. I'm still working on my craft and lean into that because that is what's going to accelerate you to the success faster. So that's, but that was on my mind. And I was actually just talking about that.

Starting point is 00:50:01 I took my, I don't know if I talked about this podcast that I trained my daughter. I tell you guys this, did I talk about this on the show where I took my daughter,'t know if I talked about this podcast that I trained my daughter I tell you guys this did I talk about this on the show where I took my daughter my 14 year old to the gym for the thing you told us but I don't know if you told no you didn't mention that yeah he was saying how he's like she's more like me that oh yeah dude so all right we'll talk about that for a second so and she's a listen to show so I can say this but I took her and she's been working out on and off and I've been very good about not imposing my what I like and what I want to do because I don't want to push

Starting point is 00:50:28 them in the opposite direction I want my kids to come to me and witness through Mike's you know my example and then come to me and she has she's four she's 14 she'll be turning 15 in November and she's been coming to me I want to work out I think I want to train and whatever and so I got our gym membership and she's been going with her mom and then when she's with coming to me, I want to work out, I think I want to train, and so I got our gym membership and she's been going with her mom, and then when she's with me, we work down the garage here and there, and I don't go approach her,

Starting point is 00:50:50 I wait for her to approach me. And so she's been approaching me more and more. So I said, hey, do you want to go to the gym with me instead of working on the garage? On Thursday, she's like, sure. So I said, all right, I said, hey, we could choose, so I got her a membership at the more country club type place, that's where her mom goes. I said, but I So I said, all right. I said, hey, we could choose. So I got her a membership at the more country club type place. That's where her mom goes.

Starting point is 00:51:06 I said, but I go to this, I go to the UFC gym. It's more of a, it's a little bit more of a hardcore gym. I said, it's your first time ever going one. Do you want to go to one with me? She's like, sure. So I took her there. First of all, it was amazing because I could see elements of like stuff that gets me excited coming at my daughter.

Starting point is 00:51:23 Like she's like, what's a pump? I want to feel a pump. How long does it take before I get jacked? And, you know, I want my arms to look a particular way. And I'm talking about her like delts and this, well, your delts will do that or whatever, or I think I could do more weight and I'm like, no, actually we'll stick to this. So it was a really nice experience.

Starting point is 00:51:39 Of course, few people recognize me in there. So she got to see that, you know, type of deal. But I had this interesting experience where first first off, I'm bonding with my daughter, really enjoying this time, but also I haven't trained a client in a gym in a long time. I've gone to gyms to work out, but I haven't trained a client in a gym in a long time. And so here I am with my daughter. I'm not there to work out.

Starting point is 00:52:02 I'm there to take her through exercises. And you're talking about experience, right? It so quickly so quickly switched into that feeling that I used to get. Yeah where I ran a gym And this is a gym I work out in every morning, but I don't have that feeling like going to someone I'm a customer Well now I'm in there with my daughter and I'm just training her and it just switched and all of a sudden I all got I got all those familiar feelings you get from working and managing a gym. And so then I'm talking to my daughter about that.

Starting point is 00:52:29 She's asking me, she's like, maybe one of my first jobs will be in a gym. And I'm just like, trying to hold back. Like, well maybe, I don't know. You can do whatever you want. I think I can sell a lot. I'm like, now I'm really not trying to cry. Turn around, this is great.

Starting point is 00:52:43 Oh my God. It was a good time. But I could feel that feeling, that old feeling that I used to get from managing him. It's such an automatic, comfortable thing. And that's a good time. That's so great. Anyway, I wanna say something before we get to the shout out.

Starting point is 00:52:56 This is the day before my grandmother's rosary and her funeral, she passed away a couple of weeks ago, a very important person to me. And I had this kind of revelation about her and just in general, that older generation, you were talking about a series, was it Masters of Air or something like that? Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:53:16 Okay, and we had commented about how crazy it was in those days and how people just, how did they persevere through world wars and depressions? And just, it was, life was hard, objectively much harder. Yet today we have more depression, more anxiety, just more of these kind of like these mental kind of health issues.

Starting point is 00:53:36 And I used to always think it was, we're just weaker, maybe we just rise the occasion when we need to, maybe just life is too easy so we create problems. But thinking about my grandmother, it dawned on me. So my grandmother, four kids, very poor Sicilian, for I don't know how many years, she was on her own while my grandfather went across the world

Starting point is 00:53:56 to try to find work and send her money back. She came here on a boat with two kids. Literally all she had to feed them with was a hunk of cheese, literally, on the boat. She never got her driver's license She was extremely devoted to her family. It was not an easy life But my ground my grandmother was always joyful She never ever displayed

Starting point is 00:54:19 resentment Bitterness she never asked for praise She never complained but it wasn't because of the culture like you're not supposed to complain, she literally was just joyful for serving others and it was because of her faith. It was her faith that did that for her. That's why she was able to do all those things

Starting point is 00:54:37 because she could have just done her duty but she could have done it with resentment and bitterness and you see this sometimes as people get older, one of them dies and the bitterness comes out, the resentment or whatever. She was never like that, always joyful, always enjoyed serving her family, enjoyed focusing on others, enjoyed, like really found joy in it. And it was her faith. And then I thought back to the conversation we had about these previous generations, how the hell is it that they weren't all anxious and depressed when they were dying in wars and malnourished

Starting point is 00:55:08 and it was tough and there was crazy poverty? And I think it was because people had more faith back then. I really do. I think that might be the secret. It's a component there. I think a lot of our mental illness and challenges is, life has gotten so much easier objectively, but we lost our sense of purpose and meaning.

Starting point is 00:55:25 And so that causes this spiritual turmoil that shows itself through anxiety and depression in particular, so just a thought. So maybe instead of like a shout out today, we do like an exercise for all of us. I mean, that's what I feel compelled to do after hearing something like that, is to reach out to somebody in my family or a friend or somebody

Starting point is 00:55:46 who's advanced age, older, you know, and tell them you love them, first of all, which you probably haven't done in a long time. And then two, probably talk to them. Talk to them about what it was like growing up and maybe get some perspective. Wisdom. Yeah, and wisdom.

Starting point is 00:55:59 So like if you got it, everyone's got an older family member or a friend that they have, reach out, tell them you love them and then maybe ask them, what was it like growing up, you know, 60 years ago? And then ask them what's important in life. That's right. That's right. Because they know. And gain some perspective for sure.

Starting point is 00:56:13 It'd probably be a good, healthy exercise for all of us to do. Z-biotics is a probiotic drink with genetically modified bacteria. In other words, this bacteria exists nowhere else, but in Z-biotics, that you drink before you drink alcohol. This bacteria breaks down acetaldehyde, this is one of the negative byproducts of alcohol consumption, breaks it down in your gut so the next day you feel a lot better. So here's how it works.

Starting point is 00:56:37 You drink your Z-biotics, then you go drink with your friends, enjoy yourself, and then watch how you feel the next day. Anyway, go check them out, get yourself 15% off. Go to zbiotics.com, that's Z-B-I-O-T-I-C-S.com forward slash mind pump two four. Use the code mind pump two four, get 15% off for first time purchases. All right, back to the show.

Starting point is 00:56:58 Our first caller's Aaron from Indiana. What's up, Aaron? What's going on, Aaron? What's happening? How you guys doing? Good, how are you man? I'll get right into it. I'm just curious on how you properly perform the balsa of a maneuver.

Starting point is 00:57:15 And is it different when using a belt? Yeah, it is. So by the way, you rode in with some of your PRs. You're a pretty strong person. So, you know, 455 squat, deadlift 500, bench 305. You have some experience bracing. What part do you feel may be off or where's the question specifically on bracing? Well, I just feel like after I get done either with my powerlifting program or just lifting heavy in general my lower back kind of gets at me a little bit. I presume it's because I'm not bracing hard enough or my core isn't strong enough. So it could be a number of things. It could be other things than that. Yeah, it could be a number of things.

Starting point is 00:58:02 But so you do wear a lever belt, it says here as well, when you do your big lifts, and that's when you're feeling your low back afterwards? Yeah. Okay. So when you brace with the belt, you breathe into the belt and then you brace down, and you essentially hold your breath and let it out a little bit on the way up,

Starting point is 00:58:17 or hold it until you're at the very top. So you breathe in, breathe into the belt and tighten. And you'll hear different variations of that kind of bracing, but that's essentially what you're doing. And I would guess that you're probably doing pretty good with the lifts that you're doing. How long have you trained with the belt? Quite a while, really since I started lifting. I got in the bad habit of using it too early so now I'm trying to work more on squatting or deadlifting without the belt. Has the low back thing just

Starting point is 00:58:54 presented itself recently or has that been like a nagging issue always? I think it's always been there but it's gotten worse since I've started lifting heavier. Wait then give me more details. When do you feel it? Is it just with squats and deadlifts? Is it more with deadlifts? It's more with deadlifts than it is squat but squat when I'm going for depth. Yeah I would say you know we can always I don't feel it as bad. Hip mobility stuff, bro. Yeah, I would say, you know, we can always point to the core, but oftentimes it's coming from the hips and the ankles. And since you mentioned depth, that makes me think it may be more ankle or hip related. Yeah, I think it's mobility stuff, bro.

Starting point is 00:59:39 Do you wear squat shoes or do you squat with like chucks or flat shoes? I squat barefoot. Okay. So, okay. I don't know if that's a problem. Uh, it might be if you have mobility issues in your ankle. I mean, I'd love to see the squat. Like I'd love to have a video of you. Are you in the forum, Aaron?

Starting point is 00:59:58 I'm not. Okay. I'll have Doug put you in the, in the private forum and then I'd like to see the squat cause what could be happening too? When you hit the depth, you could have just a little bit of play in the hips like that, and it'll just make the low back catch fire. I mean, I went through this for a long time

Starting point is 01:00:15 when I was squatting. And it really exacerbated as I got into heavier lifts. Didn't really notice it when I was a little bit younger, lifting lightweight. But as I started to really load the bar, pushing my deadlift and squat, I got to a point where, man, I had to do a couple sets. I'd lay down on the floor, my low back was just on fire.

Starting point is 01:00:33 And it was all ankle and hip. And once I addressed the ankle and hip mobility, strengthened that, then it all went away. So it might be that, it might necessarily be you not able to, to now to Sal's point Getting a stronger core training your core getting better at bracing That's only gonna help and support but it sounds to me like it could be more of a mobility issue Yeah, it's tough when you're talking when you're talking about someone who can lift quite a bit of weight the the the

Starting point is 01:01:03 The factors become a little different. I can point to some general ones that may be the issue that I've seen before. I would try squat shoes when squatting, see if that makes a difference. If it does, I'm not telling you to wear squat shoes. I'm telling you that might be an obvious sign that it's ankle mobility. The other thing is sometimes when people deadlift in particular, good squatters. So your squat is, is less than 50 pounds less than your deadlift. And so what tends to happen with people like that, and it's not always true, but

Starting point is 01:01:35 tends to happen is they over arch at the beginning of a squat, of a deadlift. So they get into the deadlift position. They'll really arch their back and stick their chest out. And then that's what causes an issue. So what you want to do is you want to go, you know, what's known as an anterior pelvic tilt, posterior pelvic tilt, or in layman's terms, arch your back, round your back, go in the middle. That's where you brace and start the lift. Not the over arch position. If you start in that over arch position, oftentimes you'll feel in the low back. And I see that more with heavy, with squatters who are,

Starting point is 01:02:05 you know, better squatters than deadlifters. Are you also sort of going beltless up into a certain point where then you get to a certain weight where then you start to work with the belt again? And I'm just wondering about that in terms of your bracing. Yeah. Yeah. So. about that in terms of your bracing yeah yeah so um for squat I would I would

Starting point is 01:02:28 usually go up to 405 or the the 385 without a belt and try to get as far as I can up and then like when I'm pushing towards a one or two rep max that's what I kind of go with the belt okay that. That's gonna strengthen his core pretty well. You're gonna be able to brace pretty well if you're doing that, bro. I think this is a mobility thing. I'm taking a guess. Getting the mobility is really important.

Starting point is 01:02:52 I'm taking a guess, but I feel like if I could see you squat, that we'll be able to tell. How often do you do specific unilateral training? I'm assuming with your deadlift and squat, you probably do a lot of bilateral squatting and deadlifting quite frequent. Do you ever do any unilateral stuff, I'm assuming with your deadlift and squat you probably do a lot of bilateral squatting and deadlifting quite frequent. Did you ever do any unilateral stuff? Yeah, not.

Starting point is 01:03:08 Single leg stuff? Not often. I actually am just switching programs this last week to where I'm trying to train more like a bodybuilder and do more unilateral stuff and just try to get some unevenness balanced out. Have you followed any maps? I did performance, I have performance. I like symmetry. Yes, well symmetry is with me.

Starting point is 01:03:32 Let's get you on symmetry. I think symmetry would be great, because you know, sometimes when we talk about training like a bodybuilder, what tends to happen is we just get more connected to individual muscles and getting the pump, which is bodybuilding training. But that's not necessarily what I would have

Starting point is 01:03:49 someone like you do. There's an aspect of that, but really it's about I'd want to see you do single leg deadlifts. I'd like to see you do single leg exercises. I'd like you to see you do some rotation and some lateral movement. And that, maybe your QL needs some strengthening. Yeah so I like a program like MAPSymmetry for someone like you especially if you

Starting point is 01:04:12 really consistently train with those big three. You're getting hooked up right now so we're gonna set you in the forum gonna give you symmetry and then on top of that if you shoot us a video inside there I guarantee we'll get to the bottom of this. All right, thanks, guys. I really appreciate it. You got it, man. Keep going, bro. All right, thanks.

Starting point is 01:04:33 I love everything you guys do. Helped me out a lot. You got it, brother. I think it's mobility stuff. Usually, I mean, if you're lifting that much, and I don't know how much he weighed, but in his comment, in his email, he said he was a scrawny kid growing up.

Starting point is 01:04:49 So he's been, you know, he put on some serious strength and size. He's 195 to 200 pounds. Yeah, so yeah, and he's squatting 455, that's exceptional. No, he's strong. He's very strong, and if he's squatting beltless all the way up to 400 pounds. That's what I was trying to get at, yeah, it's like he's strong. Yeah, he's squatting beltless all the way up to 400 pounds, that's what I was trying to get at. Yeah. It's like, he's strong. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:05:08 He's got a strong core. Yeah. He's like, I thought maybe it could have been back to the belt thing. If he's like the type of guy who gets in there, warms up with his belt, walks around belt all day. Right. But man, if he's, if he's able to squat 400 pounds raw, uh, I don't think he's got a weak core that's causing the low back. I think it's a mobility issue. And I mean, personally, this was me.

Starting point is 01:05:29 This was, I would deadlift and squat and my low back would be on fire. And it was because I had poor hip mobility, poor ankle mobility, and it would just stress the low back when I would do heavy loaded deep squats. You know, you brought something up, Sal, that I thought was pretty interesting because I am definitely a squatter. Yeah, and you know Deadlift that was like quite a different transition for me when I started really working on that noticed that it was Quite a bit of an excessive arch. Yes, I went to go pool And that was very subtle, but it was just like one of those things added up over time

Starting point is 01:06:01 And I was kind of dealing with that but yeah yeah, to find that neutral position and really brace was significant. Squatters tend to squat the bar up on a deadlift or at least that's what's happening. And so they get this over arch, like lower the hips and I'm going to squat it up, which is kind of what a clean can look like sometimes or a snatch. But a deadlift is not like that. You over arch and you pull, especially if it's a lot of weight, you start noticing some issues. This is why the PVC pipe thing is one of my favorite things to use as a tool. Because it puts you in that perfect neutral position for squatting or

Starting point is 01:06:34 deadlifting. And so I think that everybody should at least do that just to see if that's, because you'll see that. You'll have that person that you're like, the example of somebody who's overarching, they're gonna have this gap on the middle point, right? It won't be touching their back row. Yeah, or it'll be missing their low back. You won't touch any there because they have this gap.

Starting point is 01:06:57 So using, and we've done videos on this. I know we've done it on the YouTube channel. We're due to do it actually on the trainer channel because we haven't taught that on the trainer channel, and I think for trainers, and for, but you could do it by yourself PVC pipe You can hold it yourself and squat and I would do that a lot with clients that have them arch around Go to neutral and that was typically. Yep. Yeah, our next caller is Mike from Missouri. What's up, Mike? What's going on Mike? Sabney. Hey guys. Hey, thanks for taking my question. This is pretty exciting.

Starting point is 01:07:25 I think you guys have been very influential for me between all the fitness advice and kids and spouses and everything else. It's pretty great. Cool to see you guys and chat with you. Thank you. So thank you. Appreciate that, Mark. Yeah, but so my question revolves around maxing out and finding your max when you're doing lifts. So a little background

Starting point is 01:07:47 for me, I haven't lifted all my life. I kind of started about a year and a half or so ago. I didn't really play many sports or anything in high school. So never really had that background to kind of find your potential. And I've done, I'm almost done now with my third round of anabolic. So I've got like this week and then I'm done with that. So that's, it's been pretty, pretty great. But you know, the way that I've been measuring my improvement is just going up on lifts or on weight, going up on reps, those kinds of things. And just trying to prove over and over.

Starting point is 01:08:19 I work out at home, so I don't really have a spotter or other people that I'm working out with when I am doing that. And I guess it would be fun to kind of learn what I'm capable of, but I also don't want to hurt myself and crush myself with barbells and things. So, that's where that comes from. I'm just interested in what's the process and finding what your maybe one rep max is, or if it's even a good idea to try to

Starting point is 01:08:47 seek that out or you know just kind of go from there is what I'm looking for. Good question. I have a lot of opinions and thoughts about this. You don't have to. Yeah I'm gonna start with that. I think that finding your max is overrated. I think that it's you know it's become popular. I think CrossFit made it really popular of hitting maxes and people talking about that. The risk versus reward is just not there for most people. Now, granted, if you decided that, hey, you know what? I want to try and do a power lift meet soon or at one point.

Starting point is 01:09:25 It makes a little bit more sense for us to figure that out. Like then it's like, OK, but you can continue to get stronger and build and see great results and never touch a single max lift. Now, that's first strong opinion on that. Now, if you have the setup at home where you've got safety bars or a cage where you can actually

Starting point is 01:09:49 Set it to where even if you have to bail and go all the way down You're it'll catch on there and you're you're fine I mean I so I do I train this way where I have a setup to where I can bail and I've practiced Bailing the bar and I think there's some value to when you start lifting to practice how to get out from underneath a barbell safely but it's not necessary for sure so it really kind of depends on on what you want like do you really want that is that something that's that really important to you or is this more like you're asking this should it be important yeah there are there are one rep max calculators

Starting point is 01:10:25 that you can use online that you can. So not a fan of those. But there's nothing gonna be as accurate as actually testing your max out. But for squats and deadlifts, you wanna have safeties. If you don't have safeties, I mean, I know how to get out from under a bar with squatting if I fail, same thing with a bench,

Starting point is 01:10:44 but that's a very technical skill. And it's, I wouldn't recommend it to somebody unless they know how to dump a bar or roll a bar down their chest and get out from under. Yeah, so you don't have to, but if you really want to, do you have safeties at home? Do you have a cage with safeties? Yeah, we've got a Smith machine that's got some,

Starting point is 01:11:04 some safeties off the front of it and also just it I wouldn't use like the Smith portion of that. We just have a separate barbell with Jay hooks and things So kind of like a half cage. Oh, yeah, not a full cage, but it's there Yeah, you know, there you go. You can you can work yourself up and see what you're capable of If you want, but I mean Adams Adam's 100% doesn't really matter. The only benefit to knowing what you're capable of is sometimes we tend to, and this really has nothing to do with one rep maxes by the way, this has more to do with just hard sets. Sometimes when we stop two reps short of failure, it's

Starting point is 01:11:39 actually four or five reps short of failure, so sometimes there's value, especially if you're experienced, to going to failure for certain lifts, especially like squats. Most people are like, oh, I only had two more, but they had like six more. And sometimes going to failure will let you see that. But otherwise it's not.

Starting point is 01:11:57 I'm glad you said that, Sal, because to me, that's probably the best argument, in my opinion, for somebody doing a max lift is because a lot and I know I'm guilty of this especially with squatting there's something about sticking 400 plus pounds on your back that just feels like oh this is way more than I can do and then you actually go oh wow I got out of that and you didn't realize that you had what it took to get out of that and so the part of training to failure, training to where you have to bail does give you a better idea. That is probably the only thing. But if you

Starting point is 01:12:30 feel like you can get to that point without actually doing that, I don't think it has that much value. Yeah. I think mainly in a competitive setting, that would be my one argument for pushing yourself to that degree. And you brought up powerlifting. I think that would be a great program to get you along that path to figure out how to systematically introduce that and do it in a way that's appropriate. And so if that was the case of I'm trying to and kind of get up to like 70 to 80% to like, you know, really start to kind of pin it on, you know, week

Starting point is 01:13:11 four, week six, you know, whenever, you know, in programming it get to that point where we can now test out that that that max lift, you know, I think it does a lot too for stretching your capacity and in terms of like capacity in terms of understanding, I have this capability and then I can scale down the rest of my programming the rest of the year based off of I know where my strength lies with that. But yeah, it's totally not... You could go on the rest of your life with just lifting at 70, you know, 70, you know, 60, 70%, you know, capacity and you're just fine. You're going to keep seeing improvement. So do you

Starting point is 01:13:51 have max power left, Mike? No, we just have anabolic. Oh, well, we'll send that over to you. I do recommend though, if you've done anabolic three rounds, that you, you probably should insert a performance or a symmetry round. Just cause you're not a 16 year old kid anymore that can just bounce back. Joint stability really. Yeah, yeah, so you're gonna wanna do that.

Starting point is 01:14:16 I'll send you Power Lift, but my recommendation is that you do a performance or a symmetry also in there. At some point you wanna address it, or otherwise your joints will start talking to you. Yeah, I kind of feel that on my elbows actually if I'm going too much just from bench and actually, I don't know what it is that like right up in in this part of my arm here when I'm curling like a hammer curl or something a lot of lot right down on that one. I got to go lighter on the right arm

Starting point is 01:14:44 I'm not sure what that is but those maybe I do need to slow it down then. Brachioradialis inflammation. That's a common one but yeah like performance would probably help quite a bit and some wrist mobility that's a common what you're feeling is quite common. Yeah okay yeah I'm gonna um oh sorry go ahead. No no go ahead Mike finish you're feeling is quite common. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. My fish. You're gonna say I was gonna tell you what we're gonna hook you up with. But go ahead. Well, my wife was the one that actually turned me on you guys. And I asked I was gonna see if I could ask

Starting point is 01:15:15 you a question from her. She had Hashimoto's and was looking at functional medicine to do like blood testing and things like that. And I thought I heard you guys had mentioned, some, one of your sponsors does something similar. The functional medicine was super expensive. So I don't know that we'll go that route, but if you have any recommendations that I could point her to, that'd be awesome too. On just having blood panels and things like that.

Starting point is 01:15:38 Yeah. Dr. Stephen Cabral is who we work with, but functional medicine typically isn't covered by insurance. You got to pay out of pocket, but I'll tell you what, especially when it comes to autoimmune type issues, that's the direction you want to go for sure. I mean, you can find some covered by doctor, you know, insurance doctors that'll, that'll do it, but I've had too many clients go to a doctor and they say, oh, your, your TSH is fine or whatever's fine and they don't want to

Starting point is 01:16:02 test antibodies on stuff. So I think functional medicine is the way to go for sure. He has a lot of good tests, you know, that you can purchase. So. And she could go into it. We have a free Facebook forum called MP Holistic Health. It's free for her to go in there and Dr. Cabral, his team is in there. So MP Holistic Health on Facebook. So at least she can get in there, poke around.

Starting point is 01:16:21 I guarantee there'll be lots of other people that suffer from that also in there. And so she might get some really good free advice in there, poke around. I guarantee there'll be lots of other people that suffer from that also in there. And so she might get some really good free advice in there. But I do think it's worth the investment to do something like that. At least to get to the bottom of it and find out what she needs to do holistically to address it than to just, because it's not like you're going to have to keep paying and keep doing it forever. It's like getting that test, finding out exactly what's going on, finding out diet recommendations, supplement recommendations that she should do to address it. It'll be a worthwhile investment for you guys and I do know that it can get pretty pricey to do that but if it's something

Starting point is 01:16:56 that plagues her and really bothers her, it's a worthwhile investment at least doing it one time and going through it. At the bare minimum though, get in that forum, take advantage of the free conversations that are happening in there and she could ask some questions to the members and some of the doctors that are in there and they'll help her out awesome thank you you got it man all right Mike thanks guys yeah good talking with you yeah you got a really good stuff over we're sending a power lift? Yes, send him power lift, but then Doug also hook him up with a 50 off on performance too and symmetry,

Starting point is 01:17:31 so he has that option, because he should definitely do those within the cycle. I tell you what, when it comes to one rep max testing as a kid, I did that all the time, because everybody always asks, and you wanna know. As an adult, I never, never, never, I did that all the time. Because everybody always asks, and you want to know. As an adult, I never, never, never, I mean, the last time I tested my max was eight, nine months ago with the deadlift, I didn't even do it with a squat

Starting point is 01:17:54 or any kind of repress, and that was just because of a personal bet or goal that I had. So I have an opposite journey. Never tested my max until I hit 30 years old. So I just, and of course, you know why, right? I came from the, you know, all I care about is what I look, you know? And so I went to that extreme of just like, watch, I will build the, the look I want and never have to lift like a power lifter was my,

Starting point is 01:18:22 now the, how this came full circle for me was in my thirties, finally lifting like singles, doubles and tri triples for the first time never done under five reps in my life until 30 years old then did that and saw massive gains because I never I'd never had stretched myself that way or trained that way but then also Went down the rabbit hole of chasing it a lot in my 30s Yeah, and then the knees the hips the shoulder everything starting to feel it. Now I've come back the other way. So I do think there is value. I'm not shitting on the value of that, but it is overrated. I did it.

Starting point is 01:18:54 There wasn't a single workout I did with another person, probably until the age of 23, where I didn't max out. Dude, I- It always turned into that. Yeah, I got to the point where I did't max out. Dude, I had always turned into that. Yeah. I got to the point where I did all the main lifts, you know, then tested that out quite frequently. And then I went the other step and I just tested out my max of Turkish get up.

Starting point is 01:19:15 My max of everything. Everything you think of overhead pressing, an exercise. I'll name it. Exactly. Our next caller is Brad from Texas. What's up, Brad? Hey, good morning guys. How you doing?

Starting point is 01:19:30 How can we help you? Good. Uh, Hey, first off, I just want to say thank you for, uh, your podcast. I, you guys hear that all the time. So I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but man, it just, such a wealth of knowledge, uh, opposed to a lot of the things I've heard in the past. So, uh, I've got a, I'm going to just lot of the things I've heard in the past. So I've got a, I'm going to just read off my script that I sent in to make sure that I cover everything here,

Starting point is 01:19:50 but a little bit of backstory. So in December of 2022, I was diagnosed with advanced stage prostate cancer, which I'm happy to say I've fought and won that. And at that time, I had just turned 50 years old. So welcome to the fs, right? I was 330 pounds had been type two diabetic for probably 10 plus years, and just riddled with all kinds of poor labs, poor lab work, cholesterol, triglycerides, everything was out of whack. And I didn't pay much attention to it, unfortunately. But entered 2023, I began treatment, I've included lupron injections injections to mask my testosterone

Starting point is 01:20:28 at 45 radiation treatments and then six cycles of chemotherapy. After my third chemo session in mid-June of 2023, I decided to try Mayweather Boston Fitness to fight that extreme fatigue because I go way overboard when I get involved in things. And this is when the tides turned for me really it was it was a great help. So in june I weighed in at 298 I'd already lost a

Starting point is 01:20:50 few pounds in six months but I've dropped a total of around 40 pounds gained about 10 pounds of muscle I've dropped about 50 pounds of body fat and And actually, I'm sorry, I see that I made a mistake. I've actually lost about 80 pounds in all. I'm right at 260, hovering right below 260 now. So I've gained about 10 pounds of muscle, dropped 50 pounds of body fat, 11 pounds of that visceral fat, and I've reduced my body fat from 44% to around 31%. And that's having hit around 400 boxing fitness classes at Mayweather since I started. My A1C has dropped from, it was up in the mid sevens, it's dropped down to 5.5 and all my labs are perfect,

Starting point is 01:21:35 except for the testosterone, which is still, because the Lupron is still non-detectable. As I started following your show, and having hit a plateau over the last few months, I knew I needed to start back with some strength training that I've done years ago and mixed things up. So I started with a few workout programs in early July from Dr. Jim Stapani. And I really liked the programming and the challenges and, and as an aside from that, I found a passion and I won't go into much of that, but I've obtained some personal training

Starting point is 01:22:03 certifications and really trying to do a side hustle there, kind of dabbling in the personal trainer space because my passion in fitness and what it did for me and my particular story. But I recently purchased the Maps Bands program after listening to you guys and wanted to try something different from traditional barbell and dumbbell training. That said, despite anything I do, I feel like I'm fighting a never ending battle because of my absolute lack of testosterone and use of GOP ones, which I'm on the jar with a 12 and a half dose weekly. I've dialed in my nutrition and I'm currently set around, uh, 2020 calories

Starting point is 01:22:41 a day with 185 grams each of protein and carbs sitting in 60 grams of fat. I back my boxing workouts off to about three times a week and use it primarily as cardio and stress relief and I've been my strength training on average for 45 four to five days a week. Primarily doing full body workouts since July 1st. Since adding that strength training in July, that's where I really started seeing progress and I I know I need to stay that course. But my question to the mind pump team is, do you have any different recommendations on approaching things due to my lack of testosterone and using Manjaro? I just took my last Lupron injection in June and should start to see testosterone returning, although I was already in the low 100s prior to

Starting point is 01:23:25 this whole journey with cancer. So I already had low T. And I also plan on discussing with my doctor of getting off the Menjaro here soon. I know you all started some different specific coaching on JLP-1 clients and have the MAPS JLP-1 program available. I'm just interested in kind of that whole story. I know that's quite a bit, but given my circumstances, is there anything in particular that you guys might recommend I do differently? Yeah. Add to, take away, so on and so forth. Yeah. Just get clarity. First of all, that was a ton of great information that helps us for sure. Did you say you're doing four to five days of strength training a week and then you have three

Starting point is 01:24:05 days of the boxing cardio class? Right. Yeah, too much, Brian. Yeah, for your, for your size, uh, the amount of calories you're eating. And low testosterone. And low testosterone. Too much, way too much.

Starting point is 01:24:17 Way too much. And you, now the good news is I think we adjust a few things and we're going to start building some muscle leaning out. I think that you, uh things and we're gonna start building some muscle leaning out. I think that you you absolutely could tweak a few things and Start to see hopefully testosterone come up a little bit. How's your sleep? Tell me a little bit about what what your sleep looks like

Starting point is 01:24:39 the sleep is hit or miss I you know according to my athletic app using my Apple watch, you know, probably for a little over half the days a week, I have a good recovery. The other half not so much. I have trouble going to sleep at night and kind of toss and turn, get up early for work and of course get the workouts in. So, um, on average between six, six to seven hours during the week and then eight hours, you know, try to get eight hours in on the weekends and, and I get some recovery there when you were younger, Brad.

Starting point is 01:25:17 No, no, I wasn't. I mean, you built a tremendous amount of muscle while, uh, low testosterone over training, I think you've got some, some muscle building gifts to be quite honest with you. I think if we, yeah, in, uh, my college years, which was gosh, 20, 30 years ago, uh, I did quite a bit of weightlifting, followed over Bill Phillips body for life. And some stuff and really built a lot of muscle back then. And then I got married, moved to Louisiana and all in the same, same time frame.

Starting point is 01:25:48 So Cajun food and marriage, you know, still married to the same woman. God love her. She's put up with me for this many years, but, uh, yeah, just a lot of poor choices along the way growing, growing a family and such. So, uh, I know what I did years ago. I know that I'm 30 years older now as well. So certainly a struggle. Yeah. I'd like to see you do maps, anabolic two days a week. You can keep your boxing and then you can just, you know,

Starting point is 01:26:12 remain active on the other days. But I think that alone will put some muscle on your first shirt. I think you'll see your strength go up. And then now that you're off the loop, Ron, how long do they expect your testosterone, uh, to stay where it's at when you come off? How they say within a, so I've been getting the injections every six months and when I go back each six months it's still zero and then I get another shot. So they said about a year. Okay. So I'm looking at you know early

Starting point is 01:26:42 second quarter, second quarter next year I should start seeing it come up some. So I'm interested whether, and I don't know if the prostate cancer was contributing to the low T. I don't know if there's a connection there or not. You know, with already having had low T at the time, you know, I'm interested how that plays out. And do I-

Starting point is 01:27:01 Yeah, there seems to be a connection between low testosterone and cancers, including prostate cancer. But once you have prostate cancer, then what they try to do is cut off the drivers of the growth of the cells. That's why they'll put you on a Lupron, which will block your testosterone and sometimes they'll get even more aggressive. But it could have contributed.

Starting point is 01:27:21 So we'll wait and see what happens. If it doesn't come up after a year you're in a half Then you would talk to your your your your cancer specialist and your hormone specialist If testosterone replacement is even an option what they think about that Nonetheless, I feel very confident that if you strength trained Appropriately, I mean, the reason why we're confident that you're probably overdoing it is the fact that you're eating so low a calorie

Starting point is 01:27:48 at your size, the fact that what you've been through, and the fact that your testosterone's low. That's just a lot. And you got that good of results. Yeah, I feel like that's a lot of muscle memory. Now, it makes sense. You must have been pretty muscular in college. But yeah, I think if you did maps and a ball

Starting point is 01:28:02 like two days a week, what you'll probably see is some nice Consistent strength gains and if that starts to happen Yeah, your a1c will get even better. Everything will get even better. Sounds like you're sleeping That's the one thing that I saw. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah I was just gonna say when you're over training to it's gonna impede on your sleep So that might even improve as well for sure. We should see that night And I had a suspicion that I was over training. You know, one of the things I did see most recently, you know, with the ad and I added the strength training and that's when I really

Starting point is 01:28:34 started to see the body fat drop off and I was trying to do full body workouts. I say for it, I'm doing the four to five days a week now because I've not started the band's program Oh, which is three days of strength training and three days of more. Okay flexibility. Oh that works. That's better But that's okay anabolic is Sal's recommendation for anabolic. We're gonna send you anabolic. I also Brad I'm gonna have are you on Facebook ever do you ever get on Facebook? Can I get you then? Yeah, okay I'm gonna have Doug. I'm gonna have Doug put you in the forum Facebook. Can I get you there? Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna have Doug. I'm gonna have Doug put you in the forum. So we can keep an eye on you. And then I'd love for you just to check in with us about every 30 days about how anabolic is going for you. And we can make some tweaks. We didn but I try to get the majority, you know, through chicken and beef and, you know, through whole foods. If you don't mind me asking, you know, with the nutrition, you mentioned, you know, that low

Starting point is 01:29:35 of a calorie count. So I had kind of, I calculated it. I went off one of the TDEE calculators online and looked at what I needed. What was my daily, uh, maintenance calories? And I tried to cut that by 500, but I was trying to keep the protein at, at about a group. Well, I say a gram per pound, um, but I was looking at more of my target or I didn't, you know, target body weight that I want to be done. Kind of one 85. And then the fat I was looking at about 0.5 grams of fat and then fill the

Starting point is 01:30:04 balance of that with carbohydrates. Um, I mean, do you guys have a recommendation on at least calorie count wise where I, where I might want to be looking at? Well, I think, yeah, I would, I would bump you a couple hundred calories to start with to see how you feel. Or just by him switching, so keeping it there first to see how he responds. It's not, he's not at it. You're not at a horrible place, calorie-wise.

Starting point is 01:30:25 Not like you're eating 1,500 and start starving the body while also doing all this. It's really how low you are for all the stuff that you're doing. That's what's going on, right? And so just by simply scaling back on the training to just two days a week of maps anabolic should start to do a difference.

Starting point is 01:30:46 But if it doesn't, then I'm with Sal, I'd probably bump you another 200 calories or so just to see how you respond to that. Right now, if you are a client of mine, really the focus and goal is let's go build some muscle. Let's focus on building muscle. Let's feed the body accordingly to where you feel good. You feel you have good energy, you have good strength. And I don't really care right now about the scale, I want to see

Starting point is 01:31:07 strength go up and you feel good on your lifts, that will tell me this and what I'll probably see if you do that too, sleep will also probably improve. Yeah. So that's what I'm looking for right now. Yep. And if you if you if you check in with us about every 30 days in the forum just letting us know hey this is what's going on, this is how I feel, this is what I've been doing consistently, what do you guys think? We'll tell you, stay the course or hey, maybe add this or take this away. If you just keep up with us like that and let us know. But I definitely think MAPS Anabolic two days a week with what you got going on is a

Starting point is 01:31:39 much better recommendation. And what you're doing food wise is probably okay. You could definitely get away with bumping the calories a little better recommendation. And what you're doing food-wise is probably OK. You could definitely get away with bumping the calories a little bit, though. OK, great. We'll start you there. OK. Hey, I appreciate the feedback, guys. You got it, man.

Starting point is 01:31:53 All right, Brad. We'll see you inside the forum. All right, thank you. Take it easy, man. Now it makes sense. He's telling us how much muscle he gained while losing weight doing boxing. And so I'm like, OK, there's some genetics going on there.

Starting point is 01:32:04 What a great testament, though, too, of what we talked about this not that long ago about the you know Strength training being like this investment, right? And the more you do it the more you get this kind of compounding interest great example of someone even who went away from it for 30 years and Then came back and is not ideally training there correctly, right over doing it on his body with all the things He's got going on and yet his body still was building muscle and losing body fat I mean to me that's just such a testament it is obviously some genetics But also you know the fact memory that muscle memory from lifting as long as you did totally our next callers Rebecca from Texas

Starting point is 01:32:41 Hi, Rebecca. What's happening? Hey, how you doing? Um, I thought I was going to be less nervous because this was my second time being on here, but I'm still the same amount of nervousness. So, um, I just wanted to start off. I just wanted to start off with thank you. Cause the last time I was so nervous that I forgot to say thank you. I've literally been listening to you guys since I was like a freshman in high school. Um, you guys helped me through like a massive eating disorder and I've literally been listening to you guys since I was like a freshman in high school. You guys helped me through like a massive eating disorder and I've now been a personal

Starting point is 01:33:11 trainer. I got an NCI certified and did some nutrition coaching for some people. And then now I'm in chiropractic school and you guys gave me the connection to like reach out to Dr. Justin Brink, which was amazing. So I just want to thank you for all that and you guys have helped me so much and just growth. It feels weird not even just listening to you guys. I went on vacation and I had to like binge the like podcasts that I missed over the week. So just thank you for everything. Thank you. Thank you for everything. That's awesome.

Starting point is 01:33:41 That's awesome, Rebecca. Thank you. With that being said, I am a very competitive person and I am in a competitive season in my life, not only with school, but my school will do powerlifting competitions. And I've never done one personally. We had a competition in September.

Starting point is 01:34:04 I did that. I did okay. But we have one coming up in October, like the beginning of October. So I really want to do well in that. But then I also had a goal this year of getting two pull-ups by the end of the year. And I had a friend who said that he has the goal of getting five pull-ups. So of course I was like, Hey, let's just make this a competition and see like who can get the most amount of pull-ups at the end of the year. So I want to win that for sure. My issue is, is I am currently enrolled in like 29 credit hours. I'm also a tutor. I work outside of school just to make some extra cash. And I'm also in a leadership position for like a club with like adjusting and

Starting point is 01:34:47 stuff like that for chiropractic school. And so I got a lot on my plate. Um, and I'm just trying to figure out the best way of like how to compete in this competition. If it's the best thing to do for my health right now and what your guys, it guys's advice for that would be. Great question. I mean, there's nothing wrong with competing, but it can become bad for your health if you get super obsessed and beat yourself up over it.

Starting point is 01:35:12 But you know, you've heard us talk about practicing pull-ups on a regular basis. You've heard us say that before. Okay. That's the best way to get stronger at pull-ups is literally get a pull-up bar and just practice them throughout the day How many pull-ups can you do now? Can you do one? I? Can do like one sometimes too, but usually it's one right now I would do one, you know four times a day just do one four times a day She didn't bring up her menstrual cycle. Are you still struggling with your menstrual cycle?

Starting point is 01:35:42 Are you are you having a period on a regular basis or no? So currently now no, it's been about like two months since my last one. Okay, and it's PCO that PCOS, right? Yeah, okay. And are you working every try working on nutrition to see if there's any Effects from I've had success with reducing carbohydrates and sugar with some individuals not good for everybody But for some people. Have you tried anything like that? I haven't necessarily tried doing that because I tried tracking my calories for a bit just to see if I was eating enough and that was an issue.

Starting point is 01:36:18 But then I found myself wanting to restrict because of just seeing the numbers. So then I would start just writing down the foods and the measurements and then track for putting it in at the end of the day. And then I just got so busy that I forgot to put everything in. Okay, yeah, I wouldn't worry then unless you're in that case because if that sets you in the wrong direction.

Starting point is 01:36:38 But yeah, as far as pull-ups, practice them throughout the day. Now I wouldn't even necessarily do just one. I would put a band around it so it would give me one assistant. Because you don't want it to be like a really hard practice. You want it to be like moderate. And you just practice it throughout the day and watch how quickly you get stronger. The other thing I would do, this is a friend of yours you said?

Starting point is 01:36:58 Yeah. How often do you see them? Well, we just got a new school schedule so I don't necessarily know what classes he's in with me right now. All right. Send him candy. Lots of candy. The more weight he gains the less pull-ups you'll be able to do. It's just the other side of this company. Yeah, there's sabotage and then there's working on yourself. Those two things. Pour olive oil on all his food when he's not looking.

Starting point is 01:37:23 Yeah. That might actually be a good idea. Extra mayonnaise in his sandwiches. You're really strong by the way. I see your lifts. They're really good. Yeah. My only concern of all, the pull-up thing is that's kind of an easy thing that, and actually probably a cool, fun thing for you to focus on.

Starting point is 01:37:41 Trying to do that in addition to like crushing your power lifting in addition to everything you got going on, maybe a little bit overdoing it. So I would just be mindful. What are you talking about? Maybe mindful of that, you know? And so maybe like a one to two day a week protocol of maps anabolic with in conjunction with like your pull-up thing that you're doing every day would be more than enough for your body is just something I would consider. That's probably what it would look like if you were my client, I'd say, hey, let's, we could do this pull-up thing. That's easy. We just kind of practice that throughout the day, every day with the band like Sal's saying.

Starting point is 01:38:14 And I'm not too worried about that because you're not pushing the intensity on that. You're just practicing that movement. That's going to help that. And then straight training one to two days a week with maps and a ball like it's plenty especially someone is as strong as you are That's plenty to keep that strength up Maybe even get a little bit stronger by the time you meet there You're more at risk of trying to do too much and actually getting less Results because of that because of where you're kind of out already

Starting point is 01:38:40 You trying to do three four days a week or following a program like Maps Power Lift or somewhere, that might be too much for what you have going on currently right now. But just so you know, the more you practice the exact lift that you want to get better at and the less you practice others, tends to be the better. So in other words, and I'm not saying this

Starting point is 01:39:01 is by any means a balance. Especially at moderate intensity. That's right, this is not a balanced routine, what I'm about say right, but if I let's say my life was on the line and I had 60 days to do as many pull-ups as possible, all I would do would be practice pull-ups, and I wouldn't do any of the lifts. I would do nothing else. I would just get stronger pull-ups, and I'd work on things like shoulder mobility and things to maintain my shoulder health. But that would be and that's the fastest way to get strong at a specific lift within a short period of time but of course within that other lifts will suffer you're not going to develop balance and other stuff so it's really a consideration. And I've

Starting point is 01:39:33 brought this up before and it just kind of gets breezed over but like honestly the the mechanics of the technique of you know the pull-ups like the the least amount of performance leak that you can provide in terms of you being able to brace to the point where you're tight all the way from your fingertips to your toes. If you can master that, any body weight exercise that you try to perform from there, you're gonna have at least a 10 to 15% strength increase. Yeah, that's a good point.

Starting point is 01:40:01 The reason why I brought up the anabolic and not just practicing, you know that her also goal was to in October be strong for the power lift. Otherwise I'd say- She's got all the goals. Yeah, so. I mean, that's what I hear from you

Starting point is 01:40:13 that the biggest challenge will be balancing all that and not overdoing it and going backwards in my results. And so the practicing pull-ups one, that's easy because we're not really pushing the body to failure Or it's not a lot of volume in a day like so that one's a pretty easy one to just follow what the guys are saying Sal's point and Justin's point I think will get you to that goal The trying to also do great at the powerlifting meet is gonna be the the biggest school Yeah, and school and work and everything you got going on

Starting point is 01:40:44 That would be the hardest. And in my opinion, it looks like a one to two day a week maps anabolic protocol is probably the max I'd probably want to stretch you. Okay. Yeah. I've been doing maps anabolic for a while now. I think I've gone through like two or three cycles of that. Um, I did notice the end of my last trimester of school where like I would get, I almost would have, I've never had to be this person

Starting point is 01:41:12 where to get myself to go to the gym or push myself to go to the gym, but there would be times where I like started hating going to the gym and like having to push myself through. I'm not, I usually go to bed at like a decent time. I'm really like strict about that. My friends actually call me a grandma because I go to bed so early, but like, I, I do have issues or I notice having more issues as far as like waking up earlier and not going back to sleep. So I just didn't know,

Starting point is 01:41:42 if MAPS anabolic was too much or not. Well, how many days a week were you doing it? I Was doing it like two to three. Yeah. Yeah, I think one to two Okay Or maps 15 you could do that too. That's actually a good point to have maps 15 Rebecca. Okay. Yeah Do you have mass 15? No, wait now would that be would you prefer to do like 20 minutes a day instead of like one workout a week that's an hour? Honestly, that might actually work better with my schedule. So then I don't feel like I'm sitting all day with school and not having any

Starting point is 01:42:16 movement and then needing to plug in like an hour. I like that too. We'll send it to you. Yeah. Mass 15 would be great for you. Yeah. Perfect. Thank you guys. You got it, you maniac. Good job. Good luck. Let us know how it all went. Well, and I think one thing that I need to tell you is that I also started a podcast. You guys were like helping me within that, so I

Starting point is 01:42:36 appreciate the encouragement of like wanting to start my own. Give it a shout out. Rebecca, we got to get you in the training course. We got to get you in there. That'll help with everything going on with the chiropractic stuff, too. What's the name of your show? Oh I would love that Becca Babbles Sweetheart yeah, yeah that you know I had a client once who she went on a long

Starting point is 01:43:06 heart. Yeah. Yeah. That, you know, I had a client once who she went on a long, it was like a 30-day vacation and didn't have access to the gym and she said all I did was practice pull-ups and practice push-ups every day. She asked me what can I do? So I just, you know, you want to get better at these two lifts, try that. Sure. She doubled them at the end of 30 days, doubled the reps that she could do. Wow. You know, I know our enrollment is closed right now for the course, but I do want to say that you because I've had this question several times. Like if you're a chiropractor, massage therapist, acupuncture, physical therapist, anybody in the health and fitness space where you are a entrepreneur, that course is super for you. It's not this are a entrepreneur, that course is super for you. It's not this personal trainer specific to where we're,

Starting point is 01:43:48 because that's what we don't do. We don't go into heavy nutritional advice, heavy programming advice. It's more about- The teacher had a coach, how to train. The business. And how to build your business. Yeah, how to scale your business online and in person.

Starting point is 01:44:00 And so if you're anything in the field, highly recommend, so at the bare minimum, start following all the free content that we have out there which is the personal training growth hacks on Facebook and then also the personal trainer, mind pump trainer on IG so make sure you take advantage of that. What's the most amount of pull ups you guys ever did? You guys know what that is for you?

Starting point is 01:44:19 20. 20, that's pretty good. That is like 15. Nice. I hate pull ups, dude. You got, well you're pulling a lot of junk in the trunk. Yeah, a lot of heavy cake. Got a big caboose.

Starting point is 01:44:29 Awesome. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump to Stefan. Oh, and Adam is at Mind Pump. Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy,

Starting point is 01:44:43 and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers,

Starting point is 01:45:15 but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support,

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2429: Fix Your Low Back Pain in Under 30 Days by Doing These 4 Basic Exercises Every Day (Listener Live Coaching)

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