Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2431: Over 85% of People Are Using Caffeine the Wrong Way Resulting in More Fat Gain and Muscle Loss (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: September 25, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom.

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you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you Please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge bet MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario If you want to pump your body and expand your mind there's only one place to go Mind pump with your hosts Sal DiSteStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. That's right, this is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we had live callers.

They called in and we got to coach them on air, helped them out with their fitness goals. A lot of fun, but this was after our intro. Now in our intro, today was 56 minutes long. This is where we talk about current events, family life, we're bringing up studies. It's a lot of fun. So after that intro, we get to the live callers.

By the way, if you wanna be one of those live callers, email us a question at live at mindpupmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. In today's episode, we're talking about Brain FM. So these are sounds that have been engineered and proven to change the state of your mind, literally. You can listen to focus and your brain will switch into a focused state.

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I think it's El Mopito. I can't do this. I'll get that shirt to you. El Mopito. Over 85% of people are using caffeine the wrong way, resulting in more fat gain and muscle loss. Look, in today's episode we're going to talk about how to use caffeine the right way to get the wrong way, resulting in more fat gain and muscle loss. Look, in today's episode, we're gonna talk about how to use caffeine the right way to get the best workouts, maximize its benefits, and minimize its negatives.

And death! Whoa, whoa, whoa. You know what's crazy though? Actually, is it the way they're inserting it? That's what I don't know. No, it's not that. Justin, don't tell the players. Already wanna go there?

No, I think we brought this up in an episode not that long ago, but I do think it's really interesting that if caffeine was discovered today, there is no way. It would be illegal. It would be illegal. For sure. No way. It would be easier getting marijuana and psychedelics to pass than it is would be to get caffeine because of all the deaths because of it. Yeah so over 42%

some statistics of ER visits. 42? Yes dude. Over 42% of ER visits in some statistics are result of caffeine and typically in combination with other things like alcohol. But caffeine is always a culprit. And because when you use too much caffeine, it mimics effects of severe anxiety, can cause heart palpitations, blood pressure issues. And yes, caffeine can be deadly. I'm not quite sure what the LD50 is on it, but it is a drug.

It has classic withdrawal symptoms. When you go off of it, everybody knows this, if you drink coffee every single day you don't want to stop because you know how terrible you'll feel. That's withdrawal. An efficacious dose, if you just you know triple or quadruple it, will send a lot of people to the ER. So it's not necessarily the safest substance and it causes a stress response in the body. This is where people use it wrong, right? Because it kind of mirrors or matches what you would consider the classic drug, you build

up a tolerance very quickly, and then you use more and more of it to get a similar effect, but then what happens is you get all these negatives including a stress response in the body where you produce more cortisol. In fact, if you go to a functional medicine practitioner and show any signs of hormone imbalance, you know what they would say is the HPA axis or HTPA axis dysfunction, they used to call that, what did they call that? I can't remember. Adrenal fatigue. Adrenal fatigue, thank you.

Now we know it's HPA axis dysfunction. If you go to a functional medicine practitioner and they test your hormones and they see that, they'll tell you to stop taking caffeine because it's not great for you. And so people use it in a way to where they just don't get the benefits. In fact, people tend to use caffeine to feel normal.

Just to feel normal. And if this is you, if you wake up in the morning and you're like, I need it to function, or you're afraid to not have it because then you can't work or show up for life, then you're one of those 85% of the people that are just using it the wrong way. Really would have enjoyed a different fitness tip today.

I know, I'm sorry. You feel attacked? I feel attacked too. I was like, ah. Well, you know, there's like, you know, for me, whenever, you know, I'm getting back into the rhythm of things, there's like an order of operation of like stuff, right?

And obviously people that are following along on the docu-series right now are getting a chance to kind of see that with me. And I try and leave things to adjust and improve kind of week over week. And caffeine is definitely not one of the first things I go attack. It's like caffeine is like one of those ones,

like I'm gonna hang on to that addiction for a little bit until like I'm ready to like pull that off. And I just, I feel like when I have momentum and other things, and honestly, scientifically, it's probably not the best strategy, especially if you had adrenal fatigue or any issues or cortisol issues. And I guess I should preface that. All in all, metabolically, I'm in a very healthy place.

So I would advise a client differently than the way I go about it if that was an issue. In fact, I just had a conversation with my niece yesterday and she was just told that she has adrenal fatigue. And one of the first things I said to her was like, oh, we gotta get off the caffeine because that is not supporting this. And again, to be clear, that's what they used to call it.

That's not that your adrenals get fatigued. Yeah, he still used that. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, really what they called it, adrenal fatigue back in the day because it was a host of symptoms that seemed to match individuals in certain lifestyles. So they said, okay, it's adrenal fatigue.

But really what it is, it's an imbalance between the hypothalamus, the pituitary, the adrenals. They're not producing the hormones and chemicals that they need to when they need to and so you get in this kind of overstressed state where you need more stimulants to feel better, better, better. You're in this kind of this wired but tired state and then when it gets really bad you're just crushing fatigue and it's like there's nothing you can do about it. So can you? And this is not a great place to be if you're trying to build muscle and burn body fat

It's a stress response. So, okay let's let's go down this rabbit hole a little bit selfishly because I literally just had this conversation and I tend to I think over simplify Explaining something that I know is far more deep and complex explaining something that I know is far more deep and complex than the way I was explaining it, so selfishly for my niece and my sister-in-law who will be probably listening to this because I'll tell them to go listen to this now. Explain to them when you have this issue, right, the adrenal

fatigue or HPA dysfunction, explain to them why this from a hormonal perspective becomes, makes it very difficult for their for their body to build muscle or burn body fat. What is going on from a hormonal level that is not allowing them to see the progress. What you hear a lot just like them is like, man I'm eating good, I'm doing these, I'm doing all these things and my body's just not changing I just can't seem to build a muscle I can't seem to bring body fat tell and explain to them what's going on with their hormones. When you're stressed and stress

represents obviously what we would traditionally consider stress work and you know relationships, but you know workouts or stress on the body Certain ways you can eat can stress the body. Certain things you take, caffeine being one of them, stresses the body. Your body, when your stress levels are higher than what your body can maybe recover and adapt to, even if it's a little bit higher, you'll get along for a little while as your body starts to compensate and compensate and compensate. Then what happens over time is you start to become stress intolerant. So then a easy workout, it's like, why am I not responding to this?

Or you try to do something with your diet, it's like, why is my body holding on to body fat? Why is it that I do these things and they're just not working? They used to work before. Your body has become somewhat stress intolerant. It just it needs a break, it needs to go back to baseline so that you could build that stress tolerance because to get your body to change, you know build muscle, burn body fat, improve its fitness, you have to apply stress. Your body doesn't build muscle

without a signal that tells it that it needs muscle. But if you're stress intolerant in this state, then any exercise starts to overcome your body's ability to adapt. And caffeine, it does induce a stress response. Now it's not a huge stress response, but it is a stress response. That's where you get that hyper kind of like.

Well, doesn't it also override and mask the signal of you needing recovery? Of course. So it's like you're now adding on top of what's already an over-stressed situation where you're not peering into the body's own feedback to adjust your workouts and adjust the amount of time necessary to fully recover, adapt versus just keep spinning your wheels. And then to add another layer to that, what a lot of these clients tend to do is gravitate towards slamming these caffeine drinks and or they're addicted to high intensity type workouts like boot camp classes and stuff like that. Then explain what's happening with the cortisol dump and then insulin, right?

So that was the other thing I was trying to explain to him. It's like, you're feeling this way, and then you think- You're kind of addicted to that feeling. Yeah, so then you think that this is- Let me paint a scenario just so it makes sense for people. Imagine if you're at home and you had bad sleep the night before, you slept five hours, and you're tired. You're sitting on your chair, your couch,

and you're just like, oh, God, I feel so exhausted and just kind of lethargic. And then suddenly a mountain lion walks into your kitchen. Okay, now imagine what that's gonna feel like. And then let's say the mountain lion walks in, freaks you out, walks out, you close the door, you're safe. Mountain lion left, but geez, holy shit, a mountain lion just walked in my house. How are you gonna feel?

You feel tired like you did before no you're gonna feel a lot of hyper energy. You're gonna feel anxious You're gonna feel whereas before you're about to take a nap now You're on fire right your body just squirted out a bunch of these stress chemicals epinephrine norepinephrine These catacombs plus cortisol through them and those temporarily give you energy, they're supposed to. They're supposed to give you energy, that's why they're stress hormones. They release carbohydrates and proteins and fats and start to burn them, it starts to eat away at muscle,

starts to, over time though, it'll eat away at muscle and it will, because you're under stress so often or the cortisol's so high, your body will actually start to move towards a state where it's primed for fat storage because prolonged stress... That's the insulin dump, right? That's well, no, that's that's from the cortisol and you'll start to become insulin insensitive where your body's not responding well to insulin anymore so you'll need more and more of it. But what happens and the reason why this happens is sustained

stress over time just like if you lived in a bad economy. You know, economy's great, everything's going great, uh-oh, economy takes a crap, everything's going bad, you're going to save money. You're not going to buy things. You're going to tell your wife, hey listen, we need to cut down on the expenses, you're going to eat out less, because the economy's not doing well. When you're in a prolonged state of stress, the body's insurance policy is to store more calories, to store more body fat.

Probably because for most of human history, prolonged stress meant you didn't have food. That's what was going on. So your body's like, let's start to store more calories, just prepare for this, or set ourselves up to survive this stressful situation. So when you're in this low-level, moderate stress over long periods of time, then your body wants to store more body fat. It doesn't want muscle. Muscle is expensive. Muscle is like burning more calories. It'd be like an expensive bill that you have to pay every month. It's like sell the car. We don't need to have this bill. Muscle is expensive tissue. So your body's like, we don't want to build muscle. We want to store body fat. We want to set ourselves up for success in this stressful environment. And so this is what ends up happening. Now you being yourself,

you're in this situation, you're like I just need energy right now. So you seek things out that give you these short bursts of energy. Caffeine is one of them and so are stressful situations. What you'll find with people like this is they'll be late often to meetings and appointments because that gives them a little boost of cortisol. They'll be in stressful situations, relationships, conversations. It'll be hard for them to go to sleep, which will produce more of this kind of stress situation,

until everything crashes, right? Until you start to become resistant to your own cortisol and then you're screwed. Now you're, you know, what they would call chronic fatigue syndrome or something like that. But with caffeine, how do people mess it up? Well, first off, they'll drink it later in the day, which now messes up your sleep,

which now increases that cycle if I need more of it. They'll drink too much of it. Here's the biggest mistake, they don't come off. People don't take breaks off of caffeine. You don't cycle it. You don't cycle off. Yeah, people don't take breaks off of caffeine. You don't cycle it You don't cycle it. So if you're on caffeine Non-stop and you haven't taken a break there's gonna be some pain Before you get to the good part. So you are gonna have to go off

There's a couple strategies One of them is to wean yourself off slowly over time where you cut your caffeine and take it half For a couple days cut it in half again for a couple days until you're completely off But that just prolongs the process or you go cold turkey, but you know when you go cold turkey you've got at least three to seven days of misery ahead of you. Dude, I've always thought, I've wondered about this because it became so popular to have pre-workouts before every workout. Once I was in the gym, that just became a thing. And it's like this association of having to have that before you do any kind of rigorous activity

and wondering if that in fact was causing more over training than it was actual signals. Yeah. For sure. Probably. Yeah, it's just interesting to think about that because it just, it became such a cultural thing that like you associate with going to the gym,

I'm gonna slam this, it's gonna get me through my workout. It's beneficial. What did you you associate with going to the gym, I'm going to slam this, it's going to get me through my workout, and it's beneficial. Wouldn't you guys say too, in your experience, that this is one of those things too that it doesn't abruptly happen to somebody. It creeps up on them. I think that's why everyone, there's people who are listening right now, they're like, oh yeah, that's not me. That's not me. But it is them.

They don't even realize it's them because they haven't done something radically different in their life. And they were fine, say, a year ago. But I don't think people realize how this kind of all these low level stress things that they don't think are that big of a deal start to stack on top of each other. And then before long, you're in this state. You know, the caffeine crept up a little bit, oh, the sleep hasn't been the greatest,

and of course I'm a little stressed, I'm going through a divorce, and of course I'm a little stressed, like I just got fired from that job, and I'm at like, you know, of course I've got a newborn right now. Like, you know, you start to justify all these little quote unquote normal things

that happen in people's life, and it's just stacking on that. And then the only thing that makes you feel good is when you slam that pre-workout and you go do that high intensity class because then you get that dump and it's like and I'm and this is what I tell my niece and sister-in-law yesterday I'm like and try being a 20 something year old trainer trying to tell that client that that's that exercise isn't good for them because they they know for sure yes it feels good. It feels better than anything else I got going on so how are you little 24 year old going to tell me that this this exercise thing that

I do is bad for me when not only do I know exercise is good but I also know that I feel the best right after I do that. You know you mentioned culture Justin if you look at the caffeine content of culture, Justin, if you look at the caffeine content of energy drinks and even coffee over the last like three or four decades, it's wild. It's wild. An energy drink when we were kids was Jolt Cola. I believe Jolt Cola had something like how much? I was gonna say 50.

Maybe 50 milligrams of caffeine at the most. I used 35, it was 33. Wow, that's even less. It was really low. I was going to say 50. Maybe 50 milligrams of caffeine at the most. I used 35, it was 35. Wow, that's even less. It was really low. Coffee back in the day, they used to have styrofoam cups. Literally would be the size of three shots of espresso. This is what it looked like, like three long pools of espresso.

Little styrofoam, little fixie cups. This is what people used to drink for coffee. Now when you get coffee, it's like these big venti cups. It's massive. So now what am I pointing to? What I'm pointing to is that slowly over time culturally people have increased their caffeine intake More more more more more. Wow, now we're at it was 71 71 and that's it at just a 12 ounce Yeah, I thought I thought it was like 35. That's so much sugar 71 milligrams of caffeine wouldn't touch most people.

Most people would drink that and be like, nothing, I feel nothing whatsoever. Average energy drink now is 120 to 150, and they go as high as 300, 350. Now you can get it like a, your convenience store. I mean look at this Celsius, this has got 200. 200 easily. 200 in a little chem is the one I like it right.

Yeah. It's got some punch. Yeah, just keep it real, just keep it real. Here's the why I like it. So. Let's get some punch. Yeah, let's keep it real. Let's keep it real. Here's the, but okay, it's important. I know I called myself out there and that's how this all kind of this conversation started, right?

Talking about what I'm doing in my, the docu-series and I'm sharing like how I, each time I'm making tweaks and eventually one of my tweaks I will make is scaling back the caffeine and coming off of it and then reintroducing it. Now, if I was metabolically in this situation, it would be one of the first things I address. Because it is with a client.

Again, back to my sister-in-law and my niece, I'm talking to them, they're starting this week and they've been inspired obviously by the series and they're like, oh, I'm gonna start doing this. They tell me they went and just saw their nature path and they told him that he's got this adrenal fatigue and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna start doing this. They tell me they went and just saw their nature path and they told him that he's got this adrenal fatigue and I'm like, well, listen, in your case, the caffeine thing needs to be one of the first things

we address because I have to get you first healthy metabolically before tweaking macros, messing with intensity and volume in the training, all the things I'm kind of tweaking right now, I would do that first because of the situation there because it's only gonna make all these other tweaks that they're doing less effective. And so.

There's a waste of time. Exactly. So it's like, getting. It's like there's a house fire and you're like, you have like a shot glass of water. This is the other thing that I try and explain too to them and clients is that, you know, when you, whether you're trying to build muscle or burn body fat, and that's

your main goal, and you're starting your journey, your number one priority is to get healthy first. And I know that sounds obvious, like duh, you know, but you need to understand that the way you choose to diet, the way you choose to exercise, directly impacts your ability to get healthy faster. Because to the point you made, Sal, those are all stresses. A diet that is restricting you in calories is a stress. A exercise like cardio, like pushing yourself is a stress.

These are good stresses typically when you're in a healthy state metabolically, but if you're in a state like this where your body is not functioning properly hormonally and then you do these things thinking that it's good for you, you just exacerbate the situation. If we could represent this with numbers, let's say your body's maximum potential or adaptation potential, adapting means changing, right? Let's say it was 100. That represents you being healthy. So if you're healthy, your adaptation potential is 100.

So when you exercise, you strength train, when you go into calorie deficit. You see results. Your body's maximum potential for adaptation is there. If your health is poor, your maximum adaptation potential goes way down. So if you're really unhealthy, it's like a 30. So now you apply all these techniques and it's like my body's not responding. Maybe it's a zero. It might

even be a zero because your body's just overwhelmed with poor health. So a healthy body is going to respond better to exercise and diet than an unhealthy body. So it should be the number one thing, especially when you first get started. Well, and what's crazy about what you just said, and I love that you put like some generic numbers to it to give people some context or an idea of what that equates to, building muscle and burning body fat

is already a slow process. It's already a slow, consistent, you know, little time, that process is not fast. So if you add it, that's at a hundred percent, that means you're a hundred percent healthy, you're good place metabolically, good place hormonally, right? It's still a slow process. If you're operating at fifty percent or thirty percent, it's deadly slow. Or not at all. This is why when we would get clients and there would be people that would hire us

who've been working out, they've been trying to eat right, they can't figure out why they're not losing 40 pounds, I'm doing all this exercise, I'm working out four days a week, five days a week, my calories are so low, what's going on? And we would look at all the stuff and we'd say, your body doesn't want to budge. It's a standstill. It doesn't want to budge. And then what would happen, and this is just for trainers

and coaches listening right now, if you want to really blow people's minds and you figure this out for someone, here's what they end up coming back with. They end up coming back and saying, I used to hear this all the time, towards the back of half of my career when I figured this out, clients would come to me and go, what's going on? I'm just losing weight. This doesn't make any sense. Why is my body changing? I feel like I'm not doing anything. You're healthy. You're healthy. Your body's working the way it's supposed to. Working with you instead of against you. Yes and I would get that when I would hear that from

people it made me feel so happy. Like you unlock something. Yes, tell them. Go tell your friends. It's easy when you work with me to get your body to move in the right direction. Anyway, so okay, back to the caffeine thing. Here's an alternative that you can think It was a couple alternatives that you could use to help yourself. You could use other Adaptogens and things that kind of help a little bit with energy But one thing that we never we haven't talked about That may help is using these that may help is using these scientific sounds. Brain FM is a great example to

improve your focus while you're working out. So let's say you're cutting your caffeine, you're gonna reduce your or cut out your pre-workout. You're like okay the next week's workout are gonna suck. Play Brain FM in your headphones while you're working out. It takes about five to maybe 15 minutes to kick in and it should Significantly make up the difference. You should feel Focused you should feel more energy. You should feel better While you're working out kind of make up the difference for the caffeine that you cut out Which by the way the science for brain FM I was looking at binaural beats binaural beats is what people are familiar with

Yeah, That's like rudimentary science on getting the brain to change its brain waves and its blood flow. Brain FM is like a whole... If you go on their website, they have fMRI images. They have composers all adding to it all the time too. They do. Yes. It's like it's layers on top of layers. So they have EEG studies and they also have fMRI studies on there and you can see, so we know what a focused brain looks like on an EEG. I think EEG, is that the right thing?

Does EEG what it is? Look it up. Or fMRI. We know what the blood flow looks like in the brain in real time when it's focused versus when it's not. What the brain waves look like in a focused brain. When they put brain FM on, they'll get the, whoever's listening to it, their brain to match

a focused looking brain within about five to 15 minutes. Yes, EEG. You know, one of my favorite places to use it in regards to working out, I actually hadn't thought about this in a long time because it's been since competing days that I've used it like this, mobility, flow sessions. Yeah. So good. So good for that. Like there, I mean, there's a part of me that

always loves listening to, you know, angry white guy music when I'm wanting to do like dead lifting or squatting. Like raging machines, like angry white guy music. I feel like that's what that is. So when I'm in that mode, I like listening and stuff like that, but when I'm priming and I'm getting ready for the workout to get into that mindset and get connected to my body, oh man, putting the Brain FM in while you're doing the mobility and priming. Are they still doing 30 days for people for free, Doug?

I think they are, right? Yes, they are. Okay, so there you go, boom, try it for 30 days. Great way to go off your caffeine and switch it up with something else. All right, speaking of tracking and stuff, Adam, I know you're on your you're doing this by the way. It's just catching Crazy steam online everybody people love that stuff. They love they love following along following along seeing transformations and uh, Couldn't be a better person. You need an excuse to kind of I did did you guys see me? Uh, uh,

This is in our private coaching form, did you see me address this? No, what? Okay, you guys should watch that video. Because, of course this is the feedback, right? Of course it's going crazy, I'm getting all these comments like, this is what we've been waiting for, this is amazing. Now we have a private forum for coaches and trainers that have gone through our coaching

course and so anytime we do something in the business, I'm trying my best to also go in there and communicate the business side of things also. And I was explaining to them because I got a lot of feedback even from them how awesome this is and we've been wanting you guys to do this. And I'm like, you know, people think that like, one, we didn't know that. It's like we absolutely, we've joked about it for years. It's like fitness sales 101. Yeah, and how much people go nuts

if we post our food and stuff like that. Like, it's part of the fitness hack, like it is. But there has to also be, when the four owners make a decision to focus heavily in a direction somewhere in the business, it takes away from something else in the business. It's just part of the game. We've reached a place where that's where we're at. And it's not as simple as like, hey, that's a smart idea. You should do that. We have to decide, is it equitable for the business or not? And so, understand

that these ideas that somebody on the outside thinks is so brilliant. It's like, do you know what ad revenue is on YouTube? It's dog shit. Like it's not, it is not enough time. The amount of editors and editing and my time that goes into a project like that doesn't come close to what the ad revenue is for. So we have to factor this. So understand that.

So I wanted them to understand that. So to- Well, what I wanna ask you, cause how long are you into it now? This is a week. So I wanted them to understand that. So to... Well, what I want to ask you, because how long are you into it now? This is a week. So, okay, good. Okay, so seven days in, recap. You lost 50 pounds of muscle over time

from when you were competing to when you started this. Also, you didn't work out essentially for three or four months. You had family emergency, a lot of stuff happened. Injury. Injury, okay. So no working out. Get back into it. We got muscle memory working for us. We have the fact that you know what you're doing.

You've done this before, so this is not the average person. I'm gonna say it real quick. When you watch his body. What's the muscle memory going on there? Yeah, as you watch Adam progress, this is not the kind of results you can expect. It's just not, muscle memory, ex-pro, physio competitor, knows what he's doing.

Nonetheless, it's gonna be fascinating. All right, what do we experience now, week one? What do we see so far? So, I'm very weak, as expected. I already had a couple workouts where I overreached. I expected that I probably would. I was surprised by how little volume and intensity it took. Any visible changes yet?

Yeah, I already feel like I'm looking better already. I also kind of play, you know, this is I guess a cool question or thing to talk about. For me, I take my own advice that I give to clients, like to not get obsessed with the mirror and the scale and everything, especially at the very beginning, because the progress is slow. So one of the things that at one point in this journey

the audience will see me do is, I'll actually start to cover up. I'll start to wear baggy sweaters. And that's so you don't mess with your own head. That's right. So it doesn't mess with my head, especially when I know I'm- Should we not comment on you then, if we notice? Should I just leave, like not say anything?

No, I mean, you guys could do all you want, but I'm gonna do me, right? And part of this process, I've only only this whole week I've only gone on the scale one time and it literally was just kind of checking I was like, you know I haven't touched the scale for a week. Let me just kind of see where I'm at to make sure and it's like, okay It's right where I thought it would be, you know, I'm saying I'm like so I started at 199 I weighed in this morning at 203 so about four pounds

Obviously I've increased I've increased water intake, I've increased calories right away and protein. So I would expect to see strength increases, muscle gain, stability, some fat loss. Are you tracking things that you've never tracked before? Like sleep or? This week is the week where I will begin the process of tracking, and I'll do this in layers. So this week will be food, okay? This week. And you're just tracking? Just tracking, yeah.

I'm not trying to do anything. I'm not trying to hit a target or a meal plan. Any guesses. But the reason why I'm asking you is people always think they're so close with their guesses. Yeah. So I would love to hear a guess from an expert, and just to show

people how off you'll be even when you guess. So I would guess I'm somewhere between 2,000 and 2,500 calories. Okay. I think that I'm probably around 120 to 150 grams of protein and I'm only there because I've already had a week of going after protein. Okay. I was 60 to 90 was my guess when I started. So you're doubling up again. Like you weren't there for a while, right? Yeah. Well, one of the things I communicated

before I kind of really started the process that was really interesting was I knew that I was only eating twice a day, so I knew this would be kind of a, like hey, it's gonna be a process to get me up to 200 grams of protein. I'm grossly under, so I don't anticipate me getting there right away.

But my appetite kicked up quick. From the lifting? Yeah, like literally after the first day of lifting, Katrina made a comment to me like, oh my God, you're eating so much. That's such a good thing for people to understand. If you strength train properly, typically you'll feel an appetite increase.

Yeah, an increase. And you know, a thing that I'll communicate today, because I haven't talked about this, and I'll communicate it here, is that feed it, feed it. Like that natural sign. Full natural foods. Yes, oh yes, right? And that's the key, right?

Such a good point, like, because everybody always, oh, where should I be calories with this? Like, I'm listening to my body. I didn't think I was gonna be able to get my calories up that much that quick because I was only eating twice a day and I was full. I didn't want any more calories at twice a day. But right after I started lifting, now I was eating.

And then I just, every time I had that feeling of like, oh, I'm hungry, I went and ate. And all I did was protein-centric. That was the rule. It was like, there was no, I wasn't gonna over-complicate it, weigh and measure things or say it had to be this. I'm not tracking it. Just like... Now what about sleep? Are you tracking? I wanna see what that... So those are the layers. Okay, so first week...

Food. Food. Second week, which is two weeks from now, it'll be steps. Next week after that, it'll be getting diving into like my sleep. And what's gonna be different about my sleep this time is we've had eight sleep now that I didn't have that last time. Does it keep records? Yeah. So you'll be able to three weeks from now look at your sleep and see. I would love to see, so this is interesting because you've never done this before, this part.

I would love to see the changes in your sleep from not working out for four months to working out properly. Oh, okay, let me see if I can go back. I should be able to go back and look at all that stuff. Yeah, I would love to see if there's changes in- I should have said yes without knowing that, like that far back. I think you meant like week to week. No, I want to see if there's any improvements or changes in sleep stages. I noticed without tracking, I noticed instantly how much better I sleep. Of course, the data will show that. I was quickly reminded, like, man, it's so interesting, like, how much better I sleep. Of course, the data will show you. I was quickly reminded, like, man, it's so interesting, like, how much better I sleep

by just getting activity, like, physical activity like that in the day. And let me tell you how, because here's the other thing, too, and this reminds me of the body fat test reel that I, or the little rant that I went on. We went on another rant with this, like, because there's going to be somebody who's just like, oh, how accurate can those things really be? And it's just like, and like, it doesn't matter if you use a Apple watch or a Fitbit or an eight sleep, like they're all tools.

And all I care is, is the consistency of it. Like I sleep in that bed every night. It's been tracking my body for over a year. Trends. Yeah. It's a, it's consistent to whatever it says. I don't really give a shit. Well, the difference though, you get, yeah, but also for people who don't know, eight sleep's different because your Apple watch doesn't change the temperature of your bed.

Yeah. And to maximize sleep. That's what I'm curious about because I know when I, like initially I'll get better sleep, but then there's like a threshold where it's like I start heating up. Like it's like the metabolism starts from where I get like more muscular. It's like I feel like I'm a freaking oven, you know So to have that that's what's dope about the eight. Yeah The ai kicks in it just it just adjusts. Oh, yeah. No, that'll be interesting Yeah, no, and so how i'll use it so I can explain. Um

So i'm tracking i'm paying attention to trends like so like it doesn't matter to me Really if it's where it's scoring me initially and things like that. Again, when I go into tracking, I'm just like, this is normal for me. Whatever that is, that's my baseline. And I obviously want to have improved sleep, so I'll do little things to improve that. What I really care about though is knowing when it's significantly below baseline because that will dictate the intensity and volume that I apply in the gym. Yeah, and I was gonna say, sleep is one of the first things that the data will show.

It's impacted if you over train. Yes. So, and you've never tracked it like this before. No, no, I've always used, I've always used like, like the Fitbit or Oura ring or whatever like that for like getting you a kind of an idea of where I am burning Oura ring or whatever like that for like getting kind of an idea of where I am burning calories and steps and things like that.

And I paid attention a little bit, excuse me, a little bit to the score, but not to this level. This is something I will do this time. This time I will adjust my intensity and volume based off of how that is. But these next three weeks, there's no goals, It's just tracking, just becoming aware of where my baseline food is, where my baseline steps are, where my

baseline sleep is. And then from there, I'll make tweaks. And also the thought process is that everything I'm doing right now is a significant improvement of my life just three weeks ago. And so I know I'm moving in the right direction, regardless of what the scale says, regardless of what the mirror may look like to me. I know, I just know, I know what I'm doing and I know that increasing my protein by almost double looks like I'm doing already and eating whole foods consistently and then making sure that I'm training at least two exercises every day like I'm going to see

I'm going to move. Yeah, I can't wait to yeah, it's gonna be very interesting to follow now I feel like Justin is doing this also kind of on the DL You look at all Jack house you're working out earlier. I'm like is Justin trying to what are you doing working out? Yeah, you're not no pressure over here Is this is this Justin or is this sound more concerned that he might I'm just working out, dude. That's it? Yeah, no pressure over here. You hate that. Is this Justin, or is this Sal more concerned that he might be like, that's already happening? Yeah, he was striking it in the room over here.

You guys let me have my, let me be the most jack guy ever. You guys are just sitting there. Oh my god. I'm getting back in there. I'm just getting in a rhythm, dude. That's all. I saw you hitting the Viking Press attachment, which is... Yeah.

I love. Yeah, it's got this huge clip for it. Did you see the new one? Yes. Cool. It's got to be the best home machine... Could you call it a machine? I guess.

Yeah, I guess. Kind of. Yeah, because it just puts you in a really good position, a favorable position in terms of the stress load. So I can get full extension and get myself all the way through that window and everything else and it's just like it doesn't hurt the joints at all. It's so smooth. I wish I had one when I was a trainer. You know what it is? You get loaded like substantially. It's that typically when you want full extension with overhead

press you have to kind of like straighten your body and it requires a lot of stability on stuff. With the Viking press you just move your body forward into it. Well it defers a lot of that like intense stress like more towards the the actual like fulcrum point versus like right on your right on your spine right on your shoulders you know so it kind of like takes a little bit of edge off. You know it reminds me of hoist made a really good shoulder press machine that simulates what you're describing. You sit in it, it's the one that's on the chair moves.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It moves you into position. Yes, you start like almost like you're on an incline chest press and then as you push it rocks you forward. Kind of rocks forward with it. Yeah, and so then it brings you into that perfect, and it just feels so smooth. There's certain machines that just, that I just like like, there was a lateral machine where there's handles and it's two long arms. You almost never see those.

I love those. We used it once, all of us, at a gym that we worked out at years ago. Love that. Of course, the Nautilus pullover machine, we always talk about that. Love that. I don't know why no gyms.

And then there's a standing chest press. I used it once. It literally had a backing, and you stood and put your back against it. Ben Prokolsky gym. Well he was is a machine? No no no. Oh you're talking about a machine? I don't know if I've used it. Oh bro it's like a lever press but you're standing in it. Oh that's cool. I've only seen it once. Have you seen Chris Duffin just came out he's like super ingenuitive like he just builds these things right

like he he was looking at the belt squat and then like he created this Attachment that goes kind of harnesses over your shoulder. So it like actually Pulls you a little bit differently. So it's not like completely on that the hips and tugging And so it actually like, you know moves it up a little bit more towards your shoulders like you would Interesting, you know a barbell squat. It's interesting. I'm curious to try it. I wonder if I would like that more or less. I don't know.

I'm not sure if I would like it more. I bet it's different, but closer to a squat. Closer to a squat. It seems like leverage-wise. Yeah. But I thought it was interesting. I've always thought that that's what made the belt squat so nice though, is that it kind of relieves that.

True. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? It's like, if you want something like a barbell back squat, a fucking barbell back squat. I feel like where it's like the kind of neat something like a barbell back squat, a fucking barbell back squat. Where it's like the kind of neat part about the belt squat is that you take that part out. It's like your hips, totally. Yeah, it's just all hips.

You just got to drive the legs. Speaking of exercise, this weekend I went on a hike. My cousins came to visit. So we had the funeral on Friday for my grandmother. Appreciate you guys being there, by the way. It was a really nice service, a lot of love, a lot of love with the family. It was great. And then afterwards my cousins are like, hey, let's all do a hike or something this weekend. So we did. We did a hike in a nearby trail. And you know, you ever have those moments where you're like,

yeah, I should probably work on my endurance. You ever have those moments you're like this? I think I need to change. I'm having that right now. Huffing a little too hard? Well it was you know it was it was a lot of it was uphill. I'm making excuses. A lot of it was uphill. It was a it was not a hard trail. Look I'm gonna be quite honest. It was in the sun and we're going up and I'm having this great conversation with my cousin right and we're just talking talking and then you find yourself like I'm not gonna talk for a little bit because the breath coming out so as we're doing it you know they're making fun of me you know listen I'm all go-to show right now that's the comments that are coming on YouTube of course

right because the things on me the entire time Yeah, so I'm like, you know, thanks for the feedback like I need it, you know, I'm saying like I'm not aware Yeah, I'm not aware of like the squats feel like cardio for me right now I think you can adapt that real fast. I like you know hiking I gotta do more of it's my favorite form of You know that type of that, you know if I'm gonna get any kind of Non strength training workout. workout, it's hiking. The sled for me, that works like wonders for that. Yeah, because I work on that endurance part, but also the work capacity.

But it's funny, I was kind of going through that as well. We were walking down towards the harbor in Santa Cruz with the dogs. I'm just trying to get the dogs to exercise. And we go over to this like cafe that's down there and Courtney goes to the bathroom and I'm kind of waiting around there with the dogs just just chilling there and This guy walks up to me and he's just kind of leaning down and he's just like Hey, can I touch your wiener? What?

I was like you did not say that Opens up like what a risk. I know this guy, he just came in with the joke, and I laughed at you, because I appreciate a good joke, that's like, but I was like, wow. That's weird, because you have a lab. Why would he say that? I don't understand.

Yeah, yeah. He's got a dog. Beautiful lab. It's a beautiful wiener. So yeah, I was like, you're so so weird I wasn't even with the dogs. I know, right? I was like, can I pet it? I'm like, hey, hey.

Yeah, no, I was pretty bold. What were you, so I always, so with some of that, I think it's always interesting, right? Like, we all have a funny, dark sense of humor, so I'm sure you laughed and thought it was great. Were you wearing anything apparel-wise? like, you know like you have your Johnny Cash thing, the flip in the... Oh yeah, no I wasn't even... Cause I feel like if you had something like an apparel or if you had like a marijuana leaf you'd go like, okay this guy's chill, I could probably say some crazy shit.

Like honestly I probably was even like mean, like sometimes I have resting asshole face, you know? Yeah, yeah you do. People have told me that. Yeah I've seen it. And I tried, I'm working you do. People told me that. You have seen it. And I tried, I'm working on it. You know what? I got new teeth.

Well, the mustache makes it worse. You have like serious CHP. You know what I'm saying? You have serious CHP. You have fireman vibes. I've been getting that a lot lately. Angry CHP, that's what he calls it. I'm here, somebody broke the law.

Can I come and say... Hey, can I just, I gotta say this by the way. Can I just say, first off, so last week we had to do a glamour shot. We had to do photos. You're gonna roll Justin with a bus, right? Let's not talk about this. Yeah, you're gonna roll with a bus. No, listen, we were supposed, we gotta do photos.

We had to update our photos that we use whenever we're gonna get onto the shows. Bro, I was getting picked on the whole time. LinkedIn, profile, the last time we did them was how long? Was it eight years ago? Yeah, yeah. So people look at this picture, then they meet me in person like,

why'd you send your dad? Like, so we're like, we got to get sport and we hate doing them. We hate doing them. I hate posing for pictures. It's so weird. It's just so dumb, right? Can't stand doing it.

I'm just so non-photogenic. But doing it with Justin is so much better. Bro, I don't understand. Yeah, because I take all the heat. You guys like, you know, oh, perfect. Sal, perfect Adam. It's like a spectrum of like, we all hate it, and it's like

Justin is at the bottom. You know, I'm like way worse. Yeah, he's at the bottom. And that's what makes me feel better, like, hey, I could deal with this. It just makes me laugh. If it's this miserable for him, like, oh man. But, so here's what I want to say to you, Justin. Like, if you just act normal, it's all good. I try! But as soon as they put the say to you Justin, if you just act normal, it's all good. I try!

But as soon as they put the camera on you, it's almost like you're trying to do something weird. It's so hard to do that. It's so hard to do that. Bro, she called it like, uh, you know, like, why? My go-to normal is like this. I'm at one point, she's all, wait, why are you doing that? Why are you making that face?

Why do you have a fat face right now? I'm like, this is what I do. Why is it doing that? I don't know how to fix it. How many times has he turned this way and then he turns that way, but he doesn't, like Why do you have a fat face right now? This is what I do. Why is it doing that? How many times has he turned this way and then he turns that way but nobody would ever move like this. What are you doing Justin? Stop making weird faces. What do I do with my hands? At least it's a good sport about it.

But then when you get it right, handsome. Yeah, when it hits dude. It hits. That's why I don't feel bad. The only time they're even good is when I have no idea that they took a picture. Yeah, when it hits, dude, it hits. When it hits, yeah. When it hits, it hits. But I'm not looking. Oh my God. That's why I don't feel bad. The only time they're even good is when I have no idea that they took a picture. Those are the best photos. Those are the best photos.

You know how much I dreaded that? I did not want to get on stage and pose because that's always been my... I've always been like you and all of us are like this. None of us like that shit. And I just, the only nervousness, anything about anything I ever had was the fact that I have to go present my physical, the posing aspect. So much that I rarely, I didn't practice, I really didn't, and I remember all the coaches

that were friends of mine, they were like, dude, how often are you doing your routine? I'm like, routine? Like I know what I'm supposed to show. I'm jacked right now. Yeah, I'm just going to get there and show. And honestly, it's part of why I didn't place well on my very first show, because I brought a better physique

than any of the other amateurs by far. It wasn't even close. But my posing was so terrible that I got placed, you know, like third or fourth or whatever. It's such a weird. It is weird. I don't know, whatever, teach their own. But some people who enjoy that, weird. Well, some people I don't know, whatever, teach their own.

Some people who enjoy that, weird. Well, some people are good. And maybe that's what it is. It's a form of what, acting, I guess? It's gotta be like a form of acting, right? To like to, or performance. It's a performance. It's a performance.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, cause you're pretending to be happier than what you really are. You know what I'm saying? It's definitely, you're really not that happy, you know what I'm saying, when you're taking a photo like that. Unless maybe you are that narcissistic that you love. You're like, I can't wait to see these photos of me. They tricked themselves into being happy about it. It's just funny. I just loved it though the whole time. I was laughing so hard because every other photo,

she was like, Justin, don't do the weird thing with your hand. It was a good time. It was a good time. It was a good time. Anyway I gotta tell you guys about I've been using we're speaking about pre-workouts and stuff like that I've been using Ned as a bit of a pre-workout for myself because of the euphoric feelings I get from it. So you caffeine first and then taper that or is it just... You're talking to me bro. I combine everything. I'm just wondering. But I'll do the Ned an hour before the workout and then 30 minutes before it's caffeine. But it's a nice pre-workout. It's a really nice you feel you got this kind of euphoric good feeling while you're working out and it's good for pump style workouts when you're trying to get that connection. Yeah I was

asking because I actually have done that so I'm like I've combined Ned with like caffeine and it's great feeling yeah for especially the morning because it's like I still need well you know I don't need it. When do you when you go do you guys go off ever completely caffeine? Yeah., I just go low. I will. I don't know if I go all the way off. I will during this process. You will, off completely? Oh yeah, I always do.

I always go, I always at one point come. You gonna tell us ahead of time so we know? Yeah, yeah. I'm not that bad. You talk about actually having a harder time with that. Yeah, I struggle with other things more. I've never, one of the things, I definitely have an addictive personality

with some things, but luckily, the coming off of it for the most part, for most things I definitely have an addictive personality with some things but luckily the coming off of it for the most part for most things I would say. You don't get headaches or anything? I will I can get that can I should say I can I can do that but I feel like if I if I do it slowly and correctly it doesn't really it doesn't hit me that hard I've had a harder time like I've shared a long time ago that when I went through that whole thing with my knee surgery and I got addicted to Vicodin like there's there was nothing in my life like that like how long did it take when you went off of it to get back to normal six months wait a minute you went off of it

and you had withdrawal like no no the withdrawals happen for like strong withdrawals happen like a month four weeks three four weeks. Holy shit That's a long time. Oh, yeah, bro. Oh, you're feeling like dog The first two weeks it's like it's fucking for me It was like the word it was one of the worst feelings ever had in my life when the for two weeks And then the third week like you kind of see the light the tunnel where you're like, okay But I mean because it disrupts sleep like I couldn't sleep. I was just come weird cold. Yes Yeah, I got a hot cold sweat. I mean it's like

The first week felt like I had the worst flu of my life Yeah, and I and even I'd even rather have the worst flu of my life because at least when I've had the worst flu I get sleep some you know, you're so tired You take your night will you knock out and at least you get sleep where I couldn't, I was restless, I couldn't sleep off of it. So that was like the worst addicted thing feeling I've ever had. And maybe that's why, maybe I have, maybe I have that as my barometer. And so everything else, like, oh, it was easy. Yeah, a little bit of a headache, a little irritable. Tired for four days. Yeah, yeah, no big deal. So maybe that's why.

Maybe it is worse for me than I think, but I now, because I've experienced what withdrawals are from like a real drug like that, holy shit, everything else to me seems like it's a cakewalk because I know how tough that is. Which one is it? Is it alcohol that if you cold turkey it, if you're an alcoholic you could die simply from going cold turkey? I thought that was with almost anything. Any substance that you're really heavily desaturated. no no I think if you cold turkey like opiates

you'll just be in hell but I think alcohol is a literal risk to your life if you're an alcoholic and you cut it like what is it was it something to do the liver that's going on that's no I think it has to do with the the how the brain operates I think it has to do with neural communication. If I'm not mistaken, maybe I can find out. Yeah, so I know, I've known someone who's had to deal with this, and they wouldn't let him build cold turkey. Because they're like, no, that's dangerous.

You'll actually die if you just stop completely. I actually didn't know that. What a shitty situation. Oh my God, yes. Yeah, no. It's like, keep taking the scheme. They've decided you want to stop. Being addicted, the. Yeah, no, that's like keep taking the I mean decided you being addicted I mean the best part about going through that for me is it definitely gave me

empathy for people that struggle with that because It's it's different when you because I've always looked at things in my life Like like that I know aren't good for me and I'm like, oh, I'll just cut them out or I'll just come off And I've never had a problem with that until that and then for the first time in my life, I felt the feeling that these people must feel which is like, it's not even like, cause I have the mental discipline to do anything I feel like.

But when you are physically addicted to it where it's like, oh my God, like if I, and then to feel the relief when you give it, oh man, that was, and then I was like, holy shit, these are some serious monsters people have to deal with. What does it say, Doug? Yeah, if an individual has been physically and psychologically dependent on alcohol for some time, quitting cold turkey can be extremely dangerous and can even be fatal.

I didn't know that. And does it say why? Because of the mental and physical, I mean, the properties. What's the science? What's the science? I don't know what that is yet. There's something about the brain, I looked this up a long time ago.

It's interesting that it's that but not other drugs. I would have thought like cocaine, heroin, everything, opiates all fall in that category too, but I guess they're not. I knew somebody that was... Some blood sugar, it's gotta be blood sugar related or something? No, I can't remember what it was. I want to say it has to do with the brain.

Oh, they have something called delirium tremens or DTs. This form of withdrawal is a medical emergency. So just Google that word. What causes delirium tremens to that? So I knew somebody, I've never heard of delirium people now, but I knew somebody who they just, they killed themselves just by drinking. It would not stop. And they were literally like, doctors like, you're going to die if you don't stop.

Here are the symptoms though, if you want to see those. High fever, hallucinations, sense of impending doom, disorientation, seizures. It's the seizures, I think. So it is something with the, has something to do with the brain. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, scary. Wow. Very scary. Well, you know, we had those rehab,

the hosts of that rehab podcast. Yeah, and they're working with somebody right now. They're taking somebody who we, they hooked up for our audience. So when we did that episode, we had them on the show, and they afterwards said we'd like to give a scholarship to somebody, literally pay for the rehab,

which is expensive. So rad. Really expensive. It's like $40,000, something crazy like that. It's expensive. And one of our listeners called in, and they're helping him now. He sent us a video of his journey.

He's like what, two or three now in it with him? I think so. Somewhere on there. I got tearful when I saw that. I know, I uh, that's cool It's one of the things I'm like one of the very very cool things about what we've been able to To do and to be able to connect to people like that. And so one of the more rewarding things totally I have a funny

father story for you. Yeah, so And you know how you have these like these like dad moments or dad things that you do that you think is funny and then you realize like, oh that's probably gonna bite me in the ass. Happens all the time. Yeah, all the time. Right, so I had one of those. So you know I think I'm being quick and witty on my toes and say something that's like you know tongue-in-cheek and my wife can giggle and think it's funny and my son doesn't get it because it's oh he's too young and goes over his head right and now it's backfiring

So we're getting ready for bed. This is last week We're getting ready for bed and you know, he's being cute and playful and stuff like that and he doesn't want to go to sleep He's trying to talk to us and do his thing and he's like he asked me what what do you and mommy do when when I go? to bed and I go oh I wrestle your mommy at night. And she's like elbowing me like, he goes, you wrestle mommy? And so now he's like, I wanna see, I wanna see.

And so now every night, and he's like begging to see me wrestle his mom like so bad and he wants to know who wins and where do we do it and it's like just question after question. He's those Luchadora masks. Oh my god. I was just like, I thought I was being funny. And it was going to be like a one time thing. And now I've set myself up with it.

My son is just all day long going, I want to see you wrestle mommy. I want to see you wrestle mommy. Can we do it before we go to bed today? Can you wrestle mommy? Have you done any of it? No, I haven't wrestled my wife in front of him. No, that's not because we're not really wrestling.

Why? Oh, you're not? we're not really wrestling. Well, I know you're not. We're not really wrestling, Sal. What do you mean? What are you doing now? Hold on, what's happening? What are you guys doing? You guys don't wrestle your wives at night? So, yeah.

This is going to haunt him. It's pretty hilarious that he's- Because now he's going to remember it, and there's going to be a day when he's- I'm having so much fun without me. He's in his room hanging out, and then he's going to be like, oh, man. Like, he's going to realize gonna realize like that's what my dad

He'll definitely be when I did when I did sex ed class, it's like the waterbed for me I was like, oh god is mortified once I figured out why they have a waterbed It's not just for sex is for sleeping through right? Bullshit Just convinced it was not good, dude Okay, I motion the ocean when I did sex ed class I think was fifth grade or fourth grade the first time we kind of like they talk about this is how babies are made Or whatever I remember having this realization like and obviously it was it was not accurate But my realization I was like oh my god my parents have had sex four times

Or at least your parents have had sex four times. You know what I'm saying? Oh my God, four times? Four? Like at least your parents only had sex once. Four times. And then as you get older, it's like, oh wait, I didn't even remember that. Four times. I remember that too though, because when you learn about that,

you translate, oh when they have sex, a baby comes. It's like a one for one, you think. Oh my God, everybody else's parents had sex last year. You can trace it back to this one party Hey shout outs for the oh I do actually I have it I have a shot. I have actually a cool shot I'm just so glad you brought that Justin asked right before we got on he goes dude. Is that how'd you get that cool? Professional shot of your car oh yeah it was a sick photo of your car. So listen this is like legit businesses and hustles these guys do and of

like afterwards like I go of course what a brilliant idea so people that are into photography like Doug okay there are famous areas especially up here in in the mountains in the canyons and stuff like that. Highway 9 is famous for people to drive their motorcycles and their bikes. And I mean, I love going to Alice's, this place with a restaurant, because every time you show up there, there's Lambos and Ferraris and Porsches and cool bikes. Like it's just, everyone does that. Everybody goes there all the time and cruises. It's just a great drive, windy roads, beautiful scenery.

And so these guys are into photography. What they do is they have an Instagram page, totally dedicated to it. I'll give their handle in just a second. And they'll tell you, I'll be between the Red Barn and Highway 84 on Highway 9 between 10 and noon for two hours. And then he sets up on his tripod,

and as you come smoking around these corners, he's taking professional shots. And then you go to his page. And I just tagged him. I said, hey, I was looking for you. And I didn't think I saw him, because I knew he was supposed to be out there. I didn't see you out there.

And then he sends me back. He's like, is this you? And he has like 10 pictures of my car. And then what he does is he sends it to you on his computer. And then I can purchase a digital. I can purchase a digital, I can purchase a print. And so I could spend a few bucks and just get the digital

or I got like the whole package. So he sent me 10 plus the eight by 10. Like that's cool. But I'm like, what a brilliant business. So I'll give you that. Yeah, let me give you the handle. So the guy that I bought from, and there's multiple guys,

the guy I bought from yesterday is sky underscore Londa underscore MC. So he does motorcycles too, right? Londa, L-A-N-D. L-O-N-D-A. So sky underscore L-O-N-D-A underscore MC. And it's cool. And I thought, what a brilliant little hustle.

Yeah, great way to sell photos. Yeah, I mean, you think of your people. The people that are gonna get their photos of their cars are probably affluent, can afford to go drive cars on the weekend like that. Totally, that's so cool. And so, and you know, it's a couple bucks to them to have a cool shot of their car, so brilliant, right?

Yeah, looks awesome. I thought that was cool. All right, by now you know probiotics can dramatically improve your gut health, help with digestion, reduce bloating, reduce inflammation, actually can even help your skin. Well anyway, there's a company called Seed. They make the world's best probiotic. Hands down.

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What's going on, man? How you doing? Hey, gentlemen, how you doing? Good, good, what's happening? Not much, so I gotta give a quick thank you to you guys, my whole family. We thank you to you guys. Um, my whole family, uh, we all listen to your advice. My, my sister, my wife is a, uh, physical therapist. My sister is a strength and conditioning coach.

My brother's an athlete. My father's a pastor and he's the one who got us into weightlifting and my mom is a former college athlete. So we run all your programs and we really appreciate what you guys do. That's awesome. Good family. Awesome. So I'll give you a little bit of background. Um, I'm 27 years old, five foot 10, 218 pounds, about 17% body fat. Um, I'm a diversified farmer doing Christmas trees and maple sugaring in the

wintertime and then beef and hay during the summertime and also a part-time youth minister at our church. So I get in about six to twelve thousand steps in a day depending on if I'm at a desk more or if I'm out in the field. This past winter I reverse dieted from 3,000 calories up to 3,600 calories. And I was running Max Power Lift during that time. And I went from 215 pounds up to 225 pounds and a 39 and a half inch waist. And then in April through the end of June, I went into a cup from 3,600 calories down to 3,000.

I did a mini bulk in there as well, up to 3,500 calories. And at the end of June, I saw my lowest numbers at 215 pounds and 37 and a half inches on my waist. So I dropped 10 pounds and then also dropped 10 inches on my waist. I was feeling great. I was doing MAPS performance, phases two through four during that time.

And then July hit and we, I ended up going into MAPS anabolic, which is great. Stayed in the cut. But I ended up taking kids to a summer camp for two different weeks out of that summer and out of July. And then I also had a week in there where I think I got COVID and so I was down for the count. So kind of three weeks where I wasn't doing any training. I was eating camp food and not getting much sleep. And so that that felt like it threw things off and by the end of July I was up to

221 pounds and I had gained an inch on my waist. And so I felt like I didn't even know where my maintenance was anymore. So I figured I was probably somewhere around 3,000 calories And so then I went back into a cut dropping down to 2,500 calories. And so that's where I've been for August I just got done a couple days of a mini-bulk and So My original question that I wrote in was that,

is losing one pound and a quarter inch off my waist per week a good steady amount of fat loss? Should I be in a more aggressive cut? But since that time when I wrote in that question, things have kind of changed. I'm thinking it's been five months of coding with obviously you know July being thrown off in the middle of it all should I continue on this cut should I go back to reverse diet do another cut afterwards

I'd love to get down to about 200 pounds or 205 pounds that put me somewhere between 10 and 12 percent body fat. So any information would be super helpful. Are you noticing you're still leaning out? Like do you feel like you said you lost in still inches on the waist? Are you still leaning out right now? It feels like I've kind of hit a stall, a little bit of a wall, but I'm just wondering if I just kind of need to push through and Just continue on the cut. Maybe I'm just need to stick it out or is it time to change it up?

You're you're in a very healthy place just from everything you said You're doing exceptionally well know a pound of pure body fat loss a week is Wonderful pace. That's a great pace. That's like pure body fat, no muscle loss. You probably didn't see lots of strength loss. You probably maintained decently. Yeah, so I mean that's amazing. Now you said you might have stalled. Explain that. Like what is what does the stall look like? How many weeks or? Yeah. Yeah, so that was after July when I kind of like it felt like everything got thrown off and so then having gone back into a cut since then it just feels like it just feels

like things have kind of stalled out and I have it just feels like I haven't seen any progress from you know June until the end of August and so I don't know if I'm just it oftentimes it feels like I tend to be a person who overcorrects would be my guess and so yeah. I actually think you do a pretty good job bro. Every the way you broke down the cut the reverse diet the interrupting the cut with little mini bulks in there I don't know how much I would change. But the only thing I do differently, like you made the comment about July when you've been off on a break, anytime I fall off the wagon quote unquote for two weeks or a month or whatever it may be and I come

back, I never come back in a cut. I always come back in a maintenance surplus reverse bolt. So I think that is a better strategy just because at least what I've learned about my own behaviors is if I've fallen off my working out, I've also fallen off a hit my protein intake and getting what my body needs. And so the last thing I want to do after not feeding it good for two or three weeks and also not training is to go cut even harder or cut away stuff. That's when I go, you know what? My body needs to be nourished. I need to make sure I hit my protein intakes.

So I always come out of a break, especially in a non-planned break, where just kind of life happened, right? This happens to everybody. I always come back in a maintenance surplus strategy. Exactly the same, Adam. I do the exact same thing. It depends on the individual.

Like, if you're three weeks off was, you know was eating a lot more calories, then yeah, you would go down to a cut. But if you were sick and you were eating camp food and you were already eating 3,000 to 3,600 calories, I can imagine that your calories probably were lower in that three week period. Or missing essential ones. Definitely missing protein and stuff like that. So that's 100% what happens to me. I don't eat more when I'm sick. I eat less. And so I tend to get muscle muscle memory gains on the way out. I get some real good gains the weeks following recovery from illness because of that. But okay, so right now what you're at

2500 calories. Is that where you're sitting? That's where I'm sitting, yeah. You know, I would go in a small, I would add like a few hundred calories. I would give it to 3,000. Yeah, 2,800 calories, 3,000 calories. And what you wanna see on the scale is not a lot of movement. Because I know you still wanna get leaner.

So I think you'd wanna see maybe some loss of body fat from inches around the waist, maybe a little more definition, some increases in strength. We'll keep it nice and slow and that'll lean you out a little bit as well. So you'll find yourself, the scale might not move, but you'll find yourself getting a little leaner from doing that. Awesome. Yeah and then from there, well then you have, now you've got a couple roads to go. You can continue to reverse or go back down into a cut.

And a guy like you, you're healthy, you're strong, you've got a lot of lean body mass, your metabolism is really adaptable in some healthy ways. I think it's a good idea to get to 10% body fat sometimes to really see what it feels like to get that lean see how your body feels and responds and Here's the main reason why some of the best gains you'll ever have in your entire life Yeah coming out of a 10% body fat percentage, so you get down to 10 Then you do a nice controlled reverse diet and the pumps and the gains are

just awesome you know maybe this isn't good but it's ego boosting it's really it's really fun so someone like you you know that with where you're at that's that's that would be the reason why I would do it like you get lean oh I can see my abs everything's good I got veins then you reverse out of it and it's like oh my gosh I feel so anabolic yeah that sounds beautiful it's you know wintertime I'm working a lot in the woods and so I'm putting on a lot of miles just hiking through the woods during the sugar season and man it's it's a game-changer when you're lighter

on your feet oh you're just able to move to the woods so much better so that's and I've never been down to 10% body fat I've probably come down to like 12 or 13 um where you can start to see my abs, but Uh, yeah, i've never actually been able to push it to that point. You're so your your metabolism is so healthy You've got so much lean body mass. Uh, 10 won't cause any issues Now here's the challenge with 10% cause any issues. Now here's the challenge with 10%. Once you get down to 10, 9, 11, like in that range, things need to be much more consistent. So dialed.

Yeah, you're just dialed because then things move up pretty quickly from there. So like I could sit at 12% no problem. When I get to 10, 9, 8, and then I start to get, have to be really, really consistent. Like I don't, you know, my weekends even look good. I can get the 10 without, you know, rigorously tracking. I can just be consistent with the protein, eating, making good choices, get down to 10%. But once I get sub 10, it's, I have to be like dialed. I have to be tracking everything or else it's just so tough

to get past. There's not a lot of room for error once you get in the single digits. Are you in your home gym? What is that area that you're in? That's sick. Yeah. Yep. This is a garage gym. It used to be like an old like falling down garage and then my dad and I, uh, and probably about 10 years ago started rebuilding it.

And so now it's become the garage gym. Yeah. I thought it was an addict too. It looked like an addict. That's cool. That's great. So, uh, any of our programs you'd like to have access to? I'd love to give you some. If you don't have MAPS 15, I'd like to give you that. Cause I think as active as you are, I think you would benefit from having some cycles of a MAPS 15. Do you have that? I do. Yeah, I have a MAPS 15. What do you not have? What do you not have? I don't have a map strong.

I thought about doing power lift again this winter, but maybe doing strong will actually be a good change. You want some gains in your back? Like back traps, rumboys? Oh yeah, strong is like amazing. Yeah, that'll be a good one. Thank you guys. You got it, man. Hi, Brandon. Oh, he didn Brandon Even say bye Give him time

important question He's in a group. I mean, oh he's just for anybody listening right now the way he explained His approach how he's measuring his waist all good. He's not over obsessed. Where his calories were, his attitude, very good. Very balanced, very healthy. You know, bringing him down to 10% won't be a problem. Had he had a different relationship with calories and tracking and how his calories had been super low then it would have been a different conversation.

But this is a, I love. Great healthy approach. It's a really healthy approach and he can go in so many different directions and get great results. He brought something up that I would love to either make a fitness tip or dive a little deeper. And I know we don't have a lot of time to go deep on this, but that was a real,

a really good reminder of a conversation. I don't know if we've really elaborated on, uh, that I think is counterintuitive. Right. You, you go vacation for two or three weeks, you fall off the wagon, you know, you probably haven't been eating good and then... What do you do when you come out? Yeah, that's not common. When you come out, most people think, cut. I think the opposite. I actually think maintenance

surplus and then getting back. And so that'll be a good conversation. So we should get into that. Our next caller is Deborah from Wisconsin. Hi Deborah. Hey, hey, hey. How can we help you? Hello. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. I'm just want to start out by saying thank you for all the content you put out

there. I have a huge amount of gratitude for you, for helping change my mindset and my thought process around exercise and working out. Um, I can shout out my coach, coach Richard Sauer. He introduced me to your podcast. Um, about can shout out my coach, coach Richard Sauer. He introduced me to your podcast. Um, about four years ago, I listened to episode number 1565, why women should bulk and it literally blew my mind. So, um, I'll get into my question. That's okay.

Um, I'm 51 years old and I've been active since probably my late 30s, which started out with lots of running. I migrated into a boot camp style of class. And then finally, with the help of Coach Richard, we started, he started the lifting class at my old gym. And I've been lifting since about 2020 to present. So I'm not been like overweight during my journey, but I struggle with getting rid of the scale. And also I have a tendency to over exercise. I've made though, a very consistent exchange of body fat to muscle without going into a true bulk. So I did a DEXA scan like last January, 2023.

I was at like 19.7% body fat. I did another one about a year later, and I had lost two pounds of fat and gained two pounds of muscle, so that brought me down to about 17.5. So I'm wondering, and here's, if this is good progress for a year of consistent lifting and just staying at maintenance calories. I'd like to increase muscle. I'd like to get stronger, like to get a little leaner, but I struggle with the idea of a bulk. I stay about at maintenance calories, which is

about 1800 for me, sometimes a little less. And while my trainer works hard with me on helping me with my mindset, I can't seem to tolerate an increase in the scale or just the feeling of, I guess, adding too many calories or eating too much. So where would you go from here? And what would I expect in regards to good progress? Great question, Deborah, great question.

You know, our generation, we're in the same generation, really, really messed up women in particular when it comes to weight on the scale and et cetera. And it's funny, because the younger generation, we're getting these listeners now that are kids and you hear these girls talk about wanting to be muscle mommies and wanting to build and I love it. I absolutely love it. But our generation got

hammered with terrible messaging. So first off, you're crushing. You're killing it. You were lean anyway. 19% body fat is very lean. Then you got down to 17 just by staying consistent. I can guess right now that you're probably extremely consistent with your workouts. Very consistent. I don't think you're gonna miss them. Okay, so I'm gonna give you some advice that I think- I'm like you Sal, I can't miss them.

Okay, well, I'm gonna give you some advice that is gonna give you exceptional results, but it's gonna be really hard for you. Now you can keep doing what you're doing, but if you wanna go to the next level, the next level of maturity with fitness, your body, how it feels, your hormones, your energy, I'm gonna tell you to stop weighing yourself,

stop worrying about your calories, get stronger at the gym, and eat when you're hungry and lean into that. Lean into growing, but don't weigh yourself because that's gonna mess up your head. Now here's what you're gonna feel from that. You're gonna feel amazing. You're gonna feel so strong, so energetic and you're gonna look really good. Now 17% body fat for a woman sometimes, oftentimes causes hormonal changes that are not necessarily favorable. Your body probably likes to sit with a good amount of muscle closer

to something like 20-22% body fat. It gives you, it's just gonna make you feel better. Your joints are gonna feel more lubricated. You're gonna feel stronger. Your skin's gonna feel different. A lot of things are gonna feel different and better but we got to get rid of the scale and we got to take the foot off of the gas when it comes to measuring and tracking everything. Now you can keep working out and just try to get your mindset around the strength Because you're gonna love that you're gonna be like, oh my god. I'm lifting more weight. I'm pressing more. I'm pulling more I feel so strong. I feel so energetic. My libido is amazing

Like all these great things are gonna happen, but if you weigh yourself and you see it go up five pounds It's gonna set you back. I know that so the next level for you is to relax into what you're doing and relax into growing a little bit. Go ahead and grow a little bit. You gotta, don't worry about gaining tons of body fat. It's not gonna happen to you. I can guarantee you that right now. I know you're not gonna gain a lot of body fat, but I would not weigh myself and feed myself,

eat and get strong and then watch what happens. Watch what happens to your body, your mind, your hormones, everything. So Deborah, I'd like a little more clarity of what you want because you're in a place I would consider was my goal for all of my clients to get to where you're at. You're that consistent, you've got an incredible amount

of good muscle, you eat in this kind of maintenance type of surplus, balanced, you know, eating. I mean, you're literally are like a shining perfect example of what I'm trying to drive most of my clients to get to. What is it you're seeking? Like what do you want? Whether that be physically, mentally, spiritually, strength, like what's, what are you seeking? So I think a little more muscle development, I guess definition, a little bit more definition. Mentally, like I'd love to say I want to get rid of the scale, but it is like a comfort, right? Like it kind of keeps me, I feel like in my parameters in my head, which I know I need to like work on letting go. That's, um, I should probably just throw them out, but that's so scary.

So I guess muscle growth, like to be, to see more definition and I know I probably shouldn't want to get a little leaner but I kind of would like to see if I could go there even if I can't maintain it. So first of all you're already doing that. Now you're doing it at a nice very healthy slow rate. If you wanted that faster, then it's going to mess with you psychologically because the answer would be allow yourself to eat in a greater surplus. You put on a little bit of body fat, you're going to look a little softer, but that's what your body needs if you want to accelerate this muscle building process. And so we got to get covered. I think Sal's advice of dropping

the scale, I would even say drop the body fat percentage testing. I wouldn't want you to test anything. I'd say let if I'm coach, I'm saying this is our new calorie intake. Let's go get it. I expect you to be a little softer, but what I want to see is energy, strength, like all that stuff going up. Then I know we're building muscle and then say in, you know, four months, I go, okay, now we can go in a cut for a little bit and then we can lean out and carve away and reveal the hard work that you've done. But psychologically, you'll have to get past that part of the bulking process will make you look softer for a period of time before you decide to cut, unless you want to do it the way you're doing it, which is just a, which is okay also.

It's just a much slower approach of kind of hovering around maintenance because what's really happening is you're having periods of time where you're in just a slight surplus that's giving you enough calories to build some muscle. A majority of the time you're probably maintenance are below and you're cutting and leaning out, which results in this beautiful, you built two pounds of muscle, you burned two pounds of body fat, and you've got leaner this year.

That's kind of, I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. But if you want to accelerate that, you also will have to get over the hurdle of, for a period of time, I'm gonna look less lean, because that's part of the process. I'm in a surplus most the time. You're gonna have that momentarily. Debra, you're starting to also, you're also starting to dip into the body fat

range where you almost always see hormone imbalances start to develop with women. So can you get leaner? Yeah. Will you start to notice negative effects from it? Yes, I would say yes. I'd say you probably will I don't ever like to get women leaner than 17% for the most part Because then we start to notice issues with estrogen progesterone testosterone cortisol Growth hormone, you know, the body starts to really resist and things start to get a little little won. Now as far as the scale is concerned,

I'm gonna tell you right now, just straight up, it is robbing you of the joy that you can really get from what you're doing. Now you say it's comfort, it's bringing you comfort. This is what you'll hear from people with dysfunctional relationships. Why don't you leave that person? Ah, it's comfortable, it's something I know,

it keeps me, so you're scared, but I'm telling you, what's on the other end of this is a new level of joy that you're going to get from fitness. In other words, you're in an abusive relationship with the scale. That's true. Listen, and I know this because you're afraid of not weighing yourself. And look, if this might help, why don't you do this? Give yourself 90 days. Okay, 90 days I'll weigh myself if you really need that. But what you're gonna find is, wow I feel way better. Like this is way better to not worry about what's happening or you're so consistent I wouldn't be worried at all about you going off the rails. You've been doing this since your late 30s. I can tell by the way you're talking

like this is a part of your life. But there's absolutely that's why I mentioned your fitness maturity. There's levels of development that come from a fitness journey. And the next level for you is a far more relaxed, more joyful freedom, freedom that comes from what you're doing. The side effect of which being and I'll tell you right now, you're going to look and feel better. And that's the irony of the whole thing. The more you let go, the better your body's going to look.

I have to trust you on that. Yeah. Well, keep in mind. Because can I ask you something? Like given my age, there's this part of me that thinks like, you know, I know, because I've listened to you, obviously, that the, you know, letting yourself go into a surplus, maybe add a little body fat, but then that will convert hopefully to muscle, right? But there's this part of me too that worries about like,

I'm 51, I'm not sure if it works for people at 51. It works for everybody. Yeah, it works. Okay, here's the thing, here's the thing considering your age, although this is a small consideration, for you, so I'm talking to you now, okay? I'm not talking to the average 51 year old

that is inactive and eats whatever and doesn't work out and is on 50 million Right different prescriptions. This is for you. Okay? For you the risk the risk for you is actually going to be getting too lean I'm gonna tell you right now If you start to if you continue to kind of go and get leaner and leaner leaner The hormone effects that you will get can put will potentially throw you into a place where you're gonna hate, you're not gonna like it, and it'll be very tough to come out of because you're already so lean. You're already 17%. Where do you want to go 15? I can almost guarantee

you that we're gonna see some negative effects on your hormones if we continue moving in that direction. So you're actually, for you, the better approach for, in consideration of your age and all that stuff, is going to be to take that scale away, eat more food, and get stronger. Now I wouldn't say this to the sedentary 51 year old who hasn't cared about this or hasn't made this part of their life, but for you, you'll be way better off across the board. And you can give yourself 90 days, say, look, alright alright fine I'm not gonna weigh myself for 90 days. I'm not gonna test anything for 90 days except for my strength I'm gonna go into bulk and I'm just gonna focus on my strength and then and then here's what's gonna happen Watch the comments or compliments you get from the people around you watch right about 30 days in people are like, oh my god

You're looking what's going on. You look great. wow, you look, are you building or you look great? Or you look so healthy. That's the compliments you're gonna get from people. Okay, so give up the scale for 90 days. Where's the scale, is it in that gym with you? I've got two. You gotta get rid of both of them. I do wanna prepare you, I want to prepare you a little bit different than what Sal said.

Because he did say, I actually think it'll be hard. I actually think that you just like in an abusive relationship. You have no idea. Yeah, I do know. I know. And so I just want to mentally prepare you for that. I think you're going I think like in an abusive relationship There's gonna be this pool to go back and get beat still even though you know It's bad for you. You know, you need to be away from it You know on the other side is the better version of you But in that initial period of almost being addicted to that thing you will have it you'll have withdrawal

You'll have a struggle with it and all the things are gonna mess with you. Your reflection in the mirror, the way your clothes fit you one day, you're gonna have those, you're gonna have that. And so you need to make peace with that. What you need to realize is, I'm 51, I'm this badass, I can go back and get it whenever I want. And let me tell you, you can.

You've already proven that. You've proven that you can be extremely lean, fit, strong, healthy, muscular at 51 years old. Trust me, you can go get that again anytime you want, especially coming from a place of, I'm going to tell you to feed a surplus. I'm only going to help your metabolism. I'm only going to make your body feel even better. So it's only going to be that much more charged up to be able to get back where you're currently at if you need to or want to. So you just need to remind yourself that as you're going through this process because the initial, you know, ripping the scale away will be difficult and will mess with your head. So be prepared for that. Be mentally prepared for that and set a goal of I'm not touching it for 90 days and be competitive

with yourself in that manner versus I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna trust Sal and then when you start having those feelings you're like oh fuck it, this is horrible. Yeah yeah oh god I gotta go back. No don't do that. Give him to your trainer. What was his name again? Give those scales to your trainer and tell him give him to you in 90 days. Yeah I feel like... He's asked me. He said yeah I will. Okay that's the plan. Yeah I have a feeling if he's been listening to us for a long time I'm sure he's probably giving you the same advice. Yeah. He sounds pretty good. He has given me the exact same advice.

Yeah. It does help to hear it though again from you guys. So I appreciate it. What's great, Deborah, is you actually, what's really nice is that you've invested in someone like that who gets it and is he's going to be the one to keep talking sense into you when every time you want to leap. Like, so that's good you have someone in your great I am like the poster child for like why you need a good trainer because

I never would have gone down this road without his guidance and his coaching and his encouragement that's awesome obviously a great job because you look badass yeah you know Deborah let me help you out. Why don't we do a check-in in 90 days? You want to come back on the show? Yes, I'd love it. All right, let's do it. Accountability, here we go.

90 days from now, we're going to have you back on the show, and I'd love to hear all about the challenges, the successes, and the whatever. Whatever happens. All right, deal. All right, Deborah. I'm nervous, but I'll do it. Yeah, you got this. You got this. Totally right, deal. All right, Deborah. I'm nervous but I'll do it. You got this. You can do it. All right. Thanks you guys. Thank you. Awesome. She's gonna, if she does it, she's gonna love what happens. Well she's obviously really disciplined. Oh yeah. It's all new discipline

that she's got to figure out and women need to know this like Your you hormone issues are very common when you start to get real lean very few women can sit at 17 percent or less and not you not exhibit or have kind of hormone imbalance issues It's not common any lower just is probably not a good idea. No, no Just sit there at least right just to sit there for a while You need body fat for balance in your body, both men and women. It's just a different percentage. I mean, a 51 year old female, she's at peak what I would ever want to get to my clientele. Oh yeah, I know. I mean, she would be the shining example.

Yeah, it's like, this is like, we could be this ripped. You could be like any more than that and you're right, we're gonna dip into an unhealthy place. I think she knows all this. I think she's very aware. I think she knows it. She's got a good coach who's telling her this. It simply is the trying to, and I tell you what, here's where investing in somebody is so, I mean, it's powerful no matter what, but when you recognize that you have a poor relationship with either exercise or nutrition or the scale in this case. It's a blind spot, yeah. You know it, having somebody else there to kind of keep you focused and not fall back or not give back in is huge. You know what, Doug, why don't we invite them both

into our forum, the trainer and her, and then let's invite the trainer to the free trainer forum that we have. Yeah, if he's not already in there. Our next caller, Sarah from Wisconsin. Hi, Sarah. How you doing, Sarah? How can we help you? Hello, hello.

Hi, guys. How you doing? Hi. Well, first of all, I'm very excited to be here. It's a little bit surreal. And of course, thank you for all your great content. But I really have to thank my trainer Josh that introduced me to you guys. And so I just want to shout him out Josh Scherfinski from Lifetime in Brookfield, Wisconsin. So, and I'll just read my question if that's okay. Yeah. Okay. So it's been a few months. So I'll just update things as needed from my original email. I'm a 47 year old female, and I'm just over one year into my strength training journey. I've always been fit and active. I used to actually teach Pilates in my

30s so I've just always had a fit lifestyle but never really lifted weights and I've seen incredible results thanks to my trainer Josh and of course listening to all of your content. So here's some background. My stats when I started just over a year ago, which was May of 2023, I was, Oh, and I'm five foot seven. Um, it was about 162 pounds, 31% body fat. Um, pretty strong because of a Pilates yoga and orange theory. Yes, I know. It's okay, Adam, you don't have to say background. I had no idea about the benefits of protein.

I knew about whole foods and eating well, but didn't really understand hitting protein targets. My stats now, when I started this journey, I was blessed enough to not have to work anymore. So I do not work. I'm very active. I get 10 to 12,000 steps per day. I lived with Josh twice a week, twice a week almost every week, very diligently.

I also play pickleball about two hours, three to four times a week. I'm incredibly addicted to pickleball. I'm now at 150 pounds, 22% body fat. I feel like I'm very strong. I benched 100 pounds. I was really excited about that. I can do two consecutive body weight chin-ups with perfect form.

And I recently, I've never tested my one rep deadlift max, but I can do about 150 pounds for multiple reps for a couple of sets. I do prioritize protein. I try to get over 100 grams every day. I know I should be getting more than that, but sometimes it's really hard to choke it down. I did recently have a Dutch hormone test just to see where I was because I am in my late 40s, so I just wanted to have a baseline. Am I going into menopause?

I'm not, they said all my levels are optimal. So on paper, I feel like I'm doing everything right. My question is, can I lean out while eating my maintenance calories? I did a cut several months ago. So this was about six months ago now. I went from 24 to 22 percent body fat, but I experienced major diet fatigue. I went back to my maintenance calories, which

is 22 to 2400, and I've maintained that 22 percent body fat. And I've done that all summer and I've maintained that all summer. I think I thought when I got to this body fat percentage, I'd be happy with how I look aesthetically, but I still feel soft in areas. I'm way stronger. I feel like I look really good in clothes, but I really want defined abs. Can I lose a couple more percent body fat

without going on another cut? Full disclosure, my weakness is wine. Of course. Hey, listen, you're doing really good. Your strength, your workout programming is great. Two days a week of strength training, five days a week of pickleball. Your 22% body fat is a wonderful body fat percentage.

I'm looking at your pictures, you look amazing. You did a Dutch test, which is the best hormone test, in my opinion. Everything looks balanced. You're doing exceptionally well. Now I want some clarification. You said that you average around 100 grams of protein a day. I, so I was, when I was doing my cut, I got up to that 150 and I was really, my calories were mostly protein. I've pulled back on that a little bit sometimes it's just really hard to eat that much and so I almost always get at least over a hundred grams. I try for that 120 to 150 but

every day at least over a hundred. So you know the two things that jump up. I know this is easy for me. If you were my clients what I would have you do. I'd have you keep your calories at maintenance but I'd bump your protein up to about 130-140 grams a day. That's it. And what you'll get is a nice slow lean out without diet fatigue, without feeling any like you're pushing yourself too hard. Your body weight might not even change because you'll probably build muscle as you lose body fat. So literally hit 130 a day, keep your calories where they're at though. So you might have to cut out some carbs

and some fats to make up the difference. That's it, so it's a little bit of a transfer. It's not much, it's like 30 grams, little bit of a transfer, and then it'll be a nice slow process. I just want to stress why this is so important in the context of what you do. If you are doing 10 hours of cardio pickleball a week and you're also having days where you miss protein, this is what's keeping us from building that

muscle and leaning out period. End of story. Like literally and so if you were my client and you loved pickleball that much and but yet you really want these results, I would say okay the way you earn pickleball is by hitting your protein intake. And if you don't, you need to lay off. That's how I would motivate you. I'd say, I love it. I love what you're doing. But if you want to get leaner and you want to see that what is keeping us from that is all is missing protein in conjunction with also doing that much cardio, how much cardio wouldn't be that bad if you're eating in a surplus of protein you'd probably be just fine

but it's the you probably miss some days or and you're on the low end and then in addition to that we're doing quite a bit of cardio. If you if you hit that you're gonna see what you want. Now there's a couple ways to do this you can you can stick to whole natural foods and make a little bit of a transfer. All right, I'll cut some of the rice out or the potato or some of the olive oil or fat or whatever. Replace it with some extra protein. Or you can make it easier on yourself. This is the less optimal way. It's another way to do it.

You add a 30 gram protein shake and then cut some calories somewhere else and make up the difference. But now here's why I want I would want you to do it in this way in a nice slow Fashion because you'll see a nice slow lean out You'll probably lose one or two percent over the course of two months something like that month and a half two months Because you're doing so well and you're so healthy. I wouldn't want to mess with anything Like I don't want to push too hard Okay, and throw things out getting you leaner just so you could feel shittier and have your hormones go off a little bit Like I don't to me. that's not a good trade.

2% body fat for hormone profile to be worsening and for feeling worse makes no sense to me. But if you do it nice and slow, like I said, you're gonna feel great, you'll feel just as good as you do now. And what you're gonna notice is you're just gonna change nice and slow and get leaner and build some muscle.

I also have one more request, if you're gonna notice is you're just gonna change nice and slow and get leaner and build some muscle I'd also have one more request if you were client of mine is I want to make sure Good hour hour to two hours before you're getting a good good big meal before that pickleball two-hour session And then at the one hour mark I would love for you to have a ready to drink protein shake with you like that That would be a great because because you're two hours consistent of intense kind of cardio like that's a lot. And when you start getting past that hour mark like that, the body's going like, oh God, we need something.

And this is where it starts to use other sources instead of just body fat, which is what you ultimately would just want to be utilizing. It needs to be fed. So you need to break it up and at the hour marker, give or take, right around that hour mark, give yourself a ready to drink protein shake that's already ready to go, whether you make it yourself or you buy one. You know, now

that you're saying that Adam, you know 30 grams of protein, if you're averaging 100 and we go up 30 grams of protein, what is that, 120 calories? What is that? That's nothing. I don't even, don't even cut anything, just add 30 grams of protein. Just literally, just do, Just literally add the 30 gram shake like Adam said and do nothing else. You'll be fine. That's an easy way to do it. This is literally the only thing that is hindering us right now. It's the two hours of cardio with probably also not hitting protein optimal numbers consistently. You do that and you're gonna see a world of a difference.

This is one of those few times a supplement will make the difference. Literally, I think 120 calories extra isn't gonna make you gain any body fat. But the extra 30 grams of protein, perfect. And the way Adam just positioned it, I think that'd be perfect. Okay, yeah, and I mean, I get really good sleep.

I'm an excellent sleeper. Thank God And I take my creatine and my electrolytes and all the things so yeah, I can do that. That's easy You're doing great. Yeah, you really are doing great. These are like little too You could also change nothing and just keep kicking ass. You're doing great. Yeah, but yeah, you add a little extra protein You'll probably you'll go down 1 to 2% body fat just from doing that. You would also, just so you know, you would benefit from a real traditional strength training bulk, and we put all of our energy towards that. But you already said to me you love pickleball,

and I would never want to take that from you. Because it's good for you too. And you're doing good. Well, I kind of want, Josh and I have talked about doing a bulk because I've talked about maybe doing a powerlifting competition. Because I've seen my strength get up and I'm I feel like I have more that I can do. But that just makes me real nervous. So I mean you you would really bet you would but I don't

like taking something that an activity that you love doing that's good for you like pickleball like you're enjoying it. Always think you're, you're good. Think quality of life. And longevity too. But if we're purely talking from a, I wanna see my abs, I like more muscle, like that standpoint, yeah, you would benefit from doing a all-strength focused type of training program, scaling way back on all the pickleball,

and really trying to bulk, trying to get strong, and then coming back to a cut, reintroducing pickleball and that, that would serve you. But again, when a client is really enjoying activity like that, I try my best, how could I modify to kind of have our cake and eat it too? I think in this situation, it's adding the protein shake in between the two hour pickleball session,

should make a world of a difference. And think again, think quality of life. Like I think you have a really good quality of life, it sounds like. I think adding a protein shake is it, that's it. That's almost never it. Yeah, that's it. But with you, that's pretty much it.

You had a 30 gram, 40 gram protein shake and you'll just, it'll be a nice slow transfer, body fat and muscle. Nice and slow over a two month period or so Okay amazing, thank you so much And thank you for shouting out your trainer I love it when people shout out good trainers because we know what an impact they make. So thank you. I appreciate that Yeah, he's amazing. All right, sarah. Thank you. Thank you

We're just getting people doing great. I love it. I love it. It's a high five day. That is what a great place to be for her. Well, you know, the, the common thing between those two, right? They both got good trainers. You know, I swear when people look at the money that they spend on all kinds of

ways to try to lose weight and whatever. If you took that and just invested it in a good trainer or coach for like a few months, the the the effects would last you a lifetime just from what you learn and from the guidance. It's just so valuable and you see it. You see it when people work with a good trainer. Yeah, you know, this is too like a a great scenario because there's different things that we can do here. And I really would have to weigh out, if she was my client, we were spending more time together,

if she was like, man, Adam, I really wanna see the abs, I really wanna, she's telling me that, then you would hear me start to encourage her like, well, you know, I know you love pickleball, which one do you love more? Do you love pickleball a lot more or do you really wanna see the abs more? Okay, well then maybe we scale back a little bit of that, let's increase protein. Let's go on a bulk. Let's try and follow

something like Maps Powerlifter Strong and build a bunch of muscle and then we come back the other way and I can reintroduce the pickleball. Like I would encourage you, but when you got someone who's got a really good, like you said, you can hear it in her voice. You can see it in her glow in her face. It's like she's sleeping great. I mean she's she's doing really good. You hate to mess that up just for some abs. You know what I'm saying? It's like and abs aren't don't bring happiness. Everybody thinks it makes you so happy. It doesn't. No no she's doing great. Our next caller is Josh from the United Kingdom. Josh what's up man? What's happening Josh? Hello nice to see you guys. So just wanted to start off with a ritual by thanking everyone on Mindpump

for the present impact you have on the fitness space, like you are to me and many others, the most credible source of non-biased information on the internet. Thank you. Just want to get out there. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Right, I will revert to my original email, even though my situation has changed since then because it was a while ago. But my background is since Covid I've taken control of my health but struggled with my relationship to food that's resolved in yo-yo dieting. But every time I've relapsed I've been self aware of the mistakes, got back up and buried in on my habits to eliminate the hard falls. I've dropped a total of 56 pounds in four years. And my question is related

to the current situation at the time, as I've been on a cut for my last diet fall since New Year, but my work routine has also changed to night shift. I've had no trouble with the diet early exercise or the consistency as I've rode the train more than once, but my sleep, which was good at the start of the cut has gradually declined and I'm now getting maybe four to five hours of sleep on my working days and eight on the weekend eight to ten. I want to know what the relationship between cutting calories for extended periods of time are with your hormones and sleep and if you think the combination of my work shift is making the situation worse and what I should do about it. Okay, and I'll give you a quick- Calling on from that, Mike. Yeah, go on. I'll give you a quick answer for that, Josh, but then I'd like to know what your situation

is now afterwards. But what's the relationship between cutting calories and hormones and sleep? Well, they tend to make them worse, generally speaking. If your cut is too long, too extended, then you start to see negative effects on the hormones. Now there's caveats there, right? Like if you're really obese and you're just overeating and not doing well and you clean things up, you tend to see

things get better on both. But if it's too extended for too long, then your hormones, testosterone drops, growth hormone goes down, cortisol goes up, and sleep starts to get disrupted as well in ways that are like extreme fatigue but restless at the same time type of deal. But I'd like to know now what it looks like now and is there a different question now? Yeah, it's kind of following on. I'm kind of like not knowing what my goal is now,

whether to, let me just read what I've written down. It's in the current situation, since I emailed has changed. I've come off of night shift. Thank God, like it was only temporary for some training in my work and my sleep's returned to normal, which is great. I was always pretty consistent before and because I put it through hell, it literally felt like I'd been battered within an inch of my life for doing night shift for six months. I reckon I was losing about a night's worth of sleep a week and I was just, sorry I'm just trying to read what I've done here. I've put on a bit of weight since I've come back out of night shift but it's because I've been either just listening to my body or I've been a bit less consistent

in the gym but I've just been trying to please every aspect of my life because it was so shattering to do what I did well nights. I was like, I just want to listen to my body, eat when I feel like it. Yeah, so that's where I've been since then. And every time I've tried to get in the rhythm of losing those eight pounds again, I've not really seen much difference on a scale and I just feel that my metabolism's been hammered from what I've done to my body or maybe my hormones have crashed. Yeah maybe how long ago was it that you stopped the night shift? Six months. In June so I did from the start of January to the middle of June. Okay so a couple months., and it sounds like you gave yourself

a mental break afterwards, is what it sounds like when you say, when you eat what you want, and you need that. You need that when you come out of something like that. All right, how do you get back into it? You just get on something consistent and don't overdo it, that's it. And just stay consistent, and don't worry about the scale,

don't worry about what's going on. Your body will start to balance itself out. But you're right, if you're losing a night's worth of sleep every week over a six month period, it's probably going to take you 90 days or longer. It's going to take a while to get reacquainted. Yeah, to start to recover. There's a lot that happens. I mean, they even show data that the brain shrinks and the body literally starts to change over that period of time. You see this with like new mothers in the first year. It ravages the body and then it takes like a year or two for them to come back.

So I like MAPS 15 here. MAPS 15 would be great. That's a great way to work out right now. MAPS 15 advanced, hit your protein targets, avoid processed foods and just be consistent. That's it. Yeah, yeah. I play a lot of soccer or football as we call it as well. So it's not that I

haven't been exercising since come off nights, but I've been constantly doing that kind of cardio thing, maybe two hours a week is that my gym's just kind of been like, that because I was doing it when I was on nights, the thought of doing it now with how I felt then was just like, I kind of I probably avoided it, say, but I just trying to find a reason to get back into it and get going again. I just felt like my body's changed since I was last in a good place. It did change, but it'll come back.

You're young and you just got out of it. It just happened in June. Maps 15 and doing your soccer is perfect, man. Do map maps 15 and hit your protein intake like Sal said and you're good to go. Do you have MAPS 15 yet? No, I've got anabolic and I bought it when I was on nights and then I started to kind of a big decline like just all around in my life so I didn't even bother starting it if I was honest. It would have just killed me.

The frequency element to MAPS 15 is really going to be helpful for you to help your body kind of get back to that transition it needs. So this really going to be helpful for you to help your body kind of get back to that Transition it needs so this is going to be a good moment for you It's really it's about the frequency and like, you know, re-educating your body Yeah as to what you know, it is the proper dose of Stimulus by the way at the end of the cycle of mass 15 So after you complete the program go right into maps anabolic, you should be okay by them. Yep cycle of MAPS-15. So after you complete the program, go right into MAPS Anabolic. You should be okay by then.

Yep. Yeah. So you guys don't think that my metabolism's adapted in that time? Yeah, I did. But it's going to adapt back. Yeah, yeah. It just happened. It's not optimal yet. We'll get there. No, no, no. How old are you? Yeah. 24.

You're fine. Yeah. You're totally fine. It was only six months. You just got out of it in June. If you're probably just now starting to feel like maybe there's some light at the end of the tunnel, it takes a second to recover from something like that. Like people underestimate just how damaging loss of sleep is to the body. A full eight hours to nine hours of sleep lost a week is a lot, especially in a consistent basis. Yeah yeah it's a lot for sure what kind of work is it by the way what required you to do that i work for an aerospace

company so they're kind of 24 hour production around the clock like fabricating components yeah uh for like airbus and gkn and those kind of big those big league companies so they've got they've got around the clock kind of system you'll feel back to normal probably by the end of Mass 15. Yeah. Yeah, all right. All right. Thank you very much. Yeah, because I felt literally instantly better when I came off nights when my sleep had returned. But in terms of every time I dieted or lost weight or put on weight, I just wasn't seeing the same rhythm or consistency that I was last time and I just

feared that I'd done something to my body with burning through that hell. You did do something to your body but it's not permanent. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Not at all. Yeah. You're good bro, you're gonna be fine. Yeah all right. Yeah thank you. I didn't need that kind of insurance. Yeah we'll send Mass 15 over to you brother. You got it. Yeah. Oh amazing, thank you very much. You got it man. All right Josh. You got it. Yeah. Oh, amazing. Thank you very much. You got it, man. All right, Josh. Take it easy.

Yeah, I know. Hopefully speak to you soon. If I could, I would ask you about a million questions. This message is not possible. So, do you know what I mean? You got it. Come back. Thank you, guys.

All right, Josh. Yeah, I will. Yeah, especially at 24. I probably lost, I lost that much sleep for years in my 20s. And it took a long time to recover from it. But you recover, you do recover, even if you're a little older. Yeah, I remember Courtney was on the night shifts when she was nursing and it was like, oh my God. Because even then during the day, you're trying to sleep and it's like you get

interrupted by the dogs, by like, you know know somebody coming by the house and so yeah just to transition back took months. I don't know if that is worse or what I what I put myself through in high school was flip-flopping in the week so I had two I had two shifts of the week or so it was when I was milking cows right so you milk cows twice a day yeah and it's at four o'clock so it's either 4 a.m. or 4 p.m. And so two of the shifts I ran at the 4 p.m. time, the other two shifts are at the 4 a.m. time. So like, I haven't, yeah.

When you're young like that, I mean, you know, your body rebounds, he'll be okay. He feeds himself properly, gets on a program like Mass 15, you know, the right dose for him, like he'll rebound, it's only a matter of time. Look, if you love the show, come find us on Instagram. Mind Pump Justin is where you'll find Justin, you'll find me at Mind Pump to Stefano,

and Adam at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically

transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show,

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