Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2446: Stop Doing “3 Sets of 12” to Build Muscle & DO This Instead! (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

Mind Pump Fit Tip: Stop doing “3 Sets of 12” to build muscle & DO this instead! (2:08) Cringy politicians. (19:38) We need each other. (24:25) The difference between a prebiotic and a probiotic. (38:27) Food dyes and your children’s health. (39:43) Brilliant marketing by Plunge. (49:16) Strength gains in the elderly. (55:21) Shout out to Jake Heyen! (57:54) #ListenerLive question #1 – If I eat more fat can that cause me to gain more weight during a cut? (59:32) #ListenerLive question #2 – How should you workout while pregnant? (1:15:12) #ListenerLive question #3 – Am I losing out on a serious amount of gains due to my body not processing everything correctly? And how can I resolve this? (1:25:45) #ListenerLive question #4 – Do you see lift changes between programs? (1:34:41) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off. ** Visit Plunge for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump Listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP at checkout for $150 off your order ** October Promotion: MAPS Muscle Mommy 50% off! ** Code OCTOBER50 at checkout ** Mind Pump #1827: The 3 Best Rep Ranges to Build Muscle & Burn Fat Mind Pump #1932: Lifting Heavy Vs. Lifting Light What’s Driving Women To The Left And Men To The Right? - Arthur Brooks California is first state to banish Froot Loops from school cafeterias Landmark Ruling Declares Fluoridated Water a Threat to Children’s IQ California Autism Prevalence by County and Race/Ethnicity: Declining Trends Among Wealthy Whites Liquid Death Is Selling a Limited Edition Cold Plunge That Will Have You 'Flirting With Hypothermia' Can You Gain Muscle as You Age? New Research Says Yes! Association of Grip Strength With Risk of All-Cause Mortality, Cardiovascular Diseases, and Cancer in Community-Dwelling Populations: A Meta-analysis of Prospective Cohort Studies Mind Pump Newsletter Get your free Sample Pack with any “drink mix” purchase! Also try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water: Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump Building Muscle with Adam Schafer – Mind Pump TV Mind Pump # 1375: How to Train Before, During & After Pregnancy Mind Pump # 548: Ben Pakulski is Giving Away 100 Pounds of Pure Muscle MAPS Prime Pro Webinar Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Ronnie Coleman (@ronniecoleman8) Instagram Dexter “The Blade” Jackson (@mrolympia08) Instagram Bret Weinstein (@bretweinstein)  Twitter Arthur Brooks (@arthurcbrooks)  Instagram Max Lugavere (@maxlugavere) Instagram Mark Bell (@marksmellybell) Instagram Chris Williamson (@chriswillx) Instagram Jake Heyen (@jakeheyen) Instagram Ben Pakulski (@bpakfitness) Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind there's only one place to go Mind pump with your hosts Sal DeStefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is mind pump right in today's episode We had live callers call in we got to help them out That was at the end of the episode but the beginning the intro portion, this is where we talk about current events, fitness, family life, fun stuff. That was 57 minutes long. So after that we get to the live callers. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this one, email us at live at mindpumpmedia.com. This episode is brought to you by two sponsors. The first one is Organifi. Today we talked about their better biome gummies. These are prebiotics.

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Get 20% off. This episode's also brought to you by Plunge. This is the world's premier cold therapy devices. In fact, they have a wide range of products. Some far less expensive than others. Some of them give you everything like filtered water, maintains the temperature of the water that you're in. Other ones you fill it yourself, way less expensive. Go check them out if you want the benefits of cold water therapy. Go to plunge.com and use the code MINDPUMP get $150 off. We also have a sale on a workout program this month. MAPS muscle mommy 50% off. If you're interested go to MAPSfitness

products.com and then use the code October 50 for the discount. Alright here comes the show. T-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time! Ah shit Doug you know it's my favorite time comes the show. T-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time! Ah, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week. We have two winners this week, none for Apple Podcasts, two for Facebook.

The Facebook winners are Karen Jungle Steinback and Robert A. Dempster. Both of you are winners. Send the name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com. Include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you Stop doing three sets of 12 to build muscle and do this instead. You guys want to guess Stop doing the three sets of 12 and do this instead With that intro my guess is you're gonna tell people to change the rep range Yeah, five by five or low rep range. You guys remember when you're going? Yeah, so

Oftentimes we get stuck in like a set count and a rep count or a range that's kind of similar like eight to twelve right three sets tends to be the norm and Oftentimes we don't challenge that or think that that has any profound effect if we do challenge that. And I remember the first time, I guarantee you guys have a similar story. I remember the first time that I went outside of that and was blown away at the progress that I made.

One of the first times I did this was, I've told this story before, I had a trainer who used to practice bench press. Back in the days, when we were kids in the 90s, bench press was the exercise. If somebody wanted to ask you how strong you were, the question was how much could you bench? So it was an important exercise for your ego. I remember I had this trainer that worked for me who just really had this really strong bench press. I used to notice him go out to the floor and he would do like one or two reps on the bench press and he would do this kind of throughout the day or

whatever and I thought is that is that how he's getting so strong and I asked me so yeah as soon as I started doing something like that I got so strong so at that point I started practicing my lifts where I would do instead of three sets of 10 or 12 or even six, I would do like six or seven sets of one. So I'd go into a workout, I'd load a bar, work my way up, warm up, and then I'd do one rep. And it wasn't a max, it was heavy, but it wasn't my max. And then I would do like seven sets of one rep.

And my strength gains absolutely exploded above and beyond anything I experienced before. That was my first time really going oh there's something to training in different rep ranges. It's not just about the exercises. The rep ranges themselves actually make a difference. Oh I had to learn that lesson about five times. You mean because you did one and then you thought that was all the different versions? That's exactly right. So this is how, this is, I mean, looking back, I think like, how stupid was I, right?

But like the typical young teenager, early 20s, in pursuit of building muscle and getting bigger, you know, I was constantly reading articles and, you know, asking every gym bro I could get, you know, talk to, what should I do, what do I do this, I mean I was in search of what I need to do. And I remember, originally I was a six rep guy

because at that time whatever. Mass was six rep. Yeah, yeah, that was like to build mass and size, that's what I had read and so that's where I was at. I was there for probably years. And then it was this bodybuilding guy that was just incredible shape. And I saw him doing like these real light like bicep curls, like hella reps. And I was looking at him like, dude, this dude is jacked. And he's like,

I curl more than what he's curling right now. This can't be like, so I remember asking him and he was a trainer and he was probably a decent trainer because his response back to me, he asked me, well, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, I always do this, this and he was probably a decent trainer because his response back to me, he asked me, well what are you doing? And I'm like, oh, I always do this, this, and he's like, oh, he's like, bro, you gotta lift 15 to 20 reps. And I'm like, oh, I don't wanna get toned. You know? I'm not trying to get toned, bro, I'm trying to get jacked.

He's like, yeah, no, this is gonna grow your arms more than that. So then I went and did that, and then sure as shit, boom, I broke through this plateau and saw some gains I'd never seen. So then I was like, oh my God, it's 15 to 20 reps. It's not six. What was I doing? I was doing the wrong thing forever. There, same thing, going forever. Then I read somewhere else, like the benefits of what true hypertrophy is. That's 10 to 12 rep range. I'm like, oh shit, so it's somewhere in the middle.

I was doing that wrong. So I go there, sure enough again, what happens? Boom, breakthrough plateau. I'm like, oh my God, this is it. So I stuck there for another year or so. And it wasn't until, I really think, until after that and getting the advice of going back to the other directions that I realized, oh, the secret sauce in this is, and I guess at that time in my life, and I'm even a young trainer at this point, I don't really fully grasp adaptation and how the body adapts to something

and then how novelty changes that so much. I understood these rep ranges, but I didn't realize that it doesn't matter how good this rep range may be for me building muscle. If I've been doing that for 8, 10, 12 weeks or longer, that almost any other rep range is going to stimulate building muscle and building growth than that one. And so that was kind of finally when I pieced that together like, oh, this is the problem is I need to always be

kind of manipulating through, which is probably what led me to the next problem that I ran into, which is like, oh, muscle confusion. Fucking, now I'm doing all the rep ranges, all the different exercises and every workout. And again, saw some good results from that, right? I all of a sudden throw this curve ball at my body. Every workout was, I used to, literally that was,

I prided myself on saying that, like, I've never repeated a workout once. They're always, like, I thought that was a good thing. You know what I'm saying? That's how much I'm dedicated to confusing my muscles, right? So I'm changing the reps reps I'm changing the exercises and initially when I did that of course I saw a change in game like there was a novel stimulus and then eventually hit that plateau and then I again realized

like okay there's there's a more methodical approach to this that I need to apply that I had never applied before and then it really and by the way this whole journey, you know, I've openly shared too, like in my twenties, I was doing steroids and doing whatever thing I could to gain muscle and you know, little plateau breaks, a little bit of muscle here and there. I really started to gain, build, change my physique,

have that cover of a magazine look way later. And the answer wasn't all the different things I tried, anabolic and supplements, so that it really was understanding programming and nutrition. That's it. Like once that all come full circle for me and I really grasped how important it was to know how to program workouts and how important it was to be consistent with the diet, especially with protein intake. That was when, oh my God, now I could do almost anything with my physique.

I wanna, you wanna be big jack guy? Do I wanna be lean and shredded? Do I wanna be someone that like, then I could control all that. It had nothing to do with all the drugs and shit that I tried. Yeah, I just leaned completely in the strength phases forever. Like, as I was, it was a very competitive environment

because it was very much me against my friends who were on the same team as me. And so we would all train together. And it was like you'd split off into groups and it was like who could lift the most at each one of these core lifts? And that's all I cared about. I didn't care about the process to get me strong.

I'm just like, I'm gonna keep testing and try the next week. Keep adding five, about like it, you know, the process to get me strong. I'm just like, I'm going to keep testing and try, you know, the next week, keep adding five, keep adding five, keep adding. And that was it. Then it was like, it ranged from five reps to 10. And that was as much as I would possibly do as 10 reps. And I did that forever until finally probably even like out of high school, I started to kind of, you know, venture into like the 12 to 15 to 20 rep range. And it just absolutely destroyed me. I remember it was like,

it was even when I was working for Adam and I first kind of, when I graduated, it came back. I'd never done a super setting. And then you introduced me to that. And it was like an addiction after that because it just felt, I was like, Oh my God, my muscles feel like so tight. I can walk. And I was like an addiction after that because it just felt I was like, oh my god My muscles feel like so tight I can walk and I was like, dude What is this and I wanted to figure it out like could do that with my legs too And it's so it was like I get all these new gains and all the stuff I got addicted to that But yeah, you just got to weave back and figure out like they all have benefit to there's an old saying in in strength training

I think it's a bodybuilding saying, but it says most things work, nothing works forever. Oh yeah. And it's such a true statement. I think a lot of the confusion around this also has to do with the studies around rep ranges because they can confuse people quite a bit. That's why.

Yeah, because you'll see a 16 week study or a 12 week study and what they'll do in these studies is they'll compare rep ranges And they'll take groups of young men usually college-aged males and they'll compare, you know, three to six reps Mm-hmm eight to twelve reps and 15 to 20 reps and they'll have them trained for 16 weeks or 12 weeks At the end of the study they'll measure Muscle hypertrophy and then the report will come, and it'll say eight to 12 reps is superior for muscle growth.

But here's what a lot of people don't realize, is all of those rep ranges grew muscle. They all did, and there is no year, or two year, or three year long study. It's too expensive, but if they did that, here's what you would find, that eight to 12 reps would have great until it stopped. And then they'd have to switch to another rep range. If they did that, here's what you would find. That eight to 12 reps would work great until it stops. In this window.

And then they'd have to switch to another rep range. And the people that understand switching rep ranges at the right time, knowing when to switch exercises at the right time and which ones not to switch, those are the people that make all the progress. But again, when people look at those studies, and this is what I love to tell trainers of mine that work for me later on when I understood this,

they'd say, oh, but the study says eight to 12 reps builds the most muscle. I'd say, but they built muscle on one rep too. They also built muscle on 20 reps. So why would we neglect those rep ranges, especially when that eight to 12 stops working? When it stops working, you have a magic button you can push and it literally is change the rep range.

By the way, novelty, and you touched on this, Adam, when people think confuse the muscles, and I blame this on fitness advertising, right? There was, I don't remember what company it was that sold a fitness program. P90X. That's what it was, like muscle confusion. It was like this big thing that they sold.

And really what it turned into was how many weird exercises can you do? Novelty could be tempo, it could be rest periods, it could be tension points of an exercise, it could be an isometric or a pause in the rep, it could be rep count, it could be set count, it could be how many days a week you work out. It could be rest periods.

I mean, all of those things contribute to, it's not just the weirdest exercise you could do and how many you can do them. It's all those things. So if you're doing a workout right now that consists of four exercises, that's all you ever do, and you're doing six reps of those,

you know what's novel? 10 reps of those exact same exercises now becomes novel. All those things change. You know the biggest problem with those studies that I wish people understood is that if we actually had a study that showed this, okay, for six weeks, this group all did eight to 12. We the last study told us that eight to 12 is best for hypertrophy. Now let's take those people that did eight to 12 for six weeks

consistently. Now let's extend them another six weeks of still staying at eight to 12. And then we'll take another group or a half of that group, and change them to one, or change them to 20 reps, and then compare who did better. And what you'll see is the group that did eight to 12 originally, and then changed, we'll see even more gains than the group that stayed eight to 12 for the entire six week

and six week study, like that's what we're missing with that. Now I'm gonna say this as well, because you'll often hear bodybuilders talk about higher rep ranges, and how they like to train in higher rep ranges and I'll tell you why that is. It's mainly because when you start to get really strong and really big, one of the things that you have to factor in when you're factoring all the different things is risk of injury. So when you're a bodybuilder and if you're training for three reps well now all of a sudden you're squatting with

500 plus pounds or bench pressing with 400 plus pounds it's probably at that point because the risk of injury smarter to go higher rep that's all because if your form is off by three degrees with a 600 pound squat like that could hurt you right with a 300 pound squat you're not you're probably not gonna get hurt so all that's what they have to take into consideration. But if you're the average person, especially if it's like the first three years of your training,

like all those rep ranges are amazing. And those low rep ranges, I'll tell you a secret right now that you guys don't know this. You guys know this, it's not a secret, but for the audience, the first program that we created was Maps Anabolic. The reason why I started Maps Anabolic

with the first phase of Maps Anabolic as a low rep phase is precisely because I know, and I mean low rep range, five reps or less. The reason why I did that is because I know the vast majority of people who would buy this never trained in that rep range. And what I wanted to show them, especially women, because I knew that, I said if I could capture the female consumer this program is gonna crush. And I knew if knew if I could show them in the first phase, crazy gains, they're gonna follow the rest of the program. That's why I put that as phase one.

Because to be honest with you, it doesn't matter. Phase three starts first or whatever. But I started with phase one precisely because I know it would show so many people crazy results because nobody ever trains in that. I think there's another reason too why bodybuilders really lean more towards the high rep range too.

Because they're also in the business of sculpting and how strong they are is irrelevant to how their body looks. And one of the things that can get away from you when you're always pushing strength is targeting a part of the body. When you do a max lift on a deadlift or a squat or a movement, you don't really care if the chest got a little bit more involved in that shoulder press than the shoulder. But when you're bodybuilding, body sculpting, you're separating the body parts, you're looking at an area that you're like, I just want to work this. And it's a lot easier to target an area, control a weight with a lighter weight for more reps

than it is to move something five times, really, really heavy, and then also only hit that. Again, especially if you're really strong, Adam, because even pro bodybuilders will even go substantially lighter with compound basic lifts. And it's because, again, if you're a powerlift, you have to train heavy, because that's what you're gonna do. You're gonna go compete. But you're a pro bodybuilder. I mean, Ronnie Coleman was famous for doing 800 pound squats and he injured himself terribly.

Like when you get really strong, I do this now, and I'm nowhere near as strong as Ronnie Coleman, but I do this now where I often will see if I can make an exercise feel hard with lighter weight. Not because there's no value in going heavy, but because the risk of injury with my form is off a little bit, it's just too high now. It just doesn't make any sense for me to see

if I could go past 500 pounds on a squat or whatever because just the risk versus reward is long-term. If we're using bodybuilders as the great example for this conversation, I mean, Dexter Jackson is the example of the guy injuries Yeah, no injuries and has been training that way for his entire you he went real heavy in his early days. Maybe yeah Maybe I mean he's been this way though for all I mean how how old is Dexter Jackson? Well now he's got his 50 something and he's still like he was think he competes anymore. I think he finally did he finally retire

I mean he just retired not that long ago with like no injuries and one of the one of the most amazing physiques and I know that's like one of his claims the fame is that he's like not the guy who lifts super heavyweight at all No, that's that's the smart the bodybuilders are still trained still look amazing They understood that because 54 years old. I think he retired at 47 or something like that, if I'm not mistaken. Did he? No, wait, I think he was, bro, he was still competing in his 50s. Really?

Oh yes. I know he still looks good. If you look him up now, he still looks incredible. Yeah, let me sell him. And he's on TRT doses now. I know he dropped his 2020. 2020, so four years ago. Wow, so he's 50.

Yeah, he was 50 years old, so he still competed at 50. I missed her Olympia too, Not like I competed, right? There's a lot of guys that are older than 50. There was another bodybuilder. I shared it with you, Doug. And there's no way I can remember his name now. He's in his 60s now. 22-year bodybuilding career.

That's so impressive. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Longevity with that. Five-time Arnold Classic, 2008 Mr. Olympia. Look at that. Holding the record for the most professional wins with 29. I know.

And just smart training. You've got to be smart at some point, you know what I mean? Where you just stop chasing. I mean, it also highlights why I love to use someone like that as an example because again, there's a lot of studies for training to failure, right? People have this. There's a lot of clips going around with our peers talking about the importance of training intensity and pressing that level.

And it's just like, I mean, it's part of my motivation right now with how you see me training is like, I'm really trying to exemplify this example of like, I'm going to build a fucking pretty sick physique right now. And you haven't seen me the highest I squatted the other day, the most I've squatted at 205. It was the heaviest of any weight I've touched. I'm a deadlift today, maybe 185. I mean, you're talking light, lightweight for what I can normally move. And I'm going to show you in a month's time how much of a transformation my physique.

So the answer is not in this pushing to the next level intensity. I feel like those conversations are communicating to these people that have been training for 15 years consistently, hard plateau, and it's like, here's the things to break through these plateaus. The average person that has not been consistent for one year of their life of training in the gym

does not need to utilize some of these tools that are communicated so much. Just to back you up, there's some data that shows that the average sedentary individual, who has a study, they did, I think, one isometric contraction three days a week. And they saw dramatic improvements. Muscle gain from that.

That's pretty crazy. Because they're normally so sedentary. Speaking of you, Adam, you made a comment on the last podcast that was incorrect. I need to correct you. Little fact checking. So he made a comment. I'm gonna fact check him now. Sometimes I need to correct it, I need to correct it. What was, a little fact checking? No, so he made a comment. I'm gonna fact check him now.

I look on, sometimes I look on YouTube comments, which is dumb. Oh dear God, why you do that to yourself? YouTube audience is hilarious, but anyway, you said that Kamala Harris went from being the most unpopular vice president ever, to all of a sudden being popular and whatever. That's not true?

No, she was not the most unpopular president. Really? Vice president ever. She was third most unpopular president. The most- Who beat her out? The most unfavorable VP of all time was Quayle, then Cheney, and then Harris at 58% in September 2023. So

Indeed extremely unpopular. I didn't know that he's voting for Harris though. That's great. That's it. That is not the endorsement Promoting that like Hitler coming out. I support scratching my head on that one. I'm like, I do I can't even watch her clips, dude I can't watch her clips or so. It clips, dude. I can't watch her clips, it's so ridiculous. I can't watch almost any politician. It's cringe. I can't believe you say that. It makes me upset because what's happened is when you watch a debate, what you realize is,

the name of the game is the sound bite. The clip. Yes. So it's really not about the content of the debate. It's not trying to really be intelligent and answer the question. It's about deliver it. How can I wedge in a gotcha sound bite? Cause that's what goes viral. I will.

The fact checking happens later. What I do like that I'm seeing in politics right now, which is very, very little that I like, what I do think is we're in this interesting transition. And the, I do think that the old way, these debates, these televised with the moderators that nobody likes, no one seems to be happy, whatever side you're on with how they do things to these presidential candidates starting to do podcasts, long form, not prepped conversations. Uh, I just saw Ramsey did Trump, uh,

just recently. I know Vivek has gone around and did his whole tour. To me, now we're gonna start getting that more authentic, real conversation that isn't canned, they're aren't prepared with questions, it's not like a layup, it's actual people that are having... and boy, I tell you what, you can't... good luck with how well you prepare for something like that because you're not getting the same setup that you are right now. Unless they capture the podcaster. That's always the question.

Sure. And there's going to be those. I'm sure they're going to have a handful of layup podcasts that they go on that they can do that. But I think if the same candidates are going on like the Rogans, the Ramses, the different people- I mean, that's been a little one--sided. Well it's very one-sided right now. It seems to be Trump is the only one doing that right now. He's the only one doing it. I mean, Kamala was on Oprah. That was about... I saw Kamala do one with Steven Jackson and I forget what's his name, the other basketball

player. So there's two two basketball players that have this podcast. Very much so kind of layup. They were trying to help her, but still it was terrible. Brett Weinstein, I think it was Brett Weinstein, said this. I've agreed with this for a long time. I think what you have is you have these huge, huge mega donors and players, way more influence than we do. There's tons and tons of influence.

And what they do is they create the false illusion of choice. So what they do is they make it so that the candidates on either side they're okay with. It's like hedging their bets. It's like, well, we wanna make sure that this guy on the right is the one that gets, that's the one that could potentially get elected, and then this is the person we want on the left

to potentially get elected. That way, if either one of them wins, we win. Now where's my evidence? My evidence is look how each side destroys candidates that don't fit that narrative. I remember when Bernie Sanders started getting really popular as a Democrat, and I'm not a fan of Bernie Sanders,

but boy did the way that they systematically destroyed him. He snubbed him out. Really crazy, right? And you see this on both sides. I remember on the right that they systematically destroyed him. He snubbed him out. Really crazy, right? And you see this on both sides. I remember on the right did that with Ron Paul. I remember Ron Paul was right, this was a long time ago. And I remember his delegates were on the bus to vote and they prevented the bus from actually getting

to the place to vote. And they were tweeting, like, they won't let us pull over. Like, what's going on? Yeah. Like, oh, you bastards. Well, I mean, Ross Perot just spent all that money just so he could have that moment to shine.

He had to spend a ton of money for that. But yeah, there's never been a real third par here though, dude. This is the October surprise month, right? There's going to be so many terrible surprises. So what's going to happen, bro? You're normally the predictor of this stuff for us. That's why it's called a surprise. I hope it's not World War III.

Oh, God. Don't say that. It's ramping up. a surprise. I hope it's not World War 3. Did you see, speaking of politics, did you see, so Arthur Brooks was on Max Legevier's podcast and he brought up some data. So, Matt, so Arthur Brooks is a, he's a happiness scientist essentially. He studies this. He's a professor on the subject. Makes people happy. What makes them unhappy. Understands human behavior. Is he still teaching at Harvard or is he no longer teaching there? I don't think so, no. But a really smart guy, I love the way he communicates things and Max brought up an article that he had written in the Atlantic and it talked about from a political perspective the most and least happiest people. So the happiest group within that context were conservative women,

followed shortly by conservative men, and then liberal men were the least happy, and then liberal women now, data shows, are the least, least happy. So of those groups, liberal women, I think the data he quoted was six out of 10 of them, six out of 10 liberal women are diagnosed with a mental health disorder

and suffer from depression. If I recall that clip, I saw that clip, it was like only 5% of them even report being happy. I don't remember that one. It was like a crazy low number. I don't remember, but it was really, and there's a lot of speculation around this as to why that might be the case.

Do you guys think it's a, like the cause and effect is one way or the other? You know what I mean? Do they vote that way because they're unhappy? Or is that, are the policies and agendas of that what make them unhappy? Or a reflection of that? Or they, I think there was a big movement

just after our generation, and it became a thing that people would start to say that they want to do for a suggestion? I think there was a big movement just after our generation. And it became a thing that people would start to say that they wanna do for a career and a living. Which, and I forget where I first saw this or read this, and I thought this was really interesting, and I think it actually shines a little bit of light on what you're bringing up right now. And that there's like this movement of,

when I grow up, I wanna be an activist. And man, if you decide that that's going to be your thing, when you don't even know what that thing you're going to be an activist about, it could become a really negative way to view the world, no matter what you're going to be an activist. Especially if that's what you worship. That's what I'm saying.

So if you decide that I'm going to be a pro-animal activist. Well, your focus is all what's wrong. That's right. So your entire lens that you look at the world through is all the bad things we do to animals. And so then you, so I can only imagine how if you, and there's a whole generation of kids that decided that this is what they want to do.

They are all seeking a thing to be an activist about. And when you are that activist, you tend to look through the lens of all the negative things that's happening to whatever cause you're deciding to support. That can be a really blech way to look at society. Oh yeah. Take on a lot of that energy.

And I bet that has a lot to do. One of the keys to depression is to learn about problems you cannot influence. Yeah. Because it feels hopeless and helpless. I, so I have a, I have a different, I have a, I have a theory. Here's my theory. Maybe I'm wrong, but if you look at the extreme sides of each, each of those,

uh, let's say agendas, I don't know, lack of a better term, right? Like things that they promote, right? And you look at that like liberal women's side, and you look at some of the extremes things that they promote, culturally, it's promiscuous sex is liberating, children are oppressive. Burden. And a burden, marriage is oppressive, at least traditional marriage is oppressive,

masculinity is toxic, and I think those things, well I don't think, the data shows the opposite to be true. Promiscuous sex leads to anxiety and depression and lack of purpose. Marriage makes you happier and gives you purpose. Children do the same thing. So I think that may be part of the problem.

I think that part of the problem is either people fall in that category or believe in that so much. And that agenda puts up. If you take what I think and may be part of the problem. I think that part of the problem is either people fall in that category or believe in that so much. And that agenda puts up. If you take what I think and what you think and you combine them, I think it's just a recipe for that. I mean, you take all those things and then, so you're nay on being celibate or having one monogamous relationship or getting married,

you don't want to have kids, and then you decide to be an activist about something in the world. It just sounds like a recipe for a fucking really rough go. Yeah, a lot of angry Karen's. And that masculinity is somehow toxic, traditional masculinity is somehow toxic, which it's not. You need it. The data, by the way, is very clear on this. By the way, this is the popular cultural message to a lot of women. The ones that really bother me the most that I'm really careful with my daughters

is the whole like it's liberating to be, it's liberating to be promiscuous. Okay, that's not liberating. It actually steals from your soul. This is true for men, by the way, as well, but definitely for women. And having children is a burden? What a terrible message.

You know, it's really interesting. If you would communicate to anybody. It's really interesting from... By the way, I wish my, I want my daughters, I hope they they fall in love with and marry a good man with traditional masculinity. Why? Because I want her to be protected, I want her to be cared for, and I want someone to help lead the household. Because that is a burden that the mother who's already got burdened by the tremendous care of her children shouldn't have. She should have somebody take some of that off of her.

So that's what I would hope. You know, Katrina and I have been together for over 13 years now and you know, it's an interesting thing for her and I to discuss now that we have a child together and we've been together for that long. And it was a topic that didn't really get talked a lot about early on in relationships. Definitely not one of those things that like it's like it's starting off on religion politics with any relationship is probably not the best

way to start a conversation. And so she grew up in a matriarch. I mean, Tina runs the whole family from top down. And you even see how every woman is married in that household and after that. And Katrina has a lot of those attributes that come from somebody who's been raised that way. And a lot of things, I think, are beautiful and strong. I mean, I have a very independent, capable, strong,

strong woman. But I think it's taken us till we're 40 something years old. And we've seen all the other girls that are now in our that our nieces that are in their late 20s, early 30s, and seeing the challenges they are having in dating and relationships and coming up in this role. And I think it's only recently in the last few years has Katrina really connected the dots. And some of that too is because Tina's come forward and even said that like, I'm so sorry, what I did. She thought she was doing the right thing.

I don't want my women to, my girls to depend on a man and I want them to be self-sufficient. And I want, and like the, because of and because of what she went through, right? So her goal and was thinking of all the girls that she's going to raise, like they're gonna be these strong women that don't need men, and I think came from a good place in love,

but didn't see the unintended consequences of teaching your girls that, hey, you don't need a man. You don't want, you know, you want to be able to do this and do that on your own and you shouldn't need a man. And I think there's nothing wrong with a woman needing a man and a man needing a woman. I mean, I think- I think that's one of the biggest lies that we teach people is that you don't need anybody. No, we need each other. That's just a fact. It's a shared experience.

We need each other. Yeah, right and left brain It's a shared experience. We need each other. Yeah, right and left brain. I love using that as an example. It's like there's different functions, there's different responsibilities, different ways of perspectives, and it all blends really well together. And that's the thing is it enriches everything if you include somebody into that. And it gives you a much you include somebody into that. And it gives you a much broader perspective that's helpful.

Apply that lie anywhere. Apply in sports. I don't need my teammates. Business, I don't need nobody. Marriage, I don't need my spouse. I don't need my kids. I don't need my friends. I don't need- Just turn into a selfish asshole.

You're dead. You're dead. We need each other. And even if you found a way to get by Functionally, you're so much better with someone totally. I'd say there's there's no doubt in my mind Listen, there was no doubt in my mind that by myself. I was gonna find my way I was going I was not going to be poor and struggle I knew that there's a but there's no way that I'm at where I'm at my life

If I don't have her as my partner, there's no way there's no way I've I reached the level of where I'm at It had I not found a teammate and a partner in life that was going to bring that best version and boy It's really hard to win If you have this attitude of you don't need the other person and it was you know It used to be a thing that Katrina would even say that like I don't need the other person. And it was, you know, it used to be a thing that Katrina would even say that, like, I don't need you, I want you. And that was something that she used to like

really pride herself on saying, and it wasn't until way later in a relationship, she goes, you know what? That's so, so wrong. It's so wrong that I used to say that. I used to, yeah, it is the opposite. She goes, I absolutely need you. And I also want you to feel that I need you.

Like, that idea was so crazy that I thought that that was the right way to live, live my life and go about it. And again, we now see that manifesting in the younger generation that's growing up now that has grown in this matriarch and now really, really struggling to find a partner. And you're talking about beautiful, strong, fit, and you're talking about beautiful, strong, fit, successful women that are having a real hard time finding a mate because of the way they have viewed marriage and partnerships and relationships,

and now they're getting to this place where it's like so crazy that you have this girl who is incredible, has so much going for her, and yet still has a hard time finding a partner, and it's like, well, you know like well You know like we were meant to operate that way scary, right? It's scary to be like. Yeah. I need these people I need this thing. It's scary, but you gotta be vulnerable. You have to really hard You have to you're gonna miss out on everything. Well, you said this other day I don't know if it was on air or not But one of the things you're learning in your your class that you're going through with marriage is that you know, biblically

We we're meant to serve the other person. Like that really flips that all on its head right there. I mean, imagine... You're not supposed to go into it with what are my needs. What can you provide? What can I do for you? And when you look at really happy old couples, it's like they almost like compete for who

can serve the other person better. It's what you tend to find. And when you learn to foster that in your relationship, it's unbelievable what it does. And when you find a good partner that has the same value, it does become a competition. It does become a like trying to level up on each other of like doing things for each other. It's a beautiful place to be if you can find

a partnership like that, because you will absolutely grow together. But you know, you got to also add this part, Adam, is that, you know, like, you know, my parents have been married for 40 plus years, my grandparents before they passed away much longer. You go through seasons where it's you're given, you're given all and they're not able to give you more for whatever reason. And when I say seasons, people are like, oh, what is that, like a couple of months? Sometimes it's a few years, sometimes it's five years. That's exactly right. It's like, okay, part of why this business works like that, okay?

This happens to all of us. There are seasons, there's periods of time when one guy is giving way more than the other guy. It's impossible to have an equal four-way split of distribution, of responsibility and effort towards a business. And if we measured that all the time, it would not be where it's at today. But because we view it like a marriage and understanding that there's this deeper love,

connection, passion for each other, and partnership that we have, it's like, okay, there's gonna be times when Sal's gonna be writing and thinking about a book for four hours in a day that I'm out at the lake or playing with my son that I'm not doing it and I and I don't have to worry that my partner's not going like I can't believe I'm doing this and they're not doing like that that's what makes a partnership successful whether you're talking about a business that you're growing through

this level or you're talking about a marriage and so when you've decided to do life with there's going to be seasons when you carry the burden, when you carry the load. That's what makes a good team. Yeah, don't you wish that it was communicated more often? I think people go into these situations with so many lies and expectations that are false. Yeah.

And by the way, look, everything that we're saying, if you're listening, you're like, that's not what I heard, that's not what the therapist said, that's not what I, okay, do what everybody else tells you, do what the world tells you. You know what, 50% chance you're not gonna make it. That's what what I heard. That's not what the therapist said. That's not what I, okay, do what everybody else tells you. Do what the world tells you. You know what? 50% chance you're not gonna make it. That's what the data shows.

So how about try this other thing that seems to work. It seems to work. This is how it's been done for thousands of years. There's also the wrong attitude about serving. There's this idea that like, again, oh, I'm gonna go do these things so I get something. That's not the same.

You have to serve in an unconditional way that you learn to want to do that. It's called sacrificial expectations. And if you don't wanna do that, then maybe you're with the wrong person. If you haven't found someone who- Or maybe you're the wrong person. Or yeah, whatever.

You have to find that person or be that person that wants to serve those people in order, or serve that partner in order to have those people in order, or serve that partner in order to have that successful marriage. And it's just, I don't know, I think that, I unfortunately, I think it's been communicated so poorly to our society, especially this generation coming up right now.

And I think that's a reason why we see loneliness, depression, all these things on the rise. Yet we have more, we have more access, we have more things, we have loneliness, depression, all these things on the rise. Yet we have more. We have more access, we have more things, we have more of everything, yet we are more depressed, we are more lonely, we have less friends. Like what the fuck does it, does that tell you we're heading down the right path? Or does that make you go hmm maybe we should reevaluate the way we've been raising some of these kids and telling them how they should think. Like it's so crazy to me that we don't question that.

All right, I'm gonna take a left here. I'm gonna mention these Better Biome gummies from Organifi. So we're getting messages from people who've been using these. It's an unassuming product from them designed to improve your gut microbiome. You eat it before you eat. Anyway, we're getting messages from people who are like,

this helped my bloating and my digestion and my inflammation. I think I asked you this last time and if I did, I apologize that I forgot already. Explain to me the difference between a prebiotic and a probiotic. Probiotic is the bacteria. Prebiotic is what feeds good bacteria.

Okay. So you are priming your gut, so if you eat these before you eat, you prime your gut for better gut health when you eat your meal. It is not adding bacteriaing your gut, so if you eat these, before you eat, you prime your gut for better gut health when you eat your meal. It is not adding bacteria to your gut. It is not a probiotic. It is- So can you give me an example of where one

is better than the other or how I use it? I think you would use both. You would use both? Yes, you would. In fact, I would do something like take this before I take a probiotic just to add some fuel or some food to the beneficial bacteria, that might be a good combination.

In fact, some probiotics add a prebiotic fiber like our other partner seed. But this would be a good combination, definitely. But this is something anybody can take. Whereas with probiotics, some people are sensitive to them or not, this is something most people can take or use. And then speaking of food, did you guys hear that,

let me see, I know Fruit Loops, but I think there's some other products have been banned in California. I heard a rumor about that. But okay, so this is another policy that's, I'm confused, like that's the direction we're going? Every once in a while, like a broken clock, California is right.

They've banned Fruit Lo loop cereal and hot Cheetos and other processed food snacks because there's data and people in the wellness space have been saying- Is this over the red dye or? Yeah exactly. So people in the wellness space have known this for a long time and parents with sensitive children have known this for a long time. Blue, green, yellow, and red additives, certain kinds of dyes have been found to contribute to things like ADHD. And some people talk about worsening autism symptoms for other kids. But ADHD is the one that most parents are like.

So we actually banned fruit loops, huh? In California. Interesting. Now here's the deal, we're just gonna get the fruit loops that you get in Europe, because they don't use all those. Those dyes, by the way, huh? In California. Interesting. Now here's the deal, we're just gonna get the Fruit Loops that you get in Europe, because they don't use all those, those dyes, by the way, have already been banned. They've been banned in Europe for a long time.

If you look at the ingredients of Fruit Loops, or Cheetos, or Doritos in Europe, versus the ones here, the dyes and preservatives are different. It's interesting, so it's interesting to me, what motivates a company that sees the writing on the wall because already another country has banned these things and they've basically said, hey, we think this is toxic,

we think this isn't good, therefore you can't do this. And then we reformulate for that. Why do we not just go, you know what, this is probably the direction everyone's going. Like it doesn't take, like it's not rocket science. It seems to be problematic. Maybe we should adjust things Yeah, is it just because they have like all this inventory and stock that they just like we got their supply chain So I the cost and people like too much to people like them if I gave you a ball

I think it's more insidious. I it maybe I think there's more like addictive properties to the dies and things well, I was just gonna say if I if I put a bowl of American Froot Loops in front of you and a bowl of, you know, German Froot Loops or whatever in front of you. The color's different, dude. One of them looks more vibrant and one of them tastes a little sweet. So that's my theory. My theory is more insidious. It's more, we know we have the data to show that people are more addicted to the California Froot Loops than they are the European ones.

So we're gonna ride that train until we can't anymore and then we'll change. Because to me, it makes just market sense. Listen, the market is moving in this direction. Nobody who runs these massive companies isn't aware of we're more health conscious, we're moving in that direction. So then, and you've already had to pivot for one thing.

So you can start to mold your supply chains to look like that. So that doesn't make sense to me. The only thing that makes sense to me is like, we actually know that it's more profitable. Benefit there. Yes, there's a benefit there for us to keep feeding this bullshit that we know is unhealthy, but we know it's more addictive, better sales. Well, did you guys see the US district court ruling that they actually acknowledged the fact that it was problematic with the fluoride in the water for kids IQ. No, no, no. This is like groundbreaking. They ruled that fluoride in water lowers IQ.

Yeah, which we've known. No, no, no. We haven't known. Conspiracy theory. Yeah, that's a conspiracy thing forever. Forever! Sure. Okay, we haven't, but it's been speculated upon. Bro, the last five years has to be, like this must be the decade of conspiracy theorists We know we're at a point winning by the way

I don't know who's gonna do this first, but some there's a book ready for somebody this like everything that was Checklist like check this one. There's a whole book now fruition this one came to fruition boom boom boom boom diddy boom fruition this one came to fruition boom boom boom boom boom diddy boom oh yeah go to your dentist they still want to give your kid fluoride they still want to use fluoride toothpaste and I've been avoiding those for a long time because I you know I'm in the health space yeah look at that yeah by the way have you guys ever noticed have you guys noticed any differences with dyes have you played with them to see how your kids react at all I'm kind of past the you know the that kind of I mean you guys have been staying. I'm kind of past that kind of stuff.

I mean you guys avoid processed foods. So we noticed something with our kids. And it wasn't because of processed foods, because we rarely, I don't think we ever buy, no we never buy foods that are processed like this, never. If they ever had it, it would probably be like a birthday party or something. But then at a birthday party it's hard to decipher,

is it the sugar, is it the crazy eye, right? But no, we saw this with our kids when they were sick because we gave them Tylenol that had red dye in it. So we gave them Tylenol so they get a fever and it's hard for them to sleep. And so typically if you bring the fever down a little bit they'll sleep better. And we gave it to our kids and they were,

my daughter was hyper for three hours Bouncing off the wall acting silly and goofy and I'm like what is going on with her and I thought it was the Tylenol first And then it dawned on me. I'm like, let's try the dye free Tylenol. Sure enough. Totally fine I didn't even know they had red dye in time. I didn't either. So they have the children's one that's like, you know, it's like flavored Yeah, you can get it dye free or you can get the's like, you know, it's like flavored. Yeah, you can get it die-free or you can get the traditional one You know, it's funny like Ethan has been obsessed over this whole like red dye thing I think there's been like a big movement and in two they watch videos like some like some of these like YouTube shorts where they They kind of expose some things like the little the mites and things when they when they zoom in

You know like he gets really in and so like red dye, he kept like stressing this to me. He's like, dad, it's like so bad for you. I'm like, ah, really? And he's like, look into that, you know? Like I just thought it was another like TikTok thing. Yeah, the other part of it too that I hate, and this is gonna be sad to say,

but I think the reason why they also got away with this for so long is it's hot Cheetos and Froot Loops. So like if you're feeding your kids this stuff all the time, you might not be paying attention. No, those are not good nutritionists. You know what I'm saying? You're probably not paying attention to die. If you're not paying attention to the fact like you could give my kid hot Cheetos with natural, you know coloring. I'm not gonna let them eat it either. Yeah, right. Yes. Hot Cheetos with natural, you know coloring I'm not gonna let them eat it either Yes, so, you know, I think that's and it makes me sad because that's a category people are already getting messed with so I wonder top of the through associate on top. Yeah

I wonder if does that even help or solve anything right so that to your point right there like the same parents that allow the Kids to eat that like it's probably not even the top like you're probably we're probably more concerned about child child diabetes than we are for yeah the red dye that's in there because it's like if they're eating that type of stuff and they're a kid God knows what the rest of their diet by the way this was a movement that was pushed by schools because the schools were or the parents and the teachers were like these kids coming from lunch eating this stuff and they act crazy and they're noticing a difference when they take it out that's interesting that they connected to that like that.

That's wild. I know, but there's studies on it. Mark Bell had this guy on, I don't know his name, but he was talking about, like if one of the parents was obese, it was a 20% chance of their kid having autism. And then also diabetes, another 20% chance, and then you combine them together, and that's like 40% chance. You guys wanna hear?

That high? Yeah, do you wanna hear a crazy? I wasn't aware of that. I learned about a crazy ass study, and it's real, you can look it up, recently about a cohort of children, the only group of children we've seen recently have a dramatic decline in autism. You guys hear about the story? So autism rates in pretty much every group

has been going up and there's people that are like it's this, it's that, the other, but nonetheless it's grown quite a bit. I mean over the last 40 or 50 years it's grown, I don't know how many thousands of percent to the point where it was so rare in the past that doctors could go their whole careers without seeing a kid with autism. Now it's like super prevalent, right? There was a study done on Marin County, wealthy white and Asian children.

And it was the first time they saw today, and like today's time, a substantial drop in autism rates. Do you know what else those parents were doing? Remember, these are crunchy, hippie, wellness-y, wealthy, not vaccinating their kids. Yeah. Oh God. Oh, that's gonna blow.

Yeah, this is one that Robert Kennedy has been bringing up and I'm like, is this real? I looked it up, yeah. So one of the few studies that actually showed a group of kids reduce their rates of autism. Now, is it positive? I wonder if the reception to that information has gotten any less like, you know,

because before that, you say something like that and it's like ah, there's a lot of pushback on that. Part of the reason I think there's pushback, I'm not saying it's causative, by the way, so the study didn't say it caused autism, it's just one of the factors that was different. There's a correlation. There's a correlation. There's a correlation, and because there's so many people

who've been raising the alarm on this, Robert Kennedy being one of them, saying something with the vaccines is connected to autism that makes my ears kind of perk up. But part of the reason why, besides, you know, we go big pharma and they're lobbyists and their connection to the government, all that stuff, besides all that, I saw this during COVID.

When you're a parent and you make your kid do something, like wear a mask all day long at school, and then other parents come and bring you data and say, hey, that's not good for your kids. It's not gonna help them with their speech. You're in cognitive dissonance because you don't wanna think of yourself as someone that would hurt your kid.

Yeah, yeah, because you're not doing it for that intent. You're not. Yeah, you're like, oh my God, I didn't wanna hit my kid. So now you're defending it with any defending without. That's the vaccine argument. Same thing. It's like parents are, how dare you say that I'm trying to harm my kid.

That's what they interpret that as. So nobody wants to hear that. No, no, no. Anyway, speaking of brands and stuff like that, Adam, you were bringing up Plunge and talking about their brilliant. Oh, man. So Katrina and I are on our calls for next year, right? So this is

the time of the year where we start to lock in contracts for next year for partners and stuff like that. And I had just told her recently that I said, hey, when you talk to Plunge, I want to talk to them because I'm just, I get really interested in our partners that I see doing really, really cool stuff. I've shared different things that our partners are doing. But there's no doubt in my mind that Plunge will be the most dominant cold plunge in the industry by far. Whoever they hired on their marketing team

are just doing really cool, brilliant stuff. One of the things was, you saw that they partnered with one of our old partners, Liquid Death. So they did a thing to, they did this collab where they basically made the plunge look like a Liquid Death thing. Can. Yep, a can, and so that was really brilliant.

They just did the thing with Diplo Runs, who's a famous DJ that gets all these people together and do these massive runs and they partnered, they did a collab with him. So he comes out, he does the whole run with them. He cold plunges afterwards and he puts on a concert. And so these are going like mainstream crazy wild. So it's so smart because it's bringing, it's introducing people that like typically say 15 years ago or more marathon runners were, you know, if you ran a 5k, 10k or a marathon, you're a hardcore runner. You know, it's more of a competitive sport for you where it's become more of like, and we saw the introduction of things like Muddy Buddy and Spartan Race.

It's now a social thing. Yeah, it's becoming more of a social funding. I'm not like, yeah, I'm not like worried about my time being shaved by two minutes. I'm there. It's a healthy, good, positive thing that other like-minded people can do. And people like Diplo, Plunge have tapped into this from a marketing perspective. I think it's so brilliant. And what it's doing is it's bringing and introducing a whole bunch of people that may not have met or seen these brands. And Plunge is just absolutely crushing it. And they're also, I don't know the last time you guys looked, but their line has grown extensively too. Oh yeah, they had like the Cadillac versions and they had the ones that you could fill up yourself. Which was brilliant because when they first launched they had just a real high end, like it was, it kind of like filtered. They give you a lot of options. Yeah, you kind of looked at it like, Jesus man, if I'm not sorry, my god, some good money, I don't know if I can afford this, you know seven thousand dollar plunge, but now they've got stuff for super reasonable So if you're like I want the benefits of that, but then I but I can't afford a seven thousand dollar

You know Cadillac's plunge. They've got that so they have kind of like every level and stage and so now they've been they've been fun to Watch you guys you guys when you guys are training people. Did you guys ever train? I know you guys train marathon runners but did you ever go to a marathon to support any of the runs or anything like that you've been to one I'm not sure that actually went to the event but I've had you know a few clients that do that and the triathlon so yeah yeah yeah I mean I I guess I was there at the end I didn't watch it so I showed up I had one of the most profound experiences at a mayor

I you know, I never ran I'm not a marathon runner as running was never my thing but I trained a young woman for a marathon and it was a I Believe it was a breast cancer awareness one I believe there it was for it was for a charity and she wasn't like this hardcore runner But she wanted to do it because someone she knew had battled breast cancer. So I trained her and then she wanted me there, so I went there. And it was one of the most incredible things I'd ever been to in my entire life. The vibe and the energy, I think it was because it was for a charity. You had so many people

there who had been... It's like an emotional release. Dude they had been touched by cancer affected. I remember I'll never forget this gets me emotional thinking about as I'm watching the race this you know and my client ran through and she won and we were congratulated and I didn't want to hang out longer so so like remember this woman I mean it was like she definitely wasn't a runner but she was pushing herself and she's coming at the end, and she's dragging her feet, and on her shirt,

she's got a picture of a young woman who must have been a friend of hers who died from cancer. It's like, this is for you. And she was just crying and pushing, and everybody's crying, and I'm like, what the, this is the most amazing thing I've ever seen. And that was, I mean, just for me, it's like I had a new respect for some of these

types of events. I know, I think you guys have to look at the, I don't know if Doug can pull up a picture, an example of the Diplo runs, but it's pretty cool to see, I'm so creative, I always love when I see a brand think of something, I'm like, God, why didn't I think of that? Or why wouldn't, like, what a clever. Isn't this just like a trend right now

where there's running clubs, but they're really, they're for single people, and they meet other people. Yeah, that's a good people. So that was a stat that our friend Chris Williamson brought up with, I forget who he was interviewing, I think it's a great way to meet. And he made that he made that as a I don't know if it was him or his guess I can't remember who said that many people use that as a way of dating because you're you're you're gonna find people you have stuff in common with You have this like kind of informal way because you're doing some yeah

Yeah, we're not here to date or meet each other. We're here for the run club But it's like you're you're there also to put it. Oh, so here's the the dip will run. Oh cool I wonder do they have a lifting club for people to meet other people? I feel like that would be a great way to meet I mean it makes I tell you what it makes my Wheel spin, you know, these aren't like the whole concert great pictures. Not the people. I mean, I tell you what, it makes my wheel spin. These aren't like the whole concert, great pictures, not the best one. Yeah, it was like a lot of fun.

Did you guys ever do the, what was that run in San Francisco where you run and then you go to different bars? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah I do. There's a run in San Francisco that they do that is at every marker there's a cooler of alcohol. I think that's the one I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, they do.

It's a good one. Troy's a naked guy. I had a good friend of mine that used to meet up and do those. They're all like that though, as far as, that's kind of what I'm talking about, those type of runs where people are using those to meet people and stuff.

I think that's really fascinating. I think that's really cool. I got one study to talk about real quick here, Torzina. I thought it was a really cool study. They did a study on strength gains in the elderly and they found that 85 plus, so 85 year olds, even people in their 90s, can build muscle just as fast as people who are 65 to 75.

So they build muscle just as fast. Now, I think the potential is different. And I can build as much muscle later, but the rate at which you build muscle when you're 85 is like it was when you were 65 or 70 years old. And I've seen this. You never do that. I'm not a fan of these studies that talk about age.

I just think that if you take a group of people and you're not controlling much variables other than these people are this age, it does not tell the story about what strength training and diet can potentially do. Experience and lifestyle. It's so irrelevant. I can't tell you how many people I've trained late in their life, 60, 70, even as high as 80 and have said to me, Adam, I'm in the best shape of my life at this age. So it doesn't, like, the reason why we have things that say

it gets more difficult as you age, because on average, people's hormone levels go down, their ability, like, all these factors that play a role in your ability to build muscle, burn body fat, start happening as we age, but muscle, burn body fat, start happening as we age. But a lot of those things that start happening as we age because we don't take care of and do things.

There's a big part of that. The epigenetic factors all stack up. Yeah, it has way less to do with age than it does. Well speaking of strength, because it's really strength that you want, especially as you get older. This study on strength and its predictor of all-cause mortality, and they use grip strength because that's just a proxy for overall body strength. Nothing specific about the grip. If you're strong grip, you're probably stronger everywhere else.

And what they found was the weakest quarter of individuals. So when they look at the groups of strongest, next strongest, next strongest, and then the weakest. The weakest quartile of individuals were more than twice as likely to die in the next 10 years. 10 years. Wow. So I think at some point they're gonna use, cause the data on this is just too strong.

I think at some point insurance companies are going to use a grip strength test. I think they're gonna bring a dynamometer or whatever. You'd be silly not to. Yeah. I mean, cause you'd be way more, if you know that stat. You know, good blood markers, everything else looks good, here, squeeze this. Yeah. I mean, if you I mean, because you'd be way more like if you know that stat, you know, good blood markers,

everything else looks good here squeezes. Yeah. Yeah. So you break a hip. It's a good sentence. Yeah. No, seriously. I think that's I think that's I think for sure. Shout out today. I got one. I shared it with Darren. Darren is the one who writes our newsletter. If you guys don't subscribe to our newsletter, he is incredible. He's hilarious, he's smart. Absolutely love the way he writes.

And I shared with him to give him topic ideas, this guy I just found on Instagram. And I love finding people like this that are still small, relatively small, and then giving them love. So let's see if we can build this guy's page up. So his name's Jake Hayen, and that's his actual Instagram handle, all one. So Jake, then H-E-Y-E-N,

all one word. And he does all fitness news. So it's like literally what's happening in fitness this week. So like the topics I actually had to bring out today, which I didn't bring up, came from his page. Like he's constantly posting updates on like what's happening. So if you like, and that's everything from like gyms to brands to collaborations to gym chains, like you name it, like he drops like fitness news constantly. So pretty cool Instagram page to follow. Elemented is an electrolyte powder. It's high in sodium. It's high enough in sodium. In fact, most electrolyte powers don't have enough. That is not artificially flavored. There's no artificial sweeteners, there's also no sugar, it just tastes real good and it

gives you the electrolytes you need for better workouts, for better sleep, better pumps, especially if you're on a ketogenic diet or you don't eat a diet that's high in heavily processed foods, this can be a game-changer. Anyway, go to the link, go to drinkl drink LMNT calm for slash mind pump You'll get a free sample pack on that link with any drink mix purchase. All right back to the show Our first caller is Brandon from Hawaii Brandon. What's up, man? What's up, buddy? Hey, how's it going guys? Thanks so much for having me and answering my question First off wanted to start off by saying I'm a huge fan.

I've been listening probably for about four or five months now. Super thankful for the content you guys put out regarding health and fitness and also just your experiences into fatherhood. I'm 27 years old, 511 weighing in currently at about 263. I played a lot of sports growing up as a kid, was always into weightlifting. I'm from Monterey, California, originally, and started going to Monterey Sports Center lift to lift weights when I was about 12. I've been through all the diets, vegan keto in a minute fasting. I've always been kind of fit kind of fat my whole life and struggled to lose weight. Being taught young age basically

my whole life to work hard in and out of the gym, always strive to be the hardest worker in the room. Growing up, I've always wanted to, I was always told to eat low fat diets and that eating a lot of red meat and stuff was bad for you. As many were told I've gained and lost over 80 pounds twice in my life from running lots of weightlifting or shrinking calories. After the second time I gained all the way back, I hired a personal trainer. I was intrigued by the trainer because the first time I met him, he actually fixed some shoulder pain I was having during a bench from a priming movement he taught me. And after meeting with him,

about two months later, you know, I realized it wasn't really what I was getting out of what I wanted to get out of the trainer, which was just proper form and getting back into strength training side of things. I'm trying to learn a squat, but my trainer was constantly making me run due to Bada style workouts, which were not really fun at all for me. I've done a lot of exercise like this throughout my life and just knew this wasn't the route I really wanted to go down again. And he restricted me to 1500 calories, told me not to eat more than 50 grams of fat a day. So luckily, my coworker, shout out to Joseph showed me this podcast the same week I was going through this trainer experience. And after a week of listening to you guys, I heard Sal say I didn't have to hate my workouts and drop the trainer and stopped running and

didn't do a lot of low rep work growing up. And I always kind of stayed in the eight to 12 range. But the lower up phases and anabolic one are currently my favorite. Now that I've headed down this path with you guys, I was tracking my macros fairly consistently when I sent this question in and did a reverse diet, notice sizable gains in the gym got my strength back where it was before the crash diets after running anabolic about four or five times now. I noticed my energy and overall feeling just felt really good when

I was eating a higher fat diet. My carbs weren't as high on a regular basis when I was tracking regular. Um, some days I had more carbs than others, but noticed that I consistently and naturally just ate higher fat diet. I still have a lot of fat. I would like to lose probably like 50, 40 pounds. If I were to guess, I'd say I'm low, uh, 20 low, 30% body fat. It's easier for me to eat a higher fat diet. And I know it's important for consistency that I enjoy what I'm doing,

but eating a higher fat intake mess with my overall effectiveness of cut. I still have everything I've kind of been told in the back of my mind growing up and it almost feels wrong to be doing what I'm doing. Sometimes I'll get home from the gym, I'll sit down, eat a New York steak with six eggs in the back of my mind. I'm kind of doubting myself and what I'm doing and seeing if it's actually okay. So currently, sometimes I'll be eating anywhere between 140 to 250 grams of fat, 200 to 250 grams of protein, and 120 to 180 grams of carbs to about 3200 calories ish being my maintenance. 90% of my diet being whole foods and adding

or averaging about 10 to 12,000 steps a day. Right now, I've stopped tracking to try to do it on my own. Mainly focus on protein, whole foods. Like you guys say, getting slightly stronger each week. But my weight has been fluctuating really from 263 to 267 for about two to three weeks now. I only go on a scale like once a week, but I feel like I'm stalling out with fat loss ever since I stopped tracking.

I'm not sure if this is due to my high fat intake or if it's just because I've stopped tracking and probably eating more around my maintenance, my automatically naturally. I'm also wondering if I focus more on low rep heavy weight rate, excuse me, low rep heavy weight training while actually well eating this way, well, if it's good to good approach for my fat loss goals. Brandon, you are killing it. You're doing a good job. You understand that you went from eating 1500 calories to body style type of workouts to eating 3000 calories,

getting stronger, building muscle, and it sounds like your weight's kinda hovering the same. You're not really gaining, you're not really losing, you're kinda, bro, you are more than winning right now. There's a lot here. First off, your trainer was terrible, so you did a great job getting rid of him. That was the absolute wrong approach.

Worst advice ever. Worst. The question around fat and fat gain, or thest. The question around fat and fat gain, or the macronutrient fat and fat gain, you gain body fat when you eat more calories and you burn. Okay, that's it. So you can gain body fat from any macronutrient. Now, it gets a little bit more granular when you kind of boil it down to the thermic effect

of each macronutrient. So protein being the least likely to cause fat gain, mainly because the utilization of protein burns more calories than the utilization of fats or carbohydrates. But you know, we're kind of splitting hairs there. You're eating a high protein diet. It doesn't matter if your fat is high or if your carbs are low. In fact, you can go zero carbs and that's okay. Although for most people, it's better to have a little bit of carbs. If you want to get leaner, you're just going to have to cut your calories a bit. Your strength training is great.

The only advice I'll give you with strength training is because you've run MAPS anabolic four or five times in a row, we probably want to interrupt it with something that's going to train you. Yeah. Unilaterally or, or, or with lateral and rotational movements, because MAPS anabolic is so, uh, focused in one plane of movement. And so I'd be afraid that you might get an injury at some point so maps performance or map symmetry would be a great workout for you to follow there's nothing wrong with low-whip training except your body will plateau

if you stay there for too long now you can stay there for six weeks seven weeks but you're gonna want to move out for a few weeks just to keep yourself from plateauing but otherwise I, strength train gets stronger. Whole food diet, that's what you're doing. You're eating high protein, that's perfect. You're just, you're probably eating at maintenance, although it's only been a couple weeks. So I wouldn't judge it after a couple weeks. I'd wait another two weeks to see what's going on. If after two weeks you see yourself getting leaner, then stay the course.

If it's still kind of plateauing and you still want to see some, you want to see a little more fat loss, I would track a little bit and then cut your calories by three to 400 or so, and then just stay right there. You're, it's worth it where you're at, the point you're at right now to go get your body fat tested because I think you're in a really good place. Yeah, because you could be getting leaner

and building muscle. Yeah, so I would go get your body fat tested. So we have kind of a, like a baseline of where you're currently at, at the calorie intake, how you're currently doing. And then what Sal kind of said, I'd probably pull back 500 calories. I'd only do that though for about three to four weeks and then go test again to see if that's serving you. Because I actually think where you're at is you're kind of in this sweet spot of eating 3000 calories, you're probably building muscle and losing body fat. Are you by chance following the docu-series I'm doing right now on YouTube?

I haven't been yet. Bro, watch that because a lot of what you're talking about right now and what I'm doing, I'm trying to stay the same weight yet lose body fat and build muscle, what we call the Goldilocks zone. And psychologically, it's hard. It's difficult because you don't see the scale really moving. You're putting this work in. You're making all these good food choices.

But yet, you know, but I've seen the things that matter, that matter that you've said already is, I see strength going up, you know? My weight's not fluctuating way high. Like I feel good. Like the way I'm eating, my energy, like all those things are all very positive indicators that you're probably in a really good place right now and you know maybe I would let you cut for 500 calories

for a couple weeks just to see but I think you're at a really good place. Sweet. Thank you guys. Yeah, the only problem I've had recently with like cutting was well I'm I don't like being hungry so that's that's a big problem for me cutting is I mean I'm, I don't like being hungry. So, um, that's, that's a big problem for me. Cutting is, I mean, I'm always hungry. So I'm trying to just be comfortable and just be enjoy what I'm doing so I can kind of do this for longer. I mean, I've done this before and I know that the running and all that, it didn't last very long.

So, yeah, thank you guys. I Brian, I got, you know, just one comment on that. It didn't last very long. So yeah, thank you guys. I appreciate that. Brian, I got just one comment on that. Okay. Now there's a difference between being starving and hungry all the time and having hunger or having some hunger when you're in a calorie deficit. It's like feeling sad or tired or unmotivated. Like these are all natural feelings. And if you run from natural feelings, you're gonna be in trouble. If you're so afraid of hunger, or it bothers you so much that you never wanna feel hunger,

you're gonna be screwed, okay? So you're gonna feel that sometimes. That's a normal, natural feeling. So my advice to you is get comfortable with the occasional feeling of hunger when you're in a calorie deficit. And how do we do that? We sit with it.

We sit with it. We sit, I feel hungry. Don't deny it. Don't run from it. I'm hungry. I'm burning body fat. This is what it feels like and you're going to be okay. Now again, this is different than starving yourself, but if you're afraid of hunger, and this is what happens. The world has taught us to be so afraid of hunger that we sell diets that way. Never feel hungry again and lose faith. Never feel as if it's not a natural feeling. It exists for a reason. You're supposed to feel hungry sometimes

and that's totally okay. So get comfortable with that feeling. Otherwise you're gonna struggle. It's always gonna be a struggle for you. To that point, have you ever attempted or done like a 24 hour fast? No, I was just thinking on the back of my head because I've watched so many episodes,

but I was like, yeah, maybe I should try fast. I mean, I've done intermittent fasting and I've done like 20 hour fasts like on the regular before, but it's been a long time. So maybe I should try to incorporate that just so I can feel those feelings again. Yeah, just for the psychological benefits of that for sure. Not for the fat loss, just to feel the hunger and sit with it. That's the only reason I bring that up. I like that.

I like the idea of doing that every once in a while. I don't want this to become a regular thing. This is not your diet. Yeah, it's not a diet. It's like, hey, you know what? I should get currently. One of the things I used to tell my clients to help them with that feeling is, man, that's actually a really good feeling.

That is your body switching energy systems. So when you're filled up with all kinds of carbs and food and calories, your body is running off that those calories and then all of a sudden when the body realizes oh wow we don't have as extra of those calories it switches over for fat as fuel. So that feeling is what you're feeling. That feeling of oh I, I'm starting to get a little hungry. It's like, oh, my body just switched over. It's no longer utilizing the carbohydrates and calories I had. Now it's switching over to body fat to propel me through the next couple hours. And so use that as motivation of like, okay, this is a good thing. I'm sitting on the couch right now and my body's burning body fat. That's a good place to be. I like Justin's

suggestion of an occasional fast too. Again, it's not because of the don't use it as a diet because then you'll be doing it wrong and it's not gonna serve you. But hunger, there's different ways that we perceive hunger. One of them is we enjoy the feeling of eating so much that not eating to us may feel like hunger. Then there's also cravings. Cravings are not hunger. And then there's real hunger, which a fast will show you. You don't eat for a day or two, you'll start to feel cravings, you'll feel bored, I wanna eat, and then you'll feel real hunger.

And it's a different feeling, and it can be, if you use it properly, you can start to differentiate them. Because sometimes what people feel is hunger is not hunger, it's just expectation, like, oh, it's noon, I'm hungry. Well, maybe you just expect to eat at noon, right? Or, oh, I wanna eat something, well, maybe it's just because you're stressed or maybe you just

enjoy the feeling of eating so much that you just want to you want to feel that again so the fast in that context can be helpful. I do want you to know though bro you're doing a really good job. Yeah you're right. To be able to go from Tabata style workouts and 1,500 calories to 3,000 calories a day and not be putting on body fat every minute. That's a huge win. That's a huge win. I mean what you're doing metabolically right now is incredible and so and you probably could just kind of hang out here for a very long and you'll just slowly lean out. I mean it's a and you won't feel like you're cutting really hard you won't you know

I'm saying you're not really pushing the body you're just letting it do its thing. If you're making if you're good at making good choices when you get hungry you eat I'm saying you're not really pushing the body You're just letting it do its thing if you're making if you're good at making Good choices when you get hungry you eat whole foods and you eat protein first You're gonna be in your strength training You're gonna be okay And I think the best thing we can do right now is the original advice that we started this call is Put you over into performance. So do you have mass performance yet? No, not yet. I'll have Doug send that over to you. So Doug will send performance over to you. Thank you so much.

One more thing I want Doug to give you is I want to put you in the private forum. So I want to give you access to the private forum. And then if you decide to do either one, whether you decide to throw the fast in every once in a while, love feedback on what you feel, what you notice, how you're hearing. Or if you decide you're going to cut 500 calories from the diet and see how you feel, what you notice, how you're hearing. Or if you decide you're going to cut, you know, 500 calories from the diet and see how you feel, check in with us. Just let us know and we'll help you guide you through this process.

Okay. Sweet. Yeah. Thank you guys so much. Um, you guys have completely changed my whole fitness journey and I've feel like I've been doing this for a while and I feel like I learned a lot when I was a kid. But, um, you guys have taught me more than I have in the last like 10 years.

So thank you guys so much. You guys have really changed my life. I appreciate it so much. Thank you guys. Thanks Brandon. Good luck man. Take care guys. Good work.

You know I'm glad we had that part of the conversation about I don't like to feel hungry. I mean if you extend that out to other feelings, I don't like to feel hungry. I mean, if you extend that out to other feelings, I don't like to feel sad or bored or other, what you could be classified as negative feelings, this is what pushes people to do things that are not great for them. Never wanting to feel bad can turn into drug addiction or avoidance. Never wanting to feel hunger turns into obesity and a poor relationship or an addiction to food. And again, I want to differentiate between like actual like start important signals. Yeah

Yeah, so and if you go to deficit if your body is going to turn up Its hunger signal because your body doesn't want to it doesn't want to tap into its stored energy Just like when you're working you don't want to tap into your savings like oh, honey. We're tapping our savings That's not necessarily a good thing your fat storage is your body's energy savings you're working, you don't want to tap into your savings. Like, oh, honey, we're tapping into our savings. That's not necessarily a good thing. Your fat storage is your body's energy savings. Once it starts to tap into that, it's going to ramp up to a certain degree.

Hunger signals, because it wants to keep that. It wants to keep that insurance. So it's a normal feeling. One of my favorite things to do with a client that has reached this place, because he's in a really good place, just to show them, like, hey, we're in the right place. We're doing the right things, is next weeks I'm gonna cut you a thousand calories go down I'm gonna put you down at two thousand something calories real low just for two weeks

watch what happen watch his body start to drop in that and then go okay now that was just for me to show you yeah what we've done we've moved your metabolism up so good that you could eat 500 more calories than what you were doing with all that Tabata bullshit and you're actually leaning out so like So let's go back to that. Let's keep building. Let's keep building that metabolism. And one more comment on that. If you have a trainer, and if your specific goal is lots of athletic endurance and stamina, then these kind of workouts are okay. If that's not your goal, and your trainer is beating the crap out of you with Tabata, circuits, boot camp, fire them immediately. send them this video, say Sal said to fire you and go find someone else

because they're a shitty trainer. Boom. Our next caller is Jenny from New Hampshire. Hi Jenny. Hi Jenny, how are you? I cannot believe I'm talking to you guys right now, this is crazy, I'm great. Thank you.

Oh my God, I've been following you guys since 2015. I know, right? Like almost 10 years since the early days. Definitely our people. Definitely our people. If you stuck with us that long. Yeah, we love you. That's right. That's right. So I was competing in MPC back then and following your success. So I credit a lot of my personal success and health to you guys. So thank you. Um, it's a really a privilege to meet you and chat with you personally. Um, so I'll preface my question too, um, with one change since I wrote it in,

which is now that I'm five months pregnant, so I'm through. All right. Thank you. Yeah. Um, so I don't know that this will change the answer very much so much as enhance it or actually make it easier. But, um, I reached out because I'm someone who enjoys a lot of different activities, like hiking, skiing, golfing, obviously lifting, taekwondo,

um, cycling, just to name a few. Um, but I also like to be very competent and proficient at those things because it's a lot less fun when you suck. So among those, my top two favorites are the things that I spend my most time doing is probably Taekwondo and skiing. Taekwondo being all year round and skiing obviously being seasonal.

My overarching goal and even more so now in pregnancy is building my muscle back up. So I have a great foundation from a few years of bodybuilding training, running programs sporadically over the last eight years or so since I stopped competing, but it's definitely been a few since I've lifted consistently and I really miss feeling strong. Other lifestyle factors that play a role are traveling for work periodically, I have a tendency to over commit socially, husband doesn't like that. And I have

two big active dogs. And now we're growing our family. So I'm always running against the clock, sleep, nutrition, stress management, hormone health, all those things, I think are in really great balance. So in summary, my challenge is finding a regimen that works for me with limited time, trying to maintain a broad skill set of physical activities and then the bonus being something that I can follow through pregnancy and then postpartum

when I'm recovered back to normal activity. Easy. In a normal week, just to give you a little bit more detail, in a normal week, because it sounds like you do a lot of active things, would you say that consistently you do the taekwondo and the skiing? Is it like three days out of the week, four days out of the week? How often are you doing the other physical activities, which I love? Yeah, yeah.

So no week is normal, which is just my life. I'd say Taekwondo probably again, most consistently, like two to three times per week in the evenings and then skiing being seasonal. But we go, you know, we go cross country, we go not cross country skiing, but across the country. So we come to the West Coast, we go to Canada, we've been to France. So we we think of ourselves as like more intermediate to advanced skiers. So being conditioned for the, for that is quite important. Um, and the other things are really just sprinkled in, but I like to be able to hop on a bike and go for a 15 mile bike ride, excuse me, without like feeling like I'm like totally not fit for it.

I got the perfect program for you. Yeah. Matt maps 15 advanced version. That's it easy. And you can follow that right now. And with your muscle memory, Jenny, you're gonna get, you'll be great. And what you don't wanna do while you're pregnant

is chase or get obsessed with PRs. You don't wanna do that because, mainly because, I know the obvious, okay, I'm pregnant, I got a baby, but really what it is, if you boil it down, is you have changing muscle recruitment patterns that are happening in particular That your core musculature and your pelvic floor and there's a lot of reasons why that that changes one of them is the growing baby

But you also have changing hormones your joints your mobility is gonna change So what you don't want to do especially especially someone like you with so much muscle memory from all of your training Because you'll build muscle fast. Don't go crazy with trying to get super strong in the gym. Be very controlled, very methodical, the muscle will come and then the muscle is hyper protective postpartum. I think the most protective thing you can do is to have some good strength and good muscle, good mitochondrial density because postpartum you're probably not going to do a lot of exercise for a little while and then you know It's a good six months to a year before your sleep gets back to normal whole thing

I'm sure you heard all the all the horror stories. So I would go maps 15 advanced version It's two lifts a day and it leaves plenty of time for you to do all the other stuff that you want to do And it would be perfect for someone like you And it incorporates mobility strength and range of, and everything that I be looking for. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Especially in combination with Tae Kwon Do and some of your other activities. But yeah, we wrote the program to be very balanced.

I mean, in fact, we went through it like a couple months ago, looking through the whole program. I mean, it includes rotation, there's lateral movement, there's traditional strength training. You do the advanced version, which take you about 25 minutes would be your workout time. And it's about, what is it, five days a week, six days a week? Something like that.

Yeah, six. Six days a week. So six days a week, you're doing two lifts a day, essentially. It would be absolutely perfect for someone like you. And like, if you miss a day, I'm traveling, not a big deal. So what I'll do with it, because I'm following it right now, is if you miss a day, what's nice the way we structured it is you could double up a day, double up two days in a row.

Okay. Yeah, so if, and where you're at in your fitness journey, you also could get away with skipping it too. Yeah, you're fine. So if you were my client, I would be more worried of us overdoing things than probably underdoing things. So you might be someone who I'd say, oh, you're traveling, don't worry about it. We'll just pick up where we were and just keep going.

But you technically could probably pair it up. But again, you're such an active fit person that you probably have it. If I, you know, just from the little bit of time we've spent talking, I would guess you tend to probably do more than you need than you probably don't. The key is to understand This is what we tell people all the time. So we've all trained a lot of women pre during and post pregnancy Most the work has done before During pregnancy, you're just keeping things. Okay, you're just trying to maintain essentially is what you're trying to do

Postpartum is where a lot of people screw up especially fitness fanatics because you're gonna feel like you could get into things and go harder than your body's actually prepared for. And hip and back injuries are super common because of that changing recruitment pattern. So postpartum, I highly recommend you do some physical therapy, some pelvic floor physical therapy. And then MAPS Starter. Now someone like you is gonna look at MAPS starter and you'll be like, this is so easy and basic and stupid. Trust me, trust me, start with MAPS starter, and then after that you should be able to get into

workouts that you're more used to. You can't go too slow. Someone like you, I would say you can't go too slow because you're not gonna do nothing. MAPS starter to muscle mommy would be great. And then after that, muscle mommy. So you'd go, right now you're MAPS 15, then starter, then muscle mommy. So you'd go right now you're, you're, you're a massive teen. Then, then starter, then muscle mommy would be the perfect, you know, follow up.

Amazing. And it was, um, was starter, uh, what Katrina ran through when she was pregnant too. I remember me talking about that. So that's, and I'm also, you hit the nail on the head when I, if I go into the gym and I haven't been in for a while and like, I want to know what he used to be able to do before. So even, even like, even going 50% of that can, can be overdoing it for me. And I'm like, well, you know, I'm sore, which isn't, you know, sometimes it's a good thing. Sometimes it's not, but in the case of eating back into it, it's, it's not,

is this your first, the use can be your first child? My first, yeah. Congratulations. So, so you know, really the challenge is also this. You're gonna go into the gym and you're gonna feel strong. You're gonna feel good because of all the work you've done, all the training you've done, all that stuff. But the changes in the recruitment patterns, if we're not careful, if you're not like super careful, you'll just keep hurting yourself. Like, oh my god, I hurt my back again. Oh my back, what's going on here? Why do I keep hurting myself? Crucially, we work on that stability. Yeah, oh my God, I hurt my back again. Oh, what's going on here? Why do I keep hurting myself? Crucially work on that stability.

Yeah, because all the pelvic floor muscles, the core musculature, completely changes in its recruitment pattern. So when you go back to the gym, there's gonna be a period of time we have to regain your old recruitment patterns pre-pregnancy. Otherwise you're left with a recruitment pattern

that's ideal for pregnancy, not ideal for working out, at least the way you were used to. Right, right, yeah, I'm already starting, like just in the last week or so, I've started to pop just a little, and I can already tell my core is like, probably not where it should be,

so it'll be helpful immediately. Yes, and it's where it should be, it's just different. You know, because things stretch out, so when muscles are stretched, they're not as strong, they're not able to fire the way they're supposed to, and so your body's gonna rely on other muscles to maintain stability, and then it learns that pattern, okay? Then you have the baby, even if your tummy flattens out,

which it probably will, because of your fitness background, so you're probably gonna get back to, okay, this is great. You still have the old recruitment pattern, which is not ideal at that point to train, at least not in a hard way. Right, okay. All right. It all makes sense. Yeah, thank you.

You got it, do you have MAPS 15? No, I had been looking at it. We'll send it to you. So, that'd be amazing. Thank you so much. I have a handful of other programs, but you got it. We'll get to those later. Do we know if you a boy or girl, what do you got coming? No, we're keeping it a surprise.

We think it's a boy. So I'll be very surprised if it's a girl, but I'm like, even if it is, she'll be a tomboy and whatever. Do we do? I love it. I love it. Awesome. Great.

So nice to meet you guys. have a great rest of your day. You too. You too, good one. Great question. Yeah, really good question. Yeah, the challenges with fitness during pregnancy for people who don't work out is that they play catch up. Yeah.

And then the people who- It's like an urgency to all of a sudden get strong. Yes, and then the people who do work out, they overestimate what they can do. That is such a common thing. I remember you talking about with Katrina, and it happened with Jessica even, it's like, well, but I feel good.

Why is my back hurting? I'm like, honey, your stability is so different than it used to be. You have to treat yourself like a different body. Yeah, you gotta retrain that bracing sequence all over again. She's gonna do great. Yep. Our next caller is Curtis from the UK. What's up Curtis? What's going on Curtis? How can we help

you? Morning gentlemen, how you doing? Good. Good. Good. So I'll give a bit of backdrop on myself and I'll jump straight into the emailing question. So my name is Curtis, I'm 30, 10, 31 tomorrow, So, my name is Curtis, I'm 30, I'm 31 tomorrow, and started when I was 17, getting into fitness, took it a stint and I moved around to Thailand to do a bit of mixed martial arts, then came back to the UK again, started running, started going to the gym, then got into obstacle course racing, which I know you guys are familiar with now, because it's kind of taken over a little bit, made it to the world championships, got a bit further, progressed with that, took it quite seriously in the end, ended up joining the army from it, went on to P company, made a good career out of it and then just slowly started falling out of fitness as you will kind of do every once in

a while. It was at that time where I fell out, I started noticing a couple of issues. I don't know if it's because I slowed my pace down, I don't know if it's because I slowed my pace down. I don't know if it's my diet or regime change, but I started noticing a lot of internal things happening to me. So I went to the doctors and after about three years, four years of in and outs, they diagnosed me with something called ulcerative colitis, which from listening to yourselves and reading more about it is exactly what the leaky gut syndrome is, which obviously is quite a new thing. There's not a lot about it at the minute. And it's only because of yourself. So I actually found out what that

was. So I've been to my doctors about it. They've kind of agreed that it's not the go to phrase anymore, but at the moment, but that is the symptoms are exactly the same. Now my issue is, at the minute, I'm taking everything quite seriously with the calories, with the programs that I'm doing, which is currently on MAPS Strong, still in phase one at the minute, about moving to phase two.

My calories are up there. My calories are 3000, 4000, 5000 sometimes. So I started on 5000 about last year when I was bulking up because I've always been quite a lean runner. My issue is with what I've got with this leaky gut syndrome, are my calories just being wasted? No, they're not being wasted, but it's not helping you. It's probably not helping you though. So ulcerative colitis is an autoimmune

issue and it's leaky gut would be in some cases is autoimmune but in other cases is caused by lifestyle. Ulcerative colitis can be categorized as a autoimmune issue. And I would 100%, if you're looking for the best results in the gym, you wanna eat in a way that reduces that type of reaction. Eating a lot of calories and pushing through could cause it to get much worse and then forget about everything. So I would be that would be where I would focus. Are you familiar with the carbohydrate

specific diet or some of the other diets that people with like Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis have used?, so I've been through quite a few, especially over my running career. So I went from recently, actually a few years back, started out with carnivore diet, because everyone at one point thinks that's a good idea, came off of that, went keto, and have kind of played around with calories.

So I found quite a lot of specific foods that kind of all flare and not help the situation. So I cut them out completely. Beautiful. I miss a lot of them, but it is what it is. So I've tried doing things like that. So at the moment, it's, I mean, quite a bland diet, but equally I'm getting the calories and getting the nutrition I need.

So it's all balanced out. I'm hitting the protein, hitting the fat, hitting the carbs, but it's, yeah, I have taken quite a lot out. Now with the, with the foods that you're eating with your with your diet, are you having any symptoms or do you feel symptom-free at the moment? Wouldn't say symptom-free and certainly wouldn't say that haven't been symptom-free in about five years, I don't think But it's a lot more controllable. Okay, good. That's good. So the other thing I would do is I would I would look at meal frequency Okay, good. That's good. So the other thing I would do is I would look at meal frequency. Longer breaks tend to help and just the total volume of the amount of food that you eat. Now, I remember that I'll tell you about a conversation I had with a pro bodybuilder years ago that blew my mind. So Ben Pokulski, he was a giant pro bodybuilder at one point. Then

he retired. He tried to lose a bunch of muscle because he wanted to be more you know more svelte or whatever but I sat down with him and talked we had him on the show years ago and I said man you know bodybuilders have pro body was have just crazy genetics he said yeah you know this that the other I said they're able to just eat so much food and absorb it all and he looked at me he said no he goes pro bodybuilders can build a lot of muscle on little food and it blew my mind like of course of course you know it's like they their bodies are so efficient with their food and can move it to muscle so well you know he's a 280 pound guy if he's not eating 10,000 calories I know we hear stories of guys

that do that but most these bodybuilders will eat a diet only like 5,000 calories like you but they're 270 pounds of muscle. So where am I going with this? You don't necessarily need to push your, like you're already high, your calories are high. You don't need to go crazy with pushing your calories. What you need to look at is your workout programming. That's where I would place my focus. I would look at my workout programming, is it effective?

Am I stronger? I would look at other factors like sleep. I would look at nutrient efficiency. You may actually find that reducing your calories a little bit because it reduces some of your symptoms may actually result in more muscle gain. So now this is typically not the case with most people you have to have them eat more, but when I see someone like you already eating four or five thousand calories, I don't think we need to push more calories. I don't think we need to push more calories.

I don't think that's the answer. No, no, no, definitely not. I mean, I think that's one of the things that will actually give you a little bit of relief is coming down. Are you currently doing all the OCR running stuff that you were doing before? Have you cut all that out? No, I can't all of it out. I did, I got into ultramarathons last year and I was supposed to do one last week actually,

but I just don't. I've got out of it. Now I've started with the proper programs, which I was always doing my own thing in the gym, but now I've done anabolic, aesthetic performance. No one's strong, about going to, well, do split after. Now I'm doing them, that's my self focus. So I've stopped all the cardio, I've stopped that.

I just walk a lot, I'm doing a lot of steps. And your sleep is okay? Sleep's great, yeah. I mean, we've got a, we've got a 20-month-old and a six-month-old, so sleep's okay. Okay, you just threw a wrench in the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. Match 15 now.

Curtis, you just threw a wrench in the whole thing. Yeah, so strong is great. Aesthetic is fine, split is fine, but they're all pretty high volume. Strong, deceptively high volume. Those work session days will beat you up. I think with the, I have kids, so you have a six month old and a 20 month old,

they're probably too much volume for your body. And considering your background in ultra marathon, marathon, MMA, you probably have a tendency to do more than you need or push your body to how it can tolerate, not necessarily what is ideal. I bet you, I bet you if you switch to Maps 15, advanced version, brought the calories down a little bit, just to give your gut a little bit of a break,

I bet you'd start to build muscle. It'd be a good experiment to see. Yeah, I'd love to see you on Maps 15 in about 3,500 calories, bro. That's gonna be good. And I bet you would start to see muscle gains from that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Math 15. Yeah. I'm back down. I'm on 2,700 at the minute. Again, I've took it a break, so I'm supposed to run. So I could bulk that up a little bit and then,

yeah, quit that guy. Yeah. I mean, if you're down at 2,700, 2,700 to 3,000 calories, I think is a safe place of you're getting enough nutrients, you're gonna be okay. and paired with Math 15. If you don't have Math 15, I'll have Doug send it over to you so you got that. Yeah, and I bet, and here's the deal, Curtis. If you follow it and it's right, you'll know within a week or two.

You won't have to wait a month or two. By the second week, you'll be like, oh, I'm stronger. And then you know right away, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. You'll feel good. Perfect, okay, yeah, fine, I'll give it a go you know right away, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. You'll feel good. Perfect, okay, yeah, fine, I'll give it a go. You got it, mate, we'll send it to you. Perfect, thank you very much, thank you very much, yeah.

All right, all right, man. I'm glad he threw in the, I have a six month old and a 20 month old. Yeah, yeah. Well, because I knew his background. Yeah. You know, he looked like a young man, so I didn't, for some reason, think he had little kids,

but his background is over training. Like that's, you're an endurance athlete, ultra marathon, the goal is to push your body to its limit. So you've already got that mentality, plus the ulcerative colitis, which by the way, we'll flare up with over training. Over training causes inflammation overall. And eating that many calories, so I had an idea

that it's probably programming. Once he said he had the kids, the babies, oh yeah, that's what's happening right now. Let's back off. Yeah, that means he's setting it over the top. It'll be exciting to see how his body responds. The hardest part is like most people we talk about psychologically is taking somebody who's like that,

who can push his- The good news is you'll know by week two or three. Yeah, if he actually sticks to it, right? That's right. Yeah, 100%. Our next caller is Jace from Texas. Jace, what's up, man? What's going on? What's happening? Hey fellas how's it going? Good. Perfect. I'm sure everybody you know I've heard you guys for a long time and following probably

about two years when I actually moved to Texas. My question I want to get right into the question I'll say the thank you's for after but I'll just read straight from it. So my question was originally about bulking strength gains between programs. So I'm six foot my question was originally about bulking, strength gains between programs. So I'm six foot, my weight was like 195 for about a year. My body fat percentage is about 15%. I've never really calculated it using any kind of metric. At that time I was about 3000 calories a day.

I did anabolic first probably last summer. Then I went to symmetry after that and I just finished old-time strengths about in June. The old-time strengths probably had the most aesthetic changes for me just because I was doing a lot of lifting similar to anabolic before. I put my you know my lifts in there my squat was about 335 deadlift 335 and bench press was 225 at the end of old time. So both of my questions were, you know, I was lifting more weight on when I first started,

like when I finished anabolic, I was close to four, I was like 405 deadlift, my squat was about 380 and my bench press was probably about 250. So like, do you see that, you know, the first question was after you finished different programs, do you see that, you know, the first question was after you finish different programs, do you see the weight drop like that on certain lifts if you're, you know, changing the type of lifts that you do or like focusing different things? And then the other question was, you know, I was at 3,000 and I put, it was a question

about pushing the 4,000. I was struggling with 3,000 at that time. And then last month, just to update you guys, my work was like a little slower. So I was, I really focused on like just getting the calories in and my weight did go up to I'm at two or three now. Definitely saw some aesthetic changes. I started anabolic advanced and I saw some definitely upper body aesthetic changes when my lifts are still about, you know, 330, 350 on deadlift and squat.

So I think my question comes, I figured out the calorie part, I just needed to push it, Lifts are still about 330, 350 on deadlift and squat. So I think my question comes, I figured out the calorie part, I just needed to push it, but they all see lift changes between programs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you do because, so strength comes from a few different places, okay? And this, I'm gonna really simplify,

it's more complex than this. You have your muscles ability to contract and bigger muscles contract harder. You have your central nervous system's ability to fire or tell your muscle fibers to fire and organize its muscles. And then there's a skill of the lift which is kind of both of those combined. A lot of strength is skill. So if I practice, like you follow MAPS Anabolic, it's a very deadlift, squat, bench heavy program. You're practicing those lifts often, so the skill you're going to develop with them is going to contribute to your strength gains.

If I stop doing those lifts, if I stop bench pressing, but let's say I do other chest exercises, or I stop deadlifting, but I still do stiff legged deadlifts and other exercises, I'm still going to lose a little strength in the deadlift. That doesn't mean I'm losing development, doesn't mean my muscles are getting smaller, I'm just not practicing the skill of that lift. So you are gonna see some of that go down, especially when you start to get into the place you're at,

where you've been consistent with your workouts, you're pretty strong. My lifts can flex your weight 30, 40 pounds easily now. Now when you first, first get started the first year, you typically see things go up all the time. But once you've been lifting for a while, if I don't squat for three or four weeks, it's going to go down.

Even if I work my legs out and do other exercises, I'm probably going to lose a little strength in my squat, because I haven't practiced it. So that's what you're noticing. I mean, if you want to see that skyrocket, I know, go to MAPS Power Lift. You've done good programs already that are, I think, great balance all around for you with symmetry and old-timey.

I think if you went over to MAPS Power Lift, if you care about that, if you really want to see your bench, squat, deadlift, go back up, and actually probably break through to a PR, MAPS Power Lift would be a great program to follow. Yeah, I've been torn. It's always a strength versus hypertrophy, what I want more. And I was just surprised. I hear a lot of people talk like Yeah, I've been torn. You know, it's always a strength versus hypertrophy. You know, what I want more.

And I was just surprised, like I hear a lot of people talk, like they'll do symmetry or something. And then like when they go to the five by five, they're like, you know, they hit PR. So when I finished symmetry and I got to the five by five, I felt weaker on squat. I think like, I don't know if there's the nervous system change like you talked about,

cause I hadn't squatted in months. Yeah. No, that can happen. You're different. You're different because of your level and where you're at. Typically, when you hear that from somebody, that's like it's somebody who's earlier on. Corrected in the balance.

There was right to left discrepancy. They needed a break in that particular way of lifting. But if you're so if I took a top tier power lifter, let's just say I took a competitive power lifter, and I said, all we're going gonna do for the next eight weeks is Unilateral training it would be good for them, but their max lifts would go down Yeah, because they're not they're at that level reinforce their stability But yeah at the same time because of the lack of the continuous repetition it would bring it down now over time So Jace over time

Those numbers will surpass your old numbers because you're not creating imbalances, because you're more balanced, you're preventing injury. So think of strength, especially when you get to the more advanced levels or higher levels, as a stepladder, not as a continual, you know, consistent growth. This is why we jump back and forth to strength, to hypertrophy, so it's good to run it completely

specific, just strength focused, and then kind of we can come back to the hypertrophy training after that, after you get an increase in strength gains. Well, this is also why I liked recommending Matt's powerlifts is because you've done good programs to get some good balance and stuff like that with the symmetry. And then what was the other one you did?

You did symmetry. Strong. No, no, no, symmetry. Old time. Old time, sorry. Thank you. And I'm in now, I'm in advanced right now. Yeah, and then for you to go to something like powerlifting, Semitron and no no no symmetry time and all time. Thank you Yeah, and then for you to go to something like a powerlifting like I think you would actually probably see powers in some of your Live, how many weeks are you into anabolic advanced?

So I did a solid month with phase one and then my work had really busy and I kind of changed phase two around I couldn't commit to the six days a week. So I'm doing like three days a week. So I'm basically doing like half Time so I'm doing like the upper body, upper lower split and then a half day. Just kind of survive. And then when I get on the easier month, I'll go back to the six days a week and I'll finish that off.

But I'm like, I'm in phase two right now. But I'm still getting aesthetic changes from just that volume and eating four calories. Like my upper body development has gone up. It's just the lower body. Like I don don't want to drop 315 is like where I want I don't want to lose that on my daily for a squat yeah yeah advanced is a little bit more hypertrophy focused and traditional anabolic it's also less appropriate for most people what do we wrote it as advanced what it what it

just what do you do for work that where your schedule fluctuates like that where you get so what do you do I'm a where your schedule fluctuates like that where you get so what do you do? I'm a, a surgery trainee. So, uh, surgical oncology fellow. Oh wow. Oh, long hours. I mean, what's the holy shit. Why are you doing maps? Anabolic advanced? I am very familiar with the club. I had an off month for research, so I was able to commit. That's where I went full blown on the calories. Just want to see if I can move the needle for really pushing it. And it did.

And then I'm pulling, you know, I'm still in antibiotic analog advanced and I wanted to do like a slower version of it, but not completely discard it Listen, this is another variable that we didn't talk about that. I'm so glad you asked me. Yeah This is another variable that could absolutely have a major impact on your lifts, too I mean you're again you're now at this level of your you're a strong guy and Man when when work kicks up stress kicks up, I got a lot on my plate. Uh, it'll absolutely affect my. Listen, I trained a lot of surgeons and I know like what the hours you put, especially as a fellow, why don't you just let us know, let everybody know,

what are your hours look like when you're in the middle of it? Um, so I'm pretty much operating every day. Um, so most of it's standing, not actually sitting. I mean, uh, I get here at 5 a.m. and I'm going home probably at 6 p.m. and in the oral, they actually have clinics. So it's a break, but yeah. And then the other, the weekend, um, rounding and then called a few times a month in the middle of the night. Yeah. So yeah, we have in-house.

All right, listen, listen, Jay's. You need Maths 15, homie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, bro. I know. I figured you guys would say that. Yeah, yeah. It's not, I think the sixth day of the week are tough

because it's inconsistent. Like if I get an hour break somewhere, I'll go. So you can pair them, you can pair them up. So that's what's cool about Maths 15. Maths 15, the way we set and structured it. If you miss a day, stack it the next day. If you miss what's cool about Maps 15. Maps 15, the way we set structured it. If you miss a day, stack it to the next day. If you miss a day, stack the days. And then it's only four exercises,

so it's still under an hour of a workout. So I do think that's more appropriate for you. And I actually think you're gonna be surprised on how strong you get doing just that. And you're doing oncology? Yes, it's cancer surgery. Yeah, I know what that is. So holy, yeah, so all right. So you're in there for a while. Yes, it's cancer surgery. Yeah, I know what that is. Yeah, so holy, yeah, so, all right.

So you're in there for a while. Yes, it's some long days. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right. Have you done- One more year. Have you helped with the Whipple procedure yet? Yep. Oh, what is that? How long does that take? Well, the easier ones are, you know,

close to five, six hours. Longer ones can be all day. You're in there, you're not leaving, guys. Like you ain't leaving to go to the bathroom or nothing. Yeah, that's why the calories have been so difficult. Like to get 3,000 in a day was really tough. Sometimes I'd be like, oh yeah. You need Math 15 in your arsenal.

Math 15 is your program, bro. We're gonna send it over. Okay, you have it? I have it. Okay, there you go. Yeah, you just need to move into that. You probably need to live in that more often And you have little short little spurts you're gonna make gains off it, too. Yeah stay in that bro stay in that

I know it's tough for probably a type-a personality go-getter like guy, but it's probably more appropriate for you, man Yeah, I figure you guys I said do have time for one more question. Yeah. Yeah, so I noticed on symmetry I did have an imbalance. Um, it's like my left ankle is less mobile than my right. Uh, and I started having right hip pain with hip hinging. So when that was all, I never had it before until like, I guess I got stronger somewhere, but, um, I noticed now when I started pushing above three 15, when I hip hand at the top of a deadlift, that I feel this pain, like in my glutes and

the hip, um, but it's not rest of the day when I'm walking is totally fine and same thing when I squat at the top of the squad when I kind of it's not really hip hinge but when you squat up and you contract the glute I still have the same pain and it's only when I start really working up and it'll limit like the amount of volume I can do it doesn't limit my strength but it's just a nagging. Is it the piriformis? Is it right where the piriformis muscle is? Do you know where that is? Yeah it's yeah just not sciatic. It doesn't shoot down my leg or anything. I think it is piriformis. I just never noticed that it was you know I was trying to think how during the hip hinge

with you know how to get that pain because I know piriformis when you're like sitting. You'll have instability from right to left in your hips more than likely if you get in a 90 90 I actually just talked about this in my docuseries because what I noticed was when I was squatting when I first got back into it I had this same thing on the left side I was noticing the hip getting tighter on just just a little bit but I could I noticed it right away and what I communicated to the the the video or the camera, I was just, what's going on right now is if I don't address this, it'll exacerbate over time.

And what it was was there was a discrepancy between internal and external rotation of the hip on one side more than the other. And an easy way to tell that is if you get down in a 90-90 and then you try and lift your foot up off the back of the ground on one side, and then you'll notice one side you'll be able to lift way more than the other side.

And that tells me. So the internal rotation, external rotation of the hips is a little off. Yes. Do you have Prime Pro? Cause that has great hip mobility and ankle mobility stuff. I don't have Prime Pro, but I've been working on my ankle mobility.

I do have some improvement, but there's still the discrepancy. Yeah. You know, like I'm doing Cossack Squats and I can do it on the right side and balance completely the left side, I'll fall backwards. All right.

We'll send you Prime Pro and there's great ankle and hip mobility stuff in there that you could practice throughout the day that'll make a difference. And if you're ever feeling pain in your glute, and it's not impossible, but it's often not the glute. It's far more common

that it's either the hamstring insertion or even more common, the piriformis. And you don't necessarily have to feel it down your sciatica. It just feels like it's deep in your glute. You're like, what's going on? And that usually means there's a hip, there's an instability in the hip.

And so the piriformis, not necessarily a strong muscle, and it gets a little overloaded, especially when you're lifting a lot of weight. Do it as much as you possibly can, at the bare minimum, every single time you squat or deadlift, you've got to prime with the 90-90s in the combat. Like that's just gotta be your go-to before you ever touch that barbell

and it'll make a difference. Yep. Okay, I really appreciate it guys. You gotta do this. I do wanna thank you for all that you guys do and not even just the strength training thing is something I'm like using on patients now, like focusing on protein, trying to get strength training.

Even my colleagues, a lot of people have chronic back pain and poor posture from doing this job. I have to give actually a shout out to Justin Wimells, or a lifesaver for surgery. It's just from, a lot of people have back pain and I'm pain free operating, so I really appreciate all you guys do. That's great, man.

Yeah, I appreciate what you do, man. Thanks for helping people the way you do. Thank you. Doug's gonna send Prime Pro over to you, Jason. Awesome, thank you. All right, man. Yeah, I'm so glad you asked that question. I feel so stupid not to ask.

Because then everything makes sense now. Yeah, it really does. I mean, I was kind of scratching my head because that is a decent amount of weight to drop off of that. It's in spite of the fact that it's.... Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, uh, cause what you said is right. I mean, if you, I mean, law of specificity, right? So if you're training something different and then you go back to it,

of course it'd be a little bit weaker, but that was quite a bit. And I thought, you know what? I wonder if this dude, and then he made the comment about like, Oh, work's been good right now. And I'm like, Oh, I wonder what are you doing? Yeah. What do you do? He's like fucking 16 hour days break. And you know, that's not going to work. And when you're in your, I wonder if he has- Yeah, what are you doing? Yeah, what are you doing? He's doing fucking 16 hour days. Cancer surgery. Break and the- And you know- That's not gonna work in his normal schedule. I brought up one of the most challenging surgeries just to put it, you know, create context.

When you're in surgery, you're there and you're on and it's intense, especially, especially cancer surgery. Like that's a big deal. And a Whipple, I brought up a Whipple. No breaks. I had a client that was a general surgeon and she came in one day, the day after she performed a Whipple that took her,

I think it was 11 hours. Wow. You're not leaving, you don't got no breaks. You gotta take a pee, hold this. So it's not even just that too, because right away people think of the like, oh wow, the physical demand of standing all day. That's bad.

No, no, no, it's the mental stress, dude. It's yes, the stress of doing something like that. You make a wrong's no, no, no. It's the mental stress. The stress of doing something like that. You make a wrong move and it's so and your so your body's getting this this high level perceived stress all day long and then you're trying to make gains. It's just, I mean, you got to back off, dude. You got to back off of those times for sure. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at mind pump. Justin, I'm at mind pump to Stefano and Adam's at mind pump out. Thank you for listening to mind pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body,

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