Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2453: Three Things NOBODY Tells You About Gaining Muscle After 40 (Listener Coaching)

Episode Date: October 25, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin answer four Pump Head questions from the Sunday @mindpumpmedia Quah post. Mind Pump Fit Tip:  Three things NOBODY tells you about gaining muscle after 40. (1:53) Does your birth order play a role in your IQ? (21:14) Defining success and embracing the struggle. (31:50) Organifi’s Starter Kit. (43:09) Underrated exercises. (45:19) GLP-1s impact on your skin. (51:39) The importance of starting a skincare routine. (54:30) Shout out to Brad Jensen! (57:02) #Quah question #1 – How do you gauge appropriate workout intensity? I never get sore, but I have a feeling my workouts are too intense as I have overtraining symptoms. How do you gauge the appropriate dose because I’m scared of doing too little? (58:01) #Quah question #2 – As a 30+ year old female, how realistic is it to achieve and maintain a low enough body fat percentage that showcases abs, leg muscles, defined shoulders, and maintain a healthy hormone profile? Is this possible to maintain without tracking? (1:04:46) #Quah question #3 – Are there any pros and/or cons for lifting low reps and heavy weight for 5-8 reps and mid-weight for 10-12 reps in the same workout in a Push/Pull/Legs split? (1:09:56) #Quah question #4 – What are your thoughts on pausing the use of a GLP-1 for a couple of weeks to do a mini-bulk and then get back on the GLP-1? My calories have dropped low, and I am wondering if interrupting the large deficit with a little bulk would keep me on the right track. (1:15:00) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off. Organifi Stater Kit: Starting your new juicing routine has never been easier! Snag this simplified starter kit and see what the lifestyle’s all about. 7 days each of Green Juice and Red Juice Travel Packs, 30 days of Essential Magnesium Capsules, 1 branded Organifi shaker bottle. ** Visit Caldera Lab for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off your first order of their best products ** October Promotion: MAPS Muscle Mommy 50% off! ** Code OCTOBER50 at checkout ** Mind Pump #1225: The 5 Must-Dos For Fitness Over 40 Building Muscle with Adam Schafer – Mind Pump TV Mind Pump #1530: Why Warm-Ups Are a Waste of Time Mind Pump #1345: 6 Ways to Optimize Sleep for Faster Muscle Gain and Fat Loss Study: First-born children are smarter, more successful than their siblings Mike Tyson neck training Prone Cobra Row Focus Session- - YouTube Visit Paleovalley for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Discount is now automatically applied at checkout 15% off your first order! ** Mind Pump #1142: Nine Signs You Are Overtraining Mind Pump #1897: Why Phasing Your Workouts Is So Important & How to Properly Switch It Up Mind Pump #2410: How to Maximize Fat Loss & Preserve Muscle on GLP-1s (Introducing MAPS GLP-1) Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Arthur Brooks (@arthurcbrooks)  Instagram Jordan B. Peterson (@JordanBPeterson) X Brad Jensen (@thesoberbodybuilder) Instagram Brendon Ayanbadejo (@brendon310) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we answered listeners' questions. People wrote in questions. We got to pick them to answer at the end of the episode but this was after a 56 minute intro portion. Now the intro, me and the guys talk. We have a lot of fun. We talk about current events,

fitness, science, family stuff. By the way, if you want to write in a question that we can pick from, go to Instagram. Do it at Mindpump Media under the Qua meme. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Organifi. Today we talked about their starter kit. This comes with seven days of red juice, green juice, so red juice, energy, green juice, chill, both good for health. It also comes with 30 days of essential magnesium and you get a shaker cup with it. Go check them out. Check out the starter kit. Go to organifi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com. Forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump. Get 20% off. This episode is also

brought to you by Caldera. Caldera makes skincare products that balance out the microbiome on your skin. They can make oily skin less oily, dry skin a little bit more moist. It takes away fine lines and wrinkles. Studies have shown on Caldera that 9 out of 10 people Loved the way that it worked. Anyway, go check them out. Get a discount. Go to calderalab.com. That's C-A-L-D-E-R-A-L-A-B.com Forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump 20 get 20% off your first order We also have a sale on a workout program this month. MAPS Muscle Mommy is 50% off. You can find it at MAPSFitnessProducts.com but you have to use the code October 50 for the discount. Alright, here comes the show. If you're over 40

and trying to get fit, it's not going to happen because there's three things nobody tells you about. Learn these things and it will happen. Ooh, I'm curious where you're gonna go this direction. And I feel like this is close to home for me right now. I know, well we're all, we've all been. New considerations. We've all been working out ourselves for a long time. We're all well over 40.

Justin and I are in the middle. Well easy, easy. Yeah, some of us are barely over 40. What are you at now? You're 42, 43? 43. 43, oh you're in the middle now. Yeah. So, and most of our clients were in this age group, I would say.

Yeah, majority I would say. And I want to open and start with by saying that the body never loses the ability to adapt to exercise. And when I say adapt, I mean all the great things that we want, right? Build muscle, get stronger, get leaner, become more fit. Like your body never loses the ability to improve itself with the proper application of exercise. In fact, even if we go into much later years, there

was a study that showed that people in their 70s could build muscle and strength just as well as people in their late 50s, early 60s. Now the difference is the potential, obviously your top potential starts to drop as you get older, right? So you might not be able to do the crazy things you could do in your 20s when you're in your 40s, but most people in their 40s don't care about that.

What they want is like fitness, health, they want to feel good, look good. And that's not just possible, it's likely if you do the right things, but fitness for people over 40 isn't communicated properly. And I think, and I'll talk about the right things, but fitness for people over 40 isn't communicated properly. And I think, and I'll talk about the first one, and I know you guys know this one, it just doesn't sound sexy, but I'm gonna sell it

right now because if you do this part right, it makes everything else 10 times more effective. Before you go, let me, because I don't know what they are, right, I haven't seen what you're gonna say, but I, without even knowing, like, the thing that I think is most interesting, and hopefully this aligns with where you're going to say, but I, without even knowing, like the thing that I think is most interesting in hopefully this aligns with where you're going is that these are very powerful lessons that, uh, even if you're 20, you need to know. The difference is when you're 40, you have to know you have to.

And I feel like, and I, like, again, I don't know which direction you're going, but I'm assuming that the ones you're going to, you're're gonna hit on are ones I wish I really paid attention to, even in my 20s. But the truth is, if you don't, don't worry. The intensity wasn't there. You will have to. You will eventually have to learn this, because when you get into your 40s,

I feel like these things, you can't get away with the same way you could in your 20s. 100%. Am I online or what? Yes, dude, 100%. So the first one is that mobility and mobility work is the priority, it's number one. And if you look at the data on people attempting to improve their fitness over the age of 40,

and even people who've been working out for decades who then get into their 40s, the number one thing that stops them, besides just not going to the gym, although this contributes to that, is injury, pain, the inability to do their favorite exercises or workouts. And mobility work solves that. Mobility work prevents any of those roadblocks from happening and mobility work allows you to take advantage of the most effective exercise.

Like I can't tell you how many times I would talk to people in their forties who have been working out for a long time and just didn't understand this. And they would say things to me like, Oh man, I used to love squatting. Like squatting was such a great exercise, but I haven't squatted. I had to stop five years ago because yeah, knee back, whatever, or yeah, I used to love deadlifting, but I can't do it anymore. I don't overhead press anymore because of whatever. And they're taking away these exercises that are so effective and

now realizing that like you can do those forever. You just need to focus on mobility, connection, stability. If you do that, you'll do them until, until you die. Well, this is definitely related, but it just reminds me of when I used to play basketball with my dad and his friends and we would just do these pickup games on the weekend. And the amount of prep necessary for him just to be able to step out on the court and move and actually have movement and not be stiff, rigid, and have some immediate pain was vital. He had to do this whole ritual, this process, you know,

rub the Asper cream, the Ben Gay on every single joint. Uh, and I make fun of them. And I was like, what, why do you have to do all of this? Like I just get up and go and I'm ready to go. And, uh, and he just realized that all of this, uh, additional time that you've spent doing and creating patterns, creating movement patterns, the environment you're presenting yourself all the time, all of that you have, you're fighting against that now, the further you age. All of that becomes part of your solidified programming that now it's vital that we have to interrupt that.

And we have to like create better movement patterns and start recreating that education with your body to be able to respond properly. So glad that we're having this discussion today, because it's, you know, it feels like I feel like when, especially with family and friends, that this is like, we communicate this, I feel like all the time, yet they still seem to ignore this or be like, oh yeah, I'll get around or it's not that important. On the way to work today, my mother's husband called me to tell me, hey, I've been following the series on YouTube. Now, granted this is my mother's husband of many years now and I've talked to him, he has every access to every one of our programs. I've told him what to do a million times. I know he's been in the gym for a while now and he's like,

yeah, man, so I started following your series and been doing all the mobility stuff. Before he goes, holy crap, that makes a huge difference. I'm like, wow, really? I wish I had told you that. Yeah, I know. It's like, it's so crazy to me because I feel like I know I would have told you that. Yeah, I know. It's like so crazy to me because I feel like, I know I've definitely communicated that like, thoroughly to him, but it's like, he needed to see me do it. He needed something so basic just to follow, like I'll just do the same things he's doing.

And then right away, he sees the translation in his movement, in his workout, like holy crap, that makes a huge difference. And it's more than, by the way, I wanna be clear, it's more than just a proper warmup. So people think mobility, oh, I have to have a good warmup. And the reason why I have a good warmup is because I'm older now.

So my body's more stiff and I don't recover as fast and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. No, no, no, that's not, that's true, but that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is when you're over 40, you've had a longer time in the world to move in ways that are not optimal. And even if it's slightly optimal,

if you do that for 20 years, then things start to become a problem. So if you think of a machine hinge, if it moves one degree outside of optimal, you're not gonna notice at first. But then over time, the joint starts to wear. The hinge, you start to see problems. And so this is

what happens once you get to 40 plus is that, yeah you know I ran and I worked out and my technique was just a little off on my exercise but it never bothered me but I've been doing it for so long now I have to stop, I have to stop doing those exercises. Mobility work fixes that, maintains good technique, good control, maintains good connection and you get better results. And the reason why, Adam, you know this, why people ignore that advice, is they don't realize that mobility

helps with fat loss and muscle gain. They think, oh, mobility's if I hurt, but I wanna do all this other stuff that builds muscle and body fat. They think it's like a waste of time or it's not gonna contribute to their main goal. It's the most important thing that contributes to your main goal.

It makes all the workouts, all the exercises that are effective, more effective, and of course, of course it prevents the massive roadblock of potential injury and pain. So when you're over 40, the emphasis has to be on proper mobility, priming, dynamic warmups, full range of motion, exercise, slow tempo and technique and connection over the amount of weight you move, for example. So mobility really is just an umbrella term that encompasses an emphasis on movement. That's it.

So when I am doing an exercise that I can do, if if I'm over 40 and I'm like, okay mobility super important well here I can add 10 pounds to the bar or I Can go down a little deeper and get better connection or I can hold the weight at the top and stabilize My core or I could slow down the tempo a little bit and make the technique that much more perfect That's what we mean by mobility. It's this emphasis on movement. And if you emphasize movement, you're gonna get way better results. Fat loss, muscle gain across the board.

I guess you could also talk about the benefit of aging in terms of really understanding your body and realizing which exercises move the needle the most and which to kind of prioritize which ones might be a little more high risk which ones might be a little less risk but like give you more benefit to it and so this is this is something to like as we age I know this has to play a factor in terms of like figuring out like that minimal viable dose and like kind of what Adam always describes with that

sort of mentality going into it like what can I do in terms of the least amount to give me the most? 100%. I would, okay, I've been a consistent lifter in my 20s. I've now been a consistent lifter in my 40s. I wouldn't trade any of the youth or whatever for my 20s for who I am in my 40s when it comes to lifting. Does that make sense? Like, even though I know that I could take more and I had more resiliency and more energy. You get better results now because

you know more. That's right. Like I like I'm way way in a better position today than I than I was back there for that exact reason. Like you just that there's a huge benefit and I'm glad you said because I feel like sometimes we we make make this aging thing such a disadvantage. It's like, oh, you're getting older, and this is where you start losing muscle, and testosterone goes down, and it's all this bad thing. It's like, no, if you've been putting the work in and learning all this and applying a lot of this stuff,

boy, it just gets way better as you get older. I mean, we train clients for a long time, and the majority of people that hire trainers tend to be in this age group or older, partially because they have the expendable income to hire a trainer. And I mean, the majority of my clients in their mid forties, late forties who worked with me consistently would make this comment, this is the best shape I've ever been in my entire life.

Even when they were athletes in their youth or whatever, they actually got in the best shape in this, at this time because everything was applied appropriately. So, so what's the point with this? Less is more. Now I'm going to oversimplify the muscle building, fat loss, body adapting process. I'm going to oversimplify it, but I think this illustrates what we're trying to explain. So imagine the signal to, to, let's use the,

the signal for building muscle. Imagine it as a light switch. It's either on or off. That's it. And I can flick it on or I can hammer it on and if I hammer it on I break the switch. Now my body has to fix the switch before it actually gets the signal. When you turn on a light you flick it on. That's it. It's on. The light is on. When you send the signal to build muscle you're done that's it you're done you've done what you need to do now the body is going to build anything above and beyond that just compromises your body's ability to adapt you actually get worse results in other words so you're doing more work not just not getting more results you're actually getting less results so you

have to be really smart and most people do way more than is necessary thus getting less results and of course, wasting time. So what does that look like for the average 40-something year old when it comes to strength training? Two days a week? When you become advanced, three days a week? That's it.

Like 90-something percent of people in their 40s who want to be fit and healthy, who have a normal life, three days a week of strength training is about as far as you're ever gonna need to or want to go, and that'll get you the best possible results. And I know there's those extreme cases of that 40-something year old's bodybuilder who trains five, six days a week.

That's an extreme case, and if you try to emulate what they do, not only are you not gonna get the results that they get, you'll get worse results than if you just train twice a week with much more intelligence. So less is more. Yeah, I think that gets even, that's even more of a point too with any sort of experience, right? I think two to three days a week takes a person from ground zero of never lifting before and 40 plus years old. That takes them plenty far. If you actually have, if you've invested

in building muscle previously, man, it does not take, and I'm being reminded of that as this whole thing unfolds, it's kind of interesting today, you know, son of a bitch, I overreached again, and you guys saw me before we started, I'm like foam rolling because my IT's fucked up I'm like a mess right now and And I'm like scratching my head. He's my god. I really didn't I mean I'm pressing the weight right now

But I haven't really increased the volume I went from the two exercises a day to like kind of an upper lower split and Then even then I'm only doing still like two three exercises for my legs in one workout It's not crazy, but it's like, Oh my God, I still over overreached. I still would have been better off kind of keeping it slow with the two day a week. And it's like, it's, it's interesting to me, uh, that I'm still learning this lesson. Uh, now, like it's like, wow, it's, it's unbelievable. And I don't know why, like, uh,

in this hurry to do more because the progress, obviously the progression I've been seeing is incredible, but yeah, even I struggle with that, right? Oh, I want more. 18 pounds of muscle in one month, isn't enough. Let's see if I can stretch out a little more. It's like, what am I thinking? Like, you know, cause this applies even to us.

And the more you've lifted in the past, like the less you even have to put towards it. In other words, it's true for everyone. Yes. The last one is to prioritize sleep. Now, let me just explain how impactful this is. If you took the typical out of shape, deconditioned, you know, 70%, 80% processed food diet, 46 year old, and all you did was fix their sleep.

All you did was give them optimal sleep where they're sleeping eight hours, deep sleep, good stages of sleep, the whole deal, right? If you just did that, here's what you would see. Fat loss, strength gain and better behaviors, less cravings, better mood, just from sleep, that's how powerful this is. And now people don't tend to focus on sleep until it's so bad that it messes everything up. So typically when someone says, Hey, I need to work on my sleep.

It's cause they're getting horrible sleep. But what people don't realize is if you get by with okay sleep, so like you're okay, you just need caffeine and I'm a little groggy, whatever. You take that person and you optimize their sleep, profound benefits. Now of course, if you're so sleep deprived that you just feel like you're a zombie, you're already prioritizing this. But to most people listening right now, if you're like, I'm okay, I need coffee in the morning and I wake up a couple times, whatever, not a big deal. Oh no, optimize your sleep, watch what happens to your gains. And there's, by the way, there's lots of studies on this.

One of my favorites, they took groups of people, controlled their calories and everything, put them on a calorie restricted diet. Everything was the same. One group got great sleep. The other group got not so great sleep. The not so great sleep group lost half the body fat and also lost more muscle. In other words, everything was the same except the sleep. And yet they got half the body fat and also lost more muscle. In other words, everything was the same except the sleep and yet they got half the results.

This is a big deal and I can't tell you how many times with clients we would just fix this one thing right here and all the other pieces would fall into place. You have to explain too though Sal, how this actually gets exacerbated too based off of other factors too. Meaning, getting bad sleep is already a game-killer already right and the study

points that out. But then you add in the other things that people do in common miss protein intake, way under eat their calories, way over train on volume and intensity. So that sleep already matters in the context of a good diet, good programming, balanced intensity volume, hitting protein intake. But that gets exacerbated when you also don't do those things, which is the common person. So I was trying to communicate that in my series about having a bad night's sleep. And I'm like, listen, if I had one night of bad sleep and I was scheduled to come work

out, not that big of a deal so long as I hit my protein intake, I balance my intensity in that workout a little bit and the volume of it. But when you, and then I'm also eating in a caloric surplus so I have plenty of calories, but flip that. Take that same scenario, oh I missed my protein intake, I'm low calorie and I'm going to get after my workout. Now that becomes a whole different situation. So it's like sleep alone makes this big of a difference. But what people don't realize too is like, oh like kind of a bad night of sleep with low protein, with calorie deficit, with over-applying intensity

workout now becomes a disaster. And this is what I think a lot of people don't realize they're doing. Imagine this picture, right? Like you're doing a few things that aren't so great for your health and fitness, so that's a fire. Now poor sleep, you just, you got bad sleep, you just literally poured a bunch of gasoline on it.

That's what it does. It makes things that aren't- Yeah, we're trying to put it out. You're exaggerating really. Oh, exaggerating it be above and beyond what it would have normally been. In other words, if it's at a five, and then you add poor sleep to it, it now became a 20.

Like not like a six, like it became a 20 because it affects your tolerance so much and it also affects your behaviors. Like simply getting good sleep leads to better eating behaviors. It leads to more consistency with your workouts. It leads to better technique. In fact, the greatest factor,

the one factor that is going to predict injury in a workout more than anything else is poor sleep. They did studies on this where it's like they did warmup, no warmup, priming, no priming, exercise of good form, bad form. The one thing that predicted injury more than anything else actually doubled the risk of injury was poor sleep. So it's that big of a deal. Dysfunction comes in.

And again, it doesn't sound sexy unless you're like so bad asleep that big of a deal dysfunction comes in and again It doesn't sound sexy unless you're like so bad asleep that you feel like a zombie if you're just like whatever I just want to burn body fat build muscle like this is why the fitness space doesn't talk about this way The industry doesn't talk about it because it's not sexy But I'm telling you right now when it comes to muscle gain and fat loss Almost nothing will impact your ability to do those things like your sleep and just going from okay to great sleep makes a huge difference. That's such a huge point because I think most people are in that category and it's like, it's,

they're not going to address it if it's not this alarming sense that like I'm not getting any sleep and it's pretty obvious that like I'm kind of walking throughout the day like a zombie and you know, it's something I, I need to address this, but like, if you have that sort of okay sleep where, where maybe let's say you're, you're missing like an hour and this just over time, like it just keeps adding up, it keeps adding up, um, to, to the point where now, you know, it's, it's, you're tolerating it and you're just kind of moving your way through, but if you

adjust and you, all of a sudden now you gain that extra hour of sleep, what that does to reset your hormones, to get your energy, to yeah, everything, it maximizes all your efforts. Totally, totally. All right, so I'm gonna change directions here. Did you guys see the new data on birth order, first born versus last born versus?

There's data in regards to what? There's new data. So Adam, you'll like this. Justin and Doug won't like this too much. So pretty consistently... It's a counter argument. Pretty consistently, now of course it's not true for everybody, but this is just trends, it's data.

It's just a majority. Objective numbers. It's just a majority. Nice setup. Nice setup in their own mind. I think they know that they're not gonna like this. the majority. The first borns consistently have a higher IQ than the second, third, and definitely the last. Written and reported by the first born. I can confirm this. Well there's some theories around this by the way. Yeah, what's the thought, what is the theory of why that is? Like how does order have anything to do with that? And is that something? So is,

is, is, is IQ something that, uh, that is socially influenced? It obviously is if that's the case, they're trying to make, right? It's not like something you're born with that IQ. You are. There's both. There's genetic and then there's that. So there's two, are two theories as to why one is the nature. So nature versus nurture, right? So one is the nurture argument, which is, well, mom had much more undivided attention and could focus on this one child and they could, you know,

communicate to them that they weren't so busy. Like if you have three kids, the third one, you're busy, right? So you can't spend as much time on them. So there's that. Then there's also the nature argument, which is that the, so you can't spend as much time on them. So there's that, then there's also the nature argument which is that the, and you see this more pronounced when there's small age gaps. So when it's like mom has one kid,

a year later has another one, a year later has another one. It's like, her body becomes, the nutrients that she delivers to the baby become hampered because it's such a demanding process. Oh, interesting. It doesn't give her a full time to like fully recover and come back. Correct, because when you see a larger gap, then you start to see less of that.

So it's both, they believe, that are playing a role in that, the undivided attention and then, you know. Oh, I should apologize to my sister. Not getting it, but. I'm sorry, sis sis you took all the nutrients that's like the Danny DeVito's Arnold Schwarzenegger theory yeah yeah yeah what a great movie that was classic so you know it's funny about this is it went viral because it was like oldest you know firstborn last born whatever it went

viral I know exactly why because every firstborn I want to see like statistics on who's more successful though I think it's firstborn is it yeah yeah that's not going your way either jail it was another one to be in jail. There was another one that was in there. Oh, OK. Be in trouble. So Justin, we're doing well. We're more violent. You guys are sweeter.

No, you guys are nicer, sweeter, more sensitive. You guys definitely put their trouble on that. If we look at creativity, there may be some interesting things about that. I think I actually do think that. Yeah, right brain, left brain, I think it's. I do think there is stuff around creativity. You have to come up.

Because when you're being ignored, you have to You gotta make your own friends. Yeah imaginary maybe you have to be creative to think of solutions to things that you just can't figure out Why would I do that? Oh, I don't know. I would send it to mine. I would totally do that. They wouldn't understand it anyway. No, I'm just kidding. I see you said it to them.

I'm not sure you guys would understand this or not. Let me break it down for you, because I know you won't understand the study. No, that's it. But no, it was going viral. And by the way, there's a kid. Just so you guys, I'm obviously poking at you. There's studies that show this doesn't exist or whatever.

But this was one that shows it exists. And it went viral. And I'm looking at it, I'm like, I don't know why this is going viral. Every first board is saying this to their siblings. Now, remind me what your age gap is with your brother. What's your age gap with your brother? So it's, it goes boy, girl, boy, girl. Yeah, I know, I know, your sister's next.

It's four years between me and my sister, and then it's two, two. Oh, so your brother's six years younger than you. Okay, so he's probably, so what I was asking is I was gonna ask if there was any competitiveness with him but with six years he probably wasn't. Oh there still is a little bit. I actually probably more as an adult

than there was when you were a kid. Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. But I'll 100% say this, he got the physical genetics for sure, he's much bigger, much stronger, much faster naturally than I ever would be. He knows this. I don't know.

Do you remember at what age you started to see a competitive side with him? Like he started to feel like he was competitive with you? Do you remember? How far back does it go? It makes sense. At six years, if I had to guess, it probably wouldn't have happened until almost 20, 20 something years old. Because now at 20 he sees himself as an adult.

You've already been an adult for a while and now it becomes more of a like a... You know, the truth be told, we have a fun competitive side where we mess with each other, but he's such a... His nickname is Joker because he's always smiling, always laughing, always having a good time, always fun. So unless I poke at him on purpose, then he can get a little mad and then he gets a little heated between us. But, and that's, I think just older brother,

I was probably an asshole when we were growing up because I was the oldest of these little kids. And I was given way too much authority, mom. Way too much authority. You know, you don't give a 10 year old the authority to ground their siblings because you don't know how to handle that. You know, it's crazy. You say that. Cause when you bring that up, it reminds me of, um, so my mom,

and they haven't ever recovered from that. So my, my uncle, uh, which is her older brother, um, my grandmother worked, uh, two shifts seven days a week. Like he pretty much raised my mom and they hate each other That's a bad situation Yeah And like this so I know like you guys worked it out like you figured it out like your siblings and you have a good relationship But that that is 12 year old in charge of other kids and you give them the authority to ground them In some cases, you know even corporal punishment with some families like a 12 year old is not a handle that

So you end up becoming a tyrant? Yeah, and it's wild because when I hear my mom communicate, it's like she cannot, she can't get past it still. I mean, to this day, she's 60 something years old and she still sees, exactly. She still sees him as this oppressive older brother who hated her and punished her for all these reasons. And he got to do whatever he wanted and was this bad kid. And it's like, really, and obviously

my grandmother's mistake, right? Of like empowering him to be that way. And then it's unfortunate because even today they haven't been able to mend that from, from childhood. Back in the day, that's how it was though, huh? You have nine kids. Super common. How you like, you have to have. Well, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, and in my grandmother's defense, I mean, what do you do? She's working two shifts a day, seven days a week. You can't man all that. Single woman raising, raising two kids by herself. What was she supposed you do? She's working two shifts a day, seven days a week, single woman raising two kids by herself. What was she supposed to do? Right, it was like the only option.

And so it's unfortunate though, because of how detrimental. Doug, what's the distance, years between you and your brother? Six years. Okay, so- Are you second or third? No, I'm fourth.

Oh, you are the youngest. I'm the dumbest of them all. Yeah. Hey, they must be brilliant, because you're pretty smart. They must be absolutely brilliant. So my oldest sister's 12 years older than me, then I have a 10-year-old sister than my brother.

Oh, wait a minute. You're the youngest, but six years apart from the second youngest or whatever. Yes. So you're an accident. Yeah. Might say that. So I actually assume that you and your brother

were closer in age because I know there's a little bit of that competitiveness that you have with him. Probably me being more competitive with him than him with me. Oh, I bet. I bet he didn't even see you. He probably just thought. If you're 16, you're not looking at your 10-year-old brother

being like, yeah, I'm gonna punk you. He's not thinking like that. You might be going like, I wanna try and catch up to him. He's just like, don't touch my stuff. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Put my records down. Yeah might be going like I want to touch my stuff. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, put my records down. Yeah, exactly all that stuff And then you're how many years apart and is it just you two? It's just us two. Yeah Oh, it was very competitive. You guys were so close in age. Yeah, probably the whole time

Yeah, and like you said like I had the physical like and that that kind of shifted I think it was when I was like 10 or so all of a sudden like I got Stronger than him and then it was like you don't fucking get to tell you what to do And then that was it the power the power the power shifted like real fast Yeah, I had a cousin like that dude. He was older than me and he would punk me when I was little and Then I started going through, you know puberty and getting bigger I'm working out and I remember there was was one time when he tried to punk me and I was like, oh, this is the last time

you're gonna do that. And I thought back. That's funny. Oh, that was it. After that he ignored me. I have a same story. What a wonderful feeling that was. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Because when you're a kid and someone's bullying you, you're like, you dreamed about it. That was my cousin too. I had a cousin that all through junior high, even early years of high school was always fucking with me and some of that. And then like back half high school year. And then definitely afterwards was way, way bigger than that. Fix that real quick.

Yeah. So older, older kids be cool with the younger ones. Yeah. It was all right though. It was like, we had that kind of moment and there was a lot of like, like physical fight stuff. We got through that and then we became friends. And then I was like, it it was I was in a weird position because It was like high school I was always looking out for him because like he was getting punked because he was on the dorky side of the the fence and looked a lot like screech, you know from say by the bell and like people used to punk them for that and I'm like You know like and so I was always sort of like

Looking out for him and then getting in fights with guys way older than me, uh, and getting my ass kicked. But it was like, I don't know, it was, it was, it was a weird, it was a different dynamic than I think most people would, would think. My, my best friend who you guys know of his, his little brother was that. So they, he was two years younger than him. And it was so funny, because my buddy, we didn't get into a lot of fights, but my best friend was just kind of chill, passive, not looking to do stuff like that. Easily somebody could talk shit to him,

and he would just be like, oh, it's okay, no big deal. But his little brother, two years younger, was just a spitfire, always in trouble, always getting in fights. And so he would bring him along to parties and stuff like that, and he always, if somebody like talk shit, even just stared at my buddy, you know, throwing his little brother, hypervigilance. Yes. His little brother come running over and just punch a guy

out of nowhere. And then I went through a phase of that. Yeah. Yeah. It got to a point where I actually tell him, bro, you can't bring your brother with start going to our parties, dude. We can't, cause I don't know what he's going to do. I don't know him and his friends are going to fight our friends. You'd have to connect them with a girl, get them out of the way. Yes. Yeah. That was the, that's always, that's always the high school formula, right? Get them hooked up. My brother was just, he's just like, he's a happy-go-lucky kid, but as he started to get older,

when I started managing gym, so I'm, let's see, 18, so he's 12, 12 or 13, right? So he's a kid. He'd come in to work out, and I would call, I'll never forget, what was his name? I had this trainer that worked for me, this jacked, like bodybuilder trainer. Can't remember his name right now, black dude, I can't remember his name. And a big guy. And I remember my brother comes in to work out. He's a skinny 13 year old kid, you know? And he's like, oh, is that your brother? Cause we look alike. And he goes and works out. And I'm like, I bet you,

my brother can beat you in arm wrestling. He started laughing. He's a skinny 13-year-old, so I called him over and paged my brother, and my brother beat him in arm wrestling for the whole staff. It was so, yeah. There was a period of time, how old were you guys? Because there was a period of time when I first met you or seen you at the company, and then I'd see your brother

and I thought you guys were the same person. So there was a period of time where you guys looked a lot of like, there's something about us that people can tell. I get stopped. Oh yeah. Profile. Oh yeah. You guys look. I mean, I don't feel like self-conscious. We just made that up. I didn't even have that. I didn't even have that insecurity telling you guys.

I know. I think Justin made it up first. I did. I think Justin said it first. I'm good at that. I just doubled down on it. I like to make people insecure. But I guess maybe because I know you so well now, I don't see it at all.

But I remember when I first met you in the company and then I would see him, I'd be like, wait a second. What's he doing over here? And I totally thought you guys were the same. So you guys definitely look enough that if you don't know you really well that yeah him and my sister inherited my dad's genes Cuz my sister obviously being a girl I would have her arm wrestle my friends in high school She beat them she sees and she's still like that. She's still she's a workout or anything But if you if she were here I'd have her arm wrestle just so you can feel the power that girl has

It's get me though. I didn't get those. Yeah, that's good stuff. Honestly though that, so I mean, I mean, I always think about stuff with that too though, probably, uh, you know, to the advantage, right? It probably made you obsessive work extra hard, like because you didn't have that advantage, you had to work extra hard. I mean, at least that's how I feel about myself. The things that others would call

disadvantage or unfortunate or whatever. Superpowers. Yeah, I think that's the thing. We had this big talk with my Hampton group. Everybody is on different sides of the aisle, politically and stuff like that. And they're all very intelligent, so really good. Nice discussions.

Very good discussions. And everyone's become really close friends, and so we can actually have some really good and they're all very intelligent. So really good. Nice discussions. Very, very good discussions. Everyone's become really close friends. And so we can actually have some really good disagreements on stuff like that. And, you know, there's a couple of us that have a, a pretty challenging upbringing. And so it was interesting to hear the, the thoughts around privilege and all this.

And I'm like, you know, it's really interesting how society, we use this whole thing around, we make everything about reaching a dollar amount. That's the ultimate, the advantage in life is to be privileged for connections, you can make more money and be more wealthy and more. And it's like, who decided that? Who decided that that's the ultimate goal and the ultimate privilege is to have the most access to money? I don't know if I agree with that.

In fact, I think developing one's character is probably one of the most privileged things. Like having a good character is probably one of the most greatest advantages that you could ever have. And then I would make the case and argument that, well, where does your character get the most built? Is it in situations that everything's laid up for you and you get every door opens and daddy connects you and you start the middle of the race.

And so the beginning, I would make the case that, um, I had to build way more character by having all these obstacles and disadvantages in looking back now and realizing that money isn't everything. And if it is about developing one's character that, oh man, I think maybe I was set up for the advantage, but, oh boy, that's a real, I had a real interesting conversation to get into. You know what it reminds me of?

I used to have, back in the day when I used to train a lot of doctors and surgeons, one of them was a woman. And let's see, at the time, I think she was in her early 60s. So this was maybe 18 years ago or so. And I would train other surgeons that would talk about her. And they would all talk about her like she was. And she was, she was well known as being one of the best surgeons, not just in the area, but anywhere in the US.

And I remember one of them explaining to me and said, you know Sal, the fact that she's a woman, she came up when she did, at those times, there was lots of, I mean, female surgeon was hard to find and oh, you're coming up in this male dominated space. He's like, the fact that she came up and did it alone already self-selects her to be a freaking badass because she had to be that much better just to make it through and so and she would say that that it was an advantage that she came into this

and she felt the she felt the you know people looking at her like oh can you do this and it made her she was incredible as a result so I agree with you I think those disadvantages I think your, if you have the right mindset, you're in for some training that's gonna make you, it's gonna give you advantage. Especially if your measurement in life around success isn't solely tied to a dollar amount. Because you can make the case all day long, like if a billionaire son is gonna have so many other doors open and the likelihood that he could become a centimillionaire or billionaire is much higher, right?

Because he gets to start way over here and the connections he makes, like, okay, that's a total, I don't disagree with that. But then did he win at life because he made a billion and maybe I only made a million? You know, like, did he win more life because of the dollar amount? I don't know. I don't necessarily think that's the, did he win more life because of the dollar amount? I don't know. I don't necessarily think that's the, I mean, I don't define success that way. And so if you don't define success that way,

well then how do you define it? Well, I would think it would be developing myself into this incredible character that then can pass those traits down to my son who can become an even better character than I was. I would say that's probably a winning or success in life. Well, that's the data's clear on that. Arthur Brooks explains that.

That because it's a kind of consumer-based society, we have placed, you know, access to stuff we've placed at the top. That's the ultimate value, and the data's clear. That is not what brings you happiness. There's a minimum, right, you gotta have your basic needs met and all that stuff. Once you surpass that, there's other, that is not what brings you happiness. There's a minimum, you gotta have your basic needs met and all that stuff, once you surpass that, there's other things that are,

like if you don't have food, shelter, transportation, like okay, that's a problem. Once you get beyond that, it's not gonna bring you that much more value. You think it will, but it doesn't. I would even make the case there's a bit of misery that comes with it. So the weekend before, I was with all my car buddies, right?

And one of the guys had it his dad died and passed him down, you know, five hundred million dollars Wow, okay Like and an income still like so just an infinite an infinite amount of money Yeah, and this dude has every car you could think of every new crazy hyper car that comes out, that's millions of dollars. He's got them on order at all times. He's got five cars coming and just like, doesn't even look like he really cares or enjoys it. It's like, he's constantly, he needs that. The new, I think myself like, wow, like I have such an appreciation of,

of my little cars because of how hard I worked to get to that. Like it's, and I, it's like a different, I feel like he's been robbed of that, that something I get to have. Like it's, and I, it's like a different, I feel like he's been robbed of that, that something I get to have. And it's like, he has way more than me. Imagine playing a video game and you don't go through all the levels or every go to the end, you go to the end credits. You won, you just turn it on.

You won end credits. This sucks. This game sucks. I don't care. Like it doesn't, that's my point is that like half of also is the struggle of the, I can't and I'm reaching and I'm driving towards something and then it took a long time to get there and then I finally get a taste a little bit of it

and it's like whoa, do I appreciate it? And whoa, am I so happy and grateful for it? Versus the kid who has way ahead and got the windfall and is just like I actually feel bad for him. Yet he has way more than me but I feel bad for him because He doesn't have the same appreciation and love for the things that he has and so it's why they show Children from wealthy parents that do well. It's because their parents have them go out and volunteer a lot That's the thing that they do. They have to go out and volunteer and do truly appreciate

Yes, where they're and they do better the kids that just get their stuff given to them There's a there's a word for it, it's called spoiled. We know what that means. And it does, it spoils a person, spoils a character. Yeah, it's crazy too, because I feel bad for the, you know, what happens to a lot of parents, and I know that if I would have been a young dad, this would have happened to me,

because in my 20s, there's a part of you, when you come from that, that you're still- Oh, you would have put your insecurities on it. I would have put my insecurities right back on my kid. Um, thinking, and also wrapping it in the, I'm doing what's best for him. Right? I mean, how many times have you heard that? Like I work so hard, so my kids didn't have to go through what I had or what

I like that. And so then you- So they have the best clothes, the best car. Right. So the best clothes, the best everything. And so then you overcompensate that way. Thinking you're doing all this out of love and because you wanna help them, you don't want them to go, but what you don't realize is you're robbing them.

You're actually robbing them and making it, you're setting them up for a worse situation, but you're doing it out of a place coming from love, but you think it's coming from love, it's really coming from insecurity. Yeah, fear. All right, fear of what you didn't have, and so, I don't know, it's just a,

I love, we had a really deep conversation around all that stuff and it's really interesting because there's such a very diverse group of not only on political aisles, but some of us came from nothing, some of us came from very wealthy families and so pretty interesting to hear. It's interesting too, yeah,

because I mean even like that concept of spoiling your kids, like anybody can spoil their kids, you know, anybody can provide them with that mentality and pass it on, you know, regardless of their economic status. And so it's like, you know, like just addressing that for what it is. And like, this is why I have like, my own qualms about like things like, you know, like the trophy, everybody gets a trophy, like everybody gets this, like everybody just gets provided these,

like we're spoiling kids. We're robbing them of that drive, that purpose. That struggle that builds that character, that leads towards, you know, enriching them to pursue that purpose and to have that kind of meaningful life. What a good point, Justin, because I know there's some people that tune out because they're like, oh, I'm not rich, so I can't, I'm not spoiling my kid, but you

absolutely still can. Katrina and I always remind ourselves, and I know Jordan Peterson is famous for saying it, like the worst thing that you could ever do to your kids is to do something for them they can do themselves. That they can do for themselves, yeah. And so, and that's, and it's really easy to get caught up in that. I mean, we're definitely guilty of catching. Especially because sometimes you might have good intentions, but it's just faster to do it yourself. That's right.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Like Katrina and I, this is a regular conversation that we always remind ourselves, like, gosh dang it, you know what, there's one of those situations where, you know, what am I doing doing that? Like, he can do that, like let him do it. Be patient, who cares if it takes a little longer, if he messes up, like we gotta stop doing that.

So you got real easily that can get away from you if you don't continually remind yourself, and it's not just monetary, because that's easy, right? It's real easy, oh, just don't spend all the money, or you don't have money to spend on them, so then you can automatically go, oh, I'm not spoiling my kid.

Oh, you still can, you absolutely still can. If you're doing the little things for them still that they could potentially do themselves, you're robbing them of that for sure in spoiler room. All right, so I wanted to talk about one of our partners Organifi. They have this starter pack where you can go, you get the red and green juice together.

I used to call this, you guys remember what I called this back in the day? The Christmas blend. The Christmas blend. Oh, I was gonna say Kermit, but yeah. No, that's what you called this back in the day? The Christmas blend. The Christmas blend. Oh, I was gonna say Kermit, but yeah. No, that's what you called me, because you said it sounded like Kermit.

What are you talking about? Thanks, so red juice, good for energy. Green juice, great for gut health and kind of that parasympathetic, like relax the body. Great to get to either take together or red juice in the morning, green juice at night. I used to do that, I saw the starter pack, I'm gonna do that again. They also. So great, red in the morning, green at at night. I used to do that, I saw the starter pack, I'm gonna do that again.

They also- So great. Red in the morning, green at night, it's just a great balance. Starter pack is cool too, because it also includes magnesium, which we've talked about, you know, over 60% of the population is deficient in magnesium. And if you've never supplemented with magnesium

to see if it makes a difference on your sleep, it's one of those things you'll feel instantly. And then also, I think they throw a shaker cup in there too, is that right, Doug? It's seven days where you can do green juice and red juice so you could try that alternating thing that I said. Yeah. Plus you get 30 days of the magnesium and then you get the shaker. What would you say the thing that you feel the most in the green juice would you say it is the

all the different vitamins that you're getting there or would you say it's something like ashwagandha that you're gonna feel the most in there? I know everybody wants to. That's a good question because I've supplemented separately with ashwagandha. I love ashwagandha. The green juice, it might be just the combination of things. It's a really nice, how do I explain this? It's a calm, it's a calm feeling.

And not sleepy, I don't get sleepy or anything like that. No, no, no, no, it's energy. It's a nice calm focus. The red juice is a little stimulating. So red juice would be like your pre-workout, although it's not, there's no caffeine, so it's nothing like that. But red juice is more like up. Green juice is a little stimulating. So red juice would be like your pre-workout, although it's not, there's no caffeine, so it's nothing like that. But red juice is more like up.

Green juice is a little bit more chill. So it's a nice balance. Yeah, red juice has always been, ever since we got introduced to it, it's been the go-to move for me any time that I'm trying to come back off of caffeine. You replace it with that. I replace it with that because it gives me

that feeling of energy, but it takes out the jittery and the caffeine addiction part of it. It's a perfect segue for somebody that's ever trying to do that. We talk a lot about this on the show, right? We all have limits that we push ourselves caffeine. When we hit that limit, we start to taper back. When I taper back, I just replace those caffeine drinks

with the red juice and it's like, worth perfect. You know, I was actually, Justin, I thought about you the other day on this particular fitness article. So I was reading this fitness article on training an area that nobody exercises or trains unless you play football or you wrestle, the neck. Oh yeah. Nobody trains and strengthens the muscles of the neck. And it made me realize what a, I think it's important to strengthen the entire body. I don't think you need to necessarily train

your neck like a football player or wrestler, but having a strong neck, especially if you work a desk job can contribute quite a bit to that, that spinal stability, especially up here in the, in the cervical area. Sure. Prevent neck pain. Neck, upper back pain.

Upper back pain, all that stuff. I was, in fact, the article, you know who they highlighted in the article? Mike Tyson. Okay, so Mike Tyson used to do 300 every day, neck bridges, forward and back. 300? He was one of the first boxers to specifically,

he had a 19 inch neck. Oh my God. By the time he was 19 years old. Now boxers figured- I didn't know it was that big. Oh yeah, Do pull up, uh, Mike Tyson neck training. There's a picture of his neck and they, they put a tape measure around it. He's, he was a beast.

The boxers started to figure out to train their neck cause it made it harder to knock them out because it just stabilized the head. Football players, of course, you guys were the first ones you wear. Right. Yes. Helmet. Yeah. And that, that was part of it is just wearing the helmet and the constant load there. But, but two, I mean, we would do isometric and partner drills like that too, where we'd push against, like overcoming isometrics. And, and I found it very helpful. And yes, it, I mean, it was crucial because of the concussion and the potential like impingements and things that we would experience with that but like for your average person I mean it's huge and it is totally overlooked. Yeah there he is right there doing it. Now he learned this is a

wrestler exercise that he would do. Yeah so this makes for a perfect transition is something that I had been meaning to bring up to you guys and I had forgot about it in mine for a little bit different reason, but I've been thinking about just the posture in kids, you know, with iPhones and iPads and the forward head, like crazy, and I was like, you know what is probably one of the most underrated movements that I, especially that I'm doing right now, and that I'm like, you know,

we just don't talk a lot about. I also remember when I was a trainer, I thought it was stupid, and I look back now, I'm like, again, I was stupid, not the movement, for not doing this more often. It's promcobras. Yeah. Such a basic, simple movement. Remember when you know you always argue with me

when I try to put in a program? What do you guys do? It's great. Every time I try to put in a program. Do you have a promcobra at that? Yeah, I always think promcobra, you guys make fun of me. Anti-everyday stress, or everyday posture movement. It is. It's excellent.

It's just so underrated for what everybody should be doing on a regular basis. Everybody can do it. Yeah. It's like one of those movements that's valuable. It's like the antidote to everyday stress. Especially the rotation of the hands and the, yes. Yeah, and pulling back and down the scapula like that. Back to the neck exercise.

The neck, the neck, the neck. Yes. I think neck exercise, here's why a lot of people don't do neck exercise. First off, I think it's funny when you're a bodybuilder and you have a pencil neck. Sometimes I see that and it's silly to me. It looks weird to me. It looks like a little bobble head. But besides that, I think people can,

they don't think about training their neck, but women in particular are afraid of getting this massive neck. Don't worry about it, just like other body parts. It's not gonna happen, but it will strengthen the neck and alleviate, oftentimes, tension, headaches, and neck pain, and we never train that area. So upper back, we train that, we strengthen that,

neck has to be a part of it, because you look at the forward head, what are these called, sternocleumatoid muscles? Tight and weak extenders here at the back of the neck, and so strengthening those really will help with that posture. And talk about like, man, we've talked about this before, like how many times you guys have had a client who,

you know, needs to lose weight and then they have poor posture and then you just put them in good posture. They look like they lost 10, 15 pounds right away just by standing upright. I feel the same is like when you see someone with that awful like Rounded and way protruding forward head like you that that person's physique

Looks a million times better just getting them upright like just teaching them to do that And I just think that's getting worse and worse with these kids because they're born now with these iPhones and it just they're so It's funny bringing that up though, too. Cuz like a lot of I've read, and I'm really into the old timey lifters and what they used to do. So they used to train their massagers a lot as well. And a lot of what they did, they do neck training, but also too, they would have jaw, and they would bite down on something with chains. It was part of their act.

It's all connected. Really mean, really the kinetic chain, like if you go all the way up, like you need to like extend that up through the neck and even into the jaw. You know, it's for maximal output. You want to know what's funny, Justin? So my grandfather, my dad's side, he was known for being strong, right? So it's like this family thing and they have this old chair that they got rid of finally. But when I was a kid, I went there, they showed me this chair. It had these bite marks on the back.

My grandfather used to impress his friends by lifting this chair with his teeth. He would bite it and he'd lift it with his neck. That's rad. To show how strong it is. That's funny. Yeah. Is that funny? But back in the day, strong men, that was one of the things they would do is they would hold things in their teeth, bend bars and do all kinds of different.

I'm actually surprised, because even with the powerlifting community, I'm surprised I don't see that as a component, because I guarantee that would translate very well back into your overall maximal output. So there's studies that, so this is gonna get weird, but it's true, I've seen studies where people will wear a particular type of mouthpiece. Yeah that they can bite into and in

Grit and sometimes you see lifters where you see that sometimes it's very rare, but you'll see it increases their power output Uh-huh, they can actually lift more weight I mean it makes sense to talk about the studies before you take somebody who's squeezing something Right and they relax the rest their body and then you tell them to tense everything up I mean, it's a significant difference on I mean, that's something everybody who's listening can test right now I mean ball your fists up as hard as you can in your left hand or right hand and relax the whole other side Completely and then tense it up and then both give you yeah, and then watch how much more power you get You know huge difference. I was gonna ask you Adam. You stopped the GLP one a few weeks ago

Yeah, have you noticed any changes in your skin? Because you noticed that when you're on it, your psoriasis had come way down. Is any of it coming back? So interesting you brought that up. All the way up until just a week ago, I would have said no, no difference. But I'm back, I'm running a mini-bulk right now.

And now that I'm in a surplus, I had my first couple flare-up. In fact, it's been really nice. It's been almost, God, how many months now? Three, four months. I was just thinking about this. It's funny you brought this up, because I had my first moment of like, oh, wow, I went to itch it.

And I'm like, I hadn't itched my psoriasis in four months. And I went, what? And then I went, oh, wow. Well, two things. One, I've had alcohol in the last like a couple of weeks, last two weeks, I've drank alcohol. And in addition to that, I've been in a calorie surplus. And now all of a sudden I feel it. Luckily, it's not bad. And, you know,

and when that happens for me now, like, I mean, I'm just, Caldera is my go-to, like that's using something natural that I can just rub on there real easy. Like, so it like so that right away tamps it down and then I'm fine. And then obviously, but the diet is first, like it's not like, I mean- Have you tried removing dairy? Because I'm wondering if dairy's mildly inflammatory to you. I mean- And in a surplus,

your gut starts to get a little- So that's potential, right? But dairy doesn't bother me definitely in a deficit or maintenance. So maybe, I mean, this is what's so interesting and why this is how this is by the way this is a good conversation people understand when these things can bother you sometimes not always and that's both true so in a surplus you could be causing a little gut inflammation a little more spacing

exaggerating gas then you get something that me mildly annoying or irritating to the body you can't really tell now becomes more So this is was always my point around the GLP one like I never thought the GLP one had something magical in it That I know that they've they've attached some stuff that shows that there might be something going on Yeah, autoimmune I get I get it, but I always contributed to the low calorie I'm in such a low calorie, because I could eat some of these things and then just not bother me. And even as I was starting to increase it, like to, you know, 2,426 and 2,800 calories, still had some of these things get introduced there. I wasn't eating perfectly clean.

I was having dairy here and there. I was having some sugar stuff, like not crazy or nothing. But then as I started to push beyond 3,400 calories, I started to get higher on my calories. Then all of a sudden I noticed that and then I, and then, so, and, and calorie surplus by itself isn't enough to cause the problem. A calorie surplus with these foods like alcohol or sugar, like, or the, or dairy seem to flare it up a little bit. So it'll be like, interesting. I'm going to go back to a mini cut real soon. So back to the caldera for people like, what's that? So caldera, I use the serum by the way. It's a serum. It's like a skin oil,

but the way that it's formulated is it's designed to balance out the microbiome microbiome on the skin. Uh, and also, it also works with your body's natural ways of healing. So oily skin, dry skin, regardless of the kind of skin you have, the serum balances things out. So we'll get messages from people, oily skin, that love it. I have oily skin, I love it. People with dry skin, Justin's more on the dry side,

he loves it. So it's not a synthetic product, it's the botanicals in there do that, they balance out. Obviously, when I travel, I always travel with all of it too, so it's always with me, or it's here at the studio. Everywhere I go, I have it for that exact reason. And my Hampton Group buddies, one of the guys has psoriasis, and so I actually gave him my bottles

and introduced it to him, and he was like super impressed with like, oh wow, this is great. He thought it had something in it, I'm him like no, that's the beauty of this. That's not an official thing from Calder everybody So it's not supposed to be oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I can't claim you that's your own personal experience It's just for skin probably not supposed to use on my feet either, but that's a big no I think you can yeah why is it like on my heels especially crack all time and it's been yeah making an impact there Yeah, anywhere where they're I mean that's what's rice is you have this kind of scabby dry skin area all the time. And it's been, yeah, making an impact there. Yeah, anywhere where there, I mean, that's what's arises. You have this kind of scabby dry skin area and that's really like, it's not healing it.

I'm not claiming there's any properties in it. That's just your experience with it. It's just what I noticed. And if I wasn't doing that, I was doing those like cortisone cream stuff, you know? And that's not, I know that's not ideal. And I was noticing the same or better benefits with just the caldera. And I know that's not ideal. And I was noticing the same or better benefits with just the caldera.

And I know that's all natural stuff. And so I'm like, that just has become my go-to. It's like I don't even use any of my original stuff from the dermatologist. I'm like, I'd way rather use something like that. Two times now, when I'm at the gym, when I go to the country club one where I'm showering and I'm in the, you know, afterwards I'm putting stuff.

Two times, separate times it happens. Some guys like, hey, what are you doing? You have really good skin. I was like, cool, that's never happened to me before. It's happened two separate times. Can I touch it? No. I mean, you notice it right away,

so that's what's kind of cool. And the bottle, by the way, lasts a really long time. So, one of the other guys that, so there was a couple of these guys that I was with, and one of the other guy already uses it, but he uses it just for his skin. He's like, man, he's like, at first I was like, that's kind of expensive, but then when I bought the bottle,

I didn't realize how long that it lasts. I'm like, yeah, I know, I thought the exact same thing when we officially started working with him. I'm like, damn, that's pretty expensive. You're gonna have to find a guy who really cares about his skin to spend that kind of money. But then you realize like, oh shit, like this stuff really goes.

Two drops. Oh yeah, it goes a really long way, so. Do we have a shout out? I do. I want to shout out our buddy Brad Jensen who we're about to interview right now. So the sober bodybuilder He's got great content You know, he's part of our circle of friends that you know We're recovering addicts and if like turn their life around for a really long time and have done a lot of really good stuff

He's got really good content. He's been a big fan of us and the show for a long time. And this will be the first time that he comes on our show. So if you're not already following him, he's on Instagram, he's the sober bodybuilder. Paleo Valley has the best tasting protein powder I've ever had in my entire life. It's their chocolate bone broth. It tastes like chocolate donuts.

By the way, this protein is super easy to digest. If you can't have dairy, if other protein powders make you feel bloated, whatever, this will feel like water. It's high quality collagen protein bone broth chocolate. Right now if you buy one, you get one for free. Go to paleovalley.com forward slash mind pump. Alright, back to the show. First question is from Amelia Heartline. How do you gauge appropriate workout intensity? I never get sore, but I have a feeling my workouts are too intense as I have overtraining symptoms.

How do you gauge the appropriate dose because I'm scared of doing too little? Yeah, this is a great question. Is it possible to do too little? Yeah, I was gonna say, start by doing less than what you just did. Yeah. I mean, if you keep doing what you're doing, which may be nothing, then yeah, nothing will change.

But more than that, we'll do something. So one of the things I think that's so important, and I loved when we first shared this study, because it was even mind-blowing for me, even though I knew this, not to this extent, was the amount of training volume you need to keep your current gains is like one-seventh. Yeah. So let's pretend even the best studies show one-third. Right. That's the ones that show the most. So if you trained every day for one hour, so seven

days a week, and your body's at a certain point right now, you literally could train one day for one hour to maintain that. Put that in perspective. So you backing off a few exercises in a workout every time you work out or more or cutting it in half is not gonna make you atrophy or go back the other way. If anything, it potentially is gonna get closer

to the appropriate dose and you might see yourself go the other direction. So the hard thing with intensity is trying to quantify it. Well, first off, how do you quantify intensity? There's either I do an exercise so I can't move anymore or I do nothing. How do I quantify all that's in the middle? How do I know if it's appropriate?

And there's lots of people that have tried to do this. And I think the most, in my experience, the most accurate way to decide this for yourself because this is also a moving target. What may be appropriate intensity today, maybe too much tomorrow, maybe less than appropriate the day after depending on sleep and mood and your diet and your age and because your life changes, you change, you're different every single day, you're definitely different every month or every year. So how do I gauge this? This is a good question.

In my experience, the best way to do this is the following. Number one, do I feel better at the end of my workout than I did at the beginning? If you feel better at the end, if you feel more energized, if you feel more invigorated, if you feel more mobile, not exhausted, not like I'm crawling out, not like I'm gonna throw up, not like I need to take a nap, but rather I feel like I actually have more energy. I actually feel like my mood is better. I feel like I can move better. That's one. The second one involves soreness. Now soreness isn't gonna tell you much other than you did too much. If you're really sore, and the way I define that is

you're sore for more than a day or sore to the touch, you definitely did too much. Now does not being sore mean you're doing the appropriate amount? No. And I'll tell you guys a personal story. The most over-trained I ever got in my entire life was when I got no soreness. Actually at one point for some reason thought I'm going to, no matter what, train a double split routine the way Arnold used to do this. I did this in my 20s. I'm like, I'm going to do this. And what I noticed right away were at first I got really sore and then I had no sore. I just didn't get sore doing this workout, but my strength kept going down and all the signs of overtraining kept going up, but I didn't get sore. So soreness doesn't necessarily tell you much,

except for maybe that you're doing too much. And then look at this, are you progressing? What do I mean by that? Are you stronger? Are you able to do the exercises more effectively? Is the quality of life improving? Do you have more energy for other activities? How was your sleep?

Those will all tell you that you're doing the right amount. And then finally consider this, if you look at all of your sleep, those will all tell you that you're doing the right amount. And then finally consider this, if you look at all of your training, 90% of it is going to be cruising. 10% of it is sprinting. So, and that's, and that's even for fitness fanatics, even for people are super fit. If you really look at their training, they really only go super hard. I mean, even athletes is what they're finding in terms of the most effective approach.

It's way less in terms of intensity than you'd think. And it's funny because a lot of people have tried to put metrics to this. They've tried to attach devices and HRV. They've really tried hard to crack the code. And it's, to your point, it's really, it's just like, if you can be disciplined enough to stop before it's like, I don't have any more, like I expended it all

within that exercise, like just that one mentality alone, I think is gonna take you a lot further. This is a good example for whoever this is that's asking this, you should own MAPS 15, and you should revisit this every time you have this situation. So, and the reason why I say that is because even with all the advice that Sal gave, I think he'd be the first one to admit, as I would admit too, that I still tend to overreach.

Because so you're talking about people that have been doing this for a really long time, have a really good gauge, yet we still tend to do this. One of the best ways that I teach myself this is by switching to a program like Maps 15 and having that aha moment of, holy shit, I just cut my volume down by like 80% and I'm literally getting better results. I look better, I feel better, I'm stronger, like that's a duh. So follow it. If you're not sure and you're trying to figure it out, take whatever program you're doing right now, scrap it for 30 days, follow a MAPS 15 protocol,

which I'm guessing is gonna be significantly less. 80% of people listening to this will do best with something like this. Yes, and I bet you, you see at the bare minimum, you don't go backwards. I bet you see progress with a significantly less volume. And that will give you the gauge of how much were you actually overturning.

And to go a little deeper into this, like the reason why overdoing it is so common, there's a lot of reasons why. Insecurity, if I'm getting good results, I'll get better results or whatever. But even when you're a fitness fanatic like we are and is fitness maturity like we have, here's what happens to us.

I said you want to have more energy at the end of the workout than you did when you get started. Well, here's what it feels like when you're working out. You start the workout and you start to feel good. Then you start to feel great. Then I feel amazing and I want to keep chasing this feeling, but what ends up happening is go beyond it. And then I start to get tired of, oh, okay, I overdid it.

So you want to end your workout when you feel your best and that requires a little bit of discipline but if you do that you're gonna continue to progress at a nice consistent pace versus overdoing it because the appropriate intensity, the appropriate volume will get you the fastest results. More than that doesn't get you faster results. It actually gets you slower results. So this is actually an important question, especially if you're driven by the progress you make in the gym. Next question is from Chelsea Bird. As a 30 plus year old female, how realistic is it to achieve and maintain a low enough body fat percentage that showcases abs, leg muscles, defined

shoulders, and maintain a healthy hormone profile? Is this possible to maintain without tracking? Unlikely. Very unlikely. Yeah, so there's a body fat, we all know that too much body fat is unhealthy because that's much more common, right? Obesity is much more common. But too little body fat for too long

is also oftentimes unhealthy. Problematic. And especially for women, especially for women. When women walk around in the teens of body fat, especially lower, for too long, you almost always see hormone profile disruption, you almost always see fluctuations in their menstrual cycles.

You start to see issues with hot, cold intolerance, sleep issues, libido. Most women, fit women, do well maintaining somewhere between 18 to even as high as 24%. And I'm talking about women who are really consistent with the workouts. You can still be very healthy and be like 27%, 28% body fat. But if you're like a fitness fanatic,

you wanna hover in that 18 to like 23%, maybe body fat percentage. You start to get lower than that and you stay that way But if you're like a fitness fanatic, you want to hover in that 18 to like 23% maybe body fat percentage, you start to get lower than that and you stay that way, almost always you see problems. There's also a genetic component too that okay, so Katrina maintains a very low body fat percentage pretty much year round and looks really good, but you don't see her abs. She just genetically, some people, their abs will reveal themselves at a higher body fat percentage of theirs. There's things you can do, like build

your abs, because they're a muscle. So you could build them to maybe show them or expose them. But there's also a genetic component of how and where you hold body fat. And you could have a moderately low or even low body fat percentage like she is. Katrina is always in the teens and a lot of times in the mid to low teens. And you don't see her abs. The closest we ever saw was she's like 9% body fat, which is not a place that you want to be as a female for a really long time. So to be shredded to where you see definition in your shoulders and legs for an extended period of time or maintaining,

probably not a good place for 95%. Because there's also, there are examples, right? You see these girls on CrossFit sometimes that look like this, like that is more to do with their genetics, like that. That's also performance and not health. And also not long term, right? Yeah, I'd like to see how they did long term,

you know, maintaining. And none of them have their period, you know, all of them have hormone profile disruption, most likely. I mean, when I train female athletes, It's misleading. I would train female athletes who come to me 15, 16% body fat and they'd struggle getting pregnant. You know how they would get pregnant?

Get their body fat percentage up to like 18, 19, 20% and then suddenly they're able to get pregnant. Yeah, it's terrible. This is us comparing ourselves to others, looking at what other people look like and saying, could I do that or should I do that? It's like not a good healthy place to be for male or female to be doing that.

And I just don't think, interesting to me too, not that this person's reason for having abs is for the opposite sex by anybody But I personally don't like blocky abs on a chick. I just don't think that's attractive I just not that like again my opinion matters But I don't know where this came from this idea of like that's a that's a good look like I don't think that looks Sexy by any means a girl that's shredded shoulders separated. Well, it's the same thing for guys, right? You get super shredded and jacked and 99 percent of time. It's a guy that comments

Yeah, again, yeah a lot of women will comment and they'll probably get you know a good boost From that kind of response But yeah, it's I think I think there's just like that idea of like I could do this like it's like some goal or target But I don't think realize like, you know, we live in that, like what that's gonna do hormonally and into your body's health. And also when you look at the happiness associated with health and fitness, because it's very strongly connected, right? It's not the result or the look that causes the happiness. It's the journey of fitness. It's the exercise. It's what it does to your mental state. It's the journey of fitness, it's the exercise, it's what it does to your mental state,

it's what it does for your health, it's eating healthy and that helps, and how that affects you. But people tend to think, oh, the happiness that comes from fitness is because you look the way you do. No, no, there's very little happiness attached to beauty. This is the data that shows us quite clearly.

It's rather, it's the journey along the way that causes that happiness. And so you'll get stuck in this really nasty hamster wheel of trying to look a particular way, and you'll miss it. It's rather, it's the journey along the way that causes that happiness. And so you'll get stuck in this really nasty hamster wheel of trying to look a particular way, and you'll miss all the incredible values of fitness. How far Job's tried to highlight that. It is.

The fact that there's so many other variables to pay attention to other than your looks. That's right, but yeah, as a woman, most typically there's genetic differences on the outsides, but 18 to 23% body fat's a good fit, lean, healthy body fat percentage, and your hormones probably won't suffer and you'll feel good. Once you get down to the mid-teens, that's when you tend to see problems. Next question is from Arki Drums. Are there any pros or cons for lifting low reps and heavy weight

for five to eight reps and mid-weight for 10 to 12 reps in the same workout in a push-pull leg split? No, no there's really no... I can give you some cons. I can give you some cons. Well aside from the... In terms of like repeatable metrics? Yeah, that's the one. I mean just the reason why, yeah that's a con to me and I definitely can speak to this because this kind of was the way I used to train. I used to, the entire workout was a blend of all this. I had one exercise I'd go really heavy on, another one I would superset, high reps,

another one would be like hypertrophy, eight to 12, and every workout I was switching up and changing up which ones and what I was doing. And this was back when I used to think of the most important thing was muscle confusion. And I thought the way of muscle confusion worked was confusing the muscles by doing something different all the time, right?

And thinking that that was a better way. There's a, the what's hard is when you, when you run a program where you're changing reps on different muscle groups and different exercises and you're changing that frequently in your workout, it's very hard to tell, and also keep track of like, is that like the seventh time in a row I've done that for heavy reps?

Is that the, am I getting any stronger in that lift or not? Or wow, I'm feeling really good right now. Is it the high reps that my body's responding really well, or is it the low reps that it's responding really well? So you're not building and developing a real skill yeah other than like kind of surviving whatever you're presenting your body. That's a such a good point Justin because the mentality and skill that goes into and the feel that goes into five reps is very different than in 15

reps. That's right. So if I'm training in five reps there's a different feel I'm looking for a different intensity control output than if I'm training five reps, there's a different feel I'm looking for, a different intensity, control, output than if I'm doing 15 reps. And the reason why, so if you look at our maps program, now, now the data, the reason why I said no initially is if you look at the data, alternating reps in a workout versus doing a block of a rep, you know, count for three weeks and three weeks to another one or whatever results wise, it seems to be right around the same. But behaviorally, this is why maps programs are phased oftentimes with blocks of rep counts where you know you're doing five reps for three weeks then you're doing ten reps for another

three weeks and there's other changes as well but the reason that is is that it's a different mentality it's a different skill and I believe you train your skill and how you should handle the weight as much as you train the muscles. And so my experience for the real world is it's better to focus on one rep. The pro to this is if you're, if you're like, you love where you're currently at, right? Like, so my, my good buddy, uh, Brendan Iyabedajo, uh, ex NFL player owns all the orange theories. Uh, I like to jab at him sometimes cause he's obviously drank his own Kool-Aid. He is in Orange Theories, running his class all the time. And he always

talks about his training and where he's at. And he's always showing his physique off. And I'm like, are you happy where your physique's at? You're not trying to make any more gains or change? Because whatever you're doing is working if you want to stay the same. And you look great. I was telling him, you look great. You don't want to get any bigger. You don't want to stay the same. And you look great, you know what I'm saying? I was telling him, you look great, you know what I'm saying? Like you don't want to get any bigger, you don't want to like get any stronger or anything like that. And so what you're doing is working, because you can change it up all these workouts all the time. And if you ever been to randomly to an Orange Theory,

that's how it is. Like their workouts are always like a new thing every day, which is great for somebody who wants to maintain their current fitness level. But if you were programming to make change, like our body composition change, or to get stronger, right? Uh, to increase muscle endurance, whatever your desired outcome, if you actually are applying this workout to see significant change in your

body, you're far better off having a more methodical approach to how you structure your training blocks and how long you stay with a rep range and how long your rest period and manipulating that over the periods of time, that will be a far better way. Now, if you are like great shape, you look good, you feel good, you move good, and then you just wanna have fun,

fucking yeah, they're the pro to that is change it all up. Do every workout weird and random and sets and reps, and there's nothing wrong with that to maintain a good physique, I think that's totally okay. But I normally get somebody who asks this question and then I follow up with what's their goal and they're like, oh, I'd like to put on 15 pounds of muscle or oh, I'd like to lean out by four or 5% body fat.

Okay, well if you wanna do that, we'd be better off running a structured program that we can actually measure the results and actually be more timely about how we change things up versus just sporadically. You know, and what this also speaks to is a lot of people don't realize that workout programming is very important. And so when you don't realize that rep counts

are interchangeable, it's just a means to an end, exercises, they're just body parts that we're training. So this one works the same body part as that one, it's not that big of a deal. Exercise order doesn't matter, tempo doesn't matter, it's all working out. No, no, no, it all matters and when you program properly, if you look at really good, you know, programming with strength training in particular, it tends to follow in

blocks, it tends to follow in phases and that's just because it works better, it just works better that way. Next question is from G Snyder. What are your thoughts on pausing the use of a GLP-1 for a couple weeks to do a mini bulk and then get back on the GLP one? My calories have dropped really low and I'm wondering if interrupting the large deficit with little bulk would keep me right on track. We're not a doctor. Exactly. We cannot recommend dosage of GLP ones, when to use it, how much to use it, when to stop or any of that stuff. But I think what's important about this

question to address is the challenge that people are going to run into with GLP-1s and how important it is to understand that. Set yourself up. You just drop your calories real low for whatever reason, either you willed it to happen or a GLP-1 took your appetite away, okay? Your body adapts to that.

Now you'll lose some weight and you'll lose some muscle with that, especially if you don't strength train and follow some precautions to maintain muscle. You'll lose weight, then your metabolism will adapt to what you're taking in and now you're screwed. So your goal was to lose 60 pounds, you lost 30, got 30 more to go, but I'm eating a thousand calories a day.

What do I do now? Up my dose and go to 500 calories? I can't even sustain, I won't be able to get enough nutrients at 500 calories. That's dangerous. So what do I do? Well, here's what you do. You reverse, you go in the opposite direction, you increase your calories, raise your protein and strength train. And I think with GLP-1s, this is going to be the big challenge. I think, and we know this, we have a group that we work with, 50 people in there. Very common. Very common. They had these crazy hard plateaus at like 1200 calories.

And I've been at the same low calories for six months. I haven't lost a single pound anymore. It's like, we got to move you out of that, get your metabolism to speed up so we can, you know, start the fat loss process again. So since Sal covered our ass by saying we're not doctors and we can't recommend this, I'm gonna say this is what I would do if I was doing this and did whatever I wanted to do, I would use the GLP-1 to break

those hedonistic desires towards foods. Most people that want to get on a GLP-1 have a significant amount of body fat they want to lose. Normally that has something to do with some sort of relationship or connection to food or alcohol or something that they have overeaten themselves to that weight. And what has been shown with that GLP-1 is how powerful it breaks that connection. So I would use that to make that initial break from that food, that thing that

I was driving towards to start to create new good healthy behaviors around that. And whether that took four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks, 12 weeks, whatever that takes to get there, to lose that initial weight, to break those habits, then I would come off of it. And then I would reintroduce a better like eating habit around whatever was happening. So if it was like ice cream for me, I've shared that. You know, now that's Greek yogurt, high protein Greek yogurt and granola at nighttime. Right. It's now been inserted there instead of the ice cream and go on a mini bulk where I'm trying to get strong. I'm hitting my protein intake. And I would do that. And that's how I would use something, a tool like this.

If it was me doing the call. Yes, we're not doctors. We can't tell everybody how to use this stuff. But what we have found in this group is exactly what the guy said is we are having these people that have this initial success because it cuts their calories in half. And then what ends up happening is they have a hard plateau.

And the inevitable has to happen. They need to reverse diet. They need to rebuild their metabolism and a lot of them can't do it on the generic dose that a lot of these GF They don't have the appetite. Yes, there seems to be this Misunderstanding of that. It's like some kind of fat burning I've talked to some of my friends and people are interested in it and it's like it seems to be as misconception that like yes It'll kind of crush and curb appetite, but also it has this like fat burning effect to it,

which is not the case. This is just something that you have to be really on top of like, the nutrients and really making sure like you're, you're in this in order to better your behaviors and your habits around food. And this is an opportunity that you have and you need to grab it and, you know, really take the reins. The data shows that GLP-1s improve insulin sensitivity. That probably is better for you from a mitochondrial standpoint.

It probably does assist in the data seems to show this in fat loss. It probably has some pro muscle health effects. And there's some other interesting things as well, but a lot of the effects are because you just eat a lot less calories, but it comes with its own challenges. One of the challenges is how do we keep you from losing muscle? Because if you lose muscle, your metabolism slows down, you're going to be in a bad place. And why would you want to lose muscle anyway? You're less mobile less strong and less muscle almost always unless you're this massive bodybuilder, right?

It almost always means you're less healthy too much body fat is unhealthy too little muscle is equally as Unhealthy and so the challenge is gonna be for a lot of people is well, I'm very little now I don't have an appetite to eat more. I want to get muscle. I want to strength train, but it's not working. Why isn't it working? I'm lifting weights. You're not eating enough.

You don't have enough nutrients to fuel any kind of muscle building. So we need to eat more. Well, I can't eat more. It's funny because some of the conversations with people on GLP-1s remind me of conversations I would have with teenage boys who were skinny and couldn't eat more food and wanted to gain muscle. Remember those? It was like you're trying to come up with tricks

to get them to eat more calories. Well, you know, drink some milk with your meals and maybe try some shakes. I'm telling people who used to struggle with weight, who were obese, I'm giving them these tricks to get more calories because the GLP-1 is taking their appetite so much. So it's-

You just flip the coin and they have the other problem. It's so weird. So- And by the way, hearing us talk about this, there's this initial knee-jerk reaction that some professionals get like, and this is why it's so bad. Well, listen, there is also this.

It's a tool. Exactly, there are a lot of people that, and we just had a great conversation with a friend of ours that battled with like drug addiction, right? And there's people that have an addiction to food that they can't, they are just, they can't, they can't break away. And they've tried every diet,

they've tried every intervention, and every time they do, they fail and go back and they binge, and they have got a lot of demons around this, and this is what's been so breakthrough about this GLP-1 one is it gives those people a Breath of fresh air that person who's white knuckling it every time when they're dying to get the grip off it takes it It takes it away and it's magical now. That doesn't mean that the work isn't done yet, right? That's just that's just a huge relief for some people but then the next step becomes okay

How do we solve what what was causing this this addiction and how can we create new behaviors? But man, that can be life-changing for some people that have been battling their entire life with this. And so I'm very pro what this thing is capable of and how it can help a lot of people. Do I think there's tons of abuse? Do I think there's tons of people that shouldn't be doing it? Absolutely. But that's not my job as a coach and a trainer is not to judge these people, it's to help these people through this process and there is a way that this can really help a lot of people. If you use it, if you're the right person for it and you're using it and you're combining it with proper and appropriate strength training, a high protein diet, you're not using, you're not

destroying your appetite so you're not just eating almost nothing and you're working with behavior modification through the process I think it could be a very valuable tool if it's just something you take and this is it and you do nothing else with it yeah no you're gonna solve some problems and cause other problems is my strong opinion look if you like the show come find us on Instagram Justin is that mind pump Justin I'm at mind pump to Stefan Owen Adam is that mind pump Adam Thank you for listening to Mind Pump.

If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed

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