Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2461: Heavy Weight Vs. Light Weight (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: November 6, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Training with heavyweight vs. lightweight. (2:24) Adam addresses challenges in his current muscle-building transformation. (11:02) Making gains with low testosterone. (19:39) Examples of extreme body manipulation. (21:11) The belief is that to be a successful coach or trainer you MUST be ripped. (26:21) Carnival Sal. (34:15) The Schafer’s Disney World Halloween experience. (35:28) Ethan’s homecoming extravaganza. (41:48) “My time has expired.” (43:13) The out-of-body experience as a parent when something happens to your kid. (45:34) Addressing the controversy over an ingredient in LMNT. (51:56) Shout out to Dr. Staci! (58:25) #ListenerLive question #1 – What adjustments or changes would you recommend to help boost my energy levels? (1:01:13) #ListenerLive question #2 – What should training look like to continue to lift like a bodybuilder, but get ready to hike the Grand Canyon rim to rim in one day? (1:14:36) #ListenerLive question #3 – How to make the most of group fitness classes if that's currently my only option? (1:24:20) #ListenerLive question #4 –  If the calorie counter app is saying I can consume just over 3000 calories, does this mean that it’s still a deficit if I eat 2500 calories because my exercise offset it? (1:41:54) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Joovv for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP to get $50 off your first purchase. ** Visit NASM for this month’s exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Fitness and Nutrition Bundle - Buy CPT get CNC Free! ** Code MPMFNB at checkout ** Tuesday Nov. 12 @ 4PM (PST) – TRAIN THE TRAINER WEBINAR SERIES : The Key for Personal Trainers to Retain Clients During the Holiday Season November Promotion: MAPS Resistance | MAPS OCR 50% off! ** Code NOVEMBER50 at checkout ** Mind Pump #1932: Lifting Heavy Vs. Lifting Light Building Muscle with Adam Schafer – Mind Pump TV Mind Pump #1827: The 3 Best Rep Ranges to Build Muscle & Burn Fat Colorado Experiment - Wikipedia Get your free Sample Pack with any “drink mix” purchase! Also try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water: Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump Mind Pump # 1587: Getting to Root Cause of Low Energy, Skin Issues and a Poor Libido With Dr. Stephen Cabral Mind Pump # 2312: Five Steps to Bounce Back From Overtraining How Much Training is Necessary to Maintain Strength and Muscle? Mind Pump # 1237: Why Most Group Exercise Classes Suck Reverse Dieting: What Is It and Should YOU Try It?? | MIND PUMP Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Brian Kula (@kulasportsperformance) Instagram Mind Pump Fitness Coaching (@mindpumptrainers) Instagram Dr. Stephen Cabral (@stephencabral) Instagram Dr. Anastacia ("Staci") Whitman (@doctor_staci) Instagram Dr. Stephanie Estima (@dr.stephanie.estima) Instagram Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (@drgabriellelyon) Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Right today's episode, we worked with live callers. People call in, we get to coach them on air, but this is after the intro. Now our intro today was 54 minutes long. In the intro we talk about current events and studies, family life, it's a good time. After that we got to the

live callers. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this one where you call in and we get to help you out on air, email us at live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Juv. This is red light therapy for your home. So if you've read about the benefits of red light therapy, like it grows back hair, heals your skin, injuries faster, can raise testosterone, you're listening or you're reading about red light like Juv. Juv is red light therapy that you read about in the studies. Not like other that are cheaper, but just not as effective Anyway, go check them out go to Jove calm. That's J OOVV calm forward slash mind pump use the code mind pump get yourself a discount

This episode is also brought to you by N a SM the the world's premier personal training certification company And right now if you go to N a SM PT calm you can get their CPT certification and they'll throw in their nutrition certification for free. Just use the offer code MPMFNB. Also we have a sale this month on some workout programs. MAPS resistance is 50% off and MAPS OCR also 50% off. If you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com

and then use the discount code November 50 for the discount. All right, here comes the show. T-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time! Aw, shit, Doug, you know it's my favorite time of the week. We have five winners this week, three for Apple Podcasts, two for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winners are Christian Sorpasso, Coco9650, and Jessica A.

And for Facebook we have Cody Cuss and Amber Sanchez. All of you are winners, send the name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you. Look, when you're strength training, you will not build muscle with heavyweight or include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to ya. Look, when you're strength training, you will not build muscle with heavyweight or lightweight if you don't understand the following. All right, what do you guys think?

We're gonna talk about here. If you don't understand the following, interesting. Dude, you got me on work. Well, I'll start with the big one, and this one is now backed by data. So we'll get into the differences between training lightweight and heavyweight, and how you should approach each one

to maximize the benefits of each one. But we now have data to support, I think bodybuilders have communicated for a long time with heavyweight and lightweight. So what data shows is that you can build just as much muscle with lightweight as you can with heavyweight. However, intensity needs to be very high with lightweight. So if you're doing a set of, you know, like a bench press with let's say 18 reps, it needs to be closer to failure than a set of heavyweight to

six reps. So your intrinsic tension has to be like maximal. Like you have to really put like a lot of output in these lightweight reps. Yeah, so what they think the reason why. So one of the ways is like one of my favorite ways to coach us and teach people is slowing the tempo down. When you grab a weight, because one of the hardest parts about doing lightweight

is choosing a weight that's light enough that you can move it 15 times, but it's challenging enough that at 15, I'm really struggling. That's probably one of the hardest things to do, and then to do that consistently for three or four sets. The best way I've ever been able to teach that or do that with myself and clients is to,

hey, no matter how light of a weight we pick, when you get to reps about 12 or 13, and you realize, oh, I'm easily gonna get 15, slow that tempo way down, create like an isometric. Do like a pause rep there with the isometric, just focus. Yes, yes. In other words, that's such great advice. In other words, if you have a rep target of 15, let's say,

make the weight fail as you get to 15. And how do you do that? Changing the tempo, changing the squeeze, making it harder. But yeah, so heavy weight, because it's heavy, probably activates more muscle fibers, sends a louder signal with lower intensity. In other words, if I did a set of five or six with the weight that I could do eight or nine reps with, it'll build more muscle than if I did 15 with the weight that I could do, let's say 18 reps with. However, if I do 15 reps with

a weight that I can only do 15 or 16 with, in other words, it's high intensity, now they seem to be equal. And this is what the data shows. The data shows lightweight builds as much muscle, but it has to be high intensity. This is great. I know obviously you guys are all super busy, so I don't expect you guys to be watching the series and pay attention, but it's always great when- I just read the comments now. That's all I do. Those are the worst. I'm like, like, and. I just read the comments now. Yeah. That's all I do. Those are the worst. I go out and I like and then I just try to say, fuck you.

You're probably up liking all the ones on your shit. Yeah, exactly. We does suck. I actually was just communicating how, so I was originally, when we first started, I was doing higher reps and communicating this. And then I just switched over to low reps and heavy weight. And as I'm switched over to like low reps and heavy weight. And as I'm going through it, I was explaining that, oh,

when I choose a weight, when the adaptation is strength, and I want to get overall strength, and I'm training in that five, four, three rep range, each set, if I can do that five, I'm not going to do seven, eight, nine reps. I'm going to put that weight down. And then I'm going to go to the next set. I'm going to keep going.

I'm going to keep increasing the weight until I find a weight that is heavy enough that I struggle to get five because that is the adaptation. I said the opposite is true when I'm training a lightweight, lots of reps. If I grab a weight and it's like, oh, I could easily get 15. I don't necessarily go up in weight. I'll just slow the tempo down and increase the intensity because the adaptation is more muscle endurance, hypertrophy based, and I can do that still with a light weight by controlling tempo.

What a great way to communicate it, Adam. Yeah, because with light weight, when you're working out with lighter weight, you really want to focus on the muscle. You want to focus on making it hard. You're trying to make, in other words, you're trying to make the light weight feel heavy. When you're lifting with heavy weight,

the focus is on the movement. If I'm bench pressing or dead lifting or squatting and my reps are five, I'm not trying to feel it in my quads or my chest or wherever. I'm trying to really brace my body. I'm trying to be tight, maximize leverage, and move the weight in the most effective, efficient way possible.

In other words, I'm trying to make the heavy weight feel light, so it's the opposite. When you're working out with lightweight, make it feel heavy. When you're working with heavyweight, make it light. And again, the data shows us. The data shows that lower intensities are required with heavyweight. Higher intensities are required with lighter weight. Well it's funny too, like you bringing that up, because there's another benefit to that. And you've seen this with Olympic lifters and you've seen this in like, you know, Russian lifting will do

Lightweight, but but it's really just to maximize Uh their technique and to move it as fast as possible. Yeah, so now you're sharpening that um the efficiency and you you know you Your body's going to adapt and respond to that at a higher degree at a higher level than it would before so it's like you know to You're not going to be able to do that because you're going to have heavier weight, you're always going to have to kind of adjust for these, these little micro adjustments because your body's now, you know, sort of also being thrown out of its, its, um, you know, alignment in the movement. And so to sharpen that, but then approach it with heavier weight gradually,

you're going to get even more benefit. Yeah, it's, also you know explosive and power style training which is a little off topic that activates a lot of muscle fibers even though the weight is light but it's because the force generated is maximal right so you know if I take a medicine ball that's you know 15 pounds I could lift that easily but if I throw it as fast as I can, I'm gonna activate as many muscle fibers as if I did a max lift. And of course I'm training now. And you're teaching good behaviors, good patterns, and good things for you to then repeat.

So that way, when you have heavy weight, you're less likely to get thrown out. By the way, the reason why, if you look at our MAPS programs, the reason why we don't mix rep ranges in workouts for the most part is because training with heavy weight and training with lightweight is a skill, it is a feel.

Different mindsets. And it's a different mindset. And so I prefer training people in a block of light weight with higher reps or a block of heavy weight with low reps because by the time we get to the second or third workout of that week, they're starting to really understand what that feels like. Again, I'll use the example of a squat. When I'm squatting and I'm trying to make a weight feel heavy for 15 reps, I'm trying to make my quads fatigue. I'm trying to feel the muscles that I'm targeting. When I'm doing a set of five,

I'm not trying to feel any particular muscle. I'm trying to maximize. Yeah, it's all about leverage and technique and drive. I'm not trying to feel. Yeah, it's all about leverage and technique and drive. I'm not trying to feel it in a particular area. And that's a skill and it's a practice that takes a long time to kind of get good at. Now if you're really advanced, you can mix rep ranges and switch in and out. But most people are way better off practicing one for a little while moving to the next one. Not to mention, I've always made the point that it's also easier to measure what's being more effective.

So when you run a block where it's like, okay, this is what we're doing for the next three to four weeks, and all the exercises are in that type of a phase where we're moving in this five by five or strength type of phase, well, and then the next phase after that, I go into say muscle endurance hypertrophy

where I'm moving 10 to 15 reps, I can compare the two phases for my body. It's like, oh wow, my body really responded nicely to this one. And what you'll find is there's always an individual variance. There's also a variance in what you've been doing mostly and then changing it up.

That's the other thing too that you said the other day on the podcast really well, what'd you say you said? Everything works until it doesn't. Yeah. And it's like that you have to take that into account that we all are kind of creatures of habit and we're gonna kind of gravitate to the way we like to train, the exercises we like to choose.

And okay, hopefully those ones are what give you the most gains, but at some point they won't. At some point, something else, almost anything else will give you more gains. And so being able to section it out in blocks of training where it's like, okay, this is what the adaptation I'm going after really helps you see that and go like,

oh wow, this really did benefit me to move to this hypertrophy phase because I've been training this way for too long. No, it's true. All the rep ranges within reason build muscle. They all have value. But you'll probably find, like you're saying, Adam, you'll find one that you tend to respond best to.

Just don't get stuck there. That was me. When it comes to muscle gains, I just respond way better to low reps. I just do, but I could get stuck there for a while, start to feel my joints, and it stops working, and then I need to move out into the higher reps. So, okay, I'm talking about this.

I really wanted, I actually didn't plan to do this on air. I kind of wanted to do this off air since we're like trying to figure me out right now. I'm challenged right now with this, the series I'm doing as I'm documenting all this stuff. And obviously done this, you know, hundreds of times. But what's unique about this is I've never come from a place so far muscle-wise, right?

Where my body's used to having so much. And I noticed this last time that I did heavy squats that boy, it really, really bothered my hips. Really, really bothered. And I've been doing my mobility and priming I should have probably done a little bit more intensive considering that was gonna be the the heaviest load. I'd done a long time I mean, it wasn't crazy. It was 275, but I was moving it in a block of five by fives Yeah, but just four weeks earlier was 135. So this is what I'm thinking right like

What I wasn't accounting for and not thinking about was, man, my body was just doing 135 four weeks ago and I'm already at 275 and that drastic of a jump, I haven't allowed all my other secondary stabilizer muscles to come up with that. And I haven't been addressing enough. I think of multi-directional movements and other things to support the piling. Because I pile on a lot of muscle really quick. Never have I done that that quick before, because I've never come from a place like this before. And what it's resulted in is some of

these challenges that I didn't foresee coming. And I'm a little frustrated right now that that happened to me because I was catching really good rhythm. I was getting a lot of strength, added a lot of muscle. But now I'm like kind of plagued with this like super tight IT, TFL type stuff going on in my hips. Well, it's the only thing I can, I can think of, you know, when, um, uh, you know, when they talk about how muscles, um, muscles will get stronger faster than connective tissue will, and you have to be careful for some of that. Yeah. Yeah.

Your muscle memory is allowing you to build muscle super fast. Your connective tissue, ligaments and tendons probably take a little longer. Because you hadn't squatted 275. A long time. A long time. A long time, because even before I was lifting,

say four, so I took four months off pretty much everything. Even before that I don't even know if I was squatting 275. So you gotta give. So you got to give it, you know, you have to give the connective tissue. That's what you felt. It seems so obvious, right? Talking it out loud with you guys now, but it just didn't feel like it. I was going through cause I was just like, Oh man, this is great. Strengths there. Yeah. So yeah, the game support it. So it kind of made sense, but yeah, it's now

it's like, Oh, okay, wait a minute. I don't think the rest of my supporting cast is ready. Yeah, so. No, I think connective tissue takes, and ligaments and tendons and stuff, take longer to get weaker. Muscles respond faster both directions. But once they get weaker, getting them to come back up. Getting them to come back takes just as long. Yeah, probably longer because there's less blood flow there,

there's less, and you'll hear about this with athletes when they'll, let's say an athlete gets on. So the Q-lease takes so long to heal. Yeah. It's like it doesn't get Tera muscle takes a while. You Tara tendon. Oh, that could take speed to that.

My sister-in-law just did that to her Achilles and she's been booted. Yeah. I think she had a partial terror. I don't know if it was a full terror or not, but she's been booted up for a while. Now she was taking the BPC one five seven and she's been religiously used. I gave her my little mini juve7 and she's been religiously, I gave her my little mini juve light and she's been doing that, like to have her take it off like three times a day.

I told her, frequency, I said frequency as much as you can of this. Every time you take that boot off, just put the light in, do your little movements you're supposed to do. She had her first like official like rehab and they assessed her and they were like, what are you doing?

Like you're like way ahead of schedule on recovery. And so she was super pumped because I had been telling her to do all this stuff ahead of time. And she was asking, is this really, what's this light doing? Is it really doing anything? I go, I know it's weird because you're not gonna, I said, you're not gonna like feel it. You're not gonna do it and be like, oh yeah,

there's red lights doing this either. It's like, but I said, watch. And I said, you're a physical therapist. You'll know by the way they respond to you. They'll tell you how quick you're progressing. Her first appointment, they already said that to her. Yeah, they were already like, whoa, you're way ahead of schedule on recovery.

So she's like, now she's all bought in. Yeah, with red light, the data will show 15% to 20% faster depending on the type of injury recovery. BPC also probably, look at the animal models, 20 to 30% faster, some animal data's 40% faster. You're talking about like half the time. Yes, yeah, and so, and I would imagine the combination of the two has got to be synergistic,

because BPC is literally telling everything to heal faster and move faster, then the red light is fueling all the mitochondria of the cells trying to do that. So you just turbocharge these cells that wanna repair even faster. So it's probably- I mean, it's what I-

I wish I had all access to this when I was a trainer. How many pro athletes- Yeah, but you know what? Oh my God. Here's the caveat to that is that I, this is what I did for my chest. How did you feel by the way? You worked it out.

I did, I did. I felt good. I felt like- You're very confident. I mean, you saw how weak you are. Yeah, but still. But I really sore. But I feel good. I'm actually gonna probably try and incorporate,

I will incorporate it this week. I'm gonna start introducing dumbbells. I won't do barbell for a while, but I will do some dumbbells and cables. I'm gonna start to reintroduce that. But my point of bringing that up was that it's so effective that you still gotta give it a little bit more time even

though you feel a hundred percent healed because that's what happened to me. It was like I was like oh my god I'm back you know it was like four weeks later after a peck tear I'm like I'm good to go back to pressing dumbbells all heavy and so that and like an idiot. How long do you guys think that the pro athletes have had access to this? I think they've had a long time. Because how many times? The top tier ones. They have to right? Because you see these athletes that are like oh've had a long time because how many times the top tier ones they have to write because you see these athletes that Are like oh, we had a so-and-so tear and then like weeks later He's playing again, and they don't look like they're just like I feel like they have good

If they're a good athlete of agents that you have a network and then like they have a guy that's exactly how it works It's not like all pro athletes. It's like you're around for a long time You just didn't have access to it You had to know people if you were if you're worth a lot of money And a lot of money people and you have the right people connected to that They have the connections and they're the ones that are because not all these out It's not like the NFL has like a peptide company and with them. Yeah, exactly It's up. It's on your it's on you to do your own working business, dude. It's cut throat I mean and it was you know, I kind of had some idea of it

but until one of my friends actually made it, and then I was like watching him and, you know, go through the process of like trying to make the team. And then he's, unfortunately, like preseason game, like just gets taken out like his leg, his knee, like blown out route, like his whole career is done. Right. And so it's like, and he's just trying to make it. And you know, there's so many athletes that like just are trying to survive and then we'll get cut like on just a few games where they had like an off game, you know? And so it's like, it's until you're really established in your franchise player and you're going to make them money. That's when you start getting all these access. Right. And me is something I was going to bring up. I can't remember his name. Darn it. He was a, he did one of the best scores, what is it when they're testing these athletes?

Oh, combine combines, yeah. One of the best scores ever. He looks like a bodybuilder, he's a white dude. And I guess he had the fastest 40, he did all the- 416, I believe. Who ran a 416? 416. What was his name?

It was a big white dude. And they said- Kula just posted about it, and I asked him. They were talking about, well I don't know if it was his name? It was a big white dude. And they said that- Kula just posted about it and I asked him. They were talking about, well I don't know if it was this, I don't know if it was recent. Maybe it was- Yeah, 416? Maybe it was a recent.

Oh okay, this was a recent one. Bro, you'll go back in time running that fast. I know! That's fast, bro. He said, they're, okay, so I asked him like, is that the fastest, that's the fastest I've ever heard. That's the fastest I've ever heard. You know, cause I was like, unbelievable.

He said Christian Coleman at 412. Wow. Wow. I that is I don't either and I was like my mind was just blown because it was I've seen a 4-3 in person I didn't believe it because I was like oh my god that guy what is the lightning fast yeah no there was one guy I can't remember his name it was a big white dude looked like a bodybuilder and everybody thought he was gonna crush the NFL, but, and then he tanked, apparently. And they said that he gained like 30 pounds of muscle going into this, and they were all speculating

on how many drugs he was on, and then he just, I can't remember his name. Off the, yeah, it'll pop, but he looks, there's like a scary picture of this dude running. He looks like a pro bodybuilder running, I'm like, oh my God. Oh yeah. Oh, you're not talking about cushings, are you?

No, it might have happened in the 90s or early 2000s. I didn't know somebody ran. That Brian Bosworth? Me? I don't know. Anyway. That's the only white guy I know. Good old name drop right there.

Yeah, look at that. That goes to him. Hey, look at this guy. Come on, the sports world. Bring it in. Speaking of gains, I was going to bring this up on the last podcast. Totally forgot.

So do you guys remember that gentleman we had on the show who he had, uh, he had, he had testicular cancer, I think, or he, some kind of, the only thing was testicular cancer and had zero testosterone cause they had to block his testosterone for a while and he was trying to make gains and we were trying to talk him through. Oh, a live, a live caller. Okay. You guys remember him?

I vaguely remember. Okay. So he followed our advice. So remember, we're working with somebody who had no testosterone, and he's not allowed to raise his testosterone just yet. He just got out of cancer treatment, and he's training, working out,

and he's like, is it possible to make gains? And so we gave him some advice. Well, this, six weeks later, here's a follow-up. In six weeks, he gained nine pounds of muscle and lost nine pounds of body fat. Wow. With no testosterone, almost no testosterone. Wow.

And he was following MAPS Antibolic, and we gave him advice with his diet, keep his protein high, reverse diet. That's impressive. Isn't that great? Wow. Brad Jones was named. Put the work in.

Wow. That's really impressive. Isn't that amazing? That's awesome, dude. Yeah, and so when he gets out of this stage of when he can start to get his testosterone back to normal, I mean, his gains are gonna blow up. But I wanted to share that because you can still,

even if hormones are not doing great, your body will still adapt, obviously not to the potential that it could, but you can still get, you can still. They'll adjust based on the signal you keep reiterating and showing you Yes, but I was so happy to hear what was the time frame? He was able to do that six weeks Wow That's really impressive. Yes. It reminds me of all the YouTube comments

I'm getting right now because of the the muscle and 18 pounds in a month Oh my god the amount of controversy irony of that was the amount that we prefaced it and I told people like documented Yeah, this is what's probably going to happen I didn't like overly communicate it because I also didn't want to like fuck with myself I'm saying I didn't want to be like I'm gonna go do this deep down inside like we knew we talked off air a Lot like you know what the central was pretty high. Yeah, I knew the potential was high I but what I I didn't want to talk too much because I'd never come from that place before. Not that far off.

Like I've lost muscle and came back, but not that much gone to come back from. And so I knew the potential was high and I knew that I wasn't training. And I know you talked, we talked a little bit about the Casey Vider stat. And people were speculating saying that was bullshit. This and that. The Colorado experiment. Yeah, the Colorado. It's weird that, I get why people debate it

because the results that Casey Vider got were so insane. It's unbelievable. It's hard to comprehend, yeah. It's unbelievable. But it was done at the, I forgot what university was done, University of Colorado maybe. It was done at the university. It was supervised by the professors who run the exercise and physiology departments there, it was a

legit study. So they documented it, so you can't argue that that didn't happen. Now how it happened we can debate, but Casey Viader himself said, first of all, well regarded as one of the best genetically gifted bodybuilders of all time. He was Mr. I think Universe at 18, back when Mr. Universe was a big deal. Like just Bill, he was just super genetically gifted. He went on a 900 calorie diet going into it, lost all his muscle, then went into it,

bumped his calories, and then worked out with Arthur Drowns. I mean it's not that weird to me at all, especially seeing what I was able to do with, I definitely don't have Bodybuilding you don't have his I definitely do not have it definitely not on his level You could some people are trying to argue and say I have good genetics. Okay, but I'll take that but Definitely not like it natural whatsoever So and then you know, he also I know so he intentionally did that I kind of did with glp-1

It wasn't like I was like really trying to lose it. I just allowed it to happen. So similar type of situation where the GLP-1 probably lost a good 20 pounds of muscle or maybe 15 pounds of muscle. I mean, right before my calories were extremely low and then I came off, ramped it up. About the only thing that he has,

well, in addition to the genetics and stuff like that, he probably also, if I could imagine if I was allowed all the antibiotics I wanted, like I probably would have taken some stuff for recovery that would probably speed that up, maybe growth hormones, some other things that would have like accelerated that process. So I'm on basic TRT stuff. So I mean, and if I was able to do that in that shorter period of time, it's not unbelievable to me for him to do that. I mean, we've seen a lot of examples of like extreme body manipulation and like, I mean, even if you look at like some of that Christian bail going into the machinist, you know, and like getting to the point where like I literally dead man

walking like looked like he was like just bone. And then to be able to bring himself back from that within, I don't even, I bet you it was like a few months, you know, where you lose muscle, especially if you lose muscle that you've had on your body for a long time, getting it back happens so fast. So if you, if you go and target it, it's where you're, it's like where your body wants to be. It's a crazy, it's a crazy. Just wait, just wait until, okay, so here's another one.

I'm going to call it on the show now. So people know ahead of time, but this will cause even more controversy. I will do this towards the end of this, like three month journey, right? This, so in another month or so, when I feel like I've put on an even more muscle by that time, I will do a 24 hour transformation that everybody will show.

I will intentionally. Here's the tricks. Yes. I will intentionally complete the day before real hard, low calorie, low amount of water, suck everything. I mean, first thing in the morning, take a picture of myself just deflated and at a weight and then I will load all day, get a full body training pump and then take a picture and show people a 24 hours, 24 hours I put on 15 pounds and look like this and watch everybody's heads explode and

all the liar, but I'm gonna do it. And I do the pictures holding the newspaper. That's like the ultimate troll bait right there. I've done it already, so I know, and I definitely haven't done it with this much of an extreme difference in my body, so I know my body's capable. When I was competing, every night, I fluctuated nine pounds. Not trying to fluctuate.

This just eating and just normal at nine pounds every night. When you have a lot of muscle on your body, I mean, there's fluid and glycogen comes in and out, it's easy to fluctuate. This just eating and just normal at nine pounds every night. When you have a lot of muscle on your body, I mean there's fluid and glycogen comes in and out. It's easy to fluctuate. Yes, especially when you've got that your metabolism is ramping. You know that's like right now because your metabolism, how quickly your body uses. I gained seven pounds in Florida. In Florida. Seven pounds. Did I gain seven pounds of muscle? No. It was just. Did anything gain seven pounds of fat either? No, it was just sodium. It's sodium, it's airplane food,

it's the food eating out, our schedules are off or whatever. Seven pounds of muscle. Seven pounds of squish. Puffiness or whatever. Nice mushyness. You know what I'm saying? Huggable. Speaking of which, I wanna bring this up

because we keep getting messages about this from trainers and I think it's a good topic to cover for coaches and trainers and that is, you know, there's a belief that in order to be successful trainer or coach, you have to appear to be like ripped or super fit or whatever. But on the flip side, then we have people who say, okay, I wanna be a trainer, I think I'll be successful, but they're clearly, don't exemplify health or fitness, or they're just kinda really out of shape or whatever. There's a balance there.

We have a friend of ours like that, he tries, what's his name, Steve, he wants to coach people, but he obviously doesn't reflect fitness. And that's a whole different conversation. But when it comes to training people, you wanna look like you take care of yourself, but you don't need to be ripped.

No. Not at all. No. You want to look healthy and look like you take care of your health, your body, you live by the things that you're trying to teach everybody. I also think there's an extreme the other direction. Like somebody who is jacked 24-7 all the time doesn't necessarily exemplify health. A lot of times those people are doing a lot of things extreme to get that look and appeal that way. Just unfortunate because the average consumer I don't

think understands that. I think they think oh this person's a trainer they need to be I want to I want my trainer to be super jacked. Most successful trainers that had ever worked for me were just fit. Yeah. They weren't shredded. Shredded I think they didn't do well to be honest with you because they were too focused on themselves. Do they have marketing data on that now in terms of how people respond more towards a super shredded jack person to do the initial purchase versus somebody that's maybe a little more approachable? I feel like it's shifted. The market shifted. Well, it's also, I don't even know if it's changed per se as much as it is

just the perception that we have. Okay, so the loudest and most annoying people on YouTube, on fitness channels, are other fitness fanatics. So the people that are talking shit to me about my physique wherever it's at with that, like that's not, those aren't my clients. Those aren't the people, like, I've never had a client

talk shit about my body. I've never once, no matter, in the worst shape I've Those aren't the people, like, I've never had a client talk shit about my body. Never once, no matter, in the worst shape I've ever been as a trainer, like, I never once had a client who hired me. It's because it's the opposite of the way they're doing it. Yeah, and so. They get offended by it. And this is a mistake that a lot of fitness people make,

is they allow that noise from other fitness peers to dictate how they build their business, when really, that's not your client. Right. Your client is Susie who is a stay at home mom with three kids and has about 20, 30 pounds that she needs to lose and is struggling to be consistent with her diet and does not want to be jacked and is like, she doesn't need, you know, steroided out fricking six pack AB atom to like get her healthy and she doesn't even want that. Yeah. so it's like we but we allow these this loud

minority that comments on social media and stuff like that to steer oh I need to look this way so I can impress what these fitness kids what you don't want what you don't want yeah authentic yes and what you don't want is to give off you know the other on the other side right is you don't want is to give off, on the other side, right, is you don't want to give off the impression that you don't practice what you preach. Yeah, that's right. Exactly.

That's basically it. That's the balance. That's the balance. And it makes sense. Look, if you're about to reflect that. Listen, I'm not taking financial advice from somebody who's broke. That's what I'm saying.

You're like, imagine it. Or a dentist, a dentist. I'm going to charge you 50 grand a year. I'm going to help with Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it.

Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it.

Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it.

Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. Imagine it. don't really have a passion for it. But again, the shredded, that probably does more, intimidates people more than it does. Now I think social media has changed the perception because so many people use their body to sell themselves. But that's also a terrible way to build a business

as a trainer or a coach. Well yeah, then you also too, you attach yourself to that. And I've watched this firsthand with a lot of our fitness friends that have built their business around exactly what their body looks like. And then there's this pressure of, oh, my god, what happens when I'm in a season of my life?

It's the least valuable thing coaches and trainers can even focus on. It's like, dude, solve their pain and dysfunction. You have those tools in your toolbox. And then that is going to spread and keep and retain clients more anything else You're doing that's such a that's such a good point I mean we've talked about this before like I mean I remember when I'm so mad that it took me as long as I did to get my NASM CES like

That certification probably came at year. I want to say six I should go back and look and see exactly when it was but it's the most valuable sir I ever go. Oh it like it was it was a total aha moment after I got it and realized how much of that knowledge I applied to my clients and how much more valuable I became as a coach and a trainer. It's correctional exercise. When people, the trainers think, get people to lose weight,

get people to build muscle, that's my value. That's some of your value. Correctional exercise, straight up, may be more valuable than any valuable than any of that. Being able to solve people's pain. It translates as a downstream effect to every other pursuit. Every other goal they have, it all relates to that. You start there, that's the core of it. And then everything else works so much better. I got more sales, more clients. I kept more clients because I could solve pain than weight loss. Well, and you've talked about this before,

it's the thing that you can do in a session. One session. Like you can't, I don't care how good of a trainer you are, you can be the best bodybuilding coach, the most knowledgeable nutritionist, you can't show somebody weight loss and weight gain in a visit. No, it's impossible.

But you can absolutely alleviate or help somebody with chronic pain in one session. Yeah, you show someone in the beginning whose back hurts, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes later with correctional exercise, oh, my back doesn't hurt nearly as much. Yes. Boom, value.

Huge. And again, going back to not listening to all the noise of the fitness peers and realizing that the average consumer, they care more about alleviating chronic pain than they care about having six-packs. That's just a fact. That's most people. The other cert that I think is more value, that has more value now than ever, so I think correctional exercise for sure. If I had to list my top most valuable in terms of what I was able to bring my clients and how I was able to build my business,

it would be the correctional exercise one. But close now I think are the nutrition certifications because of online coaching. Like the value of online coaching, so much of it is more of it is on nutrition than in person. You know in person more of the value is in like exercise and technique and you know when you're doing online,

like a lot of it is diet, a lot of it is nutrition. So now those sorts I think are more. Well yeah, when you're doing online, like a lot of it is diet, a lot of it is nutrition. So now those sorts I think are- Well yeah, when you talk about what moves a needle for an online coach, it is the nutrition. Because if they're virtual, they're taking cues from a video anyways, whether it's a video of you or something they found on YouTube. So they're having to basically teach themselves.

Versus nutrition, you can tell them like, hey, I want you to cut this out of your diet, add this to your diet, and your ability to be able to look and assess at a diet, to be able to get to the root cause of why somebody is or isn't seeing results is so valuable, so, so valuable. They're doing it for, they're giving, NASM by the way is giving the nutrition cert for free with the regular cert.

For free? Oh, that's pretty cool. So you get the right, you get the CBT, they're gonna give you the nutrition one. Oh, is that an offer for us? That's an offer right now for, yeah. That's great. Oh, that's sick, do they have to do anything special for that? Is it just you? No, you get the CBT, they go through our link, and then you you the nutrition one. Is that an offer for us? That's an offer right now for, yeah. That's great. Oh, that's sick.

Do they have to do anything special for that? No, you get the CBT, you go through our link and then you get the nutrition one. Oh wow. Yeah, which is good. That's one of the more, like I think for online coaching, again, that's, because you know, we all did nutrition, but we all trained most of our clients

for most of our career in person. And most of the value I brought people had to do with exercise. Yeah, and you could kind of discuss those things mid-session, so you kind of had that availability, but yeah, it definitely, to be able to move the needle at all, like talking about that online is a lot more. Speaking of moving the needle, we were in Florida, right,

for the Cabral event, which was great, reimagining Health Summit, that was good, good time, I had some really interesting, I met an oncologist at the dinner who treats cancer, I might try and get him on the show. Really, really, really smart guy, brilliant guy. But the thing I was gonna bring up was the gripper thing. Make sure to bring that up on the podcast. Ah, of course, of course.

We all moved way beyond that. I was like, where's your gripper? Like, he's hiding and he made sure they wouldn't go got it. Well, Dr. Cabral had told him. I asked him too. I said, we're the highest number two. Yeah, he asked him the record.

Dude, this is my strength. And Sal was on a mission to go prove that he can do it better than anybody. And I think you did. I think you beat it, right? I did. Yeah, I think you beat whoever the record was. Did you make sure to tell him yet?

Because I don't know if he knows. I told him and he's like, no way. I'm like, you told him right away. No, you did. That's for people, dude. I did. That's when we left and I'm like, where's. I'm like, yeah, that's the people that we left. And I'm like, where's the gripper test? Oh, it's so great.

Oh man. I can't talk shit because it is. Yeah. No, you're strong with that for sure. That's it. Yeah. It's crazy. One thing I got is crazy.

You get that grip. I can do any sport and then college athlete and they never were helicopter. Never done. Whenever a circus game shows up, I make sure to play it so I can do something. You own it, bro. I missed out on that dinner. I was out.

I was, uh, went met up with Katrina that night. Oh, how was Disney world? The Halloween thing. So it was cool. It was really cool. So that was a, so I would have never taken max to Disney world at this point in his age. I just think that one, I mean, I don't know. Do you guys remember much before age five?

Like, I think age five is kind of when you start to remember things, right? So first of all- I see pictures, I'm like, oh, I kind of remember. Yeah, okay, so I really feel like five up is when you start to have memories of most people. I mean, I know there's some anomalies of people. I remember four or three, some random kid

remembers some weird shit like that, but most people it's like five and above. Or if you're Howard, what's his name? Or he remembers being born. Yeah, I was like, get the fuck out of here. I would not want to remember that. Yeah. Oh, no, that's my mom.

So anyway, so the fact that he's barely five, so I already normally wouldn't have brought him to do that, too. My son is terrified of rides, so it's like, OK, why we do that? Well, he is obsessed with Halloween. Absolutely obsessed. And it was Katrina who's just like hey Disney World puts on this thing called not so scared Mickey's not so scary Halloween Which is like so up his alley because he loves Halloween, but he also doesn't want to be super freaked out either

So he's not like haunted house so I can go do that stuff But he like yeah, so he likes he likes Halloween stuff and so for that it was awesome They and I would say the best experience for me going there with him was the lights, the parade and the shows was what was so incredible. Was he into it? Yeah, so much into it. Like he, yeah he's now, one of his characters now

is Oogie Boogie from, yeah. Nightmare Before Christmas. Yeah, yeah, so he loves that character. And you know what, that's kind of creepy. When you watch that, it's like borderline. Yeah, yeah, so he loves that character. And you know what, that's kind of creepy. When you watch that, it's like borderline. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It can be a little scary. Yeah, yeah, so he's obsessed with-

Is he like the potato sack looking ghost guy? Yes, yes. Remember they tear him open and spiders come out? Yeah. And he traps- So what was kind of cool, the way this all happened, so the week before, and I think I showed this on the podcast where I took Max for the day

and we went and did the slime. We made slime. The other thing we did was, so we went and did slime and then I was gonna take him to get frozen yogurt and we walked by this store, the Stuff-A-Bear store, whatever it's called. Build-A-Bear. Build-A-Bear, that'd be Doug.

Doug knew right away. Stuff-em. That's that other place. Doug's built a few bears. I have actually. Don't go to the stuff a bear everybody. That's an adult story. Stuff it in the back.

Ow. So we go in that store and he of course, he's like is there any Halloween stuff? And then there's like three or four characters. One of them is Oogie Boogie. And he really wants to get it. I'm like oh no, let's go, let's get out of here. We're gonna go get yogurt with that. And he's just, daddy, no, let's go. Let's get out of here. We're going to go get yogurt with that.

And he's just, daddy, daddy, I really want it. I said, OK, here's the deal. I said, I'll get you that, but then no yogurt. It's one or the other. So I made him choose, which he said, OK, no yogurt. So he said no to yogurt, which I'm like, OK, I'd rather get you a toy anyways over ice cream anyways. So I went back and I got him Oogie Boogie.

That was his first experience with him. They put like a, you could put like a heart and you could put music so he talks and everything. So it played his song. That was just a week or two ago. Oh, now he gets to go see you. So he got obsessed with him and you know how kids are, I want to say find something like that.

Then he gets all obsessed. Watch all the videos. Yes, watch, went down the rabbit hole or so, you know, I'm listening to it on repeat fucking four times a day, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, we got that now and then we go to Disneyland and one of the main shows was kind of centered around his character. Oh, so he messed up.

Oh, he went so crazy. Oh, dude, he went, there's a cool picture. I don't know if you guys saw it. I actually posted it on my IG and his, where you can see both our faces are by each other and we're looking up. I saw it. So we're watching that, right at that moment.

And Katrina caught it. Thank god, because she never takes her camera out. I'm always giving her a hard time. She got one. Yeah, she did. I was like, you finally caught it. My son and I have all these great moments that I feel like I don't have that I haven't been able to

because my wife is not the camera person whatsoever. I'm the camera person. And so she pulled that out. She got it. I was so happy she did because he was so into that show. It was Hocus Pocus. And you can actually watch it on YouTube It's some and some people have videoed like like high-def video

So you could literally experience very similar what I experienced live on YouTube And yeah, they tell like I don't know like a 20-minute show and there's a whole scene where he comes out And he plays that song and he knows all the words. It was like it was great seeing him. I love that kid I was playing with us. There's a game I play with my son where I'll pretend to eat him, I'll call him my sandwich, and then he talks, I'm like, my sandwich is talking. I was playing the old man. Oh yeah.

He was dying, bro. He was cracking up. He's so good, bro, to travel with. Like I feel like- You know, it made me miss my kids, because I saw your boy started playing with him, I'm like, oh, I wanna play with him. He's such, he's like, I feel like he's like a little adult

when you take him away. I don't mind, I bring him to dinners when I have other adults, he just hangs out. He just hangs out and he does his thing and he's, he's, he's not loud. He's not obnoxious. He's not breaking things. Loving, happy little, little. Yeah. Just, he's so fun to, you know, I always wondered that like when I was in my

twenties and, uh, you know, long before I thought I was going to have a kid or not, you know, one of the things I always thought about this, I feel like I'm going to be, I'll have a business or a job where I have to travel a lot and do things and what am I going to do with a kid? Like I won't be able to have a kid. Kids are so difficult to take places and do this. I always had that perception in my head. I would have never imagined I would have had this kid that nine times out of 10, if I have

the option to bring him or leave him with family, I'll take him because he's just like, he's not a hassle. He's so. No, he's not hard to manage. No, no, he's so chill. Speaking to what you said about taking your kids somewhere and they don't remember it, you know, it's funny you said that, I was actually reading an article on that,

and it was a different topic, but it kind of hearkens to that. Because I used to think that too, like, why would I take my kid to this place, he's only two or three, he's not gonna remember it. They do. They don't remember it in the way that we do, where we talk about it, but those experiences definitely shape their attachment to their parents,

it shapes their central nervous system and their brain. So it's not a same memory like, oh, I remember we went on that ride, they're not gonna be able to do that, but their body remembers it. So those experiences are all positive. So that's a good point. Because I mean, and that was Katrina was like,

I think that he, especially since he has an attachment to a character, to have an attachment to a character like that, to see the character in real person, that excitement, that joy, like, that will stay with him somewhere or other, whether he visually remembers or can recall but that feeling I'm sure he'll Feel that well Ethan had a pretty memorable weekend. Dude. I saw the photos. Yeah, they look fake. They were so sick. It was Unbelievable. I can't like it was homecoming. I can't describe it without being

Fruity was one of the one of the most beautiful sunset pictures I've ever seen. It was so epic, dude. Yeah, it was kind of funny because it was like, I'm like, buddy, you better take this in. It's not going to be this good for your prom. I guarantee it, dude. Justin's like, he peaked his freshman year. Yeah, he peaked, bro.

I mean, he just started kind of dating this girl and asked her to this homecoming. And so we went to her house and met her parents and the nice people. And it was, it wasn't awkward. I was like, Oh, thank God. You know, who knows? Like, how this is going to go down. Uh, and I borrowed my dad's car. And so we got to kind of, I drove them to the event and it was great. I had this moment. It was pretty, I was like cracking myself up because I'm driving and you know, they're in the backseat.

I remember this was the same car that I got to borrow for my prom. Oh, my girlfriend. I was in the backseat, you know, that's where he is. And then I look up in the rear view mirror. I have a mustache, my dad had a mustache and I was like, Oh, I just turned it to my dad. And I like told them that and they didn't get, you know, they're like, what are you talking about? But I had a, I'm like, I'm having a moment right now. You know, like this is trippy. Oh dude, I have, I have a good, uh, Justin mustache story for you guys that happened. So we were, uh, you, you got worried. Oh, you and

Doug went and had, um, breakfast at the, when we were at the pool. So we stay at this, uh, we stayed at a very cool hotel actually, Dr. Cabral's place where it was right at the road from Disney World. Very, very family oriented, like the pool was sick, huge, like three, four pools, water slide, big rock waterfall stuff, tons of kids and families and stuff like that. Real cool place. And me, Justin and Katrina and Max all went to the pool while Doug and Sal went to breakfast. And I'm getting Max already,

and we're getting our suntan lotion on and stuff like that. And Justin goes in the pool. And before I even get ready and get back to the pool, Justin comes walking back and I'm like, "'Oh, is it too cold or what's up?' And he's like, "'No, no, no, my time expired.'" Like, what do you mean your time expired? He goes, "'Yeah, yeah, you can only linger around a kid's pool

with a mustache by yourself as a guy for so long. Yeah. Because you're by yourself? Yeah, dude. He's like, yeah, with this mustache and by myself as a guy in a kid's pool, he's like, you know. I'm very self-aware. Yeah, I was like, that was very self-aware, dude.

I was like, that was good. Just sitting there, just kind of, you know. Wait, I shouldn't be here. I got to move on. It's cause you're a dad. Like if your kids were in the pool and some random dude was just chilling in the kids' pool. Yeah. Yeah. After about five minutes. It didn't dawn on me until he said that. I'm like, I guess that's a really, that's a really self aware good point there because yeah, who's the mustache guy in the pool by himself? I didn't want to be that guy. With no kid. I know I started laughing. You ever see, I mean, who's the mustache guy in the pool by himself? I didn't want to be that guy. With no kid. It's hilarious.

I know, I started laughing. I mean, it's true. If you're at a theme park or something, and there's like a random man by himself. Yeah, yeah. Like, what are you doing? I know. I felt like I was like, you could borrow Max

for a little bit if you want to go back to the pool. Yeah, if I had Max with me, it would have probably been a little different. Of course, of course. Yeah, it makes total sense. At least an uncle. When my oldest was a little one, his uncles realized that if they took him out,

they'd get way more girls' phone numbers. Did I ever tell you guys about this? No. Well, my oldest was, cause he's 19 now, but when he was real little, they'd be like, hey, can we take him for a walk to the park? I'm like, oh, he's just nice, nice uncles, right? After two or three of these, I was like,

what's going on? They're like, dude, girls talk to us like crazy. That's right. Can we borrow him again? Yeah, I've got this cute little kid with a- Having a kid or a puppy, those are like the, that's the move when you're a kid like that. And then they'll tell him, oh no, he's just our nephew.

Oh, you're so good with kids. Yeah, yeah. Can we borrow them all the time? No. No, you can't do that. What happened with, you had a note about Max doing something on the stairs? Oh, bro.

Oh my god, he fell down the stairs. Oh. He fell down the stairs. Oh wait, you told, OK, he's OK. Yeah, I know, I mentioned to you guys off air about it. But you know, you've brought this up before. In fact, it was your stair story where you talked about you almost ripped the rail off.

It is wild. And I don't want more of them. But it is a trip. It's almost an out-of-body experience when you have a scary moment with your kid like that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. When I replayed it afterwards, it was almost like everything was in slow motion. body experience when you have a scary moment with your kid like that. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

When I replayed it afterwards, it was almost like everything was in slow motion, but I was all the way on the couch. Katrina's mom was over at our house, and she had just came over. We had just got back, and they were coming down our stairs, and I hear her mom scream, and Katrina was right by the stairs, too. And then I hear Katrina yell and I hear him, I hear the tumbling and I'm all the way in my living room, my living room all the way to the stairs. I don't know how many, that's probably a good 20, 30 feet away or

what do I thought. But I was there like with before he could get tumbled down the stairs. I was already like reaching to go catch him with Katrina and I was like, how the hell did I get there? And I did feel like my growing, felt like I pulled it. But your ability when that happens, it's wild. Well, because you heard the scream, you heard the bumping. So you're for sure like. Yeah, you don't even think anymore.

It's just instantly you're going that way. It's like, I wish there was like video of like how I moved to do that. I don't even know how I got from there to there. And that should have been. I feel like a lot of dads have that story, right? I think so too. I've heard that from other people too. I've had moments like there, you hear those crazy stories

where the mom picks the kids, picks the car up for the kid. It's a trip what you're capable of doing in a moment of like how much fear is a motivator like that. Jessica has that turned on all the time. All the time. All the time. It doesn't, like it'll fall, it'll cry, whatever, right? A little bit of whatever, and she's like, boom, she's there. And then she's like, why aren't you moving?

And I'm like, well, I don't, it didn't sound like, because it has to, there's a certain kind of scream, and a certain kind of fall, that if I see that, like the other day I was playing with my kids, in fact I didn't even tell my wife we were playing, and my daughter was running on the couch, and she looked like she was falling backwards off the couch and you better believe I reached with like lightning speed and grabbed her

real quick. But you know, regular falls and stuff. But yeah, my wife, any fall, she'll be across the house and you'll see her fly through the house. I definitely feel like there is different screams and cries as the kids have. And there's definitely different noises in the house. Breathing and... Like every noise in the house doesn't get me to run down the stairs, but some of them, if it sounds like someone's in the house or there's a certain kind of sound, then I'm there. Usually I'm like, eh, it's... Yeah, there's definitely like a different type of a cry that he can do that will like really,

really get me going versus ones where I was just like, oh yeah, he's frustrated or he was saying, oh, mosey on over there versus where there's ones. And that was like, you could hear the fear in his cry as he was tumbling down the stairs and you can hear. But he just fell on his butt. Yeah, luckily what happened was, so I tell you guys this, he said like, we've had the massage table out

because Katrina's been massaging me. So like his new thing is now, is getting a massage. So like, you know, after he gets out of the bath. Yeah, so he's like, he tells Katrina and I, I want a massage, can I get a massage? And so Katrina, I mean, he's a kid, right? So he has no patience, so he can sit there for like, it's like a three minute massage, right?

But he's hilarious, because he's obviously watched his mom massage me and he hears me and so that. So he's like, oh yeah. Oh, yeah Right there and I'm like barely you know say oh, yeah right there dad. It's like, oh my god So yeah, no, he's been he's been getting his massages I don't know why I was telling you that but oh his new thing is to get a massage from Katrina and I when we get out of there No, you were saying when he fell he was okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, he's he's he's crazy How kids can fall and just not get hurt most of time?

Yeah, cuz if I fall in any shape way shape or form, it's probably gonna be an injury. Yeah Well, there's two you overreact. There's just big and heavy Okay, then there's three things you think. There's two big and heavy. Well, there's two. Well, there's, okay, then there's three things we think about. There's how big and heavy we are. There's also the distance, right? You fall from six feet down the ground. That's a long, yeah, there's like a tipping over, right, type of deal. And they're so flexible, pliable at that age. I mean, you could bend them and move them all over the place where we're all stiff and old. So it's like, yeah, a lot of times those falls that you would think would be really bad. A lot of times they just bounce right back up.

Like it's especially now too, with like gymnastic background. Like, so I told you guys when I, cause I was apprehensive about Everett doing skateboarding and all that. Cause it's just like, dude, it's all concrete. It's all like iron and all this. And he's just like, every time he attempts it, he goes like a hundred percent, you know, and he's just like trying to jump and iron and all this. And he's just like every time he attempts it, he goes like 100%. You know, and he's just like trying to jump and land and do, and I'm always like, oh shit, something's gonna happen. And then one time, you know, you think it's gonna happen,

he rolls out of it or he pops up into a handstand and I'm just like, oh, he's gonna be just fine. Oh, that's massive. Yeah, he gets off balance, but then boom, he sticks it. Oh, that's great. That's why that's such such a great. That's why such a great foundation. Yeah. Like that probably forever now. Yeah. He's got he's got that. I was so worried because I mean, that's why I didn't I didn't get into skateboarding is I ate it way too many times. And I'm just like, this isn't like worth the punishment. You know, like this is where helmets now. Yeah, yeah. It's yeah, because he he went all like almost like he was doing vert, you know, like he had like the knee Pads he had the elbows. He had like the and I mean Courtney was kind of pushing that I was you know, like helmets fine, you know like everything else like you're gonna get it banged up a bit, but He's starting to peel those off now. He doesn't do it with the knees the elbows. It's just a helmet so kids now pretty much all wear helmets when they do stuff like that most of them

I don't know really yeah, cuz when we were here that are like When we were kids if you wore a helmet you get bullied gay Nobody wore a helmet don't be the kid with the helmet on everybody make fun. That's kind of coming back. Is it really? I hate to break it to you. Oh no. The cool kids are starting to take over again. Really? They're like, hey!

I was like that, but hey! Oh man. All you gotta do is see one guy hit his head real hard and then change your mind. Yeah. Scary like that. Real quick. I wanted to wait till we podcasted to bring this up

because I had at least three or four DMs. I saw it was in our forum, and I saw that Element had an article that came out, and people were up in arms about something. Now, when I first read it, I was like, is this really that big of a deal, or is this an example of where people blow something out of proportion?

But I sent it to you right away, because I wanted to hear your opinion on it, and what is, first of all, what was it that everybody was up and arms? Something about multidextrin. Multidextrin was inside. Now, they claimed, they said it was in there, just not that much.

Is that what I understood? So what they're arguing, what the controversy is over, is over a four or 500 milligram amount of maltodextrin in a packet of LMNT. Just so everybody understands what that is. It's less than half of a gram of maltodextrin. It's less than you would even have to report on any label. FDA, if you want to put zero grams of sugar or carbs,

that would definitely qualify. It's so low. So this is an example, we've talked about this before on the podcast, like I cannot believe it's butter, says it's zero calories. It's really not zero calories, it's a half calorie. It's so low. It's so low that they can get away with saying it's zero

and so of course they report zero. So here's an example of something where they're, and because I know that's what people are upset is like, why wouldn't they disclose or report it? Well they don't, this FDA doesn't force them to. No and it's so low now they said they thought it was lower so their reporting came back from their manufacturers who said oh it's less than that but it turns out it's a little more but it's still so

low it doesn't matter it's still zero. Even at the hundred times because I know that was a hundred times so five milligrams to five hundred milligrams it's a hundred times more but five 500 milligrams is half of a gram. So even at the exaggerated amount, it's still a half a gram. Correct, now if somebody has some extreme No, I saw, I actually saw all the diabetic people and all the glucose monitor people all say

that they take it every day and it's never. It doesn't affect their blood sugar. It won't, it won't. Now some people might have an allergic reaction, a maltodextrin or something like that. In those extreme cases I could see, okay, you probably wanna see it. But it's nothing, it doesn't matter.

And of course the reason why everybody's mad is because it wasn't reported. I also saw part of the controversy too was that when they first called him out, then the guy who works for Element that originally responded on a tweet is not even somebody who's like part of like the formulation and like, you know, basically spoke at a turn and said,

no, it's only got this much. And then when they actually tested it, it comes back that it's a hundred times whatever he quoted and said. And so everybody is like jumping on that. One, it wasn't disclosed. Two, the guy said it was it was less than this and then it comes back a hundred times and a hundred times just sounds... It sounds like crazy. Sounds crazy. But a hundred times takes it from zero to half a gram essentially. It's a half a

gram. In other words, if you took if you took four packets of element tea a day which is more than you would that's 4,000 milligrams of sodium You probably want to stick to one or two, but let's just say you did four packets a day You have a combined total of two grams of multidextrin two grams Yeah, which is nothing and if you look at other And now here's here's the part that makes me kind of like, okay, everybody relax. This wellness space can be so attacking itself over the smallest little things. Eating themselves from within.

Yeah, dude. It's like, it doesn't matter. And I think what Elementee is saying, if I'm not mistaken, is hey, they reported to us, the people at Make It, that it was less than we thought. But it's also less than half, it's a half. I think it's important too, because I had a lot of people too that said

they wanted to hear our opinion on it because they trust our view view on it because if you've been listening to us long enough You know the story it goes all the way back to when we first started working with organify Organified is one of our biggest partners. They have been for shit almost eight years now, I think And there was an article that came out that said that a lot of these big organic companies had all kinds of metals. Heavy metals. Heavy metals in it. And we right away called them and was like, you gotta test and find out if you have this

because we're not okay with heavy metals being in there. And we would drop a brand. A brand, by the way, pays us four times the amount that Element does to do that. We would definitely drop that over something like that that we think is a bigger deal. This is something that's- And they did test everything and there was no-

Yeah, yeah, so that was the- But no, like again, so people get confused. By the way, supplement companies used to do this back in the day to make things appear either more or less than they are. So remember, milligrams to grams. It takes a thousand milligrams to make one gram. So if you want to have one gram of carbs or one

gram of fat or whatever, it's going to be a thousand milligrams of that thing. Micrograms are even smaller. So a company could say this has, you know, 500 micrograms of something, which is less than a milligram, which is a one one one one hundredth of a gram. And it can make it look like it's a lot because it's a microgram But no we count carbs proteins and fats or sugars in grams one gram of sugar is 1,000 milligrams. Okay, this has half of that. So it's half of a gram Yeah of carbs you wouldn't even add that in your if you're tracking your calories. You wouldn't even put that in there So it's it's So it's basically zero.

It's basically zero. You get a sodium, magnesium, potassium, and you get a dose of sodium that is sufficient to make a difference. That's the big deal. I mean, the thing that right away came to mind for me, before I even sent it to you and started digging it, I'm like, oh, this just shows you how competitive

the electrolyte market is getting right now. Well, LM&T changed the game, it's why. They introduced a product that was a thousand, nobody had the balls, excuse my language, to put a thousand milligrams of sodium in anything. Cause everybody's so scared of sodium. The makers of Elemente are like, no, no, we understand how sodium works.

We understand how, especially with low carb dieters, people who don't eat heavily processed foods, people who are exercising a lot, like if they're going to take something with electrolytes, you want more sodium than 100 milligrams, you're gonna want a thousand, you're gonna want a gram of sodium in there. And they did, and they proved the model,

and it's crushing, and it crushed. And now you get a lot of competition copycats, and they're trying to poke fun at them by saying things like, our sodium is better, and yours has this, and we have this. It's like, all right, everybody relax. That's funny. Do we have it's like all right everybody relax. Do we have a shout out?

Yeah why don't you guys shout out the doctor that you guys met who I didn't get a chance to meet. You guys said she was AC. Yes, yeah yeah. What's her Instagram? She's a functional dentist. I'm excited to hopefully meet her because everybody from our team that got a chance

to speak with her said she was pretty awesome and so I know I'm the one. I'm shouting out somebody I haven't even met but I can tell just from you guys and what you said about her it sounds like she'd be really cool to have on the show so it's Dr. underscore Stacey ST ACI now did you guys say she's like an orthodontist or dentist or what was Dennis so explain. Functional dentist. So explain to me what's a functional dentist versus a? Yeah, she's gonna have to explain that. Do they not use like, you know, a holistic approach? Holistic.

Holistic approach and she really like educates to the health of the gums, a lot of the indications that we ignore and there's other like practices that she was describing to us about like kind about sealing cavities and allowing them to heal and different approaches that takes. She really described the dentists industry as the most archaic, barbaric practice.

I've been saying that for a while. Exactly. That's why it's like, Adam's going to love you. Yeah. Yeah. He's been talking mad trash. And she's like, I'm all for it. So it's like, it's going to be good. To give you. Yeah, yeah, he's been talking mad trash. And she's like, I'm all for it. It's gonna be good.

To give you an example, be like, using fluoride to prevent cavity formation or using hydroxyapatite, I think it's called, which actually remineralizes your teeth and helps you regrow or heal cavities, which they never talked about before. So that would be functional. I remember, I've had so many weird dentist stories,

and so I remember when I was drinking those Rockstars every day and I started to get like, the acidity was eating at my teeth. And I didn't even have to fill it or anything just by getting rid of it, flushing my mouth, it healed itself and I'm like, oh I didn't even know that was possible. I thought once you had like a cavity or something like that,

you had to, yeah, you have it, oh you gotta fill it. And it's just like, oh, I didn't even know that was possible. I thought once you had like a cavity or something like that, you had to believe. Yeah, you have it. Oh, you got to fill it. And it's just like, oh, no, your teeth will actually heal and grow back. Like, if you allow it. She was talking about not even using like Novocaine and like needles and like drilling

and being able to use lasers. And I'm like, I'm going to ask you all about that one. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Oh, very cool. It'll be cool. It'll be really good. There's your shout out.

Element tea is an electrolyte powder. add to your water that gives you the right amount of sodium. Look most electrolyte powders out there don't have enough sodium to really make a difference. You need the sodium. You need it for muscle contractions. You need it for better pumps. You need it for performance. Of course it also has potassium and magnesium. No sugar, no artificial sweeteners, but it tastes amazing. Go check them out. Go to drinklmnt.com forward slash mind pump. On that link, you'll get a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase.

All right, here comes the show. Our first caller is Nils from Hungary. Nils, what's going on, man? What's going on, Nils? What's for dinner? Hello, guys. How can we help you? Pumpkin and chicken breast.

So pretty basic. I like that. That works. It's local here. So how can we help you? So it's nice to see you guys after listening to you for like four years. So I will stick to the question, get right into it.

I'm 28 years old, digital nomad. I've been listening to you guys for four years now. Just want to say it's crazy how 4-5 strangers can have such a huge impact on a young guy's life and on the other side of the world. At the moment I'm in Hungary. So since tuning in I've commuted to the Transformation Training. I'm actually excited about the idea of becoming a dad someday. I didn't want to do it before and I've even started going to the church again which is a big transition for me. So for the question, despite being highly active and diligent with my

fitness and nutrition I'm struggling with really low energy levels and which got a little bit better by now. A bit of background, I used to train intensely for special forces in Germany with 12 to 14 sessions a week. But then I got into a little bit of a motorcycle accident and so I was unsuitable for this dream. I mean, I recovered by then, but but don't train that intensely by now. Now I train for about 90 minutes a day, push pull-ups with some cardio once or twice a week and on the rest days I usually do like an ab workout, some light cardio or something

like this. I track my calories, which is around 2500 calories a day and focus on protein. On the other hand, I like to work a lot. I work 10 to 12 hours a day and had a little bit of a problem with caffeine, but it's turned it down a bit by now. And yeah, that's it overall. And yeah, that's a bit of all and yeah, I try to get my energy levels back, but I'm still struggling like it's a since two years now and it's getting better, I think, but very really slowly with many pushbacks along the way. Okay, so the main issue is energy, you just feel like your

energy is really low. Correct. Yeah, For how's that? Yeah. How tall and how much do you weigh? I mean, I already know that you're way over trained based off of your work hours and the 90 minute sessions and what you got going on, but give me your height and, and weight. So I know how bad it is. So it's in European metrics and one meter 93, which is I think six foot three or six foot four

and then 95 kilos. So like 200 pounds? Yeah, you're a big boy. So whenever somebody has just kind of persistent low energy, there's a list of things you want to look at and there's a priority of where you start. And the reason why that you start with some things and then move down a list is because the things you start with tend to be the issue and if those aren't the issue then you move down the list until you find

the problem. At the top of this whenever somebody says to me I'm just having persistent low energy and they're active the first thing I do is I look at their workout, their training, their work schedule and I back off on it. That's the first thing that I do. The first thing I would do is back off on that. Second thing I would look at and I think this might even be tied for one is their sleep. How consistent is your sleep? Is it good? Are you getting poor sleep? The third thing is diet. Are you eating enough? Are you lacking any nutrients? Are you feeding your body appropriately? And the way we look at that as a context of activity,

plus your goals, your current body size, whether you're male or female. And based off of everything you've told us. All three, he checks. Yeah, you know, sleep wise. So we haven't talked about your sleep. How is your sleep? So that's one thing I'm really persistent.

I always sleep if I'm at the same hours, so eight hours a night, um, sometimes seven, sometimes a bit more. So I think this one I have in check. Okay. You're, you're, you're probably working out too much and eating too little. I mean, a guy, your size, your height doing 90 minutes, six days a week of strength training, plus some cardio. 2500 calories is low. And I don't know very many people that can consistently train for an hour and a half strength training. Now maybe in short

spurts, you know like a month or two, but then you got a back way down, you're most likely over trained. In fact I bet if you took a week off and increased your calories and then went back to maybe like a three day a week routine, you'd probably see your energy levels rectify within a short period of time, within a week or two. Yeah, I bet a Maps 15 protocol would change everything for him, going from a 90 minute workout

to a 20 minute workout, too effective. I mean, Nils, I don't know if you're paying attention to the series I'm doing on Mind Pump TV, but you and I are about the same. We're actually really close. I was 199 pounds, I'm six foot three, and you watch me go through this process, and it's two exercises a day, five days a week,

sometimes six, so and that's it. There's nothing else on top of that. And I started only eating 22, about 2200 calories and reversed my way all the way back to 3200 calories. So it increased by a thousand calories only doing two exercises a day, five to six days a week. Never going to failure. Always probably lifting at 60 to 70 percent intensity at most and built significant muscle and lost body fat in that time. And so you're just way, way overdoing it for everything. We didn't even mention the 10 to 12 hours a day of work also. And I'm not sure what you do for

work, but even if it's not a laborious job, 10 to 12 hours mentally can be very draining and is considered a stress and so you have to understand that all these all these things that we're doing physically or mentally count as as stress and when your stress bucket gets overfilled the body is just going to revolt and you're not going to see the results whether it's building muscle or burning body fat that you want to see. How long have you been working out this way? So I thought I was doing not that much compared to what I was doing before.

So I thought it was in the lower end and now like the maps 20 minutes sounds. I of course know what's about, what's it about, but it's 20 minutes sounds, of course, know what's it about, but it's, no, my, it sounds scary. Well, I mean, consider this, Niels. Again, how long have you been working out like this, or how long have you been working out more than this? How long has it been? Two years years maybe. So here's what it probably looked like. I'll just paint the picture okay. You were doing more than this and

at first you were okay because you could tolerate it and then it started to feel like you were burnt out so you cut it down to 90 minutes a day and then you felt a little better but now you're starting to feel burnt out again. It's all too much. It's all too much. Now, you can train like this for short stints, but not all the time. And what you don't want to do is get caught in the trap of,

well, that person did that, and I could do this before and whatever, because you're just kind of digging a hole little by little. And so you're in a place now where you got to back way off. Also keep in mind that when you were training for special forces, the desired outcome is very different than when you're trying to build a physique or create a healthy fitness routine. You know, they care less about, you know,

your body fat percentage and how you look on, you know, in the mirror. They care more about your resiliency, your ability to take a beating and still be able to fire a gun and get up and go. Like totally different goal. It's not about physical fitness. I mean if you look at special forces training, everybody that gets into that is fit. The ones that last are the ones that have the mental fortitude and that's what they're testing. But yeah nonetheless, here's how you'll know, Niels. Don't be afraid, because here's what's gonna happen.

Do what we say, you'll know within two weeks. And you won't lose muscle in two weeks. You could take two weeks off, you're not gonna lose any muscle. You could take four weeks off and you wouldn't lose any muscle. But back way off within the first week or two, you'll know, you'll feel it.

I can almost guarantee you'll see an energy increase with this new protocol. It's just been the case with everybody. We've moved in that direction. Even us personally, it was really eye-opening. We didn't think it was going to have that much impact. It was just like an option. Oh, let's create something that's

convenient for people to work out. But what turned out was this was actually more effective for most people than it was even the three day protocol. That's right. So you just gotta trust. We're gonna send that over to you, Nils, okay? And I really want you to trust,

if you've been listening to us for a long time, I hope we've built some trust with you. Hopefully, if you've stuck around for as long as you have. Okay, so hopefully you believe that we kind of know what we're doing And if I mean just give give me 30 days, even though I think it'll be sooner But give me 30 days of following maps 15 and get your calories. Yeah 2800 calories, I would even just a little bump just bump your calories a couple hundred and go to maps 15 and that right there You should instantly feel a difference in the within the first week or two. Yeah

You feel weak like I'm sorry for the I've seen like a pussy, you know, if it just a train so little Go to the YouTube channel mind pump TV and pick up and watch the the series I'm creating right now I'm documenting my whole process. And so if you feel like that like trust me, I feel like it too I actually talk about that in there too. So Watch it Yeah, I will I will all right. All right, we're gonna send that over to you Neil Yeah Bump the calories by at least 200 calories follow maps 15 the way it's laid out the advanced version

And then I'd love to hear from you in like 30 days And then I'll have Doug also send you a link to the docu series so you can watch that too do those things And then I promise you'll be happy in 30 days I Will I will I will stick to it days, even though it's scary. I'm trying my best. All right. You got it.

Completely different discipline. Thank you guys. You got it man, thank you. Have a nice day, bye bye. You too. Yeah. I hope he does it. Well, you know.

Doug, send him the link to the series. We developed this interesting, especially for your fanatic, you develop a relationship with your exercise program where you're afraid to, especially if you're a fanatic, you develop a relationship with your exercise program where you're afraid to, something inside you makes you afraid to let it go. Is it the loss of progress? Is it the attachment you develop to the routine of it? I mean, it could be that, any of those things

are all the above, but it's very clear what's happening. I mean, look, I'm gonna be straight up. Everybody listening to this right now, everybody. Very few people can work out strength training six days a week for years and not reach this point. It just doesn't happen. Most people, I mean, if you're really fit, good diet, good sleep, like everything's dialed in,

you could do sprints like this, you know, 60 days, 90 days, but you gotta go back to something that's more appropriate. Homeostasis, man. I mean, 90 minutes a day for six days a week for two years. I mean, I would be fried after two, three months of training that way. And we didn't really dive into what kind of job he does,

but 12, 14 hour days of work is. Yeah, especially if it's labor intensive. And then the whole self judgment thing, like I feel like a pussy or I feel like a, huh? You're not, this isn't a competition. Yeah, well that's like the military discipline drilled into his head. Right, but discipline works both ways.

Yeah, absolutely. And one way it's making it happen, the other way is knowing when to stop. So you can lack discipline either direction. You're not gonna feel like a big pussy when you're way stronger Well, that's I just say the exciting part about this is put all those emotions and feelings and nervousness Whatever aside and if you just trust the process for 30 days the results are So big that you're like, what was I doing? It's a very obvious switch. And it's not hard to stick with it after that because if it's the disbelief is what it is. So

you were trying to like put like, you know, what is it? I don't know. Like it's the disbelief that you could actually work that little and see that good of results. But once you do, it's always a big aha moment for people of like, oh shit, I literally was spinning my wheels, not even realizing it, and I could be doing so much, and then, because his energy will go up, his strength will go up, you'll see a difference in his body composition, I mean, everything will go in the right direction.

You gotta concede and you gotta believe in it. Our next color is Olivia from Miami. Hi, Olivia. How you doing, Olivia? Michigan. Oh, really, it says Miami on here. Oh my God, that's funny. She's doing, Olivia? How can we help you? Oh really, it says Miami on here. Oh my God, that's funny. She's like, I wish.

I wish Miami. I'd probably have a lot easier time training from what I'm about to explain. So my question is, I am a bodybuilder. So you guys know what that training looks like. And I have done two fitness competitions and we have I have three children. And my husband is kind of like, okay, like, let's transition to something different. And I said, Okay, let's go hike the Grand Canyon. And

so he said, Okay, sure. And we saw we decided to hike it in one day. And we started looking into it and we're like, okay, we better, you know, I was a division one athlete in volleyball and, but I am 41 years old. So I'm like, well, we better train for this because as you know, as a bodybuilder, like, you know, cardio really isn't my number one go-to. So I'm just, my question is,

what should training look like to continue to lift like a bodybuilder, but to really get ready to hike the Grand Canyon all in one day. Give me an idea on how many miles is it? Yeah. How, what's the, yeah, what's the length of this thing? So, so rim to rim is 24 miles with, um, over 8,000 feet in elevation change.

Okay. You know, you're overthinking it. Let me tell you why. If you train like a bodybuilder, you probably have pretty high volume style training, especially for your lower body. Yeah. Hiking is not like a super hardcore cardio activity

for someone who trains. It's energy conservation. Like a bodybuilder. Like in fact, I mean, it would be hard, but you could probably just do it right now core cardio activity for someone who trains. Energy conservation. Like a bodybuilder. In fact, I mean, it would be hard, but you could probably just do it right now without any training. Now, if you really want to make it easier and actually train for it, I would just practice hiking quite a bit, rucking would be good, and just back off on the strength training. You could do a MAPS 15 style training know, style training, or you could strength train once a week, twice a week, and then do like two long hikes.

A week. I mean, here's what's really exciting about somebody who's, I just saw a picture of your physique, you look incredible, and so somebody, and I'm assuming you've got years, if not decades, of strength training underneath your belt. One of the most, one of my favorite studies we've ever shared on here is the amount of training volume

required to keep your physique, right? So it's very difficult, you obviously know how hard it was to build the body that you currently have right now. Probably took years in consistency for a very long time. The beautiful thing is it takes one seventh the volume. So to put that in perspective, let's pretend that you train seven days a week, one hour a day every day.

You could train one hour a week, that's it, and maintain that physique. So in the context- Yeah, that's where it's at. So, so, so- And that's where it's hard. So think about that. So, and you don't necessarily need to scale

all the way back to that, but that just puts into perspective how little it takes to keep what you've done. And so what you could literally do is drop 50% of your training volume from where it's currently at. And then you could replace it with some, you know, these hour hikes that you do, like either the rucking,

like Sal suggested, or inclineline or stair master to build some. What's rucking? Rucking you put on a backpack. Weighted backpack, yeah. And you put some weight in there. Okay. Because if you're gonna be hiking, I'm assuming you'll have a backpack on with some supplies.

Yes. Yeah, and I mean, so here's the deal. You have the fitness to do these hikes. What you probably lack is the skill of hiking with a backpack on and that kind of stuff. That's all. So I would do a couple hikes a week for, you know, eight miles. You don't go crazy, you know, an eight mile hike with a backpack on. So you can get used to the backpack, know how to place it, where to hold it,

kind of how to hold your positioning, um, back off on the strength training just cause you're going to be doing, you know, more hiking. But I mean, to be honest with you, if you're in body... This is an event though too. So this is something where you're going to expand all your energy and output then during the event. So this is leading up to that. You don't really need to get that close to that type of exertion. It's not going to do you well anyways. So just to barely touch it, like Sal is saying, get into the skill of it and actually the efficiency and that's really it. like Sal is saying, like get into the skill of it and actually like the efficiency, you know,

and that's really it. I would be more concerned if you were like a power lifter and you rarely trained outside of like four reps or if you plan on running this rather than hiking it. But if you train bodybuilder style, high volume, your reps are getting to the 15, 20 rep range, the altitude might be a little bit of a challenge, but really the only way to get ready,

you know, get used to that is to actually, you know, train in altitude. But you know- What about walking backwards on a treadmill? What do you think about that? I mean, that's fine. If you have, do you have knee pain? You have knee issues?

Stability issues or anything? Well, I mean, I am old. You're 41 and you're fit. I mean, if we were to be more prescriptive, it would look like this, right? I mean, here, if you guys agree, there would be a, you would scale back on the strength training. That's the first and foremost. You need to back off that volume.

And I would back off as much as 50% of what you're currently doing and you'll still keep that physique. And then I would do three hikes a week, a low, a medium and a high. And your high is still only eight to 10 miles. So you're never pushing beyond that right now. And, and a low, I don't know, would be somewhere two to three,

and then a four to five range. And then maybe an eight, eight mile range three times a week. Like do that. And, and, and then, and then reduce the training volume by 50%. Yeah. Your shoes. That's it. lot of it is going to be your shoes. That's it. It's going to be your shoes, the friction, like all that kind of stuff is like what you got to get

acclimated to. So to emulate that as much as possible is going to be good. That's the skill part. And that's the three times a week, low, medium, and high. It fits right in with Adam. Yeah, because what will happen is you'll take somebody who's relatively fit, they'll go on a long hike, and then they'll be like, Oh yeah, that was kind of hard.

But the big problem was just having straps to the backpack were just causing problems or my shoes. Oh my God. After mile five, my feet got messed up. So I just went to Jackson Hole. This just happened to me. I, and we went on a, I dunno, it was probably a four mile hike. Uh, totally easy for me. Condition wise, the altitude got me a little bit. You know what it was? I, my right side, my foot and ankle and everything was sore shit. Just because I was wearing chucks,

not the right gear. Getting trained for. Yeah, I just, you know, like an idiot, I didn't prepare, well I didn't even know we were gonna do it. So a little bit of a defense on my part. But point being is I'm just pointing out what Sal's saying is that that was the main thing.

Had I conditioned my feet my ankles Wearing the proper attire did it a few times before like something close to that volume lines It would have been a breeze But I paid for it a little bit because I didn't do any of that and and but you'll be you'll be fine You do that three times a week do the protocol I told you low medium high day of hiking put the boots on put a backpack on you'll be fine. Yep day of hiking, put the boots on, put a backpack on, you'll be fine. Yep. Okay, awesome.

Well, awesome. Well, I appreciate you guys. You guys are awesome. Olivia, what? You guys are the ones that made me get back into fitness and- Are you following any of our- What was that? Are you following any of our maps programs right now?

No, I kind of just do everything and all the things. I love to see you follow like an advanced maps 15 right now. Yeah, that would be great. Just for this time period. When are you doing the hike? Well, we are actually supposed to do it this October, but my sister-in-law actually passed away. And so now we're doing it.

So now we have like nine more months to train for it. Oh, wow. Nine months? Which is awesome. You don more months to train for it. Oh, wow. Nine months? Which is awesome. You don't need to prepare that far ahead of us. But we have Michigan winters too. Yeah. Yeah, but you're over to- Yeah, so it's the Michigan winter that-

I would practice hiking like maybe five, six weeks out. As long as you're working out this whole time, you'll be fine. Okay. Yeah, and then that's when you could transition. That's when you would transition over to, at MAPS 15 is when you get like six weeks out. Honestly, again, the challenge would be

if you were running it, or if you were hiking back to back to back days, that's when it starts to become a problem. But if you're bodybuilding, you're already training high volume for your lower body. Like one long hike on one day, you'll be fine. The next day you'll be sore, but you'll be fine a key thing too I mean this is getting way ahead of ourselves is nine months away but you

want to go into it so I would probably cut my weight training the week before oh yeah so you're fully fresh going into the hike so you do the thing do the protocol like we said do the protocol like we said the week before your day on the hike cut the training no more no more training and just let your body beat go to it fully fresh you'll be ready you'll crush it you'll crush it okay cool well awesome I'm excited awesome all right that's great thanks for calling in well thank you so much you got it be a, you know, again, if she was gonna do, if she's like, we were gonna hike, you know, 20 miles a day for seven days.

Okay, now we gotta try. Or if I had to run it. Or run it. And I had a time, I was trying to beat that one. Yeah, but like, you know, if you're bodybuilding trend, you compete and you train with that kind of volume, you'll be okay, it'll be hard. But honestly, the big considerations are what I said,

shoes, backpack, like how those things feel in the body. That's exactly what fucked me up, was my shoes, and it was nothing to do with my ability to do the hike, that was easy, it was the fact that I didn't have the proper attire and my feet weren't used to walking over rocks like that, and chucks, not smart. Our next caller is Mozi from Virginia.

Mozi, what's happening? Hi, how are you guys? Good. So thanks for having me and I'll go ahead start it. I have some notes I'm going to read off my notes here. So first I want to give a shout out to a few experts in, you know, in this space, like the three of you guys, Dr. Gabriel Lyon, Mike Isertow, and a few others who really helped me change my mindset towards health and fitness, and also helped me to have a much better relationship with food.

So a little background about myself. So I'm 36 years old, five through four. By the end of last year, I was on my lowest point in terms of my physical and mental health. My weight was 199 pounds at a 45 percent body fat. Since last December, I joined a local boot camp. I know Adam think all this class would need to die, but it's here. So at the same time, I was pretty consistent eating at a calorie deficit around 1800 with a daily protein intake about 150 grams. So by July this year, I lost about 25 pounds body weight, dropped 10% body fat and gained a one pound of lean muscle.

And then of course I hit a plateau. So after listening to the few episodes about why women need to bulk, I decided to reverse diet and slash bulk. So I up my calorie to about 2,300 with a daily protein takeover 180 grams. So about two weeks ago, I did another body scan. So my weight did not change. But I did drop additional two percent of body fat and gained two and a half pounds of lean muscle. So immediately on that day, I threw my scale away. Good for you. So, yeah.

So my question were, so here's where I'm going. So for many reasons that I am not able to go to a regular gym at the end. So this bootcamp is really the only option that I have. Eventually I would like to go back to regular gym. So I've been going to the bootcamp about pretty consistently five to six days a week. I know it's a lot. And just hear me out.

So on those strength days, I've been very intentional on the workout. So focused on the progressive overload, range of motion, and of course, following Adam's journey on YouTube, you know, making light weight feel heavy and of course that, you know, focus on the forms of technique. The result of that is my strength grew like exponentially. Just give a good example, my dumbbell deadlift went from like 80 pounds in the beginning to like 160 most recently. So recently I do realize that I'm probably over trained so I cut out on the cardio days.

So here are my questions, which are two parts. One is short term goal, one is long term. So the short term goal is that my husband and I we're gonna have our 10 year valve renewal and I would like to fit in the dress, which is in about six weeks. Given that I am eating 2300 calories right now which is you know in the quote unquote bulking my question is should I keep bulking during that six weeks. The part two question which the long

term is 2300 calories for my size is actually a lot of food. So while I can easily meet my protein goal daily, but sometimes I do have a harder time meeting my carbs and fat goals. My question is, does that matter? The last question really what I wrote in for this is, like many people and especially women who enjoyed the group classes,

then I don't think those group classes are gonna go away. If that's the only option that we have or love, how do we make the most out of those group classes for maximum gain? Great, great question. Great, great detail. Incredible job what you're doing. When I would teach these classes,

I had several client friends of mine that would take the class, and what you're doing is exactly how I would communicate to them, because they enjoyed coming to the class, it was their only option, they said, "'Okay, Adam, I believe in everything you're saying, "'and how do I take this class

"'and still be able to modify modify and you're doing it. So I would tell them like get rid of the circuit shit and the competitiveness of going around. Take your time, rest when everybody else is moving and jumping and doing stuff, focus on trying to get heavier weight and get stronger. You're doing all the right things for someone who is going to take those classes, reducing the amount of cardio, focusing on getting strong, and obviously your results are showing. Now the cool part, let's get to the calories and getting ready for this dress, right? So because you tell me that you're up to 2,300 and 2,300 is a lot of

calories right now, we could go on a little cut right now. We could go and we could do this and since I have six weeks, I'd probably do a little cut for two weeks. Then I'd probably go back to a little mini bulk and then I would finish off the final weeks in a cut again. So and the little bulk would only be like for one week. So I'd put you on a quick cut right now. We drop 300 to 400 calories a day, changing nothing else, just the calories, right? If you can, you can add some walking in there to increase the deficit so if you can get some little walks in increase your steps that would help speed this up we do that for two weeks maybe three weeks interrupt it with a one week kind of bulk again

bumping the calories back to 2,300 and then go right back down again one more time for the final and you'll probably get the best results you can in six weeks. Obviously six weeks is a minimum amount of time. We're not going to see huge difference because you're already doing great already. That's probably what I would do with you in this case. Why is the bootcamp class your only option? What do you mean by that? It comes with a child care So it's just easier. Um, and I know some gyms that do offer, um, like child watch, but I think, you know, it is 45 minutes easy. I just show up.

I don't have, you know, rock the waves. And that's the one thing I've done. Enjoy when I go to a regular gym, you know, you had to put a wave song and rag it and then reorganize it. So I just show up and do the workout for the next five minutes and I'm done and then my daughter had a great time there too for 45 minutes. Eventually I do want to go back to a regular gym you know follow some of the your program. Apparently that's around that. Yeah. I mean, the reason, I know why Sal's asking, it's definitely would be ideal for us to do

that. Yeah. Are you, would hiring a personal trainer for the next six weeks be an option? I thought about it, but I think there's a budget constraint. Okay. Just, yeah. Okay. All right.

Because that's where I would point you, because then you could probably utilize some daycare. And you wouldn't train with a trainer very often. It would be like once a week, and then you would do maybe one or two week workouts on your own. But what you're doing is totally fine, it's just when you're doing the workouts in the bootcamp, make it less cardio, make it more strength training,

which it sounds like you're kind of doing. Take rest, take breaks, make it a strength training type workout. You're moving in the right direction. I like Adam's advice for the six weeks. It's a short period of time, but in that six week period, if you did everything right, you'd probably drop another 3% body fat,

something like that, I would say. Yeah, you could, yeah, we could make moves right now. You definitely can, and honestly, you really are doing about as good as you could do with the constraints of a boot camp type of class. I mean, the fact that you got the results you did, I'm very impressed. That means you did a lot of things the right way in the context of training five, six days a week in a class setting like that. That's pretty incredible. Especially the amount of weight that you had lost, or excuse me, the

body fat percentage you lost, and to have not lost muscle, you actually put on a couple pounds of muscle. That really highlights you did a really good job. And I have a hunch that you have pretty good muscle building and strength building genetics. Were you an athlete growing up? Is it running your family? No, not at all, actually.

I did not. I actually grew up as a child and and I think part of it is thanks to my husband who's been very consistent with those training and he, he wasn't like professionally, but he is a kind of like a power lifter, I would say. So he helped me with a lot of the training technique and the form, so I have some knowledge. And I'm, yeah. And I have, I'm always interested in science, that's why I gravitate content like you guys

and Mike Isertow and also even Jeff Nipper who will get a very sciencey, so I'm interested in those content, which helps a lot. Yeah, the fact that you gained muscle and got leaner while doing those kind of classes tells me that you, and the weight that you said you're doing with your exercises and how much you went up, you react pretty well.

I would guess that, I would estimate that if you switch to more traditional strength training, you would get really good results. How many weights at your house? Where does your husband train? Where does he train? Like he goes to the regular gym. So he usually goes like, he goes like a long workout, like three hours after our daughter goes to bed.

So like there's that scheduling and logistic, um, reason that was, you know, why I can relate to that, um, at the moment. So yeah. Yeah. No. Uh, but also But also like he's starting to go off track and also he's you know a compromise. He doesn't get enough like he doesn't have enough sleep so we're kind of like taking half and half right now. I mean you at one point it sounds like too he's giving you really good at one point training like him would be one of the best things you could do. If he's like a power lifter type of trainer, like that would just do your body so much good, especially with

the base you've already built. So I like the fact that, I mean, I understand that this is part of life, right? Sometimes I have to work with constraints with the client that this just this class is what works best for me Adam And it's just so and consistency matters the most so I'm gonna tell give you the exact advice But the fact that you're open to getting to a gym and training like him at one point That that is the next level for you Like when you start really seeking the next level of body transformation so that it's gonna come from lifting like that remarkable Progress yes, very very good. Yeah. Very, very good. Great. So going back to my other question that, um,

about nutrition. So I said, like, I, you know, I have, like, I'm not having a hard time meeting my protein goal. Uh, that comes pretty naturally and easy, but I do sometimes under E carbs and fat. So my question is does that matter? Are you usually I'm are you hitting your calorie target? Sometimes I come like a hundred calories short try to hit the calorie target. So if it comes with extra protein, that's fine But but try to hit the calorie target. Are you just finding it difficult to eat that much food? Yes, it's just the volume.

It's just like so much. I mean, this is, this also- You're in a good position. I was just gonna say, Sal, this also highlights actually why you've had this beautiful exchange of not really moving a lot on the scale, but building muscle, losing body fat, is because what sounds like it's happening

is you're kind of feeding the body right what it needs. Sometimes you miss a little bit on calories. That's okay. It creates a natural deficit. You burn a little bit of body fat. Other days you hit the target. You actually build a little bit of muscle. So that's what's going on. You can't, so people understand when you zoom out 30 days and you've built muscle and lost body fat, that's what's happened is that there's periods of time when you're a little bit in a surplus because you're eating just to you're hitting your goal, then there's other times where you're kind of missing it because the body doesn't build muscle and burn body fat at the same time. It's one or the other. It doesn't happen at the same time. So what

me what that means when we look at zoom out 30 days is you've had periods of time when you're probably hitting your 2300 those periods of time you're anabolic, your body builds a little bit of muscle. Other times you're struggling to hit those calories, so you're catabolic, your body burns a little bit of body fat. You're actually probably in a perfect place to kind of stay the course too. So I know you asked about the six-week thing and I could potentially put you in a cut for a week or two, then go back, but you're kind of in that Goldilocks zone with trying to hit those calories where you're at and just kind of naturally when it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. What will help and speed this up is though, picking up the walking. If you can increase,

if you can methodically increase steps week over week for the next six weeks, this will help. Yeah. We'll help speed up the results. But the fact that you're having trouble eating that much and you just start, you just don't want, it feels like a lot of food. I mean, going in a cut would be totally fine. Totally fine. That's a good, that's a good time to go on cut. Yeah. I would stay with that prescription I gave you. The prescription I gave you is pretty ideal for later.

Yeah, like something like 1,700 calories, 1,800 calories for two weeks, bring it back up for a week, and then go back down, and you'll see some nice fat loss. Okay. Do that in conjunction with the walking more. Perfect. So another question more on the long-term goal is I think I was listening to the episode coming up yesterday or the day before. I think somebody asked about reverse dieting. So I

think Adam, you mentioned when to stop reverse diets, I believe you said, I don't remember the exact words, that you, um, you eat so much calories. Let's say if I'm eating 2300 calories right now, maybe on long-term for maximum gains is maybe bringing up to 2500 calories, even more for my size and then bring it back down. Um, am I understanding that correctly? Potentially. But what you said said something already that's really important. What comes even more important to me is when a client looks back at me and they go, Adam, this is just so much food. There's a lot of food already for me.

I don't want to force feed you. I want you to be somewhere comfortable. And in a perfect world, we push you up to that point to where you're like, this is so much food, just so I can bring you back down to a level that keeps you leaner and happier. And so if you're already telling me you're pushing those boundaries at 23,

I would never force you to go to 25. This is where I would say, all right, let's cut for a week or two and lower calorie. And then maybe that'll kick the appetite back up and you wanna go back up to 2300. It sounds like you've done a really good job of kind of scaling up already and 23300 calories is a lot for you. If you were telling me it's not a lot,

and there's days that you easily overeat or could overeat, then I would stretch that capacity. I would push you to go higher. But if you're like, Adam, it is really hard to hit 2,300 consistently. In fact, more often than not, I fall below. Well, then you're probably reaching where the max you want to be at.

And so we want to find that ideal which for you might be hovering around 2,000 calories might be your perfect calorie intake where you don't feel like you're starving, you don't feel like you're over stuffing, you know you're just making good choices you're hitting your protein take around 2,000 calories and you're keeping the physique that you want right now we're just trying to get to that place so we're kind of manipulating you know the increasing then decreasing and all that but you probably could just kind of hover around where you're going and continue to see good results based off what I'm hearing from you. Just keep that in mind. Yeah okay great. Just want to say thank you guys again you know for putting the content out there and having you know guests, guests like, you know, Dr. Stephanie Esteemah,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, those people really, really help women, I think, to reshape our mindset. So thank you guys for all you do. You got it. Thanks for calling in. Yeah. To see progress like that with a boot camp class. She's doing a lot of right things. And she's also got good genetics. I mean, most people don't build muscle and lose fat at the same time anyway. Not to mention a bootcamp class,

which is just not an ideal way to work out. I mean, she must be adjusting. I couldn't imagine, I mean, she switched her training. No, she's doing is, I mean, so I had this. I had like client friends of mine that were taking orange theory and They would kind of be over in the corner doing their own thing and everybody be like, what are they doing? And they like I would just tell them like you do what I tell you to do Which is don't get in this circuit bullshit sit on just because everyone else is moving you sit you rest for a minute

Sounds like she's doing a lot of that already in the class helps you She sounds like she's got a husband who's into powerlifting, probably giving her tips on pushing strength and so that. Passed on the technique. Just shows you that it can happen. I just, for the most people listening, if you're just following what the class is doing, you ain't getting those results.

No. That ain't happening. That's, she is obviously doing, and she probably has the genetic piece that Sal's talking about. In addition to that, she's also doing a lot of the right things. But the next level for her really is breaking free from that

and getting into like a three day a week strength, pure strength training protocol. And she'll probably see incredible results. Our next caller is Steve from England. Steve, what's up? What's up, Steve? What's happening? Hey, guys.

Nice to meet you. Thanks for having me on. Yep. You got it. Just want to say thank you. I'm going to be a bit different. I'm going to say thanks to all meet you, thanks for having me on. Yep. You got it. Just wanna say thank you. I'm gonna be a bit different. I'm gonna say thanks to all of you, but also the people behind the scenes as well,

like Doug and Andrew. I believe, is it Margaret as well on your live chat? Yep. Yeah, Margaret's great. We got Dylan too, say thanks to Dylan. Dylan. Yeah, thanks Dylan. There's a lot, we appreciate you too.

There's a lot of people behind the scenes that are far more important. A lot of people don't realize that, so I appreciate you giving them love. Yeah, no really, there is. It's great that we can send a message on the Facebook Messenger and Margaret answers very quickly and just having that free content from you guys

and from the team is unbelievable. So thank you very much. You got it man. Thank you Steve. How can we help you? Okay, so bear with me one second. I'll just get my question up. So my situation has changed considering this was a few months ago, just like you're here

all the time. So hi, I love your content and podcast. I'm 36 year old male, 251 pounds. I want to get to 220, 192 centimeters, 6 foot 3. Back on a fitness kick, lost 70 pounds since January. Currently trying to lose weight and build muscle. I'm exercising, working out and walking more than 18,000 steps a day. I'm new to macro counting, currently using NutraCheck to count calories and macros. I put in the app that I'm trying to consume 2,000 calories so I'll be in a

deficit but when I put my exercise in it changes my target calories to something like 2,570 for example. If the calorie counter app is saying I can consume over three thousand calories does this mean that it's still a deficit if he two thousand five hundred calories because my exercise offsets it does that make sense yeah yeah let's talk about this though yeah those estimates are misleading yeah they could be very off the I never want my clients to use the what all these tools and apps tell them they should do. It's always our job to kind of figure out because the individual is so, there's such a wide, a guy your age, your size, everything the same as you could have a totally different

metabolic rate, meaning their calorie, and that's all the information they're getting. They get your weight, your height, all the things that you're doing, and they guesstimate what that could be. So I never want them to use that. Right away already. I know based off of your size, we're way low. Like that's way low. Yeah. Well, can I add to it? If you don't mind. Yeah. So obviously, like I said, I spoke to Margaret and it is Margaret, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Margaret. Yeah.

She said, yeah, 2000 sounds really low. She said, I'd love to see you on a reverse diet. So she sent me a few links from videos that you guys have done. Good. Obviously I've heard you guys talk about it all the time about reverse diet. So I did reverse diet. I went from 2000 up to 3000. Okay.

Up to 3500. up to 4000 and now I'm at 4500. I've actually lost more, I'm now 238 pounds. Okay, now we're talking, now we're talking Steve. And I've lost 2% body fat as well. Hell yes. Isn't that weird? Hell yes. So yeah, crazy crazy who would have thought

that these mindfuck guys know what they're talking about. Hey I'm so glad you did, you know we're gonna have to make sure we shout out Margaret. That's great advice. I'm glad you took it and look at that man. How crazy is that? How long have you been at 4,500 calories? So I've been at 4,500 now probably for about a month. Um, so I have caught and it was amazing. Like it was almost like turning, um, a gas hob. Yeah. Um, that's the only way I can imagine it. Uh, I can describe it.

Um, so when I caught, um, I went, I caught by about 1000 calories, um, a day and I did it for only a week and like the weight fell off me and I'm using what do you guys call electric impedance is it yeah the scales at the gym so you grab hold of it it sends electric current through your body I know it's not accurate I know you guys don't like them but yeah it's you know because I'm using that regular it monitor, then, you know, obviously that's given me a rough guide. That's good.

I've lost 2% body fat. That's the best way to use it. Yeah. Here's what I would do at this point. So many calories, you're probably a lot stronger. You're probably seeing great progress in the gym. I would just alternate between cutting and bulking. Yeah.

Your, I mean, your calories, 4,500 is a great place to be. It's a lot of food. Great place. So I would go, you know, between 3000 I mean, your calories, 4500 is a great place to be. It's a lot of food. So I would go between 3000 to 4500 calories. I would do a mini cut, mini bulk, mini cut, mini bulk, and continue to strength train and aim for progress in the gym. If you're progressing in the gym and you're alternating with your calories,

you're gonna be getting leaner while building muscle. You're at such a beautiful place. That's exactly the advice I give. Is bouncing. I started with Maps Anabolic a few months ago. I managed to do six weeks and then I actually changed my job to a bin man. I'm guessing you guys would call it a trash man. Yeah.

So running behind a bin wagon. So I'm doing between 15 and 20 miles a day. So you're talking 30,000 to 40,000 steps a day Wow At the moment so that's why I've had to push my calories so far up Yeah, so Matt I figured from listening to you guys about over training everything like that I thought maps had anabolic would be a bit too much So I went ahead and got So I went ahead and got

Maps 15, sorry, yeah, excellent. I'm prime And I've been working through Maps 15 and seeing some great games. It's been brilliant but even that is quite hard because my my day is filled by Basically, I'm up at four o'clock in the morning to take my dog for a walk. I start work at seven. So about 10,000 of my steps just comes from a dog walk. I've got a husky, so he needs a lot of walking.

And then yeah, the rest of it comes from work. So it's, I mean, it's a lot. Do you guys still think maps like 15 would be appropriate? Yeah, yes. And here's what you can do with it, Steve. Because what probably seems like a lot more than the actual training volume in it is just the commitment of training six days a week in the gym, I would assume, or working out six days.

What you can do is combine some of the days, the way it's structured. So let's say today is just a long work day, busy, tons of steps. You're exhausted and you're feeling you're like, man, I don't feel like lifting today. Take the day off and then the next day, put the two workouts together. So you're still hitting, you're hitting all the muscle groups, you're hitting everything we have in there. Just combine some of the workouts on the days that it makes more sense when you have a day off or when you're better rested. You can do that. That's what's great about Maps 15 is you don't necessarily have to do it six days

a week. It could be a three day a week program that you, you pair up days or it could be a four day a week where you'd pair up one day and then the other day. So you can, you can have some flexibility with it like that. But that's the right program for you. It is a perfect program for you. Well, you say that, but, um, so I'm going to change my job again soon. Uh, and it's, it's three through listening to you guys, to be honest. I listen to you guys at least for three hours a day when I'm walking my dog in the morning and at night

and during the day as well. And you've had a big impact on me, as you can see with the reverse diet and everything like that. So thank you very much. But through hearing you guys go on about longevity and everything and the impacts on your joints and running isn't good for you and everything like that.

And basically at the moment I'm running behind a bin wagon 10 to 15 miles wearing steel toe cap boots. So it's not good for you. You know, it's not good for your ankles. It's not good for your knees. I'm a heavy set guy anyway. So that impacts on my joints isn't good. And all the time I'm hearing you guys in my head talking about longevity and everything

and muscle building and it's actually made me change my job. So I'm actually going to be a postman now. So a mailman. All right. So it's going to be a similar amount of steps. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be a similar amount of steps. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah It'll be a similar amount of steps. I'm still 30 to 40 thousand a day, but I won't be running And I'm hoping that if you guys say it's appropriate on my on my days off

I'll get two days off a week and I'm hoping to go back to anabolic. That's fine Yeah, do you guys think that would be okay? Yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I think you're gonna be fine. What's great though is you do have math 15 So if you feel like it's too much and you're it's then go back to math 15 Those two programs would be great for you to about the fact you have maps prime also Make sure you include some of that in there on those days the joints start talking to you or whatever Just listen to your body. You're doing a lot of the right thing Steve like you're in a good place calorie wise You're listening to your body. You're doing a lot of the right things, Steve. Like you're in a good place calorie-wise, you're listening to your body, you're doing the right program.

Absolutely, try anabolic. It should be fine if for some reason it's too much. You could scale down to two days of MAPS anabolic or go back to MAPS 15. And at the moment I'm getting seven hours sleep a night, that's solid sleep. So it's from 9 p.m. till 4 a 4 a.m. Do you guys think that's enough? I know you try to say try and get like eight nine hours but would you say that's okay with what I'm doing?

It's probably okay but you could you know I would see how you feel by adding another 30 minutes and if you feel better then you probably need a little more. Yeah. Yeah. It's just obviously understanding like, you know, you guys have kids as well. When you put the kids to bed, you want to spend a little bit of time with your wife, just you, you too, you know? So it's hard going to bed at 9 PM is quite early as it is, you know, it's a juggle, it's a juggle, but you're, I mean, if you're getting stronger, you're

getting leaner, you're building muscle. I mean, you're doing great. Yeah. Yeah. I think you'll be fine. Great. And can I just ask you, um, stronger, you're getting leaner, you're building muscle. I mean, you're doing great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you'll be fine. Great. And can I just ask you, um, you obviously you've got maps bands. Uh, how long is the workout for that?

Roughly? About 45 minutes. 45 minutes. Yeah. Do you have that program? That's one you can continuously do too. Yeah. Do you have that?

Um, no, no, I've only got them three app, anabolic prime and, uh, 15. I'll send you bands. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. That'd be brilliant actually. Yeah. Then I could, I could use that as well. You'll send you bands. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh wow that'd be brilliant actually yeah and I could I could use that as well. Yeah that one and then map suspension is another good option for you too. Those are all those are all really good good options for you. But we'll see. I just have to get a door frame that's

strong enough for me. Yeah this is true. All right Steve. Okay keep us posted you You're doing great, man That's great. Thank you very much for your help. Appreciate it. Take it easy All right So I want to what a great little great Yeah, and I want to touch on something because because I'll tell you something out there are people who are same age same bodyweight also Working out like crazy doing lots of cardio who cannot consume working out like crazy, doing lots of cardio, who cannot consume 4,500 calories

because their body's adapted and they're not strength training properly. He reversed diet, strength training, building muscle. This is why his metabolism is as fast as it is. So what I don't want is people listening to me like, oh, well he's eating 4,500 calories because he's doing so much walking and moving. No, no, no, no, no.

No, no, he's built his, your metabolism can have tremendous flexibility in how it adapts. I mean, I've worked with people as big as him who, who, who gained body weight over always trying to be efficient. That's it. And that's, I mean, that's the point of it. So yeah, for him to do that intentionally, it really helps to kind of stoke that metabolism. Such an awesome testimony to hear, you know, where he was at. So grab so great the way he started it. Cause he didn't feel like it was going to go there like You're left to hang that's like oh shit, bro You were way too low right and then to hear him go from

2,000 to 4,500 And then yeah get leaner in the process then put himself on a little bit of a cut to 3,000 calories which is now a cut for him and his body just the body weight just drop like that's all perfect This is exactly what we try and communicate and yes he's a big you know six foot three 250 pound guy but it's all relative like so the the girl who's listening to this right now who only you know weighs 150 or 160 pounds uh absolutely it's that you're not you don't need to get the same principles same principles apply it's just you don't need to get all the way to 4500 but you're 2,800 calories, which probably sounds crazy to you, is where you want to get and then you come back down to say 22 or 2,000 and

you're just wait for coming off. Shout out to Margaret. Look if you like our show come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump Justin. I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout

blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a 5-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is MindPump.