Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2466: What You MUST Consider When You Train to Failure (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: There are some things you MUST consider when you train to failure, and it's different from the other stuff. (2:58) Super athletes. (15:51) Setting your kid up for success. (22:43) Learning how to lose. (26:36) Stay protected during ‘illness season.’ (33:12) Take your favorite influencer’s endorsements with a grain of salt. (35:56) The addictive properties of ultra-processed foods. (39:08) Sugar restriction and children’s development. (43:34) Derma rollers work! (49:45) All worth it. (52:58) When the white lie is the right answer. (54:38) Shout out to sciencedaily.com (56:20) #ListenerLive question #1 – I developed a big knot in my right upper trap that doesn't seem to go away. Could this be due to incorrect form and the number of shrugs I'm doing with Anabolic? (57:23) #ListenerLive question #2 – Is it better to eat less but higher quality calories than eating more lower quality calories when trying to bulk? (1:12:25) #ListenerLive question #3 – Do you think my age could be a reason I’m not gaining muscle, or do you think it’s a combination of diet? (1:20:04) #ListenerLive question #4 – How can I modify MAPS 15 to make it more of a MAPS 30? MAPS 15/Anabolic? (1:31:04) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit NED for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off ** Visit Entera Skincare for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MPM at checkout for 10% off their order or 10% off their first month of a subscribe-and-save. ** EARLY ACCESS to the Black Friday Sale is open NOW! ** ALL MAPS Fitness Products 60% OFF. Coupon code BLACKFRIDAY. The code will expire on Sunday, December 1st. Each purchase enters you to win one of two 5-day stays at the Mind Pump Park City Vacation Home. Each winner will receive $1,000 cash for travel and food. Bundle purchase – 10 entries, Program purchase – 5 entries, ALL other MAPS purchases (mods, guides, etc.) – 1 entry. Winners will be announced and contacted in December. ** Mind Pump #1282: The #1 Key to Consistently Building Muscle & Strength (Avoid Plateaus!) Mind Pump #2455:  The 5 Gym Machines You Need to Stop Using ASAP Building Muscle with Adam Schafer – Mind Pump TV Saquon Barkley move ScienceDaily: Your source for the latest research news Restricting sugar consumption in utero and in early childhood significantly reduces risk of midlife chronic disease, study finds Mind Pump #1435: How to Kick Your Sugar Addiction in 5 Simple Steps Visit Hiya for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Receive 50% off your first order ** MAPS Prime Webinar Correcting Upper Cross Syndrome to Improve Posture & Health– Prone Cobra – Mind Pump TV Mind Pump #1297: 3 Ways to Know If Your Workout Is Not Right for You Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Chris Bumstead (@cbum) Instagram Saquon Barkley (@saquon) Instagram Nicole Arbour (@ibnicolearbour) Instagram Layne Norton, Ph.D. (@biolayne) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go Mind pump with your hosts Sal DeStefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is mind pump. All right in tape episode We answered live callers questions people called in we got to help them out on air But this was after our intro portion today's intro was 54 minutes long now in the intro we talked about current events Studies we talked about family life. It's a good time By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this where you call in and we get to help you out Email us your question at live at mind pump media.com.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors.

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everything 60% off early access for Black Friday. By the way, if you get a bundle you'll get 10 entries. If you get a program you'll get five entries. Everything else gets one entry. This is to win a vacation on Mindpump at the Mindpump house in Park City, Utah. It's a house that is totally optimized for health. In other words, there's a gym, cold dip, sauna, like really, really cool stuff. If you're interested in the discounts and the entries,

go to mapsfitnessproducts.com, pick what you wanna get, then use the code BLACKFRIDAY for the 60% off and the entries to win the vacation on our dime. All right, here comes the show. T-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time! Awww, shit Doug, you know it's my favorite time of the week. Four winners this week, two for Apple Podcast, two for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winners are Jay

Birley and Provangelist12. And for Facebook, we have Jennifer Wood and Caleb Ramsey. All four of you are winners. Send a name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you. One of the fastest ways to make gains and to get stronger is also one of the fastest ways to hit a plateau. This is failure training, but you have to do it right.

There's some things you have to consider when you train to failure and it's different than some of the other stuff. Let's talk about it. Just be your go to let's talk about this. Maybe, uh, maybe the thing that I abused the longest in my training career, precisely because of what I said when I opened. Yeah, the gains come fast.

Very fast. It doesn't help too that there's a lot of content around the positive things around failure training too. I think that, and there is this misconception that, oh, the reason why I don't look like Chris Bumstead is because I don't train as hard as him, you know? And so, or like Ronnie Coleman, like you have these super physiques that you admire

or look up to and, you know, these hype videos that are made around the way they train. And then you see the research that supports the benefits of training to failure, and you just think to yourself, like, I gotta do more. And I've seen a little bit of great results from the failure training I've done, therefore more of it. And then you get stuck in the trap that I think I was in

for a very long time where damn near every exercise of every workout was taken to failure. Yes, yes. You know, it does produce, first first off let's define what we're talking about just before we get into the things you need to consider because there's a right way to do it as well. So training to failure is when you lift weights or you strength train and you do a set until you can't complete another rep with good form. So that means you fail, right? So you're bench pressing and you do, you know, 10 reps and the 10th rep is the last rep. Like you're not going to

be able to perform an 11th rep. That's going to failure and it does produce very, very rapid gains in strength and in muscle building. But also again again you also plateau very quickly. That all being said, there are a few things you need to consider. One of them, this is the most important, is because the intensity is so high the volume needs to be way less, way lower. You can't take your normal workout, let's say you're gonna hit your chest today and you're gonna do nine or 12 sets in your workout, you can't then be like, oh cool, I'm gonna train to failure because I heard it produces

quick gains and then do nine to 12 sets to failure. All that's gonna do is hit, you're just not gonna progress at all. You're not gonna get any of the benefits of training to failure. You're just gonna hit the plateau super fast. You're gonna hit it right out the gates. So number one is it requires,

or you need to do far less volume, typically between one fourth to one third of the volume, meaning if you do nine sets for chest, maybe two sets to failure is what you need to do. So far, far, far less volume in order to make this work. Because if you do what a lot of people do is they just take their normal workout and just start amping up the intensity,

you're just not gonna progress. You'll go backwards is what'll happen. It's funny, it's like if you think about a training partner or like your gym buddy or like the only relevance for having like a gym partner back in the day was to spot you on your failure training. Otherwise it's just kind of a pain because you're waiting on somebody else to show up

and your whole workout's gonna be defined based upon them contributing and helping you kind of push yourself to that level. When in fact, like the inappropriate way of training, you don't even need a spotter. Yes, by the way, that actually brings us to another point. And there's some history to this, right? So the original or some of the first people to discuss this style of training,

and it's been called a lot of different things throughout like bodybuilding history, right? Heavy duty training. Arthur Drones was the first one to kind of come up with this concept. He's the inventor of Nautilus equipment. Mike Menzer did it, you know, called it heavy duty. Dorian Yates called it blood and guts. DC training was another way. I think that was in like the maybe 15, 20 years ago, maybe 10 years ago. But Arthur Jones, when he first talked about this, he said it's better to use machines with this style of training. And I think I agree with him for a couple reasons. One it's safer. Yeah. Failure training is inherently more dangerous for obvious

reasons. The intensity is super high and if your technique is off or you fail in a rep and you have a free weight you're more likely to hurt yourself than on a machine when it's on a track and it's already set, it's not a big deal, you just let go and you're totally fine. Also free weights cause more damage anyway. You know going to failure on an overhead press with a barbell tends to be more damaging to the body than an overhead press on a machine. You can pick any exercise, compare it machine to free weight. There's very same things that make free weights better

for most lifting, also can make it not as beneficial for failure training. So training to failure, machines are actually great for this. It's safer, it's on a track, not as damaging, because the intensity that's being used for failure training, you have to be really judicious with. Another factor is are the rep counts.

Low reps, really low reps don't work well with this style of training, probably because it's just not enough reps in so few sets to make that big of a difference. You're probably better, in my experience at least, training people and training myself, you're better doing a set or two to failure in the 12 rep range than you are into like the four rep range. Like four reps to failure doesn't really cut it very well with the

style, you know, with this style of training. It just doesn't produce the same kind of gains. I also think that my definition of failure has evolved since I've been lifting. When I started out, failure training to me was I cannot literally move into where my buddy's going, come on, you can move it, come on, I'm almost there. And you're going like, you know what I'm saying? To try and get one more edge, and then finally, yeah, take it, take it.

And then it's like, that was failure training, where my definition of failure training today is the minute I feel any sort of breakdown in the movement, and I'll still be able to complete the rep. So even as I'm documenting this whole series right now on YouTube, there's times where the viewer is actually watching a set that I would consider failure, but they may not think it is

because they don't see me struggle like that, but I can feel my body like, oh, one more of these and I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna cheat it or shimmy the weight up. And so the minute that I find myself coming out of perfect, what I would consider perfect form, everything from the tempo to perfectly evenly distributing the weight as I move the bar or the dumbbells,

that is failure to me. And so that's different, right? When you were younger, failure was like, failure. Failure was I can't move. Yes. Like the bar isn't moving anymore, which is beyond failure. And also the injury risk is so high when you start to do that.

And the recruitment pattern that you get from that. Yeah, like what are you training? Yeah, because what we have to understand is that you could have pretty good form. Let's say you will use bench press as an example for most of the movement. And then you go all the way to that failure. And then you are doing everything in your power

to try and move that weight, even though you can't anymore. And it's really difficult. I don't know very many people that don't start to leverage their body to get it that extra inch to try and complete that rep. And at that point, what are you doing? I mean, what are you like, you're not getting any better at that movement. I mean, you're proving you can get the weight another six inches. By sacrificing form and compensating. Yeah so just at what point is that worth it anymore and so not only did I dramatically reduce the amount of total failure I train ever but then even my definition of taking it to failure when I do take it to failure looks dramatically different than what it looked say 10

15 years ago. 100% that's the way it should be used. And the data even shows no additional benefit from going beyond failure, which is like what you're talking about with forced reps or partials or anything like that, except for the rare occasion. And also, by the way, part of the reason why, this is a few different reasons why we almost never recommend failure on the podcast. One of them is the injury risk.

Number two, nobody knows how to do it right. And number three, you can never train to failure forever and get great results. Yeah. Okay? It's a very small window. Yes, and when you do this, if you have experience and you're like, hey, I wanna experiment with this,

so you cut all your volume down by one, down a third or a fourth of what you were doing before and you experiment with this, you're gonna get exceptional gains for about three to four weeks, some maybe a little longer, and that's it. Like you get really really fast gains in a short period of time and then you plateau super hard and then you're done. And then you go, you got a back way off and a lot of people can't handle that because of the early fast gains. Like I remember when I first tried this style of training,

I mean I was a kid, right? So when I started lifting weights I was 14 and from 14 to 16 my training was very high volume. It was Arnold Schwarzenegger style, bodybuilding type of stuff and I did that forever. And then I got Mike Menzer's book Heavy Duty and I did that and Heavy Duty was so different from what I was doing before. Literally Heavy Duty was this. I'll give everybody the cheat sheet. It was three days a week. Monday was chest,

shoulders, triceps. Wednesday was back biceps. Friday was legs. It was one set to failure per body part. Now up until that It was one set to failure per body part. Now up until that point, I was doing 20 sets per body part. You know, it was just insane. So I did that and I got strong and I gained, I don't remember, eight pounds of muscle in like a real short period of time. Then I plateaued real hard.

Now you show a kid, I mean, let alone a kid, you show anybody those kind of fast gains, they're gonna be stubborn with the program and I was. I was stubborn with it for like a year. In fact, I thought the the advice that was given by Mike Menzer back then was, oh you're over training again, so now back off even more. So then you go from three days a week to two days a week to once a week to once every you know six days. And it just, I just kept plateauing and getting no results. Then I went back to volume and I got great results. The data by the way supports this. Volume is connected

to muscle growth, intensity also, frequency also. You have to play with all these. If you do this and you do it right, you can throw in one or two short periods of time in the year when you're rested, everything feels good, or you'll get these just incredible gains. But be careful for the injury. Injury risk here is no joke. Adam said, especially if you're advanced, let's say you do this and you add 30 pounds to your squat,

but you're already pretty advanced. 30 more pounds to your squat in a four week period, if your form is off a little bit, you'll probably not feel good. You'll probably start to feel some pain in some of your joints. Injury risk goes high. Muscle tears are much more common

with this kind of training. Warming up is very crucial with this style of training. You need to do good four sets of warm up and feel totally prepared to go all out. You know, one of the other benefits of this style of training, I'll say, especially for people who are experienced, is it helps you recalibrate your intensity. Because what tends to happen with me,

especially with certain exercises, is I'll stop two or three reps short of failure, but without realizing it, I'll stop, it'll be like five or six or seven reps short of failure, but I don't realize it until I go and do a set to failure. So you stretch yourself just a bit. Yeah, and then I'll go, oh, I actually had more reps than I thought. That's why I look at it as a competitive event. It's not like a usual thing that I'm incorporating in my training.

It's more of like I'm building up towards this display of a competitive event because I'm trying to push myself and CRM at limitation wise. And much like a sport, like I'm preparing all season for now my expression. Oh, great way to say that. This is an expression of like what you're capable of, but you don't want to stay there because it really

is not beneficial for you and long term in your body. It's not going to be able to sustain that kind of excess stress. Speaking of sport and great expression, did you see Saquon Barkley's move yesterday? Yeah. Bro.

I got to show up. He hurdles backwards. Yes, take a show. I haven't watched hurdles backwards. I want Doug to put it on the TV so he can see this one. Sickest thing I've ever seen, yeah. Probably one of the coolest, like, How crazy is this?

in-game, live moves. You know what just blows me away is just the level of, like, the varying degree of Properception. of athleticism that exists in humans is ridiculous. And to do something like this on TV, real game, I just sent it to Doug to group threads, so hopefully he can pull it up on the screen so we can watch it because this is a really good clip because they actually Do it like in slow-mo so you can see it. He was so in flow state. That is just so

Unbelievably impressive to me to be able to have you haven't seen this Doug. Have you no watch watch this play watch what he does He knows the defenders there and he just jumps and he's backwards. Is he like Spider-Man? He's got Spidey sense? This. Oh, oh. You're right.

I mean, it almost looks like intentional, it was orchestrated. It's so pretty and perfectly timed. So wild, dude. You know, I was at this point also, I mean, thinking about super athletes, you made me just think of that. And I saw this other one that they did this whole study

on Indy 500 or race car drivers and something to do with like, they had this genetic anomaly with how few times they blink. They had this whole thing where they made them all wear glasses and measure the amount of times they blink in like a lap and then they compare them to the average person and you or I are probably like the average person and our eyes blink X amount of times and they just don't blink like a dramatic amount difference which equates to like minute lots of minutes of eyes being aware and open in while the race which makes total sense why they have this crazy champions at staring contest.

What people need to understand is that at the top pinnacle levels of anything, whether it's business or intelligence or sport or whatever, what you have is a combination of extremely rare genetics with obsessive training and practice for years and years and years. So it's literally like, you know, it's one in a billion. You know, half the time. Their focus is just unreal. You know, I didn't really understand that until not that long ago.

That that's really what we see today is just an example of enough time has passed by, enough decades of football, enough decades of racing, that we've, what's it, the democratization of that? Sports, yeah. Has happened so much that what you're saying is like, that's really, like, people always like to point to like, oh, it's steroids in sports, or it's,

oh, the newest technology or what, that like, that has so little to do with it. So little. It has more to do with people that should be racing cars have found cars. People that should be, you know, swimming in pools. We siphoned them off early and giving them a better chance. In strength sports,

all you got to do is look at some of the world's best pound for pound power lifters and deadlift or bench press. Just compare those two body types. And you'll see very vastly different looking body types because of the leverage that's, you know, that's required, uh, you know, to do those things. And then when you go back and you say now we are at time to where you can go see someone like Saquon Barkley's probably high school footage yeah and you watch him and you're like oh he's probably running circles on yeah you I mean it's it's have you ever I don't know if you've seen any stuff like this

before Sal but they take some of these guys especially a pro like him and they show him playing it like his high school and if he played for some normal it like looks like men amongst little children like playing. I know you guys have told that story so many times when you guys played the 49er line man at basketball and they were just dunking on you guys even though they're a bunch of line men. He just shoot from half court draining it. Dude I remember in Jiu-Jitsu when I was at my peak as good as I ever was in Jiu-Jitsu I've been training for six years I was purple belt I could hang with black been training for six years. I was a purple

bell. I could hang with black belts, with most black belts, and I was pretty good. I remember this guy came and I outweighed him by probably 30 pounds, but he was a world ranked jujitsu fighter. He was a black belt, but nonetheless, like I said, I could hang with black belts for a while. And he tapped me out like I Mean he I mean, I'm not exaggerating. He probably could have been eating a sandwich at the same time It was so humbling when you go from good to world-class. It was like what is happening here I'll put my hands on my tap out. I was like what is happening here that wrestler You always showed me on Instagram that challenges people to take him down. Oh yeah. Well, and to your point, it's in every class, everything from business to every sport. I mean,

I don't know if I shared this on the podcast, you guys know this story, but I mean, even when that recent experience where we went and raced the exotic cars around the track, it was so funny, so humbling when I told the driver or told the pro driver who's driving around with me like hey you know today I really want to get what it feels like to have this car get out from underneath me and I want to be able to try and control it and he laughed at me he's like yeah you it's not gonna slide out from underneath me. I'm like okay you know and then what I realized was I'm the limiting factor. I'm so like no matter how many times I went around that track I'm the one that the car can do so much more than what I'm was I'm the limiting factor. I'm so like, no matter how many times I went around that track,

I'm the one that the car can do so much more than what I'm killed. And then to see him drive in an SUV, teaching us where the A-Bag is. It was an SUV. Yeah, an SUV. Looking back and like talking to us as he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like,

he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like,

he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's bump as the tires are screeching around the corner and we're like sliding around. Have you guys not gonna lie? That made me nervous. Wild. You know what's the craziest? You guys ever watch, uh, like, like an inside view of rally cars race, rally car race, bro? I don't even know that. What do it's so fast like you're to turn and to jump and like that navigator like really? I don't care who's navigating. I think that's what I think. That's

actually one of the most fascinating things to actually watch is to, and to hear the commands, like the way he's talking, he's got a little notepad and he's talking super fast, you know what I'm saying? And then the guy's just like little commands like that. And the trees are just whizzing by. And there's people on the sidelines watching him not getting hit.

Yeah, they're just, yay! Yeah, dude. That has to be one of the wildest. I mean, yeah, you're just, that has to be one of the wildest. I mean, yeah, you're just, you're cut from a different cloth to, I mean, anybody can do anything, right? Like I'm, uh, you know, I'm, I'm not a volleyball player, but I can get out and play a little bit of volleyball, but elite, elite level. Like you, we've now got to a place now where you, people figure that out at early

age. You know, it's funny, all these like top level athletes, like these, you know, NFL players or rugby players or whatever, you know what they were thousands of years ago? They were warriors. Yeah, they were warriors on the street. Hey, this is a guy we sent. This is a guy we go send to go see. We're all just mimicking war.

We're like, oh, there's John. He's going to go kill a 50 people. It's our Goliath. You know what I'm saying? Ride throughout a horse and just kill everybody. Dude, yeah, speaking of athletes and sports and like, so I had Everett decided to try out for basketball and he's never played before.

So like we've, dude, we've like shot, we've shot around, he's played at recess like just a little pick up things with his friends and like knock out and some of those regular, but never like an organized ball or anything. And so he's like terrified. Right. And so the last like it was like two days leading up to I was like, OK, I'm going to help you out. And like I put my coach hat on and was just like out there with him running drills, running like fundamentals and like really just trying my best. And I'm like, I was like, I had all this anxiety. This is all like on my shoulders. Oh my God. I was like, dude, I don't want to set them up for failure. You know, this is going to be brutal. Cause I

want him to love it. You know, selfishly he's doing jujitsu and he loves it, but he's just kind of like, I don't know, he's, he's not real competitive with it. Uh, but he wants to do this too. And so I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah. I'll, I'll see if I can help you out. And so we're, we're drilling, we're doing this, we're kind of going down and, um, you know, recruited some neighborhood kids. And I was trying to get a little bit of a feel with that and like, Oh, he's got pretty good handles. He kind of sees the court, like he doesn't know a lot of the rules.

I was trying to teach him how to box out and like all these types of things and like pick and rolls. Um, and so we get to the, the actual try out and we're there. And like a lot of his friends, a lot of the neighborhood kids and, um, you know, eighth graders down to, you know, his level. And so, uh, turns out cause his last name's Andrews. he's first. Like very, very first. And this is just so nerve wracking to be the first kid. And it's just a cone drill where you have to like dribble through all these things, show off your moves. You gotta do layup, you gotta do perimeter shots. Then you gotta cross over, you do all these other drills. You come back and then you shoot a three And then get your rebound and score and all this stuff and like the guys trying to explain it doesn't doesn't even demonstrate it

So he just sitting there like what am I doing? Courtney are sitting there. Oh my god. He's first How do you do he crushed it like he went through he like gets his layup easy he's crossing over he's shooting a perimeter shot He's like, I'm so nervous. He's like, I'm so nervous. He's like, I'm so nervous. He's like, I'm so nervous. He's like, I'm so nervous. He's like, I'm so nervous. He's like, I'm so nervous. He's like, I'm so nervous. He's like, I'm so nervous.

He's like, I'm so nervous. He's like, I'm so nervous. He's like, I'm so nervous. He's like, I'm so nervous. we'll find out I'm pretty sure he did well, but Fifth six what grade is that? What grade is he in right now? Yeah, he's in sixth. He's in sixth grade right now Okay, so wait good time to start. Yeah. Oh, yeah I mean that's right around when I so I was same thing I was playing like recess ball at that time and then I remember trying out and I remember trying out for a sixth grade

And it was nerve-racking shit It was a I was going to a big school at that time and there was a lot of kids and very similar. We had a similar like, except we had to wear these things so you couldn't see the ball. There were these goggles you put on and it blocks you from looking. So to see if you could dribble without your hands. And you had to put them on and you started

and you had to do this whole dribble forward, side shuffle, crossover. Yeah, you had to do all this stuff. It was a very competitive school, this school that I went to do this whole you know dribble forward you know side shuffle crossover yeah you do all this stuff it was a like very competitive school the school that I went to this time and uh man luckily I was Schaeffer so I was like I could watch other kids do it first for but I remember being so nervous to be I'm be to be tested at that point in my life I had never been tested for a sport yeah and that was my first introduction to it. I'm in a new school. But thank God, I could not imagine if I had to be, A, first kid and then go do that.

That's like super direct. I still have like, aftermath anxiety. I swear I need to talk about it. You're talking about it? It's so funny. Speaking of competition, I had, so my son, Aurelius, turned four, right? So he had his birthday over the weekend

and we got him an air hockey table because he was the one on one, right? Yeah. Right, so he had his birthday over the weekend and we got him air hockey table Yeah, and he's at his age Kids his age and younger, although he's getting close now, but at his age it's it's developmentally appropriate for them to not be able to Handle losing they just don't like little understand that they can that they can lose, they'll throw a fit, whatever. And it's developmentally appropriate type of deal, right? So Jessica, she's super into childhood development. She's like, you know, when we play,

let them win or whatever, so you know, do the whole thing. But anyway, we're playing, and part of me, I'm dad, right? So part of what we're playing, I'm like, I'm gonna score some goals on him. So we're going, and he gets pissed off. No, that one doesn't count, that one doesn't count. I hit that one. You're going too fast, you're going too fast.

And then he gets mad, he puts down the puck, he's like, he puts his hands on his hips, I'm not playing anymore. You're too fast, I want you to be slow like mom. And she's over here, she's back there. You want me to be slow like your mom? You're preparing your son. I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm dad. I'm a little faster, you know? So I was keeping it close.

I was trying to keep it close. You're going to lose sometimes, buddy. That's not fair. You're cheating. You're like, no, I'm just fast. That's all. You got to move fast. I mean, haven't they?

There's been plenty of stuff about this, right? Like, there's a, there's a, you want, obviously you don't want to just pound the kid. You don't want to crush him from wanting to do it. Yeah, you don't want to crush him to where it crushes his soul. But then you also don't want to just pound the kid. You don't want to crush him from wanting to do it. Yeah, you don't want to crush him to where it crushes his soul, but then you also don't want to just give it to him. No, when there is this, now that he's four, now it's getting to the age where now he's going to learn. Like that's even how I wrestle with Max, right?

I wrestle with him. You give him some challenge. Oh, yeah. Like I'll hold him down for a little bit. I don't just give up. You're not going to dominate him. Yeah, exactly. I don't just, and I also don't just let him dominate me. It's like, no, I make sure that he has a challenge

while he doesn't, right? Yeah, but we're not like, it's not like, you know, how they get older and then they don't keep score or they give the kids a trophy. That's not the same thing. That's ridiculous. No, no, no, that's totally different. That's totally different.

That, I think, teaches kids terrible skills. Isn't that, okay, there's been enough uproar about that. Is it not reverse course? Have you guys, I mean, you're the one who has kids right now in the age. So I mean, it feels like if I feel like it's not to get past, I think the, I don't know what age range, maybe like eight, I would say, like, you know,

kind of coming up, I feel like it changes a bit cause then, you know, a lot of those types of kids that just, you that just want to be acknowledged or they're just there because their parents dropped them off, they kind of siphon off. They're not going to make it very long in the sports world. So I think that it does, I don't really see it as much to be honest. You know that they try to apply this philosophy to a lot of things.

Like we're going to change the standards because we don't want kids to get lower than a C or we're gonna change the standards for the fitness test because some kids can't do this or can't do that. It's where the grading curve came from. And it's like you know life doesn't adjust anything for you. You get in the working force. It's not like a job's like oh you know we'll make sure we lower the standards so some people could get hired. They're like, sorry you're not getting hired, you suck. Like what do you do better? Too late to learn that. Although I do want to you know companies did try to adopt something. I remember when 24finish tried to kind of adopt that philosophy and it crushed them because they do so

what they did was I remember this it was like it was a crucial time when they got so different from when we started there was so different I remember this it was like it was a crucial time when they got so different from when we started So we started there was so different Of course It was when you early on when I was there too was it was very much so you wanted to be a top dog Because at the top is where you got the biggest bonuses you got all the wards you got all the great stuff But what they decided to do this was when Carl Lieber came in there and they decided that they would cap The top and they would bring

up the pay for the bottom. So they totally rewarded people for being like middle-livers. So they tried taking the allocated the extra money that they were rewarding the top performers, put a cap on them, took that to bolster and they even presented it that way to say, hey you know like we've got a lot of people who are struggling to get by and pay their bills and do these things, and so what we wanna do is we wanna bring up the bottom rung and make everybody kind of more.

And it totally failed. Of course it did. It totally failed, and they thought percentage-wise, well, these top performers only represent like 10%, so we're better off pissing off the 10% and helping up the bottom 80, thinking that it would elevate, and it did the opposite. Yeah.

Because those front runners played such a huge role in pushing the company forward and outperforming prior year. It's human nature. And then you took all these people who were very motivated. And what they don't realize is that, yes, of course, there's gonna be a percentage of people

at the very bottom that, oh, helping them out a couple more bucks an hour, oh, that would help them move from the poverty line or whatever, and so now they could pay their bills. But it also took away some of their motivation, like for the- Of course, you know what's interesting to me is they make these arguments,

they'll extend this argument to things like, the CEO makes this much money, and the average employee of this company makes this much money, how terrible, whatever. And people, a lot of people will be up in arms and say that's not fair, but you almost never hear that with a sport, like a professional sport. Like you don't watch a game.

Yeah, nobody complains about how much Steph Curry or LeBron James gets paid. Why, because you watch the game and you can see clearly, oh, I see he's way more talented. Right, but with business, people don't watch the game, and so then they see the money and they go, well, that's not fair. They don't understand that it takes a certain talent to be able to run the company like it's art. That's what it is. What it is is

if you watch basketball especially that religiously where you understand salaries and stuff like that like you understand the game and you understand what a lot of people watch business from the sideline and don't know anything about it and then all they see is they see is a big contract for this CEO and they're like, oh my God, that's crazy. It's just like, yeah, have you ran a company before? It's not fucking easy. By the way, this is another example of how twisted it is.

You never hear them say something like, Beyonce made this much money and her average backup dancer or whatever makes this much money and nobody's up in arms because everybody knows Beyonce's super talented and although those people are great. She's the star. Right, nobody makes that argument

but they do with business which is insane to me. It's actually quite effective politics is what it is. It's an effective twisted reality but the truth is in a market-based society, if you can perform something that's high value and you're one of the few people that can do it, you're gonna make a lot of money. That's just the way it works.

I know, interesting. Anyway, we are in illness season, so my kids, my daughter had RSV, you guys know what that is? Oh, that's not croup, it's a whooping cough? No, it's like a viral, it's almost like a cold. Now she's almost two, so luckily she had like one really bad night when she was okay, but with real little kids,

because we had to cancel the party because we have family members with little little kids. RSV could be really deadly, but it's just, everybody's getting sick around us. Max caught the flu last night too. Yeah, you were saying he's thrown up. Ned has a really good product called Immunity Hero with some good herbs in there.

Oh, I need to take that. Yeah, Estragulus. We've used that before. Lemon balm is in there. Elderflower, which is like elderberry. All, it's interesting, if you look at the data on, this is what I love, well, it's also what's frustrating sometimes about, uh,

database Western medicine is that they'll oftentimes disregard traditional, um, remedies, uh, like astragalus, lemon balm, elderflower, elderberries been used for a long time for viruses. And they were kind of like, well, we don't have any data. Well, there's a lot of data now showing how powerfully antiviral they are very, very antiviral. So taking these during this season should reduce the severity of your infection

at the very least. You might still get sick, but not get as sick. I didn't take that, but I will. One of the, you've already trained me to be, as soon as he gets sick, I gave Katrina, we were on the elderberry, we were on the vitamin C, we were on the glutathione, I just stacked those right away. So can I stack that on top of that? Yeah, yeah, yeah on the elderberry, we were on the vitamin C, we were on the glutathione, I just stacked those right away.

So can I stack that on top of that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay, awesome. Oh yeah, by the way, they're so antiviral, so lemon balm and astragulus, really good for the herpes virus. So for people who have, yeah, so people who have like cold sores,

using those somewhat regularly can reduce. Is it preventative? Preventative at the outbreak. Yeah, I don't think it'll prevent the infection, but it'll prevent the ouch. Combine that with lysine, by the way. Lysine is an amino acid. If you get cold sores.

I admit you turned me on to that. Because every now and then, it's like once a year, you get some ugly ass cold sore. Yeah, those are common. By the way, you know how common that virus is? I hate that. The herpes virus?

It's so annoying. Super, it's like one in three. It reminds me I had a high school girlfriend. It's more than one in three? Yeah, look at that, Doug, how common is that? I thought it was one in three. I'm talking about the common version, not the general. Well, they both fall under that, don't they?

Yeah. Yeah, they both, there's ones type one, one's type two, right? I think so. Yeah, yeah, one's on the mouth ones on the on the general Super common a lot of people don't even show symptoms and they have yeah 50 to 80 percent of American So it's actually yeah, it's probably closer to 80 percent. I think that 80s that's that's a ton yeah, you know you're talking about we were talking about money and politics right before that you transition in the commercial and

There were there was something I wanted to bring up I was talking to you off air a little bit. I didn't say anything to Justin and Doug. Did you guys see, do you guys follow Nicole Arbor at all? Oh yeah, I don't. I'm aware of her, but I kind of stopped following her. Yeah, I know. I'm like in and out.

She popped in my feed the other day and I just thought this was an interesting point that she made, so I don't really follow consistently, but I have followed her, so she's in my my thing and she popped up and because it's election stuff look election time she was talking about I guess on the on both sides this was common I guess that a lot of the money this year went into going after these influencers. So paying for a post. Yes paying them for posts to post to say who you're going. Now aren't you legally supposed to,

aren't you required to say that it's a paid for? If they are, they're not policing that. So, they, because this- Like, how the hell do they cover that? Yeah, so they're not, if they are, they're not policing it. And so anyway, she shared, I think she shared three different emails of Kamala Harris' team

reaching out to her to say she, now she has more conservative values, so of course she didn't take it, and she's just like, yeah, no, I wouldn't take the money. She goes, but then she was pointing out that, hey, some of your favorite influencers that you all follow, you know, you think that they're voting a certain way, like they're just taking the money and stuff like that. And then she showed the girl from Sunset, whatever, the selling Sunset, which is the real estate one with all the hot chicks or whatever. So there's a girl on there from Sunset whatever, the Selling Sunset, which is the real estate one with all the hot chicks or whatever.

So there's a girl on there that's really popular. Her name's Krushell and she did a post, like a cute little post and she's like, oh, I'm voting for Kamala blah blah blah, stuff like that. And she goes, and you go, so your favorite influencer is just taking the 25 or 50 grand and posting this stuff.

And she goes, and how I know that is because this chick didn't even change the wording. She goes, here's the email that Kamala copied and pasted. She literally copied and pasted and used that for her caption. That's lazy. Yeah, she goes, so she wasn't even, she didn't even take the extra step of writing her own post about how she's voting with that.

She literally took the email that she was showing our thing and then she posted it. This is just our space, dude. It's like, wow. It's just our space. Yeah, that's yeah. We've gotten offers from, I mean we just had an offer from, who is it? Doritos.

Doritos. Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say we've seen this. They tried to pay us. With junk food companies. I'm trying to figure it out still. I'm trying to figure it out. Sugar companies. Doritos tried to pay us for commercial.

No, how about that? It's not like I haven't had some Doritos in the last year. It would be so counter. It is. Our integrity. It is. Promote Doritos. I mean, I guess that's the crack snack.

We got that because they're trying to tell, you know, we want to sponsor you guys and we're laughing about it. We have a group text. I'll tell the audience. And I was joking. And I'm like, the only way we'll be able to do it is if we're so honest. Like, here's a super unhealthy That we like every once in a while give us diarrhea I mean, I think Justin said it best like I think we could promote cigarettes better than we can promote

Tropic yeah, we've talked about the positives things of nicotine So I'm pretty sure we could push cigarettes better than we push when I want to get creative and hyper focused and I don't mind You know trading in my help although no push cigarettes better than we can push. When I want to get creative and hyper focused and I don't mind, you know, trading in my health, although no, I'll light up a, all joking aside, all joking aside, I can at least count on one hand. How many times this year I've had Doritos. Have you, did you eat Doritos this year? I almost never eat them. Oh really? You don't like, Oh no, I love, I love it. No nacho cheese. Come on. It's cause it's cause they mess about you. When we go on a family vacation,

that's like the go to for Courtney and the kids. And then I end up like, oh, Doritos. And then you're like, oh, my god. You've definitely this year had some Doritos. Have you had some Doritos this year? I had some Doritos. Honestly, I have no idea. It's been years.

OK, so you would tell. Doug's helping us. Maybe I've had one or two, just like grab off things. Oh, no, I definitely have more on that. It's definitely one of those things. Isn't it labeled? Katrina gets Doritos normally. I know we get the jalapeno chips. I mean, they're delicious. But a lot of times, all they do is eat some of her chips. This turned into a commercial. It's definitely one of those things. Isn't it labeled? Katrina gets Doritos normally. I know we get the jalapeno chips.

I mean, they're delicious. But a lot of times, all they're not eating some of her chips. This turned into a commercial. It's commercial. They got their commercial. We're not paid by Doritos. This is not an ad.

My point, oh, is bringing it up. It's like, well, you know, it's not like I don't eat them every now and then. Yes. Yes. That's something to promote. Yeah, yeah. I've got down on some Doritos.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Aren't they the example? I mean, I've had some Sour Patch kids too, and I wouldn't promote that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's good. Aren't they sometimes the example given as like the perfect ultra processed food? Yes.

It's like they were like the most engineered. They mastered, yeah, in terms of- Everything, color, the feel, the crunch, the sound. The texture leaves on your fingers. Yes. It's an experience that they've mastered that. They're the ultimate expression of the science that goes into processed foods

because they've checked all the boxes. Do you remember when, I don't know if they still do this. Do you remember when Taco Bell, they must have stoners on their staff. Remember when they decided to make tacos? They've got another one. But the shell was made out of. They've got another one with the Doritos. But the shell was made out of Doritos.

They got another one right now. They got another. Look up Taco Bell's latest special. They've always got some stoner idea, where they wrap a Mexican pizza in a burrito with a, you know, say like, there's all the time. And I mean, Jack in the Box, they know their demographics. They do.

I think it was, I want to credit Jack in the Box as being the first, really. They were the first to stay open all night long. Jack in the Box did that, brilliant, right? I mean, you guys are gonna be out drinking. It was when we were in high school, so I remember, I clearly remember when Jack in the Box started to do that and then all of a sudden driving home at one or two

in the morning and seeing the Jack in the Box line, like at one in the morning, like Super Bowl, it was a brilliant move. Open that menu up, Doug, let's look at some of these monstrosities. Yeah, they are. There's a burrito taco shell looking thing right there. Oh yeah, the Crunchwrap Supreme looks pretty interesting.

Wow. You know what sucks? By the way, does it ever look like that? Does it really look like that? Or is that just, have you ever gotten, I don't know. That's a studio shot. Yeah, it never looks that perfect. You know what sucks is I loved Taco Bell growing up

as a kid and it would destroy me. Even then, your gut was... But you never associate it with that. Yes. Yeah, I'd just be like pounding all of the burrito and tacos. You know, it's... Did you guys ever order like the 30 pack of tacos? Because you know, you just eat a whole bunch of them. Eat all of them. It's easy to eat them. Yeah, just down the hatch. It's interesting how, how you know, you talk about like people that have battled with like addiction and stuff like that, like how addictive that type of food is, you know, it was, there was a-

The most abused substance in modern society. And once you kind of open the floodgate with that stuff, it's really tough to kick it. If you follow- Because you truly crave it. You're like, man, I love it. If you use the same standards that they used to label the addictive properties of cigarettes.

So we came out with a standard and there's a standard, literally there's a criteria in other words, that they use to explain the addictive properties of cigarettes. If you use that same criteria and apply it to heavily processed foods, they fit the criteria. They are, they change the brain.

They have, there is a withdrawal period when you go off of them. They change how you perceive future foods. So if you eat these foods, you'll start to perceive other foods as less exciting and flavorful. Less palatable. Less palatable, and you'll actually crave them more.

They are, for all intents and purposes, have been engineered to be addictive, and for anybody that debates this, I hate it when people debate this, like, oh, it's not addictive. Look around, you don't think a majority of unhealthy, obese people know that they're obese and unhealthy,

and yet they can't stop themselves. It's because it's them against billions and billions of dollars of science. And you're gonna lose, you're going to lose with these kinds of foods. They've been designed to do so, I know. Speaking along those lines, I brought up, I found a study, a new study was on Science Daily.

By the way, for anybody who likes reading studies, great, great site, sciencedaily.com. So this was out of the University of Southern California. So here's a summary. First I'll read the title. Restricting sugar consumption in utero and in early childhood significantly reduces the risk of midlife chronic disease.

So here's a summary. Children who experience sugar restrictions during the first thousand days after conception had up to 35% lower risk of developing type two diabetes and as much as 20% less risks of hypertension as adults. So this was done out of the- The set up is important. Yeah, yeah.

Now there's two dudes. It's while I know I've talked about it probably at nausea and probably annoy parents that didn't do this because it is cool to watch five years later the relationship already that my son has with candy. We just had Halloween, right? Okay, we just had Halloween. We let my son go bananas get as much stuff as he wants with that. Never once did he grab into it. At the very end when we all came back to the house,

he chose a candy, he chose the Welch's fruit snacks as his choice, then turned around, we took his candy, dumped it back in the bowl and passed it out to kids for the rest of the night. And he was cool with it. Beautiful. I mean, just, and I didn't tell him that, if he would have asked, dad, I want another one, I wouldn't have let him with it. Beautiful. Yeah. I mean just and I didn't tell him that I didn't if he would have asked dad I want another one I wouldn't let him have it

but it because he doesn't have this weird addictive relationship with candy because he we didn't give it to him. Did I tell you guys like what my son said the first house he went up to did I tell you guys he goes up and he goes trick-or-treat right and the lady answers the door and he's all it's his first house right he's all psyched she gives him candy and he looks at her goes excuse me does this have red dye in it she's like no oh I'm sorry she takes it back she goes here's another one he goes oh wait does this one have dairy or gluten Jessica and I like sorry ma'am I'm so sorry Sorry, sorry. Oh my God. Were those parents, it was our neighborhood too, they're like, oh hi neighbor. Oh my God.

Yeah, were those people. Oh my God dude, oh that's lit. Oh my God. You might have some bean sprouts in the bag. Yeah, I know. But you know, okay, so this study, there's a couple ways to look at it. One is, it's hard to rule out

healthy lifestyle habits that tend to follow. Right, cause that type of person who cared enough to not do that Yeah, maybe there's other stuff, but there's this other side too, which is you know when you're as you're growing especially in the first thousand Thousand days right the brain is so moldable and shapeable that it in so plastic that it molds and shapes itself based off of his experiences. And once you reach a certain age,

there's a plasticity that you no longer have. Like this is, and I use this example all the time. If a four-year-old learns five different languages very well, they will have a perfect accent in all five languages for the rest of their life. You teach a 15-year-old five languages, even if they're talented, they're gonna have an accent in every single one of those that isn't

their native language because there's a certain amount of plasticity in the brain that goes away. So what does that mean? That means as a child with their experiences, whether it's trauma or food or vitamins or whatever, their brain molds and shapes itself based off of those experiences. It's formative in that developmental period.

Yes. It's like too, you got to factor in also the gut bacteria and that relationship between the brain and the influence there. It's, it's pretty powerful. Like, you know, and this is just something we recently started to kind of trace back to that. And it's like, if you're setting them up and getting a healthy gut population of bacteria, I'm sure that's, you know, going to set them up and getting a healthy gut population of bacteria I'm sure that's you know gonna set them up long term a lot better

It's wild to me to how strong that connection is and you know This is me speaking from my own personal experience right like because that was there was absolutely there was no guardrails on Us at all this kid. I mean we Candy our generation cereal. Oh,. Dessert was every meal. Yeah, dessert, yeah. By the way, have you heard this argument, like why, because what are we, Generation X? I think we are, right?

I guess so, yeah. Where they say we're the last tough generation. There was this woman that listed all these things, I saw this post, and she's like, they left us alone, we could do whatever we want, parents left. And like, we survived that, you know. It's true, but we were allowed to do. The latchkey kids.

The part though that I'm getting to, and I always find, I become more and more aware every single time I do this, right? So, been on this, what is it, a little over two months now, or I think I'm approaching two months of really diligently tracking and paying attention to everything. And so, I've completely cut out all ice cream, sweets, none of that stuff is in

there. I'm eating like 95% of the diet is whole foods, you know, with the occasional protein shaker bar or things like that every now and then, right? So and I have no craving right now whatsoever. Because you've cut everything out. Because I've cut it out. But I know because I've done this so many times that if I let it creep back in, it gets on. The more you eat, the more you want.

Even somebody who is wildly aware and knows and gets all of it, like, it still will, it grabs like an addiction to a drug. Like, you just, it's almost like you have to admit that first that it's got a hold of you like that, and that you play these games of justifying, well, if it's my macros, I can let it in. You know what's interesting too, though, is that the foods now, processed foods now,

are more processed than when we were kids. They are, even though they have the same brands. They kept refining the process. They've added and changed the formulas to make them even more processed, with more artificial dyes and flavorings and chemicals to refine the experience to the point where, you know, if you ate Captain Crunch cereal in the 90s,

it's not the same Captain Crunch that they eat today. It's not the same. It'll still tore up the roof of your mouth. Yeah, it'll still mess up the roof of your mouth. That shit is powerful. You know okay so side note or we'll take a left here. I just learned about something that's been used for a long time that people have used for their skin for a long time that actually has data supporting it. Did you guys know

that you guys know what a derma roller is? Do you guys know what that is? It's a little spiky. Yeah. Yeah, I remember my- They work. The data shows that they work. Because it stimulates, what was it, like stem cell production? It's damage. It's damage that irritates it, right? You're literally damaging your skin,

and it boosts collagen production. Collagen production. And so there's studies on derma rollers and wrinkles. They're used to promote, repromote hair growth too. Yes, yes. So you can roll it on your head. Yeah remember when I was first getting, when I was first thinning, I remember my hairstylist was like, you should get one of those derma rollers and roll it. I'm like, what? Courtney Aswin, I thought that was just funny. It just reminded me of like, you know, when you get that Play-Doh set, you know, and you have these like little, there was like, it does look like that. What are you doing?

You know, it's like playtime in there? Yeah, so if you combine it, so here's what I was gonna say. So our partners at Intera, so they use peptide-based skincare products. So these are skincare products with pro growth factor or growth peptides. Like they literally accelerate or promote the more collagen production.

Like these are, like you don't find this anywhere. You don't just find this anywhere. These are legit peptides that do some pretty incredible things. They said combine it with a derma roller. Oh wow, so you would do the derma roller first and then probably put it on. Cause you cause a little bit of damage,

put that on and you'll get the effects times whatever. As it's healing and the way you're flying. Well, I imagine too, it kinda opens up the pores and so then it gets in to you too. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So they have the. I have to ask, Katrina's been consistently using that. I'm gonna have to ask her if she's done the derma roller. Oh yeah, my wife is like, if we run out, she's like, get me a combo. Yeah, she's been on top of it like crazy, but I don't think she's done the derma roller yet. Has Jessica done the derma roller? Has she tried that? No, but I'm using it. So I

use the folatin on my head, right? Because I started about maybe two years ago, three years ago my hair started thinning or whatever. So I've been using it. And I mean, I've stopped, I put the, you know, I've stopped in its tracks. Yeah, Courtney ran out and was using that consistently and then actually decided that she was gonna make her own

like mask and made it out of like pumpkin and like some other stuff. I guess there's some some kind of quality to pumpkin that they use a lot in these products for that. So but it was just funny because you smear it all over her face comes back. It looks like she had peanut butter all over her face. What the hell is happening? And then Everett wanted to do it too so he wore one and he's like it's burning. I saw this prank that this guy was playing on his girlfriend where they put masks on.

And apparently he did it so that when you pull the mask off, it leaves, it looks like you ripped off some of your skin. Yeah. Okay, but it didn't, right? So they put the mask on and they're looking in the mirror and they're recording it and he's like, I'll be the first one to take one off. And he pulls it off and it looks like he ripped his skin off and he's like, oh my god

And then his girlfriend cuz she had a big Yeah, I was like I forgot to mention though Like he put that on because he still had like paint on his face for like a couple days. From what? Did I tell you guys? He won the costume contest like for homemade contests for- He come up with that all by himself?

The whole concept- That's brilliant. He looked like a green toy soldier, like a plastic soldier. So good. And so he's out there. We bought him supplies and whatnot. But he did it all himself. And he spray painted it.

Did you know what he was doing ahead of time? He surprised you guys. I mean, he kind of mentioned it in passing. And we're like, oh, that's interesting. And then he was like, we got to do this. And he took some of Ethan's old Airsoft kind of camo gear and then spray painted it. So he had his whole thing like set up.

But it was so funny because like he spray painted all these like his pants, like everything. He smelled so like pungent in terms of like chemicals. And I'm like, dude, this can't be good. This is not good. Yeah, it's like I didn't get him. He was a long term. What a costume contest, bro.

I mean, all for the win, right? Yeah, I guess you chalk it up as that. But I'm like, I hope he's gonna be all right. Yeah, my son got a little. You sat in the back of a truck with gas fumes for like a whole summer, bro. This is true. He'll be okay.

He just lost probably a thousand brain cells. But hey, it's fine. I was just telling my daughter that. She's like, the other day, she's like, hey, is it legal to sit in the back of a truck while I'm like? When I was a kid, I'll tell you what yeah, I had a friend that fell out the back He survived hit a bump he was fine My son got it speaking of like fumes and stuff he got a camera for his birthday that takes pictures

And then it prints out right away it prints out the picture, but it's like receipt paper. So as soon as it starts printing out I look at my wife and I'm like, that's the Zeno estrogen. Just the Zeno estrogen cesspool. Yeah, so we're like, be careful look what you guys are doing to this kid. I know. No, I don't tell. I don't tell. Red guy? I did the better thing. I lied. We ran out of paper.

Sorry, buddy. You can't do it. What was I meant to bring that up the other day about, I had a situation. I'm going to draw a blank. It'll come to me eventually, and I'll bring it up again. But I was wanting to bring on the show to you guys, because I was like, there was something I did,

and it was a total, I lied. It was a white lie. But then I was like, I remember after the fact, you know, but would I have told the truth there? Like no, the lie was the smarter move. Like there's times when raising a child where the white lie is the right answer, right? I wish I remember what it was so I could give the example to the audience.

The truth is in the lesson. Yeah, right? Yeah, I mean, well just sometimes there's like, okay, that was like telling him the truth in that situation would cause him to go down a rabbit hole and cause more traumatic conversation than it would just be like, oh, this is what's going on, right? I wish I remember what it was, but it came up. And then I was like, you know what?

I got to ask the guys if they recall a situation, and you just did it. That's why it reminded me of where, this is probably smarter just for me to tell him, oh, this is probably smarter just for me to kind of tell him like, oh, we can't use that paper or whatever. Yeah, give him the surface answer. Yeah, versus like going into real detail, because I don't want to create this,

like now he's going to be freaked out every time he sees paper everywhere, right? Teachers like, this has, you know, estrogens, I can't use it, you know? Does this have red dye? I can't touch it. Yeah, hilarious. Yeah.

All right, shout out. Do your, you just shout it out, your, your science daily. Oh, science daily, yeah, great place. Is your, you just shout it out. Your Science Daily. Oh, Science Daily. Yeah, great place. Is it Facebook or is it? No, no, you just go sciencedaily.com. People often ask where I get my studies.

That's one place and there's headlines. So they'll post studies constantly as they make their rounds. And you can read the study, then you can find the study if you wanna look at the methods and you know the sample size really really cool website. Children's multivitamins are typically just candy. It's a lot of sugar not enough nutrients. Well there's a company that is dedicated to making multivitamins for children. No crazy sweeteners, no sugar, naturally flavored

and it has the nutrients your child needs to thrive. It's called HIA. HIA Health is great for your kids. This is the only multivitamin company for kids that we support. Go check them out. Go to hiahealth.com that's h-i-y-a health dot com forward slash mind pump and on that link you'll get 50% off your first order. Alright back to the show. Our first caller is Julie from Michigan. Julie what's happening? Hi Julie. How you doing, Julie? Hi there. Thanks for having me on. You got it. I appreciate all the content you put out. I've learned a ton and I just I will read what I sent in even though a little bit has changed. I just finished actually my second round of anabolic.

And I was wondering about the number of shrugs. I noticed the first time through and then this time through I getting a knot and a pain in my, I guess it would be my mid trap, not my upper trap. I think I wrote upper trap. And it kind of was never there before. And it just goes away once I stopped doing the large amount of shrugs that we have in that program.

So I don't know if it's a form issue. I do have a little bit of rounded shoulders. So I really try to keep retraction when I do them so I'm really cognizant of that but it still always comes about when I do shrugs so I don't know if I'm using a little too much weight or if there could be something else going on. It's the technique so the reason why there's five sets of shrugs in anabolic is the program is a very basic strength and muscle building program.

We're trying to strengthen the shoulder girdle, especially to support things like the heavy presses, overhead presses, and the deadlifts. If you've been working out for a while, you could reduce some of the sets. It's not necessary after you've been doing it for a little while. But I do know how important it is for people to strengthen their shoulder girdle, especially as they get the strength gains that maps anabolic tends to produce. So what people tend to do when they follow a program

like maps anabolic, especially with their deadlifts, their strength goes up through the roof and I wanted them to have a strong shoulder girdle. Now that being said, if you get a knot in your mid back, it's a technique issue and it might have to do with the way you're shrugging, but it probably has more to do with the way you're holding your head and aligning your cervical spine as you're doing the shrugs. So a lot of people do when they shrug is they tend to either bring their chin up and their

head back as they shrug, or you'll see people dip down. What you want to do is you want to give yourself a double chin and keep your head real tall and look straight ahead as you shrug or you'll see people dip down. What you want to do is you want to give yourself a double chin and keep your head real tall and look straight ahead as you shrug. You want your spine lined up as you bring the shoulder blades up. Otherwise, what happens is you can start to create some impingement in the cervical spine, especially if you have any type of a, you know, slight herniated disc or any kind of disc issue which most of us have, then you'll start to cause problems.

And the way that it manifests is a knot somewhere. And the reason why you feel the knot is the central nervous system is trying to limit movement in that area to create stability because there's a potential injury about to happen. Julie, do you have our MAPS prime program by chance? I do. Okay. Yes. Are you priming? I so I'm a Pilates instructor and when I got it I was kind of thinking for my husband and myself we both do your have done your

anabolic together and as I was going through it, the my range of motion and everything in the zone one and two are really pretty good for myself. It's that zone three, I had a lot of back problems, lower back problems. So and then I looked at all of the exercise and like, man, this is everything we do in Pilates. So I kind of gave up on that. And I noticed the last two podcasts that you had, you guys talked a little bit about Pilates

and I kind of like kind of laugh because everything in there, in a lot of those motions in your prime are things we do on the Pilates reformer. So I kind of do those a couple times a week already in some form. Yeah. I was asking more for the zone one for sure

because of the traps. That's what I would be wanting to see you do is to do the zone one and the things that I would be looking at is how well you tuck your chin and keep that nodule back against the wall while you also can drive the wrist and the elbows back. If you can do that clearly with good form and no problem, then maybe it isn't the shoulder rolled forward. But my guess would be priming that before you go into shrugs would probably

help. Yeah. You know, we could do a quick test here, Julie. I mean, it won't be perfect cause we're on camera, but I could try something with you just to take a look at how your neck is lining up if you don't mind Okay, okay So what I need to do is see a side view of you and if you could stand that would be better seated is okay But stand that we could try seated too, but standing would be a little bit better Okay, so what I want you to do is I want you to put your arms down at your sides and supinate your hands.

So you're gonna put your arms straight down and then turn your palms so that they're supinated. Yeah, but straight arms. Straight arm all the way down. Now what I want you to do is I want you to give yourself a double chin. Depress those shoulders down a bit more too. Okay, now, okay, yeah, oh no. So let's try that. Okay, now depress the shoulders, I don't know. Yeah, so let's try that. Okay now depress the shoulders Give yourself a double chin now. Let's let's flatten your low back at the same time

We bring this head back again, I'm gonna want you to do zone one and really focus on yeah No, yeah, I want you to nodule of your head Yeah I want you to really focus on zone one and prime and make sure that your your shoulder blades your low back and the and make sure that your shoulder blades, your low back, and the nodule in your head are in contact. And then I want you to really create tension there because what's happening is, as you're getting that position, you're going anterior tilt with your spine.

And like when you said, when you opened, you have some forward shoulder. So it's not so much like I can do this, it's can I do this while maintaining other things because there's some compensation going, it's not bad, but that's oftentimes where it comes from. Whenever I hear someone have an issue with their, you know, kind of mid trap and it feels like a knot,

it typically is coming from the alignment in the cervical spine. Yeah. And you don't have to, in the zone one, you have your arms like externally rotated to press into the wall. You can actually keep them down and work on that, you know, exclusively for now, just to reiterate what Sal's talking about and really work on the nodule contact while not like flaring those ribs up.

Yeah, the red flag there, Julie, was how you jerk yourself back and try to jerk yourself into position. So you're trying to get into position, you're doing this. And what that tells me, there's a little bit of lack of connection there and so it would be something you would want to work on but technique is so imperative that even a you know a small deviation in technique is gonna make the movement

not effective anymore. Another exercise that would be good for you is a prone cobra. I would really like a prone cobra would probably really be good for you is a prone cobra. I would really like, a prone cobra would probably really be good for someone like you. But again, maintaining that real tall. It's like you're trying to make the top of your head or kind of the back top of your head as tall as possible while doing a prone cobra. That should help with some of the stuff that you're noticing.

But in the meantime, you could definitely reduce the volume of your shrugs. Yep. Okay, is there any idea on a weight that would be good for someone my size or it just depends on how I feel? Yeah. It's less than what the weight. Yeah. It's about connection right now.

Totally. It's going to be all about connection and you don't have to go heavy on shrugs at all. And look, how many times have you run through that program? Just twice. You could even skip the shrugs for now and really focus on what I kind of mentioned and try to correct that and then maybe introduce them a little later

with really lightweight. And you're not even trying to go intense. You're like moderate at best. You are even like replacing with farmer carries or something where you're really reinforcing that posture. Right. That would help. Yeah we do those a lot as well and we do tons of Cobra in Pilates all kinds of the movements that you have in prime. Yeah great. Yeah that's good good but when you do it I want to The intent is so important. The intent is really important. Yes, really create that

length in the spine and slow down and just connect. What's challenging about this Julie is sometimes it's harder to work with people who have been practicing movements for so long or have a certain level of fitness because your recruitment patterns are so set and the deviations in your form are hard to see in comparison to somebody who doesn't do that stuff. Like somebody who doesn't do that stuff is really easy to see deviations. Someone like you, like if I was in there,

if I was there working with you in person, it would be like a half an inch here, an inch there, a centimeter here, and then it would make the big difference. But it's really about creating that traction through the spine as you depress the scapula, as you maintain kind of a neutral spine in the lumbar area. And you want them very retracted as well, right? I do, but you notice when you're retracting them how they shrug and your head came forward

just now? Yeah, we're just conscious of a little bit of compensation. You want to be able to bring them back and down. Not back and up, back and down while maintaining tall cervical spine. While maintaining the stretch. Do you do scapular circles? Yes, all the time. I'm assuming you're really flexible.

Yeah, I think it's more about the tension. We do, yeah, with the reformer, we do tons of stretching. Yeah, so lots of flexibility without certain types of stability can cause, uh, sorry, without certain types of connection can cause instability. So what I would see with, uh, Pilates instructors sometimes more often with yoga

instructors would be these kinds of injuries, these nagging injuries. And it was really because their range of motion was so good, but there were areas where they would lose connection, and that would cause instability. So if I did strength training with you, my movements would be twice as slow.

I would have you slow everything down. Slow and more isometric tension focus. I would create tension at the top, create tension at the bottom, and just really, really, especially if you're complaining about that mid-trap kind of tightness, I would really focus on lengthening the spine through most of the movements. Okay. Awesome. Got it. Thank you. All right, Julie. Thank you, Julie.

Thanks. Appreciate it. It's always difficult when you have somebody who has fallen in love with modality so much that like you could tell that when she opened up Prime, she looked at a bunch of movements and said, oh, I already do all these. So I don't need to do this. I already do them in my class. And here's the, here's the, this is important. Matters.

Exactly. This is important to communicate to the average listener because I'm sure she's not the only one that has thought this way too, is there's a big difference between doing yoga and Pilates and then doing priming in order to correct something. And the intent, so you can't look at, oh look, I do prone cobras. Well, if you do prone cobras and you have bad movement patterns, you still got bad movement patterns. Reinforcing bad patterns. If you do prone cobras, so anybody who's been watching this series that I'm doing right now, I've been doing prone cobras. And if you watch when I do prone cobras, I'm struggling. I'm struggling because I know that I've got an

issue going on and I know I'm trying to work it out and fix it in that. I'm not just going through the movements. I mean, I could do prone cobras and the average person would watch and be like, oh, those are pretty prone cobras. But you're tweaking every little portion of that. That's right. I'm thinking about my head that's wanting to protrude forward. I'm thinking about that left shoulder that I have the injury because the pec injury and it needs to get more rotated. Like, and I'm holding that in that isometric hold trying to correct that.

I'm not just going through the movements. And this is the problem with class type settings or people that take this stuff is they go, oh well, I do those movements. Yeah, but if you're getting issues where you have chronic pain or you're getting tightness in a trap like this, that means you're not moving. It's not the weight, it's not shrugs. People could do 50 shrugs in a workout and not have that problem. The not is because there's a problem with the movement and it isn't because you're not doing the right. The not is because there's a problem with the movement and it isn't because you're not doing the right exercises,

it's because you might be doing the right exercises and not doing the wrong way. Look, you take a golf instructor and you ask him who's harder to teach how to do a proper swing, somebody who's never swung a golf club or somebody who's been swinging a golf club wrong for five years. The person swinging it wrong for five years

is gonna be harder to teach because they've got some ingrained patterns and so this is what what tends to happen with people like this and then you know the whole like because we get this too from people oh I see the work exercises maps and a ball like I've done all those look I can give you two completely different dishes both of them contain four of the same ingredients it ain't the same dish Just because they both have butter and they both have milk and they both have olive oil doesn't mean that they're exactly the same. It's not even the same. It's how you cook it and some of these other

things that are in there that create the dish. So it's not just the exercise. It's how you perform them. It's the tempo. It's the intent. It's the order. It's how they're laid out throughout the week. There's the intent. It's the order. It's how they're laid out throughout the week There's so many things that go into workout programming. The exercises is literally one Factor, but again, you could hear it in her. Look, I've trained lots of low quote-unquote fitness fanatics who were spin instructors yoga instructors You know Pilates and they come with the same attitude. Oh same attitude, oh yeah, I do all those things. And then two weeks later they're like,

oh, this is very different. This is completely different than I thought, and it starts to work. And again, I could see it, that's why I had her do it, because I could tell she was a little smug, like oh, I can do all these. All right, let me see you go sideways and try this. And she's jerking herself in a position,

no, you don't own the movement, you don't have the control, you don't pass zone one. Yeah, I knew that right away. I'm concerned about zone one, not your lower body right now, we can get to that later, because if you're telling me you're shrugging and you have that knot, I don't even need to see zone one. I know that you would fail.

And I know that I would need to work on something because that's exactly what tells me that. The fact that it's not a matter of weight or the amount of reps that you're doing of shrugs, if one side is getting this knot there, there's a movement pattern. There's an issue. That's right. You're not supposed to get pain. So I don't even need to see her do zone one to prove my point. I already know it, but if I was training her as a, it was like, we're going to go start every workout with zone

one, and I'm going to be very detailed on where I want the nodule overhead, where I want her scapula, what I want her focusing on holding and creating an isometric contraction and really intensifying that before she goes into these workouts. And then when you go apply five sets, 20 sets, 100 pounds, doesn't matter the weight and reps of the traps, they should feel equally sore in the same areas and not these weird knots that are happening. Our next caller is Christina from Canada. Hi Christina. Hi guys, I was on your show

three months ago asking about the carnivore diet and doing a figure show. Oh yeah, I remember you. Yes, my focus is no longer trying to look a certain way. I just want to get as strong as I can like a beast. So to put my question, I was a competitor for the last 10 years competing in bikini and then just did my first figure show three weeks ago which I won my class. After competing Maps Anabolic you guys got me hooked on getting stronger. So I'm taking a step away from competing and want to concentrate on how strong I can get. I know how important it is to get enough calories in to gain strength. I'm on a whole food carnivore diet mainly eating high quality meats like grass, fed, beef, bison, salmon, free-range eggs, chicken, and seafood. I'm consuming around 1500 calories a day because I just can't eat anymore and I know it's going to eventually affect my strength gains. I know I can

get more calories in if I eat grain-fed beef as it's higher in fat. My question is, is 1500 high quality calories just as good as eating 2,000 lower quality calories when trying to bulk for strength, muscle, and size? Does calorie quality make much of a difference? Good question. The context really matters here. So okay, so if you consumed another 500 calories, but it came from more saturated fat or whatever. I mean it would depend on the balance of what else you're eating but you need more calories

for someone who trains as much as you do. So let me ask you this because I know we talked last time, I remember our conversation. Are you okay with consuming honey or fruit or do you react to anything that's not, you know, strictly in the carnivore list? Can you have any kind of carbohydrate? Yes, I do well with melons and oranges and yes, honey and maple syrup. Okay, I would add, that's what I would add. I would add a few servings of those kinds of things because your protein's probably fine, your fat is probably fine. Where you'll get the strength gains are gonna be from some of that glycogen. of things because your protein's probably fine, your fat is probably fine.

Where you'll get the strength gains are going to be from some of that glycogen. That's where you're going to get some of those strength gains. So if so, so rather than switching to grain fed, I would add honey, melon, oranges, and get some of those carbohydrates in there and you'll, you'll get pumps, you'll get stronger. You'll see some pretty, pretty good results from that. How are, what about berries and stuff? Are you able to do berries? Yeah, I can do berries. Yeah I would, I just I'd start to add fruit.

That's it. Fruit and honey to the diet. That's it. And I think you would see a big bump in calories and energy from that. 1500, even if they're pure clean, great, those are great calories and that's a maybe a good calorie mark to stay lean and ripped and fit as far as aesthetically. But if you're going to build muscle and you're going to get strong, I'm going to need you over 1500 calories at some point. Especially someone like you. You have a good amount of lean body mass. You've been training for a long time.

You've done exceptionally well considering the calories are so low. So you know and at this point, adding some of those carbohydrates, you're just gonna see more gains from it. Because again, your protein and your fat is great. I'm assuming you're hitting your body weight in more on protein because of the food choices. So I wouldn't be worried about that. I would add the honey, the melon, the berries,

the ways of getting some of those carbohydrates in, which you're gonna, and you look at all the, try it out, but you look at all the data on carbohydrates and they contribute significantly to, to power output in particular. Can you have a peanut butter oatmeal? Probably not. And honey, you said honey already. No, no, those are both pretty active. OK. I'm just curious. Yeah, I've been doing really good. My strength has been increasing. Since I started MAPS Anabolic, my strength has doubled. Wow.

Really? That's awesome. That's amazing. I'm so excited and just hooked on just getting stronger and stronger. And that's why I'm putting the bikini away and just want to get as strong as I can. Isn't it fun? Yeah.

It's so much fun. So thank you so much for that. How would you compare, uh, your lifting before to anabolic? So as anabolic, does it feel like, wow, it's so much less than you what you're used to and you're getting stronger? Is it the same amount of volume? What does it feel like in comparison to what you did before? Well, before I was just overtraining and just doing higher reps. And now I'm taking more rest days and taking more rest in between sets.

And yeah, it's crazy. Like for instance, I was only squatting 50 pounds before. Now I'm at 175 in a matter of three. Wow. That's so sick. Yeah. That's awesome. But you know what's cool about this too this to Christina is you probably notice just a quality of life improvement because you probably have more energy Better sleep the whole deal or mood all that's more time Big time. Yeah. Well awesome. Well, good job. Great. I'm glad to hear this But yeah add those carbs from food sources that you don't react to because I'm assuming you went I think we had this kind of I'm trying to recall You went carnivore because you don't react to. Cause I'm assuming you went, and I think we had this kind of, if I'm trying to recall,

you went carnivore cause you just reacted terribly to certain foods. So I would- Bad audit. Yeah, exactly. So reintroduce those carbs and do it slow. Do it slowly, bump them up. And what you should notice pretty quickly is strength gains.

Like you should notice within a couple of days that you're just feeling stronger in the gym. And should I take that before I go out or after? Before. Before, but yeah. To power your workout. After two potentially, but I mean, I would love to see, like I would love to see a fruit bowl

with like honey drizzled all over it before you go into a workout. Yeah, like if you, let's say you're eating, you know, 100 grams of carbs okay I would do uh like 50 before maybe two hours before an hour before 50 afterwards like surround your workout with the carbohydrates if they're that low if they start to get higher than that then you can have them throughout the day um but it would be around the workout you know an hour and a half or two before and then post workout. awesome. And can I do a shout out?

Yeah. Sure. So I took a course through Logan Dew from PPSC. It's to become a pain-free performance specialist because I want to go more into the training and she just put on a really good course about mobility and just how to exercise pain-free. So I just wanted to do a shout out to her. Awesome. Christina, are you attending our webinars for trainers and coaches?

I wish I had an air horn. I'm going to start. I've been getting the emails. I want to. Yeah. All right. Cool. I hope to see you there. Awesome. Thank you so much. You guys. Thank you. You got it. Okay. She said double her strength, but that sounds like 50 to 170. It's a bit more than double. Holy Toledo. I mean, I would love to see what happens when she actually hits some,

hits some good calorie numbers with some carbs. Yeah. Oh, she's going to carbs for her workouts. Do you remember, do you remember if she could have Greek yogurt? I can't remember. Cause like, like she's reactive to so many different things and the most reactive foods tend to be grains, legumes, legumes, yeah dairy. So that's why so...

So a big fruit bowl with honey all over it would be an awesome pre-workout. Yeah and you're seeing a lot of carnivore people do this. They go carnivore for a long time and then it's just like okay let me see if I can add some honey. That's usually where they start and then maybe add some fruit and then they just feel so much better. Our next caller is Drew from the UK. Drew, what's happening? You're doing, Hey guys.

How you doing? Nice to meet you. You too. Nice to meet you, man. How can we help you? Okay. Um, don't know. Everyone comes to say, Hey guys, great.

Thanks. Big, nice to meet you. But, um, yeah, I've, uh, I've looked up to you guys during lockdown. So I had a lot of catching up to do. Um, and the content you play was obviously really, really positive, but I don't, I don't think it gets recognized enough that the effect that the, the, the content that you play will probably have on people's mental health as well. It's been a massive help.

So I want to say thank you for that. Oh, appreciate it. Thank you, Drew. All right. So I know everyone knows a little bit of a backstory, but mine, mine only really goes back to the start of the year. Um, when I started taking my training a little bit seriously. Okay.

Um, I was going to the gym previously, but not really taking anything outside the gym and really paying any attention to it. So I decided to get serious about that. Um, made sure I could pick a routine in times of day that I could be consistent with cause I'd skip them if I skipped the more corporate routine short if I didn't have enough time. Made sure my protein was on point, my macros and my calorie intake was good. I wanted to, as most guys do, I wanted to lose weight, lose some fat, but maintain the muscle mass that I had. And it worked far better than I expected it to.

Then after a few months, obviously I started to plateau and thought I'd go into a bulk. I couldn't stay eating and staying on a deficit for too long. So I tweaked a couple of things that you would normally do when you go into a vault. So I'd drop the cardio, focus more resistance, increase my macros and increase my protein intake. And it's had no effect. Well, that's not entirely true. It had an effect that I didn't really expect. So my body felt like it went up, which I would, which I thought it would. I'm a weight did, but I feel like my strength gains has actually decreased since I've tried to go on a book.

Okay. Uh, uh, programming also like maybe what foods are we doing and if you have any gut stuff going on, how much of a, how much of a bulk did you go on? How many extra calories? Okay. So, uh, when I was in my deficit I was on 200 under maintenance when I went on my bulk went to 200 over. Oh that's it? It's a programming issue. Yeah yeah. It's a programming issue. We got to switch your workout. We got to change your workout up. Were you doing the same style of workout the whole

time? Yes, I went because I've tried to. I've run through anabolic a few times but I really struggled to fit full body in on a single day. So I went to push pull legs and cardio twice a week and that's what really really was very very effective when I went from 165 pounds down to 152 and went from 21% body fat down to 15. So I went from 10 to 12 reps and when I went onto the bulk I dropped down to 5 to 8 reps, dropped the cardio and just focused on the resistance, but I felt that from when I first started the bulk to now, I was doing three sets, now I actually have to strip some weight off during the last set because I can't manage what I was managing before. It's the first time that I never really could.

I thought I'd tweaked all the things that I needed to. It was the first time that I had come into consideration of my age because I'm 43. I know your testosterone starts to go down a little bit as you get older. Um, is, does it become that much more difficult as you get older to, to, to put on muscle and is it easier to lose body fat? A little bit, but there's something else going on. There's something else. It wouldn't be that it wouldn't happen that quickly though. Well, you tend to see as you age, especially for consistent is a slow gradual change.

It doesn't happen from one phase to another. So it's either the workout programming you need to back off us in volume or there's something else. There's other factor, sleep, stress. How are we testing this body fat too, by the way? You're not gonna like this. Okay. I've got a body composition scale. Okay. I know that's, uh, I know, I know, I know that I know they're not accurate, but basically I was, I was focusing mainly on how my clothes fit and how much way I was shifting at the gym. Sure. Sure. And I know, um, I don't want to have to apply to my wardrobe because all of my clothes are now far too big. I've got, I've got, I've dropped four

inches up my waist inside. It's a diet to cut and the weight continuously increased while I was a while I was on my cut but I haven't been able to put any I'll be I've been on the book now for about a month and a half and I haven't been able to what any weight on the bar at all typically that's a programming issue all If all the other factors are the same, and stress and sleep are the same as they were before? Yeah, yeah, they're not too different. I usually try and go to the gym now before work

rather than after, so I'm not too tired. So my sleep pattern's all the same. There's things that I'd work at home with and a few things that have elevated stress a bit, but not really considered I've noticed that much. Okay, and when you say a little bit, are you somebody that like, you don't really address stress?

Sometimes people say it's a little bit, and I'm like, what's going on? And they're like, well, you know, I'm getting divorced. Oh, it's a little bit like what's going on and they're like well you know I'm getting divorced well that's a big stress you know are you so is it is it really a little bit of stress or is it or is it something like if the average person like hey mate you're going through yeah I think you know no no no no no no no no it's nothing else no it's nothing major like that it's just a it's a remortgage on the house and trying to get all the paperwork and everything sorted on time and solicited letters and emails backwards and

forwards. But other than that, really nothing, nothing else has changed. My, my, my, my son is, is now, uh, he's, he's nine going on 14. So, uh, he's becoming more and more of a handful. Let's, let's switch up your programming. Um, I'd like to see you. There you go. How long you've been working out consistently now? Uh, uh, consistently, not, not ignoring the fact that I was, um, uh, that I, that I wasn't paying attention to dying and anything before that.

So about three years I've been going to the gym by only really Made a conscious effort that you know, I'm putting in all this work and not seeing any results I've tried so many different things. I went through our way through anabolic and I enjoyed it But it was difficult with the time constraints. It's like well, there's gotta be something else So as soon as I changed my diets That's when everything suddenly kind of clicked and everything started working and everything that I've all the goals that I was aiming for. They all worked. They all come into place. But it's only since

I tweaked it and changed to go into a vault that it kind of hasn't. Yeah, it's almost if everything's the same, then it's got to be the programming. I love to see you run maps 15 drew the advanced version. Yeah, and then and let's see what happened. We're gonna send it over to you And I'd like to I'd like to I'd like to hear back from you in about give me 30 60 days

You should see if it's if it is a programming issue What you should notice with maps 15 do the barbell and dumbbell version is you should notice your strength go up within the first week Or two it's gonna feel way different too By the way, it's a lot the volume is a way less in that So don't don't add anything don't do any like just just follow the programming trust the process and then circle back with us in Like 30 days and talk to us what you're noticing Okay, sounds good. I appreciate it. All right, Drew. You got it, man Awesome. Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate your time. Thanks a lot. Have a good day. See ya Yeah stuff like that's almost always a programming issue if what they're saying is accurate.

Yeah, if there's not other things that, yeah, we haven't investigated. Yes, because sometimes, and it may be, I believe them, right? I always believe the person when they tell you. But I've worked with people before, and it's like we're trying to figure things out four months into it.

I'm like, I thought you said your sleep was good. Yeah, but I mean, we're all a little bit blind to our own patterns. That's right. You know, so you got to consider that. There's also, what happens is when you train, uh, and you're hitting, uh, uh, beyond what's appropriate volume and you're getting away with it for a while, you don't get away with it forever. So what tends to happen is you get this cumulative effect of volume, and then

suddenly you stop progressing and you start to go backwards and you think to yourself what happened? Nothing changed. Nothing changed. In fact, I'm eating more. I should be gaining more. Well, you were probably overdoing it a little bit before and now you've been overdoing it for so long that it catches up with you, which is why we went to, for people wondering, that's why we went to Mass 15. Yeah. I mean, we talked about this, I think off air about the whole series that I'm doing right now. I could have seen a bunch of muscle gain

and still seen positive things, doing stuff a lot of things the wrong way. So your body is pretty resilient, and if you're somebody who's never really dialed your diet in, and even if you have a subpar programming, and then all of a sudden you dial a diet in, and all of a sudden you start seeing results. Sometimes it's in spite of what you're doing.

It's just like your body needed that alone, and then that made a big difference. It's like, we can still improve that. There's also the potential, and I didn't want to go down this rabbit hole because who knows, but those scales that have the body fat percentage thing are so inconsistent.

And if he... He had carbs at times? Well, yeah, so if he had a, let's say if, and you're on a bulk, right? So, and if he's a guy who has a hard time bulking and he has to really push the calories, and let's say the night before, and or the morning, I don't even know what he did,

like if he loaded up on carbohydrates the night before he went to bed, and then the next day he goes and does that body fat thing, that thing can be skewed quite a bit. So there could be that also. The thing that was probably most concerning is the strength loss. That doesn't add up. It's like, okay, that's weird that you're having to take weight off the bar that it sounds like you are moving more of. And so programming stress and then digestion would be the other thing would be diving to that is like is he is he now on his bulk is he adding something that is just not agreeing with his test his hormones I didn't know no

he was just asking about it and yes your hormones haven't in fact but it won't it wouldn't be that drastic that would be a big no like oh my god I went from this part and then all of a sudden, more of a gradual effect. Our next caller is Zach from Maryland. What's up, Zach? How can we help you? What's happening? Hey guys, how's it going?

Good, man. So it's a little more nerve wracking than I thought coming on the show, even though I've been following you guys for a while. So pretty much just jump into my question. I've been following Adam's journey lately with the, uh, with his rebuild going through and, um, you restructured apps 15 to work around an injury.

And my question is not so much an injury, but how would I restructure maps 15 to be more of like a like a maps like 35 or 45 like a mix of 15 and if I want to add some volume in on like days that I can train a little longer. I like that. I think it's actually pretty easy considering that the program is is Relatively low volume so you can kind of go what I would do So Doug and I were kind of talking off air a while back and he's like hey If I was following your kind of journey, but I wanted to put emphasis on shoulders

What would I do? And I said, I just add some shoulder volume into this program So what I would do if I was you, well, I'd just add some shoulder volume into this program. So what I would do if I was you and you wanted to add a little bit to it is I would pick one or two muscle groups that you wanna bring up, or that you wanna focus on. So it could be shoulders, could be calves, could be four, could be anything you want.

And I would build in on those days that you have 30, 45 minutes, probably one or two more exercises on just those specific days. And you should be fine because the volume is low enough on there. What I wouldn't do is add up, like I wouldn't add a bunch of big compound lifts in there, but you could easily add some isolation type exercises.

So I wouldn't add a bunch of more squats, more dead lifts. Like the program is comprised of some of the big motor movements. The idea was a minimalist program. What's the least amount of exercise you could do to get the biggest bang for your buck? That's how we created that. Now, if I was gonna go and say,

hey, I have days where I could go 30 minutes and I wanna do some other things, well, those other things would be other little muscles that I'd wanna focus on. So would that be shoulders, abs, calves, whatever? And I'd add one to two exercises on those days that I have more time. The real question, Zach is, is why do you want to add more volume? I feel like I'm not seeing the results and I don't know if it's, um, calories

are too low or, you know, just intensity is a little low or what. Usually I'm working out and I have a seven year old and a three year old with me kind of hanging out. So my rest times aren't just like kind of resting. I'm kind of playing cars or helping with gymnastics or that kind of stuff. So the real, so the real, we want to know if maybe my intensity is below. Well, I was gonna say, we wanna figure out why that's happening. It's often not because you're not doing enough volume.

I'm not saying that that's not the case sometimes. Sometimes that is the case. But often the answer isn't to add more volume. Often it has to do more with diet if the intensity is appropriate. So let's go to diet real quick. Okay. Do you know what your calories at? Your grams of protein? Are you consistent with all that? Yeah. Yeah. So my, my protein's between about 180 to 200. Pretty much, I mean, spot on seven days. Um, and then my calories are sitting right around like 27 to 2800.

And what is your goal? Is it to, to gain? Are you in a gain phase? Yeah, I'm trying to, trying to gain now and then, you know, spring time cut down. But so I've been at 27 to 2800 for about, I guess it's been about six weeks now. And I'm, I don't know, uh, if you're familiar with, uh, the carbon at lane. Yeah, that's, that's what I use. I use his AI on there and it's pretty good, man. If you're, if you're like not spot on with like the, your scale weight, it will not bump your calories, even though like you're like, you're like if you're like not spot on with like your scale weight, it will not bump your calories.

Even though like I feel like I could eat more, it won't, that will not. So part of me is kind of like, do I just kind of go with my own and not use the AI model or? So you feel like you could eat more and you technically almost want to eat more but the app's telling you to stay at this calorie point. Yeah, there's certain times, certain times. Okay. Where I could eat some more.

Okay, and you're watching my series, right? So one of the things, and I'm sure you've heard me communicate this too because there's two things that could be potentially happening. I mean, you could be in a very sweet spot, which I know the way Lane has designed that app is it's designed to really, really slowly increase you

and really try and shoot for that kind of goldilocks zone. Try and get to only barely bump your calories when you need to. And if you're doing a really good job of hitting your caloric maintenance, you should lean a little bit. You should also build muscle. You might be doing better than what you think you are.

Just because you don't see any major shifts in the scale, you could be slowly changing body comp, which you know, you've heard me communicate while I've been going through my journey right now. And I know what a mental fuck that can be because you don't see the scale that much. You see yourself every day in the mirror. It's like, am I really moving? Am I doing any better? Um, if you're hit, I mean, you could see the, I don't see the, I don't see the change.

And I know it's a slow process, but I don't see the change. Like I, like my brain tells me that I want to see the change Yeah, is your strength any different? Yeah, how are your lifts? Lifts are going up. Oh, you're doing good Zach you're fine. You're doing you're doing good Zach. If you're getting stronger, you're doing good. If you're getting stronger, you're doing good Yeah, and and don't add volume. That's why I was asking itself and sell sell challenging I mean, I was just purely thinking out of, like, oh, I'd like to do more stuff.

But if it's because you didn't think you were seeing good results, adding volume isn't necessarily the answer. Especially considering you're getting strong, sounds like your kind of weight is staying the same. You know you're hitting your protein take. You're following a good app like Lane's Carbon app. I would actually guess you're probably

right in that little sweet spot, which is a mind fuck bro. It's why most people can't do it. It messes with their head. It's really hard. And I've been the type I hear you guys talk about the yo-yo dieting and I've kind of, the past in the past, I've kind of done that up and down, up and down. And you know, became that little bit softer version of what I was softer

smaller version but never really in in the like body fat range that I want to be at. So so for me to not see change and continue to eat more is really hard. I get it. No stay the course. I get it. I get it. You're getting stronger, you're improving. What's your height and weight too, Zach? Where you at?

How tall and big are you? I'm about 5'9", about 190, 1'192". OK, those are good calories. And you're moving up just fine. I actually think that they probably have you right where you're supposed to be, bro. I mean, here's the thing too. If? If you're a client of mine, and you were really struggling with this, I can put you on a 200 calorie bump for a week. You're not gonna get fat from that, you know?

But if you wanted to feel it, and you wanted to see does it make this improvement, or you see this visual improvement, there's another thing that happens when you're right on the sweet spot of calories. And let me tell you, I'm always reminded of this as I go through this process. So I don't know if you how closely you're following or not, but just last week was the end of my bulk and I hit two peak days of 4,000 plus calories. This whole time I haven't seen over 4,000 calories. And bro, let me tell you, I felt good. I looked good.

I'm all filled out. But I know that that's because I'm all filled up. It's not because I'm necessarily got more muscle, just because I've filled up all those muscle bellies. And so in the reflection of good, but if I kept holding those calories that high, I'd put on body fat. Did I lose him, Doug?

Yeah, he just disappeared. It's all right. He didn't like my answer. No. That's it? Oh, he's coming back. Okay. Oh, he's back.

There we are. Oh, I thought you did. Oh, there we are. I thought you Oh, he's back. There we are. I thought you didn't like my answer. I thought you didn't like my answer. You're like, fuck this guy. No, no. I didn't get it. Whatever, Adam. OK, OK.

So I don't know if you heard me saying that I had these back to back days of real high calorie, 4,000 calorie. And all of a sudden my body, I saw it for the first time like, oh man, now I feel really good. But I know I can't keep those calories that high because it'll eventually continue to overspill and get stored as body fat. So then I come back down to like today 3000 calories and now I feel like I lost 8 pounds of muscle. But I didn't lose 8 pounds of muscle. It's just that my muscle bellies aren't filled up.

So it's the psychological game of like if you're hovering right around that good maintenance calories, you're gonna have moments when the body's filled up. It looks kind of good. Then you have times in the bodybuilding world we call this flat. You're just not, you're not, you're not really filling the muscle bellies up. You're kind of keeping in this maintenance low level and sometimes in a deficit that's gonna lean you out, lose lose body fat, sometimes you're going to be building. That's that Goldilocks zone. Problem with the Goldilocks zone is psychologically it's a mind fuck because you feel like, man, I just don't look like I'm putting any muscle and size on. But you know, if you want to mess with this just for shits and giggles, run two days in a row of eating like 3,500 calories, just two days in a row, 3,500 calories, and tell me what you look and feel like, but don't get stuck there,

because you probably don't need to be that high, but two big days at 3,500 calories, watch how your body fills out. And what you need to know is all I'm teaching you is that's just what your body looks like when we fill all those muscle bellies up, and then you can kind of see for a second, oh shit, maybe I have put on size,

I just haven't filled these muscle bellies all the way out. All the way up, okay. Yes, and then go back to your carb guy or your carb carbon app and follow because I'm the the technology in that and what Lane's doing is good work there. Yeah yeah I like it it's it's I like the I like the uh structure of it it's it's pretty good. Are you are you on Instagram? Do you follow me on Instagram? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I actually, I was in, I was talking, I mentioned my Chevelle when you were on one of your lives. OK, yeah, yeah.

OK, yeah. So do two days of like 3,500 calories and hit me up in the DMs and we can chat. I bet you feel a notice of difference from that. Send you pictures? You're stupid. OK. Don't get jealous, bro. You guys got a second for another?

Yeah, yeah, fire away. What you got? What you got? So if, so let's say I, cause with having little kids, you guys all know, I'm probably going to be maps 15 or, you know, hovering around there for a while. Could I change it up to be more of like a symmetry like where I just change all the barbell stuff out for unilateral Yep type work you you know that that way my joints don't start talking to me You can you could also hang tight for about how many weeks Justin? Yeah, we're doing December December is it December 11th?

Oh December 11th. So December 11th? Oh, December 11th. So December 11th. We'll have something specifically for you. Yes. Okay. If you can wait. Yeah. If not, if you can hang into mass 15 till then we got something coming December 11th that will be perfect. It'll speak right to what you're talking about right now. All right. Awesome. Okay. Sounds good. All right, man. All right, Zach. All right. Thanks. Thanks for all your help guys. I'll talk to you later. You know, uh, if someone's not progressing with their workouts, uh, I would say, and they're consistent. Okay. So they're already consistent. 80% of the time the answer is not to add more. Yeah.

I'm glad you did that because I just went straight for, this is how you would add volume. That's the answer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, but 80% of the, that's not the answer. Yeah, I should have asked why though. Why do you want it? Why do you want to do that? But most of the time, it's not that. It's something else.

And again, there's 20% of the time when adding volume is what you need to do, but that's often not the case. And the reason why I ask that is if his answer was, I just like working out and I want to do more, I was, okay, here you go. That's what you could do, you know? Because that's me, right? I add volume not because it's appropriate, oftentimes, because I want to do more. I was, OK, here you go. That's what you can do, you know? Because that's me, right?

I add volume, not because it's appropriate, oftentimes, because I want to spend more time in the gym. He's fun, and yeah, you're challenging yourself. That's it, 100%. Yeah, but the fact that he is seeing strength gains. He's doing great. His body's not moving much. He's falling in app like a cup.

He's getting leaner and building muscle. Yes, he's like in that. And it is wild how this works, you know, and I'm telling you, it doesn't matter how many times I've done this, it's even a mind fuck for me, so I know these people how they have a hard time. And you're experienced.

Yes, yes. And you know what's happening. But when you're in that Goldilocks zone, you're always tipping in and out of surplus deficit, surplus deficit, that's what the goalie lock zone is. The goalie lock zone isn't this special calorie where you're building muscle and burning body at the same time. What it means is that you're staying so close to what

maintenance is that sometimes you tip over into anabolic and surplus. Sometimes you tip over into catabolic and a deficit. Now here's the problem with that is that when you do that, when you push calories hard, this is why bodybuilders still do it this way because they want to see the scale, they want to see their muscle bellies filled out,

and psychologically, it's easier for me to run at 4,500 calories, which is way more than I need because I'm in a bulk right now and I see myself filled out and bulked up and I'm like, yeah, I'm doing the right thing. Versus if I was probably where I need to be, which is more like 38, 3900 calories. And I never, I never get to see me all the way filled out. And I'm getting, I just did this two days in a row, 4,000 plus calories. And boy, I w I was like,

Oh, there I am. Like, there it is there. But then I go right back in a day later and I dropped down to 3000 calories. All of a sudden it looked, I looked like I lost 10 pounds of muscle. It's like, I know I didn't lose 10 pounds of muscle. I'm just deflated in comparison. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump, Justin. I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano.

Adam's at Mind Pump. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic.

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