Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2474: You Won't Build Muscle or Burn Fat Unless You Do This First (Listener Live Coaching

Episode Date: November 23, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: You will not burn fat or build muscle unless you do this one thing first. (1:45) The importance and value of trainers. (17:12) Strategies for trainers to retain clients during the holiday season. (21:35) More disturbing data on the loneliness epidemic. (25:06) When your kids ask you questions about having a girlfriend. (32:44) The best surgeons play video games. (38:20) Expanding your mind with Brain.fm. (42:39) Don’t mess with people’s kids! (45:41) Don’t trust everything you read. (47:52) Checking people with power and hope for America. (49:18) Shout out to Mind Pump Kyle! (56:45) #ListenerLive question #1 – Should I use the same philosophy training with bands, as I would with free weights? (57:42) #ListenerLive question #2 – When I finish Split should I run another high-volume program since I've responded so well to it? Or should I change things up and give my body a break and do a MAPS 15 advance, or just challenge myself differently with Anabolic Advanced? (1:09:01) #ListenerLive question #3 – I am wondering how much my steps should play a factor in my workout? (1:19:42) #ListenerLive question #4 – Knowing that I am coming from this place of having a slow metabolism from overdoing cardio, do I stay the course with my own strength training programming or is there something else I can do to speed up my metabolism? (1:32:51) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Kreatures of Habit: Meal One for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Black Friday Deals: 30% off site wide for first orders, including subscription orders. Sale is live from November 22nd - November 27th. ** Visit Brain.fm for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners. ** Get 30 days of free access to science-backed music. ** EARLY ACCESS to Black Friday Sale is open NOW! ALL MAPS Fitness Products 60% OFF. Coupon code BLACKFRIDAY. The code will expire Sunday December 1st. ** Each purchase enters you to win one of two 5 day stays at the Mind Pump Park City Vacation Home. Each winner will receive $1,000 cash for travel and food. Bundle purchase - 10 entries, Program purchase - 5 entries, ALL other MAPS purchases (mods, guides, etc.) - 1 entry. Winners will be announced and contacted in December. Mind Pump #2060: Maximize Fat Loss With Continuous Glucose Monitors: Kara Collier Train the Trainer Webinar Series What is Causing Our Epidemic of Loneliness and How Can We Fix It? The impact of video games on training surgeons in the 21st century Visit Paleovalley for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Bone Broth Protein – BOGO – Buy one get one free! The discount is now automatically applied at checkout 15% off your first order! ** Building Muscle with Adam Schafer – Mind Pump TV Mind Pump #2080: Get Jacked With Bands! Visit Butcher Box for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer!  ** New users can select their choice between a whole turkey, turkey breast, or ham in their first box + $20 off ** Mind Pump #2457: Four Mistakes That Destroy Your Metabolism Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Adeel Khan, MD (@dr.akhan) Instagram   Kyle P (@mindpumpkyle) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go Mind pump with your hosts Sal DeStefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast This is my pump right in today's episode people called in we got to help them out on air and coach them It was a good time, but that was after the intro portion. Today's intro was 55 minutes long. That's where we talk about current events. We talk about family life. We have a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, email us your question at live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Creatures of Habit.

This is high protein oatmeal. Great way to start your day and right now They're having the biggest sale of the year Massive massive discounts on all of their products 26% off site wide and more Go check them out. Go to creatures of habit comm forward slash Mp by the way creatures is spelled with a K. That's where you get the discount This episode is also brought to you by Brain FM. These are sounds and music that induce different brain wave states.

You wanna be focused, you listen to focus. You wanna have meditation state of mind, listen to meditation. You want better sleep, listen to sleep. And also, by the way, you can try them out for free for 30 days, it really does work. Go to brain.fm forward slash mind pump. Also, it's early access for Black Friday.

All maps programs, all maps bundles, everything is 60% off. If you wanna try our workout programs, which they're amazing, they work great, of course, they're 60% off, everything. Go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code Black Friday for this 60% off. All right, here comes the show. The most anabolic hormone you have in your body,

the hormone that can actually cause muscles to grow, the fastest is actually not testosterone, it's insulin. However, insulin can also make you gain body fat. If you do this one thing in the morning, you'll maximize your insulin for muscle building and minimize the fat storage capacity. But you gotta do it. Is that true? That's true.

Insulin is more of a anabolic hormone than testosterone? Technically it's the most anabolic hormone. You can argue one way or another, but it's now, it's anabolic in the sense that it builds tissue, it stores glycogen, it can definitely build muscle, it can definitely make body fat, you know, help you gain body fat.

Yeah, which is just animal, if that's right. And body builders, when they started to use, when you look at the difference between body builders in the 80s and 90s, it was a huge difference. Monstrously bigger. Yeah, so I've always, I've always, well, It was insulin. I've always wondered what is happening

from a mechanistic level. Is that insulin causing more of those calories to basically, so like, okay, I'm a bodybuilder, and I've been training for a long time consistently. I'm kind of peak muscle, talking to another bodybuilder guy, and he's like, bro, have you fucked with insulin yet? No, I haven't. So I try it.

Nothing else changes. I eat the same, I do everything the same, I start taking insulin. What is happening that now all of a sudden allows me to blow up 20 more pounds of muscle? Because it's- First of all, don't. No, I know, it's dangerous as shit.

It's the most dangerous hormone to mess with. So I mean, growth hormone, testosterone, like- But this was popular in the bodybuilding world. Very popular, and it's's again, this is largely why the 90s you had these bodybuilders who suddenly became massive and it wasn't that they took more anabolics, it was the insulin that they took. Cause they always, they took growth hormone in the 80s,

early 90s as well, it was the insulin. Yeah, so what it'll do, it'll shuttle glycogen and amino acids into your muscles at ridiculous rates. And so what bodybuilders do, and I'm not super like privy to this, you know, I never did any of this stuff and I never coached bodybuilders on how to take hormones. It was just something I was interested in. They would take it like pre-workout, post-workout with carbohydrates and they'd get, you know, they were talking about getting crazy pumps and how they pack on all this

muscle type of deal. We know that insulin resistance leads to fat storage and sarcopenia. Insulin resistance also leads to muscle loss. This is why diabetics typically or even pre-diabetes typically results in some muscle loss and why obesity can also result in muscle loss. It's because of the insulin resistance. Keeping your body insulin sensitive is very pro-muscle and very good for fat loss or to keep you lean. And there are lots of things we can do that can affect how sensitive we are to insulin.

Strength training, obviously one of the best things you can do for insulin sensitivity. Building muscle really, I mean muscle is very insulin sensitive so when you have more of it, or it's healthier and stronger, it's going to react to insulin in a good way. So whatever insulin you produce, you're just more sensitive to it. But in activity also, walking or moving after you eat,

so when that sugar goes in your blood, if you move, that really does affect insulin sensitivity. How do the diabetic bodybuilder guys manipulate this? They take insulin. I know, that's my point. So are they taking a little bit more than what they're recommended for health? Is that like what happens?

Probably, that's a good question. I know there's guys, that's how I first really started to find out about it was there was guys that had to take it because they were diabetic and then they used it in a way, and I don't know if they take a lower dose, they take it more frequently, they take a little bit higher. And so I'm just trying to wrap my brain around exactly how this, if I'm eating, so let's say for me,

I need to eat 4,000 calories to be in a calorie surplus to build muscle. Does it theoretically mean that if I'm taking synthetic insulin, that instead of me having to push all the way to 4,000 to store some of that and build muscle, maybe I only need to eat 3,000 or 3,500 so the additional calories get partitioned over to building muscle because of the insulin. I mean theoretically, I do know that... I know that's probably not the best scientific way to explain it, but that's the way I understand it. I'm not quite sure and again I wouldn't mess with insulin because...

Well no, it's extremely dangerous. Oh very dangerous. I'm not definitely not fucking recommending this at all. No, but you put yourself in a diabetic coma. But I've always wondered, I've always wondered like what it... because I know guys that I've seen take it and they all of a sudden, 30 pounds. Yelling crazy.

Yeah, they'll take it and then they'll eat a ton of carbohydrates and food. I heard that there's an insulin-like growth factor, right, like what is it, like where's that, like where'd that come from? Insulin-like growth factor, IGF-1, that is different, that's elevated from growth hormone. That also has

anabolic fat burning effects. And there's a synergistic effect, right? I know we're going down this rabbit hole, but you know bodybuilders have really mastered the use of all the hormones and when to use them and then there's synergistic effect, right? So I think if you're not on steroids and you take insulin, you're not going to build muscle from it. But because they're on steroids, because they're on growth hormone, then they throw the insulin, you're not gonna build muscle from it. But because they're on steroids, because they're on growth hormone, then they throw the insulin, you get this synergistic, insane effect. Nonetheless, insulin, it can be an anabolic hormone,

but you want your body to be sensitive to it. And I'd mentioned two things, right? Lift weights and then move after you eat. And then here's the other one. Eat a high protein breakfast. Start your day off with a high protein meal. That actually improves insulin sensitivity all day, regardless of what you do for the rest of the day.

Levels it out. Yeah, so, and we know this with CGM data. So, now that CGMs are available to the average person, lots of people now use them. It's not just diabetics. Now the average, you know, lots of everyday people will use a CGM just to monitor their blood sugar to see how food affects them and to- Do you know what the worst food is?

What? The absolute worst. It's been tested. Is it pineapple? Nope. What? The single worst thing that you could do. For insulin, for sugar spike?

Yeah, yeah. What? Skittles. Oh, wow. Yep. Really? It's the worst. Well, I mean, yeah.

I was actually just watching someone break down like the CGMs, and they tested all these different foods, and they found that Skittles has the worst response. What kind of sugar is it? I don't know. It's not just sugar. There's a couple of other factors, but sugar is a big one. But you know, there's an individual variance, too. Well, of course there's still it.

Because you could have them feed cows at the end. This was obviously a test over hundreds of people. Oh, really? Yeah, all types of foods. So of all the ones, of course there's still, this was obviously a test over like hundreds of people, all types of foods. So like of all the ones, of course there's always an individual variance. Like there was probably somebody who could eat Skittles and it's like a banana or something to them. But that was the one out of everything. Wow. By the way, this is why the meathead, you know, fitness influencer idiots will tell, and I call them idiots because this is like a minimal effect, but they'll tell people to eat candy post-workout, to spike your insulin, to make yourself more anabolic.

That's not gonna make that big of a difference. And again, you want insulin sensitivity. You're not trying to get your insulin to go through the roof. And the people that think that they see a difference, it's probably because you're getting an extra 300 calories, it's really easy to eat. That's right, that's right so but a high protein breakfast if you start your day off with protein the rest of the day what you see

with the CGM data are smaller spikes and drops and insulin so even if there's if you have two groups of people eating exactly the same later in the day but one group starts with 30 40 50 grams 50 grams of protein, the other group doesn't, you'll see a difference the rest of the day. High protein, starting out high protein. Is there other benefits out to like what that high protein is paired with too? Like for example, like creatures of habit, they've got like, they've got stuff where they've got nuts and oats, and then you also have the 30 grams of protein. So is that just taking 30 grams by itself of protein or is it the combination that also has benefits?

Protein is the factor that makes the biggest impact. When you combine it with some fats that it's even better. And then carbohydrates are fine if you have those. Actually, you brought up creatures of habit. That's one of the best fast quote unquote healthy processed foods, right, because it's in a bag, so you could just pour water in it and it's ready to go. It's one of the best ones that I've seen.

I can't think of too many other quick breakfast meals that don't require. Yeah, some simple that you can just put together real quick. Yeah, because it's 30 grams of protein for a packet. Yeah. And if you do two of them, that's 60. And minimal calories. I basically toggle back and forth between that and the Greek yogurt right now.

That's kind of like, I'm trying to get tighter on my calories and the bacon, sourdough, toasted butter and everything from eating out is like one of the easiest places for me to shave and one of the best things to do that is to switch over to Creatures of Habit or my Greek yogurt for breakfast. That's like an easy. Yeah but if you if you just did three things you would see significant improvements in your insulin sensitivity. Lifted some weights. If you move for five to ten minutes after you ate each meal just get

up and walk and then start your day off with high protein you would see nice improvements in your blood sugar and how your body reacts to the insulin that you already produce. That's the key, right? The key isn't, and again, I'll go back to those fitness meatheads that I talk about where they're like, spike your insulin.

You don't want to spike your insulin, you want whatever insulin you're producing to be more effective. So I'm not trying to double my insulin production. I'm trying to double the effectiveness of the insulin that I already produce. We want insulin sensitivity. We don't want more insulin necessarily.

And that's what'll help you with fat loss, muscle gain, athletic performance, all that stuff. And it's very closely connected to metabolic health. When you look at a lot of the chronic health issues that we suffer from, all of them, right? Cancer, diabetes, in women, things like PCOS, there's a close connection between those and insulin resistance.

And improving insulin sensitivity is a great way to prevent or at least reduce your risk of some of those chronic health issues. And this is why you got the biohackers. Now they focus almost entirely on this. I don't think this is the only answer. But the biohackers do, there is some truth in what they say when they talk about managing insulin sensitivity. They go nuts on this.

Well there's also, I mean we're not really talking about this, but the behavioral aspect that's attached to it too. I mean when you spike like the insulin and then you have that crash like that, you feel tired, you crave bad food. And so one of the things that I remember when we were wearing the glucose monitors

and when I was like trying to manage that, like it's crazy how much easier it was for me to make good choices. And so there's that aspect of it, because I know there's also the other side in the fitness community that will shit all over those things. Like, oh, as long as it's calories in versus calories out, we go back to that argument all the time. But it's like there's more to this for the average person who's trying to make better food choices, that if you do understand and you learn how these different foods spike your blood sugar like that and then how that affects your cravings, your behaviors,

your mood, your energy, there's a lot to unpack for the individual there to give them insight on, wow, okay, look, if I make these choices, it makes it a lot easier for me to continue making healthy choices. If I allow myself, even if it fits in my macros and my calories, to have this one food that I love to have, what I'm not realizing is the downstream effects that come with that also. Managing your cravings is one of the best ways to be able to be consistent with eating healthy. It's managing your behaviors and your cravings. Period, end of story. Otherwise, you're gonna be playing a game of, you know, I have these cravings, I have these urges,

and I just have to fight it all the time. Good luck. This is why I've never liked the cheat meal, cheat day strategy that the bodybuilding community promotes and that I think it's bled into the general population, right, and understandably, like, as a competitor, when you track every single thing, you weigh everything, then they can easily kind of manage that. Like, oh, one day I'm going to eat off the radar and then I have,

I can white knuckle it and get right back to my tilapia and asparagus the rest of the week. Yeah. So, okay, that works for you. But the general population. Terrible. Yeah. Allowing them just as they start to discipline themselves to eat, balance, probably level their blood sugar out, do all these great things by eating whole foods, then all of a sudden they go, oh, and I can't wait for cheat Saturday,

you know what I'm saying? And then they go bananas. You know what that reminds me of? What was that movie, there was that movie where, like once a year, you could like commit any crime, kill people. Oh, The Purge. The Purge.

Literally cheat meals is like the, it's the diet version of The Purge. Like if we just kill everybody once a year We'll get it out of our system. We stay inside. Yeah, there'll be no crime the rest of the year because we'll just get it Was that the premise of the movie? No, of course, I know the whole premise was that once a year Everything is legal. Everything's legal you murder everything Yeah, and that keeps everybody cool the rest of the year because they look forward to the splits here

You can kill your neighbor that keeps everybody cool the rest of the year because they look forward to the splits a year. You can kill your neighbor that you hate or whatever. Is that really? Yeah, dude. Such a weird premise. Who thinks of a stupid movie? So dumb, dude. It was so dumb.

That was the first horror movie I think Ethan watched. Was it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Such a... You know, it's, I don't know. As if human behavior works like that. That's not how human behavior works. The way human behavior works is typically

the more you indulge in, I don't know how to label it, bad behavior or whatever, the more you tend to. The more you tend to want to do it. So it's not like, hey, if I go get smashed once a week, then I'll never want to drink alcohol. I mean, I always. You'll probably want to more now. I don't know how many times I've been

on this roller coaster myself, right? And I'm always trying to remind myself of like how I feel right now When I've been so consistent with the whole foods and dieting and I haven't had ice cream haven't I can't I haven't had those things That I like I know that I like it ain't hard right now. It's not it's exactly it gets hard when I go You know what? I've earned it I haven't done this in so long and then I go indulge and I enjoy myself because I've earned it. I haven't done this in so long. And then I go indulge and I enjoy myself because I've earned it. And then now that creeps back.

And now I'm thinking about it. And now I'm like, well, a little bit more is not so bad. And then you start, and then all of a sudden you know, it's like, oh shit, now it's back in my life. You let it in. And so it's, I'm always trying to remind myself that I don't, like right now I don't feel deprived of those things.

And by the way, the reason why we communicate to people balance and how, you know, if you go out and you enjoy a pizza, it's not that big of those things. And by the way, the reason why we communicate to people balance and how, you know, if you go out and you enjoy a pizza, it's not that big of a deal, because there's another side to human behavior that's also very important that we observe as trainers, but it's just true, which is when you tell yourself you can't and everybody tells you you can't, you tend to want to even more. We're rebellious by nature. We are.

So, it's not that you can't go do these things, like you can, and there's balance baked into it, and sometimes it is healthy to even more. We're rebellious by nature. We are so, so it's not that you can't go do these things like you can and there's balance baked into it and sometimes it is healthy to eat pizza. Maybe not physically healthy but you're connecting with your friends, you're enjoying yourself like that's also healthy. So if you kind of have that mentality but then what tends to happen is what Adam said is you start to lead a healthier life and then you start to want to continue doing that and then it becomes less desirable. Like I don't really, it's not that big of a deal if I and then instead of saying I can't have pizza, you actually don't want it. I actually don't want it. You know the secret sauce to the listener that's

doing like that I mean getting my clients to connect to all the other things like like room like for me like if I'm coaching myself, I'm reminding myself, like man, imagine how good your gut has felt. How long has it been since you've had a normal stool and how has your sleep been and how has your energy and have you felt belowed and lethargic and all these things that I haven't had because I've been eating dialed in, right?

And so if you can attach the way eating like that makes you feel and all the other positive things besides just the Hedonistic taste of it and the value of that. Yeah, it's easier to sustain. It's easier to maintain But when you are the way you look at food always is purely in that window What makes me fat or yeah, or what tastes good or doesn't? Yeah, you're saying like, it's like, that's a lot of people frame food and they frame it as like, you not eating those foods, you, it's, oh my God, how could I ever miss out on, I mean, Jack in the Box and Taco Bell, it's, oh, like, and you

don't realize like your palate has completely changed over to, you won't even, if you go away from that for long enough, you won't even want that type of stuff. Oh, and this happens with all, you know, what you would be considered logically healthy, good behaviors, including exercise. Like you get to a point where not moving just doesn't feel good. And you just, you'd rather move. You'd rather not skip your workout.

You'd rather go, and you adjust the intensity because you're not always gonna work out hard, but that's the place that I always sought to get my clients was how could I get them, actually I don't wanna say always, at the beginning of my career my goal was just to get them to whatever their goal was. Yeah, feel what optimal feels like first.

Yeah, but later it was like, can I get this person to want to do this for the rest of her life? And if I can do that, I've succeeded. Cause when you do that, when you, when you're able to get to that place, um, this becomes now a part of your life. And it's not something that you stop. Cause that's the real challenge. The real challenge is how do you get, how do you, it's not the weight loss. It's the, how do I keep it off?

Cause everybody loses weight. Nobody keeps it off. That's where everybody screws up is how do do we keep it consistent? And consistency comes from wanting to do it, so that's the thing you need to focus on. I get real pumped, I'm real pumped right now because we just did our webinar with our trainers. We're teaching them stuff and man, I tell you what, that is one of the funnest things that we do. Yeah. I wish you guys wouldn't always try and sell my naked pictures.

Every time. It works, though. Everybody gets it. We always get a few extra sales for that. Guess whatever it's going to take to get the sales going. We don't have naked pictures of Justin. We're about to get DMs from people. What?

I want to get some of those. No, we don't have. Yeah, that was great. You guys really, I think, I thought it was one of your better ones, for sure. It's a good time, man. I love talking to you. It's the closest thing to what it would have been like

to run the gyms with each other. Yeah. When you think about everything that this business encompasses, that part of it is the closest, or at least personally, that's how I feel, is the closest to mirroring what it would have been like for us to run a gym together.

Right? Because we're working with trainers, which is what you're, I mean, a big part of the job when you're running a gym is most of the gyms that we ran. That's the lifeblood of the gym. Yeah, yeah, 15, 20 trainers were inside there. And so communicating, you know, client retention and sales and communication and forecasting and all this stuff

that we used to talk about. And so we've never really experienced that together because even though we work for the same company, we never worked together. So I think that part is the part that I think that it is. It's also just, I love trainers, I really do. I know what motivates them to do what they do. They really do care.

And of all the people in the fitness industry, you look at the whole industry, there's a lot of people that make that industry work, but nobody impacts people more positively in a real way like trainers. Nobody. We don't. We still don't. Even though we have this podcast for each of millions of people, I remember what it's like training people

and working with them and that impact is, when you do a good job, you change somebody's life in really fundamental ways and so I just love, I love it. What we communicated, in fact, it's probably good to communicate on the show too, is one of the topics was, for the trainers, is how to get through the holiday season with their clients, very tough. The fitness industry suffers during the holiday season with their clients. Very tough, the fitness industry suffers during

the holiday season. People don't go to the gym. It's hard to keep people consistent. Kind of account for it. Like this half of the year is gonna be pretty tough. Yeah, and so, but there were strategies that we figured out towards the end of the year that really helped. And I think that the average person would benefit

from hearing these. One of the main things we talked about was, a lot of people go into the holiday trying to think to themselves like how do I not eat too much, how do I lose weight, how do I not gain weight and what we figured out was why don't we go with it? Why don't we go with what tends to happen to the holidays and what a perfect time to reverse diet. What a perfect time to focus on building strength and that's what I started to do with my clients.

Towards the end of the year it was like, hey, by the way, Thanksgiving's coming up, then Christmas, rather than putting you in a cut, we're gonna reverse diet, we're gonna build muscle, build strength, we're gonna go with this, since you're gonna be out enjoying yourself anyway, get those calories turned into muscle,

and then start January, then we'll start the cut. And it's funny that a lot of those trainers hadn't heard that before. You know? I think the other mistake that I made early on in my career was over committing clients to a plan during the holidays too. Was, you know, I thought that's what they wanted.

I thought that was a smart strategy to be like, okay, let's map out all these. Rigid lines everywhere. Yeah, all these things that I wanted them to do. And what I realized was very, very small percentage of them would ever execute that to a T. In fact, most people, what would happen is not only would they not be able to follow through on

our plan through the holidays, but then what would end up happening was because they didn't, they got discouraged and then they would spiral out of control. And so I quickly realized that, okay, that's not the smartest strategy. Maybe if I set the bar low and give them like minimal expectations that they feel like, oh yeah, I could easily do that. You mean you tell me all I gotta do is go in three different times in the week and just

squat five times or deadlift or do something like, I could commit to that. That's like 15, 20 minutes. Like yeah. They don't feel like they failed. Yes. And then I always had stuff like, hey, we could also do these other things. But let's just agree that we're going to hit those protein targets first before you enjoy dessert or anything else. So make that a non-negotiable.

That, hey, I've got to make sure I hit my protein. So do that. And then, hey, let's agree that in the week, even when you've got family coming this and that, that you get away for three different times. And you just go get five sets of squats, five sets of deadlifts and just agree to that. And that right there in itself was like, it would mitigate so much of the damage that a lot of these clients would do.

And it also set them up for success because what they want to happen sometimes is those clients would do, they're like, hey man, I know you said, oh, I only had to do this, but could I do this or is it okay if I do that? Yeah, go ahead. You know, but I always wanted to set that bar low so that they, and then also too, that they understood the value of the holidays, which I think you communicate really well, Sal, is just that, you know, there's only so many times a year that you get to see that aunt, or it's only so many times a year where the entire family, you know, gets together for a weekend or whatever with that

for, or even just a dinner. And so is it really that important that that's the day you're measuring and weighing food and you're restricting yourself from the drink that your famous cousin or sister makes that everybody loves? No, man, that's not. And that's not going to make you fat. And that's not going to make you lose 20 pounds of muscle. We forget that relational health is part of health. In fact, I just read an article on

the loneliness epidemic that we're going through right now. So there's lots of data talking about how feelings of loneliness have been growing now for the last decade and they're reaching levels that we haven't seen before. And loneliness is strongly connected, correlated to poor health. It's actually connected to heart disease, connected to cancer, it's connected to mental health issues like anxiety and depression.

Humans are social creatures and when they are lonely, we just don't thrive, we don't do well. And I read this whole article on it and the group with the worst, I'll pull it up for you, the group, the age group with the worst ratings for loneliness, I believe were, was it like 30 to 45? 30 to 45 single women, right? Well, they didn't go with men and women,

but I've read that, yes. I've read that. Yeah, older men are really bad too, once they get past a certain age. All right, here it is. Yeah, we don't make friends. People between 30, you know. No new friends.

People between 30 to 44 of age were the loneliest. 29%, almost, so almost, you know, three out of 10 people were frequently or always lonely. Not sometimes, frequently or always. among 18 to 29 year olds. Here's what's crazy, 18 to 29 year olds were never lonely forever. Like when we would do data on this, kids, eight teenagers, they weren't lonely,

they were out hanging out with their friends or whatever. 24%, one out of, basically one out of four people in that age group are considered lonely. And they ask these people, what were the main reasons why they were lonely? You guys wanna guess? Like the reasons they thought that, things that got in the way.

World issues? No, no. I mean, this makes sense when I say it. Technology. Oh, they actually knew, they had the awareness to blame it on technology. Oh, they actually knew, they had the awareness to blame it on technology. Yeah, they wouldn't have admitted that.

Yes, technology and then no spiritual or religious life was the next one. So I know why I think technology makes people so lonely. Meeting people is scary, takes a little work, creates a little anxiety. All of us have a little bit of social anxiety. Yeah, it's a crutch. Well, it makes it easy to not see people.

It's a crutch. It's a crutch. You do not have to go through the awkward feeling. I mean, I can actually, I don't know if you guys can recall back to, I can. I can recall back to calling somebody on the phone and wanting to hang out or spend the night the first time and actually being nervous

and like, what do I say? What do I do? I even remember asking my mom, like, could you call his mom? Like, no, you have to do it. You call him, you know, and I go, so I remember that. I remember that as a kid.

Like talking to your friend's mom or something. Yeah, yeah. I remember that feeling, but and of course at that age You don't realize the importance of that skill and being able to do that and social media has now Bypassed out you can shoot an email a text message You can go in their DMS real quick or send them like it's friend request and see if it goes through or not I mean, I'll never forget when inzo were

Just when it so we had it God, it's been how many years since Enzo's been here? Six. Something like that. Six or more years. Enzo, shout out to Enzo, great kid, great man now, right? So he's in his 20s now. Yeah, he's doing big things.

We had him when he was a teenager working as an intern for us. And I remember, this was a lot when I was talking about Irresistible and a lot of that stuff was, conversely the guys were teasing me all the time about bringing that book up. And the talk around technology I think was just starting to really happen.

And I remember asking him what it was like, like do you guys have high school parties and stuff like that? I mean, do kids still get together? And he goes, oh yeah, occasionally they do that. And I'm like, well then how do you meet a girl? Like if you see a girl at a party and he goes, oh yeah, you know, occasionally they do that. And I'm like, well, then how do you, how do you meet a girl? Like if you see a girl at the party and he like broke it down and it was, oh, if you saw a girl across the way in a party, you look her up on Facebook and then

you friend, friend request her and then you'll see her phone go off and she'll grab her phone and she'll either accept it or deny it. And if she accepts it, then you can can say hey, what's up on there? And then if she responds to that then you go over and you go talk to her Like oh my god, that's crazy Like that is the process before you go you wouldn't just walk over and say hi I'm in so used to be just eye contact And I think what's what's interesting is I would not put him

in a socially awkward, he's a very charismatic, very intelligent, very well-spoken. He's more outgoing than most people. Yeah. And yet he did that. Exactly, and so that has just become the norm in a part of the culture, so that even your kids that have that natural gift, they could do it

if they needed to, they still don't. And then you take the kids that have that natural gift, they could do it if they needed to, they still don't. And then you take the kids that need that step to develop that muscle and that skill just as lost. You could take it, there's so many different layers to this, one layer is I don't have to leave my house to eat, to buy anything, to do anything. I could stay home. You'd be a sloth.

I could stay home, have anything delivered to my door. I don't need to ever go anywhere. So you're not even getting the social interaction of going to the grocery store, which is just down the street, or going to get something to eat or whatever. You Amazon it, door dash it, order it. And then another layer,

I have all the entertainment I could possibly, there's more entertainment than I could possibly consume. So I'm never so bored that I have to go outside. When we were kids, oftentimes you left your house because there was nothing, what am I gonna do? Just there's nothing to do, so let me just go outside. So the hardest part, Sal, has to be this, because you just listed like three different things and all three of those things are awesome. So it's how do you balance something that that that technology has evolved and made awesome convenient. And so that's what makes this so difficult is all three of those things on its face value are not evil, bad, ugly,

awful things. They're all wow, convenient, nice to have, awesome in a pinch. Like all social media, this business doesn't exist if it wasn't for social media. Like, so it has all these amazing things, yet it has this other side to it, and so. I think it's no different than needing to structure and schedule activity these days because you don't move otherwise. Like it used to be that you were just active

because your job required it. Yeah. Okay. And so we've made life so, so easy physically that people don't hurt their backs lifting heavy things anymore or working and breaking their, they don't exhaust themselves physically at work

like they used to. That's not a bad thing, but now we have to schedule activity otherwise we don't move. So it's like you almost have to like make yourself. You got to get up and go. And then some things you should probably avoid completely. Like especially if you're a young man, pornography is a motivation zapper. It will crush your motivation because a lot of the motivation that young men have comes from sexual drive. And if you're placating it with pornography,

well, why do I need to get up and go talk to anybody? I don't take that risk by going and getting rejected when I just, you know, I got rid of that urge real quick because I'm on the internet. Like, again, you're a teenage boy, when we were growing up, you want to talk to, you got to go talk to a real person. You don't have the opportunity to go on your phone. This is all related to the conversation I had with Everett last night.

And he was just very curious about like, you know, when I had my first girlfriend, like how I asked her out, like, you know, all the sort of steps proceeding that. And because he's like in this new school now and he's like trying to kind of fit in. And of course this also relates to like me trying to my best to keep him off of a phone and and he's trying to fight for and advocate for the fact that he needs it in order to like contact these people or like he's like talking to girl and like they give him his number he's like I can't call him on my iPad dad you know and I'm like oh yeah that's kind of that's kind of awkward but um he's, he's just like, he's like, the,

the thing that I've been doing is like I hung out with my friend and they have a girlfriend. And so he, he got, got brought into this like group of other girls. And so now he's like hanging out with, uh, this, this group. And he's like, I'm just trying to be like chill and nice dad. And I'm like, yeah, that's it. That's all you gotta do. And he's like, And he's like, now they're kind of paying attention, but it's like, I don't know how to progress this, or like, because his older brother has a girlfriend.

He just sees a lot of kids now are kind of connecting, hooking up. And so it was just kind of funny taking him through that. And I had to kind of tell tell him like, you know, okay. So in fourth grade was when, you know, I asked this girl's friend if she liked me. And then, you know, she kind of relayed that back. And then all of a sudden now we're going around, you know, and it was the same for him. He's like, oh yeah, around fourth grade.

It was like the same steps was like almost like parallel. It's so funny because like I told him when I was in sixth grade like I had my first kiss like it was like I'm a dare You know and it was in front of class in in the teacher Came out and basically saw it and told the girl's mom and then they broke us up right away You know next day and got and so anyway, he got a kick out of when he kissed the girl What's that? What grade were you in? I was in sixth grade. Oh my God.

Yeah. I forget how young, you know, this stuff that's young. Cause like that's his age and it's like, I can't, and I forgot that. And then it brought me back to that. And I'm like, Oh wow. That's, that's where he's at right now. And he's like going through puberty and he's like asking me questions about all that. And so it's, it's just kind of funny to kind of recount that.

And I'm like, well, I had my first serious girlfriend I think you know in ninth grade, like I didn't, I'm like so you're doing just fine. You know, like it's all gonna kind of progress. But yeah, just stay chill. Do they write notes to each other still, kids? Do they still write letters? I don't know, I mean text.

Do you remember that? That was everything. Remember you'd write a letter and then you'd fold it in a funny way. That's how you asked a girl out back then. Yes or no, you know what I'm saying? You'd roll boxes? Yeah, like a girl. Did you ever do the boxes where it's like,

do you like me? And it's like, one box yes, one box no, and then there was always a baby. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Okay, so you're saying there's a chance. That's where that comes from, dude. Every, that's why that resonates with everybody.

Oh yeah, what was that one with the four? Yeah, it's like, what's that called? Cudi Catcher. No, coot. Is that what it's called? Yeah, it's a cooti catcher. That's why that resonates with me. Oh yeah, what was that one with the four? Yeah, it's like, what's that called? Cudi Catcher. No, Cudi, is that what it's called? Yeah, it's a Cudi Catcher. That's right. Yeah, it's called Cudi Catcher. I just remember doing it.

Pick a number, you know? I did one with... I remember asking girls out when I was in fourth, fifth, and sixth grade, and taking jewelry from my mom's jewelry box. No! Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'd send a letter, then like a necklace in there,

you know what I'm saying? You came from jewelry? Wow. That's gangster. I even remember breaking up with a girl, I sent a letter like a necklace in there I remember breaking up with a girl and she like returned the necklace. You know, here you go. You can have your necklace back girls like I'm breaking up with this girl cuz she made my cereal soggy when I was talking to her. Oh, yeah Like the dumbest shit ever. I was getting annoyed. You were eating cereal. Well, I got to get out of the boat. She's like, no.

She's trying to tell me this story. I'm just like, you know what? I don't think it's going to work out. Just serious. Before high school, you break up with any girl that disrupts your relationship with your boys. That's like, you can't. I remember before high school, it was everything revolved around your boys. You know what I'm saying? That's like, you can't, I remember before high school,

it was everything revolved around your buddies. And then it was just, that fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth grade, it's like people are starting to hook up and get boyfriends, girlfriends, but even then, it's still like, just cool to say you have them, but you don't really hang out with them. You still hang out with your buddies. Oh, that's my girlfriend over there.

Yeah, you're not really like diving in. Yeah, you're not hanging out. And then in high school, you're like all inseparable. You're holding hands all over between classes and shit. And then, well, I guess we're gonna go hang out with her. Yeah, I remember, I remember like, I think it might've been my sophomore year. And it's like sophomore,

I'd been working out all the way up until, but you couldn't tell until I was a sophomore. And then you can kind of see a little bit. Yeah. And I wore, it was the first time I wore a wife beater just like as a shirt, like it was hot. To school? Yeah hot. Yeah. I took my shirt off. Of course you did. Just walking around. Right. Walking around. And I remember like a girl made a comment. She was like, Oh, she's like, yeah, she's like, you got muscles. And I was like,

wow, no, that's the best feeling. Are you kidding me? I mean, I had that became basketball jersey. That's exactly how it became the uniform. In print, just no uniform. It was put on me when I was a baby. That's like, that became the uniform right there. That's it, bro. It's imprint, just no. Officially uniform. That's how it became the uniform. It was put on me when I was a baby, dude. That's like, by the way, my wife buys them for my little ones. Even my little daughter. Break the cycle, dog.

Break the cycle. I got home the other day. Generational. They're so cute. When I come home, they wait for me and then they hear me coming in and we have a long hallway from the garage to the, you know, the kitchen is. And I'll see both of them just run towards me all excited and I see my daughter my two-year-old daughter and she's

wearing a wife beater dude she looks like a little little guido boy like what are you wearing? I was like oh I got her some too. You know we're talking about technology and it's bad things this that I have something that's like that's really interesting I think is good right so I saw the statistic on Surgeons that play video games Have you seen this stat before yeah, I've read this Well the best the the best you play the best who played the most video games are the best surgeons yet 20 in fact

They have stuff that's 26% more accurate and better. Yeah. I mean, is that just, I mean, related, obviously, to focus and staring high? Yes, yes. And high, yeah, and high. Because a lot of, you know, now, like, I mean-

I bet they're a blast to hang out with. Well, you remember our- They're either doing surgery or playing video games. Shut up. Yeah. I mean, you remember when we first met Dr. Khan. Like, that's- Oh, yeah. That's when he's bro

He was a world. He was world-class. Halo player. That's right I guess I guess Elon's like one of the top Yes, I heard that too. So do you know you know what it is is a So a lot some of these high like really really high-tech advanced surgeries involve you Using like an like a machine right see what's happening in the body. And you're moving just like a game. You're moving, you're watching the screen and you're moving to everything with like a joystick

and going in and doing surgery. That's how it is now. It's not like, yeah. I hope they're good at that game operation. I always sucked at that. I was good at that game. But I mean, that's 26% better is significantly better. I think I saw it too though, the joke was just like, so why would we not make every surgeon I mean, that's a 26% better is significantly better.

I think I saw it too, the joke was just like, so why would we not make every surgeon that's part of like school, like going through like this course of like video game stuff. Like, I mean, 26% is not like a small margin. That's a dramatic number. I mean, one fourth better by everybody just playing video games. That's crazy.

Isn't that wild? That is. Makes sense. You know, these top video game players, I know that they also get recruited for the military, right, as drone operators and stuff like that? Yeah. Well, it's wild how accurate all this stuff is.

I mean, when we were kids, okay, it's wild. When you think about how much this stuff has evolved, I mean, when we were kids, it's Mario and Atari, and Pong and stuff like that. I mean, when we were kids it's Mario and Atari's to pong and stuff like that. I mean that was just so basic. Yeah. Where now these video games translate into the real world so well. I mean just like the car dude. That thing is so accurate to what it's really like to drive the course. It's fascinating. Have you seen these video games? I guess you can visit these places and they'll hook you up. And they have these running pads,

and they'll hold you in place, and then you put on a hard nuggle. You can literally run. All directions. Yeah, and so have you seen the videos of these? I wanna give those a try. They look, I wonder what it's like, they look fun. So I saw one, there was a guy,

a guy was filming his buddies playing, so he's on the outside. And these guys were screaming and running, and they look like they Yeah, yeah, yeah looks like it might be fun. Yeah, I would try that no I mean, I look at you know the that the the glasses though the goggles Um, I still haven't acclimated to like the moving like that. Oh, that's right. It's me nauseous You get nauseous, but I do think like, I mean, even with the car is like that.

But I feel like it's just if I do like little bouts of it, like I only race for like 10 or 20 minutes, it keeps getting better and better. So it's almost like I can train that. So I think what happened to me, like I told you guys in my mid to late 20s was when I stopped playing video games because I just started getting sick and then I just never went back.

What is this? There it is right there. Doug, can you buy that for your house? Or is that just a- Check that out, yeah. Or is that just a- You wanna get one here now? No, dude.

We already have an expensive ass video game, you guys. It could fit right next to it. That's not a video game, bro. It's a simulator. It's a simulator. It's not a video game, bro. It's not a video game. Yeah, whatever.

I mean, I wanna try it, but I do feel- Ghostbusters, that'd be fun. A Ghostbusters one? I wanna do, here's what I would do. I know Adam would never to try it. When I do Ghostbusters, that'd be fun. A Ghostbusters one? I want to do, here's what I would do. I know Adam would never do this, never in a million. You know what I would do? You'd do the zombie, you'd pop up. Yeah, dude.

I'd want to be in one that's terrifying. So I played that. Those are fun. Remember when we all bought the goggles? Yeah. And that game, it was Resident Evil. I still play that. It scared the shit out of me, dude.

I remember the first time I played it, it was late at night, it was up in my other house. It was all pitch black, I was in the room all by myself, and I'm playing that game and those- Sneak up behind you. Oh my god, you can hear it? And you're like, oh my god. Oh yeah.

That's way too real. I love that. Way too real. Hey, speaking of technology, all right, so we're gonna be leaving after this to go create a new program, which I love. I love, love, love doing this with you guys. We've done this a couple times.

I wanna remind us, we're supposed to talk about them anyway, but I wanna play Brain FM Focus while we're creating the program. I'm gonna put it on the Mozart. Put it on in the background. Justin's pretty consistent with being that person. Like out of all of us, when it comes to using the Focus for when we're writing, creating, you always do it.

I'm just like, I'm so scatterbrained otherwise, to be honest. Like I wish I had that when I was in school. Probably would have made my experience a lot more effective. It's weird. You put it on, you start listening to it. I don't know about you, Justin,

but it takes me about five to seven minutes before the effect really kicks in. So for five to seven minutes, I'm just listening. And then about seven minutes or so into it, it's like, you're locked in. Yes, dude. So I actually, so Justin, when we first started working with BrainFM, I fell in love with it for the sleep, right? That was like the, I use that consistently.

I mean, my son still uses it to this day. Justin was the one that always used it for focus. And I thought, that's interesting. I'll try that. And I did it a couple of times. This is really cool. What I found also that is really neat to use it is like, okay, so part of why I like audio books better is like, if I'm, if I'm reading a book, I trail off like crazy. You can play focus while you read. Yeah. And that I, which sounds weird that you'd have some sound in the background.

You would think it would be distracting. It's the opposite. It actually helps me focus when I'm reading. This is what it does okay for people listening. So they have figured out how to play certain sounds in your ears that will induce brain wave states. So there are states, so we could look at somebody's brain and by looking at the different brain waves and I don't remember what they're all called but you, but we can identify they're focusing on something, they're creative, this is a meditative state of mind, this is sleep, this is what your brain looks like

when you're sleeping. So when you're doing all those things, when somebody's really focused, they'll look at the brain waves and they can determine this is what a focused brain looks like. Now you can reverse engineer that, play certain sounds, induce the brain waves, so you can actually trigger the brain to become

what you want and then you'll get the effect. So if you want sleep, you want focus, meditation, whatever. It's interesting, I'm sure they could never market this but I'd be curious, cause they have these options for the classical music, add-ons for the focus. You know how all those studies back in the day, they talk about classical music and like babies development and like when mom's pregnant and you know, playing the brain FM

version of that, I think would be interesting. We did. We did that. Oh yeah. 100% We did that. We were to when we were talking about with Max, we used to play that all the time with with when he was in her belly. Yeah, did that all the time. Oh nice. No, I always wonder why we haven't done that like in schools. I know. Actually, they are there. There are studies right now with brain FM and ADD. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're conducting studies I just think like just in general like like if imagine like every kindergarten first grade class just kind of had a playing low in the time or it's like, you know focused time you just put it over the

Speakers yeah all the kids. Oh my god Did you guys hear about was lock in was it one of you guys that told me about this? There was this daycare where the kids were telling their parents, like during nap time, oh, we get the sticker that we put on before we take a nap, and the mom's like, what do you mean a sticker? And the little kid showed them the sticker,

and the mom's like, what? It's a melatonin patch. And so they went back and they found out that these daycare workers were putting melatonin patch on the little kids because then the kids would come home and be doggy and I would flip. Oh my God, I would kill these people for doing that. Wow. They're putting melatonin patches on the little kids to get them to go to sleep.

Dude. What the fuck? What kind of, okay, you, you gotta be able to sue for some course. I mean that's right. And your kids, like, that's how you do it. You're drugging your kids? Of course. Even if it's, yeah. By the way, it's honing. But where do you get, like, I mean, imagine this person who's probably doing that to how many kids, and they're working at a daycare,

so they're probably not loaded. Like, what do you even get out of that? Like, I'd be so angry, because you couldn't even sue enough to make up for how pissed I would be. Oh, I don't know. Again, is that, is anyone gonna, with a lawsuit like that,

are they really gonna make out with anything like that? I would just, I would, you know, I don't know. And is that, is anyone gonna, with a lawsuit like that, are they really gonna make out with anything? I would just, I would, you know, my wife would end up beating someone up, is what would happen. Yeah, I mean, I used to hear some of these shitty parents that would feed their kid a bunch of Benadryl and stuff for flights, just so they would have to put them out.

I thought that was a joke. Do people actually do that? I knew people, yeah, not that they're my friends, I just knew them, and I'm like, ugh. What are you doing? It just disgusted me. What are you doing? Yeah Yeah, melatonin is a hormone that affects other hormones and as an adult take it. It's fine You give it to a kid. It will affect their puberty hormones. It will affect how their development in fact I think if you give it to kids, you can actually stunt their growth if I'm not mistaken

So it's a relatively self-worm out safe hormone, but don't give it to kids, you can actually stunt their growth if I'm not mistaken. So it's a relatively safe hormone, but don't give it to kids. It's still marketed sometimes to kids though, like little gummies for children, which I don't think that's a good idea. Oh, I was just saying, they have like melatonin for kids. They don't, don't give your kids melatonin. I thought I'd seen it before.

No, it's a hormone, it's a hormone, and it influences some of the other hormones, like growth hormone influences. Serotonin and stuff like that too. It'll influence, I believe, estrogen and testosterone some cases Wow yeah dude no don't give your kids that's crazy anyway I go ahead no I was gonna ask Doug to look something up because I brought up to you guys on the walk and I didn't I haven't fact-checked it I haven't seen any more articles could you look up and see did Megan

Kelly and Candace Owens get a $700 million deal with CBS? I saw I brought it up to you guys when we were walking the other day I wouldn't be surprised I haven't seen anything since then so I always want to make sure it wasn't like some silly article that wasn't true. Yeah, it seems like it's not real. Oh, really? From what I can tell, again, you know, not always reliable. There's a lot of things saying it's not true. Oh, there are things saying it's not true. Yeah.

So, I mean, yeah, on X, no, they did not. Okay. It was a rumor. Yeah, so different, different sources. I just started reading the community notes on X. That's such a weird rumor. Why would like, why even start a rumor like that? No, it's just satire. Oh, it is. Yeah. Isn't that funny? Why? Like what's the point of that being satire at this point? You know, I think they're making a joke about it. Now,

making Kelly, that would make sense. Candice Owens. When I heard that, I was like, really? They about it now making Kelly that would make sense Candace Owens when I heard that I was Really they would sign Candace. Yeah, cuz she says some stuff that you're like, oh my god. Yeah, she's pretty yeah. Yeah, so no They don't know along those lines. I trust anything I read I gotta say stop reading not right now So along those lines, I gotta say this so every four years we get a new president and and you know I my views are very I tend to be I my views are very, I tend to be, I'm very consistent with how I tend to think about things, which means that regardless of who's in office, there's gonna be things I disagree with,

and it's so funny to me because for a long time now, people assume I'm like this hardcore conservative, and now is the time for people to think I'm liberal. And that's because there are gonna be things that, well, I'll tell you one of the things that I heard, that I see, that I don't think is a good idea. So I know Trump is saying or talking about how he wants to deport all the illegals

that have come across the border. I think it's the tune of like 15 million, if I'm not mistaken. It's a lot. And people don't realize, in order to do that, in order to deport 15 million people who are not registered amongst us, that would potentially require some kind of a federal police force or something.

How are you going to search and find these people? What is that going to look like? We don't want that. You don't want that. Well, you have to unpack why that is too though, Sal, because it's like, okay, so let's say he gets rid of these crazy other departments in government, because I think your overarching view is more libertarian, where it's like small government.

Small government is what I think is probably something that we all have in common, right? Less government, less government. So the idea that he's going to come in and shrink that in a much way, that's an awesome thing. But if he shrinks that and then grows another side, that is, if he builds a department that is designed just to go deport people,

because deporting 15 million people is gonna take more than 10 people, it's gonna take hundreds, maybe thousands of people, which means a bunch of departments, which still means tax dollars on our part. Which means all we did is rob Peter to pay Paul. In a situation. It's not just the money though.

What I'm afraid of is because we have the you know, 9-eleven brought us This massive surveillance state that never went away World War two brought us to CIA. Yeah, but he's talking about getting rid of all that stuff too fine But then he's gonna create a federal Yeah, what police force right and then when he's gone who inherits that and it won't go away And so let me put it this way. Remember when marijuana, it's still federally illegal, but states legalized it.

You know why states could legalize it? There was no federal police force that really could go in and enforce it, right? That's not what I did there. Oh. No, that's not, I disagree at all. What do you mean? I think, and I don't think we're done seeing that sigh up.

I think the reason why the government going is so they could track and figure everything all out before they get their hands In it sure, but let everybody go run. Let all these clubs run make their millions of dollars Let's just collect some tax dollars. So we have a really good idea Here's my point how much money there they can't go in and really shut it down because they don't have the manpower They don't have the manpower to go into every state and say well If they're gonna deport, if they're really gonna try and deport 15 million people

who are already here amongst us, that's what they're gonna have to do, and we don't want that, that'll never go away. And then whoever, the next crazy person, or wherever, at some point we're gonna get a crazy person in office, so maybe like Trump or whatever, they're gonna have that same force, and they're gonna be able to do things

that your state's gonna say no to but now they have a federal force that'll come in. And not only that but that's gonna be, it's gonna be a political nightmare because I could just, how are they gonna get these people? They're gonna go and knock on doors, kick doors down? Within like months. We talked about this off air.

I would much rather see just stricter policies around like zero tolerance around criminals. Yeah, crime. Yeah, if you're an illegal alien and you get a speeding ticket, your ass is out. You do anything that you're not supposed to do, like just do a zero tolerance, instead of like going hunting for these people.

It's like, there's just no time. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, like bring them forward and allow them to go through the processes of becoming a citizen and like give them a chance while processes of becoming a citizen and like, give them a chance while they're here. It's like sealing off the border now at this point is a necessary thing we have to do. Yeah, that you can do, but to go and find 15 million people, which is the number I keep

saying. That's the tough thing, right? It's like- That would require something. That's the- The medicine is worse for the disease. It would require growing government. And to the point where they're gonna,

cause there's a lot of states and local governments won't go along with it. So they go, oh we'll use local police. No you're not, go to a liberal city and tell the mayor there, hey they're gonna say no, we're not gonna do it. So what are they gonna do at that point? Gavin Newsom's already trying to say he's gonna be insulated from all Trump's policies.

How can you say that and not sound treasonous? It's well, I mean, you know the states have their own power and which is a checks and balances type of deal Which I don't disagree with I think it's protected us more than it's hurt us but if they try to create a new federal force that's gonna go in and And do this and find people I'm telling you nobody nobody's gonna want that. It's not gonna be a good thing Yeah, that's the thing that I would be worried about. That's why it's always good to, yeah, you gotta check the people in power. I mean, that's what it's all about.

You always gotta look out for all these people. And they can use, remember, that force could be used to take away your guns, it could be used to take away other things. Yeah, but in the same week, he came out and said that he was gonna allow people to conceal and carry, dude. I mean, that's like a huge, I mean. I like, yeah. Which, like, that, that, that.

It was a restaurant. There's a lot that he's addressing I like. Yeah, for sure. Because, I mean, that's a a huge that I like which like that was a There's a lot that he's he's addressing I like yeah, because I mean that's a way to counter that right there I just like okay Well, I and so, you know So I'm not trying to be a dictator and control because the two things they would normally do is go after guns and speech And those are two opposite things that he's doing opposite He's trying to people trying to go back to more free speech stuff and more Dystopian future for you.

So 10 years, 15 years from now, we have a federal police force, they used it to get rid of the illegals. You can also now conceal carry, as long as you have a license in one state, it's good in all the states, that's what he said. And then a new government comes forward and they're like, hey, we're gonna actually ban that

and we're gonna get rid of most of your guns. And everybody's like, screw you. And you're like, well, federal police forces will come in and take it because I have control of this federal police force. That's the fear. The fear is we don't want this force that'll never go away. So if they start to create that,

I will be very loud about it. Well yeah, hopefully he gets good advisement. Yeah, yeah. He's got Ron Paul. Hopefully Ron Paul. That's the part that I think more than anything that this go around, I'm excited more about RFK Ron Paul. Yeah, I'm us. Yeah me too. That to me Yeah, I mean to me like hate Trump all you want is Brian

I'm like a standing and trying to defend the dude like But those people and what they've stood for and what they've campaigned on and what they've talked about They wanted to do with government with the medical system like that is like what we need. We need that bad and the fact that he's empowering those people gives me hope at least. RFK knows health better than any other politician I've ever heard. For sure. So you see what he's been posting saying what he wants to go do too so I mean. The only watchdog we've really had. If those guys go in and go do half of what they're saying they're going to do and of course we there's also that part

Right, they have to go do this shit. It's one thing Sell us all free pizza on Friday and then No pizza ever comes. Yeah, so I don't want to like run around in my maga hat and like Like I'm like show me the money show me the money That's what I want right now and but I'm more hopeful than I have been in a long time with the people that he has in power right now Ron Paul is there being said so soon as it said Rob Paul I was happy oh bro Ron Paul Elon Musk a great job

like really winning over yeah the the libertarian independent kind of moderate we'll see people so anyway all right let's give a shout out to our head trainer Kyle Crushing my pump Kyle. He does an excellent job. He's our head coach. We do have some coaches that work for us Who you know training coach people and Kyle heads that department which is gonna continue to grow and he's done it Just a phenomenal job very smart smart, knows his stuff, incredible integrity, incredible integrity and you can find him at MindPump Kyle so go give him a follow. Hey real quick, Paleo Valley makes the best tasting protein powder I've ever had in my entire life. It's their bone broth protein. I typically have chocolate which is amazing they have a new flavor,

salted, caramel. This is incredible. It tastes so good and because it's collagen-based protein, it's super, super easy to digest. It could take large servings of this and have no gut issues whatsoever. Anyway, go check them out. Get yourself 15% off. Go to paleovalley.com forward slash mind pump. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Pierre from Canada. What's up, man. What's happening? Hey man. How can I help you?

How's it going? Good. All right. Good. I'm happy to be back here. I was on a couple of years ago. Always good to see you guys. Uh, it's all right if I do a quick shout out first and a simultaneous

plug for maps programs. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I'll get the air horn out. Do it. Yeah. So just to provide air horn out. Do it. Yeah. So just to provide a little bit of context first.

Uh, so my wrestling name is Castor McPhear. So I've been a professional wrestler on the indie circuit in Canada for the last 20 plus years. Uh, so my gimmick is an alleged actor where my opponent needs to follow the script that I carry to the ring, which is in a duo tang. And my opponent never follows the script, of course. And I refer to my fans as stupid extras. So I'd like to tell all of my stupid extras out there, shout out to them, that not only do they need to follow the script, but if they want to get fit and

healthy, they need to follow the scripts, which are maps programs. Oh, very good. Love it. They're not stupid. No, you guys aren't stupid extras. You guys are. Our stars of this whole production. Awesome.

So what's happening, man. And real quick, Adam, I've got that torn pack kind of like you do. Yep. I suffered that from wrestling last year. So it's great. It's not fake, but it's scripted. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll get into my question.

Thanks. So I'm looking at expanding my home gym with more variety of bands, incorporating bands more into my workouts. Maybe even doing some band only workouts. So currently I have some loop bands and some tube bands that have with handles and I have those in five pound increments from 10 to 30 as well as have a 40, a 50, a 60 and a 100 pound band. How should I cover what I'm missing?

So for example, another question to that is, does combining a 60 pound band with a 20 pound band have the same resistance as an 80 pound band, or should I get the missing increments? I do have a wall mounted bars in my home gym as well as a squat rack so I can loop the bands around them as well as I have connectors to four doors so I can do some throughout my house and I'm not just in my home gym as well as at the office and should I keep the same philosophy as with free weights making sure to keep doing the tank and not going to failure focusing on form

weights, making sure to keep doing the tank, not going to failure, focusing on form, anything else I should pay close attention to when using bands that might be a bit different. Great question. When it comes to the weight ratings on bands, it's an estimate. Okay. Cause you take a 50 pound band, when is it 50 pounds? At what distance or stretch is it 50 pounds, right?

The further I stretch it out, the heavier it gets. So you just got to go, when it comes to bands, you just base it off of feel. So you know a 50 pound band from the same company is going to be harder at the same stretch distance as their 30 pound band. So really just going to base it off feel. As far as like how intense you should train with bands, you know, one of the, the, the positives of bands is that they just don't cause as

much damage to the body. So you could train at a much higher intensity. You could go to failure with bands and you won't suffer from the same, uh, potential recovery issues as you would from free weights or even machines. So bands, you could train much harder. They tend to be recuperative in the sense that if you did like a deload week or month, training just with bands would provide that.

But if you're advanced, if you're advanced with your training, in my opinion, there's two amazing ways that bands can be used. One is travel. You don't have access to equipment. They're very convenient. The second is using them in addition to your free weights, the way power lifters do. Yeah. So if you look at the way power lifters have used, traditionally use bands, they'll attach them to the bottom or the top of a squat to change the resistance curve. And that is, in my opinion, one of the best ways to get stronger, uh, with,

with lifting, especially if you're advanced and it doesn't like people will use chains for, for something similar, but chains just, they just cause, it require more recovery bands. I mean, I could put bands on, on a bar, add a bunch more resistance and it, and it doesn't feel like adding more weight. And it matches, the strength curve is pretty awesome. Like the bottom of the squat is going to be easier than the top of the squat, which incidentally matches where

I'm weaker and where I'm stronger. So I can make a squat challenging, more challenging where I'm stronger and less challenging where I'm weaker. Whereas, you know, when you're squatting with free weights, like you're doing a lot of weight training, you're weaker and where I'm stronger. So I can make a squat challenging, more challenging where I'm stronger and less challenging where I'm weaker. Whereas, you know, when you're squatting with free weights, like you're typically limited by the weakest part of the rep, which would be the bottom for most people. So for someone like you who's been working out for a while, like

this is how I would use bands. I would use it the way power lifters do. And, um, this is just a phenomenal way to add strength. I love doubling up on bands too. And we rarely get to talk about stuff like this because people aren't really on that level in terms of intensity. It's hard to set it up properly, but to add a bit more challenge to your lifts, plus the longevity of the rubber bands, it helps to kind of extend their life in terms of them fraying and falling apart. But yeah, you can go pretty intense with bands as long as you have adequate control and you can perform these exercises appropriately. So I mean, I'm all for it.

Even the lower rep ranges is great with bands. Are we doing this in conjunction with regular traditional strength training or are we trying to do just a band workout? I just want to make sure I have clarity on that. A little bit of both. I wouldn't mind doing an exclusive band thing, but also because I do my workout when I get home from work, but I'd like to sometimes be able to do a bit when days are busier and I don't get home till much later, it'd be nice to do part of my workout in the morning before work. But then the wife and kids are still sleeping at that time because it's pretty early and it would work out at home. And you know, the barbell, you know, doing deadlifts could probably wake up the kids and wife. You don't want to, right?

Yeah. So as a supplemental, sometimes. So I think you would benefit from, I think, I'll have Doug send over maps bands for you. I think you would benefit from running maps bands for a little while as a standalone program. So you get the feel of like how we've programmed bands. And then you can, that's how you would now, OK, today's the day where the kids are sleeping.

I'm not going to do my traditional workout. I'm going to supplement one of those days, but I would run the bands as it's laid out for at least a few weeks. So you get kind of a feel of what it's like and what we're trying to accomplish by training with if we only had bands. And then you can then go like, let's say you're running a maps, anabolic type of protocol. And Wednesday is a foundational day and you kids are sleeping.

And so you're, Oh, I'm'm gonna pull from one of the maps bands programs That most like that mirrors this kind of a workout the most and then and then slide it in there when you can You know one thing I did leave out One other benefit of bands is they're super good for speed training. They're really really good for explosive. Oh, yeah, like Just because of the nature of the band themselves you want to work on Like, um, just because of the nature of the band themselves, you want to work on explosive power, plyometric type stuff and add resistance. Yeah, it's way less jerky.

Bands are superior to, to pretty much any other modality. And are they good to combine with dumbbells too? Like I've seen some exercises where people use a band and a dumbbell and like combine them for either a press or a curl. Yeah. I mean, you can get really cool. You can do some really creative things with bands. For example, okay, let's say I'm doing a dumbbell chest press, right? There's a lot of different ways I can add bands to a dumbbell chest press. One is having the bands pull straight down so it's harder at the top than it is at the bottom. That'd be

more of a traditional way. I could also attach the bands at angles because when I'm doing the press, the action of the chest is abduction, right? Bringing the upper arm closer together. So now I'm pressing up but I'm also resisting them from separating and now I have to squeeze them together and there's so many different ways to use bands. You can get really creative with bands in ways that you can't with other modalities. And really what you're doing is you're manipulating the strength curve, right? If you were doing a traditional barbell press or dumbbell press, as you get close to the top of your press, it's very little chest. Like most of your chest is getting the most of the work in the deep movement. As you get up towards

the top, it's very little chest anymore and now it's like a little bit of tricep extension to finish the rep off. When you have bands that are resisting the whole way, all the way to the end is actually one of the most difficult parts to finish the rep. So you're manipulating the strength curve, so it now becomes like a different exercise by incorporating that. So it's a great way to, you know, novel stimulus.

Totally. If you haven't done that in a long time, to incorporate the bands like that also. But I think for sure, going through a cycle of MAPS bands, the protocol in there so you can see how we program the band exercises and then you can start to intermittently add it into your routine or supplement one of those days on the days where you don't want to wake the kids up or things like that. Okay. And you said I can go more intense with the bands now.

Yes. Yeah. This is where we would where we would say recovery training to failure is okay. More frequency, more, more intensity. It's not going to hit you as hard. That's why the mass bands too. It's, it's pretty much, it's like five, six days a week. Like you could keep training bands pretty, pretty consistently.

Okay. And with that program, does it, does it work well, say if I want to, if I have time to do a bit, a few, a few exercises in the morning before work, for example, take the bands to work, break time, throw it in the door in my office, do some sets. A little trigger session kind of approach, yeah. Absolutely.

Okay, okay, awesome. Thanks guys. You got it brother, man. We'll send that program to you. All right, you guys are great, thanks, I appreciate that. Thanks brother. All right, You guys are great. Thanks. I appreciate that. Thanks, brother. All right.

Take care. You know, the, cause I use bands a lot as a trainer, especially towards the back half of my career. Yeah. And I didn't use it with my clients often the way that we just explained. That was for me and maybe a couple of advanced clients. But for my clients, it was correctional bands for correctional purposes are amazing. Oh yeah. But for my clients, it was correctional bands for correctional purposes are amazing.

Oh yeah. Like if I had a client who would squat and their knee would travel in one direction, I would put some resistance in the direction that I want them to push their knee out so that they'd also strengthen that stability. And so anytime I saw deviations in form, I mean, you should, I mean, you know, for people who aren't

familiar with this, like I would have bands attached to different angles. Yeah. Getting the person to straighten themselves out like dead lifting having it out in front so that they yes exactly yeah the extension you can do cool things like that where it does kind of it coaches you through so you correct your form because totally act that it's in different that you have to you have to pull against the band totally our

next caller is Matt from Massachusetts. Matt, what's happening? What's up, man. How's it going guys? Good. Do you want me to jump in with my question or give you a little bit of a background? Uh, I mean, yeah, go in your question, but we'll ask you questions if we need more context. Okay.

So just kind of a little bit about myself. So 48 year old father for, uh, started listening to you guys about four years ago. I've got to say you guys have kind of changed my whole approach to things. I've really changed my fitness completely. Back in my 20s, I did kind of like a full body split, four days a week. And then later in life, took up up marathoning which led to overuse injuries and I probably did the worst thing I could do. I went from that to CrossFit which was great because it wasn't kind of beating me up the same way marathoning was but because

my fitness kind of got much better doing CrossFit. I kind of jumped back into Marathon and was doing both Marathon and CrossFit, which again not ideal. So at that point I was probably down to about 165 pounds. Not really ideal for anything. Life changes happened, so divorced, everything kind of change your career and everything led me Kind of to you guys. Um, so I might Kind of commute back and forth to work I started listening to your podcast. Uh again kind of At that point, I was still kind of doing my own thing workout wise

uh Turned some other people on to your show One of my friends actually bought anabolic, got me doing it with him. Uh, and right away I noticed a big difference and just to kind of plug it for you guys, anyone who is thinking about getting a program isn't sure if they should get a program once you start a program with one of these math programs, you'll see results. I saw results instantly and having done something with him, it led me right away

to before we even finished the program, I was like, okay, now I'm going to buy performance, I'm going to buy power lift, which was, uh, and just kind of in doing those programs again, just, I wanted to kind of continue to mix it up. So again, went from anabolic to performance to power lift, kind of back to anabolic, back to performance, back to anabolic. And now I'm doing split and I'm in phase three of split. And I wanted to again, just kind of looking for something different to do and with two in split, I noticed the volume goes up significantly.

But surprisingly my body's reacted really well to it. No injuries, no any issues, but going from like a three day work week version of like anabolic to a six day a week program program I thought for sure I would have some struggles but now like my question is I I've kind of made these big changes in life again kind of changed my diet changed my programming and I'm jumping around and now I don't know kind of where to go next do I go from split to like a maps aesthetic, which is kind of what I had kind of planned? Or do I send a little back a little bit and do something similar to like a maps 15 or again change it up and do something kind of in

between like anabolic advance? Symmetry. Yeah I think symmetry would be good. But we got to back up a little bit too. What do you mean by like, explain what you mean by your body or you're responding really well to high volume? What do you mean by, cause you said you didn't get injured, but that's, that's, that, I mean, hopefully right. Not getting injured doesn't necessarily mean it's the right program. It just means you're not going too, too far in one direction. What else have you noticed?

What do you mean that you're, you're responded well? Okay. Um, so just to kind of put it in context. So since I started maps programs, like I said, I was down at about 165 pounds as a marathoner, I'm up to between 200 and 205 pounds now. Um, and a lot of that, again, thanks to your programming, but also diet changes. Uh, muscle wise, I'm definitely leaner than I was. I mean, prior to doing split, strength hasn't gone down at all. And I was kind of concerned with the volume going up. I would

see really hits to my strength. I haven't seen any dips in strength at all. And again, just continue the workout seemed to get easier as I go along. I will say those starting phase three, I had to like check my ego at the door and bring the weight significantly down than what I thought it was going to have to do initially. But once I made that adjustment, again, everything kind of fell into place. So again, just I'm not I'm sleeping well. I'm not tired. I'm not having any issues, which is not, again, having a much higher volume program like split I would kind of run into.

Uh, but that hasn't been the case at all. That's great. That's great. Now, if you continue to typically though, uh, if you continue down the high volume path, you may run into some problems, which is why I said not maps aesthetic. Yeah. Sestetic isn't the best there right now. No, I like symmetry. After symmetry, I'd go low volume like, uh, anabolic or, um, map 15 advanced.

And then you could scale back up, um, because volume is also cumulative, meaning, you know, you're tolerating it well. Now, if you keep going down that path though, then it starts to add up. So you wanna go through periods of sprints when it comes to volume. You don't wanna just constantly be at that high volume phase. But symmetry would be perfect. Based off of all the other programs that you've run,

I think you're gonna get some great gains with symmetry. And it's just the appropriate program at this point for you to kind of balance the body out. And you'll notice some discrepancies and weaknesses with it, which is great. And you'll see great results. That's the perfect program to follow. If you want to test MAPS Aesthetic, I would go to Symmetry 15 and then do Aesthetic. So if you want to see what MAPS Aesthetic is all about and get the best bang for your buck running that program, since that is the highest volume program we have, I would run symmetry first, then Maps 15, and then aesthetic. And that combo right there should

set you up for the most likely for you to be successful through Maps Aesthetic. No, and I was kind of thinking similar to what you said. That's why I was kind of not really sure where to go. If I should really cut it back to like a Maps 15 or kind of find some of that middle ground you could you could go to mass 15 right now too but you'll benefit to doing some unilateral work since you're coming off of a split like that um and anabolic anabolic like you've

run a lot of bilateral stuff so a symmetry program where you're doing unilateral work will be really good. You don't expose any imbalance too so that way you'll be able to kind of reinforce your your joints and strength and stability so you can keep this going for the longevity of it. I know you know we like to just get into the intensity and get to the results but this is you know there's a period that you need to get back and really help kind of strengthen your joints. You'll build you'll build good muscle with symmetry. Oh yeah. Yeah, your body will respond really well. And the last phase you test it with the five by five. So you're going to get to see it expressed in the end of that program. Just think you've been. That's all the benefit. We've

been, you've been like a car, you've been putting a lot of effort into building the horsepower and you've built a lot of horsepower the last year. Now let's reinforce the suspension and the steering and like the chassis. Like that's like symmetry. Think of it like that. But you'll see your body develop from an aesthetic point of view as well. And we have people sending in DEXA scans after following symmetry before and after. And they, they build great muscle, especially in the imbalances. So like, you know, right to left side, you know, right leg has this much lean body mass, left leg has this, then they'll follow symmetry and they'll come back.

And they built both, but the side that was weaker now is caught up to the other side and then it just provides product as your performance goes through the roof. Yeah. Yeah. That'll be the perfect program. Do you have that one? Can we send it to you, Matt? I don't have that.

That would be awesome. You got it, bro. We'll send it to you. Yeah. And my goal is, I mean, I it, bro. We'll send it to you. Yeah. And my goal is, I mean, I'm, as they said, I'm 48 now I'm creeping up on 50. Um, I hope to age like Doug and kind of age backwards. So that's kind of the goal. Uh, and so again, trying to find the right mix of, uh, what programs to run

and kind of how to do it in, keep myself injury free, uh, what programs to run and kind of how to do it in, uh, keep myself injury free, uh, but continue to kind of build strength as I age. Yeah. If you just stay consistent and be smart, uh, and prioritize, you know, sleep and diet and all that. And then at your age, I would also look at, I mean, we're all roughly in the same age group. I would get my hormones tested, just see where you're at.

Cause the next phase would be, you know, if you, if you need any help there, but you're, you're doing a great job. I mean, you're doing really well. You said you're leaner at two Oh five, which is excellent. You're talking about your strength going up, which is great. Uh, you're going to really, really enjoy symmetry. Yeah. Just to kind of put it in perspective.

So going from one 65 to two Oh five, I only gained two inches on my waist. Um, the rest of it was everywhere else. So, uh, again, that was thanks to your programming. That's awesome. I have the opposite problem is Adam though, like me, I just think about doing any kind of like calf raises and my calves explode, but I can't grow my arms at all. It's the straw. So I'm hoping maybe with symmetry,

that'll kind of catch up a little bit. Definitely. Awesome, Matt. We're going to send that over to you, brother. Appreciate it. Thank you, guys. Thanks, my friend. I love those DEXA scans we get from people, too.

I know. Where it shows right to left. It shows the lean mass. And you see, oh my god, you gained five pounds, and it all went to the areas that were not balanced out which I mean from a you know I know we have a program called Maps Aesthetic but from an aesthetic point of view by the way speaking of aesthetics he said he went from 165 to 205 gained two inches on his waist. Now here's the reality

of how he looks. His waist is gonna look smaller, two inches bigger, because he probably added four or five inches around his shoulders and his chest. And that's really what it's all about. Yes, yes. Two inches around your waist when you put on 40 pounds is not a lot. No, no.

If you put 40 pounds on, you're gonna... I mean, his glutes grew, his shoulders grew, his chest grew, his back grew, so proportionally, it looks amazing, I'm sure. Our next caller is Thomas from Illinois. Thomas. What's happening? What's going on Thomas? Hey, how you guys doing? Doing good. Good. Hey, first of all, I want to say thank you for everything you guys do. Maybe you guys don't get this a whole lot, but thanks for validating how I work

out when I was younger, me and my buddy, we started working out when we were teenagers and we were inspired by the west side barbell yeah and everyone made fun of us for like lifting slow and taking our time so when I got into my 20s I was just I thought they were right I thought I was wrong so I started lifting like an asshole and So doing like the stupid lifts and I found you guys like thank you for validating what I've known all along so appreciate you guys for that. Now I can spread the word through other people but I'll get to my question. I have in front of me here I'm writing to you guys to get a better guidance on my intensity in my workout. For context, I am 5'11", 230, which has kind of been the heaviest I've been.

Former college football player. Currently serving the National Guard. Have a family of six, four kids, two adults. I work at Big Box Gym as a head of operations. So on average, I get about 15 to 20,000 steps in a day. I'm currently running MAPS 15 advanced ending phase two this week. I track my food intake with my calories being anywhere from 24 to 2800 a daily. My protein, I'm really trying hard there, average about 160 to 200 grams daily. Recently I've been focusing on other sleep, listening to your guys' podcasts,

understanding the value and power of that. So I used to get anywhere from five and a half to six. Now I'm more in that eight range. I'm trying to get in bed a lot sooner. My goal is to get back down to 15% body fat. I use an in-body scale here at work, but I can't seem to get down to 19%. I know you guys talk about how your body adapts to cardio and activity

with how much activity I'm doing during the day. Is that preventing, um, or has my body adapted and what can I do to overcome the activity I have to do during that time? Yeah, your activity. So think of it this way when it comes to movement, think of like steps is for health and diet for leanness. Okay, now as far as what you're doing, I don't think it's getting in the way, especially if you've been doing this for a while, 15 to 20,000 steps. I don't think this is part of your job, right? You walk around the gym. Yeah, so you're not like trucking, you're just moving.

I don't think this is a problem. I mean, something jumps out to me right away. Protein. Yep. Here's the thing about protein that's so, first of all, 160 is really low for you. 200 is not bad. It's still not even optimal.

I would be trying to push. 220. Yeah, 220 would be where I'd want to target. Every day. And here and that's the thing that people don't understand is that like you know we store carbs and fat your body stores it for later on for fuel. Protein doesn't work that way so it's not like an average of your week. So let's say you have like a really good protein day of 240 and then you run back the next day and you do 160. You don't get to take the average of the two and say oh I average this. It's if you miss, you missed and you're going backwards.

Your body for your size has, I mean, your body fat percentage, I'm guessing if it's around 19. So he's probably sitting at 180, 170 pounds of muscle, give or take, roughly, maybe around there. Right? So every day that you don't hit beyond 170 in your protein intake We're going backwards in muscle So what you might have what might be happening for you is you're lifting weights and you're hitting protein intake

Consistently enough to kind of maintain but you're having a hard time breaking through and making progress one of the biggest things that will help you in this pursuit is Consistently hitting those higher protein intake numbers. That's going to be a big deal. Thomas, when they do studies on this, you know, same calories and everything, one high protein and one not as high, the high protein group builds more muscle and lose more and burns more fat. So if you just change nothing else and just hit 220 grams of protein consistently every single day and your calories stayed the same, you would see yourself probably build some muscle and

lose some body fat to the tune of probably 3% or so just from doing that alone. And then from there, and then from there it's just the process of you know cutting your calories a little bit or whatever, but I would just keep it there and be consistent and you'll probably see yourself not at a nice slow pace get where you want. Especially like your your lean body mass your 190 pounds of lean body mass ex college football player you've probably got really good muscle building genetics you just got to be consistent with the diet yeah and the beauty of the beauty of consistently hitting the protein and

taking feeding that muscle as you build your your metabolism is going to speed up. So you're- It'll start to get leaner. So you'll naturally become in a cut. All of a sudden, say 2,800 was like what maintained your weight, but now you actually start building muscle because you're hitting that protein intake. Now your new maintenance is 3,000 calories. So when you have days where you only hit 2,500 calories, you're going to lean out.

So just you hitting that consistently and kind of focusing on, but you know, a lot of this stuff that we're talking to in your size, have you watched any of the series I'm doing on YouTube right now? Actually, yeah, I just started that the other day. Okay, good, watch that. Cause I communicate a lot of this stuff and that's, yeah, and I actually just talked about,

so you know what just happened to me, and we flew out to Florida for four or five days. And during that time, I got one little workout in. It was really hard for me to know exactly where my calorie intake was. I probably missed protein a couple days. And I explained why even just four days of that is so detrimental to my progress. Yeah, I didn't get fat. Yeah, I didn't lose 10 pounds of muscle.

But I certainly took a step back and probably canceled out all the great work I did the week before, which equates to a plateau. And this happens to people all the time, even when they're not traveling. And I don't think they realize how important it is to be sending that signal to build muscle, to make sure I'm pairing that with always hitting protein intake so that I'm always building that muscle and ramping that metabolism up. So continue to watch that. You'll be back. Thomas, you're giving us a range of 24 to 2,800 calories,

160 to 200 grams of protein. Are you really tracking or is this an estimate? So for breakfast and dinner, I typically have the exact same meal. So breakfast, I have about a 70 gram protein breakfast. Listening to you guys, I try to start out the day really strong. The thing that kills me,

I'm trying to work on it the last week or so, being in the position I'm listening to you guys. I try to start out the day really strong the thing that kills me I'm trying to work on it the last week or so Being in the position I'm in I'm constantly busy. So lunch has always been a struggle Lately, I've been able to bring some steak home or steak to work and eat but at night I usually eat either chicken thighs or chicken breasts Along with some other maybe turkey that my fiance made Stuff like that. So I know what I'm getting on the bookends I I know for myself is the middle of the day that

Kills me and trying to either break down those meals and two little meals as you guys are working the fitness space You know, I'm no longer a personal trainer on the offside It's hectic. Yeah don't get full time downtime. So, I'm competing whether to break down the meals or... Yeah, bring your food with you. It's easier. I mean, when I worked in gyms, it was easier. When I brought my food, I could, 10 minutes I could eat a small meal. So I would just eat, you know, every few hours and it made it really easy for me to bring it. And that's the only really way to know, because eating out and all that stuff, especially if you're in a rush, then you get behind the eight ball. And this is when I hear about your background, your genetics, probably

where you're at, calorie, that you've got good programming. The missing piece here is going to be just purely consistency around the diet. And by diet, I mean, it's because I don't say it mean you're eating bad food. It's missing that protein consistently. You got it. You got to do that because what's probably happening is every time you take, you know, three steps forward, you take two back. And so you're kind of feeling like you're barely moving because you're having these days where you're missing. And so putting your focus around, okay, I need to figure out a way to be consistent. This is also too where shakes do make sense. Like you always hear us promote Whole Foods and I'm

always gonna push you in the direction of Whole Foods first, but the reality is you know, you have people that have jobs like this and hey maybe that you know a shake or two in the middle of the day is just what it's gonna take to make sure you're hitting that optimal protein intake all the time. I think that is going to make the biggest difference where you're currently at. Yeah, what big box company do you work for by the way? I work for Lifetime. Oh, nice.

Cool. Nice, great company. Yeah, so we're out in the Chicagoland. So next time you're out here, let me know. We got a rooftop pool. We got it all over here, which is nice. Yeah, great company. But yeah, we got 10 pools that rock my world. I do have one more question when it comes to diet.

For breakfast, I do have, I eat chicken sausages. Now, would you classify that as processed or you would? Yeah. Yeah. I mean there's like there's a range of sausage, you know, I mean it is processed in the meat category. It would be considered processed. I mean, it is processed in the meat category, it would be considered processed, but you could go less or more processed depending on the company and what kind of, like butcher box sausages are some of the best ones that I found.

Yeah, they're some of the best ones that I found, but it's still processed meat in that category. It's also not the end of the world though. This is not, like this is not the big rock here. Like I'm going to get in, I'm going to get picky about your processed food later after you hit your protein take consistently. Like, so it's like, let's solve that. It's not like a hot dog. Let me put it that way. Yeah. It's not that bad.

That's what I was worried about. I hear you guys talk about processed food. And I'm like, Oh no, is this, am I wrong for, cause like two of those, what they say is, you know, two of those is this, am I wrong for, cause like two of those, what they say is, you know, two of those is about 32 grams of protein, give or take, you know, 10%. So I eat two of those every morning. I'm thinking, oh no, is this something I'm missing out on? No, it's not, listen, it's not a horrible choice.

It's not the best choice. I mean, I'd rather see you take some of the carrot from your wife's turkey or chicken from the night before, mix it with some eggs. I mean, I'd rather see you take some of the carrot from your wife's turkey or chicken from the night before. Mix it with some eggs. I mean, I'd love to see that. That would be the most ideal thing is cooking bigger bulk. And so you always have leftover in the morning and you throw two or three eggs on top of four

to six ounces of chicken, turkey or beef. And that's a great, that's a better, much better option. But that ain't like turkey sausage. I mean, you know, chicken sausage is not what's you know keeping you at 19% body fat. It's consistently hitting that protein and taking the middle of day and it sounds like the amount of activity you're doing, the size you already are, lean body mass wise, you need that and that's what's kind of keeping you stuck there is you need to give, I mean you could literally, Thomas you're a big enough dude, you could get away with eating 250

grams of protein. Like easily, like easily your body could handle and would use that. Like you being at 160 and 200 on a good day is where we're missing right there for sure. That's the big rock. Hit that first then we can nitpick the the types of food. And then also you have a bunch of trainers that work there Yeah, how many trainers you got? I think I think I got 31 now. Okay, so I work here You're you got operations you need to get over there and get all of them to listen to the free webinar that Sal and I Are doing on the 12th, so they should all be listening to that. Look I'm trying I'm trying But I do want to say one thing I heard a a listener a while ago talk about the army and their

PT test. If you guys come out with that, I'll definitely buy it because I'm a company commander right now and we have to go through all the PT stuff and I have to counsel people. I'm using what you guys teach me to try to coach them, but if there's a program, I definitely run it in my unit. Email us the format. Email exactly what you have to accomplish, and then we can reverse engineer it and write a good program for it. That's what we need. We need someone who's got first-hand experience.

Tell us exactly what you need to be proficient in, and then we can write the programming. All right, consider it done. Cool. Thank you guys, I appreciate your time. All right, man, take it easy. All right, see ya. Yeah, right away when I see ranges,

I eat from here to here, here to here, you're not tracking, so you really don't know. And I always lean towards, you're probably hitting the lower of those. You know what I'm saying? Like, especially if you're only, dude, you're 235, he's not a little boy. He's a big dude, right?

He's a big, and ex-football, you can see by his neck, like, he's a solid dude, right? So you know, and if he's saying big dude, right? He's a big X football. You can see by his neck. Like he's a solid, he's a solid dude, right? So, you know, and if he's saying once he's 200 and he's, he's, and he's really only tracking the bookends, which is the breakfast. And he already started with 30 grams of protein for breakfast. Yeah. You're going to hit 200. No. And I have to have 50 plus grams of protein for breakfast. Otherwise I'm going to miss.

And that right there, like before he gets into like processed food and, and, and supplements or all these, it's like, dude, you just do that. And that will solve a lot of this plateau that he's in right now. Our next caller is Michelle from Ohio. Hi, Michelle. How are you doing, Michelle? Hello.

Hello. First of all, thank you so much. This is crazy. When I sent in the email, I was barely expecting a response, much less the chance to get to talk to you guys. So this is really exciting and thank you. Thank you. How can we help you? So I, uh, I'm listening to your podcast now, um, uh, not for very long.

Discovered you a few months ago, uh, when looking for some, um, just an insight on perimenopause and how it impacts training and all that. So my question is about coming from a former history of really a lot of cardio training. I was a long distance endurance triathlete and then kind of how, now that I have woken up to the effects that that has on metabolism, how that's impacting me today. So a little bit of background, I spent most of my life pretty morbidly obese. I

was about 318 pounds and then had bariatric surgery in 2013. Through that I lost at my lowest weight, I had lost a total of 150 pounds. Gained a little bit of that back which I'll get to, but through that and kind of that new lifestyle I discovered my love for triathlon. And so I spent about seven or eight years doing long course distance racing. So training, doing steady state cardio anywhere from two to six hours a day. I did a 160 mile bike ride across the state of Indiana. So all things cardio very little weight training unless it was off season. And then I tried to skip that as much as possible. So did that and then life happened and I got to sort of middle age and I was mentally and physically just burned out from the triathlon.

And so I just walked away. I was in the process of training for my third Ironman and three weeks out, I just couldn't do it anymore. I was hating every minute. And so I stepped away from that. And pretty rapidly, because I went from that serious calorie deficit and I was always eating super low carb and training all day long, to really just walking and trying to move, I gained about 30 pounds in the course of

three months. And that wasn't even eating crazy amounts of high fatty foods or anything. I was still pretty healthy, but just that rapid drop in activity. So pulled myself together realize like this is not the road that I want to go back down ever again. I need to make some changes. Um, perimenopause hit me like a full on truck all of a sudden as well. Um, so I started searching for answers. So I started hormone replacement therapy and started reading about the benefits of lifting

weights and how cardio can almost, you know, have a negative impact, discovered your podcast and all the advice. So all that my question is for about the past 10 weeks, I've been following a strength training program. I've been lifting heavy four to five days a week, splitting that with one full body workout and then the other days split between upper and lower. I spend active rest days riding my bike because I enjoy it, doing some easy running. But over the past 10 weeks, I've had zero results, not a single pound lost on the scale, no change in body fat percentage. I measured inches, no change whatsoever. So my question for you guys is knowing that I'm coming from this place of, you know, probably

a pretty slow metabolism with all that cardio calorie deficit. Do I stay the course, you know, doing what I'm doing and hope that kind of my metabolism comes back up? I am still eating at a calorie deficit, getting around 16 to 1700 calories a day, minimum of 120 grams of protein. I recently have tried to up that to 140, finding that a little bit hard with the calorie range that I'm in,

but still kind of making it happen. So do I stay the course, keep doing what I'm doing, or is there something else that I can change to maybe speed up my metabolism and reverse some of the damage that I might have done? Yeah, we need a reverse diet. And then, um, I'd love to send you one of our programs to follow. Although that one doesn't sound bad.

Um, but we need a reverse diet. That's where we're at right now. So Michelle, we have. All right. Let me ask you a question. Do you want to get out of this cycle that you've been in for as long as you have been? Desperately. Yes. I don't ever remember a day in my life where I was not on a diet. Okay So it's gonna take some recovery and some work. Okay, so we got it. So number one that mentality

That you're in where you're beating yourself up because you're still beating yourself up You're not beating yourself up as much as you did before but you're still beating yourself up. You're measuring yourself daily You're counting your calories. You're working out strength training heavy four or five days a week. There's a bootcamp class. It looks like you said on your off day or a two hour hike. Oh, I didn't see that. Yeah. We, we, we got to, we, there's a, there's a, there's some recovery that needs to

happen and it's going to take a little while. And that means there's going to be a while of not seeing big changes on the scale, but I'm also going to tell you that you keep doing what you're doing. You're also not going to see big changes on the scale, but I'm also gonna tell you that you keep doing what you're doing, you're also not gonna see big changes on the scale, and you're just gonna stay where you're at for even longer until your body rebels even more, which is already kind of what happened. You already got that rebel signal from your body

which felt like you hit a wall, and now you're supplementing it with hormones, which is fine, but that's just gonna extend the process if we don't reverse course. You need to go through a long season of recovery. So what does that look like? Well it starts with the mentality of taking care of yourself and not hating yourself anymore. You need to stop punishing yourself with your workouts.

And you need to stop looking at food as either a restriction or as an escape. So in other words, you're going to need to feed your body like you're taking care of yourself and you need to look at your workouts as a way of caring for yourself. It's not four or five days of strength training. It's probably two days a week of strength training and it's walking on the other days. I'm not talking three hour hikes. I'm talking like you're walking twice a day for 30 minutes and then maybe incorporating some mindfulness like you're walking twice a day for 30 minutes and then maybe incorporating some mindfulness in all of that and give and then and then a slow reverse diet a nice easy slow reverse diet where we speed up your metabolism over the course

of about a year now I can we can oftentimes speed up someone's metabolism in a shorter period of time but coming from from where you came from, in my experience I've worked with people who've come from gastric bypass, like the whole deal. I had a few clients that were they're almost identical to what you did where they went gastric bypass then they of course they're attracted to the most damaging beat myself up form of exercise which is grueling long steady state run cycle swim I mean you did an Iron Man, you went the whole nine. It's going to take a good year of backing up,

allowing your body to recover, letting your body believe it's okay, like things are okay. We're not going to go back to beating ourselves up and slowly speeding metabolism up. That's two days a week of strength training. I can send you a program. I don't want you to follow your a program. I don't want you to follow your own program. I don't want you to follow programming you're going to find from fitness influencers. Most of them are idiots. Follow one of ours. Slow down. Let yourself get stronger. All I want you to pay attention to for the next year is can I maintain kind of where I'm at? Can I make myself feel better? Can I treat myself well? And can I get stronger? I want to see you significantly stronger at the end of the year than at the beginning and that's

how we know we're on the right track. And then slowly increase your calories to the tune of 50 to 100 calories each week. If you start to notice big changes in the scale then pause where you're at. Let it sit there for a little bit. Bump it up another hundred and I'd like to see you in the mid 2000s with your calories. I'd like to see you in a place where you're eating 24, 2500 calories, and you're not doing crazy workouts, and you're not gaining weight.

Then when we're there, and we're there for a little while, okay, now we're getting in a healthy place, then we can start to figure out how to reverse. But you've got like a road of recovery ahead of you, and again, I'm gonna sell this to you. If you don't do this, the signals that your body's telling you're just gonna get louder and let me know it's I'll give it really blunt and hard that was that that was

like straightforward everything there's some really positive things that you that you will have an advantage of your athletic background having that that the mental discipline and fortitude isitude can be a strength of ours if we use it appropriately. And what I mean by that, it's not the way you approach lifting and getting after it or training really hard. It's that you probably are a dialed person and you're very methodical and you probably track diligently.

Those are all positive things that we can use during this process. But when people hear things like strength training is the way to go and it's super beneficial, you also have to feed and recover appropriately for strength training. Otherwise, it turns into just another form of cardio. And so the way it's being used right now at a low calorie with that many days a week, you're actually just doing another form of cardio. I know that sounds kind of weird because you're lifting weights, but when you're lifting weights that often, that frequently, that intense, when you're that low of calorie, the body isn't getting to recover and adapt and

build muscle, which is the real benefits from strength training. In order to do that, it has the, have to have the proper amount of intensity, the proper amount of frequency, the proper, healing, the proper amount of nutrition to then reap all the beautiful benefits of that. Now, maybe in the future we get to train this much. Like once we've earned the right to do four or five days a week of strength training, when the body is getting ample amount of rest, ample amount of calories, but where you're currently at, the reason why Sal is making you come all the way back to two days is we got to get there. We're not there yet.

And right now, doing that right now is actually working against you. And it's hard to get somebody who has trained so hard for so long to switch that, because I know that's probably going to be the most hardest part of this whole thing is, wait a second, you're telling me I'm only going to lift weights twice a week? That's not very much, but that's okay. Go for walks. You know, I'm not going to tell you not to move. Like go for a walk, listen to the podcast, do other things, work internally, do some yoga, do mobility work. That's all fine. Movement, like low intensity movement is a very good thing for us right now, but all you need is about two days of full body training and that's

a loud enough muscle building signal if we feed the body appropriately calories and protein wise. You'll get stronger Michelle. You'll get stronger pretty consistently. That's what I want you to pay attention to. If you're getting stronger, it's working. And you will on a weekly basis, almost weekly basis, see your strength go up and then you'll know you're moving in the right direction. And if we build muscle, we'll build the metabolism. There's the right dose, and that's really what we're trying to get at in terms of your body

actually moving forward. Otherwise, the more we add, we're just gonna have to heal from that, and it's detracting us from actually fully moving forward and adapting towards the stimulus. So the recovery is really where you're building everything. Yeah, it's not, there's a right dose for your body to adapt and change and progress,

and then there's what you can tolerate. What you can tolerate is not the right dose. What you can tolerate is just what you can heal from, but it's not what you can adapt to. Michelle, would you be open to working with a coach to have somebody coach you on a somewhat regular basis? Yeah, yeah.

I had a coach all through my time as a triathlete. And then when I started weightlifting recently, I was doing kind of a semi-private coaching thing, like three people to one coach scenario. I won't go into that. It didn't really work out. And then I started doing a different plan. But yes, I'm very coachable. So I'm gonna do two things here.

I'm gonna put you in our forum if you're not in there already and I want you to periodically go in there and tag us so we can support you because this is gonna be a tough process. Not because the work is tough. You've done way harder workouts than what we're recommending. Yeah, it's a shift. The psychological aspects can be tough, okay? It's gonna, it'll pop up every month or so. So you post on the forum tag us hey I'm struggling hey and I feel like I can do more hey this whatever and we'll get in there we'll help you out and then I'm gonna refer to you and we haven't opened this to the public and everybody listening right now it's not open to the

public yet but I'm gonna send you some referrals for coaches that work under us these are coaches that I trust and I know they're really good and so I'll send you some names and then you can talk to them and then if you want you can work with them but I'm gonna put you in the forum for free and then I'm gonna send you MAPS Anabolic. That's the program I want you to follow. It's two days a week strength training. I think that's the appropriate program and if you really get on that you'll get stronger weekly and if you're getting stronger you know your metabolism is moving in the right direction. That's the best sign. I also want to commend you for

getting the hormones handled and getting on the HRT because that's going to be a huge benefit to us too. That's gonna be that. The fact because that's a whole another monster that we normally have to overcome if somebody is coming from your place is man you could be doing all the right things programming and nutritionally and if your hormones are out of whack you're not gonna see results either. So at least you are getting monitor checked and we're getting that balance. So now, and that being optimal for us is huge.

If now we just give the appropriate dose of training with the right nutrients and recovery, you will see strength train, you will build muscle, you will build a metabolism and we will come out of this. But it will, the psychological part will be the hardest thing. And let, please, we're setting you up for free on the program, setting you up for free inside the form, take advantage, take advantage of it.

Use us, let us help you through this process because it absolutely will be life-changing when we get ahold of this. Yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate that. You know, I think it, it really resonated with me when you said that I need to earn the right to come back to that, because it's not, you know, I have done plenty of beating myself up over my life, over my weight and my, my health and things like that. But I truly do enjoy working out. That's how I

got in the long course for Athlon is because I loved it. I loved going for those long runs. And so it's, I don't always approach it as a place of punishment, but I do recognize that I've done damage to my body and now I need to heal so that I can get back to a place. Excellent. That a girl. That a girl. Excellent. Love it.

Yes. Love it. We got to earn it. And you will. We'll get back to that place. I promise you, but we got to earn it first. Awesome. Thank you so much, guys.

I appreciate the insight and the resources and the help. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for calling. Thanks, Michelle. We're doing great. All right. Thanks. Bye, guys. I appreciate the insight and the resources and the help. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for calling. Thanks for doing great. Thanks. Bye guys. Was I too harsh? You were pretty hard. You know what? You know what's a challenge? It's normally me who's that. Well you know what's tough is that she's not my client. I can't work with her in a week. Well we don't have time. You have a short concise amount of time. What the audience doesn't. I just to give you the answer. Yeah. Which is not how I would train someone.

You know it's this is an interesting short conversation not to go off on a tangent here but you know the audience doesn't know this but we're we're coaching trainers some trainers privately and they get to watch us coach the GLP-1 people and one of the things that's been a current reoccurrence in the conversation is us talking about how we're very grace-based, we're very sympathetic and we are patient with how we tell people stuff. In this situation, we only have 10 minutes. And so you don't get to see the real art of our coaching. It gets to the heart of it.

Yeah. If she was seeing me every week, I probably would have got to there over the course of weeks of being sensitive. Here, we don't have the time. So it's like, would have got to there over the course of weeks of sensitive. Here, we don't have the time. So it's like, we just gotta be blunt and direct, give it to it. And some people that's, they're gonna, they're gonna hear that and they're gonna revolt and go the other way. Fuck those guys. Some people accept it and take it the advice and then hopefully, but we don't have time. We don't have time to be the great coaches that.

But if she look at, you know, here's the thing too, for people watching, like she's in a position because of what she's done, if she doesn't take a season of healing and recovery and changing her mentality and allowing her body to adjust, she's not gonna move anywhere, and if anything, she'll start to go backwards and backwards and backwards. So there is no other option.

The reason why I'm saying that is sometimes people feel like it's a trade. Oh, I'm gonna do this year of recovery and I'm gonna sacrifice a year of progress. That year of progress doesn't exist right now. It's just not gonna happen. Regardless you have to, you have to now start allowing your body to heal and move in the right direction. Otherwise not only you're gonna not progress but here's what's gonna happen. Even with the hormones her body's signals are getting louder and louder

and louder and she's gonna be stuck in a really, really bad place. Well, and to the point that you were kind of making about the hormones, it could actually even be, so it could be a massive bonus for us or it could be a detriment. It's a bonus because she's got her hormones being monitored and they're optimized.

The detriment is that those signals that were already getting really loud get blunted because now you're getting down further down the wrong path and it revolts even more so as long as she takes heed to the advice and we do this she absolutely can and I also want to make the point that I made to her to the audience that's listening that may be in a similar boat all the stuff that you've heard about strength training and how amazing and beneficial is it only becomes that if you do it properly. And properly is different for every individual.

So it's not as simple as, oh, my girlfriend does this, therefore I do this. It's understanding where you are metabolically, how you are recovering, how many calories and protein you're intaking. And if you're not giving the body what it needs, then it turns into more cardio, just movement, high calorie burning movement and this loud signal to build muscle. But none of those, you don't get all the other benefits because the body's not recovering, it's not being fed properly. And so therefore that balance between the two is so paramount to success. And again, to trainers and coaches who are listening, uh, it is very common for people to go from

gastric bypass to abusive exercise, uh, approaches as well. That is actually quite common, uh, because you go from one, you know, dysfunctional relationship, which would maybe with food, to another one with exercise. And what makes it challenging is they will convince themselves and you, but I love it.

I love beating myself up. I love doing the whatever. And look, like clockwork, you take someone down the right path and afterwards they look back and they go, oh, this is different. I definitely, this wasn't what I thought. And even if they do, so even if I have somebody that truly does, because she looks like she's got an athletic background that truly loves to do it, I always tell them like, yeah, but imagine how much more you would love it when it's giving you the results. You think you love it right now, imagine how much you love it when you actually get

the return you're supposed to get on the amount of time and effort you're investing, because that much work, that's a lot of work. You can build an amazing physique with that much effort towards the gym so long as we directed properly. That's right and if long we're doing everything else with it. That's right look if you like the show come find us on Instagram Justin is at mind pump Justin I'm at mind pump to Stefano and Adam's at mind pump Adam.

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