Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2475: Calling Out the Fakes in Fitness With Goob

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we brought Goob on the show.

This guy's on the internet calling out all the fake people in the fitness industry Photoshop all the fake people in the fitness industry. Photoshop people, people with fake reports, calls out pedophiles. Anyway, interesting individual and we found him again on Instagram. We thought it'd be fun to be on the show. By the way, warning, there's a lot of F bombs and profanity in this episode but it is quite entertaining so if you're into this kind of stuff we think you'll enjoy it. Anyway this episode is brought to you by a sponsor PRX Performance. This is home gym equipment that is as good or better than stuff

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Welcome to the show, John. Welcome to the show. That's usually what you say, right? Welcome to the show. OK, where did that start? How'd you get your nickname, by the way? Let's start there. It's so stupid. Do you know did that start? Where, where? How'd you get your nickname by the way? Let's start there. Uh, it's so stupid.

You know what Reddit is? Yeah. Yeah. So I posted on, I used to post on Reddit and the Reddit bodybuilding subreddit when I was competing and I, it was like, nobody knew who I was. My username had nothing to do with goo. It was like John something. And I posted a physique update cause I was competing and tracking my progress.

And my caption for it was please don't mind my goober face. I just woke up cause like it was like a front double bicep and I was like, and like three people saw it. And then the next day, for whatever reason, people were like, I left a comment somewhere and they're like, Hey, yeah, whatever goop. No, what the fuck is it? And it just kept happening. And then there was a confusion on the Reddit because my name was John, and then there was a guy named Goob that people knew about. So I just changed my username

because I thought it was two different people. And I was like, no, it's me. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. So tell me then, how does this, okay, you've competed. You've also done powerlifting too, haven't you? You just strength train really heavy. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, okay. I thought you actually did a power lifting. No, I didn't even know it was a thing. Because I knew what bodybuilding was because I went to a gym that had a bunch of bodybuilders in it. Yeah. And I was like, cool. And I really should have done power lifting because I'm like, quite better at that.

Well, how far did you do the bodybuilding? How long did you do that for? I competed four years while I was in law school, like every year, and then the year after that. And I mean, I would win my show, but like I sucked. Like I couldn't go to like a big show and win. Like I couldn't go to nationals. Like I knew that I sucked, but it's like beating other people that suck a little more than you.

It's like, that doesn't make you great. What was your- I went to the Krispy Kreme classic, like I was number one. Well, take us back then to how this all, and you have a law degree, which I had no idea. So let's take, take us back a little bit. Let's start with how you got to what you're doing now. So you were in law school, were you working out before that?

Was strength training and fitness a thing for you as a kid? How did that all start? I was like a gamer for a really long time. And I woke up, I was like 20, and I just looked in the mirror and I was like, wow, I suck. And I just went to the gym that day. And that was the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. Did you fall in love with it right away? It was awesome, man. It was,

I mean it was cool. I just, you know, like how, how everybody starts you're like, I'll get on the treadmill. And you're like, what's over there? What are the weights? And I accidentally joined this gym that was like full of bodybuilders. So the first gym I ever joined was just like, which is a blessing. It was cool. How old were you? You said 20? Yeah, it was like 20, 21. Oh, good deal. Any idea, you know what you're doing? Like how do you, I mean, uh,

imagine a lawyer guy like you do research before you went into it or just blindly brought in there. It was just your own initiative. It wasn't your buddies. It was, it was Mr. Mark Ripto, honestly. Yeah. But the, but the start and strength drink the milk, you know. That's actually, that's the incredible place to start. That's the best place to start. Yeah, yeah. You got lucky, he's starting there, yeah.

There's so much crap that's out there, and people, when they look at starting strength, like, oh, this is so basic. That's like one of the best programs. It's one of the best programs that's out there. And like, you know, Go Mad, a gallon of milk a day. I made it, I wrote a book, making of it once I called 35 eggs a day, which you say like there's so much stupid shit out there.

Yeah. Like I got into strength training and then like I was online posting about it, like competing and stuff and people would always be like, what do you do? How do you, what's your diet? What do you eat? And I would always say, Oh, I eat 35 eggs a day just cause I thought it was funny. Like, it was just a joke and people started taking it seriously and my social media started to grow and people would like Snapchat me or like DM me like, dude, I'm like on my 13th egg today. Like, I don't know how you do this.

And it'd have to be like, fucking stop. Like I'm joking. People were defending it like a dissertation. They're like, well, I'm looking at how much protein and fat. And if you did this every single day, it would only cost this much money. And so it got out of hand. All these people were trying this stupid not real diet, and so I wrote a book called 35 Eggs a Day,

and it was saying, it was basically admitting that I was lying and that I was just messing with you and that I'm a nobody online and you believed me, so what are all these other people that are way, way, way more influential telling you that it's bullshit? And at the end of the book, I just give a basic, this is the basic bullshit that I do that you should probably do too.

Like go buy a good kitchen knife and cutting board. How about some fucking Tupperware? I don't know. Go grocery shop. So it had to be like the spark where you saw like, Oh wow, look how easy this is to manipulate people. Yeah. It was, I was like, wow. Cause I was, I had a couple hundred followers on Instagram and like people knew me on the Reddit, the Reddit bodybuilding thing. And they were changing. These motherfuckers were going to the grocery store and buying dozens of eggs. Added, think about that.

And it's like, why 35? Why not 36? What do you do with the extra egg? Answer these questions for me, sir. Yeah. It was really stupid. So was it, so this was the beginning of you seeing, cause what's interesting about the muscle building

space, especially that hardcore space online, is if you give accurate, basic information, nobody cares. It's not sexy. Not only is it not sexy, but maybe you're lying, you're not telling us the truth. But if you tell me something crazy and outlandish within the realm of what they would consider, you know, like, oh, that makes sense, so it has to be with protein or something in a ball. Maybe red meat. Eggs get you, Jack.

They must be. Yeah. So then people kind of take a serious, was this the beginning of you kind of looking into the space and going, oh, this is crazy? Yeah. Well, I got smacked with like this huge, you know, people believe your bullshit.

And I think if I was an evil person, I could have been like Fuck yeah, here's exactly what I do, but instead I was like let me write this stupid book throw it on Amazon Which is very easy to get published by the way They do it for you print it for you and ship it out to people and this stupid and then like they're reading the book Thinking like oh, let's see I guess I explained to them just a little bit But you know the all let me see what the diets about and fuck And it's like, fuck, he was lying. All right. Well, here's some basic shit. Anyway. Did you sell a lot of them? How many books did you sell? A lot, a lot. It was really, yeah. Oh my God.

Yeah. More than a thousand. Yeah. More than a thousand. It was. Holy shit, bro. You sold more than a thousand of a bullshit book like that. I made it. The ebook was like four bucks and then you could get it printed for like $14 or something. And I didn't have to do anything because Amazon would just like print it. Yeah. And there was a lot out there. There was a lot. It still was good Amazon refuse. Alas that I checked. Okay. So explain that. How do you basically tongue in cheek tell people you're eating 35 eggs? Why don't you people follow it. Then you kind of feel like an asshole and you go, okay, let me expose myself, write a book,

and then charge you to read this book. And then I read the book and I see I was being lied to the whole time. And I give you a good review. Does it make sense to me? Nobody was mad. What? I would be pissed.

Hold on, did you sell more like success stories in there? 35 eggs a day. There's 55 readings on it. Four and a half stars. Wow. Four and a half stars. That's pretty good. Hold on a second. Did you, okay, you sold more than a thousand of these? Yeah. You sold more than 5,000 of them?

I don't know. I had it on, there was an ebook platform also and it was on. That's a thousand, bro. That's a lot. Well, I'm already, I'm just tripping right now. Yeah, I know. So you actually made some money. Yeah. This was 2007, 2016. I was in law school at the time and I didn't want to do my finals.

This is what you do. And so I wrote this book because I'm fucked in the head. And I was like, I'll write a book. Like I did not want to study for finals because it was December 6th. I remember my birthday this year. I had to take a final on my birthday.

And so I was like, fuck, I don't want to do that. So I wrote this stupid book. Wow, and so now at this point, are you at all thinking, I'm going to work in this industry? Or are you like, well, that was a fluke, that was weird, let me just keep going to law school, because I'll be a lawyer. I was insanely poor during this,

and I was definitely not thinking that anybody would buy it. And I did it as a procrastination thing. And as soon as I dropped it, I was like, oh my God would buy it and I did it as a procrastination thing and as soon as I dropped it I was like, oh my God. Like a ton of people bought it. And then, I mean it wasn't for like six more years that I started like really leaning into any social media, anything. This happened and I was like, that was cool.

So that was a spark. And then from this point, you're just going to school now. You're just going to school and working out on your own. Yeah. And when are you starting to fall in love with working out? Is it right around this time? Oh, Ben, I was deep. I was deep at that point. What were the things about it that you loved the most, that you fell in love with,

just that you could change your body, that it was something that was kind of growth-minded, and this is what I can do? It's just, I don't know, it's like that consistent, it's like Netflix, you know, like some people they go and they're watching TV. You just compared lifting weights to Netflix? It's literally Netflix. Because it's, I don't know, some people they see it as like, oh fuck, I have to go work out. But it's like an enjoyable thing that you go,

you know all the people there. I don't know, it's like a sense of community. I like that shit. That's your sign that you're different, bro. What? That, just the fact that you compare it to Netflix and you think of it like that is, that's always to me a sign that like we're different.

Like that's, you have to remember that. It's enjoyable, like it's really fun. Yeah. If have to remember that. I feel like it's really fun. Yeah. If you do it the right way, like it's really fun. Did you know that? Did you know you're doing it the right way? Did you see results like come on really fast? Oh, no, no. I don't mean the right, like when you say the right way

is like programmed and like linear and like the right way is like, I've always just sort of done what I wanted. You know, like, okay. When I was competing and stuff, like, yeah, followed a rigorous plan, but like the goal of execution was done what I wanted. You know, like, okay, when I was competing and stuff, like yeah, I followed a rigorous plan, but like the goal of execution was like what I wanted to do. So like the right way for me was like, I have to execute this.

Nowadays it's like the right way for me is like, I wonder if I could do this and like, set some stupid shit up and film it. Now at this point you're like, yeah, but I'm going to law school, I'm gonna be a lawyer. That's what I want to do. When did you decide not going to be a lawyer? I'm gonna go do something else.

I started, so well, I had a Honda Accord at the time that was being repossessed. And I was like, fuck, I can't pay my rent this month. If I pay for the Accord, I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm just going to let them fucking take it. And I remember being like, well, people ask me, because I was competing at the time, broke bodybuilder story.

And people would always ask me like, oh, what do I do for this? What do I do for that? And I was like, I wonder if I could do online training. And I sort of wrote out this like plan while I was in the shower on my phone, like, all right, if I got this many clients at this rate, I could get this many people and I could pay my rent and I could keep my car like that'd be cool. And so I put a little thing together, made a website, got a GoDaddy and launched it.

And I posted it on Reddit and I posted it on Instagram and I was like, hey guys, you know, I'm training a few clients, whatever it is, online training and like 65 people reached out. Wow. And like hired me, because my price was stupid. It was like $60 a month or something. Oh, so huge.

Well, this was at a time that not everybody was online coaching. It wasn't this super huge space where there's guys charging five, $600 a month. And at this point, you've been active for years in these forums. Yeah. So people know you. Yeah. You're just so active.

Yeah. I mean, Reddit at the time had maybe like three quarters of a million people on it in the Reddit bodybuilding subreddit. And they had like somehow made me a mod after the 35 Hakes a Day bullshit. And so people knew me and I was a recognized. So that gives you the authority right there. Yeah. Yeah. And so people happily hired me and I was a recognized. So that gives you the authority right there. Yeah. Yeah.

And so people would happily hired me and I super undercut myself on accident because I didn't know the space of online coaches charging like 300, 400, $500 a month. And so I did that and got a whole bunch of people and I was like, Oh, this could be something. So I restructured, changed my prices a little bit. And now, now at this point, your only experience in fitness is you trained yourself, right?

You work yourself out, you read a lot. When you're getting 60-something clients who are now hiring you, are you thinking to yourself like, I'm not a coach, I'm not a trainer? How do you coach them, in other words, what do you do? So at this point, I'd work with a ton of people for free, just because I'd received some, like you get so many DMs, you get it all the time,

like what do I do for this? And. So you have experience doing that? Yeah. And I would just always tell them the same thing that the guy who coached me told me, like act like you paid me money and I'll act like you did and execute this thing.

Guys who wanted to train for a show. And so I'd probably had 30 or 40 people that I'd worked with and trained successfully to either win shows or place really well. And it was cool. Cause when I launched, I was able to not say, Hey, look at pictures of me, you know, look, look what I look like.

You should hire me. It was my clients and people that had not paid me, but I had done a good job for it. So I could like sort of splash on and be like, here's 50 people that I've worked with. So now you have some experience essentially with that. Yeah.

You, these people hire you, these 60 people, you start working with them and are you enjoying it? It was so fun. Yeah, it was great. I mean, it was cool. It was like, oh, I can be in sweatpants. But at this point, are you still like,

I'm gonna be a lawyer, I'm not gonna do anything in fitness? Kind of, yeah. Because, I mean, it was a lot, you know, bunch of people hire you all at once, and then more people, and they refer to friends, and then you have to raise your prices, and that shit starts happening. I'm like, doing doing finals in law school. I have a, I'm not a clerk, but

like a desk bitch at a law firm. I'm working at the law library and I'm in the emergency room at UPMC. So I have like all this shit going on and I was like, Oh my God, I have to like weed out some of these things. So I quit the job at UPMC and I stayed in the law library Because I borrowed the books because I didn't want to pay for now was that already the income that you were starting to make off These these clients is that already enough to sup to basically supplement what you were doing at the the clerk. Yeah Yeah, well because they didn't pay me. I was just their bitch. Oh, yeah So I could just stop doing that that was that was nice and I

Don't know it just sort of spiraled out of control and I had to raise my prices to a point where people would stop hiring me. And I called my aunt who's like my confidant in everything and I was like, Hey, like I'm doing this, this is paying me this right now. These are the prospective jobs that I could get if I, you know, when I graduate in a year, like

what do you think? And she was like, you should follow, you know, what you want to do. I think you're, if you're asking the question, you're probably more into this than that. And that's probably what you're going to be doing. I was like, okay. Now, at the moment, you're quite known, among other things, for going after people, for fraud or lying or misleading or, you know, essentially people in our space that are not doing things right.

And so what you do is you go after them, you find the way they lied, you make it public, you bring it to people's attention. In my experience with people who do that, something happened to them in the past that made them want to do this. Like, for example, Lane Norton's a good example. He's one of my favorite people, great guy.

Lanes the man. Loves going after people. He was bullied heavily as a kid, terribly. And so to me it's like, okay, now I see why you go after people the way you do. I didn't know that actually. Because you were so terribly bullied, so now it's like, this is me getting back at those bullies,

but I'm doing it in kind of the righteous way. Did something happen to you? What was it that made you go like, oh, this is what I want, I want to go after people? Or was it just, this gets attention and this is fun? I think- Was it the guilt from the eggs? When I wrote the book.

Yeah, I was gonna say, probably the guilt from the eggs. When that whole thing happened, cause it was, I was telling a joke online about eating 35 eggs a day, and people changed their entire fucking, what they eat on a daily basis and how they do their life. Because I said it I was like this is stupid. I don't know that was that was super huge to me and when

I started doing a couple of these videos I was like wow like there's really a lot of fucking terrible people in this industry like there's a ton of good ones don't get me wrong but there's like a lot of people just trying to like make a quick buck get one over on you and would never like the guilt I felt about just writing this joke online made me go and correct it and write this thing and kind of get it out there. Yeah, so anybody who works in our space would identify there's a lot of lies.

So that's one of the reasons why we started our podcast. Lane calls them charlatans. Yes. We have to use Lane's for help. And it's just that, I mean, most industries have challenges like this, but fitness is unique, it's just so much. I mean, 90% of the information that comes out is just,

it's not true, and they capitalize on people's insecurities, and it's just, I think anybody who works in fitness would admit that, but very few people make a career out of going after other people. I think the reasons are, A, you don't want to put a target on yourself, because oh, you could go after enough people. I know that Lane had a couple of experiences like that where people came after him and it was kind of scary.

That's one of them. And then the other one is it's just, um, you know, making a career like going after people could be exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. What's the driver for you? What is it that why focus there? What is the driver behind like that?

This is where your focus, your energy is on, you know, illuminating the lies or calling people out, I should say. It's like, I don't know, it's like cleaning your own home, right? Like, you live there, like you want it to be a nice place. Every dollar I have has come from the fitness industry and it has for a really, really, really long time.

And if you see people that are doing the wrong thing or lying or scamming or stealing, you wanna clean your home. So to me, I don't think it's a huge undertaking. I wish more people would do it. A lot of people that have their niche, they're like, I wanna protect this, nobody, if there's eight other people

that wanna do what I'm doing right now, that'd be pretty cool. Is it, you know, less bullshit. It's exhausting, you're right, it's exhausting. How do you pick the people, or do the people message you? And say, hey, I got ripped off, you know, less bullshit. It's exhausting. You're right. It's exhausting. How do you pick the people or do the people message you and say, Hey, I got ripped off. Yeah, I just have to always like that's, I don't scroll that often. Like I, there's a few things that I follow and I have like my own account.

It's just like things that I follow that I watch that's pushed to me. But if I get on the main account, it's like looking at the DMS, what do I got going on? Like that type of thing. You know, it's purely business that page Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's so hard for me to You know the level of what I understand what I know and the details of things that I know is like so small But the details of seven zillion people, you know that all Send you messages all the time like they know stuff. I don't know anything

Where did the skill of actually Reese because some of the stuff you dig is pretty wild. Like I'm like, I'm, that was one of the most impressive things. It's like one thing for, I can go through and go, Oh, that's probably Photoshop. Probably. I could, I could guess or whatever, but you dive into some stuff where you expose like history. Ike, where does that skill come from? Did you? Law school shout out. Is that what that is? I just, uh, I just always treat it like, uh,

like especially when you're digging into like a story, like an escape room where you're like, you hit the end and you're like, okay, you gotta go back to the beginning and you just sort of check every option, jiggle every door. Like you're going to find something. It's, you know, uh, there was a girl who faked cancer, a girl faked cancer. Her name's Lydia. No. Oh my God. And I got, she was sponsored by a self-employment company at the time. They were paying all this money to her,

got her a laptop, they were helping with her online training and shit and it was all bullshit. And the way I figured it out was I, you always kind of have to have like an angle, a story. Yeah. And a family treat her, a background checked her and I found out like who her family members were,

found them all on Facebook, sent them a message, hey, I'm a bodybuilding reporter, I'm doing a story on your sister Lydia, we're so proud of her for persevering through cancer and chemo and training and hitting PR, could you give me some of your time, we're doing a story on her. And all of her family was like,

what the fuck are you talking about? She doesn't have cancer. She doesn't have cancer and I was like interesting and you just start to you know wheel it back from there and then you look through everything and I sent her a message like hey here's this video I'm about to drop her her page is like everything cancer right like woe is me shaving her head there's videos of her, which is weird. She's shaving her head multiple times over like two years. Like, shouldn't you only have to do that once? And why are you shaving a full head? It was just a little bizarre, not always wrong, wrong, right?

Like some women are like, you know, I want to shave it before it goes. Totally reasonable. But she does like three times records at every time, like very strange. And I sent her the video, like, hey, this is what I'm gonna drop, like if there's anything that needs to be corrected or if you wanna smack me with an oncology report and ruin my life, like, you know, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, here you go.

And she sees the video and then goes to her page and just starts deleting everything related to cancer, like everything. And so I'd saved her page, like I saved all the info and I was able to then edit the end of my video and say Hey, by the way guys, I reached out to her when I told her what I was doing She started deleting all the cancer shit. So just so you know Wow, now you do you always give someone the opportunity to try and right the wrong?

Like how do you how do you handle that? How do you determine and then also? Like how do you determine this is worthy enough to potentially ruin their business or whatever? So generally if they show up on my page, it's like they've already, most of the time, if it's something that's able to be fixed, like they've had an opportunity to, to like fix it. There's so many things that I just send a DM to a company like, Hey, you did this like not cool. Can you just stop being stupid?

And a lot of the times they're like got you sounds good like really cool You know sounds good to me because people send me stuff all the time and I couldn't do a story and everything I don't want to because sometimes people are just being assholes and like I've been an asshole You guys have definitely all been assholes at some point in your life And you were wrong and you would like an opportunity to fix it so like sure But her it's like you you faked cancer. There's no going back. Yeah, that's unbelievable. That's another, I didn't even know that one. I didn't see that one. I didn't DM her for any opportunity to fix it.

I DMed her to torment her cause fuck that. Yeah, that's yeah. But if, you know, if she was like, Oh, I did it, I did it. I would put that in the video cause like absolutely fuck you. Do you, do you think people deserve a second chance, forgiveness for stuff like this? For most things, yeah, for sure. The child molester is absolutely not. Yeah, you faking cancer, like no. You're Photoshopping your photos, like, sure.

Yeah. Sure, man. Do you ever give people an opportunity? It's like, OK, look, I won't post this, but. All the time, all the time, all the time. And if they block me or something, I'm like, all right. That's all. But I think I've seen you post before where you'll give

somebody that opportunity to come out clean about it. And if you do, then you won't say anything. The Photoshop stories, it's like, it's not the end of the world and it's not, it's like entertaining. It's kind of funny usually. Like it's not a big deal, but it builds the page for when there's something serious that I want to post. Like, you know, if there's like a child molester in the

fitness world, like I want to talk about that. Like, well everybody's following me watching these funny videos of Photoshop, but if I always posted heavy stories, they wouldn't follow that closely because it's hard to watch. So part is a strategy too, like how do I grow the page, but then also, so it sounds like you're the biggest thing that you're wanting to focus on. You mentioned child molesters a few times. Tell me about that. I mean there's tons.

I mean, I don't know if you knew this, but on Instagram, if you're a registered sex offender, you're not allowed to be on the platform. That's an Instagram meta rule. So you can't have a Facebook, can't have an Instagram. If you're on Megan's Law or whatever. Yeah, if you're like a registered sex offender in any state.

But Instagram has no way of. They don't check. Yeah, so it comes to self-report. like registered sex offender in any state. But Instagram has no way of, yeah. So it's, it comes to self report. Now I found this out the other, like a month ago and I was like, Oh, interesting. I found the form. And so I did a video and I was like, Hey guys, we're going to go through and just, if we have sex offenders, just send it to me and we'll get them out the platform.

I'll do a video on it. So many people, so many people in the fitness space too, that I've done videos on that are like registered sex offenders.'ll go by you know if their names Jonathan They'll go by John or Johnny and then no not put their last name, but somebody out there Knows that you're fucking sex offender. Yeah, and they're gonna you know send something and whatever there was a guy named Ray short He's like an IFBB pro. I mean just all sorts of crazy shit all sorts of crazy. Are you ever worried that you might? crazy shit, all sorts of crazy shit. Are you ever worried that you might cause somebody to harm themselves or something bad to happen

to somebody because they got, because there are a lot of shitty people out there, but often these people are damaged and then they get that pressure of like, like let's say that cancer girl, she only reached so many people, but now she reached way more people knowing she's full of shit.

Do you ever think to yourself like, what if somebody hurts themselves? I mean, you know, that's a choice that she would make if she's not mentally well and does that, it's not me, maybe shouldn't fake cancer and gallivant as all of her clientele were girls going through chemotherapy. That's terrible.

That saw her and said, oh my God, you're squatting, you look great, what's the juice, what's the sauce, the secret, what is it? And she would take money from these girls going through, so like fuck her. So kind of back to what Sal was asking, normally there's something that drives you in this direction. Like why the pedophile thing too?

Not that I don't disagree with what happened. That's a pretty easy one, like nobody likes pedophiles. So you're just like looking at the list of the worst people and you're like, this is easy, no, I don't feel bad about going after these people. I mean, it's like, you know, I look at it and I'm like, all right, well, there's people that'll listen to me and pay attention, what can I do with this?

And it's like, the answer is not always like, advertise for something that benefits me. Sometimes it's like, I don't know, fucking, this guy has ruined somebody else's life, why don't you fuck his life up too? There was a coach that I just had from Australia. He had 2000 some odd images of child pornography on his device.

How did you find out this was already caught, reported? Yeah. Well, he did time in 2017. He got sentenced to like whatever, a suspended sentence, never ended up actually going to jail for it. He was a corrections officer, somehow got off like extremely easy. So he moves towns, changes his name a little bit, goes into a gym, gets adopted

into that gym, starts training at the gym, has women under him that are coaches under him and nobody talks about it. And somebody sent it to me like, Hey, someone else knew they sent it to you. Hey, that's almost always like that. Right. Is that right? Well, think about like somebody you went to high school with somebody that you went to college with somebody's going to know that you know, did this thing back in 2000, whatever. And then you see them super popular online. Like, yeah,

like you really can't just run away from that. So I did a video on this guy, you know, he's, he did this much time. He served zero days in jail for having a bunch of child porn sick, fuck, and there's women that are on it. And so I did the video. It's like, here's, you didn't get punished in the real world. You've now created this cool life for yourself, but like, fuck you, you shouldn't be able to have that. Yeah.

You ever worry about someone retaliating on you? I know it's all about them hurting themselves. I'd be more worried about- That part of my brain does not exist. Oh my God. I don't know why. I go to every expo, I post for a mad, I post at every gym, I don't care. I mean, that's a bit crazy, dude. I feel like that would be the thing that I go to every expo. I post for a man. I posted every gym. I don't care like it's I mean

That's a bit crazy, dude I feel like that would be the thing that I'd be most worried about Cuz I mean listen if you if these people are Evil enough to fake cancer and take money from people and do some of these things I mean What's the stop especially if they've built a large business off of that and you come in and disrupt the shit out of it I would be really worried about the retaliating on that side especially if they've built a large business off of that and you come in and disrupt the shit out of it, I would be really worried about retaliating on that side.

So you don't even, and that hasn't happened? You haven't had anybody try and come after you? No, if it happens, it happens, but it wouldn't make me stop doing it. The thought of that wouldn't make me stop doing it, and that thought is why a lot of people don't call out bullshit. Right, so you're committed to it.

I think the main reason why people, well there's two reasons. One is what you said, that's a big one, right? The fear of people coming after you. I think the main reason why people, well there's two reasons. One is what you said, that's a big one, right? The fear of people coming after you. I think the other part is that people feel like, well if I do this, someone might dig up my past and see some stuff that I did and nobody's perfect and you ever think about that?

Like oh shit, what if somebody decided to. I'm just not a demon. Yeah. Yeah, really, you can post the worst shit that I've done. He's like, I'm pretty lame, I did a lot of school. Yeah. I've really not done that much wrong. Some ex-girlfriend out there like, no, he's a demon. The general sense and not that bad of a

person. So how do you balance the page with this kind of, you know, pro bono, go after pedophiles, do good for the world with you also have to make money and build a business too. So how does that balance look like for you? I still coach clients and I have some brand deals with companies that I work with that will pay me to do it. And it's super cool, because a lot of the companies I work with are like, hey, whatever organic way you want to do this shit,

here's the budget go, which is awesome. So those are really fun. I usually only take companies that I fuck with too, which is cool, because you have that choice. Not just say yes to everybody. That's about, I mean, as far as just making money, that's it. Instagram pays you views, but it's like.

Nothing. Yeah. Now have they been pretty good about not shutting you down or in terms of people reporting you? Certainly right now, bro, I'm super shadow banned. Yeah, I was gonna say, you gotta be shadow banned because just trying to play us with you yeah I get reported all the time I've been banned like 22 times like it's but you figure out how to get out you know you have to send in the reports and whatever it just becomes part of the

job I guess do you have like a backup platform and something else like just in case I have a shut down if you if you type my name into Instagram there's like five accounts that come up and there's like a in case. I have a. I think shut down. If you type my name into Instagram, there's like five accounts that come up. And there's like a couple of those that have like 50 or 60,000 on them, but other than like not really. But like, I don't know, my mindset is, okay, you could delete the page,

but you can't delete me. Yeah. Like I will do it again. Like go ahead, I will do it again. It'll be totally fine. As long as I'm alive, I think it'll be okay. Has there been anybody you've gone after that you look back and,

ah, it could have been easier on that person. When are you gonna go after Epstein then? That's what I wanna know. Find us this client list. Please give us the list, yeah. What's going on here? Not really, honestly. Everything I do is for a purpose,

and if I did it, I meant it. And if I did it, it was real. And I wasn't. Who are some of your favorites? You mentioned Cancer Girl, that's terrible. Cancer Girl was. That's up there. I tormented her, that was, I had fun with that one.

I was like, fuck you, like actually. My dad died of cancer and I was like. So you got a personal job. Yeah, I was like, ooh. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I was out to get her, for sure. Like I'd never have done that where I torment them

and send the DM before. I told her what time I was gonna post get her for sure like I I'd never have done that where I torment them and send the DM before I told Her what time I was gonna post the video to This is when your life changes, bitch Clock I think I would have a hard time like what I'd have our time with is that and I remember even when we came out We talked about the shreds guys so that and we I'm sure we were And I remember even when we came out, we talked about the shreds guys with that. And I'm sure we were responsible for the downfall of them. Shut up, potato shop.

But looking back, I think about like, this has really always been happening. We're just using a different medium now. Like magazines and commercials have been photoshopped and edited for as long as we can remember. I mean, they've been duping us forever. And so now it's it's the same thing, just somebody is doing it on a personal level. And so I think that's the part that I would probably have like a hard time is like, well, I mean, our culture has kind of been fucking doing this for over.

It doesn't mean it's right. That used to be a comment that was left on my page all the time. Oh, yeah. Always comment. I would always reply to it because I was like, we need to kill this. Yeah. And the answer to that is, why would we always do things the same way? Is that how anything gets better?

It's like, well, it's always been that way. There's a lot of horrible things in society that have happened where it's like, oh, it's always like that. We just have to change them and something big has to happen for you to be like, well, maybe we shouldn't edit all this shit. You know, with Aerie, uh, they're like a

women's clothing company. They had a huge campaign that did tons of damage in that space of magazines where they're like, we're not touching up anything, editing nothing. What happened the next year, there were three other companies that did the exact same thing. Yeah.

It's like, cool, you know, oh, wow, they're not doing it. Well, I guess things can change. Have you seen like some positive stuff like that because you've impacted like either a company or a person? Have you actually seen some really good positive change? Dude, every time I go to an expo or something, there's like, it's usually women and they're like,

I used to edit my pictures, but like I don't anymore. Part out of fear and part out of like, I just realized I don't have to anymore. Wow. You scared the shit out of a bunch of other people. Yeah. How many a day are you getting from fall? You open today, or every day you're having to open up and look through your DMs.

And are you getting that many? Is it that many out there? Yeah. I mean, think about how many Instagram accounts there are. And people in the fitness space, it's huge. So then how do you determine which one you're going to do and not do? Like, if you've got six in there right now,

you only got time for two or three of them. So there's actually some strategy to it. Okay. You have to be balanced and you have to, uh, you have to like consider, like, what does this look like from somebody that doesn't know me and doesn't know my heart? You know, if there's like 18 women that have been sent to me in a row that are like popular fitness accounts that are all of like, you know, like bikini bodybuilders, if I do 18 of me in a row that are like popular fitness accounts that are all of like you know like bikini bodybuilders if i do 18 of those in a row even though it just is what came across my desk do i look like a fucking in-cell hater the answer is yes so you got to place it up

if i get a man photoshopping which is pretty rare if you're a man and on my page you're probably a fucking child molester or something worse like usually the men are doing the demon shit. I'm like, man, Photoshop, run it right now. Like if somebody DMs me, I have right away, right away. But if it's a, it's like, all right, bikini bodybuilder, Photoshopping your photos. It's so common. Back of the list.

Yeah, wow, so common. Yeah, wow. Tell us about the charities and stuff that you work with. I mean, we did a giant toy drive this last year with a strong New York, which was cool. I kind of pissed off the owner of the gym. I didn't really tell them that we were doing it and I made a video and posted the address. He got mad. Probably tons of people were dropping toys off.

Yeah, but I still think that would be great promo for you. I mean, think about it. So it's like, toys are showing up here every day. I mean, that's what I'm confused. So we live, it's in New York city City right? This is on the fifth floor. It's like a small little gym and there's an entryway with an elevator type of situation and I put the thing out on like a Thursday and I was like hey guys and so the you know the mail right like Thursday Friday Monday comes around and he's calling me he's like John we can't get into the gym. Why is your name on all these fucking packages?

And I was like, oh yeah, like I posted a toy drive thing. Like he's like, is this gonna keep happening? I was like, yeah, probably. Oh wow. It was really successful. But this is actually what, I think this was one of the first things that really caught my attention with you.

I mean, I was already probably watching the clips, but part of what made me reach out to you was, we've talked forever and we just haven't got around to doing like some sort of a cool drive like that. And it was super successful. It's so easy. And it was really successful, right? Talk about how, like how much, what you guys did.

So, well, the hard part is finding the families and finding like a big network of people to show up and get that, like you guys could get the toys. I promise you, like you just throw it out there, like thousands show up. It's insane. But then just networking with, you know, somebody to bring food or like organization getting a Santa

Claus to show up that type of thing. And then wrapping all that shit is a giant pain in the ass. But I mean, we had 300 some families show up. That's cool. Which was like ridiculous. It was nonstop from the time we opened to the time, like the, it was closing. Yeah.

It was just insane. So you had him come to the gym. Did you guys have a Santa Claus there? And then you guys had- We had a Russian Santa Claus. He was, he was dope. He was great. He showed up.

We catered it with, uh, there was like a pizza spot at the, on the first floor. And we were like, hey, like can we buy a ton of pizza tomorrow? And they were like, no, I don't think so. I was like, please. So they did. Plans to do that this year again or what's the- Yeah, we're trying to do it bigger and better.

Same place or are you gonna have to go somewhere a little bit bigger? Our big hang up last year was just the space. It wasn't big, it's a gym, but it's like, it's like as big as your guys kind of lobby situation. So it's like not enough for 300 people to be there. There's a stairwell that goes up and there were like, when we open, I like, we had everything set up and I was like, all right, let me see if

anybody's here yet. And I opened the door and it was like everybody in the lobby. And then they were filtered down the stairs, like all five floors. Just waiting to get in, it was insane. What was the motivation for that, for the toy drive? Well it took me two minutes to record the video and it helped hundreds of people, so it was just very easy. Yeah, but still there's a motivation to want to do that.

You talked about where you grew up, where you just, it was just something like, oh, when I grew up it was tough for me. Yeah, it was poor as hell. Okay. So talk about that. So that made, that sounds like a pretty strong motivation. So I don't know. It's like, if you can do something small and help people, like, why not do it? Like it was literally no effort at all.

It made me mad actually, cause I posted this video and I was like, I should have done this before. Well, no, no. Cause like my page at the time, I only had like maybe 150,000 or something on there. Like it, it was way less than I have now And I was like damn I could post this and all the shit shows up and these motherfuckers aren't doing that like why? It's so easy. Yeah, like it was just so easy What's the end the like the the end game or future for kind of what you're doing? Do you want to continue because you're getting kicked off Instagram people gonna complain or whatever are you thinking? Okay, I'm gonna move in a different direction, different platform, grow this in a different way?

I'm just gonna disappear one day, bro. Really? Do you? They're gonna be like, fuck all the Photoshop. That's like, that's where I say, boy, Juju, that's how he is, too. John, John Kahl's gonna go out that one day. One day, no one's gonna see him. I'll be gone, and they're gonna be like,

damn, Photoshop's back. All the scammers are here. There's pedophiles on Instagram. What's John at? So tell me a little bit about- I'm gonna re-peer. Bad signal. I'm curious about your childhood. I mean, you've kind of just brushed over,

like the fact that you grew up poor. You lost your dad. Tell me about your home life. You got brothers and sisters. How did you grow up? What was that like? I have a brother. We grew up in West Virginia.

OK. Chester. World's largest teapot. Shout out. You guys have heard of it, obviously. Because we told us earlier. So you've heard of it? Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. Just grew up in West Virginia, man. That's the summary. I mean, gamer, you said, right? Were you close to your brother? Are you like, what's the age difference? He's a year older than me.

He's a year older. He's still in West Virginia. I actually forced him to go to law school, so he's an attorney. Oh, wow. So both of you guys went that direction. Yeah. Okay, so you come from not very much, obviously. Yeah.

Oh, there's a tip-off. Is the drive- Look at that, huh? All right. There's the- Is the drive to become a lawyer a financial thing? What's the motivation of even trying to become a lawyer? I mean, our family sucked, so I was like, man, we can't, you know, and nobody went to college, like none of that.

I was like, we can't suck. So we have to. And you thought lawyer because it's a, it's a esteemed position. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've always thought it was super interesting.

Were you academically, um, I mean, did you do act well academically as a kid growing up or did you just decide lawyer and then turn it on? Yeah. I mean, I not a great stud as mentioned, that I was writing a book about 35 eggs a day while I was supposed to be doing my finals, but I've always done well in school. I'm not the most studious person.

I'm very responsible with that. And so you grew up, what, mom and dad were together the whole time? Yeah. And then how old were you when your dad got sick? 12. Oh, you were young. Yeah, yeah, he had cirrhosis.

It was like the kind of cancer that you earn through alcohol. Oh man. Yeah. He was, was it okay. So you had tough coming up, even tough childhood alcoholism played a role. I mean, no, my dad was fucking savage. Like he had cancer and like was going through chemo. He worked at a drywall plant and a copper plant before that. And he would still go to work. The fuck is wrong with this guy? And he would just drive to work. He had a Goldwing motorcycle. He'd ride that shit to work.

Like, dude, you have cancer. What the fuck's wrong with you? So he got it at 12, and then when did he pass? When I was 17. So he fought it on and off for all. Five years, yeah. For five years. And then after that, it was just, that's it.

It was mom and you and your brother, and then? My mom had died the prior year to him dying. So she died when I was 16. She had a heart attack. Bro. Bro, you had a crazy journey. That was just, that's it, it was mom and you and your brother and then? My mom had died the prior year to him dying. So she died when I was 16. She had a heart attack. Bro, bro, you had a crazy childhood. How'd you just like downplaying the shit out of it, dude? It's not that crazy.

Yeah, dude, it's that good. Did you feel, did you feel at any, because a lot of things are making sense right now. Did you feel at any point like, life's dealing me a shit hand and I'm gonna go out and make a difference? Or did you feel like I got to do something or like how do you,

how does a kid deal with that? Because that's hard man, your mom dies, heart attack, random. Dad gets cancer at 12, is fighting it the whole time and I know people, I've known people in my life to battle cancer for that long and it's not like, yeah I'm kind of, it's like oh almost going to die, no I'm not, oh almost going to die, no I'm not.

So it's really, really, I'm kind of psyched. Oh, almost gonna die. No, I'm not. Oh, almost gonna die. No, I'm not. So it's really, really, really traumatic and stressful oftentimes. How do you cope and deal with that growing up? I mean, I don't, it's like, you can't change it. And like, so worrying, like it's like, I don't know. It's like, what do I do now? Yeah.

It's kind of like, what do I do? My aunt who I spoke about a little earlier. Sounds like you were close with her then. Yeah, well, I was 17 at the time, so I couldn't be on my own. So she like, I'd never met her actually up until this point ever. Oh really? It's just, she like fly cause it was Christmas cards and stuff, like birthday, whatever. And she like flies in.

Is this dad's sister or mom's sister? Mom's sister. Dad's sister is a horrible person. Let's talk about that later. If you want to. But yeah, she flew in and she was like, yeah, you're, uh, mine now. And she's awesome. She's a super sweet lady. She, uh, she's a hairdresser in Los Angeles, California. So you moved to LA. Yeah. Oh, what was that move like from West Virginia to LA? You know, Chester, West Virginia, Los Angeles, California, like very similar cultures.

So, right. I mean the world's largest teapot. Maybe the two opposite ends of the spectrum as far as you could get from that. I was like what the fuck? There was like 110 kids in my high school and I got to LA and I went to Westchester High, which is like.

Was it senior year of high school? Yeah. So brand new kid, West Virginia, gamer. You're not even working out at this point. A little bit. I was like not obss, no, no, no, I wasn't working out. OK. Chubby kid?

Were you like a chubby gamer? I was into bicycles. I was into fixed gear bikes. OK, OK. You know what fixed gears are? Yeah. Like a BMS bike? No, no, no, no.

Fixed, it's like a track bike. So there's no free wheel. It's super cool. It's like a thing in LA. It was like a part of the culture. Oh is cool. Cause I was already into it, but it's like these people like going bike rides and they like get fucking hammered and drive around the city at like three AM. So me 17 showed up. I was like, Oh yeah, this sounds great. Did you get,

did you get fit right in? Do you get picked on? No, it was, I mean, it was, it was kind of funny that I was there for like two weeks, and I can, do you know what Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles is? Yeah, of course we do. So I had never been, and I found out that a lot of the kids in my class had never been, and I convinced them all to like, basically go with me to the hood, to go.

Like there's a couple Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles, and there's one that's like, deep, like far away from where we lived, and I was like, let's go on a road trip. And like, they just all went with me for God knows what reason. And you guys made it back okay? Yeah, it was totally fine.

It was delicious. It was absolutely delicious. So it was an easy transition to go from there to LA. You made friends. Everything was fine. This is like the reverse version of Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Yeah. Yeah.

We did the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. John, how old are you right now? How old are you? 33. 33. Did you go how old are you right now? How old are you? 33.

33. Did you go to any therapy or anything at all? Have you ever tried to work through this thing that you don't think is traumatic that happened in your life? Did you ever? Not really. Really? I remember my dad was like, let's go to therapy.

And he wanted to go. And I was like, OK, I'll go with you, Dad. And I went to go with him. Yeah. But it was for him. Yeah. But it was like for him. Yeah. Yeah. He just lost his wife.

So you don't, you don't feel that any of that stuff. He sounds like Justin Harry. Just like, yeah, just stuff it. Yeah. Just stuff it. I know. I didn't. I didn't.

Yeah. I'm fine. Yeah, exactly. Kind of funny how guys like that are strong, really strong. Yeah. There's where it all comes out inside the gym. Yeah, I mean, you do not think that some of that stuff down there is driving some of the things that you do. Is maybe all the stuff that you do at everybody else to keep the light off of you?

Like, don't ask about me, don't ask about my child. Or I feel like I'm taking out these bad people and it's making me feel like I got purpose and you know, it could be a lot of fun. But like, I don't feel like anything bad has ever been done to me, so like not really. Like, it's just the hand you're dealt and like you just have to kind of deal with it.

That's a very logical way of thinking. Nobody did it to me, it's like I'm saying. Listen, it's a very logical way of thinking and I get that because I can be like that very much, like well this is just what happened, this is how you, but it's a very logical way of thinking and I get that can be like that very much Like well, this is just what happened. Yes, this is how you but it's not a feeling way But like think about Batman. It's like yo somebody shot your mom and dad Yeah, fair where you're supposed to have fun. Yeah, like yeah, of course you be a superhuman and go stop bad guy Have a Batman moment it was like oh fuck that yeah But you don't you don't have and I get what you're saying. I didn't have a Batman moment. It was like, oh fuck that content.

And I get what you're saying because I think I had a very similar thought process around my child. Like I never complained about how I grew up. I just, it was the hand that was dealt. And in fact, I say a lot of things about like, man, I'm blessed it went that way because it turned me into the person. I have a sense of pride in it because it's like there's so many

people that suck and had like awesome starts Yeah, yeah, like oh you I was on hard mode sir you you were not like it's sort of like yeah What is your take on that? I mean there's we do kind of live in this kind of Entitlement victimhood is a popular thing does that bother you when you hear people that are like that or like or do you have empathy for? Them like how are you with me? I think people are at a significant disadvantage when they have a leg up? Cuz like you don't know what's hard. Why is this?

This is what I made this argument the other day about like everybody thinks that Coming but this always pisses this will piss people off for sure that coming from privilege is actually the advantage And I say that I think it's a disadvantage I think it's a disadvantage because your tolerance for bullshit is extraordinarily low Like I used to be really good friends with this extremely wealthy person and any small like grain of sand in their day would ruin their day it would be like normal shit or like things that would be it would be like your best day like they went to Louis Vuitton and they didn't have the backpack that they wanted like that's great you were to Louis Vuitton and they didn't have the backpack that they wanted. Like that's great. You were in Louis Vuitton able to make a purchase, but it ruined

your day because the gym was closed today. Just like small little things set them to a point where they couldn't function. And it's like, damn. The variable that's missing is mindset. Because statistically speaking, if you look at, you know, disadvantaged over advantaged, statistically speaking disadvantaged, you look at, you know, disadvantage over advantage, statistically speaking, disadvantage, more likely to commit crime, more likely to be in jail, more likely to be drug addicted. But then you have these outliers that just, it's like how, why, how did that person come out of that?

Not just come out of that, but come out of that with tremendous success and the variable that people, and then of course you got people who grew up with all opportunities and they end up you know completely squandering it and becoming just dirtbags or losers or deadbeats or whatever. What's the variable? What's the x factor? It's mindset. Mindset is a big x factor that's happening with something like that. Were there external things though that motivated? Because I remember like when I go back here and I do this exercise of like trying to figure out okay what was it like you know why did I have a mindset similar to you? I

Thought I mean I saw other people that because my family were raised that like money was evil and was all bad Like it was bad to have money, right? And so I started to see people that were really successful that were really good people and I thought man I don't I don't like where I'm at I Want that and the stuff that my parents were saying doesn man, I don't like where I'm at. I want that. And the stuff that my parents were saying doesn't seem to line up. And so I had something to look at and go,

okay, I'm gonna go figure this out for myself. Did you have anything external like that? Either a person or something that you saw that made you go, I'm gonna be a lawyer, I'm gonna go do this, I don't want this for my life. Definitely my aunt, honestly. Because I grew up in, for my life. Like. Definitely my aunt, honestly. Yeah. Cause I mean, I grew up in like, it was not a lot and she's extremely successful,

like small business owner has had a very large salon at the time. And just meeting her and like knowing that she was a member of my family was like kind of cool. And my uncle's also really dope. They lives in California. He like manages a bunch of metal bands, like a bunch of motorhead bands and stuff. And I remember meeting him for the first time, his name's Tom Vitorino. He also is in a Bruce Springsteen cover pen

that tours in Japan. Wow. He's cool as fuck. It's so obscure. That's Justin's secret dream right there, dude. You guys just become best friends. We just become best friends. So I'm like 17, my parents just died, I fly out to LA,

I meet this woman for the first time, and she's like, I'm gonna introduce you to your uncle, and drives me to his, he just bought this mansion in like, Gardena Hills, which I didn't know what the fuck that meant, and it's like, rich people place. He just bought the new Corvette, it just came out, the C6 or whatever it was and he just bought one and it's like I'm there for five minutes he's like hey

kid wanna go out for a ride? And I was like sure and he has like this Batman black brand new ZO6 Corvette it is like right and we're going he's like yeah I'm also like a race car driver like he's telling me like his whole discography of what he does he like races cars in the, and I was just like, damn, my family doesn't suck. Maybe I could do something. Maybe I could do something cool. But just seeing that and understanding that there were people in my family

that weren't just a slave in a way. Wow, what a turning point. It was cool. Do you really want to make them proud? I suppose. I don't want to make me proud. What do you mean, my aunt's proud of me. Yeah, I mean, because for someone to do that,

take care of you, she doesn't know you. It's a big deal, especially the kid. She's got to be stoked to see where you're at in your life right now. She was huge, I mean, think, she was like 55 at the time, or no, she was 50. She had a four year old son, Jack, and she like,

this is teenager that she's never met like move into my house. Who the fuck does that? Yeah, right. Nobody's doing it. Like I would not have blamed her. If she was like, fuck off, go to the, you know, I would go to a foster home for like six months, turn 18, go figure my shit out. But she was like, fly in. I showed up, I'd never met this woman before. She's like, we gotta get you a car. And I was like, no, I can't ride a bicycle. She's like, no, you're a fucking adult, you need a car. I was like, okay, and she bought me a Volkswagen Golf.

I was like, who the fuck is this lady? Never met her before. And she's just like, buying me a car, it was insane. Now when you moved in, you got all this, were you thinking like, I want to be the perfect kid. I want to be the perfect kid for these people. They're taking care of me. They're, or were you more rebellious like?

I was a fucked in the head, 17 year old degenerate. Uh, I don't know. I didn't know what the fuck was going on. I mean, what? Yeah. Cause a lot of times when you read about this, like kid will go two different ways. One, which is more rare is I just want to be perfect. The other one is, do you really love me?

Let me see if you love me now. Let me see if you love me now. Let me see if you love me now. Let me see if you love me now. Let me see if you love me now. And they just keep doing shit to test without realizing that's what they're doing. I was like super, like I would never be home and I would be like out till like five in the morning

and like just, she didn't see me for like months. And she'd be like, I remember when she was like, John, are you like, where are you? Like, are you okay? Like, I'd never see you. And I was like, oh yeah. I'm assuming that they probably gave you a lot of freedom and latitude.

I mean, you're almost 18. You just came from what you came from. So she's probably not trying to control you. They just, they gave you your space. I would do dumb shit and they were like, understand, understand. Wow, wow. That's great.

So I mean, okay, yeah. And I feel like we're finally getting to like some of this motivation. I feel like this is, at least I would be this way like the fact that you you recognize you're a bit of a dumb shit They still took you on the wing. She handed you she's this great person I would think that that would be a big driving factor of like what would motivate me to be successful and did like show That like hey, it was worth taking care of they're helping me out. No for sure Yeah, so what at what point did you tip over from, uh, considering yourself, uh,

somebody poor to like, I've made it. I've now I'm, I'm doing this. Still feel more. Yeah, kind of. Really? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's just the internet, you know, everything's not real. It's like the internet's not real. Man. Do you got NFT house and all that? Fucking somebody. Uh, I, I put a thing up like a Q and a, I usually do what I'm traveling. Cause it's like fun to sit there. And somebody's like, do you fly private ever? Or why are you? I'm like,

who do you think I am? There is a, there is a big, uh, like misconception around just cause you have a ton of followers and you're automatically rich. Yeah. I've just really not made it my thing to milk my followers for every dollar that they have. You know, some people for sure they do do that, but not me. So what's the plan? What's the vision then? If you still don't feel like, and you want to disappear, like, yeah, you haven't arrived. Yeah. What's, what is the plan? What's the vision then? If you still don't feel like- And you want to disappear, like what would you do? Yeah, you haven't arrived. What is the plan?

The plan is, I don't know, man. Keep doing what I'm doing and find something that I love. I've already found it, I think. I just love doing it. There's no, I don't think about tomorrow or a week from now. You ever thought about going into, because media and journalism is so different now.

It used to be like major networks, but now you've got a lot of rogue, kind of independent journalists who go out and investigate shit. Sounds like you got that skill. You're just focused on the fitness industry. But you ever think about going big dogs? Like big pharma, you know, lobbyists, like politicians.

That's what you need, by the way, you need to hide, by the way. That's when the shit starts coming after you. Just want to warn you. Yeah, they'll kill me. Yeah, yeah. Do you ever think about that? Like maybe I'll just go like, I'm going to be like,

this is what I like doing. I'm going to investigate and be a journalist and make this happen. I love that shit. It's just, I don't know if I'm there yet. I would need like a team. It's just me. Like I don't have anybody.

But you love it. Yeah, I mean it's smaller. It's manageable. Like that's a huge production, like a big undertaking. Do you at one point, you have a girlfriend? Did you at one point when you get married have kids, family? Because of circumstances we've talked,

like marriage isn't that important to me. But if it's important to my partner, then it's important to me. So like, it's not something I really think about. I'm not like, oh, I can't wait to get married. Well, that makes sense because- I was like, who the fuck is gonna come to my wedding? Well, the reason why that makes sense is because if you're like, I'm'm not like, oh I can't wait to do it. Well that makes sense because... I was like, who the fuck is going to come to my wedding? The reason why that makes sense is because if you're like, I'm going to have

the kids and a family, you'd be more afraid of the kind of investigative journalism type stuff. But your future is kind of like, let's see what happens. So that makes sense. I don't know, I think it's all about what can you give to the world. It's not like, how can I make this great for me?

What do you want your big contribution to be? I mean, right now you're outing people in the fitness space. Yeah, I mean the truth. And child molesters and pedophiles online type of deal. What do you want your big contribution to be?

I love what I'm doing now where there's like a ton of different things that I could say like, man, I did that. You know, like last year, 350 kids had a Christmas because I did something like that. That's cool to me. Just being able to say that like a hundred times is awesome. Like some more of that. Yeah. Way more of that. Who, who, what has been your experience like going?

Cause you've been to quite a few expos now, right? Yeah. What has been your experience meeting other fitness people like ourself and stuff like that? Like, are you surprised most of the time by what they're like ourself and stuff like that? Like, are you surprised most of the time by what they're like in person and who they are? Or are you pleasantly surprised? Are you let down? Like, what has been like your journey of meeting other fitness people? Sometimes they're like weirdos that can't turn it off. Like there's some that like, dude, I just want to have a conversation with you. And they're like filming and shit. Like,

like it's a podcast. That makes sense. But like there's some people conversation with you and they're like filming and shit Like like it's a podcast that makes sense but like there's some people you meet them and it's like Shooting the shit and you look to your right and like their mic is on The lapel mic is on and their dudes filming. Yeah, they're still they're still a character, right? Yeah Yeah, there's a lot of that. What are you doing? So I feel like there's more that than the other I mean, I've our experience has been like that. It's rare that we meet a real person. Mainly YouTubers, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, you meet them in there. Everything isn't content, bro. Like, live your life. Because I go to these, like, I've been going to these expos since 2014. I've been going to the Arnold. And I like to go as a fan of the thing. And like, I want to stand in the lines

and like, meet the people and stuff. And it's like, I don't want to be filming stuff, like I'm there to enjoy it. And it's hard to do if you're like, hey, let me interview you about this. Who are you a fan of in the space? What do you mean? Like who you like.

Like you're getting in line to meet people. Who are you a fan of? Who are you like? Rest in peace, Rich Payana, always stood in his line, never got to the end. Oh no. Never got to the end. It was Seth Ferozzi, of course. Which is, I have a cool story about Seth. Sure. Oh no. Never got to the end. It was, uh, Seth Ferosi, of course.

Okay. Which is, I have a cool story about Seth. Sure. So like I know him now, but I was always a fan of him. I don't know if you know, he's like, he was a bodybuilder. Yes.

Went pro, Europa, disappeared. He had some health problems. And then I'm at the Arnold in like 2015 and he's there like working a booth. And I was like, holy shit, Seth Ferrosi, like, what are you doing here? Nobody's in his line. Nobody knows who he is. He's just like working the booth and I bought one.

He had, he was selling his t-shirts like under the booth and the AAR t-shirts. So I bought one. And then like the next year I come back and I'm like, all right, where the fuck is Seth at? I go to the Promeval Labs booth. He's not there. He has his own fucking booth cause AAR

popped off that year. And I was like, shit. I waited like two hours to go say hi and get a picture with him again. Like, that's kind of cool. And yeah, there's some of your favorites. Yeah. I mean, you know, Steve Cook, like, okay. Nowadays, like you go to those things and it's like there's 18 YouTubers that are like the thing. And I'm like, I don't know who these guys are.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You've met Steve, you've met Andy too. I see you're rocking first form. Did you do Andy's show? Did you get on it? No, no, no. You have a show you met Andy to us you're rocking first form like you did you do Andy show? Did you get on it? No, no, no, you just know him. I want to How did that relationship did he reach out to you because of the stuff that you were doing or how did you guys get? Connected so I did a big call out in first form. Oh But Andy's a savage and was like let's fix this shit

Sent out contracts to everybody made them sign a Photoshop goop clause, and kept it fucking pushing. Oh shit. I didn't know that. Andy's a savage. The toy drive we were just talking about, like he reaches out to me, he's like, yo bro, how can I help?

And at this time, like I'm walking into the fucking gym every day, cannot walk into the gym, there are too many fucking toys. And I was like, no, we're good. And he's like, no, how can I help? And I was like, we're good. We have enough. And he's like, no, what do you need?

And he's like, I'm going to send you a check. I was like, motherfucker. Sends it. So we, like, he sends me this check and I was like, what did we end up going to like Macy's, filling up? It was stupid. It was dumb.

Like it was every kid left with like six toys and we had nearly 1,000 left over that we donated to a women's shelter afterwards. So this is kind of a cool story. You call out Andy Vercella for some first-form people. Which, to defend him in this situation, they probably have thousands of kids that are affiliated with their brand.

And so probably an honest shit I didn't know. Well, I was, so like I watch your show, I watch his show. Like I've always been a fan of his stuff. Yeah. And I was like, damn, this is hard cause he's like one of my heroes, but like I have to do this because he's the dude that'll crack heads. And then everybody will look and be like, oh, first form did it. We have to do it too.

I've been sent so many Photoshop clauses from other brands that they've put in because they're like, fuck. You've made a big impact there, yeah, crazy. And I mean, sometimes you have to go after that type of thing. If I was like, oh man, I'm a fan of Andy, I'll just let this one go. It's like, does that help me, I guess, on a personal level?

Like, yeah, maybe, maybe you wanna make him like me more or something like that, but no, it doesn't help. It sounds like he did the right thing. Yeah, like, yeah, maybe, like, maybe you want to make him like me more or something like that, but like, no, it's, it's doesn't help things. Sounds like you did the right thing. Yeah, dude. He's speaks volumes about his character, right? You call him out on some shit, which definitely hurts, makes him look bad. He takes it. He takes it on the, takes it on like on the chin.

Oh, you were too. You were hard. It hurt me. Cause I'm like a fan of this guy and I was like, fuck, okay, let's welcome to the show. It was bad. It was bad. But I mean, he crushed it, man. He there's a very short list of people that I've done videos on that like haven't blocked me or have even like acknowledged the thing. You know, usually they're like, turn all the comments off, lay low, wait two weeks.

He was like, nah, he got my phone number within like five minutes of me posting the video. Because he knows fucking everybody. So tell me how that phone call goes. So he literally. I didn't answer, he left me a voicemail. And I was like, I can't, because my policy is usually

like front facing, like outward. Like I don't want to, I don't want to have these personal side conversations. It's just like, here's the thing, here's what's wrong, just fix it. And that's, he's like, fuck, got it, killed it. That's, is that how, so when do you, he leaves, you put it out there,

and then did you demand or say anything? No, that's the thing, like I just criticized. I was like, here's this athlete doing the whatever, and he like somehow got all these contracts out of these people, made them all sign it with like in a week. Like all their whole team was like, here's this athlete doing the whatever. And he somehow got all these contracts that these people made them all sign it with in a week. Their whole team was like, fuck, we're on notice. You got it. It was crazy.

Wow. That's great. And then any follow up after that? Did you guys talk? Because I think you've talked to him since then, haven't you? We're homies, man. Yeah. I talk to him every day.

Yeah, so how does that unfold? I mean, because at one point there, you have the, OK, this guy's a guy I really like. I hate to do this. I feel bad. There's got to be a party that's going like I hope he does the right thing or I hope this doesn't root I was so happy when like I got the word that like all these contracts that you were going on and I saw it I was like this is cool and so like a year went by and it was like this awkward like man I fucking love it like I still watch this show it's like man

these guys probably fucking hates me and I'm at Natural Body in Queens, which is, it's like a supplement store. They're a huge first form company. They're like one of the first people that ever started carrying his stuff or whatever. Like they were long time first form brand supplement store. And they have a block party once a year. And I got invited to it to go with flavor gang or one of my friends companies.

And I'm there and this dude comes up to me and he's got a, uh, are you guys watch guys? Yeah. The guy with the sky dwellers, watch guy. He has a Panerai carbotech, the carbon fiber one. And I was like, yo bro, that watch is cool. And we started talking about watches blah, and like 15 minutes goes by and he's like, do you know who I am? And I was like, no, I was like John. And he's like do you know who I am and I was like no I was like John and he's like Sal Farsilla and I was like oh you probably hate me and he's like no actually you helped our brand and I was like I love that I love that and he's like let me get your number and we

talked about you guys know what Microtech is hmm it's like a knife company okay it's very niche like super niche and it somehow, like Sal knew that I was into microtechs, somehow they convinced microtech to do a collaboration with them, which microtech works with like nobody. They don't usually do this with brands. And they made all these custom microtech first form knives. And he's like, hey man, listen, give me your address. I want to send you a knife.

And I was like, OK. And in my mind, I was like, is this like a threat? You're sending me a knife, what's going on? With a finger. Like the horse head. No. So you stab yourself. So we have like a really cool conversation.

And I go home and he ends up, he sends me like, overnight a knife. And it was a really nice note in there. And then a few days later, Andy calls me and I had his number saved on my phone and I was like, Oh no. Do I pick up? Did you pick up? Yeah, of course. I picked up and we talked for like an hour and just like everything that we're saying here was sort of like a conversation. Like dude, that was hard. And he's like, yeah. And he, like, he watched my, he watches my stuff too.

He's like, dude, you do good work. Like it sucked. He's like, but, but we had to get through it. I was like, yeah. Says a lot about someone like that. Integrity, bro. Integrity. Yeah, that says a lot. So I'm assuming that you have a partnership with them now. Do you have a partner?

Oh, you don't have a sponsorship? No. Oh, you should have a sponsorship with them. I fuck with the brand. I don't need a sponsorship. I mean, yeah, OK. I like things that I like. Yeah, but I mean, it's like you also are running a business now

and taking on partnerships. You may as well fuck with a partner who you like and get paid to win win all the way like. Yeah, but I mean, it's like you also are running a business now and taking on partnerships. You may as well fuck with a partner who you like and get paid to win win all the way around. Yeah, yeah. But sometimes it's like, yo, man, that's my guy. I mean, yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, that matters more.

Yeah. But I post their shit all the time. And people are always, are you sponsored? Like, nah. I'm not. Which, I mean, again, just shows even more brilliance on Andy's part. I mean, look, he took it on the chain like that.

And then, look, you're doing all this free promo now for them too And not even have to pay which is like just might be a good guy, you know I mean the Andy's done so much. I misread him early, too He's done a lot for me early on early on in the on the podcast when it was right after shreds went down They were like the next brand that popped up. Yeah, and very similar affiliate marketing and so were So it's like I like I joke with them I'm like bro, you have a cult but it's like they have a crazy culture I went to summer smash party to do so cool

it's like it's the kind of place where I'm looking around and there's like Thousands of people there all sorts of shit going on. I'm like after this parking lot is cleared There's not gonna be a single fucking piece of trash in the ground. That's like the kind of people that they own. Like everybody is just like, bought in. On point. They don't want to fuck it up.

They don't want to have a bad reputation for the brand. Like they just care. Everybody is so into the brand. It's cool. Like, yeah, some people would look at it and be like, that's a cult. But it's like, nah, it's a culture. It's really good culture.

Yeah. And that's super hard to do, especially on a mass scale with a ton of fucking people. Yeah, because there's bad apples, but of course damn There's really it's really hard to find one there. It's really really really I know I miss read them because they came out right after shreds and they were the next big affiliate marketing Supplement brand right afterwards and then I had somebody who I knew who was saying like oh he's not that's the worst talking shit about him, not knowing who he was. And shame on me for assuming because later on,

and also listening to his stuff, we ended up connecting. And like I talked to him on a regular basis now and really like him and really like a lot of the stuff that he puts out. He does. And you could tell they've built an incredible culture and team there. And you're right, when you got thousands of people

technically that are working underneath you, it's like you can't control every behavior you're all doing. But what you can do as a leader is like, is respond, take it on the chin and be like, Hey, how do we keep this from happening next time? And keep it moving. Like that's how easy is it for people to be like, Oh, Oh, you know, we have thousands of people. So like, I wouldn't know. Yeah. He could have deflected. He could have totally deflected and been like, sorry, I can't control that we got thousand people fuck off kid Yeah, yeah, or just ignore it. Yeah, just fucking ignore. You could do that too I write it to people like on my page is like yeah

If you wait a week like nobody's gonna I'm I've done ten stories since then like of course people are gonna be talking about something Else but to address it and be like that is a problem. I should probably fix that. Yeah, awesome How'd you become a watch guy? Ah By the way, I was gonna call you out in the GMT when you said this, like, oh yeah, I still think of myself as poor or whatever. I was like, okay, guy. You saw that already. Yeah, I was nice about it.

I was just like, okay, yeah, as I rock my GMT, I'm just struggling away over here. So tell me about the watches. How did you become a watch guy? A friend of mine's a jeweler. So he always does like really good. Oh, okay. You know. Oh, you and I can talk later on this. I'm always looking for a good jeweler.

He's a very nice guy. I'll just say that. But I mean, so did you, cause not everybody's into like Rolexes and things like that. Like I have a total backstory on what made me fall in love with the brand. Do you have anything like that or like you just like, I like expensive watches. Like it just happened. I mean, you know Panerai you know those things you obviously knew the Sky Dweller right away so you have more than just a like nice watch. I only have two I have this GMT and then I have the Starbucks

okay and I got them as like important date like yeah with a milestone mine are all representative like milestone things in my life did you set a goal and then accomplish something? Yeah yeah just like small personal stuff that oh, come on Come on What is it like really lame or what? Tell me that tell me the accomplishments. What was the first one? No, I Really? Oh, don can't. Really? Don't get shy on me now.

It's stupid. I don't want to do it. Next topic. No, it's not. Hey, listen. What if it is stupid? What if he tells you, boy? It is not stupid.

You know what? I think that there's a lot of value. And people don't ask this. They assume. They see shit like that and they think superficial, this or that, but each one of mine represent something that I set a goal for and that nobody else knew about it. I didn't fucking talk about it, I don't share it.

Did people force you to say it on a podcast? No, nobody knows, these guys don't even know about it. We will later, no worries. We don't talk about it. No, no, he volunteerly says it sometimes on a podcast. Yeah, he does. We've said everything. So this is something that I, like, I

think that's a cool thing to do and to, you know, what, and it's not stupid if it's just cause it's might be to somebody else, a stupid goal. It's not a stupid goal. So, uh, the one was I had hit, I never had like a substance abuse problem, but I was eight years. I hadn't drank in eight years. Oh, that's, that's, that's stupid.

I know, bro. It's the other was a gift. So there's the, not a cool story. Oh, that's really stupid. I know, bro. The other was a gift. So there's the not a cool story. Yeah, that's great. That's a cool thing. Still do you not drink at all still? No, I haven't drank since 2014. Okay. Good for you. So now when you were 17 and kind of a shit butt, you were saying, right? You didn't use ship up, but I'm gonna throw it in there. That was a ship up. Okay, were you partying like crazy? A little bit, but not like a crazy way. Did you ever go down the drug route at all?

No. At all? No. Oh, so you haven't dabbled? No, my whole family is like addictive personality. So you were probably like fuck this shit. So you're like, I'll stay away. Yeah, it's like that, I don't know if you've ever seen that thing

where there's two people, one's like a super sober guy and the other's like an addict and don't know if you've ever seen that thing with two people one's like Super sober guy and the other's like an addict and they both asked them the same question Oh, and they're both for the same person except they both have the same answer like, you know, why are you the way you are? Oh, my dad was an addict I've never seen that. What did you time up? So it's like a meme There's two people and it's like why are you why why do you never want to you know? Do drugs rock or why are you addicted and both of them have the same answer like oh my dad Oh the same answer. Like, Oh, my dad. Oh, the same answer, but different story lines. Okay.

I get it. I mean, it's representative of like how you react and what your mindset is, is who you become. Sure. Some people are like, well, my dad was a fuck off addict, so I should be one. Or my dad was a fuck off addict, so I shouldn't be one. Yeah. Have you seen, um, cause I agree too, like, and I know that about my family.

Have you seen other things in your life where you have that addictive personality and so you- For sure, man. I mean, when I fucking do stories, it's like, that's all I think about. Like when I'm putting something together, like it's all I can think about. I can't sleep until like I know what I need to know.

Can you please get into journalism with all this other big stuff? I know, yeah, we need more of it. That's how we feel, bro. Hold on a second, John, this is a weird time. Are you, okay, you're looking at the world, you're seeing what's going on? It's weird. It's weird we feel, bro. Hold on a second, John. This is a weird time. Are you, okay, are you looking at the world? You're seeing what's going on? It's weird.

It's weird as fuck. Shit's getting crazy. What's real, what's true, yeah. And what is true, what is not true, media is completely flipped upside down. Fake news is real, like real, and I think conspiracy theorists now are like 10, oh. I'm 100% right now, I'm batting 100%.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, you listen to Andy's stuff, it's like, he'll say it, and then like three months later, it's like, he'll say it and then like three months later, it's like, damn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that wasn't in full at all. Maybe these skills and his drivers for something big like that, you know?

Yeah, I mean, I would love to. I would definitely love to. As long as I don't get whacked, you know? That's really the... Don't say that, dude. Come on. Yeah, yeah, don't say that, dude. They'll play this clip in three years and be like, damn, he knew.

Bro, we knew that would happen. They knew he was going to die. Is there any times you ever, because I mean, I feel like this, even like what we do, moments of getting exhausted with social media? Yeah, man. So I don't post on a schedule or time my stuff or even care about that. It's like when you feel like it. If I want to, I do. And if I don't, I don't post on a schedule or time my stuff or even care about that. It's like when you feel like it.

If I want to, I do. And if I don't, I don't. And if it's like 3 AM and I'm like, oh man, I should put this video out there, like I just do it. Yeah. So I do it to the point, like there will be like a week where I don't post and I get all these DMs like, are you dead? Did you get banned?

Why don't I see your stuff anymore? I'm like, chill. Do you intentionally take detox and stay off of it intentionally for periods of time? If I want to, like I'm not like tied to it. It's like I'm not a slave to it. If I want to do it and it's entertaining to me, I'm doing it. And if it's like I'm burned out on it, I'll take a few days. Do you have any practices for yourself? Because you work out, obviously that's a good health practice. Any others? Spiritual practice, meditation, do you like do any other hobbies?

I probably should, but I don't know. My friend's big into the meditating and ice baths and that shit. That means you'd have to bring up all that shit that you... I stayed with him in Austin for like three days. You buried all that stuff so good. I want to let that out man. He's like we're gonna do ice baths and yoga. That's like the midlife crisis. You got time for that. Just keep it inside for now. You use it for dead lifting and squatting right now. More watches. More dead lifts. Don't do that until your wife forces you.

Trust me. Well, I definitely would like to, I'm going to put it out there on air right now and we'll figure it out as we talk going forward. But I would like to do some sort of a collab with you. I really get a kick out of that. I feel like we haven't executed something like that. I know how easy it could be of just putting it out there. Like a toy drive. Yeah. Yeah. But I like, I would like

to do something with you that would go crazy. I'm in. Yeah. I'm so in. It's so easy. I committed like seven minutes of effort to it last year. And then like people, we put out a thing like that part. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, you're like, that's what's kept us from, honestly is because it's like, Oh, who's the manager? No Who's gonna drill this stuff? No, it's easy. If you're listening to this and you have some amount of a following, you can do this. You make a video, you give an address, make sure it's not your address.

Like, what's the address of this place? No. And then you put in a thing like, hey, volunteers to come and rap on this day, like a couple days before the event, and feed them, and people are happy to come and rap all the fucking gifts and then you have To find outreach groups like a women's shelter Yeah, that would be the hardest I would think is actually finding the people to give the gifts to that

So I my girlfriend crushed this okay, because I was like we had thousands of toys and I was like babe Who's gonna come I was gonna put up flyers Which was not gonna work and she got on all these like mothers groups and on Facebook and was like posting it everywhere. And those people that were like in shelters and stuff would share it with others. And so it like just spread all crazy and just like random people were showing up

that she never even spoke to. Okay, yeah, I'd like to combine forces. I know we could do it by ourselves, but it'd be kind of fun to do it together and just see what we could do. I'm so in, bro. Yeah, okay. I'm so in for that. Okay, cool, all right, cool.

Well, then when we get off air, we'll plan that, but it's good, dude. Yeah. Glad to finally have you in person. Same. Awesome. Appreciate you coming on. You're doing the Lord's work. Keep it up.

That's it. The watchdog. Stay strong, brother. Yeah, yeah. That's it. Good shit. We'll look out for you. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump.

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