Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2494: Three Reasons Why Staying In Shape Is Easier Than Getting Into Shape (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: December 21, 2024

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Three reasons why staying in shape is easier than getting into shape. (2:09) The first lesson in understanding women. (21:27) The cost of temptation and fame. (23:20) Challenging carbon dating. (35:13) One of the BIGGEST investments in improving your sleep. (40:21) Free advertising. (41:37) The dangerous sides of conservatism. (45:00) Give the gift of health this holiday season. (50:24) Shout out to Neckzilla! (51:57) #ListenerLive question #1 – Is it normal that I found when I dropped my steps 10k per day, lowered my training to 4 Upper/Lower days from 7 days, and increased food my hunger increased? (54:41) #ListenerLive question #2 – When do you have hard conversations with people about their goals and that they have to take it into their own hands? (1:07:51) #ListenerLive question #3 – Is there something that you had other than MAPS 15 that you would suggest running in the meantime because part of the reason I need the lifts is for my sanity? (1:22:05) #ListenerLive question #4 – I sit all day at a desk job, but I will walk 1-2 miles before I lift in the morning and an additional 2-3 miles, sometimes walking/running in the evening. I average 12-17k steps a day, weekends sometimes more. Is this too much? Am I affecting my gains? (1:30:52) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Plunge for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump Listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP at checkout for $150 off your order. ** Visit Eight Sleep for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump Listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP to get $350 off Pod 4 Ultra. Currently, it ships to the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Europe, and Australia. ** Limited Launch Promotion: MAPS 15 Performance public launch price: $87! ** Code 15PLAUNCH for $20 OFF. Free Bonuses: 30-Day Landmine Workout + 7-Day Overtraining Rescue Guide. ** December Promotion: MAPS Aesthetic | MAPS Symmetry 50% off! ** Code DECEMBER50 at checkout ** How Much Training is Necessary to Maintain Strength and Muscle? Building Muscle with Adam Schafer – Mind Pump TV Lily Phillips who slept with 100 men in a day reveals real reason she did it Flintstone facts? 41 percent of Americans say people and dinosaurs co-existed Proposed California law would require warning labels on social media Rubiel Mosquera: What You Need to Know about Neckzilla Get your free Sample Pack with any “drink mix” purchase! Also try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water: Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump Mind Pump #2172: Five Commandments For Successful Personal Trainers Train the Trainer Webinar Series Online Personal Training Course | Mind Pump Fitness Coaching Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Mike Matthews (@muscleforlifefitness) Instagram Patrick Bet-David (@patrickbetdavid) Instagram Rubiel Mosquera (@neckzilla.official) Instagram Christina Hathaway (@mindsetofmattercoaching) Instagram Jordan Shallow D.C (@the_muscle_doc) Instagram  

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Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Right in today's episode we answered live caller's questions. People called in, we got to help them out on air, but this was after our intro. Today's intro is 53 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness and current events. We bring up scientific studies, talk about our family lives. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like

this one, email us your question at live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. Our first one is Plunge. This is cold water therapy for your home. It's filtered. It's a beautiful tub. You fill it once, you leave it alone. It's ready to go. Jump in pre-workout. That's the best way to use it, but you can actually use it throughout the day. Boosts your immune system, reduces inflammation, gives you those feel use it throughout the day boosts your immune system reduces inflammation Gives you those feel-good neuro chemicals anyway go check them out yourself a discount go to plunge.com Use the code mind pump get $150 off this episode is also brought to you by eight sleep

This is the world's most sophisticated sleep system controls the temperature of your bed monitors your sleep and and adjust with AI technology. And if you go to 8sleep.com forward slash mind pump and you use the code mind pump, you can get up to $350 off. Also, two days left for our brand new MAPS 15 Performance launch. Workout 15 minutes a day, build muscle, burn body fat,

with an athletic minded workout program. Get $20 off the initial price with the code 15PLaunch. You also get two free eBooks. You get a free workout program, a landmine workout program that's 30 days long. That's included. And you get a seven day overtraining rescue guide. That's also included for free.

If you're interested, here's what you do. Go to 15Per.com, use the code 15plaunch. That gets you $20 off, plus the 30 day landmine workout, plus the seven day overtraining rescue guide. Go check it out. Getting in shape, building muscle, looking great. It's definitely difficult, but here's the good news. Staying in shape can actually be a lot easier.

It's totally true. There's three reasons why staying in shape is far easier than getting into shape. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I wanna start a movement. It's like getting fit when you're older

or being fit when you're older is easier. I wanna start saying something that comes off controversial. Instead of it being always negative, like I'm getting older. Because it's not fucking true. No. I mean, if you've never worked out in your life and you get started at 50 years old, of course it's harder.

Right. Right? Than it would have been if you started at 20 years old. But that's not to say that your body won't respond. That's right. Also you get older. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

But if you have, and I'm not even pointing out the fitness fanatic, but if you were somebody who sporadically, more consistently than not, but sporadically lifted weights through your teenage, young 20s and 30s. If you've built any muscle. That's right. Staying fit and being fit as you age, as you get older is easier. It is not harder.

The data on this now is clear. We witnessed this, okay, managing gems and training clients and training trainers and coaches. We saw this, right? When you train that client, you had that member that had been consistent for years and years and years and they'd come in, they're in their 60s or 70s, and you'd watch them work out, they're consistent, but like, man, that person looks incredibly fit. Or you have that relative that had developed muscles from whatever job they did for years and years, but they stopped.

Why does my uncle still have massive calves? He stopped being a mail carrier decades ago or whatever, or my other uncle who was a mechanic, his forearms are still, like, what's going on? Well, the data on this is now pretty clear. The amount of training volume that is required to keep muscle is significantly lower than is required to build that muscle.

Some studies show like one ninth the volume, one ninth. Other studies show something like one third or one fifth. Nonetheless, it's significantly less. In other words, if you work out three days a week consistently and gain 10 pounds of muscle and then you're like, you know, I just wanna keep 10 pounds of muscle, one day a week we'll do it. In other words, it's pivotable.

No, stop. You said that a few times in the last episode. I didn't say anything to you. Somebody needs to say something. No, no. At least there's somebody else on here who wants to. I don't say anything to you. Somebody needs to say something. No, no. Call me out. At least there's somebody else on here who wants to talk. I left it there.

Captain Tongue-Tie over here. No, but it's blended in with the next word. That's what I do. Last, so I'll use another data to kind of support this. There is a measurable amount of muscle loss that happens as people age when they're sedentary. So when you're sedentary, I think it's after the age of 30, for every decade you lose like five to 10%

of your muscle mass or something like that. I don't remember the exact number, but it's a measurable amount and it compounds. The amount of strength training that is required to just stop that, you're not trying to build muscle, you just want to stop the muscle loss that happens with getting older. It's something like one workout every two weeks.

Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. So if you do the average person and they're like, look, I don't want, I don't care about being fit. I really don't care about, you know, building muscle, burning body fat. I just don't want to lose muscle as I get older. I just don't want to lose muscle as I get in my

forties, fifties, sixties and seventies. They can literally work out one day every two weeks or so, and they'll stop that from happening. That's how amazing it is, or at least the effects and benefits of strength training. That's not to say you won't lack the health benefits. It's healthy to move every single day. So I'm not saying that it's ideal,

but to keep some of these results requires so much less and the number one reason is it just takes less volume, way less volume. I'm thinking about this as my youngest is really getting into fitness and wanting to lift with me now. And it's like, I have to introduce the fundamentals and just stick with the fundamentals,

sharpen the fundamentals and not get overzealous. I'm like, I get excited. I'm like, oh, maybe I'll teach him this. I'm like, no, three things and we're just sticking with that and we're going to try and sharpen and refine that because that's going to carry him well into our age and beyond. Yeah. And another reason why this is important to communicate is oftentimes the reason why people completely stop is because they don't have they don't have the time or maybe

the motivation to maintain what they were doing. So for them in their mind it's like well if I can't do my full workouts a waste of time right? Like I was working out four days a week like is it worth it to go in one day a week? I'm just gonna not go. No no it's still worth it. You can keep what you built with so much less volume that a little bit goes a long way. And that's the number one reason why. This is our fault. I really think that the, and I mean that by trainers,

coaches, the fitness industry as a whole, we really have overcomplicated what you need to do to be healthy and fit. And it turned into this competitive who knows more, who's read the latest studies, who's got the more sophisticated programming and diet routine. And I think that we have overwhelmed the general population.

Sure, we might have helped the fitness fanatic gain the competitive edge on how to get a percent more shredded or get a little bit more out of their programming or whatever, but the average person that looks at, as you know, exercise or training in the gym is like another job or something they are not interested in doing whatsoever. But they just wanna improve the quality of life.

Yeah, they just wanna be healthy. They wanna live long and healthy and capable to do what they like to do and that doesn't include going to the gym and lifting weights every day. And so we've turned it into an either or. Either you buy in to this or this isn't for you or it's just like, no, there is actually little things that you can do that can dramatically improve your health and strength. And to your point, and I think about this all the time with Max, obviously I'm not there yet where we are doing anything,

but I've thought about what would that look like when I introduce to it, and I really think that's all I'm gonna do is I'm gonna pick a couple movements, the deadlift or the squat, and that's all I'm gonna teach. I'm just gonna teach that for years years squat and press yeah just like for like just keep working on the nuances of it and and and treat it like I'm teaching

him a sport or an art form of something and just get him proficient at that movement and if I can lay that foundation in his early years when he gets to the age where he wants to make change for athletics or he wants to change for his body, he wants his body to, then he'll have that as a found, and he'll be able to build on that, but that by itself will do so much. It's funny too, because with other sports,

you don't necessarily hear that. Good coaches don't, they know how to communicate it properly. In other words, you go to learn how to box. How many punches are there in boxes? A jab, there's a straight, there's a hook, there's a uppercut, there's four. So is the coach like, well, we've already learned those four yesterday, let's learn like,

10 other weird, no, no, you're mastering those four. So what you're saying is totally true. Like master a few lifts. And also like, the other part of this is you have a routine so if you've been going to the gym four days a week and let's say you spend an hour in the gym or three days a week you spend an hour in the gym you don't have as much time just go in there and do a little bit just go in there and do a little bit and you would be surprised how easily how easy it is to maintain

strength and muscle it's very easy to maintain once you've built it. So keep the routine up. I used to tell my clients this all the time, just show up, do 10 minutes, 15 minutes and get out. Like is that really worth it? Yes. And again the data supports this. This isn't just what we saw as trainers. The data on this is actually quite clear. A little bit doesn't just go a long way. It's enough. It's enough to keep what you built. And allow the seasons of your life to dictate your approach of volume and intensity. Meaning there's going to come times when you're on vacation or you have three months of work being slower than other parts of the work season or you're going to have time when the kids go off

to school and you're no longer having to watch them all day. Like, let those periods of time, like, oh, I'm going to sprint right now. This is a great time. I've got the next three months, kids are in school or I've got this thing going, or oh, that big huge project I was doing at work is now done and now I'm back to kind of coasting or easier type of schedule. Hey, now I can pick up the volume. Now I can pick up the intensity of my training and really pile on and try to make aggressive moves forward and then scale back when you get crazy again. We really over complicate what it needs to be and what it looks like. It's so far more important to just consistently do something, even if it's one exercise, it's one thing. Just continuing, and I love the analogy

or comparison to investing. Because you don't always have to go put $100,000 in the investment. Sometimes you throw 50 bucks there. I love that analogy because everybody's seeing those charts where they're like, if you buy a coffee every day, well if you took that money and put it into this

at the age of 20, by the time you're 50 because of compounding interest, you know you have a million dollars and people are like how's that possible? Well it's compounding interest is how it's possible. Or the charts that show if you would have just started this this little bit when you were 15 or 20 and then 30 and then 40 and 50 where it's at. And that's how exercise works as well. Yes. Totally. The last point I'll make is that getting back into shape from a muscle perspective is far easier because of something called muscle memory.

There are changes that happen to your muscle on an epigenetic level that don't go away when you stop exercising. So yes, you build muscle and get stronger when you exercise. And yes, you lose muscle and get weaker when you stop, but something sticks around. There are things that happen to the muscle epigenetically that stay that allow you to rebuild that muscle again far faster the second time around. This isn't an evolutionary adaptation system that you're born with. It's called muscle memory, you can look it up, and it's not the kind of muscle memory

that helps you remember a movement, it's the muscle memory that allows you to rebuild lost muscle. And it's insanely effective. You know, if it took you a year to gain 15 pounds of muscle and then you lost it all, you could gain that 15 pounds back in a couple months. A couple months? A couple weeks, bro. Yeah. I mean, I know we've been touting this for a long time but I feel so I'm so much more passionate about it after going through this because I honestly didn't know. I mean I know I know the power of muscle, but I didn't have a number to put to it. I couldn't I couldn't tell you like oh you could do that in a few weeks, but it was very surprising to me what little I had to do to stimulate that growth back. Like it was not

amazing. It was like it was the I was only doing two exercises a day for like five days a week, sometimes four days a week. It was, and I wasn't training to failure. I wasn't like, the intensity wasn't even there. It was just like going back. The blueprint was already there. Yes, my body wanted to put that muscle back on by feeding it properly and stimulating it.

It goes, oh yeah, we remember this. Yeah. And quickly it came back. And I know the central nervous system has to play a factor in that as well. Cause if you think about skills, you've learned how to ride a bike, how to play piano, how to do it, like, you know, you're literally teaching all these motor movements and you're, you're mapping this out and you're refining it and you're improving it. Uh, and then you step away from it.

It's not like that data is just gone, you can tap back into it. Learn how to play the piano, don't play it for years and years and years, relearn how to play it so much faster. Yes. Look at Mike Tyson, doesn't look like he forgot how to throw a punch.

No. Guy's almost 60 years old, off of fighting for a very, very long time, quickly get right back into it. Now, granted, his stamina, his endurance. Yeah, that's not to say you're not good. He's not the same 19-year-old killer he was. There are benefits.

But I'll tell you right now, he killed me in that, he still killed me, killed 99% of the people out there. Yeah, well, let's put it this way, he's far better than he would have been had he never done it. Right. And so now he's getting back, right? I mean, speaking of which, we're now, I think, three

days left for the Maths 15 performance launch. I'm staring at your hat. Did you make that for that? Yeah. Did you know you did that? Well, no, this was for the advanced logo, but it's similar. I wore it in honor of it. Oh, there it is. I didn't realize that. I didn't tell you we were podcasting right now, and I'm like, wait a second. It's our logo.

It's made for me. So we created this program because the original Mass 15 was so popular and people just keep coming back to it, so we made a performance version of it, which is the athletic minimum. But where I was going with this little segue is what is included with this is the seven day overtraining rescue guide.

I feel that this guide, which you get it for free with the launch with the massive team, but later on people probably have to buy it. The reason why I'm bringing this up is I feel like this guide is gonna be so valuable for so many people. For sure. Because all of us, if you're consistent with working out, at some point you start to feel burnt out

because you overdid it. It's inevitable. Maybe sleep isn't good, things are challenging. And oftentimes the recommendation is to cut way back or to take a week off, which is good recommendation. There's nothing wrong with that, it's great. But we've never put anything out that was structured. Well, what can I do for seven days

to accelerate the recovery process? Are there practices with diet, sleep, sunlight, hot, cold contrast, supplementation, water, that I can do over the next seven days that will ramp up my body's ability to recover and adapt so I can get back to what I love doing. And that's what we did with this. It's literally a seven day, like day one do this,

day two do this, all the way up to day seven, and then boom. This reminds me of when we first wrote Symmetry, and it was like that kind of aha moment for us. Yeah, because we, you know, every week we answer how many live callers do we normally do, eight to 12 or whatever like that, a week where we have live callers calling in

and we give them the same advice. Yeah, for the longest time we were giving the unilateral advice to people, right, who try imbalances, imbalances, what do I do left to right discrepancy? Where do I get it? Yeah, and so we would prescribe unilateral advice to people, right? Who try imbalances, imbalances, what do I do left to right discrepancy? Where do I get it? Yeah, and so we would prescribe unilateral training, yet we had nothing specific to that.

It was like kind of a ah-ha-duh moment. I feel the same way with the recovery guide. It's just like, how many times do we look at, and we know as soon as we're reading the question, that person's on there and we're like, oh yeah, this person's overdoing it. They need to scale back and it's like, we always have to give this protocol. It's like, why haven't we written something like that?

There are some things in there that I've done myself. I've done all the things that are in the, uh, all the recommendations in there on myself and on clients. It's all backed by data and of course, anecdote through training clients. But there's one thing in there in particular that I learned as a kid from, uh, some of the experienced people in the gym that I worked out in. So when I was a kid from some of the experienced people in the gym that I worked out in. So when I was a kid, I started working out at 14.

By the time I was 15, I'm in gyms. I used to ride my bike through a gym. And then from then on, I was always in gyms. And I was blessed that a couple times I got mentored by older experienced lifters in the gym. And what I mean by mentored is I would see them often and then they'd give me advice. And because they were jacked, they took their advice. That's for sure.

When you're a 15 year kid. This still happens by the way. It's pretty funny. Yeah, and I would take their advice. And I remember I got really sore from a workout once because they used to overdo it all the time and some things don't change, right? But I overdid it a lot when I was a kid.

And you could see when I'd get up from the bench, I'd walk real funny. And so there was this older guy that used to lift in there. He's probably 30, I say older, but you know when you're 16, a 30 year old's like ancient. But he was a super jack dude, and he's laughing. He's like, why are you walking that way? And I'm like, oh, hammer my legs or whatever.

He goes, you want to recover faster? I said, yeah, and he goes, take a shower, put really, really hot water on your legs, do that for, like as hot as you can tolerate, and then do that for 30 seconds, and then go to freezing cold water for 30 seconds, and then do 30 seconds of hot water, then 30 seconds of cold water, back and forth.

And the way he explained it is the hot water opens up the blood vessels, encourages blood flow. Cold water constricts them, squeezes everything out. So it's like causing the blood and the fluids to pump in and out of the muscle. And this is something that I've done ever since because it works remarkably well at reducing soreness. Like, you do this, if you have like a muscle

that's hammered and you do this in the shower and you go through five or six cycles of it, it will reduce your soreness by like 50 to 70%. I remember I came out of the shower going like, I barely feel sore anymore. That's one of the things that is in the guy. I think one of the more pivotal things that I went through was.

Pivotal, good job Adam. Gotcha. That I went through was, I used to think that like rest, recovery, don't move, and not understanding how powerful, you know, like mobility and movement to facilitate recovery and speed that up was. And so that was the mistake I think I made for a lot of times. I'd hammer it so hard until it was so sore. You go sit on the couch. Yeah. And then it was just like,

rest, rest and eat calories. You know what I'm saying? That was, yeah, exactly. That was the thought process for me for recovery. And I think learning how mobility and movement, not intense movement or more training, lifting heavy weights, but movement would facilitate more oxygen, more blood for more nutrients to the area that's over trained and then facilitate faster recovery.

100% movement, hot cold contrast, fluids, sunlight, like it have all been shown to kind of accelerate that adaptation. I'll use the word adaptation because recovery's healing, but it also helps with adaptation. And speaking of which with hot and cold, if you have a cold plunge, it's so powerful to go from a sauna to a cold plunge and back, or hot shower, cold plunge and back.

What I'm talking about in in terms of facilitating recovery, it is remarkably effective. I gotta get that set up at my house. I've done that so many times at some of those spas. I love it, it's exhilarating. It's, oh, and then you leave and you're high for the whole day. Oh yeah, it totally gives you an energy bump.

Yeah, no, so our partners plunge, advocate for it, for pain and for recovery Where you go in the freezing and then you go in the sauna and then freezing and then you go in the sauna It's like one of my favorite, you know, the first time I did that was at what's that place that you recommend to us? I know I was trying to think of that. That's a starts the refuge refuge. Oh, yeah Yeah, oh, I love it and they have the cold they have their cold dip, which is freezing I wish we'd get a partnership with them. I know. You can walk in the cold little pool. I mean, having the plunge is like having your own

in the house, but the refuge is like a resort, right? So you get a little bit, there's a massage therapist there too, so it's a little bit. A little thing. I gotta tell you guys this morning, my two-year-old Dahlia, she wakes up, and so her, you know, I have a four-year-old, I have my two-year-old, and they're the best of friends.

Sometimes they fight or whatever. But my two year old has figured out how to be like, how to be like stuck up to her older brother and get him to chase her, like to want her affection. Because he'll tease her, he'll take her toy, make her cry. Well this morning he did something to her so she's like, I'm just going to be mad at him, right? So, so, so he was pissed off. I don't remember what he did. did something to her got her upset got them

to chill out so then he went up to her to repair and my wife does a really good job of communicating grace and repair and all that stuff so he goes up to her and he goes you know I'm sorry Dahlia and usually she'll be like you know okay and she calls him Sasa she didn't say his full name she says Sasa and she gives him a hug well this time she goes no and he looks at me like like what do do? I don't think she's ready. And he's like, like panicking. He walks up to her like, can I hug you? No. And she walks away and he's like, what do I do? I'm like, you gotta give her time bro, you can't force it. His first lesson in understanding women.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking all the time. I was trying to help him out like, listen, the more you chase him, the more angry she is. This never ends, son. So I go up to him, I'm like, I try to coach him, you know, I'm like, listen, she's not ready, so you gotta be okay with that. Because she's like, started crying, she doesn't love me. She doesn't, no, no, no, she's fine.

Just waits until she tells you, then she changes her mind in five minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It gets harder. I said, if you keep chasing her, she's gonna keep. Get way more complex. I said, listen, here's her, she's gonna keep. It's way more complex. I said, listen, here's what you do. Just act nice around her and just be cool

and eventually she'll come over to you. But he didn't want to hear it. He was the whole day, the whole morning, he's chasing her. Just give me a hug, dog. I go, no. Just give me a hug. No.

She's like, cause she sucks her thumb, so she pulls her thumb out. She looks at him and she pulls it out and she goes, no. She puts it back in and walks away. He's like devastated. No. Oh my God. She doesn't love me. It's out and she goes, no, she puts it back in and walks away. He's like devastated, no, she doesn't love me. I know, it's hilarious. Dude, something sad I gotta share with you guys.

Well, I don't know if you guys have seen it on social media. Have you seen that OnlyFansGirl controversy thing that's going around? The OnlyFansGirl. There was this girl, oh man, it's so sad, dude. Not the ladies. Oh, it's so crushingly sad to see somebody do this themselves

and then the comments afterwards that are piling on. So there's this, and it's all over social media right now, so there was this young woman, Lily Phillips I think is her name, who she did some, she's an OnlyFans person or whatever, and she did this challenge where she was gonna sleep with 100 men in 24 hours. I think I heard this. Oh my God. So in her London apartment, she allowed some of her fans, and I don't know how they qualified,

I don't really look into it, I just, obviously I saw this after the fact because of what happened. So she had, I guess her top fans sign up and they got to all have sex with her for five minutes, so 100 men in 24 hours. And there's interviews of her talking about it, leading up to whatever. Then afterwards they interview her and this girl, man, I feel so, like she comes out and

you could tell she's like psychologically trying to, she's trying to kind of come to terms with what she just did and what's happened. And she's like, you know, I know there were 100 men and I know they're there because it's recorded. She's like, I only remember like five or 10 of them. I mean, she's explaining severe disassociation. She's explaining. I would imagine you would have to have that to do that.

Like a severe disassociation, right? You couldn't be present in that. She's like, it's not for, she's, and she, like, I don't recommend it to anyone, and in her eyes, she could tell she's trying not to cry and she looks traumatized. And then later she cries. And that's the video people are sharing.

And the reason why I feel terrible, first of all, poor girl made this stupid decision, now has to deal with this trauma that she did to herself for fame or whatever, that's not worth it. The comments afterwards, you know? People are talking about her trauma, what she did to herself, this is what she gets, what she thinks she would happen or whatever.

If her dad loved her, she wouldn't have done this. Oh, it's so bad, dude. It's so bad. Was it like a money grab that she charged big money for? And just she made a ton of money in that 24 hours hours. Apparently and the thing that's going viral is her post interview where you could see the trauma on her look the blank look on her face and her trying to talk through what the experience was and she's clearly describing again disassociation describing that she just traumatized

herself severely through the whole process. She was talking about how some of the men, she's like, you know, it was really hard. Some of them would try to talk to me and they would say, you know, I only had three minutes, but I'm supposed to get five minutes. And then she starts choking up like she's going to cry and it's like, wow, poor girl, man. What did she do? What did she do to herself? And what gets glamorized in this crazy world? Well the the amount of and how some people think it's empowering what the hell you mount of money that's flowing through only fans right now is Insane they compared it to I think I shared this the more than the NBA. You said yes

They compared the amount of money that's going through only fans is our money isn't everything People need to understand this. What do you think's gonna happen? What's crazy? If you make millions of dollars basically objectifying yourself. What do you think's gonna happen? You'll be happy? Well, it's... You're not gonna be happy. What's crazy to me is the power of the free market in this situation because the NBA is propped up by television and has been around for decades and I mean there's a huge effort for it to be as big as it is, right? Huge effort.

OnlyFans is literally word of mouth. I mean, there's nobody, I mean, maybe you see some billboards or some Instagram ads. I don't know, I don't see people advertising the company or the business. Literally word of mouth has grown that thing to be this trillion dollar empire already that is wild That is wild and I think that your your top creators on there are

producing more revenue Then then like an NBA but think of the mental crazy the mental gymnastics And how you have to twist yourself to be an only fans person and then to be a person that Pays for that and does that also but more so for the person doing I mean, do you think it's all bad? Why what's the good? Well, I mean, what's the good? Yeah, do you think that is I mean the good could be that somebody? Some somebody who lives in a rural area could create a following of people that are willing to pay them for their skills.

I mean, that's all bad? Yeah, we live in America. You can make money a lot of different ways. And yeah, you might have a better chance of being a millionaire if you're attractive and you have some whatever on OnlyFans. But what do you want all that money for? To be happy.

It's not gonna make you happy. The data 100% supports this by the way. There's no good for, this is one of the worst. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see how, I mean I'm not on there so I don't know enough about it, but I know that the platform isn't just used for sexual content. Oh, I don't know, I thought you were referring

to just the sexual stuff. No, no, no, that's my point. You think it's all bad. Yeah, like there's, and my point is that like, there's people that are are paying for access to somebody who is on there And you and they could be in rural, Indiana and because of that they now could build a livelihood Out there. It depends what they're offering them would make yeah, that was my point Is that is it all bad? Like I don't I don't think it's all bad. I definitely think a big portion of it. I think the sex part is what sells.

That's the money. Didn't they say for a second they were going to ban it and then they quit the reverse? Yeah, exactly. When they were trying to go public, they were talking about trying to make... I think that's just a publicity stunt. It could have been. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That could have been actually. Thought it would been in a brilliant way to market it like that But yeah, I don't know. I don't know where it's I mean and is it it's up to us as parents, right?

Like that's it. That's my job is to make sure that your son or daughter doesn't end up on To me it really is just it's the modern-day stripper comment. It's interesting Yeah, right old joke the old adage of you know, your one job as a dad is to keep your daughter off the pole. Yeah. It's a place that is more than one job. I mean, it's way more than that. Right, right. But I mean, it, it, it simplifies. It's like, you know, your one thing is to, to, you know, love your daughter, love your, your child enough to where they, that's not an, an idea. You know, it sucks because the world places certain things, like it's not that money isn't important,

but it places it in the wrong order of how important it is. And so if you talk to the average person about getting rich or getting lots of money, they give it more value than it actually has. To the point where, hey, how much would someone have to pay you to do what? How many times have you heard that, right? Would you do this for a billion dollars?

And everyone's like, yeah, I would. It's not going to give you what you think it will. So people are selling their souls for fame and money. For fame and money, they're selling their souls and they're coming back and finding out the hard way. It's a constant temptation you know. I'll give you a great example. How we glorify celebrities and musicians who commit suicide in their 20s as great artists. This great like Marilyn Monroe, she's my icon, you know, Kurt Cobainain icon So tormented they killed themselves. Yeah, why are we why are we looking at them? Like like people we should idolize We should actually look them as examples of how how those things are not worth value

We're drawn. We're drawn. Yeah, the you can remove the person from the art That's the hard part, right? We're drawn we're drawn to as humans to see this this expression of these capabilities that they have, right? Like the, use the art, it's what Kurt Cobain could do, right, with the guitar and on the microphone. It's what John Morant can do with a basketball on the court, right? It's like, it's not, unfortunately,

it's not about their character, but we're drawn to that. But have you noticed a lot of them, oftentimes the ones that have a tragic ending are iconicized higher or more than other artists? Sure, sure. That's crazy. It's weird. I think the faster and the higher you rise,

the bigger the fall and the quicker the drop off. Yeah, the temptation for all that craziness is so high. Because how quickly, when you're, when you're somebody, Marilyn Monroe example, those people that you're saying, like they reach a level of access and success and money and power so much faster than anybody else. Yeah. And, and, and then you get all of it and then you have this crazy, like, Oh my God, this is interesting. Cause I mean, don't you feel like it's shifting a bit in terms of because this the celebrity itself is losing their grip with

like influence in terms of over the traditional celebrity who was that like rise to fame and like Excess and everything was promoted excess, but I just feel like I mean media had a huge hand in that But I feel like it's exactly the same, it's just now social media has changed. I mean as far as that's concerned I agree. The medium has just changed,

and maybe arguably there's more of them, right? I mean, yeah YouTube is, the new YouTube star is crazy. Let's be brutally honest, let's be brutally honest. Imagine had we started Mind Pump at 20 and achieved the level of success we did in our mid 20s. Yeah, I wouldn't have been ready for it. Yeah, we talk about that a lot. We would've been crazy. Oh, it would've been not good. It would've lasted that for sure. That's the scary part is that you would have

thought it was all at that time. Oh yeah. You would have been soaking it all up thinking it is the best. And it would have turned out all bad. There just need to be competitive ways to get to the success and And I think it's just not portrayed enough. I think what's not portrayed enough is what real success is. This is why the parenting and the leadership part is so important. Because there's nothing you, like let's say, let's take your example you're using with us in our 20s.

Like there's nothing that you technically are going to say that would have convinced me that I don't want it or I don't like it. But if I had good mentors, a good father telling me, then as soon as the remorse or the depression or anything started to creep in, you'd have that person that was telling you, had already told you, that you could either turn to

or you go like, oh fuck, my dad told me this is how I was gonna feel. And so maybe he was right this whole time. And then you can make a quick pivot. I think what happens is so many of these kids, celebrities or people that get that don't have someone per se like that or they didn't have a good father figure and you know that and then they have this massive rise. They keep chasing and of course their peers are cheering them on. Oh yeah, fuck a hundred dudes. that'd be

crazy. You'll make fucking two million dollars in a day. Like that's nuts. Like you know they're cheering them on to do it. They're not telling them like, yeah you probably don't want to do that. You know, you're going to feel this way and I mean I'm assuming that they don't have that. And I imagine that if you have a good person like that in your life that even if you choose to go figure it out for yourself and you still go that path I feel like there's hope for you. You know it just goes to show the broken the world is it's like it's even like this with fitness how happy people think they will be when they get six-pack abs. If I looked like that I'm gonna be so happy. No you won't and there's data to support you won't.

You actually won't, your happiness won't improve. You'll probably actually be less happy chasing that very difficult thing of getting the six pack abs or whatever. But what's advertised and what we believe is just, God, again. Completely different topic, but on what we believe, 40% of people, according to this poll,

believe that we existed at the same time as dinosaurs. I don't know if you knew that. Wait, wait, say that again? 40% of people? 40% of people that filled out this survey, I don't know where it was, but believed that we existed at the same time as dinosaurs. And so here's one food for thought. Have you seen Gobekli Tepe? Yes. I was just going to say this.

So there's etched carvings of actual brontosaurus. Oh, I've went next to human etch it. Yeah, and like little raptor and like, it's interesting because that, they're finding that actually predates a lot of these ancient civilizations before that, like even Egypt. And so it's just kind of an interesting thought, is like, do we really think? Because it's always been told to us that- It's carbon dating, Adam.

Yeah, they were here before us, right? I know, have you seen those etchings? There's like stegosaurus, there's like brontosaurus, like clearly, and it's walking with humans. It's like, how do they know? How are they gonna come up with that randomly? I showed you one today of an Egyptian hieroglyphic, and it's like an Egyptian god with an erection,

and it shows sperm cells. Yeah. Sperm cells, like how could they know it's sperm cells? How do they even know that? How do they show sperm cells? They etched it in a little tail look up Egyptian Hieroglyphs wild sperm cells like how would they know what without a microscope?

How would they know what sperm cells look like and it's distinctly a sperm cell and it's literally coming out of the dudes erect I mean, so, you know that they're making the connection. It's like a accidental like oh, it could be a man. We studied this Good five minutes. Yeah, and there's no way somebody's trolling here and they like somebody who just like 50 years ago went over and threw that. So it's just etching it a little. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you got you.

You're throwing me off. Just to throw you off the trail. It's an ancient justice. Yeah, yeah. I would do that. Put a penis here and etch it in. I know, it's pretty wild. Sprinkle some old carbon on it,

throw you guys really off. This is a million years old. I love it, because they're always like, this is the fertility god. You know, he's always a boner. It's huge. What is that? He's always got this crazy looking.

Huge, and he's just sitting there like, yeah. Yeah. Like, that guy rocks. Wasn't that that big ancient, like, it's like on a hill or something, you can't see it unless you're from a plane. Oh yeah, yeah. It's like a view of the thing.

That was on that Graham Hancock one that Jesse and I were gonna watch. I know, that's funny. That's the fun side of history, I think. Ancient teenagers, you know what I mean? Yeah. They drew this on the side of a hill. We were juvenile even back then, that's the thing.

Did you find it, Doug? Yeah, I'm looking for it. I did. I mean, I have something that was actually kind of. I got it here. Oh, let's see it, Doug. No, no, it's legit. Watch this. I mean, carbon data, Adam, to cross check us, but.

There it is. There it is. Look at that. Oh, wow, that's okay. Look, that's a sperm cell. There's a, you recognize the thing on the side there, Adam? Yeah, it's. Look at that. Oh wow, that's okay. Look, that's a sperm cell. There's a, you recognize the thing on the side there, Adam? Yeah, it's. Yeah, yeah, it's.

Look at that. Interesting. Isn't that weird? It's a penis. How did they know? And he's circumcised. Yeah. Well, I mean.

Maybe it's, I don't think so. Maybe not, actually. Maybe it could be extended. I can't tell. That's what happens. I don't know if anyone taught you that. Stretched out. If you ever taught you what happens, Adam. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

With that situation. And there's an eyeball looking at the whole thing, so. And then there's this convex lens. What is the interpretation? Oh, what do you mean? What do you mean? It's semen in a sperm cell, and the convex lens. Like they're saying it's a magnifying.

Holy shit, it's like an eye looking through a convex lens to see the sperm cell. Shut up. What if they had a magnifying? What is, yeah, is that the, is that what? Bro, you can't, it's a sperm cell. How do you see that with, you need a microscope. You can't.

What, what, what is the interpretation of it? Is it got an interpretation? That's the inter, what do you mean? You can't see what it is? Okay, just a wrecked penis, a sperm cell, that's the interpretation. They don't know. They, they, that's the, that's the big mystery. Yeah, that's what I'm asking.

It's like that, maybe like, is it a's like, is it a part of a bigger... Yeah, there's a guy standing over there on site. Yeah, all that stuff's so interesting, like the Baghdad battery and all that. Where it's like they found ancient technologies. By the way, there are some things you would like to see, Adam, because you always make fun of carbon dating. They find these modern machinery encased in rocks or stone that is supposedly millions of years old and they're like How is this possible and there's other scientists are like well this just goes to show how

Inaccurate carbon dating can be because of the way that they measure the radioactive isotopes and stuff like yeah, it's because it's super flawed This is not a tool in million year old rock. This is I remember a long time ago That's why I've always challenged it or you know Whatever even though I don't have the the words to defend my position I just I remember learning about that like how off it was and it was just like and it wasn't I remember first learning About it, and it wasn't like kind of off. It wasn't like yeah, they're like 1% from what it could be It's like no it could be like Yeah, like millions of years off.

It's like, wait a second, that's like a lot of room for air. You know what I'm saying? It's like, yeah. So it's a big margin. Speaking of being off, so you didn't know this, huh, Adam, that our 8 Sleep hookup is $350 off? You didn't know that? No, I didn't know that was a huge discount.

Yeah, I didn't either. I don't know if we've actually said 350. That's a massive discount. $350 off their, which device is it? It's their Pod 8 Sleep. Yeah, the Pod 4 Ultra. Pod 4 Ultra, $350 off. What I'd like to hear from is from our audience, because I've had it forever.

We were just talking to a friend of ours who we interviewed the other day, and she was asking about it. I said, I think it's one of the best investments ever. I use it every single of the best investments ever. I use it every single day. Huge difference in my sleep. It's been amazing for Katrina and I. What I haven't talked to or used myself is the actually full-blown system

where they have the mattress and the pod. I've just used the pod forever. Basically, which is just the, the pod is a mattress sleeve that goes like a sleeping bag or whatever that goes over the entire mattress and then it's temperature controlled where they actually have a full system that is not only that, it's also a mattress

that actually adjusts so it even has things. It picks up when you snore. Yeah. And it moves. Yeah, it'll elevate you up. It elevates. I need to get one of those. So I'm curious if we have anybody or we know anybody

who actually has the actual full setup and what their take is on it. Oh dude, I gotta talk about our friend Mike Matthews. He sent me a text. I've been talking to Mike lately. So, you know the guy that they have that they're gonna be trying for the kid that shot the, was it, what company?

The Luigi guy? The health care insurance company, CEOs. Remember that video, there was a guy. The Luigi guy, right? Yeah, Luigi Mangione. Oh, I saw it. video, there was a guy. It was like a Luigi guy, right? Yeah, Luigi Mangione. Oh, I saw it. I saw it. And they posted his reading material.

No, his top 10 recommended books on Amazon. That's right. And one of them was Mike Matthew's book. Yeah. Okay. Mike's. He's all, oh crap. Oh no.

He sends me a text, like damn it. When I happened to ask him, I meant to ask him. I'm like, hey, how are salesmen? Are they going up or are they down? Like where are they at? You know what I'm saying? Free advertising there, yeah. The kid was fit.

There's pictures of him from Facebook where he's like with his shirt off and he's jacked. So he's obviously into working out. So it makes sense he would read a fitness book. But Mike texted me, to me, he's like, I don't know if this is good or bad. Like, am I gonna sell more books? That's hilarious.

So what is the, you guys are following that way closer than I am. It is, it- I'm not It's not you're not either. I feel like Doug and Sal have been caught him. He had a manifesto And he had the gun on him and stuff and then there's a bunch of kids What are they heard a lot of I want to know what the conspiracy theorists are saying since they seem to be the more accurate people Don't tell me the science. Don't tell me they think we have weird. Thank you for saying that Ivy League grad high intelligence Tell me that weird. Tell me the- Thank you for saying that. That's good. I agree.

He's an Ivy League grad, high intelligence, like he's never had any run-ins with the police, never any red flags. This is the conspiracy theory, right? Never had any red flags psychologically, like upstanding citizen does well, this and that. And he supposedly kills this CEO and on his way there flirts with some barista on camera and then afterwards goes to a McDonald's with the gun and his manifesto,

gets on his laptop and waits for the police to arrive. And so they're like, this makes no sense. That he would be that stupid, that brazen. That's literally how it transpired. That's the conspiracy theory. What I find interesting is, this is how shitty, this makes me sad. Some people on social media are labeling me hero for killing an insurance company CEO because insurance companies charge so much.

Why is it weird murders and things happen all the time, unfortunately? Why is this getting so much publicity? What is it about this guy? It was on camera, he did it with the silencer, and it was, I mean, it was- Wait a second, it was on camera, why would there be conspiracy then? He went to, when he was on camera,

he had a hoodie on and a mask. So you can't see. Oh, I remember somebody actually showed me, the one thing I saw was like his eyebrows, somebody showed me a picture, yeah. They zoom in on his eyebrows, and they're spaced apart in the video where, you know, where's the shooter, and then when they caught him, he had a unibrow. The sleuthing I did on this. and they're spaced apart in the video where you know shooter and then when they caught him he had a unit on this and they're like

that doesn't make sense he has a unibrow on one so conspiracy theorists are like it's a Psy-Op but like why is this I oh yeah why yeah that's the part with some motivation yeah that was he actually I guess the conspiracy is that the the CEO was executed by some people in power and that now he's a scapegoat. Because he'd be questioned or something? I have no idea. I have no idea. I don't know.

You would think that that guy, if he's a scapegoat, that guy, so he wrote it in his manifesto and is he dead now too? No, they caught him. Oh, so what is he saying? We don't know yet. Yeah. We don't know yet. I mean, there's some video of him getting brought

into the station and he's like, they planted it on me and you know You're insulting the intelligence of the American people as he's going in Do you know you know I want to I want to bring up long since this is like slightly kind of political type stuff And I feel like I one of the things I've always Loved about your when we communicate this stuff, which ironically I think the last few years people have felt It was slanted one way But what I notice and I want to be the some of the first to felt it was slanted one way. But what I notice, and I want to be the some of the first to call it out and say it now, and you've mentioned it

off air, so I'm not taking credit for being the first person to say this. And I'm just confirming what I think you've said already is there is this really interesting conservative narrative that's brewing right now. And it's real. and I see it even in Hollywood, which is what trips me out because Hollywood has been predominantly very left-leaning and it's to the point where there's so many times where I go to turn on a show and I start to watch with Katrina, I'm like I can't watch this, it's just too much. It's too political. And I've recently found shows and things that I've watched and I'm like oh that was kind of a conservative slant there.

That's weird. This is on Netflix. This is on Prime. That's interesting to me. Like, and those shows are getting populated and bolstered. And so it is really interesting. Like it's, and so- It's not interesting.

You just chase the money. Well, and so, and I think that's what this, I think- Exactly. It makes me want to be careful about saying things that like even Hollywood is just so left, technically left, are they really left liberal running or are they just going where the money is at and where the populace is? And it kind of feels that way right now because obviously we're, I mean Trump just wants the populace.

Companies and celebrities and all that stuff, they go where the money is. Period, end of story. Remember Bud Light, all the scandal? And then Bud Light, you lost all the money, and they came back with these really like, old American dudes, brand, because they lost money. Yeah, there's a lot of money. Yeah, markets are powerful.

Now there's a whole DEI thing, which is different, which tries to force companies to do certain things. Which is a real factor. But those are getting reversed now. A lot of companies are dumping them because... I think that's the reason why you've probably seen the opposite is because the release of that and the media is shifting. Really really interesting to me.

And then now, because you love to play this game or pay attention to this the most, what are the things that you watch out for on the opposite side? Oh, hyper-nationalism. Yeah. Hyper-nationalism, you have to be very careful. The dangerous side of conservativism, which we're not really seeing it yet,

now some people are like, yes we are, not really, but if we did, it could get real dangerous because it comes with patriotism, and it can be sold very effectively and it looks like hyper nationalism, hyper patriotism, exclusion of lots of other ideas, other people. Yeah. And then- Well, especially if we insulate ourselves from the other parts of the world, we're really centrally focused. And then what they do is they start to legislate their own ideas.

So legislating ideas always seems to be a bad idea. So then it's like, oh no, these are the ideas we need to have. This is what we need to force people to learn. This is what we need to take away type of deal. It's a pendulum swing, you know, goes back and forth. You just don't want it to go too extreme. I mean, we kind of knew it was coming, yeah.

So I guarantee it's, I'm always looking at that, who has power right now, and like, where do we have concerns? Yeah, both sides love to go to war, that's all I know. So every time one side gets in, the other side gets in, you seem to find a way to go to war. That was evident. I just watched a really good video

that Patrick by David did. It was like a short on like tariffs and income tax, and how, like, when did we not, you know, it wasn't that long ago, we didn't even have income tax, and, like, when did we not, you know, when there wasn't, it wasn't that long ago, we didn't even have income tax. And then how it was introduced and then how it was introduced, it was supposed to be temporary. Yes. It was a, it was a temporary thing to pay for the war. And then we realized, oh wow, we got away there with, how about another war? We'll keep that as crazy as we can keep taking people won't mind. And then,

and then to watch how that's escalated over the last 100 years is crazy to think how much of that has gone to and then how much of it was going to the government to be used. Look, I'll always support these audits and shrinking of government because it's the most inefficient crap. Have you seen the list of the audits, the amount of money that these agencies can't account for? They literally say we don't know where a million is.

The Pentagon alone is responsible for trillions. Forget it, you don't have to go that far. The state of California lost. They don't know where 20 something billion dollars went. We don't know. Could you imagine being a company and going to your showroom first? Everybody's fired, everybody's getting their assets taken.

Like, are you serious? Didn't you bring up on the podcast already about California, the new law that they're trying to pass right now with social media They have your warning warning labels. Oh, I don't know about that. Oh, so it wasn't I thought we did bring that up Maybe we didn't yeah, so that that California may be the first state to have war basically warning labels on Mental health and some some other media health and some social media.

Yeah, for social media. I mean, I thought, see, I thought we talked this week because I thought I made the comment about, oh, it'll be like the skull on the side of cigarettes. It's like the same kind of concept. You know, those actually work. Do they? The cigarette stuff?

They do. Did it? Yes, they campaigned against tobacco was effective. Yeah, they actually put pictures. It was disgusting. Oh yeah. It worked. People's like, oh my God. The. It was disgusting. Oh yeah. It worked. People's like, oh my God.

The cancer in their mouth. The cancer in their mouth. And stuff like that. Yeah, and then their throat. Yeah, that was brutal. Speaking of health, you know what we could do now finally? Hey everybody? You couldn't do this before.

It was super frustrating for our listeners, but you can do it now. You can now buy a MAPS program for a family or a friend. Yeah. And you'll gift it. They'll get an email with their name and the whole deal. And the best gift you can give. You can now buy a Maps program for a family or a friend. So awesome. And you'll gift it. They'll get an email with their name and the whole deal. And best gift you can give. And you can time the email.

Yes, you can time it. You can time it and personalize it, which is so cool. It's at checkout. Whenever you buy a program, it's at checkout. So it's any bundle, any special. Any offer that we have when you're going to the checkout. New programs. It has a little button that says,

give us a gift right underneath where the price and the checkout place is. And then you can customize, you know, happy birthday or have it delivered. It was so frustrating to me that we never had this capability. Why don't we have this? People would be like, I want to buy this for my cousin. Can we make some little cards or something?

Yeah, I'm like, yeah, no, you can do it now. You can now give the gift that, what better gift than the gift of health? No, I think that's awesome. So it'll be interesting to see. I know we have a large portion of our audience that has asked for that for a really long time. And hopefully we're getting it to them in enough time

to for the holiday. I mean, it's only like a week before Christmas. So hopefully that they'll be able to use it. I'll be curious. I'll pay attention. I'll watch the numbers on it to see how many people actually do that. But I know we've been asked but but I always wonder stuff like that too It's like, you know people were like, oh you should do this or always and then you create it, right?

You invest in it you spend all time building and then like five people do it No, I think a lot we've had so many Tons of I think so too and we've had to like try and do like finagle other ways to help people out with so I you know, I know we didn't have, we didn't have a shout out for mine, but I do have one and this is just for, for bodybuilding fans or people who want to look and see what insane ridiculous muscle building genetics looks like. Now, of course all pro bodybuilders have insane muscle building genetics, but there's this one guy I've never seen genetics like this in my entire life.

I followed bodybuilding since I was a kid and you know, I was kind of a like a fan of the whole thing. There's a guy I don't know his actual name is his nickname is neckzilla Doug look up neckzilla already. I'm interested and and pull up some pictures got Adam when you look at this guy's genetics, bro He looks like a mutant. It looks like somebody created him in a lab. Is it that big mutant looking guy? That's tiny head big tall and he's huge? No. You know what I'm talking about? I do know what you're talking about.

I mean, they're all- He's like a tiny head and a huge body. Yes, yes. No, no, there's a lot of guys that look insane, but this guy right here, especially if you look at his legs, okay, that's not a real picture. Oh my God. That's not a real picture. The one in the red is real.

That one right there is real. What? Even that is real. Yeah, look at the size of his neck. That's why they call him Neckzilla. Oh. Is that him? That's him. Doug, look up his legs.

Go Neckzilla's quads. I've never seen this guy. Or Neckzilla's guy. Bro, how did you find him? Bro, he, his, yeah. His legs are insane. Like, doesn't make any sense. And you should, yeah, dude.

How is he not one? Legs and neck. Because he doesn't have a pleasing looking physique. He's got good proportions. He just has a freaky, crazy, like this is a guy that, when he was a baby, you're looking at him going, okay, something's going on here with this. He held his head up just fine.

Yeah, look at his legs bro, on the very right, next to these other guys. He's insane looking. Ridiculous, crazy. Is that Rami he's next to right there in the middle? No. Who is that? I don't know who that is but this but his

Genetics don't make any sense. I think I've ever seen him compete. So this is a guy that Just as crazy. Does he have a YouTube channel? He's got everything. Yeah, he's got YouTube and Instagram the whole deal So this is a you're shouting out as this. Oh, oh you just go Nick Zilla. You can find him anywhere Instagram or anywhere. This is the kind of guy that if he was a long distance runner would be buffed. He could do anything. And he would be jacked. And he would ruin the switch movements.

Yeah, anything he does, he's gonna look jacked. That's the kind of gist he has. Yeah, there he is right there. Go check him out. Nick Zilla official. That's his Instagram. That's funny. It's red.

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Go check them out. Go to drinklmnt.com forward slash mind pump, and on that link you'll get a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase. All right back to the show Our first caller is Michael from California Michael. What's happening? Do it Michael. What's up, man? Hey guys Just a little bit background about me. I'm 31 and I just I'm a doctor in Agorafo, California I recently started a private practice that centers around mental health,

utilizing functional medicine and ketamine therapy to treat mental health. And I basically have been struggling with an eating disorder with exercise compensation for about 10 plus years. It started really in high school. I was overweight. I got into bodybuilding and when I was 18

I ended up developing a pretty bad eating disorder At the time I was put on TRT and thyroid meds at age 18 We did a bunch of testing and stuff and we thought it was pituitary and kind of just didn't really know what what had caused Everything but looking back now. It definitely was probably Reversible because of the way that I was, I was treating my body and everything. That pivoted to me becoming a NASA certified personal trainer right before I went to college. Started I worked for a big box gym for a while, but really didn't like the toxic environment

there. It was just not a good group of people. So then I started to, I decided to go into medicine. During medical school, I got really addicted to studying and this led to me doing a lot of pacing, where I would use it as like cardio as a form of studying so I could study better. I basically lost about 20 pounds, thought even leaner, and my cardio was up to about 40 to 45,000 steps a day on top of six to seven days of weight training. Wow.

So, yeah, it has been a lot. And then that progressed into residency. I went to into psychiatry, um, for a couple of years and, um, basically just got out of hand mainly due to stress but also just never resolving that eating disorder. Now I'm 148 pounds at 510 I eat about 2330 calories and I actually recently started working with Christina Hathaway um relatively early a few months ago and she's really changed my life and helped me get everything under control. I used to I was eating about 2100 calories at the time and my steps were you know, there were 45,000

but now they're down to 32,000 and my training days went from 7 to 4 down to 2 upper and 2 lower days, which it's, I'm getting a lot more strength gains and everything on top of that. I'd say my body fat's probably around eight, my in-body scan got me as low as 5%, but I know that's probably not the most accurate. My dietary fat's around 40 and other up to 70, which is great for my hormone support. Not that I really need it, but I think it does definitely help, especially with hair and skin, which were definitely issues in the beginning. Anyway, I got slowly started reversing my way up and I feel stronger, healthier

and happier, which is definitely the most important thing. Now for my actual question. I noticed that when I dropped my steps, about 10,000, 12,000 less, and also lowered my training, that, and increased my food, that my hunger actually increased. So I actually started to get hungrier despite doing significantly less work. My theory was that my metabolism

was starting to actually work properly and my body was craving Food that it was neglected for so long And Christina kind of echoed that so I just wanted to see what you guys what your thoughts were if this is normal or It or if I'm just kind of crazy or if I'm just kind of crazy. No, 100%. Very normal. 100%.

That's your body thanking you for moving in the right direction. It's building muscles, trying to build muscle. Hunger is an interesting signal because it could be influenced physiologically, but it's also influenced psychologically quite strongly. I think you know that, right? People with, who are really deep in like anorexia won't even feel hungry and have to force themselves to eat. So it's a bit complicated, but as your body starts to

get the signal to build muscle, you're not over trained, you're feeding it more, hormones start to move in that direction, you start to become more anabolic, you will get hungrier. And that's a good sign for someone in your situation. At your height and size, you're still low calorie. Your fat is even still low. You probably, especially with your activity and the kind of work that you do, which is a higher stress job, you're probably going to be better somewhere north of 3,000 calories and your body weight at 148 will probably be closer to 170

is what you'll find yourself. Your body fat's really low and in that you know I'm going to tell you this because this is just the truth you're going to have to gain some body fat. Maintaining a you know single digit body fat is it's very rare that that's a healthy place for a man to be in all the time. Now you can get there and come out of it but for most men and of course there's those genetic anomalies but they're typically these high-level athletes and if you know if you're one of those people you know because you're always the fastest strongest person around but for most men fit and and healthy, you're probably gonna hover anywhere between 10 to 15%.

Probably closer to 12, 11, 12% is where you'll be most of the time when you're healthy and fit and consistent. Single digit is a place that you can touch, but come right back out. So you're gonna wanna get heavier, you're gonna wanna get stronger, and I would ask you to not track

your body fat percentage at all because I think that'll really mess you up during this process. I like that you're working with Christina. I think it's important. How often do you work with her? Is it a weekly thing? Yeah, yeah, I talked to her weekly.

And yeah, she's been fantastic and really made me realize that I was, I think a lot of what I was desiring, you know, all this single digit body fat and all this stuff was not even what I really wanted. I wanted to be a husband and father and start a family. And those things actually keep you from doing those things most of the time, cause of the amount of pain and I, just what it does to your body. Yeah, 100%.

And it's always that way. You're doing really good. You are. I mean, literally what's happening right now is it's just keep, stay the course. It's keep going that direction. I mean, you could even afford to reduce the training even more.

You can afford to reduce the steps even more. You can afford to increase calories. And if you need to, psychologically, do one of them at a time. Just a little bit less of the pacing, a little bit less of the training, a little bit more of the calories, pick and choose, but keep moving in that direction.

In my experience working with individuals who struggle with this, and myself included, what tends to work as a nice stepping stone is to change your focus to something that is a little more aligned with your ultimate goal of improving your health being a father and a husband. The next step, now this is not a perfect step because you could still go off the rails with this as well, but I think if you focused on getting stronger and made that your fitness, for lack

of a better term, obsession, I don't want it to be obsession, but this is what you're focused on, I think it would move you in the right direction with everything. You'll want to eat more because you'll see the weight go up on the bar, you'll build more muscle, you won't be so concerned about body fat percentage, you're probably not even going to measure your body fat percentage because you're focused on strength. I think a MAPS anabolic program would be great for that. And I would, for you, if you were my client, I'd say, let's get you as strong as possible over the next year. And through that process, you're going to increase your calories, you're going to strength train properly, you're not going to over train, and then you're going to see all kinds of awesome results from that.

And it will move you away from the obsession, the body obsession, the body focus, the body fat percentage, all that stuff. Eventually you move away from that as well, but strength is a great stepping stone, it really is. Michael, are you struggling at all with, because the fact that you, I think you're doing phenomenal and moving the right direction,

has that felt very difficult, or have you been good with accepting moving in the direction that you are? Has it been a push and pull type of feel? Yeah, so it's interesting. So I actually tried to do this last year during residency, um, with another coach and I freaked out and went backwards. And this time around it's actually been really, really easy for me because first of all, I don't weigh myself anymore because I don't care. It doesn't really matter. And I want like, basically my, my envision of myself is a big strong man that can protect somebody and provide for a family. And I took a progress picture at the beginning with Christina that I looked at it and I didn't recognize myself.

And that I look at that every day that reminds me of what my goal is and how I want to be healthy and what I really want in life. And it's not, you know, abs with abbeys for no reason. You know, I'm not a bodybuilder. I don't get up on stage. I don't get paid for it. You know, I get paid to help people. And I pride myself in what I do for a living

and focusing on that. And then, you know, being strong because it feels good to be strong. It's my catharsis. It's what I do to release that negative energy from work that I take on from my patients and everything and have a healthier relationship with that. And it's actually been a lot easier because I've let go of those obsessions with wanting

to look perfect for actually no reason. You know what's really cool is that you work in mental health too because working with other people, helping them, you can't help but start to take your own advice and start to see some of the things that you struggle with yourself. I think that's going to really help you if it hasn't already. I'm sure it already has. Something else too to kind of move that focus would be to try something physical that's

in a bit of a different direction that requires performance. The reason why I keep pushing performance is because it's hard to under eat and over train and to improve in performance. Brazilian jiu jitsu is a great, a great segue. If you did jiu jitsu a couple days a week, lifted once a week, you might find yourself becoming, falling in love with that performance and that feeling and really just not even paying attention to the mirror because it's really about strength

and performance, you know, strength in the gym, performance on the mat. So that's just another suggestion that I've seen help quite a few men. Yeah, actually my buddy in residency took me, he just, Jiu-Jitsu, and took me to a session once and it was the most intense workout I think I've ever done. I've got destroyed but it feels good though. It's really a different kind of pain.

Totally. I'll send you maps and a ballik because if you're gonna stick with just strength training, I think that program you'll love and you'll see your strength gains explode. You'll really see your body from a strength perspective just go through the roof and I think things will fall into place. You probably you need to keep reverse dieting, keep bumping those calories up and keep moving in that direction but it's a great start. Yeah I'd like to throw you in the private forum too so we can just keep an eye on you. I know you got Christina and she's phenomenal so as long as you're working with her I think you guys are gonna do great but I'd love to put you in the

forum too just keep us updated and if you're working with her I think you guys gonna do great, but I'd love to put you in the forum to just keep us updated If you have any questions along the way, you know, you can reach directly to us that way Course thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it. You got it. Thanks for calling in. All right, Michael. Appreciate it Or you don't want you don't thank you. Take it easy, man. I Think him helping people and mental health is gonna help him. It always does, right? I mean, half of why I have fallen in love with our profession is the accountability piece

that it always did for me. I mean, that was a big- You feel like a hypocrite when you're giving advice and you're not taking it. That was a big factor for me when deciding to go down that path. It's like, you know what, I love that I'm preaching this message

every day, which is just a constant mirror for myself. And so, yeah, the fact that he's in mental health, I'm sure that's, and it sounds like he's doing phenomenal. He just keeps going that, if you just keep going that direction, and it does sound like, because my concern was, okay, he's made great progress, but has it been like, you know, white-knuckling it to get there, and it sounds like he's embraced.

Well, he did what I was going to say, and then he said he was working with someone, is you need to work with someone on a regular basis. Just like he would advise anybody who comes to him, because you need a guide, because you're left to your own devices, you'll move back to where you were before. Our next caller is Teresa from Canada.

Teresa, what's happening? Hey, how you doing, Teresa? Hey, what's happening? Hi, I'm good. How are you guys? Good. All right. How can we help you? Okay, so I'll just read from my other device here, the email.

It's long winded, so I'm sorry in advance. So should I just get into it? Yeah, do it. Yep. Okay. I'm reaching out because I feel stuck with a client. I'm a fairly novice coach and I just feel like I'm not doing enough to help this person or maybe not pushing her enough. I will try and keep this shortish. Um,

this client is a busy mom of two younger kids and a wife and works a busy full time job. She is kind of known for taking on too much onto her plate. I'm always saying yes to things. We've known each other for years and she reached out for me for help and I thought what a better person to help. She has done the whole thing in the past where you're given a basic meal plan, you follow it and then like yay you lose the weight but then what you know what after that. She has done the whole five to six days a week at home beach body thing the workouts none of that really stuck She struggles with sleep because one of their kids wakes them up like every night Plus they kind of have to do that thing where they fall asleep with their kids to get them to sleep

She struggles with scrolling at bedtime and not really prioritizing sleep, even though we talk about it quite frequently. We've been working together since February and I've been just trying to get her to focus on getting a little bit more movement in every day, hitting water intake goals, protein goals, and doing like one Maps 15 workout a week. We kind of cycle through those goals repeatedly, kind of like a hamster wheel. Recently, I've been asking her to schedule in like one workout per week,

because like I think that's just important me time, like she deserves that, whatever. She can't seem to string a solid week together of hitting protein targets. I help by giving meal ideas but not plans. I encourage cooking extra dinner or meal prepping just a few meals to help her stay ahead and leave more free time in the evenings. I try and encourage her to find foods that will work with their family because that's what they

will stick with in the long run ideally, Which is hard because the kids are picky. They have frequent large family meals on many weekends and work events and lunches and lunches don't always have good options. I want to help her make smarter choices without feeling the need to be, bring my own Tupperware type person. Her husband brought out the scale recently with no like malicious intent and she saw the scale go up since we've been working together. She didn't tell me how much but it gone up. He did see it go up too, but you know how like hard gainer men react when the scale goes up versus women.

There have been some wins with her though. I feel like she eats more protein than before. She has stopped heavily binge snacking in the evenings because she eats more at meals and she does seem like she has more energy and I think she sees the benefit of a few of these things. So on one hand I feel bad because I feel responsible for her success right now because I am her support person. I understand what works for my little family obviously may not work for everyone. I feel like this is a fairly textbook scenario for you guys that I just need more experience to figure out.

I just feel bad that months and months have passed and it makes me feel like a bad coach. But when do you have the hard conversations with people about their goals and that they kind of have to take things into their own hands and like, try, do you have any tips for making smaller goals? Um, I appreciate and look forward to any advice. I think you're doing good. I think so too. I think you're doing really good. And, um, this is, This is what makes coaching so rewarding

and so challenging. Your job as a coach is to be honest, it's to inspire and encourage, not push, inspire and encourage, but it's also to be a source of endless grace when they make a mistake because you are the person that they're concerned about. When they mess up, they probably feel bad about themselves and then you're the coach and you say,

look, it's fine, we all make a mistake. What used to help me a lot with this is remembering the areas of my life that I was stuck on a hamster wheel. We all have these. We all have areas where if somebody from the outside looked at them, they'd go go just do this thing or just don't do this thing. It's so silly and we tend to hide that from people but we

all have those. Now it is true that it is all your fault as a coach but it's also true that you need to give yourself grace as well. This is the mystery of being a good coach is you have to take the responsibility but you can't allow yourself to be crushed by the responsibility now Why do you have to take all the responsibility because you have to care if you don't care you're not going to be effective But you often also have to accept that people are human and that it's going to be a struggle and that's okay as well So what does this look like it looks like honesty? So? When do I have those hard conversations?

When they invite them. Oh my God, I can't believe I'm not losing weight. Listen, this is really hard. We know why it's not happening. We know the reasons why it's not happening, but it's just really tough. When you're ready to take the next step, you let me know, I think I have some ideas. This is how you present it. What you don't want to do is come down on

people when they make those mistakes. You don't want to come down on them unless they invite it. Sometimes that happens too. Sometimes somebody comes to you and they keep making the same mistake, same mistake. Then I would tell people, do you mind if I give you some harsh realities? Yeah. You're doing this to yourself. But it's always with care, love, encouragement, and honesty. So you don't lie, you're honest, but again, it's encouragement, inspiration, and grace. And this is the only approach that I've ever seen that gets people to the place where they can do this

for the rest of their lives. Now here's the kicker. If you force her to do something and she does it, you will rob her of the joy of making that choice herself and it's not gonna happen, it won't stick. That's the challenge. The challenge is how can I get this person to want to make these choices and these changes and when they make those changes, can I do it in a way to where they feel good about this that they did this Not that I did this that they did this you want them to feel that that's what sticks I think you're doing a good job. I think you're being a little too hard on yourself

So extend yourself that grace and give it to her when she makes a mistake Yeah, I think the best part about this client for you is Realizing that this is going to be the majority of clients. Just a fact. That's part of. It's the long game. Yeah, I mean, being a very good trainer is a lot like being a really good baseball player. If you're amazing, you're hitting the ball three out

of 10 times. I mean, you're amazing. And that's just clients are that way. And you're and hang on the things that you are making progress with her and steps in that direction and if she's If she is not bitching and complaining and blaming you then sometimes you just have to be okay that This is where she's at currently right now I know me being in her life is helping her be a healthier version than what she would be with me out of her life. And so that's a very positive thing, right? Sometimes clients would train with me and the only thing I could get them to

do is to show up to the workout. That was why they hired me and everything else they weren't doing outside of me. But hey, that's better than them not coming to the gym and at least they're coming to see me and they recognize the importance of Strength training the two or three times a week with me and so even though I couldn't get him to do any of the other things I also recognize that hey at least I can add value or keep them healthier than what they would be if they weren't seeing me So you do and if if I thought you were giving bad advice or you're pushing too much or you weren't meeting them where they're at, I'd give you advice in that direction. But I think the things that you listed that you were doing and the way you're communicating them and even where I see you're

meeting her, I mean, you're doing the right things. You really are. And it doesn't matter sometimes, like no matter what you do, that person has to really want it. Sometimes people hire a coach because they can afford to hire a coach and it makes them feel like they're trying or that they're moving in the right direction. But in reality, they haven't truly made that decision inside. And that sounds like trying, but they haven't. And that this sounds like one of those people that she's got so much going on in her life that she hasn't quite prioritized this as she does everything else. Right? It's important. It's just a matter of time for it to really set in and you never know what that trigger is You know

you never know that that one day where all of a sudden it just clicks and it makes sense and I've had this happen with Clients before it's been like a couple years and then all of a sudden like there was this huge shift in their life and That's why you just got to hang on and and there. And they just know you're the North Star. And you're there and you just keep providing good information when they need it. Yeah, here's what you want. And think of your own situation. Maybe you've known people like this in your life, right?

You make a huge embarrassing mistake. Who's that one person you know you can tell? You wanna be that for your client. What you don't wanna be is that trainer where the client's like, oh man, I went off the rails yesterday, ate a whole pizza, I'm not telling my trainer. You want to be the trainer or the coach

where they come, you're the first person. They confide in you. They confide in you because they know you're gonna be honest, but you're also gonna give them grace. Remember, grace is undeserved. Grace is not, you may think to yourself, you deserve to get whatever. That's not not what that looks like so you want to

be that coach that the person that your client feels like that's the person I go to when this when I screw up and this sucks. By the way she's got two younger kids this is a season for a lot of moms like Justin hit the nail on the head I can't tell you how many clients I had that I would train for a year two years three years like years and then all of a sudden like magic things fall into place and sometimes it's like oh my kids went to school now or I finally left that job and then things start to click and it's like man if we didn't hang in there we would have never reached that place. So this is the

the beauty of what we do as coaches and trainers. And this is why a lot of people can't do it, but that's okay, that gets me excited. Cool. Wow. Well, thank you. Yeah, sometimes I just sit back and I'm like, am I just taking her money, but like forgive my pregnancy hormones, they might come out. But she wrote me like a thank you Christmas card that said,

like, it was just like, thank you for helping me make myself a priority. And I just, after everything I've been mentally dealing with with this question, I just, I really needed to hear that because like you said, I am her support person. So it just made me feel really good. And what you guys are saying is making me feel despite the ugly crying. Um, yeah. Um, you're a good coach. Yeah, you're doing a lot of the right thing.

If you didn't feel the way you did, you wouldn't be a good coach. This is what everybody goes, this is all good coaches go through this. Yep. Well, thanks guys. Yeah, I'll just try and trust the process, I guess like I do with myself. And believe your clients when they give you money and they say that you're bringing them value. Yeah.

Believe them. Don't look at it and go, but you're not doing this, that, no, no. Believe them. They mean it. Are you attending our webinars for coaches and trainers? I attended the last one. I missed the first one, but yes, I would like to keep up. Yeah, keep registering.

We're doing them every other month right now, so we'll see you there. Perfect. You got it. Okay keep at it Thanks, Teresa Merry Christmas guys. Happy New Year This is why I love coaches You don't see anybody else they care you don't see anybody else in the fitness industry

Feel like that about people's health, about their progress. Nobody, nobody feels like that. This is why we speak to coaches and trainers. And that's why they're the ones that make the big difference. She's doing a really good job. Totally. When she was listening, I mean, obviously, I recognize her name too.

Teresa's been listening and following and been in our forums for a very long time, so I recognize her. And you can tell by the way she's handling her. I mean, she's doing all the right things. She's meeting her where she's at, she's giving her little baby steps and they fall off to get back on.

Like, I just, this is just part of the game. You know, this is part of it. Like, you just gotta be okay with it. Sometimes a coach needs a little pump up too. Yeah, yeah. That's how I feel. Oh, I remember. I definitely needed that a lot of times.

Yeah, I remember having moments like that where you have these streaks of where all the clients are like just not. Yeah, you're just like, oh my God. Yeah, I remember having moments like that where you have these streaks of where all the clients are like just not. Yeah, you're just like, oh my god, am I doing anything? Is it me? Am I that bad? So you just have, and then you have other hot streaks

where everyone's hitting their goals and they're doing great. So it just depends on the batch you got at the time you got them. But she's doing all the right things. And obviously the lady wrote her a card to thank her for how much she's doing. To me that's, so that's the big point to this conversation

I think to be had for coaches and trainers that are listening. This is a little bit different if this lady is bitching and complaining and telling her and blaming her that, you know, why am I not seeing the results? Well then there's a lot of stuff that we can communicate and talk about. But the lady is probably-

That's the invitation for the honest conversation. That's right, that's right. But it sounds like she probably. That's the invitation for the honest conversation. That's right. That's right. But it sounds like she recognizes that she's not doing all the things she needs to do, but she still values what she did. And so that's totally OK. It's totally OK.

Our next caller is Andrew from Wisconsin. What's up, Andrew? What's up, Andrew? What's happening, dude? Hey, guys. What you got for us? My main question is, so I've been lifting for about 20 years since middle school. And I've been lifting for about 20 years since middle school,

and I've done powerlifting in high school. I did track throughout college and post college. I have a gym in my basement that I set up during COVID. I've been running anabolic and power lift for the last year and a half and doing symmetry in between. We just went through our third adoption, but this adorable child does not sleep whatsoever. I want to continue training and be able to lift the stay strong for my kids who are beginning sports but the lack of sleep is getting to me finally after eight months. Wondering if there is something that you had other than maps 15 because I'm kind of a meathead that you would suggest running in the meantime as it's part of the reason that I left is for my own sanity

in those times. Good question. I think you would be pleasantly surprised with MAPS 15, because I too am a meathead and so is Sal. And I tell you what, that one of the reasons why that's such a banger is because it's a very unassuming program, and you will build muscle on it,

and you will get strong on it and it's a great workout. It really is. It just, it sounds weak because it says, it's in really the advanced version that's in there is more like 25 to 30 minutes. So it's not quite a 15 minute workout. There is a 15 workout, which is like the beginner portion of it, but a guy like you, I'd say run maps 15, do the advanced version. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with what you get from it. And I think it's perfect for what's going on in your life right now. Yeah, what does the sleep look like? How bad is it for you?

We'll say he's the worst of all of our kids. So at most, I'll get two hours consistently at a time. Between my wife and I waking up up taking shifts here and there. Yeah dude. I don't think you have a choice. I don't think you have a choice to do. I mean because your other option you can so if you did math 15 and you did the barbell version you go in there do it you want to spend extra time you do mobility do some static stretching just spend some time in there but if you go go, I mean, I think you know this, you've been working out for a long time,

you go above and beyond, it's gonna make things just rough. You'll start to get sick and things will start to break down. So I mean, the other option is go in the gym, in your gym and do like 20% intensity, where you're just getting a little bit of a pump and going through the motion, you know, type of deal. I mean, I get the whole sanity thing sanity thing you know I have that relationship with exercise too but man that kind of sleep is that's rough that'll kill your body's

ability to adapt or recover and so you got to be very careful with that because because you've been working out so long you're quite resilient and you'll fool yourself for a little while until it starts to backfire and the way it'll backfire is I mean It won't feel good You'll either hurt yourself or you're stuck to you'll get sick because your immune system will get super super depressed and and you know This is your third kid. It's a season You know you'll get through it and then you'll be able to get back at it and because you've been strength training for so long Your your muscle memory is there a little bit,

will keep what you got. But yeah, dude. I think making yourself go through the Maps 15, you will, it'll be a good lesson for you because you are literally the perfect candidate for a program like this. And I think it's important that you see the correlation of what you need to do volume and intensity-wise

when you're in a position like you are right now where you're not getting very much sleep. And how do I still work out because you care about that, but also recognize that I have to scale back somehow or some way because of the lack of sleep and what a role that plays. So I think you'll end up learning something. I mean, I did. I've been doing this for a very long time and did exactly that.

Was not excited to do it either, but was blown away by the results that came from it. And what the lesson for me was like, oh wow, I really did need to pull back. Even though in my head, I didn't think I was overdoing it. I thought for sure I was totally fine. That was the lesson was like, oh, I could really scale back.

Especially guys like us that have been lifting for so long. Man, it just doesn't take nearly as much training intensity and volume to maintain that healthy, strong physique. And the times to pull back are these, there's times when it's time to sprint, right? There's times to ramp it up, get after it, chase a PR, make gains. but it's not when you're up every two hours through the night with a new kid.

I hit a PR on that workout. I hit a deadlift PR at 44 years old. I had initially set it in my early 30s, so I got great results with it. But I get the sanity part. I would say, because you don't want to hurt yourself. You don't want to keep hammering your body. Maybe find some replacements in your basement.

Static stretching is really good because it brings the CNS down. It's relaxing. Do you have a sauna or anything? Yeah, sauna, mobility work. So you'll still be in there for your hour, but lifting is going gonna be real rough with this kind of sleep.

Yeah, if you overdo the dose of lifting, it's just gonna set you back. Yeah, how do you get through the mental barrier of it? I guess that's a big thing for me too. I see 15 and I'm like, man, that's enough for a warmup. So I think a lot of times that. Once you try it, after a couple weeks, I think you you try it after the, after a couple of weeks, I think you'll be,

the frequency of it, you'll kind of get into the momentum that it provides. And that's really like, it's, it's pretty game changer once you get past that initial hurdle of like feeling like it's really not much, you know, cause it does, you know, that, that short amount, if you're used to these long bouts, where you just crushing it in the gym, it's a definite shift and transition. But because it's all spread out all the way

throughout the week and you're doing it so frequently, you're going to see a totally different thing. Remind yourself there is a big difference between what you can tolerate and what is optimal. Because a guy like you with your background is as tough as nails probably and can you can tolerate and what is optimal. Because a guy like you with your background is tough as nails probably and can grit through any workout and be on two hours of sleep, no sleep doesn't matter, I can do this because you've trained yourself that way and you can tolerate

it because you've got that edge to you. But what you can tolerate and what is optimal for your body are two and that's why I think this would be such a good lesson is because I think you will realize that as you go through this Like oh shit. Yeah. Yeah, I could have done four times the workout because I got that in me But I realize how much my body what's optimal for my body right now is that I do this Well, this this kid's a new variable right this lag of sleep is a new variable now. You need a new variable in your training It's just you have to you have to match it. You have to be able to adapt and mold to this new challenge. Yeah, you'll be working out for the rest of your life. So this will be a season. But you

know, Andrew, you're a man of faith, right? Yeah. Okay. So you got to trust that he's got something for you. And it looks like part of it is in this obstacle right here. So you've got this miraculous baby, not sleeping well and he's probably gonna start touching your your your issues with exercise. So just watch what happens. I think you're gonna be pleasantly surprised about what you get out of it. Yep. Okay all right I trust you guys. I know it's one of those things you talk about all the time I just need to hear it right? Yeah. Do you have it? Can we send it to you? I don't have it like that like I said it was the 15 you

just looked at it right oh we'll send it to you so in in math 15 there's a barbell version do that yeah the advanced version you'll do that yeah and I'm telling you Andrew I think within two weeks you'll feel and see a difference two weeks it won't even take that long and I think you'll feel and see a difference. Two weeks. It won't even take that long. And I think you'll see positive benefits from it. And hopefully that's enough to motivate you to continue on. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you guys so

much. I appreciate it. Everything you guys are doing. You got a man. God bless. Thank you. I hope he follows up with us because I think he's going to come back and be like, oh, my gosh, you guys.

Yeah. Yeah. If he does it, right. Yeah. If he does a lot of resistance I mean yeah right away he started with any options except for message except for the exact answer you're gonna get yeah you know what's funny he's going to do it because he has no choice that's the thing dude there's no other you wake up every two hours how long is that gonna last where you could go and just work out the gym for well Yeah, or he doesn't he does continue on this and then his body tells that's what I'm saying Yeah, it's gonna revolt. Yeah, it'll eventually it'll hey, God bless them the three kids adopted. That's a lot of work, man

That's for sure. Yeah, our next caller is Deborah and coach Richard from Wisconsin. What's up guys? How you guys doing? Welcome back? Hey, how you doing? How are you? We're doing good. Very good. How are you guys? We're excited to hear the follow-up here. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Yes, well about 90 days ago on episode 24 31 you challenged me to give up the scale to back off the tracking, um, in hopes to grow both in strength and mentally kind of allow myself to go into a bulk. Um, so I'm back. I did bring my coach of four years, um, coach Richard Sauer

along here. Awesome. What's up coach? Yeah. Nice to meet you. You had mentioned once on an episode that it would be cool to have like a client coach on. So, um, and I thought, I mean, he's been such a big supporter of me and we've,

he's had my programming and trade me for four years. He's a huge, huge, um, encourager and whatnot. So anyway, um, so yeah, giving up the scale. Yeah. Tell us how that was. Um, yeah, tell us how that went. So it was really hard. Um, and I have to tell you, if you hadn't challenged me to come back, I'm not sure if I would have actually done it.

Um, it took me, because he's tried to get me to give it up for like a long time. And I just, I couldn't do it. In fact, it took me a week to deliver the scales to him. But I did. I know I was like gearing up. You had said, I think Adam, you told me that, you know, it was going to be tough, you know, when I knew it was. And the draw to get back to like have them back was so strong, especially that first week. You had said it was kind of like, you know, wanting to go back to an abusive relationship

and man, you were totally right. So about a week after giving up the scale, I can honestly tell you, I was in despair. I felt like I was heavier. I felt like I didn't have that number every day to kind of check in with. So that was hard. But after the first couple weeks, I kind of noticed that actually my eating had gotten a little better. My cravings had actually kind of reduced. And I think it's because I didn't have that number

in my head every day, you know, whether it was up or whether it was down. So that was kind of eye-opening to me. I felt good and I was kind of beginning to realize the mental benefits of not having that Number in my head every day So, you know and I also kind of gave up the food tracking. I was just going on Trying to intuitively eat One of the things I did which doesn't seem like a big thing,

but I did add a protein shake after my lift in the morning. So I left early, we train at like 5 a.m. and typically I'm up and at the gym by 4.30. And I would try to make myself to kind of wait until 8.39 o'clock when I get to work before I would have anything. Just wanting to delay, I guess, that first bit of calories. So I added a protein shake there.

And it sounds like a small change, but it's a big step to consistently add a little extra calories during the day. And Richard can kind of talk about programming what we did there, what he did. So yeah, so well, first of all, I'm still in awe that we're on this. I've been listening to you guys for over four and a half years every single week. And if we have time, I have a question for Maya at the very end if we get to it. But yeah, so it's been an absolute, I can just say honestly, like pleasure with Deb. Obviously, we've had ups and downs.

She doesn't always listen always, but obviously I'm not always great either. So no, as far as the program goes, we started together at a small bootcamp gym a couple years ago. And that was mainly group fitness. And I moved there from South Dakota and kind of built my training business from there again, just one- one. And she was one of the first people that started to trust me with some strength training stuff and whatnot. So I slowly started to get her away from doing like boot camps like five days a week and stuff or even two workouts a day kind of deal.

I'm like, Hey, this is a bottle squat. This is what a two minute rest looks like. Let's talk about some stories and to know each other a little bit. And so ever since, basically, it's become like she has done a total 180 as far as her like attitude goes, as far as the like exercises and the programming and like the mindset about that. So her consistency is stupendous. It's perfect. There's never a flaw, like if there's a fever, sickness, snowstorm, she has a gym at home too. So she has basically all of you guys' programs, plus the stuff that I write her, and we face through a lot of stuff. We've done like prototypes of maps in a bi-leg,

little bit of maps, power lift. I sometimes throw in some, I've gotten into some strong stuff myself, so I have some few like heavy carry movements in there sometimes, and she does a lot of clockwork.work so for me it's super fun to like spend a lot of time on stuff to create new things that make it challenging for her to improve essentially so the yeah so it's just been as far as that goes honestly I think well biously I will say it I think it's been well rounded and a lot of this like you guys as soon as I

heard about, met her, you guys were the first ones that I recommended. She's got me a bunch of gear from you guys. She bought all these supplements. So where's like hardcore fans right now? And so what I was I was wondering if I could ask a question in her regard, some more specific. So for example, where you know, she said with the scale and stuff, that's been a huge give up essentially. Well, we're both curious about this because I don't want to tell her something wrong just because my professional opinion says one thing, but then her person's, how she feels is different. So what I'm wondering is, like specifically, we're currently trying to get a better handle on how many days a week we work out.

She used to work out like solid five, six, sometimes seven days a week, and she walks a shit on, probably my French. The question is, I guess, with her, she works a very sedentary job the whole day, but she still hits 15 to 17 in the summer up to 20,000 steps and does a little like walk runs, which sometimes drives me nuts to be honest. Like I tell her, just relax, just like watch movie, have some, you know, let's work on some other hobbies maybe. So the question I guess I have is, do you guys think, does it seem feasible for us to

actually work on to have her like take like a legit, not even an active rest day, like just a rest day to just like go for maybe maybe not even a walk but like to just like walk like I do and not like she does actually like power walks all the time like literally don't even break a sweat or because it's a big stress management factor for her do you think that she should just continue to do that even though obviously from what I have known her now for I don't think it's always the best thing to do but it makes you mentally feel better so no great question such a good question okay so you got rid of the scale and initially it was more stressful but now it feels free yeah it feels freeing now

that's what's gonna happen if you take a real day off yeah for sure if you take a real day off so here's what happens when we have bad, when we have bad relationships with things, what we feel is it's making us better. When in reality we become slaves to that relationship. And then when you break off that relationship, initially it feels a little panic.

Oh my God, I'm not doing my thing. I feel worse. But then you start to feel more free. So I think a total day off would benefit you tremendously, tremendously. I think what you'll see is progress in the gym. You'll feel more energy. You'll feel more at peace and you'll feel more free. Just like you did from breaking the chain to the scale, it just starts to feel freeing.

You start to feel like, whoa, more alive and okay. Then you start to see in hindsight more clearly. I think that'll happen with a day off as well. As much as you exercise, as much as you do, a real day off where you just relax will be so good for you. Mental training. 100%, it'll be better for your mental state. The healthiest part about that is the exercise

and the ability for you to be okay when that happens. Because it's not necessarily that walking every day was bad, like who do we ever tell, like oh stop walking, that's too bad, like that's not necessarily that walking every day was bad. Like, who do we ever tell? Like, oh, stop walking. That's too bad. That's not a bad thing. But when you obsess over it or when you can't not walk for a day.

Or it's scary to stop. Yes. That's where the problem lies. And so it's more important to teach ourselves. It's just like what you've learned with the scale. I would be OK if three months from now we hop on the scale just to check. But we wanted to break that I you've learned with the scale. Like I would be okay if, you know, three months from now we hop on the scale just to check, but we wanted to break that.

I need to be on that scale. We want to break that. I need to go for this brisk walk every single day. It's like, no, you don't. You're an incredible shape. You're very healthy. You're very strong. You absolutely could watch movies all day today.

And you want to be able to give yourself that permission for that, for that reason only, not because I think what you're doing is quote unquote unhealthy or bad for you, but because you need to work on that relationship also, just so you have that flexibility. And when you get through that, you'll have the same feeling that you had when you broke that from the scale is that it's not the scale is bad. It's that the relationship that was with the scale is bad. The relationship with all the walking could be healthier, which is giving yourself that ability to take days off.

And I'll tell you, physiologically, you're probably going to, you probably need that time off also, just physically. You probably need that relaxing time as well with all the activity that you're doing. Pick up knitting. So the, the, the hard, the hard thing is too, and I can very much relate to that. So that's why I'm very careful when I'm asked for to do these things because I know it's a very big ask for her even though for like I'm gonna say the average person it seems like well, let's just chill today. But the

other thing is to with a lot of her family like she kind of shares her love with workouts, I do the same I burned out two times really bad this year personally. So I've kind of learned from my own mistakes you could say. So I think that's also the challenge when she has friends like or family or so that hey let's get a workout in or sometimes we work out sometimes like every once in a while but it's like let's maybe shift like let's go shop let's do something else besides working out just go spend quality time. So I basically I hope okay no no you can't so you can't not do something. You can only do something.

So what I mean by that is, okay, I'm not gonna walk. What is that, what else do I do now? So come up with something else that's growth-minded that allows you to relax. So maybe you're like, I'm gonna read a book or I'm gonna learn a new skill or I'm gonna go sit in nature. So give yourself something to do and

replace of. Otherwise what you're gonna do is you're gonna sit there twiddling your thumbs and you're like this is driving me crazy. So come up with something else. I like yin yoga is great. Yin yoga is the kind of yoga. It's not power yoga. It's not a stung. You're literally just sitting in stretches for a minute, two minutes. That's an idea. Meditation is good. Sitting in nature is good. Breathing is good. You in nature's good. Yeah, practice. Reading is good, you know, things that allow your body to not move,

but still allow you to grow in other ways is typically a good replacement. Okay, I have way too many hobbies, so I've been trying to generally have for like, hey, why don't you try this and this? She's like, nah. So, what kind of, I keep working on that. You guys have been baby steps, right?

You guys are doing great. I am a type A, like super consistent. And like you said, these are like kind of my mechanisms to kind of cope with stress and whatnot. But yeah, so adding, taking away the scale, adding a few of the calories. Those have been big steps. And I used to run, and now I only walk. So I feel like that's a good, very fast.

You're doing great. You're doing so good. Lots of progress. It's gotta be encouraging, right? Like look back at how scary it was to not weigh yourself. Now, how amazing is it that you broke that attachment, right? It's gonna feel like that every step. Every step's gonna be that way.

Challenging at first, and then better. This is This is a new training is really just for your mental health. I did tell them, you know, like a couple of weeks ago, I was like, okay, I do want my skills back. And I'm like, okay, you can hang on to them for a little longer. Because I think I recognize that if I had them back, I would split back into it, I think, kind of quickly. So I'm going to hold off on having them return them for now and just kind of sit. You know, it's that whole, um, I think it's just, I'm very goal-oriented. So sometimes the scale doesn't need to be the goal, I think is what I need to, you know, he's encouraged me to have strength be the goal.

And so that we continue to work on that. So when people say I'm type A, or when people say I'm goal oriented, it's typically code for I need to feel in control. And I need to feel like I can control things. So weighing myself, walking at this time, working out at this time, eating this food, control, control, control. So this may, the deeper issue here may be just being able to not be in control. And it

feels so good because what you try to control ends up controlling you. So it feels so good to just be like, oh wow, I don't need to be, and the world didn't explode, and it's actually a lot better. Yeah. Well, we've built, I mean, I built a lot of trust in Richard, because like that when he came into our small gym, and we did boot camp classes,

and it was like that cardio hit type thing that, you know, we've learned, you don't need to do, but he came in and he's like all of a sudden like like adding a rest and we were all like you know we need to come over and he'd hand us heavier weights and we'd look at each other we're like what is he doing like two minutes why are we resting? Yeah great job. I'm glad he's resting him. That great trainer. You got a great trainer. You got a good trainer for sure. I was one. Do I have like, can I ask one more question? Yeah, of course. Go ahead, bro.

Okay. So, um, I wanted to, I wanted to say this quick. So, um, one more, one of my best friends from college, uh, Dr. Ryan Hanks, he introduced me to you guys first. So I need to give him a huge shout out. He's an amazing guy. He's actually a pretty decent condo with Dr. Jordan shallow as well. So they're like, someone working together down in Florida. Shadow is like an OG and I've like watched every single piece of content this guy has. And then also my one of my good friends is Joshua Finsky. Adam you I mean, you meet 1000s of people but he met you at a convention in Florida, I think, like last spring. So we both trained at The Lifetime here in Brookfield together. And yeah, so he's just a massive fan. He wanted, I wanted to say, to just tell you guys that he's also a big fan. So my question is basically, I have been very fortunate over the past seven years, as being a trainer, essentially, that I have built a pretty successful business through the lifetime brand here now. It's very sustainable.

I love all my clients and everything has a very good rhythm going. Now I'm always afraid of getting complacent. I want to keep growing in the industry and with my clients. So I wanted to ask you guys for I guess a more established trainer. Do you guys have any advice? Um, if I should, um, like what, what, what else I could do to like be off more service essentially. Oh, great question. Are you doing anything virtually too?

Is everything in person for you? So yes. Uh, so I have 26, 20, 26 people in person and I have currently four people online and lifetime just developed their own online training app Which allows us to actually record videos ourselves. So basically you guys to put videos together. We just don't know this news you guys And then essentially create programs that way So that is what that's my main goal for next year to grow my online content more that I have good programs So I can mentor people that way. That's the main thing

I would suggest you you're already doing it sounds like you're doing an incredible job already with all the people you have. You have a loaded book if you've got 26 clients. I know what that schedule looks like. The only other way I think you could potentially continue to grow and reach more is to branch out into virtual. Because then you can start to host webinars where hundreds of people show up

and you can manage a lot more people virtually than you can in person. And so yeah, if you want to continue to grow and scale and and reach more people I do think that the online virtual direction is probably the direction you want to continue to go into You're not in our course right now, are you Richard? No, so I mean you're I don't want to disrupt lifetime so you got a good situation there But one of the things that's gonna be really, we just soft launched to our coaches and trainers in there,

the software high level, and what that is going to allow them do, it's basically a CRM to help trainers scale their business, and they are going to be able to white label all of our stuff. So in other words, you would be able to take the million dollars plus of assets that we've created, all the the maps programs and actually brand it as your own to go out into the virtual

world. And so that's something that yes, yeah, that's something that we've been working on for over a year now. It is almost completely done. We've already rolled out the first version of it, which is basically helping you with email marketing and capturing leads and funnels and yeah, all that stuff. It's my own business. We actually set it all up for you and you use all of our assets.

So that's... Wow, okay. We just launched it, so yeah, check it out. Show up to the webinars that Sal and I were doing because we'll talk about it. We should have Ann or Kyle give them a call. Yeah, I can do that. I can have Ann or Kyle talk to you and show you what it looks like if that's ever a direction you want to go because that's our main focus next year is to really help all of our coaches and trainers

and need to scale their businesses. Yep that's bonkers. Yeah that was the only other thing step up from my for me to do something independently and a while ago when shit went south at the other gym I was thinking about that but I just love co-workers and I love the the big box environment and we have like over 8,000 members here plus like 25 full-time trainers so I love every single person on the team so it's like that's the only thing where I'd be like well if I do my own gig and online but anyway that sounds incredible though I would definitely interested to check that out yeah we'll reach out Richard I'll make sure they reach out

to you okay all right thank you great job yes thank you appreciate it yeah super happy for you guys thank you so much all right I love these follow-ups yeah yeah they're great yeah it's cool yeah I remember she was in her gym when she called us I told her I told her remember I remember the abusive relationship I could run this I remember she was in her gym when she called us. I totally remember. I totally remember. I remember the abusive relationship I grew up with. I remember the look on her face when I said that to her and it was like this, ooh. Yeah, that's awesome. But I mean, it's freeing, you know?

It's so freeing to break those chains, but it's so scary. And you feel like it's gonna be worse when in fact it's a lot better. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano. Adam is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump. Stefano Adams at Mind Pump. Adam.

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps andabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically

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