Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2509: Don’t Make These 5 Nutrition Mistakes in 2025 (Listener Live Coaching)

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Starting point is 00:00:50 In today's episode, we answered live callers questions. So people called in, we got to coach them on air for their health and fitness. But this was after the intro and the intro was 56 minutes today. In that part, we talk about fitness and current events and family life, bring up studies. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this where you call in we get to help you Out email us your question at live mind pump media Calmness episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is seed. This is the world's best Probiotic go check them out. Go to seed.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code 25 mind pump. Get 25% off.

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Starting point is 00:02:47 lose weight, look fit, but here are the top five nutrition mistakes many, many people are gonna make in 2025. Check this out. Definitely, I don't even know which ones you're gonna put on here, but fad diets has to be up there. I mean, always. That's always one of them. I'll tell you what the first one is cause it to be up there. I mean, always. That's always one of them.

Starting point is 00:03:06 I'll tell you what the first one is because it's kind of there. And it's actually, all diets have kind of a similar, terrible track record when you look at the data, right? So any diet, quote unquote diet that people go on, they all have a fail rate of something like 80% plus, right? After a couple years of weight loss on whatever diet, the vast majority of people end up gaining the weight back.

Starting point is 00:03:30 By the way, those are the people that even had success with it, right? Because there's a lot of people that, oh, I'm like, they're in the middle of it right now, they're like, it's working great for me, it's like, yeah bro, it's month three, call me in a year. I'm talking about the people that actually lost the weight,

Starting point is 00:03:42 80% of them will gain back, that's not even talking about the people that won't even lose the weight, 80% of them will give it back. That's not even talking about the people who are gonna lose the weight, because they try it and they drop off. But number one is going vegan. Going vegan actually has a worse track record than most popular diets when it comes to sustainability. Because it's one of the hardest, one of the strictest.

Starting point is 00:04:01 It's not only one of the hardest and one of the strictest, it also results, tends to result in nutrient deficiencies. When you take omnivores, even unhealthy omnivores, which means, okay, so let's unpack this. Average person who eats meat and vegetable products, meat and plant products, they don't necessarily, they don't really watch their diet. They just kind of eat, right? They don't pay attention to anything.

Starting point is 00:04:26 Then what they do is they say, I'm gonna go vegan because I wanna get more healthy and fit and lose weight. So then the only thing they pay attention to is cutting out all of the meat products. Right, yeah. And what they did by doing that. Which is a huge macronutrient. That's it, what they did by doing that

Starting point is 00:04:41 without realizing it is they actually took out the most nutrient-dense foods that they had in their terrible diet. So their diet was already bad, but they were at least eating some milk and some eggs and they'd have the occasional burger or steak. Those meats are nutrient-dense. So now that they cut them out, which of course when we talk about this, they'll replace them with processed vegan foods, which are worse, they now have put themselves at greater risk for nutrient deficiency. So when you look at the data on vegans, nutrient deficiency rates are much higher. And nutrient deficiencies cause everything from depression, anxiety, poor health, low energy, sleep issues, hormone issues, just the list goes.

Starting point is 00:05:20 Well, we talk about this all the time that even the omnivore Has an incredibly difficult time hitting their protein to us I mean, this is somebody who includes this so if the the person who's including meats has a hard time eating protein What do you think is gonna happen to somebody who completely eliminates that? I mean, that's just it makes it very difficult I've I could probably count on one ham in my career that I've met people that have been able to successfully Run a vegan diet same because I mean if you can I'm all for it I mean if that if that's what you like and it works for you and you actually are Diligent you track or you maybe you found a system of foods that you consistently eat that does help you hit all your targets

Starting point is 00:06:01 And then okay, I'm not against it. I just haven't seen that many people successfully do it. Well, so just to put it differently, if you eat a well-planned omnivore diet, you probably won't need to take supplements. You probably won't need to take certain nutrients or vitamins or minerals. You'll probably be able to hit all of those. If you're going vegan, it's very hard to not have to supplement, even if it's well planned, because plant-based foods are devoid of certain nutrients that are very difficult to find unless you go with meats or fish or

Starting point is 00:06:40 eggs or things that contain nutrients, again, that you don't necessarily find in plants and nutrient efficiencies are no joke. You can have a poor diet, but if you're lacking vitamin D, which is common, or iron, which is common, or one of the B vitamins, which is common, or you have no creatine in your diet, so your body's always synthesizing its own creatine, that can cause problems. All of those, magnesium is another one, all of those can be difficult to get, omega-3. So this can be very difficult or impossible to get from plant sources. Now you're battling illness, chronic issues and not realizing, like, why do I feel so crappy? So when you look at the data on vegans that are successful, it's the vegans that have a very strong moral driver for veganism.

Starting point is 00:07:25 So they're not doing it to lose weight. They're doing it because they really care about animals. And so they're trying to figure this out. It's a bit of a religious sort of fervor behind it. And I think that's kind of the only way I could see somebody justifying it anymore. Like, do you think that the momentum and the hype around it has died off a bit?

Starting point is 00:07:43 No, no. It's still increasing. Yeah, it's still popular. There's still this huge like. I guess I just haven't has died off a bit. It's still increasing. Yeah there's still this huge like... I guess I just haven't seen it in a while. They've wrapped it with the climate and the environment. They've wrapped it with moral, you know, you're a more moral individual somehow. So yeah you're still seeing it be a kind of a popular diet option that people jump to but it's not a great option at all. And then here's the other side. Google that for me.

Starting point is 00:08:06 What are the, what are the top five, uh, diets? Yeah. See what they are. Do they even put veganism up there though? So that's the thing when they do that, do they even, uh, list that as a diet someone will go on? Really? They don't list?

Starting point is 00:08:18 Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe not. I, you think they w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w it's a diet. I know it is, but I wonder if it included in some of those. Oh god, we can't trust Google. Go to Duck Duck Go and. I've got, it is in the top five. Okay, it is. So we got the Mediterranean diet, the Dash diet. Whoa, Mediterranean is the top five?

Starting point is 00:08:38 Yeah. Of diets that people will try to follow. Interesting. Yeah. Oh, so Dash diet, are you familiar with that one? Look that one up again. Yeah, no, it's fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean proteins and low fat dairy. Sounds like a 1980s diet. It does. And then there's the MIND diet which is a combination of the Mediterranean and the DASH diet. Wait a second, where are you googling this? I'm just

Starting point is 00:09:08 getting... You're giving me DASH and the Mediterranean as top five? Well, number five was vegan. Yeah, this must be a medical website. DASH was a diet. I know, and now I remember where it came from. That was one doctors used to recommend for a while for people. It's like a low fat. I wouldn't even guess that to be up there. That's interesting. Yeah, paleo you would think would be up there. Even carnivore I feel like has gotten more traction. I think it gets more traction.

Starting point is 00:09:31 I don't think it's popular. I don't think very many people are trying it except for like the extreme people in our space. Social media for sure. By the way, that one is almost as bad as the vegan diet. I just want to put it out there because I know there's going to be a bunch of anti-vegan people that are huge carnivore people. It's like you're far less likely to get Yeah, that's the only reason why that's better, right?

Starting point is 00:09:51 So the reason why I want to speak out on this because I don't want to feel like we're like bullying people that want to Try and be vegan is just like I think people that do carnivore too or so unless you have some health condition Okay, we're yeah, you have your immune systems really.. Yeah, yeah, so understandable, if that's it. I'm not speaking to these people. I'm talking about people that do it to get in shape or lose weight. That's why it's a stupid idea. Terrible.

Starting point is 00:10:11 And the carnivore diet is almost as bad. And the only reason why it's not quite as bad is because how nutrient-dense meat is. And so... You won't have a nutrient deficiency. Yeah, you won't have a nutrient deficiency. If you eat two pounds of steak every day, you're gonna cover your bases pretty good. But boy, let me tell you how boring that gets.

Starting point is 00:10:30 Not just boring, but no fiber. Fiber's got health benefits. I know the carnivores will say, oh, there's no health benefits. No, there's real health benefits to fiber. There's a lot of data supporting it. And it is definitely boring. And it probably isn't good for your digestive system to just go carnivore but there are people with immune systems that are so reactive that it's the only option. It's our only option. It's the best option. But with veganism, the other side of this is when you take the average person, you have

Starting point is 00:10:56 just cut out meat products, they replace them with more processed foods. It happens every time. Every single time, that's what happens. They go, oh, I'm not eating burgers anymore. Now I'm going to eat, well, what am I eating instead? The possible burger. Yes. I'll go eat something like that.

Starting point is 00:11:10 Which affects your cognition. I mean, right there you see the difference. You see vegan supplement with omega-3s and creatine, and watch what happens to their cognitive performance. The next one, which you kind of touched on, Adam, this is a huge mistake for any diet, is not prioritizing protein. Oh, yeah. Eating, not eating what's considered optimal protein

Starting point is 00:11:29 based on the studies. So the studies will show, now I'm gonna overshoot it, because the data will say about 0.6 to 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight in normal weight individuals. But we, just to make it easy for people, we say one gram of protein per pound of target body weight. Okay? If you're under that, then you're not optimizing your muscle gain, muscle preservation,

Starting point is 00:11:51 fat loss, satiety, meaning you're going to be more hungry. So it's just a big mistake. So regardless of what diet you're on, if you make it high protein, it will be more effective. If it's low protein, it will be less effective. You're more likely to lose muscle in a deficit, in a calorie deficit. You're more likely to be hungry. You, in a calorie per calorie, you know, controlled diet, high protein diet, results in more fat loss.

Starting point is 00:12:16 So not prioritizing protein for most people, big mistake. I mean, I thought we should have said this as number one, because then I would have set the table for vegan. Because I feel like as soon as we start to go after vegan, then right away anybody who is vegan or wanting to try that, defense goes up, wall goes up, they're not hearing what we're saying, oh, we're just attacking. It's like, no, no, no, there's a very logical reason

Starting point is 00:12:35 why none of us are a fan of that diet, and this is the reason why. It's already incredibly difficult for the average person to consistently hit those protein targets. And so if you get rid of meat completely it's just mad it makes it almost impossible for the average person not talking about the person who is highly motivated for whatever reason that person has an that has structured it figured it all out for moral reasons I get it that that understood then I get it but that most people that do it for a diet to lose weight, they're already

Starting point is 00:13:06 behind the eight ball. They're already missing protein like crazy. Then you cut out a food group like that. It's like, good luck. Even just for everybody else, if you prioritize protein, if you try to hit your target body weight in protein and you eat it first, you will see benefits. If you don't, you're not going to gain the max benefits of whatever diet you're trying. And by the way, this takes work. So the average person listening, you get the average woman, who let's say her target body weight is 150 pounds. Let's just say 140 pounds. I want to weigh 140 or 150 pounds. You need to eat 50 grams of protein for breakfast, for lunch, and for dinner.

Starting point is 00:13:45 So you ask that person, okay, well, you gotta prioritize protein. Oh yeah, no problem. This morning I had two scrambled eggs with cheese. Congratulations, you ate 15 grams of protein. You have another 35 to go. Where are you gonna get that? So a lot of people have no idea

Starting point is 00:13:59 just how challenging it is to hit those protein targets. And if you're a guy, wanna weigh 180 pounds or 200 pounds, very difficult. Needs to be prioritized is the point with that. Next up is relying on packaged foods. These diets still exist. Where you go on a diet and the diet consists of here's your meals, here's your frozen meals, microwave them, warm them up, this is all you're gonna eat.

Starting point is 00:14:22 The Hungry Man diet. Yeah, that's a real diet, I remember that. Yeah. Yeah, this one was, now this one's popular, it never goes away because I think people like the simplicity. It's the convenience. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:34 Yeah, I think that's a big factor too, which, I mean, you do have to factor that in, in terms of like your being able to keep it going and be consistent, but I mean, you're just gonna end up with preservatives, you're gonna end up with all this excess calories that you're gonna have to account for and all the other things that transpond from there.

Starting point is 00:14:56 I mean, this is the bone we had to pick with IIFYM, was that, you know, because obviously hitting your macro targets is incredibly valuable. And what most people need to do and most people that do that hit your macros, we'll see major positive changes in as far as overall health. But when you do it through eating all these packages, there's just a clear difference that you and anybody I know that has actually tested this where they go, hey, you know what? I'm going to allow whatever processed foods, packaged foods, whatever, just stay at my macros. I'm going to eat that way. And then

Starting point is 00:15:34 now I'm going to go and run for just 30 days of all whole foods. Even if the macros are exactly the same, tell me you don't feel different. Tell me you don't feel different. The natural signals are blunted. It's like you're not getting, you're not receiving the same nutrient density and your body just like, it's not gonna be satiated the same way. Like there's just a lot of differences.

Starting point is 00:15:56 I mean, I wish I could articulate it better, right? I wish I could explain what is happening to the person, but it's a very clear difference. It's because we don't fully, 100% understand how our bodies utilize food. The metabolism's really, really complex. But forget all that. What you guys all said was true.

Starting point is 00:16:13 Erase all that. Let's just pretend it's exactly the same. You're gonna eat these packaged foods forever. The second you go off this diet, that's it, you're done. How do you navigate? That's it. So I remember when Jenny Craig, when that was super popular, and that was like a big thing, and I'd have clients be like, oh, that's it, you're done. How do you navigate? That's it. So I remember when, remember Jenny Craig,

Starting point is 00:16:25 when that was super popular? And that was like a big thing and I'd have clients, but oh, I'm on the Jenny Craig diet. What was that? Oh, I have my breakfast, my lunch, my dinner. It's these little packaged things and snacks. And that's all I eat. They go, well, what are you gonna do

Starting point is 00:16:37 when you go off of it? Oh, then I'm gonna just try and maintain. Nobody maintained. Nobody, because it was eat this food all the time, same stuff, then go off, gain all the weight back. Because I don't know how to navigate the world because I haven't learned anything. I haven't figured anything else.

Starting point is 00:16:53 This is all just food that's prepared for me, that's packaged. It's got a terrible success rate. The fail rate on this is super high. Now, okay, so what's your take then on these food services that prepackage and make the meals for you? They're whole foods though, and they're just frozen So what's your take then on these food services? That pre-package and make the meals for you. They're whole foods though, and they're just frozen and they're sent to you.

Starting point is 00:17:10 Healthier choice for you. But to the point you're making, you're still running that same thing. You will because once you stop the service. You built a dependency. 100%, look, it's like having a teenage kid at home who you make them breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and they're like, you know what?

Starting point is 00:17:26 I'm going to just fend for myself. What do they end up eating? They don't know what to do. They don't have to prepare anything. Now, obviously adults know how to do a lot of stuff, but if you don't know what your body needs, how to manage the world with the food that you're surrounded by all that stuff, and you're just eating exactly these, these packaged foods and that's it. The second you go off, you've got a massive hurdle. It already a big hurdle anyway trying to lose weight and maintain it. You just keep creating a hurdle

Starting point is 00:17:49 that's almost impossible to and this is why I've always been such a fan of At least a short period of your time should be spent on tracking weighing and measuring food Get an idea just get an idea because then if you really understand that, then I can see periods of time. Yeah, then I can see periods of time where you order food services like that and then you don't. So at least when you don't, you're aware of when you're sitting down in front of a plate, like, oh, that's probably around this much. Granted, you're probably- That's a cup of rice that has this many grams of carbs, eight ounces of meat. Right, just an idea. because what I have found is if you don't, what you think is way off.

Starting point is 00:18:28 I mean, I think I'm off and I know. If you don't have an idea, you are way, way off. Super off. I remember my favorite story that you tell, Adam, because I had the exact same experience, was when we were trainers, before you had all these apps that would calculate your calories and stuff for you We used to have this big book that we would use called. It was a calorie king

Starting point is 00:18:49 And this is what we'd use with our clients and you go in there and it would say, you know one medium Sweet potato has this many calories one large banana banana You were hit by the sweet potato I was a banana yeah. I'm like, oh, this is a large banana. So I'm eating, I don't remember what I thought, what the calorie king said. It was something like 37 grams of carbs or something like that. Or the nuts where you only have like four. I was like, nobody's going to just grab four. A handful.

Starting point is 00:19:16 How many is a handful? Six. I got some big hands. So I was eating a large banana every single day. And then I remember looking at the weight of it and I was like I wonder yes, I wait time. I'm like this is this either is the biggest banana ever. That's ever You know bought or whatever, but or it's almost like those books were made like in the 60s before the food Cuz I remember I was putting in a large sweet potato that was the biggest size you could put I'm like

Starting point is 00:19:43 Oh, that's a big one. I could tell it's all, but it was like still three times the weight. I had a client who was doing, doing this and we, and she, we couldn't figure out what was going on. It's well, how big are the, what are you eating every day? She's like, oh, about six ounces of chicken breast. I said, can you bring it next time? Can you bring it in so we can take a little? It was like a 10 ounce chicken breast. I'm like, yeah, chickens are not what they used to be. It was like a 10 ounce chicken breast. I'm like, yeah, chickens are not what they used to be.

Starting point is 00:20:04 Yeah, that's a big chicken. Next up is ignoring your digestion with your diet. This actually should be at the top. This is a high one, yeah. This should be at the top of the list of things you consider with your diet. If your diet is not giving you really good digestion, if it's causing inflammation, heartburn, constipation,

Starting point is 00:20:27 gas, any kind of discomfort, it will influence your behaviors. It will make you have more cravings or less cravings. It will cause discomfort. It will cause inflammation. Your digestive system has such an impact on your behaviors that if you don't mind this, it can be very difficult to eat healthy. So common too as a problem when people really subscribe to these specific diets. I'm trying so hard to follow, it's not working, I'm feeling all these effects, but they just think they could just move right through that and it's all going to kind of settle and be fine as long as I get to my goal.

Starting point is 00:21:02 And it's such a goal-driven mindset that I think people, yeah, they ignore these symptoms and these things that your body is trying to tell you, like this isn't agreeing with me. Oh, I think everybody does. Yeah. I mean, I've- Well, the bodybuilding world is-

Starting point is 00:21:14 Well, admittedly, like even as a trainer, I mean, I just, for the longest time, just assume that like, you know, this is just, you know, phases everybody goes through. There's times in the week when you just got good days and bad days and never once- Diarrhea a lot. I mean, like, crazy, like, you know, this is just, you know, phases everybody goes through. There's times in the week when you just got good days and bad days and never once. Diarrhea a lot. I mean, like, crazy.

Starting point is 00:21:28 Like, looking back now, I'm like, what an idiot. But I'm like, what it opens my eyes to is just the clients are the same way too. I mean, they just assume that. And I tell you what, for 30 days, eat whole foods, eat clean, eat good, right? And what's amazing is after you do that, if you introduce a food that you're probably not

Starting point is 00:21:49 supposed to eat, it is very obvious. It is very obvious, especially when you've actually cleaned it out. Now, our bodies are adaptation machines. They are very, very sophisticated, and they are very good at adapting. So if you eat shit a lot and maybe originally you had like really bad digestion, eventually the body gets better than what it would be. But go

Starting point is 00:22:10 clean the system out for 30 days, eat whole foods, and then reintroduce some of that shit that you think you were okay with. And it's quick to tell you. My favorite story on this was I remember as an early trainer I had a client that you know when you wouldn't when as a, when you get a new client, one of the things they would do is list medications and you're just required to do this when you work in a big box gym. And what we would look for as trainers were,

Starting point is 00:22:34 typically we were advised to look for blood pressure medications or beta blockers because as a trainer, I need to know your heart rate's gonna be affected and or I need to be careful with your blood pressure if it gets too low Or whatever we don't want you to pass out, right? Yeah, but I remember this client listed their medications and one of them was I don't remember what it was It was a heart. It was a heartburn medication

Starting point is 00:22:53 I think was Prilosec or something like that and they're taking a regular and I said, uh, how long have you been taking this? Like oh, I've been taking it for years. I just get heartburn. Anyway months later We're training and we're going through their diet and cutting things out and it turned out it was the morning bagel that they had every day for years that was causing heartburn. They took got rid of the bagel and the heartburn went away. But it was they were just medicating it the entire time not realizing that this thing was causing inflammation, ups and downs with energy, all the things that come from digestive issues. I can't tell you how many times I've really disciplined myself to eat

Starting point is 00:23:31 really clean and all whole foods for in a short period of time, say three weeks to a month, and then learn something new about foods I was eating and justifying in my diet. I mean still to this day, when I do it and I'll start to let things go Oh, wow, I my body really doesn't like that because it's been away for 30 days I now reintroduce it and it doesn't agree with me yet. I had told myself. Oh, yeah. No, it's fine. It's good It's a health food. It's whatever whatever justification and I think this happens to everybody I think we're all guilty of this Especially when it's a food we love. And it affects.

Starting point is 00:24:05 And something you do all the time. It affects your cravings, it affects your energy, your sleep, it affects your ability to burn body fat and build muscle. Lastly, it's essentially, this is the biggest one, making a drastic change. When you're going from the way you're eating now to something that looks nothing like the way you're eating,

Starting point is 00:24:23 the odds that you'll be able to maintain this past the point of motivation fading is zero. So it's January, here's what you get in January. We know this, we've been working in this fitness in the fitness space now for two and a half decades. Everybody's motivated. Everybody is like, I'm ready to do this. And a lot of people make big changes when they're motivated.

Starting point is 00:24:44 But that motivation fades because it's a feeling no feeling sticks with you for nobody's always motivated all the time that's super super super rare we know who those people are though the you know big producers of the world all of us go through periods of motivation I wish I could be motivated all time doesn't work so when that motivation goes away all those drastic changes become impossible to maintain the The best approach is to make small changes, stick to those small changes until they feel like habits, until they feel like a part of your life, then make another change and stack on top of it.

Starting point is 00:25:14 That is a sustainable approach. Adherence, man. I swear it's one of the most important factors. In my career, like just with clients realizing not too many huge changes, in my career, like just with clients realizing, you know, not too many huge changes, the small changes, because, you know, it has to reflect like their daily life. It has to really look pretty similar, but we're just tweaking and we're modifying as we go because this is the long game. And I think that, you know, we're just, we get our horse blinders on, we think we could just barrel through and at the end end it's gonna be different.

Starting point is 00:25:45 And now I'm gonna adopt all these new habits I just created for myself when in fact, that's a really hard ask. It's also, I think, a lot, people don't understand how adaptation works, and they think that the more they do, the more results they're gonna get right away. It's just the body doesn't work that way.

Starting point is 00:26:01 You think you change all these things and you're gonna get more doing it. This is also how I tell my family and friends who ask if I think their trainer is a good trainer or not. I always go like, well, did they write you a diet? If they did. And if your trainer is writing your diet, then they're still green. We've gotten pushed back on this one. Even if you think they're good, they're not that good. A good trainer will refuse to write

Starting point is 00:26:24 a diet. Because clients beg for it, always. Still this day, if anyone ever asks for help from me, tell me what to eat, write me a diet. The mindless part, they want to just have that experience. And a veteran trainer will know how to navigate that and say, like, you don't want me to. You don't want me to write you a diet, because you'll fail.

Starting point is 00:26:41 Everybody fails when you do that. Of course, I could write you something, and if you eat exactly like that for the next two months, maybe we see the results, but you for sure won't keep them on. We could give you the answers to the test, but that won't teach you how to do math. So if you're going to live the rest of your life trying to maintain this and do this, you got to know how to do it. Getting the answers doesn't do it at all. To make it sustainable and realistic, I want to look and assess what you're currently doing right now

Starting point is 00:27:06 and then trust me, there's gonna be opportunity for me to improve it right away. And I'll look at it and go like, okay, great. Let's start here. Yeah, we're missing this, we're not getting enough of this, we're getting too much of that. It's like, I'm not gonna just throw the whole kitchen sink in and I'm gonna go like, hey, let's go after this

Starting point is 00:27:19 or let's stop doing this. You know what's funny? I know we all did this. Early trainer, early versions of us gave them all the answers. Of course. Later trainer, I would convince people to not do everything. All of this.

Starting point is 00:27:31 People would come to me and say, I'm doing all this stuff. Yeah, you're pulling them back. You're reining them in. I would pull them back every single time. I was far more successful as a trainer. My clients were far more successful as a result. Now, speaking of diet, you know, it's interesting.

Starting point is 00:27:42 I was just thinking about this. Do you guys remember, you probably, I don't think you hear this as much anymore, I think now the data is supporting this, but do you guys remember how we were actually taught this, and then I'm sure you heard clients say this, or you know, I actually trained a dermatologist once that told me this, that diet had no,

Starting point is 00:28:00 didn't affect people's skin? Yeah. You guys remember hearing that? It's so crazy. Like what you eat doesn't affect your acne, doesn't affect your blemishes, your skin quality. Did they even think about that logic before saying that? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:28:13 Dermatologists still say shit like that. I trained a dermatologist and I asked them, I heard this causes acne. No, no, no, diet has no impact on acne. I went through that during this time that we started this show, in the last 10 years, when I was seeing the dermatologist for my psoriasis. And I'm like, you know, could it be something going on in my diet? Could it be something? Oh, no, no, no. There's no correlation with the diet. That's so crazy. It's like, what? You know what's crazy about that? So I'll pull up some studies here. Especially something something like that autoimmune is directly related to your immune system So I mean I'll bring this up now. We do know for sure that the data shows us that certain probiotics have helped

Starting point is 00:28:53 people with different skin conditions including acne Dry skin eczema. We know that the skin has its own microbiome and that microbiome will change Depending on the bacteria that's in your gut, depending on your diet. So you could change the microbiome on your skin, which then affects the way your skin looks. So we have data showing that taking a good probiotic actually positively impacts people's skin,

Starting point is 00:29:21 again, with things like their ability, ready for this? Probiotics might actually help with sun damage, people's skin, again, with things like their ability, ready for this, probiotics might actually help with sun damage, helps skin with moisture, enhances hair quality, and may actually help reduce the risk of skin cancer. This is a probiotic. But now, does your diet affect your gut microbiome as well? Yes, also. But probiotics have a positive impact.

Starting point is 00:29:43 It's interesting. We're kind of going through that right now with Everett and I found out a new thing a new fact I guess because he's he looks a little anemic like he's like very white and like more so than normal I know, you know inherited it for me, but you know more so than normal But he has been on this crazy growth spurt and And apparently, like, it could give you symptoms like your anemic, if you're on like this crazy, like, growth spurt. Oh, really? Yeah. So we've been giving him probiotics, you know, as to try and like, and also, we're going to do like a blood panel and test to see if he's deficient.

Starting point is 00:30:20 He might be. So we'll check that out, too. But I just didn't know that that was also like, could be a factor. How fast is he growing? I mean, he's, dude, I don't know. I didn't measure, but like he, he looks like he grew like overnight, like another inch.

Starting point is 00:30:36 They do. They do that. Remember that one study that- He stands above like his friends now. Yeah, that documentary was really good. Yeah, no seed, our partner Seed, we have people that write in that say, that documentary was really good. Yeah, no seed, our partner seed, we have people that write in that say that it improved their skin.

Starting point is 00:30:49 We have people that will actually say that. What's the, so Max is on the children's one. What age do they, would you switch over to like, oh, I don't know. Is like Ethan on the adult one? I think 12. Is that what I was wondering when that is? Yeah, so I, yeah, that, we saw that,

Starting point is 00:31:02 like, Everett's sort of in between that, but he's almost 12, so we give it to him. Didn't you, you had a huge growth spurt as a kid, in high school. How, like, okay, what was, because you were? I was five three as a freshman, I played point guard. Five three? Five three.

Starting point is 00:31:15 So you were tiny. In high school? Yeah, no way. Wait, five three? I was, my freshman year, my freshman year, I was five three, playing basketball. I was point guard. And then the next year to that, I grew a couple inches. So not a lot. Yeah. Five, five, five, six, still not tall. My junior summer. So after junior year, junior summer, going into my senior

Starting point is 00:31:38 year, I sprouted all the way up to six foot. But then I still grew another three inches after high school. So I grew outside of high school. I grew all the way till I was like 20. When you came back, first of all, did it hurt? Did you get the growing pains? No, no, no. You hear about that. Yeah, I know people say that, but I don't, I don't ever remember anything like that. When you came back to school, were kids like, whoa. Yeah, no, I remember.

Starting point is 00:31:57 Cause that's crazy. Yeah, yeah. I think they called me like stretch and things like that. Yeah, yeah. So I had like... My brother was like that. My brother, the same thing. He was tiny, tiny, tiny. Everybody thought that I was gonna be taller than him. And then out of nowhere, he was six two now, or I think we're six three.

Starting point is 00:32:11 Yeah, yeah, no, I sprouted out of nowhere like that. And then I did, I kept growing. I think I graduated high school, I'm pretty sure at six foot. That's so crazy. I was five 11 as a freshman. Oh wow. Yeah, I got tall.

Starting point is 00:32:22 Wow. Five 11 is tall for a freshman. I was a tall ass Wow. And then 5'11 is tall for a freshman. I was a tall ass kid and then then I got to six foot and it stopped. By the time I was a sophomore I was six foot and that was it. I'm still waiting. I've been a late bloomer all my life. I mean I wasn't so I wasn't so you weren't a late bloomer at all you were early then. Early but I was like. Were you one of those kids like a a mustache in like fifth and sixth grade? Oh, I had, I mean, yeah. You were one of those kids?

Starting point is 00:32:47 I had armpit hair and everything. Oh wow, yeah, see I didn't even get like armpit hair until I was like a freshman almost, dude. I was, yeah, I was late. Oh no, I was in seventh grade. Yeah, I was a late, I was a late, I was late. I actually have a junior high picture of myself. Cause I remember.

Starting point is 00:32:58 With a little bit of mustache. I had no mustache, I had everything else. I remember being embarrassed. I remember being embarrassed as a freshman boy and that was still when it was popular to you wear a t-shirt under your jersey because you didn't want you know girls and other dudes to know that you didn't have a lot of armpit hair. So I was barely like sprouting. I was junior high for me. And so I remember wearing a t-shirt underneath my jersey and I remember that's why. I remember that I was insecure about that I didn't have as

Starting point is 00:33:24 much armpit hair. No I literally have a junior high picture of me in seventh grade and I remember that's why I remember that I was insecure about that I didn't have as much armpit hair as I had literally have a junior high picture me in seventh grade I'm trying to look all hard and I have like the little mustache go down or whatever I didn't grow it it just was there Justin you say you put dirt you said I did half my my friends had little bits of stash. I had nothing. I just like peach fuzz. You know, the move is to use mascara, but I know that you would never do that.

Starting point is 00:33:50 It's like, oh, no, well, I'll put some dirt. I'll put some dirt. I didn't have sisters, bro. I probably would have done that. Grease. We need to have a talk. Grease. Going back to the Daily Symbiotic,

Starting point is 00:34:00 though, they say from 18 up. Oh, so it's 18. Yeah, so the pediatric is from three to seven. So see the adult one, 18. So Justin's fucking his kids up. Yeah. I'm only giving them one instead of two. I had a friend in junior high.

Starting point is 00:34:14 I had a friend in, uh, let's see, I think he was a freshman. Full beard. Yeah. There was, there was, there's always that one kid. Yeah. There was a kid, there was a kid that had like sixth, seventh grade. He already had like a goatee. Oh yeah. Shaving every day.

Starting point is 00:34:27 Yeah. Like what? But then later the first one was back hair. The first one to go bald. It was the first one. That's crazy. Hey, you guys want to hear something crazy that is as real that I, I heard and I thought, Oh, is that real? And then I looked it up. It's real. Okay. So the moment that a human sperm enters a female egg. Okay, I've seen this video. So you know, okay, you know the whole thing, right? You got the egg and you got all these sperm coming to it and a bunch of

Starting point is 00:34:56 them are trying to get in and for whatever reason the egg lets just one in. Right, it lets some of them that are just trying their damnedest and they can't get in. Yeah, I love those videos, too And one of them gets in yeah the moment it gets in and it starts in it's about to divide Yeah, there's a flash of light. I know they captured it for the first time Yeah, a real flash of light. They captured it. They've captured it took a picture picture of it. The moment of life. It's like, pssh. Yeah. I'm going to pull light. I'm going to. This is the cool part about science right here,

Starting point is 00:35:28 is the fact that we've got technology that could actually prove and show this. Yes. Yeah. No, no. I'm going to see if I can pull it up here. Yeah, OK. So they actually, OK, for the first time ever,

Starting point is 00:35:38 this was back in 2016. For the first time ever, scientists have captured images of the flash of light that sparks at the very moment a Human sperm cell makes contact. So does it with an egg flash within the egg? Is that where it's flashing it within the egg? Is it where's it? Where's the light coming from? I mean, it's within the egg and around it. So it's like like it like something happens, right? Yes So they said reaction they're saying it's a rapid release of zinc

Starting point is 00:36:04 That causes it so like a rapid release of zinc that causes it. So like a rapid release of zinc causes this kind of flash of light. So what I love about science is I think science allows us to peer into the design of God's work. I think we can look at it because there's an order to everything, right? So we can peer in and kind of see, and just because we can explain it, doesn't make it any less miraculous. Like, oh, it's ink.

Starting point is 00:36:28 Well, what do you think? Was it just magic? Yeah. There's obviously something happening. But I do think that it's fascinating that the moment that that egg gets fertilized, that it makes light. It creates light.

Starting point is 00:36:39 How crazy is that? Oh, there it is right there. Yeah. That's a cool image over there. Isn't that cool? The second one, you can tell. Yeah, I heard about this and then I was like, but have they seen it for real

Starting point is 00:36:50 or is this just what they say? Yeah. And sure enough, sure enough, they have it. Isn't that cool? Yeah, it's super cool. Isn't that, I love that kind of stuff. Well, it's even crazier, it's like you hear people that try and tell stories

Starting point is 00:36:58 of like when they were born and they saw some bright light or some shit like that. Do some people remember that? Yes, dude, you hear people say stuff like that, dude? Can I just tell you something now? I would hate to remember that. I would hate to remember that. Of course. Coming out of your mom? No.

Starting point is 00:37:14 No. It would be class of forever. I wouldn't be able to look at my mom in the eyes. So what's the science that proves or supports why most of us only remember so far back? Like why is it it's almost like almost everybody's around four or five, right? Like that's typically the age almost anybody I ever talked to that can recall their furthest memory back It's because in our those memories still there. We just have sort of like Deprioritize them and and created other space. I've looked at that

Starting point is 00:37:44 So it shouldn't be that because we have so much room already, right? It's not like we're running other space? I've looked this up. So that's why, it shouldn't be that because we have so much room already, right? It's not like we're running out of space. So I've looked this up, right? So you, when you start to develop language, you start to remember things based off of words and language. And so you form memories based off of your understanding of communication in the world. But that doesn't mean you don't remember. Your body remembers feelings, it remembers events.

Starting point is 00:38:08 So this is why a... Well, it's why trauma, you... Yeah, people that don't even realize they have trauma. That's right. Like an infant that's born under traumatic... I tell this story all the time. For us, tends to have issues later on. I tell this story about my childhood

Starting point is 00:38:21 with my siblings and us. We have a 10 and 12 year gap. And yet we all grew up in the same kind of crazy house. They were, they were, they don't remember it because by the body does well, because my, my, my stepdad and my mom were divorced by the time they were like five and seven. So by the time like really memory stuff starts for them, they had already divorced. But let me tell you, years zero to five was crazy in our house for them.

Starting point is 00:38:50 Like I know it was. It was loud and not good and unhealthy. But to them, they think their parents had an okay relationship. But yet then you have my sister and I who were 10 years older, who were like clearly like, oh no, it wasn't good. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:39:03 But we were old enough to discern that this is not good behavior, this is bad. And so her and I have this like- You at least had the awareness. Yeah, we had enough awareness for it so that we're repulsed by that type of behavior. My sister, my sister Cassie was only a year younger than me. I mean, we're like, she has, she's,

Starting point is 00:39:20 I've told stories before where I was like, if a girl like raised her voice at me, I'd be like out. Like, Ted said, like, I'm not working through this because I was so repulsed by that type of behavior. She's like that now that the younger ones, they don't have that. In fact, they're drawn a bit to it because I think that that normalized it for them. Even, and even though they don't remember it, they heard it and were around it and stuff like that. And they just probably believe this is normalcy to them Even though they they don't have a lot of memories to it

Starting point is 00:39:49 So yeah I think that they have this trauma that they don't even realize they have trauma about because it was before they can they can Remember that's the theory because your body does remember Your body your feelings your your central nervous system. You just can't articulate it. You don't have the same awareness It's just it's awareness. It's just there, it's just there. So you hear, like when you talk to people who, like if you start talking about adopting, we're like, you know, I'm thinking about adopting a child.

Starting point is 00:40:13 You talk to people who have adopted children, who let's say were one years old, but they came from a really traumatic household or something like that, they'll tell you like, oh, it's gonna be work. Even though from one on, they're with you and you're a stable home and loving, from zero to one, whatever they experienced

Starting point is 00:40:32 is still with them, even though they can't remember, you know, type of deal. Imagine how difficult that is to work through that trauma when you don't even realize you have it. Yeah. You know, how difficult that has to be. It's like, I already think it's hard. It's hard enough to know that you have patterns, behaviors, and things that you've carried

Starting point is 00:40:48 and you're like, I need to work on that. It's like a bad behavior, a bad thing of mine, right? And so you're actively working on it. You know, how difficult it must be when you've got a lot of this stuff that's buried so deep, you're not even cognizant or aware that you've got it, yet it's steering the ship. You know? Wow. It's a lot of people like ship. You know? It's a lot of people like that. It is. It's a lot of people.

Starting point is 00:41:07 I found a study on exercise and its effect on mortality. It's actually one of the best studies that we've seen in a long time. I'll pull it up here. Before you go into that study, because we were talking about behaviors and trauma and stuff like that, I think it's a good time to talk about

Starting point is 00:41:24 what rock recovery is. Oh, good point. I mean, we're sitting here talking trauma and stuff like that. I think it's a good time to talk about what Rock Recovery is doing. Oh, good point. I mean, we're sitting here talking about that so like that, and I think partnering up with them has been so cool. So they're a rehab facility, good friends of ours. They do a phenomenal job, and what they did, we had them on the podcast.

Starting point is 00:41:38 We had the gentleman that kind of run things over there. Tom. Yeah, and they're really, really good people. Just really, really great guys. You got to check out that episode. And what they did afterwards is they wanted to give a scholarship to one of our listeners, 60 day scholarship. It's valued at like $60,000. This is $60,000.

Starting point is 00:41:59 You see those places are expensive. They are. You go stay there. They take care of you the whole deal, help you become sober. They gave one away. The gentleman going through it, we've been in contact with doing exceptional, they decided to continue doing this. Every other month, they're going to give away.

Starting point is 00:42:16 What's cool what they're doing is, obviously if you have you or a family or a friend or someone you want to enter for, you can do this for somebody else. Maybe you're trying to get a family member involved. Yeah, you can enter them in. You can enter in. And everybody who enters, they're actually doing a free consultation for them. So even just-

Starting point is 00:42:33 Regardless. Yeah, regardless, they're contacting everybody, doing whatever they can, because they've been able to at least, some people that didn't win it, they've been able to point them in a direction or give them some sort of help and support. And so anybody and everybody that enters to at least when they're trying to help one way

Starting point is 00:42:47 or another and then at least one person will actually win the scholarship and that's valued at $60,000. So then you go, it's rockrecoverycenter.com forward slash mind pump and you enter in, you'll get a consult regardless. Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt, but I mean, that was like we were sitting there talking about like trauma, like how many people that are addicted to stuff many times are are battling with like which that's the type of stuff they get into in that 100% yeah, totally all right back to the study. So this is a large study And it was done over years and years and years. I'll pull up the data

Starting point is 00:43:20 Between they looked at a group that that, they followed a group between 1970 and 1991. So they, and they controlled for everything, right? Diet, lifestyle, all they wanted to see was how much did being fit reduce your mortality? 47%, so almost 50%. So just being fit. So you could be healthy everywhere else, you could whatever, or none of those things.

Starting point is 00:43:44 But if you're fit, you will cut your mortality risk by almost 50% Explain what they're measuring right there like fitness level the your ability to run on a treadmill your strength just being fit Not body fat not weight nothing just be just performance so so if you're overweight You're for whatever you, for whatever reason, your mortality risk is here. If you become fit, even if you don't lose any weight, you've cut it by 50%, right? So in other words, regardless of everything else,

Starting point is 00:44:14 just being fit alone, if you change, nothing else, you just go get more stamina, you just go get stronger, you improve your mobility, you do nothing, nothing, nothing else, you'll improve your mortality risk by almost 50%. How cool is that? Just because you're more resilient. That's like a big deal because it doesn't require a lot of work.

Starting point is 00:44:32 You could go to the gym a few days a week and just do that and do nothing else. It is so good, but it's also one of the things that makes me worried about the GLP ones. Totally. Because for the longest time it's been obesity, obesity. It's because we're so obese. And that's why when really, even if you were overweight,

Starting point is 00:44:55 if you were fit because you were active and you did stuff physically, lifted weights, you did at least of that. But you had a terrible diet. But you at least of that. Studies like this are showing what it does for your mortality rate, which is more important. And unfortunately, GLP-1s, I think, are revolutionary. I think we're going to see it work magic and wonders for so many people. We're going to see

Starting point is 00:45:14 a lot of people lose weight. But then the question is, is that become an easy fix to solve the obesity thing? But then it just exacerbates that. Yeah. They did paint the picture forever that it was just because you're overweight is all the symptoms of you being unhealthy. Right. And that, uh, yeah, studies like this are showing that that's just not even, that's a tiny bit of the pie. Yeah. If, if you lose weight, but then you're not fit.

Starting point is 00:45:39 Uh, so if you're skinny, but not fit skinny, but not strong, and because because you're just eating a little you can actually make yourself worse off Yeah, then you were before especially if you go into it with not I mean one of the things that When I went through the GLP one experience, you know intentionally to kind of share that with the audience You know one of the major huge you know, one of the major huge positives that I had working for me is the amount of muscle that I had already built going into it. So I could lose some muscle. Yeah, so I could lose 20 pounds of muscle and it not be a big deal. But if you're already somebody who doesn't work out or never has worked out and built a bunch of muscle on your body, and all you've done is put on body fat for decades,

Starting point is 00:46:25 and then you decide to do this GLP-1, and yeah, it cuts the body weight in half, but half of what you had of muscle that you've never really built is not a good place to be either, and you have to ask, is it worse? Are you worse down 50 pounds from being obese, but you've lost the little bit of muscle

Starting point is 00:46:47 that you actually had? Brittle, you know, at that point. In the extreme sense, by the way, if you look at the data, I'm going extremes now, everybody, so just bear with me. Overweight is you get older, not obese, but being overweight, because there's a difference, right? Obese is even further than that.

Starting point is 00:47:01 Being underweight is worse for your health than being overweight as you get older. It's actually worse for your mortality. So it's not great to just eat little and not be active and just, oh cool, I'm skinny now, but you've just made yourself more frail because of it. Now that being said, I do think that what you're gonna see with a lot of people on GLP-1s,

Starting point is 00:47:23 and I think it's a net positive, and maybe I'll change my mind, but for the time being, I think it's a net positive. I do think a lot of people are going to go on GLP-1s, and that spark is going to get them to then- I mean, that's what we hope. I mean, I think that's why we... I'm still with you. I still remain positive. And the thing that I still go back to that I thought was so amazing was the food noise thing yeah because that can be a lot of we're

Starting point is 00:47:49 talking about trauma right it's been what we've been talking about today a lot of people medicate with food a lot of people that didn't go to people who medicate do it with right and so if you have trauma you medicate if you don't but you find you medicate with food, it's easy to justify because it's fuel and you need it. And so you could go years and decades of feeding this addiction, not realizing what an addiction is until you did something like this. And then that kind of opens your eyes of like, oh, wow. And that to me, that is so whether you stick with it and keep going forever, becoming aware

Starting point is 00:48:26 is such a powerful thing. Have you guys seen on social media the new trend? They're calling it the new Ozempic. What's that? Okay. Oh God. People are, this is, by the way, this is not a new trend. I've said this before.

Starting point is 00:48:38 When you look at the diet and health and fitness space, things get recycled. Always. Always, they just get recycled. The Thigh Master back? No. That's come back, it'll come back, dude. We should get on that, by the way. We should get on that.

Starting point is 00:48:52 We should get the patents out. Yeah, dude. They expire, right? Patents always expire. They do. What's the, what's the, how long? It's a long time. Oh, is it a long time?

Starting point is 00:48:59 Yeah, very long time. So, the new Ozempic. Ass Master. People are, don't look that, can you Google that, see if that exists? The new Ozempic, people are, don't look that, can you Google that, see if that exists? The new Ozempic, people are posting on social media, is giving yourself a tapeworm. And people are literally posting and saying,

Starting point is 00:49:17 I gave myself tapeworm, I lost so much weight. How is that any better than the girl who sticks her finger down her throat and throws up in the bathroom? How is that any better? Did you guys know that that was one of the first one of the first diet pills that were ever sold were? Effective eggs they would sell them and people would buy them back in the early 1900s because it would help people lose weight Oh my god You gotta post the videos of how they got to get them out. Oh

Starting point is 00:49:42 You take a medication so gross tape one is easy to get rid of Really? Yeah kill it and then you'd like and then you poop it out. Oh, you take a medication. So gross. Tape one is easy to get rid of. Really? Yeah. Kill it and then you like, and then you poop it out. Oh, I thought you had to like, no, I remember seeing some videos. Somebody had like a bowl of, I don't know, some kind of sugar or something. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, just comes out. It's disgusting. Yeah, it was just like. Oh, God, that was from a sci-fi movie. Because they started it and they were like. Dude, that would try to look at that. It was like coming up and out of their mouth. No, there's a tapeworm medication.

Starting point is 00:50:11 It's like one pill. You take it once and then it gets. Okay. Yeah, yeah, we've got good. Either way, what the hell are we doing? Yeah, why are you doing this? Stop it. It's so disgusting.

Starting point is 00:50:19 Can you just stop? It's actually becoming a trend online, huh? It's going popular on TikTok and on social media. And people are eating raw meat. That's about as good as this movie I was forced to watch. Speaking of trauma, since we're on this theme today. Yeah, like it was New Year's Day and we were just kind of sitting around and like one of my wife's sister, her friends was like, Oh, have you guys ever seen Jupiter ascending? That's a sci-fi movie, right? Yes. By the Wachowski brothers, right? The guys that

Starting point is 00:50:48 did a matrix. Some was like, no, I've never, never even heard of it. It might be good. Channing Tatum is like the lead actor in it. There's like some other, like, uh, what's that one girl from Mila Kunis. Thank you. She's in there. And so terrible movie watchers all over. I know all this. No, you know why I know all this no, you know Now of course you have to watch it you're gonna die absolutely die laughing It's so it's the worst movie and they tried so hard to put so much money to the cool to look cool Just just for one thing like so he's called a like a tint and so he's like he supposedly is this like Genetically sort of half wolf half and it makes no sense why he's that right?

Starting point is 00:51:34 But that's one thing the other thing he has these this technology these boots that like fly and so there's a scene That's just absurd like it's everything's normal until this point where all of a sudden he rolls in. He rolls in with these flying boots and he's like ice skating in the air and then like blocking shit. Go back to what you were on. Bro, there's just, there's so, and this guy whispers the whole time.

Starting point is 00:51:57 So here's what. Read what Reddit says. Oh my God, this is a fucking. It's incomprehensible nonsense, it's stupid. It's a bit stupid. It's so incredibly awful that you get sucked in So I so they made a lot of decisions in this movie. They were horrible Here's why I remember this was

Starting point is 00:52:14 2015 so it's an old movie. Yeah, I remember this because the imagery I love sci-fi I'm like just like Justin a big sci-fi. Yeah, and I remember the Claire I remember the imagery looked cool. I was like, oh, this is going to be a good movie. And then I read a couple reviews, and they're like, it's the dumbest. And I said, I never watched it. It's so fucking bad. It's literally the worst movie I've ever seen in my life.

Starting point is 00:52:37 It's so good because of that. Are you guys both not, do you guys not use Rotten Tomatoes? Do you not think that's a good gauge? I do. You do? I do sometimes. OK. But I don't go out looking at so here's a deal because I feel like go ahead and pull that up on rotten tomatoes I would like to see what they said like I'd be surprised broke a 50 did it break a 50

Starting point is 00:52:56 no I think you got a terrible oh yeah it's like I will so negative if it's on the cusp you might get me like if there's something that I watch a preview I'm like I kind of want to watch this then I go to rotten tomatoes and it's like if it's like 70 that's like that's kind of on the cusp it's get me like if there's something that I watch a preview I'm like I kind of want to watch this and I go to Rotten Tomatoes and it's like if it's like 70 that's like that's kind of on the cusp it's like it's not my probably not gonna be good but maybe it'll be my liking and so I'll watch it but if it's below 60 yeah 27 and 38. And 38, yeah. You couldn't pay me to watch that. No. You can't pay me to watch that.

Starting point is 00:53:27 Well, that's the thing. Not that many people can be wrong. You have to watch it. Ironically, it's so good. It's so good. It's so funny. So bad is good. Yes.

Starting point is 00:53:35 That is a thing. You know, like it's torture, but it's hilarious. So do you guys have any, like, Rotten Tomato rules like that? Like, I, like, have you... No, so here's the thing. So tell me how you guys use it. You've told me this before. Okay.

Starting point is 00:53:43 I don't purposely go to Rotten Tomatoes, but if I type in a movie... Yeah. So do you guys have any like Rotten Tomato rules like that? Like I like if you know, so here's the thing. So tell me how you guys before Okay, I don't purposely go to Rotten Tomatoes, but if I type in a movie, yeah Sometimes the Rotten Tomatoes catch my guy. That's what happens. You know, so I will I will not watch anything without at least go checking that Yeah, that's okay Cuz it's like and that to me is the rule the rule is and everybody can have their own like whatever your your cutoff is But I have never watched a movie under 50. Okay, let me see And that to me is the rule. The rule is, and everybody can have their own, like whatever your cutoff is, but I have never watched a movie under 50.

Starting point is 00:54:07 That was good. Let me see if I agree with this, because I watched some of Gladiator Part II over the weekend. Looked that up on Rotten Tomatoes. Not that good. Oh, I liked it. It was all right.

Starting point is 00:54:16 You watched it? Yeah, I watched it. Katrina really liked it. It was the same shit. I didn't, well, There was nothing. Well, they played into the same story, though. It was the same thing.

Starting point is 00:54:23 It was still good acting. It was yeah, see it was good So I would it would land a 70 for me. That's exactly what it would land for me I would say it's a 70 I would not it wasn't a fair score first gladiator was 90. I mean that was epic It's up there with one of my favorite movies. It was like recycled. That's why that's why yeah Because but have you never seen the first one you watched that that was a good bro The scene where he fights the baboon come on. I know that Yeah, what are you doing? Well? Yeah, it's like super I mean, I think that's an accurate reading 71 is what I would have I would have died out What do you give the first one? Oh wow?

Starting point is 00:54:58 Yeah, no, dude. The first one was amazing was amazing. It was great. Yeah, I would give the first one a 90 So you go pretty solid now. So what's your score that you will watch a movie? So I will consider it at 70, as low as 70. If it's something I already want, like if I watch a preview and I'm like, oh I want to watch this, and then I go check Rotten Tomatoes and it's like 70, I'm like, ugh. I'll watch it. So 70 is kind of the...

Starting point is 00:55:18 Yeah, that's the cutoff. I won't even entertain it if it's below that. No matter what. But if I'm like iffy and it's below, normally anything below 80, Katrina and I are like iffy and it's below normally anything below 80 Katrina let's look for something else we could find something over 80. What's a crappy movie that you like but you know is crappy? Do you have one? Oh yeah I watched something not that long ago that actually had a pretty bad score but I thought was like you know like movies that are like your taste like um we all like like a Napoleon Dynamite probably got a low score. No way.

Starting point is 00:55:45 Yeah but it's exactly it's a cult classic that's why it's called a cult classic because a cult of people like it but not everybody likes it. Go look at Napoleon. Tell me what it pulls up. Yeah, let's see. But I mean that's an example. I could be wrong as far but that type of- So let's see if it's over 70. Oh, that's over 70. So something, I mean I'll think of some, almost everything I watched would be 70 or more. So it's hard to find but there is But there's been something I've watched before that it was, but I know that. I know there's certain types of movies that I like that are like, okay, this is my taste,

Starting point is 00:56:11 but I know it's probably not gonna get a very good score. Here's something else I'll tell you is obviously the people that are in charge of stuff, Tindaline, liberal. And so if it's like a strong conservative movie, like I can feel it's a strong conservative movie. Well then you'll probably see the critics with a low score, but the audience with a high score.

Starting point is 00:56:27 Yes. Okay. Yeah, and so that'll get me to watch something still, like I'm like, oh, I know I got a low score. You know what I started watching was that dating show, you said, Later Daters. Oh, is that good? Yeah, it is. I got Katrina's mom to watch it, she loves it too.

Starting point is 00:56:38 It's so good. It's actually pretty good. It's good. Okay, so what's your take on, why is it better than the other ones? Do you remember what I said? Because it's real. Because it is real. Yeah. You can tell they're all, they don't care. They're not trying to get Instagram or social media famous. They like really want to find love. And so it's, it's a, there's that one dude that, that used to be a jumper,

Starting point is 00:56:58 in the military, a fit black dude. Yeah. And a friend of his that comes over that he has a daughter with, but they're just friends. Yeah. Why don't they date? You'll get to that. Oh they do? Yeah, yeah they call them out eventually because the series goes on. Then finally the guy behind the camera is just like, all right, elephant in the room, why are you two not together? Because they're so great together and the whole thing goes that way. Because they're like amazing together. Yeah, they're like best of friends. I mean my brother-in-law with his baby's mama are like that. It's so wild to me. They haven't been together for 15 years or more and uh

Starting point is 00:57:32 We go do family events together. The two of them hang out. He goes over there and she'll be like Oh, I need some help around the yard or that he'll go there on a Wednesday night after work and like help her out Like they have the greatest relationship if you watch them, but they they've already gone down that path. Yeah. So some people are like that. Like they've dated and they go, we're not compatible, but we like each other. And they're an example of that where I think that, I mean, I think sometimes like, even though Katrina and Everett never tried dating, I remember when I first, when I first met Katrina, it was really weird that she, her best friend and roommate was this good looking black dude. And Everett's got a fit, good looking dude. He's fit, he's good looking, he can cook. Like my boys got game, you know what I'm saying? And here's my girl living with them. Like, that's my best friend. I'm like,

Starting point is 00:58:15 Oh yeah, you're a best friend. I bet he's your best friend. But they really are. They go all the way back to like elementary school and they grew up in the same- That's rare though. It is rare. And it took a while for me. And once you get to know him, you know. Oh yeah. Once I got to know Everett and stuff like that and how Katrina, Katrina's kind of like the boys like that. And so she's, it was definitely a friendship and they still,

Starting point is 00:58:34 they, we all are the best of friends to this day. I remember when I first like found that out and you, you expect when a girl says, oh my friend, you're like, you're not going to see this good looking black dude walk in. It was like, oh, yeah, Everett's, you know, ripped abs. He's got, you know what I'm saying? He can cook. He's like really good looking.

Starting point is 00:58:52 He's got a mouthpiece on him. It's like, oh, yeah. Okay. Luckily, I'm like a secure dude. So I was more like, oh, okay, sure. Like I thought for sure after we'd been together for a while, I was going to guess, yeah, I was going to get a story. Oh yeah. Well, we tried dating but no they never they never once Did that or anything like that? But I think they because they were like literally elementary little kids. Yeah, they literally I think five years old

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Starting point is 00:59:48 Go to drinklmnt.com forward slash mind pump and on that link you'll get a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase. All right, back to the show. This segment of the podcast is brought to you by trainerwebinar.com. This is where Adam and I get on and teach trainers how to build more successful businesses

Starting point is 01:00:06 and become more effective with their clients, their free seminars, trainerwebinar.com. First caller is Leslie from Missouri. What's up, Leslie? How you doing, Leslie? Hi. How can we help you? Okay, so I'm kind of just gonna read my question

Starting point is 01:00:20 that I sent in so I don't go on a tangent, if that's okay with you guys. Please. Okay, okay with you guys. Please. Okay, okay, so just background information. I'm 26 currently. I do have a long past of struggling with like eating disorders, body dysmorphic disorder. I've done all the diets.

Starting point is 01:00:40 I have done all the TikTok workouts and I have definitely over trained since I was like 16 probably So last year I actually did hire a coach and I spent a year with them and when I was with them I gained like a ton of strength, but I also gained 30 pounds, but I wasn't a bulk Just to make that known I wasn't a bulk, but it was very hard mentally on me. And I think they helped me a lot,

Starting point is 01:01:10 but I don't think the programming was the best for me. And I wasn't allowed to really do any cardio. I asked if like walking like on an incline would be okay, and they didn't really want me to do that because that wasn't the goal. The goal was to bulk and to gain weight and strength. So presently I run all mind pump programs because I've always had the best results

Starting point is 01:01:37 using your programs. But with that being said, some days I kind of feel like I didn't do enough. So my question is, is lifting, like just my lifting workout, is that okay or do I need to like throw in cardio? Yeah, great question. And it depends on what we're trying to accomplish and the context matters a lot too, Leslie.

Starting point is 01:01:59 So I'm gonna go back a little bit. You had struggled with eating disorders, body dysmorphia, overtraining. Was this towards the anorexia bulimia side or was it the other kind of dysmorphia where you feel like you're not big enough? I'm assuming it's more towards you were always trying to get smaller? Yeah. Okay, because it's the most common one, especially with young women.

Starting point is 01:02:21 So with that, understanding that, understanding your tendency, I can see why your coach told you to avoid extra activity or extra exercise. Now, if this, if, you know, under most circumstances, if I'm just looking at like a generic or it's a generic question, the average person, you know, the perfect routine incorporates strength training, some cardiovascular training, some mobility, you know, flexibility type training, you know, the perfect routine incorporates strength training, some cardiovascular training, some mobility, flexibility type training. All those things have benefit, but because of your background, it sounds like that might be a slippery slope.

Starting point is 01:02:56 Even if you had not told me that, I would have kind of guessed that because you said two things here that are contradictory. You said, I'm running mind pump programs to give me the best results, and then I feel like I'm not doing enough. And so the question is enough for what? Is it for results, or is it because you simply feel like you can do more, or you need to do more, or you need to be in more pain,

Starting point is 01:03:17 or there needs to be more activity? That's the question. So what do you mean I'm not doing enough? Does it just feel like you have more time on your hands? What do you mean by that? I think that has to do more with my past issues, just like I feel like I didn't do enough. It's not that my workouts aren't hard enough,

Starting point is 01:03:36 it's just like in my brain I'm like, oh I need to get up and I need to go do something else. Yeah, I think someone like you, the struggle, at least right now, is gonna be not doing too much. I don't think you have a struggle like a lot of people do which is not doing enough. So your challenge is gonna be to stop,

Starting point is 01:03:57 not to start, or to keep going. It sounds like you had a pretty good coach. Granted, 30 pounds sounds like a lot, but how much of that did he say or you decide you needed to put on that? Like was, were you really, really lean before like, and you needed to put on probably a good healthy 20 pounds. It was that part of the goal was to gain that much or did you just, uh,

Starting point is 01:04:20 end up gaining that much weight? Um, I, I was pretty lean. I mean, I would say I was about 115, 120. And how tall were you? Are you? Five, four. Okay. And so now you're like a one 50.

Starting point is 01:04:35 Yeah. Yeah. And you look lean. I can see your arms and shoulders. You look fit. So it sounds like it was healthy. Right. Do you feel healthier?

Starting point is 01:04:42 How's your, your menstrual cycle? Was there changes in that? Yeah, I actually got it back. So it was really good for me. I will admit it. It's just the mental part. Sounds like you had a pretty good coach. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like they're giving you the right advice and sounds like you're healthier and better and something you're in pretty damn good shape. Did you let go of that coach? What's up with that? I did. She was quite expensive, so I just kind of

Starting point is 01:05:13 let go of that part. Leslie, you're- I kind of got everything from her that I needed. I mean, you're doing phenomenal. You're doing really well based off of what you've told us. The mental, you have to work on the mental side, not the physical side. Your work is not in the workout. Your work is in the mental, how you view yourself, your relationship to exercise, when you use it versus when you abuse it. Same thing with diet. That's going to be the challenge.

Starting point is 01:05:41 And that's where you need to put your focus, not the workout. that's gonna be the challenge, and that's where you need to put your focus, not the workout. Focusing on the workout itself isn't gonna solve this issue for you and can lead you astray. I would, if you were to hire somebody else to work with, I would hire with somebody that works on that.

Starting point is 01:05:59 I think that would benefit you far more. Like our friend Christina would be great for her. That's right. Yeah, Christina would be really good for you. What math program are you running right now? I just got done with Muscle Mommy, so I'm running anabolic right now. Excellent.

Starting point is 01:06:13 Yeah, those are great programs for you. Excellent. Yeah, those are great choices. Yeah, and you're young too, you're so young. I'm so glad you did this at your age. A lot of women don't figure this out so much later, but this is gonna be a struggle for a little while for you. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:06:26 Yeah, I mean, I'm 45, I still struggle with this sometimes. So, um. Are you in our forum, Leslie? I am not. Okay, I'd like Doug to put you in there, so we'll put you in there for free. See if we can connect her with a good coach. Yeah, and if we can't connect to you,

Starting point is 01:06:39 at least allow us to be your support. It sounds like you just might need a little bit of that. Every once in a while, you probably get in your head, you know, and then write us a message on there, tag us, and let us remind you that you're doing a great job. And maybe that by itself will be enough to keep you heading there on the right path, because it sounds like you've done a really good job

Starting point is 01:06:57 and you're heading the right way and doing great. You just need to be reminded that every once in a while. And to be fair, there's nothing wrong with walking extra. There's nothing wrong with doing some cardio. As long as it doesn't become obsessive. Yeah. And then so if that's your fear and you know where it's coming from, if you know where it's coming from and you know where it's probably going to lead to, then I would avoid it.

Starting point is 01:07:17 Can we place that extra energy into learning something? Is there anything you're passionate about that you can kind of go on these walks, slow walks and listen to the audiobooks or do something constructive so it feels like, I don't know if it's a thing where you just don't feel like you're as productive because I go through that sometimes. Yeah, I think that's it. I mean, I'm a teacher so I'm really into math so I guess I can work on my math knowledge. Wow.

Starting point is 01:07:46 There you go. That's awesome. All right. Yeah, you know, do you have MAPS Power Lift? I don't, no. Do you like being strong? I do, yeah. I think that would be a great program for you to just run

Starting point is 01:07:57 because it's so strength focused that it might take your mind off of just, I need to do more, I need to do more cardio, maybe get smaller, whatever, because it's all about what you can do. Yeah. I'll send that to you. I'd be up for that.

Starting point is 01:08:11 I'll send it to you. That'd be a great program. Okay, thank you. Also just keep in touch with us, either monthly or bi-monthly, Leslie. Check in with us, let us know how you're doing. If you have a question like this, just post it in there and let us help you through this process. Okay, awesome.

Starting point is 01:08:24 Thank you guys. All right, Leslie. You. Okay, awesome. Thank you guys. You got it Leslie, thank you. Yeah, it sounded like she had a pretty good coach. That's right. I know. And that's why they said don't do cardio. Yeah, initially, you know, someone here is 30 pounds gaining weight on a woman.

Starting point is 01:08:39 Like, oh my God. And think, oh my God, but I had a feeling that probably 20, 25 of that was needed. Absolutely. Right? And so in that situation She didn't really really well never menstrual cycle now. She does like it's huge it is and This is what you know for coaches and trainers listening. I mean for everybody listening right now Health isn't super cut and dry black and white because from a black and white perspective be like yeah

Starting point is 01:09:01 I had cardio what a dumb piece of advice to not do any cardio. You should walk more. It's good for you. You're only strength training. You're sedentary otherwise. But in the context of what she's struggled with, that is the wrong direction to go right now. It will actually lead to worse health, not better health. And mental health is health.

Starting point is 01:09:20 So just something to consider for the coaches listening right now, when you work with a client, when you advise people to do things and when you advise people to not do things, you have to take the entire picture into consideration. Our next caller is Jen from Delaware. Hey Jen, how can we help you? How you doing? How's it going?

Starting point is 01:09:38 Hi. Um, I'm so happy to be on. Um, I, I'm going to try and summarize my question a little bit. First off, thank you so much for having a sustainable lifestyle of fitness focus instead of extreme nonsense. And I've been listening for about three years and have lost about 100 pounds in the last three years. And just like have a, I don't know, like most elder millennial women, I've got all the stuff, all the baggage. And so just like food issues and things have been to counselors and dealt with that.

Starting point is 01:10:37 Right now I'm in a place where I lift three times a week and I do a full body day, an upper body day, and a lower body day. And I sent you my picture. I feel like my upper body is more muscular than I want to look and Anything I've looked up about this everyone's like women just don't get muscular like that on and so So I don't know and people are like well if you get to a point where you feel yours too muscular just back it off

Starting point is 01:11:19 but when I do that I If I just drop like bicep and tricep exercises I clean houses for a living so then my elbows hurt because I'm not keeping up with my strength so I would like to stay strong but just have a longer inner look I know you can't actually make your arms longer but but yeah, I was, is there a method to sort of trimming down? I have been told by a surgeon at this point point that I don't have any more fat to lose. Um, and, uh, so I do have a lot of loose skin and that makes things more complicated probably, but, um, I'm just wondering if you guys have any, um, advice or if there is a, an approach to this.

Starting point is 01:12:26 Yeah, yeah. We could talk about how to schedule or program your workouts with strength training, because you can definitely target areas to build and other areas to lay off of, and we can adjust the volume so that you're training enough to maintain things like joint health. But I do want to ask you, Jen,

Starting point is 01:12:44 do you think you're being too hard on yourself? Um, I don't know. I don't know. I've been, uh, honestly, I've been at this so long. Like I've been trying to lose weight since elementary school. And like having my doctor tell me I was done was very weird.

Starting point is 01:13:07 Like I've never had a doctor say that to me. And I was kind of like, well, I feel like when I got here, I should feel small. Yeah. Um, but I don't, I still feel large. So. Yeah. But I don't. I still feel large. So, yeah. Well, so what happens oftentimes is when we have a struggle, one that's deep and it's lasted for a long time, we start to identify so strongly with it that when, you know,

Starting point is 01:13:37 maybe you're like, am I done with this struggle? Who am I? Like, what does this mean? And then the other thing, when you're attaching, trying to attach a feeling of fulfillment or happiness to how you look, very rarely do you accomplish it by changing how you look. So just consider that and keep that in mind as you go through this process because,

Starting point is 01:13:59 and all the data supports what I'm saying, all of it. When you look at the best data we have on happiness and appearance and aesthetics and all that stuff, Arthur Brooks, one of my favorite people, experts on the subject, he's a Harvard professor on this, bestselling author. He uses an example and he says, you could spend all your time and money on going from a six to a 10, let's say on a pretend scale of one to 10, and your happiness would barely improve at all. It might not even register.

Starting point is 01:14:31 So consider that and look at things that are actually proven to improve happiness and fulfillment and devote time there. Now I'm looking at your pictures, very fit. You've got great development. I think you've done an incredible job, especially considering where you've come from. But just consider with what I'm saying

Starting point is 01:14:54 because that work isn't gonna come from the outside, it's from the inside. So focus on that. Otherwise, what I'm about to tell you, and I will help you modify your workout, but it's not gonna give you what you're looking for it might change how you look but that's not gonna give you what you're looking for well of course not if you look at it look at the progress you've made it's incredible I mean what you've

Starting point is 01:15:14 done what you've done is unbelievable you're in great shape you're in now the doctors are even telling you you're in great shape you have no fat to lose yet you still don't feel that about you so even when Sal goes and tells you how to change out your arm exercises, maybe add some more leg stuff in there or other things, it's not going to solve the problem. I mean, sure, it might change a little bit of what your arms look like, but what's going on right now is the way you perceive yourself.

Starting point is 01:15:40 Cause the rest of us are telling you, you look great. And so it's got to start with you believing that and doing that work because the programming stuff again, he's going to, I already know what he's going to do, he's going to tell you to reduce some of the arm exercises that you're doing and exchange them out with some, you know, core leg exercises or glute work or something else that you enjoy or want. And it'll, it'll definitely change a little bit You'll probably you'll see a little bit difference on your arms. We'll we'll scale down a tiny bit

Starting point is 01:16:09 You'll see more development in the lower body But you probably won't perceive yourself that way and the reason why I think I can say that Confidently is because I'm looking at how great you already look and you don't perceive yourself that way So it this is not a programming issue. Yeah, so okay, so I guess objectively programming wise, you could literally do one or two sets per upper body body part just to maintain health and fitness. You won't lose strength, you'll have good mobility,

Starting point is 01:16:38 and then you can just add that extra volume to your lower body, and then you'll see a little bit more development of the lower body. So in other words, the total volume per week isn't gonna change, but it's gonna move from upper to lower. So I wouldn't avoid upper body exercises for the reasons you said.

Starting point is 01:16:54 You know, you don't wanna start developing imbalances. So one or two exercises per upper body exercise is enough. It's totally enough to maintain that health. And then you move the rest of the lower body. But again, I'm gonna tell you this. Yeah, that's it. Every per week. And then again, like, you've been chasing, you know, something for so long, and you got there. And the reason why it doesn't feel like it is because it's not there. It's not there. What you're looking for isn't there. It's somewhere else.

Starting point is 01:17:28 So there are places and areas that the data will show you that do give people that feeling that you're looking for. One of them is accepting yourself radically. And then it's also charity, helping others, teaching others, learning things, spiritual practices, they just show just a tremendous, tremendous return for time invested. So that's where I would say spend your time. Because if you try to look for that fulfillment from exercise, you're not going to get it. And listen, I'm talking from somebody who understands this better than anybody It is a bottomless pit and you will continue to chase it no matter what you look like

Starting point is 01:18:10 It's always gonna no matter what no matter what you're always gonna chase it and it's it's just it sucks And it sucks even worse when you get there. So that's what happened to you It's like the doctors like it almost would have been better for you not to get there Because then you have something to like chase, right? But now doctors like, yeah, you're lean. Oh crap, like what do I do now? So, you know, keep that in mind. And if you hire a coach and work with somebody,

Starting point is 01:18:34 work with someone who knows how to work with this, not the workout part, but rather the feeling around it, I think that'll be valuable for you. Jen, do you see anybody right now? Have you done anything like that? I have seen therapists many times and I'm not seeing anyone currently. I'm part of like a group coaching kind of group.

Starting point is 01:19:04 And I don't know, they just kind of congratulate me for being jacked. I'm like, but that's not the look I want. Jen, have you ever thought about, have you ever thought about, cause you clean houses for a living you said? Have you ever thought about coaching other people through fitness and health? I have. I haven't done any like training or anything. I was actually looking at like grad

Starting point is 01:19:38 programs. I have an undergraduate in psychology and was looking into maybe going back and helping people with eating disorders. You know what, Jen? I've been through so much. You know what, Jen? I think if you got, if you did some, some, like a fitness certification and you just started coaching people for free,

Starting point is 01:20:01 don't even make money, just take a few clients, someone like you, somebody who's going through it like you did and you just help them, I think that would give you so much more perspective. It would make you feel, it would really help you a lot by helping someone else and do it for free. I'm sure you have some friends or people you know who are struggling, like, look, I can help you, I went through it and I'm not going to charge you anything because I'm inexperienced, but let me just help you out I bet you that'll give you so much more

Starting point is 01:20:28 Fulfillment than than chasing this aesthetic goal that you have Well Adam and I teach webinars to trainers and coaches some of them I think will be valuable to you it's at trainerwebinar.com they're free attend those do we have a free forum for trainers too right? Yep. Yeah go on Facebook what's the name of the one on Facebook Doug? Mine pump trainers boy I never remember the name of that. Okay, we're gonna send you the name of this there's a free Facebook group for trainers and coaches and just go on there and just hear what they're saying or whatever and

Starting point is 01:21:13 If you I'm sure you I'm sure you probably know someone in your life That's probably would be like yeah, I'd love for you to help me do it for free I think that would be really valuable to you I think you would find a lot of fulfillment in that. What you're looking for right now with trying to change your body, you'll probably find by helping someone else through that process.

Starting point is 01:21:35 I'm open to that. Cool, let's do that. I hope to see you in the webinar. I think you'll like it, Jen. And if you're even considering being a trainer, they will be valuable to you. Totally. And by the way, it's Personal Trainer Growth Secrets powered by Mind Pump. All right, Personal Trainer

Starting point is 01:21:49 Growth Secrets. That's on Facebook. And if you go on there, tag us so we can welcome you in. Okay, thank you. Yeah, you got it. Thanks for calling in. All right, Jen. All right. That's tough, but I think... Well, the answer doesn't lie in programming. No, no, of course not. She's made such... I mean, the progress that she's made is profound. But what she's looking for is not in fitness progress. By the way, this is unbelievably common.

Starting point is 01:22:21 Yeah, super common. The reason why it doesn't seem as common maybe to the average person is because most people don't ever reach the goal. And so it's Report it that's right because they never get to this. No, that's why I'm not happy Yeah, so they so it's just like I haven't got there. I haven't got there and it's just this this broken Wheel that they keep trying to get on right and she's actually reached it enough to a point where doctors are saying you have no Fat to lose she looks ripped. She's getting complimented probably all over the place and then saying I'm not happy with this look whereas I bet you if she had a picture of that when she was a hundred pounds different oh my god I know what

Starting point is 01:22:55 I'll feel like when I get amazing that's right and but now that she's there it's so it's it's a it's will be forever elusive and fleeting you'll never get it and this is what happens to a lot of people who are out of shape and unhealthy. By the way, this is true for a lot, so many. I have a friend, I think we know him in common, who had this belief about making a certain amount of money. And he accomplished it and ended up on drugs.

Starting point is 01:23:20 Because he got there and he's like, this is not what I thought it would be. Well, you see this too, just chasing the next competitions consistently You just have to like try to try to sign up for something to be able to find that purpose That's right instead of finding it from within our next caller is Jay from Ohio. What's up, Jay? What's going on Jay? How can we help you? What's going on? What's going on fellas? First of all as everybody says thank you guys for the content amazing

Starting point is 01:23:48 So I I know everybody says it but I am I feel like I'm a little bit of a different case So when I was younger I Was like 400 pounds and when I I was like 400 pounds and when I, it was like 19 years old, so a, a beach body commercial for P 90 X, which is funny because you guys just released the episode with one of the beach body people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was really, that's really funny that that this is the on there, but I did the program probably like three times

Starting point is 01:24:26 along with insanity, lifting and swimming and playing basketball. And 19 year old energy apparently just took over and ended up losing 200 pounds. Wow. I joined the thank you. I joined the army and in the army, one of the pictures I sent you guys with my shirt off was when I was in the army and that was when I was like 22, 23 years old. So I played basketball in the army and when I got out, I was going to try to play at like a big college. I was going to try to go to Ohio State and walk on

Starting point is 01:25:07 ended up fracturing my ankle right beforehand and then Got better was going to try to play at the junior college here in town toward my ACL and so the The VA took a very long time to give me the surgery and so I had Gained a ton of weight. I know now that I'm an emotional eater like I eat I stress II so ended up us I

Starting point is 01:25:39 Don't know like a year after that after I got healed. I started a YouTube channel did to like Like a year after that, after I got healed, I started a YouTube channel to like document my fitness journey, ended up losing about 50 pounds and tore my ACL again playing basketball. So apparently my knees are just bad. So I ended up gaining more weight from that and got up to about 400 pounds again. So I've been 400 pounds twice in my life. I made the decision to get gastric sleeve surgery and in that process I ended up finding

Starting point is 01:26:20 you guys actually like six months before I had the surgery I ended up finding you guys. One of my buddies was like you need to check out this this mind pump podcast both blow and I was like, all right So I checked it out And you guys have a very long intro sometimes where you guys are just talking and I love it now but like when I was thinking of a Fitness podcast. I was like maybe they're I don't know. Maybe I just got the wrong episode. So like for like a month. I just didn't listen to you guys and then Started listening to you again

Starting point is 01:26:47 and uh ended up buying maps anabolic while I was in the process of Going through the vsg surgery And uh lost like I was at 415. I ended up losing about Like 40 pounds before my surgery to the point where I almost didn't get the surgery Because I was losing weight so rapidly and I was eating a lot. I was eating like 3500 4000 calories so I ended up getting it for like family reasons like family health reasons and While I was doing it I was while I was going through the surgery. I ended up like still lifting and still Trying to maintain as much muscle as I could I think like a year and a half afterwards my dietitian she was like

Starting point is 01:27:34 You look like you didn't have any surgery you look like you just lost weight because I had so much muscle and One of the I started back in school this was in 2022 I'm 33 years old. I started back in school. This was in 2022. I'm 33 years old. I started back in school and ended up playing basketball with one of the kids that was in my class. And he goes, you should play on the basketball team. And I was like, Well, I love basketball. I played it and I was going to try to play. So last year, I ended up trying out for the basketball team and making it and played more minutes than everybody else, even though I was a decade older than everybody else. That's great. Which is kind of funny. That's cool. And Adam, you'll love this. I averaged the double double. Wow. The games that I played. Wow.

Starting point is 01:28:17 That's impressive, bro. That's very cool. Going against going against 20 something year old children, it felt like. That's awesome. But so while this was going on, my wife was pregnant and I want to say like four days before I think our third game she gave birth to my son who is now a year old. And so I ended up earlier this year got a new job. My son had colic really bad So we didn't get any sleep

Starting point is 01:28:48 I Started a new job. I was in school and so trying to balance all that stuff. I ended up stress eating and Gaining I was at 250 when I was playing and I ended up gaining about 30 or 40 pounds and so when Adam when you started your journey on the Like road to building your muscle back up. I like two weeks after you started. I started doing it too nice And not to promote myself. I did on my youtube channel as well, which is funny. What? The first month I didn't do the body test.

Starting point is 01:29:27 The second month I did, and I was at like 192 pounds of lean body mass at 300 or 296 pounds. And then the next month I did like the bulk because it was over Thanksgiving. And so I did, I ended up building four pounds of muscle and losing four pounds of body fat in that time and so this last month which brings us up to now I I did the body test on Saturday like two days ago and My it was the almost the exact same which is good because my whole family was sick

Starting point is 01:30:05 so my Question for you guys is where would I go from here to? Lean out basically like I don't feel bad, and I've gotten all my blood work checked And I've gotten all my I've gotten my testosterone checked All within the good range. I think it was like 500 and I've never taken TRT or I've never done anything like that My blood work all came in the normal range. I feel great. So it's not a vanity thing I don't I don't want to like do it to look good But I also know I play basketball once or twice a week sometimes and I also know that my knees

Starting point is 01:30:47 Will be better if I'm lighter. Yeah for sure like mine so especially after having knee surgery and I'm strong like Relatively, I just did all my My lifts like my the core lifts or whatever just like the squat bench dead deadlift overhead press in a row the other day and I squatted three 315 I deadlifted 370 actually the day that you popped your your hamstring. I

Starting point is 01:31:17 Did it and then watch that video so I didn't even know that you did it which was um I would have been I would have been a little bit more conscious had I watched that And then my bench was like 315 overhead press. I did 225 for like three reps and then Row I did 225 for three reps Jay. Where is uh, where are your calories at currently right now? This will help me so I Was about I was at like So I was about I was at like 3,000 just maintaining I got up to when I did like the little mini bulk I got up to about 4,000 or 4,200 the one of the issues that I have because I had

Starting point is 01:31:57 the VSD surgery it's hard for me to eat a lot about the fact that you were able to get up to 4,000 impressive but it sounds like you're actually probably at a really good calorie intake. 3,000 or so is given this nice even exchange of you're still building some muscle and you're losing body fat. It sounds like you're kind of in that goalie lock zone. And so what I would do is push up 400 or 500 calories, cut back 400 or 500 calories and toggle between a mini cut, mini bulk and

Starting point is 01:32:26 kind of hover around where you're at because you're in this, you could technically stay right where you're at and just continue this progress of building some muscle, losing some body fat every month too. But if you want to accelerate a little bit in one direction, I would just say, you know, run a slight surplus bulk bulk for a couple weeks, then go back to a cut, very similar to what I did in the series, and you're watching that, so. Yeah, for sure, it was amazing.

Starting point is 01:32:51 Yeah, I would follow a very similar protocol. I agree with that, I don't think you should do anything extreme, I think that's what's gotten in trouble in the past. So, slow and steady, mini-cut, mini-bulk. The thing I would focus on would be your workout programming because of your injury history. I think unilateral training and correctional exercise

Starting point is 01:33:12 should be staples for you. The new MAPS performance would be great for you. MAPS 15 performance would be a great program for you. MAPS symmetry too. MAPS symmetry would be another great program for you. Your tendency to tear ACL, I think you might have some hip or ankle mobility issues is typically where it comes from.

Starting point is 01:33:31 Yeah, no, absolutely. I do, I actually watched Squat University a lot. I bought his book. And so I've done a lot of the correctional exercises and stuff for, specifically for the knees and the hips and the ankles, which is my, I have, I have I mean as a basketball player you guys know like you Roll your ankles all the time stepping on someone's foot and doing all that stuff So that was one of the things and I have like weird

Starting point is 01:33:55 style you always talk about people with Michael Phelps body styles like or like People think that if you swim you'll be like Michael Phelps I am I'm six foot two and have a six six wingspan, but I have a 30 inch inseam I'm I'm that body style that you talk about all the time. Have you tried swimming? What's really funny is that when I was losing weight the first time I My buddy he's in the Air Force and he swam all the time and he's like you should come do it So I did it and there was a coach in there and he goes you have really you have good technique and stuff I was like, well, I'm kind of like a natural athlete. I played sports my whole life

Starting point is 01:34:33 He's like yeah, but like you have a really wide back and like long arms you can reach and go get it I'm like that makes sense. Yeah No, I think mass 15 performance and symmetry with mini cuts and mini bulks are gonna be the way to go for you. Yeah. Do you have any one of those programs? Um I believe that my wife just got me MAPS 15 performance. That's the one. Perfect. And that's what I mean I do rotate I'm I was doing MAPS performance the like original one this last like month I was on the second month of it so that's good the first month is where I was doing the the Maps

Starting point is 01:35:11 15 for the like just in general because I have a home gym that's good I like 15 performance for you because you're still playing basketball yes and because you have a child you have a one-year-old yeah so I think it's I think you should live there for most of most the time yeah and and I think, Jay, you're gonna see, I think the fact that you're, the last two months in a row, you've had this kind of even exchange of fat loss and muscle building.

Starting point is 01:35:32 That tells me you're in a really good place calorie-wise. Don't do anything extreme. So I wouldn't go any extreme direction, north or south of that, and then I love what Sal's saying with, I think you should reduce the volume of training in Maps 15 performance, which will be perfect for you. I think you should reduce the volume of training in Maps 15 performance, which will be perfect for you.

Starting point is 01:35:47 Especially if you're gonna keep playing basketball. If you're not gonna play basketball and you're gonna scale back on that, then maybe go to a performance or symmetry of full program like that. But I think Maps 15, you're gonna keep cruising along just like you are. You'll see nice, consistent progress.

Starting point is 01:36:01 Do you guys think that with doing the mini bulks and many cuts, do you think that I will just I'll be able to maintain the same amount of muscle and just drop the body fat? That's what I said. The idea. That's the idea. That's the idea. I mean, the way you're going, that's that there's a good chance you go extreme with a cut.

Starting point is 01:36:19 That's exactly that's where you start to sacrifice that. That's why where you're at is actually a really nice place because it tells me that you're feeding your body enough calories. It's still in a surplus sometimes because it builds muscle and then it's also in a little bit of a cut because it's burning body fat. So you're in this nice little place. Now you try and get aggressive and you're like, hey let's cut another 500 or a thousand calories. You might lose a little bit more fat, but you also might lose some muscle along the way too. So if we want to maintain every bit of muscle you can, you're at a really good spot right now. I would say stay the course just probably switch you to the the MAPS 15 performance program. That's it. Right. Yeah, no,

Starting point is 01:36:55 I think that's what I was gonna do anyway. Obviously like I told my I sent the link and everything to my wife. I was like get this right now. I wanted one it and she's she's a she thinks that I love you guys cuz I literally watch I've so I've been watching guys for like three years and So at my old jobs, I was a correctional officer, but where I was at there was like I was in the school of the prison So there was not really many people there and then sometimes there was just nobody there So I would just watch whenever you guys episodes came out I think they came out like 4 p.m. Your guys's time which was seven mine and so I would literally watch every single episode the day it came out

Starting point is 01:37:34 And then sometimes I'd watch multiple episodes. So I'm probably like a thousand or fifteen hundred deep You can love us. That's yeah. Yeah, it's You ever run the west you ever on the back you're ever on the west coast hit us up Have you come by and say hi at the studio for sure? Yeah, no doubt. That would be awesome No, uh adam my son is actually the same. My oldest son is the same age as your son So it's cool watching your guys here in your like progression because it's very close to what my son's doing. That's awesome right on. God bless. Is there any program we can send you? Yeah Jay what do you want? Maybe Symmetry. Oh yeah. No it's great if you don't have Symmetry we got you. We got you.

Starting point is 01:38:17 Alright man I appreciate you guys. Thank you. Have a good one guys. You too. Yeah for people listening right now repeated ACL injuries often come from the ankle and the hip. In fact you see this if you look at the data on female athletes their rate of ACL tears are something like two or three times that of a male athlete and it's the hip it's the hip angle. And you compound or exacerbate that with carrying additional weight and or a bunch of extra muscle that's not trained in the performance, right?

Starting point is 01:38:52 So that was like, all my injuries are coming like crazy, not just because of the ankle and hip stuff, but in addition to that, I was carrying 30 pounds more. Hyper-responsive muscle that's not like, yeah, balanced. Exactly, and so him leaning out will definitely help that, him continuing to address. And not going extreme, you know? Going extreme is what's going to cause all the problems. He's on, I mean, he's on the right pace, so stay there.

Starting point is 01:39:16 Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump. DeStefano Adams at Mind Pump. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic.

Starting point is 01:39:42 Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a 5-star rating and review on iTunes, and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family.

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