Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2516: Flat Bench Vs. Incline Bench… Which Builds a Better Chest?

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom.

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Ontario. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind there's only one place to go. Mind pump, with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we had live callers call in and we coached them on air,

but this was after the intro portion. Today's intro is 54 minutes long. In the intro, we talk about current events, fitness and health statistics and science, family life. It's a great time. By the way if you want to be one of the callers to call in where we can help you, email us your question at live at mindpumpmedia.com. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Rock Recovery Center. Look if you or a loved one or friend is in need of rehab, if you're addicted to a substance and you need help, go to rockrecoverycenter.com forward slash

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T-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time! Ah shit Doug, you know it's my favorite time of the week. Two winners this week for Apple Podcasts, none for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winners are I had to make this to continue and Provangelist. Both of you are winners. Send the name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com. Include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to ya. Flat bench press versus inclined bench press, which one is superior for chest development?

We're gonna break it down and we're gonna declare a winner right now. Yeah, nice debate. Yeah. Right, nice debate. We all have our preferences. We do, we do and I think for a long time it was bench press.

That was like the number one. The gold standard gold standard Especially we grew up. It was actually the exercise that determined how strong you were Nobody asked me anything else was how much could you bench? But when you really break them down, I think there's pluses and minuses But I do think you come out with kind of a clear winner. I actually don't even think it's close I think the only reason why flat bench winner. I actually don't even think it's close. I think the only reason why flat bench was superior just because I think it was a staple for so long and that you can do more because most people can

lift more weight on the bench press and so that's the argument is like oh okay well if you can lift more weight on there then that's the one that's going to grow and develop the chest. I think it's also it's also a competitive lift right? Right it's part of the- Bench press is a power lift. It's a staple lift. Yeah, there is no competition where you're competing with an incline press, but bench press, that's the one that will count in a power lifting competition. It's one of the big three in power lifting competitions.

Now, that's a pro, I would say, for bench, is that you can use more weight. And that's not something you want to disregard. Being able to handle more weight does something to the body. It does something to the central nervous system. And exercises that allow you to use a lot of load, the fact that you can handle a lot of load while doing that exercise has its own value.

And there's few pure upper body exercises. In fact, I can't think of an upper body exercise just a pure upper body one that doesn't involve lots of engagement from the lower body or the hips or whatever, where you could lift more weight. It's gotta be the heaviest pure upper body exercise. Am I right there? I would say.

Yeah, because it's a horizontal press. Because vertical press, you're only gonna be lifting so much. I mean, I'm sure people you're gonna include like a row though you're gonna include the other way you're talking about pressing oh yeah no I think I think the highest bench for I mean people could bench more they can they can do a barbell row typically right because you have to support with your low back it's pretty close yeah I'm actually trying to think of my numbers right now if I could row rows

I could I could barbell row more than I could bench, but I'm not I'm got that strange You know, I'm much stronger than I can pull in it I mean, that's what they reduce it down to power lifts. Yeah, you just squat dead and bench Yeah, it really is like the most you can maximize in terms of exercises I you know, I think I've spoke out a lot on the incline bench and how much more I'm a fan of that and a lot of that for me came from training clients. So it wasn't even like a performance or building the chest, it was a mechanical thing. I found the bench press, the flat bench press, believe it or not, was one of the most difficult exercises to get someone to perform correctly.

And I think it's, I think people overlook it because you can look at somebody doing a flat bench press and they not have good form at all, but it looks all right. Like as long as their bar path is relatively even, they could be pressing in a way that is all delts and arms and very little chest involvement and not good technique. But it looked for the average eye go like, oh, yeah, they don't know the difference. Once you lay in a laying down position, I think people a lot of times they have a hard time connecting and staying tense in a lane

that because your natural tendency is to sort of relax the rest of your body kind of focus on just where you're pressing, when in fact you really have to anchor your body to the ground and really be able to drive and get those ground forces. It's a remarkably technical exercise, the bench press. It requires more mobility, more shoulder injuries happen from a bench press than an incline press

because of that fact. I consider that a pro and a con. I think learning the skill and the technique of a bench press allows you to engage your mid-back, allows you to learn how to drive with your legs in an exercise that doesn't utilize your legs. It teaches you how to activate your central nervous system, put your shoulders in an advantageous position.

But also, the downside of that is, it takes a long time to get really good at it in comparison to an incline. I could have a client with no experience and within a couple weeks, so long as there's no injuries, within a couple weeks we could do a good incline press. Bench press, there were many clients I couldn't even get them to bench

until I trained them for three or four months on shoulder mobility, scapular retraction, and strength before I even had them lay flat on their back. In fact, neck mobility issues were sometime an issue with some clients where their head couldn't even touch the bench properly because they had neck mobility issues. So the fact that an incline is easier to do properly gives it an advantage, but then also learning how to do a flat bench properly, there's advantages to that as well. Although I think a lot of people neglected. I think that it's not, I think the incline should be a prerequisite to the flat bench. Right. But it's normally taught the other way around. I know, 100% right. As far as aesthetics are concerned, I think bodybuilders have established this now

for a while. The incline. Yeah, you'll never see a chest that is over developed in the upper part. It just doesn't exist. It gives you a nice square looking chest. Can you develop a chest where the lower part is overdeveloped in comparison to the upper part? Yeah, it happens all the time. It tends to lead to a, you know, not as aesthetic look. I think that's why bodybuilders prefer the incline over the flat. In fact, if you look at bodybuilders through the decades, the bench press got really popular early on in the 60s and 70s, and then towards the late 70s and 80s, people started doing more incline, and you can see the difference in their pec development. I'm trying to picture that in my head, like somebody that has an overdeveloped lower part

of their chest, because I don't know. I've seen that very often. Yeah, I mean, you can look up top bodybuilders the 60s and you'll see how their chest look Versus the more square look of the upper back and doesn't look into the bodybuilder So they're all well developed right, but it does give you a different look It's more of a kind of lower, you know peck look or whatever versus the the upper, you know chest square What it was? I mean you you were a big reader like when it came to this stuff like with Arnold and what he, like what was he, what was he

advocating for back then? He did both but he started with flat. Now remember he came from learning from the bodybuilders of the 60s and 50s and all of them flat benched first. I mean the flat bench, the bench press revolutionized strength training for bodybuilders because up until the 40s and 50s, there were no flat benches. So there you go. You can see kind of that like Larry Scott there on the left with the way his chest was, or even with the picture next to him, I for a minute, I think his last name, you kind of see a little bit of a shallow upper chest. Then you go to like the 80s and you'll see more of a square look to the chest So I mean remember they're all well developed not bad. It's just not as good as some of those didn't study dudes chests enough

We're getting into it incline will develop your shoulders more than flat but flat will develop your triceps More than the incline and I think it's just from the load right the heavy load on the flat Places more of a stress. Do you think what we're saying though is even common knowledge right now? I don't. No. If I walk in a gym,

most times all the flat benches are taking and almost always there's an incline bench or two open. So I still think that the predominant, like General Pop still gravitates towards a flat bench first over an incline bench, which again, speaking to the general pop, I think forget the chest development side because there's probably people listening that like really don't give a shit, like that part that's not the main motivation. They're just trying to be fit, be strong. A lot of female clients that were asking questions like that. Technique-wise, I just,

when you sit in an incline bench, it puts you in this advantageous position with the shoulder girdle. Your angle's so much better. Yeah, it sits it back and down. Which is what you're trying to do with a flat. And why that's so important is because almost everybody has some bit of forward shoulder, you know, rounded shoulders and forward head just because we do everything in front of us, right? It's just how bad do you have it. And so when you do a movement where you're pressing forward like that, it causes you to want to do that even more exacerbated where if you're in the incline and you're looking up like this, it at least helps that gravity

pulls down a little bit and back. Brings your shoulder blades down. Yeah. And then I think too, I would also make the argument that when someone does an incline, they, whether they are intentionally doing it or not, tend to do a deeper,

fuller range of motion too. Like you'll see more of a shallow bench press on a flat bench press. A lot of guys are catch stopping at 90 degrees or whatever, where when they're in that incline, they'll let it sink all the way down and back. And probably because they're in the better position, right? Their shoulder girdle is in that down and retracted position, and so they're going deeper. So I think you're getting a couple things there. Not only are you a better form of technique, you're also probably getting a greater range of motion for some people. I think you could also make the argument that incline is more functional. Because when you're pressing...

Closer to a vertical press. Yes, where the vertical press is one of is more functional. Because when you're pressing. Closer to a vertical press. Yes, where the vertical press is one of the most functional. Which is the most functional. Yeah, I mean if you're pressing something in a sport away from you, you're almost always leaning forward into the press.

Otherwise you're gonna push yourself back rather than whatever you're trying to push away. Yeah, and so the incline is gonna be a bit more functional from that standpoint. So I think we could say an equivocally winner would the incline is gonna be a bit more functional from that standpoint. So I think we could say unequivocally winner would be inclined. Now that's by the way, I love doing these because you don't have to just pick one.

Do them both. Yeah, you're gonna wanna do both for sure. Do them both, that's the best way. I think that's, do them both and I would add whatever you do less of, do more of. Because I think that, why ever neglect one of them, because they're both such great movements and they should be a part of your routine.

But I think probably what's most common is that, and at least in my experience, most people will gravitate towards one more than the other, and so therefore, whatever that one is, it would behoove you to move more towards the other one and you'll get more you'll reap more benefits Yeah, so I just looked up yet not looked up actually came across some great statistics on all cars mortality this is decent data and

How sauna use affects all cause more so funny you're bringing this up right now Why though all this was on my notes to talk about this because I had just seen, we haven't had him on the show. We, I think we were booked with him in Texas at one point and then rescheduled. Peter Tia? Yes. I saw him do an interview

and I forget who he was talking to. And he was saying, I think the interviewer asked, like, what are the things that you've changed your mind on the most? And he that was his argument was that he has really changed his position on how valuable, you know, hot hot is doing the sauna for all cause mortality for that for that reason, because it's not like because he makes the point of how a lot of these things that all of us argue and debate over Especially yeah, especially in the science community, right? We're we're splitting hairs of like

Which is you know, five percent better this night he goes but From what the research says like it's a it's a huge difference. It's like an exercise Mimic or you've heard like I mean for lymphatic system Yeah Everything else like you know in terms of like sweating it out and getting these toxins out and what's the biggest benefit? And I know heat shock proteins and other factors. I mean, you could break it all down. I mean, you know, vaso, it dilates the blood vessels, increases blood flow, raises your

heart rate. So there's that exercise simulation aspect of it. You could talk about heat shock proteins and get real granular and get into the weeds, but the data on it is crazy. It's one of those things, because you have exercise, diet, sleep at the top. Very few things even come close or would even be in the same universe as exercise, diet and sleep in terms of affecting all cause mortality. There's a lot of things you can do that the data will show will improve your health. And remember, for people who aren't familiar, all cause mortality means dying from any cause, okay?

There's nothing will compare to diet, exercise, getting good sleep, or just general lifestyle or stress, right? Nothing comes close. And everything else is just like you're moving a few percentages here and there. And if you haven't, if your diet could get better, or your exercise routine could get better

or more consistent, you're better off focusing your energy there. And that's always the argument. It's like, okay, cool, I'm glad you have this new exotic berry or whatever that you can eat or this new thing that you're doing, but why don't you just eat a little bit healthier? Like that'll have way more of a return.

Well, sauna use, I'm gonna read you guys some of the stats on this. It's massive. The effects of, of sauna use are quite, um, incredible. So Dr. Rhonda Patrick, uh, she's one of my favorite experts to talk about this, but check this out, all cause, this is for people who use a sauna quite regularly, four to seven times a week.

So we're not talking about a, by the way, 15% decrease in all cause mortality would be huge. That would be you, 20%. Massive. There's very few things you could do besides exercise, diet, and you know, lifestyle. You know, we'll put stress in that category. That would have an effect of like 20% or you know, 15%. 40% lower in people who use a sauna four to seven days a week. Yeah, that's crazy. 40%! There's nothing comes close to that. people who use Asana four to seven days a week. 40%, nothing comes close to that. People who use Asana two to three days a week, 20% lower. So even just two days a week, you'll dramatically,

so that's how effective it is, is that you use it two days a week, 20%. Four days a week, five days a week, 40% lower. It's like one thing you can do that has a so on all cause so do you think if you were if you were building the ultimate minimalist longevity type of program that this is yep fauna's in there right so it's like a two day a week protein I would imagine right because you're minimalist or again right not what the max benefits like

what is the least I can do to like really reap the most benefits? Probably a two day full body routine with what? Two to three days of the sauna use? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, walking every day. Yeah. Two days a week of strength training.

A couple days a week or a few days a week of sauna use. Eating a whole food diet and you know getting you know regular good consistent sleep like you've covered 90 plus percent of the basis which is those right there. I was reminded remember when we went to Paleo effects they had like a cheap version that you could get for your house but it was like I remember Doug and then you fitting in one it was like a pod. Oh yeah. And your head sticks out. Yeah. Velcro. I think Doug owns one of those. I do own one. Yeah. You own one of those. I mean, it works great. 30 minutes in it and I'm sweating. We have one too. It's not our house

anymore. It's I think there's someone's storage in the family. Katrina's family has one that, I mean, it's, it's like the, that was like the pop-up, like cheaper version. They used to make a, like a hard plastic egg shell one like that where your head stuck out. Yeah. So we used to use that all the time. I mean, it works great for, you know, if that's there are cheap options was the point of that. Yeah, exactly. It is an expensive thing. Oh yeah, just do sauna. Right. That's because I know that's the pushback, right? People. Oh yeah, sure. Anybody can just afford a $7,000 sauna deal. There's ways around to get the benefits to your, what you're talking about. They're quite inexpensive. Yeah, and I just, you know, the reason it was so funny you brought it up

because it was in my notes, I had seen that, it was a, and I had known that already, it was just a great reminder. And I had messaged Katrina, because we're obviously, we're doing a bunch of stuff, construction with the house, and I was just like, oh, I need a 220 outlet so I could run it. A sauna? Yeah,

because I want to put a sauna outside so I could do that. Because when we had it here, I was on a kick for a while doing it. And that with, and I don't know what the, what is the combining it with cold contrast? How do you know how much better it gets or is it incremental with the cold contrast? I think you get the benefits of both. The reason why I like to combine them personally is if I go from sauna to cold, it's more tolerable. You get the same effects, but jumping into a cold dip, like

without being hot first, you know, like you wake up in the morning, jump in, it is hard, man. It's culture. Back to our old theory of like when you're in a constantly controlled environment, temperature wise, and then, you know, to stress the body in terms of going from this end of the spectrum to the other and being able to acclimate you know to either pretty effectively I feel like that's got to be good for resilience. To me nothing has ever made a bigger difference when when

when I'm cold-punching consistently which I am NOT right now but when I am I can I can stretch a long period of time of not getting sick. Otherwise, the inevitable happens. I'll get sick once every few months or if I'm in a room with you guys. But when I'm cold plunging like that, it's a drastic difference. I can check.

But you know what you're saying, Justin, your ability to acclimate to temperature, that's a real thing. I remember when I lived in Palm Desert, so it was like the suburb of Palm Springs. It gets so hot. It gets so hot, right? Like 120 degrees in the summer.

My shoes melted there when I went down there, yeah. And I lived there for a little while. I had a gym down there and it was so hot I'd never experienced anything like that. It was like you'd go outside, it would be 90 degrees at 6 a.m. Or you'd go outside and it felt like someone had a blow dryer or blow you in the face.

So that's what the wind felt like. Your pool was basically like a hot tub. And so after a while of living there I came up here to visit my family in San Jose and I remember it was like a heat wave here so it was like 89, 92 and I was fine I went outside and I was like and everybody's dying. Am I used to that? That was like when I came back to Chicago and I. And I remember sitting and watching one of our old high school football games and everybody's got Parkas on. They're like this. And I'm like, t-shirt.

I'm like, this is temperate. Yeah. This is fine. I had a client who used to live in Minnesota. And whenever it was like 50 degrees, she'd show up in shorts and a t-shirt. I'm like, aren't you cold? I grew up on a farm in Minnesota.

Didn't we just have a guest that came in and visited the other day that was from somewhere? Where were they from? Was it Alaska or they were from somewhere? Where it was cold. Yeah, I can't remember what it was from. They were like, we were all freezing there in like a t-shirt and shorts.

I remember in my dad, he worked a blue collar, but when he first came to this country and the first jobs he had was as a plaster, did plaster. He'd be out in the hot sun doing plaster. And he told me like, once he got used to it, it wasn't a big deal. But when he first started doing it, he's like, man, he goes, he would get dizzy. He'd have to like drink water. My mom would throw salt in the water because after a while he got used to it

and then he would never feel hot again. Well, Sal, isn't that the theory behind why like the, because what I'm talking about is like, I feel like it's immune boosting, right? But it also has a lot to do with like why we get catch cold, colds a lot of times in the winter time is because we're, our bodies are already trying to acclimate to temperatures. And so it's in a weaker state and then it's more likely to get attacked. Yeah, you're just, you're just weaker, right? Your, your body's allocating resources to a system that is underdeveloped and weak. And then therefore all it takes is a little bit

of a virus in the air, and you get attacked, versus that system is so strong, because you change it, it doesn't even get stressed at all, so then it can allocate those resources. That's a vibe, that's a very, very good hypothesis. What I always thought was happening is that that's what makes the most sense to me, is that I've trained that system to be so resilient

that when we hit winter time, and everybody else is feeling it so much, I'm resilient so that when I am in an environment when you guys are like, all my resources go to defense versus having to also work that system. That's a really good theory because when you look up why do illnesses peak in the winter, what they'll say is we're closer to each other indoors,

less vitamin D from sun exposure. I don't think that answers it completely. I think you might be right, Adam. I think it might be what I just said, plus there's that period of acclimation where your body's a little bit more stressed from the cold. So I would agree with you. I mean, at least it makes sense to me when you think about how our body utilizes all the other systems. And if you have a... I mean, they all work synergistically, right? And so if you have a really weak system, you know, whichever, whatever system it is of your body, right? There's a chance that your body then has to provide more resources to overcompensate.

It is a fact that if your stress levels high, you are going to, you are more susceptible to illness, right? end of story. Right, and what that is is the resources going over there, right, so it's, I don't know, that's what always made sense to me on what was going on. It's no doubt, I've done it enough times where I've been consistent, inconsistent, consistent, to be able to see that it's a huge difference.

You know, speaking of stats, I found some very interesting stats on, so we work with Rock Recovery Center. They provide rehab services for people who are struggling with addiction, and I wanted to look up statistics on rehab, because they exist. How effective is rehab for helping people with addiction? And I have real statistics.

Isn't it very extreme? You know, it's better than I thought, because I thought, I don't know why I thought this for some reason, that's like, the chance is so small, no matter what you do, that you'll get out of whatever you're doing. It's actually not bad at all. So 89, I have a bunch of stats here,

89% of individuals who complete alcohol rehab are still sober one month after. 76% who successfully complete rehab remain sober three months. 69% are still sober six months. A little more than 70%, so right around the same, nine months. Approximately 85 to 95% of people

who successfully complete drug rehab report that they're still abstinent from drugs nine months later 80% of people report having improved quality of life. I mean the stats are pretty damn good, especially when you consider The stats of people that don't go to rehab. I actually thought that it was a lot worse than that also So did I I thought it was like a 10% no I thought it was very they have like the have the different treatments in terms of their weight of which one was more successful versus the other? No, that's a good question.

I know Rock Recovery. Oh, this is why we're working with them and they become friends is because obviously they were big mind pump listeners for a long time. I think the way they do it is phenomenal. Well, they've really taken a similar approach the way we do with fitness, right? Not only including fitness, because I know there's a lot of places that might include fitness, but they've also taken our approach of the least amount possible, the list of the most change, and know how important that is.

Because when you have addicts, one of the most common things that you see with an addict is they cut one addiction down and then they just transfer it somewhere else. Pick it up somewhere else. Pick it up somewhere else. And so many times the exercise works as like a bridge to get them off the drug or alcohol. They incorporate exercise. But then they just move to being obsessed and addicted with that.

And so, and even though yes, you can make the argument that that's probably a better addiction than cocaine, nonetheless, it's still an addiction where they'd be far better off if they applied it appropriately so they get all the benefits of exercise but then they also don't just transfer those same behaviors over there. And they're just good people over there. They're just really really good people who successfully came out of the run or are now sober themselves, successfully working with people and they're really good. So I mean if you're listening to this or you have a family member or friend

that's struggling, the odds that they're going to be able to do this on their own are almost zero when you look at the data. Working with a really good rehab center, pretty good statistics, not bad at all. I thought they were going to be a lot worse when I looked them up just from what I thought. Way better and they're doing a scholarship Right. It's like every other month they give one. Yeah. Yeah So anytime you guys hear us bring them up on the show if you have a family friend definitely sign and no matter what so even If your family friend or yourself does not win the actual scholarship They're reaching and they're doing like a consult with everybody. So people that are

Yes, exactly and there and that's their goal is to help everybody they've got they've even like a consult with everybody. So people that are... They'll at least be able to point you in a direction. Yes, exactly. And that's their goal is to help everybody. They've got, they've even got a free community. So they have a Facebook group too. So like those, they're inviting those people into there so they can at least start building a support group, regardless if they can get, if they win the scholarship or not, they're building a really strong community of people that are all helping and support each other. So definitely, you know, register to try and win because the bare minimum they at least will reach out and do that.

You're just reminding me of something. So you know how Facebook does, you know, memories, it'll pull up on your own picture. Doug, I sent you, I texted you a picture, if you could pull it up. This is, so you guys know how every year after Thanksgiving I work out with my cousins and my brother.

And I was trying to figure out how long this tradition has been going on. It's actually been going on a lot longer than I thought. So this picture right here, check this out. This is 2015. Look at the shirt I'm wearing. Scorl up a little bit, Duxie. Look at the shirt.

It's one of the first T-shirts, if not the first T-shirt. So do you guys still have that shirt? I was trying to look for it. No. I don't think I have it anymore. So one of the first shirts that we sold. The Zero Fucks? Zero. I've kept all where they're at though I have to I know I've I've kept all them one day I want to make a big quilt out of them. I can't believe you wore those to your shirt.

Yeah yeah so I know. I wore that walking around public you know what am I doing? But anyway and so this is 2015 by the way the house supportive of my family they're all wearing mind pump shirts for that. That's 2015 too, this is like right before or right after we must've launched or whatever. We had the Italian bump. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's so cool that you had that kind of support from your family that early on

because we weren't even making waves at this point. We weren't doing none. And so. We thought we were off. I mean you've got five family members right there all wearing mind pump shirts and I don't even think I had five family members listening to the show. So maybe even now, you know, I got like four Yeah, this picture is 2015. Mm-hmm. This was the seventh year right here that we had done it So I've been doing we've been doing this this this

tradition for 17 years really 17 years every year. Have you guys done a good job in taking a picture every time? Do you know? Not all of them. Cause that would be a really cool thing.

I think this is the first picture we took. I think the rest of them were just, we did it. And then we started kind of documenting. I always hate when I go back. I know man. It's like what we talked about with the Airbnb's. I wish we would have taken photos, all of us through all those.

It's like, oh. You know what, You know that. Do you guys think, I had this thought the other day because we've moved so much into the digital era with the, and Instagram is now kind of taking over like the modern photo album. Like how often do you hear anybody even, or when was the last time you went to a house

and someone brought a photo album out? Nobody. So I think we're gonna go back to that. I believe we're gonna move back. There's something about- Jessica makes them all the time. Yeah, I did for Katrina a lot early on in the page. Because you can send them in and they'll print

and they'll make them in a book. Yeah, yeah, I use Shutterfly and they make books and so when we first started dating, I was making Katrina a book every year for the first few years. And so every once in a while, we will pull those out and it's like, and there's just something about flipping through the pages, and I know I have all those photos in my iPhone, but they're not organized

the same way. Yeah. It's just, and they're cool for coffee tables, you know, and I don't even know if that's what it is. There's something, there's a feeling I get that is different when I flip through the book versus even if it was organized, cause I can go to shutter fly online and where I built that book, I can go through it there too, but there is something different about turning the pages and holding it in your lap like that. I don't know, like it creates conversation around, oh, I remember this. I don't know, versus us on a phone or on a TV or just different. And I believe that we're going to move, I think it's to be popular again. So that's my business idea for somebody right now is that

direction. But don't they already do that? They do that direction But it's not popular it's not like something that like business idea is like so what I would so what would be smart like What sort of glamour I mean business? What would be smart is if somebody like went after people so imagine You have all these Instagram and imagine someone DMS you sound says hey I see you've been you've had Instagram going for I like too. I'd like to put together an album for you. Would you allow me to do that or something like that? Or, you know, for 50 bucks, I'll create a nice album and then do it and then.

So. Would you not buy it? Oh, I'm sure you can already use AI tools. I think you can with even like Shutterfly. I think you can already use AI. Speaking of which, who was it that sent that clip where someone said, hey, you could ask like Meta to come up with the best, most viral potential post.

Who was it? Yeah, yeah. I think the YouTube group. Was it one of our guys? Yeah, I think the YouTube group. I had shared that before. That's crazy. Somebody reshared it in our group.

You could literally ask Metta, their AI, hey, what would be the most viral content for my audience? So you know, okay, you understand why this is so good for us and why this is so important is because the platforms are already moving, which you guys have probably noticed this already with your feeds. Like, you're getting way less views. But the views you are getting are

people that really want to see exactly that type of content that you're posting at that moment. They're getting good at that. They're getting very good at that. So even though there's people that are frustrated because they think their views are way down or their listens are way down, what the algorithms are getting better and better at is feeding people content that

is exactly what they want and only what they want, which means if you're really good at providing really good value for whatever your thing is, that's gonna stick. Cause that person was already, like, you know, let's say you're like, a lot of my feed is all car stuff. I'm all into that. And I'm watching certain car things right now because I'm interested in a new exhaust or whatever.

So that's like everything I'm getting fed. And the person who did the best video, the highlighting the exhaust or thing I'm interested in is gonna get my attention. And I'm not gonna get distracted by anything else cause that's all I'm getting my feet. What they're doing is they're catering to content creators because they know that they're the ones

that make their platforms popular. The better content creators you have, the better your platforms. Isn't TikTok about to become illegal by the way? I heard one of you guys say that, is that true? Yeah. They're saying it, they're saying it's true. On the 19th, by the way,

which I think the inauguration's on the 20th. The timing? Timing's interesting the timing, timing's interesting. Yeah. We'll see what's, what does the conspiracy theorist say about that? I know. Is there a conspiracy? Probably is. I'm sure there is, but yeah.

So Trump, I don't think he was, had a problem with Tik Tok. So this was all past, you know, this is all because he did. I thought I've heard him say stuff about it. He's gone back because it helped him in the election. He was like claiming. So is it because it's like thought I've heard him say stuff about it. He's not back Chris. It helped him in the election He was like claiming so because it's like I like to know it's because it's a China owned Platform and they're capturing yes because a lot of the spyware and everything they found that they actually do have been taking her place Well, and they prove their phones They also proved to that like we're getting fed different content over in the US than what

they are in China. The kids especially. Yeah. Have you seen those videos? I think that's what really caused everybody to go like, oh, this is, okay, something's up. Some different algorithm in China than there was here. Yeah.

Maybe. You know what sucks about all this? Well, they showed that. What sucks about all this is there's people who have built businesses just on TikTok who are about to lose their entire business. I mean, again, another plus for us, even though we have a TikTok, we don't put no energy into it.

So, I mean, what that means for us is a majority of US-based people will then go over to Reels and be more on YouTube shorts and so that which is where we're at. So, the TikTok thing has never, I know there are some people that have had massive success. I think you have to have a product or thing that really appeals to that 13 to 23 are they still the youngest demographic? Yeah. Oh, I don't know maybe snapchats up there, too Hey, maybe Dylan or someone could look up what the what's the average?

What's the average age of a tick-tock? We figured out the most addictive process ever like they literally nailed it. They do Kids that's what it is like. It's you crack cocaine We figured out the most addictive process ever. Like they literally nailed it. They did. I mean it's crack for kids. That's what it is. It's just like crack cocaine. Yeah, I told you guys, my daughter has a grandchild. Around 24 years old. Is the average? What's the average for Instagram?

Let's just see what the difference is. Well, that's older for sure. What's Snapchat? Snapchat might be one that's down there with them. There's probably a platform. I think Snapchat will take over for sure here. Yeah. Why do they do this?

It's already popular with the youth. That's like every teenager, that's what they live on. You can see it track their friends. 15 to 25 year olds. Oh, so that's younger. On Snapchat. Oh, okay. So Snap will probably take over a lot of that.

Sure. Interesting. Speaking of conspiracy theories and stuff, I learned about the coolest one yesterday. Oh yeah? And I can't, so you don't know who Ron Wyatt is. We've been watching a lot of dumb ones, and I'm like, I don't know. Ron Wyatt, the comedian? Ron Wyatt. Oh yeah? And I can't, so you don't know who Ron Wyatt is. I've been watching a lot of dumb ones and I'm like, I don't know. Ron Wyatt? The comedian? Ron Wyatt. Oh, Wyatt. Ron Wyatt, I'll pull up a little info on him because I saw this clip or this like on him and I looked him up and you know there's a lot of controversy, right? Is he real? Is he not? Whatever. He was a, they called him a pseudo

archaeologist, but essentially he would go out and study biblical archaeological places, and he made a hundred biblical archaeological discoveries. His most notable claim, you ready for this? So, he said he found the Ark of the Covenant, which was underground. Underneath where Jesus died on the cross. So under where Jesus was crucified was the Ark of the Covenant. And then they had like a DNA evidence of his blood. He saw this red, dry substance on it. It was 20, what was it, 24 chromosomes? That's right. He took the blood studied in the lab. It only had 24 chromosomes. Yeah This is all we had half the same right up there with my carbon dating I thought it was so cool. Yeah, I know it's it's fantastical. Yeah, I was looking it up. It's been verified

Yeah, dude, there's some debates as to back and forth or whether or not it was Yeah, he had this it was a YouTube series and he had it out for I don't know this been out for years really Yeah, I found him like I don't know you're yeah I could have sworn I just I think Justin has brought this exact story up bro on the podcast Did you a long time ago? Yeah? during It you just missed it look at five years ago now Where the arc was you know his arc You just missed it. You just missed it fucking five years ago. Now you're on board. Now you're all about it. I think he also found where the Ark, Noah's Ark ended up landing.

Is he the same guy? Because I've seen the documentary on the guy who did that and showed all that. Is that him right there? Discovered Noah's Ark? Is that him? Yeah, that's him. That's my retirement plan. I just want to go around the world and find cool stuff.

Really? Yeah. So what are some of the crappy conspiracy? You said you've been finding some weird ones? Oh you know most of the ones that I just Immediately dismissed are the ones where it's like people that have died and then they spot them later as like an old person like Yeah, like one of us like Hitler like Hillary Clinton. I saw that one. I was like, this is so great. There's a picture of Hillary Clinton.

Okay, hold on. We have a picture of Hitler and then like, you know, you can kind of see the resemblance. Yeah. I love those ones. You guys, sometimes we have our own thread. We don't always, but sometimes we'll send each other stuff like that. Oh, I love it.

Doug and I have our own car. When I talk movie stuff that. Oh, I love it I don't I don't I have her own car when I talk movie stuff cars Yeah, I'm touching. I'm texting Doug. You guys don't even care about it Dude, so I bought my kids We're doing this sort of social experiment with them because it's been a struggle to get them to We give them a lot of time for video games And if they do all their homework and this and that the other how much time do they get by the way? So they get in it varies based on their behavior. So it's either like 20 minutes or sometimes an hour if they're really like, you know,

or getting things done. But so that time comes up and then it's like I have a timer is this huge fight and every time just rip them out. And so I'm like, okay, I give them just the 20 minutes now and then they can earn the rest. And so I do that by flipping a coin. And so I bought this coin off of this guy that makes them on Etsy. And it has the name, it engraves the name. So it's like Everett, and then you earn, it's like another game or it's like game over and like go to bed and so we flip it But I've been winning every fucking time I've been told you know obviously they haven't picked up on it yet, but I'm Dad's key the chickens both sides of the face. Yes, and they don't fight me on it cuz I'm just like it's up

You know up for chance So are you I mean obviously you have all the why we guess you have your older to the older kids, too I don't know if you if they are video gaming like Justin's are not do you does it change like weekends versus weekdays? And like and then how do they earn? We, we, I feel like 20 minutes to an hour is not a lot of video game time. Cause I played a lot more now, especially on the weekends. I mean, we would muck out for two days straight. So yeah, it's, it's, it's sparse during the week. And then yeah, uh, during the week ends, if we're not really paying attention, it can get like crazy, like three hours or so. I'm

not sure how I'm going to, I'm not sure how I'm gonna I've talked about how I'm gonna handle the phone thing. I already feel confident on the direction I'm gonna go that way. I don't know what I'll do with video games. Here's Now so so different now to man's here's what cuz you like video games exactly That's why here's why I think would be good if you're playing with him. Yeah, and you're engaging together Yeah different if he's by himself That's where I think you might need to be a little bit more. I try that but it's it's you know It we have I got shit to do right?

Work on the house. I got areas to run, you know, and so you know You have all the best intentions of I mean I started out like that and then it just my son's already like not into it You remember I told you guys I got the old Nintendo. Yeah, and so he went through young He went through a little. He went through a little. Yeah, but his best friend, who's only a year older than him, has been, I mean, addicted to the little game for. I don't know what the answer is to this, but let me ask you this.

Don't do iPad games. No. I don't agree. Is your best friend's kid generally on electronics? Oh yeah, yeah, unfettered access. So he's been trained. That's why. But I mean, that's my point, is that like it and that's why I'm

wondering how I handle it is because I believe or I want to believe that if we did such a good job of laying a foundation early that I won't have to really pull and restrict what I think happens to a lot of parents is early and maybe Justin, you could attest to this or not. You know, maybe there was a time when you guys weren't really thinking about the video games and you kind of gave them more access than maybe or have you since day one been a fight since day one? Oh, since day one you've restricted. Yeah. And it's I'd

like to say that like, you know, like, I mean, if you do your best in terms of like laying the groundwork and like, you know, having the strict guidelines and rules, but just like anything else, it's like it wants to get old enough where they want to push back on you like that's where it really starts to become a thing. Like, you know, you'll find that out a bit later where he's like, no, I'm doing it this way. No, they want to push back and find, you know, boundaries and where they can go and they want to test those boundaries. And so it just because it's a diff, it's a weaving goalpost. The hardest part for

you guys, and I know that you have you can definitely speak to this because I know your son's brilliant. My brother Larry, you guys know Larry comes in here and does does our tech stuff, right? He his son Nathaniel is getting ready to go to college and he's getting into like all the greatest I mean, he averaged like a four to2 killed it I mean he's just a brilliant kid awesome but he was like I mean he was always attached to the games and so it's like and he's a good kid didn't do drugs didn't drink you know just well behaved all the things but that

was this thing he was into and so and he played sports too so I think his dad was like I think what I'm sure Larry was okay with was like He also was playing basketball and baseball and so wasn't like he only played video games He also did this thing but he let me tell you he played a lot of video games and He'd be we've been a lot of family events and he'd be I down on his phone and so that but then the kids getting into Stanford or like You're doing the good job right now by laying the groundwork

I have to like rest in that because like they their own individual at the end of the day. Some kids are going to be way more hooked on it. I think you have to be careful because we tend to measure success on a few things. Do they get good grades? Are they making a lot of money? Then it wasn't a bad thing. But those aren't the only things that are good in the world. And if I could go back in time,

I would have been way more restrictive of the video games that my 19 year old played when he was a kid, for sure. And he got good grades, real smart kid. But I don't think it was because he played video games. Yeah, but then Sal, what do you, okay, because the reason why that's an easy thing, it's an easy thing for kids to,

they're being taught in school, get good grades. Be well behaved, right? Don't do drugs. These are like the things that we're teaching. We tend to value that. Like if I say to you, hey, is that person successful? You immediately think what? How much money they make.

But you're not thinking are they a good person? Are they happy? Are they anxious? Yes, so I guess the question I'm asking then, so you go back to your son, you redo all this. Oh yeah, way more restricted. Okay, you're way more restricted, but then how do you sell it to him?

You know, you start at the beginning. That's right. You have to start, that's what you're saying. So that's, but I mean, Justin makes me fearful of that because he's saying that he was that way all the way from the beginning. You're still gonna get pushback. I think that so far, everything's been relatively easy

for me to pull back on, and we allow this kind of push and pull with him with all types of things. Remember, I was the guy who said he'll never see TV. Obviously, that's not true. And I will allow him to be on his iPad or I'll allow him to watch a little TV. But then when I see that I'm allowing too much of it or I see any sort of change in behavior, Katrina and I pull right back and then we'll pull way back and then we'll drip it back to him and make sure that there's so and it's not been like it's not obviously he's only five. Okay. So I don't have a teenager who can articulate their argument and stuff like that. So I'm hoping that I

just I'm consistent. And so that when it gets to the high school years that he's been hearing it consistently already. So it's not a hard thing. That's your best bet. Regardless, just wait till it being existed. Cause I wonder what you would say. What would you say if you had to redo it? Like you're not measuring it by money, you're not measuring it by school grades anymore. You wanted to be a good person, that's vague as fuck. Hey son, you were a great person this week.

Well, I mean, without getting personal, there's a lot of things I would look at, but I would have definitely gone back and restrict. Look, I'll tell you what, with my daughter, I'll tell them about my 15 year old. She's very restricted on social media, and recently, recently,, I'll tell you what, with my daughter, I'll tell them about my 15 year old, she's very restricted on social media and recently, recently, and I've stuck to this, I told her, you know what, I don't want you to have your phone or your iPad in your room anymore. If you want to use it,

you have to be in a common area. And it was definitely a fight for a week. You know what's now? I'm seeing positive, positive benefits. She's more with the family more, she's happier. See, that's what I was looking for you know what's now? I'm seeing positive, positive benefits. She's more with the family more, she's happier more. See, that's what I was looking for you. That's great feedback, because there's an example that maybe I hadn't even thought of. But you get that withdrawal at first. That I know that if and when that time comes,

that'll be an easy thing to implement, right? It's like when he gets to use iPad, like you don't ever use it in your room. We don't use any of our devices in our room. It's that simple. We have a common area, we use it. It's a big hack, we've done that. Same thing a great. That's what I'm looking for from you, too when I talk to this stuff like that is that

Obviously, I'm trying to implement and I still have time but it's like what are these little things that if you could go back And do it again that you think would have made a big difference Well in you know, we're fearful of VR and all that kind of stuff. I actually prefer it because I see, oh my god, they're so active and they're engaging and they're talking and then they're done. They'll take it off and then they're done for the day. It was like, okay, that's enough. The stimulus is like overload.

So it's almost like I don't really get as much fight on that as I do the hand-hold stuff. Yeah, have you seen videos of little kids who use iPads or phones all the time and they're falling asleep, it's not even in front of them, and they're using the hand signal and they're moving their finger like they're on it? Or they'll pull it away from the one-year-old and one-year-old will throw a tantrum?

Oh man, it's crazy. Have you guys seen that video of the dad who his son was playing, I don't know what happened, but he puts his gaming console and video games out in the lawn and runs over it with a love war. Have you seen that one? All his kids losing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's too far. I love that. I thought that was funny. You know, speaking of kids, teenagers, we had these, I'm sitting on the couch last night watching the Warriors game, doorbell rings, like, you know, this is like six o'clock or seven o'clock at night, which is random time.

And Katrina pulls up the, you know, whatever the camera and it's like these two, looks like high school girls. And so her and Max go to the door and go answer the door. And these two girls are selling homemade cookies. And Katrina is like, how come you guys are doing this? And they're like, well, we just, we were at home and we wanted to be more productive with our time and thought, you know, we'd go to our neighbors and offer.

Yeah, and so of course Katrina bought and supported, you know, it was like that. She's like, I love that. I love that you girls are thinking like that at 17, that you don't want to just sit around and watch TV or stick to your iPad or what that, and yes, I'll definitely buy for you. That's great.

Yeah, so I thought that was pretty cool to see that. It does seem sometimes, you know, like even the generation coming up are becoming more and more aware of this. Like you gotta understand, like you guys as kids probably had it the hardest, I really believe. When it comes to understanding the relationship with tech, because we were, it was so new to us. And you know-

Is there a lifeline too for a while, is there like stuck on? That also. So that- COVID really messed that up, man. Like we have a really good handle on it because we were before and we were like kind of so we have to see the whole the whole thing But man if you were born into the iPhone Yeah as being normal right away as a kid and seeing both your parents on it like crazy and then you get it right away at

Two and it's like and then now you're a parent You know with a 12 year old trying to figure out how you're gonna rain it back in it Gee that that to me seems way harder than what I'm doing. What I'm doing is I'm building these... It's interesting because I have the hardest time right now with my youngest, but like Ethan's actually moved over to more social stuff. And so he's actually going out, hanging out with people. But then now I'm having to regulate like at the middle of the night, he's like on these

group chats and they're all just like, blah, blah, blah. Like, and I can hear them in the house And I'm like, dude, cut it out. You know, go to bed. And it's like, every night though, I take his phone. He doesn't have his phone in his room. I saw you said that too. I thought that's a great- I started doing that too.

That's a great idea too. Like having like a little basket where all of our tech goes. Which by the way, I think would be just great discipline for myself. I would have loved, I know exactly. Like I, well, some of, I mean- He's actually appreciating it now. He fought me hard on that in the beginning. Oh, I bet. I bet. Again, trying to pull it back, right?

Versus if I have the opportunity, it's like, hey, as soon as you get it, here's the things. You know what? If there's one thing I could tell a parent of a teenager is when you do something and you make a change, anticipate that there's going to be a long period where they're going to act like they don't like you, and you gotta deal with it. Like my daughter, there was one thing that we did where we kinda fought over, and she was mad at me for a month.

You know it's like to have your kid act like they're pissed off at you for a month. You know what I mean? And I mean as a dad, you know, remember I have dual custody, so it's not like I have her every other, I only get it every other week. So it's also, it's rough.

Bro, it's so funny about that. I, I, I gripped my teeth. I told you guys this, Jessica helped me a lot. She was like, you know, that's normal, right? You know, she probably would be mad at you anyway. She's gonna come around and she did. She came around, but it was a month. I tell you guys the, uh, the story of when I was, uh, I was 16 and my parents took the car

and I did speak to them for like a for like a year, I've told you. Well, that's all that's great. Bro, it was like, I mean, what makes me laugh about that is just thinking of her doing that, it takes real effort to be upset for that long. You're like intentional. Yeah, yeah, you have to be very intentional. You gotta drum it up for some more.

Yes, I remember, seriously, I can recall being like, they need to know I'm still mad, you know what I'm saying? So being in my room before I come out to dinner just like I need to get in that mindset Because I had a great day at school Wait a minute I see you. Yes. It's like that's a lot of effort man goes into that to be like upset consistently for a month That's I mean, that's always with my personality like I'll get pissed off and then I'm done. Yeah The new rules get lights. Yeah, you're over it. Yeah, life moves on worth that and so mad to like keep that rage for

weeks and months. It's a lot of work. It finally ended because we were driving and she was just giving me, and again it's a month of attitude and I'm like alright you're gonna be mad, you can be mad and I just, which I don't do, I don't lose my temper. You guys know me, I'm not one to lose my temper but she got it from me

and she, I lost it and I dropped her off at school and she her mom later on Text me she's like Your daughter just texted me. She said you lost your your mind. What's going on? Like oh she she deserved that one Are there okay between all your guys's? kids parents You know spouses Who has the ability to get your most extreme level out of you?

Like, of all of them, you get one. What family member, what spouse, what friend, who can get- Yeah, what are you trying to do here? I don't know, I don't know. What's happening? Only you think that way, where you're worried about what you're gonna say right now.

Everybody else just be honest about what you're saying. Like, who is it? I know for me, it's my mom. Yeah. Nobody can give me the two. It's either gonna be a parent or a spouse or a sibling in my opinion. What, yeah, the only other one would be kid there.

Yeah, but your kid isn't gonna, I mean, maybe I guess. Oh yeah, if you ever think about it. I'm sure there's someone listening right now who's got a kid who is a- Push your button. Yeah, who's a little shithead right now and they're probably going like no one gets me wearing your that.

I think the closer you are to someone too, the more they're probably gonna. So who is it for everybody? I told you mine is my mom. Yeah, mine's my mom. Yeah, so your mom's been the case. I mean we've worked on it It's got better, but still there. Yeah for me. It's one of my siblings or my wife We could really get it really get at each other and really annoy each other, but my siblings can do that, too They'll trigger me with like one or two things and then just set me off really. Yeah, Doug my ex. Yeah

There's the no comparison Yeah. There's no comparison. Oh, no comparison. Oh my god. That's for me. So you're naming it could be, could be that. It's for you, it's clear. Yeah, I've never raised my voice or swore that my mom is the only person that could ever get that out

of me. It's unfortunate, just my mother, right? Because I'm not proud. I'm not proud to say that, but, and of course I'm aware of that has a lot of resentment and other stuff that's layered under there. She can't do that anymore. And that, but Katrina watched me work through that.

So when we first got together, I remember that we were dating and she was just like, when she saw that side of me, she'd never seen that side. It was just with my mom. Also the only person who could bring me to tears, like she can make me she saw that side of me, she'd never seen that side and it was just with my mom. Also the only person who could bring me to tears, like she can make a bring. That's how much emotion she can evoke from me and nobody else has that, has that control. Not, and not even close. It's like second probably right.

Oh God. You guys should know better by now. That's not even our, our fired up is like a passion for what we do. Yeah, definitely. We're supposed to mention Luminose by Intera, their skincare products. I looked up their skin, I think it's firming serum. It's 3% GHKCU peptide.

So that's the peptide. Which is the best, the healing peptide. You're not gonna find that. Like you're not gonna find something with that much GHKCU. This is the peptide. Which is the best. The healing peptide. You're not going to find that. You're not going to find something with that much GHKCU. This is a peptide. If you put on your skin, the data on this is crazy. What it does to your skin is remarkable in terms of healing, regeneration, working with UV damage, all stuff, but 3%.

If you have psoriasis, it is know, you think, and I don't know, because I haven't been a dermatologist in a really long time, but their move is to go right to the steroids. And the steroid cream and all that stuff like that. Basically immune modulating. But now where we're at with stuff like peptides like this, I wonder if they're starting to include that.

I don't think a medical dermatologist, but if you're gonna go to a functional dermatologist. Oh, you don't even think that a medical place would be. I don't know, to be honest with you. I think you probably have to go to someone that's more cutting edge. I love somebody who's a listener that has psoriasis also, that actually still sees their dermatologist,

could give me insight, cause I'm curious. That has been one of the most amazing products for the psoriasis, for sure. So I'm curious if they would, and so much healthier. And it's not suppressing the immune system. Yeah, so much products for the psoriasis. Yeah. So I'm curious if they would, it's so much healthier. And it's not suppressing your immune system. Yeah. So much better for you than taking some sort of a...

Yeah. Cause the steroids, they start losing their effect after a while and then you get rebound effects. Have you seen videos of people who will use these? I, to this day, I'm so mad that I didn't understand that when I first started using it because I started using steroid creams and injections well before it got to where it is worse today than it ever was before.

It works for a bit. Oh, yeah, no, it would actually almost eliminate it, which is what makes you go, oh my god. Yeah, keep using it. Yeah, keep using it. But then every time it comes back, it rears its head twice as bad. And then you're having to hop around from different ones,

and then it's a never-ending cycle and only getting worse versus at least when I started going the all-natural way, sure I've never eliminated it completely but I've kept it at bay and it hasn't gotten worse. So that's to me the for anybody who has psoriasis and has gone that route. I want to shout out our free forum for our coaches. What's the name of that? It's, uh, it's, uh, Growth Secrets. Growth Secrets, right? Is that it right there, Doug? Yeah, Personal Trainer Growth Secrets,

powered by Mind Puff. Yeah, so it's a free forum for coaches and trainers. The reason why I wanna mention it is, you guys go on there, you see what the coaches talk about and help each other through. Yeah. It's, I wish I had something like that when I was a trainer.

And Ann has done an incredible job, having somebody, It's a great network. So the audience understands like Ann who has an educational background, meaning she's a teacher right, that's her background. Paired with us is like the most amazing combo. She's more structured that way. Yeah she's taken a lot of the things that we talk about and is put it in. And given free resources. Yes, there's a ton of free resources on that Facebook page.

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how to become more effective and more successful. Our first caller is Taylor from California. What's up Taylor? How's it going? Good. Good good. Just pulling up my question here. So it's gonna be about Kritaa Musage. The past three to five years I guess I've been using it kind of periodically, mostly in the evening time kind of as a replacement for alcohol or any other like relaxing thing. Mostly I use it for muscle relaxation, it's kind of chilling out and sometimes I'll use it as a pre-regout for cardio. And lately I've been really trying to dial in my training, nutrition and everything and I've been wondering if you guys think that this may be holding me back a little bit. I know in the past it was either just Adam mentioned that they used to use it but then

stopped. I was wondering if they noticed any strengths or lifting improvements from coming off of it. I have a lot of thoughts and opinions around Kratom. There was a reason, just so you know, there's a reason why we have chose not to advertise or sponsor that even though I admittedly have used Kratom. So it has incredibly addictive properties to it. I know that and it's a

supplement that is kind of in the gray market right now, so you can easily get it at your local smoke shop. I know that we have some fitness people that are connected to us that market it and sell it. Those are some of the people that have came to us and wanted us to push it. And even though it's something that I've utilized, I've used it many times, I'm also very aware of how addictive it can be. And I don't think that it's hurting your gains, although I don't think it's a great thing to get addicted to. So just because there isn't a lot of research around it,

anything that falls in that kind of gray area just because it's not illegal yet, doesn't mean it's necessarily good for us. But I don't think it's hindered my gains, unless I guess it starts to grab ahold of you so much that you're not doing productive things, or you're not able to hit your protein intake and stuff like that.

But from a chemical standpoint, what's going on inside your body, it's very similar to, it pairs with the opiate receptors. That's why you get that relaxed feeling, much like a, like a Vicodin or a Percocet or something like that. Now those are pharmaceutical drugs, and this is derived from a tree and a plant. And so that's why it kind of flies under the radar and it's considered, it's, and it's considered a supplement and okay, but it's definitely very addictive. Yeah, I tell anybody who asks me to stay away from it,

I started using it and the opiate receptors down regulate fast. Pretty quickly on kratom, like they would on any opiate. You gotta rank it up. And then when you go off, you'll have withdrawal. And does a down regulation of opiate receptors cause any challenges for gains in the gym? I mean, maybe indirectly, irritability, more pain,

anxiety, sleep issues. So, now I know there's reports of some people getting liver damage and other things that's not due to the kratom, sleep issues. So now I know there's reports of some people getting liver damage and other things that's not due to the kratom, that's due to the unregulated nature of it, right? They're getting it from God knows where and who knows what's in there. Can you overdose on it? Yeah, you could definitely overdose on it like you can on any opiate. So anybody who asked me, like don't touch it. It was the most difficult thing I'd ever had to stop.

So, and I try to stay away from it because I, and I'm not, you know, I don't get addicted to things in that way, I tend to stop or whatever, I'll use things on a big deal. That one's a bad one, that was a hard one. So if you're trying to be healthier, a better person type of deal, I would stay away from it. Just like if somebody asked me about nicotine

or anything else, although I think kratom probably has worse potential. At the least, minimize it and cycle off of it, right? Because I know how strong it can grab ahold of you and you can end up doing it every single day and then ramping up the amount you're doing. Yeah, if it disappeared right now, never existed again, and it makes you feel like, oh, what would I do?

You'd probably have a problem. Now what's probably affecting your gains is probably not the cradum unless it's affecting your behaviors, which is possible because of the nature of the substance. But what's probably affecting your gains is diet, sleep, and exercise. That's probably what is the issue. So we could get into that a little bit and see what does your workout look like, what does your diet look like, and then maybe break that down. Yeah that'd be great. The past eight months or so I've been running a few different variants of 5-3-1. So it's a four-day program with a couple days of

conditioning throughout the week. Every day focuses on a main compound movement and some accessories to help with those. I typically run about six to eight miles a week. I've been trying to gain more strength and mass and everything, and my weight's been pretty stable even through the holiday season, everything just a couple of spikes from the usual holiday eating and stuff. But now it's leveled out again. That's what prompted my question earlier is I feel like I should be seeing more improvements from this program. Well, my diet's definitely in check easily. 160 grams of protein a day, probably averaging

26 to 2800 calories a day. And soup could always be better, but, um, it seems like everything is pretty dialed in. So I was wondering if it potentially the, Chris Palm used to, it might be hampering that. Um, not likely. When was the last time, like how long have you plateaued for? I don't know. That's six months or so.

Like my bench is saved right around two or five dead lifts, uh, three 40 squat, especially plateaued like right at two 50. So I think it might be babe programming or a technique thing. Yeah. That's programming. Programming. Yeah. That's a programming thing.

It's I go switch it up. Yeah. I'd bump your calories, switch you to a different program. I like Maps Anabolic or Maps Power Lift. I think Anabolic, you would probably see some stringgings right out the gates. Before starting it, take a week off,

and then jump into it. But it's probably most likely a programming thing. Taylor, do you mind if I ask you a question that might be a little personal? Yeah, absolutely. Or do you notice any worsening in the ticks when you come off of the cratum? Uh, no, I noticed my stuttering actually, uh, kind of improve with, uh, crotom usage, um, as I'm using it at night, I'm a little bit more relaxed and everything.

Um, so it's easier to talk more salutely. Not with, not while you're on it, but withdrawal when you stop it. I'm sure though, of course when it's off. Um, when I stop, yes, it does get a little bit worse, but it's kind of hard to tell because I only use it at night. Okay. Pay attention to that because the withdrawal will get worse over time. And the more you keep the receptors down-regulated, the longer they tend to stay that way. And what you don't want to do is cause modeling, brain modeling and adaptations in the body that are long-term.

So you see this with any substance that causes an adaptation of down regulation receptors. The longer you use that substance, the more you get kind of these long-term type of effects. For example, somebody who uses nicotine for two months will have a certain type of withdrawal versus someone who uses it for 10 years. I'm using two examples that are extreme. So if you notice a worsening withdrawal, then it's not better. And then what will happen is you may find yourself trapped in a cycle of, I need this. So keep that in mind.

As far as programming is concerned, Taylor, let me send you maps and ebolic, and I want you to follow the three day a week version of that. And I also want you to bump your calories by about 200 calories. Um, and then let's start there. Take a week off, get on it, and you should see some strength strength gains by the second or third week. Key, key to this one will be, uh, Taylor is not, uh, adding to the program because you have more days or more time or what like follow it as it's laid out give us that for the next at least 30 to

60 days and I think you'll see the difference but you know because it's so different from what you're kind of doing right now you'll find yourself feeling like you're working out or doing less and so you'll be like I'll just add this or I'll just do that. Don't do that. Especially cardio. Follow it the way it's laid out. And like Sal said, bump your calories a bit. And I think that'll, I think you'll see,

I think you'll see a nice gains over the next month or two. Yeah, within the second or third week, you should see some weight out of the bar, five to 10 pounds. Okay. With the combination of working out less per week and also bumping the calories should I be concerned about any like fat gain? No. In fact if you really want to speed up your strength gains I would cut

your running in half. I would go from six to eight miles to two and that for sure would see... I would bet. I would bet money that you'd see strength gains just from that combination right there. Remember too, we're only bumping the calories a couple hundred calories. It'll go to muscle. Yeah, you're not gonna jump a thousand calories

with that and a couple hundred extra calories every day while sending a unique new signal, right, of what you're programming, so that will, it'll get partitioned over to building muscle. It'll go where it's supposed to. Yeah, do it and give us a follow-up email in 30 days. Let us know what happens. But if you do what we tell you, I'm very confident

you'll see gains in strength within the second or third week. And just to- Okay, thank you. Just coming from somebody- Just out of curiosity, how is Maps Denabolic, Maps PowerLift different from the usual five-through run program? Oh, it's Maps to Anabolic, three days a week, it's lower volume, the exercise would be

very familiar. Full body. Yep, it's full body each time, essentially. You're doing less volume overall, first phase is very low rep, then you'll start to ramp up as the program progresses. But that plus the reduction in running and bumping calories, new stimulus, more calories. Active recovery in between. That's right, then you should see that.

But you have, do you already have anabolic, Doug says? Is it anabolic or power lift? No, anabolic. Have you followed anabolic? No, I took a look at it and it looked pretty, exactly lower volume. Exactly what I said. Turn me off a little bit.

You guys know. No, follow it. Exactly what I was worried about. Watch what happens. I know people when they first get switched over to that, they have a tendency, especially people that have been lifting for a while, to go, oh, okay, I'll just do my, also this.

And no, don't do that. Follow it as it's laid out. Trust the process. If you trust us, trust the process. Follow that. And from one kratom user to another, I would treat it very similar to how I treat marijuana caffeine. It's like, who am I to tell you you can't or don't use it or whatever like that?

I just think that all those can have addictive properties to it. And if you are going to utilize it because it does help you or you do like it, just be aware of how often, how consistent in the ramping up of it and give yourself a threshold of, hey, when I notice I've done it for this many days in a row or this many pills or whatever it is that you're taking, powder wise, it's probably time for me to reverse the other way and taper down. I think it'll serve you well if you use it like that. Thank you.

I really appreciate that. It's good timing too, cause I'm just about out anyway, so it's a good time lay off of it anyway. All right, man. All right, Taylor. All right. Thank you. Take it easy here, dude.

That is, um, first Kratom question we've had in a long time. You know what, too? It's such a... It's so frustrating because the forums where you read up on Kratom and the websites, they're all written with the intent of selling more Kratom or they're written by people who really want to justify their usage.

And so it sounds a lot like early days Medical marijuana I mean, that's why it's all positive. There's no negative. That's why I throw it in there in that category I like I said, I like it. I like it. I use it admittedly But there's a reason why we don't promote it and talk about on the show. I just like I wouldn't be Promoting those things other things that I think can be addictive I think it's important that if you use something like that, that you taper down, you cycle, become aware. I tell you what, it ramps up quick.

It ramps up really quick. It was the hardest thing I ever had, I ever stopped using. Yeah, it's up there. Never in my entire life. It's up there. And when I went through that, I was like, oh. It reminds me, so I.

Never, and I was using, not a lot. I was using what they recommend, because the typical creatimuser, which I will not recommend this, because the typical Kratom user, which I will not recommend this, because you can overdose, will use five, 10 times the amount. I used what the bottle said, and I stopped, and I was like, whoa.

You guys, you remember that, it came in here and it sucked. Our next caller is Nick from Canada. What's up, Nick? Hey, how you doing? Good, how are you guys doing? We're doing all right, man. What's going on?

In between sets or what? No, this is, um, I'm renting a place and this just happened to come with the house. So it's, it's, it's kind of my little office gym setup. So I like it. Yeah. Uh, so before I get started, big thanks to you guys. Big inspiration for me. Um, I've been a trainer for six years listening to you guys since

2019 and it's definitely helped, uh, my business, my personal growth, my, uh, professional growth. And then, uh, one little side thing, Adam, you might appreciate this. I on the side run a mobility group class because my main class is, you know, they should die. So I'm trying to influence the math. And I'm just trying to promote it more towards a progressive overload and stuff like that. I was at 45 for a while,

but I kind of branched off and I've been doing my own thing. So yeah. Awesome. How's that? How's that going so far? That's awesome. Oh, that's good. I actually do it for free. And then I just donate the money to a big brother and then on and off a little bit in the past years but I've started it since May and then I got a gym that I was doing it at wanted me to run a few classes and hopefully I can influence the classes to be more strength focused. That's awesome. Yeah. Very cool. So my original question was I'm kind of a digital nomad. So in Canada, it's super cold in winter.

And so for example, today it's minus 10 and that's actually like not that bad. So I hate the winter time. Rents are weirdly expensive. So I kind of do short term rentals, go with the flow. So that's why I'm kind of here and actually have this to do my business. I work mostly on Zoom like this, and then I have a few in-person people here and there. And then I have a decent amount of clients who I do programming for. The last two winners, I've gone to South America for three months at a time, places like Ecuador, Argentina,

Colombia, Dominican, and then even one month, three times separate, I had a client out in British Columbia that needed me to cat sit, cat sit, so then I've been able to like travel across here and there and still work online, which is kind of cool. And I think it's somewhat unique. When I'm home, I obviously have like lots of family and friends and I have another job I teach out of college, but it's kind of hard time and it's kind of taking go where I need to. And so when I travel, my workload gets cut me half. And I have like minimal distractions.

So I've been doing what I call monk mode, where I can listen to lots of books, podcasts, try to work on the business, try to do more social media stuff. I've been practicing podcasting funny enough the last few months, and then I've been blogging somewhat regularly for about a year and I'm very excited with the way it's going. This winter I was hoping to go away but the housing situation actually was too good to pass up and I'll probably go away for a month in April and then after that I think I'll go away next winter because again I can only tolerate so many winters. So I just turned 30 this past year. And I want to know what you guys would kind of do if you were in my situation

from the standpoint of how would you maximize personal growth and business growth while you're traveling abroad? Where would you guys like to go? What kind of activities would you like to do when you guys go to those places? And there is a small caveat, because about 10 of my clients, I have to do zoom, and there's a time zone constriction versus the other 1020 people who I have, again, I just kind of have programming, I can send out voice notes and videos and stuff like that. And then how would you guys also maximize

like the work-life balance where you can still travel for several months at a time but then also maximize you know what you want to do when you travel but then also maximize the time for you know development. So yeah I don't know if you guys have any more questions or information for that but yeah. Yeah I got you Nick Nick. Okay, so let me paraphrase all of it so I can answer this with what I think here. So you travel a lot, you kind of do your thing, enjoy yourself, you do a lot of personal development stuff when you travel, then you come home,

you don't have a permanent residence, but you do stay in places and kind of take advantage of each environment. And the question is, how do you balance all that? And then, oh yeah, you're turning 30. So I- I just turned 30. Just turned 30.

Okay, so I'm gonna guess that what you feel inside of you, as a young man, is a yearning for something and you can't quite grasp what it is. Like, what is it? Why am I not feeling fully fulfilled? I'm assuming that's why you're calling us. Like what can I do? Is there anything I can do better? A little bit. It's also like I kind of lean into the seasons of life so like I know I'm never going to be this age again and I don't have too many things here. Like I don't have a house, don't have a significant other. I do have family that I come

home to, but I may as well travel while I can because I know once I have a family, I'm going to be kind of stuck before I'm out. That makes sense. Yeah. And you just really solidified what I was thinking about that last comment. So there's a couple of phases in a man's life that he goes through. There's the young man phase where you're free, you live for yourself, you go around, do your thing, there's no tie-down, no nothing. Then the second part is where you grow up, you become responsible, you start a family, you raise kids. And unfortunately what happens to a young man is what he's sold and what he's told and he believes, I believe this, a

lot of us believe this, is that the second phase sucks. I'm stuck. I can't go anywhere. I got to live my life while I can, enjoy life while I can because then when I take on responsibility, everything sucks. It's a huge lie. It's a massive lie and what you're feeling right now is only gonna grow until you take on your responsibility, find somebody, settle down, start a family, and stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about others. You need to be more other focused.

My advice to you if you were somebody close to me is I'd look at you and I'd say, bro, you lived a great life. You did what you wanted. You lived for yourself. Now it's time to live for somebody else. So you gotta make those hard decisions and become a man, essentially.

And somebody else isn't gonna find you bouncing from Airbnb every month. So at some point, you need to set, and by the way, this is also going to serve you career and business-wise too. 100%. Because I'm hearing everything you're doing and I'm just like, man, the fact that you can do that and actually survive and make enough money

to pay for your hobbies and to travel like that is already cool enough. You got some skills. If you want to be really good and you really want to scale a business and make exponentially more money, part of that would be settling you down somewhere. Settling down and building a home base,

building a business around the time zone that you're in and and really letting it grow and and that also guess what will probably attract The right mate and then then that next phase of your life make you grow like that And what what I feel you're wrestling with is right with salsa We're in I was already thinking the same thing is that wrestling with that Am I gonna fall into that Peter Pan syndrome or is this my body naturally telling me that this is kind of time for me to settle down? And then how do I do that without losing all this stuff that I love to do so much? And I agree with you, Mike, it just gets better, bro. It just gets better. You won't lose that independence.

You won't lose that neat side. And you'll love it. It reminds me also of the phases of having a child like you know everybody talks about oh what's the best phase it just keeps getting better and better and better they're all different yeah I had a friend just like you my friend bath I hope he's watching right now love him and he was in his early 30s and he would always rent like a room in some apartment or some house and he had a business that he could run whenever he was in town and then he would travel for four months out of the year and I was envious for a while like man this

guy's just free he does what he wants when he comes into town he dates somebody then he leaves him and does his own thing and he's whatever and then he met somebody that he really fell for and he settled down and had a child and I talked to him and he's like, man, I was lost. This is the best thing ever. He's like, it's hard, it's different. The old me had to die, but this is so much better. Now I see him on Facebook. He's got a beautiful daughter.

He's got a great business, wonderful wife, and that old him is gone. And so this is just, I think that's what you're probably feeling. These are all seasons, dude. That's it. Yeah, you're going through this season. Obviously now it's kind of like tugging at you like what's next, like what's in the future. And, um, and again, stability is, it's not sold very well, right? It seems like it's like a, uh, you're boxed in, but

at the same time, all these things you love to do, it's not like you're forfeiting that you're just, you're bringing other people into what you love to do And that's all it's all gonna attract people once you create that stable environment to draw people in since you're a reader There's a good book by Rick Warren called purpose-driven life. Oh love that great great great book So probably a good read pick that up right around now. I think would be a good time But yeah, dude, I think I think you got a pretty cool setup, what you're doing and a lot of fun. I even feel like the question, you didn't even have like a full direct question. So I think we all get the same sense from you on where you're

at in your life. And we probably sound like your mom and dad. Yes, I know. No. A little bit, but I was, I know it wasn't like a direct question. I was just kind of curious. I'm like, okay, like I'm gonna ask, like I look up to you guys a little bit as like, you're like halfway between where my parents

would be in my age. So it's kind of like a nice stepping stone. And I, I obviously admire you guys a little bit. So I'm actually a little surprised by the answer, but like it's probably exactly what I need. Usually, you know, when a caller calls you guys, you can almost, they almost predict what their answer is going to be. And I wasn't expecting that answer, but I, you know, that I think,

well, yeah, this will be the most incredible adventure of your life. It will also be harder than anything you've experienced, but you wanna grow. If you really wanna grow, because sometimes people say that, I wanna grow, but really what they mean is, I just wanna be comfortable and enjoy things.

But if you really wanna grow, growth doesn't happen from being comfortable, it happens from being uncomfortable and settling down, dedicating yourself to one woman, having children, well, it will make you into somebody that you can't even believe if you embrace it. And part of embracing that is sacrifice. Nothing new is born without something dying. So there's a part of you that's gonna,

you just kind of like retire it, like okay, I'm not that person anymore. And the advice for me to piggyback off that advice is this is not us saying or me saying go find a woman, settle down, get married, have kids. Find your purpose. Yes. At least find a home base and start to really build you and a foundation.

I think you doubling and tripling down on that, you'll attract the right person. It'll happen. They'll find you because you're so heavily focused on growing as an individual and building that foundation for yourself, it'll happen. So I don't know if I'm pushing you to go find and marry and have a kid right away per se, but I think you're at a point in your life

where it's probably time to build kind of a home base. Purpose-driven life, great recommendation. That book is amazing, read it. Okay, I'll put it on my next wish was on audible I think I have like 50 on my audible hey real quick real quick Nick do you have your trainer do you have prime prime pro can I give you something I have those I have a few other I myself need to do symmetry more often I know that it's hard to step back out of it I

think I have a few other I'd like the RGB is it RGB RGB bundle yeah I have that and then you guys don't need to get me any are you guys already I'd love to are you in our forum Nick let's keep talking you're in our forum or trainer course I was debating doing the trainer course at some point and then yeah that's where I probably would want to go at some point I don't like that one thing I don't like is Facebook I try to avoid it okay but yeah all right well if you want to be on one of those forums we have a free trainer one and a free general I'd love to see you in the course because listening to your cool business that you've

already kind of done for yourself, the CRM that we're doing now, I think would serve you really well. So I definitely think that that would be great. So if you're not, at least attend the webinars. We just did another one. I know you guys did one last night. I was doing my mobility thing last night, but I think I signed up for it just in time so I could get the recording sent out.

Awesome. If you didn't, hit us back. But if not, yeah, definitely watch those. Awesome, cool. Thank you guys for your time, and I hope you guys have a good rest of your day. You too, man. Thank you.

That's an interesting question. Hey, were you guys all feeling the same? I was just like, when's the question going to come? Yeah. I don't have any responsibility. It's funny. I'm turning 30. Like, uh, all right, bro, stop it.

Were you guys the first in your friend group to be that guy that actually created stability and kind of broke off of that? That was my experience. Bro, I'm the opposite. I'm the opposite. I was the last one. I was the last one.

You had good reason. And it worked out for you. Yeah. It worked out perfectly. Oh, for sure. There was a plan for you, for sure. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, this is just every, listen, young women experience this faster than men

because they have a quote unquote biological clock. So they hit 30 and all of a sudden they're like, oh my God, I wanna have kids. A man doesn't have that. Uh-uh. And so. I think that's why. A man doesn't have that. I think that's why it's confusing when they feel it. Yes. Because they still feel it the same way. That's right. It's just it's different. It's different interpretation. I shouldn't feel this way. No and what do

they do? They placate it with video games and pleasure and money. Vacations all the time. Yeah, you know, and sex and whatever and then next thing you know you're in your 40s. Oh I need to settle down and it's like oh fuck then next thing you know you're in your 40s, I need to settle down. And it's like, oh fuck, what happened? So he's feeling it for a reason. I hope he takes our advice, because I think it would be the right thing for him to do. Our next caller is Justin from Connecticut.

What's up, dude? How you doing, Justin? What's up, brother Justin? What's up, Justin? Yeah, I love seeing you. How you guys doing? We're good, man. My question is about grip and grip strength.

So I have pretty small hands. It doesn't mean anything, I swear. And my palms are like really, really smooth. Like sneakers with no traction on the bottom. So with dead lifting, the bar slips right to the tips of my fingers and I'm like holding on for dear life. I can put, I usually have to put the bar down after like two or three reps and regrip. I, for years now, I've been able to squat heavier than I can deadlift just because I can't hold on to the bar. I can't perform hook grip. I used to be a crossfitter, so I, not anymore. Thank

you guys. I can't do the hook grip with my thumb under the other fingers because I can't reach all the way around the bar and gloves also don't help. I do farmers carries and suitcase carries to try to improve my grip, but I think it improves a little bit, but I still can't get a good grip on the bar. Wrist straps have been making a big difference, but then they bruise my wrists so much that some of my patients at work have made comments asking if I was like harming myself. And I'm not. So what do you guys suggest for improving my grip? How about chalk?

Are there yard work? How about chalk, Justin? You chalk at all? I used to do that in CrossFit. I haven't done that here because I work out in my basement and that makes a mess. Is that the answer? Well, liquid chalk too. There's liquid chalk that works really well. So, I mean that'll help, right? That'll help. I'll do it. There's also this, like, I mean a lot of, I don't know, where's your deadlift at right already are you still deadlift in pretty good weight before that happens or where is that happen 135?

Ah, no, no, no, like maybe 220 230. I can get two reps. I put it down I do two or three reps. I could do two or three reps. So in the phase one of Maps and a ball like I had to do just four reps and I was able to get up to like 230 But I couldn't even do four at a time Yeah liquid chalk mixed grip switch the grip back and forth. And then to strengthen your grip, get yourself a gripper. They're really cheap. You can buy them on Amazon and like the little squeezy thing with the

oil. That's it. Ah, okay. And don't get a strong one. Don't get one. That's really hard. Get one. That's easy.

Okay. And then throughout the day. Frequency. Yeah, throughout the day, three or four or five times a day, just, and don't go crazy. Don't give yourself a pump and don't make it all hard, but like squeeze it like 20 times and then put it down. And then a couple hours later,

squeeze it again 20 times, put it down. And just, if you start to get fatigued or you feel sore, you did too much. And so you just, it's just frequency. Practice, frequency and practice. And then lastly, look, there fatigued or you feel sore, you did too much. And so it's just frequency, practice, frequency and practice. And then lastly, there's a few things you said. I don't wanna make a mess with chalk, my hands are soft, what do I do about that?

I get a bruise on my wrist. Like you gotta accept that you're working out and there's gonna be a little bit of, you're gonna see some marks, you're gonna get some damage. This is kind of what it is. So I want some dirt under your nails. Are you a massage therapist or something? Are you doing something with your hands on your client?

Where's the client's? So I'm an optometrist, so I touch people's eyes and eyelids a lot, so the gentle, delicate hands work for that. Oh, I see. I had a feeling it had some sort of root reason why this was important. I thought you were a hand model or something.

Oh yeah. It was beautiful. Oh, yeah. No, you know, liquid chalk is, I use liquid chalk. I go to a commercial gym. They don't allow chalk and so, and liquid chalk works really well. So you just rub it on and then you allow it to dry. And it's as good as traditional chalk and it doesn't leave a mess.

Yeah. I will definitely be getting that. And then the wrist straps really make a difference. I didn't know also if I should maybe buy one of those women's, I think that's what they call it, the women's bars that are a little bit thinner in circumference. Yeah, that could help.

So that would help too? Definitely, definitely could help. And then mixed grip, you know? One set like this, one set like this, right? And then, and here's the deal. The limiting factor for your deadlift is your grip. So over time, your grip will get stronger. If you're trying to maximize the hip extension, you can do exercises like

good mornings where the bar is across your back, and then that will train that particular area. But a lot of people look at a deadlift and they think it's, Oh, it's just a back exercise or just the hip exercise. No, it's also a hand exercise. So whatever your limiting factor is, that's just your limiting factor. So, it's also a hand exercise. So whatever your limiting factor is, that's just your limiting factor. So always consider that as well.

Yep. Okay. I'm on Amazon right now and I'm putting it in my cart. Right on. Awesome. Right on Justin. Thank you dude. Thank you guys so much.

You guys are incredible. You got it man. Thanks Justin. I appreciate it. All right, take care guys. You rock, dude. That was funny. He's like D. Yeah. That was funny. He's like, it hurts.

Makes it dirty. Well, I knew he had to do something with his hands for that to matter. I get a boo-boo. Yeah. I thought it was massage therapist. It's part of his profession. No, no, that makes sense.

That makes sense. You know what chapped had calluses when you're massaging people and doing something there? I'm like, get outside and dig a hole with your hands. Yeah. Great. And he's talking about, can you imagine doing like a Thomas tree stuff with like bidding Greenfield's hands No, but you're you know that frequency yeah advice I gave him it works

Exceptionally well, but the mistake people make is they turn it into a workout. They overdo it. Yeah, but if you just play with one kind of throughout the day a little bit, you would be surprised. It's like our pull-up advice. Exactly. Just get up there. You don't try and go to failure. You get up there and just do one or two pull-ups, jump back down, do it all day long. Pick up heavy stuff, man. Like all kinds of different shapes and sizes. Just do it. Our next caller is Dina from New Jersey. Hi Dina. Hi Dina. How can we help you? Hi, how are you? Good. So I've been a trainer for 20 years and I've trained clients with multiple health issues, but never one that has had a stroke. Recently, a client has asked me to train her husband who had suffered a pretty severe stroke and is still struggling to get his strength back. He does PT and rehab but is missing the full body muscle strengthening piece. I would love to get some advice on how I would modify a usual assessment test when first

meeting him and should I focus more on machines that provide a set range of motion to build some initial muscle? Because the brain and nervous system has been affected by the stroke, what exercises would you recommend I begin with for the client to learn the essentials of how to brace, engage the core, ground the feet to the floor, changing their center of gravity more to the back of their legs. So I've since met with this client and actually got more information about the issues. So his right leg is flaring out.

He walks with support. His right arm has been affected. He has some face tingling and then not related to the stroke. He has a meniscus tear in his right knee. He had hip replacement, so his right leg is a little bit longer and he has neck impingement. So since meeting with him, he has this goal, he expressed this goal of being able to lead prayers for the Jewish holidays, which are in September, October, which would mean being on his feet for a few hours at a time. So I think that not only involves the strength component but an endurance one as well.

So I've started doing certain exercise to increase the mind muscle connection, especially with isometric holds and and have seen progress in just a couple of meetings. I've also recommended that he walk on the treadmill like a treadmill protocol, slowly increase the time with that like just a few minutes. If he's consistent with it. Do you think this is the right approach? And what should I be focusing on more to help him get closer to achieving his goal? That's perfect.

Yeah, you're doing great. You're doing great. That's exactly what you need to do. I love the armor carries with him. Yeah, you know what you do is you, because of the stroke and it affected him on one side more than the other, which is common, you would do unilateral exercises for certain ones.

It really depends on what's affected, but the idea is to slowly see if you could progress him. And I love isometrics. I love isometrics for this kind of stuff. What about carries? Like one side at a time and walk? If he can do it. But he walks assisted, right?

But if he can, yeah. Yeah, he's not very stable. So I have, we've done sit-in stands. So that was something that he was doing in rehab and I had him demonstrate it for me. And right away I could see like the core engagement and the mid back engagement was lacking. So even from just practicing that a few times the first time we met, he was able to focus in on that and right away had a lot more stability and

force coming up. Um, I spoke to his rehab, um, perfect, you know, technician like his PT and he said he's not limited, you know, in terms of the stroke, um, he's very motivated, but he needs assistance a lot. So in terms of farmer care is he wouldn't be able to do that. Like he can't really walk or he doesn't feel comfortable doing that yet. So I've done,'ve done like bent knee raises with holds at the top calf raises holding the last one incorporating like rear leg raises to strengthen the glutes because he can't really get down on the floor to do a bridge yet.

So those type of things. Perfect. Yeah, You're so smart. You're doing great. You're on point. So isometrics, I would really use a lot of isometrics. And remember isometrics isn't just isolated to the end range of motion. So, you know, like let's say you do an isometric at the top of a calf raise, right? That's one part of the movement.

But I can also do an isometric halfway up, right? Come up halfway and hold. Or I go also do an isometric halfway up, where I come up halfway and hold. Or I go to the stretch and I come up just a little bit and hold. So this is the way that I would use isometrics with someone like this, is I would pick the part where they can do an isometric, get stronger there, and then I'd move them out of that range of motion and do a hold there. Essentially you're strengthening the full range of motion. Especially the unstable part. Through isometrics, exactly.

And then you said just, what you said just now that was perfect, instead of a former walk, you could do a stationary hold, right? Where you hold something. On one side. Progressively, very progressively. And just holds himself there while he's holding weight that is more on one side type of deal.

So he learns to stabilize the shift. Would you recommend that I do that on his right side? Because that's the arm and the hand and the grip that's more effective both sides independently. So yeah, once the weaker side determine the load. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Just okay. Because I've seen even with using the band because we started also doing that for like kind of mid range back rows. So I see even that like the more he focuses in on the stronger the grip is. So what would queuing be, let's say if he's holding a free weight for that, like how would I necessarily cue that when there's still like a little bit of a lag in that communication? Yeah, it would literally, as he's doing the movement, you're going to have to cue different parts of the movement, but I, I, I as he's doing the movement, you're going to have to cue different

parts of the movement, but isometrics with the dumbbell too. So let's say I'm doing a row, okay? And let's say I'm doing a one arm cable row and I'm seated or something. So you have him in a stationary position, he's stable, he holds onto the handle. I would have him do a couple sets where he's holding back here. Then we can do a set where he's holding mid range. Then he could do a set where he's holding here in the shortened range.

Even with the rotation as well. Yeah, a little bit of rotation even. Because payload press too, like we could progress to this point. Yes. Yeah, that was on my list. OK, yeah, sustaining any kind of rotation. Because what you're doing is you're countering all the forces laterals, you know rotational

And so we just got to consider how we could you know progress Obviously the rotational ones gonna require the most stability, which is what we're gonna work. Yeah. Yeah, you're doing great You know, but yeah your own point I mean the best advice I could give you is look at a movement Look at the full range of motion and then each point within that range of motion. You can do an isometric Yeah, like three points the very beginning, middle, there you go. Yeah. Can I ask you a quick personal question? Of course, go for it. Okay so I've you know obviously been training myself too and really I love doing the low rep range. You had an episode where you guys talked about kind of with your programming, keeping the

low rep ranges and then going to like the higher rep ranges separate to kind of see what's really effective. So let's say like with anabolic programming. So you start off in the low rep range and then it progresses to doing like more of the 12-15 rep range. But for my age group I'm 46. So for women at this age they really recommend for the compound lift staying in that low rep range for the nervous system. So is it okay that I'm kind of combining both

like doing let's say keeping the rows deadlifts pull-ups in the lower rep range and then for a little bit of hypertrophy going to the 12, 15 or really I should start separating. Yeah. Well, you just quoted as a myth. So the reason why they tell that's the reason why they say avoid the higher reps is because the volume increases when the reps go up. And so what people don't do is they don't adjust their volume. Okay. So if you do five sets of five, and then you move to five sets of 30, your volume is increased dramatically.

But all those rep ranges are hypertrophy. All those rep ranges strengthen your central nervous system. You just got to be mindful of the increased volume. So as you go through MAPS anabolic phase two and three require more recovery. And if you're finding that it's frying your body a little bit, cut the volume, cut the volume down, But they're all valuable. I kind of came from the 12 to 15 rep range, so getting into those lower was really exciting and fun.

I don't wanna leave them. Oh yeah, no, but they're all valuable. If you just get stuck in the low rep range, then you'll also plateau. It's just good practice to kind of weave in and out of these different types of I mean I would I would argue that novelty trumps any one of the rep ranges. So whatever one you do more of Moving out into the other one is going to benefit muscle the end of the day. That's okay. Great. Thank you so much

Thank you, Dina. Okay, take care of my own point. I love it Have you ever trained somebody with a straw? Yeah, bye. Bye. On point, I love it. I love what you're doing. Have you guys ever trained somebody with a sword? Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing the progress they can make. Of course it's limited depending on the damage that's caused, but it's incredible how the body starts to redirect patterns, compensate in some cases.

Compensations is a real adaptation that can be beneficial for someone who's lost complete function of a particular muscle. I love that though, isometrics, she was on point with that and being able to like reconnect and recruit again. And I mean, there's really nothing better than that. And this is a type of client that makes you love what you do, because this is the person.

Oh, you change their life. Yeah, yeah, completely. And you can see pretty good progress pretty fast. You're doing all the right things that she's doing right now. She'll see the progress. Oh yeah, for. Yeah. Look, if you love the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump with Stefano and Adam is at Mind Pump. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall

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