Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2519: Dumbbell Flys vs. Cable Flys... The Better Chest Builder Revealed (Listener Live Coaching)

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Starting point is 00:00:56 Ontario. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind there's only one place to go. Mind pump, with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast in the world. This is Mind Pumped. In today's episode, we answered live caller's question. People called in and we got to help them on air,

Starting point is 00:01:23 but this was after an intro portion. Now in the intro, we talk about current events, fitness, studies, family life. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, where you call in, we help you out. Email us your question at live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Seed. This is the world's best probiotic.

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Starting point is 00:02:41 All right, here comes the show. One of the best exercises you could do to develop your chest are flies. Flies are a staple in every chest workout, but what is more effective, cables or dumbbells? In other words, what should you pick for your flies for your chest to get the most development? Go with cable, go with the dumbbells. Let's talk about it. Cables.

Starting point is 00:03:02 Flies for the guys. I'm cables all the way. Well, let's talk about it. Why?. Flies through the gates. Cables all the way. Well, let's talk about why. Why do you pick cables right out the gates? Well, beginner or advanced too, I still would. It's the time under tension. You have the strength curve. It's the entire time through the...

Starting point is 00:03:16 Consistent tension. Yeah, consistent tension from the fullest open range of motion all the way to the closed. And with dumbbells, although by the way, I mean I always advocate for free weights and dumbbells. There is only a small portion where the greatest tension is on the chest and then as you get closer and closer to the top of the movement, very little tension

Starting point is 00:03:38 is put on the chest. Even now, the most advanced lifter can do a good job of keeping that by squeezing and choosing to intrinsically do that, which is what I do. But the beginner, I'd say, would have a harder time doing that. So, okay, so for people who are, you know, kind of not understanding that, right,

Starting point is 00:03:59 when you're on a bench, let's do a flat fly about dumbbells, right? When the dumbbells are up here at the top, there's no tension really on my chest because the dumbbells aren't fighting gravity, or at least my chest isn't fighting gravity. As I bring the dumbbells out, now I'm opposing gravity. So the 50 pound dumbbells or whatever I'm using

Starting point is 00:04:18 are heaviest at the bottom. At the top, there's almost no tension. And so I'm glad you went where you went, Adam, because I used to agree with you. I used to agree with you because with cables, 50 pounds at the bottom is 50 pounds in the center. Whereas with the dumbbells, it's really, the tension is mostly at the bottom.

Starting point is 00:04:36 Now here's why I disagree now. Now, anecdotally, I've always, I've heard the argument objectively. I'm like, well, cables have tension all the way through. They should be better. But with my clients and with myself, um, I've always noticed that dumbbells might be a little better. And I just couldn't explain it.

Starting point is 00:04:55 It didn't make any sense because the tension is the same all the way through. Well, now we have these studies showing that the portion of the wrap that contributes the most to hypertrophy. Deepest stretch. It's the stretch. Right. And so because the dumbbells essentially are training the stretch position, the hardest and the heaviest, you are, you might be triggering the most hypertrophy because of that stretch. Now you can get a stretch with the cable too, but the fatigue might set in a little more because the tension.

Starting point is 00:05:24 I was just gonna say if I was trying to make an argument for your case, stretch with the cable too, but the fatigue might set in a little more because the tension's all over the place. I was just going to say, if I was trying to make an argument for your case, although I disagree with you, but if I were going to agree with you, the argument that I would make is that because of the fact that you don't have the tension on the pack at the top, you're not going to fatigue out as early as you will with cables. I mean, cables, let's say, however much you load it, you're only going to be able to do so much weight. Let's say you're trying to complete 10 reps. I got to choose a weight with cables that I can complete the full range of motion 10 reps. And I'm more likely to only be able to do a weight that is less than the stress that the

Starting point is 00:06:09 heaviest load of dumbbell I could do because the dumbbell as long as I can get it out of that hole I almost get a little bit of a breather and break before I go right back down again and then I get then it's hard and then easy and so those in the course of 10 reps I get a little bit more rest let's say on the pec therefore I can load it a little bit heavier in the stretch in this in the course of 10 reps, I get a little bit more rest, let's say, on the pec, therefore I can load it a little bit heavier. In the stretch. In the stretch position. Yes.

Starting point is 00:06:30 I mean, you can make that argument. Yeah, and I wouldn't have necessarily said that before except for anecdote. Again, I've had clients do both and, you know, it's minor, by the way. I don't think it's a huge difference, but I do think it's a difference. Do we have any studies, Sal, that compare a,

Starting point is 00:06:49 and I know this depends on even the machine and the pulley system that that individual machine has, because I'm like, what we would like to see is 50 pounds on the cable is equated to X amount, like, you know what I'm saying, do we have, but it's too hard because every cable, like a free motion is different than a standard. You could have two pulley setups and 50 pounds and that's 20 pounds or something like that. Yeah I don't know I

Starting point is 00:07:11 don't I don't know of any studies like that but I think because the tensions in the stretch most of the resistance is there that's what you're stressing the most and now we have studies showing that loading the stretch is where a lot of the hypertrophy tends to happen. Now, by the way, this is a plus, but it can also be a minus because if you have trouble connecting to your chest, where you're going to want to focus is the squeeze. Anytime you have trouble connecting to a muscle, it's the shortened position that allows you to contract and squeeze in that position.

Starting point is 00:07:43 So for someone who like they bench, they incline, like I don't feel my chest at all, cable would probably be better because you can squeeze and oh I can start to feel the chest. Now, does 10% loading the muscle in the stretch outweigh though the total time and attention benefits that you're getting from the cable? Great question.

Starting point is 00:08:02 I don't know. And also those angles in between in terms of, so I have the full stretched out angle where I'm stressing it the most, but then all those angles preceding that leading up into the squeeze to challenge that. I just know that from breaking it down isometrically when you start to kind of really focus on these different angles where a lot of the momentum carries you through those moments versus the cable itself will actually challenge those moments I think a little bit further. That's what I'm saying right now.

Starting point is 00:08:33 The time it took. So to make your argument would also be arguing that the ability to load the pack by 10% more in the stretch position, and I'm just using a round number 10% for argument's sake, loading it by 10% more outweighs the total amount of time and attention that you're getting in the cable because you're gonna get a significant amount more of time and attention. Now it's at a lighter weight, hence your argument. Yeah, so which one is better? And obviously what we always say is both.

Starting point is 00:09:04 It depends I think too on acceleration, so which one is better? And obviously what we always say is both, right? Do both. It depends, I think, too, on acceleration. So if you're going for more of an explosive fast twitch, obviously cables are gonna be preferable, I would think. It's safer, for sure. Yeah, well, and just more consistent and fluid. Now there's two other points that I like to make with this, which is for shoulder,

Starting point is 00:09:21 if you're working on shoulder stability, free weights are free weights. I like them because you have to balance them. I mean, the potential for the dumbbell to go anywhere is higher than with a cable. So when it comes to working on shoulder health and mobility, um, then the dumbbell probably edges out the cable. And then on the other side, cables, I can do it from any position. With dumbbells, I'm working with gravity.

Starting point is 00:09:47 But with cables, I mean, I could stand and do flies, I could lay down and do flies, I could do cable crossover type flies. I mean, any angle I want, the versatility with cables is amazing because the pulley can be attached at many different positions. So you have, again, a plus and a minus for both of them. I actually really like kettlebells for how they're loaded.

Starting point is 00:10:08 Oh. Behind the arms. Yeah, and just the downward forces with gravity, it's great. You know what you get with kettlebells is you get more time under tension than with dumbbells. Because as I'm coming up with the kettlebell, it lags behind my hand. Right. So it's actually harder towards the top than a dumbbell would be the same way. I've've done flies with kettlebells. Yeah, not a lot of people do that. No, I'm so glad you said that.

Starting point is 00:10:30 We did that in Kettlebells for Aesthetics. We did. It's not a program we talk a lot about, but we did that. However much weight you use with dumbbells and flies, you can't do that with kettlebells. You'll find real quick it's harder because the weight lags behind the hand. So when I'm up here with a dumbbell, that's it, I'm done with kettlebells, it's still behind me. There's still tension there. You know, you might get the best of both worlds with that. My favorite part about this discussion, Sal, more than who's more right in this is this is just a classic example of why I don't think anybody who speaks in absolutes around fitness like that, I think that's just a silly thing to do because you could put me in a position with a lot of different things like that

Starting point is 00:11:08 and I feel like I can argue either side really well. Totally. And so when we get into this, like in our space is notorious for this, right? Where a new influencer or a fitness science nerd guy comes out and says, this is the best based off of these studies. And it's just like, okay, yeah, based off of that study, that's a good argument for

Starting point is 00:11:26 that, but you can totally take a totally other approach and make an argument for why that's not, and something else is. And the truth is this is why it's important that we want to understand this too, that we reap the benefits of both. And this just shows you how unique the two of them, even though you, let's say you were doing both of them in the, like say lying down position and you're doing the cable flies, that way you do dumbbells, even though it may seem like it's the same exercise, it's almost like a completely different exercise because

Starting point is 00:11:53 they each carry different benefits. Yes. And the reason why I like these discussions is, is if you're listening and you start to understand the pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses of each, it gives you a little insight on how to program for yourself. Because again, if you're somebody that finds it difficult to connect to your chest when you do a bench press. And so let's say you think to yourself like, well, maybe I'll do an isolation exercise

Starting point is 00:12:16 first, get a little pump on my chest so when I bench press, I know how to position my elbows, move the bar to feel it more in my chest. A fly might be best with a cable in that case, because cables, because of the tension of the center where you squeeze, that helps you connect, right? You may be listening to this and being like, well, you know, when I bench and I want my bench to go up, I have a sticking point at the bottom. The bottom is really hard. Well, a fly might actually convert better to a bench if we're thinking of it as an exercise to support another exercise because the fly's heaviest at the bottom if you're tight in the shoulders You need to work on shoulder mobility Well, you may when you use dumbbells a little bit again for the stretch and a you know, the mobility perspective and then from a from an angle

Starting point is 00:12:58 You know Situation you're let's say you're experienced You want to add variety you want to try all kinds of different varieties of flies and have a good time with them. You can't do that necessarily with dumbbells. But yeah, you're dumb if you look at your toolbox and you start throwing tools out because one tool is better for a job than another. No, no, no, save that tool.

Starting point is 00:13:18 You know, it reminds me of my dad's tool. I know all of our dads are all blue collar guys or whatever. I go to my dad's toolbox and he's got stuff in there that he almost never uses, but when he needs that tool, it's there. It's not like he just has a hammer and screwdriver. I still buy tools every year for Christmas, at least something.

Starting point is 00:13:35 Do you realize you're so excited? He gets so excited. Yeah, because he's never gonna use it. My dad even has like certain screws and things that he never, you know, that's like, but like 10 years later, he's like, Oh, I got that. He'll pull it out. It's kind of like a digital ruler. Now, can you guys, do you remember the last workout where you were contemplating, Oh, I'm going to do, I'm going to do some flies. I might do cable. I'm going to do dumbbell. What you decided and why do you remember? I was, that's what

Starting point is 00:14:02 I was trying to, well, you were talking. I'm like, when was the last time I made that decision? And why did I make that decision? You know what's funny? Here's how I make my decision based on these two. It isn't necessarily, well one, number one, which one have I been doing more of, and then I'll sometimes switch. Oh, I've been doing flies and dumbbells for a while,

Starting point is 00:14:17 let me go to cables and vice versa. But I do notice that dumbbells seem to hammer my body a little more than the cables do. So if I'm like, ugh, I'm a little bit teetering on maybe doing too much, but I wanna do another exercise, I'll go to cables. If I'm feeling strong and I wanna go hard and heavy and I feel fully recovered and I haven't done dumbbells

Starting point is 00:14:37 in a while, then I'll choose dumbbells. And that's just a personal choice. I just notice that dumbbells tend to take a little more out of me. Yeah. Yeah. How about you, Nathan? No, all I could come up with is when I'm feeling lazy. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:48 I mean, being honest, right? I was like, what was the last, and I'm like, you know. If it's accessible, I'm like, I'll jump in. Well, the cables are easy. They are easy. They're easy. Like, I don't gotta take them off the rack and carry them over, you know, rock them back up.

Starting point is 00:14:59 It is a bit of a setup with the dumbbells. There's a little bit more grinding, I feel, of a grind with the dumbbells, where the cables then get in there, just a real easy light, you know, I don't get to move very much. So I think the last time I decided it was based off. But okay, very similar to kind of your point though, it's probably because I didn't get the greatest of sleep in this workout or I didn't need that much intensity. And so for me, that's probably when that makes sense.

Starting point is 00:15:23 Now I'm in the flow. I'm like, I'm killing my workouts good sleep and I'm like I want to I want to increase the intent I want to do something different then I would I probably would switch over and then done dumbbells that's probably how I've decided the last couple times I couldn't recall of a better reason other than a lot of times for me it's like if it's the hex dumbbells that are all big and clunky I'm not doing flies with those stupid things. You know, I'll do it with the iron ones.

Starting point is 00:15:47 Is it just like these look goofy? I don't want to do it. They're just awkward, you know, and like big and annoying and they'll pinch my hands, whatever. Oh, fuck all that shit. You gotta watch out your little hands. I still prefer, to this day, dumbbells with plates on them. More than solid dumbbells, You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:16:05 Not the one that loads you. Is it because you like the clanking sound? It might be a nostalgic thing. Yeah, like the iron ones that I can slam the other. Like they're set. I'm not talking about like I put the plates on. I know what you're talking about. But they still kind of, they rattle.

Starting point is 00:16:17 I prefer those too. They tend to get loose and rattle a little bit. They just have a different feel. Is it nostalgia? I don't like them. Well, it's thinner too, I would think. I actually liked that they went to the kind of the kind of hex you know the 24 hour fitness vibe ones yeah those don't bother me now that I because I do stuff too where I like

Starting point is 00:16:31 pinch them together like I love like one of my favorite things to do is overhead extensions with independent dumbbells so I like to take independent dumbbells pinch them on the hex and then do over over all because I'm doing one like this instead of doing one with the triangle hold, I like to pinch two together and I like to hold one. Just, I mean, personal preference. Something that you can't really do with the round ones. The round ones, it'll slide all over the place

Starting point is 00:16:54 and you can't do that. You would do the diamond hold. Just, I mean, stupid. I got an interesting study to bring up for you guys on a compound that we know to be beneficial to help during flu and cold season. If I were to tell you guys, something you could take that's natural has been shown to help with influenza and you were to make a list, elderberry would probably be.

Starting point is 00:17:19 Elderberry C. Elderberry C. Elderberry C. Elderberry C. Elderberry C. Elderberry C. Elderberry C. Elderberry the severity and the potential of actually getting infected. It's actually one of the few things that shows efficaciousness against viral infection, especially influenza.

Starting point is 00:17:34 Well, anyway, a new study came out at Washington State University that shows that elderberry juice may be a tool for weight management and enhancing metabolic health. So a critical trial found that drinking 12 ounces of elderberry juice a day for a week caused positive changes in the gut microbiome and improvements in glucose tolerance and fat oxidation. So through benefits through the microbiome they have some improvements in glucose tolerance. Isn't that interesting? Elderberry. So yes, so not only does it help with you know not getting sick, it helps with insulin sensitivity. So when

Starting point is 00:18:19 a study says you know improved microbiome what are they measuring? Just it's more diverse. And if that's the case, doesn't almost introducing anything different makes it more diverse? No, not necessarily, but yes, diversity tends to be. We tend to attach diversity to the good. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

Starting point is 00:18:40 Are they parsing out beneficial versus non-beneficial bacteria? No, they're not looking that deep. What they're noticing is changes in the microbiome, and then these changes are affecting improvements in glucose metabolism, and then they go back and look at other studies showing, do these changes contribute to glucose metabolism

Starting point is 00:18:55 improvements, and they think yes. When it comes to microbiome, the science is still. That's why I like I. Bro, literally we're gonna need AI, you know, super computer, super computers to figure this all out because of its diversity, how it interacts with the body. I feel like the gut microbiome has become in the last decade or less even, a very popular conversation that we're getting. I wouldn't know, I don't know about the average person, but more people are aware of it that's

Starting point is 00:19:24 important. And I think the easy low hanging fruit is to say that this thing diversifies it and we know that gut diversity is good, therefore this thing is good. I feel like everything, everybody's trying to attach that to it. It's just like, is it really anything

Starting point is 00:19:41 or is it really that amazing that it's done that? Because it feels like almost anything that you introduce to the gut that's new would make it different. Yeah, we'll change it. Yeah, we'll change it and create diversity. Yeah, and the more varied your diet, the more diverse it tends to be.

Starting point is 00:19:54 Yeah. I think that the best thing we know right now is that certain, there are certain beneficial bacteria that we do know have positive effects on overall health through the gut microbiome. So like we work with seed, right? Seed does a good job with this. They have the best scientists on this and they've come up with the, you know, the most beneficial bacteria. They've also created a way to deliver it where it needs to go.

Starting point is 00:20:21 And by improving the gut microbiome, you tend to improve glucose metabolism. In fact, I don't know if you guys knew this, mouthwash. Mouthwash has been connected to reduced insulin sensitivity. Yeah, maybe Doug you pull it up or type it in, mouthwash and insulin sensitivity because it wipes out the bacteria in your mouth and that seems to have a measurable effect.

Starting point is 00:20:45 Now, this is kind of like hand sanitizer, right? Like there's beneficial bacteria on the skin that gets reduced. Yeah, but that's like washing your hands. Isn't it widely accepted and known that mouthwash is not a good idea for us? Isn't that true? Not widely accepted.

Starting point is 00:21:00 It's not, well obviously not because we still sell it at grocery stores like crazy and people buy it all the time, but it is not a good thing to rinse with mouthwash Especially on a regular basis. Not unless you have a specific reason to use it like you have a mouth sore or something that you Yeah, yeah, but no you're right 100% look at this some studies have found that mouthwash use may be linked to insulin resistance and diabetes What? Uh-huh. Oh, oh, that's why. It eliminates oral bacteria that help produce nitric oxide, which is, you know,

Starting point is 00:21:28 also helps regulate insulin levels. By the way, I can say this, that a good probiotic will probably improve your body's ability to produce nitric oxide. This may be one of the reasons why probiotics have been somewhat connected loosely, but I think we'll see get better science later, to improve cardiovascular health as well.

Starting point is 00:21:50 So it's become one of those supplements, I'll tell you what, unless you have like SIBO or some gut issue where you have functional medicine practitioners telling you specifically not to take a probiotic. Probiotics, one of those supplements that are up there that everybody should probably take. Like it probably benefits everybody regardless of what your goal is, your health or whatever. Probably a good idea to

Starting point is 00:22:12 supplement with a good probiotic. I mean what are the cases when you wouldn't? Well if you have SIBO for example, a functional medicine practitioner might say I don't want you to take any bacteria at the moment. Well, it could grow, it could cause problems, or it could slow down whatever we're trying to do type of deal. So there are times when the functional medicine. I mean, that's it though, pretty much? I mean, that's the only, wow.

Starting point is 00:22:33 So if you don't have that. Or if it bothers your gut. I've taken some probiotics that gave me the opposite of it. Seeds the one I've taken the most consistent, always, always, always, and it's never. Other probiotics I'll take, and then over time, start to bother me. But the seeds the one, how long we working with them? It's been like three years? Four years. Way more than that bro. That goes back before Taylor.

Starting point is 00:22:51 Does it? Yes, Taylor. Oh, I've been taking them the whole time. Yeah, Taylor was actually the one who put me on the seed. So giving him his credit where it's due, like I didn't know who they were. And he introduced us. And then once it passed you, because then I sent it over to you, like hey, look into the science, you looked at it all into it, then you were like, oh yeah, this is legit.

Starting point is 00:23:10 And then we got, remember we brought the, was it the founder or one of the, I can't remember if it was the founder or one of the- It's been a long time now. Oh yeah, bro, this is the founder. So I've been taking it for at least six years consistently. This is six, seven years we've been with them. Wow.

Starting point is 00:23:21 Maybe more. Wow. I mean, they're a part of the- I'm telling you, before that I used to have to cycle them because it would start to bother me. Yeah, I mean everybody that's close to me, that's family and friends that we've got on seed, nothing but like-

Starting point is 00:23:34 Positive. Yeah, and these are people that, by the way, these are people that already took probiotics and then they switched over and then they notice a difference, which I find that even more impressive. It's like obviously if someone never takes any probiotics whatsoever, then you introduce it to them and they see positive, like, okay,

Starting point is 00:23:48 that makes easy sense, right? But for somebody who's consistently used probiotics and then to switch over and notice a profound difference is pretty cool. Dude, I gotta tell you guys about a conversation my four-year-old had with my wife, and then she came back to me, she's like, we gotta be careful how we talk

Starting point is 00:24:04 around the kids. They were talking and I don't know what happened. I don't know how this conversation come up about like bad guys, right? Like bad villains and bad guys sometimes exist in the real world type of deal. And he's like, mom, so if there's ever a bad guy, you take Dahlia and you guys run and me and dad will stay behind because we're the men. She's like, no you're a kid, you can't move. What are you doing? So, and I know where this came from. It came from, so we came home the other day

Starting point is 00:24:33 and I had forgotten to close the garage. So we come home, the garage is open, and it was late at night. So I told Jessica, I said, hey wait here with the kids in the car, let me go inside. Probably nothing, but let me go inside and look around. And I told Jessica, I said, hey, wait here with the kids in the car, let me go inside. Probably nothing, but let me go inside and look around, right? And I go inside and, you know, one minute

Starting point is 00:24:49 later, Jessica walks in. So I also, and I get out and I tell her, if this ever happens, you, if I don't respond or you hear something, you take the kids and run, my job is like, I'm stay there and make sure you guys are okay, but don't ever follow me, right? So I think you overheard that. So I'm like, I'm the man. I stay you guys are okay, but don't ever follow me, right? So I think he overheard that.

Starting point is 00:25:05 So I'm like, I'm the man. I stay back. I'm the one to get killed. I don't care what happens to me. Take the kids and run. So he must have heard that. He's like, we're the men. And he's like, what are you saying?

Starting point is 00:25:16 Isn't it wild how like one situation, one scenario like that, and then it makes an imprint so much that they keep saying it or keep repeating it and you can't get it. Yeah, I know, I think that's- It's so funny. I'm still in trouble about the beaver thing with Katrina. Oh, did you tell, you didn't say that on the podcast. Oh, I didn't talk about it on the podcast.

Starting point is 00:25:30 I told you guys off air about it. But it's like he has to bring it up now all the time. I'm like, Katrina's like, she just gives me this look all the time, I'm like, fuck, okay, so I made a mistake. I thought that was funny. Well, yeah, I know what you do. You say a sentence that you know what the meaning is. Yeah, yeah, I said something to her,

Starting point is 00:25:44 like in front of him, like that was, you know, referring to her, you know, private area as a beaver, right? But I did it in a way that only her and I got it, but he- Did they even use that word anymore? He picked up on like, mommy has a beaver, you know? And now it's like, all he wants to do is see her beaver, you know what I'm saying? He wants to know why daddy loves her beaver so much. And it's just like, oh, god, dude. I'd say like one time thinking it's funny and then he's like, he

Starting point is 00:26:09 never showed me. Yeah. Yeah. And he just randomly will bring it up now. I don't know where like around other people. Yeah. Just all the time now. So it's just like, my mom won't show me her beaver. I don't know what's wrong. Yeah. So daddy's in trouble for that one right now. I thought it was funny and cute when I first did it, you know, and then it's just like, but they just hang on to it. It's like, there's a million things I've said to him, probably around him that's been okay, but you know, something sparked,

Starting point is 00:26:32 maybe because he's never- He saw the reaction maybe? You know, I think, no, I think what, maybe he saw mom and dad smirking about it or something like that, but he definitely, I mean, and I think maybe it has something to do too with like, maybe that is not a common animal that we talk about or whatever, so now he's like

Starting point is 00:26:47 super curious to see it or whatever. So yeah, yeah, Katrina's been all upset about that one. I gotta show you guys, I sent a video to Doug, I wanna show you. So my daughter's two, and I don't know where she gets this sassy little attitude from, she suddenly develops. You're sassy, dude. That's what I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:27:06 No, I'm not. Only when I'm wearing. You were sassy this morning with our YouTube team. Stop, stop, stop. All sassy. We're going out, she's about to run, I'll describe to you, and this girl took her space. Look what she does, dude.

Starting point is 00:27:19 I don't know why she starts, she's stomping her foot, and then right here we're asking, we're like, why are you stomping your foot? And so she's like, that girl took my spot. Oh, that's funny. And then look what she does. That's her, uh. What are you doing little girl?

Starting point is 00:27:34 Oh my God. Just pissed off. Oh my God. She just does this thing now. She crosses her arms and she stomps when she's angry. See, she keeps doing it. Watch her. I want you to know, Dad dad I want you to know she did. So cute though. Oh it is cute. But you know when she's a teenager I'm gonna hate that. That's what you

Starting point is 00:27:54 want to do right now. So my best friend we were all together up in Truckee and my best friend has their two kids and they have a daughter and she is now what is she two and a half three now just like and she and so funny you shared this video because one of the things I was looking at my my boy I'm like oh damn bro she we're like we're in the living room doing something and uh I can't I don't know what uh his mom told her no like no no don't do that like that and she did the cross her arms and she did the dirtiest looking stuff. Her foot. Yes. Stop, stop her. And she makes this little grunt. I'm like, already right now you get that. I'm like, you know,

Starting point is 00:28:35 I don't know where they learn. I think it's natural. Like I don't, where'd she get that from? I don't stop my foot like that. It is interesting. That's the same thing too. It's like, I don't think my buddies do anything. So that's like, you know the go-to I guess Let me tell you when they're teenagers It's not so cute You must see who stomps harder I Got a way harder stop to do do let me show speaking to kids

Starting point is 00:28:59 Are you guys did you guys see the comments under the I don't know if you guys that are? Did you guys see the comments under the, I don't know if you guys did it. Under Eric Commissars? I knew it was gonna be controversial at best. You know, it's of course because we're fathers, okay. That's why it's controversial because we're fathers? No, no. Oh, I was like what?

Starting point is 00:29:17 I'm saying we're parents, okay. It was triggering. If you're a parent and you really care about your kid, it's one of the most challenging things and easiest things that happen is to look back or look at you yourself, because you care so much about your kid, you love your kid more than anything,

Starting point is 00:29:31 and you just, it's easy to break yourself down. It's so easy. Nobody's perfect, so it's easy to be like, oh my God, I yell too much, I'm not present enough, I have to work too much, or whatever. And so here we have an expert come on and talk about the data, talk about what's ideal for little kids.

Starting point is 00:29:47 And for sure, you're a parent, especially a mom. I think moms in particular can be susceptible to this. And you can hear all the things you're not doing. And so what it'll make you want to do is defend yourself fiercely. So I don't think that's why people get upset. I do. I don't think that's why people get upset.

Starting point is 00:30:03 So okay, let me ask you this, because I thought about this Who did you share that interview with anybody a? Couple people because I did okay, so I didn't oh I reason why I didn't know I'll tell you why I didn't Was because even though I thought it was an awesome interview. I was enlightening for me. I enjoyed it Because I like to be challenged that way as a parent, right? So I embrace the what I could have done better, what I'm not doing, whatever with that. I mean, and for the audience, you know, Katrina works full-time, has worked full-time with Mac. So like I'm an example of what is not ideal. Now we've done a lot of things to, I think, her pretty much still be with him and

Starting point is 00:30:39 work from home, yada yada. But point is, I have like friends that I wanted to listen to it, but I didn't want to share it. You're being attacked now. That's right. Because I feel like if I sent it to them, it's going to come off like me saying, you guys are doing all this stuff. So understand, our audience receives it like that because our audience is, here we are sharing it with them. Even though we selfishly wanted that interview, that interview, so the audience understands,

Starting point is 00:31:05 we pursue guests like this for personal growth, not because we think you all need to hear this shit. This is like, we reach out for guests like these because we like to hear this stuff, good or bad, about ourselves as parents. And so when we do an interview like that, this is not, and I think the way some people receive it, which is the people that got upset, it's like us on a pedestal trying to tell everybody else, like, you should raise your kids like that. Like, no, it's not how this is not, and I think the way some people receive it, which is the people that got upset, it's like us on a pedestal trying to tell everybody else, like, you should raise your kids like that. Like, no, it's not how this is.

Starting point is 00:31:29 The way this is is this is us sharing with you the things that we're learning about and we're reading or we're watching, therefore we're sharing. But I could totally see how you would interpret that as us telling you, just like why I didn't share it with some of my friends, because I'm like, man, if I share this with them,

Starting point is 00:31:46 even though I thought it was a great episode and it gave me a lot of value, it's gonna come off as me telling you. Well, the couple people I sent it to, I thought. That's my thought. I knew wouldn't take it that way. There's a lot of people I didn't send it to. Okay.

Starting point is 00:31:58 Because that's more personal, right? Because I'm sending it to you. Right, but think about it, that's how the audience is probably receiving it. Maybe. Yeah, if you're their audience, and we're, I mean, we present our fitness, knowledge and information from that that place where we're coming from a place

Starting point is 00:32:12 of experience, science, knowledge, wisdom, and here we are in part with fitness and with business as well. Like there's a lot of times we're like super humbled because, ah, man, we should have started off like that. Why didn't we use that formula? Why didn't we use that formula? Why didn't we go in that direction? There's a lot of things to reflect on. So yeah, it's, it's, it's a tough one when it's like, it feels like, oh my God,

Starting point is 00:32:34 it's, you know, you're focusing on my, my deficits. Yeah. But I feel bad. First of all, being a parent today is so hard, but I'll speak specifically to moms. It's really hard because you're a stay at home mom, oh, you're wasting your talents. Why aren't you getting a job and contributing? Oh, you work, oh, you're not there for your kid.

Starting point is 00:32:51 You're not whatever. You criticize no matter what, or I should I say, you can look at yourself and feel inadequate. This happens to fathers too. It's very, very easy. And the world doesn't make raising your kid any easier because you're countering everything else the world is doing. You know, if you let the world raise your kids, now you're doing a bad job, but if you counter the

Starting point is 00:33:11 world, well now you're isolating your kid. There is no, I don't, nothing's ever gonna be perfect. So when you look at it, you take the information, okay, how can I apply this to myself? Are there things that can change? How can I make my situation, which is challenging, as good as possible? But I will say this, and Arthur Brooks shared this with us, if you're thinking about how you can become or be the best parent, you're better than, you're already 90% of the way there,

Starting point is 00:33:35 because you care. Because a lot of people don't even think. You have to rest on that fact. Yes, a lot of people don't even think about that kind of stuff. But when it comes to raising kids, it's tough because. I mean, I thought it was awesome. I loved it, it was thought it was awesome. I like being called out on stuff like that. Like I'll tell you something that really hit home for me, that I, you know, if I'm being honest with myself,

Starting point is 00:33:54 when I really think about those conversations that Katrina and I have had, are they really coming from a place, am I really trying to put myself in my child's situation and think about the landscape? Or am I actually thinking from a parent's perspective and what I want for my life or our life? And the truth is, you know what? It's selfishly motivated. As much as I think, although it's cloaked in I'm doing this for my son, it's like, wait a second, my son doesn't fucking know that. He doesn't know any of those things like that. And if he had to choose, you know, the vacations that we get to take and the things that I love to do

Starting point is 00:34:29 and stuff like that, or the bigger home, the more things, or just dad being around him more, what do I think, did I really think from that perspective when I had that conversation? No, being honest with myself, I could be better about that. I could have been better about that. I think Katrina and I thought about ourselves or our family unit, but from our perspective, not really trying to put ourselves in a two-year-old or a three-year-old's shoes and go like, you know, if they had a

Starting point is 00:34:53 voice, what would they say at this time? And to me, so I think that's really good and powerful. And hey, it fucking stings when you look back and you go like, yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But I think that's the reason why the audience gets so defensive sometimes is because it's like, it's as if we're sending it to them directly. That wasn't the intention. Of course not, of course not.

Starting point is 00:35:15 We have fucking millions of people. It feels that way though when it's being like, ah. You know, so it's not like we're picking on each individual. I mean, this is us sharing and learning as we go through this process. We have one of my favorite. The truth stinks sometimes, man. I mean, I am. It almost always stinks. I mean, is us sharing and learning as we go through this process. Maybe one of my favorite. The truth stinks sometimes, man.

Starting point is 00:35:26 I mean I am. It almost always stinks. I mean always, yeah. When does the truth not stink? Right, yeah, the most, right? Because it's like we wanna counter it, but you're like oh, but there's some truth there. One of the biggest lies that I'm really beginning

Starting point is 00:35:39 to understand fully around parenthood and marriage in particular, but parenthood specifically, is what the culture sells you, and I say culture, culture is largely driven by markets and media, because that's what makes money, so that's what you're going to see a lot of. And what the culture will tell you is you can have it all. So oh, you're going to get married, but you don't need to sacrifice any of your personal time and your needs, and it's a great time to, oh, you're going to have, but you don't need to sacrifice any of your personal time and your needs, and it's a great time to,

Starting point is 00:36:07 oh, you're gonna have kids, but you can still do it all. You can still have fun with your friends and go out all the time. You're not gonna lose any intimacy with your spouse. You're not gonna lose any, here's how you can lose nothing and gain everything. That is not how it works. When you get married, things change.

Starting point is 00:36:23 You throw some stuff away, but you gain new things. When you have children, you throw some things away, but you gain new things. You're not going to have it all, you know, fellas, you're not going to be able to go out with your buddies all the time and hang out now that you're married like you did before, even though the culture will tell you. Well, you're not going to be able to. This was so like counter-cultural. 100%. That's why it was like such like a left field experience.

Starting point is 00:36:43 Yes. Well, don't you, I remember people telling me like that what a mistake is is for you to Build your life around your child. I was told that that's a mistake. That's a mistake I'm what you what you should do is you bring that I mean Katrina I remember that conversation with Katrina and I and like we agreed like that's right, you know, we're gonna travel still And because you were told that that's a that's a mistake It's like you don't, you know, so many people, they completely change their lives because they have a kid

Starting point is 00:37:08 and they disappear and they don't do all these things. And it's like, that's right, we're not gonna lose that. It's like, no, maybe you do. I mean, or maybe you don't. But it's literally like, that's how society has spoken to us. And so yeah, you get someone like that who comes on and kind of just completely shatters that paradigm. Yeah, it's frustrating.

Starting point is 00:37:27 And then, you know, the people I think the ones that bother me the most are the ones that like, that still haven't figured out that we named Mind Pump, Mind Pump for a reason, and we didn't name it Barbell Fitness, you know, guys. You know what I'm saying? What's that pump? Stay in your lane fitness podcast. Fuck know, stay in your lane fitness podcast.

Starting point is 00:37:46 Fuck you, stay in your lane, like mind pump. It's about growing your mind, right? And there's a lot that's encompassed in that, a lot that's not related to just lifting dumbbells and barbells. And we intentionally did that because that was something that we selfishly wanted. We wanted to pursue something that was more interesting

Starting point is 00:38:03 than barbells and dumbbells. Yeah, we could talk about that all day long. That's our expertise. That's where we're going to go. That's right. So, I tell you what, when you hear us talk about that, you bet your ass I'm talking to you. I bet your ass I'm talking to you that I know better because I do and come at me for that stuff. But hey, when we're getting these other guests that are coming on that are our marriage and relationship stuff and raising kids and this is an economics, you argue with them. This is all of our, this is our, this is part of why we wanted to do this is so that we could bring these people on. And then, and this is us sharing it with you, our journey of going through that. It's not us telling you, uh,

Starting point is 00:38:42 this is how we think per se. Cause there's times there's guests come on too, by the way, that are talking to us doesn't necessarily I agree with a hundred percent of what they're saying but we're listening and we're trying to learn and be better ourselves so there was a reason why we call it mind pump yeah just I'm gonna switch gears here you I sent you some clips of the UFO disclosures that are coming did you Have you seen? So they just released the first authentic video of a UFO retrieval. Yeah, that was weird.

Starting point is 00:39:14 Where they actually got a, and they said, no this is a unidentified flying object that is not manmade. It looks like an egg. It's not a very compelling video to be honest with you. No, it's not. But it's authentic. And then there are interviews with these people who said that they interacted with it, and what's weird is they're all talking about how...

Starting point is 00:39:36 It's like a spiritual experience. Yes, dude. It was communicating with me, and I could communicate with it through our minds, and I felt this incredible spiritual presence and then we all got really sick. And I saw all this weird stuff that is starting to strengthen my theory that we're probably not dealing with aliens, it's demons. I think it's an inner dimension.

Starting point is 00:39:56 I do. You and Tucker Carlson are on that trip. Yeah, I do. He's all about that. But I'm like, what do you mean it talks with your mind and it makes you feel like this wonderful spiritual presence or whatever? That sounds weird.

Starting point is 00:40:07 It sounds weird, yeah. It sounds like magic. But apparently they're going to be releasing more and more of these disclosures. You think they're building up to something? We're about to see quite a weird shift. There's going to be a lot of things that I hope all these disclosures really do happen and we can gain a little bit of insight with a lot of the that I hope all these disclosures really do happen and we can, you know, gain a little bit of insight with a lot of the shenanigans going around.

Starting point is 00:40:29 But yeah, I guess that's what's funny though. I'm more interested in actually the fabric underlying our government of like all the bad actors that we're going to finally like get the real story of like... Apparently they're going to release it. Yes. I'm so not like... That's what I'm interested in. The UAP stuff is like ancillary. What a weird time though if they had released any of that UFO. I would have been so much more into that.

Starting point is 00:40:52 20 years ago when I made national news now it's like everybody knows who cares. Yeah. I just want vindication that you know this meddling you know can be out in the surface now. Speaking of like you know politics did you Trump I think did one of the most smart political moves And I don't necessarily agree with but did you see what he did with with tick-tock? What he's gonna tick-tock Do you let it back on? Well, that's yeah. Yeah, all of a sudden. It's like we don't have it Oh, we have it. They catch me up on this So the last we had discussed this just last week Supreme Court was about that it could get banned Right that it was gonna get banned, right? It was like there was a dead line is gonna get shut down

Starting point is 00:41:25 Yeah, and then I think that lasted for 24 hours, and then it's back on, what happened? Trump said he's going, he said he's gonna try and work out a deal, if it's 50% owned by the US government to be able to keep it, not US government, US companies, they'll be able to keep it on, I think. He also guaranteed companies who continued to host it

Starting point is 00:41:43 that they won't get sued. But now why is he doing this? Is it for the economy? Is it? No, I'll tell you why he's doing it. He just crushed Gen Z votes. That's it. And he even mentioned that. That helped, you know, elevate him in votes more so than most of the other platforms. You should see the TikTok, like all these TikTok influencers right afterwards. Trump's the best. I'm like, bro, this guy knows how to play politics so well. Getting that next generation already.

Starting point is 00:42:10 Oh man. 100% why he did it. Yeah, that's weird to me. That's 100%. And I don't understand how does a company get 50% control? So let's say- So they'd have to sell half of it to an American company. That's what they would have to do.

Starting point is 00:42:24 Oh, they would literally have to give up half of their company. That's never gonna happen. Yeah, I think that's what he said. They'd have to sell half of it to an American company. That's what they would have to do. Oh, they would literally have to give up half of their company. That's never gonna happen. Yeah, I think that's what he said. They'd have to sell it. I think they'd have to put it up for sale. I mean, imagine someone approached us that way. In order for Mind Pump to be played in China, we have to give up half of our company. We have to sell half of our company.

Starting point is 00:42:37 Yeah, you're not doing that. Well, I mean, we're not in the market. They might. I don't know. A lot of companies have sacrificed that, and then they end up, well, there's been a lot of takeovers of corporations in China back in the day, so yeah. You hear about all those?

Starting point is 00:42:52 No. Oh yeah, so there's been a few where the state, they finally, they brought people in. Oh yeah, I've heard this happen all the time. They take over the board. I thought they tried to do that with Tesla. Where they bring them in, and they pretend they're gonna be a part of it and then they basically

Starting point is 00:43:06 cut ties, they just take all their technology and they turn around and they literally flip it. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you know, that's the thing, it's like, I don't know. As the father of two teenage kids, I was happy they were gonna take them all off, man. Let's do this.

Starting point is 00:43:21 A little selfish, right? Yeah. Whatever. Yeah, it's an interesting move for sure though. I was kind of looking forward to a lot of the influencers crying about it for a while. Dude, some people, that was their entire businesses. And they were making a great living on TikTok and then suddenly gone.

Starting point is 00:43:38 When I heard that Rio, our Instagram had released all this stuff that was supposed to be identical to TikTok to pick up right, like literally the next day. That was my conspiracy, I'm like, oh yeah stuff that was supposed to be identical to TikTok to pick up right like literally the next day That was my conspiracy. I'm like, oh, yeah, that was in Zuckerberg's shifting gears all this stuff I'm like, that's a little suspect and then like but there's no tick-tock like where they all gonna go I'm like metas just gonna yeah so I wonder what happened love to be a fly on the wall and behind closed doors on all this stuff because it's interesting one that Instagram was ready to go.

Starting point is 00:44:05 So the day TikTok was shutting down, Instagram was releasing all these features that basically make it identical. Move everybody over. Yeah, to capture that. And then 24 hours after that, then it's released. That must have been the curve ball. That must have, like, I imagine,

Starting point is 00:44:20 because it makes sense that Instagram is like, oh wow, TikTok is getting shut down for sure. All hands on deck, let's do whatever we gotta do. Tech guys, and let's build the software or whatever the capabilities to capture all these TikTok kids now so they can still TikTok away on Instagram, right? Yeah, is that the word?

Starting point is 00:44:37 I don't even know. TikTok away! It's like, who's TikToking right now? It's like that Morbius movie, or it's Morbintan. So when you used to call our YouTubers, or whatever you say. No, who's TikToking right now? It's like that Morbius movie. It's Morbintime. It's like when you used to call our YouTubers or whatever you say. No, it's not that. What are you coming under?

Starting point is 00:44:49 Hey, what about Bitcoin and all the, all the, the blockchain's crushing. Where is Bit right now? Where is it at? Dude, one Bitcoin is, what is it worth right now? Is it over 60? Where is it at? No, it's over 100.

Starting point is 00:45:03 103,000 dollars. Whoa, really? Yeah, dude. Because they think that they're gonna make it like a legit thing. That they're gonna add regulation around it and make it like something that... So Bitcoin is taking off. We're gonna regret that one, huh? Well, at least you grabbed some. A little bit. Listen, I'm gonna tell you guys a story right now that hurts my heart when I tell it It's a true. This is a guys. This is a true story. Okay, it hurts my heart. I'm swear to God. This is true I had Martin, you know Martin when I you know my my client Martin Years ago. This was probably

Starting point is 00:45:37 This has to be 13 for 14 years ago My client Martin who's a hardcore libertarian might even know longer than that Doug, who's a hardcore libertarian, might even be longer than that Doug, he's a hardcore libertarian. The libertarians were free market people, right? They knew about blockchain and Bitcoin well before anybody else. And I'll never forget, he came to me, I was training him and we would talk about economics and he's the guy that showed me, introduced me to Milton Friedman and all that stuff. And this is kind of like my introduction to economics was through Martin, great guy, I love him.

Starting point is 00:46:08 He said, hey, there's this coin that came out, it's called blockchain technology, it's digital money. I remember him explaining it to me and I remember it just going right over my head. I'm like, what? I don't get it. What is it? How does it work? He goes, Sal, he goes, listen, trust me.

Starting point is 00:46:23 He goes, just buy a few of them. He's like, I'd like to pay for my next session in 50-bit coins. Yeah. I was like, I don't want 50-bit coins. Yeah, I fell off. In imaginary coins. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:46:33 He literally, I swear to God, this is what he said to me. Cause back then, to buy it, you had to buy a separate- Wallet. Wallet. Wallet, yeah. He goes, I'll help you set it up. This is a true story. Sal, I'll help you set it up. He couldn't true story. Sal, I'll help you set it up. He couldn't even buy real things.

Starting point is 00:46:45 He goes, buy a few of them. I think it would've cost me 100 bucks to buy like four or five of them back then or something like that, okay? Maybe even less. I think I would've bought like 10 or 50. It was a lot. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:46:56 And he goes, just buy some of them. Put like 500 bucks on it. Leave it. And I remember thinking like, sounds so weird, I didn't make any, nah, I'm cool. And we were gonna do it. I was gonna do it. So I could right now be worth like $50 million.

Starting point is 00:47:08 But I never did it. Probably more than that. Dang. So frustrating. Did you guys see that Netflix documentary on the couple? No. Oh God, Dylan, did you see it? You know what I'm talking about?

Starting point is 00:47:18 Oh man. Which couple? There's a couple that did this, that were stealing Bitcoin. And stole they stole you steal it So I don't know bro. Come on. Ask me if I asked me a question like that You'll be like this super hacker, you know, yeah, no, it's exactly what they are Yeah, they were they were they were hackers and they they hacked it and they hacked it early So they were like they were like that's my fear

Starting point is 00:47:40 They were skimming it early when like a half of one was gone And so this was like over the course of I don't't know how many years, but the reason why it blew up was because they couldn't get it out. So they could mine it and steal it. But it ended up being worth so much money that it would be, and you can trace it. So obvious. Yeah. So it'd be obvious where it was coming from. And it finally caught up to them. But it's highest ever. Yes. You guys have to go. Oh my god Yes, yes out here. Yes, you're too successful Yeah, you did too good a job guys haven't watched it You gotta watch this because it's entertaining as fuck because the two people that do it were part of why they also got caught up

Starting point is 00:48:16 Was because they were building Instagram personalities at the same time and they were weird and over the top and they're so it's a hilarious were weird and over the top. So it's a hilarious story. And even when the feds caught on to who they were, they didn't believe it was true because there was no way these two knuckleheads were sophisticated enough to have stolen this much bitcoin. It's hilarious, it's a great little series. Yeah, it's a shout out for the day.

Starting point is 00:48:39 You guys will like that one. What a terrible problem to run into. Hey, we stole billions of dollars too much. Too much. No way we can get it out. Yeah. So technically I'm a billionaire. Because that's what I get. Okay so that makes, so that is what makes it so difficult to completely steal is like hacking it's one thing but then to get it out. Impossible because they trace everything. Yes, and that much money would be easy. I mean, maybe you could sneak away a couple grand

Starting point is 00:49:08 worth of stuff, but not billions or hundreds of millions. And that's how they ended up, it was wild the way they figured it all out, it's really interesting. It's an interesting story. Is it true that John F. Kennedy, like one of the other reasons they speculated that he got assassinated was because he was creating an actual note that was removed from the Federal Reserve. US coin.

Starting point is 00:49:30 US coin. Why can't we do that? Let's get back to that and do something tangible and not just blockchain shit. Every time something happens in that direction, somebody gets assassinated. I know. That's what like, but now they're doing all these crazy changes, let's go. Yeah, well, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:49:48 Yeah, look, if you ever wanna learn about this, read the Jekyll, excuse me, the Creature from Jekyll Island, and the Fed, that's a book by Ron Paul, kind of break it down to you. It is crazy that we don't make our own money. We don't make our own money. It's not even part of this country.

Starting point is 00:50:03 No, the Federal Reserve World Bank System. That World Bank system. The Federal Reserve is not a federal agency. It's a gangster bank. It's like FedEx. It just has a name. It's a private bank. I'm always like baffled that more people don't know that. It's a private bank that we have said is the only bank that we could borrow official government, like official currency from. That's what we did. We took a bank. It would be like Mindpump becoming the official fitness program creator. For everybody. And nobody else could create it.

Starting point is 00:50:31 But in order to use it, the government has to borrow them and then we always get interest no matter what. Yeah, sweet heart deal, dude. What a deal. How'd they get that deal? It is a sweet heart deal. It's wild. You know, you were talking about partners earlier

Starting point is 00:50:43 and I meant to bring this up because, so Katrina manages the partners for us Right, so I I every once in a while I'll be sitting there and hearing emails and she'll be putting notes together for us when we have the ads and stuff like that And I overheard her talking about the organify had sent over that it's national green juice And I'm like a national green juice weekend. So I go go, that's bullshit. My birthday is Green Juice Day. So it's a real thing. I didn't want this.

Starting point is 00:51:09 I didn't take you there. So it's a real thing. I thought it was fake. I thought it was something that like Dave. How do you petition for a national? I don't know. I want a national. I gotta find that out, cause.

Starting point is 00:51:17 I don't know, but I actually was, I really thought that was something that I was like, oh that's brilliant. Come up with it like, we're gonna have a maps of National Day we're gonna bring up too and do a bunch of sales that day or whatever. But it's like, no, it's a real thing. By the. We're going to have a maps of national day we're going to bring up too and do a bunch of sales that day or whatever. But it's like, no, it's a real thing.

Starting point is 00:51:27 By the way, Doug, didn't you say it was Starbucks? Starbucks was involved with it in 2016. National Green Juice Day, yeah. Interesting. How interesting is that? Is there a national deadlift day or something like that? We can start that. There probably is.

Starting point is 00:51:39 I feel like there's days for almost it. I know there's a donut day. I know that. So I'm sure there's. We won't forget what you call Valentine's Day, don't say it. So the green juice from Organifi has ashwagandha, by the way, for people wondering why theirs is so popular.

Starting point is 00:51:53 Ashwagandha lowers cortisol, also helps with cravings. You guys know that? Yeah. Helps with cravings. I noticed that. So it could, it has great, it has beneficial effects for appetite control from a craving standpoint. Now is that because that's all, so we've talked about this before, you get a bad night of sleep.

Starting point is 00:52:10 Correct. Cortisol. Yes. You are right. And so it's the cortisol spike that is most likely responsible for those ravenous cravings that you have. Tamps that down a bit. And so taking that, interesting, you know, I don't know if I've ever intentionally Taking the green juice after a bad night of sleep to see if it would do that. Mm-hmm. That's actually would be a really cool

Starting point is 00:52:31 I love the audience. Okay, the next time you have a really bad night's sleep I hopefully the audience has figured this out because we've talked about it so many times right like I remember this was a big Unlocking my my habits around diet There's something to be said about just becoming aware of why you feel a certain way, how it becomes easier to resist that. Of course, especially when you know it's about to happen. Right. So when I know, like if I have a terrible night's sleep, right, like really bad, I know

Starting point is 00:52:58 right away that day I'm going to crave weird foods, foods that I don't normally eat that are just greasy, bad for me. And so because I know that, it's easier for me to resist that. Now in my 20s, I allowed it to steer me. It's like, oh, and just normal. But when you know it, I feel like that's a big deal. So hopefully the audience knows that

Starting point is 00:53:17 because we've talked about it. It'd be interesting for people that do know it and aware of it to intentionally try and use the green juice to try and mitigate that and See if they know it's a difference speaking of aware and this and that I saw you now. Are you? I'm gonna guess that you're trying to offset your Sex appeal to the so high Because today I saw you wearing

Starting point is 00:53:40 So you wearing crocs I'm like is that him getting too much flirting there's no proof what happened dude is Adam getting too much sporting? There's no proof. What happened, dude? And there were white Crocs. There's no proof. They were like little baby Crocs. There's no proof. So listen, this is kind of funny. You're our fashion guy.

Starting point is 00:53:52 So I'm fighting a cold right now from the weekend. And so I'm taking all the things, right? And this morning, and you know, the mornings are the worst when you're all dry. Yeah, yeah. So this morning I woke up and we're up a little bit early because it's the day Vicky cuts our hair so I'm up. I'm like you know the Katrina Max are still asleep.

Starting point is 00:54:12 I'm being quiet and put all my stuff on taking all the all the meds all the glutathione everything right. So I'm taking all my stuff and our house right now is I turn the heater off at night. So he drops all the way down like 60 degrees. So it's like freezing cold in the house. And it's kind of my routine. I get to get, I'm trying, and I think you're like this too, because you get up early, like, you know, I keep the lights dark.

Starting point is 00:54:32 I kind of do my thing, try to be as quiet as I can before I sneak out the house. So I first get out of the shower, the house is cold, cold. And so as soon as I get dressed, I slide my Crocs on. My Crocs are my house slippers, basically. And they keep my feet warm before I, and then my downstairs is where I keep all my J's and all my shoes. I have a separate closet for those,

Starting point is 00:54:52 and then that's right before I head out the door. So I'm cloudy and foggy, I'm doing all my thing, and I don't even realize I never changed my fucking shoes. I don't even know until I get out of the car here. I literally, I opened my door and I kicked my foot out and I looked down and I went. This must be a nightmare for you. Oh, it was an emergency.

Starting point is 00:55:13 Call Katrina, why she got down here. I said, you gotta get down here. This is like those bad dreams when you go to school naked. You're naked? This is like mine. So I call her and I go like. We're gonna find out. You'll never guess what I did. And she's just like, well, what'd you do? And I was like, honey, I call her and I go like, you'll never guess what I did.

Starting point is 00:55:25 And she's just like, what, what'd you do? And I was like, honey, I'm wearing my Crocs. And she's like, what? And I'm like, I never put my shoes on this morning. And she's like, Oh my gosh. She starts laughing. I said, you're coming down here, right? She's like, yeah, I'm going to be down a little bit. I said, I need you to get down here now. I said, give me the, bring me a pair of my J's something that has read in them. Just bring them down. I said, whatever, whatever pair, just anything else. But what I got on right now, I said, can't go on there and have my crocs. And

Starting point is 00:55:49 you sold me out. But such a, I mean, I didn't, I drove the whole way here. Never. That's how cloudy I was. So, you know, and then it wasn't until I got out. I looked up and I was like, I wish today was one of those days where we had like, like an important gesture or something. Oh, it would've been embarrassing. That would have been amazing That would have been embarrassed high-profile. I thought you did it on purpose. No, you always your this is a deal This is a deal I made even with my wife right cuz she hates them too and I remember if those that have been listening to podcast long enough I talked a lot of shit about Crocs back in the

Starting point is 00:56:20 days and then I I'll never forget my nephew had him up at the truckie house and I slid my feet in those little furry crocs and I went, Oh my God, this is just pure, but I vowed, I said this, listen, new balance coming in the house, walking around, I can wear them, but I'm not dressing them and going out in public and stuff like that. Like a, like a 16 year old, I'm not doing that. Dude, people are crossing the gym. Everywhere. Oh no.

Starting point is 00:56:48 Everywhere. Kids wear them all the time. That's why I refuse to wear them like that. Now did you put yours in sport mode or did you have the? No, they're all hurting. I've never worn them in sport mode because they're only slippers for me. They are literally, walk around the house,

Starting point is 00:57:00 the furthest I get outside is to take the trash cans out. Really cause the accessories you put in with the little butt charms. Yeah, little charms. You might have a couple of them. I'm going to start buying you some of those. I have a couple of mine at home. Yeah, because my son liked them.

Starting point is 00:57:12 So I have like a Lightning McQueen one or something. I got moccasins, so I can't really talk to you. Yeah, bro. You and your moccasins, bro. I mean, I got some. I definitely have some shoes that for a shoe person, I would be embarrassed that people knew I had them before around the house situation. My favorite shoes that I see anybody in here wear

Starting point is 00:57:30 is when Doug wears his expensive cowboy boots. His alligator skins? His gators? You got a different walk. Gator boots. He's got a little hip chip. Yeah, they're like, oh, Doug's trying to. Like almost like he's that holster in a gun.

Starting point is 00:57:42 Yeah, dude. He's flexing on us, for sure. I need to get some spurs to go. Yeah, he needs spurs. We got him. We got a walker on the block, you know, he's got his little boots on. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:57:52 I'm like, look at Doug, man. Look at him fly. Double holster. Boom, boom, boom. Oh, shit. Mass enzymes by bi-optimizers are digestive enzymes that will supercharge your protein digestion. In fact, some studies show that taking the digestive enzymes and mass enzymes will increase amino acid absorption by 1200%.

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Starting point is 00:58:50 You get continued education units from NASM. Check it out. Our first caller is Amelia from Michigan. Amelia. How you doing? How are you? Good morning. Hello, how are you guys?

Starting point is 00:59:01 Good. We're great. How can we help you? All right, well, I will read my question just so I don't get off topic. So I will just kick it off. As I mentioned, I've been working in the health and fitness space for a while. I started back in 2019 and I am currently an online coach working for another business and then an in-person health coach at a functional

Starting point is 00:59:25 medicine doctor's office. And I'm really comfortable as an online coach, but in my role as a functional medicine health coach, I'm working with patients, you know, up to 30 patients at a time throughout the week with nutrition and lifestyle. And about a third to half of these patients, especially since I submitted my question, are on GLP-1 peptides, so either semiglutide or trisepatide. And we do offer, you know, a host of other peptide therapies as well, but when I'm working with patients, I predominantly see GLP-1s and then BPC-157.

Starting point is 01:00:01 And a majority of the patients that do come to see me are also seeing me for weight loss in some capacity. I would say 90% of my patients are looking for weight loss whether they're on peptides or not. So it's really neat. I get to meet a lot of different people in a lot of different places but I only get to see these patients every four to eight weeks. Sometimes that's longer because there's no sessions that they're buying, they're just by appointment. And so some people I see twice a year. And that's obviously an adjustment to working with clients on a weekly basis, getting to chat with them

Starting point is 01:00:36 throughout the week, like as an online coach, or even when I was doing in-person personal training. And so in our appointments, we get 20 to 60 minutes to chat, we go through an in-person personal training. And so in our appointments, we get 20 to 60 minutes to chat. We go through an in-body, we'll go over nutrition, sleep, exercise, stress. But I wanna be able to offer them as much guidance and at like an optimal level, since I'm only seeing them once every few months

Starting point is 01:01:02 before I may get to see them again if they decide to come back. And so I usually give reference materials, podcast episodes, I'll make handouts, I have recommended books, I often recommend maps programs. And I'm just wondering, you know, how you guys might approach this kind of situation to optimize their progress when it's a lot more hands off?

Starting point is 01:01:23 This is a great question. Yeah, you would have been a great trainer to have been in our group that we just did. I mean, we had coaches and trainers that watched us coach GLP-1 patients every week. You know, that was, and there was a lot we learned with those patients. And I can imagine if I only got to see them once a month

Starting point is 01:01:43 or every other month, what a challenge that would be to keep them on target and pace. I know from our experience, the number one challenge and the hardest thing is them hitting their protein targets and doing that consistently. And the inevitable will happen, which is almost all if not all will end up having to reverse diet at some point and so that's probably the greatest challenge that we had was communicating that and I think it's if I had a fight could you imagine if we only had one time to talk to them for every every two months yeah I mean she's saying even less than that once every four months or twice a year you know I would

Starting point is 01:02:22 say Amelia you have to fight the temptation to want to give them all the information all at once because you're not going to see them again for a while. Yeah, that's a good point. Because that's probably, I know that's what I would be tempted to do. Like, okay, I'm not going to see you for a while. So here's a workout plan. Here's diet advice. Here's sleep advice.

Starting point is 01:02:39 Here's stress advice. Here's 10 podcasts. Here's all these references. Great point. And what ends up happening is they end up doing none of it Because it's too much all at once. So the best strategy in my opinion is To find what they'll do and focus just on that the less the better because you're meeting with them so Infrequent. I mean would you agree then that the point I was making about the protein would be like the main thing that you're probably

Starting point is 01:03:06 Hammering. Probably I mean depends on the person right, but I think what I would do, because again, ideal is not, I wouldn't go with what's ideal, I would go with what you believe they're going to do and adhere to. Okay, so it's going to be less than ideal advice because you only have 30 minutes or maybe an hour if you're lucky. So what I would do is I would say here's a good protein powder okay. Ideal would be whole natural foods but you're not going to be coaching them. If you coach them on a regular basis, it's totally different but you're gonna meet with them once. Here's a protein powder that I like. Can you tolerate dairy? Yes I can. No I can't. Okay get this protein powder. I want you to take it twice a day. So there's one very prescriptive. Take this twice a day.

Starting point is 01:03:43 They'll probably do it because it's very basic, very simple. Here are three exercises I want you to do every day. And I would show them, body weight squats, wall pushups, and some band rows. That's it. So the entire 30 minute period is going to be coaching them on technique of the exercise, protein intake, when to take it. And then, Hey, by the way, if you're finding it difficult to even drink this protein intake, when to take it, and then hey, by the way, if you're finding it difficult to even drink this protein shake because GLP-1s can be really, really powerful, you can also try amino acids, essential amino acids.

Starting point is 01:04:13 It's a lot thinner and easier to process. And then maybe creatine. And then when it comes to... And then here's some of the challenges you may encounter, and you bring up the challenge. If you encounter these challenges and come up with the most common ones here are some references and resources I think you can point to so here's a podcast about reverse dieting

Starting point is 01:04:31 here's a podcast about I think I'm getting weaker I don't have enough energy and that's it that's a sell that's a really good idea if she put together I don't know if you've already done this maybe you've already done this because you did say you reference a lot like I would have like a you know FA you know, like here's the top five challenges that people have this, this, this,

Starting point is 01:04:51 this happens to you. Go here. And if you are challenged with this, this, you need to listen to this episode of mind pump. If you're challenged with this and we've got, I mean, we've probably covered it. Uh, most of these points in, in a, in a topic, or at least if you go to askmindpump.com, you could probably get a more specific answer. But yeah, something like that where it's like, I'm picking in that one session, obviously the individual, they're going to vary, although I think the most common will be the protein thing, but they'll vary because they're going to be some people that we found that could hardly even work out at all.

Starting point is 01:05:22 And then others were like, man, they were training, they're wanting to do more because they had the energy. So knowing what you can prescribe, focusing on that one or two things, and then having a FAQ thing. Yeah. Well, in my opinion, the 30 to 60 minute session would start like this. Asking questions, get to know them, make the case for what you're about to recommend. Keep it simple.

Starting point is 01:05:44 So I need to kind of make the case. So, okay, well, here's what people're about to recommend, keep it simple. So I need to kind of make the case. So, okay, well, here's what people experience going on a GLP-1. The data shows people can often lose a lot of muscle. Now I want to let you know, GLP-1s don't cause muscle loss. Here's what's happening and why people lose muscle. So now I'm making the case and here's what happens when you lose muscle. Your metabolism can slow down, the low calories you're eating now stop working, stop losing body fat. So here, so this, now I'm painting the picture,

Starting point is 01:06:09 I'm making the case, now here's what you should do. Take this protein shake twice a day. Can you tolerate dairy? Yes, okay, here's the ones I recommend. Twice a day, every day, I want you to take this and then I'm going to show you two exercises or three exercises that I want you to practice. Try to do them at least a few days a week, but if you do them every day, that's great as well. Then the rest of the session is teaching them how to do those exercises and getting them comfortable to do them.

Starting point is 01:06:35 If they leave, think about it this way, if they leave that session with you and all they do is take a protein shake and do two or three exercises a day, it's a big win. Again, you don't get, again, you don't get to meet with them very often. Then if you meet with them again in four months, hey, how was that shake? How were those three exercises? Oh, I didn't do it, scale back.

Starting point is 01:06:54 Or, yeah, I did it, it was great. Cool, I'm gonna add one more thing to that. So it's just like coaching, the difference is you only get to meet with them once. And what you wanna fight is the urge to fire hose them with tons of information. Because what'll happen with that, guaranteed, is they'll do nothing.

Starting point is 01:07:10 They'll leave and do nothing. Or they'll try and do all of it and realize they can't stick to all of it and they give up on all of it versus hitting the one or two big rocks that is probably gonna make the biggest difference. Totally, 100%. Okay, now awesome. I definitely think that's a mistake I made

Starting point is 01:07:24 when I first started was let me give you everything until I see you next time and then I saw that that was not not productive. I mean it would be hard not to do that right because I get I mean I'd have the answers yeah because you know the answers you know where it's coming and you only get that one time with them so but yeah I like I like that I like the idea of one two big things but then you can have the FAQ you know if this go to here watch these resources you guys, do you guys not have like a, a forum or a community where these people can at least meet and talk like on online emails? So it's like a primary care office. Um, so yeah, they might, um, for different patients,

Starting point is 01:08:03 we have different levels of patients like concierge versus just our Primary care patients they might but I don't see as many of the like top tier patients I see more of the primary care who are now Would you be overstepping them by creating your own Facebook group or something that you like and it's more like a support So you're not committing to, I'm gonna coach everybody individually, but hey, here's a support community where all my GLP One clients that I've created on Facebook,

Starting point is 01:08:32 you could join and we can help each other out, and I'll dip in there and share articles. I mean, that would probably be really valuable in maybe not a huge, I mean, and a really good look on you for the company that you thought of something like that. Oh yeah, if I owned the clinic and you said that to me, I would be like, oh my God, that would be an incredible service to offer.

Starting point is 01:08:53 And then for you, you're probably gonna get clients out of that who eventually wanna work with you as well, which I'm sure isn't an issue as well, right? But I think that's a great idea, Adam. Yeah. Yeah, I can definitely bring up to the my supervisor and see how she feels about that for sure. Yeah, I would hope they would do that. I think you could really help a lot more just having a community. Yeah, the way I would bring

Starting point is 01:09:14 it up is I'd say, you know, it's really challenging because I don't get an opportunity to work with these people or communicate with them and answer questions. Would it be okay if I created a free forum? They have them, you know, we it be okay if I created a free forum? They have them, you can create one on Facebook, and then they just go in there, and then if they have a question, or I could post some information in there, just to help them stay consistent

Starting point is 01:09:35 or provide a way for them to get better resources, that would only help the clinic, because the more successful these clients are, the more successful the clinic is. We gotta get you an encore, Samilia. I know. I've been watching it. I am going to be bringing a tiny human into the world in April, so we have been really tight. Congratulations. Thank you. We've been really tight on things so that when I take maternity leave,

Starting point is 01:10:00 we don't have anything to worry about. Yeah, that's great. Congratulations. Yes, congrats. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Does that help you? Do you have any other questions? No, no, I think that's it.

Starting point is 01:10:10 I think I just, I'm sure you hear this a lot. Well, I know you hear it a lot because I hear it. I kind of knew what answers were going to be, but I do think an FAQ page would be super, super helpful. I think a group forum would be really good for our clinic. And then just piecing those pieces together and dialing it back a little bit, probably on my end would be super beneficial for our patients. Totally.

Starting point is 01:10:32 Awesome. Well, thank you. All right. Yeah. Thank you guys. Thank you. Yeah. You know, for anybody who's listening right now, as a coach or a trainer,

Starting point is 01:10:39 even somebody who wants to pursue fitness themselves, it doesn't, the information doesn't matter, regardless of how effective and accurate it is, if nobody applies it. There's no adherence. And so as a trainer or a coach or somebody who wants to pursue health and fitness for yourself, you always have to ask yourself, is this gonna happen?

Starting point is 01:10:58 Am I gonna be able to do this consistently? Or as a coach or trainer, are they all gonna do all this? Are they gonna be able to do this forever? If it's a no, then it's not only a waste of time, you're actually sending them back. So always, the number one consideration is what will actually be done. Let me start there.

Starting point is 01:11:12 I feel like I wouldn't even ask permission, I would just do this. I think it would just be- The forums? Yeah, just to be a good look. For the boss, too, find that out that you did that. Totally. Yeah, and come from a place of just some

Starting point is 01:11:22 building a community of support, I don't see how that would be a conflict. And it would be a shame if someone stopped her from doing that and the value that I think that community would get considering they don't get any contact with her but every other month. I mean, for sure. Agreed. Our next caller is Jeff from Connecticut.

Starting point is 01:11:41 What's up, Jeff? What's up, Jeff? How can we help you? What's happening? Hello. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question. You got it. So I keep hearing you guys talk about needing to hit protein every day because there's no reserve of it. It's got me wondering about the timing of consuming it throughout the day though. If there's no reserve it seems it'd be best to space it out into a lot of small meals throughout the day or to consume it surrounding activity. For example, I have two kids that are

Starting point is 01:12:09 competitive gymnasts and they have practices that are three and four hours long. I'm curious, it would be best to consume a lot of protein before or right after or just just looking for your opinions on the best way to time it. That is true. And that would be ideal, although nothing trumps the total, right? So if a client came to me and they were trying to time it optimally,

Starting point is 01:12:33 like you're asking right now, and I'd say yes, but then they go like, I just have such a hard time. I keep missing my approaching take. It's easier for me to get more in the morning or late at night. Then I would say, listen, hitting it total is far more important than the timing of it. But if I've got an athlete that's going to do whatever I tell them to do and they have

Starting point is 01:12:50 a three hour practice like that, absolutely loading it before and after would be an ideal situation. Yeah. I mean, there's two scenarios here, two ways to answer this. Number one, the number one thing to consider with protein throughout the day is digestion. The second thing to consider is you probably don't want to eat it in a way that interferes their sleep, like right before bed. Everything else starts to become splitting hairs, except for when you're talking about

Starting point is 01:13:14 high level athletes. When you're training for three to six hours at a time, you want to have some carbohydrates and some protein probably before, during, and after, just to continue fueling the body. Now most people don't work out for three to six hours. So you'll rarely ever hear us make a big deal about this. Like most people go to the gym and they'll work out for an hour, and it's like, okay, it's not that big of a deal.

Starting point is 01:13:35 You probably don't need carbohydrates and protein during your workout or before your workout or after. It doesn't make that big of a difference. But when you're talking about training for that long, it starts to make a difference with performance. It does. But if you're not doing that yourself, consider digestion. In other words, I'm hitting 200 grams of protein a day.

Starting point is 01:13:54 Should I eat eight in four meals or should I eat one meal? Well, probably four because 200 grams at once isn't gonna feel very good. And so it's really a digestion issue. It's like, what can my body break down and what's gonna cause me gastric distress or what's gonna feel good? That would be the top thing. Okay that makes sense. That makes sense and it gets difficult because they actually don't get home from practice until nine o'clock at night so they kind of they have to eat dinner after that

Starting point is 01:14:22 generally. Right and that's why I say number one is the hitting it, right? So that's like the top priority is whatever the number is, which I'm sure you've heard us talk about, their goal weight in grams or whatever, that's the main goal. Then comes timing, right? With an athlete like that.

Starting point is 01:14:37 It's like, I wanna make sure, I would never tell her when she gets back from practice and it's nine o'clock at night and she's under her protein intake, oh, just cause it's late at night, don't do it. Even though Sal brings up the point that it's not the most ideal time for digestion, but it's also she needs it. So it's like, I'm going to tell her to get it at that time. And you know, in a scenario like that, I would make sure that they ate something an hour

Starting point is 01:14:56 or two before. And then during training, I would have some kind of a liquid. Ready to drink protein shake. Yeah. So, you know, maybe some, like a protein shake that they could have halfway through. That's what I did with my kids. Same situation exactly with the gymnastics and that long. It is taxing and they do need that to

Starting point is 01:15:16 replenish that, you know, throughout the, in the middle of the practice. So, and they would eat late and, um, honestly, as long as they can digest it, it doesn't impede on their sleep. It's just something that they can kind of, they're pretty resilient with it. So.

Starting point is 01:15:30 Did you have ready to drink shakes? Is that what you did? We did shakes or we did like beef jerky and stuff like that just for snacks and nuts. Yeah. Yeah, but you can have some like carbohydrate in their drinks, little electrolytes just through the practice.

Starting point is 01:15:48 Um, and that would all work out great. And you base it off of how they feel. Um, some athletes consuming too much, uh, during training starts to take, take away from their performance. Other people need a little bit more. Um, so I would start low and then just take it from there.

Starting point is 01:16:04 Okay. Can I ask something a little bit more specific about it? Yeah. Okay, so if, let's just throw a nice round number out there. Say the number was 100 grams of protein they needed in a day. Is there a certain percentage of that

Starting point is 01:16:18 you would want to group around the practice or? I mean, you were starting to get into the hair splitting, you know, territory. If you're eating a hundred grams of protein in a day, I would make sure to have about 35 grams of protein for breakfast, maybe another 30 before practice and then after the other 30 or something like that, or 35. And then I try to load up a lot in the morning and the carbohydrates should probably be in there before the practice and after as Well, especially if you're going to bed

Starting point is 01:16:48 Because it can help with cortisol When you when you have some carbohydrates, so if you find that they have trouble sleeping after hard practice some some starchy carbohydrates With their with their dinner can probably help I'll tell you this though Jeff if you are getting your your kids to consistently hit their protein intake target at any time of day, you're winning compared to most people. For sure. It's really hard to get kids to be consistent with hitting their protein intake or to even care about it much less. And so as a dad, if you are accomplishing that already, you're definitely winning. You know Jeff, let me give you something easy. Are your kids okay with dairy?

Starting point is 01:17:26 Yes. Oh, milk. Bring some whole milk. Done. Here you go, drink. Yeah, so for my daughter, that's gonna work. My son doesn't like it, but he's okay with it, you know? Yeah, literally, like you bring a whole milk, the milk box, and hey, halfway through, drink this.

Starting point is 01:17:42 And literally, there's actual studies on this comparing milk to protein powders or drinks. And it does just as well. Well, because it's pretty much the same thing, just a little bit of boosted protein. You got some sugars in there, some fats, and great protein. There you go.

Starting point is 01:17:58 Okay, sounds good. You got it. Thank you. Thank you so much. Milk has got to be one of the most overlooked, you know, performance drinks. We've watered it down so much over the years. It's like, if you just get like whole milk,

Starting point is 01:18:14 it has all the nutrients. It's got everything. I don't know if you guys remember this. I think I mentioned it to you a couple years back. This was almost, I wanna say like four years ago, chocolate milk. I remember. Yeah, was reaching out to us because they were trying to make a big comeback in sports.

Starting point is 01:18:28 Yeah. Cause there was a study. Yeah. There was an actual study that compared chocolate milk to like expensive, where you know, proteins, performance drinks. And it was the same. Totally. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:18:38 I mean, I could get behind it. Totally. I think it's just, uh, I think dairy got such a bad rap that we started. Yeah. So we just started saying that it was not not it's not a great choice for that But it really is and really that's the only difference between chocolate milk and then a protein shake is the protein she's got an extra 1015 grams, you know Almost makes me angry this conversation though

Starting point is 01:18:57 Cuz I this is the kind of stuff all stress like on my kids and like all this and the buy-in is everything So if he's getting the buy-in from his kids, yeah, I don't think he realizes what a win that is. I mean, that's what I, that was my point. It was just like, dude, if you're a dad and you got your kids caring about trying to hit their protein intake, like all right, like yeah, win. And then we might play with, oh, let's try 25 today and let's do it. This, I mean, if they're bought in like that, then, then have some fun with it. Then mess with the different, cause the truth is it's your your we are splitting hairs at this point so long as they're hitting that and so then I go back to what kind of Sal said it becomes what convenient and digestion like what's easy for them what can they

Starting point is 01:19:34 do consistently what are they like I'm going to be playing with those things versus what do the studies say is the most optimal time for them this one increases month old proteins yeah it's like dude my kids my kids care element t we'd be doing all the things. Right. Our next caller is Tiffany from Canada. Hi, Tiffany. Hello, hello. How can we help you?

Starting point is 01:19:51 Hi everyone. Hi gentlemen. I've just begun taking a GLP-1. I'm 40 years old, 170 pounds. My maintenance calories are about 2,000. As part of my protocol, you know, I've been drinking two liters of water a day, walking. My maintenance calories are about 2000. As part of my protocol, you know, I've been drinking two liters of water a day, walking. I've been training with Maps 15 using light weights, hitting 140 grams of protein daily. And I really started the GLP one to just help curb my cravings a bit.

Starting point is 01:20:21 But I don't want to eat too low of calories, like where it makes me sick. I lose weight too quickly. It hinders my ability to maintain muscle. So my question is, how do I know if I'm eating too low of calories while on the GLP-1? So before going in the GLP-1, you calculated that your maintenance was at 2000? Yeah, that's what I was eating and my weight really didn't change based on my level of activity. Okay.

Starting point is 01:20:47 Now ideally, so I'm just going to be straight with you, I wouldn't cut your calories until reverse dieting you. Nonetheless, we're here, you're on the GLP-1, it's going to reduce your caloric intake. I wouldn't want you to go below 1500. I would want to continue to strength train, hit your protein targets. Once you plateau, you're going to want to fight the urge to go lower with your calories. So once the plateau hits, what I would try to do is reverse diet, get stronger, that's what you want to focus on, get your calories back up to 2,000 or a bit higher and then cut again.

Starting point is 01:21:20 I don't like seeing anybody below 1,500 calories. And on a GLP-1, it could be real easy to get below a thousand Oh, yeah Oh, yeah And that's when the muscle loss happens and what you don't want to do is plateau at a thousand calories a day Well, the truth is the truth is you're going to right so I'm with Sal like in this situation If you were my client the first thing we would have done would have been reversed diet first Before we did the glp-1 but since we're here, I mean, I'd put you down to 1500,

Starting point is 01:21:46 get a little bit of weight loss because you will get some from that. And then you're going to hit a plateau. And then when you do, we got to go back the other direction. And then I love Doug to give you our GLP one program, even though I think a Maps 15 is a great program and works for this, we have other things that we talk about in there,

Starting point is 01:22:02 like related to nutrition and diet and stuff, kind of like you're alluding to and asking so that if you are you know having challenges that you can refer to what we recommend inside there. How long have you been on the GLP-1? She just started right? I only just began so it's only been like a like maybe a month. And have you noticed any effects yet with the appetite? Yeah it it's definitely curbed it. So, there are some digestion issues and you don't feel hungry. That being said, I've still been able to hit

Starting point is 01:22:35 my protein targets. If I needed to eat 1,700, I could make it work. Do you know what you're eating now just on the GLP-1, what you're averaging? Yeah, I'm still tracking and it's been like about 1700. Okay. Um, cause I've been way too scared to go below cause I don't want to eat, like I don't want to lose the muscle that I've already built on my body.

Starting point is 01:22:57 And good job. Good girl. Good job. Yeah. Slow is better with this. Track your strength. Your strength is going to tell you a lot with weight loss and reduction in calories, a little bit of strength loss is often with this. Track your strength. Your strength is going to tell you a lot. With weight loss and a reduction in calories, a little bit of strength loss is often happens regardless. But if you start to notice like energy really dips, strength really go down,

Starting point is 01:23:14 then you know you're going a little too low. You're probably taking a multivitamin, right? Make sure you're not missing any essential nutrients. Creightine is a great supplement regardless, but I really like it for people on a GLP-1. You know make sure you're drinking enough water because with the reduced hunger signal what we're seeing now is actually a reduced signal for water as well and some of the lean mass loss might be just a little bit of water loss. Tiffany did you so that we've been on for 30 days and you've been down to 1700 have you seen the scale move at all? Or has it been maintaining the same?

Starting point is 01:23:47 Um, it was, it was very minimal, which I wasn't worried about yet. Cause I don't want to lose too quickly either. It was maybe like point, like a quarter of a pound, like a week or something. So there's no swoosh yet or anything. No, that's, I mean, it's actually considering where we're at calories and what you're doing, it's probably the best case scenario that you're going through now. Cause you're hitting, if you're hitting your protein intake and your strength training and you're a

Starting point is 01:24:09 little bit lower calories, the scale might not move very much. What might happen? Might be a slow, yeah, real, real slow. Because what might happen is you might have a nice little exchange every now and then you build a little bit of muscle because you're able to hit that protein intake. And then other times like you'll lean out a little bit. So, um, you're probably in the, in the best spot you can be right now.

Starting point is 01:24:25 The hardest part will probably be the psychological part of doing this for such a long period of time and maybe not seeing that drop that much. But if, if strength is holding, uh, or even potentially gaining, we've seen some clients that saw some of that. Uh, that's an awesome place where you're, how's your, how's your performance in the gym been during this process? Um, it's been steady. I mean, I purposely switched to like much

Starting point is 01:24:50 later weights so that I wasn't really like pushing myself at all. So it'll be interesting. Like I really appreciate the GOP one program and I'll see like, if I can like maintain that as well, I'm not sure what the training's entailed in that, but if it's similar to Maths 15 or.

Starting point is 01:25:08 Tiffany, I'll be straight with you. Of all the people we've had on here on GLP Ones, your approach is the most sound. Intuitively, yeah, you're really doing a good job. Best because I listen to you guys. Hey, so do they, but they don't really do. You actually listen to us. No, great job.

Starting point is 01:25:25 I mean, here's another strategy, Tiffany, is you could cycle your calories between 1200 up to 1800 on a weekly basis. In other words, some days, a couple 1200 calorie days. Oh, let me bring it back up to 1800 for a day or two. Now let me go down to 1500. You can cycle your calories and we don't have a ton of data to support this, but in our experience, that's tends to result in better results rather than a kind of a consistent

Starting point is 01:25:50 1500 or something. I mean, I would rather see that if it's possible, if those, cause those there's obviously I'm sure there's days where you're like, man, I don't really that hungry on those days when you're not feeling it. I would allow those to be a little bit lower. And then days when maybe the appetite kicks up or maybe you strained train or you had a little bit more activity, then feed it a little more. And more and I I would like that I would like to see kind of you undulating What might just happen is if you stay around 15 to 1700 you might see progress for a while

Starting point is 01:26:14 It might just be slow But you might not hit a pro a plateau for a while so long as your your strength training and sleep Are all in check and you're hitting the protein targets Okay, um, I like that approach, like the undulating throughout the week. Yeah. Like, cause there are, there are, I know Adam, you went on, there's some days where you're

Starting point is 01:26:31 like, oh, I could definitely hit like everything and there are other days where you're like, I'm not hungry. Yes. Like, um. Totally. But you know, you need to hit your protein. Um, I know you'd mentioned the reverse dieting

Starting point is 01:26:40 and, and, um,, I maybe would have done that first, but, um, is there an, uh, calorie number that, um, you would have, you would have felt more comfortable with me starting at before. Yeah. I would've liked you to be more like 25, 2600 before we came back down. Yeah. Okay. Cause I know in, in, um, a past episode, like when you were going through the jail with with the GLP one crew, coaching that there were some people you mentioned that you tried

Starting point is 01:27:09 to reverse diet, like while they were going through the process too, just cause they got too low. And I'm assuming maybe they plateaued. Yeah. Yeah. They plateaued. I mean, some, there was, there were some people that plateaued for six months at like a thousand

Starting point is 01:27:21 or 1200 calories. Um, yeah. So at some point, probably almost everybody in there was gonna have to reverse diet. That was the most compelling thing that we saw. Now the cool thing about using the GLP-1 while you do that is, I mean, and it sounds like it's affected you like this,

Starting point is 01:27:39 it definitely affected me this way, and I've seen this with most people, is the desire to eat you know, eat the foods that were, you know, more hedonistic or that you had attachments to wasn't there. Like I didn't have the craving for ice cream or can't know that stuff. And so when you do tend to reverse diet, the, you know, if, if you can stomach and eating the food, you don't really have the desire to binge or eat on the other ones that are, you know, you're going to put a bunch of extra calories.

Starting point is 01:28:03 So you know, the clients that we did reverse diet were, were successful doing it in that. Obviously we only had them for a short period of time. So it'd be neat to see where they're at six months from now, but it seemed that most people at one point would have to reverse a little bit because they would get to a point where they're down into the low thousands. And it's like in a, and at a plateau and the inevitable, they've got to go the other way. And is that like a month or a couple months? They usually reverse diet. It depends. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:28:30 It depends, but you could do it slow. You would add like 100 or 200 calories a week and see how you feel. Typically what happens is you don't see any changes except for more energy and strength. And you can slowly do that process. If you start to see the scale go up too quick or whatever, you just pause the reverse and focus on getting stronger. If you're getting

Starting point is 01:28:47 stronger in the gym that is one of the best signs of the reverse diet. Even maintaining right with that low calorie. If you're maintaining strength it's a really good sign. I mean when she reverses. Oh yeah. Tiffany are you in our private form yet? I'm not. I'll have Doug put you inside the private form so we have access to you. I super appreciate it. Yeah this is the first time I've called in it's amazing. I'm not I'll have I'm I've Doug put you inside the private form so we have access to super appreciate Yeah, this is the first time I've called in it's amazing. I'm so happy. I'm talking Yeah, no we're gonna send you the GLP one So you have access to that and then also the private forum and so as you go through this process

Starting point is 01:29:17 Just let us know keep in touch with us Maybe every 30 days or so give us an update on what you're noticing if you have any questions Reach out and hopefully we can give you some guidance as you go through this. Amazing. Thank you so much. Yeah. I'm so glad I talked to you at the beginning of this journey. So awesome. Great job. You're doing great, Tiffany. Thanks. Have a good day. You too. Bye. Yeah. Let that be a lesson. Anybody starting a GOP one? Uh,

Starting point is 01:29:39 it's first off rare that people have her approach, but it is, it is the right approach. If you do it right, you will not hit the inevitable pitfalls or challenges or plateaus that'll occur from a rapid cut in calories where, what you don't wanna do is, imagine this, imagine the scenario, I need to lose 60 pounds. I go into GLP-1, I start to lose weight.

Starting point is 01:30:01 Oh my God, I've lost 35 pounds and I have, you know, whatever left, 25 pounds left, and I'm plateauing and I'm only eating 1200 calories a day. What do I do, eat 1200 calories for the rest of my life? Stay on GLP-1 forever? Because there are other effects for meeting low calories. You don't just get less, you know, you don't just lose weight. You'll have less energy, you'll have less nutrients,

Starting point is 01:30:21 and you don't want to live on 1200 calories for the rest of your life. So it's not just about getting better results, It's also just you don't feel good. Our next caller is Ben from North Carolina How you doing man, so hey guys, how are you all doing today? How can we help you? Good. Um, so I will just get right into it. My questions a little complicated. So you're welcome I've got a little bit of a pelvic asymmetry that I've been trying to get to the bottom of. So I have what I was told is basically pelvic torsion. So basically on my pelvis,

Starting point is 01:30:51 my right ilium is a little bit flexed forward and my left one is a little bit posteriorly tilted the opposite direction. I know this because I had it measured by calipers that measured the degree of tilt from the ASIS to the PSIS. And then when I look at myself in the mirror, I can see that I have, when I put my fingers on the two bony parts,

Starting point is 01:31:13 they're in different spots. And so on my left side, where the pelvis goes backwards, there's a bit of a hip height. So my rib cage is closer to my pelvis on that side. And this also is evident in a little bit of a muscle imbalance that I've developed. So basically on the side where the pelvis goes forward, my right side, the quads and thighs

Starting point is 01:31:32 are a little bit more pronounced, whereas the glute on that side is a little bit more atrophied and weak, and the opposite is true on the other side. So the pelvis on the left side goes backwards, so I have a little bit more glute, but less thigh and quad on that side. And I've also noticed that like,

Starting point is 01:31:48 if I do like a single leg deadlift, the side on the left where there's a hip hike, I'm a little bit more imbalanced as opposed to on the right. So I ran to, I've tried a bunch of different things to try and correct this. I ran map symmetry all the way through recently, which as a bit of an aside was fucking awesome.

Starting point is 01:32:05 Um, it didn't, so it didn't really do anything for my pelvis, but it completely fixed the shoulder problem I was having. It was almost, it was, it was, I couldn't do any overhead press or benching and ran map symmetry and now the shoulder pain is almost completely gone. So props to y'all for that. Um, but I'm still dealing with this weird pelvic thing and what, and I've just recently started reintroducing barbell work back into my routine and everything's going okay so far, but I'm just kind of wondering like, should I be worried about this?

Starting point is 01:32:31 And if so, how do I address it? Did you play sports, martial arts? What did you do something? Oh, interesting. All right. What's your background by the way? Cause you seem to be knowledgeable on, on communicating anatomy. Are you a trainer or a coach?

Starting point is 01:32:43 I'm a, I'm a personal trainer and I was trained initially through the Czech Institute, so I'm about a level two. I haven't done much with them in a while. I've just been kind of learning on my own since then, but that was like kind of where I learned how to like even address these sorts of issues. And you're pretty sure that it's torsion, right? It's not like a lateral, you know,

Starting point is 01:33:02 flexion or extension issue, right? It's actual torsion. Yeah, yeah, because I mean, like, if I put my fingers on my ASISs and I look down, I can see that the right- One's forward and one's back. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 01:33:14 Now here's the challenge with something like that. It's such, it's so insidious, right? Unilateral work won't even work because you're gonna compensate one side with the other. Bilateral work won't work because it's already going to compensate on one side or the other. Bilateral work won't work because it's already compensated. You want to, okay, now I'm going to give you the obvious, look at the tight muscles, the psoas, the

Starting point is 01:33:33 internal external obliques are probably contributing. Maybe the QL is contributing, but this is a muscle recruitment pattern issue and you got to go way down to the root of what's going on. So, you know, pelvic work is, is where I'd focus like, you know, pelvic clocks, pelvic tilts, side bends. Um, but honestly, Ben, I think you need to work with someone who can watch you and do this correctional exercise with you.

Starting point is 01:34:00 Maybe even pelvic floor exercises, uh, might be something that you wanna look into because it's gonna be really hard to self-assess. It's gonna be really hard to- Not even just self-assess, it's like what I did with Kyle where it's like, I need another pair of eyes to look at the movement and tell me- That last little inch of range of motion.

Starting point is 01:34:19 Even though I knew the corrective stuff that I needed to be working on, I knew that I couldn't see it very well and he'd give me little details like oh no you need to drive the hip in more and then I would feel it. I'm like oh shit there it is. Here's the problem you're gonna do unilateral work and your forms gonna look good on both sides. You're gonna do bilateral work and unless you have a really good eye it's gonna be really hard to pick up unless somebody's kind of watching you. So

Starting point is 01:34:42 really I would boil it all the way back down to pelvic articulation, like just movements that move the pelvis, you know, anterior, posterior, lateral rotation, and try to articulate the pelvis in different ways and see if you can identify, you know, any discrepancies. But I really do think you're probably gonna wanna work with someone who understands, who can watch you

Starting point is 01:35:08 and identify, because once you identify and then you have someone kind of pointing things out, it could be corrected. Otherwise, all your workouts and stuff, it's just gonna strengthen. Do you think Dr. Brink could help him virtually? Yes. Potentially. Yeah, definitely. Especially because Ben. Ben, are you, because he knows, cause he's knowledgeable.

Starting point is 01:35:27 Cause he knows, right? Are you in our private forum, Ben? I'm not. I'm going to put you in the private forum. Uh, Doug will do that. Tag, tag Justin Brink. Yeah. Dr. Justin Brink is in there. Uh, if anybody could help you virtually, obviously getting someone like him in person would be great, but finding someone who is more knowledgeable than you are, who can watch and assess you and teach you through this process is going to be difficult. I know if there's anyone that can do it, it's him. And he may even be able to look at you while you do it on

Starting point is 01:35:56 a video and give you those cues on what he sees. And so tag him, reach out to him, and maybe you guys can connect. that would be my best advice Yeah, and the muscles to look at would be so as Internal external obliques, I would look at quadratus lumborum Iliacus I would look at all those muscles and see if you can articulate each of them on Either side and if you notice any differences in how they feel, it's really hard to see on yourself, but see if they feel different. You would also press on them with a little myofascial release, maybe a lacrosse ball and say, oh, that's tender, that's tight. I would also look at

Starting point is 01:36:34 piriformis. Basically everything that can stabilize or articulate the pelvis. But if I were in your shoes, as knowledgeable as you are, I would hire somebody and I'd say, okay. I would defer to Dr. Brink here. This is where I, this is above my pay grade as far as being able to even help myself. I'm going over to somebody who's got an eye for this to see me and then tell me what they see

Starting point is 01:36:56 that I don't even notice. Gotcha. Okay, cool. Yeah, that would be helpful because, you know, trying to find, I can't really afford a whole lot of like specialized physical therapists are trying to find people that are the, that take insurance that don't just do this by the book stuff has been cut. Like there's such a divide as to whether or not like it's even possible to have

Starting point is 01:37:15 like motion at the SI joint. Yeah. You know, like some therapists say like, that's not real. Don't worry about it. And then other people, you know, say like, Oh, you have to fix this or else you're going to die. No, don't brink is the best then other people say like, oh, you have to fix this or else you're gonna die. So, you know. No, brink is the best that we found. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're gonna need somebody like that for it to be worth your time.

Starting point is 01:37:32 So, and honestly, Brink might be able to help you with just some things in the forum. So, and you may not even have to invest in him and actually spend time. But if you were going to, that's the guy. At the very least, point in the right direction. Yeah, that's the guy that I'm going to to help me with something like this. Yeah, I mean mean I use plenty of his stuff from prime pro on my clients

Starting point is 01:37:48 So, you know, I'm already I'm already like on his team. That's good. Awesome. Awesome All right, so I more super quick question. Hopefully is that all right? Yeah Yeah, so hopefully less question to train question So basically as you guys probably know a lot, most of my clients that I see, I can only, are only really able to come in roughly about twice a week. Sometimes three times a week, but usually it's twice a week. And I want to be able to use Maps programs with them,

Starting point is 01:38:16 but almost all of the programs are three days a week. Do you have any quick tips on like ways to condense those into a two day a week format to try and fit these clients' schedules? I mean, with your experience, how long have you been training people? Like almost two years. Two years, okay, so you're relatively new,

Starting point is 01:38:30 but you sound quite intelligent. I would use them, the MAPS programs, as a scaffolding essentially, and then individualize the program yourself. But if I'm training someone once or twice a week, it's almost always full body each time. Well yeah, because I would say most of our programs programs are based full body so you could just drop a day You already have that

Starting point is 01:38:48 You could drop a day on a lot of them because they're full body like that or pick and choose like the exercise like, okay I really like day three. So I'm gonna drop day two this week and do it that way based off the client Yeah, I mean just two general ideas, right? One is kind of full body strength training The other is one day of strength training, full body, I'm doing maybe four exercises. Then the other day is correctional exercise where I'm focusing on movement pattern issues, correctional exercise, pain.

Starting point is 01:39:14 That was, generally speaking, what my clients did with me. You could also take Maps 15 and put them up together. That's right. So yeah, so Maps 15 That's so maps 15. You could stack the days together so that, because there's only two exercises each day. So you could take the format of maps 15 and go, oh, I want you to do all of Mondays and Tuesdays workout

Starting point is 01:39:36 today. And then on Thursday, when you come into the gym again, I want you to do the other two workouts and you can combine them like that. Okay. Got it. Just kind of figure out where the muscle groups are that are being worked by each workout and just kind of pick and choose the exercises. Well you could because the way we laid out Maths 15 it could literally be that simple you don't

Starting point is 01:39:53 even have to pick and choose you literally could just smash the two days together. So that's resistance would be a good program for him Doug why don't we send that to him that was a two day week routine that I set up for probably a majority of your clients. And Math resistance, that's kind of in between starter and anabolic. Exactly. Exactly, yeah. Correct.

Starting point is 01:40:09 That would be super helpful, thank you. You got it, man. Can't wait to hear, yeah, good luck, Ben. I'd like to hear back from you how it goes with Brink or Tagus. Tagus, yeah, when you tag Brink, tag us too. Cool, yeah, will do. Appreciate the advice, guys.

Starting point is 01:40:22 All right, man. Yeah, it's, you know, as a trainer, when I would get stuff like this, this is why I always tell trainers, you wanna have a network of people you can refer to because you will not have all the answers, but what you need are the people who have the answers that you can send your clients to.

Starting point is 01:40:39 In this scenario, like, well, it's such a hands-on thing, you need to visually see. Well, yeah, and the point you made, and not only that, but this is, I wouldn't be able to do this as well as Brian. No, I know better for sure. And not only that though, like even when you have the knowledge and you do know this is a point of like somebody's like I knew what to do with my rehab, but having

Starting point is 01:40:56 even Kyle watch me go through it and as I think I'm doing the movement perfect, he's looking at little details and I'm telling you, they're- Your body compensates unconsciously. Yes, and he would tell me a cue like, oh no, no, Adam, your hip's coming up. Like drop or put your right side in a little bit. And then I would do it a bit, oh whoa, I feel like it was that big of a difference.

Starting point is 01:41:15 Yet I'm going through it, I'm doing the right movements. I think I'm looking, I'm like, okay, I'm good. And you're experienced. Yeah, so I mean- Yeah, because there's a lot of kin stretches you could point them to, but if you're not gonna apply it with those Like very specific cues and get the maximal effort out of it Like it's not you're just barely scratching the surface. Well, especially with something like this. Yeah, that's very yeah

Starting point is 01:41:36 You know very it's so nuanced so many so many things that are incorporated in this So yeah, no, this is like above I tell you what though as a trainer is nothing more frustrating than like having the anatomy knowledge and not being able to solve like it's like, you can't unlock your problem. It drives me more crazy. It's like having a problem, knowing the problem and like not being able to fix it is like, I've had clients with pelvic torsion. I've had clients with pelvic floor muscle issues. Yeah. And it is frustrating to identify. And once you identify, it's hard to work on.

Starting point is 01:42:06 Oh my God. It's so hard. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at mind pump Justin. I'm at mind pumped to Stefano Adams at mind pump. Thank you for listening to mind pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted

Starting point is 01:42:23 RGB super bundle at mind pump media.com. and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs.

Starting point is 01:42:43 With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support

Starting point is 01:43:16 and until next time, this is Mind Pump. Who's ready to level up their mental fitness and win the seconds of the day? Well, at least that's my goal. Join me, Mark Champagne, on Behind a Human, a podcast where I dive into the stories and practices of extraordinary individuals. From billionaires to Olympians and cultural icons like Tony Hawk, each episode unveils the pathways in the mental fitness strategies that propel them to the top.

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