Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2536: Avoid These 3 Kinds of Fitness “Professionals” & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: February 19, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach three Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: The downfall of the fitness industry: DON’T listen to people who do these three things. (2:34) The #1 benefit of personal training. (23:19) Introducing MAPS Transformation. (27:27) Why is poor sleep so common? (32:39) The flaw in the recent Jeff Nippard strict vs. cheat curl study. (39:02) How some people value how they look more than the way they perform. (41:26) The recent cultural shift to patriotism. (46:30) Why pure CBD sucks. (52:08) #ListenerLive question #1 – How do I maximize muscle gain 11 months before my next competition? (56:36) #ListenerLive question #2 – Do you have any suggestions for people working through your MAPS programs who experience chronic pain? (1:11:41) #ListenerLive question #3 – How do I know if I'm training to failure or not? (1:19:17) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Eight Sleep for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump Listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP to get $350 off Pod 4 Ultra. Currently, it ships to the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Europe, and Australia. ** Visit NED for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off ** Train the Trainer Webinar Series February Promotion: MAPS Anabolic & No B.S. 6-Pack ** We are offering them both for the low price of $59.99, which is a savings of $114! ** Mind Pump #1622: Nine Signs Your Trainer Sucks Mind Pump #1717: Why Before & After Pictures Are Bullsh*t The Effectiveness of Personal Training on Changing Attitudes Towards Physical Activity Mind Pump # 2385: Five Reasons Why You Should Hire a Trainer Mind Pump Group Coaching Are Cheat Reps Actually Cheating? – BarBend Kat Williams Roast Video Visit Butcher Box for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer!  ** New users will receive their choice between chicken breast, ground beef, or top sirloin in every box for a year + use code MINDPUMP and get $20 off your first box. ** Online Personal Training Course | Mind Pump Fitness Coaching Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Kyle P (@mindpumpkyle) Instagram Jeff Nippard (@jeffnippard) Instagram Jon Fitch (@jonfitchsmash) Instagram GEORGIO POULLAS (@georgiopoullas) Instagram Mind Pump | Ann Svogun (@mindpumpann) Instagram Dr. John Delony (@johndelony) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Right in today's episode, we answered live callers' questions. People called in, we got to coach them on air, but was after our intro today's intro is 54 minutes long in the intro. We talked about fitness workouts diet studies It's a good time by the way if you want to be on an episode like this where we can help you out on air

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$59.99 for both, total. You get both for that. Just go to MAP just go to maps February comm if you want to sign up All right here comes a show This t-shirt time Shit, you know, it's my favorite time of the week two winners this week one for Apple podcast one for Facebook The Apple podcast winner is nickel D 1998 and for Facebook We have Gerald Whitaker. Both of you are winners. Send the name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com. Include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you. These people are the downfall of the fitness industry. Look,

don't listen to people who do these three things. Here's the first one. 30-day fitness challenges. If that's their one, 30 day fitness challenges. If that's their business, turn the other way, run. Oh, you're gonna ruffle some feathers with this one. I know. That happens a lot. This is like a staple way that a lot of courses that teach trainers how to build businesses,

this is like one way they teach them. It's to create these 30 day fitness challenges. But they don't teach people a successful method at all. one way they teach them. It's to create these 30-day fitness challenges, but they don't teach people a successful method at all. And it really does encourage this all-or-nothing, do it, stop type of deal. Really it's just a way to get leads from a lot of people who are through through hype. Capture that momentum. Yes. Yeah, I think you have sustainability in that message. I think you have to share with the audience. This is a good conversation conversation also a bit nuanced and gonna piss some people off because we have a lot of trainers that

Follow the show and I know a lot of trainers that mean well But also have been sucked into this trap of thinking that this is a good strategy and To your point. There's a lot a of, you know, fitness marketers that sell to these trainers the, to do these challenges. Now, what is it? Um, from a marketing perspective, why is it so successful for people? Because this is why trainers do it. They do it because not because it's successful,

because the client gets results success, but because people buy. People are more likely to buy. And there's some of the obvious reasons. Like obviously selling somebody 30 day transformations versus, hey, this could take you two years. Right, that's odd. But there's more than that.

There has to be a reason why it works so well for selling people on getting in shape that you have just a cult of trainers that are using this tactic to get clients. Yeah, you're capturing a vulnerable period. It's human psychology, and you're capturing people in a vulnerable position, right? So when people decide, when they first decide,

I'm gonna change everything. I'm gonna change my diet, I'm gonna change my lifestyle in terms of exercise, I'm gonna do all these things. It's typically from a place of either disgust or they're fed up, you know? Happens often after the holidays, right? New Year's resolutions are big on this. And so people are like, they're just fed up

with how they feel, how they look mostly. It's usually how they look. And so they're looking for a way to make a big change. It's really, by the way, the data on this is like data on marathons for people getting in shape. People will sign up for a marathon or a race as a way to get in shape. You look at the success rate of these individuals

in terms of are they able to stay in shape, do they maintain it? It's terrible, it's actually terrible. It's just as bad as people starting a radical new diet. And the reason why this is the downfall of the fitness industry is because trainers and coaches who are supposed to be the people that communicate this properly, right, they're supposed to be the evangelists

of fitness in the proper way, teaching in the right way. What they're doing is they're encouraging this mentality that is a failing mentality. And for the person on the other end of it, I look in the mirror, I see a picture of myself, I feel gross, I don't like myself. And this is the same, look, we used to get this all the time in the gyms, people come in and they're like,

I'm ready to work out five days a week. I was like, well, how long have you been working out? Oh, I haven't worked out in 10 years. Okay, let's not out five days a week. I say, well, how long have you been working out? Oh, I haven't worked out in 10 years. Okay, let's not start five days a week because it's too big of a jump. You're gonna set yourself up for failure. It's not only that, it's not necessary, so I can get you there any faster.

But when you're in that state of motivation, especially negative motivation, which is very acute, very powerful initially, your self-belief is a bit distorted. So I'm gonna do five days a week. I'm serious about it this time. And so you're feeding into it with these 30 day fitness set challenges.

And what you're doing is you're casting a net that captures this vulnerable place that people are in. And so that's why they exist. It's cause they work in terms of sales, in terms of leads, but they continue to promote the wrong message and it's part of the problem. This is why one reason, there's many reasons, why the fitness industry has not solved

the poor health epidemic. And the reason why this is so frustrating is because the answers to the problem of poor health lie in the fitness industry. We actually have the answers. No other industry has the answers. The medical industry doesn't. The food industry doesn't. Nobody has this but the fitness and health industry and yet here we are promoting the wrong thing by capturing people in these vulnerable places and telling them make this radical transformation

your life in 30 days and they typically come with fast from this, abstain from that, do this, you know, this many steps every day and you're gonna get this much sleep every night and it's like 15, a list of 15 things and when you're in that state of hyper negative motivation, you know, I can do 30 days, let's do this, but it fails. Do you think that's the other reason why too

is cause you know, there's like, what's that saying, like I can do anything for 30 days? Totally. Like because it's not a major commitment, there's more likely that people will adhere to that. If you said something like 90 days or six months, that's like, oh my God, that's a long time. I don't know if I'm ready to commit to that. But if you go, you just got to do it for 30 days, I'm like, okay, I could do that. Which by the way, the fail rate within that 30 days is actually

high too. It's also high. But it's got actually. But it's gotta be better than six months, right? Of course, but the perception of I can do that as high because it's only 30 days, it seems like such a short time. There's also a percentage of people that recognize this is a marketing strategy, recognize this is not ideal for them, recognize they need to be doing this for much longer than just 30 days, but they actually use it as a justification

to kickstart them. That's what they think. Yes. They think I'll do this and I'll figure it out after. Yes. Oh, once I get there, then I'll figure it out. It doesn't work that way, it never works that way, and what we should have are professionals explaining that.

Well, I'd love the statistics on after they go through 30 days of how many people kept going for a year. And then you could find out, oh, if that really was a Kickstarter, if that really did kind of help promote that. It's the same fail rate. It might be higher. I think, Justin, I think that's a great question.

And I would be curious to. And let me tell you why. So if I'm a trainer and I'm selling these 30 day challenges, it's in my best interest that I show as much change as I can to the client, physically, right? Like lose as much weight. Most of them. So you gotta hook them while they're here.

Right, so most of it is weight loss stuff. Now what we know is what, 90% or more? We'd say, I say everybody now, probably early in my career when I was figuring this out, a large portion of my people that needed to lose weight, I reverse diet at first. And if I do that, the reverse diet process is at least a month or two. You're not losing any weight. You're not losing any weight. So if I did a 30 day challenge, weight loss challenge, and you sign up for me, I know you're not going to lose any weight in the first 30 days.

And so I'd be sitting up. So what I'm forced to do if I'm pitching these people on a 30-day weight loss challenge, and I have to show them results in 30 days, then I'm forced to, regardless of where metabolically they are, is to cut calories, increase activity as much as I can because in that short period of time, I can show some weight loss. Problem is, when they get to the end of the 30 days, that person that I just did that to that was only eating

say 13 to 1500 calories. Now eating 900 calories and sure I got the 8 pounds of their 30 pounds off in the first month, but now they still got 22 more pounds to go and they're only eating 900 calories and so they're destined to fail and go back to the other direction. Yeah, my problem has always been the rebound effect and it's like where do they go from there? And you know, somebody that has a negative experience when they're that hyper like motivated to address these issues and then you know, after they get through that and they feel

great and then now they fail again, it's like that kind of period, it creates this disdain for the process, this disdain for fitness in general. And then we're like, we have to convince them that no, there is a different way to do this that's sustainable. Yeah, so what's interesting about this and why it works so well in marketing is there's a couple reasons.

One, we said already, right, you're this hyper state of negatively fueled motivation. Two, when people do this, they typically bring someone with them, hey John, do this 30 day challenge with me. So you end up getting more leads as a result. And three, when you ask somebody, hey, did that 30 day transformation that you did work,

if they did anything within that 30 days that was results, that gave them positive results, they'll say yes, even though they gained the weight back in other words Susan does a 30 day challenge loses 10 pounds six months later she gains it all back and then some her friend says did that 30 day challenge work oh yeah I did I lost 10 pounds not realizing actually it failed you gain the weight pack and then some success is not measured by what you had in 30 days. Success is measured by, are you still doing it? Is this something, this was a very pivotal moment for me

in my career, and I know you say this too, Adam and Justin, in my career as a trainer, where I, I don't know how many years in, it was a long time in, my career, where I looked at my clients and I said, I'm failing. Like the minute they stop with me, they go back, so yeah, they lose weight minute they stop with me. They go back. So yeah, they lose weight when they're with me

and when we do it, but then they gain it back. I'm actually not helping anybody else really out. I need to kind of figure this out. So, and by the way, the coaches that do this, the people that I'm talking about, this is what it looks like. You go on their social media and this is what they do. This is their business.

By the way, for trainers who are listening, who are like, oh, it's good marketing, they're saying it makes money. It's a trap because you start this, you do make some money, you have to always do this. You're doing 30 day challenges forever. And it just goes down and down and down and down. Yeah, unless you have this massive reach

where you keep reaching millions of people, eventually this turns into negative business and you find yourself scraping the barrel for more and more people who are willing to sign up for your 30 day challenges. Next up, this one is gonna ruffle some feathers for sure, is people who use before and afters or body transformations as their primary source

of authenticity or proof or evidence. Here's all the before and afters of all the people that I've worked with primary source of authenticity or proof or evidence. Here's all the before and afters of all the people that I've worked with, and it's all just the picture of their bodies. And this means that I really do a great job. That does not show that they did a great job. It also does something that we all strongly believe

to be a problem with the fitness industry, which is we take all of the incredible benefits that you get from leading a healthy and fit lifestyle and we narrow it down to how you look. It's just about how you look, here's your evidence, there's really nothing else, and the problem with that is that's fleeting and it does not result in a lifelong sustainable relationship with fitness,

and it can lead to body obsession or body worship. It's all about how I look. By the way, this is a problem within the fitness industry where it's all about how people look, sacrificing health, sacrificing family, sacrificing all the other metrics, and this, even if you do get the look that you're looking for, eventually it'll wear out

because where do you go from there? Yeah, this is a tough one. I know we chose to go this way, right? We made a point early on and a stand with our marketing team that we were not going to use this as a strategy to generate leads and sell programs early on, And we've stuck to that. And I feel for the trainers that are trying

to build their business because this is, this is everybody's, Sal. I mean, you're literally, I mean, now you're, the first one you pissed off half the trainers. Now you literally just pissed off everybody because everybody who's ever had their website built for them as a personal trainer, one of the first things that every marketing team

will ask for is social proof, proof that you've been able to transform these people and they're using the imagery on it. And it is for sure a surefire way to get traffic and get leads. And so there's a part of me that it's like, I know why we didn't do it. I mean, we agree because we're trying to shift culture.

We're trying to shift the space, but it's not there yet. And so I always think back, like, you know, if I didn't have you guys and we weren't building this together, like, man, how would I go about doing that? Like, could I move, could I move the industry by myself? You know, could I survive? Could I survive building it without using these online? I didn't have an online business before really Mind Pump.

I mean, I was always an in-person referral, word of mouth type of trainer. I got into the online game late and I think, God, if I was building that now, would I be able to do it without using those pictures? So here's the two ways I'll help with that, because I get it, I get it. If you look at marketing and fitness,

nothing sells faster and easier than showing a before and after. Period, end of story, that's a fact. Not gonna say it's not effective, it is very effective. But we've built a business, an eight figure business, never using a before and after. When we were trainers, we knew trainers who walked around with a binder

of before and afters of the client and used it to sell training. Did you guys use binders of before and afters? Of course. So my point. I did, yeah, I had on my website, it was like massively effective. I don't wanna be a hypocrite here,

but at the same time, that's why that was an intentional focus for us. It's like, can we prove that you can do this differently? And to Adam's point, it's a big ship to steer. It's a big thing to ask this industry to focus on. I do think it's important because of all the shenanigans. And you've seen, even with supplement companies, how they've manipulated this.

And you know the tricks. And you know there, even with supplement companies, how they've manipulated this. And you know the tricks. And you know there's a lot of Tom Fulary out there that uses this as a way to manipulate people and their emotions. And it's tough because you have only this selective amount of time to capture somebody's attention. And so how do you capture their attention

to get them to be hooked, to then also listening to your actual message? That's a tough. I think there's a way to do it. There is, I know. Of course there is, we've proven like you said, like your point. No, I mean, I think you can even use

before and after pictures in a way. I think even video testimonials are better. Yeah, and also tell the whole story. Like tell the whole story, not just what the body looks like before and after. Because you know what it does, first off it sets up people for failure. Well I did six months and I don't look that,

and then they ignore the fact that they feel better, they sleep better, they have better mobility, they're stronger, they're not even paying attention to those things. It sets up false expectations. Again, it's not telling the whole story and it continues to promote the wrong message and I would say, by the way,

you brought up a great point, Justin, supplement companies and diets and fitness programs that are all garbage use before and afters. And a lot of those before and afters are doctored or the pictures are reversed. A lot of people don't know this. A lot of times, supplement companies will go to somebody who's shredded and say, gain 30 pounds of body fat

and we'll pay you, they'll take a picture, make that the before and the after is the picture that they took of them when they were lean. That's like, by the way, they do that all the time. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think the way I would have probably approached it by myself would have been the, I probably would have used things like that to get the attention of people and then, because here's the, this is the argument I would make if I was this trainer, right? And again, I just wanna play devil's advocate

with you on this. It's just, I think that if I, I'm gonna go, man, it's, that's what people want. It's my job to then teach them how to attach fitness to all these other things, right? But if I'm being honest, I know what got me in the door. I know what got me into working out.

It was my issues with body image, right? How I looked, insecurities. And so if that's what got me to walk in the door, then, and then now over time, I learned a lot. And so, and the same thing goes for a client. The client comes in and they're coming in with body image issues. And so if I don't get their attention with that,

like could I get them? It would be really difficult to do. I know we've done it here. I know we've done it here. But we also have created this massive thing, right, that we have that where we can talk for an hour and a half, two hours. And when you are building a business online,

you don't necessarily have that. And so this is a harder one. That's why I put uses body transformations as the primary source of authenticity. I don't think using before and afters is bad. I think if that's your business, that's your primary source of showing authenticity, then you probably have somebody that is a red flag. Well, I mean, I think-

Well, and the description of how they got there, you know, that's all like highlighted, like we went through these periods of reverse dieting, like the whole story's attached. Like are they teaching, are they coaching? I think what, the two that you started off with, attached together are what's really dangerous, or what's a good red flag for people.

Because, for example, there are definitely lots of social media pages that are nothing but transformation photos. And then they're selling a challenge. Yes. They tend to go together. Yeah. The two of those paired together is a red flag for the consumer of, oh, I'm not going to bite into this. This is just purely a marketing ploy to get my money to do this challenge that's setting me up for failure the trainer who is got a you know Instagram full of incredible good knowledge and information and communicating all the things that we talk about on the show and and then you know

They have a client highlight every say, you know once a month of you know, Susie Who's done this different, you know and a story about her and her where she heard before and after was you know, once a month of, you know, Susie who's done this, you know, and a story about her and where she heard before and after was, you know, I understand. I get it and I know the value and the power of it. And I feel like you're also communicating so much good message. And then that person I get, you use something like that

to get the attention of Suzy's friends or someone else who looks at Suzy goes oh my god she has the same body as I do I could do that and then hits me up and goes oh my god I saw your transformation of Suzy can you help me and then I have the chance to sit down and talk to you well let me tell you about Suzy like Suzy didn't just get there in 30 days you know we had a reverse dieter and we had to do these things. And it's like, so. Very well said. Right, so like that, I mean, I'm all for that.

No, you painted a picture very well, because you'll see these pages, and it's almost 80, 90% before and afters, and 38 day challenges, and before and afters. And it's products that are being sold primarily by before and afters, before and afters, before and afters. Which,, which by the way is less these days because I think the consumer, it was by the way in the 90s, oh my god that's all they used. Yeah, that was the only form of marketing. It got so crazy that they started making memes about it. Like there's that one famous meme where

there's like this overweight white dude and there's a shredded black dude. Just to show like, that's my favorite. Just to show how mean, you know. 30 days? Speaking of that, can you make a note? OK, can you make a note? I would love to do a maps ad like that. Fake one? Yes, like a fat white dude, and he's like shredded black guy afterwards. Like, use maps aesthetic.

Yeah, like a chick. Can we do that? Can we? Dylan, make sure you make a note for that. Just make it look ridiculous. I would love Danny. Danny would be great for that project, to do a maps aesthetic before and after,

and it'd be like a fat white guy to like a shredded black dude afterwards. Or like Mr. Olympia or something like that. Totally. It became a meme. Next up is people who, I mean, the vast majority of their media and marketing and examples of social proof are pictures of themselves

and they're in half naked bodies. This one I think most people get, right? It's like, I'm a coach and you go on the social media, it's all pictures of them flexing and naked or half naked, shirtless or whatever. I mean, this might be worse than the transformation one. Oh, it is. And the reason why is because at least

the transformation one is changing. It's showing focus on the clients. It's getting some people results. There's trainers online that are just like, all they can do is get themselves shredded. They haven't helped nobody. They're selling a lot of shit. And it's all half naked photos of themselves. So you don't know 100%.

Totally. Speaking of which, I pulled up a personal training study, which was really interesting. Okay, let me ask you guys this. Of all of the values that coaching or personal training can provide someone, all the benefits, what would you guys say is, I mean they're all good, but what's the top, the top most important benefit, would you say? The accountability and consistency piece.

Totally, totally. Because if you look at the data, the biggest challenge with weight loss or improved fitness or improved health, just being consistent, is that they stop at some point. Well you haven't said it in a long time. I used to love it because I used to repeat it all the time. That a subpar program done consistently is better than the best program in the world done inconsistently. Totally. Just like a perfect diet done inconsistently is worse than a sub-perfect diet that's done consistently. Consistency is paramount. Now all the other stuff's important too, so I don't want to downplay it, but I pulled up a personal training study. I'll read you,

because I'm like, do they have studies on like the success of coaching and personal training? And they actually, they actually do have a study and they actually measured it. So, so check this out. They did, this was over, this was over a hundred clients and of all the clients, 61 out of the hundred, over a hundred moved up a stage in terms of fitness and consistency and whatever.

13 clients moved up considerably, two stages. 27 of the clients stayed the same in terms of consistency. Out of 102 clients, only one reduced their consistency, only one, over this entire period of time. Compared to the placebo, which was the opposite, vast majority of people would fall down or lose consistency. Now, what's the psychology behind that? What's your theory on why? You think it's because there's that accountability piece

that I have this coach I need to show up for? Do you think it's also part of just they've helped create the habit, now it's becoming a habit, or is it a combination? I think yes all of that. I think it's having someone there to coach you through the challenges especially if they do a good job they can forecast hey it's gonna get tough. Because I've paid for that. I don't know if you guys have done this before. I've paid for things that I know I can do on my own but because I know that I'm

forking the money out and then I've gotta show up to the thing or whatever, and that's kinda what it is. It's like, I've had people, why don't you just, why do you need to pay for that? It's like, well, because I know if I pay for it. You're committed to that. Yeah, I'm committed to it, then I'll be consistent with it. If I'm not financially committed to it,

then I'll have an excuse for why I'm too busy or whatever. There's also, because they also put in their coaching with a group, there's also the social component of working with other people and we're all kind of moving towards this goal. If you look at like the gym industry in particular, we'll say fitness industry at large, there's really, over the last, I would say, 30 years,

there's only really been one significant change or one significant impact from something that came in and radically, really they radically shifted the way that people work out and the perception of gyms and what works and what doesn't work. And that was CrossFit. CrossFit made long lasting impacts in fitness, okay? They brought squats back, they brought dead lifts back,

they brought Olympic lifts back. They did that single-handedly, even though bodybuilders and gyms have been trying for years, they did that single-handedly. Now it wasn't because CrossFit is like a miraculously incredible workout program, it's terrible. It's got a terrible workout program for the most part. It's because, and their gyms aren't better,

they're all garages or basements or whatever, it was the social component. It was people showing up and doing it together. That is 100% why CrossFit had this really powerful impact. And this study shows that, working with people, being in a group, coaching, it's the single best investment you can make if you're trying to become fit and stay fit, period.

I'm sorry. Speaking of that, I'm so pumped about this. It's going to be, this is new, right? Something that we haven't really done. We did a taste of it, I would say, with the GLP One group that we did. Yeah. And this is Kyle and the coaches, our team over here.

We don't talk a lot about the trainer side. We're slowly building that kind of behind the scenes. We're obviously starting to talk about it more now as we're building trainers underneath us. And so it's funny, we're talking about this whole thing with coaches and trainers online simultaneously why we're gonna have a solution to a lot of this stuff. And one of the things that we're going to do, and I hope Doug doesn't get mad at

me. I know he gets mad at me when I let the cat out of the bag on programs. He's already making a face. Yeah, and he's already getting ready to grab the mic. So normally our marketing team gets so weird about when we have a program that's coming and like, don't talk about it till we're almost there. Well, I'm going to ruin that. So the next program that's coming up is a maps transformation.

And it's really the motivation came from my transformation that I did of the comeback. And I'm not going to spoil all of what's in there and all the stuff that it comes with, but it's, I mean, I'm excited about the program. I know the guys are excited about the program, but what we're doing different that we haven't done before is when this program launches what we're doing different that we haven't done before is when this

program launches we're actually going to take a small group through the program and so it's a transformation program so anybody that's looking to get back into shape or just transform their body you can join the group. There'll be coaching along through it. Very similar to what we did with the GLP-1. It's gonna be headed up though by Kyle and our trainers and that team although the boys and I will be obviously a part of it. We're gonna be in there. A part of it but that is what we're going to be doing. You'll obviously get the program with it and everything. Yeah we're offering group coaching now which we tested it and we had such good

success. We all loved it and so now we're doing it. So we're gonna have a small group, it's limited, because we wanna maintain quality. But you're gonna get a new group, it's virtual, and it's gonna be headed by trainers that we hired, people that we vouched for, and then we're gonna pop in and out and help along the process. So it's not just the program, it's like coaching.

You have a question, you can ask it. How does this work, how do I do that? Here's what's happening with my calories, here's what's happening with my workout, my shoulder hurts, whatever. And we're gonna have trainers and coaches coach you. Coach you. And so it's me.

Yeah, if you're listening, I mean you can talk to anybody that went through the GLP one. We had massive success with it. It was an incredible experience, not just for us, learning what it was like to work with people at GLP ones, but also how well could we manage 50, 60 people in a group setting like that with the weekly calls and everything.

And I think that we were very, very happy. So we're all the people that went through it. And so I think it's gonna be something that we try to do on a semi-regular basis. Made a lot of sense with the new program that's coming out with the transformation programs. And so a lot of people. I think it's cool. We're just creating these communities so that that way, again, to our

earlier point, we're giving them access to accountability amongst their peers and also to having coaches in there to talk them through these challenges. And also one thing they saw we hadn't talked about yet is the app that they've been using with the coaches. Oh yeah, there's an app. So when you go, so it's mindpumpgroupcoaching.com. It's 12 weeks. So it's 12 weeks of coaching by our trainers and again we'll be in there as well. You could track, so you could track your workout progress. You could track metrics like body weight, waist circumference, steps. Links directly to MyFitnessPal. So you track nutrition, you watch exercise videos in there, and then the coach has access

to it. So you go back and forth and you get that kind of personal coach. So it's an app that comes. I mean the last group that we did was incredibly successful. Everybody loved it, that went through the process. And again, mind pump fashion, we're always trying to level up and make it better this time. And this is Kyle. I mean, Kyle created the app in there for everyone

to be able to use this. And so this is cool. It's in addition to what we did last time, just to get even more hands on. I mean, the community already in the forum that you'll have the private forum you'll have access to already starts to create that dynamic. But even having it even better with the app,

I think people are going to love that. Yeah, and the key is just consistency better with the app, I think people are gonna love that. So, for sure. And the key is just consistency. I really can't stress that enough. As I went through that data on personal training, and I thought about the success of, or should I say the influence of CrossFit, whatever, it's like we can't understate,

if you're listening, if you wanna get started on a fitness journey, being part of something that helps you, that you work with other people along the way, the data shows that that's the best odds you have for success. Otherwise the odds are terrible. The data shows, it doesn't matter what you do, what diet you do, whatever,

unless you're working with a coach or a group, your fail rate is 90 plus percent. It's like one of the worst fail rates of almost anything. It's so difficult, and I get it, you know, it's so hard to live a healthy and fit lifestyle in the world, it's just a terrible, it's a dismal success rate. So anyway, I got some, so I looked up data on sleep

over the weekend, I had some terrible sleep, and just when I have some interest, so I looked up data on sleep over the weekend. I had some terrible sleep, and just, when I have terrible sleep, or when I do anything, it leads me down a rabbit hole. And I was looking up like insomnia and poor sleep and stuff like that, and it was almost unreported for a long time, and then it really became, unless people were ill, it didn't start becoming an issue

until electricity became a staple. And the more we used things that use electricity, like TVs, as TVs became radios and then TVs. Did you happen to, did this study show, like I'd be, now you're saying this right now, I'm thinking like, man, I wonder how much smartphones impacted insomnia, and so I would think that that exacerbated it.

Oh yeah, I bet we could find it. That had to accelerate there. Well, so here's what's crazy, people used to sleep, they didn't sleep seven or eight hours. Average person slept something like 10 hours. That was more common way back in the day. People, because... Because you worked your ass off doing laborious things I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like,

I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like,

I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like,

I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't know, I think I was like, I don't use electric lights at all, don't turn on TV. When it gets dark outside, use candles. Look how sleepy you get.

Very quickly you start to get sleepy. I had heard that they knew the problems with blue light way before they okayed it in terms of the whole policy of changing for economic reasons, some of the lighting even for canned lights and making those like fluorescent and casting down more blue light and also on your phone. And then they passed, you know, that to happen.

It like dramatically affected everybody's sleep. Yeah. What is the, what is the, Doug, I know that, you know, you were the one who hunted down all of our special lights at Truckee because you can't even buy them in California. Yeah. And it's like a softer...

It's incandescent. So it's basically the old light bulbs. The old school ones. Yeah. So the light is more of a golden glow. Yeah. It's almost like this kind of orangish red or some kind of color. I hate these fluorescent lights, dude.

I would smash them all. Why? Why? Why did they outlaw it in California? Well, they take a lot more energy to run it So it's yeah, so LED lights are very cheap to run. Yep. So the old Candescent bulbs. Yeah, you know, by the way that they'll talk about the light on your phone and stuff like that They know the effect that has on you. It's stimulatory. They want that

Last thing you want is for somebody gets sleepy.. Of course, when they're using their product. Well, here's what's crazy. You know what people used to do? It's like a slot machine, dude. It wasn't that long ago, like a few decades ago. What people used to do before bed to help them get sleepy was read. Now, if you read, you probably read on your phone,

it's the last thing you should do to get sleepy. It will keep you awake. Read a real book in bed with a soft light behind you, like candlelight, and you'll read 30, 40 minutes and you're like, yeah. That used to be like a hack for me to help me go to sleep. That's it. Have a hard time like, oh, pull a book out.

So as I was going through this, I was like, oh my God, we've really screwed ourselves up because not only that, but we also have temperature control. So as temperature drops, we also start to get sleepy. As light drops, we start to get sleepy. We wake up when light starts to appear and when things get warmer. So it's as if we're supposed to live outside

or you know what I mean, with nature. And so we've designed our homes and everything to make it so that sleep is a problem. Sleep now is a challenge for a majority of people. So it's interesting. This is why, by the way, eight sleep, we work with them. I think that's, to me, the bed temperature controlling. It hacks it, right?

Yeah. I mean, lights are up there too. Obviously trying to sleep with lights on and doing that would be terrible. But I mean, that's an easy solve, I feel like. That's like, or at least it has been before. Yeah, just turn them off. Turn your lights off, and if you've got some of

those like orange lights or salt lamps that you have or fire, like we, I love the fireplace going. That's my favorite thing, especially in the winter time. That's easy. But the, the temperature control in the house, I have yet to meet a couple that is on the same page. Every couple I've ever met, and it's different for each couple, who runs hot, who runs cold, but there seems to be a drastic difference. The sleep aid with the manageable sides like that, to me is like the most, I mean, at least for me, it's been that big of a difference because as much as Contrita is somewhat compromised to my temperature, she's not worried. When she leaves, when she goes out of town, she just got back, she just left to Park City two weekends ago.

We're in the middle of winter. I open up all the windows. Fans are on. I mean, it is freezing in the house. Max and I sleep so good because that's how I want it. I want the house cold. I want everything cold, and I want to be all bundled up. So even though she's compromised,

I still can't get it as cold as I would like it. But then the eight sleep allows me to put the bed there. So at least when I get under the covers, it is cold underneath there. We never had the same covers. I'd always like stack a bunch of blankets on top of Courtney. And then I was like, just a sheet. Yeah.

Until, yeah, we were able to kind of control that a bit better with technology. It's been life changing. I'm on top of the covers. Jessica's under them. That's how we sleep. I'm like half naked on top. And she's like, cold. That's been life changing. I'm on top of the covers, Jessica's under them. That's how we sleep. I'm like half naked, on top, and she's like. That's what I mean.

Have you guys met a couple where they're both husband and wife? Yeah, we're like the exact same temperature. I've never met that. I've never met a couple that is the same. I wonder how it used to be. It was probably, if you go back hundreds of years, it was probably the husband was probably holding his wife. So he's the one getting cold, and he's keeping her warm and safe

in the ring of the dark. Probably what it was. Yeah, I definitely think that we've, the modern times have been evolved for the women more than anything else. I'm pretty sure that the most, most men, although I have seen some relationships where the girl on top. The guy likes it.

Yeah, yeah, but most guys like it much colder. You know what messes with your ability to tolerate temperature? Metapause, so that's what- Well that, yes, but besides that, is actually being tired will do that. If you're ever sleep deprived, notice your intolerance to temperature changes.

You're more cold, more hot, you just can't tolerate them if you're tired. I noticed this with myself. This is actually, yeah, this is also documented. Speaking of studies, by the way, remember the study we brought up that Jeff Nipper did on a cheek curl versus a strick curl? Oh, actually, yeah, this is also documented. Speaking of studies, by the way, remember the study we brought up that Jeff Nipper did on a cheek curl versus strict curl? Oh yeah, yeah.

And how he said there's no difference in hypertrophy, therefore you might as well pick the strict one because why risk the extra? You know there's a flaw in that study that I was thinking about this morning as well. Okay, there are studies that show that if I incapacitate one arm, I put it in a cast, and then I exercise the other arm, I will minimize to a degree the muscle loss in the arm that's capacitated. In other words, training my right arm, most of the muscle building signal goes to the right arm,

but some seems to go to the other arm as well. Because they were exercising one arm one way and the other arm the other way, there was some crosstalk that might have messed up the study a little bit. You see what I'm saying? I think the only way to be accurate, and I can't think of a better way to do the study

because I think he did it well, you'd have to have twins exercise differently or something like that. Because he did it on himself on one arm. It was all the study subjects were one arm cheek or the other arm. The other arm on the individual. But there's that crosstalk that goes over it and the exercises are similar enough to where would you even see a difference if there was a difference.

The radiation effect, right? Exactly. The question I had was also the novelty aspect too. Like what if somebody always trained really, really strict. Of course. Because I mean to me that's the one that always trumps this argument to me, is that if you were, because I mean, this was me. I told you guys that I was super strict, super lightweight,

slow down tempo. It wasn't until later did I get into like cheat exercising, come more towards the power lifting when I started really caring about moving the weight. Did I allow myself to start to put English on the bar, and actually cheat it up a little bit? And I got huge benefits from it. But I also know that it's not the cheat curl or the cheat exercise that gave me a huge

benefit, is that it was so novel. My body was so used to and adapted to this real strict lower weight, slow tempo, that throwing a weight that I hadn't lifted before and using a little momentum to get up there shocked my body and I saw results in it. So, I mean, that's the other part to this study or any study like this that you have to factor that in there. I would love to see a long study, like a year long, where you have this group do one workout the whole time,

then this group change variables every three months to see what the difference, I think I know what the answer would be, but that would be such an expensive study. You know, you're talking about going strict and using lightweight and stuff like that. You know, it's funny, when you look at people who are consistent in the gym, they tend to fall

into one category, and I don't mean cleanly, although some people are clearly in one category versus the other, but some people value how they look more than the way that they perform, and other people value perform more than how they look. And I would say I dip into either one, but I was just talking to Justin about this the other day, because he's been working out,

and Justin's a performance guy, 100%. We know this. Guilty. But I was talking with him, and he's like, you know what, the truth is, for me, if I had to pick, I would, being able to lift more like you know what the truth is for me if I had to pick I would Like being able to lift more weight is always more exhilarating for me then looks always have a silly other way Yeah, I mean, I'm like that's what I'm known for. Yeah, I'll show no-go guy

Yeah, that was like that was my thing forever is this like I don't I don't need to be able to lift all that way So long as I look like I can Know shame shame ain't asking you about your PR be able to lift all that way so long as I look like I can lift all that way. No shame. No shame. Your girl ain't asking you about your PR. Yeah. I said no chick has ever asked me when I take my shirt off, how much do you bench? Like she's never has that. She either says, wow, or she's not impressed. One or the other. So I just love the feeling of like, just, you know what I mean? Just handling something really heavy and feeling really strong. It definitely is more powerful thing. It's just more exhilarating. Just for me.

I don't give a shit about anybody else. Admittedly, you guys are better, or right, more right. I don't disagree with you. It can go wrong too, though. There's more injury on this side. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's your- I've had to embrace the look more as I've gotten older

because if I push performance now at my age and I continue to push that, it's just, it turns into problems. Oh yeah, dude, it turns into problems. So now if you see me working out 95% of the time, it's about. I mean, I also think that, I mean, yeah. Again, admittedly I say that I'm that guy,

but there's a part of me that, like, I mean, I'm still in the performance aspect of my mobility and my technique and I wanna be strong enough, right? Like I don't want to be like, you know, I need, again, I need to be able to kick my son's friends, dad's asses, right? That's like, as long as I'm there. Standard, right? It's like, we're all making sure.

Yeah. Yeah. As long as they're strong. I mean, I just, that's easy. It's a low bar. Yeah. Yeah. We live in Silicon Valley. It's not like tough. It's not that tough. You know what I'm saying? I'm competing with a bunch of engineers. So it's not a high bar, but hey, you know what I'm saying? I'm competing with a bunch of engineers and stuff, you know what I'm saying? So it's not a high bar, but hey, you know what I'm saying? Like as long as they're impressed with my strength,

you know what I'm saying? And I look good. I had a kid that was going to my kid's school. Luckily they weren't in the same grade because it really pissed them off, pissed me off. But there was a kid, I saw, so John Fitch, you know who he is? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So a great guy, badass fighter, right? I seen him, this was years ago, I seen him walking his kid to the same school as my kid's school. Now right away I was like, damn it. Dan, there's another guy. Yeah, he's number one. He's number one.

Yeah, but I'm like, oh, your kid's younger than mine. I'm the toughest dad in the grade, but my kid's... Is that a good message, John? Did I ever tell you guys when I grappled with him? You know, I know you did back in the days when you were at the Hillsdale, right? Yeah, so I was, this is when I grappled with him? You wanna go? You know, I know you did back in the days when you were at the Hillsdale, right? Yeah, so I was, this is when I was really going hard in Jiu-Jitsu and Mike Swick, a friend of mine,

was competing to fight Yushin Okami and he wanted me to come roll with him and Fitch, because he was getting ready. Yushin was kind of a bigger guy and so I was a bigger guy. Not near, I wasn't obviously at the level of those guys, but I went and rolled with him. Were you already a purple belt at this time or just on your way? I was, or I was just becoming, I was very competitive at the level of those guys, but I went and rolled with them. Were you already a purple belt at this time, or just on your way?

I was, or I was just becoming, I was very competitive at this point. At this point I could hold my own against most people in dojos, not like national level or anything like that, right? So I was good, but I wasn't like UFC good. But I remember going against those guys, and especially Fitch, he was a D1 wrestler.

And it's like, you could be a great high school basketball player. You'd be an awesome college basketball player. Then you go in the NBA, and suddenly, suddenly it's not like they're a little better than you. They're so much better than you. You're like a toddler. Yeah, it's like you don't even know what you're doing anymore.

Like I was going against those guys, and the intensity and the speed was like, it was mind blowing. What's that guy's page you guys follow? That George, Georgio or? Love that guy, Poulos, I think his name blowing. What's that guy's page you guys follow? That Georgio or? Love that guy, Pulis, I think his name is. What's his name? He's like, take me down for a thousand dollars. Yeah, I mean that's such an example of that, right?

That wrestler, yeah, he's awesome. Cause he's wrestling, he's not like not wrestling athletic ex-fighters, wrestler. I mean he's taking on anybody and everybody that will get him and it just shows you. Guys three times the size. Yeah, it just shows you that there's levels to all games, dude. There's levels to all these games.

And yeah, you could be good in your town. You could be good in your dojo. Then there's like elite class. And it's like where he's so good, extra 50 pounds. And you know, a guy that's in a black belt isn't even good enough. Like, it's wild to see how good he is. What's his name, Georgio Polis? Yes.

That guy's a badass. I guarantee anyone listening has heard or seen him. I love watching his videos, dude. And he's just like, I'm always, oh no, I wonder if he got this guy. And he just humiliates people. He went against, I think it was his brother who's a really high level wrestler.

And it was one of the better matches. I've gone down the rabbit hole too to see if it's like true or he only posts to his wins he's it's legit like he's legit by the way speaking it I got it I gotta give you sal your credit word word to do on this type of stuff okay yeah I know you do so feed off of it and it's good for the podcast too because I think obviously during the covid time, we got this conservative Trump stamp on us because we spoke out about a few things. And it's just like, the culture shift is so wild to see. And I guess maybe being in your 40s now

when you've been around for several different decades and politicians come through, come and go and swinging left, swinging right, and getting older and wiser and being able to pull back and see things. It's such a trip to me to see this shift to, you know, patriotism now. Oh, it's crazy.

So strong. And when it gets me is when I go, oh, wow. Like, so I sent a clip to a couple friends and Katrina even like, man, check this out. Talk about the culture shift right now and like, get patriotism, brr, type of deal. It was Cat Williams. Oh, yeah.

OK, do you know what that was? No. That was 2019. Oh, wow. That wasn't even new. Wow. So this is my point. You didn't even see that before.

Didn't even see that bullshit just a few years ago. Everything was scrubbed out. Well, not just that, nobody wanted to share it. Or now it's being promoted to you. There's a lot of ways you can look at it. Sure. You can look at it a middle way. You can say, oh, it was scrubbed out.

No one paid attention to it. No one was sharing it. Or you could say it wasn't being pushed to you like it's being pushed to you now and You know, I bought into it like whoa check this out You know sure find out all that's true and then I is of what they're uncovering and they're really digging into these audits It's it's pretty alarming and I don't know why people aren't more alarmed of how much corruption and criminal acts I just don't I don't like the way that feels. Hmm way that feels. I don't like the way that feels to me.

That's it. Does it makes me not feel good about the club? Yeah. Yeah, it's really, it's a, you know, and I don't like it even when it's on the side. I agree with. I just want to make that clear to the audience of like kind of where we stand on this. Cause I know we've been pigeonholed into certain things because of saying, we just scream out for transparency.

I mean, that was the biggest thing. It's like, you know, I want to know what, what, what's really happening and you're lying to me. You're obviously lying to me. If you're lying to me, I'm not going to accept it. That's it. Like just don't lie to me. It makes me just trust all sides of media, all channels, all outlets, even less because it's like, yeah, here's something just because this is where cultures are moving this way. Look at Bud Light's advertisement. I know, I know. How hard is this?

Shane Gillis, I mean, couldn't go more redneck, in redneck country. He's grilling a big steak, riding a lawnmower with his fucking sketchers on it. I mean, it couldn't be more middle America. Dude, you like that Jeep commercial with Harrison Ford? That was fantastic, dude. They don't have any principles.

So, see, and, you know, of course, I mean, I like that stuff, right? So if I lean more like that, but I don't like that, I feel like it's being fed to me now just because of that. It's like, sure, and I don't wanna allow it to rile me up and get me excited, you know about about it because it's just like, it's all fake. You stay tempered, yeah. It's fake.

Where the fuck were you three years ago? Absolutely. Where were you at with those views and those points? It's easy now, you know? Yeah. It's easy now. It's just, I put a real bad taste in my mouth. And the fact that it got me, that I literally forwarded that to,

I think you guys and a couple other friends. And Katrina's in the shower. I'm like, oh, man, so crazy. She's like, what are you talking about? I'm like about like oh it's just wild how much culture's shifting in this direction it's like well so yeah church community and I was talking to I believe he was your pastor at one point Chad yeah and just just you know that whole time period was really difficult because you know and I hadn't been going to church and because I was very, very disappointed in a lot of the values. And I understand like they're in a very precarious situation like they have to piece, they're going to lose, lose, right? They're going to get hammered

by people that are all on board and they're going to hammer on people that are like, you know, not up for it. But there was one church in this area that took a stand, and so I was like, that's the church. And I'm like, I see that. I see the ones that were fearless, amidst being ridiculed. It's integrity. It's integrity. Not a lot of people have it.

And that was very clear to me through this whole process. You know, that's interesting. I'm attracted to somebody that has opposing views than I do, so long as you're consistent with it no matter what. And it's real. And it's real, like I like that more than I like just people that agree with me.

Somebody that folds and things like that. Yeah, yeah, like just because you agree with me now or, nah, you know what, Justin, you brought up, what you brought up is very interesting because I didn't know this, because I work with Chad, he coaches me and teaches me scripture and all that stuff. It actually said, this was a very difficult part of the Bible for me to struggle with,

it actually says in there, respect authority. And honor the emperor, honor Caesar. This was during a time when they were getting killed, they were getting thrown to the lions, burned alive, and they literally are preaching, no, no, no, you respect authority. So some churches saw that, read that and said, okay, who are we serving here and where's the line?

So some churches, when I go to, they did things virtually because they saw that and said, okay, we need to respect the law. We think this is, they grew during COVID. They actually grew massively during that whole period of time. Very interesting. So I don't know. It worked out for them. It did work out. It's really, really interesting. Let's go back to science. I found some cool studies on terpenes. So terpenes are found in

plants and it gives them their like the smell like there's the terpene. And flavor, right? Smell, flavor. Yeah, it's like lemon, liminal gives you that lime, that lemony smell, pineol gives you that kind of pine scent. Well anyway, where I'm going with this is when they study terpenes and their effects on the body, terpenes have cannabinoid-like effects on the body. And when you combine them with cannabinoids like CBD, then you get this really powerful pronounced effect. So where am I going with this?

The CBD market blew up for a while, started to fizzle because people were taking pure CBD products, getting very little results. And that's probably because they extracted the CBD, included none of the terpenes, none of the other cannabinoids, it was just CBD. When you combine it with other cannabinoids and the terpenes is when you get the big effect.

So that's why our partner's Ned, you feel that. Have you ever felt a CBD product? I never have. You take Ned, you feel it. It's got all the other stuff. Yeah, dude. Because I've taken lots and lots of CBD things. They have their own unique effects too, yeah.

That's why people seek those different screens. Well, I mean, this is also, shout out to Ned for the people that don't know the history on that relationship. So when I was on my way out from the cannabis clubs, that was the new prevailing science that was coming out. We didn't know that. For the longest time, if you've been around that space or knew anything about it, like you talked about Indica

and Sativa and it was like, this is what makes the difference on how we feel and like, you know, the combinations, if it's an 80-20 split and that's kind of how we spoke to. And that was like, I needed to know that because we were educating the people that were coming in and purchasing and some were purchasing for pain, some were purchasing for insomnia, whatever. And so you needed to know like, oh, this will be more for this. Meanwhile, that whole time we were communicating that, not really realizing that the terpenes were, was the deciding factor on all the stuff that we were communicating related to Sativa and Endicuts.

Now there's some crossover and some commonalities, right? These Endicuts tend to have more of this, the Sativas have more of that or whatever. But so we weren't all wrong, but we didn't have the complete puzzle. I remember when I was leaving, that that science was just coming out and nobody was, no brand, nobody, no clubs were talking about it yet. And so then when we fast forward a year or two later, mind pumps growing and stuff like that. I'm obviously out of that industry.

We're interested in CBD looking for a product and we meet Ned and that was one of the things they were. And I remember telling Sal like oh you got to meet the guys and talk to them. You'll know more than I will get it Yeah, they get it and sure shit. I remember after you had the conversation with them. You're just like Oh, yeah, these guys are presenting the right information and science They really understand it and why that's so important in this market is just same reason why and we talk about the red light stuff It's just so many charlatans flooded it. It's not FDA regulated. And so it's just like the supplement industry where there's a lot of pixie dust going.

There's a lot of bad science. There's a lot of misinformation. And the average consumer who doesn't know how to figure it out is interested because they heard, oh, it's good for pain or, oh, it's good for sleep, or it's got these properties that you just go online and you find the best deal and you buy it, or your friend told you about this brand. And then nothing happens. And then nothing happens and you're like,

oh, this is bullshit, it doesn't work. And it's like, well, you bought something that was probably not what you needed and a product that is probably half of what it says it has. And so, that's a big shout out You know, they've always been a great partner and have done things the right way and it's cool to see their success. If you eat a high protein diet,

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Adam and I get on and teach trainers and coaches how to be more successful, make more money, and get their clients better results, and it's all free. Register at TrainerWebinar.com. Our first caller is Deborah from Florida. Hey, Deborah. How are you?

Morning. Hey, I'm doing good. How are you guys? We're good. How can we help you? Well, so the question I had for you guys is in regards to my own personal training. So I coach, but throughout my life in coaching

and my own health, I've never really done much of restrictions or anything like that. So October, November, I did my first bikini competition and I joined as figure. So that was the first time in my life. I actually did restriction and prep and all that, which was a fun challenge. Um, and the judges gave me the feedback that, you know, they loved me and all that, but that they would recommend me going to bikini because I didn't quite

build as much muscle and I have a little bit of a skinny frame. So I feel like I gained muscle easy in terms of definition but not bulking. So I will do another show in November. So I have a lot of time to train. During this first prep, I did use maps anabolic and aesthetics. So I was trying to follow that plan.

So I want to challenge myself to see how much can I gain? Can I stay to in figure? Because I don't want to quite go to bikinis, not my style. So I wanted to try to stretch to gain and bulk. But then I also love running. And I normally do one half marathon a year. So part of my question was like, is it even possible to do the bulking

while still running? In the past, I've managed to run and train and not really lose muscle. I've been able to gain muscle during running season, but obviously not to the level of bulking for a competition. So I wanted to have an idea if I have to give up running. And since I have such a long time until actually with getting prep again, what does that even look like in terms of phases and training? And you know, like it's such a long journey from here to there, but I feel I have to use it wisely if I actually want to gain as much muscle as I

possibly would have to. So let's first address what the judges said and then what you want to do. So let's first address what the judges said and then what you wanna do. And November is actually not a really long time away. If the judges told you that your physique, your current physique is going to do better in bikini and you want to do figure, doesn't mean that's not possible, but to think that you're going to jump to that class

and put enough size on to actually win or do well in figure before November is probably not likely. I mean, it's just, if they're telling you that, that tells me right away that they think your frame is better for bikini. And by the way, I've coached many girls that went from bikini up to figure, figure down to bikini, and so I kind kinda know what it takes

and what they're looking for. I would want you to give yourself at least an entire year of just dedicated to building and putting size on to try and reach that level. Because if you were really close, they wouldn't say anything to you. They wouldn't go, oh, you probably belong in figure. They'd be like, oh, they would give you some critiques,

maybe a little more shoulder definition, and do that. But they're like, oh, you probably belong in figure. They'd be like, oh, they would give you some critiques, maybe a little more shoulder definition, and they do that, but they're like, yeah, you probably belong in bikini. That means we got a ways to go to put enough mass and size on that they think that you belong in that, which is a great goal, I love it. But I mean, now I'm looking at a picture right now of you.

So we'd want to really put a entire year dedicated to just building, It's just building that. And could you do some running and cardio stuff along the way? You could, but you're also now prolonging that because the focus is completely to build. It doesn't mean you can't do it. It's not possible because I know I'm going to get a bunch of hate for saying that. But the reality is if you were my client and our goal was to get up to figure and the judges are telling us we're bikini built, you know, we got a good year of building ahead of us to focus on that. Or get ready for a show and get into bikini. I mean, it's kind of...

To be clear, like the question you're asking, because you're competing, so when you compete, this is an extreme presentation sport of muscle and definition and all that stuff. So if your question was, can I be fit and healthy and sculpted and have a nice body and all that stuff and do my half marathon plus strength training, yes, 100%, you're already there. That's not a problem. But you're asking us if you can become competitive

in figure, which is a very competitive sport, can you do that by November while also half the year training for half marathon? Probably not, you're gonna slow yourself down for sure. Well, while also leaping a category too. That's right, that's right. That's like you competing in classic

and then deciding you wanna go to pro bodybuilding. It's gonna be very, very difficult. So you have to figure out what your priority is. How badly do you want to compete in this category? Is this more important to you than, let's say, general fitness and health and enjoying running? Because you're going to have to sacrifice some of that, for sure.

You'll lose some of the skill of running, for sure, in pursuit of this. Yeah, and my goal is not to win. Like I don't fit into the category of somebody that wants to compete and win. I'm doing that more like as a way to challenge myself and to create new results and to push my discipline to a level that is normally not my level. What my goal would be is like do well enough in the feeling of if I will go with figure feeling I belong in figure you know because this one I did and it was fun but obviously I

know I wasn't built for figure stage. The bikini is just such a stretch for me just like the poses and I prefer to push the weights than to learn how to mingle. You know what I mean? I'm with you. I get it. Trust me, I get it. It was my least favorite part of competing was that. Yes.

I mean, you just got to ask what's more important for you as a priority and where you want to go with that. By the way, Figure Today, and you train naturally. You put that in your email. Figure Today was bodybuilding 30 years ago for women. Female figure competitors have a lot of muscle. I know there's bodybuilding, female bodybuilding, which is a whole other... that's like you're transitioning to male at that point in terms of the hormones they take and

stuff like that. But figure today is... I mean you have to build a lot of muscle to do. It's very difficult to do. No, you're right. Women's bodybuilding 10 years ago looks like what figure is now. I mean, yeah, yeah, 20, 30 years ago. Like, you look at the first Miss Olympia and she wouldn't even do well in a bikini today. She didn't have enough muscle. So really the question is priority.

Like, if, and I'll help you with this, right? Is health, general fitness, functionality, is that your goal or is it to look like a figure competitor more of a priority? Because you're gonna sacrifice to compete in figure, you're gonna sacrifice your running ability, stamina, function, health, to compete in figure. It's just the way it is.

So you gotta think like which one's more important, and you know, and then whatever decision you make is totally fine, but you gotta go all in with that. Yeah. Well for me the priority is the first. It's more like the health, the function, like being at my best.

Which is again, with the longer, and I get that it's not so long of a prep, but I really want to do prep a little bit different than what I did the first time around, because the first time I followed what the coach said, and there was quite a bit of some hardcore restrictions. And I'm like, man, it's not possible. I need to eat just broccoli. Like, you know, it's kind of like I would like to learn to do things maybe a little bit more. Yeah, strict and disciplined. But I mean, understand the mechanics of it a little bit

better as a coach as well. But for me, health is the priority. And the reason for the show is just to give me a deadline because coming from an athletic background, I'm used to competitions. That's why I run half marathons because I like the finish line. I like to get a map. And I like that feeling of I'm training for this. And with the gym, you don't have that, right? You go there, and after certain points it's like, okay, I look good. I'm not training for looking good.

So the training for the show was just to give me something that is putting me on a deadline and putting pressure because now, you know, I share on my social media that I'm doing this. So it gives you that feeling of I have something I'm training for and everyday matters because I'm in a training schedule. But it's not for me to win. And it's definitely not for me to ruin anything on my body. You know, it's not for me to have all the key issues or to drive myself crazy. None of that like really matters for me. just matters that when I get on that stage, I feel I did my best, I'm looking good,

and I'm better than the last one, and I feel like, you know, way to go, girl. Like you killed it. Then you're gonna be fine. You'll be fine. Keep doing what you're doing. Go in a bulk, train appropriately, do your half marathon. You'll bring a better package than you did last time for sure.

And I like your attitude, I really do because the stage, figure, fitness, body, but it's extreme, it's not healthy, I get it though, but if you function in health and longevity and mobility, then those are not the sports, those aren't gonna be the sports for you at all. Especially if you, do you coach other people

for health and fitness, right? Yeah, I mean, I think you'll do better going the direction you're going and not going extreme anyway. And then, you know, as far as like posting on social media, you can always present your progress just to your social media and not have to go on stage. That's actually just as valuable, if not more valuable,

than competitions now anyway, in terms of building your business and showing kind of that. Debra, are you trying to build your training business right now or is it more like a side hustle for you? Are you actually trying to build it and scale it? No, I'm a full-time coach. I have a location that we do coaching

and we have a health bar. I had a fitness studio in Canada before, but now in Florida, I don't have a studio, but my coaching is more focused in lifestyle and balance, which is why I never done restriction because where I live with people is a, you don't need to be perfect. I just got abs because I wanted to prove to people I could have abs and eat pizza. Literally that's kind of what brought me to fitness was people doing the bikini shows being so extreme. And I was like,

I'll show to you guys that I can have abs eating pizza and not eating chicken and broccoli every day. I love that. I mean, I think it's a great, a great overall message. Have you gone through our coaching course yet? No, not yet. Oh, wow. We're going to get you in there. I know you, have you heard about the CRM that we're doing also? All, not yet. Oh wow, we're gonna get you in there. Have you heard about the CRM that we're doing also? All that stuff is, oh man, that all, oh wow. I saw guys at the CoachCon, right? And after CoachCon, I was like, I need to actually focus on the business and not do so

many certifications. But I saw you guys launched one and I was interested and curious and I had a quick look on it, but I haven't really gone down to see what you guys were offering with that. Yeah if you want I can have Ann who's our educator runs all that. Ours is focused just so you know we didn't want to compete with the certifications like NASM, NCSF although we're accredited ours is focused on the business side helping you scale make more money everything from social media lead generation email marketing things like that and like that. And so it probably pertains more. If you want, I can have Anne give you a call and kind of give you an overview of what that looks like and show you what we're doing. Yeah, yeah for sure. Okay, awesome. And then as a coach, do you have

Maps Prime or Prime Pro? Do you use any of the correctional exercises for them? No, I haven't. Let me send you, I'll send you Maps Prime. I think you'll find value in that with your clients. Just from a correctional exercise perspective. Awesome, thank you. You got it. All right. Now, if I may, just a quick question.

Just to get a sense of, with the months I have ahead now, because again, I've never done ball game, what would that look like in terms of the phases? Because I have the anabolic and aesthetics and I was just planning to get back to begin the beginning on those, but that will not take me all the way. Right. So like with all the months I have ahead of me, seven, eight months, what would that look like in terms of how do I phase my training?

I like anabolic aesthetic symmetry and then you can go back to aesthetic or split. Yeah, basically what do we have? Nine months, so it's three programs. Three programs. Yes, you have three programs to, and I would make aesthetic the one that is your prep. You're ending with. Yeah, ending with. So what's the work backwards? So, aesthetic is the last three months and then before that you could do a lot of different things. You could do strong, you could do anabolic, you do anabolic advance. Like you could go anabolic, anabolic advance and then aesthetic.

That's a great one. That would be a great order right there and if you don't have anabolic advance, you have anabolic advanced or no? I have anabolic because I got like a package. So I bought the anabolic aesthetics and the butt builder. Those are the three. OK, well then I'll have Doug send you over anabolic advanced because that's what I would love to see you do. I'd love to see you go anabolic, anabolic advanced, and then maps aesthetic going into your show. That would lay out the entire time.

Well, that makes it very clear for me. Thank you guys. Yeah, of course. Yeah, you got it. Good luck. Yeah, good luck, Deborah. I hope we see you in the for me. Thank you guys. Yeah of course. Yeah, good luck. Yeah, good luck Deborah. I hope we see you in the course too. Thank you. Yes, thank you so much guys. I appreciate your time and giving me the chance to talk with you. I always love everything you guys do so thank you for all the good work you put in there. Thank you. Yeah, that's good. You know, you have to often boil it down to, okay, well what's the real priority? What's more important to you? Because it's easy to get caught up in the, I want everything.

I want everything, but you can't do everything. The body doesn't work that way. And the more extreme the everything, the goals within the everything represent, the more impossible it is to do all those things. You just end up compromising and extending your timeline. And you just have to be honest with yourself with that and what's your main priority and stick with it. She has the right mindset for someone

that's gonna do that, right? And I mean, I guess I really wanted to get to the bottom of because I know what those categories look like, I know if the judges are saying that, I know what it takes to go to the next category up, it's difficult, it takes time, but if you also don't care, you know what I'm saying? Like you don't care if they place you 12th or 10th or 5th

or you're just like, you wanna prove to yourself you can do it, you wanna use the framework of accountability and teaching others. It's like, oh, in that case, well then, you could do all of it. You could do the marathon, you can do the training for it, you can do all of it. Now, you definitely won't bring the best version

of you because it's not all you care about, but that's okay. I mean, the way she communicated it made sense. It's like, I like the accountability piece. I can show people I'm doing it. It's like, oh, okay. Well, if that's the case, and you don't care what place you really get, well, in that case, then we can do all of this stuff. Our next caller is Natalie from Illinois. Hi, Natalie. Hi, Natalie. How can we help you? Hi.

How are you doing? Thank you guys for taking my call today. I really appreciate you taking the time. You got it. How can we help you? So I started listening to you guys a few months ago and since then I've purchased your map starter program. In 2023, I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and it led me to make a lot of lifestyle changes since then.

My question for you guys is, do you have suggestions for people working through your maps program who experienced chronic pain and would you make any adjustments? Yeah, good question. I have a lot of experience with this. The most important thing for you to do is manage stress, period, end of story. Now stress, when I say stress, sometimes we think about, oh, my stressful job or stressful situations. I'm also talking about things like lack of sleep, poor diet, lack of sunlight, and exercise. So when I had clients who suffered from fibromyalgia,

the training intensity was very carefully monitored. We would train at moderate intensity, and if we got any hint of a sign, if any excess fatigue, we would back off. Through this process, I was able to successfully train these people without any major flare-ups, and we were able to progress, and we were just careful about it. So what you don't want to do is go to the gym

and be like, I feel good, I'm gonna go crush it. No, no, no, I feel good, I'm gonna go moderate. That's it. Oh, I feel bad, I'm gonna go real easy. And be consistent with that and you'll find that your body will progress just like anybody else is. I see she started with Map Starter.

That's the right program, it's a great choice. Okay, good. I was wondering, cause I've never worked out at a gym before like consistently before this so I thought that was like the best place for me to start. Great place for you to start. Now regardless of any of our programs that you follow the thing that you manage the most is intensity. So starter, maps anabolic, maps strong, suspension, whatever it is you follow, it's the intensity

that's the most important thing. So you can do volume and frequency, they can also cause too much stress, but intensity will get you there faster than anything else. I mean you could do one workout with just extreme, ridiculous intensity and cause some big problems. So you just focus on technique and control and form and all that stuff and then slowly allow yourself to progress. It'll be totally fine. Yeah for myself with the starter program I've like when I go to

the gym I've kind of like slowed it down a little bit. And I, since I don't have any experience, I've been like going pretty slow, just trying to make sure I'm getting everything right. Like the volume isn't like anything crazy, but I just want to make sure that I'm getting like the movement right first. I love that. It's a perfect mentality to have the intention like that. And two, sharpening the mechanics and making sure really form is of the utmost importance.

And that's where you're going to progress a lot. The skill of working out that you're learning and acquiring, you're going to actually progress with that. It's not always just load that we're focused on. Natalie, are you in our private forum yet? No, I'm not actually. I'm on. Natalie, are you in our private forum yet? No, I'm not actually. I'm gonna have Deb put you in there. I would love for us to go through this process with you.

Anytime I have somebody new to the gym and getting started, just so you have direct access to us. Anytime in that private forum, you get, you know, you feel something when you're working out, you're not certain about something that we're doing. You just go in there, you post, you tag one of us or all of us and let us help you through this process because how you get started really tends to dictate how consistent you continue to be and so I want to make sure that we help you through that process.

Yeah and if you need to modify anything, like I don't know if there's any specific exercises that might, you know, you notice later on or the next day affected you a little bit more with that. Like we can kind of work with you on adjusting things. So it'd be good to have you in the forum for sure. Thank you. I would really appreciate that. I'm kind of just trying to figure it all out. So some guidance would be really helpful.

That's why we're here, Natalie, for sure. So please, please use us and let us help you through that. But no question is a dumb question, okay, too. So even if you think it's silly, post it in there, tag us, let us walk you through this really, really, and all of us have had a lot of experience with clients that suffer from this and everything that Sal is telling you is right, and that looks so different for each person.

So there's not a generic answer of, oh, do it this way or do these things and you're gonna be fine. It's like how your body responds could be totally different. I've seen a wide variety of that. And so just communicate as you go through that with us so we have insight on what's going on

and let us help you through it. Okay, thank you. All right. Yeah, I feel like because it is so different with everybody that, you know, my metric for like progress is like pain level instead of like, like any gains that I'm getting. So I think like, it's just a, I don't know, a bit different, I think, and trying to like figure it all out. Yep.

Yep. But I, I, I've had, I have really good experience with this with some clients that train for years and they, they made a great progress. Uh, we just were very careful managing the intensity of the workouts. That's it. Well, thank you.

That makes me feel really excited and like, glad that, you know, it's possible and you know, exercise really does help. So yes, I'm Really excited that I found you guys. I'm glad you heard I think I saw you wrote down that you just recently found us It's only been a few months Yeah, how did you find the podcast? I? Was actually listening to

Dr. John Delaney and he was talking about you guys. We love John sweet Dr. John Deloney and he was talking about you guys. Oh awesome. We love John. Oh sweet. Yeah he's great. Yeah he's really great. So I was listening to him and he was recommending you guys to one of the people that called into him.

And so that's how I ended up looking and finding you guys. Awesome. Thanks for telling us. Yeah glad we got you in here. So we'll take care of you through this process, Natalie. Thank you so much guys. All right. Thank you. You have a good one. Take care. You know this process, Natalie. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you. All right.

You have a good one. Take care. You know, the whole, the interesting thing about this is because, so with fibromyalgia, stress is the biggest, like just your body's ability to tolerate stress, that's the biggest predictor of, you know, am I gonna get these crazy flare ups of pain? Well, it's autoimmune, right?

Yeah, well, yeah, that's what they think. And you know what's interesting about this is exercise increases or improves your body's ability to deal with stress. So properly applied exercise is a great way to treat the symptoms of fibromyalgia. That being said, the over application of exercise, if you wanna get in a lot of pain, that's an easy way to do it. Just go beat yourself up in the gym. But it's also simultaneously this incredible

answer. You just have to manage it properly. Like I said, I've had really good success with this with clients. Our next caller is Boat from Thailand. Boat, what's up man? Hey, what's going down? Hey, hi guys. Yeah, wow. Now, it's 1 a.m. in the morning, so for me. So, I might sound a little bit sleepy, so I'm sorry for that. My question is about training to failure. Basically, how do I know if I'm training to failure or not? Now, I do not really want or never have I tried training to failure before. I just, you know, live two in a tank like you guys always said. Now, but that's why I get confused. Let's say I'm doing bench for three sets of 10 and on the first set I can do 10 comfortably with good form and I know that I could probably do two more comfortably

and that I think is leading to the 10. Now when I get to the second set right around the 9th rep I noticed that I started to slow down and I think in one of the episodes Adam said this is called something of like a tempo failure because I'm slowing down it's not the same anymore but anyway um at ninth night rep the form is still intact and I know that I could probably grind out three more reps out of me so I did one more rep just to get 10 is that still living two in the tank seeing that you know I could probably grind out two more. Or like I said that, you know, um, or be like, I just trying to failure because I slowed down the weight. And then after that, um, what should I do with the third set?

Should I just lower the weight down? Um, to sort of make sure that I could get 10 reps, uh, with good form without slowing down or, um, is doing the same way but only around let's say 8 reps okay. Yeah okay so good question good so leaving 2 in the tank means you think by the way this is all based off of perception. So you think to yourself I could probably grind out two more reps and finish the last rep That's leaving two more in the tank Okay, so if I'm going if my set is ten and I get to ten and it's hard and I go

I think I could maybe squeeze out two more then I stop right there. That's leaving two in the tank. So now Second part of the question is do I go lighter so I can do 10 reps, or do I just do less reps? Both of them are fine. Yeah, I prefer to go less reps until my reps start to knock me into another training cycle. So meaning, like let's say we have, you have, when we're training like power strength,

it's like four to six reps. When we're training hypertrophy, it's that eight to 12 and then endurance is like 15 plus. I'll keep shortening my reps. So let's say the first set it's 10 and then the second set it's nine, third set it's eight, I'm still okay. Now let's say if I had a four set of something,

I could only do like five. Well then I'm gonna probably lower the weight so I can still get more like eight reps. Does that make sense? So I'll just shave reps so long as I'm still staying. That's why it has a range of reps. Yeah, in that range. Once I start getting in the next range

where I'm in the low, now I'm getting down to like five by five type training. Well, now I need to lower the weight because ideally we're supposed to be training in this eight to 10 or 8 to 12 cycle. So I'll manipulate reps first until it starts to lower so much that I'm dipping out of that range. And then if I start dipping out of that range, I'll just pull weight off the bar so I can stay in that range. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How long have you been strength training for? Two and a half years. Before the match program, I have say six months. Okay, so you've been, so at least a few years of strength training? Yeah, about almost three years now. And what program are you following right now? MAPS Anabolic Advanced.

Oh good. See Anabolic Advanced, I was just going to recommend that because in Anabolic Advanced you do go to failure on some of your sets and that gives you a better gauge of what stopping two rep short feels like. I think that's why he's answering. Yeah. Cause sometimes what happens is we stop two reps short and we never go to failure and never go to failure and we start to lose grasp of what that is. So once you go to failure, like, Oh, I know what that feels like.

Then you can stop a little bit more accurately to rep shorts. I'm glad you're on that program. It's perfect. Yeah. Yeah. I actually, like Adam said, I asked this because I knew I'm going to, you know, started animal league advanced. Good.

Good. Yeah. When did you have you been doing it yet, or have you not started it yet? Uh, I just finished phase two last week on the D-load week right now. That's why, you know, meeting you at one AM in the morning doesn't seem, doesn't sound too bad. How's your progress been going? It's going good.

It's going good. I can feel me getting stronger. I had also seen the mirror that I look a little bit bigger. Although the weight does stay the same, but like you probably said, you know, oh, you're in a sweet spot right now. Same weight, getting bigger. So yeah. That is a sweet spot. You're doing good. You're doing good. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. All right, man. I doing good. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. All right, man. I like it Yeah, yeah

Thank you. Yep. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much for for for letting me join this call. It's been I Could not believe when I got the email from you guys. Hey, can we send you something? Let's send him a free program. What do you want? What do you want to follow next after anabolic advance? Can we send you something? Let's send them a free program. What do you want? What do you want to follow next after anabolic advance? Um, I actually had like my plan laid out for the year. Maybe if you okay, can I run it with you real quick?

Yeah, let's hear it. Yeah. So I'm, I'm, uh, again, I'm, I'm on animal advanced, uh, with the bulk. And after this starting March, I'll be running symmetry on a cut. Awesome. After that I'll go with aesthetic on the bulk. After that I'll go with anabolic, just normal anabolic on a cut and then at the end of the year I'll be doing it all the time on a bulk. Hey, great plan. Great plan. You really pay attention to the show. Are you in our forum? Can we put you in our forum?

That would be great. I'm not in your forum, but I attend one of the trainer webinar and I think one of it was about training over the holidays. So I try to schedule some deload weeks training over the holidays. Yeah. So I tried to schedule some deal of weeks in during the holidays so I could enjoy my time with my family. Love it. You're good. Let's put you in the forum. I'll put you in the forum, bro. I've Doug send you access to that. So we'll see you in there. Great plans. Great. Great plan this year too. You really laid it out. Nice. That's perfect. Good plan.

Thank you. Thank you. All right, man. Take it easy. All right. Bye. Thank you. That's, he listens to the show and that's exactly how I would, I mean, that's a great layout. You know, he's on point. Yeah. Yeah. The, you know, the part, uh, I felt like I didn't communicate it very well, um, more fumbly over here. Uh, but I think this is an area where people get hung up a bit with when a program says 10 reps or 15 reps, that they have to follow that exact rep. And it's like, so long as I stay close in that range, so if I'm like-

That's two or three reps, that's how I deal with it. It's just the third set. Yeah, and I just keep lowering the rep, to where I'm two reps short of failure, until I keep lowering the reps to where it's like, oh, now I'm- You're in a totally different phase. Yeah, now I'm in a different phase.

Now I'm in a five by five type of phase when I'm trying to be training for- So you gotta adjust the weight. So then I adjust the weight. Otherwise, I just keep shaving off the reps that way easier. Yeah, Thailand, one of the most beautiful countries I've ever visited, by the way. It is, it looks like another planet.

I'd love to travel there. Oh yeah, let's kill you. If you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump de Stefano, and Adam's at Mind Pump. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body,

dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can

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