Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2540: Ranking the Top 5 Ways to Build Your Chest

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

Ranking the Top 5 Techniques to Maximize Chest Gains and Growth Ranking the Top 5 Techniques to Maximize Chest Gains and Growth. (1:18) Fight the negative portion PROPERLY. (1:34) Drive hands together on all chest presses. (8:33) Focus on the stretch on all fly movements. (12:14) Rotate palms down for max squeeze. (15:03) When putting your chest workout together, go in this order: upper, middle, lower, isolation. (17:03) How would you rank them? (21:35) Questions: Does a big bench press equal a big chest? (24:12) How many sets per week should I do for the chest? (26:56) Should women worry about chest training? (31:10) Are pushups a good chest exercise? (34:08) Any chest training advice for those with shoulder pain? (36:41) Can you please compare dumbbells vs barbells vs machines for the chest? (39:40) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit State & Liberty for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Mention Mind Pump when you do a consultation to get the free $100 gift card + free outfit if you go with us! ** February Promotion: MAPS Anabolic & No B.S. 6-Pack ** We are offering them both for the low price of $59.99, which is a savings of $114! ** Mind Pump #2127: Bench Press Masterclass Mind Pump #1940: Chest Building Master Class Prime Your Shoulders with Handcuffs with Rotation on a Bench Fix Your Shoulder Pain (SHORT & LONG TERM FIX!!) | MIND PUMP Improve Your Shoulder Press with Shoulder Dislocates Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we talk about five techniques you can use to maximize chest gains and growth. Now this episode is brought to you by a sponsor, State and Liberty. This place is amazing. They make formal wear suits for people or guys who lift weights. You can take a suit off the rack, it'll fit you. You don't have to tailor it. It means if you've got wide shoulders, smaller waist, bigger legs, it fits and it's comfortable. By the way, if you go to

mpstateandiberty.com and you're getting married, talk about getting a consultation for your wedding. If you go with them, they'll give you a $100 gift card plus a free outfit. They are incredible. Outfit your whole team. Go to MPStateAndLiberty.com.

We also have a sale this month. Maps, Anabolic, and the NoBS Six Pack Formula combined together, both of them together, bundled, $59.99. You save over $114. If you're interested go to MAPSFebruary.com. That's MAPSFebruary.com. Alright, here comes the show. You want to maximize chest growth. You want to maximize the gains in your chest. There are techniques you can utilize in the gym to really make this happen. Today we're going to rank the top five techniques you can do to maximize chest gains and growth. I'll start with one. Fight the negative portion of chest exercise, especially

presses, properly. A lot of people don't realize that the pecs bring the elbows together. They bring the upper arms together So when you're lowering the bar fight that part of the rep fight the separation of the elbows to add more emphasis on the chest We get the editing team To edit the comment or the take a picture and edit the comment of the guy who did said nice chest chest. I love this because I think that you mean if obviously if you listen to the show for long enough you've heard me talk about that nobody focuses on the negative and I remember the first time reading how important the eccentric portion of an exercise is, right? The negative of an exercise,

how much more muscle you can build there, and that the protocol for that is like four seconds down. Any way you walk in a gym, you look at anybody doing it and nobody, everyone's just dropping the weight down, going back up. And so just controlling that movement or that portion of exercise has tremendous value in building muscle.

Yeah. When you look at a muscle contracting, it either contracts concentrically, it's shortened, so that's like flexing your bicep, eccentrically means it's contracting as it's lengthening. So that would be like opening my arm with resistance. And then isometric is just holding a flex. Well, when they study each contraction type, the negative portion of a rep sends the, the loudest muscle building signal.

It causes the most damage as well. Most damage for sure. But it also causes or sends the, the loudest growth signal. So a slow negative is important, but really emphasis here is on the technique. The chest, the pecs among most things, they do have a couple different things, but the main function of the pecs is called horizontal adduction of the humerus. So the humerus is the upper arm bone here, horizontal meaning here in this plane here, and what it's doing is bringing that upper arm,

the two upper arm bones, humerus together. So as I'm bench pressing you can see that it's pulling my elbows together at the top, as I lower if I can think of the action of the pecs and Fight that portion of the rep don't just lower it slowly but rather lower it slowly But also concentrate on that separating part of the elbow. It makes a big difference By the way, this isn't just based off of feel although you'll feel it more if you try it test it out for yourself just based off of feel, although you'll feel it more if you try it, test it out for yourself, but studies show that when people concentrate on a muscle and focus on its function, or even just think about, by the way, just think about the muscle that they're trying to work, they activate more muscle fibers, which is cool because bodybuilders have said this for a long time, like

Arnold used to say this, you know, when you're doing curls, I imagine my biceps growing, I think about them growing. Studies show that if you actually- You can really influence that. Yes. You can actually influence that by just really concentrating. Two, it provides that signal that your joints are safer. So as you increase that amount of recruitment and you can tense your muscles to that degree, that's another thing that's beneficial in terms of now

allowing you to produce more force the next proceeding reps. Absolutely. Now what is your take on how different people, because you'll see different people recommend elbow positioning when they're pressing. Some will have a tighter inward. You'll see some with more of a bodybuilding style

where they emphasize flaring the elbows. So what's your opinion on the different styles of pressing? Is it is one necessarily better than the other? Is one superior for building muscle? Is one better for getting a better lift? Like what's your thought on the different strategies as far as how to position your elbows in the press? If you're just trying to target the chest, because of the action of the chest, elbows flaring out is gonna do that.

However, you're gonna sacrifice the amount of force that you can generate by doing that. So power lifters don't bench that way, right? Power lifters don't bench with the elbows flared out. Their elbows are more tucked as they're pressing. So you'll be able to generate more force. Yeah, more leverage, more rise, that makes more sense. Yeah, but you're also using more leverage,

better leverage, you're using more of your anterior delts, the front of the delts, in that kind of a press. And the shoulder is in a safer position with the elbows slightly tucked. So it is a trade-off. That being said, if you're smart and you're not trying to both go for a max bench and flare out the elbows, right,

if you're doing this by feel and treating it the way a bodybuilder would, which is how can I really feel this in the chest, control the rep, fight that negative, bring the elbows together at the top, then you're gonna be okay, you know, of course, given that you have healthy shoulders and good mobility. So flaring them out is gonna activate the pecs more, but if you want a bigger bench.

For that intention that that makes sense Yes, well, so I this is kind of how I've approached it personally and with clients More so with myself though because this is we're starting to get into you know levels of like, you know This techniques and changing little things like this, right? So when I am when I'm lifting like singles, doubles, triples, and I'm going for max lift, so I'm going to toggle between the two of them. I'm going to, I'm going to- More like a power lifter. Yeah. I'm going to lift more like a power lifter to get my bench up higher than it's ever been, right? So to get strong enough to carry a load that my chest has

never done before and build that overall strength. And then I'm going to have phases of training where I'm focused on hypertrophy and I'm going to be doing eight to 12 reps and the weight's going to be significantly lighter than what that is. And then that's where I'm going to flare the elbows more like a body builder and really slow down the tempo and resist on the way down. And so I feel like getting comfortable with the heavy weight, doing it in the more power lifter traditional way to get heavy and loaded and strong that way and then when I lighten the load, putting myself,

what you would argue is maybe more at risk for your shoulder because you're flaring it but then better for the chest is how I would do that. Right, by the way, like machine makers, hammer strength was the first one to really, one of the first ones to really effectively do this with chest press machines, is understanding the action of the chest.

Back in the day, chest press machines, and there's still a lot of machines like this where the bar's fixed, just like a barbell, right, it's fixed. But hammer strength started angling the handle so that as you press, the hands would come together. Come together, yeah. Because of the action of the chest. This made hammer strength, chest press the handle so that as you press the hands would come together because of the action of the chest. This made hammer strength chest press still makes them.

It's smooth. Very popular because they work the pec the way that the pec needs to be worked. So when you're bench pressing, I mean, you can think, just move the bar up. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you want to maximize and utilize this technique, what you think as you're pressing is bring the elbows together and then let the elbows come apart and resist that on the way down. And what you'll find is you feel it more in the chest as you're doing the press. That's funny. You're talking about driving the hands together.

Like I actually pulled, like I focused on the grip, really gripping hard and kind of pulling apart on the way down and pushing inward kind of on the way in. But obviously they're fixed because you have a grip, but the intention of it was that. So that's the next technique, right? And it's funny because you just named one for strength, but we're talking about building, right? The chest. The next one is to drive the hands together on all chest presses. All right, what does this look like on a barbell? Because your hands are fixed. You grip the bar real tight and you almost like you're trying to slide your hands together. That's the the angle or that's the direction of tension as you're pressing and as you're lowering you also simultaneously gripping the bar and trying to bring

your hand don't actually bring your hands together but that's the direction of tension that'll also activate your chest even more. Now what you just said was the opposite rise you lower pull them, because you're maximizing force, which is a different conversation. So you know how you know something like this is so effective when a product is birthed because of it. Yes. Have you guys ever seen the sliding bar,

the bench bar that they have? Yeah, they did have to try it, it looks interesting. Yeah, I've never tried it. I've actually never used it before. It seems a little bit ridiculous because my hands are sliding back and forth while I'm trying to press, but the logic behind it makes sense because of this what you're talking about right now. Because of what you're telling what you're queuing the audience to do to maximize their their bench, this basically is incorporating that work side. By the way, when you try this on a barbell you're gonna lift less so you take your normal weight you know let's say you use 135 pounds on an

incline press or a bench press and 10 reps is usually what you can get and then you're like okay what I'm gonna do now is I'm gonna grip the bar and drive my hands together as I'm doing the reps you'll get like three less reps it creates that much more tension in the chest as you're pressing, and that's the point. The point of this is it's a technique that'll activate the chest more, create more tension, and make your normal exercise

more effective from a hypertrophy standpoint. By the way, dumbbells allow you to do this naturally, which is why a lot of people like dumbbells. A lot of dumbbells, for that reason. Yeah, when you're doing a chest press with dumbbells, you never keep the hands the same distance apart at the top. In fact, that's kind of weird, right? You tend to bring them together at the top,

which is kind of what we're talking about here, but from a barbell's perspective, creating that inward tension. I mean, the dumbbell also allows you to drop down in your shoulders' kind of natural pockets and position to come down to, which is why I've always been such a fan of teaching clients on dumbbells for that purpose. And then as they progress, then you could go more advanced.

Barbell, you could load. That's the huge benefit. But why the bar, because then one would argue, well then why don't you just use dumbbells all the time? Because dumbbells are better for what you're talking about, but the perk of the barbell is you're going to load. You're going to be able to load more than what you're going to be able to do. What's interesting too about that conversation, not that bodybuilders have all the answers,

but when it comes to hypertrophy, that's what they are. They're hypertrophy experts. And so I don't think people should train like bodybuilders necessarily, but I do think that there's a lot of clues in terms of technique and methods that most people can utilize. And what you tend to find with bodybuilders is they tend to navigate from barbells to dumbbells as they become more advanced. You'll notice this. Bodybuilders will utilize barbells as they're coming up and as they get bigger, they start

to move more to dumbbells because at some point you get so big and so strong, handling max weight, the wrist versus ward isn't very good. So then they go to dumbbells because of the fuller range of motion and bringing their hands together. Nonetheless, average person should use both because they're both valuable. Next is to really focus on the stretch on all fly movements. What we now are seeing in the data and studies is what old school bodybuilders have talked

about for a long time, where the stretch is really a great way to stimulate muscle growth for any muscle. What we're finding in the data is resistance, while a muscle is in a stretch position, produces the loudest muscle growth signal of all of the positions of the muscle. Far more than the squeeze or the mid-range, the stretch sends the loudest signal. Now to be clear, all the ranges of motion through the chest send a muscle growth signal, but when you're doing a fly where you can really emphasize the stretch, you're wasting the fly if you don't emphasize the stretch. Really play with that range of motion so

long as you keep yourself safe and that will make it so much more effective. Well it just seems to in that position it's the most vulnerable and so therefore you know your body is very protective of that range of motion and so it's like you know to build and strengthen that must have a cascading effect but but even to just focusing on end range a lot of times you know we don't go through full range of motion and some of these movements and you're missing out on end range. A lot of times, we don't go through full range of motion in some of these movements, and you're missing out on that extra 30-something percent potential of growth in your muscle.

Well, I think the two biggest takeaway from this point is that one, you do it, you incorporate flies, right? Because there's some people that you'll catch that just bench press all the time, or just dumbbell stuff, and they don't like it because flies is lighter, or it's harder, or don't do it, whatever. One, do it. Two, when you do it, don't shorten the range up

just so to go heavier, you know, emphasize the deepest range of motion of the exercise cause that's where the gold is at, right? Cause that's the other, so one, I see some kids skip it, not doing flies, so don't do that. Make sure you incorporate it. And then the other mistake I see is the, you know, shortening the range up just so they can grab

heavier dumbbells because they can- Or put the weights down. They'll get lighter, yeah, get full range. Yes, right, so those are the two big takeaways from that fly. I mean, the whole point of a fly, in my opinion, I think there's a few points to it, few valuable aspects of a fly.

One of them is help, you know, connect to the chest, but that's a different conversation. The biggest benefit, in my opinion, is the stretch, because nothing stretches the chest like a fly. One of them is help connect to the chest, but that's a different conversation. The biggest benefit in my opinion is the stretch because nothing stretches the chest like a fly. Presses don't really stretch the chest as effectively. You kind of get limited by the shoulder. The angle is so much more effective in terms of stretch position or stretch on the peck with a fly. So if you're going to do flies and you don't challenge the stretch, it's like, why do the fly? You might as well stick to pressing.

It doesn't make any sense. So go and get that stretch. And in my opinion, sit in the stretch for a good two or three seconds. Like when you're doing your dumbbell fly or your cable fly, whatever, get in that stretch, hold for two or three seconds, then come together, watch what happens. Watch what happens to your progress. Next up, this one's one of my favorites because it's counter to what a lot of people believe

and we'll explain why. If you're going to rotate your hands on a fly movement, okay, the way that you should rotate your hands to activate the chest more is to rotate your palms down. Yeah, internal rotation. Is to bring the index finger and thumb together, not bring the pinky together.

So when you look at where the pec attaches in the humerus, because it attaches a certain point, if you want full contraction, you actually internally rotate the humerus to make that happen, not externally rotate. Now you'd see some people will do the external rotation thing and bring the pinkies together. It's not giving you more of a chest squeeze.

What you're doing is you're pushing your pecs with your triceps. That's what you're doing. At the top. I'm so glad you said that because some guys will be like, oh I feel it more from that. What you feel is you feel your biceps are squeezing your tits together. That's what you feel. You're not contracting better than everybody. I mean I always know when someone's either an advanced lifter or they understand biomechanics.

When I see a young guy doing chest flies and he's internally rotating, because you rarely see that. You either see a fixed position. Which is fine. Yeah, totally fine. Or you see the pinkies together, especially on the dumbbells. You'd see guys doing that a lot. But every once in a while you might catch somebody do that. I'm like, oh, OK, he's either one advanced or, you know.

And test this out, what you'll feel when you're doing this, like with cables, like do cables, and as you come together, bring the thumb and next finger, you'll feel more, especially across the upper chest, activation of the pecs, because that's where you're getting more of those muscle fibers from that rotation. Now it's a small technique, but again,

we're talking about techniques that you can use in the gym to maximize growth. And if you're already doing flies, you're already doing cable X, even a machine, for example, you know, a lot of machines, the pec deck machines will have the handles like this. Sometimes they'll give you the option to grab a top handle.

Yeah. Um, try that and see what happens when you face your palms down. It's actually a greater, uh, connection to the pecs. Lastly, when you're putting together your chest workout, the order that tends to develop the most balanced, well-developed chest goes like this. Go upper chest exercise, mid-chest exercise. If you're going to do a lower chest exercise, here's where you put it, and then do your isolation. I think that

order is great. I love this, and I love talking about it because I actually don't think it's isolation. I think that order's great. I love this and I love talking about it because I actually don't think it's popular. I think the most common order is to do something that's middle first and then somebody goes to upper or even upper being third. And I always loved starting with my incline bench. And I think this is just because most people

have a much stronger flat bench and so they- And they don't want to go lighter on that. And they don't want to have to go lighter on that. But I've made the case on here many times that I think for overall chest development that the incline chest is already, the incline press is already superior. And if I want to get good at that,

I want the most energy towards that. We've talked about this before. You want to get good at an exercise, you put it at the front of your workout. This is actually probably a small tip that can make a big difference in a lot of listeners right now. It's just how many of you have ever ordered your chest in this order where you start with incline? Just go start with incline for a while and I bet you see improvements just by doing that because

most people use most of their gas for flat bench so they can say they lifted more weight when you'll get more value. I remember you telling us when we first met, you said there was a point in your lifting career, and I don't know if it's when you became pro or before you became a pro, where your goal was to get your incline as strong as your flat. Yeah.

And you saw huge changes. Huge, huge. That was on my road to pro, so it was when competing, when I was already competing and on the road to getting my pro card, and that was just kind of, it was like a year long goal of putting a lot of emphasis on that, and it was the most developed my chest had ever been, and they were neck and neck.

I still had a little bit better. Leverage wise, biomechanically, you have it flat, you should be able to. Yeah, yeah, so I still, yeah, I could still squeeze out a little bit, but it was close. I was able to move 315 on incline, and so I was probably doing 350, 375 on flat at that time. But close, I mean, very rarely do you see guys that close,

and I was that close, so it made a huge difference. A good, by the way, good exercises for this order would be like an incline barbell press, a flat barbell press, a dip. I love dips for lower chest, especially for that range of motion, same for you. And then isolation would be either a flat fly or a cable fly, I think is great.

I know some people like decline bench. I really don't like decline bench. Yeah, if you compare it to dips, it just doesn't come close. It feels weird, yeah, it just doesn't come close. It's awful. It's weird. Yeah, it's just not as. It's like, it's the least beneficial part of the dip. So what makes a dip so good, okay, is how deep you are.

And we just talked about the benefits of, you know, the muscle, growing the muscle from the stretch position. The dip gives you a muscle from the stretch position, the dip gives you a, a very good, deep stretch position on the chest, better than any other press does. So that's what makes it so great. It's like a press, but you're in that position on that dip bar. It actually makes it almost feel like a stretch from a fly. That's why it's so great. And you can load it so you can put weight on it. So it's awesome. If you do a decline bench press, which a lot of young guys love to do, it's the worst, it's the worst part of the dip. It's the end. So it's like you're not even getting it. You're hitting at the bottom.

It's funny you guys ordered it this way because intuitively I did exactly that. I did like the incline bench, the flat bench and then I did like ring dips for really low. And so I'm getting the stretch but I'm also getting that low position. Yeah. And you missed that on a I'm not a fan. I don't is there anybody that's a big fan of the decline bench. It's become less popular thankfully But back in the day it was really popular. It was really popular because you could load it. Most guys that could bench two plates could do three plates on decline And so you love to be able to put way more weight than you could do on a flat bench on the decline

But as far as the benefit it doesn't even come close to. The decline machine presses are still popular because you can load the hell out of them. The ones where you're leaning back and you're doing this real short range of motion. Yeah. Not a fan. Dips if you flare elbows out and lean forward and get that stretch. So much more stretch. I mean it's a it's a great exercise for the chest. Of course there's a way to do it for shoulders and for triceps mean it's a great exercise for the chest. Of course there's a way to do it for shoulders or for triceps but it's a great one. But yeah in this comp, in this order, this is a really good order to give you nice well developed pecs. Now okay so you've gone through the five right now. If we had to

rank them as like the number one tip, then two, then three on here, how would you order these? Number one would have been the last one for me. Upper, middle, lower, isolation. I think that would be the most important one out of all of them. Next, I would say would be the stretch. On fly movements. Third would be fight the negative,

and fourth would be drive hands together, and then rotating the palms would be last. Shit, I was hoping we would argue. I know. We all the same? Yeah, I mean, to me, I just said it when we were talking that I bet most people listening to this will get a huge benefit just by making incline bench

their first thing. Because it's just not common. It's not common and it'll give you the biggest bang for your buck. So I definitely agree with that. And then the next, the number two you said is the- Negative portion. The negative portion, which 100%. I think I said I was number three. agree with that and then the next the number two you said is the negative portion which a hundred percent they says number three also also the argument

I make on this podcast all the time is yeah nobody does slow negative yeah slow negative concentrate on resisting it like so that's that's easy one and two the other ones are probably I like the stretch for three I did you know focusing on the stretch driving the hands together would be four, and then five would be rotating the palms down. That's that type of thing. You guys agree? Yeah, I can't. I wanted to have beef with you about it,

but I don't, I think that's it. I thought at first you put the negative. Well, to be honest with you, look, here's the deal. When we all agree, that's because it's most true, right? When we debate, there's a lot of nuance, but I think with these ones, it's pretty clear what the biggest impact's gonna be. Well, it's also, we can't help but think of our experience,

and you've also ordered them, you're thinking of like, 100 people you've trained that wanna build a chest, like what are the areas where you've been able to impact them? Yeah, maximize their. Yeah, like I've never had someone who's like, Adam, I just can't grow my chest. I'm like, oh, we just got to internally rotate.

Yeah, you just got to squeeze. We just got to internally rotate those hands. They're like, dude. That's never happened. 50 more pounds, dude. But I have got a client who I go, how often you incline? They're like, oh, I don't really incline that much. And I'm like, OK, we're going to start inclining.

They're like, holy shit, it blows your mind, right? So I think that's why we're all in agreeance, is everybody's thinking the same thing, is like, okay, I've never had anybody who I've done the internal rotation, or what was the other one that was probably our last, what was our fourth? The drive hands together?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, that's a cool cue, but again- So one and two are good. That's a technique. Yeah, one and two are game changers for the listener right now. So if one and two you're not doing, you implementing that, and I guarantee you, within months you'll see a difference in your chest.

Got some questions here. The first one, does a big bench press equal a big chest? Not necessarily. No, I'm evidence of that. You know, when I was younger, I focused so much on, I like, look, I like muscle development, but I like strength more. It's just more exciting to me. And so for most of my lifting career, up until I would say my mid to late 30s,

it was all about strength. How much can I bench press? And I have really strong triceps and shoulders, especially triceps. And I got my bench press significant and shoulders, especially triceps. And I got my bench press significant, I got it up there. I had a 375 or 365 at one point, definitely over 300 pounds, and my chest always lagged. It wasn't until I decided later on in my lifting career as a full on grown adult, where I changed my technique and I moved away from maximizing leverage and weight to feeling the chest.

And the best chest development I ever got throughout all my lifting has happened in the back half in the far back half I'd say the last quarter of the time I've been working out. Well I mean the other best way to explain this or show this as an example without picking on yourself is look at the the greatest power lifters that exist in the bench and compare him to your average bodybuilder Yeah, I mean you're you're your best power lifter in chess. He's gonna have a chest Like you don't put a thousand pounds up and don't build someone's own Yeah, but I mean it's nothing compared to any pro bodybuilder

I got if you're a if you're a pro bodybuilder your chest development I guarantee is better than the best benchers in the game. It won't hurt though. Having a good bench won't hurt you. No, no. No, no. I think especially in the first three years of training, it's important.

No, I agree. But it doesn't necessarily equate to a big chest. No, especially because it's such a complex lift. And the way you drive through the, with your feet in the ground, you tuck your elbows, keep your chest real high, maximize leverage. Um, you could really take- I've seen some wiry guys put up some numbers. That always blows my mind, but yeah, there's definitely a lot more to building strength. I think sometimes, you know,

really building size and hypertrophy is a kind of different pursuit. I'm the opposite of you Sal, like I didn't care about the strength thing. And I actually, and I, and my chest was one of my weakest points. I had, I talked about this, I had an uneven chest. I was very weak. If you've heard me tell stories of when I first started in high school and my buddies, one, it was three guys, two of them spotting me, one guy pushing my shoulder down. I was a mess, right?

Couldn't even put a plate up. Um, and I, I built a pretty good chest, uh, without having to lift crazy weight. I got up to lifting weight later on where I could bench decent, but I was never a really strong bench presser and yet developed a pretty good bench through a lot of the techniques that we're talking about. How many sets per week should I do for chest? You know the studies on this are quite interesting. It's probably 12 to 20. About 12 to 20 per week. Now does that mean less than that's not going to grow your chest? No. A lot of people, six sets a week, you'll get great chest development, especially the first few years of lifting if you're consistent

with it and you have good workout programming. Also, there's a lot of people that 12 sets is too much. You're going to over train, you're burnt out because you're stressing your life, your diet isn't great, or you just haven't trained in a long time. And then there's some people where they go up, upwards of 30 sets or 40 sets per week, but most people is probably around, I would say between nine to 12 is probably gonna cover

like 85%, what do you guys think? Yeah, this is a really interesting conversation because I've seen such a wide spectrum on this and then I have my own experience too that's also evolved and changed. What I mean by that is like there's periods of time where I know I was doing 25, 30 sets of chest before and my volume of chest workouts right now is hardly anything. Now what's cool is that once you've built a really solid base of a chest and strength, the amount to keep that. Like so for me to maintain it, you go way down.

Oh, way down, way, way down. Now remember what it took to build it? Yeah, yeah. Building is a different story. Yeah, it took, it felt like it took so much to build it. And so you tend to go through, like, so there's like, that's what I meant by there's this wide range. It's like, it felt like I needed to do so much volume

when I was younger. We need all that context to really answer that question, I would think. So yeah, in terms of like where they're currently at. Where are you at in your career right now? Yeah, yeah, how much of a beginner are you? How much time under the iron have you had before? And like, what are you currently doing?

And then we can kind of craft and alter it from there in terms of better diagnosis. But yeah, because sometimes it's just a change of format. You can get a lot of output in terms of changing the tempo or changing the acute variables around. What I will say though, and I like Sal's answer of most people to be like this nine to 12, is what I can tell you is a mistake.

Somebody listening right now that thinks they're the person who needs 25 sets probably also is doing 25 sets of a bunch of other things too. And they're in a plateau because they're applying so much volume to everything and they're not seeing. They just wanna keep adding on top of the volume. Yes, and so subtracting. So be careful if you're that person who thinks

you need 25 sets to just to build a chest at all and you're doing 25 sets of almost everything because I fell into that mess too of thinking just more and more and more and more of everything. And honestly, most people, your first probably five years of lifting, nine to 12, maybe 15, is first probably five years of lifting, nine to 12,

maybe 15 is going to build one hell of a chest, especially if you, if you break those sets up, right? I think 15 done over three days is far better than 15 in one workout for this situation too. So, uh, I would want to know more information to be sure, but just be careful because I think a lot of time there's other variables that make people think they need a certain amount when they don't really. I'll say the average person right now who's you know kind of getting started otherwise healthy for the next three years if you

just did six to nine sets per week they know three sets twice a week or three sets three days a week for your chest you could progressively progress pretty consistently for at least a couple years without having to add any more. Don't get caught in the trap of, oh this is working, more is gonna work better. That almost always isn't the case. Especially Sal, okay if you know that all the research points to the best way to progressively overload is volume over time right as far as building muscle, you naturally do that. Just because you're stronger.

Yeah. Just because you're stronger. So if you're just doing six to nine, like you're saying, and I'm getting stronger volumes, going up volumes already organically going up, I don't need to add another set on top of that. I'm going to ride that wave as long as I can until is that six to nine sets. Makes a plateau and I'm no longer anymore. And I've peaked strength say for months.

Okay. Now maybe we'll add a set or two and then and then keep doing that don't rush right away to keep adding sets like probably a lot of kids do should women worry about chest training yeah you know it's interesting about this I see it women tell me this all the time like I don't want to work out my chest I don't care about developing my chest first off there's function there it's a muscle it's important for the health of the shoulder girdle it's important for overall you know know, just health.

But you know, developing your pecs, you're not going to get these massive, like women in period, end of story, unless you're like a pro bodybuilder with very rare genetics and on steroids, you're not going to get these massive peck muscles. But if you do train your chest, what you'll find is it'll give you, it'll lift the breast a little bit. Yeah. And it'll actually make you look better. Yeah. I've never had a woman I've trained, train chest and say I don't like the way it looks. They almost all say this looks great. So I never skipped chest training

with female clients. I mean I have. I don't ever recommend it and I won't intentionally go program that unless somebody asks me or say they don't want to. I've had a lot of women before that have breast augmentation. That's the only case, yeah. Sometimes that can cause problems. Well, not only that, but also here's the logic behind that. We're already in this closed position of forward shoulders, forward head, and then you also get breast implants, and so that kind of tightens and brings everything forward.

One of the things that doctors, that you're in, anyone who's ever had somebody who's gone through that surgery, you're in this kind of rolled position for a good six weeks or so after that surgery. And then you have to slowly work those muscles in your back. And very few girls I've met do the work necessary to get their posture back to us. Those of them stay rolled forward. I've met a lot of girls that end up doing breast implants and they have yeah they have this rolled shoulder because they didn't put the kind of and it should be physical therapy they don't

they don't really prescribe it but they should go through it. What's happening there isn't what a lot of them say so it's not that you're tightening the chest and causing your shoulders roll forward an exercise muscle properly through full range of motion will actually give you more range of motion. So it's not gonna tighten, but what happens when you have under the muscle implants, contracting the pecs really hard can move the implant and cause the capsule where the implant sits inside

to become wider. And so what some women get with under the muscle implants is if they're really benching heavy and hard over time is they'll go to lift and their implants will move. They shift, and that's the risk. That's the risk. I've always looked at it as it's less about the chest, it's more about the weakening of the upper back.

So it's like I'm not worried about chest pressing that client because I'm worried that it's gonna shorten up or tighten their chest more. It's gonna keep their back strong. I want their back strong. So the amount of volume that I probably would have put, say, let's say for a male client towards their chest, I just add that volume to their upper back to try and get them into optimal

posture. Yeah. So that's kind of the thought process. And then if I get them there, then I'm like, hey, we can include chest or if they don't care that I don't care, but that's the only case. But I would never just not do that with somebody unless they specifically asked or had a situation like that. Are push-ups a good chest exercise? Yeah they're not bad they're not the greatest chest developing exercise but they're not they're not you know what they're good for they're good for trigger sessions volume yeah

getting a little pump so what I mean by that is not too damaging oh yeah days off in between, like and you wanna add more volume to your chest. Let's say you could rep out 50 pushups all at once. Do 10 pushups three times a day, that's it. 10, 15, three times a day. Get a little bit of a pump, add that to your routine, watch what happens.

I love them a lot more than I used to. And I think that's, and it might be this might be me getting older or something, I don't know. Movement. It's like we lack movement so much. And you know, obviously I would love my clients and myself to get into my garage and get a full lift every single time.

But it's like sometimes just like between like a commercial watching the Super Bowl the other day and just like, you know, just get get down there mess around with my son and bust out 25 push-ups with that It's like just so good and if you can create those habits as with your clients to do that, man I just think that there's tremendous value and it's just a signaler. Yeah Yeah, it's a great little tool that you can just and I do have my son all the time We get competitive with it and we just drop and get, get pushups in and it's like, well, let's say it's not too damaging. You could really build volume with that quickly.

Those numbers go up and real quick exciting for new, you know, new people to fitness because it's like, you see that strength gain almost immediately. It's it. And it is, it's so simple to get the average person to just kind of do it. It reminds me of kind of how we, the way we communicate walking today versus how we used to like if you ask young trainer Me too. I mean like I'm fucking push-ups aren't gonna do shit. You know, we build a chest you need to load you know, I would be like that but what I think now it's like it's such a

Easy way to get somebody into moving and doing active stuff And so walking and push-ups and bodyweight squat, like man, I'm so, I love that. And I wish. If you had a desk job and every other hour, you did a body weight exercise for three minutes, like how exceptionally. I mean, I wish our culture was better about this. Like I wish we all grew up where like teachers did it with school and like, it's just like a thing

that everybody did. Like can you imagine if like. All right, get up, do some pushups, calisthenics. Everybody like just did that before school. Like can you imagine if like, Yeah, just like you just, everybody, everybody like just did that before school in the middle of the day and like, it was just, I mean, it would just be so good for us to do that. And so for those reasons, I'm a huge fan for it.

In the pursuit of, I'm trying to build the most ultimate chest, like just doing that, we're gonna need some more stuff, but I mean, it's good for you. Any chest training advice for those with shoulder pain? Yeah, you know, if you work on shoulder mobility and stability, you should be able to get to the point where you can do pretty much any chest exercise.

Common areas to look at are, is your mid-back strong? Are you able to pin your shoulders down and back as you're bench pressing? Do you have strong stabilizers? We often refer to some of the stabilizers like the rotator cuff, right? The muscles that attach to the rotator cuff. Do you, are those, you know, your supraspinatus, infraspinatus muscles, are those strong enough to stabilize your arm while you're pressing?

Does your scapula move freely with your upper arm or is it kind of stay pinned down or out? Like shoulder mobility movements, like handcuffs with rotation is great, wall circles are really, really good, stick dislocates are really good. All of that are great ways to really improve. I mean, I have almost 100% record with people coming, the times when it's difficult,

when people have like a real limitation, like I had this removed or this bone was, you know, whatever, resected. But I have almost 100% record with clients who had, oh, I can't bench because of shoulder pain, and we would, you know, so long as nothing was torn, I was able to get to the bench. A lot of it is mobility related.

In terms of stability and really creating that, you know, your muscles responding to force and keeping them in place and, um, you know, to, to go through and the drills and make sure, yeah, you're not protracting too much in your lift cause that's going to be problematic. You're going to end up with impingement. Um, and you know, just in terms of setting yourself up correctly to, uh, and getting a little more retraction there, like before performing a heavy lift.

Like all these things matter because now the force can evenly distribute and it's not gonna stay in those concentrated areas where you're gonna get pain. I'm so glad this was a question because I feel so passionate about this that if I could go back and do this episode, this goes number three. Oh yeah. I think that even if you don't have shoulder pain, reinforcing the joint

stability in your shoulders is such a limiting factor for the average gym bro who wants to build his chest that this goes number three for me. You hit a wall like predictably. Yes and I wish somebody would have told me that so if I could go back and redo this episode this makes it to the top five points and it goes number three for me. Like I literally think right now if you're listening and you don't put any attention towards shoulder mobility and stability, same thing, right? If you don't put any emphasis there,

you start incorporating that, watch your bench go up 10, 15 pounds by itself. So I think that this is that important. Even shoulder pain, you have to. I mean, that's like a no brainer, but even if you don't have shoulder pain and you're listening to this. It will limit you if you don't focus on it.

Yes, you gotta do exactly. You get strong enough. You know what's funny? If you don't have shoulder pain now, you eventually will if you don't put that work in as you get stronger in your chest. So it may as well start practicing it now because you'll reap the benefits from it

and you'll need to no matter what down the road. Can you please compare dumbbells versus barbells versus machines for chest? Yeah, so you know, barbells are great for a lot of load. There's a balance component involved which means some stability is involved. Dumbbells even more so than barbells and they also have a greater range of motion. Machines are good for isolating, concentrating and creating less damage. Like a chest press on a machine to failure is gonna cause less or require less recovery than with a barbell or a dumbbell.

But you know, when people ask this question, it's like versus, versus, versus, but really it's like use them all. Most lifters are probably better off, 80% of workouts are going to be free weights, 20% machines. This can change depending on the lifter, but they're all good. There's no reason why you have to pick just one. I mean, I think barbells and dumbbells should be the the cornerstone of your chest workouts and then machines, great, like I think you broke it down good with a 20%, 20% as machines. And the way I always liked incorporating machines was based off of like,

so we talked a little bit about ideally how you broke your chest up, right? In the nine to 12 sets over three days, right? The way I use machines is let's say I went a little too hard on Monday and Wednesday on my chest, Friday, I might do machines because I'm still recovering. So that's a perfect example of like how, and let me tell you, you lift long enough you're going to overreach. You're going to have time or you're going to think that that wasn't that damaging and it's going to do more damage than you expect it. And so I love incorporating machines when my chest is still feels like it's recovering from the heavy dumbbell or barbell work that I've done before. Great time to slide in machine work and so I think that organically

just kind of makes 20% when you when you when you program it like that. 100% how I used to do it. Look if you like the show come find us on Instagram. Justin is that mind pump Justin I'm at mind pump to Stefan Oh and Adam's at mind pump Adam. Thank you for listening to mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maths performance, and maths aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically

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