Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 256: How Bodybuilding MADE Fitness

Episode Date: March 17, 2016

Whether you like bodybuilding or not it has strongly influenced and shaped the fitness world. Sal, Adam & Justin discuss how bodybuilding and bodybuilders, through trial and error and sometimes downright dangerous experimentation, have evolved how everyone trains. Please subscribe, rate and review this show! Learn more about Mind Pump at www.mindpumpmedia.com

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. So... Oh, she said, If I got a little story for you, What you thought was your daddy, was but a fucking angel voice of an angel. Hey, can you do us a favor, dude?

And of a demon, a rock demon. I don't like that. I don't like that you don't introduce us anymore because I'm a yeah, people are so you just went first. Why don't you just introduce us by our Instagram name, seeing this how welcome to mind pump. Easier that way. You're listening to Mind Pump Sal.

You're listening to Mind Pump Adam. Woo, woo. And the beautiful voice that you heard earlier was Mind Pump Justin. Thank you. Those also incidentally happen to be our Instagram tags. You can find us at Instagram at Mind Pump. We keep it simple.

We keep it simple. Mind Pup Radio. Was that, oh, is that Mind Pump? He did even do it. He fucked that up. Way to go. Damn it. simple. Mine, Pup Radio. Was that, oh is that mine, he did even, he fucked that up. Way to go. Damn it. Way to go. That was good. That was good.

That was all right. Scratch that, Doug, let's do that over again. Reverse. Reverse. Dude, everybody's tired. I know why I'm tired. I feel fantastic. You feel good. I felt fantastical.

I'm tired, dude. I'm tired, bro. My daughter is in ear infection and take her to the doctor today. My poor little girl. Everybody's been having this cold. Like my kids have had this cold too. Right now.

Yeah, see, sucks. You know what I realized though? Keep me up. So check this out. Here's a little parenting tip. When you explain things to your kids, like when you break break them down because I think sometimes I know this happens for me I I forget that they're also like like little humans that they can understand Shins and I just kind of tell it like I just give them a stupid answer like, you know my ear hurts

Okay, why is it hurt because you're sick, you know But I broke it down for it. I said this is what happens to the ear and it gets inflamed and there's an infection And the swelling causes pain. And when you scream, you're causing more blood to rush to that area and it's going to make that ear hurt even more because it's going to throb more and she stops screaming. And she's like, she knew it had made the word. No, you just got to explain it. You just got to explain it to them.

You know what I mean? It works better than beatings. Beatings are not nearly as effective. Both methods. Although that's second though, right? Second. Yeah, that doesn't work. First try to talk some sense of,

if not beat some sense of the beat. The beatings will begin. Justin, you're tired too, how about I? I'm tired. He's got red eyes over there, dude. You know, my son's been like, he's like, night terrors too. So he'll my son's been like, he has like night terrors too, so he'll come up and just like find his way into our bed.

And I'm just like, huh? Huh? And then I freak out and then I will keep waking up because he like punches me and kicks me and stuff. Oh, man, important. Yeah, but it's like what are you gonna do? So, so trip off this, a friend of mine used to give her kid, because he has allergies, lots of allergies.

So sometimes you'd have to give him benedral, and which is pretty safe for kids, for allergies. Anyhow, he would get night terrors, and she realized she figured out it was the benedral that was causing it, and it wasn't the benedral, it was the die. It was the die that was in benedral. He would get this weird reaction,

and not you would get night terrors because of it. And you couldn't consult a kid for like 20 minutes. Yeah. So I don't know, maybe look at that. Yeah, it's really weird. Well, I mean, I'm wondering if that was a kid too. Oh, yeah. So genetic thing, yeah.

Unfortunately. So what's that like? Do you remember when you were kid? Well, you guys, I don't remember what it's like, but I know seeing it, seeing my son. It's just wake up screaming. You just wake, and he can't like form words or anything. It's like totally weird He'll stare off into wall somewhere and I'm like It's over there man

You have a scary house too though you got kind of a scary house for me. It's scary We're trying to say it's got No, no, no, no, he lives Justin's house Justin has this It's not a rock music you play He's got, no, no, no, no, he lives Justin's house. Justin has this house. It's not a rock music you play. I can't extract you the deepest. Summon it with my voice. He's got this big house out in the red woods, right?

Out in the, like your total, you know, there's no, even his neighbors, you can't like see their door. No one's really outside and it's like, it's really dark. Yeah, it's very dark. It's like, it's like, you feel like you're going into a cabin So you're legit in the woods. Oh, yeah, he's legit He has like a redwood tree growing through his fucking dad. I'm not a flannel poser, bro Well, okay, I got a real question for you. I mean, so you live in the woods right your house is there serious question

How yes, have you pooped in the woods nearby your house? Of course, okay? That's that's real woods Yeah, and that's that's basically the direction. If you're wrong, too, your your kids live on the opposite floor of the house than you do, too, right? Yeah, there in the bottom. There you go. So that he puts his kids in the dungeon, right? So there's kids living the dungeon. So anytime we walk around, you know, it's like, yeah, like all kinds of no less scary. Fuck, bro. No, you're right. I'm like a grown ass man. I go there. I'm a little scared. We

want before we went out to Santa Cruz when we're heading out to, you know, last Cruz, when we were heading out to last that weekend, when we were writing maps black, we stopped at his house first. And I was like, I was standing close to him as we were walking up to the house. It was, yeah, I do. I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do,

I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I I'm scared to death. Yeah. Well, it reminds me when I was the same age. I was between eight and 10 years old. We had this house out in the country. And we had the house had a pool house that was attached to this. And the pool house was completely disconnected as far as being able to get into the regular

house without walking outside and then you get to go over to the front door. So you couldn't just go to the pool house through the other house. You actually had to go outside to go into the separate. It's a separate thing. Yeah, it's separate, right? I got that. And it was huge. It was bigger than a master bedroom. We had I fit two queen beds in there, a little TV set up at my own bathroom and shower out there. And my parents let me have that. Well, long story short, I ended up living in the living room with a house because I was just too scared to be out there as a kid. We lived on the cut behind us, literally.

Oh, you were like nine. Yeah, well yeah, that is scary. And there was a forest behind me. I had a pool in front of the house and we lived up on top of this. Yeah, because if it was like a few years later when you were like 12, 13, you would have been in there jerking off all the time.

Jesus, you really did. You're so great. Yeah, no, there was something I had in high school. It would have been the most awkward thing ever. I was curious to see her back. You know, I'm in like fourth, sixth grade, that age, that age. That's a scary. Yeah, I'm scared.

And I look back now, I'm like, man, what a dummy I was. Dude, I used to get these weird dreams. So I've been able to lucid dreams since I was a child. Do you guys know what lucid dreaming is? You're like half awake or what? No, it's when you can control your dream. So you're in your dream and you recognize that it's a dream while you're dreaming and you're like,

oh, fuck, I'm dreaming, I can do whatever I want. So I've done this. That's called a Lucid dream. I believe, is that the term, Doug? Am I saying this correctly? I don't know. God damn it. I can't vouch for that one. I always look into Doug for what I said. I think that's called a hallucination. No, yeah. No, it's called Lucid dreaming. I'm almost positive. I'm gonna look for that one. I always look into Doug for what I said. I think that's called a hallucination.

No, it's called lucid dreaming. I'm almost positive. I'm gonna look it up here just because I don't want people to be happy. We'll just say it is. So what happened when I was a kid, yeah, that's the one. When I was a child, I'd get these scary nightmares, right? It freaked me out.

And my mom kept telling me, you know, when you're in your dream, you know, pinch yourself and it'll remind you that you're dreaming. Remember, you guys remember that, right when your kid pinch yourself, I'm not dreaming. It's like a whole set of like seeing that in a movie. So sticking your making this up. No, dude, I swore loose a dream. He's a real thing. No, I will, I will, I do this. Okay. So as an adult, pinch yourself. No, scary dreams now are no longer scary because in a dream that even goes that direction Yeah, immediately assume. Yeah, I write away. No, it's a dream and then I take control of it

Then I become a badass. Yeah, I'm saying it then I do some cool. Yeah, so I would have these scary ass dreams You don't know and then no and so I would pinch myself like turning it sexual Hold on a second hold on a second. That happened that's it weird. That's exactly what I do every time Yeah, I'm a kid. I pinched myself. I don't feel it. I'm like, oh my god I'm dreaming. Now what? The monster's still there. So then what I would do is I would have sex. I'm gonna bang the monster No, that was a kid. That was a fucking child. He grossed bastard. I don't know. So then I would jump off the cliff in my dream And I'd wake up as soon as they hit the ground I wake up And so I did this for a long time and learn how to control it and then eventually it built up to the point where I could learn how to fly

And it goes. So now when I have a dream half the time I know I'm built up to the point where I could learn how to fly. And so now when I have a dream, half the time, I know I'm a superhero in your dreams. And I could do whatever I want. The worst dream ever is when you're running away from something, right? When you can't run and it's like super slow. Oh yeah, super slow. Super slow, though.

The worst I had, like all these like crazy, I don't even know what they were. They had to be some kind of monster demon things like up in the trees. And like they kept like looking in at the house and I was like trying to hide. I went outside and was gonna run and then they would jump from tree to tree

and the kit following me. And I didn't know how to get away from them. And it's just like the whole dream was like that. I just kept running. I'm like, I don't. I have crazy dreams when I do dream. Cause I don't normally dream.

Normally when I smoke before bed, it actually shuts that off. If I dream at all, it's after I woke up in the middle of the night and then I go back to bed and then I have these just crazy graphic dreams. Like the opposite, I go from not dream at all to like crazy graphic over the top dreams, but I try not to share it with my girl

because my girl's so into them. She's like, she interprets the whole thing. This is what this means. We have a dream book and she wants, oh, you know, and heaven forbid, I have something going on in my dream and it she's like, she interprets the whole thing. We have a bloat, this means. Oh, we have a dream book and she wants, oh, you know, and heaven forbid, I have something going on in my dream and they're just like, oh,

then she wants to be like, so what's happening to you right now? It's going on at work. You're telling me, I'm like, oh, I don't share my dreams anymore with you. There is a time I share your dreams with you, we're thinking all analytical with it to get dive into what it's really doing on with me.

They do, they tend to reflect how you feel. So like the running away and you can't run fast enough. Yeah, I know, there's that's indicative of like you have problems, you can't get away from them, you can't move, the problems are looming. Or you guys ever ever dream where you look in the mirror and like your teeth are falling out, your skin's coming off or something like that,

you ever have that? I've never had that, but I know that's a common one. I've had that, right? Or I'm like looking at the mirror and my teeth keep falling out like what the fuck? A lot of naked dreams, what does that mean? No, I've had that you're being exposed like I'm outside Yeah, no, that's your expose and no, no, no, he's okay I have a dream book and I've actually gone through a lot of it so a lot of stuff you're saying right now

It's totally off. Yes, because I can't no one cuz I know I'm calling bullshit This goes into his wizard you know category This is and I'm listening to him right now It's like they actually the, the dreams do mean stuff, but they, nine times at a 10, they mean totally opposite of what you think they would mean. Like, you being on a sinking boat is nothing like what you would be logical.

It is not logical. The naked, there is a very common dream is to, like, when he was a kid, he used to show up and I would be naked. It's cool. I get to school, mom would drop you. People would applaud for me. Yeah, you know, that's all and I would be naked. It's cool. I'd get this cool, mom would drop you. People would applaud for me. Yeah, you know, that's all.

I would be naked and you could run away. So they do have meaning, but it's not like you can't get, it actually has, a lot of times it has like a financial meaning. You're stressed about finances in your life right now or something like that, or you have a person in your life that you're arguing with or you're not on good terms with, it reflects that. It could, you know what I'm saying? So nine times at a 10, what you think the dream would correlate to

when you look it up in the book, it's normally like something. And I know somebody's listening right now who's all into the shit. So that's why I just want to come make correct sound. I asked for a historical fine. I'm almost positive that I've read that before. Yeah, almost positive. Exactly. I'm usually almost positive. Just above almost positive is just above. I don't know shit about this. It's almost no more. Of course shoes. That's an angry name. My dad used to give me onto me whenever I use that term almost positive. What the fuck does that mean almost positive? What does that mean? That's so contradictory. Sometimes I use percentages too. I'm like 88% sure that that's what I People are scratching head like well, that's pretty calm. That's pretty good. Yeah, I mean would you fucking play those odds? I'd play those on

So do you guys watch the wasn't there show something that just went on the men's classics? There you go. That's the first the very first men's we miss that you wanted to go down and see that on I did because our boy was there man. That's right Craig come to our guys are on there and Johnny Johnny yeah two of my good buddies were in it and then I had a couple other guys that I know that I've competed against before that were there so I really wanted to see I wanted to see darn alphaerson I wanted to see Craig I wanted to see Johnny I wanted to see all them get up on stage um so I did get a chance to kind of I didn't go I didn't watch it but I did go watch and uh go through all the pictures and see the judging. I saw the scorecard and, you know, somebody on our forum just recently talked about this and they were talking about, and everybody

loves to get into, if you're in this world, like if you're listening right now and you're not into this, if you don't give a shit, you're like, oh, this is boring. But if you're into this world and you pay attention to all the competitors, especially all the pro athletes and they compete, everybody loves to get on like and start debating like, oh no, so and so is this. And you know, Craig was too much of this. And so on was so feathered. Yeah, everybody likes to use all their terms. I think they know how these judges are thinking. I'll tell you this. After seeing classics, I'm disappointed because all it looks like to me is we have another category where the judges don't even know what the fuck it stands for.

Because with men's physique, it was always like this gray area. I go to one show, I'm too big, I go to another show, I'm too condition, I go to another, you know what I'm saying? Like each show. See, I'm entirely convinced 100% that these shows are nothing more than like American Idol talent, you know, shows. It's fine talent that we can look and sell supplements to you. I don't think that the shows themselves matter, it means shit anymore.

There's a couple that might make money, but most of them are just, it looks to me like, hey, let's throw the show together, sponsor supplement companies, and then we'll identify the next person that's going to sell our shit. You know what I'm saying? And that's why it's that way. They're looking. The most today. I think in here's that thing. You know what I'm saying? And that's why it's that way. They're looking at commercial appeal. You ever seen a guy who's like, just physique is like light years ahead everybody, but

loses because he's ugly. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? No, no, no. It is partially that. Okay, here's a thing though. You gotta remember too that, you know, I was out on a mission to prove otherwise too when I got into this whole thing. That's why I did it with no team, why I did it with no coach and I did too that, I was out on a mission to prove otherwise too when I got into this

whole thing. That's why I did it with no team, I did it with no coach and I did all that stuff because in my heart I wanted to believe that if I continue to bring the most ridiculous physique to the stage, eventually these fuckers would have to award me my pro card. And it did happen. And it definitely happened. I'm a lot of people that saw, I just did a post today, actually, of my first amateur show.

Most anybody that was there for that show and saw me hit stay, I got fourth place on that show. Anybody that was there was like hands down, I was first place. So I didn't win, I didn't win my first show, but then I also didn't give up, I didn't go say, you know, get all pissed off about it. It is what it is.

There was things that could get better at. I knew I wasn't a great poser at the time. I knew I could, I still had things to work on. So I kind of took that approach. I can't end then I, one of the most consistent things I was told was that I was over conditioned. I was too ripped. And so then the next,

you know, it's funny about that, that first show I remember being there and talking to you. I, my vibe on the whole thing is that like, your whole process going into that, it was like, I'm going to get that fucking trophy. I'm getting number one, then you're going to retire. That was like your entire plan.

You're like, you're recognized for doing this on myself. You know, I'm super conditioned, you look way better than everybody else. And it was obvious. And then we're like, oh, they're not going for that. Yep. So that is exactly what happened. And then they fucked with me and told me I was too conditioned. And I was like, okay, so I not going for that. Yep, yeah. So that is exactly what happened. And then they fucked with me and told me I was too conditioned. And I was like, okay, so I'm gonna come in a little bit

softer and bigger, which I was like excited about because obviously it's easier to come in softer and bigger than it is to be super shredded and striated and starving. So I was like, cool. And then I went into my next show and I put on, I think I came in like 10 pounds heavier at stage. Then I was too big. And then I looked like a body builder.

I was too big for the, too big for everybody. And I took six place in that show. Then I kind of got, okay, I kind of get where I need to fall in between. And then I'm like, on this, and in my head, I never told anybody this, but I was like, this is going to be my last shot of trying to appease these judges and bring this physique that I need to have. And I did, and I took first, you know, and it was right in between. I'd have to say those two.

So there is a little bit of, they, what they know they have, the power they have, as judges, I rarely ever see a guy come into his very first show and take first place. Well, my point is this, is that who puts these shows, who makes these shows happen, who sponsors these shows, who pays for them? Well, this is how it works.

You have a company like Muscle Contest, Spectrum Fitness. These are the companies that put them on. They host them, they put them on. They hire a staff, they have people that they have to pay to get on there in order for them to get paid, they get paid by a lot of the donations that are coming from the sponsorships. Right.

You know, brands like Evo Gin and brands like who else is? So to me, it's like the contest and it's no it's The contest appear to be kind of like a funnel. How are we gonna get these people to come in and the attractive people to come in? We're gonna look and see who we can sponsor who can make money. It's like battle the bands. Yeah, it's exactly I was I remember doing that when I was in Chicago and The whole thing is about how many people you can bring to the show.

Then they would judge you based off of like, you know, the crowd's response. It's like, come on. If you only have like 10 people, how are you gonna win over an entire crowd of somebody else's fan base? You know what I mean? It's like impossible.

Yeah. But it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a, that's what they look like now. And with But it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, that's what that's what they look like now. And with social media now, you're seeing more of these athletes make more money just on their own. Like they don't even have to compete

or they don't, they don't even place high. And they just, yeah, well, and at the end of the day, when you look at, um, when you look at all these physics, and here, when you look at bodybuilding, bodybuilding is very, it's, it's a lot more cut and dry

than any other category. Because bodybuilding is the biggest, most's a lot more cut and dry than any other category because bodybuilding it is the biggest most defined, you know, symmetrical guy. The bigger, the more symmetrical and define this guy. Yeah, there's less gray area. There is. There's less. I mean, if you put two guys next to each other, you put like a Ronnie Coleman looking guy and you put somebody like a branch Warren who I think looks great to Ronnie Coleman, just dwarf some. He's a bigger man. He's more symmetrical. He's everything about him is superior when you talk about bodybuilding than that guy, right? Or in Minsphe, Zik, it's like, you know, you got all these different heights and weights. I mean,

guys are like... And classic was like that. Yeah. It was just not better. So all classic did was they put everybody in. If you were a certain height, you had to fall in this weight weight Which is why Craig had to come all the way down the two hundred and five pounds now Craig I thought look fucking awesome you look sick. Yeah, he looks sick dude that front pose of him is just you see his wings his abs are blocked out His quads just smashed on everybody. I thought he looked awesome. I thought he looked but But the argument to probably some judges are going to tell, I mean, he actually told me that he was told that he was the judge told him he was not conditioned enough. I say, the motherfucker didn't eat for like three days going into the show. Yeah, but that he was miserable. Yeah, he was peeled a week, two weeks before that

silly. That's silly. He was, he had probably strided glutes and had they let him wear those kind of trunks. Yeah. No, he had his feathers in his quad, bro. You can see every line, every line in that. That's so, I know. Absolutely. So, and then, you know, Johnny, Johnny took last and Johnny, I thought, look great too. But it's like, you- Did he comment?

Is the why he, cause I don't really watch any of it. I didn't, I haven't talked to Johnny yet. I haven't had chance in, you know, knowing Johnny, I know how competitive he is. And I know if he plays like that, I know he's in his head. He's a little frustrated. He has always a positive attitude, but I'm not going to bother him, bother him right now. I know I'll see him in the gym or we run into each other soon. So when we do, I'll get a chance to pick his brains. Anything with Craig, I know what it's like to be in their shoes. So I don't like

to like, oh, hey, bro, what do you think? What happened? Oh, like start doing all that stuff because you're, they're competitive. We're all very competitive. You know, and there's, there's nothing like that. I can't't all the sports I played in my life There is nothing like this because it's subject It's so subjective on a on a bunch of fucking judges that are looking at you and they decide if you look good It's not like a normal sport that we're all used to playing where you know if I score more points in you and you know in basketball There's no doubt I want bizarre world. It is well How many times have you seen like a boxing match

and at the end of the fight, the judges just fucking give it to whoever. But when you knock someone out, there's no fucking doubt who won. You know what I'm saying? You know. And you could have the ugly as boxing and knock the dude out and you still win.

Yeah, exactly. And there's just, there's no cut dry air or cut cut area like that where it's like obvious. Okay, you definitely beat this guy. You look at it. So, you know, it's funny. We're talking about this and we're kind of going back and forth and I talk a little shit.

And I think when we talk about bodybuilding and physique and we tend to, we tend to talk poorly on it for the most part. I mean, that's a pretty accurate statement. Well, I think it's mainly because of the state that it's in right now, though. That's, be honest. Well, I think it represents a lot of what we don't like in fitness, the cosmetic, but you guys can't help me on that. Well, I'm outnumbered in this one for sure. Well, I was going to say, I was going to say some positive stuff because bodybuilding,

the truth is, has made some incredible contributions to health and fitness, massive ones. if it wasn't for bodybuilding, resistance training would not be mainstream. It was bodybuilding that made resistance training mainstream. It wasn't athletic conditioning. Actually, athletes didn't touch weights for the longest time. It was only bodybuilders and weightlifters that lifted weights. And as far as athletes are concerned, when you look at a bodybuilder, although they train like this all the time, which makes them not have very good functional strength,

but I will say this, no athlete, I can think of, knows how to feel a muscle like a bodybuilder. Like if they had to feel a muscle and develop it because of an imbalance, they could do it simply by thinking about it and moving in position. Most people have no idea what muscles are. Oh yeah, I'm saying. Oh no, for sure.

Ask a bodybuilder to flex his lats, just standing there with no weight or no nothing. Activate his lats right there. Ask a normal person to flex their lats. Ask a heart, ask a super advanced athlete. Flex your lats, flirty lats, I don't know how. Yeah, I want not to do that. It'll be so foreign to them.

Right, so I think bodybuildings brought a lot. Bodybuilding also was the, they're always on the forefront when it comes to diet. It's fucking true. Now they go extreme with their shit. But bodybuilders were the first ones to do low carb. You know, to get lean, they understood the importance of that, they understand the importance.

When it came to carb loading and how that changed the way you look. And during this athlete's start of that, bodybuilders made it kind of mainstream. We're now people understand that they could. They're like the alkylists. 100%. Right. 100%.

Yeah, they'll take on all those things to see what really happens internally with their body. It's all self-experimentation. And we've adopted a lot of concepts from them. They invented, especially in the performance world. And they invented a lot of the exercises that are going to say, I think it's some of the staple moves that we teach or we talk about, if definitely evolved from bodybuilding for sure. And I think back to that, and it's like, the creativity to come up with some of these

exercises must have been amazing. I mean, you now we take it for granted, but, you know, to be able to think of how to do a particular movement that's going to work an area more than another, that took some brain power. And as a matter of fact, I was talking about this the day when it came to resistance training and intellect. And there's this false dichotomy, this false belief that you're a meathead, you're not smart or if you're smart, you're not that muscular.

But the truth is, exercise improves cognitive function. So a lot of bodybuilders are smarter because of what they do in the gym. They might not be smart at all. They might not be smart, but they're smarter now as a result. So it's coming around. I think that, I mean, God,

I hope to think that we're hopefully playing a role in that. I think that that was one of the things that inspired me to stay in it. I like it. I do love it. I mean, I did have a plan when I first got into it. I didn't have this passion. I didn't like growing up. I didn't say, oh, one day I want to compete and I was all into that.

Not at all. But I did respect the business side of it. I'm very fascinated by growing industries. And I had gone and watched a show, God, 10, 15 years plus ago. And it was held in this little auditorium at a high school. And there was literally 20 to 30 people there. All the 20 to 30 people were like family members to the people that were competing. And it was all dark. And there was, you know you know, couple banners in the back that were the people that sponsored or paid for the show to happen.

And, you know, these cheap little trophies they got handed out and it was a short little show. And it is what it is, right? And nobody cared about it. Nobody talked about it. It wasn't a big deal. Well, now, I mean, to where it's at already, like, we're not even 10 years later.

And this thing is turned into this. Oh, you don't want physique? Just in general. I mean, I think physique and bikini really it made bodybuilding explode because it was going on. It was on a dip, you know, there wasn't it wasn't getting as popular. And when they introduced those categories, it really it really introduced it to a lot of people. Yeah, because even thinking about women too, like I just remember like the Hawaiian tropics bikini. That was all I thought of. Right?

Oh, for anything. Yeah. Yeah, resistance training, bodybuilding did bring that to women. Actually, they're the ones that brought resistance training to women. Yeah. What was her name? Rachel McLeish and Corey Everson. These were some of the original female miscellimpias way before they took, you know,

anabolic steroids and stuff. And they looked, if you saw them today, they're probably less muscular than some of your top cross-fit female athletes. But women looked at those pictures and said, wow, I kind of want to look like that. And they started lifting weights. It was a bodybuilder that came up with some of the machines

that we see in gym today. And I know we talk shit about machines, but they have their place. And bodybuilding played a huge, huge role in that. I think the reason why for me at least now I talk poorly about it quite a bit is because it, you know, bodybuilding started, it's root started in physical health and performance. And, you know, look to a certain way and we celebrated that, but it was because it represented that you could do something. It wasn't just for the sake of looking a certain way. Yeah.

In fact, the original bodybuilding shows had some kind of a physical component to it. So you would go up and you pose and flex into your thing. And then there would be another portion where you would either do gymnastics or you would lift something or you would demonstrate your You know why you look the way you do Bodybuilding eventually became just about how you look and of course like with anything when you have competition involved

It just becomes amplified over time and now bodybuilders are Not the epitome of you know health and fitness and performance especially on game day, because they're so, they've just destroyed their bodies to a certain point. You just remind me of something and I'm gonna take a little left turn right now. So hopefully everyone is good.

I mean, right here. You just remind me of, we just had somebody recently. So one of the things that's been really neat about the MAP Santa Ballad program, and that I find very fascinating is, we have a 30 day guaranteed money back right if somebody goes through the program. Yeah, right. And on a on a normal month, it's not rare that we'll actually go through an entire month after hundreds of programs have been sold that nobody returned. It's actually super rare. Yeah, I think I think I remember the names of every

person that's ever. Yeah, well, yeah, and we had one. We had one just I think yesterday or whatever it came up. And so it's where and the reason being this person follows Joe Donnelly's routines and Joe's routines are extremely high volume. And he saw maps in a ballroom was like, oh, this means I have to go to the gym three times a week. Oh, my God. I'm just ridiculous. Like, oh, I don't want to do this. Like I want to come five six, seven, six, seven, seven, seven, seven, seven, oh, this means I only have to go to the gym three times a week. Oh my God. This was ridiculous. Like, oh, I don't want to do this. Like I want to come five, six, seven days a week.

The reason I live eating bread in the gym, where am I going to do? And the reason why I want to bring this up is because, you know, I know originally when it came up, the boys got a little frustrated, you know, and I said, listen, I relate and I understand because I like, I'm in the gym seven days a week. Now what I do in the days, seven days a week is not a typical high volume training session. I obviously listen to my body and do other things that are more appropriate

like mobility and focus on that or I'm going there just to de-stress for a day. So it doesn't always have to be this crazy routine. But I get it. I get what, you know, some people like that routine of going, I like the routine of going to the gym every single day because if I don't have that every single day, I will start to make excuses. Oh, I'll just do that workout tomorrow or the next day. So I get it. But what people don't understand is there is science behind all this. It's not like,

oh, this, we just do a routine three days a week and the forever the rest of your life, it's superior to any other routine. No, the reason why it's called maps and why we designed it the way we did is because it is not the end all. It's designed to guide you through this journey of fitness and to teach you the things that are best for your body and to teach you the best way to start and to start program design, which is why maps and a ballic is the best way for you to start and then start program design, which is why Maps and Obolic is the best way for you to start and then evolve from there, which leads me to another person who recently we talked about was talking about when they got into performance.

Now I'm going through performance right now and green maps. Yeah, green maps. And in green maps, I'm extremely focused on mobility. And that's what I'm doing. Every exercise, everything that I do is about that. And I'm trying to take my body that's been training like a fucking meathead and like a bodybuilder for the last three years.

And I'm trying to get range of motion back and I'm trying to get functionality back and get rid of some of these aches and pains and tightness that I have. And I know that it's important and I have never trained my body like I have trained at the last three years because of competing because of competing. I was so aesthetic driven that I just neglected to do all these things that are so important.

And here I am in performance. Now is my deadlift PR and my squat PR the same as it was when I was going through anabolic and I was focused on, to three heavy-ass squats and my main focus was to see my PRs and my gains. Right, no. And I don't care, because I know that as soon as I cycle back to red or I move to maps black and my focus becomes different,

then I'm gonna watch a goal beyond that because guess what, now, just filled all the holes. Now I have better range of motion, I have better flexibility, I have better range of motion. I have better flexibility. I have better connection with my muscles. And even though I might be 10, 15 pounds behind my PR right now, I know I'm going to shoot past that when that becomes a focus again.

Well, what this is is long-term thinking. This is long-term thinking and again, and how to address the body as a whole. You know, instead of just sticking with what you're best at, right? You're taking outside your comfort zone, you're learning new skills, we're learning new skills. Maybe it's taking you away from your awesome skill that you had, right? That's scary. You know, that sucks. That's called growth. Right.

Well, if you have to learn how to have that growth mindset. You do, and if you're, I mean, like anything, you, when you go focus on something else, you lose a little bit of what you had left. But if that, if what you're focusing on now contributes to your ability to go back and learn and relearn to go stronger through whatever you were doing before, then it's totally worth it. And that's how the body adapts.

So if you're training strength right now, you're going to lose some agility for a little bit. But then you go through a new train agility and then you cycle through and then when you go back to training for strength, now, you're gonna lose some agility for a little bit But then you go through a new train agility and then you cycle through and then when you go back to training for strength Now you have more agility more mobility more endurance you go and back to strength You're gonna end that strength cycle higher than you were before right when you were just doing strength and meanwhile You're paying attention to all these contributing factors and skills in how they're interacting with these lifts, right? Again. So that way, when you spend time in the next phase and you know what this phase is focused on as far as the speciality, you can really highlight those weaknesses and build them up. And look, I'll tell you what, I've been working out for a long since I was 14 years old,

so I've been working out for a long time. And my workouts consistently evolve. They constantly evolve to incorporate some of these different things that I learn or that I finally see, okay, I wanna try that or maybe I wanna do some yoga positioning or maybe I wanna do some kettlebell work and I'm gonna move through and watch as my body reacts and responds and how I adapt. And especially being someone in the gym like myself

has been there for a long time and, you know, preventing injury and, you know, if especially if you train naturally, it's important to pay attention to those things and not just stick to the same bodybuilder, you know, over and over type routine, which bodybuilders do now, but they didn't do go to Arnold's Day. You're doing ballet. I was just gonna say, you go even in Arnold's Day. Arnold's Day was, that was the, they call the golden era of bodybuilding. That was pretty bodybuilding-ish, but Arnold and Franco used to do strength cycles where they would do like a power lifter, or they would do gymnastics, or they would do, you know, bar work. And they used to do this because it would contribute to their way their body looked as well. So they're just more open-minded and smarter.

Well, if people don't have been figured out by now, that's where a lot of our programming is rooted from the stuff that was great, that was awesome, that we've changed because. The pioneers that really like, exactly. We're gonna do that. Sometimes, you know, I'd sell brought this up a while back, and I thought it was a great analogy

when he used training this way, like studying for a subject. And you know what, if you just wanna be good at math, and that's all you wanna be fucking good at, you don't wanna learn another language or learn the one you already speak very well, then yeah, stay in that fucking lane, do math all the rest of your life,

get great at that, and that's all you're great at, but you're not getting that much smarter. You're gonna get a lot more smart if you focus on specific subjects and continue to grow. And every time you cycle back to math, you're not gonna lose all of it. You're not gonna know the basic fundamentals that you had before when you were now focusing on English. Go around. That's the training the body is the same way too. And you're just going to keep getting better, aesthetically better, performing better, more mobile, and all these things matter. And that's now that's the piece that you talk about the things

that bodybuilding did well. This is the things that I don't like about bodybuilding was, you know, you see all these guys, I would see all these men's physique, these bodybuilding appears in mind. And I listened to their routines and the stuff that they're doing. And it couldn't be more cookie cutter out of a magazine. And because they're enhanced by antibiotics, they're doing all this hardcore, everything hardcore diet, hardcore training. Yeah, of course you're gonna see that, but it's short lived.

That's why you see a lot of these old school bodybuilders too. They all look fat and at a shape now because they haven't continued that. We're about being able to be aesthetic, being able to look that way too, but then long jevety, being able to look that way forever. Well, yeah, and we talked about this too somewhat on like when you go to get into that show presentation form, like how, how when you get to that point, like, and you try and duplicate

that each time it changes, like your body doesn't respond when you, you go so hard to get to that, that bulk, that size that you're trying to achieve. And now you cut so hard on the way down to get back to it, but it doesn't look the same as it did that time previously. And now, it's just this formula, they stick with the same formula, thinking it's going to produce that same result that had the beginning, which is the definition of insane. I'm so glad you brought that up. This was something that Justin was yesterday.

Was yesterday we were driving back from the shoot for maps black. And I was just sharing the journey of my first, my very first show with the boys and stuff and one of the things that I had noticed, because I was actually assessing the classic guys, Johnny and Craig and everybody who did the show. And I said, you know, one of the things I noticed right away was that very first show when I cut, I was getting shredded so fast I had to slow it down because my body had been, I was the skinny guy always trying to bulk and get big. I had never even eaten a deficit. Much less did a bunch of cardio. So my body was just responding and just adapting

to this whole new thing. And I was getting ripped and ripped and ripped and ripped and ripped. And then the second show, it was a total different monster. The third show, another total, and I was like, whoa, that's crazy how quick it's gotten used to that. And now the same formula that I'm plugging in to get myself in that same condition no longer applies. And a lot of that comes because we do,

we get, and no matter whether you're a crossfit person, a bodybuilding person, doesn't matter, we get stuck in these routines that we keep training the same way, we're always training the same way because we like it, because we see gain, we see PRs, you got better at it, obviously. Exactly, but it doesn't mean that your body is gonna continue to progress.

And in fact, even if it is progressing, there's probably a better way to go about it. And I just feel like when I see somebody that sees that and that's their mentality, like this kid who wanted to refund is like, man, give the kid a refund, but we got to have at least explained to him. I feel bad if we don't tell him that, dude, you're just you're heading down a road that is strange to me that someone would say. I want to work out. I want to work out more for the same or less.

It doesn't make sense to me. Well, you said that I got it. I understood. I understood. Yeah, but if you want to go in the gym and just be in the fucking gym every day, then you don't need a fucking program. Just go in the fucking gym. Well, that and then't need a fucking program, just go in the fucking gym. And then just do shit. Do you see how I'm saying? I'm on machines and go. Yeah, just go. If that's your favorite thing to do, just hang out in the gym.

Oh, you're right. Here's the way I look at it as this, is like I said, I'm in the gym seven days a week. I try and never to take a day off, but I do, I mean, it happens, it happens, but that's how I like to make it roll in my life is, I'm always trying to get the gym at a certain time, every single day.

Right, but for you, you're going in there, you understand exactly what you're doing, what you're gonna work and what the, if you were going in every single day and getting like horrible results, and then you went in three days a week and you got fantastic results, would you still make your ass go in the gym 70s?

No, of course. That's what I'm saying. So the whole like I just like to go to the gym. I've heard people saying that like I love working out every day. Okay, but why? Nobody fucking works out for no reason. You see what I'm saying? You work out because there's a particular goal. You see how your body feels. You feel good about it. And then the workout becomes associated with that. And it's awesome. Otherwise, all you're doing is hard labor. Nobody likes hard labor. I'm not gonna go move rocks. If all I'm gonna get is nothing.

Sal, take those rocks from that pile, move that pile, and then when you don't over there, move them back over to that pile, they ain't done for the day. It's the margar, it's the gym margar. It's just like a being a workaholic. Well, yeah, I'm gonna say some people have this as an addiction.

We were ridiculous about it. And they're just like, oh my god, it's so much work. And I had so much work on the weekend. It's so much work. And I'm like, work on the weekend. It's so much work. And I'm like, well, stop working. Shut the fuck up. Well, I don't know if you guys have, I've had a sense of all that. I've had clients like this. Some clients. Um, and it's, and it's definitely, um, God, I don't know what, what you would

classify this as, but it's, it's almost sadistic is though, that they want punishment. They want to be hammered. They almost want like they feel guilty for the way the industry is for that. Right. But that's what I'm saying. And all that's that there you go again. There that's the thing though that's like there it's not because they enjoy the punishment. It's because they feel like they they they need the punishment because I ate this food or it makes me feel better about what I just did. It's not the punishment. Nobody likes pain for the sake of pain. If they did, they wouldn't go to the gym for it. They would do a justice talk amount. They go hire someone to whip them and then they'd have a safe word and all kinds of weird

shit would happen. Ball gag. You know, upside down and spinning wheel. I have no idea what any of that stuff is. Something like that. But you get what I'm saying. No, no. So for me, when I see these guys training, the way they're training, especially some of these bodybuilders,

and look, I'm not knocking anybody, I'm sure they know their bodies and how they respond, but I would love to see some of these guys who are that muscular who maybe are on gear, to just take three weeks. Just take three weeks, you're not gonna fucking lose anything. It's three weeks, big fucking deal. Take three weeks just take three weeks. You're not gonna fucking lose anything. It's three weeks big fucking deal Take three weeks take your body parts split crump right it on a piece paper crumpled up shove it up your ass and go do Three days a week full body Focus on the major lips and see what happened. I'm telling you these fuckers would gain five pounds of three week

We repeat that really I would love Take it crumpled up and shove it up their own ass. I don't think anyone's going to take that advice, but I do. You know what? You get what I'm saying. No, I hear, you know what? And the reason why I feel like I have to continue to interject on this is because I understand, I understand what it's like to be that person I used to get after to work out. Like that I like to work seven days a week. So it took a lot for me to go like, you know what, have some blind faith. You're gonna work out less. You're gonna work out. This is the first time I'm the asshole when he's the nice guy. Yeah, ever rolls completely. You know why? Because we're talking about

bodybuilding. Yeah, that's exactly why, right? I'm trying to defend it. You know, my peers. I am. I'm trying to just bring it up in. I'm trying to defend my boys and girls out there that are listening. I know we've got lots of competitors that listen to this. And I don't want them all to be like, fuck Sal. I'm not going to hate me. I'm going to crumple some paper up and shove it up his ass. Uh, yeah. So I get it, you know, but I cannot stress enough, um, even if you don't follow maps, I, Sal's right.

Sal's ass is rock hard though. You know, take that body parts split, get out of that man, Tauety, get out of the man, get out of the man, get out of the mentality of training to failure. Those two things alone, just stop going to failure, stop thinking about body parts, let's train the body more frequently and don't pound it as hard. Watch out response. You'll be blown away. You'll be blown away because in the past, I too used to think the same way. I used to correlate a good workout with how much how sore I was. Yet how sore I was also dictated on whether I would train that muscle again.

So sometimes I would go six, seven days before I revisited that same muscle because it was so goddamn sore from beating the shit out of it. And before long I got to a point where my body got adapted to getting hit that often. That's all I could do. And it was very hard for me to progress. The moment that I stopped doing training to failure and started to hit muscle groups more frequently, it was just, it was mind blowing for me. It was mind blowing for me and it changed everything. It's one of those moments that it kind of feels effortless because you've put so much

effort before in a training a certain way that now all you did was change that and then oh my god, all this muscle's coming on and I'm getting stronger and more fit. It feels effortless because you used to have to scratch and claw and do like that guy did where he works out seven days a week, probably for two hours a day, you know, and to get just the smallest gains. And that's all, that's all. I mean, I was making a joke earlier. You don't have to do that with the paper I'm gonna ask. I was just kidding. But you should. I'm glad you, you know, you just clarify. But you

should try, you should try a few weeks of mixing it up and you, you might be surprised. I know you'll be surprised. You won't say you won't mind. It will, it's like this. It's like you've been doing math a certain way. Somebody taught you long division or whatever a certain way forever. And you've got it down very well because you've been doing that for years. You've seen results that way. You get to the right answer. But so I can't you account. You're handing you a calculator right now. And I know you don't want to use it because you already know how to get to the

answer. It's easy. It's exactly. That's too. I like my habit. I want to write it all the way down the paper. Yes. That is the best analogy I could think of right now. I get it. I understand that you know how to get to the answer. And I'm not saying that this is, but try this. I like trying to calligraphy.

I don't really like to type. Right. Calligraphy. Try this calculator out. I was actually having a debate with my sister. She used to be a teacher and she's like, all kids should learn cursive and I'm like, why? Nobody's even right. Nobody's ever going to do cursive and I'm like why nobody's even right.

We have this huge debate about it. She's like it's good for children to build character. I'm like fucking teach him out of I don't know plant something that who cares. Really? She felt that strong about cursive. Bro right now I'm telling you right now there's teachers listening right in the sand. There are teachers listening right now that are agreeing with her. And saying all children are educated with you. Yeah. Angry that I'm saying that. No, I'm like, why are you not gonna fucking care?

I'm actually with you on this one, so. Yeah, it's silly. Well, I think the stance that she has, if you say that it teaches discipline or teaches this or whatever, is she's trying to say it teaches them, I agree with you, that could be applied to some other skill. Put on karate or some other skill set that we don't teach kids, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, how about manners, or planning a seat or something like that, growing a plant, who knows? Something else. You know, when I use cursive, when I sign my name, you know, who can read that? Nobody.

Yeah. It's fucking who cares. And it, let's be honest, it's not intrudersive. Mine isn't. Well, I used to rank cursive just to make sure that the professor couldn't read it. Yeah, I mean, you're writing fuck you.

It's like the first like paragraph was perfect and the rest was like, and they're like, hey, I have the worst writing of all time. You're ready fuck you like the first like paragraph is perfect and the rest was like I have the worst writing of all time Absolutely well, you know bodybuilders in the olden days they used to train full body That's the way they used to do it all of them and this was before steroids before they had stuff They just did what worked for their bodies and these guys looked Impressive and were very strong and very muscular. And this is again, before this and before protein powders.

And they used to train that way. All they had back then was what worked. Yeah, well, I think that that's the distinctive point though, is that like, you know, the testosterone and the enhancements and all these like, you know, hormonal things, like they, they didn't have that as readily available. I mean sure it was probably there on some form, but like it is today to where they don't have to

get that creative and really press their body on multiple avenues. They just have to kind of get into it and mix themselves. It is a lab. Look, without bodybuilding, we wouldn't have the modern gym. It just wouldn't exist. Bodybuilding created that. Nobody else, no other sport can claim that.

Bodybuilding brought resistance training to the masses, about resistance training to athletes, it brought resistance training to women. And then bodybuilding went crazy. And then you have these things that came out as a result of it. CrossFit is the exact opposite of bodybuilding. And it wouldn't, CrossFit wouldn't be nearly as possible if it wasn't for bodybuilding. It was the backlash to bodybuilding, 100%.

So CrossFit can even think bodybuilding for existing, because if it wasn't for bodybuilding, CrossFit wouldn't exist. And we're trying to teach people somewhere in the middle is where you want to live. We're just somewhere in the middle is where you want to live. There's some truth in a lot of these things. Absolutely. And when you take out that truth and you apply it towards the average person who just wants

to get maximum, you know, best fitness, bang for their buck, I'm only going to be, you know, I want to have a normal life, but I also want to get muscular and feel good and be lean. What's the best, most efficient, most effective way possible to do that? Not what's the hardest, most difficult, pro way to do that, that'll take me the longest amount of time. That's not what people want. So all we're doing is we're looking and we're saying,

this is super effective. How could we be the most efficient? Right, oh, you know why that dude built more muscle doing CrossFit than bodybuilding? Because now he's dead lifting and squatting, whereas before he was doing, you know, one of those leg extensions, leg curls and fricking, you know, one arm, let's eliminate those.

Exactly. And so the bodybuilding has contributed incredible amounts to what we have now as the fitness industry, but like they went crazy. And that's why we think about it. It's great for extremes. It's great to create that sort of spectrum for us and then like you said, extract all the good stuff

and eliminate the fluff. And that's what becomes maps. It's exactly. It's another good example would be like functional flexibility now is becoming, we talk about it. It's a zone, oh my god. You know what?

We talk about it in another episode. I feel like that's a whole episode. Oh, not that I'm a talker. I don't even want you to get into that right now. That in fact, we'll roll right into that next one because I think that's a great episode. Absolutely. I think that's such a great episode.

Well, when we go into, before we get into that, I have a lot to say about that, right? I just want to say that, I want to credit yoga for bringing that to fitness. If it wasn't for yoga and yoga's popularity, functional flexibility wouldn't really be a huge thing right now. And that's, I just want to say that before we signed off.

So please leave us a five-star rating review on iTunes. And don't forget to check us out on Instagram at Mind Pump Radio. You can find me at Mind Pump Sound. You can find me at Mind Pump Sal, you can find Justin at Mind Pump Justin, Adam at Mind Pump Adam, and you can check out our testimonials at Mind Pump Radio. We write some inappropriate.

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