Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2579: Raise Your Testosterone in 30 Days (This Will Work!) & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: April 19, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Raise your testosterone in 30 days by following these 5 steps. (1:43) Let’s get clear on detoxification. (25:38) The safety profile of creatine. (28:32) The nefarious agenda against meat. (32:18) Bad Dad moment. (42:14) The use of probiotics to improve muscle strength. (51:02) #ListenerLive question #1 – If I were your client, how would you direct me on my fitness journey and where to go next? (53:52) #ListenerLive question #2 – What are the best alternatives for deadlifts and squats? How can I program them into the MAPS programs, and more specifically, should I program in sled training so that I can train pain-freely as much as possible? (1:05:15) #ListenerLive question #3 – I’ve been reverse dieting and building strength for a couple of months. Should I continue after starting TRT? When should I switch to a fat loss phase? (1:16:51) #ListenerLive question #4 – While I consistently see positive changes in my physique and I love my routine, I have mostly reached a strength plateau. Am I still gaining even though I’m not seeing the same strength gains? (1:23:17) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Legion Athletics for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP for 20% off your first order (new customers) and double rewards points for existing customers. ** Visit Seed for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code 25MINDPUMP at checkout for 25% off your first month’s supply of Seed’s DS-01® Daily Synbiotic** April Special: MAPS HIIT or Extreme Fitness Bundle 50% off! ** Code APRIL50 at checkout ** Decline in Serum Testosterone Levels Among Adolescent and Young Adult Men in the USA Sleep loss dramatically lowers testosterone in healthy young men Androgen receptors and testosterone in men—Effects of protein ingestion, resistance exercise and fiber type Single dose creatine improves cognitive performance and induces changes in cerebral high energy phosphates during sleep deprivation Three weeks of creatine monohydrate supplementation affects dihydrotestosterone to testosterone ratio in college-aged rugby players Keep your red meat to these limits to protect your brain health, experts say Impact of probiotics on muscle mass, muscle strength and lean mass: a systematic review and meta‐analysis of randomized controlled trials Visit Pre-Alcohol by ZBiotics for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MINDPUMP25 for 15% off first-time purchasers on either one-time purchases, (3, 6, 12-packs) or subscriptions (6, 12-pack) ** Mind Pump #2560: How to Break Free from Destructive Body Image Issues How to Box Squat to Improve Your Squat Form – Mind Pump TV How To Do The Sled Push The RIGHT Way! (AVOID MISTAKES!) Strengthen Lateral Movement with a Lateral Sled Pull Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Mary Claire Haver, MD (@drmaryclaire) Instagram Dr. Stephen Cabral (@stephencabral) Instagram Stan “Rhino” Efferding (@stanefferding) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we had live callers call in and we helped them out on air. We coached people on air, but this was after our intro. Today's intro is 51 minutes long. That's where we talk about fitness, science, diet stuff, fat loss, muscle gain. It's a good time. By the way,

if you want to be on an episode like this one where we coach you, email us your question live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Legion. They make excellent supplements for muscle gain, fat loss, strength gain. Today we talked about their cretein gummies. They taste delicious. It's an easy way to take cretein.

Just eat the gummies. And now you've got that great supplement. Anyway, go check them out. Get yourself 20% off. Go to buylegion.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump. Get that discount. This episode's also brought to you by Seed.

The world's best probiotic. By the way, probiotics don't just help your digestive system, they don't just make your skin better, they don't just help your mental state, those are all backed by studies, but studies actually show that probiotics can make you stronger and build muscle. I'm not making this up, look it up for yourself.

Anyway, Seed, the world's best probiotic, go check them out. Go to seed.com forward slash mind pump, use the code 25 mind pump to get 25% off. We also have a sale this month on some workout programs. Maps, HIIT, and the Extreme Fitness Bundle of programs, they're both 50% off. If you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code April50 for the discount. Alright, here comes the show. There is a low testosterone epidemic. It's true, levels have been declining for decades. In fact, if you're watching this and you're a man,

there's a 40% chance your testosterone levels are lower than they should be. We're gonna talk about how you can raise them, ways that have been shown to raise testosterone predictably and reliably. Let's go. Everybody except for Doug. Yeah.

Yeah. I know. I'm just sitting next to the guy over here. Oh geez. Intimidating. You should be catching some of that. I mean. As I wish.

It's just aura of testosterone around you. Catching all the cells back to you. So I'm gonna start with the first point, then we'll go back and talk a little bit about this epidemic, just so people get the first point. So one of the first things you could do to raise your testosterone is to test certain key nutrients because there are certain nutrient deficiencies

that are relatively common in men that will predictably cause lower testosterone. What are they? Vitamin D, zinc, and magnesium. If you're low in any of those or all of those, you are gonna have depressed testosterone levels. And the rate of deficiency that we see in vitamin D and magnesium in particular is very high.

It's actually a significant minority, some studies say a majority of people. Are they inversely related? So is it like most, if you've got low one, you're probably low the other? I mean, is it almost always connected that way? Not D, but zinc and magnesium, if you have low in one, you tend to have low in the other.

And vice versa, if you have low testosterone, you probably have those low, is that? Maybe, so here's why this is number one, is because if it's a fast, easy fix, right? So if you go, if you're among the 50, 60% of men, some studies will say even more, who are low in vitamin D, and then you supplement with vitamin D,

you will see a rise in testosterone. If you're low in zinc and your levels are low, and then you supplement with zinc and fill that deficiency, your testosterone levels will go back up. Same thing with magnesium. So it's an easy fix if this is indeed your problem. But let's back up for a second and talk about this epidemic. This is not,

this is like a real thing. They've been observing this now for decades. Well they've also come out, I mean they've made some bold statements that if we continue down this trajectory that like men will have like no testosterone by a certain, have you seen those haven't you? Where they play it out to a certain year and it's not that far away, it's in our lifetime, we will see like no longer. I think it's within a couple generations. Yes. That's crazy.

That's crazy when you think about that. Yeah, so just over the last two decades, we've seen an average drop of 25%, but if you go back further, this has been observed since the 80s, where you're just seeing these consistent decline in testosterone levels. The problem is there's no smoking gun. There's not like one thing.

It seems like there's a ton of different things that are causing this. Yes, yes. And we're gonna talk about some of the stuff that can definitely help, but there might be an environmental contributor to this because it's really weird to see these continue to drop.

Yeah, real weird. I mean, especially the thing, I hesitate to bring this up, but it's the taint-like study, where they actually measure the taint of between balls and the butt, and it's shrunk significantly over the last few decades. Such a weird correlation.

It is, it is, but it's related to testosterone and all of the environmental factors. A bunch of guys right now measuring their teeth. I know, I want to know. Measure yours, measure your dad's. Is this normal? If yours is shorter, something's going on here. Does this mean, yeah.

This should be the same. So, I didn't know that was a factor, but it is. Yeah, no, no, there's something going on, but again, there are ways you can reliably raise them. Now, the range of what's considered normal testosterone is wacky. So here's what the range is. If you go to your general practitioner and get your testosterone levels checked, your total testosterone, and we're not going to talk about free testosterone.

I know that's what matters, but then we're going to start getting into the weeds. So let's just talk about total. The range of what's considered quote unquote normal for total testosterone is 265, some say 300, some maybe a little higher or whatever, but generally it's about 265 to about 923 nanograms per deciliter. Now if you're like, that's a big gap, you're right, that's 265 to 923. Yeah, three times the amount. Like what's going on here?

Well, what's going on is we just see people all over the place in this, and the data will show that being kind of in the higher end is probably optimal. So you could be 300 and be considered quote unquote normal, you're probably low testosterone. Well, it's also important to understand where you came from. This is why, I mean, we've seen just in the last decade a ton of these

testosterone clinics pop up all over the place, and because we've needed more conversations around the guy who goes in who's 45 years old and he tests at 325 and his general practitioner goes oh you're fine But what he didn't know is that guy was dug 20 years earlier where he was Testosterone was hovering around 1400 for most his life and now he's at you know 300 is something and because he doesn't fall off the charts is dangerously low all his symptoms that he's getting that are the charts is dangerously low, all his symptoms that he's getting that are attached to low testosterone are getting ignored because they think he's fine.

That's the problem. We've come a long way so with these clinics, these hormone replacement clinics, they look at your numbers but they also look at your symptoms because it could be within that range but you could have signs of low or symptoms of low testosterone which are like depression, low motivation, poor sleep, low sex drive. You're just not recovering from your workouts. You're gaining body fat like you haven't before. You seem to be not able to build muscle like you could before.

Those are all signs of low testosterone. So if you have those signs plus you measure and it's in the lower end, then you probably qualify for. It's interesting that we, it's like we got this wrong not only with men but also women. You know, this is like, we just had a recent conversation with the doctor around menopause and just this, the testing for and the perimenopause that could be what,

10 years before, your hormones could be off. But then again, when they, general practitioner looks at it like oh, you're okay, you're fine, but far from optimal, and they have all these crazy symptoms. Seems like men have something similar when it comes to testosterone and free testosterone. Why? Why those two things would we be so off on

with as far as we are in science, and we understand hormones? It's changing. It's because you see different symptoms on different levels. So, like an example would be like your androgen receptor density, which we'll actually talk about, which means how many androgen receptors you have.

If you have more androgen receptors, your testosterone is essentially more powerful. It's got more places to dock or attach to. So for example, there was a study done a while ago where they compared different men who had normal healthy levels of testosterone, but they were within a particular range. And then they looked at how they responded to strength training. And the theory was, the hypothesis was that the men with higher testosterone would respond better to the strength training in the men with lower testosterone but what they actually found was what was a stronger correlate was the androgen receptor density so

they had men with lower testosterone that responded better but they have better androgen receptor density so that's why it's kind of like with that hormone other hormones it might be different but I think you have to look at both the most cutting-edge hormone doctors and specialists now talk about symptoms along with numbers not just looking. Well now it's the flip-flop right now they look at symptoms first and then it's like and then the only reason why they might not is if it's like okay you have already have normally high. But again, go ahead. Oh yeah no I've just had this question forever because like we

talk about free testosterone And you know in terms of like testosterone you're high testosterone But it's bound like how like where how does it get bound up? Like where is it? Where's it binding up it so so that's when we get into the weeds, but there's there's a Chemical in the body called sex binding hormone globulin I think it's called it that will attach to testosterone, making it inert, essentially. It doesn't work. So free testosterone is what counts.

Some nutrient deficiencies can cause that. There may be other genetic factors that do this. If you have really, really high total testosterone, the odds are you're gonna have a high level of this also to make your testosterone less effective. It's almost like a check and balances. Or maybe one causes the other, it might be inverse. But again, we're gonna focus on total

because then it gets real. Yeah, I was just curious, because that was always like, because I've heard some people had high testosterone, but it was like not free. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're gonna talk about the things again that will make a dent for most people. Number one was test the nutrients. And that's low a dent for most people Yeah, number one was testing efficiency. It's like and that's you have that

Yes, if you have that and you supplement with it, you will you will bring your levels back up to a normal rate Did you order these two and that of like what you think? Okay, so if it was a client and we're trying to get to the bottom is right. I'm gonna have them boom go test those first That's right Let's go and then if let's check those because first of all There's more than a 50-50 shot that you're gonna be low in one of those anyways. Probably. Over 60% of the population is low on magnesium. Yeah. And then vitamin D I believe is up there also. It is. So there's already a 50-50

shot that you're low on that so simply supplementing that could make this difference. And it's an easy fix. And it's easy. Cheap, easy, don't need to see a doctor. It's just simple. Go get it done. That's right. And then the next one is. And it's easy. It's cheap, easy, you don't need to see a doctor, it's just simple, go get it done. That's right. And then the next one is what? Get good sleep. Get good sleep. So they did a study on young men. These were young men, so resilient.

By the way, a man's natural testosterone is very reactive to his environment and his lifestyle. So it can go up and down depending on what's going on. In one week of poor sleep, so they took a bunch of college-age males, athletes, so they're resilient, and they had them sleep six hours a night. Which is not uncommon for college kids, right? Six hours a night.

And they all saw a consistent drop in testosterone, about 15%. I have a prediction for you, so. We'd like to give these like crazy wild fitness or health predictions trying to catch it way before here's my my thought Almost everything we talk about in this damn show some way form or another find its way back to getting good sleep Mmm, like sleep just impact the next big Invention or thing is gonna be something that allows the person who is stressed all day, and you either take a pill, or you sit in a thing, and it puts you right into the greatest night of sleep. Well, they've been trying that forever.

They've been trying, but I feel like we can't be far off from figuring this out, you know, with all these different tools that we have out here to try and compliment or help or induce. You know what's crazy about what you're saying is that sleep is such an interesting, crazy mystery in the sense that, if evolution, if you believe in evolution,

if evolution could have figured out sleep, it would have. You're totally defenseless. You're not gathering resources, you're not working. Every animal sleeps, so to try to hack that and figure it out, I mean we have ways of getting you to perform better after a poor night of sleep, but we have not figured out how to get you to sleep less and get the same effects.

I imagine like all the things, there's gotta be a way. Like the things that cause like high cortisol and that cause the restless, like high cortisol and that caused the the Restless like having a hard time sleep when we solve it by there's this thing this chamber that you sit in for it's like Anti-gravity something I don't even I don't know what that looks like or else I would have invented it, right? But there's got to be that's got to be the the the next biggest thing in our space to like just Unlock the next level of health and longevity and performance.

It would be great, because this is a big deal. I mean, poor sleep is so common now. It's connected to everything. It is, and it's so common now because of electronics, because of our cell phones. We'll be vampires when we figure it out. Say what? We'll be vampires, yeah.

That's how they sleep. It's such a chronic issue across the board. Kids have terrible sleep now because of tech, and it causes so many problems, and testosterone suffers dramatically. By the way, if you have sleep apnea or you snore, you could be getting eight hours of quote unquote sleep, but you're gonna have low testosterone from that

because your sleep quality is bad. So it's not just how long you sleep, it's also the quality of sleep. So like you look at studies on sleep apnea and snoring, and that causes consistent low levels in testosterone as well. Yeah, I mean, I've seen a lot of push for the tape, mouth tape, and to kind of address that specifically, but I guarantee the high majority of people have apnea they don't realize. They don't realize it. All right, next up is to lift weights.

Lifting weights is one of the most predictable ways of increasing androgen receptor density. As your body builds muscle, the receptors that testosterone attaches to increase in the body reliably. This is the only form of exercise that has been shown to do this on a consistent basis. Now all forms of exercise improve your health.

The downstream effect of improving your health, if you do it right, is probably better testosterone and maybe a little bit of an endrogen receptor improvement. But strength training directly does this. It's like boom, we're gonna increase endrogen receptors in the body. So if you have a level of testosterone, let's say 400, which is on the lower range

of the one that I gave, let's say your total testosterone is 400, lower range of the one that I gave, let's say your total testosterone is 400, but you double your androgen receptor density. It would be like having testosterone levels that are 800. So you've just dramatically increased the effectiveness and impact of your, and that's just lifting. Lifting weights does this. What does the research say as far as how minimal amount?

Like what's the least amount that you need to do to reap some of these benefits? And then, okay, so two part question. What's the least amount to reap some benefits, and where's the optimal fall? It's probably, least amount is like. Once every two weeks? Yeah, just to stop muscle loss.

But one strength training sessions a week will do this. Two days a week for most people will get you really far. That's probably, I'd argue if we have to keep the entire population in mind, and the levels of stress, poor sleep, and so that, optimal is probably only two. That's right. Because there's a lot of people that,

even if you think three, four times a week would be better for them, not necessarily be better for them because not necessarily be better for them because of how much stress they already have in their life. So it's probably one to two times a week strength, full body routine. A couple compound lifts. With every client that I ever trained,

this was ideal, it was two days a week. And for most of my clients. Also, by the way, there's a couple things I wanna- And keep this in mind also, because I know that people hear that, right? It's like, this is not the most optimal for building a bodybuilder, physique, or becoming the best athlete.

We're talking about health and longevity. Yes, and also, we're not talking about the optimal amount of movement. So, you need to move every day. We're talking about strength training, okay? So, you should move every day. You should try to get 10,000 steps a day. But when it comes to strength training,

two days a week will get you really, really far, really far. By the way, you could do a lot with two days a week because you can progress the workouts and change the workouts for a while. I mean, I had clients that I got incredibly strong and fit two days a week over the course of three or four years. So if you've been working out consistently strength training for three years

and you've seen yourself progress, progress, progress, which you will, and then you want to add an extra day, go for it. But most people don't need to. Two days a week is great. Next, avoid those forever chemicals. Avoid those hormone disrupting xenoestrogens that are found in so many different things. And this is probably one of the smoking guns to the low testosterone. You think so? This is where all the data is pointing.

All the data's starting to suggest. It's not clear yet. I feel like when you start to look for it, it starts popping up in so many places in your house that you didn't realize. Like, I mean, I brought up Pam the other day. Yeah. And it's just like the air fresheners

and all the cleaning products and all's just like the air air fresheners and you know all the cleaning products and all of just like you know stuff In the bathroom that we're using So I don't know it just it seems Rather harmless when you individually kind of select one of them, but it's like they're everything in there It's like a compilation of all of them. I'm not arguing that But I don't know if I buy that it's the smoking gun not that I don't think that it's making a difference, right? that's not my point, but I just think that the movement and sleep have to be some of the most important when it comes to that and

The time frame you're talking about we have seen a dramatic reduction in both of those two So what you're saying is what the... It's accelerated it. Yeah, all the research is saying it's most likely obesity, right, so nobody's exercising like they used to, we're eating garbage, and the chemicals. That's where the point is, that three combination. And sleep, and sleep. Oh, and yeah, and sleep, so poor health, right?

So poor health, and then the other chemicals, yeah. That's what makes the most sense to me, and then I just feel like these chemicals are just pouring gasoline on the fire. I'll tell you what, here's how bad they are. Here's how bad they are. There's people, this happens, I mean, it's not rare, where you'll get a kid or an adult man go to the doctor

because they have symptoms of high estrogen, like gynecomastia or other things, and they'll identify that it's some chemicals that they're exposed to. And don't you think too, this is also in the context of overeating. There seems to be this- Excess body fat will do it.

Yes, there seems to be this, if you were taking in, I mean I remember this even in a, it felt like when I was dieting really strict, I could get away with foods and things I knew I remember this even in a, like, it felt like when I was dieting really strict, like, I could get away with foods and things I knew my body didn't agree with when I was low calorie than when if I was in a surplus those same foods. And so I would think that even the Forever Chemicals have a similar situation going on. It's like, they're not good for your body no matter what.

Just like those foods I'm intolerant aren't good for me no matter what. But in the context of overeating and a surplus, they seem to harvest or cause way more damage. Your speculation is on point, right? Because fat does store certain toxins. Okay, so there are certain chemicals and stuff that will get stored in body fat. Your body's ability to detox is also hampered when you're constantly feeding yourself. In a calorie deficit, you have more seletophagy, you have faster cell turnover, and faster detox pathways. This is why fasting is often used in, quote unquote, detox regimens. So no, it's a combination.

It's a filter, everything else. Yeah, but it's like, here's a huge one, a huge offender for these chemicals. Candles. You know how many times I go over people's houses and they're burning candles and I smell them and right away I'm like, I know what I'm breathing in. I'm breathing in chemical estrogens. It gets funky sometimes. We've got to take care of this.

But yeah, it is total chemicals you've thrown out there. 100%. Candles, perfumes, sc scented products deodorants hair gels Face cream you that this is so random that you brought this up But I have to bring this up because I've been trying to treat there was a girl who's she's a listener and I apologize for Forgetting her name and her handle But she sent me over a bunch of their her and her husband make like homemade, like natural scented candles and things like that. And I have this, she made me this giant, she knew, I think I mentioned one time a long

time of vanilla was my smell. She made me this giant vanilla. It's never been lit, but it makes my room smell so amazing. I've been trying to track her down for everybody because this candle, I had to come over to my house and like never being lit, just sitting in the room puts off this amazing great smell. And it's not, she made it home, it's homemade. So she hears this, you gotta reach out to me because I've been trying to track her down and look up for her handle. I can't remember what life would be, but you bring that up right now. I'm like I've never smelt something that wasn't full of chemicals, that wasn't a plug-in thing that actually smelled that. Oh, those plug-in things are terrible. Oh, they're so... Oh, my God. Bro, I was so bad about those too, which was when I had dogs, it bothered me so much.

So I used to... I was so bad. It's the dog factor for sure, dude. Yeah, it was like I had to have one in every room of the house. Oh, yeah, it was bad. But yeah, it's like plastic containers that we use all the time. It's non-stick anything, cookware, that kind of stuff, like you're just, they're just all over the place and you add them all up and we're bombarded

with chemicals that act like estrogen. They act, they actually react with the estrogen receptor. I really believe those, so much of it has to do with the, in the context of overeating. I think because we are in said this perpetual state of overfed Yeah, you know that then you throw these things and I think that's what has made them look so bad vulnerable Yeah, yeah, I think so now it's a perfect storm It is the perfect storm and so now it's like these things are so bad I was like shit those things have always been very bad for us

But you know the Great Depression when nobody can find calories they put no no big well Well, they were breathing in fucking chemicals and factories To be very clear to be very clear the chemicals I'm talking about they've ramped them up over the last Yeah, so like chemical exposure during the Great Depression was like as best us Right now the ones we're exposed to now don't really kill you, they just slowly change over time. Yeah, dude, and then your kids get changed and so on and so forth.

Lastly, there are supplements you can take that have been shown to help raise testosterone levels if your testosterone's low. The most reliable one that I've seen in data is deaspartic acid. So this is a form of an amino acid that you can take. It will raise luteinizing hormone and you will see a spike in testosterone and sperm count. It will actually improve your fertility as well. The next one is

Tongkat Ali. That's another one that will raise low testosterone. You have Tribulus terrestris which might not raise testosterone but will increase libido. So if you have signs of low libido. Is that herbal? Herbal. And then DHEA if you're older. If you're like a man over the age of 40, DHEA in the morning will probably raise your testosterone levels later on.

So those are the ones. Now here's the downside of these. They all help. I mean, I read a study on deaspartic acid. It raised it like 45% in 30 days. And then people went off and it stayed elevated for 60 days or something like that after. But the effects seemed to wear off.

I've used them all, I've had clients use them all. They seemed to have like a 60 day period and then they kind of go back to the old system. You gotta be pretty low for it to feel the effects, right? And then the studies show like with Tongkat, Ali, low testosterone response to this. But if you're like, eh, you know, kind of in the middle, probably not gonna do anything for you.

That's how I felt. I remember this, you, obviously, we threw the whole kitchen sink at me, right, when I was trying to, when I came off. And I do remember doing this. And I do, I remember feeling it, like getting excited, like, oh wow, I can notice this. But then it totally leveled off, didn't get any better.

And then it kind of sort of slowly go back down the other direction. So, temporarily, I think it's great, or to bridge that if you're doing hormone replacement therapy or whatever. I think that's a nice bridge, but it doesn't seem like it's the... Red light on your balls.

That actually raises testosterone. Yeah, stimulates the lighting cells to... That's an honorable mention. You're gonna do everything. You put that in there, that's an honorable mention. Yeah, that's actually reliable. That's actually pretty reliable. I remember when our buddy Mike did it,

and he tested before and after. And it was like he doubled. He doubled. Yeah. That was impressive. That was the big selling point for me. OK, I'm a believer now. We can make underwear with red light.

I know, right? If it doesn't exist already. It can't. It's not the real red light. Since we're talking about forever chemicals, and this is where you went today, I wanted to get some clarity around a word that has that we've talked about that in the fitness space teams seems to have been bastardized there you're on one side of

the other you're the wellness guru guru person who throws around like crazy or you're the anti wellness person who's just like that's just a gimmicky sales were detoxification yeah so let's get clear on is it a real thing who's just like, that's just a gimmicky sales word, detoxification. Yeah. So let's get clear on, is it a real thing? Is it just because you hear detox, is it automatically that's bullshit? Where's the lymphatic system at? Well, so this is my point is that, you know, I've been guilty of, oh, these detox teas and cleanses

are all a bunch of bullshit. So with that, and because of that, we tend to throw everything that's related to that out, and that's not true. No, it's a term that's been completely distorted. So your body has really effective detoxification pathways, you know, like the liver, for example. And now, what you can do is you can help strengthen

those symptoms to help your, to help strengthen your body's ability to detoxify. I'll give you a silly example. This is a very simple but plain example. Glutathione. You could deplete your liver of glutathione through the use of let's say, acetaminophen, or alcohol, or just any toxin that your liver needs toathione through the use of let's say acetaminophen or alcohol or just any toxin that your liver needs to get rid of. You could have elevated liver enzymes from certain medications. Advil actually knocks down your... Not Advil. So Tylenol knocks down your glutathione. Yeah, it'll lower your glutathione levels.

Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So taking glutathione or injecting glutathione in studies will show that it helps help your liver get rid of or helps your liver become more effective because depleted glutathione means your liver is not as effective as it could be. There's also chelating compounds. Chelating compounds will combine with certain things in the body and help your body get rid of them so that technically could be detoxifying, right? So you could have higher levels of heavy metals, and then you could take things like

coral oil and stuff like that. Also, what is the process? What happens when we sit in a sauna, too? Yeah, sweating. Sweating does it as well. So it's just been bastardized, right? Yeah, and it's been sold as like fat flush, like flush your body.

I mean, it's too bad because I was guilty of getting caught up in that, too, of being like, oh, just flush your body. You know what I'm saying? I mean it's too bad because I was guilty of getting caught up in that too. Of being like, oh just everything that's related to that is all bullshit and there's like, no there's something, I remember when we had Cabral and I heard him say it, oh great, I heard him say detox, like you know, our whole audience is gonna be like, oh this dude's bullshit or whatever,

but there's obviously tremendous value in it. So you think it's because we paired it with the fat loss. Yeah, it's like what happens always. As soon as we pair it with fat loss, it gets bastardized. Speaking of supplements, I was actually talking to my cousins this weekend about creatine because there's all these people now are talking about using creatine for the mental effects, for the cognitive

boosting effects. Because the data is showing that maybe five grams a day will saturate your muscles with the amount of creatine that you need, but 10 grams or more is probably needed for the brain. Yeah, the first study of these was, I've talked about this, where they did this study where people were sleep deprived and one dose of 20 grams of creatine, essentially erased most of the effects of the sleep deprivation. So then they started looking at,

okay, how does it improve cognitive function? How does it help with, and it does. It does great things for the brain. So my cousins, I was talking to them about this, and my cousin, Sep, he's like, well, what's the safety of creatine? What about the safety profile? I'm like, that's a good question

because we know that most of the studies have used five grams, and long term studies. We know it's very safe at five grams. So I went and looked up high dose creatine studies. There was a great one that was done for almost two years. They took a bunch of college rugby players and had them supplement with 15 grams a day for two years

Totally safe. There were no negative markers of anything. Do you know that was that's five? That's three times the dose that that usually recommended, you know, that was the big fear-mongering that was going around when it first hit the market I remember The when cell tech was popular and you had to load all the protein And then there was this theory about some of the body couldn't process all of it. So it was like the kidneys were getting piled up of creatine. Yeah, that was a big fear.

Yeah, that was what scared every mom and dad. I mean, we still get it. I get family. That will, we have a family thread that's typically dedicated to supplement questions for me, right? And we'll get these, I'll get these stuff sent over to me. Sometimes I defer to you and I don't know. And you know, but creatine still is like, is it safe?

Can my son take this? It's the most studied supplement in history. And it's been studied a lot for safety. Now the studies, granted most of them are studying between five grams or so, but there's lots of data now showing that probably 10 grams is very safe. Higher than 10 grams? Probably. Do we have a lot of data to support how safe it is to take 15 or 20 grams? Not much, not much, but

it's probably okay. Nonetheless, five to ten grams a day. These are all athletes that were tested in that bracket. Yes, yes, yes. And they were college youngers, right. So now if you have kidney disease, your nephrologist is going to tell you to probably not supplement anyway So but that's with kidney disease very different from having now do they all like the legion gummies are they using that or that's what? They were asking about yeah You know what though so I've been taking Ten to fifteen grams a day about ten grams a day. I'll take consistently about between ten to fifteen

Pretty consistently now and I do think I notice cognitive benefits from it, but you have to split the dose up. I know you did the same thing. Justin. Yeah, I had the same mistake. See, it doesn't bother me quite a bit. How much did you take at once? I had to count, I probably done like 15 of these.

At one time? Yeah. You don't get the poops? Oh yeah, I gave me the poops. No, it's just. But since you said that, I just, I just did it right now. I take like three, three every day. So I've got them here. I've got them at house, got them in the car. So I have them in all these places. And so it's just like, when it's been a few hours I haven't had it, I'll just throw like three of them. I'll divide the doses by like two or three doses throughout the day. So, but I think what we're

probably gonna see with, with with you know supplements like their their gummies is people are gonna be consistent. People have had such a challenge being consistent with creatine in the past because it's like sand. It's way better. Speaking of studies I gotta tell you guys about the study that was circulating. I'll read you the headline and then I'll read you the study and this is the kind of stuff that makes me super, super frustrated. And also lends some credence to the theory that there is a, there's definitely a,

how do I wanna say this? Agenda. There's definitely an agenda, I think. Do we have to put our tinfoil hats on for this one? No, forget that. You know what? The tinfoil hat people are like, what are they like? They're winning.

They're just, yeah, future predictors. They're like nine for 10 or something. Here's the- It's reality that'll be finally exposed later. There's an agenda for sure, certain agendas. One of them is to get people- Hey, we're this close to the non-believer people being the tinfoil hat people, you know what I'm saying?

So the next time when like a conspiracy comes up and you're like a denier. You're a denier, you're like, oh you got your tin foil hat on, you're a denier. Oh, you're a propagandist? Hey, can we do that? Can we turn it into deniers? Oh, you're a denier.

Hey, don't listen to John, he's an anti-conspiracy theorist. Yeah. Yeah. I'm an idiot. Oh God, I bet he believes the moon is real. Anyway, so there's definitely an agenda against meat For sure. I'm convinced now that there's some weird agenda and what we've seen with media

Especially with the old media is it's like it's all they all work together Exposed quite a bit. Yes, so here's the title of this article CNN, right? I don't see you keep your red meat to these limits To protect your brain health, you know, cuz red meat is terrible. How is that? Is that what grew our brains? Yeah, let's okay Already wrong now what percentage of people do you think read the headline and then read the study like is 80% probably just no no, no, no, it's way higher. Nobody reads. No. Yeah, it's like It's like 80% probably just read the head line. No, no, no, no, no, it's way higher.

Higher than that? Nobody reads this stuff. No, yeah, it's like 1%. They just read this and then they regurgitate it. You read the headline and so you're reading this and it's confirming what you've been hearing anyway from this agenda which is, oh yeah, red meat's bad, red meat's bad, red meat.

Hey honey, sign of the study. See? Our brains. We gotta protect our brains. See man, put it out. Which as soon as I saw the title, someone shared this with me, I'm like, oh, what kind of bull crap are they gonna,

because red meat is one of the healthiest things you can eat for your brain, which is the new thing. Isn't it what grew our brains? Isn't that the theory? I mean that's the, yes. So that's how we have big brains. Because we cooked food, we cooked meat, and we ate it.

It didn't happen from plants. So here's what the study shows. People who ate a quarter of a serving or more of things like baloney and hot dogs had a higher rate of dementia. Baloney and hot dogs. They really use that as an example? Yeah, dude, red meat.

That's junk food. Come on, dude. I'm gonna do a study that's gonna say potatoes are bad for you. This thing's about potato chips. Yeah, it's all about potato chips. Come on, dude. Or don't eat things that taste like strawberries. Study shows that strawberry candy is really bad for you, you thing's about potato chips. Yeah, it's all about potato chips. Come on, dude. Oh my God. Or don't eat things that taste like strawberries.

Study shows that strawberry candy is really bad for you, you know what I mean? Wow. So great. It's hot dogs and bologna, and they're saying red meat in the title of the study. There is an agenda, for sure. It's super frustrating. That's so funny, I thought that was like

losing all kinds of momentum. It's like you just see, cause I mean when the Beyond Meat and all that started to crash and like there was just no interest there anymore. It's like and then all the vegan documentaries and all this, it's all kind of like came and went. Yeah. I was realizing this is not good for us. What is going on with that? Where is Beyond Meat on their stock market? I mean, there was a conservative effort for about a year there. We were inundated with it.

We're just bombarded with the documentaries and the commercials and the stock talk about them. And oh my god. Everybody in LA was on board. Restaurants were popping up that were completely centered around it. Like, what's? Why in LA?

It's just always LA. Yeah, it's just state-of-the-art. I'm like, would you hear LA? It's just always the case. I mean, I agree with you. Ask everybody who lives down there, dude. I agree with you. They'll confirm it. It probably was. I swear, it all starts in LA. I'm like would you hear LA? Always the case. Everybody lives down there dude. They'll confirm it. It probably was. I swear it all starts in LA. Oh my god. Look at that. Yeah they suck. Nobody wants their crap. Wow. I'm gonna eat some real meat dude. I'm gonna eat something that's trying to taste like something else but is far less healthy. Yeah. Wow. It makes it more expensive. Just in October. So 2020 October 9, it was peaked at 194. Yeah, so basically 200 200 dollars a share all the way down to two dollars is 269. Oh, I know Oh in the process of making it taste like that. They used so many unhealthy oils and everything else to combine Every one of those spikes represents one of them stupid documentaries that came out. That's exactly what that is.

100% Yeah, and then all those people actually learned and then everybody started to go, oh man this stuff does taste like shit. Yeah, yeah, I'll just stick with the regular burger. Oh my god. And meanwhile we're starting to get all these like interesting like factoids about plants and how they actually have feelings and they can hear and communicate. I was like, woo, that's inconvenient. Can I just say this, and we're gonna piss people off,

that's fine, I get treating living things with respect. I think that's a good thing. I think that's an extension of goodness. But I do think that the morality With you know with with really hardcore vegans. I think it's misplaced and here's how you know They have a hierarchy they act like they're all equal, but they're not because you have like killing a fish We're okay with fish. Yeah, it's not as cute as they're ugly and they look soulless. Yeah Look soulless. There, it's a... It looks soulless. I believe this...

You just do this all day. There's a bit of... I'll never forget this. I had a woman that I trained and I always respect clients, especially... Now, if a client said to me, I'm going vegan for health, to improve my health, then I'll give pushback because that's typically not the case. Yeah. Or I should say not accurate.

But I've had clients who say, look, I just don't want to eat animals. I feel like it's bad. I respect that totally respect that you're actually your actions Show that you're you know you believe in what you're saying Let's do this, but I had this woman and we could not figure out How to get her health better, and I mean she ate the most well-planned Vegan diet ever yeah, she took supplements to try to fill nutrient deficiencies. She was working with a functional medicine practitioner. Her symptoms were terrible. Like hair, she was losing her hair, weak, you know, she just fatigued and we couldn't figure it out. Again, so well planned. She was very meticulous. She was

really, and I remember I had this conversation with her and I said, you know, I mean she was at, to the point where she was almost an activist essentially. She donated to organizations and I sat down with her and I said, I mean she was to the point where she was almost an activist essentially. She donated to organizations and I sat down with her and I said, how effective are you at helping anyone feeling the way you're feeling? And I said, the animal that's most important to take care of right now is you

because you can't help your family, you're dependent right now, you're having a tough time doing anything, you can't be productive. And how effective of an activist are you? And light bulb went off on her. You know what she did? She just started eating eggs.

That's where she went. We had such a dramatic turnaround in her health from doing that. And then she slowly went and started eating certain types of meat. It was a huge change. I've had a lot of clients that were vegan. And I only had a small've had a lot of clients that were vegan and I only had a small

Percentage that were actually like activists as far as saving animals most of them thought it was the healthier way That's that that to me that's the most common is is that direction or trying to you're using it to lose weight thinking It's a healthier healthier direct. They don't stick to it. They fall off like any diet. Sure It's the ones that believe it's really that was always hard as a trainer when you knew that this is not the healthiest. It's diets are already hard. Everybody fails at them. So diet, you're limiting the amount of- Changing your unhealthy lifestyle to a healthy lifestyle is already really difficult. Make- this is why I even don't like the carnivore diet. All your guys that want to argue all the facts about it and how it's good for you, it's like that's great and there's definitely a percentage of people that that makes sense to you. But restricting yourself to one food group for the rest of your life is just not realistic. So I get it if you have to, right? It's like the vegan activist. I get it if you're trying to save animals' lives,

you gotta go that extreme because that's the only way that you're gonna do it, right? But in the carnivores, I get it if you have a crippling autoimmune issue that you have to go that route. Otherwise, it's a terrible strategy. It's not a good diet strategy. I don't care how much you sell yourself on it because it's working for you right now.

Yeah, we've really been bumped into the extremes on all fronts, you know? So nutrition was one of those that got got, you know, placed it to where it was very extreme. It's like all meat is a bad idea. It's just not the case. And people are always like, well, what's the why do they have an agenda? What's the agenda? Why are they trying to do this? I I've looked into it. I don't know. But my guess is that you can't patent the meat. You can patent plants. GMOs have been patented for a while, and then processed foods are patented,

and animals aren't. I mean, look at the story of corn. I mean, look at what we do with corn and how much stuff is derived from that, how much money is being made, and how, yeah, it's, I mean, it's, they wanna do the same thing on the fake meat side. If they could do that, then there's,

and they'll wrap it in health and helping people. Speaking of which, I was just talking with someone we know, I won't say too much about who they are because it's private, but we know someone who's gonna be in a lawsuit against Monsanto for their glyphosate spray, what's it called, Roundup? Roundup. Because it caused cancer. Young man, young man.

Rare, rare form of cancer caused by that. And there was already a precedent that somebody already sued Monsanto for this and won, I don't know, like 50 million or something. So. Did you talk to him about that? I meant to ask you. I did.

Oh good, good. He was asking me a lot of questions and maybe Sal's a better person to talk to about this stuff so I'm glad you helped him out. Yeah, crazy. It is crazy. Real young, good. He was asking me a lot of questions, and maybe Sal's a better person to talk to about this stuff, so I'm glad you helped him out. Yeah, crazy. It is crazy. Real young, 30. You know, 30 when it happened, so that's, wow.

Lots of fertility and everything as a result of the whole thing. Really crazy. Anyway, I got a funny story to tell you guys. So, had a bit of a bad dad moment in the car that day. But it's like, I'm sure you guys will feed me. So we were in the car, we were coming home from some friend's house yesterday,

and I just got my car back, it just got fixed, right? So I finally got my car back. And my kids love driving it. Revenant and speeding. Yeah, they love it, right? They like the sound a lot. So I got them in the back, we're coming home, and I'm driving, and this dude pulls up next to me

in his souped up whatever, it was like a his little race car and he's revving his engine and kind of taking off yeah and I'm like excited I'm like because my son loves me revving the engine yeah so we pull up to the light and of course we're the first people of light so now we're at the red light. My wife told me a story while I'm thinking of my head about what I'm gonna do so I said said, hey, hey, hold on real quick. The light turned green, we take off and of course she's pissed off at me, right? And my son in the back and my daughter in the back. And she's like, why are you teaching him to do this?

And I pause for a long time, because part of me is like, I don't like to be told what to do anyway, because that's just my nature. And it's exciting, the kids are having a good time, but then I'm thinking about it, and I'm like, man, I have this issue, because my dad did this when I was a kid.

And I know what I did as a teenager with a driver's license and I'm like, do I want my son and my daughter to think this is okay to do? So it's like a big wake up moment for me. Yeah, and I'm like, I gotta stop. Oh, those things. Oh yeah, dude. You can think about it, you have a, especially.

No, no, it's a valid point. He's, you, okay, here's what happens. So that's how I got it. As a dad, you think it's a valid point. He's you okay. Here's that's how I got as a dad as a dad you think of what a fun What a fun moment my son and I are sharing he's smiling laughing But then I'm also creating this connection of going fast revving engine for my kids So then when he turns 16 and he wants his first car He's gonna want some loud and fast and what's he gonna do?

You know like so if you put if you can actually wants them loud and fast and what's he gonna do? So if you can actually put yourself in that dad situation when he's 16, how do you think about it? Do you think the lack of exposure of you doing that would prevent him from doing that anyways? I think it would help. I did it anyways. Yeah.

I'm just saying, I don't know, I've thought about that same thing and it was kind of like, oh, like cringe, but at the same time, like, so I've been trying to just do little bursts. So it's like, okay, there's an opening here. You know, I'm going to unwrap, I'm getting onto the freeway. There's no cars. Like if the environment looks like it's like a safe enough way to do this or it's uphill, I tend to do it more when I'm going uphill. But again, this is very nuanced way to handle it and I'm lying to myself.

But at the same time, they like going fast. Of course they do. If you can kind of sort of guide them in terms of like how to do that in a safe way. I'm gonna defend you, Justin. I'm gonna defend you. I defended Sal a little bit at first, but I'll defend you a little bit here because there's also this idea that we're gonna bubble wrap these kids, you need more than they're already and a little risk and a little danger might not be a horrible thing. Do you really think your kids think you're Ned Flanders?

No, no. Okay then, so what, you're gonna create an unrealistic version of yourself to portray yourself that way? No. That's where I'm at. That's where I'm at. I'm not gonna like pretend that's not me.

So what are you gonna do? You're gonna tell your son, hey, when you have sex, you know, work on them nine out of 10 times. Listen, okay, okay. Yeah, one time, you know, one time. Yesterday, we were in Max's new room, right? We're in his new room yesterday, and one of the first things I taught him

is how to run off his bed and launch into the bean bag. Different. I mean, is it? Yes. It's teaching him something that he could get hurt that's dangerous, it's okay, the level, yes, come on. This is the funniest conversation ever. There's a part of me that's I struggle with this

too souse it's like I'm trying to number one car out those moments of death for teenage drivers especially males is accidents yeah it's a top top cause of death and let me call one second okay let's be I'll be honest real quick the shit that we did I'm with Justin my dad, I know. But OK, but imagine if your son did it. Yeah, but I'm with Justin. My dad did it. I don't have any memories of a dad in a car. No, my dad never got on it.

I have zero. I have zero. And let me tell you, I did some crazy shit in a car. I knew he was into it. Really crazy shit. And I knew we'd go to drag races, and we'd talk about it and all this stuff. And I'm like, dude.

And so I was just out on a limb experimenting on my own. That's how I was too. I just don't want to be in. I don't want to encourage it but my dad my dad encouraged it when I was a kid my dad there's a story that's the first person has been in my car where I've like got out and he's like everybody else that scares the shit out of him when I step on it Everybody else is like this. I told you when he was, my brother and him went on a long drive once in their own separate cars and they raced on the way home.

My brother was 18, maybe 17, and they both got tickets racing. And the cop was like, you're racing your son? And they come in the house and my brother shows my mom his ticket, my mom starts yelling at him, and he goes, I was racing papa. So he got in big trouble. That's another level, that's great. Cause he was doing the same thing.

But here's the, I mean, what an awesome story, what an awesome. Yeah, thank God it turned out. I know. I think I was okay, I know. I don't know, I just, we are, we do tend to like over protect these kids. I think I do too much of that. I'm trying to be better with that with my son.

My son is timid and already, like he's like, your son were, you know, go down side, backwards on the stairs when he was little, like he didn't fall. Like, so I actually am like encouraging a little risk in his life, you know, go down side, backwards on the stairs when he was little, like he didn't fall. Like, so I actually am like encouraging a little risk in his life, you know, that's why I was the dad who was teaching him, jump off the bed, come on, watch you watch.

I think I would have a wife that calms me down too, because it is like that, I need a balance. I think the key though is like, I'm never gonna let my kid own a fast car until he's much older. That's like a stupid, you ever see that? When dads buy their kids like a. Bro, I would never, let's never. I had a buddy whose dad bought him a fast car until he's much older. That's like a stupid, you ever see that? With dads by their kids. Bro, I would never, let's never.

I had a buddy whose dad bought him a fast car, his first car, and then he wrecked it. Yeah, my son will get like a four cylinder or something. Yeah, yeah. That's a weed drug though. Get one of the brand new rust things and just like spun into a ditch. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it's in a real, I like the conversation because I think about it a lot. I really do. I think it's a, and I get your point I obviously get Jessica's point because that's Katrina who's yelling at me You know I'm saying same same type of stuff and I wrestle with yeah It's probably not the best thing to teach my kid this and that but then I also Want my kid to take risk in life, you know, I guess I guess certain ones

They probably should or shouldn't but it's like I almost feel like as a society We've over corrected in that direction so much that yeah There's there's an argument to be made on Justin's side of like, you know what like again we talked about this off-air I don't even think we really talked about it like how we don't even notice kids with like Casts anymore. That's true. Yeah, they're just no like don't break limbs. They don't break bones. They don't like You know get road rash. Well think about it was always we made all the playground We made all the monkey bars only four foot high We made all the all the ground now either sand or that now even the foam I get that foam or soft rubber

More injuries ironically, so yeah good. Look at look at the studies. Yeah, I'm serious Have you guys ever seen playgrounds from the 50s? Yeah Yeah, they look fake the average kid you saw that doesn't believe it. No, the monkey bars are like as well as the throw They're so tall And then it slices you I sliced my toe almost off. Oh because the yeah Yeah, cuz I went down a slide in my they caught my toe. I mean to me that's that's a very good comparison to The risk at what you're taking by doing that request. I mean we all agreed fifty years ago That's what it was for your kid like now apparently going no way in hell

I know like my wife would never let Max climb something like that yet every parent did every parent Yeah, I broke my arm in the monkey bars, the high one, like my dad was playing softball and I just fell right on my arm, broke it. That was the same year I broke it, twice in one year. And it's like, dude. I'm like, same arm? Same arm.

Oh, I was ambidextrous for a while. It was pretty great. Yeah, because of that, it's not a bad thing. That's crazy. I got a study on probiotics for you guys. Another study supporting their use for strength, for muscle strength. There's one for older adults. You've brought up a couple now in this direction. Is that purely because you've been yourself researching that direction or does it seem like there's more and more stuff coming out

related? It's actually becoming established that the use of probiotics will improve muscle strength. Way to go, Seed. Yeah, and I'm doing, yeah, so this, the reason why I'm researching it is because our- So if you have a healthy gut that helps allow you to produce more of a central nervous system response, is there some like relationship there? I would think it's recovery and adaptation

and building muscle, right? There's a connection to more lean body mass too. It's not just the CNS, it's also muscle. And they're not, by the way, this- We know this even, you've talked about this anecdotally You've always talked about man when I get my gut right I can put five ten more pounds of muscle Well, so here's what the studies though. They're not taking people with poor gut health Oh, they're not taking people with IBS and giving them a probiotic. These are normal healthy people

Oh interesting and they're giving probiotics. That's even more interesting. That's right. That's even more interesting. You've got people that necessarily don't have big issues like you. Yours is obvious, right? You're digesting, absorbing better by doing that. But you're saying people that were already fine don't have any problems, and they're still seeing positive. And I'm researching this because our partners see it, right?

They're a probiotic company, really like them, they're one of the best ones. They are the best in business. I'm constantly looking up studies on the benefits, because probiotic benefits now are psych. It's one of the things that has, it's one of the supplements you can take that has just far ranging benefits

from mental health to skin health. Of course everybody knows digestion. Athletic performance, it's actually becoming, the studies are showing it to be a better athletic performance enhancer than most supplements. Trip off that. Trip off that probiotic is better than your muscle building amino acid blend.

Definitely not marketed that way. Not with, in healthy people is what's really interesting to me because it was obvious to me that why you would, when you're with your unhealthy or with your gut issues to take that, that just makes logical sense that you're not your all systems will be operating better therefore that will that would operate better but for somebody who's not having issues to be able to take that and then still see benefits it seems that there's something else going on there than just that so

that's that's really cool that's really cool. Z-biotics is a pre-alcohol drink that you drink before you drink. It's a genetically modified probiotic that breaks down acetaldehyde. What is that? It's one of the negative byproducts of alcohol consumption. So when I take Zbiotics and then I drink with my friends, I feel way better the next day. It's real. It works.

Check them out. Go to zbiotics.com. That's Z-B-I-O-t-i-c-s.com forward slash mind pump two five, use the code mind pump two five, and get a discount. Back to the show. Our first caller is Sarah from Michigan.

Hi Sarah, how can we help you? How you doing, sorry. Hey, thanks so much for having me on. I'm really excited to chat with you guys. But thank you for all that you do. I found your podcast in the last year and I learned so much. Just really appreciate the way you guys synthesize what can be really complex information for those who are not professionals in the field and make it easier to understand and comprehend. So a

bit of background, I'm 35 years old. I have been into health and fitness for about the last like 10 to 12ish years. It started when I worked out lifetime in college. Fast forward to the last five years, so during COVID, I did not have any home gym equipment. So I reverted to cardio only. I did this seven days a week, never missed a day. And I was counting calories about like 1500 I never missed a day and I was counting calories about like 1,500 a day, which I know is not ideal. In the last one to two years, I was missing strength training, so I got back into it. More so doing like random workouts here and there,

but I do feel like I know what I'm doing in the gym, so I could put together a workout. It was more so just not overly structured, like a leg day, a upper body day, and so on and so forth. But in the last year I became more consistent which is when I found you guys and then soon after bought Maps Anabolic which I did at the end of last year and I absolutely loved it. Nutrition wise I stopped tracking my calories in the last couple of months just because I have been diligently Doing so for years and I know what I'm eating

I think I was just kind of getting into my head a little bit more than anything Like if I saw on my tracker, I didn't have much more that I quote-unquote should be eating But I was hungry like I was just in my head So I'm probably now eating around 2,000 calories a day. What prompted me to write in was that I compared a photo of myself to three years ago, and I honestly didn't see that much of a change. And I was kind of surprised because as compared

to three years ago, like I said, I got back into strength training, definitely upped my protein. So since I did track all that years ago, like I said, I got back into strength training, definitely up my protein. So since I did track all that years ago, I can see where my protein was at, which was probably honestly a third of where it should have been. And I've eaten more calories and strength training. So just my question is, if I was your client, how would you guys direct me? Would you say I just need to be consistent and keep doing what I'm doing?

Or do you think it's more of a change up in nutrition? I would shake the shit out of you. Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. I got a question. I'm gonna shake the shit out of you. I'm looking at your photo right now. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I got a question for you.

This might actually help a lot. Do you wear glasses? Are you not? I do not. I know what your problem is. Your problem is you have a distorted view of yourself. You look very different. I can clearly see you've built more muscle. Huge difference. Let me ask you a question. Are you stronger than you were three years ago? I would say so. What do you mean you would say so? It's either yes or no. Are your weights

heavier? Yes. Well, I'm saying that because I don't know that I diligently track the weights that I was lifting, but for what I was doing, yes, they were going up and yes, I was feeling a bit stronger. Okay, well when you started MAPS Anabolic, did you get stronger during the program? Yes. Yeah, okay. You built muscle, you're stronger, you look different. Definitely glad you stopped tracking.

I would also recommend you stop studying yourself in the mirror because there's a bit of a distorted image going on here. you're going in the right direction I mean you don't have you didn't have to say anything if I just looked at this picture I could look on the right and be like oh yeah more muscle healthier hormones look better yeah you're doing better you're doing much better you looking you looking you look incredible and you've you've made way more of a change than you think you have and you know if when I have clients like this that we we have this bit of a change than you think you have. And you know, when I have clients like this,

that we have this bit of a disconnect with our own body image, this is a great time where I actually, I would love to see like a DEXA scan of you in 2022 versus 2025, because just look at your physique, I guarantee you have less body fat, you have more muscle,

your hormones are probably better if you did a blood panel, you're stronger, and on all cases, even just looking from what we're looking at right now, I bet you you would have seen... You even have superior lighting in the three-year-ago photo. You don't even have the same lighting. If you had the same lighting, it would have been even more obvious. Continue to eat more food. Keep lifting weights and stop over training because I can guarantee you... So let me ask you this. I already know the answer, just based off your background. You're following max maps anabolic. What else are you doing? So I didn't have anabolic the end of last year and then I was gonna just start it up again

I'm not currently doing it right now Otherwise, I I love walking so I get my steps in every day and yoga. That's what I would do on the days I'm not strength training. I sometimes I do like a once a week green mile run. Oh, you're good. That's great Oh, you're good. Great. Keep bumping your calories You're gonna build so you're gonna you're gonna continue to get great curve great muscle great sculpt your body fat percentage is in a great place I would love to give you muscle mommy and then I want to put you in the forum so anytime you have this feeling I can just virtually shake the shit out of you. So I'll have Doug put you in the private forum, I'll have him send you muscle mommy and then you when you're

feeling like you're not making progress you can just dip in that forum and then talk to us and then we'll talk some sense into you again because I think what your protocol you're doing is absolutely perfect. Like running occasionally just to keep that endurance up every once in a while. Walking mostly, following a three day a week, you've increased 1500 to 2000 calories. Yeah, Sal said I would bump another 200 to 250 calories and keep heading down that path and see how high can we get these calories and still maintain the physique that you have going on and you're just going to continue to build muscle. And if you have, when you think about your goals, what is it a physique you're looking

for? Is it a feeling you're looking for? What is it that you want? What do you desire most from lifting weights and training? Yeah, it's more the physique I'm looking for. I think that's where I get stuck on comparing the photos and just wanting to look more so like I work out as much as I do.

Sarah, if you wanna do photos, don't do them more than 30 days, don't do them any less than 30 days apart, but you gotta make them identical. So same lighting, lighting same clothing and then don't just do a front photo go front side and back because then you can see the development you'll see the difference in your glutes your hamstrings your posture but you got to make them as identical as possible otherwise it's

gonna be more difficult for you to see the differences and even though I think you made incredible results in your time, if you wanted more, what you could have done was actually increase calories more. The reason why to you the results don't seem as dramatic as they are to you and you could have potentially done more is just simply if you would have given your body more calories, you would have built more muscle, which would have given you more curve, more shape, And it's just getting out of that fear of, you know, oh my God, am I putting body fat on? And so if you can just, if you can stay away from that fear, and that's why I want to put

you in the forum so we can kind of continue talking you off the ledge that you're doing good, keep going, keep going, because that's what, that's what will give you more. If you want more of a physique and you have this idea of a shape that you want more of, more calories is necessary. You just, you can't, you can't, I don't care how great your training program is, if you don't feed the body enough calories, protein, nutrients in order to build the muscle, you'll just do a good job of maintaining. So like you could easily maintain the body you have by just kind of doing what you're doing. You'll, you'll look great, you'll look healthy, you're incredible. But if you want more, you want more shape, more curve, more muscle, then you got to increase those calories. That is going to be the ticket to see that.

And don't be afraid, even if you put a little bit of body fat on, you can always come back the other way. So don't be afraid to push the calories a little bit. I mean, if I was coaching you, this is what we'd be talking about. Just be like, all right, Sarah, we're going to pump the calories. I don't care about your scale going up one or two pounds trust the process I got you we can always come back the other way But it's necessary if we're gonna build we want to build this physique you want I need that I need the material to do it. I need those calories Let's go build it and then we get to a point where you're if you get unhappy then I'll just say okay

Let's reverse. Let's go back the other way I'll lean you out and you'll be happy with what you've seen. So trust the process. You're doing the right stuff as far as your programming. Just kind of bump those calories and be consistent. Yep. And focus on getting stronger. That's going to be an easier metric for you to follow because it's objective. The mirror might be tough for you. So look at, are you getting stronger? If you are, you're moving in the right direction. Okay. That's super helpful. And then just one quick question for the calories. Like would you suggest us kind of jumping up to the 2200 since it's not that big of a difference or would you do like a hundred and then?

Especially, especially since we're going to transition you into muscle mommy. So a new program, a novel stimulus, it has a little bit more volume than anabolic does perfect time to right away. Start to ramp those calories. And do at least 200 to 250 because what might happen is you might bump and you might not see anything move on the scale. You might just or you might get leaner and so if you do that, that's your sign to go again.

So if you're able to add 200 to 250 calories and not see any bump on the scale go up at all then go ahead and give it another 100 calories or more from that and just continue to. And then again, if you have questions and you're going through this, just tag us in the forum. If you have a question about the diet or what's going on, just shoot us a message, let us know what you're doing and what question you have,

and then we'll continue to help you through this process. Okay, awesome. That's super helpful, I appreciate your input. I knew, I thought maybe this would go towards a calorie route but I wanted to make sure to hear you guys. No good job. Your gut was right you're doing great. Good job and get your ice checked. Thank you guys so much. Have a good rest of your day. Bye. I'm so glad we have pictures that we can post. Because when she said oh I don't see any change, I looked at the picture and I went, wow. How wild is that, that there's,

I know, this is like the, so the audience. That's why you have to have people take side to side, front to front. You know what I used to do with my clients, I don't look that different, and then I would, I would place one over it, and you know, on top of the other, I would be like, look at you. Oh, I would break, I would take her through

an entire body, go, see your shoulder right here? Look at this, look at where it was. Isn't that weird though? Yeah, I know. Isn't that amazing? We just don't see it. But it's, I mean, talk about how, and thank God she was patient, she trusted, she stayed in this long, but what happens a lot of times is people go three months, whatever. Here's the other thing too. They course correct. And the other

thing is that she's so focused on what the mirror shows, which already you can already see, she didn't see what the mirror was actually showing, and she ignored all the other signs that she's moving in the right direction. Strength, energy. Yeah, dude. You know, you look every day, you're not gonna see that progression.

And there is some truth to like, could she have seen more results? Yeah, I mean in that amount of time, I could have built more muscle on her for sure. But the calories are too low. But the calories are too low. So what she did with the calories she gave her body is incredible

I mean for you to only only Bump 500 calories and still put together a shape like that is incredible. Had we gone more aggressive on the calories She could have built more our next caller is Andrew from California. What's up, Andrew? What's happening? Hey, gentlemen, you are real. All right man. Hey, gentlemen, you are real. All right. Yeah, we're not AI. Yeah, no, 100% human aid, right? That's right. That's right. What's going on? Hey, real quick. So I've been listening for a long time and the evolution of the podcast has been pretty impressive. So I wanted to give a shout out to all the spouses and the staff there who, excuse me, who is encouraging, support you guys, allowing you guys to do your best because you guys, uh, truly are changing lives.

So appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Andrew. So let me just jump into my question. You know, read it here real quick. So, uh, excuse me, 45 year old, uh, former college athlete since my playing days. I've been consistently inconsistent in the gym and been lifting around 25 years or so I tried every workout program and fitness trend that's come along over the years with mediocre results at best so finally

found you guys got the best results I've ever had using maps anabolic sorry excuse me at the point in life now where genetics injuries surgeries are catching up to me had multiple knee surgeries Finding it more and more painful to work out specifically deads in the back squats So I think my biggest frustration is just kind of like analysis paralysis at this point. So my question is What are your recommendations best alternatives for those lifts best way to program them into the maps programs and then specifically how can I program in the sleds that I can train pain-free as much as possible yeah great question yeah yeah very good one of the

challenges with high-level athletes athletes or people who are middle age, but then used to be high level athletes. I've trained a lot of people like you is what tends to happen is you have a bit of a skewed and it's hard to get rid of. It's like the skewed idea of proper intensity. So the first thing I'll tell you is always kind of check your intensity, make sure you train at a most of the time you're training at about 70%. Okay?

Which your 70%, your idea of 70% is probably a 90% for most people, so just keep that in mind. A good subset. I still identify as a 25 year old. As we all do. I mean, you just trained your mind. Reality's a bitch. You probably trained your ass off on a high level.

So box squats are a great way to do back squats. Okay. Yeah, it stops that change in direction at the bottom of the squat that can cause problems. So back squats, great alternative. Stand efforting really made that point years ago for us. I do them all the time. It's so much easier.

Doesn't require nearly as much mobility and control. I love unilateral work for him too. Unilateral work is great. The sled, anytime you do a leg day and you're not really feeling the mobility to do certain exercises, you could do the sled instead. And then deadlifts, a trap bar is, yeah, it's a much easier, requires far less mobility,

especially for the lumbar spine, or should mobility, especially for the lumbar spine, or should I say stability for the lumbar spine. So a trap bar is a great alternative for deadlifts. I'd love to give you a map of symmetry. I've done trap bar, and the biggest thing, it's just knee pain, right? Anything just loaded, I didn't get super strong, but I was pulling sumo for a while,

I got to like 400, and box squats. I got up to, I think 300, but any more, even those alternatives, they just hurt. Yeah. Like physical pain. So yeah, I, you know, I love symmetry. Yeah. Symmetry is a great program. Symmetry is what I'd put you on a split stance into Bulgarian squats. Like it's going to do so much more for your stability and strength. And slow, and so when you get, because you're a strong guy,

you've got a lot of strength, obviously. Slow the rep down and don't add weight. Make it feel harder without adding resistance to the bar. And that'll probably serve you a lot better. Yeah, here's the reality of like, okay, so, and I've been through this whole process of like athlete and like what's in my mind, what I'm capable of doing and versus like what reality has set in.

It's really about now taking your body through a lot of movement patterns and doing that with less intensity. And so that's why I emphasize mobility so much is because we're not experiencing those movements anymore. You had a lot of exposure to that back when you're playing and you're on the field or you're like, you know, you had less responsibilities.

You had a lot more open time to do all these movements, articulate your joints and express all of that. You don't do that anymore. You do a few things for a short window of like an hour, and you're trying to scram it all in and pack it all in there. So you gotta give your body some grace and really just take a lot of time moving

and twisting and moving laterally and doing all of these things that you used to do to express that complements this strength, this power, all that stuff. So, because if that complements this strength, this power, all that stuff. So because if we're just working on the strength aspect, now we don't have the support system intact and you're going to feel the pain. You feel the knee pain, you feel a hip pain, all this comes to culminate.

So to really kind of like backtrack and allow yourself to really build back up that volume of movement, I think it's important. Okay. Incredible advice. If you were my client, it would be map symmetry right now, with the emphasis that Sal's saying, slow down the tempo, focus on that, don't do more low, just slow it down, maybe a pause,

do some isometrics within the movement or whatever. I think that's, and then the next program after that is maps performance. And the way I'm communicating it to you is that, I really don't give a shit if you add another 50 pounds on there, I want you to perfect the movement. I want you to be obsessed with mirroring what the model is doing and making it look beautiful.

And so that's the goal is like, when you go into it, it's like, how perfect can I make the movement? Versus, how much stronger can I get? I know you hear us all give that advice a lot. It's like, just can I make the movement? Versus you know, how much stronger can I get? I know you hear us all give that advice a lot is like just focus on getting stronger Just focus key on stronger a guy like you doesn't need to hear that like a client like you Does it have already has that that switch? You know, I like I'm having to pull that back a little bit on you But like this is where I'm going to Andrew

I don't really give a shit if you add more weight right now. I want that movement to look perfect I want you to feel balanced. I want it to slow the tempo. I, and that's kind of how I'm communicating your workouts. And then when the time comes, we can turn up the intensity a little bit, but that's how I'm coaching you is we're going to go symmetry. And after that we're going to be performance and we're going to be obsessed with the movement. And it addresses kind of what's, what Justin's talking about.

You could also before, before bed, static stretching is really good for stiffness and pain. Mm-hmm. OK. So static stretch. So if you have knee pain, static stretching of the quads, static stretching of the hips, do about 10 minutes, 15 minutes before bed every night, that has a pretty big impact on just inflammation and pain

in general for guys like you. But when it comes to strength, strength is amazing. But at some point you start to get diminishing returns. The risk versus reward ratio starts to become not advantageous. So if you're squatting 300 pounds, you're pulling 400 pounds. Yeah, you're still strong.

Yeah, if I add 50 pounds, you'll get some benefit, but the risk that comes with that, it's not worth it. You're better off going lighter and slower and focusing on mobility. You'll get way more return. Okay. And then like real quick specifically, like I want to have a sled day, like go push for 10 minutes, go push for 50 feet forward, backward.

I would replace any sort of leg exercise. So this is kind of how I would do it. It's like, we were going through the program, I told you, and then let's say you come in to see me for our session and we're on the second day of map symmetry, where I'm like, Matt, Adam, I'm just, the last time we trained legs, my knees are still feeling it, my hips are still feeling it.

I'm like, hey, well, you know what? We're not gonna do those squats or lunges today. We're gonna push the sled. So use it as a way to pull back a little bit on the intensity, but still get a good workout, because the sled's an incredible workout. But it doesn't do as much damage to the body. So insert it, because the truth is, it's inevitable,

especially in an ex-athlete like you. You're going to overreach. You're going to have a day where your body just isn't feeling it. And whatever leg exercise is called for that day in the program Get rid of it and do a sled. That's how I that's how I would implement the sled By the way with the sled If you do it a lot just do it at a real moderate low intensity and there's a couple ways to do it

You could push it you can also pull it You can you can attach a strap on your knees by the way great for your knees you get pulled laterally too So don't don't discount that. It's a huge factor. Go lighter with that, obviously, but you're gonna get a lot of stability strength work there that you're not getting throughout your day. Yeah, we have videos on our channel

of the different variations of sled. So push, pull, lateral. Like, that's a full leg workout right there. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. Hey, Andrew, are you, we're gonna send over Symmetry but are you in our private forum? No I'm still old school. I'm a

anti-social social guy. Alright. YouTube's about it. I watch your, the shorts and your stories, your journey on YouTube that's about it. Okay okay well just communicate with us if you have more questions. The only reason I was asking is like, you know what you could do too, is that when you're having this aches or pains, if you do a video so we could see your movement, sometimes there's something that we can peer into that we may not be seeing right now or hearing right now.

So that's one way to use it. But if you just reach back out to us, let us know how you're going through the program. I think symmetry is going to do wonders for you. And then the sled is going to be anytime your legs just aren't feeling like it then replace the leg workout with your with your sled. Alright cool, appreciate it. You got it. Alright Andrew. Thank you. See you. Sled is super underrated as a tool. It's probably, I hate to use this term because it's so bastardized, but the most, probably the most functional single tool

when it comes to lower body, just overall strength, mobility and function, because when you're driving the sled, you're pushing off on your toes. It's pure concentric. Yeah, you're extending your ankles, your knees are involved, your hips are involved, your upper body has to stabilize. You don't need a lot of skill to do it,

so the risk of injury is really low. I would program it way more often if it was more accessible. It's one of those things you have to kind of become an evangelist and really try to plug it into everybody's mind, the value of it, and get it in gyms. But yeah, it's such a valuable piece of equipment in terms of risk, reward, it's it's such a valuable piece of equipment in terms of risk reward and in volume and strength So I get I get asked a lot about the the exact programming of it

And there's a lot of different ways a lot of ways of skin and cat, right? So it's not like this is the one way only to do this whatever I just find it It'll work its way in there I've never met somebody especially ex-collegiate athlete who doesn't overreach sometimes or doesn't come in and complain about knees or back or something bothering them and it's like to me like that's just the easy that's a perfect go-to it's like hey today's my day I'm supposed to be training squats or doing the thing but oh man I'm just feeling stiff my knees my hips like dude let's go do sled work it's like instead of like trying to like say oh his sled days are on this day and it goes it, let it organically. That's your leg workout.

Yeah, it's gonna happen. You're gonna have a day when you overreach training your legs, or your knees don't feel good, or your hips don't feel good. What a great day for the sled. Our next caller is William from Ohio. What's up, William? Hi.

How are you? Good, good. Thanks for taking my question. So I was looking for some advice on what to change about diet and training after starting TRT or if it needs to change at all. I'm 36 years old, 6'6", 300 pounds. I had my testosterone tested a few years back and it was about 200.

We still wanted to have children so decided to hold off on TRT for a while. Now I have a two-year-old boy and another one on the way due in October. And actually as a side note, we tried for the second one for about eight or nine months with no luck and about two months into making some lifestyle changes and strength training and eating better, we got pregnant again. So I know that's not a coincidence and we're excited about the next one on the way. Congratulations. Awesome. Oh, thanks. Thanks So I've been working on making the small incremental changes that you guys talk about all the time. I started strength training dramatically increase my protein and fiber

Not always hitting it every day, but a lot better than I used to be I started taking creatine Doubled my daily step count from 4,000 steps a day to an average of 8,000 steps a day. Sleep is really good right now, although that's probably going to change in about six months when the new one arrives. I'm not tracking any calories, just eating intuitively,

making better food choices, eating more whole foods, meat, vegetables, potatoes, potatoes rice that type of stuff I've seen good progress so far definitely getting stronger Adding weight to the to the bar every week pretty much I've actually lost about six or seven pounds not really trying to cut any calories or anything yet So I'm really happy with where I'm going. I got my testosterone retested a couple weeks ago and it was 300 now, so up a little bit from what it used to be, but still low for my age. So I have an appointment soon to start TRT.

So I guess just looking for advice on do I keep going with what I'm doing? When do I start a? fat loss phase How do I know when to when to switch? I wouldn't be looking for some advice on that. Yeah, I wouldn't do that Yeah, I think you actually are in a really good place heading the right direction If I gave you like if I was like, what's the one thing or the what's the biggest thing? I can do right now without throwing the whole kitchen sink at you. It's like Beat you said you said it already too, like you're pretty consistent, but you're not all the way there as far as hitting,

hit your protein intake every day. Like make that a non-negotiable, because that paired with the TRT and what you're already doing, you're going to build muscle. And if there's anything that will slow down you building the muscle is you missing protein days, is inconsistency with that. So I wouldn't even get you worried about calories yet worried about cutting yet it's already hearing what you're doing like you got a great program what you're doing how you're what you're what you're following the steps

everything you're doing is good real good yeah even like your intuitive eating is great the one thing I would just say okay if we want to turn it up a notch and really get the biggest bang for our buck in this TRT, let's just track protein. Let's just agree you ain't missing, you know, your 240 grams of protein every day and just be consistent as shit with that. That, paired with TRT and what you're already doing, I think you're gonna see a beautiful exchange of building muscle and losing body fat. You're already cutting. You lost weight already and all you did was go to whole natural foods. I think you're gonna continue to get leaner doing that. And then when you add your testosterone and get your testosterone levels up,

you're gonna build more muscle and burn more body fat from that as well. So I wouldn't do anything really different. Adam said it, just be more consistent with your protein. Did you say you're following one of our programs? I'm not, I have Prime and Prime Pro, and I have that paralysis by analysis, so I've been debating like anabolic or 15 for a while,

trying to decide which one to start. I've kind of experimented on my own with that, kind of did a little bit of a three-day weeka-week full body, then I did a little bit of like a two exercise per day type thing. What'd you like better? Personally, what did you enjoy better? I think I like the three-day-a-week better, but I also think I also know that when you miss a day, you've missed your whole workout. So I'm gonna send you maps and a after you have your baby do math 15 yep and there's more there's so much more that goes into programming with workouts then you know full body

three days a week two exercise a day type of deal there's a lot that goes in yeah so you're gonna notice a big difference from kind of you know you're doing yourself versus following what we wrote you're gonna see a big difference you following anabolic and not missing protein and being on TRT. Yeah, you're gonna before and after you're gonna be incredible Yes, yes, and just do that when they're not 15 when you have the baby Don't get crazy with with anything else because you know what that's like you already have a kid Yeah, you got a year ahead of you know bad sleep. That's a perfect time to go to 15 I guess perfect right now take advantage of anabolic when that kid comes and the sleeps going go to 15. It's a perfect time to go to 15. I think it's perfect right now. Take advantage of anabolic. When that kid comes and the sleep's going, go to 15.

It's perfect. Best option. All right, awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I'd love to hear back from you too. I think it's gonna be, I think you're gonna have a cool before and after, dude. So I'd love to hear back from you. Yeah, that'd be great.

All right, man. Thanks for calling in, man. Yep, congrats again. All right, thanks so much. You got it. Yeah, he's already, it's funny. He's like, uh. Doing a great job. Yeah, I'm just seeing intuitively and not really paying attention and should I cut I lost seven pounds. You're already cutting. Yeah It's happening rise, you know, I look we've said this so many times if people just Eliminated processed foods ate till they were satisfied and hit protein that moves the needle lot

I mean most men would fall probably somewhere within 3% of 15% body fat up or down, and women would fall right around 22% for the most part within 3% up or down. You just fall there, just take it as though it happens over time. I mean, I love hearing a story like that. Like he really is just taking some of the simple,

which is also, by the way, like I just wanted to give him something simple, right? Like, you know, you're already doing such a good job. If we're going to turn the knob just a little bit more, you said it already that you're not another notch. You're not consistent with it. Be consistent with it. You'll be consistent with just protein alone paired with everything else you're doing. You're going to see great results. Our next caller is Jason from Texas. What's up, Jason? What's going on? Hey guys, how's it going? Good. How are you? Well, number one, guys, appreciate you guys just

fielding my question and having me on, man. It's an honor to be able to talk to you guys. I really respect what you guys do and bring to the table in this industry. And I love your speaking about just your life, your faith, just the variety of things that you do. Appreciate you having me on. Thank you, man.

How can we help you? Well, I guess the gist of my question kind of comes down to essentially the idea of progressive overload. I've been strength training for probably 30 years of my life. Um, like a lot of people I've gone through, you know, different seasons of my life. I went through an unhealthy season of my life and 2017, I found myself pretty close to 300 pounds at one point. After a kind of a weekend away from our kids, my wife and I decided to make some changes. Kind of got our lives back in order. Spent the last year, spent the next year or so, year, year

and a half, losing weight, getting healthy again. Ended up dropping about a hundred pounds and stuff like that. And I love my lifestyle now. I love everything that I do. I love the working out. I love just the, everything I do to maintain what I did in 2017. I think we're in this golden era of information in the fitness industry. And you hear so much about the idea of progressive overload and, and if you're not gaining strength, you're not gaining muscle and, and I don't want to be spinning my wheels, but I'm 45 years old now and, and, you know, I've reached the strength plateau. I know strength's not linear, but I've definitely probably reached a plateau.

You know, if I do try to increase things, increase lifts here and there, I start to get some 45 year old strains, things that I'm just not necessarily willing to push or deal with, you know, in my neck and things like that. I mix up my routine, I change my pacing. I do a lot of the things that I can, but I still don't seem to be getting stronger. I feel healthy. I still think I think I see positive changes in the mirror. Am I okay? Am I just spinning my wheels? Am I still gaining even though I'm not seeing those strength gains necessarily with that plateau. I can just tell by looking at you, you're real fit, dude.

You've been doing this for a while. You can't get stronger forever. I mean, the reason why we talk about strength so much is because the average person will benefit, 90% of our audience will benefit from getting stronger. There's a focus, especially. But those of us who've been training forever, you can't get, I wish I could get stronger forever. If could, I'd be better, you know, trucks by now.

It doesn't work that way, so at this point in your life being as consistent as you have been, you were a high-level athlete at one point, really it's just about doing it for the sake of enjoying it and not overdoing things. It's about being healthy, it's about improving the quality of life or maintaining a good quality of your life. I mean, think about it this way. Let me ask you this, Jason. You're 45 years old.

I'm sure you have a lot of friends that are your age. If you compare yourself to your friends that don't work out, don't wash their diet and all that, how different do you look and feel and how much different can you move? How different is your fitness than those friends of yours that don't do any of that stuff? Still 25.

Yeah. I honestly do. I mean, I still play sports, I still play baseball. I still play adult league baseball every weekend. You know, I'm catching two, three hours a weekend, stuff like that. And it doesn't, it doesn't affect me physically negatively. That's, that's what I love about just the lifestyle that I live.

Yeah, dude. Yeah. You're, you're killing it. You know what I mean? I think we all kind of go through this people that have been lifting as long as all of us have. You go through this kind of like, uh, you know, man, I haven't gotten stronger and so long, or in my case, I'm significantly

weaker right now than I was just 10 years ago. And if I keep comparing myself to, you know, peak strength version of me, it's I'm going to end up hurting myself trying to pursue that. It's like, why? Like, I don't I don't need to deadlift more than 400 pounds. Like, it doesn't mean no good to do that. Like, it's not going to move the needle any further. It's not going to make my life any better. It's not going to make my life any better. It's not going to make me better with my kid, better with my wife. It's like, I'm already strong fucking five times stronger than the average guy. Like what do I, you know what I'm saying?

And so you have to like kind of disconnect from, you know, what's the, what peak version of you could do in the gym compared to where you're at now and just be like, dude, I, I, you know, you live for something different today and you're, you obviously are in incredible shape and killing it. So I don't think you need to change anything whatsoever. Maybe, and it sounds like you've kind of, have you written like your own programs? Is that what you've done yourself? I do just throughout the years and then, and I'm a home gym guy. So I, I waking up in the morning, early in the morning changed my life, first of all, number one, that was the big, that's the crux

that made everything happen. And set up, you know, just with a squat rack and some 1090, you know, adjustable dumbbells. So I've been able to do a pretty consistent PPL, you know, a lot of this stuff that I've, and to be fair, even since I've submitted the question, a lot of this stuff that I've and to be fair, since even since I've submitted the question, a lot of this stuff, just things that you guys have brought up listening to the to the podcast, just things about, you know, changing up on your, your

pacing over the summer. I'm a high school teacher. So in the summertime, I'll have more time. So I'm going to do some unilateral training, things like that just to try to switch things up. The studies that you guys have talked about creatine, I'm a big fan of the creatine, but then the studies that you guys have talked about increasing creatine and doing a couple doses a day. I have seen changes just in the last six weeks, just doing that. So I've been, I'm fairly competent. You know, I'm all about the advice. I love listening to people.

Anybody, I'll take advice from anybody, but I have been able to more or less maintain my routines throughout the year and make some changes. You know, Jason, what's beneficial for someone like you is rather than chasing results, is to chase different skills. So new exercises that you haven't done in a while, learning a skill like a Turkish getup or a bent press,

or a different kind of skill that's athletic, like biking or perfecting running, whatever. Yoga, like that's a great way just to continue to enjoy your body's ability to move. I think that's a great way just to continue to enjoy your body's ability to move. I think that's one of the best ways. I mean I would love to hear from you. I mean I don't know how much you've gone through our all of our different programs as far as the library knowing what we have but I'd love for you to choose something and I'd love to give you a program that you could follow

based off of maybe either a new pursuit or something that you I mean even though you can, you could do what you're doing and be fine, right? So I'm not telling you, you need to change anything. I think your plan and what you've done is incredible, but you know, why not, why not try something that we've written for you and see if you enjoy it. Inspiration, for sure.

So I mean, you got any of them that you've looked at that you were interested in? any of them that you've looked at that you were interested in? And forgive me for not knowing the names of a lot of them, but most recently on my brain is the one about the, you know, the dealing with the unilateral training, something that I would like to implement over the summertime. Yeah. I love, I love you doing that. I love symmetry too because it's the first two phases are all unilateral and then you get to go the final phase is bilateral so you can test how much that improved

your strength and stuff. So yeah I would love to give you symmetry. So let's give you that and follow that but all in all though bro what you're doing is great. You're in a great place and Sal's advice I, is so true. What's kept me going all these years is I got to change the focus. I got to, whether it be a skill or a new lift or a mobility goal, to me, what keeps guys like all of us going forever is not just focusing on one just strength or just how

I look for too long, because you will. Eventually, you peak that. You also want to feel good. Yeah. just focusing on one just strength or just how I look for too long because you will eventually you peak that you also want to feel good yeah so yeah change it up like that change it up with like goals and you know what a great way to do that is all of our programs are goal focused and so I love to see you do something like old timey or do something unique or performance like we've got some cool programs I think that would be that would suit you and having a focus for you so you don't have to think of it yourself is not a bad strategy but we'll start you with symmetry I think that would be that would suit you and having a focus for you so you don't have to think of it yourself is not a bad strategy but we'll start you with symmetry I think that's a great place to go. That'd be awesome that'd be a I would

love to try it out it's I look forward to it absolutely. Well we'll send that over to you Jason. Okay guys I appreciate it keep doing what you're doing and you know everything that you do as far as sharing your faith your lifestyle just everything I love it Thank you. Thank you very much for everything you do You too. Thanks guys. I mean he's doing he's killing it playing playing an elite baseball Yeah, no, bro, he's a hundred pounds more head of her pound well, he was really fit before and let himself go Yeah, what happened? Yeah. Yeah, I know. Bro, he's 100 pounds ahead of 100 pounds. Well, he was really fit before and let himself go. Yeah. Yeah, I guess that's what happened.

Yeah. Yeah, I like skills because you're always learning something and each skill offers something different so you end up naturally balancing yourself out. The byproduct is your body benefits. It does. Listen, I would be a very depressed person if I compared my top physique and top strength all the time.

Yeah, oh yeah. I mean, if you've been lifting long enough and consistent enough, at one point you're going to see the peak of those things. And then if you always compare yourself to that peak shape as whether you're successful or not, oh boy, that's going to lead to trap. Yeah. It's depression, injury, like just the wrong path. Right? So at some point too, if you're doing this and you're doing a good job, the goal is just to keep it. I mean, at some point too if you're doing this and you're doing a good job The goal is just to keep it. I mean at some point that's what happens You know, you're 45 55 65, you know, you're 65 years old and you can maintain The fitness you had when you were 45 you're like a champion. Yeah, you know and that's possible

if you do things, right so And then after that it gets to the point just down the decline, because inevitable happens as you age, as you get the decline. But again, the difference between you and your peers is crazy. Yeah, look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump.

Justin, I'm at Mind Pump DeStefano. Adam's at Mind Pump. Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal,

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