Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2583: The 5 Best Ways to Do Cardio & More (Listener Coaching)

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Starting point is 00:01:02 Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we answered listeners' questions. People wrote questions in, and we picked some and answered them on this episode,

Starting point is 00:01:21 but this was after the intro. Today's intro is 53 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness, science, diet, fat loss, muscle gain. It's a good time. By the way, if you wanna write in to Mind Pump so we can pick a question, go to Instagram at Mind Pump Media.

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Starting point is 00:02:23 We also have a sale this month. Maps, HIIT, and the Extreme Fitness Bund give you 15% off. We also have a sale this month Maps hit and the extreme fitness bundle 50% off if you want to check them out go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code April 50 for the discount back to the show Cardiovascular training there are real benefits to training your cardio System in today's episode we're going to talk about the five best ways To do cardio or how to apply cardio based on what your goal is. I'll start with the first one. If you're looking for functional stamina,

Starting point is 00:02:53 the kind of stamina that tends to translate to everyday needs for stamina. And athletics. Yeah, HIIT training. HIIT training will give you that in a very short period of time. Give you that kind of stamina. Would you include I also think it's it's I love that It's the first one. I don't know if you did that on purpose or not, but it's like

Starting point is 00:03:11 When most people are doing car obviously for cardiovascular health right for heart health. Mm-hmm So is it does it equally check the box as somebody who we would do say that something more like long distance Do you know what I mean? Oh, yeah, I feel like, to me I feel like that. That's so tough to answer. I know, I know it's a bit nuanced, but I mean, if I'm like, what is the least amount possible I have to do to get the most amount of change or most amount of value, I'd say,

Starting point is 00:03:37 out of doing any sort of cardio? 12 minute hit checks a lot of those. I think it's too, it's like how you're applying it, so it's like less impact on the joints as well. So you bring the wrists down a bit and like do something with like a bike and make it, you know, a hit session. Also skeletal, I mean, for sure impact wise,

Starting point is 00:03:54 that's a no brainer. But I'm even talking like, listen, I'm not training for anything particular, but I strength train consistently. I know the benefits of cardiovascular health and why I would want to do cardio. Is 12 minutes enough hit for me to really reap the most benefits from?

Starting point is 00:04:14 Yeah, a couple, two days a week would do it. But the problem is who's applying it, right? If I'm talking to the person that's overstressed and we're kind of dealing with that, you got a new mom or dad, you know, whatever. Like I'm not going to do high intensity, you know, if we're talking about longevity and health, I'm not going to apply high intensity interval training

Starting point is 00:04:32 today. I'll save that intensity bucket for the thing that's going to give them most bang for the buck, which is strength training. Then I'll incorporate some other form of cardio that's maybe more recuperative, right? So, but I'm focusing here on just specific, you know, specific goals here.

Starting point is 00:04:49 Now, now people have heard us talk on the podcast many times about how cardio is not the best form of exercise for specific aesthetic changes. It's just not like, if you want to look a particular way, uh, strength training is superior because it sculpts the body. Yeah. It helps your body

Starting point is 00:05:05 burn more body fat on its own. I could pick areas of my body to target and develop. Cardio in general isn't a great way to do that. It'll do it for you, it's better than nothing, but it's not the greatest way to do it. But people confuse that conversation with us saying don't do cardio. The reason why is because I would say something

Starting point is 00:05:23 even stronger, it's not even a good way to do it. Right. You can like picture the cover of a magazine if you're a guy, girl, doesn't matter. Pick the most ultimate body and physique. I can get you to that physique and never do any cardio. That's right. I can't give you that without strength training. Impossible. So to me it's not even a close comparison. It's the only argument in my opinion is the health argument. Yes. Is it somebody in a hundred percent? It is, it is very good for you for that. Yes. But if you are coming to me about looking a certain way or burning body fat or sculpting your butt, like,

Starting point is 00:05:58 it's not the best tool for it's not even close. No, I think good. No. Now that being said, I mean, it is good for health. You do want to train the system of the body. For performance, specific types of performance, you need to do this for the most part. And I will say this, healthy always looks good, right? It always looks good. So improving your overall health

Starting point is 00:06:19 is probably going to make you look better. Strength training tends to be the foundation of that. If again, how you look is important to you. But to go back to what I was saying, functional stamina, I use that term and it's like, okay, what does that mean? The kind of stamina you might need in your everyday life to like chase your kid because they're running out to the street

Starting point is 00:06:38 or you're gonna go play something at the park or something like that, like that kind of stamina, two or three days of 12 minutes of hit, we'll give you that. Well, I mean, think about any time in your life, for the average person that's not playing a sport, when do you ever need more than 12 minutes, you know? You won't.

Starting point is 00:06:56 No. Going after anything. Just, yeah, small bouts. And that's the other thing too, is just practicing like moving quickly. I think like, hit is a really good option for that because that is a skill and if you lose that skill that you're more susceptible and vulnerable to injury.

Starting point is 00:07:10 That's right. Next would be for longevity. What's the best form of quote unquote cardio for just overall health from the rest of my life? Walking. Walking at a brisk pace. There's nothing that is better in the long term for your longevity than walking. Now that's not to say that the other stuff

Starting point is 00:07:28 we're gonna talk about won't improve your longevity, but there's a skill requirement, there's an injury risk issue, there's how often am I gonna be able to do this consistently? Can I do this throughout the day? Do I have to change into workout clothes? The skill again, like I gotta learn this skill of running or cycling or whatever.

Starting point is 00:07:43 Walking everybody can do, walking everybody can do pretty much any time, and it's just great for overall health and in our experience as trainers, it's the thing that people can do consistently. They just, they do it and if they get into a rhythm of it, it sticks with them for the rest of their life. It's so mechanical to me, like if you just look at the body,

Starting point is 00:08:01 like I mean, if your car is just sitting there, it's riding away and all the systems in the car are gonna work Well, it's like you have to express all these things and to do that without too much intensity and you know something That's like pretty leisurely like walking is the perfect way to do that You know I know we've talked about it before and we've shared the story of back when we were trainers and the Technologies started to evolve and the body bug came around and we all have individual stories, which by the way, I mean, we weren't even in the same gym.

Starting point is 00:08:30 This is just, so it's like a great example of like that we all came to the same conclusion of, Oh my God, I have clients that on their off day of training with me are burning significantly more calories. And that what that was just they were active. They went to the mall, they went shopping, they were mowing their lawn. And when I looked at the calorie expenditure for the day, it's like, I know I kicked their ass on Wednesday

Starting point is 00:08:54 at an intense, back in the days when I didn't know what I was doing, it was just all about crushing your client. And I crushed them on that workout, and they only burned this many calories. And on a day they didn't even come to the gym, they burned this much. And so when you think about, and we, so aside from health benefits, recovery benefits of walking, what most people are interested in is fat loss and getting in shape. I quickly realized like, oh shit, this is even a better, better modality for that. As far as like keeping their calorie, their calorie and balance in check. And so, and it's the barrier to entry is so low that it's like, it's not hard to say, because you can be in jeans and cowboy boots like Doug and

Starting point is 00:09:32 go, Hey, go for a walk for a half hour. And he could do that. Maybe not in those heels, but most people could do that. It's also one of those interesting forms of activity that has a recuperative effect, right? So when you're under high stress, you gotta be very careful with exercise intensity because you just push your body over the limit and it becomes detrimental. Walking is a great way to actually help your body

Starting point is 00:09:57 deal with stress. And I don't mean just like, let me get the stress out, let me go beat myself up, but rather, does it actually physiologically assist my body to handle stress and recover from stress? It does. Such a good point. It's so, it's actually really easy to overdo cardio. Yes. It's really hard to overdo walking. That's right. You have to walk a lot. A lot. A lot. A lot. And also be really abusing your body elsewhere. And move weird to go fast. It's like it doesn't really look good.

Starting point is 00:10:27 But it is. I mean, the art of applying intense cardio in order to see fat loss results or performance results, there's a real art to it. There's a fine line of too much, not enough, whatever. Walking is like, it's tough to overdo that. Like, do it. How much you do it, do it more. It's like, it's just, it's an easy thing to

Starting point is 00:10:48 recommend and for the average person, it's an easy thing for them to decide, oh, is that enough or can I do more? And for longevity sake, again, when you look at populations that live a long time, the exercise component they tend to do the most is walk a lot. They tend to live in cities that encourage this. So they tend to walk a lot to the grocery store.

Starting point is 00:11:04 They walk a lot to, to work and it just works out that way. And it's just a great longevity form of cardiovascular exercise. Next up is for long lasting endurance, right? The kind of endurance that we tend to think of when we say endurance. Well, this one's just steady state, moderate forms of endurance, cardio. So this would be like getting on elliptical or doing a slow jog or riding your bike for long periods of time. The intensity's moderate and what this develops

Starting point is 00:11:31 is the kind of stamina and endurance you need to do those types of activity. This takes more time. So, you know, whereas cardio is, you know, 12 minutes, 15 minutes at most. This you're looking at 30, 45 minutes, sometimes an hour. But it's also, again, if you want that kind of long lasting endurance, then this is the way

Starting point is 00:11:49 you're gonna have to do it. This is the mindless version of it too. It's like there's a benefit to that because it's like you're kind of just moving in the same direction and you kind of get into this rhythm to where a lot of times all that chatter in your mind, for me at least, it's almost meditative at that point. Now how would you,

Starting point is 00:12:07 because I would almost categorize these as the same. Like walking for periods of time versus steady state cardio are really one and the same. They're close but one's more intense. So you're gonna get more endurance from the steady state than you are from the walking type of deal. So it's really just an endurance. So you're thinking like the heart rate's like kind of zoned to, you're upping the heart rate, steady state than you are from the walking type of dude. So it's really just an endurance.

Starting point is 00:12:25 So you're thinking like the heart rate's like kind of zone two, you're upping the heart rate like we're walking, you're zone one still probably and it's real leisurely. This is like I want the kind of, I want endurance that allows me to ride my bike for an hour and a half on the weekend. Well then you gotta train this way, essentially. Whereas walking won't necessarily give you that.

Starting point is 00:12:42 This kind of cardio will. This is the traditional cardio that most people associate with cardio. When they get on the machine at the gym and they stay on there for a while. You know, type of deal. Although I would say a lot of people are a little higher. Yeah, they're going a little harder on there

Starting point is 00:12:56 because they're, again, thinking that the more I sweat, the more I do, the better off I am. Next up, you want endurance for your sport. The best way to do that is to practice your sport. There's no better way to improve your endurance in a specific way than to practice the way that you want the endurance to build for. And a lot of that is just the wasted energy. So to be able to practice it and hone in on the efficiency and the effectiveness of that particular movement, your body recognizes it more efficiently and then you don't struggle through that movement

Starting point is 00:13:32 quite as much, which then burns all this wasted amount of energy. Yes. This is true. I told this story on a recent podcast where I was training very consistently Brazilian jiu-jitsu. I was competitive. This was like my highest level I had ever been and I had a buddy who was a boxing coach and he took me through some mitt work.

Starting point is 00:13:50 And now at the time with Jiu-Jitsu I could go, I mean I could do you know 30-40 minutes straight going through different opponents with good stamina. Here I was hitting the mitts and 10 minutes in I was like I wanted to die and I was like what's going on here? My body different enough. It didn't have the efficiency that I did with jujitsu. So what happens with the specific type of endurance is your body learns how to conserve energy because it develops a skill of that particular.

Starting point is 00:14:18 Law specificity. Yeah, so you could have great endurance doing a workout, try a completely new skill because your body's not good at that skill. You're just getting totally gassed. I mean there's some carryover, but it's very minimal. You're right. It's like, you know, obviously you doing nothing was

Starting point is 00:14:32 It's worse. It's worse than you doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu like that. I mean if you put it on a scale of zero and 10, nothing is zero, I don't know, your Jiu Jitsu maybe gave you five towards that thing, you know what I'm saying? So it gave you better than the guy who you're gonna But boxing would have given me a 10. Exactly. Yes, yes. I don't know, your Jiu Jitsu maybe gave you five towards that thing, you know what I'm saying? So it gave you better than the guy who you're gonna. But boxing would've given me a 10.

Starting point is 00:14:46 Exactly, exactly. Yeah, so, and by the way, I remember there was a show that they, I can't remember the name of it, it used to be on the, I wanna say the Science Channel. Oh, where he goes to learn everybody's like martial art. Yeah, and they did this test where they had a pro. Isn't that the one they did all the different, knife fighting and all the different arts going on

Starting point is 00:15:03 in the world? I think it was. Yeah, he would learn it and then try it, yeah. Yeah, and they had, I think it was Randy. What was it called? Oh God, I don't remember. It was awesome. No, it was a rad show though. It was such a cool show. And they had Randy Couture,

Starting point is 00:15:11 I think it was Randy Couture I want to say on there, and he was doing a rear naked choke on a dummy that was measuring pressure and then they were measuring muscle activation and they were seeing how long he could keep the pressure for and what they found was his muscles were instinct, without him knowing, because he had such good technique, were switching activation to maintain tension.

Starting point is 00:15:29 Whereas the average fit person was just gas out. Just ever doing it with certain muscles. His body became extremely efficient. So you see this on studies with athletes where a geek out on that. An athlete will burn so many calories doing the sport that they're good at, they'll switch to a different sport, super fit,

Starting point is 00:15:43 and their body burns tons more calories because their body doesn't know how to do it. It's such a subconscious thing that people are in. It's so cool that your body is designed that way to just over time, it's like, okay, we have to get efficient at whatever this thing is. That's right. And I don't want to say cheating, but it's figuring out all the ways it could hack into conserving as much energy as possible, even subconsciously.

Starting point is 00:16:03 You're not even actively doing it. You're not like, oh, yeah, it's awesome. Lastly, uh, for muscle. All right. What's the best way to do cardio to help my strength training? Uh, high reps, short rest periods. The way, and by the way, this is, this helps, this helps you build muscle because if you're gassing out on your sets, you're not able to get the

Starting point is 00:16:23 most out of your sets and look, look, bodybuilders for decades have been saying some of the best things, one of the best things you can do for your legs are sets of 20 reps of squats. Bodybuilders have been saying this forever. Okay, power lifters that switch to bodybuilding have said this, like, oh my God, I started doing 15 reps, 20 reps,

Starting point is 00:16:40 my legs exploded, right? Do you know how many, you need a ridiculous amount of stamina to be able to do this. A ridiculous amount of stamina. So training this way, if you need that stamina to be able to complete those high rep sets, well then you got to practice that. Well this, okay now this, and I love this is last that you put this, because this to me really explains the philosophy of how we try and communicate like, because most people

Starting point is 00:17:02 are trying to get in just good shape, they want to look good or whatever that they also don't want to sacrifice health. But if you incorporate you every, every two to three months, a cycle of a month of 20 reps of all the exercises you're doing and you do 12 minutes of hit also intermittently throughout your training, you're going to be, you're going to, to for most people you can run a mile and probably beat them without ever even training a mile just from doing that alone. That'll give you enough stamina to be pretty damn good cardiovascular wise and I just

Starting point is 00:17:35 think that most people don't want to do that like I mean because if you've ever done 20 reps on a barbell back squat it is bro it is rough. The monster. Yes, it is rough. In fact, I was reading up on one of the most famous bodybuilders with great squat, great lower body, Tom Platts, and I looked this up to confirm it, because I don't remember what the exact number was. Crazy.

Starting point is 00:17:59 Here's the confirmed number. This was the confirmed number. This was witnessed by many, many people. They reported in a magazine. He, insanely strong lower body, incredibly fit. First he demonstrated how strong he was by doing 10 reps with 500 pounds in the squat, which is crazy.

Starting point is 00:18:13 Then he did 225 for 10 minutes. He squatted 225 straight for 10 minutes. You're telling me that's not stamina to do it? That's ridiculous. You're telling me that guy can't go run a mile? Yeah, I don't know if he could. He might start a fire though with his legs rubbing. His legs are so big, but that's not stamina to do it? That's ridiculous. You tell me that guy can't go run a mile? Yeah, I don't know if he could. He might start a fire though with his legs rubbing because his legs are so big, but that's crazy.

Starting point is 00:18:29 100%. That's insane. Alright, so I read something yesterday that really annoyed the hell out of me because of how just the lack of integrity, and I get that a company's job is to make profit, and I don't want to change that because then that puts the consumer in charge.

Starting point is 00:18:51 But boy, can they be sneaky and tricky and slimy in how they do certain things. So right now the awareness around artificial dyes has exploded, okay? Everybody knows red dye, they're actually gonna ban it. That's where it started, right? But all the dyes, all the artificial dyes have been connected to neurological issues

Starting point is 00:19:11 and health issues in children, in animals. And so we're really trying, and this awareness is, especially since RFK got in charge of all this, and there's data, there's data to support a lot of this. This isn't just some conspiracy theory, there's lots of data. In fact fact like again FDA banned red dye so what does the food industry do with the dyes what do you guys think they did with the dyes because they're not all banned it's just the it's just red move it over

Starting point is 00:19:35 to add a molecule to it so it comes up as something a little bit different but it's still the same thing even easier you guys so when you're looking at the food label yeah what are you looking for when you're looking for the dice you're looking for change the name of it blue number two or you're looking at yellow number five or whatever right yeah you know what they did what they just changed the names of them so blue number one if you look at your food label is now called brilliant blue brilliant blue number two is now called positive like fucking reinforcement to there some of them they even try and make a sound.

Starting point is 00:20:06 They should have been so, healthy red. Yeah, too obvious, too obvious. Blue number two is called Indicatine. Green number three is called Fast Green, which is weird, Fast Green. Fast Green. Oh, I'll get this for my kids. Red number three is called Eurythrocyne.

Starting point is 00:20:24 Red number 40 is called urethrazyme. Red number 40 is called aloe vera red. Yellow number five is called tartrazine. Yellow number six is called sunset yellow. So you're gonna look at the food label and you're gonna look at this and it's gonna say, sugar, wheat, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, sunset yellow and most parents- Can we just talk about the brilliance of this though?

Starting point is 00:20:44 I mean there's just Because here's what you know Adam Kent shut off his business So if you're, if you're, as you as a business you know like Listen, we're not gonna get Quick pivot We're not gonna get that health nut Barbara. She's fucking, she reads everything She knows, she's up on up on the side

Starting point is 00:21:00 But what we're gonna get is all of Barbara's friends Who she's talked to and some of that And they're kind of aware like, oh I should out for red dye, you know what I'm saying, but doesn't really care that much, isn't paying attention. But they are now because Barbara's always in their ear, and they flip the label around now, and they don't see that thing, and then they're still gonna go eat it or buy it.

Starting point is 00:21:13 Oh, they're yellow 40, but majestic yellow? And that's a majority of people. Yeah. They're not gonna win over the people that are super on top, they don't care. How would you know if you're not the, like, I wouldn't know. If I saw that as a health and fitness expert,

Starting point is 00:21:29 I would just say, what is that? And then maybe I wouldn't even think twice about it. Maybe I would look it up, but it would require me to look it up. If I saw sunset yellow. Brilliant blue. I mean, what's sunset yellow? What's that?

Starting point is 00:21:41 Fast green, what's fast green? What the hell's going on here? So, okay, I don't know. I wouldn't even think, it would actually make me maybe at the most pause and look it up. I had to see this. I mean, if I can't pronounce it or I've never seen it before, I'm like automatically.

Starting point is 00:21:55 That's why they changed the name. Yeah, flat. Because it's no longer, like yellow number three, you know that's a chemical, right? Tartrazine? I don't know, maybe. Sunset yellow? I don't know. Fast green? Peptide? That might be, yeah dude.

Starting point is 00:22:08 Isn't that frustrating? That makes me so mad. But that's the food industry. You know they did that with sugar by the way when you look at the back of, because people got afraid of sugar, so then they would go dehydrated cane juice or whatever. They would do stuff like that. Yeah. Sugar. So you said you went business. I have to bring up because I had it on my notes to tell you guys. I hadn't had an opportunity to bring it up. Did you guys see what Budweiser was doing for advertising? I thought this was so smart. I thought it was so cool. Dylan, did you see it? Did you see what they did with Ovechkin? Okay. So Alex Ovechkin is who we, you know the jersey we bought for Jordan Shallow? Yeah. The hockey player? Yeah. He just passed Wayne Gretzky in all-time goals. He's the all-time scorer now. So he's like, yeah. So did he do it in the same period of time as Gretzky? That's a good question. I don't know if it was the same period of time or not. Cause I know that's the Jordan and

Starting point is 00:23:00 LeBron argument. So that's a good question. I'm not as proficient in hockey as I am in basketball, so maybe Doug can look it up. But what I thought was the right away, the Budweiser thing I thought was so clever. So they created these special cases that got sent out. I think there was 38 of them. Maybe you look it up, Ovechkin Budweiser campaign and sent it out to the only 38 goalies that he didn't score on. So like and they made this huge campaign about it and so they're like these collector these collector things and they all got I forget what they named him or what they called them maybe Doug can pull up so you guys can see but it was I thought it

Starting point is 00:23:37 was so smart. Oh there it's right there. Yeah 28 goalies. How many? 28. Yeah 28 goalies that he didn't score on. He scored on so many goalies. many 28 yeah 28 goalies that he didn't score on he scored on so many goalies yeah and then they create this whole campaign and hyzer bush is really just switch their every well yeah yeah massive they have king of zero campaign king of zero yeah yeah that great I think that I thought that was so clever yeah find out how long he's been playing to get that to break Gretzky's record and how long Gretzky played also since we're bringing up Oh either I mean remember we really we hammered them what a couple years ago like I how much do you think they turned around?

Starting point is 00:24:11 Did you look at their stock member? Do you remember what I said? They would be fine. I said they'll be they'll be fine They're virus. Well, no, I didn't see I can't just like I do I gotta buy what? That's how I win. Hey, listen, I've sat on this podcast some time. Do not take my stock advice. I am not that person at all. It is 100% gambling. I'm actually a better sports gambler than I am a stock picker, dude.

Starting point is 00:24:35 You are, dude. I am way better. You win all the time. That's why I get so frustrated with you. I'm like, I try and like, I've been on this kick for like last year of really those that pay attention to my gambling, because I tend to share it. I have not at all. And I've been like, oh, stock guy, I'm doing this, I'm doing this. And then

Starting point is 00:24:48 you know what happens? Well, what happened? So I've told you, I've, uh, what do they call that where you just consistently buy no matter what? Oh, dollar cost average. Yeah. Dollar cost average. Right. So I've just been doing that just consistent. Same amount. Yeah. Same amount, same time. Doesn't matter. I don't even look at where it is. I'm not trying to. And then what happens is I get some inside information that was Nvidia okay that was the other bad one I thought that's like oh man and I throw a little extra at it then I

Starting point is 00:25:13 consistently do every month and it's always those. It fucks my whole portfolio up. From now on Alex Ovechkin surpassed Wayne Gretzky in goals per season by scoring 895 career goals breaking his record of 894. Grekski played 20 seasons. Ovechkin also has played 20 seasons, achieving this milestone and so he beat him with the same number of games by one goal. Wow.

Starting point is 00:25:37 Oh. Is that right? According to this. That's freaking awesome. Wow. That's good. That is cool, right? So what I'm gonna do from now on

Starting point is 00:25:44 when you tell me something, Adam? You're like, did you buy it?. That is cool, right? So what I'm gonna do from now on when you tell me something, Adam. You're like, did you buy it? Yes. Are you buying it? No, I'll buy it. Okay. Yes.

Starting point is 00:25:51 Not gonna buy it. No, don't, I don't know how, I keep repeating that to the audience. It's consistent, it's consistent. Don't buy my stock picks. I am not, I am not at all claiming it. We know fitness, everybody. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:26:01 Hey, so I, so, so remember how we talked about great ways, like super foods, and I put sardines on there yeah and we got all like debate about it you guys like it's gross this and that yeah so I got sardines here now listen I even got now they're not prepared specially Dylan's got them here there it's got just salt and it even has the skin so I gave you the worst version of sardines just to see what you think. It's healthy though. It's extremely healthy, bro.

Starting point is 00:26:28 So take a little nibble. Oh my God. And let us know what you think. I'll take a real big one. You're a brave soul. Yeah, you do. But it's got the skin and everything, so. Yeah, I can smell it from here.

Starting point is 00:26:36 Don't even try to tell me what that, what is that? That's probably the spine. Oh, bro, come on. No. And also, tell me if it tastes like cat food, just, you know. It's not bad. It's food posterity. He likes raw fish, dude. I also, tell me if it tastes like cat food. Just, you know. It's not bad. It's like posterity. He likes raw fish, dude.

Starting point is 00:26:47 I know, he can handle this. It's a little fishy. Yeah, because of the skin. Yeah, it's a little fishy for me. Yeah, okay. We'll try it again without the skin next time. Yeah. Until you can get to the fish.

Starting point is 00:26:57 Props, dude, for sure. What I'm really curious about, I think Jim said it was a mustard. I would- Yeah, add mustard to it. I could see that, because maybe it would bring down the fish. Your inflammation looks like it's going down though right now. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:08 It's going to keep building these associations. That's how you get me right there. Your face is less fat. Wow. Your face is less fat today. Your face got chiseled instantly. That's how we close out of talking. Your breath's off the chains.

Starting point is 00:27:21 I mean. Don't kiss him, Justin. I mean it. That's the skin. It tastes like what you would think. It tastes a little too fishy for me. your breasts off the chains, but yeah. Don't kiss him, Justin. I mean, it, it, it, it, it, uh, it, uh. That's the skin. It, it, it tastes like what you would think. It tastes, it tastes a little too fishy for me. I don't know how you can sit there

Starting point is 00:27:30 and just eat a whole bowl of that. I don't like it with skin. I go skinless. Does it make that big of a difference? Yeah, it does. Oh, it does. So maybe if I do skinless, maybe eat a little bit of mustard or Tabasco sauce.

Starting point is 00:27:39 Oh, yeah. Then maybe. Bro, one can of that, you're getting so many, you know, high, I mean. Yeah, but I've seen shakes that you're willing to eat. You know, I'm not gonna sell you that I'm not gonna lie to you Yes, I guess I made tuna fish protein shakes. I was a kid. Oh, yeah and chicken breast. I throw a little chicken breast That's how bad you want it Justin You must not want it

Starting point is 00:28:01 Yeah, you can probably shame me and I've also not thrown my body words the 300 pound Did you record yesterday did you do some of your were you out right now? I was in Monday I did okay. So yesterday off you train today. I'll train today when I make it to Palm Desert Have you all tried your drive? I forgot you're driving down there today, huh? Flying down there. Flying down there. Do you train while you're down there? Yeah, they have a good, it's like a gold gym.

Starting point is 00:28:31 Are you going to the gym I used to own? No, that's the one I used to target. Is that the one in Cathedral City? No, no, it's right there. I don't know if it's Gold's or if it's like a World's. It's one or the other. I think it might actually be a World's. But yeah, I love training there, dude.

Starting point is 00:28:46 It's a great gym. It's like old school, you know, kind of has a bodybuilder vibe. Dude, Adam sent me a page on Facebook where they sell old school bodybuilding equipment. So people will post. And I saw on there, and I would have bought it, somebody else bought it, they were just showing it off. I saw on there the pullover machine have bought it, somebody else had bought it, they were just showing it off,

Starting point is 00:29:05 I saw on there the pullover machine we talk about all the time. The Nautilus one with the chain. I've done that one, actually I like that one. Yeah, listen, kids, you know, boys and girls watching this right now, anybody younger than me, they used to have machines, the best machines that I've ever used in my life, which they will never put in gyms again,

Starting point is 00:29:23 did not have a belt or a cable. They literally had a bike chain, and the wheel was like a spoke, and it just felt smooth. It's 100% only safety reasons why they got rid of it. Yeah, put your finger in there, you're gone. You're pink easily. That has to be the reason, right?

Starting point is 00:29:37 Of course. Because it's not any better to do it the other way. No, it's better with the chain, because it never slipped, it never frayed. 10 grand they still sell for. Wow. See? Talk about holding their value. Because it's better with the chain because it never slipped and never frayed. That is 10 grand they still sell for. See? Talk about holding their value. Well, because it's amazing.

Starting point is 00:29:48 But yeah, that's kind of wild when you think about it. You know what? New, new supposedly. Adam. What? You're the, you're the, you're the, you like buying things that go up in value. The asset. Can we have one of these?

Starting point is 00:29:57 Maybe that is like an asset. That's how you would give me one of that right there. Like, listen, these things are holding their value. They were, I think it was two grand 30 years ago. You know what I'm saying? Think of our lats. I mean, that's crazy. When you think about that, that's. Just think of our lads. I mean that's crazy. You think about that. That's your lads, man

Starting point is 00:30:08 I would have never guessed that okay. Thank you. We're give me an example Where you see some like that? Okay that not all machine I don't know how many years how many years old that is it's gotta be 20 30 years old I think the last time they made those with the 20 years once no more Okay, yeah, so 90 so 30 the early 90s. So 30 years ago. It'd be like in a gold gym that never changed. 30 years ago, that did not cost $10,000. No, bro.

Starting point is 00:30:31 It was maybe a thousand at most. Yes. Because you could buy a brand new pullover machine right now, high quality gym, like, you know, Hammer Strength right there, 4,500 bucks. They're selling the old Nautilus one for 10 grand because it gave you lack gains everybody. That's exactly why.

Starting point is 00:30:48 That's exactly why. I would have never guessed that it was hold value like that. Hey speaking of gains and stuff, you've been complaining about your sleep. Did you get your eight sleep back? So listen to what happened. So I told you guys that the mattress thing got like a leak or something in it.

Starting point is 00:31:04 And by the way, eight Sleeps has been incredible. Like- It was just getting too rough and- Oh, I don't even know. They actually wanted the, they actually, they asked me to send it back so they could kind of, it's so unusual for that to happen. And so I thought it was just a mattress.

Starting point is 00:31:19 So I finally got it. I was complaining about my, like, oh my God, I forgot like how much I depend on this thing. Finally got it back. And then all of a sudden about my like, oh my god, I forgot like how much I depend on this thing Finally got it back and then all of a sudden I'm like it's it doesn't feel like it's cooling down like as much It was doing something but it wasn't cooling down like that thing is like it really it really cools down and I'm like this doesn't feel Right and Katrina's like you all maybe that something's going on with the motor and that was why that maybe that's what led to the maybe something's going on with the motor. And that was why, maybe that's what led to the leak. Maybe something was off. And I'm like, because I thought it was fine.

Starting point is 00:31:48 So I'm like, you know what? It does sound like it's running a little weird. So let's send that back. Send that, well sure as shit, man. And I forgot, you know, before the AI kicks in, it's gotta learn. It's gotta figure out what to call it. And so you initially said it for whatever.

Starting point is 00:32:03 So I'm like, oh, cold as it gets, you know, holy shit dude. I mean, I mean, I've got myself in bed like this, like freezing. Cause I had it at 10 as low as it'll go. But it, and it takes about, I'd say about three nights of, of the tweaking. Yeah. Before it starts to settle back down. But it by, by it's been now, I think almost a week by, by one weekend, it's like, in the last couple nights, I had said something to Katrina, because she was like, oh my God, you're bad,

Starting point is 00:32:30 and so your side is so, I can't call it. She's like getting mad at me, and I'm like, he's gotta learn, he's gotta learn me. He's not there yet. And it's now learned. What it does is it monitors your movement, your sleep, your stages of sleep, and then it literally adjusts the temperature on the fly

Starting point is 00:32:47 and it learns your body. That's crazy. You know what's cool? You know what's a cool feature that I didn't have, I didn't have turned on before, that since I was going through this whole resetting anyways, I'm like, oh, let me play with that feature because I didn't really use it before.

Starting point is 00:32:58 So I'm using the wake up thing. And so there's two things. Oh, you've never done that before? Yeah, so there's two things. So I like it freezing cold, right? Minus eight is about where my body likes it. And then it, then it, it changes through the night and then around, I want to say six 30, I think is where I have it scheduled or seven in the morning. It starts to rise up to five plus five. So it's warm.

Starting point is 00:33:20 And then it also combines with, so that I haven't said it, I think seven 30 is like my, Hey, my ass better be out of bed. It'll start vibrating. So it has like a little, and then it's like real subtle. It's not like obnoxious, it's like, vroom, vroom, vroom, all these like little, just real, real subtle. Between the heat and then the slight vibration,

Starting point is 00:33:38 it's such a like incredible way to wake up. And I hadn't used that before. Do you guys remember, I mean, it doesn't jolt you out of bed like an alarm clock. Do you guys remember, I mean it doesn't, it doesn't jolt you out of bed like an alarm clock. Do you guys remember old hotel rooms? Where you put coins in. Magic fingers. In the bed! Coins in the bed, I know it vibrated.

Starting point is 00:33:52 That was the thing. Why? Yeah, I mean, some freaks. I know it was great though, I loved it as a kid. Wow. I bet. Oh my God. Were your parents a little like, uncomfortable?

Starting point is 00:34:04 You make everything dirty, Doug. Tell us more, Doug. Hey, little Dougie. Yikes! V-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v Does that stuff still exist? I wonder if there's gotta be stuff. I don't think so. You literally, literally was a bed. This is so cheesy. It had a freaking coin slot inside. Yeah. You put it in and it was like, shh, shh, shh, shh. It's called Magic Fingers, yeah. Oh. Is that what it was? Is that really what it was called? It's called Magic Fingers. I remember it.

Starting point is 00:34:35 Wow. You know, the iron, that's so- You know, so I'm always interested about stuff like this too. Like, that was probably a thing for, I don't know, at least a decade or so. Yeah. Bad in the water beds and all that. Like, who are the companies that, is this it right here? Oh yeah, how much does a magic fingers bed cost? That's something that went up in value. Yeah, you did. I kinda want one for the nostalgia.

Starting point is 00:34:52 I think it's a device that goes with a bed. Oh, so it actually wasn't the bed, it was just a thing that actually shook the bed? Yeah, yeah. You can put it on any bed? I think so, yeah. How much is it for sale? Find us some magic fingers for sale, I'd be really interested to see what that looks like I mean get those for the kids wake up. Hey, what a name

Starting point is 00:35:09 for that Rabbit hole dugs going down in vibrator Vibrated yes, no no you just put magic fingers Doug All that yeah, it's a weird-looking massage on its way be there by Tuesday Doug. Why is the history sale that weird looking massage room? It's on its way. Be there by Tuesday. It's all you want another one? Bed units.

Starting point is 00:35:27 Oh, so now they got the night, the new expensive ones. You know, 8 Sleep, so I don't have that, but 8 Sleep also offers a mattress that adjusts. And so there is a part of me that's curious to do that. I really like my mattress. And so I had it before we started with them, but I am curious because it's supposed to adjust if you're snoring. Oh that's great. It kind of sits you upright. That's great. Hey did you, I got to tell you guys about something funny I read about Doge, just one

Starting point is 00:35:54 little thing they did at the government. So you guys know Doge right? Yeah. The Department of Government Efficiency. Yes. And the stuff that they're showing is just some of it's just like what is happening. Dude. The most comical thing.

Starting point is 00:36:04 Crazy. The most comical thing I just read so they were they're going through trying to make everything more efficient and easier to use and whatever and they want on the IRS website and the login for it was in the middle of the page and everybody knows you should put that in the top right corner stupid just move the login thing from the middle to the top right so people know where to login because they were getting messages or whatever. So they sent it to whoever manages the page for the government.

Starting point is 00:36:30 Like, can you please move the login from the middle to the top right? And he's like, okay, should be done in. $80,000. Don't tell me they collected like way more than that. No, no, he's like, it should be done in 100 days. 100 days? So Doge just like went in there and fixed it in 70 minutes

Starting point is 00:36:48 And then they told everybody about it It was I'm so not into the Coins and stuff like that is the original doge coin related to that no, but that was like a joke It was like a joke coin. It is kind of weird. Well, I think he actually put it out on Twitter to kind of like coin like some kind of acronym for it. And then that was like what they came up with because it was like government, you know, it was related to like

Starting point is 00:37:19 a department of government efficiency, like just kind of lined up for that. And then it was like related to- So Doge was a meme. And it was just all funny. It had nothing to do with the Department of Government Efficiency. It was the meme of the dog.

Starting point is 00:37:31 Yes, there's a dog that was memed and they would call it the Doge dog, or Doggie, or whatever it was. Doggie Doge. And then that became a coin. That's the picture of the dog right there. I don't know if you can see it. Yeah, I see it.

Starting point is 00:37:42 Yeah, what kind of dog is that? It's really cute. Shiba Inu. There you go. Shibu but you know there you go yeah how'd you know that where do you see that you can kind of see the picture I can see that I can see the dog look up she but you knew so he could see what that looks like it looks like a corgi a little bit it's a Japanese dog that's why Doug knows it yeah it's a Japanese dog and they look like little cute puppies. There you go. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There he is. I want one of those. Super cute. Anyway, question. What is,

Starting point is 00:38:11 we have the Paley Valley meat sticks in the back and Jerry's always refilling them. Which one do you guys go to first? Jalapenos. Summer sausage. Oh good. So we're all different. You're a summer sausage guy, huh? Oh, makes sense. Oh, I like the buffalo chicken one. Oh, I'm not saying chicken one. I love it. I like the turkey one that they had. That was pretty good. That was only it was like cranberry turkey or something. It was so good. Where are you at? What are you out of that? I like

Starting point is 00:38:35 the jalapeno one. So I'm the only one eating the buffalo style chicken stick one. Yeah it's so good. Yeah I'll crush these all day long And the venison version of the summer sausage and all that too. Really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Super good. Adam yesterday sent me, not yesterday, it was like a few days ago, sent me a clip on the game peek-a-boo and why it's so valuable for kids. Did you guys watch it? Did you send it to everybody? I don't know if I sent it to everybody or not. I don't remember. So when children are really little, they don't have a concept of object permanence, right? so in other words, I could put like a I Could put like a pair of glasses on the table and a little kid will see it and then I'll cover it with a napkin

Starting point is 00:39:14 And the glasses are gone. They don't know it's under the nap So is this like a dressing separation anxiety like real early? Yeah, so they just don't know it's gone It's gone forever and they lift the napkin. Oh, there it is, right? So playing peekaboo-boo with little kids, really little kids, when you cover your face, they think you're gone. Their brain doesn't proceed that you're there. But then you move your hands and you're there.

Starting point is 00:39:34 And it's a great practice, because it shows, it starts to teach them. Yeah, that daddy's coming back. Sometimes daddy's gone, but then he's coming back. Sometimes daddy's gone, sometimes he's coming back. I thought that was really good. I love hearing stuff like that, that we've like historically done for so long. Not even know why. And never really thought about it.

Starting point is 00:39:51 Like who the hell came up with this? Yeah. Why would you come up? No, the best benefit is that they laugh. Well, what's a trip is, what I also trip out is like, you know that because of all the research study and stuff like that, that we've done recently, but we were probably doing it well before that. Oh yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:04 Like, so who? I think you just did it in done recently, but we were probably doing it well before that. Oh yeah. Like, so who, I think you just did it in the kid, like Justin said, makes kids laugh. Yeah. So you just keep doing it. That's like a hack. You think so? Of course. Who doesn't like making babies laugh?

Starting point is 00:40:13 Nobody's like, oh, scientifically, I'm going to help with their separation anxiety. Nobody's thinking that. We've been playing with the kid, dude. It's like, I love how they just come up with these things and they go, this is valuable. Well, I mean, you, I mean, you guys remember this when your kids were really little? I mean, dude. It's like, I love how they just come up with these things and they go, oh, this is valuable. Well, I mean, you guys remember this when your kids were really little? I mean, yeah, but we also, I mean, the pyramids, dude,

Starting point is 00:40:30 come on, so you just stumble, let's stack some things up in a triangle, we'll just see what happens. That's different. That's different. That's so random. They had some deep ass science going into that. It's like, how did you get to that, you know? It was demons.

Starting point is 00:40:44 Oh, demon technology. Demon technology. No, like, how did you get to that? It was demons. Oh, see, demon technology. Demon technology. No, I'd say, you guys remember when your kids were really little, like, you're, I mean, this is an everybody thing. Mom's dad, everybody. You make a little baby laugh. Whatever it did, whatever you did, you're going to do. You want to find that formula.

Starting point is 00:40:59 Constantly. Yes, that's fair. Just make them giggle their little butts off. Yeah, that's fair. And just laugh so hard. I'm sure that never changed. And it doesn't, do you guys ever watch that animated show? Just make them giggle their little butts off. And just laugh. I'm sure that never changed. Do you guys ever watch that animated show?

Starting point is 00:41:07 It's the one where the baby gets delivered by the stork. Storks? Storks, thank you very much. It's called storks. And the baby at the end, when the wolves catch the baby, and she hits the bird in the head and they laugh. So he's like, that's what it is with babies. If a baby hits you in the face and they laugh, keep going.

Starting point is 00:41:26 Let's just keep doing this. That's a good point. That's a great movie, dude. I love that movie. Such a good movie. Anyway, yeah, good stuff. So, oh, another good study on sleep, which is interesting. So are you guys familiar with aromatherapy?

Starting point is 00:41:40 No jokes, Justin. I mean, the real. I don't know about the science, but I'm aware of it because it's popular and like Katrina's clinic, they used to do it where massage therapy and stuff like that. So it's I sure it's like I'm assuming that it's like certain smells calm you and like that's why we're lavender. It's essential oil. Like that's where it kind of spawned off and

Starting point is 00:42:01 became an MLM because of the science. There is a, you didn't know there's a huge, there's a huge MLM hustle. Yeah. It's a big one. Yes. But there's probably an MLM for everything. MLMs target men versus women. Why don't you look at it? Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. You guys want to make a bet?

Starting point is 00:42:20 One out of every thousand. I don't know. I would guy, I'd say guys are just as susceptible. So I'm an MLM. No, no, no. And I don't think it's'd say guys are just as susceptible as... To MLMs? Women think? No. No, exactly. And I don't think it's that women are more susceptible. Well, you have Anway, you have the candles,

Starting point is 00:42:29 I mean, the women are going to take the cake. You know why I think... I don't think... They're the buyers though. Yes. Yes. And they're also... Exactly.

Starting point is 00:42:35 They also have lots of friends and connections. You get the average four-year-old dude, hey, sell this to all your friends. Yeah, you have to go... I'm done. I already called Steve. Yeah, I called him. They were just over.

Starting point is 00:42:44 Steve hates that shit. Yeah. I'll never be able to start this thing. Would you find have to go, I'm done. I already called Steve. Yeah, I called him, they were just over. Steve hates that shit, I can't. I'll never be able to start this thing. Would you find that? He called me an asshole. There are no stats on that, however, generally a greater proportion of MLM companies appear to cater to predominantly female demographics. Of course.

Starting point is 00:42:59 Yeah, but that's companies. I know. Women, women, they're the buyers. They're the buyers, but they're also, again, MLM is all about your connections, your community, your network. And men's network ends with one dude. And what's the last time we talked to him? I don't know, three months ago.

Starting point is 00:43:13 Doug, since you brought up MLM, what do you think about, have you seen the skepticism about like Patrick Red David and the insurance, all that, because like his company. How he made his money. Yeah. Yeah. There's a handful of these guys that have built these, uh, massive MLMs. And of course they don't promote it as an MLM, you know, but when they, when you pull back the curtains and you look at the financial structure of it,

Starting point is 00:43:35 it is, what is your take being in the insurance? Like, so here's the thing. I don't know all the details about his MLM, right? However, I do know the, the insurance business and independent agents, which I was an independent agent in the life insurance business is where you, you know, you basically start your own business and you work for companies. You can work for any company you want, but the, uh, the success rate is abysmal. Right. People who start that.

Starting point is 00:44:02 So it's a difficult business to get into and so with his MLM I'm sure it's the same story Yeah, that's how the critique like they I saw a guy break his whole business down and when you see it like this It looks oh my god it seems so bad because compared to every other world will do is it but this is like he has a thousand employees and Are they employees well independent people who have signed up? So I don't know the actual, but a thousand people that work for his business company

Starting point is 00:44:28 or whatever, right? And they'll show that one percent of them. That's probably standard. Yeah. 99% of them aren't even breaking minimum wage. Yeah. And Doug says it's probably standard. That's probably why he's, you know.

Starting point is 00:44:42 It is standard, but the fact that it's high profile and the fact that it's an MLM probably highlights it you know more for people and then they get upset about it is it's a tough tough business excuse yeah yeah all right all right let me get back to aromatherapy so I used to and shame on me okay as a and I, I didn't think about it since. I just haven't thought about it, but as a younger trainer, when people would bring up aromatherapy, like I'd roll my eyes so hard I could see the back of my head. I'm doing that right now. Yeah, because anything that wasn't like, you know, strength training,

Starting point is 00:45:18 cardio, diet, like whatever, right? But of course it has an effect. Smells have an effect on us. Duh, like, you know, bad smells have an effect, good smells have an effect. They affect the brain in different ways. Well, they did a study on some of these smells and sleep. You know what they found? There was a

Starting point is 00:45:34 226% boost in cognitive performance was observed in a study using aromatherapy during sleep. So during sleep, people were able to wake up and the next day have better memories of things and just sharper. By smelling certain smells while they were sleeping, the smells that they used were rose, orange, eucalyptus, lemon, peppermint, rosemary, and lavender. So every night for six months, this led to a drastic improvement in memory and brain health in adults who were 60 to 85. Just from smelling these things while

Starting point is 00:46:10 they were sleeping. Do you know that there are, I think lavender is one of them, I think basil is one of them, there's certain plants that put off smells that will repel insects. Of course. So I think that's really interesting too. There's certain things that you can grow in your garden or something that will naturally keep them away too. What I was gonna say about this, think about this, it's improving cognitive performance in particular memory.

Starting point is 00:46:32 Can anything trigger a old memory faster than a smell? And it's a strong, we've talked about this before. Nothing like smell. Like I'll smell something and be like, I'm there, third grade. I remember where I was sitting. And that's subconscious.. That must be deep because if it's in your sleep and you're smelling that and you're having better... I think what it's doing, so the olfactory circuitry is connected to the parts of the brain that are responsible for memory. So what's

Starting point is 00:47:00 probably happening is you're strengthening, exercising the memory circuitry while you're sleeping By smelling but just by sense. So now after you read that and that opens your mind a little bit What do you think about things like sound therapy and sound healing? Oh God cuz now you're it's again. I want But I mean Sam defexes so it's probably something there. Well yeah you saw that they, I mean I read this a long time I don't know if it's true but a lot of the bells in most cities that they had removed. Yeah. And like there's the resonance of bells like that has some kind of like some kind of healing effect of some kind. It puts a

Starting point is 00:47:39 vibration off too. Yeah. So you got to think that it's... Cymatics is yeah there's a whole like science. I mean so it's got to think that it's Cymatics is yeah, there's a whole like science. I mean, so it's interesting to me, right? I've never bought into it either. I've never done it. So like that, but I'm aware of it. I know clients that have done it and have been into it and they swear. I know part I'm always like, well, not not not as much anymore. I try to be a little bit different. But it used to be for me like, oh, placebo. You know, when someone says that,

Starting point is 00:48:01 yeah, someone was rubbing a bowl and the sounds healed me. Yeah, in my head is in my head. placebo. You know when someone says that, yeah, someone was rubbing a bowl and the sounds healed me. Yeah. And my head is, my head is like placebo effects. Really powerful. Yeah, exactly. But, I mean, do sounds affect you? Yeah, music affects us. Of course. I mean, yeah, you talk about all the time how certain workout music is- Of course. Get you, and then you change it to other ones when you need to be more calming and relaxed.

Starting point is 00:48:19 Of course. So, it makes sense. I had a great conversation with one of our with one of the mind pump clients outside on the way in. So I come in this morning early and Marcello's client is walking in. So people aren't familiar. To Valerie? We're offering, I won't say their name, but people aren't familiar. We offer online coaching and personal training, very limited, super limited,

Starting point is 00:48:41 because we're just really trying to build the best possible team. And the... Slow. Slow. Like the filtering process for us is ridiculous. Like you have to have the best character. Otherwise you're not going to work here. I don't care what your resume says. Um, and so, um, and we have a long, you know, process of internship, et cetera. Anyway, so Marcel's clients walking in as I'm walking in.

Starting point is 00:49:00 So I'm like, Hey, how you doing? How's your workouts going? And she's like, it's the weirdest thing. It was the best. It's the, it's the weirdest thing. It was the best, it's the compliment you wanna hear. She goes, I said, how was your training with Marcelo? Oh, he's so awesome, he's so great, he knows his stuff, I love working with him. So what about your results?

Starting point is 00:49:15 She goes, it's so weird, I feel like I'm barely doing anything, and my body's responding like crazy, and it doesn't make any sense. And I hear that, I said, that's how it's supposed to feel. It should not feel like you're clawing at progress, like you're scraping the walls and grinding for every little percent body fat loss and pound of muscle gain or whatever.

Starting point is 00:49:37 It should feel like your body's working with you and not against you, and that's exactly what you said on the way in, so really, really cool. I was on the call uh, call last. So last night was my turn to be in the transformation group that's going on and there right now, the phase that they're in. So remember, uh, phase one is reverse diet phase two is toggling back and forth between the cut bolt, cut bolt. And then the final phase is where we ramp up. And, uh, you know,

Starting point is 00:50:03 Kyle asked, you know, how did you feel when you went through this? I don't know if you guys remember, but this was when I got really frustrated. So if you remember, I was doing the body fat test all the whole way and this was the one where I didn't get the results I want. Now it was still positive, right? The whole way through I saw positive change, but the goal in month two was for me was to see myself reduce body fat and lean out. And I ended up building muscle. Man I didn't put any body fat on, but I also didn't lose any body fat, which that was the goal.

Starting point is 00:50:35 And so I'm talking to them about that part of the transformation process. I said, man, when you're in that kind of middle zone, you've already reversed dieted, you're not aggressively cutting, you're kind that kind of middle zone, you've already reversed eye on it, you're not aggressively cutting, you're kind of hovering. It's difficult psychologically. It's really hard because you feel like you're not seeing any fast parts. You know the things you're doing are important,

Starting point is 00:50:55 but you're not seeing radical change and there's that temptation to want to push it. And also in my case, when I was talking to this group about, is, you know, hey, I've been doing this for a really long time. A lot of people, done it with myself, a bunch yet, I still make mistakes here. Here I am in this, you know, one week bulk, one week cut, one week bulk, one week cut. And when I, at the end

Starting point is 00:51:16 of the month, I come back, my results are not in, you know, cry over spilled milk. But what I did go is like, wow, obviously, when I thought I was in a cut, I was probably more in a maintenance or even a slight surplus for me to end up building muscle and to not lose any body fat. And so the learning lesson for me was that, you know, even though I was pretty confident that I was making all good food choices,

Starting point is 00:51:39 I was eating out a lot. I was when we were traveling, we had flown two different times. We just weren't able to track properly. Yeah. And it made all good choices. I'll take the chicken salad and I'll have the eggs at the airport. And I did all these things to try and mitigate that. But when you don't have control of it and I don't know exactly how everything's made. And you're a fitness expert. Yeah. And so that was really the conversation to them is under... And so I was like, listen,

Starting point is 00:52:03 so when this month ends and those results come in, and if they're not what you want them is under, and so I was like, listen, so when this month ends, and those results come in, it's, and if they're not what you want them to say, don't turn it into a, oh, this doesn't work or screwed up. It's like, it's insight to what you're currently doing. And maybe you're like me, maybe you think you're doing a really good job, but you're not tracking as accurate as you think you are. And so you got to be able to go through these periods of time in a journey and not allow moments of not getting the results you want as this F it throw your hands up and quit but better reframe that as like even more insight to your own behaviors and yourself and how your body responds. The answer is there. Yeah and you're getting that one step closer or getting that one step better at this craft. And so, uh,

Starting point is 00:52:45 great journey. What a great journey you're illustrating Adam, because for someone who pursues fitness lifelong and they're doing it for the right reasons and they're developing a healthy attitude around it, you, you learn about your body. You learn about what makes your body do certain things and feel particular ways in a world that tells you to ignore your. In a world that tells you to ignore your body, in a world that tells you to stuff yourself and give into every whim,

Starting point is 00:53:14 this teach you so much about yourself. Think about the carryover that that has in every aspect of your life. Think about the times when you should go to the doctor and you didn't, or when you go to the doctor and you shouldn't have been. Make those micro adjustments were needed. That's right, it's like such an empowering journey

Starting point is 00:53:29 if you do this the right way, which is so cool. I told the clients, there's really two, the clients that follow through and do it right, there's two attitudes you're gonna have when you're done. And that is saying that you execute everything. I said, you're gonna have the attitude where you do it and you execute everything, and you're gonna have this like, holy shit, that's what it takes to move the needle in the direction I want to.

Starting point is 00:53:46 And you're going to have excitement around it. Then there's the other people that you're going to do all those things and then you're going to have the, holy shit, I had to do all that just to incrementally move that much. This is going to take a lot of consistency. And so no matter what, it gives you that insight. You get the answer. And you have to have, and you decide your attitude about that. But you know but unfortunately, we

Starting point is 00:54:06 put body fat on really fast and really easy, but it's a really slow process to get rid of it. And there's a really slow process to build muscle. And I think people have, their expectations aren't aligned with reality. And so when they go about a journey like this, and then they get the return that they're supposed to get for what they did, they're like, oh my God, like I didn't see, I didn't get, yeah, that doesn't happen that way. And this is what's kept you from getting it is like, you just need to do that for longer. Now, the thing I told him that was really positive,

Starting point is 00:54:40 back to what we've already talked about in this episode, it's like investing. I said, you know, the first few times you put a couple hundred bucks away and saved it or invested it, like it didn't make you rich, but once you start to build those habits and you do it for months and then years and then a decade, I said, let me tell you, one of the things I'm learning still today, and this is a part of the journey

Starting point is 00:55:01 I'm really enjoying and loving is now that I'm in my 40s and I've been doing this for over two and a half decades, it's actually really easy. I know exactly what I need to do to keep myself in that range with eating habits. I know I barely have to touch weights because I've built so much muscle from all those years and so it's just like the guy or the girl who's been investing for half their life and now they get to enjoy it and spend it a little bit. It's like, man, you can go blow and spend for a while and you still got plenty still compounding interest in making money for you but that didn't happen overnight. That's right yeah speaking of

Starting point is 00:55:32 which I had a nice little I needed a bit of an ego boost just you know hurt myself not working out as much I went this morning to get some blood work for you know my my with my hormone therapy, peptide stuff, and I have to do this. You have to do this every few months, they test your blood. So I go in there and they did the full thing, they wanted to do blood pressure. So the nurse puts the blood pressure cuff on me.

Starting point is 00:55:56 We had to get the big one, dude. We had to get the obese person's cuff. It's the first time for you? It just didn't fit. I know just Adam doesn't know what I'm talking about. I know exactly what you're talking about. I know exactly what you're talking about. I know exactly what you're talking about. That one ain't gonna work.

Starting point is 00:56:10 I've had some people try and try, cause they see you're lean and so that, so they assume you're gonna be the small cuff and then they're over there trying to force it on them like, yeah, we probably don't need this one. She's like, let me go get the extra large one, is that the one for obese people? And they laughed and said, all right, put it on. So anyway, I feel better now. Nice. You're gonna be getting calls from the bariatric center.

Starting point is 00:56:32 That's you, Fred. Element is the world's best electrolyte powder. There's no artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and it has the right amount of sodium. light powder. There's no artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and it has the right amount of sodium. A thousand milligrams per packet. Most electrolyte powders are too scared to put that much sodium, but we all know that sodium is essential for muscle contractions, performance, cognitive function, especially if you go low carb on your diet or you don't eat any heavily processed foods. Go check them out. See for yourself. Go to drinklmnt.com forward slash mind pump

Starting point is 00:57:05 and on that link you'll get a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase. All right, back to the show. First question is from K.E.52309. Thoughts on the Australian study on creatine showing no more muscle gain than someone not taking creatine. I didn't know about this study.

Starting point is 00:57:23 This was one study. Oh God. So, okay, so, Doug, actually, if you could look up the study. I didn't know about this study. This was one study. Oh God. So, okay, so, Doug, actually, if you could look up the study. Yeah, let's look at the. So they had people take creatine first, wait till the load happened, then they trained both groups of individuals to see if the creatine group,

Starting point is 00:57:39 so one group loaded, the other group didn't, then they went in and had them strength trained, and then they say, okay, does the creatine group build more muscle than the other one? Cause they, they wanted to account for the hydration that happens in the creatine. Now the study, I believe was, I think it was 12 weeks, maybe Doug, if you can find it and look up the whole thing.

Starting point is 00:57:56 Anyway. Yeah, 12 weeks. It was a 12 week set. Okay. So, uh, okay. So here's the deal. Okay. Uh, first off, when you're looking at studies,

Starting point is 00:58:05 what you want to look at is a consensus. Meta analysis is typically what you want to look at because I can find studies that say- And there's already a lot of meta analysis on creatine. Creatine's the most studied supplement. There is no study, there is no supplement with more studies done, peer reviewed,viewed, double-blind, placebo controlled studies like Creighton. It is so well, it's been studied so many times

Starting point is 00:58:31 for so many years and the consensus by far shows that it improves strength and aids in muscle recovery and growth. Now the growth, the muscle growth you get from Creighton is not like taking some, you know, muscle building serum where in 12 weeks you're gonna see this radical difference. But what will happen over time, probably over a year or two, is you're gonna build a little bit more muscle because of the super hydration, right? So your muscles have more fluid in them and because they have more ATP. But what you definitely will get is a strength boost, that's clear.

Starting point is 00:59:08 You'll definitely get cognitive benefits. You'll definitely get health benefits. The muscle building effects are not these, this huge thing that you can measure in 12 weeks. And some of the muscle gain in the, well, I should say most of the lean body mass gain you get in the very beginning really is just your muscles being more hydrated and pumped.

Starting point is 00:59:25 By the way, your muscles are 70% water. So that's, and that's all lean body mass, that's all counted as lean body mass. Well, and I mean, just the performance boost of one more rep, or yeah, like, accounting for just a slight increase in volume sometimes, whether that's by loading or, you know, an extra rep, it all plays into factor.

Starting point is 00:59:43 I also think this is an awesome opportunity to highlight this. This for sure is the best supplement on the market and this is just how good it is. That just shows you how little supplements make a fucking difference. That's right, there you go. Everybody's looking for this,

Starting point is 00:59:57 I mean we've been saying this since day one, I've never had a client in my life that I radically changed their life or built the best for the, and they went, man, sure glad we took those supplements or Or I can point to, it was never that it's never that. Does it mean that there's not benefits to these things? Like, sure, there's, there's enough science and research to show that in these controlled environments that this moves the needle a little bit here, this gives you one more rep, this, but in

Starting point is 01:00:20 the, in the grand scheme of things, supplements don't mean dick. They're just so little of a difference and this is the best one and yet you can still show a study. It's not just the best one, it's the best one by far. Yeah, by far. By far. It's so much better than any other supplement for health benefits, cognitive benefits, longevity, muscle. But the reason why it's so far and away ahead from the other ones is because it consistently shows some benefit, that's all it does.

Starting point is 01:00:47 It's not like this crazy benefit, it's not like you take creatine and it's like, man, I'm D1 college and if I just took creatine, I'd go pro, it's not gonna make a difference. It's not gonna make you go pro. It's, when you think about it, it's a bit wild, it's not, I mean, I understand, we understand human psychology and why, because we're all looking

Starting point is 01:01:04 for the shortcut and the easy fix and it's marketed to us really well But it's it's a bit wild that the supplement industry is as big as it is Like it really should be something that the like the fanatical sals are the only ones that really buy because they're already doing all The other things that's like man. I think I felt that you know And it's like playing with it like just for the for the sake of it But yet everybody buys them. And I mean, every one of my family members, probably one of the first things I told you guys,

Starting point is 01:01:30 we have a thread that's just like for ask, you know, ask me health and fitness. It's always supplements, always something. It's just like, it's because it's because the information that you read, uh, around health, uh, a lot of the information is geared towards selling a product because that's how they make money. It's a consumable product. It's very hard to sell information, everybody.

Starting point is 01:01:51 Our podcast is free. We don't sell our podcast. We have sponsors that attach to the podcast and what do they typically sell? Products, but information is hard to sell. So how do you make money is you create a product and you sell it? So what happens is, so much content is in the health space that's geared towards selling a product that our perception of what, of its value, is completely skewed.

Starting point is 01:02:14 Because we read so many articles and so many posts and so many things about this supplement, that supplement, this compound, that compound, that we think it's so valuable because it's hard to make money off of selling proper exercise information and proper diet information. It just doesn't, you'd have to write a book and it'd have to be a radical, crazy book

Starting point is 01:02:34 to make a difference. That's right. So it's just, it's a skewed, like, when you're looking for advice on how to get healthy and fit and you look up health and fitness advice, you're gonna get so much more information that's going to be geared towards supplements, but it's not because they make a big difference. I mean that's why this study is getting popularity right now because we know that creatine is

Starting point is 01:02:56 the best and that yet you can still poke holes in it that it's not that great. It's because it's been oversold to us that it's so amazing. In comparison to all the supplements, it is so amazing. But in comparison to the things that move the needle, it don't mean shit. It's just not that important. You can never take it and see incredible results. Next question is from Fulvio Castle.

Starting point is 01:03:17 Why does my second working set often feel better than the first one? The same even applies to reps. It's the central nervous system at a patient. It's the response. Period. Your central nervous system adapts right away. Okay. So that's, your central nervous system is the computer that controls everything in the body. It's your brain, your spine.

Starting point is 01:03:35 It tells your muscles when to fire, how to fire, how hard to fire, what kind of contraction you need, how they work together. It's incredibly complex and it learns on the fly. So it's a very complex system. When to fire how to fire how hard to fire what kind of contraction you need how they work together Incredibly complex and it learns on the fly. So you practice something the second time around It's already more fine-tuned and efficient you practice it again even more fun. You shared a great story earlier about Randy couture. Yeah, okay that's an example of the the efficiency of the central nervous system.

Starting point is 01:04:06 And you getting a set in and reps in before is the body doing that subconsciously. Yep. It's going like, Oh, you grab the bar and it's not like immediately. It's like you started the movement. It's like, Oh, okay. All over your body. It's like, Oh, I remember this movement. I know what you do. Yeah. Yeah. You go, you go, you go. It's like your body's talk communicating to itself on what it needs to do. So then when you get under the second time, which by the way, this is the science behind Maps Prime and priming is helping people so that when they get right into their workout, their body's already, oh yeah, we're ready to go. Sequence is set. If we, if people

Starting point is 01:04:37 focused or understood the effects of the central nervous system better, you know who understands this? What kind of strength coaches understand this? Olympic coaches and power lifting coaches really get this. If you trained your central nervous system or understood how to leverage it, your results would go through the roof. You brought up priming.

Starting point is 01:04:56 If you prime your body properly and you do this properly over the course of a year, you'll see better results than if you took creatine. Let me put you that way. We talked about some of those. Way better results. By properly priming your body and getting your CNS to be as effective and efficient as possible.

Starting point is 01:05:13 What a great way to pull it back to that, Sal, because that's such a great example. Ain't nobody going out, I shouldn't say nobody, very small percentage of people are going out there and putting some energy and focus on preparing their body for their workout and priming it correctly. Yet the return on it is what? A hundred X to what the best creatine product done consistently yet nobody does it. But yet everybody wants to argue, debate the best brand, the best this and it dude, it's crazy

Starting point is 01:05:39 that we have these little things that we missed out on, but it's again, it's the, the work, it's the effort. It's like, you know, I got learn, I gotta figure it out. Oh, I really just convenient. I'll just take the powder. Yeah. They take less results. Next question is from D prior 30. I'm falling into a peptide rabbit hole and I'm getting blasted with social media marketing for them. When or how do I know it's time to pull the trigger on introducing them? What boxes need to be checked first? Yeah, peptides are fascinating. I mean, so these are, okay, so technically they're labeled

Starting point is 01:06:14 the pharmaceutical, but really what peptides are is these are signaling chemicals. Yeah, I know, chains of amino acids. I hate it when people say that, because there's, you knowows lots of things, right? But what a peptide is, it s a signaling chemical that already exists in the body that tells your body to do certain things. Either it says-

Starting point is 01:06:33 Produce more or something. Yeah, either it says accelerate production of collagen or signals the release of growth hormone or the healing of certain area, whatever. These are signaling chemicals that already exist in the body. And so what we've done is we've identified them, either copied them identically or changed them a little bit because now we know the sequence, we know what they communicate to. And then you use them, they're typically very short-acting, not all of them, some of them are long-acting, but typically they're very

Starting point is 01:07:01 short-acting. And you're essentially signaling the body to do what it would normally do with a signal it recognizes. This is different than a drug. A drug, we identify a receptor and we try to invent a way to hammer that receptor to produce a particular result, what ends up happening typically are side effects. Take over its job.

Starting point is 01:07:21 Yeah, receptors down regulate and stuff like that. So peptides generally have a much higher safety profile, generally are healthier, they're pro regenerative. I think that peptides are the future of pharmaceutical interventions. I really, really do. I think probably 10 years from now, most doctors are going to be using peptides on a regular basis. I think they're amazing.

Starting point is 01:07:47 What do you need to do first? Eat right, get good sleep exercise because peptides won't fix that. There is no peptide that'll fix any of that. Um, I would put peptides in a category above supplements, but still doesn't touch sleep, exercise and lifestyle. It's not going to change your life. That being said, uh, for people who are doing everything right. And there are specific things that they're dealing with, peptides definitely, you definitely notice them. That's where I think they're a little bit cooler or neater. You can target specific

Starting point is 01:08:15 things like somebody's got gut stuff, if you got an injury. I think BPC 157 was amazing. I've done it enough times, been injured enough times that I'm pretty confident. Like it's, it's like a measurable difference. Like it's like, if I had to guesstimate a number, I'd say it cuts the recovery time in half. Which that, when you think about that in the sports performance world and even for the average person who gets hurt, that's bad ass. And so for specific things like that, I think pep data. Now for the, for the average person who gets hurt, that's badass. And so for specific things like that, I think peptide, now for the average consumer who is what I would say is like our average client who just wants to get leaner

Starting point is 01:08:53 and build muscle and burn body fat, it's not a big deal. Even being better than supplements because again, the big rocks are going to move the needle the most and checking those boxes are the most important and you don't need peptides, but I think they're cool and I think the specific applications, they're more interesting to me. That's what I think is really neat.

Starting point is 01:09:13 Yeah, and what you're getting is people who have the expendable income, who take their health and fitness or performance seriously, they use peptides, they use them regularly because you notice, they definitely do make a difference. They're not like anabolic steroids and stuff like that from a performance standpoint, but I mean, you tell, they work.

Starting point is 01:09:31 You know, that's how I always recommend it. Even supplements, I've always recommended that way with my clients through if you have disposable income. Yeah. If you have disposable income, they all give you a little bit of the competitive edge. They're all neat, they're all cool, they all have benefits. We've researched enough of the peptides and enough supplements to know like what

Starting point is 01:09:48 they can and can't do. But it's like, you need to have enough disposable income that you really don't care. Otherwise, if you're somebody who's like, should I spend that money on this? I've only got a couple of hundreds. Like, no, it's like, it's not, if you're, if you're tight financially, the last thing you should be doing is spending three to $500 a month on supplements. That's a terrible idea because there's so many other things that you can do for free

Starting point is 01:10:10 that will massively change your body, physique, and your health. But hey, if you're checking all those boxes and you've got disposal income, why not? Next question is from Jay Bissette, 72. How do I make myself get to the gym when I know I need to go? Just don't seem to have any reason why I don't. So it's like this is a discipline thing. Self-motivation thing. Yeah, not a motivation thing.

Starting point is 01:10:33 Because what's probably happening, what it sounds like is happening, is you're relying on feeling motivated. That's it. Which, if you rely on your feelings, you're going be inconsistent because you're gonna feel motivated sometimes, sometimes you won't. So you have to create a habit and create discipline. And what does that look like in a scenario like this? You make a deal with yourself.

Starting point is 01:10:54 I don't wanna do, I don't wanna work out. Okay, I'm gonna go to the gym and do one exercise. I'm gonna do one exercise. You still show up. Yeah, and then you adjust your plan accordingly. That's it. And in my experience, I actually had a client, it's funny. And then you adjust your plan accordingly. That's it. That's it. And in my experience, I actually had a client, it's funny.

Starting point is 01:11:07 I had a client that really struggled with this. They had a bad relationship with exercise in the past. And so we had this conversation and I convinced her, I said, okay, do this then. Well, in those days, you just don't want to go. Drive to the gym, listen to your favorite book, and then sit in the parking lot for five minutes and then drive home if you still don't want to go in. And seven out of ten times she went inside the gym. But every time she was able to at least drive there and continue to do it.

Starting point is 01:11:31 So I did something similar and I do this myself even. This is like you, most people have to do this because their schedule with work, kids, family, all those things like, okay, this is the time or the days I have available to do this. So once you kind of figure that out, then it becomes a non-negotiable that I'm going to the gym or I'm going to do and, but what I'm, what's negotiable is what I do. Like I can definitely muster up the energy to go walk on a treadmill. And so I used to be like, you just go, you know, we both agreed that Monday, Wednesday, Fridays at 3pm is your, for an hour is your time. You show up. I don't give a shit. And you know what? If you're having a rough day, you don't feel goes on, just

Starting point is 01:12:07 go walk on the treadmill. Go put your favorite book on or go put your favorite song on and just go walk. And that will be really good for you. But you know, if you got it, get your workout in and maybe you only do one set, then you go home because you're not feeling it. That's fine. I'm like, I'm okay with all that. Just keep just build the habit of you go there on these days at this time. And then allow that flexibility and freedom. And I think that that by itself ends up resulting in what you're saying where it's like,

Starting point is 01:12:33 hey, sometimes they will, they'll go there or maybe they turn back around, but most times they'll do something and something is better than nothing. And I think I had a real hard time with that for a long time of always being like all or nothing. I had to be like the best workout, everything dialed, and I think I had a real hard time with that for a long time of always being like all or nothing. I had to be like the best workout, everything, dial,

Starting point is 01:12:47 and I think this is like, that was such a stupid. Did you abandon that all the time? No, and that way results in the yo-yo. I'm either in great shape or I'm in horrible shape where the biggest difference, one of the biggest differences in my life today is that I don't have those massive swings anymore. There's periods of time where I'm in really,

Starting point is 01:13:04 really good shape, but I never really get way out because I have that,, there's periods of time where I'm in really, really good shape, but I never really get way out because I have that, like, you know, right now I'm cruising. I'm just, maybe I'm doing a lot of walking and a lot of mobility. What's really most interesting about this conversation, this is one of those things where, you know, we all had careers as trainers, and we all came to the same conclusion independently, because we figured out how to help people become consistent. So it works, if you're listening to this, it works. Just show up and tell yourself it's okay

Starting point is 01:13:31 if you do almost nothing. If you do that and you do that consistently, it will turn into something that is worthwhile, even if it's five minutes on the trail. It always, this works, so I used to do this with clients, I had some clients, I had even a difficult time showing up to personal training, and I gave them the green light.

Starting point is 01:13:48 I said, you could show up and say, Sal, I just feel like going on a walk, and that's what we do. And some of these clients, even what I would do in the beginning, is I sometimes wouldn't even charge them the session, just to let them feel like they're not wasting it. And some of these people,

Starting point is 01:13:59 I can think of two people in my head right now, that till this day, I haven't trained them for 13 years. They're consistent. They turned it into something, and now they're doing it for the rest of their life. Really cool. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump.

Starting point is 01:14:14 Justin, I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano. Adam's at Mind Pump. Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com.

Starting point is 01:14:30 The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee,

Starting point is 01:15:02 and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is MindPump.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2583: The 5 Best Ways to Do Cardio & More (Listener Coaching)

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