Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2599: Eight Weird Signs That You Should Avoid Gluten & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: May 17, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: 8 weird signs that you should avoid gluten. (1:45) Why is fitness so EFFECTIVE for depression and anxiety? (22:07) Don’t forget to bring Zbiotics to your next party or gathering. (29:00) The Schafer’s Lego Land experience. (32:19) Saffron is a natural compound for depression and anxiety. (45:43) Justin’s Road to 315 Push Press. (46:55) 3-part bonus series for trainers dropping on May 19th! (1:00:35) #ListenerLive question #1 – Any advice for jumping and getting into personal training? (1:01:51) #ListenerLive question #2 – Where do I go after I finish Symmetry to make sure I can keep this momentum going to live pretty much pain-free and moving freely? (1:13:03) #ListenerLive question #3 – When would you guys recommend someone get liposuction? (1:22:42) #ListenerLive question #4 – Do I need to educate myself a little more before hiring a coach? And if so, how exactly? (1:32:53) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Pre-Alcohol by ZBiotics for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MINDPUMP25 for 15% off first-time purchasers on either one-time purchases, (3, 6, 12-packs) or subscriptions (6, 12-pack) ** Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off** May Special: MAPS 15 Performance or RGB Bundle 50% off! ** Code MAY50 at checkout ** Mood Disorders and Gluten: It’s Not All in Your Mind! A Systematic Review with Meta-Analysis Transmission of Faith in Families: The Influence of Religious Ideology Effects of Saffron Extract Supplementation on Mood, Well-Being, and Response to a Psychosocial Stressor in Healthy Adults: A Randomized, Double-Blind, Parallel Group, Clinical Trial Justin’s Road to 315 Push Press Train the Trainer Webinar Series Mind Pump Group Coaching Mind Pump #2515: How to Become a Successful Trainer in 2025 Online Personal Training Course | Mind Pump Fitness Coaching ** Approved provider by NASM/AFAA (1.9 CEUs)! Grow your business and succeed in 2025. ** Mind Pump #2242: The Non-Surgical Way to Look Younger With Dr. Anthony Youn Mind Pump #1622: Nine Signs Your Trainer Sucks Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Stan “Rhino” Efferding (@stanefferding) Instagram Jordan Jiunta (@redwiteandjordan) Instagram Marcelo (@mindpumpmarcelo) Instagram Anthony Youn, MD, FACS (@tonyyounmd) Instagram Justin Brink DC (@dr.justinbrink) Instagram Jordan Shallow D.C (@the_muscle_doc) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is mind pump. In today's episode, we had live callers call in and we got to coach them on air, but this was after the intro. Today's intro was 59 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness studies, fat loss tips, we talk about family life, current events, it's a good time. By the way if you

want to be on an episode like this where you can call in go to live at mindpumpmedia.com send us an email and we'll let you on the show. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Zbiotics. This is a pre-alcohol drink. It's actually a probiotic that's been genetically engineered to break down some of the negative byproducts of alcohol consumption. So I drink Zbiotics, then I drink and I feel way better. Go check them out. This stuff really works. Go to Zbiotics.com. That's Z-B-I-O-T-I-C-s dot com forward slash mind pump to five use the code mind pump to five get 15% off

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Gluten, should you eat it, should you avoid it? For many people, gluten can cause some issues. There's the obvious ones, which we'll cover, but there's also eight weird signs that may mean you should probably avoid it. Let's go. Gluten's an interesting one. This one, nobody talked about until about 15 years ago.

And I would even make the case that just- People made fun of you if you brought it up. Yeah, exactly. I think maybe only in the last five do you not get roasted. I mean, I think 10 years ago, if you were talking about this, people would just, the biggest eye roll ever. Especially if you don't have celiac.

You're what, exactly. If you don't have, granted, that's a one-off case, right? If you're not, if you don't have celiac, Exactly. Granted, that's a one-off case. If you don't have celiac, then everybody else would give you a massive eye roll if you're like, oh, I'm gluten intolerant. I'm like, oh. Yeah, I know. You change everything.

No, I was lucky. I was blessed to have somebody who rented space in my studio who was really ahead of the curve on this kind of stuff. And she informed me on gluten sensitivities. Now at the time the medical community scoffed at it like you said it was like a joke. Yes. Unless you have celiac there's no issue but now I think it's widely accepted that aside from allergies and celiac you can have sensitivities of

gluten. So first off gluten is a protein. It's a protein that's found in some grains. Wheat being the most popular, barley being another one. Rye I think is another one. It's a protein, which by the way, if you have any kind of an immune response, it's typically to a protein. It's typically a protein that will cause an immune response. Now the obvious signs of gluten intolerance, again, aside from the obvious celiac or allergy, are gastro issues.

I think everybody knows that now, right? Bloating, constipation, diarrhea. But there are other signs that now are essentially confirmed that could mean that you probably should avoid gluten. One of them, I'll start with the first one, water retention. Water retention is widely reported by people who consume gluten, they're not allergic to it, they don't have celiac, but they eat it

and they just feel puffy. Not gastro bloat, but rather bloat overall. This is me, by the way. When I eat gluten, this is me. When I eat gluten, if I don't get gastro issues, which I will get sometimes, I'll notice the following day, it's like I'm holding like three, four pounds of water everywhere. It's very, you know, a listener is trying to figure this out,

it's very obvious that you are holding more than normal. Like everybody holds a little bit of water. We get water retention when we eat, like period, right? So everyone holds a little bit of water. It would be unhealthy not to, but it's an abnormal amount. And typically you but it's an abnormal amount. And typically you see it in people's faces. Their eyes. Yeah, their face will be holding, that's definitely my area, I know you're the same way too.

I can tell right away when you had a good time eating. I walk in and you're like, what's up with your face? Yeah, yeah, it looks good. And you know, I actually think it's far more common than people realize. I think that there's a lot of people on the lower end of the spectrum to where they can eat it and because they don't have all of these symptoms, they have maybe a few of them, they don't even realize that they have somewhat of an intolerance to it.

I've had many clients that we would be doing something, I'd be like, you know what, let's try and eliminate it for a while and just see how you feel and then instantly they notice a difference then. So here's what's happening, because we'll get to the rest. Here's what's happening, right? You can have an allergy, which is obvious. So you'll eat a food, anaphylactic shock, right? And you'll know this. You'll figure this out as a kid.

So you avoid that food as an adult. But there's other immune reactions that are not so obvious. There are different kind of antibodies that react to different kinds of proteins if you have a reaction. IgE antibodies, I believe it's IgE, maybe Doug can confirm this for me, are the antibodies that will cause the allergy. But then there's like IgG antibodies, IgA antibodies, and I believe there's one or two others, that don't cause allergy, but they do show that you have some kind of an immune response.

So intolerances are an immune response, they're just not the loud, obvious ones. Isn't the differences too, isn't there one that's a delayed response versus more of an immediate? All the ones that are not the IgE antibodies will cause typically this kind of an immediate. Yes. All the ones that are not the IgE antibodies will cause typically this kind of delayed response. Water retention from gluten, if you have a gluten intolerance, is literally an immune

response. Your body is identifying this protein as not a good thing or an invader. Now, again, it's not a strong reaction, but it's a reaction nonetheless that causes some water retention. All the ones we're gonna go through today are really an immune reaction due to the gluten. So because it is an immune response to another indicator for some people,

I didn't think you had this on your list, did you have this on your list? No, I don't think so. Where like if you have an autoimmune disease, It'll just get worse. You'll see it flare up. Yes. So that was one of the biggest, I guess,

blessings in disguise, this whole autoimmune battle with psoriasis that I've had, is it makes it even more obvious for me. Because I think the hardest part about going over the symptoms you're talking about is, it could be on the spectrum. So even as you list all of these symptoms, you can have severe water retention, you can have severe water retention

or you can have mild water retention and everything in between. And each one of these categories, it can be somewhere on that. And so it makes it difficult sometimes for people to go like, well, is it water retention or brain fog I'm dealing with right now?

Or is it like, and you question it because you're not sure because it's not so alarming. Versus when you have an autoimmune disease and then you eat something that you're intolerant to like this, it lets you know. Generally speaking, if you have any autoimmune issue, you probably should start avoiding foods that tend to cause, the more common foods

that can cause issues. Gluten is one of them, that's a top one. So when I worked with functional medicine practitioners, if anybody had any kind of an autoimmune issue, they would always cut gluten out just to see what would happen because their immune system is already heightened. You already have a hyperactive or hyper reactive immune system and gluten is a common protein that can cause issues. So if you already have this hyperactive system, you add that on top of it, you get more psoriasis for it. Not to go too far down a rabbit hole just to bring it up at least, besides having

a reaction to the gluten protein itself, have they actually studied and siphoned off specifically glyphosate and herbicide and pesticide symptoms in terms of stuff you're listing versus it just being from the protein? Good point. So some people say that maybe that what people will call a gluten intolerance is really a glyphosate intolerance because they spray the hell out of wheat as a, essentially to dry it out. They don't even use it as a herbicide here for wheat.

They'll just spray it on as a desiccant. Yes, they have. So some people respond to glyphosates, other people respond to gluten, some people respond to both. So it's respond to glyphosates, other people respond to gluten, some people respond to both. So it's like both, yeah. Yes. And by the way, gluten is, it's a protein that can thicken liquids.

It adds to bread the, kind of the squishiness to it or the firmness to bread, that's what gluten does. And our, I believe our wheat has been bred to have higher levels of gluten here in the US because it makes it just a thicker, more palatable type of bread. So, and I believe that's true. I'm glad you brought that up too because then there's even

like, and I notice this with myself, like there's levels to think, like I can, I feel like there's things I can have that have gluten in it. But as long as it's like a- Like sourdough for me is a little less. Yes, exactly. I can have sourdough bread. I've just had sourdough bread for breakfast.

Totally fine, doesn't bother me. But pizza bread dough from Roundtable or something like that, oh man, I'm destroyed. So there's also like... And then I also know like when I was over in Europe, like eating stuff over in France and stuff like that, I could have breadsticks. That's an interesting one and I'm not sure what that is.

But I do know, I know sourdough because it's fermented, the gluten is broken down somewhat. So it helps a little bit. It's a little less. But the Europe one, a lot of people speculate, talk about that, and I don't know. I really don't know what the heck the difference is. Yeah, because that was weird for me too,

is over there it felt like I could have pizza, I could have whatever I wanted, it didn't bother me the same way. A lot of people say that. Yeah. So weird. Another weird sign is delayed gastro issues. So you eat gluten today and you start noticing gut issues a day or two later. This one's harder to connect.

This one's also me. If I get gastro issues from gluten, it's almost never immediately after. It's like the day after and I noticed I'm just either like something's off That's way that's me and with dairy, you know if I overdo it the dairy is delayed but gluten is like immediate Yeah, yeah. Oh see Doug just pulled up European wheat tends to be lower in gluten That might be that might be why actor. Yeah next up skin rashes and itching So you don't have psoriasis you you don't have skin issues, eczema,

but you just notice sometimes your skin is a little itchy. Sometimes you do get a little bit of rashiness. That's a common autoimmune reaction or immune reaction to gluten. In fact, in my experience, this is the number one reaction that aside from the gastro issues, which are obvious, when I would have clients that would talk about itchy skin or dry patches, I would cut gluten out as my number one, that was like always my number one line of defense for them. Next up, brain fog.

This is one that people miss. They just miss. But pay attention. If you notice after eating pasta or bread that you're just like, I'm just not as sharp, like something doesn't feel right. That's also an immune, could be, I should say, an immune response to the gluten. Yeah, it's elusive. I mean, they think that maybe they didn't get enough sleep

or like, you know, there's some other factor, but this is why it's good to tease it out. You know what's tough about this, what's tough about all these, by the way, is if you eat gluten every day, you don't know. You don't know until you go off, and you go off for a week or two that you're like, whoa, I feel really different.

Next up, this is an interesting one, neuropathic symptoms, like tingling in the hands and feet, or numbness, or cold, kind of burning sensations from your nerves. That's actually a relatively common one that's a result of gluten. Is that, what's that, is it an autoimmune? Rains, did Rains, did he?

I don't know if it's autoimmune, but I know what you're talking about. Yeah, is it? Yeah, I know. I'm not sure if it's autoimmune. You can look that up, Doug. Rains are, I would say, are. Are E-I-N-S?

I believe so. Yeah. Yeah, and that's where you get the hands that like. Yeah, like they almost like blood, blood flow doesn't get all the way to your fingertips and so with that and they look all white and... Yeah, I don't know if that's autoimmune. That's interesting. Next up, fatigue or energy crash.

So sometimes people think this is just I eat carbs or I just ate something, but it's different when you eat rice versus when you eat bread this is me as well if I eat white rice not how to feel okay if I eat bread for sure 30 40 minutes later I need to take a nap so yes that's it Raynaud's disease that's the one yeah doesn't say that it's a son and I don't mean okay no that always used to kill me because we'd eat pancakes before a football game. I was always like, about halftime, I was like.

Yeah, and you thought you were living up on carbs. Yeah, I was like, I should have loaded up more. I know. I mean, I'm the same way too though. White rice, sweet potato, yams, quinoa, fruit, all good. All amazing. But a big old loaf of bread, pizza type of deal like that. And it's like.

Yeah, I wanna go to bed. Yeah, I want to crash right afterwards. Uh, depression and anxiety is another one. Um, so this one's interesting. There's actually some studies that connect, uh, immune responses or an immune system that's a little hyper reactive to depression, anxiety. So there's a lot, there's a ton of Agnito of people who cut gluten out and notice an improvement in depression

anxiety. So if this is you and you kind of struggle, this is an extreme, like a low level depression anxiety, like I don't know what's going on. You can try it. Try cutting gluten. For all of these, by the way, if you have any of these that just are mysterious to you, cut gluten out completely. By the way, cutting gluten out is not as easy as you think.

We know it's in wheat. We know it's in certain grains. it's in a lot of sauces. Sauces is the sneaky one. Yes, soy sauces or barbecue sauces, processed foods, I'd say probably 70% of them contain gluten. You know a lot of them. I screwed up on this years ago when I tried to remove gluten when I had my gut issues in my early 30s when they really kicked in hard. And I remember cutting gluten out and

being like, oh, it must not be gluten because when they really kicked in hard. And I remember cutting gluten out and being like, oh, must not be gluten because I'm not having any improvements. And my friend goes, those chicken breasts that you eat that are marinated, they have gluten in them. And I'm like, it's chicken. She's like, look at the back.

I look at the back and the frickin' sauce. That's so funny. I was so mad, dude, I did it every single day. I know. Last, joint pain. So if you have kind of unexplained joint pain, this will be me too. If I push gluten for a while,

like I just recently did for the past four days, I do notice I'm just stiffer overall. Now is this connected to the water retention or are they independent of each other? Independent. So I get both. So who knows if mine's from the water retention. But some people don't get, that's all they get.

Is they'll have the lead gluten and they'll start noticing more back pain or knee pain or something like that, which is a really weird one. Yeah, what would you guys say? I would actually say water retention and joint pain were probably the two. Most common ones?

Yeah, common ones for me. You said skin rash. Skin rash wasn't common, but when I saw random skin rashes, oh, it was like, bro, it was like, I'm not exaggerating, 70% of the time it would fix their skin issues. Well, especially if it was.

That's a lot. I guess I would say I had the same experience because if it was something that was, I mean, I remember seeing this with Katrina, I've seen it with Max, where they don't have it, then all of a sudden it comes out of nowhere, and then right away, we're going, okay, the last 24 hours, what did you eat? And then we can normally point to something

and then eliminate it, don't have it, and then it goes away. You know what I didn't put here? That's another weird one, snoring. Snoring, yes, and it's a central nervous system. Because when you have an immune response, it'll affect the central nervous system, which is, by the way, why people get more depression and anxiety from gluten sometimes if they

have an intolerance, but also will affect your breathing when you're asleep. So you'll snore more. I saw this myself. Remember, a while ago I noticed this and I looked it up. I'm like, what's going on here? And I'm like, oh my God. It contributes to that too. Yeah, dude.

Like it messes, it causes, you know, so sleep apnea believe or not sometimes doctors, forward-thinking doctors, unless the person's really overweight right, if they have sleep apnea they'll say hey let's avoid gluten and see what happens and there's a percentage of people where that's the fix. It's just not having, who would have thought right? It's rare, in fact I'm trying to recall a scenario where I had a client, or I had them do an elimination, or like a Whole30 protocol, and they didn't see significant improvements. Can you think of anybody who you have helped that way?

And they did it and they're like, oh yeah, no better, no worse. So I'll say this, I know we're gonna get some flack from the science, you know, the science-y crowd who only goes with the current data shows or whatever. We have a lot of experience, and I'm 100% out. I would say it was a minority of people

who didn't notice a benefit from just cutting out gluten. It was a majority. Now, here's what they're gonna say. Well, gluten's found in processed foods, so maybe they're just eating less processed foods. I'm talking about clients. Whatever's the case. I'm talking about clients that were healthy who ate gluten, so they're like, oh, I eat whole grain bread,

or I have the pasta, and their diets were relatively healthy, and we'd switch to gluten-free, and they would almost all notice some improvement in how they felt. Almost everybody, yeah, made a significant difference. Yeah, big time. Yeah, I can't recall where I have it everybody that we've made the attempt to do that I think it just even people who didn't really think they had a major

issue just would report that let's just try this out yeah they would report back oh man I do feel so much better I remember when Justin identified it was your your acid reflux oh yeah how long ago was it that you found that because it was why we were together. A couple years, yeah. It was maybe like three years ago. Yeah, and it was like immediate once I removed it, I didn't have any quick acting response like that.

Now what's crazy, and this is great to highlight, because you're a trainer, you're a fitness guy, I consider you a pretty self-aware person, it took you that long. You know what I mean? Now imagine the average person who doesn't pay attention to their health, who's just like, oh, this is just what I got.

This is what I'm trying to say for people watching, you might be like, I'm fine, cut it out for a week or two, and see if you notice a difference. Yeah, for some reason I thought it was acid. I thought it was more. You just make too much or too little? Well, just like spicy spicy acidic type foods, like, cause I thought that, cause I, again, you get a lot of carbs with those typically.

And so it was really as a gluten. I mean, I think we, the reason why something like that takes so long sometimes for people is I think we underestimate just how resilient the human body. Yeah. It has unbelievable ability to adapt and figure it out. And so because you're not crippling in pain or in the hospital yet or hunched over vomiting, like, OK, so you don't have it that these are subtle enough

that the body adapts. All right, this is just we're going to have to make do. I'm just going to deal with it. Yeah. I feel like this. And then it would kind of resolve itself eventually throughout the day. I can't stress enough to the audience that's never tried to do this, but you know, give yourself 30 days of eating a whole food diet, just purely nothing but that for 30 days,

or do some sort of an elimination diet and tell me you don't feel significantly better. Yep. And then once you've done that, then the next step is to just gradually introduce some of the things that maybe you've, you've, you loved. Because not a lot of times this is why this is so important is because if you can help shift, it's so hard to get a client to let go of wine if they, you know, you know, the client is, Oh, I'm going to do I'm, we have attachments to things. Yeah, we do. We get

these attachments to foods and, and we're in denial. It could be making us feel that way. And so part of eliminating it and then reintroducing it and then realizing what it's actually doing helps shift the relationship with us. So it takes something that you might've said like, I would never go without or like- Now you notice this negative effect.

Yeah, then you see that like- Good point. Because otherwise you operate from this place of denial. Even if like- or just ignorance. You just don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Whether, and part of me, I think we choose to be that way because you're like, I don't want to accept that that's possibly what it is. And so I want to lift the rug here. Yeah. And so, you know, I just urge you to, to do that for yourself, for your health, and then reintroduce those foods and the, and you know, many times it's that food that you don't want to let go of.

And once you connect the, oh wow, every time I do this, like... It releases its grip on you. Yeah, it does. Like, I mean, I've openly talked about my relationship with ice cream that I absolutely love still. Well, never not, but because I've so strongly connected what it does to me, it does make that easier not to. Does it mean it's still not hard? Does it mean I still don't do it to myself? But I'm very aware how it makes me feel and so it's like, I just gotta be judicious about how often that makes its way into my life. medicines. So here's a hint, here's a clue that you need to change something. If

you take on a weekly and especially daily basis some kind of an over-the-counter symptom controlling medication, whether it's an NSAID like ibuprofen or you know naproxen or acetaminophen like Tylenol because you have these headaches every week or if you take heartburn medication like Tums or something even stronger like Pepsid. Those are, or you have to use a cortico, you know, steroid cream or rash stuff. Like if this is like a regular weekly basis

or daily especially, there's probably something causing it. You know, and so take a look. take a look is what I'll say. Anyway, I had a great conversation this weekend with very intelligent woman, she's, you guys know Chuck, he's the pastor of my church, his wife is a psychiatrist and we were talking about depression and anxiety because that's what she treats when she works with people. And I love, I absolutely love having access to an expert on a subject like that. I really miss training doctors, I used to love talking

to doctors about stuff. So we got this really good discussion, and then we talked about the effects of fitness and exercise on depression and anxiety. And I asked her, I said, is that like, do you guys recommend that? She's like, oh yeah, now? It is like one of the first things we do.

She says, however, sometimes someone's so bad that they can't even walk out the door or they can't get off the couch, which I understand that. Years ago I trained a psychology professor who explained that to me. She says, because I had this big debate, and I'm like, you know, no, they need to exercise.

That's what they need to do. She goes, sometimes they give them big debate and I'm like, you know, no, they need to exercise. That's what they need to do. She goes, sometimes they give them medications so they can exercise. I was like, oh, okay. But the discussion was great. One of the things that we were talking about, about why is fitness so effective for depression, anxiety? Like you compared fitness to, and diet, so just being healthy, to every other medication, every other depression treatment, it kills them. It's the best, the most effective. And you can stack it, so you can do the other stuff plus add it to it.

But why is it so effective? And I think that there's two ways that it works. One is, you know, your brain is a physical part of your body, right? And a healthy brain operates better than an unhealthy brain. So think of hardware. You got a computer in your skull, and if it operates well, if it utilizes glycogen well and ketones well, it doesn't have mitochondrial dysfunction,

it's got good blood flow, it's healthy, you're gonna have a healthy brain, you're gonna feel healthier. You're gonna be less depressed, less anxiety, less inflammation. If it's unhealthy, you're going to feel crappy, okay, from your brain. So there's that.

But then there's also the other aspect of fitness, which is I have to get up, I have to do something hard, I have to stay disciplined. Oh my God, I accomplished something. I'm gonna do it again. Oh my God, I accomplished something. That part. And that part we were talking a lot about. Well that's why I think that that's why it does so well because it's not just addressing the physiological stuff, it's also addressing the psychological stuff.

Yes. And both are so powerful when dealing with the anxiety and depression. You obviously there's some sort of chemical issue or imbalance potentially and so taking something that potentially helps that, or doing something that potentially helps that, but then also helps the psychological part of, like you're saying, going after something or doing something that is hard, overcoming it, and then the confidence that you build from that, like that's powerful

and compounding too. Yeah, so we went in that direction because we started talking about GLP-1s, and I said to her, I said, you know, at some point I think we're going to have this combination or cocktail of peptides or drugs or whatever that's going to give you all of the effects of exercise, physical effects. You'll take them and you'll have muscle, you'll be lean, boom. I said, but it's not going to be the same.

That's when the conversation really got exciting because she said, yeah, she goes, the way that the brain uses and utilizes dopamine is different when it's cheap dopamine versus when it's hard dopamine. So if I take a drug or something that squirts out dopamine, there's an adaptive response where receptors get down regulated and I need more of it to get that same effect, that's where you get addiction, versus where I have to do something hard to get the dopamine, that doesn't happen.

So is it endogenous or is it exogenous? Exogenous. Or just like you're forcing it versus you're making it happen. Isn't there also a longer lasting effect that comes from that one too? Yes, yes. So like the other one is like the artificial,

it's an instant hit, then it comes and goes. And then the one where you actually had to accomplish it, not only does it take longer, it's longer lasting, it doesn't down-regulate anything, and then in addition to that, it also has a prolonged effect. Yeah, so if you were to look at a graph of like comparing like cocaine, which slams dopamine in your brain, versus exercise,

initially cocaine's gonna produce a stronger dopamine effect, but over time, it goes down and you start getting these negative effects. Whereas exercise starts out here, but the longer you do it, the higher it goes and the better it is. So it's this growing positive effect on anxiety and depression, whereas drugs have a growing

downward slope negative effect on the brain. So I don't think we'll ever solve or should I say mimic the effects perfectly of extras because people have to do something hard. Yeah. You know so I don't know maybe make them go lift weights. Try to figure out ways to slow down that negative slope but at the same time create other symptoms with the other drugs that they're combating. It's the same game. I mean, as a society, don't you guys predict that we're gonna get even worse?

Oh yeah. Is that a depression? Because there's a subset of people right now that have found exercise and it's profoundly changed their life for the good. That would also, if given the option, just take a pill and just miss that. There's obviously a percentage that value the journey,

that understand that part of it and love it. And the dead weight. Everybody who's done it for a long time. Yeah, wouldn't matter to them. They're gonna choose the hard path no matter what, but there's definitely a percentage of people that exercise is helping and is good for them, but then they will choose the opposite path

because of maybe what the desired outcome of it is, just for the way they look. What we're trying to do is we're trying to produce the positive effects of exercise without doing the hard work that it requires, but what we don't realize is the hard work produces many of the positive effects. So you can't, it's impossible to produce the effects

of hard work without hard work. That would be the challenge. The Everest analogy with the helicopter ride to it is the great analogy that you've given before, which is that you could take a helicopter ride to the top of Mount Everest and look at the view and for a moment go, man, this is so awesome. But compare that to the person who spent however long it takes to get to the top of that thing and how few people do climbing that thing and then getting to the top that the experience

they both have totally different, so different, so different, and so much, so much like the person who did that not only will have this way more profound feeling, but it'll be prolonged. They'll be able to draw on it. Growth. Months down the road, they'll recall it and be able to talk about, yeah, they'll have all these things where the other person

who helped come here will go like, oh, this is cool. Yeah. And then over. These have the pictures. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Dude, would you say you're more philosophical when you drink?

Because I've hung out with you and you've had a few and then like these, it just reminds me of that conversation you have because it ends up going to, you know, what do you guys think about this existential crisis? Yeah, I do. You know what it is? It's alcohol, it lowers inhibitions. And I think sometimes, well well I know this about myself, I don't go super deep because,

I mean, I start going off, and then I want people to go deep with me, and some people like shut up. I like doing that though, sometimes. Those are some of the best conversations. You guys are like that, that's why we all connect. Yeah, I mean I saw you stock it up on Zbiotics before you left, did you guys do a lot of drinking this week?

Yeah, so I went up to Truckee with some families that we met at church. So Chuck and his wife Catherine, his wife Catherine is a psychiatrist. And then we went with Chris and Jessica. They've got three little girls and one on the way. First off, I got to say, such good people, really godly, just wonderful good people, everybody's so, just so great, such a great time. The dads are so amazing, I'm around these really, really great fathers, my buddy Chris, he's like this giant, he's like this tall dude,

you know, blue collar worker, I was telling my wife, I said, because he's like this super humble, very humble, chill, but also confident. You know when you run into a guy who's humble but confident, and she's like, well, she's like. You know when you run into a guy who's humble but confident? And she's like, I know what you mean, but what do you mean by that? I said, well first off, he's a big dude,

he's probably six, five. I said, when you look at his hands, I can always tell when a dude is really strong by his hands. I'm like, he could rip someone's arm out of their socket. Slap you unconscious. Yeah, but he's also very confident. Really great people, great kids.

And anyway, so we all had a good time. I brought Zebotics up there because that's the thing I like about Christians. They'll drink at least. So we got to have some drinks and stuff. Yeah, but everybody likes the Zebotics. They remember it from the Christmas party. Oh, okay. Yeah, they're like, oh, I remember this.

They had a chance to try it there. Yeah, dude. So I had Zebotics, which is a safe, what a lifesaver, dude. What were you guys drinking up there? I know we've stocked up the alcohol up there. Did you have any of that Japanese whiskey? No, no, we had beer and then we had

margarita mix. Did you have your little food drinks? I know. No. That great bar up there and you're up there drinking a freaking purple margarita. Yeah. Well, we're not going hard, you know what I mean? Well, we're not going hard. You know what I mean?

We're not like, but it's like, it's during the day, right? So, you know, we'll have a couple drinks with lunch, and then again, a little later, and then again, so I'd probably be averaging like five drinks a day, which for me, That's a lot. For me's a lot. Yeah, you were right, that's a lot.

We don't drink that much. That would make me, yeah. And the Z-botics, because I'd forgot one day to take the Z-botics. And I woke up the next day, dude, and I was like, I'd be profaned. Yeah, dude, I was like, oh, I feel terrible. Then I had the Z-Botix afterwards, and it was good.

Once, couple days, I had it twice in a day. Because I'm like, this is a Z-Fx where- Now, were you guys there the whole time? Did you go up there the whole week? We were there the whole time. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, so. Was it beautiful up there?

It was gorgeous, dude. The weather was nice. You know what's crazy? The weather was nicer. It's crazy at altitude, if you're the sun, and I think- Oh, it'll tan you and cook you way quicker. It's because there's less atmosphere, right? Am I trippin'?

No, no, that's right. Oh yeah. That's true, oh yeah, you'll get, yeah. I get crispy, dude, if I don't wash myself. Fast? Yeah, dude. It wasn't even hot, like 70 degrees, but it's like I was getting like a farmer's tan.

Oh, it was perfect. We were in San Diego, and it was perfect too down there. Great weather. You went to Legoland? Yes, we did. Was it just you, Katrina, and your son? My down there. Great weather. You went to Legoland? Yes, we did. Was it just you, Katrina, and your son? My best friend and his kids. Epic fail.

Why? Yeah, dude, I just, you know what, as a parent, I'm mad at myself. I mean, Katrina and I had a big long talk about this because you know, my godson is like your son. Very aggressive, risky, do all things like that. He's also a year and a half older than my son. And that's my best friend and his kid.

That's a big difference. It is a big difference. At that age, a year and a half. Well, a year and a half plus you're that type of kid and my kid's the opposite. So why I was mad at me, I was mad at Katrina and I for doing this is we know our son so well, yet we planned Legoland because we wanted to go to Legoland I was mad at Katrina and I for doing this is we know our son so well yet

We we planned Legoland because we wanted to go to Legoland because my best friend's going he's gonna bring his kids We all want to be together. Of course. My son should love legal. Everyone told me. Oh, he's gonna love Legoland What I didn't know and I found this out later from Katrina. I wish she would have told me although who knows Maybe I wouldn't have changed anything That he was talking to his other little friend who had told him that he got scared. Oh no. So he was already going into it. So my son had like multiple times told Katrina like, hey mommy, I don't want to do all the rides there. I know that, what's his friend's name? Julian was scared. I don't want to do the one ride. And she's like, you don't even know what's there yet. Let's wait till you get... So she kept kind of talking him

through it. And I didn't know anything about this, but she told me that he'd like multiple times before we were even going on the trip saying this. And again, I know my son, like at that point, it's like, it doesn't even have to be... It's already there. It's there. It would be... And he was that way over... It has to be his idea. Yes. Yeah, you can't push him yes and so I mean he was just resistant to the most basic things that he should have had no fear around man and it was just you know and then I have the kid and then you were trying to get him to force him to do it and it's like oh it was really really frustrating

but I was so. Did you guys just spend a lot of time in the place of making Legos and stuff? Yes, yes, yeah. And that was a part, so we had two days of Legoland, third day was the zoo, and I mean, I was done by the first day. I was like, I'm not paying for a day of Legoland

to just watch my son play Legos and then buy all the shit that's there, I'm saying, spend $1,000 on all the stuff, you know? Like, just because he doesn't want to do any of the rides. And so I was really, really frustrated with that. But I also, again, like I blame it on me. I blame Katrina and I for him not being, I said like, our son, not only is he younger than him, but he's also, my son will be into the things

that most kids are into when they're five, when he's seven. Because he's already like that with almost everything else. That, and then I have to wait until he's telling me, daddy, I wanna go do this, and then we go do it, then we'll have a total different experience. So yeah, Legoland was an absolute flop for me, you know? And it was, it was tough. Did he now me, you know, and it was it was Did he now did he know it or was your son thinking like I'm having fun some playing Legos?

No, no, I mean he could even feel he could feel my energy. You can tell I was frustrated, too I really had to like rain myself and both Katrina night her and I her and I that if there's Something that we've achieved and says she's like I need you to be nicer to him because I'm so mad at him right now It was like I'm like no, I'm pissed at him right now too. I'm like, I'm so frustrated that. I mean, he wouldn't even do a slide, bro. Yeah, yeah, because he's already decided. Yeah, exactly.

And that's the part that's so frustrating. It's like, OK, I get it. I'm not going to make you do roller. I would never force him to do a roller coaster. But some of these things are things that you've already done and now you're not having it. You know, Aurelius is not. He's like that now with a lot of rides and stuff.

So he's not wanting to go on rides and stuff like that. Yeah, so we'll see how my daughter is, but he can be very timid and so the way Jessica gets him to do things, she's really good at, she'll just be like, okay, you don't have to. And then what I've done in the past, which has helped, I'm trying to think what this helped with, so this helped him with going to bed. So I'll tell him a story about

a character, it's either a dinosaur or some other whatever, when he was scared and how it was okay. But then his friend said, hey, you could try being brave. And he's like, but I'm still scared. And he goes, well, that's the only time. And I'll tell him stories like that. And it's helped a couple of times. But you can't, if you push them, that's the only time you're gonna tell him stories like that. Yeah, and it's helped a couple times Yeah, but the but you can't if you push them You know, it's like you just gonna end up like it's gonna get worse and then you make the kid feel terrible I mean, I made that mistake with Everett. It was it was pretty bad. It was like Because he's he's very courageous, but then when he doesn't want to do something he's an immovable object Yeah

and so I got him to go on the Big Dipper. And then after we were done, like me and Ethan went on this ride adjacent to it. And it goes upside down. And it kind of does all the, and I'm like, it's fine. Like you're strapped in. Like every, like, and I'm trying to convince him. He's like, I'm just not doing it.

I had no freaking way. Yeah. I'm like, you're doing it. No. No. You know? And he's. Yeah, I'm like you're doing it So it's crying like fine you go away at the end and you know, I kind of lost my shit And then I'm on there I'm pretty sure I traumatized him when I was There was a point where I apologize them right that. And he was like, you know, it just,

it created that sort of dad. I know what I wanna do and I know what I don't wanna do. And I'm like, okay, I respect that. But he was like, I was like, ugh. You know, listen, there's a positive here. There's a good thing to look at here. Because first off, it is dad's role to encourage our shows.

This is the data shows, okay. But I believe this as well. because first off, it is dad's role to encourage our shows. It's the data shows, okay, but I believe this as well. It is father's role to challenge our children to go outside of what they can, that's what we're supposed to do. That's why we throw them in the air, that's why we do all that stuff, right? Mom is safe, dad's a little bit.

Yeah. So that's on one side. Here's the other side that I think is positive. You guys and I, okay, which they got from us, I hate to break this to you guys, but they take after us, this is not a bad thing, that they're not afraid to stand up for what they wanna do, and you know what?

You don't wanna break that. You don't wanna crush, imagine if you crushed that. They're gonna have this kid that goes along with everybody. Yeah, I was trying to move him in that direction. It's way better. I was that kid, and you guys were too. I know you, I've heard you guys talk about it. No, I told Katrina that.

One of the earliest traits I can remember of myself was when I didn't want to do something, I was not gonna do it. And it was, and you would think the, my friends and peers would be like, oh, you're scared, it's that, but then I would go do something that is way riskier, way more dangerous,

because I wanted to do it and it was on my terms. Now, how did this, why was this positive? Well, I know, because we've talked off air on these stories. You had friends who wanted to try certain drugs or they wanted to go break a window or go steal a car. Those are all things that happened to me. And because I was willing to say no, I didn't fall into the peer pressure.

Yeah, yeah. Totally. And you don't want to crush that. No, you're right. No, you're 100% right. I mean, that's why my way of starting the conversation was like, you know, as a parent, I failed this one. Yeah, you take that one. Yeah, I shouldn't even have taken him there.

I shouldn't even have taken him there, you know? I definitely had Justin a moment where I probably traumatized him too when we first started. Because I was already like- Dude, it happened, so I'm going to be honest. I was already kind of annoyed, like, oh, it's going to be like that, right? The first ride that we got on, like, he, we got on this little, if you guys have been to Lego land, there's this, uh, cool little like submarine thing that goes underwater and you see like all the fish and stuff.

And he tried to be like, it was so scared. And I like carried him on and he like buried his head in my chest the whole time. And he was just like crying. I'm like, max, the thing's like barely moving. There's like little infants in there with us. And so I'm like, I'm already kind of like annoyed. And then I'm like, okay, it's going to be a day like that. And so there's like a regular slide, just a regular slide.

You put these little beanbag thing on and I'm like, let's go up there. Let's go do that. And I'm walking up there and I'm holding this hand and he's like, that is this high. I'm like, no, it's not. It's no higher than any other slide you've ever been on. It's fine. Oh, it's high. You're fine.

And so we get up there and I'm like, don't worry. I'm like, I'm going to hold your hand. I'll hold your hand, you go on one side, and it was like a four person slide or whatever. And you know, you could tell he's not wanting to do it, but I'm like, he's gonna do it with me, and he gets on his little bean bag on mine, we're about to go, and the guy goes, oh you can't hold hands sir, can't hold hands.

Oh, just throws it off. And then Max looks, his eyes get this big, and he's like, I don't wanna do it, and he goes, and I grabbed his leg, and just took him down the slide with me. And so, and then it this big, and he's like, I don't want to do it. And I grabbed his leg and just took him down the slide with me. And so, and then it was like, then he were crying, it was a mess, and I was like, oh, fuck, man.

You know what? I gotta say something, you know, shame on us because my son and your son, they jive really well. And I bet if we went to a place like that, I bet they would feel, I bet they would encourage each other. Well, that's what the girls, that's what the wives thought with Hunter and him, because they're the best. And Bunny, who is, she's only three, two and a half. Yeah, but she's doing all the stuff. But they're so different. A race actually

is similar in that way. Yeah, so they hope for all that. I mean, again, I just know my son so well that if I just wait till he wants to do it, we'd be fine. And I can't force, because I want that right now because it benefits my life and my wife's because we have friends that have kids that are ready there. It's just like, hey, our kids probably, and same thing with like this, it's the same thing with the sports thing.

Like, he's not picking a ball up right now. It's not like the end of the world, or like he's not gonna ever play. He's not into it right now. And maybe he'll be into it when he's nine. And so I can't force him to play and do those things if I don't want to. Just like I can't force him to wanna ride

roller coasters at Legoland. And so it's just, it is what it is. You just reminded me of a study, because I'm thinking about all this right now, and I'm like, you're reminding me of the times I've done stuff like that. There was a crazy study that my wife showed me, and now it's a study on religion, but I thought it was a fascinating one nonetheless, that the parents whose children are most likely,

so parents who go to church, what kind of parents are the ones that their children are most likely to follow in their footsteps and also go to church and also get a good experience. You know what the one characteristic was? They had parents that apologized to them. Oh yeah, oh I can see, I can imagine that. That they felt grace from mom and dad. Yeah, yeah. So it's like they all said, oh yeah,

my dad would, he messed with me, or my mom would come and say sorry to me or whatever. And I think that makes so much sense, right? Because if you try to be Christian, but you don't understand the grace part about it, oh, you just feel judged, you're not gonna wanna deal with it. But if you were raised with parents

who were always okay with saying. I mean, that was even how we ended it. Like Katrina and I sat him down together and said, hey, you know, Mommy and Daddy are sorry we made you come here. Oh yeah, yeah, no, we totally apologized to him and said, you know, we're sorry, we had you come here. You obviously didn't really wanna come here, this is not what you wanna do we're sorry, we had you come here, you obviously didn't really

wanna come here, this is not what you wanna do, and we should've asked you. And even goes, he goes, I tried to tell you, Mommy, and I went, oh. Oh. Look at everything, that's your bad right there. Yeah. I mean, if you would've told me,

if you would've told me, we would've fucking came. In the moment you look at your wife, you trying to tell you? Yeah, totally, dude. Wow, we would have fucking came. In the moment you look at your wife, you trying to tell you? Yeah, totally, dude. Wow, I didn't know that. So the part two, it also helps to, you know. You know what you just did, by the way? You just changed that whole memory for him.

Sure. Because now when he thinks back, he's not going to think about, oh, my dad was disappointed. He's going to be like, oh, man, my dad didn't apologize. Yeah, I know. The reason why I did it is because I know he knows me so well that he doesn't get these, I don gonna have to apologize to you. Yeah, I know. And I made sure I, the reason why I did it is because I could, I know, he knows me so well that he doesn't get these, this, I don't get frustrated with him. I don't get, I know he could feel my disappointment.

Multiple times I saw him look at my eyes and I definitely gave him that look like, daddy's not happy right now. But that's why at the end of the day I was like, you know, daddy's sorry, I shouldn't even made you do this. Good for you, man. And then I make, you know, then I realized too, and I started telling Katrina, I was just like, we can't have our cake and eat it too. We can't have this son that is so amazing

and all these other things and quiet and sensitive and all this, and then he's also this daredevil, it's like you kind of get one or the other. And we were, what I'm glad about is that what he is not is this shy, introverted, anti-social kid. Like we were on the plane, it was so cool, we got stuck on the tarmac. Oh, he's a friendly, open kid.

Oh, dude, he had the whole plane, dude, it was so cool. Was he really? It was so cool to watch. We're getting to get our stuff, and everyone already stood up to get their stuff, so you know when everyone's like, crowded, wanting to get off the plane, and they held us back.

And so we're standing for like 20 minutes, and he ends up just start, he introducing himself to everybody and telling them teaching them all about storms and asking them where they're from and what kind of storms are in their city and that he had everybody in the plane the whole plane was listening to him converse with each person he talked to this lady that's the best trait between you and your wife oh man it was just and her and I didn't say a word we just we just her and I just looking at other, kind of laughing and smiling and watching him and like everybody on the plane talking to him and him just having a full-on conversation with Street.

So I love that even though he's timid about certain things, he's not timid in life. Like he's not afraid to walk up to a stranger, talk to them, look them in the eye, like people... Like he's got that quality because I think it would really bother me if he had this kind of quiet, shy personality and then he was also introverted, anti-social, had no friends, then that would really start to... Yeah, that's more like a red, like a lorma. Yeah, that would start to worry me more. It's just like, no, my son just don't like to do shit like that. It's all this, you know, say like everything else, he's cool. So I just got to remember that. So mom and dad. Earlier we were talking about a depression anxiety a study came out or should I say a graph I saw a graph that was listing natural compounds for

depression anxiety and their effect based on studies at the top of the list was saffron which is one of the ingredients of the happy drops. Oh yeah. Yeah so it's getting a lot more you you know, a lot more publicity now on it being, because typically when I say natural antidepressant, you'll think like St. John's Wort or Sam E, which both have studies that support them. Saffron is now leading the list of like natural ways to... Leave it to Drew and Organifi to be on top. On top of it. Always. Like before everybody else starts talking about it. He was that way with Sheila G,

he was that way with Happy Jobs. I gotta ask him if he's got somebody on his team or is he just, I think he's a big guy. He's really dialed in, dude. When I talk to him about supplements, it's rare that I talk to someone about supplements who's as weird about them as I am. But I'll talk with him and he's like totally on it.

Which is also unique for a founder CEO. Typically you have, you're the business guy and then you hire the guy. He's the guy that does that. He's the guy who like is into all that stuff. So shout out to them for always being on top of stuff. I love those things, dude. I know, isn't that cool?

Yeah. Okay, I gotta bring this up because I saw one of the most impressive things I've ever seen a 45 year old man do in my entire life. I gotta talk about Justin's overhead press. Bro. I cannot believe it. Bro, what the F?

I cannot believe he did it. That's gotta be one of the strongest overhead presses I've ever seen. I thought it was the stupidest thing you could ever do, by the way. Now I can say that a lot. I felt that energy from you. Bro, when you decided you were gonna go,

I mean, literally. He just threw a big ass number out, like he's never done it before. I mean, what's this guy doing? Yeah were gonna go, I mean literally to me... He just threw a big ass number out like, and he's never done it before. What's this guy do? Yeah, I thought, I mean... That's just kind of how I roll, but yeah. It's impressive, I think, at any age. Bro, that's an impressive bench press. That's an impressive squat.

Yeah. And you overhead pressed that. 315? I can't believe it. I was pretty pumped, dude. Oh, I bet you were. So how did you go into it? And then like, was your like did you psych yourself up? Were you like? I mean I want to hear I want to hear too what?

Because I know along the journey you and the series is showing people how you did it and we're gonna be releasing the one That shows yes, and by the way, it's on YouTube on mine pump TV on mine pump TV and it's we're about a couple weeks ahead so It'll kind of catch you up to the point where we actually show. So spoiler alert. Yeah I know this is a bit of a spoiler alert. That's okay though because I think it still is very interesting to watch the journey because you've openly admitted like some things you didn't do right at the beginning that you've changed and modified. Yeah. Like go over some of the one of the some of the things that you definitely figured out and changed. And then is

there anything that in these last, say, month leading up that really you felt attributed to that? Yeah. There's been a couple of conversations and we've had even people on the show and I'm kind of taking mental notes, even with Stan Efferdine, we were talking about junk volume and like even with Stan Efferty and we're talking about like junk volume and just kind of wasting your time in terms of if you have a specific goal, like what, like I was kind of approaching it more holistically, I'm looking at like reinforcing a lot of my overall body strength, which I think it was actually important that I did that, especially in the first month,

because I had been cruising on maintenance and I had been lifting but I hadn't been really stretching myself for years dude like I've just been like what I could just kind of get away with so for me I was like you know and watching your series I'm like I'm gonna try to like see if I can get ahead of this whole like injury thing because I know it was like something like that is like an inevitable stress point where if there's any kind of chink in the armor, it's, it's going to get exposed. So I was like, I have to, I have to really be diligent about reinforcing and, and, and doing this scientifically in terms of like what I know now, like I need to take those steps and not just let my ego come in and,

of like what I know now, like I need to take those steps and not just let my ego come in and push me through. So that was tough because I had like a lot of this undulating, like I have pain, but I'm taking it back. And I was still trying to like- Touch and go. Touch and go. And like I was on that line constantly the first month and a half, like just, oh, fuck, I went too hard. Oh, let's back off. No, I can do more fuck I went too hard oh let's back off no I can do more I went too hard back you know and so the the second month is really where I started to kind of cut a lot of the junk volume out okay and that made a big difference and so and again it what's cool is it's the whole thing was really emphasizing a lot of what we talk about on

the show of what your body really can adapt to versus what you're tolerating. So I got to that point where I felt like I could actually hold a significant more load, I can start stress testing it and let's actually do the lift itself and so around the end of the second month I just started to really start trying to put effort into the push press which Turns out like I I ended up down the road doing this as a jerk press, which is a different Version of it, but I felt like it's close enough. It's you know, it's something that Takes the same amount. Did you press 315?

Yeah. Yeah. I challenged anybody else to get it up there any other way you want. Yeah. Let's see. Did your friends help you? I was scared because like honestly I came in scared because I, I hadn't even front squatted 315 and I can't even tell you how long. Like it was like, I felt it and was like oh Shit idea how this is gonna go over. Yeah head, you know But I just I kind of I don't know man. It was this weird epiphany was just like I just have to listen to Have to trust in the fact that this is gonna play out the way it's gonna play out and

It was more of a psychological psychological endurance for me more than anything. Um, because I know I have the strength to produce and generate the force and I've done 275 before, but that was a long fucking time ago. Were you like in your twenties? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was in my twenties. That's a big difference.

Everybody. It is a big difference. Wait till you're in your mid 40s. Like 225 I was like I was confident like I could confidently do that pretty easily But that's not anywhere close to 215. No, bros 90 pounds heavier. So yeah, so then it was just a matter of Okay, if I'm gonna do this lift, I'm like somewhat proficient in it, not like I've never been coached in it. And then I just the light bulb and like, I gotta find somebody to look at my form and really like give me an idea of like some ways

I can improve these little nuances and like get get out of my head. And once I had a coach involved, now it was like a lot of the psychological torment I was placing on myself, I was like offloaded. And then it was like, he's like, no, all you gotta do is this, you gotta put more pressure on your toe, we gotta get your body in this position where you're stable. And then he just kind of broke it all down and then I was like, it just clicked. I'm like, oh, okay. And he's like, and something he said to me that really stuck was it's always gonna feel heavy.

And I didn't think about that because it was like, you know, when you get stronger, you're like, it's not gonna feel quite as heavy. You know, it's like, this is always gonna feel crushing. Bone crushingly heavy. Well, you know, like I guess you can, you know that thinking back, like once you get past a certain strength, all the weight feels heavy.

I feel like that's 300 pounds. At least that's what it's been for me. It doesn't even matter what the lift is. What the lift is is 300 pounds on the bar. It's always heavy. It's just a lot. It's a lot more than what I weigh. It's a lot of weight.

Anything below that is like, it feels a little more manageable, but once you get that 315 and above, it just feels always heavy. And then it's like, at that point, it's just a matter of if you can get it to move. It's like, if you can just create any kind of movement, like we can get you in a position where you're just going to trust your body to get into that position and hold and sustain it and lock it out. And so it, how'd you feel after you hit it? Incredible. I've been at first cause I, I honestly was ramping up and it was the shortest

workout because I was like, I just wanted to get to the fucking goal. Yeah. And that, that was the other thing was I was, I mean, I was, I, I decided to take, um, like five days off, like completely. Yeah. You got a peak. Yeah. Fuck all this. Yeah. Um, and so I, I, I got there and then, and then I was just in, in good psychological space. I was like, let's go, let's, let's go for it. Let's hit it today. Um, and so he just kind of was putting the bar, the weight on the bar, and then I was getting under each one. And then-

Did you know right away? Could you tell right away? I had this weird confidence that day, yeah. Oh, okay. And two, it's funny, cause like, you know, and Courtney is great, but she never really like, she'll say something that's so impactful for me, sometimes not even realizing it. Oh wow. She's like, I know you're gonna get it today. And then just like walks and goes like, she'll say something that's so impactful for me sometimes and I even realize it. She's like, she's like, I know you're gonna get today.

And then just like walks and goes like, you take the kids and you're like, you know, I'm going to get it. And it was like, I had that like weird air of confidence. And then, um, yeah. And then I got, I got to the point I was ramping up and it was 315 and I kind of knew it because before that he was trying to subtly kind of bring it up with kilos and. That's tricky.

Yeah, that's tricky. Don't look at the weight, we're fine. Like this is heavy, but I'm not sure we're there yet. And you know what's funny and ironic is the smelling salts fucked me up oh didn't work too much oh too much I probably already on fire yeah and I think too it got too amped to where I had too much forward lean with it and I went too quick with so it was so weird about it it's it's such a technical

like if I'm if I was to pull it off like in seamless, you want it to be like super smooth and like your body just, you know, gets into position. The technique's huge. So you have to like, you have to descend slower, which is, that's completely a contradiction. Oh yeah. Cause every time I like push press or do anything with power

it's like BAM! Yeah you're doing this like really quick coiling. Oh I didn't know that. And so I'm going slow down and then it keeps me more vertical so I'm like in the pocket. Oh you know why? I think going down too fast causes too much momentum. You get momentum and you got to reverse that exactly 315 now 385 or whatever. Yeah So so that was weird for me and like so the first two attempts I actually biffed like hard Went down too quick and then I was I was like really forward and I literally threw 315 at like Josh 315 at like Josh. So there's one yeah clip where like it was off and it was coming at him and then the next one I did three like so three attempts total third one I got. Oh that makes it even more exciting. Yeah in the third one I was just that was it. Bro you're a beast. You know how cool that is that you're,

like, at your age, lifting that much, first of all, I don't care what age you are, that's crazy, the fact that you're at your age, there's a lot of dudes right now who are watching and listening, who are in their 40s, we're a real happy dude. They're real, you see what I mean?

They're excited. 40s! Yeah, dude, that is awesome. It's such a cooler thing too than the bullshit I did, cause it's like, you get like a different high. Like, I don't get to experience that high. Yeah. It's not a it's such a cooler thing too than the bullshit I did cuz it's like You get like a different high like I don't get to experience that hot. Yeah, it's not the same You know say my name is Mike so like awesome Yeah, I don't ever like yeah sure, but it doesn't matter because My even my even though a little bit excitement is delayed. I have to wait for a report to tell me

Like you know instantly you're like, fuck yes, I did it. Where I'm like, well, I hope it comes in good. Yeah. You say, oh, cool, I'm there. I'm ripped. Cool. It's so different. Dude, that is so different.

Plus, I mean, it's easy to brag about. I lifted three of you. You're like, well, yeah, one time I looked. Yeah, yeah. I have a lot. You want to look at my pictures? I'm going to rest on that for a while, you guys. Are you kidding me?

You're going to tell your grandkids about this? And you got the video to show it, too. Yeah, it's good for your boys to see that, too, and let them know that you got a long ways still. It's funny. Long ways before you take this throne. You'll never beat Dad. The whole time, he's been extra chipping at me.

And since I've been training, I just it's funny because he used to be able to get me. Sometimes I wouldn't quite be able to hold my ground because he'd catch me off guard Yeah, and like he's been trying every angle and then it's it's weird when you're like in the zone and you're trying really strong I he just he's like One hand the best part about that is that you pushed 315 over your head It's gonna be a long time before your boys can even pick 315 up.

So imagine that's gonna be in their head like that for a while. It's like, damn, my dad put this over his head. I can't even get it off the ground. Bro, that's like 1% of lifters or less. That was my motivation, I'll be honest. They're strong. Oh yeah, your kids, your boys are strong, dude.

Especially Phil. That's what I mean. You just bought yourself at least five more plus years right there by knowing that, man, I can't even get 315 off the ground. My dad put this over his head. I ain't challenging. I got to say something.

You made a little comment about your wife saying that comment. It's funny. When you read about the power that a wife's words has on her husband's, it is profound. I've been reading a lot about that. She's really good about being subtle with that. But you know, just women need to know this as a wife because like it's different for them with their husbands. Women, you have the ability to crush or completely build up your husband with just your words. I mean this is biblical. It even talks about it

biblically. But her little, that little comment, you talking about that? A lot of wives don't know that. You can make your husband feel invincible. You think they don't know? I think they know. I think that sometimes they don't. I think you just mansplained all of them. I think they all fucking know.

I think sometimes they don't realize because they'll say things and you know, a lot of men are stoic. Not realizing they're breaking them down. I think most of us are naive. I think most girls are like two, three steps ahead. That's what makes them naive. Yeah, I think so. I think most of us are naive. I think most girls are like two, three steps ahead. That's what makes them naive. I think so, brother. I think so.

He's pretty good with the psychological games. He's like, I wanted to crush him. That's what he gets. Oh, that sucks. Anyway, I got to say this. On what date do we have the trainer series coming out? The bonus episodes, Doug? Is that on May 19th?

Soon, soon, isn't it? Soon. It's the 19th. That's on Monday. May 19th, we have three episode series. It's a bonus series. That's literally next Monday, right? Now, anybody can listen to it. It's on Monday.

Anybody can listen to it, but we did it for trainers. It's three episodes, and they're designed to make you a better trainer. And then if you go to trainerwebinar.com, you can also sign up for free for a sales train that I'm going to do, which is going to be on June 3rd. They're all free. So all of them are free. The episodes are dropped on Mind Pump, and then the webinar, you gotta go to

trainerwebinar.com to sign up. So if you're a trainer, go. And you don't have to, it's all free. You don't buy nothing. Trying to build some badass trainers. That's it, 100%. Let's do it. Mind Pump is now offering group coaching.

We've tried this in the past. It was extremely successful and popular. So we are now doing two groups. Two groups of 50, that's it. We're cutting it off at 50 people for both groups. The first group, fat loss. The second group is muscle gain. So if you wanna lose body fat or build muscle,

and if we still have space and you're interested, go to mindpumpgroupcoaching.com. By the way, it's our trainers. They're mind pump trainers we're gonna be coaching you go check it out again it's mind pump group coaching calm back to the show our first caller is Ethan from Georgia what's up Ethan what's up how you doing how you doing man how can we help you all right nervous nervous they'll get out but I'm all right all right good deal what's happening how can we out, but I'm all right. All right. Good deal. What's happening? How can we help you? So I'm dialing in calling in today because I'm really feeling the pull. Sorry about that. Really feeling the pull towards personal training.

I'm feeling I just did something that's been digging with me for a while. I've actually listened to every episode y'all had and since about episode 100, y'all really made me just kind of one ahead that way. And so the only issue I'm having with it is is the financial side of it. And since about episode 100, y'all really made me just kind of one ahead that way. And so the only issue I'm having with it is the financial side of it. I can't justify in my head leaving the job I have now, which gets me a easy paycheck, gets me a paycheck that I know is coming. And I know it's going to be there.

And I can't really get it through my head that I don't know what I'm going to be making. And I don't know if I'm going to cover my bills. I'm 23. I know I've what I'm going to be making. And I don't know if I'm going to cover my bills. I'm 23. I know I've got plenty of time to do it and I can really probably should just kind of suck it up and go and do it. But I'm letting my head get in my, I'm letting my head get in the way of it. So any advice would be appreciated. You have family, kids, you live at home, you live with friends. I live at home. I'm single. No kids, bro. Ethan, bro.

How's the time? Are you serious? Hold on, no kids. Ethan, now's the time, buddy. Are you serious? Hold on, hold on, give him a chance. Give him a chance. I want you to just take a, well hold on, pause real quick, Ethan. Think about what you just asked us. Okay, what do you think we're gonna tell you right now, Ethan?

Remember, you're talking to three, four guys who've started several businesses, who've taken big risks with families, with children, who've had to take that step. So just real cool, just pause for a second. What do you think we're gonna tell you, Ethan? The thing I think you're gonna tell me is just make the jump, but like, I'm in my head.

I just need, I need it to hold. I really am, I'm in my head. Yeah, yeah, you are. Do you wanna get out of that? I do, yeah. I wanna get into the personal training business and get out of my head and I wanna get out of it. You do. Yeah. I want to, I want to get into the personal training, but you're not going to have, you're not going to have the right feeling. If you're waiting for the right feeling to do it, it's not going to happen. Just make the decision.

No better time. Like in terms of where you're at in life and in everything around your responsibility wise, this is perfect for you to just go for it. It may be by the sound of you, it might be a disadvantage that you are in such a good place to do this because Maybe that's probably why you're talking yourself out of it. Maybe you don't have enough on the line Maybe the fact that you know that you could go try it and you know You you still have a roof over your head and you'd be okay if you weren't making a lot of money and maybe the fact That you don't have enough risk is what makes you scared. But this is honestly the best opportunity. You'll look back at this time in your life when you get older.

If you don't do this and you're going to because you're always going to wonder if you if you if you're even considering being the trainer and you know what you what you're going to know in your 30s and 40s looking back at this time in your life, you're going to go shit. If there was ever a time I should have done it, it was then because I'm not gonna starve, I'm not gonna not have a roof over my head if I fail. It will suck, it'll set me back for a couple months, I'll have to rebuild or get a new job. But all in all, you couldn't be in a better situation

to take a risk like that. Yeah, look, worst case scenario, first off, what you should do, what I think you should do, and I'll try to convince you, although part of me doesn't want to convince you, part of me wants to say to you, then don't. Yeah, exactly. If you're gonna let your fear run you that way, then this isn't for you. But I'm gonna convince you a little bit. Be an accountant or something. What's the worst that could happen? You try it out for a year, it fails. Okay? Can you

get another job? Will mom and dad kick you out of their house? No. Are your kids gonna starve or you don't have kids? No, no. Is your wife gonna leave it? You don't have a wife. You're fine.

So what's the worst that could happen? The worst that could happen is you took a chance. I'm gonna tell you the story I like to tell my four-year-old son on how I explain bravery to him. Okay, let's imagine there's a building that's on fire. Superman flies in the building and saves everybody. Is he brave? No. No, because Superman, fire don't touch Superman. He can sit in a fire. Firefighters that go in that fire that could die, they're being brave, right? Because they're scared.

So right now you're scared. So you have a choice. You can choose to be brave, or you can choose to not be brave. That's on you. Okay. Okay. You finished your- Yeah, that's about what I was thinking,

y'all, we're gonna thank you. Well, I mean, Ethan, the fact that you've listened to every episode too, Ethan, and I mean, I do love that you've probably heard us tell people how hard it will be and that it's, it's a hustle and a grind. And so, and the fact that you still want to gives me hope that, you know, this is something for you. But man, you, I tell you what, if you, if you don't do this, you

will look back at this time in your life and it, this will, this will haunt you, dude. It really will. It'll haunt you because you'll go, never in my life did this will haunt you, dude. It really will. It'll haunt you because you'll go, never in my life did I have the opportunity I had to take a risk with the least amount on the table than probably right now in your life. As you get older and more responsibility and other people you're responsible for

and more pressures like a mortgage and all these other things, it only gets even scarier to make decisions like this. 10 times scarier. Yeah, so. I remember when I was, let's see, these other things, it only gets even scarier to make decisions like this. Ten times scarier. I remember when I was, let's see, I was 18 years old. I was a trainer and I was going to college at the same time. I started moving up very quickly in the company and I realized I had to either step down from

my position or go full force in the fitness industry. This was a big decision for a kid. My parents didn't pay for college. I'm first generation American. I would have been the first person to graduate college in my family. And I had this path. I was going to become a physical therapist. And so what I did is I said, I'll give myself a year.

So I'm going to go 100% for a year in fitness. 100%. So I don't want to look back and be like, I could have tried harder. I'm going to go 100% for a year in fitness, 100%. So I don't wanna look back and be like, I could've tried harder. I'm gonna go 100% for a year. At the end of the year, if this is not working for me, I'll go back to going to school. And so that's what I did.

And guess what happened? I never looked back. I did the same thing. Same agreement, make that agreement with yourself. The thing I worry about, Ethan, when I talk to young men that are in similar situations to you, is because it's not scary enough. You think it's scary, it may not be scary enough, they tend to drag their feet. Because they know that in the back of their mind, they have this safety net of mom and dad will take care of me or my family

won't leave me out. And sometimes that can be what doesn't get people a load of it. And so that's the only fear I have is that it's actually not as scary as you think it is. And it needs to be scarier sometimes for people like, I think this is- Maybe we should call his parents and let them kick him out.

Yeah. Are you, is there a big box- Plant the pressure. Is there a big box gym by where you're at? Driving distance? Just down the road, yes sir. Oh cool, okay here, look. Go get a job at the big box gym as where you're at? Driving distance? Just down the road, yes sir. Oh cool, okay here, look. Go get a job at the big box gym as a personal trainer.

Start like that. You're gonna get a paycheck, the leads are there, it's the easiest way to become a trainer. It's also one of the best ways to learn. You've heard us talk about this a million times. You're gonna be exposed to a lot of people, a lot of volume. Train at the big box gym, become the top trainer

at the big box gym, and then see what you wanna do from there. You're the number one trainer. That's step one. And I'm gonna tell you right now, you'll probably get hired. If you go over there with the right attitude, hey, I wanna be a trainer, this is my passion, I wanna learn, the fitness manager there's gonna be like,

you're hired, and then go for it. It's like one of the easiest ways to go. Start there and then see what happens. What Sal said is the most important advice in my opinion when he said that the number one thing strategy, because this won't be the last time this happens in your life by the way, you'll have decisions like this that you you'll be hesitant to do, is to make peace with the worst outcome. Play out the worst outcome in your head. You try this for a year, you

fail at it, you suck, you don't make any money, you're living on top ramen for a while, all the above. Play out what the worst scenario for the next year is and make peace with that and go like, okay, if that all happened, right? If I failed, had to do all those things, would it be the end of the world? Would I still be able to pick myself back up? Would I still be able to get another job? Yes, yes, yes. Okay, I can do that. I can do that. Now, once you make that commitment, you do everything in your power to not. You go hard.

Yeah, to not fail. But you make peace first with what that worst case scenario looks like. And ask yourself, Kit, will I be okay? Can I survive? And if the answer is yes, then you gotta go. Open up your schedule, man. Don't limit it once you get there too.

Train everybody. Yes, yeah. You don't have a window of, oh, this is when I'll be available this is when I can work. You live there. Don't miss any of our webinars either that we're doing and getting involved in our community because we're helping guys just like you as you go through. I mean we just had an in-person one with a bunch of trainers that flew out here to spend some time with us and our goal is you guys that have been listening to us for this long that

are inspired to become trainers is to help elevate all You guys so make sure you're eating up all the content that we'd be putting out there. Yep right I appreciate it. That's what I needed to hear Is that I was being stupid? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're not being stupid. You're being scared. Yeah, you're actually being smart You're overthinking everything you're overanalyzing're actually being smart, you're overthinking everything. You're overanalyzing it.

Oh my God, what happens if I, you know, whatever. It's not stupid, it's scared. So you gotta choose to be brave, go to that big box gym down the street right now when you hang up, and go get yourself hired, let's go. Yep. Okay. Okay.

Guess what, guess what, Ethan, you know what I'm gonna do because I think you might need this? Yep. OK. OK. Guess what? Guess what, Ethan? You know what I'm going to do? Because I think you might need this. I'm going to have you back on in 60 days. And we're going to check in on you. And don't disappoint us, because we'll make fun of you the whole time. Yeah.

All right. OK. Yeah, I got it. 60 days, we're going to get back on with you, OK? And we'll coach you a little bit. All right, Ethan. Go get that job. Go do it.

Get it. Yep. All right. I appreciate it, y'all. Best do it. Get it. Yeah All right. I appreciate it. Yeah That's a lot of good He's like I got no kids I live at home You got nothing stop what are you doing? You know, I'm gonna tell a story just for our audience Just so they know because okay we have

We now have a few trainers at work for us here at mind pump and And we could, if we wanted, we could hire 100 trainers tomorrow. We have a lot of people who want to work here, but we're doing it slow on purpose because we want the best of the best. So in order to work here, it's hard. So I'm going to tell a story of one of our trainers, Marcelo. Marcelo is an excellent trainer, but when he came here, he left a nice six figure career, and I mean retirement, benefits, career. He was making, well into the, he was making good money.

And he came here and he worked for free for a couple months as an intern. Then he got paid little as a trainer, and here we are now, I don't know how many months later, four or five months later, this guy's getting commission checks that are $5,000. Commission checks, not including his hourly pay, but he had to come and make it happen

and take that step and be brave. And he did. He did all the way in. And he's got a very bright future here at Mind Pump, but if he didn't take that step and if he wasn't brave, and if he didn't pressure and trust the purpose, which is what we're talking about, it would never happen.

Our next caller is Jake from New Jersey Jake what's happening? What's going on Jake? Not much man, what's going on? Just uh, this is wild All right, so question I'm like a fitness enthusiast 10 plus years now I've done everything from like the bodybuilding, yoga, the crossfit, the martial arts.

And recently, about two years ago, I had a chiropractor injury, an adjustment, which. Left me pretty much like bad ridden for about two weeks. Oh, wow I never thought I was gonna be able to work out again. I Completely cut back everything I just started walking again like walking And a lot of like so building up to movements, kind of building like that posterior chain stuff.

And about 18 months later, I was about 70 percent pain free. So then I started going back into lifting, but I was always terrified to go into my squats, my deadlifts, stuff like that, just the from the pain. So I found out about you guys about four months ago, and I immediately purchased symmetry through you guys. I can currently just finished it last week and the first three phases, I was would say I was 99% pain free.

I felt absolutely amazing. back to my normal self. The five by five phase, however, kind of completely reverted. And I kept everything. I didn't try to push too hard. I kept you know, I still had a couple reps in the tank, I focus strictly more on form. I wasn't trying to, you know, be me at 21. But it was just like the morning pains, the aches. Basically, my question is, I'm having my first kid soon on the way in July. All I want to be there is, you know, I want to be able to wrestle with my kid, I want to be able to play with my kid, I want to live pain-free with them for my family Where do I go from here? I? Got with the symmetry how good I felt to keep that balance of being able to be in the gym Feeling good on the outside and living a normal life good question Yeah, is yeah, did you get and did you have an MRI?

Do you get anything diagnosed like a herniated disc or so I have I did get an MRI and it said I had six herniated discs Okay But clearly that didn't happen just from a chiropractor adjustment Like I work manual labor. I'm an aircraft mechanic and I'm also six foot seven. So like I'm bending a lot. Yeah I was six foot seven, so I'm bending a lot. So I know that I probably already had the herniated discs and was living fine with them. It was just something that happened in that adjustment

that probably threw everything. Yeah, and are the herniated discs where the pain comes from? Yes, it's mostly like lumbar area. So here's a deal. What I would suggest, I would stay in symmetry and not do the final phase. The final phase and I would stay in there for a long time. Just repeat, repeat.

For a very long time. Especially since you were feeling so good during that. Yeah, it was too fast for you to move into bilateral five by five. And I know you've only been listening for like four months, but people hear us talk about the benefits of back squatting and bilateral. But in a case like yours, where I have a client

that has that and we're feeling so good doing all this unilateral, I'll keep you in unilateral for years if I need to. Because you can build an incredible, healthy, strong strong balanced physique. That's right. Never bilateral squatting. It just, you don't need, you don't have to do it.

Um, and so, uh, your body telling you that it felt so good doing that. And then it didn't feel so good. Go is enough for me as your trainer to go, yo, we're going to stay right here, bro. Yeah. I had a client. It reminds me of a client I trained years ago who had a couple herniated discs and had, she basically accepted that she was always going to be in pain. She was just always kind of like in pain and it was a problem.

She hired me as her trainer and I trained her for a year. Then she became a personal trainer and worked for me, so she became certified. So she continued to exercise properly, and it wasn't until maybe three or four years of proper exercise and avoiding exercise that bothered her and working around it, where the back pain essentially became nonexistent. So it took a long time of training.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with, unilateral training's amazing. You're gonna develop a great body, strong, the whole deal. So what I would say is I would stay in that unilateral phase for a long time, and then when you dip your toe in bilateral, and when you start to feel pain, get back out. Okay, it's not ready yet.

I'm not ready yet, gotta go back to unilateral. And every once in a while, you can go test it a little bit. Like, let me ask you this, when you started the final phase of symmetry the bilateral five by five When did you notice it started to bother you? It was like so when I'm doing the workouts, I'm fine. It's like the next morning It's like I feel my spine like almost like bruised and compressed on it. And this was after the first workout Yeah, like Yeah like from the start of the five by five. Right so what I would have done is after the first

workout you feel that back out. Right out. Yep I'm gonna go right back to unilateral and so that's the way I would treat something like that. Yep. Okay. So I can just, you could just stay there. Yes. Oh do you do those phases over and over again? Yes. That program is so balanced. It's got rotational stuff in there. Because you're doing unilateral, you could literally live in that. And just like Sal's saying, if we've been training for a long time, you might get to a point like, man, Adam, I'm feeling so good.

Let's test the bilateral. And then we test it. And the minute your body responds that way, I'd be like, nah, we're good. Go back. Now if it felt good, we'll be like, all right, cool. Let's, let's see, we, let's see if we can keep progressing this way. And then the minute again, you feel that way. I'm gonna go the other way. There is nothing wrong with you training unilateral forever if you had to.

Uh, which I don't think that's going to be the case. I don't think so either. And even to like a lot of the bilateral movements at that point, you can use dumbbells and kettlebells and you can kind of keep some management there so there's less compressive forces, but you're going to want to work your way back and that's sort of the goal, but it's literally you could live within those first couple phases for quite some time. You got to consider too where you were.

You hurt your back so bad you were bedridden as a young man who was not out of shape. And then for a long time, it took you a long time to get it to 70%. So it was pretty bad. Whatever it was, whatever happened was pretty bad. So the fact that you got a 99% is amazing. Stay unilateral for a while. It's probably going to take you a little while. I don't think it's going to be forever though. I think the fact that you felt so good training unilateral for a while. It's probably gonna take you a little while. I don't think it's gonna be forever though. I think the fact that you felt so good training unilateral so quickly, that to me is like, you know, at some point I think you'll be able to go bilateral. Stability, strength is gonna be everything, man.

You're gonna keep working on that. Jake, I'm gonna have Doug put you in our private forum so you have access to us and you also have access to Dr. Brink and Jordan Shallow which are two of the most brilliant movement specialists that we know. So you've got them at your disposal. You've got us at your disposal. Um, but yeah, go back to repeating the symmetry and then just check in with us. You have questions, you feel something weird.

You want, you just hit us up in the inside the forum or Dr. Brink and we'll help you through this process. All right. Awesome. I appreciate it guys. Yeah, you got it, man. Congratulations on the new kid coming you through this process. All right, awesome. I appreciate it, guys. Yeah, you got it, man. Congratulations on the new kid coming. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, thanks a lot. Right on, man. Yeah, I've had a couple clients like that where it took us years, and then little by little, gone. But it wasn't like, and I remember the woman I'm talking about, she was one of my very first clients

when I opened my studio. And you know, I was frustrated because I typically am able to get someone's pain to be gone in a couple months. And it was like a year later, but she stuck with it and little by little it became a non-issue. But it took years. Well, it's tough because you know, it seems like you're not not there's this idea of like normalcy and it's like they want to get back to like this sort of standard that they have created in terms of their training but what's benefiting them it's like it gets overlooked and it's like this is where we need to really emphasize well and so the audience knows uh there's programs we write that uh you should

phase in and out of and then we have programs that we write that you could phase in and out of. And then we have programs that we write that you could do indefinitely. Symmetry is one of those. Performance is another one like that. Those programs, and why that is is because they're so well balanced and you might be going, well why aren't you doing that in all the other, well that's because

the other one are specific. Very specific, right? Get strong, build your metabolism or shape your, sculpt your body to look a certain way but performance is overall right or symmetry is overall it's got rotational stuff it's got unilateral it's very well balanced and so the average person could follow that indefinitely and be very healthy very fit very strong and never feel like they have to move out so it's okay to do that. Our next caller is Josh from Indiana. What's up, dude? What's happening, Josh?

Hey guys. I appreciate you taking my call. How can we help you? Hey, just get here right to my question. Um, you know, obviously love the show as you know, lifetime, uh, trainers and, you know, being, being the experts that you are, this question might make you guys laugh or angry I'm not sure which but At what point would you guys recommend somebody getting like a post suction? You know, I went back I listened episode to 242 with dr. Anthony and it was awesome. It was very informative

He didn't really address like when you just say hey, you've done all you can you've done exercise You've done diet, but maybe you just need to go under you know, get surgery A little background, you know, I've worked diet, but maybe you just need to go under, you know, get surgery. A little background, you know, I've worked out pretty much my entire life. I started getting into weight training seventh grade for football, forever grateful to that coach for getting me into it. You know, I went through some fat years when I first got married, got a desk job, you know, you know, my mid 20s. But in the last eight years, I've really honed in, you know, really transformed my body, went through, you know, everything from weight training to heavy cardio, everything in between. As I age, right, I'm 37 now, you know, continue to just add more and more of my workouts,

more cardio, heavier training, you know, trying to add on as much as I can. But no matter how hard I try, I cannot seem to get rid of kind of my back that love handles I don't know what you what you would call that You know, I've went through multiple macro coaches multiple, you know lifting coaches, you know, different programs like that I've considered some of the cool sculpting but some of the results I've seen look like that may be fake or they've been Modified I know it might be ridiculous to spend money on liposuction of the dad who's never going to get on stage, but I also want to be the best version that I can possibly be of myself, and I don't want to get that age where it's a little too late. I appreciate it. Good question, dude. So I

don't know if I ever have or would recommend liposuction. I'm trying to think of a case where I would do that. Well, I mean, okay, look, obviously it's a personal decision and this is coming from someone who's struggled with trying to look a particular way since I was a kid, someone who's used hormones or abused them in the past, who still has issues with some of this stuff. I mean, recently I even talked about on the podcast how I almost went to the black market and got anabolic steroids and I stopped myself by the grace of God. So I know what this feels like, but you said something interesting.

Now I can tell you my objective opinion. You sent us a picture, you look fine dude. You look great. You look fine, you look great. But I'm going to tell you, I'm going to respond to something you said earlier. You want to be the best version of yourself Okay as a dad and as a husband, right? Okay, how many kids you have by the way? To seven-year-old and two-year-old good for you, man. God bless. Okay

What's the best version of you for them? the one who's happy with himself or the one who has to get cosmetic surgery and do things to himself to try to look a particular way. Which one's the better version of you? Yeah the first version obviously. It's a struggle. I know that. It is man and you got to you got to really look at the root. Not only that but by the way when you do it it won't solve that. Yeah and lipo is a pretty big deal. It's pretty it's that doesn't feel that. Yeah, and lipo's a pretty big deal. It doesn't feel good, but I mean, I've had clients that have had it,

but you gotta, I don't think it's gonna give you what you're looking for. No, it won't, it will not. I don't care if you do it the natural way of getting shredded like a bodybuilder would and getting on stage or getting it lipo'd out of you, it won't solve the feeling that you have. And that's what happens to people that do that.

And that's why I wouldn't recommend it is for those reasons. To each their own, if you wanna do that, I don't care. I'm not gonna judge somebody who does that. But if the desired outcome is to get that feeling you're looking for, you won't get it. You just won't. Not from that.

And it's really hard to tell somebody who in their head is like, how could you tell me that? It's like the same thing with like how people talk about having money and happiness. You can't tell me that if I didn't get rich that I wouldn't be happy. Like I got to figure it out for myself. And then you do and you go, oh, fuck, everybody was right. Happiness doesn't come from that. Happiness comes from within.

It has nothing to do with any external forces or what you look like on the outside. And we've dealt with this with so many clients who battle with, and that are not in good shape like you, that are way out of shape. And they go, man, I would just, I'm depressed, I'm sad, it's all this, it's because I look this way. And if I could just look that way, I would be happy. And then you get them in shape and guess what happens? They're still fucking unhappy, bro.

It just becomes something else or it manifests as another body part or because internally there's something that needs to be worked on. And so the answer to this is not the extra you know three and a half pounds of body fat you have hanging around your low back which by the way all dudes pretty much do and it took me all the way till getting on stage before that part goes away. In fact all of us buddy body guys, when we'd be getting ready for shows and you guys would be all covered up, like you walk behind a guy and you grab his back fat because you can always tell how crazy shredded he is by that part because even the leanest, buffest dudes in the gym still carry extra body fat there until they get single

digit body fat on stage. And so it's very normal for the body to be carrying that right there. And light pulling out won't solve it. Is there any kind of like performance driven goal that entices you at all in terms of like If I were to try to get strong or like if I if there's any kind of competitive spirit That would direct you in a way where you could just focus on you know This is this is something I want to conquer and accomplish. And you're going to put most of your eggs there as opposed to focusing so much on the aesthetic.

No, it's a great question. I think, you know, I was an athlete most of my life. And so, you know, I've always kind of got that competition or competitive mindset, where I just want to be better. You know, I want to be better than I was yesterday and whatever that looks like. And, you know, I know maybe it's an unhealthy obsession, but I guess that's that's kind of where the where it came from. I appreciate your your vulnerability to come on here and say, you're very honest. I think it's a really it's a really good question for other people to hear us talk about. I think it's I think a lot of people feel this way. Not a lot of people have the courage to come on the fucking big podcast and talk about it and

put themselves out there. So I do commend you for having the balls to do that. And I do think it's a really good question that a lot of people struggle with. But let me tell you from my experience of training a lot of people. And personal experience. We've all experienced it. Yeah. It's a struggle, man. And what experience, we've all experienced it. Yeah, it's a struggle, man. But what sucks is that if you did it, you'd feel good temporarily. Very temporary, it'd be a very short one. Just like they use the financial thing.

When you first reach that financial milestone that everybody thinks they wanna get. But especially with the body, it's like perception drift. That's a real thing. That's a real look it up. They see that with plastic surgery all the time. So it's not gonna give you what you're looking for. And who are the most important people in your life?

Oh, my wife and kids. Do they care? Do they give a shit? No, not at all. Does your kid, does your daddy get rid of these because I'll love you more if you, nobody cares. They don't care. Nobody cares.

You know, that's actually a lens that has helped me a lot from somebody who thought he wasn't gonna have kids and now has a son. I love to play that game, is if my son asks me about this, how am I gonna respond? Like, you know, obviously you know you can go get it done and they would never know, but I like to play the game, like if he were to watch me do it,

how would I explain to him what I'm doing and why I'm doing and then I play that out my head I go. Oh fuck. I don't want to tell my son I don't I'm insecure about my low back and so daddy went and got sir like shit That's enough right there to get me not do it It's like I don't want I don't want him to think that way too So I love the when you have kids I love talking to somebody who's got kids and that has contemplating something like this,

like play it out in your head. You having to have your kids sitting there watching you do it and then you have to, and listen, if you can justify it in your head and you think it's a good conversation, then hey, by all means. But for me, that always really helps me with it like deciding like,

maybe I shouldn't do that because if I have to have that conversation with him, I don't know how I would explain that in a way that would make me feel good about what I'm teaching or showing him Yeah, that's enough for me Thank you so much, I appreciate you guys. Yeah, you got it. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck. Good luck man. Thanks Josh Yeah, dude, the the body is a terrible God You know you worship the way you look, it is a terrible god,

and it's gonna tyrannize the hell out of you. And what I mean by that is exactly what Adam's saying, is you get what you think now is gonna serve you, and then that god tells you, oh, no, no, no, no, go further, it's not enough. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, but also this. Yeah, oh, but now it's not far.

There's always another thing. Keep going, keep going keep going keep going keep going and it's a it's a terrible God so I'm so I'm so glad though that like I mean it takes a lot of courage to put yourself so and it's good for the audience to see because I know there's there's a there's a there's a people that are watching like oh my god I can't believe that this dude is already in great shape and they're gonna judge him like that. But this happens, this happens to, I tell you what, 90% of your fitness people you all look up to. This is a struggle.

Oh my God, you kidding me? This is them. And by that, this is what makes them go into this as a profession because they can obsess about this and they can justify it as it's my job and it's what makes it's, it's helping people be healthy. But in reality, it's a deeply rooted insecurity that drives them to driving towards perfection in their physique that never ends that we all look at and admire because we think they have this great healthy balance in lifestyle.

It ain't true at all. And so I love that he brings this up so we can talk about it because this happens to people that are carrying a hundred pounds overweight all the way down to someone like that who looks really good still and is looking for the next thing. And I'll tell you right now, like it ain't going to, it ain't going to fill that hole. Our next caller is Chiara from France. Chiara, how are you doing? I'm fine.

Cool background. Actually, for you, I'm Italian, but it's okay. No problem. How can we help you? So I wanted to stay here because of the tour I fell, but I think it's a little bit too noisy. Right? So, we'll get inside. Maybe it's easier to understand what I'm saying.

Hello, guys. So I will skip all the parts when I say that you are amazing and I will stick with my question, even though something changes since I wrote the email. But yeah, I have to say you're really amazing and you're doing a great job. Thank you. Thank you. So I'm 51, I'm 5.10, I think that's the measurement as you say, and I'm 138 pounds and I'm quite active. I work like a lot and I'm doing my 10,000th step a day, that's not maybe. Before I was doing some marathons and triathlons and yeah, I stopped years ago and I was on the peak of my physical shape around 40 when I probably completed the insanity program that I know you're not very fan of, which

is high intense internal training. But without doing any diet stuff, for the first time in my life I saw my apps so I was like oh my god that's great. And I, of course I enjoyed the health and things got spoiled, I was like yeah working and taking care of the kids so So of course I gained some weight, etc. So three years ago I started menopause and it was really tough. The beginning was like, my goodness, I started working up with a really weird pain all over my body. My shoulder was like, I was crying. I couldn't sleep because of

my shoulder and I haven't done anything about it. And I got the tiny cell bone, never touched it in my life. And so because I used to have this feeling of interval training that make me feel better, I tried to do it again, but it was a disaster. So my body really didn't want to know about it. It was like, no, don't do it again. So I tried to educate myself and starting. And I have to say maybe because it's not my primary interest, but it was kind of difficult to find someone that you can trust. And finally I get to know you guys.

And that's awesome because there is such a big confusion around this fitness world and it's not really easy. So I started reversing my diet and that was amazing. Anyway, I feel a lot of energy started reversing my diet and that was amazing anyway. And I feel a lot of energy and something really strange happened. So my menstrual cycle reappeared. Which was, it was crazy. And everyone was looking at me like, no, that's impossible. So, and because of you, I wasn't super scared because if I Google it, the only reason that

this can happen is cancer. So at the point that when I wrote the email, I haven't done any tests, but I did. I did all my tests. Everything is just perfect. And my doctor just said, no, but yes, you're over, you're starting working against it. But could it be because of the, because of the risk, the reverse dieting, that I'm eating more? And I said, no, no, nothing to see about that.

I said, no, I'm sure it's about that. I'm 100% sure because of the feeling that I got, you know? It's just like I'm reversing my declining. So this is also awesome. Thank you for this as well. But my question is more about finding the right coaching and what can I expect from a coach because in this period, so I spent money and I tried to do it by myself and I wasn't able to. I tried to hire someone, but I don't know exactly what I have to do.

I mean, I will never be like a fanatic. I mean, maybe yes, but it's something that I really want to do it to feel better, to look better, of course. So it's something that I really want to do it to feel better, to look better of course. So it's not that easy, so because for instance once I had someone, but I didn't feel like, of course it gave me the program, but then I had to figure it out all by myself. And and I think that I wanted to talk about my feelings and stuff, but it wasn't like I don't know what to say, so I didn't feel like taking care of. I don't know.

Maybe it's just me, but I was like, yeah, I need something more. We have good news. So because it's, yeah, because I have to spend money, but also time and commitment. I really need to know what to look for and what's the sign that can say, okay, this is a good person for you or. Good question.

Yeah. That's the. You got to tell her. Go ahead. You got to tell her. No. Cher, we have such good person for you or. Good question. Yeah. That's the. You're going to tell her. Go ahead. You're going to tell her. Cheryl, we have such great news for you. You know, we have, we have our personal trainers here that do this.

We don't talk about it very much on the show, but we have a trainer that will, that we can have contact you. That's one of ours and we oversee all the clients here and have them call you and take care of you. Okay. That's awesome. Yes. Yes. Okay, great. Yeah, you should, what you're saying, so I want to address a couple things.

So a menstrual cycle can stop due to over training and under eating. And I had many, many female clients, this has happened. They weren't in menopause, they were younger, but this would also happen. I had women with issues with fertility and then they started reverse dieting, exercising properly, their fertility improved. That's a lot too. So in your case, your menopause might have happened a little

sooner because of the low calories and stuff like that. So that's what the refeeding would have helped with. Nonetheless, it does balance out the hormones a little better regardless. As far as a coach or a trainer is concerned, you should feel like they care about you. would have helped, would have helped with. Nonetheless, it does balance out the hormones a little better regardless. As far as a coach or a trainer's concerned, you should feel like they care about you. You should feel supported.

You should feel like, man, I really like working with this person. They understand me, they hear me, they listen to my concerns, they have my best interests in mind. They anticipate problems. That's what you should feel from working with a good coach, because if you don't, they're not going to be effective.

That's right. You have to feel those. Yeah, you have to feel those. Otherwise it's not going to be effective. There's a lot of cookie cutter programs out there. This has become a very popular space in the last 10 years with the internet and Zoom calls and the ability to do this. And so a lot of coaches and trainers

that probably shouldn't be coaches and trainers are now doing it and it is very difficult to know what's a good one or not. This is what inspired us to start this. We had so many of our listeners and clients reaching out to us saying could you recommend a coach? Could you recommend a coach to us that we finally said I tell you what what we're gonna do is build a small team in-house that are people underneath us that we can oversee the programming and make sure they're communicating to our people and taking care of them just like the way you want. Yeah, because sometimes I just feel stupid. Like, okay,

the program is not rocket science. I can understand it and I can do what is great thing and stuff, but I don't know if I feel like I don't have the right, I don't know. It's just, uh, coaches are there for a reason. That's right. Right. Guidance. You want to guide, you want to feel guided through this whole process.

That's their job. Yeah, exactly. It's just that. I mean, just been taking like a baby and, uh, cause I because I think I'm listening to your podcasts really all the time and when you get questions, there's a lot of time that are so specific and stuff and I say, oh my goodness, I'm completely lost. I will never understand what is the point of what they're doing and what can I do with it and stuff. So yeah, this is a very important thing. But do you think

that doing it like on Zoom or stuff? Because I feel, and that's what I start my my mail with, I feel that in Europe, we don't have the same approach. I don't know, maybe you know better, but I feel like I always try to come and see what the Americans are doing about that. I don't know, maybe it's just my sense. Well, we know some really good trainers. We've met some that are from Europe, but the fitness industry started and tends to come

from the US. When I communicate to trainers and coaches overseas, they tend to be five years behind maybe with some of the information. Nonetheless, it's unfortunate, this is good for trainers to hear this, but for the consumer this is not good news. It is hard to find a good coach anywhere, it doesn't matter where you're at.

Now you'll find more of them in fitness hot spots, like maybe Los Angeles or bigger cities, you're in Paris, there's probably gonna be better coaches there than there would be in some of the smaller towns maybe in comparison, but they are hard to find. There's a lot of trainers out there but there's not a lot of really good ones. So do you think that doing it remotely makes sense anyway? Yes, yes. And the nice part about one of our coaches, what they'll tell you if, uh, if they think that you need to get somebody in person.

So if you're going through them and let's say, okay, let's say they're coaching you and they start to hear things from you and they go, oh, you know what, she really needs someone to help her in the gym with the exercises. They'll recommend that to you. They'll, they'll tell you, they'll tell you, Hey, um, I can help you a lot here, but it sounds like you also need this, but that's you. They'll tell you, they'll tell you, Hey, um, I can help you a lot here, but it sounds like you also need this, but that's their job is to guide you through that process to make sure you feel, you feel confident as you go through this.

Think of a really good online coach as your, as your fitness and health manager. And they're going to piece it all together for you. And there's a, there's a lot, they could do a lot virtually with you, but if there are things they can't do, they're going to manage all of your fitness and health. So you're like, okay, I do need someone in person once a week to take me through some exercises. Your online coach that works for us will help you find that person. They'll help you find the right person who's going to train you in the right way because

they know what to look for. Okay. That's great. Because I also bought one of your maps transform because I say, oh, that's great because I also bought one of your, I bought the Maps Transform because I say, oh, that's a good start because it's, you know, it's almost summer and I, but I couldn't, I mean, by myself, I know I can't do it. It's just like, it's maybe for people that are very committed and stuff, but I can't, so this was kind of like... we're going to help you.

We're going to help you through it. You just need that. We're going to help you through it. Yeah, that's perfect. I've just one, another question that I can't find anywhere. The answer of, and it's about yawning during the, during the training. Is this something that happens to someone else or just me? I mean, I had this even when I was running.

I don't know. It's just like, if I can't have the all right. I don't know what it is. And, and, and I, I keep yawning during my training. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're not getting a, if you're not able to get a full

diaphragmatic breaths, uh, yawning is, yawning can be a type of a reaction. Okay, so what do we have to do about it? So sometimes, you could try belly breathing. Do you know what belly breathing is? I heard it from you, but I don't really know what it is. So you'll see this in a lot of people, especially people who are kind of like go, go, go, hard work, executive, they breathe very shallow. So it's chest breathing.

So what you would do is you would lay on the floor to practice this. You put one hand on your upper chest and one hand on your belly button. And then you take a deep breath and what you want is the hand on your belly button to rise first and fully before the upper chest rises. So you're teaching your body to get a full diaphragmatic breath and it's going to feel very strange.

You might even get a little emotional as you start to teach your body to relax, but that'll help and then you train yourself that way and it's good. It's a good practice before bed. This is also a good example of how our coach would help you. We actually have a video of one of our trainers teaching belly breathing. So they would send you a video and have you do this and work on it and then help you through that process. And if you have questions, they'll help you through that. So this is a great example of this is what this coach would do with you is you

bring up a question like that and they said, Hey, I've got a video to show you how to do belly breathing and I'll send it over to you right now. Oh that's perfect so you will I will how can I get in contact with this? When we hang up with you right now we'll have Doug have the trainer contact you. Yep okay that's perfect. Are those Chiara? Those pictures? Yes. You look great Chiara. We see your picture. Yeah, that was, that was, yeah, but that was years ago. No, no, no. That's what I wanted to go back to. No, even the recent one.

I mean, I was 40. I wasn't, the only thing that I see is that now I'm 51, I say, okay, but it's not years ago. It was just some years ago. And, and I did, what I did, but now I'm, I can't get to, to find, I don't know, I think I'm consistent but there is something wrong and I think the only way is just having a coach that is following me all the way. Let's see what happens.

It's a great investment and if we do our job well you're going to learn a lot so we'll take care of you. Okay, that's perfect. Alright. Thank you. Thank learn a lot. So we'll take care of you. Okay, that's perfect. All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll be in touch. Bye guys.

Bye bye. Bye. Yeah, good. That's great. Yeah, that's great. I've had clients that yawn like that before. Yeah. Yeah.

That's it. Trying to get oxygen. Yeah, and there's a term for it. Maybe Doug, you can look it up, yawning while exercising. It doesn't mean you're tired, if there's another reason for it. Maybe Doug, you can look it up, yawning while exercising. It doesn't mean you're tired. If there's another reason for it, but I've had clients do that. And belly breathing.

It's like you said, your body's trying to get in more oxygen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, but, you know, I mean, she's, she's, what she said is like, if you're hiring a coach or a trainer and you feel disconnect, you don't feel like they're really listening to you, you don't feel like they have your best intentions in mind. Like they're not gonna be effective no matter how good they are. You have to be fully bought in. Yeah. You

have to have that feeling with your coach for them to be able to do a good job regardless of what they have. It's all about communication so if that's not established you're not you know with a good person. Totally. Look if you like the show come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump. DeStefano and Adam's at Mind Pump. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body,

dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin

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