Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2606: 5 Ways to Become More Fit Without Exercise & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: 5 Ways to Become More Fit Without Exercise. (2:24) The role of the microbiome of the face for skin health. (27:57) Undercover nerds. (30:08) Making the case against living next to a golf course. (34:50) The classic combination to fight against Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease. (37:15) Will a fit body be rarer than a Rolex in 5 years? (41:25) The prison of inauthenticity. (46:19) The future of the gym industry. (55:53) #ListenerLive question #1 – What program would you suggest I run to improve my speed and agility? (1:01:28) #ListenerLive question #2 – How do I effectively incorporate cardio while still following your programs? (1:11:00) #ListenerLive question #3 – How can you change your negative body image? (1:27:14) #ListenerLive question #4 – How can I get past the mental aspect of reverse dieting? I’ve made good progress, but I want to continue seeing the weight go down. (1:36:34) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Train the Trainer Webinar Series Visit Caldera Lab for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MINDPUMP20 for 20% off your first order of their best products. ** Visit PRx Performance for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** No Code for 5% Discount gets automatically applied at checkout. ** May Special: MAPS 15 Performance or RGB Bundle 50% off! ** Code MAY50 at checkout ** Long-Lasting Stretching Induces Muscle Hypertrophy: A Meta-Analysis of Animal Studies A scoping review of the effect of chronic stretch training on sleep quality in people with sleep disorders Effect of post-exercise sauna bathing on the endurance performance of competitive male runners Sauna use linked to longer life, fewer fatal heart problems Mind Pump #1822: Wim Hof on How to Control Your Immune System With Breathwork Controversial New Study Links Parkinson's With Living Near a Golf Course Beneficial effects of nicotine Watch Untold: The Liver King | Netflix Official Site The Primal Connection: Follow Your Genetic Blueprint to Health and Happiness – Book by Mark Sisson Mind Pump Group Coaching Fitt Insider Gym/Studio Post Get your free Sample Pack with any “drink mix” purchase! Also, try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water: Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump Mind Pump #2585: How to Become the Ultimate Hybrid Athlete Mind Pump #2432: The Truth About Essential Amino Acids with Angelo Keely Mind Pump #2287: Bodybuilding 101- How to Bulk and Cut Shrink Your Waist with Stomach Vacuums | MIND PUMP Hip Flexor Deactivators- Do these first to maximize your Ab development Visit Transcend for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer! ** 25% off all GLP-1s – This includes the GLP-1 probiotic which people can order through their specialist. ** Mind Pump #2601: How to Eat and Exercise for Different Body Types & More (Listener Live Coaching) Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Wim Hof (@iceman_hof) Instagram Max Lugavere (@maxlugavere) Instagram Liver King (@liverking) Instagram Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (@drgabriellelyon) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. You guessed it, this is mind pump. Today's episode, live callers called in,

and we coached them on air, but this was after the intro. Today's intro was 58 minutes long. Now in the intro we talk about fitness studies, fat loss, muscle gain, current events, talk about family life, it's a good time. Again after that we got to the live callers. By the way if you want to be on an episode like this one where you call in we help you on air, email us your question at live at mindpumpmedia.com. By the way for trainers and coaches go to trainerwebinar.com.

I'm gonna teach you guys how to sell training. It's totally free. Go there to register. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Caldera Lab. Today we talked about how their skincare products promote a more healthy microbiome on the skin. What does that turn into?

Better looking skin, less acne, less blemishes, less wrinkles. By the way, studies show that this actually works or stuff works. So go to calderalab.com forward slash mind pump caldera is spelled c-a-l-d-e-r-a so calderalab.com forward slash mind pump use the code mind pump 20 get 20% off your first order. This episode is also brought to you by PRX Performance. This is fitness equipment made for your home that is better than the stuff you by PRX Performance. This is fitness equipment made for your home that is better than the stuff you see in the gym.

They have squat racks that fold into the wall. They come off the wall by about six inches. When you're ready to use it, you pull it out. Super stable, super high quality, and you can get 5% off if you go to prxperformance.com forward slash mind pump. We also have a sale this month on some programs. Maps 15 Performance and the RGB Bundle are 50% off.

If you're interested, go to MAPSFitnessProducts.com and then use the code May50 for the discount. All right, here comes the show. T-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time. Ah, shit, Doug, you know it's my favorite time of the week. Three winners this week, one for Apple Podcast, two for Facebook.

The Apple Podcast winner is JDBFubar. And for Facebook, we have Alicia and Andrew and Jim Tony Roods-Hoggin. All three of you are winners. Send the name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com. Include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you. The best way to get more fit is to exercise this is true But did you know there are ways to improve your fitness and your performance that don't involve exercise

It's true and it's backed by studies today We're gonna talk about five of the best ways to become more fit that have nothing to do with exercise. Let's go I like this conversation. Whoa, maybe because I'm in this headspace right now where it's like Yeah, do her least amount of work No, I mean I just I think that there I think we we often especially Our space it's like macros lift weights like it's like calorie surplus calorie deficit in macros lift weights is like the conversation and it's like calorie surplus, calorie deficit, in macros, lift weights is like the conversation. And it's like, there's a whole host of things

that make you a healthier, better version of yourself. And maybe sometimes you don't make it to the gym to hit the weights, or maybe your macros aren't ideal or you didn't track. And so, you know, does that mean the whole day goes to shit? Or are there other things that I can be working towards that still make me a healthier, fitter version than who I was yesterday? And I just think it's a good conversation because sometimes there's still an opportunity

maybe if you missed on those other things to still. Yeah, no, great. And I actually made a list of things that have been shown in studies to improve your fitness. I got even more specific. Not just your health, but that will improve your fitness results, your endurance, your strength, your muscle growth. And we start, some of these are much more direct, others a little more indirect.

But doing these things, of course, nothing will improve your fitness like exercise, okay? Nothing comes close to it. But all the things we're listing here, you can actually add to your current fitness routine and you'll get better results as a result of doing these things and they don't involve more exercise. I'll start with the first one, which is static stretching.

Long, static stretching. Now, static stretching got a bad rap sometime in the early 2000s, I want to say, when studies showed that static stretching before a workout actually increased risk of injury. It reduces power output by five to 10% and increases risk of injury. And so before that study came out,

we were all encouraged to static stretch before we worked out. And then people just abandoned it at that point. But there is a lot of value to it, especially to get in the parasympathetic state. Totally, 100%. So is this the best way to warm up? No, except for specific cases. But is there value that's unique to static stretching,

especially long static stretching, where you're holding a deep stretch for two or three minutes, is there value to it that can actually contribute to your even muscle gain? And the answer is probably, probably. And I say probably because we have animal studies that seem relatively conclusive.

Human studies are a little bit more murky, although old school bodybuilders swear by it and I've now lived long enough to know that the old school bodybuilders are often more right more than they're wrong when it comes to muscle building stuff. That interest at stretching. Yeah, so long static stretching has been shown

in animal studies and human studies kind of point to this a little bit. Why would you guess it's murky? Because cutting a muscle off of a person and examining them is much more challenging. You get this with an animal. It's very straightforward. You stretch one wing, you leave the other wing alone.

Like you take your, you know, you compare the two sides, see what happens. Human studies are much more difficult to replicate in this case. But what we see in the animal studies is hypertrophy. We see muscle growth. We see sarcomeres being added to the muscles themselves. So you're actually adding more contractile tissue

with these long hold stretches. These really long hold stretches. Now it's not gonna come close to strength training, but in addition to strength training, it's probably a good idea. Also because it doesn't cause damage, doesn't compromise recovery. If anything, it probably improves recovery.

And a lot of it has to do with what you just said, Justin, which is putting you in a parasympathetic state. Well, and I guess too, there's a little bit of a difference there if you're talking about holding that stretch with tension or if you're doing a passive version of the static stretch and both have different values. So for what you were mentioning earlier,

the one with tension probably applies. Yeah, and the parasympathetic, like why is that so important? Static stretching, the kind of tension probably applies. Yeah, and the parasympathetic, like why is that so important? Static stretching, the kind of that really puts your body in parasympathetic, will probably improve the quality of your sleep. We've talked ad nauseum at the benefits that sleep have to muscle gains.

Like right before you go to bed, 15 minutes of deep stretching will probably give you better sleep. And then also a greater range of motion. We know this in studies that a muscle under tension when lengthened, that's where a lot of the muscle growth happens, now it happens throughout the whole range of motion but the stretch position is where you see kind of

an enhanced hypertrophy effect. And lengthening your range of motion will likely improve your ability to build muscles in the studies that show that long range of motion will likely improve your ability to build muscles in the studies that show you know that long ranges of motion more effective overall than short ranges of motion so it's this is a cool one and bodybuilders have done this for a long time and typically they would do it either in between sets or at the end of a workout well they'll get a muscle really pumped and there's really deep kind kind of intense stretches, and they swear

by the muscle growth effects. I just like this as a, you know, I like that you connected it to sleep, because here's an example of, you know, my point I was trying to make about, you know, there's always these other things that we can do, and even if the day got away from me that I didn't hit my macros, I didn't get my workout in,

I wasn't very active. Like, oh man, it's like, right before I go to bed, it's like, you know what, I can do this, I can get down, I could work on my 90-90, I can do some of my stuff like that. And not only is that pro health, pro fitness for me, it also will as a byproduct, improve potentially my sleep that night, which we know the benefits of that when it comes to building muscle and health and performance and energy and all the things. So I love that as a, you know, hey, oh man, I still have that option before I go to bed and still can write off the day as like,

hey, you know what, I didn't just completely write the day off, I still did something that improved my health for the day. I love communicating those types of things because I think we get so caught up on the macro and the lifting weight part. And it's like, there tends to be, so you start the day off bad on the macros

and a lot of people go, oh, eff it, I had a bad day. Or you missed your workout time and so, oh, I didn't do that, and so you write the day off. It's like, no, there's other things I can do to still improve my health. But what I also like about this is that oftentimes when you're dialed in, because we have a good segment of our listeners are very consistent,

what can I add to my routine? And they're kind of already redlining. But you can add static stretching. It's not gonna take, it's not gonna add more. It's recuperative. Yeah, it's not gonna take away from your recovery. Only accelerate, yeah. And it's gonna enhance muscle gain.

So it's like you're doing a little extra strength training, which you can't because you're so consistent and you're already redlining. Now you've just improved your recovery and you're probably going to build a little bit more muscle. Next, this one is remarkable in regards to its effects on endurance, in particular, sauna use. There are studies on endurance athletes. They're relatively well-made studies. Well, they'll take endurance athletes and then they'll have them add a sauna session post run or bike or swim.

They get a 32% increase in endurance from the sauna. And that's all they controlled, right? That's all they added was the sauna. For health, I mean, there's a 50% heart disease risk. 50% from sitting in a sauna, which is super, super crazy. Now here's what's cool about this. Let's say you're just into strength training and you're not like an endurance person. You don't want to run, you just want to build muscle. Here's a way you can improve your endurance without sending a competing

signal that says don't build as much muscle. Sit in the sauna post-workout. Is that gonna benefit your muscle gain? Yeah, you'll be able to do longer sets. Higher reps. Exercise is a mimicker, but it doesn't apply to that same type of a stress. Absolutely, and you're right, it isn't really that much of a stress in the body. It'll probably, except for maybe in extreme cases, enhance recovery.

Benefits your circulatory system. Do you think that this is something that is, over the last few decades, has been increasingly better, or it was something that was always this good? You don't understand what I'm asking? Like, is it part of the context of where our health is currently right now, and the way we eat, and how stressful our lives are

compared to, say, 100 years ago? So do you think that these same benefits applied 100 years ago as it does today, or do you think part of that has to do with our current? That's a good question. We're probably tapping into something where the human body learns how to become more resilient under conditions that are outside

of what would be considered comfortable. And I'm sure if you go back 300 years, 400 years, there were periods of time when you were hot as hell. Right. And you're working and there's like no air conditioning. That's what I'm sure if you go back, you know, 300 years, 400 years, like there were periods of time when you were hot as hell, right? And you're working and there's like no air conditioning. That's what I'm saying. Like we've become so conditioned to be, I mean, we live in a time right now where regardless of the season or what part of the state or what country you live

in or state, and you could keep your temperature at 72 degrees day and night all the time with all the controls that we have, which is nice for comfort, but then you, if it's like a muscle and you adapt to those abilities to go up and down like that, you lose that. Well, what's crazy though with sauna use is it goes back a long time.

I'd love, Doug, to look up. Doug, if you wouldn't mind looking up, the history of sauna use or how long ago did humans start using saunas or heat therapy. It's old. People have been using it for a long time. I know in the Nordic countries, this has been part of their culture for a very long time.

And it's crazy. Here's the other thing that's crazy about it. You can sit in a sauna and burn, and the studies confirm this, one and a half to two times more calories than just sitting somewhere else. So literally sitting for 30 minutes in a sauna will burn twice as many calories.

And really what that is is that's your body working extra hard to try and cool your body, your core. That's part of it, yeah. It's working, right? Look at this. Humans began using saunas as far back as seven thousand years ago So they didn't have air conditioning back then but they still saw the benefits Yeah, I think what it does is we're tapping into it's like it's almost like a hack

tapping this part of the system of the body and Deriving all these benefits, but it's crazy because literally if you if you lift and you have an extra 20 30 minutes You can go to sauna afterwards and just have an improvement in vo2 max Yeah, and endurance without doing endurance training, without sending a competing signal. What was it, Sal? I believe it's three 20-minute sessions a week

to reap the max benefits for the minimum amount, right? Is that what it is? About three. There's always benefit, but once you get to three, you start to see really ramped up benefits. Right, and I think that's the least you can do for the maximum benefits. After that, you start to see really ramped up benefits. Right, and I think that's the least you can do for the maximum benefits. Yeah, yeah, after that you get diminishing returns.

You still get benefit, but it's not like three is where you, one to three is where you see the big returns. So yeah, that's a really cool one. Next up, cold plunge. Now I know what the studies show, that cold plunging after a workout reduces the muscle protein synthesis, it brings down inflammation, essentially bringing down the signal that tells your body to build muscle, but you're using the cold plunge wrong. Here's how you use the cold plunge.

You use it because it reduces damage and allows you to work out more. It allows you to practice your skills of your lifts more. It allows you to practice your skills of your lifts more. It allows you to practice on the field more or on the ice more or on the court more. So for people who are really into training and working out and they're like you know what I can't handle any more exercise but I want to get even I want to just ramp up my fitness I'm gonna ramp up the ability to learn these new skills. What can I possibly do? And you're doing everything else.

Cold plunge will allow you to add another workout, another practice, which listen, talk to any athlete, if they could do another workout or another practice without over training, like the benefits they get for that would be amazing. You're banking that neuromuscular memory. You're piling onto that So now you have more opportunity to to add volume to that Where if you can go to the to the cold plunge and and now apply again the next day where you lower down that

inflammation You can just keep you know, really accelerating that progress I think the same hypertrophy bros that threw shade on static stretching are the ones that threw shade on the cold plunge. They're too myopic with how they view it. Yeah, yeah. Because there was a period of time, like you said, where static stretching was a very common practice and then we went through this phase where all of a sudden it was just like, oh,

it's killing your gains and it's not helping your performance in the gym, so throw it out. Let's stop doing it completely. I feel like we went through that same kind of period with cold plunging has been around forever. It got really, really popular. Then after it got really, really popular, then comes the hypertrophy bro. So here's all what the studies say about.

Don't do it. Yeah, you're not building any more muscle by doing this. So throw it out also. And then we're quick to dismiss this. And what will happen is, you know, it'll know, right now we're still in the middle of the trend, that trend will fade because enough of that is that information, but it forever will be a good thing for you to do.

I'll create an analogy, just kind of illustrate this. Like if you had two individuals and time wasn't an issue, because time is almost always an issue for most people, so I want to validate that. Like doing less work to get the same results for most people is better. Okay, that's a fact, right? So most people are interested in fitness and health,

and if I can get them better results with less time spent in the gym, that's typically gonna be better. However, there are scenarios where, like I'll paint the picture, you have two individuals, both of them send the same signal for muscle building, except the other one gets to practice squatting, deadlifting, and pressing, let's say say twice as much. Who's gonna get better results?

The one who could practice the lifts more often. They're gonna get better at the lifts because there is a skill acquisition that comes from doing the lifts and I'm not even touching athletes. If you could throw the ball more or you could catch more or you could run more you could get on the court more with less damage. It allows you to practice more. So cold plunging for athletes like this especially hard training athletes and by the way they've used this for a long time. I know football players they would fill big you know garbage cans ice water. We would jump in yeah the physical therapy and we would do that

after practice all the time but one more thing I wanted to add on to this just because you know when we're talking about cold plunging there's other benefits to it depending on the protocol you use going into it too. If you're doing the Wim Hof protocol and it's really more focused on breathing as part of getting into that parasympathetic state and being able to handle that type of a shock and stress and quickly be able to find yourself through that sympathetic into parasympathetic for recovery. And so that's valuable. Hyperoxygenation is something that people way overlook, which, you know, to belly breathing,

something that addresses this lowers anxiety, helps to get you to recover more effectively. So it's a very important thing. Meditative elements to that as well. So box breathing, just that all contributes a lot to this conversation. Huge benefits that it gets overlooked and not talked about. All day long, we are being bombarded

with all these little stressors that elevate your heart rate, that sends your CNS firing, and it's like you learning how to control that in a environment, in a freezing cold environment, and it's like you learning how to control that in a environment, in a freezing cold environment, and control that will only get you better at managing all those other little struggles.

Look, I'm gonna, 100%, like if you're, if you wanna be a high performing individual, oftentimes what separates the best from the rest is what's known as arousal control, right? If you look at like a top NFL quarterback, what makes him better than the other quarterbacks in the NFL is that he's calm under times of stress. I experienced this competing in jujitsu where my fitness level in a competition was like 50% of what it was when I would practice. Why? Because I was too amped, I was too, you're nervous, you're excited,

you get in there and you gas out. This is true for athletes all the time. Like if you can be calm, and actually forget athletics, you wanna go do a talk, you wanna go talk to a girl, you wanna do whatever, you wanna get into a difficult conversation.

Arousal control dramatically improves your performance across the board and using the cold plunge has been shown, even if you don't practice Wim Hof, by the way, Justin, which that's just the best level. Yeah, that's just the one that I'm familiar with. But if just practice getting in there often. It forces you to have to do that.

That's right. It forces you to. You learn that. Yeah. You learn that practice. And there's really cool studies. You're better at actually being able to repeat or exactly what the study said.

But I've read great studies on your super hyper, your Steph Currys, your snow, Sean White snowboarding, where they've actually measured their heart rate when they're going for that gold medal run or hitting the free throw to win the game. And they're like heart rate, like in the middle of a game or in the middle of just coming down the hill, their heart rate and they're like heart rate like in the middle of a game or in the middle of a you know, going just coming down the hill.

Their heart rate is like it are resting heart rate, which is crazy. And then so great you measure that against an amateur and many and so they attribute that as one of the main factors that separates totally the excuse me. The super elite is that ability to be able to calm the heart rate down in those moments of stress. You can both have practiced the same amount of free throws going into that game,

but his ability to do that separates him that much by being able to do that. Totally. Next up is practicing. This one's going to sound silly, but I'll make the case. Practicing gratitude. Okay, so we talk about this often on the show, but if you talk to a fitness fanatic, or should I say somebody who has a good maturity around fitness, someone's been working out for 20 or 30 or 40 years consistently, and they're very healthy, and they have a good relationship with it,

one of the reasons why they have this good relationship is they see the complete host of benefits that being healthy has provided with them. They don't just see fat loss and muscle gain or the scale move. What they see is how it affects everything. Oh my God, I feel better. It gives me more energy. I have a better outlook. I'm more resilient.

It gives me better sleep. Now that doesn't happen naturally. You have to practice that. Our minds, our brains are wired to focus on things that can kill us, things that are scary. So if you just allow yourself to just run natural, what'll happen is scary, negative, anxious things are gonna be big and you're gonna focus on them

and you're gonna remember them. And all the good stuff, all the blessings, blessings all the other things you just don't notice and so this is what happens with exercise you go into workout and all your focus is on the scale is the scale you're gonna miss everything else are you gonna see as a scale and we did look to one of the reasons why we're successful trainers is we effectively got our clients to learn to focus on the other things and then the scale was kind of an afterthought or a byproduct or a as we effectively got our clients to learn to focus on the other things. And then the scale was kind of an afterthought

or a byproduct or a wonderful side effect. So practicing gratitude, the reason why it's a practice is it's not gonna happen natural. But the more you practice it, the more you notice good things, small blessings, all the effects that exercise provides. The mindset shift. You'll start to develop this more complete relationship

with fitness and nutrition, making it more enjoyable, the effects that exercise provides. The mindset shift. You'll start to develop this more complete relationship with fitness and nutrition, making it more enjoyable, something you'll continue forever, but more importantly, you'll program and eat in a way that's more appropriate. Because you're not, because for example, someone who wants to lose weight can lose weight and lose their athletic performance and become less healthy.

That happens all the time. But they don't see the negatives because all they see is the scale. On the flip side, someone who wants to lose weight, the scale may not move, but they're doing so well and everything else and it's just a matter of time before the body fat comes off. It's crazy because you can literally out-compete a lot of those negative thoughts that pervade you while approaching a workout or approaching anything during the day. It'd be cool to see a clear study on the power of that because I think there's even more

there than what you're speaking to. Just the power of having a positive mindset. I imagine somebody who is negative all the time or always poor me or this sucks or this always happens to me, that I would imagine would lead to a more unhealthy, unfit lifestyle. Simply looking at the positive of everything and then understanding that that's like a muscle also that you need to train, that it's not easy. It's real easy for someone to be sitting in a place of comfort and happiness and good things happen and tell others like,

oh, be positive, be happy. And then it's real easy for that person to go like, oh yeah, but you haven't been through what I just went through. It's like, so it's one of those things that you have to train and if you train that and practice that, when that time comes, your ability to reframe will be stronger

than the person who doesn't practice that. It's important to understand that your default factory settings are negative, scary, and anxiety. So that's your default. So if you do nothing, that's where you're gonna lean to. And yes, there's genetic variances in how far you are, but that's your default. All the positive stuff, you actually have to actively

focus on, that's why they call it a practice. Like, look, there were clients that I trained who were in chronic pain. And then we would get the chronic pain to go away and they would have so much joy from things like, I remember I had a lady, I'll never forget this, I've talked about her before, she was in her early 80s. It wasn't even a day that I was training her,

I was training someone else. She walked in, my studio used to be next to a grocery store. She walked in, because she was so excited to tell me that for the first time in years, she was able to close the trunk of her SUV on her own without having to ask for help, and she was so joyful. I closed the trunk of my car all the time without thinking about it,

but she had a different perspective because she wasn't able to for so long, and it brought her joy. These, our default is to be negative. Practicing gratitude fundamentally shifts everything, but in regards to fitness and health, it will make your fitness journey something that you'll really have a full scope

and picture of and understanding of. It'll make it a relationship that will benefit you rather than one that may hurt you or one that you'll wanna discontinue. It's so true. Lastly is getting sunlight. You know what's interesting about this is, well obviously, okay, I'll talk about the obvious.

Getting sunlight allows your body to produce vitamin D. Most people are too low on vitamin D. When people, when the average person takes vitamin D, by the way vitamin D isn't a magic thing, it's just that we're so deficient in it that it becomes a magic thing when people take it. Many studies show that when people take vitamin D their strength improves, their hormone profile improves. Vitamin D

changes genetic expressing in the muscles that moves it more better in a better direction towards things like muscle gain and strength. And since most of us are low in it, going outside getting 20 minutes of sunlight is like one of the best things you could do for vitamin D production. I mean obviously you would always go the direction that you can prove in the science and connect it that way but I still feel like there's an unknown

or there's a still. There's so much. There's something else there about what the sun does. Information is what I've been told to. Yeah, I'm not completely sold on on there's not more happening there. I still, we talked about this just the other day. We had a conversation with somebody in here. We were interviewing and we went down the rabbit hole

of kids and raising kids and all this with that. We talked about, man, just the obvious difference of your kid when they get, and obviously our kids, they're no interest of building muscle and performing. They're not thinking that way, but yet yet there's a profound difference on their behavior, their mood, how well they sleep, all these things that they're getting by getting out into that sunlight. And so I think there's even more there

that we don't fully understand that is so powerful. All living beings benefit from it. And it's crazy to see plants, I mean photosynthesis keeps them alive And it's like we're just gonna discard that yeah, and we're living being you know it's got to affect us Yes, let me show that improves insulin sensitivity by itself Literally by itself you just get some sunlight and your insulin sensitivity improves it contributes to a better hormone profile It's been shown to raise testosterone in men with low testosterone.

It's been shown to regulate cortisol. It improves your sleep. Early morning or early day sun exposure has a very measurable impact on your sleep quality. So this is a big one, and if you work in an office most of the time, then this one's probably gonna be a big deal for you. Like if you live in work in an office most of the time, then this one's probably gonna be a big deal for you.

Like if you live in Hawaii and you're outside all the time, you're fine. But if you're like most people and your job is indoors, and the amount of sunlight you get is literally, you go outside your car. You live in England or Seattle. This will make a huge difference. And it's not exercise.

Oh, by the way, it doesn't take away from recovery, it only contributes to it. So all these things that we mentioned, you can add. You can stack onto it. Yeah, and it's not exercise. Or do independently and get benefits. It'll absolutely improve your fitness.

Pretty cool stuff. Anyway, I gotta tell you guys about, I was learning about the microbiome of the face and the skin and its role in skin health and stuff like that, it's super complex. There's like a really interesting interplay between certain bacteria and fungus on our skin

that when it's all in balance, the result is typically clear skin. When it's out of balance, the result tends to be things like acne, rashes, blotches, what we would consider unhealthy skin. So really, when we're talking about healthy skin, by the way, what you eat can affect the microbiome on your face too, so that's why sometimes people

will eat certain things and notice they'll break out and stuff like that. The microbiome is what you need to focus on if you want really, aside from general good health, again the microbiome reflects that as well, but the microbiome itself on the face or on the skin makes a huge impact. So when you think of a company like Caldera, right,

do you look at it then from that angle, like a probiotic for the face? Caldera Lab has figured this out. So they use natural botanicals, not chemicals, or should I say synthetic chemicals, but natural botanicals that have been shown to improve the balance of healthy microbiome and improve the skin barrier. So you can actually weaken the barrier of the skin because your microbiome is off, and then that can cause lots of problems.

So like their face oil and their cream, like you look at the ingredients in those, all those ingredients, all of those botanicals, that's what they do, they make the microbiome healthy, and that's why you get the good results on this. So is it fair for me to present it that way, like it's like a probiotic for the face? I would say prebiotic.

Or prebiotic. There's no bacteria in their oil, like Caldera Labs oil, but it definitely contributes. So that's why we'll get people, so I've used this example so many times. Justin and my skin couldn't be any different. He's dry, I'm oily, we both use the Caldera Labs skin oil. It makes him less dry and it makes me less oily.

Which is why we're compatible. What, dude? Thanks, Caldera Labs. I know me less oily. That's why we're compatible. What, dude? Thanks, Caldera. I know. It's pretty wild. Dude, I was going to say, when you were a kid, did you ever collect fungus and bacteria in petri dishes? Oh, no.

On my own? Yeah. You did? I feel like you would have. No, I didn't. In my room, I just have a bunch of them. Just stacked and organized. Did you have a little microscope?

Did you have that? Yeah, of course. You did? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I looked at stuff. Just like stacked and organized. Did you have a little microscope? Did you have that? Yeah, of course. You did. I mean, I looked at stuff under the microscope all the time. No, I didn't have. Did you? Did you have a microscope? You had a microscope?

I loved it, yeah. Justin's a nerd. I am a nerd. I'm an undercover nerd. I mean, according to Katrina, we all are, supposedly. You know what I'm saying? But I don't feel like. She says we're all nerds.

Yeah, she tries to say I am, but I'm like, come on. Are you serious? Definitely not. What did she say you're a nerd about? Yeah, I don't know. I don't even know what she says. Just in general. It's like you're a nerd. Dude, she definitely will say that with fitness, right?

She definitely will. So you nerd out. Yeah, yeah. Because like that, and what I can get that way, like with a fan, which I guarantee you guys are the same way too. Like I can't be in the same room with a family member and they just make like a blanket statement

about something that is like so off or not true. That have to and I can't just be like wrong, you know, I don't do it like you're wrong, you know, I let me explain. Yeah, let me explain. I just recently had this with my sister-in-law who was who she also battles with psoriasis and you know, trying to talk to her about it being an autoimmune and that there's definitely something in your diet that you're eating and it could be multiple things and try and explain how that happens. Like I can't just surface all. You know what, so Doug pulled up the definition of nerd.

They changed that. You know why they changed that? Because nerds made the internet. Yeah, exactly, yeah. A person who's extremely enthusiastic. Nerds are in power now. That sounds awesome. This is, according to the internet.

It used to be a slide. Yeah, according to the nerds, right? A nerd is a person who's extremely enthusiastic and knowledgeable about a particular subject. No, that's not a nerd. Okay, so here's another definition here. Is seen as an overly intellectual, obsessive, introverted, or lacking social skills.

Yeah, that's the classic. That's the classic definition. I was gonna say, that's more of what you would say. Zorky weirdo. There's a slide. Yeah, when you were a kid, if you called someone a nerd, it was a slide, it was not a positive. But there was a point where,

and probably the internet was it, the internet decided to make it into a group. Bro, it's when nerds became billionaires is what happened. Yeah, yeah. I wanna be a nerd. I wanna be a nerd like that guy. Tiger shit to jocks. But you had a microscope too, huh?

That's interesting. Yeah, dude. I had a chemistry set. You did too? Oh yeah, I was into it. Oh, I'm the least man for sure. But you had a microscope too, huh? That's interesting. I had a chemistry set. You did too? Yeah, I was into it. Oh, I'm the least man. Magnifying glasses. I had a magnifying glass. I need some burnt ants.

I did that shit, OK? That's normal, I feel like. So do you guys all remember at what age were you were when you asked for one or got one? Oh, I was young. Yeah, I was probably nine, eight, nine. Something like that. Probably the same age, right?

And do you remember the first thing that you even looked under? Like, do you remember anything? My hand, and then I put my bleeds. Probably a booger or something. A booger. I did gross stuff, dude. I swear, dude.

Yeah, I'd actually, I had this like, ant colony, you know, the farm where you'd watch them build stuff and everything, and my favorite thing was to see what they would eat. You know, so I would just put his gross stuff in there. Hot dogs. All kinds of stuff. But the best too is like the gladiators.

Like I would pit them against, you know, different types of insects and throw them in there. Wow. Oh yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, it was great. What would happen? So you put them in and they just go to fight?

Yeah, like someone would give a fight. Like especially like some spiders would fight a few off, but then like everybody gang up on them, rip their legs off. and they get this amazing. Wow. Did I tell you guys that I walked into my, okay, you guys, have you been in my house yet? You've been in my house yet?

You know the grand room that we have? Yeah. I walked in there, and the other day, and it's sunny outside, right? And I looked at the table, we have this like nice dining room table in there, and a little bit of smoke was coming out of the middle of the table.

What? Oh, from like the glass? Bro. I'm like. That happened to Justin. Dude. Remember that happened to Justin? I had a jug of water, a clear jug of water on the table.

The light came in, hit the jug of water, it focused the light, and was starting a fire, dude. Intensified that light. Could you imagine we were out of town? That happened to Justin, remember at his house. Yeah. Remind me of what it was going through? It was yeah, I was going through a window and then it was like some other

yeah, I don't remember some kind of decorative piece that it went through that and then it just focused that light and it started like smoking all kind of billowing smoke. Yeah, I Think you even had a video chair. You videoed it. I remember I remember seeing that being like I wonder how many times that's like happened where it's caused a fire somewhere Oh, yeah, that's crazy. Just if you just put like lacquer on the chair That's crazy. I saw I closed all the grapes now, you know, I'm like what's going on here? That's funny When I first saw the smoke, I was so confused I'm like am I seeing things I walk over over and I see there's like a little dark spot on the table from the sunlight coming in.

Oh, that's so wild. Yeah, that's not cool. That's so wild. Yeah, I got a scary study for you guys. Let's hear it. You guys want to hear it? Okay. Do we want to?

Well, I gotta tell you guys, we need to know this. We need to know this? No, we actually need to know this. Okay, let's hear it. Okay. It's going crazy, this study. So I'll read to you, Max Lugavere posted about it and I looked up the study, it sucks.

A new study found that living close to a golf course more than doubles the risk of being diagnosed with Parkinson's. What? Is it because all the stuff they spray to keep the grass all? Pesticides. The pesticide runoff. Oh, damn.

That they think get into the water and stuff, dude. No. Yes, the reason why I'm telling you guys, we have a place up in Truckee's on a golf course. Yeah, well, I mean, it's not our main residence, thankfully. No, dude, but we need to like. Well, we have a pure, we have a water purification system.

Yeah, dude, but I'm wondering if we should even put filter through the whole, for the water that we wash ourselves and stuff with. Yeah, they use a lot of chemicals to keep it looking good yeah dude doubles think about that doubles that's a big increase in risk that is I know there's some crazy if you live anywhere in proximity to an airport it's horrific oh is it really the dust the brakes and the jet fuel and that just blankets all over your house.

Well what's crazy is they had these huge lawsuits against, I think it was Monsanto, because farmers and people that lived near where they had, you know, like farms, right? Like if you go like down to Salinas or whatever, you see all these farms, their cancer rates, a specific type of cancers were like through the roof. Wow. And there was this huge lawsuit trying to, now we know that the exposure to glyphosate like that can increase your risk of cancer.

That was a big battle for a while. Because Monsanto was like, nah. I'm still waiting for that, for MAS landing, like what's gonna happen with those batteries that caught on fire and just billowed everywhere. It sure felt like it was kind of brushed under. Oh yeah, let's forget it. Because guess what, who investigated it?

The company. There's no regulation agency that comes in, investigates, the company investigates themselves. Don't you wish you could investigate yourself for stuff like that? Dude, what a freak joke. I wish the IRS came and took care of it. I'll run on it.

I'll audit myself. Massive environmental accident and oh yeah, we'll just look into it. That'd be great, IRS is like hey Adam, I want you to look at your tax again and make sure they're all right and you come back. Actually you guys owe me more money, oh okay. Yeah.

He investigated his own. I mean it's right here in the paper. Yeah. I know. Speaking of Parkinson's and stuff like that, dude, do you guys wanna hear something crazy about nicotine? That's a new tropic.

Well, it's got benefits for Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. I think you've shared that before. Yeah, dude, I found the studies, and it actually reduces the risk of both of them considerably. Wow. You know what else reduces the risk? Is there any truth to reducing the risk of COVID? Yes.

Because that was a conspiratorial thing back in the day. It blocks the receptor involved with the infection that it blocks. So what they found with these studies were that smokers not even they're not even using nicotine in like a healthy way like a lozenge or whatever. They're smoking it. They have lower rates of Alzheimer's and they connected it to the nicotine. Isn't that wild? You know what else reduces both Alzheimer's and Parkinson's? Another chemical that we use often is caffeine. So caffeine and nicotine. Yeah, which go together.

Which do go together. Isn't that the classic combination? Yeah. That's like youth creatives. Now it can't be more positive than the negative cancer effects from cigarettes. No. Yeah, I know, right?

The smoking part, yeah. Trade Parkinson's for cancer. But nicotine on its own is for the brain healthy. Well, I remember addictive though. Everybody I remember. I remember when that I mean it's it's really popular right now. Those those little what are they? Zen is Zen is the brand or what about that? You see all the kids running around with the health and fitness pace was promoting it and talking about it for a while became like a

really popular. It's a mental stimulant. It will improve your mental performance, blah blah blah. It's also very addictive though. So you use them regularly and you just have added, like I'm already so addicted to caffeine, adding that one would also suck, trying to take that one away as well. Come off of that also.

Caffeine sucks coming off. I wonder what nicotine's like coming off. Probably worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did anybody here, didn't you? You were never nicotine addicted. No. No, no sucks coming off. I wonder what nicotine's like coming off. Probably worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did anybody here, didn't you? You were never nicotine addicted. No, no, no, not really.

That one never got me. Not really. No, I went through a phase where I smoked cigarettes for a brief moment, but it was like more social. Did you have smokers in your family? Yeah, oh yeah, my mom has been, most of my life she was. She's been, she's been, actually hasn't been, I mean, she probably went through a kick

in the last 10 years again. Yeah, and my sister did too, Cassie did for a while. Yeah, Cassie did, like just out of high school, and I have to ask her at what point she stopped. She hasn't for a long time. But yeah, she went through a small period. My sister, who else in my family? My grandmother.

I was shocked when I went to Italy as a 12 year old kid. Everybody does. I mean at the dinner table. Yeah, yeah it's like a. Watching TV. It's like part of their three hour eating event. It was so common when you're in Europe to see someone like.

In between meals. Yeah, sit down at the restaurant and eat and then have a cigarette and coffee and just like be like a big long event. My cousins were delivered because because so, my age, right, they were delivered in Italy, they were born there, and their mom was like, oh yeah, the doctor was delivering the baby,

put his cigarette down to get the baby out. So in the delivery room. Pills. Could you imagine flying and like, when did we ban it at the late 70s I know when they because it used to be ashtray ashtrays in the I don't know cuz I I used to work in a restaurant I'm pretty sure there was a section a smoking section still when I was oh, yeah It's even in the 90s had a yeah, even in the 90s. I thought was like, you know, oh wow

And could you imagine a like an eight-hour plus flight and like multiple people to Japan. I remember just smelling like ugh. And it was just like horrible. Yeah, could you imagine like an eight hour plus flight and like multiple people are smoking in a plane? I would just smoke at that point. And it's just a curtain. Of course you would. It's that price you just said. I might as well smoke and do it myself instead of just breathing in your.

I think you would. I think 100% you would. That's crazy. Do you know that early exercise equipment, some of them had ashtrays? Shut up. No they didn't. I saw them in Italy.

No way, let me see one. I saw them in Italy. No way, let me see one. I saw them in Italy, bro. I don't believe that. That's amazing. I went back to, I was 19, went back to Sicily, my cousin took me to the gym. An ashtray built into the. The treadmills had an ashtray on them.

That's a great set. I kinda want one, that's gotta crew. It's like a cool antique, you know what I'm saying? Like an ashtray on your, that's funny. You just ran out of evidence. You gotta show me that. Yeah. You know, Ann sent me this,

I don't know if this is true, this article or thing, maybe Doug can research it after that and look it up. It said that in five years, they predict that a fit body will be more rare than a Rolex. Five years? In five years, that it'll be more rare to see a fit body than to see a Rolex.

That's the ultimate flex, huh? I guess. I had not, I don't know where that came from, but, and I don't know how much truth is to it. She sent it to me and I was just reading it literally right before we came on the podcast and went, that's interesting. That's wild.

I wonder how true that is. Well, I know the millionaire abs thing, right? It's more, there's more millionaires than there are people with actual six pack abs. Which I think most people would think that's wild, right? You would think that's crazy because literally anybody can obtain abs. Six pack abs are super rare.

If you're on social media, you think they're all over the place. They're hella rare. They're rare in the gym. But people who work out, very few people have six pack abs. It's not like a, you know, it's not a byproduct of being super fit.

It's not worth it. No, usually. How much happiness is it gonna bring you? Nothing. It's not gonna, it just is. It just is like gonna bring you? Nothing. It's not gonna, Justin should have. Justin's like hell. I'm gonna be the anti-cis fan guy. Dude.

I've had him like twice. I mean we have, let's be honest, we have really skewed the perception of what a healthy fit person is. Or just how much happier you are by being ultra shredded. Yeah. You're actually not happier. I mean how often do you guys have to,

I know Justin doesn't have to, because he doesn't give a shit, but you're a better person to ask, do you have to kind of regularly ask yourself that or challenge your own thinking about that? It's like, okay, I'm beyond fit. Come on. Not just for your age, but in general,

you're so beyond fit. What am I doing? What am I doing? You know, what am I, what am I doing? Oh yeah, that's a day. It's a struggle, bro. Like, yeah, I didn't say, so do you, do you find yourself having, cause I know I have, it's been, it's been this long journey of tug of war of 10 years of like going like, Oh, you know what? Like we were just talking. I mean, the way you open the show is so in line with kind of like what I've been thinking. It was like, man, there's so many areas in my life I can always be improving.

I've been so focused on this lifting weight version and looking a certain way version of me. Like I've invested pretty good in that. Like maybe cruise on that part a little bit and maybe I double down more on the sunlight thing or double down on the stretching thing. And like, I mean, are you constantly having to have that conversation?

It's a lot better now. I've definitely needed supernatural intervention, lots of prayer. It's actually for the first time in my life really, you know, I'm starting to get into it. It sucks though, because it sucks because it's like, it's breaking down this like idol that I've identified for so long.

So I work out way less now, but it's just because, it's just making it even more revealing of this kind of attachment that I've identified for so long. So I work out way less now, but it's just making it even more revealing of this kind of attachment that I have. You know what saved my life this whole time is training people. Otherwise I would have gone way off the deep end. Sure, sure, because you can see, obviously, you see yourself in people.

Well I'm preaching, I care about, you're my client, I really do care about you. And so I could tell you the right things to do, and then if I do that enough times, which was all day long when I was training clients, I'd start to hear my own self. That finger will turn back. Yeah, yeah.

What is that one, like when one finger's pointing, three fingers are pointing back at you. Three fingers are pointing back at you, whatever. So that was. Now, are you at a place in this, because you've been on this journey now for a little while, are you able to clearly see the benefits to that? Like you're attaching, like, okay, look,

because I mean, just like we give advice to clients, right? As to help them move away from the scale or the mirror of looking a certain way is showing them like, hey, but this part of your life, look how much, are you aware of those things? Are there things that are unfolding for you? Like, oh, the most recent thing I've really connected is, I do now this or that.

Right now it's surface stuff like better sleep and you know I feel better, I have more energy because I'm not beating myself up as much. And I'm also getting a lot of like this like these gifts, these gifts of grace where I'm getting compliments on how I look even though I know I have a little less muscle, I'm less like whatever. So I'm like I know why you know, okay thanks God you're trying to show me that you know I'm a little less muscle. I'm less like whatever. Yeah, so I'm like, I know why you know, okay Thanks god, you're trying to show me that you're still doing okay. Yeah, but it's it's just gonna get deeper and deeper I know I'm at the beginning of it. I'm acknowledging right right now. Like this is still Working progress. Yeah, but I mean I feel like you've had great momentum. I haven't felt like you've had Is there anything currently right now within that that you're like?

targeting on fixing or working on? I'm still trying to make the leap to do something athletic that's not lifting weights. It's still a big... I'm waiting for you. Yeah, dude. I know you are. I mean, that's got to be really difficult considering that's not even like a natural appeal to you. No. So that's really, that's got to be, I could imagine...

Super difficult. Yeah, I can imagine how difficult it is. Yeah, I haven't made it yet. So that's like, that's gotta be, I could imagine. Super difficult. Yeah, I can imagine how difficult it is. Yeah, and I haven't made it yet, so that's like, I'm trying to get myself motivated to do that, but it's, you know, that's what I'm doing. Be great, you join like a basketball league or something like that. Yo. Like what? What is this, dude? Sal cadunk. So I could, yeah. So I could see you guys make fun of me. Hey, speaking of like craziest, did we talk about,

on the show, you had the Liver King documentary? Did we go through it? No, no, no. did you actually finally watch it? I watched a lot of it. I was waiting for one of you guys to watch it. Dude, that guy is... He's not a good person. No. He's not a good person.

I'm glad he didn't come on the show. There's some issues there, dude. There's some big issues there. Oh my God, there's... Like he's definitely, I don't think he knows how to be authentic to himself, let alone to anybody else. It's like this persona. He's like, it's almost like an actor

being the role all the time. It's almost like, I don't know, you guys know, I've seen comedians where this is how, like you're Larry the Cable Guy, or even what's his name, Andrew Dice Clay, becomes a persona, and then you literally around and like that's your persona now That's how you are now. Yeah an identity and like I just don't think he's he has there's no contrast now with who he really is Well, you remember how?

Not to I won't throw the person's name You guys will know though right away early on we interviewed somebody who was big in the fitness space and we were so annoyed By the way, he was talking to us. He couldn't turn it off. Yeah, yeah, like off camera. We weren't even recording and it was like, I felt like we were on his YouTube channel. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Performative, everything was performative. Yes, it's like, yo bro, it's just me. There's a four of us in here, right? You don't need to do that right now. That would have drove me crazy at the point we're at now. Like that same person were to be interviewed by us now, I would just call it out. Where I would have a really hard time letting

the liver king sit in our studio with his shirt off. I would have just, you know he's done every interview. He does every interview like that. It would have just drove me crazy. Like bro, calm the fuck down. Part of the story I think is giving him a lot of strength and energy because I do think he cares I don't know the guy okay so just based off this documentary yeah it does appear that he

cares about his family and his kids yeah and his two sons were really sick sounded like a lot of autoimmune issues yeah and going on a quote-unquote ancestral diet which was high end so I don't believe that. You think, you don't think so? I think it's all, I think it's bullshit. You think it's even more. So, and the reason why I believe that, if you watch the. I mean, I wouldn't be a hard stretch.

If you listen to the company that he hired, the marketing team, did you see that person? They continue to, and he brings up, he even brings up not believing that, because they manufactured a lot of that story. That's his story. This is his story. Get that viral. Yes. And so he's like, I don't even know what to believe because he lied to us about the steroid thing. He's like, so I mean, how much of his kid thing was truth? I mean, I don't see any video or documentation of anything serious that was

going on with them. So I don't, I don't believe any of it and then you I don't Think you made it that far in the documentary either to hear he did open up and share towards the end That he's been like this scammer since he was like a kid And he's just continued to get away with these scams and they just kept getting they kept escalating Yeah, so I really think that's what he's an example of. Yeah Yeah, I mean he told a story of how, and I just, to me this just shows what kind of character you are.

When he was working for GNC, I think it was teens or early 20s, back then, I don't know if GNC still does this or not, but if you brought back a bottle of creatine half used and said, oh this is, I'm breaking out or making my digestion. Whatever reason. Whatever reason. They would take it back,

they would take the bottle back and refund you right away. And he figured that out while he was working at GNC. And so he would collect all these bottles and he would use the receipt paper from GNC. Then he'd go over to other GNCs and collect money from these. And so he was running, and he was running a massive scam like that for a long time.

So and then. No moral conviction. Yeah, yeah. Like that didn't bother him at all. It just escalated and then he did something else after. I don't remember what the next big scam he did. But I think the liver king, the persona, the character, it was just, was built.

I think he's. Because he built it with the intent of, I want to get a million followers, I want to have a bunch of people. And the timing was right too because right around when he started to blow up there was so much negative messaging on masculinity and being a man and blah blah blah. And the vegan thing was so hot. It was a perfect counter message.

Yeah, and so now you've got this guy who's like masculine and primal and you know eat like an animal. Definitely a timing thing. And so you had a lot of dudes that were lost and identified, and there's some truth to what he says, but a lot of it's not true. So the timing was, and he just became a character. Just read Mark Sisson's book if you want, the actual, what he was banking most of his knowledge off of.

That's right, that's right, that's what it was. Yeah, so I don't, I'm not a, was never a fan, we were never a fan of him. He's been trying to come on the show for years, well before all the stuff came out. We almost did after the stuff came out, just for the, were never a fan of him. He's been trying to come on the show for years well before all the stuff came out. We almost did after the stuff came out just for the, in the end. There's a part of me that'd be interested to pry into that and see if we could get more honesty out of him. But you could tell he struggles with being honest. There's no way. Yeah. He just would

put on this big show facade and you wouldn't be able to break through. Come in here with his big animals. Yeah, I did. Like no shirt on.. Bring some big ass organ meat like a bunch of like your day. Eat. No, thanks. I mean, you could see it to in the in the documentary. You can see, you know, they it's a documentary. And so obviously, they staged scenes with his kids and so that and you could see his own kids that they couldn't even keep a straight face like while he's, you know, talking to them like, All right,. Like while he's, you know, talking to them like,

all right kids, and now let's, you know, let's say thank you to this animal that we just slayed. Oh God. It's just so over the top, man. Oh, so. And to keep that up is just. Cringe, bro. So cringe.

It's a prison for him. You create a prison for him. Wow, that's a great way to put it. No, it's a, you're a. Torturous prison. You're 100%. 100%. Because he's making money, he's getting fame,

it's supporting his family. How do you back out of that? So that was the biggest thing that resonated for me for watching that is what we talked about. And one of the worst things that could have ever happened to us was when we switched over to somebody else helping steer our content, would have been having massive success. I mean, that was the big takeaway for me

is watching someone like that, who, cause he, he. What a blessing that it didn't work. No, that was the big thing, right? So he talks about, or the marketing guy, this is the marketing guy who he hired, talks about how he struggled with like, some of the messaging and things that they wanted him

to do and say because it was out of character. But they're like, this is the stuff that'll go viral. We gotta do these things. And he would do like 100 takes to say a- Make one reel. To make one 30 second reel. But then one of them hit. And then a light bulb-

And it just clicks. Yeah, a light bulb went off like, oh, this is what people want. This is what I need to do. And so then he leaned into that. And the more he leaned into it, the more viral he would go. And then that escalates, because the same thing that made you go viral is no longer viral,

or doesn't make you go viral anymore, so you have to go to the next level, next level. And then you're making millions of dollars. Now all of a sudden, you're sucked into, I'm pretending to be this thing that I'm really not. That would be a total prison. It'd be horrible. And so I think back to, you know,

and I think our original intentions were rooted in a good thing of, hey, trying to help the business, like this thing, this provides an income for a lot of families, you know, it's not just the four of us talking on this podcast. And so like, man, keeping the business at least maintaining or growing is- The trick that happens, the game that happens is you have your straight path,

which is this is authentic, this is real, and you can veer off of it a little bit and be like well it's still helping people, we're still giving a good message, we're still telling the truth, but now that you're off the straight path a little bit and if that starts to work, you keep going down that path and it moves further and further and further away.

And then you're in this place where you're like, how do I get back? How do I get back? You can't. You can't, and then imagine, you elevate your lifestyle. Except for dumping everything. You buy the huge ranch and all the toys, and all of a sudden you have this incredible.

You're still getting rewarded for it. Yeah, crazy overhead and income, right? And then you look back and you're like, I'm so far from that original guy or that original message that I had. And so yeah, no, it's a total prison, Justin. And I think that that would be the worst part about it. That was a big takeaway I took from that was,

wow, what a cool. How blessed we were. Yeah, because. That didn't work. Yeah, I mean, I admitted to you that. Man, it would have been difficult if we were seeing really, really positive things in the business, even though we were like,

ah, about the content, we're like, ah, this is like, because at first it wasn't bad, it was like, oh, this is helpful, oh, this is cool, this is like, what, we have to do that again? Yeah. We have to do that again? Really, we already addressed this. I had a conversation with Justin at our Christmas party where him and him were looking at each other,

I'm like, bro, this sucks, and him and him were, we got to stop this. Yeah, this does not feel like Yeah, but it would have been an argument there would have been a big argument a fight and a debate and I don't know man, I think it would have been hard to it would have been hard to argue against the affirmations of success or Downloads or whatever. Yeah, that's why I think a lot of this young generation that wants, and I say young generation because I don't think this is different to other generations. It's just that it's different the way it manifests, right?

Now it manifests in this Instagram fame or YouTube fame and it's like the number one thing that kids want. And as parents, I feel like it's so important that we communicate and help these kids understand that it's probably not what you think you want it, but I don't think you do, because it can turn into this massive prison for sure. Totally. I gotta tell you guys, we got a message from a trainer

who's opening a studio, and they were asking, the question was, what kind of equipment should I put in my studio? Of course, I said PRX for the squat racks and I thought man, I can't think of a more Forget about the fact that PRX squat racks fold in the wall They give you a lot of space right so you could put in your garage now you can park your car or whatever They're the most stable squat racks. Yeah, they're the best squat racks for stability. They're solid. Solid, solid. They're more solid than commercial gym squat racks. And they have the full cage option too now, which is huge.

Yeah, dude. I always think when I had my studio, I would have loved that because there were moments where I could have folded it in, had extra space, bring it back out. Stable. Like the most stable because of the staker. Like floor space is like such a valuable commodity to use a gym owner and to be able to adjust that and Have like more of a class setting in there or have like a presentation. Oh, it's a no-brainer. It's like no-brainer Yeah, no you bring it up the the gyms and in private studios. I actually had a stat that I had saved I read this that was interesting gyms and studios to grow

134 percent top 237 to top $237 billion. Brick and mortar fitness is booming with global gym and studio revenue projected to reach 237 billion by 2034. Look at that. Wow. This is great.

This is really great. I think the future, I'll say it here right now on this podcast, if you look at the gym industry, what's happened is the kind of mid-range big box gym has kind of disappeared and you're either going to do the low-cost, high-volume, planet fitness model or you're going to have the high-end gym with the steam room, the sauna, the towels, much more expensive. Those are the ones that are thriving, but I think that there's another type of gym here

that I think could crush, which is a trainer-led gym. A gym where it's about results. Results gym. Yes, where it's the training staff and team that run the facility. And people still work out in there, but it's high touch, high service, high value community. I think that would crush, if people do that right, it would crush. I think what you are watching us kind of build right now, and not with, I mean we did not start. That wasn't the intention. It wasn't the intention whatsoever, but what I'm seeing unfold as we're going through this

process right now is what I think the future is gonna look like. Now, obviously, not every trainer is going to reach the size of a mind-bump podcast, but I definitely think that you can build a pretty large internet following and community through helping people online, whether through a podcast, YouTube channel, social media. And I think that paired with a private type of in studio

where you live is like the ultimate business for it. Like imagine though, knowing that you guys know now about what we're building towards and we didn't have all the other things, like how fun, how easy, how cool of a business it would be just for the four of us to be running this small little studio. I mean, if we were still training people,

like that would be very viable business right now. I think it's very possible, especially in bigger cities, to have a 15 to 25,000 square foot gym with a training staff that's, let's say, 20 trainers, but those 20 trainers crush, and the majority of the revenue comes from the trainers. I think that those gyms can produce deep six figures a month, be highly profitable,

and have incredible long lasting success because people won't leave. But I think what would require is a incredibly proficient and good training staff. One that really does, if you do that, like think of the training teams that we've managed in the past that were just killers. Imagine if you took them, increased their pay responsibility

and made a gym focused on them. The potential for that I think would be huge. Well and imagine you give them now the power of the internet and social media to compliment that also. So now they're not just fishing out of their small community. They're not confined. Yeah, they're not confined to just that.

They have the ability to reach outside of that. And I do think that this is the future, this kind of hybrid online, in-person gyms. There's a real career there. Trainer-led gyms. Yeah. Completely different than a small studio. Speaking of trainers, Doug, is this gonna air

before our webinar? Can I talk about it? Okay, so trainerwebinar.com if you're a trainer or coach and you wanna learn how to sell training. I'm gonna teach you how to sell training. It's free. Go to trainerwebinar.com, sign up. And we have the, they're already live,

both on the YouTube channel and the podcast. We did the three episodes. So if you're a trainer and you haven't listened to those, those were specifically geared to, do we title them anything different or they just have it? It's a three-part series. Each one. Does it say like part of a three-part or trainer on it? Does it? Yeah, it does. Okay. So it's like, so it was a three-part that went up last week, right? From when this is airing. So you still go back and listen to those, listen to those three and then they, and then the webinar for sure. So you still go back and listen to those, listen to those three and then the webinar for sure.

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Hello. Hey, how's it going? We're good, how can we help you? Good. First, I just wanted to start by saying thank you so much for everything you guys do. I listen to your podcast every day. I feel like I've learned so much from it.

So thank you for that. Awesome. So my question, I am a 31, almost 32 next month, year old mother of two, young kids, eight and five, former four sport high school athlete and a former college soccer player. Recently for the past year, I've started playing soccer again in an adult co-ed league. And I've realized that playing against these younger kids, some of them are still in college or just graduated. And there's guys playing in this league.

I've realized I've kind of lost a step in my older age now. And it's a pretty competitive league. We play about once a week. And I just want to know what I can do to improve my speed and agility. I feel like sometimes my legs are just real heavy while I'm playing. I don't know if that's just because I am a little older now or my cardio is just not as good as it was back when I was in college. Currently I am doing MAPS 15 performance and I'm adding about 15 minutes of either cardio or sports

practice on top of that. And I just wanted to know what you guys think, uh, what program I should be running to improve my speed and agility. Oh, you actually, that's a pretty good one. Besides advanced. How, how long was it? Uh, cause you, so how long was it that you stopped playing soccer, uh, regularly before you started this league? So it's been probably about 10 years. Okay. That's why you feel the way you do, by the way. It's not your age. You're still pretty young. You get removed from it.

You just, yeah, you're just out of practice. You haven't practiced for a while. There's a lot of memory there. You were at a high level, so you obviously know quite a bit. Your skills are probably still there. you were at a high level, so you know, you obviously know quite a bit. You know how to feel. Your skills are probably still there. Yeah, but it's been a long time. The best way to get back to what you were doing before is to play more soccer. So, with your workout, you're doing great,

and I love the 15 minutes after. It's perfect, yeah. I think focus all your additional time on the drills you remember when you were in college, dribbling the ball, hitting the net, you know, practicing the game is what's gonna get you there the fastest. It's not gonna be an additional workout. 100% to piggyback on that too,

the really assessing where you have sticking points in terms of you feel stiff or you feel a little less mobile. Being away from that type of like really dynamic, you know, fast twitch movement exposes a lot of, you know, some of the previous patterns, like even the, you know, the day to day stuff that you just kind of form into. And so to really open you up a bit more and really focus in, you know, on the mobility side is going to do wonders for promoting that type of explosive movement.

Do you live close to like a soccer field or a place where you can go do like drills out on the grass or anything? I do, I live right next to the college I went to. So the turf field's maybe half a mile away. It's not that far. Yeah, I mean, I could see adding a day or two in there of like sport specific conditioning on the grass that would benefit you. So if you know, you got a couple days

where you can go over there in addition to you put because you're already playing once a week, you already doing the right program. It sounds like you have a good balance with it. If you could squeeze out another day or two when you go out to the field and spend a good, you know, 30 minutes or so doing some drills, like sports specific drills on the grass, that'll translate well into the conditioning. If you feel strong and stable in your joints and you add in more endurance,

so you have that kind of gas tank you used to have, you'll definitely feel like you're back. One of the mistakes that athletes will make, whether they play competitively before or even while they're being competitive, is that they use workouts to improve their ability to play their sport. Now there definitely is a value to using workouts,

but that has to be a value that you can't find or necessarily get or target from playing your sport. But what you're expressing is that agility, the quickness, I lost the step. Whenever I hear an athlete say, I lost the step, what that kind of means is a little bit of agility, speed and timing. You're going to get that from practicing. So in a perfect world, if you were my client, I would tell you to join another league that

is low level, not like as competitive as the one you're playing, but one that is more recreational, that allows you to go play one or two more days a week, that'll get you there faster than anything that you're gonna do drill-wise or workout-wise. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, but as far as workout is concerned, that's perfect.

MAPS 15 performance is perfect with going out and playing hard, playing a sport in a challenging way. Any more than that, it would be too much. Do you have the advanced version too, or just the 15? 15 performance. We have the advanced version. Yeah, just the 15 performance. Yeah, I've been doing the advanced version.

Perfect, that's absolutely perfect. Yep, that's it. And then from a diet perspective, are you doing anything diet-wise to help? My maintenance calories are probably around 2,800 right now. Hitting 170 grams of protein a day at least. Mostly whole natural foods, little bit of sprinkling some bad stuff in there,

but mostly pretty good. Good, good, and then is your body weight close to what it was when you were playing in college? I'm probably about 10 pounds heavier than I was then. I like to think that it's muscle, but there's probably a little bit of fat in there too. Well, even if it is muscle, you coming down and weight a little bit would also give you

that feeling of like, yeah. That's right, you'd be lying on your feet. Yeah, you could, you're- Keep that in mind. Your body awareness is different, right? So if I took you back when you were in college and magically added 10 pounds on you, even if it was muscle,

you would be off, your timing would be off. It's a different body. Okay. So another thing that would help would be coming down a body weight. But to be quite honest with you, I think if you just add extra planning time and eat healthy, that'll start to naturally happen.

Okay. That's it. I like it. Yeah. You're doing good. Thanks. Uh, can I ask one other quick question associated with that? Of course.

Uh, so for the cardio that I've been doing, I've kind of been mixing in either a one or two mile run or some like sprint intervals. Um, you think either of those would be preferable to the other? Probably the sprints. I mean, you know what soccer's like, even though there's, there's moments in soccer where you have like sustained running like that too. So I don't think, I don't think either one's bad. I think actually getting good at both. This is like, for example, if I could get you to do one or two days, like if you can't join a league like Sal's saying,

because I think that's the easiest way to go get that, then I would do drills on the field. Those are the type of drills. I would do a little bit of a moderate run, like a mile run. Then I would do shuttle drills. I would do sprints. I would do pedal backwards, karaoke's, liners. I mean, I'm going to do all the conditioning stuff out on that field, and so you do both, right? It's not one or the other, it's all of it. Specificity wins every single time. So if you're on the grass and you're cutting

and you're adapting to that, you're gonna do much better than you are just aimlessly running for two miles. Yeah, soccer is like, it's sprinting interrupted by like running. It's constant running and stopping. Yeah so your rest is a run. You need to match and emulate that as much as possible. That's right. Okay yeah that sounds great. Awesome. Alright thanks for calling in. Yeah thank you so much. You got it. Yeah if you stop practice you stop a skill for that long,

you're gonna, it's gonna feel awkward. And to your point about the body is like, even if, even if she's in better shape, because she has more muscle on her body, 10 more pounds on a body. Totally. I mean, this has been, I feel like my problem with wanting to get back in basketball is I had that big long gap of not playing and I got more jacked. Like I look better that today than I did when I played basketball, but I'm carrying 25, 30 more pounds, even though it's mostly muscle. It's, it's completely changed. And you're really strong in different directions. Yes. Which matters. You know, when you, when you go to test that on the basketball court, it doesn't have

the same effect. Totally. Yeah, and weight, you know, they say there's good weight. Well, weight is only good if your strength is higher than the weight. You have a better strength to weight ratio. So when you're trying to change directions and you're 10 pounds heavier, that's a lot to matter. Well, and to Justin's point, you know, if you got 10 pounds of muscle that's a lot to matter. Well, and to Justin's point, if you got 10 pounds of muscle

from lifting a barbell versus cutting left or right, that's 10 different types, 10 pounds different, right? If I got 10 pounds of muscle built on me from doing sprints and cuts and moves, like, and that is so applicable to the field versus I got 10 pounds of muscle on me from lifting a barbell, like it's just not gonna translate. It doesn't, but also like you wanna know what the ideal soccer player looks like. Look at professional soccer players. What do they typically look like?

They're lean. They're not big. They're typically smaller, they're not big. And that's because- Big legs, but lean. At some point, muscle is even a detriment in that sport. Our next caller is Brandon from Utah. What's up, dude?

How you doing man? Hey guys, how you doing? Man. How can we help you? Huge fan. Started listening to your stuff like two years ago. Listen to every episode since then. Uh, you guys are amazing.

The fitness part, the dad part, the Christianity part. I love it all. So thank you. You got it. Cool. Okay. So I'm part, I love it all. So thank you. You got it. Okay, so I'm 40. I'm a dad, I've got four kids. Do my best with them. I'm pretty present, so take that into account.

I'm not neglecting them, but I wanna do two a days and become like a killer hybrid athlete. And I know you recently did a podcast. This is my home gym. I have a pretty good setup. And I recently did anabolic, which was my first program from you guys, which I absolutely loved. And I just did phase one of aesthetic. So I'm going to start phase two today.

Anyway, oh, a few other numbers. My testosterone is 800. I have like high free. I did just start two months ago CJC epimerelin through doctor. So I've been doing that for two months. Yeah. So my main question is how do I incorporate cardio in an effective way while still following your programs, which I love and how this is related or maybe

even more important for me, how do I time carb intakes intake and, and know how much I need to eat so I'm utilizing carbs instead of whatever else to fuel that type of training. Okay, good question. Let me ask too, the desired outcome, I know you kind of just said like this hybrid athlete, but are you planning on playing a sport? Or you just want to be in great cardiovascular shape?

Like, do you have a specific thing you want to use it for? It's really just to be in great shape I mean, I think it'd be fun to do some high rocks competitions But I'm not trying to do that like for you know a career or anything like that Yeah, so it's really just to be in an amazing shape, okay, okay, and then time how much time are you two a day? Okay for people this that's two workouts a day. How much time are you looking to spend? It's not necessary though. I can do whatever. I can spend as much, I do love it.

So I can do as much or as little as you want me to do. I probably fall into the category of, you would probably say, oh, do less. But I try to, cause I get like 17, 18,000 steps a day, but probably 14,000 of them are just walking on the treadmill while reading or something. it's not like I'm running a lot right now mostly because I've been waiting for this call to to figure out

what I should do yeah so okay so if you want stamina endurance strength the hybrid athlete type of deal you want to do minimal strength training aesthetics not the right program aesthetic is way too much volume for that goal. It would be very hard to add any stamina, endurance building to aesthetic because you're gonna likely, or you're just doing too much. You might not over train,

you might have this ridiculous, crazy genetics, but you'll definitely be doing more than is what's considered optimal. So the strength training would look more like maps anabolic or maps 15 and then the second workout of the day would be more geared towards your endurance to stamina which would be a combination of things like a sprint day which would be like a 20-minute you know combined total of workouts with mobility and then you know other days would be more of a longer you know style run maybe three or four miles. A lot of your time should be

spent on mobility. So I was good. Well just I'm just I think you and I think you would agree then I would recommend performance and then just add the cardio to that. Oh there you go. So it's already got the mobility built in for him he's already doing things that are gonna be multi-directional so he's gonna get the benefits from that then really it's just like you're like you're starting to allude to is you have your, your mobility days and then just tack on some of your conditioning training. So you would tell you go mobility and then you tack on, you know,

one day's hill sprints. Then the other time you do mobility, it would be something like a more, a longer run. Like you just break, you would just every, every mobility. So you have your three days a week of training training which could technically go down to two if you needed it to depending on how taxed you are but three days a week of strength training and then your two to three days of mobility work with conditioning that's what it would look like yeah and you get I tell you what have you mixed that conditioning up with long runs with short sprints hill runs, with types of footwork drills,

you're gonna get in pretty bad ass shape. Now what I'm gonna say is super important with this, Brandon. So it's very, very important to pay attention about to say, when you're doing this, do not try to get stronger and improve endurance at the same time. It's one or the other. So one of those modes of training is gonna be

more of a maintenance style. So let's say you're like, okay, for the next 60 days, I'm going to improve my endurance. Well then what the strength training looks like is moderate intensity and maintenance. Then let's say, all right, the next 60 days, I'm going to try and increase my lifts. Then the stamina style training looks more like maintenance and the strength training is more challenging. If you push both, you're getting neither. Yep.

So if I'm doing performance, so since I've been doing anabolic anesthetics, should I do the next 60, and it's 60, 60, 60, is that a good cadence? Should I have that be more cardiovascular focused since I've already been doing strength? I would do 30, 30, 30. Okay, so we'll send you mass performance so you have it.

I have it, I have it. Okay, so I want you to run maps performance as laid out. And then on the mobility days, you are just gonna tackle on your condition. And then you decide, okay, am I really wanting to get after the cardiovascular side right now or strength training? And whatever that is, take the advice that Sal just said so let's say you go well I you know I really want I haven't done really much

with the cardiovascular side so let's make the first 30 days focus that so you're lifting looks like every time you go in the gym oh I could probably do a little more that that's okay go moderate go you're just you're just you're just trying to hold on to your muscle you're not building muscle right now it's I'm just trying to hang on to what I. You're not building muscle right now. It's, I'm just trying to hang on to what I have. I'm getting really good at the conditioning shit. You do that for 30 days, then you hit the next 30 days and then you flip it.

You go, okay, now I'm gonna kind of just maintain on the cardiovascular side. I'm not gonna go hard on my sprints. I'm not gonna increase my runs. I'm gonna try and maintain my current times and levels, but I'm not really trying to add anything or do more. And then I'm gonna really push the weights. Now I'm gonna stretch trying to add anything or do more. And then I'm going to really push the weights. Now I'm going to stretch myself when it comes to adding more

weight to the bar. That's how you think. Phase four is very, very focused on endurance and building your gas tank and durability. So, you know, in mass performance, phase four, yeah. So, go. So, as you're to their point, like as you're doing the mobility days, you could add in like either separate if you're doing double days, you could do like your sprints and everything later in the day or maybe, you know, combine it with your mobility. But you know, that would be your kind of focus on those days. And then you would run just as it's laid out, like the next days, like more multi-planer focus, but then you can kind of sprinkle in but then your entire dialed focus on endurance like

comes you know already programmed in that phase. Yeah I think think of your progress when you're training this way as a step ladder okay so it would look something like this like okay I'm gonna focus on stamina for the next 30 days I'm gonna push it a little harder and then I'm gonna focus on stamina for the next 30 days. I'm gonna push it a little harder and then I'm gonna maintain that for a week or two and then I'm gonna push it a little harder. Meanwhile, the strength training is just maintaining. And then when you flip, it's the other way around.

If you push both, again, I can't- Heavy strength focus and then kind of shift. Yeah, I can't stress this enough. If you push both, you'll probably get neither. But if you do a good job of doing what we're saying, because mass performance has four phases, by the time you get into phase four, you'll have get neither. But if you do a good job of doing what we're saying, because mass performance has four phases, by the time you get into phase four, you'll have elevated all of it.

You'll be stronger, you'll be faster, you'll have better endurance, so long as you do it like that. If you try and overdo it, that's where injury happens, that's where regression happens, that's where you're going to get in trouble. And then now we've addressed all the training. Now it's like getting in a diet. You just need to make sure you're fueled. With that amount of movement, activity, two hours before your workout, you're getting loaded up with carbohydrates.

A good meal with carbohydrates in it and just staying fueled up like that. On the double days, if you have those double days, make sure after the first workout you do have a post-workout high carbohydrate and protein meal. This is also where EAA is coming to play right now. You're somebody who we rarely you never hear us recommend that to people but you if you're doing this you're the type of person who I would have you know get those key on EAA pills and just take those throughout the day. The key with the carbs is going to be the most important thing with your food sources is ease of digestibility.

What source of carbohydrates cause the feel like I just digest it very well. That's going to be more important than almost anything else. So for a lot of people, that's probably white rice. Okay. And if I'm six, one, almost one 83 and doing two a days in this maps, maps performance combo thing is like 400 grams of carbs. Is that good? Probably. Yeah, probably. I mean, I also want to go back to you. You don't necessarily need to be doing two days though, just so you know, to, to obtain this, like you could literally

do the three days of strength training and then the days that are mobility days. So basically I would make it a six day a week program. And one day is purely strength training, the other day is mobility and skills and endurance stamina stuff. And so you're just flip flopping like that. You don't really need to do double days.

In fact, if I was training you one on one and we were going through this together, I would definitely save the potential double days after I've trained you this way for a while to see how you're doing. After we've raised your base up. Yes. If I see you killing it and you're just getting stronger and faster and you're feeling amazing, then maybe I tap into that on the third month or whatever like that we start, okay, let's add another day of conditioning in there to get you, but I think you're more likely to overdo it right now than to underdo it with what we're talking about.

You know, Brandon, when it comes to double days, there's a lot of confusion around how to do them in a way that's optimal. Most people think double days means adding volume. The real effective way to use a double day is to use your current volume that you do one day when you train during the day and split it up. That's the way to really do a double day.

So what it would look like is I'm following maps, I'm following maps anabolic, and I'm gonna turn it into a double day. Well, how do I do that? Do I double the workout? No, I take the workout and cut it in half. That's how you make a double day effective. Everybody thinks it's like, no, I'm doing twice as much.

No, you're doing the same amount, you're just splitting it up, allowing somebody covering between, that's all. Which you could do that. So if you're like, let's say, you know. It's ideal, actually. Kids are gone all day or something like that and you have the opportunity to get in the gym twice a day. Take your math performance workout and cut it in half.

Focus on half of it in the early way and then half of the other. And then what will happen when you do that is because you're cutting the volume in half, you'll have more strength, more to give to those three exercises versus having six exercises. And then what Sal is saying, most people go, oh, I'll do 12 then. And it's like, no, you're not going to get more that way. It doesn't work that way. So, but if you... Yeah, that's interesting. Well, and I do zero mobility now and I'm not flexible at all. So, I'm sure performance is going to help me a lot.

Yeah, for sure. And keep in mind too, as you're doing your endurance, like, what are you, like, what skill are you trying to really promote with that? Because if you're doing it constantly just for fatigue sake, you know, then that's one thing, but if you're trying to get better at running, it has to be diligent and intentional every single run, especially if you're sprinting, so you get adequate rest, so you come back and you're mapping and you're modeling awesome form

every time you get better in your skill versus the other, which is just, you get a little bit better endurance. Yeah, it's funny, you just, what did you just say? Oh, your mobility and your skill versus the other, which is just, you get a little bit better endurance. Yeah, it's funny, you just, what did you just say, oh, your mobility and your tight, you know what's gonna improve your performance the most is improving that. Yep. Yeah, because you look like someone

who's already in pretty good shape, and what you would note, if I were to improve your mobility right now with a magic wand, you would improve, your performance would dramatically improve, just from that. That's why the program we laid out, the way we laid it out is gonna blow your mind if you listen to us.

If you're stubborn, you don't listen to us and you go do your own thing, then I can't promise anything. Oh, hey, I'm not stubborn. When it comes to you guys, I'm not stubborn. All right, yeah, well then trust us. Follow it like that. I think it's gonna blow your mind.

I think you're gonna have incredible results. In fact, I would love to, by the way, after you do this, you'd be a great person to talk to after it and follow up. So I'd love to. I would love to. I like doing the MRF. Do you think that's a good barometer for this overall health? Because it's the exact same thing every time with the vest. And so I can see kind of my time and how I feel. Not really. Here's why, because you're not practicing the Murph this whole entire time. Even though there's it, it some will translate and I bet you would probably get a little bit better at the Murph for sure. It's not the same. Like

what you're better at, what will you be better off doing is like spend a day of assessing all your things. Your range of motion with like a squat or flexibility, a vertical jump, a one mile time, a shuttle run, like give yourself a series of tests that are like that and then know where your baseline is now and then come back at the end and then measure that. That'll give you a better- There's a way to do it with the Murph

if you want that, if you like it. And the way to do it would be to do it once a week on one of those days and to do it at moderate intensity, and then every once in a while, you test yourself. But what Adam's saying is important, you have to practice it. You don't just not do it and then, okay, I'm gonna test my Murph.

People who do the Murph best, the ones that practice the Murph. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Okay, well yeah, I like that sort of, uh, you know, that fifth grade, you know, was whatever that test was. Yeah. Yeah. No, totally. The presidential test. Like you do something kind of, it sounds generic and lame, but it's like, that'll be a good test because that, that also tests your, if you do like pull ups and some

base shuttle runs awesome. Like, yeah, you do like a 40 yard dash, you know, like let's get some speed in there. Let's get some vertical jump. Like he said, dash, you know, like let's get some speed in there Let's get some vertical jump like he said like, you know Some of those measures for strength as well with your squat and you know, some of those numbers I would just pay attention to that primarily look up what the what the call mind does see what they what they do for The that day for all the college athletes and and mimic it. I think that would be cool used to be I'm trying to think They had the 40-yard dash, they have the shuttle run. They had a vertical jump. And then two we did in the weight room, we did a-

Bench press. Bench press, we did squat, and we did power clean. Yeah, so you do, I mean, I think that would be a cool way. I mean, there's a lot of different ways you could do it, but test your baseline now, and then test it at the end, and I think you'll see that. I definitely would love to circle back with you and talk to you how this all went.

Sweet. Hey, this is amazing. I don't wanna take any more of your time. You guys are awesome. I'm gonna do every single thing you just said. Awesome. Appreciate the support, Brandon. And hey, reach back out to us

after you've gone through, okay? Okay, will do, thank you. Take it easy. That's cool. Well, it's cool that Mr. Jim was cool. I know, right? He's got the setup, for sure. You know, right? He's got the set up. You know, I can't stress this enough.

When people try to work out twice a day, the approach is so wrong. It's like, oh, I could do twice as much. That's a good call. No, you take your current amount and split it. Now you're gonna get better results. No, it was such a good point. And then the other great point you made too

is that is focusing on one or the other through that process. That's another problem is like you got somebody who's just pushing at all. Everything. Everything and it's like, yeah, that's where you go backwards. Even if you're quote unquote hybrid, like the thing is we have to develop

those skills individually first. 100%. Our next caller is Dwayne from the Turks and Caicos. Hey, welcome back dude. How you doing? What's happening? Morning gentlemen, how are you today? Good. Good.

How can we help you? Well, I was on in January. I was in Jamaica at the time, actually. I didn't go back to work for a little while, but now I'm down in Turks and Caicos. And I came on in January because I was just, I couldn't get your programs to work. And it probably because I wasn't following them right. Because I needed, I felt like I needed more time in the gym. I, I hear you guys talk about unhealthy relationships with the gym a lot and I'm thinking, yeah, it sounds like it

reverbs in my head what you're talking about. And so we had a great conversation. So hey, maybe, maybe you don't need to go to the gym as much maybe challenge yourself to not go as much. And, and when he said something to me near the end, he said, you know, I'd love to have a chance to coach you. So I left our chat in January thinking, okay, that's pretty cool. So I'm thinking, okay, if I win the lottery, then I can come down to California and spend a lot of money and you can coach me. And I thought, well, that's not reasonable because I bought a lottery ticket and didn't win.

And then I had a plan in place where I could take a four month leave absence. You know, I got some good savings. I just got to convince my wife that that's going to work. That didn't go so well either. And what my wife said to me was quite funny. She said, haven't you bought their programs but never really followed them? And she said, isn't that kind of like getting the coaching? And I'm like, well, no, you don't understand.

Coaching is always better. She goes, well, how about you try the program first? So I did. I grabbed a stat mix and I followed it letter and letter, word for word. I did it. I tracked everything the first time I ever tracked during my workouts. I was in the gym three years and make the off days, did some cardio, my trigger. I started doing some yoga on the off days as well. And I didn't feel like I was missing the gym.

And I got great progress. Like everything got up from 15 to 20%. I'm feeling strong. Maybe I'm not even feeling as tired as I did know I was feeling tired, Like I might everything got up from 15 to 20%. I'm feeling strong. I'm maybe I'm not even feeling as tired as I didn't know. It's not tired, but, but I'm not. So I've just wrapped up the aesthetics program. Um, and I think I'm going to jump over to anabolic and do the same thing. So I just wanted to give you guys a chance to say, I told you so, um, because

you did good job. Well, I appreciate that. Dwayne. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard. I think it's hard when you've been doing something for so long and you have that kind of attachment to exercise and it's very difficult to kind of step outside of that.

I'm gonna be straight with you. You're gonna do less volume and get even better results. Yeah, that's right. I know, you just started. Yeah, but great job man. This is good because what's happening is your fitness and health knowledge and this is good because what's happening is your your fitness and health Knowledge and understanding is maturing. This is what happens on this path of fitness and health is over time

It becomes well ideally it starts to mature and you start to understand things a little bit differently Like I wish I know I knew you know 20 years ago what I know now I can't even imagine what I would have been able to accomplish So no, you're this is great man Maps Anabolic is gonna get you real strong. Yeah it's just hard because and I always bring this up on the show that everything else in our life we were rewarded for harder work doing more of it and so it feels counterintuitive to think oh to do less is gonna get me more results because nothing else is like that.

You work harder, you make more money. You read more, you get smarter. Like you, you do, you practice a sport, you get better. Like everything else in life, the more we do of it, the better or the more we get rewarded, building muscle and getting lean and fit is not that way. There's a science to it. There's an art to it and more does not equal more results. And that's a hard thing to really connect those dots. It's probably for an already fitness person.

I feel like there's a great divide of people. I have one side of people who I never even talked to them about that because they haven't strung 30 days in a row of working out. And so they don't need that advice of doing less. They need the advice of can you just be consistent for a couple months and see what happens but then you have the other side which are the people that love to work out and they've connected the dots of all the things that makes them feel great and telling that person who has already connected the dots that

I feel great working out all these days, hey maybe you should do less and get more results, that just does not resonate with that person at all. So you're very normal to feel that way. It doesn't at all. Yeah. It doesn't at all. You know what, I hear you talk about it all the time, right? And it was, it was that, it was, you said I'd love to have a chance to train you and I thought wouldn't that be amazing? That's what I thought in my head. I'm trying to plan how to make this happen. And then my wife said, well, you don't you do their programs. I said, not really. I kind of went on the show and told him, I don't really follow very well because they don't work out enough. She was like, have you ever

really followed the program? And it was quite fascinating. Um, and when you, I think the next step in my, I think maturing in this is, you know, hit anabolic, keep up that good tracking because they've never tracked before weights, rep sets, amazing difference. Amazing to see that progression over time, especially through this exercise. My next thing to me now is, is to not be like, uh, I'm not big enough and I'm not strong enough. I think I have that, you know, you've got that, I have a negative body image. Uh, no doubt about it. I don't know. And you know, you've got that I have a negative body image. No doubt about

it. I don't know. And I got to work my way through that. I talked about you guys, you know, in your, your meditation and your all the other stuff. And so I got to sort of get that into the mix now. Yeah. Because it let's be honest, Calvin Klein isn't calling for a new, you know, underwear model tomorrow. Right? So so what am I? What am I pushing for Am I pushing to look like something I can never look? And what's it going to give me? Right? Yeah. That's going to mature as well over time. That'll happen over time. When you put your body or fitness or muscle or whatever at the top of your… By the way, it's a good thing. So there's nothing wrong with fitness. There's nothing wrong with working out unless

it becomes the ultimate thing, unless it becomes your God, which a good thing. So there's nothing wrong with fitness. There's nothing wrong with working out unless it becomes the ultimate thing, unless it becomes your God, which is what happens. And when you, that's a terrible God, it'll tyrannize the hell out of you. It's not a great God. It has no mercy, no grace, doesn't do anything except tyrannize the hell out of you. So it's just your priorities are a little out of whack.

And we see this in the fitness space all the time. This is something I've struggled with since I was a kid. But you're talking about it right now, which is interesting, which is good. This is the beginning of that starting to get better. And when it gets better, it just feels freeing is what happens. Yep.

Yeah, I think you're right. I'm trying to, I'm wearing this shirt today because my daughter bought it for me because she knew it was coming on the show and she said, you gotta wear this shirt on the show. My daughter's I want to say she's very much bungee for working out right she jumps all in and just goes down like hard and then she's right back out of the exercise again so I've been listening to the show a lot and I said to her listen I said if I'm gonna wear the shirt you got

to do something for me. She goes what? I, you got to get to the gym. And she said, okay. I said one, one day a week for 30 minutes on the treadmill. There you go. Great place to start. Yeah. Right. And I'm like, yeah, just do that. What you got? I can do that. Said, okay, good. And you know what? And she's, she's been doing it. Um, and she's, she's that, I'm going to go again tomorrow. I said, no, one day a week. Don't like it. I'm hearing you guys in my head. It's funny. cause I was telling everybody else a great advice to give and school, listen to the guys in mind and body, but of course I wouldn't follow it.

Why would I do that? But, um, it was amazing, right? What, uh, you know, so I'm hoping that maybe that one day a week, 30 minutes, then maybe it'll be two days a week. And then eventually it won't be this bungee jumping like 75 hard, some workout programs she found 75 hard where it's like, you got to do 75 days in a row with no break. If you take a break, the clock resets. Like what mad stupidity is that?

Um, and, and so, right. He did cause it's crazy. 75 days hard. And if you miss a day, the clock reset. Yeah. I'm sure it's a fat on Instagram or Tik TOK or something, but, um, yeah. So even I'm trying to give her that advice. How old is she?

25. Ah, she, have you ever thought about hiring a to give her that advice. How old is she? 25. Ah, she, have you ever thought about hiring a coach or a trainer for her? That would really help. Uh, yeah, she's living in a small town and there isn't one. Um, so maybe a virtual one might help. Uh, I, I, um, cause I've tried to, to, I've been into kind of semi healthy my whole life and tried to get her into that, but she's never been a sporty spice. But maybe find a real virtual coach,

not a Instagram virtual coach, somebody who actually knows what they're doing. It's probably a really good idea to sort of look back into that. Cause I've looked, but small town, you know, you don't have any. Are you on our forum, Dwayne? Did we put you on our forum?

Are you on our forum? Did we put you on our forum? Yeah you on our forum did we put you on our forum? Yeah, I'm a Facebook forum. Yeah, I'm in the Facebook forum. All right, man. Keep keep keep us updated brother Yes, this is good news. Yep. Oh well, it is good news I'm pretty proud of myself that I followed your program and it worked and you have a chance to say I told you so Okay, cheers guys, yep And you haven't, I can't say I told you so. Good man. Got you. Keep it up brother. Love the update. Okay, cheers guys. See ya. Yeah, there's rarely a situation where you get a fitness fanatic lowers their volume

that doesn't come back and go, what? I got way better results. This is amazing. Yeah, I know, it's totally awesome. I mean, I appreciate the admitting that because I actually think there's a ton of people that don't admit that, that do that.

Whenever I get somebody, oh yeah, I tried to follow it, it just didn't work for me. I'm like, oh okay. I wonder why. Yeah, I wonder why. Like maybe you didn't follow it. How long did you do it? A day.

Yeah. Our next caller is Will Cohen from Japan. What's up, Will? How you doing, Will? What's happening? What's going on, guys? Hey. How you doing, man?

How can we help you? Well, first off, I want to say thank you very much for this opportunity coming on your guys show. To be honest, ever since I kind of stumbled on finding Mind Pump, you guys have been an absolute game changer as far as fitness information, motivation, just kind of learning the facts. I mean, everything that or a lot of information

that you guys put out goes against the average information that a lot of people have. And I've had a lot of just bad experiences with, you know, past trainers based on the information they gave, which goes completely opposite of what the information that you guys put out, which makes way more sense. And currently right now working with Margaret has been amazing. She's on point and honestly I've had a lot of changes to my body already that I haven't had in a very long time so I just want to you know put that out now saying thanks for

awesome. Awesome. Always appreciate it you guys shout out our employees like that. Thank you. Great job keeps us on pace or on point. Yes, yes, yes. And so I've been, I had to start off with reverse dieting. When I first met Margaret, I was teeter tottering around, when I first started it was around 330 pounds at my heaviest. I was able to lose a little bit of weight prior to working with her, got down to around like 320. But I was only at like, I was eating like twice a day. And I just wasn't, I only ate when I was hungry,

but it was like a thousand, maybe 1500 calories at most. So, you know, I had to learn. I didn't even know what the reverse dieting was. I figured my metabolism was just dead. So I had to kind of go through that whole process of trying to learn how to eat more. Listening to your guys' videos too about learning their relationships with food,

that's been a huge help for me as well too because I've definitely been looking at things wrong. But since I've been consistent with Margaret now and consistent with listening to you guys as well since November of last year, it's just been, I've really like noticed that now, like when I look at foods, I look at it in a whole different light.

I'm like, man, that doesn't look like the right thing. This isn't gonna benefit my body this way or give me this type of feeling or energy. So it's been a good process. And now I'm around 306. So again, at my heaviest 330, it's a 306, but still pushing forward right now. Just came off a mini cut.

And now we're kind of up in the macros back up again. Awesome, man. Great job. Doing, great job. You're doing a great job. That's great. Are you following any math programs? Yes I am, yeah I was gonna say. So I started off with Maths 15.

Prior to doing all that I was just doing muscle splits and I know you guys talk about this multiple times on your shows. Whenever we talk to anybody else, they're just like, oh have an arm day, have a chest day, have a back day. And that's pretty much the only focus. And I kind of just plateaued with that,

but I was doing that with like around six days a week. When I first got with Margaret though, and I kind of gave her my whole background, she put me on match 15 to start, which was great. Like it took, I'm not gonna lie, it took a lot of adjusting just because I was used to doing so much more and that's 15 was so much less than that And I know you guys have actually mentioned several times. I know Adam has mentioned several times as well to

Doing basically getting more from less, you know, but doing it approaching it the right way. So That's 15 kind of kind of really open open my eyes with that just because I was still getting great results and I wasn't killing myself the way I was approaching it before. Fitness Maths 15 went into Maths Anabolic. That was awesome. I had a great pump with that as well too. Definitely helped me increase muscle size and now we're in Maths Performance now which man, and I know

Justin's had a lot of I'm sure a lot of input for and putting together their mass performance It is a it's a it's a it's a beast because it's a lot of movements that I'm just not used to doing Like the renegade push-ups or the the bear crawl or I mean there gosh there's so many of those that I was just like I had no idea what they were I had to watch the videos and and Then trying to do them. My body just wasn't used to it. But it's definitely I feel like health, my mobility and range of motion and things like that. So awesome. Well, you're looking good, too, dude.

Doug just pulled up your before and afters right now. Doing great. You got a lot of muscle. Yeah. Well, slow progress, but I'm pushing. Yeah, bro. Perfect. Doing great. Good stuff, man. Yeah. And I was gonna ask too, like after like, so when I came out of reverse dieting

and I was working with Margaret and now we're, you know, she was trying to, she always explained the science behind, you know, why we can't stay in that. But I kind of wanted to see if you guys could elaborate more like what I don't understand is why can't you just maintain like a thousand to 15,000 calories but still keeping example, 220 grams of protein

and just kind of maintaining that, almost like a carnivore diet basically, and just hoping that your weight basically is still gonna keep dropping. Like, why would that not be better long run? Yeah, well, it would die. If you just kept losing weight. If you were in an energy imbalance if you had an energy imbalance,

because let's just talk about that way, right? So you're eating X amount of calories and you're burning more calories. If that happened forever, you would die. And now you could do that, it would take less, it would need less than 1,000 calories, but you could do that. But the body's ability to adapt its metabolic rate

and activity and desires and all that stuff so that your energy intake matches your output is remarkable. I mean you should see the studies on POWs, like people who are prisoners of war, who are fed incredibly little calories, and yes they become emaciated and ill, but they live for years on like 300 calories a day, it's crazy.

So your body adapts and it's very sophisticated in the ways that it does it. There's a lot that we don't understand but it'll just adapt. So yeah you'd lose weight for a while and then you plateau and that's where you'd be forever. And that's the reason why we reverse it. Yes, yes. And then also when you're in a calorie deficit like that, especially when it's really low, your body's really not building any muscle. I mean you're mostly catabolic and so and muscle is only going to help your metabolism. So it's far more beneficial to reverse and then add some pounds of muscle on you because for every pound of muscle you add your body you're speeding your

metabolism up and so then it just becomes easier to maintain the physique that you're gonna be happy with. And so always just going cut, cut, cut, not only will the metabolism eventually adapt, but you're not gonna build a lot of muscle in a low calorie diet for an extended period of time. So you know, you're thinking about think about too, you know, a guy like your size, right?

Let's say you got down to, I don't know, 1300 calories and that's where you stayed forever. Yeah, I mean, you'd probably, you'd survive, but you wouldn't feel good. I mean, that's only 1,300 units of energy. So you would not feel good at all. You'd have hormone disruption, you'd be tired, brain fog. It's like, okay, can you run your car

on super low amounts of fuel? It's not gonna do much. You can't even idle it low amounts of fuel? It's not going to do much. You can't even idle it much, right? So that's the other thing to consider. So you know what we tend to see with people who've gotten their metabolism to adapt to really low calories? One of the first things they notice when we reverse them is they just feel better. They just have more energy.

They can think clearly because their body was running on so little before. So is it possible to keep that? Yeah, is it gonna feel good? Probably not, especially not a guy your size. You have a lot of lean body mass, Will, so you're not like a, you know, if you were like a five foot two, 130 pounds, I guess you could be okay maybe.

But yeah, you would feel terrible on that for long term. How long do you think a good, like if you're gonna start doing a mini cut, what's the time lapse do you feel like is the best, basically the most effective? I mean you can cut until you start to feel things start to get a little challenging or you start to want to eat a little more, but generally speaking a mini cut is anywhere between three to six weeks. Yeah, I never cut my clients longer than four to six.

Four to six seems to be, and the reason why there's a range because everybody's metabolism is a little bit different. Some clients will still be seeing great results week four, week five. Most clients I notice after about the third, fourth week, it starts, the progress starts to slow down. And that was always like a sign to me as a trainer, like, oh, okay, the metabolism is starting to slow down,

it's starting to adapt. Let's flip it, let's go to a reverse diet. Where a lot of people don't do that, what they do is go, oh shit, I'll just do more, or I'll cut more because it's starting to adapt. Let's flip it, let's go to reverse diet. Where a lot of people don't do that, what they do is go, oh shit, I'll just do more, or I'll cut more because it's slowing down. And it's like, that's just a quick recipe to hit a hard plateau and then rebound hard. Versus, you know what, I can tell my body

is starting to, the metabolism's slowing down, let's work with my body, feed it the calories it wants, build some muscle and go the other way for a little bit, and then just toggle back and forth. So you're running back and forth between these mini cuts, mini bulks, and you know when you look back six months from now you're looking at a transformation like you where you've lost 30 pounds on the scale and you probably feel like you're eating more frequently in the day than you were 30 pounds ago which that's a good place. It is yeah I definitely feel 100 pounds lighter. I mean it's night and day and of course clothes fit differently and that's always a motivating as well

I was also gonna ask you guys well, too So I've been diagnosed with Dytosia trerectae and which you know for a listener Sue isn't aware what that is Basically, it's like a separation of weirath comes apart I know it's more actually more common with with women after pregnancy than it is with men I think that I'm guessing this happened just because actually more common with women after pregnancy than it is with men. I think that I'm guessing this happened just because for my time in the Navy,

we would have, whenever we would do our fitness tests, we would have two minutes basically to max out as many days setups as possible. And I used to do it to the point where like, I would have part, just like maybe one of my abs just like clenched up and literally like, like popped out of my stomach and I was like trying to punch it back in.

And I don't know if that happened, but over time it's definitely separated to the point where prior to meeting Margaret, I wasn't doing any core training. I was just doing just sit-ups and sit-ups and crutches and machines and all that. But it looked like the thing from Alien, you know, where the alien was trying to pop

out of your stomach. So right now, you know, I've been doing the cable chops and things like that. But do you guys, in addition to that, I mean, do you have any routines or advice on how I could kind of slowly do something that would progress that like back and even be able to train abs still to still draw that draw maneuver? If they're, if they're fully separated, they'll never, you can't get them to connect again, except through surgery. By the way, it wasn't your workout that you did, it was the visceral body fat.

So the same reason why a pregnant woman's abs separate, when you have visceral body fat that gets really large, your abs separate to create room, okay? Yeah. So now they won't ever close, if it's a full separation, they won't close back up. However, the gap will shrink as you get leaner. It really won't make a difference when you're lean.

When you're lean, it's not gonna make a difference. But it'll push out if you have visceral body fat, pushing it out. The best way to train to help that is the draw and maneuver, which is like stomach vacuums. You might have heard this out. Like we have a, which is like stomach vacuums. You might have heard sound like we have a good, a good YouTube video on stomach vacuums. There's also another one where you get on all fours and you kind of let your belly kind of hang down and then you pull it in. Yeah. And so that, that will train that, that those, those inner core muscles that will help

pull like a vacuum in. And so those would be great and those are things you can do frequently every day. Every day work on that and do that definitely before you go do your workouts and that'll start to improve that. How about like oblique oblique workouts like like the ab twists and all that just work in the obliques instead of trying to do just sit-ups or crunches? I mean that's fine. It's not bad but it it's not gonna, it's not the desired outcome of what you're talking about right now. Like if we're talking about the the ab separation and trying to bring that back in, that's going to be those inner core muscles that are that's going to bring that

in. So you could build muscle on the obliques and external abdominal and do things like that. That's not bad, but if you really want to try and bring that all back in, it's going to be stomach vacuums, drawn maneuvers. And if you want to work and bring that all back in, it's gonna be stomach vacuums, draw and maneuvers, stuff like that. And if you wanna work your abs directly, what you would do is you would draw in, and then do it. Come up in a crunch and hold,

and really focus on isometrics. But too much fast work is probably gonna cause problems. There's the stomach vacuum video on YouTube that Sal did. He also did another one where the hip, like the hip flexor deactivator would be good for you, where you do the pressing the back really suck in your blank where you kind of tuck your tailbone with it so really crunch but if you see the bulge coming out in the middle then then you know I would

avoid that exercise until you start to get leaner okay yeah I definitely had a ton of versatile fat especially when we just started I used to I didn't even know about this real fat I used to just think that my my fat had muscle because it was like Rock hard fat Very common How about Like testosterone is there is there any way to cuz I kind of feel like so I struggle I think it was I think some of the information might have passed you guys, so I struggle. I think it was, I think some of the information

might have passed you guys, but I struggled with sleep. I have sleep apnea, but I feel like my energy and my testosterone is also super low. Do you know if there, I mean, in addition, or not including supplements, but is there any foods or, I know working out obviously will help naturally boost up testosterone, but is there anything additional that you guys recommend that could really?

Get your blood work done through our partners, dude. You gotta see what it's at. Yeah, yeah, get your blood work done, and if you end up getting recommended, which is a good chance, how old are you? 42. Yeah, okay, so you're not like a spring chicken anymore, so there's a good chance, especially if you feel that way,

that you're probably low on testosterone, they're probably gonna recommend testosterone. It's very inexpensive to take that, and you'll just probably have to take a low dose of it. And I'll tell you what, if you're low there and they fix that, holy shit, you're gonna feel and see a huge difference. You said you have sleep apnea.

Do you wear a CPAP? So I do not. Here's the, this is my biggest problem. I can work on controlling diet, I can do all those things. Sleep is my hardest obstacle, more than anything. I have a sleep apnea sheet next to my bed, but 90% of the time I don't even make it to my bed.

I watch TV and I pass out on the couch. All right, Will. Will, if you wanna raise your testosterone, go to bed and wear your CPAP. The detrimental effects of sleep apnea are so scary. Okay, I'm not gonna freak you out. But if you want to get scared, look it up. This is what eventually got me to get a CPAP machine.

We interviewed Dr. Gabrielle Lyon and the topic came up. After the podcast, she stopped me outside the studio and she goes, where is CPAP? I'm like, okay. So I looked up the data and it's like, you're gonna give yourself a heart attack, no joke, through sleep apnea, it's not good. It's actually a high risk for blood clots,

strokes, heart attacks. And then not to mention, your testosterone's destroyed, your insulin sensitivity gets affected. You're basically suffocating throughout the night, so you're not getting good sleep and you're oxygen-deprived so go to bed wear your CPAP. You know that'll change your life I'm gonna tell you that right now if you do that consistently that'll make everything more effective. Yeah. Okay yeah I'll definitely have to start so I know I need to start actually doing that. I was gonna ask you

too just one last question if I know you guys mentioned this in previous podcasts but I just wanted to know if you had any more information on it as far as your thoughts on body types like I'm definitely an endomorph as far as training or eating do you know if there's a Specific direction that you think it should go or really it really doesn't matter about those No, but what I will say this when I when I have clients that are more like endomorph, you do better with trying to build muscle than you do trying to burn body fat. And so lean into that. So that's why the reverse diet probably did so well for you is because your body type

is not the type of body type that does well on 1500 calories and running on a StairMaster. That's not what you're built to go lift heavy things. And so I do feel working, like leaning into the things that your body type is typically best for. And I know I'll get some pushback on the people that wanna shit on some anotypes and everything, but I'll tell you right now,

my clients like you did great when we focused on building muscle and building your metabolism that way versus running it off. My clients that were super lean and had a hard time building muscle, they did better at getting lean and running on a treadmill, but then they had a hard time building muscle. So there are, there are, and I don't know if it's as tied to some anotypes as it is just genetically we're all different, but there is something to be said about working with what your body wants to do versus trying to force it to do something it doesn't want to do and you you look like the body type that if we really

wanted to get strong and build muscle your body would say hell yeah let's do this versus you trying to be this little petite 175 pound dude your body's gonna be like fuck no I haven't been that since I was six I don't want to be that you know so I do think that there is an advantage to leaning into your body's natural strengths that's good information I'll definitely look into that I appreciate that very much as you guys yeah you guys are great again thank you so much again thank you for the opportunity to come on the show and talk with you guys keep it up bro you're doing great thank you yes thanks guys you know we haven't done an episode on some man-o-tags we should talk about that

I have a lot of opinions about that. We could, right? I have a lot of opinions about that that are probably controversial. Well, so do I. I think there's some truth in it. Yes. I don't think this is all baloney. Yeah, I don't think, I mean, think of your experience.

How many clients like him, like I- Oh, 100%. Like, just, they do not do good with super low calorie, I mean, they feel like getting every pound of fat on store, but if I told that guy, let's go get strong as fuck, he could be underfed and get strong, that body type. And so- There's a general truth to it, for sure.

There is, and I understand that there is- I have some strong opinions too about it. Yeah, it's definitely not the- It'd be good conversation. I just think that we've dismissed, science has dismissed it. And then so everybody's just, you throw it out completely. It's like, ah, there's some value to understanding that. Good topic.

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