Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2611: Ways to Modify Your Workout Program for Maximum Gains & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: 5 ways to modify your program for maximum gains and why. (2:36) The AMAZING effects of saffron on depression and anxiety. (21:04) Failure training for hypertrophy. (26:46) Early predictions for the Enhanced Games. (30:19) Highlighting the difference between men and women. (41:46) The faith resurgence pendulum. (44:31) Consumer beware. (55:03) #ListenerLive question #1 – Is it ok to program hop even if I don’t complete a program from start to finish? (57:14)  #ListenerLive question #2 –  What are the big lessons you learned with your spouses as you began your lives together? (1:05:14) #ListenerLive question #3 – Am I wrong for aiming to be a functional athlete? Still being able to do heavy lifts, but still able to run an 8-minute mile? (1:18:07) #ListenerLive question #4 – I am at a complete loss right now as I am struggling to navigate my training around these injuries, and I am putting in all the hard work and battling to see the results. Any advice? (1:31:46) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Mind Pump Group Coaching Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off** Visit Luminose by Entera for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MPM at checkout for 10% off their order or 10% off their first month of a subscribe-and-save. ** June Special: Shredded Summer Bundle or Bikini Bundle 50% off! ** Code JUNE50 at checkout ** Mind Pump #2312: Five Steps to Bounce Back From Overtraining Mind Pump #2552: From Plateau to PR… How to Break Through Strength Barriers Saffron effectively complements antidepressant medications Effects of resistance training performed to repetition failure or non-failure on muscular strength and hypertrophy: A systematic review and meta-analysis Enhanced Games Visit Transcend for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer! Are athletes really getting faster, better, stronger? | David Epstein Welcome to Hot Girl Walk® Visit Seed for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code 25MINDPUMP at checkout for 25% off your first month’s supply of Seed’s DS-01® Daily Synbiotic** The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love that Lasts Mind Pump #2320: Throw Away the Scale! Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is mind pumping. Today's episode, we had live callers call in. We got to help them out on air, but this was after the intro. Today's intro was 55 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness, science,

fat loss, muscle gain. We also talk about current events and we have a good time. By the way, if you wanna be on an episode like this one, email us yourquestion at live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now this episode is brought to you by Mind Pump Group Coaching. We have a fat loss group and a muscle gain group happening right now or soon. This is, these are coached by our trainers.

They're Mind Pump trainers that will coach you either for fat loss or muscle gain. Sign up before they get too full. Go to mindpumpgroupcoaching.com. This episode's also brought to you by Organifi, makers of organic, incredible supplements. Today we talked about their happy drops. You can get 20% off if you go to organifi.com,

that's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump, get 20% off. And finally this episode is brought to you by Luminose by Intera, they make some incredible skincare products. Today we talked about their skincare product that contains the peptide GHK-CU, which has been shown to boost collagen production by 70%. Nothing does that, nothing, except for GHK-CU.

Again, Luminose by Intera, go to interaskincare.com forward slash npm, that's E-N-T-E-R-A, skincare.com forward slash n-P-M,E-R-A, skincare dot com forward slash MPM, use the code MPM, get 10% off. We also have a sale on some programs this month. The Shredded Summer Bundle of workout programs and the Bikini Bundle of workout programs, both those bundles, 50% off.

If you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and use the code June50 for the discount. Here comes the show. T-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time! Ah, shit, Doug, you know it's my favorite time of the week. Four winners this week, two for Apple Podcasts, two for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winners are Provangelis12 and MBrooks2007.

And for Facebook we have Shay Andrews and Jarrett Simon all four of you are winners. Send the name I just read to iTunes at mind pump media com include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you. Modifying your workout program can propel your gains forward. Failing to modify can cause plateaus or worse injury we're gonna talk about the ways to modify your program for maximum gains and when and why you should do this. That was a great idea.

Let's go. Another one from Adam. Racking them up on a roll dude. Two in a row. Wow, your dancing got better too. So I'll start with the first one and then we can kind of break down a little bit what modifications mean. One of the more common reasons why you wouldn't want to modify your program is because you feel over trained. You feel a little burnt out, fatigued, noticing sleep issues, a little excessive soreness.

You just feel like you're overdoing it. This is a very important time to modify your routine and the best time to modify your routine. And the best way to modify your routine in order, I think, although we can debate and discuss what we think, would be kind of lower intensity first, then cut volume down and then add more rest days, although I do feel that this order can be switched on. 100% can be switched on.

I think that's good general advice But the truth is you would make the decision based off of a couple qualifiers You would ask somebody are you the type of person who trains to failure all the time? Yeah, or are you the person who's doing double days like so if you're like a Train to failure time. I'm gonna back off intensity if If you are doing double days and super setting everything's volume. Kitchen sink. I'm gonna reduce volume. So it really depends on, or if you're the guy

who never takes a day off, you train seven days a week, I'm gonna do a rest day. So it really depends on that. I think what you said is good general advice, kind of go down the, but if you know that you're one of those three, that's how I would probably do it. So let's speak personal experience. So for me, whenever I start to feel a little burnt out,

I don't typically change anything except for lower intensity. And I just go in at 50% intensity, I get a little bit of a pump, and I do that for a week or two, and that typically brings me back on track. Part of the reason why I go with intensity, not the others, is because I just enjoy being in the gym.

So like not going to the gym that sucks for me So I'd prefer to just go much easier and it's worked out well for me Yeah, I think I mean it depends on what I'm doing and what my goal is at the time Obviously like for what I was doing recently and trying to press myself with intensity Lowering the intensity wasn't an option for me So I definitely lowered the volume, which made a big difference, and then later, then even dropped another day, so I had another day of rest.

But yeah, I think shifting that order definitely depends on what you're leading up towards. I think that the tough part with this is a lot of people don't realize that they're here. people don't realize that they're here They don't realize that they're overturning. I think if you are feeling it and noticing it you've been there Yeah, you've probably been there for a while because I think most people especially people that are that are into fitness, right? They enjoy doing this. It's been a part of their life for some time Tend to think that the soreness and the plateaus and it's just part of the

process. Or worse, they add intensity volume. Yes, right. Because they're not seeing the results they want, so they think, oh, I need more. And that's probably what's more likely, this person probably needed to reduce intensity or volume the previous time, but they felt that, they felt the plateau, or they felt not seeing progress and decided, oh, let me add more, when they probably should've

backed off before, and then now your body's really screaming at you. Yeah, 100%. So the number one, the first sign that I see for me when I know I'm over training, if I'm smart, if I'm being self-aware and not getting carried away, because I can have that relationship with exercise where I don't pay attention, I just keep going. But if I'm being smart, the very first sign that shows up

for me is sleep disturbance. Before the fatigue in my muscles, before the excessive soreness, before I notice that I'm just not able to push as hard or whatever, it's usually what it looks like for me is I'll wake up once or twice in the middle of the night. I'm a little restless. When that starts to happen, if I keep going then I get the other signs. If I pay attention to that, for me, cutting down the intensity usually does a trick and how do I know? I get better sleep. I start to sleep better. I would say for me it's excessive soreness is the indicator that I tend to notice first. Because I've tried to really hone in on, you know, my desired outcome of a workout is to

feel that I worked out the day before, but I don't want to feel, you know, I don't want to feel that. And to me, any sign of that is I did more than I needed to. So it's like, okay, if I'm really sore, that's my first indicator of like, okay, I over train. Now, it may lead to disrupting my sleep, but I think I noticed first. Yeah, with that, to me, that's the first indicator of like, I always like that, my view is so opposite of how I assessed yesterday's workout.

Like when I was 25, if I wasn't painfully sore the next day, I was like, oh, that wasn't a good workout. Yeah. Waste. Yeah, it was a waste, or I need to do more next time. Which is the complete opposite now, where it's like I did a workout the day before, I'm feeling like, okay, I could tell I worked out a bit.

Okay, that's perfect. If I'm sore at all, I'm like, god damn it, I knew I shouldn't have done that last set. Or I knew I didn't need to pack on that other 25 pounds, I could have just stayed with that weight. That's how I'm sore at all, I'm like, god damn it, I knew I shouldn't have done that last set. I knew I didn't need to pack on that other 25 pounds, I could have just stayed with that weight. That's how I'm assessing it now, is like, I could have done less and got just as much out of that.

So what's weird about that, what's interesting is, I've been so overtrained, and what happens to me, and I've talked to other people this happens to as well, is I stop getting sore. Yeah, yeah, because you're so overtrained. I just don't get sore from my workouts. You're so adapted. And I bet I start to feel fatigued.

Yeah, that's where I notice it the most, is I feel like so fatigued, and it just carries on throughout the day to where I'll be driving home and nodding off, and I'm like, oh my God, I'm too over-stressed. The first time this really made sense to me was, I, stupidly, in my early 20s, attempted to do a double split,

like Arnold Schwarzenegger style routine, and because I owned my own business, I had the ability to schedule my clients in a way to where I was doing two workouts a day, and I thought I was going great, because I wasn't sore. I wasn't sore, and I'm like, oh, I can keep can keep doing this I can keep doing this. Of course I had all the other signs disrupted sleep, fatigue, I was getting weaker and that's when I was

like oh okay the soreness for me isn't the best indicator it's all the other stuff. No I think it's a really good point because I have been there too and I think this is when you are more prone to over train is that you ignore the early signs of just over soreness. You keep going through that no longer get sore anymore than you're like, oh, now it's now trickled down to the sleep and then the midday fatigue and stuff like that. So the other idiot lights. So I agree. I agree with that.

I think, uh, I think that again, that's the highlights, my personal evolution of getting better, right? Listening with the first, yeah, I. Yeah, I'm listening right away. The first flag is that, but you're right, previously I had trained myself to ignore that, that it would have to then bleed into the other one. That's right, so real quick recap, you could cut the intensity way down 50%

of what you normally do, or you could cut one or two sets off each exercise, or a whole exercise completely. Or instead of following a seven day split, you add extra rest days, so now you're working on a 10 day split, or something like that, or just take a whole week off. Yeah, a real, I think a generic, so people have,

your intense, easy way to just literally reduce all the weight 50%. I mean, if you reduce the weight of 50% for the intensity of your work. And you're like, that's too easy, that's the point. Yeah, and then the volume one, if you just took a set off of every exercise is a generic good easy way to kind of test.

And what's always a great indicator that you were over trained is you do that and you feel better. You're stronger. You're stronger, you feel like you either maintained or gained strength doing less intensity or less volume. That's always a clear indicator

that you were overreaching. That's right. All right, next up is when you are feeling like you wanna get after it, you are feeling good, good nights of rest, you're feeling strong, and this is when might be a good time to kinda get after it. Well, the two ways you could do this

are either adding volume or adding intensity. In my experience, I get better results and my clients have typically gotten better results by adding volume. Adding intensity, boy can that turn bad very quickly. Because the intensity matches the energy real quick. And it turns into just like I'm gonna kill myself. But typically what I'll do, and again what I've done with clients, when they're feeling great, we're

gonna add just a couple more sets. Not a ton more, but just a couple more. You've already had two more sets, you've dramatically increased the volume, and you've taken advantage of this great energy. I'm with you, I agree on the adding volume here. Because it's just adding intensity is such a delicate thing, right? It's a, I mean, I think of intensity like the nitrous in a car, right? It's like, absolutely. It has tremendous value.

We know what the research says about crack your engine block. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, seriously. That's why I like that analogy because it's like, yeah, absolutely. A shot of NOS will definitely get you ahead, but it's also easier to abuse that or blow an engine rod. It's like, oh, you're far better off just driving a little definitely get you ahead, but it's also easier to abuse that or blow an engine rod. It's like, you're far better off just driving

a little further, you know, drive a little bit further, more volume, right, and you're less likely to overdo it versus, oh, I feel great today, and you go right to that nitrous, right? Yeah, because I've overdone it with intensity because I felt like I was great. Yeah, I'm so much better with my clients with this, obviously, yeah.

Yes, yeah. I've been guilty of going the intensity route, but yeah, it's so much better to do volume. Totally. Next, joint pain. You got like nagging joint pain. This is a combination of things that you do at the same time, and most people only do one or the other. So here's what you do when you have joint pain.

You cut down your volume and you replace that volume with mobility work. In other words, you replace volume with your traditional exercises with mobility work. In other words, you replace volume with your traditional exercises with mobility work volume. Now most people do this. They either cut the volume and that's it. So like, oh, I'm gonna do less shoulder press. It hurts my shoulder, which is a very temporary fix. Doesn't really solve the issue.

Or they just throw mobility on top of their current workout and their body can't necessarily handle the extra work. So what it looks like is, let's say you're going to the gym and you have kind of nagging shoulder pain and your typical workout, let's just say, was overhead press, three sets, and three sets of laterals. And you notice the overhead press is what really hurts your shoulder.

Well now I'm gonna do three sets of mobility and then laterals. I'm gonna skip the shoulder press and replace it with mobility work. It's not like a band-aid. That's in that I have seen this a lot especially with clients They'll ask for certain movements and things to really help with this pain and then they'll just add it Before or on top of what they're currently doing and not addressing the fact that this is You know too much stress that we need to kind of pull back a bit from the volume

Well, what did you guys say that joint pain typically is due to weakness or dysfunction? Yeah, instability, dysfunction. So if that's the case, then the reducing volume is going to help with bring down inflammation. The added volume and mobility is hopefully going to address the weakness or instability. That's right.

And so in a perfect world, I notice joint pain. So reducing volume, OK, that's going bring down the inflammation. Now what do I put into the workout? Oh, I put movements that are going to support where the weakness is at. And it's typically around some joint, normally little back hip area is gonna be hip mobility stuff. If it's shoulder, like you guys, it's shoulder mobility type of work. And that's going to not only help bring down the elimination and also facilitate recovery, but also address where there might be

some sort of instability and weakness. Yes, now here's another key with this. You do the mobility at the beginning of the workout, not at the end. People make this mistake all the time. Now, doing it at the end is okay, but it's subpar in comparison to doing it in the beginning. Now why, why would I do it in the beginning?

Because doing proper mobility at the beginning is gonna change how I do the exercises later which will also contribute to improved stability. So now I'm doing the mobility which is great for stability and now because I'm getting muscles to fire differently I'm gonna be doing my traditional exercises now are done differently and was also contribute to the mobility. This is our philosophy around priming. Here's an area that your body is not moving ideally, most likely due to the instability weakness. Prime around the joints before you go into your workout, therefore when you go into the workout now hopefully that joint is moving more optimally and that's really what that's

all about. Totally. All right, what about if you just plateaued, right? I just plateaued, I'm not getting good results, you've already identified, you're not over-trained, so that's not the issue. Why am I not getting results? Well, it may be time to change a variable in your workout. Now, there's a few different ways to do this. The easy way to do this would be to simply change

the tempo of your lifting, and I'm not joking. It sounds silly, it sounds stupid, but I like it because it's simple and it's easy and it doesn't require lots of programming knowledge. In other words, you could take your current workout and oh, I'm plateauing, what do I do? I could either go lighter and lift faster, which requires a little more skill,

or typically, most often, do slower reps. Do a four second negative, train like that for the next three or four weeks and then watch what happens. Would you guys say that the more advanced an experience you are the more likely the variable or the novelty needs to be different meaning I find with a like a very new beginner and they hit a plateau like this all I have to do is tweak one of these variables, tweak tempo with that. Somebody like say I was training one of you guys who's very experienced,

I would have more success with almost changing all of it. So let's say Justin loves mass performance, he's always training that, he's complaining to me, oh I'm at a plateau, Adam. So switching him to something way different than that. Classically different would be the move. That's gonna probably manipulate some of the exercises, it's gonna change the tempo, it's gonna change the tempo,

it's gonna change the rest period, set all the above. And that to me I find like, this is how, I mean, when I am communicating online to people that ask this, like say in a DM, I'm gonna ask like, hey, what program are you currently following? And then whatever they, whether they're following a maps program or one of our programs that are like, a program like one of our programs, I'll take in what they're following a maps program or one of our programs that are like a program

like one of our programs, I'll take in what they're talking and then I'll send them in a direction that I think is way different. Yeah, now here's why that's the case, by the way, for people listening, saying well why is it that for beginners changing just one variable is good or better,

whereas when someone's advanced, you change the whole program completely. When you're advanced, the learning curve that happens from doing all these different variables is short. It's very short. For a beginner, oh my God, if I take a beginner and move them from a powerlifting routine to one that's more on athletic performance,

there's a massive learning curve that has to happen before we can even train the exercises properly with intensity or whatever. There's too many variables all at once, which is fine if you find it fun and enjoyable, but it actually slows down your progress if you're looking for consistent progress. With the beginner, one variable is enough.

Otherwise, you're gonna end up throwing too many things. Because it's super novel to the beginner. The beginner, tempo, they've never manipulated it. So it's a massive novel stimulus. The guy like one of you guys who've played with tempo a hundred times in your routine, it's novel enough for a workout but not novel enough to see continual gain. So then I'm gonna switch up several things

and then I feel like you're going to reap more benefits. And rep ranges is up there as well. But again, I like tempo and rep ranges because it's simple and easy. But again, if you're more advanced, change the program. Lastly, unmotivated or bored. Now I do want to clarify this the program. Lastly unmotivated or bored. Now I do want to clarify this that if you get unmotivated and bored after two weeks of working out like you got to work on your discipline. Yeah. Okay like

this is just you needing a hyper motivation to consistently work out in which case exercise the muscle of discipline because this is gonna serve you very well in on your fitness journey long term. But if you've been working out for a long time or you've been pretty consistent for a while, six months a year, you're like, God, I'm just, I just, you know, this is just, it's just boring. I don't feel motivated. It's time to switch your goals and your mindset. Now, here's why I say mindset. Switching goals requires a change of mindset. Okay, if you've been powerlifting for a year and at first you loved it, couldn't wait to go to the gym,

it was so fun, now you're finding yourself going I don't want to go do this, this is kind of boring, I don't feel like deadlifting, squatting and benching and it's just not that great. Yes, switch your goal but also change your mindset because the mindset has to change because you're not going to be deadlifting, squatting, you're gonna maybe lose strength in those but now maybe you need to focus on lateral mobility, lateral strength, maybe a little bit on stamina, maybe on unilateral type of work,

which requires a completely different mindset, because if you don't change your mindset, what you may fall into, the trap that can sometimes happen, is you go into a new training goal or program, and you start thinking about all the gains you're losing, or oh man, my max is going down or whatever. Yeah, I do think this probably applies a little more towards your advanced person

just because of that fact that like, you're building upon this discipline. You're learning how to really get your body to adapt and what to do. Consistency is the ultimate focus in the very beginning. And so if you're at a place where you're a pretty consistent person,

you're doing all the right things, but at the same time you're just like, ugh, it's been drudgery because I've just been focused on the same thing. This is where we can kind of play with a different stimulus. Yeah, how you open this was really important as far as comparing the two types of people here because we do have we have a large

audience that follows maps programs and I do get this quite a bit where somebody and I asked them and they and they tell me something like oh Yeah, I have like six programs and then I ask well, which one did you finish last and like, you know What I haven't finished any of them all the way through and they tend to bounce From you know program to program to program. That person needs to hear, you need to follow through on it. You need to actually follow it all the way through and trust the process and be consistent,

reap the benefits from the consistency and trusting good programming. That's total different advice from the person who actually follows through. So that makes a huge difference in who you're speaking to on how you do that. Totally, hey, I gotta talk, you know, the active ingredient in Happy Drops

from Organifi Saffron, I've talked about this for a couple times. I just keep reading studies on its effects on depression, anxiety, it's pretty amazing. They even showed, they even did a study where they combined it with antidepressants and showed it actually made the antidepressant work better.

With it. With it, but on its own, on its own, it seems to be a serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. So increase the levels of those neurotransmitters. All those neurotransmitters can combined, can give your brain kind of this better sense of wellbeing. So it's like one of the best natural compounds

that I've seen. And there's a few that are out there. St. John's ward is one of them. But the data on it is kind of like, eh, it's kind of meager or whatever. Saffron like seems, the study seems to kick ass when it comes to like lifting mood. It's pretty awesome.

Did you say that it's an adaptogen? Or does it work like an adaptogen? It may, but it may in a different way. That's a good question. Because does, okay, so, because I think the first thing that somebody, you hear that and you go like, oh, okay, well that's great,

but then does it down-regulate and you adapt to it and then you no longer see benefits? That's a good question. I don't know, but the last study that I looked at, I'm looking at one from, I saved it, I'm looking at one from 2009, ready for this? So Doug, what is the brand name for, let me see, it's fluoxetine.

Fluoxetine is an SSRI, and I don't remember what the brand name is, but it was as effective for mild to moderate depressive disorder with fewer side effects. Prozac. Prozac. Oh, that's Prozac. So classic Prozac, thanks, I knew it was that one.

Classic Prozac, it was as effective with fewer side effects and the kicker is, saffron's cheap and inexpensive. So weird when we have studies this to support that I mean is that because how we also have studies that support the opposite like why would we even continue to Prescribe that to people if this is in these studies that showing that saffron is as good or better I know I know how like I know that the you know The drug industry is the biggest gangsters that we have But so I get the it's money motivated driven

But man when we have stuff that's showing in studies that it's as good or more effective and it's natural Wild to me that we still would even use that what is it because like I said, the consumer just isn't aware I'm pretty sure. Is there not other studies that show how great the Prozac is and other? Well yeah, let's think that's the oldest, I think that was one of the first SSRIs most widely prescribed.

It's, you know it's funny, it reminds me of, I had a conversation yesterday with some of our team and they were asking me why the medical community is so behind on hormone replacement therapy treatments for parametaposal and menopausal women. And they're like, why is it that, because now we're seeing it makes a big difference,

and I know people, they went on hormone replacement therapy and it solved all the- Life changing. Life changing. And they're like, why wasn't this studied, or why is this new, why isn't there a lot of doctors? Look at who does all the studies. Well, here's why.

Look at the margins on estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone, and look at the margins on SSRIs and anxiolytics. So what they were doing with women, again, if you look at categories of people who are most likely to be prescribed SSRIs and anxiolytics, it is postmenopausal women. The margins on those drugs are massive.

The margins on estrogen, testosterone, and progesterone, which are all generic, are tiny. So it makes sense that the money would go in that direction. And if you go to the doctor, and doctors are great, right, but they're only gonna do what they've learned and been taught, you're a woman, you go to the doctor and you're like, oh god, I don't know what's happening. Suddenly I'm just feeling not myself, I'm irritable,

or I feel kind of down, or I'm getting all these anxiety symptoms, I don't know what's going on. The doctor's like, let me prescribe you an SSRI, let me prescribe you an Enzyolytic. And it kind of does solve the symptoms, but it was coming from these massive hormonal changes, which you could go on these hormones, get your hormones balanced, and it's less side effects and better for you.

Yeah, I don't know who we had on, but it just was so enlightening, the fact that we just were so behind with women's health. It's because we just, too, like it's dangerous to have women sign up for a lot of these experimental studies, you know, with the reproductive effects of that. And it even dawned on me, because like most people that would even sign up for like a study where it's like, you know, you could potentially have some side effects or not,

or all these college-age men. Yes, when you put up, what they do, what a lot of these companies do is they'll send out like a bulletin and it'll say, looking for willing participants to engage in a study and we'll pay you $50 a day. What, it's just usually almost nothing. Screams teenage boy.

It's a bunch of college-aged males because they're more written. Risk, it's like, okay, cool. They're less risk averse. They're like, yeah, I'll make some money. I'll take some placebo or whatever. Let's see what happens. It's far less women signing up for it.

Definitely far less menopausal women that are gonna sign up for that. So you just see results that typically apply to men and not necessarily women. Are men and women different physiologically? Physiologically, of course. I know, it's crazy. Especially comparing that teenage boy

to a very menopausal woman. Yeah, absolutely. Little bit of difference there. Crazy data there. I found a study on hypertrophy, actually a meta-analysis on failure training for hypertrophy. This is so cool. Okay, this is so cool. It was a meta-analysis.

Training close to failure is great for hypertrophy, but when it comes to building strength, not as necessary. And this is great because strength athletes, Olympic lifters and power lifters, oftentimes train at lower intensities than bodybuilders do. And so what does this say to you? Why is training for strength require less intensity than training for hypertrophy?

What do you think? Better programming. Well, I think it's objective. You have to add weight to the bar and so there's less room for error. Like bodybuilding, you can get away with, whoops, too much there. It's not a big deal.

And I don't care if the next day I go to bench press and I'm 50 pounds lighter, it doesn't matter. Well see, what these studies are actually showing is it does contribute more to muscle growth. So I think bodybuilders have it right for the most part, but I think it's because people don't realize that strength is as much of a skill as it is bigger muscles.

So a powerlifter who could practice bench pressing three days a week at a lower intensity is gonna bench press more than a powerlifter who trains almost to failure once a week might get bigger muscles. That's fair. But isn't gonna bench as much. It's the skill aspect of it.

I think that's kind of what's happening. Kind of cool though, right? I think people listening, the takeaway from this is to play with both. Increase your frequency, drop the intensity. Unfortunately, I don't think it's gonna be received though from everyone. Everyone's gonna be hard.

Yes, I think that's the problem with that study is that that's gonna lead. I mean, I find that, again problem with that study is that that that's gonna lead but I mean I find that And again, I was guilty of this because of studies like that. I go. Oh, it's great for high-purchase Well, that's why I care about is building muscle. So I'm gonna train to failure all the time I think most people that are fitness enthusiasts people that will train consistently Overdo the failure training. Yep. I think that you can train Never trained a failure and build an incredible physique. I think you long-term better. I think that you can train never trained a failure and build an incredible physique I think you long term better. I think you can get strong

I think you can build a great physique and never have trained to failure. Yeah, doesn't mean I don't think failure has its place I just think again back to like the nitrous analogy It's just so easy to overdo it and over apply it the average person who doesn't know anything about engines are most likely going to blow their engines. I thought, yeah, I thought you're going to bring up like some kind of discrepancies of like this exercise selection in comparison, you know, with your strength versus like your hyperdrophy focus. No, no, but I will say this too. You see, that's hyper. You guys don't pick good exercises.

Lame exercises. That's what I'm saying. Side press. Cool. That's exactly what I'm saying. Exactly what you're saying. Side press. Yeah. Pfft. Cool. That's a failure though.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think, you know, what's important to bring this all together is that studies on strength training are never two years or three years long. They just don't do studies like that. They're at the most two months, three months long. Is getting stronger because your technique is better,

does that contribute to more muscle growth in the long term? Absolutely, absolutely. So I think it's important to train for all of it, even if your goal is simply hypertrophy. I think in a year or two or three, the biggest muscles are gonna go to the person who trains both for hypertrophy,

closer to failure, but also has those cycles of training skill and technique like a strength athlete for strength. I think they're both important for that. And that's the thing about these studies that you have to be very, yeah, very kind of careful. I saw that you shared something that, I brought this up on the podcast a long time ago,

I don't know how long ago when I first saw this news and I saw you brought it up today, and I gotta admit, I'm really, really excited about the enhanced games. Oh yeah. I just, I just. Did we first speculated it before it was a thing? We were like, it'd be cool if they just like went all in.

I mean, I've, it's bad to say this, I guess, I don't know. I've always thought to let them, cut them loose. Cut them loose,'ve, I've, I've bad to say this, I guess. I don't know. I've always thought that let him cut them loose, cut them loose. Just like I think in regular sports, I mean, look, baseball. Yeah. It was uninteresting. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, super interesting. Doug, I'm going to send you a picture of Australian swimmer. Uh, like a bodybuilder, James Magnuson. He competed in the Olympics and now he's competing in the enhanced games. Now what's interesting about you... I want you to see his before and after. So I know you're gonna bring up an extreme example but I bet you, okay, here's my... let's have some predictions on this because I actually... and I think it's gonna be a great experiment. No doubt steroids give you a huge advantage but in sports Oh my god. He looks way different. Yeah he does look way different. Any idea what his times are before and after?

Oh they're already talking about it. They're already these enhanced athletes are going and they're competing in these little pre-games and they're already breaking world records. Really? Yes. Wow. They're shattering world records. And what's happened is he's bigger, he's got more mass to contend with. So what happens is- Because you would think some of that is not habitable. Yeah, I don't know if it'd be an advantage. Yeah, no, no, he's still training like his-

Because muscle sinks, bro. It ain't helping you skim across the water. He's not, listen, that physique that you see on the right is not because he went and started bodybuilding. He's training like he did before. The only difference is- Yeah, yeah, yeah. The only difference is-

He's enhanced. Yes, by the way, that's not saying that Olympic athletes don't enhance themselves, but they can't go too far because they'll get caught. Yeah, they can't be a complete lab experiment. Yeah, these guys are like, they're going into it. Yeah, hook me up. Test me. Yeah, test me, hook me up, do whatever. Here's what he's taking. He said, like, is there no limits? No. Like, in all the things. Nothing. Like like he could literally just keep like every peptide everything Take every growth hormone like so here's what he's on. Let's go. So he says I feel like I'm 18 again And what he's on is he's on testosterone

And he's all on peptides BPC 157 CJC 1295 and Hypermoralin so testosterone and growth hormone releasing peptides. And I bet you he's actually not on a crazy testosterone dose. Well no, too much would make him slow. That's what I mean. That's why I think this is gonna be interesting because there is a line.

It's not just like the more steroids you take, the faster and better you're gonna be at everything. Like there's definitely a bell curve here of where it's like absolutely it helps. This is impeding on performance and skill. So here are the events that they're doing that I know about. and I think it's only These events I know it's swimming events and track events and weightlifting which one you think

Can we get some dates and details on this like when is this going down happening in Vegas by the way, yeah May 21st through the 24th of 2026 and yet next year next year okay okay okay so we still got a year yeah I want to go yeah I know I would be down I so want to go to this we should go just yeah we should absolutely go I want to see what happens when you take I want to know if transcend is sponsoring this they should absolutely be like a major sponsor oh my god dude I think if you're one of these athletes and you're just all the peptide Yeah, dude, like you should they should tape the name of the now. Okay

I guess if it's just swimming weightlifting and would you say I think so. Yeah, it's truck and field Yeah, is that it? Well now truck and field is a lot of things though Well, they have the hundred meter sprint and the 110 meter hurdles. So not a lot of events. That's it. So, okay, let me ask you guys this. Any predictions on... Look up all the events.

I want us to guess which one is going to have the biggest impact. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so they're swimming 50 meter, 100 meter, freestyle, that's a freestyle, and then 50 meter and 100 meter butterfly. Okay. That's it for swimming. Okay. Then for track and field, 100 meter sprint, 100 meter or 110 meter hurdles,

and that's it for track and field. Okay. And for weightlifting, snatch, clean and jerk. Okay, I gotcha. I already know which ones are gonna have the biggest record breaking. Okay. All the short distances for swimming and track,

not hurdles, but the 100. Yeah, just the short stuff. That's everything, Joe. I think we should pick a, obviously. Of all of them? Yes. I think swimming will but the 100. Yeah, just the short stuff. That's everything, Joe. I think we should pick a... Like, obviously... Of all of them? Yes. I think swimming will be the least. I think you're right.

I think swimming, I think... Because you have water drag. Yes. It's so technical. Yes. It is... I agree. I think it's one of the more technical ones.

It is also the least advantageous to be super muscular, so being way, way more muscular. Now granted, they're all taking that. That's gonna be helpful for training, right? Recovery. And that's where it's an advantage. But I think we'll see the least impressive, they're all gonna probably break records, but we'll see the least impressive record breaking in swimming, is my guess. Okay, so I would say the most impressive I would say would be the clean and jerk. I think that's probably gonna have the biggest impact. Now here's the other thing though, keep in mind, here you're gonna have swimmers competing the enhanced games and they're gonna be trying to break records set by people like Michael Phelps. Yeah. Michael

Phelps was a genetic phenom. Yes. So to get a guy who couldn't even be, let's say was in the top five, suddenly break out, that'd be a big deal. My point that I'm making is that, and this is why I think this is gonna be an interesting experiment, is we talk about all the time about genetics still trumps everything.

So the most ideal primo body for swimming is still a better advantage than the average Joe who wants to take a bunch of drugs. So it will be interesting if they can even beat his times. So, is it all like athletes that used to be like top tier athletes that are now like coming out of retirement? Oh, they have to be, Justin, because they wouldn't even, because to this point we're making right now, the average dude would not even come close to touching Michael Phelps.

You get a state, you get a juice. I'm a good swimmer. You could juice me out of my mind, train me for a year, and would not even come close to touching my you get a state you get a juice I'm a good swimmer You could juice me out of my mind train me for a year and I wouldn't come close to touching his yeah but I mean I know like it as this evolves and becomes a Staple and an option, you know, and it gets more money involved be interesting to see if people actually Started their career early earlier and going in the enhance route versus trying to go legit and crossing over. Here's the problem.

Well, first off, the prize money is a million dollars. See that's significant. A million dollars. And in a swimmer, a track athlete, and an Olympic lifter, they don't make money. You're not going to need the prestige. You don't make no money in those sports. Isn't this a lot like the L.I.V. and then the golf? Like in terms of like, well just the money. Well here's the deal.

Who's the organization putting this on? So I know Trump is one of the investors. Well investor, but who's the organization? I don't know. It's called Enhanced. That's it. Such a good name. Broids.

Just call it out. Come watch steroids. Well it's got to, Not for kids. It has to be retired athletes because I bet you, competing in this disqualifies you for the win. I know. Exactly. But I guess what I'm looking at with that is when they start comparing times.

I think this is a great experiment too to show how genetics are superior. That's right. I think it's a really cool thing to watch. It's gonna be really interesting to see. I think combo the two. I won't be surprised if we don't see any of these records being broken. If another Michael Feldstein you tell me, I will be surprised. I would not be surprised by that. I'll be more surprised if these guys break the totally the genetic anomalies records in Olympics. I think that's what's gonna become

the neatest part about all this. Well, I mean, let me ask you guys this. Yeah, if you have my expectations, I guarantee you of what it's gonna do. Would a top 10 athlete in the world, let's say you're ninth, you're ninth in the world, you compete in the Olympics, you get ninth, would gearing the hell out of that person

get them to first? No, no, I don't think so. Maybe, probably not. I don't think so. Probably not. I don't think so. Probably not. You'd probably get top three. Yeah, maybe. Maybe top five. Maybe you jump a few spots,

but I don't think it makes you the best. No, you're right. No, I agree. I think maybe if you're one and two, and you're number two and you're close, and you push, maybe you edge out there. You're not going from 10 to the greatest by stories. What happened to Ben, remember Ben Johnson? I was just thinking of Ben John. What was he before he won gold and they got caught taking?

I thought he was already crushing it. I don't think he was first Carl Lewis, right? And that one got it revoked wasn't he the same guy who the balka guy that helped him to was almost there's a whole documentary On him I thought there's speculation that a lot of them a lot of the sprinters that that didn't get initially popped like they found out later. By the way they were smart at the events they picked you know they picked the events that they thought the steroids would impact the most because you do distance you do things that super technical yeah you're not gonna have that big like if it's long distance. I wonder do you think that's what they did?

Are these the founders? Yes. Oh yeah. Look at those guys. Yeah. Short distance sprinting. Definitely. Oh, he's, he's, oh, these are investors. Those are investors. Yeah. These aren't necessarily the founders. Whoever's going to be running it. Who are the, yeah. Who, who, like who came up with the idea? I know. I mean, it's, it's a smart idea. I wish I came up with it. It is. Cause everyone's going to want to watch it. I, well, I would imagine the harder part is getting it. I don't think it's a unique idea as much as it is like how you got this to pass and be allowed.

How do you not get shut down? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think all of us at one point thought, you know, it'd be cool. Let's take all the steroids. What kid didn't think of that? I'm sure the only... Steroid baseball. Steroid basketball.

Right? Football. Let's go. Keep in mind it's in Vegas, they approve pretty much everything, so if you're gonna get it approved anywhere, it's gonna be the place that has legal prostitution, so I'm pretty sure. Yeah, no, this'll be, I'm super curious, and I think, here's why it will die. It'll die if it, because I think- If these guys don't do anything except that.

Yes, I mean, how boring is that gonna gonna be all enhanced and they can't even beat their Event. Yes, I mean it might honestly I bet you it will I I would not be surprised So don't be surprised people are gonna have way higher expectations You know what makes I think so too You know what they've shown to make the biggest impact on swimming or these suits that they had to ban Do you remember those suits that they were wearing? The streamlined ones? They had to ban those because they were such a technological advantage. Zero friction. Oh yeah. Well remember that one TED Talk we watched? The evolution of sports is mostly all that. Even like the way the pool is

designed where the water flows over, that made one of the biggest differences in the speed all the records being broken. Once they had the... So they were in the little shower cap. Yeah all those things make a make a big difference so they're where they wear this thing keeps going or like what we'll try is the way that athletes look of course that is because it's gonna be marketable yes it's marketable it looks cool but I've never just seen a swimmer look like but how lame is it gonna be though when these like crazy looking bodies don't outperform

all the Olympic records? I bet you that happens actually. You know this is great. I can't wait to see. It would be cool to bet on it. It would be cool to bet on that because I think a lot of people are going to assume that they have this massive advantage. They do have an advantage but it doesn't trump genetics, technique and training.

That's for sure. They do have an advantage, but it doesn't trump genetics, technique, and training. Skill, yeah. That's for sure. All right, I got an event for you guys that apparently is somewhat going viral. Margaret brought it up to me yesterday in my meeting. She does our customer service. She does a great job. It's an event?

It's like this, yes, it's kind of like an event that people are signing up for. And it's called the Hot Girl Walk. Have you guys heard of it? The Hot Girl Walk? The Hot Girl Walk. I'm imagining this. Hot Girl Walk is what it's called the Hot Girl Walk. Have you guys heard of it? The Hot Girl Walk? The Hot Girl Walk? I'm imagining this. Hot Girl Walk is what it's called.

And by the way, You stick your butt out and wiggle it left and right. Here's what it is. It's called, it's hotgirlwalk.com. And it's, what is the Hot Girl Walk? Here's what it says. A Hot Girl Walk is a four mile walk where you think about three things.

So you can sign up for this for four miles and you walk. This is a real thing. This is what it is, okay? By the way, I'm just gonna say this ahead of time, this really strongly highlights the difference between men and women and I'll tell you why. So here's what you do. The first, for the first mile, you think about the things you're grateful for.

So you just walk for a mile, you know, for the first part of the day. Think about the things you're grateful for. Then you think about your goals and how you're gonna achieve them. And then finally, you think about how things you're grateful for. Then you think about your goals and how you're gonna achieve them. And then finally, you think about how hot you are. Is that really what it is? Yes, dude.

What? Yes, bro. It's three things? That's it. Who, man, who came up with this? And people are, it's going all over the place. It's going, it's like all over the news and you can sign up and find out.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Well, that's because you're a guy, dude. By the way, that- And that gets people to do four miles. Well, okay, so here's where I like to highlight- Face palm. The difference between men and women, which I think is great.

I think it is motivating for a woman to do those things, and at the end, think about how hot she is or how great she is. I think that helps. For a guy, let me just tell you what this would look like. The first two things would be the same, think about what your gratitude, your goals, the last part would be think about what a piece of crap

you are and how weak you are. That would be the motivator. You know what I'm thinking? You were a pussy. I'm always so curious how something like, how this takes off. Like who decided this would be a thing and then how did you get a big community behind this?

Yeah, dude. I thought this was some weird catwalk thing. No, that's right That's what I thought that was like a real like a no 30 second Yeah, they have a row your hair and shake your butt like they're in Miami, New York City LA Nashville Las Vegas, it sounds like this sounds like LA I Booty pops and then you're done. Yeah. Yeah, dude. So anyway, I thought I mean we can hate on it, but it's like not a bad thing I get some walk. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I'm Progratitude, you know, I'm pro walking. I'm pro confidence. So I mean, I guess it's all just goes like Just don't you think about how hot you are?

Yeah, you should try a hot guy walk and see if that goes see we get that trendy Well, some guys would sign up Are the are the are the alpha guy groups still going like crazy is that still is that losing its luster? I feel like I haven't seen any feel like we peaked. Yeah Sargent's like alpha alpha alpha girl. I would love to see the enrollment on those I mean, I think they're dropping and I think what's happened because the data people know how stupid they are I would love to see the enrollment on those. I think they're dropping and I think what's happened, because the data now. People know how stupid they are?

Well, I think, here's what, okay, it's my speculation. Because what you saw for a second was that, and now we have data on young men and the direction that they're going in the trending. And where they're trending is actually towards faith. They're going towards faith. They're going to Catholic religion, Orthodox. They're going to non-denominational.

And I think what happened for a while is men felt lost. I think they still do. I think they were told that they were toxic. I think they were told that they're worthless, that you know, whatever. And so guys were looking for something and you had a lot of these sharks on social media. They're like, come to my event in the woods

where we scream at you and tell you how to be tough And I think some guys went to that like this is not it There was a cool thing I somebody broke down to recently I remember we had talked about this a while ago even shy LeBoeuf whatever yeah went through this whole thing of Spiritual discovery, but there was like a Latin mass that became popular Yes, it's because and he was explaining it more from a right brain left brain perspective. We do everything is left brain everything is geared towards left brain you become you you want to control and kind of steer and in Once they translated from Latin to bring it over it lost a bit of its mystery and its its presence

There's no I'm gonna I'm gonna challenge your thinking, I don't agree. I think there's two major things that's going on from your perspective. I think you're in your own bubble, so that is what you are reading content-wise 24-seven. Do you wanna show your data? And then I'm gonna address your data. Okay, okay.

And then that has been on such a downward spiral for so long that any sort of uptake looks like a revolution. Oh, it is. It's been, bro, it's been, if you look back, and where it's at right now is still 40 years ago. No, you're right. So it's like, that's not a revolution, bro. It just hit bottom.

I think we were just hit with so much artificial propaganda. Correct. You're right, Adam, but that's exactly why they're saying that this is unprecedented because for decades and decades and decades men have, especially men, have been dropping out of faith and churches for decades and this is the first time we've seen in I don't know how many decades, I got to look at the data, where it's reversing and it's reversing in young men which is typically the demographic that is the worst.

Typically, if you see men start to go and reach the faith, it is men who are middle-aged who've had children. But what we're seeing now for the first time in decades is a reversal in young men. And I think it's connected. I think COVID did it. I think this assault on, like, you're a guy, masculinity's toxic, and this, that, and the other.

I think the pendulum swung so far that it had to come back. We went so far the opposite direction, and it went so far down that it's bottomed out, and you're seeing a slight reversal. And that slight reversal seems so impactful because it is in comparison to the last 20 years, but it's really nothing that special. It's more than 20 years. It's the that special. It's more than 20 years.

It's more than 20 years, it's decades and decades. Yeah, decades and decades are going down. That's right. So, I mean, it's like, at one point as a society, we were already here, we came all the way here, and you're like touting where we're at right here. We're like, we're nowhere near where we were. No, not at all, but you know every expert on the,

nobody would have predicted a reversal. Every prediction was it's gonna keep going down until it becomes. Oh, come on, I predicted that. I say it out of time on this podcast, we swing left to right, swing hard, and we've gone so far to the point where we were saying masculinity was toxic and evil and bad,

and we were totally praising the opposite, and I couldn't imagine it getting more extreme. We were that far, opposite and it's just I couldn't imagine it getting more extreme. We were that far and so it had to come back. I could have imagined it getting more extreme. What I'm worried about is that what you think is this huge revival is just that we hit bottom and before it's gonna swing so hard the other direction that we have to come back again before we even get any sort of climbing.

Yeah. So I don't know if this is... I mean historically that seems to be what happens but since the modernization of society it's only gone down. It's only only gone down, especially the youth. It's only gone down for a long time. Yeah but don't... religious grifters are gonna start coming in. Bro, it's trendy. It's getting attention right now. I sent you guys this. I'm not gonna say the company because they're not sponsoring us. I'm not giving them a free commercial. But there's a pre-workout supplement

I sent to you guys. And it's like a faith-based pre-workout. It's got like Christian Crusader. I know. This is what I'm worried about. I'm worried that we've gone down, down, down, down. We're in an upward trend, to your point. But that it's going to swing so hard, so fast that

it'll get countered with fakes. Yes. And then it will, it'll take some, it becomes cool. That is potentially a good positive movement and young men and then turn it in like the very next generation will be going the other direction again, because it swung. So I know it's, it's, it's really weird for me, dude. I'm going to be honest. Like I've been in this game a long time and then like Ned Flanders was like a standard. This was like the guy, everybody shits on Ned Flanders. I did not want to be Ned Flanders. You know, like I'd hide when people from church

saw me at school, you know? Because I was like, oh yeah, I'm not like, no, that guy. You know? But now it's the opposite. So to me, it's just, it's interesting to watch culture go through this crazy. Isn't that funny? Yeah, it's crazy.

I know, it's so funny. Why it's fast now, dude. It's so- Oh, it's cool now? Like what? It's so fast and it reminds me when I brought up the whole TV thing that I saw so fast. It's just like, whoa, we just went like so hard

one direction and then all of a sudden now I'm seeing, I mean shows take a while to make and produce and push through, so to see it go from there to there that fast, like damn, that was quick. So now I'm more worried that. Are you saying, are you thinking this Adam, that rather than marketers or Hollywood or whatever content producers like you said,

like on Netflix, you were talking about some shows that have switched so quickly, and you're right, they take a long time to make. Do you think, rather than reading the trends and responding, they're creating them? I would not be surprised. Some of them. I mean, how do you not question that, to my point?

No, you're right. I mean, I definitely could be. All of a sudden, there's a little bit of movement, and we already got movies ready to go, like, that's crazy. Because you know how long it takes to produce a movie. That's not like an overnight. It takes overnight. Yeah, it takes a long time. So years ago, would you even think that some of these movies and shows that are getting

highlighted right now would even be highlighted? No, I would think that would take another couple of years for us to kind of wake up and okay, now the trend's moving. Okay, let's start making movies in this direction. But no, we were like, I was like, Whoa, wait a second. That was a little little quick right there you know. At least enough to make me go hmm that's interesting. Well I know when I see like Eminem and Bruno Mars coming out with a song. Is that real? Can we fact check that Doug because I don't believe that. Yeah it's supposed to be released tomorrow. Eminem is making a

worship song with Bruno. I don't believe this make sure you confirm this dog yeah because I just don't believe that Bruno Mars Eminem worship song I don't know Bruno Mars on my bingo card dude yeah that was not on a bingo card dude I know that that make your your your conspiracy cackles or whatever I mean I don't so I don't know where I don't know like I've never really I mean I'm definitely I mean I look at it too like in that whole music world and especially the rap world and everything else Like you don't want to be associated with what's going on right now and trial with with Captain P Diddy, you know, so I mean it could just be a move where it's like I'm disassociating myself So I'm having a hard time to figure out what's true by that too

Because there's a bunch of stuff going viral of people speaking on these in trial and said they're not it's not real It's like yeah, what what it you know you wonder if they're just gonna inundate us with so much fake news around that you're just villainizing and scapegoating and I Mean it's weird like if you listen and I don't necessarily listen to Candace Owens a lot But like I she's really big into all this stuff and even like went over the whole Weinstein stuff and how like most of it was not even factual But like a lot of the abuse and stuff was or like he's like a womanizer, but he wasn't but he wasn't a rapist Mmm, and then she was going through all the the facts in the trial and how it all got dismissed

But but it's like, public perception is still that. So I imagine, I don't know anything that she's talking about, but I would imagine that her philosophy or theory around P. Diddy is that there's something much bigger, greater than him orchestrating all this and he's the fall guy. Yes. Oh yeah.

Yeah, a lot of the other executives, you don't even hear about them. Wow. There it is, Eminem dropped a gospel rap song. Wow. I, this is, that's crazy. Is that a legitimate source right there, Doug? No, I was searching all these different posts and I couldn't really find anything definitive. Yeah, I could send it to you, Adam, but it's supposed to be released tomorrow. I mean, you showed me the thing, but again, I don't believe anything I see on the internet now, just face value.

I feel like I need to have cross-referenced it eight times before I talk about it it because it's like I don't know how many times I've been wrong. Yeah That looks fake that looks AI to me bro, I know I think there is some suggestion I really think that like the the board like 2019 you know 100% AI. Yeah. Well, you know, it does look like AI you know what that's the comments next next time we come in we'll confirm it so we'll let everybody know because it's supposed to be released tomorrow but you know the thing with P Diddy Justin what makes me think is like remember the banking crisis and nobody went to jail nobody got busted because what do they call it too big to

fail too big yep I you know someone like P P. Diddy, it may just be that so many people are implicated, so many powerful people are implicated, that nobody gets, maybe he's the full guy. Even him, like, they're already thinking he might get away with the truck, because they're not charging him with the wrong, with the right thing. They're charging him with sex trafficking, which is not, you know. They can't prove that. They can't prove that, but they could prove that he had abuse with his, yeah.

His ass. That he had baby oil parties. That's a thousand doubts. All these stories, it just, I can't even conjure that in my mind, like, what they're talking about. It's just like, what? I know, dude. Yeah.

I know it's wild. Anyway, I got some information on GHKU and skin so I was looking up so GHKU for people who know is a peptide that I mean radically accelerates collagen production amazing in the skin okay topically you get a 70% increases with the study show in collagen production collagen is what makes your skin look firm reduces wrinkles essentially will make your skin look younger and I was looking up because you see companies now are selling face creams

and stuff with GHKC. Most of them have 0.1%. That's it. Luminose. Is it really in there? Luminose has the highest percentage you'll find. Period, end of story. It's expensive but it's got the highest percent. By find, period, end of story. It's expensive,

but it's got the highest percent. By the way, aren't they offering a discount? Yes, they are. You're gonna feel so bad for the consumer who's, you know, hearing this stuff, shopping, and then it's just like, I mean, I think of like Red Light, you saw this, anything that is actually really works and gets a lot of traction, gets the studies behind it, and it starts flying, then here come all the charlatans that make Pixie dust the shit we saw something in the CBD market, right? Which with all the good all the good studies start coming out CBD CBD soap there was CBD and everything you know just like oh man way to just really just ruin it for everybody, you know Cuz you take that and then you you hear on some podcasts. Oh, I heard so great and it's like I didn't feel anything from that

That's what's gonna happen with it. I think this also no So. Luminose has a significant, it's the highest percentage you can find of GHKC, it's 20% off right now, which is good, because it is expensive, but it's got all the GHKC in it. I think that's it. Real GHKC is not cheap. And normally things like that, like red light, those types of things are expensive if it's the real deal.

And you pay for what you get, because I think those types of things, you notice it right away. If you use that cream, you'll see a difference. Oh, within two applications. Yes, you'll see a difference right away. A good probiotic will help your skin, your digestion, might even help your mood.

That's what the data shows. Oh, by the way, we now have studies showing it improves athletic performance, but some probiotics are just not that good. That's not true for seed. Seed is the world's best probiotic. Go check them out. See for yourself. Go to seed.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code two five mind pump. Get 25% off back to the show. Our first caller is Lee from California.

What's up Lee? How you doing Lee? What's happening? Hey guys. Thanks so much for taking my question. Really appreciate it. You got it. Dude. How can we help you? Yeah. So my questions around programming, you know, with kids and schedules and stress and nighttime routines and wives and birthdays and all that stuff, sometimes I have more time than others to get a workout done. So oftentimes I can get my 45 minutes, you know, 75 minute workout in, but then there's days where I really only have time for more of like a map stick protocol

So, you know right now I'm trying to get to performance so, you know, there's weeks well, I'll I'll get through like one or two weeks of performance and then the schedule changes and the and You know, I need to jump to like something more like a 15. My my question is Is that okay? Should I jump to maps 15s? Can I break up a couple exercises within performance? And these go for all the other programs, Anabolic and Powerless.

What are your thoughts around that? Yeah, you're totally fine. So there are a few, what I would say, and of course there's always, you know I have to say this because there's always individual variance, I get this, but there are acceptable, and even I would say, like reasons that I would encourage someone to program HOP.

One of them is, are you over training? Do you have an injury? Is the programming starting to hurt you in some way? The other one would be time. So now that's a very valid reason to hop. I don't have enough time, should I do nothing? Because what ends up happening is somebody says, well I have this program, I can't go to the gym for an hour,

maybe I could do maths 15, but I shouldn't program him up, so I'm just gonna skip the workout. Like that's a worse option. Now the reason that sometimes people program hop that I would say is unacceptable or not encouraged, yeah, as it says, I'm bored. Yeah, I'm bored, I need some different. I need to change it up all the time,

because I like to change things up, in which case you're compromising the programming, and that typically leads down a path of poor workout programming. Okay, so in other words, the reasons I listed in the beginning, you know, injury, over train, you know, you have other priorities in life because you're, yeah, it's like life,

excuse me, like time issues. Like changing the programming there is appropriate and encouraged. I would tell you as your trainer to do exactly that. If you came to me and said, hey man, I don't got a full hour to work out, what do I do? I would 100% move you to like a Maps 15 protocol.

I'd say probably most of us, I mean maybe excluding Sal because he's a little more consistent and ritual with his times, probably work out like this. I would imagine the other guys, or at least I do, I might be running like an anabolic type of protocol for a month straight and then just busy the following month and so it just makes sense that Maps 15 is more conducive for my schedule and so yeah I think so. I think this is a very realistic but Sal's point I think is valid

because when we have people that have hot programs a lot of it is because they're bored and they want to move to the next thing and they need that novelty all the time of something new. And it's like, well, if that's the reasons why you're doing it, you're missing out on reaping the max benefits. And it is always ideal to run a program straight through. I mean, it's programmed with that intent, right? But we're splitting hairs on, you know, how much gains am I losing by doing that? And the option is, normally the other option is to not do it at all because you can't do exactly your program. That's a worse option, so you're better off doing what you're doing.

Is it Maps 15 or Maps 15 Performance that you have? 15. Yeah, why don't we send you Performance 2 so Mass 15 performance that you have? 15. Yeah. Why don't we send you performance too so you have more of a you have another program with that kind of programming that kind of workout timing and scheduling. Yeah because you know you're mentioning your your time issues. This way you have another program with different workout programming, different exercise setups and so on that you can reach into.

Because I love those two programs specifically for what you're saying. Yeah, you know, the 15 keeps me motivated when I can't get the full workout in and I'm kind of subscribing to the something's better than nothing protocol. My question though, let's say I do anabolic or the full performance and I get, you know,

through phase one or even through phase one and two and then the schedule changes and I need to hop to the 15 protocol for however long, would you jump back in where I left off? Would I restart the program from the beginning? You mean the maps 15 program? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no I'm full anabolic or something, would I, and then I go through,

let's say I go through four weeks of Maps 15, would I start anabolic where I left off, or would I just start from the beginning? I would start from the beginning, but if it was like a week. Yeah, a week or maybe even two, but yeah. Otherwise I would probably just jump out. I mean, straight up though, we're splitting hairs now.

Yeah, now we're really starting to split hairs, but I would say four to six weeks is when you'd probably want to start over. Sure, sure. All right, that's great. I really appreciate the advice. Yeah, you got're really starting to split hairs. I would say four to six weeks is when you'd probably want to start over. Sure, sure. All right, that's great. I really appreciate the advice. Yeah, you got it, man. I like your shirt, too.

Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for pulling in. Thanks so much. Yeah, so just to get a little deeper in this, when programming a workout, there are a lot of components that make it a good programming.

One of the components is the entirety of it, right? So when we write a program that's three months long, There are a lot of components that make it a good programming. One of the components is the entirety of it. When we write a program that's three months long, it all works together as one program. That's going to be the most effective way to use it. However, if in the middle of it you're like, I'm over trained or I'm getting poor sleep or I injured myself, guess what? That program is no longer ideal for you. Then moving to something that's gonna be more ideal

for your current situation is gonna be better for both your results and I mean everything else, injury prevention and so on. And then time is the other one, because people fall into this problem, which is very common, it's like, man, I can't do the full work, I guess I'm not working out today.

Which, that's not good. Now, he did say something like, something is better than nothing, that's generally true but not always true. Sometimes what people do with that is they say, well I only have 20 minutes, so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna beat the crap out of myself and get the most out of this 20 minutes,

in which case that was not better than nothing. Yeah, and if you've been teetering on over training, you know, your body could use the rest and you could actually do better, so. Now, are you guys more likely to Be following like a maps and a ball program because you currently have time and then drop down to 15 because you have a busy week Or yeah or a busy week or do the reverse I'm gonna follow more of a math 15 protocol and then when I have more time add volume to yeah What you said the second that's how I am now

So when I was younger it probably be the other way around it would be I'm always doing the most I can when I can and then when I can't, it's like trying to- Yeah, when I have those open moments, I'm like, oh cool, I'm going to do a full-on workout. That's probably better. You guys are probably saying long-term is probably great. I think that's a better strategy and I think that's how I approach it today. That's why I wanted to bring it up versus how I probably would have approached it before. Because there's also the option with the way MAPS- 15 is written is you could group those together. So I would be running more of a MAPS 15 protocol and then hey, when I have these weeks at a time

where it's like, oh wow, I'm freeing up or I'm feeling really good, hey, I'm gonna stack those workouts together is probably how I would lean into it. Honestly, what you're saying is just generally speaking, long term, you look at the big picture, that's a great way for people to work out. Just currently for what I'm doing right now is I'm trying to limit the amount of time

I'm actually lifting weights, but that's a different thing. That's another thing that people need to consider. There's all these individual variances and there's a lot of things that you have to consider and your workout is not your life. Your workout is designed to improve your life. You have to think of it that way. So how's this gonna improve my life versus how do I organize my life

just to live for this workout? That's where the fanaticism can start to take hold and a healthy workout becomes unhealthy. Our next caller is Matthew from Indiana. What's up Matthew? What's happening dude? Good, how are you guys? Good, good.

Thanks for having me on today. You got it man. So first start off like everyone else big fan of the show. Let's see you guys every day on the way The way to and from work and while I'm working out, so appreciate the time Jump right into it 26 I just just turned 26 girlfriend is 25 We both met at college been together over three and a half years now. We are currently closing and buying a house and moving in together this summer.

Proposal is also coming very soon. She's the teacher and I work at the college where we both met. She's a teacher and I work at the college where we both met. Both. We both practice the same religion. And we also want kids in the future, both work out every day, lots of casual walks, occasionally run sign for runs, half marathons, five case, things like that. Both lift weights and work out at home. But when school is on session here on campus, I'll go to the gym here. And so as fathers and husbands, what advice can you give me to help guide, help guide

me into the this next phase of life. And if possible, what is a big lesson you learned with your spouses as you began your lives together? And a little extra information that I did not include, both come from very good families, raised the right way with good, uh, good siblings, good parents, good things like that. So raise the right way.

And, uh, just want to hear what you guys thoughts are. I mean, I love that you're asking this question at your age and this is something that's important to you. That's, uh, that's awesome. Half the battle right there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, uh, intentions, everything going into this.

Yeah. Cause it's going to be, you know, if you plan on getting married, and the idea is to be together for the rest of your life, you're gonna be very different 10 years from now, so is she, and then 10 years from them, and there's gonna be so many challenges and celebrations you go through together. Life is, you know, life is unpredictable.

So the fact that you're asking this is super awesome. I mean, I could tell you a lot of what not to do. That's I think the best advice I can give. Well, let's start with the fitness thing and then we'll go to like the husband thing. And so my piece of advice on the fitness thing first would be, you know, make strength training the core foundation.

All the other things you listed, plyos, running, the occasional walks, obviously, I think you hopefully can never stop doing that. But as you get busy, right, and as you have a kid and life happens, some of this time gets away. And I had a tendency early on in my 20s to be all or nothing. And when I look back and I go, man, I really made a mistake being that guy.

Like, you know, it would have served me to just have 15 minute workouts or just do one workout for the week if it was strength training based, right? So make that the core foundation, make that the non-negotiable, make sure that you lift weights weekly. And it doesn't necessarily have to look like this

one hour workout three to five times a week. It could be sometimes a full body routine one day in the entire week. Sometimes it can be two exercises a day. And then the other stuff is like the additional things because that will give you the greatest ROI as far as keeping you strong, fit and healthy long term. That's my fitness advice. My marriage advice, we could go all day on all the different things that I think

to think about. I think one of the most powerful things in my relationship was understanding her love language and how important that was. I've met a lot of people and you may have already experienced this where you feel like you truly feel like you're loving the other partner because you're doing this thing, right? You're putting this effort towards loving her and she doesn't receive it. She thinks that you don't say it enough or you don't do the things enough.

And you're like, what? I do this and I do that. And a lot of times it's just a misunderstanding of what their love language is. We have a tendency to love others the way we wanna be loved. And it doesn't always align with what their love language is. Like, give you the example with Katrina and I, and then when this happened,

I'll never forget this day, cause it was a really powerful moment in our relationship where she was just like, you know, you don't, you don't tell me that you love me enough. And I feel like, you know, I always have to ask for it. I'm like, what? I'm like, and at that time, literally it was a time in my life where every week I was buying her like a lululemon outfit or something or sneaker I was always thinking about her at at you know While I was working and when I had a brief moment

I would do that and I remember pointing over the dresser go that dresser is Full of lululemon outfits that I've bought you in the last year and that's me going out of my way in the day to buy that for you and show you my how much I love you and think about you. She's like I don't need that I just need you to tell me and so and later on I read the book Love Languages and that that really made a big difference because I really felt like I was loving the shit out of her yet she didn't feel like I was doing it. And vice versa, it can happen the same way too. So I think that was a really powerful thing.

Yeah, that's great. You know, it says in your email that you're both practicing Catholics and you both are pretty devoted to your faith. Marriage, marriage as we know it and practice it, like one man, one woman for the rest of your life, having children, that's a Christian creation.

So just like if you were asked to ask me, hey, Sal, where do I get the instructions to put together this piece of furniture? I would say, well, the best place is to get the instructions from the manufacturer. The person that made that furniture is going to give you the best instructions because they're the ones that made it. So the best instructions for both of you on marriage are found in your faith. Ephesians five is really, really good for this.

And it really does explain it. There's more in other parts of the Bible I can't remember where, I think it's second Peter somewhere, maybe first Peter. But Ephesians 5 is great. And so I would recommend that both of you get in there, read it, understand it, pray.

I read some data, I've never seen data like this before in my life for divorce risk, but couples that pray together nightly have a divorce rate of 1%. There's nothing else that has that big of an impact on divorce, there's nothing that comes close to that. And then couples that do that don't just not get divorced, the rates of satisfaction and joy and love and purpose

are also so much higher. So that's where I'll point you. Now personally, I can tell you what not to do. I made a lot of mistakes. I still make a ton of mistakes, but especially my first marriage, I made a ton of mistakes. I lived by what the world told me was valuable.

I thought my value was making tons of money. I was prideful, lustful. And I thought, oh, the way I'm gonna find success is what the world shows me is supposed to be success. And that ended in total disaster, and even in the first half of my current marriage. So that's where I'll point you, is look there, because he's the creator of what you're trying to do.

He's gonna give you the best instructions. And if you both go into that together, again, I'm a data guy, too. I looked at the data, and there's nothing more effective. I haven't seen anything that's more effective than those things right there. Yeah, I don't have a lot of advice. I mean, it's kind of like an iterative process.

This is something like we went and got counseling beforehand which I think is something to consider and we do have a religious background as well. So it got us equally yoked, as they say. And that's just something that we set our intention out in that direction. And then, so that's just the foundation that established. But from there, it's really just a lot of communication,

a lot of understanding differences, lots of areas that we find that we can grow together. We're always both individually seeking growth and then growth together as a couple. And so whatever that looks like and what you guys can figure out where you can build something together, I think going forward in terms of longevity, that's probably my best advice. I read a quote or I heard a sermon, and it was such a great quote, and it said, couples, the guy said, couples don't fall out of love,

they fall out of forgiveness. And I thought that was so true, because you are very flawed, so is your wife, we all are. As a Catholic, you understand that. And so it's going to be about constant grace and forgiveness and repair throughout the entire marriage. Because I guarantee you're going to screw up, guaranteed. Your wife is going to screw up. I guarantee you're going to be selfish. I guarantee you're not going to be understanding. I guarantee she's not going to

show you respect sometimes. I guarantee she's gonna screw up and be selfish. And so it's like, you know, it's just constant repair and forgiveness. But again, Ephesians five is great. I mean, my wife and I go through that so often together and alone and it has been absolutely transformative. Yeah, one of the things that I hear you guys talk about a lot is being very intentional.

So with your spouses and significant others. So we, when we met in college, our senior year after graduation, we both moved back home to our parents houses, two hours away. So we've been doing back and forth for three years, two hours distance for three years. And, uh, finally that's coming to an end of the summer as the school year wraps up for her. And, um, one thing that we've done really, really good at over the last three years is, uh, being very intentional with how we want to spend our time and even leaving our phones away

when we're together, uh, to go for walks or hikes or, um, Going on a date night and things like that, just to spend intentional time together. And we want to make sure that we continue to do that. And, uh, when we start living together here pretty soon. That's great man. I think that's super important. You're gonna do good man. You're gonna do great. Yeah, you're a good guy. Just thinking about it right now. Yeah, it's gonna do you super powerful. One last thing I'll say is the man, the father, and the husband, you're the CEO of your family. So when it comes to making time, just like if you're a CEO and you got interviewed by a news

station, they're like, hey, how come your company's tanking? You imagine a CEO up there saying, oh, I got these crappy employees and I got this person. Everybody like, what a terrible CEO. So ultimately success is actually on you. And so talking about making time and being intentional, that's ultimately your responsibility. So just keep that in mind. And I know as a man, what I'm saying is probably making you feel good. You're probably like, all right, I'll do it. Yeah, it does. Yeah, which kind of points to the order. It kind of points to what you're called to do.

But keep that in mind when the, you know, the you know what hits the fan. Say, all right, I'm responsible for this. This is my company. Right. Have lots of sex too, Matt. It's hard to be fighting with each other if you're having sex all the time too.

That's my last piece for you. In the middle of arguing? Yeah. Adam said we gotta do it. I don't know if she'll appreciate it. Make sure your girl hears that. It'll work out. It'll work out.

I promise you. It'll work out. Well, I appreciate the time, guys. All right. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in, bro. Thank you and have a good rest of your guys' day. You got it.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, Doug. Just sorry, but yep. Sorry, Tim. The music duh, duh, just, sorry, but, yep. Sorry, Tim. The music.

No more questions. No, that was the question, I was gonna save it. Yeah, the music that kicks in when they're getting awards. Na na na na na na na. Hey, man, wait, great kid, you know, he's, what is he, 25, 26, asking that question? I mean, yeah, I think Justin said it, right, the fact that he's, the fact that you're already going into it with the

intent of that I think is half the battle. I think that you care and you want to try. There's a stat on that too in regards to like divorce and stuff is that when one of the partners has given up on it, it's like very, very like chances of them, if they just both want to- Contempt is huge. Oh, that's a huge percentage. If they just both want to, it's like a huge, huge success.

So he'll be all right. Our next caller is Kuvish from Canada. Kuvish, what's happening? How you doing, man? What's up? Hello, how's it going, guys? Good. All right, we're good.

All right, I'll jump into my question and then I'll add on some more information because I realized I didn't put everything in there. So if you don't mind, I'll just jump into it. Okay, get it. All right. So first of all, hello. I'll call you guys like Master Yoda's because there's so much knowledge I'm getting from you.

I've been a big fan listener for the past three years when I discovered you guys right around COVID. And since then, I've been applying a bunch of the stuff you guys have been putting into on the podcast. And it's really changed a lot of how I've been seeing things in terms of sports and my own health. Background of who I am, I'm 28 years old, currently 235 pounds, six, four male,

living in Montreal, Quebec. So here, obviously the weather does play a big role on how things go in terms of like working on indoors or outdoors in all the sports I do. Early 2015, I saw university and got into weightlifting a bit more, more for pure power, but also discovered beer. So there was a big unfortunate muscle loss and weight gain coming from that. and weight gain coming from that. And I did put my fitness aside, got all the way to 285 pounds and I was unfit. I was still big but somewhat more by person.

Moving forward to 2021, I wanted to get my groove back, bring back the good old days of me being fit. But during that time gyms were closed, very limited for COVID again. So I decided to start running, not with the goal of losing weight. It kind of played a role a little bit in there, but just to move around. That was the only thing which was allowed during that time. I invested into some resistance cables and used that for the whole year just to do some small trigger sessions just to keep, you know, my muscle activated. Later that year, even like motor was like late 2022, something, gyms were open again, and I got to play around with weights. And I like being outdoors and running

and challenge myself to do a half marathon, and somehow discovered that I like running quite a lot and started doing OCR races. So the Spartan races and all, from 2021 up until 2024. So I had a pretty heavy calendar of doing like four to five races at least per year. And during that time I was somehow able to keep a balance between my weightlifting and running for fun. But now I wanna push myself more to perform better. During my time when I was weightlifting,

I had my peak lifts for the squat. I did 365, I did 375 pounds on the deadlift, 75 pounds for each dumbbell for shoulder press and 210 on the bench press. Currently, I'm aiming to be more like a functional athlete. Still want to be able to do heavy lifts. I don't feel like I need to hit PLs every time, but I still want to be able to do heavy lifts. I don't feel like I need to hit PLs every time, but I still want to be able to run an eight-minute mile. For my half marathons, I'm also training right now for half-hour events, so it's a lot of mixed cardio, let's say, events.

I also got into trail running and even more doing ultra running. So I really appreciate that environment of trail running. And I kind of want to push the barrier of being the strong and big feet dude, but still able to run on trails. So that is the challenge which I wanna keep giving myself. I am also a firm believer that working out and muscle development can only help my body

by protecting it and making me stronger, but somehow still need to be able to be fast on my feet for a long duration. So this kind of gives the conflicting message between building muscle versus being light. To complement all of that, right now, I'm currently working with a coach and I've been training for a half hour man, which is going to be in four weeks. I've been training since December. However, you guys must definitely know with all your past clients that training for a half hour a minute is no easy feat. I'm training around 12 to 15 hours per week. And it's a lot of cardio, a lot of biking, swimming, running. In all of that, I have one hour of full body workout.

That's the most I do in terms of just like, I do a lot of cardio, I do a lot of cardio, a lot of biking, swimming, running. In all of that, I have one hour of full body workout. That's the most I do in terms of just like muscle preservation. Am I wrong for doing something like that? Am I wrong for aiming to be like a functional athlete, still keeping, you know, keeping like a good shape, but being able to be performing in those kind of events like a half hour man. Do I need to have an in-season and off-season training? That's where I kind of have a lot of questioning. And I tried doing mass 15. It worked out quite well for the first four weeks when I started training for my half Ironman, but at a certain point I was kind of running short of, you know, just time to breathe.

Yeah, and have like more information on my nutrition if you guys need that. Yeah, well, I mean, okay. Yes, you should have an in-season and off-season training always, especially if you're competing at that level. Half Ironmans are, I mean it's a high level of performance. You know, look at it this way. If you look at your whole year, you

should have a short in season that is maybe 12 weeks and then the rest should kind of be off season feeling good. So it's like a sprint, think of a run, right? You have short sprints but long duration times of just kind of cruising. That's what your training should look like. If you're having fun and you feel good and your performance is improving, then you're doing a good job. And there's nothing with focusing more on endurance,

sometimes, and other times focusing more on strength. The mistake that you'll make, that people often make like you, is they try to improve everything at the same time. Converge everything together. That's when you're gonna be challenged. That's when you're gonna run into problems. It's like, I wanna get at 30 pounds to my bench.

I also wanna improve my marathon time. I also wanna get better at pull ups. I also, it's like, if you can't do everything all at the same time. So, put, you know, make your goals more specific in the sense that right now it's it's Ironman training. If I'm improving in my performance for Ironman, then I'm moving in the right direction. Don't try to also build muscle at the same time though. That'll spell the problem. There's a big difference between a buff

jackdude that can run a sub eight-minute mile and being an ultra marathon runner and OCR guy. I mean, there's, they're very, very different goals. Like you could totally be a buff guy and run a sub seven minute mile. You could absolutely do that. But it's the training for Ironman and ultra marathon running and that type of volume, uh, you're, you're trying to also lift a lot of weights. You're putting yourself at risk injury wise. type of volume, you're trying to also lift a lot of weights.

You're putting yourself at risk injury-wise. I think the MAPS-15 protocol is probably the better protocol for you if you're gonna be doing all that running, and that's probably going to preserve the most amount of muscle, but you're certainly not gonna build during that process. And if you try to, you'll run into problems. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I've trained a few people that have done half Ironmans and full Ironmans, and the strength training leading up to the competition is so minimal. Minimal. It's extremely minimal. Probably six weeks out, we're doing correctional exercise and that's it. We're not doing a bunch of lifts.

Before that, it's once a week, maybe 35 to 45 minutes of strength training, because the volume of training that you're putting on your body, any more than that, you start to see reductions in performance. That's where, yeah, I mean, if you do have your off season where you could block that out and you could do one to three months of just like solid focus on strength training that's gonna carry you as long as you do that 15 protocol and the preservation of that

for muscles great so that will carry you pretty far but if you can actually carve that out specifically so your body it you know it's gonna adapt the best to specificity so if you can really isolate that and then maintain that, carrying you in and time it out. So now to those other focuses with endurance training leading up into the event is going to be ideal. Yeah, Kuvish, for the rest of your life, if this is the kind of stuff you enjoy,

where you just like feeling like you could do a lot of things, which I could totally see, I could totally get why somebody would like that, then the best approach, generally speaking, is to, like what Justin's saying, I'm gonna train for strength, and then now I'm gonna start working a little more on endurance, and so what happens, and now I'm working on a little bit mobility, what happens is the other goals take a back seat. They become supportive role to improve the main goal.

So if my goal is endurance, I'm gonna use strength training to prevent injury. If I'm trying to train for strength, I'm gonna use endurance training to improve my strength training, maybe improve my endurance for higher numbers of reps, that kind of thing. And you just move in and out.

You move in and out of that kind of stuff. You don't stay anywhere for too long, and that'll give you, that'll reduce the risk of over-training, reduce the risk of injury, and give you a lot of all of it. Do you take breaks on the running, or are you pretty much year-round doing runs every week? I mean, the off-season, pretty much my in-season is pretty, because in in Quebec you can only go

outside as of like mid-May up until like mid-October so that's where I'd be like running way more outside between mid-October all the way to like the next year of mid-May. I have like, I still run a little bit to maintain that cardiovascular strength or like cardiovascular capacity that I've built. So probably doing like one or two runs per week, but it's nothing like, I'm not, I'm not doing like two or three hours of running during that time. I'm just like doing at least like, you know, two 30 minute outings, uh, at most. Um, but it's, it kind of fits with what you guys said of like having that period, um, to just build a strength that might support my body

For this season. I love that if you're only doing if you have what was that six five six months or so I don't do the math. You have five six months of only Two thirty minute runs a week you could absolutely that could be your muscle building time and you're very focused on a week, you could absolutely, that could be your muscle building time. And you're very focused on building muscle during that time. And that's where you're running a more traditional maps, anabolic type program or maps performance, which is probably going to be more supportive and conducive for what you're trying to do. I'd run that.

And then when you get it in season, you're barely doing any, uh, with strength training, it's more like a map 15 protocol or like a one day a week from mass performance, or even when you get closer and you're running sorts of scale doing like mobility days from performance, like what Sal was talking about. So with a schedule like that, you could absolutely do it. Just don't do them both at the same time. That's where you get screwed. Yeah. I was kind of like thinking of, because currently I still have like Maps 15, I've been using it, It's done this job quite well, but

I haven't had the time or which opportunity to look into what's the difference between mass 15 and mass 15 performance Because I think probably must 15 performance might fit better. My goals on the long term. It would yeah Yeah I like I like mass 15 performance. I also like performance. So during the offseason You're running maps performance your strength. That's your strength training And then what you could do is go down to one day a week when the running starts to pick up when the season begins And then eventually scale all the way down to just mobility days once you get really in the thick of running and that would be perfect That's good. Yeah,

yeah because it kind of works kind of work because that that was the general idea I had in mind of how I should be splitting my my in-season off-season and kind of like planning my goals around it. I just kind of like needed someone to uh you know just anchor that that same uh point into my mind. Yeah have fun with all of it and be and in really Be specific with your goal and use the other stuff to support the specific goal and go in and out of them But have fun. So once it starts to feel like I'm fried It's like it's taken away from the quality of my life And you know, I get that when you're in season and you're training really hard, but most of the time you shouldn't feel that way Sounds good. You got it man. Do you have 15 performance? No I don't have 15

performance. Alright we'll send that to you. Cheers. Thank you. That's a good question. I think it's a he's got the right idea. Big dude six what was he six? Yeah five six four six four two thirty five doing all that. Yeah yeah. I mean I think that's great great I mean ideally speaking what the advice we're giving him would be the probably healthiest way for most people to train It just doesn't work that way because you know, we all have our favorites and yeah Always get gravitate towards what we need you guys hit it The number one mistake that guys like this do is or girls is trying to do both. They want everything Yeah at the same time and then you get none of it because you're you're pushing the weights too much while simultaneously pushing the runs like this do is or girls is trying to do both. They want everything. Yeah.

At the same time. And then you get none of it because you're pushing the weights too much while simultaneously pushing the runs too much. You just and I like that. That's a good little season right there. Yeah. When it's out, when it's sunny outside and he can run outside, that's when he ramps up his, you know, ultra marathon running and his Ironman stuff and like that's great.

And then he has a whole other five, six months where he can be. The weights when it's cold. Yeah. I like that. Our next caller is Kirsten from South Africa. Hello Kirsten. Hello. How you doing? Hey guys, how are you all? Good. We're good. How can we help you? Good. Firstly, it's amazing to be on. I'm super excited to chat to you guys. So thank you so much. Please excuse me. it is quarter past seven at night, so it's after dinner and shower time, so in my PJs. Yeah, no worries. I'm going to read my question nonetheless. I did write in about a month and a half ago, so just a couple of things have changed, so I will just update as I go. So basically, I'm in desperate need of some help and some direction.

I've been listening to you guys for just over a year and finally decided to reach out for some guidance. I am 35, 165 centimeters and weigh 59 kilos, which is about 130 pounds. I eat now 1,930 calories per day and get a minimum of about 150 to 160 grams of protein. I usually train, well, now six days a week and it's kind of separated by glutes and hams, back and bars, quads and calves, shoulders and then another shoulders and triceps day because I'm really focusing on my arms as I'm quite bottom, not too bottom heavy but I've got strong legs. I was a dancer. I get 10,000 steps in every day. I was cycling 20 minutes, three times a week, but

I've cut the cardio out completely. As I'm currently healing from a meniscus tear. I've been weight training for about three years, and I know my way around the gym, but I don't look like I train. I struggle with this layer of body fat that I just can't seem to get rid of. I have two injuries that are limiting me with TFCC reconstruction in my right wrist that was repaired in July last year and I'm currently healing from a meniscus tear and cartilage debris in my left knee, which I'm now currently going for the blood plasma injections to help speed up recovery. I've been advised against deep squats and forward lunges going

forward, as this is my second knee surgery in 10 years. I'm at a complete loss right now, and I'm struggling to navigate my training around these injuries. I'm putting in all the hard work and battling to see the results. I want to look fit, I want to be lean, and I want to have my body to have some shape, but I'm just not sure which direction to go in and that's why I'm reaching out to you guys. Yeah, thank you. I have the answers. It's going to be tough though, but let me ask you more questions. Tell me about your lifestyle. You married kids?

What's changed? What's your job like? questions. Tell me about your lifestyle. You married kids. What's your job like? So I'm married. I don't have kids. I've got two golden retrievers that keep me busy. I work for quite a large fashion brand which I've actually just changed roles. I've got a promotion so looking after seven countries so it is quite stressful but it's great and I love it. So it is a bit of a desk job, but hybrid working. So I do try and move as much as I can. I do have a walking pad at home, so that comes in super useful. And I'm pretty much a bit of an energizer bunny.

I can't really sit still for too long. So I honestly try and get out as much as I can. I love being in the gym. It's really my safe space because I can't I used to run. I can't do that now with my knees. So the gyms really become like a haven for me where friends are. And you know, my husband also trains with me. So it's really just my own space that it's time where I can switch off and just allow it to be my own. So yeah, that's really me. Yeah. I already know that. Yeah, we've trained a lot of people like you.

So I can give you, okay, do you really want? The answer is simple, it's difficult for you to do. Do you really want to see incredible results? I really do, that's why I'm calling. Okay, what I'm gonna tell you to do is gonna be really hard. But it's gonna work, so. You're gonna tell me to do maths 15. I'm gonna tell you to work out way less and eat more.

Way less. Yeah, 100%. And look, here's, okay, background of a dancer, so you just know how to overtrain, that's what dancers do. High performing job, I don't like to sit still, I've got all these injuries that have been happening, I'm strength training five days a week,

I can tell you how many steps that take a day, I put a walking pad so I can always move. You're like overtrained and underfed, and you've probably been that way for a long time Which is probably why you're you're suffering from those injuries for sure Yeah, I knew that before you told us what you did for work And then the type of personality you have and then when you do that, it just tipped it over for sure Yeah, it was probably looking like that before that advice it you just confirmed it for sure If you're the person who can't sit still

and you admit that you have a high stress job, everything we've listed, it's all stress. And you're also low calorie, especially for that much activity and movement and that high of a stress job. So in the context of low calorie and all those things, you're just overstressed. And your body's trying to tell you. It's obviously screaming at you for the last 10 years, it's too much, enough to where you've got an injury twice, forcing you to slow down. And so, yeah, the advice looks like

MAPS-15 and more food, or MAPS-antibolic one day or two day a week and more food. And that's what it looks like. I think your best bet, and I'll tell you what to experience, just so you, or what you're going to experience, just so you can, as it happens, if you take our advice, you're like,

okay, he told me this, what happened? I'd like to see you bump your calories 200 calories. I'd like to see you follow MAPS 15 as it's laid out. No modifications, don't add exercises, don't make, don't try to make up for it by beating the crap out of yourself with the exercises that are listed. Do it as it's laid out.

Continue to monitor your steps and what you'll feel first off is an increase in energy. You'll get better sleep, libido will improve. You're gonna get more mental sharpness. And then you're going, and stronger, you're gonna see strength gains. And then you're gonna be very tempted to push it. And then you're gonna say, all right, let's go,

but don't do it. So, and you need to stay here probably for three months minimum, okay, minimum. And you're gonna see some benefits. And don't weigh yourself. That's gonna mess with your head really bad. Throw your scale away, and just focus on your strength in the gym.

Now, if you have extra time on your hands, which you will, because you're spending so much time working out, then do something else that doesn't involve working out. You could walk more, you could read, you know, stretch, but nothing that's a workout. And this is going to change your body. This will change your body, but it's really most importantly, it's going to change the relationship you have with fitness. It's going to break those chains that are keeping you kind of where you're at with this relationship with workouts. Yeah.

I feel, yeah, it's super difficult because, you know, that the gym has really become such a haven for me and like an outlet because I don't, you know, I don't really drink alcohol. I don't really do anything else. So that's, that's my outlet, which is, I think this it's really like, got such a hold over me. And I was even worse training. I was training six, seven days a week. I was adding an extra cardio on top of it. And I've actually kind of already scaled back. My calories were super low. And then I actually got a, uh, an online coach and, and he bumped my

calories up to, to one nine and shocker. My waist started coming down. Um, but that was, that was it. Nothing really else is budgeting. My waist has come down about three centimeters in five weeks. Um, but, and I'm eating more. Um, I'm struggling a bit. So he's asked to increase my fat as well

because my fat was super, super low. What was your fat at? Oh yeah. So my fat intake used to be about 50 grams today. It's now at about 60, between 60 and 70. Still too low. Do you have a regular cycle? Is your, are you, do you have a regular period?

No, so I've recently gone off the oral contraceptive, so October last year, and I've only had one cycle since then. Kristen, you are terribly overtrained, right? And you're functioning because you're so disciplined, and you've got this attitude that I can make it happen. You know, it's interesting what you're saying about your workout, how it's a safe haven. What happens when we have a bad relationship with something

is we can very easily justify it, and this is what encourages or maintains the bad relationship. So what you're gonna have to do with this is stop weighing and stop measuring yourself. The only thing you can track is your strength, because strength moving up, in your case, is gonna be a very positive sign.

Go up to 2,000 calories a day and follow Mass 15 and just do that, just do that. And then what we're gonna do, Kirsten, is I'm gonna have you back on the show in three months after the program is up so you can check in with us. And part of the reason why I'm doing that is to give you some accountability because you're gonna come back on in three months

and you tell me that you modified it, I'm gonna be very upset with you. So you're gonna come back on, we're gonna talk all about it, and what I'm gonna hear from you is like, oh my God, everything's so much better, I feel so much better, I feel so much stronger, I got my period, I'm sleeping better,

like this is so incredible, I didn't believe it, I can't believe what's happening. That's what we're gonna hear if you follow our advice, but it's very clear what's happening right now. Yeah, it's very, very simple yet very difficult to do. So the advice is very simple, okay? I feel like to ask somebody to do less is normally a simple ask, right?

Because we're not asking you to go do more, do less, but very hard for somebody like you to do. So yeah, I'm with Sal. I like the idea of letting you know that we're going to put you back on the show in three months for a bit of accountability to listen to us. But yeah, this is- No, I need that.

It's solvable. This is solvable and we can get there and you're heading the right direction, so that's very good. So you're moving in the right direction. You just gotta move a lot more in that direction. Are you still working with the coach, the online coach? Yes.

And his training is intense. It's six days a week I'm spending minimum an hour and so hour and a half in the gym I'd love to have one. I'd love to have one of my trainers call you. Yeah, that's way too much I'd love to have one of my trainers call you that's works for us You know I got to tell you to that this nerd the energy that you feel where you're like, I can't sit down That's called nervous energy, that's cortisol energy.

So your cortisol levels are probably elevated all the time. Now what'll follow if you continue down this path is a crash in cortisol and extreme fatigue. Or more injuries. And injuries and all that stuff, right? But what you're feeling is this nervous, like I can't sit still, you know, type of deal? That's right.

That's just, yeah, you've got cortisol and you've got all the stress hormones keeping you going right now because your body's so overstressed. But if you take our advice, it's gonna be life-changing. It's gonna be life-changing for so many different reasons, but especially the one that you're valuing, which is what my body changed, definitely, absolutely.

Okay, because I mean, that's, I can't sit still for two seconds. We get into bed at night to watch a movie and I'm on my phone and I'm checking this and I'm up and I'm down. I really, really struggle to switch off and to relax. So yeah, I had a feeling this is where you guys were gonna send me, but I need the accountability,

so I really do appreciate that. Good, we'll have you back on. We're gonna have you back on and we'll follow up with you. And I can't wait to see just how much you enjoy the progress. Amazing, amazing. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you very much. You got it, and we'll send you mass to Fene

if you don't got it. Fantastic, I don't have it. No, I don't. All right, thanks for calling in. So that was really great. You got it. Thank you so much guys, thank you. Keep long, bye. You know it's funny, people listening,

we've trained so many, let's take an avatar. She's like the exact avatar. Before she, I knew where you were. I would've kept going with that. No, I'm glad you asked, cause I already know who she is. Let's hear her confirm it You know and then she was like oh, yeah

This is and then as she continues to talk is just more and more and it was like piled Oh, yeah, and by the way 2,000 calories is just where she's like the next jump I'd like to see her at the end of three months up to 25 26 Yeah, 25 26 100% and she's just gonna feel so different. Hormones will get more balanced. Each step she takes in that direction. And she's young enough where she should respond really well. Imagine this, I mean, this is so common that people get here, and how frustrating this is

to be putting in this much work and restricting this many calories, and then to say things like, I just wanna feel like I work out. And also, again, Like that is crazy. And your head on the wall. And just to give people a little bit of,

like a different example so they understand, imagine talking to a friend who has an abusive spouse and they're talking about the abuse and then they follow it up with, but you know, we're together and they show up. But I love them. And some guys are nice. You're like, listen, that's what she's saying.

It's workout. Yes, my CD flex. I love them. I'm putting all this work in, I'm getting no results, I'm injuring myself, but it's my safe haven. Like that is a unhealthy relationship. He's beating you, get out. That's just it, and you keep coming back,

and you got it, and at least she's moving in the right direction. She's moving in the right direction. It's just, that's the next hard thing, is that someone like this feels like, okay, I did this, now can I start doing more? Now can I start like, it's like, no, we have a long ways to go still.

So. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano. Adam's at Mind Pump. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy,

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