Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2616: Muscle Building Secrets from Olympic Lifters, Powerlifters, & Bodybuilders & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: June 11, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Muscle-building secrets from Olympic lifters, powerlifters, and bodybuilders. (2:10) We are on the brink of the magic pill. (23:14) The health benefits of polyphenols. (42:12) Justin is THAT guy. (44:15) Embracing the unknown with your kids. (50:58) The instant, visible effects of using red-light therapy. (53:35) Customer service hack. (56:11) #ListenerLive question #1 – How should I go about a body recomposition to gain muscle mass and, more importantly, lose body fat without having to gain body fat FIRST? (1:03:04) #ListenerLive question #2 – Is there a natural way to get rid of my ‘mom’ pouch? (1:11:33) #ListenerLive question #3 – What is the relationship between adaptation and overtraining? (1:24:20) #ListenerLive question #4 – Why can't I lose body fat? (1:33:39) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off** Visit Joovv for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP to get $50 off your first purchase. ** June Special: Shredded Summer Bundle or Bikini Bundle 50% off! ** Code JUNE50 at checkout ** Mind Pump #2180: Is Powerlifting Beneficial for Women? Mind Pump #2265: Why Powerlifting is Better Than Bodybuilding Myostatin/Activin Receptor Ligands in Muscle and the Development Status of Attenuating Drugs Dr. Mike Israetel’s Beloved MUSCLE DRUGS: A Deep Dive & A Dark Warning Mind Pump #2595: Mike Israetel Unplugged (Explicit Content) The Immunomodulatory and Anti-Inflammatory Role of Polyphenols What Are Polyphenols? Benefits and Foods  Visit Luminose by Entera for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MPM at checkout for 10% off their order or 10% off their first month of a subscribe-and-save. Father's Day Special (June 15), 20% off all individual products. The big ticket item is the Folitin Starter Kit, (3 Folitn, 1 Shampoo, 1 Conditioner, and a scalp massager) at 20% off of the regular price of $750! Because we don't usually discount bundles, but we are doing that for this one bundle for Father's Day. ** Mind Pump #2530: Why All Women Should Take Creatine Mind Pump #2257: Why Hitting Fitness Goals is a Bad Idea Mind Pump Group Coaching Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Michael Israetel (@drmikeisraetel) Instagram  

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T-shirt time! And it's t-shirt time. Oh shit Dylan, you know my favorite time of the week. Yeehaw! This week we have two winners, one Apple podcast and one from Facebook. The Apple podcast winner is BNTYL85 and for Facebook the winner is Robert Weissman. To claim your free t-shirt send the name I just read as well as your t-shirt size and shipping address to iTunes at mindpointmedia.com and we'll get that shirt right out to you. We're gonna teach you some

secrets of muscle building as taught by the best people in the strength training world. These are wizards. You ready? We're going to talk about the secrets of Olympic lifters, power lifters, and bodybuilders, but we're also going to talk about some of the weaknesses. Stay tuned. You're going to learn some stuff. We're going to simulate a fight with them at the end? Yeah, no. No. This will be cool. No, this is cool because all three of those, bodybuilders, powerlifters, Olympic lifters, these are like the, I would say have the most consistent. Influence.

Decades old programming methodology, tradition and culture that has been geared around what makes them good at what they do. And I think the average person who doesn't wanna be an Olympic lifter or power lifter or bodybuilder, just wants to get fit, look good, whatever, you can learn from each of these disciplines and apply what you learn from them to your own workouts and get the best results you've ever had

in your entire life. And there's a lot to learn here, so let's do this. Some of the fittest, smartest people in the space that I know have dabbled in all of it. That's right. You know, when you, because there's something, one of the worst things that we can all do is get stuck for, this is for,

Vitalize just one. Get stuck in a cult, you know, of one, right? Just like, I'm a bodybuilder, I'm just a powerlifter. And just that ideology is the only one that you apply to your health and fitness journey. And there's nothing wrong with having periods of time where maybe you identify as one of those because you're focused on that way of training,

that's what you wanna learn. But a much healthier approach towards your journey would be to take some of the best things that all of them have to offer, instead of being so dogmatic about a single approach, which is what seems to happen. It tends to be a either or. It's, you either agree with the way we train or you don't. And it's like your camp versus my camp. with the way we train or you don't and it's like your camp versus my camp and the truth is there's lots to learn from all of these groups and so I love having discussions like this because you always encourage people to to peer into all these different modalities. This conversation is very much like the

conversation in the early 90s around martial arts. This is what the this is when the Ultimate Fighting Championship came onto the scene and before the UFC there was always a which martial art is better, karate or kung fu or boxing or judo or whatever. Random Meketo guy. Yeah and what mixed martial arts showed us over time, because that's what happens right, over, the athletes and the fighters became better and better and better, and what you find now is they take the best of each, and the person who can apply the best of each is typically the best fighter.

So that's what we're trying to do here. Isn't that, I mean, isn't that the actual birth of what MMA is? That's right. Because it started off as ultimate fighter. That's right. It was always presented as who's the ultimate fighter. That's right, because it started off as ultimate fighter. That's right. It was it was always presented as who's the ultimate fighter and over time it completely birthed a

Category that many people under the age of 30 aren't aware of the color MMA. Yeah, I didn't exist before that is gladiator Yeah, we're we're kids MMA wasn't a thing. No, it wasn't a thing at all, and it was the popularity of the ultimate fighter that morphed this MMA fighter. And now it's just accepted that MMA is a sport or a skill in itself. Nobody says don't learn the groundwork. Nobody says don't learn punching, don't learn kicking, don't learn throws.

Everybody's like, no, all of it's valuable. If you learn all of it, then you're going to be great at defending yourself. When it comes to strength training, the best disciplines, there's a lot of strength training disciplines, but the ones that have the longest pedigree, the ones that have competitions, the ones that have applied the most experience slash science, are bodybuilding, powerlifting, Olympic lifting. And you can learn, and there's strengths and weaknesses of each, that's what we're gonna talk about. Just for fun, this is totally kind of,

it's not off-subject, it's within what you're talking about, but you're just making me think, because there's obviously people that are like, what about our group, right, that Phil's left out that they're CrossFit? Yes. That's the obvious one. I didn't include them. Yeah. This is a new step to me.

So, just like when you talked about Ultimate Fighter, there were like, you know, what about Tae Kwon Do? You know what I'm saying? So, what would you say in Ultimate Fighting are the big ones? Oh, Muay Thai, Muay Thai, wrestling, jujitsu, boxing, judo maybe a little. Judo, those are the best ones. But they throw in, man, the better they get,

they throw in elements of all kinds of different martial arts. Yeah. Because there's value in all these different techniques. Now by the way, I know I joked about CrossFit, but the truth is CrossFit I think attempted to do this. They really did. That's why they.

They attempted to combine all the benefits of each and we joke because their programming, many times it's just terrible. Although I have seen good CrossFit programming that is able to combine these because there is a specific way to train for each one. Okay, that must be addressed too because there are 100% there are very intelligent coaches

that understand programming. But then it's no longer CrossFit. Just to be clear. understand programming, but then it's no longer CrossFit. Just to be clear. All right, let's get into this. Now you're more sports specific, which is a different subject. Let's start with Olympic lifting.

Olympic lifting is the most internationally sanctioned, regulated, and probably scientifically studied form of strength training. The benefits of Olympic lifting are profound. There is no form of strength training that'll get you to generate power like Olympic lifting. In fact, athletes use Olympic lifting techniques precisely to improve their power because power is the ultimate form of strength. Power is the kind of strength that shows up in the real world in most cases.

Power and athleticism. In fact, if you had to pick a group of strength training athletes out of bodybuilders, powerlifters, Olympic lifters, and you had them all compete in athletic events, the Olympic lifters would probably win. Oh yeah. They would probably win. Is that even an argument? You know, some people may argue it, but Olympic lifters are the guys. They're so explosive.

They can do back flips, and they don't even practice them because they're so explosive. That's the thing. It's about acceleration, and you don't really get that same focus with those other two. Well, acceleration, speed, control. Also, I would even, is it dare I say, the most attention

to detail? The most technical. Oh yeah. I mean, the attention to detail in a movement because the slightest bit of being off risks, injuries and or leaked power and to get optimal power. Let's just say they maximize physics. They do. And I would also say, by the way, translates very well to all sports. That's right. Like if you, if you can maximize physics, that's what sports really is.

And the ability to be able to look at a movement pattern that's common within a sport and go like, Oh, I can get good at that and practice it. That translates really well. They also have of all the strength training athletes the best mobility. Period. End of story. Why Olympic lifts require a tremendous amount of mobility. Like just a snatch or an overhead squat alone kind of hits everything. You need to have real good stability and mobility. Even catching a super heavy power clean a lot of times. You have to get so low. Your ass is like on the ground.

That's right. Now what are the negatives? Well actually one of the negatives is one of its strengths. You just said it, it's super technical. That also makes it one of the challenges. In order to be able to do Olympic lifts, it takes a long time just to be able to do it with a broomstick.

Very, very, very high as far as an entry level. Oh yeah. Like your skill level, your mobility, the amount of practice it takes. It's like, you would never, none of us would ever take somebody who's beginning their fitness journey and be like, let's go learn Olympic lifting first.

No. Right? You wouldn't. So that's a major drawback when you talk about the general population because the requirements to even be able to practice it and do it, although you bring up the point of the broomstick, of course we can regress a lot, but it's like that doesn't make sense when you have somebody who's just entering into fitness where the other ones I could easily see how, oh we could

start right away. Yeah, start right here. Right, like I'll give you an example. I strength train all the time, I do all the major lifts, relatively fit. If I were today to try to become, to try to do Olympic lifting, it would take me minimum six months, minimum, probably more like a year before I could do them with any real power

because they're so technical and I don't practice them. And that's me, you take the average person, good luck. So that's one of the big cons to Olympic lifting. Then we get to power lifting. So power lifting is the sport where you're competing to see how much weight you can lift in the bench press, deadlift, and squat.

Now what's one of the pros of powerlifting? It gives you maximal strength very quickly. Maximal strength is the grinding type of strength. It's lifting something heavy. You could lift a house. Yes, and it makes you really strong. Like you take somebody and you have them train powerlifting, they're gonna get really strong.

They'll get stronger with that kind of strength than powerlifting they will with any other form. And arguably pack on the most amount of muscle. General muscle, you're gonna build a lot. Typically. You're gonna build a lot with powerlifting. The other thing with powerlifting that I love, which is a strength,

which I also think is a strength of Olympic lifting, is that they have great programming. Strength sports that compete in objective ways, bodybuilding's not objective. Bodybuilding's subjective. You get judged on how you look. Powerlifting, you lift more weight or you don't. This means their programming over the last eight decades

has become very good. Very little room for error. Yeah, in fact, if you're a coach or a trainer, if you're a personal trainer and you wanna learn how to do great programming for your everyday clients, it would really help you to study powerlifting programming. Bodybuilding programming, a lot of it is just all over the place.

It's not as scientific as powerlifting or Olympic lifts. I would, it's not even close. Not even close. I've competed with people with championships, physiques, but then looked at their programming and went, oh my God. What are you doing? Yeah, and that just, that highlight, I mean obviously they're doing a lot of other things right,

primarily nutrition, right, and just highlights how important, like that's their strength I'm sure you're gonna get to, like the bodybuilders, detail to maximizing nutrition because they're trying, the outcome is an aesthetic thing, huge advantage on that side. Yes, yes yes and one of the ways I used to love to use powerlifting for my everyday clients was typically for women who had a history of chronic dieting and had a bad relationship with food and the scale.

Great focus. This is a great segue for them. They would come hire me, they're focused on the scale, they've over dieted and then I go here's we're gonna do we're gonna throw the scale away We're just gonna get strong and we're gonna focus on the bench press deadlift and squat and we're just gonna place our focus there and they would make great aesthetic changes because of the Focus of power lifting which was away from the scale and all we focus on now strong you can get I would have her focus I would make the argument that's what links it one of its greatest strengths, yet also one of its greatest weaknesses.

One of its greatest weaknesses is that you could get be a championship powerlifter, not be in the best of shape. You mean, sure, strong-wise, that type of shape, but as far as if your desired outcome was sculpting or getting fit or losing body fat, this isn't the ideal shape. It's more the overall movement of shape, but as far as if your desired outcome was sculpting or getting fit or losing body fat, this isn't the ideal shape. It's more the overall movement of it.

So it's a synchronization of like all your muscles working together. And then we start parsing that out with bodybuilding. But what I love about powerlifting, it stretches your capacity to recruit muscle fibers. There's nothing else that you could train that will compare that. It just maximizes your ultimate potential of recruitment, which then bleeds into any other pursuit. Empowerlifting is very empowering.

Again, for that category of clients, I was talking about those women, this makes them feel good being strong, which is a great lesson to learn when you start strength training and you're afraid of, oh God, if I don't lose weight, or I've always need to be skinny type of deal, it's great. Now, one of the big cons of powerlifting is the injury risk.

Mainly because you're only focused on getting stronger, and also because the movements are limited. It's great to get strong at the deadlift, the squat, and the bench press, but do that long enough and injury risk goes up. All bilateral, all sagittal plane. Yeah, you're so strong in those movements now for your body weight, but you don't have good

lateral stability, you don't have good unilateral stability, you're not rotating, you're not doing it like a wide breadth of movements, and because you're so focused on the number, you tend to push the number when it might not be appropriate because that tends to be the top focus. And so injury is high with this. It's like a drag car racer, really good at driving a car, really fast in a straight line,

but ask that same driver to go race around the new bring and it's like, okay, a whole different ballgame now. Car flips over. Right, right, totally different ballgame now, but incredible for that straight line power. All right, let's get to bodybuilding. Probably the most influential form of strength training for the general public.

In fact, it was the only one for a long time. Took a long time for powerlifting to influence everyday people, and it took a long time for Olympic lifting to make a dent in regular gyms. I mean, bumper plates didn't exist until recently in everyday gyms. So bodybuilding, very influential.

Bodybuilding, one of the big pros of bodybuilding is its aesthetic effects. It is, bodybuilding, its very nature is to shape and sculpt your body like a sculptor. So powerlifting, Olympic lifting, here's your movements, oh I wanna shape this, who cares, squat more, right? Bodybuilding is like, I wanna focus on this muscle, I wanna focus on that muscle, this is overdeveloped,

this is underdeveloped, I wanna work on the outside of this, I wanna isolate this area. It's very aesthetic focused and literally, it is the best form of exercise for changing the way your body looks This is such a huge advantage because most people that come into the gym and hire a personal trainer want to look different Yes, it's very rare. Yeah, you very rare you get somebody who wants to you get it But and more today than you did say 20 years ago, but very few people come in say I want to be strong

That's all I care about, I just wanna be strong. Most people want to look a certain way, and none of those other modalities are going to teach you the level of nutrition that is required to move your body and change your body in that way. Everything we know about dieting to get lean came from bodybuilding, Period, end of story.

Bodybuilders were way ahead of the curve. You talk about low carb dieting, I remember the 90s. Oh, low carb dieting. They were doing that in the 50s. You talk about carb cycling. You talk about the impact of protein. Everybody knows now, high protein makes a big difference. They were doing this in the 20s.

They were doing this when people said it was dangerous. They were eating high protein. Whole natural foods, bodybuilding. Bodybuilders understand diet for aesthetics better than anybody in the world. Well, just the concept of growing your muscle without increasing your overall mass, just isolating, how can we grow the size of this muscle?

Those other modalities don't focus on that. It's like if anything it's about adding more calories and getting you know more mass so you can you can push more load but yeah bodybuilding is really kind of sifted through all that and isolated. Yeah now bodybuilding is also if you train smart like a bodybuilder, it's safest. It's the safest form of strength training. That's it. Like, if you're in the gym, and you're following bodybuilding methodology,

your risk of injury is really low. Why? Because bodybuilders, the weight on the bar is really just the means to an end. They're looking at balance of development, so they tend to use the largest amount of different exercises. Sometimes this is ridiculous where they make up

weird exercises as a result of it. But you look at like bodybuilding exercises and the list is almost endless. You look at Olympic lifting, powerlifting, it's a very, very short list. They understand that the goal of building muscle is perceived intensity from the body. So it doesn't necessarily mean like powerlifting builds a ton of muscle because you have to lift

up a ton of extra weight. Bodybuilders takes that philosophy and goes like, oh, wait a second, my body just has to think it's lifting a lot of heavy weight and I'll get the same type of results as far as building muscle. Maybe I won't win a powerlifting meeting, I won't be the strongest, but I can add, oh yes, I can build just as much muscle on my body as a powerlifter by making my body think it's lifting as much weight. It's actually the opposite of powerlifting and Olympic lifting from that standpoint. Olympic lifters and powerlifters, how light can I make this weight feel? Bodybuilders, how heavy can I make this weight feel? In fact if I had to pick a risk. It's so much

different. Oh yeah if I had to pick a form... Risk is so much different on all these. Oh yeah, if I had to pick a form of extra strength training methodology to apply to somebody in old age, it would be bodybuilding type of methodology. It would be the one that would be the safest, I would say. So you say like Olympic lifting, highest risk, power lifting, next, and then bodybuilding. Totally. Now what's the con of bodybuilding? Dysmorphia, body dysmorphia. It's focused on how you look. Yeah. Everything's about how you look.

And this can really lead down a dark path because it's all about the mirror, it's all about how I perceive my body, which can be really distorted. Of bodybuilding, powerlifting, and Olympic lifting, I don't think I need to say this, but body dysmorphia is rampant in bodybuilding and it's probably, in comparison, nonexistent.

Not saying it doesn't exist, but in comparison, you typically don't see powerlifters and Olympic lifters stressing over how they look in the mirror. And not only that, but it exacerbates it. So it's like, you have body dysmorphia, woo hoo. Right. So it's like, and a lot of people that may not even have had it, that got into it, ends up developing it because the objective of it is to compare yourself to somebody else, which is the complete opposite advice we give to anybody that you're training is, it's like, don't

compare to other people where the sport of Bible says, we're gonna compare you. Literally what you're doing. We're going to compare you to everybody next to you and it's like, don't compare to other people where the sport of Bible says, we're gonna compare you to everybody next to you. And it's completely subjective to what that judge decides to like, which can be totally a mindfuck for the average person. This is why this is a very unhealthy approach for the average person to get involved in. Now, some of the principles are incredible for-

Are wonderful. Yeah, are wonderful to teach people, but the sport of it, arguably most dangerous psychologically. Oh, great point. Physical risk low, mental risk very high as a result. Totally. And what's great about what we're saying here, if you're listening, is learn from each of these modalities and you will you can become a mixed martial arts black belt in strength training which will serve you for the rest of your life and if you're a trainer this will make you an incredible coach and trainer because everything we just talked about there is a principle from all of these that you can apply to every client.

And this will make you a wizard in the gym with your clients, make you the best. This is just adding tools to your tool belt and when you get really good, you can pull from each of these modalities at different times with the same person. So you can have a person with a very specific goal that they want to obtain, but you can pull from each of these categories like you know what I can tell this person's like for example Somebody who's like I just want to get lean and fit

But then I recognize that they're becoming too obsessed with the way they look in the mirror Here's where I'm gonna throw them a curveball. We're gonna we're gonna learn we're gonna learn this clean for the next you know six months It's like totally shifting their focus on something else. Being a trainer who understands these and then knowing how to notice the cons of each of them in your client and go like, oh, I see we're heading down this direction. I'm gonna switch gears on my client because I see that.

Man, what a asset for a trainer. Yes, all right, I've been holding this in. I texted Adam this morning about it. In fact, my text to him was like, go buy stock of Regeneron. By the way, we're not financial advisors, so don't listen to me. But I just read, there was a study that just came out

on some of these new drugs that are in the pipeline. They're not approved for use yet. That, guys, we are on the brink of the magic pill. So crazy to think that this, I mean, it used to be a kind of tongue in cheek thing that you used to say as a trainer. Yeah. Like.

Like that'll never exist. No, 100%, I used to say it, not really thinking that it just I just think it I always thought it was impossible I didn't think that we would possibly get here and it sounds like we're some myostatin blocker. Oh This is what I have a study. It's what what's his face. We have a study. I don't Yes, and I wrote down I wrote down the results of this study. So here's what they did, okay? So the study involved four groups of primates, small monkeys, okay? So this is an animal trial, okay?

Now oftentimes this translates to humans. By the way, there are human trials going on as we speak. So, you know. What would you say primates the best example? Animals closest to? This is the closest, yeah. But it comes to muscle and stuff like that. It comes to metabolism and the body and all that stuff.

Now, human studies are going on right now. You rats. I'm gonna go through what the study showed and I'm gonna speculate on what the risks are gonna be of this, but here's what they did. They took four groups of monkeys. Group one is your nothing. They give them nothing.

They're just the natty monkeys, okay? And these monkeys they put them in a calorie deficit, so they put them on a diet Group two they put them on some agglutide. This is ozempic. This is a popular GLP-1. We know what that does Group three was on some agglutide plus a myostatin agglutide plus a myostatin blocking essentially drug. And then group four, they put them on some agglutide, myostatin blocking drug, plus an active in A blocking drug. Now both myostatin and active in A are essentially muscle growth limiters.

They exist in the body and it seems that their primary function is to just put the brakes on how much muscle you can build. So what these drugs do is they essentially block myostatin and actin-manave so now you don't have the brakes on how much muscle you can build. No more governing. Yes, no more governing. Here's what happened to the monkeys.

Now all of the measurements were in grams because they're small. So when I say like they lost this many grams, gained that many grams. Isn't this the beginning of plant of the measurements were in grams because they're small. So when I say they lost this many grams, gained that many grams, isn't this the beginning of Planet of the Apes, bro? This is, just trip off this. So group one on the calorie deficit lost 400 grams of fat and also lost 15 grams of muscle, which isn't bad by the way, it's not a bad ratio.

400, 15, now when you go into calorie deficit, you can expect to lose some muscle because the body tries to adapt to the lower energy intake by pairing things down that tend to burn a lot of energy like muscle. So that's an expected result. 400 grams of fat, 15 grams of muscle. The second group went on somaglutide, okay?

Somag, the somaglutide group lost 700 grams of fat. So almost double. Almost double, but also lost 100 grams. 100 grams of muscle. By the way, somaglutide, GLP1, they don't cause muscle loss. So wait, go back up to the first one. What did they lose muscle-wise? 15.

Oh wow, so more than quadruple of the muscle loss also. Yes, yes, however, they also ate less. Yeah, some agglutin. Of course. That's what, I mean, if you had to translate what that is, is that the calorie deficit was the calorie deficit was much bigger in group two. Right, but that's expected. This is what we see in the data with GLP-1s. You'll lose more body fat, but you're gonna eat a little, you're gonna eat too little. Not to throw you off track right now, just because I wanna step by step as we go through the study to poke holes or point out things, I should say, to the audience.

Had the second group kept the calorie deficit exactly the same as the natural group. They would have lost less muscle. They would have lost less muscle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if they strength trained. I just wanna make that clear, because what someone might be hearing right away

is like, oh my god, this is why GLP-1s are so bad is that... No, we've talked about this a million times. Bump your protein. That's what happened in this study was that what happened was we just let them probably do their thing. They ate less. They ate less. They ate less.

But they lost twice as much, almost twice as much body fat. Right. All right. Here's where it gets interesting. Group three, some agglutide plus myostatin inhibiting or blocking drug. They lost 1,300 grams of fat, okay? They lost a lot more body fat than group one and almost double group two.

Here's how much muscle they lost, you ready? Yeah. 15 grams. They lost almost nothing. Almost nothing. Wow. But lost. All that body fat. Triple, more than triple the body fat of the first group. Wow. Insanity. They lost almost nothing but lost triple,

more than triple the body fat of the first group. Okay, you guys ready where it gets weird? Oh my God, don't tell me someone built why they lost, dude. Here's where it gets weird. How's that possible? No, no, here's where it gets weird. Group four on the GLP-1 plus myostatin inhibiting drug

plus active N-A inhibiting drugiting drug lost 1400 grams of fat. They lost 100 extra grams of fat just from being on those extra drugs. They gained 400 grams of muscle. What? Bro, how is this? And they're not even doing different activity. Bro, help me science this.

Hold on, hold on. How is that even without the extra calories and nutrients? Does that mean, Sal, that there still had to have been periods of time in the cycle there still had to have been periods of time in the, in the cycle that they had to have been from, from momentarily in a surplus? No. Yeah. No, there's no surplus. The drug actually can do that, can actually build muscle because up into this point-

Yes, it can. Up into this point, that's impossible. Okay. Up into this point, just so people know that even when we take a snapshot, I did, I was an example of this with muscle memory working for me, the 30 day test I did, I showed that I actually lost 20 pounds of fat, I also built a couple pounds of muscle. Now what people don't understand is that I didn't actually do that at the exact same time. What really happened in those 30 days was there was moments

when my body was in a calorie deficit and I got max body fat loss and then there was moments when I was in a... excuse me, I did the flip, sorry, I built 20 pounds of muscle and I lost a few pounds of fat, sorry, I misrepresented that. So, but same principles apply. There was moments where I was in a calorie surplus and I built muscle. There was moments in that month where I was in a little bit of a deficit and I did it which would be like the sweet great spot I was. This is like pure calorie deficit all the time pretty much.

Lost more fat and gained, gained as much muscle as the first group lost in body fat from being in a deficit. They built, by the way, little reminder here, little reminder here everybody, none of the monkeys did strength training. Yeah, none of the monkeys did strength training. Yeah. None of the monkeys did strength training.

They're doing different activity ones. They just built hell of muscle and lost body fat at the same time. Here's what's happening. What happens to that person's strength training? Here's what's happening. Oh God, here's what's happening. Those governors, when they're off,

it takes every nutrient, it takes every nutrient and throws it towards muscle, and in fact, it takes every nutrient, it takes every nutrient and throws it towards muscle and in fact, it burns body fat in an attempt to create energy to build muscle. Your body wants to build so much muscle that it's burning and it's taking whatever you're eating. So is that the theory, what's happening? That is the theory.

It totally changes your signal. It's prioritizing building muscle so much that even in the calorie deficit, it's still taking some of those prioritizing them over to building muscle. And so then, which would also just exaggerate the deficit faster because some of those nutrients now are getting prioritized.

That is fascinating. Now here's where you're gonna see some risks. I'm gonna make some predictions. So they die in the wild, jacked. Here's where I'm gonna make some predictions. And I think this will age well. I may be wrong, but I think it'll age well. So they die in the wild jacked. Here's where I'm gonna make some predictions. And I think this will age well. I may be wrong, but I think it'll age well. So let's all mark this, okay?

First off, you gotta ask yourself, why do these inhibitors of muscle exist in the first place? I'll tell you why. You tear your tendons off. Not just that, I don't think it's that, Adam. Oh, really? No, I don't think it's that. I think it's that your body has to take energy

that you consume and it has to run your body. It's gotta run your brain, your car. So this can be dangerous. Yes, this is my mess-up. This can be dangerous because other things shut down because it's prioritizing so much muscle. It's gonna steal nutrients from other parts of your body if your calories are too low.

So here's what I think will happen. By the way, the reason why these drugs are in production and why these pharma companies are now going full bore is because so many people are on GLP-1s and they predict so many more people will be on GLP-1s and one of the risks is muscle loss. So of course they're gonna come out. This is what the pharma industry does.

They come out with a drug, then they come out with a drug that counters the side effects of first drug. Yes, so here's what's gonna happen. This is what I think will age well. I think if this passes, and I did buy stock of the company, so I'm like, if this passes and makes it through trials, it's gonna go crazy. I think what's gonna happen is they're gonna tell people,

if you go on this cocktail of GLP-1 plus myostatin inhibiting plus active inhibiting, you're going to have to really bump your calories. You're going to have to take nutrient dense formula shakes because you're going to become nutrient deficient in hard areas. I actually think you would have to be careful of how much strain training you do. Think about that. If your theory is true, that it's probably work on-

That's just to promote a signal. If it is prioritizing any nutrients over to build muscle without strength training already, and then you send a louder signal to your body that you need more to build more muscle. And you don't have that regulator in place to say, no, no, no, wait a second, we need some for the liver and kidney and heart and brain and some of this other stuff. It's like, no, no, no, wait a second. We need some for the liver and kidney and heart and brain and some of this other stuff. And it's like, no, no, we got to build, we got to build because you're seeing that let's see, you know, it would only make all those things that greater risks so that you would have to modify somebody's level of strength training running some of this. You'd be like, you can't just go bananas. Now, obviously

the guy who the other, the, what you're thinking, I already know. I'll just eat and eat and eat. And that's what I'm sure Mike Isradil was like excited about because he's just like, I'll just fucking feed that shit. You know what I'm saying? But the words becomes dangerous is the GLP-01 just shuts down that appetite. That is the biggest problem that we see. And so you shut somebody's appetite down like that and then you give them these drugs and then they also strength train. If you over strength train, it sounds like you could run into some serious trouble.

You could build muscle at the expense of everything else and I think what they're gonna do, I think what you're gonna see, because what the pharma industry's gonna have to do is. Why would you use the GLP with it? Well, they're gonna have to figure out how to titrate the doses, because what you don't wanna do is you't want to have a bunch of dead,

jacked, ripped people, right? You don't want to have to give these to people, and then people are like, oh my God, I look so great, and then heart failure. Yeah, why even use the semi-lutide in that situation? If every calorie is getting partitioned over to building muscle, at that rate, just let it...

Because the fat loss effects for myostatin and active inhibiting drugs alone is good, but it's not good enough. Like you add GLP-1 and now you're gonna have this crazy effect. I think it's gonna be, I think what's gonna happen is they're gonna give people, they're gonna make nutrient calorie dense shakes for people with this.

They're gonna say, oh hey, twice a day, here's your thousand calorie, 5,000% of everybody's been rolling. New supplement category, bro. New supplement category. New supplement category, for sure. Specific to GLP-1. You need to take this. Now here's where my head goes with this, okay?

Athletes, bodybuilders especially, they don't look at stuff like this and go, oh cool, I'm not gonna do steroids. They're gonna be like, cool, I'm gonna do this and steroids. And I'm gonna do 15,000 calories a day. This is gonna get weird. We're gonna see quarterbacks in the NFL that are 290 pounds shredded.

That's what's gonna happen from this kind of stuff. It's wild. Well, we're gonna see bodybuilders and humans that look like those Whippet dogs. Yeah, dude. That's what you're gonna see. Or that bull, that blue bull or whatever. Wow.

By the way, this will be- Bunch of gorillas. If it passes, you guys, these will be the most blockbuster drugs we've ever heard in your entire life. Did they, because you're predicting, we're predicting all the potential major side effects of this. Did Israel Tell talk about this or did he? No, you know how he is.

Yeah, I know. He gets excited. Side effect free, like oh yeah, I'm Yeah, I know. He gets excited. Side effect free. Like, oh yeah, I'm sorry, I don't think it works that way. And again, what I'm predicting is like nutrient robbing of the rest of the body because like, that's very large. That has to be very dangerous.

I'm just immediately thinking of liver and kidneys. That's what I thought. The biggest, yeah. Liver, kidney, brain. Yeah. How dumb you're gonna get.'s another thing shut down all the ultimate meat head real bro you just get dumber as you get buffer people's faces are gonna get muscular here's here's for this thing here's the other thing I think people need to realize muscle weird place you can build a lot of muscle but that

doesn't mean it works well and is functional because your skill is still important. You still have to teach the muscle how to work. You still have to be able to practice exercises to have that mobility. So you may have a bunch of look good situations. Well, the real muscle bound sort of person, right? At that point, you grow it so fast, like you don't know how to use it. That was my first initial thought was tearing like I just oh man

How many injuries are gonna get people the positive effect a ligament and cartilage? Yeah, I can't if that can't keep up with the rate of muscle building on those people it's like yeah for sure no But I'm again I'm looking at this and I'm like, if this becomes, if this passes, Pandora's Box, dude. Because right now they're in phase two, right? If this passes trials, this is as close as I could imagine to the miracle. To the miracle.

The pill, the pill that we always, you hypothetically or tongue in cheek talked about. By the way, here's what's gonna happen, okay? Okay, this will happen for an earned Physique it's not just that like like people need to know this and I know people listening who don't get it or don't exercise regularly They're just not gonna get it unless they experience it fine. Keep listening anyway You're gonna get a bunch of unhappy fit-looking people. Yeah, because the

99.9% of the benefits you get from fitness as shown by all the data is in how you look. Excuse me, it's not in how you look, it's everything else. How you look is a small percentage of the happiness you get from fitness. Most of it is I'm moving more, the discipline, this thing that I'm doing that's hard, that I'm learning, the health benefits, that's all the benefits.

This small benefit is what people think all the benefit is. Everybody thinks if you look good, that's what makes you happy. That's not the case. People who are fit are happy, and it's not because of the way they look. It has very little to do with that. So I think a lot of people,

and I think we're gonna get to this future dystopia, Adam, that we talk about all the time, where people are gonna have everything they think they want and they're gonna be so depressed, because it's like, what am I gonna? That's what I was just gonna say was that we're solving one problem and then creating another. And so when you pull out the overall happiness,

satisfaction, or problems in our society, it doesn't change, it just, the pie chart shifts. So, rising, depression, suicide, all that stuff, less obese people. You know what I'm saying? Here's an example. I gotta sell my rascal scooter sock. Maybe some people get so jacked at this one.

You know, I'll give you an analogy, okay? Today, because of technology, here's your, this I think illustrates it really well. Because of technology today, we are technically more connected to each other than ever in human history. That's a fact. It's a fact that you're in contact and communication, both real and potential, with more people today

than anyone ever has been in the history of the world. Yet, we are lonelier than ever. Explain that to me. Here's why. It's not real. We'll have less obese people, but more depression. That's right. So it's just like, okay, cool, we've solved that,

but then now our suicide rates and all the other stuff goes. Anxiety and depression. Which I think the next route for pharma, you know what I think this cocktail's gonna include? Happy drugs. I think you're gonna get a cocktail of Look Good and happy drugs and let's see what happens. Oh boy, that's gonna be weird.

It's gonna be. Sounds like a really weird. I mean, the super science person goes, listen, I mean, this is part of evolution. We prune off things that, I mean, this is part of evolution. We, we, yeah, we prune off things that I mean, just say 30 or say 3050 years ago, you know, when we introduced calculators, just 15 or 20 years ago, whenever we introduced, you know, navigation apps, you know, cell phones for phone numbers.

I mean, for the life of you, one of you probably couldn't remember a phone number or direction to get somewhere. And so it's like. What you're highlighting is human nature. All of the stuff that we're gonna do won't change human nature. And so human nature's gonna be challenged

no matter what, no matter what we figure out and solve. Just changes the challenges. This is why I love science fiction, because it's like one of the only things that actually challenges a lot of these thoughts. And it gives you a little bit of a moral, yeah, like a forewarning. But I start to think, I'm like, okay,

well if you can solve, allow people to still build muscle while not really producing activity, like that just creates somebody to travel further, right? Like interstellar travel. Oh, yeah. What? Oh my God, I didn't even think that way. Yeah.

Oh, you know what? So they can maintain muscle mass. No, the first people to go further. They're gonna give myostatin and active in A inhibitor to astronauts. Of course. Those would be the first people. Because they're planning on going to Mars

and I would assume it's like. Wow, great. Moving in that direction. Of course I didn't even think that was. Great connection, Justin. I'm always there, so. Because that is one of the things about space and going in that direction or even living out there.

Oh God, you lose bone. Yeah, there's not enough gravitational force there. Even though they exercise all the time. They lose so much muscle mass and bone mass as a result of it. So science could at least, it will at least prolong that. Wow. So cool, we'll reach Mars. Yeah, we'll get further and realize Earth was better.

This place sucks you guys. There's no good hotels here. I got some studies on polyphenols and their benefit. The reason why I'm doing this is because, or I brought this up, was because I've been trying to use, I go on and off with Organifi's Green Juice, and every time I do, I feel good from it. And the studies on polyphenols benefits, which these are compounds

that are found in high amounts in fruits and vegetables, but especially in the compounds that they use in their green juice. They use the most polyphenol-dense compounds you can think of. Spirellina, the big one. Spirellina, one of them. And so here are the benefits that we have that studies show so you have enhanced immune function improved gut health heart health cholesterol management blood sugar regulation

reduced blood clot risks Neuroprotection improved cognitive function mood regulation and then of course the anti-cancer cognitive function, mood regulation, and then of course the anti-cancer properties. And then there's other stuff like skin health. Like pretty cool, right? All from polyphenols, which one of the challenges, I know this is a challenge for most people, is they just don't eat enough fruits and vegetables. But like Organifide's green juice is a nice second place because it's got all that and it's like a little...

No, I mean since day one we've always been consistent with recommending to people to go through whole foods. The reality of it, I mean when I being honest when I talk about what I if I were someone would ask me to critique my own personal diet where I know I can improve and I consistently not. It's the amount of vegetables that I get into that. Yeah, I'm decent at fruit, I'm very inconsistent with and a lot of that is just personal preference when it comes to prepping food and stuff like that.

It's not the first thing I think of. It isn't, it's just not the top of the priority list, and it should be more of a priority, but I do appreciate things like the green juice because it's an easy way for me to make up for that, even though I know that I'd be better off having a big bowl of broccoli. Totally.

Adam, I wanna talk to you about Justin, because he's so that guy, right? I'm right here, dude. Yeah, I know you are. He's so that guy, bro. So yesterday he comes in for the listeners, and he's got this look on his face that he'll get when he's...

Serious pain. Like something's happening with Justin. By the way, when you can tell something's happening with Justin, it's already Def Con. It's too late. LikeON. We're already there. Like, nuclear wars, you know, start already. And he's like, he has like really bad tooth pain. We get a message in the morning, I need emergency dental surgery, you guys. I can record one episode and then I gotta bounce. So, he takes off. So, all right, tell everybody what

happened, what they found, because then I'm gonna make a point. Yeah, so I had this pain, this dull pain for a long time, but it got really bad. And so I mean, it radiated all the way, like every single tooth in my top right side and then the bottom side and my cheek. And I was just. So your face.

It was excruciating. Yeah. So I was trying to hold it together. I was like swishing some element, you know, salt water while we were answering questions. And obviously I was doing a terrible job answering questions. Cause I was just kind of like, yeah, you like trying to hold it together. Me and everybody. Yeah. And so I took off and then, um, I was had like an hour to drive the holster to meet up with my dentist friend and

so I finally got there and he he looked at it and with the x-rays and saw that there was an infection and He actually was able to take the crown off and saw just pus just Dis disgusting, gross. Like he was in there just sucking it out and it took him a long time to get it all out. And he was, so apparently it was just like really, really poorly, like badly infected.

And so I had that, Ficks also had, it got so bad that my sinus was also infected as a result of that. So the reason why you're that guy, he's that guy, Justin's that guy that goes to the hospital and the doctor's like, you've been having a heart attack for three weeks. Like why did you come in?

That, what you just said, takes a while, bro. I know, yeah. Yeah, no, like going back and feeling how I feel time like oh my god I'm like a totally different human being today. Like I just feel Electric oh my god I don't know how long I've had a really long time Did he estimate or no because even before you know, I have like sensitivity to cold and hot sometimes and even when I'd floss I was like, whoa, and I'd have like gum bleed. I'll do nothing about it. Yeah, I

Got changed my diet or you know I gotta stop eating inflammatory foods and blah blah blah and I would adjust things and then I'd go back to like You know, I'd have like a drink of alcohol and then it just get all infl inflamed again. And I'm like, ah, why did I do that? But I'd just deal with it. And it was just, every day I'm just a little low pain, whatever, just deal with it. And that's just been my MO. And it just got so bad. And yeah, I'm guilty of that.

Your greatest strengths are, I just, I deal with things and I should address it earlier. I don't feel pain. Especially with pain, cause it's just. How do each of us play that out, you know? How does it look in each one of us, how uniquely different? To get that, to do something like that? No, no, no, no, like that happens to you,

it happens to me, it happens, so it happened to Justin, obviously, but then we'll play it out, it happens. So this is how I'll tell you, let me tell you how it happens. Like, Sal, I have cancer. I'm saying, the minute he feels something in his mouth, he's Wikipedia, he's Wikipedia, all the worst things that could possibly be.

Letting everybody know that like, this could be his last year working for the company, what to do if he's gone. Like, calling all his family members. Within the first week, right, he notices something is off, slightly off.'s got to be cancer or something like that I'm probably just that I'm a bear probably And we can't tell right angry and really what's wrong that?

I'm just I'm on edge. I'm angry. I'm irritable about it, but I definitely go in before him I definitely don't think I'm gonna die of cancer like edge, I'm angry, I'm irritable about it, but I definitely go in before him, and I definitely don't think I'm gonna die of cancer like you, so it's- Well, that was there for a while. You know what you remind me of? You guys remember the movie Predator? Jesse Ventura's character?

He's the one with the big, remember when they're shooting bombs or whatever's going off, and then his buddy looks at him and he's like, you're bleeding, bro, and he's like, I ain't got time to bleed. I ain't got time to bleed. Pick up my arm, let's keep going. This is naive of me to ask this or say this, is I would have thought the alcohol

wouldn't be that bad for it, is it because the sugar that's in alcohol that is so bad for it? Yeah, I think it's the sugar, because you get inflamed from alcohol, that's the thing. And the inflammation. I mean, temporarily like I actually took like

It was a couple days ago I was like in pain and I just took a shot of whiskey and then swash it around and it numbed it But then later it got inflamed. Okay, so that's gonna say cuz I would think that there would be some benefit of the alcohol on that You know the the cleaning Right, but then the sugar probably is not good for it whatsoever You know and it I think it it all goes back to when you're a kid and you kind of you build these behaviors and habits based on like what somebody told me like so when I first broke my arm and I Didn't cry and I went into the emergency room and they and I was just sitting there in my little army gear because I was

Playing army man like outside and this this nurse comes in just like you're the bravest oh that's it I've ever ever met you know just like was going over the top like she's probably attracted really yeah yeah always act this way now from now on always like pain is not even like it does. Great self-awareness you can connect it all. Meanwhile when I want to get hurt like every woman in my family, oh poor come here let me give you a hug. Oh yeah that's you. You know what I'm saying? I'm probably dying. We know what happened to you. We won't bring that up. Yeah. When you got sick that one time. Don't forget that bro. How crazy is that? When you think about it, when you unpack how we all react,

has definitely probably the way we were raised. A woman was a part of this whole thing. For all of us. All of us. That's the confidant. How I said each one of us would play out, 100%, you can probably connect it all back. When Adam's sick, he gets in the mood.

Yeah. It's like, bro, relax. What are you doing? You got a fever. We're not gonna beat you, dog. Yeah. Damn, come on. I know. Oh my god, bro, speaking are you doing? You got a fever. We're not gonna beat you, dog. Yeah. Yeah. Go, go. I know.

Oh my God. Damn. You know, bro, speaking of kids, dude, oh, I've brought it up a few times on this podcast that Max is, I made this commitment, I don't know if you guys did this or not, but I never wanted to be the dad who was just like, because I told you so, or dismissive, or annoyed when your kid is at that age, when he was just like, because I told you so, or dismissive, or even, or annoyed

when your kid is at that age, when he's just like, why, why, why, why, why, why, you know, why everything and want explanation? And so I like, I embraced, like, I know that day's coming, and I went, what a great opportunity, I reframed it before it even came, like, what a great opportunity for me to learn things that I don't know, right?

Because he's gonna ask some shit that I don't know, and so I'm gonna have to do that, so. It's just, it's always, it always is, it's fun now. Like, and I've just decided, and sometimes it's a bit, because I got to stop what I'm doing. And I don't know. And so I got to Google it and then we got to look it up. And then we learn about it. I told you guys, we've been going down the storm rabbit hole and everything like that. So I've learned a ton about storms.

So the recent thing happened yesterday. We were watching, what was he, he was watching Little Einsteins, and there was a scene in there that was a booby trap. And he goes, daddy, what's a booby trap? And it like, do you guys know what a booby trap is? Do you know where it came from? I don't know where the term came from.

Yeah, so I know. Was it cleavage? No, you know, it has, think of what, that's okay, so just like what you just did right there, I went like, why would they call it a booby trap like a trap? Why is it called a booby trap? You know, there's an origin to it. Well, it's gotta be pirate related I would assume why would you say that that's I've really that's really good. That's insightful. Why would you say that? It sounds like a pirate world cuz booties You know, that's that's your your treasure. Right. And then,

so it's not a booby. It's actually booby. Yeah. Booby. It just sounds like a sailor. Well, the fact that you nailed that and he didn't, I'm surprised because I thought if anyone would know it'd be this guy with his random knowledge that he knows it is related to that. And so a booby is a type of bird. Oh yeah. Sailors that sailors used to trap. Oh yeah. And so, booby is a type of bird that sailors used to trap. And so, great guess. What do you think a booby bird looks like, Justin? I mean, the fact that you went right away. The pirates were like, catch that bird. Catch two of them. We want two birds. The fact that you went right to pirate and sailor

impresses me because I was like, just dumbfounded. Right away I went, it is a trap, but why do they call it a booby trap? Like, that is a great question, son. Like, let's look this up. That's awesome. So we look it up, and then I'm like, oh my God, it's named after a bird, and yeah,

sailors used to trap those birds, hence the word booby trap, and that's what we've done. That's awesome. I gotta mention one of our sponsors. I like it. Talk about the Juve Red Light. People ask how fast do they see results on their skin. Immediately.

It's within one or two sessions. Yeah, immediately. Literally, one or two sessions. By the end of the week, people will comment on this. I feel like this is. Because my wife stopped using it, then she started using it. She only used it like three or four times.

I'm like, oh my God. When you think about things that, like red light has exploded in just like the last decade or so. And you know, and rightfully so, because it has so many great positive benefits, but what I, at least in my experience, when it comes to like supplement, new science,

stuff like that, the things that go gangbusters like that so quick have to have some sort of immediate response from people. Otherwise it doesn't take off. Like let's pretend red light has all these great benefits. Like it does. But it takes a long time or it's subtle or it's hard to judge whether or not.

But because I think you can sit in front of that in two sessions and see a difference in your skin immediately That's right. I think that's why he also highlights like such a deficiency in everybody sure, you know Sure to be able to see that like visibly Yeah, I feel like we are very much like robbed of the exposure of those types That's a problem. That's probably another reason why in the last decade is exploded so much is because how probably deficient we are and it helps. And that wavelength.

Yeah, and so, oh yeah, for sure. The amount of sunlight and stuff that people are getting, they're neglecting that. It is a hack because you're not gonna get, the amount of red light you'll get from a 20 minute session in June, I mean, I don't think you get in a day. Well, you love predictions, I'll give you a prediction.

I always stop, and it's like any science like it's it's relatively expensive right now and over time it'll get more and more inexpensive right and then I actually think that a lot of these companies especially one look at all the things that they've done to keep the worker at the job and do those things like that like I imagine that they'll start using big companies like the Facebook's, Google's will start using big companies like the Facebooks, Googles, will start using red light in the office. Just have a booth. Yeah, instead of us always being under

all this fluorescent light, especially, this is different, we're on video and so having a big glowing red light would look ridiculous. But somebody who is a engineer on a computer all day long, I mean, this is how my sister who runs customer service for us, who's on her laptop all day long inside. She just turns it on. That's what she does.

She sits it on her desk and the little portable one and just lets it hit on her. I think big companies will, as we see more and more and realize how beneficial it is and probably how deficient so many people are, it's like, oh, this is a cool hack. Let's just make that some of our lights above. Dude, speaking of big companies,

I had this hilarious experience the other day. So you guys know how, like we joke around over how much money I spend on DoorDash. I just order DoorDash all the time. Successive. Well anyway, the other day- Did you forget about your flower thing? I did, yeah.

Can I tell the story? I think it's more fun from Mike's perspective. So does he know? No, no, I haven't heard it. Cause you were in the room when I was on call. I'm in the room and like, okay, talk about how each of us have our like anger like he's like fucking flaming and I hear him like Put like at demanding people on the phone right to get on the phone. I'm like, what is he?

Who's he talking to him? So I'm totally ear-hustling and It's over like a flower delivery and he's just like demanding his money back. Yeah, you're it's your fault and you mess Sorry, sir. It's not uh, then then it's obviously it's like fault and you mess it. And you hear the person, sorry sir, it's not, then da da da. And obviously it's like some sort of like subcontractor who the floral place does. It was a full, I went to Door Dash to get flowers for my aunt because my uncle, yeah. So the thing that I'm cracking up about though, is as I'm listening to this,

and I'm probably already like listened in for like five or 10 minutes and bounced on multiple phone calls, like trying to get to like, get his money back, right? And then I find out it's like over like $99 with the flowers and I'm like I'm like bro you do know you're losing money by having this conversation right your time is worth more than that the fact that you have like you petty fucks sounds like you're so principle well no yes you're so principle normally I wouldn't care but again it was because it was cuz my uncle

yeah yeah yeah but let me tell you what happened. I go through DoorDash, order it, the flower company called me. Oh, I don't know, it's a mistake, we're not open right now, so we can't do the flowers. I said, okay, cool, refund me. Well, we can't refund you. DoorDash has to refund you.

I'm like, no, I got the flowers from you, it's your mistake. No, we can't. So then I go to DoorDash, the app. I just go to the app, and I click on Refund. And to DoorDash, the app. I just go to the app and I click on refund and what DoorDash does is it only refunds you the delivery fee. It doesn't refund you the total amount.

So I call the flower company again, hey DoorDash only refunds me the delivery fee, you need to refund me. I'm sorry I can't and that's when I got mad at the guy and I'm like it's your fault and I'm already kind of mad because you know, in a bad mood because my uncle passed away. So then I hang up. So I'm like fine, I'll call DoorDash.

Now here's where it gets funny. I get on the phone with DoorDash and it must have recognized my number. So I call him. Pulls up your account. Oh, no problem, sir. No, I get on. I get on.

You're like, this is one of our premier customers. Is that A++ Platinum? Our premier customer right there. This is what it literally did. Because it's a machine that answers you. It's like type one for English. I type one, it's like, you are recognized as a VIP customer. Hold on one second and a person comes on the phone right away Hello, sir. How can we help you? I'm like, uh, yeah, I had this I'm so

You're oh, you're a VIP customer. We'll refund that right away. Oh, I'm so You can never get a real person. Yeah, but they recognize my number like VIP will switch you right away So I wonder but they recognize my number and they're like, oh, VIP, we'll switch you right away. Oh my God. Wow. So I wonder, I love stuff like this when I hear this, like a business has put a system in place like this. I mean, all the red lights must have gone off in the office. Yeah, no.

Sal's calling, get on the phone quick. What a smart, I mean, listen. Take care of them. This is, to put that into our perspective of our, I care about this stuff, right? I'm always thinking about this stuff. And I talk to our customer service team all the time, and I'm always like,

and sometimes they get frustrated with things like that. And I always go like, did you pull up their account? Did you pull up, did you pull up, because in HubSpot, we can see all their activity, all the things they've purchased for us. And I'm like- A loyal customer should definitely be treated like that. Yeah, they should.

I'm like, they spent over $1,000 with us. Give it to them. I don't care that they're wrong. I don't care that whatever. Yeah, well, eat it. Yeah, eat it. Eat it because it doesn't cost a company that much money. They are a valued customer, and even if they are wrong,

I'd rather them go like, oh, that was such a great process on our end, even though I know they're being rude to you, I know they're doing this, so that's, now granted, what normally actually happens is the people that spend zero dollars are also the biggest complainers. Those people fuck off. That's why I'm so, when our customer service,

when you're rude to my customer service team, and you're also the person who's a miser and you haven't spent any money, and I can see all the free stuff you've got of ours, and then on top of that, you're being rude to my people. Yeah, you can fly a fucking kite. But if you're somebody who is a valued customer as you are to DoorDash, it's like,

just give the dude his money. Even if it's not our fault, give the dude his money. What's funny to me is nobody looked me up. I was flagged. I literally get on, I called them. I bet they have a system. I bet they have a system. It literally said, oh, we recognize you as a VIP.

Hold on one second. Someone went on right away. Imagine if we had that. That's what I'm talking about out loud right now. It's like, oh, that would be really cool. Because we get enough emails. There's a picture of me over there. It's a gold standard.

All the coaching goes around that. This is what we're searching for. Customer of the month. And. Give him anything. He pays everybody's paycheck in here. Yeah, it's gotten bad. It's so bad. People just whatever. But I think the fact that you were spending your time doing that, I was just like, Oh my God, this guy has on the on the opposite. Like in Katrina even gets mad at me when like I won't even go

I'm so bad. I won't even return something. Yeah, I know I never return. I never return. I was typically I wait that out. I'm not gonna use it go return I'm like we already opened it. It's fucking nine dollars like it's it cost me more gas about like we're losing more buddy returning it Like oh my god I had a funny One of my friends and I won't put him on blast But like he was like dude, I hit a really low point like I took a dead plant and brought it back to Costco Yeah, they will my grandfather was, but he grew up poor as hell. He would open, if he opened a bag of like hot dog buns

and one of them was broken, I want to replace this one bun. Yeah, he went through the Great Depression. That's different. That's how you ever heard Dave Ramsey talk about his dad and the lessons he learned from his dad. Part of why Dave Ramsey is this guy who teaches everybody how to do this so much

is because he was influenced by his dad who went through the Great Depression who used to, know if they were redoing the deck the nails they pulled out of the wood he would collect He used to bring clippers to the grocery store because he I'm not gonna pay for this thing. Yeah, yeah. So sorry. You're.005 pounds that you just said. It's a good time. Luminose by Entera uses peptide science to make your skin look amazing and also regrow

hair on your head. This is the highest concentration of effective peptides you'll find anywhere. They're having a Father's Day sale, by the way. Go to enteraskincare.com. That's E-N-T-E-R-A, skincare.com, forward slash M-P-M. Use the code MPM and get a massive, massive discount. Back to the show. Our first caller is Camille from Texas.

Hi, Camille. How you doing, Camille? How are you? Hey, guys. How you doing? Nice to meet y'all. You too. How can we help you?

So first of all, I've been listening to you guys for about a year and a half. Y'all have totally changed my perspective on everything health and fitness and I drive a ton for my job. So you guys have been my number one source of entertainment and education. So thank you guys for that.

Awesome, thank you so much. Yeah, of course. So the question that I brought in is kind of long. I'm gonna try and condense it as much as possible. So just kind of to preface, I've always considered myself to be quote unquote, skinny fat. I don't have like a high body fat percentage

or high body fat mass, but I do have and always have had very low skeletal muscle mass. So my goals right now are almost exclusively aesthetic. I'm really trying to build muscle and reduce that body fat percentage. However, I know that you guys are going to say to be a little bit of a surplus first to build up that muscle.

And I totally agree with that logic. But like I said in my question, it's Houston. It's almost summer. I don't really want to have to gain that body fat first before having to reduce that just to gain muscle. So I kind of want to approach it in what the fitness community calls body recomposition. I know you guys don't really use that term a lot, but I wanted to get your thoughts on that and see what you guys think the goal there would be. You absolutely can do this. What it looks like is you're not really in a cut,

you're not really in a bulk, you're kind of targeting a maintenance. And what happens, we're never really at maintenance. You're always either anabolic or catabolic. So you're either always building muscle or burning, right? Cutting, cutting. And so when you're targeting, let's say for you, let's say that calorie intake is 2,200 calories.

We agree that that's not really cut, that's not really a bulk for you, let's say that calorie intake is 2,200 calories. We agree that that's not really cut. That's not really a bulk for you. It's about maintenance for you is 22. There's going to be periods of time in the week and in the month where you're actually a little bit in a surplus, and you're sometimes a little bit in a cut. And if we do that really well, you

should see a very nice exchange of no major swings on the scale, but this nice exchange of sometimes you add about a pound of muscle, sometimes you lose about a pound of fat and you see your body, you see yourself get leaner and you don't have to go on some aggressive bulk or an aggressive cut. That's probably a great strategy considering where you're at body fat percentage and what you're telling me you want to do. That's what I'd have you do.

But a mistake would be thinking to go right to a cut. That's what most people do right here, is they're like, I want to look leaner, I know I need to build muscle, and it's saying all the things you're saying, but I want to get lean because it's summer coming around, and so you decide to get in a, you go in a cut, and it's more aggressive than you need,

and you don't build any muscle in that cut. All you do is maybe lean a little bit out, and probably lose some muscle along the way. Yeah, you know, I'd like a little more context. Tell me a little bit about your workout and do you track your calories and where are they currently at? So my maintenance is actually about 1800.

I really try to aim for at least 100 grams of protein. 130 would be awesome, but it's just hard to do appetite-wise. To be honest my workout regimen is super inconsistent. I coach part-time at a boutique fitness studio and I would like to do more traditional lifting. I actually do have anabolic but haven't ever fully completed it. So I want to get back into the gym, get back into weightlifting but right now a lot of what I do is kind of like walking. I do a

ton of walking for my job and a lot of what I do is kind of like walking. I do a ton of walking for my job and a lot of reformer-based strength training. Oh yeah, that's not strength training. I got the answer for you. This will give you everything you're looking for. So it says in your question that you're at what, 21% body fat? Yes.

Okay, so what look are you looking for, by the way? What do you want to look like? Because you said it's Houston, summer's coming up. Like Justin? What do you, you can only hope. A lot of people want wanna look like him. No, what look are you looking for?

Well, I'm very lean, or I'm lanky, let me put it that way. So I just, I know you guys hate the word tone, but I do just want to tone up and be leaner. Camille, you just gotta build muscle. 21% body fat is a great body fat percentage to be at for a female. The look that you're looking for

is gonna come from more muscle, not less body fat. Yep. Right. Okay? Your 1800 calories is low. Yep. So I would bump your calories to 2000 at least, to start with, and I would start consistently doing MAPS Anabolic.

Consistently. Don't need to add any other activity. Just do MAPS Anabolic two days a week, get stronger, feed your body and what'll happen is you'll build muscle and you'll probably get leaner as a result. So what I mean by that is right now you have a certain amount of body fat on your body. If I added five pounds of muscle to your body without adding any additional body fat, your percentage goes down and you're gonna

look the way you want. You're not gonna get the look you want by cutting your calories that's gonna actually add to that's gonna move in the opposite direction if anything you'll lose muscle and Hopefully stay at the same body fat, but probably go up Because you lost muscle so bump your calories follow maps anabolic and slowly reverse diet into the summer And that'll give you the look you look and I guarantee you slowly reverse diet into the summer, and that'll give you the look you're looking for. And I guarantee you bumping just to 2,000 calories, which I would still consider for a five, six person

as active as you are, is still low. That's right. So you're not even aggressively bulking at all right now. You're probably getting closer to what your maintenance probably should be like. I would probably argue it's closer to 22, but we can ramp up there slowly, because that's what might be the next step or phase is,

okay, great, you're at 2,000. We haven't added any weight on the scale. Body's looking good, so do I cut now? No, add another 200 calories. That would be the advice. So that's what it looks like to get you with a lower body fat percentage and a more toned look, but there's another part

that you said that I think is really important, and I'm sure if you told us that getting 100 is hard, there might be days where you're lower than that. No, hitting your protein. Hitting your protein intake and being consistent with the program is huge. Magic. Huge. Everything. Like if you are inconsistent with the two of those things, it doesn't even matter this advice

I'm giving you because that is enough for you to not see the results you want to see. You purely just committing to, I'm going to hit 120 grams to 130 grams of protein every single day no matter what, even though I got to take a shake at eight o'clock at night before I go to bed because I got to hit that number. You doing that and being consistent with the program will for sure do this. It'll for sure take care of what you want Do you take creatine? I? Don't right now just because I'm so inconsistent in the gym, but once I'm starting to be more consistent

I would like to so always take creatine. It's good for you. Anyway, it's gonna actually give you more muscle tone I hate that word But it's gonna give you more what you're looking for Even if you don't lift just cuz it's gonna hydrate your muscles but add the creatine, hit the protein, bump your calories, follow MAPS Antibolic, and reverse diet into summer. Do not cut at all.

If you continue to slowly reverse diet into summer, you're gonna get what you want. And get strong. Get strong in the gym. If you get strong in the gym, summertime's gonna hit and you're gonna look the way you want. So just follow that path. Do not cut.

That'll be the wrong way. Trust us. All right. Sounds great. Thank you guys so much. You got it. Thanks for calling in. Of course. Bye. Bye. Yeah. Easy.

See if she's in our trainer course. Super easy. Yeah. If you, you know, if she were to try to cut right now, what would happen, I'm gonna tell everyone what would happen. At her size, 21% body fat, she's already lean, with what she's doing, if she went into a cut,

here's what would happen, she would lose weight on the scale. But her body fat percentage would go up. So she'd be a skinnier, flabbier version, and it would be very frustrating. No muscle definition. Already how she's describing she feels. When she started off saying that I feel like I'm skinny fat, right? That I am not this big overweight person, but I feel flabby, soft, and she needs more.

Yeah, she wants more muscle. It's just I get it because it's counterintuitive, right? Right. To eat more to look leaner. That's right. Sounds counterintuitive. But the bulk that you put or the calories that you put her on, 2000 calories.

I started slow on purpose. Is not, is not going, in fact, what she's probably gonna do is to go up again. Like that's not gonna. Oh, I guarantee you. Taking 12,000 steps a day, doing reformers and all. I think in two or three months, I would predict she would be closer to 2,400 calories.

Yeah, I agree. Our next caller is Misty from Florida. Hi Misty. Hello, hello. How are you? Hi guys. This is crazy. I feel like we're already friends because I listen to you guys every day.

We are. Let's hug. Yep. How can we help you? Well, I'm going to do the usual and read my email to you, although there's always updates, right? OK. My life dramatically changed about two and a half years ago

when I hired a nutrition coach and resulting in 49 pounds lost naturally. Before that, I was chubby most of my adult life, yo-yoing 20 pounds or so, eager to do better, but just did not have the knowledge and did everything wrong. Tons of cardio, under eating, same story, different girl. Since this journey changed my life, I become fascinated with nutrition

and got my nutrition license. When I told my coach, she asked if I wanted to come on board and train ladies under her. I was so honored to even be considered. This little fat girl to nutrition coach, like who knew? It's not my main career, but I love helping women start living. It has been so rewarding in a way like nothing, like not much else in my life. Watching these ladies get it. We teach lifestyle

to sustain, not quick fixes. It's all about feeling better, not looking better. And nutrition's changed my life. It's completely, it sounds cheesy, but it's true. Anyway, my questions are, is there a way to get rid of my mom pooch naturally at this point in my life? Or am I just stuck with this thing? And I have math 15 and I've done all three phases. Do I start over on phase one, add more weight or reps? I really, really love this program. I need to work out daily like for mental health.

So, but I have a really crazy schedule because I run a business plus I do nutrition coach plus I'm a mom. I work really hard eating right, walk 12,000 steps a day and I lift every day, but I just feel stuck. I don't like the body I have yet. I know it takes time to get there. I'm realistic about that, but I just don't want to spin my wheels. Yeah. Great job. Yeah. Great job.. Yeah great job. What a success story. Great choice of program. You're actually doing great. And you're helping you know I'm gonna tell you the thing that you're doing now that's gonna help you the most is coaching other people. Nothing made me

better with these things than working with other people and speaking to them and just in teaching. It made a huge difference. Are you being overly critical with your body, do you think? I mean, I think, it's, you know, I hone in on the things I don't like, which I think is natural, but I just feel like, I should be a little bit further along than I am. You've come so far. We're looking at your pictures right now.

You've done an incredible job. Yeah, you've come so far. Like you have a success story that a lot of people are never able to accomplish. So I want you just to, number one, just realize that. But let's talk a little bit. I think I know where you might be going wrong with your training because of the way you asked your question.

Should I add reps or weight to Maps 15 following weight again? You always add weight or reps when you can. You always. Anytime you're following a strength training program and you feel, now the context is with good technique and form, okay, you feel you can do more or lift more, do it. Always do it.

The challenge part is what's real important with strength training. Progressive overload is very important with strength training. And this would be, I would have lots of clients who would have this issue, typically women, but I would typically have this problem where they would do the same weight and they would ask me when should I add weight? And it's like when you can do it

with good technique and good form. If you continue to get stronger, you're gonna continue to see progress with body composition, especially because you have the nutrition dialed in. Yeah, where are your calories currently right now? I don't log every day just because I'm like obsessive about things. Yeah, I get it. So I do every once in a while I'll log just to kind of see where I'm at

and I'm generally about 1800 to 2000. Yeah, yeah you could probably you could probably reverse diet that with strength training. That's where I was gonna go is that there might be an opportunity. Sounds like you've been in this like very consistent cut and good balance whole food. I mean you did an incredible job. Nothing wrong with how you got here. But now you might be at a place where like reverse dieting or adding some calories and really trying to get stronger, lifting more weights would serve you. And so what that'll look like is adding a couple hundred calories, which is very little, you know, add a Greek yogurt to your day or

something, very, very small amount. And pairing that with really trying to add weight to the bar. So you could literally run max 15 again, but as you get to all your lifts, go like, all right, I'm gonna put an extra three pounds or an extra five pounds on the bar. I'm gonna, and really have that mentality going through it a second time, while also giving yourself that extra 200 calories,

you're gonna put on some muscle. And you put on that muscle, it's only gonna help build your metabolism, it's only gonna make you look tighter and leaner. And that area that you're talking about, it'll come off. And I don't know how long you've been listening to the show, but when I went through the long time ago when I was competing and documenting that on here,

I talked about that, that it was really interesting that when I got really, really lean for a stage, I still had this like little pooch that it was really interesting that when I got really really lean for a stage I still had this like little pooch. It was crazy. I was still I was but my body fat was in the single digits But then I still had like this little pooch that wouldn't be Drove me crazy because I'm like I'm so lean that I would think that it wouldn't go there What I noticed was the first time I got really really lean it was there And then I reversed dieted built some muscle got really, really lean, it was there. Then I reverse dieted, built some muscle, got lean again. It was a little bit better.

I did that again. By about the third time, I had reversed dieted and came back again. It had tightened up and it was gone. And so, and it's never really came back because I've never allowed myself to put that much weight back on. But it did take that. It took a couple of times of reverse dieting, building more muscle, cutting back down and leaning out again,

reverse dieting, building some muscle, and then it's just like my skin tightened up, I filled out, I built the muscle underneath it, and then all of a sudden it wasn't there anymore. But it was weird because seeing that when you're 5% body fat is like, what is going on? I'm lean, I shouldn't have this here.

And I'm sure you feel very lean compared to where you come from. And so it feels like I shouldn't have that right there, but it's stubborn. It's a stubborn place that a lot of us get, especially if we've carried excess weight for an excess period of time and that your body's still got a little bit of loose skin there. It's still holding a tiny bit of extra fat still right there. And it'll go over time, especially through consistency and proper dieting.

Body composition will happen if you slowly reverse diet and build muscle. You're gonna get the body comp changes for sure just from that. Yep. Yeah I guess my concern was just because like my age I didn't want to lift too heavy you know so that's why I'd ask that question about like lifting more. Don't be afraid. I'm 45 and so I'm like, you know, I need to just be a little bit more careful, especially since I'm new at lifting. You know, new in the sense it's only been a couple years, hasn't been my whole life.

No, listen, the injury comes from lack of control and stability. And yes, it's true, once you get to a certain strength, you gotta be really careful, right? Like, you know, when I'm, you know. There's so much potential for you still though. Yeah, but you got a lot of potential. So maintain good technique and form.

Don't compromise your technique and form, but also challenge yourself. Yeah. Misty, how often does this ever happen to you? Cause this could be like a real easy way to do this. How often do you follow a program like Matt's 15, it calls for 12 reps, you put weight on the bar and you realize that rep eight, you can only get maybe one more

and you have to stop at nine. How often does that happen to you? I've been better about it recently where I was picking up a weight where I could complete the reps and the sets where I was not gassed, but I could actually complete them. So lately I've been trying to push myself or if I only get eight out because I picked up a heavier weight, I'm trying to be better about that. Perfect. So that's what I want. That's what I want to see from you. I'd want to see that side because normally my, especially my female clients, they are more like it's the opposite of dudes. Dudes put on too much weight. I got to tell them back off. You're not ready for that. My girls, I'm normally like, you can do more, trust me. It's okay if you have the program calls

for 10 reps and you put enough weight on and you realize you can't even get to 10 reps. I would rather see that than you always can complete 10 reps easily. Because then I'm like, okay, there's another level that you got there that you pushed. And it's not a big deal if you cut the set short by eight reps because you put five or ten more pounds that you didn't think that you could lift on. That's a better mentality where you're currently at. Okay. Okay. So that's good to know. Yes. I just went to the hormone doctor this morning actually oddly enough and I found out I have Hashimoto's and hyperthyroid. So that was fun news. Oh, hey, you get that under control. You get that under control. To my diet, because I drink lots of protein shakes

and to meet my protein goals, because it's hard to get 140 grams of protein in. So that's kind of my daily routine. Avoid gluten if you don't already do that. I've had a lot of success with clients and thyroid issues, especially antibodies and gluten. So for some reason, it's got this really good effect typically.

Yeah, yeah, all right. Yeah. I definitely All right. Yeah. I definitely try all the stuff you guys suggest. I have, I have joy mode. I have the, um, in Tara or luminous, um, the Jews, red light. I do that every morning. I've seen difference in my skin for sure. I've seen your valley, um, bone broth. And yeah, you're doing all the things. That's why you look so good.

Yeah, yeah. I saw your age. You're so radiant. I'm like, she doesn't look that, so that's why you got that, yeah. You're doing good. If you stay consistent and you take the little bit advice we're talking about, trying to get stronger,

adding a couple hundred calories right now, and I think right away, you're gonna start to see a difference, and it does, it just takes time. You just gotta remember that, I don't know how many years of your life you carried yourself overweight, but it's a lot longer than the time that you've been in the shape that you are now. And so just over time, it'll get

a little bit better. It'll get a little bit better. And I wish I had the science to explain better why that is, how that happens. But I know firsthand with myself and seeing it in clients where like, you know what, after we've reversed diet cut, reversed diet cut times, it tends to go, that tends to go away. It just takes time. Yeah. Well, I think my biggest fear is like my whole family,

not whole family, but like 90% of my family is like morbidly overweight and diabetic. And so, you know, it's super scary to me to like, you know, go back to that route. But like, you know, go to go back to that route. But but on the other side, my news from the doctor today was like, you're never going to be a diabetic based on your blood results and your sugar level. Wow. All that stuff.

So that was that was pretty cool to hear. So I was like, well, at least I got something positive out of that visit, because not not excited about not having dairy or gluten in my diet, because that's, you know, that's going to be a challenge. But but I was I thought that was pretty positive news. Not excited about not having dairy or gluten in my diet because that's gonna be a challenge. But I thought that was pretty positive news. That is positive. You're doing good. You're a light for the family too, so keep it up.

Thanks, Misty. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you so much for what you do. You got it. I tell you what, nothing connects more to a mom of three and her inability to get rid of her pooch, then Adam's example of when he was a bodybuilder.

And he had a pooch on his belt. Whenever you give an example. You always think that, and I think that's so funny that you call that out whenever I use a story from- No, what you said was true. It is true. I'd say it's easy. I know her and I will never-

I know exactly what you're going through. I'd never say it like that. I'd never say I know what you're going through I always I struggled with a pooch like that and I remember I know what it's like to work your ass off clients go through it no and I also know it's like to work your ass off see yourself go through a transformation and scratch your head why why is this I and I remember scratching my own as a trainer and scratch your head. Why is this? And I remember scratching my own, as a trainer, and having all the knowledge, having all the experience,

knowing I was dieting, right, and not being able to figure it out. And so- I have some science that might support that. It may be converting that fat from white to brown. Brown fat is more thermogenic and it's not stubborn. It's not nearly as stubborn. And the process of building muscle,

improving insulin sensitivity has been shown to convert more white fat to brown fat. So that may be what's happening. Cold plunging helps with that too. It is, I think when you have somebody too who's carried it for that long, it just takes a, it takes more, it was a time in my life where I had never carried that much body fat for that long

and it just didn't go as much. And you could be lean as shit and still see that and it can be really discouraging for somebody who's putting in the work diet-wise just takes time. Our next caller is Jake from Hawaii. What's up man? What's going on Jake? Hi this is Serial. I was literally just listening to you guys on my way to work. Awesome. How can we help you? So cool So cool. All right. Uh, I'm just going to read it so I don't get, you know, off track or anything like that. Um, so yeah, you know, traditional thank you guys for the podcast. Hey, Jake, Jake, when you switched to your, okay, he just switched cameras. He's got, you know, what happened is he's reading. So yeah, we can't see your video. All right. You know what? I can, I'll just drop off my head. I got all my head anyway. Thanks, Jake Thank you guys for everything you do Jake we still can't see ya Lives you enrich shout out to Doug for keeping the lights on

As a first responder and a father and a husband You know, you guys have been such a positive influence on my life. There's no handbook for that kind of stuff. And you know, the advice and just all the information you guys throw out. It's been great. Definitely my favorite podcast. And I'm a lifeguard, so I listen to a lot of podcasts. Thanks man. Appreciate it.

Yeah. So basically my question is about adaptation versus overtraining. I am 34 years old. I'm a lifeguard in Hawaii. We get training breaks every day so I work out at work. Usually it's kettlebells because that's kind of the situation that I got at work. But also maybe one to three times a week I'm surfing or foiling and I also play water polo every week maybe one or two times a week. Since listening to you guys I stopped pretty much doing most of my cardio and running and doing like mostly strength training and I've seen like a lot of success like that and I

wouldn't say that I'm plateauing I don't feel that way but I'm like at the point now where after all the success and gains that I've seen, I want to like kind of take it to the next level and step it up. But also I don't want to overtrain. So my question is kind of how do I balance like everything that I'm doing? And I know it's a lot and I have a feeling you're probably gonna say I'm overtraining. But you know, how do I, is it adaptation or is it overtraining? So that's kind of like where I'm at.

I don't think you're, okay, based on what you're telling me, I wouldn't say you're overtraining, but if you want, and I'm gonna assume what you mean by you wanna see more progress, that you're referring to more muscle and strength gains? Yeah, exactly. So like, it's, I mean like, I feel like I've gotten a little taste, you know, like I'm getting stronger

in water polo, I'm getting stronger, you know, with the kettlebells. With surfing, I've seen a lot of, you know, changes too, just from being like stronger and more functional. So I want to be able to like increase in all those things and also like be like progressing in terms of like the strength training itself.

Yeah. If that's okay. So there's a couple approaches to this. also be progressing in terms of the strength training itself. If that's okay, so there's a couple approaches to this. One would be to reduce activity so that more of the adaptation can be geared towards strength training. However, because of your job, and it sounds like you really enjoy some of the other things that you do, that might reduce the quality of your life. So that's going to be up to you. The other part is sometimes it's as easy as just eating more. So if you're doing all that stuff

and your strength training and you're still progressing and you're seeing your strength gains go up and you're building muscle and it's starting to slow down, you may need to just increase your food intake, increase your calories. Yeah, I mean, I do. So like, I had a weird relationship with food my whole life, you know? Like I was kind of like the typical like fatter kid

growing up and then like don't ever wanna go back to that, you know? But like since listening to you guys, I've definitely improved that relationship. So I pretty much like, I meal prep and bring my meals to work. So like I'm doing like kind of a lot of like basically like rice and chicken and veggies and stuff and I'll be like Two of those at work every day usually post workout

So I feel like I'm like I mean I guess I could be eating more I feel like I'm pretty good on that I actually did have a question about diet too So like art I'm in Waikiki, so like our busy season in the South Shore is in the summer, because we got like a lot more surf then. So like I'll probably be surfing more and making a lot more rescues. So my question would be like,

would that be a good time to go into a cut and like maybe back off strength training. Back off strength training but not going to cut. You don't want to reduce your calories. Yeah when you need to perform like that. That wouldn't be a good idea but you could reduce your calories. Would it be a good time to try a different diet like a paleo or carnivore diet? No, no, no, no, no.

You need stamina for that. Stick with carbs. Yeah you need stamina for that. The time that you could experiment with cutting carbs when you need less stamina and endurance, not when you need more. Yeah, but I kind of always need stamina. Exactly, exactly. I think you should increase your calories.

I think that alone will make it happen. As far as strength training is concerned, do you follow any of our programs? So because I have the kettlebells, I've pretty much been doing kettlebells for aesthetic. Perfect. But I was wondering if any of the programs were like the most adaptable to just having kettlebells I mean like like we don't we have at the tower like the setup that we have we have a battle rope

We've got kettlebells I've got a sled. I've got a steel mace. I've got Olympic rings. I've got t-rex traps to Justin would probably have a lot of fun. Yeah. Right up my alley. But yeah, I mean, even something like I think maps for team performance mass 15 bro with like kettlebells. Yeah. Just replace it. Just replace the movements with kettlebell movements. Literally follow a map 15 protocol and two exercises a day. But then where we call for, let's say, youbell back squat, use kettlebells. Just modify the... Two exercises a day with everything you have going on is plenty for

you to build muscles. And then Sal's advice to add calories should do the job. But I also think that you're probably a really fit, good stamina. You probably got a little bit of everything pretty well based off of what you do. It's just this becomes difficult when people kind of want you're probably a really fit, good stamina. You probably got a little bit of everything pretty well based off of what you do. It's just this becomes difficult when people kind of want everything. And it's like, something's got to give a little bit, right? Like you're not going to be Mr. Olympia

and doing all the cardio activities you're doing, but then you're also not going to be the best swimmer and all those things. And then also be with strength training five days a week. It's just something's got to give a little bit and you're probably doing really, really good for what you're doing. And the first step would be to feed you a little more, see how the body responds,

because you might just from that add some more muscle. And then or decide based off of your week, like I could probably scale back a little bit on that because it's not my main priority right now. And two, in terms like, do you have with the kettlebells, do you have the ability to go up and wait or is it pretty limited? So that's something I've been thinking about. I've got, uh, two, 35 which are honestly feeling pretty light to me. And then I've got a 45 and a 50. And I've been thinking about leveling up to like maybe like a 70.

Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that'll do it. Progressively override your way there and And two, to make the 35s heavier, you know, using tempo and using those pause reps and things like that helps a lot too. But yeah, bump your calories and lift heavier. I think that'll do it right there. Yeah. So, and that's the other thing I was going to say is like, we get our training breaks. So like, you know, I could surf or foil or do kettlebells, but it's like an hour.

So like a 15 minute workout, I would like be done really quickly and have nothing to do. So I've been, I've been like working around like, because like, I don't want to do like too much cardio, right? So I've been doing like really slow workouts, like over the course of the hour, I'm trying to do like maybe like five by fives and like take a lot more time in between sets. That's great. And that I've had some success with that. That's great. If you do two exercises, five by five, it'll take and you give rest periods. I mean, do the math on that three minute rest periods five times. I mean, right away,

you're resting 30 minutes of it right there. That's it. That's an hour workout to two five by fives with three minute, three minute rest in between those. So two exercises, five by five, rest at least three minutes. You got yourself- You're pressing the weight, you know? You got an hour. Increasing that. That'll keep you busy.

Do that and bump your calories, Jake. That's it. All right, awesome. Yeah, man. Yeah. You got it, dude. Yeah. Take it easy.

All right, Jake. Thanks a lot. Invite us out there. All right. Yeah, if you guys ever come out here, hit me up What island are you on? Got it, that's awesome. Right on man. Thanks brother. All right. Thanks guys

Yeah, I you know lifeguards to me are just so awesome because I have such a fear of the deep ocean You know, I mean when I see like the way we put floaties on you He might just be doing a ton and trying to get, he's probably in really good shape, got pretty good stamina, probably pretty strong. It's like you just want more in that area. You might have to let go a little bit of some of the other stuff.

But sometimes just eating more. And like you said, he was afraid of being overweight before. I think you're right, yeah. If you bump, you just bump your calories. That could easily be it. It could easily be just bumping an extra 250, 300 calories and all the muscle comes on. That's right.

Our next caller is Paige from Utah. Hi, Paige. How you doing, Paige? Hi. I'm so excited to be here. And I always think it's so weird people get so nervous. But here I am so freaking nervous. No worries.

How can we help you? OK, so I'm just going to read my question like everybody else does. So I'm only getting bigger and weaker and I don't know why. So I've been working out consistently for 15 years. I'm 34, about five, five on a good day. And I weigh 155 ish, but I don't have a healthy relationship with the scale.

So I won't confirm that. Um, last time I checked, I was between 21 and 22% body fat, according to my home scale, which I know isn't necessarily accurate, um, for four to five years in my twenties, I taught indoor cycling. And during this time, I think it's safe to say I was doing it all wrong. I was overtrained working out two to four times a day with one to zero rest days doing CrossFit and cycling and NYC. The culture there was no days off and it was horribly toxic. I was under eating, under sleeping, et cetera.

That said, I was the strongest I've ever been. My squat was two 23 deadlift was two 80 and my bench was one 35. In 2019, I decided to leave New York and slow life down a little bit since my strength, since excuse me, since my strength has only York and slow life down a little bit since my strength since excuse me, since my strength has only decreased and my body has gotten bigger. When I left fitness, I started a sedentary job for the first time in my life. And without realizing it, I gained a bit of weight. In New York, I was between 135 and 142 pounds.

And about a year, year and a half ago, I went to the doctor and I weighed 160 to my surprise, and had a complete meltdown. Since I've put a big focus on getting non exercise activity and daily, I've gotten my steps up to eight to 12 K per day. I lift three to four times a week for 30 to 45 minutes at a time focused on strength. In the last few months, I started a reverse diet adding 100 calories every one or two weeks after all the calls, I've listened with you, I felt that was my next best move. I've been chronically cutting and maintaining since I started my journey 15 years ago. And unfortunately, I'm just another millennial who got trapped into the mindset of being smaller is better. I'm up to 2100 calories a day, which is a lot for me to be eating consistently. It's been mentally hard, but I thought maybe this would be the fix. Overall, I've been feeling pretty good. My activity is up. My energy is up. Well, it was up. It's not up anymore. Um, I'm getting a little bit stronger in

the gym and I really thought I was starting to look better. And as much as the logical side of my brain knows that being strong is healthy, strong and healthy is number one. There's still a traumatized girl inside me that cares a lot about how I look. Today, when I wrote this email, feeling confident, I decided to measure my waist just to see where it was at, because usually measurements make me feel a little better than weighing myself. My waist is one to two inches bigger than it was six to 12 months ago. And I'm just at a loss. I've spent a long time trying to figure out

how to lose body fat. And I feel like I continue to fail. I continue to get larger and weaker. My squat went from 223 to 190, if I can even still do 190. The last time I tested that was probably six to 12 months ago. I'm feeling really frustrated and I don't understand

why my body doesn't do what it's quote unquote supposed to do. I had my hormones tested in 2019 and I don't understand why my body doesn't do what it's quote unquote supposed to do. I had my hormones tested in 2019 and I was estrogen dominant and had high cortisol. I spent a few months taking supplements like DIM and other vitamins to regulate, but it cost a lot so I stopped. So I don't know where they stand now. I have some autoimmune issues, primarily psoriasis, no food sensitivities that I know of. Although I recently cut out dairy

and I feel better doing that and I think I may have had a slight sensitivity. Anyways, I'm just at a loss. I know I'm not perfect, I don't hit my calories every weekend because I like to enjoy my life. I've had a time where I was really, really strict back when I lived in New York

and I was absolutely miserable and hated my life. So that's my question. All right, so, all right, let's back up for a second. You said you got weaker, and the number you gave us was like a squat of 223 to now 190? Yes. When was the 223? That was probably 2000, that was 2019.

Okay, since you started reverse dieting and strength training the way you're describing now, have you gotten weaker or stronger? I don't really know. I haven't tested any of my maxes or anything. I feel generally pretty good. I feel like my upper body has been getting stronger faster than my lower body and it used to be the other way around.

So I'm not totally sure when you're going through the reps though, without having to do a max set, like, do you feel strong getting through your, are you adding weight to your current sets or adding reps? Yeah. I mean, I feel like I consistently have been moving up, but I feel like I keep starting from a lower place, like every time I start like a new cycle of anything, I feel like I'm starting at a lighter weight. And as although I'm like building up during that cycle, I don't feel like I'm really getting

Yeah, you can't compare yourself to the maniac version of you that was eating perfect and training seven days a week, it's just not fair. And that also caused some damage. What do you mean by cycle? Do you mean when you switch to a different program? Yeah. Okay, that's normal. Yeah, that is normal. Within the program though, are you getting stronger

since you've been doing this reverse diet and strength training the way that you explained? Yeah, I think so a little bit. I don't feel, and I know that I should be focused on strength only, but I don't feel like my body is necessarily changing all that much. So that's where I'm frustrated. So here's what happens when you get stronger.

Your body changed. I mean, that's what happens, right? If you could do five pounds more today than you did two weeks ago, then that means you're just not the same body. So it did change. And it's very difficult to use the mirror as a gauge on progress because it's subjective.

So it could be very, especially if you've been challenged by this in the past. Now if you wanna use some kind of a measurement, waste is okay, but the problem with waste is, especially if you have any food intolerances I mean you could your waste could fluctuate three inches Depending on the time of day your time of your cycle And or whether or not you're eating a food that can cause you know since sensitivity issues

I like body fat tests, and I like consistent body fat tests to look at the trend That's gonna give you a better a better gauge of what's going on. But the things that I think are most important are, do I feel better, am I stronger, how's my energy? Those are gonna be the most important things to focus on. And I would say stay the course. Now the other part of this is the hormone thing. Because you did test estrogen dominant,

you do have some autoimmune stuff. High cortisol, yeah. So you could look at that again and work with a practitioner on that. 35 is relatively young, but you see in women who in their 20s beat the hell out of themselves, so this is common in my experience,

women who beat the hell out of themselves in their 20 who get away with or should I say they they get away with it because their bodies are somewhat resilient so they don't die but they're definitely suffering. By the time they hit their mid-30s they start to they start to get hormone issues. Hormone issues start to kick in. Paramenopause starts to kind of show up in mid-30s with women who beat the crap out of themselves a lot with either over dieting over exercise or both So I would I would get hormones tested again and see kind of where that's at. Otherwise, I think You're probably moving in the right direction. I would just stay consistent

Body fat tests would be the way to measure and get stronger. That's gonna move you in the right direction I mean estrogen dominance cortisol stuff going on, a little bit of inconsistency on the weekends is enough of a recipe for you to not see the progress you might be making. I mean, those three factors alone is enough to take somebody and make them think I'm not doing a good job or something is wrong when in reality it's not wrong and you're actually doing a pretty damn good job. It's that if we were a little bit tighter on the diet on the weekends, we'd probably see a little bit more progress if we weren't holding a bunch of water because we're so estrogen dominant and or eating foods that make my autoimmune flare up.

I have psoriasis too and there's foods that you and I can possibly eat that aren't a massive red flag, but it's enough for me to all of a sudden to wake up and I notice my face is holding water and I'm a little puffier than what I normally am. And I'm always kind of scratching my head and going back, what was it that I ate yesterday that's making me look this way? Cause I felt fine.

Nothing bothered my digestion system. Like I thought I was okay, but obviously I'm holding water. So all those factors is enough to make someone like you feel like you're not doing a good job. When you're actually doing a pretty good job, it's just kind of slow at the pace that you're doing it. And there's a few things that we can do to tighten it up. I would definitely look into the hormone stuff because I think that alone tends

to make a big difference, especially for my female clients at your age. They're going through that and they're, they haven't got it balanced out. And that is enough to really set them off. Fixing that can be huge. Yeah, but look, here's the other side too, okay? Because you wanna have a good perspective in all of this. So look at your priorities and you have quality of life and then you have, I wanna get, you know,

I wanna lose eight pounds of body fat or whatever your goal is, okay? We just talked about your weekends, and you just said, you know, I enjoy myself, and I was a slave to it before, and I was miserable. If tightening up your weekends is gonna take away from your quality of life because it starts to push you back to where you were before, it's not worth it.

It's really not worth it. So that's the conversation you wanna have with yourself. And one of the best things you could do, Paige, to help with this is we're so wired, our brains are so wired towards negative information and defect and anxiety, this is what our default is, that you have to actively practice gratitude to get a more complete picture.

So, and it's actually more accurate, it's not less accurate, because sometimes people think, well if I focus on gratitude, I'm not gonna wanna improve, or I'm not gonna wanna change things, because I'm always grateful. No, the truth is that negative stuff is huge by default, and that the only way you can actually balance it out is by practicing focusing on what's going good.

So, and what this looks like is, you know, like for example, I'll give you an example, it'll be like journaling. And I'm like, okay, let me write a list of all the positive things that have happened over the last three months. And you're like, oh my God, I feel better. Oh, my weekends are great.

I've got this friend circle now that I love hanging out with, and these people I really enjoy. You know what, I'm getting better sleep, I used to have terrible sleep, and just, you have to actively practice it, and then you'll get a more complete picture, and then what might happen, Paige, is you might find yourself going,

you know what, I don't wanna change a lot. I think I'm doing, everything's great. Versus this like, poll of like, oh my God, I want this, but I want that, and you know, I'm doing terrible type of deal. I also want to point out too, if it's correct, 21 to 22% body fat at 150 is, you're healthy. Is that where you're at right now?

If that's at all close to accurate, you're also pretty damn healthy. You want to be right in that, yeah. Hold on a second, I missed that. That's what your body fat percentage is right now? According to her scale. Yeah, according to my home a second, I missed that. That's what your body fat percentage is right now? That's what it said, yeah, according to her scale. Yeah, according to my home scale. I don't know how accurate it is,

but that's what it tells me. It could be off by three or 4%, you're doing great. Yeah, like low to mid-20s with someone who's fit, okay? So fitness means I can work out and I've got some strength. By the way, 190 pound squat for a woman your size is great. Okay. So fitness means like I work out and I've got some strength, by the way, 190 pound squat for a woman your size is great. Yes. Okay. Did you read it like a six pack before this? Is that what we're like trying to focus on or no, I've never had a six pack. I've basically, no matter how strong I get, I kind of always, I don't, I wouldn't say look the same, but I, you wouldn't see me and be

like, wow, that girl works out. Like I'm pretty average looking regardless of where my strength is at. Even when I was beating myself up, like I looked back at pictures and I'm like, damn, I wish I knew what I looked like then. Cause I thought I was fat. I like definitely wasn't. What do you think's happening right now? Yeah, exactly.

Well, and that's the hard thing too, is I can't see myself. So then I try to use metrics to help me, but then those get in my head. So then I'm like, well, I can't get on the scale anymore because I'm going to drive myself crazy. So then I try to find other metrics that will work and I just kind of never know where I am. Paige, tomorrow, go, the next 10 women

that you see randomly that are 30 or above, okay? They have to be your age, around your age or above, okay? The next 10 you ask, ask them what their squat is and report back to me if any of the 10 have a better squat than you. I put that into perspective. You can walk outside right now, the next 10 people that you see, ask them where their squat. That is really strong. That's really strong for a guy or a 190 squat is impressive that's really impressive I tell you look low 20s is a great body fat percentage to be in it's healthy it looks good yep and you're strong you're doing good I tell you what look let's just make this real easy page focus on being healthy in all respects physical mental spiritual

health and your body will reflect it. But if you focus on your body, you're not gonna get what you want. So focus on health, the rest will follow. That's it. I had a feeling that's what you guys would say. All right, let's do it. Are you in our forum or no?

No. Okay, I'm gonna have Doug put you in our private forum too so we keep an eye on you, okay? Just check in with us. Okay. I know it's a journey, I know it can get frustrating, and you have have Doug put you on our private forum too so we can keep an eye on you, okay? Just check in with us. Yeah. Okay. I know it's a journey, I know it can get frustrating and you have these moments when you have that,

now you have access to us, you don't have to wait to get an email back or a phone call, just message us and tag us in the forum and hopefully you can help somebody else who's possibly going through the same thing too. Okay, awesome, thank you so much. All right, thanks for calling in. All right, thank you.

Bye-bye. How much of this, I already know the answer, Okay, awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks for calling in. All right. Thank you. Bye How much of this I already know the answer how much of this whole journey of health and fitness is mental psychological It's amazing right yeah, I mean it's hard for we're all guilty of this right We're all guilty of comparing the best version of us, where our best strength levels were. I mean, you'll torture yourself to death if you do that forever. And really, I mean, how many 34-year-old girls you guys know that are squatting almost 200 pounds? Barely any. I mean, I have a fit wife that's been training and actually, I don't think she's squatting

185 right now. That's good ass weight she's strong she's definitely strong and if her scale is even remotely close that's great yeah she could be 25% body fat squatting that kind of way and I'd be like yeah you you have some good muscle yeah and two I want to point something out she said oh my god back then in my 20s I'm paraphrasing I was miserable because I was over trained under eating okay and then she also in the same conversation said you know I look at I'm paraphrasing, I was miserable, because I was overtrained, under-eating, okay? And then she also, in the same conversation, said, you know, I look at those pictures

and I look so good. Just to kind of paint the picture of how we fool ourselves, would you actually go back in time and be that miserable girl in her 20s again? Just to look like that. And I bet her answer would be no. So that's the real full context of that. And yet still holding onto that image. That That's right. Look if you like the show

come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mindpump. Justin, I'm at Mindpump to Stefano. Adam is at Mindpump. Thank you for listening to Mindpump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers,

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