Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2624: Three Food Additives That Are Killing Your Health & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: June 21, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach three Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: 3 food additives that are killing your health. (2:13) Plugged vs unplugged. (26:10) Sal’s talk at the Peptide World Congress. (36:07) The effects of Acetaldehyde on the gut. (38:40) How family members can hinder one’s recovery. (41:38) Two words to define each decade of life. (47:13) Mind Pump is looking for trainers. Apply today! (1:00:21) #ListenerLive question #1 – Is there anyone here with experience, either having been injured or having helped people recover from this type of ongoing trauma? (1:01:36) #ListenerLive question #2 – What program would you guys recommend for teenagers? (1:12:23) #ListenerLive question #3 – Am I correct to allow my core to be such a limiting factor when doing squats, or is my fear the real culprit? (1:27:38) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Pre-Alcohol by ZBiotics for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MINDPUMP25 for 15% off first-time purchasers on either one-time purchases, (3, 6, 12-packs) or subscriptions (6, 12-pack) ** Visit Rock Recovery Center for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Ben and Tom know firsthand the struggles of addiction and alcoholism. With years of experience helping thousands of individuals, they offer a free consultation call to discuss your situation. Whether you’re personally battling addiction or have a loved one in need of help, they’re here to guide you toward the support you need. By filling out the form and scheduling your call, you’ll also be entered for a chance to win a free 60-day scholarship at Rock Recovery Center, their premier treatment center in West Palm Beach, Florida. Don’t wait—take the first step today. ** Special MAPS Longevity Launch: ** Code 50LONG for $50 off, now $97 (regularly $147). Bonuses: Forum access for a year ($97), Post-Launch Kickoff Zoom call ($97). Expires on 6/22 (30-day money-back guarantee). **June Special: Shredded Summer Bundle or Bikini Bundle 50% off! ** Code JUNE50 at checkout ** Scientist’s Study Led FDA to Ban Red No. 3 Food Dye. Yet He Says It Is Safe Distinct Gut Microbiota Signatures in Mice Treated with Commonly Used Food Preservatives Processed meat and colorectal cancer: a review of epidemiologic and experimental evidence Ultra-Processed Food Consumption and Mental Health: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Observational Studies Mind Pump Personal Training – Apply today! Get your free Sample Pack with any “drink mix” purchase! Also, try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water: Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump MAPS Prime Pro Webinar The Dunphy Squat | At Home Squat Variation – YouTube Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Michael Israetel (@drmikeisraetel) Instagram Thomas Conrad (@realrecoverytalktom) Instagram Ben Bueno (@realrecoverytalkben) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is mind pump. In today's episode, people called in. We coach them on air to better health, fat loss, and muscle gain. But that was after the intro. Today's intro is about an hour long in the intro We talk about scientific studies on additives fat loss muscle gain what you eat what you shouldn't eat It was a great time by the way if you want to be a caller on one of these episodes

Email us your question at live at mind pump mediamedia.com. This episode has some sponsors. The first one is Zebiotics. This is a pre-alcohol drink that helps you feel better. Drink Zebiotics, then go drink with your friends. You'll feel way better the next day. Go check them out. Go to zebiotics.com. That's Z-B-I-O-T-I-C-S.com forward slash mindpump25.

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with myself, Justin, and Adam. Again, all free. This expires on the 22nd. Once more, mapslongevy.com, use the code 50LONG. Here comes the show. It's well established that processed foods are probably gonna make you fat and kill your gains, but did you know that the additives in processed foods

are killing your health? That's what we're gonna talk about today. Three food additive categories that are destroying your wellbeing. Let's do it. Yes. We haven't talked about this yet. So I think I don't know if I shared this

with you guys or not, but I don't even remember if it was me or Katrina who did it or said it first. I think I might've did it. I might've did it right after you had shared this study on the red dyes. And so shortly after that, we just started going through our anything that was in a wrapper in our pantry

and looking at stuff. And the ingredients. Yeah, and surprisingly, there's a lot of things that you wouldn't realize. Yeah, they're not even red. Yeah, and so it there's a lot of things that you wouldn't realize. Yeah, they're not even red. Yeah, and so it's not like, obviously, obvious things like red candy has got it, but there's a lot of things that you just

wouldn't even guess have it, and so we started kinda going through that, and Max was paying attention. What are you guys doing? Oh, you know, Mommy and Daddy are cleaning out stuff that has red dye and it's not good for you, oh boy. And it's funny with these kids sometimes, what they hear and then what they latch on to and then like laser focus Yeah, and I don't know if it's a good I mean it's great that he's trying to eat better

But it's just like now like you hand him something in a wrapper and does it have red dye that was my kid Yes, so now Halloween now. He's asking everybody and I'm like, oh god Oh, yeah, it's like the focal point too, and there's a lot, even with my older son, because whatever's in the news and is kind of relevant, especially with RFK and all these things he's trying to bring up, they just see constant videos of all these things.

Well, what's interesting about this, so okay, it's established. This is clear in the data. Some of the best diet studies we have show that you are very, very likely to overeat if you eat heavily processed foods. They make you overweight, they make you fatter. Avoid them and you tend to get leaner. We've made this point probably 150 times on the podcast, but what we haven't talked a

lot about are the harmful effects backed by studies of additives. Now what are additives? These are things that have been added to foods that essentially make them processed foods and what they're typically added for is to improve palatability and shelf life. Those are the two main reasons why they're added. They throw them in because scientists have really figured out how to use certain chemicals to make something that tastes good even more enjoyable or to put differently, to light your brain up like a drug.

And they're also added to improve shelf life because that makes a dramatic improvement on profitability, right? If food goes bad on a shelf, that's a loss of profitability. In fact, the first processed foods, like canned foods. That was the main focus.

That was the main focus. Was how do we, we need survival food, or how do we have food for our soldiers in this part of the world or whatever. Or things that you get to ship across the country. That's right. One of the reasons, for example, that SPAM, which I don't know if anybody eats this anymore,

but spam is popular in Hawaii, was because of our soldiers stationed over there. And it was a way to give them meat. And spam lasts forever, meat goes bad very quickly. But now the vast majority of the science, and it's been like this for decades, that goes into processed foods, goes into increasing or improving palatability.

And there's really, there's three categories. And I wrote down some of these studies that support what we're gonna talk about today. So we'll start with the first one, which are colors, artificial colors. Now why are colors added to food? What does color have to do with palatability? A lot.

It does a lot. I remember one time, and I knew this already, but I remember experiencing this wearing, back, way back when we first started MindPump, I was experimenting with really, really strong blue light blocking glasses. And what they do is the strongest ones make everything dark red.

Like you put them on and it's like this really dark red tint. And I was still, I was eating a dinner and I wanted to put them on for the rest of the night. I put them on, I was eating my dinner. I was like this sucks. Yeah. Like I'm eating the food and it's not the same experience at all. Food companies know this. This is established science. There's terrible food experiments that have happened in the past where like ketchup for example, I don't know what company was. Was it Heinz?

Yeah, Heinz, they went black. Black and green I think they did. You know, because it signals that it's rancid. I mean, it's just these associations we've already literally built into a lot of these foods, so to reverse that is like, that's a huge fail. That's right, so it makes a big difference, the color and the vibrance of,

now this goes all the way back to when we were hunting and gathering. The color of something, just like the smell and the taste and the texture, would tell you what the food had in it, if it was dangerous, should you stay away from it, should you reach out and eat it. This is why if a strawberry is a particular color,

it looks good, if it's not, not so good. So color actually plays a massive role in palatability. This is why artificial colors are in absolute. Isn't that nature's way of signaling an offering? Even with flowers and all that too for bees. 100%. So here's some of the data that we have on artificial colors.

They, with kids, that's been linked to increased hyperactivity and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, ADHD, in some children. Now, why is this something we need to pay attention to as adults? Because it's changing the way that the brain is processing and it's changing how the brain uses and responds to the chemicals in the brain, these neurochemicals. What kind of effects does that have on

behavior? Will reduce the tension, maybe impulsivity, and adults would be much more subtle, which is actually scarier, to be honest with you. I think sometimes obvious signs are better than less obvious signs, because if you eat something, you're like, oh my god, I feel terrible, I probably won't eat it again. But if you eat something, especially if you've eaten it

over a long period of time, like you always have Cheetos, you always have whatever, you may have subtle effects that are actually affecting your life, your lifestyle, and the quality of the relationships around you, and not even know it. You don't even know that you're more irritable to your spouse or to your business partners or at work. You might not even know that your productivity dropped

4%, doesn't seem like much, but do this over years when it ends up happening. You may not even know that it's over time changing the way your brain models itself, because this is what happens to the brain when, when certain signals are too strong, your brain adapts by down regulating receptors. And now you adjust. This is probably why there's a withdrawal period, uh, when people go off, uh, heavily processed foods.

And that's what the data shows, which is really interesting. There are allergic reactions in many people, and then here's one that's really crazy, potentially carcinogenic. So there's some studies that show that red number three cause thyroid tumors in rats. Now this is the reason why they've started to ban it, right? In some places it's banned, right? In Europe. Yeah.

So the color red, as far as the dye is concerned, is the most egregious. Is it like, is there a scale of each color? Like which ones? They all seem to have an effect, because you can find studies showing all of them, but it's yellow number five, red number 40, blue number one, and then the carcinogen study

was done on red number three. Any guess why? Good question. You know, when they test- What's it derived from? study was done on red number three. Any guess why? Good question. You know, when they test it, what's it derived from? I don't know. That's a really, really good question, Justin. I do not know. Yeah.

Cause I mean, way back when, right? You would probably have to get it from some kind of fruit or dirt. That's right. Yeah. Something like that. That's right. Yeah. It's that's a good question, but here's why.

Like if you do a study that passes the FDA, the study tends to be short. Your- Small amounts. Yeah, small amounts. It's not over long periods of time. Yeah. It's not also considering in conjunction

with all these other things. They're also not testing pregnant women, so yeah, so it just says that it comes from natural and synthetic places. Petroleum. Coal petroleum, of course. Oh, petroleum, yeah it just says that it comes from natural and synthetic places. Petroleum. Coal petroleum, of course. Oh, petroleum. Yeah. Yeah. That's why it's so bad. Yeah. You can't test it on pregnant women. You typically don't test it on women. You definitely don't test it on children. Why? Because it's considered terrible ethics to

do so. Like, they would never approve a study on pregnant women to test a new chemical, because God forbid it kills their babies, right? Same thing with children, same thing with elderly, same thing with, and then who signs up for these studies, right, so, and so nonetheless, the effects may be subtle to the point where you're like, oh, it's the sugar, which it might be, but it also might be these things. They also don't test these dyes in combination.

So if they test red, they test red, but they don't test red with three other colors, and then what's the cumulative effect? You know, that's the- Now your body's gonna react differently to different combos. That's right, that's right. Then there's preservatives, right?

Preservatives are added to make food last longer, okay? I always thought this was just sodium. Like is there other major preservatives that are being used? Like I thought that we just hammered like the- There's sodium benzoate and then potassium sorbate, which are the most common ones. But back in the day, like literally hundreds of years ago,

it was just salt. Just salt, we used to pack everything in salt. Well yeah, they would, like sailors, when they would travel with meat, they salted the hell out of it. But these aren't necessarily the same thing. What do the studies show? Probably alters the microbiome, increasing inflammation

and potential metabolic disorders. So in mice, sodium benzoate reduced microbial diversity in mice, which was linked to impaired gut barrier function and inflammation. So again, over time, this could cause problems. You're like, what's going on? All of a sudden, I have gut issues or I have food intolerances, which are coming from leaky gut.

Could it be this? Again, you almost never find a preservative without a combination of also artificial colors in combinations of these different things. Then you have additives like sulfites which have been shown to cause allergic type reactions, asthma, respiratory issues. And then there's potential carcinogenic byproducts. Sodium nitrate can form nitrosomes which have been linked to increased cancer risk, particularly colon cancer.

Yes, so, and that's the, you guys, so you know when they bring up studies on meat and colon cancer? What they're using is processed meat. Processed meat, yeah. Yes, and there is an increased risk of colon cancer with processed meat. So these are like hot dogs and salamis and stuff like that with these type of preservatives.

So again, and we're gonna get to the next category, but you have preservatives and their potential effects now combined with colors and their potential effects. So do you think that there's an additive effect? There's definitely not a benefit to adding that. Right, right. That's for sure. Here's the other question. There's additive and then there's a multiplying potential effect. What does that look like?

Well three plus three equals six three times three equals nine So sometimes you combine two chemicals and you don't get the risk of both you get this like Synergistic effect that causes even worse problems Next up emulsifiers. So these are added to change the mouth feel of something. Is it also like the binders, is it structure? Yes, so like an example would be, so like an example would be like you get coconut milk

in a can, if there isn't a really good emulsifier in there, it's like the coconut fat separates from the water, you'd have to blend it, but they'll add something like guar gum or something to it, so it's always creamy and emulsified. I didn't know that's guar. Peanut butter is a good example. You buy just straight peanut butter.

The oil goes to the top. That's right. You get the fake stuff. Yeah, it's perfect. Oh, it's candy. Oh, this is so delicious. Yeah. That one gets me, dude. Yes. Out, it's perfect. Oh, it's candy. This is so delicious. Yeah. That one gets me, dude.

Yes. Out of all of them, and I'm like, ah, I gotta go back to the natural stuff. Again, mouth feel plays a huge role in palatability. Huge role. It's like, think about eating something that's meant to be crispy, and then it's kind of stale and not so crispy,

even if the flavor is identical. Totally different experience. Yeah. Think of the different, uh, you know, versions of a particular food and how it changes the experience, something that's crispy or soggy, uh, or, you know, it's got, it all changed, it all affects palatability.

So that's what emulsifiers do. Now emulsifiers like polysorbate 80 CMC, uh, disrupt gut barrier function, promoting inflammation in conditions like irritable bowel disease. This probably is one of the strongest connections with gut function, or these emulsifiers. Then you have metabolic syndrome, lecithin, mono and diglycerides can contribute to metabolic disorders

like insulin resistance by altering gut microbiome. By the way, they don't even know to test for that. We don't even know how to test for that. What do you think it is about those that seem to disrupt the gut more than like the artificial sweeteners and the emulsifiers? What do you think, I mean the preservatives? Well, emulsifiers seem to have a higher inflammatory effect. Mm.

Yeah. So, and I noticed this. Well, my gut was real sensitive and I would avoid, I brought the coconut milk one because coconut milk is great. And I remember it, I was really bothering my gut. Yeah. And I had, who was it? I don't remember who it was, it was a friend of mine who goes,

oh, that's got an emulsifier in it. Get it without a sanitizer. I wonder, because I used to use that, it was a friend of mine who goes, oh, that's got an emulsifier in it. Get it without, without an emulsifier. I wonder, cause I used to use that for coffee for a while. I was trying to kind of like reduce actual like dairy milk and that did not work well. It might've been the emulsifier. Yeah. Absolutely. 100%.

Then you have increased appetite and overeating, carrageenan, polysorbate 80. It may interfere with gut brain signaling, increasing appetite and food intake, which by the way, they would like. So, you know, a food company may notice when we add this, they just eat more. Yeah. So let's just keep.

It's all beneficial. Yeah. Let's just keep adding it. Then you have leaky gut syndrome with things like xanthan gum, and like I mentioned, guar gum, increasing intestinal permeability, which allows harmful substances to enter the bloodstream. In a 2020 gut microbial study found that high doses of xantham gum in mice increased gut permeability by altering the tight junction proteins. So again, by the way, there is no study on

what this potentially means with the gut microbiome, mostly because we don't know how to study that. We don't know what the altercations mean. We can only make potential connections. But they've never studied anything and said, how does it alter the microbiome, and then what does that mean? Because we have no idea. We just know that you eat these and it looks different

than when you eat. The pushback for all this would be like, it's not gonna affect you as much if you're like low calorie, right? Well yeah, because eating more increases the inflammation, increases digestive load and all that stuff, absolutely. It intensifies it. Right, but again, I mean we'll go back to what we said,

a billion and one different times. I know. Try eating in an calorie deficit with an 80% processed food diet. Yeah, good luck. Oh, yeah, that's not gonna feel good. You're just fighting an uphill battle that you'll eventually lose.

Okay, now again, I want everybody to consider this. Your processed food that comes in a bag or a wrapper or a box does not contain one additive. It doesn't. It just doesn't. Look at the back. It contains multiple food artificial color, sorry. It contains multiple preservatives and it probably contains one or two emulsifiers. Each one of these has been tested on its own for a short period of time. None of them have been tested in a realistic,

real world environment where a person is eating a food that has five to 15 of these and then also eats at 70% of the calories from these kind of foods and then also does it over months and years and years Now is that true because don't we have studies where people have done like with um, like diet sodas Which have a lot of these things in it and they you know Drinked, you know 50 of them a day to prove a point for how long and we know it's not a real world A real world study. You know what we have? We have connection, we have observational studies.

What do those studies show? People who eat a lot of heavily processed foods are far sicker, far more likely to have chronic illness, far more likely to have insulin resistance, far more likely to have all kinds of different diseases, far more likely to be obese. Now what they may admit to, because they still fight this,

is it's because they're overeating. So like, oh, if you just eat enough calories, there might not be a lot of those effects. I don't think so. I think that's a big role, but I think you cut out the obesity and you're still gonna have some of these issues because. Well, is addiction to anything ever been good? Yeah, probably, I mean, no, no.

I don't think so. You know, the other thing. Isn't that such a basic general rule, like you like, I mean, put it over to television or anything else that we talk about. I mean, like being addicted to anything tends to have adverse effects. The problem with food is a lot of people are in denial

that they have an addiction to it. It's the most widely accepted abuse substance in the world. Well, it's one of the few things that you can get addicted to that you also need. Yeah., it's one of the few things that you can get addicted to that you also need. Yeah. Right, a lot of the other things that people get addicted to are just, they're unnecessary, and then you get addicted

to it where food is necessary, and so it tends to get justified why I have to eat, and so of course, you know. Well, what's crazy about this is what we've done is we've taken food and we've turned it into a drug through careful engineering and that That alters not permanently because it I just I've read some studies that show if you go off heavily processed foods and avoid all These things what is the definition of the drug Doug? Well, so that so that you know when they came up with the definition of what's considered addictive is when the tobacco industry was getting

Regulated that's when they started to come up with like what does it mean? Yeah and processed foods fits right in that category I mean, I would think television fits too. I don't media. I don't think so. That's why I wanted to see the definition. Yeah Let's see what it says A medicine or substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced in the body. Well, that's everything. Yeah, pretty much. That doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, that's not a great definition. Because water has a physiological effect on the body. That is terrible. Yeah, so. That is terrible. Yeah, that's not great. But isn't it interesting how, I mean. Because I've read and it's like there's a withdrawal period.

There's a, there's a. Both follow a very similar trajectory when you think about how crazy and amazing it was for us to be able to communicate through television and like, wow, that was just like, it was all awesome, right? And then, then we started to figure out like, oh, this is an interesting medium for us to sell things to people and make money. And then it was like, oh wow, there's ways

that we could get them to keep coming back more often. And then it's like, oh wow, we can get them glued to this. The most dangerous things that we've ever done, when you look at it, not acutely, but en masse, that have affected humanity at large, the most dangerous things that we've done is taken natural human needs and desires and turned them into drugs.

Because the addictive properties are worse and scarier and it tends to be because it becomes so large and widespread, kind of accepted, so it spreads like crazy. I'll give you guys a great example. Pornography taps into the natural sexual desire that people have, but what they did with pornography is they just ramped up novelty to such an extreme that it's turned it into a drug,

and it's widely accepted. Up until now, nobody's really criticized it, but it's kind of widely accepted. Same thing happened with food, right? Processed food. It's like today, we're starting to talk about how bad it is, right? Where it's been around for a long time,

it's caused so many problems. And again- It's been sneaky. I mean, and two, I don't think it's been like intentionally nefarious. Like you look at like, even like McDonald's or like one of these ones they always target or they start out and they're creating burgers or creating, you know, they're fulfilling a demand. And then it's like, we need to make sure that they all look the same. We need

to make sure that they're getting the same experience. Yeah. I don't think they start thinking that and then they're crafting it. So it's like, you know, it has the look, it has the same consistency. Now the consistency matters. Now the taste matters. Now let's add and inject this, and then it's just like, it just gets kinda to a level now where we have to reassess this. It's not beneficial. No, I don't think it's nefarious at all.

Yeah, they're not like, let's kill people. I think it's inevitable in a capitalist society. Yeah. Where it's like, you- Where a consumer asks for something, and the producer makes it. We're driving this. That's the real drawback of capitalism is that you have to regulate, It's like you. Where a consumer asks for something and a producer makes it. We're driving this.

That's the real drawback of capitalism is that you have to regulate yourself. A moral society is required for a free society. Not 100%. Because we'll just keep giving you more of what. I mean, I'll make the argument moral society's required for all societies. But it's also required for a free society

because producers give consumers what they want. What do consumers want? Tasty, desirable, fast food. That just means the education needs to be there in conjunction with it. We have to have that as part of the experience. Well, what's crazy is when you look at the brain scans of people who consume lots of processed foods,

the brain adapts in similar ways to how the brain adapts to drugs. So the executive functioning, the reward system of the brain gets altered. And here's what this means, by the way, because we think of it as just in relationship to food. When the reward system of the brain is altered, it essentially brings it, it numbs down its signals because it's being hit with something that's super stimulating for lack of a better term. That means that your reward system is altered for everything. It's not like it's just for food.

You now have a brain that has been molding and modeling itself after foods that have drug-like effects, but this affects everything. This will affect all your relationships and your whole life because your brain's different. Is there anything... That's by the way, one of the reasons why, when they take people... There was a study that showed this. They take people off processed foods and bring them to whole foods and they control for calories.

There's a 25 to 30% risk of mental health issues. Oh wow. Wow. Dude, yeah that's substantial. Is there anything that you can see right now that we're unaware potentially? Like, okay, so like go back, you know, 40 years or whatever like that when none of us, when we were like, again, the processed food market was like,

this is a great thing. This is like, we can now get food to places where people can get food, we're saving lives. Nobody is even thinking consequences are bad about it, right? Television, oh my God, we can communicate across the world with this thing and share news, like this is so amazing. No one saw, no one was talking about the potential consequences at that moment.

What is happening right now that is developing or happening and we're celebrating and we're not even thinking like where this could go? AI? AI, 100%. Is that it? Yeah, I would say AI. And I would say these new drugs that are being produced that will help you lose weight, potentially build muscle.

I don't think people realize the consequences. I've been thinking so much about the AI thing because recently I told you my story with my brother-in-law and just how sophisticated it is, and it's like in a very short period of time, I mean, it's really easy. We used to talk about, you know, why know how to do long form any math anymore?

I mean, everybody has a built-in calculator in their pocket at all times. Like, why spend- We just moved over here and we're like, ah. Why spend any years of school? Like, once you understand how to use the calculator, like you're good. Like why learn any of the long form math,

and we've all accepted that, like no big deal. Like the thing with AI is it does so many things like that for you. I have an analogy I think that might help. It makes sense. Imagine if you had on a mechanical suit on your body, and it was so advanced, you couldn't even tell you were wearing it,

and it functioned like muscles. So now you're three times as strong and it did everything for you. Cool, I don't have to exert myself to do anything, but what's gonna happen? Atrophy, everything atrophies. Exoskeleton. I think the part. Our brains are gonna shrink.

Are we gonna get dumber? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And they'll put chips in there just to take, replace the function of it at some point, right? Because that's really where this is all going, is the transhumanist stuff. That's right. So if you're not doing math,

so maybe the calculator's way better, it just gives you the answer, it's faster. But if you're not practicing math, if you're not practicing these things, yeah, your brain just, it prunes that off. So now you don't, you just, your brain doesn't think the same. Yeah, when you, when you're, I don't know if this is like getting in your 40s thing or not, but it's like, I catch myself even noticing that. Like, I always, math came easy to me. I like math, I work with a lot of numbers a lot of times, but even because I just don't practice and use it

to the level that I did 20 years ago, some of the most simple multiplication that I was, I used to be like this, like I have to really stop and like, yeah, is that right? And then I question. It's no different than getting directions. You know what it might look like, you guys? So it's funny, I remember, god, a long time ago,

I was 16, my dad's dad came from Sicily. I think this was his first time ever leaving the island. He came here and I remember him watching me work out in the backyard, we had a weight set in the backyard, and he came out and he's looking at his hand on his hip. We had a weight set in the backyard. And he came out and he's just, he's looking at his hand on his hip. Think of an old Sicilian man, right?

He's like, okay. And he starts scoffing. He starts laughing. And he goes, when I, he goes, I think it's funny that you go outside to lift heavy things and not build anything to work. He goes, you know how I used to work out? He goes, I used to do, I used to work.

Lift heavy rocks. Yeah. So I wonder if it's gonna be like It's gonna be like people are going to do daily daily exercises for their brains Yeah, because otherwise their brains are hard work simulators. That's it Yeah, it is so funny when you think about we're all gonna have to go to school Yeah, like for just on purpose. We have to intentionally. Yeah seek out hard things like that. Well, what are the potential side effects of your brain atrophying? It's not just that you maybe, I'm going to speculate here, but I think I'm right.

I don't think it's just that you forget the process of doing math or you forget how to navigate because now your phone navigates for you, you forget how to do these things. I think it may have wider ranging effects like more anxiety, more depression, less positivity or ability to have any kind of complex thought. I think it's all connected. Which is it's like built-in dependency, you know, like it because of, you know, talking with Mike Isertel and like his sort of like comments, like it kind of resonated. It's like, you know, at some point you're going to offload all these things like chemically Neurologically like you're gonna have chips

You're gonna have these things that replace normal function that your body's already, you know Fully capable of doing you have to stress and battle test it all the time So that way you keep it strong and active and relevant and it's like we're not doing that Like what do we become at that point? Do we once we outsource all that, do we do other great things that we don't do now though? That'd be the optimistic view, yeah. Right, the optimistic view is that,

okay, I don't have to worry about this stuff anymore, therefore now I can go do these other things that I would've never been able to. Well yeah, like we build buildings bigger than we used to, but we're left with bodies that are immobile and unhealthy. So I don't think it's gonna be, I don't think it'll be a devoid of side effects. I think we'll be able to accomplish great things with AI

and stuff like that. That's exactly what'll happen. I mean, your average person now can become like this really sophisticated mechanic, for instance, my brother's example, right? It's a, and then one solar flare and we're dead. You ever listen, yeah, you ever listen? I always butcher his, his name, but like me, Michio Kaku. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

and he was on Rogan. He was talking about like different civilizations, like, and how like it, it requires a certain levels of advancement with intelligence and, and, um, like where you harness the power of the sun, the new power. And so it's almost like, you know, with AI, this becomes like an entirely new development of power. It allows us to expand and like the expansiveness is going to take over new industries. So I look at it more of like, this is why they're pushing so hard with like interstellar

travel spaceships and all this kind of stuff where it's like I think that's gonna be the selling point is to really like push our society so we're we can reach further this is this that's optimistic it's the bullshit selling point right I'll tell you why okay it's all self-worship I know I'm just does humanity right now no new advancements no new advancements does humanity right now if every individual was was like, this is important, do we have the ability right now to drastically change the world for the better in a way where it wouldn't even be recognized? We do. We don't need no new technology. If everybody right now was like, we're killing it right now,

let's do things for each other, let's love each other, let's care for each other. Just pause, it would actually do better. It would do, yes. So I think that's bullshit. Oh, more technology is going to make life better. No, no it's not. Human behavior isn't going to change. Unless we change it, that's not going to change. So it's just going to be more self-cultivation.

I mean we're already proving that's not true. Because with depression and all the other things that are on the rise, as we have more, can do more, so we're already proving that. It's only going to accelerate. I mean that's what I think is going to be interesting is that it's... on the rise as we have more, can do more. So we're already proving that. It's only gonna accelerate it. I mean, that's what I think is gonna be interesting is that it's... Like at what point do we go?

I would've never thought it would happen in our lifetime, but now I believe in our lifetime, we're gonna see that point where you can have everything. We can do anything. Like with chat GPT and whatever that looks like, model 1000, you'll be able to build, have, create anything that you want, and everybody's gonna be miserable as fuck.

Crazy. I wish I could communicate this better because there's no way possible, I think, that somebody will understand this unless they've experienced it. But just from a fitness perspective, the majority of the benefits you actually get from exercise are not the muscles and the fat loss, it's actually the process. It's like all the stuff, if I look back,

how I grew through the process as a human being, through the struggle and learning and body worship and weight that's not right and health and let me learn and pursue this thing, that's where right, and health and let me learn and pursue this thing. That's where like, those are the life benefits. But you try telling that to somebody who's never gone through that process, like yeah right dude, let me get the, let me look good.

Like always, I think there's people that reject the norm and everything. I really do believe we're gonna have this split of plugged and unplugged. I don't think I'm gonna even split. You don't think so? No, I think it'll be such a minority. I think you're gonna have a vast majority of people that are like embracing and then a small minority like Amish like it'll be like the Amish people but

different. Yeah you know it's I mean I think about this sometimes like you know back in ancient cultures they they had philosophers. Basically their whole job was just to think of these things. Yeah. And they just would really ponder these deep questions about humanity or, or just about like where we're going. And I just feel like that's, that's a lost art. And right now it's even more relevant. I wish we had like Greek philosophers and stoics and people that were popular and they're really

expressing this information to people. You have to think about these things because if you don't think about it, it's the slow drip that you just end up becoming... Agreed. Yeah, you just get consumed by it. Yeah, 100%. Podcast. I know.

People having these conversations. This is the last hope. Long- form conversations. Yeah. Anyway, so we're heading over to Vegas today. Yeah. Because I'll be speaking at the peptide congress tomorrow. You're gonna have a huge crowd. 1500 people or more. Yeah. It's all scared. I get more. I definitely I get zero nerves when I'm on camera if anything it calms me

I could be nervous about something else but in front of a crowd You say all that and you crush every time so it's always funny to me But definitely that makes me feel a little bit more more nervous Yeah, you and I are so opposite when it comes to that you much rather speak to a crowd much rather be in front Than being on camera. What it is for me, it's the it's the it's the the feedback like But it is for me, it's the feedback. And I don't know if that's just because I've always naturally been comfortable with talking to people in general,

whether it's one-on-one or multiple. And as I'm up there, I can see how you're receiving what I'm saying. Is this working or is this going over the head? Yeah, am I talking too fast? Am I losing you? Do I sound stupid? I feel like I can read that on your face when I'm up there, where when I'm like this,

I have no idea and it's my own self, my own head messing with your own inner dialogue. Oh yeah, this just way. So that inner dialogue can happen to me more in a crowd. Oh, so you're weird. What am I doing with my hands? Like am I standing on my own? You get stuck in that?

I just adjust. Whoa, whoa. You get stuck in that loop? Oh my God my god we start listening to yourself. Oh, yeah Oh, no, well, I remember that was that was this for the longest time It took a really long time to to really forget the cameras were there and that you know And stop thinking about there's tons of people that are listening to it Well, the positives are I'll say this and this and this is strange, some people might not make sense, but the crowd is gonna be made up of doctors

and healthcare practitioners. Yeah, that would actually probably scare the shit out of me a little bit. That is the most, for me, it's the most comfortable audience. I know, you'd get more comfortable. I'd freeze and just be like, ah. I love, I. I'd be like, they're judging everything I'm saying right now.

Yeah, bro, I. I totally mispronounced that. Because I trained be like they're judging everything I'm saying. Yeah Because I trained like like I had such close friends Oh, yeah, you throw out you thrive in that in my super brilliant people that I worked with you So I feel you thrive in that environment. Yeah super comfortable. Yeah doing that But you give me like a regular crowd and like oh, yeah. Yeah, see now that's I'm all about That'll help. Yeah, yeah Yeah, see now that's I'm all about are you guys that'll help yeah, yeah Just picture Justin naked that always helps. Oh, yeah

What if I did I know what you're looking at why is he making that face? Oh, no, he's picturing Justin make it. Yeah, don't make that I've definitely I don't know if you guys did I load it cuz we have we've got like two different cocktail our days. So I loaded up on RZ biotic. Did you yeah, yeah You bring enough for us. No, I did not Expensive per bottle dog my family raids it every time you so much money you made Stupid I have like they're hard to get exactly. That's it. It's less about the dollar amount what it is Everybody takes them before I can even have them. They're, they're, they're, we, I don't know. The most like, uh, what is the wrong word? Maybe, I don't know. Popular thing that we have amongst our family and friends.

We have a lot of family come over and my whole family has been introduced to them now and they're, and Katrina's family in particular, right there. And there are drinkers and it's, I have, I keep them at my bar in my house and they just, I just go through cases of them and I get more mad when I, cause I need them. I need them at my bar in my house, and I just go through cases of them. And I get more mad when I, because I need them. I need them.

They don't need them. They like them. You're professionals. Exactly. Like they were drinking before these things. I didn't drink before Z-Bio. Because you felt so crappy. Yes.

And so it's like, I need it. And so I get more irritated with that when I don't have access. It's less about the dollar amount or what that it's More like I gotta go buy another shipment of it. And so that I'm still a little stingy. So for people aren't familiar So this is a pro bot. These are bad. It's a probiotic. It's poor by drink, but these bacteria have been modified to break down Acetaldehyde in the gut.

So acetaldehyde is a byproduct of alcohol. And when it gets to the liver, unless your liver is like strained and stressed from other reasons, typically, or you drink a ton, your liver can break down the acetaldehyde and process it and you're okay. But some actually gets released in your gut. And then it gets into your bloodstream. And acetaldehyde is not good for you.

It's actually more poisonous for you than most chemicals. It's really poisonous. My theory, Sal, correct me if I'm wrong, I mean what I think is going on between, because we have this massive genetic variance between people. There's a gene. Yeah, I believe that Katrina can process that faster,

better than I can, And that is the difference. And it puts me on the same playing field if I can take that. If I can take that, it's like, oh, I get it. I get how you can enjoy that many drinks. Because I can't enjoy that many drinks without feeling terrible afterwards, unless I have that. No, I can't find the... I wrote it down.

There's a gene that some of us have, and then there's a variation of the gene where you really don't break down acetaldehyde well. One of the signs is flushing. So you know what they call it, Asian flush, where. Yeah, you get the red cheeks. Yes, so acetaldehyde is like a poison, so all it does really is the probiotics from Z-botox, they in your gut, and then when the acetaldehyde

gets released in the gut, it breaks it down. Yeah. So you don't get much. much for whiskey, huh? I mean the gene came out wrong. I Got the scotch in the whiskey That's hilarious all good speaking of alcohol, so I looked up so we're mentioning Rock Recovery Center So by the way great great So I looked up so we're mentioning Rock Recovery Center. So For all you alcoholics if you if you drink alcohol responsibly So I talked to Tom yesterday this is a problem Oh you did yeah, I got on phone with Tom and I love them and Tom and Ben good people they I got on the phone with Tom and I love them. Tom and Ben.

Good people. That's why we work with them. They really give a crap. Really, really give a crap and go out of their way to help people. So anyway, I was on the phone with them and we were talking about, I'm gonna have them come back on the show

and talk about one of the subjects that I thought would be so good for them to talk about is how friends and family members of addicts, how they actually hurt the process. I didn't realize how big. That's a really, that's a tough conversation. Family members are the biggest enablers. Dude, so I look at.

And understandably, because it's real easy for people on the outside, if you've never been around it, I've been around it enough times to see it, and boy, it's when it's somebody you love, and the choices, and it's- It's heartbreaking, dude. When you are that addicted, right, to the point where you need to go to potentially a recovery center,

you've reached some pretty bad lows, to the point where if you do not enable them, it could lead to them being homeless. And like on the- That's the problem. And that is like for, I mean, think about your, your kid. Yeah, your kid or sister, brother, family member,

and you being like, I need to not enable them, but that also means I need to make peace with, they may end up being on the street, or they may not have a place to like, that is easy to say from outside of the head. I couldn't imagine. Right. I couldn't imagine. So that's number one is enabling. So providing money, shelter, resources

that allows them to continue. So oftentimes it means I'm not paying any of your bills. You're not going to live here if you keep this up. And that can be hard because I couldn't imagine, I could not imagine doing that to my kid and then something happened to them because they were on the streets. And then you thinking like, what did I,

what did I call, that's the fear, that would be the fear at least. But that's the bit, and the number one. Then there's denying or minimizing the problem. And so people will just oftentimes downplay the severity of it. Oh, they're just stressed, or it's just this, or. You know how, what helped helped me so with this and

there's there's there's lots of levels of an enabling too doesn't necessarily have to always be with an alcoholic or a drug addict like you can enable in somebody with finances and other things too and and I had a I had I trained a therapist and I remember this was in my 20s and I was sharing with him one of the things that I was struggling with, enabling somebody, and a family member, and he basically put it back on me that the real driver of doing that, I wrap it in I love them, or I could whatever,

but it's actually selfish. Oh, you talking about like when you, like financially supporting family members who are bad with money. Yes. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it's no different. No.

It's you, you would feel awful, and so the reason why you do it, you don't wanna feel awful, therefore I'm gonna do this so I don't feel, yeah. It's a, and so, and if I really loved them and I really wanted to help them, I would do the right thing and stop enabling them. That's right.

And it's really hard to look at it like that when it's your family. You think, I was very conditioned to like, this is how I was. Yeah, family always helps. And they do, but that's not helping them. And so learning, like reframing that, like I'm doing this and it's truly selfish,

even though I say it's not, I say it's for them and I'm helping them, but no, it's to make myself feel good if I helped them. And so when I had, when I reframed that, sort of look at that, it helped me get through, it's still hard, right? Still, it's not like, oh great, now it's easy. It was still hard.

And then when you watch it unfold, and then months and then years go by of you not enabling anymore, and you realize they figured it out. And it's like, oh, but it's so hard to make that transition. It is, there's so hard to make that transition. It is, there's a category that covers that and kind of, that's enabling but it's also called

overprotection or rescuing. So this is like when you shield them from a consequence. Like dude, if you don't help give me money this time, like I'm gonna lose my house. They're like, well I can't let them lose their house. Or I need you to bail me out. That happened to me, that happened to me. There was a friend of mine, I can't let them lose their house. Or I need you to bail me out. That happened to me. That happened to me. I had, there was a friend of mine. Uh, I won't say too much, but they were somebody that I had mentored.

Let's just, I'll just put it that way. I mentored them. They achieved a particular position at their job, uh, through my mentorship. And I felt very closely connected to this whole process. Then they started exhibiting signs of addiction. This was something they had struggled with before, but it kicked it. They started exhibiting signs of addiction,

and I tried helping them, tried helping them, and I got a phone call from this person, because they hadn't shown up for work, and they were gonna get fired, and they were like, I need you to bail me out. And so, I did bail them out, but the deal I made with myself is, I'm gonna bail them out this one time,

and I'm never gonna, I'm gonna cut my connection off, and that's it. Because this is it. After this, they have to figure things out, and I did. And I cut the, I cut the, it was really hard though. Super painful. But then I bet they were okay after. I don't know.

Oh, you don't even know. I really cut it off, because I knew myself. I could easily I could get I could get you know, pull back in through Empathy. Yeah, I mean you start to feel bad or whatever speaking of your 20s I had this thing that I wrote down that I wanted to ask you guys And we'll start with 20s So if you had only two words to describe your 20s, what would you say? Doug, you're playing this game.

I know it's a long time ago, Doug, but you're playing this game too. I don't remember that. When was that? Doug. He said, he wanted horses and. Uga, buga. Uga, buga.

I'm going way back. Fire dinosaurs. You're worth two words that describe your 20s. Yeah, they describe your 20s. Super adorable for Doug. It's gotta be. Stop it. But there's a picture, remember that picture you shared? It was like, you're in a leather jacket. It was from like the eighties. Oh yeah yeah, you know he's got the camera Selfie ever done. Yeah, it's a great picture You want me to start I mean anybody can start like whoever who gets whoever gets two words first I have mine if you want to wait, but I was just say for me was Confusion okay, that's one and then adventure. Okay, I like that confusion I was gonna say for me was confusion. Okay, that's one.

And then adventure. Oh, okay, I like that. Confusion and adventure. What kind of, hold on, hold on. We have very similar, ours is similar actually. I wanna know what your confused adventures were. Well, those are two separate words. Oh, okay.

You have a bunch of different words. You know what, mine was lost and fun. Yeah, lost would be, that's it. Lost and fun was mine, so that's interesting that's it. Lost and fun was mine. So that's interesting. I was very, when I say confused, I had no direction as far as where I wanted to go with my life.

I graduated from university, and I just wasn't happy with what I was doing. And that's what prompted me to go to Japan. And that's what led to the adventure. Yeah. Mine would be recklessly ambitious. Oh, that's what led to the adventure. Yeah. Mine would be recklessly ambitious. Oh, that's good. Just ambitious to the point of destruction.

And destroyed relationships, and just didn't spend, wasn't there for my family. But I was just on this mission without any realization of the repercussions that it would cause. Yeah, for sure. I would say optimistic and naive. Oh. Mainly because I was very,

I had this thought of, I wanted to accomplish something big and I wanted to get involved in something. I didn't know what it was. I was just like, I'm gonna do something great. I had these huge visions for things, but was super naive in how to accomplish it and was like just spinning my wheels.

You just reminded me of something I have totally slipped my mind for, I used to say, I used to tell people that my goal by the time I was 30 was to work at McDonald's. Because you're gonna be so rich. Yes, and I wanted to. Bro Because you're gonna be so rich. Yes. And I wanted to.

Bro, you and I sometimes are twins. I used to, anyway. It always throw people for a loop. They'd be like, what? Yeah, because you were gonna follow it up with. Yeah, I was gonna follow up with it. Because I'm gonna be a millionaire. That's right.

That I would have already retired. I don't wanna retire because I like to work. And then I would. Also work at McDonald's. Yeah, so I have some bullshit job where I push a broom. I don't have to, it's mindless and fun for me and I meet people and like, I got all the money I need. Like I, and I, bro, I tell you right now,

I believe with all my heart, I was gonna be retired by 30. So did I. So did I. So did I, dude. That's so great. I mean, I, I mean, I retired. How stupid were we? No, I, same.

I did, I did. Well, your neighbor thinks it happens, so that's good. Yeah, your neighbor thinks it happens. Well, I'm a little past 30. Okay, so what were your two words for 20? I said lost in fun. I was lost in every aspect, spiritually, financially, women. I had it all wrong. But running in that direction. Oh yeah, but thought I was having, yeah, yeah. Thought I knew what I wanted money-wise, thought I knew what I wanted woman-wise,

I mean, thought I had it spiritual-wise, I mean, so I was lost. But it was a lot of fun, making all those mistakes. So I look back at the 20s and go like, I did a lot of cool shit and had a lot of fun. But I also, I mean, what came with that was a lot of, you know, a lot of tears, a lot of hardship, a lot of mistakes, a lot of...

People listening who are in their 20s right now, the reason why it's fun in hindsight is because you shifted. Oh yeah. You imagine? Staying there? Yeah, no, horrible. No, you're right, you're right. Yep. Yeah, yeah. It's all hindsighting there? Yo, no, horrible. No, you're right, you're right. Yep.

Yeah, yeah. It's all hindsight. Fun, but I learned from it. Yeah. Otherwise it wouldn't be fun. And like Doug, I like, you know, fun, because I did a lot of adventurous things and tried a lot of stuff and found out that,

like for example, you know, ironically, we're heading off to Vegas. Like man, I was so into Vegas in my 20s. Like that was, I was there every month I was on Vegas. And just, now I hate it. Me too. It's like, I don't even like it. You know what I'm saying? But I actually afford it now too. Yeah. Yeah. That's the idea. I could do it better today. I could do it so much better today than I could in my 20s. But I, I think I, I wanted, I thought I wanted it then so bad, and then when I look back now, but it was fun learning that and figuring that all out.

So what about 30s for you guys? Two words for 30s. That's an easy one for me. Oh really? Oh yeah. Let me hear. Painful lessons. Ooh, God, how similar are some of the words

that we're using? Yeah, that's a similar one. Lots of painful lessons. The repercussions of my 20s. Are you gonna use that as one word or two? Two, two, because there's a lot of pain. And there's a lot of lessons, a lot of, and most of, all the lessons were painful

because I think that's just how a lot of us learned. That's how I learned. Yeah. I learned by touching the stove oftentimes and burning myself, and that was, I got divorced, you know, we started this business. There a lot of like I like okay. This is not what I thought things are different than what I had imagined and then just the pain of Trying to figure out what direction I go. How do I how do I turn this around?

We share a little bit very similar to that But I would I guess my two words that came up were perseverance and reality But I would I guess my two words that came up were perseverance and reality Just you know as far as like the first words. I was like naive, but now it's like reality has set in I Was married you know newly married? and then pregnant and then We were living at her parents house, and I was working like two, three jobs. And it was just like this, oh my God, I'm setting out to do, to create a career and like a livelihood. Now I have, you know,

somebody to support and I have to get my shit together. I have to be an adult and I was like, Oh my God, running, just trying to do all the things, man. And it was, it was just reality set in and it just was like persevere I just put on you know blind the horse blinders and persevere. Yes, but you Doug Yeah, I'm sure you're gonna take one of my words and make it dirty, but Experimenting okay. Yeah and searching. Oh, I spent a lot of time in my 30s really trying to define what was important to me I like that. Minor growth and happy.

Yeah, I think a lot of those things, a lot of things I was lost in in my 20s, I found in my 30s, including Katrina, and then a lot of the things, everything from the spiritual thing, the money thing, that all really came. So I got a lot of growth, and what came from that growth was a lot of happiness.

My 30s were really happy. I had really good 30s overall. But I definitely think there was a lot of lessons in there too, so I share the lessons thing. You know what's interesting about this conversation is I think in each, because now we're in the middle of 40s, right, so I don't think you can define it yet. Well, I was gonna ask you 40s,

because I have a different. Yeah, but we're not even half, we're halfway through. Think about, like halfway through my 30s, very different than the back half, right? Halfway through my 20s, very different. So who knows? That's for me, what I'm getting out of this is,

I don't know what it's gonna be like. Because I wouldn't. Well, do you have. I thought I did. Okay, do you have two wanted to be one word then. Well do you have one or two words that define how you currently feel in your 40s? Cause I definitely do.

That are way different than the other ones. Yeah. I would say. Mine are calm and confident. Yeah I was gonna say peace. I was gonna say peace i was gonna say peace uh and faith or i either calm and confident or calm and grateful yeah that's i would use those two yeah so see so very different than your 30s and 20s now maybe it changes but i mean very different yeah what about you justin well yeah it was similar i'm grateful

but it was like uh also i wanted to say wiser or like just more of an understanding. Like I feel like there's a lot more data points there for me to really see patterns and, you know, avoid like major pitfalls, which I would have totally fell in before. So I think that's new and it's, you know, it brings that calm and it brings that type of like feeling. Yeah. You've been through them. So let's hear it. Yeah.

Purpose and clarity. Oh yeah. Purpose. Of course, that was when Brianna came into my life and the clarity was really clear with respect to my career because I was very lost a lot of my life as far as what my work would be, and then Mind Pump was introduced in my 40s. Interesting that everyone's different, but similar in a way.

You know what's really interesting about this too is that people, how often people talk about how much it sucks to get older? No, listen to our words. They get pretty better. Well here's why, because of their health. Their health is why they hate aging. Yeah. It's because if you can maintain your health. Yeah, that's true. I don't know about, I know you guys probably feel the same way. I look forward, knowing how much I grew from my 20s to 30s, 30s to mid 40s, I look forward to where I'm going to be in my 50s and 60s and beyond. It would suck with poor health, that's the thing. But wisdom with good health,

that's amazing. I wouldn't go back in time, no way. Knowing what I know now. How much different, Doug, is your 50s to your 40s? So I feel like my 50s, I feel like there's been more surrender in my 50s. Interesting. You know the reality strikes as you look in the mirror because I really started to notice things change as far as my face etc in my, in my fifties. Even though in a lot of ways I feel like I do in my twenties or my thirties. Yeah. Except this last week I've been, you know,

fighting some type of sickness, but yeah, I feel those, like the reality of aging has hit. You know, I never felt like I was getting older at all and then in my fifties it's like, here's the reality, I'm getting older. Yeah. Has that started to cut you off, but it just poses another question. I want to ask you like, has that shifted the way you think or do anything differently because of that? Excuse me. Yeah, I believe so. I mean, I'm a little less, let's just say anxious to get everything done. I don't know. I just, I feel like I have better pacing now. And it's just

this realization. It's like, you know, what am I trying to go for here? What am I, you know, time is going and time will be gone so you gotta stop and smell the roses a little bit here. Most valuable resource. Yeah. Yep. Because you just, you never get it back. Oh yeah, yeah and every single billionaire says that

when they sit on their debt bank. What's that old proverb, it's like man will waste his health to get wealth and then man spend his wealth to get back his health. Yeah. I really, I mean, I wish, you know, obviously this is our show, but like, it's pretty deep. Stay fit and watch and take care of your health,

and aging will be just this wonderful adventure. I mean, my way I would wrap this is, be healthy, be present. That's what comes to mind for me. Be healthy, be present. That's what comes to mind for me. Be healthy, be present. Like those two things right there, I feel like that's how you smell the roses, that's how you be calm, that's how you enjoy the moment,

that's how you value time over money and stuff. And then health, because if you're not healthy, then it doesn't matter how- That's all you think about if you're not healthy, then it doesn't matter how. That's all you think about if you're unhealthy. Yeah, because that's all that matters. So take care of this one body that you get. So take care of that, and then of course,

the aging process, I think, from the sounds of what everybody has communicated, just continues to get better. This is why I think one of the most rewarding careers, and there's lots of types of jobs that'll do this, but I think one of the most rewarding careers for somebody who understands this is to be a fitness or health coach or personal trainer.

You can really shift and change somebody's life with what you do. It's so profoundly rewarding if you can figure out how to create a career out of it. It's incredible, it's one of the most amazing things. Speaking of that, we're still taking applications. Oh, mindpumppersonaltraining.com forward slash apply. If you want to be a mind pump trainer or coach

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most popular drink mixed flavors with any purchase. Back to the show. Our first caller is Leslie from Florida. Hi Leslie. How can we help you? Thank you for taking my call. I will start by saying this is a hint outdated because I originally sent in the question so some things have transpired. For reference, I was a former Orange Theory junkie. If I wasn't high intensity, I felt like I was doing nothing. I do a lot of Pilates.

I wasn't walking very much. I have a sed of Pilates. I wasn't walking very much. I have a sedentary job. But I've always been active and into nutrition for at least the last probably 18 years. I don't drink, pay attention to my macros, high protein, all the good stuff. The bad stuff, I have a pretty significant surgical history. So I've had five surgeries of nine orthopedic surgeries, but five in the past two years. So my question kind of revolves around recovery and going from sort of no muscle in my legs to building muscle and figuring out how to go

from deficit into maintenance. So between surgeries three and four, I started focusing on step count. I went back to more traditional weight training, progressive overload, primarily upper body because that was really what I could do most. Everything for the lower was PT. I was able to get to my goal weight in that time, doing a deficit, but I clearly lost a ton of muscle even though I never really had a lot in my legs because my knees have

always been really bad. I've always been in and out of a deficit in between the surgeries to accommodate the lack of the output. So as I'm coming back from surgery and I'm kind of wheeling out of PT and more into, so I don't skip leg day anymore. I'm doing a really solid leg program and I'm feeling the strength coming

and I'm starting to gain muscle, but I'm sort of in that place of, where do I find maintenance? I probably, because I'm sort of in that place of, you know, where do I find maintenance? I probably, because I've been in deficits off and on, I, listening to you guys more recently, I'm only sort of new to you in the last few months. I probably might need a little bit of a reverse diet, but I kind of, I'm 5'9", I'm 133, I'd like to maintain this weight, but also while I'm re-cumping, but I also recognize when I,

as I'm building muscle in my legs, the most muscle area that I've never really had, that I'm gonna need to do a significant change in my maintenance calories. Yeah, everything you want at the same time is not gonna happen. Yeah. So your body weight.

You're in a great place though, because you haven't been training your legs. And so you stimulating them again is going to be like a novel stimulus. And because you actually have muscle memory on your side, you're going to build muscle even faster. So that, yeah. So honestly, might be overthinking the reverse diet portion of this too much. I mean, I'm going to tell you to eat when you're hungry and feed, make good choices, whole food, but let's eat. Let's eat and just pay attention.

The problem is with your background, and I'm gonna guess that that's difficult for you, that you always, you probably have a challenge with gaining weight, especially when you said, I'd like to, I'm 5'9", 133, and wanna stay the same weight while I recomp, but build muscle and get stronger, but reverse diet, but don't and get stronger, but reverse diet, but don't want to gain weight, it's not going to happen.

You have to reverse diet, you're going to have to, you should probably gain weight, gain some muscle and go into surplus or none of that's going to happen. You're not going to be able to build the strength, you're not going to be able to get the metabolism faster. So I would have, you were my client, I would have you go on a controlled bulk. I would have you eat in a surplus and that I would have you eatin' a surplus. And that's what we would focus on for a little while. Are you tracking your calories now?

Do you know what you're consuming now? I am, and I actually just had a DEXA and I had an RMR test done last week. I just got the results for her, so it gave me an idea of what my maintenance and or deficit and or surplus calories should be. I don't know how, I don't know how to interpret, I mean the test was great,

it gave me a good place to start. It's probably about where I'm averaging right now on a maintenance standpoint. I do track, I do eat a lot of protein, I'm very much heavy on the protein. But yeah, I'm probably only still even tracking around 1600. Yeah, no. Told you. I knew it. I've trained a lot of people like you, Leslie. So you, okay, so okay, because we know that this, we're over complicating what we need to do here,

but to Sal's point, you're going to be your biggest enemy getting in your own way. And so one of the rules I'd have for you if you're my client is no scale and no body fat testing for a while. Is trust the process. I'm going to bump you to 2000 calories to start because you could easily go up to 2000 calories and let's ride that for a few weeks and see what we feel and see in the gym. And all we're watching is strength coming up. I want to see those, the leg muscles build. I do not want you on the scale because if it goes from 133 to 138, I don't want you on the scale because if it goes from 133 to 138, I don't want you to freak out because that's probably where we need to go right away. That's not a big deal. And you're only, you're going to build muscle. You're at such

a good place to accidentally eat too much. Because if you accidentally eat too much, it's going to go right into building all that muscle. It is not gonna pile on the body fat, but if you are gonna be measuring, tracking, weighing yourself every day, and you're gonna get in your own way. Here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna build muscle, your clothes are gonna feel tighter,

you're gonna freak out, and you're gonna cut back down on your calories. Don't do it. Yeah. You need to go, by the way, it's compromising your recovery. 1600 calories at your height is compromising your body's compromising your recovery. 1600 calories at your height is compromising

your body's ability, your knees. It's compromising your body's ability to regenerate and to strengthen your hamstring. Yeah, so 2000 calories is right, have you go. And you'd have to weather the storm because you're gonna feel uncomfortable, it's gonna feel different, and we're gonna get stronger. And I'm gonna guess you're still over training.

How many days a week are you strength training right now? Five. Yeah. But I do Pilates, I do active recovery, and I do only, when I do interval training, it's five sprints for two. Interval training, interval training two, Leslie? Leslie, you are an avatar of clients

that we've trained many, many times. So you're overtrained and you're underfed. I would have you strength train two days a week or three max. It would be real strength training, controlled tempo, good technique, do a set eight to 12 reps, rest for three minutes, do it again,

interval training out the window, especially with your past surgeries, no, no, no. I would just do steps. Pilates, if you're really attached to it and you love it and you got the community and it's great, fine. Otherwise, I'd tell you to stop doing pilates as well. And then bump your calories and watch what happens. But you're gonna have to weather the storm

of feeling uncomfortable before you start to embrace the fact that you're actually building muscle. Leslie, are you in our private forum yet? I am. I am. I've not spent a lot of time in there. I had originally posed this question in there. Walking, I'm doing steps.

So the minute when you can't walk for a long time, like steps become like the most exciting thing in your life. So I'm walking, I'm only like 10 to 12 average. I did like a month contest in April and I'm only like 10 to 12 average. I did like a month contest in April and I was doing like 16,000. I'm like, I don't wanna do that much. You have no idea,

because you're underfed and over trained right now, you have no idea how amazing you're gonna feel when you go in the other direction. How good you're gonna feel. And get through the scary part. I keep saying that because that's gonna happen. It's gonna be your roadblock because you're gonna be like, I'm feeling thicker or oh no

what's happening here. Let me go back. Let me train more. Let me eat less. If you weather the storm, I mean you would be the perfect candidate to work with a coach. I was just gonna ask you, are you open to having like one of our coaches take you through this or are you dead set on doing this yourself? I work currently with, I don't know if you've ever heard of NeuroFit. It's a muscle stimulator. So one of my days of training is with this machine that has really helped with my, it has helped dramatically. Actually, my first knee replacement, I didn't find it for three months and the second knee replacement, I started it at week two. And

the improvement in the recovery has been dramatic. So I'm ready to break up with him. Because I don't think I need the stimulator anymore. No, because what that did initially is it helped those muscles fire post-surgery. Now you're gonna be training, so you'll be all right. Just promise me this, I'm gonna have one of our trainers call you and help you, but promise me to listen to him,

okay? Promise me you will, and we're going to be checking in. It's going to be scary. I promise you it's going to be scary. But when you get through it, when you get through it, you're going to be like, oh my God. You see somebody talk through the whole time. That's going to be super helpful. You're going to progress so well. Yeah, I think the permission is what I needed a little bit because I was so stuck between

I have no muscle and I know I need to eat more to get the muscle, but like how much more? And like you said, I'm at a place of like going from nothing to something, so it's only upside. It is all upside for you. You have incredible potential right now. If you follow the steps and trust your trainer, this is gonna go really well for you.

Just that's the thing. Life changing. Don't add anything to what they tell you to do. Trust the process. We're gonna be right there with you, so let's let's do this together and I have full confidence you're gonna be really happy. Let's do this too Leslie. Let's have you back on in three months. That way you know that you're gonna come talk to us again. Yeah. Let's do that. Alright. I would love to hook up with a trainer so yes please.

We'll set you up. Let's do it. We'll have you back on in three months and it'll be a great conversation. Yep. Very good. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. All right. I see. Excited for you. Thank you. All right. Tell me she's not like an avatar of so many women. Yeah, it was a great call. I mean, when she first was, when I first answered, I'm like, this is very simple. You're in a very easy, good place, but it's not going to be, it be, it's a simple advice, but very difficult to do for someone like that. It's gonna be scary. She's gonna eat more, she's gonna feel thicker, her pants are gonna feel tighter.

If she weighs herself, her weight's gonna go up. Oh my God, what's happening? Cut my calories, ramp up my exercise. By the way, 2000 is just the beginning. She's tall, she's probably got a good lean body. She's gonna be, she's active, she's gonna be way higher than that when we're done. Yeah, that's gonna, yeah, she's tall. She's probably got good my lean body mat. She's gonna be she's active She's gonna be way higher than that when we're done Yeah, that's gonna be 26 struggle is gonna be working out less and eating more

Yeah, both at the same time is gonna be a super scary But if I great position to do that Yeah, it's all with the fact that she hasn't done anything for her legs and so long when I had clients They'll respond almost me I've had so many clients like Leslie and if I could get them to trust me, that was the challenge. The challenge was, can they trust me and go through this? When they did, it was like earth shattering, life changing for them.

When they didn't, it was so difficult because they had to trust me to get through that process. Yeah. She'll be her own worst enemy if she does that. Literally, this will be her gets in the way, but she has so much potential. Our next caller is Laura from California. Hey, Laura how you doing? Hi, hi, so excited to be here. Thank you guys so much. You're my heroes. I'm a PE teacher, high school PE teacher here in the Bay and I found you guys like a year ago and it's just been great. I've been using your programming and I want to kind of incorporate hopefully

something with my students. So my question is, I have mostly 14 and 15 year old high school students in PE, ranging from low fitness level to the D1 athlete, which makes it really hard in PE. As part of our fitness program, we kind of like split up the kids in the fitness center, like half will be doing cardio, and then we'll be working with other kids on lifting. And it just kind of

gets monotonous because we do the basic, you know, squat, deadlift, lunge, that kind of stuff over and over, mix it up a little bit. But just wondering if you guys have a program or might recommend something that one of yours or something else, you know, the teenagers have the attention span of a nat these days. So it's hard to get them, you know, motivated, excited. And, you know, of course the athletes get excited

or some of them actually are too cool for PEP. So it's hard to get them. So yeah, so that's my question for today. This is a great question and thank you so much for calling in Laura. I have so much respect for what you do because you have to balance out what is going to be best for them physically and also is this going to help them develop a relationship with exercise where they'll like it. What's going to make an impact? Yeah, because sometimes what's best for them, they don't want to do, it's boring, you've got to force them and it's not really going to help them otherwise, right?

So that's the balance. So I mean, almost any exercise done properly is going to benefit them. The main thing I would say to focus on, I've trained kids, I've trained, I've done groups of kids and what I found initially when I would train them, it was like, no, we're going to do the best thing and then they'd lose interest and it wouldn't be great and I'd see them kind of fall off. And so later it was really about like, how do I make this something that's enjoyable? And so I would do things like,

you know, like a single leg toe touch, for example. Great exercise, posterior chain, good for stability. So then what I would do is I would turn it into a game and I'd throw, I'd drop pencils on the floor or something and I'd say, let's see if you can beat me. And I'd go down and when you touch the floor, you lose. Let's see who wins and I'm gonna put you in groups of three and whoever wins at the end,

we'll find out who the winner is. And so they're competing over who can do the most. So I would turn it into stuff like that, that would kind of make it a lot of fun and I would also choose things that weren't, cause it's easy to get them to compete with like strenuous stuff, like who's the fastest or who's the strongest,

but that immediately gets a lot. And those aren't really the kids i'm Trying to reach right and a lot of kids are yeah the ones who are going to love doing that already You don't need to worry about them and the ones that struggle with fitness really. I don't want to see how fast I am I'm slow or yeah, so I would turn it into like balance Games and you know games that require a little bit of skill that also involve Um, you know some strengthening so that's kind of the mindset as far as movements are concerned I think mobility is gonna be your best bet with the kids. So like Maps Prime Pro type stuff Is gonna benefit them the most?

In the short period of time that you have them. I also like Taking a single movement and then breaking it up into parts and And that ends up being like a whole teaching or class. For example, I could see opening up and talking briefly about the history of the Turkish getup. Where did, where did it come from? Why did they do it? Why is it so good? And then breaking that movement up into like eight parts, cause it literally is like an eight part movement where you break each part up, everybody practices that and you critique and you kind of teach. Okay.

Then you add the next second part, teach that, then you combine the two, then you add the third part and you, so you can literally take a movement, like a complex movement like that, break it up into, you know, five, eight sections, teach each section of that and then string it all together as one movement to get everybody to do it properly. And then maybe you have some, you know, fuel kettlebells there or something that they have to hold over their head

and see how strong some of the kids are doing that. That's an option. Anytime that you can turn it into play, I do think that that's a win. I think where my PE teachers, I think, go wrong is when they try and put to formulate this big long workout that just the kids lose interest because it's too many. Too many things that they're already not interested in. So I've seen far more success with teachers that have just like, we're just going to teach this one movement and it's going to be all about the squat and all the and everything from preparing for it with your ankle mobility and your hip mobility to breaking up in three different sections and pausing at the bottom and pausing

in the middle and pausing at the top. Like, yeah, I think that you're better off doing things like that. And then you could add some sort of a challenge. Yeah, you can combine both of what you guys are saying easily. And that's kind of what I've found is was most successful when I had the high school groups and again, even though they're athletes at the it varied so much in terms of their skill level. And so how do you manage all that?

Well, I would start to kind of pair them off with people I felt like were appropriate ranges for them or groups. And, you know, just having that that other peer to kind of be able to learn to how to look for the right things and how to like guide them in terms of their form, but also have them kind of pause and stop and make a challenge out of it. And so you turn that into an isometric challenge and I got to hold this position.

And then the next person kind of replaces them and then they can see time-wise like, who was able to kind to handle that more appropriately. And just to break up the monotony on some level, you really mess with tempo. You can mess with taking them outside and doing crawling challenges. And there's a lot of different things you can do to change up the environment. I think that's really important, but still stick with the monotonous type of exercises, because it's really important that they learn those.

Yeah, and the games that you would pick, you could look at different kinds of skills so that other kids have an opportunity, or different kids have an opportunity to do well. So there's balance, there's stability, there's endurance, there's strength, there's body weight. And then it's like, some of the games that you could do, you could say, hey, if you have really good balance,

if you think you got the best balance of class, raise your hand. You get the dude, raise his hand, okay, I got really good. All right, you come up here, and who has really bad balance? And then you pull them up, say, all right, here's what you're gonna do, you're gonna stand on one foot and see who can stand the longest. Then you tell the guy or girl with really bad balance, and then you pull them up. Say, all right, here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna stand on one foot and see if you can stand the longest.

Then you tell the guy or girl with the good balance, now close your eyes and do this, and they're gonna fall. And then you're gonna say, hey, did you know that keeping your eyes open contributes to your balance? They're learning things and finding cool things about what's happening. You can also do tests like stand on one foot

and I'm gonna push down on your arm and you'll fall over. Let me do it again. Look how much better your balance is. Your central nervous system just adapted. So it's cool stuff like that. Call of body challenges is a good one for core and just learning how to control your entire body from your fingertips to your toes. So you know another way that's a really tough challenge and you can kind of break that up. There are also physical, like, I don't know if you call them challenges or tests, that females do better than males, which is always great to do with a class.

Like, there are certain, just because of the way our body's shaped it is, you can say, hey, put this stick down and step over with both legs. You could find this on social media. And women do it, like no problem. Guys trip over themselves just because we're built differently. Yeah, hip mobility.

Everybody will laugh about it, like what's going on here? Have you seen that? Have you seen the paper bag challenge before? No. OK, so you start off with a full-size paper bag, and you do the single leg, and you have to pick it up with your teeth. And then you tear a layer off, and then it's got got to go lower and it's like, let's see who

get the lowest on the paper bag challenge. And so everybody gets a turn to try and paper bags are cheap. So you get a bunch of those and put them in groups and then the kids can have fun doing something like that. You could look up paper bag single leg challenge, you'll see a bunch of stuff. The other one I remember in high school was the quarter challenge of using, I mean, right now, Sal talks about this on the podcast all the time, how we're declining in grip strength, right?

It's one of the indicators of overall strength. We've been watching that just rapidly go down. So great thing to kind of teach our kids that, listen, this is what's happening to our societies. We're getting weaker, weaker. Grip strength is one of the ways we measure that. Here's the quarter challenge. You get one of those little hand grippers that are cheap and put a quarter in there and see who can hold it

the longest and then you keep that record up on the board. And so, and then you teach a couple exercises that are good for grip strength, like farmer carries or movements like that. And then challenge the kids to try and, you know, see if you can beat your time for the year after, over the whole course of this, whatever. And then go back to the challenge.

So there's a lot of stuff like that you can look up. But the, but the, you can like that you can look up. But have fun with it. You can look up boy, you know, men and women differences with exercises. And you can find, there's one like, if you stand up against the wall, keep your butt up against the wall, but go down and touch your toes, guys will fall forward.

I saw that, yeah. Right, so. I've seen that one. And if they don't know that, they'll try it, and everybody's gonna laugh, because the dudes are gonna fall over, and you're gonna say, well here's what's happening here's why women tend to be able to do this and it's just cool stuff that gets them and they're all

gonna get excited to test it out all the guys like I can do it you know that's gonna develop a relationship that's more likely develop a relationship with activity that isn't scary doesn't make me feel like I'm not good enough or whatever and it's it's different it's different and they also get to learn things while they're doing it. I think that's the most important thing to focus on as a teacher because it gets them engaged. So those are the things I would look up the most. Not so much how do I get them to squat, deadlift.

That's all great, but I could really imagine the challenge of getting a class of kids to want a deadlift and then get interested in it, you know? Yeah, we do let them, towards the end of the year, kind of have free time sometimes and I'll walk around and then I can really work with the kids who are totally into it. Miss P, can you teach me how to deadlift?

I've seen this. It's so funny, and the trends with deadlifting, I mean, that is huge now. When I first started teaching, no kid wanted to deadlift. It's so funny. Yeah, so you can even say something like, today I'm gonna teach you guys an exercise

that gives you a big butt, huh? And then you show them the movement. There's that cool broomstick challenge too, where you start with the broomstick behind your back and you have to get up. You've seen that before? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's another one that girls tend to be able

to do better than guys can. It's a fun challenge. I mean, you could probably look up a list of fun fitness challenges. I will. And then I think what I would try and do is always have some sort of a basic lesson, whether it be grip strength or mobility or core strength,

and then have a fun challenge. So I teach how important it is. I show an example of a fun challenge on it and then we practice and have fun with it. I think that is a far better strategy than trying to put together like an awesome workout because no kid's going to appreciate your awesome workout. But I will say out of all of our programs, the one that will have the most movements that I think you could pull from would be Maps Prime Pro. That's the one that I, if you don't have that, we can send that to you by the way. Yeah, I don't think I have. I just have, I just finished 40 plus, which probably wouldn't be the best for them.

And Bustle Mommy, I just started that. Yeah, Prime Pro is great. Yeah, Prime Pro, you'll be able to pull the most from. It requires no equipment and it's something that you could you could have the kids go on the floor and do different movements and stuff. Great. Yeah, or you take one compound lift. I don't think there's anything wrong with teaching them compound lifts and how to train. You just have to sell it. Yeah, you just got and just simplify. Like just make sure it's that one movement and then you can add these challenges

to compliment the rest of the entire class that you have left remaining. So. I do believe though that you have one of the hardest jobs in the world though, so I just wanna put that out there. Just so everybody knows. Yes, people think that teaching PE is easy. No, no, no, no, no.

Kids do not. Attention is crazy. Teaching kids fitness is difficult. One-on-one it's difficult. I only got one kid. So in a group setting it just throws a whole other curveball. So I mean a lot of respect for what you do. Yeah, thank you so much. Those are great ideas. I can really see using the challenges. The kids will like that.

Absolutely. All right, keep us posted Laura. Thank you. We'll send you Prime Pro, okay? Thank you so much. Thank you Laura. Thank you, we'll send you Prime Pro, okay? Thank you so much. Thank you Laura. Okay. You know, if you think of, this just goes across any, for any class, when you think of the classes

that impacted you the most, besides them being a good teacher that really cares, that's of course paramount, it was the teachers that kind of made it engaging and fun, like of course. I had a science class, the experiments were just so, and the teacher was so animated, that everybody got involved, you know?

Because they're passionate, and it's contagious. I had a math teacher, I hated math, hated, hated, Mr. Christiansen, I hated math, and I would, you know, I'd pop in, and I was smart enough to get by, so I just didn't give a crap. And I remember one time, he called me out, he was like, Sal, you never pay attention.. He's like do you like math? I said no He goes I tell you what and he knew how to get me

He goes if you can beat me in arm wrestling You don't have to keep coming back to class the rest of the year You just got to show up for the test now. I'm a you know, I'm a sophomore. I'm cocky as hell I'll beat him in arm wrestling and I went up there. He beat me in arm wrestling He was ex-collegiate wrestler a little that I know and and I showed up and but he engaged me Because of the fun of it. And the whole class had a hoot. I mean, we've had this question a bunch of times,

and every time I always go like, man, it's easy for us to sit here in our podcast. Well, imagine a whole year of trying to be fun. Yeah, bro, it was, that's what I mean. Like, challenges only last so long. And that's why, to your point, at some point. You got to have a base, like a foundation of what they're getting out of the class

And the learning and so they can so the ones that and that's the thing too It's just impacting kids with the value of it. Yeah in knowing that it's valuable So that way maybe they're not into it, but at least they they learn the skill of it So that way maybe down the road they get into it or whatever you you build something with them That's why a great move, if she can do this, is do a challenge to make it fun, get everybody laughing, engaged, and then teach a movement or two that compliments it.

Yeah, related to that. So hey, a lot of people were falling over when they were doing the single leg touch, well they don't have a lot of hip stability and mobility and strength, we're gonna do these 90, 90s, that's gonna improve. Great idea. going to do these 90-90s. That's going to improve. Great idea. So you do a fun, engaging thing.

Now they're engaged. Now they're engaged. Now teach one to two things that bring value to that movement, and then you just build a whole semester around stuff like that. Our next caller is Jessica from Idaho. Hey, Jessica. How are you? Hey, guys. It's nice to see you again. Hey. Yeah. How. How are you? Guys, it's nice to see you again.

Hey. Yeah. How can we help you? I was on about three months ago, a little over three months ago, and you guys challenged me to have to take in about 300 extra calories to break through a plateau. Yeah. Continue on anabolic. So I'm just checking in with my progress. Oh, let's hear it. Yeah, Continue on anabolic. So I'm just checking in with my progress.

Oh, let's hear it. Yeah, let's hear it. All right. So the, the challenge itself was easy. Um, I just kind of looked for some nutritional gaps, um, focused on being consistent with my food. And, um, I stayed off the scale except for one time at the doctor's office when I just popped on chatting to the nurse and glanced down and was reminded not to panic, but it was higher than I was used to. But other than that, it was pretty easy.

I did, however, have tendonitis when I talked to you last time that I had been ignoring. So when I took, I took a little bit of a step back. I'd ignored it for about six months and it was starting to affect my bicep and my mobility and my, and my shoulder. So I went with PT, definitely needed the accountability there. And so my goal changed a bit from just progressing to healing and then the gains would be a bonus. However, in all, I think it went great. I think it went great. I don't know if you guys have a copy of my email there. I do. I'm guessing that parentheses is where you you were and then to the right of that is where you're at Now it looks like everything there everything went way up everything went up like significantly your deadlifts went up 20 plounds in two reps Your squats went up by four reps everything got stronger your tendonitis got better. It says it went away

Yeah, I'm doing great on the tendonitis. Yeah, and I gotta say, increasing calories based off what I remember our last conversation, that probably also helped the healing. Being in a low kind of calorie environment makes it more difficult for your body to heal from injury. Of course the correctional exercise made a big difference in training properly of course. Also, just by looking at you,

you're really lean still. Yeah. What did you ever get on the scale? Do you know how much you took in up total? Yeah. I wanted to talk to you about that. So this weekend I got on the scale and I'm happy to say I was disappointed that it was low. I'm happy to say I was disappointed that it was low. Because I'm about the same weight I was. So when I thought of that, I thought, okay, I didn't want to get leaner because I knew I was in a healthy spot.

And I did want to build muscle. And so I didn't want to stay the same weight, but I thought it through and I think I have kind of an idea what happened. I think I was in a bulk initially. That was evident. My cravings went down. I was feeling good with my lifts, but the weather got nice and I work harder and I play harder when the weather gets nice outside. So I think what I needed to do was just trust my eating a little bit better and, and increase, be willing to increase.

So I think I went into a bulk, but then my activities started going up. Yeah. And slowly that became maintenance. And then when it was about six weeks ago, when I finished anabolic and I transitioned, I went over to MAPS 15. And at that point I started pulling out, pulling back that extra food.

Because I know oftentimes it's just in your head, but you do feel like, oh, I probably need to pull back and lean out a little bit. And in reality, I probably didn't. No, no, definitely not. You're stronger and you look real lean right now. No. No, definitely not. You're stronger and you look real lean right now. I'd say keep going up. Yeah, bump your calories more.

And I don't think you're gonna gain much body fat. I think you're just gonna keep improving with your strength and your body shape. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay, yeah. This was a great opportunity for me to just get some confidence in that through the process. So

if you have some time, I would like to go over a question with you with my squats. Yes, sure. Okay, so I'm just going to read this because it's kind of sensitive but relevant. And I'm going to try not to overshare. So six years ago, and post eight babies, my pelvic floor and core were so compromised, I couldn't safely squat at all. In fact, I had to make daily decisions between pushing a shopping cart and vacuuming the floor. If I expected to be vertical to make

dinner come evening, PT and accommodations kept me relatively active and functional until we finished having babies. Then after exhausting all the other options, I had a hysterectomy with substantial repairs. Surgery took away the debilitating symptoms, but strength would have to be earned starting from ground zero and perhaps negative considering functional strength wasn't even there. Post surgery, I have dealt with and deal with pelvic floor tightness, pelvic floor spasms, and I've had physical therapy here and there.

One thing that surgery couldn't fix and I didn't anticipate dealing with was fear. I had spent 10 years with red flags going off in my brain to caution me from moving in ways that would require me to be flat on my back and consequently prevent me from remaining functional for my family. So the squat position was a no-go for a long time.

As I progressed, I made it a priority to allow the limiting factor to be my ability to appropriately connect and support my core. In the squat world, I began with movements that felt safer. First the split squat, then the goblet. A year ago was the first time I put the bar on my back. To this day, I'm still confronting fear when I approach the bar. Mentally, I

do feel like I'm overcoming and my back squat has progressed from just the bar to 90 pounds, which finally caught up with my split squat weight. But I have run into what feels like the end of my ability to maintain safe core bracing under load. I continue to work for work and I've tried different methods like squatting every day but unfortunately when I overdo it I get pelvic floor cramping and that's as bad as it sounds. I have noticed that core bracing is beginning to be a limiting factor in my deadlifts as well. So currently I am backing off weight and focusing extra on form and slowing my tempo. In researching core bracing for squats,

it's often described as creating abdominal pressure recognized by lateral pressure pushing out, not bracing by drawing the belly in. For years creating this type of pressure was literally the enemy of my functional existence. Now I'm second guessing if I am executing correctly at all or perhaps my bracing is becoming a limiting factor to progressing.

So do you think that I should continue to pull back and allow my core to be the limiting factor? Do you think I'm just dealing with fear and it's something to mentally overcome? It's probably a little bit of both. Yeah. It's probably a little bit of both. It is. And I would, so for bracing, because it's always a question, like how do I brace, especially after pelvic floor imbalance or surgery,

there's the muscle recruitment patterns change and it's almost like you have to relearn it. The best way I got people to figure out how to brace would be like if somebody was gonna poke you in the stomach or punch you, how would you brace your gut or your core? That's how you brace. So you would just brace, you wouldn't necessarily draw in, you would also not you brace. So you would just brace. You wouldn't necessarily draw in. You would also not necessarily push out. You would just tighten. So that would be the way

that I would brace. And it is okay to let your core dictate the weight that you use, but slowly challenge yourself. The fear that comes post-injury is real. Not only is it real in the sense that it makes exercises scary, it also causes pain. This is what a lot of people don't realize. Pain is so complicated, it's not just a physiological phenomena, it's also a psychological phenomena. So people can actually feel pain because of pain felt in the past and because of fear of injury. The only way around that is the same way that you, I don't know if you're familiar with exposure therapy to people like fear of spiders and they'll start with like a cartoon spider and then they'll picture of a

spider then a video of a spider then a stuffy and then little by little they get close to an actual spider. So it's gonna be very, very incremental. They actually sell magnet weights that allow you to go up and weight by half a pound at a time. And so you can literally add a magnet to each side of your 90 pound deadlift and go up to 90 and a half pounds. And you can practice that. And take it super slow and you'll eventually get your yourself to a place where it's not so scary. I mean I love what you intuitively already did which is you know you didn't push the weight up you just slowed down the repetition and really focused on

core bracing like so this is an example of you know two different clients I'm coaching one client I'm coaching is not you. And we're talking about deadlifting. And so all the cues are related to getting more lift and getting heavier in power and speed. I'm training you and this is our focus. It's like, I'm talking to you about your core the entire time. Like it's, are you bracing there?

Are you staying tall? How do you feel like, and it's all related to being able to engage that core through the entire movement. And now can I keep that same weight that you've been able to do, slow it down even slower, maybe even pause in the middle of the rep and hold and brace the core and then finish the rep. And so I'm going to be doing things like that with you.

And that is a form of progressive overload. Because if you were doing a regular tempo, say, of 90 pounds or whatever, and you're afraid to go up in higher weight You staying with the same weight, but slowing that tempo down is a form of progressive overload You will see benefit from here. Have you ever done any tension squats or a dumpy squat? Yeah, I think that would be very valuable in terms of priming before you get into the squad itself is just just that's the entire focus is how to brace for the entire rep from every single angle of the exercise and just you know taking more time to not necessarily be so concerned about load that's obviously the biggest

concern is like when when does that when when does that release happen where you feel like you know you're not able to brace and maintain that. So, you know, to go through that and just train that for a while builds up the confidence that like, I have this and that the feedback there is real for your body now to feel comfortable that it's all accounted for. So I'm gonna throw a curve ball at you, Jessica.

So I need to ask you first, I'm gonna assume, and correct me if I'm gonna throw a curveball at you, Jessica. But I need to ask you first, I'm gonna assume, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you are hyper aware, because of your past, you sound very smart, sound like you know what you're doing, you're hyper aware of your core activation while you do exercises. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I'm gonna throw you a curveball.

I don't think you should focus more on your core. I think that's part of the problem. So I think hyper more on your core. I think that's part of the problem. So I think hyper focusing on your core is actually causing more issues at this point and it's I think you need to trust more that you're going to be activating your core. So rather than sitting and focus with that which is exactly what I would do with you in the beginning. In the beginning I'd be like we're focusing on this, keep this tight, Are you bracing? But I think you've done that for so long and so much that it's now become a hindrance. So you might wanna get into a squat,

go lighter than 90 pounds, maybe go down to 50 pounds, and then see if you can squat without thinking about your core. And trust your body. And slowly get to the point where it's not like this hyper focus. I've had people with histories of point where it's not like this hyper focus. I've had people with uh histories of injury

Where it was de-habilitating we got out of the that that point everything looked good Movement looked good, but they were so hyper focused on the the joint that they couldn't progress And so I had to find ways of getting them to stop thinking About the area that they're so focused on and I think that might be you j you, Jessica. I think what might be a good idea to practice and try is go light and don't think about bracing your core like you normally do and just go into it and just practice squatting. Okay.

Does that resonate with you? Am I, is that what you think might help? I think you're spot on. I think it's worth a shot for sure. Yeah, because that hyper focus in combination with fear is gonna get you to feel a lot of things that might be scary or might not even necessarily be there. Like even people watching right now, if I got people to close their eyes and focus on the right hand, they would start feeling all kinds

of things in the right hand. Coldness and itchiness and tingling and I'm not comfortable. Hyper awareness can actually cause like hyper body awareness, which is not common. Most people are not aware. But hyper body awareness, it can happen after an injury and that can make people so cautious that they actually cause problems. You feel like you are bracing as you're doing it, right? It's really just a few kind of seeps in. Yeah, oh yeah.

So then, Sal, I would agree with that. Yeah, it's an interesting point. I mean, it's like a golfer gripping the club too tight. It's like a race car driver gripping the steering wheel too tight. It's like relax. Trust gripping the club too tight. It's like a race car driver gripping the steering wheel too tight. It's like relax. Trust that you've practiced this skill a thousand times and you know what you're supposed to do

and loosen up the grip a little bit. So I mean I think it's good insight. Sounds like he hit it. So that absolutely could be going on where you are. You're just gripping the steering wheel too tight and you need to trust that you've put the work in. If it's happening, it's there.. Yep and all you gotta do is just go lighter just go lighter and then practice it without thinking so hard

about everything. Do you think there's any benefit to changing the depth of the squat right now? I'm like just to turf you know know, all the way. But, um, it's probably the hardest for me at 90, really. And so I wonder, I know, I know I heard you visit with another gal that was on your podcast and you told her she's probably resting when she gets to the bottom. And so, and I'm like, maybe I am. I don't think so. I mean, I think I keep momentum when I go down. Not a bad strategy to lighten the load and doing some of your sets like that. So I still think there's value in going full range of motion, but then have some sets. So let's say we do four

sets of squats today and two of them, I'm going to go full range of motion and two of them, I'm going to shorten the range of motion up. Here's what it would look like. Because if you feel like you're keeping tension, you probably are. Because of your experience and the way you're talking, I don't think you're sitting at the bottom of the squat relaxing, I don't think that's what's happening. So the way it would look, and your sticking point is at 90?

No, she's not sticking at 90. No, I go all the way. I have full depth. You said something about 90. No, she's hard for 90. That's what's hard for. It's about that spot that it feels like it's hard to overcome. That's what's hard for. That spot that it feels like it's hard to overcome. That's what I meant. Okay so here's what you would do. You would do a full squat,

go lighter. You would do a full squat and you would pause in the middle. So you'd come up and you'd hold that part that's hard for two seconds or three seconds or five seconds and then come up. But use a weight that allows you to do that. And it would strengthen that part of the range of motion that you struggle in. That would be the easiest way. You would want to kind of squeeze a bit right there in the middle when you pause. Just to re-emphasize muscle recruitment. That's it. Okay. Super.

Awesome. Great job. Do you think, I'll be brief, but I am curious, that this doing a bulk and then doing a cut the way that I did it was very, very new to me. I normally I'm hanging out in the maintenance zone. I've realized that. Do you think that's the most efficient way to build muscle? I know that, you know, you can just slowly increase your calories or you can do kind of many books and many cuts, but that changing gears just in my mind would take more time, um, adjusting, like maybe you wouldn't build quite as good as a strict

bulk and strict cut. Do you have any opinion on the efficiency? Yeah. Yeah. So, so a big part of this is the psychological aspect of always being in a bulk or always being in a cut. So changing gears tends to keep it fresh and new and it tends to help with consistency.

Okay. Physiologically, there's not a lot of data to support some data that kind of suggests this, but I have a personal opinion, and I think that the muscle building effect from being in a bulk for too long starts to waver, and I think being a cut for too long starts to reduce its fat burning effect.

And so I do like going in and out. I think it's mostly psychological. The truth is, the ideal world, you would hover in this around maintenance most of the time and when you feel good, you eat more. When you feel strong, you eat more and you go off of how you feel and allow the body to... That's ideal.

Problem is, psychologically, that's difficult for people. They're questioning themselves. How do I feel? I don't know right now. It's boring. Yeah. So it's easier to go, all right, next four weeks, I'm on a strict bulk. I'm just going to add X amount of calories.

And what happens in reality, and you already saw what happened, sometimes you were probably in a maintenance or even deficit. Other times you were a little bit in a bulk, ends up at the end of it, you weren't really much of a bulk. So psychologically, it might be easier for someone like you to go, OK, I'm going to go on an aggressive 500 calorie bulk for the next three or four weeks, and then cut back down. But reality is the perfect world is actually not really doing any of that

and kind of living more intuitively and feeding the body when it feels like it needs more. And when you're, you're getting good strength gains, you've got a great workout, give it extra calories, times that you're less active and you didn't get a good training session in, pull back a tiny bit. Like that's kind of the ideal world. That's just a little bit more difficult. Most of my clients that were in your position I would bulk them leading into the holidays because it works great with the holidays and they

would start a little cut leading into summer because that's what they were interested in and then everything else was around maintenance that just just worked well with lifestyle yeah good so it's about sustainability I mean sustainability always trumps that's right right. That's right. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Okay. All right.

Well, thank you so much. I feel encouraged and I can have a little bit of a direction to go and I just, I appreciate your time. You're doing great. You're doing great. Your arms and delts look amazing. I can't believe you have eight kids. I remember you said that's phenomenal.

Great job. Very impressive. Thank you. They're awfully proud of me. They should be. They should be. My husband too. You should hear him talk about, you know, I mentioned I was going on this podcast and he's like, no it's like, you know, THE podcast. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much. Hey, Jessica. Take care. You got it. What a badass. Yeah, no kidding. So awesome. She got bicep veins. She's got eight kids. Yeah, you know what she was saying about pain is you know, the over emphasis on like a part of the body

It's not common, you know, typically when we train people it's like disconnection. I can't feel this and focus here Can you feel this but you know based off what she was saying? You know, that's something you hit on the head. So just gripping the steering wheel based off what she was saying. That's something you hit on the head. Just gripping the steering wheel too tight. Hyper-focus. Over-over-over-thinking. Yeah, and you overthink.

And that's very much a real, like that's why I brought the analogy of race car drivers and golfers. It's a very real analogy for somebody who knows all the form and the basics. It's just like you're gripping it too tight. Loosen up. You've done the training.

You know what to do right here. Now trust it. Yeah, trust the process. Look, if you like the podcast, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump if you like the podcast come find us on Instagram. Justin is that mind pump Justin? I'm at mind pump to Stefano Adam is that mind pump bad? Thank you for listening to mind pump

if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and Maximize your overall performance check out our discounted RGB super bundle at mind pump media.com The RGB super bundle includes maps an, maps performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other

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