Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2632: Supplement Wizard & Organifi Founder Drew Canole

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

 Supplement Wizard & Organifi Founder Drew Canole Where does he get his ideas? (1:25) Multi-dimensional mindset. (7:10) How do they make these compounds taste so good? (9:04) His newfound obsession with protecting his daughter. (12:50) A 10+ year partnership. (13:44) The biggest shift in the supplement space. (15:44) The formula for staying relevant and authentic. (16:47) Pro-regulation or not? (23:01) Drew’s health crisis. (28:10) His homebirth experience. (30:20) Post-traumatic growth. (32:36) Leveling up as a human. (38:28) Changing into your Dad clothes. (40:08) How has becoming a father changed him? (44:45) Technology and children. (51:49) Capturing your audience. (54:09) The scary fertility downward trend. (56:05) Nature is the greatest healer. (59:27) The Organifi typical avatar. (1:03:19) Customer first. (1:05:16) Balancing diet & workouts with your current stage of life. (1:09:33) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off** Visit Eight Sleep for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump Listeners! ** Use the code MINDPUMP to get $350 off your very own Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is that you still get 30 days to try it at home and return it if you don’t like it – – Shipping to many countries worldwide. ** July Special: MAPS Split or Anabolic Metabolism Bundle 50% off! ** Code JULY50 at checkout ** Mind Pump #1945: How to Formulate a Supplement That Works With Shanais Pelka Mind Pump #2337: Is Hidden Household Mold Making You Sick? Arsenic, Lead Found in Popular Protein Supplements Peter Levine on Trauma Healing: A Somatic Approach Building Muscle with Adam Schafer – Mind Pump TV Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest/People Mentioned Drew Canole (@drewcanole) Instagram Website FitLifeTV - YouTube Mike Matthews (@muscleforlifefitness) Instagram Jordan B. Peterson (@JordanBPeterson) Twitter/X  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pumped. Today, we have Organifi Supplement Company founder, Drew Canole. He's a supplement wizard, so I had a lot of fun talking to him. In fact, this is one of the few people I can really geek out on with supplements.

He's also a great guy, this is a fun episode. His company, of course, is Organifi, and if you go through our link, organifi.com forward slash mind pump, use the code mind pump, you get 20% off any of the products he talks about this episode and all the rest of the products. Now this episode is brought to you by a sponsor, 8 Sleep. This is the most advanced sleep system in the world. Sits on your bed. AI technology controls

the temperature of your bed to help you sleep better. It's individualized. There's nothing like this in the world. Go to 8sleep.com, spell out 8, so 8sleep.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump and you'll get $350 off your very own Pod 5 Ultra. We also have a sale this month on some programs. MAPS Split and the Anabolic Metabolism Bundle of Programs. All of that 50% off. If you're interested, go to MAPSFitnessProducts.com

and then use the code July 50 for that discount. Here comes the show. Drew, welcome back to the show. Rock and roll July50 for that discount. Here comes the show. Drew, welcome back to the show. Rock and roll, thanks for having me. I gotta ask you, dude, so you do such an incredible job of bringing supplements to the market and then everybody follows your trend. The example I'll use is Shilajit.

When you guys sent us the Shilajit gummies, I remember us, these guys, I was so excited because I was familiar with Shilajit. Justin, I had no idea what the hell it was. And a lot of people didn't know what it was, but it's been around forever. It's been used in Ayurvedic medicine forever. Thousands of years.

There's studies that support the hell out of it, and I'm a supplement dork or nerd, and so I knew about it, and so when I saw you do that, I'm like, oh, this is gonna be. Game changer. And now I see everybody trying to sell Shilajit. Yeah, there's a bunch. But where do you, are you, is this you?

Or do you have a team that does, because I've talked to you and you really understand supplements, the history of them, what works, what doesn't work, where do you get these ideas? We have a wonderful team. I have a formulator in-house, she's amazing. Think Harry Potter, Hogwarts, graduated.

She's awesome, Shani, who literally her and I get on the phone and we bounce back and forth. What's going to help people the most? What's going to help our friends, our family? What trends are we seeing as far as where do people need healing? Where do they need internal healing? So she legit mitochondria, energy, cellular respiration, weight loss, testosterone.

I mean, there's so many clinicals around it now. It just blows me away looking at it. It's like you can take one supplement. Do you reverse engineer it though like that? Where you guys are talking on the phone and you're like, these are the things, okay, now let's go look at all the things that have been around.

What's available. What are people searching for? What's available? What's an innovative method to put it together? Because she legit, TAR has been around for a while, right? Of course, monks and masters would go up in the Himalayan mountains and get this stuff and it would give them more energy. But how can you create it to where people crave it? And that's when we decided to put it in a gummy with a little organic cane sugar,

which you need sugar or you need sugar alcohol to form a gummy in the first place. But this stuff, I mean, it's like Mother Nature's Botox. I get messages every day from people that are blown away with the results of Shilajit. Yeah, but there's more to this, because you seem to hit it at the right moment, because again, Shilajit's been around for a long time. Why hasn't anybody, why didn't anybody bring it to market like you guys first?

You did the same thing with the Happy Drops with Saffron. The data on Saffron and its effects on depression, anxiety, it's like a natural. it's like a natural SSRI almost. It performs better, 28 clinical trials, it's better than most of the SSRIs. Why wasn't anybody else selling it like you guys? How come you were the first one? You've done this so many times.

There were pills, there was saffron pills that you could get for like 100 bucks. But we're like, what are people actually gonna take? And we put it in a gummy, craveable gummy, and we wanted to add a couple other things, passion flower. We wanted to add gota cola, which is an amazing adaptogen for focus and reducing racing thoughts, which everybody has now with all the noise and the blue screen and everything that we're

up against. And then ginger, which helps with cognitive function as well. So we put that into one gummy and I'm blown away. The testimonials, I've shared some of them with you. Yeah. It lights my soul up because we are in a mental health crisis. We've seen it. And it continues to go up. There's no stopping how many disorders there are that people

are dealing with, low mood, depression, anxiety, all of it, especially in a lot of young kids I've seen, more than ever. Yeah. The other part of it is you're saying craveable. So that's another thing that I just, I think about you often with this is the whole putting things in a gummy, right? Typical supplement company would be like, nah, pills,

let's not add any, you know, one gram of sugar or whatever. Yes, candy, like. But you hit it when you look at the data, even on prescription drug or medications that people are supposed to take, they just don't. Yeah, they forget about it. They're just not consistent. It's not fun.

You're more likely to give it to your dog than yourself. Yeah, there's studies on this where people are more consistent with their animals and their meds in there with themselves. And you're like, you know what people will do? They'll eat a gummy, this will make them consistent. And then from a business standpoint, they're gonna use it more, they're gonna get better benefits.

Again, where did you get that? Well, it's gotta be fun if you wanna form a habit with anything. So you have the disciplined guy that can, like you out here, deadlifting 600 pounds. That's the disciplined cell. But you also have this cell that every once in a while, I don't know what your crutch is, but maybe you like pizza. I'm a pizza guy.

My last name's Canole. So I'll talk to the disciplined guy and be like, hey, we're going to work out. But then the lazy guy that's in my brain too, it's like, hey, you're going to have a pizza after this, or you're going to have a cheat day, or whatever it's in my brain too, it's like, hey, you're gonna have a pizza after this, or you're gonna have a cheat day, or whatever it is, a cheat meal, because I don't really do cheat days. But the gummy works for both.

So not only are you getting the nutraceutical of the happy drop that tastes great, you're craving it, it's a habit, but you're also lighting up your reward center in your brain, you're improving your mood, you're increasing serotonin levels. So it just works on all fronts. And that's what we're seeing in the data.

Yeah, this is like a long-term trend for you, like your flagship product. Green juice. Green juice. Green juice was it too. Which nobody- The first, in my opinion, the first good tasting. Well, it still is the only glyphosate residue free.

There's a bunch of organic ones. And it's also the only one that has 600 milligrams of ashwagandha, which has the clinical trials. So me, I know you're a clinical real-world evidence. That's you. If I think about Cell, it's like, we need real-world evidence here. Otherwise, we're wasting our time.

So green juice was that. So we looked at the clinical trials of the ashwagandha, which, by the way, taste terrible as well. So how can you put it in a green juice that either tastes like apple juice, which is our mint flavor, or that tastes like a sweet mint matcha beverage. You know, so that's what we did with the green juice. Isn't the word for Ashwagandha,

doesn't it mean something like horse pee or something like that, because of the smell that it could bring? Yeah, horse, like something like that. It's supposed to make, like horse stallion, it's supposed to make you as strong as a horse. And also taste terrible. And taste.

It smells like a musky horse. Yeah, it's not good. Is what they would say. So yeah, so tell me about this process for you, Drew. How long have you had this passion? Because you have this unique ability, this is what I'm getting at. You have this unique ability of actually,

you see what works, you understand what works, you know people's psychology, and also how to hit the trend right from a business perspective. Like, what is that? It's a multi-dimensional mindset. So you're looking at more than just one, and that's my lever.

My biggest lever is like removing my consciousness, if we wanna call it that, looking at the whole entire industry, looking at what's worked in the past, looking at levers that we can pull now, and then combining them all together. So I have a marketing knowledge. I have a knowledge of where the audience is going

before they're going there, which I think every visionary has to have. You guys have that. And then putting all that together in something that people crave, something that's a habit form. And also trying it on my family first, getting real world testers out there, the testimonials that we have coming in before we ever launch it into the marketplace.

Colostrum is another one. If you look at the leading colostrum, some of the big brands, I won't mention the names, but it's only like one or two grams of colostrum. Right. And if you look at the data, you need five to 15 grams a day to actually make a difference. So we were the first to actually have five grams of organic bovine colostrum that tastes so good. There's no artificial flavors. There's no sweeteners in it. There's no fillers at all.

So you're paying for what you're getting, which is the colostrum in the first place, five grams. And this stuff is so craveable, you guys. I literally take scoops of this, dry scoop it, put a little water in my mouth, and it's like dessert. It's like eating ice cream at night. And I'm healing all four layers of my gut with colostrum. So if you look at the research around this,

that blows me away. It's also a prebiotic in the gut, so it helps fill those tight junctions. And it fills all four layers of the gut, which most people have leaky gut now, you know this. It's a huge problem. And colostrum's one of the best things for that. Yeah, yeah.

And so who do you have on your team for the flavors of these things? Shani's a wizard. She literally lives on a mountain in Florida. And she's got her own. She sent me a photo of this. She's got beakers and all this other stuff. So imagine this mad white witch in her thing coming up

with stuff. And then, of course, we use co-manuring and like formulators to actually make it taste good. But it starts there. It starts with the passion. How many times you gotta fail before you get one? Oh, 50, 60 times. A green juice was like a 55 time iteration before we actually nailed the flavor.

So they'll send it to me, I'll send them feedback. They'll send it again, feedback, send it again. And it's so hard to get the flavor, especially with She-Legit gummies. Yeah, how did you do. And it's so hard to get the flavor, especially with Shilajit gummies. Yeah, how did you do that? That was so hard to make taste good because Shilajit tastes like the bottom of a toad. Like it is the worst.

It is tart. But finally we landed on something that kind of had like that barnyard funk flavor, not quite as resin rich as the Shilajit that was in the marketplace and it was a little sweet. So I'm like, this is actually really good. And after you put it in the fridge, like I love the ShilJit that was in the marketplace, and it was a little sweet. So I'm like, this is actually really good. And after you put it in the fridge, like I love the She-Li-Jit gummies in the fridge,

you take it out. So it's kind of like rewarding yourself with something too. And you're getting the 84 trace minerals, the humic and the fulvic acid. So you're literally scraping your body out of toxins. And you guys know this, all the fat in our body is basically where our toxin storage is. So if you want weight loss that's actually effective, SheLegit helps with that.

Are those chelating compounds? Is that how they get the- Exactly. Heavy metals, 84 trace minerals in it. It literally strips the toxins out of your body. So mold, dealing with mold, it's great for that. It's a great binder. So kids are taking them and they're getting

insane results as well. Yeah, this is a big issue. A lot of people don't realize this, like heavy metal toxicity, mold, you know, and then the fact that our gut health is poor kind of really reduces our ability to get rid of, because normally we have a detoxifying system in our body that's natural.

Yeah. But for whatever reason, environmental factors, and then gut health issues, you're seeing this more and more, especially with, this is my kids, so I'm a healthy household. We tested my two younger ones, and they had higher levels of heavy metals, and so we're having to use chelating compounds,

sauna, to try and get them to get, yeah, and what we're seeing, which we're seeing less of now, are kind of strange autoimmune issues. Nothing major, but it's like, why does my daughter have a little bit of eczema here? Why is my son having a little dark, circles of- Lots of skin issues.

Skin issues, yeah. I'm seeing that, digestion issues. A lot of kiddos aren't even using the bathroom every day, which is the seed of our lymphatic system, like you wanna be flushing it out of your body. So anything we can do to improve. Some people are like, you don't need to detox your liver does that.

But what is it? 60, 70% of people now have fatty liver disease. Like you just had somebody on your show talking about this. Yeah, yeah. Our ability to get rid of things is over, it's being overcome because of all of the things. So we're exposed to. So much.

Yeah, all these Xenoestrogens. Microplastics. And forever chemicals, microplastics. A credit card, what is it, a credit card a week in microplastics that people are eating now? Did you see what they do with the brain one? Yeah, I saw all the microplastics in the brain. In the brain, yeah.

Like what is that doing long term? Yeah, I don't know. Can't be good, that's for sure. Dementia, Alzheimer's, I mean you name it. By the way, kefir destroys microplastics in the body. Does it? There's been a little bit of research in regards to that. Fenugreek as well, that's one of the things you can take.

Fenugreek water gets rid of microplastics. I know psyllium husk was another one. If you use psyllium husk regularly, which thank God I was using that for a long time. Yeah, that was a big thing. Yeah, and that's been shown to get rid of this stuff as well. But I've had to become, you know, somebody who looks into this because of my little one.

Speaking of which, you have a kid, now you have a child, one and a half year old. Absolutely. Did you just go crazy into all this stuff even more? Cause you're already into it. I had to, I had to. Which is why we launched Easy Greens for Kids, and then Kids Protect.

Oh, that makes sense, because you had a kid. There wasn't anything organic that was high quality enough, natural food based, because we didn't want to give them any synthetic vitamins. Obviously, you're just peeing that stuff out. So we created Kids Protect and then Easy Greens as well. She loves it. She comes in the kitchen, and she's like, Easy Greens.

So maybe you just became more hyper aware of what's going on? I wouldn't call it even hyper aware. I'd say obsessed. I'm literally obsessed with protecting my daughter, as you guys are. You have kids. You want the best for them.

And big food, I mean, the marketing and the propaganda around everything that's in our environment today, we're not taught it. A lot of people have just been duped. They don't have the right information, which is why we've been working together for over a decade now, because you give the right information out.

And people need, yeah, it's been like 10 years. Isn't that wild? It's been longer though since you got you, and you, Doug, and who was with Drew? Was it with someone else from his team that was with him? It was 2000 and what, 13 you said? 2013, yeah. 2013. We went to an internet marketing thing, like convention, that was with him? I don't recall who it was. It was 2000 and what, 13 you said? 2013, yeah. 2013.

We went to an internet marketing thing, like convention, it was with, what were the names of the guys? Yeah, Mike Phil Same, Andy Jenkins. That's right. So like the internet marketing party crew. Yeah. Back in the day. Yeah, and they used you, you were like their case example

of how to reach people and you were doing this. Yeah, all the influence stuff back in the day. Yeah, dude. That was before we even knew. Yeah, all the influence stuff back in the day. Yeah, dude. That was before we even knew. Yeah, I was selling digital products online, making millions of dollars a year selling digital products like 12, 13 years ago. Oh, that's what you were doing first.

What digital products were you? I had a program called Juice With Drew. That's right. So I was teaching kind of like the Gerson method, like how to detox, seven day fast. People were getting crazy results. Thousands of testimonials coming in every week. I was getting 16 million views on my website organically.

When Facebook. 16 million per month. 16 million per month. So even a terrible marketer, which at the time I was, I was still absolutely annihilating it with like a 0.025% conversion rate. And they were like, let's bring this guy up here to talk about how he's doing this.

I mean, back then I didn't know. But we had to evolve and adapt over time. And now here we are. What a wild ride. Yeah, I was just going to say, what a wild experience for you to come all the way from that. That many visits organically like that. Imagine what you would do those kind of visits these days.

Oh my god. It would be game over. Yeah. And I always put myself in that, which is the biggest trap. I bet. Because I even looked back four or five years in that, which is the biggest trap. I bet. I even look back four or five years ago. You probably do the same thing. Because the market's a little bit harder,

and there's so many copycats. And now it's so easy to produce content. And it's actually pretty easy to create supplements, low quality supplements. Yeah. Yeah. Good caveat there. Yeah, but I look back and it's like, oh gosh,

knowing what we know now. What do you think has been the biggest shift? Like when you look at the, because you're such a great person to talk to, especially from the marketing side, like what is the biggest shift? Do you think that it's just, is it oversaturated? Is there that many people that can get started and get a supplement company running,

and so there's just so much competition for attention? I think it's that. And I think people are fed up working for other people. There's this whole at-home entrepreneurship that people just want their own nine-to-five you know the Gary V's of the world which is great so but it does make it harder because the barrier to entry is just so much easier now you could start up in a hundred hundred fifty grand and you could get a pretty good skew off the ground marketing and everything which back in

the day it was probably less than, less than that, you know? I mean, just for a company to survive a decade, Sal was actually just bringing this up about us the other day, like reminding us, cause I can be the, I can be the negative Nancy of the grumpy bear about what's going on with the business. And he's like, dude, the fact that we're relevant 10 years later, he goes, absolutely. He's like, remember how many podcasts we're going on with? We started like,

name one that's still doing it. So when you look back at your guys' over a decade run, trajectory. Yeah, what do you go back and go like, these are the things that we did really right? Like, what are you proud of that you guys did from day one that you've maintained that you think has a lot to do with why you guys are still relevant?

Always customer first. What do the customers need? Asking them, money back guarantee, regardless of they don't like my video, they don't like my hair, they get their money back. It's like, we don't have time to play around with that. And also getting results. So producing things that actually get results,

tracking the results. Highest quality sourcing would be another thing. So that'd be number three. Making sure it's organic, glyphosate free, third party testing on everything we do. And you were doing that early. Early. You that'd be number three. Making sure it's organic, glyphosate free, third party testing on everything we do. And you were doing that early. Early, yeah.

You had to do it early. And the dosing, so that would be four. So making sure there's a clinical dose of, say, saffron in the happy drops, or ashwagandha, or the SheLiGIT, 250 milligrams of the pure SheLiGIT. Making sure that everything we create has the efficacy around it. How much more of an investment is that for a company

to do that? Because I think the- Oh, so expensive. Yes, you have to elaborate on that. Because one of the things that I'm always trying to communicate to people, I don't care if we're talking about Organifi, any brand, whatever, but people, oh, this is so expensive compared

to this. And there's a reason why that is, because it's really expensive to get all that third party testing, to go through all that stuff, to make sure that you're getting that kind of quality. So talk a little bit about that process and why you guys don't shortcut that. Well, you're sourcing from the best farms.

You're making sure that it's organic, third party tested. You're paying at least 30% more for ingredients. 30% more. At least 30%. Well, Shilajit alone, they're now, and I'd say you guys started a huge Shilajit trend. I see them all over the place now. But they're using like lab-made Shilajit

or Shilajit that's not from the Himalayas as other sources. It's like you're wasting your time, but people have no idea. They have no idea. And everybody's getting duped because of that. So you look on Amazon and there's probably like 20 other Shilajit gummies that were just pop shops.

Some guy in a different country altogether making a lab grown shilajit. Does it really have the efficacy? Does it really have the 84 trace minerals that we have? Absolutely not. So pureavid, we usually partner up with the best sourcing. And then we apply that to the individual ingredients

which helps a lot. It is a lot more expensive. Plus you're testing every lot number as well. So a test can range anywhere from $2,000 to $5,000. And you have to do it every time. Because if one thing goes haywire, it's like you want to know what it is. Then you're testing every ingredient.

So the numbers add up pretty quickly. Now, is it like how often do you guys test something and go, oh, shit, we got to go back and change this or fix that, or we got to go somewhere else? Like, is it often? On every SKU, at least once or twice a year, where it's like, okay. But luckily we know.

Otherwise, customers would get something that's less than what we've created in the past, which we would never want in the first place. Now do you think, when you think of like, the people that, you know, there's lots of times where you hear, we remember one of the things that we had with you probably like six years ago. I remember there was a big thing with the glyphosates, right?

Was it glyphosate? Heavy metals, heavy metals, heavy metals, protein. Yeah. Do you think, do you think that a lot of this is like malicious or people know they're doing it? Or do you think a lot of times it's just purely an accident because they're trying to cut corners and save money? I don't even think they know. I think they're trying to, like you said, I think they're probably trying to cut corners. They're trying to just stay in business as it is. I mean in America we have to pay taxes and then we have, you know, attorneys that sometimes sue us for no apparent

reason at all because everybody's just trying to survive in this economy that we're in. So it's like you're swimming with sharks regardless. These people are just trying to get by and the customer gets duped in the end. A lot of people don't know this, but vegan protein powders, if they're organic, organic pesticides can cause heavy metal buildup in the plants, but they weren't testing for them. Yeah.

So that's why the top, at the time, some of the top vegan protein powders were so high in heavy metals, but they weren't testing them because they didn't even know to test for them. We had to change up our pea protein because we were sourcing our pea protein. I didn't even know it at the time,

but it was a little higher in heavy metals. So we had to sub that out. We had to pay literally what we would normally spend for a kilo of pea protein, maybe 10 bucks, something like that. And it had heavy metals in it. So we had to sub it out and it was three times more. Cause you're getting it in America.

Three times more in America. So now a protein that probably would cost X amount is three times more than that. Like imagine what that does to your supply chain, everything in your business. Right, right. You know, a lot of what you're- Do they normally measure protein,

powder, and kilos? Is that normal? Is that common? Yeah. You know, this reminds me, I have to bring this up to you. Out of your first day. That's hilarious.

I don't know if I've ever heard them say protein, powder, and kilos. By the way, I see bricks, you know what I'm saying? I got all white on too. We wanted, yeah, I know, you look like you're straight out of Miami right now too. We wanted to, we wanted to do a Create Team. Remember back in the days? And we wanted to sell it.

In brick. Paper bag, brick. Yes, paper bag. That's actually pretty brilliant. I feel like it would be. That's pretty brilliant. Don't you think that would, I think it would be just the purest,

the purest Create Team in the world. And we sell it by the kilo. I think it would crush. That's so right. Yeah. It's ideas like that now that separate you from everybody else. See, that's what I think too. I think that-

You have to be original. Otherwise, you're just noise. Yeah. I want to see someone do it. I love that. Yeah, yeah. You just totally brought that up for me. What you're talking about are all the stuff you're mentioning.

It's like, that's business. If you want long-term, sustainable business, you want to create a legacy. It is what it is. Business 101. But I think what happened with social media, just new media in general, is people, and this is business has always been able to, you could always cut shortcuts, create shortcuts, but I think people saw social media and said, oh this

is an opportunity to make a bunch of money real quick, so let's go for it, cut costs, and you know, who knows, we'll see what happens. But those companies don't last long. Not at all. No, companies don't last long. Not at all. No, they don't last long. So if you want to, and we talk to people like this all the time, like with our business, we teach trainers this, you want a sustainable business, you have to do it the right way.

Otherwise you'll be in and out in a couple of years. And I've seen businesses come and go like that. Yeah, there's lots of supplement companies, unfortunately. Gone. Are you pro, probably not, of course not, but would you be pro regulation of the supplement industry? They always make that argument because they'll look. We are.

You are? We are pro regulation. Wow. Wow. Because we're doing everything by the rules. Because you're already doing it. That's why you're like, make sure you make everybody else play by the rules.

Even on Amazon, Amazon rolled out this huge transparency program. And we're already doing like 80% of it. But now it's like 40% to 50% of Amazon subs are gone. Like they will be gone. What is it? What's this program? So you have to have an individual,

like the QR code on the back of every product that you sell that Amazon can actually track. So this is getting crazy, guys. What's the reason behind this? So Harmony is a female product. It's got the Chase Treeberry. It's got cacao with the Bliss molecules. Really good for PMS. That's what Justin likes a lot. It's got the chaste tree berry. It's got cacao with the bliss molecules. Really good for PMS.

That's what Justin likes a lot. It's one of my, yeah, exactly. For women, it's one of my favorite products. But we had a semi truck stolen. A million dollars retail worth of Harmony, stolen. No way. Two weeks later, it literally started popping up on Amazon. Wait, wait, hold on a second.

So you had all these resellers. Somebody hijacked a supplement? Somebody hijacked a million dollars worth of Harmony. What? So back to the kilo, like the bricks. Yes, dude. Dude, it's literally like cartel shit. Wow.

Like, it literally got hijacked. So then we had to hire a fricking law enforcement security guy to track down this. It was in a warehouse in LA, and they were just put it in their own packaging. You found it? Selling it, yeah. Like most of it. But they were already, the damage had been done. They were already selling it in their own packaging. You found it? Yeah, like most of it, but they were already,

it was the damage had been done. Like they were already selling it for weeks on end. Were they put, did they undercut you? Was it like, oh it's super? Absolutely. Oh my God. They didn't name it, say how did you even know it was yours? The skews.

The skews. No, no, so they were still using the same packaging? They were still using the same packaging. Oh that's just lazy. It's lazy, yeah, but they're making money. Yeah, but the brand is what sells it. Like they made their own brand. And they're bidding against us. Wow that's just lazy. Yeah, but they're making money. Yeah, but the brand is what sells it. They made their own brand.

And they're bidding against us. So they stole the Organifi using our advertising and undercutting us. And this happens all the time. I was just going to say, is this a thing? Where they'll hijack a truck with supplements and then go on Amazon and oh my god. Especially somebody who's already selling a ton of it.

And not only that, they'll make their own. So now there's Organifi knockoffs. I've had people like multiple times, they've stolen our whole entire website. And then they're selling their own Organifi product. This is why I always tell you, we do not want to be a Sullivan Company. You do not want to be in the Sullivan Company.

This guy always wants us to go that route. I'm always telling him, listen, Tarta Drew and Mike tells me too, you haven me mentioning this, how dirty Amazon, the Amazon game I hear is just dirty too. It's just like you get ranked and you have other companies calling other companies just to screw with it. They'll complain and they'll get taken down. Yeah, my cortisol is through the roof.

And we have this growth manager. That's why you need all that happy drop Sheila's Yeats. Yeah, exactly. That's truly why I created it. It's for you. It's an IV drip of saffron over here, just keeping me up. This is wild. But that makes perfect sense, because you could, like you said, a million dollars with a product, put it on.

The consumer has no idea. You're putting millions of dollars of advertising out there. So they're just getting brand recognition. It's our product. Or they'll find a deal day. They'll find Sheila Jit when we give 20%, 30 30 percent off and they'll buy a whole gaggle of it In individual people so you can't catch it even the best security interface AI you're using on your back end Isn't gonna flag a thousand purchases of people buying five units at a time or whatever

You got people even doing that cutting the margins by oh, yeah And then what do they do they wait for the sales over and they sell it a seller and then they just start steamrolling It dude, so it knocks our buy box completely off. This is crazy. It's the Wild Wild West. No desire. Which zero. The transparency program on Amazon and for, I love it.

I'm like, bring on the regulation. You know what? This is a stuff that I love you sharing this because I feel like every freaking trainer wants to run a supplement company. It's like, I'm gonna get there. company. It's like, it's like, I'm going to get there. We help trainers and coaches, and it's like, yeah, I'm going to get famous online, and then I'm

going to start my sub company. You have no idea. No idea. What a monster that is. And how thin the margins are. I mean, the size you have to be and the volume you have to do to make good money. And then on top of that, playing this game.

Like, that is crazy. That is crazy. It's crazy. It's not worth it. If you would have approached me eight years ago and said, Drew, what do you think about the supplement industry? I would have been like, hey, let's do it. I'm going to help you because there's so much opportunity. Now I would tell you to run for the hills.

Oh, wow. Just stay away. Oh, wow. So what happened to the guy or the team or who the hell that was stealing? Do you prosecute? Do they get busted? Or is get busted slap on the wrist? It's almost like you have to focus on your core business and to go after people. That's a whole nother. That's what I'm saying

Like you it's not even worth your time. We're gonna hire dog the bounty hunter to like go after I joke around I'm like, hey, let's send up a couple of our boys with baseball bats. What do you do? What do you do? Do you even know what in and you broke it. Yeah, exactly. What do you do? What do you do? I mean, do you even know what happened to those people? You don't do anything, dude, because it's a distraction. You have to focus on your business.

Right, you lose more money messing with it. And focusing on something else. Carve it off as a loss and just move on. So focus on the one thing, right, the book. It's like, what are you going to focus on? You're going to go after the low-hanging fruit of people that are stealing from you, or are you going to focus on building out

other customer segments and reaching new audiences and actually benefiting the business that way? Wow. On a regular week, just a normal week, how often are you dealing with something like this? Every week. Every week. Every week.

Yeah. That's a lot, dude. Every week. And I have a baby girl. So now you couple that. You guys know. I feel like I'm with my therapist right now. By the way, this is great.

Let it all out, man. Free therapy. Is this why you had gained all that weight before, by the way, when you were lost? Oh, of course. Hey, talk to me about that. You're eating cookies like crazy. No, this is good for our audience to hear because you're a health and fitness guy. I am, like you guys.

And you had a health crisis, essentially. How did that happen? Big time. Big time. No, for real. It's got a little fluffy. I became a dad bod, you know? And dad bod's a big thing right now. I'm a dad bod. I'm a dad bod. I'm a dad bod, essentially. Had that happen.

Big time. No, for real. It's got a little fluffy. I became a dad bod, you know? And dad bod's a big thing right now. Yeah, well, talk about how it creeped up on you. Because I'm sure it started probably from a good place. I didn't even see it.

Yeah. Because also guys like us are very, like, I look in the mirror and it's like, oh, there's a lot of muscle here. We're always in our ego enough to be like, ah, just let it go for a few more weeks. I'm bigger. And then I few more weeks. I'm bigger. And then I'm just bigger, I'm stronger. I'm benching like 400, just repping it out.

And then I look in the mirror and I'm like, OK, I look a little swole still. But then all of a sudden you look, and it's like, wait a minute. I have like double chins and everything going on. Testosterone's falling through the floor. Hair loss is starting to happen. I'm like, this stress, I have to nip stress in the butt.

So did it start with pregnancy when she got pregnant? Or you right away? Or when did it root? For sure. OK, so start there. I think, as you guys know, having kids, it's like as soon as you have offspring, it's like everything gets turned up and down.

Oh, yeah. The legacy gets down. For a dad? Drive mode that's insane. The drive mode goes through the roof, like Justin said. And it's like, I couldn't stop. So now I was the same health guy waking up at 4 or 5 AM just to get a couple hours of work in before a baby gets up,

losing sleep, stressed out about my business. Luckily, I have all the tools. Because without our tools, you guys know all the tools that I know, where would we be? So then months into this, six months later after having a baby, it's like, I need to do something about this. I can't be the health guy filming videos on my treadmill with a tire sack hanging on my belly.

You said you got into baking to feed your life. I didn't know what to do because we had help. I had a couple really gifted night nurses and midwives and we did the natural birth and all the other stuff. Oh, did you? Did you guys do it at home or did you do it in the center? We did it at home. Wow.

Talk about that experience. So we did, so I have two younger ones and my youngest we did in the birthing center with a midwife and my four year old we did in the hospital and the experience is so different. It's so different. So different. Talk about that a little bit.

Was it scary for you going into it, or were you like, no, this is what we're gonna do for sure? My wife still hasn't shared this, so I won't share all the details, because that's kind of her story to share, as women. We started at home, and then she went through something called leg labor, which one in 4,000 women have. Oh, wow.

Where your legs start to cramp up, but she got to nine and a half centimeters, dilated from a little pool that we set up in the living room. And it was the most beautiful experience I've ever had in my life. Like, the birth, it's a portal. You guys know this. Oh, it's crazy. And the minute that baby came out and I held her, it's like everything in my life was put into perspective. Yeah.

Tears. And you guys, I don't know your backstory enough, but I was tortured as a kid. So zero to five, I had parents that were completely checked out. Abusive, sexually abused, like everything you could. Horrific. So to be confronted with that unconditional love in a little baby girl after she was born,

it just put everything into perspective. And every day moving forward, it's like, it's so hard because I'm the dad that I never had. You guys are the men that you probably never had in your life, maybe had good dads, I don't know. But there's so much to that. Hearing her cry, I've never talked about this, this is the first time I've ever said this,

but even hearing her cry the first time, it just shut me down inside. Because I remember being alone in a crib for what felt like two weeks on end. They say cry it out, but my parents were on drugs, like they were on meth and probably everything you could imagine back then. And having this little girl has changed me. Everything about me has been shifted. And it's hard to receive that kind of love. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

When you feel unworthy, when you have all the limited programming of your past. What has been the biggest challenge with that, right? I mean, I think about that all the time, too. I had a difficult upbringing. And so for me, I want to be opposite of everything. Absolutely. And so do you overcompensate?

Are there things that you have to have these check-ins with yourself of like, I need to be more like this? Or like, I mean, how has that process been of knowing that you had kind of a fucked up upbringing? Yeah. And then you obviously want the complete opposite. And that you also don't want to overcompensate and cause other issues So are you there's definitely the titration of both right where it's like I will overcompensate a lot

Because we didn't have money growing up either. So it's like anything this girl wants. It's like daddy Can I have this and it's like done? Yeah, cuz even one squeal of this little girl like happy about the smallest little toy. It's like you want to make that happen. Yeah But for me, you know, it's in the crying, it's in when she's not happy. It's like these visceral fascia constrictions, where it's like, I'm safe. I'm a grown ass man in this body. I can protect myself.

I'm safe. I'm whole. All the things that we know. But because trauma stores itself in our fascia, that's another cortisol-inducing event. So to go back to what you said, it's like, when the baby came, was it all the stress and everything else?

Absolutely, dude. There were nights when I would go to bed and it's like, did I handle that right? Was I a good man in that moment? Did I give her love? Or am I resorting to the past of what I learned innately? Well, there's a compounding factor here too, because you have women naturally go through that because as a mother, they're hyperdrive. Linked up.

Linked up, cries do things to moms, and they're very, they're literally physically connected to the baby through pregnancy. And as the father and the husband, your job is to be the rock, but you're going through these similar kind of emotions. How was that for both you guys? My wife is probably, not probably, she's a saint. And she's so emotionally intelligent, where she'll see it and she recognizes it

and she talks me through it. She holds space for it. That's huge. Yeah. When I'm locked it. That's huge. Yeah. When I'm locked up, she's like, hey, take a minute. And there's not a lot that really locks me up, because I've done a lot of work. But she gets it.

And my wife totally understands me in those moments, guides me through it so that I can come back better. But if I was a single dad without the support of a woman that's so in tune, it would be really hard, dude. Did you go through this experience, because I did to a large extent, where you kind of feel, you don't realize this,

but you were invincible before. Absolutely. Now you're not. Like you now, you are extremely vulnerable now. Vulnerable. Yeah. What was that like? For me, it was a shock. Yeah, you feel naked. You feel so exposed.

Where it's like even emotions, especially with a girl. It's different. I think it is a little different having a girl as opposed to a boy. And I love that I had a girl first because my heart has opened up so much. I mean, outside of listening to Moana a thousand times and like the Disney soundtracks on my phone, like you look at my playlist and it's like,

what's this guy listening to? Cause she just loves it. So that's what's gonna happen. That's what's gonna play. She's a little singer, but there's every moment, every day when I'm just, I get rid of my phone and I get super present with her on the beach or wherever we are.

And I just stare at this little girl and her big blue eyes. And it's like, there's so much wonder and so much awe in her. It's literally rewriting my childhood. I think they say every year that you're alive and you have a kid at that, you're reteaching yourself. So I'm holding the little boy that never had love. I'm speaking to the little kid at age two that didn't have a dad or a mom even around.

And we're working through all that. And it's one of life's greatest teachers. I've read a lot about this. My wife had some really difficult experiences with our son, with our four-year-old. And what they'll say, I guess what psychologists will say is that whatever your trauma you had as a kid, you do a really good job, especially if you're growth-minded and you move forward, you do a really good job with kind of adapting.

But nothing will bring it back out like having your own kid, which happened with my wife. but what was communicated to her and what's really happened is you can turn post-traumatic stress into post-traumatic growth But that's hard. Yeah, so you got to go through all that Is that what you're finding like I'm going through all of this stuff that I thought I could move past for sure It was all stuff. I had I I thought I had it neatly organized in my own unconscious mind I mean I had a Peter organized in my own unconscious mind. I mean, I had a Peter Levine trained coach, 15 years doing TRE, trauma release exercises, shaking out on my fascia, EMDR.

I mean, you name it, I've done it. But as soon as that little girl was just plopped on my chest and cried for the first time, it was like all of that, it just starts to fill the room again. It's like you may have thought you got rid of it for a second, but here's your greatest teacher. And I find myself also as a busy entrepreneur in a tough climate, wanting to excel,

wanting to have success. And in those moments, it's like, why am I checking out so much? I'm on my phone scheduling meetings meetings and doing like stuff that's, I could probably be a lot more effective if I just left the room. But to truly get present with her and just be in the uncomfortable like, hey, what are you dealing with here? Like looking at it from a higher perspective is where the healing takes place. It's like turning those moments with her into those sacred opportunities to heal something that wasn't healed before. So I love that you said the post-traumatic growth.

That's exactly what's happening. How long have you and your wife been together? How long have you guys known each other? Four years. Four years? Yep. How much did that shift your guys' relationship and change bringing a baby into the picture? Oh my gosh.

Night and day. Yeah, when people share the birthing process, I feel like I had such a different experience. Every guy I talk to talks about that moment when that kid comes out of just like this overwhelming looking at him, just like you described. Mine was so much more with my wife. Watching her go through that, it bonded us on another level. I had still, I mean, holding my son and putting him on my chest, like a lot of great feelings. But the thing that really rocked my world was my capacity for her and how much that was different. I thought that was unique.

So did you have, did you feel like you guys really shifted and changed? And what was that like with her? I feel that seeing her level up as a woman, even just bringing a baby in. You know, and this is a Viking baby. She had a huge head like me. And my wife is like, I have a small wife. She's like 110 pounds soaking wet. And to see the work that it took to bring this life

into this existence and how hard it was for her. Because I mean, the birth for a woman is like, changes them entirely. Of course. And then to see her heal all of her mom wounds and dad wounds, because she still had all this stuff too, it has brought me so close to her, like you said, and recognizing how powerful she is

and how much she's a force, you know? And it's, yeah, I don't think there's anything like it. You said something about, you had briefly said how you'd be on your phone scheduling meetings, essentially dissociating because you're- Just checking out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a driver in a man that tends to happen

when you have a baby, which is like, gotta make more money, gotta be more successful, gotta be more focused, also wanna be with the kid. It's very easy for a guy, a dad, I did this with my first two, and I wish I could go back in time and change it. I was all in on work, so much so

that I missed a lot of their childhood. Did you find yourself having to struggle, like, okay? I chose my baby girl. And I think in many ways it impacted the business. I think it's hard to have both. You can't have all in on everything. No, it's impossible. There's life coaches out there that you get to have it all.

But it's like you choose. So I would rather have presents with my girl in the morning, an hour, hour and a half. And that's my most productive time. I'm a lion chronotype. I wake up at 4 AM, right? And I'm ready to go for the day. My most productive time is probably 4 to,

let's say, 11 o'clock. After lunch, I'm basically dead to the world, because I've just been so on it for so long. But choosing my girl in those moments has been the best thing for me. And it's definitely impacted the business. Have you created practices? Like I've had to teach myself like certain strategies.

I think Jordan Peterson shared this on. Joe Rogan said that it's been powerful for me. Every time before I get home, I stop the car in the driveway for literally an extra two minutes And like let go whatever is at work and then like, you know, and in my head i'm visualizing, you know Putting putting on my dad clothes. I actually as soon as I come in kiss my wife and my son I go upstairs and I put sweats on just to put you're smart. Yeah, it is Just to i've created that as a ritual of this is part of me

Even though I don't have like, I wear comfortable clothes to work, but literally the changing of the clothes is comfy dad sweats and now I'm full dad mode. Like it helps me. Have you found things like that? I think that's so good for everybody listening to this. You need that. I'm still working on that. Cause if I get up at 4am and I'm on it for like two, three hours before the baby gets up, I'll try to sit for five minutes and just meditate and do some breath work. But there's still an edge, there's still like this testosterone in me

that's like I'm hunting, I'm in the middle of hunting. And then I'll go into my wife who just woke up and she's more of like the bear chronotype. So quiet, slow. Oh man, that's like my wife and I. And that's hard for me to turn off. Yeah. Are you loud, are you like wake up, lights on, let's go? I'm loud dude, I'm like my wife and I. And that's hard for me to turn off. Yeah. Are you loud?

Are you like wake up lights on, let's go? I'm loud, dude. I'm ready to go. It's gotta be. It's Italian thing. It's Sal, too. So even, you know, you might do a leg day in the morning. And so then your testosterone's up, what, 20%, 30% more?

So you're even louder. Like, I come in sometimes playing music, like getting the dance party started. You know what I'm saying? And I just get shut down. Yeah. She's like, hey, this isn't going to work. You need to calm down right now.

And she's this little fiery, fiery woman. And I'm like, hey, I respect it, but it's so hard. So I admire what you're doing. I need to find more methods like that. The changing of clothes is work. Because there's times when I'm on like a heated conversation on the car phone driving home so I'm in it. I'm in a full hut mode. Yeah, you know yes just in the middle of a kill and I'm like I'm pulling up my driveway and like okay I've got

to switch this. Yep. And so it's like I got to stop in the driveway for a minute or two gather myself decompress then go in straight to the wife, kiss her, pick my son up, do some of them, and then go run upstairs. And I freaking put my sweats on, t-shirt, and by the time I do that, and it's not perfect, right? Granted, it's still coming down, but it really helps that process. It was been a huge hack for me. I love that.

Yeah, a huge hack. And when my wife tells me stuff now, like you need to bring it down a notch, or even gives me feedback on how I'm being. It's like, I used to, my ego used to flare up and it's like, woman, like, I've been working three hours already. I'm providing, I pay for everything. Like we have all this support. Yeah.

Whatever the ego likes to make up. Yep. And I would almost fight with her about it. Yep. But now it's like, you know what? Whatever my oracle says, my wife, I'm going to listen to it. Yeah. I'm going to be like, you know what? You're right. Like, my wife, I'm gonna listen to it. I'm gonna be like, you know what, you're right.

Let me bring it down a notch. Or whatever the situation is. Because nine times out of 10, she's like spot on, dude. She just sees right through my soul. Like just looks, then there's no escaping it. Our women, we need women like that, you know? You have it. Yeah, cause would we grow up without that?

It's the balance. I don't know. No. Yeah. What is it about little girls balance? I don't know. No, no. Yeah, what is it about little girls too? Is she a daddy's girl, your little girl? Absolutely. Yeah, so what is it about little girls that do that to us?

Because I have boys and girls. I love all my kids, love them. But my daughter's gonna melt me like nothing. Is it because we know, we identify with the boys, we know, my wife says, because for her it's the boys, right? My son goes to her and she's like, and she's like, because I know what she's playing. I know what the little girls do. I know what my wife says, cause for her it's the boys, right? My son goes to her and she's like, and she's like, cause I know what she's playing. I know what the little girl's doing.

I know what my daughter's doing and it works on you, but it doesn't work on me. I mean, it's gotta be something like that. I think it's biologically too. Like there's something in a man we wanna provide, we wanna protect. She senses that. She's like, here's my guardian.

Here's the guy that's gonna, what do they say? Like your dad is like your first love as a little girl? So we're modeling everything that we want her to have in the future. The worst, I heard this once and this hit me, man, the worst man that a girl will put up with is the worst that she saw in her father.

So if you yell, if you're not, if you're inconsistent, if you lie, whatever, she'll put up with that and the guy that she's with. Interesting. Oh yeah, and that hit me, man. Oh yeah, dude. Yeah. I love that, I asked a question on my Instagram

the other day and it was like, hey, 20 years from now, you have a two year old kid or whatever, would you allow your daughter to marry you? Yeah. Would you allow your son to marry a woman like you? Yeah. Switch the role, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I really thought through that. What was your answer? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Good, good, that's great. So we're doing good work. That's great, man. And you said you want 10?

Early off there, I said how many you want. I would love 10 kiddos. What's realistic though, for reals? Probably four. A good four. Yeah, I need a bus. Good for you. A lot of people don't want to have a lot of kids anymore. Oh, I love kids, man. I love being a dad. It's like my favorite thing. The crazy part is, I don't know about you, I was almost not.

We used to argue. Adam was making- Yeah, when we started this podcast- He was the late bloomer. You're such a good dad. People that have listened from the beginning have heard me say that. Like, oh yeah, because Katrina and I have been together for a long time. We've been together for 14 plus years. There was a point in our relationship where we had agreed that we might not have kids. A lot of that had my own wounding

as a kid of not having and wanting to provide. And so I had this weird number in my head that I needed to be at before I, and I didn't want to bring a child in the world until I was there. Yeah. And what's funny is that I made peace with that before I had reached that. And the irony of it was the nine months when he was in her tummy was when we really kind of hit that, which was kind of crazy that I let go of it, which is probably what I needed to do. And then everything unlocked and it ended up working out. And it ended up like it was at that place that I wanted to be.

And now I look back and I go, shit, I wish I could have five. After having one like that, it makes me want to have a bunch more. But it's wild for me to think that at that time in my life when I said that, I truly didn't feel like I needed to or it was that important. I was like, yeah, sure, if I have a kid, I have a kid, it's not a big deal. I look back now and it's like, oh man,

I would have been really missing out. Yeah, I talk to people every day that don't have kids. And they're like, I don't want kids. And I'm like, in my head, and I don't tell them this, unless they ask, but in my head, I'm like, you're going to miss out on so much. I had no idea how much it would evolve me, the man that I would have to become. Yeah. I didn't realize how selfish I was. I knew I was selfish.

Agreed, man. I knew I was a selfish person. I would admit it to you. You ask me, oh yeah, I'm a selfish guy. And a lot of times when guys like us have childhoods like that. You have to be. And you have to be, and then you figure it out, and you're like, hey, now's my time. I didn't get it zero to 10. Like, now's my time, and I'm gonna live it up,

I'm gonna enjoy it. So I was very openly selfish and knew that. But to what extent I didn't realize until he came around. Then when he came around, I realized, oh shit, like, not only was I selfish, but I never truly loved anything close to how much I love myself And for the first time I love something more than myself. Oh, dude. I mean if you asked me I'd say oh, I love my mom I love my sister. I love my brother. I love my wife. I love all these things

I'd say it but I never felt like I actually love you more than me Yeah, like I loved although I love all those people of a ton. I would take a bullet for them, I'd say. But this thing I actually love more than myself. That was wild. And that plays into the vulnerability. Cool. Oh, yeah. I love it so much.

I would never let anything happen to this. It's scary. It's scary is what it is. It's scary, but also, I don't know, for me, it really, because I probably would have some, I wish I remember what I would say when someone asked me about purpose In my 20s what I'd probably say something

To the extent rolls off the tongue. Yeah. Yeah Something about legacy and leaving something behind and yeah helping others or some shit, you know, whatever Yeah, so having a son was just like oh no, it's very clear now. Like that's, yeah, this is it right here. Like that's, this is me living on, you know, 60, 70 years from now. So yeah, that was like game changer. I remember Jordan Peterson said like, why should you have kids?

Like, what else are you gonna do? And I remember thinking like, that's true. What else are you gonna do? You're gonna drink my ties on the beach all day? I mean, I feel like for guys that have, I mean, I, you know, I think I had a pretty cool life. Like I, like I was, yeah, I was like, yeah, but extend that out. No, I mean, I mean, listen, I'm, I totally was blown away. I, but, uh, you know,

that was probably why it seems. And I know I'm, I talked to others that are considering not having kids and I'm like, I get it. I totally get it. You know, you got a rad life. You got a lot of cool stuff going on and you think if anything, you think the kid's going to cram into that or collecting stuff. Yeah. And all the cars, all the, all the cool shit I was, I really, really enjoyed my life and couldn't imagine a kid possibly making. I thought it would take, yeah,

I thought it would take away from some of those awesome things and it didn't. It just made all the better. I'm with you on that. Yeah, yeah. When you look at your daughter, do you think of a company you've built and what you do, and you're like, this will be something that she can get into when she gets older? Or do you think legacy in that way? I'm pretty detached from that.

But if she wanted to, let's say she has the world's littlest green thumb. Because every time we go outside, even when say, she has the world's littlest green thumb. Because every time we go outside, even when she came out of the womb, guys, it was weird. She would walk up to trees, and she would just want to touch the tree. No way. And she would giggle and smile at the tree. Birds would come up to her. Every time we'd walk down to the ocean, she was like, I got to go to the ocean.

Dolphins would swim up. Wow. I'm getting chills saying it. Like, this kid. Super in tune. Super in tune, super connected, telepathic. Like, the kids that are coming are insane. You guys know this.

So she's definitely on her own path, like whatever she wants to create. I think maybe she'll get into it at some point, like see dad on videos talking about superfoods, a crazy guy. You know, but I'm not attached at all. She's definitely a little artist. point like see dad on you know videos talking about superfoods a crazy guy you know I'm not attached at all she's definitely a little artist. How do you do you know how do you look at things like technology I mean she's so she's still young but you know well she's a year and a half right? Yeah year and a

half. Now throw their kids on iPads and stuff. We limit it. Okay. So once a week on the weekend maybe we'll watch a movie together. I try to keep the phone out of her hand just because I've seen what it does to kids. It's like, it just grabs them so much. It's like this visceral experience and then they throw tantrums afterwards because of all the blue light. And now you look at all the blue light research

and everything that it does neurochemically to children, it's not good. So we're trying very hard to keep her entertained through minimal stimulated devices. You know what I'm saying? Toys that don't have a lot of color. We're going about a very natural, holistic way. But I get it.

If you're a single mom and you're a single dad and you have to work, it's like, what do you do? It's so hard. I feel really, it's tough. I have a best friend and they both work crazy hours and they're raising two. And I know that like, you know, a lot of times he just, he uses his defense, you know, it's just like, I'm handling this one, so give this one that. I mean, I get it.

But then I see that the challenge that they have, you know, it's really, really challenging. I was having this conversation with a friend of mine because we were talking about diet. He was asking me questions, and I was talking about processed foods and how they're engineered to make you overeat, and et cetera, et cetera. And then we got to tech, and I said, you know what's crazy?

So much money was invested to make processed foods so palatable. Lots of science went into it, so much so that it has drug-like effects. Tech engineers itself on the fly. So it not only is an engineer, but it engineers itself to you individually. It would be like eating processed food.

And it gets better. And the processed food can judge by your salivation and by your own, you know, receptor rate. Well, you're the product. Yeah, and right, and so tech, you're talking about engineering to capture you and to create drug-like effects and to make you addicted or whatever it's there's nothing like it we've never experienced anything like it no so it's smart to avoid it. Well I mean even the average screen time that I have

you know sometimes I look at mine and it's like six and a half seven hours I'm like what's going on yeah on my phone seven hours a day yeah so even when my little girl sees me on my phone now I'm like very conscious of explaining, hey, I have a little bit of work to do and then I'll be present with you again. Has it gotten harder to capture people's attention to talk to them about things like health and all that stuff?

Absolutely. Okay, because they're getting hit with so much other stuff. The window's shrinking too. Monday through Friday I like to focus on health because that's when our willpower's the highest. You guys have looked at that stuff. Weekends, people just want to be entertained people want to check out because the week was so incredibly

intense so you change your ads you guys I just say do you change marketing on those we don't change ads not yet but that's definitely something that's an interesting thought yeah we what we're doing more entertaining stuff like a lot of our ads I'll wear like a costume and just crazy you know those seem to work different on different days. It's a whole mathematical algorithm in and of itself. That's an interesting thought. How has the market shifted?

The consumer. Obviously, the attention span is so small now. So you just have to capture attention quick. Yeah. It's so small now. You guys are blessed because you have this hour long podcast or longer, you know. People are focused. They listen to the whole entire thing.

I mean, I've listened to dozens of your podcasts in my car. But if you get somebody on their device and they're just in a scroll hole or doom scrolling first thing when they wake up in the morning, the likelihood of capturing them, it's like you got to have some bold methods to do that. Wow. Is the consumer more educated now when it comes to health products and supplements? Absolutely. OK.

Because everything's so easy to get. I mean, Harvard put all their whole entire curriculum online. Like, you could literally go to the best university. Everything's free now. Chat GPT will act like a therapist. It'll act like a contractor. It'll literally interior designer. Yeah.

I literally took a photo of my outfits. I'm like, hey, what's going to be best on the Mindpump podcast? No, you didn't. You just did that. They said, wear this great outfit. No, you didn't. my outfits. I'm like, Hey, what's going to be best on the mind pump? Where your best Miami vice fit. Talk about kilos of protein powder. This is chat. TBT advice right here. If you're not using, yeah, if you're not using it though, like you're just going to get left in the dust. Now, okay, going back to Shilaji

and how it affects testosterone, it's really interesting because the studies on it affecting testosterone are pretty remarkable. This is a big deal now for men. This has been a big deal, by the way, for decades. People don't know this. We've been tracking testosterone for decades. It's been going down since the 80s?

1950s. Oh, 50s, maybe, yeah, okay. So this is a big deal. tracking testosterone for decades. It's been going down since the 80s? 1950s? Oh, 50s, yeah, okay. So this is a big deal. Now we're getting to kind of like this area where it's like, okay, if we keep going lower with fertility, we're gonna be really screwed. So like, was that like a main focus?

Was that one of the main motivators? Absolutely. Because we look at the big theme. Fertility rates are declining. What can we do to increase fertility? What can we do to increase testosterone, have people feel better? We've always, as a society, we've always been into hormones. You look at birth control, what does a birth control hormone do? And for men, men are just so deficient. Our granddad's had what? Three times the amount of testosterone

as the average boy has now. Yeah, it's wild. I think it was like a 65-year-old man in 1985 had the testosterone, had better testosterone than the average 19-year-old or something like that today. Do you know, you both are into that stuff, right? So it'd be interesting to see, like, what if we, I met this guy, I was just, where was I just at? I was down in San Diego and I met this family that was, let's see, Tennessee or somewhere.

I mean, he lived out in the middle of nowhere. No, it was Montana, excuse me. It was Montana ranch. 1400 level testosterone. Well, and so this is where I'm going with this. It's like, and he was, we were talking and he was just talking about how he's raised, his boys were young, they were both there with him

and they already knew how to hunt and fish and lived on the farm. Yep. So I wonder if we, if we actually try to take families who are generational farmers or something that still live very traditional lives and then compare to like- That'd be great data.

Right, and compare it. Is it more something that's happening to all of us as a species or is it because of how we're evolving the things we're evolving and doing every single day? Culturally, yeah. Culturally, that's playing more of a factor than it is as a species. The data points all across the board.

However, they're probably higher and more active, healthier populations, but generally speaking, it's going down. Generally speaking, and it's, a lot of speculation, probably environmental toxins that you can't completely get away from. Well, that's why, so you think environmental, you think daily activities, you know, they're

sitting down watching TV, video games, Netflix, versus hunting, fishing, carrying bales of hay. Like, so if you took say a thousand kids, you know, that were raised out in the middle of Montana for the last ten years, versus the middle of San Francisco, and then what will we see? Do you think we would see the same thing? Just going to lump them in and average it, right? Yeah, because that's what we're doing is we're lumping them all together and we're averaging.

And really when you look at the average, I mean, I forgot I saw the statistics on this like literally 80% of us live on the coast and then the rest fill up all the sparse. The data, the best data we have suggests that it's an environmental toxin probably related to the explosion of petroleum-based plastics and products, which in the 50s started to become a bigger thing and just grew. It just grew decade over decade. Oh gosh, and then you look at all the information around all the juice that people have been given

over the past four years. What do you mean? Like the vaccines. Oh. And fertility rates on the demise of that. Yeah. And also the common denominator being people in Montana, or even San Diego, or wherever they are on a farm, like the bio-circadian rhythm of the sun being outside.

Sun is information, right? Supplements are just supplements. That's what they are. If you're not getting information to literally repackage your DNA, create stem cells, if you're not out in the sun every single day for 15 to 20 minutes, your body's a battery, your solar powered being, your antenna. Can I tell you that I think that's actually one of the most, since we're talking about parenting and kids and stuff like that, one of the most profound things that I have seen in my son who's going to be six now is when I get him outside early and he plays what a difference A night and I mean his behavior his sleep everything his mood. I mean everything everything everything I can tell Yes

Electromagnetic getting rid of the negative ions or whatever and then the sun building the solar calus Let him run around and play in the dirt and the sand barefoot and mess around out there for a Couple hours and holy shit Different child one of the biggest psyops I think we had the last few decades was getting everybody afraid of the Sun But you combine that with a crappy diet and your skin is more sensitive Yeah to the Sun you are more likely to get sunburn from the Sun skin cancer Yeah, but it's a huge Psyop

Like everybody's scared. I'm so scared of the Sun cover up put on tons of sunscreen. Oh, what's the sunscreen made of? hormone-disrupting Thing yeah titanium dioxide. Yeah, like a lot of these sprays. Yeah, not a good trade crazy It's just where where did common sense go? That's why I feel I feel like words cuz it's in it Is it because we're all aware and we're paying attention because I feel like it's very obvious to me It was it's not like oh, it's kind of or there's a correlation. I've got there. No, it's very like I've tested days Where I said, let's lay around watch TV today and do nothing and hang out and he is a different kid tantrums

Yes night or he's upset or he's like 100% and do nothing and hang out. And he is a different kid. Tantrums. Yes. That night, or he's upset, or he's like moving. 100%. And if he has that day where he's out, he plays, and he's playing out there for a couple hours, getting the sun,

it is a night and day difference. Nature's the healer. Nature's the greatest healer. We live on a Federal Reserve. The farm is. So all around us, thousands of acres of trees, oak trees, that have been there since the beginning of time. And she goes out there and she just opens her eyes up and listens to the birds.

And you could literally see it impacting her field in real time. She could be cranky before that. We haven't had to use any pills for teeth pain, for any of the teething that's going on. I mean, she's so dialed in, but it's because she's out in the sun every day. She's playing, her hands are in the dirt.

She's picking up microbes everywhere. Her microbiome's probably loving it. She's in the greenhouse picking veggies, putting things in the soil. Like she's just a different kid. And even parents come up, they're like, what are you doing to her that's different? Because she's so calm, she's so peaceful, she's so happy.

People are always like, that's the happiest kid I've ever seen. She walks into a room and smiles at everybody and just, dude, even when she came out of the womb, she like would make eye contact with you. And you know how kids like just kind of float around a little bit when they come out like, where am I? I'm planet earth now. She's so like just on it. You know, one thing that impressed me about Organifi and continues to is you guys have this great balance between like what's natural and then what's

efficacious when you're looking at extracts or with science like how's that balance how does it maintain that balance because supplement companies I think will go too far in one direction or the other where it's like all that like there is no standardization and it's that you know and then you don't know what you're getting and then there's the no no we're gonna extract the chemicals and that's all we're gonna sell you, you know, type of deal. What's that like between you and your team in that discussion?

That's a Shani question. She dials in on all that. You would love to have a conversation with her. Yeah. Yeah. Usually it's whatever's gonna benefit the customer. And whatever the data says, you know, is what we put into it the most.

What's your typical customer, like what is your customer avatar? What do they look like? I would say 70% women, 30% men. Ooh, is that one skewed? Yeah, it's skewed. Like women, organics, high quality yoga moms, moms that want the best for their children. They're the spender in the house as well. They make the decisions of wellbeing in the house. I mean,

I go to farmers markets and I'm not famous by any means, maybe like at a different school that I went to growing up, that's kind of what it feels like. But I'll go to a farmers market, or I'll walk into like a whole, like an Air Wan or whatever. That's where you're known. They come out of nowhere. You know what I'm saying?

Like I'm kind of famous there. It's hilarious. But it's these powerful moms that get it. And as soon as I make eye contact with a mom, and she's like, wait, I watch your videos. I buy all the Organifi for my kids. I already know. She is so studied.

She's educated. She's giving the best to her children. She has deep, meaningful, present conversations with the people in her life. She's just a rad human. So I actually love meeting people out in the streets. It's one of my favorite things to do. That's got to be kind of cool knowing

that because you've built the brand around a lot of that stuff that you've attracted that customer. You guys too. I mean, you want to hang out with the people that listen to you. That's how I think you guys feel that way. I know we do. That's definitely. Yeah, and I feel that way. Yeah, I love that. That's one of our favorite parts. In fact, that's actually one of the exercises that we do to keep us grounded is like, you know, sometimes we get in this

cave and we talk on this podcast out in the ether. And then every once in a while we get to meet with all the people that listen and it always reminds us, ah, this is why we do this. Like, this is cool. We're getting to meet all these people that are like us. I love thinking that and I love looking at testimonials and just reading the name, even the name of somebody and like the experience that they had with their kids or the experience that they had healing or losing weight or whatever it is and Just feeling into that. Yeah, and how much that changes their whole entire household because they're a better person. They feel better They have more energy. They're more present I think that's what we're after here when you when you look at your the full skews, right?

They'll pull product line has it over this entire time been, Green Juice was the flagship, right, and I'm sure you do a lot of protein. Is it consistent or have you had like, this product has way overtaken this one? Yeah, it's had to evolve. So with the onslaught of AG1, Right. You know, you got a company that's just a Goliath now

after a hundred million dollars in funding. Like they can buy up any single podcast there is if they want. I see that. They try to buy us out. Huberman. I mean, you name it. How loyal we are to CTO. I know.

And that's what I love about you. They try to throw dollars at us all the time. Loyalty. They do. They are what we are. And then it's like, what is it? It's like 50 ingredients, tiny specs, no efficacy at all. But the marketing is brilliant.

Oh, yeah. They've crushed that. Yeah, and they have a great team. People think it's one of the best because of the marketing. Isn't that wild how that is? Yeah. You know, it's like how- That Oh, yeah. It crushed that. Yeah, and they have a great team. People think it's one of the best because of the marketing. Isn't that wild how that is? Yeah. That, you know, it's like how-

That's the game. It is. That's the unfortunate part. It is. And you can't, you know, hate the player, hate the game kind of a thing. For sure. They're great.

But at the end of the day, it's like, when you have that type of capital, you could have it losing. You could be losing your ass on something. It doesn't matter because it's not really hurting your bank account. Yeah. Long term, they've tracked their LTV with the subscriptions.

So for us, to answer your question directly, it's had to evolve, it's had to change. So we look for niche marketplaces that people actually need support before the market gets there. To me, that's the answer to the question he was asking earlier about, Sheila Jeed and Happy Drops.

It always seems like you've done this incredible job of something that's been around forever, so it always seems like you've done this incredible job of something that's been around forever. So it's not like you're inventing something. We're a small company. Yeah. And bootstrapped. We don't have deep pockets like that.

So for us, the customer relationship is the most important. The relationship that I have with you guys, because you're customer interfacing, you're talking to people every single day, working your booty off. So that's what we look for. And it's worked well.

You know Adam uses you guys as an example when we talk to other companies that want to work with us. Because you guys do such a good job with our customers, with the people we send. You do such a good job with them and then they stick around. And so when he talks to companies, it's one of the things he wants to find out

because like is this gonna be a good fit? And he, I'll always hear him, oh Organifi does this. Well you guys do something that's unique to a supplement company too that I there's not many that I am aware of that do this which is you and you've been doing this for a very long time and that was you guys and I don't know what you call them they're like your customer service your coaches or whatever that's unique to you there's not a lot of supplement companies that do that most people yeah coach people yeah you actually have people get on the phone that will coach people how to take the

supplements or is this right for me or maybe you should do this also. And so, and that is like, we've always been good at being able to point people in a direction of like, oh, this is a great product. This is a good company. But then if you, and that's why I use you as an example, is like, if you guys on the backend support those people and you take good care of them, we're going to have a great business relationship. You're going to be very successful, we'll be very successful. But if you think that we're going to be able to close all these people on your product and your stuff and we don't spend time doing that, we're a podcast and we're helping people

finish it and we're going to mention the brand and we're going to talk about how great they are but we're not going to gear our whole podcast around selling your product. You guys got to do some shit on your back end, and not a lot of companies do that. No, you got to care. And I think that's longevity. That's what we were talking about earlier. It's like, if we understand the avatar,

we understand the customer that's on the phone, their bio-individuality, they have different needs than you have. Everybody's different. So what can we do to make it special? What can we do to show them that it's not about just selling them one supplement? It's about creating a relationship with them long term and building a friendship.

Because you guys have great retention. Great retention. People come in the industry. Yeah. Okay. So talk about that. So how do you produce that? Is it just average retention in the supplement market is probably 60 days. Whereas with SheLegit as an example, I mean, the average is probably four to five months. Wow. Which is a lot longer than most average is probably four to five months. Wow. Which is a lot longer than most companies.

Double to triple. Yeah. Wow. And we're constantly working on how do we get that to be even longer. I mean, obviously, you have the outliers that I've had people buying green juice for the past decade. So there's a cohort of people that have been buying green juice

for 10 years. And then people that want a discount on the front end, so they buy it, and then they fall off for the first 30 days or whatever, but the math works out. And that's the company we wanna build, for legacy as opposed to just a quick cash infusion. That's awesome.

What do you do for yourself personally? Obviously you eat healthy, you use good supplements. What do you do for fitness? Gosh, I used to work out twice a day. Probably like you guys way back, the four kids. Now it's less is more kind of a thing. I watched this guy's short series. I loved it, by the way.

I'm wondering why you don't do more of those, because I think you have your, and we're probably going to get comments on this right now, but I miss it. Because I felt like you were my guide on the side, like going through your transformation. Yeah, it was a lot, you know what, to be, and Justin just went through it, right? So Justin just, Justin did a series on hitting a PR of 315 and he documented the whole thing.

Overhead press. It's a... Dude, overhead press? 315? Hey, that was a part. He thought it was calves, dude. No, he didn't work out his calves. Don't get us started on that.

Just jump, bro. Yeah. So... Good job, man. It was, it was a major commitment. It was a lot. That's a lot of commitment. Yeah, it's like, to do it right, I think,

I documented everything, right? So I was on my Instagram. It's a lot of work. And taking this conversation full circle to having a kid and stuff like that, like, I mean, during that time, I remember apologizing to my wife and my son that, hey, daddy's going to do this for the next couple of months,

so bear with me. This is a priority. And so every day day when I would, because this is our, we have to do this, this is what really makes the business go. That's like a nice to have a bonus that we were doing. It's good for the business, people love it, they want more of it, but it takes a lot of commitment outside of this to do that. And so yeah, a lot of my time that I normally would be spending with my son or my own time with my whatever was now dedicated to like documenting this product. That's why like man when I see some of these people I'm so blessed to how we built this business and

that it's really centered around this right here which we all love to do so much and it's it's been good enough to us that we can have a living off of it. Because the typical Instagram influencer person that makes good money is like, man, it's like, they don't separate their personal life from... No. That is their business. It becomes it. And we all never wanted that. And we all agreed that I didn't want...

I remember you saying that on our first interview. That's right. Something like that. And so we keep it, I share a lot of, we all share a lot of our personal life, but we keep a lot of it to ourselves too. Like I don't document all of it. And so that three months, why I think people eat it up is you get to see me, I really documented my life.

Nothing like it. Yeah, and so people ate it up because it was- I mean, I've watched C-Bum, I've watched, what's the other guy's name Sam Kulik or whatever? And it's okay. It's all okay. But the way you were doing it man I enjoyed it and I got a lot of I felt like the way we did it I thought was unique like that was kind of like a fly on the wall type. Yeah, it was cool Yeah, like where I was just kind of talking to myself Like I thought thought what we did was pretty cool. I wish it supported the business more to justify

doing it more often. Exactly. That's the hard part. It is. That's the hard part. And for the listener who's wondering why we don't, it's like, you know, it's got to make sense. The amount of effort and time that I put into that. There's so many other things that I can do within the business. And the ROI is significantly greater. As much as maybe the consumer, you love it. It's got to make sense to take away from us personally. But I feel you.

Yeah, I love watching that and applying it to my life. Because I was under the impression that I needed to work out four times a week, at least an hour every time. And I was just running myself into the ground. Girl dad, less sleep, mold in the house. I mean, my lymphatic system was probably mucked up because I have the MTHFR gene mutation as well.

And I got all that going on. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's like all these variables I had to deal with. Now it's, I would say three times a week, 30 to 45 minutes. I make sure I get at least 15,000 steps a day, usually, on a good day, is the goal. Well, that's it, how you look great.

Thank you, brother. Yeah, you build a good base, you've been training for so long. Yeah, it's so long. I started lifting. It sticks around too, when you build a good base. It does, and it's easy. It's so easy.

Yeah. Because I- Isn't that funny? We need to sell that, we try to sell that off on the show. It's like, especially if you build muscle, keeping it's not hard. It's so easy. Building it's hard. It that off on the show. It's like, especially if you build muscle, keeping it's not hard. Yeah. Building it's hard.

Keeping it is easy. I don't eat nearly as much. Cause you're not. That's the other thing that I was just talking on my Instagram the other day about if I were to like unpack the thing that I've worked on though, someone asked me a question like,

what are you working on the most in your life or something like that? I said, you know, the thing that I've gotten much better at in my 40s that I didn't have such a good time or it wasn't very good at my 30s, my 20s is balancing my nutrition with what I'm doing with my activity and my training. So it's I've always been all on or all off all the time where now I'm very mindful. Like, hey, this has been kind of a lazy week for me. I didn't get into my training as much. I didn't get my steps as much. So very much so that that might be the time where I'm intermittent fasting. That by the time I skip out on that

dessert or that popcorn or the thing, I'm really good now in my 40s of like telling myself that, hey, if I want those things, I need to go earn them by moving and doing the things. And if I don't, because I get busy and life happens or I'm traveling, then I adjust the diet. And as as simple as that may seem, it's hard to be consistent and practice that. 100%. And I've gotten better at that. I've gotten older of doing that.

That's made a big hack for me, too. Likewise on that. And it's more about recovery for me. So it's getting the daily solar calis built up, getting outside in the sun, planting my feet in the grass, 30 minutes. I would choose that over lifting weights now. That's my kick right now.

We have a pool, and I'm like, I've been like laying out. And like, I'm like, man, I haven't eaten up this much sun in so long. It feels so good. Because your inflammation goes way down. Just feel good. Your abs are going to look leaner and tighter. I feel good.

I just feel better all the way around. You're optimized. And my workouts are meh right now. But I'm getting outside way more. And it's like, to me, like, that's another thing too, is I feel like the whole health sphere is so much more than just lifting iron. I mean, that's a big part, don't get me wrong.

And it's probably one of the best. You gotta do it. It's one of the best ROIs of all the things that we talk about, right? Is lifting weights, eating correctly, and so those are pillars. But so is getting outside and getting in the sun. And I've neglected that a lot in the last decade or two.

And it's, I'm trying trying to be better about that. And I feel a difference. We're obsessive kind of guys. And I love to lift heavy ass weights. There's no greater. I mean, if I don't lift three days, if I haven't lifted in three days, I start to feel off. Just a little depressed where it's like, what's going on?

Thoughts that wouldn't affect me are now affecting me. So as soon as I pick up the iron or I'm in the gym, it's like, ah, this is my bliss spot. But it's a lot less now. Diet's plugged in. I eat when I'm hungry. So I may go all day and just have one meal. And I feel great doing that.

It's like, in the morning it might be caffeine o'clock as opposed to having breakfast. And I feel better than I ever have. Like I said, my blood test showed that my inflammation was a little high. Cholesterol was a little high as well. How often are you doing those? Do you check up on? Every three months is goal. OK, so every three months. How old are you now, Drew?

44. OK, yeah, we're all the same generation. Yeah, I thought we were the same. Around the same age. You and I are the same. They're a little bit older than we are. They're older guys. Doug's way the fuck older.

I'm a little bit older. I'm a little bit older. I'm a little bit older. I'm a little bit older. You and I are the same. They're a little bit. They're older He is the old wise one here keeps us straight for sure Thank you for listening to mind pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body straight for sure. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com.

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