Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2634: Four Weird Reasons You Have Joint or Muscle Pain & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: July 5, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: 4 Weird Reasons You Have Joint or Muscle Pain. (1:43) The highest IQ ever recorded. (19:24) The top 5 physical attributes that women consider attractive in a man. (26:33) There are levels to everything. (30:37) Pondering vs. speed when it comes to making decisions. (34:56) Creatine and women. (38:44) How addiction flourishes in the dark. (42:19) Psilocybin and depression. (43:21) Controversial parenting topic: Spanking your kids. (45:31) #ListenerLive question #1 – Given my scale weight isn’t moving, should I try higher calories even though I can’t do as much volume-wise? (1:02:52) #ListenerLive question #2 – Can you mix the workouts from different phases of a MAPS program based on the settings and time you have to workout for that week? (1:16:03) #ListenerLive question #3 – Am I wasting my time doing hot vinyasa style yoga? Does it have any benefits as far as building muscle and burning fat? (1:26:23) #ListenerLive question #4 – Within the MAPS programs, what do you suggest for focusing on shoulders/traps and how do you incorporate MAPS Prime into your strength training? (1:37:12) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Caldera Lab for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MINDPUMP20 for 20% off your first order of their best products. ** Visit Rock Recovery Center for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Ben and Tom know firsthand the struggles of addiction and alcoholism. With years of experience helping thousands of individuals, they offer a free consultation call to discuss your situation. Whether you’re personally battling addiction or have a loved one in need of help, they’re here to guide you toward the support you need. By filling out the form and scheduling your call, you’ll also be entered for a chance to win a free 60-day scholarship at Rock Recovery Center, their premier treatment center in West Palm Beach, Florida. Don’t wait—take the first step today. ** July Special: MAPS Split or Anabolic Metabolism Bundle 50% off! ** Code JULY50 at checkout ** Cerebral and spinal modulation of pain by emotions - PubMed Pain, anxiety, and depression - Harvard Health MP Holistic Health World's Smartest Man Professes Christian Faith On Social Media Mind Pump #2530: Why All Women Should Take Creatine $1000 on the Line, Wrestling Mario Lopez - YouTube 6 Science-Backed Reasons Women Should Be Taking Creatine Single psilocybin trip delivers two years of depression relief for cancer patients 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos – Book by Jordan B. Peterson Risks of harm from spanking confirmed by analysis of 5 decades of research Visit Brain.fm for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners. ** Get 30 days of free access to science-backed music. ** Stronger Kids | United States | KidStrong Mind Pump #2312: Five Steps to Bounce Back From Overtraining The Wall Test | Mind Pump TV MAPS Prime Pro Webinar Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Mario Lopez (@mariolopez) Instagram GEORGIO POULLAS (@georgiopoullas) Instagram Jordan B. Peterson (@JordanBPeterson) Twitter/X Justin Brink DC (@dr.justinbrink) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is mind pump. In today's episode we coached callers. People called in, we got to coach their fitness and health live on air, but this was after the intro. Today's intro was 60 minutes long and today's intro we talked about fat loss muscle gain pain relief Talk about family life. It's good time. By the way, if you have a question that you want answered or you want to get coached Send us your question at live at mind pump media calm This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Caldera Lab.

This is all natural, scientifically made skin care products. They work. Go check them out. Go to calderalab.com. That's C-A-L-D-E-R-A-L-A-B.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump 20, get 20% off. This episode's also brought to you by Rock Recovery Center. This is a rehab facility for people who are suffering from addiction. Look, if you or a loved

one, family, friend need help, go to rockrecoverycenter.com forward slash mind pump. They're giving away a free scholarship for four months of treatment. By the way, somebody will reach out to everybody and will help point you in the right direction. So again, if you need help go to rock recovery center calm forward slash mind pump We also have a sale on some workout programs maps split in the anabolic metabolism bundle of programs both of those 50% off if you're interested go to maps at fitness products calm and then use the code July 50 for the discount here comes a show You have joint pain or muscle pain, something hurts or maybe a lot of things hurt and you've done everything to

figure out why and you can't seem to find the answer. Well believe it or not there are weird reasons why you may actually have joint and muscle pain and we're gonna talk about it and it's real. We got the data to back it up. Let's get into it. Yeah. Pain. It's complicated. We got to data to back it up. Let's get into it. Yeah. Pain. It's complicated. We got to open up by saying that pain is one of the most complicated things. Uh, we think of it as just purely this physiological thing that's happening, but there there's definitely, you can measure the physiological, uh, things

that are happening and then there's this subjective experience of pain and they're so closely intertwined that it's incredibly, incredibly complex. Psychological issues attached to it. Oh, that's the first one. And I remember the first time I realized this, I had a client who worked in mental health and she, and I didn't believe her and then she showed me the studies. She said, Sal, you know that a significant percentage of people that go on anti-depression medication or work with a therapist actually see pain go away. I'm like, no way.

What if there's this? What if there's that? She broke it down to me and it is totally true. Your emotional state, in particular depression and anxiety, dramatically increase the rate of pain that you're going to feel by changing. They've actually in studies they show the parts of the brain that it activates like the amygdala. It actually heightens pain signal processing. So whatever signals you're getting your- Amplifies it up.

Amplifies the hell out of you. You're far more likely to feel pain when you're depressed or anxious than you would if you're not. And that can translate into I have pain or I don't. Which is pretty wild. What is, do you know the percentage breakdown by chance of chronic versus acute pain like that we deal with just as a society?

Well acute, so to define that right, acute pain is like I hurt myself. Yeah, I broke a bone. I just did it. Yeah, rolled an ankle or something., acute pain is like I hurt myself. Yeah, I broke a bone. I just did it. Yeah, rolled an ankle and that's like acute. Chronic pain is like everything healed, but what the heck, why do I still hurt? What's going on? And I know chronic pain is far more common.

Way more prevalent. That's why I was curious to like, because when I think back to all the clients that I trained that dealt with pain, only a very small percentage that I helped that were coming out of a surgery, just rolled an ankle or tore a ligament or something like that. I did get those, right? We rehabbed those people, many times got them after physical therapy and then I trained them. But a vast majority of them was chronic pain, which for a young trainer was like, oh my

God, like trying to get to the bottom of that. I think part of what probably made all of us pretty good trainers was the difficulty of trying to solve this. Of somebody who basically tell you things like. So many layers to it. Yeah, I've always had low back pain and then you say, oh, what happened? And they're like, I don't know,

I've just always had low back pain. And they say things like, I have a bad back or I have bad knees or bad shoulders. And it's like, but they can't even they can't even pinpoint a time in their life where something happened is just as always bothered them and they tend to defer to age, you know, you'll see and that's what they used to tell me when I was young 20 year old like, Oh, you'll see. You'll see when you get my age. You know what I'm saying? What are you? 22? So like, 22? So eventually you all get it, and it's just like, trying to figure that out and solve that

as a young trainer was super challenging. Well, this emotional connection to pain is fascinating. I found a study in 2022 that was in Frontiers in Psychology that showed that, oh sorry, this was in psychosomatic medicine. People with pain who also suffer from anxiety and depression, when they did therapy, on average they would notice a 30% decrease in pain. No exercise. 30%.

No correctional anything, no pain meds, not even medical interventions for depression, but just going to therapy reduced their pain measurement by 30%. I have a personal experience with this with my wife. When I met her, she had this chronic shoulder pain. Now, prior to meeting her, she had traveled with Cirque du Soleil for years.

She wasn't in the act, she was called a guardian, we're younger performers, she would like keep an eye on them type of deal. But while she was with them, she trained with some of the best athletes in the world in the silks. In fact, she got really good at it to the point where she could do the splits on them and she could do a whole performance. But anyway, she loved the silks, it was one of the first physical things she did in her

life. She learned that she was actually a gifted athlete in the sense where she thought before growing up she wasn't at all. And if you guys know my wife, you know she's got those muscle genes, but she didn't know that. So she learned this about herself,

became addicted to the silks, hurt her shoulder. So that's the story, that's the background. I meet her, she talks about this chronic pain, and I end up doing correctional exercise with her, and her shoulder function got good. It got fine, but the shoulder pain didn't go away. And I remember being like perplexed, like what's going on here? And then we had this conversation.

I said, you know, I think this shoulder pain and injury means a lot to you because it took away this thing that you, that showed you that you could be physical, that you could be fit, this life changing, you couldn't do any more traumatizing. We had this conversation, no joke. She thought a lot about this, journaled. A week later she was thinking about how it might be psychosomatic and the pain went away and it didn't come back.

It literally just went away. It's like the body's storing some memories there. Yes, and they're connected too because if you have, by the way, being depressed and anxious also makes yourself hold your body differently. Oh yeah, well I was gonna say there's a lot of body workers and physical, like massage workers and people like that that actually have attributed certain types of pain to like say it like I'm super anxious about something,

I'm putting something off or, and then it's interesting interesting and again, this is a lot more of the Eastern Type of philosophy as Katrina's family if I if you tell her where you're having pain They'll connect it to a specific type of issue. Yeah. Oh, you must be having problems with even there's a there's a male side and a female side There are certain body parts that correlate with other things. So if you are challenged on one side It's like oh, this is you have a Problem with a female or a male in your life. There's certain things That's anger like certain stuff like that like so all the body parts are connected to a type of even so yeah I don't know how much I

Subscribe but sometimes it's accurate. Well, there's weird there is data that shows that well I think it's an example of what you always talk about. It's like, there's something there, 100%. And I'll tell you what, try convincing somebody in her family that it's not. They've been working on people their whole life and helping people with stuff like that, and they've had all these profound stories,

so heaven forbid you tell them that it's not true, and it's more about how they've communicated it for several. Well, first of all, try separating the emotional from the physical impossible. Yeah you can't you can't. One communicates to the other and causes sensations in the other and vice versa and oftentimes it can become a positive feedback loop. For example, I have an injury or something happens to me, I'm anxious, I have this let's say let's say I have PTSD over it. Because of that, I hold my body in a different way, which causes more muscle tension, which causes more dysfunction, which causes more pain, which contributes to more anxiety and depression and the cycle goes on and on.

Well, it also from a very scientific and from our, you know, Western scientific logic does still make a lot of sense when you think about the brain being this, this hub that sends these neurons to all these parts of your body. and scientific logic does still make a lot of sense. When you think about the brain being this hub that sends these neurons to all these parts of your body and that if there is some sort of a short circuit there that it would physically affect that, right? That makes sense to me. It's connected. It's not disconnected. Yeah. I mean, so you would think and the brain is essentially... Your body is essentially extension of your brain.

Yeah. If you, I mean,'s what it plainly yes so so it would make sense that if I've got a bunch of trauma or memories or think blockage or inflammation all the above that it's going to affect the connectivity and circuit that of the entire there's data I mean just get real specific very logical to get real specific sexual trauma or abuse is connected to pelvic floor pain or numbness. Right.

It could go in the other direction too where I don't feel anything in this area of my body because I disconnected from it. And it's a psychosomatic, by the way, I hate saying psychosomatic because what people think that means. I'll sing a prodigy immediately. Yeah.

What people think that means is I made it up. Oh, what do you mean? It's psychosomatic, it's in my head, so that's not real? No, it's real, you feel it. The best example I could give for this is phantom limb syndrome, it's a real thing. Somebody loses an arm and they feel, the arm is gone, and they feel tremendous pain and pressure.

As if it's still there. As if it's still there. By the way, one of the treatments for this is a mirror box, I don't know if you guys knew this, where, I don't remember when they discovered this, but if you put the missing limb part of the arm in this mirror box and mirror the other arm and then do some exercises, your brain will connect

and visualize that being your arm and then all of a sudden you'll see the pain release and feel like it's been a lot. Didn't they also have one where they had like a artificial limb that they could see on the other side and then they would affect that limb and they would feel it, everything they were doing to the artificial limb. Oh, that's the mirror box again.

The mirror box, yeah. They'll tickle your hand and they'll have a fake hand and they'll hit it with a hammer. Prod it with like a pin. Yeah, I mean it's all, it's very real so trying to work on, by the way, part of the reason why correctional exercise works so well, the obvious, is you're correcting movement dysfunction. Here's the other reason why, and I never talk about this, but here's the other reason why correctional exercise works so well, is because you're doing something.

You're actively working on it. You're actively working on something. Yeah, the psychological part. And the psychological part is it feels good to be able to tackle this issue and move in a positive direction. And so then you get the positive feedback loop in the good direction,

where I feel like I'm doing something for this, oh my God, I'm feeling better, I can do this, let me do more, and it gets better and better and better. But there are definitely lots of, whether you have pain or you don't, your pain can be amplified through negative emotion, or you can actually feel pain that isn't coming from a physiological issue,

it's actually coming from an emotional issue, and that's something that people don't know about. The next one is nutrient deficiencies. Nutrient deficiencies, which are relatively common in modern societies, can cause lots of physical pain. Vitamin D is a common one. I was going to say, vitamin D, isn't B vitamin sometimes connected to, you see that with B vitamin or just?

The most common ones are vitamin D and magnesium that you'll find. B vitamin, yeah, that'll make you really, that'll cause neuropathic pain. So magnesium is more like cramping and like muscle spasm. Yep. Yep. Yep. And hypersensitivity. So, magnesium deficiency causes nerve hypersensitivity. Vitamin D deficiency just feels like overall pain in your body.

Pain in your bones and your joints. I've told this story to my dad. This is my dad. We never thought he had a vitamin D deficiency because he's always outside. And now he's in his late 60s. He's worked hard labor since he was nine years old. So it was easy to dismiss and just say, oh, you've got arthritis in your spine,

which he does, you know, arthritis in your... Yeah, it's like inevitable, right? He's like, oh, my body, I'm getting older, everything's hurting, and it was getting worse and worse and worse and worse. He was taking painkillers. Finally goes to the doctor for a routine blood test. The doctor's like, let me just test your vitamin D.

And it was really low. He took vitamin D and within days gone. And I remember my dad was just like blown away. Oh my God, I can't believe taking vitamin D. But B, magnesium is one of them, B vitamin is another one. What about also being like just really low on protein or fats? Like, will that cause that if you're-

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Macro nutrient deficiency? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely, it can cause pain. So, too low a calorie diets are far more likely to cause pain in this

scenario with nutrient deficiencies. Because if your calories are low, that means your macronutrients are low, and also means your micronutrients are low. So the odds that you're going to have a nutrient deficiency, a micronutrient deficiency at 1500 calories are far higher than if you're at 2500 calories, all things. I know, would you guys say it's pretty common too, or at least we've seen this quite a bit, where people are punishing their body while also being grossly under eating.

It's like a lot of the chronic pain is just that. You don't even realize it, but you are beating your body up and you're in just kind of low level inflammation, chronic pain all the time. It's because your body is screaming at you like, I need rest, recovery and feed me. It's louder if you don't listen to it. Totally. Next up is poor sleep. This one is, we've all experienced this,

if you're a parent. You get bad sleep, and you're just less, you just perceive everything that's painful or worse. Yeah, poor sleep, I feel achy. Achy. They show a study that's sleeping six hours a night, which isn't like that loud. It's like loud noises, you're just like.

They've tested this, increases pain sensitivity by 20%. Yeah. Six hours a night. That's not even apparent. I mean, I can see that. Four hours a night. If you recall like the last time you had a really bad sleep, I could just, I could feel my body.

Oh yeah. Or you just feel the way it feels, just like, ugh. Everything just aches. Yeah, you're also less hot and cold tolerant. That's me, when I'm really exhausted, it's easier for me to be cold or if I'm a son. I wonder if I've ever connected that that's interesting Yeah, so your overall tolerance to everything goes down, but poor sleep is a big one. In fact, I Tated in fact, this was something I didn't I wasn't good at I wasn't good at as a trainer When it came to sleep until the very very end of my career way way way, way, way, way, way late into my career. And it's because I learned it

from someone else. I had a this incredible practitioner in my studio who talked about sleep all the time and she had patients, she was actually a physical therapist but she did all kinds of stuff, she had patients who all she did with them in the beginning was work on their sleep and they'd come in and talk about how great their knees felt and their back felt. Now I was so early in my understanding of sleep at that point that I thought it was like placebo effects. Boy did I miss the boat on that one. She was 100% correct. Just from fixing their sleep. In fact they're showing that if you have an

insomniac, somebody who's got terrible sleep, give them one night of good sleep, their pain will go down. The back pain will go down by 15%. Wow. One good night of sleep. And then lastly, suboptimal water intake. This one's an easy one to fix. Also pretty common too. It is.

Yeah. Now I say- Especially with joint pain, yeah. Now notice how I said suboptimal water intake. The reason why I have to say that is because what tends to happen when we talk about drinking water. I drink water. Well you get that. Or the studies that people come out and say like you don't need that much water blah blah blah. It's like you could survive for a long time

with that. It's like you get all that. You get that camp that comes out. Yeah you get this like yes if you drink when you're thirsty you're not gonna you're not gonna have so little water that you're gonna hurt yourself. You'll be able to stay alive. You're fine. If you drink when you're thirsty, you're fine. But it's not optimal.

It's suboptimal. Optimal is more than that. Just like protein, there's optimal, there's what's essential. Just like with movement, there's essential, and there's what's called. And in the context of exercise and moving, which most people listening to this are doing also.

So it's like, when you are doing exercises, I mean this was an issue for me I wouldn't I remember I kept injuring myself and having pain Oh, this was I remember your whatever quad, right? Yeah, and it just kept kept reoccurring and the thing I kept pointing to was like, you know what? I've never I wasn't tracking it wasn't and as soon as I started like really pushing the water and take up All that stuff went away. Just no more pain, no more pulling the quad anymore. And I wasn't under drinking water so much that I couldn't survive or live or get by,

but it was suboptimal for my training. The amount of training I was doing and lifting, my joints, my body needed to be lubricated more and I wasn't giving it enough. And simply bumping that up completely eliminated that. Yeah, it also, with of course in combination with electrolyte balance, this is how muscles contract and communicate. And when it's optimal, they're going to contract and communicate well. You're going to move well.

You're going to have good extensibility, good pliability. When things are suboptimal, they're just not moving as well. It's a bit more friction. Yeah, and that can cause, but with this one's interesting because when, if this is you, this is an easy fix. Like a couple days of drinking enough water and suddenly you're like, whoa.

The emotions one's a bit difficult. That one's tough, bro. That's the hardest one. By the way, back to, you know, massage therapy, I had, in my studio, I had one of the best, you know, body workers that I've ever met, right? She was such an exceptional massage therapist and I remember, you know, and what we do in my studio is, I had all these different practitioners and ideally they would work with multiple people in there

because I was the fitness expert then I had someone to do hormones, I had, you know, so we'd have people do all of them. And I can't tell you how many times clients would come out and they'd be like, how was your massage? Like, I cried. Like, what do you mean you cried? Because it was so good? I don't know what happened. She was pressing on my psoas or she was massaging me

and I just felt these emotions come out. And it's like, and I remember, I didn't understand it back then, but there's definitely a connection between all that stuff. So anyway, I got something cool for you guys. I didn't understand it back then, but there's definitely a connection between all that stuff. Anyway, I got something cool for you guys. The highest IQ ever recorded. You guys wanna guess what that was?

Ooh, I feel like I've read this before. It's making, the reason why this is- Is it recent? Wait, wait, is it, I mean, is it, what country is this person from? I think he's South Korean. Okay. Yeah, Korean.

So the reason why this is going viral right now is because he just did a post that, what he said in the post was Jesus Christ is king. And the reason why it's going viral is because this is the highest IQ ever recorded who is saying something that is spiritual, which oftentimes the world thinks if you're really smart then you're not religious or vice versa.

Interesting. Sure. His IQ, 276. Ooh. I didn't even know it went that high. 176. I didn't know it went that high. He's got the official world record. What was Einstein's?

He's also a world memory champion with that. Yeah, what was Einstein's? Look at that and I mean. I know that they, what's his name? Leonardo da Vinci. Vinci. She's probably the because he's the master of so many things I didn't even know. Yeah, it feels so stupid. This is the highest 160 yeah, I thought Hundreds was like crazy. Yeah, I didn't even know it went over 200 over Is over one time What's over 120?

Mensa's, yeah, that's a special class. Have you guys ever had your IQs tested? No. No. I'm a little bit afraid. I did a long time ago. And how'd you do? Uh, 122 or something like that.

So you can consider Mensa? It was like, I think there's other qualifications. So they're suggesting that DaVci was between 180 and 220. Oh wow. This guy measured at 276. How do they test that? Okay, so does that mean that he's amazing at multiple disciplines? So he also has, you know, artistic ability.

He also has cognitive ability. How would Da Vinci rate higher than Einstein? I wouldn't give you a trivia. Da Vinci was artistically brilliant. He was has cognitive. How would DaVinci rate higher than Einstein? I wouldn't have, if you gave me a trivia. DaVinci was artistically brilliant. He was scientifically brilliant. So that is, so it's multiple disciplines. I don't know. That's a good question.

How does, if you had it, would you have guessed that? I wouldn't have. If I had to guess Einstein or DaVinci, I would have said Einstein. I would have just assumed that. How is IQ, okay, IQ tests are used to measure an individual's cognitive abilities and intellectual potential. These tests are used to measure an individual's cognitive abilities and intellectual potential.

These tests are standardized assessments administered to evaluate various aspects of intelligence like logical reasoning, problem solving, verbal and nonverbal. So then I'm assuming that DaVinci had all of them and so maybe... Yeah, it's got to be. You know what's crazy about this by the way? Okay, I'm going to use, we'll use physical attributes as just an analogy. When you have those genetically gifted,

like top 1.1% athletes, right? Like a NFL superstar or NBA superstar or a world's strongest man competitor, like they're so far in a way physically, I guess, superior just for you, you know, in a way, physically, I guess, superior just for use in terms of athletic performance, away from the average person, it doesn't make any sense. Like if you've ever, if you've ever, it's not even close.

If you've ever been around a genetically gifted to that level professional athlete and done something with them, you realize just how they're like, it's a different species. How minuscule your skills are. So the average person who doesn't, I shouldn't say does, it's over-simplication.

Not many people really I think grasp what the, like how much that gap is because we get to watch it at the professional level. And so you're- With other superstars. Exactly. So you're watching one percenters fight amongst each other, yeah. So like for example, like Wimby, right? Who's behind me.

Yeah. Like he is so crazy, but we're watching him in the NBA and he's so crazy. And he's still crazy. And he's crazy. Put that guy against average men that play basketball and it's like, it doesn't even. Those are little toddlers.

Yeah. So I know you have Justin, so I want your input on this too because you played college football, but I remember at one point I was so good at Jiu Jitsu that I could hang with anybody in the local schools. Black belts had a tough time tangling with me. I would lose to them, but they'd have a tough time. Then this guy came from Brazil who was a world champion.

I don't remember his name. I just can't remember his name. He was a black belt. I was only a purple belt. But I'd gone against black belts, so I knew what it was like to go against competitive black belts. I'm fit. I think I'm good. And he schooled me so bad, you guys.

I felt like I knew nothing. Like nothing. Like to the point where I remember I laughed after he tapped me out like four times. I started laughing and I'm like, this is ridiculous. And he had poor English, you know? And then he was having fun with me because I was laughing and getting frustrated. And he would poor English, you know? And then he was having fun with me, because I was laughing and getting frustrated. And he would tell me, okay, I get to your right arm. And he'd do a countdown.

And I couldn't stop it. And he'd get me a submission. And I just realized that there's such a crazy difference between like, I'm good in my school versus world class. So the reason why I'm saying that is, imagine a guy with an IQ like this. He must feel so bored talking. Well yeah, you must get really frustrated

talking to the average person. Because half of what comes out of our mouths, he's like, that's so stupid. Yeah, it's like hanging out with five year olds. Most governments just like take them from us. We never see them. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like when you're with five year olds,

you're like, I like crayons, and they're eating them. And you're like, that's nice. Yeah. That's cool, that's cute. You know, you're talking about Jiu Jitsu. Did you see, what is the guy's name, the famous actor who is also a Caldera partnership with like us?

He's Mario Lopez. Oh, Caldera Lab. Oh, he wrestled with one of them. Yes, did you watch him? He's a good wrestler. Bro. Is he? I didn't see him.

You know the Giorgio guy who does the Take Me Down for $1,000? Oh, he did that with him? Bro, he's- I think he carried himself better than anybody yet. He's one of the best ones I've seen. I've seen Giorgio go against high level wrestlers. I mean, say by the Bell years, he was like always like, donning his- And I knew he was into that stuff, but I mean, Giorgio has been whooping everybody.

Giorgio's incredible. I've seen him go against great grapplers. He's a great wrestler. Mario Lopez is 50 or 50 something. He doesn't look like that's for sure. He was moving. I thought it was going to be like a, like a, you know, play for publicity type of deal. And it's like, Oh, he's going to get whooped so fast. But he hung dude.

He did really good. I'm going to have to watch that. He did really good. Yeah. I don't know if Doug can pull it up in time, but you know, he's also boxes a lot like, cause I, I've never listened to some interview with Him and somebody else famous, but that's how they get most of training is I tell you what I used to you know Cuz he does he was a wrestler. He does all the pop stuff

And so I've always thought he's kind of cheesy guy, but now I'm like so much respect. Okay, so hold on He was a high school former high school wrestler He was recognized as an outstanding American by the National Wrestling Hall of Fame in 2022 He was a state place winner in one class California wrestling for Chula Vista High School So he's a he's a badass. I think he also does jiu-jitsu. So he continues to train but how old is he Doug? He's 50. Is he 50 or 50? He's in his 50s. I don't know if he's what he is, but he's in his 50s. 51. 51 dude. Yeah, so impressed. He looks like a baby. I was so I don't know. I mean know he colors his hair come on it's that caldera lab right there reversing him in a speaking of which of skin I looked up the top five physical

attributes that women consider attractive in a man skin top five skin made it really top five I would not It was in the category of hygiene, so they put teeth, skin in there, so both in there. Interesting. And so I looked deeper into it because, okay. That's good. I was challenging Sal a little bit off air, like, sell me on me being, you know, as honoree as I am and my dry skin and everything else, like, why should I, you know, if I'm just listening like why should I you know if I'm just listening why should I you know? You don't have bad skin though. I don't think you I mean you say you have dry And you're in your yeah ghost white, but you don't have But you have bad skin. I think I have worse skin than you do I mean I held their lab is definitely hydrated you for sure. Yeah, it has yeah, you were you were like a desert Maybe that's what it is. I'm used to seeing you now. Maybe that's what it was

Pre Caldera lab. So here's what they are. Here's what the top things were right facial symmetry and masculine features So like strong jawline or defined brow ridge. Okay, by the way That's linked to higher testosterone levels. All of these signs are for vitality and for fertility Right. Your reality is the scars on there? No, but scars, that's funny that you say that. Scars do consider, women do consider. That wasn't top five though. No, it wasn't.

Bird face has that. Hi. Hi. It's not a thing. It's not a thing. Bird like quality. I have nothing to say back there. I'm trying to say something back.

You gotta go ahead and chip my cheeks. You gotta throw it back. All right. The next was height. So height, of course. Oh, height's top five, huh? That's number two. That's because evolutionary preferences, right?

Because it provides security. Probably better hunter, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it's a big one. Muscular build was number three. Broad shoulders in particular. It was the hip to waist ratio. Wow. So, excuse me, shoulder to waist ratio of 1.6 to 1 so your your

shoulder should be 1.6 times the waist the width of your waist they considered that to be if you got a big junk yeah huh yeah you're a little boxy bro yeah good shoulders yeah but he's got me here, dude. We're talking about that. Yeah, but he's also got big hips, too. I have to make sure I keep that ratio. He's so wide, he's got the ratio, bro. He is. He's got big hips, though, too.

You got a good ratio. That's because you have small waist. Yeah. You also got pretty wide shoulders, though. I do. I'm winning so far, except for the face thing. It was like a kite. Yeah.

I look like a kite. Like a kite. Like a string at the bottom. Posterum, body language was up there. And then at the end it was hygiene. And skin is up there and it's because skin, when your skin is well hydrated and healthy looking, it projects health and testosterone.

High testosterone in men tends to give you a hydrated, not oily, but a little bit, right, of that look. Is that true? Yes, yeah, absolutely. You know what darkens your skin a little bit too, do you know that? I didn't know that. Yeah, testosterone darkens skin a little bit.

Huh, interesting. Yeah, so there you go, fellas. I like the- You macho dudes, you wanna get some girls? Just tell them they're allowed. Man, we should've tried to guess those, because I don't know if I would've guessed those or not. I like that-

What were you thinking? Oh, I don don't know I hadn't thought about it so but when you were saying yeah I would probably would have went that direction like certain things like you know what makes the top ten what but oh but women like a nice but I don't I don't think that's weird I think girl I think actually it's we we tend to think that guys only think of that but like every girl I've ever talked to a guy with a nice but it's for different reasons I think it's just we don't, a guy with a nice butt. It's like. For different reasons though. I think it's just if you don't have one, it's a problem.

Yeah. Yeah. But they don't really, yeah. Well, it's for different reasons. They don't obsess over it. This is what the scientists say, right? For different reasons, like for women, like men like a butt.

We obsess over it. For breeding reasons. Well, yeah, because the hips, it's more hips than anything. Yeah. You're probably more likely to have a successful childbirth, but for men, like weak glutes or hips, you ain't, you're not athletic, dude.

You ain't got a lot of power. No, no. I mean, you know this, right, Justin? The guys on the football field with the cakes. Yeah, yeah. I was in contention with me. I wanna hear from you what your experience was like as a football player,

cause you were a star football player in high school. I was. You were the man. Yeah, I know. You were like, so Uncle Rico, dude. I was like, for sure, like my glory days, dude. They came and went. Yeah. And then you got to college, and then it was so humble.

Well, it was like, it was easy. You know, and that was like, it was so misleading for me, because I trained really hard, and I've always had to train really hard to produce, you know, athleticism and the level that I was at. But I would walk circles around everybody, like at the high school level. And I was just like, Oh man, I'm really good at this. You know, and then I get into college and, um, you know, I still could hold my own, but then it got really hard. Once we started to play more like D one level type talent,

do you remember the first time that you had that awakening where you're, Oh, we played this school cause we were in a small school. Well, even when I was trying out for San Jose State, and I had to like a walk on, and there was guys on there that were just transfers from Miami and from all these powerhouse schools. And they were just using us as tackling dummies. And oh my god, that's the first time I've been like legit run over with full effort. You got trucked?

Trucked. Yeah. I was, I just like, I had, they pulled me out to the side and I had to like recover. My on-reass went right back in there for more. And I'm sure that's why I don't have a lot of good memory recall. But yeah, stuff like that happened. And I'm sure that's why I don't have a lot of good memory recall. Um, but yeah, stuff like that happened. And then I just kind of worked through it and I just, it was a grind. Like I had, I just, I looked at it as a challenge. I had to just get stronger. And, and then once I, uh, finished college and was like thinking about, um, you know, trying to do, uh, the combine, uh, that was where I was like, I'm done, I'm done.

Cause everybody there was at least like six, seven, six, eight, like full on, like pure muscle and running way faster than me and jumping higher than me. Like they could just jump over me. That's just like, this isn't even close. It's crazy how many levels are within all the levels too, right? So like you're describing just the call high school to college, like pro is even one and even within like high school.

So, I mean, I was never the star football player, but when I was at a division for high school, my first high school, so my freshman year, and I was a star player. I was the star player. Most points scored steals everything. I let it, let it everyone just awesome. Right. And right? And you know, and I was pretty good at all the other sports. Soccer, I was really good at too back then. Then I get transferred to a Division II school. Yeah. And I rode the bench. Oh, my fucking parents flipped out. Like they just couldn't, they were like, how could our

son who was like this star player? But I knew it. These kids are fucking better than me. You know what I'm saying? Like I practice with them every day. You know what I'm saying? And it's just like, it's such a humbling experience. It's actually a good, now looking back, it sucked, but it's such a great group. It was good for me, because I was not the kid who was just like, yeah, I should get played. I was like, no, they're better than me.

I need to fucking practice. But I was used to being so good. And then just going up two levels within high school, I wasn't even at D1, and then I'm not even talking about college, so it's crazy how, you know you you're in your little bubble and maybe you are good and you're a little bubble of friends and it's just like you get introduced to the world and there's levels to all this like productivity like whether you love him or hate on like Elon Musk whether you're a fan of

his or not the productivity the guy does doesn't make any sense whatsoever the companies he's managing, and what he does, does he not sleep? And then he plays video games, he's like top rank. I don't think he does sleep much. Might not, right? He's also miserable as fuck. But do you know the attribute, like people like him,

one of, there's many factors, but one of the number one factors is the speed at which they make decisions. Fast. Super fast. And think about your day, like like how many things like everything from What you need to eat to how you're talking a lot. Yeah, we do him and ha a lot We're all guilty of this if you go through your whole day

How many things do you do deliberate between this or that and the and those minutes five minutes here seven minutes there? I don't I mean, yeah, I mean look look at how long it takes to sometimes start a podcast. It takes nine minutes sometimes, sometimes longer. It's just like, that doesn't exist in a guy like that. Like everything is a quick decision. You know what the deal with the consequences later if it was wrong. It's like, yeah.

That's what I'm gonna say. That's the question I was gonna ask. Do you think, because you can make the argument that pondering a decision improves your odds of making the right decision, but does that percentage improvement, could you make up for it with the speed? Because then you can read it.

My theory on this is that pondering translates better to wisdom, speed translates better to success in production. Or maybe just getting to wisdom. Maybe you just make fast decisions. You know what I'm saying? There are two different ways to get to wisdom. They both get wisdom, but this, the person who just makes decisions gets it through a lot of failures and

we're getting reps. The wisdom ponderer mental reps. Yeah. The ponders is there, meditates, thinks about, like plays it out in his mind. Like, and that can also get to wisdom too. But the, the one who just goes in and takes action is I'm always trying to be better at that in my get to wisdom too, but the one who just goes and takes action is, I'm always trying to be better at that in my life of just like, and you probably feel that energy from me sometimes where I'm just very direct. It's like, that's an attribute that I'm aware of that makes very, very successful founders. Is that ability? No, this is what we're doing. Like let's just go. Let's just go. You know what I'm saying?

And I'll deal with the consequences if I'm wrong. Like I've already, I'm already playing it out five steps ahead. What does Doug call it? Ready, shoot, aim. Yeah. Ready, shoot, aim. I mean, it's a lot of what I think connected all of us. We have, we do have a bit of that attribute to get together of just go, but it is something that some of your,

your most famous founders, successful CEOs have is they, just the speed at which they make decisions. They don't fuck around everything from eating to whatever. It's just like, just there. I'll do this. You know what I'm saying? Interesting.

And then when you think about that, that compounds. I mean, if you're shaving three minutes between the 20 decisions you had to make today. You know what's funny is I wonder how valuable, it's probably so valuable when you're younger if you're driven. In other words, like, okay, I know what I want to accomplish, in other words, I'm not waffling, I want to be successful at this one thing. When you're young and you have less,

the consequences are less painful, you don't have a family to support, doesn't matter if I fail a million times because I'm living at my mom's house or whatever, it probably makes sense to be fast. Totally. Because you're just gonna learn faster that way. You know, and if you fail so what? I do that same start and then you work your way to it.

I mean, I feel like that's how I'll be parenting my son when we get there when he's interested in something. I'll definitely be like pushed, go, go do it. You think you can do it? Go, go do it. And then when he fails, like okay, maybe it's not for you or cool, on to the next thing. Or whatever, or get back up, let's try it again.

I definitely will encourage that. I don't have a lot of patience for the waffling. when he fails, like okay, maybe it's not for you, or cool, on to the next thing, or whatever, or get back up, let's try it again. I definitely will encourage that. I don't have a lot of patience for the waffling. Like, oh, should I, I don't know what I wanna do. It's like, well, the reason why you don't know what you wanna do is you're not doing shit. You'll do some shit and find out what you like and you don't like.

Did I ever tell you, there was a buddy of mine that wanted to start a business with me, and he wrote a business plan, and he was forever, and he told me all the reasons and the numbers and why we can and we shouldn't, and I'm like, I'm doing this, but I'm not doing this with you, I'm doing it my own. And it's like paralysis by analysis. Yes, I have a family member that I mentor,

like business-wise, trying to help him out. He's a serial entrepreneur type of mindset, but it drives me crazy on how long he deliberates over things like that. I'm just like, bro, go do that thing. And he's always looking at it like, oh, that's beneath me, or why would I do that? I'm just like, bro, go.

Because I can't tell you how many times just taking action led to something I would have never thought would happen. You know, it's like, versus you like analyzing, well that's not really worth my time and I'm only gonna get paid this and how's that really, it's like, bro, what are you doing right now?

You're just sitting here arguing with me, you could be working, making some sort of money and that could lead to a relationship, that relationship could lead to this thing and it's like, I don't even know, but go, go. Like it drives me crazy to do that, you know? No, I agree with that. I got some interesting information on creatine in women.

It may be, and I'll pull it up right here, it may be more important, I've argued this before, but it's probably more important for women to supplement with creatine than even men. Women have 20 to 30% lower natural creatine production and intake, leading to reduced stores, which means it's far, it's probably even more important for women to take. This is why when you look at the mood lifting anti-depression effects of creatine, it's strongest in women and it's strongest in the

subcategory of postpartum and menopause. So women, after you have a baby, or when you're in menopause, creatine is, because you're not making enough of it. Now what do you mean by, due to the stores, does that mean they down regulate the ability to store because they're not intaking very much? Because they don't produce as much creatine, they have less stored in their body. They just have less

creatine in their body. Just in general. Just in general. So the truth, well, because the dosage has always been dependent on the size of the muscle mass. No, no. That's how we've done it. That's how we've done it historically. You're right, you're right, but what these studies are doing, they're controlling for

that. So there is an amount of creatine a man will produce to his muscle. Yeah. There's an amount of woman will produce to muscle. Hers is still lower as a ratio. So is it safe to say that there's a chance that you may actually want to take more as a woman than even a man? No, no, no, no.

Five to 15 grams is what, five grams for muscle, upwards 15 to 20 for brain. 15 to 20 for brain. 15, 20 for brain. 15 and 20 for brain. Yeah, 15 to 20 for brain. Unless you were abnormally large, muscular. It's so crazy to me because the female demographic is the last demographic to adopt taking creatine because of the fear of, oh, I'm going to hold water, I'm going to gain weight.

It's the best possible supplement a woman can take, especially for women, is to take creatine. And it's starting to blow up, you're starting to see it. And now there's, by the way, you guys, the data on creatine and dementia, we are, we're not that far away from this being a, like this is part of your therapy when you are in cognitive decline.

We're gonna put you on creatine, monohydrate. I mean, I hope they do. What I'm interested to see, because we continue to see these studies that are starting to show more and more and higher doses cognitive benefits like what happens if you like mega dose for a while with someone like that with a big area I mean yeah but what if you make a dose and spread it out like well 20 grams is a mega dose and that's what they're

showing for brain health yeah so that's you know that you would have to take 5 grams four times a day you don't want to take 20 grams all at once. I've done that. It's not, it's not cool. Uh, but five grams or three grams at a time spread out throughout the day. Uh, amazing for, for brain function performance health. So pretty, and what'd you say it was psyllium husk that was for like the microplastics kind of address that. Yeah. Take that with your meals. Yeah. That combo and creatine. I know I'm like always like, okay, all these things. I swear part of address that. Yeah, take that with your meals. Yeah, that combo and creatine. I know, I'm like always like, okay, all these things. Dude, I swear.

Part of my protocol now. Because of my supplement addiction, there's a lot of bad things that I've done. Some good stuff. There's some accidental good things. Yeah, you're on the Cilium and creatine for a long time, dude. I've been taking creatine nonstop since I was 16,

back when they said that it would hurt your kidneys, and I didn't care, because I was a kid, I wanted to get muscles. Now it's like, oh cool, I've been doing this healthy thing. And then psyllium husk, I've been taking that for gut health issues for 15 years maybe. And so it probably has been helping me get rid of microplastics out of my body,

which is pretty good. I'm interested. Yeah, pretty cool. All right, I wanted to talk about, so we're supposed to mention rock recovery, and I gotta bring something up to people Who may have a family member or friend or maybe themselves are struggling with addiction When I'm looking up the data on addiction one of the worst possible things is when you keep it to yourself or you keep it

You don't let bring it out into the light. Yeah addiction flourishes Dysfunction flourishes in the dark. Our friends at Rock Recovery give away a scholarship where if you win, you get, I forget, how much, four months treatment with them, I believe, Doug? But they'll call and help everybody. So no matter who you are, you get in the help point you in the right direction.

But at the very least, I could see just talking about it with one of those guys. We've been getting so much feedback from even people that didn't win the scholarship just the the team over there has been very supportive of everybody. So if you know even if you don't at least try to win right and even if you don't win they've been great pointing people in the right direction or getting them help regardless if they win the scholarship. I love them. Yeah. All right cool study on psilocybin and depression So I don't think this pharmaceutical industry is gonna like this but a study came out that show this is in 2025

phase 2 trial a single dose of psilocybin Gives long-term relief from symptoms of depression anxiety. Do you want to know how long it lasted for? I thought it was permanent. No. Well, this study was done for two years, so I don't know how much longer. Yeah, I thought we've seen studies at like PTSD stuff where they do one treatment and then it's gone away.

Well, this study was done for this long and that's how long they showed you. So who knows if they stretch it out longer. By the way, this was done in cancer patients. So the reason why they were able to get this treatment, although in some states you can get psilocybin treatment. I know you can here in California, you can actually hire, I believe, a therapist and they'll use psilocybin in their therapy. But this was cancer patients. So these are people who are like, you know, in your terminal,

like depression is a big, big problem. Sure. And they did psilocybin with a therapist and after one treatment had relief for two years. Like that's not a money maker for the pharma industry. At all. That's profound. Yeah.

I mean, we've talked about this for quite some time on the podcast. I really hope that in the near future, we see it used more regularly on the therapeutic side. I've had nothing but positive myself personally when Katrina and I have used it. I've had family members that have used it. I've had friends.

And everybody I know that, when you do it with the right intent, right, this is not. You gotta be careful. This isn't getting high with your buddies on the weekend, like going to a rave or a concert. You gotta be careful because if you're not with a licensed therapist and you're not doing it right, right dose, you can actually make things far worse.

You can get PTSD from psilocybin. Or you can unlock things that- Psychosis or something. Yes, or psychosis. So very important you do this with a professional. Because I know somebody, I know somebody that read these studies, decided she was gonna do it on her own, and she ended up getting PTSD from the actual experience.

Yeah, but it went too hard, too fast. Yeah, exactly. No, totally. All right, I got a controversial topic for you guys on parenting. Let's hear it. I know you wanted me to bring some of these. I like this stuff.

I found another one. Let's hear it. Spanking for children. Ooh, spanking. Julie beat our kids. Spanking for children is, I can tell you what the data shows. No, I don't want to hear that.

I want to hear everyone's opinion first. Then you can make your data. I'll tell you my opinion. I do not like spanking. I think you can be effective. You can be totally effective without ever having to inflict physical pain or that kind of fear.

It's not the same as respect. With my older kids, I know exactly how many times I spanked them because I did not like it. I spanked my son once on his hands and my daughter once on her hands and I saw the look on their face and I remember thinking like, what am I doing? I'm a giant and I'm physically imposing myself on this little kid as a punishment. I think there's other ways you could raise your kids. Now that being said, my culture, my mom threw shoes at us. They raised nine kids when my mom was a kid. They were poor. So I could see how mom was using the fast method

of getting obedience maybe. But yeah, I'm opposed, I'm opposed to spanking. So I have a really interesting feeling around it because I'm pro. Have you ever spanked Matt? That's the crazy part. Six years and I never have. What would make you spank him?

What would you need to do to spank him? So he would need to do something that I'm trying to interrupt it so fast That like either it's dangerous or really bad in the moment. Yeah in oh, yeah I would never be the dad of like you're when I get home from work. I'm gonna whoop your ass You know I'm saying like it wouldn't be like that It would be like I see him doing something like if I saw him getting ready to hit a kid over the head with something that would really hurt a kid, or actually hurt a kid like that, I would walk over and whack the shit out of him.

No, you do not do that. You would? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. But- You haven't experienced it yet, dude. Well, here's the thing. What I say that, but then yet I never have.

Now what I have found is because in my household, we've been so consistent with the way we talk even around it. Like, Max doesn't hear a raised voice, bro. So I bring up one octave and that kid freezes. So I bet if he was about to hit a kid with something and I actually yelled, holy shit, I guarantee he would drop and stop in his tracks because he's never heard or seen that for me. So even though I'm not against spanking for those reasons and in a situation like that,

I have to admit that I'm six years in and I've never had to do it. And so I don't want to, I'm not looking to do it, but I also wouldn't hesitate if I thought it was necessary in the moment to interrupt that pattern to correct really bad behavior. I just, my son has been so well behaved and even in the moments of misbehaving, I've been able to stop it in its tracks with my voice. So, yeah, so I guess it's like, I wrestle with it

because I haven't had to do it, but yet I'm a guy who would have, if you would have asked me before my son, hey, are you gonna spank your kid if he does something, I would have said yeah. I can think of a scenario for me where I would get physical, but it wouldn't be when they were little. It would be, I'm gonna create a fake scenario. My son is 15, he's big, he's feeling, you know,

strong in his britches and he gets super aggressive with his mom maybe. Because you'll see this sometimes with teenage boys when their testosterone is high and they're yelling at mom and they're getting physical. I may show them what time it is, I might grab them and put them down, hold them down and say, I'm the big dog in the house, to show him. But other than that, I don't know, I don't know. What do you think, Justin? Yeah, I think my views changed a bit over the years with this

and I came from a house that was very, very pro spanking. Yeah, so was I. To the point where you had like wooden spoons and everything else in the house that was used on me. And it was difficult because I was a fighter and so I knew that that was the punishment and so I went right to test the degree of where they would go with that.

So, you know, it was kind of like, like super dysfunctional and I didn't think that it was handled well with me. And so initially, early on, I think correcting things was important to me when it was egregious. So let's say, for instance, my son, I don't even remember what the instance was,

but it was egregious. It was where he spit in Courtney's face, uh, deliberately and like made them like, no, it was like fighting it and then, you know, and then, uh, but when I did practice before I spanked was he had to go to his room and think about what he did. He had to tell me what he did first. And then I had to tell him why I'm doing it, and this is a consequence of what you just did up there. And so there's a lot of communication beforehand,

and the spank is not even violent. The spank is like a tap. Yeah. So I think that he- Very different from the spankings we got. Yes, it's not, so it's not like I heard him. I don't feel any remorse over either. I don't Because it did correct him. It did like shake him out of his

Self-centered like repeated patterns. Yeah So I don't I don't know how many times have you spanked your kids? Was it just me it's like maybe three times total of like between the two that is like one and then two I I feel like if you spanked your kid in their whole life and their teenagers by now two or three times your anti spanking Parents who are pro spanking. Oh, yeah, it's like five a week. Well, I was yeah what they use I was gonna say that then yeah. Yeah, I was spanked. I was saying it with Justin I was yeah, every week and spatulas like that was like the number one thing. Yeah, we had a thing that hung on the wall that was for that, right?

And, but now the interesting thing about that, although I do, my one traumatic childhood thing that I have is a time, but my mom lost it on me as a kid. Like, so like all the other times I got spanked, I'd actually prefer the spanking over the grounding to the room Yeah, so if I had it if I my mom came in it was just like yeah fucked up

You didn't hurt me or you get the spoon or you're in your room all day long back. Give me the fucking spoon You know I turn right around like I'll take the ass whooping The only time that I have trauma from it is my mom literally lost her shit on me one time and just like beat the shit Out of me like it was not like a spanking. It was like a parent losing her shit and out of control, which that is crazy to me. And that's different. That's beating a kid. That's not spanking a kid. Spanking used to interrupt a pattern to me. And Jordan Peterson talks about this in 12 Rules of Life in the chapter six. And I think that he communicates it really well on the power and the value of life in the chapter six. And I think that he communicates it really well on the power and the value of it

and like kind of his point of view on it. And I think I adopt that philosophy. Now, I'm gonna do my best to go 18 years and not have to. So I'm not looking to spank my kids. It's so funny, we're all anti-spanking based off of this. So the people who use corporal punishment and are like, yes, I'm pro it average about 18 spankings per week, 18 a week with their kids. Whoa. Yeah. With their kids.

Cause this is what they use. This is what they use as part. This is how they, they get their kids anywhere in life. You can remember that a few times. I can't even think of my kid doing some 18 times that would even, you know, they're not communicating with them. I remember the two times I ever did in my entire life. And you know they're not communicating with them. They're just whapping. I remember the two times I ever did in my entire life. And so, Doug, have you ever spanked Bree?

I slapped her on the hand one time. And you know, I grew up, spanking was normalized. I got spanked a few times. Teachers would have paddles, wooden paddles, in their rooms prominently displayed as a threat. And so I grew up thinking, well, that's what you do is you just spank kids when they're bad. And then I slapped Bree's hand and at that point, it just didn't feel good for me.

Terrible. I mean, it didn't feel good for her either, but you know, I felt horrible. Like, what am I doing? I'm striking this little girl and how is violence going to help solve this? I can't imagine it on Max right now. It just seems unfathomable to me. We're only six years in, so maybe when he's nine, 10, maybe when he becomes a little shit.

I think there's gonna be a point, especially with young men when they're teenagers, where they start to feel themselves, and they're trying to be the big lion, where you need to maybe check them a little bit. I don't think you're gonna beat them, but there's a little bit of that like. I think we get a lot of that out

by just wrestling with them. Yeah, that's true. And I've been doing that, because that is coming, and I feel that energy. And there's a lot of testing. And so yeah, I'm all for, I encourage it, but I know I have to do that, otherwise it'll keep building up

and turn into something real violent. Yeah, I think doing that too is a way of you state, like I think kids that, again, this is me speculating because I'm not anywhere near there, is I think when you start to lose that connection and that relationship with that kid, this is where this, this is where you kind of, you get disconnected a little bit. Whereas if your kids always feeling you and feeling your energy and knows you, I don't I don't know if you need to Like I don't feel like yeah Like my son is gonna feel like my physical presence when I wrestle with them like like so I don't see him challenging that cuz I'm

Gonna remind him all the way up In a fun way right a playful way. I feel that energy You can have to bark at him now, you know true. I had to raise my voice to my my teenage daughter, but only because I never do, and I think she got to a place where she mistook my kindness for weakness. And so when she saw that in me, I think she was like, oh, okay, dad, means it. But spanking and hitting it, I was like, I can't. That's where I think that if you've been consistent, I mean, that's why it's so powerful.

See, I grew up in a crazy, chaotic, loud, screaming. So hearing your mom scream at you doesn't interrupt the pattern enough. Because she's constantly screaming at her husband. There's like, it's like. So you gotta throw something else at her. So that she had to level it up. That's a good point.

And so that was to interrupt the pattern, where I think in my house, it's so, I interrupted the pattern from Max is looking at him hard. If I give him a look, the kid starts crying, and I'm like, calm down, dude, you upset daddy, but I'm not that bad. But I mean, that's how consistent we're. That's a good point.

So it doesn't take much to interrupt that pattern. Yeah, if you grow up in a violent type of atmosphere, how do you level that up? Exactly. If your kids hear you, and even if you're not in a, obviously mine was another level, but even if you're at a, I have friends that aren't nowhere near the level that I grew up in,

but they yell at each other in front of their kids. And your kids see you yelling at each other, so of course they yell and act out all the time because they think that's normal communication. So then if they do something really bad, it's even more egregious and you have to go to the next level to show them that this isn't just a normal day.

On normal days we yell and fight, but it's like now I gotta really interrupt that pattern. Whereas if you don't ever do that, just a simple raising the tone or the way I say something is like oh shit, that ain't normal. Yeah, I think in these studies when they look at spanking, they're looking at people that this is what they use regularly. Not like, oh, I spanked my kids once in their life, but rather this is one of the tools

that I use to raise my children. The meta-analysis on this is not good. It is not good. I mean, a meta-analysis of 75 studies involving 160,000 children found that spanking was linked to increased aggression, antisocial behavior, and defiance, the exact opposite of the things that you're trying to correct. It also was associated with worse social-emotional development. It's linked to anxiety, depression, and substance abuse, and it also erodes trust and worsens relationships between children and their parents.

They also showed that spanking was linked to lower inhibitory control and cognitive flexibility. In other words, it made them more impulsive as well. So it's just not a great option. Now the question is why did it exist for so long? I'll tell you why. I know because my parents, my dad was so poor growing up that he had to start working to give money to his mom by the age of nine.

So in other words, he had to not go to school. So I don't know what grade are you at nine years old. Stopped going to school because they didn't have enough money. Had to go work and wouldn't bring his mom the little bit of money that he made. She was trying to raise six kids and they didn't have you know microwaves or dishwasher. They didn't have a phone. In fact, he grew up with a bathroom that was outside the house, like an outhouse almost, until he got a little older. My grandfather worked all the time and so you're raising this, you're in this insanity and you're like, I don't got time to sit down

and talk to you, you gotta listen to me right now because, and so I could see how that was. Also probably six kids in a house that was probably loud and chaotic too. Yeah. So you have to, I really think a lot. And in society was like. I really think that a kid's brain,

if there's a lot of chaos in the house, and again, chaos doesn't have to be like abuse and horrible, just loud and just fighting and yelling, if that's normal, then to interrupt that pattern as a parent, you have to kind of take it to another level. And so depending on where you can keep your level in your house really can dictate, I think, the difference here. Well, one of the things that this addresses is this myth that when people see adolescents or teenagers acting crazy, their instinct is to be like, well, their momma need to beat their ass more,

or they're not getting enough spankings at home. That's not what happened. What happened was they probably didn't have a dad, and they probably didn't have a good relationship with their parents for whatever reason, and that's what led to it. Not the lack of spanking. No, it's a lack of love. Yeah.

I mean, that's why I teach Max. I teach Max. That's what creates. But just it feels so weird. Like I said, like the two times I hit my kids on the hand, I just was like, what am I doing? I mean, I get it because the thought of hitting Max just tears me up because I know how he is to react to things right

now. I can't imagine. No. Yeah, I would traumatize that kid where he to things right now. Like I can't imagine. No. Yeah. I would, I would traumatize that kid where he's at right now. But again, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, if I felt like I needed to, I'm not opposed it. If I felt like if he did something crazy to his mom,

that was just so out of line and in the moment, like, yeah, I know you bet your ass I would, I would lay the law, but it's like, I don't think, I hope I don't need to. I hope I can. I can think of extreme examples You know I have a I have a family friend whose 15 year old was Doing drugs and he found him with his dealer and dad's like get in the car He's like you can't tell me what to do so dad

Physically yeah wrestled his ass in the car mom took off. Yeah, I would do the same well I remember I told so this wasn't a physical thing, but the first time I ever, I'll never forget, I remember the first time I even raised my voice to Max, and I was vacuuming the living room. He was probably three at this time, three or four he was, and I'm vacuuming upstairs, and I turn around and he's getting ready

to stick something in the plug. Oh. And I yelled at him, and he froze and started crying and this and that. I went, Oh wow. Like that. But I mean, I don't regret it. Yeah. I needed to interrupt that pattern right there.

Save the kids damn life. Right. And so I think of it like that. It's like, there's something in the moment. If you're going to hit a kid with a bat over the head or do something really harmful or something like that, like whack. Yeah. I, hell yeah.

I would whack him to interrupt that pattern and be like, hey, you don't do that. So I mean, to me, there are examples where I don't think I would hesitate if I felt anything, although I'm gonna try my best to avoid that. In six years now, I haven't had to, so, but who knows? We'll see what the teenage years bring. By the way, spanking, Doug, the paddling of children, did you know that they think that that may be

why some people find that sexually arousing? Yeah, it's an inference. You had boys going through puberty, adolescence, and then they'd have the female nuns or teachers whack them on the butt. I've heard you say that before, but that's still popular, and that's been gone for a long time.

Like that's popular with someone who's 20 right now. Like guarantees some 20 years. Well they think that's maybe where it starts. I mean you're right, you're right. Yeah, yeah, like it definitely stayed around. Even after that, even there was spankings. Well now it's a whole different problem. Pornography that makes everything seem normal, so.

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Try it for yourself for free for 30 days. Try it out, listen for five to 10 minutes. It'll blow your mind. Go to brain.fm forward slash mind pump 30 days for free. Back to the show. Our first caller is Jen from the UK. Hello Jen. Morning. Hi, how are you doing? Good. How are you? Good. Good afternoon there. Who knows? Good. I'm so excited to be speaking to you guys. I can't believe it. I started listening to your podcast two or three months ago and it's just been so, so helpful.

So thank you. Awesome. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, wonderful. How can we help you? So I did go right into my question. Is that, just read out how I wrote it? Yes.

Perfect. So I started strength training about just under a year ago now. And I was working with a PT or a coach as you guys would say. I was really consistent with it. I had done a wee bit of weights before but then like just under a year ago I started being really consistent. I was doing four days a week. I was doing like an upper lower body split. I did a bit of a like a cut if you like, a calorie deficit at the end of last year,

and was quite successful in shifting a bit of body fat. Didn't have a huge amount of muscle at that point, but it was a good starting place. Reverse dieted at the beginning of this year, which again, I felt went really well. I got quite up to a decent maintenance calories and then tried to go into a bit of a surplus. This was all kind of working with my coach and then basically I did too much. I was added an extra session. I can see that I you know after listening to you guys in the podcast and you know I've definitely just added an extra session and it was too much and about three weeks into that got some tennis elbow and some right shoulder pain. So that was just an absolute disaster. I kind of had a pause for like a few weeks.

I stopped working with the coach just temporarily because I just felt there was no point. I started seeing a physio so I've been kind of working on my arm. It's still there, it's still a problem but it's getting better. I am now at the point where I'm doing actually I'm halfway through MAPS Anabolic now so I'm just doing two or three I kind of alternate two or three full body workouts a week and I'm just managing the arm I'm just kind of trying to keep the weights a wee bit lower on the things that I know are gonna aggravate it and yeah I feel like that's kind of

going okay so I'm pleased with that and And I really like my apps anabolic. I've had to sub out a few things, but on the whole I'm kind of sticking with it. My question is that my goal is absolutely to build muscle. It always was from when I started. Obviously the arm is a problem and I'm not able to lift as heavy as I could or as I was. But where, so I'm, my calories at the moment are reasonably

high but they're pretty much maintenance I think, I'm not really gaining much weight. Because of the arm and there's obviously a bit of inflammation and stuff, where, where can I put the calories to? Can I go into like a bulk or a building phase with the arm like this or am I best just kind of sticking with what I'm doing and not expecting kind of to build too much at the moment? What would you suggest? Well, so this is a programming situation. So when you're feeling pain, typically where I'll look,

unless a person's like overstressed, terrible sleep, too low calories, those can also contribute. But typically it's a programming issue. Maps anabolic is fine from a volume perspective, but it's a lot of bilateral exercise and the problem with bilateral exercise when one side hurts is it can actually slow down the progress of healing. Okay. So a unilateral based program would be beneficial for you and I would use the side that hurts as the gauge

for the weight and the reps for the other side. And that will allow the recovery to happen a bit faster. So will being in a surplus. Yeah, as I say, with that being said, adding calories too would be the ultimate. So we definitely can build muscle. I just think I would switch her over to symmetry, bump calories by 250, 300 and

you should be doing pretty good. Yep, yep, that's it. Here's the thing, it doesn't really hurt when I'm lifting, it's more like the day after, I can't gauge it by that. So it's difficult to know whether I'm doing too much at the time, if you see what I mean. No, I do. It's not a matter of too, so it's not because you're doing too much weight per se, it's that because it's, you're moving in balance, right?

So like, let's just say when you do a shoulder press with a barbell, it doesn't hurt because it doesn't hurt because there's not like any direct acute pain. There's a weakness and instability there. But what's happening is it's not moving properly, and so then what you end up feeling later is like tightness and chronic pain. And it's hard to see bilateral

because the other arm is doing more, a little bit more. It's compensating. You'll feel it a lot more when you, when you parse it out and you go through that process of, of right to left and, and kind of see the differences with that. Yeah. So, so really, you know, what symmetry will do is really help

you hone in on the movement patterns, uh, that are, uh, not beneficial and the ones that are beneficial. That's what you'll notice as you go through the program. And the first two weeks of it I think are so great for what's happening with you because the first two weeks is isometrics. So you'll be doing a lot of isometrics the first two weeks which is gonna set you up perfectly moving forward. And if you feel great towards the last phase then you get back into bilateral training. So I love to give you symmetry. And then also I'd love to put you in the form because anytime we have people talking

about like potential movement issues or imbalances, it always helps too. If we could see like we're, I think, I think we're onto what's going on and we're troubleshooting pretty well, uh, but would also really help too, is if we saw the movement. So, um, I think putting you over to symmetry, putting you on a surplus, and then if you still find that it's bothering you and you video you doing like a movement, like a shoulder, we can get deeper into

what's going on with the movement patterns and even recommend like what kind of corrective work I'd have you do. Okay, cool, perfect. So just so I'm clear, I can, I could bump up the calories a bit. Yes. Just there, I could still potentially, perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect. So just so I'm clear, I can, I could bump up the calories a bit, just so I know I could still potentially perfect. Yeah, absolutely.

And you would, about 250, 300 would be a good starting place. Absolutely. Yep. Where are you at right now? What are your calories at? Just out of curiosity. Um, so two, four on non-training days, two,

six-ish on training days. I've been, because it's been a bit of a bulk, I'm, I'm real more, I do track everything, but I'm being more relaxed with it. So yeah, my maintenance seems to be around two, three, I think two, four. So that's great. That's a good number. I think the reverse diet was really effective. It was, yeah, it worked pretty well.

So I'm really pleased with being at that. I just don't want it to go backwards, you know, with the arms. So yeah, no, no, no, no. I go up in calories, follow symmetry and start it right away. And I think a little bit of a, like a, like mental, if I was training you as a client, the mentality I'd want you to go into this program is we're, we're trying to work on this shoulder imbalance. And so, uh, I, I'm not going to push, really push you like hard on the weight, meaning like, I really care to perfect the movement and how your shoulders moving and articulating and like, I'm really focused on that.

And then when we're hitting legs, I'm getting after you. Like, so I know you're in a surplus. I know you can afford to be pushed a little bit. And so I'm really going to challenge you to, you know, go get strong in your, in your Bulgarian split squats and these movements that we have in there, really push you there. And then when we get to like shoulder press, bench press, movements like that. Slow, steady, perfect form.

Slow, steady, perfect form, trying to mirror each side to look exactly the same and like, I'm going to be coaching you like that. And then hopefully through that, we balance out that side a little bit. And you also see some gains overall muscle on the body. And was it the elbow or the shoulder that hurt first? I had a long standing kind of shoulder weakness, but it wasn't bothering me at all. But I knew about it.

It's, you know, had bothered me in the past. And then the elbow was the first bit that kicked off, but very quickly the shoulder kind of started to ache and actually all kind of down my neck and sides can be quite stiff. So it was silly, it was stupid. Well, no, symmetry is perfect. If you've had a long standing kind of imbalance

on that one side will really help correct it. How many days a week is symmetry? Can you just, can you do that like two? I've been alternating two and three. Could I do it like that? I believe, Doug, pull it up for me. If I'm not mistaken, is it a four day program? Okay.

We're going to find out for you. You can't do any other thing. Because I was also going to ask what I've been doing in addition to the strength training, like the two or three full bodies, I've been doing a Pilates type yoga thing and obviously my physio stretches. So I was gonna ask what on top,

but presumably symmetry would cover all bases then. All bases, you can continue doing the physio stretches. I think that's great. I don't think you should do. Pilates. Yeah, Pilates. Instead of Pilates, I'd love like a deep tissue massage. Yeah. I would love stuff like that. Pay attention when you're going through the isometrics, like with your pain, how much it actually like absolves a lot of the pain. And then you want to take that type of a controlled tension into then the next phase. So when you're going through those, they're talking about perfecting and the mechanics

of it slowing down. You can actually like provide some of that, you make the weight kind of heavier by adding more intrinsic tension like you would. And that way too, now you're sending a signal that you're more secure, that you have more support around your joints and around your shoulder. And that's really what we need to do is solidify that signal again. Symmetry is three days a week so it should work. Plus two mobility aids. You get mobility in there. Yeah you got everything you need in there.

Perfect, perfect, amazing. And for just for all the listeners too so you guys know like we recently addressed this like with clients that like oh you know it's better for me to only go two days a week and it's a three day a week program. You can just continue to follow it. The workouts in consecutive order, even if it doesn't land in a perfect seven day week, right? So maybe it takes you eight days or nine days. One and two in one week. Then you start the next week with workout three and

then one. Yeah. Yeah, that's perfect because I work shifts. So sometimes I have to have like three days where I don't do anything. Then I've been trying really trying hard to not just have no, obviously not no rest days, but I've been trying to have two rest days in between just to kind of make sure recovery is there. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's great. So follow just like that. So if it ends up you having that, it doesn't work in a perfect seven day week, not a problem. Just keep following

the program the way it's laid out. Yep. Yep. Okay. Super. Can I ask one last wee question? Yeah. Just because it's my one bug bear, I think. And the thing that I think I don't like, my nutrition's great, my sleep and stress and all that. So I think I'm ticking all the boxes there, but I'm not very good at drinking enough fluids in a day. How important is that? Extremely.

Yeah, especially with like the- Especially with pain. Chronic pain and stuff. Oh my God, that makes a huge difference with pain. Yeah, that'll help. Yes, so definitely do it. You know, and the way I always recommend it with my clients, I mean, if carrying a whole gallon is crazy,

then try like a half or a quarter. But I like my clients to see what it looks like towards a gallon. I like them to just carry it and then look and see, like, man, how low am I drinking? So they have a visual target every day. So my recommendation would be something like that. So you can, you can slowly improve it. Now,

Jen, I'm assuming you eat a pretty much whole food diet. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's pretty good. Yeah. Add a little tiny bit of like some salt to your water or electrolytes when you're drinking that much water. Okay. Right. Okay. So when we talk about water, what like three, four liters a day is ideal? How much is a gallon, Doug? Almost four liters. So three is a good start?

Yep. Okay. Yeah. I mean really, I would always give a client, I'd say like the goal is to eventually get to a gallon. I realize you're not there right now, so I'm not asking you tomorrow to get there, but like just pay attention to that, right?

And see how close you're getting to a gallon every day. And that's the pain reduces just from that, by the way. That's right. Yeah. Right. Okay. Okay. That's super helpful.

Yep. Yep. You'll do huge. Perfect. All right. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. All right, Jay.

Cheers. Take care. You know, for people listening, when it comes to dysfunction, here's the, the chain of events that tends to happen. You have a little bit of an instability or imbalance, to use a different word. Your body moves suboptimally over time that suboptimal movement results in some pain.

That pain, if you ignore it or you kind of keep pushing through it, eventually leads to other pain as the rest of the body starts to move in ways that are suboptimal. So it's actually quite common to have shoulder pain that leaves the tennis elbow or vice versa, or wrist pain that leaves the shoulder pain or whatever. So this tends to happen pretty predictably when

an issue isn't corrected. And even if you're 2% optimal, if you work out enough and hard enough, over time, it's likely that that'll start to turn into pain. And the reason why moving away from bilateral stuff is, if you have weakness, when you have stuff, chronic pain or imbalance, that there's weakness and instability. And what happens when you do bilateral or both hands, both feet together is the other side compensates. And so it's hard to see or fix because to the average eye or, or lifter,

it looks like the bar is moving fine. And everything's okay because the other side's do that's how great the body is. The body's so good at compensating to keep that bar path moving normal. But what's happening is there is a discrepancy there and we're not going to see it until we start to separate the sides. Our next caller is Micah from Alabama. Micah, what's happening? Hi, how you guys doing? Pleasure to be back on the show.

I was actually on here four years ago when my first son was born. So, in a little bit. You got another kid, huh? Yes, sir. I've actually had a second one since then. So I've been following, so I'll lead at this point. Good for you. How can we help you? All right. So I'll go ahead and read off my question. So my, the main gist of my question is can or should you mix the workout outs from

different phases of a maps program based on the setting and time you have to work out for that week? So a little bit of background. Um, 37 years old. I work full time as a, as a PT and as a health coach at the VA here in Birmingham. And I also work part time as a coach at kid strong here in Birmingham. And my wife is also working full time as a research doctor. And she's currently in the process of studying for her board exams for a second board exam. And on top of that, we have a two and a four year old. So as you can imagine, life's pretty busy right now. So what ends up happening a lot with me is I have three different settings

in which I can work out in. I have my normal box gym. I have my PT gym that I can work out in on my lunch breaks when patients are not there which basically has cable machines and some light kettlebells and dumbbells and Also when the weather is right I can work out out outside with some 25 pound dumbbells I have and also a suspension trainer and I find myself in this conundrum when I'm trying to run a program that a lot of Times the phase I'm in and the workouts I need to do don't match the setting in which I can work out that day.

Love this. So for instance whenever I'm running let's say a performance I'm when I'm running phase one that's basically a lot of heavy lifting a lot of barbell work that requires me to be at my box gym a lot. Unfortunately, sometimes life happens and that doesn't allow me. And I find myself either working out outside or working out at my PT gym. And a workout from say, phase two of that program tends to work a lot better in that setting than say phase one, where I'm trying to do a lot of heavy lifting, then on the flip side, I might have a week where I have some time off and I have plenty of time to go to the gym. But I might be in phase two, but since I have

that access to the gym, I want to go back to phase one and do some more of that heavy lifting at that point. So I guess my question is, I find myself in this situation a lot. So what are the drawbacks of doing it this way and am I losing anything by doing this? I love this question. You're doing fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Here's the person that I would caution from doing that if somebody with no experience Who doesn't understand? Strength training or their body and what they tend to do is combine things in ways to improve increase the intensity And what they tend to do is combine things in ways to improve increase the intensity and appropriately or whatever or they bounce around Because of boredom and excuses not because you're a PT. Yeah, you run you work in gyms. You have a pretty good understanding

You're the perfect person to do this absolutely and your circumstances call for it. Yeah, what are the drawbacks? Well for for someone else a drawback might be if you bounce around from phase to phase You're in phase, you're in the wrong mindset, you don't know how a phase affects you, your intensity is inappropriate or whatever. You're fine. You're totally fine. What you're doing is exactly what I would tell you to do.

Well, you could also make the argument, like if, let's say you were trying to be a power lifter and you're like, or you've going to meet coming up and it's very specific. Yeah. Like you have very specific goals or a timeframe you're trying to lean out. I mean, it's, it's not the most ideal way to work out for the ultimate fastest, most results in a row. I mean, it's, we, we write them to follow them laid out, but for overall health building muscle, I mean, you're doing the right, you're doing it how I would do it. I mean, I follow them laid out, but for overall health, building muscle, I mean, you're doing the right, you're doing it how I would do it. I mean, and let's, to be honest with you,

this is, this is personally how I train. I mean, we've got the studio here that has certain equipment. I have my at home stuff that has certain amount of equipment. And then I have a gym that I actually go to and they all provide different stuff that I can do. And so I kind of, when I'm at one place, I train a certain way.

When I'm at another place, I train a different way. I know it's not ideal for like the, if I was bodybuilding competing, I wouldn't be training that way. If I was like, hey, I gotta get on stage in eight weeks, I gotta make the most change. Like, I'm gonna make the sacrifice. I'm gonna find a way to get to my,

you know what I'm saying? So it's like, when I have a timeframe, I have very specific goals. Well, yeah, there's a- The programming gets more specific. Yeah, yeah, there's a program it gets more specific Yeah, there's bet there's better ways to do it But man for just overall being strong fit feeling good looking good like you're doing the right you're doing it the right way. It's perfect Yeah, it's totally perfect

Awesome. So what I usually end up doing is instead of looking at it as okay three weeks of a certain phase I look at it as if it's for instance we're running performance, it's three workouts per week. So I look at it as nine workouts. So if I, so I end up in a position, okay, I can't, can't go there. I, instead of looking at it as, okay, I can't do that during this week, I subtract that from the nine. I'm supposed to be doing tack it on. Basically end up doing it to where I still do the same amount of workouts for each phase, it's just mixed up a little bit more throughout the phase.

Here's where somebody would make a mistake. Here's where someone might make a mistake. I really love training my arms. So they end up picking arm workouts every time they have an opportunity to work out, whether it's at home or, you're a PT, you understand balance, I don't think you're doing that. I mean, you're doing it even more methodical than I would.

I mean, I would just, the way it looked for me is like oh when I when I have access to outdoor I'm doing these these kind of outdoor workouts always when I'm have access because that's enough of a different stimulus too that your body's Not gonna get like so used to it that you're not gonna see results from it So I mean that's how that's a much simpler approach I would just be like hey when I met when I met my big box gym I do these types of workouts when I met my big box gym, I do these types of workouts. When I met my suspension trainer, I do these types of workouts and I'd almost always keep it similar and not really try. But you're doing it. I like what you're doing. I mean, that's even more methodical, like subtracting the workouts. And then you

move on to another program or phase. It's still progressive to me. I just look at it as you're stretching the progress out just a little bit. You know, you're,. You're maintaining, you're able to still add that activity and that muscle expression. To get those, it's definitely better to do it that way, given your circumstances. Yeah, here's the mistake that someone like you might make. You might compare your circumstances with what might be considered ideal circumstances. What are the drawbacks? Like what would it be like if I always was in the gym with all the time I needed to work out?

Well guess what? You don't live that way. You got two kids, a job, your wife, you know, doing her thing with the, yeah. So no, you're perfect bro. This is ideal for your life. Selfish question. How do you like Kid Strong? Oh, I love it. It's very, it's such a switch. Cause when I say PT, I mean, physical therapist, not a personal trainer, even though I am certified as a trainer, but, uh, physical therapy, I'm working with vets in their sixties, seventies, eighties, the majority of the time. Whereas when you go to kid strong,

you're, you got kids and it's the idea is to keep it fun, keep it moving, but I absolutely love it. I'm a little challenged at times because I have a lot of ADHD and lose sight of what I'm supposed to do sometimes, but otherwise I absolutely love it. Have you been doing it long enough? I looked into the franchise, actually, buying one. I'm curious, have you been doing it long enough to see like the progress in kids and go like, oh man, or does

it feel like it's almost like just good daycare? Like it's a better choice than just general physical activity. Like how would you evaluate it from your PT like brain? So I've only been doing it three to four months. So I haven't been in it long enough to see that, that progression. Some of my coworkers have the biggest thing I'd say from it is yes, there is a bit of a daycare feel to it. They do can't amps during the summertime right now, which they're doing a lot of, which basically gets the kids out of the house. But man, it's, especially once they get up there and age that seven to 11 year old,

not only are the work workouts good, but just the fact that they're learning like how to overcome, how to push through things, how to, yeah, not how not to let things that are hard stop them from doing it. That's probably the biggest lesson that I'm seeing. Good feedback. Appreciate that. Yes feedback appreciate that. Yes sir. Yes sir. Selfishly let me put my plug in first off you guys have been awesome to listen to you guys. I started listening to you right before my first son was born and you've helped me transition my

health and wellness from being the single guy kind of related to the question that can do whatever workout whenever he wants to to actually having to build my fitness around my family and my routine so you guys have been a major help for that and Also, just to let you know last time I called I was getting ready for a Spartan race and just to let you know I finished and did pretty well on it. So I appreciate all the feedback You're doing great work man. Yep, great work. Yeah. All right. Love you guys gave me. You got it, man. You're doing great, man. Great work. All right, love you guys.

Thank you. Keep it up. Take it easy, man. Take it easy. Yeah, I mean, good question. It depends on who's asking me. Yeah, no, totally. Yeah, someone with his.

I mean, he's approaching it even more methodical than I would. Like, I would, for myself, I simplify that. It's just like, when I have access to this, I'm doing these things. What tools are available to me and then kind of create. The irony of it is, in the beginning, the more you've structured your plan is, the more you follow good programming, later on as you learn your body, as you learn how these exercises affect you,

the more free you are to move outside of that kind of stuff. And so, and he's the right person to ask that question. If this was a new person, I'd say no. I'd say I have a better program for you. Follow this instead. You definitely have to learn how to do that first. Yeah, no, 100% there's levels to this. You could tell by the way he's already going about.

I was like, oh, he's just overthinking it right now. At this point, he's doing such a good job, he's like, am I not squeezing enough out of this? It's already intuitive for him, so yeah, he'll just lean into that. Totally. Our next caller is Gina from Florida. Hi Gina.

How you doing Gina? Hi, nice to see you. This is exciting. How can we help you? So, um, I, I gave you a little history. Just quick, quick, quick. Um, I've been a runner for like many years, almost going on 40 years. And I've been listening to you about running and trying to take that advice.

And I've been doing a lot of weight training and, um, CrossFit all that stuff. But I recently got into hot, intense vinyasa yoga. And, um, I just want to know, like, am I wasting my time? Do you think it has any benefits as far as building muscle and burning fat? All right. What, what let's back up for a second. You do CrossFit?

I did. I was, I was CrossFit and a second. Did you do CrossFit? I did. I was CrossFit for many years and now I just kind of do my own CrossFit-y kind of things in a gym. Okay. So because for knee pain and stuff like that, traditional strength training and correctional exercise are going to be best. CrossFit style workouts, probably not a good idea. Yeah.

So right now, ironically, I just got a PRP shot in my torn meniscus yesterday. So I'm recovering from that, but that was just years of running abuse. So in CrossFit style programming will contribute to more damage because of the speed and the so traditional strength training, especially correction exercises, the way to go. Yeah. What is the goal? I've listened to your halting about squats. I've been trying to do like a hundred squats a day. Every time I, you know, I to go. Yeah. What is the goal of- I've been doing, I've listened to your halting about squats. I've been trying to do like a hundred squats a day every time I work out.

Yeah. You might be over training a little bit, Gina, just for that, from that kind of stuff. But let's go back to Vinyasa style yoga. Yeah. What's the goal with it? Is it fat loss? Is it muscle gain or is it for mobility? Is it for-

Yeah, in range strength. Stress? Probably all of the above. Like aesthetics, mobility, definitely because I'm a runner, it really helps me immensely with mobility and just burning fat and building muscle. It's probably not a great, I mean, so vinyasa, hot yoga. For burning body fat and building muscle is terrible, let's just be honest. Don't beat around the bush for her.

It's terrible for that. It's not worth your time like that. There's a million other things we could do with that time that would move the needle towards those two goals way better than that. Now, if your goal is like, man, like corrective exercise wise, like my hips feel good and like when I,

the stretching portion of it, incredible. It's great. It's a- You feel more stable and controlled. Yeah, it's a great place. Now, if you were my client, I would design a specific mobility routine that's an hour long for you and your exact issues. So if I did a full assessment on you,

and I watched the way you move, and I noticed that, oh, you have ankle mobility stuff going on, I noticed a little bit of internal rotation on your right hip. I noticed that you don't have good movement in your right shoulder I would put a series of mobility type, you know corrective exercise stretch movements That and that would be you know take you 30 minutes to get through that I'd want you to do in replace of yoga

But if you're not doing that then yoga is better than nothing to help with some of that stuff if that makes sense. Yeah. That's about the best thing you're getting out of that. It's not strength training. Strength training is very specific and what makes strength training, strength training is the rest periods. It's not that it's hard. So strength training is you do a set, you know, 10 reps, decent intensity, not failure but good, and then you rest for two minutes, three minutes, and then you do another set that strength training Going from exercise to exercise to exercise to exercise is not strength training Yoga is not strength training cardio is not strength training. So if you're trying to build muscle and sculpt your body you want to do

Traditional strength training and you want to combine it with adequate calories and protein Okay. Now you included in here, your height and weight. Are those still accurate? Yes. Okay. Do you know how many calories you're eating a day? No, I don't know. I should be better at that. I do not, not, not a lot. I know I probably not eating enough. I try and increase my protein. I try and stay away from carbs. I know I don't eat enough. No, you don't. I don't think you do, and I think you over train.

Well, you definitely do if you under eat. If you're doing all the things that you mentioned that you do, CrossFit, this yoga. And you ran forever until your knees hurt. Yeah. You're an avatar. I've trained so many people like you, and I can make huge differences in your body if you would listen to us. Now, here's going to be the challenge.

It's going to be very different from what you're used to. Because what you're used to is beating yourself up and under eating and that's not serving you. Even though you've gotten some results from it. Your joints are gonna just keep screaming at you from here. Yeah and I feel like for my height I should be way less. So I feel like I can move, you know? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I could put 20 pounds on you and you'll be happier with the way you look. You'll be 20 pounds heavier on the scale. Yeah. More shape, more tone, more all that stuff that you're looking for. Losing weight is not what you need to do. No, no, no. If that's your accurate body weight and height. Gina, how much, what's our trust level between us right now?

How long have you been listening to us? What level are we? I've been listening to you for probably about eight months. Okay. So we're getting there. It's new. We're cooking. We're new, but we're cooking.

You changed my mind about running. Like, you know, I, you know, I could, I scaled it back instead of running out nine miles, now I'll just run like five or six. Every day. Okay. So we're, we're like, we're like level six in the dating, dating relationship here. We're working our way to full trust. We dating relationship here. We're working our way to full trust.

We need some reinforcement. We're working our way to full trust here. Well, I definitely want to do a couple things for you right off the gates. I definitely want to put you in the private forum. I would love if you would let one of my trainers get on the phone with you and do a full assessment with you and really be more specific. We can help with little tips right now. Lots of individual ideas. Because to Sal's point, you are one of my favorite avatars to help

because I could, I'll- I'll blow your mind in 30 days. Absolutely blow your mind. Especially when you said things like you want the aesthetics and the way you're going about the aesthetics, putting it as nicely as possible is all the wrong way. Like all the wrong way. And so what's good about,

let me tell you what's good about that, is that I have so many levers to pull with you that it's gonna blow your mind, that's gonna change your physique for the better, that is awesome. Because- At the end of this, this is what it looks like. No pain, I look incredible, I have more energy,

and what the heck, I'm eating twice as much as I was eating before. I eat more, I work out less, I look better than I've ever looked. The challenges feel better than I ever felt. It's easier for you. And that's going to really sit in here. Yep. It's going to be hard to deal with.

I get back to the hot yoga for a second. It is under infrared. Um, that's cool. Like, yeah. So, I mean, does that have any benefits? Yeah, there's mitochondrial health there. There's health benefits to, to hot therapy. It's not bad. It was just the way you framed it of what you're trying to get out of it. I would tell you it's, it's not for that. It's just not, it's just. way you framed it of what you're trying to get out of it, I would tell you it's not for that.

It's just not, it's just. If you want the benefits. There's health benefits, yeah. If you want the benefits of infrared, you can sit in an infrared sauna and get the benefits. You don't have to do the yoga. Okay. And the heat, it's like 101 degrees,

it's not, that doesn't make a difference. No, if you went in a sauna, a traditional sauna, and sat one for 20 minutes, three days a week, you get all these incredible cardiovascular health benefits. Yeah, it's good for you. The yoga on top of it, just to put it, I guess to try to be as short as I can, it's going to take away from your body's ability to build muscle from the right kind of strength training. So again, if you were my client, we would be strength training two or three days a

week. I would be having you focus on walking and not running. I would bump your calories. We start tracking, we'd increase your calories. I wouldn't let you weigh yourself on the scale because that would mess everything up. And then you would just be like, what is happening to my body? Why do I look amazing? Oh my God, I have so much energy. I'm eating more food. Why is this working? This doesn't make sense. And then 60 days later, you'd be like, I'll do whatever you say. Yep. That's what it would be like. That's how it goes. All right. If you let me, Gina, I'm going to have one

of our trainers call you and really do a deep dive with you and get into the nutrition and all the good stuff with you if you're open to that. Yeah, definitely. Okay, cool. Because I definitely want to help you. And I definitely think it would be mentally easier to do that. The hardest part of this will be, uh, is the mental part. Like the things to do exercise, what you've already proven, you've got discipline just from what you've done for so many years, I already know you're a disciplined person, like you're motivated, you're disciplined.

Like I can check all the boxes, which is, this is all a positive thing for me as a coach and a trainer. I'm like, okay, I know that I can point this girl in the right direction and she's going to do the work. And so I just need to point you in the right direction. I think we've been going the wrong direction for your goals for quite some time now and we can solve that and fix that. So but it will take this someone in your ear going like, don't worry, stay the course.

You're doing great course you're doing great You're doing great because it's gonna feel so different Yeah, and that's that's gonna be the hard part and that's always the hard part with the client like you is not the discipline It's the the getting out of your own way and the way you've done things for so long So but if you trust us, yeah We'll get we'll get to the bottom and we'll fix. And I promise if you give me six months or so, I'll blow your mind. And three months, we're going to have you back on the podcast

after you do this. Because you're going to be singing such an awesome tune. Yep. Yep. OK. I'm going to have one of the coaches reach out to you. And then we'll also schedule a three month check in with you. And then the audience can hear.

And then if we're totally wrong, I'll even let you come on and blast us. Exactly. Okay. So that puts accountability on us too to deliver, right? All right. All right, Gina, I'm gonna have them reach out to you then. Okay, that sounds good.

Thank you so much for your help. You got it. Thank you. Bye. How many clients did you train like that? Half of them. The hard part is getting her to trust. Yes That's why why do you think I asked the first where we at in the trust?

We have the trust relationship the first the first two weeks the first month Maybe even two months should be scared. Yeah of all the changes. I'm not what are you talking? I used to work out all the time. You're making me eat all this food. This isn't gonna work I want to weigh myself, please let me weigh myself. Whatever. But what's going to happen, reassurance reassurance reassurance, such a crazy awakening for her that at the end of this, she's going to be like, Oh my God, I can't believe how good this is.

All this stuff. Why I asked her if it's okay if one of our, cause she's going to need a coach all the way through just to, just to keep her on point and following because if literally to deprogram that. Yes, because we can sit here and lay out all the steps, but then every one of the, but she would never get to step two or three or four because by step one already she'd be like doubting it or, Oh no, this isn't right. This doesn't feel like, and you just need somebody who's like, don't worry. Yes, we're doing

good. Yes. It's the right path to stay in the course. And then it starts to unfold after 30, 60, 90 days. It's like, oh, OK. Mind blowing. Yes. So I hope she does it. Our next caller is Andrew from New Jersey. Andrew, what's happening?

What's up, man? How's it going, guys? Thanks for taking my question here. You got it. How can I help you? Yeah, I started listening about a month ago. And I got to say, I started listening to learn more about, you know, strength training and health, but, uh, everything I

learned about being a better dad, being a better, you know, husband, and even being better in my faith. Uh, I think that's what you guys are going for. And I think you're really doing a good job. So I appreciate it. So, uh, quick backstory. I, uh, was competitive with a jujitsu in my early 20s. I worked as a coach and a trainer. By the time I was in my 30s, my body was just beat up. So I trained less,

worked out less, gained weight, had bad anxiety, had overall bad health. My daughter was born a couple years ago. I knew I had to do something better for my life. So I lost weight, lost about 30 pounds and started strength training to hopefully help with all the joint pain and whatnot I've had. About eight months now I've been following a pretty rigid routine and I've had great results. I feel 100 times better. I just do a slow reps, full range of motion, slow and eccentric, and focus on progressive overload and have had great success. The initial question I had, you know, since then,

my initial email, I've got some of the MAPS programs, even got on a call with one of your coaches, and he suggested, you know, the MAPS Prime program. So my question kind of still is, I have trouble with my shoulders, my traps, my neck. Not only are they weaker, but they are definitely, you know, they hurt more than other body parts I work. So within the programs, what do you suggest for focusing on shoulders and traps and, and, uh, also, like, how do you incorporate Maps Prime into your strength training?

Yeah, good question. Yep. By the way, when you were doing Jiu-Jitsu, you didn't happen to train at Matt Serra's gym, did you? Matt Serra, it was like, I trained under Hensel Gracie, so Matt Sarah was like he was the 170 pound champ when I like first started He was like he was like kind of my size. So he was he was like my hero. He's the man He's a super cool guy once you get to know him. Awesome. Awesome. Alright, so here's what you do with prime Okay, so what you're talking about is that that zone one test and maps prime the wall test That you can just use that as a way to get yourself set up for your workouts. You can also do that throughout the day just to get things moving a little better.

Now in the zone one test, there are exercises connected to it for people who struggle with that upper kind of that area that you're talking about, that upper back, shoulder, neck area, those are the movements that you would do just on your own to kind of strengthen and rehab those areas. Now do you have Prime Pro by any chance? Yeah, it actually came with your summer bundles. Prime Pro is much more specific

and I really like for someone like you from what you're describing, shoulder, scapular and thoracic type movements, like correctional exercise movements. And those are the things that you could practice any time. And you could practice them several times a day. Those should help quite a bit. Simultaneously, the exercises that bother those areas,

I would go a little lighter while you're focusing on correctional exercise so that you can get things to move better. So would you say shoulder, neck, and scapular is what we should do? Yeah, of course. I would go a little lighter while you're focusing on correctional exercise so that you can get things. So would you say shoulder, neck and scapular is what we said to him? So to be more specific, this is what it would look like for me is like, it's because sometimes it can be overwhelming for people. They look at it and they're like, man, you guys got so much in here and we in it's not,

it's not very prescriptive. We kind of allow you guys to kind of pick and choose. And so to be more prescriptive, I pick one movement for each of those. Right? So go to prime, prime pro, what Sal just said, neck, shoulder, scapular, pick one movement and pick the one that you like the most or you'll do the most or that you feel the most relief from. Like if you do it, you're like, Oh wow, when I do that, that does make me feel better. Okay. That's your movement. Like once you have those three, the goal is to practice that as much as you can throughout your day, cause it's only going to make you

feel better. It's only gonna get the shoulders and your neck and everything moving and feeling better by practicing those movements but at the bare minimum you always do before you start your workout. So that becomes the way you prime and start your workouts is you do those three movements. Those three movements become a staple. That's kind of the point that Sal is making with the upper, the zone one in prime where you just, that's one of my favorite ways to start my workout. So if I know I'm doing any upper body work, shoulders, chest, anything like that, I get over to the wall and I basically

just do that test like three or four times and really intensify it and then that really warms me up in that area because really what you're doing and the wall is just giving you feedback but you're waking up all those muscles that are responsible for pulling you back into that kind of optimal position with your shoulders and your neck and your scapula and so I'll use just that zone that zone one test to kind of get me ready to before I go do a bench press and I have to if I don't I'll feel like clicking in my shoulder and I just I can tell the bars not moving the way it should because I'm not prying properly but like Sal's point I would pick those three areas pick one movement from each of them

try and practice it as much you can through the day but as a commitment to myself I'm like bare minimum I'm doing those before every lifting day and that'll make or before I do any sort of jiu-jitsu I'm gonna do it too. Great great and for strength training do you suggest like the anabolic program or? I would actually like see you on symmetry. Yeah, symmetry would be great. If you don't have it, we can send that to you. That was with the summer bundle. I have a mole now. Oh, good, good, good. You're set. Yeah, go to symmetry. Symmetry will be better for you right now. And then just like we, that's how we would use those mobility moves or

prime or prime pro with it is just before every workout, you're doing those movements and you're just trying and the key is if you watch the videos in prime pro and you see Dr. Brink like coaching us, it's it, the queuing is so important. Like what the mistake, if I ever see anybody do mobility work is it just kind of go through the motions and they don't really try and like, you got to make it very intentional and like if you if done properly, it's it'll be difficult and you'll have sticking points and you will intensify it. Like you, the way it's cued is really important.

Like the mistake people make is they just kind of go through it and they go to where their body limits them and they think they're doing something. It's like, no, you're, you're trying to gain new access, new range of motion, better connection. That requires like the intensifying it. And a good example of that is if you've never watched, uh, my mobility webinar that I did, uh, which, what's it at Doug? It's at prime, pro webinar, prime pro webinar.com is like a follow along webinar that I do on mobility, like a mobility class.

That's good to watch if you've never seen it. Cause you can see me doing it and coaching it and it like makes like, oh, okay, I get what he's doing. Like that's how I need to approach all these mobility moves. Awesome, great, thanks. Appreciate it. Yeah. You got it, man.

You're set bro. Cool. Thanks for calling in brother. Yeah, thanks Andrew. Thanks. You got it. Thanks Andrew. Thanks. You got it. See the forearms on that guy? He grabbed, took a hold of you.

He's a gripper. Right away. Big gripper. No, it's a, I mean what we said for anybody who has Maps Prime and Prime Pro, like that's what you do. Yeah. That is what you do. That's the point of it.

Yeah, and that fixes things. But you do simultaneously need to probably reduce the intensity of when you train those body parts with traditional exercises so you can gain new you know different different access different recruitment patterns otherwise if you also hammer your body moving the old way it's very hard to override. And as frequently as possible you perform it you just at low intensity so just because this is a new body language you're trying to learn in a sense we have to repattern it that we have to do this frequently great look if you like to show come find us on Instagram Justin is that mind pump

Justin I'm at my pump to Stefano Adam and my pump out thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a 5-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is MindPump!