Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2639: The 5 Reasons Why People Can’t Stop Fasting & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: July 12, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: The 5 Reasons Why People Can’t Stop Fasting. (1:51) Why Sal doesn’t want to do his upcoming YouTube series. (21:47) The MOST powerful skin regeneration protocol. (32:22) Hidden gems in animated films. (35:44) What a terrible accident. (38:41) The pressures of teen dating and the delicate tackling of it as a parent. (41:00) The neuropsychology of raising children. (49:38) Guess Who? (55:52) Zbiotics customer testimonials. (57:33) #ListenerLive question #1 – How would I go about correcting rib flare? (1:03:28) #ListenerLive question #2 – Is diet the thing that is holding me back from building muscle more than the programming? (1:08:33) #ListenerLive question #3 – What's the best way to figure out how much weight to lift when in a deficit? Finally, if I only use MAPS 15 for the rest of my life, will I receive all the benefits I need, or do I need to switch up my programs? (1:18:23) #ListenerLive question #4 – UPDATE: My thoughts on MAPS Aesthetic as a 67-year-old man. (1:26:00) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Joovv for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP to get $50 off your first purchase. ** Visit Pre-Alcohol by ZBiotics for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MINDPUMP25 for 15% off first-time purchasers on either one-time purchases, (3, 6, 12-packs) or subscriptions (6, 12-pack) ** July Special: MAPS Split or Anabolic Metabolism Bundle 50% off! ** Code JULY50 at checkout ** Mind Pump #2405: The 5 Intermittent Fasting Mistakes Causing Weight Gain Building Businesses for Strangers – Alex Hormozi New Zealand trucker 'blown up like balloon' by air hose Diary of a CEO - DEBATE: Has Modern Feminism Gone TOO FAR?! The John Delony Show - An Honest Take On Parenting Today (With Dr. Becky Kennedy) Becky Kennedy: The single most important parenting strategy | Ted Talk GUESS WHO Disney Star Wars Memory Matching Game by Hasbro Visit Hiya for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Receive 50% off your first order ** How to Perform a PROPER Dumbbell Pullover Mind Pump #2210: Best Workouts for Bulking & Cutting Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Mikhaila Peterson (@mikhailapeterson) Instagram IFBB PRO Johnny Sebastian (@_johnnysebastian) Instagram Alex Hormozi (@hormozi) Instagram Erica Komisar, LCSW (@ericakomisar) Instagram Dr. John Delony (@johndelony) Instagram Dr. Becky Kennedy | Parenting (@drbeckyatgoodinside) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast in podcasting history. That's right. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we had live callers call in. We got to coach them on air, but this was after the intro.

Today's intro was about 61 minutes long. In the intro, we talk about studies on fat loss and fitness and muscle gain. We talk about current events, family life, bringing up children. It's a good time. By the way, you wanna be on an episode like this one, send us your question through email

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Use the code mindpump25, get yourself a huge discount. We also have a sale on some workout programs. MAPS split and the anabolic metabolism bundle of programs, that's all 50% off. If you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code JULY50 for that discount. Here comes the show. Fasting. Why are people so obsessed with starving themselves? It's rigid, it's extreme, yet

people say it melts fat, gives them energy, breaks them free from food. What is going on today? We're going to unpack the five reasons why people can't stop fasting. We're going to talk about what works, what doesn't work. Stay tuned. You're going to get surprised. Yeah. Yeah. Um, do we have any data on the popularity of that in just in the context of the last decade? Like obviously it's been around forever, but I, you know, I remember when we first started kind of talking about it on the podcast and it seemed like it was just on fire. Then it felt like it kind of died off, but then it feels kind of like it's having a resurgence again.

Is that, am I on to the trend? You are. It's one of the most popular quote unquote diets still to this day. Still. Yeah, it still is. Now the success rate of fasting in the data shows that it's about as successful as any other diet. Really it's not anymore. No. I would actually think it would be a little bit more.

No, no. I mean in comparison to... Because of your first point. Your first point to me highlights why so... a big reason why so many people do it and then also why I would think you would have a little more success no and you know okay? You guys know this guys. It's typically not the diet. That's the parents. Yeah, and it's adherence, but it's also the individual and what's going on Around the relationship to food and we coach people for a long time and there's things that you need to work on That are root issues that'll make Whatever diet you're on either far more successful successful or if you refuse to work on them or you don't, that'll make all of them as equally

unsuccessful. And yes, there are diets that are less successful than others in terms of adherence. When I'm talking about fasting in comparison to other diets, I mean in comparison to other diets that are ones that we would say, well those are okay. Because there's crazy stuff that's out there. I don't think any dietician or anybody in the health space would say.

Yeah, like no, that's like the worst, right? But yeah, the fail rate is about the same as other diets. But people love it, here's the thing. People absolutely love it. Now we've done a lot of episodes, a few episodes at least, on why it's not a great way to lose weight, but it's very similar as to why we don't think, you know, just cutting your carbs

is a great way to lose weight, or why, you know, any type of, you know, quote unquote diet is necessarily a great way to lose weight. But again, people love it. The people that do it or talk about it absolutely love it. There's value to it, it's just the application of it. Yes. And I think that's really why we always try to kind of highlight that.

What's the best application of it? It's also one of the oldest diets. It's been around for, fasting was a spiritual diet. It's been around for thousands of years. It's the original diet. We used to call it starving yourself in the 90s when people would say, oh I skipped breakfast or I skipped two meals and that's what we would say.

But again, when you talk to people, here's why people like it so much. And the first reason is, it's simple. People like simple. Now here's the problem with simple, is that diet is anything but simple. The food that you eat is so connected to so many aspects of your personality, your culture, your life that to say that it's

this one simple step is going to fix all that is naive. Food isn't just fuel. I know a lot of fitness influencers will convince you otherwise. It's not just fuel, it's also connection, it's also celebration. There's also an enjoyment that we get from it. That's a value. It can also be healing. It can also be abused. That's obvious. Nostalgia. Yeah, nostalgia. There's foods that I love, not because they're objectively delicious, but because I got memories connected to those foods. One of my favorite examples of that are those, brought them up before on the show, those chicken and a biscuit crackers.

Which objectively is like, what am I eating? It's a cracker that tastes like chicken soup. Flavored chicken. It's like a bouillon cube. A little off topic but not totally. I had this kind of epiphany in relation to this of we were having roasted marshmallows and I was realizing just how terrible they taste. Yeah.

I'm like, but yet I love it. I'm like, what am I doing? But of course, it's the nostalgia. Sitting around with my son by the fire, put him on, and light him up. You're not going to eat roasted marshmallows by yourself watching TV. Yeah.

It's because you're around a fire. But even like, I just happened to have this. This literally just happened this last week, this internal conversation of like, I, if you were to ask me before I was eating them in that moment, do you love doing roasted mar? Oh yeah, I love that. I love that. But then as I'm like eating them, I'm like, this really is not good. I've convinced myself. In fact, I burned the marshmallow to get it.

You like it better. Yeah, like it burnt. No, the chicken hibiscus is when I was sick and I'd be home from school. Uh, if I stayed at my grandma's house, she'd always have better. Yeah, like it burnt. I know. No, the chicken and biscuits, because when I was sick and I'd be home from school, if I stayed at my grandma's house, she'd always have them. Yeah. And so it was always like this nostalgia of my grandma taking care of me and letting me watch whatever I wanted. Those triscuits for me.

Yeah, triscuits are disgusting, right? Yeah, they're horrible. But my point with this is, diet is complex. Nonetheless, people like simple. Don't eat carbs. Just eat this. Don't eat that. How about this?

The only rule is you can only eat between the hours of here and here. It doesn't get more simple than that. It really doesn't. Eat whatever you want, just don't eat outside of this time window. Wouldn't you say that this is more of a marketing rule than anything else?

Oh yeah, it's human psychology. Yeah, it's human psychology. No, right, marketing is human psychology. Yeah, so this is really more of a marketing role. It's like, keep it simple that a five-year-old can understand it and you're more likely to sell it when people adopt it. And so some complex diet that requires calculations

or percentages. Oh God, no one's gonna do that. I'm like, that's just, that's too much. Oh, tell me you just don't have that? Yeah. Oh, okay, I could do that, which is why carnivore diet, which is why these no- diets, it's like oh I just eliminate one thing or I just don't eat, which is the simplest of all, you know.

It's like hey eat whatever you want, just eat between the hours of you know. This one. Yeah, super simple, super black and white, that makes it super appealing to human behavior. The second reason is it definitely can, and I say can because there are cases where this becomes a problem, especially people with previous histories of eating disorders, so fasting, terrible, terrible idea for somebody who suffered

from anorexia or bulimia or anything along those lines because it would just still send them spiraling. But to people who feel chained to eating, like what does this look like? Alright I'll give you an extreme example. This was me in an extreme example. Growing up, starting to lift weights, I'm 14 years old, like I just want to get big. That's all I care about. This is still an issue that I have to struggle with but when I was 14 it was like, it was full speed ahead, like this was like, this was my thing and all I want to do is get big at all costs and when I learned that eating food was important then I was

chained to it and then when I learned that I had to eat every two hours is what the bodybuilders did if I went to out if I went more than two hours without eating I could see with my eyes obviously imagined but I could see my eyes my muscles are getting smaller oh my god, and it was a problem to the point where I would become irritable Yeah, and I would think I was hangry or whatever and this is definitely the hangry people. Yes Fasting for me broke the chains from that. I realized I didn't have to go I didn't have to eat seven times a day. I mean literally you guys my personal training business I was training ten people a day and I was eat seven times a day. I mean, literally, guys, my personal training business, I was training 10 people a day

and I was eating seven times a day. It was like, one client would leave, I'd go in the back, I had a microwave in my studio, and I would eat it so fast, I actually mastered the art of eating fast because my next client was coming in and foam rolling, and then I'd train them or whatever. Fasting helped me break those chains. Now, to somebody who's not that extreme,

a lot of people still feel chained to food. And what it feels like is like, well, you said, Justin, it's like, if I don't get lunch, I'm annoyed, I'm irritable. If I don't eat in the morning, I feel, and that's probably not true. What's probably true is that you anticipate eating, you're connected to food because you have to eat at this time. And then when you fast, you start to realize like, oh, actually I'm not irritable. It's just the anticipation.

I think we were all all culturally programmed that way. I mean, I felt that way. If I got to the point where I was hungry, I felt like that was a big problem. What did you do? You should have ate. And it was just all this hyper, like you have to eat, and you have to get ahead of that.

You should never feel hungry. You should never feel hungry. Yeah, and then there was the, you're gonna lose muscle. And then so there's that paranoia stacked on top of that. So yeah, I remember going through a 24 hour fast and it really did put me in complete different perspective. Well, especially in our profession, I think it's exacerbated, right?

I think that we're taught the importance of, I mean, and back then a lot of us, you know, believed or adopted the anabolic window and the benefits of that and just how important it was to hit those protein targets. And so yeah, we became obsessed with that. I mean, I told you guys this when we were early on in the podcast that the clients I loved using it best with were my competitors.

Yeah, because they were like that. They were the most disciplined around eating like that. They were the ones that never missed meals and could tell you, oh, I've gone years and not missed a meal. And it's like, oh, these are the perfect people to implement something like this to help that attachment that they have to food. And so I think it has value.

But a lot of people that do you guys also think this, I feel like, doesn't it feel like more often than not I know there's always exceptions the rule example this would be like Michaela Peterson who absolute carnivore diet was what she should be on it's been life changing for her but for the most part doesn't it feel like most people adopt like the absolute worst diet for them yeah like they're attracted the the wrong the wrong people that choose to do the diet, whatever diet, too, by the way, replace fasting with carnivore or whatever, that's like, they tend to gravitate towards the thing that's probably the weakest.

You know what's the difference to the dysfunction instead of what's good for you? It's like that person who keeps getting abused. They keep getting in dysfunctional relationships. They don't fix their own insecurities. I think it's the other person, it's the diet. Oh, I gotta try another diet. I try another, no, it's you.

It's not the diet, dude. You're the common denominator here. Yeah, it's not every guy, it's not every girl, it's you. I think the common denominator is you. No, 100%, I totally agree with that. Next, and this is what people will promote, weight loss. Does it promote weight loss? Well, for a lot of people it does

because it's a very fast and easy way of cutting calories. Reduce calories, yes. Obvious. If I have a three hour eating window, I'm probably going to eat less calories, but I say probably because people have found ways to eat a lot in three hours. This can turn into this kind of restrict binge type of thing. But for many people, especially in the beginning, when they don't eat until five o'clock or when they don't eat after 10 a.m. or whatever,

it just results in eating less calories. And so then they're losing weight and then they're like, oh, it must be the fasting that's causing the weight loss. Like, no, it's the calorie deficit. And there are studies on this. Not that we needed the studies because we knew this, but there are very now good studies comparing fasting to calorie deficit, all things being equal.

Does fasting result in more fat loss? No, it doesn't. It doesn't change anything. I love how much we science the shit out of the window. Meaning, what I mean by that is like, we have written books and we have convinced people of the crazy timing. Yes, the that when restricted in this window for this time, it's beneficial for all these

lists of things, right? And we list them and you're just, oh my God, there's something magical about the six or eight hour window so that when in reality, the real most effective part of the windows that it's just really hard to eat over calories in such a small timeframe. And so that's the real science. It's not, I mean, we sell it as the cell autophagy and we sell it as all these things that are happening, you know, in your body physiologically

that are so beneficial, but it's like, come on, you're splitting hairs on those benefits when it comes to that with you. If you did nine hours or six hours, it's almost irrelevant, but we've sold people so hard on the science behind that. When it's like, no, really what it is is that we've constrained your eating time so small

that it's like, good luck trying to eat 4,000 calories. That's right, exactly. Get back it all in there. Now the next two points, there's merit. Reduced inflammation. For people with gut health issues, certain types of gut health issues, by the way, within your eating window, you would still have to eat a particular way because you could totally flip this and just screw it all up.

But giving your digestive system a break from working at all. In many cases is good for gut health. So there are cases where there's so much gut inflammation. And again, it depends on the individual, right? Cause sometimes fasting can actually cause more stress to happen and stuff like that. But there are cases where it's like, yeah, dude, it's a good idea to not eat so frequently because you need to give your digestive system a break.

You need to reduce inflammation. and that's what happens. It's like anything like when the digestive system is working, there's going to be more inflammation in the digestive system. When you leave it alone, it has a chance to repair. In extreme cases, long fasts have been shown to completely heal people's guts. So you have cases in situations, I'm going to be very clear, you know, you would want to work with a functional medicine practitioner to see if this is appropriate for you. But there are cases where people will fast for 72 hours and their gut lining is almost back to normal. Now this was me, this was me. I struggled and I say struggled because I think I figured this out for the last year. I think I've actually fixed my gut health over the last year. But on and off, probably for 13 years, at least 10 years, I struggled with gut health

issues, sometimes better, sometimes worse. My go-to fix when everything else wasn't working was fast. When I would fast for 48 hours, I'd come back and my gut would be much better. So there is a anti-inflammatory benefit from giving your digestive system a break and that's 100% true. You know the truth about that though that represents less than 10% of the people that are motivated to do it for those reasons. Most people are not. Most 90% no 90% because I would be pro that if I had a client that was telling me how much they're bad they're like man I just feel so good when I do that 24-hour fast we're implementing it

because of that reason but that's rarely what the case is most of the time. You know this reminds me of too do you guys remember how fired up we used to get early on when we started the podcast of the influencer dorks that would do the all, they were viral, they were millions of followers and they were promoting fasting and it was like they would crush a whole pizza, the whole page, remember that guy? We got into it with one of those guys, I remember. One meal a day and I can eat whatever I want

and be shredded. And he would be showing people just- Just promoting fats and bad habits. Terrible beat. Binge restrict. He was, I don't know, he's like 20 something years old, skinny kid. It was bulimia without the throwing up. It was totally binge restrict.

Just such an irresponsible thing to be teaching or telling people that you can. Yeah, you can do it. Should you do it? Probably not. I think even if you saw results, it leads to some really bad... I have seen just as many, because earlier we said it can help people to break the chains from food, I have seen just as many people become chained

to dysfunctional eating through fasting because it promoted this. People without this terrible dysfunction will start fasting, and then what it starts to morph into is restrict, restrict, restrict, oh, my eating window binged. And I saw this so many times that I was,

I started becoming anti-fast. Well this goes to my point that I said earlier that I think that the majority of people are attracted to the wrong diet for them. And this gave the girl who ate five servings of carrots all day long permission to do that. Like that she was doing something okay, like, oh, I can do this, oh, I'm fasting.

No, that's not healthy. It's not healthy to do that. No, no, not at all. And lastly, again, this is a true one, not eating for a certain period of time, prolonged period of time, spikes, catecholamines. All right, what are catecholamines? Dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine.

These are chemicals that are released in fight or flight situations. They also feel good. They feel good. Like your dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine goes up. You're hyped. You have energy. You feel sharp. Now the evolutionary argument for this is if you go without food for a long time, your body is trying to get you better at hunting because you suck right now. You're not getting food, so let's get you. Now, this can get addicting. This feeling, because here's what happens when you fast,

especially if you do a long fast, is at first you're like, oh, I'm struggling, and then you're like, I'm hungry, and then you break through and suddenly like, oh my, you'll see people talk about this, oh my god, I feel amazing, I feel so sharp. What they're feeling is this cocktail of drugs that's getting released called catecholamines. Now here's what happens, here's the bad side of this

because it's not necessarily bad to spike your catecholamines but if you repeatedly do this over and over and over and over again it starts to become too much of a stress response. You get less of this spike and you actually can fall into HPA axis dysfunction as a result. As your receptors start to down regulate, you stop producing as much of those things and then you suddenly now fasting, you feel like garbage as a result. I've seen this by the way, it's more in my experience. This is more common with women where they'll do this, do this, do this and suddenly their

hair's falling out and they feel like garbage. Even though we're getting adequate nutrients, it's like, you know, what's going on? But again, this is real. If you fast, you'll probably, and I say probably because some people won't, but you'll probably get an energy boost. And then you'll say, how is this possible? I'm not eating food.

It's the beauty of these chemicals that you're pumping out, you know? I think the biggest bone I have to pick with fasting is, and most people that listen to the podcast are strength training. You probably come here, you obviously have heard us promote it for so long. And in that context of lifting weights to build muscle,

to speed your metabolism up, to then maybe in turn lose body fat or be healthier in general, it is difficult. And in my experience, It's already difficult. It is really difficult, not just personally, but all difficult. In my experience, it is really difficult, not just personally, but all the people I've trained, really difficult to hit your protein targets,

optimal protein targets in a 24-hour window. So restricting somebody to a smaller window and then also saying, you know, it's eating out a major meal. 200 grams of protein, I'd have to eat in three hours. What am I gonna do? Yeah, and so, I'd have to eat a major meal. 200 grams of protein, I'd have to eat in three hours. What am I gonna do? Yeah, and so, you wanna talk about slowing your results

or your progress in pursuit of speeding your metabolism up and building muscle and building the physique you want. Well, I got a recipe for that. Don't hit your protein and targets consistently. And so I just think that it's terrible for that. Very few people I have met, even people that have had success with fasting, their success is just because they lost weight, right? They reduced calories and the weight came down so therefore they think it was a good strategy. But then they're

in this awful plateau where they're not getting the body they want and they're not getting the body they want because they can't build any muscle. You can't build any muscle on that low of calories and that low of protein, and they can't do that because they've restricted themselves to a window. It's very difficult to hit 130, 170, 200 grams of protein consistently day in and day out. Therefore, all the work you're doing in the strength training,

the best MAPS program in the world, it's not, yeah, it isn't reaping the benefits that it should. 100%, that's one of my biggest qualms with it. You know, this brings me to the topic. I really, I just gotta tell you guys, and I'm gonna say it on air because I'm gonna keep myself accountable, I don't wanna do this series.

I don't wanna do this YouTube series. I do not wanna do this where I get on there and publicly attack, in a real way, tackle the dysfunction that I have around fitness. I don't want to do it. I'm wrestling with it. I don't want to do it. I'm trying to convince myself not to.

I'm coming up with ways to twist it so that it still becomes about me. And man, I was talking this morning, I went to, I did some mobility work I'm trying to only lift a couple days a week is what I'm trying to do right now and I've been trying that for a little while but I went to UFC gym I had a short period of time I had to come in here early meet with Doug and so I hopped in there just to do some core and some mobility and I ran into Johnny

Sebastian our good friend pro bodybuilder, love him. I've been, we've known him forever. He actually worked for me way back in the day. Anyway, he's gonna compete again, and he's talking about tackling the same issue that I have, right, with fitness. Yeah, he's recording a series right now, and him and I were talking about this,

and he's prep, he's in prep right now yeah and he's like dude I don't how do I do this he's like do I tell people like everything I'm doing I don't know man and we're just going back and forth and I'm like how do I because I love it so what am I supposed to do not do stuff that I love that doesn't seem right like what does this look like what is fitness look like I'm talking personal what does it look like for me to fitness look like? I'm talking personal. What does it look like for me to where it's not to glorify me?

It's no longer an idol. Like how do I do this in a way that I'm not serving this terrible idol? I don't know man. And I don't wanna do it. I really don't. Because it's gonna be super raw. And I'm gonna be angry the whole time.

I think a great thing to bring up post talking about fasting, because I think the most valuable part of fasting for people is to show them their relationship that they had with food and how unhealthy it was, and it breaks those chains in the same token, that is what that's going to do, right?

By ripping the bandaid off, by forcing you to not do the thing that you say you love, will also start to break those chains of the relationship that you have with exercise and admitting that it may not be the healthiest. And what's hard about that, which I understand is that. Well, I know that and I can admit it, but here's what's gonna happen is that

my workouts are gonna get filmed. Every time I'm working out, Dylan is gonna be filming me and I'm gonna be talking about this. So there's no hiding. Now, my pride can get the better of me, and I know that, so that's gonna be a risk too, because I'm gonna be like,

what's gonna get the most attention? So I also need to steer clear from. But it's gonna be real conversation around this. And it is easy. You guys know I'm a good sales guy, okay? I can sell myself really well. And I could easily be like. This is more of like a documentary.

I'm gonna be working out, and I'm gonna be focusing on things that, like mobility and health in my workouts,. I'm gonna be working out, and I'm gonna be focusing on things that, like mobility and health in my workouts, and I'm gonna be quite honest, I'm probably gonna be focused on building muscles sometimes and getting stronger, but I have to talk about it while it's happening, and, ugh. Bro, it's gonna be so therapeutic.

Talk to those people that are like you. Yeah. The three of us, I was the first one to do this, and I didn't really overthink what it was gonna look like. I didn't overthink what would be the most viral. I just said, I'm gonna do this thing. I'm gonna attach the mic to my bill and my hat. And I'm not even gonna talk to the camera.

I'm like, I'm not even gonna try and sell anything or over explain. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna work out and as things come up in my mind, I'm just gonna vocalize it. And some people liked it, some people didn't. I really didn't care if you didn't like it, you know what I'm saying? There was a lot of critiques of people, oh, you should have done that. I was like, I don't give a shit. That wasn't why I, like, and that's how I think you should do it is that the same type of attitude of like you,, you can even and allow your freedom

to go into the workout that like, I might not even know what I'm gonna do today. And I might change it. And yeah, you submit it and address it. It's like, people are wanting to just hang out. They wanna observe like that inner dialogue and if you could vocalize your inner dialogue, I think that would help a lot.

I'm going to, which is why I don't wanna do it. Because it's gonna be the most real. That's why it's interesting. Yeah, it's gonna be the most real thing I think I've ever done. I think it's so interesting. It's gonna be really awesome. Look, you know what's helping me do this is two things.

One, I don't wanna let you guys down. It's a very powerful motivator. Good. You guys know that. Yeah, we put that pressure. Yeah, I know. And I don't wanna let you guys down. Because the business could crash if you don't want to let you guys down. It's a very powerful motivator. Good. You guys know that. Yeah, we put that pressure. Yeah, I know. And I don't want to let you guys down. Because the business could crash if you don't.

That's the truth. I could crash it with a series, Adam. You never know. No, that's a motivator. The other motivator is I'm getting encouraging messages from people who are saying, like, I'm looking forward to this. I have the same issue that you do with fitness. It's all of the fitness fanatics that struggle with this. And we speak to this all the time.

We have callers call in all the time that struggle with this. And one of the reasons why I can speak to them so well is because I'm talking to myself. I'm like, I know what this should feel like. And I can give advice real good. I'm really good at giving other people advice. But now it's like it's going to be on me. So all right, man, I am NOT looking forward to this at all it's

giving me anxiety I have to tell you I'm so excited for you I've enjoyed watching Justin's I enjoyed doing the one I did and I'm really excited to see yours any and I think what it is a little bit different for me because ironically I'm actually not really that into fitness content. So the stuff I consume is more probably business cars, stuff like that. I love, for example, my favorite business content to watch, or when people make stuff, hermosi has a series where he basically has a serial entrepreneur come on and basically, and the part that I

love the most is watching his brain work in real time. Yes. Not what he said. Problem solving in the realness of it. Not like how cool the business was or how successful it was or wasn't. It's just watching someone who I have respect, his business acumen, have respect for his business acumen, and then him watch him problem solve in real time and just see other I think that's how people have a lot of respect for your your fitness knowledge in your brain that I think they would love series and I kept getting hurt and I was getting so discouraged and pissed off. And you're like, dude, people love that more.

Yeah. They love because it humanizes you. Shit still happens to you. And they want to see, OK, how does his brain work when that shit happens and how does he communicate? And so you just need to go into completely like a blank slate like that. And I think it will turn out much better than you think if you other than trying to only one thing there's only one direction I can do and do this right and it can't be for it can't be for

anybody but but God has to do it for him because if I do it for the audience it's really easy for me to turn into teacher, sales guy. If I do it for me, we know what that looks like. If I do it for you guys, then it'll be for the business. So I gotta do it for something that keeps me straight and narrow, you know, on the straight and narrow. I'll tell you who I feel bad for, I feel bad for Dylan,

cause I feel like he's gonna get it. Cause I'm gonna get mad, Dylan's in the back looking, there's probably times I'm gonna get mad at you for filming me, but I'm gonna get it. Because I'm gonna get mad, and Dylan's in the back looking. There's probably times I'm gonna get mad at you for filming me. But I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna tell him to turn off the camera because I'm gonna be too real.

But I'm talking about it now because I got the conviction. You didn't wear one of those ghillie suits? You're seeing those? I got the conviction, you know what I mean? I was like, I was this morning, I went for a little walk after I finished with Doug and I got the conviction, you know what I mean? I was like, I was this morning, I went for a little walk after I finished with Doug, and I got the conviction.

I'm like, you need to keep talking about this because you're gonna figure out a way to twist this. I'm like, okay, dude, I'll bring it up on the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I don't like it. It's good, I think you're actually gonna find it very therapeutic, I think you're gonna get a lot of value from it.

I look forward to talking to you after the recordings and and bring it I'm gonna try to bring people in Yeah to keep it to keep it real too. So I'm gonna I talked to Johnny this morning I'd love for him to be on it as well because I know he gets it. That's great I'm gonna try having you know, my friend Chuck on here in as part of it too because he works out but he's you know He's he's a pastor. I mean, anything and everything that you're using as a current resource is a great... That's what I mean. All the people that can help me.

Yeah. Of course, if you're having these normal conversations or things that you're doing that's helping you through, please, God, share it. Share it so we all get that insight. I know. I'm excited. I'm excited for it. I think it'll be good.

It's funny, like most stuff that we've done in this business. It's like we don't tend to do anything That's like really great viral shit. It's like, you know say it's like we just have it by the way Everyone's stupid quote. It's not For the business like massively ego-based it's but I mean for the for the trainer who listens and follows us I just I hope that we can continue to be a light or a positive like that you don't have to go viral. You don't have to be the most famous person on the internet. Be yourself, be real, be authentic, be vulnerable and try and provide as much value and serve others and you will

reap the benefits. You will. If you come from you come from that place and, and you know what, it may only be three people beginning and it may only be five people, but over time, uh, you'll impact those three or five people so much more than getting millions of people paying attention to you, uh, no matter what you think or believe or other people tell you. And that when it comes to trying to build a business that has purpose and meaning and a why behind it and value and is going to be successful long term,

that is the formula, it really is. And it's been distorted by all the fame and attention that you see people getting on the internet. All right, I'm gonna change directions, I'm uncomfortable. So, hey, I got, listen, I have put together the most based back by data, the most powerful skin regeneration protocol you could possibly use.

And I say natural because it doesn't require, peptides are amazing, Doesn't require peptides. Everybody doesn't have access to peptides, right? You would have to get a prescription or go gray market if you wanna be risky or whatever. But you can use some compounds that you could buy over the counter. So here's what it looks like.

Use red light therapy, which is the most powerful thing you could do. The data on red light therapy is incredible when it comes to improving the appearance of your skin. So like Juv, our partners at Juv, they're the best that we found. If you use that regularly, by two or three sessions you start to see a difference in the way that your face looks and all that stuff. But use high dose of vitamin C and use glutathione, both of those together with the red light. Oh my, I'm looking at the data with vitamin C and glutathione.

Interesting, because of the antioxidant? Yeah, dude. Oh man. And by the way, glutathione, vitamin C and glutathione have been used by these like high end, and they'll use like an IV, you don't need an IV. You could take vitamin C orally and you could get liposomal glutathione, your body will absorb it as well, you have to take it for a few

days for it to build up. Both of those, their effects on the skin, they're documented. So you do that, use the red light therapy, like what we're talking about here, for anybody who's interested in looking younger, what we're talking about is like two weeks. Like you do this for two weeks, you'll notice a dramatic difference, 14 days. What's considered a high dose of vitamin C and glutathione? Thousand milligrams. Thousand milligrams. Yeah, thousand milligrams, which by the way, people-

Is that of each, glutathione and- No, ah, you know, it slips my mind. Doug, look up a dose of liposomal glutathione. I don't know why it slips me. But yeah, thousand milligrams, one to three thousand milligrams of vitamin C, which you know, you could get like a vitamin C packet and many of them contain that much.

So it's not- Are the chewables okay? Chewables fine. Yeah, yeah, chewables. You like all the kid stuff. They still have vitamins, are they all right? The ones that taste like orange. The orange ones, yes.

You can do that. Orange slices. Yeah, so vitamin C, glutathione, liposomal glutathione, and- I've never tried that. I've never tried to like, I use glutathione religiouslyosomal glutathione, and... I'm gonna try that. I've never tried to like, I use glutathione religiously for when I'm cold and sick and I'm trying to get better and stuff like that, and same thing with vitamin C,

but I've never tried to do it when I feel good, and then with using the Juve Light. Yep, yep. Yeah, one pack is 450 milligrams. Yeah, that'll work, so you probably do two of those if you wanna go super high, but a lot of skin creams have now vitamin C and glutathione in them. Do you guys see?

I mean, I know you go to some public, and you're starting to now. The amount of gyms now that have red light therapy? It's crazy. It's become like a. Because it works. It's an option. Yeah, it's great to see.

Almost any of the ones that are like, I mean, what do you, what do you, what? Like Equinox. Yeah, so I'm trying to get. The higher end ones. every, any of the ones that are like, I mean, what do you, what, what, what, uh, like Equinox. Yeah. I'm trying to hire all higher end ones. I mean, not sure, you know, maybe planet fitness, fitness 19 with your $19 membership type of deal. But if you're, you have a nicer spa club type of, like all of them I've seen have now red

light therapy areas, which is really cool. Interesting to see, you know, how much has changed. Doug, I want you to pull up a picture. I gotta show you guys something that I learned just today. I just figured this out today. I'm gonna send you a picture, Doug, of one of the characters from Toy Story. I'm not gonna, you'll-

Is this the old Toy Story? Is this what Justin brought up? No. No, no, no, he's, okay. No, no, I'm gonna say, Doug, I'm gonna text it to you right now. I brought up the new villain. Post it, no, no, no, he's okay. No, no, I'm gonna say tech that Doug I'm gonna text it to you right now brought the new villain. Yeah, no, no, no this you'll recognize it I don't know doesn't have a name. It's not a main character, but as soon as he pulls it up This just okay, so pull up the picture Doug and is it the spork? No, so you guys remember the scene where?

That that that annoying ass neighbor kid finds. And he blows, tears her limbs off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he leaves the room and all of his like monstrosities. Come to life and stuff. Yeah, his little Frankenstein toys come out. Which actor that kind of looked like him, dressed like him for Halloween.

Okay, watch, look at this picture. Because I just learned this today. So how old is Toys? Remember this one? Oh yeah. Remember she walks out? Yep, yep, yep. So for people who aren't watching Remember this one? Oh yeah. Remember she walks out? Yep. Yep. So for people who aren't watching,

there's like three toys that come out. And there's one that has like, looks like Barbie legs. And it looks like a fishing pole. Yes. And it's coming out and the kid's freaking out. Right, right, right. The toys are freaking out. OK.

Do you know what that is? Other than Barbie legs and a fishing pole? Yeah. What it's supposed to be or be? Yeah. It's an inside joke with the Pixar animators. No way. That's a hooker. It's a hooker. Oh my god, oh my god. Like a dad joke. No way. It's a hooker. Of course it is. I just learned this today on social media. I don't know why. I get a kick out of trying to...

Disney does this all the time too. Yeah, because you know they're artists are like, it's for them, right? They're like, what's this? Nobody got it. I didn't get it. Of course not. I mean, it's kind of trying to Disney does this all the time too. Yeah because you know they're artists are like it's for them right? Nobody got it. I didn't get it. Of course not. It's a little bit of a stretch. I was dying when I saw that. That's clever. I wonder how many of those are out there. I just I'm I was just saying right now I was like I bet there's so many like hidden gems like you, you know, sure, this is the neat part of the internet. Now, like we're like that, some of you would never figure that out or find that out because even the person gets lost. And you were in translation or whatever.

But for the internet is, you know, has capable capabilities of something going viral overnight by one person. And so now we all know Easter eggs. Yeah, that's the funny thing. You haven't heard much about that. Like they used to be huge. Like in the nineties, all movies, you go back through and you'd find all these know Easter eggs. Yeah, that's the funny thing. You haven't heard much about that Like they used to be huge like in the 90s and all movies yeah, you go back through and you find all these little Easter eggs or like the way they shot it like the for instance the

The cheesecake would be facing up or then the next shot is facing down and then like it so you see all these inconsistencies You know dorks on the internet would just go crazy well there's a easy ones like we were just watching the animated Lilo and Stitch, because the live action one just came out, which is actually really funny. It's really good.

But we were watching the animated one, and there's a scene, it's real quick, where she's in her bedroom, and in the back there's a poster of another Disney cartoon. So they do that kind of stuff all the time. Yeah, yeah. Super funny. So I got a story to bring up for you. You You'll like this one Justin of this really crazy thing that happened this accident that happened to this guy and

It's pretty wild. So this dude Fell I'm gonna read you the the article in New Zealand This guy What was he doing? He fell between the cab of his truck and the trailer behind it, and he landed on an air hose. The nozzle, so he sat on it, okay? Now it didn't go up his anus,

except first I read this I'm like, oh, it's one of those like, where he's first thing I thought. Yeah, where he's like, where he, you know, he goes to the hospital, he's like, oh, I don't know what happened. Yeah, actually I trained this one doctor, and he told me a story of how guy,

uh, had to get a cucumber removed from his. He blamed it on the, he said, Hey, he said he slipped in the shower. Stop it. I'm like, you're making a salad. But anyway, it didn't go into his, into his anus. It entered into his glute and it was an air hose so it continued to pump air at the rate of a hundred pounds per square inch into his glute what yes dude you know what it did it literally blew air into his body yeah and it separated the fat from his muscle and he felt it

come all the way up until his friends heard him screaming and they were able to shut it off Oh my god. Yeah, dude, it literally inflated. So what we inflated half his body is so weird So he landed on obviously something sharp enough to penetrate into his butt. Yep, and then and it was the thing was already going Yeah, and it's high pressure. It's one of high pressure hoses. Yeah And it literally blew air into his body. And miraculously, it didn't cause anything to explode out. Oh my god. But it literally filled him half of his body with air.

It wasn't like the cartoons where they just turn into a balloon. They float. Boys! No, it caused a lot of damage because it separated the fat from his muscle as the air went in. He didn't have the capability to pull it out? He was, I don't know if he was screaming, he couldn't move, it was too much, so they

had to go off. His buddies went and shut it off. I know bro, I read the article and I was like, oh my god, what a terrible accident. That is crazy. That is so crazy. Terrible accident. I want to hear who had the teen dating thing. That was Justin.

Yeah, I was, you know, because I wanted to bring that up because this is kind of the phase I mean, I know I listen to you guys a lot with your young kids. You get bored Yeah, cuz I'm like, I'm not there. No, but there's just new challenges and and I'm interested especially with my oldest and and he's like he's 15 or 14. He's 15 I love by the way, just you guys know I love hearing even though I'm not in that phase because it gives me a lot to think about well before I get there You know you guys could fuck it up. So I don't fuck So I love hearing that what I got a lot of those

And it's it's tricky because to like I want him to experience dating and I want him to kind of figure all these things out too, like I want him to experience dating and I want him to kind of figure all these things out. But it's interesting to kind of watch and observe and not intervene and not like over coach or like, you know, get too involved. And so I've been kind of doing a little bit more of observing and then maybe when he asks, I'll kind of give him some tips and cues. Yeah. Like the last, and he's had maybe, I'm going to say three or four, uh, that girls that he was trying to date, uh, since he kind of shifted to this new school and he's been kind of meeting new people and stuff. And, uh, the last one, like he was, it was his friend.

And so, you know, they kind of were friends for a while and had a good relationship on that level but then decided that they should try to be boyfriend girlfriend and went through that whole thing and then He found out his so this girl started getting pressure from her friends and this was about the one month mark and Now I didn't I wasn't aware of this and I don't know if you guys have heard of this, this is like a new thing, but like, so TikTok is really like invading a lot of the culture in terms of the overall zeitgeist of like how you do things. Like, so now they're creating like these standards of,

you know, after one month, he should be talking to you this much per day. He should be taking you, you know you to these kinds of places. He should be committed on this type of a level. And there's all these weird rules. And so this poor girl was getting pressure from her friends and then conveying that to him. And he's like, look, I'm full-time student. Also, he's working at becoming better at gymnastics. And so he trains like four or five times a week. And so he's busy.

He's like, I'm busy. I want to hang out, but also, I'm not going to stop doing this. And so there was just no compromise there. And so that just dissipated. And I was proud of him for having that standard and withholding that. I just thought that was proud of him for, you know, having that standard and withholding that. I just thought that was kind of crazy,

like the pressure on the 15-year-old level. That's coming in. Yeah, because teens need way more pressure. Yeah, I know. When it comes to dating. Crazy. Interesting, I didn't even know that was a thing. Yeah.

You know, I've been getting into a lot of the data around relationships outside of marriage. of the data around relationships outside of marriage, and the data is the opposite of what these kids are being taught. It's the exact opposite, bro. Casual sex causes, nobody's happier from it, nobody. Girls especially are not happier from it, but they are encouraged, they're encouraged

that this is what you do. Did you guys, I forgot this was right before vacation and I never shared this on the podcast. Oh my God, you have to listen to the feminist debate on this diaries. I saw that, that's what I'm referring to. Did you watch the whole thing? I watched the whole thing. I watched like half of it. Oh, I watched the whole thing, so good.

Erica Kono, sorry. Until two in the morning. Just clowning on people. Katrina was like, she was like, oh my, she wakes up and she's like, you still, I was like, yeah, I got sucked in. It was such a good, great dialogue. I mean, three brilliant women all consider themselves feminists from different perspectives

and talking about the whole journey of feminism, all the pluses and minuses and debating that amongst each other. They all spoke to each other well and respected. Very good, good, healthy debates on there. And to your point that you're making right now, this was one of the things that was a little bit in contention that it was really, I mean, I can't recommend, this is a great listen for everybody. It was on diary of the CEO. It was Erica Komisar. And I forget the other two, two girls because we had Erica so

I know her. But what a good conversation. Yes. Really, really. Highly recommended. Yeah, highly, highly recommended. Very, very intelligent, brilliant women breaking down and debating this, and I just loved how well they all communicated.

I like what Jordan Peterson says around that. It's like when you don't take another person seriously in a relationship, dating or whatever, you are simultaneously also not taking yourself. Oh yeah. You know? And so, yeah, because the culture says like you gotta date a lot, you and the data doesn't match that, it just doesn't. The data shows that the most satisfied relationships, including sexually, are older couples who have been together forever, who have had very few partners.

The best ones reporting, of course this is general information, right? There's always cases outside of this, were the ones with that, they were the only partners that they ever had. So, and I wish that was taught more. Not like in a shameful way, because as a teenager, you got all these hormones and you know,

I know how hard that is, but I wish it was taught like, well here's what the, this is what actually the data shows. That's what's tricky, because yeah, I know that is, and that's the optimal ideal, and what's tricky, because yeah, I know that is, and that's the optimal ideal. Um, and that's what, you know, you, you want to have those kind of like standards and parameters of like, Hey, you don't have to, you know, go the way of the world. You don't have to do the what's expected, but at the same time, like they have to come to those conclusions themselves and you have to be able to model that.

But, um, too, it's like, it's difficult. It's difficult because just like everything else, like having to kind of turn them loose. And then like, when do you like allow them to interact? Or where do you put like boundaries and parameters on? And it's like late at night, it's like you find environments where like this is gonna be a problem. And that's where I like sort of environments where this is gonna be a problem,

and that's where I sort of start drawing lines of environments, parties, things like that. My wife is reading this book, I'm so sorry, I don't know the title of it, it was so good, and it talked about the different stages of parenting, and the teenage years is a coaching stage. So when they're real young, it's like, don't do that, do this, so much more strict.

When they're teenagers, hopefully by then you've built such a relationship to where you're come to you otherwise you get to overbearing oh yeah that's already happening I guess I'm throwing out these all the hypotheticals that go through my yeah yeah of course you know I was I was in a comment on the the parenting dilemma that you have that we all all have as a parent of like, where do I insert myself? Where do I tell them or coach or whatever the case may be? It reminds me of what I teach a lot with sales, the difference between a good closer and a

great closer. When you are trying to get your kid to do something, you're closing them on your ideas. You're selling them on why they should or shouldn't do whatever the thing is. And sure, as parents, we can go in there and tell them what to do or point out what they did wrong, but you're far more effective if you can pull them in and get them to ask you questions around that.

And so I think about that a lot of, you know, obviously I'm more at the phase of telling because of my kids are young, but I do know that there will become a transition where it's like my goal then becomes can I get him to ask me because if I can just get him to ask me then I can share with him my own experience with the studies say all the things and I think that's just far more effective to persuading them you're gonna make the right decision. This book was really good because it says that

these different stages your kids gonna move through them, whether you like it or not. So they're gonna be in the coaching phase, and if you haven't moved out of the like, I'm gonna tell you what to do phase, it's behind. You're gonna lose them. I mean, the key is this, my wife says this all the time, that the most important thing with your kids

is your relationship with them. It's more important than anything else because you're gonna know your kids way longer as an adult than you will as a child. So if you build a good relationship with them, that's gonna last forever. If they come out of your house feeling like I'm free, I'm out of this tyranny, or worse, nobody loved me,

you've lost all of them. So along those lines, I learned something else here. I learned something that I was doing wrong with my parenting that I love when my paradigm gets shattered on something. And I have a habit of when Max gets frustrated or he's trying to tell me something he wants and he's starting to whine or get frustrated with that is I say I'd give him the prompt, use your words, use your words, right? Use yours. And I'm trying, I thought what I was doing was, you know, trying to

help him communicate and find the right words. And I thought I was doing the right thing. What I follow this page that does really cool stuff, and basically the neuropsychology of raising children into your point about their stages in the early stages is telling them later on. Later on becomes coaching. And I'm obviously still in the telling him stage. And what I'm doing by telling him, use your words, is I'm actually training his brain to actually go,

oh, I whine first, then my dad prompts me this. He's relying on your prompt. Yes. So he's relying on me to do that, when in actuality, what I should be doing is actually giving him the words you model it Yes, it's called modeling. Yes. So he has a he's he's frustrated He's trying to communicate something like that and instead of me trying to encourage him to use his words I give him the words. Yep, you know yet daddy, please, you know daddy, please

Can I do that like and tell him literally give him the words and then we cut out the whining phase? Because part of the the whining that that's just a natural reaction of him trying to find those words I'm trying to do that and me prompting again like use your words and he gave other examples of what's up Because not everybody says use your words. I know that's the one I use which is why it hit home for me But what you should do in those situations as you literally just repeat the statement works so good It does my wife It works so good. It does. My wife does this so well, so like an example would be like,

my kid would be like, oh, I want another lollipop. And then what you do is you, instead of telling them, you model it, so, but, but can I please have another lollipop, and then you give it to them. Or you answer the question. And they just start to, and then what they do is they repeat it. Yes.

It's weird, they'll just all of a sudden say it. And then they skip the whining piece. And so, great, great hack. Isn't that cool? I love, I mean, my favorite stuff to read is neuropsychology, and I'm fascinated with children's neuroscience right now, and I think that's just, and I've loved, as I've read and come across some of

the stuff, as I watching my apply it and then seeing it unfold is really cool. It's really cool to see that. We do have a lot, I know genetics play a big role and I know every kid is different and all those things, but I mean, we influence a lot. There's, I don't know what the breakdown is, nature versus nurture,

but I definitely, I believe that- It's not a little bit. Yeah, I believe we have a lot. I believe a lot. And I think a lot of us as parents like to tell ourselves that, oh, well, they're just that, or, oh, it's just this way when it's like, I mean, they're trying to figure it all out.

They're just these little sponges running around, and yes, some of them tend to react certain ways faster or need more of this or less of that, but all in all, you are shaping that. You know what's crazy about this too, again, you're going back to the data with this, two things are important for a child, especially when they're young,

but as they get older is love and structure, and if you take one of those out, the results are worse. So it's just love, it's worse. You know what the worst is? Just structure. No love. That produces really bad results. If you grow up in a house where there's no love

and it's all discipline, oh, that's actually one of the worst. This is where I think the saying comes from. Love conquers all. I mean, it's such a, like, I mean, bless my wife's heart. I mean, this is where I've comes from love conquers all yeah, I mean it's such a like now I mean, you know bless my wife's heart I mean this is where I've learned so much from her like she comes from that place really well like that's what we do first We come from love love love love first and then all the others you want to hear another crazy study This is related to religion, but I think it applies the the the the kids that are most likely to follow in the faith of their children, what

do their parents do? They've got studies on this. You know what it is? Parents who apologize and repent. When you're a parent and you mess up and you go to your kid and you say, hey, look, I'm sorry. I got really mad. I'm sorry.

Well, because then they can accept a repentant God or team. Yeah, dude conversation you maintain that kind of relatability and like accessibility Otherwise you're not accessible and that's how it was for me grown-ups tar It's hard when it's always being told to you and and you don't really have that kind of invitation You know because if you if you if you are admitting my faults, and here's how I could have handled it better. You gain respect. You don't lose it.

Yeah. They want to come to you and explain more. So I don't know if I shared that, the John Delaney interview that he had with the girl that I know we've talked about many times. She has that great TED Talk. Her big viral TED Talk is the one you're communicating right now, which is-

Oh, Dr. Becky. Yes, yeah. Yeah, John Deloney's interview with her was phenomenal, but her big TED Talk is one of the most powerful things that we can do as parents. It's crazy if you think about it because you're not perfect. Like, I don't think anybody thinks that, well,

if you do, then you're a narcissist, but nobody's perfect. Your kid knows you're not perfect. Everybody knows this. I can look back at my parents later. You're really smart. So why don't you show them? It's so, it's so.

That humility. It is so. It doesn't reduce your authority. It's so powerful. It is something, I mean, I watched the TED Talk a long, long time ago, and it's something that we've modeled in our house, and I watch Max do it.

Like, he does it. He makes mistakes, and he. You know what he probably also does it. He makes mistakes and he- You know what he probably also does? He probably, cause I see this with my two little ones. If my younger one hits my older one or vice versa and they're super mad and then the other one apologizes, they accept it right away. Right away, because usually that doesn't happen.

Little kid's like, I don't care if you're sorry, you hurt me. Right away my son will say, it's okay. Thank you, and then they're over it Yeah, and why did they learn that because mom and dad right apologize all the time mess up. We mess up Dude, I have a speed of care kids and stuff like that So this is my first one. I'm sure you guys I wonder if you guys remember your first so My son is Learning and knows how to play a game

that took me back to my childhood that was absolutely one of my favorite games I ever played. And he now knows how to play. So what a cool, like guess who? Oh yeah. I love guess who. Really, you just start playing that? Oh, that's our number one.

Yeah, well, he's, I mean, he's, he's good enough that he can beat me. Like this is the first, like he's, he's never been out. He like, I introduced that game probably two years ago and it was like, we weren't playing the game, let's be honest. We were looking at characters and it was, we weren't playing the game.

We weren't playing the game now. Like where we, right now, before he goes to bed now, we play two or three games before bed every night and he beat me three out of three games last night. So I absolutely love that he's able to beat me. And I haven't had that yet. We have not been able to play something that he is there cognitively enough

that he could actually beat me at something. And so watching him do that. And then I had forgot that was a game that I loved playing as a kid. I was obsessed with that game. And so seeing him playing it and doing it and then doing it with him is like such a blast to do that. And they have, so if you don't know this, like the guess who did you know collaborations

with everything you can think of. Oh, so there's more? Oh, bro. Because I haven't used the same one. Oh, bro. Were you that way? So I just bought for his birthday is coming up. We already have guess who Mario.

So it's all the Mario characters. That's enough. I got to get I just bought guess who Star Wars because that's our other thing we're into. So like so it makes it even more fun because he's obsessed the Mario characters. Okay, that's enough. I got to get these. I just bought Guess Who Star Wars because that's the other thing we're into. So it makes it even more fun because he's obsessed with the characters from Mario. And so, you know, it's fun to watch him do that. I got to talk to you guys about some testimonials about Z-Biotics. The testimonials that come in from our listeners who use Z-Biotics is hilarious. I haven't read those in a while.

I won't drink ever again without Z-Biotics. hilarious. I won't drink. I haven't read those in a while. I won't drink ever again without Z-Biotics. That's what I keep saying. That was me. I will never drink again without Z-Biotics. Which takes me to this. I don't know why Z-Biotics hasn't done this. Why aren't they going to bars? They are.

They are in some. Are they? Yeah, yeah, I actually saw. Cause that's money. Dude, so I don't know if you saw this in our forum. I would have been handing them out like hotcakes. Somebody in our forum just tried it recently for the first time and they were like,

oh my god. And then of course underneath it were all the other people that were like, yeah me too. It's like everyone started going on and then somebody made that comment of like, oh man I wish there were bars and then people started posting like, oh no they're in this one and they're in this one. Because it's money for the bar. They're not in a lot but I know they're in a couple places. Yeah, buy it and then you drink, and then you feel better, so you probably enjoy yourself a little. You would think from a bar, it would be a brilliant strategy, because it doesn't make you drink any less. No, you feel better the day after.

For them, it's in their best interest to do that, but I don't know why that hasn't been like a massive campaign to try and get in there. I don't know what the conflict maybe is, why it's so good. Probably just time and energy, because they're so focused on product development and the science. Yeah.

That's probably real marketing. I think what I would think, like you have to really get in there. Bars, talk to people. So my theory, okay, just my business brain says it's coming from a place of scarcity. And just like some marketing people that we know and stuff like that, they look at something like that

and they go like, that's $13 they didn't spend on a $13 drink. And so it's taking its root. Oh, the bar? Yes. Oh, that's not gonna do like that's $13 they didn't spend on a $13 drink and so it's taking its right. Oh the bar? Yes. Oh that's not gonna do that. Yeah I guess you're right. You're probably right. That's exactly how. Why would anybody spend $13 on this and they're not gonna buy him another drink? I see. So and that you know oh the average person only has $26 in their pocket there's a good chance they would buy two drinks for $13 but now they have to buy a Z-biotic and then a drink that's less money we make because we bar's gonna make more money, that's what I think. I mean, yeah, I agree too, but people operate from that logic a lot.

Marketing people. I think you can sell it at a bar. Hey, take this, this is your pre-alcohol drink. Would you like a pre-alcohol drink with your drink? I mean, that's you selling it. I think if they sell it individually, I think it sells. Justin's right though, it's Grilla Market.

He worked in a bar, and that's what it is, right? You wanna get stuff in the bars, you gotta go to each one. You gotta get in there. Well, yeah, all the bars do that. They're in a bar, and that's what it is, right? You wanna get stuff in a bar, you gotta go to each one. You gotta get in there. Well yeah, all the bars do that. They're not gonna pay attention to you. What are those girls called? They're like, they do that at bars.

Cartel waitresses. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. What are you talking about? No, every bar you've ever been to or club, there's always. Oh, that like works for one of the companies. Yes, there's always like.

Like Smirnoff. Yeah, Smirnoff, and there's two hot girls, and they're passing out shots of it, and like's that's and they're promoting yes they're promoters but what are those they also use cocktail waitresses to do that yeah so promoters yeah I guess the promoters yeah the actual it's normally people outside of the bar we I told you back in the day like even Starbucks yes promo girls thank you okay yeah yeah that's a good thing sure I don't know the title yeah it was before your time?

Sorry, ladies. How far back? You go that far back? I'm old school. You're supposed to be our referent or bar guy. Yeah, come on, guys. Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, they would literally come in and give us free product.

And so as you get free product, then they kind of have a trial run. We had this with Bailey's, and we had this with even Starbucks was doing a run where they had like their Liqueur they just came up with and they wanted to test it out and it's like, so you give these little shots of it and we would make drinks and they teach us kind of how to

make drinks with it. So there was a little bit of like they'd come in and kind of like teach you all of like, you know, what it all entails and like how to make them and all this stuff and then come back a month later and see how it went, like how the customers liked it, all this stuff, and then we would decide whether or not we'd carry it if it was popular enough.

And so that was kind of like the process. I also think part of the problem is that Zbiotics is probably afraid, they were a startup company and so that's a lot of money. But I tell you what, if I think you're going to get customers like that, this is how I would do is I would just chalk it up. We're going to lose $100,000 on product, but whatever that number of Zbiotics is, and it's like for the next three months or whatever even in a month we're going to go every Friday Saturday night you know how bars they intentionally

line people up to make it look so literally just hand them all out there like drink this before you drink your drink and then and then you literally just chalk it up that that was a hundred thousand dollar investment we gave it all away over the course of however long to and we got out marketing campaign and then let's just see what happens and I bet you to your guys point that like you do it with there's Because I don't know what the percentage of people because we have some people they're like, oh, I don't really notice a difference But then you have people they're like, oh my god, that's the vast majority. Yeah. Nobody ever says any negative It's always like I didn't really notice a difference or it's oh my god, and I would say most people go. Oh my god Oh, I hate it when I drink.

I would do a massive St. Patrick's Day event. Do it on a holiday when you know everybody's getting aggressively drinking. So like as many bars as I possibly could and like almost like, because then it would be memorable because most people get way too out of hand on like certain holidays like that

and it's like you know if you can provide that ahead of time, it'd be like, they would remember that. For sure. Most children's multivitamins are just candy, and they don't have the right nutrients or enough of the nutrients to make a difference for your kids. Look, if you wanna give your kids candy,

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Try them out, get 50% off your first order. Go to hiahealth.com, that's H-I-Y-A health.com forward slash mind pump. Again, that gets you 50% off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Brad from North Carolina. What's up, Brad? How you doing, Brad?

Hey, what's going on, guys? How can we help you? Hey, thanks for having me back on. Quick question for you today. My ribs, lower ribs have kind of always stuck out more than I think most people's. And I was just kind of chalked it up to genetics as my dad has it looks like my son's his does that as well and the leaner I've gotten over the years it's

become more noticeable and lately I've heard people refer to it as rib flare and maybe that it is correctable and actually fixable so just curious. Now yeah it's not really you can't do much for it, but you can strengthen the muscles that support the rib cage like the intercostals, the serratus, strengthen your core. Typically, I mean unless it's really bad, it doesn't produce a functional issue. It's just an aesthetic thing. Now it can get really, really bad, but that I believe is called what's pectus covertum when it can be really,

where the ribcage actually caves in at the top as well and causes rib flare. And that's a whole different thing, but there's not much you could do at your age to change the shape of your ribcage with exercise or anything like that, it's pretty much that. I feel like mine got a lot better as I got older and I just developed my core.

Like it was, I had this, my left side, just my, you would see my left rib, bottom rib, poking out when I got older and I just developed my core. Like it was, I had this, my left side, just my, you would see my left rib, bottom rib poking out when I got lean. And I was like that since I was a kid. But over years of like really just working on posture and core and building the core area, I felt like really did that. So it's helped.

Like it's, I can, forever can tell. Like if I feel like my abdominal area, I can feel my rib cage on my left side, feels like it's just pokes out a little more on that one side. And it used to be really obvious when I was a kid. It's not so much that as I've gotten older, and I just think that's because I've built a lot of muscle around it that it doesn't show as much. And I think that's probably the best advice. And I mean, it's not causing any problems, right? You don't have pain from it or discomfort or anything like that, it's just, it's more aesthetic, right?

Yeah, for the most part, I used to surf a lot and that was always pretty, pretty sore afterwards just from laying on your board all day. Yeah, because you're, because you're, you're pressing on it. Yeah. I mean, if you look at the rib cage, right? So this, you know, starts at the spine, comes around, attaches there at the sternum in between the ribs or is connective tissue and muscle.

And so to an extent you can strengthen that and, you know, of course, work on posture and stuff like that, and that can help a little bit change the shape, but it's not this radical change. Now, if you're a child, you can definitely have influence over the development of your rib cage because everything's still growing. Everything's still quite malleable, but as an adult, not really, not a lot. But I would say things that...

Wouldn't hurt to work on it. No, like working on thoracic mobility, working on rotation, strengthening the core, dumbbell pullovers with deep breath in. Intrinsically bracing. Yeah, that kind of stuff can make a difference in terms of stability. Gotcha.

Anything specific on building maybe up the obliques kind of to hide it a little bit or? Rotational exercises are great, man. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, anything that has resistance with rotation is gonna be great for developing them. And then suitcase carries will also help strengthen the lateral stability and help build that out.

So like holding presses too. Yeah, back presses. Do you have our program Old Time Strength? That'd be a great program. No, I don't. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that'll build up your rates. Perfect, yeah.

That's a great one. Let's send that to you. Cool. Yeah, that'd be great. I just finished aesthetics, or excuse me, anabolic. Yeah, so Old Time Strength is very different. Great one to you. Cool. Yeah, that'd be great. I just finished the static. So, or excuse me, anabolic. Yeah. You'll so old time strings. Very different. Oh, great one to follow up.

This is how it'll address a lot of those needs though. Yeah. Especially obliques and QL and all that. Yep. Sweet. I appreciate it guys. You got it. All right, right on.

Thank you. Thanks y'all. Back in the day, I had this really bad as a kid. Yeah. I mean, even as a young this really bad. As a kid. Yeah, I mean even as a young. Like really protruding out. Yeah, yeah. I mean I can still feel it to this day. It's like, but I have, as I worked on posture

and I built a lot of muscle around it, you guys don't notice. I do still, I can still feel it. I noticed it, we call you Ribby when you're not. When I was young, it was like, it was actually a big insecurity of mine. That's why I was like, right away, I get it, because it would bother me when I was lean and I'd be on the beach and stuff,

you'd just see that left side, you'd just see that bottom of my rib just poking out. Didn't bother me other than the look of it, you know what I'm saying, that's what bothered me. Yeah, back in the day, they would sell the dumbbell pullover as a rib expanding exercise to give you a big rib cage. Cause they, for some reason they prized the big rib cage to make you look bigger.

And so that's how they sold pullovers. That's how Arnold sold it. That's how all the bodybuilders in the sixties and the fifties and forties, that's why they did them. And there may be some truth to that because you can get so tight with the intercostals that your rib cage doesn't move and flex very well when you breathe in or do anything else. But it's really just about working on mobility and how much that'll actually change the shape.

I don't think it's a ton. Our next caller is Rachel from Florida. Hi Rachel. Hello. So long time no see. My husband and I made the pilgrimage out to visit you guys back in 2022 when you hosted the live events at your studios. We were some of the VIPs, so it's been a long time, but it was

great meeting you guys then and great to talk to you again. Pete Slauson Thank you, Rachel. Rachel Slauson Yeah. So, I will jump in. Well, first of all, thank you for everything that you do. You guys are the best, but I think you already know that. So, I'm going to dive right in. And I was rereading my question and I thought it kind of didn't make a lot of sense. So I'm just going to kind of condense it down. I am what I would consider a pretty experienced lifter. I've been lifting for 10 years. I've run all the MAPS programs, literally every single one,

except for PED and I think MAPS anabolic advanced. So I've done it all, I try to change it up, you know, do more of what you're not doing and I feel like I've stalled probably the last couple of years when it comes to building muscle and I know that's something that just happens as you lift longer and longer, it's harder and harder to add muscle and I that, but I'm just wondering, I guess, if it really comes down to in the end more programming or more diet when it kind of gets to be that level where you've been lifting for a long time, you're mixing it up, but you're just kind of on repeat a little bit, if that makes sense. And I just don't know how to move the needle,

of on repeat a little bit if that makes sense and I just don't know how to move the needle or what would move the needle more doing more of kind of a bulk and focusing more on diet or focusing on programming or both I just want your opinion well you because you already do a really good job on the programming that's probably not where it's at and I'm looking at because you gave us more information about where your calories are at. My thing would be, you probably need to push the bulk a little harder and that would be where it's at and get comfortable with that. That's what happens to a lot of my experienced female clients that are in this kind of a similar boat as you are, is that can I push myself to a calorie intake that I've never done really consistently for long enough to break through that I don't like the way I'm looking because I'm getting bigger or bulkier

and then not reversing out? I would think that that's where the answer lies for you. Now, granted, I think you're in incredible shape, but if you were saying, hey, I really want to build more, then I think that's where the answer lies is more in the nutrition and pushing the calories, but simultaneously moving the program. So if you do tend to lean more to, are you more like of a maps aesthetic or a maps anabolic girl? Well, whichever one you are, I'm going to maybe steer you into a program that's different, quite a bit different than that, like maybe old timey or strong, and then really push the calories and push them for a while.

Yeah, and here's, Adam's on point 100%, because as I'm reading your question that you wrote in, your diet's dialed, your average 1800 to 2000 calories a day, you're 20% body fat, you have a bit of a fear of gaining body fat, so it depends on the person, but in your case, it's diet. Now, if you really wanna see some gains, you want to see some gains, someone who's experienced like you, what I would do is I would have you do MAPS Anabolic Advanced and

I'd have you bump your calories by about 300 to 400 calories. Okay. Really? So you would go to like 2500, you think? 2400, 2500? 2400. At least that. I think at least that.

I'm looking at your, I mean, you're're in good shape you've been training for a long time I I mean if we if you were my client I'd have you up to three thousand plus calories by now like you could yeah Unless you're sedentary and I don't know unless you're somebody who just doesn't move all day long But you don't look like somebody who doesn't move all day long I'm actually a personal trainer and so I move a ton I think that might sometimes be what I don't take into account.

100%. 100%. If you're training clients and you're moving around that much plus you train the way you train, that's low, those are low calories. It's unhealthy, it's good. Like obviously you've maintained a great healthy physique, but if we want to put on some muscle, I got to get you up. Yeah. I bet you could support 3000 calories. Yeah. a great healthy physique, but if we want to put on some muscle, I got to get you up.

I bet you could support 3000 calories. Yeah. You're 20% body fat. How tall and how much taller and how much you weigh if you don't want me to ask you? I'm five. Yeah, no, I'm five too and I weigh about 130 consistently. Yeah. I mean, just out of sensitivity to your fear of gaining body fat, I mean, you could start

with 400 calorie bump and then again, halfway through bump it again. And I think you're just going to see gains and I think you're just going to see gains. I think you're just going to see strength and muscle. I think Maps Out of Bulk Advanced is a great program to follow while doing that and I think you're going to blow yourself away. And I'm curious too, I guess another slight fear that I have and I've read a lot on, I'm part of the forum and I read all the time on that and I am 43 years old so I don't have any real symptoms of perimenopause or dear god there's so much out there when the

hormone start to change and i get a little bit fearful that if i were to bulk in at somebody fat which i didn't completely understand is just a part of bulking like you're never going to get away with not adding a little bit right i guess i would be fearful that it would be harder to get rid of that body fat once you wanted to kind of do a cut and reveal that muscle just simply the fact that I am

a little bit older. Right now I don't have a problem with that, but I obviously am kind of under eating. So two things, two things. Too low of calories is much more likely to trigger menopause than too high of calories in an active person who strength trains. So if you want to trigger hormone changes that are more para-menopausal, what you do is you over train and you under eat.

And that'll stop your period, that'll cause lots of different things to happen. So that's number one. Number two, if you bump your calories 400 calories, you're not gonna gain all this crazy body fat and then be like, oh my God, what did I do? That's not gonna happen. You're gonna have plenty of time to assess what's going on.

And I'm going to tell you what's going to happen. You're just going to get stronger. Yeah. You're just going to get stronger and you're the muscle. That's right. And you're going to gain some muscle. Awesome. Okay. Yeah. I think that was my primary. And I kind of knew the answer. Again, most people already know when they call in, but I just wanted to, one other question too, I guess, with the fear of doing all, again, I'm a coach, I get the benefit of hiring someone to kind of work you through the uncomfortable parts. Would you recommend hiring something like hiring a nutrition coach to get me to that level because I have this weird fear and it's hard for me to do it on my own.

I would love for one of our trainers to take you through this. If you're open to that, I would love for them. Because honestly, that is the only thing, like if you were my client, I have no question, I bet you have great form, you understand. Actually, like the one thing will be the psychological part and it would be me just talking to you every week or every other week going, you're doing great, Rachel. And you're going like, I don't know, Adam, I feel this way. And I'll be like, no, you're doing great. Like just that person as a second pair of eyes, letting you know that you're doing great. Because otherwise we mind fuck ourselves. We're all guilty of this. And so I think there's a lot of value in hiring the coach just literally for that more than anything else, just to be a second pair of eyes. I mean, I did it when I was competing. I didn't need a coach to tell me what to do. It was more like, I just need a second pair of eyes. It lets me know like, no, no, no, you're, you're

doing fine. You're good. And I tell you what, it's, it's worth it. So yeah, I'd love for you to let one of our coaches to take you through that process. Okay, perfect. So yeah, mind pump coaches. I'm not exactly sure how to get in touch with you. We'll, we'll, we'll reach out to you. Don't even worry about it. You'll hear from someone today. Yeah, we'll send them over. Okay. Yeah. Then I think that, and I guess one final thing, if I have you guys on the phone. I'm just kind of curious too,

my husband and I were debating a little bit. Power lift is by far my favorite program. I have always loved just building strength and really kind of working through that and setting new PRs and that's always my favorite thing. What do you think about that in terms of just raw muscle building? My husband was saying, you know,

more about hypertrophy like MAPS, anabolic advanced, would be better for just strict muscle building. What do you think about that? Is that, I don't know. We're splitting here. Yeah, we are splitting. Those are two great programs to put on muscle. If you're like, if you just, all you ever do is power lift

and moving to, you know, a different rep range, bodybuilding style. Oh, it's possible. Yeah, but I like anabolic advanced for you because you haven't done it yet. Yeah. You said that was one of the programs you haven't done. Yeah, but I like Anabolic Advance for you because you haven't done it yet. You said that was one of the programs you haven't done. Yeah, it's literally the only one we own that I've never done.

Yeah, and so do that with a surplus and you're gonna see some. I love that too because especially, one, you've done the other one. Two, this is also where Sal introduces training to failure in there too. So there's that ability. So it's very different.

Anabolic Advance is very unique. It's a deload week. So I think there's a lot of value in you training that one. I love that ability. So it's very different. Anibis is very unique. So I think there's a lot of value you training that one. I love that idea. Both just so for the discussion with husband, those are both great programs for that goal. Yep. Okay, perfect. Yeah, so it's more diet than it is programming.

And that's kind of what I thought. For sure. We got you though. We'll have someone call you today. Okay, awesome. Thanks guys. Thank you. All right.

For sure. Easy. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, she's got that much muscle, that strong, that lean, 18 to 200 thousand. Trainer probably taking 15,000 steps a day. Yeah her body is just she's maintaining is what she's doing. She's her body's been able to run off of what she's eating but if you want to add more lean tissue you got to provide your body with the resources to do so. Otherwise, it can be very, very difficult, which is okay if you don't mind maintaining. So this was, okay, these are almost,

she said five two, right? Yeah, five, 430 pounds. This is Melissa Wolf's numbers, literally. Like 130, five two, this many calories when we started. We got all the way up to 3,200 calories. She hit stage in like almost single digit body fat at 2,400 calories. That was on stage, 2,400 calories. She hit stage in like almost single digit body fat at 2400 calories. That was on stage, 2400 calories.

So I took her from 18 to 2000 kind of maintenance. She was always a fit girl. So it's not like I radically changed her body fat percentage and all that. But it was literally this, was the getting her all the way up to over 3000 calories. Bringing her back down, she hit stage in peak week at 2400 calories.

Our next caller is Desi from Utah. Hi, Desi. Hey, Desi. Hello. Hello. How can we help you? So nervous, holy cow. Okay, I'm 44 years old. I've kept active my whole life, counted calories on and off.

I've known I need to lift weights for years, especially as I age, but just could never make myself do it. I found your podcast at the end of last year and finally, thanks to you guys, I've started lifting weights. I've been doing Maps 15 since January. I love the strength. I love the muscle that I'm gaining.

At the same time, also thanks to you guys, I've started increasing my calories to see how high I could get and I got up to 2150 without gaining weight, but decided to cut because that just felt like so much food and I wanted to see what a cut could do. Right before the cut, I was able to do an incline dumbbell press at 30 pounds, which I started at 15, so that felt awesome. But then my next two sets were at 25, which was fine. But then I was in my cut and I couldn't even do two presses at 30 pounds. So I didn't know if that was normal in a deficit.

And how do you decide how much weight to lift? Do you just maintain? I think I was just used to like increasing my weight the whole time I was doing it. Um, and then my next question was just, could I do maps 15 for the rest of my life and be okay, or do I need to switch things up? I love the program, love that I can fit it in my life, but I don't know if that would not be the best. Great questions, Debbie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. First off, it is normal to notice a decline in strength when you reduce your energy intake. However, your calories didn't get very high and then you cut them down, I'm assuming around 1500 is probably where you went, which is really low. Yeah. Okay. That's really low. So how tall are you and how much do you weigh if you don't mind me asking? I'm 5'7 and I'm like 135.

Yeah, that's really low. So you're going to see substantial strength loss going that low with your calories. Someone like you, strength training over time, I mean, your cut would be around 2,000 calories, not your bulk, okay? But it's a slow process. You don't need to force it. You don't need to slam yourself with food. You just slowly allow the muscle building and metabolism boost to work,

and continue to pursue strength little by little over time. And what this looks like is slowly you can increase your calories, then you can stay at the same calories for a while, then you can increase it. And you just take your time doing this. As far as your question around MAPS-15 is concerned, it's a very well balanced program. So you could do it indefinitely.

However, you're probably better off switching at some point just for some variety and for something different And I think if you like that kind of programming the you know 15 minute a day type of deal Then I think maps 15 performance would be a wonderful program to toggle back and forth. That's where it goes Okay, I think I even like that I don't mind that you did the cut for a little bit. In fact, how long have you been doing the cut for? Like maybe a month and a half.

Okay, so this is what we, if I was training you and we got up to a high calorie, like for you, which was 2150 and you'd never been there before and you were curious what it would look like, I would probably put you on a low cut. I probably would have only done it for like two weeks or so and then gone right back up again. So everything you did, I think is great.

I just, I think you could go right back, but this time go up to 2,200 calories or 2,250 and do that for a while and see how long you can stay there and not putting it, and watch your strength come right back and you'll be feeling great again. And ultimately the goal would, for us to kind of keep doing that where we get to a calorie intake you've never been at for a while,

embrace the strength, stay there for a while and while is like two months, then do a little cut for two weeks and then go right back again. And just keep every time you go back you try and bump the calories a little bit more, a little bit more until you and I have got to a place where you're eating 2,800 calories and now when you cut, it's 22, 2,300 calories and you feel satiated, you feel stronger, which is going to be one of the benefits of getting your calorie intake is that you could be in a cut and still have pretty good strength. 1,500 is really low and you're definitely gonna feel that when you're lifting and so it's totally normal that you felt that. It's not bad, it's just

it's expected and so ultimately the goal would be to keep kind of doing what you're doing and get those calories up and just why and over time you're gonna just continue to love the way it continues to shape and build your body. Yeah, now just so you understand the little two week cuts that Adam's talking about, the purpose of that would be to help you with the appetite part. If you feel like, oh my God, I'm eating so much food, a two week cut will help stimulate that again.

But here's the other part of this though that I want you to examine. Oftentimes people who've counted calories or always watched their weight for most of their life or have been very aware of it I should say, whenever they get to a certain point that feels uncomfortable, it's not because it's too much food,

they're just a bit fearful. Like, oh, I think I'm eating too much. Maybe I shouldn't be eating this much because they're not used to feeding their body. So that's a question I would want you to ask yourself through this process. Is this really feel like I'm stuffing myself or does it really feel like I'm just afraid? I'm just afraid of going this high.

If you don't have MAPS Performance 15, I'll send that to you and those two programs, you can go back and forth for the rest of your life. Yeah. Okay, that would be awesome. Yeah, I don't have that one. I love that choice for you, by the way. I think what you're doing is great. Slowly increasing calories, running a 15 program like that.

I'm excited to see what happens over the next five to six months. And by the way, you have, if you started back in January, and if you do this well, you've got some nice strength gains for the next two years at least Where you're gonna, yeah, now it's not gonna be super linear, but you're gonna see yourself Generally over time get stronger. So if you went from 15 to 30, it's gonna be really exciting to see where you end up You know a couple years from now, you'll be doing things that you didn't think possible, which is pretty cool Thanks, that sounds awesome. Yeah, I'm excited Increasing my calories good Keep'm excited. Doing, doing great. I'll go back to increasing my calories.

Good. Keep it up. You're doing great. Thank you. All right, Desi. Appreciate it. Yeah. Bye bye. It's, I get why, you know, people are afraid of that.

Uh, but oftentimes like, Oh, I feel like I'm eating, you know, this is too much food for me. The question is, does it really feel like it's too much food or is it the fear? No, it's a great, it's a great way to challenge her thinking around that. Cause that's so true. A lot of people, it's not, it's just that it's too much food or is it the fear? No, it's a great way to challenge her thinking around that because that's so true. A lot of people it's not, it's just that it's a lot for them they've never had that. And anytime in the past maybe they have, it's like turned into body fat and they freak out

that it's like, oh god, this is gonna unfamiliar area. Well, what it feels like is somebody who's always been super hyper aware of eating too much, they feel more comfortable with the empty feeling. And so to them that's like anything other than that doesn't feel good. Just like for me, which was the reverse, I always stuffed myself trying not to be a skinny kid and going without feeling like I had all this food in my belly was like, Oh, I'm eating too little.

So it was a bit of a distorted connection to how I felt. Our next caller is Jim from Australia. Welcome back sir. What's going on Jim? Okay boys, okay. Okay. I only have one question, okay? Okay.

Who was the, I was going to say sadistic, but let's just say enthusiastic author of phase three day one of aesthetic. Oh, that's the, that's the pull.'s, is that the pull up in the, uh, back and forth? There's a bunch of supersets. Hi, super. That was probably Sal's idea. No, definitely. For sure. Sal's idea. How'd you like these are the aesthetic guys? Yeah. So yeah, definitely not Justin's idea. It was either Sal or I probably

thought you're going to go matrix lunges. Yeah. Oh shit. Here we go. Well, thank you boys. Thank you. I mean, I went through your minds when you thought, yeah, let's program six supersets, one after the other. How we go with that man boys. I mean, I've had some tough routines, but you guys humbled me. Absolutely humbled me absolutely humbled me Anyway, just a quick recap You know, I'm 67 been training since I was 16 celebrated half a century of holding weight above my chest

Bulk at that time was using a four-day split Gathered from magazines and stuff from Frank Zane Lou Ferringo Arnie all the greats of my day. So I was feeling confident and arrogant that I thought I knew what I was doing. But I sought your advice as the volume in Anabolic wasn't the right fit for me. You suggested aesthetic. Again, thank you boys for bringing me closer to hell. That was a very interesting experience. Anyway, you asked for my thoughts

and I'm gonna keep this short because it's 3 a.m. here and last time I died I tried to wait for about 15 minutes. Now I showed my wife the interview the only thing she said was she looked at me and said you really don't know when to shut up do you? Apologies boys let's get quick quickly into it my thoughts Because you asked for them. Okay steady pushed me way beyond

What I thought it would be I Loved the novelty absolutely enjoyed the novelty first and foremost of the routine like anything new. It's exciting to try And I think my body responded quite favorably. Going from the four day split or even anabolic to this three day full body has had an interesting effect psychologically with me. I've not once made an excuse not to train. I mean, I only finished, Once made an excuse not to train. I mean, I only finished, I only finished aesthetic last week. Not once did I miss, uh, or hang on, except for the second time I did phase three day one.

I mean, seriously, wow, that was, that was a killer. But anyway, I feel less fatigued and more ability because of the increased rest periods and consequently I feel really good about it boys. You've, you've, you've, you've hit upon something here. Now I did not conform strictly to the routine. Um, because I do a 30 minute. I have been stretched routine every morning. Uh, when I get up at 5 AM and it's intense enough to make me sweat in the

middle of winter, so I know it's, it's a good routine for me. So I dropped all the crunches and leg lifts at the end of the aesthetic routines. And I didn't always do the focus sessions, but otherwise I was pretty, pretty religious and stuck to it. Now you got me to introduce squats and deadlifts. I explained last time, I just stood right clear of them for almost a whole 50 years of my training career.

Because the reasoning was, you know, I saw a lot of my mates in the 70s and 80s had bad backs and all that sort of stuff and Sal explained that to me last time so I won't go into that but but what I did was I did those both both the deadlifts and the squats with a light weight and just focusing on that form. And I'm actually able to stand on one leg while putting my underpants on now. So things boys, something like that for my guy, my age is a big deal. That is a big deal. That's awesome. When, uh, it is a win. Uh, but all jokes aside, it's still a challenge

for me to, while I'm lying down on the floor to pick her up. So that's something I'm probably going to introduce later on anyway. Great idea. I like that. Perfect. Now I took some measurements as Adam suggested

before I started aesthetic. Um, look, I lost a little bit of size off my chest and, and that's to be expected. I mean, I went from, you know, four or five exercises of four sets each twice a week to what aesthetic gives me now. But having said that, I feel as if I fill out my t-shirt more. I feel broader. I feel out my t-shirt more. I feel broader. I feel a general sense of wellbeing.

So to me losing that, that, that inch off my chest, I think it was worth it. It really was. I really feel good about this. Good, good. And you, did you, you might've got leaner, uh, through the program. Did you notice anything like that? Say again, sorry, Sal. Did you notice that you got leaner through the program because that'll change the chest measurement? No, I didn't get leaner. I won't lie there. I did put

on, I put on three kilos and that's what's about six, seven pounds. But yeah, my belts are a bit tighter. I did, I went, I went on a bulk while I was doing it. Okay. Okay. Because I thought, you know, this is the, the, the volume in this is, is pretty high. So I want to make sure I've got my calories up smart. Yeah. Good call.

No, that's, um, I didn't push myself in terms of why, as I focused on the form predominantly as, as that's very important in my age as Sal suggested I honed in on the skill rather than the weight. So perhaps I didn't get the outcome I could have. So this is what I've decided to do boys. I've just finished a steady. I'm going to go back on a four-day split routine for four weeks just to introduce the novelty back into my body. Yeah.

I'm going to do aesthetic again, but increase the weights and more time under tension. I think it's going to be a very effective program for me. I love that. I love that idea. If I could make one suggestion, just because you noticed a little decrease in your chest, is if you make a little more effort on the focus sessions and make the chest the thing you focus on,

watch that come right up. So that right there. And I love the idea of interrupting this, going back for four weeks for the novelty, then coming back and then uh and then just I would do focus days, add add stuff on the chest and I think right there the combination of that, your skills improving getting better, maybe adding a little bit more weight on all those lifts, look out.

I think you're right Adam, I will, you guys suggested a whole stack of focus sessions on chest and I've got all the gear for all those exercises. So I'll definitely do that. There's one point you guys, I didn't think it was fair for me to compare anabolic to aesthetic, because I think that was what you guys asked me to do as well because they really are for different purposes.

And I understand that now. I understand what you guys are going on about having gone through the both programs now and for my use case it's defiantly, defiantly aesthetic. Love it. Now last point because I promised my wife that I was going to be quick. You guys deserve all the respect and comments you get. You knew what was going to happen with me and that says something about your ability. I thought I knew a lot but just going through this one program of yours and the impact it's had on my body and my psyche because that was what I was worried about my psyche. That's been incredible for me. Not only did you guys teach this old dog new tricks, but the confidence you've given me, I'm thinking I can still do this for

another decade or two into my nineties. Oh yeah. That's right. Excellent. Well, Jim, you inspire us, brother. You're, you're an inspiration to us. Let me tell you. Love it. Well me tell you.

Love it. Well, thanks guys. Seriously, gentlemen, you really made a difference in my life. I didn't think I would get the satisfaction and the excitement. I'm, I'm, it's three o'clock in the morning here. And I'm, after this, I'm going back. I'm going to the gym bar. I love it. I love it. Hey, we, we appreciate you, man. Thank you, man. Thanks boys. Seriously. Thank you very much for all your advice. Uh, I love you guys and I'll keep listening. Thanks boys. Thank you. You know, it's cool about that. Great guy. What's cool about that? What's cool about that for me, right, is just to listen, like, uh, he's just, what's he, 67?

67, been working out for most of his life strength training, bodybuilding. Uh, the amount of volume he can handle. Yeah. I know. Aesthetic is a lot of volume. He's a ton. But it's just so cool because his body is so

conditioned to be able to do that. Anybody listening who wants to strength train as they age, it gets better and better and better. I don't think there's been yet a 60 plus year old that we have ever recommended aesthetic to. No, but after when we talked to him in the last. No, I remember. We did, yeah.

I remember. I mean, if there's a guy who's gonna do that and see great benefits from it, he was the guy. So, so cool. I remember learning about Jack LaLanne's workout routine in his mid-50s, which by the way, that's when he set the world record for push-ups and pull-ups.

In his 50s. 55 years old. That's so rad. Even in his 90s, before he died, he was doing some pretty amazing workouts. So, it's definitely possible possible as long as it's appropriate But Jim is a great example of that. Look if you like the show come find us on Instagram. Justin is that mind pump Justin I'm at mind pump to Stefano Adam mind pump out

Thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and Maximize your overall performance check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin

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