Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2644: Eight Best Carbs for Bodybuilding & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: July 19, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: The 8 Best Carbs for Bodybuilding. (1:45) Will consuming a protein shake before bed disrupt your sleep? (17:51) Invest in your sleep! (22:37) Hyper-domesticated men. (27:17) The oldest mention of progressive resistance. (41:34) Wolverine stack for quick recovery. (44:31) Obscure combat sports. (53:56) #ListenerLive question #1 – Is there any way to make progress from strength training on 5-6 hours of sleep? (1:03:37) #ListenerLive question #2 – Is this what it looks like, or is there a way that I can get leaner? Or do I keep learning the lessons and the leanness will come? (1:16:53) #ListenerLive question #3 – Can you provide any insight on my recent forearm and shoulder pain before I see a physical therapist? (1:31:22) #ListenerLive question #4 – How should I train while doing a degree that includes quite a bit of sports and endurance too? (1:38:55) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Eight Sleep for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump Listeners! ** Use the code MINDPUMP to get $350 off your very own Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is that you still get 30 days to try it at home and return it if you don’t like it – – Shipping to many countries worldwide. ** Visit Transcend for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer! ** 30% OFF ALL MEDICATIONS. Telehealth Provider • Physician Directed GET YOUR PERSONALIZED TREATMENT PLAN!  Hormone Replacement Therapy, Cognitive Function, Sleep & Fatigue, Athletic Performance and MORE! ** July Special: MAPS Split or Anabolic Metabolism Bundle 50% off! ** Code JULY50 at checkout ** The Impact of Pre-sleep Protein Ingestion on the Skeletal Muscle Adaptive Response to Exercise in Humans: An Update Milo of Croton | Biography, Wrestling, & Facts | Britannica What is Slap Kabaddi? Lot of Slapping and Chaos! Watch It's in the Game: Madden NFL - Season 1 | Prime Video Visit Butcher Box for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer!  ** Available for a limited time, a curated box pre-filled with Mind Pump’s favorite cuts — no guesswork! ButcherBox members who sign up through Mind Pump will receive: $20 OFF their first box, Free chicken breast, ground beef, OR salmon in every box for a whole year! ** Sleep deprivation makes us less happy, more anxious Regular Napping Linked to Increased Brain Size – SciTechDaily MAPS Prime Pro Webinar Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Paul Saladino, MD (@paulsaladinomd) Instagram James Smith (@jamessmith) Instagram Jordan B. Peterson (@JordanBPeterson) / X Dr. John Delony (@johndelony) Instagram Arthur Brooks (@arthurcbrooks) Instagram Joe Rogan (@joerogan) Instagram Jay Campbell (@jaycampbell333) Instagram Justin Brink DC (@dr.justinbrink) Instagram Mind Pump Fitness Coaching (@mindpumptrainers) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. You found mind pump. All right. In today's episode, we had callers call in, ask for coaching. They needed help with their health and fitness and we got to help them out on air But this was after the intro portion of the episode

Today's intro was 61 minutes long now in the intro we talked about like fitness science fat loss muscle gain Diet advice we talked about parenthood. It's a good time By the way, if you want us to coach you on air for free Email us your question at live at mind pump media comm now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is 8 Sleep. This is the most advanced sleep system anywhere. You put it on your bed, the AI device controls the temperature of your bed and monitors your sleep to maximize the sleep quality that you have. It literally changes it on the fly. There's nothing like this anywhere in the world. If you want the best sleep of your life, go to eightsleep.com forward slash mind pump.

Use the code mind pump. You'll get $350 off your first Pod 5 Ultra. This episode's also brought to you by mphormones.com. Check with our doctors there for hormone replacement therapy and for peptide therapy. Today I talked about the Wolverine stack, BPC 157 and thymus and beta for accelerated healing. Go talk to them, check them out.

Go to mphormones.com. We also have a sale on some programs this month. MAPS split in the anabolic metabolism bundle of programs. It's all 50% off. Just head over to MAPSfitnessproducts.com and then use the code July50 for the discount. Here comes the show. Is not eating enough carbs or eating the wrong carbs

getting in the way of better pumps, better performance, more muscle building? Oftentimes this is the case, but all carbs are the same. We're gonna talk about the eight best carbs for bodybuilding. Let's list them. The king of carbs. Let's do it.

I'm gonna see how much of these line up with my diet. They all do. I know they do. I know what you eat. You know, there's this thing that still goes around in the fitness media, whatever space, that carbs, and there's some truth to it, right? Carbs are not essential, so you can go the rest of your life without eating a single carbohydrate.

And you'll probably be okay. Some people might get some hormone issues, but you'll probably be fine. It's like fats or proteins, you have to eat those. However, it's not ideal for most people. Like building muscle without good carbohydrates is much more difficult. It's much more difficult. The workouts are definitely not as enjoyable.

I don't even know if that's the case I make as much as I make like, what a miserable life. That's also true. Yeah, that's what I mean. I mean, that was why case I make as much as I make like, what a miserable life. That's also true. I mean, that was why it was really easy for me to be like, I don't know if I would ever get rid of these completely. There's too many foods that are enjoyable. And what you do to yourself by eliminating them in the diet consistently is you make

yourself so sensitive to it that you get such an adverse effect when you reintroduce it. Like you have something that's not ideal and you're also super sensitive because you never have them. It's just like then the negative effects that you could get from it are like compounding. So it's like, I'd much rather have my body used to taking in two to 400 grams and then, you know, what they consist of gets to change periodically. It's funny you say that, because going no carb and never having carbs for too long actually makes insulin sensitivity worse.

In fact, the biggest no carb advocates, Dr. McCollough, for example, now advocates for some carbohydrates once a week to offset this for exactly what you said. Yeah. Because it actually makes a difference. You know, I, the case I'm making is, you know, and there's a, there's a variance on what's a good amount of carbohydrates for, for you, for this, for what I'm

about to say, but you know, I go ketogenic often, but I don't do it because it gives me the best like bodybuilding results. I do it because I'm sharper and I do it when I'm on a lot of podcasts. But I definitely feel that I suffer in my workouts. The pumps suck. No carb pumps versus carb pumps is like two different, it's completely different. I'm not as strong.

The data on this is clear. I hate it when people argue this. Yes, low steady state endurance, you could do that fine in a ketogenic way, but when you're looking for speed, power, strength, carbohydrates, this is very well documented, make a difference. And then your point, Adam, like okay, carbohydrates can be delicious. They can be great ways to enjoy what you're eating and if you just don't enjoy what you're

doing when it comes to your food for a long time or for too long, that's probably a path to unsustainability, probably. Never getting a chance to have popcorn at the movie with my son or the birthday cake that I had two days ago. It's like, I don't know, this doesn't sound like a... You have like a steak with a candle in it. Yeah, it's like, hey. Happy birthday, gross. No thanks. Bad dad.

No thanks. All right, so we listed these, and what we're gonna do is go through them and talk about the best ways to use them, and why they're on this list. Now, at the top of the list is white rice. By the way, there's a reason why it's not brown rice. Back in the day, they would say brown rice is better, because it's got a little bit more fiber.

First off, it's not that much more fiber. But it's actually not as healthy for you. Brown rice doesn't digest as easily, and brown rice also contains what are known as anti-nutrients. It actually reduces the absorption of certain nutrients, so that whole brown rice is healthier advice is actually a massive myth.

I feel like that died out. Yeah. You still hear it sometimes. For the most part it has, but every once in a while I catch somebody and I'm like what are you eating brown rice for? Not to mention it tastes like crap. It tastes like crap and it's not healthy, it's actually slightly less healthy.

That's what I mean, it's like most people that make that choice, they make it because they think they're making the healthier choice. And then once they find out it's not the healthier choice, like what am I doing? Yeah, it is. Now, why is white rice at the top in our experience as trainers? It's always easy

to digest. It's almost all unless you have a factor to that. Yes, unless you have really bad gut issues where you need to avoid all starches for a little while while you solve SIBO or something like that. White rice is universally easy to digest and you can add anything to it. You literally can mix anything with white rice. I mean, I have so many cases for it. And it's cheap. I have so many cases for it being number one.

It's one of probably the easiest to measure in a way too. Super easy, like scoop a one cup of it. And it's perfectly measured. Yeah, it's like perfectly measured. It stores well. You can keep it in the refrigerator for long, and it doesn't lose. I mean it's just, goes with breakfast, lunch, or dinner,

like it is such a great carbohydrate to mix with all of your proteins that you choose, and it goes with everything. And I never get sick of it because it tastes like the other stuff I add to it. So it's like I'm never sick of rice because in the morning I could have it with eggs, I could have it with chicken,

I could have it with ground beef, steak, shrimp, salmon, I could add vegetables to it, I could make it sweet, I could make it savory. It's the best carbohydrate. And then again, it's super easy to digest. Like 70 grams of carbs from rice, it's like I eat nothing. Sometimes other carbohydrate sources feel like they weigh me down

and there's not a lot of people that are intolerant to it that's right for the most part very small percentage very small obviously there's somebody who's yelling at the radio right now I can't have it but it's like there's a very small percentage of people that white rice negatively affects right next up is sweet potato. Now you can include regular potatoes here as well. I said sweet potato because it's more nutrient dense, it's got more fiber.

In my experience, it's easier to digest. Taste better. Not just personal, but with clients as well. Taste better plain too. Yes, and with regular potato, oftentimes you add a bunch of stuff like butter. Yes, regular potatoes can get really dry all by themselves. Whereas sweet potatoes, I can throw them in an oven or by itself and just eat them.

And with digestion, I've seen this with clients where if they eat too much regular potato, they start to get some a little bit of bloat feeling, whereas sweet potato seems to have this great effect on digestion, I think it has to do with the fiber, and then also is a little higher in certain nutrients. Lower on the glycemic index too. It is, because of the fiber. Yeah. Yeah, and like you said Adam, it tastes really good,

but it's like one of my go-tos for digestive health when I want a carbohydrate. Next up. I'm a big potato guy. Next up is a carbohydrate that's less popular, very popular in Eastern Europe, buckwheat. Buckwheat is very easy to digest, gluten-free carbohydrate. And you can make breakfast cereals with it, you can add other things to it, you can get like buckwheat type, cream of wheat type of stuff.

Yeah, I was gonna say the only thing bought is cream of wheat. They make buckwheat pancakes too. That's actually the only, I was gonna say this is, of all the things on your list, this is the one I probably use the least. But I did used to use a pancake mix called buckwheat pancakes that I liked. And they taste pretty good.

Super easy to digest, gluten free. There's, you can buy like instant, it's not cereal, but it's like making cream of wheat in the morning, so it's like grits. It's like making grits, but it's buckwheat. And back when I was really experiencing gut issues, this was one that I could eat. This was one that didn't bother me.

And I found this with clients as well. It's very versatile as well. Next up, I got this from Adam. Quinoa pasta. I'm Italian. I love pasta. Regular pasta has gluten in it so it can definitely have some bloating effects on me. I noticed this with a lot of clients by the way, cutting gluten out, everything else being equal. About 50% of them notice a reduction in inflammation and bloat. Quinoa pasta tastes the best or the closest to traditional pasta. Boosted protein. Yes.

So such a cool thing that you can add this, switch this out and normally is way easier, digestible for people. Still goes well just like any pasta does with all the other meats. And then you get a nice little 10 more grams of protein from your pasta, which I think is an, I mean you get some protein from regular pasta, but you get even more with the quinoa pasta. So when you're trying to chase down, you know, 40, 50 grams of protein every meal, this is a total added bonus. This is our go-to. so like my mom makes this incredible pesto, she gets the, I mean she makes it homemade

and then she'll freeze it and she'll give it to us. And it's like this incredible, it's so good, like really good homemade pesto, so good. And we have quinoa penne pasta. And we add that to that and it is absolutely delicious. And then you make a dish, I see you eat all the time Adam, it's a, is it bison and quinoa? Is that what it is? I do a bison and quinoa. Katrina makes it's like noodles with uh, She makes this noodles and tomato sauce. It's almost like and cheese

It's almost like a lasagna that we make and we use ground beef. We've done ground turkey in it Um, but to your point like it goes with so many different types of meats and yeah, a little bit of red sauce is great With something like that almost, almost like a spaghetti, so she makes like a casserole like that. This is definitely a, because I love pasta, and it's not a huge leap to go from regular pasta over to quinoa pasta.

I don't feel like it's so different. Exactly. That it's like this miserable experience, especially when you add things like pesto and red sauce and things like in with the meats. It's like yeah, you can really Pass I've I've become so used to it that I almost forget what like regular pasta Tastes like and don't really notice it until I have like oh wow okay This is a little bit of a difference that it is so and it doesn't bloat me at all no yeah And then next we have bananas.

Bananas are the ultimate fruit for smoothies. Yeah. You add this to any smoothie. Any flavor, savory, tart, doesn't matter. It makes it taste better. At a banana it's better. And it's really carbohydrate dense. A banana's got a decent amount of carbohydrate.

Probably one of the most carbohydrate dense fruits I could think of. Yeah of if you need quick energy. It's a favorite among endurance athletes for a reason. But I like it for smoothies. If I'm gonna make a protein smoothie and I wanna add some carbs to it, you can add a lot of different fruit. But a banana's like, it's gonna just make it so much.

It just blends well and the texture and everything else with your shake improves when you add that in. 100%. Next up we have berries. Berries are, I hate the term superfood, but if you were to call anything superfood it's gonna be berries. They're so nutrient dense. They're dense with antioxidants, anti-cancer compounds, lots of fiber. And they're super high in fiber. And low calorie for that. And low calorie.

Yeah, and sweet, like bananas make a lot of things taste a lot better, so great way to sweeten something up, add flavor, not a lot of calories, getting some fiber in there. Here's how I use berries with clients. When they would eat small meals in between their larger meals, these were for clients that struggled with like, I need to eat something often, between their larger meals, these were for clients that struggled with like, I need to eat something, you know, often. And I'd have them have a protein, and I'd include a carbohydrate

that was low in carbohydrates, but was also easy and tasty. It was always berries. And then as a parent, berries, this is like the ultimate treat for your kids. Blueberries, raspberries, blackberries. Just leave them out. Leave them out,berries, blackberries, just leave them out. Leave them out, let them eat it, they're getting fiber,

it's not a ton of sugar or calories in comparison to other fruits. Super nutrient-dense, great. If, just to touch on the kid thing, man, if you, and I've seen this play out in other people's kids that have done a good job with this, like letting your kid eat a lot of raspberries, blueberries, strawberries as like their treat.

They will grow up thinking that that's like a dessert. Oh, that's candy for my kids. Yeah, Max thinks, you know, our after dinner, like dessert last thing he eats, Greek yogurt and fruit is like this crazy treat. Like it's like. And it is good. Yeah. It is good.

Next up is honey. This is nature's fast carbohydrate. This honey is great. Packed. It's great for, in fact, here's what's funny about honey. It is the one carbohydrate that the carnivore dieters will use to fuel their workouts. And I don't know why it's honey.

I think it's because it's like it's from an animal and maybe it's easy to digest. I don't know why it's honey. I think it's because it's from an animal and maybe it's easy to digest. I don't know, I think that fits in their philosophy. But you'll see, what's his name? The doc, the guy that... Saladino? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Saladino. Is that his name, Saladino?

Yeah, Paul Saladino. Paul Saladino, thank you. He now was a super carnivore advocate, but now he has honey to fuel his workouts. And honey's just easy. Like you could walk, we could have a honey stick as an easy source of carbohydrates in the middle of a long, like kind of strenuous workout

and it'll give you the energy. Similar to a banana. Yeah. Kind of an immediate sort of fuel source. Yes, yes. And then last, oats, oatmeal. Here's why I like oatmeal, easy for breakfast. Easy carbohydrates for breakfast.

If you want a really fast bodybuilding hack for breakfast, it's literally oatmeal with some protein powder in it. Mix it up, boom. You've got high protein. It's also part of my bulking strategy with shakes. Adding a banana, a half a cup of oats, and whatever else things that you wanna put in there like is a great way to boost the calories up

on like a Gainer shake. And when you think, sounds crazy to put dry oats in a protein shake, but you grind up a half a cup. I've done as much as a cup in the shakes. When you get to a cup, you definitely, the texture. But it doesn't bother me. Like I just, I used to, you know, drink it, drink the oats down, dry oats. It's a mass gainer shake. It is. Yeah. And I get great way to, I'm serious. I'd add a half a cup to a cup depending on how much I'm pushing with a protein shake. Oh, then I would, then I would do

the peanut butter banana Nutella. That's a, that's a 700 thousand. Yeah. That's close to a thousand calorie shake. You put a, you put a couple of, a couple of votes, you put a banana, Nutella. That's a 700 calorie shake. Oh, a thousand. It's close to a thousand calorie shake. You put a cup of oats, you put a banana, you put a tablespoon or two of Nutella and peanut butter. That's delicious. And then whey protein, oh yeah. And then whole milk if you really wanna go. Go after it.

You got yourself a 60 gram, almost thousand calorie Gainer, homemade Gainer shake. Using all these great foods in here. Now, because we talked about the best carbs, I didn't list these up here, but do you guys have like a worst carb for you? Like one that you eat and it's like, I know I'm going to feel like garbage later. I have one for me. Oh yeah.

Yeah, bread. Yeah, bread. Bread is the worst for me. It is. Bread is just, you know, one of the best, it took me a long time to eliminate bread from my diet. And I even went through phases of like, Oh, doing the Ezekiel bread and like, which is better than traditional, right? Right. Trying all these alternatives and stuff like that. And it's just like, do I really need bread? Like, is it that rewarding or great? And it's like, once I eliminated it and

got rid of it, not only did I feel so much better than I also realized, like there's so many, like there's so many things I can have in replace of it that are fine that it never bothered me bread for me. Yeah means I'm not gonna feel good digestively and I'm gonna crash if I eat like a lot of bread. It's a compromise I'm gonna fall asleep Afterwards even even sourdough and I love sourdough homemade sourdough made because my wife does it a lot But like I have to do it very sparingly Still cuz yeah, you'll get that crash and you'd also to like there's a bit of gluten still Homemade sourdough is the best. Because my wife does it a lot, but I have to do it very sparingly still. Because yeah, you'll get that crash and also too, there's a bit of gluten still that will

affect you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so since we're talking about foods and stuff like that, I read a study on protein shakes that I thought was awesome. I thought this was an awesome study, so I'm'm gonna read it to you, which is pretty cool. So this was a study that they were looking for for young healthy, it was young healthy men, okay? And I'm going to assume that they had

no gut health issues, okay? Now the study was, does a 40 gram protein shake before bed Does a 40 gram protein shake before bed improve or extend muscle protein synthesis in sleep? But also, here's the issue, will it negatively impact sleep? Because that's the thing, right? Not eating before bed, the main reason why we do that is so it doesn't disrupt our sleep.

Because who cares if you get a spike in protein synthesis but you get crappy sleep. Totally negates it. Not even a wash, it's worse. Well here's what they did. They gave these young healthy men 40 gram protein shake before bed. It extended muscle protein synthesis for seven and a half

hours, which sustained an anabolic response. And it did not disrupt sleep. You know, I have a theory did not disrupt. I have a theory on that too. Okay I have a theory on this. So I mean a young healthy male that is taking these shakes typically are active trying to build muscle and like probably a lot of young men struggle to eat enough calories and protein to build. And therefore, being in a,

that means they're in a calorie deficit or maintenance most of the time. I bet if you gave that to sedentary- They're like a sponge. I bet if you gave that to, exactly. And so your body's like starving for the extra calories. And I remember this, like just never being able to get enough calories.

And so yeah, eating at midnight didn't affect my sleep. Flip that on or, you know, fast forward 20 years later in my life where I actually am very sedentary compared to what I used to be. And if I go to bed, um, or I eat something right before bed, I'm most likely already in a surplus. And so that, that, uh that affects the way my body digest it and breaks it down and utilizes it and then is tougher to go to sleep. Yeah, I think the biggest considerations are gut health. Are you sensitive in the sense that little things can disrupt your sleep?

Because if little things can disrupt your sleep, then you probably don't wanna mess with it, right? Whereas some people, some people say, I'm a little more resilient, I have healthy gut, my gut is healthy. Remember this was a shake, it wasn't food. I bet food would have disrupted because a shake is easy to digest versus if I have a big meal right before I go to bed. But also these are young men who are pretty healthy. I don't know about you guys, but I never had issues sleeping as a young man. Never, I never had insomnia,

or woke up in the middle of the night as a young guy. That didn't start happening to me till I was maybe later 30s. And now it's like I gotta pay attention to my sleep, otherwise I can have bad sleep. So I don't know if this is good advice for everybody, but if you're like, yeah, I sleep fine, got good gut health, it's hard for you

to get that extra protein in, and you're like, uh-oh, should I take a shake? I gotta go to bed in 30 minutes. I mean, experiment with it, because they looked at sleep quality, they didn't just look at waking up, but rather sleep quality, and it wasn't effective, which is pretty good. I really think that the deficit surplus

would make a huge difference. I agree. I think in a surplus, you're more likely to have poor gut health anyway. Right, so all the above ends up happening because of that. But the young man who's struggling to get enough protein, struggling to get enough calories, the easy digestible shake just goes,

yeah, we need this. Now that being said, I will say there's probably a better protein shake than others to have before bed. You're probably better off having a slower digesting. This is where it might actually make sense. For the casein. Like casein or egg. Now it's not because you want the protein

to release slowly all night long. I don't think that makes a big difference, but I do know that wayey, it absorbs so quickly that it actually causes a little bit of an insulin spike. You actually can find studies on this. Taking Whey Shake by itself with no fats, you'll see an insulin spike. You don't want to spike insulin before bed because that could interfere with growth hormone production.

You're probably better off with a slower digesting protein like casein or egg protein powder than you are with whey. Cause whey is so quick digesting, which is a benefit maybe to replenish amino acids post-workout. You can make that case, but before bed, probably better to have the other stuff. And then sleeping, speaking of sleep, the one thing that we do that we have here that gets the best responses or reviews from our listeners for sleep is the eight sleep system. Yeah.

That just continues to blow people's minds. And it's, I mean, it's obvious it's, it's an AI controlled temperature on your bed that monitors your sleep and then adjust itself. Yeah. It literally adjusts itself. I just give you better sleep. I just introduced my friend and it was funny,

it got brought up because we were sort of reminiscing because we were roommates in college and a lot of my sleeping patterns, I started to blame on him because I have to have it extremely cold, he was a big guy and so it was like 30 below outside. A lot of times he'd open the window. He had to have constant air, you know, fan blowing on him,

you know, all these things. But, and I'm like, have you ever had like this product where you put it on your bed and it actually cools and keeps your temperature consistent throughout the night? And he's like, what the hell are you talking about? I'm like, oh, I'm gonna blow your mind You know, and so he went out to go research it and I'm gonna have to get feedback from him But like you even know that existed and I'm like you don't have to have like a Monsoon of fans on you all night long and just to try and like keep things. No when the bed is cool. That's like everything I was yesterday. I was talking to James Smith,

as you guys know James Smith, and he was on his story and he said the two best investments he's ever made into his health and fitness journey, and he listed, Eight Sleep is one of them, and so I'm like, oh man, are you partners with him? He's like, no, I just love the product, and so I'm actually in the middle of introducing the two of them right now

I was I'm like, how are you not small if you're out there telling people we've got a huge audience massive following that Eight sleep is the most one of the most impactful things you've ever invested in you're they're not partnering with you I'm like, let me make that connection for sure. And since we've been in the new house Man, it I tell you what I can now I've been testing this and I've talked about this before and I keep letting it go up. I let my house get up to 76 degrees in the house and it does not bother me. So it saves you hella money. To me that is the, if I'm, you know, 8 Sleeps marketing team, that is the angle that I'm

using. It will save you money. Because if you don't know, if you've never tried something like that, or you can't maybe even fathom, would that make that big of a difference for me? And then you're like, oh, that's quite the investment. People would see it and go like, oh, that's not cheap. It's not a cheap product.

And so if you might look at it and go like, oh, maybe not now, or that's kind of expensive right now. But if you realize how much less you have to run your AC at night to keep your core temperature down, I guarantee, I don't know the time frame, like what the math is on it, but you've got to come up with one of those calculators. You know how PRX does the gym membership one?

To me, that's such a brilliant way. Because someone's like, oh, man, home gym, that's thousands of dollars. I don't know, but it's like, well, if we let you make payments on it and your average gym membership is this much, then you finance over three months. And it's like, oh, that makes sense. I think eight sleep should do the same thing

where it's like, look at you. If you can reduce your, reduce running your AC for this many hours for this degrees, it translates to this many dollars. And it's like, oh, within six months,'ve paid off your your eight sleep just by that and so I know it's uh I mean I have the I have my sheet and my heavy duvet comforter uh uh down comforter covering you covering me that's how that's how cold it keeps me yeah it is it is it is wild How the only way I could keep that on top because normally I would push it all over the Courtney side So that's my challenge is I'm you know, some people I don't know if you guys are like this

Some people can just sleep with a sheet on them or nothing on them. I need weight I don't know what that is. And you know, maybe it's something I need to look deeper into like childhood You need a second vest under vest for me. Whatever. You gotta feel secure. Yeah, whatever it is. Is that why you have Doug hug you at night? Yes, yeah. I need weight on me to feel really comfortable and that's just tough to do when it's super hot in the room but with a bed like that. I sleep with nothing. I don't have no sheets on me. You can do that. No sheets? I mean it makes sense to be the guy one sleep sitting up in the airplane in five minutes like so that makes total sense. I feel very secure when I'm sleeping. Yeah which is why I can't do that I can't I have to be the

just the right position and the right amount of weight on me and stuff like that and temperature so it's life changing. I heard a quote from Jordan Peterson I wanted to say I wanted to read it out and I want to hear what your guys opinion is on this. So what he said was hyper domesticated young men will find hyper aggressive men attractive as role models because they need that aggression. They don't feel it in their lives and so they're attracted to, so I think of like the Andrew Tate.

We have indirectly talked about this Yeah, we have been joking or poking at these Alpha male camps these retreats. Yeah these retreats for the last I don't know four or five years It's they've really blown up and when I watch these videos it just looks like It looks like a guy or whoever runs it or owns it is just totally taking advantage Of all these beta dudes that think they need this ultra alpha yell scream, you know

This is a borderline max masculine toxicity type of shit It's abusive and type of behavior to counter their ultra-beta life. Yeah, so like what's ultra domesticated? Like what's an ultra domesticated man? I think this is a guy that he's afraid to show any kind of assertiveness. They're very passive. They're passive in their relationships,

which can come out as manipulation. You know what they call them, simps? Yeah. Can you chat can you, can you? You know, they're constantly. Chat GBT that? I'd actually really like to see what it spits off. Cause when you, when at first, like, okay, you're defining, you're trying to define yourself,

but I'd like to hear. What they think. Yeah, what they think is the definition of hyper domesticated. Is that what you said? Hyper domesticated men, like. Hyper domesticated or ultra? Hyper?

I don't care. Ultra's the other word. Who or ultra hyper. I don't care Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna say before he finds it I think it's it's it's a very passive afraid to be assertive guy who He's constantly catering To women because this is the only way that they will talk to him And so he's always doing the like, oh yeah, everything, and you're good, and whatever. And it's that guy, I've known guys like this in a group of men, it's that guy that gossips behind other people's backs because they're afraid

to say things directly. The term ultra domesticated man isn't a familiar form that we're gonna, but likely a familiar man. He's exceptionally skilled and willing to handle household tasks, no that's not working. Yeah, I don't think this is working. No, no to handle household tasks. No, that's not He said hyper is what he did but I know what he's referring to yeah I think I'm not sure where he's pulling that terminology from that's why I carry. Yeah, he's yeah. Oh, here it is This is better. Yeah docile submissive. Yeah, there you go. That's what he, he said hyper. So that's what he, that's exactly.

Yeah, so it's, so read it so everybody can hear it. Yeah, general usage hyperdomesticated man refers to someone who's perceived as excessively adaptable, docile, or submissive. Yeah, so, and they're trying to draw parallels to the process of animal domestication. Yeah, it's, and you're going to be attracted to the ultra ridiculous fake masculine role models. Because you think you need that. Well

yeah, you know because you know that's your biggest deficit. Well it's the two ends of the spectrum. Yeah, both toxic. Yeah exactly, both unhealthy and the truth is somewhere in the middle is probably the healthy balance, right, for this person, but you're attracted to the opposite in the spectrum because you think you need that. By the way, this is why young men that grow up without a good male role model, like a strong healthy male role model, why they tend to become more violent, why they tend to get attracted to... Yeah, they overcompensate. Because their ideal of masculinity is media.

They didn't have a good role model that showed them how to treat women properly, didn't show them how to be assertive properly, didn't show them how to be aggressive when necessary, but also how to be calm most of the time. And so what they see is rap know rap music athletes media and they're like oh that's masculinity so that's what I'm gonna become because they didn't have that you know that role model you know I know we got as young man you need

that role model I know we talked about maybe making an episode of this but I just feel like it's so top of mind that maybe now is the time to kind of bring it up or talk more about it because we just got off the phone in a really cool question asked from an old friend of ours, Mike, who's reaching out to us about this stigma around like men asking for help. Yeah. And that, what is it about that that men don't ask for help

and that it feels, it feels like it feels less masculine to do that. And basically he was complimenting us because he's like, man, I just feel like you guys are not that, you represent a very strong masculine man, but yet you guys are so quick to ask for help. And he goes, where does that come from? And I felt like all of us were giving similar,

but yet different answers around that. And so, have you thought about that before? Have you ever been complimented like that before and really unpacked where that all comes from for you? Well, I think there's personal, you can have individual reasons to why. Maybe you feel like if you ask for help, you're a burden, and maybe you grew up thinking you had to be useful

and or be lovable and that kind of stuff. But I also think generally, so I'm going to speak generally. If you look at the help market, like therapy, for example, it is not geared for men. It is not geared for how men typically get themselves out of things. It's geared more towards how women get themselves out of things. So I'll give you guys, I'll paint a scenario. Okay. Your wife comes to you and she says to you,

oh my God, so and so at work is such a whatever, I'm stressed out, this is so difficult. You've probably learned this as men now that the last thing you should do is give her the answer. Yeah, try and solve it. Which she probably, what she's looking for is Here's what you need to do. Empathy, someone to confide in.

She wants empathy. So someone to listen. Yeah, and then she'll figure it out, right? What she probably wants is. Oh man, honey, that sucks. Wow, that really sucks, that's really difficult. How are you feeling about it? Now here's the deal, you guys come to me,

one of you guys has a problem, you come to me. And you're like, imagine this, Adam, you come to me, you're like, hey Sal, man, I'm really stressed out and having a tough time, and I put my arm around you, it's okay, it does really suck. You're like, what the hell? Give me the ad like body slamming. Yeah, you just, you feel like, this is,

I don't wanna talk to you ever again. Because what men need is a direction and a purpose. And so I think that's the other reason. I think when men ask for help, especially in a professional setting, we don't get direction and purpose, what we get is a lot of empathy, which kind of makes us feel like. Not helpful. Like it's not helpful, it's maybe useless and oh gosh, I guess I am terrible,

you know, type of deal. Which is why, here's the other point I'm gonna make around this, a good group of friends, male friends, helps. Because your buddies, what they'll do is they'll talk crap to you or they'll, and what I mean by good friends, you trust them and you love them. It can't be someone you don't like this will work but if Justin comes up to me and he's like bro you're getting fat dude like you need to get like you need your shit together man you get healthy I'm like okay yeah or if I come to him with a problem and just like what you need to do is this thing over here like I'm gonna appreciate even if I disagree I'm

gonna appreciate it yeah here's what worked for me and that's right you convey like some answer that worked for you. So I think that's a big part of it. Yeah, I just feel like to me, it was like the speed at which we get to an answer. And it's so easy for me to unpack this right now because I felt like there was a moment yesterday where this happened, where you have four men in a room,

we were kind of like arguing and debating this. The first place my brain went was like, who's dealt with this problem more than me and probably could advise better than the four of us? And so I'm like, call Eddie, call someone. That's right away I defer to that versus. It's 100% my point. We're all trying to find that solution

That's right and we're not with the frustrating part is when we we start talking in circles and And we're not getting anywhere and it's about feelings and it's in the motions rise It's like get me out of here. Give me the solution No, no you're 100 you're literally backing up what I'm saying Adam Imagine if you went to all these people and they came back to you and they're like, oh man, that's really tough. How stressed are you? You really stressed out.

You're like, what the hell? And not only that, but the other part of it is you have a direction or purpose. I need this, I need help, here's the purpose, can you give me a hand? And they reply and say yes, do this. So you're out there looking for the answer because you have a purpose.

Yeah, but the challenge that Mike was saying that most men don't take that step. That's right. Right, most men don't, like I said, it's such a default easy thing for me. There wasn't a time where I'm like, we should try and figure this out ourselves. And even though I know somebody who might know the answer,

I want to prove I can figure it out. I don't have that. It's the lone wolf badge of honor. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. Well, you're more like that, admittedly. I can be like that. You've admitted that you're more have that. It's the lone wolf badge of honor. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. Well you're more like that, admittedly. I can be like that.

You've admitted that you're more like that. That's more of a personal thing because I always felt like it had to be useful. Yeah. So like I said, there's individual. There's probably a lot of men though that feel that way though. They can, I think so.

I think that that can happen. That feel the role of provider, have the answers. But it can. For me it was always being stoic and not being like emotionally weak. Yeah. Well, so that was, you know, that was a part of it, but I had to learn that, uh, you know, or in order to improve, I have to bring people in to really help.

Yeah. But I'm going to counter that again, you guys, you're right. And we have our own individual reasons, but is can trust, can Justin take good direction for men he respects? Yes. Absolutely. He's had coaches. Can I? Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, I read had coaches, can I? Absolutely. Yeah. I read a great post on X a while ago, you just reminded me of.

It was a male psychologist that wrote this. Actually, they reposted something and commented on it. And the post was, Guy's girlfriend leaves him, so he goes to the gym to try and get in shape. What he really needs to do is talk about his feelings. You know, all these people commenting. This male psychologist reposted it and said, actually, you would be surprised how many men

come out in a much better place because they go try to work out, or work on themselves. And it's totally true. It's the guy's like, I'm not talking about my feelings, but you know what I'm gonna go do? I'm gonna go get better. I'm gonna go get better and that looks like whatever. Working out.

You are working on improving. That's right, that's right. So it's just different, it's just different. Not to come off or sound like I'm at all defending somebody like Andrew Tate, but if you listen to his content talking to so many young men that come to him with depression and this and that, that's always his first piece of advice.

It is. Go work out. Some of what he says is true, which is why I think he's so doing this. Exactly, that's why he's done as well as he's done as far as the popularity is, because there are grains of truth in the stuff that he says. He's just the best at these things. I still think I agree with you, he's the other extreme of that example that we gave, and somewhere in the middle is probably the truth

But there there are some very practical things that he advises some of these young men that do work That's like hey, you're if you're a depressed guy Like go try and be depressed with abs see what happens like seriously like that simple like like you're depressed You can't figure your way out like I dare you to go do go try and be depressed with abs And it sounds such a Vain sure way of saying it but it's like Ernie, but yeah, but a lot. Yeah, exactly the pursuit and journey of I mean Less people are uh, you know have abs than are millionaires. That's a hard task That's right to solve and let me tell you what a confidence builder

It is to figure that out and like you try being depressed and doing that You know who's a good example of a male role model that has the qualities, like you might say, with Andrew Tate, who's like, no. John Delaney, Arthur Brooks. Joe Rogan. I think Joe Rogan's a great example. He's humble. He always asks for questions.

Not the guy that says, I know everything, but he's also got that masculinity. He's also got that, I'll go handle this, I'll go work out, I'll go handle this I'll go I'll go work out I'll try this thing to get better I think that's and so that's someone I would point to Andrew Tate he's got some truth but he's also a womanizer douchebag ego manipulator yeah yeah but to your original point is that we have we have these hyper domesticated males by the by the dro, and it's attracting somebody like that.

Because that's why, maybe 20, 30 years ago, that guy doesn't get popular whatsoever. Nobody's seeking that as bad as they're seeking that, where there's so many men that are seeking that right now. Men have just been discarded in society. It just seems that all the positive traits have been really downplayed Someone like us. I were not clickbaity enough. We're not We're not enough

Even though if you could argue if you listen to the show for long enough We get that compliment from a lot of young men, right? As far as the this the stuff that we say and help them with But because we're not extreme enough on the other side We don't seem to get the same type of attention and traction for those reasons. By the way, you know who sounds the alarm the most on what you just said, Justin, where a lot of young men

are getting discarded and just kind of told that they're worthless and masculine traits are terrible? Do you know who the people are that are speaking out the most against that? Mothers of sons. They're the ones that are really sounding the alarm, because, and these are women, but they have sons and they see it and they're like, okay, this is a problem that needs to get

solved. I can see what's happening to my kid in school. I can see how they're behaving and they need to understand that masculinity, not only is it not bad, it is needed. Healthy masculinity is needed in society. Are we turning? It's purpose and drive, really. Are we turning? Yes, I think you are turning.

I think we are turning, for sure. I could also go in the wrong direction, but I think 100%. Enough people are talking about it now to where you're starting to see. And by the way, when you look at the data on like people who are adopting or moving towards religion, I think part of it's the discipline, who are adopting or moving towards religion,

I think part of it's the discipline, it's Gen Z men, Gen Z young men are moving most, and I think they're the ones that are seeking, they're like seeking the most. You know, what we're talking about. Speaking of this, kind of along the lines of this topic, do you guys know what the oldest mention, historical mention of progressive resistance is. Yeah, so have you guys ever heard of this story?

Is it not Atlas or what's the name? Milo? Milo? Yeah, Milo of Croton. Where he's carrying the boulder up, or no, the bull, I'm sorry. Yeah, Doug, can you look it up and see when this was first, like how old this is?

It's the first example, written example of the understanding. He has a calf on his back. Yeah, about progressive resistance. Everyday carrying the calf up the hill. He was like a wrestler. It was incredibly. Is it a true story?

I thought that was. No, it's a myth. Okay, I just said that was a myth. It's a myth, but what's cool about it is, and I'd love to see how long ago this story originated. It's like. Yeah, sixth century BCE. Okay, so this is old.

But it's a great example. So the story goes, Milo as a child, as a young man, picked up a calf on his back and would carry him, and he did this every day. And as the calf got bigger, eventually turning into a bull, Milo got stronger. And it was the first mention of progressive overload and resistance.

Isn't that cool? Now the way it was presented though, was not like that though, right? No, that's what it was. It's literally talked about how that is how he got stronger. That's how he got stronger. That was his training. As he grew, the cow grew.

Yep, he lifted it and every day it got bigger and so he got stronger. I mean, I wish that... I mean, that's kind of cool, like progressive overload, right? Well, I mean, to that point, I wish as a young man that I kind of, I understood that at the level that I do today and thought, you know, I could have really approached my training in a much simpler, more methodical way of just like, you know, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna do the same thing, but just add half a pound every week or something like that. And

when you think about a decade or decades, in my case later, like, Jesus, imagine how just stronger than also how healthy you would have safe, you would have done it that way. Like it would just would have been a far better approach. Oh, better than what I did, which was always just see how much I could lift every time. Yeah, and not jumping like, you know, 25, 50 pounds every set, you know. I always thought about that too, because there's those fractional weights.

Oh my God, I wish I had those. I wish I had the discipline to just. That's what I mean. Yeah, to really like methodically just, even like those little magnet weights, just add those on to where you don't even know. That's what I mean, like I methodically just, even those little magnet weights, just add those on. To where you don't even know. That's what I mean. I'm gonna, this would probably serve so many young kids

that are getting into lifting. It's just like. It's like every week, add a one pound weight. Yeah, and literally just follow a good solid basic routine. And practice. Yeah, and just get good at the lifts, and quietly add that half pound. Totally. You're not paying attention, and just keep going at that, and quietly add that half pound. You're not paying attention and just keep going at that

and watch how strong you get and fit along the way. Speaking of strong and fit, I'm gonna mention this peptide stack again because every time I use it, it is amazing. The, what do they call it, the bull run stack? Oh yeah. It's BPC 157 and thymus and beta. There is a synergistic effect from that everybody that, now both of them are great for healing,

recovery. One is more for muscle, the other one is better for cartilage, connective tissue. Both by themselves remarkable. When you combine them there's a synergistic effect that changes the way my muscles look and actually makes me leaner. And I talked to Jay Campbell about this. I said, what do you think's going on here? Because he actually lists that stack

as one of his favorite fat loss stacks. And I said, what do you think's going on? And he's like, the upregulation of the growth hormone receptor is happening. So your growth hormone becomes far more effective with both, so it's like taking growth hormone with just two peptides that have nothing to do with that. That stack is like, have you guys used both together?

Oh, multiple times. Together. Yes, multiple times. I mean, I only take them together now. I won't just take one by itself. It's like you may as well have the other one because they stack so well together. I mean, my theory is that this has been the athlete stack

for decades now because we've known about it for a long time. I think that between the hyperbaric chamber and that and red light and like those and that stack is what is getting these torn ACL, MCL football players back on the field within so fast. Yeah, like it's just the only thing that makes sense to me, like how they're able to recover that quick and then get back and perform that way. Have you used that stack, Justin? I've used it once, and this was when I was,

I think it was when I was having back issues and my QL and everything else. Yeah, because every now and then I'll get a flare-up of that, and I wanted to see if it really made a difference, because I was taking the oral, and I didn't really notice much difference. That's for gut.

For gut, but then I started doing the injectables and that was the first time I actually used the thymus and beta in combination with it. Dude, yeah, it was very effective. I definitely felt the difference. I wish I had access to peptides as a trainer when I was a trainer. I wish.

Could you imagine with your clients, that good nutrition advice, good training, here let's throw this little turbo charger on you. Yeah, because you already got all the different mobility practices and a lot of the different, in combination with that, you could really put them in a healing environment. Plus I had, towards the end of my career,

I had a affluent client base, so they wouldn't have leaked spending money on peptide. It would have done it. If I told them to do it, they would have done it. And it would have been mind blowing. It would have been very helpful. I think a lot of fitness people are integrating it in their regimen now.

I mean, just if you have the clientele that can afford to do. Bodybuilders, so I was talking to, I'm not gonna say who, I don't wanna give anybody away. But I was talking to a pro bodybuilder the other day and he told me that all the pros now. All peptides stacked out. Oh, they're using GLP-1's pre-contest. Oh, of course.

And you know what they're saying? We knew that was coming. Do you know what they're saying? So pre, first off. It's diet easy. You know, this is cheating for bodybuilders. It is cheating. It's the hardest part.

What made bodybuilding, bodybuilding was pre-contest diet. Like everything else is easy, the training's easy, everything else, as hard as it is, piece of cake. You starve yourself to get down to 2% body fat. That is some discipline. And now they're using GLP1s, and what they're saying is like, bro, I only ate 10 grams of carbs yesterday.

I only had this many calories, and I'm not even hungry, I don't even care. Like, oh, you cheater. Takes that out, yeah. No, what you're used to is dreaming of food. Like I would have midday dreams, dude, midday. Never in my life. When would that happen, by the way?

What body fat percentage would it start to get really weird? Oh, that's a really good question to ask and make me try and think back. Sub, sub eight, yeah, sub eight. That's when it got weird for me. Seven, yeah, as you say. I could get just under, like as soon as I start to get single digits, I'm getting close. Once I start getting eight, seven. That's when he got weird for me. Yeah, as you say. I could get just under, like as soon as I started to get single digits,

I'm getting close. Once I start getting eight, seven, definitely six. Then it's like, then it's all you think about. Oh, that's all you. Then once I became, once I got under sub six, I saw food move through my body, if that makes sense. Like I-

You eat it in your veins? Yeah, yes. I mean, I would eat or drink something and I felt like I could watch it go to the places. Yeah, yes. I mean, I would eat or drink something and I felt like I could like watch it go to the places. It sounds crazy to say that, but when you were, your skin is paper thin like that, you're ultra sensitive to everything because you've been depleted for so long. The slight adjustment. All you think about, so this was for me, I've only gotten below seven percent, maybe three times in my whole life.

And like what you're saying exactly, Adam, eight, nine percent, I can do that, and it's not like taking over my life. When I've gotten below seven, and especially below five, all I thought about was food. It's the weirdest, worst, you have to be so disciplined. It sounds horrible. It's all you think about. This is where the massive adoption of the cheat meal or day came from was because you

knew you had to be so perfect all week long that you're always thinking about Friday at 4 p.m. though I get to have that thousand calorie meal and I haven't had a meal over 450 calories. Bro, I was talking something positive. Yes, so you just think about it, I can do it, I got seven more meals down to go till I'm there. It's like, oh, then I can, it totally was a psychological thing. I was talking to the- By the way, unhealthy relationship for 99% of the population. I was talking to, again, my buddy who's a pro, and he goes, bro, and I'm like,

how's the pre-contest gonna do? He goes, I was making my, he goes, I used to, he used to compete before he became a dad, and he goes, it sucks. I said, why does it suck? He goes, I'm giving my daughter oatmeal, I'm just angry. Cause I'm giving her oatmeal.

And he's like, I want to take a bite out of her oatmeal, so bad. He's like, I'm just pissed off the whole time. It never gets easier, huh? It gets worse. Yeah, it gets harder and harder. You're fighting your body. Well, think about it.

Your body, that's why 8, 9%. It's like, ah, it's not that bad of a deal because I still got plenty of reserve. But as you really tap in those reserves, Your body's doing everything to keep you from dying. The natural biological signals that you have, your body is screaming at you like yo bro we're getting real close to death here like it's time to like. Hey guy. And so yeah I even think that's where the dreams start coming and everything like

that it's like this is becoming such a high priority that we're gonna make you think about it all the time. Oh you would rather, this is how it is. We're incredible machines when you think about that. You would rather eat a rice cake with peanut butter on it than have amazing sex with your wife. That's how much, I'm not even joking. Yeah, no. Well, especially that because you're that low calorie. Yeah, your libido dies when you tell her.

Yeah, yeah. It's not like you could even. Your body's not even thinking about reproducing at that point. I wish people knew this when they looked at that and said, oh, I wanna look like that. No, you don't. No.

That's a torturous, shitty way to live. No, it's not, Yeah. It's so over. It's so overrated. So overrated. And like, and there is a definitely a, there is a genetic anomalies of people that can just look that way and they're not as horrible. Most people will feel horrible. They'll feel horrible going down to that, that level of body fat percentage.

The only thing, the, the educational piece was the most valuable thing I got from it. Yeah. That was the most, the most valuable thing I got from it. That was the most valuable thing. Well when you're that lean, here's what happens, when you're that lean, you can, if you gain a percent body fat, you see it a lot. Because you're so lean, if you hold three pounds of water, you see it. Like everything you eat.

It affects you almost immediately. You see it because you're so lean, it's like you're translucent. You can see everything that's happening. So that's what made me, I think it gave me the words for, which is interesting, for the average client so much better because I experienced what, up until that point, I never connected the dots to my clients that would say things like, Adam, I'm doing all the things, but I know I'm getting fat or I feel fat or I look, I know it, I'm looking in the mirror and I'm like, Adam, I'm doing all the things, but I know I'm getting fatter, I feel fatter, I know it, I'm looking in the mirror, and I'm like, no, you're not,

it's all in your head, it's all in your head. And then it would happen to me. I would be on this perfect diet, but then I would eat something that was just a little more inflammatory, or I didn't get as good as sleep. Looked different. Or I ate a little extra carbs or did something,

and all of a sudden it looked like I screwed my programming up. I looked like, oh my God, I put on a pound of fat yesterday, but I'm like, I can track everything. It's not even possible that I could have done that, but yet I'm looking at myself convinced I did something wrong or it went that way. And then that inflammation would pass, the water retention would go, and then 72 hours later, oh, I look good again.

I'm like, oh, shit. Now, this happens to our people every day, or not every day, but throughout their training program, this is happening to them. And it's just harder to tell because they're not so dialed. They just see the- They can't pinpoint it. Yeah.

And then if you don't know any better, you course correct and you think, oh God, I'm going to cut more. I got to do this other thing. And when in reality, you were actually perfectly, your body would just hold a little extra water or you ate something that inflamed you a tiny bed or whatever the case may be. And that perception throws off what you were doing, which was perfect already. By the way for people who are interested in that peptide stack we have partners at mphormones.com so you'd want to go there they're doctors these are actual pharmacy you know compound pharmacies that'll make it for you. Anyway I got to

tell you guys about this new sport that I started checking out on social media. Okay. Have you guys seen Doug? Can you type in? Sanchi quadi it's in the notes there. Make sure you make sure you hit mute on the TV. I want to see it's an Indian Fighting sport and it's typically like bigger heavier dudes. Yeah, and they're in a circle in the dirt They're they're wearing just like a slap each other's chests Or slap each other's chests? What is that? I don't know. I've seen it on Instagram before. How do you win? How much you take it, I think, right? I don't know. I should read the rules. You remember when we were kids, we played that like, what was it, shoulders? Oh yeah. Where you sock each other's shoulders until the other guy just gives. You know what I'm saying?

You get a dead arm. Yeah. All right, enough, enough, enough. So here's what it is. One player, the Raider, slaps the defender on the chest. The defender tries to grab the Raider's wrist to restrict their movement. If the defender holds the wrist and limits the Raider's movement, the defender wins. If the Raider escapes the grip, they win. Fouls are called if any part of the body other than the chest is struck or grabbed.

So they're in a circular arena, often with a bamboo pole wrapped in red cloth placed on the ground with a winter parades. It's a rural sport often performed during festivals or gathering, showcasing physical strength. It's funny. It's these guys. I've seen a guy like run, jump, slap. So the goal is you have to grab his wrist, but if you actually try to grab him,

you'll lose it. He's trying to be elusive with it. Yeah, then you lose. So you're not gonna try and grab it unless you can grab it. So it's wrist grabbing. Strange. This clip looks different than what I've seen. I've seen these in dirt, just dirt field things.

As soon as it plays, we'll be able to see what's going on. It's just a bunch of still images. I'm trying to find some action here. Okay. This is group chest slapping. I'm trying to find some action here. OK. This is group chest slapping. I've never seen that one before, Doug. And then I've seen other videos. Yeah, and they're like, they got knocked out

with a chest slap. Wow. It looks fake to me, but now I get the rules. So that's probably why it does. Yeah, that's interesting. I had no idea the rules. I didn't know how. Again, you never know these days if it's just like some viral trend. No, it's an old sport

Yeah, I didn't know it was a sport. I thought it was just a viral trend that was going. I love I love finding obscure Quote unquote combat sport. I mean, he's a big-ass Indian dudes. Look at that guy. I love these like these team combat ones We're like there's a terrible ones were like there was a terrible I know it's really can you choose anyone to slap is that I never seen group I've never seen in a group he's wrestling he's wrestling Doug's Doug's searching skills I typed in what you gave me put me in slap the chest slap fighting sport do that yeah I love this looks different than what, yeah. I love, anyway. I'm like, this looks different than what I've seen.

I know the one you're talking about, they're like in sometimes like dirt. Yeah, yeah. It's just like two guys, they're normally wearing like a, like a diaper looking thing. It almost looks like a sumo version, Indian sumo version, but not sumo.

And then they're slapping, yeah. Oh, if you guys don't see his screen, but there's a guy jumping super high. Yeah, I love, like I said, I love this one Looks interesting too, though I love obscure fight sports because I think they're so interesting like Senegal. The wrestling is awesome. Yeah. Yeah, there's a sport in Italy It's called cultural storico. I think it's called it's like soccer, but it's any you can fight each other Yeah, why you get the leader?

I like the rites of passage ones too, with certain tribes. Like have you ever seen that one where they have like vines that they tie up to this like tall tower? Yes. And they jump off like a bungee jump? Yes, and it doesn't stretch though. It doesn't stretch, but it goes just, their head almost hits the ground.

Yeah. And it's like. Love it. Oh my God, it's crazy. This looks like a show, right? Yeah, this is what I've seen. They're in this dirt. And then there's this one sport, I want to say it's Pakistan, see this looks like a show, right? Yeah, this is what I've seen. They're in this dirt. And then there's this one sport, I wanna say it's Pakistan, I gotta find it out,

but there's this one guy, he's like the viral guy of the sport, and Justin, I think I sent you a video of this. Probably. It is a massive stone, like smooth stone boulder that's on the ground, okay? And this guy gets, he squats down, he's got the best mobility I've ever seen, and he pulls it it up to his knees and then he pops his hand underneath it and stands up Yeah, one hand and it's on his and the stone is like

Yeah, and you see how low he squats. Yes, you get under it I think the technique involved is ridiculous and the guys obviously very it's so funny to me that how much you like all these obscure Sports and then you're not a sport guy like you don't watch sports here. I did fight sports. Remember I did judo, jiu-jitsu. He does the random stuff. I did judo, jiu-jitsu. I you know anything that involved combat. I love all sports. I was always interested. Other sports was like I wasn't I just wasn't that interested. Yeah, you let me watch it any kind of a wrestling any kind of combat sport. I feel like you have such an appreciation though for history, kind of combat sport I love. I feel like you have such an appreciation though for history, psychology, that I feel like if you actually just cared enough to sit down and learn all the things, because

that's how I always fall in love with the sport. I'll see a sport until I learn the rules and the strategy, and then I go, oh, that's cool. I appreciate the hell out of them. For example, football is one of my favorite sports to admire because it is as close as you can get to war. Sure. Because you literally have, you have your fighter jets, you have your tanks.

Ultimate strategy sport. Every player looks different because they have a different role. Different role, yeah. Like you would in war. And then you have to do these plays and it's violent and it's like, it's incredible. There's a really good series, you guys, on that's the one that's the stone lifting challenges.

Bro these guys are are animals. Yeah that's crazy I mean in Scotland too they do this they have like specific stones forever that like are lifting stones. Oh yeah. You just go into somebody's backyard and. Bro that's a 366 pound stone. Look at this guy. He's just gonna pick it up. You know how hard that would be to lift off the ground? You see the guy who just set the record for the, cause it's the same thing, it's the shield, the heavy shield of the strongman,

he just set the record. How far he carried it, it was crazy. You know what I like about these weird sports, like these dudes in these rural areas that are lifting stones? Do you know how badly this guy would kick most people's asses, like how strong you have to be to lift a rock off the ground? Oh yeah.

And just, yeah dude, look he's a giant. Yeah, it's insane. There's a good series on Prime that it's all on Madden, the video game, and the entire, I think it's like a seven part series, I think it's called Madden something. Didn't Madden influence football, like video games? So much.

Oh, yeah. So much. That game, yeah, it really opened up people's knowledge base. So there's a great documentary that came out a few years ago right after Madden passed that was really good too, that I think was on Apple or something like that. Then this one is all on the game,

the entire history of building the game. And it goes all the way from its inception to its release coming out this year. And like all the trials and tribulations of that game and the times when they almost lost one. You're talking about the Madden curse in there too? Everything, Madden curse is in there. Everything you can think about with Madden is in there.

But the realism of that and to be so accurate to the game and then what it's done for kids, like learning from it to come, oh man, what you- Simulated strategy. and the to be so accurate to the game and then what it's done for kids like learning from it. Oh man what you look simulated strategy. Yeah I mean I I never uh I only played football for a short stint when I was really really little and so I didn't understand the game until I got into high school and the only reason why I really understood the game was because I played Madden. Wow. It's because I played the video game and like you learn so much from it took me a long time because I I was very I would isolate like my job and I was like really good at my job in my specific position on the field and then I Had to learn everybody else and how they interacted with that every way

Yeah, well, so then then once you start learning what everybody else is doing as well You can predict more accurately predict, you know, how this is all going to sort of funnel the ball carrier, where the spots are going to be, where you're going to be most impactful. And then I got into college and we just would literally study, like just play after play after play. And like, I mean, we had the big screen, we go into this theater room and we would just break down film for hours and hours and hours.

And it just, my knowledge base of like, you know, predictability and like how to, how to really put myself in a better position, like was, was tenfold. Well, you don't have to step as much. The evolution of what you're talking about is what I just love. And I love hearing the breakdown from, you know, somebody some like like a Ray Lewis, for example, right? Yeah, the level of understanding that he has at the practice like to where his game knowledge is his ability to look at the quarterback's eyes and know like, oh, he's doing this, this and that and like where to position needs and keys like so for me, like, yeah, like reading guards and like that was a huge.

And so once I figured out too like how much pressure they put on their hand, you could see that as they lined up like I knew exactly where I was going. Yeah, yeah, so cool. If you like grass-fed meat, if you like high quality chicken and pork, wild caught fish, you gotta go to ButcherBox. ButcherBox delivers it to your door, so it's great prices, but it's healthy protein. It's healthy protein.

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ground beef, or salmon included in your box for free for an entire year. Go check them out. Back to the show. Our first caller is Lisi from North Carolina. Hi Lisi. How you doing Lisi? Hello hello. How are you? Hi guys. How are you? Hi, guys. How are you? I'm good. How are you?

Good. Very good. How can we help you? So I'm just going to read my question. First of all, I want to let you guys know that you keep me company. I drive an hour and a half to and from work every day, and you keep me company every day to and from work.

Yeah. Love you guys. Yeah. Wonderful. But all right, I'm going gonna read this because it's just easier. I'm a 49 year old female. I've been straight training for years, but about eight months ago, I started a program geared towards menopausal women to help build muscle and gain some weight. I'm not exactly happy with my results. I feel like I've mostly gained fat instead of

muscle. My goal is to build muscle and get stronger so I've decided to try one of your programs about Muscle Mommy. My question is about sleep. I struggled with sleep since I was a teenager. Even with a sleep neurologist and a lot of medication, I rarely get more than five to six hours. I work 12 hours shifts and commute so there simply aren't enough hours I work 12 hours shifts and commute, so there simply aren't enough hours to get more than that. Is there any way I can still make progress off of that little bit of my sleep? Okay, now the reason why you can't get more sleep

is because you have issues with sleep, not because you don't have enough time to sleep, right? Well, no, I don't have no time. I don't get home till 8.30 at night, so by the time I shower, get in bed, 9.15, I gotta get back up at three30 at night. So by the time I shower getting bed 915 I got to get back up at 3 3 a.m. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, you're okay. So beast. Yeah, the only way to get around this your best second option would be to take naps That's it

Because I just don't I I don't nap. I don't have time during the day I work 12-hour shifts yeah my body does not I don't nap even on weekends my body just doesn't relax I don't know what when are you actually getting the workouts in on Saturdays Mondays and Wednesdays Saturdays I'm off Mondays I work eight hours Wednesdays I work ten hours we're gonna put you on MAPS 15 so you have more time. Yeah. And you need to sleep.

Five to six hours a night is absolutely detrimental. There's no way around it. There really isn't. Now, are you drinking caffeine? I drink by 10 o'clock in the morning and it's just because I'm tired like I take medication for daytime sleepiness what if not I fall asleep driving so I'm on medication for that to keep me awake during the day but I try to drink it

before 10 a.m. yeah but in order to get me through the day is like... That's why you can't sleep? Well I have a lot like I also have bipolar depression anxiety and OCD so I take a lot of medication for that too so I don't know if that has anything to do with my sleep issues because I do have... I take a lot of medication for sleep a lot. Yeah it definitely might but the the the wakefulness stuff, so I'm assuming you're taking something like Adderall during the day to keep you awake? No, um, Medaphyllin. Okay, so Medaphyllin. Yeah, Medaphyllin. Yeah, so that plus caffeine will definitely make it hard for you to take a nap. For sure. For sure. It'll be hard to go to sleep. Yeah, so you know, I would

I would talk to your doctor and say, look, I want to try to be able to take a nap during the day. I need to work with my medication in a way that allows me to do this because at this point what you're doing is you're really burning things out. And it's going to be very, it's not good just not for your body, it's also not good for your brain. So I would say, hey hey look, here's the deal I want I need by the way I don't know if you know this or the data on this but the effects of poor sleep on anxiety and OCD and depression are profound

So yeah, so so it's like listening to you and now I know yeah Yeah, so I would talk to your doctor and say look I've seen the studies on poor sleep I've seen what it does for depression and anxiety and OCD all the things that I'm that I'm struggling with I Need to get more sleep. I would like a schedule or I'd like to work with my medications in a way To where I'm able to take a nap at least Okay, and I want to see how that's gonna work and and do it slowly and do it slowly So that's the that would be my advice to talk to your doctor. This is exercise is concerned It's gonna be massive. Yeah, massive teen is the way to go

Over here, Lisa Is this a is this like a just a period of time in your life where? You're gonna do this job or this shift or this way or is this like I've been doing this job for 30 years Shit Wow Wow or this shift or this way or is this like? No, I've been doing this job for 30 years. Holy shit. Wow. Wow. Yeah. You're an animal. That's rough. I can't. This is my job. This is pretty,

I don't know when I'm gonna leave this job. Like I love my job. I love being there. Like it's just, yeah. So I don't know. And it's just, like there's no nap during the day. I work all day. There's no nap. I work in the operating room. I'm surgical tech. There's no nap and turn today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get that on my feet all day. So and then the maps 15 I bought it. But like, on the days that I worked whole hour shifts, I can't do it. So I can't, I'd only be able to do it four days a week. Is that enough? That's okay. No, no, no, that's fine.

That's okay. That's perfectly fine. You just stay on schedule. In other words, when you can work out, I do workout one. When I can work out, I work out two. Oh, I can't work out, okay, I don't work out. And then the next one is workout three. So you just follow the schedule

and it's not gonna look like a perfect week. Does that make sense? You just follow. Yes, I listened to your podcast today where you were telling somebody that, yeah. Do that. Follow that and then talk with your doctor. You work in the medical field, so find and sit down with them and say, look, here's a

deal. I need to be able to get more sleep. I know it's impact on some of my symptoms, but I want to do it in a way to why I don't crash out. So I want to do it in a way that's slow and easy and I want to give myself some time, but I need to be able to at least take, because that nap during the day could very well be absolutely transformational. And it could lead to a lot of alleviation of your symptoms.

It could, it definitely could. I'm not saying it will, but it could. But the data on five to six hours a night of sleep and its connection to all the things that you said are strong. It's very strong. In fact you know there's there's a lot of data showing that getting more sleep solves those issues for most people. For many people I should say. Yeah when I don't get, when I fall into that two to three hours I go into manic episodes and things like that but I've been on sleep meds for like 25 years now.

Yeah this may take two or three years of fiddling and going down this process but you are really burning things out. It's gonna make things so much difficult so difficult for anything fitness or health related just very very difficult. I'm so impressed with how you sound. You sound so much better than somebody who's only getting that kind of sleep. You're very resilient. My therapist does not, she's like, I've never seen anybody survive.

I was gonna say, you are a savage. You are an absolute savage. I just, I can't believe that you sound as full of energy as you are, considering the way you're burning the candle, and for how long you've been doing it for. I'm assuming you live like, are you like in the suburbs and you drive into the city?

Is that the city? Yeah, I live in in the suburbs and you drive into the city? Yeah, no I get it and I said if you work with them and do it and the goal is to do it as slow as possible Because obviously you because obviously with your work you can't you know You can't go into a situation where all of a sudden you can't work or all of a sudden you have You know it throws you into depression or manic episode. So a very slow... It's happened, and I've been out of work for like three months at a time, it's happened. Yeah, so that's why I say work very closely with them

and say I want to go as slow as possible. And then just try to nap. So that, what it might look like is this, by the way, there's some benefit to laying down with your eyes closed, and just trying to nap for 30 minutes. There's even benefit to that. So you might not fall asleep. But there is evidence that shows that that that's even beneficial. And you just practice it. And it's probably gonna take a while

before it works. Have you ever tried like any guided meditation or like a brain FM or anything to kind of listen to? No, I've been listening to you guys talk about the brain FM and um The program I'm on is warrior babe and somebody the other day Posted that on my page to try the brain FM. Mm-hmm. Yeah, they let you try it for 30 days for free I love that. I love you. There's a guided meditation part too That like to Sal's point, even if you can't fall asleep,

if you just put like an eye mask on, put your feet up in a chair, and just listen to it for 20 minutes. Even if it's five minutes. Yeah, like it is, yeah, something. Better than nothing, you know? Attempting that and then attempting to work with your doctor to slowly peel back

on maybe some of the medication would be the ideal situation. And Mass 15 is as much as I'd have you do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll get better results on it is what's going to happen. You will, yeah. No muscle, mommy? No, no, it's too much. Yeah, it's too much for where you're at.

No, no, no. I love it. Of course you do. Of course you do. Yeah, because you want to do more. You're glutton for punishment. No, Matthew, just get the 15 version eventually. No, you'll get stronger.

You'll get stronger and get better results on Math 15. Yes, yes, just get the 15 version eventually. Yeah, no, you'll get stronger. You'll get stronger and get better results on Matt's 15. Yes, yes, you will. So you think that's why my progress hasn't been great because I joined this program? Yes, yes. 100%. Someone like you, less is more for someone like you. For sure, for sure.

In fact, a very minimalist type of weight training program. Just because you're with that lowest sleep, that much work, you are too much stress. You're already working out full time. You're already working out. That's work. Your body perceives that as stress, just like lifting weights.

And so you're already maxing out all the time. The weight training program needs to be more conducive to your lifestyle. And so less is more for you. Aww. Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for the bad news. Hey listen, once you start seeing the results it'll be motivating because you'll know like oh my god I'm stronger. Yeah. Okay I starting to feel better. That's

what it's gonna be like. Yeah. I feel a little stronger, but I gained 15 pounds in eight months since I started this program. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I feel you. That's a lot. Lisa, are you in our private forum yet? No, sir. I'm gonna have Doug put you in there.

Yeah. That way you got direct contact to us. Okay. So as you go through this process, you talk to your doctor, you got questions, just reach out to us. Just message inside the forum. Let us help you. And yeah, let us help you through this process.

Because like Sal said, if we go the direction we need to go, this is not gonna be an overnight thing, it's gonna be a slow process and a little bit of trial and error and see what works best for you. But we definitely gotta work towards trying to get you more sleep. It's just too important.

And even if it doesn't work, I think just trying to nap daily is gonna give you some benefit Cuz I have I have a feeling you don't sit still Yeah, so laying laying down with an eye mask on listen to brain FM even if you don't fall asleep that's gonna benefit you Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much Next month I was trying to do a little body You'll get better results with math 15 than anything else. Yes, that's the right program for you

And at least this is why I'm gonna put you in the forum. You've got us Okay So feel free to reach out you got questions about what's going on or what you feel or what you notice reach out to us and we'll help guide you through it okay all right go get some sleep you know by the way I'm not even gonna pretend I'm not even gonna pretend to be able to help or whatever. She's had doctors obviously work with her for decades. And so the fear may just be,

like if I were to talk to her doctors, if I were a trainer and I get on the phone, I could imagine them saying something like, yeah, it sounds nice, Sal, but anytime we change anything, it throws her into this episode. And so it's- We don't know the history. Right, and so oftentimes what we do is we create

this dichotomy of like, this is good and this is bad, when in reality it's like, they're both bad, this is just less bad. So that might be the situation. But there is, I mean there's data on this, just sitting there for 20 minutes with your eyes closed. Speaking to our profession and what we are good at, less is more for this person.

Oh, 100% That we can guarantee and speak to what I can't guarantee that fits in here the medical Trainer this is what it would look like if I was her trainer. She would come train with me once a week We would do two exercises and the rest will be stretching mobility Yeah, it would be literally two exercises based stretch and stretch and mobility And I would trick her into relaxing in the workout. I've done this before, where I'm literally like, I'm trying to eat. That's it. 100%.

Calming her down. Massage, that whole day. Our next caller is Corey from Oklahoma. What's up, dude? What's happening? Hey, guys. I have goosebumps right now. This is awesome.

Where are you at right now? You're in a kid's club or something. Where are you at? Oh, you at right now? You're in a kids club or something. Where are you at? Yeah. Oh, I'm in a shared workspace. Oh, okay. I was just seeing, I was kind of expecting like foam or something

to help the kids to jump off. Like balling with plastic balls, go flying by. So what's happening, dude? How can we help you? Yeah. So first of all, thank you guys. You've made such a difference in not only my life, but in me passing along to my family,

not only my kids and my wife, but also my parents. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you. Thank you, man. Thank you. Love it. So, um, some stuff has changed since I submitted my question, but I'll just kind of run through my question and then update you guys on what I've done since. So cool. Uh, my, my health journey started in March of 2023. I'd quit drinking heavily, but still wasn't feeling great. I was around a hundred or around 280 pounds and I'm five, nine. I went to the doctor for TRT cause I thought that was my issue and it was way low as like a 152, but I was also my A1C was in the diabetic range. So that's when I got serious and, uh, got a, found a online coaching service that or my doctor recommended an online coaching service that just helped me

create healthy, sustainable habits. And I started walking and intermittent fasting and dropped like 40 pounds doing that, and then I was still kind of like the same shape, just smaller. So that's when I got serious and I found another online coaching service that, that focused on building muscle and stuff like that and dropped another 40 pounds, fell in love with lift and I was following their programming at that time and all that. So and then yeah, my, my wife and kids started coming along with me and doing the same stuff. And I don't know, I haven't calculated how many pounds we lost in our family. I bet it's close to 200 pounds.

So anyway, so I kept cutting until August of 2024, then a reverse and gained about a half a pound. And I gained about a half pound a week until March of 25. Since it had been in a slight cut, but not really losing weight. I've followed MAP since August 2024. I've done anabolic strong power lift. And when I wrote in was doing symmetry, which is my favorite of any of your programs. Love it.

Awesome. Nice. So even after the reverse only got to about 2500 calories a day, I've been stalled, eating 2,000 calories a day, mostly whole foods, 180 grams to 200 grams of protein. And I was tracking with macro factor. I've tracked since July of 2023. Part of me says, even if I never get leaner, I'll keep going because everything else in my life has improved, but I'd still like to lose the fluff.

I estimate my body fat at 25% and have broken past that. Is this what it looks like, or is there a way to keep progressing? Is this a mental block metabolic thing? So since then, here's what I've done. Um, I decided to take a break from tracking and transition to intuitive eating. I'm now averaging 2,800 to 3000 calories a day. Still focusing on protein, getting 180 to 200 grams daily and sticking to mostly whole foods, except for some ice cream here and

there. I put on a few pounds, but I feel amazing. The mindset freedom around my mindset, freedom around food and overall energy are all better without the constant focus on numbers. Also finished up symmetry symmetry which I absolutely loved and I'm now I'm back in anabolic restarting the cycle with fresh eyes. So what you got for me is this I so chat I put my photos into chat and it estimated my body fat at 20 percent. I'd like your input on that but do I just keep staying the course or? I would really love to

hear, it'd be interesting because I think you made a great decision. Basically you kind of reverse dieted and you did it in an intuitive way and gave yourself some freedom. I would, that's what I would have said before you told us that's the direction you went so I think that was a great decision. Be interesting to see where your body fat percentage went from those two like did it decrease while also increasing calories? Because if it did, that was a home run situation. Like, if you actually went from 2,000 calories from like a small cut you were doing, went to intuitive eating, had a bunch of freedom around food, actually

jumped your calories up to 2,800 and you didn't get fatter, that's a big, that's a win. If you actually lost any, even 1% of body fat, huge wins. So, and if that's the case, uh, and you think you, you got, you improved during that time, that means you're, you're more likely heading in the right direction of what your body wants and needs right now. Corey, let me ask you, how's your A1C now? How's your other blood markers? Everything improve a lot?

So I haven't tested my A1, or I haven't tested my blood markers in six months but yeah I mean everything's in healthy levels. You look great dude. You're looking great. Your pictures are popping up right now. You're not 25%. You're doing great. I'm gonna tell you this which I usually don't which typically I don't say. Don't change anything. Yeah right, listen, listen. Yeah. Wow. I'm gonna tell you this, which typically I don't say. Don't change anything. Yeah, I know, you're on point. No, no, you're on point, but I'll give you a little bit of advice, okay?

Make health the priority, which is what you've been doing. Stay the course on that. Don't worry about the mirror. Don't worry about body fat percentage. Because if you keep getting healthier, which is what you're doing, that mirror, that reflection will continue to change to look healthier. So don't even look at it,

because the second you take your eye off health and you start to focus on the mirror, it's gonna put a big wrench in this whole machine. So stay on health. Stay on health, mobility, strength, how I feel, energy, blood markers, do I feel good? You did the right thing with your diet, by the way, because here's what you did, I'll paraphrase it. I was tracking, the tracking felt unhealthy,

so I stopped tracking. So what you're doing is exactly what you need to keep doing, just stay like that. I actually think you're probably right around, if not in the Goldilocks zone, where you are having this beautiful exchange of you're building a little bit of muscle, you're losing a little bit of body fat, but the mental fuck of that,

because you're not seeing radical change from all the hard work you're doing, that gets to clients. They go, I know I'm putting in the work in, I know I'm making good food choices, but I don't feel like my body's moving fast enough, but the reality is you're actually in the most beautiful spot you can be. But psychologically, I get it. We've all been there and it's the mind fuck, but I'm telling you can be, but psychologically I get it. It's, it's, we've all been there and it's the mind fuck. But I'm telling you right now from an outsider looking in, huge success, huge success. Your transformation is incredible and you look great. And you're going to keep, you're going to keep progressing. Yeah. You're going to keep, so long as you keep health at the center, the second

it becomes appearance focused, it's going to be, it's going to's gonna it's gonna mess up the whole thing. But it's coming dude bro you look great. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah you look great. You've made a radical change and it's only I mean just keep having fun with the workouts bro. Keep enjoying the MAPS programs and getting strong and eating the way you're eating like you're in a really really good place. And if you just keep thinking to yourself like okay, okay, am I being healthy? Do I feel better? Let that be the compass and follow that. And then the mirror will follow.

It's gonna follow. The way you look is gonna continue to improve. But keep, and you're doing a great job. I love the fact that you, I love why you stop tracking. Like tracking can be good or bad, but the reason you said why you stopped is exactly why somebody should stop is because you're trying to make yourself healthy. Look how well it served you. It served you perfectly. I mean this is you're in that you're in a good spot. Yeah great calorie intake right

now the balance it sounds like you got nutrition keep prioritizing that protein keep lifting those weights and get trying to get strong and you're absolutely on the right track. dude. Awesome, yeah. Awesome. Again, just to give you, like, just to put things in perspective, you were on a fast track to diabetes. You were on a fast track to heart disease. You were on a fast track towards a lot of things.

You are on a completely different path now. Yeah. Completely. So yeah, don't change anything, man. Lady shift. Maybe one thing, a little bit of advice that might be good for you just to help with the mental battle. I think it'd be worth actually going and getting one of those like body fat tests and then don't check it for six months. Like literally just get it done. Have to go to, we can't even think of some of the names of the

ones that they have that do the underwater Wang or Dexter thank you pod. Yeah, Dex says by pod Go get a good one done and just so you have a baseline and then just put it aside Keep doing what you're doing for six months come back six months later and just just like some check check on yourself. Yeah You know, so I've done I've had three Dex's scans done The last one was in the first part of 24 and it pissed me off. So I've done I've had three decks of scans done the last one was in the first part of 24 and it pissed me off So I quit doing it Fine yeah, you refer to it later. Yeah, that's fine. You know here's a deal about body fat percentage, okay?

It doesn't matter it doesn't matter if you're healthy and you feel good and then and then also also Even for how you look body. I'll talk about extreme aesthetic focus sport, bodybuilding. Bodybuilders mess this up. They get so caught up on the body fat percentage that they go on stage and look like crap, and the guy with higher body fat quote unquote percentage actually beats them.

So it really, it doesn't matter unless it's way out of control, but you're fine. No, and the reason why I suggest or I like it is because it gives somebody like me really, really good like let's say you did that and let's just say for let's play it out worst case scenario. It comes back and you're not happy with the results. You stayed the same body fat percentage or maybe you went up 1% and you've done all this

work. It will tell me a lot about a lot of the things that you were potentially doing that you thought were ideal for you that I can adjust and do differently. What happens with a guy like you who's doing a lot of the right things you were potentially doing that you thought were ideal for you that I can adjust and do differently. What happens with a guy like you who's doing a lot of the right things and the Dexascan doesn't come out, you were actually probably cutting too much. You were probably... That's exactly what happened. And so... Looking back, that's what I was.

100%. 100% I know that's what happened to you because I could tell by the what you're doing all the... You were too low a calorie and what you did was you lost weight but you also lost muscle and so then the DEXA scan gives you kind of a shit result because you know you did all this great work and all but that's good information it's not like a bad thing it's just like oh wow I don't need to restrict my calories this much in fact my body's trying to tell me that it will all do better and you did the right thing by pumping them up and then I bet you money you'll see a more positive result. And so that's why I like I like it for that reason.

Sounds right. It doesn't mean shit, whatever. But when you when you're doing all the things you're doing and you're just kind of checking in every six months, it could really tell a coach like myself a lot about, oh, like, yeah, you did a lot of right things. But the thing that we could have done is we could have fed you a lot more than what we did, and that's why we saw what we saw. That's exactly probably what happened.

You know what, I'm gonna book another one. It's time. Yeah, and just listen, approach it, not as a competition with yourself. I need to be assertive. It's like, this is just data. I'm just collecting some data right now, because let me tell you, I've been doing this

for a long time, and I still get Dexter scans that I'm pissed where I'm like what the fuck? Okay so that'll never end bro that'll you'll you'll but that's every time you do it it's it's giving you more and more insight on the variables that you're changing and you'll just sharpen you'll get sharper and sharper about how you do that so yeah but you're treated like that. You know one that. One of the things that I'm trying to do is that recognize the small things. Like this morning, my wife and I went and took a walk, get back, take a shower, and I'm bending over to tie my shoes and I just start laughing.

I'm like, you know what? It is so cool to be able to bend over and tie my shoes. It's very on a conversation and keep breathing. It's awesome. It's awesome. Yeah, you're doing great. Yeah, God bless you. Considering you don't have a coach who's taking you through this whole process, you,

you're doing all the right things, bro. You're doing really good. So I've had a coach up until about, about the time that I started doing intuitive eating and it just, um, bless their hearts. They don't have the same view of the world that you guys do. So I think I'm better off just listening to the podcast. You are maybe I'll do one of your coaching services at some point. I was gonna say if you ever consider doing that, we do have coaches underneath us now that that all 100% are behind our philosophy. So but you're doing great.

You do. I don't think you need anything right now. But if you ever wanted to turn it up or take it to the next level, you absolutely could reach out. We'll take care of you. Yeah I actually I've had a conversation with Kyle and he's like well you want to do that do you want to build muscle lose body fat? I'm like I don't know he's like well why are we talking? It was cool. Alright man good stuff Corey. Right on man. Okay thank you guys. Take it easy brother. What a success story. Yeah.

What a great success story. Man, so glad he had sent the pictures in. I know. Well, you know, it's also good for people to hear this because the whole second guessing thing, it just screws people up. It's like, I'm doing great, and then I'm going to second guess, second guess, second guess.

And I do think it's important on a regular basis to reflect, reflect, reflect, because you need outside eyes. Yeah. And then you see, like, oh yeah, like you just said, that was a big to big deal. People don't realize that, like bend over to tie your shoes. You know, we take that for granted. And so that's a wonderful realization.

I wanna point out something that happens to a majority of people, and there's so many people this happens to, that get that DEXA scan, and it comes back bad. Did that he didn't move any body, it didn't do well at all after he had just done six months or a year of dieting and trainings. Like that will just take somebody and they're done.

Like why, why, why all this work? Even though they had all this other improvements, all this stuff. And so, you know, kudos to him to still have the willpower, the discipline to keep moving forward after all the hard work and then seeing a negative result on the desk camp. But I can't tell you how common this is. And I'm glad that he knew right away what it was.

It was like, this happens a lot where people cut too hard, too fast, and they lose fat, they lose, the scale goes down. So they think they're doing such a great job, but what happened was they cut too hard and fast and they lost fat, the scale goes down, so they think they're doing such a great job, but what happened was they cut too hard and fast and they lost just as much muscle. And then that on the DEXA scan does not report back good news to you and then all of a sudden you just throw out everything

because you're like, oh fuck it. But it's like, no, no, no, this is good information. It was like. In fact, he said it, is it my metabolism? Well, your metabolism's good, bro. You're healthy. Our next caller is Robert from Maryland. What's up, Robert?

Hey, what's going on, Robert? What's happening? Hey, what's going on, guys? How you doing? Good, good. How you doing? Good, good. Got two questions for you.

All right. Well, first of all, thank you for everything. You put out all the content, all the free information that you put out. It's been helpful to me. I've tried to pass it along to a lot of other people that I know. It's really provided a lot more knowledge to me than I thought tried to pass it along to a lot of other people that I know. It's really provided a lot of more knowledge to me than I thought I've known. And I've been trading for 32 years.

So thank you. Love that. Right on, man. My question is when I do pull ups on an overhand or even a neutral grip, I've developed an issue on my left forearm, just about the elbow, you know, halfway down the forearm to where when I do pull-ups, it hurts. When I do pull-downs, it does irritate. And even just recently, when I've done alternating dumbbell upright rows, it starts to irritate my left forearm. I've tried a couple different things to alleviate it.

I stayed away from those exercises to have it not irritate. And my second question is my right shoulder starts to hurt when I do a bench press, incline bench, overhead press. I've moved away from barbell work and I've gone to dumbbell work which seems to help with any kind of those issues. Where's the shoulder pain? Let's start there. Where's it hurt? In front of the shoulder? On the lateral head. On the lateral head, right? It's probably an issue with your stabilizers, infraspinatus, superspinatus,

maybe a little bit of an impingement issue. And a forearm is the brachioradialis likely, so the top of the forearm right here, which does a little bit of pronating and supinating. Okay, so now that we know what the muscles are, why are they hurting and why do they keep hurting? Typically it's because somebody's doing too much. So let's talk about your routine, your workout program.

What does that look like? Well, I know that for pull-ups, I was doing, I started doing pull-ups late last year for the first time regularly. And I started at one and I built up to seven. But then of course the problem developed, so I had to stop. What about everyone else?

I'm working on a team right now. I just did two weeks of the Maps 15 so I jumped out of the aesthetic. It's two weeks of Maps 15 and I jumped back into phase three of aesthetic. But I've lowered the volume as far as sets. How long have you been, before aesthetic what'd you do? I did max 15.

For how long? For the whole program. Okay, you're gonna probably need to stay in something a little longer and I would suggest to see a physical therapist, they're the best with correctional exercise, so I would suggest seeing them to get some correctional exercise

and then giving yourself a longer period of time of deload, okay? These sound like overuse type issues. And you need to develop some stability in your shoulder to kind of get rid of that. But if you keep going back to high volume training, it's gonna be very difficult. Yeah.

We, I do wanna give you prime pro because the movements most likely your therapist is going to do with you are going to come from there. The most valuable thing that you're going to get from going to see a therapist, because I think you could actually, we could get to the bottom of this by Prime Pro and Prime. I mean it's common, what you're saying is common. It's very common and I definitely think we could get to the bottom of this. But the value of the therapist is to have a professional next to you, watching

you move with intent and cueing you live and going like, Oh no, see right there where you were, you're sure to roll that shoulder around. I want you to depress that. And like that way they can, they can see you in real time, cue your body. And then you know, Oh, okay. Then you could take the knowledge that you're getting from the therapist and apply a lot of the stuff that we have in prime pro. So I think it's worth at least a visit to go He's figuring out your range and where you know some of those

Deficits lie and how we can kind of like get to that point Of stress and then we back off so it really building up strength support and stability around These joints is going to help quite something for your For your shoulder, what I would do with you is before we do a set, is I would really press down hard on the trap, all the way up and down the trap. I put a lot of pressure there. It's going to hurt. Get it to release a little bit. Then we'd go light with the shoulder press, but we'd focus on scapular depression because

what's probably happening is there's a little dysfunction with the scapula and the humerus. It's just causing some impingement. Wall circles. And then we would do some mobility stuff like wall circles. And then with the forearm, we would also do some myofascial release. And then we would also work on wrist and finger mobility. If you want the best correctional exercise spec, are you in our forum? I'm not. Okay, I'm gonna put you in our forum. I want you

to tag Dr. Justin Brink and then I want you to work with him. Now he's, I don't, okay I see where you're located. He's in where, Utah? No, he's Idaho. Idaho, sorry. He can work with you virtually as well. Yeah, he does remote. He'll work with you virtually. He's the best correctional exercise specialist I know. Period end of story. Yeah. Tag him once you get in the forum and set up some appointments with him and he'll fix you. Like that guy is a genius when it comes to this kind of stuff. Yeah I'm on the wait list for a physical therapist now and it's been about two weeks and they said it might be about a month but I am on the wait list for them. So Dr. Brink is gonna cost

money but he's the best. There's nobody I've ever, I've never, I've worked with physical therapists, and by the way, physical therapists are amazing, I love them. I've never known anybody as good as Dr. Brink. Yeah, he's a wizard specialist. Yeah, like one or two sessions virtually, and you'll get to the bottom.

I'm gonna have Doug send you over our Prime Pro, because there's stuff in there that you can practice and do yourself That would be good and you're you're gonna focus on all the the wrist and shoulder stuff That's the main thing you're gonna focus on and then get it will put you in the private forum and then post basically post and tag Dr. Brink and so it's Justin Brink. Yeah, and he'll get on it right away. Yep. Yeah, he's the man with that kind of And then whenever it's our people too, he tends to put you to the front of the line.

And just so you know, the two things that you mentioned are super common. Yep. So I've worked with that. I've had so many clients with those exact same issues. We fix it, never comes back. So it's not a big deal. Okay.

Yep. We got this. We'll fix this for sure. Well, thank you for your advice and everything you do. And don't worry about sending it to me. I'll go on. I support you guys. I'll go on and I'll pick it up It's not a problem. Give it to somebody else that maybe has a little more difficult time. I can you've already got it Don't worry you're gonna have to spend money on Dr. Brink

We'll send it to you anyway, we already sent it to you already said that to you brother. Oh, thank you Thank you. I appreciate it. You got it my friend. I'm at I said that to you, brother. Oh, thank you, thank you. I appreciate it. You got it, my friend. All right, man. Common. Yeah, oh, very.

Very common. Very, very. So the problem is, did he mention what it is for a living? I kept trying to think about that too, in terms of overuse. He was doing a lot of those patterns throughout the day. I mean, literally what it would look like with a client,

because that was common, is I'd smash down, it would take me like 10 minutes, then I'd have them with no weight lift their arm up, but I'd depress the scapula while they're moving up and then I'd have them tilt their neck to stretch the scalene. Three obvious compensations. Yeah, and then you'd suddenly like no more pain

but then you'd need to do correctional exercise afterwards. Yeah. Our next caller is Sam from France. Hey, welcome back. How you doing, Sam? What's up, buddy? Hi guys, how are you? Good, good.

Good, how can we help you? Yeah, can you hear me okay? Yeah, how are you? Good, good. Good, how can I help you? Yeah, can you hear me okay? Yeah, we got you. Uh huh. Okay, well about three months ago, you gave me a challenge to stop tracking food and stuff. So I'm here for the update I guess. How'd it go?

I did it, so I didn't stumble or regaled back to what I was comfortable with. I have to say it wasn't always easy in some sense but if there's someone that was in my position that tracked for months or years on end I want to tell him that or her that just even though I don't have the same influence as you guys have on me to take a break and I too was reluctant because I didn't want to lose performance or gains or get fat or lose muscle, but it's not that deep and I understood that it was for the better and since I was pretty much addicted to tracking and seeing my body change, I can tell you that I didn't lose anything and that I became much healthier, I guess. That's the, even though that's a bit, yeah, that doesn't say as much, but I gained muscle

actually and performance and it was as a by-product to focus on being healthier and focusing on my sleep. And I'm not some genetic freak or some athlete child or something like that. I'm a normal guy that just likes to lift weights and that went from hating some part of my body to changing it and to wanting to take care of ourselves. So I can thank you for that. And as for the specifics, at the beginning I cheated a little, so I just ate the same as I ate before. But after a few weeks.

Yeah, but I didn't binge or anything. I just like, yeah, it was like cheating in a sense because that's not real life. You already knew, you already knew the calories. And um but I have to say before you gave me this challenge what I did was I used to when I had something on my plate I had to finish it you know and I heard a lot a lot of on the podcast like this bad um habit to like you have to finish your plate and anything it's not from my parents or anything because they are not like that

but I had this this this thing in mind that I had to finish my plate and stuff like that so now I don't have a problem to like to operate for the next day or something like that I experimented more with fasting and even though I still thought a lot about food and what I was going to eat next, even right after a meal, I tried to listen to my body more and I never slept better. I don't know if it's the change in programming or the less stress about food or stuff like that, But really, sleep was always a weak point of mine. I always get myself nine hours in bed, but I couldn't sleep more than seven and a half.

And now I get more than eight, eight and a half. So it's like really life-changing in a sense. I tracked sleep, as I said, I tracked steps a little, but I was also less obsessive on steps. Beforehand, I had to like, I checked my fit bit just like that every few seconds and now I just get my steps, I stay active and I try to move a little to just stay healthy and stuff. And I won't say it was always easy as I said because I'm reading off my notes right now

because I had to write it to get a clear picture of what I had to go through. But I still have problems with the way I look at myself and my self-esteem. I related to my leanness, how my abs pop, how do I have love handles, stuff like that. And even though objectively I'm not fat it's always like a weak point of mine but with the help I got you're of course you guys do I don't know if you realize the I guess you do because of all the the color but the influence you have on on young men like me and young women that's that can understated. I think you, I don't know if you do realize how much of an influencer, how better you make our lives feel.

And from your, thanks to your accountability and help from my family and friends, I realized that I wasn't my body and I deserve to be loved and to love myself. So, and taking care of myself in a true sense, I realized that I wasn't my body and I deserve to be loved and to love myself. And taking care of myself in a true sense, like trying to live what I preach because I want to become eventually someone that helps people to do the same stuff I am doing right now and help others with their physical body and their mental health and stuff like that. Just feel loved and careful from

myself first in the in the first place and then from others. That's that's really made an impact in my life. So I don't know if I can thank you. Wow. Wow. Thank you, Sam. Sam. Good job. Yeah, good job, man. That's great. Most attractive thing about you is your confidence now. How you feel? Mentally you must feel so different Yeah, it was it was actually I don't know if I think it was because of your influence because it just dropped I dropped the tracking I didn't open but secretive ever since I didn't look at the back of the labels I just ate like at the beginning. It was not intuitive because I was doing the same thing

But then the last few weeks I just experimented with some other foods I experimented with less more fat less carbs stuff like that I just listened to my body what it told me and I'm trying to yeah to you know I'm listening to your most recent episodes and it's like so different from the listening to your most recent episodes and it's like so different from the, you know, I'm at the 300, 350 range right now, you know, of your episodes. It's like so different. You guys, you're really different, but you're really much the same in a sense, you know. It's not easy to, yeah, it was more about fasting and less protein at the time. And I'm very happy I got to witness all of that and to go even more in the,

yeah, because even in the 350 range, you were still like trying to censor a bit yourself to not to appear too harsh. And I heard that the really first ones were really like, yeah, really bad. So I can't wait to do some of those ones. Yeah, but it really is interesting because I get to see your perspective from 10 years ago. And now your perspective right now with faith, with religion, with relationships to your body and to food. So being confident and knowing that it's like supposed to help and improve my life and not like take away from it. That's yeah that

If I didn't discover you and I don't know how I discovered you guys if I didn't I think I would still be like going to failure seven days a week and Not eating enough and you know, it would Maybe eventually I would have found the truth. Maybe I would have burned out or injured myself So I yeah yeah you guys have Thank you. It's very encouraging. It's a journey. It's a journey Sam doing great bro. It's a journey for all of us. So good I appreciate you coming back on man. That's good. That's gonna help a lot of people. Yes You have a small yeah

Minute yes another question? Yeah. So, as I said, I want to become a coach or a personal trainer and I am going to change the degrees in a few months. And in this degree, it's like the French, I have to do like two or three years to have the accreditation to become a personal trainer and in this degree I'm going to do about three to four hours of like endurance sports and stuff like that and maybe a bit of expositive stuff so I wanted to ask you

if you would think I'd need to change my programming I'm doing symmetry right now and if I should do performance or performance 15 performance advanced or stuff like that I don't know. Yeah let's I'm gonna send right now. And if I should do performance or performance 15, performance advanced or stuff like that, I don't know. Yeah, I'm gonna send you all three because you're in school right now and it's gonna be good for you to learn from them. Yeah, so. You gotta have your speed map for each one.

I already have them. Ah, you're a good man. Yes, I think they're all valuable. Champion. Definitely. So start with math performance and then go into math 15 performance and then math 15 advanced is going to teach you a lot about you know really training athletes.

Okay so performance then performance 15 and then performance advanced. When are you going to be doing like endurance? What are you doing? This is for his education. No he's actually going to be doing physical activity. Yeah, I think so. In the curriculum we have two different courses. One is going to be in the first semester, so it's like a hundred meter run and one K and the other is I think team sports. And then on the second semester I'm going to have so strength training so that I already know about and what again? Athletism.

No, not athleticism, sorry. What do the guys with the rings do again? Gymnastics? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, no, that's right. Yeah, you're good. Yeah, you're good, dude. Yep. Yep. That's a cool course. Yeah. Very cool course. Keep that. Okay. Keep us updated, Sam. And then when the time comes, get you inside of our course to help you for becoming a personal trainer. Maybe you'll become already in it. You're already in it. International training. Yeah, representation. I said we need international trainers. So when, we need a representation for sure. I said we need international trainers, so when you're done give us a call.

You'd be our Mindpump France. Oh man, I would so much like to do that. About that, do you have any resources that I could follow? Some Instagram accounts that I already follow, your friend Jordan Sayat and people like that, but I don't know if you have any more we have a trainer one good yeah mind pump yeah my pump trainers yeah my pump trainers that I do follow you're good go enjoy your class learn a lot have fun you're on the right track good job dude yep stay stay close to us keep us updated all right appreciate that yeah man man. Thank you guys. Have a great day. You got it. Great job. So I didn't realize that. So it sounds like in France, he said it's a two-year degree to

become a personal trainer. And it sounds like they put you through, like you actually have to go and compete. It's awesome. Cool little curriculum. Very interesting. Yeah's interesting, very interesting. It's awesome. I'm very interested in seeing what that looks like. What great feedback. Yeah, it was cool. He's doing a great job, I love it.

He feels free, you can tell. I remember him from the first call. He's getting more sleep too as a result. I remember that first call, you can tell he was pained. You know, and was anxious over the whole thing. Tortured by it. Totally different, it's amazing. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram.

Justin is at Mind Pump Justin, I'm at Mind Pump DeStefano, and Adam's at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle

at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers But at a fraction of the price the RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money-back guarantee

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