Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2649: Top 9 Exercises for Each Body Part Based on EMG Research & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: July 26, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Top 9 Exercises for Each Body Part Based on EMG Research. (1:49) Addressing price concerns of the face serum from Caldera. (26:20) When Elmo gets hacked! (28:07) It’s getting wild out there on social media. (29:54) Shout out to the John Delony Show. (32:23) Horrific surrogate situation. (37:03) How inactive are we that our brains are atrophying? (43:42) Prediabetes in teens. (45:23) ‘Feral Summer’ trend. (48:33) Green juice to reduce inflammation. (57:04) #ListenerLive question #1 – Any advice for losing weight without taking phentermine? (59:29) #ListenerLive question #2 – From your perspective of high school programming, how do you think I should move forward with a very morbidly obese student? (1:10:52) #ListenerLive question #3 –  What program would be the best to optimize my benefits with my new hormone protocol? (1:28:03) #ListenerLive question #4 – How do you approach, A. Recognizing the challenges in a situation where you need some help? B. Identifying the best resource and getting over the hurdle of asking people for help. (1:39:45) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Caldera Lab for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MINDPUMP20 for 20% off your first order of their best products. ** Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** 7/23 - 7/25: Christmas in July - 1,000 free Green Juice travel packs + extra 15% off and free shipping with any 3 products. Free Shilajit with any 5 products! Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off. ** July Special: MAPS Split or Anabolic Metabolism Bundle 50% off! ** Code JULY50 at checkout ** The 12 Best EMG Backed Exercises For Every Muscle Group Mind Pump # 2517: Hip Thrusts vs Squats… Which Builds a Rounder Butt? Antisemitic posts appear on Elmo's X account after hack - CNN The Dr. John Delony Show - YouTube 21 children - all with surrogate mothers - taken from couple amid investigation Just 4,000 steps a day can lead to better brain health 1 in 3 teens have prediabetes, new CDC data shows - ABC News 'Feral summer' urges parents to let kids be kids Supplementation with a juice powder concentrate and exercise decrease oxidation and inflammation, and improve the microcirculation in obese women: randomised controlled trial data Visit Transcend for this month’s exclusive Mind Pump offer! ** From now through the end of the month, all medications are 30% off—no exclusions. Telehealth Provider • Physician Directed GET YOUR PERSONALIZED TREATMENT PLAN!  Hormone Replacement Therapy, Cognitive Function, Sleep & Fatigue, Athletic Performance and MORE! ** Mind Pump #2560: How to Break Free from Destructive Body Image Issues Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Layne Norton, Ph.D. (@biolayne) Instagram Dr. John Delony (@johndelony) Instagram Corinne Schmiedhauser (@mindpumpcorinne) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded and loved fitness and health podcast in the history of podcasting. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, live callers got to call in. We got to coach people on air, help them with their fitness health journeys. But this was after our intro,

today's intro is 57 minutes long. In the intro, this is where we talk about fitness and fat loss and studies around exercises, we talk about current events, family life, it's a great time. If you wanna be on an episode like this one, if you wanna be coached by us on air, email us your question at live at mindpumpmedia.com.

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Go to calderalab.com. That's C-A-L-D-E-R-A-L-A-B.com forward slash mind pump. The code mind pump 20 will get you 20% off. This episode's also brought to you by Organifi. Today we talked about their Green Juice. By the way, if you go on Organifi.com forward slash mind pump, when this episode airs, they're giving out

free Green Juice travel packs and an extra 15% off and free shipping with any three products plus free shillagee with any five products. This is massive. You can also use the code MINDPUMP and get 20% off. We also have a sale on some workout programs this month. MAPS split in the anabolic metabolism bundle. It's all 50% off. Head over to MAPS fitness products dot com. Use the code July 50 for the discount. Here comes the split in the anabolic metabolism bundle, it's all 50% off, head over to mapsfitnessproducts.com, use the code July 50 for the discount. Here comes the show. Is there a scientific way with data

to show which exercises are the best for each body part? Proponents of EMG studies, this is electromyography, which actually shows muscle activation quite accurately, would say yes, we know which exercises are best. Today, we're gonna list the best exercises for each body part based on these studies and we're either gonna agree or disagree based on our experience.

Let's get into it. Yeah. I like this, I like this thing. Let's decide. First, I mean, set the table for, I think this is actually one, this is an interesting topic to me. It is.

It's a bit controversial. It is because there's a lot of people, especially on the science side, smart, educated people that want to make the case for this being the end-all be-all when it comes to what exercises are superior. They're based off of the research that we've seen, based off of EMG. How much activity they can see.

And I think most people hearing from these people that are supporting this because they're typically very intelligent, they're using a study to support their argument, people just fall right for the bias. The problem is this doesn't tell the full story. That's right. And I think that's the area where hopefully we can step in and share a little more of the nuance and then maybe with that paired with some of these things, because I'm not saying that they're worthless. I think it tells us something, but I don't think it nearly tells the full story. Agreed. So these studies measure

muscle activation. You can explain this, let's say, as a percentage of maximum voluntary contraction, how many muscle fibers are being activated. So it's definitely valuable. The problem is that doesn't necessarily mean the most muscle growth, which we'll get to. And this also doesn't take into consideration individual variances, how you perform the exercise,

if it's appropriate for you, what your technique looks like, and so forth. And we've trained people for many, many years. And when you talk to coaches and trainers who've done this, sometimes you get a different answer because of their experience. So I'm gonna go off of, and we're going to talk about what the studies show, what the EMG studies show to be the absolute best.

And as we talk about them, I'll read what the studies actually show in comparison to certain popular exercises, for example. And then I think we can throw in kind of our opinion on it. So we'll start with chest. Now chest, the EMG studies show that the dumbbell chest press has the best activation. That it activates the most muscle fibers. In fact, I'll pull up the study here,

I'll pull up the study itself and it shows that you have 100% of pectoralis major activation versus, because what exercises typically. Barbell. The barbell bench press. Barbell bench press. Barbell bench press gets 95%. So 5% better on the EMG study for chest activation

than the barbell, yet you often time hear coaches. Limited on load. Refer to the bench press, yeah. So let's talk about that a little bit Justin yeah, let's talk about that because as we know like Having two dumbbells like we're we're limited based upon so let's say even have like a hundred on each side when I could have A barbell I could stack a substantial more amount of weight And be more effective

The thing is like this is gonna turn it to more of a compound lift a substantial more amount of weight and be more effective. The thing is, like, this is gonna turn into more of a compound lift, and so I'm gonna have a little bit more muscle activation throughout my body as opposed to just an isolated muscle group that I'm testing. Yeah, so, you know, metabolic stress and mechanical tension or load also drive muscle growth, so can you lift more total weight with a barbell than you can with dumbbells yeah yeah 100% like I don't know very many guys

who could bench press 315 who can also handle 155 pound dumbbells that's pretty rare it's pretty rare that it's equal it typically looks like I can bench press this much and then it's substantially lower total load when I handle dumbbells because there's There's the you have to balance them. There's stability more stability is involved You have to be able to pick them up and carry them put them in position Yeah, I mean that's a great point Adam like practicality. Yeah most like that's real life Most of the time that you see guys that can do,

I got to a place where I was mirroring it. That was a very specific goal for me. I went on a kick for, it was at least a year, maybe even longer, where I was like, can I get my dumbbells to match my bench press? There's obviously a lot of focus on that. And even when I did get to that, where I was able to do 150 dumbbells it took a you know

it took a guy or two setting him up on my knees and spotting behind me and it was like such the effort just to try and match 315 and that's not even my max bench press but just to get to where I was able to work out with those weights and what I could easily do on the barbell by myself was a lot of a lot of effort to even be able to do that. And a lot of focus. There's a lot of expended energy just on stabilizing that weight, which you're gonna have to account for that. Whereas with a barbell, you can distribute that pretty

effectively. I'm curious as far as how they could test more in terms of the overall force output versus just muscle activation recruitment. Now, I do want to also, because I hear this is when I look at your list, I peeked ahead, right? I'm seeing with the ones, there's ones on here that I think I would argue and then there's ones like this, like, sure.

I think you're not going to go wrong. Exactly. The dumbbell chest. That's my point. No, it's good. I see. And you could actually never do a barbell bench press and I will build you the most epic chest ever doing that. Because it is a great, I also like that it's a greater range of motion and that it actually

follows a much more natural path for the individual versus a fixed pathway on the bar. That's right, because your hands a fixed pathway on the bar. That's right, because your hands can come together at the top. That's right. And so I'm a big fan of a dumbbell bench press. I think if all you do is barbell bench press, you are missing out by not dumbbell pressing. I agree, but I will go back to what you said, Adam,

because we have to look at real life and handling heavy dumbbells, just getting them off the rack, bring them to the floor, bring them up on knees, the technique to bring them back is not easy. It's actually not easy. As you start to get real strong, that expends energy. That makes it unwieldy.

In fact, oftentimes I avoid the dumbbell chest press not because the barbell's so much better, but because of that. I gotta grab the 120s and put them on. For personal, right? That's right. That being said, I bet you guys are similar to me, is I taught dumbbell chest press with clients

more than I did barbell bench press. Yeah. Most clients. It was easy for me to handle for them. Because range of motion stability was way more important. Yeah. Yes, exactly. So that was, and the way I could guide them

and help them. That's right. I just, so. It's easy to bail. I way I could guide them and help them. I just so Bail I would say a dumbbell chest press was more of a staple in my programming than even a barbell bench press But if I were to look at my own training Barbell bench press for the reasons that you just brought up is a go-to so but of all the ones on here This is not the one I would die on the hill. No, even based on EMG, you're talking about 5% difference. That's probably, yeah, if you count load, is it gonna make a difference?

It's not substantial. Probably not. All right, next we get to back. Wide grip pull-ups showed some of the best activation. I would die on this hill. This is the hill I would die on. Yeah. For the lats.

No. Well, let me get to it, right? So 90 to 95% activation for the lats and high activation for traps and rhomboids 70 to 80%. Here's the deal. Wide grip pull-ups require a certain amount of stability, mobility, and strength that most people don't have. And so, ask me how many of my clients I had them do wide grip pull-ups. Rare. If they did pull ups, it was typically a neutral grip, shoulder width.

Or it's assisted somehow. That's right. And it also doesn't address what most people need, which is to be able to strengthen that back shoulder position, which most people have an issue with because we work at desks all day long and our shoulders are forward.

And personally speaking, I love pull-ups a lot. This makes its rotation in my workout quite often. Is it number one? Eh, probably two or three. Functional exercise. Yeah, no. A row or actually a deadlift is gonna go and replace here for me. I mean just the barbell row is far more, I think, overall functional. I think that I can load it eventually a lot more than I could to Y-Grip. It doesn't require the same type of mobility, stability, and even just basic strength because a lot of people can't even pull themselves up one time on that. Not a bad exercise. No, no. I love it. And okay if

you're listening to this and you don't do that ever, what a great goal to say, hey, I'm going to get strong at the wide grip pull up and I bet if you've never focused on that, you'll see some incredible change. Stronger overall. Yeah. And I bet great development from that, I think. So I do think, again- But most people would benefit from getting really good at rows versus a wide grip pull

up, although both are very, very, very beneficial. from getting really good at rows versus a wide grip pull-up. Although both are very, very, very beneficial. Yeah. So, next is deltoids. Dumbbell shoulder press. So, dumbbell shoulder press, 85, 90% activation from both the anterior and medial head of the deltoid. That's the front and the side of the delts.

Not surprising based off of what was shown for the chest. Yeah. For the same similar reasons. Yep, and it's got better activation than a barbell. It's got a greater range of motion. I would argue it's better for overall shoulder health. You could do this. I think you could totally do this and you'd be okay.

But like you said, Adam, same challenges that you would run into with a barbell versus a dumbbell and just the overall load you could do with a barbell, you will never be able to match with a dumbbell. Well, and again, another example of, if I look back to all my clientele, I dumbbell shoulder press way more than I barbell shoulder press.

I had a handful of clients that load was really important and we needed to have over 200 pounds on the bar in order for them to keep growing. Most my clients never grew out of dumbbell pressing and and also easier

for me to spot support coach most clients deal with upper cross syndrome. Most clients have those protracted shoulders don't have good shoulder mobility So putting anything overhead already we have like this risk factor You know even bracing the lower back There's a lot of things there that like you can kind of work through a lot more effectively with dumbbells So I would tend to use those a bit more but then work towards the barbell Press any added benefit you guys think, too,

because the shoulder's a floating joint and so to do a movement that requires more stability, would you? I think if you got really good at dumbbell, full range of motion, dumbbell shoulder press versus barbell shoulder press, you're probably gonna have better function in the shoulder joint with the dumbbell

than you would with the barbell. But a full range of motion barbell shoulder press is awesome, too. It's just the dumbbell, I mean I can bring it way down here, I can come off the side. That spiral line, that diagonal sort of movement there which is healthy and beneficial. That's right. So this one I could get with for sure. Quads barbell back squat 74% activation for the quads with about 43% for glute. This is what they rated number one?

I actually thought it was, I thought they rated hack squats as number one. No, barbell back squat seems to have the best. Not even front squats. Yeah, and it's close, it's pretty close. This I agree with. Yeah, yeah. It's the best exercise.

I mean, leg press is a limited range of motion. Back squat does so much for the whole body. It's a fundamental human movement to be able to do. No arguments for me on this. And then when it comes to- I'm surprised they didn't say leg extension or something. I know, it's so funny when they show those EMG studies. Leg extension, why waste your time?

Yeah, why waste your time? Nobody's ever built big quads from doing, you know, nice quads from doing leg extensions. Yeah, I actually thought they had hack squats as one, leg extension as two, and I didn't think, I thought back squats was like three for me. No, and this is based off of analyzing all the data. I actually used AI to go through all the EMG studies.

Interesting, okay. So you might find one or two that show a little bit better. Okay. By the way, here's a funny thing, okay? Again, we're gonna go back to individual variants. If I have, now this isn't common, but let's say I have a client, or you're the kind of person that is

like hip extension or glute dominant. So your squat, you have this interesting looking squat where you don't get much knee flexion and extension. Like you really sit back with it. And you'll sometimes see this with a low bar squat. Powerlifters will do this. Lanes squats like this. Yeah, to generate the most amount of power and strength.

I could see them getting more quad activation from a hack squat or even a leg extension because the way that they do the squat relies so much on the hips versus more than the quads. I mean, what you're touching on right now, I love this conversation because even with all the great studies around the EMG, even with all the great studies around the EMG, even with us agreeing and some of this stuff like that, there still becomes

an exception to the rule and a good coach and trainer recognizes that and sees that, okay, I have somebody who has a low bar squat where they slide back into their hips and a lot of the glutes and posterior chain is involved. And hey, right now we're trying to focus on quads. Like yeah, front squat, hack squat, other movements become better, even though the studies and the research might point to the back squat in that situation.

Well, that's generally speaking and in that study, but I bet they didn't take a hundred and all hundred people squatted like Lang Norton does. And if they did, it would look different. So you have to always be able to consider that too. That's right. Next up, hamstrings, Nordic curls. Now I agree that you probably are gonna get the most of it.

This is brutal. Good luck getting one to do these. But I don't know very many people that can do this without hurting themselves. I only had a couple clients. Not a lot. This is a very high tension exercise requiring very strong hamstrings

with lots of stability. By the way, the Nordic Curl outperforms a leg curl on a machine precisely because you also have to stabilize your upper body as you go down, so you get a little bit of that extension that the hamstrings, that stabilization that the hamstrings provide. But yeah, if you line this up with other hamstrings, I would guess it's gonna be the Nordic Curl. But good luck if you line this up with other hamstrings, I would guess

it's going to be the Nordic Curl. But good luck finding someone who could do this. Yeah, this wouldn't be mine, right? So this would be a stiff leg of deadlift right here for me. Yeah, because I could do that with anybody. That's right. Very easy, basic movement for a lot of people, but so, so valuable. In fact, right now I can only literally think of two clients I was able to do Nordic Curls with my entire career. I probably even do Good Mornings before I do these.

Yeah, and I don't even know if I could do these right now if I tried them. I haven't done them in so long. Not with the assistance. I'd have the assistance with the pole. Yeah, it's just not- There's ways that, by the way, the point where I could- You could use straps and poles. Yeah, there's a lot of ways to regress this movement But again why when I can go right to another movement that I think is so important

I think a learning how to do a proper stiff leg a deadlift is such an important There's also the functional component. You're far more likely to lift something off the ground Than you are to do a Nordic curl in real life. So in exercise by the way strength This is very important for people to understand. Strength is as much of a skill as it is your muscles contracting. In other words, you could have muscles that contract way harder than another guy.

Like we could test your individual muscles and they're bigger and they can generate more force. But that guy practices a particular movement and has a skill, right, and you don't. Then you go do the movement and suddenly they can lift more than you. Why? Because movement and has a skill right and you don't then you go do the movement and suddenly they Can lift more than you yeah, why because strength is also skill not practicing hip hinging Which you're going to do in your life all the time

Is missed opportunity missed opportunity Nordic curl like have you guys ever done Nordic curl in real life? I've never never in my life had to pick myself up. Oh on a second. Yeah, that's never happened, okay. Glutes, here's where we might get a little controversy, the hip thrust. Hip thrust, you get 70 to 80% muscle activation of the glutes, compared to 52% that you'll get with let's say a squat, because the argument's always what grows the glutes more squats, or hip thrusts.

Now here's what's funny, I have studies that compare muscle growth, okay? And this is exactly what we're talking about. When you look at the studies on growth, guess what, they're both pretty damn close. In fact, the studies suggest that the squat might be a little tiny bit better at growing the glutes than the hip thrust. So yeah, the hip thrust in the EMG study

is at 70 to 80% activation, where the squat's only 52%. So if you based it off that, you would think you would see a big difference in hypertrophy. The studies that actually measure the end result, which is growth, actually show no difference.

And I think the case that you're trying to make here, because I don't think anyone here is trying to make the case to like, you don't need hip hip thrust or hip thrusts aren't good. It's not that I think that squats This is another another check mark in the in the category of squats are better for this reason you the last three quads hamstrings and glutes you get from squatting and If you get really proficient at that the carryover into all those gets greater too. And so what as a trainer programming for someone doesn't mean I'm never gonna do hip thrusts it means I'm primarily going to get really good at the squat with my client

and every once in a while we might do some hip thrusts because it does have great benefits to it. It'll accompany it. But I'm gonna get really good at back because in fact your your point with the back squats even for quads it's so good it's like this would be an example of where maybe they front squat a little bit because I still want them squatting for that but then for glutes we're gonna make sure we back squat and so they're getting lots of squatting and lots of squatting is gonna make them really good at squatting getting them really good at squatting is gonna

make them strong in all those areas. Right now again another wrench in this whole conversation him strong in all those areas. Right. Now, again, another wrench in this whole conversation, there are people where glutes, where hip thrusts are going to be superior for glutes. And these are people that have trouble connecting to the glutes when they squat. Yep. Now, so this is where I think EMG studies are excellent. If you're that person that has trouble connecting to a muscle in conventional,

well-regarded exercises that you're supposed to do for that body part. Like if you're that person that's like, man, I squat and I never feel my glutes, my quads get a pump, I'm building my quads, my glutes don't seem to be growing at all, it's because of your technique and how the squat is being activated, is activating your body. These are the people that hip thrusts are going to be amazing for sure. And this is why hip thrusts on social media get so much love because the type of person,

the bias of the person that discovers the hip thrust and then raves about it is typically the person that just didn't get good activation from a squat. And so that person discovers the hip thrusts is like, there's my glutes, this is what I couldn't feel. Right, right. Which by the way, which causes these people to be, glutes, this is what I couldn't feel before. Which by the way, which causes these people to be, you know, die on that hill.

That's right, way better than squat. I was squatting my whole life and it never built my butt. All of a sudden I started hip thrusting and now I've built a butt. And again, there's general categories of great exercises. I think they're all good when you look at those general categories that are agreed upon. And then you have your individual variants where like,

man, I know you said that you feel this exercise more, but I feel this one more. You probably, it's probably better for you then. So listen to your body when it comes to that. Next up, this was an interesting one. For biceps, concentration curl, interesting. I would not place a concentration curl in the top five of big bicep building exercises.

I just wouldn't. I think it's the load. You're just not gonna lift as much as you would with a traditional standing curl or a barbell curl. Concentration curls are good, but it doesn't typically make the top four or five for best bicep exercise. That being said, we're talking about the biceps,

so almost any bicep exercise is okay. It's not a big deal. Yeah, I'm surprised that the reverse grip pull-up did not get- I don't think they tested it. Oh, they didn't even test it, probably. How many people do a reverse grip pull-up with emphasis on the bicep,

like, besides arm wrestlers? No one really does that. Yeah, that would be a cool EMG study thing, because I'd like- I think it would crush. Yeah, I think so too. Just in that stretch position like that and actually curling the body weight up.

The tension. I mean, to me it's like if Nordic curls wins for hamstrings, I would think that would win for biceps. Right, yeah, you gotta go to that level. We gotta get it more popular before it gets tested that way. The other reason why I think concentration curl probably measured high, the bicep does flex the elbow, but a lot of people don't realize this

because one of the heads of the bicep goes over the elbow, but a lot of people don't realize this because one of the heads of the bicep goes over the humerus or the top of the arm. It also brings your arm up a little bit. When I'm in that concentrated curl position, I'm often having to activate the bicep in two different directions, which you don't get a lot of sometimes in other exercises. Okay, I'm gonna speak upon the athletic side of the fence here. Like, what is the concentration curl exactly? Yeah, like for sports? No, just like, what position is your arm in? This is either bent over or on your arm.

Because is it like the one that's coming in like this, get outta here. The Arnold curl, yeah. You know how much I love it when Justin doesn't know about a building exercise? I would even say preacher curl over that. This is a silly one. By the way, here's what the study shows.

90% activation versus a preacher curl, which is 86%. 4%, probably nothing, especially when you consider it. Well, then when you add in what you guys said earlier about load and stuff like that too, so you're talking about a major difference there. Totally. All right, for triceps dips. Dips outperform skull crushers and pushdowns by five to 10%. So you're talking about a major, major difference. Totally. All right. For triceps dips, dips,

outperform skull crushers and pushdowns by five to 10%. I'm not going to argue with that. I'm definitely not. I love dips and they're functional push, push downs though. And overextensions wouldn't even come second and third for me. Yeah. Close grip pushups, close groups. Yeah. Close grip bench press. That would, that would be my, my one and two dips in close grip bench press for building the triceps I think or the king of the king of the movements or king and queen of movements for the tricep for sure and then for abs we have hanging leg raises not gonna argue this if you can perform this is

the that's yeah under like perfect form yeah here's the caveat right if you can perform hey hanging leg raises properly, meaning you're hanging either by your hands or by your elbows, and when you bring your legs up, what's bringing your legs up is pelvic tilt. It's not flexing at the hips. It's actually your pelvis rotating and bringing it up. Then yeah, this is like, it's hard to beat

hanging leg raise. That being said, and this is, listen, how, this is like, it's hard to beat a hanging leg raise. That being said, and this is, listen, I still like declines. 100% true, I'm gonna say this right now, 100% true. I almost never, never, never, never see anybody, even guys and girls that are fit and jacked, almost never seen people perform a hanging leg raise. Very rare.

Well you can do, like Justin said, the decline reverse crunches. Crunch, love that. That's one of my favorites. And boy, make that really difficult. And before you even get to this, this is such a progression to that, that most people that are doing hanging leg raises have no business doing hanging leg raises yet. They don't need to.

There's a better movement for you to learn and get good and strong at. And then let me, I mean, if you are somebody who can do decline reverse setups and you can do those with a steep, steep incline and it's easy and you can do high reps, okay, yeah, hanging leg raises, let's go. But I never had any clients that got to that level where we needed to do that. Like just doing that on the decline and slowing it down and emphasizing curling all the way up and then resisting on the way down. Yeah, good luck. Very, very difficult exercise, but if you could do it like the Nordic curl, a great exercise. Just most people can't do it properly. Anyway, People can't do it properly. Anyway, I gotta address some questions that we get on one of our partners, the Caldera Lab Face Serum.

The size of the bottle and the cost. I looked up how long that lasts for the average user. Dude, it lasts over a month at least. It's three to five months. I was gonna say it lasts a long time. Three to five, wow. Yeah, because you don't need much. And it lasts a very, plus I also, by the way,

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They're amazing. On the market. I mean, it's no wonder why they blew up. So as soon as people use it. Now that you said that about the usage, so the audience, every day before we podcast, it's a bit of a ritual for me that before we go on, I keep it over here right next to me,

and I just kind of apply it, and Jerry replaces that for me. You're probably right, it's probably. But you use it, you use way more of it than the average person, because you rub it all over your body. I put it on my sarai, yeah, but I still, that's why I probably said a month, a little over a month.

I put like literally two drops, one or two drops on my finger from my whole face. Yeah, so I use a lot of it. I use it on all my Sarai spots, I use it on the top of my head, I use it on my face, I use it all over, and that still lasts me over a month. And you can tell the difference when you're.

I imagine if someone's just using it like that, it probably lasts several, several months. Yeah, three to five months is what the average user says. Anyway, did you guys see what happened to Elmo's? Yes My god horrible like Elmo has everybody knows Sesame Street elbow somebody hacked his account on X and Elmo was saying the most racist, terrible stuff.

Antisemitic stuff. I didn't see that, all I saw was the Trump one. Bro. No, it kept going. Oh, I didn't know that. It was racist, it was antisemitic, and it was wow, bro. Like the stuff, now, you know what's funny,

do you guys ever watch that, have you guys ever watched that one clip somebody made with Elmo where he's partying with his buddies have you ever seen this one is this one of the cocaine yeah parties swinging from the you know he's having sex with it like a like a fluff you know the stuff dummy bunny and he's doing cocaine or whatever so people started posting that like real Elmo's wild you know what's funny about this? I bet you Elmo's page grew from that controversy. For sure it did. You know? Because I don't think I ever even paid, I didn't even know he had one till just now. Dude, it was. What was that? I didn't read any previous

posts was all like the kid related. Yeah, bro. It was like, Oh, yeah, like what you expect from Elmo. Yeah. And then they was like, oh, it was Elmo. Like, what do you expect from Elmo? It's Elmo. Yeah, and then they went off. They were saying things that. They have to shut it down, what happened? Yeah. I think they, did they, Doug, does it say that? I don't know, let me see here.

Oh, he's only got 600,000 followers. I would've thought. Well, it has since been secured. It's since, yeah, I, because I was on X, and I saw these posts by Elmo, I thought it was a fake account. I'm like, oh my God, bro. I just saw the backlash, and I was on X and I saw these posts by oh my god I just saw the backlash and I was like, oh my god

People I saw other people sharing it that's why I wasn't sure if it was true, you know, so I'm already there dude I'm at a point. I and I see it that I've already conditioned myself That I when I first see something that's crazy over the top like that. I don't believe yeah I know like now you guys have said that you've seen it you say okay now. Oh that thing I did that confirms it Yeah, right whereas I'm I'm in disbelief first I was hesitant to bring it up because of that as well because it's like, you know They're they're just throwing everything out there to get some kind of reaction and so many people do that where they they they photo I mean how many times have you seen someone Photoshop Trump's tweet and then they put something else

on there, it's like he never said that. Dude, it's getting so much of that. It's getting so wild on the internet, social media, you know what's a big problem right now in high schools? High school boys or whoever is taking yearbook pictures or pictures of kids they go to school with and they're turning it into pornography.

And so it's getting shared. Like their face they're putting on? With their face. Oh wow. So they have, and what's happening is the people are using Google and I forget who else has technology to do this. So it's like a big problem for these tech companies because and but listen Yes, I know it's fake or whatever but imagine being a 15 year old girl and suddenly at high school

Everybody's circulating a fake video of you. Yeah, but it's a doesn't even matter. It's fake It's no fact that someone's doing how violating Wow and terrible would that be you know? It's interesting to see how how you know tech and everything's gonna handle this I did did you guys see what YouTube is doing? I think and I think it's a great move. I actually thought this is something thinking about like man What are we gonna do with the whole you know dead internet theory like you know? Are we like just a couple years away from everything being just AI and did you see what YouTube did so so? just AI and did you see what YouTube did? So you, if all the money and stuff that you can make

from views and watch time on YouTube, if it's an AI generated account, it ain't happening. Good. So they're- Now that makes sense. They wanna protect their money. They wanna protect real users. Yeah, like people who make content.

Yeah. That's YouTube. If you don't have people making content, YouTube doesn't exist. It also keeps from like a monopoly, right? Because the first person that kind of figures out the hack and the algorithm of what you need to generate AI-wise. A volume that's going to just flood in. 15 videos a day.

Yeah, and 4,000 different accounts that are all AI and fake, and it's one person who's reaping all the benefits of that. You crush 4,000 other creators that would compete with that. Did you see John Delaney, his show's crazy, a girl called in, she's an adult. He gets wild called. She's an adult. This woman now is, I think she was in her 20s, and she had a stepfather, this is terrible,

that raised her, she had a good relationship with, and he let her borrow his phone to do something, and she saw that he had AI images of her that were nude. What? And it's like, she was obviously like, this is disgusting, I can't believe it, what do I do with this? Now it's not real, like he didn't go follow her

and take these photos. He just created it. But he just created it. And the crazy part about this is there's no laws, Now I'm sure they're gonna have laws against this. I'm sure if you do this and it's not authorized that you can get in big trouble, because they have to pass laws against this. Yeah, you have to. Your likeness, wasn't there some, I think it was in like Europe or something, they started to kind of have you register your likeness so it was protected and you could like, you know create some kind of legality around that you have to yeah

They have to that's kind of the only move we got left exactly for what I'm saying Like if it's does it is it are you protected is somebody protected? Right now from something like that is underage images If they're you know AI is that is that even covered under current law? I'm not sure I don't know, but this is like a thing. Yeah. That's happening right now. I thought you were about to share,

I just saw, you know, one of his recent ones too, is he had a live caller, he had some wildcaller. Because I know John so well, half of what I love is just to see his reaction. Like what the fuck is he gonna say? So if I had you ahead of this one, John. He does it so massively. He does, he does.

Well, he's probably hurt it all. Yeah, he has. I'm surprised how he doesn't get more, I like my mouth was like, oh, this guy calls in and he's trying to ask his advice on how to like, work through this situation. And he's telling the story that him, his wife and his mother-in-law were all drinking together,

and his wife went upstairs to go sleep with the kids, and he fell asleep downstairs with his stepmother, woke up, and then slept with his stepmother. His stepmother. Actually with his mother-in-law? Yeah, with his mother-in-law. Actually had sex with her? Yeah, yeah, and actually pursued her, right?

So she, I guess she. And he's asking for advice. Yeah John's was like yeah you're done you messed up yeah what's crazy to me is he called for advice yeah he's like yeah he's like you don't come back from that like that like the you dishonored you dishonored my way yeah yeah do you dishonored your wife to such a horrible degree you can never recover from that like the bright thing to do is actually to walk away Walk away from apologize of course, but yeah, you need to walk away. You know, it's crazy about all this is Reading the the you know, we're reading the Old Testament

I was so blown away by there's books in the Old Testament that are just laws and they spell out like like sex laws so, like so specifically that obviously people were doing this stuff. It's like you do not sleep with your sister, do not sleep with your mother, do not sleep with your husband's wife, do not sleep with your aunt,

do not have sex with an animal. But I'm like wow, they had to spell this out back then? What is going on here? It's just human nature, we can just go crazy can just go crazy all those signs you see at the airport for what not to bring And you're like somebody brought a chainsaw Those are funny so it was like random things and there's like of all the things they picked it not to bring like why is that Once they felt they needed a sign yes You know I tell you how bad how tell you how mad my older kids got at me?

You guys know I do this with you guys all the time. We're in the airport and then I'll make a joke while you're going through security. Hey, did you tell them about the fireworks in your bag or something like that? I did that to my kids, dude, and they were so angry. We're gonna get so troubled. What's wrong with you?

I'm like, you don't have fireworks in your bag. No, I didn't. No, I didn't. We always do that. I always do. You're gonna have fun. Yeah, yeah. I do it to Katrina all the time. Adam, I think you're probably the one,

you've gotten the most pat down. You get targeted a lot. 100%. Every time. 100%. Every time, I know when you're getting patted down, we always go, check his groin, that's where he hides it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do that to all the time, too. I know when you're getting patted down we always check his groin. That's where he hides

The best is like I mean I appreciate the guys that have like that sense of humor sometimes you get people that are just You know all upset about it and stuff. So we got to make light of it. It's uncomfortable and handle you anyway Yeah, it's uncomfortable. Nobody likes it. So might as well make a joke about it. Well, speaking of mess up things, like I was looking like it's kissed BWA, I think is this like actual news like I followed. There was this case of like these, this couple down in LA who couldn't, apparently were like trying to go through fertility clinic to get, trying to go through a fertility clinic to get, to be able to have a surrogate option. And they found out that they had done this with like 20 different people. And so they actually had, to full term,

20 kids were- With the same surrogate? With the same surrogate. So this woman's just pregnant 20 times? She's just, no, no, no, all different surrogates. So they- So this woman's just pregnant 20 times? She's just, no, no, no. All different surrogates. Okay. Her eggs.

So she, like her eggs, she- Willingly or they did it without her? They stole her eggs to give other people- No, so the thought is they did that on purpose. They have this like big mansion in Florida, like there's this whole like weird scandal to it. Like there's a lot of theories coming out about it as like, you know, if there's this whole like weird scandal to it. Like there's a lot of theories coming out about it as like

you know if there's some trafficking angle with this in terms of like, you know, so They're only able to adopt like, you know a handful the rest of them go to foster homes And so there but these this couple actually owns the the fertility clinic that did this disgusting So anyway, so I was just like appalled at like that this was, and apparently this is going on more frequently than people know about. OK, so help me understand. I'm a little confused.

So a couple who owns a fertility clinic used, so the wife basically They're using other people's eggs. No, her eggs. She produced a ton of eggs. You know when they do that? You produce 20 people's eggs. No, her eggs. She produced a ton of eggs. You know when they do that? You produce 20, 30 eggs. So they've probably froze 50 of her eggs. And then they gave them out.

And it was all at the same time to 20 different couples. And genetically, they're still finding babies. And the baby goes back to them to supposedly go out to adopt? Yes, to come back to them to adopt it. But they're not at home. But yeah, they can only adopt a handful. Oh, wow. Two kids or so.

I don't know how many. This is when I start to think about the difference. Is that just a possible strategy though of like, hey, we're gonna put out 20 and hopefully we get five. Because they don't always take. No, they all came out. That's what he's saying. Yeah, all 20.

All of them took. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. I was thinking about that too, but I'm like, yeah, like it's, I think, yeah, obviously they store more for that reason, but they would probably only use like two couples at max, I would imagine. Look it up, Doug.

I want to hear what this case is all about, and you could probably just type in California surrogate case or something like that. Or California surrogate. Because I know that, okay, so when Katrina and I went through all this, right, that's what they're hoping that she gets like, you know, 10, 15 eggs, right? And a lot of times when you have to go through

like something like this, you know, the woman's only having a handful eggs or so, so you're not getting a lot. And so you're really hoping and praying you get 10, 15, 20 eggs. And then you do you freeze all and then you try and inseminate all of them, you know, in hoping that four take and then the four that take to keep. And then, you know, you have one or two. They think it's trafficking like they were selling. Yes. Oh, they got to. These people gotta get killed

Yeah, I'm not a I am NOT a Wow 17 of them. It's horrific, dude. What is this? There's real evil terrible evil in the world and I'm not a I'm not pro death sentence, but so I What I'm having a hard time is like, how do you? How do you connect then right away to trafficking? Because, and like- Where do the kids go? And that's the incentive and they get paid like,

and you could see how their lavish lifestyle like doesn't add up. So they have a huge, huge house and it's like, okay, wait a minute, maybe they want a lot of kids and they have a big house for a lot of kids, but then it just doesn't, it doesn't add up. I mean, could it also be a way of avoiding taxes and just kind of backdoor getting people kids too though?

Okay, so you run your own- So you're gonna sell the kids on the black market? Yeah, basically. You're gonna sell the kids. Basically sell these. That's called trafficking. So that's most likely what's happening right now. These people are trying to sell the kids on the black markets

and then have to pay taxes. Think about it, you have your own planet. Yeah, but who's buying these kids in the black market? People that are willing to save money that way. It's like, imagine you're in, okay, think of this. I'm trying to think of how you think. You want a kid, Adam, you want a baby, you're going to go to the black market to buy it? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it doesn't look like that. You come to my clinic, okay, to come get a baby and you're telling me, I tell you, hey, it's going to be $30,000. Oh man, it's so expensive. I tell you what,

we have one for 15, for 15 grand, but we're gonna have to do it this way. I'm gonna do it, we're not gonna claim it. Well there's a reason why there's laws around this. Well no, I mean obviously, and by the way, me explaining how I think this went down doesn't mean me justifying it by any means. I'm just trying to rationalize like,

where is your brain going to do that? It makes sense if you own the clinic, you gotta pay taxes and all this income that you're doing. You do 20 kids for 15 grand black market, it's a lot of money, and then that also explains the lavish lifestyle because you're only paying taxes, say on 200 grand a year,

but you're really making more like 400 a year. I guess their best case is tax evasion then, the best case scenario. Yeah. But you're selling to the black market, it's like who's coming to you? Yeah. No, again, I bet you're not selling to the black market. It's like who's coming to you? Yeah. No, it's again. You're not probably I bet you're not selling the

But I bet it happens just like that. You're in it. You're in it. You're in an office and you turn a blind eye Yeah, exactly. And you're like listen, I bet you if we look at looking at the case more I mean I could be totally wrong. They could be some crazy. I feel like though this is right now That's a hot topic So everything is like go that direction for the news like that obviously gets everyone's boil going all the stuff that You know Epstein and what's going on? I Wonder if it's more like is that one of the people that are no those that's the couple. That's the couple. Yeah So they actually used her eggs in his sperm

I guess and they had these surrogates raise these kids and there's like 21 of them I think the oldest is 12. Okay raise these kids and there's like 21 of them. I think the oldest is 12. But apparently there was a three month old that had been abused at the house and that's how they found out about this. It was shaken I think. Wow, well there you go.

That's terrible. Interesting. You know there's a controversy around surrogacy by the way that people say that having a baby grow in a woman and then when she gives birth goes to someone else that there's some trauma there having a baby grow in a woman, and then when she gives birth, goes to someone else, that there's some trauma there that people don't want to address. Just the separation from the mom

that carried the baby. That's controversial to say, because people don't want to say that, but that's even a possibility. But, man, that's really crazy. All right, I'm gonna go fitness. I'm gonna bring it back to fitness here for a second. So just by the way, what I'm about to say

points less to the value of what I'm about to say, more to just how sedentary humans are. They did a study that showed that walking 4,000 steps a day, 4,000 steps by the way, is nothing. walking 4,000 steps a day, 4,000 steps by the way, is nothing. It led to larger brain volume, about 2%, and improved memory from 4,000 steps. By the way, this isn't like, oh, walking is miraculous.

What this really means is people are so inactive that their brains are atrophied. Their brains are atrophied. 100%. From not moving. And it only takes 4,000 to counter the average person's atrophy. That's right.

Yeah. I mean, this to me is the similar story when you've talked about how little it takes just to keep from losing muscle. Yeah. Once every two weeks. Like that's how inactive we are as people. Like to just keep your muscle from losing muscle. Yeah. Once every two weeks, like that's how inactive we are as people, like to just keep your muscle from falling off.

Like you just need to do something once every two weeks. This is similar to that. It's like we are so inactive in order to keep your brains from atrophying, all you have to do is minimum walk 4,000 steps. And you're right, I think it's less to say about how miraculous 4,000 steps is just to say, wow, how unhealthy, inactive we really have become.

Along those lines. And it's not just your muscles that are suffering, your brain is also suffering. Oh yeah, your brain controls all of it, moves it all. It's all connected. And it prunes off what you're not using, and if you're not using your brain, because every time you move, you're using your brain,

if you don't move, your brain will atrophy. Along those lines, did you see the new CDC data on teenagers and pre-diabetes? Jackie sent this to us. This is CDC data. One out of three teens, 33% of teenagers today have pre-diabetes. Whoa, that's appalling.

33, do you guys, people understand this? It's really high. Teenagers never had any of this. No. Zero, zero was what it was. Yeah. Okay, now it's 33% have pre-diabetes. Yeah, we're not doing anything.

How do they measure pre-diabetes? Blood sugar. Just so it's, basically what this is saying is that they checked a thousand of preteens their blood sugar and they all read over this number. Yep so it's not high enough for type 2 diabetes but if you're pre-diabetic at 15 years old you're gonna get type 2 diabetes when you get older. 33% 1 out of 3. That is absolutely insane.

This is a significant threat. Major need there. To the world. It's so crazy to me, because we recently had a caller, and she was asking about, you know, trying to keep her kid from having, she wants to do similar to what Katrina and I do

with like the no sugar really early. And the crazy thing to me is we know stuff like this, where we're going, it's like that there's still pushback from family and people that, hey, we probably shouldn't do that. You know what's crazy about this though? And again, I'm gonna just go in a little bit of a different direction.

We grew up in the 80s and 90s, okay? And I'm gonna be honest with you, we all ate a lot of sugar. All of us ate a lot of sugar all the time. Great. But we also played like crazy outside. That's it. We were always exercising, climbing,

we were moving our bodies. But that's how we, so this is how we got in trouble though, Sal, because it's not to say that what we did, what we did in the 80s and 90s was good, we were doing something bad. Also, we were just lucky that we still lived in a very physically active society. And so we countered a lot of that bad shit by moving enough.

That's one of the beauties of exercise and movement. You can get away with a subpar or even poor diet with, with a lot of exercise to at least counter all the extra calories. Cause I would bet that if you compared the 90s to today, a kid's diet. Oh, I don't think it's worse. No, it's the same. No, it's changed dramatically. Totally.

I totally agree with that. I totally agree with that. But again, that doesn't mean we were doing it right. I think we were doing it wrong too. I think we just, we, we are now seeing the consequences of eating like that and those habits and behaviors and kids don't move. It was the perfect, it was the, it's the perfect worst recipe happened is you had of eating like that and those habits and behaviors. And kids don't move. And kids don't move. It was the perfect, it's the perfect worst recipe happened is you had a bunch of 80s

and 90s babies have babies after they, you know, ho-hos and twinkies and eating like that was no big deal. We all did it. So then they justify it to their kids. Oh, no big deal. Let's feed my kid ice cream and give them the snacks and do all the things I did as a kid. So now they're just sitting there on an iPad on yeah, and then you throw an iPad their way

Yeah, and just coma toast them for the entire day like side is boring crazy. Yeah recipe for that I mean, it's again. I mean people have heard to say this but when I when we were kids Kids were never inside never no, I mean never by the way, we didn't have cell phones tracking. It's not good. We just weren't inside. Nothing good about staying inside. Going inside was a punishment. Did you see that other art cool that Jackie sent?

She sent it last week, actually. And I never brought it up on the show. I thought it was interesting. There's a movement called Feral Summer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Feral Summertime or something like that, I think it's called. Basically, feral kids, right?

Yeah, put them outside. Yeah, really, it's like feral summertime or something that I think is called it basically feral kids, right? Yeah, really encourage like a movement that's happening right now that you know parents trying to encourage other parents to let your kids go Let your kids know I was talking it's funny. I was talking to my wife I've been talking my wife about this recently and we're really good. She's really good with limiting screen time But when I have the kids all day, which I do not super often, but maybe once or twice a week, I'll have them for a large chunk of the day. Jessica will get out of the house and I'll be with the kids all day long.

There is a pronounced difference in their behavior when I run their little butts off and we go to the park two or three times a day versus when we're inside. Radical difference in their behavior. So here you are as a parent, and your kids are not going outside that much because you're not either taking them outside

or making them go outside or whatever, then they're acting up, and then in order to deal with the fact that they're acting up, you use TV or a screen. When in reality, again, if this was a dog, if you had a dog that was chewing your furniture and pooping all over the place, and you went to the vet,

and the vet, first question the vet would ask is how often do you take your dog for a walk? Oh, we really don't go for that many walks. Okay, that's your problem. Get your dog outside. You don't need to sedate your dog or give him some sort of medication or do something else. Go get him outside.

I literally, this is what it literally looks like. When I have my kids, 9 a.m. is my goal, and we go all the way, we go for a walk all the way to this big park that's by where we live, and we're there from 9.30 till typically 12.30, and it's like we're running, they're going, and we're playing. Then we come home, daughter goes down for a nap,

my son and I hang out a little bit, she wakes up and we go back to the park. If I have them all day, it's typically what it looks like. And they're way better behavior. You know, originally last year when I was house shopping, on my list of things that Katrina and I had over the years put together, like, okay, what does our ideal place look like? A pool is not on my list. That just happened to happen with this place because I fell in love with everything else And I can't tell you how grateful I am looking back now

I I would have actually put it as one of my top things now because of that reason I'm outside just having a young just having young kids and They just naturally gravitate one is so easy to convince him to go play and swim in the pool And then I see the benefits of that. I mean aside from the fact that we're not even thinking about TV and iPad stuff like but being out in the sun and doing something physical like oh connect. I mean all the things I just if I would if I knew this going into it when I went shopping over a year ago, that actually would have been one of my number one priorities now that I know that. But it wasn't, I lucked out that that happened

and now that I see how we use it and I see the benefits of that to the point you were making because it's just so easy to go up. When I'm stuck inside, I even make it, because sometimes if it's raining, right, you can't go outside too much. You know what I do, we do this thing where I'll play EDM music and I make my kids run and I turn it into games.

I'll pretend like I'm a police officer, the speed limit's only this much, and then they run, oh you're breaking the speed limit, and they just, bah, bah, bah, bah, and I'll do this for an hour to exhaust them physically. Because if I don't, it's not good for them. They don't feel good, and they act it out, you can tell. They're snappier with each other, meaner, more disobedient, whatever you wanna say.

Well dude, even when it's raining, I mean we used to call each other out and be like, dude, it's mud football time. And we'd go out and deal with the elements. I just think we're such pussies now. Like, get out there and deal with it. And your body's gonna benefit as a result of it. Yeah, oh, you might get a little cold, but guess what, you'll get stronger. Get out there and deal with it and your body's gonna benefit as a result of it. Yeah

You might get a little cold, but you'll get stronger I really think I think it's I think it's less I blame less of the kids Being pussies and more of us as parents taking the easier path. Yeah, you want to control us It's the parents that are pussy. Yeah we want the easier path right like It's the parents that are pussies. Yeah. Well, yeah, they want the easier path, right? Like, and I've seen this happen a minute many times. And listen, I'm no stranger to also know what it's like to come home from a long, stressful,

busy day and all I want to do is walk in the door, put my feet up on the couch, have my wife come over and rub my head and tell me it's going to be OK. Like 100% had those days. But yet I've got a five, six-year-old running around, daddy, daddy, daddy, let's do this. And boys, would it be tempting to just, hey, put your favorite show on the iPad, because he certainly would love to do that. And it takes extra effort for me to get up off there and go,

let's go outside and go play. But I see and know the difference and the benefits of that. And yes, and at that moment, that's where, to me, that's real parenting is sacrificing in that moment to make that decision. When it's hard, when it's easy, it's easy. You're not special. It's not, you're not special when I take my kid to play in the pool because it's easy. No, when it's hard is when- You don't want to go out there.

I don't want to go out there and I don't want to do that because I'm tired. And so I think- Sacrifice. I think as parents, we have chosen that path. And I think I shared this with you guys. So many, like, we had, I told you one of the last trips we had, we had all these kids at our house up in Tahoe, and you know, a lot of the kids had iPad times. And although it wasn't a lot, they still let them do it,

and we've taken it away from Max completely. And you know, Max sees all them doing it, wants to do it. And all it took was Katrina and I being like, hey, do you to go roast marshmallows outside? Hey do you want to go you know throw like as soon as we offer to do something outside with him he preferred that but if you but if you continually use the iPad as that tool to entertain them they will eventually crave that more than they will that outside and then you're up a real up battle. That's the real challenge is to stay ahead of it, right? And to understand like, okay, I have to have structure for them and options for them. Like maybe sometimes they're not just going to like all of a sudden think of that themselves. Like if, you know, and again,

when they get older, they'll have a better time if you've established that but you have to establish that first Just like anything else. I remember watching you do this Because you remember I mean we've had we've had the truckie house now for seven years I think or something like that and the boys were much younger though. Your boys were my son's age Yeah, they were back then and I remember when we would get up in the morning when all of our families were there You were like I were going out we're doing like you had to plan the day of physical activities outside and get the boys out right away you were proactive you did and being I remember me I'm more chill I want to be lazy kind of sleeping that's my vacation yeah and you were like I gotta I have to go do

this I have to go do that and I'm sure inside of you if there was no kids there you would love to sit down relax right and do nothing I would have but I know I you know I got to watch that firsthand from you for years of like no this is what I have to do otherwise my boys will want to play video games all day and do nothing that's the other side of it like yeah you could also be at home and say no TV no iPad whatever but you're at home and you're doing and now you have to choose something to do at home. Meanwhile, the temptation of this perfectly engineered device, which is engineered to get their attention,

the engineer who worked on it, much smarter than you are, you're just, they're next to this temptation. So get out of the house. They're not gonna ask for the TV, why? It's not here, we're at the park. We have the park. Let's go feed the ducks, let's go run, let's go do this other thing.

So it's like get out of the temptation that these kids are, otherwise it's this battle and then you're fighting with them and then they're arguing. Well you know what's interesting too is that you trade the convenience temporarily but you actually make it harder for yourself. Totally. So in a temporary moment.

It's actually harder. It is harder, in a temporary moment it seems like the easier path to just give them that. But then the tantrums, the not going to sleep, the getting up in the middle, all that comes from that. And so it's like you actually think you saved time or you made it easier, but you actually made it harder for yourself because you didn't choose the first hard. You choose, okay, I'll delay.

And then you got the hard later. 100%. All right, I got a study on green juices. I don't even know that these studies existed. I'm gonna read this to you. I actually looked this up. So they did a study on how green juices affect things like inflammation.

And believe it or not, I'll pull up the study here. Now this was done on obese women. And so what they did is they gave obese women a juice powder that had greens in them. So very similar to Organifi's green juice. There was a 30% reduction in what's known as protein and lipid oxidation. All right, what is that?

Well proteins and lipids become oxidized and become inflammatory with oxidants. So antioxidants help prevent this. So these are, by the way, these are obese individuals, so it's not necessarily the best demographic. But by simply drinking a green juice, it reduced both of those by 30%, which translates typically to things like,

can translate to things like lower heart attack risk, lower pain, better cognitive function, because you don't have this like oxidation going on. Now I'm imagining that's, because I know like Green Juice has ashwagandha, has these other things in it, it's primarily from all the antioxidants from the concentrated fruit.

That's right, concentrated greens. Okay concentrated greens, okay. That's right. Because I know that like your fruit, your greens, they have a lot of antioxidants. The fact that it's concentrated in a juice, I'm sure you're getting an abundant of that. Yeah, because 30 something percent is a massive.

From a green juice? That's like an easy supplement. And again, both of them are associated with heart disease, obesity related complications, insulin resistance. Now, the authors of the study speculated that this effect is obviously stronger in people that don't have a lot of vegetables and fruit in their diet. That's how I use the green juice.

That's how I use the green juice. When my vegetable intake is low, I'll have a green juice. And it looks like it's the right thing to do. If you have any questions or curiosities or you're considering hormone replacement therapy or peptide therapy, go to mphormones.com. The doctor's there, will help you, and right now, this is the biggest sale I've ever seen,

30% off everything across the board. 30% off all peptides, 30% off your hormone replacement therapy, 30% off everything right now. Go to mphormones.com. Back to the show. Our first caller is Lauren from Oklahoma. Hi Lauren. How you doing Lauren?

How are you? How are you guys? Good. We're good, how can I help you? Just gonna get to my question, okay? I wrote to you guys and I listened to you, I've been listening to you for about a year. I listen to everything you say and do. listening to you for about a year. I

Listen to everything you say and do I love you all three Justin you remind me so much of my husband. It's hilarious But anyway, this is what I wrote. I said I am a 43 year old woman who is five seven and I currently weigh 148 pounds. I have always worked out. I eat healthy I get in my daily steps, etc, etc My issue slash question is that I have taken Fentermine, 37.5 milligrams daily for almost four years straight and it has ruined my metabolism. While on the medication, I was able to maintain a weight around 120 to 125 pounds and I felt really good in my clothes and my body. I have been off the medication now for about 14 months and in body. I have been I watched my calorie intake, I tracked my macros, all while raising three kids and working full time. I desperately want to lose 15 to 20 pounds and it is not budging.

I want to run back and get another prescription for Finermine but I know that's not the answer so I'm wondering if you guys can help me and since then, since I wrote this question, I did go get my hormones checked by a hormone doctor. All my hormones were in the normal range, but the testosterone was on the low side. So I did start testosterone cream four weeks ago. And I'll be real honest, I complained about my weight and he did give me some glutide. So I started on that the low dose 0.25 milligrams and I have not lost a pound. Okay. So nothing has come off. Yeah we'll give it some time.

Okay so you stop ventromine which is boost norepinephrine. So it's kind of like a... Is that like Fenton? Yep that's what it is. It's a central nervous system stimulant and it will make you eat less. Some agglutide will do the same as you continue to increase the dose. You'll see that your appetite will drop and you'll eat less. So that's essentially what happened, right? You were on it, you ate less,

you went off of it, you ate more. Now your body weight for your height's not bad. I don't know what your body fat percentage is. I had it checked in April and it was at 22%. You're fine. Oh, yeah. You were eating too little before then, Lauren. Yeah, I hate to break that to you,

but on Fenterman you were underweight. I want to know. I like being thinner. I'm very soft and I can't seem to tone up. 22% body fat is not soft, but I think what you're talking about, and I can't seem to tone up. I know some people were toned, but I can't seem to. 22% body fat is not soft. But I think what you're talking about, and I get it, is you like to be smaller. Yes.

But that, you were under-eating before. And now you're probably eating more appropriate. 22% is amazing, that's great. Especially if you're strength training and you're getting stronger. That's excellent. Some agglutide is gonna help a little bit with insulin sensitivity.

You might drop your calories a bit, but what are your calories at by the way? What are you averaging right now? Well, I know what you're gonna say. So before I got on the, I mean, anywhere between 1200 and 1700 a day. I know it's too low. Yeah.

I just don't have the appetite to eat. So you're you're you're So the other thing too that I'm concerned about is in you in your in here you wrote to that you try to hit your 130 grams of protein a day. And then I know that you're taking semi glutide. So I imagine it becomes even more difficult to hit that. And then you also say that you know, you feel soft and one of the one of the recipes for fixing soft is muscle muscle. And if if we are not hitting enough protein consistently, even if you are strain training, you're just not going to build protein, you're not gonna get that firm look that you want. And so, a reverse diet and building muscle would be the focus for you and I.

I mean, that's what we would be doing. And let's go a little deeper, Lauren. How long have you, let's say, been kind of focused on your body, where you're like, oh, I need to lose weight, or I need to change this, or how long has that been? I'm 43 and I mean probably since 14 15 can I give you?

90s so, you know losses were that the end thing yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So did I I get it. Can I give you some like honest objective? feedback Yes, of course your assessment of how you look is distorted. It's not accurate. So you can't trust the mirror, or to put it differently, you can't trust yourself. 22% is great body fat percentage. If you're getting stronger.

Especially a mom of three at 40, I mean that's. I bet if I asked. You're winning, you're winning. I bet if I asked your husband, I bet if I asked your kids, I bet if I asked your friends, hey does Lauren look fit? They'd be like oh my gosh, she looks amazing.

So what you're seeing is not true. And so what we need to work on, if you really wanna solve this, now if you wanna live the rest of your life being body focused with the anxiety that goes along with it And all of the other things you're not aware of see where you're not aware of when you've lived this way for so long Is it's negatively affecting all your relationships? It has it's it's being placed above things that are more important

So it can probably cause things like anxiety and stress around eating your around vacation, around examining yourself in the mirror, trying clothes on, oh my God, I don't look good, self-consciousness, all that stuff. If you wanna break free from that, what we're gonna have to do is we're gonna have to get you to stop looking in the mirror and breaking yourself down. And what we wanna do is focus on something,

a different metric that is gonna move you in the right direction. Strength is probably the best one. I'd like to put you on a program like MAPS Power Lift, and I would love for you for the next three months to be hyper-focused on getting stronger at the squat, deadlift, and the bench press. And I'd want you to also simultaneously try to eat more,

because the truth is you've been eating too little for too long I Would like to see if you're open to it. I'd like to see you work with Corinne our trainer I think she would be incredible for you where you're currently at right now and helping you through this process I think the most challenging part of what Sal is saying to you is not the adherence of the stuff per se but more so The psychological game that it plays with your head you start doingence of the stuff per se but more so the psychological game that it plays with your head. You start doing some of the right things.

Oh my God, I feel like I'm getting fat or this can't be right or that's right. And then you bail from the plan. And so having a coach checking in with you frequently just letting you know like, hey Lauren, you're kicking ass, you're doing good. We're heading the right track. Trust the process. Trust the process. I think would be incredibly valuable if you're kicking ass, you're doing good, we're heading the right track, trust the process, trust the process, I think would be incredibly valuable if you're open to that.

I'm gonna tell you right now, your height, your weight, 22% body fat, 43 years old. You're winning, you're winning. You look better than 9.9% of women in your age group. But that doesn't matter what I say, what matters is what you feel about that. So we gotta move away from that. And I'm gonna tell you, the other end of this

is gonna be amazing. And you'll have this relationship with fitness and diet that feels free and non-stressful. And then you'll be able to kind of see a little bit more accurately with how you're actually doing. That is, what Adam's saying is correct, it's gonna take a little bit of coaching through this process.

But you're doing good, but you could do so much better by increasing calories and getting strong. And that's actually gonna give you- That's the body you want. It's gonna give you all those incredible benefits. I've just always been so afraid to increase the calories. Of course, of course, of course. It's common, super common.

Super common. Yeah, super common. That's why you need somebody in your corner for sure. I think a coach would be really good super super common one Yeah, and I want to make it clear that even though like Sal's telling you you you've you know You have kind of that what we call perception drift of yourself, right? You the way you look at yourself. It doesn't mean that we can't sculpt and build the body You're you're thinking that you but it's it doesn't start there. It starts first with

Loving yourself where you're currently at, understanding what the process looks like, being comfortable with the process of reverse diet. You have to get there first so we can go do the things we need to do to then sculpt the body that you have in your mind. But it's you getting in your own way on the way to that because you're not allowing yourself to do it. And that's where the- If you're at 22% body fat, eating 12 to 1700 calories, oh my God, we're going to see some

tremendous body sculpting changes if we can just get you to the point where you're able to reverse diet properly with some good strength training. You're going to feel, libido is going to go through the roof, you're going to sleep really good, you're going to feel really stable and strong in your body, and then a light switch, it's gonna feel like a light switch at some point. You're like, oh my God, this is amazing. And I feel so free, this is great on top of it.

So if you're open to that, we'll have somebody call you. At the very least, they'll give you a consultation. But, okay. All right, let's do that. I'm so glad you called in. Super common, Lauren. Like you are probably 50% of the clients I work with started in that place.

And just if you do end up working with Corinne, listen to her, she's amazing. She is amazing, she is great at what she does, and she will absolutely help you through this if you let her, but you gotta let her. Okay, now I appreciate you guys so much. Everything you say and do, I will listen. I just need that someone to keep writing me.

So thank you. This is good, I'm excited. Thank you so much, Lauren. Maybe we'll have you on in a few months. Yeah, yeah, I would love to circle back. All right, let's do that. We'll have you on in a few months, okay? Yeah, check back in.

All right, thanks, Lauren. Have a good day. You too. That's a real thing. I mean, I know it personally, but just on the outside, I could always look at someone else and see it very clearly. And 22% is not soft.

No. 22% is a healthy, lean. It's like ideal. Fit. That's where you want it. For a woman, between 19 to 22 is like fit and lean. Leaner than that, sometimes you start to get hormone issues.

Higher than that can look curvier, below 25%. 22% is amazing, especially for someone who's 43 years old. Her calories are so low too, which is crazy. Well that's why she's not building muscle. No. That's what's happening. She has found herself in a place, it's actually keeping her relatively healthy,

lean, all the things, but she wants more for her physique, meaning she wants to be tighter, firmer, sculpted, but you can't do that without the nutrients. You can't get there if you don't hit what your body needs calorie-wise and protein-wise consistently, and the reverse diet is what she needs to do in able to do that. She'll get up to a nice 22, 2300 calories feel like oh my god. Yeah, I feel so good

Yeah, no this I I hope she ends up working with Karen Karen help her a lot our next caller is James from Oklahoma What's up, James? How you doing James? What's happening? Hey guys, I Appreciate you guys taking the time to answer this question I'd actually sent it in a little bit ago and some things have changed a little bit. So I'll kind of modify on the fly, but I'll just kind of read the question out to you. Thank you.

Justin, this is kind of more specifically to you because of what the work that you do with high school athletes. Okay. So I've been listening to Mind Pump for several years. I know that Justin is the guy that does most of the training for high school athletes. Through the years I've done a lot of work with high school athletes and older adults by using mind pump programs and podcasts.

I've been able to make very good progress with a lot of these people. But I had someone reach out to me recently about their morbidly obese high school student and I'm at a little bit of a loss here. I've worked with hardcore athletes. I know that most of the time these coaches have programs in place that I don't want to mess with their programs. I want to my stuff to be through what Justin has said, form, technique, a little bit more specific stuff. We don't want to work them really hard, you know, so I do that a lot of that kind of stuff not to overdo their regular sessions and recovery But what this young man he's I had originally but he was five six and his dad has estimated around 350 He's actually around 300. I weighed him last week

He's five six weighs around 300 pounds and already I'm starting to see a little bit of a demon his arms and his legs And I'm just concerned that this young man's gonna have a pretty low quality of life, you know, if we can't do something and I can't get, you know, excited about what's going on in the process itself. I don't wanna overwork him, but I also know that he's 15 years old. He's gonna be a little bit more resilient

than some of my older obese people that I'm working with. But kind of how do you think that we need to kind of go along with this? I've got currently I've used anabolic for numerous people. I've got performance split power lift bands and OCR and I've kind of broke this up for different people. I've got some people that what we've done is we've, um, I've done in a ball it, but I've done it more of a, uh, isometric type, uh, asymmetrical. So we'll do left side, right side. We'll split everything up, you know, but I'm just curious as to what your thought would be on, how do I get through this? How do I, how do I help this young man? Okay. So, and you're working with other obese individuals as well. Um,

your concern is that he's younger, like 15. Is he also an athlete or is this just like, you're trying to help them out with this fitness? No, he is not an athlete at all. His parents knew that I worked with some other people. I go to church with his parents and they reached out and I just offered to help him free of charge to get him a program in place to kind of help him. Um, is he is not currently an athlete. He's a farm kid. He is a very, very strong kid, but it's just a situation to where I'm just trying to figure

out, uh, you know, I don't, I'm not worried about overloading him as far as his other activities go. That's, I guess my biggest concern at this point. Yeah. So you're trying to find, because it's really not much different than training an adult in that situation. It's just you're trying to figure out what to present him in an appropriate way. And so building him up and building up his foundational strength is definitely something that's, you know, I would focus a lot on that and technique and everything else you're doing in terms

of like introducing him towards strength training, but then educating him through the process of like really the nutrition side. It has to be a huge conversation that you start kind of planting a lot of seeds with that. So, I mean, I, again,, again, we want to build them up. And so he's building up and gaining muscle and being able to get stronger in the process. So that way, as we get this nice exchange later on, as he adjusts his calories and we can kind of build that metabolism up to a place where he can start to really change

that over and start burning body fat. But I mean, it's really like it's no different than what we would address with an adult. But it's just, I think for students, you don't want to overwhelm them. And I think you're kind of conscious of that already. So I think what you're already kind of applying and using it maps anabolic and introducing him to a lot of those like, you know, foundational lifts and really teaching that and setting him up for success later on, getting him excited about lifting weights. It's going to kind of take on a

life of its own. So I just try to like plant as many seeds as possible with these student athletes or or just students in general to bring that passion there first. So it's not like I'm not treating it like it's this crisis you know it's more like he's you're inviting him in and you're trying to really like you know build that passion from him and get him to ask more questions and so so I guess that's the approach I would take. I don't know if you guys have any. Yeah, the fact that you made the comment that you know he's already kind of strong,

I would really lean into that as the conversation. Like, let's get strong at this bit. Let's get strong at this thing. And hey, we gotta hit our protein and make sure you watch what happens when you consistently hit that protein while we also get strong. I think I would communicate a lot to that. And then the other thing I would really pay attention to if you can is do you have any

idea what his activity looks like outside of you? Like is his activity, how, I mean, what I did is I had his parents start up. They actually were on a fireworks dance. They'd been super busy for the last few weeks. I told him to listen what I would like to you to do is whenever you're done with the fireworks stand I don't want this weird offset time of watching steps show me a regular week of what activity looks like you know about how many steps we had a day are we at three thousand five thousand then from there we can start slowly incrementing that you know the first thing that asked me about is what everyone asks about.

Well, when should we start running? I was like, he doesn't want to run. Never, you know, especially not at 300 pounds. Yeah. Yeah. James. But we can, we can, there's ways that we can do cardio without any running, but we can just increase these step counts.

So I do have them currently. Um, he had an Apple watch, so he is starting to track his steps for a week or so. I had them just loosely. I was like, well, obviously loosely is okay, but as specific as you can get with what we're eating, you know, can we, I don't need you to necessarily weigh anything right now, but if you can tell me, well, I had a cup of mashed potatoes and two chicken breasts and this and this for dinner and give us a ballpark idea of what those calories look like. That's going to get us a good start to kind of what we're doing moving forward. Well here's what's most important James with a, because you have a very unique opportunity with a 15 year old and that opportunity is can

I help this kid develop a relationship with fitness and nutrition that he does for the rest of his life. That's more important than what you do in the workout. It's more important than the exercises. It's more important than the diet, the specifics. So what you're going to try to do is become a mentor to him. And more important than anything is can you make it enjoyable. Now you know what that typically looks like

for a 300 pound 15 year old? Does he enjoy hanging out with you? That's more important than the workout. Does he like coming to see James? And oh man, James, he's a mentor. Man, I like to ask him questions about talking to girls and my friends and school. And then you know what ends up happening without realizing it

He develops a relationship with fitness that is positive and you end up becoming this mentor for him I have several clients I worked with who were young kids like this were obese one of them became a personal trainer Eventually and but now he came to me Because his parents forced him to work out with me, and I remember one of our first workouts, he told me he was embarrassed to take his shirt off at the pool. Now this kid eventually became a personal trainer and eventually became a top trainer

at the company that I worked at. But he hated working out. Why did he hate working out? I would hate working out if I was 300 pounds and you're making me do stuff that I suck at. Nobody likes doing that. So what it looked like when you'd show up was we're hanging out, high five.

Okay, let's do this exercise. It's kind of moderate intensity. And then in between sets, we're having conversations. And then you know what happened? Second workout, we do that exercise again. We're having a conversation. I'd say, hey, by the way, John, last week you did five of these.

Guess how many you just did. I don't know, because he wasn't counting because we were hanging out. You did eight. I did eight? Yeah, you did three more. Do Guess how many you just did. I don't know, because he wasn't counting because we were hanging out. You did eight. I did eight? Yeah, you did three more. Do you know what that means, John? No, no, what does that mean?

You are not the same person today as you were last week. You are fundamentally a different person. And you watch their face light up. Like, oh my God, I'm not the same person. Yeah, you did five last time. You did eight. In fact, it was easier to do eight than you did five last week.

Isn't that crazy? Yeah, that's crazy. You know what the best part is? It's gonna keep, this is gonna keep happening. This is exciting. And so the most important thing you could do is mentor this kid to have a relationship with this where he enjoys it.

If you do that, the rest is easy. Now if the focus is on the what we're doing and you gotta do the reps and you gotta count your steps and watch what you eat, and it becomes this thing that he doesn't enjoy Then you're the odds that he's gonna stick to it or very low But the unique opportunity is if he figures this out now, it'll stick with the rest of his life Yeah, I think too and you mentioned you kind of talked to him about calories. I think the simplicity is Totally, you know

And so we talk about trying to focus more just on whole foods and like hitting your protein targets And so just just kind of like asking prodding questions in it protein related So he has an idea of like portion sizes and all that kind of stuff based on you know What he's consuming but did you were we able to accomplish our protein goal for today? And that's like the entire conversation. It might even look like this, James, just to scale it back, because I'm getting memories now. This was a long time ago.

I worked with this kid, but it looked like this. Hey, did you eat the four eggs before our workout? Yep. I would just tell him something specific like that. Hey, for breakfast I want you to eat four eggs. You have your ground meat today? You know, did you pack that? And eat that first, I don't care what else you eat. And that? And eat that first, I don't care what else you eat.

And I would say that, literally, I don't care what else you eat, just eat this, just eat this before you come and work out. And we'd just start there. And then you know what he did? I don't remember, it was like a few months later, he'd come to me and say, hey, I think I'm gonna cut out soda, great idea, let's do that.

And then he would do that. It's a compounding effect. Oh my God, it was amazing, this kid lost so much weight and then I stopped training with me and then I saw him years later and he was a personal trainer. It was amazing. But it's really about this relationship. So if he looks up to you like, you know, if you played sports as a kid, you remember those coaches that were like mentors to you.

If you can become that for this kid, like it's going to be great. That's number one. That's number one. Number one, be liked by him, right? Be liked, loved by him. Number two, if I can get the kid to increase protein and get excited about one or two lifts, you're winning. You're literally winning right there. And then he'll do it himself.

Exactly. If I can, if I can just excite him about his bench presser squad or whatever he's already probably good at and excite him about getting stronger there and connect the dots that hitting protein intake is going to serve that goal and then he just likes seeing me. I got it. And then he gets one comment from a kid that's like, hey, damn you're strong. You look different. If you can communicate with the parents too and really get them, give them ideas,

especially like food wise so you're not inundating him specifically about all these like food options, it's just like, here's what you do with parents of a teenager that you're working with. This is what you say to them, hey dad, I don't want you to say anything about this. Let me handle it. Don't do nothing. Now when you guys cook food for each other,

for yourselves, if you wanna make it healthier, I'll give you some ideas, but don't ask him about what he's eating, don't ask him about his walking and running, don't do anything because teenagers hate listening to their parents. And if the parents start to push on him, he's gonna wanna move in the other direction.

So you're the guy. So you tell the parents, says, Dad, let me handle this. Don't bring it up. Don't ask any questions. Just say nothing. If he says something to you, just be curious. Oh really, what's that like?

How's that feel? But do nothing else. Let me handle the rest. Here's what it is with a kid, there's as much coaching for the parents as there is for the kid when you're working through this, because they're obviously the ones running the household, and usually it looks like don't mess up what I'm doing,

is what you want to say. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does make sense. Dad was actually, he even told me, he said, listen, if I need to go along with you guys, work out with you guys to encourage whatever I need to do along with this, um, that had bariatric surgery, I think about five or six years ago. I believe mom had bariatric surgery a few years ago. So it's a,

it's a larger family. Um, it's gotta, you know, I've, I actually, uh, when you talked about the mentorship aspect of it, you know, I'm actually his youth minister, so I have been for several years. So that kind of helps a little bit. This is great, James. And James, okay, so you understand the power of grace. So he's gonna need a lot of that in this journey because he's going to want to, he's gonna run into run into these shame spirals every time he messes up. He's gonna mess up, everybody does.

So you're going to be the one to show him that grace. Oh, that's all right, that's normal. Everybody screws up, not a big deal. And then let's enjoy the workout type of deal. If dad comes along and you notice that dad is trying to coach or be a little overbearing, then it's not a good idea. And so if you know the dad really well

and you can say, ah, probably not a good idea, it might be better that he's not there. But if dad is like, gonna let you coach dad at the same time and just sit back and let you do your thing, then that's perfectly fine. It's good bonding for him for sure. And that was my biggest thing is,

what I've done with most people, I've had my wife, I've been on here once before about her, she's lost since Saturday. We started with the anabolic with her performance, we've bounced back and forth between those two for a while. She's down about 5859 inches, you know, overall, you know, strength dramatically increased. That's what I've done with most of the people because men, if you're in this age group and women, if you're in my age group, you don't have to work out six days a week, listen to these guys because it does work. But two or three days a week is plenty. So

I said no for sure about starting with anabolic or if I need to do like a mass starter type program or anything like that. Sorry. Are you saying just go ahead and roll it? No, I think anabolic basics, but we'll send you map starter. Yeah, just in case if you need to regress. Yeah. You're gonna feel that out better than us. And it is like to Sal's earlier point, the workout is like the least important part of this entire thing.

If a whole workout is you guys hanging out, chopping it up, and all you did was bench press for the hour, that's a win. That's it. If he's in a bench press, and he likes it, and he likes seeing himself, you could spend the whole hour on that. You could rest five minutes between sets. And just talking to him, and that right there

is moving the needle in the right direction with this kid, besides trying to, aside from trying to like add all this stuff and like what's ideal, we're not there, like let's get him excited about getting strong and hitting this protein shake, and I think that's gonna move the needle the most. Totally. Perfect, well man, I really appreciate your guys' input,

this will help a bunch, and I love what you guys are doing. You guys have helped me tremendously and the number every person that I work with I'm using Matt's programs for and it seems like it just never never slows down a little bit. They're always asking questions so I really really appreciate what you guys are doing. Thank you James. Thank you James, James. Dude, great work, man. Appreciate you. Yeah, keep it up, dude. I love that question. Yeah, it's the stuff that makes me feel good. It does.

And this is what all trainers need to understand this, because what we said about the relationship aspect with fitness with the kid is true for adults, too. When you get a client, now oftentimes with a client, you need to be a little bit more specific. They're more tolerant of maybe more guidelines, not always, but sometimes, often. But also with the client, you get a,

the typical client has not had a fitness consistency at all in their life, they eat like whatever. And so number one goal with the trainer is, can I help them develop a good relationship with this? And if you do that, they're there forever. If you don't do that, you can have the best work on the world and you'll fail. It sounds crazy to think this, but if I could only get him excited about one or two lifts, that might be the only thing we ever really think.

That's right. It's a huge win though. Huge. Like if he just gets... Especially a 15 year old, then he's gonna start wanting to do his own. He just gets excited about getting strong in a lift. I am completely focusing on that. Like everything we do, and if we do anything else, it's to support getting stronger at that and getting him at that. Like if you're like an example of that, Adam would be like, he's somehow naturally strong at bench press, so he's gonna fall in love with that.

Cool. One of those, he's gonna gravitate. Every once in a while, we'll do a couple things over here and there to keep you healthy, but let's get you strong at the bench, because he loves it. Our next caller is Betty from Utah. Hey, welcome back.

Hi guys, good to see you Hi guys. How are you doing? Good to see you guys again. How are you? Good. Can you hear me okay? I've got my headphones in. I want to make sure you can hear me okay. Now, if I recall, we have your notes up here. I do remember you.

You had a really rapid weight gain a short period of time and you went to go get your hormones checked, see what was going on. Do you have results? Yes, I do. Yeah. So I just have to tell you guys something that was really wild that happened. Um, so I submitted my question on Monday, got the email to be on your show on

Tuesday asking if I could be on it on Wednesday. So it was like very quick. And, um, so something interesting happened. I was like, yes, I was up to be on the show. I called my mom, I was super excited. And so we had the show and it was great. And I later found out that my father passed away the day that I called you guys. I'm sorry. And no, that's okay. But so my mom, she didn't tell me till after because she wanted like this to

go well. And I just wanted to say thank you for there was something serendipitous that happened that day that made me talk to you guys that day. And I don't think without the hive speaking to you guys that day, I would have made it through the rest of my day. So I just want to say something happened that I talked to you on that day for a reason. So thank you and thank you for having me back. Okay, Betty, thanks.

How can we help you? Thank you. So I got my results back and my blood was really super healthy, but my hormones were totally out of whack. My estrogen's super high, my testosterone is very, very low, and my progesterone is low.

So, I got my protocol and I'm on, um, 0.08 of testosterone injections once a week, and I have, um, progesterone, but I don't take it yet because I take it on days 14 through 28 of my cycle and I'm taking DHEA and my thyroid hormone. So I've been doing that I'm almost to two weeks it'll be two weeks on Friday since I've started everything. Okay so with the progesterone I'm assuming you take it before bed? I would, yes. I haven't started taking it yet.

Oh, you haven't tried it? Because my cycle hasn't got there yet. So, but yes, I'll be taking it before bed. I mean, this is good news that we know this now. It's good news though. Yeah, this is good. So you're on, it sounds like eight milligrams of testosterone, if I'm not mistaken.

The progesterone will help with things like calmness, anxiety. The thyroid will have the biggest impact on aesthetics. It'll have the biggest impact on weight. Now two weeks in, what you're probably just gonna notice from thyroid is energy, but give it about 45 to 60 days. If everything else is the same, then you'll start to see weight on the scale go down.

Okay, cool. And so I kind of did, like while I was waiting to get my blood work and everything back, because I had to get my blood work done doing my luteal phase, and I was in my luteal phase, like when I talked to you guys,

I had to wait a whole month for that to come around. So I've only been doing my hormones for, like I said, about two weeks, almost two weeks. And so far what I've noticed is like my anxiety and my stress is like gone. I didn't notice how bad it really was until I don't have it anymore. And so that's been amazing. So I got to say, you know, kudos and thank you because I went to my doctor and like I said, she was like, well, if you're having your normal cycles, your hormones are probably fine, but

they were not. So I want to say thank you. But so that's the biggest thing I've noticed so far. So I want to say thank you. But so that's the biggest thing I've noticed so far. And I kind of, I did a, I did MAPS 15, but I kind of like modified it a little bit. And so I've been working really on getting my calories up. I'm at about 2000 right now. I get anywhere from like 150 to 170 grams of protein and So I'm doing really good. I feel like I've my strength gone up quite a bit, but

It was cut like so today I weighed myself when I was 150 pounds and I was 146 when I talked to you guys But my body fat percent has gone down by like 1.5% since we talked to you. Yeah, so here's what you'll, so I'd say stay the course. The hormones, when that starts to kick in is usually around in terms of like what you really see, because right now you're feeling it, right? The testosterone is probably helping with the anxiety.

You haven't even started the progesterone yet. Wait till you start that. You're probably gonna feel really good when you get that. And the thyroid, the thyroid's probably giving you a little energy, probably a little bit more energy. But what you'll notice about month three is then your body's gonna change. As the hormones really start to work,

now the testosterone, the strength's gonna start kicking in. If it hasn't already, you'll probably start to feel it week three, week four. But by, like I said, 90 days is when you'll start to see just like, whoa, what's going on? My body's like changing and I'm keeping everything the same. So yeah, you're moving in the right direction. I think you're moving in the right direction.

Stay the course. I don't think you need to do anything drastic with diet. You can kind of stay the course. Keep strength training, stay active, be patient. People think when they go on hormones that overnight their body changes. It takes like three to six months for that. I mean you feel different relatively quickly,

but the visual changes to the body take between three to six months for most people. So stay the course. This is all great news. Totally. This is all really good news and I appreciate you coming on and sharing because I feel like this happens to so many female clients of mine that I've had where you know they see a general practitioner and they're like oh cycles

fine you should be fine you're young you're healthy you're good and it's like and then you go do a deep dive on your hormones go oh shit look at where my estrogen and testosterone like and that makes a huge difference on your ability to build muscle and burn body fat which And then also the anxiety of the also it's just awesome to hear that you got it checked that we know that that's what the what It is and it will it's just gonna get better from here. Mm-hmm. So keep doing stay the course Yep, be patient and it's gonna continue to get better Thank you Yeah, thank you for having me on because I do want to patient and it's going to continue to get better. Thank you. Um, yeah.

I thank you for having me on because I do want to show women that like, you're not crazy. Your hormones might just be out of whack. And it's kind of become like my tagline. Like if somebody is like acting crazy or like, you know, having issues or something, I'm like, maybe they need to get their hormones checked. But it's helped me so much already in these last two weeks. Like my husband's even like,

you're not crying all the time anymore. Like you're like, everybody's noticed a huge difference. And I especially have, and it's like, I'm a totally different person. I feel like I'm balanced and normal instead of like running hot like I used to. So it's been, it's been awesome. And I have noticed all of a sudden within this last week, my strength, like I feel like my bench, I was kind of stuck at a, where I was at like 165.

I just could not get any higher than that. So I started focusing more on benching with dumbbells and like incline bench instead of just normal flat bench. And my incline bench with the bar went up from my PR was 135, it's now 145 and I can rep like two or three with 135. And yesterday with dumbbells on incline bench, I used 50 pound dumbbells and I was able to get nine and I've never been able to do that before. So all of a sudden it's like things are starting to kick up, like kicking and ramp up and it's

actually like really fun to be like, things are changing. So it's been really, it's been a wild couple of weeks. But it's been really good. Betty, do you know that you're hella strong? Do you realize that? Yeah, you know what? I kind of do, but in my gym, I'm pretty much the only woman that's in the weight room,

and so when I see people lifting, it's all dudes, and it's like, of course it's a dumb comparison, but that's just who my peers are, you know? And so it's nice to hear. I've never trained a female client incline 135. If you have ever thought about competing in powerlifting, I think you'd do well. If you don't have our power lift program. I'll send that to you power lift um I think I do actually okay you

Either I either have power lift or I have strength I don't remember which one I have one of the two we'll check if you don't we'll send it to you because With a with a 135 in clay. I think he would smoke most women in the competition, at least in bench press. It's pretty fun. I don't know, I love it. And it's like, so shortly after we talked, I listened to your episode about my body types

and the endomorph, ectomorph, mesomorph, whatever. And I was like, I am 100% an endomorph, like I'm the person, I feel like I can build strength and build muscle, but my body doesn't get smaller, it just gets bigger. But it's like, and so when you guys said, you know, really lean into the strength and stuff, I really am listening and I'm eating and I'm trying and I feel like I finally broken through that wall that I had so it's been this last and it's so crazy because it's just two weeks but

these last two weeks I've noticed a big difference already so I'm excited to see in 90 days or so you know what really happens but awesome yeah thank you so much thank you so much thank And also, do you guys check the trainer forum often? Sometimes if you tag us, especially. Okay. Okay. If I have any questions, I'll just reach out to you there. But thanks for having me back on.

I hope this helps women everywhere. I hope one at least one woman hears this and decides to get checked and figure things out. So thank you so much. Thank you, Betty. Thank you, Betty. Thank you, Betty. Thank you, Betty. Thank you, have a good day, guys. Bye-bye. How you doing?

I'm convinced, convinced that a significant percentage of women who've been prescribed SSRIs or Enzylidic medications right around the ages of between 35 and 40s is because of the paramanopausal, menopausal changes in hormones. And most general practitioners or typical doctors are trained in using those medications to deal with those symptoms.

They're not trained in using hormones to deal with those symptoms. And we could talk about the reasons why, but so often this happens where you get a woman, they're like, I feel like I'm going crazy, I have all this anxiety, I don't know what's happening, my body's storing body fat in my belly. And the doctor's like, oh, you need a low dose of Zoloft

or you need Xanax or whatever, when it could be just like a little progesterone, a little testosterone, oh, I feel back to normal. Our next caller is Michael from Colorado. Hey, what's up, dude? Hey, what's up, Mikey? Hey, what's up, guys? Good to see you, man. How are you? You know our next caller is Michael from Colorado Mikey People don't know you you did Improv work with us back in the day help us get better at pod. You were the main reason Justin doesn't suck. Yeah

For the audience so they know started out second I'll take full credit. I'll take full credit. How you doing, man? How can we help you? Good. You know, I'm just gonna jump right into the question that I wrote.

First off, great to see you guys. I wanted you to know how much I appreciate everything you're doing, which is part of the reason why I'm calling you, because I want to share something I'm struggling with and would appreciate your thoughts on. Thanks to your podcast, Sal's book and the programs that I've got from you guys. I feel like I have more than enough information to make better life choices, but I'm running up against something that I think a lot of people, especially men, have a problem with. And the thing that I'm finding extremely hard to do as a man in today's society is admit that I need help

and then ask others for that help. So it seems for me it seems like it's something the guys are just kind of programmed into believing and one of the things I admired about you guys over the years is how you role model strong masculine characteristics and have allowed us as fans to come along that journey with you. And I wondered how you managed to work through the stigma and social pressure to kind of be a man and just handle your stuff, especially in a field where there's such a stigma and social pressure to fit the ideal macho dude stereotype.

Wow. So I just turned 60 and I made the same promise to myself this year that I made every year before. Eat better, hit the gym, follow a program. You guys, I'm sure you know the drill because you hear it all the time. But this year, you guys inspired me to admit that if I'm going to have a chance of success, I need help with this whole thing and I need to hire a trainer. For me, it's never been a matter of money that prevented me from getting a trainer. It was being embarrassed that I really did know what to do. I even have access to guys who are experts at fitness and training like you guys,

but I didn't ask anybody for help. So coupled with not knowing who to ask or where to find them, I fall into old patterns, which eventually lead to sitting on the couch with a bag of Doritos, to be quite honest. And, uh, the wild part of this for me is I've really admired you guys and how you ask each other for help and how you show support to each other. But when I think of asking for help, I feel like I'm weak or that I failed. I'm breaking some kind of macho guy code. And I'm curious how you guys approach a the challenge of recognizing you're in a situation where you need help and be identifying the best resource and getting over the hurdle of asking people for help?

Oh man, what a good question. Great question. Well first off, good friends, I think this is true mostly for men, if you have good buddies, they will tell you when you're messing up. Will cut right to it. They'll tell you when you're messing up.

And if you respect them, which if they're your friends, you do, then it's okay. See, there's a myth that men don't follow advice. That's not true. We just need to respect the person we get it from. And when we do, we follow very well. You get a guy with a mentor, a coach, a boss or whatever that they respect.

They are like, I'm following. So that's part of it. The other part of it is we were put in a unique situation as trainers. We all got into training at early ages. We loved what we did. We really wanted to help people. And if you really want to help somebody in our field,

I think this is true for a lot of fields like this, but in our field, if you really want to help people, over the years I think this is true for a lot of fields like this, but in our field, if you really want to help people, over the years you start to figure out what works and what doesn't. And what we all kind of realized was the more authentic and vulnerable we were, the more our clients trusted us and we were able to help them. And so it just kind of trained it in us.

I know it did for me. I know it did for me. I tell the story of this young girl I trained early on who had just battled anorexia and she had come out of the hospital, her parents hired me to train her. I met with her therapist, we got a little coaching and I remember in our first session, you know, something came over me and I said, hey, I know what it's like to have body dysmorphia and she looked at me like I was crazy. I said what's the opposite? I said it's the opposite of you. I said I force feed myself and I remember that moment was just like crazy shift like she automatically like

trusted me and I became much more effective and I had a lot of situations like that. The more honest and vulnerable I was with my clients the more they trusted me and the more effective I was and so because I cared so much about them it trained that in me and I know Adam and Justin had similar similar experiences. Similar but I have such a different reason for my I've been asked this a lot and I thought about it a lot and when I go back like what why is that like I have no we have we have a bunch of shit going on in the business right now and like I'm so quick to pick the phone up and ask a bunch of other people, how do I do this?

I can't solve this. I'm having a problem. And so for me, it's something that I've tied to with business success. As a young entrepreneur, I studied a lot of the most wildly successful people in the world and something that they all seem to have in common is the speed at which they can solve a problem. And they get to the answer as fast as possible. Now the reality is in life you're going to run into so many things you don't have the answers to and so I always ask myself like who do I know that has this answer for me

or could answer this question better than I could and I'm so quick to humble myself and go I don't know how to do this or can you help me do this or do you know somebody who and get to the answer as quick as possible and then commit to it. I mean that is something that I admire in people that I've met that are really, really successful even though they're incredibly confident in who they are, they're also humble enough to reach out or ask somebody else for help when they need it in order to get the answers. And so I've trained myself to do that at a pretty young age and it is something that I practiced and I think mine was more connected to the trying to be

successful at business. Why I fell into that. Can I add to that, Adam? I think you've identified being strong with being the guy that can find other people that will help. So that makes you feel, you know what I mean? Or just get to the answer. Right, yeah. Right, so that's the identity rather than I have the answers. The identity is I can find the answers.

Yes. Yeah. And so, I mean, so yeah, I think that's probably why I've been able to do that so successfully is I'm open to that. Why? Yeah. That's a great switch up of perspective because like, as opposed to the idea that I kind of buy into, which is, you know, as a strong man, I don't need help. Like I'm going to solve this problem myself. You know, so, so I buy the book and I read, you know, uh, the, the, I read Sal's book cover to cover and now I've got all that information. So, you know, as a strong man, I feel like I've got the information now as a strong man, I can solve my problem, but you're flipping it and saying strength

is admitting, admitting that you need help and, and reaching out for the help. So that's, that's flipping it on its head. You're right. I'm going to go straight to the smartest person. I mean, literally, I was just dealing with this right before we got on this call with you, like trying to get a, I'm looking for a lawyer that could do something very specific. And I'm like, I sent like 10 messages out between yesterday and today to people I know that probably have access to that person that could coach me on how I need to draft this letter and it's like I have no problem but I know I bet you out of those 10

someone is going to be awesome and like and then now I feel like once I get taught from that person it is a bit of mine like okay now I get it next time I have that problem I will know the answer but I don't know the answer right in this moment I'm'm going to find it. And I'm on, I'm on a mission right now as fast as I can to get that from help from somebody else. And so yeah, reframing it more like that as do I have a contact that is the best in this field or this thing to help me with this? And then if I help get help one time, like literally hold my hand through this process, I'll probably know how to do it next time.

And I feel like with you, that's us, right? To you in this situation is just like, hey, I know these guys that are really fucking good at this stuff. Like, let me get to them right away and see what they tell me I need to do, you know? Yeah. I think, I mean, I could relate a lot to what Adam's talking about, mainly from like an athletic perspective too, because, you know, and too, to your point, like,

we don't ask for help, and for me, that was a big struggle and a big shift and transition that I had to learn, and I've learned everything the hard way, and it's just part of the experience of, I'm gonna go drill this, I'm gonna go try and practice this as much as possible by myself, and you get to the conclusion that if I don't ask for help, I'm not gonna advance.

I'm not gonna grow. I'm not gonna move to a new place. I'm not gonna change. Because you're running old patterns and you're just continuously running with what you know, other people know more than you. And so for me, to really humble myself and then start bringing people in

and create accountability and create groups around me and mentors, that was a humongous shift for me. Then it's like everybody that wants to grow and succeed needs people, needs other people. You're not going to do this by yourself. Yeah, and then two, I learned a lot from my clients as well, just in order to convey and communicate to be able to be vulnerable and admit, you know, I have these flaws, I have the same struggles, I have a lot of these things in common. In that common human experience, a lot of people struggle with this.

So to just like admit that and release it is really liberating. Yeah, you know, it's cool Michael. There's some interesting data, I think, that connects to this. Now, it goes to religion, but there's a much bigger conversation around this. And I was looking up data on, in particular, religion, how you influence your family. And it's really fascinating in regards to men in particular. If a father is the first person to become a Christian, let's say, versus the mother or versus one of the children, the odds that the rest of the family will follow is significantly different.

So here's what the data shows. If it's mom, 30-something percent that the rest of the family will follow. If it's dad, it's over 90 percent. Now I heard Arthur Brooks communicate this and he said one of the reasons for this is when you're a kid dad is the biggest strongest guy and then you see him kneel down to somebody else and that has a powerful impact. Then there's other data surrounding this which is the most effective parents in terms of getting their children to follow their faith, what do they do differently? And it's the parents that apologize to their kids genuinely the most.

If you look at the sub data, it's the dads. So which dads are most effective with their kids? It's the dads that go to the kids and say, humble themselves and say, hey buddy, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have yelled that way. And who do that regularly. So where am I going with this? Male strength, true masculinity comes from that. It doesn't come from doing everything. It comes from the confidence that flows from being humble.

So it's a bit of a myth that masculine strength is having all the answers. That guy's not strong. That guy has, that guy's a bit insecure. The guy that's strong is the guy that goes, hey, I don't know how to do this. Can you give me a hand? That's the strong guy.

Yeah. You know, and I think it's ironic that, like I really buy into the concept, like if someone asked me for help, I'm so excited to help them and I really want to be there and help my buddies out, but flip the coin and I don't want to inconvenience my buddies. Does that make sense?

Of course. Well, I mean, look at this situation. We reached out for help from you. How many years ago you're just now getting to us. Maybe you guys are a lot smarter than I am, that's for sure. No. But you're right. You're right though. Like, like when I, on my 60th birthday, I'm sitting there thinking, like I'm making the

same resolution to myself that I make every year. But then I thought like, who are the, who are the smartest fricking guys that I know in this arena? And it's you guys. So, um, it, it, it's a little, it's a little bit embarrassing reaching out to guys that you look up to and respect to say, hey, I need some help. Like, I can't control this or I can't figure this.

I can't figure this puzzle out. But then it's like you said, you know, Adam and Justin both like humbling yourself and reaching out and saying, I can't do this is the only way to get past it. Right. Yeah. I respect you more now. Yeah. And I also think Mike, just, uh, you know, give yourself some grace here too. Like I actually think it's one of the more difficult things cause it's, it's, uh, it's science, it's human physiology, it's psychology. It's

like there, there, you're tackling all those monsters when you're in pursuit of building the body, the physique or the thing that you wanna do. It's not just X's and O's, it's not just do these exercises or just eat this thing. It's like, man, why do I have these behaviors? Why do I have challenges? I mean, boy, it really forces you

to solve a lot of different issues, not as simple as, like I can get anybody to that has crazy discipline to just do these things for the next eight weeks and they'll see some sort of change. But if you're trying to make lifelong behavioral changes, there's a massive psychology piece to this that unwinding that boy having a professional who can help you do that is paramount to your success. Very few people can just go solve it on their own. A lot of people think they can. No, the data shows it.

But they don't. And so being able to reach out to somebody who's really good at this and say, hey, you know what, like, I think I need to hire you for a while to just be that voice in my head for the next six months and see what a difference that makes. Oh man, it's a world of a difference.

Yeah, I'm 100% down with that. And something Sal said resonated with me too about a faith-based community. Like that's one of the first steps in a faith-based community is acknowledging that you're helpless and there's a power higher than you that you need to ask for help. Right. Exactly. That's the key. That's the crux of it all. 100%. And if you're in that community, you're surrounding yourself with other men who

have made that same commitment and have that same acknowledgement of, I need to ask for help from higher power, which translates also to, hey, I don't know how to fix this carburetor, but somebody I know does, and I'm going to humble myself and ask them how. Totally. That's right. One of the greatest sins is pride, and that leads to all the others typically, so 100%. Makes sense.

Yeah. Well, let us get one of our guys on you, Mikey. We'll have somebody call you. Yeah, please have somebody call me because one of our guys on you, Mikey. We'll have somebody call you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Please, please have somebody call me because the, the, the, the, one of the main reasons I reached out to you guys is, um, I made the commitment on my 60th birthday that I'm going to hire a trainer. But then I, I thought about it.

I'm like, like, I so respect and appreciate the programs that you guys run that I don't want to just, you know, go onto Facebook Marketplace and hire some trainer who doesn't, you know, subscribe to the same belief system that you guys do and kind of are approaching it from a holistic and full wellness perspective, not just not just bulk. No, 100%. Glad you did that. We got good people. Yeah. Yeah. Let us say we got you, bro. We'll take care of you. All right. I love it, man. Thanks, guys. I appreciate everything you do. And by the way, I would have really appreciated if you dropped off the quality for a couple of months, at least after I left.

You guys are killing it, man. I love it. I love everything you're doing. Appreciate it, Mike. Thanks, brother. You're awesome, man. Thanks, guys. Take care, man.

It was good to hear from him. Oh, yeah. People don't know that, right? Before our podcast, it was a peer. How long did we work with him for? Was it a year? Yeah, at least a year. He's not a year He's an improv coach and he would do these improv exercises with us to improve To help our skills. Yeah with communicating. Yeah take up in our flow for sure. Yeah

It was it was fun. He's a very talented guy. Really? Yeah, he's a great guy. Yeah No, I mean it was this was Doug's relationship a classic example of the question He's asking we all look at you. Listen, no, I mean, this was Doug's relationship. Classic example of the question he's asking. We all looked at each other, listen, we can get better at this craft. Where are we missing? Our flow, our communication. And Doug's like, listen,

improv coaches are great for that. That ability to think on the fly and do that stuff and flow with each other, that's a major skill. I know a guy. So Doug reached out, brought him in-house. And yeah, once a week, we used to meet with him before we podcast. We do all these weird improv. Yeah, they were fun. They were funny.

They were fun and really good. And I definitely got a lot of value from it. And shoot, we probably would, I think he moved is why we stopped, right? Exactly. Yeah. We probably would have been still doing it because even after we had learned a lot of the basics from him, we still felt the value of having that coach, um, just continue to push us in that direction. And so yeah, kudos to Mike. And love hearing that. I didn't, I didn't know if he had really continued on being a fan of the show and it sounds like he's been listening like pretty religiously. So that's cool. That's awesome. Yeah, it's really cool. Look, if you like mind pump,

check us out on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump Justin, I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano Adam. Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming

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