Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2672: Demystifying Bioregulators & Peptides With Nick Andrews

Episode Date: August 28, 2025

 Nick Andrews What drew him into the biohacking/optimization space? (1:38) GHK-CU and sunburns. (3:40) Is there a risk of downregulating your own production of a peptide because you are using one? (7:13) Are there peptides you shouldn’t combine? (8:51) The history of bioregulators and their difference from peptides. (12:56) Is Russia prescribing bioregulators? (31:00) The 3 tiers of optimization: Oral Supplements, bioregulators, and peptides. (35:52) His favorite bioregulators. (39:11) The pineal gland bioregulator for longevity. (42:05) Breaking down the ‘Push Patch’ technology, and why you feel it. (44:39) The Amazon effect: Why Entera’s GHK-CU stands out above the rest. (1:00:50) Which business venture has the most potential? (1:05:32) When should you take bioregulators, and should they be cycled? (1:11:38) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Luminose by Entera for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Promo code MPM at checkout for 10% off their order or 10% off their first month of a subscribe-and-save. ** Experience the science of longevity and peak physical performance with the Joint & Muscle Bundle from Promethean Bioregulators. ** CODE: JUSTINMPM for 10% off any first order (not only the Muscle and Joint bundle). ** Visit PRx Performance for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** No code for 5% discount gets automatically applied at checkout. ** What are Khavinson Peptides? An Intro to Peptide Bioregulators Mind Pump #2667: The Truth About New “Magical” Muscle Building Drugs & More With Dr. William Seeds Endoluten: The Pineal Peptide Bioregulator  High-Dose NAD+ Patches | NAD+ Supplementation | Push Patch Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Dr. William Seeds (@williamseedsmd) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump, Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we break down bioregulators and peptides with a biochemical engineer. This guy, Nick Andrews, he goes deep into the stuff. and we want to know, what's the big deal?

What's the deal, especially with bioregulators? They're so different from peptides. They do interesting things. So what we talk about in today's episode. By the way, the companies he's affiliated with use peptides and bioregulators. Let me give you the two. The first one is Interest Skincares. They use skincare products with peptides.

You can check them out at interraskinkare.com. That's E-N-T-E-R-A-Skincare.com forward slash mind pump. And then the bioregulators, oral bioregulators, which you'll learn all about in this episode, you can find at P-R-O-B-R-D-com forward-slash Mind Pump. Now, this episode is brought to you by a sponsor, PRX Performance. This is home gym equipment that's better than the stuff you see in the gym. They're famous for their squat racks that fold into the wall. But they have lots of, they have barbells, dumbbells, plates, all kinds of great stuff for your home jam.

And you can also pay monthly like a gym membership. Go try them out. Go to PRX-performance.com forward slash mind pump. You'll get 5% off on that link. Also, our sale this month, Maps 15 minutes is half off. If you're interested, head over to Maps 1.5Minutes.com. Use the code Muscle 50 for that discount. All right, here comes the show.

Nick, welcome back to the show. Thank you, Sal. It's great to be back. It's been a little while. For our audience, who isn't familiar with you, could you give a little background before we get into the real fun stuff? Yeah, quick and dirty. Worked in pharma and biotech for about 20 years, biochemical engineer by education.

eventually got tired of the corporate game and had already been in the biohacking optimization peptide space for about 10 years at that point and decided to go do the entrepreneurial thing and, you know, my first love was essentially the optimization, biohacking, the bleeding edge stuff. So start with skincare and then moved on to all these other fun things.

Anything in particular that drew you to that? Was it like a personal story or did you follow anybody in particular? or what drew you to that? Yeah, so actually personal health challenge. Before I had kids, I was really into extreme sports. Had a nasty downhill mountain bike crash. They'd take out a big chunk of the cartilage in the bottom of my shoulder and didn't have much, you know, use, mobility, range of motion of the arm after that.

And the common answer was you're stuck like that until you want a joint replacement. And that was the wrong answer. I already knew the space. So dug in, did my homework. and this was around 2006, before peptides were even really known out of very small circles. And only two answers I came up with that were probably legit were stem cells or peptides. And with stem cells, you're probably looking at multiple treatments. And then, as in now, that's expensive.

Very. $10,000, $20,000 a pop. Way too rich from my blood, especially, you know, just about to have young kids. So said, let's go the peptide route. And being in the field I was in, you know, I knew labs. It was, I knew guys. It was easy for me to basically get a hold of this stuff without needing third-party websites. So did some homework, came up with a protocol.

And it took about a year. But within about a year, I had regained full use of my shoulder. And it was all the way down the rabbit hole after that. Wow, that was the moment. Yeah, so I got to give you credit for something. So a while ago, I don't know if you remember, we did a podcast with you. And you talked about the peptide GHCCU. You had said you had gotten really sunburn and people could see here.

You have this in-complexion of Justin. Yeah. And you said that you had used GHKCU on your skin and the sunburn was like gone. I had a family friend or family member, I should say, that was visiting. Also very, you know, light-complected. We had gone to Santa Cruz and poor girl. She got totally sunburn. And I had some GHKCU, you know, cream, the ones you guys provide from Interra.

And I'm like, here, try this. And it was gone the next day. Yeah. It was wild. I did the same thing with Max, too, after a summer. Incredible how well it works. Pretty effective. It's really crazy.

It's like literally, I mean, it was sunburn where you're like, this is going to blister. Gone the day after. What's happening with the GHKCU that's making that transition so quick? Yeah, it's really cool. So essentially what happens is you're out in the sun. I'm out in the sun too long. Most of you guys are probably okay for a while. A sunburn is not an on or off thing, like a switch.

So you have excessive UV exposure and whatever. excessive is varies from person to person and skin type. But once you have excessive UV exposure, it essentially causes a reactive oxygen species, ROS, and other signaling cascade in the cells that basically say start the damage cascade. So once you come in, you're still, you still don't have a full sunburn. So, you know, think about it. You're, you're out for too long. You can come in. You may be a little bit pink, right? But you're not sore yet. It doesn't hurt yet. That may be hours in the next day. Because it takes that long for the essentially inflammation and damage signaling cascade to develop to cause all that to occur.

Oh, that makes sense. GHK essentially interrupts that signal and says, hey, guys, cut that crap out. Let's just go straight to repair and not worry about everybody losing their mind because of UV exposure. Okay. So you say, because that's what happened. We came home. She was super red. I'm like, this is going to blister.

Put it on, gone the next day. So it interrupts that the damage, go straight to healing. Yep. Right out the gates. And here's another cool thing. is if you apply it before you go out, even just a little bit, it actually makes you more resistant to that signaling cascade being started because it preconditions themselves into repair and regenerate state

instead of I'm just chilling and something might make me upset and go into a damage cascade. Is there, are there benefits? Because GHKCU, I put it in the same category in terms of like regenerative like BPC-157, thymus and beta. Is there a benefit for performance-oriented people? or is it mainly just for, like, skin health and the way your skin looks? Topically, it's going to be aesthetic for the most part. If you're getting into sub-Q, definitely.

So, yeah, I'll give you an example. My son plays soccer competitively. So if you're talking huge strain on the ligaments and tendons, especially in the knees, right? So, and obviously you'd have to be aware of WADA and where you're playing in the rules involved. But if the rules allow for it, you could use it almost like BPC. hey, three times a week, I'm going to do a subcue injection in the top of my knee right below my knee, just so you're never building up that excess, essentially wear and tear or stress damage to reinforce the ligaments.

Because this is a simplification, but essentially what it's doing is at the molecular signaling level and actually at the DNA level with GHKCU, it's keeping the cells in a repair or generate state. Okay. Is there ever a risk of down-regulating your own production of a peptide because you're using a peptide? There is, but it's generally for most peptides, it's when you get to extreme levels. Okay.

The ones, and I'm kind of making up a number here, just order of magnitude. For GHKCU, the highest dose study I'm aware of is 50 milligrams IV. Like, that's a bomb on your system. Right. Because a normal sub-Q dose would be what? A lot of people will do less than one milligram. If I use it, I usually do five milligrams, honestly. Wow.

So even if you did one milligram. a day, that's seven milligrams a week versus 50. It's one-tenth. Correct. A lot of peptides are like that. You know, the TB-500 is another one. A lot of people will dose partially because it's expensive as well. But, you know, maybe 500 micrograms, maybe a milligram.

And we've talked about this before, but if you really dig into it and experiment with it, the magic of TB-500 is regenerative properties really shows up around five milligrams to 10 milligrams. And most people are like, oh, my God. Like, you know, that's going to hurt me. You can go, there are, there's a few human studies, but there are actually quite a few animal studies. And if you do the dose conversion from the animals to the human, the potential problematic dose

starts to get it is somewhere around one gram. Oh, yeah. You're not going to get that. And if you just apply, you know, even a huge safety factor, you know, divide that by 10. Like, who's going to, just on a cost for a second? Who's going to be injecting 100 milligrams of TB 500? Like, that's your car. Right, right.

With peptides, I want to get to bioregulators. That's really what I'm going to get. But I want to stay on peptides here for a second. When you're using certain peptides are the ones that you're probably not a good idea to use at the same time. I'll give you an example because I had this experience myself. There's two peptides that are regarded and correct me if I'm wrong is mitochondrial function enhancers or they help with the mitochondria function of the body. SS31 and MOTC, but they both work very differently. I took them both in one day once, and I did not like the way I felt.

And I was told it's not a good idea to use both at the same time. If you're going to use them, use them at different times. So did I make a huge mistake? Are there peptides you shouldn't combine? Like what happened there? Or was I just placebo? You didn't make a huge mistake. It's actually a fascinating point that there's very little discussion.

And there's another peptide related to the reason behind this that I'm about to get into. And that one is CJC. Okay. So you guys have probably heard people use CJC and like, oh, I got a reaction or I felt weird, right? True. That's the growth hormone releasing one or whatever, right? Yep. Okay.

So the reason that's happening is both MOTC, so let's start with MOTC, you have histamine receptors in your body that calls a histamine response. Sure. So MOTC, its molecular structure, fits the histamine receptors shockingly well. Okay. So, for instance, I can't do MOTC. I would love to do MOTC. Like, I, I've literally tried one microgram, and I break out in hives.

Oh, yeah. And Doug got a reaction to MOTC, I think, right? When you did it sub-Q, you got like a red spot, yeah. So if you ever get a reaction from it, yeah, probably clinicians, dude, yell at me for this, do five milligrams of KPV. Okay. Because the signaling cascade that that triggers in the histamine reaction, the peptide KPV shuts it down. Okay. Okay. Okay. So inject one milligram to five milligrams in the same spot, like as soon as a reaction starts, and it shuts it right down. Okay. Okay. So circling back to your question, what's going on there is, and this is a very rough correlation, the more fair you are, and as to why, I mean, that's probably a wide open debate. But the more fair you are, the more likely you are to have these sorts of reactions. Just think more rolling in the grass. Fair people are more likely to get a, you know, itchy and all that from rolling in the grass and somebody with a darker skin tone.

So, yeah, as a very, very crude rule of thumb, the darker skin tone, the less reactive you're going to potentially be to any of these. In your case, you use MOTC. And combine it with SS at the same time. Right. So what happens is your body can react to almost any peptide. Foreign molecules coming in, even if your body normally makes it, it's floating around in a way it wouldn't normally.

Right. It's all boom in one spot suddenly. Right. So, you know, that can increase vigilance of your immune system. Whoa, what's going on over here? Maybe I need to start paying attention and check it out, which is, think of that as the beginning stage of a histamine reaction, like feeling weird or itchy. So, you know, in your case, your body tolerates it well enough where you don't get a

histamine reaction. It's just kind of like, hold on. I'm a little nervous right now. So now when you bring in SS31, well, it's already on the lookout for something that it wouldn't normally be there. Okay. So now you get a reaction to SS31 when you wouldn't normally get it. Okay.

Okay. So it was okay to combine them because I felt kind of shaky and a little like, am I just, is my mitochondria producing too much energy? Is it overloaded? I mean, I have no idea. Yeah. I mean, that's a possibility, but from my experience and just the reading I've done on it. Okay. Unless you're getting into really high doses of those, it's almost entirely likely.

it's more related to a histamine response. Interesting. Could have been one of the other 100 things you take to. Well, no. It could totally be. I'm pretty sure these two things did it. Never mind the other. And it could be.

It could also be the higher doses that I didn't mess with. But that's not what I did. All right, let's talk about bioregulators. Let's talk about the history of them. And then I'd like to get into what's different about them because they're still considered peptides, but they're different than traditional peptides. Yeah. And that's going to be a great point.

That's one reason there's so much confusion around it. Okay. So what's the history of them? So from when I'm familiar, there was a, I can't remember his name. There was a doctor or scientist who developed them and used them in Russia. So what's the history of them? And are they currently being used anywhere, like on a prescription basis? Yeah.

So the guy you're talking about is Dr. Cavansson. That's it. So go back to the Cold War, the 60s, the 70s. You know, Russia had somewhat been cut off from Western medical technology. They needed to kind of go their own route, develop their own homegrown stuff. A small sidetrack that we have to do to really understand this difference is the U.S. and Russia take fundamentally different approaches to essentially all technology. The West essentially takes what you could call a regulatory approach of what are the rule sets for me to discover something, validate it, develop it, and move it into the marketplace. So those are my steps.

Russia takes the inverse. So in the West, like, all right, let's follow the proper rule sets to find something cool that works, tested the right way at an early stage, and now it's start going into people and see what happens. Russia pretty much does the opposite. Russia says, we have a problem. We need a solution. So what's going to work? So you don't just put random stuff into people, even in Russia.

But, you know, they'll have their Uber Lab nerds come up with some stuff and like, hey, it worked in a few dogs. It worked in a few mice. great go straight to people so in the West you're spending huge amounts of time and money figuring out the exact modality of a tool how do you apply this in what case and what manners

in Russia find something that works and then put it into we'll say the marketplace or whatever form that takes whether it's the military or consumers and then let's figure out how best it fits there so they're essentially inverse approaches okay so

coming back now that we explain that 60s, 70s in Russia This is they're in the Soviet Union too So I got to imagine that they're even more that way This is like they're just going to okay Yep So they said Hey we need to develop medical technology

Their primary interest was for their soldiers Secondary was the public medical stuff Athletes So wouldn't found one of their big brains Who happened to be Kavinson Basically put him in the military In a military research institution And said

Go figure it out however you want to do it, go figure it out. So he'd been looking into organ extracts and things like that for a while and noticed that, hey, organ extracts taken from one animal can help another. So went down that route, started doing all his experimentation. Is that glandular therapy? Is that what that was referred to? Yep.

Okay. And that was the original founding of bioregulators, because through his work, he found that you could take these purified organ extracts, give them to soldiers, and this is how they were testing them. their endurance would increase, their recovery would increase, their stress tolerance would increase. So, oh, cool, now we have stuff and they just ran with it. And, you know, they keep him doing his work, you know, in his lab, and he just kept refining it. So I'll jump ahead a little bit here. So with bioregulators, you're generally going to see three different types referred to,

which is part of the confusion as well. You'll see citamins, cytomaxes, and cytogenes. They're all bioregulators are over and you'll see names used interchangeably too because as we talk about it um you know it will refer to it in terms of organs heart bioregulator bone bioregulator um but you'll see different names out there so for instance blood vessel um you'll see uh vizugin uh for heart you'll see kilo heart it those are really uh trade names brand names not not structural names not product names so kavinston kept doing his work and said great. I can take this gross extract, just, you know, a bucket of liquid extract essentially, right? And it's got a ton of stuff in here. It's a soup of molecules, and it works. That's

cool. But being an accomplished scientist, well, what parts in there are doing the magic? So over time, he just honed in and basically the easiest way to explain it is filtered it more and more and more and more to figure out which exact molecules we're doing what. That's where the difference between citamins, cytomax, and cytogens come from. So citamins, you can think of as sort of the broad soup of an organ tissue extract. So generally speaking, bioregulators are a subclass of peptides, but in most cases, bioregulators are anywhere from about two to seven amino acids. So, I know most of your audience knows this, but to understand the difference between amino acid, a peptide, and a protein, you think of Legos, and the difference is how many are clicked together. If you have three to five, three to seven Legos click together, that's functionally a bioregulator.

One Lego brick by itself is an amino acid. Okay. And, you know, once you get over about 50 Lego bricks clicked together, now you're a peptide, and they act differently because of, you're a peptide. biology, size and shape also impacts how they behave in the body and what they can do. Okay. When you're saying like these extracts, are they just taking like a thymus and making it so you could just take that and inject it? Or are they actually looking at, like you said, what they're looking for is what's doing the thing? What is it that they're finding?

They're finding these short peptides that seem to do what exactly? It's called a regulator. What does that mean? So I'll give you the crude overview of essentially how they were originally made. You take an organ, you throw it in a blender, you blend it up really well, and then you put it through a series of filters so that everything above a certain molecular size is filtered out. Okay. So now you're left with, to be frank, because I've done this in a lab,

a weird colored liquid that smells really bad. And it's all those bioactive molecules. You know, organs don't usually smell good, like, if you've ever been around to butcher or anything like that. So now, to the next question, what are they doing? This is actually a really important question and actually really fascinating. So, you know, to keep this from being confusing, I'll just clarify. When I say peptide, I'm referring to the common peptides. Most people know that you would inject BPC, TB 500, so on and so forth.

bioregulator is going to be these molecules, which are generally seven amino acids or less. So with peptides, you get into another area of confusion here, because you hear the constant debate, you can't use peptides orally because they'll get broken down by your stomach, and they're mostly useless. Now it's just amino acids. Right. Okay. So, and that's a true statement. Bioregulators can be taken orally, and when you tell people that, they're like, no, you can't, because you just told me if I take it, my stomach's going to break it down.

I got to pause right there. We had Dr. Seeds on the show, and that was his, that was his critique of a bioregulator orally, is that you're just going to destroy it in the gut, so it's a waste of time. So there's published papers on this, and there's a very clear answer, mechanistic answer that explains it. So the main enzyme that chops proteins up, whether it's a steak or TB 500, if you were to take it orally, is pepsin. It's running around like a pair of scissors in your stomach.

just chopping all the proteins and peptides up. Generally speaking, pepsin does not attach well to molecules, to bioregulators to peptides that are less than about seven amino acids. Because this is a loose explanation, but you essentially need a large enough molecular area for it to attach to and start chopping stuff up.

So once you're under about seven amino acids, it's going to be chopped up a little bit. without question, but it isn't going to get completely destroyed. BPC 157 is, I believe, about 50 amino acids. So BPC 156, like, I'll use a better example. Yeah, because that one's orally bioavailable. A little bit. So TB 500, so actual thymus and beta 4 is a very large molecule. Okay. TB 500 is a fragment of it. Right. But even that fragment is still a very large molecule. Somebody will probably correct me here. I believe it's about 40 amino acids. 40 amino acids is getting sliced and diced up down left and right by Pepsiin. So you can't

really go any smaller than that fragment of the full of thymus and beta four molecule and have it be active. So once that 40 amino acid block starts getting chopped up, like you're done. Okay. Game over. So the second piece to this is you have to a transporter in the lining of your gut called PEPT1. PEPT1 directly essentially latches on to amino acid chains, peptides, but only ones that are about seven amino acids or less. So you have direct transport pathways, active pathways, out of your gut, into your bloodstream for bioregulators. You don't have that for peptides. Peptides have to go all the way through digestion and then try to pass through the gut lining.

And there's no passing through the liver, how does it get to the bloodstream? So they're still going to go through the liver. Okay. And you will get additional degradation there. It's not a huge number of studies. There are a handful of degradation studies out there on peptides. And, you know, these are, I'll say educated estimates.

You know, it's not like there's 500 papers. so you can say a hard number. But realistically, when you take a bioregular orally, you're probably getting somewhere 10 to 30% into systemic circulation. Okay. And you can also, you can get to that number a few different ways. There are some degradation studies. There are also actually a number of radioisotope labeling studies.

So they take one of these molecules and they make part of radioactive essentially. They tag it. Yep. Yeah, you put it in a rabbit, a dog, among. and you look at where it goes. They've done that with multiple of them, and based on where it's going, you can now make legitimate calculations

that to see this much radiation around the body, you had to have at least this much of the stuff get all the way through digestion and into the body. Okay, so correct me if I'm wrong. When your body breaks down amino acids, each amino acid does something on its own. You have a complete protein that does something differently. when you're taking these chains that are seven amino acids long, let's say, or less,

that has a particular signaling process in the body. It knows where to go, essentially. Essentially. And to me, this is actually the coolest thing about bioregulators that I actually don't think I've ever heard anybody talk about, at least in any of the podcasts I've listened to. So let's take a step back. How do peptides work? When you take a peptide, it's essentially looking for a receptor.

Right. So let me hit that receptor. And a peptide is essentially ramping something up, generally speaking, above baseline function. So if a certain function in your body repair and regenerate, you know, microvascular growth, even if you're, you know, the pinnacle of health and you're operating at 100%. If you take BPC, it's going to improve your microvascular. Right. It's going above 100%. Bioregulators don't work like that. bioregulators don't work through the receptors. So bioregulators are freaking fascinating because what they do is they, you know, they have to go through digestion, as we just spoke about.

They end up in primary circulation. And then they go directly into the cell. There's a few ways they can do it. They can do it through diffusion. They can do it through being actively pulled into the cell through a few different mechanisms. And so they can go into pretty much any cell for the most part. but yeah when you say seven amino acids that I think a lot of people would be like well you're not going to have many combinations that you can have right to actually it's actually a massive number because if I won't go down this road to calculate it's an exponential function yeah it's like five times five times five times five so it's a huge number yeah you can organize seven in a lot of different ways right so what happens is especially in smaller molecular structures charge structure becomes Very, very important.

Yeah, if you get into, like, all the lipid nanoparticle technology, which is, like, all the rage lately, it's the same thing. It's entirely dependent on charge structure to be able to deliver it to something. So bioregulators, in a sense, are working at the same level of, like, what we just now have as, like, cutting-edge technology as to how they home in. So they get to a cell, does it have the right charge? Certain cells have different charges on the outside. so they're going to be more likely to be accepted by certain cells,

depending on their charged structure and their amino acids structure. When they go into the cell, they're actually small enough to pass into the nucleus. So now, once they're in the nucleus, they actually directly interact with either or both, DNA directly, or histones, molecules related to the DNA. So bioregulators are directly signaling the DNA. Okay. Okay. And now, what are they doing? Because a peptide signal specific things. Bioregulators, I'm assuming the regulator part of it means it's just making it, it's optimizing its function, up, down, depending on what the cell needs. Right. So that's why I brought up what peptides do before.

To put it into one sound bite here, peptides focus on receptors, which are generally in the outside of tissue, outside of cells, and ramp it up over 100%. bioregulators go to the nucleus and interact with DNA or histones to tell them to go to their baseline homeostasis state okay so you have a you have a liver let's say that's operating suboptimal or sub baseline it's dysfunctional let's say you got some elevated liver enzymes maybe a little fatty liver disease whatever a bioregulator will go in there and tell the cells, hey, let's get back to operating optimally, and you see improvements essentially. Right. So, interestingly, there is a slight overlap in function in GHKCU and bioregulators, because GHKCU absolutely works through a wide array of receptors. But GHKCU also can signal to the DNA to shift back

to homeostasis. There may be others. It's actually the only peptide I'm personally aware of that actually does that. So it's very unique in that sense. But that's exactly how bioregulators work, and that brings up another difference, which causes more confusion on bioregulators. You take peptides, like, hey, I messed up my knee or my shoulder or whatever. I'm going to go use BPC and TB 500. You know, hey, some people are like, I feel a difference in a day.

Some people are a week, but if you're using it right, you're going to feel it. No question within a week, usually within a few days. bioregulators are slow and steady because they're never ramping it over 100%. So they're just saying, let's go back to our baseline health state, homeostasis. So that is a slow and steady operation. And the majority, I'll say probably in the majority of cases, you're usually not going to have an overt subjective effect of, oh, wow, I feel that. There are two easy examples that are exceptions.

to that. One is in men's health. As men age, you know, due to hormonal balance, even if you're optimized, you know, TRT and all this and all that. Just older. Right. Morning erection in men is a very easy, very obvious sign of hormonal health. And, you know, that also gets into vascular factors and all that.

And, you know, as we age, you know, whether it's, you know, women know this because their husbands, men know this because they live it. as you age, you're not waking up every morning having to be careful to roll over, even if you're absolutely optimized. So if you take testes and prostate bioregulator, and the perfect stack for basically men's sexual health would be testes, blood vessel, and prostate, if you take those three, most guys within a week, some guys, two weeks, you will absolutely notice a difference of, you know, morning erectile function when you're waking up.

Okay. Over how long? So how long that lasts? Or no, how long do people notice? How quickly? Three days to a week you say that. Is that same?

Some people in a couple days, I usually tell people one to two weeks. Most within a week, if you're struggling with health, you know, there can be any number of health issues. Your health isn't really dialed in. It may take two weeks because you're,

all the tissues involved have further to go to get back to homeostasis. One thing that I see is when I, when you look up and research on just peptides, many of them are still used or prescribed medically in Russia. Like they'll prescribe CMAX for anxiety, sorry, CMAX for cognitive function or C or a selank for anxiety, for example. Like you go there, this is, this may be a prescription that you get if you have cognitive decline, anxiety, whatever.

They do this with other peptides. Are they prescribing bioregulators? Is that part of their. medical system as well. You know, that's kind of interesting because I have a few contacts, you know, in my personal circle in Russia. And, you know, they're looked at, at least as it's been explained to me, first off, to answer your question, they're entirely over the counter.

Okay. The citamins are largely ignored from what I'm told. Like, oh, that's all like 1970s stuff, who cares. If they're used, it's more of the health optimization equivalent of the circles in the West. And those would more often be the cytogenes. Okay. So that's one piece I didn't touch on before. I explained citamins and cytopaxes.

So citamins are just essentially the bulk stuff. It's loaded with the direct bioregulators, but also larger molecules. The cytomaxes are purified down to, for the most part, just the pure bioregulators. And then Kavanaugh and other people took the research a step further and said that, okay, we have these larger amino acid chains, you know, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, whatever it is, that produced this effect. But even when you do that, you're going to end up with a soup of these. so if you go through like lab level super ultra purification you may find when you're doing like mass spec and all this stuff that hey there are five six seven eight of these bioregulators that are coming out of a heart for a heart bioregulator when you do the lab work what they find with these and this is to find this stuff you have to go to Russian literature and translate it's another issue it's not easy to go dig this up but what they usually find is that one or two of them is that one or two of them is producing something like 80% of the effect. Okay.

So instead of having to go, yeah, it's a complicated process and functioning labor intensive to be like, I got to go collect, you know, 5,000 hearts and extract all this to get enough to go sell in the market. Got it. Well, if I can just identify that one bioregulator, that one five amino acid chain that produces 80% of the effect, it is far easier and far more efficient for me to now just go to the lab and produce that bioregulator, that one specific one out of the 3, 4, 5 that produces the effect, the same way I would produce a peptide. You can do it on a machine automated. So that's

a cytogen, is that we identify this is the one that produces 80% of the effect. So we're going to make it entirely synthetically. That's what I was just going to ask you. So they're not taking a bunch of cow hearts. They're actually making it synthetically. Correct. Wow, that's interesting. So here's how I see, because I love going on the internet, and bodybuilders are the best at experimentation. They're typically the ones to try things first. And I've been reading about bodybuilders using the heart bioregulators because of years of use of growth hormone and anabolic steroids. The fear being the enlargement of the heart, issues like that. And they're saying, I'm using this to help offset some of that.

Is that an appropriate, does that make sense? It does make sense. The catch 22, you know, from the Western perspective, is, and you know, you guys see this all the time, you talk about it on your podcast constantly, just because this is a Western view is, show me the paper, show me this exact mechanism, that exact mechanism. They work. There's lots of Russian literature. You know, guys can verify pretty easily themselves via biological effect. So they do work, but they're slow and steady. And in the case of bodybuilders, is it going to completely.

counter that? The answer is no. Because when you get into why is, you know, why are you getting an enlarged heart and other secondary cardiac effects from excessive, you know, androgen cycles and things like that, you have a number of effects causing it. It's not just, we'll say, cellular disruption of homeostasis. So they're helping that effect. People at that level using those compounds at those doses, you have other effects going. So, it's a Band-Aid. It's not a Band-Aid. It's helping one piece of the puzzle.

Okay. But there's a lot of things happening. Yeah, I liked where you were going earlier about being able to kind of check and see, like, especially with men's sexual health, like an actual effect and a feeling associated with this. I know as a consumer, it's kind of difficult to describe, like, bioregulators and their, you know, their benefit to them. Is there any other, like, so would you be? paying attention to blood markers and how often would you kind of check to see how things are working and benefiting you? Like, are there other types of indicators that you could pay attention to different stacks that you might be able to like feel something and peer into that

a little bit more? Yeah. So, you know, for instance, there are, there are, you know, there are human studies on bioreulators. They are on PubMed. Most of them are coming out of Russian institutions which some people don't like, and that's their choice. But for instance, retinal bioregulator. There are human studies that showed improvement of a few different retinal conditions in a medical setting, medically measured. You know, another example is another confusion point of bioregulators. A lot, sort of like peptides.

So, for instance, BPC and TB 500, They do, they function through two core different pathways, but if you dig into the pathways, they hit, they do overlap. They hit some of the same pathways just to different degrees. Bioregulators can be the same. So certain amino acid chains can cause functions and be taken in by multiple tissue types. One example is bone bioregulator. So bone bioregulator is extracted from the bone marrow. So bone bioregulators will improve marrow function, which improves bone, but it also improves T-cell function.

Because of the bone marrow. Right. And it does also have other secondary minor effects and other immune-related tissues. Would there be endurance boosts because of that, red blood cell production or anything like that? There can be, but once again, the way to understand bioregulators, and I thought about this. a lot, actually, if we're coming here, what's an easy way to communicate this, is, and this is what I came up with, is, think of it as three tiers. You have standard oral supplements, you know, whether it's, you know, magnesium or anything else, right? Then you have bioregulators, and then you have peptides. So each level is essentially a different level of intensity. Okay, okay. So would a bioregular be more like a, like a, like a, like a, light dimmer switch, turning it up or down depending on what your body needs? Right.

So to really go down this rabbit hole, I would actually redefine the common term optimization to a point in that I would almost refer to bioregulators as optimizing compounds because they're shifting the tissues they target back to your baseline homeostatic state. And then peptides would be above and beyond. Above and beyond. So are they good to use together? Absolutely. Okay. What are your favorite bioregulars? What are some of the reviews you're getting that people are like, oh, this one?

I mean, you mentioned the male health one because that's a very obvious sign. Are there any favorites among your performance-driven individuals or people who are looking for cognitive enhancement, anything like that? Yeah. So I'll shift the sphere for that a little bit there. So, you know, Promethean works with clinics to get them bioregulators. and one place that, like, there are clear results by clinicians using this in the real world is actually with people undergoing chemotherapy. Oh.

Because, you know, chemotherapy is rough on your body. You know, it has a huge impact besides just the cancer on your immune system, your cardiovascular system, and other areas. So, you know, there's a number of clinicians, which are more open to these routes, that have been using thymus, bone marrow. and blood vessel bioregulators. Just more as a protective route? Either protective or as post-chemo. It depends on when the person comes to them. Especially in the functional medicine world,

people are usually coming after they've kind of given up on the mainstream. But they do have some clients who are like, yeah, unfortunately, you know, the big C showed up, like, you know, we've got to take care of this. So you can start beforehand. And that's not going to prevent all the side effects of chemotherapy. therapy, but it's going to reduce the magnitude of them. Okay. Because now you have a mechanism, just think of a push and pull, right, from a training

sense. You have chemo pushing those functions down so they're not working as well. Bioregulators are helping balance by continually signaling the DNA to say, nope, stay in the homeostasis state and build and repair. Yeah. And I did see some studies, again, Russian studies that show that they're anti-cancer cell proliferation in some of these studies with these bioregulators. Yeah. So multiple bioregulators, all the studies I'm familiar with, they're basically like petri dish studies in individual cells. But it makes absolute sense because what is cancer? Cancer is essentially derangement of a cell. It stops doing what it's supposed to be doing normally and goes off doing bad stuff that makes you sick and kills you, right? So if you look at Western technology, there are multiple Western therapeutic approaches trying to figure out how.

to tell the cell to go back to the healthy state. Bioregulators do that. Now, bioregulators are not like, they're not like dropping an atom bomb on something. So you're not going to say, and I don't think anybody would ever claim, bioregulators are going to cure cancer. Right. Highly unlikely. Right.

But the mechanism is there, and it's been proven in labs, that it does shift cancer. Well, it can shift some portion of cancer cells back to a normal healthy health. state. Okay. One of the bioregulars I'm interested in is the pineal gland one. And it's not necessarily because I know a lot about the pineal gland, aside from the, you know, you hear people say things like the pineal gland is what gets you to, like when you, when people take psychedelics, that's what opens up or it gets calcified from, you know, from water being, you know, having too much fluoride in it or whatever. What do you get from using a pineal gland by a regulator? So your Your pineal gland goes back to baseline.

What do you experience from that? Is it affected by 5G? You know what? That's the only other conversation. If you look at studies, I mean, most brain tissue is going to be impacted by it. Good job, that's kind of a joke. But okay. Payneal gland, but okay.

Yeah, I want to sidetrack you. Yeah. So the way to understand pineal gland and some of the other ones is you have your endocrine system. Peneal gland, it's kind of like the parathyroid. Peneal gland and parathyroid, like, most people are like, what is that? Oh, I have that. I didn't know I have those in my body.

But they're both critical to endocrine function. Oh, okay. So for pineal gland, yeah, yeah, and I'm not shooting it down. I'm just using the term. I mean, you can get into the more woo-woo aspects. How open are you to, you know, the medical metaphysical space and all that. But without even having to get there. The pineal gland and I'm throwing parathyroid in here, because for,

like, what the hell is that? Both of those are organs that play critical roles in multiple fashions in your endocrine system. So, endocrine system ties back to everything. It ties to hormone levels, stress response, just including how you age, because all this stuff is actually, if you look at all the major signaling systems in the human body, the vast majority of them are all tied together through the endocrine system, through various signaling cascades. So another example is, this is an uncommon one. You have a middle-aged woman, a busy life, whether it's kids, work, both, everything, whatever else. And, you know, they can struggle with stress.

And that cascades into hormone dysfunction, and it can cascade into endocrine dysfunction as well. So bioregulators, once again, are not going to fix those issues 100% on themselves. But, I mean, I do private health coaching. on the side. I use these with some people. I've absolutely seen an effect with a number of women I've worked with by having bioregulators on board. Okay. I got to give you credit because and I want to talk about your push patch because NAD is all the biohacking space. I love to talk about NAD. I've used NAD subque intramuscular. I did an IV. Never liked any of it. The intramuscular subcube didn't notice anything. We did an IV. We actually had somebody come in here.

They were trying to convince us to partner with them. And they gave us a free, like massive dose of NAD. So we all sat here hooked up to these things. For three hours. And we were here for like an hour and a half. I remember I was, and I did not like it. My legs felt heavy. Didn't sleep. Didn't feel good. And then later on, I just didn't notice much of an effect. But there was an acute crappy feelings. What happened? I've used supplements that raise NAD. Notice nothing. I get nothing from them. Now, some people love it. Some people notice a difference. Zero. You have a something called a push patch with NAD. That works for sure. I give that to my wife, myself, these guys in here, is one of the few things these guys fight me over. Oftentimes I take all the supplements home

or whatever products. Those patches come in and we're like, you know, perfectly dividing them because all of us notice the difference. All of us have personally reported back that we feel the difference in it, including our wives, too. I mean, that's what she's always asking me to grab more because of that. Anytime I've been sick, it's become like part of the protocol to take that right away. And I swear it cuts it in half. Oh, and then energy wise, I just feel, I'm not like stimulated like caffeine. It just feel good all day long. We're like flying. You're getting on a six hour flight until I was, you know, until I became part of push patch helped develop the product. I'd get on a flight, even for two hours. I would get off. I was in a brain fog for like a day. Yeah.

I mean, I can fly to Europe now and get off the plane and be ready to rock. So, okay, so why, why am I, Why do I notice a difference? Because you send us stuff all the time. And I've used it, I don't know, at least 20 times. My wife has used it just as many times. Why do I notice such a big difference with that versus even the IV? We got a massive dose. All of us were sitting here doing it.

And I didn't like that. And yours with the pushback, I noticed. I felt great. What's the difference? So to use a training analogy to keep it simple and then we can dive in, you know, more technical if you want, is I think you're going to do an extended training session, right? I'm going to go train for four hours, biking, running, lifting, CrossFit, whatever it is, right? Let's say you know you're going to drink a gallon of water over that four-hour training period.

Well, if I tell you to drink that whole gallon right now, like, yeah, any of the sitting here could do it, and it's not going to be fun. You're going to have a stomach ache. You might puke, or are you just going to be, dude, I feel bloated. Like, I'm not going to go lift now. Right. And, okay, technically you're hydrated, but two hours and, you're, to that workout.

Dehydrated. The water's gone. You're dehydrated. And now you probably have a stomach ache and all the other cascading issues of pounding that, you know, gallon of water at front. If you go to the other extreme end, you have NAD subcue and you have oral supplements. So that's kind of like hand in somebody, you know, like the little paper cup, you know, you see in bathrooms of water.

Like, the dentist. Yep. Like, okay, like, I'm not thirsty right now because, all right, that was a little. drink of water. But, you know, it's a quick hit. Like in five minutes, I'm going to be thirsty, and that's all the water there was. So, you know, coming back to supplements, some people love it. You know, my 78-year-old mother, they're awesome for her, because once again, it's situational. Somebody older, you know, or somebody who's in a fairly poor state of health, that's enough to cause a difference. A difference for them. For somebody who's younger or somebody who's very

fit or optimized, your body already operates at a high enough level that that's unlikely to make a dent in your natural production. So in the middle, the sweet spot is let's take that gallon of water and put it in like a hydration backpack with your little straw and now you can sip on it pretty much consistently for the whole four hours. Now you're not thirsty. Now you don't have a stomach ache and now you stay hydrated the whole time. So if we translate that back to how does this matter to NAD, is as soon as NAD goes into your body, it can be degraded via a number of routes, a number of enzymes.

So that's going on. And secondly, everybody thinks of NAD is mitochondria in the cell energy. I know you guys know this. But what some people may not know is you actually have two pools of NAD. you have an intracellular and an extracellular. So you have NAD in the cell and you have NAD outside of the cell. Now, that does a few things. That gives your body basically a reservoir in a way to balance

so it can pull stuff into the cell when it needs to. But NAD is also a signaling molecule for your immune system and for other functions. Essentially, think some more complex in this, but think free NAD floating around in blood or bodily fluids. So we have a signaling molecule here. If I flood your body with that molecule, it also happens to be a signaling molecule. Well, now you know why your guts feel like they're on fire,

while you feel like an elephant sitting on your chest, and why you might puke. Yeah. Because we just disrupted the signaling molecules. Now, is it dangerous? Unless you were to do something really, really stupid in terms of an IV fusion, not dangerous. It's just not going to be fun. Terrell. My legs felt heavy. It really felt weird.

I didn't really feel bad for my. I just didn't feel the effect of it. I didn't feel good at all. Yeah. I remember you complained about it. I was just like, I didn't feel anything compared to the push patch I feel. It's wild, the difference. So the other aspect of that is, and especially when you go to conferences and when you get into the deep runs of these circles, a common debate is, hey, cells cannot take NAD up directly. So this is a common debate around the precursors, NNM and NR. is cells can't directly take NAD up, so it's useless to just put NAD into your body. Well, first off, that seems actually wrong. There are, I know two really cool studies they did with humans, IV infusion, measure urine, blood, all that, to account for all the NAD possibly coming out of you and then looking at tissue behavior. Long story short, what they found was that this was IV infusion, is that they didn't measure a rise.

in the blood levels of NAD until, I want to say, almost two hours into an IV infusion. Okay. When they do all the math and all the nerd stuff on that, accounting for urine or NAD breakdown products, they can't account for it. So that study shows that there are numerous pathways for direct uptake of NAD into cells that we just don't know about. Okay. We can't tell you what tissue. We can't tell you how we're doing it. But if you just do the math, cells can take it up.

how much? It's a big gray area. But that just says that to say cells can't directly take up NAD is wrong. We can't say more than that, but we can say that some tissues somehow they can't. The second piece is, yes, NAD gets broken down. It gets broken down into a few different fragments. And this is also where it gets interesting because you can do an NAD test, right? The finger prick test. And most of them are for, intracellular NAD, how much NAD is in your cell. You have, I think, one or two that I'm aware of that are extracellular, how much NAD is just kind of floating around in your bloodstream and in the interstitial fluids. And they're related, but they also tell you different things. So when NAD gets broken down into these different fragments, most cells have transport pathways specifically for some of these fragments. So NAD gets broken up into Lego block example again. I get 10 Lego blocks. You break it up into three different pieces. Your cells have a way to bring each of those pieces in. And then it has another set of machinery to reassemble those pieces. Now inside the cell, it may convert it to NNM. It may convert it back to NAD. It depends on the cell, what's going on and other factors. But regardless of which path, you've still increased the bioenergetics of that cell. Okay. And when I'm doing the push patch, it's doing a slow trickle for, what I think was it, eight hours, 12 hours?

12 hours. And so it's releasing a consistent stream of NAD throughout that entire period of time. Yep, steady state. So essentially think of it as a square wave, right? If you're looking at a dose curve picture, if you're doing an IV infusion, it's like a sharp pyramid, like straight up and then straight down, right? With push patch, you know, you think almost like a picture of a table. Like, ramp up is probably around two hours. The exact number is, it's going to depend, because it depends on skin quality, how you're wearing it, hydration, your electrolyte levels.

But ramp up, in most cases, it's going to take about two hours, so you're going to have your ramp up. And now you're just going to stay here for, you're actually going to stay there for longer than 12 hours. The reason it's over at 12 hours is it has a built-in battery because you're using a small electric current to push it. the battery runs out of power at 12 hours and by default it's turned off but you've built up skin loading because during that first two hours the area of skin and the tissue immediately under the skin we're essentially getting super saturated so now when the patch stops you actually that continues to diffuse into the blood you know for how long it maybe one to three hours so push patch explain how it works you just said there's a battery in there so here's what for people aren't familiar with

this. There is a battery in there. You put it on. You pull out a little tag, which I'm assuming creates contact with the battery. What's it doing? How is it pulling through the skin? So the easiest way to explain this is think of a magnet. Right. So if I have a north pole, two magnets, and I take the north pole and the south pole, and I even bring them slightly together, they pull each other together. If I take two north poles, they push each other away. So you can do the same thing with an electric current. So when you start that electric current and, you know, when we say

electricity, you're not sticking your finger in a wall. No, you don't feel anything. You're talking to a watch battery. Okay. So what happens is you start that electric current. One side of the pad is negative. One side of the pad is positive. So it's going like this. There's good. Now, not all molecules.

The vast majority of molecules have a net charge. Right? So I'll give you an example. So people see NAD, and they say, oh, it's positively charged. Because it's NAD plus. Right. The answer is it depends. It depends on pH.

It depends on some other factors. NAD can, in certain conditions, actually, has a net negative charge. So, you know, this is some of the magic behind push patches, actually our formulation, getting into all the crazy formulation chemistry and electrochemistry behind that. But understanding how to control the charge state of the molecule, you want and where to put it so that like the magnets, if you have a molecule that's negatively charged and you put it on the negative side, it's going to be pushed to the positive. And the reason it doesn't go straight down is think about a picture of a sun spot on the sun. You see the big

arc of the sunspot. That's actually the same thing happening. The plasma from the sun is following the electric, the arc of the electric current. So what happens with Ionto, any molecule we'll use them with hyantophrases is it wants to follow that arc. Now what happens is once it kind of gets halfway down that arc, think of a stream just flowing by. It's just going to kind of get swept off and your body's going to go do with it what it needs to do with it. And our push patches, this is like a medical technology, right?

This is also used. This has been research and used for other delivery, for other medicines as well, correct? Yeah, that's actually the cool thing about it is. This isn't like you invented this technology. This is technology. this technology of transdermal. I don't know if that's the right term of application of medicines or molecules.

This is a medical technology. Yeah, a transplant is correct, and everything you said is correct. The cool thing about it is it's all technology. It's been around since actually earlier in the 70s. It goes, I think, all the way back to the, in the 50s, it was ugly. But it goes that far back. Basically, as soon as people were playing with electricity, like what happens we put electricity in your skin. Oh, interesting things happen.

Now, once again, the electrochemistry is complex and the skin is complex. So the challenge with ionopheresis, one of the reasons it really hasn't moved beyond a handful of niche applications in the medical industry or anywhere else is because when you start getting into how do I formulate the molecule, it has to be stable in that electric field. It has to have the right charges. It has to be able to move with it. And it has to do all that while still being useful and stable once it gets into the body. Got it.

So, you know, we can do point A. Electro-aontrophoresis, a fifth grader could do it as a grade school project. But you can use a needle and just put something in the body, right? But there's a lot going on in between those two steps, and it's not simple and it's not easy. Okay. So in other words, this doesn't necessarily work with every mold. It has to be the right one to be able to do this. Correct.

So push patch is working on developing a number of other products, including bioregulators. And a lot of times it isn't fast because you have to dial in all those factors to make sure it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. So in other words, the reason why a lot of people don't notice NAD is because they're not, your body doesn't utilize it in one bolus or even a small dose. It kind of needs this consistent stream. Because like I said, it's the only NAD I've ever felt. So that's actually a critical point. We kind of skipped over before is, you know, with an IV infusion, you suddenly have a massive dose of NAD.

Yep, cells are going to take it up. Yep, it's going to help things. I'll give you an example. For addiction treatment, IV infusions are, I don't know if you're familiar with this. There's a number of clinics who specialize in this. They're so messed up from drug. drug addiction, NAD, IV infusions are like a miracle tool, if used appropriately, just because

they're in that much of a degraded state. But generally speaking, you dump this massive load of NAD into your bloodstream. Kind of like you and me drinking water, maybe you or I could drink a gallon of water in one sitting. We're going to puke if we try to drink too. Body's kind of the same way. It can only use NAD so fast. And then on top of that, as NAD increases, cells have more energy to do more

stuff. Now they'd like to have some more of it. But that one bolus is gone. It was here and gone. Now I'm ramped up. Now I'm ready to do more repair. I'm ready to do more neuron firing and thinking or training, whatever it is. Well, yeah, it's almost like a tease, right? Like, oh, that was like, you know, you stop buying loan me your Ferrari, right? Like, here, Nick, you can drive my Ferrari for an hour. Like, oh my God, that was awesome. Dude, I want to go drive to the Ferrari again. Sorry, I took it home. Okay. Is this only available through, because it's a medical technology, it's only available through prescription? It is. We're working with some people, hopefully we'll be able to

have another conversation with more news about that before too long with you guys. But the device itself, so the actual patch itself, is a registered medical device and requires a prescription. Okay. Okay. Interesting. All right. I want to talk about, GHKCU again because now I'm seeing it being used in other skincare products what's the amount that you guys are using

within Terra because it seems to be much higher than some of the other ones out there yeah so yeah I call it the Amazon effect right because now everybody's yeah I

obviously being the only company the founder and the guy who makes all the products have gotten comments, emails of like, hey, your product looks great and hey, maybe I used your product and I love it. But I can buy something that looks like it's almost the exact same thing, says, makes all the same statements about it

for $15. So why am I going to pay for yours? Well, the answer is peptides in general are freaking expensive. And I'll give you an example, and I'm not attacking any brands here. you can go to the top brands and I you know I've gone to all the big beauty stores with women multiple times essentially you know legit market research walk me through all the hot products

I want to know what to look at which everybody loves so I can look at the label I look at the label and what I do is since you know I make this stuff I know how much all this stuff costs so you know either I'll buy it or I'll take a picture of the the label go back to my laptop and say, you know, if you dig into the research with most of the skincare peptides, you can look up a general range of what an effect of concentration would need to be. Sometimes it can be a big range. Sometimes it's a narrow range. But you can look up the range.

And if you know what it would cost to buy the raw material, you can do a rough calculation. Well, if I say the minimum effective level based on the research is X, right? and I know that the peptide costs why. Well, now I can just calculate the cost of the peptides if I assume that each one is at the minimum effective level. And what you find in most brands, even the big ones, is that they would have to charge two to three times what they are for their product.

Now, this can vary widely. But in a lot of the cosmetic space, a lot of products have a 5x to 10x margin, meaning that if it costs them $1 to make it, they're going to sell it for $5 to $10. $10 for you to get it. So a lot of times I do the math, and some brands, you'll see that their price is maybe twice what the cost of goods are. You can't run a business on that.

So what that tells me right there, because their formulation is proprietary, nobody's going to tell me. But just by doing the numbers on the cost of the peptides and saying, I know minimum effective levels are this, well, I know most of these products. They have it in there. It's a legitimate claim. And I'm not saying it can't not help you, right? It can still do something. But to really hit that minimum effective level for a clear, obvious effect from that peptide and whatever its mechanism is, I'm not going to name potential competitors. I've only found three that even begin to get into that space.

Yeah. This is what we speculated on. Of course. Because it's such an effective peptide that even little. little bits of it, some people might notice some sort of positive change. And so then they'll assume, oh, this must work. It's better than their petroleum-based lotion. Right.

But it's not going to be like your, because like the one you guys have one or two applications you notice, literally one or two, and you can tell a difference. Well, you know, through some of my personal health coaching stuff, I mean, just to be blunt about it, I had a high net worth client. I was doing a health coaching before. And she knew about it in terror. And she's like, hey, like, I don't like Botox. I'm having these issues.

If I told you there was no price, could you make me something that would actually fix this? I was like, let me think about it and let me get back to you. I did a little bit of homework and get back. And I said, yes, but, you know, like the one ounce 30-ml tubes that Interra sells our serum in, that's going to cost you $1,500 per tube. And she was like, okay. Done. I'm like, okay, done.

Made it for her. And she was like, it was actually wild. I would love to get pictures, unfortunately, that's never going to happen. But it just proved real world. And no, that's not economically viable for 99.9% of the population. But, you know, depending on where your limits are, like, to a point, the sky is the limit. Wow. That's cool.

Yeah. So looking forward, what are you most excited about with this space? Is there anything cutting edge that you're excited about? Or I would love just your business side because you've got push patch and Tara and Promethean And which of the three are you most excited about or which has the most potential in your opinion? You know, I am really excited about all three. So I'll answer this in three. Of course.

You wouldn't be doing them if you weren't excited about all three. You know, fortunately, I've gotten to a point in life kind of like you guys where I get to do what I actually love doing. So, you know, from a growth perspective, push patch is wild because NADs. is legit, as you guys know, but the challenge is in the delivery of it so that it produces the greatest effect. And, you know, realistically, over, since the beginning of this year, it seemed like the general public consciousness kind of hit that space of like, oh, NAD isn't some weird optimization thing just for Jim Bros. It's like, oh. And interestingly, where NAD is really seeming to blow up right now is in aesthetics.

Why? You know, for a couple reasons, number one, for just market reasons, you can charge a lot for NAD, whether it's an infusion, an injection, whatever. But, you know, so Push Patch goes to a number of the big aesthetics conferences, and we actually have a massive client base there, because what you'll find, if you use it appropriately, is that when you get into the more invasive aesthetics processes, you know, not just Botox, but, you know, whether it's microthreading or, you know, even. and like the more hardcore RF microsurfacing they do, which takes like the top three layers of skin off. Your recovery, there are cases where it's cut in half. It's cut to one-third by putting on a patch the morning before the procedure. Wow.

Because that mass – so a lot of the aesthetics procedures, for example, like RF radio frequency resurfacing, and you guys absolutely know about this, it's essentially a good injury. You intentionally cause a certain type of damage to a tissue to stimulate it to repair and regrow. That takes a lot of energy to do that. So, hey, if I preload your system with elevated levels of NAD, guess what? Yeah. Now you're doing that way faster.

And just think about it from both the customer side and the business side. So if a woman has done this before and it's like, oh, dude, I'm going to have to go hide for a week after having this done, but then I'm going to look like a million bucks to, I look great in two days. like you're super psyched instead of once a year because I don't want to go hide for a week maybe I'm going to do two or three times here would it make sense then to use an NAD patch

before a very strenuous competition or event you know you can go do a marathon triathlon you're going to go do something crazy would it make sense to preload that way oh 100% like it is a legit performance enhancer without question

so my son plays soccer competitively he was just over in Europe for a year And, you know, it's not banned. NAD is legit, as far as I know, to, you know, college, university, does all that. Maybe that changes one day, but you can see it in his game plays. Like, watching his videos of when he hasn't wore one in a challenging game and when he is, like, you see him starting to get tired two-thirds of the way through the game.

His reaction, his time is slowing down, he's not as fast. So he's wearing a patch, it's, like, just non-stop while throughout. we just find it in our house it's my wife and I if someone if one of her me or my son get sick the other ones patch up like that's like exactly what as soon as one gets sick the other ones are patched up right away and either one keeps me from getting sick or even if I do it feels like it reduces it in half like the time and how hard is. I've used it with lack of sleep you know so like I really bad sleep and then I put it on I'm like I feel like I didn't get bad sleep so two points there I definitely say once again

And remember, for most people, it can take about two hours to ramp up to that steady state. But put one on and go do a workout, two hours after putting one on, you know, for me, realistically, I can go through a workout if I'm wearing one. And I kind of feel like I just did warm up. Like at the end, I'm like, maybe I should do another circuit. Like, I'm like, if I'm not wearing, I'm like, yeah, I'm tired, time to go home. I'm wearing one. I'm like, maybe I should get some more sets in while I'm here. Interesting.

The other side, and this is another common question, is, hey, Nick, in Mind Pump, you guys talked about 15 different things the patch is doing. How can it do that? It sounds like the Shamwow infomercial, right? Very legitimate question. And, you know, this one molecule can't do all these 27 things. And you're right, it doesn't. But what it's doing is it's increasing the available energy for every tissue type in your body, every signaling processing your body. So now every single one of those processes can work better. When people in your house are getting sick and you slap one on and increases your NAD levels, your immune system just became more effective. Yeah. Yeah. If you're having a hard time sleeping, sleep is rest, repair, rebuild, right?

So when you increase the energy, your body is now more effective. So one more step into that, a common challenge with sleep is cortisol, stress, and you get a cascade from that, that disrupts bioenergetics and neurological signaling. Well, by increasing NAD, now your body can be, yeah, no, that's good, but I'm going to kind of ignore that cortisol and do my job anyway. Now I can sleep. Cool. This is great.

It's always good talking to you because you're always so deep on this gosh, dude. It comes with gifts. The NED I know is the most, and I've been using the Promethean, and it's been, I would say, three weeks, and it is subtle, but I think I can tell a difference, both stamina and recovery with those but it's only been a few weeks so I'll report back to you

thank you if I can just kind of recap that because I don't know it bounced around a lot is you know bioregulators think of them as the step in between peptides

and supplements they're going to help if you're already not at a you know whatever your natural steady state baseline is which if you're not

fairly well optimize and train well just the nature of the world we live and you're not going to be they're helping you stay there. They're going to increase resistance to the stress and degradation of life, whether it's joints getting sore, you know, how well is your cardiovascular system working,

you know, sexual health in both men and women, so on and so forth. One thing we didn't touch on, that is an important point, is bioregulators like peptides should be cycled. So, you know, I'm glad you brought that out. Yeah, you'll commonly see, you'll actually see a number of variation. So one common variation is if you have a problem system, do it one or two months, and then do that maybe once every six months. You know, some people, if you're really into bioregulators, and I've done this before, and after going to the series, that's when I noticed a difference myself, I just said, you know what, let's just one month at a time, go through every major organ system in my body. Yeah. And about six months into it,

after being through several organ systems. Go back. It was subtle, but I'm like, you know, my baseline energy and like how tired I get in certain circumstances, like, I can definitely notice a difference. But regardless, you know, you could reasonably go, you know, if somebody has a more significant health challenge on something, you could run for two months straight. But just like receptors that peptides use, you know, the how and the why and the where they attach to histones of DNA, any signal. You know, like a little kid tapping you in the leg,

he dad, he dad, hey dad. The first five times you're like, holy cow, like, yes, what do you need? After the 50th time, you don't feel them tapping your leg anymore. You're like, oh, you needed something. So anything that's working with signaling in your body, you know, even some supplements, right? Like, look at Ashwaganda. You could take Ashwaganda, you know, 1,000 milligrams every day, you know, forever. At a certain point, it can actually start to have an SSRI-like effect of mood dulling.

because you're just hitting those receptors in the brain too hard that it's working with it. That's biology. Every aspect of biology is a cycle. So my personal opinion, and what I kind of use as a mantra, is whatever I'm doing, whether it's peptides, bioregulators, supplements, and you know far better than me, training, right? You want to cycle how you're training because otherwise the muscle will adapt to that and become less responsive. That's right. That's right.

That's right. Awesome. Thank you so much for coming. You guys. It's always a pleasure and I'm honored. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy,

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