Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2679: The 10 BIGGEST Gym Mistakes That are Killing Your Gains & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Episode Date: September 6, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: The 10 BIGGEST Gym Mistakes That are Killing Your Gains. (2:05) The ‘Horny Stack’ is a good time! (28:49) Gym language. (29:51) Teasing your kids. (32:31) Consistency, appreciation, and making an effort in relationships.  (44:45) The most rewarding partnership. (53:02) Muscle Mommy Movement Quiz. (55:11) #ListenerLive question #1 – I know you guys have said stubborn fat is usually just a matter of patience, but is there a point where hormones, metabolism, or other factors might play a bigger role after losing so much weight? (58:06) #ListenerLive question #2 – Any guidance on how to work my way up to weighted dips and pull-ups? (1:14:22) #ListenerLive question #3 – Could exercise during the day cause elevated body temperature at night while sleeping? (1:24:13) #ListenerLive question #4 – I’m struggling at this point in my life now that I have achieved the weight loss that I’ve always went after. How do I proceed with my fitness at this point in time as far as the style I should be focusing on, and the calories I should be at? (1:34:33) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off** Visit Rock Recovery Center for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Ben and Tom know firsthand the struggles of addiction and alcoholism. With years of experience helping thousands of individuals, they offer a free consultation call to discuss your situation. Whether you’re personally battling addiction or have a loved one in need of help, they’re here to guide you toward the support you need. By filling out the form and scheduling your call, you’ll also be entered for a chance to win a free 60-day scholarship at Rock Recovery Center, their premier treatment center in West Palm Beach, Florida. Don’t wait—take the first step today. ** September Special: MAPS Muscle Mommy Movement Quiz! Mind Pump # 2412:  The 5 Worst Fitness Mistakes Damaging Your Overall Health & Longevity Get your free Sample Pack with any “drink mix” purchase! Find your favorite LMNT flavor or share it with a friend. Try LMNT risk-free. If you don’t like it, give it away to a salty friend and we’ll give you your money back, no questions asked! Visit DrinkLMNT.com/MindPump Sal Di Stefano’s Journey in Faith & Fitness – Mind Pump TV Stop Working Out And Start Practicing – Mind Pump Blog Mind Pump # 2452: The Hidden Hormone That is Disrupting Your Sleep With Dr. Stephen Cabral Visit Eight Sleep for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump Listeners! ** Use the code MINDPUMP to get $350 off your very own Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is that you still get 30 days to try it at home and return it if you don’t like it – – Shipping to many countries worldwide. ** Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Thomas Conrad (@realrecoverytalktom) Instagram Ben Bueno (@realrecoverytalkben) Instagram Dr. Rhonda Patrick (@foundmyfitness) Instagram Dr. Stephen Cabral (@stephencabral) Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast in the entire world. And all of history, this is Mind Pump. Right? In today's episode, we had callers call in, and we got to coach them on air.

We got to help them with their fitness, their diet, all of their struggles when it comes to fitness on air. favorite part of the episode. But before that, we do an intro. Today's intro is 55 minutes long. In the intro, we talk about fat loss and muscle gain and strength training and exercise. We also talk about family life and sometimes current events. It's a great time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, just send us your question at live at at mind pumpmedia.com. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is organified. Today, I talked about their horny stack. These are the happy drops. And shillajit gummies. Combine them together and watch what happens. Go try them out. Go to

Organify.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I-I-com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind-pump. Get 20% off. This episode is also brought you by Rock Recovery. This is a rehab facility that we work with. They're really good. Look, if you or a loved one or friend struggles with addiction, go to rock recovery center.com forward slash mind pump. You will get help. You can fill out a form. everybody's going to get some advice and one of you will get a free sponsorship which is worth something like $50,000. So it's rock recovery center.com forward slash mind pump.

Also this month we are doing a quiz for women. It's called the Musclem mommy Movement quiz. So go to musclemommie movement.com forward slash quiz on that. Find out if you're a comeback queen, an efficient powerhouse, a strength novice, or a lifestyle integrator. See which avatar fits you. and get some personalized advice based off of your life.

Again, it's muscle mommy quiz. Sorry, musclemommymovement.com forward slash quiz. All right, here comes a show. All right, you go to the gym, but your progress, well, it's lacking. Nothing's happening. What is going on? There's 10 reasons. These are 10 common reasons why you're not making gains in the gym.

If you make these mistakes, they're crushing you. Here we go. First one's going to be controversial. Of course. Of course. By the way, I got this because I was talking to our customer service team yesterday, and they'll get questions and, you know, they help people through fitness and stuff like that, you know, fitness question and stuff. And it was Margaret. Margaret's like, you need to do an episode on like common gym mistakes that are preventing people from getting results because she's constantly having to repeat herself with the same, which is, again, these are common ones. The ones that we listed are you guys know. That's this whole podcast. That's right. Here's the first one. The first one is you go to, You actually train too hard. Is there such a thing as too hard?

Yes, there is. Of course. Exercise really is a stressor on the body. And the adaptation process, the recovery and then adaptation from that stressor is the, is what makes you more fit, right? So you go to the gym, you work out, it's a stress. Your body heals or recovers. Then your body adapts so that next time, that same stressor is not the same stressor.

It doesn't stress your body as much. Your body is strengthening itself. If the workout is too intense or too hard for you in your body, in the context of your life, when you consider things like diet, age, fitness level, sleep, all that stuff, if it's too hard, there is no room for adaptation. Sometimes there's no room even for recovery. So you might even be going backwards. But oftentimes what happens is people give themselves just enough room for recovery.

They go to the gym. You can tolerate it. There's no progress. It's just they're essentially spinning their tires in the mud. Do you think, since the second one is the opposite of this, do you think that you could describe a specific avatar that this is? Because I, because the other one is the second one is the opposite of this one. I mean, I don't want people to be confused and be like,

okay, well, then I'm one or the other. And so I kind of have a picture of what I think that person looks like. You know, do you have an, could you describe that avatar? Yeah, type A. executive, they tend to accomplish things in life by greeting their teeth and going after it. And so they approach exercise this way. They just, they think the harder they go, the better the results. And if they don't get results, that means they're not going hard enough.

And so this is like a personality for sure. I can see this person. I had clients like this. Do you see them multiple times in the gym or like a really long stretch of time in the gym and just hitting almost everything, like constantly? Yeah. I mean, it's, we had a lot of clients like this, let's be honest. Yeah, this is a very common thing, especially with successful people. I mean, that's just like common thoughts.

Like, I got to basically live in the gym now to get this kind of progress I'm seeking. I mean, the audience is probably tired of hearing me say this, but I just feel like that's, it's so true. And the reason why we can describe that avatar is this, you know, type A executive go getter. Because everywhere else in life, the harder you push, the more you want, work the more you do the more you get out yeah like everything else everything else in life this is how they got through school this is how they got their promotions this is how they make their money yeah every everything else that you do uh that you do with this attitude has served them well uh this is like the one thing that doesn't it's the one thing that no the the harder you grit through things and the more

you grind or push the better the results is not true in this case and so i think it i would agree I would say that this is the key avatar that fits this, this over-training or going too hard. Another one that would probably be the young ambitious kid, you know, who's like, you know, no pain, no gain. Glorifies some of the big guys in June. Yeah, yeah. Or, I mean, I definitely fit that category because even before I would consider myself

this, you know, high-performing type of executive person who's a type A, I would have considered myself the young kid who was chasing soreness because I thought that was an indicator of a good workout, and I still think that there's a good portion of people that probably think that. So those would be kind of like the two main avatars, I think. Yeah, and maybe the last one would be just the person who's just gotten to a really,

they've gotten to a kind of a dark place of self-hate. They hate how they look. They hate what they're punishing themselves. So they go in the gym and just beat the crap at themselves. And at first it feels good because it feels good to beat the crap out of yourself when you hate yourself. Initially, it's a bit cathartic, but that doesn't last for it. I'm going to add one more because I think the last one that I have to add is the sneaky one.

And this is somebody who doesn't feel like or it doesn't look like they're going so hard in the gym or so crazy, but because they have so many other stressors in their life, right? They're either battling some sort of an illness, their malnutrition, they're undernourished, right? They don't. Poor sleep. Yeah, poor sleep. Lots of stress at home. High stress with their personal life, high stress at their work life.

but then they're not even training that crazy in the gym, but it doesn't... It's too hard for them. It's too hard for them. I'm so glad you said that. It's the sneakiest one of all of them. Yeah, I'm so glad you said that. Going too hard can look different for different people. High performing, you know, top athlete, they're too hard.

Looks very different than the woman who's getting poor sleep because she's got two little kids at home and she's also got a job. And so she goes to the gym and takes classes, you know, three days a week and it's just beating her up. The next one's the opposite, which is you don't go hard. enough. This is the person who lacks consistency. They can't string months together of consistency in the gym. Or they're afraid. They're afraid of pushing themselves. And so they go to the gym and the routine looks kind of the same all the time. The same eight pound dumbbells. Same dumbbells. Same

everything. That's right. And they're just not, they're just, they just don't get after it sometimes. And so they go in there. And this is okay. You're active. So it's better than not doing anything. But you need to push yourself a little bit. By the way, both of these combine what the, The story that they tell is that there's a right dose. There's too hard and there's not hard enough. In the middle is the perfect dose for your body. And how do you know you have the perfect dose? You are progressing.

In particular, in performance. Yeah. In performance. If your strength is going up, you can do more reps. You're doing the lifts better. That's the best indicator that you're doing the right amount, just the right amount for your body. If you're not progressing in those ways, regardless of what the scale shows, you're not

getting stronger. You're not seeing performance improvement. you might be going too hard or not going hard enough. Yeah, the client that comes to mind is the clients, I had lots of clients at this that go all the way back to like the video cassette days. So, I mean, I remember having clients. I had several clients like this where I'd ask him about their workouts.

I'm like, oh, yeah, no, 10 years consistently. Yeah, same video. Yeah, it's the same video and, you know, 8 o'clock in the morning. James, yes, yes. And so same weight, same, same, you know, workout for 10 years or like that. And I share that not to knock that person because kudos to that person who has made movement and exercise a part of their life. Still healthy. Very good.

Very good and very much better than not doing it at all. But the point trying to address here is why they're not getting gains, right? Why is what they're not getting gains because they're not progressively overloading their body. They've been running the same routine. But it's very adapted to the whatever thing it is. The same category would be people that love classes. You know, at 24 Fitness, we had all those group X classes, body pump and all this stuff. And then, you know, the same people coming every same day and they look the same.

And it's like, yeah, but their body's well adapted to the signal that that's being sent to that. Again, better than doing nothing and they're moving. And I think there's lots of value to keeping the body active and just moving for overall health. But also real quick recipe for, you know, flatline gains in plateau. Yeah, to add one to that. I remember they had that one section of machines kind of set up like curves. Yeah, and you'd see, yeah, and again, to your point, it's like at least they're there and they're consistently kind of going through these, but it's very much the same exact pin spot.

It's the same type of, like, effort that they're putting into every single machine. And then they just, yeah, they get to a point where they look the same. Yeah, you know this because you'll talk to them and be like, oh, yeah, I do very social. Yeah, I grab the eight pound dumbbells and they do 10 reps, you know, overhead press. Like, oh, how long have you been doing that? Oh, seven years. Yeah. It's the same dumbbells, same reps.

Okay. We're not going to change. Next up, your foundation isn't strength. Strength is the physical pursuit that contributes to all other physical pursuits. Now, of course, if you have very specific performance goals like endurance, stamina, agility, strength is still the foundation, but your workout's going to look different. But for most people, most people listening, they're interested in longevity, health, and fat loss. This is what they're into fat loss, aesthetics.

longevity, the foundation of your routine should rest on strength training because strength training produces most of those results or at least gives you the best bang for your buck by far. So if your goal is like, I want to look better and improve my health and longevity and I'm only going to the gym two or three days a week, the bulk of that should be traditional strength training. It should not be any other form of exercise. Again, unless your goal is like endurance and running and stuff like that, in which case

the routine looks different. But for most people, the foundation should be strength. That'll give you the best results. Well, and this is where to back to kind of the circuit training point where we see that go sideways where people think that they're doing a strength-based type of a workout, but they're cutting their rest period substantially. And so they're definitely like not getting the full benefit of actually strength training. Yeah, I would say the opposite of this are the people that I remember when I was at Orange Theory. And, you know, they got more into the speed at which they could get through.

the workout versus moving up. And I remember I used to have to stop the class and be like, listen, I do not want to look over to my group in the weight area and see people not resting. You've got to rest. You should be trying to rest and go up and wait, not how much faster can I get through or how many more rounds can I do. And so people tend to chase the sweat, the burn, more activity versus slowing down and going, can I get strong?

Can I get stronger in this? And so, yeah, I think a very specific avatar gravitates towards this mode of training. Next up, you're just not following good workout programming or you're just not following a program at all. You go to the gym and you say, oh, I'm going to do a little of this machine. I do a little that machine.

I'm going to work on this. Strength training, if there's a knock on strength training, it's this. It's more complex in terms of programming than other forms of exercise typically. Now, all forms of exercise, there's programming that makes it more or less effective. strength training in particular, right?

So it's very important that you follow some kind of a program. That doesn't have to be complex, doesn't have to be crazy programming. Very basic good strength training programming will outperform you go into the gym and doing exercises for areas you want to work on. So much, it's like night and day. It's like one doesn't do much. The other one, suddenly I'm getting phenomenal results. And a lot of people do this.

A lot of people go to the gym and they'll say, I'm going to do a little bit of this, a little of that. I think I want to work on my arms. I do this exercise over here because I want to work on that part of my legs. It's funny, this is my, this is my mom. My mom finally agreed to let me hire her trainer. Finally, she's very modest.

She doesn't want me spending money on her. It's a typical old world, you know, mother, very loving. And I'm like, Mom, you need a strength train. I do strength training. I'm like, tell me about your strength training. Well, I go to the gym and I do this machine because I want to work on this. And then I do that machine because I want to work on that.

And I'm trying to explain to her workout programming, which, you know, didn't work. So finally what I did is I used. her skill on her she's got this incredible skill of guilt she can like throw it on me make me do things so I bought the training

and I said mom it's gonna be a waste of money if you know so now she's working with a trainer but now she's following programming and the results are just this might be maybe this is the most common in the gym because most people that are going to the gym

have somewhat a base knowledge of exercise or what they should be doing and have probably seen somewhat of results from their efforts of doing that but then are stuck in the same routine i think we're all guilty i mean i think even at the level all of all of us are at are even guilty of gravitating to kind of the same routine or the exercises you like doing and not changing things up and so you got to know that if somebody

with all the experience and knowledge that all of us have in here if we still have a tendency to gravitate that the average gym goers absolutely doing that they're just doing the stuff that they're not going to like be attracted to what you're uncomfortable with and so yeah that's just human nature yeah and a lot of it's like this too like a lot of people can name a few exercises per body part but programming is knowing how to order them where to put them in a routine rep ranges how to use those like programming is all the other stuff it's not just exercises that you know per body part next up is you don't focus on the best lifts the analogy i like to use i'll use an analogy explain this like let's say your goal was to dig a 10 by 10 by 10

hole. So 10 feet deep, 10 fit wide, you know, both width length hole. And you have three options to dig with, a spoon, a shovel, and a backhoe. All of them will dig a hole. One of them does the best job and requires the least amount of effort. That's what it's like with certain exercises. There are certain exercises that if you do them like a deadlift or a squat or an overhead press or a row that are like the backhoe. They will get you there much faster. And then there's lots of other exercises that have value, but they're just not nearly as effective.

And if you skip those best lifts, I mean, you're basically trying to do this on extra hard mode, which if that's what you want, cool, but most people I think they want results for the effort they put in. Yeah, this one's interesting to talk about because I do still think you see this, but I would have said 10, 15 years ago,

this was the number one problem. Yes. 10, 15 years ago, this, like, huge difference. I mean, the fact that I could work in a gym for 10 hours in a day and actually go, like, I recall days in the gym, okay, in like some of the most busiest gyms in the Bay Area, working a 10-hour shift and not see one squat. Yep. Or definitely not a deadlift.

I went months without seeing a squat in the 90s. Yeah, I went months without seeing a deadlift for sure. Oh, yeah. But even the, you've not seen the squat rack be used in an entire 10-hour day is, crazy where what a 180 now oh yeah now you have gyms that most big commercial gyms have got at least four to five squat racks and there is normally a line of people waiting to use after the next one which that what a i mean that's one of the coolest things i think what a win huge win to think that this was probably one of the biggest reasons why people weren't seeing results 10 15 years ago to now

seeing that much i still think there are a lot of people that miss the mark here but we've definitely move the needle in the right direction in regards to more people are figuring this piece out. Totally. Next up, you don't rest long enough in between sets. We kind of mentioned this earlier, but what makes strength training, strength training is the rest periods. In fact, the rest periods make strength training more than the exercises do. This is true, everybody. It's crazy, it's the rest periods that make strength training, build strength, build muscle, boost your metabolism, get those hormone benefits. And it's not because you necessarily need the rest. This is, I wish they called them something else.

Like, we have reps, sets, and rest period. And because it's called rest, I think people think. It should be like gain. You're supercharging. Yeah. Or maybe pause. I don't know what the right word would be, but people hear rest and they think, oh, that's because you need to rest because you can't keep going.

But I can keep going, so I'm not going to rest, therefore making it more effective. No, no. The rest period is so that you can shift or focus on energy systems that contribute to building muscle and strength. If you keep going, you move into a different energy. system of the body where you're building endurance, which if you want that, that's great. But if you're doing strength training for the benefits of strength training, which is the muscle, the sculpt, the boost the metabolism, the rest periods are what make a strength training.

So it's not that you need them because you need to rest. It's you need them to get the results. And the rest periods should be at minimum a minute and a half, at minimum. For many people, two to three minutes, it's what's going to give you best results. By the way, the data on this is clear. I think the reason why that is I think that people think by short, the rest periods and keeping going like that, they're getting the benefits of both. They think that they're getting the best muscle building benefits and endurance benefits.

Very few people, when you tell them that, go like, well, I do want endurance? It's like, yeah, but do you want it more than being able to build muscle? Because that's... And there's a better way to get endurance, by the way. Yeah, and too, and I think people just want to get through it. I just want to get through this. Let's get over with it. That's a common thought.

Well, I'll tell you what. As a trainer, when you train people and you do it right, this is a skill to learn how get your clients to sit down. In fact, I mastered the art of conversation because this is what got my clients to chill out because I would get new clients and we'd do a set. They'd wait 20 seconds. They'd like, all right, let's go again. They'd pick up the weights.

No, no, no, we got to rest. So I'm like, you know, I'm going to distract them with really good questions and conversation so they didn't realize that we're resting for two minutes or three minutes. And they got better results, of course. Master the three minute conversation. That's right. Next up, you don't give yourself grace. Listen, if you plan, if you're goal, if you're goal,

which should be this, if your goal is to be able to do this forever, because that's what you want, right? You want to be able to be consistent for the rest of your life so that you have good health or better health for the rest of your life. You have good mobility for the rest of your life so that you feel great, right? You don't want to get in shape and get out of shape. You want to do this forever. This journey is going to be marred and littered with failures, okay? You are going to have a lot of failures. I don't care the most consistent person is going to have a lot of failures throughout this process. If you don't give yourself, grace, if you hammer yourself with shame and self-hate, you're done. This will be a relationship

that you will eventually hate and you'll stop. You won't be able to do it forever. The only way you could pursue a lifestyle of health and fitness is if you accept the fact that you're going to make mistakes, and when you do, you give yourself grace and you get back on. Yeah, I would say the word that is interchangeable to grace for this one would be patience. Yeah. I think both go hand in hand, And I think it's a similar point. I think a lot of people think that they're going to build muscle and lose body fat a lot faster than they're going to. And so I think – Takes time.

Yes. Think – understanding that – and I do think it goes hand-to-hand with grace. Part of that is the ups and downs of the process. Part of it is it's just a slow process. Like it takes a long time to build five pounds of muscle. It takes a long time to just burn five pounds of body fat. And so if you understand that and simultaneously give yourself grace, because not only does it take a long time and you need to be patient, you're also probably going to make mistakes along the way, which is only going to prolong that process even more. And so understanding both the grace and the patience thing, I think, are so important.

It's so key. Yes, to someone's consistency. Because if you go in with these high expectations of, I'm going to get after it for this amount of time, and you think you're not going to make any mistakes and you think it's going to happen faster, boy, you're going to. going to be set up for disappointment. Yep. And then when you make a mistake, you beat yourself up. The shame spiral starts and you're done. By the way, master trainers are master grace givers.

This is what makes the best trainers, the best trainers, is they're really good at extending that to their client. So the client's honest with them. And then the client feels it and then they give it to themselves. Next up, you don't try different rep ranges, right? So now this doesn't mean you try different ramp ranges in every workout, but you train in a particular rep range for a while and then try a different rep range. Everybody has their favorite rep range.

Okay, I love low reps. I love low reps. I like reps around five or six. You get me above 15 and I just want to leave. I don't like it. It sucks, but I do it because your body adapts to the rep range that you're in. And each rep range has its own value. And each rep range has its own downside.

And so it's important to explore the full breadth of strength training rep ranges, which are between one and 25. It's a wide range, everybody. I think that what fits in here also is, rest periods and tempo. Yeah. I think all three of those are levers that we don't tend to manipulate or pull enough. We all tend to fall into a rep range we like, a rest period we like, a tempo we like.

And you might be changing exercises up here and here, but they're all in this similar way of training. And so I think understanding how all three of those are great levers to manipulate as you train and also a part of programming. And so I think a lot, I think all three of those are included in this point. Next up, you're not prioritizing technique and skill. When people look at exercise, it's a means to an end for them. It's like, this is just to work this area.

This is just to get sore. This is just to sweat. Exercises are a skill. And the better you can perform the skill, the better the results you're going to get and the less chance of injury. But definitely the better the results. Look, if you go to, you. you want to hit a golf ball as far as possible with a club. I think everybody knows there's a technique.

You just swing the golf club as hard as you can. That ball's not going anywhere. If you have good technique, you get a lot of distance. If you want good results, treat your exercises the same way. A properly performed or high-skill-performed exercise like a squat or a deadlift or an overhead press versus a poor technique version of those, the results are so vast. in terms of the difference. Like, one, I get terrible results, and they get hurt.

The other one, it's safe and, oh, my God, my body's progressing incredibly. So treat them like a skill. Don't treat them just, like, as a way to work a body partner. This is one of my favorite tips that we give to clients in general, or especially beginners. I also think this helps manage the first ones where we're talking about going too hard or not hard enough. Like, I think we approach workouts so much as like this punishment or beating our body up when we'd be far better, served if we were to go in and approach it as a skill that we're trying to improve and get better at. I think that naturally will create this kind of progressive overload.

It will give you way more return on the exercises. It's a much better way to approach exercise is, hey, these are all skills, and I want to get really good at these skills versus, oh, how much can I punish myself, or how hard can I make this, or how much can I sweat, how good can I get at these movements will serve you far better than any other way. It's funny how you know, athletes get this, but they don't necessarily understand that you apply that same principle

to working out, which... So funny. Yeah, because, I mean, you're not going to practice at 100% because, yeah, you're going to take yourself out of performing really well for the game. And it's a very similar concept. If you just approach these lifts, especially the ones that move the needle

the most, you can get better at them. And getting better at them, you don't go 100%. You just, you know, really work on all those little nuances and do it with not too much intensity, then eventually you realize, wow, look what I can do to perform at a high magnitude. Totally. And then finally, you skip the body parts that you don't think are fun. You know, the guys skipping leg day.

Every teenage guy right here. Yeah, you know, women who skip, you know, shoulders or arms or chest or whatever. The body, yes, you can avoid body parts and focus on ones you want to bring up. but over time, training the whole body with balance produces the best results for every body part. Okay, training your legs over time will improve your body's ability to develop your arms. The body works this way.

This is very fascinating studies where they'll take a person and they'll immobilize one arm like it's in a cast. And when you do that, you're going to get atrophy, right? Muscles are going to shrink and get it. It's like when you break a limb. It's just what happens. Then they'll have some people exercise the other arm

and they have other people not exercise the other arm. Do you know what happens when the exercise the other arm? The arm that's immobilized atrophies less. The body likes to be in balance. So over time, if all you want is, you know, better looking shoulders, you're better off over time training the rest of your body. So don't skip those body parts. It's interesting that we chase this because it's a pretty established fact that we as humans

are attracted more to symmetry than we are size. Yeah. So it's not like, you know, bigger shoulders, bigger butt, those things. I know those are, these are common things that someone chases, but the eye is, it's more pleasing to see symmetry than it is to see just excessive size. But yet all of us are guilty of probably approaching our training and our workouts with this, I need a bigger chest or I need a bigger butt. I need a bigger whatever. And you're just all focused on that versus going like trying to bounce. Now, I think bodybuilders are the exception here.

I think this is one of the areas that they do a really good job. Because you're judged on that. Yeah, when you get up on stage, the guy with the biggest chest does not always win. If he's not proportioned to his shoulders and his back, he won't win. And so you're judged on symmetry. And so how many times have you lost size on a body part and then being complimented because you're more in balance? What's funny about this, by the way, is that building a butt has become so popular that you're now seeing women only do that.

And they're starting to get the skinny layers. in the butt look, and it's like, that doesn't look right. No, it doesn't look right. Balance and symmetry is everything. With not just aesthetics, by the way. The reason why we find balance and symmetry attractive is because it displays health, mobility, and performance. Like, if you have a developed body part

and others don't support it, that's called injury and poor performance in the real world. So don't skip those body parts. All right, so we're getting messages from people ever since I talked about the Organify Hornie stack, the shill and she. I haven't heard back from... What kind of messages are these?

I'm waiting for Drew and the team over there to... Just they either keep talking about it right off. This is Shillajit and Happy Drops. Happy Drops. People are already reporting that it increases their libido. Shillajit has been shown to do this with fertility and stuff, especially for men. You combine the two and, you know, take them both consistently for a couple weeks and watch what happens. Everybody.

Watch all them hips talk. It's a good time. And they're gummies, which is even more fun. It's a lot. I know. I love it. I love calling them stuff. I don't get their approval.

I know. That's why I'm waiting for that. We're just rebranding everything. There's only been a couple of these commercials that are ran. It's typically after a few of them were, I'll hear back from that side. They'll either love it or hate it. I mean, the Christmas blend, they were happy about that was the last stack that you talked about. I think they liked.

And so so far it's been positive. But the horny stacks are a little more on the edgy side. It's all right. It's true. That's what it is. See how they receive it. All right. I got to talk about something hilarious.

So I'm having this the best time with my. daughter because she's getting into like lifting and it's so fun because she's still my daughter so I'm still dad which means I'm not cool and she's a still teenager still a teenager which means she's going to you know she knows better yeah but my daughter's she's she's wonderful she's so disciplined she's got all these great characteristics anyway she's getting into lifting and so we're as we're talking she's using language that I'm just so shocked that a 15 year old girl is using things like gains you know things like she said progressive overload progressive overload bulk cut

and I'm like what is going on here I'm like is this is it because TikTok dude you know what so I look this up so there's a lot of lingo which I think we we kind of don't realize now has made it mainstream that's gym language for example bro is kind of gym language which now everybody says in fact I was at

where was it bro science for sure I was moving my oldest to college. And we were in an elevator. So funny. And the elevator was getting full with kids, right? And there was like a bunch of girls in there. And as it was getting full, you know, it kept stopping at every floor because all these kids were moving in. It was the first day. And the kids were saying, we're all joking. Like, all right, don't let anybody else in. That's it. If the next one comes up, tell them we don't fit because we're all packed like sardines. And of course, when it opens, kids squeeze themselves in. And the girls, they would look at each

other and go, bro, bro. And I'm like, what are you saying? You're a girl. So funny. So there's that. Gaines has made it mainstream. Yeah. Swole. Yeah. Swole. This is all stuff we said in the 90s that now everybody understands. Now, are we even seeing that to people that make, don't train to?

It's because I think lifting has gone more mainstream. Yeah. And it's kind of like common. Like PR is another one. Because I've even, I like, to your point about bro, I've heard, I've heard young girls talk to each other like that. Say, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I have nieces that I've heard say stuff like that. So that's made away. And they're not like big workout people. No. So that's interesting. Bulk and cut. Those are, those are,

I've gone mainstream. I said PR beast mode. That's a thing. I think it's so great. Yeah. It's so funny that this gym like culture and lingo is kind of making it out. Oh, it's way better than skibbiddy. Oh, God.

I hate that. What was that? I know, have you tried looking up? Yeah, dude. And there's some video attached to it. It was just like really wild.

Well, not just that, but like, have you tried looking up just their, their, their lingo in particular? Of course. Yeah. I do that just to embarrass them.

My entire goal is to, yeah, pick them up and say those kinds of words for their friends. Do you guys, you guys use, like, urban dictionary or what? How do you stay on top of what the kids are saying to you? Or do you just straight up on them? There's actually videos where there's, like, parents who are walking through a tutorial, and it's so funny. I've seen some funny ones where a dad, there's a guy follow. Yeah, I've seen this one. Yeah, there's a dad that has, like, two daughters.

And he says it and watches their faces. Yeah, yeah. And he puts him in, like, a whole, but he does it like in a whole, you know what I'm saying? he like uses all yeah yeah yeah when he's like communicating to them in front of their friends it is it is your job do you know what you're saying yeah listen i'm gonna say this right now like this is like your job as a dad is to tease your teenage kids and embarrass them it's the best thing yeah it is the most amazing thing you know it's funny you say i love it i have to i have to challenge that just because of the the recent book that i read and it was in fact we and we just had a moment

we just had a moment yesterday where this happened so crazy so we i we have we Katrina and I just finished that book. And I told you that one of the main tips from that was leave sarcasm at the door. And Katrina, I was upstairs. It was yesterday. This just happened. And I come downstairs and she like, Max was in the living room. She like pulled me in the pantry real quick.

She's like, oh my God, he just had a meltdown. I'm like, really? What happened? And then she's telling me what happened. And I let her finish and go, you know what you did right there, don't you? And she's like, what? She goes, I was just playing with those. You were being sarcastic.

Oh. And I said, you were just having fun and teasing him, but his brain doesn't understand that. And so what she did was he had like his treats and she was trying, or like his snacks or whatever. And she was like, no, I want you to eat this or finish this first. And then she pretended to like eat them. And he just like had a complete meltdown. And then she had to be like, Max, you have to be able share with me. And I'm like, what you did was you were playing with him and you were being sarcastic.

I said, but he doesn't, his brain doesn't. And we have to understand that. And she's like, oh my God, you're so right. She's like, we just, now, we just talked about that. So I don't do it to my younger kids. Yeah, not the younger ones for sure. But when I do it to my daughter, I don't push it. I do it because she thinks it's funny too.

I mean, I think it's interesting because I know I have, I mean, look at Katrina and I both are, I think we're all kind of similar, sarcastic people. And I just never thought of that as like a negative thing. But when you understand the way the brain develops as a kid and that they don't get that, humor yet and then for i made that mistake with my with my four and a half year old where he did something and i laugh because it was funny but he took it personal yeah yeah yeah yeah it's just with the younger ones it is it's dicey like that but uh yeah but then i mean they're gonna get it at school when they get older at their friends yeah and so it's like the ribbing it's you know

it's you want to get home you want to have a safe place so i understand the argument for that as well uh so yeah i've been trying to check myself with that i i'm conscious of that because it does affect them yeah yeah well it's and and to your point and he talks about this in the book is that um you know with their friends and stuff that's where they'll learn that it's like that you let them with their with your parent you're a different you are different to them and so their brain doesn't process it the same as their friends so even though they're feeling it they're doing it they're learning it with their friends this is because we even see those in max max says all these funny things and they tease each other like all the batman characters in

lego and it's totally funny and playful if katrina and I try and do it, it doesn't land the same way. I'll give you a win and a fail that I did with my with my daughter. So here I'll give you a win, right? Dropping her off at school and then yelling out the window, I love you, you know, real loud. And she kind of smiles and giggle, but she's embarrassed, right? That's okay. That's a good example, though, of being playful and fun in a loving way. You're telling her, I love you. Like you're not, no, I'm not teasing her. And then I'll do the stuff in front of her friends while I'll use the lingo. And then her friends laugh. And then she's like, dad, you know, that's kind of fun. But then I had a fail a while ago where,

If we pull up to school to drop her off, she tells me to turn the music down always. It doesn't matter what I'm playing, by the way. She just wants the music down. Yeah. So one time we pulled up, and as soon as she opened the door, I blasted, what's it called, Marietache music. I don't listen to Marietta music. She got really mad.

Yeah. She got really mad because I actually did a burst her. So that was a little too far. So it's definitely, I think there's. Yeah. To me, it's just an interesting one for me because I know it's, I mean, I'll always love learning stuff or I would have never. I actually would have thought of that as a positive thing in the past.

Like I would have, like, my kidneys have some thick skin, but then it was a neuropsychology book that I'm reading. And so, like, when you understand the, the neurodevelopment of their brain and where they're currently at, and then you understand how it's processing, and you go, oh, shit, okay, maybe that's not the best thing for me to do. You could tease your kid, and it becomes an insecurity. 100%.

It's actually most likely will become that. And you won't know it because they're not going to show that to you, but inside they're going to hold it that way. And so I'm like, and I mean, I share that story with you. Like, how crazy is that that, like, one of the most impressionable things ever was my uncle teasing me about my hair when I was like, what, seven? It was just, it was cute, but to you. Yeah, no, it was like I was mortified.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, I'm seven or eight or I don't remember how old I was really young. And, you know, he teasing me about that. And like, that's like forever stuck with me. It's like, that's wild that's imprinted. But it's where my wife will do it where, like, my little one, my two and a half. gone with that now. Too late.

Cool story. We'll be in therapy for that. Yeah, exactly. My kids would tease me every day. And it's just like our love language. So my wife would do this with my two and a half year old where she'll say something, but she says it in like a cute way. She'll mispronounce it. And then she'll repeat it back to her because it's cute.

Yeah. And I'm like, don't do that because she's going to get insecure about how she's saying things. Yeah. I also think that your guys as kids now are old enough that you could actually talk about that. Yeah. So you could be like, hey, does that? Does that bother you when I rib you like that? And then let them be like, yeah or no.

Like, no, Dad, I love it. You know what I'm saying? A lot of funny little anecdotes that, though, too. Because, like, I've been really trying to kind of peer in a little bit more to their world. And, like, was playing video games with Everett. Like, we got the new Zelda and we're just, like, playing it together. And I, like, suck. I really suck at video games.

And I admittedly, I'm like, okay, pal, I'll play. But, you know, like, don't give me to get your grief, you know? Like, because I've gotten pissed off before, because I'm, like, concentrating. I don't, I'm competitive, you know? You're too competitive. Yeah, and I'm just, like, trying to, like, figure out always, and there's so many buttons, like, now. And, like, I have to go through and not, I'm like, where's my sword? And I have to go, like, hit Z1 and then, like, scroll, scroll, scroll, and then get this.

And they're like, dad, what are you doing? Oh, oh, they get so frustrated with me. And I'm just like, and it's like the one thing I'm like, I suck out with this. So they're just, like, piling on. piling on, piling on. And I'm like, do you throw the controller walk out? Yeah, I don't want to play because you do this.

Like shut them up, you know. But I'm like, well, this is like poetic justice, right? Like for me, and it's feedback for me, like if I feel like that. So,

but they don't, they don't know how to tease. We're working through that with like the teasing part of making it more fun and like, you know, lighthearted. But so I'm cognizant of that. When I'm teasing them and then they're teasing me.

So we're kind of working through that. But they, they find some good. funny spots where they like hit me and I'm like oh yes you got me but you know it is it's like I found myself like almost like getting like super well you're I mean you were a hardcore athlete and when you play when you're in any competitive environment like that especially young men because I didn't play a lot of sports but I was in competitive environments either in sales or you know running clubs stuff like that the love language between young men is to hammer each other

it is literally I mean I'm this is true I've told my wife this many times it's an extreme degree I've been in the most extreme version of that listen well you've uh you've theorized on the evolutionary purpose of that right I mean you're testing them yeah it's like who's can you handle it yeah yeah that's I mean I don't know how if that's been proven to be true or not but it seems pretty logical well the guy in the group who's too sensitive to it is is always the guy everybody's like he's the target yeah like don't like that guy's not gonna he can't hang or whatever I mean because this is what guys do I told my wife I said, one of the big things, because you ever hear the nicknames girls give each other? They're so cute and great and sweet.

The nicknames guys give each other? Derogatory, always. Oh, they're a real problem. Yeah, yeah. Like, if you're overweight, you're going to have a nickname based on being over. If you're short, your nickname's going to be about being married. His rat face, you know what I'm saying, rat face. Thanks, dude.

Yeah. Yeah. Didn't you have a buddy who lost the testicle? Yeah, yeah, one ball pat. Yeah. Forever. No, the men are all, the guys will always do, like, derogatory. It is true.

But, I mean, that makes sense to me that, you know, if you go to war, especially back of the days when very young men would go to war, right? Very, very young. You want to know that these guys, yeah, they're not going to fold when they get teased because they're going to have a lot more pressure than that when we go to war together. And so it makes sense that that's kind of built in our DNA to organically kind of test each other that way to make sure. And so, yeah.

I find it endearing. I mean, you guys know that. we're off air. We just, we crush each other. And it's like, it is hilarious. I mean, you guys will hammer me about stuff that just, and I just think it's the funniest thing. And it's love it. Well, I think that we all have that, that similar thick skin like that. And I think that that's something that, uh, but again, I'm, I try and remember like, I definitely got that from my friends. Yeah. Right. It wasn't like a thing. No, you get it from your mom or dad. I didn't get it from my parents at all. Yeah, yeah. I got it from my friends. I got it. My parents called me beak face.

Oh my God. That would crush me. Seriously, I mean, it's pretty, it was pretty easy for me after I read that, had that big hot moment to go like, oh, my God, that makes so much sense that, like, that's definitely not who I want to hear that from, you know what I'm saying? You're going to, like, yeah, I can handle it from my friends all day long, but your, your parent or your uncle or someone like that, like it's going to land ever. But again, back to my point, I think you guys have old enough kids now, which I think is cool that you could, you could talk it out too.

Yeah. You'd be like, hey, does that bother you when I, because I don't want to, you know what I'm saying? No, no, Dad, it's cool. You know, it's like, okay, cool. Then I feel like we can have that fun there. Versus, like, you know, my son's so young. It's like, it either lands or it doesn't land, and it's most likely not going to land.

Yeah, I went through that, and I stopped teasing them about their hair because, you know, the, you know, even when you talked, what were you saying about it? I was like, does this bother you guys? They probably said yes. And they were like, yeah, stop. Yeah, you're like, oh, shit. What were you saying about their hair, too?

I kept calling broccoli hair, like, screech. Like, you know, anything I could. could come up with. Because it just bothers me, you know, but it's like, what do I care? That's their style.

It's so, teenagers crack me up because they, they try to be different so hard, but they actually are the same. I want to be rebel, but you all look the same. Nobody's rebelling. You all have the same haircut.

You all dress the same. It was like mullet, then it's like broccoli hair. I'm like, I'm really like curious what's next, dude, because I hope it's like shaved head or something. I mean, we could probably go back to our, because a lot of stuff is being repeated right now.

There's a lot of trends. There was a kid in my daughter knows who did. I forgot what she called it. I'm so mad. But he shaved everything except for the back. There's a term for it. No, it wasn't a rat tail. It was like a flat, like, and there's a name for it.

I'm so mad I can't remember what it was. She's like, oh, this guy totally gave himself a something. And I'm like, what's that? She's like, you shave everything except you leave the back. I'm like, that's such a guy thing. What to do? You know. Who thinks that looks good.

I mean, we probably have. had so I'm sure you look back. Remember when it was popular to do the side steps in the side of the hair and do some cool, I mean, there's some stuff like that. You have been little ice sort of bricks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we've definitely done some things that are probably. Although I did it to Max. I did it max when he was like three. I cut his hair like that. So yeah, yeah. But again, I think a lot of the stuff is making its way back that it's kind of cool to do some of those stuff. So I'm sure we could probably look back at some dumb stuff we did that hasn't been done yet. And you could probably predict. that that's coming around the corner. I want to give a shout out to my parents. Today is their 48th wedding anniversary. No way. Yes.

You know, one of my favorite things when I was a trainer that I used to love, I used to love training people who had been married a long time. And then watching my parents, it's such a wonderful, if you could be around a couple that have been married for a long time, that have a, you know, good relationship, it's so great to be around them because you realize, like, how much, you become so much wiser and tolerant of, each other. Like my parents, when I was younger, they would get in some blowouts about certain things. Now they can tease each other about stuff that used to cause issues. And it's like,

it's so, because they've been together for so long. Yeah, I mean, you, you almost truly become one. I know that's the point of marriage and unity is like that, but you got to understand that just because you walked down an aisle yesterday and you were individuals the next day, you're not going to be completely one. It's like it's a process of getting there. I think You guys start to notice that in your own, uh, significant other. Oh, or taking on some of your characteristics, totally. Yeah, when I, I mean, I mean, it's been, Katrina and I have been there a long time now, well, long, way longer than any other relationship I've ever been in.

And like the, the, the joke right now in our house, this has been happening a few times where Katrina's like talking to me. And she's like skipping so many important details for me to even understand. And then she stops and she's like, you always read my mind. Why can't you? And I'm like, do you, I said, did you just hear how you just started talking right there? I'm like, I'll make her go back and be like, like, she's like jump cutting. Oh, total jump cutting.

It's like crazy. I'm like, just repeat out loud and then pretend I'm anybody else trying to figure that out. And she's like, but you always know, I'm like, okay, I'm good. I'm like, we're good. You know what I'm saying? We're that much one, but I'm not that good. I think the best, the best thing is ESP. Yeah, because she'll go in, she'll be talking and she's like, you know, that one thing.

And then she'll go to the next thing. And I'm like, I don't even know what the one thing was that. she's all the other thing. She's like, you know, the other day when so-and-so, and like, so-and-so, the one thing, I'm like, Katrina, you literally know you didn't give me any information right there, and I'm supposed to know what you are trying to tell me. My wife does that so, I don't understand this. Maybe one day, if we're together for 48 years, like my parents don't understand her. She'll talk while her mouth is full, but she won't talk. She'll, she'll, do that. And I'm like, mumble. No, not mumble. She does this voice inflection. Like, she'll drink

water and she'll, and I'm like, do you, how do you think I know? It's obvious what I'm saying. No, it's not. I have no idea what you're saying when you do that. So I'm hoping like 40 years, you know, you'll be able to. She'll be like, oh, yeah, I know. It's funny because it keeps like coming back to me because we're trying to really train the boys to be better about manners and all that, you know, and like sitting in for dinner and then like, you know, she's correcting them. And then I'm like, kind of sitting back and then I'll start like talking with mouthful of food and like shitful. And I'm like, oh, me. He's like, yeah, you know, that's an area that I want to get better at that we, it surprises me how much effort I find that for us, considering I did come from, as dysfunctional as my house was, we did have family dinners every night.

That was a staple thing, no matter how messed up we were, how crazy it was, just a half hour before. It's got to be rock solid. We had dinners every night together. And I actually find that very difficult for me to be consistent with that right now, which is a shame because my son is so young. So, how do you guys do it then? You just eat your own and then you feed him? Yeah. So a lot of times, like, you know, his feeding schedules a little bit sooner than us.

And so a lot of times Katrina will have him eat and then we'll eventually eat. And then even when we eat, it's like one of us is on the counter, one's at the table or the timing is off a little bit. And so I find that, I mean, we're making a conscious effort. And so at least a couple times a night, I mean, a couple times a week, we will make sure that we time it all and put a lot of effort into it. But that's just it is it. I realize it actually takes effort. Total effort. To make that happen with something that I felt was so routine for me. Because you would become, because it was so routine, I just assume that, oh, this will be very routine for me and my family.

Oh, it's planning. But it quickly has gotten away from me many times. And I think probably DoorDash has a lot to play with that, too. You know, sometimes you're just like, oh, I'm really hungry right now. Oh, door dash that right now. And it's like, you're not all saying, oh, dinner's at six. And we prepare it the hour before. And that's when we'll all eat.

It's like, oh, Max is hungry right now. Okay, let him eat right now. Well, then you and I can door dash this later. And so I find that happens a lot more than I would like it to. And I know how valuable dinner times are at night. And so we, and the way why I bring this up that it's been a challenge is I even, my son went oh family dinner night he'll do that like where we're like yeah it's family dinner night like and that's her and i look at each other like boy we need to definitely be way more

consistent with this if he's groaning as if it's out of the normal right it needs to become more the normal and and then sure maybe once in a while we have a get to watch a movie while we're eating or do something special pizza night on Friday like that becomes more of the anomaly and the consistency is around that but the fact that my son is saying something about sitting it means it's not as consistent. Yeah, yeah. So I didn't realize how, how challenging that would be for me. No, considering where I came from. God bless my wife. She'll, she'll ask me like, what time are you home today? And then let me know ahead of time. And she'll really try to time it so that when I walk in the door, dinner is on the table or about to be put on the table. Everything's timed. And we wait until everybody sits down before we eat. And I love it because when I was a kid, my dad worked a lot. But we always, always, always, always. I mean, doesn't it make you kind of appreciate that they did do that consistently? The effort that goes into it.

Considering how busy he was, how busy your mom, like, to make sure that was organized. Well, you know, how hard it is to time, like, two or three courses to be warm at the same time? I've tried doing it. I'm like, I'm barbecuing. We're having meat. That's it. But my wife will have, like, three different things in time it, which is skill. Yeah.

Have you guys always been consistent with it, Justin? Yeah. Yeah, that's one thing. That's a stable. And to your point, like, there's the other things. things to like church and like these other things that I was like oh my god I was just like so consistent I was like yeah you know like but for some reason dinner has always been like this is this is where I catch up with everybody and so I just I personally had always just like been

adamant about trying to make sure that everybody because to Courtney I know her love like it was just really about cooking and and you know even going further than that to where it's like through her day she's also in the garden and she's bringing things in that and it's such like a that's like such a disrespect thing for me to not like honor that sure so um so i'm trying really hard to kind of establish another level with that though with the kids because they don't you know they were kind of like taking advantage of it and not appreciating it yeah they wouldn't eat like certain dishes and all this kind of stuff given like a hard time but so it's it's been a process but yeah it's been, that's something that I've always kind of, you know, appreciated because we can talk

and communicate and get a lot out of the kids that way. We don't get their attention like that. Yeah. Yeah. There's times where I find Katrina's really good about it sometimes when she's preparing the meal and to integrate Max into chopping something up or doing with her. And I would just, I would love for that to be an every night thing. It's just, it's been work. It's been way more effort than I thought there would be. It takes effort and planning. period into story. And when you're a kid, you don't realize it because mom makes it happen or whoever makes it happen. But it takes schedule.

Yeah. And I do. I mean, it's an opportunity for me to give kudos to my mom for being able to do that. I know I've talked a lot of a lot of the bad stuff or what about that, but that was something that we were really consistent with that. Looking now as a dad, six years later, I go like, oh, wow, that, you know, that's not like it just happens magically. Like, that was a serious effort put forth to do that. and I would like more of that and I just have to be better about being consistent

with that. I'm going to change directions here because we have Tom and Ben from Rock Recovery Center and I just got to say I love all of our partners. We don't work with anybody that we don't appreciate either their products or who the people are or both. But this has been one of the more rewarding partnerships. Tom and I are in regular communication

and anytime he has somebody come through through mind pump that is either for them or a loved one that needs help with addiction. He always asked them permission, but then I'll get messages from him and he'll say like, oh, you know, Susan came in and her son needs help and would you mind recording a video for me, just letting her know that you appreciate it. And so that's what I'll do. I'll send a video. And it's so rewarding to just hear about these people because, you know, I don't have

personal, you don't have any personal experiences with it, but there are people that I know that are relatively close to me who've dealt with addiction. And that is so hard. So to hear this process and to be able to feel like I can somehow contribute to the success is like, and it's just so rewarding. So I'm excited to have them on the show later on. Yeah, I know, me too. I remember when we first were taught, I mean, I was working with the two of them last year.

And it didn't even cross my mind. And he brought it up. He's like, hey, what do you think about us doing some sort of a partnership? And I thought, I haven't really thought of something like that. I said, but what you guys are doing, I know the guys are so. behind it. And so I said, for me, I would just hope that it would make sense for you guys business-wise, and then it would help you enough that it makes sense for you guys to do that with us. And so that was really the only hesitancy that I had when we first were meeting with

them because it's not like a typical, it's not like a normal business. It's not like a product that everybody loves and then they go buy. It's like, okay, I'm sure we have a lot of people that have family or friends that are probably battling with it. And I think you guys are an incredible resource, and so if they can get service and help from you guys and it makes sense, then I would love to do it. And it's probably become one of the more rewarding, if not the most rewarding. Oh, we get those partnerships. I'm changing. We get videos from people who are going through it who found them through us. It's like I tear up every single time. I want to mention something new that we're doing, which I think is awesome. We have this quiz. So it's a, it's called

the muscle mommy movement quiz. And you can go on and find out what avatar you probably fit in and then you'll get some tailored advice to you. And I think this is super cool. Our new advertising company

put this together. It's got integrity behind it because a lot of times these quizzes are, they're ridiculous, you know. But this one's great. And the avatars are the comeback queen, the efficient powerhouse,

the strength novice, or the lifestyle integrator. Yeah. So what you do is you go, muscle mommy, movement.com forward slash quiz and you you answer the questions and see where you fall and then there's some advice that you get based off of which avatar best fits you uh in terms of you know diet nutrition you know uh exercise and that kind of stuff one of my favorite one of my favorite parts

about the new marketing team is that a huge focus of theirs is adding more value nurturing more and servicing our people better than we have before where previously so much of our marketing team was focused on the acquisition side and just how fast can we add more people, more volume, more volume. And I really felt like that got away from us. I mean, we built this on just, you know,

the small group of people that we were servicing and helping so much and it grew organically like that. And admittedly, as it grew to the size it did, some of that stuff got away from us. And I can tell by the way they're structuring and putting things out, the focus is way more on getting. And this is just, yeah, this is just another example of that.

It's like, hey, even within the muscle mommy community, there's a lot of different people that would say they fit in that category. In fact, a lot of people that love the muscle mommy probably aren't even mommies, you know, but they, that look that people. So, okay, how can we serve those two, those people that are not even technically a mommy, but they like that way of training. And so that's really where this quiz is to help them like, okay, this group of women that are more like this, more like that.

Yet they're all, they all have a similar goal, but different enough that the messaging is going to be different for them. I just think that that's a super fun testament to them. We should take the test, even though we're not muscle warming. I'd like to see where we all fall in. Maybe we'll bring that up on the next episode. Element is an electrolyte powder. You add to your water that tastes amazing.

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What on, Dennis? What's up, man? Hey, hey, guys. How are you all? Good, good. All right. How can we help you? Hey, I got a, well, first of all, just thank y'all for all y'all do. I know y'all hear that probably acknowledge them, but from the bottom of my heart,

it's helped me tremendously with this journey that I've been going through, and I know countless others. I hear it every day with listening to y'all. I haven't been a listener of y'all's for probably more than a year, but I've kind of caught up because I listen to you all the time. So I'm deep into your archives of all your stuff. Appreciate it. Thank you, Dennis.

so I'm just going to read what I got here a little bit about my background about a year ago I was about 373 pounds when I wrote this email I was 245 my email says 235 but I was actually 245 I smoked for 15 years and I would drink every night and I was always giving a reason of why to relax to go to sleep it doesn't matter I did that seven days a week ate like crap and then woke up about a year ago and said I got to do something this is getting out of hand I've always been big into weight lifting always been big into the body

building seeing that that mentality I will eat rice and tuna fish whenever I need to like that's where my brain is but I'm also that way when it goes to drinking and smoking and I'm like I obsess about other things but any case I work out five days a week for about an hour

I get about 15,000 steps a day. I just now started wearing a weighted vest to kind of, because I'm dropping weight, so I wanted to add more weight so that my calories would kind of stay the same burnt. I'm sure y'all will have something to say about that. I eat about 3,000 calories a day, 3,100 calories a day. I just had my Dexascan done about three weeks ago. I can get into that if y'all need me to. I take creatine, HMB, B-CAAs after working out with a little bit of protein powder. I eat four mills pretty much from nine to five is my meals are about two to two and a half hours spaced out with all my protein.

I usually do about a cup of rice or a sweet potato or something as my carbs and then a cup of veggies. I do not eat fruit just so you are or no. That's really about it. My main question, sorry, to be so long-winded, is I've trained really hard for the last year, and I'm not saying that I haven't made progress. I have obviously made progress, but I'm seeing, I'm noticing my chest on my lower is, it's retaining fat. I can't get rid of it. I've tried every exercise known to man.

I've done what I thought that I needed to do, that in my lower stomach, and I cannot get rid of this. I would assume it's just stubborn fat. And so I don't want to be concerned if y'all just say, hey, man, it's just going to take time and you just got to keep working at it and it'll eventually come off then I'm okay with that but I don't want to be doing something wrong and not causing that if that makes sense yeah no you're not causing that to happen it is stubborn body fat I think you're doing way more than you need to but if you love it I think you're doing okay I can tell you have that bodybuilding background can you tell me a little bit about that history sure yeah yeah

I mean, like, I started lifting weights probably 18, 17, 18 years old, big into weights. And I got into actual bodybuilding early 20s. I didn't compete. It was just, it was honestly just a mindset. It was, you know, lift us up as you could, eating very strict, all the vitamins. Like, I had a case of vitamins that I used to take that was an everyday thing. I no longer do that, but that's where my background team and I just kept researching. I researched bodybuilders all the time just because they're the most.

most in shape people on the planet. So, I mean, if you're not listening to them, I'm not saying to be like them to get to 6% and 4% body fat, but they just, they had it down, but it's hard to do. And so I did that for years and then I had, and then life hit me upside the head. I was 30s. I partied. Then I, then I would go back into it and train and I would get down to, you know, an in shape feature.

And then I know there's something in my life would happen. And it's been a roller coaster, which I've heard you talk about in the podcast. That's probably one of the worst things. do is to go in and out of gaining weight, losing weight, gaining weight, losing weight. And so this is like my final straw. I'm not, this is it. So I'm, I will maintain something along these lines for, from here till I'm not on this earth anymore.

What makes you convince that this is different? My daughter, number one, I, I have, I have a daughter that she doesn't live with me, but I, I know, I just, it hit me one day a year ago that I got to be here for her. Instead of being selfish for myself and wanting to drink and smoke and do all the stuff I used to do, I really, I really wanted to focus on having and maintaining a life for her. And the older I get, the more I know that my health is more important for her and not just for me. So I guess not being selfish was my biggest thing. I just said, I got to stop. It's a powerful motivator.

This is the longest I've ever been consecutively on this strict of a, like, I don't, when I say I don't cheat, I don't cheat. Now, I'm not against it. I'm not against if my wife wants to go and grab a burger or something. I'm not going to say no, but I will take the buns off and I'll eat. Like, that's just what I do. I am strict, strict. Well, what you said was, I mean, it's a very powerful motivators, nothing like being a father. But do you mind if I dig a little deeper?

Sure, absolutely. All right. Part of my brevity, because I hear a lot of me and you, okay? So I know you said it's for your health and longevity. Why are you worried about stubborn body fat on your pecks and your lower abs then? Just because I, yeah, that's true, man. That's a good question. I don't know.

Because I guess I feel like I'm working so hard and I want to look a certain way. In my brain, I want to look a certain way. That's right. That's where my head is. I'm going to help you with this. Be careful with that. I'm going to help you with this, Dennis, because your true motivation, I know, there's a part of you that is doing it for your daughter, but there's a very strong part of you

that's actually stronger that is more focused on how you look. It's more focused on for you and all that. And I get it because that happens to me all the time. And here's my warning to you, Dennis. If you don't change that, I promise you you'll fall out again. I promise you. I would bet everything. I'd bet my whole company on it that should go back to the old extreme where you get back into drinking, smoking, eating, or whatever. So if you don't, if that part right there is what you're going to have to tackle and wrestle with, otherwise, it's going to be on and off again. Especially when you're pushing and doing it as hard and as strict as you are, because

you said it already. It's like, man, I'm putting all the work in. I'm dialed. I'm disciplined. And I ain't seeing these results, like, because you're still tied to the physical results from everything you're doing right now, you feel that's where people break because they go, luck, man, I've been killing it.

I'm doing everything perfect. I'm not getting the look I want. Why am I even wasting my time doing this? And that's what causes the off and on right there versus going, man, I'm, I'm just a dude that works out five days a week. I'm healthier. I'm stronger than I've ever been. I mean, I'm added me years back to my life.

By the way, I'm taking care of myself and being actually very proud of where you came from and where you're at and how consistent you've been. And it's more become just a lifestyle that you live. And yeah, you know what? Over time, it is going to just, you will get. better and the body fat will continue to get, especially if you're that dial. But if you connect your, how dialed and how hard you're making an effort towards this, towards a way you look, that's going to let you down. And it's crazy is even when it gives you results, it'll still let

you down. Because you'll just move the goalpost and you'll keep moving the goalpost versus, man, you're, you're doing great. And I think that was Sal's first, you know, really questioning like, you're doing a lot. Like, you're training a lot. You're moving a lot. You're putting a lot of effort. I mean, you're treating this like a bodybuilder with your routine, your diet. I mean, I see your email and you're breaking it down. I see, you know, peptide stack, testosterone. You're doing it like a bodybuilder is, which, you know, for the purposes of looking a particular way. And I'm just going to add to this, Dennis, you will never be satisfied. It will never give you what you're looking for. And eventually, you'll bounce in the other direction. Now, here's the second thing I'm

to tell you that I think this is going to sell you on what I'm saying. If you do this for the right reasons, you'll actually get the look that you want. But here's the kicker. You can't care about the way you look. So you got to stop caring about that and really just refocus on the real, the most important reasons in placing that first, which is health, longevity, mobility. And it'll start to direct you in actually a more appropriate way of doing things. It'll reduce And it'll reduce your risk of injury and you will get the look you want. There'll be a point where you're going to look in the mirror and be like, oh, my God, this is. But if you don't do that and you chase a look, it's like trying to catch your shadow.

It'll, you'll never get there. It's always going to be in front of you no matter what happens. And I've been to 6% body fat I've done it's never, it's never enough. It's actually really good timing that you're calling in right now because Sal's series just kicked off. And this is a lot of his series is about his lifelong struggle. with exactly what we're talking to you about right now. So definitely make sure you're following along. I know the first episode just went live.

I don't know when the second one's coming. Second one will be up by the time this is today. And this is Mind Pump TV on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, Mind Pump TV, YouTube. You know, we'll send you the link to the first episode. Check it out, Dennis. And you can see, like, I hear me and you. That's why I went straight.

That's why I went real straight with you. Yeah. Because I'm not, there's no advice I can give you fitness-wise. I mean, I can give you a program. I could tell you which program is better. but if we don't if we don't take the route and really tackle that

it's not going to help and you will fall out I'm going to tell you this right now it will you will go back dude I just I'm sorry go ahead go ahead no no do your thing go ahead I was just going to say yeah

I honestly have never thought of it the way I've been putting it and as soon as you said it I was like well yeah that makes a lot of sense but I guess also deep down in my being and what Adam said

yeah i am doing all this stuff oh you cut out like if it if it takes me another year to get to wherever i want to get to so be it but i want to make sure that i'm not messing it up you're no you're doing the right things bro you're your diet i think you're doing more than you need to yeah yeah exactly you could do less and still get to that place totally so but it's like sal was saying if you love working out five days a week keep it going but you're you're doing more than enough to continue to change your physique, continue to get stronger, to continue to lose body fat. And you're feeding yourself appropriately calorie-wise. You've got a good focus on protein. You're hitting all the right vitamins and supplements. You've got your hormones

balanced out because you're taking T.R. I mean, you're doing all the right things. It is just a matter of time. But I think Sal is just wanting you to let you, the sooner you let go, the sooner you'll be happy with where you're going and where you're at. Dennis, I'm going to do something I've never done before. I don't know who you are. So what I'm going to, and I'll never, I probably will never do this again. I'm going to have Doug send you a link to my series and he's going to give you my cell phone number. And I want you to text

me when you have questions or whatever struggles with this. Oh, absolutely. That's awesome. Thank you so much. That means the world to me. As soon as we get off, you'll send that over to you. And then you watch the series and then let me know what you think. And then we'll see if we can't get you on the right path, my friend.

Cool. Can I, can I just a small follow-up question just because I've watched two or three videos that you've posted recently about the Rhonda Patrick, I think is her name. Yep, yep. And so I know that you said, Sal, because I saw you on Instagram say, you know, she's not wrong. I get the philosophy behind what she's saying and what you're saying. But as a person like I've told you what I do, is it better for me to do walk or am I strong enough I should be doing hit to get more fat off my body or it doesn't even matter?

It won't make a difference. It won't. Yeah. You're checking all the boxes, bro. If you want more extra stamina and endurance, you can. You'll probably have to reduce your strength training because it's intense. He's already teetering on. Overdoing it?

Too much. That's just flirting with that. Like you're, you could actually scale down to four days a week or a three day a week and see as much results as you possibly are. And I have no idea what the outside forces are going on as far as stress levels in your life. And so depending on how that is, what you're currently doing right now could even be a little

too much. So adding something that's high intensity, like high intensity, like interval. training won't help it'll only it'll only flirt with that line even more if not cross over that line what you're doing right now brother is more than enough to continue to build a good physique it's it's a slow process it's going to have peaks and valleys but you're not trying when you're your first original question you ain't fucking it up you ain't doing anything that's messing that up you're on the right path uh but i agree with sal like we got to get to the place where we're reframing kind of the goal because even when you reach whatever this this picture is it'll

change. It just does. It will. It'll be, it's that, it's that, it's that shadow, like you said, you'll never catch it, you know? Is the, is the weighted best thing, a smart idea or stupid idea? If you like it. If you like it. I just feel like I'm, I got so used, I did what y'all said and started, you know, at 6,000 steps. And then I know what my body adapted to it. And then I got eight and then I had 10. And then I was just able to walk without my heart rate going up. And so I said, put this on and do the same walking. It should. to add a little extra something I assume it does it makes it harder if you want to make it harder and you enjoy that but is it making a big difference not really okay all right cool

well thank you all your help I really do appreciate everything you'll do you got it man thanks Dennis yeah I had to get straight with him because uh I saw his email well you could tell when he was talking to you and he said it he like he could tell he's hearing himself and he's like yeah shit yeah this doesn't mean you could see it in his eye you could see it literally as it's coming up his mouth. He's saying, he's saying it, and he's going, oh, damn, you're right. Like, it's the wrong focus. Yeah. And we just fool ourselves. And I do it all the time. And it's, again, it's that shadow analogy. And you just will never catch it. You will never, the most, it's so crazy. People on both ends of the spectrum are the most unhappy with their

bodies. People who are totally unhealthy, obese, don't think about anything. They're very unhappy. People on the other extreme, the shredded, you know, whatever, they're just as unhappy with their bodies, it just looks different. It's a similar dysfunction just in the opposite direction. Yeah, you have to tell the audience, too, just why we're concerned about, because what he's doing isn't crazy about over training or something that. But the biggest concern that I have when I hear someone like this is they're doing all the things. And they're doing, and they're putting so much effort towards moving the needle for an aesthetic look. And when you're not getting that look that you're seeking, that's when you throw your,

arms up you go like effort. Why am I doing all this stuff? Versus figuring out, you know, maybe three days is a very easy routine for you to work out. And sometimes you get 10,000 steps. Sometimes you get eight. Sometimes you get 12. And you don't have this crazy regimen. It's just, hey, I'm a guy that walks. Hey, I'm a guy that gets to the gym three times a week. And it's easy. And the results come slowly. But it's something that you just do forever. And you're not constantly measuring the work you're doing for the money you're getting paid. You know what I'm saying? So that's, that's kind of what that trap is, and that's what leads somebody to the on-off. Our next caller is Scott from Canada. What's up,

Scott? What's up, gentlemen? How can we help you? So I sent in the question there. I don't know if you guys can see it or not. Pretty much I suck at dips and pull-ups. And that's all I really want to get better at. Have you guys ever heard of street lifting? Yeah. like all the bar guys and the kings yeah yeah yeah it's like power lifting but they just train like max dip pull up and squat so pretty much i'm super interested in that but i can only uh train at home right now i can't really get out because i got a i got a one and a half-year-old and we got another one on the way so i got a dip station and a pull-up bar

and some dumbbells and a couple kettlebells and I want to get as strong as I can on the dips and pull-ups. And I'm kind of lost. I've tried everything doing negatives, bans. I don't know if it's over-training. My job is pretty labor-intensive. I'm walking 10 to 15-K steps a day and lugging around pails and stuff. So I'm just lost.

I don't know how to get stronger. Yeah. Tell me about your job. What is it that you're doing? Is it a blue collier? Yeah, it's painting, but it's a lot of commercial. So it's a lot of carrying heavy pails around. around and ladders and yeah how's your sleep with the kids uh sleep's honestly not bad like

we get to bed around eight nine so i'm sleeping at least seven eight hours a night okay and how's your diet yeah how are you eating the diet's pretty solid so uh back a while ago uh when i was about 17 i was 2 30 and i ended up dropping down to 1 30 um in a period about 8.000 and a period about eight months, just, it was really disordered eating, but I just didn't know how to lose weight well. But over the course of the last, you know, five to six years, I've just slowly been increasing calories, focusing on, you know, getting stronger in the gym. And I've worked my way up to 32, 3, 3,500 calories. And I don't really ever miss protein. Oh, good. Okay. What does your routine look like? So right now, I'm doing a Monday push day, which is, I'm doing dips, push,

ups and an accessory movement. It's kind of inspired by the Maps 15 style that you guys talk about. And then the next day is a poll day. So it's pull-ups in some fashion, whether it's dips, bands, or sorry, bands or negatives, or something like that. And then it's rows with the kettlebells or the dumbbells. And then usually curls, like an accessory. And then same idea with squats.

So it's about five or six days a week. But it's like half hour a workout. All right. That's not bad, but, you know, I think what might, how many pull-ups and dips can you do? Because I'm going to give you some numbers to work with. So pull-ups, I'm looking at like one to two clean pull-ups and dips I'm looking at anywhere between three and five. But some days I feel strong and I can get them no problem. And other days, I just feel exhausted and there's no chance.

Okay. All right. So here's what we're going to do. Every day you're going to practice, and you want the pull-ups and dips the most, right? Yeah, for sure. Okay, so most days you're going to practice doing them, but real low intensity. And you'll practice them two or three times a day. So rather than doing a set of two where you're pushing yourself or a set of, you know, eight or whatever dips, you're going to go up and do one pull up.

And if you need to jump yourself up there to make it easy, do so. Or use a band. Or use a band. And you're going to practice, you know, just, you know, two or three times a day. You'll go up there and do a couple of those and then come back down. You're going to practice those most days. And then maybe once or twice a week. you can do some of the accessory work and you're going to adjust your intensity based on how you feel

and what i mean by that is you're probably never really going to train hard you're just going to practice pull-ups and dips think of it this way it's like you're trying to get a kickflip on a skateboard you're just trying to get the technique don't worry about the intensity don't try to make it so that you're super tired and fatigued this is not bodybuilding this is different than bodybuilding we're trying to get good at specific exercises okay is that makes sense yeah yeah yeah So what about the rest of the workout routine? So should I still be including some sort of rowing movement on pole days or still trying to get better at the push-ups too?

Or how do I incorporate the skill training with the rest of the programming? Or should I ditch one? I would leave almost everything else out if you really want to get good at those two lifts. And you could do something for like your legs and maybe your core once or twice a week. but you're just you're just going to practice a lot that's all you're going to do and treat it like practice you start to get fatigued you're done yeah most optimally you'll just have it set up so if randomly throughout the day you can do it like multiple times just one rep and then maybe an hour later another one rep and then you just keep kind of attacking it uh randomly throughout

the day and it's just one of those things it's like you said it's a practice it's you just you see it you go attempt it and you do it without fatigue so you make sure you get you get through the mechanics of it, you get as low as you can, and then, you know, grind through it and then try it again. So it's just like one of those things. Just think of it as a constant practicing type of a movement. Okay. And for the diet where that's concerned, before the next baby comes, I'm looking to hopefully lean down. Is that something that I should be doing while not a great strategy sort of skill focused training

Not a great strategy while you're trying to also get strong with this Yeah That's just not ideal And also getting ready to have a kid Yeah It may help because you're lighter That's the other side of it though

So I mean I would eat at maintenance I don't think you should go in a cup While you're doing this Yeah Okay So just eat at maintenance All right guys thanks a lot Just think of it like

For energy Just think of it like practice You're not doing a workout You're going out there And you're practice Every time you walk by the pull up bar you do one and you come down and then you're done and then you try it again later when it comes to dips you do four or five

and you're done you start to get real fatigue tired or sore you're done but you're just practicing the lift and what you'll find is you'll start to get better and stronger relatively rapidly if you treat it like bodybuilding it's going to take a lot longer yeah you're not trying to get all sore from okay so when there comes a point where I work my way up to a solid amount of reps with my body weight on the dip and pull up How long should I wait before I include weight, like on a belt or something?

Is there a rep range you guys suggest for that? No, but I mean, I like to get up to be able to do like 15 to 20 pull-ups. Yeah, 15 or so, yeah. I was going to say at least 10. You want to get to a point where you can at least do 10 body weight before we start loading it with like singles, doubles and triples and stuff. Yeah. That would be a great progression, though, for sure. I'll tell you what I'll do is I'm going to have Doug put you in our private forum.

Yeah, let's follow him as you go through this process so you can kind of check in with us, let us know what you're doing because we're doing something really unique and custom here, right? So this isn't like the typical go follow this program and we have only so much resources

we haven't seen you lift or do anything. So we're going to put you in the private forum, share with us as you're going through it. If you have challenges, you have questions, and we'll get to where you want to go. So we'll help you, we'll help you through that process. Okay, is that on Facebook?

Yes. Okay, I'm going to have to make an account then. I'm not on any social media. Okay. Hey, man. That's a lot of people. We have a lot of people that do that just do it so you don't even have to add anything in there.

Just create one and then Doug will add you. And we'll just for the forum. Yep. Okay. That's awesome. You guys are amazing. I love hearing about your fatherhood stories. And Sal, your journey is great.

Like with the faith-based sort of thing that's going on. And I can't wait to see your series. Appreciate that, man. God bless you. I appreciate you guys a lot. Thanks, man. And congratulations on the new baby, dude. Thanks, Scott. All right. Thanks, guys. Take it easy. Yeah, this practice model isn't typical workout programming.

No, yeah. It's very specific. It is the fastest way to get good at a particular exercise. This is the thing. Like, I had mentioned before with, like, junk volume. Like, it's irrelevant. Like, all the rest of those movements are irrelevant. Like, if he wants to really get good and hone in on it, specifically... Just do that. Yeah, prioritize it. That's it. Dude, I did, I know you have a story of this too.

I did this with pull-ups. At one point, I wanted to be able to do over 20 pull-ups. And all I did throughout the day was I'd hop on a pull-up bar and do like, and at the time, I think my max was like 15. So I'd do like five. I'd put one, two, three, four, five done. And I'd just do that throughout the day in like, in no time I got my pull-ups up to. The craziest part about my story is that I actually wasn't even intentionally trying to do that.

Who was just for fun? I was just for fun. Like, it was literally, I had to walk past that thing. It was like, I don't know. a hundred or five hundred times hit some in a work and I'm by myself out in the middle of nowhere I was just bored I'd hop up I'd do it too I said and then go the next thing and then hop up again just mess just messing around like it was literally good yeah then before I knew it I was reping 25 pull-ups I was like no that was not intentional at all whatsoever so such a it's such a hack but

I wanted them in the forum so that we could because I that's right because he could overdo it yes yeah but this is this is like one of those things that's hard for people to wrap their brain around because it doesn't feel like a workout no no no So I hope he posts in there and share some so we can kind of help them through this process. Our next caller is Randy from Tennessee. Welcome back, Randy. How are you happening? All right.

Good morning, guys. Thanks for me back on. I appreciate it. Yeah, how you doing? If I recall, you were having trouble sleeping and you thought it might be eggs? Yes, that was my initial question. I'll just give you an update on my situation and then ask my follow-up question here. Okay.

Yeah, it turns out it wasn't the eggs. I mean, that was kind of a crapshoot thinking it might be the eggs. but I had to give it a shot with thinking that might be what it is. Last time I was on, you all thought it might be my cortisol levels elevated at night. Turns out that was an issue. I did the Equalife's bedtime cortisol test, and I did their, what was it, the hormone or stress test. And the hormone or stress test, that was very revealing. It showed that throughout, on typical day, or the day I did the test throughout the morning, afternoon, and early evening,

my cortisol levels were very low. Right. Late evening, it's suddenly really high. Yeah, inverted. Inverted cortisol. Yeah. That was definitely there. So I worked with one of their health coaches.

She recommended some supplements for me to take to help with that and some protocols to do. I can go through those if you guys want, but to get to the point. Been doing that stuff and I've been able to fix the cortisol issue. I did the bedtime cortisol test again just a few weeks ago, and it showed optimal levels at night. And I've definitely noticed some improvements to my sleep since working on that. Nice. And I feel throughout the day, too, like back in, I think it was in March was the last time I was on. I could definitely feel throughout the day throughout the mornings and mostly afternoon, my energy levels were down.

I was feeling lethargic. It could take me until about lunch time to get going on most days. And then the evenings, after about dinner time, I'd suddenly get this, like, boost of energy and be wide awake. Now it's like the other way around, which is much more optimal. I can, energy levels coming up much quicker in the morning. I'm able to get going much quicker in the evening's about 9 o'clock, energy's down, and I'm getting tired, and it's like time to go to sleep. So definite improvement there.

I feel like my sleep is still not optimal despite improving quite a bit. Most nights I don't wake up nearly as much in the middle of the night as I used to, which is good, but I still tend to wake up after about five and a half, six hours, and then can't go back to sleep after that. Even though it kind of feels like my quality sleep is good, duration still isn't great. and I think what's going on is there's a tendency for my body temperature to be elevated at night. That seems to be an issue. And so my question now was, and it seems to correlate to when I do my workouts, too.

For reference, right now I'm running MAPS cardio, and I'm in phase three, and I'm doing the four workouts, Monday, Wednesday, Fridays, and Saturdays seems to correlate in the days I do my workouts. Those nights, body temperature seems to be more elevated at night. I was wondering what kind of correlation could there be between when I'm doing my workouts and how I'm doing them and how that might affect body temperature at night when I'm sleeping. What time are you doing your workouts? First thing in the morning. It's not the workout. It's not the workouts, but they are probably too intense for you.

And that's why you're waking up. So you might be getting a little bit of a sugar dump at night, the stress response. So you can see that with a CGM. But even if you don't, I mean, if a workout, if a workout, if, A workout plan is causing insomnia. That's one of the clear signs that it's too much stress for your body. I was wondering about that because I thought for sure, you know, the MAPS cardio program wouldn't be too much for me.

For reference, I don't know if you guys remember last time I did mention last year for pretty much the back half of last year I was overtraining, just doing too much volume intensity and weight lifting and running. And I ended up injuring my back about a week before Christmas. That was either a slip disc or herniated disc in my lower. back. Fortunately, the back is better. I don't have any issues with the back now. I have to give a shout out to, I hope I'm saying his name right, Dr. Aaron Horshig, he's a squat university guy. I bought his book rebuilding Milo. Fantastic book on how to assess and treat weight lift

and weightlifting injuries. It was pretty much the chapter on the back in that book that helped me fix my back. Yeah. Old habits die hard, Randy. So if this is optimal and you are here with overtraining, you're over here now, but you're still overtraining. And insomnia, especially on the days you work out, is a clear, it's one of the clearest signs that it's too much. And I know cardio, I know the program cardio, it's a lot. Come on Maps 15. If you switch to Maths 15 and just focus on walking with it,

your sleep will fix within a week. That's what I suspected. The other thing that happens is seems to be a tendency, whatever muscles were worked in a specific workout, those, like the next one to two nights, those specific muscles will feel like sore when I wake up. Yeah, it's just too much. The disorders will go away during the day when I'm moving around.

Everything during the day feels fine. It's just because those particular muscles that got worked most recently tend to get sore and inflamed when I'm sleeping is what it feels like. And I'll tell you what. I mean, just to hammer it's home. I mean, if you don't fix this, you'll go, you'll invert your cortisol again. Oh, yeah, of course. I'm aware of that. And so here's what happens sometimes.

Sometimes people take themselves out of an excessive stress state. let's say it's inverted cortisol symptom, then they come out of it and they don't give their body enough time to acclimate and heal afterward. Just because your cortisol is back to where it was, doesn't mean you're done. So, you know, I would go, like I said, Mass 15, focus on steps, don't do anything crazy with cardio or anything like that. And within either days or a week, you'll notice an improvement in your sleep. Yeah, I noticed improvement in the last week since, for reference, before I started, I'm about to finish. finish up Maps Cardi. Before I did that, I did map symmetry. And that was fantastic. My body felt

I did that and reversed dieted. My body felt great on that whole program. And like you just said, Sal, that's when I got the point. I thought, okay, I'm good to go. Now I can start pushing myself again. That's right. That's right. That's right. Do you have Mass 15? I have Mass 15 performance. I did that at the start of the year. That's fine. I like that one. Yeah, run that. Yeah, a last piece of advice, maybe best investment ever, eight sleep. I just I swear by that, bro. I mean, you want something, especially if you get hot at night and you run hot, if you're someone like that, oh, my God, eight sleep is a game changer.

Funny mention that I did buy an eight sleep system. You did. I got about a month ago set it up. It seemed to help a little bit, but not a lot. And that's when I started to think, okay, it's probably not just body temperature. It's probably great. Maybe my body is still sensitive to overtraining. That's my certain thing.

It helps. It helps sleep, but if you're overtrained, there's nothing you can, yeah, there's There's nothing in the bed. You could have somebody caressing your head and massaging you all night and still wake up, you know what I mean. Right, right, right. Yeah, so exactly what you guys are saying is what I thought the case was. That's it, my friend.

Map 15 and you'll be, you'll be great. And then stay like that for a while, Randy. Give yourself like six months of allowing your body to heal before you try to scale up again. You'd be so surprised how much you can progress on that program. You'll progress. You'll actually progress that entire time, by the way. We're not taking a step back. Oh, I'm aware.

The unfortunate reality for me is, I'm in the Army. I've been in 12 years. And so sometimes there are things in the Army I have to train for. Of course. Like my unit has a 12 mile foot march coming up end of September. And I'm stationed here at Fort Campbell, home to the 101st Airborne Division. I forgot about that. I forgot about that, Randy. You need to live. Once a year, we have to do a 12 mile foot march. And we have, you know, with combat gear in a 35 pound rucksack. We have to try to finish in three hours or less. Listen, you're still in the military. You need to live in Mass 15. You should just live there. It's the best compliment for that. Yeah, dude. You're already doing a lot. It's going to be the bad. It'll make everything better. You live there.

And then when you know you have something like that coming up, you train in that short period of time for that event. Specifically for that. And then you're back to Map 15. Right. When you know you got a challenge like that, you train for it. And you, especially when it comes to cardiovascular endurance. Yeah, four weeks.

It does not, not even that, dude. A couple weeks you can get in. Yes, you can get cardio. I always tell people that anyone who played sports in high school knows this. It's like it's crazy how quick. How quick we do hell week, right? Everybody did it in basketball, football, whatever sport you played and you come from completely deconditioned summer shape

where you were just hanging out with your buddies and some of that to one week of hell of running cardio and the next thing you know you already have the great now of course you continue to improve but 80% comes back right there so you could get a long ways just in a week or two of training for whatever set event you don't have to be training for months to get that endurance oh yeah I'm aware of that that was my first thought was next month till that footmarch do the cardio train I got to do for that and after that go back to like a that's right there you go there you're on you're on the right track yeah i'd have to say one more thing one sall you said one thing last time i was on that was a real light bulb moment for me um

and the past year and a half has been like a real life transition period for me i was married for five years and then my ex and i split a little over a year and a half ago and we finalized her divorce a few months ago and sall you said last time when you got when you went through your divorce i think you said it was two days after you and your wife at the time had that that conversation where you decided to get divorced. Two days later, you hit several PRs in the gym. That's right. And it was because the stress of that, dealing with that kind of major life change can

be like a performance enhancer. Temporarily. Yeah, it can give you a false sense that, oh, I'm progressing and I can push myself hard. I would say it's more like an artificial enhancer because it's just spiking cortisol and adrenaline. My body thought a bear was attacking me. It was a stress response. And I was, I was hypomanic for a little bit before it crashed.

yeah so after you said that last time that was i had a moment where i said okay i gotta be honest with myself i've got underlying stress here that i've not dealt with and i totally had to start dealing with that good for you randy that's good for you bro you're self-aware you're on the right track brother you're gonna do good yeah i think so you are good stuff man all right well thanks again guys really appreciate it give good take it easy yeah it's good he's gonna he's gonna do great if he goes mass 15 but yeah right when he started cardio and i was like okay you're we're doing it's Not the eggs. I forgot he was military guy, too.

Yeah, me too. And then I remembered him. Yeah, 100%. Our next caller is Kyler from Michigan. Kyler, what's happening? Hi, guys. How are you doing? Good, man.

What's up? So, just to reference my email, starting off, just pleasure to talk to you guys, I've gotten a lot of advice in the past from you, just watching, including, Sally, your story about your father's vitamin D deficiency, which I found out. I personally do have as well. Adam, your recommendation for Atomic Habits. That book was amazing. And Justin, in general, your training advice and style has been very applicable to my personal

life. So thank you, guys. Awesome. Thank you, man. I found you around COVID when that started. I started diving deep into YouTube and watched a lot of your content. and haven't missed a video since. To reference my starting point, about 11 years ago,

I was 327 pounds. I was morbidly obese at the age of 21 in height of 5'7. I turned my life around. I dropped the weight in about 9.5 months down to 185 pounds. Wow. I started powerlifting with a few friends got into that heavily and had to stop due to getting my second hernia. I took a year off, had some lingering pain that prevented me from coming back right away,

started getting into bodybuilding and a few other modalities of fitness. I've tried almost everything along with diets over the years. And this year, I actually went for the big push. At the beginning of this year, I said I'm going to finally get to my goal, which was 163 pounds I know. arbitrary number, but it was half of my heaviest body weight, and it was a lifetime goal. And I was finally actually able to hit that, May of this year. And that's the photo reference that I sent in was actually me at my leanest.

And ever since getting there, I have experienced both an overuse injury due to excessive cycling. I do believe it's pedendal neurologia, along with recently a, a grade two rotator cuffed hair. I'm just kind of running into an issue to where I seem to be pushing myself too hard on a consistent basis while fixating on the dieting aspect. I know that I kept my calories too low for too long and I focused on the scale number, which wasn't a good idea, at least in the long term.

I stayed there too long and I'm struggling at this point in my life now that I essentially achieved the weight loss that I've always went after as far as what to do going forward. How do I proceed with my fitness at this point in time as far as the style I should be focusing on, where my calories should be at? I've always used my own self-programming over the 10 years and I feel pretty accomplished with where I've gotten from that. But your guys' this is advice above anyone else's is what I was interested in and how I should proceed considering my current main modalities of training are a combination of weighted calisthenics, kettlebells, some mace works, sandbags, things of that nature.

I did recently bump my calories up from the deficit point of 2000 to 2250, now up to 2550, but mentally I struggle with eating at maintenance or in a surplus due to my history with being overweight. And I did also have disordered eating in the past, which was related to binge eating, which turned into competitive eating and excessive cardio to keep that in check. And based off from references you've made in the past, I do believe that I have. a tendency to push too hard and might fall into the category of a cortisol junkie, considering I do enjoy higher intensity workouts without classifying them as, what is that called?

I can't think of the word right now. Not high rocks, the other one, CrossFit. Yeah. Sorry. Kyler, let me start by congratulating you on how far you've gone. Dude, I'm so impressed that he got injured and you didn't bounce back. The fact that your first injury didn't cause you to put a ton of weight on in that year is super impressive.

That normally always, that's what happens. So most people, most people never get to the place that you're at, okay? But the ones that do, there is another step now. So you're done with that phase. You did all the grit and everything to get you here. Right. What that phase looks like is I have this goal and I'm fixated and focused on this goal and you got there most people don't even get there but you did now you have to get to the next

goal or the next level which is there is no goal and now you have to just enjoy the journey yep and this is going to be just as hard as the previous time was if not harder it is a complete mental shift because the challenge now for you is that you because you were so fixated on the goal and you got there you don't have the operating system to continue If you stay with the same operating system, it's going to result in overtraining, under-eating, obsession, injury,

nothing positive. Illness. This operating system, which worked for the goal, no longer works now for the stage that you're at now. It's like you're driving a car and you made it to the top rev of first gear. You can't stay in first gear anymore.

You're going to burn out your engine. You've got to go to second and third gear and fourth gear. So the next level, is how do I fall in love with just the journey? How do I become a guy who just likes to work out? This is just what I do. How do I become a guy that just enjoys eating healthy? And what that looks like is a bit scary

because the fear is if I move out of the old operating system, oh no, I'm going to gain all that weight back. That old operating system got me here. If I move out of that, what's going to happen? Well, I know, I can tell you this. First off, I don't know what's going to happen. if you move out of that operating system, I think if you do what I'm saying,

I know you'll do well, but I can guarantee you what'll happen if you stay in that operating system and for sure you'll, you'll injure yourself, crash out, burn out, and you'll be out of it. Your body will force you. So we have to move out of it.

And again, it's about enjoying the process. So what that's going to look like from a diet perspective is you're going to slowly take your hands off of controlling everything. Now, what that's going to look like is more of a reverse diet, and then on a day-by-day basis

you're going to stop focusing on it. Now, if you start to go off the rails, which may happen, if you start to take your focus off of it, right now you got your hands around your diet like this, you start to take the hands off of you. Like, okay, I did that for a couple days, and I just went crazy.

Go ahead and grab it again. And then try again and slowly take your hands off to the point where you're comfortable and you enjoy eating in a healthy way. So that's going to be a bit of a process. With the workouts, you're going to do what you enjoy and you're going to stop chasing intensity.

Right now, you say that you love the intense workouts. That's actually not true because it's causing you so many problems. This is why you're like, this is dysfunctional. Like, this doesn't make any sense. What it is is that you, again, you were in an operating system that worked for you and you're afraid to let go of it. So really, it's not that you love it. It's that you're afraid of letting go of it.

So you got to move into something where you enjoy the process. You're actually in it. You're like, man, I feel. this feels really good I feel really joyful this is giving me good energy like I feel healthy and it's not dominating my life because the first operating system probably dominated your life right so now you got to get into something where it's not dominating your life it's just making your life better we probably need to hear what a seven day week looks like for you so we can probably stare step you back because ripping off the bandaid typically doesn't work in the situation you can't do it all at once and so

Like, give me a week what the activity exercise movement looks like so I can probably give you some little tips on what I do from there. Okay, so a typical week, at least in reference to when that photo was taken at my peak, it was push-pull, leg split, six days a week, along with anywhere between 30 to 60 minutes of higher intensity cardio, usually a 16-mile-per-hour average pace on the bike for a solid 60 minutes before I got injured. After the injury, I was no longer able to do the bike. still to this day I can't do the bike because of the injury, so I have reduced myself to just walking. I know you guys said steps are king, so I said, if they say I can do walking as much as I want, then I'm going to do that. So I ended up switching to just that, but then the push-pull legs program still seemed to be too much, especially in the caloric deficit. So I backtracked to, what was it, an upper, lower, upper-lower arms and or accessible.

day. Then I actually ended up trying, based off your recommendation as well, a full body split three days a week and just focusing on walking on my off days, which is where I am currently at majority of the time. Okay. I can't quite do all of the exercises that I currently want to do to the rotator cuff. Overhead work is limited at least to unilateral on the right hand side currently. Dips cause a bit of too much of an internal rotation and golfer's elbow has been flaring up in my right arm limiting my pull up capabilities. How long, Kyler, how long are your full body workouts? Typically, the shortest one is 40 to 45 minutes. That's good. Usually if I cut rest times, which I know you guys recommend not to do so, I've tried extending them, which

takes my workout to a minimum of an hour to an hour and a half. Okay, so let me ask a different question. How many exercises per body part are you doing and how many sets per exercise? So I reduced it actually. When I extended the rest time, I actually ended up reducing the number of sets. Now I'm down to three. And depending on the day, I would say it's usually nine, maybe 10 different exercises that I usually end up doing. Just because I do have that, I guess you call it FOMO when it comes to missing out on working

a specific body part because I'm trying to go for overall development, not just aesthetically but also performance-wise. Okay, you can't be honest with me. Okay, because I'll help you, but I can't help you if you're, so I want you to be really, really honest with the situation. If I

had you do a MAPS 15 performance protocol where you're in the gym about 20 minutes a day. Most ideal, probably. That's ideal, but I need to know from you for, like, you've got to tell me, is that doable for you? Or do you think you're like, no, man, I got to be in the gym more? I like being in the gym. And again, normally I work out at home.

So it is one of my favorite things to do because it essentially saved my life. But why I'm here is to get advice and recommendations from you guys because I value your opinions. You are the professionals. And essentially, I told my wife at the end of the day. day if they tell me to do something I'm going to do it wow I like that good job I'm going to send you mass 15 performance do that I want you to follow that maintain your steps and continue reverse dieting and then what I'm going to do is I'm going to have you back on the show uh in a few months so we could just check in you're actually doing a really good job bro when you started the the decisions that you

made uh from where you were and where you're going you're on the right track this is a this is a normal transition for someone like you you you lost 160 pounds uh That is a radical, radical. People just don't appreciate this enough. It is a dramatic lifestyle change. It is the way you live versus how you used to live is so different. You're a different person. And so you got there, but now we need to move you to the next level because what served you then is not going to serve you anymore.

And this is a very normal transition. This is exactly what happens to anybody who gets to the place that you got to. Now the next level is going to get you to the forever part. training part of it that's right yeah car are you on are you on facebook too i'd like to put you in the private forum so we can we can stay connected okay cool i'm going to have doug put you in there thank you i really do appreciate all the kind words and everything you you guys have said that means a lot and uh again i i do promise that i will take your advice and follow whatever steps you tell me to i did have an additional question of curiosity based off from my caloric intake currently

Again, I was dieting at 2,000 to 2250. That was just with the steps and the full body and or upper lower three to four days a week. And now being at 2550, I also increased my average step count to where a low day for me is about 13,500. And that's with 30 minutes on the treadmill in the morning before work, 30 minutes on my lunch break and then getting the rest. however I can throughout the day. At some point, does that become too excessive, considering it has led to general leg fatigue? No, your calories are too low.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Are you okay? Look, will you be happy if you built some muscle? Yeah. All right. Go up 500 calories.

Five hundred? Yeah, get up to 2,900 calories, and you'll, and watch what happens. Yeah. Mass 15 performance, 2,900 calories, and you're just going to build muscle. Yeah. Yeah. And you can keep the walking the way you are. And you just keep doing what you're doing with the walking.

Okay, so 2,900 calories, math 15's performance. Yeah. And walk as much as I want. As much as you want. But okay, hold on. Keep it low intensity. Hold on. No, no, no, no.

Keep your walking where it's at. You slip that in there, Tyler. Don't be doing crazy inclines or like intensity. He's like, cool, I'm going to do 35,000 steps a day. I heard you slipped that in there. No, no, no, keep the walking with what you're doing. Yeah. Okay.

You're going to be in the forum now. So as you go through this, I want you to reach out, tag. us and talk to us as you go through this. So you have any challenges, you have any questions, you're thinking about doing something, just message us in there and we'll walk you through this. But you're going down the right path, bro. You're doing the right things. You're making the steps. You got this. And I appreciate the trust. I appreciate the trust. You'll never have to worry about trusting us again after you do this. Watch. I wasn't worried to start if I'm being perfectly honest. Good stuff, brother. All right. Well, we're going to set you up. You're in there.

And we'll see you again. And then we'll talk to you in there. And then we'll do a follow up on the actual show. Fantastic. Thank you guys so much for taking my call and helping me. Take it easy, man. Great job, man. Thank you.

Yeah, normal. I mean, the answer he gave at the end was like, okay, if you trust this. Because he's submitting. He's just going to do it. And I know it's going to be scary. But he's going to be blown away by the end of this. Super impressive. I mean, obviously, the total number is impressive.

But what really struck me was when he was on that path, lost that weight, then got hurt, got hurt to where he had to completely pull back for almost a year on stuff and to not put that weight all that? Yeah, just for that back. Cool, man. That, that, the discipline to go through that at that time right there, very few people, very few people can take the weight off and keep it off,

much less suffer a major injury and not put it back on. I mean, that's some serious discipline. Look, if you like our show, come find us on Instagram, Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there. you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic, nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam

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