Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2687: Zuby On The Current State of America

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

Zuby Becoming a father. (1:31) Living in Dubai. (5:12) Collectivism is dangerous. (12:28) The more relatable it is, the more it impacts people. (20:38) Our perception is getting manipulated. (22:56) Normal doesn’t go viral. (25:40) The downstream effects of this exposure. What should we be looking for? (28:32) Agreeing to be civil with each other. (30:24) RIP Charlie Kirk. (33:05) The impact of your words. (40:13) 3 ways to solve any conflict. (44:23) The importance of being rooted in the real world rather than online. (48:45) Raising kids in this tech world. (54:00) What keeps him centered and calm? (58:13) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Legion Athletics for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP for buy one, get one 50% off for new customers, and 20% cash back for returning customers! ** Muscle Mommy Movement Quiz Mind Pump Store Ukrainian woman stabbed to death in unprovoked attack while riding train in North Carolina: Police Charlie Kirk, influential voice for young conservatives, killed at 31 Mind Pump # 1912: The Science of Successful Marriages & Relationships With Drs. John and Julie Gottman Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest/People Mentioned ZUBY (@ZubyMusic) Twitter ZUBY (@zubymusic) Instagram Joe Rogan (@joerogan) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. We brought back Zubi. He was such a great guest last time.

Such an intelligent gentleman. One of the best people on social media. His commentary, so intelligent, so well-thought. out, so balanced, so calm. This is so needed, especially during a time like this one. In today's episode, we talk about all the crazy stuff that's happening in the world, including the terrible assassination of Charlie Kirk. We know you're going to enjoy this episode.

He is not somebody that tries to polarize. He's quite balanced. This episode is brought to you by Legion supplements. These are supplements that are high quality. Great for those of you that want to build muscle, burn body fat, or improve your health. If you go through our link, you can get yourself a discount. Go to buylegin.com. That's b-y-l-G-I-O-N.com forward slash mind pump.

Use the code mind-pump. You can buy one, get 50% off. Also, ladies, we have a group coaching group, the muscle mommy movement group. This is for women who like to build muscle, sculpt their body, get incredibly fit. This is group coaching done by mind pump. Go check it out.

Go to muscle mommy movement. dot com all right real quick if you love us like we love you why not show up by rocking one of our shirts hats mugs or training gear over at mind pump store.com I'm talking right now hit pause head on over to mind pump store.com that's it enjoy the rest of the show. Zubi welcome back to the show man thank you so much great to see you guys again thank you doing daddy have you yeah you're a good father it's awesome man isn't it I was I was already a very happy man yeah and I've just opened this new chapter a few months ago married man husband father and yeah i've got a little son now a little mini me out there in the world

and he's wonderful he's great my wife is great and i feel very blessed man i feel very i'm i'm always interested where like at what point um did it hit you that you were you were a different man wow um in which aspect the the fatherhood yeah aspect yeah as soon as i knew she was pregnant Okay. So as soon as I knew she was pregnant, I was like, yeah, I have a, I have a child. I didn't know what he or she looked like. But I was like, yeah, I quietly knew I have a child that's in the world. I just haven't seen them yet. Did you, did you find that you started to change in ways? Was there things about you that, like, maybe you didn't think would happen or like you'd notice like, oh, wow, I'm different with stuff like this now. Like, you notice stuff like that? Yeah, I think there was just an immediate reprise. Prioritization. Immediately became less selfish and more selfless. So I went from just thinking of, you know, me and what I need to do to thinking what is best for what is best for this upcoming family. Yes. So all of the decision making now runs through that filter. Whereas last time you guys saw me, which wasn't even all that long ago. I mean, I wasn't even living anywhere at the time. I think I was just totally nomadic. and, you know, not in a negative way. I was more selfish just because I could be.

And it was just like, all right, as long as I'm good. And I can just go and be and do what I want. I don't need to think of too many other people's considerations. And yeah, that's now changed. And I'm aware that it's changed permanently. And so that's great. You know, a lot of people say that you're never ready to be a dad. You're never ready to become a parent.

I didn't feel that, actually. I kind of felt like very ready. Me too. And I think also I'm very glad that I got to be an uncle times 10 before becoming a father. So I think it made the transition less of an extreme jump. I know with some of my friends and acquaintances when they became a dad, you know, they'd almost like never even held a baby before. And suddenly it's just like, what the heck am I doing?

Whereas in my case, I've been an uncle for 19 years. So and, you know, five nieces, five nephews. So I've seen them go through these different stages. My oldest niece now is 19. my youngest nephew is two. So I've seen all of my four older siblings go through this process. So I don't think I walked into it as blindly as some other people do. Obviously, you can't be 100% prepared and things are always going to be different.

And there's things you've got to adjust and adapt to. And that's going to keep changing. But I know that that's the case because I know so many people who have been through that and who are going through that. So I'm not expecting, you know, even in the first four months, things have already changed, you know, from newborn stage to a few months old. So I know that's going to just keep happening. Now, when did you get married? Was it shortly after that you guys had the baby?

Yeah. We had a miracle where the baby was born just two weeks after we got married. Wow. God works in his series. I've never said that publicly. I'm an honest man. But that wasn't like we were going to get, it was an acceleration. Yeah.

We were already on that course. And then it was like, oh, okay. Well, here we go. All right. And now you live here in the States? I live in Dubai. Oh, you live in Dubai? Yeah, I live in the UAE.

What's that like? I've seen somebody reposts about the safety and kind of like the, just how different it is over there versus the states. Explain that. Sure. I think Dubai is one of the best cities in the world. You guys might know I grew up in Saudi Arabia. I grew up in the Middle East.

So I spent 20 years already living in the Middle East and I've moved back there about two years ago now. So Dubai is, yeah, it's one of the cleanest, safest, most. futuristic cities in the world. A lot of people compare it to Singapore. It's hard to explain. It's easier to kind of answer specific questions because lots of things are just very different. So people know different things. A lot of people, you know, know the sort of glamorous aspect of it. Some people know that, you know, there's like, there's no taxes. Some people know that it's, you know, I think it's just this millionaire playground. Some people compare it to

this or that. There are other people who think it's like, oh gosh, it's in the Middle East. So it must be like, you know, dangerous and horrible for women and blah, blah, blah, and you have no rights. And it's nonsense. Can't think of a safer city for women. But, yeah, Dubai is a great place. It's not for everyone. It's extraordinarily hot, particularly right now, like in the summer. If you're going to visit, I always recommend people October to March, unless you really, really like the heat.

But it's a fascinating and phenomenal city in many ways. If you think just a few decades ago, it was mostly just a desert and there wasn't really anything there. And then you see the scale of the infrastructure now. That's crazy. And just how far along it is. It's unique in many ways. I mean, 90% of the population is foreign. So only 10% of the population there is nationals.

In the UAE as a whole, only 15% of the entire country's population is actually Emirati. Wow. So 85% excellence. I didn't know that. Where are most of the expats from? I think numbers-wise, the biggest majority would be India. Maybe followed by like Bangladesh, Pakistan, Philippines. But you have people from all over the globe.

Lots of Russians, lots of Brits, people from every single continent, every single country. And what's interesting with Dubai is it's one of those places. No one ends up there by accident. So everyone who lives there has moved there in the way that I moved there and the way that my, family is there. So apart from the small national population, everyone has moved there intentionally for specific reasons. So there's a, that changes things quite a lot, actually. Because if you think most places, most people are in places just because they happen to be born there. Um, whereas there's intention. Yeah, there's intention. So you have a sort of naturally filtered population. That makes sense.

And that's actually one of the, a lot of people think that there's virtually no crime just because, of the harsh punishments but actually that's not the first and foremost thing the first and foremost thing is this natural filter with how they actually do immigration and how they bring people in so everyone is gainfully employed everyone is either you know has a job or as an entrepreneur or is an investor so there's there are just large swathes of people hanging around doing nothing and even if there were there's no motivation for that well a your visa is tied to your employment so you can't be there doing nothing, but also there's no taxes, therefore there's no welfare system. So there's no, like, if you look at the U, if you look at the U.S. or Canada or Europe or

something, there are advantages, sorry, there are systems that people can take advantage of. Right. Right. So someone can be like, hey, if I can just get into the UK or get into the states, I can kind of leach off of this system, that doesn't exist over there, right? So if you're not working, you're not, you're not eating, you're not accommodating yourself. There's, there's nothing for you. So I don't know that.

Yeah. So there's all of the, all of these natural. But I think it's a great place, super family friendly, probably the most, one of the most family friendly cities in the world is babies and children, toddlers fricking everywhere. Everyone's happy. Everyone's peaceful. It's like a little utopia. There's no politics.

There's no culture war. There's no all of that stuff that occupies so much of people's brains. It's just, it's just not there. It's like this dark cloud lifts off of you. You mentioned harsh laws. The only time I hear about the harsh laws are like drug possession laws. So and so got caught with, you know, marijuana and they went to jail for 20 or 30 years. Are there are there harsh laws in other ways as well, like for like violence or something like that?

Like, yeah, where does that, where does that perception come from? You know, there just isn't this whole like, let me just call it what it is, this sort of like liberal progressive soft on crime mentality of like, oh, you know, we should just like, we need to be like very tolerant and kind to and compassionate towards people who steal, people who rape, people who rob, people who assault others. there's no across the whole region all the gcc so you know Saudi Arabia Qatar UAE Bahrain Omar like they Kuwait they don't they don't play that you murder someone like you're gone there's no three strikes no no one strike like but it never but because of that it never comes to it as you know there's no the murder rates like zero right so and if you're not planning on like killing anyone why are you worried about you know what I mean like like you don't need to worry about that because like

Unless you're, you know, unless you are planning to go there and, like, move bricks of cocaine. You don't need to worry about what the, yes, drug traffickers get the death penalty. But if you're going to Saudi Arabia or the UAE to sell drug, like, okay. Like, it's hard to think of something more stupid than that, right? Like, people know the rules. You land in the airport. It tells you, right? So, yeah, so there are harsh penalties for certain crimes.

but if you are like a normal law-abiding person, you don't need to worry about any of that. In the same way, you probably don't walk around here constantly, like worrying about like being put in prison for this. Like, what are you doing? You're not like running around hurting people. So yeah, they don't, yeah, they don't tolerate that.

And I don't think they should. Like I'm, um, I'm very, I'm pretty hardcore on like, I'm, by Western standards. Like certainly when I'm in the UK, in the US, you guys actually have the death penalty. It's abolished all. across Europe, right? So in the UK, like, certain things will happen. And I'm like, people

like this used to be hanged, right? In the UK used to have like some pretty crazy punishments for people. Yeah. And then they kind of abolished it all. And now you got people running around stabbing each other, running around shooting. And I'm like, why is this being tolerated? You're letting a tiny, tiny fraction of the population tyrannize everyone else, whereas you could just put them in prison forever or, you know, get rid of certain people. And you won't have to deal with that. And, you know, the USA is going through that now as well. By the time someone murders someone, usually they've been like arrested and 20 times. Literally, 20 times and been let out again and again and again. And it's just like, why? We shouldn't live this one of the things

I appreciate about you is your commentary on social media seems measured. Thank you. It's always measured. You don't seem to get into these extreme like. And I love how you will counter some of the extreme stuff and kind of bring it back to like, you guys, it's all relaxed. Like, here's what's happening. What was the woman's name, the Ukrainian woman that got stabbed on the...

Irene Zerutska, something like that. Yes, yes. So that's, that was a more recent one. And the guy had been let out 14 times. Oh, that was 20. That's why I said 20. His own mother. Yes.

Was like he's not safe. Like he needs to be put either in an asylum or some type of separation from society. Yes. And I love your commentary on how, because people, what's wild about stuff like this, you know, you go all the way back to George Floyd and then this. And is that people turn it into something it's not.

A race thing. It's a race thing. It's become a race thing. I saw Matt Walsh did this really angry, you know, black Americans are this much more likely to do, what they're doing is a conflating data. It's like, look at people who are raised. in single parent households. That's your correlate or whatever,

if you want to use that kind of a correlate. But we're ignoring the fact that this was a person that was violent 14 times, essentially, and we let them out. And I love how you counter some of that stuff. What do you see is the danger of how people can take these things and run with them? I think collectivism in general is dangerous. I think collective guilt is an extremely dangerous concept.

I think that and collective punishment, which leads from that is an extremely dangerous concept. So just like in the past 10 years with all the woke crap, sane people have been battling this idea that all white people are racist or all white people are, all white Americans are somehow responsible for slavery and Jim Crow or whatever, and everyone has blood on their hands and everyone,

you know, like all of these narratives which came from the progressive left of, you know, the whole white people bad narrative. You know, people rightfully got sick and tired of that And I think now there's this sort of swing that has happened and there's a danger always of this overcorrection. We overcorrected to the left for, I don't know how many years, maybe two decades, maybe three decades. And now there's a risk of, as the pendulum comes back towards the middle, there's the risk of those same tactics and that same type of thinking just swinging back the other way. And that's happened before throughout history, right?

where it's it's it's collective guilt it's collective blame it's collective punishment it's like oh well there are some bad look there are bad people in every single demographic however you want to cut it uh ethnically nationally racially religiously non-religiously politically like there are there are bad people out there and there's people who do bad things um but i have the same so i'm i'm as responsible for that stabbing that happened in charlotte as you are right like we as you are as you like like what connection do I have to oh I'm also you have African descent so now I'm somehow implicit you know for someone like that's a crazy way for someone to think that oh well I'm not even a black American but even if I were a black like no person except the guy who did

that is is culpable is responsible if there are people around the community that have failed him or people who are supporting or celebrating that kind of activity. then that's also a problem. But there's always a temptation for collective guilt, I think, in humanity. It's not something new. Human beings are tribal and always have been, and there are good parts to that. That's why we feel so bonded to our families, and it's why people feel like patriotic about their nation or, you know, their sports team or they're coming, whatever it is, right?

There are good ways to be tribal. but we've seen so many times all throughout history and even right now how it can go really haywire and how it can be very dangerous and how it can be discriminatory and genocidal at its most extreme. So whenever I see people starting to lean in that direction where they're moving away from individualism and thinking, okay, like this is a problem and this needs to be dealt with in a proper way and there should be justice to just like, oh, all X people, all Y people have this problem or somehow responsible. That's where I always kind of ring the little warning bell. Yeah.

Because I don't want this nation or any other to kind of fall back into that way of thinking. Do you think it's orchestrated? It is sometimes. It is sometimes. But it's also on an individual. It's just a, it's a temptation. you know it's it's it's it's a temptation because people do recognize patterns and you know you can talk about something honestly without getting stupid about it right okay so i don't take any

offense or like if someone is like oh you know um statistically in the USA the black population is has a higher rate of you know crime right than uh the white population or the Asian population That is just statistically and objectively true. And people might, there are different reasons why that may be the case. But even when, like, a lot of conservatives like the whole, you know, 13% of the population commits 50% of the country, which is sort of lying with statistics to me. 100% right? Because the truth is it's probably more like 2% of 13% of the population is committing 50% of the crimes. That's right.

So the vast majority of black Americans are not criminal and are not murdering anyone, robbing anyone, raping anyone, right? So if you just say 13% of the population is doing 50% of the crime, it makes it sound like literally like every black American is out there committing crimes. And I'm just like, that's not true, first of all. It's not fair. And a lot of people just are not, you know, the truth is a lot of people just are not very sophisticated thinkers. And so they can be led to believe things that are not true quite easily.

And I just think if you have a, If you have a big platform and you're an honest actor, you should always be cautious with that. And you should also just, I just think I'm all about speaking the truth. Like, I'm all about being honest and honest conversations and hard conversations. I'm happy to do that all day. I don't get emotional about it. But I think you also should think about, okay, what's the goal? What's the intention?

So say even if someone does just want to talk about like, all right, let's just go deep on crime stats and talk about crime stats and talk about demographics and what. It's like, okay, what's the goal here? Is the goal to assign some type of collective guilt to a whole bunch of people, including, you know, most of whom are innocent? Or is the goal to address the underlying issues and see, okay, what's actually going on here where there's little pockets of places and people where there's just, you know, extremely high crime, you know, and what can be done about it? Is the goal to change the laws? because obviously if someone has been arrested 14 times and been through the system 14 times keeps getting let out like to me that's

that doesn't sound to me like a law enforcement failure that's that's a judicial failure so whoever I don't know how the system works in you know cities and states here but I know I live in a place where you can't you can't commit 14 crime they keep letting you back out there no after the first one you'll be in prison and you'll be deported Um, and so there's obviously something that needs to change and people have a right to be angry. Um, but, but be angry at the right thing. Be angry at the right people. If you're just sort of lashing out randomly at your fellow citizens who have no more culpability than you do that. I feel like it's impossible to live in a, in such a huge melting pot country that is so free and, uh, and is so loose on the laws and think that will completely eradicate.

evil and bad. I don't care how we talk about it or how much evil will always exist. And you can always find a murder and attack, a robbery, something that fits the narrative. That's why I asked if you thought it was orchestrated

because it's like every day people are getting killed, hurt. I will tell you something that happens. And this is sad to say but it's just true. But people care about the crimes in the situations which somehow fit their narrative or a general or pre-existing biases.

Because we all know, look, I don't know, I don't know the stats in this country, but certainly around the world, you probably, you know, thousands of people get killed, get killed every day. You know, I'd imagine in the U.S. alone, it's got to at least be dozens, probably. And so you can't care about them all. You can't even know about them all. lands you're going to spend your whole life just, you know, every single day. You're just looking at homicides. And so people naturally latch on to the things that emotionally hit them.

A huge factor is, is there a photo or a video? The video itself, which now is more like, like if something's on video, then it hits people emotionally in a different way. And then if there's some type of relatability to it, either it happened in your city or the victim. was someone who looks like you or could be like your friend or your daughter or your right like the more relatable it is the more it the more it impacts people if we read a story and it says that i don't know a bomb went off in bagdad and killed 80 people that doesn't hit the same way as if a bomb went off in san jose and killed 80 people not because those 80 people's lives are worth different amounts but it's just whoa that's close to home like i do i know someone

involved like is everyone I know okay all that type of thing so that that's just part of the that's just part of the human psyche i think what you're what you're pointing to is the human psyche and when we say when when people speculate on the orchestration here's where i think it gets orchestrated and i'd love to hear your opinion on this sure i'm not talking about like puppet masters pulling the strings making things happen what seems very clear to me is what gets orchestrated is things happen and then either political parties or media will grab something and run with it and create a distorted perception of things. For example, if you were to ask conservatives, if you were to ask conservatives, has crime

gotten worse in America over the last 20 years or 15 years? They'd say yes. Even though the crime stats show, that's not true. In fact, I had this because of discussion with my cousins today, and they were debating an argument like, find the stats. FBI stats. Here's stats for me. It shows crime.

In fact, I listed the cities. I said, what cities do you think are the most dangerous in America per capita for homicides? Oh, it's got to be Chicago. It's got to be San Francisco. You know, Memphis, Tennessee is like number four. It's a very, you know, so and I'm like, you're- Memphis, St. Louis. Yes.

Like Baltimore. You're right. Yeah, those are places. And I'm like, our perception is what's getting manipulated. If you were asked liberals, has racism gotten worse over the last 20 years or 30 years? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Not true.

It's not true at all. But our perception has, you know, sexism gotten worse. Oh, yeah, it definitely has. No, it hasn't. It actually hasn't. And this, you can measure this in many, many different ways. One of the ways is you measure interracial marriages and relationships continues to grow. What's a great indicator of how race relations are in this country.

So this is where I start to think or see, oh, man, this is orchestrated. And so what it looked to me like is public perception or opinion is moving. moving towards the left, they're going to hammer on that until they feel things start to move to the right. Now let's hammer in that direction. That's what it appears. That's what it seems like now. Yeah. Is that they're, they're now pushing in these other directions. And things happen and sometimes extreme things happen that can kind of fit that narrative, but they're going to run with it. And then this is how we get manipulated every single time. Yeah, I think there are a lot of different things that are going on. And some of them are relatively new to the past 20 years or so.

obviously now we live in this world of social media and smartphones and people forget with smartphones it also means that everyone is also walking around with cameras and video cameras at all the time so the amount of crime that you see yeah has increased yeah right it doesn't mean the amount of crimes increased like a ridiculous amount yes exactly so now you're very likely to see photos you're going to see videos gosh man obviously I know we were certainly going to talk Like, you know, we, we saw Charlie Kirk, I saw. Horrible. We literally saw him get murdered.

Horrible. Like, I saw it. Like, I didn't just hear about it. I saw it. This woman on the train, Irene, you met, like, we, you saw it. It wasn't, it wasn't just you heard the story, which is bad enough. It's like, no, you, if you were there. Even if you didn't want to see the video, you probably saw.

That's right. Right. I didn't seek out the video. Yeah. I'm just scrolling and, whoa, what, like, what just, you know, and that affects people's brains. If you think prior to the last, prior to like our generation and maybe, maybe the one above us, if you ever saw someone get killed or you saw a violent incident or you saw like something crazy, it meant for all of our ancestors, it meant they actually saw it. It meant they were there.

Think about this. For thousands and thousands of years of human history. How rare, how, think about how rare that is. You could go your whole life and probably never see that. Most people would go their whole life. But if you did, you were in danger. Yeah, but now, but like our brains haven't sort of, you know, magically evolved in the last 20 years. So like when people, the reason why people have this perception, it's not, media manipulation is part of it, both what they cover and what they don't and how they spin it. But it's also just like what people are seeing. And I don't think our brains are that well are designed to sort of separate, oh, well, this is just something I'm seeing on a screen versus this is something I'm like really seeing. And it's,

and it's global. It's like you guys are probably seeing, you know, horrible stuff happening in the UK or or bad stuff happening across Europe. Like, why are we seeing so much of it? And then you're not just seeing, you're getting all the commentary and this and that. So I can totally understand why people feel like cities in particular and their whole nation are getting more dangerous. I can understand why there are people who think that the police are just driving

around, just murking black people, right? We all know that that's not, well, that's not what's happening. That's not what the data bears out. But you can go online and you can find hundreds of, and hundreds and hundreds of videos of real world incidents of these things happening. If you're someone who's worried about, you know, black on black crime or black on white crime or whatever, like, whatever direction, you can go online and you can find video after video after video.

And by the way, once you've watched a few, the algorithm is going to be like, oh, okay, I'm going to give you more of these. So I can see why people are, why people think that way. And sadly, normal doesn't go viral. right normal doesn't go viral if it's in the news or if it's going viral on social media by definition it's an anomaly um and in a country of 350 million people a lot of stuff happens every single day but you're not you're not getting fed oh like you're not getting fed anything positive so so all true all true uh we're not uh we're not designed or evolved uh to see this kind of

stuff so often. No. What are the, what should we be, what are the warnings? What are the downstream effects of this exposure that we need to be careful for since we are seeing this stuff? That's a fantastic question. I think the first one is just your own personal mental well-being and your emotional well-being because it's very easy to get blackpilled.

It's very easy to just be in a state of constant anger and outrage or sadness or frustration because you just keep seeing all this stuff. and like you're meant to feel that, right? You're not meant to watch these videos and not feel anything. Like, of course you feel bad about it. But there's a level where it's not helpful. You know, there's a balance between being informed

and just being inundated with like horrible stuff that's going on. Whether it's in your country or abroad, all of this bad stuff that's happening to the point that you become very fearful and incapacitated or you're just so distracted that you can't take care of yourself and your family, you can't go about your daily business because you're just feeling upset all the time. So I think that's one danger.

Which has its own downstream effects. If you're scared or angry, think of all the ways that can impact your decisions and actions just throughout your day, even just with your family or with people around you. Yeah. Another danger, I think, is further polarization and division. For sure.

Balkanization. Because, again, people have that tribal mentality. And depending on what the narrative is, you could start to feel some type of animosity, or even hatred towards not the people necessarily who are doing the bad thing, but just like anyone who sort of looks like that or anyone who sort of shares that worldview or so on.

So, okay, you know, this, RIP Charlie Kirk, I want to say that, man. Like, freaking, as we record this, he got killed yesterday and that was awful. Horrible. Horrible. Truly horrible. I feel so bad for, gosh, his family, man.

And, you know, there, right now, there's that temptation to blame what happened on the left right right I don't even really know what the left mean like I don't know how many people that includes right but just like that I however someone interprets that it's probably millions and millions of people okay I don't know if that's like anyone who voted Democrat I don't know if that's like people who are more on like the extreme end or whatever it is but like as far as I know one person killed him I don't know we don't know the back story we don't know all of this other stuff right but there's

this there's this temptation to collectivize it all right and to blame like and then you know put it on all the politicians and all the media and anyone who supports them and so on um but that's the type of thing that probably perhaps i don't know yet i'm speculating but that's perhaps the type of thinking that even led to what took place to begin with you see what i mean so like it just keeps getting amped up and amped up and amped up and it's just um yeah it's it's balkanization and ultimately look this country is called the United States of America. The first word is united. And people are going to have their differences.

This is one of most diverse countries in the world. It's massive geographically. You've got 50 different states, thousands of different cities, people from all over, different belief systems. There is always going to be clashes. There are going to be differences. There are going to be disagreements. But at a bare minimum for the nation to hold together, people at least need to at least agree

to be civil with each other. And I think that's part of why this assassination. yesterday like hit people so hard even people who don't like you know they don't have like a personal connection but it's just like wait like in the USA people are not meant to get murdered for talking for sharing opinions for having debates like that's what we all we all do this right like discussion yeah so and at not just in the US but at a US university campus if you can't freely discuss and debate ideas on a US university campus like what hope is there for the rest of the world

that's very dark like this is someone who's going around a peaceful man who's going around doing things the right way whether you like or dislike or agree disagree with the politics that that doesn't even matter you're engaging the right way you're engaging using your voice you're not using bullets and then someone else is just like I disagree

with this person so much that or they've made me so angry I have such little control of my emotions that I'm going to you know take someone's life over two tweets you did yesterday after this horrible event one of them a lot of people are angry and upset right now and rightfully so i feel it personally i urge you to not become as callous and soulless as the enemies as your enemies during the process and then

after that taking some time off social media so i don't lose faith in humanity please be smart and hold on to your loved ones there are some demons among us god bless yeah explain those yeah so the second one you said was the one i wrote last night actually because you know these things happen and you first the first thing was like like i think about two three minutes after after charlie was was shot i um i saw something about it online like it was very real time for me so i was like wait is this even true yeah is this you know and then it turned out he was and then very quickly i saw the video i was like oh my oh my gosh and then i had you know um but then you know you're just seeing all of you're seeing the positive you're seeing the reactions of you know the the worry and

you know, pray for him and pray for his family and, you know, did he make it? Did he not? So on and so forth. But then you also see that you quickly, I started, you know, seeing the dark side of, you know, there are people celebrating it and there are people saying like, oh, he deserved this or like laughing about it or making jokes or whatever. And like, this isn't the first time I've seen this, I think, with any sort of high profile incident of this sort, you know, whether, just like when there was the Trump assassination attempt, you know, you had people's saying things like, oh, you know, like people lamenting the fact that, you know, he didn't, he didn't get killed and that type of thing. And that's just, it's just so dark. Like once someone is even

thinking that way, like they're in a really, like a really, really dark place. Because we, again, we all have our differences. We have our opinions. We have our thoughts, our beliefs. But honestly, and this is not a virtue signal, but like, never in my life have I, like, heard of like an innocent person not even die like getting sick getting hurt dying and like i feel glee i feel glee and then i go publicly and i'm sharing my glee and like that's demonic man yeah like that's so so so yeah that that's true that's truly genuinely evil i don't know how people do that and then they're still walking around believing that like you're the good guy when you're when you're celebrating something like that um you know on that note i'll comment sure i wonder because we'll see videos and picture and it's

like you see someone celebrating this this poor father getting shot and immediate you're like what is wrong with you and then you see five more of them and then it's very easy to go oh those people they all think this way yeah that's why i logged off it's it's got to be because i don't toxic i don't personally know any and we're in california i'm just we're surrounded by liberals i mean i don't know anybody who i'd go up to and say hey this you know charlie kirky got killed and they'd say yay you'd be like oh my god yeah you know i didn't agree with them but that's terrible So I wonder if it even represents a sizable minority, probably not. No, it doesn't.

But it makes you feel like. Yeah, and that's one of the things that can happen with social media. You can make 1% of the population look like 20%. Yeah. You can make 20% look like 70%. I always say, you know, the best and worst thing about social media is that everyone has a voice. Honestly, like it's kind of how I feel about democracy. Like, you know, it's like the, it's this double-edged sword where it's like, great.

We can hear from everyone and everyone can share their ideas and opinions, but all crap. But then you just realize, like, there are types of people who, in the real world, like, I never encounter them. Or if I did, I certainly wouldn't have a conversation or a relationship with them. But then online, they're free to just put out whatever, like the most heinous, the most callous, the most stupid, the most nasty things. So you kind of discover this subset of the population where, like, geez, I don't even, I don't even come across people like this in my day-to-day life.

And then it's all, you know, so that's the thing, you know, as we talk about it, it's kind of answering the question, right? Because we all see, you just said, like, you can see a few of those, and you can start to think, gosh, like, how many people, how many people think this way? How many people agree with this? Is this, like, a huge chunk of, like, my fellow citizens that I'm walking around day to day and they harbor this darkness in their hearts? And so it does exist.

Like we're seeing that it does exist. But fortunately, thank God, it's rare in the same way that, you know, people who want to go out and kill other people or rob other people or rape other people. It's rare. It does exist. And it's always existed. And it exists in every country. And it exists throughout history. But it's, it's a small minority.

And yeah, I don't know, man. I feel, I, my fear with this, because we've been. We've dealt with for a little while now, a lot of the extreme left and feeling like they have a lot of control and power for a while. Pendulum swing in the other direction. And I think a lot of people on the right are like, yay, here we are. And my warning to them is like the extreme right is either as dangerous or more dangerous. And here's why. reactions to events from the extreme right can be covered in patriotism and nationalism,

which has a lot more potential danger. There's a lot of power behind that because you can pass very tyrannical policies and laws under the guise of safety, national safety, and this is what's good for us. And so, you know, my fear is the reactions to these things. These things are terrible when they happen, but it's the reactions that I, I mean, I'm old enough to remember September 11th, watching it happen. Yep. And thankfully, I had some mentors at the time that were pointing things out to me.

And they were like, oh, my gosh, this is terrible. We got to be very careful what they pass following. And we know what they passed afterwards, the Patriot Act. Can you imagine what that would have been like in the social media age? Oh, boy. Good, great, great question. That would have been way worse. It would have been way worse.

It would have been way worse. It would have been worse. Meanwhile, we saw a lot of unity back then. Yeah. Like, everybody kind of rallied together and got a bit more patriot-like. But, yeah. But that also led to passing some laws that were just like, this massive surveillance state that is not. Yeah, in war and equally people killed, just not our people.

I think that's the problem. I mean, still terrible reaction. Yeah. Wait, do you have any fears of the reaction of this? First of all, I want to say, rightful anger and definitely. it's sorrow over what happened. It's terrible. I don't know, Charlie. I'm sure you must have lots of mutual acquaintances, though. But he was a father. He was a human being. And to my knowledge, all he did was debate people. Yeah, he did. You know, so horrible, horrible day. Crazy that it was

done so publicly as well. But the reaction to this is where I'm like, uh-oh, what's going to happen? And I think, look, this is where people just need to be smart, you know, because when people when people are angry or fearful generally they they make bad decisions especially in groups that is a truth like one of my general rules when traveling is someone who travels a lot internationally one of my general rules is just stay away from large groups of angry people right like it doesn't matter what city or what country I'm in if I'm seeing like I don't know what's going on but I'm seeing like some people I just steer clear because people people stop thinking the hive mind the group mind it's a very, very dangerous thing.

So, you know, I think, I don't know. I don't know at this stage. I do certainly have some fears. I have some fears and some concerns about what the sort of response or reaction could be. It's hard to say because, you know, people need to, this is where, again, this is where, like, faith, really, really comes in as well to me because

from a purely animalistic perspective, the norm is to seek some type of vengeance, right? Like, that's where the animal brain goes to. Even vengeance upon who?

Like, it's not even known, right? Like, you know, pick the sort of target. And that's, that's just, that's just dangerous thinking.

You know, like, one thing I, I've felt with the USA, especially over the last decade, is the temperature just needs to come down. Yeah. The temperature needs to come down. The social, the cultural, the political discourse, the level of their division is one thing. And then when it becomes hatred, hatred is what is what drove this person to, to kill, right?

I'm sure there's media manipulation that's in there like whatever view he had in his brain of who this person was to the point where like I'm going to make an assassination attempt like that's driven by hatred and this is where you know the media the media is can be so dangerous right when you're going around and the rhetoric is calling

everyone you disagree with is a Nazi and a white supremacist and is the next coming of Hitler and this like look people have freedom of speech they can say they can say what they want but every right comes with it comes with a responsibility okay so like we all have the freedom to say whatever we want to say like you know and you can't go to prison for it in this country but it doesn't mean you should it doesn't mean you shouldn't consider the impact of your words what a great point what a great point um i think about our show and we reach tens of millions of people if my ultimate goal was just to get as many people as possible listen to me without the responsibility of am I giving good advice

ooh that would be terrible and it seems like well definitely it's got to be true media it's just about how many people we get to look at us there is no like wait a minute you guys

we're influencing people's perceptions there's some responsibility there's none of that yeah and there has to be and that's true of like you know quote unquote

both sides yeah Um, it's, you know, and this is something by the way that this, this is so crazy that, um, whoever this person is, they, they killed Charlie Kirk because he was going about things the right way. It's hard to think of a better example in this country of someone who is quite literally just willing to, it's all about ideas. He's engaging. It's words. It's all about I'm going to talk to people on my side, on the other side. Anyone who wants to talk. Anyone wants to debate and so on nonviolently. It can. It's engaging. It's not. It's all about. It's all about. It's all about. I'm going to talk to talk to people on. It can. It's get feisty, it can get fiery, but it's going to stay just words. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, that line just gets, you know, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that line was just crossed in the most egregious way, in the most egregious way possible. Um, look, I've, I've said many times before. I remember that I think I first publicly said it on, um, the first time I was on Rogan, literally six, about almost six years ago to this day, 2019, September. Um, I, I said to him, you know, because we were

talking about political polarization then. And I said, look, in any situation, whether it's between individuals, whether it's between groups, it's between nations, it's a marriage, it's friendship, it's diplomacy, there are only three ways to solve any conflict. Number one, words, discussion, debate, arguments, conversations, it's number one. Number two, separation. Separation, segregation, divorce. break up, three's violence.

Those are the only options on the table. If there's a conflict, if there's a disagreement, those are the only options on the table. So I'm a huge fan of number one because if people can no longer talk and discuss and debate, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, how much they may dislike each other, whatever. If you can stay in that realm of number one, then you can avoid number two and number three, right? Sometimes maybe number two, it's like, okay, that's things are, there's no, there seems to be no pathway except, all right, we just need to go our separate ways

and not engage and not really communicate with each other. And then the third one is just, it's literally physical, physical violence. You know, one of the challenges with this is Zubi is that like if I ask you this question, I think I know what the answer is, who's easier to manipulate in whatever direction you want? A calm person

or an angry, scared person? Emotional. Angry scared person. Very easy to manipulate. So this is why I'm going to be the optimistic person in this situation right now and say that because this happened so closely to the George Void incident and we watched what media did with us then and now we're seeing it on the total opposite side I'm hopeful that some people I know there's always going to be idiots but more people will be aware and awake of what's happening I feel like you know if you you're now seeing this is the

text message I had to send to my own friends and stuff with that is like don't don't you see what they're doing to us right now the same way that they did to the other side. And because it's, if it was, if it was separated by a decade or two, it might be harder to connect them, but because it's so close, I feel like more people than ever will hopefully be aware of this where before they would be kind of asleep. That's the optimistic side. I hope for. Yeah. And I do think you're right. I do think, you know, I haven't lost so much faith in humanity that I think like, oh my gosh, this is over. You know, people are, I'm sure there people who are like civil war time or whatever i'm like i don't i don't think i have enough faith in

the good people of this country that it's not going to descend to that sort of level might there be like some individuals who do something stupid there there might be i hope there aren't um i hope that people aren't like you know someone's not going to try to retaliate in the same sort of manner in the opposite direction um but look i think I think moments like this are, it could be a good opportunity for unity in the way that you guys talked about 9-11. And I think that a rather polarized USA, at least for some time, really, really came together on that one. So now is, you know, I was happy to see social media posts from Gavin Newsom and. Barack Obama and I think even Kamala Harris, you know, sending condolences and, you know, denouncing, denouncing what happened.

I was actually very happy to see that. You know, these are not people who are, again, it's not about political agreement. That's the thing. You know, people need to get away from this idea that just because people have different ideas or different opinions that, like, they are not just, not just enemies, but enemies worthy of destruction. yeah that's so dangerous because then there's no there's no limit to that if you're just evil and anyone's a target yeah if you're evil if i think you're evil then why talk to you yeah it doesn't make any sense justified in your own mind yeah um yeah it's wild because there's so many incentives to uh press the scared angry button of course so if you're a political party you have

And you already saw this, right? Charlie Kirk gets shot. A horrible tragedy. It's so juicy for the right. And there's also, the left has tried to now pick up on the, we need to ban guns. It just becomes political fodder. And it's so enticing that I can use this. Media will use this.

You can use this to sometimes sell products, depending on what the situation is. The incentive is there because scared, angry people are really easy to manipulate. I think the smartest thing. that you did was take a break from social media. 100%. The self-awareness to be like, okay, I'm going to take a break because I see, now I'm no longer in this calm state of mind. And I don't, I know enough about myself to know that when I'm not calm, the decisions

I make are not great. That's why they, like, there's this great research on couples. Dr. John Gottman did this great research to duplicated it. Oftentimes you can't even duplicate this kind of research, but his, was duplicated. And one of the things they found is, and they experimented with couples where they had them hooked up to heart rate monitors, blood pressure, gauge, whatever, they had them live in this house. These were couples that were struggling with things. And when they saw that the couple's heart rates were going up, they were having a little bit of an argument or whatever, they would create

an excuse to separate them. Oh, wait, hold on, you guys, hold on to that conversation. The equipment isn't reading stuff or whatever. Let's separate. And they did wait. And they would wait until the heart rates came down, everything came down. Then they let them come together. and the resolution rate went through the roof. Simply because they were calm. So that's the thing that I'm like, and what social media does very well, any moment I can look at it and get pissed off.

And just get reminded of what happened. It's part of why it's so important to just be rude. It's very important to exist more in the real world than you do online. Like it's easy for me to tell when people exist more online than they do in reality because like there's this, chasm, there's this gap in perception of just, of just everything, because almost everything is

worse online than it is in real life. And I see how it affects people. Just literally two days ago, I was talking to someone who had planned a whole trip to Europe and then they canceled it based on stuff that they were seeing on social media, you know, because they kept seeing all the bad things happening in the year. And they're like, gosh, it's too dangerous to go there. And I was like, oh, like, I kind of felt sad. I was like, no, go to Europe, man. Like, you'll be fine, right? I know, I know people in the UK who are afraid to step foot in the USA. I know people in the USA who are afraid to step foot in the UK. And I understand why, because you're just seeing the worst of everything that's happening

in each place. And I'm like, no, like, it's okay. When I tell people, hey, I'm going to California to record some podcasts, you know, what are the comments? You know, be careful. We're a bull. You know what I mean? I'm like, guys, like, I'm going to be okay.

You know, like, it's really okay. Like, I'm walking around. You know, I look up down at my phone and I'm like, it's chaos. it's destruction, it's anger, it's fighting. And then I look up, you know, I'm in the airport and everyone's like, are the black, are the blacks fighting the whites? Are the whites fighting the Republicans at the throats of the, like, no, right? And I'm in L.A. and then San Francisco, you know what I mean?

Like a kind of a bit of a hotbed, right? And you're just like, no, like most Americans are just getting on and people are being nice to each other. And like, I'm just, I'm literally with my own eyes, just seeing everyone mingling and interacting and all of that. And it's just, and then you look down again, and you're like, whoa, you know. So, yeah, just people need to be cautious of that. And I know touch grass is like used too often.

It's become a kind of cliche. But there's a lot of truth. There's a lot of this truth to that. The real world is better. And even people who are online, most people act better in the real world. I've met some of the most controversial people in the world who exist on the internet. And I always get asked like, what's this person like? what's that person like?

And I'm like, everyone's nice in real life. Like, if you actually met, if you actually met him or her, like, you'd probably have like a good conversation and, you know, you wouldn't, you know, they wouldn't want to fight you or anything like that. So, yeah, and look, it's a constant temptation, especially if you're in the world of creation and media and all of that. Like, you know, we, we can all fall, we can all be tempted by some of the same incentives, right?

to it just like I'll tell you another one that happens all the time is like people just wanting to be first right so something happens and no one knows the facts yet no one knows what's true but like rather than accurate rather than people wanting to lie right let me just wait even if it's like wait and like 30 minutes for more and it's like people immediately want I want to be the first to speculate because then you get the likes and the algorithm's going to show your thing to everyone and so on and you know it it happens all the time I just I think everyone just needs to get a little get better at controlling their emotions. Does it, is it too early to ask you this? Do you think about this with your kid and how you're going to raise them in this, in this tech world and iPhone world? Yeah, I do. I thought about it before I even became a father, especially as someone who's been, I've been on social media for 21 years.

I've been on, I made my Facebook account, I think October 2004. So when it started, dude. I was like, dude, that was one of the first people on Facebook. And I was on MySpace, like, around the same year. Because, you know, I was, especially, and then with all my music stuff, like, you know, MySpace was like my big one to begin with, and then it became Facebook. So as someone who's actually heavily immersed in it and sees all the different sides of it, like I think I'm even more cautious and discerning in that regard of what is appropriate and what's not.

Yeah. So, yeah, I've definitely thought about that a lot. You in the camp, I don't know if you've heard Jonathan Haight talk about it. I'm like a huge fan of delay as long as you possibly can. 100%. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. And again, like, I think I have some advantages, like becoming a dad now because this experiment

has been running for 20 years. Yeah. So I can see. You can see the patterns. You can see the patterns. You can see the data. You can see what works, what doesn't. You can even, even just anecdotally, I know a lot of, I know a lot of children.

I see my nieces. I see my nephews. my little cousins and, you know, their friends and so on. And you can see the ones who are heavy on the screen time and the tablet time and so on and how they act and how they behave versus those who, you know, that's a very, very small part of their life. Yeah. And so to me, the answer is clear.

I'm sure it's easier said than done. I know my older siblings are going through some of that now with their teenagers. I mean, I think it's really difficult. I mean, it's what's a blessing is like you just said, is that you have all this experience that you can see. And so I think if you just don't open that can of worms, it's not as hard as you think it is. It's not hard.

My son's six. Okay. We introduced a little bit of the iPad, like around four or five. And I quickly just said, you know what? No, he doesn't need any of this at all. And the first week of, you know, him being able to use it before to not using it was a little bit. Daddy, can I use my note?

And so a week of nose, but hasn't looked back. doesn't even really realize it's not there. If we watch cartoons, we watch it together as a family in the living room or what about that and hasn't been a thing at all. I think when you let them for a long time, that's where this gets really, really difficult. So you're in a great place of...

Yeah. And I think, you know, like people with like very young kids now, like we're just more conscientious of it. And I think it's also, I think it's going to be easier by that stage because I think there will also be like a large cohort of people with the same agreed thinking. I can see how it's very difficult how if like your son or daughter

is the only one in their class who does not like the pressure must be immense to get them a smartphone or to allow them access to whatever. But actually if like a large chunk of the people around you and fellow parents aren't giving them these things then it's easier for everyone.

100%. That's a very good speculation. I have two, I have four kids, but big age gap. And with my older ones, it was like new. And so they had,

unfettered access because I thought it was like TV. Sure. Which it's not like TV, but it wasn't that obvious to me. And with my younger ones, it's very different. Very, very different approach to how it is. I agree with you. I think you're probably going to have a lot of kids. I see it already personally. My wife and I have tried to curate my son's friends based off the parents and how their views around that.

So his best friend, their parents are this, is why is the mom works at Netflix. And so they were already very close. cautious too. It's like, oh, this is so great. And so, you know, we've already had situations where we've gone on trips and stuff with them. And it's so cool to see, you know, another parents that are that aware of it. And it's just not a thing, you know, spin. And it's not, it's not a need. We know it's not a need because we all grew up without it. Totally not. 99.9% of humanity grew up without it. So it's not like food or water or something. As somebody whose business is centered around this kind of media. Yeah. And your commentary oftentimes is related to,

what's happening in the world and cultural commentary, political commentary. What keeps you centered and calm and facing in the right direction? How do you keep yourself from getting to not getting polarized or not becoming one of those people? Faith, family, fitness, hobbies, taking a break every week. I take every Sunday off social media. I've done that for many years. Just turn it off.

Yeah, yeah. Just don't use it. Don't post. Don't log in. Just a break every. seven days, even if it's just one day, like, it makes it a significant difference. Well, it feeds into the, the stat that Sal was just saying about even, like, conflict with couples.

Yeah. Like, that's what that is is you're interrupting that, you know, if you're not seeing every day, just that interruption of one day kind of probably goes, oh, okay. Yeah. And then normally, by come, after 24 hours, like, sometimes I'm hesitant to even go back. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes I'll extend it one more day. So, yeah, those things.

And then, like I said, existing in the real world and prioritizing, prioritizing the real world. There's a, there's a blur between online and real, as we know, because, you know, like, sometimes people say the internet's not real life, which is true, but it sort of is to some degree as well. But yeah, I base my decisions and my opinions and my thought more on reality and what I'm seeing. So if someone asked me, you know, what are your thoughts on? on, what are your thoughts on the USA or Americans or California or Californians or San Francisco or L.A.? It's not, my answer is not going to be based on stuff I see online. It's going to be based on my experiences and the thousands of people that I've met and spoken to

and the actual interactions I've had. And that gives much greater priority than the things I see online. Because I'll tell you what, if I'd never been to the USA before and I just judged the U.S. and the internet based off what I see on social media, I would be one of those people like, I'm not stepping foot in that country. I would. Because 90% of the insane stuff I see on the internet is from this country.

Right? Whether it's the woke TikToks or the freaking trans kids or it's like school shootings or it's like insane politics. Some of the stuff we're talking about right now. Like that's the stuff you see. That's what people internationally right now are seeing.

They're seeing this woman getting stabbed on the train. They're seeing people being shot. That's like, that's why they're afraid to come to America because they're like, I don't want to be killed. And, and yeah, and I'd say that reality is much closer to the truth than the negative filter that people are getting through their phones. And that's true. I've never been to a country that was like, I want to say like every single country I've

been to and almost every city I've been to is like better in reality than it was online. You got to know what I mean. No, I think so too. So people might have all these thoughts about this part of the world or that part, oh gosh, like whether it's Mexico or it's Saudi Arabia or it's Colombia or it's China or whatever, you know, and there's like all this fear. And then like most cases if they actually like go and visit, they're like, oh, Mexico's great. I've always like argued that logically like if it's so bad, why are millions of people staying there? That's kind of how I've always made that. vacation there.

Yeah, yeah. I'm just like, if you really thought it was that bad, don't you think nobody would be there? I'm like, there's a lot of people that, you know,

choose to live there. So, yeah, probably is not as bad. I also just think, you know, like, live, live not by fear.

Yeah. Right. So obviously take reasonable precautions and don't throw safety to, you know, don't, don't throw caution to the wind, right?

Yeah. Be street smart, have your wits about you when you go to different places and interact with people. But you don't need to just like, hide in one little corner of the globe your entire life because you're so, so, so afraid that if you

step out there, you know, something will happen. You know, there's people who they won't get on a plane because, you know, they're afraid the plane's going to crash. Strangely, they'll drive a car, which is way more dangerous. But, you know, they don't want to go anywhere. They don't want to do any. It's fear-based. So I just generally encourage people, like, I feel like young men, especially, because, like, that's when you should be like, yeah, have some freaking adventures, man. But, yeah, like, there's, the world is an interesting place. And I recognize that, you know, not everyone needs to travel to 100 different countries or go to so many places or do so many things. But, like, it's good to see different places with their own eyes and mingle with people and experience different cultures.

And I don't know anyone who's worse off. I know a lot of people who are better off for it. I don't know anyone who's worse. I love that you're saying that. And I think the key with this is not. is realizing that you don't always know better, that you can be manipulated or you can be fear-based, it's like when we give advice to people with diet. And I say to them, hey, one of the best things you can do is not eat processed foods. Well, why is that? It's hard to stop eating

them. So just know that, right? If you know that, then just stay away from them versus, you know, believe in the lie that, no, I'll know when to stop. Like, it's not going to, like, this just doesn't work that way. So it's like, why should you be off social media or why should you not get yourself into these news spins where, okay, you saw the thing, now leave it alone. Why do I got to keep staying in there? Because you know that you, there's an illusion of control that you think you have over yourself and your decisions and your mental state. And the reality is you don't have as much control as you think. So just don't expose yourself for a little while. Give yourself a break. Watch what happens. It's actually one of the number one ways people reduce anxiety is to turn off.

Turn it's the process food of communication, right? Yeah. It is. It's most of it, most of it's junk. It doesn't mean there's not some good stuff in there, but most of it. It's not just what you eat. It's right. Yeah.

Crazy. You listen to. It's what you see with your eyes. Well, do be always a pleasure having you on the show, man. Yeah, I do. I really, I really appreciate you stop by, my friend. And it was great being on your show earlier. So, and congratulations on being a dad.

Yeah, I do. Thank you so much, man. It's awesome. You got it. So happy to see you again. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy

and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aestetic, nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body

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