Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2706: The Best 3-Day a Week Back Routine

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: The Best 3-Day a Week Back Routine. (3:13) Winning with high-protein snacks. (22:15) The dark side of dating apps. (24:47) When you are jacked, they will find you. (35:11) Kids are sponges. (38:54) The Schafer’s Disney Halloween Bash. (40:55) Reliving going to Haunted Houses. (45:18) Would you buy the Tesla phone? (49:48) The science behind Fatty 15. (51:40) #ListenerLive question #1 – Is there a way to hybridize some MAPS programs where I can do shorter workouts during the week, and do a longer full-body workout on the weekend when I have more time? (54:37) #ListenerLive question #2 – How can I lose fat and get the scale to move? (1:03:14) #ListenerLive question #3 – Advice on programming and nutrition to prep for my goal towards getting to stage-ready. (1:10:46) #ListenerLive question #4 – What are the best ways to gain lean body mass? (1:24:00) Related Links/Products Mentioned Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: [e-mail] Visit Crisp Power for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code MINDPUMP10 for 10% OFF. Give your snack game a serious upgrade. Crisp Power Protein Pretzels deliver super crunchy and delicious snacks that are up to 28g of protein, low carb, zero sugar and high in fiber! ** Visit Fatty15 for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** You can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription Starter Kit with code MINDPUMP ** October Special: MAPS GLP-1 50% off! ** Code GLP50 at checkout. ** Mind Pump Store Mind Pump #1972: Back Building Master Class Mind Pump #2122: Deadlift Masterclass Tech has changed. Dating? It's complicated. — Harvard Gazette Tesla released 'Pi Phone' with Starlink capability? THE SCIENCE - fatty15 Visit MASSZYMES by biOptimizers for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MINDPUMP10 at checkout for 10% off any order. ** Mind Pump # 2690: The NEW DIET Everyone Is Using For Fat Loss Muscle Mommy Movement Mind Pump # 2180: Is Powerlifting Beneficial for Women? Mind Pump # 2560: How to Break Free from Destructive Body Image Issues Mind Pump #1860: Fourteen of the Best Foods for an Amazing Physique Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Dan Bilzerian (@danbilzerian) Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump, Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we had live callers call in, and we got to coach them on air for their fitness and health. So people call in. We have a good time with them, but this was after the intro.

Today's intro was 50 minutes long. In the intro, we talk about fitness, we talk about family life, current events. It's always a good time. By the way, if you want to be coached by us live on our podcast, send us your question, send it to live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is crisp power. These are delicious pretzels that are very high in protein.

A single bag, 200 calories, 26 grams of protein. they have lots of amazing flavors like cheddar, cinnamon, they have flaming flavor, lots of different flavors, very delicious, high in protein. Go check them out. Go to crisppower.com. Use the code mind pump 10, get 10% off. This episode is also brought to by Fatty 15. This is a fatty acid that has been shown to lower inflammation, improve insulin sensitivity, essentially make you more healthy. It's not an omega-3 fatty acid either. It's actually, a saturated fat with health benefits. So if you want to lower inflammation,

potentially improve your body's ability to utilize glucose as energy through improved insulin sensitivity, go check them out. Go to fatty15.com. That's fatty15.com forward slash mind pump. On that link, if you go mind pump as a code, you can get 15% off their 90-day subscription starter kit.

Also, this month, MAPS, GLP1 is half off. This is a workout program that includes, of course, a workout, diet advice, supplement advice, lifestyle advice for people who are using a GLP1. So if you're using Ozempic, Wiggovi, Trezepotides, sermaglutide, if you're using those want to maximize fat loss, you want to keep your muscle. You don't want to lose muscle. You don't want your metabolism slow down.

This is the program for you. It's specifically designed for you. Go check it out. Go to Maps, gLP1.com. Use the code GLP50 for the 50% off discount. All right, real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not you? show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over

at mindpump store.com. I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to mindpustor.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. T-shirt time. And it's T-shirt time. Aw, shit, Doug.

You know it's my favorite time of the week. Six winners this week. Three for Apple Podcast. Three for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winners are. Jade Need Nickname. Xbox 360 Fun. Hefe of the Hill.

And for Facebook, we have Robert Klein, Bo Shakespeare, and Juan Soto. All six of you are winners in the name I just read to iTunes at Mind Pumpmedia.com. Include your shirt size and your shipping address. And we'll get that shirt right out to you. All right. Let's talk about back training. When we refer to the back,

we're talking about a lot of different muscles. The erectus spinae, the Littissimus Dorsey, rhomboids, the trapezius, teres, major, minor, just to name some, it's a huge area, huge body part. We're going to talk about training your back. One of the most aesthetic body parts, also one of the most functional. You need a strong back if you want to be amazing, strong, and functional.

Let's get into it. Do you remember how old you were when you really started doing the big gross motor movements for your back? Because I know I was like very much so machine, seated row kid, lap pull down for a long time before I got into like barbell rows and deadlifting and T-bar row and like these big motor movements. Do you remember how old or did you get, I know you got into like some of those big lifts early, were you pretty early? I was young, man.

I was young. So I, because I got so infatuated early on and I got into strength training in the mid-90s when I was 14. So this was like during the reign of Doreen Yates. and before him was Lee Haney. But right when I was, like, really getting into it, it was Dorian Yates. And he was known for having this massive back. So I'm into it.

I'm reading about how important the back is. And then I encountered some older power lifters early in my career that convinced me to squat and to deadlift. And the deadlift was a natural lift for me, right out the gates. So I was really blessed, Adam, to just write out the gates value compound lifts and value these big gross motor movements. But I know a lot of people. People don't early on.

And I know the back is, it's behind you. You don't see it. Yeah, Justin, you guys were more snatch in the front. Yeah, we didn't emphasize it as much. And, again, my exposure was through sports and training together as a team. And so it was very bench heavy, overhead press heavy. And then we would do power cleans. And so you'd still have to deadlift it off of the ground into like a squatty clean.

So I did some decent weight with that. But, like, we did dumbbell rows, and that was about it. Honestly, that's, like, my full exposure between that and pull-ups. So it took a while for me to really build and develop grip and back. Yeah. It's one of those, it's an interesting, so it's funny because in strength training, we refer to body parts as if it's one muscle. It's like legs, you know.

Back is a lot of muscles. Yeah. There's a lot. It's everything together. Yeah, it's like one of those areas. You know, they talk about bodybuilding, talks about hitting the body or body parts from different angles. That's got to be the body part that that's most true for, right? Because you have, I named them all in the beginning and more, right?

There's so many muscles back there. And also, I mentioned how functional is. Like a strong back connects to strong hips. That's very important for athletics. Strong hips and back, I can't think of a sport that that doesn't benefit. it. And in bodybuilding or kind of physique presentation sports, remember, they value what once meant you were athletic and functional. So it's become distorted over the years because they don't ask bodybuilders or physique presentation athletes to do anything. But the original kind of were the

roots of what they consider to be aesthetic, right, a strong back. I mean, that comes from truth, which is like if you have a week back, I mean, look, here's your evidence. The most often injured area of the body is the back. In particular, the lower back. This is the place most people get hurt or have pain. So it's an incredibly important area to train. And then aesthetically speaking, all physique presentation sports will tell you that the competition is won when the competitors turn around. This is true for men and women. So you'll see this in even bikini. And yes, the glutes are important, but the back is almost, if not equally important, also for women. It makes you look fit or makes you not look fit.

It can make you for man look powerful or not look so powerful. So it's a very important area and there's a lot of confusion sometimes around back training like what's important, what's not important. There's a lot of confusion in particular around an exercise like a deadlift.

You'll hear sometimes people and this really annoys me. People say, well, it's not really a back exercise. It's a hip movement. It doesn't really target the lats and you know, everything's kind of isometric and when you're holding the weight up or whatever, but anybody who has experience with deadlifting

will tell you, deadlift develops a well-developed back, not just a strong back, but a very, very well-developed back. Well, you've set the table, I think, or we've set the table on this podcast for quite some time now

promoting isometrics and all the incredible studies that surround the benefits of that. And you will not find a movement that is a greater isometric for the back. Like, you just, The load is so high. Yeah, you're not, even if you're a really strong barbell rower, seated rower, lap pull down, dumbbell rower, you're not doing no 500 pounds.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Unless you're someone very, very rare, but most people aren't doing more than 200 pounds. And yet a lot of guys can deadlift three, four, five hundred pounds. And so, yeah, think of that, that isometric contraction with 500 pounds is just the response to that is insane. Well, for most people, this isn't true for everybody, but generally speaking, because there are people who could squat more than they deadlift, but generally speaking, the heaviest lift you'll ever do in your entire life when you do consistent strength training if you practice all the big lifts is the deadlift. So if you were to take 10 people or 100 people and you had them strength trained for 10 years, and with good programming,

traditional strength training, and they had to lift the most possible weight they could with any lift. Probably eight or nine out of ten of them would be the deadlift. So it's like, why would you not do this one exercise that's going to allow you to lift the most amount of weight? And does that have value?

Absolutely. Just be able to hold that much weight has tremendous value. So dead lifts are, and what's cool about this is that deadlifts are now popular, but there was a while there when nobody was deadlifting, which was just absolutely.

absolutely wild to me because it's also super functional. You get really strong at a deadlift and you can really bulletproof your low back. And then the carryover, this is the wild part for me. My favorite example of this is a personal example with Adam. This is my favorite, favorite example. Because I've seen this. I knew this would happen. Like if you asked me, what do you predict is going to happen out of this?

I would have probably guessed properly. But literally on the show, if you go back far enough in MindPumps episodes, we've been on air for 10 years. So this was probably eight years ago, I would say. say, maybe nine years ago? Nine years at very beginning. At the very beginning, right? Adam, and I'll tell your story, but I'd love for you to add for it. Physique competitor, jacked, became a pro, rarely ever deadlifted, but did all the other great

lifts, had a great physique, didn't have a weak back. It's like your back was your weak body part, decided to just get strong of dead lifts. You essentially eliminated most of the back exercises, went back to those other back exercises months later, and were stronger at all of them. Oh, significantly stronger. It was the wildest thing I'd ever seen to, because law specificity is so important in lifting weights. Yes. Understanding that, meaning like, if you practice a certain lift, that's the best way to get strongest at that lift.

And that really applies to most all lifts. The difference here was, okay, so based off of that, knowing that I had 10 years, over 10 years of doing an exercise, like, and I love seated row. I used to love to do seated row. It was one of my favorite lives. I used to start all back exercises or back days with a seated row. And I could pull a lot of weight doing that. To eliminate that out of my routine for six, eight months, it was quite some time. It was almost a year to just focus on the deadlift.

I expected to come back and see. Which would be reasonable. Right. See somewhat of a decline, right? And to hit a PR the first time I grabbed that seated row after not, it blew my mind. But granted, I went from a guy who started just learning how to deadlift at 200-something pounds and worked my way all the way to 550-pound deadlift. And so I definitely got strong.

And my back looked different. It looked like a different back completely. I've always had a narrow waist, wide shoulders. And so to your point, I don't think I was ever told, oh, you have a small or a weekback. No, I think it was one of your better bodybook. Yeah, it was aesthetically, it looked good for showing as far as what they look for that V-taper. but the thickness of my back changed completely changed and just my overall strength was wild to see that

and I have some pictures I wish I wish I kept a lot I got a before and after I did have a good before and after if you go deep enough back I think on my Instagram page maybe even that old old top podcast but I didn't go into it I didn't go into it with that intention I just wanted to get strong a deal in fact it was more of a fun competitive thing with you I remember we used to always talk trash back and forth when we first met.

There's only going to get a head on you. And you were so strong on the deadlift. And I was like, you know, and you're always making the case for what an important movement was. And being honest, I had neglected that lift for a very long time. Admittedly, I've always been the guy who I don't really care how much I squat, deadlift with that. I just cared about what I look like. And you really convinced me to put effort into building my strength there. And so I just went on a kick and really just try to compete with the numbers.

Like, how strong can I get doing this? And the outcome of that was the aesthetics that I got from it was incredible. You know, what's cool about this, too, is this is a body part or area that is very important for trainers and everyday clients. Yeah. This is near the top, if not at the top of the priority list when you get a brand new client. So you get somebody who's deconditioned. Yeah, it's very correctional. And you, yes, you are like, for sure, we're going to strengthen your back.

We're going to help you with scapular retraction and stability. I'm going to help you with lumbar stability. I'm going to make your back strong because even though you don't care about looking jacked or whatever, you just want to be more fit and healthy. If I get your back strong, you are stronger. If I get your back strong, your quality of life improves dramatically.

So it's interesting because it's not only like this important aesthetic body part, but it was also like shoulders are an important. You walk better, you move better. You have to posture. You guys have to explain, though, why that is because of, it directly combats all the things that you do all day long, right? So, like, we are so anteriorly, yeah, we're so anteriorly driven. So just going about your day and your life, you're going to get some shoulder, peck, you know, quad. You're going to get a lot of the muscles on the front of your body working because we do everything in front of us.

And so because the back is so neglected, humans in general kind of have this. That's right. rounded, you know, which is why when you look at somebody who's 80 years old that has an exercise, they have that closed in, shrimp look, walker type of, they didn't just get that way overnight. That's 70 years of not training the posterior side. So to your point, the reason why it's, it's so unbelievable and a staple for people who don't even care about the aesthetics, but just want to feel good, move good. It became the staple of my training. It was like, everybody trained back.

Like, I didn't care what your goal was. And a lot of my programming was really centered around that because I recognize like, you know, my, most my clients, everybody wanted to lose some body fat. Everyone cared about looking a little bit. That wasn't their, most people, most clients that I got were, I just want to feel better. I want to get rid of this chronic pain.

And because of that, and you see how much training the back, the posterior chain does for that, you quickly, as a trainer, if you've trained enough people, you quickly realize, oh, wow, this needs to be a corner. What's wild is neck, shoulder pain, low back pain, upper back tension. Like, you go to the, you go get a massage, where do they press on that you get relief? It's almost always traps or back. Yeah, you know, oh yeah, really work on my back.

These are people who are sedentary, okay? Why is that? There's a lot of dysfunction back there. Shoulder pain oftentimes comes from a scapular dysfunction or back weakness. Okay, neck pain, back. That's a back issue. Of course, low back. We know that.

Knee pain sometimes comes from a weak back. So it's a very important area. And then aesthetically speaking, if you want to look more fit, one of the fastest ways to do that is to develop your back. If you want to look leaner, one of the best places to start is to develop your back. It has this profound effect on your aesthetics. It's one of the most important areas that you train.

And so workout programming, always important support for the whole body. But because the back is so complex, because there's so many different moving parts, programming can be more complex with the back than it can be with other areas. I would say the hips are kind of up there as well, the posterior chain in general. But when you think of like back training, it's not complete unless you involve two or three movements. For lower body, you could do deep squats, good technique, and you're probably not going to develop any major imbalances. I'm not saying that's perfect, but you're going to get some good hamstring development

quad. You're going to get all that, you know, glutes in there. Back training, I can't pick just one exercise. There's typically three at least that are needed to complete the workout program because of the complexity of the back. And so what I want to do, and you guys don't even know what I wrote up, you're seeing it right now. This would be for me a good general three-day-a-week routine for back for somebody.

So somebody who's like, look, this is a priority for me. I want to develop my back. I want to get a really strong, well-developed back muscles, lats, ramboyds, low back, the whole deal. Here's what a routine would look like, generally speaking, for this person. And I'll kind of go through and talk about my rationale. So it's three days a week. Day one is deadlifts and close grip pull-down. So deadlifts, you're doing low reps.

Deadlifts are one of those exercises. You can do high reps with deadlifts. But they really lend themselves well to low reps. They just do. So you're doing four sets of three reps and you're picking a weight you could probably do five or six with. That's what you're doing three with. So you're not going, you're not maxing out. And then close grip pull downs are really good at targeting the lats.

You get a good stretch at the top. And so with something like that, 10 to 12 reps. Then you skip a day or two. You go to your second workout. Now you're doing seated rows. I like seated rows. You could also do barbell rows. Why didn't I put barbell rows on day two?

Because you deadlifted on day one. So I'm just kind of giving you a little bit of a peek into programming. If you did deadlifts two days later, supporting a barbell for barbell rows might not be a good idea for some people, just because the lumbar spine, the lumbar muscles might be a little fatigue. So seated row, we're going to do three sets, 15 reps, now we're doing higher reps. And then we're going to do pullovers. I love pullovers. This is more of a lot isolation exercise.

You're doing three sets of 15 reps. Day three would be one arm dumbbell rows, three sets of eight reps. and then wide grip pull-down. So another pull-down movement, a little wider grip, just because it involves a scape a little differently, a little bit of different shoulder function,

three sets of eight reps. So that's kind of good general routine. What do you guys think about that? Do you guys have anything you want to add? I have a comment on how much I love day one. The single best pump I've ever had in my life on my back was doing heavy deadlifts like that.

So working in the three to five rep range, followed by a lap pulldown and it's the most full I've ever felt my entire back. Like I just, up into that point before I had deadlifted, I had never felt a full back pump at one time until

I did that back to back right there. Until I did a heavy, heavy four or five sets of deadlifts followed by lat pull downs and it just feels like it's the most incredible. It's like someone took a bicycle tire pump and just, it's just the most, If you're listening to this and you've never done those in combination like that,

heavy deadlifts like that, followed by a lap pull down, it is the most ultimate feeling. I like it. I think the day three, like the wide grip pull down. Sometimes I might do a pull-up, you know, with a wide grip for that to replace, but it's pretty much the same action. Now, you would probably, I'm sure, Justin, involve some kind of rotation in this for the functional component. Yeah, it's usually in the one-arm rows with the dumbbells. I try to add a bit of rotation with those.

just to get that kind of function. Yeah, I like that. I like what you're saying. Less bodybuilding, more functional. Although, not, I mean, look. I mean, I'm not above this, though. Yeah. That's a fun workout.

Well, you're still getting at least with the one-arm dumbbell row. Some rotation. You're getting some anti-rotation and at least controlling and stabilizing those muscles that are so important to that component. And you could totally do that. I used to do that where some weeks I would be very strict and I would be more anti-rotation.

Other weeks, I would actually intentionally rotate in the row. I think there's a lot of benefits. That's actually a great topic. We haven't talked about that a long time. I remember I used to see the controversy online a lot about that of people critiquing dumbbell rows as if one was right and one was wrong. And it's like, no, they both are incredible exercises. And depending on your desired outcome, you do that.

So if you want to emphasize anti-rotation or the ability to keep your body from rotating and the muscles required to stabilize like that. You keep yourself in a very fixed, solid, flat position in that back. And if you want to incorporate some of those rotating muscles, then you actually intentionally kind of saw and row through the movement. And when one's not right or wrong or better than the other, they both are incredible exercises. And so that's a way you can get strong at those.

You start the lawnmower with one pool. Do people even have that anymore? Is that even a lawnmower anymore? I mean, I have one for a weed whacker, and it does take. you know a lot of that that tension yeah remember that meme it still exists if you get gas powered

what was that meme it said something like like some guys like I started my neighbor's lawnmower with one pool I totally flexed on it yeah that's that is a flight yeah it is too chopping wood with one swing yeah that's a good one so hey this so are one of our partners the the protein pretzel by the way these last three seconds

in the studio yeah we just got into the box of these New flavors. I like the cinnamon. So this is cinnamon crunch. Doug has over there, what is that one? Flaming Crunch and cheddar. And cheddar. And they're all plant-based.

If you can't do dairy, whatever. Here's the macros on this bag. So this is like crazy. They're making snacks like this. The macros are ridiculous. 200 calories. So this bag's 200 calories. Seven grams of fat.

15 grams of carbs. 26 grams of protein. This has 26 grams of protein in this bag. I mean, I'm here for this type of stuff because we talk a lot. They taste. We talk a lot about how difficult it is for people to consistently hit their protein intake. And we're now at a place with the market is spoken up. And you see a lot of these products now popping up that they've got 20, 30 grams of protein.

And if you just have a cupboard that has all these types of things, then the excuse of snacking used to kill my clients. In fact, I came out and said on this podcast a long time ago that, you know, I used to tell clients that snacking is a made-up word. It's something that's what we call an incomplete meal. And it's true. It's like you eat one, you eat a snack many times and it's just all carb or it's all fat. It's like it's hard to find a snack that is complete. And these snacks now or these companies are creating this, it's like, man, if I just have a bunch of this stuff in my cupboard, then even when I'm in not the mood to make a meal and I grab a snack like that, I can still stay on. pace for hitting my daily protein thing.

Well, here's what's cool about that. You hit your protein targets. And yes, it's still considered a processed food. And yes, those are still engineered to be really tasty. That's what they're all like. These also are engineered to taste really tasty. Here's the thing about protein, though. Even though it comes in a pretzel and it's cinnamon flavor or flaming, you know,

and cheddar, you'll still find this will hit satiety much faster. Yeah, because the protein. Yes. It's like you talk about this the other day about meat turkey. It's like you're not going to overeat. beef jerky. You can eat one of those little bags and you're like those stuff. So if I eat one bag of chips that was this big, for sure I'd want two more. Yeah. For sure. You eat one bag of that with 26 grams of protein. You're pretty good. Yeah. It's, it's satiates you. Yeah.

Which is, uh, which I like, which is probably one of the reasons why they don't typically put a lot of protein in snacks. Because they're like, we're not, they're not eating a ton of them. I have counterproductive. It's expensive and then it's also counter counter to people eating that's such a good point. I got to read you guys a post that I saw on X about dating apps. And I thought it was app i saved it and i thought it was so i've heard some again like i'm pretty clueless because i've been on any of those things but uh i've heard some i think vicky was telling me this morning about there's some app that like were women can just bash on like dates they've had about men and i was just like wow that one got toxic at all did you hear that it got hacked no yeah dude so women were

going on they're like don't date this guy he's bad and bad or whatever right right somebody hacked it and released these, like, who these women were, whatever, which is like, that's messed up, too. Yeah. But, oh, my gosh. So there's another, there's another, I didn't know you guys were going to talk. I wish I would have known because Katrina, uh, Katrina's brother had some stuff on, on it.

There's an app and I forget what it's called, but it's designed where girls can go on there and talk about, like, these guys, there's a name. There's a name for the, you don't know what it is. Yeah. Is that, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, still the tea. Yes, that's right. That's, that's what, uh, yes, he told me. These apps are terrible.

So I remember when dating, you know what you hear something crazy? Back in 1997, remember the internet was, you know, dial up and all that stuff. The assistant manager at the gym that I worked at, I'm not going to say his name

because he listens to the show, but he wanted to go into business to start a dating website back then. There were no apps. And he's talking about this is the future of dating and it's going to make it so much better and you're going to have more opportunities and people are going to meet,

you know, be able to meet their partner. I remember hearing him, I had no interest in investing in this company or whatever. But I remember listening to him going like, well, that makes sense. Like now you have the opportunity to meet more people, to talk to more people. Dude, check. So now we have data on what data apps have started.

And this guy wrote one of the best posts on it. So I'm going to read you what he wrote. He says, this image is a snapshot of a civilizational algorithm at work. It's showing you how when you digitize and scale a human selection process, you don't just reveal biology, you amplify. it into a self-organizing system, what you're looking at is the shape of sexual selection under near-perfect information. Offline, this is brilliant. Women's selectivity is tempered by friction, limited pools, community oversight, reputational cost, time restraints, men and women

meet through networks, so even average men, quote unquote average men, meaning most men, can still find partners because they bring other non-quantifiable assets to the table. status within a small group, familiarity, trust, like, oh, my friends know you, they know you're a nice guy, that kind of stuff. Online, all those buffers are gone. Apps give women a real-time global leaderboard of male attractiveness status

and proceed value. Their evolved, trip off this, their evolved filter, which is supposed to protect them from pregnancy and resource risk, suddenly has a fire hose of data. It goes into hyper mode, collapses subtle distinctions, and produces the kind of distribution you're seeing

because he posts this chart that shows exactly what you're saying. Yes. That 1% of the men get 90% of the attention. And the rest of the men are totally invisible. Yes. So here's what it shows. Hypergamy, hypergamy,

gone systemic. A small fraction of men capture almost all the attention. Everyone else becomes invisible. Winner take all dynamics. Dating markets behave like TikTok in capital markets now. If you go viral, the rest flat line. Collapse of the middle. The average male disappears from sex.

market, the way the middle class disappears from the economy under globalization, a little controversial there, but whatever. Feedback loop, the more this dynamic accelerates, the more each side's strategy hardens. You ready for this? Men get more desperate or check out. Women get more selective, but less satisfied. It's a negative sum equilibrium. If you strip away morality, what you're seeing is nature's base code exposed and scaled. It isn't women being unfair or men being victims. It's an emergent system where old evolutionary heuristics collide with new technological conditions. It produces exactly this distribution.

So it's a chart that shows the distribution of how women are picking men. And then what men do is they're just going, like, do what I can. And then the men at the top, here's what's crazy about this, the men who are getting all the attention are becoming less and less likely

to become monogamous. Of course. Because they're getting all this attention. So it literally destroys. It's destroying dating. It's destroying relationships. because technology is, it's amplifying what women do

and it's amplifying what men tend to do when they have that kind of selection. Wow. How crazy is that? It's crazy. It's wild. It's funny because you get a lot of people that praise it because they,

they met their spouse or significant other on a dating app and it worked for them. I know my mom, that's how my mom met her husband. And like, but, you know, I kind of wondered what this would look like when you played it out, five, 10, 15 years. And what's happened is like, you're right. like the 1% has rose to the top and they have all the selection in the world

and then everybody else just got godled up. I know guys who are six foot tall, make, you know, well over six figures. You know, they're in their now early 40s. And they just have, they just pick whoever they want. They don't care. Oh, I have a big one, right? They write, like, they make sure they let other women know,

like, no, he's not really like six foot. You know, give a heads up. I have a buddy who's Who's our age And he's not married And you know He'll have five dates a week Yep

Yeah It's lined up Because he's got those Yeah But unhappy and lonely That's the part Everybody's unhappy and lonely That's the part

That's crazy about it But yet who I mean what At least not I don't remember anybody When we were growing up That could say They dated five different girls

In the same week Before something like this happened No you had to be You had to be a celebrity Yeah Yeah Or you had to be like In the nightclubs

Every night you know, for something like that to even possibly happen. And so, you know, naturally that would never happen. But now it's so easy that he just picks his phone up and he can literally book five dates. Watch this. Doug, if you can use AI or the search, say, what do the, say what percentage of men in America

are over six feet tall make over $150,000 a year and don't have children and are in their late 20s? And let's see what that comes up. It's a very small percentage. And so what's happening is women who are naturally selected, they're supposed to be selected. Which, by the way, tends to be like the top three things that most of them, not all, obviously, are looking for someone those heights. You know what's looking for someone that makes decent, decent amount of income and maybe not have kids yet.

Yeah, and it's like, watch what happens when he, when he, now, I'm not even putting in. You didn't throw six-pack abs or fit in there either. No, you put in there, that, you put 0.2%. I remember I did that to my wife once and make a few. I was like, hey, baby, they called Rarama. You're really killing it. It backfired. Oh, yeah, she was so bad.

What do you think you are? dude. What does that say, Doug? Did you pull it up? Yeah, it's less than 2%. Less than 2%. Well, 2.3%. 2.3%. Yeah. And that's not even throwing in the fit part. No. You're including guys that are not fit. You throw in their fit. You throw up under 15% body fat. You don't have to put rip. Just put under 15% body fat. That cuts that big time. So the, and the reason why this happens is women are supposed to be selective. This is not a bad thing that they're selective. They make men kind of present themselves and shape up or whatever. But when they have this, like

the guy said, fire hose of access, now you have well, this is now the dude that can date 15 women. And then other really good guys who would probably be very happy getting with and marrying and whatever and having kids with, doesn't even get your attention. Well, you have a celebrity example

of this. We've talked about this kind of off air about what we're watching in real time happen to Dan Belzerian. Yeah. I mean, you like now he's talking monogamy and so with that. But it's like the guys had so much access to all the, like, the 1% supermodel girls that imagine trying to settle down after that. It's just unbelievably difficult. Even though I think he believes that that's the right thing to do and that's where he wants to be.

I think he, didn't he get married? Did he actually? I think he did get married. Did he? No way. I think so. I mean, I don't follow him closely enough. I just remember when that came out where he started talking about monogamy, he's not married.

Okay. So he isn't. Maybe he was just talking about it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, imagine how difficult that is. So it's like, in a sense, both people are losing out. Which is weird, though, because don't you guys feel like I don't hear that from people.

And maybe it's just because I'm talking to the people that it worked for. You know, like, do you hear, I don't hear a lot of like, even my buddy who I'm describing. And so that, he's not complaining about the app. Yeah. He's not complaining about it. I see it from the outside looking in going like, you know what, too. I know who you're talking about. Yeah.

He's a great car. Yeah. Well, yeah, he fits. He's like six foot, good looking. Poor guy, though. Poor guy, because as time goes on, you know, he's going to look back and be like, oh, man, what did I do? Yeah. You know? Yeah. So, I mean, so what's the answer, though, right? So meet people around you. Meet people through friends. Meet people through community. Go outside. Talk to people. Yeah. You know, that's the way to do it. I think all this is just pointing more towards what I believe, what I think is the pendulum is going to swing back. I think, you know, community. Especially with the eye. Yeah, did you guys hear about that new app that service? You know, like, dog walking's been a thing for a long time, right? Like, you can get online and find some people to walk your dog with that. Like, human walking is a service now. Like, but that just shows, but that highlights so how much we're thirsty. You're not talking about the weird kind in San Francisco.

No, no, no, no, no, not that game. Like, I've seen that. Literally, that's how much, that's how thirsty we are for connection with other people. They sign up to walk together. Yeah. That people want to do. do that, which, by the way, I've told this to our in-house trainers and our trainers that we coach and mentor and stuff like that. If you're a trainer, I think this is such the move right now.

Walking groups. Yes. It's starting a walking group for free where you just meet with people once a week or a couple times a week at 7 a.m. whatever time works and offer the service at free and turn it into a big community thing. And if you do it for free, watch how many people you can get to do it. And then once you got that many people for free, watch how many people convert into clients. a change subject because I see a note up here and reminded me of something. I think you wrote this up there, Justin, so I want to know what you have to say. But yeah, I took my daughter to a football game

on Saturday and we pull into the parking lot. It was at one of the colleges here. Yeah. And she's like football. She's just hanging out. We're friends, right? But we pull in the parking lot and I'm waiting for her friends to show up. So while we're in the parking lot, I see these kids organizing something. And what it was is they were organizing this boy to ask this girl to homecoming. So her friends kind of brought

over there and he comes out with this big sign. A dude's dressed up in this costume and they do this big elaborate thing, you know. Which I don't, we didn't really do that when we were kids, right? We just asked. Yeah. Did you guys, did you guys do that high school? Some people that, you know, yeah, it wasn't really like a huge thing I was now. It's just like everything else.

Like there's the push present. There's this present. There's that present. I don't know. I feel like things get invented. So when we were, when we were kids, Sadie Hawkins was a big event like that. That's what a girl invent. And because the girls were creative like that.

So girls would always make, like, I remember my girlfriend made, like, this elaborate candy, candy bar, like, poem asking me thing. It was like this big cardboard thing. And, like, all the candy bars were part of the poem or whatever about that to ask me to the dance, you know? So, girls used to do that, at least when we were in high school, when the girls asked the guys. So much more thoughtful. Yeah. No, really. I'm terrible.

I'm sure as time has gone on, the new generation of, you know. Well, because they film them. They were actually filming it. So I know they're going to post it. I saw these kids filming it too. Well, yeah. And it's funny because my son went and I was bringing it up because he went stag and his other friends did too. And they were just like over it because of a lot of this stuff like with women's expectations like these girls.

Like it again, this is really unappealing to young men. You know what's crazy about that? You're talking about you. go hang out. You're talking about Ethan, right? Yeah. He's a good-looking, jacked, tall kid. Yeah.

He's actually a very good-looking tall. I mean, he's a gymnast, at top level. So he, and you're telling me he's sick of? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, and, I mean, he had a girlfriend early on, like, when he went to school, this new school, and then, you know, they parted ways amically, but it's still, like, I guess there's, like, chatter and all, and so he's dealing with, like, you know, once one girl says

something. Then all the girls, they think of, you know, he's a certain way or whatever. And he's just like over the drama of it all. And it's like, I'm like, yeah, you don't have to do that. I was like, your best solution right now, just focus on getting jacked. They always, always pay attention to that. Always. They could say whatever they want, but when you're jacked, they will find you. And he's like, okay, dad. It's like, they rebranded at Hokko, too. I was like, what? Why they always got rebrand everything. So homecoming, they call Hokko. Why?

I have no idea, but that's just what they do. Sure. Yeah. Shorter, you know, it's, I guess. You know, I have such good advice for a young man, too, because, like, actually working out the discipline involved, the structure, you're taking your focus off of, like, all the whatever, you know, because you're young, you're only 16. Like, you're probably better off focusing on that anyway.

And I think girls don't really realize that to later to kind of chill out with all that stuff. Like, and so I think it's good for, for him to just, like, be focused, like work on your sport, do good in school, get jacked. Like, they'll find, the good one will find you. Yeah, do your homework that's like trying to, do your homework, work out, get a job as a young teenage boy, like, you're cool. Stay focused and discipline. He's going to be on the, on the path. That's so great.

Dude, I got a funny, I told Adam this morning, I got to tell you, Justin, the funniest thing happened yesterday. So my niece, Jessica's niece, now lives with us, right? She's going to go into college down here. 18-year-old kid, love her, love her to death. And so she was going to go to school down here. We're like, hey, you can come stay with us. We have an extra room. So she just moved in, and her parents brought her down and then left.

So yesterday was her first full day with us without her parents, right? So anyway, her family and her niece are totally secular. There's no, no religion, no faith, no nothing whatsoever. Obviously, our house is very, you know, we're very faith-filled home. And so Jessica, just going to have this conversation, we're like, look, like, We live the way we do, but let's not press it on her because she's a teenage kid. Like, let's just, we'll love on her like we do, and let's just not try to talk to her about. If she asks questions, that's fine, but I don't want to push her away and I don't want to feel like she's, you know, out of place or something like that, right?

So we had this big conversation. So yesterday was the first day her parents were gone. So we're all sitting around the coffee table and we're making party favors because we're getting ready for my son's, my four-year-old is going to turn five for his birthday. So we're making him. And again, we just literally had this conversation. So she's sitting there making party favors. My son, Aurelius walks up to her. He puts his hands on his hips.

Her name is Liberty. And he goes, so Liberty, do you know Jesus? I'm like, oh, my God, what's happening? He starts evangelizing her. And I'm looking at, I'm like, what is happening right? The biblical stories that he knew were like, I filmed half of it because I couldn't believe what he was saying. He's like, did you know Samson?

He killed 400, like all these Philist. Steens with the jawbone of a dog. He's, I'm like, I didn't even know he knew this stuff, but he's like, totally evangelizing. He reminds me a lot of my godson and of my buddy. So you have to tell me, is he, is he just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Or can he sit in the car and, like, be silent? Oh, he loves to ask questions and talk. Yeah, so he loves.

Like, nonstop talking. Yeah, yeah, that's how my godson is. Were you guys up, you guys weren't at Disneyland with them? Yeah, we were at Disneyland with them. With them? Yeah, so, okay, so, I was so funny. The day before I didn't even know my best friend wasn't coming. I assumed he was, I just assumed his kids were there, his wife's there.

I just thought, we've all been so busy. And I thought, like, I would see him then the night before Katrina was like, oh, yeah, you know, Justin's not coming. I'm like, what do you mean Justin's not coming? She's like, yeah. And I'm like, what? I texted him. He's like, I thought you knew.

I'm like, no, I had no idea. So he stayed home and worked. His wife and mother-in-law and their two kids. So my God. So it was you and your family, man. Yeah, and then just me, Katrina and Max. And we just, we didn't go with them. We met them and saw them there.

And we did the whole, uh, The Halloween bash thing that Disneyland does is really cool. We did that. Remember when we were at Disney World last year, all of us, we were in Florida. I went and took Max to that. And he's really into Halloween. I mean, you guys know he's like the villains and the characters and like he's... He must have been.

Yeah, he just loves that. And so I've justified, because I remember before Max got this age, I told Katrina, I didn't want to take him to any of these places until he was old. You don't even remember half the stuff you do before five. That's true. And so I was like, hey, how about... we wait more for you it is exactly i'm like let's let's wait till he's like seven eight nine or when he's like really asking to go and so i lost that argument so we we went last year we went again this year

um but i do i do enjoy seeing him do the halloween thing because he really gets into it i mean we got all dressed up he was dressed up we did the whole thing and the Disneyland does do a really cool Halloween bash he still is not um ready for the rides though he just and you know i'm Again, I'm more like, I get all frustrated that we're even tootting him around, make him do this, spend all this money to go to Disneyland, and we don't do any rides. It's so expensive. And Katrina's on the opposite side. She's just like, all encouraging. It's so good. He did like four this time. And he at least got on there. There was no crying. And I'm like, yeah, but he like literally closed his eyes, looked at the ground, wouldn't watch anything that he was doing. Like, you could tell the poor kid doesn't want to be on the ride. But he's like mustering it up to go, go through the whole process. But he's just so scared. I did get a little bit. I did feel better. on the second morning I'm getting up to go get an energy drink down in the little Disney store below and I see a boy probably my son's age maybe even a year older waiting in line and the ladies it's like oh are you excited for the rides day and the kid was just like kind of just like stone face

didn't really respond to her and then walked away and she kind of chuckled she goes oh the boys the boys are always the last ones to enjoy the rides like that and go oh really is that pretty she's like oh yeah she's like very common the girls always are more seek adventure no more about it. The boys are always true. I know. I didn't realize. It's definitely true with my son. It's definitely true with my son. Look that up, Doug. See if that's true. Because my daughter's like that. I was true with my, with Everett. Yeah,

for sure. Oh, man. It's a long time to come around. Oh, yeah. Max is just he is, I mean, he, again, we did a couple of them, but he, you could tell, is not. That's wild about Everett. I would never imagine because he's so like, he'll jump off of something that he shouldn't. Yeah. And he'll do the scariest things. I showed

you the, did I show you the picture? Yeah. Oh, yeah. he's at school he's playing tackle football they're not allowed to play tackle football he just does it anyway and uh he was like going for a pass trips falls right on the curb on his face oh and has a huge raspberry like on his face he showed me the picture oh wow yeah yeah and he goes right to lacrosse practice but yeah so that i think and then i told you that story when i was like pressing him to go on this ride and he was just like dad no no no and i got so mad and then I just went up on my own and anyway I was glad that he didn't go on it because it was literally like traumatized him so I was like oh good but yeah it took him a while to come around now

he's like all about it what does it say Doug so it doesn't seem to be any uh hard evidence that girls are faster than boys however I found this interesting women tend to enjoy amusement parks more than men in the US oh yeah that makes sense I didn't know I like I wouldn't go with just I had never thought about it, but when I look at my goddaughter and his son, it's that way. To hear that lady who works at Disneyland say that was like, okay, that's reassuring that, knowing that, like, it's not my, just my son who's terrible. So my boy won't. He won't. He won't go on stuff.

That's a little scary. Dahlia, she's so young. She's not even three yet. She'll be, for sure, she'll be the one to jump on stuff for sure. Yeah. Did you guys ever do, because since we're getting close to Halloween, did you guys ever do, like, legit haunted houses when you were a teenager? Yeah, dude. You did?

Oh, yeah. The chainsaws and, like, gnarly. Running after you, the axe. Over here with the bay has a couple of them. They shut some malls down and turn them all. And you did them? I can't really.

Yeah, that stuff is so in person, I guess, doing something like that. Although I wouldn't say, like, I loved them. I did them. I did them. You're probably pressured it. Yeah, yeah. It's more like being in high school and everyone's going. It's like, I'm not that much of it was from.

I'm not going to go, you know? But, yeah, so I don't. recall loving them, but I also did a few of them, like, and we have, Bay Area has some pretty cool ones over here. Oh, I'd always get mad because there'd be like one clown that just wouldn't leave you alone. Oh. And you're just like, okay, you're trying to pick on me because I'm the guy in the group or whatever.

And like, this guy was just like, me, me, me, yeah, me, and I was like, what are you do? You're a, you're a prop. I did one when I was 15 with my cousin. This is right around where you think you're like, kind of like a badass or whatever. Yeah. And we went with some, I think they were. some girls. And we were trying to be cool. And so my cousin was like, yeah, we're not screaming

like a girl. And you're going around corners and there's like little scenes that are all bloody and like killers and they come chase you and all stuff. And so we were doing well. Like, nobody was scaring us. But then we go around this corner and I did not know there was a guy on the ceiling. Oh, guy jumped down. He was dressed up and as alien. You know the movie Alien? And so when we're walking, it's pitch black. A strobe light comes on. And he comes off the ceiling and reaches after you. That's legit. Oh, we squealed. I'm for sure I'll never forget that

it's like burned in my memory It's fun Yeah I definitely scares the hell out of it I saw Do you guys decorate yet Are you are you We only We carved a couple pumpkins

I know it's early Because we'll carve some more But that's all we did so far Yeah we're all we're all decorated So we did all that I saw Yeah they did Your pictures

Yeah this weekend So yeah he loves all that stuff He's all about He's about all that Like he loves the skeletons And all the things But he is still like He still

It has to be something that is like still playful and like, I don't know, like something too scary. I don't know if you remember, I bought one, I gave it away to, who has it in my family? Oh, my other sister-in-law, she has it. Yeah, I bought one of those crazy, huge animated ones. Yeah. And it has like a dead head that it's like carrying.

Oh, come on, bro. And it said something like crazy. A severed head, bro. Yeah, yeah, bro. He's like, I thought, I thought because he's so into Halloween, I'm like, oh, he's going to love this. And he's like, nah. And he won't go to... Gee, I wonder why...

He won't go to the Halloween spirit store. It's too much. Well, because that stuff jumps out of it. Yeah, because it's all over there. So he, like, he won't even walk in the store. So he's, as much as he likes all those things, he's still timid about certain ones. It's like, it has to be kind of playful, fun, cartoonish. It's fun.

Yeah, yeah. It's fun. See, we'd even take that when I was in college, like, to the next level. Like, we would just try really hard to freak everybody out. Oh, yeah. And then we would go drive, like, longest. because we'd hear of like some story of this like abandoned church that was haunted and like we would take guys and we would go there and like who's going to like touch the handle first. Oh, come on.

Who's going to, you know, and then somebody would mess. Dude, yeah, there was a period where it was like that was a big thing. It was a scare the shit of each other. I saw, there was a video, maybe you brought it up where people were driving their Teslas. Yes. Through cemeteries. Yes, that's real. And Tesla's will show, you know, they'll show you in the digital part of the Tesla where you're looking at the screen.

I want to show you for people walking real time. And people are going through the cemetery. You can watch all kinds of YouTube videos on it. That's crazy. We had this conversation with my family a couple weekends ago, and they didn't believe me. And I'm like, oh, look it up. And so they start, they're like, oh, my God, this is real. Oh, look at all these videos.

You can see it happening. It is wild. And I've yet to hear a good explanation of why. And it's not like a, so what you, what someone thought, they're like, oh, I bet when you pull in, it reads the tombstones as people. I'm like, oh, no, they're walking. They're walking around the. car and moving. And you're in a cemetery, dude. It is literally nobody out there whatsoever.

And all of a sudden, they start walking all around the car. That is weird. There's probably some Tesla engineers having a good time. So that they looked that up. It's not either. We try to disprove it and figure it out. And we went down this rabbit hole one night at the dinner with all my family. That's scary, dude. They were tripping out. I'm cool. I'm not doing it. Speaking of Tesla, you see they're getting ready to drop their new phone. What see when you said that. I want, yeah, I wouldn't know the specs. So, okay, if I understand this correctly, it is going to be directly linked to Starlink and the Wi-Fi will be part of the service. What do you mean? So, like, you won't have to pay,

you'll be able to go- You just buy the phone, you get it. Yes. And it automatically links- So you get Wi-Fi for free. Yes, anywhere in the world. Well, that's, well, yeah, because it's disrupting. You go anywhere. Fact-checked me, Doug, to make sure. Is that the Tesla phone? Apple's going to feel this. Oh, dude, you're kidding. It's going to really hurt. Especially considering the knock on Apple ever since jobs has been gone, is that they really haven't really innovated anything. It's been like the same kind of recycle, recycle, and there's been a lot of critiques of that business already.

What does it say there, Doug? Yeah, in the innovation, they stopped. Like, even the Apple car and, like, they went a couple different directions, but they just cut funding and focus on the phone. And that's a big part of Apple's revenue, so you want to talk about shorting a stock right now, dude. All their cash.

You can go on and buy them now? I don't know. Hold on. It says Tesla phones. Um, they do have them up. I can't say that you can buy them yet. Okay. Well,

their stock's gonna go through the roof. Well, yeah, that's, you get free Wi-Fi? Just a, what a, what a, pretty sick. What a freaking angle. And Starlink, I've never used it. Supposedly, it's been amazing. Amazing. Be on the ocean, you can be anywhere.

That's, right? That's what, that's supposed to. Well, if you have free Wi-Fi, why would you need cell service? You wouldn't. You wouldn't. You don't need nothing, right? Is this, like, satellite? Yeah.

So you probably have to be outside, though. satellite doesn't typically work inside. Is that like WhatsApp where you run through that? No, because when you're inside, Doug, you use your normal Wi-Fi. You know what I'm saying? As long as you have it. There is no official Tesla phone. Okay.

Well, I know they've talked about wanting to do it. That's interesting. Yeah, I don't know. All right, I'm going to change directions and talk about a fatty acid that we'll work with a partner called Fatty 15. So that sounds funny. It's a funny name. I was teasing Justin about that. It is.

I'm like, Justin, I named it. You guys. I knew that was going to fall on me somehow. No. So I looked up studies. It's called C-15 or C-17. Let me look it up just to make sure. C-15.

C-15. So this is a fatty acid that's found in dairy. And a lot of us don't get enough of it. And I think that this is the net, this is the fat. This fatty acid is going to be like omega-3 fatty acids in terms of supplementing. They show in studies that it reduces inflammation. It is connected to lower risk of heart. heart disease. It's anti-inflammatory. It's got insulin sensitizing effects. It seems to

inhibit cancer cell growth in certain models. So this is a fatty acid that supplementing with you should see, and the data on this is pretty remarkable. That's why we're working with that. What's your thoughts on like if and when do you think we'll start having like doctors recommended like they do omega's? I think. Omega seems to be like a staple supplement that most doctors. Remember this. A fish oil and omega-3 fatty acids were recommended by. the wellness industry way before it was recommended mainstream. It wasn't until not that long ago that the studies continued to pile up, pile up, pile up. And they said, hey, this is actually beneficial?

So is that your prediction on this too? Because I didn't hear about this until this company. You're the one that made us privy to this. That this is going to become one of those things that we'll hear in the wellness space for probably a few years, maybe even a decade, who knows how long it'll take before doctors start adopting it. But it's that impactful. Yes. And so what's interesting about this is, so there's a little bit of it in beef and lamb, but it's mostly in full fat dairy. And a lot of people, we still eat a lot of dairy. People consume a lot of air. Not a lot of people consume a lot of full fat dairy. And so we're missing out on some of these benefits of this particular fatty acid. So I think this is especially beneficial. We cut that out of our diets. That's right. You're the case for raw milk. Well, raw. I mean, if you look at the raw milk is great. But if you look at like someone like me, like I don't have dairy in my diet because.

it doesn't do well with me, but I can have dairy fat. I can't have dairy proteins. So this is a fatty acid that I supplement with for some of these benefits. And I think it will be along the lines of what we see with fish oil moving forward. So you're not what you eat. You are what you digest. Look, digestive enzymes can help you break down proteins, fats, and carbohydrates to maximize what you eat. Get those nutrients to the areas you want like muscle and recovery. Help with digestion. Go check out the best company that offers these. Mass.Syms.com.

That's M-A-S-Z-Y-M-E-S dot com forward slash mind pump. Use the code Mind Pump 10. Get 10% off any order. Here comes a show. Our first caller is Kevin from South Carolina. Hey, Kevin. Hey, Kevin. Hey, guys.

How's it going? Good. How can we help you? So, Kevin, I'm 41 years old. I'm husband, father of three. I have to give you guys the obligatory flowers that people always do. Found you guys maybe a year, year and a half ago. She's looking for a podcast to listen to to prove myself physically, mentally.

Clicked on the first one. It ended up being something about muscle mommies, build your butt. I didn't really, I was pot committed. I listened to it anyway. I didn't get a ton out of it. But you guys dove into some parenthood topics and fatherhood topics and, you know, kind of what it was to be. the example for your sons and to be the measuring stick for your daughters when they start dating. And that really resonated with me. So I'm glad I stuck around and listened. Since taking

your advice, I've definitely improved my diet, prioritized protein and whole foods. I've lost some weight, put on some muscle. Virtually every aspect of my life has gotten easier, better, getting out of bed in the morning, you know, sitting up, sitting up from a chair and picking things up, putting things down, just, you name it. Life in general has just become easier since I've been listening to you guys and taking your advice. So, cheers to you. Very, very much.

Appreciate the advice on the pocket. Appreciate that, Kevin. Great. Thank you, man. So to my question, I work a pretty time-demanding job. I'm punching in usually around 6.30 in the morning, and I leave at 4.30 in the afternoon. I got a little bit of a commute home by the time I get home and get myself together and get, you know, dinner, get the kids homework, get everybody situated and have a little family time. There's not a lot left, you know, in terms of time of day and just in general, energy in the tank to do too much.

So I'm resigned to work out in the mornings. I get up usually 3.30 or 4 o'clock, go to the gym by work, you know, give it 45 minutes or an hour, and head straight to work. work from there. I've been doing Maps 15 for a while. It seems like that's probably what would have made the most sense. I've had some pretty good success with it. I don't have any complaints really about the program. My issue is that by the time I get to the end of the week, you know, Thursday, Friday, and even sometimes Wednesday, as silly as it sounds, even with the short workouts, I can't really attack them with the same, you know, vigor that I do on the Monday and Tuesday workouts. And I don't know that I get as much out of them as I should be.

And my question is, is there a way to maybe hybridize some programs to where I could do like a longer full body workout on a Saturday? Just kind of have a little more time, a little more energy, just, you know, really send it on a Saturday and then do, you know, two or three shorter workouts during the week to get the other lifts in. And what something like that would look like, you know, would be best to stack up the maps 15 days and do four or five of those on a week. Saturday and just kind of take my time or would it better to, you know, maybe look into a different program and break the full days up into shorter days or, you know, some kind of mashup of the two. I just was looking for some guidance from you guys. Good question, Kevin. And there's, that's one way to do it.

I think a better way to do it. You know, when we write the programs, we write them, uh, with a typical calendar, uh, you know, seven days in a week, four weeks in a month. But you don't have to follow it that. way. So I think there's a better option for you, Kevin. I think what you do, what you should do is when you feel good, you do that MAPS 15 workout. And when you miss a couple days, you miss, and then you get right back on to the next workout. So it doesn't have to be like that, you know, where it's, you know, six days in that week, you're following the MAPS 15 workout. Then you have your day off or whatever.

It can literally be like workout, workout, day off, day off, another workout, day off, work out. So whenever you feel good, you just pick up right where you left off. And it's totally fine. In fact, I think that would be more appropriate for a guy like you when you're finding yourself. I mean, waking up at 3.30 and 4 is brutal. You got kids. You got to put them to bed. You probably want to spend some time with your wife.

So it's not like you're going to bed at 8 p.m. Because it's probably when the kids go down. You want to stay up and hang out with your wife a little bit. So, and I don't, I mean, you can do two or three workouts on a Saturday. But you also might want to do something with your family on a Sunday. Saturday or maybe get more rest. So I think the best option is just do what I said. Like the mornings you wake up, you feel good, do a workout and then take a couple days off

and jump around. I like what he suggested to, one of the suggestions that he did. I don't know if you picked up on a note because because he feels so good on Monday, Tuesday, why not run Monday, Tuesday, math 15, just a 15 minute version? And then Saturday and Sunday combined. Yeah. You could do that. So four of the workouts get accomplished, which is still only a, it's going to be a 50-minute

workout or last. Sure. So Saturday and Sunday, you take two of the days and combine them on Saturday and Sunday, and then you only lift during the week Monday, Tuesday, and you just do the 15 minutes before work. Based off what you told me, like you have good energy on the beginning of the week. So I would do it Monday, Tuesday, and then on Saturday and Sunday, do the combined two of those. That way you're not bouncing in and at different programs. You're still following the structure the way it is.

I like that option, too. Maybe try them both and see which one feels better for you. Yeah, the reason why I said what I said is because I know, I'm sure weekends for you sometimes are going to be, you know, family stuff. Yeah, so, you know, structure is good, but if you're consistent and you're good with your consistency around not being super structured, then I think that's the better option. In other words, some people need that like Monday, Tuesday, Saturday, Sunday, I'll work out. other people are like no I'm pretty good about working out when I feel good and okay with you know taking a couple days off you know some people turn that into like a week off when then they're like oh oh I need more structure but I think if you get up you feel good do your workout and taking a couple days off it's totally fine and then pick up right where you left off and you know you could have a weekend where you add more you know more of the workouts together it's all the programming works either way with the way the math 15 is laid out okay cool so it's more flexible maybe than what I was thinking. Totally.

Absolutely. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So send it a little more on Saturdays and Sundays and then try Monday, Tuesday and relax a little bit more during the week. That's right.

That's right. And then do you have 15 performance? Yeah. I got the bundle where it has performance and the regular. Oh, you're set, dude. You're totally set. Yeah. Okay.

Well, good deal. That's all I needed. Like I said, I appreciate you guys. Definitely very like noticeable life. changes, you know, listening to you guys. So really, really appreciate that and I appreciate the guidance here too. Keep it up, Kevin. You got it, man. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Take it easy. You know, I don't want to underestimate. So I used to underestimate this as a trainer because why, because I was a kid, didn't have kids and a family. Like a lot of people have this kind of schedule

where it's like, it is hard. A lot of people don't consider it. No, man, it is hard. It's a lot of stress. Your sleep isn't great. You got bills. your work, you've got to wake up at three or four or five just to get. And so you want to make it work around that. If your workout starts decreasing your quality of life because you're now, you're too exhausted to be with your kids. Yeah, you want it to compliment your life. That's right.

That's right. I mean, I like kind of what he was going to do, though. I like the idea of the first two days of the week because then also he's only doing 15 minutes so he should be able to sleep in a little bit more than 3.30. Yeah. So you get a little bit more sleep. Just get the 15 minutes in on those two days. And then the rest of the week, focus on work.

your point is valid though I mean that's probably when he also does things with the family and go they might travel they might do that stuff but then if I know that's coming up that maybe that's how I change it for that week I might get my workouts in the need part about like what you go

I think that most people need to be able to look we always we do we always look at everything in this like seven day snapshot as if that's how our body works on it's on some seven day cycle or whatever it's like no you know sometimes you get two days in a row and then all sudden you miss a day or sometimes you get three days in a row

and then you miss two days. And it's like, it's okay. You just follow the way the program's laid out, even if it turns into a nine-day week. That's right. It doesn't matter. Just keep following it in that order. And if you're more consistent than you're not,

you're going to be winning for the most part. Our next caller is Alicia from Colorado. Hi, Alicia. Hello. Hi, guys. How you doing? Good. Man, I just want to say thank you guys.

And I appreciate everything that you guys do. And I love you guys. Thank you. Thank you. How can we help you? So a little backstory. I started my journey back in 2024. I lost probably about 26 pounds with just eating healthy.

This January is when I kind of started incorporating weightlifting five times a week. I hired a coach. She started me doing like a reverse diet because I was eating only. at the time, 1,200 calories. So we did that. I reached maintenance probably in May, and then in June, we started cutting. So I guess my question is,

I've been struggling because I feel like I'm not making progress, and I know I am, even though the scale is not moving. So this whole time, the scale has, say that 155, but my body has dramatically changed from what it used to be. So I know I'm making progress. Now that I'm cutting, I don't know if I need to go back to maintenance to continue building more muscle and to get more of the sculpting that I truly want. Good question. Yeah, a couple questions further, though. What did you get up to when you say you got up to maintenance

before your cut? So what were your calories at? And then where are you currently at right now when you cut. So when I got to maintenance, there were 2000. Okay. Now that I'm cutting, I'm at 5,552. Okay. 1552, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. By the way, I see her before and after. Yeah, you're definitely making great. Yeah. Making great progress. You're doing great. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about your workout first. So you started weightlifting or strength training five days a week? Five days a week at four in the morning, me and my husband. Why five days a week? That's, that's a lot. Because at the time, I struggled two years to get my eating under control. So I was the type of person before is I didn't want to work out.

I refused to work out. I thought doing fab diets was the thing. It's not. So when I started in January, I knew I needed to go straight in. I needed to just do it. So I wanted to build a consistency. And yeah, now I love it. Who is your husband putting the workout together?

Are you following his lead with it? Are you guys both kind of doing it? So I started first. We hired or I hired a trainer. So they got us going until about June. And then in June, I decided to let go of my trainer. And then now we're just doing it ourselves. Okay.

And are you guys enjoying doing it together? We do. But we, I mean, we go to the gym together. but we do, we're not working side by side. He has his program and I have mine because we both have different goals. All right. I don't want to dissuade you. So that's more than you need.

But if you're enjoying it and you're going and you're modifying intensity and getting stronger. I mean, I love for going five. I love for going five. Just let me convince you to do it this way. Go the five. Follow maps, Anabolic three days a week. Walk for an hour on the treadmill the other two days. And keep going to the gym five days a week because I totally respect and get that.

I'm like that where I do. better with just every morning at this time, I get up and I go here. It doesn't matter. But you'd be far better off following a full body program like MAPS Anabolic, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Tuesdays, you just walk on the treadmill for the hour. So you still go to the gym, same time, same everything. But the hour that you're spending in the gym for those two days is walking on a treadmill. Just a normal walk. Just a normal, nice walk. Or elliptical or you can do other things too. Nothing crazy. Yep. That's, that and that, that'd be a more effective strength training And then I also want to bump your calories up a couple hundred calories.

So I want to take you back from your 15 or so to probably 17 or 1,800 calories to start and then following MAPS Anabolic and the walking like talking about and start to reverse diet you again. And then you're going to start to kill muscle again. I agree. I mean, because I do like, I felt a lot better at maintenance. The only reason why we decided putting was because I felt bulkier and heavy. But I did notice, like, my glutes were getting bigger. My thighs have got bigger, which is good, but I just didn't like feeling heavy.

Yeah. I mean, we can see your, we saw your before and afters. And for you to kind of maintain the same way, it says that you're probably in that sweet spot where you were losing body fat, but building muscle, losing body. And that's like a, it's psychologically, it's a hard place to be. I'm sure you've heard us talk about all the time. It's a hard place when you're in what we call the Goldilocks zone because you don't. don't see the swings on the scale like people want, but technically you were in a really good place.

And so I think getting you back up to that 1,800 to 2,000 calories and then following a program that we give you, I think you're going to see incredible results. Okay. So do you think I kind of hindered myself dropping dramatically? No, no. I don't think you hurt yourself or hindered anything. I think you're fine.

I don't think you did anything detrimental or overreesome, did it for too long, and so we're okay. It was maybe a good break on eating that many calories, and now you'll want to eat more again. I think it's okay. It's totally fine. It's not a bad thing. Yeah.

Have you seen our muscle mommy group, by the way? Because that might be a great kind of. You love that. It's group coaching, so you'll get some guidance. Because I know you worked with a coach before, and it'll give you some guidance. You're kind of not by yourself. You meet with our trainers.

Once a week, our girls get in there and meet, our female trainers are meeting with all these ladies. and helping them through. Oh, yeah, I would love that. Yeah. All right, we'll send you a link to that. Yep. And then follow that advice.

Do you have MAPS Anabolic? Can we send that to you? Yeah, I don't have it. I don't have any of your guys' programs. We'll send it to you. We're going to change that. We got you. Okay, thank you.

So we're going to send that over to you. And then when you get in the community, any questions that you have about the program, just pop them in there, and then the trainers will help you out. Okay, excellent. Awesome. All right, listen.

all right thanks guys you got it I love that she sent her before and after yeah oh huge difference oh yeah huge yeah it's a so hard though psychologically of course to stay the same way you know course but it sets you up it sets you up for long term success the other way where you're just fighting with the scale not only is it a nightmare but it sets you up for failure 90 over 90% of time really good sign though that she

she saw it and felt it so there's totally nothing wrong and in fact sometimes I would do this with clients to kind of show. I'm like, oh, here we go. We can cut some calories and maybe the scale goes down a couple pounds real quick. But did you feel better? Did you look better? Like, man, and she knows it. She felt better. She felt more fed. She felt like her muscle was fuller. Like, definitely. Get back up to those calories. And then I think when she follows MAPS enabolic, I think she's a huge, huge difference. So look forward to seeing her in the community, too. Her next caller is Angelica from New York. Hi, Angelica.

Hi. How can we help? Hello. So I reached out because I reached out. I am a little confused. So I'm just going to read it. It says, first of all, thank you for sharing the knowledge with all of us. Listeners, it's been incredibly helpful and motivated. I'm reaching out. I'm in a bit of a tough spot and could do some guidance.

I'm 42, mom of two, white, doby mom. And I've been a runner since 2021. It helped me overcome postpartum depression after having my daughter. Earlier this year, I fractured my foot, was shifting my goal. focus into strength training. Since then, I've discovered bodybuilding and now want to work towards getting stage ready. My husband currently has maps and a body, an athletic program, and I've easily purchased the split since it geared more towards body building.

I haven't started yet because I'm unsure which program is best for me. I'm currently training five days a week, three lower, and two upper body. I'm very disciplined with both lifting and running once I'm clear to go back into running. I should also mention I'm very compartmentalized person. I like upper body days and lower body days. Doing whole body makes me anxious, which is probably why I haven't started the other programs. I normally like to boot together what I can, dumbbells, barbells, etc. nutrition is where I feel most lost. I've cut a lot of from my diet due to my health issues

in the past year. I know I need more structure. Eggs make me nauseous. This doesn't sit well with me. I've limited oil, eating out, and gluten. I'm not sure how much I should be eating or how to build a command that supports both muscle growth and stage prep. I'm currently 121 pounds. I'm down from 175 pounds. And while I've seen progress and strength and muscle, role since May, I don't know how to take control this next day. I love some advice on which program to begin with, how to approach nutrition specifically how much I should be eating to fuel my training, which division of the peony figure or et cetera might be the best starting point for me. I do work in health care, so most of my days is best found

after training, and my evenings are filled with cooking and family routines, and my day goes by very quickly. I'm grateful for any guidance that you guys can share with. Oh, man. Okay. You're not going to like what I'm going to tell you. I don't think you should you, I don't think you should compete. This is my opinion. Okay. Yeah. I think one, for sure figuring out the food intolerances, gut stuff, anything you have going on, I think is far more important to figure that out. Getting ready for a show, so one of the biggest mistakes that people make is deciding, I want to get ready for a show, and they look at their calendar, and they're like, okay, it looks like January of next year is a good time for my schedule.

And then they book the show and then they begin to diet for that show. The real work is done before you get ready for the prep for a show, meaning making sure you're all healthy, gut-wise, ramping your metabolism up, building a solid muscular physique because really the diet to get on stage is literally just revealing all that work. The physique is built in the off-season. The metabolism is built in the off season. So making sure that gut health is on point. We are eating a good amount of calories, meaning someone your size, I'd want you north of 2,700 calories or more. And then we talk about, okay, now that we're there, you feel healthy, you feel strong, our metabolism is ramped up. We're eating 2,700 plus calories.

Now let's talk about where your body fat percentage is and when a show should be based off of that. much better strategy if you want to do a show. That's how I'd get you ready for it. Any health issues that you have will get exacerbated by pre-contest prep. They'll just make them a lot worse. So what it would look like, if I already give you some numbers, someone like you, your height, your size, you'd want to be able to maintain 20% body fat, 18% body fat at like 3,000 calories.

So you're eating 3,000 calories a day. and you're 18% body fat. And you feel good, you feel healthy. Then you might be in a position to go on a, you know, 14-week pre-contest diet. And you probably start with bikini because figure and all that is even more advanced. But that would be the starting place. And that would all that still is a difficult road. Okay.

Now, if you're not at that starting place, if you're like 2200 calories, you're maintaining 23% body fat. Like, where are you going to end up before going on a show? you know, 800 calories, you'll crash your hormones, destroy your metabolism, and place yourself in a position where you're like, man, I regret even trying, because I just, I just feel terrible. Now it's going to take me six months to get healthy again, or what happens to a lot of women is they regain and then some gain body weight. So it's not the best, you know, it's not the best target or goal to aim for.

But if it's what you want to do, then we'd want to end up where I said, about 3,000 calories. 18% body fat is what you're able to maintain at that many calories. And then we have some room. We have some runway with the diet. Any idea? Any idea where we are calorie-wise and body fat percentage-wise right now? Okay. So don't yell. What did you say? I said don't yell. I've been tracking it, but don't yell. Okay. Well, yeah, I promise. And what I've been tracking for the past, I would say, one and a half, is I am ending up at 13. 16, 1300. 1300. Okay, I'm not yelling. I'm just, I'm talking, I know I'm talking faster. 1,300 calories is where you're at right now?

Yeah, because. Okay. If you try and do a show right now, I will call your husband, okay, when we hang up. And make sure he doesn't allow you to do that. Absolutely. Well, no. Okay. No, no.

So I don't want it to be like, um, I even want, I want this to be like a two year. Okay. Go. Okay. Good goal. Good goal. I like that. I like reasonable.

Right. So backstory is that, um, I, I haven't had the best relationships with school because growing up, I, you know, I was big and then my mom always informed me of that. And even after having my daughter, she's two months out, she was like, El, guess what, you're still fat? So I'm like, yeah, I just had a whole human. So I've been trying to, like, erase the voice and, you know, hang on to God's word. But it's been a difficult journey.

So getting into this bodybuilding, I know that I'm not going to be safe ready this year or even next year. Angelica. Because I have to build that relationship with me. Yeah, Angelica, the last thing you should do is get on stage and get judged by the way you look. Yeah, especially coming from that. If you have that challenge, you're just going to, it's like you're, it's okay. You have a recovering alcoholic, let's say, who's been sober for four months and they want to get a job as a bartender. Yeah.

Terrible idea. You're placing yourself right in the clutches of the enemy. And so what you're going to do is you're doing that with that kind of competition. If you want to compete, look, if you have a competitive mindset and you like it, you like, I want to do something, I have a better option for you. Let me send you MAPS Power Lift, follow MAPS Power Lift, bump your calories up to 1,600 calories to start with, slowly work your way above 2,000 calories on MAPS power lift and just try to get strong.

Don't weigh yourself. Don't focus on the mirror. When you get dressed, just get dressed. Don't study your body. Just get strong at MAPS power lift. By the way, the side effect of it, it's going to be. going to be you're going to get leaner. You will get leaner doing that. But don't focus on how you look. Focus on getting stronger in Maps power lift and reverse diet. And Jelka, have you looked

at the Musclemommi Moved.com that we started? I did. I did take the test. I think I was that's not that's not important. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. The main thing is that did you have a group there? Yeah. Did you get in the in the group, in the private group with us? no okay you've got to get in there um this will help because we have doctors that are hormone specialists that are coming on talking about female hormones it's all women trying to build muscle they're all following different programs a lot of them have past food relationship issues that are being discussed I mean this is the conversations that we are having as a community with with all women and our two female trainers are running it they're meeting weekly with everybody we're having doctors come in

there. Just an incredibly valuable group for you to be a part of considering what you're talking about right now. And I love the idea of setting this as a long-term goal. I'm totally okay with that, but we definitely got to get through all the other stuff, get yourself in a healthy place before we even consider show prepping. So right now, let's get that all under control. And if you will allow us, allow us to help you through that process. Yeah, that's awesome. My husband actually is the one that has been pushing me into like lifting heavy and then I had a PR past weekend with deadlist of 215. Yeah, that's awesome.

That's awesome. Angelica, you're strong. Good job. You're going to like math power lift. Yeah, so I like lifting heavy. I didn't know. So I'm like being a runner is like my best workouts. I'm doing the speed and the hill workouts because I just like that challenge.

I like to feel like I'm at the brink of like I can't. can't do it and then push past that. And with lifting, he always always lies to me and adds more weight. And here I thought I was like, oh, I'm going to do $1.95. And when I pulled it, and he was like, yeah, that was $2.15. I was like, oh. That's awesome.

That's awesome. Follow mass power lift, reverse diet. You'll be so much happier. We're going to send you power lift. I'll have Doug also send the link to you to get back. It's Musclemommiemovement.com. Yeah, I'll send that link to you. And then get inside the group and then we'll help you from that process from then on out.

And then we'll talk later about show stuff, okay? Okay. All right, Angela. All right. I look forward to seeing you in there. Yes. All right. The last thing you should do if you have any body dysmorphia or food relationship issues is a stage presentation sport.

Yeah. It's the last. It will throw you right. into dysfunction. It's impossible. I even think your analogy isn't even, is still better. So the bartender who,

you know, the guy who gets recovered alcoholic, right, recovers for four months, it goes to be a bartender, I think is an easier process than the person who has a poor relationship with food being forced to measure track

and do food stuff and then be judged on their body. Actually, it would be more like, you're drinking. Like, it would be more like a small amount of, You get to take a shot with the... Yes. It's more like a sober, like a recovering alcoholic, you know,

becoming a wine tester or something like that. It's even... It is. It's even more difficult and worse than that. And I know the point of the analogy, but let me make it crazier. It's worse than that. Of what you're doing to a person who has struck with any sort of body dysmorphia or food relationship issue. It's a body dysmorphia sport.

Exactly. It is. And so go doing that. at the competitive level is the last and worst thing you could do. And then again, I just want to reiterate what I said to her that I try and, because I have this conversation so much with people that want to compete, the work for getting on stage is not done in the prep.

It's done off-season. It's done getting your metabolism ready, getting your relationship with food ready, getting your foundation of your muscle ready. When you go and you cut for a show, all you're doing is trimming off the body fat and revealing all the hard work. you've done, revealing the incredible strong metabolism that you built so that you're able to

still eat amount of calories, revealing all the muscle you built over years of strength training consistently. Like, that's all the prep is, is that you're not doing anything other than that. And so focusing on the off season, building a healthy metabolism, building a strong physique, building a good relationship with food and diet, that's so more important than the actual prep for the thing. Our next caller is Aaron from Texas. Hey, Aaron.

What's going on, Aaron? Hey, how are you guys? Good, man. Good, man. How can we help you? All right. Let me get straight into my question. So I'm 36 years old.

I'm a husband and a father to two girls. Now, about seven months ago, I decided I need to start making a change. So I started out weighing about 218 pounds, and I decided to cut out sodas, most processed foods, and a lot all the fast food and as well as a good decent amount of alcohol um once i did that i started tracking my calories um weighing all my food that way i could get a better idea of what i was eating and consuming um in the first two months i ended up losing 20 pounds and i decided i need to incorporate strength training uh so i ended up buying dumbbells and a bench and started lifting weights at the house. I do three times a week full body. I only eat basically whole foods, limited processed

foods. And I'm currently now at 168 pounds. I did measurements for my body fat. I'm roughly around 11% body fat somewhere in there. And I know now that I need to try to lean bulk and gain some muscle mass. But the problem is I'm eating a lot of food, a lot of whole foods, and I'm getting full fairly quick. So I'm just, I guess, wondering, I guess my question is, what's the best way to try and put on more mass if I'm getting full constantly? Because I am, like, at the end of the night, I'm eating Greek yogurts and protein shakes trying to get extra protein in, which that's always my number one priority is extra protein. I just, the whole foods is where I want to stay at. I'm happy not eating any more fast food or anything like that. Just I'm trying to figure out how to build that lean mass now, I guess.

You're killing it, dude. You're doing great, bro. You are. You're doing really good. And building muscle is a slow process. Yeah. So, and you look great. You look good.

I see your picture there. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Building muscle is a slow process. If you're eating whole foods, you're hitting your protein targets, you're eating until you're satisfied. In fact, you're telling us right now, like, I don't know if I could eat anymore. I don't think you need to focus on stuff in your face.

At this point, it's programming. Okay. The focus is workout programming. Right. And that'll stimulate your appetite. Yep. So focus on getting stronger. Are you limited by equipment?

Is it just dumbbells and an adjustable bench? Yeah. So that is, I feel like that might be part of it. But my job, I'm at work 14 hours out of the day. Um, so when I get home in the evenings, I try to squeeze in about an hour to an hour and a half workout and I have dumbbells only in a bench. And the dumbbells even are kind of limited. I try to buy dumbbells when I need them or like when I need to move up and wait.

You're at the point where you need, uh, more weight. I mean, here's a deal. You are incredibly healthy, incredibly fit. You got good muscle. You got a good diet. You don't need to really change anything. But if you want more, you're kind of. at that level where the investment in maybe like a PRX squat rack, some extra weights,

like this will let us out of membership, or a gym membership, whatever's easier. That'll take you the next level. That will take you the next level. And it will fuel the appetite issue like Sal saying, if we put you on maps anabolic right now, just following that, your appetite will kick up. And if you keep following these rules of eat protein and eat whole foods, it'll come right with it, bro. You'll go right up with it. You really will because you're at a really good place. But you're also at a place where you could keep doing what you're doing at home and you'll

keep progressing slowly. Yeah, you're healthy, you're strong, you're fit. But the next level of like putting on more mass at a little bit faster rate is it's time to invest in either a more robust home gym or get a gym membership where you can, you can really start to attack some of those deep lists. Start getting those barbell lifts, those slats, those deadlift, those bench presses. You'll gain MAPS and Abolic following what you're doing with your diet now. You'll probably put on a good six, seven pounds of lean body mass on MAPS andabolic. Yep. Okay.

Well, yeah, I guess that's what I was looking for, just to maybe a little bit of validation that I am on the right track. And I think part of it is probably just getting slightly impatient, but I've been just trying to stick to the plan. Dude, you've done great. Bro, you went from 218 to 11% body fat with abs. Yeah. And you look muscular. Yeah. And I've never been able to see my abs before.

So saying that at 36 years old is pretty crazy. Dude, you're killing it. You're doing great, bro. So you're doing a great job. But yeah, you start, you throw in some barbell work in there, follow, like, maps andabolic. You'll probably, you know, I'm pretty confident saying someone like you, probably put on about seven pounds of lean body mass.

Well, at least that, actually, I think, because he's, he's kind of a novice. So I think that he's going to, he'll pack on you. You'll see how strong you get. Yeah, yeah. I, Aaron, I'd love to put you, I don't know if you're on Facebook at all, but if you are, I'd love to put you in our private forum. So we just keep, yeah, I'll have Doug set you up, put you in there for free, and then just stay in touch with us as you go through this process.

I'd love to hear if you end up getting a gym membership or if you end up working at home. I'll have Doug send you MAPS and Apollock with that too. And then you follow that. I think the rest will follow. Keep doing what you're doing. I think the rules that you've set for yourself, the way you're eating, all the things is perfect. Awesome. Man, I really appreciate you guys.

I listen to you guys all the time. And I will say, I think, listen to what you guys have to say is also made a huge. huge impact and difference on how I've approached things. So I really appreciate y'all. That's great, man. Gov to hear that, Aaron. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, you guys, man. It's doing great. It's doing great. Yeah, it's great. You know, this is, by the way,

I want people to hear this. Where he got, if you see, if you're watching this and you see his picture, which most, man, would want to look like that. Yeah. Yeah. You, he got there with just dumbbells. And some bands. Eating whole natural foods. Yep. You know, eating till he was full, not overdoing it. Like, that's, That should encourage a lot of people. And most people are happy with that. Now, next level, he's limited by his equipment, which is a great problem, by the way.

You start to get limited. Yeah, that's the next thing. You get limited by your equipment. He can literally just keep doing what he's doing, though. He'll still progress slowly. And he will continue to look good. I love it, too. Maintain 11% body fat.

And he's not weighing and measuring and tracking food. You're not crushing the gym, our gym workouts, you know, with all kinds. Like, it's literally that simple if you follow those steps and focus on those things. things, and he don't even need to change. But if he wants more, this is where the... Oh, yeah, MAPS and a ball. Yeah, deadlifting, squatting, overhead pressing. This is where this starts to really make a difference.

Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps and a ball.

Maths Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com.

If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is Mind Pump. Hi, I'm Chris Gatherd, and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous, a podcast where I talk to random people on the phone. I tweet out a phone number, thousands of people try to call, you talk to one of them, they stay anonymous, I can't hang up, that's all the rules, I never know what's going to happen. We get serious ones, I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison, I've talked to people who survive mass shootings, crazy funny ones, I talked to a guy with a goose laugh, somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends.

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