Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2736:DON'T listen to your body!

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Starting point is 00:02:31 You guys, real quick, I just want to mention we got a sale. It's up to 25% off equipment and select apparel on our store. Right now, there'll be $5 items as well. Sale will be from November 20th through November 30th. Go check it out at Mind Pumpstore.com. It's often said in the health and fitness space to listen to your body. In fact, we've said that probably a thousand times on this podcast. But sometimes, no joke, that's terrible advice.

Starting point is 00:03:00 There are times when you should not listen to your body. In fact, the more times I hop on coaching calls with my trainers, the more times I realize some of you need to ignore your body's signals. And we're going to break it down and explain while. My body lies. Yeah. I have a visual of a client that I remember like the first time I started trying to teach this to clients. and I remember a guy sitting across from me.

Starting point is 00:03:26 It must have been 300-something pounds. And I said this to him. And he looked at me all crazy and grabbed his belly and he shook it. Listening to my body got me. Listen to my body's got to me. That's the worst advice ever. No. So, you know, what this really boils down to, well, I'll tell you some of the calls I've been on.

Starting point is 00:03:44 So, you know, here at Mind Pump, we've now ventured into coaching, not us personally, but we have coaches that we train and develop that now work with people. And so we haven't personally coached people. Now I'm talking about myself and my co-hosts for a long time. And so hopping on some of these calls, it's great because, first off, I love it. We all love it. It's just a deep passion. But second, it really brings me back into what it's like to work with people.

Starting point is 00:04:16 And sometimes you can get disconnected, especially when I'm talking out into the internet ether here on a show like this. And, you know, I've had a couple calls now where people, you know, either through body dysmorphia or past poor relationships with food, either from, you know, in one case a severe, you know, situation where there was some anorexia, in other cases, much, much more insidious and mild, listening to their body, they don't know how. They don't know how to listen to their body, you know, listening to their body might make them feel like they're so. stuffed and feel gross all the time when in fact they're not eating enough or it made me reflect actually one of the calls made me reflect on myself as a kid growing up constantly feeling like I was too skinny even today always trying to get more jacked and realizing how crazy that is I knew as a kid that I had conditioned myself to the point where if I wasn't incredibly stuffed if I didn't feel like I couldn't breathe I thought I was hungry yeah you're still hungry

Starting point is 00:05:22 Oh, I can, I have more room. And so listening to my body would have been terrible advice because I didn't know how to listen to my body. The signals didn't make any sense to me. I'd ignore them for so long that what I thought were signals were just my own distortions. There's so many, you know, you've heard me talk about, and the reason why this is top of mind from me, this happened literally last night again. We ordered it last night. And, you know, I double order, you know, because at that moment I'm hungry.

Starting point is 00:05:52 and I know what I can eat when I'm really hungry. Yeah. And it's like I didn't even finish the first thing. And I, like, totally wasted the food. And it was another one of those moments of like, I don't know why. It's just out of habit. Yep. It's just purely, it's like for so many years you try to get big.

Starting point is 00:06:07 Yes. For so many that it doesn't register me as just a ridiculous amount of calories, you know, that I don't even want. Like, I couldn't even finish the first thing. And I'm like, what am I doing ordering that? But again, because I've done it for so long. And so, and even though I think I'm very in tune with listening to my boss, it's crazy how insidious it can be because if you've had these be and you know flip that on somebody

Starting point is 00:06:28 who's had behaviors for a very long time of overeating overeating some of it's even before we're listening to the body signals and it's just habit of pouring that much on the plate you know or ordering that much food and it's like learning to first discipline yourself to like pull back and go like why don't I just try like half of what I thought I need you know and then eat it and then go let me try and listen, right? There are, there's like a few clear examples I can give. And by the way, if you're listening, you don't have to fit in one of these categories.

Starting point is 00:07:01 It could be in between some of these categories. But in one case, for example, or on one side, you would have someone who's always self-medicated with food. And so the result of this is obesity, right? So this is someone who's like, yeah, I've struggled my weight, my whole life. And you'll often hear this from clients. This person,

Starting point is 00:07:20 oftentimes never really even feels what really, what hunger really feels like. What they feel is discomfort from not medicating with food. And so to this person feeling hungry or what they perceive to be hunger, which it's not hunger, it's so uncomfortable and they've constantly muted it or they've always muted it with food that it's just,

Starting point is 00:07:41 it just, this doesn't feel right. And to them they'll say, I'm starving. I'm totally starving. I have cravings, which cravings are different than hunger. in other cases you'll have people who have chronically underate. This is, and oftentimes this is a female, not always, but oftentimes. And this is the girl that is dieted for years and years and years, ate really low calories, overtrained, oftentimes lots of cardio or high intensity type exercise.

Starting point is 00:08:11 And then when they try to eat or when you coach them to eat appropriately, they'll come back and say, I feel uncomfortable. I feel like, in fact, some of them will even say they feel bloated. And the conversations I've had with people around this is I'll start to point out what bloat actually feels like. And they'll say, well, I don't know. I don't think it's digestive issues.

Starting point is 00:08:32 Like, well, I think what you're feeling is you're actually eating. And you're constantly, you're used to feeling empty. Yeah. And to you feeling empty is now a source of comfort. And so anything other than that feels like too much. This can also manifest with. exercise. Yeah. Where if you're not beating yourself up or feeling exhausted, it's not enough.

Starting point is 00:08:55 It's not enough. It's never enough. That's where I was going with this is just like that propensity to increase intensity. You're just drawn to it. It's a feeling. You know, it's a soreness. It's a sweat. It's a, you have all these sort of gauges that you're looking for. That brings you value from the workout when in fact, like you tend to overdo it. you're not actually progressing. So, you know, progressing isn't even a metric for you. It's like the feeling and like what you're getting out of that, that pain. That also going to be really insidious too because many times you also connect that with the best

Starting point is 00:09:29 shape you ever been in your life. Yeah. Because many times people were doing that when they're in college or high school or playing a sport or like that was, they were at peak movement and training. And so they have this identity to that like, man, that's when I looked great, felt great. Therefore, that's how I should. Same rules apply. That's how I should train.

Starting point is 00:09:47 And so that's really tough. And not only those feelings that you get endorphins that you get, the cortisol spike you get, all that of accomplishment that you get when you walk out of the gym feeling that way. But you've also connected that way of training with, oh, that was when I was in the best. I had that conversation with someone recently where this woman was a high level athlete. So, and by the way, high level athletes or should I say X high level athletes. So this is someone like in college, maybe your high school competed at high. level. Sometimes it can be very, I would say they're sometimes among the hardest people to coach because they've identified. They're hardwired in them. So I was talking with her and she was like,

Starting point is 00:10:29 man, I used to train like this all the time. And I said, were you 40? She's like, well, no. I said, did you have kids? No. Did you have a mortgage? No. Did you have a job? No. I said, it's not the same. It is not the same. And oftentimes we got in the quote unquote best shape of life in spite of the fact that I was just going to say so it's not even just that it's that if you actually trained better when you were in 20s you and you were to perform better where you thought you were in the best shape of your life you actually could have been even better than what you were and that's the part that's hard for people to connect that dot yes it's it's it's very very difficult and so this is why you know part of coaching is learning how to read these signals and then when you

Starting point is 00:11:10 listen to your body then you're actually listening to your body and not to you know signals that are taking in the wrong direction. So I think the first step with this is to identify your challenges and to really be objective. All right, what are my challenges? I've always struggled with being overweight or my fear, I should say. This is where I think challenges, this is how you should label your challenge. What are my fears? My fears are, I'm going to get fat again. Or my fears are, I'm not going to build enough muscle. Or my fears are, and write them out, write down what they, because those are what's driving a lot of this. Identify these, put them out, And this is the beginning of moving in the right direction.

Starting point is 00:11:49 Now, for me, I'll use myself again as an example. You talked about this with workouts, Justin. I have learned to identify that when I feel at the end of my workout that I could do a lot more than I'm done. That is not how I used to measure my workouts. My workouts used to be measured. If I feel like I can do more, I didn't do enough. Now, at the end, if I start to feel like, ooh, I'm totally. I'm posted. Oops, I went too far.

Starting point is 00:12:17 So now I know if I end my workout and I feel like, oh, I could have done another 30 minutes. I'm probably doing the right amount. And so I had to kind of identify those channels. So write those down for yourself. What are your fear? So another way to put it is like I'm talking to someone. They've chronically under eight. I'm trying to get them to reverse diet.

Starting point is 00:12:37 And I'll always ask them, what are you afraid of by bumping your calories or eating more? What's the big fear? Like, I'm going to gain a bunch of weight. Okay. let's write that down because that's actually driving that's behind the steering wheel right now when you identify that the next thing this is the most difficult is to follow someone else's plan so this is how we coach our coaches we tell our coaches and this is just true the most important thing that you can focus on with your client more important than the strategy and the workout and the diet and the

Starting point is 00:13:12 information is trust. They have to totally trust you because they're going to be leaning on you and not on themselves. So you have, so following someone else's plan will allow you to do this. You will get a workout plan. Let's say you get a Maps program that's appropriate for you, but for most of you, it's not Maps aesthetic. It's not MapS split. It's not the crazy ones that we have. It's probably like Maps Anabolic, maybe Muscle Mommy, probably 40 plus for many people, 15, Maps 15. And you'll just follow it and not do what you've

Starting point is 00:13:47 always done. So you'll trust somebody else's well written plan and structure and then stick to it and not follow what you've always done in the past, which hasn't worked. There was another like point to the earlier one about like fears

Starting point is 00:14:03 and one of them, you know, for me and for it's you don't want to look weak or you don't like when you're when you're doing these lifts Like you don't want to do what's right for you because it's like, I'm going to go a little bit more because then I don't look like a total pus. And so that being said, like in terms of following somebody else's plan, I think that helps psychologically. It's like, I'm doing this deliberately as it's laid out. So I'm removing my own sort of bias and emphasis on this.

Starting point is 00:14:34 It's like I'm just going to do this and trust that it's going to. Can I just add to this just for you, Justin, because it's so funny. When we, we don't do this off, actually almost never now, but in the early days of mind pump, we were the ones that were the exercise models for our videos. So we would, if we did an exercise demo, we would be the ones doing it. Oh, you're going to throw me a mess. And, you know, when you do this, you want your form to be perfect. The weight you use is doesn't matter.

Starting point is 00:15:00 It doesn't matter how much we use. A lot of fitness people use fake weights. Yeah, yeah. It's just, you just, it's just about your technique, right? Yeah. We should have done that. Justin would just throw the weight on. I'm like, bro, you're not working out.

Starting point is 00:15:12 I'm not doing this with 20s. Hey, not to mention you, you might have to do 15 takes of this. Yeah, yeah. A lot of reps that hold and he's like, wait a minute, I didn't get the shot. Yeah, take the 45s off, bro. So it is very, it is very difficult. Yeah, follow someone else's plan. Well, that's also part of identifying that this is a challenge for you is admitting that, hey,

Starting point is 00:15:33 I've tried to do this thing on my own for years or decades. And obviously, I've gotten here. and haven't figured out, like, how about I just own that having somebody else guide me through this is probably a better strategy. And so I think that's why, one, is so important to identify that challenge that you've had for so long. And then the next is to surrender to the process and go, like, okay, what if I just let a professional guide me through this and see what it looks like? So important. You know how much of these coaching calls are like that when I hop on with our trainers? I tell them, I say to them literally, I'll say to them, you're going to feel uncomfortable.

Starting point is 00:16:10 this is going to suck. You're going to think you're not doing enough. You're going to think you're eating too much. I need just do what we tell you and trust us. And then we won't have to ask you again because then you'll start to see over time that it's working and then you'll see. But in the beginning, don't trust yourself.

Starting point is 00:16:25 Just trust us. You also want to use and track things that you can measure that are objective. So what is that? Am I stronger? Am I stronger? Am I able to perform the lifts better? do I am is my sleep better do I have more energy and then connect that to the feelings that are telling you to do more what I mean by that is wait a minute I just added 10 pounds give you an example I just added 10 pounds to my squat but I feel like I should be doing way more okay my feelings are wrong yeah let me just let me just read these objective measures for now and stick with these because it's especially strength is a hard one to argue with like if you're stronger is it working it's working yeah so whatever

Starting point is 00:17:08 whatever you think you're doing or you're not doing. I'm being greedy. Yeah, exactly. It's hard to tell people this, but, you know, avoid the mirror and the scale at all cost. Yeah. It just... They lie, ma'am. They lie big time.

Starting point is 00:17:21 And many times clients are on the right track and they're deceived by what they see in the mirror and they're deceived by what they see in the scale because the progress just doesn't work that way. And you would think, well, wait a second. If I'm working out, I'm doing that, I should look better in the mirror. Well, yeah, theoretically, yes, but a bad night of sleep and watch how puffy you are. Coming off your period, watch how puffy you are. Eat something that your body didn't agree with, digestive-wise. Watch how puffy you are.

Starting point is 00:17:50 And that puffiness ends up looking like I put on body fat. And people freak out and coarse correct when reality, everything they were doing was okay and they would be just fine. Same thing works with a scale. All those things that I just listed also retain and hold water. and easily the scale stays the same or maybe even goes up a pound or two. Even though you're getting leaner.

Starting point is 00:18:11 Even though you're building muscle, getting leaner, getting stronger, and then you course correct. And so for most people that are in this situation that we're talking about, like this is something you don't want, don't want to pay too close attention to because it many times will steer you in the wrong direction.

Starting point is 00:18:28 Totally. You want to question your urges. Your urges are going to feel frantic. That's what they're going to feel like. Impulsive, frantic. It's like you're jerking the steering wheel while you're driving straight and you just want to swerve even though, you know, the numbers are, you know, I'm stronger. I feel better. I'm trusting my coach or I'm trusting this program that was written by, you know, by good coaches.

Starting point is 00:18:56 Question your urges every time they come because this is a process of relearning how to develop a relationship with fitness that actually serves you. Okay. So again, if you look back at your relationship to fitness, if it was a stressful, spotty, on and off relationship, we have to build a new relationship. And it doesn't happen overnight. So a lot of it's going to be questioning those urges and those impulses when they come up and bring an awareness to them. And then finally, you check in with trusted friends. So these are not the people in your life that don't want to see you do well, that compete with you all the time. You know they are. But the. But the. These are the people you actually trust. I can't tell you how many times I would have a client come to me with all these fears. And then I would, I used to, I learned, in fact, I learned that this was a coaching method. And I'd say to, you know, Ms. Johnson comes in and she's, you know, I don't know if it's working, whatever. What does your husband say? What is your husband saying right now?

Starting point is 00:19:54 Yeah. Oh, well, he says I look really good. And do you think he's lying to you? Well, I think maybe he's just trying to make me feel better. I think he's being honest with you. I think he's telling you, because I could tell you're looking really good. So check in with those friends that you're trusting to say, you know, I'm freaking out a little bit. What do you think?

Starting point is 00:20:10 Do you think I'm moving in the right direction? Do I look like I'm healthier? Objectively, yeah. You know, the best check-ins in my opinion are the people that you trust like that that you don't see for 30 days. Yeah. Like nothing like a sister, brother, mother, somebody in-law that's close to you, that loves you, that just hasn't seen you for a 30-day window while you've been on this path to, like, really be able to tell their. Sometimes husbands and wives who see each other every single day seem to like, I mean, they typically will still say something positive, but maybe they don't see as much of a change because you're seeing that person change before your eye every day.

Starting point is 00:20:44 And it's different versus the aunt or sister-in-law or someone who hadn't seen you in 30 days. And they go, oh, my God, you look great. What are you doing? What are my asshole friends is something nice. Then I'm like, I'm on to something, dude. That's random. It never happens to you. What's going on here?

Starting point is 00:21:01 Yeah, killing it. I know. I love it. Anyway, Adam, I was going to ask it because yesterday you had me do, we haven't done, it's the season. Yeah. You had me mix you up a Christmas blend from Organify. Every day right now. The red juice and the green juice.

Starting point is 00:21:11 Every day now. So it's every day. Well, a couple things. Obviously, you brought up on one of the last podcast, what I'm going through. So still in the fire, unbelievable. This is for people to know your withdrawal from, yeah. I mean, oh, yeah. If you're up to date on the podcast, you know, if you don't, that's what's going on.

Starting point is 00:21:30 Does it help? It does. Well, so something I did. and disclose on the podcast that obviously why I was kicking something that I thought would be, you know, the fight of my life, uh, I may as well get rid of all the things I think are a cake walk. So, uh, weed, caffeine, everything's going. And so this is such, this is, listen, that's the most Adam thing of everyone. I don't know why you do that. You, you're like on fire. You're like, you're like, hey, you're like, hey, can I, hey, over there? Pour some gas. Can you throw some gas on me?

Starting point is 00:21:59 That's right. Let's just go. Let's just go. I mean, I'm, well, the weed thing was easy. That's nothing to me. So that's, but caffeine too. Caffeine, I, so what I've done is I, I dropped off a, I'm doing that methodically. Okay. So, I mean, you can see my Celsius next to me. So I'm, like, where does you got Celsius there? And the way I'm doing that is, so typically when I would drive to work, I would have my first energy drink or coffee. That's replaced now with the Christmas blend. And it really, like, I swear, I don't notice I have any. anything less. I'm already 200 milligrams down. Awesome. And I don't feel it. I tried to, I actually, being honest, I was like, I did kind

Starting point is 00:22:39 of go cold turkey for a few days. And I was like, man, I've got a lot of headaches right now. I don't want to add a nerve. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. It's, I'm already miserable. And then I, I, I remember drinking like a little drink. And then like, it's, it went away. I'm like, okay, maybe I, maybe I'll do that one a little bit slower. So, yeah, that was probably not the best idea. We didn't even skip a beat. That wasn't hard for me at all. Caffeine, though, I thought I was going to rip the band-aid off. I figured, I'm feeling like shit. May as well go all the way. And then I went, yeah, these headaches are a little worse than I wanted while everything else felt terrible. So I did reintroduce some of it back. I've had some days where I only do one,

Starting point is 00:23:18 but I've consistently removed one completely off. And the first thing I do in the morning is I have the green juice and the red juice together. And I tell you what, I'm excited that, I'm, you know, And I got myself stocked up at the house to make sure so I have no excuses. And it's actually been a really nice way to start. So I think I'm going to try and continue that as my first drink, regardless of what I do, caffeine in the future, if I cut out completely or I... It's adaptogenic. So the reason why it feels so good is you have both the red juice and the green juice are adaptogenic.

Starting point is 00:23:52 So the red juice with rodeola and other compounds and the green juice with Ashwaganda. Yeah. Rodeola is more up stimulating, Ashwagana more relaxing. Yeah. But they're both adaptogenic, well-studied, adapted. And right now your body's going through a lot of stress. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:07 Which is probably why it feels so good. It feels, yeah, a lot of times I'm actually having it twice in a day. But I definitely start every morning now with it. And the blend actually tastes good. It does. I think it sounds like a weird blend, but the red and the green juice to combine together is a great mix. So, yeah, it's starting off every day right now.

Starting point is 00:24:26 So to be continued. Did I share on the podcast my experience in L.A. with Brad, I know I shared with you guys with Bradley Martin, but did I share it on the show? I don't think I did it. No, you just released the clip.

Starting point is 00:24:38 I watched the episode. I don't know if anybody else did. I watched it. Yeah. I watched the whole thing. Yeah, you told me. You sent me some really, really nice encouraging text.

Starting point is 00:24:45 Yeah, it was incredible. Well, I'll tell you, this is where things get weird for me, man. And this is just, you know, spiritual alert for people are weird about that. But I'll just share. like, Brad, the Bradley, Raw talk with Bradley Martin

Starting point is 00:24:59 was the first public, the first time I had publicly given my testimony, how I became a Christian. It was the first time I said it publicly. It was a bit scary. But I did it. And I remember when I, this was a year and a half ago,

Starting point is 00:25:13 maybe. When I was on his show and I gave it, I remember he sits forward in his chair, takes his hat off, and I could tell something was pulling at him. And we had some conversations afterwards. But then that was a, it, right? And then after that, I obviously

Starting point is 00:25:26 I haven't had any fears over being public with my faith or any that stuff. But it was the first time I did it. Anyway, we had rescheduled me to go down to L.A. to be on some podcasts and one of them was his. And leading up to it, I had this like, do I bring it up? Do I bring up? Like, and ask him about

Starting point is 00:25:46 if anything's happened with him and this and talk about, you know, faith. Remember, this is raw talk. So anybody's familiar with this podcast. This is not like a, you don't talk about these things on a show. And it's his podcast. It's more likely to be gambling only fans or something else. You know, off air, you know, people who know, off air, like Bradley's a really smart guy. I love talking with him.

Starting point is 00:26:09 And, but I just felt like this stirring, but I felt really discouraged. I was feeling really dark. Like what I kept hearing, I was like, don't stay in your lane. That's stupid. Shut up. Talk fitness. Just a lot of crap. And this was the night before.

Starting point is 00:26:22 I had gone to L.A. to spend the night so I could wake up early in the morning. morning and then do this like podcast circuit. And this is the thing that I wanted to share. That was just, just for people, you know, who've experienced this. It's just weird. This happens all the time now. But it's really, really weird. I woke up at 5.30 that morning. And I had gotten a text at 427 a.m. for my friend Tim. And remember the night before and the day before I was feeling like, don't say anything. Who are you? Like, all this like really discouraging, just terrible thoughts. I wake up, it says,

Starting point is 00:26:56 Hey, Sal, apologize for the strange text, but God has had your name pop up in my heart this morning. I don't know why or for what, but the only word I keep getting is encourage. And I woke up to that. I'm like, oh, what? Like this kind of stuff has been happening.

Starting point is 00:27:11 So I get on his show, and it wasn't, that's all we talked about for the full hour. And it was a great conversation. It was really, really great. I felt not confident at all, which I said, say it's great because for me, that's great.

Starting point is 00:27:26 I never don't feel confident on camera or talking. In fact, I feel too prideful. So sitting there talking in a way was just, so it's new for me, but it was, it was, it was awesome. It was really good. It was an incredible conversation, very authentic the way it flowed. I thought he asked good, hard questions. There were real questions. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:46 There were good, hard questions. I think, you know, for someone who wasn't prepared really for that, I thought you did a great job answering and responding to him. It was a good conversation. It would be interesting to see the people respond. I'm most curious about him post because my experience with him post is he's this great emotional guy, says all these things, and then he kind of just, he kind of disappears off in the wind.

Starting point is 00:28:12 And has he continued to converse with you or ask you questions? Yeah, we text. And, you know, he is a good guy. it is, I can't imagine what it would be like to be in his shoes. He was the original... What do you mean you can't imagine when it said to be? Well, I'll tell, let me explain. He was young when it first happened to him.

Starting point is 00:28:32 Yeah. He was the first like fitness influencer dude. Like, he was really one of the first ones. Yeah. Blew up that way. Yeah. Got lots of attention for his, you know... Antics. Antics. His body. Lots of attention.

Starting point is 00:28:49 Built a business around it. Very successful business. So, but when you meet him off there, there's so much more to him than those types of things. So that's got to feel like a struggle. And when I was on his show, he talked about this a little bit too, that you reach, and you've talked about this out, all of us have experienced this. But I've heard you talk a lot about this. You'll get these things that you think are going to make you feel a particular way, whether it's money or fame or respect that you think.

Starting point is 00:29:18 And then you're like, this is empty. This is not giving me what I thought. And that's kind of a little bit about, you know, what we talked a little bit about on his podcast. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like he's wrestled with this for years, though, now. I mean, the very first time we, so we've now done, we did his podcast collectively, like, six years ago? Six years ago. And that was like the, where he was at in his life back then. So, I mean, you're talking about six years later. You've been on there twice since then. Each time he kind of expresses this, he's obviously wrestling and turn. with this. He obviously has this. I mean, I mean, this to me is what's, it's, I don't think enough people on the outside realize how, and we talked a little bit just recently, so not to, not to beat a dead horse here, because I did just bring this up on the podcast that, you know, that these people become the algorithm. They, they experience fame and attention and love and adoration for this character

Starting point is 00:30:22 that they build. And I don't, I think all of them come with a very pure intention originally, like of, like, hey, you know, I'm going to put myself out there, give good information, share with people, share my life, do this stuff. And then, but what's, well, how it creeps in is, you know, the algorithm tells you like, oh, this gets you more attention. And that gets you more attention. And the people are coming around you or because of that.

Starting point is 00:30:45 Yeah. And then you get more of that. And it's just like this snowball effect. And, and, you know, the first time you do something. something that kind of goes viral that you, you manufactured or you did. It's like, it wasn't really totally myself.

Starting point is 00:30:59 I mean, it was me, but I mean, I also staged this or did that. And then so, and you justify it because whatever reason. And then you just, it's just,

Starting point is 00:31:07 this slow drift. And then you wake up six years later, super famous. Everybody knows your name and you're around. We got millions of followers. You're making millions of dollars. And you don't know who you are. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:20 And. Extreme example. that is liver king. Oh, yeah. That really twisted him. Really twisted him. I mean, I think the only reason why that's an extreme example is because of the Netflix documentary, however, but I think there's tens of thousands examples right in front of

Starting point is 00:31:36 everybody. Everybody listening right now is following hundreds of these people. Yeah. Hundreds of them. At least hundreds, if not thousands of them you're following. Yeah. That have gained all this popularity and fame online through doing things that feed the algorithm.

Starting point is 00:31:52 We see this with a lot of the modalities in like real strong stances towards like this method or this nutrition. Yes. And it's just very like they've leaned into it so hard. They've cornered it. Yeah. I can't get out. Paul Saladino.

Starting point is 00:32:07 Yeah. Carnival. And then he comes out and he's like, hey, I have honey. And then boom, gets hammered by his people. And maybe throw a little fruit in. Boom, gets hammered by his people. Yeah. Dr.

Starting point is 00:32:15 McCola, he was the keto guy. Yes. He was the no carb. Carbs are bad guy. I literally just posted an article about how avoiding carbs all the time is bad for your thyroid. Yeah, well, almost. You know? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:31 And to this discussion, it's like it almost makes it unreasonable for them to be reasonable, you know, because they don't get any kind of benefit to that. Because the more like crazy stance they take, the more like opposition, the more views, attention and all that. And people they draw into their camp. And so it's like, it really doesn't benefit them to be, you know, to entertain like a more of a nuanced approach. I mean, to me, it's what we're watching right now in real time for us and our generation in particular was here before and is here now and we'll be here after. But it's the changing of the guard for celebrity. Yeah. And we talk all the time about how fucked up celebrities are, right?

Starting point is 00:33:15 They're the ones that commit suicide, get on all these drug rehab, things like that. but this is the new celebrity is is social media and the ability to do it and everybody thinks they want it because it seems so sexy right now one of the things i i don't know one of the things i'm been most proud about and thank god that we were in our early 30s when we started this that we kind of were on the other side of like like no i don't want that kind of attention like that that didn't sound sexy to any of us so much to the point that when we created all the all of our names it was business first than us and all we talk about off air is like can't wait the day that I can just shut my shit my shit down.

Starting point is 00:33:53 You know what else is the opposite of what we see? You want to know what else was the saving grace? Hmm. Is that and this is just, I think this is just a total blessing. We're surrounded because of each other by guys that will not allow that to happen. Right, right. We will call each other out. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:12 Right. Imagine if it was by yourself. Yeah, yeah. And you're doing it all on your own. without... I wish more people had that like built-in accountability. I know what would happen

Starting point is 00:34:20 if my... You know, if it started to blow up for me, for sure, one of you guys or all of you guys are going to let me know and I'm going to get it

Starting point is 00:34:28 and same thing for you guys. A lot of people don't have that. And so they're just on their own. That makes, you know, since you're talking about Bradley Martin his show, it makes me so curious. Remember he had his two close friends

Starting point is 00:34:39 that were a part of his business early on that no longer are... Yeah. ...and I wonder if that was part of that stuff. I don't know. Yeah, because it is, it is helpful having your boys close to you to rein you back in if we were to think that. Although, I don't know. I mean, you're most likely we would have to rain you in, but I don't feel like we had to do that.

Starting point is 00:35:01 What rained me in. Right? I mean, he's most likely the one we'd have to rain in. Well, I think all of us in different ways. I mean, all of us in different ways, you know, we'd have to get rained in. We'll just silent voice in this. Yeah, I'll just speak to, look, I'll just speak to myself. I respect you guys.

Starting point is 00:35:16 I respect you guys so much that you don't have to say much, but I also trust that you would if it got a little out of, you know, got out of hand. Yeah, yeah. You know, but we all kind of have little checks and balances, and we all respect each other. And so that's what I'm saying about the blessing. Like, we've never had, I mean, have you ever had to? What I mean by you are most likely, not your personality, but of who you have to be on the show. Sure.

Starting point is 00:35:40 So the brand is built around you. So the, you are, you are the, you are forward facing the. the most from the brand. So you're more likely. So I don't mean by your person. I mean like it's more likely your ego would get fed the most in that area. And I think that you've resisted that since day one. For sure.

Starting point is 00:35:59 You know, I think that you take that position because you recognize your best in that position. And Justin and I and Doug aren't here to argue that. Right. No, I should be the guy. I should be the guy. I wouldn't be the guy. You know. Like, dude.

Starting point is 00:36:16 So I think that it works. Like if, I mean, if there was three Bradley Martin sitting here, right? Yeah. There would probably be a lot more pool of like, you know, I could be the guy or I want to be the guy. But I think, I really think people need. It is unique. I try. I've communicated this to my kids.

Starting point is 00:36:33 Not that they care, but I think it's important. Attention like that is a curse. Hell yes, it is. I bet if you took 100 people and you gave all 100 of them sudden. social media fame that 99 of them or maybe a hundred of them would turn out worse from it. It is not a good. And what's crazy to me about this? The world glorifies celebrities even with their, like you talk about like their brilliance

Starting point is 00:37:04 committed suicide at 24, overdosed at 30. And we're talking about how amazing they were and brilliant they were, not the tragedy and how terrible. and not identifying like Marilyn Monroe would have probably been better off had she not gotten famous. You know, Jimmy Hendricks probably would have been better off had he not gotten famous, you know? So I think it's a curse probably always, and, you know, especially if you're young. Oh, my God. Imagine if you're young and you get this confirmation that you're so awesome.

Starting point is 00:37:35 All our idols growing up were the, you know, they got fame real quick and they were known for their thing. they were the best of their thing, they died, and they left us. And that was like, and we worship them. Yes. That's crazy. That was everybody. It's a fake love, that's why.

Starting point is 00:37:50 Yeah. It's not a real love, right? Like, you know, this weekend was my birthday weekend, right? So I was with a very small, close-knit group of friends. And, you know, it's not publicly shared. It's not anybody. Nobody else knows about it. It's like, and the love in the room is undeniable and goes all the way back to where I was a kid and stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:38:09 And I've also been in rooms where we have. hundreds of people there to see us and lining up for hours to talk and meet us. And it's a, it feeds the ego. Sure. In that moment. And, and maybe some of those people's, oh, I love you and say things with it, but it's, it's not real love. It's not like, those people don't know all, all of me or all my faults or all of who I am, you know what I'm saying? They know me from a personality on a, on a podcast that, for an hour, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's, it's a different time. And I think it's easy to, to fall in the trap to thinking that's real love. And then you fall in love with that and then it turns on you and then then you all sudden are like wait these

Starting point is 00:38:46 people all love me now they say these mean things about me and they are like and it can flip and on the internet world it can flip on a dime like that oh god or just imagine if you're adored by millions of people because of your beauty and then you get old yeah wow what a hard fall that would be what what's my value who am i you know i'm getting old now that's why you see celebrities with the sometimes you'll see it's real weird You're like, what did he do to his face? Isn't somebody telling them that they don't look human anymore with all the procedures? Do you guys think that we'll see?

Starting point is 00:39:17 Because we don't, most kids today don't want to be a movie star or a TV star, right? They want to be an influencer. They want to be an influencer, right? But do you think that's because they, and do you think the reason why they don't want to be a movie star or a superstar? Do you think that because enough people have seen the rehab shows? No, I just think the new celebrities are social media. Yeah, that's all. So you still, so you still.

Starting point is 00:39:40 So you think that the. still there's, it's the same. Like, I feel like it's more well known all the issues that celebrities have, or am I on my off base? They still are glorified. They're still totally glorified. It's still about how great they were at this one thing, whether it's a sport or playing music or fashion or whatever. And because of the attention that the world puts on this and elevates them, you think that that's it. It's just the size of the screen that's changed, really. Yeah. That's about it.

Starting point is 00:40:13 Wow, good way to say it. Screen sizes changed, but nothing's changed. Yeah, it's the same game. It's wild, man. I was just at the Brandon Lake concert yesterday. You guys know Brandon Lake. Oh, you went to it? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:24 Where was it at? SAP Center. Oh, it was. Right here in San Jose. Was awesome. It was so. How many Christian concerts are you made now? I think you're like, five now?

Starting point is 00:40:34 Four? Yeah, for that. Ask me how many concerts I went to before. I was just going to say, we couldn't get you out a concert for a decade. Now I said you've gone to five. Crowl. I was laughing. Because there's this like band called Skillet and they're like a Christian great. But like... Wait, wait. Skillet's considered Christian?

Starting point is 00:40:49 Oh yeah. Are you kidding me? Skillet. Skillet. Is Christian. Forever. What? Yeah. Oh, yeah. The same skillet. No way, bro. Yeah. It's a rock band. But yeah. Anyways, they're like just a basic rock band, but they just came out with like a Christmas song and they had like a breakdown, like a heavy metal break down. Me and my friends were dying

Starting point is 00:41:10 because it's like, you know, like they got all like heavy all of a sudden. We're like, this skillet? Monster, awake, all that? Yeah, yeah. Really? Yeah. It's this. Dude, that's great. No, it was it. Yeah. You're going to get us.

Starting point is 00:41:24 Really? I had no idea they were a Christian fan. Dude, I got to tell you guys. Anyways. Sorry. Sorry. You're just like, I know me too. I mean, I've been listening to them forever. I just didn't. I'd never. Well, yeah. A lot of them start out. Like, I mean, so like evanescence or like And they kind of like, you know.

Starting point is 00:41:39 Yeah, now I'm going to like really listen to the lyrics harder. Like, I don't think I, I mean, I just love the beat in a lot of the stuff. Like, I mean, I listen to it with Max all the time. They were around like, because like the POD era. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, this is again, this is back when we were like. They've also done a lot of cool collabs too. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:55 They've done some sick collabs. So we've seen, we've seen quite a few concerts. Well, Brandon Lake's unapologetic. His lyric is straight. He's, no, no, he's like. But he's mainstream, right? You guys, I mean, you guys have seen. His music's hit the top of the charts.

Starting point is 00:42:06 It was such a great environment. It was just wonderful. So many people praising and just a great, great. I love that environment. At the end, he's asking people if they want to come to Christ and you have all these people raise their hand. But anyway, at one point, he's at the front and he's like, hey, he's like, I'm not supposed to. This was unplanned. He goes, but I saw this guy's Instagram.

Starting point is 00:42:28 He was singing some of my music and I see him in the front row and I want to go up to him. He walks up to him. There's this guy that performs with our. worship team at church. His name is Isaac. And he was born with some kind of genetic disorder where he's in a wheelchair. His bones are very frail. He's in his little guy. But he's got this wonderful voice. And he sings on a worship team. And it was him. No way. He brings the mic up to him like, Isaac? That's our, that guy sings at our church. And he's saying one of the songs, you know, to one of Brandon Lake songs to the whole arena. No way. It was so wild to see him,

Starting point is 00:43:05 dude. It was so great. Oh, how cool. Bro, that kid, let me tell you about him. He has, he's just, he's this great singer, great performer. He released this one song that in the, in the Christian world, went pretty well, went really well. But when I first saw him on stage, he tells a story, and he said this line that got me so choked up. He said, the very lungs that the doctor said would not survive and be able to take a breath. Now can praise the Lord in song. And he sings. I was like, oh my God, But he comes out and it was just so cool to see this kid with his whole family.

Starting point is 00:43:38 How random of all the people that he's seen? Yeah. Does that kid have a big following? I guess on TikTok he does. Because I mean, I'm surprised. He does, right, Dylan? Yeah, he's got a big following. Did you know that before?

Starting point is 00:43:49 I didn't know he had such a big following. Oh, so that's so funny. I just know when I hear him sing on stage, he does a great job. That's really crazy small. Did a lot of people from the, you guys' church go? Well, we took it, we went with a group of people from church. And then I ran into people. And then I saw some fans, some mind pump fans.

Starting point is 00:44:04 Yeah, I ran out. up to me. Oh, okay. Yeah, it was really, really cool. It was a good time, man. I'm going to be going to more of those. Speaking of music, you're going to like this, Justin. Study comes out with, and you're always talking about, or you often talk, I'll pull up the study, of how music is just so beneficial for us. Oh, yeah. So this is a... I'm very affected by it. This study came out of Monash University, and it says, this is the summary. Older adults who regularly listen to music or play music appear to have significantly

Starting point is 00:44:36 lower risks of dementia and cognitive decline. The data suggests that musical engagement could be a powerful, enjoyable tool for supporting cognitive resilience and aging. And I believe this. I believe this because I've seen

Starting point is 00:44:52 the data on how music engages and lights up the brain. Nothing lights up the brain and engages the entire brain, the way that music does. Like both the logical, the creative, the mathematical. Is it more than what you think that, that attributes to more of like right brain activity

Starting point is 00:45:11 that's not getting activated? Like, being that most people are pretty left brain and their like focus is very much like, you know, and tasks oriented and like getting things done and very. Well, you, yeah, yes, maybe, but also listening to music gets people to learn math faster. I know. It gets people to do things that you would consider like these logical, linear. Music is math. If you break it down.

Starting point is 00:45:40 The beats, the sounds. I mean, you can make it as a formula. AIs figure it out. It makes music now. And the way it makes music is not because it's creative because it knows the formula. And think about how it affects your memory. You listen to lyric. You'll remember.

Starting point is 00:45:53 You're ABCs. Yeah. Everything. Yeah, yeah. So I think it's so cool that they're connecting it to the, what's wild to me is how we take music out of schools. because we thought it wasn't valuable. Not all schools.

Starting point is 00:46:03 Yeah. Not all schools. They're bringing it back in a lot of schools. Yeah, no, dude. I mean, you keep hearing me talk about ours. I think it's crazy. All song, dude. All songs.

Starting point is 00:46:11 Kids are all the stuff that he learns or songs. That was the big thing that I, that number blocks. When I told everybody about that, that cartoon was like huge for Max because they sing all the numbers. So when he was super little, he was like doing all this crazy math. I don't think he knew the math he was doing until later on. Do you know how people before,

Starting point is 00:46:30 people, because books, when the printing press came out, everybody, you know, most people could get a book. But before that, the only people that could afford books were people who had a lot of money, because it took a lot of work to write one book. He had to be written by hand. The way that people passed on knowledge information was song. And it was so accurate. It's so accurate that decades or hundreds of years later, when they finally wrote it down, there was nothing lost. Because people were seeing these. Song and story. Yeah, dude. Two most people. powerful ways to communicate. What's even more trippy, though, is like to think to do that.

Starting point is 00:47:05 Where'd that come from? Yeah, like the first... Well, I know where it came from, but I mean, I think as even as someone, you know, just scientifically minded it, it is wild. Yes. It is really wild how music does that. Yeah. It's like we've unpacked that and like we have the science now to break all that down,

Starting point is 00:47:20 but it's like, you know, some cave dude said that to it. Oh, you know, there was something crazy that I was looking at over the weekend. And it was like a video. They're describing about backwards speak and how the CIA was like, you know, really interested in this. And I had no idea. So back in the 70s, you remember with that whole thing with like Led Zeppelin? You play it backwards.

Starting point is 00:47:43 You kind of hear like, oh, I worship Satan. Yeah, yeah. You know, crazy stuff like that or like. So they started to go through. There's a guy that's like famously was trying to kind of like take public figures, politicians and then break down their speeches and then like find areas where you could hear phrases and so you can actually find backward speak within and so there was like I mean it's very pseudoscience and all this and it's been like kind of rejected but like sometimes it's just

Starting point is 00:48:15 like nails like you're like weird like the moon landing stuff like that like and you'll get like Neil Armstrong and he'll go through a speech and do a backward speech and it's just like you know I'm a fraud and like no way Yeah, and it's like, this is all fake. And it's all like, it's really, really interesting. But what's interesting is that the CIA was the only one that still really cares about it and uses this and has been able to extract some of this from like planning of terrorist attempts and, you know, true intention of certain politicians. And then so I just thought it, I never had had heard about this being that like your subconscious actually has a voice of its own. And it's like you're you're kind of communicating that to yourself.

Starting point is 00:48:59 Oh, you know. So that's what they're trying to break down. You want to know. So by the way, for people who are like, okay, whatever, CIA, they get so much funding, both on the books and off the books. Yeah. That they find places to spend money. They've done wild things with it.

Starting point is 00:49:14 That we know of. Men who stare at goats, you know, like you've heard about all this. Yes. My favorite, like whatever conspiracy theory is how the large Hadron Collider is being used to communicate to people from other or beings from other dimensions. It's basically a Stargate. Yeah, and we're giving,

Starting point is 00:49:33 you know, getting information from them and all that stuff. Well, there's another, okay, I really got into like, if you guys ever watched a show the Y files? No. Oh, it's great. But the guy really breaks down, like,

Starting point is 00:49:45 information, factual information. Then he has, like, a part at the end where he's like, he debunks it all, or he's like, there's some truth to this part of it, you know, and so he's at least somewhat measured. with it all, but like he was talking about these Sumerian, they're like, I don't know how they make cuneiform where they're like these, these, it's etched into these rollers. And you can like roll it on clay. Oh, so it writes out. It writes out the. And so apparently there was a bunch of these different

Starting point is 00:50:15 ones scattered, you know, throughout Sumeria or Iraq or wherever that is. And then apparently like, there's this whole like conspiracy where you know us getting into iraq was actually to try to acquire these because they they they they told uh that the technical means to to to create some of those like stargates oh like open up sickly cage movie to me i know that's what i thought i was like dude this is totally like one of those sci-fi natural treasure i was hooked i'm like my kind of shit right here that's awesome yeah i love that i mean how much is I always trip out on like, because we get excited. I mean, shoot, we have, we have an ad today with Juve and I trip out on the science of that.

Starting point is 00:51:04 It's just like. That sounds like magic. Yeah. It's like, but it's from like the 40s. You know what I'm saying? That's all verified. Yeah. You shine a red light on you and you get those health benefits.

Starting point is 00:51:12 Yeah, well, it's radiation. That's it. It's red light radiation. It actually works. And then the data on it's been like decades. Exactly. My point of attaching it to your conspiracy theory conversation here is just like, we're, we're like the science that gets trickled to us that we get all excited about.

Starting point is 00:51:25 like today is with it. It's like that was so long ago. And it's like what what's so what's cutting edge right now that you have no idea as cutting edge because you don't get to know what it is. I mean, you know, we won't even get released to you for like, isn't there how long is it going to take till it's proven, you know, like, because you know, sometimes like you know that there's some bits of truth in it, but like like how long, you know, how many years is, are we going to be able to like come into that technology? Well, the Blackbird was it the S. Yes, it was like 50 years earlier. Yeah, invented in the 70, like 71.

Starting point is 00:51:56 And I think we found out, like, way later. Yeah. Maybe even before. It was like the fastest, still, I think it's still considered the fastest, that we know of, the fastest plane. It's like, it's funny. For me, it's people that just discard stuff right away, like, oh, you're fucking stupid and that's not, like, there's nothing to that.

Starting point is 00:52:13 Like, oh, really? Yeah. Because most things, like, the people have told me that were stupid and, like, totally irrelevant are, like, completely true now. I'd be interested if there's somewhere you can find, Doug, what the estimation is on how far we are behind, the general population on what we have the capabilities of, science-wise.

Starting point is 00:52:34 You know, I think they only release things when they feel like they have to, or when they have the next technology. Or there's a lot of money to be made. Yeah, like, you know, the stealth bomber that we used... Always a hustle. We used in Iraq the first time. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:47 I mean, we had that for a while. And I feel like they used Iraq, like, let's just show everybody, because we have already something else. That's way more advanced. So we'll use this now. But, but I mean,

Starting point is 00:52:56 to kind of tie back in some of the Iraq stuff, like, they actually like went through these Sumerian museums and there was an organized effort of theft. And they're like, this wasn't just random people stealing stuff. Like, it was organized,

Starting point is 00:53:11 meaning it was probably like some kind of military involvement. Do you know who was super into this weird stuff? Was the Nazis? Yeah. They invest a lot of time and money in the occult. Perfect. example. Yes, dude.

Starting point is 00:53:24 Yeah, that's why it's funny because you think Indiana Jones and all that is a great story. Like, there's a lot of truth. Like, they were going after the occult, like all these different ways to get the spirit destiny. They were trying to find, like, you know, all that stuff. Speaking of Juve, just for people. So red light therapy definitely works. You probably already know what it is.

Starting point is 00:53:45 Juv is the red lights that they use in studies. There's a lot of crappy ones out there. But they're more expensive because they're legit. Their Black Friday is going on right now. What are they doing? Huge discounts. Really? Huge discounts.

Starting point is 00:53:56 They never do so. Yes. In fact, Doug, I think told me, like, one of their big units was, what did it say there? So you get up to $1,000 off. Oh, wow. And they also have payment plans. Zero percent financing. Oh, wow.

Starting point is 00:54:09 Available. Yeah. So for as little as $38 a month, you can have one. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. This is like, listen, if you've read the studies on red light therapy and there's tons, helps with your skin, helps with recovery, raises testosterone, regrows hair. This is all legitimate.

Starting point is 00:54:24 Just look it up yourself. But juve is expensive because, again, it's the real deal. This is the time to get it. They only do this once a year. And the discounts are massive. By the way, I want to bring up that we have some giveaways going on for Black Friday. I just want to mention in particular about the mind pump Park City House. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:54:45 It has Jouves there, by the way. Okay. But we're also giving away two one-week stays at the Park City House. for the Black Friday. That's right. That's right. So 60% off every Maps program, every program bundle, and every purchase gets you entries.

Starting point is 00:55:01 Also, yes. Also, this is the time of year when that house gets filled up fast. So besides the chance to win, if you're somebody who's looking to go out there, go skiing in Park City or spend the winter out there, winter is the time when everybody wants to get out there and you go to, is it, mindpumprentals.com? Yes, correct.

Starting point is 00:55:18 Yep, yeah. Paleo Valley meatsticks are delicious. protein on the go snacks they're clean they're amazing they're not dry uh they're the best go check them out and right now they're having to buy one get one free on some of their bestsellers including the beef sticks bone broth the organ complex and their super food bars go to paleo valley dot com forward slash mind pump that link will get you a discount back to the show our first caller is don from washington hi don how you doing don good it's so good now How can we help you?

Starting point is 00:55:55 So I wrote the email a couple of months ago. A little few things have changed and it's a novel. So I know you guys have access to my novel, so I cut it down for you. And I got to put on my reader. Sorry, that's part of being 54. Hi, Sal, Adam, Justin, and Doug. I originally wrote you a novel about two months ago and I know you have access to it. So I will cut it down today.

Starting point is 00:56:17 I found you guys about three months ago now. And I think it was meant to be because you are exactly what I'm. I have been looking for, and I have binged all the episodes all the way back to May. I am almost 54 years old, wife of 29 years, and proud mother of a 19-year-old son. A little history on my physical journey. I was not allowed to play sports as a youth, but desperately wanted to because I was naturally athletically gifted. So once I left home, I got heavy into fitness all through my 20s, receiving double

Starting point is 00:56:48 certifications and personal training and aerobics instruction. Keep in mind, this is in the next. 90s, when aerobics was a thing, working at Gold's Gym, the Alaska Club, Elmendorf Air Force Base in Anchorage, Alaska, and basically became a gym wrap. I competed in fitness competitions, was a bikini model. During this time, I met the man of my dreams, and over the next 20 years, we became fat and happy together. I didn't care if I ever stepped foot in a gym because I had burnt myself out. In 2006, we had our amazing son, and as we all know, that becomes priority number one, and my health got shoved on the back burner. I tried every fad diet known to man to try to get the

Starting point is 00:57:30 extra weight off without doing what I knew in my head I needed to do. When my son went to middle school, I found myself with a bit more time on my hands for various reasons, and this is when I found my CrossFit family. I know what you're going to say, and for the most part, I agree, because over the course of the six years I have been doing it, I have torn a bicep, wrecked my knee, and partially torn my super spenatus. I've become the queen of scaling at the box, and now I've cut my workouts from five to six days a week to three to four times a week and recently added in two days of Pilates a week. Unfortunately, three weeks ago, I fell down the stairs and re-injured my shoulder and bicep, but I'm getting shockwave therapy and working my way back.

Starting point is 00:58:18 When our son went to college, my husband and I decided to invest in our health and both got on Terseppatide, which has been a godsent for both of us. I'm down 27 pounds, and after my latest Dexas scan, just about two weeks ago, I'm down almost 4% body fat as well. But still have a ways to go since I'm sitting at 27%. I'm 5 to 135 pounds. And with all that, can I gain muscle with one of your programs and still continue to do CrossFit because honestly, I cannot give that up entirely. They are my family and I just love

Starting point is 00:58:52 them too much. Okay. All right, Dawn. So a lot here. Yeah. There's a lot. So, okay, what's, Are we still, wait, can I, are you still on the GLP one? Yes. I came off it for a month in hopes that I could kind of do it, but the cravings just came right back and I'm not at the end of my journey. So I got back on it after a month off. So we want to do GLP one. We want to do CrossFit and we want to do one of the mass programs. I mean, the short answer is no, but. Not what you want to hear. Let's look at priorities, like most important things for you.

Starting point is 00:59:30 Okay. So what do you want out of this most importantly? Well, to be honest with you, because of all that I went through in like that 20 year time span, when I found CrossFit, it was the only thing since when I was personal training people, It was the only thing that, like, I craved and I wanted to go to the gym and I couldn't stay away from the gym. So that's what I want. I want to maintain my consistency. But I really, really truly believe in the power of muscle and longevity.

Starting point is 01:00:01 And I want to be a strong grandma someday. So I would really like to put on muscle. Okay. So I'm going to create a little – let's – I'm going to backtrack a little bit and just kind of paint a picture. And then I'll ask you that question again. Okay. So I crave it. I can't stop it.

Starting point is 01:00:17 I've had three injuries since I started doing it. And I've had issues with exercise in the past that have burnt me out to the point where I stopped completely. Let myself gain a bunch of weight. Let me ask you that question again. What is the top priority for you, Don? Longevity. You can't. You got to stop.

Starting point is 01:00:37 Yep. It's not the path. You got to stop. If that's true, because your actions right now are not saying that. What your actions are saying is that you value the addiction, and it is an addiction. In fact, what you described is, what you described was... You've connected CrossFit the same way to your old patterns.

Starting point is 01:00:57 What do you mean by that? Well, you were, there was a time in your life when you were a bikini model. You were training. You were a savage in the gym. And you probably, and there's a part of you that missed that, but you burnt, and you knew that burnt you out. And you have found there's something in CrossFit that gives you a taste of that same feeling. Yeah. And that feeling is what led you to burning out. And that, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and we're at that path again.

Starting point is 01:01:19 And this is difficult when people attach that to like, man, this is, this feels so good when you do it. It's like, there's such a better path for you that is way less resistance, way less difficult, and it's sustainable for the rest of your life. But it's not through reducing your calories as low as they probably are right now, training in a CrossFit mentality and then slapping maps on top of that. that will just get you quicker to that burnout or injury going that pathway. So think of it this way, okay? There's a relationship with this that is very similar to what someone may have with an addictive substance. Okay.

Starting point is 01:02:02 You know, and I'm going, this is obviously a little extreme, but, you know, I love alcohol. I love the way it makes me feel. I enjoy it. I had a DUI. My wife kicked me out of the house and my liver enzymes are through the roof. that happened over the last six years. But I don't want to stop it. I love it.

Starting point is 01:02:16 My best friends drink. We hang out together. We have so much fun. So you can kind of hear what that sounds like. When you come off of a substance or when you break free or you try to break free from that relationship, what do people always experience? Withdraw. So this is going to suck. If you really want longevity, Don, there's going to be a period of it's you're not going to like it.

Starting point is 01:02:40 You're not going to like it. There's going to be a withdrawal. There's something there that you crave that you're going to get withdrawal from when you stop. But if you want longevity, you have to do it. Because I'm going to tell you right now, if you don't stop, the injuries and the challenges are going to get worse. Oh, your body will, your body will stop you. Whether it stops you now, a year from now, two years from now. And just so you know, like, you know, this kind of training, and I'll just generally say over-training, okay,

Starting point is 01:03:10 over-training, beating yourself up, has a very high mortality rate. It's not great. Like when they analyze the hearts of extreme athletes, they look like somebody who doesn't work out and doesn't eat right. And it's because the stress is involved that constantly, you know, the constant stress that they're doing to themselves. So there's going to be a withdrawal here that's going to happen from breaking up with this addiction.

Starting point is 01:03:35 I don't even know, honestly, if it's the addiction to the exercise, because the amount that I scale now is like it's it's pathetic it puts me in like the novice beginner category I think I'm more addicted to the people than I am the actual exercise I just want to see the people so I'm wondering if like could I ask the owner if I can just go to the gym while they're doing their workout and do my lifting instead of doing the wad well here here's why I don't here's why I don't believe you well I believe that you I believe you I'm gonna go to the bar and go hang out with the friends, but I'm not going to have the beer. I mean, if we're going to continue with Sal's analogy, I mean,

Starting point is 01:04:16 the scaling back, the scaling back, are they going to want to pull you in while you're there? And it wouldn't have resulted in three injuries the last six years. Yeah. So however much you think you're scaling back, it's inappropriate. What you're doing is inappropriate. You wouldn't have had three injuries. Do you know how many injuries you should have over the last six years with appropriate exercise?

Starting point is 01:04:36 None. Zero. Yeah, zero. Yeah, zero. One is a lot. One, and one would be like a freak accident. Yeah. So, and I know what's happening right now because I do this to myself.

Starting point is 01:04:46 I'm like, oh, well, actually, this is the thing that I want. This is what I like. And so you're going to have to break up with it and go in a completely different direction. It's going to be really hard on your own. I would say this. I think your fail rate would be high with trying to break up with it unless you work with a coach. I think working with a coach who can kind of walk you through because it's going to suck. It's going to suck for a few months.

Starting point is 01:05:11 I mean, I should be straight out. For a few months, you're going to be like, this sucks. Like, I feel like I'm barely doing anything. But then once your body starts to feel better, once you start to see, oh, my God, it looks like things are working. The other side of this is amazing. Yeah. Then you'll get peace.

Starting point is 01:05:25 You'll have joyful peace with exercise. The other side of this is double, maybe triple, depending on where your calories are at, less volume and training and intensity, more muscle on your body. More energy. More metabolic flexibility. Better libido. I mean, there's so much. much on the other side once you get there, but it is going to be rough for a couple of months.

Starting point is 01:05:44 Would you be open to working with a coach? Oh yeah, 100%. I will need something because I can't do it on my own. I think, like I said, that was my encouragement with the box was the people and the community and the atmosphere and the encouragement. Don, I have high hopes now. I heard you say something that is very powerful. Whenever I've worked with someone or trained somebody and trainers know this. When they say I can't do this on my own, someone in your position, that's like the big, that's the big first step. The rest now is like you put it on your coach. I think we're going to be okay. I'll have somebody call you. We'll take care of you. I'm going to have someone call you, Don. Thank you. Thank you. You're going to love it. Listen, I want you back on in three months.

Starting point is 01:06:30 Okay. So we'll get it. We'll check back in with you. And I think this will be a very different conversation. I'm very hopeful, but I'm very nervous and very scared. Of course you are. That's why we got you. Completely new protocol for you. The fact that you're open to that and you're willing that, you're going to be fine. You're going to be okay. That's our job now.

Starting point is 01:06:48 Yeah, you're lovely. This will be, put it on us. We got you. Yeah. We'll do. Thank you guys so, so much. I can't even tell you this is, this has been a real difficult place to come to. But it's when you wake up every morning, so sore you can barely get yourself down the stairs.

Starting point is 01:07:04 It's like, okay, something has got to give here. Yep, yep, yep. Well, Don, I'm excited for you. I'm excited to talk on here. again in three months because it's going to be a different tune. That's right. Awesome. Thank you guys.

Starting point is 01:07:14 Appreciate it. All right. So this is just for the trainers that might be watching right now. And even people who might identify with Dawn. So what you just saw, there were a couple things there that you saw that, you know, just we've trained a lot of people so we could kind of see this oftentimes. But you might do this yourself or if you're a trainer, you'll see this in a client. Now, it's not bad.

Starting point is 01:07:38 It's actually great to validate how. someone feels, but sometimes you got to call them out. And so she literally sandwiched a statement with two contradictory statements. I've had three injuries. And then, well, it's really, I've scaled the intensity down so much. I'm barely doing anything. It feels great. And then I called her out and said, I don't believe you.

Starting point is 01:07:55 And then how did she end, how did she close that conversation? Yeah, something's got to change. I can't be this sore walking out. It's like, obviously. Yeah. That second time when she said, I scaled it back. She was, she was lying. But more importantly, she was lying to herself.

Starting point is 01:08:10 And this is where it gets very difficult. We didn't even get into... Totally different narrative in her head. You know, we didn't even get into how obvious this is versus two because the fact that she's on a GLP1 also tells me she's probably really low calorie. And somebody... And doing four days a week in close with it. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:08:25 That's already way too much. Over-training, yeah, on top of being under calories. That's right. Oh, I mean, if anybody who's ever looked at... We wrote a program for people on GLP-1s. And if you saw the recommendation for exercise and movement, it is minimal. Very minimal. and somebody who is eating that low a calorie,

Starting point is 01:08:43 your goal is to just try and save as much muscle. You are not in build muscle mode. You cannot build muscle on 1,000 or 1,200 calories a day, especially with that much activity like CrossFit. So it was only a matter of time that she was going, her body was going to give. So I'm glad we caught her and I'm glad she's open. Because that's, to me, that was everything.

Starting point is 01:09:05 It's like, when I ask that question and they go like, oh, I don't know, maybe, or this or that, then you're like, this isn't going to happen. But she was very open to it. So our next caller is Joe from Illinois. Joe, what's up, Joe? How you doing, Joe? Hey, guys.

Starting point is 01:09:16 How's it going? Good. How can we help you? Good. So I'm 20 years old. I'll just read straight from my email here. I'm about 6 foot 4, 185 pounds. I'm sitting around 7 to 8% body fat.

Starting point is 01:09:32 Currently, I'm working at a factory from 3.30 p.m. to 2 a.m. Monday through Thursday. and I'm also a new personal training. I'm a brand new trainer and I've been with clients for about three months now. That's usually from 9.30 a.m. to 2 p.m. So during the week, I'm only getting about 5 to 6 hours of sleep. I still make time to train myself from 2 to 3 p.m. Monday through Thursday. I'm currently running a split of chest and back, shoulders and arms, legs,

Starting point is 01:10:06 and then a core recovery day. My main focus right now is building muscle, getting up over 200 pounds, and breaking through some plateaus like bench. So my main question is, with this kind of schedule and workload, what can I do to keep making progress, gain size and strength,

Starting point is 01:10:28 but also stay mentally balanced and avoid burnout for myself relationships and my clients? Drop the two days a week, full body routine instead. You don't need to do that much with everything you got going on. Joe, let's back up for a second. You're your 20, yeah? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:45 Why are you working so much? What's the goal here? What are you doing? So I literally just moved out with my girlfriend this past weekend. And then I also have a car payment. I just got bills to pay. So you need to work that much to cover all your bills? Yeah, right now, yeah

Starting point is 01:11:06 Okay, all right So, so, because typically it tells somebody Back off, but you're 20 So you can kind of get away with going a little nuts Yeah, I hope you're trying to save your money Because you can't live like this forever Yeah, okay, all right, good, good You plan on marrying this girl?

Starting point is 01:11:23 Yeah, definitely. We've been together for about four years now. Good for you. All right, so here's a deal, bro. You've got to work out way less Because you're getting such, so little sleep. Yeah. It's just not going to work, dude.

Starting point is 01:11:33 I mean, I like Adam's suggestion. The other way would be Maps 15 and eat more food. Do you ever have a time to sleep in or take naps? Well, weekends, yeah. Sometimes I have like my two hour breaks in between clients and work and I'll take naps. Take naps when you can and sleep in on the weekend when you can. Maps 15 is your program. And you'll get stronger.

Starting point is 01:11:56 You'll get stronger following that and bump your calories. Are you hitting your protein? Yeah, I'm around like 180 right now. Good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Mass 15 is going to be a workout. You go any harder than that, any more than that, and you're just going to stay where you're at. You're not going to get in. Okay. It really would depend for me on what's easier for you is, is it easier for you to get in the gym six days a week for just 15, 20 minutes? Or is it easier just to do one or two days. Full body. Full body. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, I could do like 15, 20 minutes here and there like before and after clients. Oh, because. Yeah. Yeah, so why don't we send you a mass 15 and just do it like that?

Starting point is 01:12:37 Just so you know that what's cool about the way we designed that, though, is you could pair days together. So if there's certain days when you got longer periods of time, you could take, you know, but that amount of volume is what's more appropriate for where you're at right now. More lifting a harder program, more days or body part splits is not going to build you more muscle right now. Reducing the volume with everything else you're going and eating more calories is what we'll do. So are you trying to switch over to full-time personal training?

Starting point is 01:13:05 Is that the direction you want to go? Yeah, that's good. Oh, I see. Good for you, dude. Good for you. Are you at a big box gym? Yeah, I'm at any time fitness. Okay, okay.

Starting point is 01:13:15 All right. How long you've been there? It's about three months now. Oh, good man. All right. So if you got, save up enough money to give yourself some runway. So you might if I give you some business advice, life advice? Yeah, for sure.

Starting point is 01:13:28 Yeah, go ahead. Save up some money from the factory. work, because I'm assuming that's your main paycheck right now. So you give yourself some runway. You give yourself maybe three months of runway. When you're there, go all in with personal training. Go all in with personal training. And a company like any time, you should be able to build up a book pretty quickly,

Starting point is 01:13:49 especially if you apply yourself, you work on sales skills, you're working all that stuff. And then you can move up the ladder. I know the fitness managers, you can do well, general manager, you can do well, or you could do another big box. Anytime? Sometimes the small, the small check-in. Do they have, do you have a fitness manager? Do you have a, no. I have my manager there.

Starting point is 01:14:07 Yeah. Well, my point is there may be opportunities to move up or go in another big box. Yeah, where you live? Tell me where you live. Where you at? Rockford. Rockford, California? Illinois.

Starting point is 01:14:18 Illinois. Okay. So is that the biggest gym out there? No, there's like crunches and planets. Yeah, see, crunch fitness would be a faster path of like, I mean, that's what I would do. I would do what Sal said, save your money. And then because you've already got some experience at any time,

Starting point is 01:14:37 apply at a place like Crunch where you're going to get a bigger schedule and probably more consistent pay as a trainer. And then you could really scale up. Give yourself three months. We know people at Crunch. So, yeah, that's the place to go. Are you in our course? That's Master Off's place.

Starting point is 01:14:50 You know that right. No, I'm not. Yeah, dude. You got to check out our course, dude. Are you watching the YouTube video for trainers? Yeah, I'm in the, I, When I'm like not listening to your guys as main, I'm listening to Kyle's. Okay, good.

Starting point is 01:15:04 Good, good, good, bro. Okay, good. You're good, you're good, yeah. If you really apply yourself, I mean, you just build your career in fitness. But it'll be hard to do while working at the factory at the same time. So that's why I'm saying, give yourself some runway, cut it off and then go all in for three months. And that'll give me enough time to somebody with your work ethic, though, when you make that switch, you'll be fine. That's right.

Starting point is 01:15:24 Because you just apply that work ethic to inside the gym, even when you're not getting paid to, try and find clients and meet people. Yep. And you'll be, you'll be all right. And in the meantime, we'll send you Mass 15, so you got that kind of a workout plan. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, yes. And then stay in.

Starting point is 01:15:39 Also, I don't know if you're in the, we have a personal trainer forum on Facebook. So if you're not in there, get inside that too. Yeah. That way, I'll join that too. Okay, cool. All right, dude. All right, Joe. We'll be in touch, man.

Starting point is 01:15:48 Yeah. Thanks for you after it, man. Thanks. Yeah, young kid getting after it. Yeah, yeah. I had to ask him why he was working so much because I figured it was something like that, right? But, you know, this is the age when you stretch yourself. You grind at this age.

Starting point is 01:16:01 Yeah, you stretch yourself. You can handle it. Yeah. And he can get away with it more than I would be able to. If I did that now, I'd die. But in my 20s... I mean, his workouts are just for maintenance. Yeah, that's it.

Starting point is 01:16:11 Well, I mean, to me, that's the biggest point to be made right here is that, you know, and this is the mistake that I made at that age. I absolutely worked like that. But I still thought I needed to be lifting. Yeah. Exactly. You're still trying to get jacked. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:25 I'm still killing the gym. You know what I'm saying? Like, still... I'm wondering why you can't. Yeah, yeah, wondering why I'm a hard plateau forever. I wish someone's a big game at me and been like, hey, dude, scale all the way back to one day or two days and watch what happens. I'm like, what?

Starting point is 01:16:37 No way, that's going to work. I know. So that's what he needs to do. Our next caller is Kevin from Pennsylvania. What's up, Kevin? How are you doing, Kevin? How are you doing, Kevin? What's going on, guys?

Starting point is 01:16:46 How are we doing? Good, man. How can we help you? Thanks. Super cool to be here. I'm just going to go ahead and read my question off. So some background personal information from me. I was a personal trainer for,

Starting point is 01:16:57 for just shy of 10 years, starting around 18 and making a career pivot at 27 at the height of COVID. Over those 10 years, I lived in the gym, had no problem getting in four to five days of strength training and mobility work. I was able to maintain a healthy relationship with my now wife, while also taking care of myself and my personal responsibilities with relative ease. During this time period, I would typically stay around 210, 220 pounds, which was a weight I felt very good at. For reference, I'm 510. I would say I had a very good amount of muscle built from all the years I had spent lifting weights since starting around age 13. When COVID hit, my gym closed, and I lost my part-time job as a bartender and needed to make a pivot. After a few odd jobs,

Starting point is 01:17:43 I finally transitioned into medical sales, and I absolutely love it. It's been a huge boost in my financial and personal relationship health as I don't work 60 plus hours a week anymore, and I make a healthy salary. The downside is I no longer live in the gym and maintaining the level of fitness I once did in the way that I did it is really no longer possible. My wife and I have been blessed with twins who just turned one in August and that of course just adds to the challenge. Since their birth, I've gained about 20 pounds and sit around 240 pounds and I can't seem to shake it. I finally feel like I've started to gain some semblance of consistency back in the gym again. Now that the twins sleep until about 8 a.m. and I can get up before everyone else and get a workout in. However, I'm now 33,

Starting point is 01:18:31 and I just can't seem to get past the mentality of 23-year-old Kevin, who doesn't want to make an excuse for getting in the gym less than four times for a week and should be eating very clean most of the time. My new reality is that I simply don't have the time to track macros, get in the gym four times a week, get enough sleep, or just generally put myself before my family as I once did. all that being said my question is simple what should someone like me who used to do it all be prioritizing to be the healthiest version of myself while hopefully shedding some of the body weight i put on since becoming a father and some additional info to give you guys some more context like i said i'm in medical sales so i sit in the car for six to eight hours a day i don't get a lot

Starting point is 01:19:16 of you know non-exercise movement all my appointments revolve around breakfast lunch and coffee I generally make really smart decisions, but it's still eating out for two or more meals a day, and that makes tracking next to impossible. I've been running MAPS aesthetic for the last six weeks with great results, but the early wakeups and the long workouts are really getting to me later in the day. I'm usually toast by like 2 or 3 p.m. And this ultimately cuts into time with my wife at night as I'm generally exhausted by 9 or 9.30, and that needs to change.

Starting point is 01:19:49 So, you know, we plan on having more kids soon. And so I don't anticipate getting any of that time back. Just trying to optimize for the long term. Sincerely, thank you guys for all you do. Truly makes a difference in so many people's lives. Yeah, dude. Well, I mean, you're still doing it all. All right.

Starting point is 01:20:04 You're still doing it all, brother. You just have kids and a wife and you're supporting everybody. So you're still doing it all. I think the challenge is, you know, the lie that you believe, which is it has to be a particular way. And you actually get better results being consistent doing it, a more appropriate, applying things a more appropriate way. So we'll start with diet.

Starting point is 01:20:24 And I'm glad you added that last part. So a lot of your sales happen around a meal. Yes, pretty much all of them. Right. So it's not like you can meal prep and then you're going to bring out your Tupperware while the guy or girl eats across from you. Yeah, the doctors sometimes. They like to eat with you, right?

Starting point is 01:20:39 Of course. It's kind of like, it's like a family thing. They like to have that relationship. So I don't ever like to. I tried the meal prepping thing for a little bit. Like you said, it's just kind of not sustainable. It comes off as a little, you know, not so humble when you're, yeah.

Starting point is 01:20:51 No, no, I totally get it. I totally get it. So what I would do when you eat out, choose a protein and eat low carb. It's one of the easiest non-trackable ways to manage your calories. So whenever you're eating out. Big piece of meat. Yeah, meat and vegetables, no carbs. Or, oh, you know, burger with no bun and, you know, and some pickles or something or whatever.

Starting point is 01:21:13 So it's always protein and vegetables and eat low carb. It's just a very easy way. to track calories or does I say maintain calories appropriate and eat protein also since we're on the diet because I did have some thoughts around this it reminds me the transition I went through myself personally from being the bodybuilder guy to the guy who sits on a podcast and doesn't do any of that stuff anymore and it took me a couple years I shared I don't know how long you've been listening but I shared this on this podcast when I went through this transition of I'm no longer that guy and so the way every meal I looked at I had to look at differently. Because I, what I had to fuel to be this 235 pound jacked dude that was training clients

Starting point is 01:21:57 and lifting hour and a half every day, I had to eat double. Like, and so I really had to retrain myself, like there's these, and I don't know if you have consistent places you eat or consistent meals that I had trained my brain of like, that's what I order from there. That's what, even though it's kind of a healthy thing

Starting point is 01:22:13 or semi-healthy, the portion sizes were just what I used to eat. And I hadn't transitioned to like, well, what if I ate just half of that? And it's like, I was fine. I was satisfied with it. But I had literally trained myself to eat the same way. And so I don't know if you experienced that at all. But like I had to just like my Chipotle meal is different.

Starting point is 01:22:33 My five guys meal is different. Like all these meals that I ate 10 years ago, I could still eat them. I just had to portion control in a different way than what I used to. And it took me a minute to get used to that. But generally speaking, low carb is the way to go. when you eat out without tracking. You aim for the protein, eat low carbs or no carbs. You know, if they have a vegetable side or whatever, go with that.

Starting point is 01:22:57 And you're typically okay, typically. Okay. And then when it comes to the workout, a couple options. First off, you don't need four days a week, five days a week in the gym. You know, two full body workouts a day will give you a significant amount of results. Or you could try like a MAPS 15 protocol where you do two lifts a day. Yeah. So which one works better?

Starting point is 01:23:18 like because the two lifts a day tends to feel more consistent. It's short. It's like 20 minutes. I'm done. But that might be, I don't know if that's more or less convenient for somebody like you. Or would you prefer like two workouts a week? You know,

Starting point is 01:23:32 I think I would prefer the consistency of it because, you know, I'm pretty blessed that my gym is a mile from my house. So it takes me about 15 minutes to roll out of bed, get pre-workout, and I'm in the gym and under 15 minutes. So doing it every day is not necessarily a problem. I guess my skepticism and probably the mindset shift that I need to make is that I just done so much volume for so long. And I've got like I said, I've been running aesthetic for six weeks. And it's, I've gotten great results.

Starting point is 01:23:59 I know I've built muscle. I know I burnt a little body fat. But like it's just unsustainable in my lifestyle. So I guess I would kind of need to be sold on the idea of like, you know, like how does the volume go with that? Here's what will be so much better for you. Stick. Do the map 15. and then with that extra time that you would normally be lifting more weights,

Starting point is 01:24:19 get on the treadmill because you don't move a lot throughout the day. Just water. You're not, that use that time to get your steps in and your activity in. And that's how you cut the time. I don't have a lot of time, so I do less or none. Yeah. But it's two lifts a day.

Starting point is 01:24:32 By the way, I'm not going to sell it to you, Kevin. It'll sell itself. Yeah. Yeah. Do it for three weeks. Just try three weeks. You'll get stronger the whole time. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:24:40 It'll say you. Okay, got it. And when you have days, like, let's say, because it sounds like you get there in the morning, and you got, if you have a whole hour, then get on the treadmill, walk right afterwards. Throw it on an incline,

Starting point is 01:24:50 nice little power walk after your lift. Days that you don't have that time, just do your two lifts and get out. So that's what your gym routine should look like. And then follow Sal's advice with food. I give it three weeks, so it'll blow your mind. If you just stick to that and trust the process.

Starting point is 01:25:04 Okay. I understood. It does make sense too because, and like you said, the non-exercise stuff, the movement, I've really been thinking that's kind of where I've been lacking. I'm like,

Starting point is 01:25:13 you know, we take the dogs for a walk here and there, but it's not every day. And I just generally, like I sit so much now. And I think that was the thing that really, I think I need to kind of just work on that. And that makes a lot of sense where, okay, I'm still getting in my movements. I'm still getting in a workout every day.

Starting point is 01:25:28 But I can hop on the treadmill and get in a couple thousand steps to really kind of get that low effort. Have you ever wore an aura ring or a Fitbit or use any of those tools before? I have not, have been really looking into it just to really track my sleep. Get an aura ring. Get an aura ring. Simple. They're easy.

Starting point is 01:25:45 I use that and I love it for sleeping steps. Those are the two things I use it for. There's all kinds of other cool shit, but I don't care about all other stuff. All I care about is keeping an eye on my regular daily activity because guys like us, okay, you and us, who sit a lot throughout work, days sneak up on us and I'm like, holy shit,

Starting point is 01:26:04 I only did 3,000 steps day. Then I have other days where I'm active, I'm doing things and I'm moving around. I get 10,000. But that fluctuation is a huge difference and just being mindful and aware of those days. you're so low, like, oh, that's a day I got to definitely get some walks in. Really helps.

Starting point is 01:26:19 And then also being mindful of your sleep. I think those two things, I really use the ring for that. And if you don't have one, I think it's a worthwhile investment for where you're at in your journey right now. Okay. Understood. Yeah. The sleep has always been.

Starting point is 01:26:31 I've never been the greatest sleeper, which is probably the reason why the early morning workouts kind of get to me because if I'm running on five or six, I'm just useless throughout the rest of the day. Like, I really, I need an eight plus to really kind of be at my best. So that would probably be great to just track that and see where I'm really at and see if I can improve on that too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:26:52 Yeah, that's a great, great plan right here. But again, try it for three weeks. You're going to get stronger the whole time. And then you'll be sold. You'll see for yourself. Here's the realization you're going to have, Kevin, is you've done too much. And you're like, man, I don't need to do as much as I thought. I know.

Starting point is 01:27:05 I mean, you guys probably know this too. It's such a hard mindset to get out of when you were doing it, it's always what works. And you want to stay with what works. but I just know I'm at the point now where I'm like, you know, I got kids. I'm going to have more kids. Life's not slowing down anytime soon. I got to figure out how to do this better and more optimally. Different season of your life.

Starting point is 01:27:24 And here's the other thing, too, you did so much training in your past. There's so much muscle memory there that you don't need to do as much as you did to even get what you had in the past. You need to do less. You did all the work. It's like investment. Like you've got more money in the account now. And so you don't need so much to create as much. through the interest. So muscle memory is very powerful. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny. That kind of

Starting point is 01:27:49 that exact thing makes me think I need to be doing more. But in reality, I'm sure you're right that, you know, the investment is there. It did a lot of work in my early teens and 20s. Try it for three weeks. You'll see. Yep. Okay. I love that. I'm going to do that. All right, Kevin. We'll see you. You guys are the best. Appreciate it. Take it easy, man. Got it. That was good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was good. You know, that's another, that's a good one for people who worked out a lot in their youth. Like, you build up that muscle memory. you just don't need a lot later. I mean, you hear me screaming that on the podcast right now.

Starting point is 01:28:17 It's crazy. I think that's the coolest thing. I wish, I mean, you don't realize until you do it. It is such a selling point. It's like, get it in right now. When you're in your 20s, lift, lift, lift, lift, lift, lift, you build all that muscle. Get all the volume you want. Because life, your life will change.

Starting point is 01:28:30 Your priorities will switch, you know? You'll have a family. You'll have kids. You'll be a provider. You'll do all these things. And the guy who lifted an hour and a half in the gym six, seven days a week just probably. Well, suddenly two, three workouts a week or do it. Do it for you.

Starting point is 01:28:44 Yeah. Yeah. Our next caller is Jasmine from California. Hi, Jasmine. How are you doing, Jasmine? Hello. Good morning. How can we help you?

Starting point is 01:28:53 Thank you for having me, first of all. This is like a pinch me moment, so I really appreciate it. I have been listening to you guys since August, and it was off the episode with Autumn Smith, I think, that you guys had. My best friend sent it to me because she asked me about why I'm not eating red meat and stuff. So I just started listening since then. And you guys sound pretty legit. And I just follow everything that you guys say. I don't even listen to any of the podcasters or any other ones that I used to.

Starting point is 01:29:22 So whatever you guys say, I'm like, okay, cool. Got to listen to that. How can we help you? Thank you. Okay. I can start off just by reading my email. Okay. So I'm 31.

Starting point is 01:29:34 I was born with hypothyroid. I've been overweight my whole life. I just recently lost a lot of weight. and neared my goal of 180 pounds. Although it sounds like a lot, I've been up to 270 pounds and my heaviest, and it's been, I think 180 is a realistic goal for me.

Starting point is 01:29:55 I started taking a GLP one just recently in the beginning of 2024, and I feel that it's helped me a lot, and it started with the semaglutide and terseptide is what I'm on right now. So I went from 225 to 185 within a year, and I felt great. I've been going to the gym since I was in 11th grade,

Starting point is 01:30:15 so I know a little bit about lifting and cardio. And I did think that cardio was the answer, but now that you guys say that it's lifting, I'm like, cool. I like lifting. It's the best. Let me see. So I had gotten off of the GLP 1 for a month or two,

Starting point is 01:30:33 and my goal was to stay off of it and keep my weight off, and I feel that I gained a lot of my weight back because right now I'm at 205. and it's very disheartening because I'm doing a lot of the same things that I was doing while I was on it. So my question is, how can I get unstuck and keep the weight off because I'm still lifting a lot of weight? I feel like I'm lifting more weight now and I don't want to base my progress off of a scale, which I should know, but still is very, it's just there. I see myself feeling good one day and I'm like, okay, do I want to risk ruining my day or not? And then I've ruined my day.

Starting point is 01:31:17 But I also want to mention that I work 40 hours a week and two of those days are 16-hour days. So my sleep is terrible. And I know you guys have mentioned that sleep is a big aspect in this. So I don't know what to do. I want to be able to get the wheel rolling again. But if I can get it rolling with all of them rolling at once, instead of one and then mess up one thing and then I just, I don't know how to approach it at this point because I feel like if I'm doing the same thing,

Starting point is 01:31:45 then I don't know what I'm going to do wrong. Yeah. Thank you so much for calling in and sharing all this. You're lovely, by the way. Can I ask you a direct question? Yeah. How do you feel you've done or how do you feel about yourself through this process? Be honest.

Starting point is 01:32:02 Honestly, I feel like I've done a great job because this is where I started. Yeah. Yeah, all right. So I got down to, I'm not trying to get, I'm okay with being thick. My jeans are just, that's how it is. And I'm okay with that. And I feel good with being at a certain way that I'm, you know, having a goal to attain. But if I keep going up and down, then I just beat myself up every day.

Starting point is 01:32:30 I feel like every day I wake up and go to sleep thinking about how do I look? Yeah. How do I feel? Well, I agree with you. I think you're doing a great job. We've killed it so far. Yeah. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:32:41 So, but here's it. How did it feel during that two months you were off the GLP1 and you saw the scale go up? How are you feeling? Terrible. How are you feeling about yourself when that's happened? Not good. Yeah. Not good.

Starting point is 01:32:54 This is, it's hard. This is hard. So when you, when you're going off the GLP1, the signal that the GLP 1 is sending your body is not there anymore. And so it's, it's, it's very insidious. There's this insidious. change in behaviors that creep up on you and then we can beat ourselves up over it. But I want you to give yourself grace because this process is going to be full of stumbles.

Starting point is 01:33:21 Like this whole process, the journey of health and fitness is a journey of you're doing well and then you stumble and then you stumble and then you get back up. And if you don't give yourself grace, what will creep in is shame and the shame is going to move you in the wrong direction. And you'll start to view fitness as a. a way to punish yourself or diet is restrictive. And then at some point, you're going to be like, I hate, I don't like to feel this way about myself.

Starting point is 01:33:47 I don't want to do this anymore. I just want to enjoy my life. And then you go in the opposite direction. And then shame gets even worse. And you just, you just do this back. It's like a bumper plate. It's like the bumper's on the, you know, when you're bowling, you're, bang, bang, being, being, but you're never kind of staying in the middle.

Starting point is 01:34:01 So you've got to give yourself grace the whole time. And so what'll help through this process is when you're feeling bad about yourself, right down through. things that are true that are good. Like, man, I came from here. This time, I only gained this much weight, and now I'm catching myself. And I'm lifting weights consistent.

Starting point is 01:34:19 Those are all true things. I got stronger, too. Yeah, I got stronger. I want to shed some light on a little bit of this, this weight gain, too, because this also is part of the mind fuck. Is when you came out the GLP1, what ends up happening is we typically, calories will naturally come up a little bit, right, for sure. And you got stronger.

Starting point is 01:34:36 You probably, some of that weight is muscle. So it's not like you just put, you went from, you know, doing all this, had GLP1, then you get off GL1, and then all of a sudden you just put all body fat on. If you were still lifting and you feel stronger in the gym right now, you put some muscle on too, which is a good positive thing. Even if we did put on some extra body fat and you went a little further than you would have liked, there's some, there is a silver lining in that. I mean, that metabolically, that's good for you.

Starting point is 01:35:04 Building strength, that's good for you. Putting muscle on, that's good for you. And let's say when you come back. down to that weight that you were at before, you'll look better. You'll look better because you have built muscle on that frame now. So it's not all bad. So to Sal's point of this is not a perfect linear journey of just all results, all possible. I mean, all of us, even as all the knowledge and experience we have, our journey looks like that too. So it's important that you, you recognize that you, there's some good that happened in that weight gain too. Yeah. So are you able,

Starting point is 01:35:34 are you using the kind of terseptide that you're able to measure it yourself in the syringe or is it pre-loaded doses? They're loaded doses. Okay. My goal is to stay off of it because it's pretty expensive. So I'm like, okay, I feel like this is when I was losing weight. And I've also listened to recently your guys' metabolic podcast where it, where you guys said that if you eat 1,300 calories and your body's used to it, you're stuck with that your whole life. And I don't want to be like that.

Starting point is 01:36:04 Yeah, no, you're right. Because my caloric intake right now is 1890. Yeah, listen, you're on point. So here, so, okay, and you're paying out of pocket for it, right? This isn't partially covered by insurance. Okay. If you're paying already out of pocket, you could go through our providers at nphorones.com and go with the compounded terseptide because then what you could do is you can lower your dose.

Starting point is 01:36:27 Yeah, you can slowly lower the dose. Less expensive. Yeah, so rather than going like preloaded and I can't cut the dose, it's like either on or off, what you can do is go on a protocol where it's like I'm taking this month. Now I'm taking a little less. I'm taking a little less. So it's more of a scale down process versus just coming completely off. But of course, you want to work with the doctor.

Starting point is 01:36:47 They're going to determine all that. So you go there, you talk to them. I'm already on terseptitide. I'd like to switch to yours. And here's my dose. And I would like to slowly wean myself down. And then they'll work with you on that protocol. As far as your workouts, go ahead.

Starting point is 01:37:03 Is it possible that I would have seen better results off the semi-glutide than the terseptit? No, no, that's not what's going on here. What you would have had a better success with is had you not cut cold turkey and if you had the option to cut the dose in half. Because then the calories wouldn't have bumped up as fast. In a perfect world, Jasmine, what it looks like, a perfect world. And again, this has to be done with the doctor. I want to be clear.

Starting point is 01:37:28 In a perfect world, you work with a fitness coach and you slowly scale down the GLP1 and the coach helps you train and work through the behaviors that are going to help through that process. Because so here's what happens. You go on a GLP1, cuts your appetite. And when you come off, the appetite comes back up. But what you want to do is you want to create new behaviors around that discomfort

Starting point is 01:37:52 that comes from wanting to eat or being hungry. So, and that's kind of a process. It's not like just automatic. So it's like, wait, well, I used to reach for this. You need a lot of rules. When I was bored. All right, what am I going to do now when I'm bored? So you got to replace it with something else.

Starting point is 01:38:05 And I'm giving you like the real short version of it. So it's a bit of a process. That's in a perfect world. But nonetheless, I think it's, it's just from the experience that we've heard from people who've done this, it's typically easier and better to kind of slowly scale down. Follow your strength training. Are you following a MAPS program? I'm not.

Starting point is 01:38:23 Okay. How many days are you in the gym? So I'm in the gym. I try to go for four because I have four days off, so I make myself go. I go for sure three days. And I lift. And I listened to another one that said, that walking is the answer for fat loss, right?

Starting point is 01:38:41 So I'm like, okay, cool. Sometimes on my lazy days, I'll do like 30 minutes on the Stair Master. And that's fine. Yeah, that's fine. I'm going to send you a program. So you can follow maps anabolic. Okay. Do the three-day-a-week version on it, okay?

Starting point is 01:38:55 Okay. So that's your workout. So we got that under control. Diet-wise, hit your, hit a target protein. I'm going to give you, how tall are you? Five-three. Five-three. Five-three.

Starting point is 01:39:06 Okay. So I'll say 100, yeah, about 100. Let's go 130 to 150 grams of protein a day. So let's go 150. Eat that first. Yes. No matter what, I'm going to eat that first. Okay.

Starting point is 01:39:18 Every meal. Try to stay away from. Okay. So first protein, then potatoes or whatever. Yes. I don't care what else. Yep. But 150 grams of protein, like breakfast lunch in there, that's 50 grams in a meal.

Starting point is 01:39:28 It's a big serving. Yeah. So eat that, even if you're like, oh, man, I don't want to eat any more of this meat. I'd rather have some of this, whatever. No, I got to eat this first. That's the only rule. Eat that first. Is it fine if it's not like meat?

Starting point is 01:39:39 Like, because I'll try and do a protein smoothie in the morning, which consists of like the Greek yogurt that has 30 grams. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, that's fine. But if your issue, if you have a challenge with appetite, food is better at producing satiety than smoothies.

Starting point is 01:39:54 Okay. So if you're like, man, and then, sorry, one more thing. So there's often in days where I struggle to hit the goal for anything because I feel like I get really bloated. So that's,

Starting point is 01:40:06 I also just listen to. That's just what you're eating. That's what you're eating. Is it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because you mentioned SIBO and CFO. I'm like, what if I have that? I mean, you might.

Starting point is 01:40:18 So, GLP1 slow down gastric emptying. So it could probably make more of that happen. But if I think I would avoid, avoid things. Gluten, I would start there. Avoid gluten, breads, pastas, processed foods. And that oftentimes makes a difference. Step number two, add some well-cooked greens, like really, really well, cooked spinach, broccoli.

Starting point is 01:40:38 You know what I mean? Like make it mushy, because that's what makes it easy to digest. Berries for fiber, that typically handles it. Then the next thing I cut out is dairy. Then the next thing would be like eggs if you want to go down the list. White rice, sweet potato, quinoa, fruit. Those are your main sources of carbohydrates. Stick to those. That will more than likely be easy for you to digest and you won't feel bloated from that.

Starting point is 01:41:01 Eat the protein first like Sal is saying. So whatever the meat is, yes, a shake is fine. always shoot for whole foods, but you're always better off getting the protein intake. And if that means you got to do it through a shake, that's better than not doing it. Yep. Those are your rule. I just don't use protein in powder. That's fine.

Starting point is 01:41:16 That's fine. Yeah. So the protein would come off of the yogurt. That's better. It's just when something's blended and you drink it, it produces less satiety than when you chew and eat something. Okay. That's all. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:41:29 But otherwise it's fine. Yeah. Yep. So is 1890 like a good goal? That's fine. I honestly don't care about your calories right now. I'd rather you hit 150 grams of protein, come high water every day in and day out, eat it first.

Starting point is 01:41:44 Lift that program that we're going to send over to you. And the only other any bit of activity is walking. And do that and any time you want. And then see if you can switch to being able to scale down the terseptide if your goal is to come off. I think it's a much, and we don't have a lot of data yet around this, but just from the doctors that we know that work with patients, like, oh, yeah, and when people come off, this strategy works a lot better. And then what it looks like sometimes is they scale down and, oh, I got to bump up again a little bit.

Starting point is 01:42:11 And then it's a nice process rather than like, boom, I'm off. And then suddenly, you know, it's like, uh-oh, all the appetites back. Yeah, then you swing the other way. Okay. Do you guys believe that the inbody is not accurate, but like something to go off? It's a decent, it's a decent gauge. So let's say you decide that you have access to that on a regular basis. I might have you do that one Friday every month.

Starting point is 01:42:39 And at the same time of the day, so like first thing in the morning, before you eat, before you drink, before you do anything on Friday, and you do that once a month. And that just kind of, just something we can check in to see, are we building muscle,

Starting point is 01:42:51 are we losing body fat to kind of help with a gauge? But even that, I wouldn't overthink. I care more about all the rules that Sal gave you. If you consistently hit that protein intake, you eat the protein first, you then you follow it with the carbohydrates that we talked about. Don't even worry about calories.

Starting point is 01:43:08 Literally follow what we're saying there. Hit the program we're talking about. If you do any other activity, it's walking. We're going to be fine. We're really good. Lastly, Jasmine, I'm going to give you the secret to all of this. You ready? Okay.

Starting point is 01:43:20 I'm going to ask you a question first. Okay. How are you feeling right now physically energy now that you've lost that weight? You're exercising. You're trying to watch your... How do you feel? I feel good. I feel really good.

Starting point is 01:43:34 I hated that when I was at that way. I used to do loss prevention, and I would walk around the store one time and my back would hurt. So I hated that. Now I feel good. I can run if I wanted to. I'm glad that you guys said walking in the hands.

Starting point is 01:43:48 So I'm a bit of that. But I feel great. It's just I feel, I do feel a little bit of like, ah, the clothes is fitting a little bit tight. Jasmine, if you focus on how you feel, energy, the joy, the, the enjoyment of the workout strength the strength like oh man I had a great I feel good I got energy I got my libido's good I feel like like I don't have pain if you keep focusing on that direction then everything

Starting point is 01:44:14 else will start to weave itself and organize itself underneath that if the focus is my clothes and the scale then it's going to go haywire so if you just keep thinking of like okay oh man I'm not feeling so good all right what's going on like okay here's what's happening you just keep focusing on feeling that energy feeling good enjoying the workouts like that will direct you far better than anything else. Get strong. Lift heavy weights. Think about that.

Starting point is 01:44:38 That's why you're lifting. It's about, is this five more pounds than what I did the, you know, the previous month? Like that's, that's what you're thinking about. Okay.

Starting point is 01:44:46 All right. Sounds good. All right. We'll do. You got it. Thanks for calling in. Okay. Thank you so much for having me.

Starting point is 01:44:51 You got it. You guys have a sweetheart. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, the thing with the preloaded, and I think the farm industry is going to change this.

Starting point is 01:45:02 It's like, I hope so. Yeah, it's, I mean, maybe they won't, huh? I know it's not in their interest. Because if you, if we don't get a hold of her, she thinks she has to go back to that. So it's in their best interest. That's right. And they just stay on it. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:45:15 You know, forever. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, she's doing great, too. No, she's doing incredible. She's doing really great. Consider her history and all that stuff. I mean, she's doing really, really good.

Starting point is 01:45:24 And I wouldn't be surprised. You know, she said she got stronger when she came off the GLP. Of course. I would not be surprised. I bet she was eating way too little. Yeah. I bet she was low calories. She had some muscle.

Starting point is 01:45:34 Filled it with calories. So even the weight that she put back on, I bet a lot of it wasn't as bad as she was going to. She just needs somebody in her ear. And I just want to encourage people. This is impossible for everybody. But if you're going to go on a GLP 1, hire a coach at the same time.

Starting point is 01:45:50 The odds of long-term success skyrocket. At least. If you do both of those. And also hiring that coach, ask them, do you have you or do you work with people that have a GLP wants? Of course. Of course.

Starting point is 01:46:01 Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see what's at Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic,

Starting point is 01:46:21 maps performance, and Maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee,

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2736:DON'T listen to your body!

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