Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2738: The BEST Isolation Exercises For EVERY Body Part

Episode Date: November 28, 2025

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin answer four Pump Head questions drawn from last Sunday's Quah post on the @mindpumpmedia Instagram page. Mind Pump Fit Tip: The best isolation exercises for every body part. (2:21) Getting your protein in with Butcher Box. (20:28) Reminiscing on old high school photos and yearbook sign off's. (26:23) An exercise in breaking generational trauma. (31:29) Letting your kids be free and have more independence. (36:45) The benefits of going through a treatment center to help with withdrawal. (41:48) Faith without works is dead. (47:03) Earn triple entries NOW for our Black Friday sale! (51:01) #Quah question #1 – What kind of healthy foods do your toddlers like to eat? I'm struggling with my son. (52:10) #Quah question #2 – Is it okay to change rep ranges and adjust weights for MAPS 15? (58:05) #Quah question #3 – Is it possible to build muscle in a deficit when you're obese? My thinking is that your body has enough energy to use so that you can still build muscle as long as you're hitting your protein target, even if you're in a deficit. (1:00:31) #Quah question #4 –  How do you deal with a mass number of clients? I have 17 clients right now (big box gym) and am finding it difficult to stay on top of their programming and progress at times. (1:04:01) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Butcher Box for this month's exclusive Mind Pump offer!  ** New users receive their choice of NY Strip, Ribeye, or Filet Mignon in every box for a year. ** Visit Rock Recovery Center for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** By filling out the form and scheduling your call, you'll also be entered for a chance to win a free 60-day scholarship at Rock Recovery Center, their premier treatment center in West Palm Beach, Florida. Don't wait—take the first step today. ** BLACK FRIDAY SALE: 60% off ALL Programs, Guides, and MODs **Code BLACKFRIDAY at checkout** Mind Pump Store Exercise Video Demos – Mind Pump TV Mind Pump #2684: Do ONLY These 8 Lifts to Achieve an Amazing Body The Dad Edge Podcast: Breaking Generational Trauma to Become a Present Father featuring Adam Schafer Sal Di Stefano's Journey in Faith & Fitness – Mind Pump TV Visit Seed for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code 20MINDPUMP for 20% off your first month of Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic. ** Mind Pump #1827: The 3 Best Rep Ranges to Build Muscle & Burn Fat Ask Mind Pump Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Ben Pakulski (@bpakfitness) Instagram Bret Contreras PhD (@bretcontreras1) Instagram Larry Hagner (@thedadedge) Instagram Adam | Relationship Psychology (@attachmentadam) Instagram Scott Donnell (@imscottdonnell) Instagram Mind Pump Fitness Coaching (@mindpumppersonaltraining) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump, Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we answered questions that people posted on our Instagram page, Mind Pump Media. It's a good time. By the way, this was after our intro.

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You guys, real quick, I just want to mention, we got a sale. It's up to 25% off equipment and select apparel on our store. Right now, there'll be $5 items as well. Sale will be from November 20th through November 30th. Go check it out at Mind Pumpstore.com. Yes, compound lifts are the best, but there's isolation exercises you should do as well.

We're going to talk about the best ice. Isolation exercises for every body part, what they are and why you should include them. There might be some debate. I don't even list what the exercise are. Let's see if we all agree. Keep it isolated. Well, there's even some debate. I mean, there's still people in the bodybuilding world that actually will make the argument for this.

What do you mean? That these are the isolation is the way to go. Better. Really? You don't remember that? Even our good friend, Pekolsky, makes that argument. That they're better? Yes.

You don't remember there? Yeah. He's big, you know, cable fly for peck development over the bench press. Oh, I don't know about that. Yeah. No, no, I don't. So, so there's, there's still room. There's room for debate here, too, if you like.

I know. There's, I think that there's definite value in isolation exercise, but there's. I think he's built so much muscle he forgot. Yeah. That's right. He's so jacked and forgot. That guy can bend over and touch his shoes. You know, I think.

Builds muscle over. Part of it is, part of it, CNS activation plays a role here, right? The more muscles are involved, the more force that you're having to produce, the more each muscle tends to get activated. Now, this is kind of not really the way to explain it, because if you look at like muscle activation, you can't really see this. But, I mean, season lifters and coaches know this.

Part of it's the carryover for functional strength. The other part of it is just, I mean, is anyone going to argue that squats aren't going to build more quad-sized than leg extensions? No, they will make that with hack squats. But the hack squats still compound lift, right? It's not isolation. But that being said, isolation exercises have value. They don't cause as much damage.

They allow you to connect to muscles that you might otherwise have trouble connecting to. This is where I think there's a lot of value. So I used isolation exercises with everyday clients primarily to help them feel and connect to muscles that they couldn't otherwise really connect to on a compound lift. So, like, they might have trouble feeling their chest in a bench press, but I could get them to feel their chest with an isolation exercise. Now, isolation exercises when it comes to, like, people who are more advanced, it's great ways to add volume without tons of demand and stress.

I mean, you can only do so many sets of squats before you fry yourself, but you can throw in isolation exercise to add a little volume that doesn't cause nearly as much damage. Yeah, you can really build up lagging, muscles and body parts. Right. Yeah. So there's definite value to that even just from an overall strength perspective, but like I think the most valuable thing from, you know, the performance side of it is connecting to that process and adding that into the overall compound level. Yeah, I agree. In fact,

many of my clients, I started with isolation exercises first because of the level they mostly are at. It was rare that I had somebody hire me who had, you know, decades of experience in training and had great mechanics and squatted and dead. It's never the case. Yeah. Right. So almost always, you know, the first time. And I remember learning this early. Early on, my principles are compound.

Lives are better. Start off with the bench press. Start off of the squats. Start off with these movements. And then you realize these people, they don't feel it. They don't do it. They don't do it. You're like, what am I doing?

And you spend a whole hour trying to communicate that. So later on in my career realized, like, like, oh, you know, I almost always taught an isolation exercise first, specifically for the reason of getting them to feel the muscle before I switched them over to, which is very counterintuitive if you've listened to the show for a long enough because all of our programming is not that way, right? If I'm programming for somebody for the best results, then, yes, the big compound lifts first. But if I also am in the same, you know, breath,

if I'm training somebody who's got little to no experience and the first time they get under a barbell to squat or deadlift and you ask them. Glute activation. Yeah, they're like glutes. I didn't feel anything in my glutes or chest. I just fill in my arms and my shoulders. And so that client does really well with teaching them isolation

exercises first so they can feel that muscle work properly and then getting that understanding and that connection working then going over to the compound list. Yeah. So for people who aren't familiar, isolation exercises are exercise that primarily move just one joint. Compound lifts use two

joints. So a press, elbows and shoulders, a lateral raise would just be shoulders or a trisip extension would just be the elbow. That being said, you don't really ever purely isolate a body part. Other body parts are always involved in stabilization and holding things. And so it's, kind of a myth that it's called isolation. But for the sake of this episode, isolation exercises are typically single joint exercises. I'm so glad you brought that up because this used to be like one of my biggest pet peeve, the arguments with people that try and make claims of isolating a part of a muscle. It's like, you can't even isolate a muscle. Yeah. So to try, the peak of the yeah, exactly, let alone the, this part of a muscle. Those 15% of fibers right now is a ridiculous

thought process in itself. So I'm glad you brought up that even isolation exercises are not true. I try to say emphasis. We're putting emphasis as much emphasis as we can on this muscle because this is impossible to isolate a the best bodybuilder in the world at mind muscle connection cannot isolate a muscle. He still will have an antagonist muscle and surrounding muscles that are supporting it firing somewhat, even if most the load is being taken by that. Anchoring your feet into the ground. So, so that being said, anybody who tries to tell you they're isolating a part of a muscle is even crazier. Yeah, that's right. All right. So let's start with chess. Let's talk about our favorites. I'm going to go.

with an inclined dumbbell fly for me. Now, I like inclined dumbbell flies because I noticed with my clients, it helped with shoulder stability. It helped them get a good, deep range of motion and stretch. A lot of people are tight across the chest. And then from an aesthetic perspective, just because it looks better

to develop your upper chest. Now, why not a cable fly for me or a peck deck, which are great, by the way. I think those are great. I would argue with you right there as those are the top two. Yeah, I would, so I could go either way, but the reason why I like a fly is it loads the stretch.

And you see a lot of hypertrophy benefits and correctional exercise benefits in that. But you could talk me out of it. So that's not why I like it. So, I mean, I'll just double down for why I like it. I always like the inclined chest fly because what it does is the shoulder girl naturally. Yeah.

Because gravity, it's one of the hardest hearts about teaching a client to, like, say, do a bench press, right, a compound movement for the chest, is their ability to retract, depress the shoulder girdle and keep it in that position as they press forward. And there's something about being in an inclined position with heavy dumbbells playing. It just kind of...

It throws you there. Gravity puts you there. Gravity kind of pulls the scapula back and down, which is that natural place you want to teach a client to get into. And so for that reason is why I really like this exercise over chest flies, cable flies. Although cable flies would be a close second in mind. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I would agree with that. I like the cable flies for just that consistent resistance. Yes. However, yeah. So I understand, you know, the argument with the stretch, you know, the load in the stretch. But, two, like, there's value to that consistent, like, muscle tension. Tension.

So they can, they're constantly thinking about the chest all the way through. That's why I, I, you can. A lot of connecting to that, which I prefer. If you have trouble connecting to your chest, you want tension at the squeeze. Right. And a cable fly will do that because you'll hear, bring him together. Someone with poor connection, you have them focus on that squeeze, and the.

middle, they tend to, you know, be able to feel their chest. It's funny, that's one of the few cable exercises I see you doing consistently. I know, I know. I love it. And it really is. It's just a connection thing. Like, and I want to make sure that I'm, uh, it's a feel, I feel my way through that. But I do when I'm not like incorporating that and then I go to do bench, like I, I know it's a

difference. For back, it's for me, crossbench dumbbell pull over. Oh, interesting. That's your. I think it is, well, it is a, this, okay, a dumbbell. pullover crossbench. I mean, it's the only real, I guess, now that you say that, it's the only one that really isolates anything.

Yeah. So anything else you can make a case that before. But it's not just that because you could do a straight arm pull down or a rope pull down and it's a similar movement. Yeah, the pullovers are better than that. But, well, I mean, crossbench dumbbell pull over, just the range of motion in the shoulders, the stability, the mobility. And then the carryover.

This is one of the few, quote unquote, isolation exercises that I would bet has a lot to carryover to the real world. I know it did for me in grappling and judo and jit-to. I just like, too, that it's closely related to the tricep as opposed to the bicep. Yeah. Right? So it's like a totally different feel because normally everything that I'm doing for pulling and gripping, I'm feeling a lot of bicep.

Well, I think it's important the audience knows this too. There's like, name it. I mean, name all the isolation back exercises. There's only a couple. There's not many. Yeah. I don't know. Is there anymore?

Pullovers and pull downs. Name me another one. You do a scapular, you know, shrug or something weird that nobody ever does. Yes. For wrong. So, I mean, at first I got a knee-jerk reaction for me, but then I thought about that for a second. I thought, well, wait a second. There's not many true isolation exercise.

The back is such a big muscle with different muscles that you incorporate different parts of the back and almost every other traditional lift. So just so the audience knows that that's not Sal making the case that, oh, it's better than a row. It's better than a pull-up. Those are all compound. We're saying isolation. Yeah, those are all considered compound lifts that obviously would make the top of the list, but there's not a lot of isolation exercise. If I had to pick one isolation exercise for the back, like the pullovers aren't even a close second.

It's the king of that for sure. All right. Now we're getting to Delts, rearflies for me. And it's because everybody likes side. I love that you pick that. Everybody likes side laterals. And I get it. But from a, this is one of those few times when I can go both aesthetic and functional and corrective, it's the best.

people need to strengthen that. Separating out movement. They need to strengthen the rear delts. It's good for shoulder stability. Then aesthetically speaking, if you want round delts, we've said this so many times in the podcast, build your rear delts,

not your side delts. You build nice rear delts. You got round-looking shoulders. So it's like both for aesthetics and function. I mean, I don't think anything, I don't know what episode we did recently were brought up the bent over, reverse cable fly,

pull through that I do. I don't think anything. beats that for an isolation exercise for the rear delts. I mean, it puts you in the fully stretched position. You got constant tension all the way through it. Yeah, no arguments for me. That would be number one for sure. Now we'll go biceps and triceps. Now technically, almost every exercise is isolation. For there's a few compound lifts. But I guess we'll just pick our favorites for biceps, preacher curl for triceps overhead tricep extension. But we don't need to spend a ton time here unless you guys have a favorite. My debate would be.

be concentration curls over that. Seated concentration curls would be... I like those. I haven't done those in a while. Spider curls is another good one. Yeah. Haven't done a while. Justin doesn't do anything...

I don't even know what they're called. He's like, what's that? I'm seeing an incline bench and I'm letting him hang. Oh, yeah. Incline curls. Yeah, incline curls. Yeah, dude. What about triceps?

You like overhead rope. I like overhead rope. Overhead rope. Yeah. That's a really good. The only reason why I even bach at preacher curls, because I think Preacher curls are amazing. is, because I remember how I used to do them as a teenager when I was young, is, one, I would not take it through four.

No, you got to go all the way down. Yeah, yeah, right. I would, I would not go all the way down and load it all the way and use a body rock and momentum to get it up just so I could put on an extra... No, lock and go full extension. Yeah, it's really like the, where I feel like it's a little more traditional to do like your basic concentration. Do you do the Arnold bent over concentration curl or the arm inside the thigh concentration? the tie. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. The Arnold. Prison style.

I mean, I tell you, when I was, when I was jacked and feeling myself, I did the Arnold style. Yeah, yeah. You'll find me doing it inside my thigh, though,

if I'm doing it more. That's great. All right, glutes. You know, can you call a hip thrust and I can't. Yeah, I would. That's like the only way

to isolate. I mean, I mean, no, there's donkey kickbacks. No, hip thrust. I can't get on board with it. But a hip thrust is technically compound, right?

Because the knee joint with the hip thrust. with the hip joint. I mean, it's not a lot. And you can load the heck out of a hip thrust. Like, you could lift more weight. Extension, but yeah, there's not a lot going on at the knee. You know, we're going to piss off some people.

I'm sure Brett Contreras not going to like this. But I would kind of make it more isolation than compound. It's technically not, though. It's a compound lift. Well, listen, if you're doing all the other glute compound lifts, that's got to be in that. That's closer to isolation than the other ones. Oh, yeah. Yeah, if you compare that to a lot.

a step up, a squat, a deadlift. Yeah, deadlift. I mean, it's by far the hip thrust is... You're just going to get a weird exercise outside of that, I feel, like, to try and isolate your glue. Yeah, you're doing like the, like the kick, you know, the abduction version or, yeah, it's like... Which, by the way, dude, I can, I can hip thrust so much weight.

I don't even know. I did not know I was good. What a great... It's a weird flex. I'm so glad you're ragging about this. Listen to me right now, listen. Let me hear you brag about this. I was, I can...

You guys, I get hump a house. I can put 600 pounds in the bar and crush a hip thrust. Now I'm so... I believe you. I hope Dylan edits a clip of you doing it with like a two-two on or something. Dude, listen. So cool, bro. Listen, I made fun of them for so long I shouldn't have.

I didn't know they were as good at them. Now, I felt like I need to breath. Now, okay, complete transparency then, since you are the only person that cares enough to do them that much. The other carryovers from it, what do you... Deadlift. So it makes your deadlift better. My deadlift went up. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. And it, in my butts, you know. This is more on the extent. You notice the difference in your butt? Because your wife knows is she saying anything? She keeps talking about my butt. So I guess, yeah. She says it looks like it's made out of wood. Depends on the amount of slaps.

Yeah, like carved out of wood is what she said. I don't know. Like a statue. Interesting compliment. Yeah. Maybe it's like, because wood could be flat. No, no, like carved out of wood. Maybe so my skin's brown.

So it's partially racist. It's like, it's like, oak. What do you mean, babe? It's not going to about. She's like, no, it's solid. All right. All right. Okay. All right. I don't know. But anyway, hip thrust, I guess. Quads, cissy squats.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No argument here. Oh, that'll light those quadies up. Yeah. The leg and stishes is boring. Now, wait a second. I mean, is it, so because you got the hip, the knee and the ankle all kind of involved in that. It's still just knee. It's still just a knee. Yeah. Okay, listen, if you can call a cissy squad in isolation, then you can definitely call a hip thrust. I think you have to extend.

Because there's as much play in the knee and ankle in the his cissy squat as there is in a, But, you know, the thing with the, you know, you brought up leg extensions for injury, correctional exercise, for certain applications, leg extensions are great. Sure. They're really great. You can't sissy squat. No, I use those. If you're trying to fix injury problem. Because you're going to mess yourself up.

Yeah. With the sissy-s stuff. So those two have to have an asterisk because you're going to have the, you know, biomechanic police come in and be, well, no, technical. You know, he's thinking of bad. Yeah, there's definitely that. There's definitely, the internet's got those kids. You know what I'm saying. Whoo.

Can't wait to tell you you're wrong. Yeah. Touch one. That's not an isolation exercise. So technically there is, but I mean, it's close to an isolation exercise as you can those two. I know I would throw them in there,

so I'll take that. Let's go hamstrings. What do you guys think? Do you guys like seated or lying leg curls better? Which one do you guys like better? Is a, is a Romanian deadlift not considered isolation? It is.

Romanian deadlift wins. It is, right? Yes. And you're locked. It's just hip. You're in a locked position and you just slide the hips out. That's isolation, bro. That's as good as good as it gets.

Yeah, that's good. That's as good as it gets right there. Yeah, you win. That one's it. That's it. You can't beat Romanians. No. No, definitely no.

And you should be in a lot. It's also a good butt one. And you should be locked out. I would like a good morning. Good mornings are great, but you know what the problem is good mornings? I mean, I prefer Romanians, but I'm just saying. You know what the deal with, I love good mornings. The problem with good mornings, though, is if you don't have good control and stability, it's like people turn

into some weird. Well, I know. You got to, yeah, I mean, it's definitely you have to prerequisites before you do that. For sure. And most, most people that do heavy, heavy good mornings are, it's almost like a between a squat and a good morning. Yeah, yeah. That's right. That's right.

You got a lot of knee flexion. Do these right. These will light up your abs like nothing else. But that's my pick. Yeah. I like those. That's it. Yeah.

I like those. All right. Okay. How many is that? How many is that? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. It's nine, huh? Yeah.

Clean? Yeah. was just thinking about how, like, I would blend this with my, our grade eight, you know? You're turning into grade nine or two? No, no, no. It's just like, so like, like, let, like, let, um, no, imagine that this is the evolution to the grade eight is that you, you start to add these later. So it's like, you follow grade two.

Exactly. More longer. Maybe you follow grade eight for a solid couple months. And then as you, because you remember, grade eight's all good, all the good compounds, right? So you got a while to get really good at those. And then as you. as you can handle more volume, you, these are all the isolation. Single joint movements?

Huh? Trickle them in? Yeah. Wouldn't that be a good idea? Yeah. I like that. I like that. I love to.

You're giving away our secrets. Yeah. I know. It's good, dude. I had friends over the other night because, um... You have friends? Yeah, I do. Besides us?

Yeah. We were there. I know. Congratulations. Yeah. I'm the Devoid. My other friends. Yeah.

No, I had people come over because I told you guys I went to that concert. And so they had dinner with us. And we were all hanging out. And so a few of the couple of the, of the couples. This was the first time we hung out with them. And my wife made, my wife's like really,

she makes these lamb chops that are just famous, right? She makes them so good. So she made these lamb chops. She does this dish where she goes, pasta with pesto, lamb chops and asparagus. It's like her,

her go-to. And we're all talking about the meat. And so we talk about like, how much meat do we eat? So like one guy's like, oh, my wife needs to eat more meat. Sal, talk to her. It's like, Sal,

how much meat do you eat? Every single day. I'm like, do you want me? Like two pounds? Like around two pounds? bro people looked at me like i was like two pounds of meat you eat two pounds of meat a day i'm like yeah did you flex for them afterwards no but i mean that's where you flex you're here yeah what do you think you just got here yeah the carbs did this well this is this is it from rice you know what though

which which uh whenever i talk to people outside of our fitness right right they think it's it's crazy it is crazy to people like that because it's so much people this is this is the reason why hammer this on the podcast so much. I always know, like, we have, like, we have, like, a divided audience. We have, um, hardcore fitness people that listen to this because they're hardcore fitness people. And then we have people that are being introduced to fitness that are, they're listening to us. And the hardcore fitness people think it's like, of course I eat that much protein.

Of course is it. A gram of protein per pound a body weight all the time. Yeah, all the time. No problem. This and that. And I eat lots. It's like, dude, the average person thinks they're eating a lot of protein because they have dinner with, they have one.

They have one piece of meat. Or they had a turkey sandwich. Yes. Cool. He had 10 grams. Yes. Or an egg. 180 to go.

They had an egg or two for breakfast. And so they're like protein eaters. Well, so we were talking about this and they're like, how do you like, you know, how does this work? So I started talking about butcher box and, you know, how they deliver all this meat. And they're like, do you eat all that meat that they send you? I'm like, we more than. We order on top of that. We get meat on top of the butcher box.

Same. Yeah, just kind of breaking it down. And I'm like, we blow through the tri-tip that they send us. I've never. actually, have you ever tried to calculate the amount of pounds of meat you get when you, when you get in the box? I don't know. I don't know.

Because the kids are eating a lot of it. Really depends on what you're ordering. Well, we have the, I get the big box. Yeah, we all. Yeah, but I mean, if you order the chicken versus ordering, uh, like rib eyes, for example, you're going to get more chicken. Oh, right.

Pound wise than you are rib eyes. It would be just interesting. I'm sure on the box has got the net weight on there. I wonder what, I'm just curious. Yeah, I'm kind of curious until you said that because I, I always thought, I thought, thought when we first started getting him, I thought like, why, I remember telling Katrina, like, why is our grocery bill? So she's like, you really think that butcher boxes lasting us the old? Because they send us a $200-something dollar box. Yeah, yeah, no. We have a, kind of a small family.

Yeah, yeah. What's going on here, Adam? It's just you Katrina and Matt. We eat a lot of protein. Oh, my son, dude, I love my heart. So this weekend was my birthday and his best friend's mom. We celebrated on Friday, both Katrina and I's together. And she's like, hey, I think, I think I'm going to have Julian's parents, who's Max's best friend's parents, who we really like a lot, just pick him up from school and keep him until like 8 or 8.30 and then she'll bring him home with that. And so throughout the party, Continu was getting all these pictures of him, you know, eating popcorn and have a movie night. And they ordered hamburgers in. And he gave back the buns and just ate the meat. Oh, God.

And I did not teach him to do that. My son just loves meat. Doesn't care for buns. That's so great. Doesn't care for buns. Turned down pizza last night and just like, and rather have the tri-tip steak. And so I'm sure parents are,

oh, my God, he's got the fitness dad. Yeah, I'm sure they think that. Are they tyrannizing this? Yeah, yeah. He told, so that his dad, his dad's really cool.

His dad's like, he's like, you don't want the bun or any of the fries or anything? He's, he's, oh, no, I'm kind of a meat guy. And so Carlos, the dad starts laughing. He's like, I'm a meat guy too. I like it. I like, my son went to Sunday school the other day.

And they were like, tell him, it's his, you know, he's telling us, Mom, tell him it's my birthday. They give us a lollipops. We're like, all right. So we tell him, you know, it's his birthday. So he goes in there.

We're in the service. And one of the people comes and finds us in the service. And she's like, is, is this lollipop okay? He asked if it had red dye in it. Like, oh, yeah. He asked about the red dye. Yeah. He's like, he gave him a lollipop.

He's like, wait a minute. Does this have red dye, whatever? Blue dye this. I made the same mistake. Max always asked a little time I'm all embarrassed. I'm like, oh, God, I went too far with that one. I didn't mean to do that. But hey, dude, listen, we've said this on the show many times.

And I don't eat, I always eat high protein, but I've made a conscious effort. Typically, I fall around 190 grams of protein a day, give or take. But lately I've been trying to go 220 consistently because I weigh about 215-ish pounds. So I'm like, you know what, let me, and I'm lean. So it's not like I'm, you know, I'm hitting close to lean body weight. So I'm aiming for an additional 30, 40 grams a day. Big difference. You did really?

Big difference. It's just that extra 30, 40 grams. I always noticed that. And it's not like I was eating low before. It's just that extra serving. And it's not a lot of calories because it's really lean. I'm only adding a couple hundred calories. So much work.

Dude. It's a lot, dude. It's so much work. I have to add shakes. I'm only when I'm body building. Did I ever be that? Was I ever that consistent with 230 grams plus? But I noticed strength right away.

I noticed recovery right away. I got noticed sleep. Sleep? Right away, that's the selfie I sent you guys when I made a joke. I'm like, look this guys. All natural herbs. But it's because I've been hit protein. He used to Justin blew it up.

He did. Does anybody put wallet pictures anymore? Do you guys ever use that? No. I told you, I used to show your girlfriend, right? The Olin Mills pick. This is my girlfriend from...

I have a box from high school still that have all that stuff still in there. You saved them? Yeah, I saved them this whole time. We got all the pictures of... So here's the thing, though. I dated a girl, like my girlfriend, my junior... Wait a minute, what are these pictures of? Oh, your ex-girlfriends?

Yeah, they're all in there too. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Like their volleyball pick where they're like, you know... Yeah, totally. No, the cheerleader one with like this and the legs are crossed in the back. All right. This one was...

Yeah. You know? Yeah. That was classic. So, I mean, so the two girls I dated in high school, my sophomore girlfriend and my junior senior girlfriend all were like... photographer chicks. So this was before everybody, every phone had a

Yeah, yeah, you got to remember that, right? So like they literally like carried cameras around like one of, uh, the, the girl and sophomore was, um, what's it, ASB was in part of that and was like the, whatever one was part of your book and taking pictures. So she, camera all the time. We were dating. So she took pictures all the time. And then my next girlfriend was like hardcore to, you're in the yearbook.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then the next girlfriend was hardcore to, photography. So yeah, I have this just big shoebox that's just overflowing of like photos. Do you guys have your yearbooks?

Oh, yeah, of course. Why haven't we brought them in? Oh, we haven't. You know, it's funny as to read people's comments. Oh, it's so funny. I had a stupid thing I signed. So dumb. Oh, what did you say? Life is a joke. Laugh it up. Wait, this is your thing?

That was my thing, dude. What made you decide? I don't fucking know. Oh, wow. I have no idea. That should be your new profile. Come on. I was a teenage kid, you know what I'm saying?

Like, I have no idea. This would be cool. Yeah. This would be cool in 30 years. So I'll be back. Real cool guy. I don't know. I'm sure I wrote Italian Stein on 90% of whatever.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You know, this is a good lesson for kids. Everything you do now you will hate in the future. You're dumb. As cool as you think you are, you're going to think you're stupid. I probably wrote some Beavis and Butthead thing or something stupid. Remember how stupid, like, the shows you watched back in the day?

I was getting angry because of my kids, like, you know, they're, they're into some, like, stupid SpongeBob or some, like, I don't know, there's some new show that's, like a cartoon where it's just like the, it's just so. Is it friendly, something friend? Yes, something friend. I knew it. Yeah. I knew they watched that. Yes. They love it.

And I'm like, something friends. Yeah. Oh, it's hilarious. It's really funny. It's really dumb, but it, like, brought me back. And I was like, what is it? yelling? We were into really dumb shows. You don't know? You're already too old?

It's on Amazon. I want to say it's on Amazon. It's on... It's something friends and it's... Amazon and I think it's... And it's so random. And so I sent... Did I send you guys a clip? So you'll find clips of this show and you can't even believe stuff on the stuff they do. It's wild. Is it because it's so politically incorrect?

Is it because it's so random? It's just random and dumb. What would you guys compare it to? Because we, like, Beavis and Butthead was random and dumb. It's kind of like Ren and Stimpy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Those are, like, there's one where the guys go.

So these are like, they're like rent-a-friends. So they go to cheer people up. Yeah. And that's their jobs. And there was one episode, but one of them goes to hell. And he's like, stuck in hell. And he makes a deal with, with the devil. He's like, if I make you laugh, like, can I leave?

He's like, yeah. And the devil's like this really angsty dude. Like, like, he's like on a, he's playing video games. He just gave up. And everybody in hell is like, dude, he's not himself. He doesn't even, like, torturing anyone anymore. He's got to cheer him up. And he's just in there playing video games.

And he's like ordering. DoorDash, you know? It's so stupid, dude. It's so dumb. So that's still a thing. Yeah. I love it. That's a good one.

Did you have like a sign-off? Do you remember your sign-off like yearbook? I bet you did. I totally did. I don't remember what I said. It was really dumb, I'm sure. It was like something like something about like party or whatever like. What?

Party on. Party on. Yeah, I was like Wayne and Garth or something. Like party on. like with like a hang loose like cool you know what's yours was just really I don't remember

it was probably sign the Italian's telling something like that dude it was something like that I can guarantee I mean I think yours wins if that's what it is because I still do it yeah

I stuck with it mine is mine was like probably some sort of like hidden trauma front you know what I'm saying like like I mean those are like rough gears for sure my laughter massed my tears

yeah no totally seriously like if I think about like okay I'm trying to think about we're talking here. I'm like, why would I even say that? And I'm like, I probably said it because those were hard times for me at home. Oh, that's sad. And so home, it was just like, I just was, but I had such a, I had such a positive attitude, though. Like I didn't, and so that's what that was. But that's probably a lot of that is, like, that's, like, that's, like, I was like, I was a very happy kid. Yeah. Very happy kid. You are resilient as hell.

I was, uh, talking with someone, uh, the other day about, she was thinking about stuff she did when she was 15 and how, you know, she's like, I know it was supposed to be traumatic, but it really wasn't for me until I had a 15-year-old kid. And then I, for some reason, I said, what if that happened to my child? And then she's like, oh, my God. And there's a psychological phenomenon where if,

when you think back to when you were a kid, you can't not have your current mindset and wisdom. So when you think back to like, yeah, it wasn't that bad when I was 15. It was. You're just thinking. of it now with your... I told you that just happened to me.

You did... I told you that. I didn't share that on air, but... Adam Lane Smith... Oh, that's right. And, you know, asked about my...

Myself, like, as a... Or no, not Adam Lane Smith. This was... Thank you. Larry Hagner from Dad Project asked me that. Totally caught me off guard. Because I remember

when I turned the age that my dad was when he committed suicide. And my entire... So I was seven when he took his life. So from seven all the way to my 30s, if you asked me about it, I could comfortably just talk about it. No big deal. And not that was no big deal, but it's just that I had dealt with that. I hadn't really thought about it a lot.

Didn't really weigh on me much. I mean, in fact, most of my life, I was used to growing up without him and whatever, right? But the year I turned the same age that he did when he had committed suicide, it hit me different. Because I'm now that age, and I'm thinking, God, to exit right now. Yeah. Like, and this is, I mean, this is 32. So this is well before Mac. I'm just barely dating Katrina at the time. But life is good. And I'm, and at that time, I feel like there's so much more ahead of me. I'm like, man, I couldn't imagine going on. Then, so fast forward, Larry Hagner's in here and he's interviewing me. And he also, his father committed suicides. We have that in common. We've talked about, I've had a couple good episodes with him before getting into that deep stuff. And he hadn't seen me since. since right when Max was born, it was the last time I interviewed with him was almost six years ago.

And he's like, he brings up my dad stuff again. And then he goes, you know, have you thought about your son is almost the same age as you were when he took it? And boy, like...

Because now you can see. Yeah. Is that wild? It hit me like a ton of bricks because when I thought about it as a 32 or as his daughter, like I thought about it the most that year of my life.

And I thought, oh, wow, I can't believe he exited like this. But it didn't hit. me like a ton of bricks. It hit me like a ton of bricks. I mean, like, I remember on air, I paused like for a really long time and I was like, whew. Like, I hadn't thought about that because I had never tried to look at it through my own lens. Yeah. I was looking, even when I thought about it with my dad, I thought about it through his lens at 32 as a man. It was a grown man and where I'm in

life, not as a little innocent child. Perspective of a kid. So to, to put it in perspective. Yeah, because now you see your son. Yeah, I see my son. Oh, my God. Oh, it just, it took me back. Dude, it took me back and I went, whoa. I was like, what a different hit. It's a really good exercise for people. We've all been through stuff. Everybody has some more than others. Think back to those challenging moments.

And then imagine it happening to someone that you know or care about that to that age. You can really, really understand the trauma versus looking back at your current state of mind. You know what's a trip about it, Sal? Because I did a lot of, like, unpacking, right, on it. that really tripped me out was that when I was that age, when that all happened, I felt like I was the mind of a 15 year old. That's right.

Or 18 year old. You know what I'm like that? As crazy as that sounds. But I thought I had so much more responsibility. I thought I understood so much of the world. And then I see how innocent my son is. You're still a kid. Oh, he's just a, he's like still a baby to me.

You know what I'm saying? He's so, so innocent. But then also makes me very aware, like, whoa, there's a lot going on in that brain more than he, just because he talks about simple things and stuff like that, those wheels, because I know what my wheels were turning when that happened in my life. And I know how much of that time I remember that I go, whoa, like that. So it took me back in double, double way. One, it put me in, like, looking through my own, trying to look through my own eyes through my son at that age. Like, holy shit, that's crazy, how young that is for that to have happened. And then two, it was, boy, I remember a lot going on and thought a lot.

And, like, I thought I had deep thoughts. Yeah. So, like, whoa, he's got deeper thoughts than you think. Totally. I was thinking about just because my daughter's about to get her license and drive. And I think back to the crazy things I did in a car back then. And as an adult, I'm like, oh, my God, that was crazy. Now that I have a kid who's going to drive.

And I think, if she did that. And then I realized, like, I was a child. What was I thinking? And it puts things in a different, completely different perspective. Yeah. But it's also good, too, to, you know, building that practice because a lot of times we can be like,

I can't believe they did that. Then you, like, forget that, like, the wild shit that you did and still survived. But it is like, it's scary, man. I'm going to that same thing, like, with the driving. Yes. Like, it's really, it's really eating at me. And it's like, well, he's going to be fine. You know, everything's, and there's going to be a lot of benefit to it.

But it's really. like it puts the brakes on everything. You think you're so confident at that. I'm like, ah. When I was 16, I was so. Now, with you guys, I imagine, because you actually are, I know you can tend to be more like nervous about that than you. You're the one who pushes Courtney, right, when it comes to like, let him be free.

Let them figure it out, right? Are you that way or is Jessica more that way? That's a good question. I'm probably more. Protect. No, you are. No, she's probably more protected. with the little ones,

but with my older ones, I tend to be a little bit more protective. But that's different. That's just because of the divorce, I have this tough time, you know, not trying to corral everything, which is just a totally different thing. But I can see with the little ones,

I'm a little bit more push them out, maybe. You have to ask me again. I'd have to think about that. I mean, it's something that I know that Katrina and I are working on. Like, like, and I, again, especially after Adam Lane Smith, understanding that like, you know, she's the CEO in this and like has a very good wise voice.

And so like I don't push that hard, but I'll say things like just to her morning. We, we were sleeping in. And Max is at this wonderful age where he can go down and kind of make himself breakfast and kind of hang around and play and do his own thing for like the first hour or two. And we can actually sleep in a little bit on Saturday mornings. And so it was especially when we have a late Friday night like we did. And so we were doing this. and she gets up and she, like, cracks open the door. And I'm, like, trying to sleep.

I don't want to hear him with his toys. And I'm like, what are you doing? I'm like, the kid knows how to open a door. Why do you got to open the door? I want to hear my son. I'm like, oh, okay, whatever. So I go back to sleep, you know, trying to figure out. But that's like one of those things of like,

I'm so ready to let him have more independence. And I trust him, especially him. He's not like, he's not the kid who's going to get up, climb on the counter and get into the knives. No. Like, that's just not my son. Like he's not like that at all. So I have that confidence.

Now, maybe if he was a kid like that, that it was always breaking things or getting stuff, maybe I'd be a little more like that. But because I feel like he's really sound when it comes to that stuff. There's some kids where it fits too quiet, you got to go check them. Yeah, no, no, no, totally. Like, I get that.

Like, and he's not that kid. I'm like, you're going to go down there. And he's like drawing a pitcher on the freaking, you know what I'm saying? Or he's playing with his trucks by himself. Like, that was always a deal. Like I was making, especially with my oldest with Ethan, it's like, if he keeps proving that he's going to make the right decision when he's challenged,

like I have to reward that. And so, and that's kind of where, you know, we discussed it a lot. And it makes, you know, it's uncomfortable because there's like,

he'll be somewhere. We know he's there. And I'm like, I know his plan, but then she'll be looking on the phone. She can see he's not there and starts freaking out. And I'm like, they're on a run.

They're going to get some food. They're doing, like, it's not a big deal. Like, stop, stop. You know, and like,

let him, You just have to give him space. Yeah. And it's, it's difficult because I'm like, he's going to make the right decision. Even then, like, let's say he gets in like a situation where it's unsafe. He's going to call me. Yeah. And we've established that.

And like, I have to trust he's going to do that. Or it's like, then he's not going to tell us. Yeah. It's like one or the other. Yeah. You know, what are we, what are we like leading towards with this? And so it's tough. I just saw our boy do a video on that, that, that, um, why his name, slip.

me right now who we're doing the mentor family with um Scott Donald Scott Donald shout out to Scott Donald just did a clip on that exact thing and he calls it the uh no no no rule call or no no questions asked call and so he if you have a teenager he goes come pick me up we have a rule that no matter what trouble you're in what you did wrong or whatever like that that if you don't feel safe you want out you need help no judgment you You call, you call us and no questions asked and you won't get punished. We won't ask you or berate you what's going on. Like, that's just, you know you have that with us.

That's great. Yeah. And I think that's how you build that where the kid feels, because that's where you don't do that. You know what I'm saying? You know, I could exactly, because some kids like, man, all my friends are smoking pot or they're all going to do this thing. I don't want to be here. But if I tell my parents, somebody get in trouble.

Yeah. You know, whereas they know there's no questions asked. Like I'll get bailed out. I'll be able to bounce. My parents aren't going to ask me. Yep. And what's funny is you'd probably end up telling your parents anyway. Right.

Yeah. Right. And then it's up to you as a parent to keep your cool and not get upset that your kid was somewhere where he wasn't supposed to be or at a party where you originally said there was going to be a parent or whatever the thing may be. But I mean, I think it's such an important thing to establish with your teenagers. So they feel safe to be able to have that conversation, you know. So I was, so this is part of the commercial, Adam. So I'm sorry to ask you this. I'm in prepare.

But for Rock Recovery Center. I know you're going through the still with the withdrawal with Kratum. Yeah. And this is what day 10? I'm like on. So it was Wednesday of last week and I'm already on Monday of this. So we're on, uh, does that, 12? 12, 12, something like that.

And it's nasty. Yeah. Now, because rock recovery for people who don't know, this is a rehab facility. It's what they specialize in, right? So you go in there, you stay there. We partner with them because we love them. They do a great, great job. what do you think would be the benefits for somebody going through

even something like what you're going through in a facility like that? Do you think it would just the fact that you're there? If they were, because we have a relationship with them and they were here, I would have checked myself. Really? Oh, I told Katrina that that's how this came out was I looked at her and I said, I know that I'm so bad that I think I might have to check myself in. And I don't want to do that.

And so a lot of my motivation to keep going was to prove to myself that I wasn't going to have to take a week or a month off and lock myself into a facility where there'd be people around the clock supporting me and helped me. And she was like, I don't think anybody else could have done that by themselves. She's watching what you went through, knowing I couldn't do anything for you, not having any. because there's a lot of stuff that the recovery centers have to support you, like medication-wise and stuff like that, to ease the withdrawal, which is got to be unbelievable. Like to be in a facility where you have support.

That's what you're doing. Yeah, exactly. Support professionals, tools, medications, all the things. People that have been through it, they know exactly, oh, he's feeling this right now. Give him this. Or, oh, he's this what he needs to do. And there's 24 hours. Yeah, and there's 24-hour support.

Yeah, no, I was on the brink of that, dude. I told her exactly that, that if I couldn't do it and I was going to, I was going to check in to make sure that I, I mean, to me it was that if I can't prove to myself right now that I can do this 100% then that I need to admit that I need somebody to help me. So that was, that was this. One thing you did that is part of their program and other programs, but they do this a lot. You said what brought you, what helped you a lot was watching people talk about their challenges with Kratum.

Yeah, I didn't. And so, like, I know Rock Recovery does this, right? Where you meet, you do these meetings with other people and you, and it helps. I guess I, for the first time of my life, I understand the AA meetings now. I understand that more. It was, I tell you, I'm no exaggeration. I probably watched 50 recovery videos. of like long 20, 30 minute videos.

What is it about that helps? Is it just like, okay, someone else has done this? They've gone through this as well. Yeah, I think there's a lot of little things. Like, so when you're in it, you're like, you have, like, especially when it's getting worse as you first get in it, you're like, oh, fuck. Like, how long is this going to just keep getting worse and is it, and like what to expect? So hearing people that have come out the other side and be like, it was like this.

and then and then going like, okay, that's what I'm going through right now. Like, okay. Sure. So just being able to relate to somebody like, okay, this person went this, where this is where they were at and this is how long it took that. And, oh, okay, I'm, what I'm feeling right now is the worst part. This is what they, they, they also experienced this at this time. Relating that, you know, I'm sure there's a, there's a, there's a part of my, myself that, you know,

beats your own, beats up your ego that you allowed something like this, you know, to happen to you. So hearing other people, especially when you, I mean, I saw all kinds of crazy stories. And when you saw, you know, professional people and people that have a lot of think good things going in their life. Like, you know, you tend to attach addiction to losers or this or that. And so it's like, there's a lot of people who are just normal people that let something like this get a hold of them. And so that part helps. Yeah, there's a lot of things that I didn't realize. It wasn't like I went in like, I need to watch videos.

I just was like researching and then it started and I was drawn to it. And then I realized like it just. And it gave you strength. Yeah. It just gave me strength through. I mean, you're not sleeping for days. And so, and trying to sleep is painful. So just being up.

A lot of times what I would do is I would start watching. them like on YouTube, but just even sitting still on the couch or in my bed was too much. So I'd throw it on my, my headphones and then just go for a walk and listen to the recovery talks, you know, the people just that are going through it or been through it. And yeah, no, that's what kept me going through the hardest part for sure. Well, so, yeah, people, you can go on their site and they give out scholarships. So, you know, if you need help or someone else, go there. Along, along the lines of kind of just, you know, just talking about the things that we're, struggle with or thankful for.

I know this episode drops on Thanksgiving. Is that true? Right. So it's perfect timing. So I texted you, Adam. I was driving. And I just was, I don't remember where I was going. And I was praying.

And I just started to just be thankful and look back. And just having these realizations, just being blessed with these realizations. You know, how awesome I used to think I was. This doesn't sound like an awesome, a great realization. but it really is because had you asked me then I wouldn't have thought this but looking back I'm like man I thought I was so awesome I thought it was all I was so great but really um it's not it's not me none of it is and even just this just what we do here without you guys this wouldn't exist at all uh and so I was just feeling so grateful that um that you know what I get to do this and I the people that I've been put

with we're the right exact perfect people to make something like this possible because without you guys and your strengths and what you guys can do like this none of this would be possible so it was just it was just just wonderful very thankful humbling but in a good way you know drive I have I have more thoughts around that just for you because I know where you're at in your journey right now too and you're just in a humble gratitude place of of understanding the power of God and how he can work in your lives. But also one of my favorite verses in the Bible

is faith without work is dead. And so he can give you all the gifts in the world. But if you don't take action and you don't do anything with him, they don't happen, bro. So yes, you are blessed. Yes, we are blessed. Yes, you know, he probably put this all together. but all it takes is one of us not having the faith,

not putting the work in for it not to manifest. Well, even that's a blessing. Even that's a blessing. Even the story we tell the story we've told many times where we recorded, I don't know, 15 episodes. We had a fifth partner, and he dropped out. And I've told the story before, but now I see it differently. He drops out, and he had the social media pull.

He was the one that was going to give us our initial growth. And I think most people would have been like, we just did all that work. The guy with the following is gone. Like, let's just, I don't know. What are we going to do? Let's just stop this because we spent so much time doing it. And instead, every one of us was like, no. That's a gift.

That was a blessing. Yeah, but you got gifts and blessings before you found him and you've used them and you put them to work. You know, we all are not attracted to each other if we don't have those things. And so all I'm saying to you is that, you know, it's, you know, it's, you, you know, Very much so he has a plan. Very much so he gave you wonderful gifts. But there's a lot of people that have wonderful gifts that don't put the work in,

that don't have the faith and don't do those things. And so it doesn't just also just miraculously happen. And so it takes a lot of effort, whether you knew you were doing his work or not. You know, he knows more than you or I ever will. And sometimes it's always part of the plan. And so, but to not also understand that it takes effort. It takes work. And, you know, faith without work is dead.

And so, you know, a lot of people, you know, pray and hope for things to happen and they just wait. And it's very important that you also work and you put the work in, too. It's good. Good stuff. So hard transition, but we have for our Black Friday sale, so right? So 60% off everything, all the programs. Plus every purchase enters you into our contest for like the week free vacation at Park City, personal training.

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muscle recovery benefits, stamina benefits, mental health benefits, still backed by data. Again, seeds the world's best. Go to cd.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code 20. Mind pump for 20% off. Back to the show. First question is from no insta, Kelsey.

What are kind of healthy foods to your toddlers like to eat? I'm struggling with my son. Oh, good question. My toddler's healthy foods that we give them that they like would be berries, cheese, nuts, fruit, and, you know, different kind of meats.

My kids will actually enjoy eating, different kind of meats. Butcher box has really good gluten-free nuggets, which are like a treat for them. But, you know, I think one of the challenges with this with toddlers is we can give them things that are hyper-palatable. And then when they know that's an option, they won't eat other things. When kids are hungry, they tend to eat. And I know some kids are way more picky than others. I get that. But I think sometimes we give them these different options. And then we're like, okay, well, why won't you eat these? Well, I want the crackers that I always eat, you know, type of deal.

Yeah, I feel like I'm less qualified to answer because I only have one kid. But I know what we did with him. There were none of those options. It was, he ate what we ate. And, you know, sometimes he wasn't as hungry. And so we didn't feed him that much. But then when he was hungry, then we fed him what we ate. And so I think what happened.

And so my best friend is trying to unravel this right now with his. wife. And he has kind of like his stern way. He was he was talking to me. I try and tell her. I'm just don't eat, don't feed them. Don't feed him. And we were laughing, right, kind of tongue and cheek, but he's serious. And I agree with him. It's just that if you don't give them the treats and snacks, eventually they will get really hungry. And eventually sweet potato and chicken or steak or whatever tastes really good. It's amazing when you are absolutely hungry. But what happens when we introduce a lot of these processed hyper-palatable foods to kids at a very early age, it hits that reward center and they crave it. And so when they say they're hungry, they're really not hungry. They're craving

that snack or that treat that you've allowed them to have in the past. And so, and then you want, then you want to sit down and have dinner and they're like, well, no, I want the goldfish or I want the whatever the processed food thing that you've allowed them. And they think that that's an option. And it's like, no, this is just, this is what we have to eat. And if you're not hungry, you know, but what you do is you don't, in my opinion, okay, everyone's different. I would just be like, oh, okay, if you're not hungry, son, you don't have to eat right now. Let me know when you're hungry. And then when he's hungry, then we eat that.

That's the option. And with kids, it's like consistency is so important. It's so important that you're consistent with that. If you are trying to get him to eat these good foods and then, you know, pizzas on Tuesday with the family, you guys go buy McDonald's on Wednesdays. And then you're also, it's like, man, you're just going to have an uphill battle. Like, um, but we, we were this, we were very mindful of this from day one and we're very consistent.

And what's cool for the, maybe early parents is that it's cool if you lay the foundation early while they're toddlers because now at six years old, I'll let my son almost eat anything he wants. And it's so cool that I just told the story earlier on the podcast that he was at a friend's house. They ordered burgers. My son gave back the buns and the fries. and ate just a meat. And it's not because I tell him he can't do that. If he wouldn't eat a burger, I wouldn't care.

But he's eaten consistently like that for so long. That's what he craves and that's what he likes. Yeah. I don't have much to contribute because they're so old now. But, I mean, it really boils down to the consistency of it. And it was for us, it was to find those healthy foods they actually do like. And so this was something I kind of worked with my wife. It was like, okay, he really likes this type of meat.

And, you know, to make sure that we still had that available, we introduced something new on top of that. Just so you kind of start stacking other options around. But because we get in that point where we have a really, like our first kid was very on board. Like he would eat all the healthy food. But, you know, the youngest had was very stubborn and would just hold out. And so he wouldn't eat. And he wouldn't eat for a day. And then he wouldn't eat for the next day.

And we're just like, okay, we got to feed him something. This kid is crazy stubborn. Yeah. And then so we would just, okay, well, he will eat this, so we're going to make this. But you have to, you know, and it was just like consistently, you know, a lot of times you want to abandon ship and make things easy. And I understand that. And it's, we were tempted to do that a lot. But, you know, it's part of being a parent.

It's tough. Do you remember when Everett made the turn? Because I know that you've shared this story a little bit before how dialed you guys were with Everett. You were a little more loose. I mean with Ethan You were a little more loose with Everett You felt like you noticed the difference Probably being loose

And then how did you re-correct? Because I feel like he's good at he's good Yeah I think he's a good eater now Yeah he's a good eater now And it's it I think it was more when he was around 10 or so Like 9-10 Like it was a battle up till then

Like from a toddler up until then And it's just how it was with him And you know Just establishing that though He's got a good baseline And so he'll He'll still be able to have a treat and then leave it and not eat the whole thing and you know and that kind of thing.

But again, because the oldest will now have exposure to friends who have like candy or have like these other things. And then that's how he was starting, that was starting to trickle down to him. And so, you know, you're going to battle that. But yeah, again, it's, this is like what we're eating is your and I like that because we, we tried to establish the same thing is like what we're all eating as a family is what we're eating. And then. You know, from there, if you're still hungry, like, we have it available, but it's not in the house. Yeah. Next question is from Kevin O.G.

Is it okay to change rep ranges and adjust weights for Maps 15? Yeah, I hope you do. Yeah. I mean, adjust weights for sure, if you get stronger. Rep ranges, the rep ranges that are effective for building muscle and strength are wide. There's a wide range. It's between one to probably around 25, I would say. But I'd say, for argument's sake, you probably want to stay.

within the rep ranges of like six to 15. Why not below six? You can below six, but it requires better technique and focus. Why not above 15? Stamina starts to play a role, which is okay if that's what you want to train for. But I think between six to 15 is a nice range

for people to work within. And if you go lower rep, you're going to have to add the weight. And if you go higher rep, you're going to have to lower the weight. But there's nothing wrong at all with a job. I mean, you should adjust rep ranges for well development.

I used to tell clients the rule of five, just go five, ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five. So like those, like those are, you stay in one of those rep ranges. Either running fives, running tens, running fiftines, running 20s. You can go to 25. But that was kind of the idea of like, if you want to change your rep ranges, rule of five. You know, if you've been doing fives, go to tens and 15s and 20. That's a good job. And they're different enough, right?

The difference between five and 10 and 10 and 15 and 20 is enough to create a novel stimulus to you. but, you know, absolutely adjust it. But we always, I do want to make a point to say this, though, not including weights. If you are strong and the weight you chose the last week is too light, add weight. Go more. We'll always say that. Especially in that type of a structure with the MF 15,

I think it, like, invites you to really crank that dial, that intensity dial a bit more because you have the opportunity to, you know, recover. And it's very beneficial for that. So from that perspective, anytime you can add weights, add weights. But I always encourage people to run our programs as laid out in regards to sets and reps and the way the program and exercise selection at least one time all the way through to let the program and do what it's supposed to. Unless this is an advanced, you know, personal trainer who's asking this question and then,

you know, why are you asking this question? You can do that. But for most people, you will benefit from running through the professional protocol that we built and then modifying it to like some of the questions you're asking. Next question is from Sam O'Day. Is it possible to build muscle in a deficit when you're obese? My thinking is your body has enough energy to use that you can still build muscle as long as you're hitting your protein target, even if you're in a deficit.

So this is a good question because we've said before that if you're not, if you're not feeding yourself excess calories, your body doesn't have, The materials. The materials to build. So it's a logical question, right? Well, I have excess calories stored on my body. Can that make up the difference? No.

And here's why. Now, technically, can you build muscle in a cut? You can. But here's why this doesn't happen. When you're in a deficit, your body is thinking conserved. Preservation. Yes.

So building muscle is a counter signal. It's counter signal. If I'm eating less. calories that I'm burning and my body's having to tap into itself, albeit stored body fat, it really doesn't want to add this active tissue called muscle that's going to, for lack of better term, speed up in metabolism. So it's sending a signal that says, don't try to burn more calories. Let's get that.

In fact, the signal you're sending in a deficit is to pair muscle down. Now, if you strength train and hit high protein while being a calorie deficit, you'll mitigate that quite a bit, maybe even negate it completely. through that process. But being in a deficit and trying to build, this is like, it's like, you know, turning a light switch on and off at the same time. Like a lot of times it doesn't happen. Now, I want to address the anomalies that somebody who's listening is like, but wait a second, I was on a weight loss journey and lost 50 pounds and I did up a dexter skin and I saw I did build muscle. And I've addressed this before. If you're on a calorie deficit, that isn't like a

dramatic calorie deficit. Like you're not on a thousand, 1500 calorie deficit every single day. it's not like our bodies working on this perfect clock seven day a week 24 hours like so what it means is that in a 30 day window you are you are mostly in a deficit but there can be periods of time say you ate a big meal where your body signals that you're in a slight surplus even though you're in a total deficit overall and so there's a possibility that somebody who is in a deficit trying to lose might add a couple pounds of muscle build it. through that process. Normally that means they were at a really good deficit, like they're not too extreme of a deficit so that there's actually sometimes in the deficit where their bodies at a maintenance or even a little bit of a surplus. But the overall 30-day window looks like a total deficit. And so you'll see that sometimes where if you are, but at the end of the day, you're lifting weights to spare as much muscle as you can. You're in a diet. That's why you're lifting in a deficit. You are lifting to send a signal to hang on that muscle because if you don't,

because I don't want the attitude of this person, be like, oh, well, shit, if I can't can't build muscle while on this weight loss program, I might as well stop lifting weights. No, that would be a horrible idea because then what will happen is you actually might see the scale go down a little bit faster, but then you'll be pairing down muscle. 40% of the weight loss will be muscle. Yes. So you are sending a signal to the body to just hold on to the, we need this muscle.

We may not be having enough nit material to go build muscle, but we're not going to get rid of any of this that we already have because this guy's making me still lift weights. So I'm going to keep that, which so dropping 20 pounds on the scale and losing no muscle is a bigger success than losing 30 pounds on the scale and having lost 10 or 12 pounds of muscle along with those 20 pounds of fat. So keep that in mind. Next question is from Wally.

How do you deal with a mass amount of clients? I have 17 clients right now, and I am finding it difficult to stay on top of their programming and progress at times. This is interesting because 17 clients isn't a ton. I mean, are you training them four days a week each or three days a week each? It's a business, you've got yourself a decent book.

Yeah. This is probably, you're looking at 34, maybe 40 sessions a week, probably more like 30 sessions a week, which is full time. Yeah. But you may be, you may find it difficult to stay up on the programming because you're writing up their programming well before their workouts and you're doing all that. When, and I used to do this as an early trainer, I write up the workouts before they come in. And then I realized when I were training clients, I'd have to change so much of it while I was

training them because I was watching the move. And like, well, I have this exercise down, but really I got to do this. First you have to learn to unlearn, though. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. It's true. Yes, you got to go through that process. Yeah.

So these types of questions sometimes, dude, I'm, oh. I wish you guys did this when I was a 19, 20-year-old trainer, and I had nothing to do with you guys, and you guys built all this stuff because I would rip all your shit. And I would have made four times as much money as I made as a trainer. The fact that we have all this free content. and even our programs that all go on sale for 60% off. So I don't know, do the math if you owned every single program and mod and free guide we had. Like, I would have all of that at access. I would never write a program again.

I would pull from your guys' stuff. I would then take two minutes to customize it to the client who had rolled their ankle or can't go four days a week or two days a week, maybe cross out this exercise. Oh, do this one instead. And like, be done with it. Like, why would I, why, especially as a trainer who's less than a decade into training, think that I'm going to sit down and write better programs for my client five years into my career than these jerkoffs who've been doing it for 60 years and thousands of clients.

And they have all this stuff. Like, blows my, when we meet trainers that don't take all of our stuff, like, dude, go take it and go help people. Yeah, for sure. There's so many tools now. But again, I'm going to go back to like, okay, 17 clients. And yeah, look, when you're training 30 sessions a week, it does, you're on for 30 hours. If you have no systems, maybe. But like, come on.

I look, you guys know how disorganized I am. I don't have any systems. That's exactly like, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. I'd steal all this stuff. I still could do that. I had, I had no. I was unorganized. So over the three of us, Justin was the most organized by far.

For sure. Sal and I were a shit show. Posted notes, whatever, on the fly. Yeah, but it's all up here. And it's like, you just, you go. But I mean, this didn't exist. Yeah. Like, if this existed, I know.

I mean, I would be. Especially with CRM. Bro, I would use all of your guys' stuff. Like, everything. I wouldn't even answer questions anymore. I'd go to ask me. Client would ask me a question. I'd be like, give me two minutes.

But ask mypump.com. I plug it in. And then be like, here, I made a YouTube video for you. If it's not in 40s a week, you're like. I do also think there's a, I think some trainers over program when it comes with a client. Now, programming is more, you have to be more precise when programming. When I'm writing a program for someone, I'm not going to train.

If someone tells me I'm going to work out for the next three months, like, I'm having to, that's when it matters. I have to really think about it. Yeah. When you're coming to me and every time you work out, you're with me, I'm going to usually do full body. And I'm going to watch how you move. And based on how you move and how you felt yesterday and how your sleep was, which I'm going to ask you every session, my workout is going to adjust in the session. And so there's not a lot of... You have a skeleton for it, but literally everything is modified.

The best trainers that listen to us and follow us, the top trainers, use all the math programs for the scaffolding. That's what they do. That is like every... The client, maps anabolic or whatever. That's what they're following. And then they make micro adjustments based off... On the fly. Yes, on the fly.

But that is their scaffolding. It's like, this is what we're doing today. And then, oh, that client can't do barbell back squat. So I just put this in. Like that's like, that's the majority. of your programming thinking, like the fact that you would, when the resources that are out there are, like, you're hurting Adam right now.

Oh, my God. Well, it's crazy because, like, I know, I can relate to this guy or girl, guy, girl, do we know? Like as a guy. Okay, we can relate to this person because I was, I was, as if not more disorganized than you were. So I was definitely, but stuff like this didn't exist. Yeah.

There wasn't somebody giving all the programs for every type of client you had. There wasn't like an ass mindpump.com that gives me all the answers. It wasn't YouTube clips, bro. Now there were the white papers and blogs for every single question of client we'll ever ask. Like, come on, dude. Adam's about to go, Wes Watson. It's still one of my favorites. You kidding me?

17 clients? 17 clients? Get out of it. You know how many sessions I was training a week at one point? It was like 55. Bro, I maintain this as a fitness manager. Yeah. I had 17 to 20 clients as a fitness manager.

Run in the show. Come on. Come on, guy. Get your shit together. Yeah. He just made him feel terrible. A little tough love. If you like this show, come find us on Instagram.

We'll see you at Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, maps performance, and Maps Aesthetic,

nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now, plus other valuable free resources at Mind Pumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family.

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