Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2739: When Overtraining Becomes a Superpower

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Starting point is 00:02:15 Once again, Maps, Fitness Products.com, the code Black Friday. You guys, real quick, I just want to mention we got a sale. It's up to 25% off equipment and select apparel on our store right now. be $5 items as well. Sale will be from November 20th through November 30th. Go check it out at Mind Pumpstore.com. Overtraining, it's always bad, right? Maybe not.

Starting point is 00:02:39 There may be some benefits every once in a while to pushing beyond what is necessary to going a little too hard or a too long. By the way, fitness fanatics, relax. We're going to explain it here. I'm not trying to justify your overtraining. But sometimes there may be some benefits, and we're going to talk about those.

Starting point is 00:02:57 in today's episode. Let's go. This reminds me of the conversation we had with our good friend, Andy Galpin. Yeah. A long time ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I remember he articulated this really well. We tend to to kind of beat that drum a lot, right? Because a lot of people that listen. Need to hear it. Adapt and optimize. Yeah, they need to hear it. Um, if you're, if you're, I mean, just in our experience, if you're proactively listening to a fitness podcast, you're probably working out and doing that. Not even though that we have seen. some people that don't. But for the most part, you're into that.

Starting point is 00:03:32 There's a self-selection by. Yeah, right. And a lot of our clients would under, eat and over-trained. And so we tend to that. But I remember when we kind of were having, like, it was not, I guess, a debate, but in conversation around that. And he made the case that, well, you know, there's also some value in actually pushing the body when it's, you know,

Starting point is 00:03:49 overly stressed, all those things, lacklessly. And then he explained why occasionally that can be. But doing that chronically is a terrible idea. Yeah. So the reason why this came up for me was I was thinking about this in relation to competitive endeavors. So oftentimes you'll as a coach or trainer or even just look, even if you just talk to anybody who trains at a high level for sport, if you have any understanding of workout programming and appropriate intensity, oftentimes you'll look at their. their workouts, their practices, that's too much. Why are they doing that?

Starting point is 00:04:33 And not all these coaches are bad. A lot of these coaches are great, and they're doing this to their athletes. What's going on? I think a lot of the value, and we could talk about some of the physiological value too, but I think a lot of the value of doing that is it's really at training the mind.

Starting point is 00:04:51 Mental toughness. And the psychology at the expense of, you know, maybe some extra muscle gains or conditioning. It's grit. It is. I was actually talking with Josh about this a week ago, and we were talking a little bit about this.

Starting point is 00:05:06 I said, you know, pushing the body and the mind beyond what's appropriate or perfect for physical adaptations, I said, when you're in the ring, because he's a fighter. So Josh manages a lot of our social media, and he's a fighter. He was a boxer. He also does kickboxing and other stuff. It's like, when you're in the ring, that fight is not an appropriate training. Like,

Starting point is 00:05:29 you're fighting. And oftentimes what separates the winner from the loser. Their will. Yeah, it's just the dude that is just, they're able to just keep going when everything in their body's telling them not to. Is there value in that kind of training

Starting point is 00:05:47 for the average person? Well, I'll pose this question. Are there ever going to be seasons in your life when things are suboptimal and you've got to kind of push through? things. Yeah, yeah, have kids. That alone, we'll do it to you. Or, you know, there's going to be times of stress with the job. And so there's that mental component where there's that value. And that's

Starting point is 00:06:09 where I think a lot of this is. That's where I would kind of rest. I find these kind of conversations hard these days because people can't deal with nuance. They just cannot like take a step back and like, well, this is contradicting what you previously. espoused and, you know, unfortunately, like, training is a lot of that. Like, it's, it's, it's case by case. And it's individual by individual. And it's really, it's, it's that intention. Like, what are we intentionally focusing on right now that we're trying to strengthen and emboldened? And maybe it's mental discipline. Maybe it's grit. And that looks different. That looks different than optimizing my body to adapt towards, you know, building muscle, for instance, or like, thriving.

Starting point is 00:06:56 and feeling like super energetic and awesome, you know, sometimes you've got to be in the shit and you have to work your way out of it. And that's an important skill to obtain. Listen, it's a spectrum. And at any time, you could fall somewhere on that spectrum. And if you're the type of person who tends to heed the advice that we talk about with under-eating over-training and it's like the slightest bit of a potential cold coming on or not perfect sleep or I did and have a perfect diet, you go, oh, you know, I don't, I don't want to over train. I don't want to, I don't work out so I don't work out. And you, you tend to do that all the time. You're the type of person where it's like, we could probably throw some of these days into your routine more frequently just for the

Starting point is 00:07:39 mental toughness part of that. If you're on the other side of the spectrum where you ignore all signs of that your body is exhausted, underfed, you know, you haven't rested appropriately. You're hammering it way too much. And you lean on that more often than not. Well, then, this advice isn't for you. Like, you're the type of person that needs to learn to listen to their body more, recover more, and is way overdoing it. And that's why you're not seeing your results. So that's why it's nuanced to your point.

Starting point is 00:08:08 And everybody wants to be in a camp of like, this is the way. It's like, no, this isn't the way, nor is this the way. It depends on the type of client that's sitting in front of me. And, you know, a good trainer in a relatively short period of time figures out who that client is, right? Like it didn't take me very long. Good point. To know.

Starting point is 00:08:27 There's the ones that you got to kind of push. Yeah, yeah. I very much so would have a client that would say advice, say something to me. Like, oh, I didn't get very good stuff. That's okay. We're going to get after it anyways, you know, because I know who this client is. And then there's other clients that are like, no, no, I'm fine. I didn't get the best problem.

Starting point is 00:08:44 I'm fine. Let's go. And I'm like, no, we're going to take it easy this time. So as a good coach and trainer can learn that client, understand their habits, where they lean towards, and then correct. the type of behavior, it's not black or white. Yeah, there are oftentimes these clients where I would do it, I would push them so that they could see what they were capable of,

Starting point is 00:09:03 which would change the filter at which they viewed or perceived pain during exercise and challenge. I would say for the fitness fanatics that are listening, like the people who don't miss workouts, it's very consistent, it's part of your life, you're probably going to live in what's considered optimal. for physiological change, strength and energy and mobility and feeling good, 90% of time. Nine out of 10 workouts are going to be what are considered appropriate. 10%, maybe even 5%, are the ones where you overdo it.

Starting point is 00:09:39 And the overdoing it is valuable for the big picture. So what you're doing is you're sacrificing gains, because that's what happens when you're overdue. You're not going to get the gains as quick, right? So you're sacrificing a little bit of gains for the gains. for the gain of testing yourself a bit and seeing where those limits are. Because here's what can happen to me even. Because I'll tend to push it too hard probably too often.

Starting point is 00:10:03 But sometimes what can happen to me is I will leave just this specific example. I'll leave two reps in the tank. In other words, I'll pick a weight that I think I would fail at 10 reps with and I'll do eight. But then I'll go through a short season of training to failure and realize I was actually leaving more like four. And this can happen, for me at least, with certain exercise in particular, like squats. With squats, I'm much more likely to stop when I have five reps in the tank than when I have two because they hurt so bad. And I don't know sometimes.

Starting point is 00:10:36 I don't know until I'll do a couple sets to failure. And this is what it feels like. I'll have so much weight on the bar. I'll go. I'll get to eight. And I'll be like, oh, okay, this is a failure set. I think I can do two more. And I'll do two.

Starting point is 00:10:49 And I'll be like, oh, wait, I have two more. And I'll do two more. I'll be like, wait a minute, I have two more. And then I'll fail. I'll be like, whoa, I had six when I thought I only had two. So there's that value as well. But, you know. You know, isn't it, is that, as you're saying this,

Starting point is 00:11:03 I'm trying to think like how, you know, I'm curious, Justin, your point, because I agree. Squats are unique like that. They're brutal. Well, they're the only ones that I think I misgaged the most. Of course. Like deadlift, it's very obvious if that's going to get pulled up off the ground for more time or not, right?

Starting point is 00:11:22 Like, I could tell the one before. It was just like, that took everything to get that thing off the ground. So deadlifting, I'm like, I know right where the failure's at. Yeah. But there's something about dropping in the hole in a squat and thinking like, oh, I can't get that out.

Starting point is 00:11:34 And then you grind it out. And you're like, oh, I got that out. And like, I don't think I have another one. And then you grind it out and get another one. Yeah, because the feeling on your back, it's sometimes it's crushing. And it really messes with you psychologically. And then you have to go through the full mechanics.

Starting point is 00:11:48 And no, like at the bottom, I'm going to be okay or I'm not going to be okay. It's like kind of a crapshoot, you know? It is squats, right? It's got to be unique to that. There's nothing else. No. There's nothing else.

Starting point is 00:11:59 Because deadlift, you're right. It's like, boom, just get rid of it. Yeah, deadlift for some people are scary, but squats are up there. Upper body exercises, I'm not that scared if I'm going to, you know, and it doesn't feel not even just scared. It's, it's gauging. Yeah, exactly. Like I can easily gauge a bench press, easily gauge an overhead press, easily gauge a deadlift.

Starting point is 00:12:16 Squats feel like you're done before you're done. Squats many times. I'm like, oh, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going. anymore and then if I got somebody with me like no no no you got and they're like oh shit I did who is that bodybuilder in pumping iron there's one scene in pumping iron it's one of the more popular ones with fitness pha where he keeps telling him two more yeah two more what's his name ed corny is that his name dog maybe could look it up and they're doing squats it's this great scene everybody you can find it on youtube and Arnold is working out with a bodybuilder I think his name he was famous for his posing

Starting point is 00:12:43 he had really great posing I think was ed corny he keeps slapping him on the back he's done no no no two more yeah yeah yeah and Eddie's doing squats and And they're going, and it's hard. It is a hard. By the way, this is in the 70s when they did 25 sets of everything. And he's doing squats. This is before they leg pressed or did a lot of leg extensions. And Ed's like, he comes up and he's like, two more, Eddie, two more.

Starting point is 00:13:02 And he does two more? And he's like, no, you got more. And you're like, does he have more in them? I don't know. What's his name? Is it Ed Corny? Ed Corny. What a great scene.

Starting point is 00:13:10 Because at the end of it, Ed Corny, like, ah. In fact, before he does the last rep, you could sell. He's like trying to psych himself up. Then he racks it and he falls on the ground. And then Arnold, like typical, like, you know, workout buddy style just steps over him and adjust the bar so he can do his set, you know. Like his buddy's on the ground. He's like, hey, are you okay, buddy? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:31 You just, let's step over you while I do the set. But, yeah, that's the thing about it's objective that way. Yeah. If you don't include stress testing it to that degree, you don't really know your capability. Like you're not, you don't have a real good, um, accurate gauge of like a, like, like, like, like you're being honest with yourself. Like this is really what I'm capable of producing versus like, you know, speculating like on a chart.

Starting point is 00:13:57 Like here's where I should be. I often will think about this in a different context. When I just talk to my immigrant relatives and how they lived, and anything about how stressed out I get when I take my kids to the grocery store, you know, and I'm like, they're crying or, you know, my daughter doesn't want to sit still. And I'm like, I can't handle this.

Starting point is 00:14:19 And then, you know, my mom used to do this with four kids. And my grandmother took a ship from Italy, which broke down in the middle of the ocean. And all she had was a block of cheese to feed the kids and her. I'm like, how did they sleep and what did they do? And then you look at the data and we're so anxious and stress now. But objectively, life is so much easier. And I don't, I think it has a lot more to do with how we perceive things and maybe the purpose behind things than the actual things that are happening. Now, working out obviously is not that.

Starting point is 00:14:52 Yeah. But it's kind of a controllable that you could, you could test a little bit. And I think that there's a toughness that can be developed through your training that you can even push yourself to test. But I will also say this for people who chronically over-trained. Yeah. Sometimes the challenge that you need to train yourself with, the mental challenge is not that can you push yourself until you kill yourself because that's what you're doing now,

Starting point is 00:15:17 but rather can you lay off? Well, I mean, that's what somebody like you struggles with. That's right. Yeah, it's like it's not hard to get you up in the morning to do your lift, but it's a lot harder for you to go like, oh, I'm just going to take it easy today in this lift because of the relationship that you have with it. I think a lot of people, I mean, you share that openly and honest, right? But I think a lot of people are naive to that or justify it because they're healthy,

Starting point is 00:15:42 they're fit, you know, they look like you, right? And so they go, oh, I'm doing it right. Right. I'm saying, like, I'm not doing it wrong. Right. But again, I think if you look at your whole routine and, you know, 10% of the time is when you challenge yourself, I think that's probably for consistent people, probably the number. And if people were being honest, they probably look more like the reverse where most of the time they're overdoing it. And then 10% of the time, they train appropriately because they're forced to.

Starting point is 00:16:10 Like their body's just like, you need a break. And so then they do that for a little bit until they just come out of the hole. You know, this is why I want to get a whole of that Ethan kid. but I sent you the other day the really big kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's going down the... A lot of fitness people are grabbing him.

Starting point is 00:16:27 Yeah, a lot of people that are like, who else did I just see him with recently who was, you know, you know, they're telling him to like get after it and keep pushing us with that. Kids are already training like seven days a week and taking 20,000 steps and like... Yeah, and he's getting...

Starting point is 00:16:42 And he's using the scale. It's like, I want to get a hold of him so we can... I'm so glad you brought that up at him because the... The temptation for a fitness person, we'll just say fitness person, influencer, expert, whatever, is to look at somebody who struggled with being obese their whole life and to simply think that person just needs to learn how to grind and discipline and beat themselves up more. Yeah, it's not that.

Starting point is 00:17:07 And I see, I understand why there's some truth in that, right? There's some truth in that that there's a discipline involved with not overeating and being active. That's true. but here's why that approach is wrong. What you're doing is you're telling that person to beat themselves up more. And what you fail to realize is that is a person that beats themselves up all the time already, just in a different way. It's a different form of self-hate.

Starting point is 00:17:30 Yeah. So what you're doing is you're taking them from hating yourself like this. Now let's hate yourself like this. And that will not result in a sustainable approach. What you need to do is take that person and say, stop hating yourself. We're going to start to get you to learn how to care for yourself. and then when you come out of that and you go through that and you develop a better relationship, then you can learn how to test yourself and push yourself but from a good place.

Starting point is 00:17:56 Otherwise, what it turns into is more self-hate, which is then, because my fear with that guy, Adam, because I know he's a lot of people reached out to him. Why? Because he went viral. And he's also seems like a great kid. So of course he's going to, you know, he's going to reach out to these really famous popular, you know, fitness personalities that tend to be more on that side. you know, the David Goggins types, right?

Starting point is 00:18:18 My fear is that this kid follows them, continues to keep saying weight loss, develop this fame with now he's lost all this weight, and then he gets stuck in this, oh my God, what do I do? How do I let, you know, I'm going to let people down. Well, I've been watching the journey the whole time. I've been meaning to reach back out to him.

Starting point is 00:18:37 But I also, I'm not the type of person to be like, hey, bro, you're doing it wrong. Let's do it this way. Like I sent him over episodes of ours to start listening to in hopes that he would start to listen to the podcast and maybe start to hear some of the information versus me trying to tell him what to do. Like, that's just not,

Starting point is 00:18:53 it's not my style to do that. But I know he's in the burn phase. Like, he's in this phase of eating less, got to move more, got to train more to keep seeing that scale go down. And like, we keep getting on the scale and measuring that as a victory or not every week. And it's like, it's not how I would train him.

Starting point is 00:19:11 It's not how I train him at all. A scale would not even be anything we pay attention to right now. It's like, and I'd want his body fed so he could get strong and build muscle. But in the caloric deficit he's running in and the activity level he's at, like, he's not going to build muscle. Yeah. He's just, he's burning body fat because he's disciplining himself unbelievably to move like crazy. But that is not the long-term strategy to take off 200-something pounds and keep it off forever.

Starting point is 00:19:36 And not keep it off. Yeah, yeah. And so, and again, and then, you know, leaning on these fitness people that have a more militant mind, like in like, and like, That's not what that guy needs. It's not a good fit. That's not the path. The path to being fit and healthy for your life is not this strenuous seven days a week of thinking about food and exercise. That is not the path to health.

Starting point is 00:19:59 It's not thinking about every meal you have to eat and training every single day and stepping 15,000, 20,000 steps every day to be healthy. No, it's unrealistic. You know what it does too to that person? Is then that person inevitably will be like, is that, is it? this what it takes? Yeah. Is this what it's like to be obsessed with this stuff all the time? And then they'll see somebody who's not that way. And then what it sometimes will happen is they'll turn inward in shame. I got the worst genetics ever. Like that person, they only have to work out a few days a week. They seem to be eating. Like, what's wrong with me? Why do I got to

Starting point is 00:20:36 just eat 1,500 calories a day and just beat the crap out of myself? That's definitely not the approach. One way that I stretched myself years ago that's coming to my mind that was very instrumental for me. And I say for me because it was unique to someone who never went three hours without eating. So for years and years and years, probably I would say from the age of maybe 17, every two hours I would eat every two hours. And if it wasn't a meal, it was a protein bar. to the point where I took stuff with me obsessively. I mean, when I had my studio when I was training people, I'd have my food with me and then, you know,

Starting point is 00:21:21 my client would come in to warm up. I'd go on the back and I'd eat real quick whether I was hungry or not. And it was something that stretched me was when I first fasted. And it wasn't a fitness thing. I think it's a terrible way to we've talked about this. There's lots of episodes if you want to hear it or take on fasting for fat loss. But for me, it was groundbreaking because it. it broke the chains that eating every other hour had on me.

Starting point is 00:21:46 Social constraints. Like I fasted for a day and then I was like, oh, I could. I had the same experience. I could do this. You did too. Yeah. It was pretty amazing. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:56 It's liberate. And I think it, just in the back of your mind, you get this bit of anxiety and panic because you're not eating or you're not, it just feels like you're shrinking or something. Psychologically, you're just like, this can't be. good. And then you just realize like nothing, nothing's happening. Like, you're going to be just fine. The next day you eat and everything is normal. So it's like, yeah, there's, you just have to get through the panic of it. Yeah. I want to make the point, though, because since you transitioned to that point after talking about the really overweight kid, like, that's an horrible thing for him to hear

Starting point is 00:22:32 of course. Of course. But the flip is, you know, guys that were orthorexic and were focused on every calorie and trying to eat as you. I used to weigh myself after every meal, carried a bag around. I used to wait, set alarms at 2 o'clock in the morning to pound a shake and go back to bed. You know how lucky we are? We don't want to lose size. Do you know how hard we would have spiraled if we were roommates? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:22:56 We would have got jacked. Yeah, bro. And die and death. No, no, no. I, uh, yeah. And so, um, yeah, I was so insecure about not having enough, uh, that if I didn't eat, And I mean, imagine being a full-time trainer. You're working six, seven days a week, 10 clients a day.

Starting point is 00:23:15 You're moving. I mean, I would on a bad day and move 15,000 steps. And you're lifting weights. Yeah. So, like, you know, I had to have 4,000 plus calories a day to maintain that. Metabolism, much less try and build on that was just like it was so obsessive. Yeah, super obsessive. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:34 Super, super obsessive. So yesterday, so you guys know what happened yesterday. And I'll give you a little update. to the end of the day. So my daughter's actual birthday was yesterday. So now I can share the story. I don't want to share it first because I want to make sure I had a good ending. But she just turned 16.

Starting point is 00:23:51 And she's a very disciplined, hardworking girl, love her to death. And for her birthday, so she's turning 16, she needs to get a car anyway. And she wants a car. So I've been kind of looking for a car. So we decided for her birthday and Christmas, it's both, that I'd get her a new car. And so she had this double gift. I didn't know that. Well, yeah, I'm not going to, you know, I got to make it somehow like, come on, dude.

Starting point is 00:24:16 Like kids are. I mean, you say that, but I actually, I'm really proud of you. You didn't make a big deal about it. You didn't say anything like it. But, you know, you could have, a lot of parents, especially parents that love their kids that are in your situation would have bought something else. Like, it was nice, dude. She got a nice car. It is.

Starting point is 00:24:38 It is nice. but it's not, it's like, it's... Oh, I know, some parents get their kids, ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, it's just crazy. Brand new Tesla or something. Yeah, crazy, crazy. I mean, it's not even a brand new car. No.

Starting point is 00:24:48 Yeah, no, no, no. I got her a 20-21 Rangler, which is, I mean, that's a 16-year-old kid, you know, girl. Yeah, no, I agree. I think that's a great idea, but, you know, but I just think that I think that's so cool. And the fact that you also made it a double present, so you don't even get Christmas present to your present for a person. Well, you know, I'm like, you know, you talk about this time out. I'm like where you're like, oh, my kid's going to have so much.

Starting point is 00:25:09 How do I, you know, present? Yeah, yeah. You know, adversity. And I can also be a little bit like, this was, especially with my older kids because, you know, when I got divorced from their mom, a little bit of like trying to always keep them happy and being afraid to, you know, pull back. And I'm also had that tendency. And you guys know me, I'm a caretaker at heart.

Starting point is 00:25:28 So, like, one time you and I traveled and you had your Achilles issue and I'm like bringing you things. Yeah, yeah. It's my nature. Yeah. which can back, which can not be great. That's the point why I'm giving you kudos on this, because I do know that about your relationship with you're too older.

Starting point is 00:25:43 And so there's this tendency to want to do more, right? To, you know, to impress them or make them happy or make up for lost time or whatever the thing is. So for you to be able to keep that at bay while do that, I think is, you know, kudos to you to be able to do that. Well, I appreciate it. So anyway, she wakes up and she expected, is the part that made me mad. I didn't tell her she's getting this, but we talked about it. Like, this is the car you want. Let me think about it. So I didn't really tell her.

Starting point is 00:26:14 But she wakes up in the morning. She's at her mom's house. So this is the week she's with her mom. And she wakes and it's her birthday. So I call to say happy birthday. And she's in the car with my ex-wife. She's taking her to school. And she's acting like, and I just call him to say happy birthday. She's acting kind of like, moody. You know? So I'm like, what's going on? And so I'm on speakerphone. And And her mom's like, she's, and she knows we got out of the car, right? She's, but we're not telling her yet. She's like, oh, she's, you know, she's upset that she didn't get a car. And I'm like, excuse me?

Starting point is 00:26:45 So immediately in my mind, I'm like, spoiled, you know? How dare you wake up, you know, upset. You didn't get a car. You know what I mean? This one's thinking of my head. Yeah, yeah. And I'm also thinking like, I've ruined this kid. So I'm on the phone with her.

Starting point is 00:27:00 I'm on the phone with her and she's acting kind of moody after I called to say happy birthday. because of that. And so I just lay into her, which was a mistake. So I just black, to hammer her over the phone. And I'm like, you better change your,

Starting point is 00:27:15 you know, what did I say to her? You better have a heart posture change because later we're going to have dinner for her birthday, which was when I was going to give her gift. So like, you better change her attitude and your heart posture. You're going to be so embarrassed.

Starting point is 00:27:25 I promise you're going to regret it if you don't. I'm like laying in her. So then I hang up, right? And she's at school and she's crying now at school. So I'm getting messages from my ex-wife. She wants me to pick her up.

Starting point is 00:27:35 up, she's crying. So I'm like, oh my God, dude, I got it. I was a little too harsh, but part of me is kind of like, all right, you know. Can you tell you always what you wanted to do? Well, my instinct, I had this instinct that this very angry instinct in me was to go. I wasn't going to do this, okay? But I was that. It crossed your mind.

Starting point is 00:27:53 Bro, I was mad, dude. I was going to film myself in front of her car. Like, this is your present and then smash the windows. And be like, now you're going to have to fix the windows out of your own pocket. I'm so glad I didn't do something crazy. Everybody thinks I'm a crazy dad. I'm not like, but in my, in my heart, the anger was like, this would be like, this will teacher.

Starting point is 00:28:18 This is the Sicilian. This is one of the Sicilian side. And I was texting, I was texting my wife how mad I was. And she was really doing a good job bringing me down. She's like, look, she's 16. She's a kid. They're naturally, you know, this way. She had an expectation.

Starting point is 00:28:30 She's just disappointed. This happened to me once when I was a kid. Yeah, yeah. You know, my wife at one, you know, when she was. She was 16. She wanted her room to be redone. And she was telling the story at dinner. And she was so mad about it and upset,

Starting point is 00:28:41 not realizing that at that moment, her mom was still was redoing her bedroom. Yeah. And so anyway, so I'm like, I'm calm, coming down, coming down.

Starting point is 00:28:49 So I'm like, we'll see what happens. And anyway, of course, before we take her dinner, we present her with her gift. And I put a bow in the car. And she comes out.

Starting point is 00:28:56 And she's like, I'm so embarrassed. When we get in the car, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's want to say it for everybody. I acted like a brat,

Starting point is 00:29:03 but I'm really sorry. I'm so embarrassed and so I'm like all right I mean that's all you want right there because I do I think And I'm like to tell her like you did act like a breath You totally acted like a breath But it's okay I forget you know I do feel like it's built in Tina

Starting point is 00:29:18 I could think of a story too Even myself you know what I'm saying like Of like you you thought something I'm glad you told me that You did tell me that that helped me too Adam Because you were not spoiled No right and yet So when I heard it from you

Starting point is 00:29:30 Then I was like okay yeah that's right When you're 16 the world revolves around. You just say you do it. You get you in your head, especially if you guys let on that there's even a possibility. So I remember one year,

Starting point is 00:29:41 it was a Sega Genesis that my, and we don't have a lot of money. But yet there was like this expectation that I was actually going to get that. And I was like so angry in the morning like when I got up and it wasn't there. And eventually my parents had,

Starting point is 00:29:54 I got it later on at night. And so, but I remember I was like really upset. Because your expectation. Yeah, exactly. And so and you're 16 or whatever, 14 or whatever the hell. I was, you know, I was a teenager, close to her age.

Starting point is 00:30:06 And I, you know, just, you just, your brain isn't all the way there. You know what I'm saying? And so, it's hard to remember what it's like to be that age. You are self-centered. That's just the natural developmental part. There's things I could definitely do, though, that'll, that'll give her more gratitude. I mean, I was, in fact, I was, I was, I was, I think I told my, my wife, I was like, maybe instead of sending her to college, I'll have her go to a third world country for a year.

Starting point is 00:30:33 and work there and then go to call. This is when I was angry. You're thinking of all these things. She should go live in the slums for a year, just so she knows, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But, you know, Arthur Brooks gave me some of the best advice when we were talking.

Starting point is 00:30:50 I mean, I openly talk about my greatest fear, right, is my son growing up in a different life, right? And so, and I remember Joe DeSena when we hung out with him, and, you know, he's big on, you know, manufacturing adversity. He's hardcore about it. Yeah, and so I took a lot of that. Like, yeah, I agree. Like, I got to, and so my wheels are always turning.

Starting point is 00:31:12 Like, how do I make this fucking harder on him? You know, like, this is too easy. How do we make this hard? Like, all the time. And it was Arthur Brooks who kind of settled me, settled me in on that a little bit and just said, life is hard at him. Life will present plenty of adversity and challenge.

Starting point is 00:31:26 That's true. And because you're a father that cares so much about that and that you're aware of that as you are. you'll know how you'll handle that you're like 90% of the way that yeah right like don't worry it's gonna come yeah he's gonna have a heart it may not be because he can't afford a pair of sneakers or maybe some things that you could relate to but life will hand him adversity and when it does you'll be a good father they'll be like that kind of settled me down a little bit and she did apologize before she saw her car too oh see that's later in the day she said i'm sorry and then when when we were in the car alone when we're sitting there

Starting point is 00:32:00 she's looking at it. I'm like, hey, so what was it like at school? She's like, oh, you know how it is? She's like, the waterworks start coming and I can't stop it. And then people are watching me, which makes it even harder. And I'm like, did you tell anybody? She's like, I'm not going to tell everybody. I'm crying because I didn't get a car.

Starting point is 00:32:15 So I'm like, she's aware. Yes. That sounds ridiculous. Yeah. But, you know, your emotions get running and you can't stop the whole thing. But man, it's just, and it made me think, it's just, yeah. And I look, I know my dad had these situation with me. because of the way he grew up.

Starting point is 00:32:31 He used to tell me stories all the time. I thought he lied, but my dad's stories are crazy. His are extreme, bro. Yeah, his are so crazy that you're like, you had a full meal tonight. How could you complain? They're not even just bringing anything up. My dad used to, my toes are not sticking out your shoes.

Starting point is 00:32:45 How could you complain? I have a blanket. He used to tell me. I'd live in the life of luxury. Bro, he told me one time. I didn't believe him. He's like, you know what toys I had when I was a kid? I had one tire and I had a stick.

Starting point is 00:32:58 tire in a stick how did you compete with that and then I remember I went to Sicily and him and his brothers were reminiscing and when they were kids remember the tire we had oh my God it was so fun

Starting point is 00:33:07 I'm like you actually had a tire in a stick they're like yeah we used to push it along the road that's what we used to play with all the time that was our toy oh my god dude

Starting point is 00:33:15 when I hear stuff like that though I also wonder like how much of like that creativity side and stuff like that we have robbed generations because I see so so much so much value in the ability

Starting point is 00:33:28 you didn't do that. I felt bad. I had a buddy who was talking to me over my birthday weekend, and it was the first time he had met Max. He's like, oh my God, he's so cool, this and that. He's so chill. I'm like, yeah, I know that's what everybody says when I meet him. I say he's super great kid, whatever, right? He's like, hey, man, have you got him really into video games yet? And I'm like, uh, yeah, I'm trying to avoid all that stuff. And he kind of looked at me like sideways. Just yeah, man, just the, just what that does to their brain at such young age. I'm not saying I'm going to be a dad who says he can't play them, but I'm going to delay that as long as I can.

Starting point is 00:33:59 Yeah. Yeah. You know, and right now, like, seeing him in the living room come up with his own games and with his blocks and, and, like, make believe and stuff like that, I'm going to ride that wave as long as I possibly can. And so far, not having an iPad, not having video games around him, it's not, it's non-existent. In his world, it isn't even there and doesn't, you know, he's missing out on it. I'm sure one day he'll be a 12-year-old and one of his friends will, and then sure, he'll

Starting point is 00:34:27 play and stuff. But I'm going to, I'm going to delay that and replace that with Uno cards and trouble and sorry and playing interactive games as long as I possibly can. I felt bad because I was just being honest with him about my son, but I felt like I was also insulting somebody about how they're raising. So it's a hard dynamic to try and, you know, bring that up because he was like excited to tell me to like get my kid playing video games. And I'm like, yeah. That's terrible for kids. Yeah, I know. I didn't do that. You were saying, like, I didn't know, like, a real soft, like, way around it. You know, but...

Starting point is 00:34:59 You know, I did. I was totally not that parent either. I was, like, nicely, like, saying, like, yeah, you know, I've just kind of chose to do this. And then I said, I think that has a lot to do with what you see, how, his personality, why he's so calm, he's loving, he's interactive. He looks you in the eye when you talk to him as a stranger. Like, so, yeah, those games, man, they can just, they could really suck those kids in, so... Totally, totally. I got to talk about Vicky.

Starting point is 00:35:25 So she does our hair every Monday. So we look decent on the podcast. By the way, when I look back at old podcast, before we used to have Vicky. Yeah. Wow, dude. I was close. We were like were wolves.

Starting point is 00:35:37 Post Vicky and the chairs. Oh, God. Oh. That's so awkward. How could you tell me? People must have thought we were tiny. Well, you know, big-ass chairs. People did.

Starting point is 00:35:47 Yeah. That's one of the biggest things we always get when people were like, God damn, you guys are all hell of big. It's like, well, it's because we were in those fucking giant chairs. With our arms late. I take zero responsibility. You guys know I don't know anything about style. Well, remember.

Starting point is 00:36:02 I had to regulate and get these ones. So remember when that was my buddy who owned that furniture store that was right underneath, right underneath the original studio. And when we first, you know, we stapled all the sound stuff because we all said, we'll never record this. Yeah. We all. Nobody wants to see us. Yeah, we were like, this is so stupid. Who would ever watch us?

Starting point is 00:36:22 I know. Who thought? Like, you would watch podcast? Like we just didn't think that way. And so everything was more for comfort or sound. And so the big comfy couches, Doug, I remember Doug was like, oh, yeah, those will absorb a lot of sound. That's right.

Starting point is 00:36:36 That's right. Anyway, so I was talking to Vicki and she was talking about how she loves her eight. So we hooked her up with an eight sleep. Yeah. And she's been using it. And she sets that thing to 55 or something like that. That's what mine always. She freezes her little butt off in there.

Starting point is 00:36:52 Arctic lady. Yeah, because she was getting sweaty, Doug. She was getting sweaty. at night and she's like, I don't know if it's paramedopause or whatever. Paramedopausal stuff. Yeah. And, uh, but she's like, man, I freeze that thing and I just sleep. Oh, by the way, are they having a category though?

Starting point is 00:37:04 Are they black Friday? Are they black Friday sale too, do they have? I think everybody. Yeah, they have a massive sale. Everybody's got a sick massive sale. Um, let me tell you what it is. They're doubling the typical offer. Oh, wow.

Starting point is 00:37:15 Which is up to $700 off. Oh, wow. Oh, my God. That's a huge saving. Yeah, yet another cool thing they've, uh, rolled out is, um, financing options. So you don't have to pay for it all at once. What's the history? We might have looked this up a long time ago.

Starting point is 00:37:31 Because this is airing on Black Friday. Yeah, today is Black Friday. What's the history of Black Friday? Would you mind looking that up? When did that start? I know this. I know this. I know this.

Starting point is 00:37:41 I know this. I know this. I know I've read something on. Because people preparing for Christmas, you know, and like, it must have been just a conscious effort. Everybody would shop right after. Like, who was the first? one to do it.

Starting point is 00:37:55 No, I mean, I don't know which store quickly. It became the most popular shopping day after. So everybody realized. Everybody after Thanksgiving would go shopping and then I think it turned into things. Most of them was a big department stores. Well, interestingly, interestingly, the term came from the Philadelphia police in the 1950s to describe the chaos of post- Thanksgiving shoppers. And second, the retail explanation that the day marks when stores go from being in the red at a loss to in the black.

Starting point is 00:38:21 Oh, that's why it's black friday. Yeah, that's very interesting. interesting. Wow. You're really read it all years. You know what else has crazy history to it that has a name?

Starting point is 00:38:30 Bluetooth. Oh, yeah. I always wondered about that. Oh, dude. That's a pirate, no, it's a pirate, no, it's a pirate. It's a Viking. It's a Viking god.

Starting point is 00:38:39 It's a Viking leader who brought two opposing like, militaries. Yeah, militaries. Together. And so, and Bluetooth came when Dell

Starting point is 00:38:53 and HP and they were all trying to do their own Bluetooth. And the company came, and the guy, H.B., is Howard, something, I think is his name, who invented it. Bjornson. Okay, so the Bluetooth, the Bluetooth logo, he was the one that knew the story of this Viking, and it's like a Viking, whatever, writing, H and B mixed together for his name. Wow.

Starting point is 00:39:22 Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah, and that's the reason why, because it brought these two, like, so companies that were rivaling each other towards Bluetooth technology. Let's work together. Yeah. King Harold Bluetooth, the 10th century Danish king who united Scandinavia. He had a dead tooth also. Well, that's actually, so they say the way he got Bluetooth is either he had a dead tooth that made his mouth look blue or another, there's another theory.

Starting point is 00:39:50 There's like two different theories on why was he called Bluetooth, but one of them. was that he had a dead tooth in his mouth. You ever noticed someone like that? They had one of those as a kid. You don't see those so often anymore. But there was a kid. There was always that one kid with the tooth. My mom, my mom had one.

Starting point is 00:40:03 Oh, God. For the longest time. Yeah, for the longest time. It wasn't until, I don't know, maybe a decade or so ago. Oh, man. Yeah, yeah. She's got to pull out. Finally got to put a, put a, which McCallie.

Starting point is 00:40:13 You know, back to Black Friday, Black Friday's still a shopping frenzy. But since the internet and online shopping became a thing, it's not like it used to be. First of all, if you go to the mall on Black Friday, it's still crazy. But do you guys remember when we were teenagers what it was like to go to the mall on Black Friday? I would have avoided it like the play. But there were crowds outside of the door.

Starting point is 00:40:38 It was a tradition that if you drove by right after Thanksgiving, you would see people camping out in tents. The night of Thanksgiving, you would be camping out for the next day. Last time I remember being a part of that was when the we came out. And I was like, because my birthday's in January as well. And so like this is when I was dating Courtney. And it was funny because like we were in line. Like everybody was already camped out already at Target.

Starting point is 00:41:04 And it was like all the way outside. And I was like, oh, this is ridiculous. We're not going to do this. She's like, no. Like she's like on a mission to get me a frigging weed. And so like I waved there for a while. And then like she actually like camped out and like made it all night. She spent, she actually stayed there all night.

Starting point is 00:41:21 That's why I married her. Yeah, that's it. That was like, I'm in. I'm in. Yeah. I remember them to do that for me. I remember that we. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:28 I had all the trainers over. That was before you guys married, right? Yeah. That's why he married her right there. That's like my story of coming home and Katrina watching football. I was like, that's it. I'm married this girl. Wow.

Starting point is 00:41:39 She's like that determined, you know, to get me the thing. She's the one. Wow. I have done that for me before. I have a story of Jessica, but I can't share on a podcast. But I knew. That's it right there, maybe. It was that one maneuver

Starting point is 00:41:52 She's gonna be so mad But I used to hate The holidays because of that This is before I became a Christian Before I knew the value of it I used to hate it Because it's like this stupid It's like mass consumerism

Starting point is 00:42:07 It was just I used to hate it I'd go to the store Because I forget And I'd go to the store to get something Oh that's the worst And I want to punch everyone Because people are just racing and Couldn't park anywhere

Starting point is 00:42:16 It's the parking lots really That was I mean honestly Honestly from here on out It's it's Naur I mean, it gets, I mean, once Black Friday starts all the way till Christmas, Christmas. I have, to my uncle used to shop on Christmas Eve every year. Yeah, that was like, yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:30 That's a guy thing, by the year. That's dudes. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Limited options. I mean, with everything that you can do online now, we've, Katrina and I have been pretty consistent now. There's been a couple of years we've missed.

Starting point is 00:42:43 We're almost done with our Christmas shopping. Yeah, we normally do a really good job of getting lists early. And then we just, Amazon for a week looks crazy at our house. all of them coming in. Yep. And then it's like the best feeling ever to go rolling into December and like Christmas shopping is done, dude.

Starting point is 00:42:57 Like, oh. Yeah. Takes a lot of stress off the holidays. A lot. A lot. Anyway. But hey, you know,

Starting point is 00:43:02 you brought up AIDS sleep. I've been, but I was actually, I didn't know it was up today and I didn't know you're going to bring up Vicky, but everything that I'm going through, one of the things that still hasn't recovered is my thermostat, dude.

Starting point is 00:43:13 So my poor aid sleep can't figure me out right now. Yeah. Oh, I was like, sweating, that I'm freezing. And it's like, oh,

Starting point is 00:43:20 Oh, yeah. It's like up and down all over the place. I actually shut it off one night because I'm like, I don't want to screw this thing up. It was like perfect for my body for the longest time. But my thermostat, I don't know how long that's going to take. But that's, uh. Well, you said last night you had a first night, bro.

Starting point is 00:43:35 First, two weeks. First night, yeah. Praise God, bro. It took, yeah. It was like. So I'm going to give you more. I'm just going to love on you more, dude, on this podcast. I can, I could not tell when you, I know because you talk about it,

Starting point is 00:43:47 but you can't, you've come to work and you've been great. You're not acting like somebody that I would look at and be like, this guy is not getting sleep. He's going through it. You're coming in here doing your best. And I can't tell, bro. Great job. I think it's a testament of doing what we do. You know, I'm pretty lucky that, you know, I've got partners like I got.

Starting point is 00:44:08 I've got a team like I have. We get to come and do this. Like, this is so, I think I, you know, the whole thing also put me in a place of gratitude, too. You know, so I think that was. That's wonderful. So I think that helped. and part of my gratitude is that this is what I have get to do for a living, you know, like how blessed am I?

Starting point is 00:44:29 And so, yeah, it was, it was pretty easy to, to muster up the energy to be here. Towards the end of the day, I mean, well, or midday, I get tired. Sure. Yeah, and like the headaches and the temperature stuff and all that like that. So that part of the hard. But, I mean, you know, as far as getting up to be here, like, no, man, I love, I love doing this. You can tell, dude. Anyway, speaking of substances, so last night we're at the birthday dinner.

Starting point is 00:44:56 And my daughter has figured out that if she wants, she can tell my, she can tell on me to my mom. Because Italian moms, they just don't get out of that stage. They just don't. So I use nicotine lozenges here and there. And my daughter saw me use. She's like, what is that? This was a while ago. And I'm like, oh, it's nicotine.

Starting point is 00:45:17 What? You know, because nicotine is associated with cigarettes. I'm like, it's not really bad for you. She's, yeah, but is it good? But is it good for you, dad? I'm like, yeah, it's a little addictive or whatever. So I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna tell Nonna. Like, you're gonna tell my mom on me.

Starting point is 00:45:29 You know, I'm a grown man? And then I'm like, please don't tell her. Well, she did. She did. And so last night, we're at the birthday dinner and she brings it up again. And so then my mom is doing the whole, I'm getting text from her this morning. You know, she's sending me articles. She's sending you articles.

Starting point is 00:45:47 She's sending you articles. And she's saying, and she's saying, I got to read to you some of this. It's just, this is just, oh, the apple doesn't fall from the tree. It's high and moms are the best,

Starting point is 00:45:55 dude. I mean, I love, I love my mom so much. But she's like, she sends me articles of, uh, you know,

Starting point is 00:46:03 like does nicotine change your brain? Yes, nicotine significantly changes your brain by altering its reward system, which leads to addictive, uh, behavior. I'm like, yeah,

Starting point is 00:46:11 mom, it's addictive. She's like, honey, you just, you tend to sway towards obsessions and crutches. And I'm like, yeah,

Starting point is 00:46:18 I know. I know that mom. I'm open about it. Yeah. And then she said, and I'm having a phone with my mom. And she sends me a text.

Starting point is 00:46:27 She's like, you know, caffeine's probably healthier. I'm like, well, I use that too. Mom, I stack them together.

Starting point is 00:46:32 And then she sends me this text. She goes, you know what? I'm just going to let go and let God. And then I replied and said, mom,

Starting point is 00:46:39 telling me you're doing that is not doing that. But now I got to get it from my mom. Come on. Oh, man. We were in the car. I was driving my parents home.

Starting point is 00:46:49 parents home last night from dinner and my mom's in the back and she's doing this right and my dad's just like oh my god so then he's like can we he goes can we change the subject and he says goes off into some some other subject my mom's like yeah if you don't want to be a father talking my dad like that oh you don't want to parent him right now my dad's like he's a grown ass man he's he's got kids he's in 40s when you stop he's like I'm always going to be your mom I'm always going to love you oh my god it's so good I 100 percent She will bother me about this until I stop. God.

Starting point is 00:47:22 Got a love for that. Oh, yeah. I got a shout out another one of our partners, you know, going through this whole process. I told you guys that the Christmas mix blend has been the morning thing every day. And then I've been on double elementees every day, too. Oh, good. Yeah, yeah. So that's been like a consistent.

Starting point is 00:47:41 What are you noticing that that's helping with? Well, I mean, of course, I went down the rabbit hole of, like, you know, all the things to do for withdrawal and what I need. And staying hydrated and potassium are really big to getting everything. Oh. Yeah, yeah, back, right? So I've been hardcore on those, and it makes a huge difference. They're grapefruit flavor. That's my favorite.

Starting point is 00:48:02 It's the best one. Yeah. I didn't think I would like that. I'm not a grapefruit person. I never would start that way for me. It goes good with the- I think everybody ends up in the great fruit. It's the best one.

Starting point is 00:48:14 Yeah. Second is watermelon. The grapefruit is... I like the black cherry. The watermelon and the black cherry, I play. out early because I think those are the like good ones to introduce you to. They have like a sweeter, good flavor. But I like the more tardy, tardy.

Starting point is 00:48:29 Like grapefruit and lemon or the lime one. And then now they have the orange one I really like. Like, no, it's. Yeah, my dad, I got my dad using it because he likes to use the sauna. And he was telling me, this was a few weeks ago, he's like, you know, sometimes if I go in the sauna too long, then I feel tired the rest of the day. And so I said, you need more water. He's like, I'm drinking water.

Starting point is 00:48:49 I said, you need sodium. So I gave him the element. I said, drink one of these before you go in and then drink something like later in there. He's like, that was magic. So yeah, that's why he felt terrible. You needed this sodium. You guys know they're in targets and stuff now too, right?

Starting point is 00:49:01 Yeah. So we were talking to them, right? Because this is our year, this time of year, we renew all our contracts for next year, right? So with our partners. And we're investors in their company too. Yeah, yeah. And one of the things they're,

Starting point is 00:49:11 one of their frustrations they're expressing to Katrina was just like, they had to hire, how weird is this? They had to hire an outside company to stock Target because Target employees weren't keeping the shelves. They were selling out so fast? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:25 Oh, wow. So they actually had to hire a third party company. Interesting. Normally when you have a negotiation with Walmart target companies like that, like that's part of the negotiation. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:33 Yeah. You know, hey, we supply you. You keep them on the shelf. These are the cans that they're selling? Yeah. Yeah. And they were selling out so fast that their representatives

Starting point is 00:49:41 were going around. They were like, they're not keeping on the shelf. You know what? There's another side to this that just occurred to me, and I already see it in my own house that makes element so brilliant.

Starting point is 00:49:51 So, yes, it's got this electrolytes. It's got enough sodium. Most electrolyte powders don't have enough sodium to really make a big difference, especially for an athlete. But there's another part here, which is that it's palatable. There's no artificial sweeteners or sugar,

Starting point is 00:50:04 but they've done such a good job of making it taste good that it encourages people to drink more water. Yeah. And it just occurred to me how many times I had challenges with clients to drink more water and the reply I would get from them is it's boring. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:18 And I remember as a trainer, it's like boring. It's water. Yeah. And then so that, but something like this, because it tastes good, encourages you to drink more. Yeah. So you've got the dual benefit of the electrolytes plus. That's a common thing, a lot more common than you'd think. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:33 And I was in, like, the Midwest, it was like, like, nobody drank water. It was all sodas. Like, it was soda for this. It was like a mineral water with something in it. Like, everything had something in it. It wasn't just pure water. and I always thought that was weird but like I think a lot of people grow up like that

Starting point is 00:50:50 So to have an option that's a little more healthier Well yeah if you grow up on like drinking soda pop and grape juice Water is a hard habit to break No it's no I had a lot of clients that were like that That had a hard time just drinking water just it doesn't taste good I know the first time I heard it it was blew my mind But it was so common that I was like a It was like a training focus

Starting point is 00:51:10 Half the time was yeah you gotta drink boring water dude Yeah I had to I wanted to ring out because my, I don't have a lot of wins all the time and like I got a win, uh, recently with Everett. And, uh, it was mainly because, okay, so he, we, we, I've been putting him into a lot of different sports and a lot of different physical outlets because I know, basketball, lacrosse, cross, gymnastics, gymnastics, he's done tons of stuff. And like, you know, it hasn't been smooth all the time. Like, it's been like, we've got rough. patches where he felt like I was like being very

Starting point is 00:51:49 authoritative and like, you know, militant about like my hard lines with it because it's like, you know, I value it just as much as education. Like I really feel like it's, it's that important in conjunction with what he's doing at school. And he just, I just want to relax. And, you know, his view of relaxing is like, I love it when he's playing video games.

Starting point is 00:52:10 I love it when you hear your kids voices. Dad, I want to relax. Why are you always like coming up? And tell him you get outside and, like, you know, deal with this physical activity. I'm tired, you know. It's like, no, you're not. You're not even close to being tired. Like, you have no idea.

Starting point is 00:52:27 But anyway, we get back and forth and, you know, and I try to, like, step out. And I'm like, okay, like, I understand you're doing a lot. But it's good for you. Like, it's good for your mental state. It's good for your mood. It's good for your interactions with people. It's good for you. like being on top of your school and your studies like it's that like helpful like you don't

Starting point is 00:52:51 real like you don't see it and like he's just oh no like you i just need to relax and like you're you're too much dad and like you know always like fight me on it and um it it was this was after like basketball and he's been really working hard to get some playing time because like he's learning you you start a new sport you have to start from the bottom up and like he did not he doesn't have a natural like gift of like oh i'm awesome at this sport and you know like it's as easy like it's completely hard and he is struggle and like i've had to like we've had to really work at it and he's doing well now but just like he got home and he's like he's tired and he's just like you know reflecting and he was to me and court and he's

Starting point is 00:53:35 like you know i just feel like i'm just a better person uh you know doing sports and you know i just feel like i'm yeah more balanced and like all this stuff and i'm just sitting there and i'm just sitting there and just like, oh, really? That's so interesting. You know, I'm like, I totally agree. And it's like, just funny because like it's just, just dawned on him. Yeah, just dawned on him.

Starting point is 00:53:56 That's awesome though that he's getting it. I mean, he's still hell of young. So for him to start piecing that together. Dude, that's a huge win when you get your teenage kid to be like, right. You were right. Yeah. It was. Oh, right.

Starting point is 00:54:06 Yeah. Yeah, they don't want to say that. You know, even if they feel it. You were, you were killing me earlier. We were off air and I was telling you about the story. Off air, I was telling him about how my mom. was getting on me and my daughter was getting me with the nicotine laws and Justin was talking about when you were when you were smoking cigars at one point and you're oh bro I went through a kick

Starting point is 00:54:24 because this is so funny dude oh of COVID because like um you know I was everybody stressed out and like you with the other way and smoke cigarettes I'm just like yeah cigars yeah I went outside on the deck and I'm just like I just need a moment you know and I sort I kind of went through a spell of like I don't know, maybe a couple times a week, like I would be outside and I'd smoke a cigar. Like, like, Ethan would be looking at me through the window and just be like, shaking his head and, like, really disappointed in me. And then, like, walked outside.

Starting point is 00:54:55 He's like, dad, I think we should talk. I don't think this is good for you. Like, we would just, I'm like, ah, bud, I know it's, you know, it just helps calm me down. Like, I'm just kind of, you know, I'm like, go jump on the trampoline. You know, leave dad alone. I don't just sell to smoke a cigar. He said,

Starting point is 00:55:12 Adam said, I mean, Justin said he went up to him, and he's like, I'm kind of worried about you. Yeah, yeah. He was like really worried,

Starting point is 00:55:19 like concerned about me. I'm like, you don't have to be, bud. Like, I got a handle on this. I'm like, I don't,

Starting point is 00:55:23 but I mean, I ended up stopping doing it because he really was like, yeah, he was like concerned. I know my parents feel like when I go in their house and throw food away and stuff.

Starting point is 00:55:33 It's so good. It's so good. It was funny. Brain. fm plays sounds and music that have been engineered to induce states of mind, by the way, FMRI studies show this actually works.

Starting point is 00:55:47 In other words, you listen to focus, your brain becomes more focused. Do you listen to meditate? Your brain meditates. You listen to sleep. Go to sleep. Stay asleep. It works. It's crazy.

Starting point is 00:55:58 Don't believe me. Try it for a month for free. Go to brain. fm forward slash mind pump. Back to the show. Our first caller is Emily from Florida. Hi, Emily. How you doing, Emily?

Starting point is 00:56:09 Hello. Hi, guys. How are you? Good. How are you? How can we help you? Good. I'm really excited to be here. So I will read my message. Let's see here. Okay. Hi, Mind Punk Fitness. I'm a big fan of the podcast and I absolutely love your programs. I've tried power lift. I'm 5-8, 29 years old, female weighing about 155 pounds. I have about 17% body fat according to a Dexa about two months ago. I am a personal trainer part-time, but I do have a full-time desk job as well. I average about any way between 10,000 to 15,000 steps a day. Although I'm not always 100% consistent, my macros are usually about 150 grams of protein, 200 grams of carbs, and I would say upwards of around 70 grams of fat.

Starting point is 00:57:12 I'm rating in because I am experiencing a little bit of a plateau and I would like some guidance on what to do next. Being a personal trainer, I like following programs like yours. I also have followed like Jordan Saitz and a few others because I feel like it really helps expand my knowledge and keeps me fresh as a trainer. Although I have multiple maps programs, I've only completed power lift, truthfully.

Starting point is 00:57:40 I actually just purchased quite a few with your 60% off sale, which I am very grateful for that came in clutch. At this point, I'm following my own structured two upper and two lower workout splits. I enjoy my workouts, but I feel like, you know, I'm plateauing a bit, and I'd like your experience on what to do next and what program to do next. I welcome any and all feedback. I love you guys and appreciate all you do.

Starting point is 00:58:12 Emily, Emily, do you realize what's going on here? You're literally 155, 17% body fat at 58, which is incredibly fit. And you admit that you don't even consistently 100% hit your macros all the time. Like that's, if you really wanted to get leaner or if that's the goal, or is the goal to get stronger. Consistency, a little more consistency around nutrition might squeeze out a little bit more for you, but you're actually in an incredible place. What's the goal?

Starting point is 00:58:47 What's the main goal? Yeah, what's your plateau? What are you wanting to do? I don't, honestly, I know I'm in a good place physically. I have no, like, I'm aware that I'm on an elite level of, in terms of my body composition, and where I'm at, I just, I kind of like that challenge, the constant, like chasing some sort of goal or, you know, I loved power lift because it made me push my weight. I never have, you know, deadlift or squatted what I was doing in that program. And I, you know, that was due to the structured guidance I had from you guys in that program of, you know, reaching those lower, those,

Starting point is 00:59:35 lower reps, higher weight kind of deal. I guess at this time, I just feel like truly, I feel like I could, with how much energy and time I do put into my health and fitness, physically, I guess I would be chasing strength because I'm looking to kind of Yeah, gain strength. My core has always been something that I just, it's like my problem area that for me, it's like my eyes immediately go to that. And I don't know if that's maybe a, would be a nutritional thing, cutting out something or not maybe not cutting out, but increasing my calories, I would imagine is something you'd probably tell me to do. I've never done a bulk. So the idea of that really scares me. But, but. I trust what you guys have to say. And I'd like to fully take on whatever advice you give me and give it a go. That's great.

Starting point is 01:00:51 Emily, so your goal is strength. You want to get stronger. Yeah, I want to get stronger. I don't need, I know I don't, I don't want to lose any body fat. I want to just gain strength. If you, and you kind of already answered this, but you said you trained people too. If you were your own client, right? So just imagine that you're talking to you.

Starting point is 01:01:09 Yes. And you came to you and you're like, hey, I want to get stronger. What would you tell you? I would tell me that you need to fuel that strength. Yeah. You have good advice. I've learned it from the best, honestly. You guys have totally changed my life.

Starting point is 01:01:29 It's amazing. Are you ready for some real changes? Yeah. Okay. You got to eat more. And you're too lean to make the kind of strength gains that you're looking for. You probably, you need to, here's where it's going to get scary. You ready?

Starting point is 01:01:46 Okay. You got to eat more, but I got something more scary for you. You also got to gain some body fat. You got to get up to probably 19, 20 percent to really maximize those strength gains. And it will look great. But the beauty of that is on the path there. you're going to be eating way more calories than you've ever eaten. And you can always come back to this.

Starting point is 01:02:11 And you're going to build more muscle. You can always come right back to where you're at. You have the tools. You have the discipline. You have the know-how to do it. And so it's not like to, you have to stay up there forever if you don't like it. What happens to a lot of female clients that we send this path, they end up going, oh, shit, I really like this.

Starting point is 01:02:28 I like it. And you're probably going to have a better hormone profile. You're probably going to have more energy. More metabolic flexibility. So nutritionally, you can get it. get away with more. Lebedo will feel good, joints will feel good, and you're going to be stronger than you've ever been before.

Starting point is 01:02:42 So just a little, a little background in why I think I have this fear is growing up, I was always honestly, I was a chubby kid. And I've never had a problem loving food. I love food. So that's why I feel like I've worked so hard to get to this place. And I can honestly say, like, I can honestly say, like, I still do eat. Like I eat my, I just eat whole natural foods, kind of like what I feel like you guys tell

Starting point is 01:03:12 everyone. So it's not a problem of actually eating it. It's like knowing where my numbers are that I, I'm someone like I'm disciplined. I can follow a plan. I, if you tell me what to do, like you jump, tell me to jump. I'll ask how high. Like I want to know. do you have an idea of numbers I should start getting?

Starting point is 01:03:38 Add 25 grams of carbs and add another 20 grams of fat. That'll do it. Just start there. Don't, nothing with my protein. I mean, you can have a little more protein if it comes with that. It's not a big deal. I mean, where your fats at, I'd love to see you at 80, 80 grams of fat consistently. So I think that'll serve you alone.

Starting point is 01:03:58 Yeah, I looked at your calories. It looks like you're right around 2,200 or something like that. Yeah, I would say I'm between. 2,000 to 25 to 2,500. You should probably live at 2,500. Mm-hmm. So 2,500 is where you're going to live, not going down to 2. And you're in such a good place in all your macros that you can evenly distribute that across or you can go and you're, so here's, here's what's great about where you're at macro wise, okay?

Starting point is 01:04:22 And you don't need to overthink this is you're, as long as you're hitting your protein consistently, that comes number one priority. But you have room in carbs, rooms and fat and room in protein to go up in any and all. And so I would choose whatever you want or I would play with it. Maybe I would get those extra three, four hundred calories from fat for a week and see how that my body feels and responds. Then other weeks, I would get the calories from carbs to see how I feel. And then I would do protein. And then I do a mix and then really just evaluate what satisfies your cravings, what gives

Starting point is 01:04:53 you the best workouts. What do you see yourself doing more consistent? Because you have the room in every macro to go up and be completely healthy and good. and then you choose. You choose what you like. But I'll just back you up. What Adam's saying is such great advice. And I'm just going to back you up and say,

Starting point is 01:05:12 it would be great to be able to do this and not fear that chubby girl that you were when you were a kid. Like, how would you like to do this and not be fearful anymore? I love that. And I've had some, you know, as a 29-year-old female, I can confidently say like I've had my own journey with my health and fitness. Hey, sorry, I have dogs. I can confidently say that, you know, I've had the point where I was, I was noticeably too lean and now I know that like I feel like I'm in a healthier place.

Starting point is 01:05:50 I'm fueling my body correctly. But I just feel like now I'm kind of looking to not be lean but be strong and like be that, you know, example that I'm. know like my clients need and, you know, I, I'd want to be for someone else. With that, what program would you guys say out of your programs for me to... I'd love to see you do something more novel. But I also want you to do something that you're going to be motivated to do. So I get, if you really love power lifting on that one, but like Map Strong or Old Time

Starting point is 01:06:27 would be like a really cool program. For traditional, more strong power lift, anabolic would probably be your programs for strength. Okay. I actually just got anabolic with that sale. And is it two days a week? No, you do a three. Yeah, you do three.

Starting point is 01:06:44 So it'll give you two workouts, but you could do them Monday, Wednesday, Friday. So, you know, workout A would be duplicated in the week one. And week two, it's workout B. And then as you get to the later phases, then it's a three day. Gotcha. Okay, because I just started, I did, the pre-

Starting point is 01:07:01 yesterday I did the pre-phase. You don't need your pre-phase. Yeah. Okay. So with your experience, we jump right into the program. Go right into phase one. Cool.

Starting point is 01:07:09 Phase one, bump your calories, get strong, and stop measuring your body fat, don't weigh yourself, focus on the strength, fuel the strength. And I'm going to tell you right now, if you get stronger

Starting point is 01:07:24 and your body fat percentage actually goes up, you're going to feel so good. so good. But the most, the best feeling is going to be the getting rid of the fear because then you see like, oh, this isn't scary at all. Like this is totally fun. This is great. Yeah, no, I agree. At one point, I don't think I would ever even considering I would ever have considered, you know, quote on quote, like bulking. I don't know if this is considered bulking, $2,500. But I know that like, you know, I hear you guys talk to callers and say, like, how amazing is it to get your calories up to a place that your body is working so efficiently on, you know, higher calories. And I know it's not a myth. It's real. So I want to get there, too.

Starting point is 01:08:13 You're going to respond really well. You're going to respond really well because you're not coming from like a really scary place. You're actually coming from not a bad place. But what you've been doing for a while is meeting your intake. with your activity. And so you're just kind of like, and that's why you're walking around at 17% body fat. Yeah. Because you're kind of playing with that, which there's nothing wrong with that.

Starting point is 01:08:35 But when you go in that surplus, now you've got the building blocks to really build the strength and stuff, and you're going to feel like a superhuman. And your body's going to respond really well to this. Yeah. Awesome. I'm super excited.

Starting point is 01:08:49 Cool. So I will continue with anabolic. Yep. And I'll butt my calories. to 2,500, staying there. Increase my carbs and fats, maybe some protein, and I'll see where I go. Yeah, we know where you're going to go. You're going to get a strong tech.

Starting point is 01:09:06 Awesome. Well, I'm really excited. Thank you guys so much for speaking with me. You got it. Thanks, Emily. I really appreciate it. Have a good one. Bye-bye.

Starting point is 01:09:13 It's going to be, I mean, she's so, so here's a deal. When you reverse diet, someone who came from a really super low calorie, like, that's scary. It takes time. It takes a long time. She's healthy. Yeah. So she's just going to go into a bulk and just get strong.

Starting point is 01:09:28 Right off the gate. Which is going to be flip. Well, that was my original point of like when she first dropped all the numbers. I'm like, you're in a... You're fine. You're fine. Like you're incredibly lean. She could live there.

Starting point is 01:09:37 Already. You're eating 2,000 plus calories. So she's not in like this unhealthy bad state. But what's your goal? Okay, you want to build more strength. Yeah. You're not going to go anywhere with that low of calorie, that much activity. You've probably much peaked out what you're going to get.

Starting point is 01:09:53 She bumps four or 500 calories. switches to a new program and train hard. She's going to... Turbo. Yeah, turbo charge that. Our next caller is Shelby from Alberta. Hi, Shelby. How are you guys?

Starting point is 01:10:05 Good. How are you guys? Good. We're good. How can we help you? Okay. So, kind of read my email here. I'm from a small town in Alberta. And last year, I bought a gym because that's what you do in small towns. I had no interest in working out, but then I had to justify the purchase. So I had a couple pounds to lose and decided that I might as well make use of this facility. I ended up teaching classes last year two to three days a week.

Starting point is 01:10:35 So my own like workout programming wasn't super consistent. Obviously I was moving, but diet also wasn't consistent. So like I knew what I needed to do, but I wasn't exactly doing it. I was sitting around 150 pounds. I'm 5'8 and 27 years old. So this spring, we stopped classes for the summer, and that's when I got the chance to really commit to my own fitness programming. Around end of April, beginning of May is when I started being really consistent, so I was working out three days a week, walking 10 to 15,000 steps and trying to run 5K once a week, but I hate cardio, so that wasn't always consistent. My diet was pretty dialed in at 1750 calories, and I managed to get the weight off.

Starting point is 01:11:23 So I bounced around with programming from push-pull legs, stop or lower, and just recently switched to three days a week full body. My reasoning was that I felt I wasn't really giving my all-on leg days, so I tried this. I'm down to 135 pounds. I started reverse dieting in September, and now I'm up to 20. to 50 calories and consistently getting 130 grams of protein. So my focus for this winter is to put the muscle back on and just kind of see what I can do. So I'm still doing three days a week, but that will be switching right away here because we're about to start classes up again.

Starting point is 01:12:01 So I'm going to drop that down to two days. Yeah, I guess something that I've been playing with that I'm kind of just interested to know your thoughts on is supersets versus rest. between, like doing two exercises and then rest, or adding drop sets to try and get past a plateau. And going down to two days a week, what kind of split would you look at? Would I stay with the full body or any other suggestions? Tell me a little bit about the classes you're going to be teaching. So it's going to be like a full body boot camp, like interval style one day a week.

Starting point is 01:12:41 Well, probably two days a week and probably Zoom, but two days a week. And you're doing the class with them? Yeah. Okay. We definitely don't want our strength training to be super setting. And in fact, you want to go the complete opposite direction, almost power lifter style where you do a set, rest for three minutes, do another set, one exercise. Because you're going to be doing so much circuit and fast pace, almost cardio, weightlifting and all the other stuff. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:13:11 If you want to get the benefits from lifting weights, you're going to need at least a day or two of that in your week. Otherwise, you're just going to burn, burn, burn, burn, burn. The other option is to do a couple lifts a day, like a MAPS 15 style workout. So you obviously have access to barbells six days a week. And so you basically do two lifts a day. So every day it's like 20 minutes,

Starting point is 01:13:39 rather than two days a week of this kind of full-bub. That would serve you well with your already volume. That's right. And that might actually build more muscle for you. That would be ideal if you would be down to do it. And then the other side of it, too, is you got to bump your calories when you're adding these classes. So whatever you're eating now is not enough. You're going to say that.

Starting point is 01:13:58 So I would jump another 400 calories. We could send you a MAPS 15. Follow that and get stronger. How long have you been? I got to back up here for a second. Shelby, you didn't, like, you just bought a gym? I wanted to do. I wanted to do. I wanted to dress. That's just what you do. You have no idea. This was a whim. I literally, I looked at my cousin one day, and I was like, you know that gym that's for sale? I think we should buy it.

Starting point is 01:14:23 She goes, well, I've been thinking about it. I was like, well, let's just go look at the building. Like, this was just a random Friday night. Wow. So we looked at it, made an offer the next week. They accepted the inspection was good. And then we were like, oh, man, we own a gym. Okay. Wow. Now, were you, okay, were you like a major lifter or consistently before? No. No. Just felt a calling. That's awesome. Okay. So since then, I got like my group fitness certification, my Zumba, and I just got certified as a personal trainer. So like, we're committed, but it's, yeah. Okay. Well, and that was when last year? Yeah, like we've been open for just over a year. Okay. So here's, this is what's great. You're new with this with yourself. and so your goal should always be to get stronger.

Starting point is 01:15:10 For the next two or three years, just get, if you're getting stronger, you're building muscle. Now, after three, four years, five years, you get diminishing returns with chasing strength

Starting point is 01:15:20 because you start to kind of hit that kind of upper limit, not saying you can't get stronger, but it's not as like, the returns on strength right now are everything. So if you follow Maps 15 and you feed yourself properly and you're getting stronger, you're moving the right direction.

Starting point is 01:15:35 If you're not getting stronger, than it's typically a calorie problem or a programming problem, in which case for you, the programming issue would be put less effort into the classes. What I mean by that is find a way to teach the class without you doing the workout with them. Because it is an endurance style workout, which is a competing signal to strength training. Okay. So any chance that you can outsource that or just teach walking versus actually doing, you're winning. That should be kind of the goal.

Starting point is 01:16:06 In fact, Shelby, I'll tell you this. This is actually good for someone like you who's new to the gym industry. There's nothing wrong with doing the workout with the group. But a lot of instructors think that if they don't do the workout with the group, they're going to be less motivating.

Starting point is 01:16:19 That's actually not true. The most motivating instructors are the ones that demonstrate the exercise while everybody's working around. They walk around in correct form and motivate people. That's the best instructor. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:32 So like amateur instructors, they're doing it with them. pro instructors are coaching while everybody else is doing the workout. And so, and that'll get you out of this like, because that's a lot, dude, to be doing that many classes.

Starting point is 01:16:45 You look for the ones struggling the most and you're bringing it up. So like you demonstrate it and then you walk around and you're like motivating people correcting form. Then you go back, show them the next one, then you walk around, you know, that kind of deal.

Starting point is 01:16:57 Maths 15 is a goal. Consistently hit protein. Yep. Another tip, if you are going to do any of the high intensity classes, do some drink, some calories before you go into it. Get some fuel. Fill your body

Starting point is 01:17:08 with liquid, like liquid calories. So digest it quick and you can use that to burn while you're in there. And follow math 15 consistently and just try and get strong. We'll send that to you. And then are you in our course because we teach coaches and trainers how to build our business?

Starting point is 01:17:25 No, but that would be fantastic because I am just clownering. All right. I'm going to send, let's have maybe Ann. We'll have Ann call you. So she's our head instructor for all coaches that are building their business, she'll give you a call and tell you what it's all about. Yeah, we do. I mean, this is what we do is part of what we do. But great job.

Starting point is 01:17:42 Super excited. Are you profitable or how are you doing? Yeah. So we kind of had to restructure some financing and whatever, but like we opened September of last year and so September, end of September this year would have been a year. Right now we have somebody else in teaching classes two days a week. We have the backspace rented out two days a week. So like the summer obviously is a and we're just kind of getting through our, like, figuring out what the cycle is throughout the year. Yeah. But we made it through the summer.

Starting point is 01:18:13 You do realize you jumped in like the hardest business. Yeah. That's awesome. But you're at a good time. Small towns are different. Yeah. Because small towns, we have no competition. No, I have.

Starting point is 01:18:23 I came from a small town, one gym in the entire town. My best friend owned it. I have all kinds of advice for you around that, that. crush and she killed it. She killed it because she was the only, only business in town. So there is a lot of advantage to being in a small town where you're the only. And you got a great personality and attitude. And this is a good time of year for you right now. So when all the kids go back, this was such a weird learning curve for me. I always thought summer would be where we banged it out. Summer was always the hardest time to make money.

Starting point is 01:18:53 When all the kids go back to school, this is when you make your money. So this is the beginning of a good time for you guys and good timing for you to be potentially getting with us. Yeah. Awesome. All right. We'll send you that program and then we'll have some of out. Maybe we can help you out with your business too. Awesome. Thank you so much. I got it. I had never heard that before. It's so great. You know it sound like a drunken night with your cousin?

Starting point is 01:19:15 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know that empty building? We should buy that. You're right. Business plans on a napkin. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's only one every time you come back from burning men. Make a pretty good gym.

Starting point is 01:19:24 There's no gyms in this town. This is literally like the one time that you spent an hour trying to convince us to buy a yogurt shop. Remember that? Remember that, dude? Just want you to know. Yeah. That's not dead.

Starting point is 01:19:36 He literally tried to sell us up by your... You threw half the product. Yeah. Frozen yogurt. They listeners. They listen to listen this and they'll know. Like 10 years when we have this fucking booming yogurt shop. I'm going to be like, I told you so.

Starting point is 01:19:47 Yogurt pump. Our next caller is Connor from New Hampshire. What's up, Connor? What's on Connor? What's happening? Gentlemen, nice to see you. I'll just kind of get right to the point with my email. 36 years old, 6-2.

Starting point is 01:20:04 and I work remotely as an engineer, environmental consultant. I've been a longtime listener in MindPump, and I want to thank you, all of you for your insights and your programs have generally reshaped my perspective and helped me stay grounded over the years. A bit of background, I've struggled with weight with most of my life. At 16, I was 300 pounds, and during college, I reached 365, 370. I've gained and lost 65 to 70 pounds multiple times. After college, I started working in the field of environmental cleanup work,

Starting point is 01:20:42 which involved heavy travel and not so desirable locations. Despite inconsistent gym access, I discovered mind pump around 2015 and 2016 and began prioritizing fitness when I wasn't on the road. By 2019, I was down to 285. early 2019, I met my now wife, and she moved in during the COVID lockdown. I was running MAP Strong at the time, which is still my favorite program. And like so many others, the gym closures and pandemic habits led to poor eating and drinking and an activity. By late 2022, I was back up to 360, and we were married in February of 2024.

Starting point is 01:21:26 In August of 2024, after learning, we were expecting our first child in June, April. I started semi-glutide with a goal to drop below 300 pounds before the baby arrived. It helped tremendously. My appetite decreased, less food noise, and I was less inclined to drink. Reach my goal in late March, and by the end of April, I was at 295. since then I've maintained around 290 my workouts I feel like I've been more inconsistent with the demands of fatherhood but I aim for one to two gym sessions a week

Starting point is 01:22:06 workout recovery on gLP1 has been slower than I'm used to experiencing even with low volume I use the hume body pod to track progress early around 31% body fat with 185 to 187 pounds of lean mass. Current track calories is between 2,300 and 2,400, but 205 grams of protein per day. And my biggest challenge is consistency. I can somewhat reliably train twice a week on Mondays and Fridays. However, travel, unexpected work commitments and family responsibilities can often disrupt the time I've set aside from myself to get making into the gym. I'm learning to give myself grace and stay active where I can walk, swimming, trigger sessions,

Starting point is 01:22:55 bottom weight chores between structured programming, or I'll drop calories on days where I don't work out and just day got away from me. I'm considering tapering off my GLP1 now that I've plateaued and I want to use it to my advantage to gain strength and muscle. I've yet to discuss this with my doctor, but I want to have a clear and concise path and approach. I've outlined a phase strategy,

Starting point is 01:23:22 using anabolic but I'd love your input um you go ahead you're you're doing so good you've done so good you really have i mean that even the ability for you to eat 23 to 2,400 and hit your calorie and hit your protein intake on a glp1 and to do that and you're still getting it you're doing it you're doing a really good job i hope you know that like this you're in a good place and you've done really well a lot of people that do glp ones they just crush the appetite and just, you know, lose weight and, and they lose a bunch of muscle and they kill their metabolism. And then they're in this crazy, they lost a bunch of weight, but then this hole that they got to dig out of, you're in a good place.

Starting point is 01:24:04 You really are. Yeah. Yeah. And before I started, I was like, I need to do this right or I'm going to screw myself even more. And I got that from information from you guys. I got to do this right. I don't want to end up, you know, one, taking this for the rest of my life, then go to putting myself in a spot where, it's just it's going to be wasted

Starting point is 01:24:24 a wasted effort Connor how old's your how old your baby that's exactly where I'm going is well I want to know like are we is it a good time right now to potentially try and ramp this up with the with the baby yeah yeah she's six months old no all right so I got something I think I know how to help you here I think the best strategy well let me let's back up for a second

Starting point is 01:24:45 what's the challenge with food what are the things that trigger you when you're off the GLP one, when do you go off, let's say, you know, for lack of a better term, go off the rails with, with diet? I would say it's usually either eating out or it would be just like two weeks ago was having all the Halloween candy around. Luckily, I'm also in a spot where I also do all the grocery shopping. So I can, I really have a good control over what's in my house and, you know, what I like to keep around. My diet is mostly whole foods, mostly all homemade stuff, but maybe one or two meals a week. You know, we're, you know, we're dead tired on a Friday and my wife wants Thai food.

Starting point is 01:25:30 And at this point, my what my life wants my wife gets. She wants Thai food. We're getting Thai food. When, uh, you mind if I bring up a little bit more on the email that you put up there? Yeah, sure. It's said that you also have a less desire to drink. Was that, was that where you were getting some calories before? Was it like where you would.

Starting point is 01:25:46 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially my, it might, all throughout my time. 20s, you know, I live in a nice town with a lot of great bars around. And that was, it was like my, our social life was, you know, a lot of going out, you know, drinking, having some pizza at the end of the night, you know, standard stuff. And, you know, I got to my 30s. I was like, this is, this is enough. This is too much. And, you know, that, that thought of like, man,

Starting point is 01:26:14 you know, I just don't need a beer. I'm perfectly fine with, you know, maybe a diet ginger ale or something like that and or a big jug of water at the at the end of the night but you know the the thought of you know having a lot of alcohol was just just not in my purview anymore and it's even more so not now that I'm a dad because I want to I don't want to end up in a situation if there's an emergency or something that I'm you know inebrated and like I got to be ready and I can't I can't be in a state so good motivation dude what's so I don't want to I asked you the triggers, like, is it stress? Is it boredom?

Starting point is 01:26:53 Is it like, uh, yeah, I would say it's, it's boredom. And, you know, I've kind of explored this internally too. You know, I've been a big guy my entire life. And I don't know if it's a, uh, I don't really know if it's like the psychological thing that I grew up with, but like, hey, you're a big guy. You got to eat. And it's, you know what I mean? And that is just, you know, it's.

Starting point is 01:27:19 you know, you know, grandma giving you another, another plate of Thanksgiving, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, it's like, I have no desire to eat anymore, but someone, like, I feel almost feel bad if I don't eat the food. You know what I mean? It's such a, it's such a weird thing that I've, I've, I've, I've reconciled that that's been a problem of mine. And I've been really, really good with, or, you know, what I can to just like, just put the food away. Like, it's like, I'm, I'm no longer hungry. It's like, it's even, even being on a G. LP won. It's like, oh, now I know what hungry feels like. I was just going to say, dude, there's a couple things here. One, you've got to replace old behaviors with new ones around boredom. And this is a practice because your default

Starting point is 01:28:04 might be when I'm bored, I eat. So when you're bored, find something that you can practice and that can be like, this is when I read, this is when I stretch. I don't know, this is when I pray. This is when I play with my kid. Whatever. Find a behavior that you always go to when you're bored. And at first, it's going to be a conscious effort because it's not going to feel automatic. But over time, it'll become your new behavior. So that's one. Yeah. The second thing is, you want to get comfortable with the feeling of not being full. So what I hear is, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that for so long, you wait until probably because the environment you win, and I get this because I'm Italian. This is how we eat. Yeah. Yeah. And

Starting point is 01:28:47 is, unless I'm stuffed, then I got to eat more. And so you got to get, so try to get comfortable with the feeling of not being stuffed. Yeah. Hunger to you might actually be not feeling stuffed. It might not actually be hunger. It's just, I feel like I can eat more. And so that might be what you're making, what you think might be hunger. So you want to get comfortable with that.

Starting point is 01:29:12 And then as a workout, I think this will be better for you, Connor. I think if you do a little bit every day versus trying to go to the gym twice a week, you'll find more consistency. And then on those off times, when you got time to go to the gym, go to the gym and do four major lifts. But I'd love to see you have a suspension trainer

Starting point is 01:29:30 in your home, and every day you do a few exercises on it. That's what you do. Every day, every day you get up, maybe you do at the beginning of the day, and you do two or three strength training exercise on the suspension trainer. And then when that day comes up,

Starting point is 01:29:44 we're like, oh my God, I got two hours to myself. I'm going to go to the gym, and I'm going to do like three or four compound lifts. And we don't normally do this, Connor, but can I mail you? Do you have a suspension trainer? I don't. And honestly, I live in such an old apartment. It's old Navy housing. I don't even know, like, I have horse plaster walls and stuff like that.

Starting point is 01:30:07 So I don't even know where I would put one. Doorway. Yeah. You can hook it over a door, right? Don't they have it? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:30:14 So you do is you close the door and there's a little stopper and it goes in the door at the top. Yeah. Yeah. And then. Okay. A little bean bag that goes on the other side. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:30:23 I have something similar to that with my, um, my bands. There you go. So what we'll do is, we don't do, I'm saying we don't do this because don't come on people watching this. Don't expect me to mail you something. I'm going to send you a suspension trainer on us. And I'm going to send you maps 15. And every day. I have it maps.

Starting point is 01:30:42 Okay. There you go. Follow every day, every day do a little something. And then those off days that you got time, go to the gym. That's it. That's your working.

Starting point is 01:30:51 And that'll be your consistency, bro. And it'll be great for you, especially even when you travel, you take your suspension trainer with you. And any hotel room door, you hook it up, and then you got your workout.

Starting point is 01:31:01 It'll help you with work. It'll help you with a mental state. It's on it every day, a little bit every day. It's an easier habit to build. And then if you miss a day here or there, it's not a big deal. I want to piggyback off of why

Starting point is 01:31:13 style is going this direction and I think it has a lot to do with probably your workload and that you have a six-month-old still. And this may not be the best time to come off the GLP 1 because what we in a perfect world, what I would want to hear from you is that, you know, House is getting back to its rhythm. I've got my, I've got plenty of. I can get to the gym three, four days a week if I wanted to, you know, baby's taking care of. I'm good. I'm rested. You know what I'm saying? And, and, and, okay, let's start to tail back on the GLP 1. Let's increase calories. Let's really start. to push the heavy weight in the gym, and that'll be a nice transition out of where you're currently at.

Starting point is 01:31:49 Yeah. But if you're not quite there yet with the sleep and with the baby being able to be taking care of more and you really being able to commit to like, yeah, I could easily get away for three, four hours a week to the gym, then it's probably, like, what you're doing is actually really good. You're doing a good job. Yeah, your calories aren't bad. Yeah, you're in a really, you're actually in a really good place, especially for the

Starting point is 01:32:09 place you are in fatherhood right now. Yep. Now, what I don't know, I don't know what your help and support is. I don't know if you have that ability to get away three, four times a week, and you could dedicate that and you can see that consistently with your work and everything. But I'd want to hear that from you first before I would recommend going off the GLP one and increase. By the way, a little bit every day, Connor, with what you're doing, you're going to progress. You're still going to see progress.

Starting point is 01:32:31 You're going to continue to slowly progress. Yeah. Is what's going to happen. And I'll just say this, especially if you plan on having more kids. Yeah. Okay, you do. Okay, so here's what it's going to look like. Here's what it's going to look like for you.

Starting point is 01:32:44 Most of the time you're doing this kind of like a little bit of workout every day. I'm going to stay active, take my steps. I'm going to eat healthy. And then there are going to be periods of time when you can sprint and get after it. And then there's going to be long periods of time where, you know, because your family's number one. So I'm going to build myself to my family, my job. But what makes you a good, a better father, better husband is if you stay fit and healthy. So every day I do a little something.

Starting point is 01:33:08 And then in between, walk. Like throughout the day, going to walks, which I think you're doing, right? You're already doing that? Yeah, yeah, I'll go for walks. I'll take the baby out, you know, take her for a nice walk in the jogger all the way down to downtown and back. Love that. You're good, dude. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:33:23 Like, if you follow Massifteen, do the suspension version just every day. And then you get those occasional days at the gym, go to the gym and do, you know, three, four lifts. Just compound lifts, you know, a squat, a press, a row, maybe a core exercise. and then get out of there in 45 minutes to an hour. Otherwise, you're doing, you know, you're doing two suspension trainer exercise a day plus walking with your diet. You're going to see yourself progress. Yeah, that's, again, it's, I don't, maybe it's one of those things where I'm just like,

Starting point is 01:33:57 I want to, I want to progress more, but I guess I understand that that rate is just going to, it's not going to be at the, that, that it's going to not going to be like this or this. It's going to be. Yes. Much more. Well, here's the myth. The myth right now with your lifestyle is that there's a faster way to progress, but there isn't. Because if you try to chase the faster way, you're not going to progress.

Starting point is 01:34:20 You'll burn out. You're going to find yourself being inconsistent. You'll stall. You'll burn out. It'll be hard. I'm giving you the way that's going to give you the best results, too, not just the one that, you know, like the graph you just put. This is actually how you're going to get results the whole time. Right.

Starting point is 01:34:33 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate that. When, I don't know if you, you know, the rest. read like the rest of the email about, you know, the g-lp-1 down, reverse dying slowly up. Is this, your take is just that maybe that's just not the time to do that. I mean, if you did, I agree with Adam. It might be not.

Starting point is 01:34:54 But look, here's a deal. If you're like, I want to try it. This is what it looks like. You start scaling down the dose and you start seeing how you feel. Replace those, the old behaviors with new ones. You're going to feel hungrier. All right. What does that look like?

Starting point is 01:35:07 How can I deal with that? And then if you feel like, oh, I'm not ready yet, you just scale back up. So it'll kind of look like that. But, I mean, it might be okay. I mean, if I was coaching you, we could totally, we would totally test this out. Like, if you came to me like that, I'd be like, all right, let's test it out. And then because I'd be, I'd be talking to you on a weekly basis, I would keep an eye on it, hear you out. And then I'd be like, eh, maybe not a good time right now.

Starting point is 01:35:28 Or I'd be like, yeah, you're doing great. Keep it going. So how long have you been on it? Since, that was November. September, November of last of 2024. So typically when someone's been on a GLP1 consistently for a year or two and they come off, they have better success than if it was only like three, four months, five months. Right.

Starting point is 01:35:53 Yeah. So the neural networks have started to change already around how you are with food. So, you know, if you stayed on for another six months and then started scaling it down, you have a pretty good chance of being okay. But again, you find yourself being like, I'm not ready. You could just go right back up. Right. Yeah, and I've been on the max dose for, you know, quite some time.

Starting point is 01:36:12 And so that just kind of stalled out. Like, maybe it is time to, that's what my thought was. Maybe it is time to just taper it down, get my appetite back, use that increase in appetite to, you know, help with recovery and increase, increase volume. Honestly, I think if you did maps 15, even what you're eating now, if that's what you're eating consistently, you're going to see progress. I think it's the consistency is a big one. How's your sleep and how's the baby sleep right now? Oh, boy. Yeah, that's what I'm worried about.

Starting point is 01:36:44 Sometimes it's like every two hours. I think last night was the first night. She's only woken up once pretty much since she came home. Welcome to fatherhood. Yeah. But she's a very happy, healthy babies. That's all I care about. Yeah, you're good, dude.

Starting point is 01:37:00 That's right. Yeah, right now, I mean, again, we'll go back to if you and I were talking on a weekly basis. I'm encouraging you that you're doing a hell of a job right now. You're doing really good, what you're doing. I think what Sal is saying with Maps 15, hey, let's throw it on there. I actually would have,

Starting point is 01:37:14 I wouldn't try and put high expectations on what to expect from that. Oh, we're going to build all this muscle. It's like, we want to weather the storm right now because it's not going to be forever that you have a baby who's waking up three times a night, every night and having to work eight, 10 hours days.

Starting point is 01:37:28 Like that you're going to get through that storm. And then when you get through that storm, it's like, all right, now we scale this gLP one down. Now we ramp up calories a little bit. Now we get after intensity. the gym and let's see your body respond. But trying to do it while you're also going through that,

Starting point is 01:37:43 you're just going to frustrate yourself, burn out, and then get discouraged. But don't be surprised. Don't be a season for it. Yeah, but don't be surprised at the progress you see with the, with the consistency of Apps 15. I think that consistency is going to, you're going to see some good, some good progress.

Starting point is 01:37:59 Oh, great. I appreciate that guys. Email, Doug, your address. Sure. Send back to us your address. This is the only time I've ever going to do this. Nobody get on here and ask. Well, I appreciate it.

Starting point is 01:38:10 I've reached out to Jerry to contact him. Oh, you're on it. All right. So we'll have someone reach out to you. Yep. We're on it. All right, great. All right, Connor. All right. All right. I appreciate it, guys. Take care. God bless. He's been a listener for a long time. You think, I don't know if he's going to see great results on the suspension trade. You think so. You know why? Because as I'm reading his email, just because of frequency.

Starting point is 01:38:28 Consistency. Yeah, but he's still, he's lifting two days a week in the gym. He's not. He's a consistency in his email. Sleeping. Oh. Yeah. So when you read his email, as I'm reading through. He's like, this is the big. issue that I have. Because that's not what I understand, what I got.

Starting point is 01:38:42 One, okay, wait, go back. I see it. Go that way. I saw it right there. But I'm one to two gyms, okay. Inconsistent with the demands of fatherhood, but I aim for. Okay. One to two gyms such.

Starting point is 01:38:53 So what that tells me is, okay, that's fair. Yeah, I interpreted it as he's like consistently doing two days a week. Because if he was doing two days of like good full body workouts. There's nothing wrong. Then you go down to suspension. I don't think he's going to see more results from that. But you're right. If he's inconsistent with his lifting and it's one time...

Starting point is 01:39:11 He'd a bit of a strength boost from that. Totally. Yeah. But nonetheless, again, if I'm coaching him, I don't care. I don't care if we don't see progress. That's right. This is not the time. Like, your baby's getting up two, three times a week.

Starting point is 01:39:23 You're on a GLP one. You keep the muscle you have. Exactly. You've done incredible to this point. It's like, we weather the storm right now. It's not going to be like this forever. You're going to make a turn. You're going to be getting better rest.

Starting point is 01:39:35 You're going to have more free time. then we ramp it up, then we come down off the GOP on, then we increase calories, and then you let your body respond. That's right. That's right. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram.

Starting point is 01:39:46 Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic,

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2739: When Overtraining Becomes a Superpower

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