Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2747: The New Rules for Modern Manhood w/ Larry Hagner

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

 Being a Good Man, Husband, and Father with Larry Hagner The impetus behind his new book. (1:45) The drift. (2:42) The loneliness epidemic for men. (6:02) The hungriness generation of dad's. (7:21) How to navigate through the fork in the road. (8:28) The common themes that are most difficult for men. (9:57) The importance of understanding your partner's needs. (13:44) Leadership as it applies to men. (17:54) The 5 P's of attraction. (24:13) Tactics to improve strained marriages. (28:09) Iron sharpens iron. (32:15) Married first, parent second. A playbook for new parents. (39:00) What has coaching taught him? (44:46) Modern challenges' impact on a man's ability to be a good father. (45:15) The characteristics of men who tend to be more successful. (51:15) Has he ever had to fire a client or tell a man he is with the wrong partner? (55:10) The value of pre-marriage counseling. (1:00:38) Related Links/Products Mentioned The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood book Get coached by Larry Hagner Visit Hiya for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Receive 50% off your first order ** MAPS 15 STRONG 50% half from Dec. 7th-13th. Code DECEMBER50 at checkout. Mind Pump Store No More Mr Nice Guy: A Proven Plan for Getting What You Want in Love, Sex, and Life – Book by Robert A. Glover Keith Yackey - The Married Game - The Dad Edge The Married Game: The Playbook to Primal Sex and Unlimited Pleasure Inside Your Marriage – Book by Keith Yackey The Power of One More: The Ultimate Guide to Happiness and Success – Book by Ed Mylett Mind Pump #2705: How to Quit Pornography with Sathiya Sam Mind Pump #2132: Six Reasons Men Today are Weak Couples that pray together, stay together Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest/People Mentioned Larry Hagner (@thedadedge) Instagram Podcast Website Ryan Michler (@ryanmichler) Instagram Keith Yackey (@keithyackey) Instagram Jim Gaffigan (@jimgaffigan) Instagram Ed Mylett - Entrepreneur (@edmylett) Instagram  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump, Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast in the history of the universe. That's right. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we have Larry Hagner on the podcast. He is the host of the Dad Edge.

This episode is phenomenal. We talk about being a good man, husband, and father. In fact, he wrote a great book called The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood. We talk a little bit about it on this podcast. You can pre-order it if you go to thedadedge.com forward slash legendary book. Men, you're going to want to listen to this podcast. Ladies, you're going to want to have your man listen to this podcast with you. It's really, really good.

This episode is brought to you by a sponsor. Howia Health. They make multivitamins for children that are not candy. Most multivitamins for kids are just a bunch of candy. This is not that. And it has adequate nutrients that actually make a difference. It's the only multivitamin for kids that we recommend. Go to HayaHealth.com.

That's H-I-Y-A-Halth.com forward slash mind pump. That link will give you 50% off your first order. Also, Maps 15 Strong is out. Brand new program. It's MapSstrong, but in the 15-minute version, and it's 50% off. Go to Maps15strong.com. So Maps15strong.com. use the code December 50 for the discount.

All right, real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpump store.com. I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to mindpump store.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. What's up?

It's doing. It's been a minute as we hung out. Dude, six years, man. Isn't it that long? Six years. Wow. It flies. It does, man.

It flies. You were just talking about your book. Yeah. And how well it did. Tell us a little bit about what it's about and just why you wrote it. It's a fictional story about two old ladies going to bingo. No, it's called Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood. It came out on September 16th.

It's divided up into four parts. One is called The Drift. And happy to talk about that. That's been, I think, the thing I've talked about the most on shows. Husband, father, leader. So four parts. Basically, like everything that we've learned within. the Dad Edge ecosystem or the past 10 years, I pretty much put all of it in that book.

Okay. So, yeah, it's done really well. We did a pre-order campaign, and we sold hundreds of copies, so it's been doing really well. Tell me about the drift. Yeah, what is that? So the drift is like this wash, rinse, repeat, you know, that I think a lot of us, I know I've been the drift before, but the drift is kind of like this sinister thing that kind of happens to men after, you know, we graduate college, we get married. he started having kids. So when I first started doing this work, I hired a mentor back in 2015. He's like,

if you're going to do a podcast, he goes, you really need to have an avatar. And I was like, and at the time, I didn't know what an avatar even was. And I'm like, what does that even mean? He's like, well, you need to picture somebody's life and you speaking directly to them. So when you write your blogs, when you write your books, when you podcast, that's your avatar. So I'll explain the drift and I'll explain my avatar because I think it'll probably make more sense that way. So I came up and I was like, well, how much detail do I have to put into this avatar? He's like, as much as you can. So I wrote like nine pages about this guy's life.

And I'll condense and super short. So Lance is 38 years old. He's been 38 for the past 10 years. But he's got three kids, 10 and under 10, 8, and 5. And he's married to a woman named Kate. And his life, he's the breadwinner. He goes to a job every day that he somewhat despises. You know, he doesn't really hate it, but he doesn't love it.

It's very unfulfilling. So he spends 8, 10, 12 hours a day doing a job that he really doesn't like because 82% of men go to a job every day that they don't like. So he's not really fulfilled that way. He's stressed out, overwhelmed, burnt out, comes home, doesn't transition. And then he's like dad and husband doesn't have the best patience with his kids, wants to connect better with his kids, but just doesn't really know how. And he's just like, well, I guess this is just life. Kate, who he's married to, basically not really intimate. anymore. They're having sex maybe once a month, once every other month. They're connecting only on

the managerial things like the operations of the family, no date nights. They're just sort of stagnant. They're not really going anywhere. They still love each other, but really disconnected. And here's the other thing, too, that is really sinister. So it's the men that speak into Lance's life. So he's not surrounded by good men. He's surrounded by like his old high school and college buddies. And when he starts to talk about this stuff, which is very rarely, his buddies are like, dude, you don't like what you do for a living? None of us, dude. Just get over it. Just put your head down, grind and just go. And you're not having sex with your wife. Dude, you guys been married for like 10 years. You've got three kids. You're not going to have sex anymore. And your kids, they're pains. Like,

they're just going to annoy you. They're going to make you angry. And that's just life, man, just deal with it. And Lance buys into that. But he knows that he's leaving so much on the table, but he just doesn't know how to access it. And he just keeps going. And the worst part about it is, even physically, like he's gained some weight over the years. He doesn't feel confident, doesn't have the best mental health or even emotional health. But he just keeps going and it just gets darker and darker and darker and darker. And how common is that story? When you talk about that, do you get a lot of guys writing in that are like, hey, man, that's me.

That's like almost all I get is, you know, guys just like, I mean, there isn't a week that goes by that I don't get at least a handful of emails. Just guys just pouring their hearts out. And the story is very similar to Lance. And nothing, you know, I do get a lot of emails when people's houses are burning down and families are burning down. But I get a lot of emails that are just like, I'm just not satisfied, but I don't know what to do. Wow. And why do you think that is? And then let's talk about how they can come out of that as men. Like, why do you think that's so common? I think it's so common because, you know, 70% of men have identified being lonely and not having like a 3 a.m. friend or even a

good circle of friends. So most guys spend their life in two places. They're either at work or with family and they really don't have a whole lot of other robust things in their life other than those things. But it's the people that always speak into Lance's life, even like Lance's family, like his dad is like, dude, this is life. Like what did you expect? Come on, man. Like this is life. And but how guys get out of the drift is when guys draw a line in the sand and they basically say enough. And that, I mean, that's what I did. and that's what I've seen other guys do over the past decade. I'm not doing this anymore.

I am not doing this anymore. There's got to be a better way. Once guys start to learn the skills of connecting with their wife, connecting with their kids, learn how to be a validator with their wife, just knowing how to validate their wife's emotional state, they can learn the skill of patience with their kids. Patience is nothing more than emotional resilience.

It's just bottled up and marketed just a little bit different. but that's how a guy takes out. He just draws a line in the sentence and says, no more, I'm going to learn how to do this. Do you think a big reason for that issue is because a lot of men didn't have the example of what it could look like or what it should like so it looked like or just the fact that didn't have a male role model at all? I think it's that for sure.

I think a lot of, so, you know, our generation, like we came from a generation where our dad's just identified probably as the providers, right? That's what they did. They brought home a paycheck. They provided. And that was kind of their role, right? And there really wasn't in this, in the generation before us, there really wasn't, it really wasn't popular to be like, hey, I really have a desire to connect to my kids.

I really want to be with my kids. I really want to have this great marriage with my wife. Now I think in this generation, so our generation of dads, man, you look out on the bleachers of sporting events. You see more dads there. You see more dads on field trips. You see more dads playing with their kids at parks. Like dads, like, I got to hand it to dads like this generation.

They are hungry and they are eager to do something different. Yeah, the data does support that. It does show that men are more involved. I can't help but think about midlife crisis, which was kind of what you're describing. And there seems to be a fork in that road where one direction leads to divorce, maybe an affair, or I'm going to go do this other stuff to try to make myself feel better. And then the other one is the guy that you're describing who's like, I want to change this and make it better. What's the difference? What is the difference between the guy that's like, I can do something about it.

And the other guy that's like, I'm going to escape. Yeah, those are two very common paths, right? And that is the fork on the road. You know, you keep going the way you're going or you do something different. But here's what I'll compare to. You guys are in the health and fitness space. Yeah. You guys have more knowledge than probably just about anybody out there. If anybody asks you, how do I get more fit? How do I get leaner? How do I build muscle? You guys have learned the skills. You weren't born with those skills, but you've learned the skills over the years to do that. Believe it or not, marriage is actually the exact same thing. There are skills that are associated with connecting to your wife, building intimacy, building attraction, all of those things. And it's the same thing with your kids. There are skills to connect with your kids. There are skills to be a more resilient father and just most men. And just we look at that as like, well, if I need to learn that, does that mean I'm less than? Does that mean I'm a weak father? If I have to learn it, shouldn't this come naturally?

And that's one of the biggest blocks. Yeah, that's a very, very good point. When you describe Lance and all the challenges that Lance has and through all the years you've been doing this and all the men that you've helped, do you find there are common themes or common things that are most difficult for men that they all have, like, for example, I would guess, that we do a pretty bad job of making friends once we're 30, 40 years old. And of all the things that you listed that's going on with Lance, you know, I think I can learn some skills

to better connect with my kids. And that would be relatively easy if someone taught me or same thing with my wife. But going out and making friends, I would think, is that, am I on with that? Or is it, what would you say is the most common ones that the men that you help have the hardest time with?

Usually when men, knock on my virtual doorstep, it always usually has to do with marriage. What I have found over doing this work over the past 13 years is that if you can get a guy's marriage in order, you can pretty much get a lot of other things in order. So a guy who's got his marriage on point is usually going to be more productive in the workplace. A guy who's got his marriage on point is probably going to be a more patient father. He's probably going to take better care of himself physically, mentally, emotionally. He's probably going to be a better leader. But most of the time when I ask a guy. I mean, I can almost say it before they do. I was like, what is the biggest roadblock in your

marriage? It's communication. It's communication. And here's, here's the bottom line. I mean, men and women, they just, we just communicate differently. And men have three different needs in a relationship. And so do women? And a lot of times when I ask a guy, like, do you know your wife's three needs in the relationship? And they're like, they'll kind of like, well, she needs to be loved, trust. And then they're thinking about it. And I'm like, if you don't know what the needs are, if you don't know what the target is, how are you supposed to hit it, right? A woman needs to feel seen, she needs to feel heard, and she needs to feel safe. Those are the three needs that she needs from a man. So a lot of times in communication, we're just kind of naturally not the best

communicators because, like, let's just take this circle of dudes for a second, right? If I open up to any of you guys just in a conversation, and I'm like, man, me and Jessica, like, we're just not communicating very well right now, not having sex right now. Like, I don't know what's wrong. And if you were to be like, man, that sounds really tough, I'd be like, well, what do you all think I should do about that? Right? Like, tell me what to do, right? And, but that is the biggest difference because what a guy will do is we'll try to solve problems. We want to fix because we feel that that is the best way to serve, to take away pain and to give relief, right? But that's actually not what she needs. She just needs to be heard. She needs to be seen. But let me talk about the safety thing really quickly, too. The safety thing is the biggest button. of the mall. Think of safety is like the foundation of the house when it comes to a relationship. Safety, the way I describe it is think of a giant oak tree. And that oak tree is safety. But there's several branches. So a woman needs to feel emotionally safe. She needs to feel physically safe.

She needs to feel physically safe. She needs to feel safe that you're not going to lose your mind on the kids. So when she sees us lose our patients on the kids that triggers her safety. And then what a woman does is when those needs are compromised, that's when she gets resentful. That's when she starts to disconnect. That's when she starts to retreat. And a guy's like, what the heck is going on? I don't understand this. And this is where guys are like, I don't understand what she's doing.

I'm doing all this stuff, but she's just not coming along. But usually it's the needs. What are the men's needs? Men's needs are to feel respected, appreciated, and we need physical affection. And when the woman's not getting her needs met, she's not so good at giving her her man what he needs and they just butt heads and it's vice versa too so a woman who's not fulfilling a man's need will also build up resentment it's crazy yesterday i had a situation where the respect thing for me and the protective thing for my wife um clash clash and overlapped it was wild what have like

katrina and i maybe get into a fight like this once a year we rarely ever and uh we had a moment yesterday where high pressure moment with work. It was timely. I need to get something executed. It's the department that she runs. I'm calling her to get it done right away. She gets on the phone. I don't realize she's with my son at a field trip doing something.

And words were exchanged in a way where I wasn't sensitive, definitely in a way that she was heightened. And then we got into it and ended up in this big blowup. And it's like, both of us were like, what is going on? This is so not us. And we made up for the night. And then the next day, and this was two days ago, she she sought counseling from her mom and her mom's asked her about her day and she starts telling her the story

and she's like yeah we were at this field trip and there was this really kind of creepy guy that had this long lens camera and he was taking photographs of the kids and she goes and I was by myself with max and I saw that it was really weird and she goes I was in this moment where I was like I wanted to go right up to him and find out what the F was going on and she goes and it's been weighing on me like crazy I don't I don't know what to do. And she goes, and I was in this situation where I couldn't leave my son in this super busy place to go address this guy that she was fearful of what he was doing. And so she's like, I feel like I get this is like, this is like midnight one in the morning.

We're talking about this. And she's like, I feel like I need to write a letter to the school. And so she gets up, she writes a letter to school. First thing in the morning, the teacher goes, yes, we saw it. In fact, somebody pulled him over to security. They made him delete all his phones. And it was super like a totally inappropriate thing that was going on. And she goes,

That was three minutes before the phone call that I received from you. I don't know any of that stuff what's happening. I'm also in a pressure situation where we have this ad that's about to run. Something went wrong. We have to change it. It's her department that's doing it. So I'm calling her. I need you to fix this right away.

And so that's how that all happened. So you have this situation. And then I didn't like the way she responded to me when I'm needing something that's related to work. So here I am wanting my respect of like, hey, when I tell you to do this, this is your department, you need to execute this. I can't have you tell me not now or this or that. And so I get really frustrated with that.

She's obviously in a situation where she doesn't feel protected and safe because I'm not there. In that situation, I'm there. I go be lying straight to the guy while she stays with our son. And I go take the camera out of his hands and address it myself where that couldn't happen. So it was so wild to see the point you're making right now and how when both of those could be off what it could cause. And for Katrina and I to have an argument like that that never escalates to that level was so weird that remember both of us going like, man, that is. not like us. Like, I mean, and I'm like, how is everything else in your day? I'm fine. I wasn't even, I wasn't even that big of a deal, but it was a pressure moment. I did feel disrespected. And just like her,

it wasn't that big of a deal, the situation, but she did feel unsafe. And it was in that situation. It was like wild, how something like that can overlap and how then it could turn into this such a big issue when really it wasn't. All it took was some communication working through that understanding what each person was going through. And then obviously fine afterwards. but kind of crazy that you're talking about this today. This just was two days ago when this happened. And that's how that all unfolded. So it was a trip.

And it was her mother who really helped her unpacked that and see that. And that was when she, because she didn't bring it to me until after the fact what had happened. And she's like, honey, do you not see how you were feeling in that moment? Who do you feel most safe with? She's like, oh, with Adam. And she's like, where was he? Oh, he wasn't there.

So super trippy how not understanding how important those two things are the two sexes and how it could lead to something like that. Had we not had, you know, the communication, she didn't have her mother to kind of counts her. That could have been something that festered for a while or continued to be resentment afterwards and anger. But luckily, we were able to distill it down to those two very unique situations happening at the exact same time randomly to cause something that would normally never happen in our relationship. You had mentioned in those different segments of the book, you mentioned leadership as it applies to men. And I've heard this many, many times that the man's role is to lead, but that could also be interpreted as the man initiates.

And so do you see how sometimes you got a couple that are talking about their issues or guys coming to you? And you're like, your wife needs to feel seen, heard, and safe. And he's like, yeah, but she's not respecting me. She's not appreciating me. She's not appreciating me. and she's not giving me physical affection. And they get stuck in the stalemate of, you go first. You go first. You mentioned leadership. Is it important than the man realize that he's the initiator and that she typically responds?

And if the woman initiates, that doesn't typically work as well or they're less likely to. That's a great question. So I think that there's what I've noticed, and I'm sure you guys have probably noticed just in maybe other couples that you hang out with or just other couples that you know, a lot of times. I mean, you guys probably know the book, No more Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover. No, I've never heard of it. Oh, you haven't heard of that book?

No. It is a classic read for men. It's one of those books that will educate the hell out of you on like your nice guy tendencies and I'll explain what I'm talking about. It'll piss you off at the same time. You're like, fuck, that's me. You know, it's like, but basically what Robert Glover talks about in that book is what a nice guy does is he has what he calls these covert contracts.

So like a guy will be like, well, if I fulfill her needs, she'll fulfill my right and people do that all the time right and here's the thing that is expected in a relationship but a guy will do things and there's a whole psychology behind this a guy will do things with an agenda so like for instance he'll be like man like I really really want to get back of my wife's good graces again I want intimacy again I want to have sex again so he'll do the dishes and he'll clean the bathroom and he'll take out the trash like I used to do this because It's so bad. I used to do the dishes kind of loud.

So she hears me over here. You take out the trash. You actually hit the wall. I'll be like, oh, I'm just taking this heavy bag outside. Hopefully she sees it. But I'll tell you,

that's a really common thing for guys that they want to give because they're expecting. And then when that expectation is not fulfilled, here's the other thing, too. She usually doesn't know about it because he's like, well, if I do X, Y, Z, then I'll get this.

And then when we don't, we get pissed. Right. Get resentful. So that's like the night. nice guy thing. But I think what if you really look at what a nice guy does, and there's a lot of us out there, Ryan Mickler, I know you guys know, he talks about this a lot as well. A nice guy will be like, where do you want, she'll be like, where do you want to go to dinner, wherever you

want to go? Yeah. Right. What are we doing with the kids this weekend? Like, that's what we ask is men. Like, what's going on this weekend? Like, so it's like guys are asking because we kind of view, like, I'm not saying that this is, this is a bad thing, but it's also a very normal thing in relationships, unfortunately. So a guy will usually look at his wife, like she kind of calls the shots for the family. She kind of like is the manager of all the activities and everything going on. She's like the end all be all. Plus like he always wants to, he kind of wants to be a yes man, right? Because he wants to be in his wife's good graces. And here's the bottom line. A woman is not attracted to that. A woman wants a kind man. She wants a compassionate man, empathetic man, but she

also wants a man to lead. And I think a man can lead, not necessarily by being domineering, controlling, calling the shots, but also, like, so for instance, here's a perfect example. I used to be that guy to be like, you know, hey, do you want to go out this Friday? Well, yeah, where do you want to go? We'll go anywhere you want to go. What time you want to be ready. And now I'm just like, hey, Friday night, be ready by six. Kids already got a babysitter. Where are we going? You'll find out. Don't worry about it. Dress coat is sexy. Just be You're having sex that night. Yeah.

Well, I think, and a woman likes that. You know, she really, really does. She wants to be led, courted, and that type of thing. Yeah, that's a great, very good point. So is one of the things you help these men with is in that right there? It is. It is. And take that leadership.

Is being the initiator. The thing that I always warn men, though, when I first start to work with them is your wife will not come along for the ride in the beginning of this. She'll actually resist it. Because here's what usually happens. dynamic of marriage and the relationship. Well, they want to see if it's real. I'm sure they're like, let's see if this sticks. Exactly. They're looking for that consistency. So usually what I've seen, so like,

there's one client that I have. He's been married for 14 years and he's had this pattern of like, all right, I'm going to do things different. And he'll do things different for about a week or two. And then he goes back to old habits. And this has pissed his wife off because it really compromises that last need of safety because of a guy who's, unstable, which is trust. So if she sees consistency over time, that makes her feel more safe. That makes her feel like, well, okay, I can trust him, right? So usually in the beginning, like when a guy comes to my table, he's tried to change several times. And his wife is just like over it. And she's like, you have told me you're going to do things different and you do it for a couple weeks. And then she gets let down again. So the thing that I always warn guys is like, she's going to be very resistant at first. She probably, probably, probably even abrasive, you know, so be ready for that. And that always happens. And then little by little, over time, we'll start to recover the relationship. One other quick example here, I took on a client about nine months ago, and he was right in the midst of a divorce. Like two-year-old kid,

only child, they were married for five years, moved out, inked divorce papers. Then he started going to work. And I got to be honest, man. I was like, there's no way. I even told guy. I was like, there, no promises, man. I doubt we'll recover this relationship, but I'll coach you to just be better. They just moved back in last week. Wow. Wow. Completely recovered the relationship. I was blown away, but it took nine months, you know, of consistency. Let's talk about some of these tactical strategies. And I love that you drew the parallel to us and our expertise and profession with getting people fit and all this acquired knowledge, right? And through those years of helping so many people,

we've learned that you don't just map out the perfect diet and the routine and tell we have all the X's and O's to get somebody shredded. Okay. Whatever goal you have, I have the answers for you. But we've learned over time, like you don't want to overwhelm somebody with all that. If you want them to be successful,

we're trying to create new behaviors and new things. And so we've learned like, just go do this. And you'd give them one. And so there's very tactical things that we've learned over decades of training so many people of like how to step them to this overall get them into these overall behavioral change. I imagine that's similar in the work that you do. So give me some very tactical things that I come to you like this, this, this dad whose marriage is in shambles, all the things

I'm suffering, you know, I'm like the character that you described where you started. What are some like tactical things that you get me to start to do right out the gates versus saying like, oh, you need to do this, this, this, I'm sure you don't do that. No, so everything I teach is tactical. But I'm going to quote, do you guys know who Keith Yaki is from Married Game? No, we're losing this game, dude. I have all kinds of intros for you guys. Name dropping all kinds of names we don't know.

Keith Yacky, I'm going to answer your question, but I want to talk about the elements of attraction that I think a lot of guys probably aren't aware of. So Keith Yaki, he used to be a coach of mine. He coached me for probably nine months, and he runs a platform called Married Game. and he basically helps men attract their wives back. And he taught me this principle.

It's called the five P's of attraction. So the first P is partner. So think about this. Your wife wants a partner. She wants a teammate. She wants someone to do life with who's going to support her, who's going to lead her, and all that. And sometimes we're just not taught how to be partners.

Like, as you said, a lot of us don't have the blueprint. You know, we didn't have the example growing up. So we're just, we're winging it. and we're just not probably doing the best job. Then there's parent. That's the second one. Parent, think of it like this. You know, Jessica, Katrina, like, our wives, like, carried our kids for like nine months, right?

And being, you know, being pregnant, it kind of destroys your body. I mean, and their mama bear with those kids. So what they want to see is they want to see a compassionate, playful, patient, dad, because nothing will compromise a woman's trust more than a guy who's unpredictable with our kids. So she wants to see that playful dad. Like you guys obviously know who Jim Gaffkin is, the comedian. When he had the Jim Gaffkin show, they were advertising it. There was these like four beautiful women coming out of a store in New York.

And they were just like, you could tell they're like looking at something. And they're just like, oh my God, what is that? And they're just like hypnotized. And then it goes to Jim Gaffin, you know, like this pale, overweight guy with five kids. And he's just with his kids being playful. like doing this, but there's some truth to that. You know, it's a very appealing thing when a man is a good dad, you know, and it's very attractive. And then there's, then there's producer.

Producer is a woman needs to feel financially safe. Unfortunately, women are not attracted to a broke guy who can't pay bills. You don't have to have nine figures in the bank, but a woman wants a man who can pay bills and then a little more. And a lot of guys, well, what's that little more? the little more is like if you know junior needs a new pair of tennis shoes for 200 bucks she's not calling you panicking like hey we need to get new pair of shoes are we good so she needs to feel that then there is power power is confidence power is not i'm not domineering i'm not controlling but i'm confident right i'm a confident man so those those are the elements of attraction and

to answer your question one of the first things that i'll teach a guy is how to communicate with his wife, especially when she's venting, whether positive or negative, because what a guy usually wants to do is he wants to come in and fix something that's negative. And that usually just shuts down his wife. She doesn't feel heard. She doesn't feel listened to because all she's thinking is, all you're thinking about is telling me how to fix this. You're not even listening to me. So let's take a negative emotion. So if I come home and I'm like, hey, so how was your day? And she's like, oh my God, today was terrible. We got a medical bill in the mail for, you know, your knee surgery a few months ago. It's $3,000. Colton spilled milk all over the kitchen. Glass was everywhere. And then

Ethan didn't get accepted into the paramedic program. And normally, like, I would try to tamp that down and be like, well, that's not that big a deal. I mean, we got the money. We'll pay it. And, you know, spill milk cleans up. You know what? There's going to be another window of opportunity for Ethan. Don't worry about it. And that just shuts her down. But what I'm trying to do as a man is just take away her pain. Instead, if it's that negative emotion, I'll validate it. Be like, like, geez, man. Like, Jessica, that sounds like a really frustrating day. Tell me more about that. Like, who wouldn't be upset with a day like that? Tell me more about that. So what I've just done is I've globalized her negative emotion. So I put the spotlight on the day, not on her. I don't know

if you guys noticed, but I didn't say, man, you sound really frustrated. Because as soon as you say, you sound frustrated, it feels accusatory and defenses go up. But if you say that sounds frustrating. That's good advice. I think anybody would be frustrated. Anybody be frustrated. And then when you say, tell me more, that's an invite for talk to me. Right? And the more she's talking, the better, right? Even if you're not solving anything because a woman is after one thing.

She's not after solutions. She's after connection. And if we can do that, it's so much better. Now, if she's feeling a positive emotion, you want to localize that and put the word you in it. So if she has an awesome day, you'd be like, man, you must feel so amazing. Tell me more about it. Because people love to own their positive emotions,

especially in an intimate relationship. And you talk about being seen and heard when you emotionally validate a woman, whether it's a positive emotion or a negative, man, you become the most interesting and attractive guy in the room. By the way, reverse that.

And it would go, right, if I personalize the negative and I globalize the positive, like thinking of the global, I had a great day. Well, of course, anybody would have a great day. Immediate, like, it's the opposite. It doesn't want.

What's interesting about this, and women, I think, you know, their side, they have to figure this out as well. We just don't communicate the same. We don't. Because if you came, if I came to you or you come to me, hey, Sal, how's your day going? And I told you all that stuff. And then you replied, man, that sounds terrible. Tell me more.

Like, get out of here. I don't want to hear that. I don't want to hear that for you. You know, because that's not how we communicate at all. If I come to you, I want to hear a solution if I'm saying anything to you at all. Yeah. So is this a typical starting point for, or the first. like tactical thing you have to do. And I imagine like there's a lot of like, okay, just go focus

on that and then waiting to hear back their situations where they had that conversation. And because there is a bit of a, you know, like you have to be, you have to be aware of it. This is a positive conversation or this is a negative one and then globalized versus I think, I would imagine that a lot of guys, it takes a little bit of time to learn that skill. Yeah. Right? Because it doesn't come natural to us. And so not only are you learning to communicate differently, but then also listen better on like, oh, this is one of those times where I don't want to say you. I don't want to make that mistake. And so is it take guys a while? Do you find yourself

having that conversation, them coming back and be like, damn it. I did this. Yeah, when they first get started, they do. I mean, like, when I'm coaching a guy, especially over Zoom, I'm like literally drawing this. I'm writing this stuff out. I'm like, okay, if it's a negative emotion, this is what you do. If it's a positive emotion, this is what you do. Like, no kidding. He runs on his hand. Which we appreciate, right? That's what I want for you. Give me the plan. Give me the plan. Give me the thing to do. Yeah. That's so great.

That's great. You had mentioned loneliness earlier. I found this to be incredibly valuable that, first off, I have my business partners here, which are incredible. And then I have a men's group that I started. It's a religious one, but we all get together and we work with each other. And everybody finds so much value in it. And I don't think, I think generally speaking, just looking at the data, men don't have

enough good men around them that they could work with and talk with. Because if I'm around men that I respect, they can tell me things that other people can't. I can hear things from how important is that for men to be successful in life to have that group of guys that, no, not knuckleheads, but people actually trust and respect that they could bounce things off of. I think that's the difference between the light and the darkness, to be honest. Ed Milette wrote a book, The Power of One More, and he wrote a whole chapter of, you know, you're three to five people in your circle, like, you know, so your guys and your

faith-based group. I mean, that's gold, right? I mean, to have men like that in your life, to speak into your life like that, your group is your force multiplier. So if you have a group of friends like Lance does, right, who's speaking negativity and like, hey, man, just get over, put your head down, man, up, grow a set of balls. Like, we all got these problems. Like, just do it. Versus, like, I guarantee, like, when you're in that faith-based conversation and a guy might open up about his marriage or he might open up about something, I guarantee, like, the men who are in your circle, probably just pour into that man. You know, give him, you know, the blind spots that he might not be seeing.

He's going to speak truth into him. He's probably going to be empathetic, going to meet him where he's at. All those different things is so important for a dude. I have a good example of that. I actually have a buddy who, he was struggling in his marriage, and he was going to a friend of his venting to him. And this friend of his is like, oh, she's, you know, she's dumb. She doesn't deserve you.

man, I can't believe she acted that way and this, that, and the other. And I seen him and I could tell something was bothering me and I asked him. He tells me, and I know the guy that he asked. I'm like, really, you asked that guy? Like, that's the guy that he's in his mid-40s, never married, has no kids, like, you know, you should probably ask a guy that

you respect in that realm. And so we started talking and he talked to my other buddy. And the device was totally different. The advice was not like, and I think that's a good gauge. Like, if you come to your buddy or somebody with some of your challenges and if like, yeah, dude you should leave her or you should go whatever it's like maybe I should check out you know talk to

another guy that I respect I think that's really difficult for a lot of men at least I know in my 20s this was a big challenge for me was I was still attached to a lot of my like high school buddies and when it's tough when you build a bond going especially in a case like where my had the childhood I had and I create I very much so relate to the um what's the goodwill hunting you know scenario like I had my the brotherhood that I had built with these. The loyalty. Yeah, the loyalty. My family.

I mean, I got the loyalty tattered on the side of my ribcage. Like that's how, like that was, I so identify with that. And so, you know, I, I knew the, you're the average of the five guys. I know how important, but I couldn't see past that bond that I had because I almost considered them family. And it's like, there's no way. I would cut that out. But when I actually looked at kind of where everyone's lives were at and asked myself,

is that where I want to be, say, you know, down the road. and it was an easy answer. No, I don't want to be an average of that 5. And so it was really difficult for me to do that. And I think a lot of times you think that maybe when you start to finally realize it, which is already a challenge in itself, then you go through another thing where it's like, I got to go break up with these guys. No, seriously.

I mean, because when you hear that advice, they're like, you need to change your circle of 5. And it's like, well, you know, what am I to do? Tell Justin, sorry, we don't hang out no more on Sundays or like, what's this going to be like? Now, I'll tell you the advice I give to younger guys that asked me this and what I'd end up doing is instead of making it into like I have to break up with these guys, I just began filling my time with with better men, with men that, like, that were seeking growth, that were doing the things in life that I wanted to, that I admired as fathers or leaders. And then it just became, it became less about I need to break up with these, these guys and more of that I'm busy doing all these other things. Do you have that a lot? is that common? How hard is that for guys sometimes? I don't even advise that. Yeah. That's a great point. So my circle of friends was very similar to yours, you know, and probably all of us. Like when we're in

high school, college, like we all have that commonality. We're all away from home in college. Like, we all have that in common. We all go to the same school. We're probably studying similar stuff. So we have common ground with people. And normally, like our younger friends, like in college in high school, the things that we had in common, the, you know, the goofball things we do and that kind of thing, like bust each other's chops. Like that's the dynamic that usually carries into adulthood. But once we get into adulthood and we're family men, we need, we need a different type of, we need complimentary men in our life to speak into us.

So like I still am friends with some of the guys that I went to high school and college with, we don't have conversations like this. But whenever I feel like, be like, hey, man, this Monday night football, you guys want to go out and grab dinner and a few beers, watch the game and bust each other's chops. Like, that's still fun, you know, every now and again. But if I want to have a serious conversation about something going on in my world, whether it's my kids, my faith, my marriage or whatever, those are not the guys that I'm probably going to spend time with. I'm probably going to call up one of the, like, I'm in a Bible study myself, you know, and I'm like, I'm going to go to those guys for stuff like that. I probably won't go to the other guys.

I think it's so tough, though, because we also, there's also a dangerous part of that friend circle that I realize later that I realize, is typically the things that bond you at that age are a lot of, like, trauma. insecurity stuff. We share similar insecurities. We went through the same bullshit growing up. And so we bond. And boy, unless you get lucky and those four guys are very growth-minded, working on those insecurities and traumas and grow out of it, a lot of them get stuck in that. And it's really easy to get pulled back because there's that relatability.

And you're still, I mean, because all of us that have these insecurities and traumas when we were little like, they don't just go away. Like, they're still there. you learn to see it coming or how to work with it or deal with it or grow from it. But they never go away. It's always, it's part of your history. So if you stay connected too much to that group that you, you know, like I would do, justify the loyalty and the love that I have for them and not realize that a big part of the bond

has a lot to do with this trauma and insecurity that went through. It can be crippling, man. It can keep a man in the same spot for decades if he doesn't figure that out. Oh, I agree. What's interesting? Oh, yeah, I was just going to say we get a lot of people kind of calling in that are new dads. And they're kind of, they're looking for advice or just ways to better, you know, get ahead of it, so to speak. And, you know, what they can, obviously the communication part, what you're bringing up with your wife is, you know, all that leading into it.

It's going to be super important. But what are like the few things that you want to convey to somebody like that, that, you know, they're anticipating a, newborn and what to kind of expect and how to kind of wrap their head around it. So what I always tell my new dads, and this usually shocks them because they're like, well, you know, what do I do when this kid comes? I was like, you're married first and you're a parent second. And they're like, what? And, you know, because that can be triggering for some people. And I was like, the biggest mistake that a new dad will make and a new mom is they will slide that marriage on the back burner of the stuff. Yeah. And then the kids become that front

burner. And then little by little, that's when that drift starts to kind of set in. Little by little, it just starts to chip away at that connection in their marriage. So I always tell a guy, I'm like, hey, man, you might be a new dad, but date nights are still a big deal, man. You know, make sure that you are still connecting with your wife every single day, right? And you got to have other conversations besides this baby. It's got to be about you guys as well. So I think knowing that, like, this is still your first priority. Like, obviously, you got this dependent baby, you know, that you got to take care of. The other thing that I think is really important to, and this is where I think a lot of young couples get a little spun up, is you've got to identify who does what. And I know that that is not the sexiest conversation.

No. That's not a fun one. Make it clear. But you got to make it clear because what happens is once this kid comes in, suddenly there's expectations that both people have. And they're not usually sharing them and they're not being fulfilled. And then that's when resentment sets in. And so, like, getting those roles extremely right is so critical. So, like, for instance, like, my wife was like, hey, I'm going to nurse.

So I'm just going to take the night shift. You're working, so I'll take the night shift. So she always got up. And I always, I rarely did. But that was what she, that's what we agreed on. Another thing, too, is like, so, like, for instance, when we had a new kid and, like, I'll be like, well, tell you what, I will do all the grocery shopping. right so like just i i know it's like the simplest things and you're thinking like that how does that

how does that go move the needle but like little tiny things like that who's going to be cooking who's going to be cleaning this who's going to be getting up in the middle of night who's going to be taking the kid to daycare if they're going to do that all these different things because those things just stack on top of each other and before long you get you have a couple that is just infuriated with i think those are those are huge because i think they're a bit insidious because they you think of them as so small but then i think what it does is it builds resentment. Of course. I remember this happened in Katrina and I's relationship. For the most part, I'd say we fall into a pretty traditional house. But there's something that we learned about our

characteristics. I am a bit OCD with like how I like things clean. She could care less. You know what I'm saying? It's like she's not messy, but she also, it's not a big deal. If the dishes don't get done right then, they'll get done tomorrow morning or whatever like that. That will drive me absolutely crazy. And so when we, before we had a kid, you know, she'd take care of it. When she'd take care of it, whatever. She knew that I cared about that. But it wasn't that big of it. Well, when we had a kid, that became more difficult. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so, so that becomes more difficult for to execute that. And it becomes bigger problem for me as more days stack up and more times consistently of it not getting in. And it's like, I found myself getting so frustrated. And I remember

having this epiphany of like, if I care so much more about that, why am I, why am I, why am I not just taking care of it. She doesn't care about as much as I do. I care more. So why don't I just assert myself and do that? Normally when the perfect time is right after we get done with dinner anyways, where she takes my son up to go take his bath and read to him. And originally, I would start to be kind of a part of that and feel like we both need to do all that together. But then the dishes wouldn't get done. And then I'd have resentment because it wasn't get done. It was just like, wait a second, we could totally divide and conquer in this situation. And it became this like, it made so much more peace in the house. It made me happier, made her.

her happier. She loved coming down from, you know, the bath and the kitchen's already clean. But it's funny how something like that just, it's so little. But it, like you said, it stacks. And it would be, it would be something that wouldn't, it wouldn't be an immediate issue. It would be this low level kind of resentment building of like, you know, how many days in a row am I have to look at this dirty kitchen and I'm frustrated. And meanwhile, I'm sure she's having a little resentment of me, like, how much is he going to continue to make me feel bad when I'm doing all these things for our kids? And it's so crazy how solving that little bit, whether it's through communication or stepping up. And all of a sudden, that's never been a problem in the relationship. It's the assumptions, right? A lot of times you think it's just

going to take care of itself. But yeah, clarity of roles and just what exactly you're going to do. Yeah, that's huge. Or we'll figure it out as we go along. There's an interesting data that I saw a long time ago and I've confirmed it now looking at more data, which connects the how well a mother can mother is very closely connected to how well she feels taken care of by her husband. been or the father. So for new dads, how well you are with her will make a huge impact on how well she is with the kids. How do they measure that? That's interesting. So moms with in bad relationships or with absent fathers versus dads with absent relations, whatever, it's a much bigger impact on the mom than it is on the father's. It's a big responsibility. Like take care of

your wife. Then she's a better mom. What has what has coaching all these men taught you? Oh, man. that I can coach and sometimes I can't do it. Well, that's a coach. A lot of times I can't do it. I mean, we say that all the time about you, you know, I'm a way better trainer than I am. You ever see yourself in a situation? You're like, what would I tell?

I'm uncoachable. Oh, yeah. Like, only like every day. Yeah. Even my kids, they're like, oh, yeah. Dad edge, huh? Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, thanks, man.

They're at that teenage age now, too. Yeah. Do you, how, so I want to talk about some modern challenges that weren't necessarily. That's a huge challenge is when we were maybe younger that now seemed to have huge impacts on men. Yeah, how much does the phone make an issue with friendships? Yeah, so phone, pornography, you know, video games. Like, are these having a negative impact on a man's ability to, you know, lead, be a husband, a father?

So the porn and video games for the dads or for the kids? Yeah, let's talk about men. I mean, all the above, to be honest. Yeah. So, you know, I look at just all that stuff, you know, alcohol, video games. I think we all kind of do. Alcohol, video games, drugs, you know, like, whatever it is for your phone, it's usually a comfort issue.

And I'm uncomfortable and I want to go do something to distract, whether that's porn, whether it's video games, death scrolling on your phone, looking for the next political tweet, you know, that pisses you off, that kind of thing. So, yeah, I mean, men are, you know, and, women like all of us adults like we we have issues with that stuff right but i think if you ask most parents we're like man i really don't want my kid like on their phone just scrolling i don't want my kid on video games for like nine hours like stuff like that so in order to do that like we in the book i talk one of the tenets of leadership is the best lessons are caught not taught so um i don't

i don't look at porn i haven't for years um i'm not so great with my phone i'll be the first to admit that one like I really need to be better about that video games are not my thing I don't drink I don't I don't do drugs like it's just not my thing I do like fitness is kind of like my outlet but I think for men to have an outlet you know is really freaking important man like they've got to have self-care they've got to have something that that they can that can anchor their their stress I think that's really important but I think for men you know the porn thing I had this client, man. Like, you know, and I used to, like, porn was my vice forever.

And I started, I did a 90-day challenge just to see if, you know, like, let me do away with this for 90 days and see what happens. I couldn't believe some of the things that I experienced. So, like, I found myself way more productive in the workplace. I found myself way more intentional with my kids. Intimacy with my wife. And this one surprised me. I was like, everyone says sex gets better. without porn. And I'm like, I don't know if that's true. It is insanely true. Like, it's insanely true.

So I think that that's good news. Like some of these vices that are out there, getting away from them, you're going to reap some tremendous benefits. But, you know, so you've got to be, you know, I had this client, like I said one time where, you know, most guys, I think don't really view porn as something that's harmful, right? It's like, I mean, I used to justify it as like, well, I don't want to bother her with my, you know, high drive. So, you know, give her a break. But like, I had this client once who went into the bathroom, had his phone on, and he had no idea that it was hooked to the Bluetooth speaker in his living room. He had a nine-year-old daughter, seven-year-old daughter, five-year-old son, and the porn just came blaring through the speaker. He had no idea.

He came out, and his wife was like, do you have any idea what just happened? And he was like, what are you talking about? She was like, we heard everything that you were watching. I had to turn the speaker off. Your kids heard everything. Oh, God. And I was like, so that, mortified. That guy was like, so like, I think that that's, I mean, while that that's a slip-up, but his kids will never forget that. His wife will never forget that. He will never forget that.

So I think that's one of the things that's not usually on a guy's radar of like, well, what if my kids check out my browser? What if my kids pick up my phone and they see the last thing that I looked at? What if it's hooked up to a Bluetooth speaker and I didn't know it? You know, it's like, how do we have those conversations about porn with our kids if we get caught? Yeah. You know? I feel like that one is easier conversation than probably the,

just overall addiction to cell phone and maybe even gaming. Because I think a lot of people would use the justification of gaming as their outlet. Yeah. A lot of guys that maybe don't work out or don't play sports or don't do that, they're going to go like, well, that's my outlet, man. I mean, I have buddies that that's what they would. That's their time when they get to kids in bed. It's like, this is what I do, you know, like that.

And so how do you handle that? And or is it much of a problem? Do you think that in moderation, it's not that big of a deal? or do you find that it does cause problems in relationships more so than not? That's a great question. I think anything in moderation is pretty okay. So if you got a buddy who's like getting on video games and it's really not interfering with a whole lot of stuff, then that's fine. The problem is that, I mean, you guys know this is probably better than anybody.

Human beings just have a really big problem usually with moderation. You know, we especially things that were made to be addictive. Right. Things that bring us comfort, joy, happiness, those types of things or distraction. like we we have a tendency to dive into that and it's it's kind of it's kind of sneaky how much we do it I think that's the key right there is to because that's I think that's a great way to position it because I agree I think that if you were a video game guy and you know once a weekend you it's when you and your best friends link up online and it's your chance and it's kind of killing it's also building the

relationships with close friends but you also being honest with yourself because it's rarely that most the guys I know that game, it's like, they really like, oh yeah, it's a part of life. It's like every day. I mean, it was for me. When in my 20s, it was a every day after work, couldn't wait to get home to link up with my buddy and we would play for two, three, four,

sometimes five hours into the night. And then on weekends, you know, we'd plan a whole day around getting together and running it on all three TVs. So it wasn't like, oh, I kind of did it in moderation. It was like a part of my life. And so I think being honest with yourself, it is like,

is this an addiction or is this something that I occasionally do with my buddies is the right way to position. Larry, what are the characteristics of men who tend to be more successful when they're tackling this issue versus men that struggle more? Do you see, like when you talk to a client, can you tell right away? Are you like, okay, we have more hope with this guy just because of these particular characteristics? So I think, so characteristics like for guys that I've seen be successful, number one, they're coachable. so they they they they just they're not defensive right out the gates they're not defensive they're coachable you know they they really take feedback well so i think that's one thing um they're they're they're an executor so they implement right because i hold my guy we hold our guys accountable you got

to execute you got to implement if you're not doing that this none of this is going to go anywhere but i also think too that a guy needs to have patience patience with himself and patience with whatever situation he's, you know, dealing with. Unfortunately, a lot of times, it's, it's not unfortunate, but like, I always tell guys, if I, if you can, if I can get to you six months before you get to me, we'll usually have a better shot at whatever you're trying to tackle. Because usually what a guy will do is he will wait until there is an absolute crisis. You're a last resort. Yeah. Like, hey, my wife just rolled over this morning and told me she don't want to be married to me anymore. I'm like, I wish we would have talked six months ago.

Yeah. Because statistics show that if a woman says, I don't want to be married to you anymore, I don't know if I love you anymore, I don't want to be intimate with you. She's already. She's been thinking that for two years. That's a long time. Yeah. And when she says it out loud, usually her mind is already made up. But you can, believe it or not, you can still recover. I mean, like my one client did. But usually if I can tell a guy, if you can take action sooner rather than later later, so if you see like these symptoms start to happen, do not ignore them. Like take action.

Do not wait until your wife doesn't want to be with you anymore. I heard a great analogy. Do you remember the movie, My Big Fat Greek Wedding? You remember that? There was a famous line in there where the mom says, yes, the husband is the head of the household, but the mother is the neck.

And wherever we turn the head, that's where. And the reason why he was illustrating this, he said, women or wives will present problems. Like, and they're real. Like, here's an issue. The kids are not getting enough attention or there's too much TV in the house or I notice you're on your phone too much or and they'll start and it's really just like let's talk about this issue and I don't know what the solution is but I want to talk about this. And I think a lot of times men are just like, man, it's not an issue. We're fine.

You're just whatever. Rather than kind of taking seriously like, okay, she has her finger on the pulse of things differently or maybe even more sensitively than I do. So let's take this seriously. Yeah, I think so whenever there's feedback like that, you know, I think. I think it's in our nature to want to get defensive or say that's not that big of a deal. Yeah. The thing that I always coach my guys to do, and like I said, everything that I coached to, I used to be terrible at.

And I still face plan to this day, you know, but is you've got to get really curious. Like curiosity instead of, usually what happens is as soon as something like that has said, it triggers defensiveness. Right. And the other person, it doesn't matter if it's the wife or the husband, they're not listening anymore and then we want to defend versus like we want to think about like all right let me think about this for a second is there truth to what she is saying or maybe there's a perspective here that I don't see right so I'll get really curious so if if Jess is like hey you know I've I've noticed you've

been on your phone a lot and you've been really distracted and I'd be like I think about that and be like there's probably some truth to that I'd be like well how's that impacting you like tell me what what are you seeing and what are you feeling or what do you think the kids are seeing and feeling and then she'll describe it. And I'll be like, damn, I didn't really see that. You know, I didn't really notice that. So, you know, the first question is, is there truth to that? And then get really curious and ask what the impact is.

Do you ever or have you ever had to either fire a client that hired you or tell a man that you married the wrong partner? Yeah. Both. Oh, both. Yeah. So I've worked with guys. you know so like for instance there was a woman or there there was a guy I was working with and his wife I mean she was she was done like done done he still wanted to work together and I told him

I was like there's going to be two outcomes to this you know coaching journey with me number one you'll get her back that's one or number two you're going to realize that wasn't the right one he wasn't the right one and by doing the work like usually the I've had a handful of clients be like she's not for me. And then once they, they realize that, once they go through their own personal growth, and they're at peace with it. Yeah. And that, but I'll tell you, man, there are, there have been times where like, I'll coach a guy and he's doing all the right things. And his wife is just being disrespectful, emasculating, just treat him like garbage. And in those times where I'm like, man, you've really have done everything here. Do you really want to be with this person? And then usually it's

their decision. And you're like, man, I don't know if I do. Like, you know, and they come to usually that realization, but it's their call. I mean, it's good to hear because I believe that that happens more often than I think we talk about where people get married and they married someone kind of similar to what I was telling you about friends, how they're formed, right? Through trauma and insecurities. You attach yourself to this partner who has similar insecurities or had similar traumas. And that person only exacerbates that thing that you haven't grown past.

And it's like it probably couldn't be a worse partnering for you. Although in the moment because maybe lust was involved and whatever else you thought that it was. Or a lot of times you see these explosions that then end up turning into like passionate sex, make up sex afterwards. And so they translate that into, oh, I deeply love this person. And when it's like, no, you have this very toxic relationship that you probably don't belong together. You know what's interesting about that. I looked at this data recently. And over 94% of divorces are labeled as no fault, which is like, there's no major thing that's happening.

There's no abuse. There's no, it's just like we just drifted apart. And then when you look at the data on husbands and wives that perform that are consistent with positive practices, I'll use one example. Couples that pray together every single night. This was a big one. I saw this study, there's a couple studies on this. divorce rate 1%. One percent.

Wow. So now I think what that points to is because you could get together for the wrong reasons, but who's the same person when they're 30 and 40 and 50 and 60? So there's a lot of skills and things that you can learn and work through as long as you're both willing because nobody's the same or you shouldn't be the same 10, 20, 30 years down the road. So just to give people some hope that there are some positive. And I know you have lots of stories of situations where it looked like it was done.

And now it's way better. Luckily, you know, knock on wood, most of the time when I'm working with a situation or a client, like from the get go, I'll be like, I think this will work out. And sometimes I'm like, this won't work out. I've been more pleasantly surprised by the times that it has worked out. And it's been a great experience. Going back to what you just said, though, one percent of couples, you know, that pray together, you know, will stay together. There was another study that was done, and it kind of goes in line with what couples do right

together. So everyone knows that the divorce rate's about 51 percent now. It's like literally half the people have walked down the aisle get divorced, right? They did a study about 10 years ago, thousands of couples because they wanted to study where are married couples at, the couples that actually stay together. What does that look like? And the study came back, that couples live in three different camps. Like, and they're divided up actually equally, which was shocking. So one third of couples that stay together can actually identify their marriage is like, this is working, this is great.

Like, I love her, she loves me. We've got a connection. It's awesome. We're great parents, all these different things. And there's a common denominator there that I'll get back to. Then there's the next one third. This is the stagnant, more settled camp. And it's a lot like Lance.

Like, they're not going anywhere, but they certainly don't have a connection. It's more like just high-level managerial things. We do life together. We're friends. But there's very little to no intimacy. They tolerate each other. Yeah, we tolerate each other, but we're not going anywhere. The last one-third, complete physical and emotional disconnect.

These are two strangers living underneath the exact same house, probably living two separate lives and there's two reasons they don't get divorced. Two financially devastating are the perception of we got to stay together for the kids. But the common denominator with that first camp is a lot like what you just said. both couples or one person will learn the skills of marriage. They learn communication. They learn intimacy. They learn how to align as parents, all these different things because they know we're

not going to leave our marriage to wing it. We're actually going to do this right. Do you encourage premarital counseling or men come to you before they get married before running into these issues? Hey, talk to me first. And let's get these skills set before, you know, you have to come to me when the, you know what has hit the fan. I really wish, man, I could get to more dudes before they get married. I feel like that would be a great offer. That would for you to have. Because I, and I, and I think,

I think a good time to do it. I feel, I do feel like this generation coming up is, is a more, the more open to this. I do. And I, and I think that if Moore would, uh, had, had somebody who could lead that where you could teach these skills before you walk down the aisle versus walking down the aisle and then trying to figure these skills after shit hits the fan. And again, just to offer some hope, one thing that men do pretty well, again, the data supports us is we can be pretty, if we're focused, we can be pretty productive in one direction. And I just don't think a lot of men, I know most men, before they get married, don't have any kind of coaching like that. They don't have a group. They don't have a, there's no training. It's like your training is media. Oh, that's what

marriage looks like or what my parents were like, which might not be the best example. So, I could only imagine how successful, how much more successful a couple would be if a man, you know, before he got married or he's engaged and he's, he's in a course or he's working with someone like you. It's like, all right, here's what you're going to encounter. Here's what it looks like. And here are the skills you need to develop and work on. So my wife and I, we did marriage coaching before we got married. And it was through our church. And it was six weeks long. We had another couple. They were in their 40s. They had four kids. And every time we went to their house, it was a new topic.

about marriage. So like one week we'd spend on parenting. The next one, it'd be sex. The next week it would be finances, you know, that type of stuff. And I remember being just 28 years old. And I'm like, I remember getting done with that prep. And I'm like, I feel like that wasn't enough. Like, and because what I realized during that prep is I was like, holy crap, I'm really not prepared at all. Like I had my assumptions and my perceptions and so did she. And they were off. Right. But those six weeks, we did get some alignment. But I mean, we both found ourselves like, man, this needs to be a little bit more robust if there's anything like this. Yeah, and I think a good group of male friends that are older than you

and experienced would probably do that for you. I think, yeah, people who are ahead of you in life, you know, it's kind of like what you were talking about. It's like the friends in the 20s. But, you know, I think if you want a good marriage, go talk to somebody who's got one. If you want to have a deeper faith, go talk to someone who's got a deep faith. You know, it's like, go, go talk to the people that are emulating the things that you want. That's awesome.

Well, I think, Larry, you're the guy to go build that. So we should come out with a premier course. And we're going to put that on you, guy. So by the next time you come here again, you better have that ready. I think it's a great idea. Well, Larry, I apologize because I have a hard stop. But, man, this was awesome. Great conversation.

Super valuable. You've got a great podcast. So people can find your podcast, the Dad Edge. And then where do they find you for your coaching? If you guys go to the Dadedge.com forward slash mastermind, that's the easiest spot for that. And then there's one other place I'd like to point the audience. If you go to the dad edge.com 4 slash legendary book, that's the pre-order landing page, even though you can still buy it on Amazon, but I'm giving away two courses that I created.

One is marriage prep. I'm kidding. One is called creating more patience. So teach a guy in 45 minutes how to just be a more patient, resilient father. And then the marriage skills, creating an extraordinary marriage through intimacy and attraction. There's 11 skills in there on how to. create a better marriage. So I'm giving those two courses away free if they buy the book for 28 bucks and I send it in the mail to them. That's awesome. Thank you so much. Appreciate the work that

you're doing, brother. Appreciate you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps aesthetic, nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now, plus other valuable

free resources at mind pumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is Mind Pump.