Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2759: Progressive Overload, the Secret to Building Muscle and Burning Fat.

Episode Date: December 27, 2025

Mind Pump Fit Tip: Progressive Overload, the Secret to Building Muscle and Burning Fat. (1:56) Buyer beware: Organic Planet Protein Powders. (26:27) The benefits of creatine for women and a PSA for buyers. (30:35) Getting away from the scale. (38:09) Dark tourism. (43:47) The Lost Labyrinth of Egypt. (48:22) AI ads. (52:17) Rock Recovery Scholarship. (58:01) Black Friday Winners! (59:08) #ListenerCoaching call #1 – My 16-year-old daughter challenged me to a pull-up and chin-up competition. What training tips or techniques do you recommend? (1:00:07) #ListenerCoaching call #2 – Ideas, suggestions, tips, on how to begin to make a difference in the health of this community of senior citizens. (1:06:00) #ListenerCoaching call #3 – Cardio for heart health and genetics & higher cholesterol. (1:16:32) #ListenerCoaching call #4 – Struggling to build muscle without falling back into old mental blocks. (1:33:38) Related Links/Products Mentioned Get Coached by Mind Pump, live! Visit https://www.mplivecaller.com Visit Organifi for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP at checkout for 20% off** Visit Rock Recovery Center for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** By filling out the form and scheduling your call, you'll also be entered for a chance to win a free 60-day scholarship at Rock Recovery Center, their premier treatment center in West Palm Beach, Florida. Don't wait—take the first step today. ** MAPS 15 Powerlift 50% off from Dec. 21-27th. Code DECEMBER50 at checkout. Mind Pump Store Mind Pump #1282: The #1 Key to Consistently Building Muscle & Strength (Avoid Plateaus!) Protein Powders and Shakes Contain High Levels of Lead Protein Study 2.0 - Clean Label Project Mind Pump #2530: Why All Women Should Take Creatine Creatine as a Novel Treatment for Depression in Females Using Methamphetamine: A Pilot Study Association between dietary intake of creatine and female reproductive health: Evidence from NHANES 2017–2020 Sal Di Stefano's Journey in Faith & Fitness – Mind Pump TV Massive rock layer beneath Bermuda may explain island's unusual elevation The Lost Labyrinth of Egypt: Mystery of a Forgotten Wonder Visit MASSZYMES by biOptimizers for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MINDPUMP10 at checkout for 10% off any order. ** The RIGHT WAY To Do More Pull-Ups (Make Them EASY!) Mind Pump #2312: Five Steps to Bounce Back From Overtraining Mind Pump #2652: How Undereating is Making You Fat & Unhealthy Mind Pump #2385: Five Reasons Why You Should Hire a Trainer Mind Pump #2560: How to Break Free from Destructive Body Image Issues Muscle Mommy Movement Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources People Mentioned Alex Hormozi (@hormozi) Instagram Black Friday Winners! Prize 1: In-Studio Day at Mind Pump HQ Kekoa Mathews Danielle Kepics Derek Jones Zachariah English Christine Sunga Kristin Scully Bethany Zuccaro Rich Stevens Kara Gootee Gena Manley Prize 2: One-Week Stay at the Park City Mind Pump House ($3,000 Value) Christian Wilson Mason Walker Prize 3: Three Months of One-on-One Personal Coaching ($1,890 Value) Jodie Dutra Jason Slater David Houchins Danielle Baker Jason Chacko Prize 4: Three Months of Concierge Coaching ($441 Value) Strati Oktay Lisa Campeau Vanessa West Elena Stan Andrea Powell Amy Venner Cassandra Tidwell Courtney Hessler James McNulty Sandy Habib  

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, callers called in, and we coached them on air. But this was after the intro, today's intro, 58 minutes long.

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All right, real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at Mind Pumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to Mindpumpstor.com. That's it. what the data shows consistently is what correlates to or causes muscle building muscle growth.

In fact, almost nothing correlates as closely to building muscle as progressive overload. In fact, some people say nothing causes building muscle. It's only progressive overload. We're going to break it down today, what it is, what it isn't, and what you need to think about when you get started with your training. And as you continue your training, by the way, this is also the key to fat loss through the muscle building process. get into it. Simple cells, when you overload progressively. Thank you. Thank you. The end.

This is inspired by the live caller. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, no, this is so, so actually I've seen, there's a lot of studies now on what causes, you know, what's the thing that builds muscle, right? So there was a lot of speculation for forever that it was damage. So you damage the muscle. The muscle heals and then it rebuilds or builds more to strengthen itself. Then it, it was like, well, the pump, the pump might stimulate muscle growth or maybe it's, you know, just strength to strength correlate to building. And what we find in the data is that the consistent application of progressively overloading the body, which can look like, it's basically more, doing more, lifting more, this is what causes muscle growth. But now, obviously, this can't be

the only thing because you can only progressively overload for so long. I mean, if this was the only thing that would build muscle, I mean, geez, I've been working out since I was 14. Yeah. You know, by the time I was 18, my workouts would have had to have been eight hours long. And that obviously isn't going to work. So I wanted to talk about this because there's a lot of confusion around it. And, you know, we had that caller who, you know, he likes to look at the data and he's like,

well, you know, I need to do all these exercises and I can't fit them all in an hour. And does that mean I'm not going to progress? It's like, no, it's not quite that black and white. Well, you have to understand, too, that there's so many, I mean, we did an episode a long time ago. I want to say it was the eight ways or nine other ways. You can progressively overload the body. And I think why people get so many people get stuck here is because the go-to move is just like sets, reps, weight. Just more.

Everything is more. More of this thing. It's like where if you've never done a windmill before and you, you've, pull out an exercise that you've been doing consistently like crazy and you put it in a windmill and even though maybe you're not doing as much weight, but because the movement is so new and it's challenging, you're progressively overloading the body in a sense. And I think that's the part that people don't understand. It's like that will... That's a great point. This will elicit adaptation and change. Even though you almost are reducing volume in a sense. So it's not as clear as

you just always keep adding volume. You keep adding weight. You keep adding reps all the time. other ways. What a great point, Adam, because there is specificity when it comes to strength. Totally. For example, like, you can be super strong at one exercise, do another exercise that you're not familiar with, even for the same body part. There's some carryover, but it's not 100%. And you'll suddenly find yourself much weaker. And because it's a new exercise, you are overloading the body in a different way. That's right. I see. Yeah. And if you get too strong by progressively overloading just that one movement or those few handful of movements, it's going to take away from any other potential variable movement that you introduce. Right. The other thing about this, too, is that oftentimes,

this is more often than not with the category of people we'll refer to as fitness fanatics. These are people that don't miss workouts. They're consistent. They've been working out for years, okay? If this is you, oftentimes what gets your body to progress is not doing more. It's often doing less. Because what tends to happen through consistent training over years and years and years and years, especially if you love it, I know this is me, right, is that I move away from what's optimal and I start going towards what I can tolerate. So my workouts get longer. I add more reps. I add more sets. I add more exercises. And I just really start to push the line and see how much my body can handle. And what happens when I pull back is I suddenly start to see results. It's too

much, too much for my body, which is why this isn't the end-all be-all. At some point, this stops working. And then if your life changes, if the context of your life changes, more stress, diet isn't as good, not as good asleep, well, backing off oftentimes gets the ball moving again. Well, I mean, I love to refer to the analogy you always give, which is the sun tan one. And the, like, let's say that you hadn't seen any sun. And then you just say, okay, I understand how to elicit change. I don't want to burn myself. I've heard what the guys have said.

So I'm going to go outside every day for 10 minutes. And every day for 10 minutes gets you this kind of nice, light, kind of brown, but you want more. I want more. The default thing that people do is go from 10 minutes to now, I'm going to stay an hour in there. Versus if they actually just did two to three more minutes every single day, they would get a little bit more, more tan. The same thing goes to applied for exercise. We go, okay, our body's now adapt to that. We built some muscle.

I want some more. And so we pile on when you probably could just do five more pounds or one more rep. And that's enough to progressively overload the body and send a signal to elicit change or adapt. And but what people do is they tend to overcorrect. They hit plateaus and then their answer is more. And it's not normally just a tad bit more. It's normally way more. Or a lot more.

And then they end up sunburning themselves. And then they're wondering why they're not getting any stronger. Or typically they start with too much. Or that. They don't even, yeah, they don't even give themselves a chance to really progressively overload when they're just trying to kind of catch up and heal. And I find that to be the case a lot of times with new, you know, beginners. It's like they just want to do all of it.

And then, you know, add, add, add from there when they haven't even like really gave their body a chance to progress, you know, from the beginning. Well, that's the birth of that saying that I've said, nauseam on this podcast, which is the goal is to do as little as possible to elicit the most amount of change. And I just, that has served not only me, but the clients that I've trained for so long of getting that through their heads.

The goal is to do as little as we possibly can to elicit some sort of change. Like as long as we do, if we just add a tiny bit and you get change from it, we are progressing. We're progressively overloading. That's all we want to do. And to your point, Justin,

most people already start way too high. And then when they hit a plateau, they just add more. And to your point, really actually that person will see more results if they reduce the volume and intensity. Yeah. So I'll break down the data. And again, the data isn't perfect because studies can only be so long, right?

So they can't do, you can't fund a study that's five years long where they're really following people and tracking them and being, you know, and controlling everything. It doesn't work that way. Typically they're, you know, two months, three months long, maybe a little longer with an expensive study. the sample sizes aren't very big. You're not going to have a three-month study with 200 people. Nobody funds that, right? So you've got 12 people. And they're typically college-aged males,

because those are the people that tend to sign up for studies, right? If you offer $25 a day to come into a study, the people send up. Broke risk-makers. Yeah, dude. So that's what makes it not perfect. But what the studies show is that as you progressively overload, you get better and better results.

But really when you look at all the studies, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to break down all this. There's a lot of studies on this. I'm going to break down all the consensus of all the studies. And then I'm going to apply experience. My experience and the experience of the trainers that have worked under me over the last 25 years in training lots and lots of different people. Okay.

And so here, this is going to make it real simple for you. If you're getting started now or if you're relatively new, for the first few years of your, of consistency. consistent strength training. Okay, so not the first few years of I go to the gym on and off, but like the first few years of really doing it consistently and right, okay? The best possible way to build muscle is to get stronger. Get stronger, build muscle.

That's it. Very simple. So if you want to build muscle or you want to burn body fat through the boosting of the metabolic rate that comes from muscle building, your goal in your first few years of consistent strength training is to simply get stronger. Get strong. Now, after that, getting stronger doesn't produce the same hypertrophy because obviously you can't just get stronger infinitely.

It doesn't work that way. After that, it gets a little bit more tricky. Then you play with things like volume and intensity and, you know, increasing intensity, lowering volume, increasing volume, lowering intensity, you know, adding variety, new exercise, you know, trying different methodologies. but I'm going to be also very clear on this. Three years of consistent good strength training with good diet, almost everybody will have a phenomenal physique in a three-year period.

So I'm not talking about like, oh, here I am three years later. And I still have a lot of work you do. And nobody can tell you a workout. If you do this right for three is consistently, you've built a nice physique. You've built good muscle, good strength. You've really changed things. And of course, this is with good diet and good sleep habits and all that stuff. So the thing to really focus on is strength.

By the way, every time you add a weight to the bar, you've increased your total volume. You've increased your progressively overloaded. Here's another way, by the way, longer range of motion. So if I'm doing a squat down to parallel with 200 pounds and I now can go two inches below parallel with 200 pounds, the exercise is harder.

I've progressively overload, even though the weight isn't any heavier. Slowing the tempo down is another one. We're concentrating and connecting to a muscle, which this comes with experience, but the better you get, there's a famous quote that, you know, I think Arnold was the one that sent us.

He said he can make one set of squats more effective than somebody else's 10 sets because of how he connects and really makes the muscles work through concentration and connecting. Now, these are all methods of progressively overloading the body. Now, you'll also hear bodybuilders talk about things like the pump and how they like the pump

and how this leads to more muscle growth. and there's a lot of controversy around this. Does it actually? I'm going to tell you this right now. The pump correlates to muscle growth. I don't think it causes muscle growth, but I do think that if you're getting a good pump, what this means is...

You're connected well. Well, the environment and circumstances are probably primed or in a nice place for growth. I know that. I know when I'm well fed, well rested, well hydrated. Well hydrated.

The workout is good. I'm more often than not going to get a great pump. Yeah. And so because of those... things, the pump just tends to signal, not that it's the BL End All, but it'll signal to me, oh, a lot of things are going right. And so this is probably going to be a productive workout. I think there's more to talk about what Justin said with like people overshooting the amount of volume and intensity that they apply early on. And there's some, there's another layer of complexity

that I think is important to talk about because I think one of the reasons, Justin, why that happens to so many of our clients and people that we know too is everybody has that friend or a person they know that can do all this do all this and you're not even doing as much as them so how could how could i be over training and training isn't isn't isolated in this little this little bucket or study of like it's it's a stress that is added to all the other stress that you have and it has to work in balance of all those other things that's right So individualized. So maybe your girlfriend or buddy who has a very stress-feet-free job or life or no kids

who is just a goes beast mode in the gym and they see great results and they have this like and you're like, I'm only doing half of what she does or what he does. How could this be too much for me? Well, they also don't have three kids, a job, you know, a family member who just passed away, struggle with getting their sleep. name all the other things that's stressful in your life. And so context matters also in this conversation. It isn't as simple as just progressive overload builds more muscle.

It's like, okay, yeah, in the context of all other things are balanced, healthy, and right. But progressive overloading the body in a situation where you're already at peak stress of your bucket does not result in more muscle. I know, Adam, I'd like to use an example because you got to a very high level competing in men's physique. you actually became a pro. You did this over the course of a couple years, I believe. It was a couple years. Yeah, yeah, two years. And you were younger, right?

So you're a little age on your, but at that time, that was your focus. So what did your life, because you were doing a lot of volume, no doubt. Oh, yeah. Your training was high volume. Yeah. You were a pro. But what did your life look like that was outside of that? Like, you know, what kind of stress did you have in your life besides that or was that just there?

Well, two big things. it was a total of almost three years it took two years to become a pro so in total it was three years in those three years what I was doing in the first year looked nothing like the second year looked nothing like the third year first of all

so it was a gradual scaling of that again back to my flow and very consistent oh never missed a meal never missed a workout never missed anything never missed a macro I mean that's what that consistency my entire life for those three years everything else revolved

around it. You know, I, around my eating time, around my sleep, around when I'm going to train. Like, I mean, every night I went to bed, already knowing what tomorrow's food was going to look like, what time I was going to train, what muscle groups I was hitting, you know, all the things. And so it was a full-time job to become that. And that's not to say that there's not some anomaly out there who's found a way to work out that much and has great genetics and also works and stuff like that. But the level of dedication and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, focus around balancing all the rest of my life to make sure that I can push the body at that level. Yeah, because the reason why I'm saying that is someone may be, oh, cool, I'm going to train

the way, you know, Adam did when he became a pro, but I got two kids, a job. It's like, forget the time factor, even if you made the time to work out, managing all that stress on top of it, you would have fried yourself. No, no, no, no. Utile. I mean, I'm even going through right now, obviously, a total different phase in my life, openly shared what I just went through in the last, you know, it's been 45 days now or so. I still am not back to normal. I still, I have yet to string three days in a row of a strong sleep score. Every week I have at least multiple below 60 sleep scores, which is really bad.

And so I'm in the phase of my life right now where it dictates if I train it all and if I do train how moderate the intensity is because I'm not stupid. but I'm not building any, I'm not going to go build a bunch of pack on it. Even with my muscle memory, all the things I have working with me, the diet's dialed in right now. I'm not going to be able to build a bunch of muscle with having three days in a row of poor sleep.

And so why would I go in the gym and go crush myself? Then I'm just putting myself at risk of probably getting sick, going backwards. And so I'm even having to balance that right now. And so that's just that understanding. I don't think a lot of people take that in consideration. They look at said friend who's doing X, Y, and Z

or says, oh, this is what I did to get this way. and then they try and take that apply, or maybe they read the studies that say, progressive overload elicits this and training to failure does this. And if you just did, like, and then they just go try and apply that. And they don't consider all those other factors

that's going on in their life. And that training as healthy and as good as for us is another stress. And you have, everybody has a stress bucket. And once it hits top, you're not going to get the body to respond the way you want to. once it starts over spilling.

Yeah. The other thing, too, I like to point out with the data is, because you'll find studies that show, wow, look, this group who did the most amount of volume built the most muscle. And again, these are short studies. They're not, you know, keep them on going. Let's see what happens type of deal. But with the data shows, too, is that two days a week,

two days a week, right, two full body workouts a week, done properly, will get you 80% of your total potential. So, in other words, picture the best body you could have called. through strength training. 80% of the way there is two days a week, which would take you a while. Like you could do that for a couple years. Three days a week will get you 90% of the way there. The other 10% now you're squeezing in a couple more days a week and most people don't

care. At that point, you know, you get 90% of the best shape you could ever get. And when you, you know, put that against what that takes and how much dedication effort, most people are super happy. I'll use Doug as an example when he hired me to train him. years ago. Now, when you work with me, Doug, you were late 30s? Oh, no.

Late 40s. Sorry, late 40. That's right. You were late 40s when you guys first started? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, forget Doug's 107. He's 107 right.

No, he was in those late 40s. Doug hired me and we trained together for like a year, two days a week. Yes, two days a week of strength training. In that year, his deadlift went from, now, of course, at that point, he was, he had done some working out. So, but we got, his deadlift went from like, 150 to 405 in a year. Do you remember when, do you remember at what point when you were, because I know he was a

smooth talker from day one and you were like giving him pumping his tires with the Tony Robbins bullshit and all that stuff like that. That was months later. But so, but I know, because you did your own reading, you've done your own like trial and so that, do you, can you draw back to that and go like when, so I always love like when you unlock it for the client when they're like, oh shit, this is the right method. Because I'm sure you were skeptical. Yeah, I was. When I went into it, I thought I knew quite a bit about lifting.

Yeah. And when he said, we're going to work out a couple days a week, I question that in my head. Yeah. But I surrendered to the process because... How smooth the Votov. Yes, exactly. You know, this guy sounds like, he actually tried to pay me to train him more than two days a week. Yeah. He would have paid me. And I said, no, no, two days a week. Yeah. But, you know, as time progressed, you know, it's like, okay, I'm lifting these weights. I think I can do more. And it was very, you know, progressive. as we're talking about here. And then little by little, I started to see, wow, things are actually starting to work. Was it a lift? Was it a look?

Which one was it? Well, did you look in your mirror? It was a combination of those things. One, in particular, was a deadlift. That was a lift I had actually never really had done much prior to meeting Sal. But the deadlift, I was just like going up, up, up, up all the time. And then I could see my body starting to change. And it's like, okay, all right.

This is working. This guy must know what he's talking about. I trusted him and I'm glad I did. Then he was like, let's go build a business. That was pretty much how it went down. Let's go build a business into the world because this changed my life. That's how I'm sure that's exactly what happened. You're like, there's got to be a million people just like me who's done their research, tried all this, applied all the science to all the things that you thought were right.

You know, a majority of my clients, two days a week were my very dedicated clients. Majority of my clients were one day a week. It was one day a week and then they would be active throughout the week. And everybody was skeptical. but they all got great. One day a week, everybody will get you like 70%. By the way, you can do a lot with that. It's not like you do the same thing every time. You're going to get stronger and you're going to progress in that workout. It's just people think that they're going to go, oh, okay, I got to do strength. I got to do four days a week. I got to do five days a week to make this work. And the most important part of that is that it's such a low barrier to entry too. It's just like, just do that. And then like let yourself see the great change, feel the great change from that. And then like, say a month, two months goes by and you're like, yeah, this is like, I would love to do another day. Totally.

Add another day. And what a great way to progressively be over. Naturally, just, boom, just another day is already like a significant amount of volume you've increased right there. And then watch how long you reap those benefits. But we don't do that. We're, we're emotional creatures.

We're driven by our insecurities. It's the, it's the doctor scare. It's the spouse comment. It's the person teasing me. You know, you're also, Adam, you're also watching. so much of fitness media is communicated by these maniacs that they don't understand it for themselves. And so they communicate it through that like, oh, beast mode, go for it.

Get out. This is what I do. And it's like, no. Well, I think that's closely, you're doing too much. I think that's closely connected to the, the insecurity thing. Totally. We're insecure. I see this, this body that I want to, I want to look like.

And he or she is saying things that get my juices flowing and motivate me in the moment. and then that makes me take action. And the things that they're saying are things like, there's no days off and you got, there's enough 24 hours in the day. And you got, you know what I'm saying? It's like,

and you're telling yourself like, yeah, I need to be that guy. We've always equated, you know, being obese to laziness. And so I think that like that thought process makes its way into fitness is like, if you're not doing a whole lot,

like you're doing this all with a lazy attitude, and you're not doing enough. and then it's just like you got more, more, more. Well, I mean, if you listen to the podcast when we have callers that call in, a majority of them, we scale them back. Yeah. A majority of them, we don't tell them to do more.

Most of them, it's like, no, you're actually doing a little too much, back off and then call back. And what happens when they come back? I didn't believe you. I mean, I have a lot of patience and empathy for the client and so like that, because the thing that always resonated with me is that everything else in our life

serves us to approach it that way. Yep. Like, if you want to be a master at playing the Japanese flute, the more you do it, the more you practice, the more hours put in, the better you're going to be. You want to be great at the guitar. The more, you know what I'm saying? The more hours you do, you want to be great and reading, knowing studies, the more, like, the more you do it, the more, like everything else in our life, we're rewarded and served

for the beast mode, for the more we do it. And unfortunately, human physiology and that's the limiter. is not, is not, doesn't work that well. No, it's a limiter. It's a chicken balancing system. I would say that applies, but just use it to apply it to consistency. So yes, it's true. Yeah.

That attitude works, but use it in, apply it to a consistency with your two or three days a week of strength training. Yeah. Not to the, I got to go so hard I can't even move. So I like, where you're going is like a, oh, a lot of. Discipline your strategy. This is how I like to communicate to my clients because I like what you're saying too. Because it's like, every day, I'm thinking about doing something for, my health and fitness. There you go. What it's not

is training in the gym really hard a day. Sometimes it's resisting from that thing that I would normally go eat. Right. Or it's, you know what? I wouldn't normally go for it. Which is hard enough. Right. I'm going to go for a 20 minute walk right now. I'm going to read that health article today. I'll do a little stretching. I'm going to try this healthy recipe. I've never tried to cook for dinner. So every day, I'm going to apply something towards health and fitness. What it doesn't look like is beating my body up every day. It is, you know, that's only, you know, that's only going to be one to three times a week.

The other days are making better food choices, reading content that's related to that, going for a walk, choosing to wash the car instead of outsourcing that. Like those are all decisions and effort towards your health and fitness goal, but it's not stressing the body out like exercise can be. So I think, so I love that attitude of, yeah,

you still apply that same level of consistency and discipline, but you can't apply it to the stress part, the exercise part, because that will end up shooting you in the foot. 100%. All right, I'm going to change directions because I've had this particular conversation I'm going to get into now with a few people around protein powders. And these people, friends of mine, who have an intolerance to dairy, and so I'll refer them to different kinds of protein. And they were interested in plant proteins.

And I said, look, avoid plant protein. because the studies on plant proteins almost always show a high heavy metal content. The only one that I will stand behind is with our partners Organify because they test them. They test everything. All the testing. They test them for glyphosate residue. So they go above and beyond. But plant proteins, in particular organic plant proteins because of the types of pesticides they use,

tend to build up heavy metals. So when you look up studies on heavy metal content and protein, the worst are plant protein. So I was going to ask you that. It's because of the organic type of pesticides they're using that carries a lot of aluminum in it. It builds up heavy metals in the soil. Yeah. So organified tests everything. They're like very clean.

What do you think is worse? What do you mean? Glyzacet versus heavy metals. Yeah. Oh, heavy metals will kill you. Oh, yeah. So you're trading. So, okay.

Yeah. But like how in terms of the amount that you'd receive from heavy metals that may trace amounts that were in there versus glyphosate? You got to see the studies, dude. Is it crazy? Some of these are like 10,000 percent higher. Yeah, like some of these studies on heavy metals in plant. Like they're like to the point where there's, they're putting out warnings. It's also a thing too, Sal, that a lot of people that use them, a lot of people that like shakes or use shakes, use them daily.

Daily. You know, and it's also one of those things that, does your body not detox that or get that out? Like how hard? You know how hard? Like, lead, cadmium, arsenic, mercury. They get absorbed by the soil, by the soil plants. Then you, what happens is you concentrate them, right? So, you know, you have to break down a lot of plants to get protein.

So whether it's rice protein, pea protein, pumpkin, seeper, whatever, they concentrate it, which then concentrates the heavy metals. So if you go with a plant protein, you need to be, you need to make sure that they test, test, test, test, test. that they don't have. I'm assuming because Organified is so good about this, they're taking it through another filtration process? Or is it just where they source it from? They source and they test.

Yeah, big time. If they see anything, they'll kick it back. So they're really, really good about what they do. And like I said, they also test. I had this debate with a marketing buddy of mine who was like, it makes no sense to me why mind pump doesn't have a supplement company and this and that. And I'm like, dude, you're tripping, dude. I don't want anything to do.

I said, that would be Sal's dream. I said, that would be such a massive headache for us. And then he starts telling me like these other companies that are making all this money. And I said, I just started laughing at him. I said, bro, first of all, stay in your lane. I know you're a marketing guy, but now you're in my lane here. I said, this is not, you know how if you have good, if you have good profit or good product that actually sources, that tests, that actually has all the, all the right stuff in there, it's not high margin. Very limited.

If they're making 40, if you're telling you, I don't even know who the brand is you're talking about. You're telling about 40, 50% margin. I'm telling you dog shit. Yep. I already know that. You don't even have to see the brand. You can't. In order to stay competitive at the price, you're looking at 5% margin.

You pixie dust. Yeah. Yeah. Five to 15 max. 15 is if you're a rush. Yes. Efficient. Efficient.

Yeah. Like, so these, these supplement companies aren't, it's super competitive. And then the ones that are super profitable, let me tell you, they're cutting corners. Yep. They're not doing. the third party testing. They're not giving a shit of all this stuff. That's how they compete and make it so much cheaper. And it's like, so if you're trying to sell me on why Mind Pump needs to make a supplement

brand because you know you market for somebody who makes 40, 50%, I'm telling you, don't even tell me the company because I'm going to talk shit about them because I already know the trash. Totally. Speaking of supplements, you guys, this is so crazy to me. So we've been talking about you can go all the way back to 10 years ago, some of our first episodes. We've been preaching about.

the benefits of creatine since then. And back then, nobody was really talking about creatine except for the fact that it builds muscle. But we were preaching, it's good for the brain, it's good for the body, it's a health supplement. You know, 10 years ago, we predicted, like this is going to be the top longevity supplement. So, and now I think everybody knows this.

Like now everybody's talking about creatine, how good it is for your brain, for your body, for your organs, for your health, for your skin, longevity. Well, it turns out that women in particular benefit from creatine, which is wild because that's the demographic that has been the slowest to adopt it, mainly because it's been marketed to as much either. It's because it's a muscle building supplement. And when you take creatine, your muscles get more hydrated.

You might see the scale go up a couple pounds. And so, of course, women, they'll freak out over it. Or you get the myth that it causes bloating, which it doesn't. Or water retention, which it doesn't. It just hydrates you. And so it scares people, right? Especially women, if they see the scale go up. But it's lean body mass and it's muscle hydration.

But anyway, a couple of studies came out. One was on women who suffer from anxiety. 50% of them, just through supplementing with creatine, saw a dramatic reduction in anxiety. Cratein. A healthy supplement reduced their anxiety. Women who had irregular periods, a significant percentage of them,

saw their period regularity improved by supplementing with creatine. Interesting. Now, this all has to be connected to muscle, because muscles connected to hormone regulation, muscles, I mean... Well, every cell operates off of ATP. all cells in the body. Yeah. So, I mean, no, I don't think either, any of us would, if you were to separate men and women and we had to bet our last dollar on who creatine would benefit more would not say women.

I would have guessed that. Right. And that's likely to eat me. Right. Just from that, just from the simple. Like I not even going another layer deep in what, what creatine does on an ATP, ADP level. but that almost all of my clients underate protein, my women grossly under a protein. And that's where you get creatine from. And that's where you get creatine from.

So that's kind of like, yeah, here's your sign, obvious. Well, it's like vegans. And why it improves their cognition. Oh, yeah. You see literal measurable IQ boost in vegans who take creatine. And you can buy vegan. All right. You probably can make the argument, too, that female vegan even more.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Most benefit. I can't even believe. I just remembered. I had a female client that was vegan. Now, I did eventually get her to eat eggs. I've talked about her before.

Cratein was the other one. I had her start taking Cratein, and she was like, what are you giving me? She's like, this completely changed my life. It feels so different. I'm like, back then, this was like kind of like my theory. Yeah, I remember the same thing. I had a friend of the family and I kind of did that with,

and it was like, they could retrieve words again. It was like one of those things you talk to them, and then they're constantly trying to think of that, word, but it's like all of a sudden now. Have you guys seen the studies on sleep deprivation? This is wild. I don't need to see this. You can pretty much. You can you can pretty much erase the effects of sleep deprivation on cognitive tests. So people take cognitive tests. You can see like really sleep deprived. Yeah, yeah. With about 20 to 25 grams of creatine. Well, so high dose. High dose. Oh, that's actually, I should, uh, I should do that. You should. Now I'll tell you this. I'm not high dosing.

Don't take a high dose all at once because you'll get diarrhea. I know. If you take five grams like four times a day. Yeah, yeah. With your poor sleep, I bet you would notice a huge difference. I've done bugs. You know, it's interesting.

Oh, diarrhea. Dude. Real bad. I'm going to mess with that, actually, because I haven't been going a high dose. I was literally just making a comment to Katrina last night because she was asking, I was doing it. I was like, man, you know, I can.

I said, I got a great workout in. My diet's been dialed. I've had two or three good days of sleep, but I still just feel cloudy. That's the only way I can describe it. So it would be interesting to see. I'm going to try that. Yeah, so it's like throw five grams with every meal.

Yeah, yeah. I haven't pushed the big 20 gram thing. It's like... So it saturates the muscles very quickly. It takes much more to get to the brain. So it's funny that you say that because that highlights that there was a little bit of truth and value to the old... The old loading phase? Well, the loading phase...

I mean, they wanted you to get through the product. Yeah. Well, it gets your muscles saturated with creating like a day or too fast. So it's... There's some value. there. I mean, yeah, there is. I mean, exactly. We talked a lot of shit about it. And it was a big joke. I mean, that happened in cell tech days. And then there's was a big marketing decade that ran against that, which is this is all. Do you guys remember the first time you took

creatine? Do you remember how long ago was it? Oh, man, that was like when I was a sophomore in high school. Oh, so you started early too. A little bit earlier than me. I was like a freshman in college, junior college. While you, okay, so I started as probably 94. Oh my God. Yeah. And I took phosphagen. Yeah, yeah.

Phosphogen and then phosphagin. Yeah, that's like phosphagen. And I, and I got stronger. I found phosphagen after Seltek. Yeah. Seltic was first for me. Oh, God. Then I found phosphagen and then Phosphogen H.

Then Phosphogen HP. And I took Phosphogen HP for, I don't know how long. Do you guys know how expensive it was back then in 94? Super expensive. Bro, it was a tiny bottle, looked like a, like a little supplement bottle. And it was, say, 90, this was back in 94, 95. Oh, it was like, it was like 60 bucks back then.

It was 50, 60 bucks back then for like 25 servings or something like that. Yeah, yeah, no, I remember. I was working, I was washing dishes at a pizza restaurant. I had to buy it myself. I told you guys, remember I told you guys we used to work in a mixing factory. And we had a, my boy grabbed a five, like, five-gallon drum. That was like, bro, that was like gold. Yeah, gold.

Gold. Come on, Adam. Tony Montagna. What's it? It wasn't me. This is not a story about me stealing that I just sell some of it. No, I did not. Okay. I definitely took so. I definitely took some of it though. You thought of it though. Yeah, bro, we got this. I mean, it's crazy. You came home with a Qa on Creighteen. Since we're talking about creatine, I do want to tell the audience this, though, because it is popping up everywhere. It's in everything.

Yeah. You still, one, go with a company that's reputable and that you, that's source and trusted. I know we just, we just, we just, we just, we, We shouted out Organify just recently. They're a trusted source. And or simple creatine monohydrate, plain nothing. That's the cheapest, the best. It's the one of the studies. It is. Because what, be careful.

Because it's becoming so popular because of the point that you're making that we called for a very long time. Everybody knows that. And so you're going to get all these companies that are going to pixie dust it and all these products. So they can say you're getting that too to, to. to add value so they can then now charge you for X product that would normally be $3 is now going to be $5 and you're going to justify it in your head because you go, well, it's got a serving of creatine in there plus that. And so just buyer beware that don't just fall for the, you know, everything's just like the CBD game. You know what I'm saying? Like every,

product had, once everybody was on to CBD has benefits. CBD has benefits. Now you get like CBD and everything, you know. CBD shoes. Yeah. Actually sold CBD shoes. Not making that up. I swear I swear to. Why? I'm like, how's that work? Yeah, why? Anyway, did I tell you guys, did I bring this up already that what I'm doing with my scale? I might have told you guys this off air. Your scale?

My weight scale at home. Did I tell you guys this on the show? No. That I'm getting rid of my scale. So I'm sitting there, dude. Get off me, fat. You know, you have these moments, right? And, you know, I started that series.

And part of it, you know, it's my faith, but part of it was like trying to tackle this idol of fitness that I have. And I was sitting in bed. And I'm just like, you know, I'm, you know, every night I pray. and, you know, and so my wife and I prayed together, but then I laid in bed and I prayed some more. And I'm like, you know, this is, it's interesting. It reminds me on my clients.

I used to have clients that would, they would lie to themselves so that they didn't have to tell me the truth. Like, an example would be, they'll write their food logs out, but they wouldn't count the snacks at the grocery stores are walking through the aisles. And almost like they would try to lie to themselves about it.

Yeah. That it was in there. And so I'm sitting there and I'm like, you know, And I'm just kind of dawning on me. Like the advice I give to people all the time on the show. And one of the pieces of advice I give is to throw away the scale. Throw away the scale.

And I weigh myself every day. Every day you weigh yourself. Every morning. When was the last time? What's the longest you've gone not weighing yourself? And when was that? It's been a long time now. Really?

Yeah, it's been a long time. Holy shit, bro. And you know what it is? This is the lying to myself part. Yeah, I would totally. The lying to myself part is I don't think about it. Of course. I go to take a shower, hop on the scale.

Yeah. But it affects me for sure, because if I see it go up or down, my behaviors will change a little bit. Of course. And then I'll compare to the mirror to it or whatever, right? And so I'm like, of course. Like, I didn't even dawn on me that this is a problem. Yeah.

And I'm like, you know, I need to get rid of the scale. So I stopped paying attention to the body, to my body. So that's going to be phase one. So I already told my wife, she got rid of the scale. So I don't have a scale. And what's funny, too, is she got rid of the scale. and yesterday was the first day without it and I'm already like, I wonder what I weigh.

I know we have a scale here and so I'm not going to weigh myself here either because I thought to myself even I could weigh myself at work. I'm like, what am I doing? So getting rid of the scale is going to be number one. Number two. It justifies himself once a decade.

Only when somebody asked me to. Once a decade. I don't think of a half. The last time we waited was when the both of us got on the scale. That's the last time I did it. What were we doing? Why do we even get on there? What were doing?

I think it was before a series or something. something or... I don't remember... Even before that. Somebody asked, and so we got on the... I don't... Yeah, I don't ever get on the scale of it.

Which is crazy because I'm also the guy who would weigh three times a day when I was like, when I was tracking and so like that. But I was just, again, I was lying to myself. Of course you were. And the reason was... There's no reason, bro. Well, there is no...

Okay, listen. You don't have to tell me. Okay, listen. There is no reason you should ever weigh your food or way on a scale. You. I'm not saying other people. You have no need to do either one of those. So if you're still weighing your food or you're still getting on the scale, that's crazy.

I don't weigh my food, luckily. But I've never done that. But I don't want to get into that either. But it's interesting because I just, I was lying to myself. And I'm like, you know what? I'm like, I got to break. This is going to be the starting point. Because I'm like, I want to fix this problem.

And that's all I keep saying to myself, fix this problem. I got to start with step one. Step one is get rid of the scale. I think step two is going to be stop studying myself in the mirror. Step three is going to be maybe change what I wear while I work out. That'll be the next one. I don't know what step four is going to look like. Probably like have one of you guys give me a workout plan and just follow that or something.

Just let go over. Have you thought about getting back to your jihitsu? I bet that was one of the better times with that relationship. It was. I bet it was. Because you were so focused on your art and craft of that. You're not really trippant if your scale goes up or down two or three pounds. You probably ate just for performance, so you felt good.

I would think that that was probably one of the, in relation to that. health. That was probably the healthiest in terms of my relationship to fitness was Jiu-Jitsu. Do you dabble with the idea of maybe doing that again? I mean, it's so far away from it right now, mentally, that no. So that's why I said step one is the scale. Get rid of the scale. And I'm just not going to step on it for a long time. That's the goal. I mean, any way we can help other than just teasing you? That's perfect. Yeah. That's why I really know how to do. I love it when you guys chat. You guys are great about that. The lid is off. He just make fun of me all the time.

It'll help. So that's step one. That's what we do it now. And so, yeah, it was funny, too, because it's so stupid. It, like, it's like, you know, I felt, I felt like this epiphany. I'm like, you idiot. You tell everybody to do this. I can't believe you even think about it.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, sometimes like that. I mean, I so relate to you with that because we were, we were so similar. Yeah. I came from that place, 100%. But I do feel like before I went into bodybuilding, though, I had, I had wrestled that dragon or that demon already. So, like, it was, it was fun.

but it was really easy to also transition out of it. What helped for me was like, that's why I think the jihadistic thing is such a move because we have these brains where we can go so deep into something that we're in. I mean, when it's something that doesn't serve you to be the big buff jack guy or those things like that, like it just kind of forces that.

When I went to be the mobility guy, I just served that so well. And of course, I had a little bit, especially with social media at that time when we were really engaged. You know, people were like, oh, where's Adam's muscle? And like, you know, so there's a little bit of, you know,

a little bit of that. But it was good for me, I thought, too. It was like, I, you know, so there was a part of me that I remember saying like, like, all right, go ahead, keep it coming because I need to be okay. And that not faze me, why people are saying that because I know what I'm doing right now. And so then I think once I got over that home, then it was like easy to not go back. Totally. All right.

I got a conspiracy about the Bermuda triangle, Justin. Did you hear the new thing about the Bermuda triangle? No, but I have something about Egypt after that. There's, go ahead. I have a Bermuda triangle thing that you brought that up. So Bermuda's waters, I'm going to pull this up, there's a giant structure that's unlike anything else on Earth. So there's a new study published in the Journal of Geophysical Research Letters.

Scientists believe they have discovered the reason why Bermuda never sank after its volcano shut down more than 30 million years ago. It's comet. Yeah, no, there's something under the water that they're locating. They found an unusual rock layer below the oceanic crust under Bermuda, pushing the island up. So it's a layer, it's a 12-mile-th century. thick rock layer that they've never seen anywhere in the world, which is cool because there's so much surrounding the Bermuda. Do they test it for its magnetism? No. That's cool. I should do that.

I was listening to an interview since you brought up Bermuda Triangle and was this billionaire lawyer guy. He started off as a lawyer and then he just created all these other crazy businesses. And one of the ones that he did was he realized how he, the way the story goes is he was visiting San Francisco one time with his wife and they wanted to go to Alcatraz and they went to go to the line and oh no it's

sold out. Well can we go tomorrow? Oh no it's sold out for the next couple weeks. He's like, oh my God. Then he's like he greases the person like hundreds of dollars like come on, give me into this place or what that and realizes like man how obsessed we are as Americans with crime. And so he decides to

build this crime museum and he builds this crime museum and he builds this crime museum And it actually doesn't do very well. It's in like a traditional kind of building. And it does like, you know, it's barely breaking even and stuff like that. And then his lease comes up. The guy doesn't want to renew his lease. And then basically he loses all the investors, losing things like that.

But his wife's like, so what are we on to next? And he's like, no, I don't want, I think this idea was right. I think we just did it wrong. I think we should do. So he comes up with this idea to build this structure. And there's a story behind it is that the building was, went through the Bermuda. a triangle and it flipped the building upside down. And so it's like, you can look it up.

It's an upside down. Yes, museum. It's an upside down museum. I feel like I see this. Is this in Florida? He's got a few of them now. They're all his. There wasn't upside down.

So it's an upside down crime museum. You can probably Google that, Doug, and get the name of it. I know he's got at least three to five of them now that just prints money. He's like he makes like millions a year just off of people. And he goes, it's so easy to maintain because once he, the few million dollars to build the structure to put the things in there. He's got OJ's Bronco in it. He's got, yeah, yeah.

And so he's bought like these things that obviously probably cost him a lot of money to put him in there. But he's like, it doesn't cost anything really to maintain it other than cleaning it, somebody to open it and sell the tickets to it and stuff like that. And people go in there and stay for out, three hours or whatever. Yeah.

But the fact that it's upside down, it draws this attention to it. Alcatraz East Crime Museum in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. That's the guy. That's definitely the guy. I don't think that's the upside down one. So maybe there's other ones that he has. They call it dark tourism. So that is, yeah, just we are, I guess we are so, I didn't realize how obsessed we are with that.

There's people that go to like these, I don't know where it is, but it's where they do voodoo and they practice it and they actually tour through that and watch like witchdogers to all stuff. And I'm like, wow, that's crazy. Yeah, dude. What do you do? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe go Bermuda Triangle upside down museum. Because I know that's a hey, he told it, like, that's the story of how it got upside down. and so you walk in and you go in and you're on the ceiling and then you go through some portal that kind of like flips it.

Oh, cool. And it has some storyline. I mean, I only remember this because you brought up Bermuda Triangle and I know that was front of the story. You know, when I was a kid, I used to go to the library, the school library. So this was in sixth grade. I guarantee you, Justin, you've read these books. There was a series of books. They weren't that thick, but each one covered, you know, one was on Bigfoot.

One was on the Mothman. One was on Bermuda Triangle, UFOs. And they were just, I'd go in the library and just take these out and just read about them. Of course. Is that it right there? Wonderworks Museum. There it is. He owns all of what you wrote up.

Is that in, it looks like, I haven't recognized something like that in Florida. Yeah, he's got a few of them. Isn't that cool looking? That's very cool. I know. And then just, just that drew so much more attention. And then people thought that was really interesting. Yeah.

So the, dude, there's so much still. like undiscovered in Egypt and especially like where the great pyramids are like so you know the recent findings where they like did that deep penetrating radar yeah found underneath it. However, I guess like even there's this other information that they've had for a long time that they tried to get all these permits to go exhum and dig and make an archaeological site, but we're blocked because it like doesn't fit the narrative for Egypt Zahi, who, boss and they kind of block the whole thing. But apparently, like, there's a whole labyrinth.

Like, out in front of the main period of Giza pyramid in Giza. And it goes all the way like four layers down. And so, dude, it's, it's so, I guess if you read back about Atlantis, like, it qualifies a lot of these. Like, it looks like they are library chambers. And also there's this. big huge, it's like a, it's a, it's a, it's a, uh, ring structure. So like way down at the bottom, there's this huge ring structure, um, that looks, then they're like speculating what that is. Like it's a gate or something. Yeah. Oh my God. Down there. Yeah. I was like,

tripping out on that. I had no idea. I've seen enough movies. Don't open it. Now, for the average person who's not like so into this stuff, like they just like, oh, cool, neat. We found something on the ground. The thing that makes this so interesting and controversial, right? Justin, is that how it really kind of disrupts a lot of how we've told history and the timelines. And so that's where all the conspiracy theories is because it really messes with what we've all been taught, like, this is our timeline. Because they've even found like hieroglyphs of the Egyptians describing in this layer, previous civilization that they do a head nod to, which is the theory.

It's like Graham Hancock and all them kind of like point to that it's a lot older. than even the Egyptians. And so that's why they don't like it, because it's this very Egyptian-centric. And so if you go against that narrative, it's like they don't even want to entertain it. Have you seen, I think we might have talked about this before.

Have you seen those ancient, like, sculptures or rock carvings of, like, people on dinosaurs? Have you seen these? Yeah. Oh, yeah. They're old. And it's like a stegosaurus or a brontosaurus, and they're like riding it.

Well, you see it and go back Lee-Tepi. There's a few, like, there's a, uh, uh, Teradactal, and there's also, like, another, like, stegosaurus, like, carvings, and you're like, wait a minute. And there's people and everything, like, alongside them carved. And you're like, you know, of course. Like, are they pretty clear, though? Yes.

It is pretty clear. Doug, look up, look up, like, are they, what's that place called? Oblecky teffi. Okay, whatever. Look up dinosaur carvings, old dinosaur carvings. Make him spell old blackie tecky. Yeah. Like, wiketeky.

You don't even made up that word, you say. I almost, dude, I'm so mad at myself. I had a great joke earlier in this podcast. I didn't, I didn't, like, throw it out because, like, it was too late. Now's your chance. Yeah, no, you said moche. And then you corrected yourself. And, like, yeah, the great Arnold was going to, like, quote.

And then I was like, it's not the length and the size, but it's the motion and the osh. And I was like, oh, oh, but I was so late. Did you say moche? He did. He said, look at that. That's a stegosaurus, bro. Right there. Oh, yeah.

See? That's a Stegosaurus. Click on that. Click on it. Oh, yeah, that's definitely a dinosaur. That's a Stegosaurus. Come on. Yeah.

Yeah, dude. It's, they're saying it's a rhinoceros. I don't ever see a rhinoceros with, with stegosaurus bones on his back. I don't know if it's a hoax or not. No. Oh, please.

Yeah. They're lying to us. Of course they're going to say that. Yeah. Everything points back to the great flood, dude. There's culture. All right, I've noticed this interesting trend that I want to kind of point out. before it gets real popular.

So, and I might have talked about this in a previous episode, but I'm seeing more and more of it now. When you go through, when I go through my, if I go through my feed, right, the algorithm, you get ads. Everybody gets ads on their feed. Pay attention.

Yeah. Because almost every ad now is AI. Yeah. None of them are real anymore. They're all AI. Every single ad. And it makes sense. You can make them fast.

They're cheap. They're effective. They're people. Oftentimes they're people. And what they're already doing, and I thought this already. So, okay, so all ads are going to be AI. Pretty soon people are going to want ads that look authentic.

Yes. And so what all these AI ads are looking like now, I'm seeing a lot of fake podcast AI ads. So it's people talking like this. We're credible. And they're selling a product. And it's because whenever you see people talking on a podcast, it automatically appears to be credible.

But they're fake. They're all fake. Who's that one idiot that works with Dr. Drew that was like the shredded guy. That's right. Or V-s shreds. Vichres. We're using that. Joe Rogan,

the Joe Rogan curtain. A curtain behind him. Yeah. Like a total hack. Yeah, no. I've told you guys before that there's like a total like business genius behind him, right? Like he's not the. Yeah, he's an actor, dude.

Yeah, yeah. He's just like the face of the brand and stuff like that. There's like a real business guy. Just to you, Adam, because you're the, you're the business guy, right? I feel like this will this will make people like us more valuable in the future for ads because people already know we're real. and for people looking for authenticity. Because at some point,

people were weary of faith. I had a really good conversation. I wish I could shout the guy out because he was a really interesting dude. We hit it off that day. Remember I told you I went to Hermose's school thing, right? Yeah. Like we won that award for one of the times.

So we're in this place where there's 50 of the top producers in the school app, right? So everybody in there is doing something cool. Right. Got a good successful business. And I told you that the only older guy came over and like, Kevin. It was you and him. Yeah, yeah. You can see like, be lined over to me. And I was just like, he totally, he doesn't know who I am.

He's a old guy. At first, when he was walking up, I was like, oh, maybe he's a microphone fan, right? Because I had somebody else was a mind pump fan. So I was like, oh, no, he's coming up just because I'm the other older guy inside here. So we start talking up about his business and stuff. And he's hardcore in the AI world. And he's got this, his school, his school is all about teaching, like, ordinary guys like us, like how to use AI then to build software. to do things like that.

And it's a really interest. He's having a lot of success doing it. So he's been doing that for decades. He's been in that space. So very, very well versed. So what a great, but we're having lunch together. I'm talking.

And I'm like, hey, man, what do you think about the dead internet theory? And he's like, no, no, no, no. And I was like, because I was like, I was sold on that for what the point

you're making right now. Like, we're going to wake up real soon here and all this damn cons. Yeah. I mean, it's happening fast. Fast. Real fast.

Every ad, I'm telling you. Yeah, I feel like the last time we had this conversation, it's already multiplied by crazy, right? And he goes, no, he goes, there's already smart businesses that are correcting for it and going the other way is people more than ever are going to yearn for authentic. Real, real people, real connection. They're going to want to know for sure that's a real person. And I don't care how good the ad is.

if they can't confirm like, I know that's a real person or like it's going to turn them off. See, that's what I was thinking. And so I thought that was really interesting because I was on the other side of that argument. So here's why I think that's cool because AI is so good,

you won't be able to tell by looking at the ad. It'll look like a real person. Yeah, so you'll need to have that built-in relationship. Right, you'll have to know, oh, I know that's a real person because they've been around for you. I've met Sal and Adam and Justin in person at an event.

Right. And I know that's them. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I definitely think that that's going, and to take it a layer deeper, Salas, I think, I think those in-person type things are going to be even more important because I think the AI actually will get so good. And we've already, we've seen bad examples of this of us. How many times have you already had to, like, we sent a cease and assist to people who are using you and your voice to sell a product.

So they already, they already can use our imagery, our face, and it's not, I mean, it's choppy right now. It's not great. But I mean, come on. Some point is going to be perfect. Yeah, some point it's going to be great. And then then you have to ask yourself, when can our own people even distinguish the difference between you selling some bullshit product? The only thing that's going to save them is like being and meeting and talking to you really in a real person. And so I do think that we are going to see this move back to more live, more in person, more of that stuff. Simultaneously, more AI, more disconnected also too. This is, this plays right back into my ongoing theory of where we're heading down, which is this very unplug plugged-in division where there's going to be

some people who actually don't give a shit that it's AI produced. If it got them to the best product with the best reviews and it does the job, then I'm okay with clicking, linking, buying. If I'm somebody who's like, or looking for something that is a personal touch, like, again, our industry, you know, we're about trainers, training real people and helping people in real life. I think that, they will value that more. If we were selling batteries, and that was like the thing that we sold, then who cares if it's an AI ad?

As long as it gets them to, gets them to the cheapest, best battery that lasts the longest. You know what I'm saying? And so it will create this kind of division of what your product is, what you sell, how you connect to your people. And so he did kind of blow up my dead internet thing.

Well, good. So speaking of partners and stuff, this is our last time talking about Rock Recovery Center, right? Yes, yes. So, okay, but they're going to do another giveaway, if I'm not mistaken. Is that correct? That's correct. One more for this year. Okay, so these, this is a rehab facility and we know our good friends. The guys that run it, and they're great, and they're great, and what they do for us and for our audience is you go on

their site and they'll help you no matter what, but one person gets a scholarship. And it's worth like $50,000 where you go there and they, $60,000, it's a four months of rehab, inpatient. You go in there, you stay there, and they stay there. They take care of you. So, you know, if you're struggling with addiction or you have a family or friend, first of all, they help everybody. So everybody that goes to their site will get help. It's rock recovery center.com forward slash mind pump.

That's right. They keep us updated to on all the patients that we've sent to it that are going through it and the people that they're helping. It's been a really rewarding experience to partner with them. And so the fact that they've been this giving for this long and have been able to do that, like it's been really cool. So awesome. Yeah, yeah.

I want to mention, too, that. We have not announced the Black Friday winners on the show, even though we did send out a message on Instagram, as well as emails to every one of the winners. But I wanted to make sure, in case you didn't see that post or if you didn't get an email, and you're still wondering if you won, we're going to put all the winners down in the show notes.

I know you've heard this before. You are what you eat, but it's actually you are what you digest. You've got to break the food down. If you have digestive issues, digestive enzymes can make a big difference, especially for those of you on a high-protein diet. Well, Mass Zyms are digestive enzymes designed for people like you,

fitness-minded people. Break down that food, help with your digestion, get those nutrients to your muscles faster and more effectively. Go to MassZyms.com. That's M-A-S-Z-Y-M-E-S-com forward slash mind pump. Use the code Mind Pump 10 and get 10% off. Back to the show. Our first caller is John from Washington.

What's up, John? Are you doing, John? What's happening? Hello. Good morning, everybody, or happy afternoon or whatever it is for you guys. How can we help you, man? I need your help. My youngest daughter, she's 16, and a gymnast, has challenged me to a pull-up chin-up competition.

Okay. And I'm a slightly competitive person, and I don't want my daughter to win. I need your help. Do you know how many pull-ups you can do and how many she can do? I think she's around 12 or so. I'm not really sure. I'm at 14 right now. Yeah.

So, which is a big increase for me because as of March, I could only do two and a half. Oh, good job. I've gotten some good gains, but I need more. Yeah. No, that's good, man. You know what? You just, you're just practiced doing them every day, but you don't go to high intensity. So if your max is, let's say, 14 pull-ups, you could practice several times a day doing like six, seven pull-ups and just practice doing them like that moderate intensity at most. Almost daily, you could do it a couple times, two, three times a day. So you just hop up on a pull-up bar, do five, six, seven reps, jump back down, you know, later in the day, do it again. And then maybe once a week, you put it. push it a little bit. I was just saying, wouldn't you have them at least one or two days out of the week, do some because he loaded and only do like three reps? You have a weight vest by chance?

I don't have a weight vest, but I can strap some to my waist. Yeah, like once a week. Really loaded, like where three reps is hard. Yeah, and that's like once a week. You do like a workout like that would be rad. So just work up to however much weight I can tolerate. For like three, four reps. Yeah, three to four.

So, yeah, as much weight as you can lift for about three or four reps, I would do that two times a week and a set sets of four so four four sets be done with it that's your that's your workout for the day twice and then the rest of the time is what sal saying you're just practicing jumping up there practice just your body weight trying you know nothing long if you're not trying to fatigue you don't grit as many as you can get out you just get out like five to seven multiple times per day yeah you're not trying to work out you're just you're just getting good at pull-ups if that makes sense but that combined with the two days a week with pretty with good rest in between with the heavy loaded, you'll be,

you're going to be pulling up a lot real soon here. That's it. Yeah. The frequency will really get you strong. Yeah. Now, if you start to feel a little over trained, take some time off. You take a day or two off.

So you've got to listen to your body. But that is your recipe for getting really good at something. Okay. So now, because it's pull-ups and chin-ups. Should I do like an alternating weeks? Or how do I do both? Practice the one that's harder, I would say. You can practice both, but which one's harder for you?

Probably chin-up. Yeah, that's the one I would. would practice because you get better at chin-ups or pull-ups get easier. Okay. Yeah, that's normally the opposite for me. Yeah, I know. I was just saying, I was saying the two days that are loaded, do one day overhand the other day, chin-up.

Okay. So the two that are loaded, the two that are loaded, and then you can, you know, because you're doing these pull-ups throughout the day, five to seven of them, like you're saying, multiple times in the day, you know, alternate every other one. The other ones are pull-up, the other ones are underhand. You could also do it that way. but typically if you get stronger at the weaker one, the other one's going to come up too.

But you're kind of backwards. Most people are the chin-ups are easier. And these are all strict, yeah? You're not swinging around like crossfit guys. I swing a little bit. I pull up my knees a little bit. I sent you guys a video. I don't know if it came through or not.

I don't think we got it. If you practice them strict, you'll get stronger that way. And then if you use momentum for the competition, That's it. Yeah. It's all good. Do a little kip in there, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I did talk to my daughter, and she said, raising your knees is okay, because we're starting to get the competition not until June. Oh, okay. Oh, you got time, dude. I got some time to get there. Yeah, you should be able to get, from now till June, if you could do 14, you'd be able to get in the mid-20s.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Especially if you haven't been training loaded like that and you really get strong loaded with just the reps throughout the day, like Sal's saying, you're going to, you're going to see it explode. Yep. Okay.

Yeah. Awesome. I'm curious to hear how it goes back. Check back with us when the competition gets close. Yep. I want to hear it goes. All right. I can do that.

All right. You got it, man. All right, brother. All right. Thank you so much for help. I appreciate you guys. Love the show. Yeah, yeah.

Good luck, man. All right, bye. Just reminds me of that I trained a, she was 13 or 14-year-old gymnast, young lady. Her parents hired me. This was years ago. I was like 18-year-old, 19-year-old trainer.

And she was this little, you know, petite, you know, 13-year-old girl. And she jumped up on the pull-up bar, puts her legs out straight. And then this is the speed of her pull-ups. Oh, my God. It was like, and I was like, oh, my God. Is she a gymnast? She was tiny. She was a gymnast.

Yeah. And she was just, it was doing a pull-up with a leg straight out in front of her. Like, it was like, huh? It's like, oh, my God. This is ridiculous. And she was, for her size, incredibly strong. It was the first time I'd ever, like, been around a real gymnast. Yeah, if he's at 14, he said, 14, 14, he said.

14-15 already, and he's got all the way till when was it done? June. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he should be able to get to 25. Oh, at least that, at least that. Especially if he has never really trained loaded like that. He's not heavy. He weighs 185 pounds, so he should be able to do that.

Yeah, it has an increased, like, frequency. He looked fit in the video, so he's already a fit guy. He says to be mindful of not overdoing it. That would probably be the biggest mistake would be, you hear us tell him to do all these repetitions, and then he ends up trying to go to failure a lot, and then he ends up being overly sore. No, you're just practicing. Yeah. Our next caller is, my first thing.

Mike from Tennessee. What's up, Mike? You doing, Mike? Hey, fellas. Man, it's so good to see you and talk with you. Thank you for taking the time to help me with this. You got it, man. How can we help you?

Well, as I mentioned on my email, I'm a 64-year-old personal trainer in East Tennessee area. I got my personal training certification this past June. I'm super, super excited. In our area, which probably across the United States, there's just thousands and thousands of seniors, if you want to call them that. that it seemed like they've just given up on life, sedentary. I mean, go home, watch TV, sit on the couch, and they're all over in our community kind of self-existing,

or just, I don't know what the deal is, but I think our, this current generation, we still have a lot to offer and a lot to give, and I just want to help us, I guess, to be able to do that and to get healthy and to just change the mindset, I guess, because it's very prevalent. Yeah, good, Mike, this is great. This was my favorite demographic.

Favorite, favorite demographic to work with for many reasons. Yes, sir. One is they were very consistent. And I think that at that time, you know, when people were in their 60s, they were able to create a schedule of consistency. So they just showed up and they were very consistent. So for a business perspective, I like that. They were also great to be with.

The conversations were always so rich and full of wisdom. So I would sit and just learn. and talk with them. And then lastly, the most important part was they saw such tremendous value in what they got from exercise. And a lot of it was just they moved better and they didn't hurt as much. And they felt that very, very soon and very quickly. So one piece of advice I'll give you as a new trainer is get really good at correctional

exercise and mobility. That is going to be the most important, most valuable tool that you'll have in your tool belt. It's not fat loss techniques. It's not, you know, advanced, you know, bodybuildings. And that's that's correctional exercise and mobility. And then through that process, you'll open up avenues of conversation around nutrition, sleep, you know, hormones and the like. But start with pain, start with mobility. And then go and then place yourself in areas or places where you can start to help people. So there are lots of communities where you can go and offer your services for free just to meet people. You know, care homes was one example. That's a little bit of an older generation.

But you can go into a care home, offer services there for free. You can go into clubs or organizations. You know, I was a part of a couple of them here in the Bay Area. And it was, I focused on pain. And that just built a great client base for me. Mike, I'll give you some gold. Okay. So the biggest mistake a trainer will make, like you right now, is assuming or thinking at all that these people are anything like you just because you have the same age.

They have probably been sedentary for quite some time and the motivation to train and work out is going to be very, very low. So learning to meet them where they're currently at. I would start a walking group. I would do it for absolutely free. I would flyer, wherever it is that you work at.

I would go to these communities at South Day, and I would create this walking group that is free that we do on these days. If you could do it every day, it would be awesome at this time, maybe even twice a day you set it up so you can hit people in the morning and the afternoon or the night. And you just start to encourage these people to move. It's a real easy entry, right? It's like that, because you try and strength train or attract people, you're going to attract a very small percentage of people that are in that mindset of like,

I know I need a lift weights. Let's go do that. But you just get people walking. They'll do it for the social. aspect by itself because they'll like that being able to talk. And from there, you can take what Sal was saying about like really understanding corrective exercise because what will happen when you're walking with, you know, 20 people that are in their 60s plus. You're going to hear, man, my hip is driving me crazy and my knee. And then you've got the opportunity to go, hey, Susan, you know what?

That hits has been bothering you a lot. If you got some time, come by and see me or I'll come by and see you. And I'll show you some movements that will actually alleviate a lot of that chronic pain you got going on. Oh, man. And then then that opens the door for, by the way, this is, this is what I do. I'm a personal trainer. I help people with this. I've got a special passion for our community. Like that, that's the gateway. And the first goal for you is not really trying to get clients. It's how big can you make these walking groups? Can you make these walking groups so big that people notice some walking down the street? That right there will translate into a business. But focus on that. I love that. I think, I think that's, yeah, that's great advice. I think

too, like eventually you can bind both of those together where you're, you know, like at some point you're doing the walk and you can kind of introduce like more of these mobility moves, make a class out of it. We've had a lot of interest in these like mobility classes just people don't do these types of movements and they're very therapeutic and, you know, pain relieving and stress relieving. And so, you know, some kind of a merger of the two eventually. I think that would be a good fit, but definitely, you know, just build and get interest first. Do you have a our prime program yet, Mike? Yes, sir. That was, well,

my, I have a daughter and she got that for me for Christmas a few years ago. Yeah. Yeah. She noticed, yeah. She noticed some things and me that needed some work. So I, in my own life, and actually my wife's, my wife as well,

she started doing some working out and noticed the difference. But yeah, yeah, I do have, I have Prime Pro and I also I finished the OCR program. Okay. Nice. back. I'm doing some of those competitions. But I appreciate the reminder that I got to start really, really low. Really, really low. You're special, dude. You're special. You know what I'm saying? You care about this. You're already doing it. You're like that. That's not most people. And if you try and get them

to where you're at right away, you're going to have a really hard time. You've got to meet them where they are. Most of them will be very receptive and open for a nice social walk. And that's, that will be your introduction and you start it so it's a free thing. And so a lot of people should hopefully join if you do a good enough job of advertising it and telling people about it. And then that's the focus. Trainers always want to think of like, what should my price be? And it's like first just go prove you can find a community of people you can serve and help. And that's a way you can serve and help a big community and try and grow that. From that, the business will evolve. And maybe what you find out, we're telling you good correctional exercise, but maybe when you're walking with 30, 60 plus

year olds, they're asking you all diet questions. Maybe it's all related that. Maybe they want help with recipes and then the business unfolds. But start with to build the community first and offer something free and valuable, good walk with all these people. And then the other things will come after that. Yeah. Some built-in communities would be care home, church groups. Yeah, great places to pluck people. Yeah, anywhere, especially if you belong to any of these communities already, oftentimes offering a free service in that group for, you know, a specific thing like back pain. We live in a smaller area here in East Tennessee and we go to one of the churches here and we've been going there for a little bit. So I'm pretty sure. And that's the, that's the

perfect market because they're right there. So in this guy, we got a big old parking lot. I mean, we can start walking there. We got a field that we can walk on. And, um, perfect. As the church. You just say, hey, can I do a walking group with, you know, people over the age of 55 or something like that? And, uh, done. If you, if I was mentoring you, to build this business. This is exactly how I would start you. I'd say, go do that. And then I'd say, come back to me when you got 25, 30 plus people that are walking with you throughout the week. And then I'll tell you the next step. Like that's the main focus right there. And that in itself will be a big accomplishment in moving you in the direction you want to go.

Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. That'll be a good start. All right. My big question was just how to get in the door. And that's the perfect answer for it. That's it. Awesome. That's it, brother. Thank you for us. Mike. I appreciate it. Take care, man. Easy. You know, what's funny about this conversation is this is probably the one of the easiest groups to break into. So if you're like a new trainer and you're trying to get clients, this is actually one of, they love community. They love organizing. They're much more consistent. They tend to have more time. Plenty of time on their hands.

They tend to have expendable income. And so you, you know, you go into, like if you go to a church already. Pain is real for them. Yeah. And you tell the church, hey, I want to do an, I want to do a, I want to do a, a, you know, a mobility class for seniors for who have pain. And I'm a trainer. Who's going to offer for free? The church would be like, yes, sure, no problem. And you're going to have like 30 people show up right out the gates. And that group values this so much.

Like I said, when I would show them some pain relief, it was like, you had a customer for life. Yeah, I think the biggest mistake trainers make here is too fast, too soon, thinking that, like, trying to explain to them how important strength training is. And let's do that. Too much. Too much. Because what goes through their head is like, well, I got bad knees.

That's right. I just had that surgery last year. Like, they're going to go. It's just scare them what. You tell them a walk or like a stretching mobility class. Okay, I could do that. They'll show up consistently. Right.

And it's free and there's friends and there's people I can talk to. I'm telling you, you do something like this. You'll show up and you'll have people there waiting 10 minutes before the class. They'll show up and wait. I mean, I've given this advice to many trainers. And this is not a thing just for him because he's 64. If you're a young trainer and you're listening. to this. That is a massive opportunity and that is the way you start. This, we had somebody

who we hired that was lived out in a very small town one one one road downtown. It was like, how do I build a business of people? And it's like, man, can you imagine this walking group every morning at 7 a.m. with 20, 30 seniors all walking together. Would it was start with coffee. Oh, yeah. What a spectacle that would be. It's a walking billboard every single morning. It's a gold mine. It's the largest. segment of the population. It's growing. It's growing and they have the highest need for exercise, especially for pain relief. And it's a complete gold mine and trainers often don't even look at it. They tend to look in other areas. It's like, this is a big one. Our next color is Emily from Florida.

Hi, Emily. Hi, Emily. Hi. How are you guys? Good. How are you? How can we help you? This is so weird. I'm sorry. I feel like I'm just watching the podcast, but I'm on the podcast. Oh my gosh. I'm good. I'm good. Okay. Well, I do want to say just thank you guys so much for all that you do. I started listening to you guys because I was trying to find CrossFit like podcasts. And I came across your guys, which is the complete opposite was like what I was expecting. But it like literally saved me. So I really appreciate you guys as content and education. But I'll get into my email. I don't know how to split it. So I just wrote it down. Okay. So, and I'm sorry if I am jittery. I'm just nervous. No worries. Okay.

So about two years ago, I went to my doctor and on a whim, I just decided to get my cholesterol tested. They just wanted to see how everything was going. And it came out to be like, hi. At the time, they wanted to put me on statins, but they're like, well, let's see how you do. Let's see if you can do it conservatively. I was doing maps programs and Muay Thai at the time,

Before that, it did seven years of CrossFit. The cholesterol was 2.13 for my total, 113 for HDL and then 87 for LDL. And so they're like, okay, we'll give you like six months. We'll check it again. From there, I started doing Whole 30 just to kind of help clean up my, you know, diet, try to find if there's anything wrong with maybe inflammation or triggers. And I found that I had some lactose and soy intolerances. So I don't even eat that anymore.

So I feel like a thousand times better without having it. My gut's better. My energy is better. And so I take my cholesterol test again thinking, oh, this is going to be awesome. And it was the same total. So 213. My HDL went down to 111 and then my LDO was 96. And so she's like, well, now there's two.

But I was like, well, can I just try again? Let me do it again and see if I can get down lower. And so I come again. and this time I got with the coach and I got into a deficit and we started adding cardio to kind of help with my heart health. And I got it checked again. This one was a different doctor and it came back higher at 223, 100 for HDL and then LDL is 113. And so now I'm just like, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I don't know if it's my diet because I've cleaned up my diet.

I've lived still through like whole 30 for the most part of in like decontal. my calories to try to lose some weight. And so luckily the doctor is like, you know what? Like you're healthy. You're doing workouts. You're doing cardio. You're doing all the things. Maybe it's just genetics because my dad also has high cholesterol and he's like, he's like a long

distance biker. And he's on statins because his cholesterol is too high. And so I'm just trying to see if I like first, I don't like cardio. And I know because of listening to guys, I'm like, I don't have to do cardio, but should I be doing cardio for my heart? Is there something that I'm not looking or I'm not asking from the doctors, why my cholesterol would be getting worse by doing better? So that's kind of my question and see if you guys can help me

or at least point me in the right direction. Yeah, good. Great question. So should you do cardio for your heart, for overall health, it's a good idea to have a good component of stamina with strength as well. So cardio is not bad. Do you have to do it? No.

but if you want to, let's say, optimize overall fitness, some is a good idea. So a little bit would be totally fine. You'd probably notice better performance overall. When we communicate to cardio, oftentimes we're talking to people that overdo the hell out of it, or they have a specific fat loss goal. It just isn't for fat.

Yeah, like, I want to lose fat. Should I do lots of card? It's like, no, here's a better approach. So a little bit of cardio is totally fine. And I think it's good for, and I know it's good for people to incorporate it. By the way, it doesn't have to be traditional cardio. It could also be, you know, hit style.

If you're healthy, not a lot of stress, it could be a circuit. You know, one circuit workout can provide that. Higher volume of reps. High volume of reps with low rest periods. We'll give you some cardiovascular benefits. There's a lot of different ways to do that. All right, let's talk about the cholesterol. LDL is the one that is correlated with issues.

Okay? So high HDL is good. Total cholesterol, not that big of a deal. If you look at the data, I forgot to preface this by saying I'm not a doctor. So I'm a personal trainer, so I'll say that first. So LDL is the one that's connected to bad outcomes. You can get a blood test that will look at the type of LDL you have.

So LDL is general. Then there are particle sizes of LDL, and the particle sizes make a difference. So you can request a test that looks. deeper at the type of cholesterol. How should you request that? Is there a name to that test? No, I think you could just, I don't know, that's a good question. I think you would just say, I'd like to do a test that looks at particle size of my LDL.

And they should know what we're talking about. Okay. So your HDL is good. It's pretty high. Your LDL is a little high. Ideally, you'd want it below 100. Genetics do play a big role. Here are the other things that will play a role.

the type of fats that you eat tend to play a role in this in some people quite a bit some people doesn't make that big of a difference uh i could eat as much saturated fat as i want my ldl just doesn't stay it just doesn't change other people they need to reduce their saturated fat intake and replace it with other types of fats so what this would look like is if you're eating fatty red meat you can switch to grass fed meat grass fed grass fed grass finished or you could switch to other sources of fat, fish, you know, it's a great, you know, you could increase things like avocado,

olive oil, those kinds of fats. Here's the other thing. What is that called, Doug? It's called a... Yeah, NMR lipoproprofile. It's an advanced NMR lipopro profile. Okay. It's the actual number and measure the size of bad cholesterol,

which will get much more specific. Here's the other thing. There are some supplements that make a difference that are some stronger than others. So citrus burgomont, I think is it's called, can have an effect on cholesterol. Red yeast rice extract is a natural statin, and that will definitely have an effect.

So it has statin effects in the body, but it's not a pharmaceutical. You can buy it at a supplement store. And if you take that, you'll see a difference. You can also add to that high EPA fish oil. Yeah. So the clients that I've worked with who seem to be doing a lot of things right, who are otherwise healthy, who are eating well, and we see some of the stuff. We're like, well, we can improve upon this.

I've had them take high EPA fish oil, red yeast rice extract, and then they come back with great numbers. I mean, within 45 days. Can you give her an example of if she goes and gets that other blood test? They come back, they break down the HDL and they say, the LDL, excuse me. and they say that this many are the big fluffy particles. Like, what does she want to hear? They'll tell you in the test. I can't tell you off the top of my head.

But I know the test itself has parameters. So it'll tell you, you know, that your small particle LDL is too high, for example. So that test should tell you. Because the big ones are healthy and good for you. Yeah. And so if she's got more of that, less of the small ones, it'll come back as like a positive she's good.

Yeah, yeah. So that's where you get more specific. But honestly, like the red yeast rice and high EPA fish oil, I'd say probably set maybe I'm going to give you an estimate. Like 70% of my clients didn't change anything. We just took that. And they came back and they were like, great. Did they feel different? No.

Because like I don't feel, yeah, like I don't feel like I have a heart issue. Like when I run, I don't feel bad. I do jihitsu also and MMA. Oh, you're good for cardio. You'll okay. I don't have to add more than that. No, that's cardio. What are you talking about?

Okay. That's plenty. Yeah, you got a hell of cardio, girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You don't need you do extra cardio? You're good. No.

You're not going to, you're not going to necessarily feel when your cholesterol is, you know, whatever, especially if you're fit and healthy. Yeah. And this, by the way, this is one, one, you know, measurable factor. Yeah. You know, could you predict somebody's. you know, mortality accurately with an LDL that's like, you're barely elevated. You know, like probably not great. But if we combine that with like fitness, activity, diet, stress, blood pressure,

then we start to get a more clear picture. But this is one metric. But like I said, if it's weighing on you, I bet if you just took those supplements, you probably wouldn't need to change anything. And you'd see that number go and your doctor would probably be happy. Okay. Yeah, and I wasn't sure how much weight, obviously, to put on it, because it seems like, well, the more I look into it, the more I realize, like, it sometimes some people just have higher cholesterol. And I was trying to see like, okay, is there, is this number, does it even matter, you know, or, you know, what other tests?

But I'll try that other tests and see, because maybe it really isn't anything. And that's just where my cholesterol is. And I'm completely fine. I guarantee. It is genetic. It is genetic. That's because you're fit, you eat right, you know all the stuff.

It is cholesterol can be highly genetic. But also, like I said, look, here's not to, not to throw you off. But look at the data on high LDL and the elderly, and you find they live longer. There are people that argue that it's not a bad thing. Now, I've seen the data and more of the data shows that it's correlated to worse outcomes. Not like this big red flag, by the way,

unless it's super high. It's like this crazy red flag. But then there's studies on the elderly. Like the people with higher LDL get way lower cancer rates. And so there's a connection, you know, there as well. And then I had one extra question. I don't remember which podcast it was you guys talked to, but you guys mentioned that overtraining and maybe overly stress can increase the HDL that might increase the total.

Is that something to also consider? Yeah, you could throw your lipids off because you're just burnt out. Do you feel like you're over-trained? I don't know because, like, I did CrossFit for seven years, and I honestly didn't feel any different, but it, like, it felt good to do it. And then I've kind of traded CrossFit for, I still do Maps program. I do, like Performance 15, because I like to do MMA and Jiu-Jitsu. I like that aspect because I think it's more, you know, as a female, you just have to be on your toes. And so I like that aspect.

But it's kind of the same thing where I go in and do stuff and I feel fantastic. But I don't feel like I have that much energy. But then I do it and then I feel great. So I usually, it's just one of those things I just keep doing because it makes you feel good. So I don't know. How's your sleep? My sleep's fine. The only thing is I got out of my deficit and I tried to reverse diet.

And it was probably one of the hardest things in the world to reverse and try to eat more. because I know my body needed more because I was doing a lot, but I just, I had a hard time eating that much. And I don't know, part of me wonders if I'm just doing too much and not eating enough. How much are you training and what are your calories? I do the mass 15. The only time I don't do the list for that is if I'm doing MMA or Jiu-Jitsu or Open mat. So three days, I'm just, that's all I do those days because I don't want to over-train. I maybe eat between 18 to 2000, and that's like...

You're probably low. That's low. 2000 is hard to reach. Yeah, you're probably eating too little. You're low. You're low. I did jujitsu, and I know how taxing three days a week of jujitsu is. And then other days you're training.

I could only lift one day a week when I was doing jujitsu three days a week, and my lifting was three exercises moderate. And I was a 20-something-year-old male. Really difficult. for you to build any muscle while doing that. So your strain training hopefully to build some muscle, build your metabolism. That's not going to happen at 1,800 to 2,000 calories.

Training six days a week of anything. It's just too low for that. You know what's an easy way for you to bump your calories, Emily, is when you're doing your MMA and Jiu-Jitsu is to have a carbohydrate protein drink that you drink during. And so you would have like a shake with some carbohydrates in it. And so it would be an easy 300 calories that you're having, you know, kind of a little bit before, during, and after.

And so it would give you an extra, easy way to add some calories. And then one extra thing on that, when I was trying to increase my calories, I, like, it got to a point where I was literally eating bowls of cereal or Pop-Tarts, just. to get the calories in because I just could not take the volume. Is that something that's okay or should I do a different route? Yeah. What do you mean? You mean you couldn't eat, you just didn't have the appetite?

So you had to eat things that were hyper palatable? Yes. Yes. Okay, that's interesting. Especially at 1,800 calories and that much activity. Yeah. And also I'm assuming at that low of calories, we're also low on protein. So do this, if you can.

I think if you if you backed off the MMA to two days a week, maintain MAPS 15, drop the intensity, and as you start to get stronger, appetite will probably pick up a bit. Okay. Yeah, because here's what overtraining looks like appetite-wise. Low appetite with a lot of cravings. Okay. So overtraining tends to make you not like, you're like, I'm not hungry, but then you have cravings And it's hyper palpable food.

So that's kind of what it sounds like. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Yep. Okay.

Well, thank you guys. I appreciate that. I'll definitely, I'll have to listen to the episode again so I can get the supplement list. But yeah, I appreciate all that you guys do. And yeah, I will take that into consideration because I do want to eat more. I know my body needs it. I just, I got to get there. Yeah.

All right. Well, good. Yeah. All right. All right. All right, Emily. Of course. Thank you.

Bye, guys. I'm glad we got to the training part. Yeah, she's overtrained. She's over trained. For sure, she's over trained. And MMA Jitsu is intense. I mean, it's less than probably what she was doing with CrossFit, like in terms of her schedule. But yeah, all of that added up is still a lot.

Oh, yeah. And I'm glad she mentioned her food because you guys have experienced this. Like, when you're over training, it's like you just have craving. Yeah. It's not like a normal appellant. Well, yeah. And if you're you're struggling to get to $1,800 to $1,000 that you need Pop Tarts and so that. I mean, that means you're actually only eating like $1,300, what,

good calories. And how many brown of protein? Yeah. Which means you're also missing dramatically on protein. Yeah, yeah. No, she's, she's overtrained. Which now, Sal, will, will over-training and under-eating like that, will it really start to mess with her blood lipids?

It can. It can. It can. It can. How fast. Is that the body, like, like a protective mechanism that it's doing? Maybe. Oh, interesting.

Yeah, maybe. Especially with more inflammation, you know, you start to see some, some results from that, you know, from inflammation. Which, obviously, real tough to recover. when you're training that much and you're eating that little. Your body's probably in a permanent state of kind of... But, you know, it's interesting. Cholesterol, there's a really strong genetic component in some people.

Well, her dad's a major runner and sounds really fit and he still has, still has... Yeah. And like mine, like mine don't change. Yeah. I could eat only saturated fat and it just stays the same. And I know other people that just look at, you know... Do they still really consider that a huge risk factor? Is that just something you can control?

Total cholesterol, if it's really high as an issue. Yeah. And is it paired with other things, too, or independent? Yeah, there's a, there's a condition called hypercholestemia, I think it's called, where people have like, no numbers like four or five hundred. Then you start to see some issues. But, you know, you're a little bit over 200. Everything else is good.

You're probably okay. I was just say, and you're fit. You do all these things. You don't have any other. LDL is the one. And then if you look closer, particle size is even better. Our next color is Ashley from Iowa. Hi, Ashley.

How doing, Ashley? Morning. Hi, guys. This is so crazy actually being on here. How can we help you? So thanks so much for having me. My husband and I were big fans of you guys. We've listened to you guys for a couple of years now and have learned a lot for you guys.

So thank you. Great. So I'll just go ahead and dive into my email here that I had sent, although some things have changed for the better, honestly, since submitting this. Thanks to you guys. And also, we were able to meet with one of your coaches, Tyler, a couple months ago. Oh, good. And got some good insight from him. So that was really cool.

Awesome. So I'm a 36-year-old working wife and mom. About 5-8, 130 pounds. I struggled with an eating disorder for about 15 years of my life. Continue to work on improving my mindset around food and body image. I was also diagnosed with Hashimoto's about 10 years ago and have worked with a functional med doctor for the past couple of years. to address gut and hormonal issues.

I currently supplement with testosterone, esterodal, and progesterone, but still haven't. I still don't get like a regular period for over six years. Nutrition-wise, I follow a mostly whole food diet and avoid gluten and most dairy. I try to eat around 22, 50 calories a day, and am working towards reaching 2,500 with a protein goal of 130. However, I find it challenging to increase calories without also increasing fiber too much, which often leads to constipation. Fitness has been a huge part of my life for over a decade, and for the past six years since meeting my husband, I've focused more on strength training. My husband and I share this passion and even built our own personal studio gym,

which we do hope to turn into a business one day. We've worked with a trainer last year, and I was able to get up to about 136 pounds, but then I began to feel inflamed, and my digestion worsened. So I did quit working with the trainer. I backed down, and with that little bit of a cut,

I did see the gains that I had built with getting up to the 136. One of my biggest struggles is that every time, I start to gain muscle and my clothes begin to fit tighter. I find myself mentally pulling back. I know this is tied to my past struggles with body image, but I am unsure how to overcome that fear while pursuing strength and health goals. I did complete performance and aesthetic programs this past year,

and my husband and I quickly learned that aesthetic is too much volume for us. And Tyler guided us into starting. the 40 plus, which we are on week six right now, I believe. Awesome. We definitely feel like that fits our lifestyle a lot better. So my ultimate goal is to overcome the mental block, gain muscle and strength, and would love to help others someday.

Most recently after meeting with Tyler, I have got my calories back up to 2,600 and are hitting my protein consistently about 130 to 150 daily. I've done this for about 10 weeks now and I'm up six pounds. I'm starting to feel the mental struggle at this point. I'm wondering if this is too fast of a gain, how long I should bulk,

if it would be okay to cut soon as we're going on vacation beginning of February. And also like what is the best program for me? Good. I could see your shoulders and arms through your long. long-sleeved shirt, so I think you're doing pretty good, just so you know. You're, you're, uh, are you working with Tyler regularly or was it just you met with him? No, it was just like a free Zoom call. Got it.

Yeah. Yeah. So the best thing you could do, Ashley, for everything you asked is to continue working with a coach. So this process, having someone guide you is going to be the best thing you could do with the whole mental issue around reverse dieting, my weight, all that stuff. It's also going to help you with your business, because you're going to be a lot of going to work with someone who's built a business around coaching.

And so you can ask questions around or just observe how it's organized. So I think it's going to set you up for being a good coach as well. And then, you know, lastly, actually, you're going to have to stop weighing yourself and really looking at yourself in the mirror along. There's no other way around it. Because you don't need, you shouldn't go back on a cut. Six pounds is not only six pounds good that you gain, you probably need to gain more. Yep.

And I think this is probably tied to your period. You're probably in the teens and body fat percentage, which you probably need to be in the low 20s to start to get regular menace and to feel really good. So I would suggest a few things. I wouldn't weigh myself at all. I would only pay attention to strength. I wouldn't study myself in the mirror.

So that means you can get ready and stuff like that. But you know what I mean when we kind of look in the mirror and study our bodies. don't study yourself in the mirror. And I would also avoid clothing that tends to trigger you, which is probably tighter fitting clothing. And that's really because here's what's going to happen. All of those are going to serve as reminders that, uh-oh, I'm gaining away or what's happening or I need to question this whole process.

So you got to get, you got to just disconnect from those things for a while. So you can move in the right direction. Otherwise, it's going to keep pulling your back. Yeah, the first part of this process is except the understanding it's you who is getting in your own way. There's not a mathematical equation, a macro diet we have for you, an exercise plan that's going to solve this equation. You're good at that part. Like you probably are somebody who will follow the plan and do the thing.

It's the mental game that you're struggling with, all the things and stuff that Sal is talking about. And this is the value of having somebody that coaches you outsource that. They're the ones who are making decisions. They're the one who's steering this ship. I'm going to trust in them to guide me to the right place. They're the professional, even though you probably know what to do exercise, you know what to do all those things, but you have also accepted and you know I continue to get in my own way.

And so I'm going to defer. I'm going to defer. I'm going to outsource this and trust the process. That in itself is challenging, incredibly challenging. So I'm with Sal. I think this is one of those situations where we could sit down and write out the perfect plan for you. That's not why you will face. or not get there.

It's literally only your self will stop that from happening. And having somebody help you through that process is the most important part. To put it differently, Ashley, what it would look like is you work with a good coach and you have complete submission, meaning you just do what they tell you, because if you listen to your body, you're going to go in the wrong direction. Because your body,

because of your past and because of your relationship with your body and fitness, if you listen to your body, it's going to tell you you're eating too much. start cutting. Don't do that. Pants aren't fitting right. And it's like all these, but if you submit to your coach and just do what they tell you and ignore your body for the time being, then you'll start to, you'll be able to develop a new relationship with fitness, but it's a process.

And part of what they've been taught by us and they will help you through this process is starting to connect the dots to all the other things. Like you have a default pattern of what you connect the dots to. How my pants feel? How do I look in the mirror? What does the scale say? They're going to be asking questions like, like, how's your energy? How's your libido? How's your strength? How's your strength? Yeah. How's your mood? They're going to start to

help you detach from the things that you measure your fitness success by and start to attach to the things that really matter and more important and will guide you towards health. And that's a process. It's not as easy as like, okay, just focus on these things actually going forward. And you're like, okay, got it. I'll do it. It's like, no. Well, we'll always keep falling back to our default patterns. They're going to help. That's what they're going to be constantly reminding you of. And then, then all of a sudden it's going to click. It's going to be like, oh, wow, okay, I see it, I feel it. And then you still end up getting the thing you want, the goals that you have, but it's like it's a process of detaching from those old patterns. Yeah, I definitely struggle with like that number on the scale.

I try not to weigh very often, but I stepped on it the other day. It was 132, which I had gotten down to about 126 after working with the trainer and I had cut a while. And for some reason, that number, it's just... Of course. Of course. You can't wait yourself. Actually, let me tell you how irrelevant it is. You're 5-8.

So my ex was 5-8, and she walked around at 180 pounds, and she competed on stage, ripped, shredded with abs at 170, okay? So weight is so irrelevant. Same height as you, walked around at 180, all that, like, it's irrelevant. I can put a number that's 20 pounds on top of that and make you look even better than you look already. So it's like, and so you've got to get past that. You've got to get past that, that number has anything to do with your health and fitness. It has nothing to do with your health and fitness.

In fact, it's hurting your health and fitness by focusing on. In your case, it's not, it's anti-health. Yes. So do something like this, Ashley. Say I'm not, because if I just say don't weigh yourself, it's like open-ended. So just say, I'm not going to weigh myself for 90 days or six months, something like that. Something you commit to. Yeah.

And here's what will happen. You're going to hate it at first. You're going to be curious. Oh, God, I just, how much? I feel like I'm gaining weight. Like what's going? But after about 30 days, you'll kind of stop thinking about it as much. And 60 days in, you're going to be like, this is really freeing.

This feels really freeing. But it's going to take a second. Now, the important thing, though, Ashley is the coach. The coach is going to walk you through this process. It's really, like, your best bet is. that work with someone. Plus, you have your question about building your business. One of the best ways to learn how to build a business in personal training is to be mentor by. That's right. I mean, at the bare minimum, if you don't get the one-on-one coaching with one of

our trainers, the Muscle Mommy group with Nicole and with Corrin that are leading that would be extremely valuable because there's many, there's lots of women that are coming from a similar places. You inside that community, they meet once a week virtually with the ladies. And, so if you can't do a one-on-one situation, which I highly recommend, the next best thing in my opinion that we do is the muscle mommy group. That's led by Corinne and Nicole. And Corinne has also openly talked about. She's struggled with this in the past herself and was a competitor. And so she can relate and a great person to talk to.

And so if you haven't spoken to her or talked to her, that group is extremely valuable. Okay. Well, I mean, six pounds in 10 weeks is that? Yeah. Great. It's awesome. For someone like you, yes. We could have done 10 or 12.

Yeah. Could have done 10 or 12. Okay. I struggle with knowing just like, is this fat? Is it muscle? Does it matter? Listen. Does it matter?

Right now it doesn't matter. I'll give you an answer, Ashley. Okay. You need to gain some body fat too. But I know you don't want to hear that. Yeah. No. But to be healthy, you need to gain some body fat too.

It's not just muscle. But I know you don't want to hear that. And if you're lifting weights and you're gaining weight like that, You're fine. Most of it's muscle. And even if, with Sal's point, even if a couple pounds of it was body fat, that's still good.

It's good. It's the right direction. I've had female clients, Ashley, where we fix their, in order to fix their hormones, their health, we had to gain body fat. They just did not have enough body fat on their body.

And most women, if they're walking around in the teens, consistently, especially if they have a background of eating disorder, it's not enough. Yeah. By the way, a low 20s and fit is a great body fat percentage. Yeah, I know. I listen to you guys constantly. And so I hear this stuff all the time. And it's like, my husband tells me, you just, you need to, you need to do it on yourself.

Like, what would you tell somebody else? You know, like. Yeah. Get a coach. Yeah. It is so hard. Yeah. For like a workout program, though, it's 40 plus. Yeah. Fine. That's fine. That's perfect. Yeah. 40 plus is good, symmetry is good, anabolic would be good. All the 15 models are good for you. All the 15 models will be good for you. Again, like this is where I want to be careful. This is not a mathematical equation for you. This is not a program issue. This is not a macro issue. That's not your challenge. It's like there's nothing we're going to say program wise, diet wise right now that is going to solve the challenge that you're having right now. This is why we keep going back to the having a cut. You just need someone every week when you check in.

and go like, you're doing great. Love what I see. Love what's going on. Love what I hear. You're doing great. And then you can pour on to me. I don't like the way this and you say all those things. And I'm like, hey, it's okay.

You're doing great. You're doing great. That's it. Adam's girl voice. Oh, I forget. I piss some people out, but I do that. Actually, I'll tell you what. Let me sell this to you, okay?

Here's what this will feel like later for you. Because you already love fitness, but it's not going to be stressful anymore. Yeah. It's going to be a really. really nice relationship. It's not going to feel like this thing that is kind of lording over you all day, where you're counting and paying attention and where every, you know, you're kind of moving always in this direction or thinking about,

it's going to feel stress less, not stressful. And that is going to be so freeing for you. I do feel like I have to track food, though, in order to eat enough. Or if I'm wanting to get to the $2,600, I have to track. Yeah, initially. Protein is that I have. To track. Protein would be the main thing I have ever.

Yeah. If your tendencies to under eat, then, yeah. And this is where you'll start. But eventually you'll end up in a place where you don't. But yeah. I mean, I guess I've worked with clients like you. And we had to track because if I just let them eat what, you know, how they felt, like it's like it come in at 1,200 calories every day.

Yeah. And so when do I get to a point where I can, like, cut and see the benefit? That's hard for us to answer right now. You know? Could be a couple months. could be here. Yeah. It's hard to say.

At some point, you're going to have to, honestly God, you're going to have to let go. Your mindset might completely change and surprise you to. Make peace with never cutting again. I'm not saying you're not going to cut. But if you keep thinking yourself, I'm doing this so that I can cut later,

you miss the point. We're not fixing it. We're not fixing the problem. It's not going to get better. So the goal would be to be at 2,600 calories for good. Yes. Yes. The goal is definitely in high teens.

The goal is to be able to, get you a regular period. Yes. To have you feeling good. Healthy. Yes. For you to feel free, for you to feel like you're not having to check on things and weigh yourself all the time. You'll look amazing too. The side effect of that's going to be. You're going to look better than you've ever looked. Yeah. Part of the success story is I did have my period come back this month. Wonderful. All right. Just simply bumping those calories. Look at that. Yeah.

Yeah. Look at that. That's awesome. That's good news. See, moving in the right direction. You are. Moving in the right direction. Okay, can I ask you something about 40 plus? Yeah. So my husband and I were wondering about like the sprints and the steady state cardio. Like we question whether we're doing it right. We've chose running as the cardio just because that's the equipment that we have. Do you like when you do the sprints, do you sprint and then like jump off the treadmill and just rest for a minute?

Or do you walk or how is that supposed to be? done. So let your heart rate come all the way back down. If that means jumping off of it or you can push it all the way back down to like a two and a half speed or something, the goal is, the goal is to, like intervals, right? So you're getting after it really fast and just to spike the heart rate up. And then you, and every, this is where everyone's going to be. This is why it's really hard to program something generically for the end. I cool down better with a slow walk.

Yeah, real slow walk. Like that's why I said, go back down to like two and a half walk. And the time frame is less important. So it's like how long the next question is normally. How long do I do that for? Well, it's until you feel your heart rate come all the way back down. You can have a conversation. Which might take a while.

You can right. Yeah, exactly. It might take you two minutes. Might take somebody else a minute and a half. Might take your husband. Three minutes. It would take me 10 minutes. Right.

Everybody's different. So I'm waiting to feel my heart rate come down. A generic way to do that without measuring a heart rate is like you should be able to have a convert. You should be able to talk test. Walking on it next to your husband. And you guys are having a full blown conversation just like if you were walking outside. Now my heart rate's down. Now I can go again.

And then I, And then that's how I'm doing it. And so less about the time, more about that feeling of spiking it all the way up and then letting it come all the way back down. Okay. And what would be the best program to follow after of 40 plus? Have you done symmetry yet? No. Oh, yeah, do symmetry.

Symmetry or any of the 15s? Yeah. I like all the 15s for her too right now. Ashley, can I have someone call you? Yeah. Okay. I'll have somebody call you. Okay, cool.

Yeah, let's get you. All right, Ashley. Thanks, Ashley. You got it. Okay. Thank you guys. You got it. All right.

Got this. That's the look of someone who heard what they need to hear that doesn't want it. I just. The resistance. I get it. It's tough. I forgot. I forgot about the people that don't like the, my girl voice.

And if you come to me, hey. You know what? I feel like that maybe maybe the audience hasn't heard me doing it. to a guy yet because I don't have to the guy when I'm if I have to repeat if I have to repeat a dude

I'll do the same thing I'll do the same thing to a dude that I have to keep You should do a girl voice for a dude just to mess with someone if you come to me

do like 80s bully voice I was yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah just to balance it out it's so condescending it's like calm the fuck down calm the fuck down

relax this way till he does his other races it's terrible wait till I hear that just kidding look if Go ahead, go ahead.

No, it's tough is that, I mean, even at all the time they kept saying it to her, she kept asking program questions, scale questions. She needs a coach. Yeah, that is not the problem here. The problem is not. Coaches need coaches all the time. The problem is not the math in the situation. It is not that whatsoever.

There's not an answer in a calorie amount. There's not an answer in a macro. There's not an answer in what program to run. This is literally the mental challenge. you've struggled with taking care of your body and being healthy, and you have attached that to a look in the mirror and or the scale. That's right. And it is extreme, and by the way, extremely common.

Yep. So, and there's like a spectrum of this. She, I mean, God bless her for coming on and being open enough to share that she's had this eating disorder that she struggled with for 15 years. That's, that's one into the spectrum. Most people fall somewhere on that line. Maybe they didn't have a full-blown disorder that they'll admit, but a lot of people are on that pathway of that this, this, this steers it. Maybe they're not like crazy obsessive about it enough where they would say, I have an eating disorder.

But most people have attached their success and results so much to the scale and mirror. They're getting in their own way. So that's all. She needs to get out of her own way. Totally. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's at Mind Pump.

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