Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 2762: Roxanne Saffaie Gets Us Emotional Reminiscing The Past 10 Years

Episode Date: January 1, 2026

Endlessly beginning and living to express yourself at the highest level. (2:31) "Those who live truly, shall see truly." Her introduction and special connection to Mind Pump. (5:40) Creating the trend, not following the trend. (12:47) Factors that keep the vitality of a relationship intact. (18:36) The difference between teammates and friends. (32:14) The conflicting feelings growing in the public eye. (36:46) Stay authentic. (46:04) The lives lived during Mind Pump's tenure. (49:44) Pivoting the business, stretching your capacity, and the value of a GOOD personal trainer. (59:04) "Would you have it any other way." (1:04:50) The myth of having certainty. (1:07:36) Making peace with the worst outcome. (1:09:49) Breaking through limiting beliefs. (1:11:53) Being the example. (1:18:04) How to develop good masculinity. (1:20:22) Highlighting not so seen honorable traits. (1:24:18) Where do you hope to be 10 years from now? (1:47:47) Related Links/Products Mentioned Visit Seed for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! ** Code 20MINDPUMP for 20% off your first month of Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic. ** MAPS 15 Symmetry 50% off! ** Code DECEMBER50 at checkout. ** Mind Pump Store Mind Pump # 474: Arya Saffaie Lifetime Natural Men's Physique 2X Olympia Athlete Mind Pump # 2505: The Story of Mind Pump (10 Year Anniversary Special) The Start of Mind Pump | Mini Documentary Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube Mind Pump Free Resources Featured Guest/People Mentioned Roxanne Saffaie (@roxylook) Instagram Website Podcast Arya Saffaie IFBB Pro (@arya_saffaie) Instagram Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (@drgabriellelyon) Instagram Simon Sinek (@simonsinek) Instagram

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, this is unique. We've never done this before.

We had somebody in the studio, a good friend of our Roxanne Safai. We've known her for a long time. She has a great podcast called The Roxanne Show. She came in to interview us for her podcast. Now, the show turned out to be amazing. She asked us some of the best questions anyone's ever asked us in a podcast. And it was great because we got to reminisce on the years we've been together. It's now been 10 years.

We liked it so much. We got quite emotional, in fact, in this episode that we thought we would drop it on our channel. So if you've been listening to Mind Pump for a long time, you want to hear how we got started and what makes us tick. and with somebody that knows that asked those questions and asked them the right way. That's what today's episode's all about. So we'd like to thank Roxanne for this episode

and thank her for letting us post it on our channel. And again, if you're a fan of Mind Pump, we know you're going to like this episode. Now, you can find Roxanne on her podcast, a Roxanne show. You can also find her on Instagram at Rock Seed Look. So that's R-O-X-L-O-K. Now, this episode is brought to you by a sponsor,

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work on balancing the body, developing an aesthetic physique. It's 50% off because it's a brand new program. You got to get it here, though. Go to 15symmetry.com. Use the code December 50 for the discount. All right, real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to Mind Pumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. I was a celebrity makeup artist.

Right. That's how I met my fucking ultimate teammate who's in this room right here, Kerry. Yeah. Right. And so the highest expression in martial arts is what? Black Belt. Right. And to me...

Oh, I got it. Black Belt Beauty. But no, it's not even the beauty thing. Oh. That's right. Yeah. Man, is she messing up? It's done.

No. Jiu-no. This is why I changed it. Nobody fucking got it right. People have the name. But no, to me, to live the highest expression, the most beautiful life, is to live from the highest expression of yourself.

Right. Right? So that's where I was overly poetic, probably, which I can totally be at times, because I'm a writer, you know? But, yeah, four years ago is when I rebranded. And that was a big deal, because I was already, so December is year eight that I've been podcasting, which is fucking heavy.

Makes us feel hard. It's really a big deal. You know what that puts you in a special category. Yeah, yeah. I know. Not a lot survived. No. Oh, the stats on it are crazy.

First of all, the average only make it to 12 episodes. Yeah. Then the even that percent. Yeah, yeah. How's the show been growing? How's it been doing? It's great. I mean, it's top 1%, but that's still, I don't want to put it down.

I don't want to say it doesn't mean anything to me, but it's still, the beautiful part for me is, that I feel like I'm endlessly beginning, right? Like, it's always, there's always another level. There's always more to grow into. However, I, it's fun though. Oh, it's beyond fun. It's Dharma. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I'm living my fucking Dharma. I came here to do this amongst other things, but this is me expressing myself at the highest level, right? This is connection, creation, and, you know, on the flight here, I publish an essay every week on Substack. And I decided to write about this experience with you guys as this week's essay. Oh.

Yeah, it's really, it actually got me really emotional. Oh, yeah. Well, for a couple reasons. Should we put this on air? Is it out? Yeah. Oh, you're not recording? No.

Is it up? No. Oh, no, no. Let's get this going because we're going to lose all this amazing content. I've been recorded. Yeah, but we got to make sure the video's going there. Where are you at, Dee? You're going to go?

Yeah. It sounds like, let's make sure we catch her all this when you're talking about us. I want to make sure. Well, no, this is good. You know what's going to tell us his brain goes with there. I don't know what she's going to say. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I want to record before you talk about how awesome I am.

You know what got me in the podcast. I saw you, morons. I can totally do this. These three assholes could do this. Dude, I can definitely do this. He can do it. Oh, my God, I'm going to crush. It's all right.

We got a lot of people in the podcasting that exactly. These guys can barely have two brains cells of them up together. You guys are fucking hilarious. You got the times? All right, we're good. All right, so, okay, you were saying you were. So on my flight here to come sit in this very special chair in this moment with you guys, I decided that my essay for the week, I publish an essay every week on Substack.

that I would be kind of sharing a journal entry. And this journal entry would be about you guys and about this experience right now. This vision that I've held for now, so it's November right now, December will be eight years since I started podcasting, right? And I've had the vision of sitting here with all of you since I started my show.

In fact, before the show, because... So my brother, Aria Safai, was a guest on your show. in 2017. Not fucking wild. It's a long time ago. It's a long time ago. I had so much hair back then.

I almost had hair back in actually. 2017? I might have hair in two. You have muscle? I have hair in two dozen? Yes, you did. Guy. Do I have hair in 2017?

Yeah, you sure did. I did. I did. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Well, yeah, it was crazy, right? It doesn't seem like that long ago.

No, it doesn't. It was a long time ago. Yeah. at 2025 right now. And, you know, and I went back and I listened to that episode actually in preparation for this moment right now, which was so special for so many reasons. But he introduced me to you guys. Like, hey, I think you'd really like their show.

And I was super into podcasting back then, right? I was listening to Tim Ferriss, Tom Bill You, and then tuned into you guys. And I was fucking hooked. And I was hooked for several reasons, some of which we will totally tear open and talk about today. Authenticity was number one. It's felt, it's easy for me to feel it because that is just how I function, how I've always functioned, right? So it's, it's Emerson's quote, those who live truly shall see truly. I really, I really believe that, right? Yeah. Love Emerson. And so I got so into you guys. And at that time, too, I started lifting heavy weights. Finally, because my brother's

been telling me for so long, and I grew up in the 80s. I was like cardio, no, I don't want to get fucking bulky. That's why hearing about your daughter and lifting is super special because I didn't grow up at that time, you know, it's different now. And you guys, I believe, have a big part of, you have created so much impact in that way on just how, as a woman, I'll speak to it, how we feel about our bodies being strong and how to get strong. So. Thank you. Yeah, no, thank you. And so as I'm on the flight and I'm writing this essay, I'm like, fuck, man, this is so special because, number one, I had this vision and it's now happening, right? Number two, you guys have been sort of like spiritual podcast brothers to me because, Sal, you, I mean, it's incredible and I want everyone to fucking hear this or watch this moment. But I remember before I launched the show, I did a couple of solosodes. I call him solo sores.

and I sent them to you because you said, let me hear of them so I can, I mean, you may not even remember this, but this is one of those moments where I'm one of those people. I never forget where I come from, ever, right? And you so graciously were like, let me listen. And you told me you're like, you're a natural, you're going to do great. You even gave me fucking great advice that I didn't, it didn't register, like how to get the show in the top one, whatever, anyways. But as I've been journeying now, again, close to eight years, which, you know, which I've been, is such a, it's a big deal. So being here with you guys is a big deal because it reflects back to me that I'm fucking here. Like, holy shit. But also, what's been so special. And I really, I really trust

that you're going to feel this from my heart because it's the only place I fucking speak from. But I have been cheerleading you guys on in spirit this whole way through and to see you, like to sit in your studio now to know and witness all of your incredible growth is so true. tremendous and it's so deserved. And, and I'll close on this before we, when I started thinking about the idea of success, whenever the fuck that was, maybe high school or I don't even know. No, it had to been a little bit later when I started deeply thinking about what is success to you, right? Not society's ideas, because I've never subscribed to any of that, right? Maverick, for sure. But like, what does it really mean to you, Roxanne? And for me,

It's I just want to be who the fuck I am. I want to evolve as authentically because, you know, we, I was just telling Carrie at 47 now, I've lived, I've calculated this, I've lived like 10 lives. So I want to honor my authentic evolution. I want to be free to express myself. I want to be free, right? And to be free, authenticity is a huge part of it. And when I look at all three of you sitting here, you guys have fucking done it. And done doesn't mean you're done.

There's still so much more to go. But you've truly done the thing. You have been you the whole way fucking through. And you've built from ground zero to a massive brand and business, which are really two different things. Yes, they go together, but they're two different things. You've done it with heart. You've done it with fucking soul and you've done it with the deepest level of integrity. And I'm just honoring you all.

What a compliment. What a compliment. Huge compliment. Thank you. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. I love that.

Speechless. I know. I know. Yeah. You're all emotional. I get all emotional. I feel that though. You know, I really do.

I think that we did do it our own way. And a lot of times that path is far more narrow and harder. It is. You know? It takes longer. but it's so much more rewarding. You know, to sit here to be able to do this 11 years later and not feel like we've drifted from ourselves at all.

We just talked about this on a recent episode of that how crazy it is and how insidious you can become the algorithm. And I think even people, even people with good hearts and good intention, like they start putting themselves out there and they start to get rewarded or liked or shared because they do a thing. And then it's like, oh, let me do a little more. of that thing.

Right. And it's just like this, this real slow drift from who you are. And then all of a sudden you get rewarded for it and you get praised and you get money and you get success and adoration and all this and it's like, and you wake up one day and you're like,

oh shit. Like, who am I? Who am I? And you got all this attention, you got all this fame, you got money, all the things that you thought were you were chasing and you're so unhappy because you're not really yourself.

I can't tell you how many really famous popular people we get to meet and talk to. And when the mics are off, you can feel that energy from one. You want to know, you want to, I mean, if you want a little behind the scenes on some of that. So I was just having this conversation with these guys. I was just driving. I was praying. And I was just thinking about how blessed I've been and how I used to think how awesome I was.

And realizing that a lot of it is, some people would say luck. I think it was just blessing to have these partners that would check me and that we would check. We have so much respect for each other that we can do that and it not be like this personal defensive. It might sting, but we do that for each other. And just behind the scenes, like relatively recently, we had hired, and I like sharing the story because it's not easy. We hired somebody who understood the YouTube algorithm. And so his job for us, when we hired him, was, I'm going to help your podcast do a lot better on YouTube. Now, we do okay on you.

You do pretty well on YouTube, but there's channels out there that are just, you know, three million subscribers and, you know, the channel itself is generating all this revenue. And it's like, you know, if we have this great show,

this, you know, great impact, like, are we missing something? Can we do something better and reach more people? So this guy gets on and he's trying to help us with the algorithm.

And so what he would do is he would send titles that he, that he, through his, you know, analyzing would do well. And they would get more clicks and more views. And Roxanne, it started to, it felt not good. We could feel it. It didn't feel good. It wasn't the same.

Now, we would take his title and do it in our way, kind of, and kind of shoe horn so it was authentic because we couldn't just outright be something else. But it definitely wasn't, we definitely took the compass and turned it a little bit. And we could feel it. We were getting more views and we were getting more attention, but it wasn't feeling great. And I remember there was a point, I think it was our Christmas party.

Justin and I were looking at each other. And I'm like, man, during the podcast, it's been feeling sucky. He's like, yeah, dude. And I'm like, you know, we're trying to follow the trend when what we've done from day one is either create the trend or miss big.

Like that's what we've done. Instead of all it's done. Yeah. And so we fired the guy. And we got rid of them and went back to we're going to go, what we feel is helping people. And it's a billion times more rewarding. But we even, I mean, it's hard because you run a business, you employ people. And it's really easy to say, well, it's going to reach more people.

And if we want to reach people, then there's a better way to reach people. And maybe we can do it in this way or that way. But it was taking us away from what you're talking about, that authenticity, which, you know, by the way, way that comes from, it's training people, coaching people. That's where we got that. Didn't last very long though. No. No. How long do you last? Six months? No. I was listening. No. What do you say?

Six months? Four to six months. Yeah. It wasn't long, bro. No, it wasn't long. Yeah, it wasn't long. Yeah. But it didn't feel good. I mean, that's right. Why? We felt it really quick. It was just like, okay, this doesn't feel right, but let's see. And it was just like, no, it didn't happen. No. No. And that takes a lot of guts. It does to be able to,

Maybe to the three of you, it doesn't feel that it, you know, guts is involved. But it's really, like you said, it's so easy. And Adam said, like, you're getting more clicks. You're getting more views. You want this stuff, right? You want to grow. And you can rationalize with that part of it. Like more views, more people being helped.

You can even, like, position it that way. But when you have a strong sense of self-integrity, I mean, that's, you're in contention with your own, you know, in that situation, you're in contention with your integrity. And I think that an integrity is so special and so important to me. It's such a really important top core value attribute. And so I think it does take guts when you are in a business and you're in it to grow, to scale, and you find yourself in a situation. You know how many times we've said this in a meeting? Like, one of us have said this. I think each of us at one point said something similar It's like, I'll burn this down and start over so long as I could work with these guys.

And so, okay, if it doesn't work and the whole thing gets destroyed, we'll start over. But I don't know if you could do this in the right way without that attitude because otherwise you become tyrannized by this thing that you're chasing. That becomes your, you start to twist and shape all your, either your moral, or your goals towards this thing that you're aiming for, which is a terrible thing to serve. Yeah, it's almost kind of going back to that story. Like, it's a blessing that it didn't work. Yeah. And we kind of talked about that is, you know, because we do want to grow.

And we do want to reach more people and we want all those things, you know, for the business. But if it's not who we are and it's not what we've been doing and, you know, who cares? Who cares? It's not worth it. It's just not, it didn't feel, it didn't resonate with us. And so we'd rather get the success from, you know, knowing that we're helping people and we're doing things the way that we would do it. Well, because I think you define success in that way. Yeah. Right. To do it the other way, sure, metric wise, maybe money wise, you know, attention wise, somebody could say that's success. But to you three, and I'm with you, that that's not successful. If you have to step out of your. integrity and who you truly are, then it's, then what is that really? Like, I have a question. So I, I, I'm distilled because, first of all, I'm a street fucking philosopher and all three of you are too. So we are going to go deep in philosophy. So I, I like to think about ideas, play with them

when I wake up at fucking 3.34 in the morning, sitting there in the dark with my red light. And I was, you know, recently thinking about relationships and what does it really take and all kinds of relationships. So friendships, business, partnerships, what does it really take to keep the vitality of a relationship intact? And vitality, when I use that word very strategically, meaning so it's kind of like health span, not just longevity, right? but like how do you keep these healthy years going as long as they can, right? So in a relationship. And this was very bold of me because obviously relationships are super complex, right? But I have distilled it down to two factors that I feel play the largest role in the vitality of a relationship.

Factor number one is the degree at which your consciousness aligns. And number two is your values. So my question, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. And then there's a question that when you guys started, when you came together to start mind pump, do you feel that back then your consciousness and your values were already very much in alignment? And has, you know, the past 11 years of you working together, has it just become more in alignment? Has what's your take on? That's an interesting thing. I would put something above those two things, actually.

Okay. Selflessness. Yeah. At least that's... I was going to say agape, which is sacrificial love. Yeah, selflessness. I think that true selflessness. I mean, I think that's what served my marriage. I think that's what served this relationship. It's easy to say it's harder to truly practice. Yeah.

Right? To not count what the other person is or isn't doing and focus, but focus on what can I do for them. I think if you enter into any relationship with that attitude, what comes from that is this incredible, beautiful, growing relationship. And sometimes that requires you to go through a period of time when maybe you don't feel like you're receiving a lot on the other end and you're giving so much of yourself. But if you truly believe and that's the path to a deep, meaningful relationship, then it'll get there eventually.

I'll give you a personal, like a clear one, example of what Adam's saying. I, we started the podcast and I very shortly after got divorced. So this is 15-year marriage, two kids, devastating, devastating. And I brought my best here, which was 10%. That was the most I could offer my partners when I showed up. And I really, really cared about this business. I cared about my partners. But I was just crushed.

And these guys held me up for, probably years, probably two or three years when I was giving, and knowing I was giving 10%, and that was the most I could give, and they held me up that whole time. And so in a traditional example of a relationship, they would have been very justified to look at me and go, what are you doing, dude? You're giving us 10%.

You're not, you're equal partners. You know, you've got to show it more. Yeah. But they held me up. Yeah. They held me up. And I did what I could do, and there's things that I could bring. But it was 10% of sale.

Yeah. And that's all they got. And they held me up. So now the loyalty that it'll create, which I already, they already had my loyalty. But after that, it's like, they just solidified it. So that's, I think, what Adam's talking about with that. I sort of categorize both in the consciousness zone, though. Because when we are higher, like, and I'm not, it's not better than everyone, every soul has their

journey, right? And you are where you are. But if our souls, consciousness, are in more in alignment, then I do believe that the more that one's consciousness is expanded or elevated, we are also able to be less self-centric and to have that empathy and that grace and that patience. because I think I really believe that comes with being a higher conscious individual, right? So I kind of group put it into. Yeah. It's interesting though because I think like what's so what came to mind for me right at why I wouldn't put it above the selflessness is that I mean when we first started this, Sal was atheist. That couldn't be farther from my consciousness and my belief.

I have a very deep spiritual connection in relationship with God and have my whole life. And so he was very science-based and approached the way he looked. Materialist. Yeah, very different than me. But yet we were able to still very much so align and connect on other values. I do agree that that would be a top five thing. Like, I think you have to have. Because nonetheless, his value for people, his selflessness, his heart, those things were very much so aligned.

And I mean, I had the pleasure of, working with Justin long before all of this. And so I already knew where him and I were connected. You know, Doug was, Doug was a gift that came with Sal that I was unaware of until we get it. But it's interesting. Like when I look back, I mean, we're coming up on, we're celebrating our big 10-year, like it's officially we'll be 11, but we're doing our 10-year party. And there's like it's, it'll be a, then we did a lot of like video and special stuff that we're going to do. So we've been reflecting a lot on this. So it's interesting. We're going this direction because I've thought a lot about But like, it's crazy to think that, and we meet people like, we're doing this stuff with our trust and family stuff with this company.

And the guy was telling me their day when I'm talking to him, he's like, you guys are crazy. He goes, I've been doing this for like 40-something years, helped hundreds of businesses. I have never seen a four-way partnership that you guys, like, and I don't know if you know this. Like, everything we have is a partnership. We have real estate. We have investments. We have stock. It's a quarter down the middle and everything.

And it's impossible for everybody in this room to equally handle all that stuff. It doesn't matter. It's just there is a brotherhood and a bond that anything that manifest from this is all of ours. And one guy can take a hiatus and only give 10%. One guy can take off for good. And we've already agreed that quarter of anything and everything of this is yours and nothing breaks. out. And, you know, it's interesting to think, like, I don't know, I don't know what it was that that created that early on. Well, I just to contribute to that, I think, you know, when we're talking

about values and we're talking about, you know, from the spiritual end of it, I think the more leaned more towards the values of it and saw the potential of where it could go. And knowing their values and really kind of picking up on their integrity. And, you know, I'm a very observant person. And so, you know, this can come across like I don't, you know, talk all the time or, you know, maybe I'm, you know, maybe I'm not as outspoken, but at the same time, it's like I am taking mental notes and I'm, you know, watching action. And really, that's what I'm most concerned with, you know, people can talk and say whatever they want to me. and it doesn't register unless I see it play out. And I saw that in them.

So, you know, for me, it was like, it was an obvious thing that you can build something great with that. Yeah. And I've seen this in teams that I've been a part of for sports. And there's like that, that core sense that everybody involved has this, like, like, desire to be great and to grow and to, and maintain these values that are really strong. And so it was a very similar type of a aspect and vibe that I got, like, initially meeting them. Justin has a crazy gift of discernment. He picks it. He sniffs out in somebody who lacks integrity from 10 miles away.

He comes in. Because he comes in his handshake. He comes in so skeptical. But he could just, you know. Very skeptical. Mine's pretty good. But his is like, like, man, he's got that counter, which is really good. I think, you know, I'm trying to think about it

because some of it was, I'll say a blessing, because some of it was like, this is hindsight. So now looking back, like, oh, my God, like, we didn't have, we didn't sign paperwork on this partnership for years. Yep. You know that? We ran this, how long did we run this?

It was all handshake. Before we officially wrote. I don't think we have any official paperwork, so. We had an operating agreement early on. A real generic one. Yeah. I think, I think,

It might come from knowing that you don't deserve this. So if so, because we're, like, we're human. Like, we're all super flawed. Okay. So each of us, if we wanted to make a list of the things that, you know, we probably could guess what annoys our partners about us. We could probably write a list all of us. Like, I know that they got, they hate it when I'm this.

I fail here. And we could all do that easily. And so it's like, you know, I don't deserve this. when, you know, Doug or Justin or Adam does something, it's very easy for me to be like, whatever. Like, okay, that's cool. Like, you know, this is just. It's so funny, though, because we're all so very different.

Right. You know, because, I mean, I resonate a lot with what Justin says because we played team sports growing up. And I studied a lot of, like, military, like, Navy SEALs and stuff like that. And, like, that brotherhood that they have, that bond and selflessness of, like, it's the other guy above you. at all cost. And that creates this unbelievable force.

That's how I entered this business. That's the only way for it to just destroy anything in its path and be successful. Like every great sport team, every great Navy SEAL team, they have that brotherhood. And so I think, and I know Justin relates to that because of playing sports. It's interesting to me that I feel Doug and Sal have that too, although they didn't, they didn't really, like he played solo sport, but yet that that like resonates with everybody, I feel like of this like, it's about the, there's times, and then you've, because you've listened long enough, so you've probably heard us express where, I mean, Sal and I are like going at each other.

I mean, if somebody could see what it looks like, people will be like, oh, fuck, the whole company's going and end of that way. People would think it's like the end. I'm sure like, Dylan can talk about the first time that he ever heard it. Like, you probably went like, oh, shit, I'm not going to have a job tomorrow. Oh, outside. Yeah, or yeah, Justin just kind of like that, that, the meme of, uh, what's his face? It goes to the end of the bushes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm Homer Simpson. I mean, I mean, there's countless, countless times of us. But it's always for the good of the team. And this respect. It's never about ego. It's never about I'm more. And I, I, I, I, I, I, I, we both want it. Like, I want you to care that much that you're going to get in my face and tell me I'm wrong and prove to me I'm wrong.

And I'm going to battle for what I think is right. not because I care for my ego, but because I think it's the right path for the business. Yeah. And so we all embrace that. You know what's cool about that, though? It's cool. So you ever hang around with like an old couple?

Like a married couple that have been married for, this is my parents. I'll use my parents as an example. They're both now in their 60s. They've been married for, you know, 40 years. And I remember as a kid, they'd get in these blowout fights, right? Like marriage is hard,

especially when you have four kids, immigrant family, the whole deal. Now I'll have. I'll hear them bicker about things that used to cause blowouts, but it's different. It's almost comical. They don't take it nearly as personal. It's not a big deal because they've kind of grown together, accepted certain things. And so, like, I'm just thinking back, like, those things, you and I, even Adam, you and I

probably butt head the most, it happens less and less than. Oh, yeah. Which is wild because we've been together, all of us have been together for so long that I think it's like an old couple. Like we're getting at a point now where. There'll be like a few remarks and a little thing. No, it's just like a backheaded slide. Yeah.

Whatever. Well, I think what, so what I hear and feel, feel is you guys really trust each other. Oh, yeah. And trust and respect really go hand in hand. In fact, I'll say love does too, right? And so, you know, even in friction moments, you can you can have at it because you trust each other. You trust that it's okay. It's safe to disagree. It's safe because at the end of the day, you guys are on the same fucking team. And team is really important, something I really wanted to talk

about with the three of you. So I have this whole, again, Deep Thinker, created a podcast episode about it. Carrie and I talk about it all the time. But I really believe that there's a difference between teammates and friends. And it can sound this. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See, immediately, they're like, yeah, exactly. 100%. 100%. Tell me, from your perspective, what is that difference to you? Well, they both include selflessness, but one of them has a goal.

The other one doesn't. We're both, we're moving a direction. Yeah, we have a, we have a shared, shared goal and mission that we're on. Friendship is different. Friendship is selflessness, love, companionship, there for each other. But you don't sit down with your friends. and go like, we're trying to get here. Let's figure it out together.

And so, yeah, there's a difference there. Both require, I think, a high level of selflessness, but the team also requires that we're rowing in a similar direction, which I think also more friction will naturally bubble up because there's more going on there. Friendship is like there's a lot more compassion and empathy and like, oh, they're going through it right now, not a big deal. Maybe we don't talk for a couple weeks, get back together.

It's like, but like we have to. to live with each other every day no matter what. Because we have a very specific goal. And I don't care how mad I am at you or not or whatever. It's like I show up to the next day where I get on these mics with you five minutes later. And it's like we have we have a goal to get after. And so there's definitely a huge difference. I might not like you today, but we're going to hang out and look this out.

Yeah. You should see when Justin's in a bad mood, he's like this moody little chick over there. I'm not wondering about this. He's still, he's still like, how does that go down? He just gets even quiet. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's even quieter.

You know what I say? I feel him a little harder. Yeah, yeah. And he's grunts, little steam. And everything's heavier. Everything's heavier. Everything's heavier.

It's just the mic heavier. I slams heavier. The door closes heavier. This makes so much sense. I see it. Like a tantrum. I get angry, dude. I'm like, I'm getting angry.

But I mean, everybody, hey, but he gets the job done. Does his podcast. Shows up. Does what he's got to do. Gets through his shit. You know what I'm saying? And like a team does that. A team understands.

understands the goal is above each other thyself. And so even when there's, you know, stuff bubbling or stuff going on, it's like we have a mission and we can't, we can't fucking let this simmer for three days. Yeah, I really feel that teammates, because in my world, for example, and I'm just going to use Carrie, Gabrielle Lyon also one of my sister's best friends, right? Yeah, great. Um, if there's friction, if there's tension, if there's, you run towards each other. You don't run from each other, right?

That's one thing. Another thing is, uh, her wins are my wins. Like, I want my fucking, I want all my friends. I want my loved ones to win, right? Shit, you guys are like, again, I'm like, I want you guys to win. You're winning. What I'm trying to say is that Carrie's independent wins, her desire. that have nothing to do with me.

They do spiritually because I love her so much. And her wins mean everything to me. And, you know, there's this, was it Simon Seneca? I think he talks about how it's less common for friends to celebrate your wins. Totally. Right? Versus like you're more likely to have people in your life, your friends, whatever, who will be there for you when you're down versus, when you're fucking winning.

Everybody wants you to be successful in the underdog until you pass them and then they're not so excited anymore. Right, exactly. So I think that that also plays into... Well, to me, that's what defines a real true friendship. Like, I definitely have... I have a lot of acquaintances. I have people that I would call friends,

and then I have, like, real friends. Yeah. Like, and even... So I have these friends that, you know, love to kind of root me along with this, but they still want to make sure they're doing a little bit better. You know what I'm saying? until they, then they're different when you pass them.

Then they're critical or they don't hang around as much. But then I have like, like, you know, brotherhood friends who can't wait to hear about the success or the things that you're doing. And they're inquiring. They're asking. Oh, my God, what? And just it's a different level of friendship. Yeah. And those are a much smaller, smaller number.

How has it been for you guys, you know, being so public, growing massively in the public in your personal, lives, like a couple things. Like, I'm so curious to how you manage privacy and connection out here, because that's a big deal for me. Yeah. And then how has it also been in terms of, like, personal relationships as you've been growing, you know, have certain relationships fallen out as a result of? I get conflicted with the public part of it. I, there's, it's conflicting because I like when people stop me and say, hey, man, you guys really help me. Yeah. But then the other part of it is like, I am very protective of my family.

So if I'm with my kids, especially with my kids, I'm like, I don't want. In fact, if you listen to the podcast, you'll rarely hear me actually say their names. I'll refer to my oldest, my youngest, my two-year-old, my four-year-old, whatever, because of that. So there's a bit of a conflict. And I, boy, I don't know if I'd ever want to be so publicly. known that I get stopped all over the place unless it was really benefiting people in a purposeful way. And then I could kind of tolerate it. I thought we were, I thought we were really mindful about this. And I'm actually, I think we have a really good healthy balance with it.

Right. It's inevitable. The amount of people we reach that you're going to get recognized, right? We go into big cities or places like that. It's almost always that you're going to have somebody walk up to you or what like that. But we also, again, putting the business first, I mean, we even, we didn't want to grow our personal brand. Like it was mind pump Adam, mind pump Justin. Like, it's the brand first. None of us try and really grow our personal pages. That's just by from the business growing that's kind of naturally grown.

Yeah. It's always been grow the mind pump media page. It's always about highlighting our staff and our people in front of us. Yes, we understand that people want more of us. And so there's times where we step forward and we, and we do that. None of us had ever wanted to, this is also why the dynamic. works where Sal can dominate the conversation and none of us care. Nobody wants the limelight. Nobody's like, hey, when we first started, we don't know. None of us desire that.

There was four of us, right? So when we first started, there was four of us, Craig. Four hosts. And one of the first conversations we ever had off air was like, man, like, like, I remember the first recording. We did 15 recordings that never made it to air before we launched with him. And, you know, looking back now, it's crazy. because he would have fucked the whole dynamic up. Because one of the first things that happened was, like, after the first episode, he cared so much because he'd been on covers of magazines,

he was the most already well-known. He cared so much about equal airtime. You know what he said? He literally is like, all right, Sal, you talked a lot on that one, and the next one, Adam did this. And so the next one, I'm going to do more. Justin, you're going to open it.

And we're like, no. What? Yeah, all of us were like, who cares? Yeah, who cares? That's not how I'd have a conversation. So, yeah, so early on, nobody wanted fame, nobody wanted attention. And I think because of that, we've had this really, and I also think it helped that it was like slow growth. Like it wasn't like overnight success for it.

I imagine that would be really hard to be like a kid or a young person and also we're older, right? And be not known. And then the next day you're a blockbuster movie and like millions. We had this like real so like, I remember like, hey, someone. recognize me. Like it was like a deal. You know what I'm saying? Like somebody knew who I was.

It's so crazy, right? It was like that one time it happened, right? And then it like started to happen a little bit more. We're also in the 30s when it started. Yeah, yeah. Had we done in our early 20s, it would have been really probably more challenging. Of course, because it would have fed our ego more. We cared more about that stuff.

But I think we figured out by this, by the time we got to that place that none of us really wanted it or liked it that much. And so it's, And I think I'm probably the most open in sharing my personal life, I'd say, probably out of all of us. Yeah, I'm the most public about that. And that's just, to me, that's more just kind of, I feel it's the most authentic part of me is like, like, my son is such a big deal in my life. You like doing it. You're very transparent.

Right, right. And so, but I totally get where Sal's very protective of that. And he's like, that's just a difference in personality. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm like, and I understand that what comes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. Yeah, well, I'm the meat between. Delicious. Delicious. Yeah. What I was going to say, it's funny because I think that people listen to us, like, it's different because they actually know us. Yeah.

It's not like we're these people doing an act or, you know, I'm not like out there juggling fire or whatever, dude. I'm not like trying to really hard to get your attention. Like, you're finding me because. you're growth-minded and your... Relate to you. Your pursuit, yeah, you relate to me on some level, my personality, because it's really who I am.

And so, I don't know, I don't, when I meet people and they spot me out, and actually, like, I get excited about it because I'm like, oh, cool, you like what we're doing, you know, and it's helped you in some way, usually. You know, usually, you know, he's so weird, Roxanne, early, early days when we would meet fans, they would hang out with them, you know, for a little bit, and they'd say, you guys are just like you sound the podcast. You guys are all so off-attribing. It was weird for us because I remember being like, what do they mean?

What do you mean? What do you mean I'm authentic? I'm just like, what else would I be? And then we would meet and interview influencers and stuff. I'm like, oh. Okay, I see you. Because we turn the mics on and they become someone else. Then the mics would turn off and they would be someone else.

Like, that's what they mean. Yeah, totally. It just felt so strange to hear that. Because I'm like, what else would I do? I've heard that as well. And then in my past career, working with, you know, I mean, all kinds of fucking celebrities, right? So I used to do, you know, the red carpet, the makeup, right, for everything, magazine covers. So I've seen, I've seen it.

And I don't have that gene. And I'm so grateful for this that, like, I've never given a shit about celebrities with all due respect to everyone's career and your talents and you're great. but I don't care. Care meaning I don't pedestal anybody. I can have respect for your craft for what you've accomplished, but there's no hierarchy. I don't have that way about it. Do you think that's because of your exposure

or were you think you were that way before? No, I think it's how I... You were before? Yeah, for sure. Because I'm the same way too, but I think a lot of it has to do with my exposure. Do you? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My wife and I both have been around a lot of famous professional athletes, people like that. And I've seen enough behind the scenes that how effed up. they all are and like and how much they suck at other parts of their life yeah that it's like oh they're just hyper good at this one thing but then i don't admire anything else yeah and so i had enough exposure to that that it doesn't get i don't get starstruck i don't get excited i don't think anything i'm like oh they're really cool at that it's great i can i can separate that

but that's because of my exposure not because i had this innate like you don't think you have maybe because here's what i want to ask you just on that know because we we don't have there's There's similarities in our upbringing, not fully, but, you know, my earliest years, lots of, you know, domestic violence in the house, like hypervigilant. I'm the second out of five, second old, so older sister, I'm the second sister. And then my brother's trail behind me, right? So I'm their older sister. Yeah. And all of my siblings are as fucking real as it gets.

Like, authenticity is just a through line in my family. There's something about, I think, growing up in an environment, too, in those earliest years, where, I don't know, you know, you grew up in a house of violence. Yeah. Where shit's like, you just don't know. It's, I don't know. I think it kind of. No, there's good books on this. Yeah.

The ability for you to read, like, you're probably right. Like, I have ability to read people really well. That part. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Really, really. I can meet somebody famous or not famous in a very short period of time and, like, sniff out stuff like that. like animal fucking instinct. You can just read it really quickly. Yeah. So that's a fair analysis. Yeah. I mean, you still have to choose, I think, maybe, or this can go into a whole philosophical,

like a rabbit hole, but, you know, you still maybe have to decide if you're going to, you know, value someone's status or not, even if you're reading them to be authentic or not. But I don't know. I think, I think. there was never anything glamorous or over-special about, you know, even though if you're somebody, you've done great things, you're in the public. But that doesn't mean you're better than anybody. No, definitely not.

And that's, that has, and I'm grateful to have that gene. And I feel that you guys operate very much in that same. Yeah, Justin's like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and it's, and again, then this goes back to something I was saying at the start that I think is so important is, you know, because you've really just been who the fuck. And I don't mean to just it like I'm putting it down.

In fact, I think what you're doing is actually so fucking important because I think that more people need to see realness, you know, need to also register this part that you can actually build a kickass, I like to call it, delicious life, like a life where you're truly thriving. on on all different levels you know your relationships your business financially fucking health like and you're being yourself you don't have to fucking juggle fire you don't have to fucking terrible analogy you know you know you don't have to do it you don't have to do it you don't have to do it i think i would even i want to see you do it though he can i know i think to put it differently you will not have a truly successful life unless you're authentic. That's right. So having money, fame, things, relationships based on a lie is hell.

Yeah. And so I like to communicate that to the younger generations. We have younger people that listen to us, especially fitness people. And the fitness space is very easy to be fake. And I try to communicate that to kids. it's like first off, 99.999% of you will not, will never accomplish a level of fame and money that you're worshipping. But even if you do, and it's based on a lie, you've, you've now entered hell. Yeah.

Because now you're getting adoration for something that you're not. You're working and making money doing something that you don't feel a deep sense of purpose behind, which is very hard to break free from. It's easy to break free from something that you're doing that's. not giving you something worldly that also doesn't have purpose. You're like, oh, what's the point? But imagine making millions of dollars bullshitting. Now you're like, what do I do? I got to give up all this money to be authentic. And so you're in this kind of weird, twisted space that becomes more and more hellish. Yeah. So it's a myth. It's the same myth.

I like to use fitness because great analogies in fitness. It's like you can't hate yourself into better health because hating yourself is unhealthy, right? So you can't be successful, uh, in the truest sense with real life satisfaction without being authentic. Even if you are the point one percent that makes the money and the fame from doing so, uh, you've put yourself in a very bad place. By the way, the evidence is there. I don't, I'm not just saying this philosophically. Look at the addiction rate, suicide rate of celebrities. People who have access to all the things that we think are great, all the money and the sex and the drugs and the pleasure and the fame and they're they're doing terribly it's all public so we know but they're doing very poorly so um it's a myth those are

some of those values that that probably took back to your original start of this conversation that probably connected all of us because we all were thought this way before we before we all got together we had all arrived at that place in our lives and so that's a pretty tight thing to be bonded at Totally. So that helps with your collective consciousness theory. I think that's important. Yeah. Yeah.

Very aligned. Alignment. Yeah. And that for sure. So it's crazy. What I, so this is a fun thing that I did recently where I was calculating how many lives have lived so far in my 47 years?

I'm at 10. So you can read the book when it comes out. But in the span of your 10, but you said, almost 11 years, right? It'll be 11. It'll be 11. Okay. So in your 11 years together, how many lives have you lived?

So essentially, like, how, with the core of who you are staying true, but your identities have expanded. They have evolved. Sure. They've shifted, right? They've had to be where you are now. Definitely. So.

I feel like two within this tenure. Yeah. I feel like I've lived two lives in this 10 years, 11 years. Wouldn't you? I feel like you have to. I feel like, will you? Yeah. Yeah.

But I could get, I mean, I could be specific. Well, you're obvious. You're obvious because you were atheists, atheists. I mean, that's, I would say, you became a father. I became a father. Yeah, that's exactly right. I was, when we started this, I was saying things like, I may never have a kid. Mm-hmm.

And I'm on the complete opposite of that spectrum of that. Yeah. So that's why I say two lives in this 11 years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would say, you know, one of the big, one of the big myths, I would say that, that the world sells you that I believed is that your identity is tied up in what you do, your accomplishments, how you look, the people that you are attracted to, whatever. Like, that's your identity.

And so you go through life constantly shifting that in search of what your identity is. But to give you an example, let's say you're famous because you're a great singer. So that's your identity. I'm this wonderful singer. And then you have an accident. You lose your voice. Who am I? Yeah.

Who am I now? Or your identity is in your beauty and then you get older. Or your identities in your business and then you retire. Or your identities in your children. And then they grow up. And now you're at home without your kids. And so for me, what I've realized now, which I think is true, is it's not about who I am. It's about whose I am. Who do I belong to?

So my identity now is in Christ. And so he determines who I am, not me. And that is very, you talked about freedom earlier? That's very freeing. And so wherever I go, I know who I belong to. And does that mean, of course, I'm going to grow and change. That's the process. But it's very difficult without that because otherwise it becomes this searching and this constant searching.

And I think eventually it reaches a fervor where you're grabbing. grabbing, grabbing, and then time runs out. And it's like, yeah. So is that two or three lives in 11 years? That would be two. One before and one after. Long-ass answer. Really?

That's the deep stuff. Well, wait, but you came into this. They all said two. Was that two or three? I don't know. I like it. I like it. I like it in granular.

It was a nine. How was that? How many is that? Well, you came in just freshly divorced. Yep. Right. So you still think it's two? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, I can, I can, I can, I can give you a list of 15. I mean, what is it? I mean, I don't know, like, you know, general manager fitness guy. Well, no, no, I mean, like in this. 11 years. Oh, I said our 11 years.

I mean, that's because, of course, I could think of a ton more, but I'm thinking of like in the our window together. Well, I was a, I would have, I would have, I would have, way back in the day. Yeah, I would have never. I would count that. I would have never got married again. That's what you asked me that after my divorce. Never again.

I would have never again definitely had more kids. I never put myself in that situation where I could lose, you know, being with them, you know, all the time. Like, never again. So that was a massive shift. You can't have the fear that. Yeah, you may have had like four, bro. Might have. Yeah, you might have like four.

I might have. Like married, divorced. I'm not going to ever have kids again. Married kids. Atheist. Yeah. Maybe he's like six. Yeah.

He's like six. I think Justin, you're like you and I too? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. What would divide your two? I guess it's more of like a confidence of being myself. Oh. So it's more like, I guess it. You do have a lot more swag now. Yeah, definitely a lot of swag.

You were still hot back. I extracted that for me. I'll stop. You know, the sales was. So it just, yeah, I became part of you guys. But yeah, I think, I think for me it's just been. you know, trying to figure out how to not project myself in terms of how I thought too much about how it was being received.

Like, and how, like, I could filter my words and how I could sound. And so it was just a very, like, I was conscious of everything I was doing as opposed to, like, just being in the moment and, like, letting it out. And so I think one is reserved and one is, like, less reserved. totally can see that. Now what you got me thinking is, for sure. Do you remember when you settled into that version of you?

Sorry, I'm hijacking your... That's a great fucking question. We'll jump in here. Yeah, but you're on your podcast. When did you... Because I think I have it, and I don't want to say...

Three weeks ago? Because I... Give you some credit. I totally feel like there was a major transition of that version of you where you were like overthinking what you said, if I said enough,

do I need, and then there became like the chill, Justin, like, I might just sit and not talk to this whole fucking podcast if I don't feel like it. Or, no, or all, yeah, or also. And so you did settle into that. Wendy, did you remember when you felt that transition? Yeah, I think, um, I put a lot more emphasis on, and I told you guys when I was going through that process of like, um, we had, um, what's it called the, um, the guy that used to do like improv.

That's totally what I thought. Okay. So that's what I thought it was. I think that was the catalyst for it. But yeah, because I was, I was thinking, you know, because I would throw a little weedy quones in there whenever you guys would go on your rants. And, you know, I was getting a lot of feedback that, like, there was some humor there. And so I was like, maybe I got to work on that.

Like, I don't know. Maybe I should be the funny guy or, you know. I don't know. Like, I've never done it before. Like, it's just like, I'm not a stand-up comedian or anything. And, like, it's not pre-planned. This is just, like, what comes out. Yeah.

And so I was like, maybe I can work on that and figure out how. to work on that specifically so it's a skill and uh and then i was like this but yeah that started the catalyst for me to realize well i could just say whatever i'm gonna be okay because like what comes out like maybe it's not perfect but it wasn't uh it wasn't horrible it wasn't like like i felt later on like i totally regretted that you know like that's that's the thoughts that would go through my head is i would say things on the podcast was just like oh my god like somebody's gonna hear this and be like, what the fuck. So that's when I felt it.

I didn't want to say that first because I wanted to hear what you had to say. But that's when I... That was huge. I thought I felt that. I thought, and I remember commenting to Katrina, I'm like, oh, man, Justin is just like, when we went through that whole process,

for almost a year, huh? We have a year? Yeah, maybe more. For a year, we used to have an improv coach. It's amazing. Every Monday that we used to, that was how we would want. And it was so out of the box. Improv games.

Yeah, there were all these games. We actually are, we have our, every Friday now. It's Friday, right? Yeah, Friday. We do it for our staff. So our trainers. Our trainers will do it just for communication skills. It just would.

It's so helpful. Yeah, it would just warm us up, loosen us up like that. And it really did help. And I really noticed a difference on job. I think it helped everybody. But that's when I felt like you fully settled in. And so you just basically let yourself out. It wasn't necessarily, you know, adding anything as much as it was allowing.

Yeah. I don't think I really like. adopted a new identity. No, yeah. Yeah, because like I was a banded, maybe you just let out more. You settle in. You took off the brakes.

Yeah. There you go. Yeah. And too, yeah, it's definitely built a lot more confidence and gave me that ability to articulate and to communicate better. And just being around them's even helped out quite a bit

just because it's like it's, it's that pressure cook. Yeah. Me just being here has been such a learning experience for me. So, but yeah, I honestly, I was a, father before kind of coming in. So that was interesting.

And, you know, and so I actually related with Sal a lot with that. But then, like, you know, Adam became a father. And so it was like a weird, everything kind of shifted and molded. And then, you know, and then we all kind of were spiritually aligned now. And I'm like, well, what's happening? We're becoming Voltron. This shit is getting weird. No, you did it.

Yeah, you fucking did. You just went Voltron. That was such a quick. Oh, it's the best. That was a fucking great cartoon. That and Thundercats. It doesn't get better. I stopped with an ultra.

I love it. Well, what, it's curious about, so as a team and individually, what's stretching you guys right now? Having a staff of over 30-something people and leading something this big. We've had a big pivot in the company. Yeah, yeah, huge pivot. Yeah. Yeah, huge pivot.

Because you. Well, because, well, business side-wise, we're at a, So here, I believe, or we believe that we are at a crucial time where the consumer is going to seek one of two things. Either you're going to go in the direction of all the things that AI has to offer, which is incredible and very accurate and good for a lot of things and going to be cheap and all these things. And then there's going to be people that value high touch and human, humans to like, I know it's more expensive. I know it's more effort. That's okay. I value human connection and value that so much.

And it was very clear what was going on in our business because we have digital products that we sell that do not require human at all. And watching it plateau and then start to dive and realize that AI is going to really start to consume that site, which was our baby, what we built this business off of. And so it was we have to get back in touch. with our people and actually making human connection again. And we have to do that through. And since we're so big, we can't possibly do that ourselves. We have to do that through personal trainers and getting back to actually training people one-on-one and meeting with them

and like that human connection. Yeah. And so we saw that last year and we made the massive pivot to focus in that direction. And so we've been scaling that. And the bottleneck to that is bodies. So the only reason why that's not 3X the size already is because we need about 50 trainers to support the volume that we can handle. And we're at 17 right now. So that's. And we're, we want really good. Of course. So we're not going to try to speed the process.

Yeah. We want to really. And that's, you know, there's another reason too. Adam's like that business was there for us a long time ago. Oh, yeah. But we were all trainers. Remember we were coaches, trainers for a long time? before we started this.

So we have a lot of respect for what good trainers do. I mean, a good trainer will change your life. There's a lot of trainers out there, but good trainers, there's not a ton. And so it's like, if we offer this service, it has to meet that standard. Sure. And so we just weren't ready to, you know,

put the time and effort. Well, that's right to her point, right? We knew that that would stretch our capacity. Like selling digital programs. Yeah, you write a program, put it together, sell it. Like it's evergreen. Right. People are buying every day by the hundreds.

We don't have to think about it. I mean, we have a customer service team that handles people that call it. What? It was a rad business. Yeah, it was a very rad business. You know,

very cool. But we knew the monster we were setting out building if we were going to, if we're going to get back to having people and trainers. And like, that's, and we stayed away from it for so long because we knew how much it would stretch our capacity to do it. Yeah.

But it became very clear that it was either or. And none of us want to go all AI. direction. It's been so rewarding though. Oh yeah. It's been incredible. Yeah. It's awesome. Oh my God. I mean we used to come to work and there used to be just the four of us you know, quiet. For years for years it was like that. So the energy in here is nuts. It's crazy to see how much of it's got a super cool super cool vibe now. And the culture that's building and just the you talk about purpose. It's strengthened even more now because the impact that these coaches and trainers are having because I'll hop on some of these coaching calls.

show my face, hey, what's happening? And I hear what they're doing and it's just, wow. It's amazing. Oh, I get the chills. But it's definitely, I would say, wouldn't you guys all agree that, I mean, you're working harder more and stretching your capacity more today. Doesn't feel like it though because it feels so great. Well, yeah, it's rewarding.

It's so fun. But, I mean, the level of work and effort, so we're definitely being stretched right now. That's definitely. We're running, yeah, for sure. More than we have in a long time. We were cruising for a while there. There was a couple of years there where, business was kind of on a rock yeah we were we got fat and happy a little bit of chunky

yeah but you guys value a challenge yeah yeah like you guys yeah yeah it's fuel right yeah i mean it shook i mean we uh we fired our marketing uh company we let go like it woke we needed it we all look back and we go like the best thing that happened to us was the challenge and and being because it forced us to grow it forced us to stretch our capacity yeah and we were we like that we were so it's like And I know, I'm like, we all know that, you know, we'll look back five or 10 years from now and, like, in the fire is the best part. Always. This is the, when you're in it and the journey, like, once we, we win again and we're on the top and whatever and we build that whole side, like, what, that's cool and all. But it's like, this is the good time.

The good time is when, like, the uncertainty, the, you know, like, the hustle. Like, that's, that's the rewarding. And remembering that, right? Trying to be present and go, like, even as stressful as it can feel something. sometimes because you have this responsibility of so many people and the weight of that. But then also remembering like, yeah, that's why I get up every day. Yeah. That's cool.

Like, there's a lot riding on the line. I love that. It's this part that I love. You have to have a lot of emotional discipline, right? Yeah. And that really relates back to mastery, mastery of self. Yeah. Right?

To not let your emotions just have their way with you to really, you know. You ever hear me tell the story of Katrina, the call? that I gave her in the truck on the ride home when I was bitching about Sal. I knew it was about me. Wait, I've heard. You never said it about me. Wait, wait, can you say it? Because I've heard.

Wait, tell me. He told the story, never said it was me. I knew it was me. I knew it was me. That's funny. If I never slipped out that time, who slips. Whoops. I don't know.

We all have got new slips over here a little too much. Yeah. Yeah, so this was like, we were at this studio, so it was definitely within this time frame. So it had to have been about six or seven years ago somewhere around there. And typical day, I'm frustrated with Sal. I'm cussing him out as I'm driving home. Motherfucker, I wish she would do this. And like, I'm venting, right?

And there's other things going on. It wasn't obviously just Sal. There's a lot of stuff that we had a lot of pressure going on at that time. And I'm venting to her. And I've got her on my truck speaker phone. and I'm probably ranting for like seven minutes straight or something like that. And then I finally like catch a breath, you know, and then she's, and it's like silent. And I'm like, hello? Are you there?

She's like, yeah. Are you done? And I'm like, well, yeah. What do you have to say? She's like, long pause. Would you have it any other way? And it just hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm like, damn, you're right. Like, if it was easy, it would be no fun. If I wasn't frustrated and trying to figure it out and anybody could do it like it would be lame. Yeah.

And I had this. I did. I had this. It gave me a whole another level of appreciation for my partners, the struggle, all that. It's like, dude,

of course I don't want it to be easy. There's no, there'd be no, there'd be nothing rewarding at the other side. If I didn't have those moments of like, oh, this is hard or I'm frustrated. It's like,

and she's like, would you want it any other way? Yeah. And I'm like, God damn, you're right. She's badass. Oh, she is badass. I love those bottom line moments.

Oh, yeah. Because they just settle everything. Oh, totally. Totally. Super pivotal moment for me and my journey and walk through all this stuff like that. Like, because I, there's obviously been many of other times for many other reasons where I felt like that. And I always draw back to that moment of like, she's right. Like, this is the part that I like.

You know what I'm saying? If it was so easy that everything. fell in line and everything, every decision I made worked out perfect. How boring would that be? Right. And so I always draw back to that in any, any moment that we're having, I'm just like, hey, would I want any other way? No, hell no.

Like the fact that it's hard is what I love. I relate to that deeply. You know, a lot of people, I've said this before in the podcast a lot, but when we think about uncertainty, and I get this because I, especially in my 20s, it's like you want to, you want so much control. You want, you're trying to create certain. out here in uncertainty. That's what we think we want, right?

Until you start to understand, it's actually not, first of all, you don't want certainty out here. That's boring. That's like the Twilight Zone. That's some fucking weird-ass shit where basically there's no magic. There's no possibilities.

There's no miracles or fucking any of that, right? What we want is certainty in here, certainty in self, that no matter what I'm going to navigate out here in this uncertain terrain of life that I will, I'll be okay. I'll find a way to thrive. Fuck, I'll get better every time, like take punches, get up. You're better for it, right? It's, that's the part that I think if, if more people can register, oh, I'm not really, it's not about out here. I want the open playground

of possibilities. But what do I need to do to feel more certain? And certain doesn't mean I have all the answers. It really just means I trust myself, right? And I have, I, I will do, for me, it's always about the heart. What my heart is directing me towards, I will have the courage to take that step forward into uncertainty, knowing that no matter what I'm in a face, it's going to be good for me. So long as I'm looking at it that way. It's also a myth that there's certainty anyway. You don't know. So it's also just a, you get caught in that game of trying to control the outcome.

Yeah. You're going to get, you're going to hit a wall because there is no certainty anyway. No. So it's not a choice of, you know, your way's better than the other way. There is no other way. There is no other way. Yeah. Otherwise, you get stuck in this trying to control everything all the time.

And then you're fear-based. Oh, absolutely, fear-based. And you're clinging on to every single. You can create probabilities. Sure. There's no certainty. You don't know. So what limiting belief slash fear each of you, what have, what's been maybe the biggest

one or one that comes top of mind when I even say that to you in the last 10 years that you've had to re-script, let go of, evolve to be the men that you are in this moment? That's one of the, this is one of our problems. We're deliriously confident. Yeah. That's definitely another one of those. Like all of us are unbelievably, I mean, to have a very strong self-belief,

that's probably one of the most attractive qualities that I've found in all these guys is that we're going to suck. This is going to be hard. We're not going to be good at it. So what? Yeah. Like everybody in here has made peace.

And I feel this way at almost any crossroad that they've had in their life with the worst outcome. Well, what happens if this thing doesn't work out or what happens if we, like, then we'll do this or we'll figure it out. Like, I'll be alive still. We'll be fine.

Everybody has that in here. Everybody has that. And so at least I don't know if I'm speaking out of turn and everyone else. No, you're right. I just don't, like, I can't think of a thing where I have. I don't know.

There's just kind of like, I mean, I could even create a scenario where everything blows up, but I'm with these guys. Yeah, that's what I mean. And we're walking through fire. Yeah. And that's fun.

Like strip it all from me. Like, Cool. We used to say that. We used to say like... As long as it's in slow motion. I just it. Just holding hands.

You bad ass. Yeah. Well, you know what comes to mind through my heart when I hear you say that is honor. There's a lot of honor in this room. You guys really, you carry a lot of honor independently, but especially also for each other. Yeah. Yeah. More that Navy SEAL stuff.

Yeah. No, I get it. Oh, I love that. Yeah, it's palpable for me. Like, I feel it deeply, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I will wait, actually, limiting beliefs. You're not off the hook. I can't still out of it.

I don't know if there's a breeze passing. I know that. Or fear, something that you have to read. You know what could be a limiting belief? Probably less so now, but now I'm at least aware of that it's there, is that I can do anything I put my mind to. I can make anything happen. Nothing can stop me.

That's a lie. That's a myth that a lot of us believe. The truth is I don't know everything. The truth is I can't do everything. And the truth is that I'm going to need to rely on other people. And so... But the final truth of that is that I'll be okay. I'll be okay.

Yeah. I'm going to be okay. Yeah. But if, you know, that would have been a limited belief before, for sure, that I can do anything, which sounds so awesome and empowering. until you're met with the reality that life is going to throw at you, that you can't. Yeah. And something's going to happen.

And you're going to be in a place where it's like, I can't do everything on my own. Right. So humility really comes in. Huge. And allows you to be more, like you can kind of surrender more, which that gives you more freedom. That's right. I love that word humble with us, too, because I think that we have this weird, ultra-confident, cocky, yet humble at the same time. personalities. Everybody in here has this like... I totally agree. It's very foul. And it's been

the whole way through as, you know, early... Some people misread it sometimes, but like, someone like that. But you know what? I think that has a lot to do with the person reading. Totally. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Yeah. I think there's somebody be said about, I just fucking put something up about this the other day. Like, have conviction in what you're saying. You can still be humble. You can still have humility. And in fact, I think that sometimes, Sometimes people are like, oh, I'm just trying to be humble. It's like, no, you're just not sure about what you're fucking, you're actually hiding right now.

You're using the idea of humility. Yeah. But it's not true. Yeah. And that's okay. Like, no judgment, but like the more honest. Confidence would say, I'm scared right now, but here's what I think. There you go.

That's humble confidence. Yeah. Not saying anything is just fear. Yeah. That's the, there's a difference there. Yeah, I think, well, that kind of goes in line with what I was going to say is really like this entire business is like something I feared. So if you're going to go that direction, like for me, I seek that out though. And that's been my MO since athletics, since I was a kid.

Because I know on the other side of that what that looks like. And I grow and I become stronger. And it helps me builds my confidence. and it just builds me up as a person. And two, I know I'm going to be okay because of the discipline and the practices that it takes to become better and to become good and to then further, you know, get into the point where you could consider yourself really good at something. There's a process to that.

And so I always knew that in different directions. You know, I wasn't real excited about the prospect of talking all the time initially. but over the years it just it became more fun it became more natural it you know all these things like it started to get uh it resonated more with me but it initially it was like fear panic you know all these feelings yeah but i know that um more i chip away at it i was very confident it would get better that's one of my favorite quotes their side of fear resides success i mean it's so true You've lived your life that way. I feel the same way too, like run towards it.

Another thing that's connected us. Obviously, we continue to unpack all these things that. Very similar. Yeah. You guys have that same trait for sure. Well, what do you, what's in your journey so far? Has there been moments where you weren't sure, were things like maybe there was, I don't know, rejection or things that came in to your experience as you're on this journey and you're

building that shook your confidence. I want to give you something, but it's really hard because that's part of why this works so well. There are definitely moments where we question if we're making the right decision or going the right direction. Okay. But not shaking our confidence. Yeah, totally not. Yeah, where it's like, uh-oh. Because even the story you brought up with the guy, like, right, like we were up very uncertain about that.

There was disagreement, argument around should we, should we not, South pushing back. And we going, come on, we need to figure it. Let's just try this. Like, so there's, there was uncertainty there. Um, but again, also part of that discussion was making peace with the worst outcome and we'll solve it. You know, it's like, hey, if it does and it's wrong, we'll feel it. Yeah.

We'll fire the guy. We'll move on. Or it'll work. It'll be good and we'll know it. And so let's just go. Let's just agree. And so that's one of the things that works really well is that we, when we disagree on stuff or there's uncertainty and maybe one guy steps forward and feels he has a.

more confidence in an area, the other three submit and go like, okay, like you seem to, you make the best argument, you feel right about it. The key to that is that when that guy makes the wrong decision for the business and it fails, we all own it still. We all own it. It's not, I knew you were wrong. We should have done. It's like, it does, no, we all, we, nobody thinks that way. Nobody thinks that way. We, we, celebrating success. Horne ads are a bad idea. Yeah, somebody comes up with a great idea and then it crushes. It's really easy to be like, we made a great decision. Sal takes credit for all this idea.

For sure. Right, Justin? I came up with all. That was such a good idea I had. You're all my ideas. I think Justin brought that out. It's a collective idea. This is like,

we just submit it. Now what we do is like one of our great ideas. We go, we're like, hey, Sal was a great idea. You know what it's so funny. And I just want to, as a woman, this is important to say, you guys are, really this you really have a beautiful balance harmonization of your masculine and your feminine

energy you really do because you guys are boys I see it like even in that moment it's sal this but there's there's there's such a strength to you guys it's not postured it just is you guys just like again I can go super poetic because that's just me but it's like your spines are really tall and strong but you're not sticking your chest out. You don't have anything to fucking prove. You're just, you just are. And even the love that is so felt for you, for each other, I mean, that to me, I just equate it to like, you guys are directional, you're logical. You have your, you know, sarcasm. This is like, you're very masculine. But then there's that empathy, that compassion, that selfless is that, you know, the creativity together, the feminine. And it's just, it's so beautiful, especially in, in, these days there's a lot of talk about masculine energy and toxic masculine and all that fucking. And I'm like, you know what? Just like here.

Just have a look. Okay. I'm saying it's my fucking show. Here's three fucking men who just, you don't have to say anything. You don't have to do anything. You just, you embody it. And I really just want to recognize all of you for that. It's beautiful.

You guys are fathers. I think you guys are bringing the whole fucking cool dad. the thing like back into yeah back into consciousness into yeah it's beautiful i mean amongst all of the i mean radical things that you've shifted so many lives you've not shifted shifting it's it's happening still and then on top of that you know just what i just shared i think it you're a beautiful example of men who don't have anything to prove you're driven you're very heart centric And it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's needed. I think that this, this is, this is the shit that should be on the front pages and highlighted and fucking going viral.

This stuff right here. Talking about the toxic masculinity thing, really curious from a woman's perspective. Do you think that that is because that they lack the feminine energy side? That's where that comes from. So what is it about? Yeah. that doesn't come off toxic. Yeah, yeah.

Okay? Sitting in this room with three very, four very alpha dudes, right? That doesn't come off that way. Yeah. Is that what it is, you think? And then when it does come off as toxic, is it because it lacks that feminine energy? What would you say? Yeah, I think there's just oppression of sort of the principles and the, the, the, the, the, the aspect of the feminine in men that carry that trait.

Like, for example, you're, and I speak about all of you, there's, you don't need to posture your strength. And that in of itself shows a softness about you. But softness is not weakness, right? There's nothing delicate about any of you, right? But I sense and feel your softness because it's alive within all of you. You have no problem with that part of you. And that makes you very strong without trying. And that's just one example, right?

One of the best, you mentioned something about fatherhood. We all will remark on this. The best compliment we ever get ever is when a caller calls in, young man, and he says, I didn't want to be a dad, and now I want to be a dad. All of us, when we hear that, we're just like, oh, yeah. For sure. Because I think men and women have been lied to for a long time, but men, I think for a long time, have really bought into a terrible lie,

which is that fatherhood is a burden. A burden. Dedicating yourself to one woman, boring, ball and chain. That responsibility is terrible. Freedom is no responsibility. Go be the rich jack dude that bangs a bunch of chicks and never has kids and doesn't want to have any responsibility. Like a terrible, terrible lie. And if that's what you want to do, then everybody do your own thing.

but I think a lot of young men for a long time bought into that. Yeah. And that's toxic masculinity. Totally. It's not real. Totally. It's projected fake media masculinity. It's overcompensation.

So, yeah. And I think you want to develop good masculinity. I'll tell you what. There's two things. Well, personally, we trained a lot of people. Most of our clients were women. So if you want to be an effective trainer, you have to figure out how to work with clients very well. And if most of your clients are women, you've got to figure out how to communicate.

And understand and listen and, you know, and all that with women. The second thing is men need to have, they need to be around other good men. We need that. Yeah. A man without good men around him is undisciplined and wild. What I mean by that is there's no, there's no containment, no structure to his strength and his aggressiveness and his drive that we can have inside of us. But when you're around good man that you respect. these guys can check me like nobody else.

Yeah. And I love it. Yeah. I appreciate it. And so men need that. And a lot of men are isolated. A lot of men don't have that. A lot of young men don't have that.

They're either in their rooms on video games or stuck on pornography. They're not out there talking to women. They're not out there trying to build themselves. And they're not with other men that are doing that. And you get that in teams sometimes. Sports teams will do that. You'll hear sometimes young men will tell you like a really transformational time of their lives. When they got on that football team, the great coach.

And the team built it. It's because you got to be around other guys that, you know, iron sharpens iron. Yes. So you got to be around other guys that'll do that. And that's oftentimes when you meet a man like that, it's because he's been around other men like that. I feel that. It's a perfect segue to a question.

It's kind of like a see-me moment. So I'd love for each of you to go, say about each other. So I'll give you an example. Justin, I would love for you to highlight something about both Sal and Adam that maybe. That maybe. Well, good. Right in time for your 10 years. Good.

I get to go first. No, highlight something about them that maybe that they don't, they under-recognize themselves for, like something really wonderful about them that maybe they don't give themselves enough credit for. Yeah, it's really funny that we're kind of going this direction because we have been working on a video for our 10 year. Am I stealing it for me? Well, it's questions. Oh, really? Yeah, it's very similar. So none of us have heard.

No, no, none of us have heard. Spoiler alert. It'll be a spoiler alert. I'm going to get it out before. Yeah, but we all have said it. Your January release. Yeah, it's kind of the same. You guys were worried I wasn't going to see anything nice.

in course I said something nice dude whatever I'm not the most sentimental guy but I can be at times but no I what I said was just a few things like Sal for me

it's funny because we like he knows like in the beginning like I'm very skeptical of a person new people like especially if like somebody's charismatic I think for me it's like there's a little bit of reserve to really, you know, get to know that person further. But he just, I mean, he won me over pretty much immediately after that, just in his character and his integrity and just his care and his passion.

I think for me, one of the biggest things is just like how passionate he is. Like he is just such a passionate person. And that translates to so many different things. And it's family, you know, and it's like. like this caring, compassionate Sal that like not a lot of people see. I mean, you get it a lot on the podcast. You can see him talk to people, you know, that call in. And yeah, it's just like, it's, again, he's a very masculine guy and he's like jacked and he's huge guy and all this.

And then he's like also like, he could be like my mom, you know, like sometimes. Like he's just like, oh, he's really concerned. He like actually cares, you know. And you don't get that from a lot of guys. So I think that's like, you know, a really awesome. awesome trade of his. I think for Adam, I kind of had a couple things. I've known him a bit longer.

But the main thing with Adam is just his unfiltered truth. Like, he is like the most honest person I know. Like, you know, some people might, you know, take that the wrong way. It might be abrasive. It might never been abrasive to me. Like, tell me exactly what it is. Like, I can deal. with it. And that's just how we start our relationship. It was just like very honest. And it's just

he's never changed. And he's always. And so I know his true intention is much like even if he's like angry or like, you know, yelling or I know what he's trying to hear. You can read between lines. I can read between lines. I know. I know. And I know this is for an intent. And then I, my mind always goes. I know him so well that it's like I know like his. intent with this conversation. I know his intent with raising his voice for this person. I know his intent, you know, for doing something behind the scenes that nobody knows about, you know, like, I know a lot of, like, anyways, there's, there's a lot there, but it amounts to, I guess, if I have to, like, put on one thing, it's like, the people don't get to see, like, how, um, how radically honest he really

is, like, with everybody, like, in, like, business people. It's, it's pretty remarkable. But yeah, so you want Doug too? Or do you want to say? Yeah, fuck yeah. Yeah. He's like, no. Yeah. No, no, for Doug, like, again, like, I've related a lot to Doug.

Just because of being a solopreneur and like kind of like owning your own shit. Like I've always been able to really manage myself really well. And, you know, by proxy to that, like I was able to kind of manage and lead people. But like, I was always like, yeah, whatever, but I'm doing it. And hopefully you do this too and you do it well. And but really, I'm going to handle my business and to that degree. And, you know, Doug's just the kind of personality. Like he just, he's on top of things.

He's doing things constantly. But he's very like calculated with his delivery for, like, again, we kind of called the Zen master for reason because he's kind of like, he'll say the right thing sometimes in the midst of like conflict. and bring us back to like, okay, well, let's get back on track. Like, let's move back on the track and get, and go forward. And he kind of knows how to steer us when the emotions get high. And so I value that a lot, his calmness and his presence that he brings in here. So, and to just, you know, him just being a very, he's also, you know, a very caring person, like very very much so so he thinks a lot about other people so i've noticed that a lot well said

it's awesome well fucking said yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you're gonna be choked up yeah i'm the most likely to try these days yeah oh 100 percent you'll get me if you go so don't do that dude please god man all right i'll start with dog he's uh he's just he's just a good man yeah he's a really i got me dude he's a very good man I remember when I started training him. And I remember meeting his daughter for the first time and realizing that she wasn't his biological daughter. He, but he talked about her and loved her in a way that I would have never guessed. And he's one of the best fathers ever met.

And he is a very, he is a very quiet leader. He does it in such a gentle way. He lets us be knuckleheads. He let us be knuckleheads for a long time. And he gently steers the ship with a lot of wisdom because he knows that it's the only way to steer this ship. So, you know, that's Doug. A lot of wisdom. Justin is a rock.

It's a very solid. He's probably the most solid person I've ever met. Also an incredible father, very humble. he will he doesn't uh he doesn't uh he doesn't toot his own horn ever uh if he hates it when we toot his horn um and i don't think we do it enough uh because i think it makes him uncomfortable so we try not to make him uncomfortable but um just uh just incredible solid integrity and you know Justin's the guy that uh you know if um you know it's a terrible example you know you killed someone but he'd help you bury the body.

That's a terrible example. But I mean, but that's, but that's just, that's just Justin. And he, what he, what he brings that, you know, people love him. The most. The most. And their read is correct. They have a very accurate read on Justin. So if you love him, it's because he's, that's him.

He's a lovable guy, great guy, super, super loyal person. So just solid. I think of Justin. I think of a rock for sure. Adam's the gas of the of the, of the operation. So he's jet fuel and drives a lot of, you know, what happens here. Whether he points to the direction or not, he's the gas behind the whole thing. He's, uh, Adam, you know, also incredibly loyal, incredibly loyal.

like no question. You have to be in the room with Adam when he's negotiating with someone. It's so uncomfortable. And brilliant at the same time. I'm a good closer. I know I'm a good closer. But if I sit in a room with him negotiating,

I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. And it's really cool, really cool to be around. very, very growth-minded and incredibly resilient. So he can come across as like stubborn or whatever, but he is one of the most gross-minded people I know. And he's got such a big heart that, and he never, his charity or how giving he is is something he doesn't ever talk about, that you find out about.

you'll find out about it either through a side conversation or something and you're like you did that um i mean like buying gifts for kids on christmas that need gifts or uh supporting friends you know children to go through school and stuff like he just talk about it um so that's just uh that's adam it's just uh for me to be with these guys i can't even believe i'm here yeah so it's just been it's an incredible blessing so and looking back looking forward i'm like i don't know why or how but I'm just grateful to be here. I think it's such a disadvantage to go last, dude. I'm all emotional.

I wish I would have been first now, dude. He was giving out, so I wasn't so emotional going into this. I'll start with Doug. So we did this, right? So I, and I probably, I talked for a long time. I'm sure Dylan's like, shit, we're going to have to add it all of Adams because Adam went on forever about all of these guys

because I got so much love for all of them. And we're all so different, dude. I think that's the part that still trips me out. is to, you know, we really, we really don't hang a lot outside of here. A lot of people think that, like, we're like, best of buds and we go hang out every week together. We rarely ever do stuff together outside of here, but yet we are so bonded and tight in here. And so it's such a unique special friendship and bond and partnership that we have.

And Doug for sure is, you know, we call him Master Splinter, you know. Ninja Turtle reference, you know. So he's, he is. He's wise. He's unbelievably humble. Only he could work in that position with the three of us. Any other personality would have never have worked with us. He allows us to be ourselves.

And like the guy said, yet still quietly steers. And he's also, I mean, Doug early on was the guy who, because my brain goes at two, three in the morning. I could text him. he's working too. You know, like he just quietly behind the scene manages and handles so much of the things that Sal Justin and I do not like. So an operation does not grow to this size unless you have a man like that that is, and he'll do it. Like he just would put his head down and not, doesn't need to tell anybody what he's doing, doesn't need accolades for it, doesn't talk about it and stuff like that.

but I know the amount of work it takes to manage all the operations of something that runs this big. And I couldn't do it. I could not. There's no way I could do it without him. So I lean on him so much for the just, Sal brought up me being the gas and kind of steering the ship. Like I couldn't do it without navigating with him. It would be impossible. So, and only his personality works with with us.

No other person I would have. He just has this gift to be able to. quietly lead like that. Justin and I go back a really long time. One of my favorite things to share about Justin, the many things, but like one of my favorite is like he, I remember when he used to work for me.

And I didn't I tell anybody like, didn't I remember telling these guys. It's like you don't have to ever tell Justin like he fucked up or he shouldn't have done this. Like he is so critical of himself that you just let him be and he just will go do the work. and he doesn't want credit for it. He doesn't need to be the guy.

He has this, he's unbelievably confident and humble, has an incredibly strong integrity and doesn't need anyone to tell him. And he'll just, I don't need to be the main guy. He can take the jokes of, oh, he's the other guy. But it doesn't work if you don't have a guy that's willing to take the bullets to do all the hard work and not, you give me emotional. Damn it, Roxanne. Sorry. Not sorry. Then you go and I'm going to go.

And then he's going to go. Stop it. I'll gather my stuff. Hold on. Yeah. So that's Justin. If I keep talking about Justin, I'm going to cry my ass off. But that's, I mean, there's a reason why we have a brotherhood, right?

So he goes, him and I go back shit almost 20 years now. So. Sal is most like me and so different than me at the same time. So we, you know, we talk about that we clash. That's because we have very. strong personalities, right? If you listen to the podcast, there's a good chance. If you really like me, you don't like Sal. If you like Sal, you don't like me. We tend to, or there's obviously the fans that love everybody and appreciate the dynamic, but we tend to divide the audience.

It's like, you're either like my style or you like Sal style of whatever. And so we share that that strong, that strong personality. And I love that about it. And so, Something that I'll echo that the guy said that is just understated about Sal, it's like he is, he's the mother of the group. He's truly, he truly is, like, of the entire company. So, like, he, he is the person who will call you if something's going on in your family. And he does that with every single person in here. So he has this huge warm heart. This is also why when I get really defensive, when people think he's like this cocky, arrogant dude.

Oh, man. Yep. shouldn't it last going last you guys got me all would have been me I do

I get really defensive when people think he's this cocky guy and I'm like dude you have no idea he's probably the most humble person and loving

yeah boy that 10 years man yeah there's a he's so talented dude The fact that, you know, what I love and pisses me off at the same time is this guy has the

ability to read something one time and then he could go teach it like a professor. Yeah. Yeah. It's where my dumb ass has to read it four or five times, fuck it up six times saying it, go back and do it. And then maybe I can somewhat present it. Sal can like go through something and like teach it as if he'd been teaching it for 10 years. It is the most crazy gift and to watch it every day.

And he can come to work, have stuff going on with family or a death in the family, stuff like that. And lights go on, cameras hit, and he can turn that side on. It's just, it's so impressive. It doesn't work. We don't, this, this doesn't happen without him. He's, I mean, I always think of all of us like this basketball team or whatever. And like, you know, it's a championship team.

that he's the star player. There's no way it exists. There's no way I could possibly. I can't do it without any of them, but he's definitely that guy. And he carries it. He takes that in a way, in such a humble way. Like he doesn't want the attention.

If all of us, he's the most private, wants the least amount of fame and attention from it. Yet he carries the most amount of it because we send him out to talk on all the podcasts, to stand up on front of the stages, is to write the book to be that guy. And so, you know, nobody could be better at doing that. And he does it with humility, grace, talent.

So, so cool to see. But, yeah, obviously, I love all these guys. I'm like, I want to clap. I want to cry. So mad you got it. No, that was so special. It's so, so special. You guys are absolutely extraordinary.

Doug, I know you don't, do you have a mic? I have a mic. I don't have a camera. Fortunately, I do not have a camera. Do you want to be Oz and just speaking? I can speak from the Great Beyond. I'm so glad you make Doug go last. Oh, yeah.

I thought I was going to get out of this. But the good news is I do not have a camera. He's a great odds. It's so funny because when we recorded for the 10-year anniversary video, I went last, I think. and I did my thing and then afterwards Danny who was filming this she said you know

you guys said so many the same thing so you know I'm just really following up with what everybody else said and a lot of it's like ditto you know that that'd be my answer but I mean I'll go around

quickly and potentially say something a little fresh from my perspective Justin in particular again I relate to Justin a lot and again Justin is a super solid guy, but one of the things I appreciate about him a lot is his creativity.

He's artistic and a bit of a nerd, you know, but that's good. I love it, you know, because I was always kind of a nerdy, artistic kid, and I can really relate. He's a musician. He has a great eye for design. He's funny. He has a good, great sense of humor. And so certainly, you know, Justin, even though he was quiet and I think it took a, took me a while to get to know him. The more I know him, the more I say, boy, I really relate to this guy. You know, he's, he feels like definitely, we have that bond together. Sal, I mean, it's been said more than once here, is Sal, he does have that fatherly. You called him mother, but I call him.

Because it's so sweet. That's why it's less fatherly. It's less domineering, alpha. It's very feminine. He's got a very, you know, call me, hey, you okay? I know you were kind of coughing earlier today. Make sure you take this and take that.

That's motherly to me, bro. That's not fatherly. Fatherly is more like, get up. It'll be all right. Yeah. No, so I really admire that. And it's something I actually aspire to have more of is this like, empathetic side.

So I knew Sal, obviously, because I hired him as my personal trainer. And I started working with this guy. And I said, this guy is, what's he doing in the small studio in Los Gatos, right? This guy needs to get his voice out there. I mean, when I came into his private studio the first time, his guy he's dressed in his uniform, you know, with his clipboard, very professional.

And then as time went on, I really got to see, obviously, his vast amount of knowledge and his ability to communicate and remember jokes. The dude can come off with so many jokes that, How do you remember that stuff, you know? But, yeah, just really multifaceted in his abilities. So Adam, I'm going to kind of echo what Justin said.

And I admire it as much as it can be frustrating. I so admire the ability to be ultra direct and to tell people exactly what you're thinking. Because I'm one to kind of like, you know, be the diplomat. Matt, yet get away with it. I mean, because he's so honest, people's like, well, shit. I mean, he said it. And it's like, it must be true because he's just such an honest personality in way of approaching things.

And so, I mean, I so admire that. And it's something I've actually been working to get better at. And then this company, his ability to oversee everything as he is our CEO. And he is rightfully so. I don't think any of the rest of us want that title. He has his fingers on the pulse of everything, everything. And sometimes it's almost annoying because he'll bring up something and it's like, oh, shit, I forgot about that. How did you remember that?

And it's very impressive. But I would, you know, want nobody else other than him to do that. It's amazing. I don't even going to clap. Okay, well, I'm going to wrap this song. No more crying shit, dude. Enough of the emotional stuff. Come on.

That's a huge one for me, by the way. How would you feel if one of them die? And which one first? Wait, when's the actual celebration of? So it's December 7th? I think the 5th. Yeah, the 5th is when the video will be up, when we'll play it for our staff and everything like that.

So every year we have a big Christmas party, which is also like our annual party. Yeah. Fifth, Doug, is that one is? Yeah, that's correct. And because it's our 10 year, we're, I know our team is working on like a really cool coffee table book

of all the photos and everything for 10 years. They, all the editing team pulled each of us aside and we've created some content about each other, but no one has spoke that. So maybe you got some of those tears out that well because I'm sure it would have been flowing. I'm still going to try. So on the spot, that was even harder, you know, with them.

Because it was easy with them not in the room. I think them being in the room brought more emotion. and stuff because I didn't cry. I said all that stuff before, but you pulled the emotion. I cried on video. Did you? Oh, you did? Of course he did.

Of course the mother did. Of course the mother did. You know what I'm saying? I love it. Well, 10 years. So here's my two final questions. So the first one is, can we fucking do this again? Because I have so many more questions.

Sure. You guys are the shit. Thank you. Truly. So special to be here with all of you. the other question, the final question, is 10 years from now, where do you hope to be? Where do you, yeah? Yeah.

I think right now the mission is the trainer side. I think there is a possibility we can have 50 to 100 badass personal trainers underneath us. And we all, one of the things also that we had in common, we didn't touch on this, is we all came from 24th Fitness. Oh. And we all were a part of like, early days and as much as we'd rather be here and love what we do, there was, there was like an energy about like that company when we were there that was really fun, that we all share stories about the good old days of some of the stuff we used to do. And so I think that we all share a

similar vision of implementing some of that stuff like within our own company. And we just never had the size to make sense to do that. And we're going to be there in the next year. And so I think 10 years from now, you know, 50 to 80 employees and a really cool, like, event. Like, I think that'll be, I mean, that's kind of what I see. I think, we all think at one point, I don't know if it's in 10 years or not, that the podcast is a little less volume or frequency, I should say. You know, I think we'll still do this. We'll do this.

It'll be like three episodes. Yeah, I think we all agree we'd do this until we're 80. But I think, I think to do everything else. that we do plus also create five I mean you know you understand what it takes to come up and do episode like we we pump out five a week on top of everything else we do and so I think that in a perfect sweet spot it would be like three two or three and then and then really grow the in person side so that's what I see no 100% I'd love to have the first like national coaching brand or company there is no really representative company out there for what it could be like yeah I'd like that

I'd like the standard. Love to create the standard. We love being mavericks. Yes. You are. Yeah. It's a mind-put movement for sure. I hope.

Yeah. It's what we want. I mean, yeah, I'm stating it for sure. Let's go. Let's see. We'll be back on in 10 years and see if it's. Fuck yeah. We'll see.

We'll have you before. We'll do that before. We'll do before that. Yes. For sure. Justin? Yeah. I mean, I'm excited about the trainer side just as much as there.

And then, you know, we'd flirt. around with the idea of like having a gym physically. I want a gym. But the thing that's cool is like we get into something and we figure out what's working. And then what's working. It's all kind of remote. It's very small right now. But like I can't help but then see this grow.

And like where's this like times 10? And I do potentially see it maybe having a few locations that are actually physical. So who knows? I mean, obviously, that's something we joked about at the beginning. It's like, you might as well own a bar at that point. Yeah. It's not something that was on our radar. Yeah.

It's not. Maybe it's a combined. But it'd be fun to show up. Or at least a big-ass headquarters somewhere. Yeah. That would be fun. And just a whole fleet of trainers that we get to just talk to, pump up, motivate, to teach, and just send them off to the world to do the good deeds.

Well, I really believe because you guys were such legit. Jit contributors. Like you were truly making a fucking difference in life in this world that you are supported from the highest, from the highest and certainly over here. So thank you so much for making time. This has been so deeply special and truly an honor to be with all of you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Estatic, nine months of phased expert exercise programming

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